A treatise of liturgies, power of the keyes, and of matter of the visible church. In answer to the reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball. By Thomas Shephard, sometimes fellow of Emanuel-Colledge in Cambridge, and late pastour of Cambridge in New-England.
         Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649.
      
       
         
           1652
        
      
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             A treatise of liturgies, power of the keyes, and of matter of the visible church. In answer to the reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball. By Thomas Shephard, sometimes fellow of Emanuel-Colledge in Cambridge, and late pastour of Cambridge in New-England.
             Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649.
          
           [2], 211, [1] p.
           
             Printed by E. Cotes for Andrew Crooke, and are to be sold at the Green Dragon in Pauls Church-yard,
             London, :
             1653. [i.e. 1652]
          
           
             A reply to "A short treatise containing all the principall grounds of Christian religion", an expanded version of "A shorte catechisme" by John Ball.
             Thomason received his copy 20 November 1652.
             Annotation on Thomason copy: "Nouemb 20 1652"; the '3' in the imprint has been crossed out.
             Reproduction of the original in the British Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
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           Ball, John, 1585-1640. -- Shorte catechisme.
           Religion -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
        
      
    
     
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           A
           TREATISE
           OF
           LITURGIES
           ,
           POWER
           of
           the
           KEYES
           ,
           And
           of
           matter
           of
           the
           Visible
           CHURCH
           .
           IN
           ANSWER
           To
           the
           Reverend
           Servant
           of
           Christ
           ,
           Mr.
           
             John
             Ball.
          
           By
           THOMAS
           SHEPHARD
           ,
           sometimes
           fellow
           of
           Emanuel-Colledge
           in
           Cambridge
           ,
           and
           late
           Pastour
           of
           Cambridge
           in
           New-England
           .
        
         
           Veritas
           nihil
           erubescit
           praeterquam
           abscondi
           ,
        
         
           Turtul
           .
        
         
           Sua
           silentia
           amat
           Spiritus
           per
           quae
           nobis
           illabitur
           ,
           seque
           insinuat
           cupidis
           non
           gloriae
           sed
           cognoscendae
           veritatis
           ,
        
         
           Melanct.
           
        
         
           Let
           the
           blessing
           come
           upon
           the
           head
           of
           Joseph
           ,
           and
           upon
           the
           top
           of
           the
           head
           of
           him
           that
           was
           separated
           from
           his
           Brethren
           ,
        
         
           Deut.
           33.
           16.
           
        
         
           LONDON
           ,
           Printed
           by
           
             E.
             Cotes
          
           for
           
             Andrew
             Crooke
          
           ,
           and
           are
           to
           be
           sold
           at
           the
           Green
           Dragon
           in
           Pauls
           Church-yard
           ,
           1653.
           
        
      
       
         
         
         
           The
           Preface
           to
           the
           Reader
           .
        
         
           IT
           was
           the
           profession
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           before
           Pilate
           ,
           when
           he
           questioned
           with
           him
           about
           his
           Kingdome
           ,
           
             John
             18.
             37.
          
           
           That
           for
           this
           cause
           he
           was
           born
           and
           came
           into
           the
           world
           ,
           to
           beare
           witnesse
           of
           the
           truth
           .
           Many
           truths
           about
           the
           spirituall
           Kingdom
           of
           Christ
           hath
           he
           imparted
           to
           us
           ,
           if
           therfore
           we
           be
           born
           into
           the
           world
           ,
           or
           sent
           into
           this
           Wildernesse
           to
           beare
           witnesse
           to
           his
           truth
           ,
           it
           is
           unto
           us
           reward
           sufficient
           ,
           that
           we
           should
           be
           witnesses
           thereunto
           ,
           even
           to
           the
           utmost
           parts
           of
           the
           Earth
           .
           Wee
           confesse
           wee
           have
           been
           too
           slow
           in
           this
           service
           of
           Christ
           ,
           not
           having
           to
           this
           day
           set
           forth
           an
           unanimous
           Confession
           of
           that
           Form
           of
           wholsome
           words
           which
           is
           Preached
           ,
           received
           ,
           and
           professed
           in
           these
           Churches
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           ;
           and
           which
           we
           are
           not
           unmindfull
           of
           ,
           though
           our
           distances
           ,
           and
           other
           difficulties
           may
           delay
           the
           opportunity
           .
           But
           this
           in
           the
           meane
           time
           we
           professe
           in
           generall
           ,
           That
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           wee
           know
           )
           there
           is
           the
           same
           blessed
           Spirit
           of
           Truth
           breathing
           in
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Country
           ;
           the
           same
           Faith
           embraced
           and
           professed
           in
           the
           Churches
           ,
           which
           is
           generally
           received
           as
           the
           Orthodox
           Doctrine
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           in
           the
           best
           reformed
           Churches
           ,
           and
           particularly
           by
           our
           godly
           learned
           Brethren
           of
           England
           and
           Scotland
           .
           And
           though
           errours
           have
           sprung
           up
           among
           us
           ,
           and
           some
           are
           gone
           out
           from
           us
           ,
           that
           we
           feare
           were
           not
           of
           us
           ,
           yet
           
           wee
           have
           borne
           witnesse
           against
           them
           ,
           and
           by
           the
           blessing
           of
           God
           ,
           by
           the
           breath
           of
           Christ
           in
           the
           mouths
           of
           his
           servants
           they
           have
           been
           blasted
           .
           Neither
           doe
           we
           understand
           that
           these
           Churches
           are
           accused
           of
           any
           errours
           about
           the
           saving
           truths
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           thought
           our selves
           not
           so
           much
           called
           of
           God
           to
           such
           a
           Confession
           at
           present
           ,
           as
           to
           cleare
           up
           to
           the
           world
           those
           Truths
           we
           professe
           about
           the
           kingdome
           and
           government
           of
           Christ
           in
           his
           Churches
           ,
           which
           is
           the
           great
           worke
           of
           this
           age
           ,
           and
           of
           this
           nick
           of
           time
           .
           And
           yet
           here
           also
           we
           feare
           that
           we
           have
           been
           too
           slack
           ;
           for
           though
           it
           bee
           said
           ,
           
             VVee
             are
             the
             Volunteers
             ,
             such
             as
             cry
             up
             this
             way
             ,
             &c.
          
           and
           so
           it
           seemes
           wee
           are
           apprehended
           to
           bee
           one
           cause
           of
           these
           present
           differences
           :
           yet
           if
           things
           be
           well
           weighed
           ,
           we
           may
           seem
           rather
           to
           bee
           farre
           behinde
           in
           the
           duty
           that
           lyes
           upon
           us
           .
           Indeed
           some
           briefe
           Answers
           sent
           over
           to
           some
           particular
           persons
           ,
           to
           satisfie
           Brethren
           what
           our
           practise
           is
           ,
           (
           with
           some
           briefe
           touch
           of
           our
           reasons
           )
           rather
           then
           to
           discusse
           those
           points
           ,
           have
           been
           printed
           by
           some
           without
           our
           knowledge
           ,
           or
           assent
           ,
           upon
           what
           grounds
           they
           best
           know
           .
           And
           some
           short
           Treatises
           by
           some
           reverend
           Brethren
           have
           been
           published
           to
           declare
           their
           affectionate
           desires
           of
           the
           unanimous
           endevours
           of
           all
           our
           deare
           Brethren
           ,
           for
           a
           generall
           and
           holy
           Reformation
           :
           But
           what
           hath
           been
           said
           or
           done
           that
           either
           may
           justly
           offend
           the
           minds
           of
           the
           godly
           ,
           provoke
           their
           spirits
           ,
           disunite
           their
           affections
           ,
           or
           hinder
           a
           godly
           Reformation
           ?
           Yea
           ,
           wee
           have
           been
           too
           slow
           to
           cleare
           our
           Doctrine
           and
           practise
           from
           the
           many
           objections
           ,
           harsh
           interpretations
           ,
           and
           manifold
           criminations
           cast
           upon
           the
           same
           ,
           wherein
           wee
           feare
           our
           lothnesse
           to
           intermeddle
           in
           these
           Controversies
           for
           feare
           of
           making
           the
           breach
           wider
           amongst
           Brethren
           ;
           and
           our
           desire
           rather
           to
           attend
           what
           light
           we
           might
           receive
           from
           others
           in
           these
           points
           wherein
           wee
           professe
           our selves
           seekers
           after
           the
           truth
           ,
           have
           made
           us
           guilty
           of
           neglect
           in
           this
           our
           duty
           .
           But
           now
           we
           see
           our selves
           pressed
           hereto
           ,
           by
           a
           necessity
           of
           justifying
           our
           wayes
           against
           
           the
           many
           aspersions
           cast
           upon
           them
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           against
           the
           Reasons
           used
           against
           them
           ,
           for
           wee
           perceive
           by
           the
           first
           Letter
           of
           our
           Brethren
           ,
           how
           the
           with-drawing
           of
           Christians
           from
           the
           Liturgy
           was
           imputed
           to
           us
           ,
           and
           by
           this
           Reply
           both
           in
           the
           Epistle
           and
           divers
           passages
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           but
           see
           what
           apprehensions
           are
           raised
           of
           us
           ;
           yea
           ,
           many
           are
           apt
           to
           think
           ,
           that
           if
           we
           had
           said
           nothing
           ,
           yet
           our
           very
           act
           in
           forsaking
           the
           Churches
           of
           God
           in
           our
           deare
           native
           Country
           ,
           and
           the
           Cause
           of
           Christ
           there
           ,
           together
           with
           the
           practise
           of
           these
           Churches
           thought
           to
           bee
           so
           different
           from
           the
           reformed
           Churches
           ,
           have
           been
           ,
           not
           onely
           a
           great
           weakening
           to
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Godly
           ,
           (
           that
           have
           stood
           by
           the
           Cause
           of
           Christ
           )
           but
           also
           have
           caused
           great
           disturbance
           to
           the
           Reformation
           in
           hand
           :
           To
           which
           much
           might
           be
           said
           ,
           but
           that
           wee
           should
           exceed
           the
           bounds
           of
           an
           Epistle
           .
           Yet
           let
           us
           intreat
           all
           the
           Godly
           wise
           ,
           to
           consider
           and
           look
           back
           upon
           the
           season
           of
           this
           great
           enterprise
           ,
           undertaken
           by
           us
           ,
           and
           the
           manner
           of
           our
           proceedings
           in
           it
           ,
           with
           the
           admirable
           workings
           of
           Gods
           Providence
           first
           and
           last
           about
           it
           ;
           and
           we
           think
           (
           though
           we
           were
           silent
           )
           they
           may
           easily
           satisfie
           themselves
           ,
           whether
           this
           was
           of
           God
           or
           men
           ,
           a
           sinfull
           neglect
           of
           the
           Cause
           of
           Christ
           ,
           or
           a
           manifest
           attestation
           to
           the
           truth
           ,
           by
           open
           profession
           against
           Corruptions
           of
           Worship
           in
           use
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           necessity
           of
           reformation
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           and
           that
           confirmed
           by
           no
           small
           degree
           of
           sufferings
           for
           the
           same
           .
           For
           was
           it
           not
           a
           time
           when
           humane
           Worship
           and
           inventions
           were
           growne
           to
           such
           an
           intolerable
           height
           ,
           that
           the
           consciences
           of
           Gods
           saints
           and
           servants
           inlightened
           in
           the
           truth
           )
           could
           no
           longer
           bear
           them
           ?
           was
           not
           the
           power
           of
           the
           tyrannicall
           Prelates
           so
           great
           ,
           that
           like
           a
           strong
           Current
           carryed
           all
           down
           streame
           before
           it
           ,
           what
           ever
           was
           from
           the
           law
           ,
           or
           otherwise
           set
           in
           their
           way
           ?
           Did
           not
           the
           hearts
           of
           men
           generally
           faile
           them
           ?
           Where
           was
           the
           people
           to
           bee
           found
           that
           would
           cleave
           to
           their
           godly
           Ministers
           in
           their
           sufferings
           ,
           but
           rather
           thought
           it
           their
           discretion
           ,
           to
           provide
           for
           their
           owne
           quiet
           and
           safety
           ?
           Yea
           ,
           when
           
           some
           freely
           in
           zeale
           of
           the
           Truth
           preached
           or
           professed
           against
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           times
           ,
           did
           not
           some
           take
           offence
           at
           it
           ,
           judge
           it
           rashnesse
           ,
           and
           to
           bee
           against
           all
           rules
           of
           discretion
           ,
           who
           since
           are
           ready
           to
           censure
           us
           for
           deserting
           the
           Cause
           ?
           Many
           then
           thought
           ,
           it
           is
           an
           evill
           time
           ,
           the
           prudent
           shall
           hold
           their
           peace
           ,
           and
           might
           wee
           not
           say
           ,
           this
           is
           not
           our
           resting
           place
           ?
           And
           what
           would
           men
           have
           us
           doe
           in
           such
           a
           case
           ?
           Must
           wee
           study
           some
           distinctions
           to
           salve
           our
           Consciences
           in
           complying
           with
           so
           manifold
           corruptions
           in
           Gods
           Worship
           ?
           or
           should
           wee
           live
           without
           Gods
           ordinances
           ,
           because
           wee
           could
           not
           partake
           in
           the
           corrupt
           administration
           thereof
           ?
           or
           content
           our selves
           to
           live
           without
           those
           ordinances
           of
           Gods
           Worship
           and
           Communion
           of
           Saints
           which
           hee
           called
           us
           unto
           ,
           and
           our
           soules
           breathed
           after
           ?
           or
           should
           wee
           forsake
           the
           publique
           Assemblies
           ,
           and
           joyne
           together
           in
           private
           separated
           Churches
           ?
           how
           unsufferable
           it
           would
           then
           have
           been
           ,
           the
           great
           offence
           that
           now
           is
           taken
           at
           it
           ,
           is
           a
           full
           evidence
           .
           And
           if
           in
           Cities
           ,
           or
           some
           such
           great
           Townes
           that
           might
           have
           been
           done
           ,
           yet
           how
           was
           it
           possible
           for
           so
           many
           scattered
           Christians
           all
           over
           the
           Countrey
           ?
           It
           is
           true
           ,
           we
           might
           have
           suffered
           ,
           if
           wee
           had
           sought
           it
           ,
           wee
           might
           easily
           have
           found
           the
           way
           to
           have
           filled
           the
           Prisons
           ,
           and
           some
           had
           their
           share
           therein
           .
           But
           whether
           wee
           were
           called
           thereunto
           ,
           when
           a
           wide
           doore
           was
           set
           open
           of
           liberty
           otherwise
           ;
           and
           our
           witnesse
           to
           the
           truth
           ,
           (
           through
           the
           malignant
           policy
           of
           those
           times
           )
           could
           not
           bee
           open
           before
           the
           world
           ,
           but
           rather
           smothered
           up
           in
           close
           prisons
           or
           some
           such
           wayes
           ,
           together
           with
           our selves
           ,
           wee
           leave
           to
           bee
           considered
           .
           Wee
           cannot
           see
           but
           the
           rule
           of
           Christ
           to
           his
           Apostles
           and
           Saints
           ,
           and
           the
           practise
           of
           Gods
           Saints
           in
           all
           ages
           ,
           may
           allow
           us
           this
           liberty
           as
           well
           as
           others
           ,
           to
           fly
           into
           the
           Wildernesse
           from
           the
           face
           of
           the
           Dragon
           .
           But
           if
           it
           had
           been
           so
           ,
           that
           the
           Godly
           Ministers
           and
           Christians
           that
           fled
           to
           New-England
           ,
           were
           the
           most
           timorous
           and
           faint
           hearted
           of
           all
           their
           Brethren
           ,
           that
           stayed
           behinde
           ,
           and
           that
           
           those
           sufferings
           were
           nothing
           in
           comparison
           of
           their
           Brethrens
           (
           for
           why
           should
           any
           b●ast
           of
           sufferings
           ?
           )
           yet
           who
           doth
           not
           know
           that
           the
           Spirit
           who
           gives
           various
           gifts
           ,
           and
           all
           to
           profit
           withall
           ,
           in
           such
           times
           doth
           single
           out
           every
           one
           to
           such
           worke
           ,
           as
           hee
           in
           wisdome
           intends
           to
           call
           them
           unto
           ?
           And
           whom
           the
           Lord
           will
           honour
           by
           suffering
           for
           his
           Cause
           ,
           by
           imprisonment
           ,
           &c.
           hee
           gives
           them
           spirits
           suitable
           thereto
           :
           whom
           the
           Lord
           will
           reserve
           for
           other
           service
           ,
           or
           imploy
           in
           other
           places
           ,
           hie
           inclines
           their
           hearts
           rather
           to
           fly
           ,
           giving
           them
           an
           heart
           suitable
           to
           such
           a
           condition
           .
           It
           is
           a
           case
           of
           Conscience
           frequently
           put
           ,
           and
           oft
           resolved
           by
           holy
           
             Bradford
             ,
             Peter
             Martyr
             ,
             Philpot
             ,
          
           and
           others
           ,
           in
           Queene
           Maries
           bloody
           dayes
           ,
           viz.
           Whether
           it
           was
           lawfull
           to
           flee
           out
           of
           the
           Land
           :
           To
           which
           their
           answer
           was
           ,
           that
           if
           God
           gave
           a
           spirit
           of
           courage
           and
           willingnesse
           to
           glorifie
           him
           by
           sufferings
           ,
           they
           should
           stay
           ;
           but
           if
           they
           found
           not
           such
           a
           spirit
           they
           might
           lawfully
           fly
           ,
           yea
           ,
           they
           advised
           them
           thereunto
           .
           Those
           Servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           though
           full
           of
           the
           spirit
           of
           glory
           ,
           and
           of
           Christ
           to
           outface
           the
           greatest
           persecuters
           in
           profession
           of
           the
           Truth
           ,
           unto
           the
           death
           ,
           yet
           did
           not
           complaine
           of
           the
           cowardize
           of
           such
           as
           fled
           ,
           because
           they
           deserted
           them
           and
           the
           Cause
           ,
           but
           rather
           advised
           divers
           so
           to
           doe
           ,
           and
           rejoyced
           when
           God
           gave
           liberty
           to
           their
           brethren
           to
           escape
           with
           their
           lives
           to
           the
           places
           of
           liberty
           ,
           to
           serve
           the
           Lord
           according
           to
           his
           Word
           .
           Neither
           were
           those
           faithfull
           Saints
           and
           servants
           of
           God
           uselesse
           and
           unprofitable
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           that
           fled
           from
           the
           bloody
           Prelates
           .
           The
           infinite
           and
           onely
           wise
           God
           hath
           many
           workes
           to
           doe
           in
           the
           World
           ,
           and
           hee
           doth
           by
           his
           singular
           Providence
           give
           gifts
           to
           his
           Servants
           ,
           and
           disposeth
           them
           to
           his
           Worke
           as
           seemeth
           best
           to
           himselfe
           .
           If
           the
           Lord
           will
           have
           some
           to
           beare
           witnesse
           by
           imprisonments
           ,
           dismembring
           ,
           &c.
           wee
           honour
           them
           therein
           ;
           if
           hee
           will
           have
           others
           instrumentall
           to
           promote
           reformation
           in
           England
           ,
           wee
           honor
           them
           ,
           and
           rejoyce
           in
           their
           holy
           endeavours
           ,
           praying
           for
           a
           
           blessing
           upon
           themselves
           and
           labours
           .
           And
           what
           if
           God
           will
           have
           his
           Church
           and
           the
           Kingdome
           of
           Christ
           goe
           up
           also
           in
           these
           remote
           parts
           of
           the
           world
           ,
           that
           his
           Name
           may
           bee
           known
           to
           the
           Heathen
           ,
           or
           whatsoever
           other
           end
           hee
           hath
           ,
           and
           to
           this
           end
           will
           send
           forth
           a
           company
           of
           weake-hearted
           Christians
           ,
           which
           dare
           not
           stay
           at
           home
           to
           suffer
           ,
           why
           should
           wee
           not
           let
           the
           Lord
           alone
           ,
           and
           rejoyce
           that
           Christ
           is
           preached
           howsoever
           ,
           and
           wheresoever
           ?
           And
           who
           can
           say
           that
           this
           work
           was
           not
           undertaken
           and
           carryed
           on
           with
           sincere
           and
           right
           ends
           ,
           and
           in
           an
           holy
           serious
           manner
           ,
           by
           the
           chiefe
           and
           the
           body
           of
           such
           as
           undertooke
           the
           same
           ?
           The
           Lord
           knows
           whether
           the
           sincere
           desires
           of
           worshipping
           himselfe
           according
           to
           his
           will
           ,
           of
           promoting
           and
           propagating
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           was
           not
           in
           the
           hearts
           of
           very
           many
           in
           this
           enterprise
           ;
           and
           hee
           that
           seeth
           in
           secret
           ,
           and
           rewardeth
           openly
           ,
           knows
           what
           prayers
           and
           teares
           have
           been
           poured
           out
           to
           God
           by
           many
           alone
           ,
           and
           in
           dayes
           of
           fasting
           and
           prayer
           of
           Gods
           servants
           together
           ,
           for
           his
           counsell
           ,
           direction
           ,
           assistance
           ,
           blessing
           in
           this
           worke
           :
           How
           many
           longings
           and
           pantings
           of
           heart
           have
           been
           in
           many
           after
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           ,
           to
           see
           his
           goings
           in
           his
           Sanctuary
           ,
           as
           the
           one
           thing
           their
           soules
           desired
           and
           requested
           of
           God
           ,
           that
           they
           might
           dwell
           in
           his
           house
           for
           ever
           ;
           the
           fruit
           of
           which
           prayers
           and
           desires
           this
           liberty
           of
           New-England
           hath
           been
           taken
           to
           bee
           ,
           and
           thankfully
           received
           from
           God.
           Yea
           ,
           how
           many
           serious
           consultations
           with
           one
           another
           ,
           and
           with
           the
           faithfull
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           other
           eminent
           servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           have
           been
           taken
           about
           this
           worke
           ,
           is
           not
           unknowne
           to
           some
           ;
           which
           cleares
           us
           from
           any
           rash
           heady
           rushing
           into
           this
           place
           ,
           out
           of
           discontent
           ,
           as
           many
           are
           ready
           to
           conceive
           .
           Wee
           will
           here
           say
           nothing
           of
           the
           persons
           whose
           hearts
           the
           Lord
           stirred
           up
           in
           this
           businesse
           ;
           surely
           all
           were
           not
           rash
           ,
           weake-spirited
           ,
           inconsiderate
           of
           what
           they
           left
           behinde
           ,
           or
           of
           what
           it
           was
           to
           goe
           into
           a
           Wildernesse
           .
           But
           if
           it
           were
           well
           knowne
           and
           considered
           ,
           or
           if
           wee
           were
           able
           to
           expresse
           and
           recount
           the
           singular
           workings
           of
           
           divine
           Providence
           ,
           for
           the
           bringing
           on
           of
           this
           Worke
           ,
           to
           what
           it
           is
           come
           unto
           ,
           it
           would
           stop
           the
           mouths
           of
           all
           that
           have
           not
           an
           heart
           to
           accuse
           and
           blaspheme
           the
           goodnesse
           of
           God
           in
           his
           glorious
           workes
           :
           whatever
           many
           may
           say
           or
           think
           ,
           wee
           beleeve
           after-times
           will
           admire
           and
           adore
           the
           Lord
           herein
           ,
           when
           all
           his
           holy
           ends
           ,
           and
           the
           wayes
           he
           hath
           used
           to
           bring
           them
           about
           shall
           appeare
           .
           Look
           from
           one
           end
           of
           the
           heaven
           to
           another
           ,
           whether
           the
           Lord
           hath
           assayed
           to
           do
           such
           a
           Worke
           as
           this
           in
           any
           Nation
           ,
           so
           to
           carry
           out
           a
           people
           of
           his
           owne
           from
           so
           flourishing
           a
           State
           ,
           to
           a
           wildernesse
           so
           far
           distant
           ,
           for
           such
           ends
           ,
           and
           for
           such
           a
           worke
           :
           Yea
           ,
           and
           in
           few
           yeares
           hath
           done
           for
           them
           ,
           as
           hee
           hath
           here
           done
           for
           his
           poore
           despised
           people
           .
           When
           wee
           looke
           back
           and
           consider
           what
           a
           strange
           poise
           of
           spirit
           the
           Lord
           hath
           laid
           upon
           many
           of
           our
           hearts
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           but
           wonder
           at
           our selves
           ,
           that
           so
           many
           ,
           and
           some
           so
           weak
           and
           tender
           ,
           with
           such
           cheerfulnesse
           and
           constant
           resolutions
           against
           so
           many
           perswasions
           of
           friends
           ,
           discouragements
           from
           the
           ill
           report
           of
           this
           Countrey
           ,
           the
           straits
           ,
           wants
           ;
           and
           tryalls
           of
           Gods
           people
           in
           it
           ,
           &c.
           yet
           should
           leave
           our
           accommodations
           and
           comforts
           ,
           should
           forsake
           our
           dearest
           relations
           ,
           Parents
           ,
           brethren
           ,
           Sisters
           ,
           Christian
           friends
           ,
           and
           acquaintances
           ,
           overlooke
           all
           the
           dangers
           and
           difficulties
           of
           the
           vast
           Seas
           ,
           the
           thought
           whereof
           was
           a
           terrour
           to
           many
           ,
           and
           all
           this
           to
           go
           to
           a
           Wildernesse
           ,
           where
           wee
           could
           forecast
           nothing
           but
           care
           and
           temptations
           ,
           onely
           in
           hopes
           of
           enjoying
           Christ
           in
           his
           Ordinances
           ,
           in
           the
           fellowship
           of
           his
           people
           ;
           was
           this
           from
           a
           stupid
           senslesnesse
           or
           desperate
           carelesnesse
           what
           became
           of
           us
           or
           ours
           ?
           or
           want
           of
           naturall
           affections
           to
           our
           deare
           Countrey
           ,
           or
           nearest
           relations
           ?
           No
           surely
           ,
           with
           what
           bowells
           of
           compassion
           to
           our
           deare
           Countrey
           ;
           with
           what
           heart-breaking
           affections
           ,
           to
           our
           deare
           relations
           ,
           and
           Christian
           friends
           many
           of
           us
           at
           least
           came
           away
           ,
           the
           Lord
           is
           witnesse
           .
           What
           shall
           we
           say
           of
           the
           singular
           Providence
           of
           God
           bringing
           so
           many
           Ship-loads
           of
           
           his
           people
           ,
           through
           so
           many
           dangers
           ,
           as
           upon
           Eagles
           wings
           ,
           with
           so
           much
           safety
           from
           yeare
           to
           yeare
           ?
           The
           fatherly
           ●are
           of
           our
           God
           in
           feeding
           and
           cloathing
           so
           many
           in
           a
           Wildernesse
           ,
           giving
           such
           healthfulnesse
           and
           great
           increase
           of
           posterity
           ?
           what
           shall
           wee
           say
           of
           the
           Worke
           it selfe
           of
           the
           kingdome
           of
           Christ
           ?
           and
           the
           form
           of
           a
           Common-wealth
           erected
           in
           a
           Wildernesse
           ,
           and
           in
           so
           few
           yeares
           brought
           to
           that
           state
           ,
           that
           scarce
           the
           like
           can
           bee
           seen
           in
           any
           of
           our
           English
           Colonies
           in
           the
           richest
           places
           of
           this
           America
           ,
           after
           many
           more
           years
           standing
           ?
           That
           the
           Lord
           hath
           carryed
           the
           spirits
           of
           so
           many
           of
           his
           people
           through
           all
           their
           toylsome
           labour
           ,
           wants
           ,
           difficulties
           ,
           losses
           ,
           &c.
           with
           such
           a
           measure
           of
           chearfulnesse
           and
           contentation
           ?
           But
           above
           all
           wee
           must
           acknowledge
           the
           singular
           pity
           and
           mercies
           of
           our
           God
           ,
           that
           hath
           done
           all
           this
           and
           much
           more
           for
           a
           people
           so
           unworthy
           ,
           so
           sinfull
           ,
           that
           by
           murmurings
           of
           many
           ,
           unfaithfulnesse
           in
           promises
           ,
           oppressions
           ,
           and
           other
           evils
           which
           are
           found
           among
           us
           ,
           have
           so
           dishonoured
           his
           Majesty
           ,
           exposed
           his
           worke
           here
           to
           much
           scandall
           and
           obloquie
           ,
           for
           which
           wee
           have
           cause
           for
           ever
           to
           bee
           ashamed
           ,
           that
           the
           Lord
           should
           yet
           owne
           us
           ,
           and
           rather
           correct
           us
           in
           mercy
           ,
           then
           cast
           us
           off
           in
           displeasure
           ,
           and
           scatter
           us
           in
           this
           Wildernesse
           ,
           which
           gives
           us
           cause
           with
           
             Mich.
             7.
          
           to
           say
           ,
           
             Who
             is
             a
             God
             like
             our
             God
             ,
             that
             pardoneth
             iniquities
             ,
             and
             passeth
             by
             the
             transgressions
             of
             the
             remnant
             of
             his
             heritage
             ;
             even
             because
             he
             delighteth
             in
             mercy
             ?
          
           Though
           we
           be
           a
           people
           of
           many
           weaknesses
           and
           wants
           ,
           yet
           wee
           acknowledge
           our
           God
           to
           have
           been
           to
           us
           a
           God
           of
           many
           mercies
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           that
           sweet
           peace
           which
           he
           hath
           taken
           away
           from
           so
           many
           Nations
           ,
           yet
           continuing
           the
           same
           to
           us
           ;
           in
           respect
           also
           of
           that
           liberty
           wee
           have
           in
           Gods
           house
           ,
           the
           blessed
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           the
           sweet
           unity
           and
           communion
           of
           Gods
           Churches
           and
           Ministers
           ,
           increase
           and
           multiplication
           of
           Churches
           ,
           Christian
           government
           in
           the
           Common-wealth
           ,
           and
           many
           other
           mercies
           wee
           enjoy
           ,
           but
           especially
           the
           gracious
           presence
           
           of
           Christ
           to
           many
           of
           our
           soules
           in
           all
           these
           .
           But
           wee
           will
           not
           insist
           much
           upon
           this
           subject
           ,
           being
           perswaded
           it
           is
           in
           the
           consciences
           and
           hearts
           of
           many
           of
           our
           dear
           Countrey-men
           to
           thinke
           that
           we
           should
           be
           an
           object
           of
           love
           and
           tendernesse
           to
           that
           State
           and
           people
           ,
           by
           whose
           Laws
           and
           unkind
           usages
           we
           were
           driven
           out
           into
           a
           wildernesse
           ,
           rather
           then
           to
           bee
           judged
           as
           desertors
           of
           our
           Brethren
           ,
           and
           the
           Cause
           of
           Christ
           in
           hand
           :
           with
           whom
           (
           excuse
           us
           if
           we
           now
           speak
           plainly
           )
           it
           had
           been
           far
           more
           easie
           unto
           many
           of
           us
           to
           have
           suffered
           ,
           then
           to
           have
           adventured
           hither
           upon
           the
           wildernesse
           sorrows
           wee
           expected
           to
           have
           met
           withall
           ;
           though
           we
           must
           confesse
           the
           Lord
           hath
           sweetned
           it
           beyond
           our
           thoughts
           ,
           and
           utmost
           expectations
           of
           prudent
           men
           .
        
         
           But
           passing
           by
           this
           wee
           must
           desire
           the
           Reader
           to
           beare
           with
           us
           a
           little
           in
           removing
           that
           apprehension
           that
           wee
           are
           the
           great
           stumbling
           block
           in
           the
           way
           of
           Reformation
           ,
           which
           (
           if
           it
           were
           true
           )
           it
           had
           been
           better
           we
           had
           been
           driven
           so
           farre
           into
           this
           wildernesse
           ,
           as
           never
           to
           have
           been
           heard
           of
           more
           .
        
         
           Concerning
           our
           affection
           to
           this
           blessed
           worke
           of
           a
           publique
           Reformation
           ,
           of
           the
           Nation
           in
           generall
           ,
           and
           the
           particular
           Churches
           or
           Congregations
           of
           the
           Land
           in
           particular
           ,
           (
           as
           it
           is
           best
           knowne
           to
           God
           )
           so
           wee
           thinke
           it
           is
           not
           unknowne
           to
           men
           ,
           not
           onely
           here
           by
           our
           daily
           prayers
           for
           it
           ,
           and
           sometime
           solemne
           seekings
           of
           God
           about
           it
           ;
           but
           also
           we
           have
           given
           some
           testimonies
           thereof
           both
           by
           private
           Letters
           ,
           and
           the
           publique
           motions
           of
           some
           of
           Gods
           eminent
           servants
           among
           us
           tending
           that
           way
           .
        
         
           We
           conceive
           two
           things
           specially
           in
           our
           Doctrine
           and
           practise
           ,
           that
           may
           seem
           to
           bee
           stumbling
           blocks
           in
           the
           way
           of
           this
           publique
           Reformation
           ,
           which
           we
           shall
           here
           remove
           .
        
         
           The
           first
           is
           our
           practise
           wherein
           wee
           seem
           so
           much
           to
           differ
           from
           the
           reformed
           Churches
           ,
           in
           receiving
           to
           our
           Churches
           onely
           visible
           Saints
           and
           beleevers
           .
        
         
           This
           we
           doe
           freely
           confesse
           that
           our
           practise
           and
           judgement
           
           doe
           evidence
           this
           to
           all
           ,
           that
           we
           thinke
           reformation
           of
           the
           Church
           doth
           not
           onely
           consist
           in
           purging
           out
           corrupt
           Worship
           ,
           and
           setting
           up
           the
           true
           ;
           but
           also
           in
           purging
           the
           Churches
           from
           such
           profanenesse
           and
           sinfulnesse
           as
           is
           scandalous
           to
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           and
           makes
           the
           Lord
           weary
           of
           his
           owne
           Ordinances
           ,
           
             Esay
             1.
          
           
        
         
           And
           wee
           doubt
           not
           but
           this
           was
           in
           the
           hearts
           of
           many
           ,
           (
           if
           not
           most
           )
           of
           Gods
           servants
           ,
           to
           desire
           a
           separation
           of
           the
           precious
           from
           the
           vile
           ,
           in
           the
           dispensing
           of
           Gods
           ordinances
           ;
           and
           if
           the
           charity
           of
           some
           be
           of
           larger
           extent
           herein
           then
           others
           ,
           this
           hinders
           not
           agreement
           in
           the
           maine
           .
        
         
           This
           day
           hath
           discovered
           what
           kinde
           of
           people
           are
           to
           bee
           found
           every
           where
           in
           the
           Parishes
           of
           England
           :
           Can
           light
           and
           darknesse
           ,
           Christ
           and
           Belial
           agree
           together
           ?
           Popish
           episcopall
           enemies
           and
           haters
           of
           all
           godlinesse
           and
           reformation
           ,
           cleave
           together
           in
           one
           Church
           of
           Christ
           ,
           with
           the
           Saints
           of
           God
           ?
        
         
           Yet
           neither
           our
           Doctrine
           nor
           practise
           do
           prescribe
           and
           limit
           the
           way
           of
           attaining
           this
           reformation
           ,
           whereby
           any
           should
           justly
           from
           our
           example
           stand
           off
           from
           concurring
           in
           such
           a
           publique
           worke
           .
        
         
           It
           is
           true
           ,
           where
           there
           is
           no
           Church
           relation
           ,
           but
           a
           people
           are
           to
           begin
           a
           new
           constituting
           of
           Churches
           ,
           reformation
           is
           to
           be
           sought
           in
           the
           first
           Constitution
           .
           This
           is
           our
           case
           .
           But
           where
           corrupted
           Churches
           ,
           (
           such
           as
           we
           conceive
           the
           Congregations
           of
           England
           generally
           to
           be
           )
           are
           to
           be
           reformed
           ,
           there
           we
           conceive
           that
           such
           Congregations
           should
           bee
           called
           by
           able
           Ministers
           unto
           repentance
           for
           former
           evills
           ,
           and
           confessing
           and
           bewayling
           their
           sins
           ,
           renew
           a
           solemn
           Covenant
           with
           God
           to
           reform
           themselves
           ,
           and
           to
           submit
           unto
           the
           discipline
           of
           Christ
           .
           By
           which
           meanes
           such
           as
           refuse
           so
           to
           doe
           ,
           exclude
           themselves
           ,
           and
           others
           by
           the
           severity
           of
           Discipline
           should
           bee
           purged
           out
           ,
           if
           falling
           into
           sinne
           they
           remaine
           impenitent
           in
           the
           same
           .
        
         
         
           What
           some
           particular
           persons
           may
           have
           said
           or
           done
           contrary
           to
           this
           our
           profession
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           say
           ,
           nor
           doe
           we
           justifie
           ,
           but
           wee
           know
           nothing
           that
           hath
           come
           from
           us
           to
           the
           contrary
           ,
           to
           weaken
           the
           hands
           of
           godly
           reformers
           ,
           or
           to
           perswade
           the
           people
           to
           separate
           from
           the
           Congregations
           ,
           if
           by
           any
           meanes
           they
           might
           attaine
           (
           with
           toleration
           of
           what
           can
           be
           )
           the
           reformation
           thereof
           ,
           with
           the
           liberty
           of
           Gods
           true
           worship
           therein
           .
           If
           indeed
           that
           cannot
           bee
           obtained
           ,
           but
           men
           contradict
           and
           blaspheme
           them
           ,
           as
           Paul
           separated
           the
           Disciples
           ,
           so
           wee
           see
           no
           other
           remedy
           the
           faithfull
           have
           in
           such
           a
           case
           .
        
         
           The
           second
           stumbling
           block
           may
           be
           our
           Doctrine
           and
           practise
           about
           Church-Government
           ,
           when
           wee
           give
           Discipline
           as
           well
           as
           other
           Ordinances
           to
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           not
           subjecting
           them
           to
           any
           Government
           out
           of
           themselves
           ;
           but
           onely
           to
           take
           the
           brotherly
           counsell
           and
           helpe
           one
           of
           another
           .
        
         
           But
           how
           this
           should
           hinder
           a
           generall
           Reformation
           we
           see
           not
           ,
           for
           if
           every
           Church
           so
           reforme
           themselves
           (
           as
           is
           aforesaid
           )
           and
           have
           such
           Officers
           over
           them
           as
           the
           rule
           of
           the
           New
           Testament
           requires
           ,
           
             1
             Tim.
             3.
             
             Tit.
             2.
          
           wee
           need
           not
           feare
           to
           betrust
           the
           Church
           (
           having
           such
           Officers
           )
           with
           that
           power
           which
           we
           conceive
           Christ
           hath
           given
           to
           the
           same
           ,
           other
           Churches
           watching
           over
           them
           ,
           counselling
           and
           admonishing
           them
           in
           the
           Lord.
           
        
         
           But
           if
           there
           be
           not
           such
           a
           reformation
           of
           the
           Churches
           ,
           nor
           such
           guides
           set
           over
           them
           ,
           the
           power
           of
           the
           keyes
           in
           a
           Presbytery
           of
           such
           Pastors
           as
           may
           not
           be
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           ,
           may
           as
           much
           abuse
           them
           as
           a
           particular
           Church
           may
           doe
           ,
           and
           it
           may
           be
           to
           the
           hurt
           of
           many
           who
           would
           use
           them
           better
           ,
           in
           their
           own
           Congregations
           ,
           then
           they
           can
           in
           a
           Classis
           ,
           being
           over-voted
           there
           .
        
         
           And
           we
           cannot
           conceive
           but
           both
           the
           care
           of
           reforming
           the
           matter
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           and
           the
           recalling
           of
           the
           power
           of
           government
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           tends
           much
           to
           further
           this
           worke
           
           of
           reformation
           ,
           no
           way
           to
           hinder
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           And
           if
           wee
           might
           obtaine
           that
           of
           our
           deare
           Brethren
           ,
           which
           wee
           humbly
           crave
           ,
           viz.
           That
           our
           Doctrine
           and
           practise
           might
           be
           taken
           candidly
           according
           to
           our
           plaine
           meaning
           ,
           and
           declarations
           ,
           and
           not
           represented
           unto
           the
           World
           under
           such
           shapes
           and
           formes
           as
           make
           it
           seeme
           rigid
           (
           all
           one
           with
           the
           most
           rigid
           Separatists
           ,
           Donatists
           ,
           Arminians
           ,
           Socinians
           ,
           &c.
           )
           we
           should
           hope
           that
           we
           shall
           goe
           for
           lovers
           and
           friends
           to
           a
           godly
           and
           generall
           Reformation
           ,
           not
           for
           disturbers
           of
           the
           same
           ;
           but
           the
           contrary
           dealing
           we
           meet
           with
           too
           too
           oft
           through
           the
           mistakes
           of
           Brethren
           ;
           This
           learned
           Author
           Mr.
           Ball
           ,
           though
           in
           the
           Epistle
           he
           desired
           us
           to
           rest
           assured
           ,
           that
           although
           he
           had
           conceived
           such
           thoughts
           of
           us
           as
           leaning
           to
           separation
           ,
           yet
           he
           would
           gladly
           receive
           every
           syllable
           from
           us
           that
           should
           dislodge
           such
           thoughts
           ,
           yet
           against
           our
           plaine
           profession
           sometime
           he
           will
           needs
           fasten
           the
           opinion
           of
           separation
           upon
           us
           ,
           and
           very
           frequently
           sets
           Mr.
           Robinson
           in
           a
           parallel
           with
           our
           opinions
           ,
           (
           as
           if
           we
           generally
           went
           that
           way
           in
           those
           things
           )
           which
           are
           well
           known
           to
           be
           the
           Doctrine
           of
           many
           of
           our
           godly
           and
           best
           reformers
           .
        
         
           The
           Learned
           may
           plainly
           see
           ,
           how
           easie
           it
           had
           been
           for
           us
           and
           upon
           better
           grounds
           to
           have
           filled
           our
           margents
           with
           quotations
           out
           of
           Papists
           and
           Prelates
           as
           parallel
           with
           many
           passages
           of
           this
           Reply
           ,
           but
           we
           have
           purposely
           abstained
           from
           so
           doing
           ,
           that
           we
           might
           not
           cast
           any
           blur
           or
           provoke
           the
           spirits
           of
           brethren
           .
        
         
           And
           seeing
           we
           are
           inforced
           to
           wipe
           off
           such
           aspersions
           ,
           we
           humbly
           desire
           our
           beloved
           Brethren
           (
           whose
           learned
           labours
           wee
           honour
           )
           to
           beare
           with
           us
           if
           we
           lightly
           touch
           this
           sore
           ,
           for
           wee
           confesse
           it
           brings
           blushing
           into
           our
           faces
           ,
           and
           sadnesse
           to
           our
           hearts
           ,
           to
           read
           so
           often
           such
           harsh
           imputations
           cast
           upon
           us
           ,
           which
           we
           cannot
           conceive
           but
           (
           falling
           from
           such
           pens
           )
           they
           breed
           a
           strange
           loathing
           of
           us
           in
           the
           stomachs
           of
           many
           that
           read
           bookes
           without
           serious
           examinations
           thereof
           .
        
         
         
           First
           ,
           how
           oft
           doe
           wee
           meet
           with
           that
           imputation
           ,
           that
           wee
           make
           none
           members
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           but
           such
           as
           are
           really
           saints
           and
           beleevers
           ,
           contrary
           to
           our
           frequent
           profession
           ,
           That
           visible
           saints
           that
           are
           such
           in
           judgement
           of
           charity
           are
           fit
           matter
           of
           the
           Church
           ?
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           we
           make
           a
           vocall
           Church
           Oath
           or
           Covenant
           ,
           the
           essentiall
           forme
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           when
           as
           wee
           frequently
           acknowledge
           that
           this
           Covenant
           which
           constituteth
           a
           Church
           ,
           i●
           either
           implicite
           or
           explicite
           ,
           and
           that
           Congregations
           in
           England
           are
           truly
           Churches
           having
           an
           implicite
           covenant
           ;
           and
           it
           is
           far
           from
           our
           practise
           to
           use
           any
           Oath
           in
           our
           Covenant
           ,
           and
           strange
           to
           us
           to
           read
           so
           many
           Pages
           against
           our
           Church
           Oath
           ,
           and
           swearing
           to
           a
           Covenant
           ,
           to
           make
           our
           courses
           horrid
           and
           too
           too
           rigorous
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           that
           we
           set
           up
           a
           popular
           government
           ,
           making
           the
           Elders
           of
           the
           Church
           no
           more
           but
           moderators
           ,
           &c.
           and
           that
           Ministers
           receive
           their
           power
           from
           the
           people
           ,
           are
           their
           servants
           ,
           and
           administer
           in
           their
           name
           ,
           (
           as
           Mr.
           Ball
           and
           others
           object
           )
           when
           we
           oft
           professe
           the
           contrary
           ,
           that
           all
           authority
           (
           properly
           so
           called
           )
           is
           in
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Elders
           ,
           and
           the
           liberty
           of
           the
           people
           is
           to
           bee
           carryed
           in
           a
           way
           of
           subjection
           ,
           and
           obedience
           to
           them
           in
           the
           Lord
           :
           neither
           doth
           it
           follow
           from
           any
           Doctrine
           of
           ours
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           from
           the
           ordination
           of
           Pastors
           by
           the
           Presbytery
           ,
           that
           they
           are
           their
           servants
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           Fourthly
           ,
           that
           if
           a
           Congregation
           reject
           a
           Pastor
           
             for
             no
             fault
          
           ,
           they
           take
           both
           
             nomen
             &
             esse
          
           ,
           the
           name
           and
           nature
           of
           a
           Pastor
           from
           him
           .
           For
           this
           the
           Reader
           is
           referred
           to
           our
           Answer
           of
           the
           twenty
           fift
           Question
           of
           the
           thirty
           two
           questions
           sent
           unto
           us
           ,
           where
           nothing
           at
           all
           is
           said
           ,
           but
           reference
           is
           made
           to
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           nine
           questions
           ,
           amongst
           which
           the
           seventh
           being
           of
           this
           very
           point
           ,
           our
           answer
           is
           quite
           contrary
           to
           what
           is
           imputed
           to
           us
           .
           Our
           words
           are
           these
           ,
           
             Concerning
             the
             Minister
             himselfe
             thus
             deposed
             ,
             &c.
             we
             conceive
             though
             hee
             bee
             by
             them
             deprived
             of
             the
             execution
          
           
           
             of
             his
             Ministery
             amongst
             them
             ,
             yet
             untill
             hee
             accept
             of
             a
             call
             to
             another
             people
             ,
             hee
             still
             remaine
             a
             Minister
             of
             Christ
             ;
             in
             whose
             account
             hee
             hath
             true
             right
             of
             administration
             among
             the
             people
             .
          
           Now
           if
           hee
           remaine
           a
           Minister
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           have
           true
           right
           to
           administer
           ,
           let
           any
           judge
           whether
           wee
           take
           away
           nomen
           or
           esse
           ;
           or
           that
           wee
           make
           Church
           censures
           worke
           
             ex
             opere
             operato
             ,
             clave
             errante
             ,
          
           as
           is
           also
           imputed
           to
           us
           .
           Many
           such
           mistakes
           we
           finde
           ,
           but
           let
           these
           suffice
           to
           informe
           the
           Reader
           how
           wary
           hee
           had
           need
           bee
           in
           receiving
           such
           reports
           against
           brethren
           :
           and
           this
           charity
           wee
           have
           cause
           the
           more
           earnestly
           to
           crave
           of
           all
           ,
           that
           they
           would
           reserve
           one
           eare
           to
           heare
           what
           their
           poore
           out-cast
           brethren
           can
           say
           for
           themselves
           ,
           because
           wee
           are
           placed
           at
           such
           a
           distance
           and
           disadvantage
           ,
           that
           oft-times
           it
           is
           not
           possible
           for
           us
           to
           take
           notice
           of
           such
           objections
           ,
           and
           return
           an
           answer
           under
           a
           yeare
           or
           almost
           two
           years
           ,
           whereby
           Satan
           hath
           a
           marvailous
           advantage
           to
           work
           strange
           thought●
           and
           distastefull
           affections
           towards
           us
           ,
           and
           fasten
           them
           so
           deeply
           that
           hardly
           they
           will
           bee
           taken
           off
           again
           .
           But
           thus
           it
           falleth
           out
           too
           too
           frequently
           ,
           that
           when
           Brethren
           ,
           otherwise
           deare
           to
           each
           other
           ,
           differ
           in
           their
           judgements
           ,
           and
           breake
           out
           to
           open
           contention
           about
           the
           same
           ,
           they
           are
           very
           apt
           to
           make
           the
           opinions
           of
           the
           contrary
           party
           as
           unpleasing
           and
           absurd
           to
           the
           judgement
           of
           others
           ,
           as
           may
           bee
           ,
           whence
           griefe
           ,
           offence
           ,
           and
           alienations
           of
           affections
           (
           through
           the
           subtilty
           of
           Satan
           ,
           and
           the
           corruption
           of
           our
           hearts
           )
           are
           ready
           to
           follow
           .
           And
           this
           makes
           us
           both
           fearfull
           of
           our selves
           ,
           lest
           wee
           should
           give
           way
           to
           any
           unloving
           thoughts
           towards
           the
           deare
           servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           or
           returne
           any
           offensive
           language
           unto
           them
           ;
           yea
           ,
           this
           causeth
           us
           oft
           to
           bewaile
           that
           ,
           which
           can
           never
           bee
           enough
           lamented
           ,
           the
           sad
           distances
           and
           sharpe
           contentions
           between
           such
           neare
           brethren
           ,
           whom
           the
           Lord
           hath
           so
           conjoyned
           in
           the
           same
           Cause
           of
           Reformation
           .
           And
           oh
           that
           our
           deare
           brethren
           would
           beare
           with
           us
           
           a
           little
           here
           ,
           and
           give
           us
           leave
           to
           poure
           out
           our
           humble
           and
           affectionate
           requests
           and
           expostulations
           into
           their
           bosomes
           !
           Wee
           would
           bee
           very
           loath
           to
           impute
           any
           thing
           to
           our
           deare
           Country
           and
           beloved
           brethren
           that
           is
           not
           evident
           ,
           or
           to
           rip
           up
           private
           failings
           ,
           and
           make
           them
           publique
           :
           but
           when
           Pulpits
           and
           Presses
           proclaime
           to
           the
           world
           not
           onely
           the
           distances
           in
           judgement
           ,
           but
           also
           alienation
           of
           affections
           ;
           when
           there
           is
           such
           straining
           to
           make
           the
           contrary
           tenents
           as
           odious
           to
           the
           world
           as
           may
           bee
           ,
           such
           inlarging
           of
           differences
           ,
           as
           if
           the
           wounds
           could
           never
           bee
           healed
           ;
           such
           gall
           and
           vineger
           poured
           on
           ,
           in
           stead
           of
           the
           salt
           of
           savoury
           speeches
           ,
           and
           the
           oyle
           of
           smooth
           and
           soft
           words
           to
           calm
           and
           pacifie
           spirits
           already
           provoked
           ;
           yea
           ,
           when
           there
           want
           not
           some
           that
           seeke
           all
           private
           Letters
           they
           can
           gather
           up
           ,
           and
           search
           every
           corner
           to
           discover
           and
           publish
           to
           the
           world
           the
           seeming
           failings
           of
           brethren
           ;
           when
           contentions
           are
           grown
           to
           that
           passe
           ,
           that
           such
           orthodox
           ,
           learned
           ,
           and
           godly
           brethren
           whose
           faithfull
           labours
           in
           the
           Lords
           worke
           ,
           and
           great
           service
           and
           use
           they
           may
           be
           of
           in
           time
           to
           come
           ,
           might
           worthily
           plead
           for
           a
           roome
           in
           the
           bosomes
           and
           inmost
           affections
           of
           their
           brethren
           ,
           are
           cryed
           out
           against
           as
           not
           to
           bee
           indured
           in
           the
           Countrey
           ,
           because
           of
           some
           difference
           in
           some
           points
           of
           discipline
           :
           when
           these
           things
           are
           so
           ,
           who
           that
           have
           any
           sense
           of
           Gods
           dishonour
           ,
           or
           true
           love
           to
           his
           Countreys
           good
           ,
           can
           forbeare
           from
           teares
           ,
           or
           hold
           his
           peace
           ,
           that
           have
           any
           opportunity
           to
           utter
           his
           griefe
           ?
           Wee
           will
           not
           take
           upon
           us
           to
           say
           who
           began
           this
           fray
           ,
           or
           who
           have
           most
           transgressed
           the
           rules
           of
           charity
           and
           wisedome
           .
           The
           Lord
           give
           every
           man
           an
           heart
           that
           hath
           failed
           to
           bee
           affected
           with
           their
           owne
           ,
           and
           ready
           to
           pity
           and
           pardon
           one
           anothers
           weaknesses
           :
           neither
           doe
           wee
           hereby
           blame
           loving
           and
           candid
           debating
           of
           differences
           to
           finde
           out
           the
           truth
           ;
           but
           give
           us
           leave
           to
           say
           thus
           much
           to
           all
           ,
           (
           for
           our
           hearts
           and
           soules
           are
           with
           all
           the
           faithfull
           servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           that
           desire
           according
           to
           
           their
           light
           to
           promote
           the
           kingdome
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           ,
           what
           ever
           their
           distance
           of
           judgement
           from
           us
           may
           be
           )
           What
           ,
           deare
           brethren
           ,
           is
           there
           no
           balme
           in
           Gilead
           ,
           no
           Physitian
           to
           heale
           this
           wound
           ?
           alasse
           ,
           how
           is
           it
           now
           so
           wide
           and
           deep
           ,
           that
           at
           the
           first
           was
           presented
           to
           the
           world
           so
           small
           ,
           or
           scarce
           any
           at
           all
           ?
           When
           the
           Prelates
           petitioned
           for
           their
           government
           ,
           because
           the
           Reformers
           were
           not
           ,
           nor
           could
           ever
           agree
           upon
           one
           Forme
           :
           it
           was
           professed
           that
           in
           six
           Points
           (
           whereof
           some
           are
           now
           the
           greatest
           bones
           of
           contention
           )
           all
           did
           agree
           ;
           and
           doubted
           not
           but
           if
           the
           Prelates
           were
           downe
           ,
           all
           would
           agree
           in
           one
           .
           And
           was
           this
           bare
           words
           to
           put
           off
           the
           Prelaticall
           petition
           ?
           or
           did
           the
           Author
           speake
           without
           ground
           at
           adventures
           ?
           God
           forbid
           wee
           should
           thinke
           so
           ;
           but
           what
           the
           common
           adversary
           will
           think
           and
           speak
           ,
           it
           would
           grieve
           a
           godly
           heart
           to
           consider
           .
           How
           comes
           it
           then
           to
           passe
           the
           breach
           is
           growne
           so
           great
           ?
           It
           rejoyced
           our
           hearts
           to
           see
           that
           ingenuous
           ,
           Christian
           and
           peaceable
           disposition
           in
           that
           ever
           honoured
           brother
           
             Mr.
             Herle
          
           ,
           who
           brought
           the
           distance
           in
           his
           Preface
           to
           such
           a
           narrow
           ,
           as
           if
           one
           plaster
           more
           might
           seeme
           to
           have
           healed
           it
           ;
           oh
           that
           there
           had
           been
           many
           more
           of
           that
           peace
           making
           spirit
           !
           what
           heart
           burnings
           and
           contentions
           had
           been
           prevented
           .
           Wee
           thought
           also
           that
           me●ke
           Apologetick
           Narration
           gave
           a
           faire
           opportunity
           of
           closing
           with
           brethren
           in
           such
           things
           as
           they
           professed
           to
           concur
           in
           ,
           but
           what
           contrary
           entertainment
           it
           found
           ,
           wee
           lament
           to
           consider
           .
           And
           is
           it
           now
           come
           to
           this
           passe
           ,
           that
           these
           who
           were
           in
           a
           manner
           one
           cannot
           live
           together
           in
           the
           same
           kingdome
           ?
           Oh
           the
           depth
           of
           the
           malice
           and
           subtilty
           of
           that
           old
           Serpent
           !
           Oh
           the
           policy
           and
           undermining
           faculty
           of
           the
           Jesuiticall
           generation
           ,
           (
           who
           no
           doubt
           have
           a
           great
           influence
           in
           this
           division
           !
           )
           Oh
           the
           frailties
           of
           flesh
           and
           blood
           in
           Gods
           dearest
           Saints
           !
           Oh
           the
           unsearchable
           depths
           of
           the
           Lords
           eternall
           counsels
           ,
           that
           for
           holy
           ends
           leaves
           his
           owne
           to
           such
           temptations
           ,
           and
           yet
           knows
           how
           ,
           and
           will
           assuredly
           improve
           all
           
           this
           to
           his
           owne
           glory
           ,
           and
           the
           lifting
           up
           of
           the
           name
           and
           kingdome
           of
           Christ
           in
           despite
           of
           all
           the
           gates
           of
           hell
           ;
           and
           give
           his
           servants
           once
           a
           season
           to
           sing
           together
           this
           song
           of
           Moses
           and
           of
           the
           Lambe
           in
           triumph
           over
           all
           their
           enemies
           .
           But
           what
           ?
           is
           the
           cause
           past
           helpe
           and
           remedy
           ?
           shall
           we
           think
           ,
           alasse
           ,
           there
           is
           no
           hope
           ,
           they
           will
           not
           leave
           untill
           they
           have
           devoured
           each
           other
           ,
           better
           for
           us
           to
           say
           nothing
           ,
           wee
           shall
           bee
           but
           censured
           and
           slighted
           of
           all
           ?
           God
           forbid
           ,
           have
           wee
           ventured
           thus
           farre
           ,
           and
           shall
           wee
           not
           presume
           a
           little
           further
           ?
           Oh
           that
           we
           were
           worthy
           and
           fit
           to
           propound
           any
           thing
           that
           might
           tend
           to
           mollifie
           this
           sore
           :
           Or
           that
           the
           Lord
           himselfe
           would
           speake
           by
           such
           poore
           creatures
           any
           word
           in
           season
           to
           helpe
           (
           at
           least
           a
           little
           )
           in
           this
           sad
           case
           !
           We
           will
           not
           ,
           deare
           Brethren
           ,
           make
           this
           long
           Epistle
           more
           tedious
           by
           presenting
           unto
           you
           all
           that
           might
           be
           said
           to
           move
           and
           perswade
           your
           hearts
           to
           study
           peace
           and
           unity
           ,
           and
           with
           one
           shoulder
           to
           set
           your selves
           to
           further
           this
           blessed
           worke
           of
           publique
           Reformation
           ,
           for
           which
           the
           Lord
           hath
           put
           such
           an
           opportunity
           into
           your
           hands
           ,
           as
           never
           was
           the
           like
           ,
           and
           God
           knows
           ,
           whether
           ever
           it
           will
           bee
           ,
           if
           this
           bee
           slipped
           .
           Wee
           are
           perswaded
           ,
           when
           the
           heate
           of
           contention
           is
           laid
           aside
           ,
           the
           blessed
           Spirit
           of
           Christ
           in
           you
           doth
           secretly
           suggest
           arguments
           enough
           unto
           your
           hearts
           .
           Doe
           you
           not
           oft
           heare
           such
           whisperings
           as
           these
           .
           Are
           they
           not
           Brethren
           who
           differ
           from
           us
           ?
           hath
           ●ot
           the
           Lord
           received
           them
           ?
           doe
           they
           not
           stand
           or
           fall
           to
           their
           own
           Master
           ,
           and
           how
           shall
           wee
           reject
           or
           judge
           them
           ?
           have
           we
           not
           our
           ignorances
           and
           frailties
           ?
           what
           ,
           is
           there
           no
           consolation
           in
           Christ
           ,
           no
           comfort
           of
           love
           ,
           no
           fellowship
           of
           the
           spirit
           ?
           or
           if
           so
           ,
           should
           not
           this
           perswade
           us
           to
           bee
           of
           one
           minde
           in
           the
           Lord
           ?
           doe
           wee
           not
           hope
           to
           live
           in
           heaven
           together
           ,
           and
           shall
           wee
           stand
           at
           such
           distances
           here
           ?
           shall
           wee
           thus
           suffer
           peace
           to
           goe
           from
           us
           ,
           and
           not
           follow
           and
           pursue
           it
           ?
           shall
           we
           lose
           the
           blessing
           of
           peace-makers
           ?
           shall
           wee
           by
           such
           differences
           ,
           thus
           gratifie
           Satan
           ,
           Jesuites
           ,
           Prelates
           ,
           &c.
           and
           strengthen
           
           their
           hands
           by
           weakening
           our
           owne
           ?
           are
           we
           not
           in
           the
           high-way
           to
           devoure
           each
           other
           ,
           and
           expose
           all
           to
           ruine
           ?
           is
           it
           not
           high
           time
           for
           us
           that
           are
           one
           in
           the
           Orthodox
           truth
           ,
           to
           joyne
           heart
           and
           hand
           to
           pray
           ,
           and
           preach
           ,
           and
           write
           as
           one
           ,
           to
           stop
           the
           flood-gate
           of
           errours
           and
           abominations
           that
           Satan
           hath
           set
           open
           to
           the
           drowning
           of
           many
           soules
           ,
           and
           the
           hazzard
           of
           many
           of
           the
           sheep
           of
           Christ
           ,
           whiles
           wee
           are
           contending
           about
           some
           matters
           of
           order
           which
           though
           they
           bee
           of
           moment
           ,
           yet
           must
           give
           way
           unto
           .
           more
           fundamentall
           truths
           ;
           and
           oh
           that
           this
           mischief
           were
           sufficiently
           laid
           to
           heart
           ,
           and
           the
           dangerous
           spreadings
           of
           such
           gangrenes
           looked
           to
           in
           season
           !
           What
           will
           not
           all
           our
           vowes
           ,
           covenants
           and
           solemne
           Oaths
           binde
           us
           together
           ?
           These
           and
           many
           such
           heart-breaking
           considerations
           wee
           doubt
           not
           are
           before
           your
           eyes
           daily
           ,
           which
           therefore
           wee
           will
           not
           inlarge
           .
           Onely
           give
           us
           leave
           to
           propound
           what
           we
           conceive
           in
           our
           weake
           judgement
           might
           somewhat
           tend
           to
           heale
           this
           distance
           .
           Wee
           confesse
           wee
           stand
           farre
           from
           the
           marke
           ,
           and
           may
           misse
           the
           matter
           ,
           but
           if
           we
           doe
           ,
           let
           our
           well-meaning
           bee
           accepted
           ,
           and
           our
           weaknesse
           pardoned
           .
        
         
           Two
           things
           ,
           as
           we
           touched
           before
           ,
           we
           conceive
           keep
           our
           deare
           brethren
           from
           closing
           together
           in
           one
           to
           promote
           the
           publique
           and
           generall
           Reformation
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           that
           point
           of
           Reformation
           which
           concernes
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Churches
           ,
           and
           here
           wee
           feare
           the
           distance
           at
           present
           is
           great
           .
           For
           when
           it
           's
           thought
           ,
           on
           the
           one
           hand
           ,
           that
           there
           is
           no
           need
           of
           sending
           godly
           Preachers
           to
           the
           ignorant
           and
           prophane
           Parishes
           to
           instruct
           them
           ,
           humble
           them
           ,
           and
           prepare
           them
           for
           a
           gracious
           Reformation
           ,
           but
           that
           Pastors
           (
           if
           they
           could
           bee
           found
           )
           should
           bee
           sent
           to
           them
           ,
           and
           minister
           to
           them
           as
           they
           are
           ,
           if
           they
           will
           but
           joyne
           in
           the
           nationall
           Covenant
           ,
           as
           most
           have
           done
           ,
           (
           for
           we
           see
           no
           other
           required
           )
           and
           when
           godly
           Pastors
           may
           not
           have
           power
           to
           try
           their
           people
           whether
           they
           can
           examine
           themselves
           ,
           discerne
           the
           Lords
           body
           ,
           and
           walke
           according
           to
           Christ
           ,
           before
           they
           
           admit
           them
           to
           the
           Lords
           Table
           ,
           nor
           may
           exclude
           them
           but
           upon
           some
           scandalous
           evill
           ,
           which
           seemes
           short
           of
           that
           which
           even
           the
           Common-prayer-booke
           did
           allow
           .
           Considering
           in
           what
           a
           state
           multitude
           of
           Parishes
           are
           in
           England
           ,
           how
           full
           of
           Malignants
           ,
           Atheists
           ,
           prophane
           Wretches
           ,
           &c.
           wee
           must
           needs
           acknowledge
           it
           will
           bee
           very
           hard
           for
           the
           godly
           to
           satisfie
           their
           consciences
           in
           such
           Church-communion
           ,
           or
           godly
           Pastors
           to
           minister
           unto
           their
           Parishes
           in
           such
           a
           state
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           cannot
           wholly
           condemn
           such
           Ministers
           and
           people
           as
           have
           been
           gathered
           into
           congregations
           if
           there
           were
           no
           hope
           of
           remedy
           in
           this
           case
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           on
           the
           other
           hand
           ,
           when
           some
           shall
           gather
           out
           of
           many
           Congregations
           the
           most
           godly
           and
           able
           Christians
           into
           severed
           Churches
           ,
           wee
           must
           acknowledge
           it
           may
           occasion
           grief
           to
           the
           Ministers
           of
           such
           Congregations
           .
           But
           is
           there
           no
           middle
           way
           wherein
           according
           to
           God
           these
           two
           might
           meet
           ?
           wee
           suppose
           there
           is
           .
           If
           the
           Lord
           would
           vouchsafe
           to
           help
           his
           people
           in
           these
           few
           things
           .
        
         
           1
           Is
           it
           not
           possible
           to
           obtaine
           of
           that
           ever
           Renowned
           Parliament
           ,
           not
           onely
           such
           liberty
           for
           godly
           Pastors
           ,
           and
           their
           Churches
           to
           debarre
           from
           the
           Lords
           Table
           such
           as
           are
           not
           qualified
           according
           to
           the
           former
           description
           of
           the
           Reverend
           Assembly
           ;
           but
           also
           all
           favour
           and
           furtherance
           from
           Authority
           to
           purge
           out
           of
           the
           Church
           all
           such
           according
           to
           rule
           ,
           that
           live
           impenitently
           in
           any
           known
           sinne
           and
           scandalous
           evill
           ?
           we
           cannot
           doubt
           but
           that
           if
           brethren
           would
           agree
           with
           one
           heart
           to
           petition
           the
           same
           ,
           such
           as
           have
           done
           so
           worthily
           many
           things
           for
           purging
           the
           House
           of
           God
           ,
           would
           also
           promote
           this
           needfull
           point
           of
           Reformation
           .
        
         
           2
           If
           all
           the
           godly
           Ministers
           would
           joyne
           as
           one
           man
           ,
           and
           take
           unto
           them
           the
           zeale
           of
           
             John
             Bap.
          
           thundering
           out
           the
           direfull
           wrath
           of
           God
           against
           the
           pride
           ,
           vanity
           ,
           luxury
           ,
           prophanenesse
           ,
           and
           late
           swarmes
           of
           monstrous
           errors
           ,
           (
           the
           usuall
           tares
           accompanying
           Reformation
           )
           and
           other
           sinnes
           of
           
           the
           time
           ,
           to
           lay
           all
           levell
           before
           the
           Lord
           ;
           and
           with
           holy
           Calvin
           ,
           resolve
           to
           suffer
           their
           hands
           to
           bee
           cut
           off
           rather
           ,
           then
           to
           deliver
           that
           holy
           seale
           of
           grace
           to
           the
           openly
           wicked
           and
           impenitent
           sinner
           ;
           how
           would
           the
           Lord
           goe
           out
           with
           his
           servants
           ,
           and
           cut
           downe
           sin
           by
           the
           sharpe
           sword
           of
           
           his
           Word
           ,
           and
           severity
           of
           Discipline
           ,
           if
           all
           joyned
           together
           ?
           Whereas
           we
           feare
           sin
           and
           prophanenesse
           will
           out-stare
           all
           godly
           Pastors
           ,
           when
           they
           stand
           so
           much
           divided
           .
        
         
           3
           If
           these
           things
           being
           obtained
           and
           agreed
           ,
           all
           godly
           Ministers
           and
           Christians
           ,
           which
           are
           the
           salt
           of
           the
           earth
           ,
           and
           might
           by
           the
           blessing
           of
           God
           season
           the
           Congregations
           wherein
           they
           live
           ,
           they
           would
           not
           cast
           them
           off
           ,
           or
           withdraw
           from
           them
           ,
           till
           first
           by
           publike
           and
           private
           admonitions
           and
           exhortations
           they
           had
           convinced
           them
           of
           sin
           ,
           and
           sought
           by
           all
           good
           meanes
           their
           reformation
           .
        
         
           Whereby
           some
           no
           doubt
           might
           be
           gained
           ,
           and
           what
           a
           blessed
           worke
           were
           that
           ?
           And
           as
           for
           others
           that
           prove
           obstinate
           and
           impenitent
           ,
           there
           would
           bee
           just
           cause
           of
           rejecting
           them
           from
           the
           ordinances
           and
           society
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           or
           if
           this
           part
           of
           the
           kingdom
           of
           Christ
           would
           not
           be
           born
           in
           Congregations
           ,
           with
           how
           much
           peace
           and
           satisfaction
           to
           their
           owne
           soules
           ,
           and
           to
           the
           consciences
           of
           all
           ,
           should
           such
           godly
           Ministers
           and
           people
           withdraw
           themselves
           from
           them
           ,
           to
           a
           nearer
           communion
           one
           with
           another
           ?
        
         
           And
           shall
           wee
           not
           hope
           that
           England
           is
           capable
           of
           such
           a
           Reformation
           as
           this
           ,
           if
           Gods
           faithfull
           Ministers
           would
           with
           one
           heart
           and
           mind
           endeavour
           the
           same
           ?
           Farre
           ,
           farre
           be
           it
           from
           our
           deare
           Countrey
           ,
           after
           all
           those
           notable
           steps
           unto
           Reformation
           ,
           that
           it
           should
           stick
           in
           this
           ,
           which
           is
           the
           life
           of
           all
           the
           rest
           .
           But
           if
           it
           should
           bee
           so
           ,
           that
           either
           the
           great
           ones
           should
           bee
           too
           big
           to
           stoope
           downe
           to
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           in
           the
           wayes
           of
           his
           wholsome
           Discipline
           ;
           or
           the
           multitude
           so
           carnall
           ,
           worldly
           ,
           wilfull
           ,
           prophane
           ,
           impenitent
           ,
           as
           not
           to
           reforme
           themselves
           ,
           families
           ,
           and
           so
           their
           congregations
           ,
           
           humbly
           submitting
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Christ
           ;
           or
           if
           the
           Ministers
           (
           at
           least
           ,
           most
           of
           them
           )
           should
           looke
           at
           preferment
           ,
           honour
           ,
           credit
           ,
           riches
           ,
           authority
           over
           the
           people
           ,
           and
           not
           minde
           such
           a
           work
           as
           this
           is
           :
           And
           this
           ,
           after
           all
           the
           heavy
           ,
           humbling
           ,
           dreadfull
           judgements
           of
           God
           come
           upon
           the
           Land
           ;
           after
           all
           the
           glorious
           out-breakings
           of
           the
           light
           of
           the
           Gospel
           in
           many
           parts
           of
           the
           Kingdome
           ;
           after
           all
           the
           protestations
           ,
           covenants
           ,
           oaths
           ,
           whereby
           so
           many
           have
           bound
           themselves
           to
           this
           particular
           reformation
           of
           themselves
           ,
           and
           to
           further
           the
           reformation
           of
           the
           Publique
           ;
           wee
           tremble
           to
           speake
           it
           ,
           but
           our
           hearts
           cannot
           but
           feare
           it
           ,
           that
           woe
           ,
           woe
           ,
           woe
           will
           bee
           to
           poore
           sinfull
           England
           .
           It
           seemes
           to
           us
           to
           bee
           a
           propheticall
           speech
           of
           Mr.
           Brinsly
           ,
           long
           since
           at
           rest
           with
           God
           ,
           when
           lamenting
           the
           prophanenesse
           of
           England
           ,
           with
           their
           connivence
           at
           Popery
           ,
           and
           complyance
           with
           the
           wicked
           ;
           he
           saith
           ,
           
             That
             if
             the
             Lord
             of
             Hosts
             doe
             call
             for
             them
             ,
          
           (
           meaning
           the
           Popish
           faction
           )
           
             to
             rise
             up
             against
             us
             in
             new
             conspiracies
             ,
             or
             open
             violence
             ,
             and
             with
             them
             all
             the
             crew
             of
             wicked
             and
             ungodly
             men
             ,
             in
             whom
             we
             have
             so
             delighted
             ,
             to
             take
             part
             with
             those
             to
             our
             destruction
             ,
             (
             as
             they
             ,
             it
             is
             to
             bee
             feared
             ,
             will
             be
             as
             outragious
             as
             the
             other
             against
             all
             soundly
             fearing
             God
             )
             is
             it
             not
             just
             ?
             yea
             if
             hee
             should
             let
             them
             make
             it
          
           bellum
           prodigorum
           ,
           
             the
             day
             of
             all
             the
             spend-thrifts
             ,
             and
             of
             all
             the
             vile
             persons
             of
             the
             Land
             ,
             to
             have
             their
             fingers
             in
             every
             mans
             coffers
             ,
             and
             their
             hands
             washed
             in
             the
             blood
             of
             them
             ,
             whom
             they
             have
             hated
             ,
             so
             soon
             as
             ever
             any
             of
             the
             Babylonish
             
             designes
             shall
             take
             their
             effect
             ,
             could
             wee
             wonder
             at
             it
             ?
          
           And
           is
           not
           this
           fulfilled
           in
           these
           times
           ?
           which
           wee
           wish
           may
           well
           bee
           laid
           to
           heart
           .
        
         
           The
           second
           thing
           which
           wee
           conceive
           may
           chiefly
           hinder
           this
           closing
           ,
           is
           that
           point
           of
           Church
           government
           ,
           which
           concernes
           the
           power
           and
           liberties
           of
           particular
           Churches
           or
           Congregations
           ,
           and
           here
           wee
           must
           acknowledge
           the
           distance
           is
           
           too
           great
           .
           For
           on
           the
           one
           side
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           see
           either
           by
           Treatises
           ,
           or
           by
           the
           Directory
           for
           Worship
           ,
           that
           Congregations
           are
           acknowledged
           to
           bee
           compleat
           Churches
           ,
           especially
           standing
           among
           other
           Churches
           ,
           or
           that
           any
           power
           or
           liberty
           is
           given
           to
           them
           to
           administer
           Church
           censures
           ,
           no
           not
           so
           long
           as
           they
           administer
           rightly
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           ,
           but
           all
           such
           power
           is
           taken
           indeed
           from
           the
           Churches
           ,
           though
           in
           words
           they
           are
           perswaded
           that
           it
           is
           to
           strengthen
           them
           ;
           and
           if
           this
           also
           come
           down
           from
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           to
           lesser
           Synods
           ,
           the
           greater
           part
           having
           power
           over
           the
           lesse
           ,
           as
           it
           were
           
             jure
             divino
          
           ,
           it
           will
           strike
           sore
           at
           the
           liberties
           and
           power
           of
           particular
           Churches
           .
           But
           what
           here
           to
           say
           of
           the
           distance
           on
           the
           other
           hand
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           tell
           ,
           wee
           see
           or
           read
           nothing
           ,
           but
           that
           our
           deare
           and
           honoured
           Brethren
           doe
           freely
           imbrace
           communion
           of
           Churches
           in
           consultative
           Synods
           ,
           for
           the
           brotherly
           helpe
           of
           each
           other
           ,
           and
           the
           weaker
           Churches
           ;
           yea
           ,
           and
           in
           a
           doctrinall
           way
           to
           declare
           the
           will
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           to
           threaten
           his
           judgements
           against
           such
           as
           shall
           refuse
           wholsome
           counsell
           ,
           and
           withdraw
           communion
           from
           such
           as
           wilfully
           refuse
           to
           heare
           what
           is
           propounded
           according
           to
           the
           minde
           of
           Christ
           .
        
         
           And
           what
           should
           we
           here
           say
           ?
           but
           on
           the
           bended
           knees
           of
           our
           soules
           intreat
           our
           reverend
           Brethren
           to
           consider
           what
           power
           any
           or
           many
           Churches
           can
           challenge
           over
           another
           ,
           to
           require
           them
           to
           give
           up
           their
           right
           to
           them
           ,
           to
           rule
           in
           common
           ,
           if
           a
           sister
           Church
           furnished
           with
           Officers
           shall
           refuse
           the
           same
           ;
           or
           what
           rule
           bindeth
           the
           Churches
           of
           an
           hundred
           ,
           or
           any
           such
           civill
           division
           to
           come
           into
           such
           a
           combination
           with
           those
           Churches
           ,
           rather
           then
           others
           ,
           if
           that
           refusing
           ,
           Churches
           have
           just
           reasons
           to
           object
           against
           such
           Churches
           ,
           or
           their
           Officers
           .
           We
           think
           the
           more
           voluntary
           and
           free
           such
           consociations
           are
           ,
           the
           better
           :
           Here
           we
           shall
           be
           bold
           to
           propound
           this
           one
           thing
           ,
           viz.
           Why
           may
           not
           the
           fifth
           and
           sixth
           Articles
           of
           agreement
           publikely
           professed
           to
           the
           world
           ,
           in
           answer
           to
           the
           Prelaticall
           petition
           ,
           obtaine
           amongst
           our
           Brethren
           ,
           that
           it
           may
           appeare
           to
           the
           disappointment
           
           of
           their
           hopes
           ,
           that
           the
           Prelates
           being
           downe
           ,
           the
           agreement
           would
           be
           easie
           ,
           as
           is
           there
           said
           .
           Viz.
           
        
         
           
             Ar.
             5.
          
           
           Each
           particular
           Church
           hath
           her
           owne
           power
           and
           authority
           ,
           and
           the
           use
           and
           benefit
           of
           all
           the
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ;
           neither
           is
           there
           any
           thing
           to
           be
           done
           without
           the
           expresse
           or
           tacit
           consent
           of
           the
           Congregation
           ,
           in
           matters
           which
           are
           proper
           and
           peculiar
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           whether
           in
           election
           or
           ordination
           of
           Ministers
           ,
           or
           in
           admitting
           or
           excommunicating
           of
           members
           .
        
         
           
             Ar.
             6.
          
           
           It
           is
           in
           many
           respects
           expedient
           both
           for
           the
           members
           of
           each
           Church
           ,
           whether
           Ministers
           or
           people
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           right
           governing
           and
           well-being
           of
           the
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           in
           a
           Nation
           professing
           Christian
           Religion
           ,
           that
           besides
           their
           particular
           Assemblies
           and
           Elderships
           ,
           they
           meet
           by
           their
           ▪
           Commissioners
           ,
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           Elders
           in
           greater
           Assemblies
           ,
           that
           matters
           that
           concern
           all
           the
           Churches
           within
           their
           bounds
           respective
           may
           with
           common
           advice
           and
           consent
           be
           agreed
           upon
           for
           their
           good
           and
           edification
           .
        
         
           And
           we
           hope
           the
           Lord
           may
           yet
           have
           such
           a
           mercy
           for
           England
           ,
           if
           the
           crying
           sins
           thereof
           bee
           not
           still
           impenitently
           against
           this
           glorious
           shining
           light
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           persisted
           in
           ,
           which
           wee
           confesse
           is
           our
           greatest
           feare
           ,
           Godly
           Brethren
           wee
           hope
           would
           agree
           ,
           if
           Englands
           sins
           hinder
           not
           .
           We
           confesse
           it
           was
           the
           saddest
           newes
           that
           this
           yeare
           came
           unto
           our
           eares
           ,
           that
           the
           Kingdome
           of
           Christ
           is
           hardly
           like
           to
           obtaine
           ,
           so
           much
           jealousie
           there
           is
           ,
           lest
           the
           discipline
           of
           Christ
           should
           ,
           crosse
           ▪
           the
           licentionsnesse
           of
           this
           age
           ;
           yea
           ,
           that
           generally
           there
           is
           no
           more
           regard
           of
           the
           solemn
           Covenant
           ,
           especially
           in
           personall
           reformation
           ,
           then
           if
           it
           were
           never
           made
           ,
           that
           many
           reject
           the
           reformations
           they
           seemed
           to
           desire
           at
           the
           first
           .
           These
           ,
           with
           other
           sad
           things
           come
           to
           our
           eares
           ,
           which
           sadden
           our
           spirits
           .
           Oh
           
             England
             !
             England
          
           !
           our
           beloved
           England
           !
           wilt
           thou
           not
           be
           made
           cleane
           ?
           when
           will
           it
           once
           bee
           ?
           wilt
           thou
           still
           return
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           ,
           (
           graciously
           striving
           with
           thee
           for
           to
           save
           thee
           )
           
           such
           an
           unkind
           answer
           ,
           We
           will
           not
           have
           this
           man
           reigne
           over
           us
           ?
           hast
           thou
           not
           yet
           learned
           so
           much
           wisdom
           ,
           as
           to
           kisse
           the
           son
           ,
           no
           not
           now
           when
           he
           is
           angry
           and
           the
           sword
           in
           his
           hand
           ?
           That
           voice
           of
           God
           soundeth
           oft
           in
           our
           eares
           ,
           when
           wee
           thinke
           of
           
             England
             ,
             Put
             off
             thine
             ornaments
             ,
             that
             I
             may
             know
             what
             to
             doe
             unto
             thee
          
           ;
           but
           for
           ought
           we
           heare
           ,
           the
           pride
           of
           England
           did
           never
           so
           much
           testifie
           to
           their
           faces
           as
           now
           ,
           when
           sackcloth
           and
           ashes
           were
           more
           suitable
           .
           The
           Lord
           humble
           the
           hearts
           of
           our
           deare
           Countrey-men
           ,
           or
           else
           wee
           feare
           the
           yoake
           of
           Christ
           will
           never
           be
           born
           ,
           and
           how
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           will
           beare
           and
           indure
           that
           ,
           we
           tremble
           to
           think
           .
        
         
           But
           what
           doe
           we
           thus
           to
           take
           upon
           us
           ,
           and
           let
           loose
           our
           Pen
           so
           far
           ?
           pardon
           ,
           we
           beseech
           you
           ,
           Christian
           Reader
           ,
           this
           seeming
           boldnesse
           ,
           it
           is
           our
           hearty
           affection
           to
           the
           peace
           and
           prosperity
           of
           our
           deare
           Countrey
           ,
           and
           the
           Saints
           of
           God
           in
           it
           ,
           that
           have
           drawn
           these
           things
           from
           us
           .
           Say
           not
           ,
           what
           calling
           have
           these
           thus
           to
           admonish
           and
           censure
           us
           ?
           Censure
           we
           doe
           not
           ,
           (
           that
           we
           would
           doe
           onely
           to
           our selves
           )
           but
           faithfully
           to
           admonish
           and
           exhort
           in
           the
           Lord
           ,
           we
           hope
           we
           may
           presume
           .
           Neither
           have
           we
           taken
           upon
           us
           this
           whole
           weighty
           worke
           ,
           of
           our
           owne
           minds
           ,
           but
           at
           the
           request
           and
           call
           of
           divers
           our
           reverend
           Brethren
           ,
           whose
           voice
           herein
           we
           looked
           upon
           as
           the
           voice
           of
           God
           ;
           nor
           have
           wee
           accepted
           that
           call
           ,
           out
           of
           any
           lust
           we
           have
           to
           contend
           ,
           or
           enter
           the
           lists
           of
           disputation
           with
           any
           .
           Wee
           love
           the
           peace
           of
           the
           Churches
           ,
           and
           unity
           and
           concord
           with
           all
           our
           deare
           and
           godly
           Brethren
           too
           well
           ,
           to
           have
           any
           such
           ends
           .
           And
           though
           wee
           are
           not
           unwilling
           to
           receive
           and
           consider
           any
           returne
           that
           may
           bee
           made
           ,
           and
           we
           hope
           with
           a
           mind
           to
           submit
           to
           the
           truth
           ;
           yet
           wee
           must
           professe
           Two
           things
           chiefly
           inclined
           us
           to
           undertake
           this
           worke
           .
           First
           ,
           to
           cleare
           up
           such
           truths
           as
           we
           conceive
           to
           bee
           according
           to
           the
           minde
           of
           Christ
           ,
           which
           were
           obscured
           by
           this
           Reply
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           (
           and
           that
           especially
           )
           hoping
           that
           what
           wee
           should
           write
           ,
           would
           tend
           rather
           to
           a
           peaceable
           healing
           of
           offences
           and
           differences
           ,
           then
           otherwise
           ;
           and
           therefore
           have
           presumed
           
           to
           Preface
           thus
           farre
           ,
           and
           so
           to
           present
           these
           our
           affectionate
           requests
           to
           our
           deare
           Brethren
           ,
           and
           Country-men
           ,
           which
           wee
           heartily
           recommend
           to
           their
           serious
           consideration
           ,
           and
           to
           the
           blessing
           of
           God
           ,
           who
           onely
           can
           incline
           the
           hearts
           of
           men
           ,
           to
           attend
           to
           any
           thing
           of
           God
           set
           before
           them
           ;
           though
           wee
           bee
           the
           meanest
           and
           weakest
           of
           many
           ,
           to
           take
           upon
           us
           ,
           thus
           to
           speake
           to
           our
           deare
           Country-men
           ,
           yet
           through
           the
           grace
           of
           Christ
           who
           put
           us
           into
           the
           Ministery
           ,
           we
           have
           bestowed
           a
           great
           part
           of
           our
           labour
           in
           these
           parts
           ,
           neither
           (
           we
           hope
           )
           altogether
           in
           vaine
           ;
           which
           makes
           us
           somewhat
           the
           more
           engaged
           and
           encouraged
           to
           write
           as
           we
           doe
           .
           And
           now
           having
           thus
           farre
           in
           this
           Epistle
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           Booke
           following
           ,
           testified
           our
           love
           to
           the
           truth
           ,
           and
           desires
           of
           the
           peace
           ,
           unity
           ,
           reformation
           ,
           and
           prosperity
           of
           our
           beloved
           England
           ,
           and
           the
           Churches
           of
           God
           therein
           ,
           wee
           commend
           both
           to
           the
           consideration
           of
           the
           Reader
           ,
           and
           all
           to
           the
           grace
           and
           blessing
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           ,
           and
           rest
           .
        
         
           
             From
             New-England
             ,
             
               Novemb.
               28.
               1645.
               
            
          
           
             THO.
             ALLIN
             ,
             THO.
             SHEPARD
             .
          
        
      
       
         
         
           ADVERTISEMENTS
           TO
           THE
           READER
           .
        
         
           TO
           the
           Epistle
           of
           the
           Author
           of
           this
           Reply
           wee
           say
           nothing
           ,
           because
           it
           savours
           (
           for
           the
           most
           part
           )
           of
           love
           and
           desire
           of
           unity
           ,
           which
           we
           thankfully
           acknowledge
           ;
           onely
           we
           cannot
           but
           take
           notice
           of
           two
           passages
           .
        
         
           1
           
             A
             complaint
             made
             against
             some
             standing
             affected
          
           New-England
           
             ward
             ,
             who
             have
             carryed
             it
             so
             ,
             as
             if
             a
             chiefe
             part
             of
             holinesse
             consisted
             in
             separation
             ;
             and
             that
             therefore
             some
             have
             separated
             from
             all
             private
             and
             publique
             communion
             there
             ;
             others
             from
             all
             publique
             ,
             but
             not
             from
             private
             ;
             others
             from
             the
             Sacraments
             onely
             ,
             allowing
             publique
             communion
             otherwise
             .
          
        
         
           To
           which
           wee
           answer
           ,
           that
           as
           the
           Church
           fell
           by
           degrees
           into
           universall
           pollution
           ,
           by
           the
           Apostasie
           foretold
           to
           bee
           under
           the
           Man
           of
           Sin
           ;
           so
           by
           degrees
           it
           recovers
           out
           of
           it
           againe
           :
           If
           therefore
           separation
           reach
           no
           farther
           then
           separation
           from
           sinnes
           ,
           and
           such
           sinnes
           of
           Churches
           wherein
           our selves
           in
           joyning
           with
           them
           must
           bee
           involved
           ,
           wee
           suppose
           such
           separation
           
           (
           all
           due
           respect
           and
           love
           reserved
           and
           professed
           to
           the
           Churches
           themselves
           )
           cannot
           justly
           bee
           accounted
           unwarrantable
           ;
           and
           't
           is
           the
           profession
           of
           the
           Author
           in
           his
           Epistle
           ,
           to
           plead
           for
           communion
           with
           the
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           ,
           no
           farther
           then
           they
           hold
           communion
           with
           Christ
           :
           If
           any
           transgresse
           these
           bounds
           ,
           either
           in
           respect
           of
           private
           or
           publique
           communion
           in
           England
           ,
           wee
           must
           professe
           openly
           ,
           that
           if
           any
           mourn
           for
           it
           ,
           wee
           are
           (
           or
           would
           bee
           )
           companions
           with
           them
           in
           that
           griefe
           .
           Whose
           heart
           bleeds
           not
           to
           see
           Gods
           flock
           scattered
           ,
           and
           needlesse
           rents
           made
           ?
           that
           scarce
           Truth
           or
           errour
           can
           now
           adayes
           bee
           received
           ,
           but
           it
           is
           maintained
           in
           a
           way
           of
           Schisme
           ;
           directly
           contrary
           to
           the
           gathering
           and
           uniting
           Spirit
           of
           Jesus
           Christ
           :
           A
           wide
           Conscience
           calls
           evill
           ,
           good
           ,
           and
           therefore
           can
           communicate
           with
           any
           evill
           ;
           a
           strait
           Conscience
           cals
           good
           ,
           evill
           ,
           (
           as
           Gerson
           observes
           )
           and
           therefore
           can
           readily
           separate
           even
           from
           that
           which
           is
           good
           .
           When
           rash
           and
           sudden
           men
           are
           grown
           masters
           of
           their
           Consciences
           ,
           it
           troubles
           not
           them
           from
           whom
           they
           divide
           ,
           nor
           whither
           they
           run
           in
           separate
           wayes
           ;
           when
           weak
           (
           yet
           godly
           men
           )
           are
           under
           the
           tendernesse
           ,
           (
           yet
           much
           darknesse
           )
           of
           Conscience
           ,
           being
           very
           timorous
           of
           wayes
           that
           are
           evill
           ,
           grow
           many
           times
           shy
           (
           at
           least
           in
           simplicity
           are
           led
           )
           from
           wayes
           that
           afterward
           are
           found
           to
           be
           lawfull
           and
           good
           .
           'T
           is
           the
           usuall
           misery
           of
           English
           spirits
           ,
           either
           to
           spin
           the
           Spiders
           web
           ,
           and
           swallow
           down
           all
           corruptions
           in
           Churches
           ;
           or
           so
           to
           breake
           downe
           the
           gap
           in
           forsaking
           corruptions
           utterly
           to
           abandon
           the
           Churches
           themselves
           :
           The
           wine
           of
           causelesse
           separation
           hath
           a
           spirit
           in
           it
           ,
           (
           if
           God
           graciously
           prevent
           not
           )
           that
           hurries
           men
           headlong
           to
           strange
           distances
           ,
           that
           in
           separating
           from
           publique
           ,
           they
           separate
           from
           private
           ;
           in
           separating
           from
           corrupt
           Churches
           (
           as
           no
           Churches
           )
           
           they
           separate
           from
           the
           purest
           ,
           even
           those
           of
           their
           own
           ;
           in
           separating
           from
           pollutions
           of
           Gods
           ordinances
           ,
           at
           last
           they
           fall
           to
           the
           storming
           of
           some
           ,
           if
           not
           to
           the
           utter
           renouncing
           of
           all
           the
           Ordinances
           themselves
           :
           we
           mourne
           (
           wee
           say
           )
           for
           such
           evills
           ,
           and
           could
           with
           bended
           knees
           desire
           our
           deare
           Countrey-men
           to
           consider
           ,
           whether
           this
           bee
           the
           Spirit
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           that
           so
           carries
           them
           ;
           to
           reject
           them
           whom
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           hath
           not
           yet
           wholly
           forsaken
           ;
           and
           not
           rather
           with
           one
           heart
           ,
           and
           with
           bowells
           of
           compassion
           (
           if
           any
           liberty
           can
           bee
           procured
           )
           to
           study
           how
           to
           heale
           the
           bleeding
           breaches
           ,
           and
           manifold
           evills
           of
           sick
           and
           sinfull
           England
           ,
           that
           in
           their
           owne
           recovery
           from
           pollutions
           ,
           the
           whole
           may
           arise
           and
           share
           alike
           with
           them
           therein
           ;
           tolerating
           with
           all
           long-suffering
           many
           things
           amisse
           ,
           &
           mourning
           daily
           after
           the
           Lord
           ,
           till
           such
           times
           come
           wherein
           he
           wil
           give
           his
           people
           his
           ordinances
           ,
           not
           only
           in
           purity
           ,
           but
           also
           in
           power
           ;
           when
           the
           Lord
           shall
           be
           one
           ,
           and
           his
           name
           one
           ,
           Zach.
           14.
           9.
           over
           all
           the
           earth
           .
           As
           for
           our selves
           ,
           wee
           look
           not
           upon
           our
           departure
           to
           these
           parts
           to
           be
           a
           separation
           (
           rigidly
           taken
           )
           but
           a
           lawfull
           secession
           ,
           or
           a
           heavenly
           translation
           from
           corrupt
           to
           more
           pure
           Churches
           ,
           by
           the
           hand
           of
           our
           God
           ;
           and
           how
           far
           we
           allow
           of
           separation
           ,
           the
           ensuing
           Treatise
           will
           declare
           .
        
         
           2
           
             The
             second
             is
             ,
             That
             we
             dissent
             one
             from
             another
             as
             much
             as
             others
             from
             us
             ,
             and
             perhaps
             the
             lesser
             part
             of
             us
             .
          
        
         
           Answ
           .
           We
           confesse
           we
           know
           but
           little
           ,
           and
           that
           but
           in
           part
           ,
           and
           therefore
           if
           we
           should
           say
           ,
           that
           in
           some
           things
           we
           did
           not
           dissent
           ,
           we
           should
           not
           speak
           the
           truth
           ,
           nor
           say
           that
           we
           were
           sinfull
           men
           ;
           yet
           this
           we
           must
           speak
           to
           his
           praise
           whose
           we
           are
           ,
           and
           whom
           we
           serve
           with
           our
           spirits
           in
           the
           Gospel
           of
           his
           Son
           ;
           that
           although
           Satan
           hath
           been
           oft
           busie
           to
           make
           breaches
           among
           us
           ,
           yet
           the
           Ministers
           of
           Christ
           have
           been
           hitherto
           generally
           (
           if
           not
           all
           )
           of
           one
           
           heart
           and
           mind
           in
           the
           maine
           and
           principall
           things
           of
           his
           Kingdom
           amongst
           us
           :
           and
           (
           which
           is
           observed
           by
           many
           )
           where
           ever
           differences
           are
           sown
           ,
           yet
           the
           Ministers
           never
           disagree
           :
           and
           that
           although
           some
           differences
           have
           and
           doe
           arise
           before
           their
           convening
           together
           ,
           yet
           they
           never
           yet
           met
           ,
           but
           grace
           hath
           over-wrestled
           corruption
           ;
           peace
           ,
           trouble
           ;
           and
           truth
           ,
           errour
           ;
           and
           so
           have
           most
           sweetly
           accorded
           in
           one
           ;
           the
           thoughts
           of
           which
           Christ-like
           peaceablenesse
           of
           spirit
           and
           love
           ,
           as
           it
           oft
           sweetens
           many
           other
           sorrows
           ,
           so
           we
           desire
           to
           bee
           spared
           herein
           ,
           and
           that
           this
           our
           crowne
           may
           not
           bee
           taken
           from
           us
           by
           such
           passages
           ,
           (
           suggesting
           great
           differences
           )
           as
           these
           be
           .
        
         
           Now
           for
           the
           Reply
           it self
           ,
           we
           desire
           the
           Reader
           to
           consider
           ,
           that
           we
           had
           neither
           time
           ,
           nor
           Bookes
           ready
           at
           hand
           to
           consider
           some
           of
           the
           quotations
           made
           in
           the
           margent
           ;
           and
           therfore
           being
           such
           testimonies
           as
           cast
           not
           the
           ballance
           one
           way
           or
           another
           ,
           we
           have
           passed
           most
           of
           them
           by
           with
           silence
           .
        
         
           It
           had
           also
           been
           easie
           for
           us
           to
           have
           Analysed
           more
           orderly
           the
           words
           of
           the
           Reply
           ,
           then
           as
           they
           are
           set
           downe
           ;
           but
           (
           because
           we
           would
           not
           doe
           the
           least
           wrong
           )
           we
           have
           set
           them
           down
           as
           we
           finde
           them
           in
           the
           Book
           ;
           not
           every
           passage
           (
           for
           that
           were
           needlesse
           )
           but
           those
           things
           wherein
           there
           seemes
           to
           bee
           any
           observable
           matter
           of
           dispute
           between
           us
           ;
           nor
           are
           we
           conscious
           of
           doing
           the
           Author
           the
           least
           wrong
           in
           setting
           down
           his
           own
           words
           ,
           as
           hereafter
           you
           find
           them
           .
        
         
           We
           confesse
           ,
           that
           in
           sundry
           of
           our
           Answers
           ,
           we
           have
           studied
           not
           onely
           to
           answer
           to
           the
           Reply
           ,
           but
           have
           taken
           in
           what
           sundry
           others
           godly
           learned
           object
           against
           our
           principles
           ,
           but
           without
           mentioning
           (
           scarce
           any
           time
           )
           their
           Names
           ,
           of
           which
           we
           are
           sparing
           for
           no
           other
           reason
           ,
           but
           because
           we
           honour
           the
           men
           from
           our
           very
           hearts
           ,
           and
           could
           wish
           (
           though
           differently
           minded
           from
           us
           in
           
           some
           things
           )
           as
           Melanchthon
           did
           in
           another
           the
           like
           case
           ,
           to
           live
           and
           die
           in
           their
           bosomes
           .
           The
           name
           of
           this
           servant
           of
           Christ
           now
           asleep
           ,
           is
           an
           oyntment
           poured
           out
           and
           precious
           to
           us
           ;
           we
           could
           therefore
           have
           wisht
           it
           our
           portion
           to
           have
           answered
           the
           Booke
           without
           the
           least
           reflecting
           upon
           him
           ,
           but
           the
           necessity
           herein
           is
           unavoydable
           .
           This
           onely
           we
           adde
           ,
           that
           whatever
           weaknesses
           may
           passe
           from
           us
           ,
           let
           them
           not
           bee
           imputed
           to
           those
           servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           that
           set
           us
           on
           work
           ,
           and
           have
           wanted
           leisure
           to
           review
           what
           is
           here
           done
           ;
           Every
           one
           may
           not
           bee
           in
           all
           things
           of
           the
           same
           mind
           with
           us
           ,
           for
           they
           may
           meet
           us
           in
           the
           same
           end
           ,
           though
           they
           use
           not
           the
           same
           arguments
           ,
           or
           become
           followers
           of
           us
           in
           the
           same
           path
           ;
           yet
           we
           know
           wee
           are
           not
           alone
           in
           any
           thing
           ,
           but
           may
           safely
           say
           thus
           much
           ,
           that
           what
           is
           here
           defended
           ,
           is
           generally
           acknowledged
           and
           received
           in
           these
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           .
        
      
    
     
       
         
         A
         DEFENCE
         OF
         THE
         
           NINE
           POSITIONS
        
         .
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           I.
           
        
         
           
             Concerning
             the
             Title
             .
          
           
             WHereas
             it
             is
             called
             a
             new
             Church-way
             ;
             wee
             little
             expected
             that
             Brethren
             studious
             of
             Reformation
             ,
             who
             have
             been
             so
             exercised
             with
             imputations
             of
             novelty
             ,
             would
             have
             so
             readily
             ,
             and
             in
             the
             frontispice
             cast
             the
             same
             upon
             us
             ,
             who
             with
             them
             desire
             to
             walk
             in
             the
             first
             wayes
             of
             our
             Lord
             Jesus
             Christ
             and
             his
             holy
             Apostles
             ;
             but
             as
             in
             most
             substantiall
             points
             of
             Church-order
             ,
             wee
             goe
             along
             with
             the
             best
             reformed
             Churches
             ,
             so
             wee
             doubt
             not
             to
             make
             it
             good
             that
             wherein
             wee
             (
             pressing
             after
             further
             Reformation
             )
             seeme
             to
             differ
             from
             them
             ;
             yet
             wee
             build
             upon
             Scripture
             grounds
             acknowledged
             by
             many
             godly
             and
             Learned
             Reformers
             ,
             in
             our
             English
             and
             other
             reformed
             Churches
             :
             which
             ,
             if
             the
             Lord
             have
             in
             mercy
             given
             us
             further
             light
             ,
             (
             or
             rather
             opportunity
             to
             practise
             )
             then
             they
             had
             ,
             let
             it
             not
             bee
             imputed
             to
             us
             for
             novelty
             .
          
           
             A
             new
             edition
             of
             the
             old
             Church-way
             of
             godly
             Reformers
             ,
             in
             some
             things
             perhaps
             corrected
             and
             amended
             ,
             is
             no
             new
             
             Church-way
             ;
             or
             if
             it
             be
             thought
             the
             mending
             of
             some
             crooks
             in
             the
             old
             way
             make
             a
             new
             way
             ,
             wee
             answer
             with
             Junius
             in
             a
             case
             not
             unlike
             ;
             
               Vteunque
               novam
               esse
               videatur
               ,
               attamen
               quaecunque
               sunt
               vetera
               ,
               fuerunt
               nova
               ,
               ac
               non
               propterea
               novitati●
               nomine
               vitiosa
               ,
            
             
             
               nisi
               forte
               novam
               pro
               renovatâ
               &
               restitutâ
               accipitis
               ;
               quo
               sensu
               novam
               esse
               hanc
               viam
               agnoscimus
               .
            
          
           
             One
             thing
             more
             in
             the
             Title
             page
             the
             Reader
             is
             to
             take
             notice
             of
             ,
             that
             whereas
             it
             is
             said
             ,
             
               This
               Treatise
               of
               Mr.
            
             Ball
             
               was
               penned
               a
               little
               before
               his
               death
               ,
               and
               sent
               over
               1637.
               it
               seemes
               to
               bee
               a
               mistake
               of
               the
               Printer
            
             ;
             for
             the
             Nine
             Questions
             themselves
             were
             sent
             over
             1636
             ,
             the
             answer
             returned
             38
             ,
             but
             miscarrying
             ,
             another
             was
             sent
             39.
             from
             which
             time
             wee
             longingly
             expected
             a
             return
             ,
             but
             partly
             for
             the
             reason
             rendred
             in
             the
             Epistle
             ,
             and
             what
             else
             wee
             know
             not
             ,
             wee
             never
             in
             so
             many
             yeares
             received
             any
             ,
             till
             this
             printed
             Reply
             by
             a
             Friends
             meanes
             came
             occasionally
             to
             our
             hands
             ,
             1644.
             
          
        
         
           
             Concerning
             the
             Epistle
             to
             the
             Reader
             .
          
           
             Whereas
             the
             publishers
             of
             this
             Treatise
             impute
             unto
             us
             ,
             or
             some
             related
             to
             our
             Cause
             ,
             
               That
               we
               are
               the
            
             Volunteers
             ,
             
               such
               as
               cry
               up
               this
               way
               ,
               and
               forward
               to
               blow
               such
               things
               abroad
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               which
               pressed
               them
               to
               make
               this
               Controversie
               publique
               .
            
          
           
             1
             Wee
             may
             truly
             professe
             before
             the
             world
             ,
             that
             our
             Epistle
             sent
             with
             our
             former
             Answer
             ,
             proceeded
             from
             a
             spirit
             of
             love
             and
             peace
             ,
             with
             an
             humble
             willingnesse
             to
             receive
             further
             light
             by
             the
             holy
             and
             just
             Animadversions
             of
             our
             reverend
             and
             beloved
             Brethren
             ,
             which
             wee
             earnestly
             expected
             as
             men
             searching
             after
             the
             truth
             .
          
           
             2
             That
             wee
             were
             altogether
             ignorant
             of
             the
             Printing
             of
             that
             our
             Answer
             ;
             and
             in
             that
             it
             was
             published
             then
             ,
             was
             not
             without
             our
             utter
             dislike
             ;
             wee
             have
             neither
             sounded
             trumpet
             ,
             nor
             struck
             up
             drum
             to
             any
             (
             if
             any
             such
             )
             volunteers
             ,
             wee
             heartily
             grieve
             that
             there
             are
             any
             differences
             between
             Brethren
             ,
             much
             more
             that
             they
             should
             bee
             published
             ;
             most
             of
             all
             ,
             if
             before
             they
             bee
             privately
             debated
             ,
             and
             brought
             to
             some
             head
             by
             mutual
             consent
             ,
             are
             thought
             fit
             to
             be
             sent
             out
             to
             publique
             considerations
             .
          
           
             3
             For
             our
             Brethren
             in
             England
             ,
             we
             know
             no
             reason
             to
             question
             the
             truth
             of
             that
             Apology
             of
             our
             Brother
             ,
             Mr.
             
               Thomas
               Weld
            
             ,
             in
             his
             answer
             to
             
               W.
               R.
               pag.
               2.
               
               Obj.
               3.
               
               Answ
               .
            
             1.
             where
             he
             professeth
             in
             the
             name
             of
             himselfe
             and
             others
             of
             our
             way
             ,
             a
             lothnesse
             to
             appeare
             
             in
             the
             case
             ,
             and
             that
             although
             they
             had
             Bookes
             of
             this
             subject
             ready
             for
             the
             Presse
             ,
             yet
             by
             joint
             consent
             they
             suppressed
             them
             ,
             (
             happily
             to
             the
             detriment
             of
             the
             Cause
             )
             being
             unwilling
             to
             blow
             a
             fire
             ;
             and
             whether
             they
             appeared
             in
             Pulpit
             or
             Presse
             without
             instigation
             ,
             and
             how
             sparingly
             ,
             hee
             appeales
             to
             all
             the
             godly
             to
             judge
             .
          
           
             4
             Lastly
             ,
             wee
             desire
             our
             Brethren
             to
             consider
             the
             date
             of
             Mr.
             Ball
             his
             Booke
             printed
             for
             stinted
             Liturgies
             ,
             (
             one
             chiefe
             part
             of
             this
             controversie
             )
             and
             the
             Printed
             answer
             to
             the
             Nine
             questions
             ,
             and
             let
             that
             resolve
             the
             question
             ,
             who
             of
             us
             came
             first
             Volunteers
             into
             the
             field
             ;
             and
             if
             any
             through
             weaknesse
             ,
             or
             zeale
             without
             knowledge
             ,
             have
             been
             too
             clamorous
             to
             cry
             up
             New-England
             way
             ,
             with
             reproach
             to
             others
             ;
             wee
             desire
             the
             world
             to
             take
             notice
             ,
             that
             they
             have
             neither
             patent
             nor
             patterne
             from
             us
             so
             to
             doe
             ,
             who
             came
             not
             hither
             proudly
             to
             censure
             others
             ,
             but
             to
             reforme
             our
             owne
             .
          
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           II.
           
        
         
           
             
               Qu.
               1.
            
             
             That
             a
             stinted
             Forme
             of
             Prayer
             and
             set
             Liturgie
             i●
             unlawfull
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             THis
             Position
             cannot
             beare
             that
             meaning
             which
             you
             give
             it
             ,
             if
             you
             take
             it
             according
             to
             our
             minds
             ,
             and
             the
             plaine
             construction
             of
             the
             words
             .
             We
             never
             questioned
             why
             you
             made
             not
             use
             of
             a
             Liturgie
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Let
           our
           Answer
           bee
           viewed
           ,
           and
           it
           will
           appeare
           that
           wee
           had
           just
           cause
           to
           premise
           those
           distinctions
           of
           Formes
           of
           Prayer
           into
           private
           and
           publike
           ;
           and
           publike
           into
           such
           as
           are
           imposed
           by
           others
           ,
           or
           composed
           and
           used
           by
           Ministers
           themselves
           before
           their
           Sermons
           ;
           otherwise
           we
           must
           have
           involved
           such
           in
           the
           Position
           ,
           as
           wee
           doe
           not
           condemn
           .
           Now
           if
           your
           generall
           thesis
           justly
           admit
           such
           limitation
           to
           publike
           imposed
           Formes
           ,
           where
           shall
           wee
           finde
           any
           set
           stinted
           imposed
           Liturgies
           ,
           but
           in
           Churches
           of
           the
           Papacy
           or
           Prelacy
           ?
           no
           Reformed
           Churches
           stinting
           or
           imposing
           their
           Formes
           of
           Prayer
           ,
           but
           leaving
           Ministers
           and
           people
           at
           much
           liberty
           .
           Onely
           the
           English
           Liturgy
           therefore
           is
           such
           ,
           according
           to
           the
           plaine
           construction
           of
           the
           words
           .
        
         
           2
           Concerning
           your
           minds
           in
           the
           Position
           ,
           wee
           deny
           not
           but
           you
           might
           intend
           to
           draw
           from
           us
           an
           approbation
           of
           stinted
           Liturgies
           
           in
           generall
           ,
           that
           so
           you
           might
           have
           to
           stay
           the
           separation
           of
           people
           from
           your
           Liturgy
           ,
           whereof
           you
           complaine
           :
           but
           by
           that
           it
           appeares
           plainly
           ,
           what
           your
           chiefe
           scope
           and
           ayme
           was
           in
           the
           Position
           :
           according
           unto
           which
           wee
           thought
           it
           most
           safe
           and
           pertinent
           for
           us
           to
           answer
           .
           And
           this
           wee
           did
           the
           rather
           ,
           for
           our
           reason
           mentioned
           in
           our
           letter
           ,
           because
           though
           all
           of
           us
           could
           not
           concurre
           to
           condemne
           all
           set
           Formes
           as
           unlawfull
           ,
           yet
           wee
           could
           in
           this
           ,
           viz.
           that
           though
           some
           set
           Forms
           may
           bee
           lawfull
           ,
           yet
           it
           will
           not
           follow
           ,
           that
           this
           of
           the
           English
           Liturgy
           is
           ,
           therefore
           to
           remove
           all
           obscurities
           ,
           and
           breake
           all
           snares
           ,
           and
           resolve
           the
           question
           in
           the
           true
           intent
           of
           it
           ,
           wee
           were
           forced
           to
           distinguish
           of
           Formes
           ,
           and
           so
           touch
           the
           true
           Helena
           of
           this
           controversie
           ;
           and
           therefore
           if
           any
           shall
           narrowly
           observe
           Mr.
           Ball
           his
           large
           defence
           of
           set
           Forms
           in
           generall
           ,
           they
           shall
           finde
           those
           wings
           spread
           forth
           in
           a
           very
           great
           breadth
           ,
           to
           give
           some
           shelter
           and
           warmth
           to
           that
           particular
           Liturgie
           ,
           then
           languishing
           ,
           and
           hastening
           (
           through
           age
           and
           feeblenesse
           )
           towards
           its
           last
           end
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             true
             ,
             people
             separate
             from
             our
             Liturgie
             ,
             because
             stinted
             ,
             not
             because
             this
             ,
             or
             that
             ,
             or
             ours
             in
             particular
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           because
           it's
           stinted
           ,
           then
           because
           yours
           ,
           for
           we
           know
           none
           properly
           such
           ,
           but
           yours
           ,
           and
           it
           may
           well
           bee
           one
           offence
           to
           all
           godly
           consciences
           ,
           that
           yours
           are
           so
           imposed
           and
           stinted
           as
           they
           bee
           :
           though
           it
           is
           hardly
           credible
           to
           us
           ,
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           our
           observation
           reach
           )
           that
           the
           main
           causes
           of
           the
           godly
           withdrawing
           from
           your
           Liturgy
           ,
           should
           be
           the
           stinting
           of
           it
           ,
           when
           so
           many
           corruptions
           in
           Matter
           and
           Forme
           have
           been
           objected
           against
           it
           ,
           by
           the
           best
           godly
           Reformers
           .
           And
           seeing
           the
           same
           persons
           will
           joyne
           with
           Prayers
           of
           godly
           Preachers
           ,
           though
           they
           use
           the
           same
           forme
           of
           prayer
           usually
           ,
           and
           so
           in
           a
           large
           sense
           freely
           stinting
           themselves
           thereto
           ,
           though
           not
           properly
           in
           such
           sense
           as
           your
           Liturgy
           is
           stinted
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             But
             say
             you
             ,
             such
             set
             Formes
             used
             by
             Preachers
             are
             disliked
             also
             ,
             and
             your
             reasons
             ,
             especially
             the
             two
             last
             ,
             why
             you
             admit
             not
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             ,
             conclude
             against
             both
             in
             our
             understanding
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           deny
           not
           but
           some
           may
           dislike
           the
           constant
           use
           of
           such
           Formes
           ,
           especially
           when
           studiously
           framed
           with
           elegancy
           of
           phrases
           ,
           and
           as
           the
           manner
           of
           some
           is
           ;
           but
           doe
           any
           we
           now
           speak
           of
           ,
           condemne
           all
           use
           thereof
           ?
           or
           withdraw
           from
           them
           that
           use
           them
           ?
           which
           is
           now
           the
           case
           in
           hand
           :
           For
           our
           parts
           ,
           wee
           neither
           know
           such
           men
           ;
           or
           if
           we
           did
           ,
           we
           should
           condemn
           such
           minds
           .
           
           As
           for
           our
           Reasons
           in
           generall
           ,
           or
           the
           two
           last
           you
           mention
           in
           particular
           ,
           it
           passeth
           our
           understanding
           to
           conceive
           ,
           how
           any
           such
           inference
           can
           bee
           made
           ;
           if
           the
           Reply
           had
           formed
           the
           inferences
           from
           our
           arguments
           ,
           it
           may
           bee
           wee
           should
           have
           seene
           more
           by
           the
           helpe
           of
           such
           spectacles
           .
           But
           passing
           over
           what
           we
           say
           to
           the
           Position
           ,
           as
           we
           interpret
           it
           ,
           you
           think
           fit
           to
           advertise
           us
           of
           some
           things
           ,
           which
           are
           ●ix
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Advert
           .
           1.
           
           
             Your
             reasons
             why
             you
             accept
             not
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             ,
             are
             ambiguously
             propounded
             ,
             and
             so
             ,
             that
             such
             as
             looke
             at
             stinted
             Liturgies
             as
             images
             ,
             forbidden
             Command
             .
             2.
             may
             easily
             draw
             your
             words
             to
             their
             meaning
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           our
           Reasons
           themselves
           being
           sound
           ,
           and
           unanswered
           by
           you
           ,
           contain
           any
           thing
           that
           may
           be
           drawn
           to
           such
           a
           Position
           ;
           that
           cannot
           arise
           from
           the
           ambiguousnesse
           of
           words
           which
           are
           plaine
           ,
           but
           from
           their
           abuse
           who
           mis-apply
           them
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Advert
           .
           2.
           
           
             The
             Reasons
             you
             bring
             against
             a
             set
             forme
             of
             Prayer
             ,
             doe
             hold
             as
             strong
             against
             a
             set
             forme
             of
             Catechisme
             ,
             confession
             and
             profession
             of
             faith
             ,
             blessing
             ,
             baptizing
             ,
             and
             singing
             of
             Psalmes
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Concerning
           forms
           of
           Catechismes
           ,
           and
           confessions
           of
           Faith
           ,
           if
           religiously
           and
           perspicuously
           framed
           ,
           wee
           account
           them
           of
           singular
           use
           ,
           (
           though
           abused
           by
           men
           )
           nor
           without
           some
           sacred
           allowance
           :
           yet
           from
           hence
           to
           infer
           the
           like
           use
           of
           set
           Formes
           of
           prayers
           ,
           neither
           our
           reasons
           ,
           nor
           any
           other
           will
           in
           force
           :
           for
           Catechismes
           and
           Confessions
           (
           as
           well
           as
           Psalmes
           )
           in
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           thing
           ,
           require
           in
           some
           sense
           a
           set
           and
           limited
           Forme
           ;
           but
           publike
           prayers
           ,
           though
           they
           may
           admit
           of
           a
           set
           and
           comely
           order
           in
           the
           generall
           ,
           to
           prevent
           errour
           ;
           yet
           of
           their
           owne
           nature
           they
           require
           no
           set
           Forme
           ;
           for
           God
           gives
           us
           no
           new
           matter
           or
           doctrine
           daily
           to
           be
           beleeved
           ,
           but
           he
           gives
           new
           matter
           of
           new
           affection
           in
           prayer
           daily
           .
        
         
           2
           If
           by
           set
           Forms
           of
           Catechismes
           and
           Confessions
           ,
           bee
           meant
           (
           according
           to
           the
           termes
           of
           the
           Question
           )
           stinted
           Formes
           ,
           like
           stinted
           Liturgies
           ,
           
             i.
             e.
          
           beyond
           ,
           or
           short
           of
           which
           ,
           Ministers
           may
           not
           teach
           ,
           or
           Christians
           beleeve
           and
           professe
           ,
           then
           wee
           should
           say
           the
           same
           of
           these
           as
           wee
           doe
           of
           stinted
           Formes
           of
           Prayer
           ;
           wee
           confesse
           there
           is
           danger
           in
           casting
           by
           all
           Formes
           of
           Confessions
           and
           Catechismes
           ,
           lest
           through
           the
           instability
           of
           ungrounded
           and
           heady
           men
           ,
           pretending
           new
           light
           ,
           or
           searching
           after
           further
           light
           ,
           the
           Churches
           adhere
           to
           nothing
           :
           and
           their
           Faith
           (
           as
           the
           learned
           Leyden
           Professors
           terme
           it
           )
           become
           
             fides
             h●raria
          
           ,
           or
           
           menstrua
           ,
           The
           faith
           of
           an
           houre
           or
           moneth
           ,
           and
           then
           cast
           it
           off
           the
           next
           .
           And
           on
           the
           other
           side
           there
           is
           danger
           ,
           that
           by
           imposing
           such
           Confessions
           too
           far
           ,
           that
           which
           is
           indeed
           
             further
             light
          
           be
           supprest
           ;
           wee
           therefore
           thinke
           it
           usefull
           and
           needfull
           to
           pave
           out
           such
           high
           wayes
           of
           Catechismes
           and
           Confessions
           ,
           so
           as
           the
           subjects
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           our
           King
           and
           Law-giver
           may
           walke
           therein
           without
           shackles
           ,
           reserving
           liberty
           for
           further
           future
           light
           ,
           in
           points
           lesse
           cleare
           ,
           yet
           standing
           in
           a
           readinesse
           alwayes
           to
           confesse
           and
           hold
           fast
           the
           present
           truth
           which
           appeares
           most
           cleare
           .
        
         
           3
           Concerning
           Forms
           of
           blessing
           ,
           baptizing
           ,
           singing
           Scripture
           Psalmes
           ,
           there
           is
           a
           far
           differing
           reason
           from
           this
           case
           ,
           for
           the
           Lord
           himselfe
           hath
           left
           us
           Formes
           in
           these
           cases
           ,
           not
           onely
           for
           instruction
           ,
           but
           allowing
           the
           use
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           as
           Numb
           .
           6.
           23
           ,
           &c.
           
             Luke
             10.
             5.
             
             Matth.
             28.
             20.
             2
             
             Chron.
          
           29.
           30.
           and
           therefore
           such
           may
           bee
           used
           as
           hee
           hath
           left
           ;
           yet
           the
           Lord
           hath
           not
           imposed
           (
           some
           of
           these
           at
           least
           )
           to
           bee
           used
           alwayes
           and
           onely
           in
           his
           Churches
           ,
           much
           lesse
           doth
           hee
           allow
           any
           man
           to
           impose
           their
           own
           Forms
           upon
           his
           Churches
           ,
           or
           conforme
           to
           such
           as
           are
           tyrannously
           imposed
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Third
           Advert
           .
           
             We
             have
             not
             called
             you
             at
             this
             time
             to
             witnesse
             for
             ,
             or
             against
             the
             corruptions
             of
             the
             Common-prayer-book
             ,
             this
             you
             fall
             upon
             by
             straining
             the
             sense
             of
             our
             demands
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           have
           spoken
           to
           this
           before
           ,
           and
           we
           thinke
           whatsoever
           your
           intent
           and
           desire
           was
           ,
           yet
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           thing
           ,
           and
           the
           case
           it selfe
           gave
           us
           a
           just
           call
           to
           testifie
           against
           it
           ,
           especially
           seeing
           the
           corruptions
           then
           increased
           in
           England
           ,
           and
           the
           impositions
           were
           more
           rigid
           and
           violent
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             reasons
             you
             bring
             against
             the
             Communion-booke
             ,
             wee
             cannot
             approve
             them
             all
             ;
             the
             exceptions
             against
             it
             wee
             know
             ,
             but
             to
             esteem
             the
             whole
             for
             some
             corruptions
             found
             therein
             a
             Monument
             of
             Idolatry
             ,
             that
             we
             have
             not
             learned
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           Answer
           calls
           it
           not
           a
           Monument
           of
           Idolatry
           for
           some
           corruptions
           onely
           found
           in
           it
           ,
           though
           the
           corruptions
           in
           matter
           and
           manner
           ,
           bee
           objected
           as
           the
           first
           reason
           why
           wee
           used
           it
           not
           ;
           but
           being
           never
           commanded
           of
           God
           ,
           greatly
           abused
           unto
           Idolatry
           and
           superstition
           ,
           and
           o●
           no
           necessary
           use
           ,
           the
           same
           that
           was
           in
           Popery
           for
           substance
           ,
           which
           are
           the
           usuall
           arguments
           for
           abolishing
           Images
           ,
           Ceremonies
           ,
           and
           all
           Monuments
           of
           Idolatry
           ;
           and
           wee
           marvaile
           how
           any
           could
           passe
           over
           these
           things
           in
           the
           Answer
           which
           might
           evince
           it
           to
           bee
           a
           
           Monument
           of
           Idolatry
           ,
           as
           the
           argument
           of
           the
           Abridgement
           to
           which
           we
           referred
           ,
           doth
           prove
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             argument
             in
             the
             Abridgement
             used
             against
             conformity
             to
             the
             Ceremonies
             ,
             did
             not
             in
             the
             judgement
             of
             the
             Authors
             bold
             against
             the
             Liturgie
             ,
             of
             which
             judgement
             we
             are
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           matters
           not
           whether
           they
           saw
           so
           far
           ,
           and
           so
           judged
           ,
           if
           indeed
           the
           reason
           and
           nature
           of
           Ceremonies
           ,
           and
           the
           book
           be
           the
           same
           ;
           for
           the
           first
           Reformers
           thought
           their
           arguments
           strong
           against
           oyle
           ,
           creame
           ,
           and
           spittle
           ,
           &c.
           in
           Baptisme
           ,
           but
           saw
           not
           that
           they
           would
           hold
           against
           the
           Crosse
           ,
           Surplice
           ,
           &c.
           as
           well
           ;
           yet
           we
           doubt
           not
           but
           the
           Reverend
           Author
           did
           judge
           of
           all
           in
           the
           same
           manner
           ;
           and
           so
           it
           is
           in
           this
           case
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Advert
           .
           4.
           
           
             If
             these
             reasons
             bee
             intended
             onely
             to
             shew
             why
             you
             receive
             not
             our
             forme
             of
             administration
             ,
             it
             is
             that
             which
             wee
             are
             perswaded
             you
             know
             we
             never
             required
             of
             you
             ,
             if
             to
             disallow
             the
             use
             of
             the
             Book
             amongst
             us
             altogether
             in
             things
             lawfull
             ,
             good
             ,
             and
             pertinent
             ,
             they
             will
             not
             hold
             weight
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Wee
           were
           told
           in
           the
           first
           Epistle
           of
           our
           Reverend
           and
           deare
           Brethren
           ,
           that
           whiles
           wee
           lived
           in
           England
           ,
           wee
           joyned
           in
           the
           same
           Ordinances
           and
           purity
           of
           worship
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           might
           have
           some
           just
           cause
           to
           cleare
           up
           our
           differing
           practise
           from
           disusing
           that
           forme
           of
           Administration
           there
           ,
           considering
           that
           our
           differing
           practise
           might
           occasion
           others
           to
           rend
           off
           from
           your
           Administrations
           there
           ,
           whereof
           you
           complain
           .
        
         
           2
           We
           doubt
           not
           but
           in
           the
           Popish
           Forms
           of
           Masse
           ,
           Matten
           ,
           and
           Evensong
           ,
           &c.
           some
           things
           lawfull
           ,
           good
           ,
           and
           pertinent
           may
           bee
           found
           ,
           yet
           would
           not
           the
           godly
           allow
           these
           very
           reasons
           wee
           alledge
           in
           the
           Answer
           sufficient
           to
           refuse
           the
           whole
           Forme
           ,
           and
           so
           those
           good
           and
           lawfull
           things
           in
           that
           Forme
           ?
           as
           that
           they
           are
           devised
           by
           men
           ,
           without
           the
           command
           of
           God
           ,
           imposed
           by
           an
           Antichristian
           power
           ,
           abused
           to
           Idolatry
           and
           Superstition
           ,
           wherein
           the
           people
           place
           much
           holinesse
           ,
           and
           necessity
           ,
           full
           of
           scandall
           ,
           &c.
           and
           if
           these
           Reasons
           do
           not
           hold
           against
           this
           Forme
           in
           the
           Communion
           booke
           ,
           the
           Reply
           should
           have
           acquited
           it
           from
           them
           :
           or
           else
           the
           consequence
           must
           bee
           yeelded
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           as
           in
           the
           other
           ,
           notwithstanding
           all
           the
           good
           and
           pertinent
           things
           therein
           .
           
             John
             Sim●son
          
           ,
           and
           
             John
             Ardly
          
           Martyrs
           in
           Q.
           Maries
           dayes
           ,
           and
           faithfull
           Witnesses
           ,
           made
           answer
           to
           the
           sixt
           article
           of
           Bonner
           ,
           concerning
           the
           Masse
           ,
           that
           't
           is
           of
           the
           Pope
           ,
           not
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           therefore
           not
           good
           ,
           not
           
           having
           in
           it
           any
           goodnesse
           ,
           saving
           
             Gloria
             in
             excelsis
          
           ,
           the
           Epistles
           and
           Gospels
           ,
           the
           Creed
           and
           Pater
           Noster
           ;
           and
           for
           this
           cause
           (
           they
           said
           )
           they
           have
           not
           ,
           nor
           will
           not
           come
           to
           heare
           Masse
           :
           the
           same
           answer
           was
           made
           by
           six
           more
           in
           those
           dayes
           ,
           mentioned
           by
           Mr.
           Fox
           .
           If
           therefore
           corrupt
           Formes
           may
           bee
           used
           because
           of
           some
           things
           good
           and
           lawfull
           mixt
           with
           them
           ,
           there
           should
           have
           been
           shewn
           us
           some
           proofe
           for
           it
           ,
           but
           if
           the
           meaning
           bee
           ,
           that
           there
           may
           bee
           a
           lawfull
           use
           of
           those
           things
           which
           are
           lawfull
           and
           good
           in
           it
           :
           wee
           say
           so
           too
           ,
           (
           due
           circumstances
           of
           their
           use
           being
           observed
           )
           but
           then
           wee
           fall
           off
           from
           the
           question
           between
           us
           ;
           otherwise
           wee
           know
           that
           things
           lawfull
           and
           good
           in
           themselves
           ,
           yet
           (
           not
           duly
           circumstantiated
           )
           may
           be
           evill
           and
           scandalous
           in
           their
           use
           .
           Heare
           what
           Paul
           saith
           ,
           it
           was
           lawfull
           for
           Paul
           to
           eate
           some
           kindes
           of
           meat
           ,
           yet
           if
           it
           maketh
           my
           brother
           offend
           ,
           I
           will
           eate
           no
           flesh
           whiles
           the
           world
           standeth
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           8.
           13.
           
           Heare
           what
           the
           Authors
           of
           the
           second
           admonition
           to
           the
           Parliament
           say
           ,
           in
           Queen
           Elizabeths
           dayes
           ,
           the
           Booke
           of
           Common-prayer
           ,
           which
           of
           all
           others
           must
           not
           bee
           touched
           ,
           because
           they
           have
           gotten
           the
           State
           to
           beare
           it
           out
           ,
           yet
           hee
           hath
           but
           a
           bad
           conscience
           ,
           that
           in
           this
           time
           will
           hold
           his
           peace
           ,
           and
           not
           speake
           it
           for
           feare
           of
           trouble
           ;
           knowing
           that
           there
           are
           such
           intolerable
           abuses
           in
           it
           :
           if
           there
           were
           never
           an
           ill
           word
           or
           sentence
           in
           all
           the
           Prayers
           ,
           yet
           to
           appoint
           it
           to
           bee
           used
           ,
           or
           to
           use
           it
           ,
           as
           the
           Papists
           did
           their
           Mattens
           and
           Evensong
           ,
           as
           a
           fit
           service
           to
           God
           ,
           though
           the
           words
           bee
           good
           ,
           yet
           the
           use
           is
           naught
           .
           But
           if
           this
           seem
           too
           sharpe
           ,
           heare
           what
           —
           a
           late
           godly
           and
           learned
           
           Writer
           speakes
           ,
           
             Rejicimus
             ill
             as
             precum
             ,
             cultusque
             publici
             formulas
             ,
             quae
             tyrannide
             quâdam
             ,
             conscientiis
             hominum
             ,
             ut
             ●ultus
             divini
             partes
             essentiales
             impo●●ntur
             ;
             quamvis
             quoad
             materiam
             sunt
             legitime
             dispositae
             ,
             quoad
             formam
             &
             modum
             tamen
             quo
             inducuntur
             ,
             illegitima
             crudelit●tis
             instrumenta
             fiunt
             ,
             &
             praetextus
             improbae
             malitiae
             &
             occasiones
             violentae
             tyrannidis
             in
             dignissimos
             &
             optimos
             Ecclesiae
             filios
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Advert
           .
           5.
           
           
             You
             are
             generally
             (
             you
             say
             )
             loath
             to
             meddle
             with
             the
             affaires
             of
             other
             Churches
             ,
             unlesse
             necessarily
             called
             thereunto
             :
             but
             when
             some
             upon
             request
             (
             as
             we
             suppose
             )
             of
             private
             friends
             ,
             and
             others
             out
             of
             their
             zeal
             and
             forwardnesse
             have
             laboured
             to
             draw
             many
             to
             separate
             from
             the
             sacrament
             ,
             because
             ministred
             in
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             ,
             wee
             cannot
             apprehend
             any
             just
             ground
             of
             this
             Apologie
             ;
             the
             rent
             is
             wide
             ,
             and
             some
             brethren
             bad
             their
             hands
             deep
             therein
             ,
             which
             made
             u●
             crave
             your
             judgements
             and
             the
             reasons
             thereof
             ,
             to
             make
             up
             the
             breach
             .
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           What
           you
           impute
           to
           some
           ,
           if
           justly
           ,
           wee
           grant
           will
           not
           allow
           this
           apologie
           to
           bee
           generall
           for
           all
           ;
           but
           how
           many
           that
           some
           is
           ,
           or
           who
           we
           know
           not
           ,
           it
           may
           bee
           one
           or
           two
           ;
           and
           if
           so
           ,
           one
           or
           two
           exceptions
           will
           not
           much
           infringe
           a
           generall
           rule
           ,
           nor
           hinder
           this
           generall
           apology
           .
        
         
           2
           If
           such
           brethren
           had
           a
           necessary
           Call
           to
           speake
           or
           write
           what
           they
           did
           ,
           it
           hindreth
           not
           our
           apologie
           at
           all
           :
           the
           desire
           of
           private
           friends
           ,
           which
           you
           onely
           suppose
           the
           moving
           cause
           ,
           might
           bee
           very
           weighty
           ,
           the
           satisfying
           of
           tender
           consciences
           of
           neare
           friends
           ,
           or
           such
           as
           once
           depended
           upon
           our
           Ministery
           ,
           in
           such
           a
           time
           of
           pressing
           humane
           inventions
           upon
           men
           ,
           as
           that
           was
           ;
           might
           bee
           a
           very
           urgent
           call
           to
           interpose
           :
           but
           that
           any
           have
           endeavoured
           out
           of
           zeale
           to
           draw
           many
           to
           separation
           from
           the
           Sacrament
           ,
           upon
           such
           a
           ground
           as
           you
           say
           ;
           as
           we
           utterly
           dislike
           such
           fire
           upon
           the
           top
           of
           the
           house
           ,
           so
           it
           must
           be
           proved
           ,
           before
           we
           can
           call
           to
           minde
           or
           acknowledge
           any
           such
           thing
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Advert
           .
           6.
           
           J.
           D.
           
             object
             to
             Mr.
          
           P.
           
             that
             his
             manner
             of
             preaching
          
           (
           proceeding
           
             it
             should
             be
             )
             was
             disorderly
             ,
             in
             carrying
             to
             the
             Classis
             a
             matter
             ,
             before
             hee
             had
             declared
             it
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             &c.
             and
             may
             not
             we
             with
             like
             reason
             object
             that
             this
             manner
             of
             proceeding
             is
             disorderly
             ,
             in
             seeking
             to
             draw
             men
             to
             separation
             ,
             because
             of
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             ,
             before
             you
             had
             shewed
             us
             or
             other
             Brethren
             ,
             whom
             it
             may
             concren
             ,
             by
             Scripture
             ,
             or
             reasons
             that
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             is
             unlawfull
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           What
           
             J.
             D.
          
           objects
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           tell
           ,
           seeing
           you
           neither
           quote
           the
           place
           ,
           nor
           the
           Printer
           give
           us
           his
           words
           in
           any
           way
           to
           make
           sense
           ;
           but
           so
           far
           as
           we
           guesse
           at
           the
           meaning
           ,
           the
           case
           is
           very
           wide
           from
           this
           in
           hand
           .
           
             J.
             D.
          
           might
           justly
           complaine
           of
           wrong
           offered
           to
           him
           and
           the
           Church
           ,
           in
           neglecting
           them
           ,
           to
           goe
           immediately
           to
           the
           Classis
           ,
           and
           yet
           some
           of
           our
           Brethren
           ,
           at
           the
           requests
           of
           tender
           consciences
           ,
           might
           declare
           their
           judgement
           ,
           when
           no
           rule
           called
           them
           to
           write
           to
           their
           Pastors
           ,
           which
           perhaps
           ,
           were
           bitter
           persecutors
           ,
           or
           if
           better
           ,
           yet
           such
           as
           they
           had
           no
           knowledge
           of
           ;
           and
           if
           any
           by
           such
           writings
           did
           abstaine
           from
           the
           sacrament
           for
           such
           corruptions
           ,
           as
           their
           consciences
           would
           be
           defiled
           with
           ,
           no
           hinderance
           from
           us
           was
           in
           the
           way
           ,
           but
           that
           you
           might
           call
           them
           to
           account
           before
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           convince
           and
           censure
           them
           ,
           if
           there
           were
           just
           cause
           ;
           which
           was
           the
           objection
           against
           Mr.
           P.
           in
           flying
           presently
           to
           the
           Classis
           .
        
      
       
         
         
           CHAP.
           III.
           
        
         
           
             2
             Position
             .
          
           
             That
             it
             is
             not
             lawfull
             to
             joyne
             in
             Prayer
             ,
             or
             receive
             the
             Sacraments
             ,
             where
             a
             stinted
             Liturgie
             is
             used
             :
             Or
             ,
             as
             wee
             conceive
             your
             meaning
             to
             bee
             in
             this
             as
             in
             the
             former
             ,
             &c.
             viz.
             where
             and
             when
             that
             stinted
             Liturgie
             is
             used
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             IF
             we
             mistake
             not
             your
             judgement
             and
             practise
             both
             ,
             you
             have
             born
             witnesse
             against
             both
             that
             you
             call
             the
             rigid
             separation
             ,
             and
             this
             more
             moderate
             also
             ;
             and
             wee
             humbly
             wish
             that
             the
             moderate
             doe
             not
             degenerate
             into
             the
             rigid
             ere
             long
             ;
             it
             is
             very
             strange
             if
             they
             take
             not
             great
             encouragement
             upon
             your
             grounds
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           you
           will
           needs
           account
           not
           joyning
           in
           that
           stinted
           imposed
           Liturgy
           ,
           to
           bee
           a
           moderate
           separation
           ,
           wee
           must
           confesse
           ,
           we
           have
           witnessed
           against
           such
           separation
           ;
           yea
           ,
           not
           onely
           conformed
           to
           that
           corrupt
           Worship
           ,
           but
           also
           to
           divers
           of
           the
           Ceremonies
           thereof
           ,
           some
           of
           us
           with
           shame
           before
           the
           Lord
           may
           confesse
           it
           :
           But
           we
           desire
           that
           may
           be
           no
           prejudice
           to
           the
           truth
           since
           discovered
           to
           us
           :
           but
           wee
           have
           ever
           conceived
           ,
           that
           the
           separation
           witnessed
           against
           ,
           both
           by
           your selves
           and
           us
           ,
           have
           been
           such
           as
           to
           separate
           from
           the
           Churches
           of
           England
           as
           no
           true
           Churches
           ,
           the
           Ministery
           ,
           as
           no
           true
           Ministery
           :
           their
           separations
           from
           corruptions
           in
           Doctrine
           and
           Worship
           ,
           their
           endeavour
           to
           enjoy
           all
           the
           ordinances
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           in
           purity
           ,
           if
           wee
           bee
           not
           mistaken
           ,
           your
           judgement
           and
           practise
           with
           ours
           ,
           have
           alwayes
           approved
           ;
           and
           the
           question
           now
           in
           hand
           is
           not
           about
           a
           new
           kinde
           of
           separation
           more
           moderate
           ,
           from
           the
           Churches
           and
           Ministery
           of
           England
           ;
           but
           whether
           the
           Liturgy
           of
           England
           be
           not
           indeed
           one
           of
           those
           corruptions
           in
           Worship
           ,
           which
           you
           and
           wee
           had
           need
           reject
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           ceremonies
           ,
           and
           no
           longer
           conforme
           to
           the
           same
           .
           And
           wee
           heartily
           wish
           that
           the
           growing
           endeavours
           of
           the
           godly
           ,
           after
           more
           purity
           of
           Worship
           ,
           and
           to
           bee
           purged
           from
           all
           the
           pollutions
           of
           the
           man
           of
           sinne
           ,
           bee
           not
           too
           rashly
           branded
           with
           the
           odium
           of
           separation
           :
           and
           breach
           of
           peace
           and
           unity
           of
           the
           Church
           .
           As
           for
           degenerating
           into
           the
           rigid
           separation
           ,
           wee
           think
           you
           need
           not
           feare
           it
           ,
           upon
           our
           principles
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           upon
           the
           common
           grounds
           of
           Non-conformists
           ,
           and
           you
           know
           what
           they
           inferre
           upon
           those
           principles
           ,
           
           now
           justly
           it
           concernes
           you
           to
           consider
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           us
           ;
           but
           as
           it
           is
           truly
           observed
           in
           England
           ,
           it
           was
           the
           justification
           and
           pressing
           of
           ceremonies
           and
           other
           corruptions
           ,
           that
           drave
           many
           to
           separation
           ,
           not
           the
           endeavour
           of
           further
           Reformation
           ;
           so
           you
           may
           feare
           ,
           the
           too
           too
           much
           conformity
           of
           Ministers
           to
           humane
           impositions
           ,
           and
           justification
           of
           the
           Liturgie
           ,
           &c.
           have
           and
           will
           more
           dangerously
           alienate
           godly
           minds
           from
           your
           Churches
           and
           Ministery
           ,
           and
           so
           drive
           to
           separation
           ;
           then
           all
           the
           principles
           and
           progresse
           of
           the
           godly
           in
           wayes
           of
           reformations
           :
           and
           wee
           shall
           refer
           it
           to
           the
           judicious
           and
           common
           experience
           ,
           whether
           the
           discovery
           of
           the
           corrupt
           worship
           in
           the
           Liturgy
           ,
           or
           contrary
           conformity
           to
           it
           ,
           be
           the
           greater
           block
           of
           offence
           ,
           and
           strengthens
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Separatists
           most
           ,
           which
           yet
           you
           after
           object
           unto
           us
           .
        
         
           Wee
           suppose
           the
           Worthies
           of
           this
           renowned
           Parliament
           ,
           together
           with
           those
           of
           the
           reverend
           Assembly
           ,
           would
           not
           so
           soone
           have
           removed
           the
           whole
           frame
           and
           fabrick
           of
           this
           Book
           ,
           nor
           wholly
           stopped
           up
           this
           pit
           ,
           if
           building
           of
           battlements
           about
           it
           ,
           and
           keeping
           watchmen
           neare
           it
           ,
           to
           bid
           passengers
           take
           heed
           ,
           had
           been
           the
           readiest
           way
           to
           cure
           separation
           :
           nor
           doe
           wee
           thinke
           that
           this
           reverend
           man
           of
           God
           ,
           would
           have
           been
           in
           more
           jealousie
           and
           feare
           of
           us
           (
           if
           hee
           had
           considered
           how
           tenderly
           we
           returned
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           question
           )
           then
           of
           those
           faithfull
           witnesses
           in
           Scotland
           ,
           who
           separated
           their
           lives
           into
           the
           hands
           of
           death
           ,
           rather
           then
           communicate
           in
           the
           use
           of
           this
           Booke
           ;
           and
           yet
           wee
           thinke
           they
           deserve
           a
           better
           place
           ,
           then
           to
           bee
           ranked
           so
           neare
           to
           the
           rigid
           separation
           ;
           notwithstanding
           for
           our selves
           we
           are
           heartily
           thankfull
           for
           what
           he
           humbly
           wisheth
           ,
           and
           for
           his
           jealousie
           over
           us
           so
           farre
           as
           it
           is
           godly
           ;
           but
           so
           farre
           as
           such
           wishes
           cast
           a
           cloud
           of
           evill
           suspition
           over
           us
           in
           the
           hearts
           of
           others
           ,
           as
           if
           we
           were
           going
           faster
           then
           we
           knew
           where
           to
           stay
           ,
           we
           wish
           humbly
           such
           words
           had
           been
           spared
           till
           some
           other
           time
           .
        
         
           Concerning
           this
           distinction
           ,
           a
           letter
           of
           this
           subject
           is
           cited
           ,
           printed
           without
           the
           Authors
           knowledge
           ,
           that
           put
           a
           difference
           indeed
           between
           the
           reasons
           of
           the
           Separatists
           proper
           to
           them
           
             qua
             tales
          
           ,
           and
           other
           reasons
           used
           by
           himself
           ,
           common
           to
           others
           studious
           of
           Reformation
           .
           To
           which
           we
           answer
           .
        
         
           1
           That
           letter
           acknowledgeth
           no
           such
           distinction
           of
           separation
           ,
           rigid
           ,
           and
           moderate
           ,
           onely
           (
           if
           you
           will
           )
           a
           separation
           from
           Churches
           ,
           and
           separation
           from
           the
           sins
           and
           corruptions
           of
           Churches
           ,
           which
           latter
           is
           all
           we
           professe
           .
        
         
         
           2
           Those
           Reasons
           which
           the
           letter
           ascribes
           to
           them
           ,
           
             qua
             tales
          
           ,
           will
           wee
           suppose
           bee
           found
           in
           their
           Books
           thus
           farre
           ,
           that
           the
           Prayers
           ,
           Preachings
           ,
           Sacraments
           ,
           &c.
           are
           unlawfull
           ,
           because
           offered
           in
           a
           false
           Church
           by
           a
           false
           Ministery
           for
           the
           subjects
           of
           Antichrists
           kingdome
           .
        
         
           
             That
             there
             should
             be
             no
             Separatists
             in
             the
             world
             ,
             because
             none
             ,
             it
             is
             said
             none
             ,
             pl●ad
             against
             the
             Booke
             of
             Common-prayer
             as
             unlawfull
             ,
             because
             offered
             up
             in
             a
             false
             Church
          
           ;
           is
           strange
           to
           us
           ,
           that
           this
           learned
           Author
           should
           not
           read
           or
           observe
           the
           same
           ,
           exceeding
           frequently
           in
           the
           Separatists
           writings
           ;
           take
           but
           a
           taste
           in
           the
           first
           pages
           of
           Mr.
           Smith
           against
           Bernard
           in
           his
           parallels
           ,
           censures
           ,
           and
           observations
           ,
           his
           words
           pag.
           9.
           are
           these
           ,
           Hee
           would
           prove
           that
           an
           erroneous
           constitution
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           is
           a
           reall
           Idol
           ;
           and
           the
           prayers
           they
           offer
           with
           the
           prayers
           of
           the
           wicked
           ,
           comming
           from
           that
           false
           constitution
           ,
           are
           tainted
           with
           the
           Idolatry
           of
           that
           constitution
           .
           And
           pag.
           10.
           
           It
           is
           Idolatry
           to
           offer
           up
           service
           to
           God
           in
           a
           Church
           of
           a
           false
           constitution
           .
           And
           pag.
           13.
           
           Tell
           mee
           Mr.
           Bernard
           ,
           can
           there
           be
           a
           true
           Ministery
           ,
           true
           baptisme
           ,
           true
           faith
           ,
           true
           prayer
           ,
           true
           preaching
           and
           administring
           the
           supper
           ,
           true
           excommunication
           ,
           in
           a
           Church
           which
           is
           falsly
           constituted
           ?
           Did
           the
           Lord
           accept
           the
           sacrifice
           of
           the
           Church
           constituted
           by
           Jeroboam
           ?
           so
           page
           14.
           
           A
           Church
           falsly
           constituted
           ,
           is
           not
           accepted
           of
           God
           ,
           neither
           are
           their
           actions
           ecclesiasticall
           ,
           as
           prayer
           ,
           preaching
           ,
           &c.
           acceptable
           in
           the
           sight
           of
           God.
           And
           againe
           ,
           a
           false
           Ministery
           ,
           Worship
           ,
           government
           ,
           may
           bee
           in
           a
           true
           Church
           ,
           through
           ignorance
           ,
           and
           the
           like
           :
           but
           a
           true
           Ministery
           ,
           worship
           ,
           government
           cannot
           possibly
           bee
           in
           a
           false
           Church
           .
           We
           thinke
           it
           needlesse
           to
           recite
           more
           testimonies
           ;
           
             Aliquando
             bonus
             dormitat
             Homerus
          
           ,
           A
           good
           memory
           may
           sometimes
           fall
           asleep
           ,
           and
           not
           see
           that
           ,
           which
           is
           sometimes
           most
           obvious
           and
           visible
           .
           But
           what
           other
           arguments
           they
           have
           ,
           are
           ,
           or
           may
           bee
           common
           to
           others
           studious
           of
           Reformation
           ,
           as
           their
           arguments
           against
           ceremonies
           are
           common
           with
           Non-conformists
           ,
           and
           therefore
           if
           some
           of
           our
           grounds
           bee
           found
           in
           them
           ,
           it
           doth
           not
           follow
           ,
           they
           are
           shafts
           taken
           out
           of
           the
           same
           quiver
           ,
           and
           peculiar
           to
           them
           ,
           as
           you
           object
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Th●se
             reasons
             shall
             be
             common
             to
             all
             ,
             that
             plead
             for
             the
             purity
             of
             Gods
             Ordinances
             ,
             which
             were
             never
             taken
             to
             bee
             sound
             and
             true
             ,
             either
             by
             the
             Reformed
             Churches
             abroad
             ,
             or
             by
             the
             godly
             Brethren
             at
             home
             ,
             dead
             or
             living
             ,
             or
             yet
             by
             the
             most
             of
             the
             Brethren
             amongst
             whom
             they
             live
             ,
             and
             hold
             society
             ,
             or
             by
             any
             Minister
             and
             society
             holding
             the
             unity
             of
             the
          
           
           
             Spirit
             in
             the
             bond
             of
             peace
             ,
             these
             1400.
             years
             and
             upward
             ,
             unlesse
             within
             these
             few
             dayes
             ,
             and
             that
             by
             a
             few
             onely
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Here
           is
           a
           great
           colour
           of
           Novelty
           and
           singularity
           objected
           to
           be
           in
           the
           grounds
           and
           reasons
           of
           the
           Letter
           ,
           used
           against
           conformity
           to
           the
           Liturgy
           :
           but
           it
           is
           easie
           to
           conceive
           that
           the
           same
           common
           grounds
           of
           all
           Reformers
           ,
           may
           be
           justly
           carryed
           on
           against
           such
           further
           corruptions
           ,
           as
           they
           never
           saw
           :
           not
           attending
           their
           owne
           principles
           in
           such
           particulars
           ,
           as
           was
           said
           before
           of
           the
           first
           Reformers
           ,
           that
           purged
           out
           salt
           ,
           creame
           ,
           oyle
           ,
           &c.
           not
           the
           crosse
           ,
           &c.
           and
           so
           here
           it
           may
           fall
           out
           ,
           that
           as
           the
           Lord
           is
           pleased
           to
           let
           in
           more
           light
           in
           this
           or
           that
           particular
           corruption
           ;
           so
           upon
           common
           grounds
           it
           is
           rejected
           ,
           though
           yet
           but
           one
           or
           few
           apply
           those
           grounds
           to
           such
           a
           particular
           case
           .
           Neither
           here
           was
           the
           number
           so
           few
           as
           is
           pretended
           ,
           when
           this
           Reply
           was
           drawn
           up
           ,
           or
           else
           at
           least
           ,
           it
           is
           much
           increased
           of
           late
           time
           ,
           since
           the
           Assembly
           and
           Parliament
           in
           England
           have
           so
           openly
           in
           their
           Directory
           witnessed
           against
           such
           stinted
           Formes
           ,
           and
           generally
           the
           Churches
           of
           Scotland
           renounced
           that
           Liturgy
           of
           yours
           ,
           as
           a
           piece
           of
           Popery
           .
           Besides
           all
           the
           Orthodox
           Churches
           in
           New-England
           ,
           and
           Holland
           ,
           and
           many
           godly
           in
           England
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             As
             yet
             wee
             thinke
             most
             of
             them
             ,
             that
             have
             separated
             are
             not
             so
             farre
             gone
             ,
             as
             to
             condemne
             all
             our
             Assemblies
             as
             no
             Churches
             of
             Christ
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           By
           this
           you
           seeme
           to
           insinuate
           ,
           that
           notwithstanding
           our
           acknowledgement
           of
           your
           Churches
           and
           Ministery
           ,
           wee
           may
           justly
           bee
           accounted
           amongst
           those
           wee
           properly
           call
           Separatists
           :
           but
           it
           is
           but
           your
           thought
           of
           most
           of
           them
           ,
           without
           ground
           ,
           contrary
           to
           their
           generall
           profession
           in
           their
           publique
           confessions
           and
           apologies
           .
           And
           therefore
           we
           see
           no
           reason
           of
           it
           ,
           or
           that
           it
           toucheth
           us
           ;
           but
           passing
           these
           generalls
           ,
           let
           us
           come
           to
           the
           matter
           more
           particularly
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Your
             judgement
             concerning
             the
             Position
             ,
             you
             deliver
             in
             three
             Propositions
             (
             for
             so
             many
             they
             bee
             for
             substance
             )
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             persons
             reading
             the
             Liturgie
             ,
             or
             the
             thing
             it selfe
             that
             is
             read
             ;
             as
             if
             any
             part
             of
             the
             Liturgie
             be
             read
             (
             put
             case
             some
             few
             select
             prayers
             onely
             )
             by
             an
             unable
             and
             ungodly
             Minister
             ,
             it
             is
             unlawfull
             (
             say
             you
             )
             for
             the
             people
             to
             joyne
             in
             that
             case
             .
             But
             if
             unlawfull
             for
             the
             people
             to
             joyne
             ,
             when
             an
             ungodly
             Minister
             readeth
             some
             few
             select
             prayers
             ,
             it
             is
             either
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             Minister
             ,
             or
             the
             prayers
             themselves
             ;
             not
             of
             the
             Prayers
             themselves
             ,
             for
             they
             be
             select
             and
             choyce
             ,
             faultlesse
             ,
             in
             respect
             of
             matter
          
           
           
             and
             manner
             ,
             as
             is
             taken
             for
             granted
             ,
             unlesse
             this
             distribution
             bee
             to
             no
             purpose
             ;
             if
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             Minister
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             not
             lawfull
             to
             joyne
             with
             such
             an
             one
             ,
             in
             any
             ordinance
             of
             God
             whatsoever
             .
          
        
         
           In
           that
           you
           analyse
           our
           two
           Propositions
           into
           three
           ,
           we
           shall
           not
           contend
           ,
           but
           follow
           your
           method
           ,
           yet
           wee
           cannot
           but
           marvaile
           at
           the
           liberty
           that
           is
           taken
           in
           stating
           the
           first
           Proposition
           ,
           both
           leaving
           out
           and
           adding
           such
           things
           as
           will
           not
           stand
           with
           the
           termes
           in
           our
           Answer
           ;
           and
           indeed
           this
           is
           too
           frequent
           in
           divers
           places
           of
           this
           Reply
           ,
           which
           gives
           a
           great
           colour
           of
           strength
           unto
           the
           arguments
           ;
           but
           when
           they
           come
           to
           be
           scanned
           ,
           it
           will
           discover
           the
           impertinency
           of
           them
           .
        
         
           For
           ,
           1
           Although
           the
           Answer
           distinguisheth
           of
           the
           Liturgie
           ,
           either
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           or
           of
           some
           select
           prayers
           which
           may
           bee
           conceived
           to
           bee
           lesse
           offensive
           ,
           yet
           the
           application
           of
           this
           of
           select
           prayers
           ,
           is
           onely
           made
           in
           the
           second
           proposition
           of
           the
           Answer
           ,
           no
           way
           intended
           in
           the
           first
           .
           Neither
           doth
           the
           Answer
           confesse
           those
           prayers
           ,
           as
           you
           say
           ,
           to
           bee
           choyce
           and
           faultlesse
           for
           matter
           and
           manner
           ,
           but
           which
           may
           bee
           conceived
           lesse
           offensive
           .
        
         
           2
           Whereas
           the
           Proposition
           is
           of
           an
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           Minister
           ,
           such
           unlearned
           Idol-Priests
           that
           are
           countenanced
           and
           established
           by
           the
           Liturgie
           ,
           and
           can
           doe
           no
           more
           then
           read
           the
           same
           ,
           to
           the
           unspeakable
           hazard
           and
           ruine
           of
           a
           multitude
           of
           soules
           ;
           you
           carry
           along
           your
           arguments
           onely
           in
           the
           terme
           of
           an
           ungodly
           Minister
           ,
           which
           leaves
           out
           one
           chiefe
           ground
           of
           our
           proposition
           ,
           viz.
           unable
           .
        
         
           To
           reduce
           therefore
           this
           proposition
           unto
           its
           true
           state
           which
           the
           answer
           puts
           it
           in
           ,
           which
           is
           thus
           ,
           If
           the
           question
           bee
           of
           joyning
           in
           prayer
           with
           ,
           and
           when
           that
           whole
           Liturgie
           is
           read
           ,
           or
           where
           that
           which
           is
           used
           ,
           (
           viz.
           though
           not
           the
           whole
           )
           is
           read
           by
           an
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           Minister
           :
           wee
           see
           not
           how
           it
           can
           bee
           lawfull
           to
           joyne
           ,
           &c.
           where
           that
           which
           is
           read
           by
           an
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           Minister
           ,
           cannot
           have
           reference
           to
           the
           select
           prayers
           ,
           but
           onely
           was
           put
           in
           ,
           to
           reach
           the
           whole
           case
           ,
           lest
           any
           should
           say
           ,
           may
           we
           not
           joyne
           ,
           therefore
           if
           they
           read
           not
           all
           ,
           (
           as
           sometimes
           such
           doe
           not
           ,
           for
           haste
           to
           the
           Alehouse
           ,
           Beare-baitings
           ,
           &c.
           )
           And
           the
           case
           is
           so
           well
           known
           to
           our selves
           and
           others
           ,
           what
           the
           manner
           of
           such
           Priests
           is
           ,
           how
           farre
           they
           are
           from
           making
           any
           choyce
           of
           select
           prayers
           :
           or
           having
           any
           skill
           indeed
           so
           to
           doe
           ;
           that
           if
           any
           bee
           more
           superstitious
           then
           others
           ,
           they
           would
           
           soonest
           choose
           them
           ;
           so
           that
           it
           was
           farre
           from
           our
           thoughts
           to
           impute
           it
           to
           them
           ,
           to
           read
           the
           select
           prayers
           onely
           .
           The
           question
           being
           rightly
           stated
           ,
           the
           argument
           will
           halt
           very
           much
           ;
           For
           wee
           say
           ,
           it
           is
           unlawfull
           in
           both
           respects
           ,
           and
           the
           rather
           ,
           when
           jointly
           considered
           ;
           and
           therefore
           you
           should
           first
           have
           justified
           the
           whole
           Liturgy
           ,
           or
           so
           much
           as
           such
           Idol-Priests
           use
           to
           read
           to
           bee
           lawfull
           ,
           and
           also
           the
           standing
           and
           calling
           of
           those
           men
           ,
           before
           the
           argument
           can
           hold
           ,
           both
           which
           you
           have
           wholly
           left
           naked
           without
           proofe
           ,
           and
           argue
           onely
           about
           the
           lawfulnesse
           of
           joyning
           with
           an
           ungodly
           Minister
           in
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           which
           will
           not
           reach
           this
           case
           .
           If
           one
           should
           affirme
           it
           is
           unlawfull
           to
           goe
           to
           Mattens
           or
           Evensong
           ,
           when
           the
           whole
           is
           read
           ,
           or
           that
           which
           is
           read
           ,
           is
           done
           by
           a
           popish
           Priest
           ,
           and
           you
           should
           answer
           then
           ,
           it
           is
           either
           because
           of
           the
           Prayers
           or
           the
           Priest
           .
           Not
           the
           first
           ;
           for
           the
           prayers
           (
           if
           select
           )
           may
           bee
           good
           ,
           and
           faultlesse
           ,
           and
           not
           because
           of
           the
           Priest
           ,
           for
           then
           wee
           may
           never
           joyne
           with
           an
           ungodly
           Minister
           in
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           :
           The
           answer
           would
           bee
           very
           imperfect
           and
           impertinent
           ,
           and
           just
           so
           it
           is
           here
           in
           the
           frame
           of
           the
           reason
           ,
           though
           the
           corruptions
           in
           that
           service
           and
           this
           be
           not
           alike
           we
           grant
           .
           But
           before
           wee
           answer
           to
           the
           second
           part
           of
           your
           dis-junction
           ,
           let
           us
           consider
           a
           little
           here
           once
           for
           all
           ,
           the
           act
           of
           the
           people
           in
           joyning
           with
           the
           reading
           of
           this
           Liturgy
           ,
           or
           so
           much
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           is
           read
           usually
           by
           such
           Idol-priests
           .
           First
           ,
           concerning
           the
           Liturgy
           it selfe
           ,
           if
           you
           respect
           the
           matter
           and
           forme
           ,
           or
           manner
           of
           it
           ,
           it
           would
           bee
           too
           tedious
           to
           rip
           up
           ,
           what
           for
           matter
           hath
           been
           objected
           by
           the
           godly
           Reformers
           .
           Consider
           but
           two
           things
           objected
           strongly
           by
           Mr.
           Cartwright
           against
           the
           forme
           or
           manner
           of
           it
           .
           First
           ,
           that
           it
           is
           taken
           out
           of
           the
           Popish
           Masse-book
           ,
           concerning
           which
           hee
           affirmeth
           ,
           that
           although
           there
           were
           nothing
           in
           it
           unlawfull
           ,
           or
           against
           the
           Word
           of
           God
           ,
           (
           which
           saith
           hee
           )
           I
           wish
           there
           were
           not
           ,
           yet
           no
           Word
           of
           God
           ,
           no
           reason
           ,
           nor
           example
           of
           the
           Ancient
           Churches
           ,
           Jewish
           or
           Christian
           ,
           will
           permit
           us
           to
           use
           the
           same
           formes
           and
           ceremonies
           (
           viz.
           with
           Papists
           )
           being
           neither
           commanded
           of
           God
           ,
           nor
           such
           as
           there
           may
           not
           bee
           as
           good
           as
           they
           ,
           and
           rather
           better
           established
           ,
           yea
           considering
           how
           neare
           the
           Papists
           live
           amongst
           us
           ,
           it
           were
           more
           safe
           to
           conforme
           to
           the
           Ceremonies
           of
           the
           Turks
           that
           are
           farre
           off
           .
           And
           this
           hee
           speaketh
           of
           the
           forme
           of
           Liturgy
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           Ceremonies
           ,
           Cartw.
           reply
           to
           Whitgifts
           answer
           to
           the
           admonition
           to
           the
           Parliament
           ,
           pag.
           131
           ,
           132.
           
           And
           although
           you
           seeme
           to
           make
           
           light
           of
           this
           objection
           ,
           after
           page
           15.
           end
           ,
           yet
           in
           a
           like
           case
           ,
           when
           Whitgift
           had
           said
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           materiall
           that
           Deanes
           ,
           Canons
           came
           from
           the
           Pope
           ;
           Cartwright
           replyeth
           thus
           ;
           It
           is
           as
           if
           hee
           had
           said
           ,
           it
           skilleth
           not
           ,
           if
           they
           came
           out
           of
           the
           bottomlesse
           pit
           ;
           for
           whatsoever
           commeth
           from
           the
           Pope
           ,
           who
           is
           Antichrist
           ,
           comes
           first
           from
           the
           Devill
           ,
           
             Cartw.
             Reply
             ,
             pag.
          
           204.
           
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           hee
           objecteth
           that
           absurd
           manner
           of
           chopping
           and
           interrupting
           the
           prayers
           ,
           of
           which
           Mr.
           Cartwright
           saith
           ,
           That
           if
           any
           man
           should
           make
           such
           a
           supplication
           to
           a
           Prince
           ,
           he
           would
           thinke
           him
           to
           make
           his
           supplication
           before
           hee
           knew
           what
           to
           ask
           ,
           or
           that
           hee
           had
           forgotten
           some
           piece
           of
           his
           suit
           ;
           or
           that
           he
           were
           
           distracted
           in
           his
           understanding
           .
           Much
           more
           might
           bee
           added
           ,
           but
           wee
           have
           onely
           touched
           this
           sore
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           words
           of
           that
           learned
           and
           zealous
           Reformer
           ,
           that
           it
           may
           appeare
           ,
           neither
           the
           opinion
           of
           that
           Booke
           ,
           nor
           the
           reasons
           against
           it
           ,
           are
           so
           new
           or
           proper
           to
           the
           Separatists
           ,
           as
           is
           pretended
           .
           Now
           what
           comfort
           can
           anygodly
           conscience
           have
           to
           joyn
           in
           ,
           or
           conform
           unto
           such
           a
           form
           of
           Worship
           as
           this
           is
           ?
        
         
           Further
           consider
           the
           administration
           of
           the
           Sacraments
           ,
           according
           to
           the
           Book
           (
           as
           we
           speak
           still
           of
           joyning
           in
           it
           )
           who
           knows
           not
           ,
           that
           such
           must
           subject
           their
           children
           to
           that
           grosse
           Idol
           of
           the
           crosse
           ,
           and
           see
           and
           approve
           the
           pollution
           of
           Gods
           Ordinances
           with
           the
           same
           :
           and
           at
           the
           Lords
           table
           joyne
           in
           that
           Idolatrous
           gesture
           of
           kneeling
           ;
           and
           therefore
           how
           the
           godly
           can
           joyn
           lawfully
           in
           the
           whole
           ,
           or
           such
           parts
           as
           those
           Idol-priests
           dispense
           ,
           let
           all
           Non-conformists
           judge
           ;
           and
           it
           is
           well
           knowne
           ,
           how
           superstitiously
           precise
           such
           are
           ,
           in
           pressing
           all
           conformity
           to
           every
           gesture
           and
           ceremony
           prescribed
           in
           their
           Booke
           ,
           which
           they
           so
           idolize
           ,
           as
           they
           have
           good
           cause
           ,
           being
           that
           which
           maintaines
           them
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           wee
           consider
           the
           imposition
           hereof
           by
           the
           Prelates
           and
           late
           strict
           pressing
           thereof
           upon
           the
           people
           to
           be
           present
           and
           conforme
           fully
           to
           it
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           upon
           Ministers
           to
           use
           it
           .
           The
           very
           yeelding
           of
           conformity
           thereto
           ,
           doth
           miserably
           cast
           away
           the
           liberty
           purchased
           by
           Christ
           to
           his
           Churches
           ,
           inthrall
           the
           Churches
           to
           Antichrist
           ,
           and
           lift
           up
           the
           power
           of
           Antichrist
           in
           his
           tyrannous
           usurpations
           upon
           the
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           we
           might
           adde
           the
           dangerous
           consequences
           and
           scandals
           that
           follow
           from
           admitting
           this
           Liturgy
           ,
           which
           being
           touched
           in
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           first
           Position
           ,
           we
           here
           passe
           over
           .
        
         
         
           These
           things
           considered
           ,
           it
           appeares
           ,
           not
           onely
           that
           there
           was
           need
           to
           disprove
           the
           first
           part
           of
           your
           disjunction
           ,
           which
           you
           declined
           in
           stating
           the
           question
           ;
           but
           also
           the
           truth
           of
           the
           Position
           it selfe
           is
           confirmed
           .
           Now
           let
           us
           consider
           your
           proof
           of
           the
           second
           part
           of
           your
           disjunction
           ;
           which
           is
           thus
           ,
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             Minister
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             not
             lawfull
             to
             joyn
             with
             such
             an
             one
             in
             any
             Ordinanee
             of
             God.
             For
             if
             the
             Minister
             make
             it
             unlawfull
             ,
             then
             all
             communion
             in
             any
             part
             of
             Gods
             Worship
             with
             such
             Ministers
             is
             unlawfull
             :
             and
             so
             the
             Churches
             in
             all
             ages
             of
             the
             world
             ,
             the
             Prophets
             ,
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             ,
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             and
             the
             faithfull
             in
             the
             Primitive
             Church
             ,
             sinned
             in
             holding
             communion
             with
             such
             ,
             when
             the
             Priests
             were
             dumbe
             dogs
             ,
             &c.
             but
             we
             never
             read
             that
             the
             Prophets
             ,
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             ,
             the
             Apostles
             did
             ever
             forbeare
             themselves
             ,
             or
             warne
             the
             faithfull
             not
             to
             communicate
             with
             such
             in
             the
             ordinances
             of
             Worship
             .
             Our
             Saviour
             charged
             the
             Disciples
             to
             beware
             of
             the
             leaven
             of
             the
             Scribes
             and
             Pharisees
             ,
             but
             never
             forbad
             them
             to
             communicate
             with
             them
             in
             the
             ordinances
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           To
           this
           we
           answer
           ;
           First
           ,
           that
           if
           you
           speake
           to
           the
           case
           in
           hand
           of
           those
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           Ministers
           of
           England
           ,
           Readers
           (
           as
           they
           are
           called
           )
           of
           the
           Common-service
           ,
           wee
           grant
           it
           is
           not
           lawfull
           to
           communicate
           in
           a
           stated
           way
           with
           them
           ,
           in
           any
           ordinance
           of
           Worship
           properly
           Ministeriall
           ;
           in
           any
           act
           that
           private
           persons
           may
           performe
           ,
           wee
           may
           communicate
           with
           them
           ,
           but
           not
           in
           Ministeriall
           worke
           ,
           as
           Sacraments
           ;
           for
           although
           being
           imposed
           on
           any
           Church
           as
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           so
           received
           by
           them
           ,
           their
           Ministeriall
           acts
           are
           not
           a
           nullity
           ;
           yet
           if
           wee
           speake
           of
           the
           lawfulnesse
           of
           such
           their
           act
           of
           receiving
           them
           ,
           then
           the
           Church
           sinneth
           in
           choosing
           them
           ,
           or
           being
           imposed
           ,
           in
           receiving
           them
           ,
           and
           submitting
           to
           their
           Ministery
           ,
           being
           such
           as
           are
           utterly
           contrary
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           rejected
           of
           him
           .
           And
           by
           the
           like
           reason
           the
           godly
           sinne
           in
           receiving
           Sacraments
           ,
           &c.
           from
           them
           ,
           as
           Ministers
           of
           Christ
           ,
           knowing
           they
           intrude
           into
           that
           office
           ,
           and
           have
           no
           authority
           by
           the
           rule
           of
           Christ
           so
           to
           doe
           .
           Wee
           may
           heare
           a
           private
           gifted
           Christian
           prophecy
           ,
           but
           if
           hee
           intrude
           without
           a
           lawfull
           calling
           into
           the
           Ministery
           ,
           we
           may
           not
           receive
           him
           ,
           nor
           approve
           of
           him
           therein
           .
        
         
           Cyprians
           speech
           is
           commonly
           noted
           ,
           that
           
             Plebs
             maxime
             habe●
             potestatem
             vel
             eligendi
             dignos
             Sacerdotes
             ,
             vel
             indignos
             recusandi
          
           ;
           yet
           the
           occasion
           of
           it
           is
           not
           so
           generally
           observed
           ,
           which
           is
           this
           ,
           
             Plebs
             obsequens
             praeceptis
             Dominicis
             ,
             Deum
             metuens
             ,
             à
             peccatore
             proposito
          
           
           
             separare
             se
             debet
             ,
             nec
             se
             ad
             sacrilegia
             sacerdotis
             sacrificia
             miscere
             ,
             ●um
             ipse
             maxime
             habet
             potestatem
             eligendi
             ,
          
           &c.
           that
           is
           ,
           the
           people
           observing
           divine
           precepts
           ,
           and
           fearing
           God
           ,
           ought
           to
           separate
           themselves
           from
           a
           wicked
           Minister
           ,
           neither
           joyne
           themselves
           to
           the
           sacrifices
           of
           a
           sacrilegious
           Priest
           ,
           seeing
           they
           chiefly
           have
           power
           of
           choosing
           worthy
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           rejecting
           unworthy
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           wee
           see
           no
           demonstrative
           argument
           that
           the
           Priests
           and
           Pharisees
           were
           wholly
           unable
           for
           the
           worke
           of
           those
           times
           ,
           as
           these
           wee
           speake
           of
           are
           for
           —
           :
           though
           the
           Priests
           ,
           Esay
           56.
           10.
           were
           dumb
           dogs
           that
           cannot
           barke
           ;
           yet
           it
           seemes
           by
           the
           place
           to
           be
           meant
           actually
           ,
           rather
           then
           habitually
           ,
           through
           their
           slumbering
           or
           security
           there
           mentioned
           ,
           not
           telling
           the
           people
           of
           their
           sinnes
           ,
           nor
           warning
           them
           of
           judgements
           ,
           rather
           then
           of
           their
           totall
           inability
           .
           Men
           of
           good
           parts
           and
           able
           gifts
           may
           be
           actually
           such
           dumb
           dogs
           ,
           as
           seldome
           preach
           ,
           or
           never
           to
           purpose
           ,
           and
           bee
           spiritually
           ignorant
           through
           much
           prophanenesse
           ,
           yet
           not
           totally
           deprived
           of
           common
           gifts
           :
           It
           is
           most
           evident
           that
           the
           Pharisees
           were
           blinde
           ,
           yet
           taught
           the
           people
           ,
           and
           hence
           the
           Disciples
           were
           permitted
           to
           heare
           them
           ;
           but
           what
           is
           this
           to
           the
           question
           ,
           which
           is
           of
           unable
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           of
           ungodly
           Ministers
           ?
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           suppose
           some
           of
           the
           Priests
           and
           Levites
           were
           unable
           ,
           
           yet
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Old
           Testament
           was
           limitted
           by
           God
           himselfe
           to
           the
           tribe
           of
           Levi
           ,
           and
           that
           by
           succession
           ,
           which
           is
           farre
           otherwise
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           being
           left
           to
           the
           Churches
           election
           ,
           and
           therefore
           they
           had
           no
           power
           to
           reject
           them
           ,
           o●
           withdraw
           from
           them
           ,
           when
           they
           had
           ministred
           the
           ordinances
           of
           God.
           
        
         
           Fourthly
           ,
           suppose
           some
           of
           them
           were
           not
           called
           of
           God
           ,
           being
           not
           lineally
           descended
           of
           that
           tribe
           ,
           yet
           those
           things
           wherein
           the
           faithfull
           ,
           Christ
           and
           his
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           others
           did
           communicate
           with
           them
           ,
           were
           necessarily
           commanded
           of
           God
           ,
           viz.
           sacrifices
           ,
           offerings
           ,
           &c.
           in
           the
           Temple
           ,
           which
           seale
           of
           God
           we
           see
           not
           stamped
           upon
           this
           Liturgy
           in
           question
           ,
           to
           make
           it
           currant
           .
           And
           thus
           
             Peter
             Martyr
          
           answereth
           in
           the
           like
           case
           ,
           that
           though
           
           there
           were
           many
           pernicious
           doctrines
           taught
           by
           Scribes
           ,
           Pharisees
           and
           wicked
           Priests
           ,
           yet
           
             sacrificandi
             ritus
             ,
             &c.
          
           the
           rites
           of
           sacrificing
           were
           not
           changed
           ;
           for
           the
           same
           oblations
           were
           offered
           ,
           which
           the
           Law
           commanded
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           Saints
           might
           use
           them
           ,
           having
           the
           word
           of
           God
           conjoyned
           with
           them
           .
        
         
           Fifthly
           ,
           what
           you
           grant
           concerning
           Christ
           his
           warning
           his
           
           Disciples
           to
           take
           heed
           of
           the
           leaven
           of
           the
           Scribes
           and
           Pharisees
           ,
           no
           doubt
           hee
           did
           the
           like
           ,
           concerning
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           Priests
           in
           their
           administrations
           of
           Gods
           ordinances
           ,
           and
           wee
           doubt
           not
           ,
           but
           you
           will
           acknowledge
           that
           the
           Prophets
           and
           Apostles
           
           did
           or
           ought
           to
           abstaine
           from
           all
           actuall
           communion
           with
           those
           corruptions
           ,
           and
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           out
           of
           question
           did
           abstaine
           :
           which
           being
           so
           ,
           wee
           may
           retort
           this
           argument
           thus
           in
           regard
           of
           conformitie
           to
           ceremonies
           ,
           If
           it
           bee
           not
           lawfull
           to
           partake
           in
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           where
           wee
           must
           actually
           joyne
           with
           such
           ceremonies
           ,
           then
           Christ
           ,
           the
           Prophets
           and
           Apostles
           must
           not
           have
           joyned
           in
           any
           ordinance
           of
           God
           in
           severall
           ages
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           when
           worse
           or
           as
           ill
           corruptions
           were
           admixed
           with
           that
           worship
           :
           But
           they
           never
           refused
           the
           ordinances
           of
           worship
           for
           such
           corruptions
           ;
           Therefore
           wee
           should
           not
           now
           for
           these
           ceremonies
           abstaine
           ;
           put
           case
           for
           kneeling
           at
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           ,
           &c.
           
           If
           you
           please
           to
           solve
           this
           knot
           ,
           the
           same
           answer
           will
           serve
           our
           turne
           as
           well
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             not
             for
             private
             Christians
             to
             withdraw
             themselves
             from
             the
             ordinances
             of
             worship
             ,
             and
             communion
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             because
             such
             are
             permitted
             to
             deale
             in
             the
             holy
             things
             of
             God
             ,
             whom
             they
             judge
             or
             know
             unfit
             ;
             when
             men
             joyne
             in
             the
             worship
             of
             God
             with
             unworthy
             Ministers
             ,
             they
             doe
             not
             countenance
             them
             ,
             their
             place
             and
             office
             ,
             but
             obey
             the
             commandement
             of
             God
             ,
             who
             requires
             their
             attendance
             upon
             his
             highnesse
             in
             that
             way
             and
             meanes
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           wee
           grant
           it
           is
           not
           alwayes
           for
           private
           Christians
           so
           to
           leave
           the
           communion
           of
           a
           Church
           in
           the
           ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           for
           such
           a
           reason
           ,
           but
           if
           they
           have
           first
           done
           their
           part
           according
           to
           their
           place
           to
           reforme
           or
           cast
           out
           such
           an
           unworthy
           and
           unable
           ministry
           ,
           and
           cannot
           ,
           or
           see
           no
           hope
           to
           procure
           one
           sufficient
           to
           edifie
           the
           Church
           ,
           hee
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           betake
           himselfe
           to
           some
           other
           Church
           ,
           where
           hee
           may
           bee
           edified
           ,
           and
           it
           is
           a
           great
           mistake
           to
           thinke
           ,
           (
           in
           the
           constitution
           of
           the
           Gospell
           )
           that
           a
           Christian
           cannot
           reject
           all
           fellowship
           with
           such
           Idoll
           Priests
           ,
           but
           hee
           must
           forsake
           the
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ,
           or
           rent
           off
           from
           the
           Church
           ,
           when
           indeed
           hee
           deprives
           himselfe
           of
           many
           ordinances
           in
           joyning
           with
           them
           ,
           and
           attaines
           them
           in
           forsaking
           of
           them
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           we
           consider
           wherein
           the
           outward
           call
           of
           all
           Church
           Officers
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           lies
           ,
           viz.
           in
           a
           great
           part
           in
           the
           choice
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           or
           at
           least
           in
           their
           after
           consent
           and
           receiving
           of
           them
           ,
           being
           chosen
           by
           others
           for
           them
           ,
           Act.
           1.
           and
           6.
           and
           14.
           how
           can
           any
           godly
           man
           receive
           ,
           submit
           unto
           ,
           or
           acknowledge
           
           such
           unable
           wretches
           by
           receiving
           Gods
           ordinances
           from
           them
           ,
           as
           Ministers
           ,
           but
           they
           must
           needs
           countenance
           them
           in
           their
           places
           ,
           and
           set
           up
           to
           themselves
           an
           Idoll
           or
           meanes
           of
           worship
           to
           edifie
           themselves
           ,
           which
           God
           never
           appointed
           ;
           for
           let
           it
           bee
           proved
           that
           ever
           God
           appointed
           readers
           of
           a
           Liturgie
           to
           edifie
           the
           people
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           but
           that
           to
           joyne
           in
           worship
           with
           such
           should
           bee
           to
           obey
           Gods
           command
           ,
           who
           requires
           attendance
           upon
           himselfe
           in
           that
           way
           and
           meanes
           ,
           wee
           thinke
           it
           a
           speech
           not
           so
           throughly
           digested
           ,
           if
           wee
           carry
           in
           our
           eye
           the
           case
           now
           in
           hand
           ,
           concerning
           these
           Idoll
           Priests
           and
           Silver
           shrines
           .
           For
           where
           can
           they
           shew
           any
           such
           command
           ?
           or
           why
           hath
           it
           been
           suffered
           by
           any
           of
           our
           Brethren
           ,
           that
           the
           godly
           living
           under
           such
           Priests
           ,
           have
           been
           so
           frequently
           absent
           from
           them
           ,
           reading
           the
           liturgy
           ,
           to
           heare
           their
           Sermons
           ?
           Nay
           why
           have
           they
           not
           told
           them
           ,
           they
           were
           bound
           to
           attend
           upon
           God
           in
           hearing
           their
           Sir
           John
           read
           at
           home
           ?
           Wee
           appeale
           to
           all
           consciences
           ,
           whether
           they
           would
           approve
           of
           any
           godly
           man
           ,
           that
           would
           rest
           in
           such
           meanes
           ,
           and
           not
           call
           him
           to
           leave
           all
           his
           outward
           conveniences
           ,
           for
           some
           godly
           able
           Ministry
           :
           or
           at
           least
           not
           to
           attend
           on
           them
           ,
           but
           get
           where
           they
           may
           bee
           better
           edified
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             To
             goe
             no
             further
             then
             the
             Text
             you
             quote
             ,
          
           Hosea
           4.
           6
           ,
           7.
           
           
             Because
             thou
             hast
             despised
             knowledge
             I
             have
             rejected
             thee
             ;
             properly
             the
             Text
             speaketh
             of
             the
             ten
             Tribes
             and
             the
             Priests
             amongst
             them
             ,
             who
             worshipped
             the
             Calves
             ,
             &c.
             whom
             the
             Lord
             threatens
             to
             reject
             ;
             but
             neither
             this
             nor
             any
             other
             Text
             proves
             ,
             that
             people
             joyning
             in
             worship
             with
             such
             ,
             doe
             countenance
             them
             in
             their
             places
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           Text
           proves
           that
           God
           rejects
           such
           Priests
           as
           these
           are
           ,
           (
           just
           like
           Jeroboams
           Priests
           of
           the
           meanest
           of
           the
           people
           )
           and
           that
           was
           all
           it
           was
           alledged
           for
           ,
           and
           that
           receiving
           such
           as
           Ministers
           doth
           countenance
           them
           in
           their
           places
           ,
           was
           proved
           before
           .
           And
           if
           it
           bee
           meant
           of
           Jeroboams
           Priests
           ,
           as
           you
           say
           ,
           the
           approved
           practise
           of
           the
           godly
           in
           those
           dayes
           ,
           2
           Chron.
           11.
           16.
           will
           well
           justifie
           and
           lead
           us
           to
           reject
           and
           leave
           these
           also
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           there
           seemes
           to
           bee
           foure
           arguments
           ,
           why
           the
           people
           should
           withdraw
           from
           these
           kind
           of
           Priests
           :
           First
           ,
           in
           regard
           of
           their
           miserable
           perishing
           for
           want
           of
           knowledge
           by
           their
           meanes
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           because
           the
           people
           in
           receiving
           them
           ,
           rejected
           knowledge
           ,
           as
           Calvin
           notes
           upon
           the
           place
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           because
           God
           would
           take
           a
           time
           to
           disburthen
           the
           Church
           of
           them
           ,
           whence
           Drusius
           
           
             in
             locum
          
           wisheth
           ,
           
             utinam
             tales
             bodie
             à
             ministerio
             amoverentur
             .
          
           Fourthly
           ,
           because
           the
           Lord
           would
           cast
           off
           their
           children
           from
           being
           his
           ,
           for
           this
           sinne
           ,
           as
           Calvin
           also
           notes
           upon
           the
           place
           ;
           the
           promise
           of
           shewing
           mercy
           to
           a
           1000.
           generations
           ,
           being
           chiefly
           annexed
           to
           the
           observers
           of
           the
           second
           Command
           ,
           and
           the
           instituted
           meanes
           of
           worship
           ,
           which
           those
           Priests
           never
           were
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             On
             the
             contrary
             ,
             if
             you
             will
             extend
             this
             Text
             to
             all
             unworthy
             Ministers
             of
             what
             sort
             soever
             ,
             whom
             the
             Word
             of
             God
             condemns
             ,
             as
             not
             approved
             Ministers
             of
             God
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           intended
           no
           other
           sorts
           then
           such
           as
           wee
           have
           in
           hand
           ,
           the
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           Idoll
           Priests
           of
           England
           ,
           and
           therefore
           this
           discourse
           concernes
           us
           not
           .
           For
           wee
           freely
           confesse
           ,
           that
           it
           is
           lawfull
           in
           divers
           cases
           ,
           at
           least
           for
           a
           time
           ,
           to
           communicate
           with
           such
           unworthy
           Ministers
           as
           may
           bee
           contained
           in
           your
           description
           :
           but
           that
           people
           must
           and
           ought
           to
           joyne
           with
           such
           in
           the
           worship
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           sinne
           ,
           if
           they
           separate
           from
           the
           ordinances
           ,
           (
           as
           you
           say
           )
           the
           Scriptures
           alledged
           teach
           not
           this
           so
           evidently
           ,
           that
           wee
           can
           see
           ,
           as
           1
           Sam.
           2.
           12
           ,
           13.
           17.
           24.
           that
           imputation
           ,
           Verse
           24.
           
           They
           make
           the
           Lords
           people
           to
           transgresse
           ,
           doth
           not
           depend
           immediatly
           on
           Verse
           13
           ,
           14.
           17.
           but
           on
           Verse
           22.
           23.
           where
           they
           are
           charged
           to
           have
           layne
           with
           the
           women
           ,
           the
           other
           passages
           being
           interrupted
           by
           the
           story
           of
           Samuel
           and
           his
           Mother
           ,
           Verse
           18
           ,
           19.
           20
           ,
           21.
           
           So
           
             Jer.
             8.
             8
             ,
             9.
             
             Micah
          
           3.
           11
           ,
           12.
           containe
           onely
           threats
           against
           wicked
           Ministers
           ,
           but
           not
           a
           word
           to
           prove
           people
           ought
           to
           joyne
           with
           them
           ,
           &c.
           Phil.
           1.
           15.
           speaking
           of
           such
           as
           preach
           and
           preach
           Christ
           ,
           though
           not
           of
           sinceritie
           ,
           doth
           not
           reach
           such
           Ministers
           as
           the
           word
           condemnes
           :
           for
           many
           such
           may
           be
           approved
           Ministers
           by
           the
           Word
           ,
           having
           a
           call
           according
           to
           the
           same
           ;
           but
           wee
           shall
           not
           contend
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           wherein
           wee
           doe
           not
           dissent
           ,
           so
           that
           Christians
           bee
           left
           to
           their
           lawfull
           libertie
           of
           withdrawing
           from
           Ministers
           grossely
           wicked
           ,
           and
           Teachers
           of
           false
           Doctrin
           ,
           or
           idle
           and
           unsufficient
           ,
           when
           they
           cannot
           reclaime
           them
           ,
           or
           remove
           them
           in
           the
           use
           of
           all
           lawfull
           meanes
           within
           their
           power
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             reasons
             whereby
             the
             ancient
             Churches
             condemned
             the
             Donatists
             and
             Catharists
             for
             their
             voluntary
             and
             seditious
             separations
             ,
             and
             the
             moderne
             Churches
             condemne
             the
             Anabaptists
             for
             their
             renting
             from
             the
             body
             of
             Christ
             ,
             will
             hold
             against
             separation
             from
             the
             Prayers
             of
             the
             Congregation
             ,
             because
             they
             are
             read
             by
             an
             ungodly
             Minister
             .
          
        
         
           Wee
           deny
           that
           wee
           teach
           or
           hold
           such
           separation
           ,
           because
           read
           by
           an
           ungodly
           Minister
           ,
           as
           is
           sufficiently
           shewed
           before
           ;
           but
           what
           
           we
           speak
           is
           against
           conformitie
           to
           and
           communion
           with
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           Liturgie
           especially
           used
           by
           an
           unable
           as
           well
           as
           ungodly
           Minister
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           arguments
           mentioned
           will
           hold
           against
           our
           proposition
           ,
           just
           as
           the
           accusations
           and
           imputations
           of
           Donatisme
           ,
           Puritanisme
           ,
           Anabaptisme
           ,
           which
           the
           Prelates
           cast
           upon
           all
           Non-conformists
           and
           men
           studious
           of
           reformation
           ,
           will
           hold
           and
           fasten
           upon
           them
           ,
           which
           is
           nothing
           at
           all
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             second
             Proposition
             ,
             where
             the
             whole
             Liturgie
             is
             used
             though
             by
             an
             able
             and
             godly
             Minister
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             lawfull
             to
             joyne
             in
             prayer
             in
             that
             case
             ;
             Wee
             cannot
             bee
             of
             your
             judgement
             herein
             ,
             for
             in
             the
             times
             of
             the
             Prophets
             ,
             and
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             as
             great
             abuses
             no
             question
             were
             found
             ,
             &c.
             but
             they
             never
             taught
             people
             to
             separate
             from
             the
             holy
             things
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           wee
           must
           still
           mind
           the
           Reader
           of
           the
           true
           and
           full
           state
           of
           the
           question
           ,
           which
           in
           our
           answer
           is
           of
           joyning
           in
           prayer
           ,
           with
           ,
           and
           when
           that
           whole
           Liturgy
           is
           used
           ,
           and
           hee
           that
           joynes
           with
           that
           whole
           Liturgie
           must
           needs
           bee
           supposed
           to
           have
           actuall
           communion
           with
           all
           the
           corruptions
           thereof
           what
           ever
           they
           bee
           ,
           and
           therefore
           though
           this
           Proposition
           reach
           to
           the
           practise
           of
           able
           and
           godly
           Ministers
           ,
           yet
           let
           none
           thinke
           wee
           plead
           herein
           separation
           from
           their
           ministery
           ,
           but
           onely
           that
           people
           may
           not
           conforme
           with
           them
           to
           any
           corruption
           in
           worship
           ,
           and
           by
           this
           proposition
           also
           the
           Author
           might
           easily
           have
           seene
           that
           wee
           denied
           the
           other
           (
           which
           was
           woven
           in
           with
           this
           )
           not
           because
           of
           the
           ungodlinesse
           of
           the
           Minister
           alone
           as
           hee
           carried
           his
           dispute
           ,
           but
           chiefly
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           worship
           ,
           together
           with
           the
           unlawfulnesse
           of
           such
           a
           ministery
           that
           is
           both
           unable
           and
           ungodly
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           concerning
           the
           argument
           it
           runs
           as
           full
           for
           conformitie
           to
           all
           the
           corrupt
           ceremonies
           of
           the
           booke
           as
           the
           corrupt
           worship
           it selfe
           therein
           ,
           as
           was
           said
           before
           ,
           cleare
           the
           one
           ,
           viz.
           non-conformitie
           to
           ceremonies
           ,
           shew
           a
           reason
           why
           you
           will
           separate
           from
           the
           Sacrament
           ,
           because
           you
           will
           not
           kneele
           according
           to
           the
           booke
           ,
           and
           you
           answer
           your
           argument
           here
           alledged
           against
           us
           :
           but
           the
           reply
           proceeds
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             And
             if
             presence
             at
             formes
             of
             prayer
             bee
             not
             lawfull
             by
             reason
             of
             the
             corruptions
             alledged
             ,
             there
             can
             bee
             no
             visible
             societie
             named
             ,
             since
             200.
             yeeres
             after
             Christ
             or
             thereabout
             ,
             wherein
             a
             Christian
             might
             lawfully
             joyne
             in
             prayer
             ,
             reading
             the
             Scriptures
             ,
             hearing
             the
             word
             ,
             or
             participation
             of
             the
             Sacraments
             ;
             their
             Doctrines
             ,
             prayers
             ,
             rights
             being
             lesse
             pure
             then
             ours
             :
             but
             no
             man
             wee
             hope
             will
             bee
             so
             bold
             as
             to
             affirme
             the
             state
             of
             the
             Churches
          
           
           
             within
             200.
             yeers
             after
             Christ
             to
             bee
             so
             miserably
             decayed
             that
             the
             faithfull
             could
             not
             without
             sinne
             hold
             communion
             with
             them
             in
             the
             foresaid
             ordinances
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           this
           argument
           holds
           as
           strongly
           for
           conformitie
           to
           the
           ceremonies
           as
           to
           the
           whole
           booke
           of
           Common
           Prayers
           ,
           as
           was
           said
           before
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           this
           is
           a
           dangerous
           kind
           of
           reasoning
           from
           the
           practise
           of
           the
           faithfull
           in
           corrupt
           times
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           especially
           when
           they
           are
           declining
           ,
           and
           growing
           clouds
           of
           darkenesse
           ,
           and
           superstition
           overspread
           the
           Churches
           .
           It
           is
           no
           breach
           of
           charitie
           to
           thinke
           that
           through
           the
           iniquitie
           of
           the
           times
           ,
           the
           godly
           lived
           in
           many
           evils
           through
           ignorance
           and
           weakenesse
           which
           after
           light
           is
           come
           into
           the
           Churches
           wee
           ought
           to
           abandon
           wholly
           ;
           these
           are
           times
           of
           light
           and
           of
           the
           consumption
           of
           Antichrist
           ,
           and
           time
           for
           us
           to
           abolish
           his
           Liturgies
           and
           corrupt
           formes
           of
           worship
           as
           well
           as
           Images
           ,
           ceremonies
           ,
           &c.
           
           Who
           doe
           not
           pitie
           the
           weaknesse
           of
           godly
           Bilny
           and
           others
           that
           seeing
           some
           grosse
           corruptions
           were
           yet
           so
           devoutly
           obedient
           to
           the
           Church
           (
           as
           they
           called
           it
           )
           in
           many
           grosse
           superstitions
           ?
           and
           the
           like
           may
           bee
           said
           of
           those
           former
           times
           ,
           and
           wee
           see
           not
           but
           this
           reason
           will
           goe
           farre
           in
           justification
           of
           communion
           with
           many
           false
           worships
           of
           Antichrists
           that
           are
           not
           grosly
           idolatrous
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           it
           is
           a
           great
           charge
           upon
           those
           times
           to
           say
           no
           visible
           societie
           throughout
           the
           world
           can
           bee
           named
           since
           200.
           yeeres
           after
           Christ
           ,
           that
           was
           not
           lesse
           pure
           then
           England
           in
           Doctrine
           ,
           rites
           ,
           &c.
           
           It
           may
           bee
           ,
           that
           as
           generally
           Churches
           were
           corrupt
           ,
           so
           they
           contemned
           and
           censured
           such
           as
           professed
           more
           puritie
           :
           but
           that
           there
           were
           some
           visible
           assemblies
           more
           pure
           may
           bee
           conceived
           by
           that
           testimony
           given
           to
           Aerius
           and
           many
           orthodox
           Christians
           with
           him
           ,
           though
           condemned
           for
           a
           Hereticke
           ,
           in
           that
           which
           wee
           all
           now
           hold
           to
           bee
           an
           undoubted
           truth
           ;
           also
           after
           the
           Waldenses
           casting
           off
           the
           Pope
           and
           his
           will
           worships
           ,
           and
           the
           following
           reformed
           Churches
           ,
           those
           of
           
             Scotland
             ,
             Geneva
          
           ,
           and
           divers
           others
           in
           France
           and
           
             Switserland
             ,
             &c.
          
           whose
           Doctrines
           ,
           rites
           and
           administrations
           wee
           doubt
           not
           will
           bee
           confessed
           more
           pure
           then
           English
           Churches
           .
           It
           would
           bee
           too
           tedious
           ,
           and
           in
           these
           knowing
           times
           needlesse
           to
           search
           all
           records
           and
           to
           compare
           the
           puritie
           of
           the
           prayers
           ,
           and
           rites
           of
           these
           with
           former
           times
           ,
           wee
           read
           of
           very
           few
           formes
           used
           for
           300.
           yeeres
           ,
           some
           short
           ones
           they
           had
           which
           are
           retained
           yet
           in
           our
           Liturgie
           ,
           with
           many
           more
           ,
           and
           
           those
           formes
           they
           had
           ,
           not
           imposed
           nor
           stinted
           ,
           which
           is
           the
           great
           offence
           of
           this
           ,
           untill
           about
           the
           yeere
           406.
           and
           there
           wee
           read
           in
           the
           Milevit●n
           Councell
           that
           no
           prayers
           should
           bee
           used
           in
           Churches
           but
           what
           were
           either
           composed
           of
           able
           and
           sufficient
           men
           ,
           or
           approved
           by
           the
           Synods
           ,
           and
           this
           was
           determined
           onely
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           ignorant
           Ministery
           of
           those
           contentious
           and
           hereticall
           
           times
           ,
           as
           Chemnitius
           observes
           ,
           
             ne
             forte
             aliquid
             contra
             fidem
             vel
             per
             ignorantiam
             ,
             vel
             per
             minus
             studium
             sit
             compositum
             .
          
           If
           the
           Roman
           Bishops
           did
           multiply
           (
           as
           indeed
           they
           did
           excessively
           (
           unlesse
           their
           owne
           admirers
           erre
           grossely
           )
           rites
           and
           formes
           of
           prayer
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           well
           knowne
           how
           long
           it
           was
           ere
           the
           Churches
           in
           other
           places
           submitted
           to
           their
           power
           ,
           so
           that
           this
           comparison
           might
           well
           have
           beene
           spared
           .
           To
           conclude
           ,
           though
           wee
           say
           not
           that
           all
           Churches
           since
           200.
           yeeres
           after
           Christ
           were
           so
           miserably
           decayed
           ,
           that
           the
           faithfull
           might
           not
           without
           sinne
           communicate
           with
           them
           ,
           yet
           wee
           may
           bee
           bold
           to
           say
           many
           of
           them
           were
           so
           corrupt
           ,
           that
           the
           faithfull
           did
           not
           ,
           nor
           could
           not
           communicate
           in
           many
           parts
           of
           Gods
           worship
           without
           sinnes
           of
           ignorance
           conforming
           to
           the
           corruptions
           themselves
           ;
           and
           that
           if
           they
           had
           seene
           and
           discovered
           the
           evill
           of
           them
           ,
           they
           ought
           ,
           and
           we
           beleeve
           would
           have
           abstained
           from
           divers
           ordinances
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           corrupt
           administrations
           of
           them
           ;
           yea
           after
           all
           meanes
           used
           to
           purge
           them
           out
           ,
           and
           not
           prevailing
           ,
           they
           ought
           and
           would
           have
           withdrawn
           themselves
           to
           more
           pure
           Churches
           ,
           or
           erected
           such
           amongst
           themselves
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             prayers
             of
             the
             Ministers
             conceived
             or
             stinted
             in
             a
             set
             forme
             bee
             not
             his
             private
             prayers
             ,
             but
             the
             publike
             prayers
             of
             the
             assembly
             ;
             but
             you
             will
             not
             say
             the
             people
             ought
             not
             to
             joyn
             with
             their
             pastour
             therein
             if
             ought
             bee
             amisse
             ,
             for
             matter
             ,
             manner
             ,
             or
             both
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           There
           is
           a
           wide
           difference
           betweene
           the
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           so
           imposed
           ,
           and
           so
           clogged
           ,
           as
           is
           before
           shewed
           :
           and
           such
           prayers
           of
           the
           Minister
           having
           something
           amisse
           .
           But
           you
           may
           put
           the
           case
           so
           ,
           as
           it
           would
           bee
           unlawfull
           for
           people
           to
           joyne
           in
           such
           prayers
           also
           :
           as
           if
           the
           Minister
           for
           matter
           usually
           pray
           to
           Saints
           ,
           for
           manner
           ,
           turne
           himselfe
           ,
           and
           fix
           his
           eye
           on
           a
           Crucifix
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             all
             one
             to
             the
             people
             in
             this
             ●ase
             ,
             whether
             the
             fault
             bee
             personall
             (
             as
             some
             distinguish
             )
             or
             otherwise
             ;
             knowne
             before
             hand
             or
             not
             knowne
             ;
             for
             if
             simple
             presence
             defile
             ,
             whether
             knowne
             before
             hand
             or
             not
             ,
             all
             presence
             is
             faultie
             ,
             and
             if
             simple
             presence
             defile
             not
             ,
             our
             presence
             is
             not
             condemned
             by
             reason
             of
             the
             corruptions
             knowne
             ,
             whereof
             wee
             stand
             not
             guiltie
             .
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           we
           distinguish
           not
           here
           between
           personall
           and
           ministeriall
           faults
           ,
           but
           object
           against
           the
           personall
           act
           of
           him
           that
           joynes
           with
           that
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           and
           so
           in
           the
           corruptions
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           hee
           must
           needs
           doe
           ,
           that
           joyns
           with
           the
           whole
           ,
           not
           onely
           saying
           Amen
           to
           them
           ,
           but
           as
           is
           knowne
           he
           takes
           his
           share
           in
           those
           shreds
           of
           prayers
           ,
           Responds
           ,
           &c.
           which
           in
           Mr.
           Cartwrights
           judgement
           is
           so
           absurd
           ,
           as
           makes
           a
           man
           seeme
           out
           of
           his
           wits
           .
           And
           therefore
           his
           personall
           ,
           actuall
           conformitie
           must
           needs
           carry
           guilt
           ,
           and
           therefore
           there
           is
           more
           then
           simple
           presence
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           as
           is
           cleare
           to
           any
           understanding
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           all
           one
           whether
           the
           faults
           bee
           knowne
           ,
           or
           not
           knowne
           before
           hand
           ,
           as
           appeares
           plainely
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           10.
           27
           ,
           28
           ,
           29.
           where
           wee
           see
           ,
           if
           a
           man
           come
           to
           a
           feast
           ,
           and
           know
           not
           they
           eate
           with
           reference
           to
           the
           Idoll
           ,
           nor
           that
           any
           take
           offence
           ,
           he
           may
           eate
           without
           asking
           any
           question
           :
           but
           if
           hee
           know
           such
           things
           ,
           he
           may
           not
           eate
           .
        
         
           Besides
           ,
           publique
           sinfull
           actions
           of
           Ministers
           are
           either
           ,
           1
           Accidental
           &
           occasional
           ,
           or
           2ly
           .
           known
           &
           appointed
           in
           a
           stated
           service
           ;
           now
           the
           frailties
           of
           a
           Minister
           ,
           which
           accidentally
           fall
           in
           and
           are
           not
           known
           before
           ,
           nor
           are
           any
           part
           and
           essence
           of
           the
           service
           ,
           unto
           which
           men
           that
           come
           ,
           doe
           or
           should
           take
           themselves
           to
           bee
           called
           ,
           hinder
           not
           communion
           ;
           because
           they
           doe
           not
           
             prae
             se
             ferre
          
           by
           their
           presence
           to
           attend
           and
           observe
           them
           ,
           but
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           Liturgie
           are
           knowne
           and
           appointed
           ,
           and
           to
           which
           and
           with
           which
           the
           imposers
           call
           others
           to
           joyne
           as
           in
           a
           stated
           service
           to
           God
           ;
           the
           use
           of
           which
           if
           it
           bee
           an
           humane
           frailtie
           in
           Gods
           Ministers
           ,
           not
           yet
           convinced
           of
           the
           evill
           thereof
           ,
           yet
           for
           those
           to
           communicate
           herein
           ,
           who
           know
           such
           evills
           ,
           have
           surely
           passed
           the
           bounds
           of
           frailtie
           and
           infirmitie
           ;
           because
           in
           this
           action
           of
           prayer
           there
           is
           not
           onely
           communion
           by
           way
           of
           presence
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           in
           hearing
           the
           word
           ;
           but
           communion
           of
           action
           :
           publique
           prayer
           being
           the
           common
           action
           of
           the
           whole
           Church
           towards
           God.
           There
           can
           be
           no
           prayer
           by
           any
           man
           offered
           to
           God
           ,
           but
           there
           will
           be
           some
           humane
           frailties
           attending
           on
           it
           ;
           if
           therefore
           for
           this
           cause
           wee
           should
           reject
           communion
           in
           prayer
           ,
           wee
           should
           reject
           the
           ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           never
           joyne
           in
           any
           prayer
           in
           this
           world
           ;
           but
           the
           corruptions
           of
           the
           Liturgie
           are
           not
           such
           ,
           but
           that
           they
           may
           bee
           more
           easily
           cast
           off
           ,
           then
           kept
           .
        
         
           This
           case
           stands
           not
           in
           tolerating
           faults
           in
           another
           (
           as
           the
           reply
           makes
           it
           )
           but
           in
           actuall
           joyning
           with
           the
           sinnes
           of
           another
           ,
           
           wherein
           hee
           that
           joyneth
           is
           involved
           ,
           and
           therefore
           whether
           they
           bee
           corruptions
           ,
           that
           may
           bee
           tolerated
           or
           not
           in
           another
           ,
           yet
           if
           sinnes
           ,
           they
           may
           not
           bee
           practised
           and
           so
           joyned
           in
           with
           another
           .
           And
           therefore
           the
           case
           you
           put
           of
           communion
           with
           any
           person
           obstinate
           in
           errour
           ,
           till
           hee
           may
           bee
           convinced
           ,
           is
           nothing
           to
           this
           purpose
           .
           For
           wee
           must
           not
           joyne
           with
           him
           in
           his
           error
           ,
           no
           not
           an
           houre
           ,
           though
           wee
           may
           tolerate
           him
           a
           moneth
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Hath
             not
             Christian
             wisedome
             and
             experience
             of
             humane
             frailties
             lessoned
             you
             (
             deare
             brethren
             )
             to
             beare
             one
             with
             another
             in
             matters
             of
             greater
             consequence
             ,
             then
             any
             have
             ,
             or
             can
             bee
             objected
             truely
             against
             the
             forme
             of
             prayer
             in
             use
             among
             us
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           Lord
           hath
           lessoned
           us
           to
           tolerate
           and
           beare
           with
           many
           humane
           frailties
           not
           onely
           in
           one
           another
           ,
           but
           also
           in
           our
           deare
           brethren
           abroad
           ;
           but
           to
           joyne
           with
           the
           best
           of
           men
           in
           conformitie
           to
           knowne
           and
           grosse
           corruptions
           in
           worshipping
           God
           ,
           or
           to
           stoop
           so
           low
           ,
           to
           the
           insolent
           tyranny
           of
           usurping
           Prelates
           ,
           as
           to
           beare
           on
           our
           backs
           their
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           and
           the
           corruptions
           thereof
           ,
           wee
           confesse
           wee
           have
           not
           yet
           learned
           ,
           and
           now
           wee
           hope
           never
           to
           goe
           to
           that
           schoole
           againe
           to
           learne
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             And
             why
             such
             corruptions
             should
             not
             bee
             ascribed
             to
             humane
             frailtie
             ,
             we
             see
             not
             .
             For
             if
             a
             godly
             Minister
             make
             use
             of
             a
             booke
             ,
             in
             things
             which
             hee
             judges
             lawfull
             for
             matter
             and
             manner
             ,
             the
             corruption
             of
             him
             that
             useth
             it
             ,
             according
             to
             his
             judgement
             ,
             from
             what
             cause
             can
             it
             spring
             but
             humane
             ignorance
             and
             frailtie
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           the
           learned
           replier
           is
           very
           apt
           to
           forget
           the
           termes
           of
           the
           Proposition
           ,
           which
           is
           of
           the
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           not
           of
           some
           things
           in
           it
           ,
           that
           hee
           may
           judge
           lawfull
           ,
           to
           judge
           the
           whole
           lawfull
           ,
           wee
           thinke
           none
           of
           those
           who
           sent
           the
           questions
           doe
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           our
           question
           is
           not
           whether
           the
           Minister
           use
           the
           book
           of
           humane
           frailtie
           ,
           but
           whether
           the
           worship
           offered
           therein
           ,
           bee
           not
           so
           corrupt
           for
           matter
           and
           manner
           ,
           as
           puts
           a
           great
           difference
           betweene
           it
           ,
           and
           the
           prayers
           of
           a
           Minister
           that
           may
           bee
           subject
           to
           faylings
           of
           humane
           frailtie
           .
           Wee
           doubt
           not
           ,
           but
           
             Bilney
             ,
             Latimer
             ,
             &c.
          
           used
           the
           prayers
           and
           ceremonies
           of
           the
           Church
           of
           Rome
           ,
           out
           of
           humane
           frailtie
           ,
           yet
           the
           service
           it selfe
           and
           those
           ceremonies
           of
           holy
           water
           ,
           holy
           bread
           ,
           &c.
           which
           Latimer
           turned
           to
           as
           good
           use
           ,
           as
           hee
           could
           ,
           were
           evill
           and
           no
           way
           to
           bee
           conformed
           unto
           by
           the
           godly
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           there
           are
           many
           things
           done
           of
           others
           through
           humane
           
           frailtie
           ,
           that
           is
           ,
           ignorantly
           and
           in
           some
           measure
           perversely
           ,
           yet
           such
           frailties
           ,
           though
           they
           are
           to
           bee
           very
           long
           tolerated
           in
           the
           man
           ,
           yet
           every
           humane
           frailtie
           is
           not
           so
           to
           bee
           tolerated
           ,
           as
           to
           bee
           communicated
           with
           ;
           for
           the
           grossest
           Idolatry
           in
           Popery
           may
           in
           this
           sense
           ,
           if
           ignorantly
           done
           ,
           be
           accounted
           humane
           frailtie
           .
           It
           is
           true
           ,
           wee
           may
           bee
           freed
           from
           communicating
           in
           anothers
           sinne
           two
           wayes
           .
           1.
           
           By
           bearing
           witnesse
           against
           his
           sinne
           ,
           or
           2ly
           by
           withdrawing
           from
           the
           person
           committing
           it
           .
           There
           were
           times
           wherein
           the
           Lord
           raised
           up
           witnesses
           against
           the
           growing
           abominations
           of
           Antichrist
           for
           many
           yeeres
           ;
           and
           there
           are
           times
           (
           as
           Cameron
           well
           observes
           )
           wherein
           the
           Lord
           commands
           his
           people
           not
           onely
           to
           beare
           witnesse
           ,
           but
           to
           come
           out
           of
           Babylon
           .
           The
           case
           may
           be
           so
           put
           as
           that
           wee
           may
           quit
           our
           hands
           from
           communicating
           with
           other
           men
           ,
           in
           their
           sinfull
           worship
           ,
           by
           bearing
           witnesse
           onely
           against
           the
           sinne
           ,
           yet
           communicating
           with
           them
           in
           the
           rest
           ;
           
             &
             è
             contra
          
           the
           circumstances
           may
           bee
           such
           ,
           as
           that
           wee
           best
           free
           our selves
           from
           sinne
           ,
           by
           withdrawing
           from
           them
           in
           such
           acts
           .
           And
           wee
           freely
           confesse
           wee
           know
           not
           how
           to
           acquit
           others
           that
           communicate
           in
           the
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           without
           the
           one
           or
           the
           other
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Wee
             rest
             assured
             you
             question
             not
             the
             integritie
             of
             many
             ,
             who
             make
             much
             more
             use
             of
             the
             booke
             ,
             then
             onely
             in
             a
             few
             select
             prayers
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           You
           may
           so
           doe
           ,
           and
           wee
           rest
           assured
           you
           question
           not
           the
           integritie
           of
           many
           that
           have
           conformed
           to
           the
           ceremonies
           ,
           yet
           wee
           hope
           you
           will
           not
           justifie
           them
           in
           that
           act
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           we
           doe
           any
           in
           this
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             From
             the
             bottome
             of
             our
             hearts
             ,
             wee
             pray
             that
             the
             Lord
             would
             remove
             out
             of
             his
             Church
             what
             ever
             offends
             ,
             and
             yet
             all
             things
             might
             be
             so
             done
             ,
             as
             might
             be
             approved
             in
             the
             consciences
             of
             all
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           not
           onely
           joyne
           with
           you
           in
           this
           hearty
           desire
           ,
           but
           blesse
           God
           that
           wee
           live
           to
           see
           the
           same
           so
           farre
           accomplished
           in
           a
           good
           part
           of
           England
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           ;
           but
           as
           wee
           are
           perswaded
           the
           growing
           light
           and
           zeale
           of
           many
           godly
           Ministers
           and
           Christians
           ,
           that
           have
           discovered
           the
           evill
           of
           the
           booke
           it selfe
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           ceremonies
           thereof
           ,
           and
           their
           resolute
           rejection
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           was
           one
           blessed
           meanes
           hereof
           ,
           so
           wee
           feare
           the
           pleas
           and
           indeavours
           of
           some
           brethren
           to
           excuse
           it
           and
           the
           use
           of
           it
           ,
           will
           be
           a
           dangerous
           meanes
           to
           uphold
           in
           the
           hearts
           of
           many
           too
           good
           an
           opinion
           of
           it
           ,
           and
           loathnesse
           to
           cast
           it
           quite
           away
           to
           the
           Moles
           and
           Bats
           ,
           from
           whence
           it
           first
           came
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             To
             aggravate
             faults
             ,
             especially
             when
             it
             tends
             to
             draw
             away
             people
             from
             the
             ordinances
             of
             God
             ,
             is
             no
             lesse
             evill
             then
             to
             excuse
             them
             ,
             it
             m●y
             bee
             greater
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           at
           some
           times
           and
           in
           some
           cases
           it
           may
           bee
           so
           ,
           but
           in
           matters
           of
           corrupt
           worship
           ,
           wherein
           God
           is
           so
           jealous
           and
           at
           such
           a
           time
           as
           this
           was
           ;
           when
           the
           burthensome
           corruptions
           of
           humane
           traditions
           so
           violently
           imposed
           on
           the
           Churches
           ,
           grew
           to
           such
           a
           number
           and
           unsupportable
           weight
           to
           the
           consciences
           of
           so
           many
           ,
           wee
           doubt
           not
           to
           affirme
           ,
           that
           now
           extenuations
           were
           farre
           more
           dangerous
           and
           offensive
           to
           the
           Lord
           :
           wee
           cannot
           but
           with
           sad
           hearts
           con●ider
           and
           call
           to
           minde
           how
           many
           weake
           Christians
           have
           ventured
           to
           swallow
           downe
           all
           manner
           of
           humane
           traditions
           and
           worships
           imposed
           upon
           them
           ,
           imboldned
           much
           (
           wee
           feare
           )
           by
           the
           examples
           ,
           if
           not
           the
           reasonings
           of
           many
           godly
           Ministers
           ,
           which
           scandall
           some
           of
           us
           with
           many
           amongst
           you
           have
           have
           cause
           to
           bewayle
           before
           the
           Lord
           and
           give
           satisfaction
           before
           the
           world
           ;
           And
           wee
           hope
           our
           departure
           from
           these
           burdens
           ,
           and
           flight
           into
           these
           wildernesses
           to
           enjoy
           Christ
           in
           more
           pure
           ordinances
           of
           his
           worship
           ,
           and
           the
           witnesse
           wee
           have
           thereby
           borne
           against
           them
           ,
           have
           not
           been
           in
           vaine
           through
           the
           grace
           of
           Jesus
           Christ
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             them
             that
             joyne
             according
             to
             Christs
             command
             (
             and
             libertie
             of
             absence
             from
             Christ
             hath
             not
             been
             shewed
             )
             notwithstanding
             the
             corruptions
             ,
             wee
             hold
             the
             prayers
             to
             bee
             an
             holy
             and
             acceptable
             sacrifice
             to
             the
             Lord
             ,
             and
             pleasing
             to
             Jesus
             Christ
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           How
           any
           man
           can
           joyne
           with
           this
           whole
           Liturgie
           according
           to
           Christs
           command
           ,
           who
           in
           the
           second
           commandement
           forbids
           all
           humane
           devices
           in
           his
           worship
           ,
           whereof
           this
           Liturgie
           is
           so
           full
           ;
           it
           is
           hard
           for
           us
           to
           conceive
           ,
           and
           strange
           to
           see
           it
           affirmed
           :
           and
           that
           Libertie
           from
           Christ
           to
           bee
           absent
           cannot
           bee
           shewed
           .
           The
           whole
           sentence
           as
           it
           standeth
           ,
           wee
           confesse
           to
           us
           seemes
           an
           high
           justification
           thereof
           ,
           which
           wee
           little
           expected
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             corrupt
             sacrifice
             is
             that
             which
             the
             deceiver
             bringeth
             voluntarily
             ,
             and
             our
             of
             neglect
             ,
             having
             a
             male
             in
             his
             flock
             ,
             but
             the
             godly
             bringeth
             himselfe
             and
             godly
             desires
             according
             to
             the
             will
             of
             God
             ,
             and
             the
             corruptions
             in
             matter
             or
             manner
             are
             not
             his
             ,
             they
             cleave
             not
             to
             his
             sacrifice
             to
             staine
             and
             pollute
             it
             .
             The
             Text
             in
          
           Malach.
           1.
           
             is
             misapplyed
             ,
             and
             wee
             desire
             such
             as
             alledge
             this
             passage
             against
             simple
             presence
             at
             the
             prayers
             of
             the
             Liturgie
             ,
             advisedly
             to
             consider
             whether
             God
             allow
             them
             to
             make
             such
             application
             of
             his
             truth
             ,
             which
             we
             much
             doubt
             of
             ,
             to
             say
             no
             more
             ▪
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           That
           people
           joyning
           in
           the
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           voluntarily
           offer
           up
           the
           same
           ,
           wee
           thought
           had
           beene
           no
           question
           :
           If
           any
           joyne
           by
           feare
           and
           compulsion
           (
           though
           the
           will
           in
           this
           case
           is
           not
           forced
           ,
           for
           
             mixta
             actio
          
           is
           voluntaria
           )
           [
           wee
           thinke
           that
           will
           not
           ease
           ,
           but
           aggravate
           the
           evill
           ,
           arguing
           a
           reluctancy
           or
           doubtfulnesse
           at
           least
           in
           his
           conscience
           ,
           and
           so
           what
           hee
           doth
           is
           not
           of
           faith
           ,
           and
           therefore
           sin
           ,
           Rom.
           14.
           ]
           2ly
           .
           What
           you
           say
           of
           the
           faithfull
           here
           ,
           might
           be
           said
           for
           the
           faithful
           in
           Malachi
           his
           time
           ,
           if
           any
           godly
           man
           came
           with
           godly
           desires
           to
           Jerusalem
           to
           worship
           ,
           and
           then
           carelesly
           buy
           and
           take
           a
           corrupt
           sacrifice
           for
           cheapnesse
           ,
           ease
           ,
           &c.
           shall
           hee
           not
           bee
           counted
           (
           at
           least
           in
           part
           )
           this
           deceiver
           ,
           and
           beare
           the
           curse
           ?
           And
           why
           not
           so
           here
           in
           this
           case
           ?
           Let
           a
           man
           bring
           himselfe
           ,
           and
           never
           so
           godly
           desires
           ,
           yet
           if
           hee
           will
           joyne
           in
           a
           knowne
           corrupt
           service
           ,
           will
           his
           godly
           desires
           excuse
           him
           ?
           shall
           not
           his
           broken
           absurd
           responds
           ,
           his
           standing
           at
           the
           Creed
           ,
           kneeling
           at
           the
           Sacrament
           ,
           &c.
           all
           which
           hee
           must
           doe
           ,
           if
           hee
           joyne
           in
           the
           whole
           Liturgie
           ,
           shall
           none
           of
           these
           cleave
           to
           his
           sacrifice
           ?
           what
           though
           the
           Minister
           offer
           the
           service
           ?
           so
           did
           the
           Priest
           the
           sacrifice
           ;
           But
           both
           in
           the
           name
           of
           the
           people
           ,
           and
           they
           joyning
           with
           him
           in
           offering
           the
           same
           to
           God.
           3ly
           .
           Concerning
           Malach.
           1.
           13
           ,
           14.
           the
           more
           advisedly
           wee
           consider
           it
           ,
           the
           more
           perswaded
           wee
           are
           ,
           the
           Lord
           allow
           us
           to
           make
           such
           application
           of
           the
           truth
           contained
           in
           it
           ,
           and
           wee
           thinke
           others
           will
           bee
           of
           our
           mind
           ,
           not
           onely
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           similitude
           that
           is
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           with
           that
           in
           Malachi
           ,
           but
           also
           if
           wee
           consider
           ,
           what
           an
           argument
           the
           Lord
           useth
           to
           convince
           them
           of
           their
           corruptions
           and
           carelesnesse
           in
           his
           service
           ,
           Verse
           11.
           wherein
           the
           Lord
           upbraids
           the
           Jewes
           and
           provokes
           them
           to
           Jealousie
           ,
           as
           the
           Apostle
           Paul
           speakes
           ,
           by
           declaring
           the
           reverend
           esteeme
           of
           his
           name
           amongst
           the
           heathen
           ,
           and
           that
           every
           where
           Incense
           should
           bee
           offered
           and
           a
           pure
           offering
           to
           his
           name
           .
           And
           what
           is
           that
           Incense
           ,
           and
           pure
           offering
           ,
           but
           the
           pure
           prayers
           ,
           and
           worship
           of
           God
           that
           should
           be
           in
           all
           Gentile
           Churches
           under
           the
           Gospell
           ?
           as
           
             Tertullian
             ,
             Eusebius
             ,
             Jerom
          
           and
           Austin
           with
           others
           expound
           it
           .
           And
           hee
           applies
           it
           againe
           ,
           Verse
           14.
           
           I
           am
           a
           great
           King
           ,
           and
           my
           name
           shall
           bee
           great
           amongst
           the
           heathen
           :
           If
           then
           the
           Lord
           oppose
           the
           pure
           prayers
           and
           worship
           of
           Gentile
           Churches
           to
           the
           corrupt
           carelesse
           sacrifices
           of
           the
           Jewes
           ,
           the
           application
           is
           not
           onely
           sutable
           ,
           but
           the
           place
           containes
           a
           sad
           admonition
           to
           all
           Gentile
           Churches
           ,
           that
           by
           their
           corrupt
           worships
           ,
           and
           Incense
           ,
           so
           farre
           frustrate
           (
           as
           it
           were
           )
           Gods
           
           expectation
           and
           glorying
           of
           their
           pure
           oblations
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Your
             third
             Proposition
             .
             That
             as
             you
             are
             very
             tender
             of
             imputing
             sinne
             to
             those
             men
             that
             joyne
             in
             some
             select
             prayers
             read
             by
             an
             able
             and
             godly
             Minister
             ,
             so
             on
             the
             other
             side
             ,
             you
             are
             not
             without
             feare
             ,
             l●st
             such
             joyning
             may
             bee
             found
             unlawfull
             ,
             unlesse
             it
             may
             appeare
             ,
             that
             the
             Ministers
             with
             whom
             they
             have
             communion
             ,
             neither
             give
             scandall
             by
             reading
             them
             ,
             nor
             give
             unlawfull
             honour
             to
             a
             thing
             abused
             to
             Idolatry
             and
             Superstition
             ,
             nor
             doe
             suffer
             themselves
             to
             bee
             sinfully
             limited
             in
             the
             reading
             of
             them
             .
          
        
         
           1
           
             Wee
             cannot
             conceive
             how
             you
             should
             imagine
             the
             practise
             of
             a
             godly
             Minister
             in
             reading
             some
             few
             select
             prayers
             to
             bee
             scandalous
             ,
             or
             offensive
             in
             the
             Congregations
             ,
             when
             the
             people
             generally
             in
             their
             assemblies
             and
             in
             the
             whole
             land
             were
             perswaded
             of
             the
             lawfulnesse
             of
             that
             course
             ,
             till
             now
             of
             late
             times
             some
             have
             beene
             drawne
             away
             to
             separate
             ;
             who
             yet
             by
             warrant
             of
             Scripture
             produce
             nothing
             of
             weight
             ,
             to
             countenance
             that
             practise
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Concerning
           this
           Proposition
           ,
           wee
           doe
           ingenuously
           confesse
           ,
           that
           it
           may
           seeme
           over
           rigid
           and
           tending
           to
           separation
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           will
           not
           wholly
           justifie
           the
           same
           :
           yet
           diverse
           things
           there
           bee
           ,
           which
           may
           much
           mitigate
           the
           seeming
           rigidnesse
           of
           it
           .
        
         
           1
           In
           the
           words
           of
           the
           answer
           ,
           where
           wee
           doe
           not
           determine
           any
           thing
           positively
           ,
           wee
           doe
           not
           impute
           sinne
           to
           any
           in
           such
           a
           case
           ,
           wee
           say
           onely
           that
           wee
           are
           not
           
             without
             feare
          
           ,
           lest
           it
           may
           bee
           found
           unlawfull
           ,
           where
           any
           scandall
           ,
           unlawfull
           honour
           ,
           or
           sinfull
           limiting
           bee
           found
           in
           the
           Ministers
           :
           and
           if
           our
           feares
           bee
           needlesse
           ,
           wee
           hope
           ,
           such
           as
           know
           how
           jealous
           the
           Lord
           is
           in
           matters
           of
           his
           worship
           will
           easily
           forgive
           us
           .
        
         
           2
           Because
           you
           marvell
           wee
           should
           bee
           so
           timerous
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           wee
           shall
           give
           you
           some
           reasons
           of
           it
           ,
           which
           perhaps
           may
           abate
           much
           the
           marvell
           or
           wonder
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           let
           it
           bee
           remembred
           that
           these
           select
           prayers
           are
           yet
           a
           part
           of
           that
           Liturgie
           ,
           which
           is
           acknowledged
           to
           bee
           corrupt
           in
           matter
           and
           manner
           and
           clogged
           with
           such
           evill
           consequences
           as
           are
           afore
           touched
           ;
           Taken
           out
           of
           the
           Masse-booke
           ,
           &c.
           
           And
           Master
           Parker
           (
           who
           was
           no
           separatist
           )
           doubts
           not
           to
           affirme
           ,
           that
           the
           touching
           of
           Antichrists
           things
           maketh
           uncleane
           ,
           for
           which
           hee
           cites
           ,
           2
           
             Cor.
             6.
             17.
             
             Haggai
             2.
             14.
             
             John
             4.
             23.
             
             Park
             .
             of
             the
             Crosse
             ,
             part
             1.
             pag.
          
           137.
           
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           let
           it
           be
           considered
           that
           this
           booke
           is
           imposed
           by
           an
           unlawfull
           Antichristian
           authoritie
           of
           the
           Prelates
           ,
           to
           whom
           to
           give
           place
           and
           subjection
           in
           any
           thing
           is
           justly
           to
           bee
           questioned
           .
           
           And
           wee
           know
           that
           a
           man
           may
           acknowledge
           his
           fealtie
           and
           hold
           his
           Lands
           of
           the
           Lord
           of
           the
           Manner
           by
           a
           small
           rent
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           by
           a
           greater
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           con●ider
           this
           corrupt
           Service-booke
           hath
           beene
           over-long
           tolerated
           and
           borne
           withall
           in
           the
           English
           Churches
           :
           it
           deserveth
           not
           so
           honorable
           a
           buriall
           as
           the
           Jewish
           worship
           :
           but
           hath
           stunke
           above
           ground
           twice
           40.
           yeeres
           ,
           in
           the
           nostrills
           of
           many
           godly
           ,
           who
           breathed
           in
           the
           pure
           ayre
           of
           the
           holy
           Scripture
           ,
           being
           witnessed
           against
           by
           the
           writings
           and
           sufferings
           of
           many
           godly
           Ministers
           and
           Christians
           in
           England
           and
           Scotland
           .
        
         
           Fourthly
           ,
           many
           godly
           men
           (
           it
           is
           well
           knowne
           )
           have
           been
           (
           of
           late
           times
           especially
           )
           offended
           at
           many
           good
           Ministers
           silence
           in
           these
           things
           ,
           that
           they
           would
           no
           more
           plainely
           and
           boldly
           discover
           the
           corruptions
           in
           that
           booke
           ,
           and
           at
           their
           compliance
           with
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           Fiftly
           ,
           these
           are
           times
           of
           more
           light
           ,
           whereby
           the
           Lord
           is
           consuming
           Antichrist
           ,
           with
           the
           breath
           of
           his
           mouth
           .
           And
           therefore
           we
           have
           cause
           the
           more
           to
           feare
           how
           we
           meddle
           with
           any
           thing
           of
           his
           .
        
         
           Sixtly
           ,
           consider
           the
           season
           when
           this
           answer
           was
           sent
           ,
           was
           it
           not
           at
           a
           time
           ,
           when
           superstitious
           opinions
           of
           the
           whole
           booke
           and
           the
           ceremonies
           thereof
           ,
           were
           growne
           to
           a
           great
           height
           in
           the
           mindes
           and
           hearts
           of
           very
           many
           ?
           when
           divers
           superstitious
           Popish
           worships
           ,
           as
           bowing
           at
           the
           name
           of
           Jesus
           ,
           reading
           at
           the
           Table
           set
           Altar-wise
           ,
           &c.
           were
           added
           to
           the
           heape
           of
           former
           corruptions
           ?
           when
           the
           tyranny
           of
           the
           Prelates
           raged
           in
           the
           pressing
           of
           the
           booke
           ,
           and
           their
           other
           humane
           inventions
           ?
           when
           many
           Ministers
           and
           people
           (
           well
           thought
           of
           by
           the
           best
           )
           were
           carried
           away
           shamefully
           with
           these
           things
           ?
           when
           many
           weake
           Christians
           were
           staggering
           and
           wavering
           and
           looking
           at
           the
           judgement
           and
           practise
           of
           their
           guides
           ,
           ready
           to
           stand
           or
           fall
           with
           them
           ?
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           consider
           that
           things
           lawfull
           in
           themselves
           may
           bee
           inexpedient
           ;
           because
           offensive
           in
           their
           use
           ,
           and
           so
           farre
           unlawfull
           ;
           which
           offence
           wee
           chiefly
           looked
           at
           in
           this
           act
           ,
           as
           appeares
           by
           our
           answer
           .
        
         
           Let
           all
           these
           things
           bee
           laid
           together
           and
           weighed
           in
           an
           equall
           ballance
           (
           which
           wee
           hope
           our
           brethren
           are
           now
           at
           some
           libertie
           and
           leasure
           to
           doe
           )
           and
           let
           the
           consciences
           of
           all
           speake
           ,
           whether
           it
           was
           not
           high
           time
           ,
           for
           all
           the
           godly
           in
           England
           to
           take
           unto
           them
           that
           zeale
           and
           courage
           ,
           which
           was
           soone
           after
           in
           our
           Brethren
           
           of
           Scotland
           ,
           to
           cast
           off
           and
           wholly
           abandon
           the
           book
           it self
           and
           all
           the
           formes
           of
           it
           ,
           and
           use
           of
           the
           same
           in
           every
           part
           and
           peece
           thereof
           ?
           At
           least
           wee
           hope
           you
           will
           cease
           to
           marvell
           at
           our
           timerousnesse
           of
           such
           a
           season
           ,
           how
           ever
           wee
           confesse
           ,
           wee
           have
           sometime
           been
           more
           bold
           in
           the
           darke
           .
        
         
           These
           considerations
           premised
           ,
           as
           they
           may
           in
           a
           great
           measure
           abate
           the
           seeming
           rigour
           of
           the
           proposition
           :
           so
           they
           will
           much
           take
           off
           the
           edge
           of
           the
           Reply
           .
           For
           it
           will
           appeare
           that
           all
           conformitie
           of
           Ministers
           and
           people
           to
           any
           parcells
           of
           that
           booke
           ,
           at
           such
           a
           season
           as
           this
           was
           ,
           is
           a
           farre
           differing
           case
           from
           those
           that
           are
           put
           in
           some
           of
           the
           replies
           .
        
         
           1
           To
           the
           first
           reply
           then
           ,
           wherein
           you
           put
           it
           beyond
           imagination
           ,
           that
           such
           a
           practise
           should
           bee
           scandalous
           or
           offensive
           ,
           wee
           know
           not
           what
           you
           have
           observed
           in
           some
           particular
           congregations
           neere
           you
           :
           but
           what
           ever
           have
           beene
           the
           opinions
           of
           men
           formerly
           concerning
           this
           practise
           ,
           yet
           you
           know
           that
           the
           booke
           in
           generall
           hath
           been
           condemned
           of
           all
           godly
           reformers
           ,
           and
           the
           use
           of
           any
           part
           of
           it
           hath
           been
           counted
           burdensome
           to
           many
           for
           the
           reasons
           named
           .
           But
           of
           later
           times
           ,
           as
           the
           booke
           and
           conformitie
           thereto
           was
           urged
           more
           hotly
           ,
           so
           the
           spirits
           of
           very
           many
           grew
           more
           zealous
           against
           it
           ,
           and
           began
           to
           loath
           it
           ,
           and
           to
           withdraw
           wholly
           from
           it
           ;
           many
           very
           inquisitive
           about
           the
           lawfulnesse
           or
           unlawfulnesse
           of
           joyning
           with
           it
           at
           all
           ,
           and
           your selves
           complaine
           of
           the
           withdrawing
           of
           many
           ,
           from
           joyning
           in
           the
           ordinances
           ,
           where
           it
           was
           used
           ,
           so
           that
           wee
           see
           not
           ,
           but
           at
           least
           in
           some
           persons
           and
           at
           some
           places
           and
           times
           it
           might
           probably
           bee
           offensive
           and
           scandalous
           so
           to
           practise
           .
        
         
           2
           Wee
           looked
           not
           onely
           to
           the
           offence
           of
           those
           in
           your
           owne
           congregations
           ,
           but
           to
           the
           imboldning
           and
           hardning
           of
           Papists
           in
           honouring
           any
           part
           of
           their
           portuises
           ,
           above
           the
           formes
           of
           other
           reformed
           Churches
           abroad
           ;
           and
           you
           cannot
           bee
           ignorant
           how
           many
           of
           the
           Lords
           witnesses
           now
           asleepe
           have
           testified
           of
           the
           offence
           and
           danger
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           2
           
             You
             say
             if
             the
             booke
             were
             an
             Idolothyte
             ,
             yet
             latent
             offence
             doth
             not
             oblige
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           offence
           in
           this
           season
           ,
           and
           as
           all
           things
           stand
           ,
           cannot
           bee
           latent
           ,
           complaint
           is
           made
           of
           the
           offence
           taken
           by
           many
           ,
           and
           therefore
           it
           is
           evident
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           3
           
             The
             booke
             so
             farre
             as
             it
             is
             sound
             and
             good
             (
             by
             your
             confession
             )
             is
             no
             Idolothyte
             ,
             nor
             taken
             out
             of
             the
             Masse
             booke
             ,
             in
             such
             sense
             as
             you
             object
             :
          
           
           
             but
             rather
             the
             Masse
             and
             other
             prayers
             added
             to
             it
             ;
             Popery
             is
             a
             sca●
             ▪
             leaving
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             many
             truths
             belonging
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             as
             her
             proper
             Legacy
             ,
             were
             stolne
             ,
             and
             heaped
             together
             in
             that
             Denne
             ;
             And
             why
             the
             true
             man
             may
             not
             challenge
             his
             goods
             where
             ever
             hee
             finde
             them
             ,
             or
             the
             theefe
             plead
             title
             to
             the
             true
             mans
             goods
             by
             prescription
             wee
             know
             not
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           wee
           judge
           the
           whole
           booke
           an
           Idolothyte
           ,
           and
           whence
           you
           gather
           ,
           that
           wee
           confesse
           the
           contrary
           of
           any
           part
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           it
           stands
           apart
           in
           relation
           to
           that
           whole
           ,
           wee
           know
           not
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           it
           was
           taken
           out
           of
           the
           Masse
           booke
           ,
           was
           proved
           by
           the
           confession
           of
           King
           Edward
           ;
           and
           other
           evidences
           are
           many
           ;
           but
           you
           say
           ,
           not
           in
           such
           sense
           as
           wee
           object
           .
           But
           rather
           ,
           
             ●
             contra
             Masse
             ,
             &c.
          
           added
           to
           it
           ,
           &c.
           
           But
           where
           to
           finde
           such
           a
           legacy
           bequeathed
           to
           the
           Church
           in
           the
           Testament
           of
           our
           Lord
           Jesus
           Christ
           ,
           wee
           could
           never
           yet
           see
           :
           So
           that
           wee
           rather
           feare
           all
           those
           formes
           of
           prayer
           ,
           of
           marriage
           ,
           burialls
           ,
           visitations
           of
           the
           sick
           ,
           confirmation
           ,
           &c.
           are
           rather
           the
           copper
           counterfeit
           coyne
           ,
           of
           a
           well
           growne
           Antichrist
           ,
           whereby
           he
           cousened
           the
           Churches
           ,
           when
           hee
           stole
           away
           the
           golden
           Legacy
           of
           Christ
           ,
           rather
           then
           any
           part
           of
           the
           true
           Churches
           Legacy
           :
           and
           therefore
           it
           had
           been
           more
           happy
           for
           the
           Churches
           that
           they
           had
           never
           challenged
           the
           same
           ,
           but
           let
           the
           theefes
           prescription
           to
           have
           been
           a
           good
           plea
           to
           hold
           them
           still
           :
           this
           further
           we
           adde
           ,
           when
           we
           say
           it
           was
           taken
           out
           of
           the
           Masse-booke
           ,
           wee
           understand
           Masse-booke
           in
           a
           large
           sense
           ,
           (
           as
           it
           is
           commonly
           taken
           )
           for
           to
           speake
           narrowly
           it
           was
           collected
           out
           of
           three
           Popish
           bookes
           ,
           the
           first
           part
           of
           publique
           Prayers
           ,
           exbreviario
           ;
           the
           second
           part
           ,
           viz.
           the
           order
           of
           administring
           Sacraments
           ,
           Matrimony
           ,
           visiting
           the
           sick
           and
           burialls
           ,
           
             è
             Rituali
          
           ;
           3.
           the
           order
           of
           consecration
           in
           the
           Supper
           ,
           the
           Epistles
           and
           Gospels
           ,
           and
           Collects
           ,
           
             è
             Missali
          
           ,
           as
           the
           forme
           of
           consecration
           of
           Bishops
           and
           Priests
           was
           taken
           
             è
             Pontificali
          
           ,
           as
           the
           Author
           of
           
             Altare
             Damase
          
           .
           shews
           ,
           pag.
           612.
           
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           because
           those
           words
           ,
           Popery
           is
           a
           scab
           ,
           &c.
           may
           bee
           a
           seed
           of
           much
           evill
           ,
           an
           Egge
           out
           of
           which
           a
           Serpent
           may
           bee
           hatched
           ,
           if
           men
           zealous
           of
           mouldy
           formes
           may
           but
           have
           time
           againe
           to
           set
           upon
           it
           ,
           if
           the
           wheele
           of
           these
           evill
           times
           ,
           (
           through
           Gods
           judgement
           on
           this
           wantonage
           )
           turne
           the
           Prelates
           or
           other
           zelotes
           for
           this
           Liturgie
           uppermost
           ,
           wee
           shall
           therefore
           crave
           libertie
           to
           examine
           this
           speech
           more
           narrowly
           .
           And
           because
           (
           as
           it
           is
           said
           )
           
             unumquodque
             ex
             suâ
             origine
             rectissime
             judicatur
             ,
          
           wee
           shall
           grace
           the
           steps
           of
           the
           first
           times
           and
           so
           downeward
           ,
           to
           see
           what
           
           sound
           parts
           of
           Liturgie
           there
           was
           ,
           on
           which
           this
           scab
           is
           supposed
           to
           grow
           .
        
         
           1.
           
           Our
           blessed
           Saviour
           taught
           his
           Disciples
           a
           blessed
           forme
           ,
           which
           though
           it
           may
           bee
           lawfully
           and
           comfortably
           used
           ,
           the
           rather
           ,
           not
           being
           of
           mans
           ,
           but
           the
           Lords
           composing
           :
           yet
           it
           is
           evident
           hee
           never
           appointed
           his
           people
           to
           use
           it
           as
           their
           onely
           forme
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           Apostles
           in
           the
           primitive
           Church
           ,
           in
           that
           heavenly
           prayer
           ,
           Acts
           4.
           did
           not
           attend
           to
           the
           words
           and
           forme
           of
           this
           prayer
           ,
           though
           they
           might
           have
           this
           in
           their
           eye
           ,
           as
           the
           comon
           rule
           and
           direction
           how
           to
           powre
           out
           their
           prayers
           to
           God
           ,
           for
           particular
           things
           ,
           which
           may
           be
           an
           everlasting
           witnesse
           against
           their
           usurpations
           ,
           that
           will
           limit
           the
           Churches
           to
           their
           formes
           which
           the
           Lord
           Christ
           would
           not
           doe
           to
           his
           owne
           .
        
         
           2.
           
           In
           the
           first
           300.
           yeeres
           after
           Christ
           ,
           wee
           read
           of
           few
           formes
           ,
           that
           the
           Churches
           used
           ,
           and
           those
           rather
           short
           ejaculations
           ,
           then
           set
           formes
           ,
           but
           contrarily
           wee
           read
           frequently
           of
           the
           exercise
           of
           their
           gifts
           in
           prayer
           .
           They
           prayed
           
             sine
             monitore
             ,
             quia
             de
             pectore
             ,
          
           
           saith
           
             Tertullian
             ,
             i.
             e.
          
           They
           prayed
           without
           a
           Promptour
           ,
           because
           from
           the
           heart
           ,
           which
           as
           Zephirus
           observes
           was
           in
           opposition
           to
           the
           prompted
           formes
           then
           in
           use
           amongst
           the
           Pagans
           .
           Wee
           read
           also
           what
           they
           prayed
           for
           ,
           
             viz.
             pro
             inimicis
             ,
             pro
             imperatoribus
             ,
             pro
             statu
             seculi
             ,
             pro
             morâ
             finis
             ,
             &c.
          
           but
           of
           any
           set
           formes
           we
           read
           not
           .
           Their
           persecutions
           and
           dayes
           of
           afflictions
           preserved
           them
           from
           formalitie
           in
           prayer
           ,
           and
           taught
           them
           how
           to
           finde
           their
           hearts
           and
           knees
           ,
           and
           tongues
           ,
           to
           poure
           out
           their
           soules
           to
           God
           ,
           while
           under
           the
           Altar
           they
           were
           pouring
           out
           their
           blood
           .
        
         
           3.
           
           But
           after
           the
           Churches
           had
           enjoyed
           peace
           for
           some
           space
           of
           time
           ,
           (
           wherein
           securitie
           usually
           makes
           insensible
           ,
           and
           insenssblenesse
           formall
           )
           then
           indeed
           wee
           read
           ofset
           and
           imposed
           formes
           ,
           which
           the
           rather
           prevailed
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           grosse
           and
           palpable
           ignorance
           of
           a
           blind
           ministry
           ,
           under
           a
           more
           learned
           Prelacy
           ,
           and
           therefore
           it
           is
           well
           observed
           by
           Chemnitius
           that
           the
           third
           Councell
           of
           Carthage
           decreed
           this
           ;
           
             ut
             nemo
             in
             precibus
             ,
             &c.
             viz.
          
           that
           no
           Minister
           in
           his
           prayers
           either
           names
           the
           Father
           for
           the
           Sonne
           or
           the
           Sonne
           for
           the
           Father
           ,
           but
           when
           hee
           comes
           to
           the
           Altar
           ,
           to
           direct
           his
           prayers
           alwayes
           to
           God
           the
           Father
           ,
           and
           that
           no
           man
           use
           his
           owne
           formes
           ,
           till
           hee
           have
           conferred
           and
           shewed
           his
           formes
           to
           men
           more
           able
           ,
           which
           wee
           finde
           sometime
           to
           bee
           the
           Synod
           .
        
         
         
           4
           After
           these
           times
           they
           added
           the
           commemoration
           of
           Saints
           
           to
           their
           Prayers
           and
           Letanies
           ,
           as
           appears
           from
           manifold
           instances
           ,
           whereof
           take
           but
           this
           one
           imputed
           to
           
             Chrysostome
             :
             Sanctissimae
             Deiparae
             &
             semper
             Virginis
             Mariae
             ,
             cum
             omnibus
             sanctis
             ,
             memoriam
             agentes
             ,
             nos
             ipsos
             &
             omnem
             vitam
             nostram
             Christo
             Deo
             nostro
             commendamus
             .
          
           Which
           Letanies
           at
           first
           being
           used
           more
           seldome
           at
           some
           times
           of
           the
           year
           ,
           afterwards
           grew
           into
           ordinary
           use
           ,
           to
           every
           end
           of
           which
           the
           people
           added
           ,
           Lord
           have
           mercy
           upon
           us
           ,
           and
           
             Exaudi
             Domine
          
           ,
           We
           beseech
           thee
           to
           hear
           us
           good
           Lord.
           
        
         
           5
           From
           commemoration
           of
           Saints
           ,
           (
           being
           so
           near
           the
           brink
           )
           they
           soon
           came
           on
           to
           invocation
           of
           them
           ,
           first
           in
           private
           prayers
           ,
           then
           in
           publick
           ,
           and
           that
           by
           degrees
           .
           For
           first
           ,
           they
           called
           upon
           Christ
           to
           hear
           their
           intercessions
           for
           them
           .
           
             Intercessionibus
             Sanctorum
             t●orum
             ,
             Salvator
             ,
             salva
             nos
             :
          
           and
           thence
           they
           fell
           to
           direct
           and
           immediate
           invocation
           of
           them
           .
           
             Maria
             Deo
             supplica
             ,
             ut
             animas
             nostras
             salvet
             .
          
        
         
           6
           At
           last
           they
           became
           so
           superstitious
           in
           their
           Letanies
           or
           Liturgies
           ,
           that
           praying
           was
           magnified
           above
           all
           preaching
           ,
           and
           almost
           all
           preaching
           was
           changed
           into
           formall
           ,
           corrupt
           ,
           and
           blind
           praying
           ;
           and
           thus
           it
           was
           generally
           in
           the
           Churches
           ,
           till
           about
           the
           sixt
           Century
           ,
           as
           (
           if
           need
           were
           )
           might
           be
           shewed
           at
           large
           .
        
         
           7
           Though
           other
           Churches
           were
           thus
           over-grown
           with
           Forms
           of
           Worship
           ,
           yet
           the
           Roman
           Bishops
           especially
           ,
           did
           multiply
           Forms
           and
           superstitious
           Rites
           excessively
           .
           Rome
           being
           (
           in
           Gods
           secret
           Providence
           )
           left
           to
           become
           the
           very
           seat
           and
           throne
           of
           Antichrist
           .
           The
           Bishops
           themselves
           also
           finding
           it
           exceeding
           hard
           to
           bring
           in
           the
           Religion
           of
           Christ
           ,
           without
           conforming
           to
           the
           Pagan
           rites
           ,
           as
           Casaubon
           observes
           .
           For
           it
           appears
           even
           in
           the
           time
           of
           Theodosius
           ,
           wherein
           Christianity
           was
           risen
           to
           a
           great
           head
           ,
           the
           
           Senate
           being
           sent
           unto
           by
           him
           to
           renounce
           their
           Pagan
           Religion
           ,
           and
           receive
           the
           law
           of
           Christ
           ,
           they
           returned
           answer
           that
           they
           would
           not
           ,
           but
           that
           they
           would
           observe
           the
           ancient
           law
           Pompilian
           ,
           to
           avoid
           the
           ruine
           of
           the
           Common-wealth
           ,
           which
           they
           feared
           might
           come
           by
           the
           change
           of
           Religion
           .
           The
           Roman
           Bishops
           also
           for
           400
           years
           together
           ,
           could
           never
           obtain
           of
           the
           Senate
           ,
           nor
           multitudes
           of
           the
           Roman
           Idolaters
           ,
           to
           renounce
           their
           inveterate
           Idolatry
           ,
           and
           receive
           the
           Gospel
           .
           Hence
           they
           conformed
           their
           Rites
           and
           Ceremonies
           to
           the
           Pagan
           and
           Idolatrous
           customes
           ,
           the
           better
           to
           allure
           them
           to
           Christ
           according
           to
           their
           carnalll
           policy
           .
           
           We
           finde
           all
           the
           principal
           parts
           of
           the
           Masse
           to
           be
           borrowed
           from
           the
           Idolatrous
           Pagans
           ,
           and
           to
           have
           their
           originall
           from
           
             Numa
             Pompilius
          
           that
           Conjurer
           ,
           who
           lived
           700
           years
           before
           Christ
           ,
           to
           adorn
           and
           deck
           (
           as
           the
           Bishops
           thought
           )
           the
           Religion
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           ,
           to
           the
           which
           with
           much
           ado
           at
           last
           the
           Romans
           were
           converted
           .
           To
           which
           principall
           parts
           ,
           viz.
           Vestments
           ,
           Holy-water
           ,
           the
           Con●iteo●
           ,
           Organs
           ,
           Incense
           ,
           Offertory
           ,
           &c.
           other
           deckings
           were
           added
           also
           ,
           as
           divers
           Letanies
           ,
           and
           the
           Kurie
           Elyson
           to
           be
           sung
           nine
           times
           ,
           invented
           by
           Gregory
           a
           Monk
           at
           first
           ,
           well
           studied
           in
           the
           laws
           of
           Num●
           and
           
             Tullus
             Hostilius
             :
             Damasus
          
           (
           as
           Platina
           and
           Sabellius
           shew
           )
           inriched
           it
           with
           
             Gloria
             Patri
             ,
             &c.
             i.
             e.
          
           Glory
           be
           to
           the
           Father
           ,
           Son
           ,
           and
           Holy
           Ghost
           .
           Sergius
           ,
           with
           an
           
             Agnus
             Dei
          
           ,
           to
           be
           sung
           three
           times
           .
           Alexander
           and
           other
           Bishops
           added
           the
           Canon
           of
           the
           Masse
           ;
           others
           ,
           the
           Epistles
           and
           Gospels
           :
           The
           Graduall
           and
           Collects
           were
           added
           by
           
             Gelasius
             ,
             anno
          
           493.
           
           The
           
             Gloria
             in
             excelsis
          
           by
           Symmachus
           508.
           
           At
           last
           came
           the
           Host
           in
           about
           1062.
           
           Much
           more
           might
           be
           said
           .
           All
           which
           when
           we
           consider
           ,
           we
           confess
           we
           are
           pus●ed
           to
           discern
           the
           difference
           between
           the
           sound
           part
           and
           the
           scab
           .
           For
           if
           the
           principal
           formalities
           of
           the
           Masse
           (
           out
           of
           which
           our
           Liturgy
           was
           taken
           ;
           as
           is
           confessed
           )
           arose
           out
           of
           a
           politick
           push
           to
           conform
           the
           Christian
           to
           the
           Pagan
           Religion
           ,
           and
           the
           deckings
           of
           it
           ,
           from
           the
           itching
           humor
           of
           the
           Roman
           busie
           Bishops
           ,
           admirers
           of
           humane
           inventions
           and
           Ceremonies
           ;
           let
           the
           Reader
           then
           judge
           what
           sound
           parts
           are
           left
           beside
           the
           scab
           .
           We
           do
           not
           speak
           this
           to
           condemn
           everything
           for
           the
           matter
           ▪
           of
           it
           that
           is
           in
           the
           Common-Prayer-book
           :
           Yea
           ,
           we
           honor
           the
           affection
           and
           piety
           of
           the
           first
           Reformers
           ,
           and
           the
           godly
           then
           ,
           that
           were
           glad
           to
           hear
           Prayers
           in
           their
           own
           tongue
           ,
           and
           according
           to
           the
           glimmering
           light
           of
           those
           times
           ,
           aymed
           at
           the
           winning
           of
           Papists
           to
           the
           true
           Religion
           by
           such
           a
           Form
           of
           Worship
           .
           But
           now
           since
           experience
           hath
           taught
           ,
           it
           rather
           hardens
           them
           against
           the
           truth
           ,
           then
           draws
           them
           toward
           it
           ;
           when
           we
           see
           the
           pressing
           of
           it
           is
           rather
           a
           temptation
           to
           conform
           to
           Popery
           ,
           then
           otherwise
           ;
           we
           verily
           beleeve
           ,
           if
           they
           had
           lived
           in
           these
           times
           of
           further
           light
           ,
           they
           would
           have
           born
           witnesse
           against
           it
           ,
           as
           others
           have
           done
           .
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           though
           the
           originall
           had
           been
           good
           (
           which
           yet
           is
           contrary
           )
           we
           may
           answer
           in
           the
           words
           of
           
             Peter
             Martyr
          
           ,
           to
           such
           as
           did
           plead
           for
           a
           lawfull
           presence
           at
           Masse
           ,
           because
           the
           originall
           
           was
           good
           ;
           who
           answers
           thus
           :
           
             In
             ●isce
             re●us
             non
             ●rigo
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           In
           
           these
           matters
           ,
           not
           the
           Originall
           ,
           but
           the
           Nature
           is
           to
           be
           considered
           ;
           for
           the
           brasen
           Serpent
           had
           its
           originall
           from
           God
           ,
           and
           was
           honored
           with
           miraculous
           works
           :
           yet
           when
           abused
           ,
           
             Piis
             hominibus
             redditus
             est
             detestabilis
          
           ,
           it
           became
           (
           most
           )
           loathsome
           to
           godly
           men
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             no
             hard
             ta●k
             to
             shew
             ,
             that
             our
             Service-book
             was
             reformed
             in
             most
             things
             ,
             according
             to
             the
             purest
             Liturgies
             which
             were
             in
             use
             in
             the
             Church
             ,
             long
             before
             the
             Masse
             was
             heard
             of
             in
             the
             world
             .
             And
             if
             that
             could
             not
             be
             shewed
             ,
             yet
             forms
             of
             speech
             generally
             taken
             (
             we
             speak
             not
             of
             this
             or
             that
             speciall
             word
             or
             phrase
             )
             is
             no
             more
             defiled
             by
             Idolatry
             ,
             then
             the
             light
             ,
             air
             ,
             or
             place
             where
             Idolatry
             is
             committed
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           is
           just
           cause
           of
           grief
           unto
           us
           ,
           that
           this
           reverend
           Author
           should
           thus
           use
           the
           Prelates
           plea
           for
           Surplice
           and
           other
           Ceremonies
           ,
           to
           justifie
           this
           corrupt
           Liturgy
           ;
           for
           these
           were
           before
           the
           Masse
           ,
           and
           many
           other
           Idols
           of
           the
           Papists
           :
           and
           though
           a
           phrase
           o●
           word
           be
           not
           polluted
           by
           their
           use
           of
           it
           ;
           yet
           a
           needless
           Ceremony
           ,
           and
           so
           a
           devised
           Form
           of
           Worship
           ,
           and
           a
           bundle
           of
           Ceremonious
           and
           corrupt
           Worships
           ,
           must
           needs
           be
           polluted
           by
           the
           use
           of
           them
           ;
           better
           to
           use
           the
           Forms
           of
           Turks
           then
           Papists
           ,
           saith
           
             Cartw.
             supra
          
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fourthly
           ,
           
             put
             case
             the
             Minister
             in
             reading
             give
             offence
             ,
             give
             unlawfull
             honor
             to
             a
             thing
             abused
             to
             Idolatry
             ,
             and
             suffer
             himself
             to
             be
             sinfully
             limited
             in
             reading
             ?
             what
             is
             that
             to
             the
             faithfull
             ?
             This
             can
             be
             no
             ground
             that
             the
             people
             may
             not
             joyn
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           doe
           not
           conclude
           that
           they
           doe
           sin
           ,
           but
           fearfull
           we
           are
           lest
           they
           may
           so
           do
           ;
           all
           things
           considered
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           as
           have
           been
           before
           propounded
           .
           If
           indeed
           the
           case
           stood
           as
           formerly
           it
           hath
           done
           in
           England
           ,
           we
           would
           have
           been
           lesse
           scrupulous
           and
           doubtfull
           of
           the
           matter
           :
           but
           if
           by
           the
           out-breaking
           of
           light
           ,
           after
           so
           long
           toleration
           of
           the
           book
           ,
           we
           see
           so
           many
           evill
           effects
           of
           it
           ,
           and
           see
           such
           superstitious
           opinions
           of
           it
           increasing
           ,
           and
           such
           pressing
           the
           same
           to
           the
           oppression
           of
           the
           Churches
           ,
           so
           many
           fall
           ,
           so
           many
           weak
           ones
           stagger
           ,
           and
           look
           at
           the
           example
           of
           their
           Guides
           :
           if
           now
           when
           all
           are
           called
           of
           God
           to
           rise
           up
           against
           it
           with
           zeal
           and
           detestation
           ,
           a
           Minister
           godly
           and
           able
           will
           use
           any
           part
           of
           it
           with
           offence
           ,
           &c.
           we
           suppose
           we
           had
           cause
           to
           fear
           and
           leave
           it
           doubtfull
           ,
           whether
           the
           godly
           might
           lawfully
           joyn
           with
           them
           therein
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           desire
           you
           to
           call
           back
           your
           sharp
           censure
           of
           such
           withdrawing
           ,
           as
           you
           conclude
           this
           passage
           withall
           ,
           or
           else
           we
           shal
           appeal
           to
           the
           reverend
           Assembly
           of
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           their
           late
           and
           godly
           Directory
           herein
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fifthly
           ,
           
             If
             these
             ,
             and
             such
             like
             scruples
             make
             it
             unlawfull
             to
             joyn
             in
             the
             ordinance
             of
             Worship
             ,
             we
             must
             hold
             communion
             with
             no
             society
             under
             heaven
             .
             For
             may
             not
             the
             brethren
             which
             hold
             all
             stinted
             Liturgies
             and
             set
             Forms
             unlawfull
             ,
             say
             with
             like
             reason
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             lawfull
             to
             joyn
             with
             others
             in
             conceived
             Prayers
             ,
             if
             they
             give
             too
             little
             honor
             to
             it
             ,
             as
             conceiving
             the
             other
             lawful
             ,
             or
             sinfully
             limiting
             themselves
             to
             one
             stinted
             Form
             ,
             though
             conceived
             at
             first
             by
             themselves
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           must
           in
           treat
           the
           Christian
           Reader
           still
           to
           carry
           in
           minde
           with
           what
           tendernesse
           we
           offered
           our selves
           in
           this
           point
           ,
           and
           upon
           what
           considerations
           we
           durst
           not
           wholly
           excuse
           and
           cleare
           such
           joyning
           as
           the
           case
           now
           stood
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           think
           these
           reasonings
           would
           be
           far
           differing
           from
           the
           case
           in
           hand
           ,
           and
           we
           would
           not
           be
           taken
           so
           as
           to
           justifie
           such
           rigid
           principles
           as
           these
           are
           .
           We
           heartily
           joyn
           in
           the
           conclusion
           ,
           that
           such
           advancing
           of
           small
           differences
           ,
           would
           indeed
           bring
           all
           to
           confusion
           ,
           and
           we
           are
           far
           (
           we
           hope
           )
           from
           any
           such
           meaning
           .
           If
           our
           answer
           in
           this
           or
           any
           other
           passage
           ,
           give
           just
           advantage
           to
           such
           separations
           ,
           we
           are
           heartily
           sorry
           for
           it
           ;
           but
           we
           hope
           what
           hath
           been
           said
           will
           satisfie
           the
           ingenuous
           and
           Christian
           Reader
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Sixthly
           ,
           
             we
             have
             credibly
             heard
             ,
             that
             you
             hold
             fellowship
             with
             professed
             rigid
             separatists
             ,
             without
             acknowledging
             of
             their
             error
             ,
             and
             receive
             them
             as
             members
             ,
             or
             communicate
             with
             them
             in
             the
             priviledges
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             though
             you
             professe
             you
             approve
             not
             their
             opinion
             or
             practice
             :
             and
             if
             in
             godly
             wisdome
             you
             can
             see
             grounds
             to
             joyn
             with
             them
             ,
             we
             marvail
             you
             should
             be
             so
             timerous
             in
             this
             particular
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Although
           in
           many
           of
           our
           Churches
           we
           know
           not
           that
           there
           be
           any
           such
           professed
           rigid
           Separatists
           ,
           that
           reject
           the
           Churches
           of
           England
           ,
           as
           no
           Churches
           ;
           and
           their
           Ministers
           ,
           as
           no
           true
           Ministers
           ;
           yet
           we
           deny
           not
           but
           some
           such
           there
           may
           bee
           in
           some
           of
           the
           Churches
           .
           Whence
           we
           grant
           it
           may
           follow
           that
           we
           can
           have
           communion
           in
           Gods
           Worship
           with
           men
           of
           severall
           judgments
           ,
           yet
           we
           may
           be
           justly
           timerous
           of
           joyning
           or
           approving
           others
           to
           joyn
           in
           any
           part
           of
           a
           corrupt
           Worship
           ,
           in
           case
           of
           scandall
           ,
           &c.
           we
           think
           these
           things
           have
           not
           the
           same
           face
           or
           shew
           of
           reason
           in
           them
           ;
           and
           therefore
           so
           long
           as
           they
           live
           peaceably
           with
           us
           ,
           we
           can
           well
           have
           fellowship
           with
           them
           ,
           as
           we
           have
           also
           with
           other
           ,
           that
           think
           (
           it
           may
           be
           )
           better
           of
           the
           Churches
           and
           wayes
           of
           it
           ,
           then
           there
           is
           cause
           ,
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           corruptions
           thereof
           ;
           so
           we
           be
           not
           bound
           to
           approve
           their
           opinions
           ,
           nor
           conform
           to
           any
           of
           their
           corrupt
           practises
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Seventhly
           ,
           
             if
             to
             administer
             in
             a
             stinted
             Form
             be
             scandalous
             to
             such
             as
             separate
             ,
             it
             is
             scandall
             taken
             ,
             not
             given
             ;
             and
             we
             should
             do
             it
             the
             rather
             ,
             that
             they
             be
             not
             confirmed
             in
             their
             error
             ,
             the
             truth
             be
             not
             prejudiced
             ,
             needless
             scruples
             occasioned
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           This
           is
           from
           the
           question
           ,
           for
           we
           dispute
           of
           your
           Liturgy
           ,
           not
           of
           any
           Liturgy
           or
           stinted
           Form.
           
        
         
           2
           Take
           in
           the
           case
           in
           all
           its
           circumstances
           ,
           (
           as
           before
           declared
           )
           and
           it
           will
           appear
           scandall
           may
           be
           given
           ;
           at
           least
           we
           put
           the
           case
           of
           a
           scandall
           really
           given
           .
        
         
           3
           How
           far
           a
           man
           in
           some
           cases
           of
           clear
           and
           undoubted
           truths
           may
           do
           a
           thing
           ,
           the
           rather
           for
           such
           reasons
           ,
           though
           others
           take
           offence
           ,
           we
           will
           not
           dispute
           :
           but
           if
           for
           meat
           (
           or
           by
           use
           of
           our
           liberty
           by
           eating
           of
           such
           meat
           ,
           as
           another
           accounts
           unclean
           )
           we
           may
           destroy
           the
           work
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           therefore
           must
           not
           eat
           flesh
           ,
           nor
           drink
           wine
           ,
           nor
           any
           thing
           whereby
           a
           brother
           stumble
           ,
           &c.
           Rom.
           14
           14
           ,
           15
           ,
           20
           ,
           21.
           how
           dangerous
           then
           to
           use
           such
           corrupt
           Forms
           of
           Worship
           ,
           or
           any
           part
           thereof
           ,
           so
           much
           the
           rather
           ,
           when
           a
           weak
           brother
           stumbles
           at
           them
           ,
           we
           leave
           it
           to
           the
           Christian
           Reader
           to
           judge
           ,
           we
           doubt
           it
           will
           not
           agree
           with
           the
           rules
           of
           charity
           prescribed
           
             Rom.
             14.
             1
             
             Cor.
          
           8.
           
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           III.
           
        
         
           
             3
             Position
             .
          
           
             That
             the
             children
             of
             godly
             and
             approved
             Christians
             are
             not
             :
             to
             be
             baptized
             ,
             untill
             their
             Parents
             be
             set
             members
             of
             some
             particular
             Congregation
             .
          
           
             4
             
               That
               the
               Parents
               themselves
               ,
               though
               of
               approved
               piety
               ,
               are
               not
               to
               be
               received
               ▪
               to
               the
               Lords-supper
               ,
               untill
               they
               be
               admitted
               as
               set
               members
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             WHat
             is
             here
             premised
             to
             prevent
             mistakes
             ,
             doth
             seem
             more
             to
             raise
             ,
             then
             to
             abate
             scruples
             .
             You
             refuse
             not
             all
             communion
             with
             all
             that
             are
             not
             Church-members
             ,
             and
             so
             much
             they
             professe
             who
             formerly
             have
             gone
             for
             ,
             and
             professed
             themselves
             Separatists
             from
             our
             assemblies
             ;
             you
             doe
             not
             appropriate
             these
             priviledges
             of
             the
             seals
             onely
             to
             members
             of
             your
             own
             Churches
             ,
             &c.
             
             If
             you
             mean
             onely
             that
             the
             Sacraments
             administred
             in
             other
             Churches
             be
             true
             for
             substance
             ;
             it
             is
             no
             more
             then
             you
             will
             confesse
             of
          
           Rome
           .
           
             If
             you
             deny
             not
             fellowship
             with
             them
             in
             the
             seals
             ,
             and
          
           
           
             to
             receive
             them
             to
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             your
             judgement
             is
             against
             your
             practise
             ,
             or
             you
             exclude
             the
             Churches
             of
          
           England
           
             from
             the
             number
             of
             true
             Churches
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           see
           not
           how
           such
           scruples
           could
           be
           raised
           without
           great
           mistake
           of
           our
           meaning
           ,
           our
           expressions
           were
           so
           plain
           and
           distinct
           .
           For
           ,
        
         
           1
           What
           if
           some
           Separatists
           admit
           private
           communion
           with
           such
           ,
           yet
           they
           reject
           your
           Churches
           and
           Ministery
           as
           null
           ,
           which
           we
           doe
           not
           .
           And
           many
           of
           them
           have
           refused
           also
           such
           private
           communion
           .
        
         
           2
           We
           marvail
           how
           you
           could
           fall
           into
           such
           a
           mistake
           ,
           as
           to
           suppose
           we
           onely
           allow
           the
           truth
           of
           Sacraments
           for
           substance
           in
           other
           Churches
           ,
           when
           we
           speak
           in
           the
           same
           sentence
           of
           receiving
           satisfaction
           by
           Letters
           ,
           or
           otherwise
           concerning
           those
           we
           admit
           to
           the
           seales
           ;
           which
           plainly
           shew
           we
           speak
           of
           communion
           with
           such
           Churches
           .
        
         
           3
           Concerning
           fellowship
           with
           those
           Churches
           ,
           we
           may
           admit
           members
           of
           them
           to
           the
           seales
           with
           us
           ,
           when
           we
           cannot
           always
           joyn
           with
           them
           in
           their
           administrations
           ,
           by
           reason
           of
           some
           sinfull
           corruptions
           ,
           wherein
           we
           must
           have
           actuall
           fellowship
           with
           them
           ;
           as
           your selves
           would
           not
           joyn
           ,
           in
           case
           you
           must
           kneel
           at
           the
           Lords-supper
           .
        
         
           4
           Concerning
           the
           Dilemma
           .
           We
           answer
           ;
           1
           Our
           practice
           is
           not
           crosse
           to
           this
           profession
           .
           For
           such
           as
           come
           recommended
           from
           forein
           Churches
           ,
           and
           give
           such
           satisfaction
           as
           is
           meet
           ,
           we
           doe
           receive
           ;
           and
           such
           as
           have
           wholly
           cast
           off
           all
           relation
           to
           English
           Churches
           ,
           and
           live
           amongst
           us
           ,
           we
           have
           looked
           at
           as
           scattered
           stones
           ,
           till
           they
           joyn
           some
           where
           in
           a
           Church
           ;
           and
           themselves
           generally
           so
           judge
           of
           themselves
           ;
           but
           if
           any
           will
           hold
           to
           their
           membership
           in
           England
           ,
           and
           come
           orderly
           to
           communion
           with
           us
           ,
           we
           have
           not
           ,
           no●
           shall
           not
           under
           that
           notion
           refuse
           them
           ,
           if
           they
           be
           fit
           for
           the
           ordinances
           ;
           and
           therefore
           we
           exclude
           not
           the
           English
           Churches
           out
           of
           the
           number
           ,
           and
           herein
           we
           deal
           no
           otherwise
           with
           them
           ,
           then
           with
           the
           members
           of
           our
           owne
           Churches
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             All
             possible
             care
             to
             keep
             the
             ordinances
             of
             God
             from
             contempt
             ,
             we
             allow
             and
             commend
             ,
             so
             you
             deny
             not
             Church
             priviledges
             ,
             to
             whom
             they
             are
             due
             ,
             nor
             the
             name
             of
             Churches
             to
             such
             as
             God
             hath
             blessed
             with
             meanes
             of
             grace
             ,
             and
             have
             r●ceived
             the
             Tables
             and
             Seales
             ,
             and
             entred
             Covenant
             with
             God.
             Your
             liberty
             to
             receive
             such
             satisfaction
             as
             is
          
           
           
             meet
             ,
             is
             not
             questioned
             ,
             nor
             whether
             you
             are
             to
             keep
             the
             bond
             of
             the
             spirit
             inviolable
             according
             to
             order
             :
             but
             whether
             this
             be
             according
             to
             ▪
             order
             ,
             to
             exclude
             from
             the
             Sacrament
             true
             visible
             Christians
             ,
             or
             known
             recommended
             Christians
             ,
             formerly
             members
             of
             visible
             Churches
             amongst
             us
             ,
             and
             their
             children
             ;
             and
             to
             put
             such
             difference
             between
             them
             ,
             and
             such
             as
             are
             in
             your
             Church
             order
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           If
           the
           learned
           Author
           would
           hold
           to
           what
           here
           is
           granted
           ,
           we
           hope
           this
           controversie
           would
           soon
           be
           at
           an
           issue
           ;
           but
           it
           will
           appear
           after
           this
           order
           allowed
           binds
           onely
           in
           case
           of
           the
           Ministers
           to
           dispense
           Sacraments
           ,
           but
           Christians
           are
           left
           at
           a
           loose
           end
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           combining
           themselves
           unto
           particular
           Churches
           according
           to
           the
           order
           of
           Christ
           ,
           which
           is
           the
           thing
           wee
           plead
           for
           .
        
         
           2
           We
           have
           not
           denyed
           the
           name
           of
           Churches
           to
           such
           as
           are
           said
           to
           have
           plentifully
           the
           means
           of
           grace
           ,
           Tables
           ,
           Seales
           ,
           and
           Covenant
           .
        
         
           3
           Concerning
           the
           stating
           of
           the
           question
           ,
           too
           much
           liberty
           is
           taken
           ,
           as
           in
           other
           cases
           ;
           for
           neither
           in
           the
           Position
           ,
           or
           in
           our
           Answer
           ,
           doe
           we
           limit
           the
           question
           to
           members
           in
           our
           Church
           order
           ,
           (
           as
           here
           it
           is
           called
           )
           but
           expresly
           extend
           the
           same
           to
           other
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           ,
           though
           through
           error
           or
           humane
           frailty
           ,
           defective
           in
           matters
           of
           order
           ,
           yea
           ,
           to
           the
           members
           of
           any
           true
           Church
           ,
           as
           in
           the
           Answer
           is
           said
           .
           2.
           
           Concerning
           such
           as
           come
           over
           ,
           and
           are
           for
           a
           time
           without
           Seales
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           because
           we
           refuse
           communion
           with
           them
           ,
           as
           being
           members
           of
           your
           Churches
           known
           ,
           or
           recommended
           Christians
           ,
           as
           you
           say
           .
           For
           if
           any
           godly
           man
           remaining
           a
           member
           in
           any
           true
           Church
           with
           you
           ,
           or
           elswhere
           ,
           come
           so
           recommended
           ,
           or
           be
           well
           known
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           we
           never
           under
           that
           notion
           refuse
           any
           ,
           but
           giving
           such
           other
           satisfaction
           as
           is
           meet
           ,
           shall
           readily
           receive
           them
           ,
           as
           we
           always
           professe
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           must
           still
           call
           for
           attendance
           to
           the
           state
           of
           this
           question
           in
           its
           right
           terms
           ,
           viz.
           whether
           the
           children
           of
           godly
           parents
           ,
           or
           themselves
           though
           of
           approved
           piety
           ,
           are
           to
           be
           admitted
           to
           the
           seales
           ,
           not
           being
           members
           of
           some
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           or
           untill
           they
           be
           such
           .
        
      
       
         
         
           CHAP.
           IV.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             first
             consideration
             :
             If
             by
             the
             Church
             be
             understood
             the
             society
             of
             men
             professing
             the
             entire
             faith
             ,
             the
             seales
             are
             given
             to
             it
             ,
             as
             peculiar
             priviledges
             ,
             but
             if
             you
             understand
             a
             Congregationall
             assembly
             ,
             the
             seales
             were
             never
             appropriated
             to
             it
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Our
           meaning
           is
           plain
           in
           the
           second
           sense
           ,
           as
           may
           appear
           by
           the
           reasons
           alledged
           against
           any
           such
           universall
           Church
           ,
           as
           instituted
           and
           politicall
           ,
           wherein
           the
           seales
           are
           dispensed
           ,
           which
           reasons
           you
           answer
           not
           ,
           but
           grant
           there
           is
           no
           such
           Catholick
           Church
           in
           our
           sense
           ,
           pag.
           21.
           
           And
           if
           no
           such
           Church
           wherein
           the
           seales
           are
           administred
           ,
           as
           we
           proved
           ,
           then
           the
           cause
           it self
           is
           yeelded
           ,
           and
           the
           seales
           must
           belong
           to
           particular
           Churches
           .
        
         
           2.
           
           Seeing
           the
           main
           hinge
           of
           this
           question
           turns
           upon
           this
           point
           ,
           to
           what
           Church
           the
           administration
           and
           participation
           of
           the
           seals
           belong
           ,
           wee
           shall
           a
           little
           further
           open
           our selves
           in
           this
           point
           .
           And
           because
           we
           affect
           and
           study
           peace
           with
           truth
           ;
           we
           shall
           freely
           acknowledge
           ,
        
         
           First
           ,
           that
           as
           there
           is
           an
           invisible
           Church
           and
           Body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           consisting
           of
           all
           the
           elect
           ,
           effectually
           called
           throughout
           the
           world
           in
           all
           ages
           of
           it
           ,
           the
           whole
           family
           in
           heaven
           and
           earth
           :
           so
           unto
           Jesus
           Christ
           ,
           all
           the
           visible
           beleevers
           and
           Churches
           of
           the
           world
           ,
           are
           as
           one
           body
           to
           him
           ,
           he
           governing
           ,
           protecting
           ,
           instructing
           all
           as
           his
           visible
           body
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           we
           acknowledge
           a
           visible
           communion
           of
           all
           the
           true
           Churches
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           ,
           in
           all
           offices
           of
           brotherly
           love
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           holy
           things
           of
           Christ
           ,
           so
           far
           as
           may
           appear
           ,
           the
           Lord
           have
           ordained
           and
           commanded
           ,
           and
           by
           his
           Providence
           called
           them
           to
           exercise
           one
           with
           another
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           we
           grant
           that
           all
           true
           beleevers
           ,
           where-ever
           they
           bee
           ,
           have
           by
           faith
           in
           Christ
           ,
           a
           true
           right
           and
           interest
           unto
           Jesus
           Christ
           and
           all
           his
           benefits
           ,
           whatsoever
           he
           hath
           purchased
           for
           them
           ;
           but
           here
           we
           must
           first
           distinguish
           of
           these
           benefits
           of
           Christ
           ,
           whereof
           some
           are
           meerly
           spirituall
           ,
           inward
           ,
           and
           flowing
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           unto
           them
           ;
           and
           therefore
           peculiar
           to
           true
           beleevers
           ,
           as
           justification
           ,
           sanctification
           ,
           adoption
           ,
           accesse
           to
           God
           in
           prayer
           ,
           &c.
           some
           are
           outward
           and
           tending
           to
           the
           help
           and
           furtherance
           of
           our
           spirituall
           communion
           with
           Christ
           ,
           being
           outward
           and
           visible
           meanes
           thereof
           ;
           and
           therefore
           are
           also
           extended
           to
           
           hypocrites
           being
           visible
           beleevers
           ,
           as
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           Seals
           ,
           Church-discipline
           ,
           &c.
           
           And
           these
           cannot
           be
           dispensed
           by
           Christ
           immediately
           nor
           ordinarily
           ,
           but
           by
           means
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           .
           2.
           
           We
           distinguish
           of
           right
           to
           these
           outward
           benefits
           of
           Christ
           ;
           which
           is
           either
           remote
           ,
           called
           ,
           
             jus
             ad
             rem
          
           ;
           or
           near
           ,
           and
           immediate
           ,
           called
           ,
           
             jus
             in
             r●
          
           ;
           right
           to
           the
           enjoyment
           and
           fruition
           of
           it
           .
           Now
           in
           the
           first
           sense
           we
           grant
           ,
           all
           visible
           beleevers
           have
           a
           right
           to
           seals
           ,
           &c.
           
           But
           the
           immediate
           fruition
           of
           them
           ,
           they
           must
           have
           
             mediante
             Ecclesiâ
             visibili
          
           :
           now
           here
           lyes
           the
           true
           state
           of
           the
           question
           ,
           Whether
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           have
           ordained
           an
           universall
           visible
           Church
           ,
           in
           which
           ,
           and
           unto
           which
           ,
           by
           the
           Officers
           thereof
           all
           these
           outward
           visible
           priviledges
           and
           means
           of
           Grace
           ,
           are
           to
           be
           dispensed
           and
           immediately
           enjoyed
           of
           the
           faithfull
           ;
           or
           whether
           (
           not
           the
           remote
           right
           ,
           but
           )
           the
           immediate
           fruition
           and
           administration
           of
           all
           these
           ordinances
           by
           the
           institution
           of
           Christ
           ,
           be
           given
           to
           particular
           visible
           Churches
           ;
           and
           surely
           to
           whom
           one
           of
           these
           is
           given
           ,
           all
           are
           given
           :
           For
           there
           is
           the
           same
           nature
           ,
           reason
           ,
           and
           use
           of
           all
           ,
           Ministry
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           Seals
           ,
           Discipline
           ,
           all
           are
           outward
           ordinances
           ,
           priviledges
           ,
           means
           of
           Grace
           ,
           belonging
           to
           the
           visible
           Church
           ,
           where
           Christ
           hath
           given
           one
           ,
           he
           hath
           given
           all
           .
           But
           we
           must
           confesse
           ,
           however
           you
           call
           this
           ,
           A
           new
           Church
           way
           ,
           it
           is
           new
           to
           us
           to
           read
           so
           much
           of
           late
           ,
           of
           such
           a
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           to
           which
           administration
           of
           Seals
           ,
           Censures
           ,
           &c.
           belong
           .
           We
           are
           yet
           of
           the
           opinion
           of
           
             Baynes
             ,
             Parker
          
           ,
           and
           
             Cartwright
             ,
             &c.
          
           that
           have
           against
           Papists
           and
           Prelates
           maintained
           ,
           that
           in
           the
           new
           Testament
           there
           is
           no
           instituted
           Catholick
           ,
           Nationall
           ,
           or
           Provinciall
           Church
           ;
           but
           onely
           the
           Church
           of
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           both
           for
           the
           reasons
           alledged
           in
           our
           Answer
           ,
           as
           also
           for
           the
           impossibility
           thereof
           in
           the
           days
           of
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           when
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           sent
           his
           Apostles
           into
           all
           the
           world
           ;
           therefore
           impossible
           both
           in
           regard
           of
           distance
           of
           place
           ,
           and
           variety
           of
           language
           almost
           ever
           to
           meet
           in
           one
           ,
           so
           much
           as
           by
           representation
           ,
           and
           that
           not
           onely
           by
           accident
           ,
           as
           may
           befall
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           by
           sickness
           ,
           persecution
           ,
           &c.
           but
           by
           the
           necessity
           of
           nature
           and
           invincible
           hinderances
           foreseen
           by
           Christ
           ,
           and
           intended
           by
           him
           .
           And
           therfore
           ,
           as
           the
           Lord
           limiting
           his
           Church
           to
           one
           Nation
           ,
           united
           it
           into
           that
           form
           of
           a
           Nationall
           Church
           ,
           ordaining
           one
           place
           ,
           stated
           times
           and
           duties
           of
           Worship
           ,
           and
           one
           Government
           for
           the
           same
           :
           so
           now
           the
           Lord
           neglecting
           all
           such
           things
           ,
           hath
           ordained
           a
           compleat
           administration
           
           of
           all
           his
           ordinances
           in
           particular
           Congregations
           ,
           and
           therefore
           if
           there
           be
           no
           other
           instituted
           visible
           Church
           but
           of
           a
           Congregation
           ,
           and
           Seals
           in
           their
           administration
           be
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           our
           first
           consideration
           will
           still
           hold
           firm
           .
           But
           seeing
           in
           so
           vast
           a
           subject
           to
           say
           little
           ,
           is
           to
           say
           nothing
           ;
           and
           there
           is
           scarce
           any
           Truth
           in
           this
           wilie
           age
           but
           is
           almost
           disputed
           out
           of
           countenance
           ,
           and
           much
           darkned
           with
           humane
           evasions
           ;
           and
           seeing
           much
           depends
           upon
           this
           controversie
           ,
           it
           may
           be
           so
           most
           usefull
           before
           we
           come
           to
           the
           defence
           of
           our
           argument
           to
           take
           into
           consideration
           the
           nature
           and
           order
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           of
           Christ
           Catholick
           and
           particular
           .
           We
           are
           not
           ignorant
           of
           the
           knots
           and
           difficulties
           of
           this
           question
           ,
           which
           of
           late
           have
           so
           much
           exercised
           the
           minds
           of
           many
           Godly-learned
           :
           And
           we
           think
           the
           notions
           of
           a
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           now
           held
           ,
           being
           but
           newly
           taken
           up
           amongst
           godly
           Reformers
           ,
           who
           formerly
           ran
           in
           another
           channell
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           ingenuously
           confessed
           by
           some
           according
           to
           the
           truth
           )
           this
           new-birth
           seems
           not
           yet
           so
           formed
           to
           its
           distinct
           proportions
           ,
           as
           time
           may
           bring
           it
           unto
           :
           and
           it
           might
           make
           us
           afraid
           (
           being
           the
           weakest
           of
           many
           )
           to
           venture
           upon
           so
           diffuse
           and
           knotty
           a
           question
           ,
           when
           we
           look
           upon
           our
           own
           insufficiency
           to
           such
           a
           task
           ,
           and
           the
           Learned
           labors
           of
           such
           in
           this
           Point
           ,
           whom
           we
           reverence
           in
           the
           Lord
           :
           yet
           ,
           when
           we
           consider
           of
           what
           great
           weight
           and
           moment
           the
           clearing
           up
           of
           this
           Truth
           would
           be
           unto
           the
           orderly
           proceedings
           of
           the
           great
           Work
           of
           Reformation
           in
           hand
           ;
           2
           How
           unavoydably
           it
           lyes
           in
           our
           way
           in
           this
           Work
           the
           Lord
           hath
           called
           us
           unto
           ;
           and
           that
           he
           sometimes
           doth
           vouchsafe
           to
           speak
           by
           weak
           ones
           ,
           that
           the
           praise
           may
           be
           his
           own
           ,
           in
           hope
           of
           his
           blessed
           guidance
           which
           we
           depend
           upon
           herein
           ,
           taking
           the
           light
           of
           his
           Word
           in
           our
           hands
           ,
           we
           shall
           (
           rather
           as
           learners
           then
           otherwise
           )
           venture
           to
           propound
           what
           is
           suggested
           to
           us
           herein
           .
           Concerning
           which
           having
           digressed
           a
           while
           ,
           we
           shall
           return
           (
           we
           hope
           )
           with
           some
           advantage
           of
           clearer
           evidence
           to
           justifie
           the
           first
           argument
           of
           the
           Answer
           ,
           against
           what
           is
           said
           in
           the
           Reply
           .
        
      
       
         
         
           CHAP.
           V.
           
        
         
           
             A
             digression
             tending
             to
             clear
             the
             state
             of
             that
             controversie
             concerning
             a
             Catholick
             visible
             Church
             ,
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             nature
             ,
             unity
             ,
             visibility
             ,
             and
             priority
             of
             the
             same
             .
          
        
         
           THe
           world
           hath
           been
           long
           troubled
           with
           the
           equivocation
           of
           the
           word
           [
           Church
           :
           ]
           and
           therefore
           (
           as
           it
           is
           needfull
           )
           we
           shall
           labor
           to
           set
           down
           our
           thoughts
           as
           distinctly
           and
           plainly
           as
           we
           can
           in
           certain
           Propositions
           that
           may
           be
           some
           ground
           of
           our
           discourse
           .
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
             1.
             
          
           The
           true
           Church
           of
           God
           is
           the
           whole
           number
           of
           Elect
           and
           called
           ones
           out
           of
           the
           world
           to
           fellowship
           with
           Jesus
           Christ
           their
           Head
           ,
           with
           whom
           they
           make
           up
           one
           mysticall
           body
           ,
           Ephes
           .
           1.
           23.
           
           This
           whole
           Church
           is
           of
           the
           same
           nature
           ,
           and
           one
           in
           essence
           from
           the
           beginning
           of
           the
           world
           to
           the
           end
           ;
           for
           this
           Church
           Christ
           laid
           down
           his
           life
           ,
           
             Ephes
             .
             5.
             26.
             
             Joh.
          
           10.
           15.
           and
           therefore
           he
           adds
           ,
           vers
           .
           16.
           such
           as
           are
           not
           yet
           of
           his
           fold
           (
           actually
           )
           shall
           be
           brought
           into
           the
           same
           ,
           viz.
           by
           effectuall
           calling
           ,
           that
           there
           may
           be
           one
           Shepheard
           and
           one
           sheepfold
           :
           wherby
           it
           appears
           that
           the
           whole
           fold
           of
           Christ
           to
           which
           he
           stands
           as
           one
           Shepheard
           ,
           contains
           all
           his
           members
           and
           sheep
           to
           the
           end
           of
           the
           world
           ,
           and
           it
           is
           one
           fold
           in
           relation
           to
           Christ
           that
           one
           Shepheard
           .
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
             2●
          
           This
           one
           entire
           body
           of
           Christ
           doth
           naturally
           fall
           under
           various
           notions
           and
           considerations
           ,
           as
           (
           omitting
           others
           )
           when
           it
           is
           considered
           according
           to
           the
           adjuncts
           of
           visibility
           and
           invisibility
           ,
           which
           are
           onely
           adjuncts
           of
           the
           same
           Church
           ,
           as
           is
           generally
           observed
           by
           Divines
           .
           In
           respect
           of
           the
           inward
           union
           which
           every
           such
           member
           hath
           with
           Christ
           the
           Head
           ,
           by
           the
           Spirit
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           by
           Faith
           ,
           whereby
           we
           are
           united
           to
           him
           ;
           it
           is
           called
           invisible
           ,
           because
           this
           union
           is
           not
           visible
           to
           men
           .
           In
           respects
           of
           some
           visible
           fruits
           and
           manifestations
           of
           faith
           to
           the
           judgment
           of
           men
           ,
           it
           is
           called
           visible
           ;
           and
           hence
           though
           true
           beleevers
           be
           onely
           univoce
           ,
           and
           properly
           members
           of
           this
           body
           of
           Christ
           ;
           yet
           to
           men
           that
           judge
           onely
           by
           outward
           effects
           many
           hypocrites
           ,
           
           equivoce
           and
           improperly
           are
           accounted
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           and
           hence
           the
           Scripture
           frequently
           speaks
           of
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           as
           if
           they
           were
           all
           really
           Saints
           .
        
         
         
           
             Propos
             .
             3.
             
          
           As
           this
           Church
           comes
           to
           be
           visible
           ,
           so
           it
           becomes
           a
           fit
           and
           capable
           subject
           of
           visible
           policy
           ,
           and
           visible
           communion
           with
           Christ
           their
           Head
           ,
           and
           one
           with
           another
           in
           all
           the
           visible
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ,
           a
           capable
           subject
           we
           say
           ,
           or
           matter
           fit
           for
           such
           a
           state
           ;
           for
           by
           its
           visibility
           it self
           it
           is
           not
           so
           ,
           having
           yet
           no
           more
           then
           a
           spirituall
           relation
           to
           Christ
           and
           one
           another
           :
           no
           visible
           combination
           one
           with
           another
           ;
           for
           visible
           beleevers
           may
           be
           so
           scattered
           in
           severall
           Countreys
           ,
           that
           they
           cannot
           make
           up
           one
           Society
           .
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
             4.
             
          
           And
           therefore
           we
           add
           ,
           That
           there
           is
           no
           way
           for
           this
           Church
           to
           enjoy
           actuall
           visible
           communion
           under
           the
           visible
           government
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           visible
           instituted
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ,
           but
           in
           a
           Society
           .
           A
           thousand
           uncombined
           persons
           meeting
           occasionally
           in
           one
           place
           ,
           though
           their
           naturall
           relations
           were
           as
           near
           as
           brethren
           ,
           yet
           have
           no
           power
           of
           government
           or
           actuall
           communion
           in
           any
           Civill
           priviledges
           ,
           if
           they
           stand
           not
           in
           relation
           to
           one
           another
           as
           a
           combined
           Society
           ;
           as
           after
           shall
           be
           shown
           ;
           so
           here
           :
           And
           therefore
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           41
           ,
           42.
           first
           they
           were
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           then
           followed
           their
           fellowship
           in
           all
           the
           ordinances
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           as
           after
           will
           more
           fully
           appear
           .
           And
           hence
           it
           is
           said
           ,
           
             Acts
             5.
             14.
             
             Beleevers
          
           were
           added
           ;
           first
           they
           were
           beleevers
           ,
           standing
           in
           that
           spirituall
           relation
           to
           Christ
           and
           his
           whole
           body
           ,
           and
           then
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           by
           visible
           combination
           .
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
             5.
             
          
           There
           is
           no
           visible
           society
           of
           a
           Church
           who
           hath
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           right
           unto
           ,
           and
           communion
           in
           the
           visible
           government
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           the
           dispensation
           of
           his
           instituted
           Worship
           and
           ordinances
           ,
           but
           such
           a
           Society
           as
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           hath
           in
           the
           Gopel
           instituted
           and
           ordained
           for
           that
           end
           .
           We
           say
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           right
           unto
           the
           same
           ;
           for
           though
           a
           beleever
           ,
           quâ
           beleever
           ,
           have
           an
           immediate
           right
           ,
           and
           actuall
           enjoyment
           of
           such
           benefits
           of
           Christ
           as
           necessarily
           and
           immediately
           flow
           from
           his
           internall
           union
           with
           Christ
           ,
           as
           justification
           ,
           adoption
           ,
           &c.
           and
           such
           right
           to
           Christian
           communion
           with
           all
           the
           Saints
           in
           their
           prayers
           ,
           gifts
           ,
           &c.
           as
           flow
           from
           his
           spirituall
           relation
           unto
           them
           ;
           yea
           ,
           and
           also
           he
           hath
           a
           true
           right
           to
           all
           benefits
           purchased
           by
           Christ
           in
           a
           due
           order
           and
           manner
           :
           yet
           we
           say
           instituted
           priviledges
           and
           ordinances
           doe
           not
           immediately
           flow
           from
           spirituall
           union
           and
           relation
           to
           Christ
           and
           his
           members
           ,
           but
           are
           dispensed
           by
           Christ
           to
           his
           people
           mediately
           ,
           and
           in
           such
           an
           order
           as
           he
           hath
           in
           wisdome
           
           ordained
           :
           and
           this
           the
           nature
           of
           visible
           government
           and
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           necessarily
           requires
           .
           And
           hence
           it
           is
           ,
           that
           although
           the
           Church
           in
           its
           nature
           and
           essence
           ,
           and
           in
           respect
           of
           its
           spirituall
           union
           and
           relation
           to
           Christ
           and
           one
           another
           ,
           profession
           of
           the
           same
           faith
           ,
           &c.
           have
           been
           always
           one
           and
           the
           same
           in
           all
           ages
           ,
           yet
           both
           the
           visible
           government
           and
           ordinances
           of
           Worship
           ,
           and
           also
           the
           instituted
           form
           and
           order
           of
           Church-societies
           hath
           been
           various
           according
           to
           the
           wisdome
           and
           will
           of
           Christ
           ,
           whereby
           it
           appears
           ,
           that
           the
           order
           ,
           government
           ,
           forms
           of
           visible
           Church-societies
           ,
           to
           which
           actuall
           enjoyment
           of
           visible
           ordinances
           doe
           belong
           ,
           cannot
           justly
           be
           deduced
           from
           the
           common
           nature
           of
           the
           Church
           Catholick
           ,
           or
           any
           respects
           of
           reason
           or
           logicall
           notions
           under
           which
           it
           may
           fall
           :
           but
           onely
           this
           depends
           upon
           the
           will
           and
           pleasure
           of
           Christ
           ,
           who
           hath
           in
           all
           ages
           instituted
           the
           forms
           and
           orders
           of
           such
           Societies
           to
           whom
           the
           actual
           enjoyment
           of
           instituted
           ordinances
           was
           given
           :
           And
           hence
           the
           argument
           for
           a
           nationall
           form
           of
           a
           Church
           to
           be
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           as
           wel
           as
           in
           the
           Old
           ,
           drawn
           from
           the
           common
           nature
           ,
           essence
           ,
           prosession
           of
           faith
           ,
           &c.
           of
           the
           Church
           in
           all
           ages
           ,
           falls
           flat
           to
           the
           ground
           ,
           for
           by
           the
           same
           reason
           it
           must
           then
           be
           in
           families
           onely
           now
           ,
           as
           it
           was
           about
           Abrahams
           time
           .
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
             6.
             
          
           Hence
           it
           follows
           that
           the
           true
           state
           of
           this
           great
           dispute
           about
           a
           Catholick
           Church
           (
           so
           far
           as
           tends
           to
           clear
           up
           to
           what
           Church
           the
           actuall
           administration
           of
           Church-government
           ,
           and
           all
           instituted
           Worship
           belongs
           )
           doth
           not
           lye
           in
           the
           consideration
           of
           the
           common
           nature
           ,
           essence
           ,
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           ,
           or
           any
           other
           notions
           under
           which
           it
           may
           fall
           ;
           but
           the
           true
           state
           lyes
           here
           concerning
           the
           nature
           ,
           order
           ,
           form
           of
           such
           visible
           Societies
           ,
           as
           Christ
           Jesus
           by
           Divine
           institution
           in
           the
           Gospel
           hath
           reduced
           his
           visible
           members
           unto
           ,
           for
           the
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           enjoyment
           of
           all
           his
           instituted
           ordinances
           .
        
         
           And
           therefore
           (
           with
           due
           respect
           to
           the
           Godly-learned
           be
           it
           spoken
           )
           we
           conceive
           many
           large
           disputes
           in
           this
           question
           fall
           short
           of
           the
           issue
           that
           is
           desired
           and
           intended
           ;
           for
           what
           if
           it
           be
           granted
           :
           1
           That
           there
           is
           a
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           ,
           which
           in
           some
           respects
           of
           reason
           (
           as
           Mr.
           Ball
           saith
           )
           is
           one
           that
           having
           
             partes
             visibiles
          
           ,
           is
           a
           
             totum
             visibile
          
           .
        
         
           2.
           
           That
           the
           visible
           Church
           is
           not
           onely
           a
           
             totum
             genericum
          
           ,
           in
           relation
           to
           all
           the
           particular
           Congregations
           ,
           as
           
             species
             specialissimae
          
           ,
           
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           in
           generall
           ,
           (
           which
           respect
           of
           reason
           in
           some
           sense
           we
           freely
           consent
           unto
           )
           but
           also
           that
           it
           may
           fall
           under
           the
           notion
           of
           a
           
             totum
             integrale
          
           ,
           as
           some
           contend
           ,
           (
           though
           we
           conceive
           in
           this
           notion
           ,
           they
           are
           so
           intangled
           in
           their
           own
           logicall
           principles
           ,
           as
           that
           they
           cannot
           get
           out
           without
           breaking
           them
           ,
           and
           flying
           to
           theologicall
           considerations
           )
           yet
           we
           say
           ,
           what
           if
           that
           also
           be
           attained
           ?
        
         
           3
           Yea
           further
           ,
           what
           if
           this
           Catholick
           Church
           be
           in
           some
           respects
           of
           reason
           and
           order
           of
           nature
           also
           the
           first
           Church
           ,
           and
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           ortae
           ?
        
         
           4
           Yea
           further
           ,
           what
           if
           it
           were
           gained
           also
           by
           such
           disputes
           ,
           that
           the
           Keys
           and
           Officers
           ,
           Ordinances
           ,
           &c.
           be
           given
           firstly
           to
           this
           Catholick
           Church
           as
           to
           the
           object
           and
           end
           ?
           We
           confesse
           we
           do
           not
           see
           that
           what
           our
           Brethren
           contend
           for
           ,
           is
           by
           all
           this
           obtained
           .
           For
           ,
           first
           ,
           if
           the
           universall
           number
           of
           visible
           beleevers
           be
           one
           
             totum
             aggregatum
          
           ;
           yet
           it
           will
           bee
           hard
           to
           prove
           that
           these
           are
           one
           instituted
           and
           politicall
           Society
           ,
           that
           can
           enjoy
           visible
           communion
           together
           in
           visible
           Worship
           and
           government
           ;
           and
           yet
           more
           hard
           to
           prove
           that
           by
           the
           institution
           of
           Christ
           ,
           these
           all
           are
           to
           be
           actually
           governed
           as
           one
           totum
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           what
           though
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           Catholick
           be
           in
           order
           of
           time
           before
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           as
           being
           fit
           matter
           for
           them
           ,
           and
           constituting
           of
           them
           ?
           yet
           this
           proves
           not
           one
           politicall
           body
           before
           they
           combine
           ,
           but
           rather
           the
           contrary
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           be
           it
           so
           that
           this
           Catholick
           Church
           is
           the
           first
           Church
           to
           which
           Christ
           hath
           firstly
           given
           the
           Keys
           ,
           Ordinances
           ,
           Promises
           ,
           &c.
           for
           which
           Christ
           firstly
           performed
           the
           Offices
           of
           King
           ,
           Priest
           ,
           and
           Prophet
           ,
           and
           what
           else
           soever
           can
           be
           said
           in
           this
           kinde
           ;
           yet
           all
           this
           may
           be
           in
           this
           respect
           that
           Christ
           looked
           at
           this
           Catholick
           Church
           firstly
           as
           the
           chief
           object
           and
           end
           for
           whose
           sake
           and
           good
           he
           ordained
           and
           gave
           all
           these
           things
           ,
           and
           this
           will
           not
           carry
           the
           cause
           ;
           for
           as
           the
           Church
           Catholick
           visible
           in
           this
           sense
           is
           the
           first
           Church
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           particulars
           ,
           so
           the
           invisible
           body
           of
           Christ
           is
           in
           nature
           and
           priority
           the
           first
           Church
           in
           respect
           of
           visible
           ,
           as
           visible
           ;
           for
           Christ
           no
           doubt
           firstly
           intends
           and
           gives
           all
           these
           things
           to
           the
           invisible
           Church
           ,
           as
           to
           the
           object
           and
           end
           of
           the
           same
           for
           whose
           good
           they
           are
           all
           ordained
           ;
           rather
           then
           for
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           ,
           which
           containes
           many
           hypocrites
           and
           reprobates
           within
           the
           verge
           of
           it
           .
           But
           now
           if
           we
           speak
           of
           a
           subject
           of
           the
           Keys
           ,
           to
           which
           the
           actuall
           exercise
           and
           dispensation
           
           of
           Keys
           and
           instituted
           Ordinances
           belong
           :
           who
           doe
           not
           see
           that
           in
           this
           sense
           the
           invisible
           Church
           
             quâ
             talis
          
           ,
           cannot
           be
           that
           instituted
           Society
           to
           which
           the
           Keys
           ,
           &c.
           belong
           ;
           and
           by
           the
           same
           reason
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           
             quâ
             totum
          
           ,
           and
           quâ
           Catholick
           ,
           cannot
           be
           this
           instituted
           Society
           to
           which
           they
           are
           given
           .
           It
           is
           a
           known
           rule
           in
           Reason
           ,
           that
           ,
           That
           which
           is
           first
           in
           intention
           ,
           is
           last
           in
           execution
           ;
           and
           so
           it
           is
           here
           ,
           first
           ,
           Christ
           propounds
           this
           end
           to
           himself
           to
           gather
           ,
           edifie
           ,
           perfect
           ,
           sanctifie
           ,
           save
           his
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           Ephes
           .
           4.
           11
           ,
           12.
           
           &
           5.
           26.
           and
           therefore
           institutes
           all
           ordinances
           as
           means
           to
           farther
           and
           attain
           this
           great
           design
           ;
           but
           in
           execution
           he
           may
           (
           for
           all
           this
           )
           give
           the
           Keys
           and
           ordinances
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           immediate
           exercise
           to
           any
           form
           of
           visible
           Societies
           that
           he
           shall
           be
           pleased
           to
           institute
           ,
           and
           it
           may
           be
           that
           will
           prove
           the
           least
           Society
           sooner
           then
           a
           greater
           .
        
         
           And
           seeing
           our
           Brethren
           otherwise
           minded
           make
           much
           use
           of
           similies
           in
           this
           dispute
           :
           we
           hope
           it
           will
           not
           be
           amisse
           for
           us
           to
           illustrate
           what
           we
           say
           by
           a
           similitude
           ,
           partly
           to
           make
           our
           conceivings
           the
           more
           plain
           to
           all
           whose
           edification
           we
           seek
           ;
           and
           partly
           ,
           to
           discover
           the
           invalidity
           of
           many
           discourses
           of
           this
           nature
           ;
           and
           because
           
             similia
             arguunt
             fidemque
             faciunt
          
           ,
           (
           as
           he
           saith
           )
           viz.
           so
           far
           as
           rightly
           applyed
           )
           we
           will
           therefore
           propound
           it
           in
           way
           of
           argument
           .
           The
           similitude
           is
           this
           ,
           
             genus
             humanum
          
           ,
           or
           mankinde
           in
           generall
           is
           the
           subject
           of
           Civill
           government
           in
           generall
           ,
           and
           of
           all
           the
           priviledges
           thereof
           ,
           as
           the
           object
           and
           the
           end
           :
           and
           let
           the
           question
           be
           ,
           whether
           this
           Catholick
           number
           of
           all
           mankinde
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           all
           power
           of
           Civill
           government
           ,
           and
           the
           priviledges
           thereof
           ;
           and
           if
           so
           ,
           whether
           such
           consequences
           will
           follow
           as
           our
           Brethren
           deduce
           from
           the
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           ,
           and
           priority
           of
           the
           Catholich
           Church
           .
           Now
           we
           reduce
           what
           we
           intend
           into
           an
           Argument
           ,
           thus
           :
           If
           all
           that
           can
           be
           said
           from
           Scripture
           and
           Reason
           concerning
           the
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           ,
           and
           priority
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           may
           as
           truly
           be
           affirmed
           upon
           like
           grounds
           of
           the
           Catholick
           body
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           then
           
             à
             p●ri
          
           it
           will
           follow
           that
           there
           is
           no
           more
           one
           Catholick
           visible
           instituted
           totum
           ,
           that
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           Church
           power
           and
           priviledges
           in
           the
           actuall
           exercise
           and
           enjoyment
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           then
           that
           there
           is
           such
           a
           Catholick
           body
           of
           mankinde
           that
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           o●
           Civill
           power
           ,
           &c.
           and
           that
           actually
           doth
           or
           ought
           to
           govern
           and
           be
           governed
           as
           one
           Catholick
           body
           in
           communion
           :
           but
           it
           will
           appear
           from
           Scripture
           and
           Reason
           ,
           that
           the
           same
           things
           may
           be
           said
           of
           mankind
           
           that
           can
           be
           said
           of
           the
           other
           ;
           Ergo
           ,
        
         
         
           And
           it
           is
           proved
           
             per
             partes
          
           ,
           thus
           :
           1
           
             For
             the
             unity
          
           ;
           are
           not
           all
           mankinde
           oft
           in
           Scripture
           called
           the
           world
           ?
           
             Joh.
             3.
             16
             
             ▪
             So
             God
             loved
             the
             world
             ,
          
           that
           is
           ,
           mankinde
           in
           the
           world
           ;
           which
           is
           one
           .
           So
           ,
           frequently
           all
           mankinde
           is
           called
           man
           ,
           
             Gen.
             6.
             5
             ,
             6
             ,
             7.
             
             I
             will
             not
             strive
             with
             man
             ,
             &c.
          
           yea
           ,
           it
           is
           one
           kingdom
           ,
           Psal
           .
           145.
           11
           ,
           12
           ,
           13.
           which
           (
           if
           we
           view
           the
           whole
           Psalm
           )
           must
           be
           understood
           of
           the
           generall
           government
           of
           Gods
           providence
           over
           all
           the
           world
           ,
           and
           especially
           mankinde
           therein
           ,
           1
           
             Chron.
             29.
             11
             ,
             12.
             &c.
          
           so
           that
           all
           is
           one
           kingdom
           ,
           
             Acts
             17.
             26.
             
             God
             hath
             made
             of
             one
             blood
             all
             Nations
          
           ;
           all
           are
           one
           blood
           ,
           all
           have
           their
           bounds
           set
           by
           God
           ,
           &c.
           that
           they
           might
           seek
           him
           ,
           and
           feel
           after
           him
           ;
           and
           as
           it
           is
           said
           for
           one
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           because
           it
           hath
           one
           Lord
           ,
           one
           Faith
           ,
           one
           Baptism
           ,
           one
           Spirit
           ,
           and
           are
           bound
           to
           love
           and
           pray
           one
           for
           the
           other
           ,
           &c.
           so
           there
           is
           a
           like
           unity
           here
           ,
           for
           the
           whole
           number
           of
           mankinde
           hath
           one
           Lord
           and
           King
           over
           all
           ,
           
             God
             who
             is
             King
             over
             all
             the
             earth
             called
             an
             head
             over
             all
             ,
             1
             Chron.
          
           29.
           11.
           yea
           ,
           Jesus
           Christ
           is
           Lord
           of
           Lords
           ,
           and
           King
           of
           Kings
           ,
           and
           head
           over
           all
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           
             Ephes
             .
             1.
             22.
             
             All
             have
             one
             Law
             ,
          
           the
           Morall
           Law
           ,
           the
           common
           rule
           of
           equity
           and
           righteousness
           whereby
           they
           are
           bound
           to
           walk
           towards
           God
           and
           one
           another
           ,
           and
           this
           writ
           in
           the
           hearts
           of
           all
           ;
           they
           have
           all
           one
           spirit
           of
           reason
           disposing
           them
           to
           society
           and
           mutuall
           offices
           of
           love
           ,
           one
           faculty
           of
           speaking
           to
           fit
           them
           for
           communion
           ,
           one
           end
           to
           feel
           after
           God
           ,
           Act.
           17.
           and
           seek
           ye
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           kinde
           ;
           all
           ought
           to
           love
           one
           another
           ,
           desire
           and
           seek
           the
           welfare
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           and
           of
           one
           another
           ,
           Esay
           58.
           7.
           yea
           ,
           the
           Lord
           as
           a
           common
           head
           by
           the
           working
           of
           his
           common
           Providence
           ,
           and
           out
           of
           his
           love
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           hath
           a
           common
           and
           constant
           influence
           into
           all
           ,
           giving
           not
           onely
           life
           and
           breath
           ,
           and
           all
           good
           things
           ,
           Acts
           17.
           but
           also
           all
           gifts
           of
           wisdom
           ,
           art
           ,
           skill
           ,
           for
           Government
           ,
           &c.
           to
           Kings
           ,
           Judges
           ,
           Fathers
           ,
           Masters
           ,
           and
           all
           Officers
           of
           Civill
           government
           ,
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ;
           and
           what
           ever
           else
           may
           be
           said
           to
           prove
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           On●
           ,
           may
           here
           be
           applyed
           .
        
         
           And
           as
           for
           principles
           of
           reason
           ,
           it
           is
           easie
           to
           conceive
           that
           all
           mankinde
           will
           fall
           either
           under
           the
           notion
           of
           one
           
             genus
             homo
          
           ,
           whereof
           the
           individua
           are
           
             species
             specialissimae
          
           ,
           or
           in
           another
           respect
           all
           persons
           ,
           all
           Families
           ,
           Cities
           ,
           Kingdomes
           may
           (
           in
           a
           sense
           )
           make
           one
           
             totum
             integrale
          
           ,
           or
           aggregatum
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           is
           as
           evident
           that
           all
           this
           number
           of
           mankinde
           are
           one
           
             visibile
             totum
          
           ,
           by
           the
           arguments
           used
           for
           the
           visible
           Catholick
           
           Church
           ,
           for
           that
           which
           hath
           visible
           parts
           ,
           is
           a
           visible
           totum
           ,
           i●
           holds
           here
           as
           well
           as
           in
           the
           other
           case
           .
           Yea
           ,
           if
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           be
           one
           visible
           Body
           ,
           because
           it
           hath
           organs
           and
           visible
           Officers
           in
           it
           ,
           it
           will
           hold
           here
           ,
           for
           all
           mankinde
           is
           but
           one
           Army
           of
           the
           Lord
           of
           Hosts
           ,
           who
           hath
           Armies
           of
           heaven
           ,
           and
           Armies
           on
           earth
           ,
           and
           in
           this
           Body
           God
           by
           his
           Providence
           hath
           set
           ,
           and
           by
           his
           ordinance
           hath
           ordained
           Fathers
           ,
           Masters
           ,
           Husbands
           ,
           Judges
           ,
           Kings
           ,
           &c.
           to
           govern
           in
           this
           Body
           of
           mankinde
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           .
           Ruling
           and
           subjection
           by
           the
           fifth
           Commandement
           of
           the
           Morall
           Law
           ,
           which
           is
           in
           all
           mens
           hearts
           ,
           is
           ordained
           of
           God
           for
           the
           order
           ,
           peace
           ,
           and
           welfare
           of
           all
           mankind
           ,
           and
           therefore
           why
           is
           not
           this
           by
           the
           same
           reason
           a
           
             totum
             visibile
          
           ?
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           for
           Priority
           ,
           it
           is
           clear
           ,
           that
           as
           God
           hath
           firstly
           in
           nature
           and
           intention
           given
           Christ
           to
           the
           whole
           Church
           ,
           then
           to
           this
           and
           that
           particular
           beleever
           ,
           and
           the
           power
           of
           feeding
           and
           being
           fed
           and
           governed
           by
           shepheards
           .
           First
           ,
           to
           the
           whole
           race
           of
           sheep
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           to
           this
           or
           that
           flock
           .
           So
           in
           nature
           and
           Gods
           intention
           he
           hath
           firstly
           given
           to
           the
           race
           of
           mankind
           power
           of
           being
           governed
           with
           Government
           and
           Governors
           ,
           before
           they
           are
           given
           to
           this
           or
           that
           Family
           ,
           City
           ,
           Kingdom
           ,
           &c.
           
           So
           likewise
           what
           is
           said
           of
           Promises
           ,
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           Catholick
           firstly
           ;
           is
           it
           not
           as
           true
           here
           ?
           Those
           promises
           and
           blessings
           increase
           and
           multiply
           ,
           Subdue
           the
           earth
           and
           inhabite
           it
           .
           The
           feare
           and
           dread
           of
           you
           shall
           be
           on
           all
           beasts
           :
           and
           all
           like
           promises
           and
           priviledges
           of
           marriage
           ,
           of
           liberty
           to
           eat
           flesh
           ,
           &c.
           mentioned
           ,
           Gen.
           2.
           
           &
           9.
           and
           all
           over
           the
           Scripture
           ,
           are
           they
           not
           in
           nature
           first
           given
           to
           mankinde
           ?
           and
           then
           to
           this
           or
           that
           person
           ,
           family
           ,
           City
           ?
           So
           if
           Church
           power
           ,
           and
           all
           Officers
           and
           Offices
           be
           firstly
           given
           to
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           not
           to
           this
           or
           that
           particular
           Church
           :
           So
           it
           's
           here
           ,
           when
           the
           Scripture
           saith
           ,
           
             Submit
             to
             the
             higher
             Powers
             ,
             for
             all
             Powers
             are
             of
             God
             ,
             Rom.
             13
             〈◊〉
             me
             ,
          
           saith
           God
           ,
           
             Kings
             reign
             ,
             and
             Princes
             decree
             judgment
             ,
          
           and
           such
           like
           Scriptures
           ;
           doth
           this
           firstly
           belong
           to
           this
           or
           that
           Kingdome
           ,
           City
           ,
           &c.
           and
           not
           rather
           that
           God
           hath
           firstly
           set
           up
           and
           ordained
           Civil
           Powers
           for
           mankind
           ,
           to
           be
           obeyed
           of
           all
           mankinde
           firstly
           ,
           and
           then
           in
           this
           or
           that
           state
           .
           Is
           foederall
           holinesse
           first
           the
           priviledge
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ?
           (
           which
           in
           a
           sense
           we
           will
           not
           now
           contradict
           )
           so
           is
           legitimation
           ,
           first
           the
           priviledge
           of
           married
           society
           in
           generall
           in
           all
           mankinde
           ,
           and
           then
           of
           this
           or
           that
           family
           .
           Are
           the
           members
           of
           particular
           Churches
           firstly
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ;
           
           and
           is
           it
           not
           so
           here
           ?
           the
           members
           of
           every
           family
           ,
           city
           ,
           &c
           ▪
           first
           and
           last
           of
           the
           number
           of
           mankinde
           ;
           and
           so
           when
           the
           Societies
           are
           dissolved
           ,
           they
           are
           still
           of
           mankinde
           :
           and
           doe
           not
           all
           Societies
           spring
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           and
           are
           an
           additament
           and
           increase
           to
           it
           ?
           the
           one
           is
           true
           as
           well
           as
           the
           other
           .
        
         
           It
           would
           be
           over
           tedious
           to
           follow
           this
           parallel
           so
           farre
           as
           wee
           might
           ,
           these
           may
           be
           sufficient
           instances
           to
           guide
           the
           Reader
           to
           apply
           whatever
           else
           is
           ,
           or
           can
           be
           said
           in
           this
           kinde
           from
           the
           common
           nature
           and
           logicall
           notions
           under
           which
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           visible
           may
           be
           considered
           :
           What
           is
           said
           that
           may
           more
           properly
           concern
           the
           case
           under
           the
           notion
           of
           an
           instituted
           Society
           ,
           we
           shall
           consider
           in
           due
           place
           .
        
         
           Now
           from
           that
           which
           hath
           been
           said
           ,
           the
           Conclusion
           ,
           as
           we
           conceive
           ,
           doth
           easily
           and
           naturally
           follow
           ,
           That
           as
           notwithstanding
           all
           that
           is
           said
           ,
           there
           is
           no
           Catholick
           visible
           Body
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           to
           which
           ,
           or
           to
           the
           Officers
           wherof
           is
           given
           the
           power
           and
           priviledges
           of
           Civill
           government
           to
           rule
           this
           Catholick
           Body
           ,
           either
           as
           one
           
             totum
             politicum
          
           ;
           or
           the
           parts
           of
           it
           ,
           Families
           ,
           Cities
           ,
           Kingdoms
           
             in
             communi
          
           ,
           by
           subordination
           of
           all
           Societies
           with
           reference
           to
           the
           whole
           ;
           or
           so
           as
           every
           King
           ,
           Major
           ,
           &c.
           should
           be
           an
           Officer
           of
           the
           whole
           .
           So
           these
           ,
           and
           like
           consequences
           will
           not
           follow
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           guides
           ,
           government
           ,
           priviledges
           ,
           &c.
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           notwithstanding
           all
           that
           is
           said
           from
           these
           considerations
           of
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           ,
           priority
           of
           nature
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             1
             Object
             .
          
           
             If
             any
             shall
             Object
             ,
             the
             case
             is
             not
             alike
             ,
             because
             in
             this
             Catholick
             Church
             were
             universall
             Officers
             set
             up
             ,
             as
             the
             Apostles
             ;
             not
             so
             in
             the
             world
             of
             mankinde
             .
          
        
         
           
             Ans
             .
          
           We
           say
           ,
           these
           were
           but
           for
           a
           time
           in
           the
           first
           beginning
           for
           the
           setting
           up
           of
           the
           fir●●
           order
           in
           all
           the
           Churches
           ;
           who
           being
           dead
           ,
           there
           is
           none
           to
           succeed
           them
           in
           that
           respect
           of
           Catholick
           power
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           we
           say
           likewise
           ,
           at
           the
           first
           for
           a
           time
           Adam
           ,
           and
           after
           Noah
           ,
           had
           a
           generall
           power
           over
           mankinde
           ,
           though
           after
           them
           none
           had
           the
           like
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           here
           .
           And
           therefore
           the
           comparison
           stil
           runs
           clear
           .
        
         
           
             2
             Object
             .
          
           
             If
             any
             object
             ,
             as
             some
             doe
             ,
             in
             answer
             to
             an
             argument
             somewhat
             like
             this
             ,
             that
             this
             similitude
             holds
             not
             ,
             because
             there
             is
             not
             that
             externall
             union
             of
             visible
             communion
             in
             the
             Common-wealths
             of
             the
             world
             ,
             as
             in
             the
             Church
             ;
             if
             one
             say
             ,
             God
             hath
             placed
             Kings
             ,
             Dukes
             in
             the
             Common-wealths
             ,
          
           
           
             as
             in
             one
             organicall
             Body
             who
             have
             one
             head
             ,
             who
             giveth
             influence
             to
             so
             many
             organs
             of
             head
             ,
             feet
             ,
             &c.
             as
             the
             Apostle
             speaketh
             of
             the
             Body
             the
             Church
             ,
          
           1
           Cor.
           12.
           
             then
             indeed
             all
             the
             Common-wealths
             of
             the
             world
             would
             make
             but
             one
             body
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           To
           the
           Scripture
           alledged
           we
           shall
           speak
           after
           ,
           here
           onely
           let
           us
           clear
           our
           parallel
           .
           And
           first
           take
           the
           similitude
           as
           it
           is
           stated
           by
           us
           ,
           and
           it
           will
           be
           clear
           .
           First
           ,
           compare
           the
           Catholick
           number
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           with
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           which
           is
           the
           number
           of
           called
           ones
           ,
           and
           then
           there
           is
           as
           much
           externall
           union
           of
           visible
           communion
           in
           one
           ,
           as
           in
           the
           other
           .
           For
           ,
           first
           ,
           all
           mankinde
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           maintain
           Civill
           communion
           one
           with
           another
           ,
           in
           all
           Offices
           of
           humanity
           ,
           for
           the
           common
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           as
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           doe
           ,
           or
           ought
           to
           doe
           ;
           and
           common
           humanity
           ,
           and
           the
           command
           of
           the
           Morall
           Law
           binds
           thereto
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           Christianity
           and
           rules
           of
           the
           Gospel
           bind
           here
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           we
           compare
           Civill
           societies
           ,
           as
           Families
           ,
           Cities
           ,
           Common-wealths
           with
           instituted
           Churches
           ,
           it
           is
           as
           possible
           ,
           and
           as
           well
           the
           duty
           of
           all
           Common-wealths
           in
           the
           world
           ,
           by
           principles
           of
           humanity
           ,
           and
           the
           Morall
           Law
           in
           all
           mens
           hearts
           ,
           to
           maintain
           externall
           union
           of
           leagues
           of
           friendship
           ,
           and
           communion
           in
           all
           Offices
           of
           Civill
           society
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           possible
           ,
           and
           the
           duty
           of
           all
           Church
           societies
           ,
           by
           the
           principles
           of
           Christianity
           ,
           and
           rule
           of
           the
           Gospel
           to
           maintain
           externall
           union
           of
           visible
           communion
           in
           the
           duties
           of
           Church
           society
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           (
           not
           to
           dispute
           here
           whether
           there
           be
           such
           an
           externall
           union
           of
           visible
           communion
           amongst
           all
           the
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           as
           parts
           of
           the
           Church
           Catholick
           )
           if
           the
           reason
           alledged
           be
           sufficient
           to
           prove
           the
           same
           ,
           viz.
           because
           there
           is
           one
           head
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           who
           giveth
           influence
           to
           so
           many
           organs
           of
           head
           ,
           feet
           ,
           eyes
           ,
           &c.
           in
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
           Then
           still
           our
           parallel
           will
           hold
           ;
           for
           as
           this
           Head
           is
           no
           other
           then
           Christ
           Jesus
           in
           his
           spirituall
           Kingdom
           ,
           the
           Church
           giving
           that
           influence
           named
           ;
           so
           the
           same
           Lord
           that
           is
           King
           and
           Head
           over
           all
           ,
           1
           
             Chron.
             29.
             11.
             
             Ephes
          
           .
           1.
           22.
           doth
           give
           influence
           to
           many
           organs
           in
           this
           Body
           of
           Mankinde
           ,
           even
           to
           all
           Kings
           ,
           Judges
           ,
           Fathers
           of
           Families
           .
        
         
           And
           Christ
           is
           the
           same
           in
           respect
           of
           all
           authority
           ,
           power
           ,
           gifts
           ,
           administrations
           Civill
           ,
           &c.
           to
           this
           Kingdome
           of
           Men
           ,
           as
           he
           is
           to
           the
           Kingdom
           of
           his
           Church
           of
           all
           power
           spiritual
           :
           And
           although
           
           the
           Church
           be
           a
           Body
           of
           nearer
           relation
           to
           Christ
           ,
           then
           the
           Body
           of
           mankinde
           ;
           yet
           in
           regard
           of
           a
           common
           relation
           between
           a
           Head
           and
           Body
           there
           is
           a
           similitude
           ,
           which
           is
           sufficient
           in
           this
           case
           .
        
         
           There
           is
           one
           thing
           more
           we
           meet
           withall
           that
           here
           we
           shall
           remove
           ,
           viz.
           when
           it
           is
           objected
           that
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           cannot
           be
           one
           ,
           because
           it
           cannot
           convent
           together
           in
           one
           Society
           ;
           it
           is
           answered
           usually
           ,
           that
           such
           comming
           together
           in
           one
           society
           is
           not
           needfull
           ,
           because
           as
           a
           Kingdom
           may
           be
           one
           ,
           though
           all
           parts
           of
           it
           never
           meet
           together
           ,
           having
           the
           same
           King
           ,
           Laws
           ,
           &c.
           
           And
           as
           an
           Army
           may
           be
           one
           ,
           having
           the
           same
           Generall
           ,
           the
           same
           Laws
           of
           Discipline
           ,
           the
           same
           cause
           ,
           &c.
           though
           the
           severall
           Brigades
           should
           never
           be
           drawn
           up
           into
           one
           body
           :
           So
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           having
           the
           same
           King
           ,
           Laws
           ,
           Cause
           ,
           Enemies
           ,
           is
           but
           one
           though
           it
           never
           meet
           .
        
         
           To
           this
           we
           shall
           here
           Reply
           so
           far
           as
           it
           lyes
           in
           our
           way
           :
           1
           As
           all
           union
           is
           for
           communion
           ,
           and
           all
           communion
           flows
           from
           union
           ;
           so
           look
           of
           what
           nature
           the
           union
           is
           ,
           such
           ,
           and
           no
           other
           is
           the
           communion
           ;
           and
           look
           of
           what
           nature
           the
           communion
           ought
           to
           be
           ,
           of
           like
           nature
           ought
           the
           union
           to
           be
           ,
           else
           it
           will
           not
           reach
           the
           end
           .
           And
           therefore
           here
           as
           the
           mysticall
           spirituall
           union
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           to
           Christ
           the
           head
           by
           faith
           ,
           and
           to
           one
           another
           by
           love
           ,
           is
           sufficient
           to
           afford
           spirituall
           communion
           with
           the
           same
           :
           So
           unto
           Politicall
           communion
           there
           must
           bee
           a
           Politicall
           union
           into
           one
           policy
           .
           And
           as
           the
           nature
           of
           Politicall
           communion
           is
           ,
           such
           must
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           union
           be
           ,
           that
           it
           may
           reach
           the
           end
           .
        
         
           To
           apply
           this
           ,
           a
           Politicall
           Church
           is
           instituted
           of
           Christ
           for
           communion
           in
           all
           the
           Worship
           and
           Ordinances
           of
           Christ
           instituted
           in
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           as
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           the
           Seales
           and
           Discipline
           ;
           now
           no
           Church
           as
           One
           can
           have
           communion
           with
           Christ
           and
           one
           another
           in
           these
           things
           ,
           but
           it
           must
           have
           a
           Politicall
           union
           suitable
           thereunto
           ,
           that
           is
           ,
           they
           must
           be
           one
           Society
           that
           can
           at
           least
           meet
           to
           combine
           together
           .
        
         
           And
           therefore
           if
           all
           Churches
           make
           one
           Politicall
           Body
           ,
           for
           Politicall
           communion
           ,
           it
           must
           be
           such
           an
           union
           as
           will
           reach
           that
           end
           ,
           which
           cannot
           be
           imagined
           in
           such
           a
           Catholick
           
             totum
             politicum
          
           as
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           .
           'T
           is
           true
           ,
           distinct
           Churches
           (
           as
           distinct
           Kingdoms
           )
           may
           have
           communion
           in
           some
           politicall
           priviledges
           answerable
           to
           their
           union
           ,
           consisting
           in
           a
           fraternall
           
           relation
           one
           unto
           another
           ,
           yet
           not
           make
           up
           one
           Body
           Politicall
           ;
           of
           which
           we
           speak
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           to
           the
           similitudes
           brought
           ,
           we
           answer
           ,
           This
           whole
           Kingdom
           or
           Army
           is
           properly
           and
           clearly
           one
           Politicall
           Body
           under
           one
           Politicall
           head
           the
           King
           or
           General
           ,
           as
           stands
           by
           Covenant
           as
           members
           of
           that
           one
           Policy
           ;
           and
           those
           who
           have
           right
           to
           choose
           their
           King
           or
           Generall
           ,
           may
           and
           doe
           some
           time
           or
           other
           convene
           .
           Let
           the
           like
           be
           shewed
           in
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           that
           all
           Politicall
           Churches
           are
           moulded
           up
           into
           one
           Politicall
           Body
           ,
           either
           
             de
             jure
          
           ,
           or
           
             de
             facto
          
           ,
           or
           that
           it
           is
           possible
           (
           as
           the
           case
           stands
           )
           so
           to
           be
           ,
           and
           then
           the
           similitudes
           would
           be
           of
           some
           use
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           in
           a
           Kingdom
           or
           Army
           ,
           suppose
           they
           never
           meet
           ,
           yet
           there
           is
           such
           politicall
           union
           as
           fully
           reaches
           the
           politicall
           communion
           for
           which
           end
           it
           was
           combined
           ,
           viz.
           that
           they
           should
           enjoy
           peace
           and
           justice
           in
           and
           by
           a
           just
           Government
           ,
           or
           by
           the
           protection
           of
           the
           Army
           .
           But
           if
           such
           a
           politicall
           Body
           were
           combined
           to
           have
           such
           communion
           as
           a
           Church-communion
           is
           ,
           then
           it
           would
           require
           conventing
           together
           ,
           as
           elswhere
           we
           shall
           more
           fully
           manifest
           :
           For
           our
           parts
           ,
           we
           do
           not
           see
           that
           Christ
           hath
           ordained
           the
           whole
           Catholick
           church
           as
           One
           ,
           to
           have
           politicall
           communion
           together
           ,
           which
           is
           impossible
           .
        
         
           And
           therefore
           we
           see
           no
           need
           of
           such
           a
           Politicall
           combination
           ,
           but
           as
           he
           hath
           ordained
           a
           Brotherly
           communion
           of
           counsell
           and
           helpfulnesse
           one
           to
           another
           ,
           as
           need
           requires
           ;
           so
           a
           spirituall
           relation
           and
           brotherly
           consociation
           of
           Churches
           together
           is
           union
           sufficient
           for
           such
           a
           communion
           .
        
         
           And
           thus
           far
           we
           have
           endevored
           to
           take
           away
           all
           those
           arguments
           which
           are
           built
           upon
           the
           generall
           considerations
           of
           the
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           and
           priority
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           which
           we
           leave
           to
           the
           consideration
           and
           examination
           of
           the
           judicious
           .
        
         
           We
           shall
           now
           ,
           (
           as
           the
           Lord
           shall
           helpe
           us
           )
           come
           to
           cleare
           the
           state
           of
           this
           knotty
           controversie
           ,
           as
           we
           think
           it
           ought
           to
           be
           stated
           and
           carryed
           .
           Viz.
           
        
         
           What
           is
           that
           form
           of
           a
           Politicall
           Church
           which
           Jesus
           Christ
           in
           the
           Gospel
           hath
           instituted
           and
           appointed
           as
           the
           subject
           of
           Church
           power
           of
           government
           ,
           and
           administration
           of
           all
           the
           ordinances
           of
           the
           Gospel
           for
           actuall
           communion
           with
           Christ
           ,
           and
           one
           with
           another
           therein
           ?
           And
           here
           give
           us
           leave
           before
           we
           enter
           into
           the
           question
           it self
           ,
           to
           make
           a
           little
           further
           use
           of
           our
           former
           similitude
           for
           illustration
           ;
           and
           then
           we
           will
           shew
           where
           the
           
             ne
             plus
          
           
           ultra
           ,
           as
           we
           conceive
           must
           stand
           .
           It
           hath
           been
           shewed
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           body
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           that
           although
           much
           may
           be
           said
           for
           the
           unity
           ,
           visibility
           ,
           and
           priority
           thereof
           before
           any
           parts
           of
           it
           ,
           yet
           no
           reason
           will
           inforce
           that
           it
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           Civill
           power
           ,
           &c.
           in
           respect
           of
           actuall
           administration
           ,
           and
           immediate
           enjoyment
           thereof
           ,
           and
           so
           here
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Church
           .
           We
           will
           now
           add
           but
           this
           one
           thing
           more
           ,
           that
           notwithstanding
           all
           such
           reasons
           ,
           yet
           in
           execution
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           the
           least
           civill
           society
           ,
           yea
           ,
           a
           family
           may
           be
           ,
           and
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           civill
           power
           ,
           and
           priviledges
           of
           civill
           government
           ;
           so
           the
           least
           politicall
           Church
           society
           may
           be
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           these
           Keys
           of
           Church
           power
           in
           the
           exercise
           thereof
           ,
           and
           of
           immediate
           communion
           in
           all
           visible
           ordinances
           ,
           and
           we
           think
           that
           there
           by
           Divine
           institution
           it
           is
           seated
           ,
           and
           the
           edification
           and
           perfection
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           may
           best
           be
           attained
           thereby
           .
        
         
           Concerning
           Families
           ,
           we
           see
           no
           footsteps
           in
           the
           propagation
           of
           mankinde
           from
           Adam
           and
           Noah
           ,
           of
           any
           soveraign
           or
           universall
           government
           ,
           further
           then
           in
           the
           first
           Fathers
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           after
           whom
           as
           they
           increased
           ,
           families
           went
           out
           ,
           and
           combining
           made
           cities
           ,
           and
           so
           Common-wealths
           by
           mutuall
           consent
           ,
           as
           in
           Gen.
           10.
           and
           other
           Stories
           appear
           ,
           except
           by
           the
           tyrannous
           usurpations
           of
           some
           as
           Nimrod
           ,
           the
           rest
           were
           brought
           under
           ;
           and
           this
           no
           doubt
           amongst
           any
           free
           people
           is
           still
           the
           most
           orderly
           ,
           just
           and
           safe
           way
           of
           erecting
           all
           forms
           of
           civill
           government
           ,
           Families
           to
           combine
           into
           Townes
           ,
           Cities
           ,
           Kingdomes
           ,
           or
           Aristocraticall
           States
           .
           But
           here
           some
           will
           say
           ;
           If
           so
           ,
           that
           according
           to
           this
           similitude
           ,
           a
           particular
           congregation
           may
           be
           the
           first
           Church
           that
           have
           the
           Keys
           of
           Church
           power
           ,
           and
           Church
           communion
           ;
           then
           as
           families
           should
           combine
           into
           Towns
           and
           Cities
           ,
           and
           they
           into
           greater
           Common-wealths
           ,
           for
           the
           good
           of
           all
           mankinde
           ;
           so
           here
           these
           first
           Churches
           may
           not
           stand
           independently
           ,
           but
           ought
           to
           combine
           into
           greater
           Bodies
           ,
           till
           they
           come
           to
           be
           one
           whole
           Church
           ;
           to
           this
           we
           say
           ,
           this
           will
           not
           follow
           upon
           this
           evident
           reason
           ,
           because
           civill
           societies
           and
           government
           thereof
           ,
           is
           herein
           left
           to
           rules
           of
           humane
           prudence
           by
           the
           Lord
           and
           governor
           of
           the
           whole
           world
           ;
           and
           therefore
           may
           admit
           various
           forms
           of
           Government
           ,
           various
           Laws
           and
           Constitutions
           ,
           various
           priviledges
           ,
           &c.
           according
           as
           men
           shall
           conceive
           best
           for
           themselves
           ,
           so
           they
           be
           not
           against
           the
           common
           morall
           rules
           of
           equity
           ,
           and
           the
           good
           of
           those
           Societies
           :
           but
           here
           in
           the
           Kingdom
           of
           Christ
           as
           wee
           
           must
           attend
           what
           kinde
           of
           Church
           he
           hath
           instituted
           ,
           so
           we
           must
           cleave
           to
           such
           rules
           ,
           priviledges
           ,
           and
           forms
           of
           government
           and
           administrations
           as
           he
           hath
           ordained
           ,
           not
           presuming
           to
           goe
           one
           step
           beyond
           the
           same
           .
           And
           hence
           it
           is
           not
           in
           the
           power
           of
           any
           Church
           to
           alienate
           the
           power
           ,
           rights
           ,
           or
           priviledges
           Christ
           have
           set
           in
           the
           same
           ,
           or
           to
           mould
           up
           any
           other
           politicall
           Churches
           then
           he
           hath
           appointed
           ;
           and
           here
           we
           conceive
           stands
           immovably
           the
           
             ne
             plus
             ultra
          
           of
           this
           similitude
           between
           the
           visible
           Church
           ,
           and
           the
           estate
           of
           mankinde
           in
           reference
           to
           power
           and
           government
           ,
           &c.
           
           All
           which
           things
           well
           weighed
           ,
           to
           us
           seems
           to
           overthrow
           all
           such
           intermediate
           forms
           of
           Churches
           ,
           or
           the
           usuall
           Churches
           ,
           as
           Mr.
           Ball
           calls
           the
           same
           ;
           as
           ,
           Classicall
           ,
           Provinciall
           ,
           Diocesan
           ,
           Nationall
           ,
           Patriarchicall
           ,
           &c.
           which
           we
           see
           not
           how
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Christ
           they
           can
           be
           constituted
           either
           descendendo
           ,
           from
           the
           common
           nature
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ;
           or
           ascendendo
           ,
           from
           the
           combination
           of
           particulars
           ,
           except
           institution
           can
           bee
           found
           for
           the
           same
           .
           We
           find
           indeed
           ,
           that
           some
           endevor
           to
           build
           such
           forms
           upon
           the
           foundation
           of
           Morall
           principles
           ,
           and
           the
           Law
           of
           nature
           ;
           as
           ,
           
             That
             God
             hath
             given
             government
             to
             be
             over
             a
             multitude
             ,
             and
             that
             of
             many
             Societies
             ,
             as
             well
             as
             persons
             ,
             that
             one
             Society
             may
             not
             suffer
             as
             well
             as
             one
             person
             ;
             and
             that
             therefore
             must
             be
             given
             of
             the
             God
             of
             grace
             to
             a
             society
             and
             multitude
             of
             little
             Churches
             power
             of
             externall
             government
             .
          
        
         
           To
           which
           we
           answer
           ;
           1
           That
           there
           is
           no
           such
           principle
           in
           nature
           that
           generally
           binds
           free
           Societies
           to
           submit
           to
           one
           common
           government
           ;
           must
           many
           Kingdoms
           ,
           &c.
           by
           consequence
           all
           kingdoms
           combine
           in
           government
           ,
           lest
           one
           kingdome
           bee
           hurt
           ,
           ●
           .
           must
           
             Moab
             ,
             Ammon
             ,
             Edom
             ,
             Tyre
             ,
             Sydon
             ,
             Judea
             ,
             &c.
          
           being
           so
           contiguous
           in
           near
           vicinity
           to
           each
           other
           ,
           combine
           in
           one
           government
           ?
           2
           Is
           it
           not
           as
           suitable
           to
           morality
           and
           reason
           ,
           in
           such
           combinations
           ,
           that
           they
           set
           up
           One
           to
           rule
           over
           them
           ,
           when
           many
           grow
           ignorant
           ,
           evill
           ,
           or
           heady
           ,
           to
           preserve
           peace
           ,
           and
           prevent
           wrong
           ,
           as
           to
           set
           up
           many
           ?
           3
           Did
           
             Abraham
             ,
             Lot
             ,
             Melchisedeck
          
           ,
           and
           such
           family
           Churches
           ,
           walk
           against
           grounds
           of
           morality
           and
           nature
           ,
           that
           did
           not
           so
           combine
           ?
           We
           might
           add
           more
           ,
           but
           forbear
           ;
           but
           we
           could
           desire
           our
           dear
           Brethren
           to
           be
           wary
           of
           scattering
           such
           principles
           ;
           for
           though
           in
           the
           matters
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           Worship
           ,
           and
           Government
           of
           Christ
           ,
           grace
           doth
           not
           destroy
           nature
           ,
           yet
           look
           as
           a
           particular
           Church
           constitution
           and
           government
           was
           never
           erected
           by
           the
           Law
           of
           nature
           ;
           but
           
           Divine
           institution
           ,
           so
           for
           the
           governing
           of
           many
           over
           one
           ,
           why
           should
           there
           not
           be
           the
           like
           institution
           ?
        
         
           But
           to
           come
           more
           near
           to
           the
           case
           it self
           ,
           we
           shall
           endeavour
           to
           clear
           two
           things
           :
        
         
           1.
           
           That
           there
           is
           no
           Catholick
           politicall
           Church
           society
           instituted
           by
           Christ
           ,
           to
           which
           the
           actuall
           administration
           and
           participation
           of
           Church
           government
           and
           communion
           in
           the
           instituted
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ,
           is
           given
           as
           to
           the
           first
           subject
           thereof
           .
        
         
           2.
           
           That
           the
           true
           form
           of
           all
           Church
           societies
           instituted
           by
           Christ
           ,
           to
           which
           he
           hath
           given
           the
           actuall
           administration
           and
           immediate
           participation
           of
           Church
           government
           ,
           and
           all
           other
           instituted
           ordinances
           ,
           as
           the
           subject
           thereof
           ,
           is
           onely
           Congregationall
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           concerning
           the
           first
           ,
           to
           make
           our
           discourse
           more
           distinct
           and
           plain
           ,
           we
           shall
           premise
           here
           ,
           that
           we
           doe
           not
           here
           at
           all
           take
           in
           ,
           or
           respect
           that
           question
           about
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           ,
           whether
           it
           be
           in
           the
           fraternity
           or
           guides
           ,
           (
           we
           shall
           God
           willing
           have
           a
           fit
           place
           to
           speak
           something
           of
           it
           )
           but
           here
           (
           that
           we
           may
           not
           intermingle
           things
           )
           we
           look
           onely
           at
           the
           true
           subject
           ,
           in
           which
           ,
           and
           unto
           which
           the
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           dispensation
           and
           participation
           of
           Church
           government
           and
           outward
           ordinances
           is
           given
           by
           the
           institution
           of
           the
           Gospel
           .
           And
           here
           we
           first
           reason
           thus
           ,
           Such
           a
           Church
           society
           as
           Christ
           instituted
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           of
           Christ
           constituted
           and
           governed
           in
           :
           But
           the
           Apostles
           never
           constituted
           such
           a
           Catholick
           church
           society
           ,
           or
           governed
           it
           in
           such
           a
           manner
           as
           is
           said
           :
           Ergo.
           The
           Proposition
           is
           evident
           ,
           because
           the
           Apostles
           were
           to
           do
           whatsoever
           Christ
           commanded
           in
           Matth.
           28.
           20.
           and
           were
           sufficiently
           furnished
           with
           power
           and
           wisdome
           so
           to
           doe
           :
           Besides
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           having
           all
           power
           from
           Christ
           as
           hee
           received
           from
           the
           Father
           ,
           John
           20.
           and
           the
           whole
           number
           of
           beleevers
           being
           then
           at
           the
           fewest
           ,
           there
           was
           never
           since
           such
           an
           opportunity
           or
           possibility
           to
           constitute
           such
           a
           Church
           ,
           if
           Christ
           Jesus
           had
           instituted
           such
           a
           thing
           .
           The
           assumption
           or
           second
           part
           of
           the
           reason
           is
           proved
           thus
           ,
           If
           the
           Apostles
           ever
           constituted
           and
           administred
           in
           such
           a
           Church
           catholick
           ,
           it
           was
           either
           that
           at
           Jerusalem
           mentioned
           Acts
           1
           ,
           &
           2.
           &c.
           or
           that
           assembly
           that
           met
           ,
           Acts
           15.
           (
           for
           we
           meet
           with
           no
           other
           that
           can
           with
           any
           colour
           of
           reason
           bee
           supposed
           )
           But
           neither
           of
           these
           were
           such
           a
           constituted
           Church
           ;
           Ergo.
           1
           Concerning
           the
           Church
           named
           ,
           Acts
           1.
           carryed
           on
           ,
           
             Acts
             2.
             &c.
          
           we
           freely
           grant
           it
           was
           a
           constituted
           Church
           ,
           
           wherein
           the
           Apostles
           with
           Elders
           and
           Deacons
           afterward
           chosen
           did
           govern
           ,
           for
           as
           it
           is
           called
           a
           Church
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           47.
           so
           likewise
           we
           see
           there
           were
           in
           it
           elections
           ,
           Act.
           1.
           
           &
           6.
           and
           administrations
           of
           instituted
           ordinances
           of
           worship
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           41
           ,
           42.
           admission
           of
           members
           ,
           Chap.
           2.
           41
           ,
           47.
           and
           by
           the
           same
           reason
           there
           might
           have
           been
           excommunication
           also
           :
           But
           that
           this
           Church
           was
           not
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           we
           prove
           thus
           :
           If
           it
           were
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           then
           it
           was
           such
           either
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           whole
           essence
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           or
           in
           respect
           of
           representation
           ;
           but
           neither
           ways
           :
           Ergo.
           The
           first
           it
           could
           not
           be
           ,
           because
           it
           consisted
           at
           the
           first
           but
           of
           120.
           which
           was
           a
           very
           small
           part
           of
           the
           Catholick
           number
           of
           visible
           beleevers
           ;
           for
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           15.
           6.
           there
           were
           above
           500
           Brethren
           to
           whom
           Christ
           appeared
           at
           once
           ,
           which
           was
           but
           some
           few
           weeks
           before
           ,
           besides
           all
           that
           in
           the
           Jewish
           Church
           were
           converted
           and
           baptized
           by
           John
           ,
           which
           were
           very
           many
           ;
           yea
           ,
           if
           we
           speak
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           properly
           all
           the
           Jewish
           Church
           ,
           not
           yet
           dissolved
           ,
           were
           part
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           of
           that
           age
           visible
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           if
           it
           had
           been
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           beleevers
           being
           already
           of
           it
           ,
           could
           not
           be
           said
           to
           be
           added
           to
           this
           ;
           as
           ,
           Acts
           5.
           13
           ,
           14.
           
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           was
           not
           Catholick
           in
           respect
           of
           representation
           ,
           for
           if
           so
           ,
           then
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Apostles
           onely
           as
           the
           Catholick
           guides
           ,
           or
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           whole
           assembly
           with
           them
           ,
           Acts
           1.
           not
           the
           first
           ,
           for
           then
           the
           Apostles
           onely
           should
           have
           had
           power
           to
           set
           apart
           Barnabas
           and
           Matthias
           ,
           but
           it
           is
           evident
           that
           that
           election
           was
           by
           Peter
           himself
           committed
           to
           ,
           and
           acted
           by
           the
           whole
           company
           called
           the
           Brethren
           and
           Disciples
           ,
           Acts
           1.
           15
           ,
           16
           ,
           26.
           where
           it
           appears
           that
           as
           he
           spake
           to
           all
           ,
           so
           it
           was
           concluded
           with
           the
           common
           suffrages
           of
           all
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           so
           ,
           because
           the
           Apostles
           were
           Catholick
           guides
           ,
           then
           where-ever
           they
           met
           was
           a
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           yea
           ,
           where
           two
           or
           three
           ,
           or
           any
           one
           of
           them
           was
           ,
           there
           was
           the
           Catholick
           representative
           church
           ,
           and
           so
           many
           such
           churches
           ,
           for
           any
           two
           or
           one
           had
           the
           catholick
           power
           as
           well
           as
           all
           ;
           Paul
           ordains
           ,
           rules
           ,
           and
           orders
           of
           discipline
           in
           all
           the
           churches
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           if
           all
           the
           Apostles
           had
           met
           ,
           1
           
             Cor.
             7.
             17.
             1
             
             Cor.
             16.
             1.
             2
             
             That
             assembly
          
           was
           not
           the
           representative
           catholick
           church
           ,
           because
           ,
           first
           ,
           there
           were
           the
           women
           in
           the
           same
           ,
           now
           women
           are
           no
           way
           capable
           of
           being
           messengers
           to
           represent
           churches
           :
           secondly
           ,
           besides
           ,
           these
           could
           not
           be
           representative
           messengers
           from
           other
           churches
           ,
           because
           this
           was
           the
           first
           constituted
           church
           ;
           we
           see
           no
           colour
           of
           reason
           
           that
           there
           were
           any
           other
           constituted
           visible
           churches
           before
           this
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           all
           the
           actions
           of
           that
           Church
           mentioned
           ,
           especially
           those
           in
           Acts
           2.
           41
           ,
           42.
           of
           admission
           of
           members
           ,
           baptism
           ,
           word
           ,
           seales
           ,
           fellowship
           day
           by
           day
           in
           such
           ordinances
           ,
           choice
           of
           Deacons
           ,
           &c.
           speak
           aloud
           against
           a
           representative
           Church
           ,
           we
           should
           rather
           have
           heard
           of
           constitutions
           ,
           censures
           ,
           &c.
           from
           such
           a
           representative
           Catholick
           church
           of
           generall
           counsell
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
          
           We
           are
           not
           ignorant
           what
           is
           said
           to
           the
           contrary
           ,
           viz.
           
             That
             it
             was
             the
             Catholick
             Church
             ,
             because
             they
             elected
             a
             Catholick
             officer
             for
             the
             whole
             Church
             ,
          
           viz.
           
             an
             Apostle
          
           .
        
         
           
             Ans
             .
          
           To
           which
           we
           answer
           ;
           1
           All
           the
           Catholick
           church
           and
           guides
           thereof
           had
           no
           power
           so
           to
           do
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           a
           particular
           church
           ,
           being
           a
           case
           reserved
           to
           Christ
           himself
           ,
           else
           Pauls
           argument
           to
           prove
           his
           Apostleship
           had
           not
           been
           strong
           ;
           because
           he
           was
           not
           called
           by
           man
           ,
           but
           by
           Christ
           himself
           ,
           and
           had
           seen
           the
           Lord
           ,
           &c.
           
             Gal.
             1.
             1.
             1
             
             Cor.
          
           9.
           1.
           2
           
           The
           act
           of
           the
           Church
           was
           onely
           a
           preparatory
           act
           thereunto
           with
           an
           after
           consent
           :
           the
           election
           was
           properly
           done
           immediately
           by
           a
           lot
           ,
           and
           what
           was
           done
           might
           as
           well
           be
           done
           in
           the
           first
           particular
           Church
           guided
           by
           the
           infallible
           spirit
           of
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           as
           by
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           it self
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           is
           objected
           ,
           
             Many
             of
             these
             were
             men
             of
          
           Galilee
           ,
           
             which
             by
             their
             habitation
             could
             not
             pertain
             to
             the
             Church
             in
          
           Jerusalem
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           True
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           and
           others
           were
           of
           Galilee
           ,
           but
           they
           had
           forsaken
           all
           to
           follow
           Christ
           ,
           and
           were
           commanded
           by
           Christ
           to
           remain
           a
           time
           at
           Jerusalem
           ,
           and
           then
           to
           goe
           forth
           to
           
             Samaria
             ,
             Judea
          
           ,
           and
           the
           utmost
           parts
           of
           the
           earth
           ,
           Acts
           1.
           4
           ,
           8.
           and
           therfore
           no
           Church
           relation
           in
           Galilee
           could
           hinder
           them
           from
           joyning
           in
           this
           first
           constituted
           Church
           ,
           or
           give
           any
           colour
           that
           they
           came
           as
           members
           representative
           from
           any
           Churches
           in
           Galilee
           .
           And
           so
           much
           for
           the
           plea
           for
           a
           Catholick
           church
           from
           
             Acts
             1.
             &c.
          
           
           Now
           concerning
           that
           which
           is
           supposed
           of
           a
           Catholick
           church
           representative
           in
           Act.
           15.
           
           If
           it
           were
           such
           ,
           then
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Apostles
           (
           the
           catholick
           Officers
           )
           onely
           ,
           or
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           body
           of
           the
           Assembly
           also
           ,
           but
           in
           neither
           respects
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           1
           ▪
           Not
           the
           first
           ,
           for
           then
           as
           was
           said
           ,
           any
           one
           Apostle
           may
           make
           a
           representative
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           having
           the
           whole
           power
           ,
           as
           much
           as
           all
           of
           them
           together
           ;
           for
           though
           they
           would
           meet
           oft
           to
           consult
           and
           assist
           one
           another
           ;
           yet
           not
           for
           defect
           of
           power
           in
           any
           one
           ;
           and
           we
           think
           our
           brethren
           here
           will
           not
           say
           it
           was
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Apostles
           alone
           ,
           supposing
           here
           they
           acted
           rather
           
           as
           Elders
           with
           the
           rest
           ,
           then
           out
           of
           their
           Apostolicall
           power
           .
        
         
           2
           Not
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           whole
           Assembly
           ,
           for
           then
           that
           assembly
           must
           consist
           of
           the
           messengers
           of
           all
           the
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           and
           the
           decrees
           should
           have
           been
           directed
           to
           all
           the
           Churches
           ;
           but
           neither
           of
           these
           can
           appear
           ;
           For
           ,
           first
           ,
           wee
           read
           of
           no
           other
           messengers
           but
           those
           from
           Antioch
           ,
           and
           how
           to
           evince
           more
           then
           the
           Scriptures
           reveal
           ,
           is
           hard
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           we
           look
           back
           and
           consider
           how
           far
           the
           Gospel
           was
           spread
           before
           this
           assembly
           ,
           it
           will
           appear
           very
           strange
           and
           absurd
           to
           suppose
           such
           a
           thing
           ;
           for
           Paul
           had
           been
           in
           Arabia
           before
           ever
           he
           came
           to
           
             Ierusalem
             ,
             Gal.
          
           1.
           17.
           and
           when
           he
           and
           Barnabas
           were
           sent
           out
           from
           
             Antioch
             ,
             Acts
          
           13.
           they
           went
           to
           severall
           Islands
           and
           Countreys
           ,
           as
           
             Cyprus
             ,
             Paphos
             ,
             Salamis
             ,
             &c.
          
           besides
           what
           other
           places
           scattered
           Christians
           and
           Apostles
           had
           preached
           in
           :
           now
           there
           is
           no
           probability
           of
           messengers
           ▪
           sent
           from
           all
           these
           places
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           the
           decrees
           were
           expresly
           directed
           to
           the
           Gentiles
           beleeving
           ,
           in
           
             Antioch
             ,
             Syria
          
           ,
           and
           Cilicia
           ,
           where
           it
           seems
           this
           question
           had
           troubled
           the
           minds
           of
           the
           Disciples
           ,
           Acts
           15.
           23
           ,
           24.
           which
           was
           far
           short
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ;
           neither
           is
           it
           proved
           that
           the
           Churches
           of
           Syria
           and
           Cilicia
           had
           any
           messengers
           there
           ,
           much
           lesse
           that
           all
           the
           Churches
           had
           their
           messengers
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
          
           But
           it
           is
           said
           ,
           
             they
             might
             have
             had
             their
             messengers
             there
             ,
             if
             they
             would
             ,
             and
             therefore
             they
             were
             bound
             to
             the
             decrees
             as
             of
             a
             generall
             Councell
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           must
           first
           be
           proved
           ,
           that
           all
           Churches
           had
           lawfull
           summons
           to
           send
           their
           messengers
           to
           that
           Assembly
           ,
           before
           there
           can
           be
           laid
           any
           blame
           on
           them
           for
           neglecting
           the
           same
           ,
           or
           they
           be
           all
           tyed
           to
           the
           decrees
           of
           such
           an
           Assembly
           as
           a
           generall
           Councell
           ,
           which
           seems
           to
           us
           not
           so
           much
           as
           probable
           ,
           much
           lesse
           to
           be
           proved
           by
           any
           where
           the
           Scripture
           is
           so
           silent
           .
        
         
           
             Arg.
             2.
             
          
           Every
           politicall
           Body
           is
           constituted
           by
           the
           combination
           of
           all
           the
           members
           into
           a
           Society
           .
        
         
           But
           Christ
           hath
           not
           instituted
           that
           the
           Catholick
           church
           should
           combine
           into
           a
           Society
           .
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Propos
             .
          
           Proved
           ,
           because
           there
           can
           be
           no
           instances
           given
           of
           any
           free
           Society
           ,
           civill
           or
           sacred
           ,
           that
           was
           under
           policy
           ,
           but
           that
           it
           arose
           from
           combination
           .
        
         
           How
           came
           Israel
           to
           be
           one
           Nationall
           church
           ,
           but
           by
           a
           National
           covenant
           ?
           and
           that
           before
           it
           had
           Officers
           ;
           or
           how
           comes
           any
           nationall
           ,
           provinciall
           ,
           classicall
           Church
           that
           are
           pleaded
           for
           to
           be
           such
           ,
           but
           by
           some
           such
           combination
           ?
           Why
           is
           this
           Church
           of
           this
           
           Classis
           not
           of
           another
           but
           by
           combination
           ?
           Secondly
           ,
           in
           a
           politicall
           body
           ,
           the
           whole
           hath
           power
           to
           order
           every
           part
           ,
           but
           this
           power
           among
           persons
           that
           are
           free
           ,
           is
           onely
           by
           combination
           .
        
         
           
             Assump
             .
          
           Proved
           :
           first
           ,
           because
           Christ
           never
           instituted
           that
           which
           is
           impossible
           ,
           as
           this
           is
           ,
           for
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           in
           every
           age
           so
           to
           doe
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           Christ
           ordained
           combination
           for
           communion
           in
           his
           Worship
           ,
           but
           this
           communion
           also
           is
           impossible
           to
           the
           Catholick
           church
           as
           one
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           corrupt
           Churches
           are
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           but
           it
           is
           hard
           for
           us
           to
           beleeve
           ,
           or
           any
           to
           prove
           that
           Christ
           hath
           instituted
           such
           combination
           of
           all
           Churches
           ,
           
             Asian
             ,
             African
             ,
             European
             ,
             American
             ,
          
           corrupt
           and
           uncorrupt
           ,
           for
           prudent
           men
           may
           easily
           foresee
           the
           heavy
           consequents
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             3.
             
          
           Every
           Politicall
           Church
           by
           the
           institution
           of
           Christ
           hath
           power
           to
           elect
           her
           own
           Pastor
           or
           Pastors
           over
           it
           .
        
         
           But
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           hath
           not
           such
           power
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Proposit
             .
          
           Proved
           .
           This
           all
           Scripture
           examples
           shew
           ,
           that
           every
           Church
           or
           flock
           of
           beleevers
           had
           her
           Pastor
           ,
           
             Act.
             14.
             
             Tit.
          
           1.
           
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           (
           according
           to
           our
           Brethrens
           principles
           )
           if
           a
           particular
           Church
           may
           choose
           a
           Pastor
           ,
           much
           more
           the
           Catholick
           ,
           because
           all
           priviledges
           are
           primarily
           given
           to
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           and
           what
           belongs
           to
           the
           part
           of
           a
           similar
           Body
           ,
           (
           as
           a
           part
           )
           that
           much
           more
           belongs
           to
           the
           whole
           .
        
         
           
             Assump
             .
          
           Proved
           first
           ,
           If
           the
           Catholick
           church
           may
           choose
           Pastors
           over
           it
           ,
           then
           they
           may
           make
           Apostles
           ,
           because
           Catholick
           Pastors
           over
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           the
           Reasons
           against
           an
           universall
           Bishop
           are
           strong
           here
           ,
           as
           that
           their
           office
           is
           not
           described
           in
           the
           Word
           ,
           nor
           their
           power
           able
           to
           reach
           all
           Churches
           .
        
         
           If
           it
           be
           said
           ,
           that
           the
           Catholick
           church
           can
           choose
           her
           Pastors
           in
           the
           parts
           or
           particular
           Societies
           ,
           which
           are
           Pastors
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           though
           not
           Catholick
           Pastors
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           this
           be
           meant
           of
           the
           particular
           Churches
           choosing
           Pastors
           over
           themselves
           ,
           who
           are
           in
           some
           respects
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           (
           as
           being
           
             partes
             partium
          
           ,
           and
           so
           
             partes
             totius
             ▪
          
           )
           then
           they
           come
           to
           our
           hand
           ,
           for
           thus
           it
           appears
           that
           there
           is
           no
           Catholick
           totum
           ,
           that
           is
           the
           subject
           of
           officers
           but
           in
           its
           parts
           .
        
         
           But
           the
           question
           is
           ,
           Whether
           all
           particular
           Churches
           having
           the
           
           officers
           in
           them
           ,
           do
           make
           one
           political
           Body
           or
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           and
           so
           have
           power
           to
           choose
           Catholick
           Pastors
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             4.
             
          
           Christ
           Jesus
           instituted
           no
           such
           politicall
           Body
           as
           destroys
           Church
           policy
           .
        
         
           But
           such
           a
           Catholick
           church
           politicall
           destroys
           policy
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Assump
             .
          
           Proved
           :
           because
           it
           swallows
           up
           the
           power
           not
           onely
           of
           all
           Churches
           congregationall
           ,
           but
           all
           other
           forms
           of
           Churches
           ,
           by
           taking
           the
           power
           of
           excommunication
           from
           them
           ;
           for
           the
           power
           of
           excommunication
           is
           seated
           by
           Christ
           in
           that
           Church
           ,
           from
           which
           there
           can
           be
           justly
           no
           appeal
           ,
           for
           Matth.
           18.
           the
           power
           of
           excommunication
           is
           seated
           in
           such
           a
           Church
           ,
           as
           whatsoever
           it
           binds
           on
           earth
           ,
           is
           bound
           in
           heaven
           by
           the
           highest
           Judge
           ,
           in
           the
           highest
           Court
           ;
           and
           from
           the
           sentence
           of
           this
           highest
           court
           and
           Judge
           ,
           how
           can
           there
           be
           any
           appeal
           ?
        
         
           But
           now
           supposing
           such
           a
           Catholick
           church
           having
           power
           of
           excommunication
           ,
           and
           that
           as
           the
           highest
           Church
           ,
           hence
           no
           inferior
           Church
           can
           binde
           on
           earth
           ,
           so
           as
           that
           the
           same
           is
           bound
           in
           heaven
           ,
           seeing
           appeales
           may
           be
           made
           from
           them
           to
           an
           higher
           power
           on
           earth
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
          
           
             If
             it
             be
             said
             that
             the
             sentence
             of
             an
             inferior
             Judge
             ,
             proceeding
             rightly
             (
             as
             in
             an
             inferior
             Sanhedrin
             )
             is
             ratified
             in
             heaven
             ,
             yet
             may
             we
             appeale
             from
             him
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           deny
           that
           the
           sentence
           of
           every
           civill
           Court
           doth
           binde
           in
           heaven
           (
           in
           the
           sense
           of
           our
           Saviour
           :
           )
           for
           every
           civil
           Court
           hath
           not
           this
           promise
           of
           binding
           and
           loosing
           ,
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           not
           belonging
           to
           the
           civill
           Magistrate
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           suppose
           there
           were
           such
           a
           binding
           in
           civill
           Courts
           ,
           and
           appeals
           may
           be
           yet
           made
           from
           them
           ,
           yet
           this
           is
           because
           there
           is
           supposed
           a
           supreme
           Court
           in
           being
           ,
           to
           which
           the
           appeale
           may
           be
           prosecuted
           and
           there
           determined
           ,
           (
           as
           in
           the
           highest
           Sanhedrin
           of
           Israel
           .
           )
           But
           there
           is
           not
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           nor
           like
           to
           be
           ,
           such
           a
           supreme
           Court
           where
           such
           appeals
           may
           be
           ended
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             2
             ▪
          
           
             If
             it
             be
             said
             ,
             that
             what
             a
             particular
             Church
             binds
             on
             earth
             is
             bound
             in
             heaven
             ,
             except
             they
             erre
             ,
             but
             then
             appeals
             may
             be
             made
             ,
             and
             their
             power
             is
             gone
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           On
           this
           ground
           the
           universall
           Church
           should
           not
           have
           power
           to
           bind
           on
           earth
           so
           as
           in
           heaven
           without
           appeales
           ,
           for
           they
           may
           erre
           ;
           and
           that
           not
           onely
           rarely
           but
           frequently
           ;
           witnesse
           the
           complaint
           of
           Nazianzen
           and
           others
           of
           the
           time
           passed
           ;
           yea
           ,
           they
           may
           be
           as
           much
           inclined
           to
           erre
           ▪
           considering
           the
           greatest
           part
           
           of
           Churches
           in
           the
           world
           are
           for
           the
           most
           part
           corrupt
           ,
           yea
           ,
           though
           they
           may
           have
           better
           eyes
           ,
           yet
           they
           are
           further
           from
           the
           mark
           ;
           if
           particular
           Churches
           have
           no
           power
           of
           excommunication
           ,
           because
           they
           may
           erre
           ,
           be
           corrupt
           ,
           be
           partiall
           ,
           or
           be
           divided
           ;
           upon
           the
           same
           consideration
           ,
           neither
           Classicall
           ,
           Nationall
           ,
           or
           oecumeniall
           Councells
           have
           any
           such
           power
           ;
           for
           they
           may
           erre
           ,
           grow
           corrupt
           ,
           be
           partiall
           ,
           and
           be
           miserably
           divided
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           a
           congregationall
           Church
           ;
           other
           Churches
           may
           admonish
           in
           case
           of
           scandall
           ,
           and
           counsell
           ,
           when
           a
           particular
           congregation
           wants
           light
           ;
           and
           moderate
           (
           if
           desired
           )
           in
           case
           of
           difference
           ;
           but
           still
           the
           power
           is
           in
           the
           particular
           Church
           .
        
         
           Other
           arguments
           might
           be
           added
           ,
           but
           seeing
           this
           controversie
           ,
           as
           we
           hope
           ,
           will
           be
           more
           fully
           and
           purposely
           disputed
           by
           a
           farre
           better
           hand
           ,
           therefore
           we
           shall
           fall
           to
           the
           consideration
           of
           such
           Scriptures
           ,
           and
           some
           few
           generall
           Arguments
           which
           we
           meet
           withall
           in
           Mr.
           Ball
           briefly
           propounded
           ,
           and
           in
           divers
           other
           Authors
           more
           largely
           insisted
           upon
           ;
           which
           if
           the
           Lord
           be
           pleased
           to
           helpe
           us
           to
           vindicate
           and
           clear
           up
           ,
           we
           think
           other
           reasons
           and
           Scriptures
           of
           lesse
           force
           will
           fall
           of
           themselves
           .
        
         
           And
           first
           we
           finde
           ,
           
             Cant.
             6.
             4.
             
             &c.
          
           to
           prove
           the
           whole
           Catholick
           church
           visible
           to
           be
           one
           Ministeriall
           Body
           ,
           because
           it
           is
           called
           One
           ,
           compared
           to
           an
           Army
           terrible
           with
           Banners
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           order
           of
           Discipline
           ,
           and
           described
           as
           being
           an
           organicall
           Body
           having
           eyes
           ,
           hair
           ,
           teeth
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           
             Theologia
             Symbolica
             non
             est
             argumentativa
          
           ,
           except
           it
           can
           be
           made
           clear
           that
           the
           parable
           is
           applyed
           according
           to
           the
           true
           scope
           of
           it
           ,
           and
           no
           further
           ,
           which
           here
           is
           very
           hard
           to
           evince
           :
           we
           know
           the
           whole
           Book
           of
           the
           Canticles
           is
           variously
           applyed
           by
           good
           Interpreters
           ,
           Brightman
           (
           none
           of
           the
           meanest
           in
           this
           kinde
           of
           
           Scriptures
           )
           applyes
           this
           place
           to
           the
           church
           of
           Geneva
           ,
           and
           the
           times
           of
           purer
           Churches
           to
           arise
           after
           it
           ,
           which
           are
           said
           to
           be
           terrible
           as
           an
           Army
           with
           Banners
           ;
           not
           in
           respect
           of
           Discipline
           ,
           but
           in
           respect
           of
           warlike
           power
           ,
           whereby
           that
           state
           of
           the
           church
           shall
           defend
           it self
           .
        
         
           2
           But
           suppose
           that
           it
           is
           a
           description
           of
           the
           catholick
           church
           visible
           ,
           yet
           it
           cannot
           be
           a
           sufficient
           argument
           that
           it
           is
           one
           Ministeriall
           church
           :
           For
           ,
           first
           ,
           the
           catholick
           church
           is
           the
           same
           in
           all
           ages
           ,
           and
           therefore
           by
           this
           reason
           it
           was
           a
           catholick
           Ministeriall
           body
           ,
           as
           well
           in
           the
           days
           from
           Adam
           to
           
             Abraham
             ,
             &c.
          
           as
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           ▪
           Secondly
           ,
           by
           this
           argument
           we
           may
           prove
           Christ
           
           the
           head
           and
           husband
           of
           the
           church
           to
           be
           an
           organicall
           body
           ,
           as
           he
           is
           the
           Head
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           for
           
             Cant.
             5.
             10
             ,
             11.
             &c.
          
           the
           Church
           doth
           allegorically
           describe
           the
           beauty
           and
           excellency
           of
           Christ
           ,
           in
           severall
           organs
           and
           parts
           :
           but
           we
           suppose
           though
           Christ
           Jesus
           in
           his
           humane
           nature
           hath
           members
           ,
           yet
           the
           scope
           of
           the
           Church
           is
           not
           at
           all
           to
           set
           forth
           the
           members
           of
           his
           humane
           body
           ,
           but
           the
           glorious
           excellencies
           ,
           and
           spirituall
           perfections
           of
           Christ
           as
           the
           Redeemer
           and
           Saviour
           of
           his
           Church
           ,
           according
           to
           the
           manner
           of
           Lovers
           ,
           who
           are
           taken
           with
           the
           beauty
           of
           their
           spouses
           in
           all
           their
           members
           ;
           When
           the
           spouse
           saith
           ,
           
             Cant.
             1.
             1.
             
             Let
             him
             kisse
             me
             with
             the
             kisses
             of
             his
             mouth
          
           ;
           it
           were
           too
           grosse
           to
           apply
           it
           to
           the
           humanity
           of
           Christ
           ,
           or
           to
           argue
           from
           thence
           that
           Christ
           the
           husband
           of
           his
           Church
           is
           an
           organicall
           body
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           and
           lastly
           ,
           when
           the
           Church
           is
           called
           
             One
             ,
             the
             onely
             one
             of
             her
             Mother
          
           ;
           though
           it
           's
           true
           she
           is
           one
           ,
           it
           seems
           rather
           to
           set
           out
           her
           excellency
           as
           rare
           ,
           and
           but
           one
           ,
           then
           her
           unity
           :
           and
           so
           the
           other
           descriptions
           all
           tend
           to
           set
           forth
           her
           beauty
           in
           the
           eye
           and
           esteem
           of
           Christ
           ;
           neither
           is
           it
           any
           thing
           that
           the
           Church
           is
           compared
           to
           an
           Army
           terrible
           with
           banners
           ,
           for
           in
           the
           same
           Chap.
           vers
           .
           the
           last
           ,
           she
           is
           compared
           to
           the
           company
           of
           Mahanaim
           ,
           or
           two
           Armies
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           all
           one
           )
           for
           the
           company
           of
           Mahanaim
           consisted
           of
           two
           Armies
           ,
           Gen.
           32.
           1
           ,
           2
           ,
           3.
           where
           Jacobs
           host
           meeting
           an
           host
           of
           Angels
           ,
           he
           calls
           the
           place
           Mahanaim
           ,
           or
           ,
           two
           Hosts
           ;
           and
           therefore
           we
           may
           as
           well
           say
           the
           Catholick
           church
           is
           terrible
           ,
           with
           two
           Armies
           of
           Banners
           ,
           as
           one
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           A
           second
           and
           chief
           Scripture
           we
           meet
           withall
           in
           divers
           Authors
           is
           1
           
             Cor.
             12.
             12
             ,
             13.
             &c.
          
           Whence
           the
           reason
           stands
           thus
           :
           That
           church
           wherein
           Apostles
           ,
           Prophets
           ,
           Teachers
           ,
           &c.
           are
           set
           ,
           is
           an
           organicall
           Church
           .
        
         
           But
           those
           are
           set
           in
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           ;
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           For
           the
           better
           clearing
           of
           this
           Scripture
           ,
           it
           is
           needfull
           ,
           that
           we
           attend
           the
           scope
           of
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           who
           comming
           now
           to
           another
           branch
           of
           the
           things
           this
           Church
           had
           written
           unto
           him
           about
           ,
           Chap.
           7.
           1.
           
           &
           8.
           1.
           
           &
           12.
           1.
           and
           this
           about
           spirituall
           gifts
           ,
           wherein
           they
           abounded
           ,
           Chap.
           1.
           7.
           being
           the
           occasion
           of
           all
           their
           contentions
           and
           disorders
           ,
           Chap.
           1.
           12
           ,
           13.
           hence
           he
           is
           studious
           the
           more
           to
           re-unite
           them
           again
           ,
           Chap.
           12.
           13.
           and
           to
           direct
           them
           how
           to
           improve
           their
           gifts
           orderly
           to
           edification
           ,
           Chap.
           14.
           and
           in
           this
           Chapter
           he
           perswades
           their
           minds
           to
           unity
           who
           were
           divided
           ,
           partly
           through
           pride
           in
           their
           own
           gifts
           ;
           partly
           ,
           by
           disdain
           of
           
           others
           not
           so
           gifted
           ;
           hence
           he
           puts
           them
           in
           minde
           ;
           1
           What
           once
           they
           were
           following
           dumb
           idols
           .
           2
           That
           all
           gifts
           are
           from
           the
           free
           dispensation
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           that
           one
           God
           ,
           one
           Lord
           ,
           one
           Spirit
           .
           3
           That
           God
           in
           his
           wisdom
           hath
           dispensed
           great
           variety
           of
           gifts
           ,
           operations
           and
           administrations
           .
           4
           That
           all
           are
           given
           to
           profit
           withal
           ,
           and
           these
           things
           he
           illustrates
           by
           a
           simile
           taken
           from
           a
           naturall
           body
           ,
           which
           having
           largely
           presented
           and
           applyed
           to
           this
           Church
           ,
           vers
           .
           27.
           he
           concludes
           with
           the
           variety
           of
           administrations
           in
           such
           things
           wherein
           they
           so
           much
           differed
           ,
           Chap.
           1.
           12
           ,
           13.
           
           God
           hath
           set
           ,
           saith
           he
           ,
           in
           the
           Church
           not
           onely
           Apostles
           ,
           or
           Prophets
           ,
           or
           tongues
           ,
           &c.
           but
           all
           these
           ;
           are
           all
           Apostles
           ?
           are
           all
           Prophets
           ,
           &
           c
           ?
           no
           ,
           but
           the
           wisdom
           of
           God
           hath
           given
           you
           variety
           of
           these
           gifts
           and
           administrations
           ;
           and
           therefore
           ,
           Chap.
           3.
           to
           quiet
           them
           ,
           he
           saith
           ,
           
             Paul
             an
             Apostle
             ,
             Apollos
             an
             Evangelist
             ,
             &c.
             all
             are
             yours
          
           ;
           and
           as
           this
           is
           the
           scope
           of
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           so
           we
           see
           nothing
           in
           the
           Chapter
           but
           is
           appliable
           to
           Corinth
           in
           particular
           ,
           yea
           ,
           applyed
           unto
           them
           by
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           as
           what
           he
           spake
           vers
           .
           22.
           of
           one
           body
           ,
           he
           applyes
           to
           them
           ,
           vers
           .
           27.
           what
           he
           spake
           ,
           vers
           .
           28.
           of
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           other
           gifts
           set
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           he
           applyes
           also
           to
           them
           ,
           Chap.
           14.
           whereas
           he
           speaks
           of
           the
           exercise
           of
           divers
           gifts
           in
           that
           Church
           ,
           when
           the
           whole
           Church
           came
           together
           ,
           vers
           .
           23
           ,
           so
           he
           speaks
           the
           same
           of
           himself
           an
           Apostle
           ,
           
             vers
             .
             6.
             
             When
             I
             come
             ,
             &c
             ▪
          
           We
           take
           notice
           of
           divers
           reasons
           alledged
           from
           the
           Chapter
           ,
           that
           he
           spake
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           but
           they
           doe
           not
           inforce
           it
           ;
           for
           grant
           such
           things
           are
           true
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           in
           a
           sense
           ,
           viz.
           that
           in
           it
           God
           works
           all
           in
           all
           ,
           in
           it
           are
           diversities
           of
           gifts
           ,
           &c.
           yet
           the
           Apostles
           scope
           is
           to
           speak
           to
           this
           Church
           ,
           as
           hath
           been
           shewed
           ,
           and
           all
           are
           truly
           applyable
           unto
           it
           ,
           this
           Church
           came
           behinde
           in
           no
           good
           gift
           ,
           Chap.
           1.
           7.
           this
           Church
           was
           one
           body
           ,
           vers
           .
           27.
           and
           baptized
           into
           one
           body
           ,
           whether
           Jews
           or
           Gentiles
           ,
           bond
           or
           free
           ,
           the
           members
           of
           this
           Church
           needed
           the
           helpe
           one
           of
           another
           ,
           must
           not
           make
           schismes
           in
           the
           Body
           ,
           must
           care
           one
           for
           another
           ,
           &c.
           yea
           ,
           Apostles
           as
           well
           as
           other
           gifts
           were
           in
           the
           church
           ,
           1
           
             Cor.
             3.
             1.
             1
             
             Cor.
          
           14.
           6.
           
           So
           that
           from
           the
           scope
           and
           drift
           of
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           all
           these
           Offices
           and
           gifts
           might
           be
           ,
           and
           were
           set
           in
           Corinth
           ,
           and
           therefore
           this
           place
           will
           not
           evince
           a
           Catholick
           organicall
           body
           ;
           yet
           we
           mean
           not
           that
           Apostles
           were
           wedged
           in
           here
           ,
           but
           they
           were
           set
           also
           in
           every
           church
           ,
           as
           also
           Teachers
           are
           in
           every
           church
           ,
           but
           each
           according
           to
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           Office
           ,
           the
           one
           limited
           ,
           the
           other
           not
           .
        
         
         
           Secondly
           ,
           we
           deny
           not
           but
           in
           this
           discourse
           the
           Apostle
           also
           ,
           vers
           .
           12
           ,
           13.
           intendeth
           the
           whole
           mysticall
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           which
           is
           one
           Christ
           ,
           neither
           doe
           we
           deny
           that
           these
           gifts
           of
           Apostles
           ,
           Prophets
           ,
           &c.
           are
           given
           to
           this
           Church
           ,
           but
           this
           will
           not
           prove
           it
           to
           be
           an
           organicall
           Church
           .
           For
           what
           is
           this
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           this
           one
           Christ
           into
           whom
           all
           are
           baptized
           ,
           &c.
           
           It
           is
           properly
           the
           whole
           company
           of
           true
           beleevers
           in
           all
           ages
           ,
           and
           so
           containes
           the
           invisible
           body
           of
           Christ
           ;
           which
           Catholick
           body
           of
           all
           ages
           ,
           cannot
           properly
           make
           an
           organicall
           body
           :
           and
           be
           it
           so
           ,
           that
           this
           body
           is
           visible
           ,
           having
           visible
           ordinances
           ,
           baptized
           and
           drunk
           into
           one
           body
           ,
           yet
           the
           Apostle
           respects
           the
           reall
           union
           of
           all
           the
           members
           to
           Christ
           ;
           and
           therefore
           Interpreters
           understand
           spirituall
           and
           effectuall
           baptism
           ,
           containing
           the
           inward
           vertue
           with
           the
           outward
           sign
           .
        
         
           Again
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           were
           fit
           for
           the
           gathering
           in
           of
           the
           elect
           amongst
           all
           the
           heathen
           nations
           ,
           but
           that
           proves
           not
           all
           these
           elect
           (
           who
           also
           are
           a
           part
           of
           Christs
           sheep
           ,
           John
           10.
           16.
           
           )
           were
           an
           organicall
           Church
           ,
           or
           a
           part
           of
           it
           ,
           till
           called
           and
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
           In
           a
           word
           ,
           Apostles
           ,
           Prophets
           ,
           &c.
           were
           given
           to
           ,
           and
           set
           in
           the
           mysticall
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           as
           the
           chief
           object
           and
           end
           for
           whose
           sake
           and
           good
           ,
           they
           were
           intentionally
           ordained
           of
           Christ
           ,
           but
           not
           set
           in
           it
           as
           one
           organicall
           body
           ,
           for
           the
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           administration
           of
           the
           visible
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           to
           it
           ,
           but
           thus
           to
           it
           ,
           as
           gathered
           into
           such
           Church
           societies
           as
           the
           Lord
           hath
           instituted
           for
           that
           end
           ,
           and
           in
           this
           sense
           we
           agree
           with
           learned
           Mr.
           
             Rutherford
             libro
          
           of
           the
           right
           of
           Presbyt
           .
           pag.
           291.
           
        
         
           Ask
           (
           saith
           he
           )
           
             to
             what
             end
             ,
             and
             to
             what
             first
             principall
             subject
             hath
             the
             Lord
             given
             reason
             ,
             and
             the
             faculty
             to
             discourse
             ?
             Is
             it
             to
             Peter
             ,
             John
             ,
             &c.
             as
             to
             the
             first
             subject
             ,
             and
             to
             them
             as
             for
             their
             good
             ?
             No
             ,
             no
             ,
             it
             is
             to
             ,
             and
             for
             the
             race
             of
             mankind
             .
          
           The
           case
           is
           just
           so
           here
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           12.
           28.
           
           God
           hath
           set
           Apostles
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           We
           say
           also
           it
           is
           just
           so
           here
           ,
           as
           God
           hath
           given
           reason
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           end
           to
           mankinde
           first
           ,
           and
           then
           to
           the
           individua
           ;
           so
           God
           hath
           set
           in
           the
           mysticall
           Church
           for
           the
           good
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           chiefly
           intended
           by
           Christ
           ,
           Apostles
           ,
           Prophets
           ,
           &c.
           but
           now
           as
           in
           the
           actuall
           dispensing
           of
           this
           gift
           of
           reason
           for
           the
           good
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           Reason
           is
           not
           given
           to
           any
           such
           body
           ,
           as
           the
           whole
           race
           of
           mankinde
           ,
           to
           descend
           to
           
             John
             ,
             Peter
             ,
             &c.
          
           but
           first
           to
           
             John
             ,
             Peter
          
           ,
           and
           all
           the
           individualls
           ,
           that
           so
           by
           induction
           of
           all
           particulars
           ,
           the
           
           whole
           kinde
           of
           reasonable
           man
           may
           be
           made
           up
           ,
           and
           the
           end
           attained
           ,
           and
           so
           it
           is
           here
           :
           God
           in
           giving
           Officers
           and
           gifts
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           mysticall
           body
           of
           Christ
           firstly
           ,
           yet
           in
           execution
           gives
           these
           Officers
           ,
           and
           sets
           them
           in
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           that
           by
           the
           edification
           and
           perfection
           of
           all
           particulars
           ,
           the
           whole
           may
           be
           attained
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           Apostles
           ,
           Prophets
           ,
           and
           all
           gifts
           and
           offices
           in
           generall
           and
           indefinitely
           ,
           are
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           indefinitely
           considered
           ,
           but
           particular
           officers
           ,
           
             Paul
             ,
             Cephas
             ,
             Apollo
             ,
             Titus
             ,
             Archippus
             ,
             &c.
          
           are
           given
           or
           set
           in
           particular
           Churches
           ;
           we
           mean
           ,
           according
           to
           the
           severall
           natures
           and
           extents
           of
           their
           offices
           ;
           As
           unto
           Bees
           in
           generall
           is
           given
           a
           power
           to
           gather
           honey
           ,
           and
           order
           themselves
           in
           their
           hives
           ;
           but
           in
           their
           exercise
           of
           this
           power
           it
           is
           given
           to
           the
           severall
           swarms
           in
           the
           hives
           ,
           who
           have
           their
           Queens
           ,
           &c.
           to
           order
           themselves
           .
           But
           as
           this
           power
           in
           generall
           makes
           not
           a
           universall
           organicall
           body
           of
           Bees
           ;
           no
           more
           here
           an
           universall
           organicall
           Church
           .
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           to
           speak
           more
           particularly
           ,
           we
           conceive
           that
           the
           place
           in
           the
           utmost
           latitude
           of
           it
           is
           meant
           of
           the
           mysticall
           body
           ,
           that
           one
           body
           into
           which
           all
           are
           baptized
           ,
           vers
           .
           13.
           
           And
           that
           the
           fundamentall
           mistake
           of
           our
           Brethren
           is
           this
           ,
           that
           because
           the
           Church
           here
           mentioned
           hath
           Organs
           and
           politicall
           Officers
           in
           it
           ,
           that
           therefore
           it
           must
           needs
           make
           one
           politicall
           Church
           ,
           where
           some
           Organs
           are
           to
           rule
           in
           common
           ,
           and
           every
           part
           is
           to
           be
           subject
           to
           the
           whole
           .
           For
           although
           the
           mysticall
           Church
           hath
           Organs
           and
           politicall
           Officers
           in
           it
           ;
           yet
           it
           follows
           not
           therefore
           that
           it
           is
           one
           politicall
           body
           .
           For
           the
           invisible
           Church
           conjoyned
           with
           the
           visible
           ,
           hath
           politicall
           Officers
           set
           in
           it
           ,
           and
           given
           to
           it
           as
           invisible
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           visible
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           Gods
           generall
           designation
           and
           particular
           application
           of
           them
           to
           this
           whole
           Church
           ;
           yet
           it
           follows
           not
           that
           they
           are
           one
           politicall
           body
           by
           actuall
           combination
           thereunto
           ;
           actuall
           combination
           ,
           we
           say
           ,
           for
           although
           Christs
           institution
           must
           warrant
           and
           prescribe
           all
           forms
           of
           politicall
           bodies
           ,
           yet
           it
           will
           not
           be
           found
           that
           ever
           there
           was
           any
           politicall
           Society
           without
           actuall
           combination
           ,
           whether
           civill
           or
           sacred
           ,
           whether
           nationall
           or
           more
           particular
           .
           The
           mysticall
           Church
           may
           be
           said
           to
           be
           organicall
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Officers
           amongst
           them
           in
           the
           severall
           parts
           thereof
           ;
           every
           part
           being
           a
           part
           of
           the
           whole
           spiritually
           ,
           though
           not
           politically
           .
           But
           it
           doth
           not
           thence
           follow
           that
           the
           whole
           is
           one
           politicall
           
           body
           ,
           but
           mysticall
           .
           Politicall
           Officers
           may
           ,
           and
           must
           suppose
           some
           part
           of
           the
           Church
           to
           be
           visible
           ,
           but
           not
           that
           the
           whole
           should
           be
           Politicall
           .
           For
           the
           Apostles
           (
           by
           extraordinary
           Commission
           for
           their
           time
           were
           officers
           of
           visible
           beleevers
           ,
           fit
           matter
           for
           a
           combination
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           of
           particular
           combinations
           :
           yet
           it
           follows
           not
           that
           visible
           beleevers
           existing
           out
           of
           combinations
           were
           a
           politicall
           Society
           that
           would
           never
           meet
           to
           combine
           ;
           but
           they
           were
           onely
           a
           visible
           number
           of
           Saints
           .
        
         
           We
           have
           been
           thus
           large
           in
           clearing
           this
           Scripture
           ,
           because
           we
           conceive
           the
           chief
           strength
           of
           the
           contrary
           opinion
           to
           lye
           in
           it
           .
           And
           this
           being
           answered
           ,
           the
           light
           of
           it
           we
           hope
           will
           scatter
           the
           darknesse
           that
           is
           brought
           upon
           divers
           other
           Scriptures
           which
           are
           drawn
           to
           prove
           such
           a
           kinde
           of
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           as
           Rom.
           12.
           4.
           
           &c.
           
             Col.
             1.
             25.
             1
             
             Tim.
             3.
             15.
             
             Ephes
             .
          
           4.
           11.
           
           In
           which
           last
           Scripture
           we
           never
           doubted
           but
           that
           the
           Officers
           were
           given
           ,
           not
           for
           that
           particular
           Church
           of
           Ephesus
           onely
           ,
           much
           lesse
           to
           such
           a
           diminutive
           Congregation
           consisting
           of
           40
           ,
           60
           ,
           or
           100
           onely
           ,
           as
           if
           we
           intended
           to
           impawn
           all
           power
           in
           this
           or
           that
           Congregational
           body
           ;
           but
           to
           a
           congregationall
           Church
           considered
           as
           the
           genus
           of
           all
           particular
           Congregations
           of
           the
           world
           .
           Neither
           to
           this
           congregationall
           Church
           onely
           ,
           but
           to
           all
           that
           are
           to
           be
           gathered
           to
           the
           unity
           of
           the
           faith
           .
           But
           doth
           this
           argue
           one
           politicall
           body
           consisting
           of
           all
           these
           ?
           For
           though
           ,
           vers
           .
           16.
           the
           whole
           body
           be
           said
           to
           be
           compacted
           ;
           yet
           that
           this
           should
           be
           understood
           of
           a
           politicall
           ,
           not
           spirituall
           way
           of
           compacting
           ,
           we
           confesse
           (
           with
           submission
           )
           our
           weaknesse
           cannot
           apprehend
           .
        
         
           The
           last
           Scripture
           which
           we
           find
           cited
           that
           seemeth
           to
           look
           this
           way
           ,
           is
           1
           
             Pet.
             5.
             1.
             
             Feed
             the
             flock
             which
             is
             among
             you
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           We
           answer
           :
           It
           must
           necessarily
           be
           understood
           distributively
           ,
           for
           the
           severall
           flocks
           in
           all
           those
           Countreys
           to
           be
           fed
           by
           their
           particular
           Elders
           ;
           not
           collectively
           ,
           to
           be
           fed
           as
           one
           flock
           in
           common
           :
           For
           the
           Countreys
           are
           so
           many
           and
           large
           ,
           as
           it
           was
           impossible
           .
           Yea
           ,
           we
           have
           a
           clear
           parallel
           ,
           James
           2.
           2.
           where
           writing
           to
           the
           Jews
           of
           the
           twelve
           Tribes
           scattered
           abroad
           ,
           yet
           he
           speaks
           of
           a
           man
           comming
           into
           their
           Assembly
           ;
           which
           cannot
           be
           meant
           collectively
           ,
           as
           if
           they
           had
           one
           assembly
           amongst
           them
           all
           ,
           but
           distributively
           of
           any
           assembly
           .
        
         
           2
           Though
           they
           bee
           called
           a
           flock
           ,
           not
           flocks
           ,
           yet
           this
           ,
           as
           Baines
           observes
           ,
           was
           not
           because
           it
           was
           one
           flock
           really
           in
           themselves
           ,
           but
           in
           some
           respect
           of
           reason
           ;
           which
           also
           he
           expounds
           to
           
           be
           
             per
             internam
          
           (
           we
           had
           rather
           say
           ,
           
             spiritualem
             )
             unionem
          
           ,
           but
           not
           
             per
             externam
             combinationem
          
           ;
           in
           respect
           of
           which
           spirituall
           union
           ,
           that
           is
           true
           which
           Mr.
           Ball
           citeth
           out
           of
           
             Cyprian
             ,
             Etsi
             Pastores
          
           
           
             multi
             sumus
             ,
             unam
             tamen
             gregem
             pascimus
             .
          
           As
           also
           that
           there
           is
           
             Episcopatus
             unus
             ▪
             &
             Ecclesia
             una
             in
             toto
             mundo
             .
          
        
         
           Hence
           also
           may
           appear
           an
           answer
           to
           divers
           arguments
           ,
           the
           chief
           whereof
           we
           shall
           run
           through
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             If
             by
             baptism
             we
             are
             not
             admitted
             into
             one
             particular
             Church
             ,
             but
             into
             the
             whole
             Catholick
             visible
             Church
             ,
          
           1
           Cor.
           12.
           13.
           
             then
             there
             is
             such
             a
             Catholick
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Baptism
           admitteth
           us
           into
           the
           whole
           mysticall
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           whether
           visible
           or
           invisible
           of
           all
           ages
           :
           But
           this
           is
           not
           a
           Catholick
           Politicall
           body
           ,
           of
           which
           we
           speak
           ;
           for
           then
           every
           baptized
           person
           should
           be
           a
           member
           of
           every
           particular
           Church
           ,
           and
           have
           an
           Oa●e
           in
           every
           boat
           ,
           in
           electing
           Officers
           ,
           admitting
           members
           ,
           censuring
           offenders
           ,
           &c.
           which
           Mr.
           Ball
           will
           not
           grant
           ,
           and
           indeed
           would
           bring
           in
           endlesse
           confusion
           into
           the
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           .
           Besides
           ,
           no
           man
           can
           be
           a
           member
           of
           any
           combined
           society
           without
           their
           consent
           ,
           for
           otherwise
           so
           many
           may
           croud
           into
           the
           Church
           because
           baptized
           ,
           as
           shall
           overthrow
           the
           edification
           thereof
           ,
           and
           that
           against
           the
           consent
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           all
           the
           Officers
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             2.
             
          
           
             When
             any
             scandalous
             person
             is
             delivered
             to
             Satan
             ,
             he
             is
             cast
             out
             of
             the
             whole
             Catholick
             church
             ,
          
           Ergo
           ,
           
             he
             was
             a
             member
             of
             the
             whole
             Catholick
             Church
             ,
             for
             be
             cannot
             be
             cast
             out
             who
             was
             never
             within
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Some
           answer
           that
           he
           is
           cast
           out
           of
           all
           onely
           consequenter
           ,
           by
           reason
           of
           communion
           of
           Churches
           ;
           neither
           doe
           we
           see
           that
           this
           is
           taken
           away
           by
           saying
           ,
           that
           ,
           As
           when
           the
           left
           hand
           cutteth
           off
           a
           finger
           of
           the
           right
           hand
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           the
           left
           hand
           onely
           that
           cuts
           it
           off
           ,
           but
           the
           whole
           man
           ,
           deliberate
           reason
           and
           will
           consenting
           :
           For
           if
           this
           similitude
           would
           suit
           ,
           then
           the
           whole
           Catholick
           church
           must
           be
           called
           to
           consult
           and
           consent
           antecedenter
           ,
           before
           a
           particular
           Church
           can
           cut
           off
           any
           member
           ,
           which
           ordinarily
           is
           impossible
           to
           be
           attain'd
           .
        
         
           2
           But
           further
           ▪
           according
           to
           our
           former
           principles
           laid
           down
           ,
           we
           say
           he
           that
           is
           justly
           cast
           out
           of
           one
           Church
           ,
           he
           is
           morally
           excommunicated
           out
           of
           all
           ,
           but
           not
           politically
           and
           formally
           :
           For
           to
           excommunicate
           politically
           and
           formally
           ,
           is
           by
           vertue
           of
           a
           superior
           authority
           next
           under
           Christ
           ;
           so
           that
           what
           is
           bound
           by
           them
           ,
           is
           bound
           in
           heaven
           .
           In
           which
           act
           the
           Minister
           doth
           not
           
           onely
           bind
           the
           person
           ,
           but
           also
           by
           vertue
           of
           his
           ▪
           Office
           chargeth
           the
           Church
           not
           to
           have
           communion
           with
           him
           .
           But
           we
           doe
           not
           think
           that
           our
           Brethren
           will
           say
           that
           one
           Church
           putteth
           forth
           such
           an
           act
           of
           superior
           authority
           binding
           or
           charging
           all
           Churches
           politicè
           and
           judicialitèr
           not
           to
           have
           communion
           with
           him
           ;
           for
           so
           one
           Church
           should
           exercise
           jurisdiction
           overall
           Churches
           ,
           and
           that
           without
           their
           actuall
           approbation
           ,
           for
           ,
           
             quod
             spectat
             ad
             omnes
             ,
             debet
             ab
             omnibus
             approbari
             .
          
        
         
           If
           it
           be
           said
           ,
           
             That
             a
             particular
             Church
             doth
             excommunicate
             by
             an
             intrinsecall
             power
             not
             onely
             in
             it self
             ,
             but
             intrinsecall
             in
             the
             whole
             body
             ;
             the
             question
             will
             be
             ,
             What
             is
             that
             intrinsecall
             power
             ?
             Is
             it
             naturall
             or
             voluntary
             ?
          
        
         
           To
           say
           it
           is
           naturall
           ,
           were
           too
           absurd
           ;
           if
           voluntary
           ,
           then
           neither
           Congregations
           ,
           Classes
           ,
           Provinces
           ,
           Nations
           ,
           have
           power
           to
           excommunicate
           without
           the
           praevious
           consent
           of
           the
           whole
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           which
           must
           voluntarily
           concurr
           thereunto
           .
           And
           if
           the
           Catholick
           Presbytery
           (
           as
           is
           said
           )
           have
           no
           next
           ,
           but
           a
           a
           remote
           power
           of
           excommunication
           ,
           and
           this
           remote
           power
           bee
           extraordinary
           ,
           or
           
             raro
             contingens
          
           ,
           or
           
             almost
             never
          
           ,
           then
           the
           ordinary
           power
           of
           excommunication
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           enough
           for
           us
           )
           is
           not
           from
           an
           intrinsecall
           power
           of
           the
           Church
           catholick
           .
           On
           the
           other
           side
           (
           if
           it
           be
           said
           )
           this
           power
           is
           in
           the
           whole
           ,
           but
           not
           derived
           from
           the
           whole
           to
           the
           parts
           ,
           as
           the
           power
           of
           seeing
           is
           first
           in
           the
           man
           ,
           then
           in
           the
           eye
           ,
           yet
           not
           derived
           from
           hands
           ,
           leggs
           ,
           shoulders
           ,
           &c.
           and
           as
           the
           great
           body
           of
           the
           Sunn
           hath
           intrinsecall
           light
           in
           every
           part
           ,
           not
           by
           derivation
           from
           one
           part
           to
           another
           ;
           so
           this
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           is
           from
           Christ
           the
           Head
           to
           all
           the
           integral
           parts
           in
           points
           that
           severally
           concern
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           if
           this
           be
           so
           ,
           then
           every
           particular
           Congregation
           receives
           its
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           ,
           not
           by
           derivation
           from
           any
           Presbytery
           ,
           or
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           and
           is
           in
           that
           respect
           Independent
           .
           Neither
           also
           can
           Congregations
           derive
           the
           power
           seated
           in
           them
           to
           Presbyteries
           ,
           nor
           any
           greater
           bodies
           take
           it
           from
           them
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           though
           we
           acknowledge
           this
           intrinsecall
           power
           of
           excommunication
           in
           particular
           Congregations
           ,
           as
           being
           there
           properly
           seated
           by
           Christ
           ;
           yet
           that
           there
           are
           any
           such
           politicall
           Churches
           ,
           Classicall
           ,
           Provinciall
           ,
           Nationall
           ,
           or
           Catholick
           ,
           that
           have
           any
           such
           intrinsecall
           power
           as
           is
           in
           the
           Sunn
           ,
           this
           is
           not
           yet
           
           proved
           to
           our
           understanding
           .
           We
           deny
           not
           the
           use
           of
           lesser
           and
           greater
           Synods
           ,
           nor
           of
           such
           Doctrinall
           power
           as
           the
           pattern
           Acts
           15.
           holdeth
           forth
           ,
           and
           which
           is
           all
           that
           Learned
           *
           Mr.
           Rutherford
           conceives
           to
           belong
           to
           a
           generall
           Councell
           ;
           for
           thus
           he
           saith
           ,
           
             Verily
             ,
             I
             professe
             I
             cannot
             see
             what
             power
             of
             jurisdiction
             to
             censure
             scandalls
             can
             be
             in
             a
             generall
             Councell
             ,
             there
             may
             be
             some
             me●●
             Doctrinall
             power
             in
             such
             a
             Councell
             ,
             if
             such
             could
             be
             had
             ,
             and
             that
             is
             all
             .
          
           And
           how
           a
           Nationall
           ,
           Provinciall
           ,
           or
           Classicall
           Synod
           being
           lesser
           parts
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           can
           put
           forth
           such
           acts
           as
           the
           whole
           cannot
           do
           ,
           
             ipsi
             viderint
          
           .
           'T
           is
           true
           ,
           a
           particular
           Church
           may
           formally
           cast
           out
           a
           scandalous
           member
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           ,
           Matth.
           18.
           yet
           the
           argument
           from
           proportion
           will
           not
           hold
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           power
           of
           excommunication
           in
           greater
           assemblies
           against
           any
           particular
           Church
           offending
           ,
           (
           though
           other
           means
           appointed
           by
           Christ
           we
           deny
           not
           )
           for
           if
           excommunication
           casteth
           out
           an
           offender
           out
           of
           all
           Churches
           ,
           then
           such
           a
           particular
           Church
           cannot
           be
           excommunicated
           ,
           except
           it
           could
           be
           cast
           out
           of
           it self
           ,
           though
           it
           may
           be
           deprived
           of
           the
           communion
           of
           other
           Churches
           .
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           if
           it
           be
           no
           sin
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           said
           )
           but
           a
           crosse
           ,
           that
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           cannot
           meet
           to
           put
           forth
           its
           supposed
           intrinsecall
           power
           ,
           then
           let
           the
           particular
           Churches
           enjoy
           that
           power
           till
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           can
           meet
           .
           2
           It
           seems
           to
           us
           very
           strange
           that
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           should
           institute
           such
           a
           supreme
           power
           in
           a
           Catholick
           Body
           ,
           which
           (
           as
           is
           said
           )
           
             de
             jure
          
           ,
           should
           be
           till
           the
           comming
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           yet
           should
           be
           interrupted
           by
           the
           sin
           of
           man
           so
           many
           ages
           ,
           and
           which
           (
           for
           ought
           appeares
           )
           never
           orderly
           met
           to
           this
           day
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             3.
             
          
           
             If
             all
             Pastors
             be
             Pastors
             of
             the
             Catholick
             Church
             ,
             then
             there
             is
             such
             a
             Catholick
             Church
             ;
             but
             all
             Pastors
             are
             Pastors
             of
             the
             Catholick
             Church
             :
             Ergo.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           it
           be
           meant
           thus
           ,
           that
           they
           are
           Pastors
           of
           some
           particular
           part
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           in
           that
           respect
           in
           the
           whole
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           the
           good
           of
           every
           part
           redounding
           to
           the
           good
           of
           the
           whole
           ;
           yea
           ,
           if
           some
           Pastorall
           care
           also
           be
           intended
           towards
           other
           Churches
           ,
           and
           to
           fetch
           in
           such
           as
           are
           yet
           not
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           we
           grant
           all
           this
           according
           to
           the
           meaning
           of
           that
           place
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           12.
           28.
           formerly
           opened
           by
           us
           .
        
         
           But
           if
           this
           Argument
           intend
           that
           they
           are
           Pastors
           of
           the
           Catholick
           Body
           as
           of
           One
           Politicall
           Church
           ,
           then
           we
           deny
           the
           Assumption
           upon
           this
           ground
           ;
           because
           a
           Pastorall
           Office
           consists
           properly
           
           in
           having
           a
           charge
           and
           power
           over
           those
           to
           whom
           he
           is
           a
           Pastor
           ,
           Act.
           20.
           28.
           but
           he
           hath
           no
           charge
           of
           the
           whole
           ;
           for
           if
           so
           ,
           he
           must
           give
           account
           to
           Christ
           of
           the
           whole
           ;
           neither
           hath
           he
           power
           over
           such
           a
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           being
           never
           chosen
           by
           it
           ,
           nor
           it
           subjecting
           to
           him
           .
           If
           it
           be
           said
           ,
           such
           are
           made
           Pastors
           by
           Ordination
           of
           the
           Presbyters
           ,
           not
           the
           election
           of
           the
           people
           who
           onely
           appropriate
           him
           to
           themselves
           ,
           who
           is
           a
           Pastor
           of
           the
           whole
           Church
           :
           then
           he
           is
           either
           a
           Catholick
           Pastor
           that
           hath
           power
           to
           intermeddle
           in
           all
           Churches
           ,
           as
           the
           Apostles
           had
           ,
           which
           we
           think
           none
           will
           yeeld
           them
           ;
           or
           else
           they
           are
           Pastors
           onely
           in
           name
           ,
           without
           power
           ,
           which
           is
           absurd
           .
           Nor
           doth
           the
           similitude
           of
           a
           Physitian
           made
           Doctor
           of
           Physick
           at
           large
           by
           a
           Colledge
           of
           Physitians
           ,
           helpe
           in
           this
           case
           .
           For
           it
           supp●seth
           him
           to
           be
           made
           such
           a
           Doctor
           before
           he
           be
           elected
           by
           any
           people
           to
           exercise
           this
           faculty
           ;
           which
           applyed
           to
           this
           case
           of
           a
           Pastor
           ,
           as
           having
           Ordination
           to
           make
           him
           a
           Pastor
           at
           large
           ,
           before
           election
           to
           this
           or
           that
           people
           ,
           is
           utterly
           against
           all
           examples
           of
           Scripture
           ,
           as
           Acts
           1.
           
           &
           6.
           
           &
           14
           ,
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             4.
             
          
           
             That
             which
             belongeth
             to
             a
             little
             part
             of
             a
             similar
             body
             (
             quâ
             talis
             )
             belongs
             to
             a
             greater
             part
             much
             more
             ;
             and
             therefore
             if
             the
             immediate
             exercise
             of
             the
             Keys
             belong
             to
             a
             single
             congregation
             ,
             then
             much
             more
             to
             the
             whole
             ,
             and
             to
             any
             greater
             part
             of
             the
             whole
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Such
           as
           say
           that
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           is
           a
           similar
           Body
           ,
           had
           need
           explicate
           themselves
           .
           For
           to
           speak
           properly
           and
           strictly
           ,
           by
           this
           rule
           every
           particular
           visible
           beleever
           being
           a
           part
           of
           the
           whole
           as
           a
           
             totum
             aggregativum
          
           ,
           must
           have
           
             nomen
             &
             naturam
             totius
          
           ,
           and
           so
           every
           beleever
           is
           a
           Church
           ;
           or
           if
           they
           so
           divide
           this
           Catholick
           similar
           body
           ,
           as
           to
           make
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           that
           can
           joyn
           in
           Gods
           ordinances
           ,
           the
           
             minimum
             quod
             sic
          
           ;
           then
           particular
           visible
           beleevers
           considered
           as
           existing
           out
           of
           these
           Congregations
           cannot
           be
           members
           formally
           of
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           .
        
         
           2
           We
           acknowledge
           the
           Catholick
           church
           considered
           as
           visible
           and
           invisible
           ,
           is
           one
           spirituall
           or
           mysticall
           body
           ,
           yet
           this
           Catholick
           body
           is
           under
           no
           Catholick
           policy
           ;
           but
           onely
           in
           the
           severall
           parts
           of
           it
           ,
           (
           as
           hath
           been
           proved
           before
           )
           and
           in
           this
           respect
           the
           Church
           ,
           which
           is
           spiritually
           one
           body
           ,
           is
           politicè
           many
           bodies
           :
           so
           that
           the
           parts
           of
           this
           spirituall
           to●um
           are
           not
           distinct
           bodies
           
             spirituali
             relatione
          
           ,
           (
           for
           then
           every
           company
           of
           women
           are
           a
           Church
           body
           )
           but
           
             politicâ
             combinatione
          
           ;
           and
           hence
           though
           the
           Catholick
           church
           be
           one
           similar
           body
           spiritually
           ,
           (
           due
           cautions
           
           and
           interpretations
           observed
           )
           yet
           it
           is
           not
           one
           similar
           Body
           politically
           ;
           and
           hence
           every
           society
           of
           beleevers
           is
           not
           a
           Church
           .
           Hence
           though
           it
           be
           true
           ,
           that
           what
           belongs
           to
           a
           part
           of
           a
           similar
           body
           ,
           as
           a
           part
           ,
           belongeth
           much
           more
           to
           the
           whole
           ;
           and
           that
           therefore
           what
           belongs
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           belongs
           much
           more
           to
           the
           whole
           :
           It
           is
           true
           in
           this
           sense
           ,
           viz.
           what
           belongs
           to
           the
           part
           of
           the
           whole
           as
           spirituall
           ,
           and
           so
           participates
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           belongs
           much
           more
           to
           the
           whole
           ,
           because
           the
           whole
           is
           spirituall
           :
           yet
           what
           belongs
           to
           the
           part
           as
           politicall
           ,
           doth
           not
           much
           more
           belong
           to
           the
           whole
           ,
           because
           the
           whole
           is
           not
           politicall
           :
           
             Exempli
             gratiâ
          
           ,
           consider
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           as
           a
           number
           redeemed
           ,
           called
           to
           Christ
           ,
           espoused
           to
           him
           ,
           this
           much
           more
           belongs
           to
           the
           whole
           ;
           and
           so
           if
           any
           priviledge
           belong
           to
           them
           as
           such
           ,
           much
           more
           to
           the
           whole
           .
           Yet
           consider
           a
           Church
           as
           a
           combined
           Body
           ,
           so
           what
           belongs
           to
           this
           part
           ,
           belongs
           not
           to
           the
           whole
           .
           For
           it
           belongs
           to
           the
           part
           to
           elect
           and
           enjoy
           constantly
           Pastors
           over
           it
           ,
           but
           this
           doth
           not
           belong
           to
           the
           whole
           as
           a
           totum
           .
           The
           Catholick
           mysticall
           Church
           is
           indeed
           the
           
             prima
             materia
          
           ,
           out
           of
           which
           politicall
           Churches
           by
           their
           combination
           are
           formed
           ;
           but
           it
           is
           no
           first
           formed
           politicall
           similar
           Church
           ,
           whence
           every
           particular
           Church
           immediately
           participates
           of
           the
           nature
           of
           that
           whole
           ,
           having
           in
           it
           
             partem
             talis
             materiae
             &
             partem
             formae
             .
          
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             5.
             
          
           
             If
             there
             be
             Church
             communion
             between
             all
             Churches
             ,
             then
             there
             is
             one
             Catholick
             Church
             :
             but
             there
             is
             Church
             communion
             of
             all
             Churches
             in
             hearing
             ,
             receiving
             Sacraments
             ,
             exhorting
             one
             another
             ,
             praying
             one
             for
             another
             ,
             &c.
          
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           deny
           the
           consequence
           ;
           for
           there
           may
           be
           a
           fraternall
           ,
           Ecclesiasticall
           communion
           ,
           not
           onely
           internally
           ,
           but
           externally
           ,
           without
           such
           an
           union
           as
           makes
           one
           politicall
           combined
           Body
           ,
           such
           as
           here
           we
           dispute
           of
           ;
           as
           ,
           two
           or
           three
           Congregations
           may
           have
           communion
           together
           ,
           and
           yet
           not
           be
           one
           politicall
           Body
           :
           Twenty
           synagogues
           might
           have
           communion
           together
           in
           the
           Jewish
           policy
           ,
           and
           yet
           were
           not
           one
           politicall
           Body
           :
           so
           the
           Churches
           of
           Galatia
           might
           have
           communion
           together
           ,
           yet
           were
           distinct
           Churches
           ,
           not
           one
           Church
           ;
           as
           also
           ,
           the
           Churches
           of
           
             New
             England
          
           have
           sweet
           and
           blessed
           communion
           ,
           yet
           are
           distinct
           .
           And
           though
           the
           Churches
           of
           Galatia
           were
           called
           a
           whole
           lump
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           objected
           )
           yet
           were
           they
           thus
           by
           politicall
           combination
           ;
           or
           as
           Dr.
           Downam
           (
           to
           mould
           up
           a
           Diocesan
           Church
           )
           compares
           the
           
           first
           Church
           to
           a
           great
           lump
           of
           dough
           ,
           or
           batch
           of
           bread
           ,
           out
           of
           which
           particular
           Churches
           were
           formed
           into
           many
           loaves
           ;
           or
           not
           rather
           called
           a
           lump
           by
           spirituall
           union
           and
           relation
           ,
           common
           profession
           ,
           and
           fraternall
           communion
           ,
           being
           all
           the
           same
           Countrey-men
           ;
           so
           also
           the
           Apostles
           had
           Church
           communion
           ,
           yet
           were
           not
           a
           politicall
           body
           .
           Kingdoms
           so
           may
           have
           civil
           communion
           and
           commerce
           ,
           yet
           not
           be
           one
           Kingdom
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             6.
             
          
           
             If
             the
             Keys
             be
             given
             to
             a
             particular
             Church
             under
             the
             notion
             of
             the
             Spouse
             of
             Christ
             ,
             a
             flock
             of
             redeemed
             ones
             ,
             &c.
             and
             then
             much
             more
             to
             the
             Catholick
             visible
             Church
             ,
             which
             is
             the
             Spouse
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             flock
             of
             redeemed
             ones
             primarily
             ,
             and
             to
             a
             particular
             Church
             onely
             secondarily
             ;
             but
             the
             first
             is
             affirmed
             by
             such
             as
             deny
             such
             a
             Catholick
             Church
             :
          
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           It
           is
           true
           ,
           the
           notion
           of
           a
           flock
           of
           redeemed
           ones
           of
           the
           Body
           ,
           and
           Spouse
           of
           Christ
           ,
           Kingdom
           ,
           House
           ,
           &c.
           doe
           agree
           primarily
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           not
           of
           this
           ,
           but
           of
           all
           ages
           ,
           and
           secondarily
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           this
           age
           ,
           
             Colos
             .
             1.
             18.
             
             Ephes
             .
          
           5.
           25
           ,
           26.
           and
           2.
           19.
           
        
         
           2
           The
           Church
           which
           is
           the
           Body
           of
           Christ
           existing
           in
           this
           age
           ,
           the
           Keys
           are
           given
           to
           it
           primarily
           ,
           in
           comparison
           of
           particular
           Churches
           coexisting
           with
           it
           ,
           as
           to
           the
           chief
           object
           and
           end
           ;
           but
           not
           to
           it
           as
           a
           politicall
           Body
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           dispensation
           thereof
           :
           for
           (
           as
           we
           have
           oft
           said
           )
           if
           in
           respect
           of
           Politicall
           dispensation
           the
           Keys
           belong
           firstly
           to
           the
           Body
           of
           Christ
           as
           his
           Spouse
           and
           redeemed
           ones
           ;
           then
           the
           Church
           invisible
           as
           invisible
           ,
           rather
           then
           visible
           ,
           must
           have
           the
           dispensation
           of
           the
           Keys
           primarily
           .
        
         
           3
           It
           is
           not
           said
           ,
           that
           the
           Keys
           are
           immediately
           given
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           abstractly
           ,
           as
           a
           number
           of
           redeemed
           ,
           but
           as
           consociated
           and
           politically
           combined
           :
           And
           in
           this
           respect
           that
           may
           be
           attributed
           to
           the
           part
           ,
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           of
           redeemed
           ones
           ,
           which
           cannot
           be
           attributed
           to
           the
           whole
           .
           
             Ex.
             gr
          
           .
           such
           a
           Congregation
           is
           combined
           ,
           so
           is
           not
           the
           whole
           ,
           nor
           can
           be
           ;
           such
           a
           Church
           may
           choose
           a
           Pastor
           over
           it
           ,
           but
           so
           cannot
           the
           whole
           ;
           so
           a
           man
           may
           tell
           the
           particular
           Church
           ,
           who
           may
           convene
           together
           ,
           not
           so
           the
           whole
           .
        
         
           Thus
           far
           (
           through
           the
           helpe
           of
           Christ
           )
           we
           have
           endevoured
           to
           clear
           the
           first
           Point
           propounded
           concerning
           a
           Catholick
           instituted
           Church
           .
           We
           come
           now
           to
           prove
           the
           second
           Point
           ,
           viz.
           That
           Jesus
           Christ
           hath
           instituted
           in
           the
           Gospel
           a
           particular
           Church
           
           of
           one
           Congregation
           ,
           in
           which
           ,
           and
           unto
           which
           the
           actuall
           and
           immediate
           dispensation
           and
           participation
           of
           all
           instituted
           Worship
           doe
           regularly
           and
           ordinarily
           belong
           .
        
         
           And
           here
           we
           shall
           shew
           :
           1
           What
           such
           a
           particular
           Church
           is
           .
           2
           How
           the
           dispensation
           of
           Church
           power
           and
           priviledge
           do
           belong
           unto
           it
           .
           For
           the
           first
           ,
           we
           shall
           declare
           our selves
           in
           these
           Five
           Propositions
           .
        
         
           1
           It
           must
           be
           a
           visible
           Society
           ,
           for
           One
           man
           cannot
           make
           a
           Church
           ,
           nor
           can
           many
           visible
           beleevers
           living
           severally
           ,
           without
           society
           in
           severall
           Nations
           make
           One
           Church
           .
        
         
           2
           It
           's
           not
           every
           Society
           of
           visible
           Professors
           that
           doe
           make
           a
           Church
           ,
           for
           then
           every
           family
           of
           such
           Professors
           are
           a
           Church
           :
           Then
           two
           or
           three
           (
           which
           our
           Brethren
           so
           much
           condemn
           )
           are
           a
           Church
           ;
           and
           then
           a
           Society
           of
           Women
           professing
           the
           truth
           may
           be
           a
           Politicall
           Church
           ;
           then
           many
           members
           of
           severall
           Churches
           met
           to
           hear
           a
           Sermon
           ,
           or
           any
           like
           occasion
           ,
           make
           a
           Church
           ;
           then
           a
           number
           of
           Professors
           may
           constitute
           a
           Diocesan
           Church
           ,
           or
           any
           like
           form
           ;
           for
           out
           of
           this
           block
           ,
           That
           any
           number
           of
           beleevers
           made
           a
           Church
           ,
           Dr.
           Downam
           hewed
           out
           his
           Diocesan
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           made
           a
           fit
           seat
           for
           his
           Diocesan
           Mercury
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           then
           particular
           Churches
           should
           have
           no
           more
           any
           set
           Form
           prescribed
           ,
           then
           Civill
           government
           ,
           which
           is
           as
           variable
           as
           humane
           wisdome
           sees
           meet
           ,
           for
           hence
           a
           particular
           Church
           may
           be
           melted
           into
           any
           form
           or
           mould
           of
           civil
           Society
           ;
           for
           imagine
           a
           number
           of
           professing
           beleevers
           ,
           cohabiting
           either
           in
           a
           City
           ,
           Hundred
           ,
           Wapentake
           ,
           Shire
           ,
           Province
           ,
           Nation
           ,
           Empire
           ,
           &c.
           there
           shall
           then
           be
           so
           many
           forms
           of
           Churches
           contrary
           to
           the
           principles
           and
           unanswerable
           arguments
           of
           our
           best
           Reformers
           ,
           who
           accounted
           it
           a
           great
           absurdity
           that
           the
           heavenly
           Kingdome
           of
           Christ
           should
           be
           moulded
           and
           framed
           according
           to
           the
           weaknesse
           of
           humane
           wisdome
           and
           policy
           .
        
         
           3
           It
           must
           therefore
           be
           a
           Society
           combined
           ,
           and
           that
           by
           a
           Covenant
           explicite
           or
           implicite
           ,
           for
           it
           must
           be
           such
           a
           combined
           Society
           where
           the
           whole
           have
           power
           over
           its
           members
           ;
           now
           whatever
           power
           one
           hath
           over
           another
           ,
           if
           it
           be
           not
           by
           way
           of
           conquest
           or
           naturall
           relation
           ,
           (
           as
           the
           father
           over
           the
           childe
           )
           it
           is
           by
           covenant
           ,
           as
           husband
           and
           wife
           ,
           Master
           and
           servant
           ,
           Prince
           and
           people
           ;
           other
           powers
           are
           but
           usurpations
           :
           it
           is
           noted
           as
           a
           prophane
           speech
           in
           Brennus
           ,
           who
           professed
           he
           knew
           no
           other
           rule
           of
           Justice
           ,
           then
           for
           the
           greater
           to
           subdue
           the
           lesse
           .
           Again
           ,
           it
           is
           
           such
           a
           Society
           as
           hath
           an
           ordinate
           power
           ,
           to
           subject
           it self
           to
           Officers
           ,
           by
           electing
           of
           them
           to
           administer
           ordinances
           amongst
           them
           ;
           but
           this
           is
           onely
           a
           federall
           Society
           .
        
         
           Again
           ,
           it
           is
           such
           a
           Society
           ,
           to
           the
           making
           up
           of
           which
           is
           required
           something
           more
           then
           faith
           ,
           
             Acts
             5.
             14.
             
             Beleevers
             were
             added
             to
             the
             Lord
             ,
          
           or
           to
           his
           Church
           ;
           so
           that
           they
           were
           first
           beleevers
           ,
           before
           they
           were
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           ;
           for
           there
           may
           be
           a
           number
           of
           beleevers
           converted
           at
           one
           Sermon
           ,
           and
           immediately
           scattered
           into
           many
           Towns
           or
           Countreys
           :
           Now
           ,
           if
           faith
           professed
           alone
           ,
           makes
           not
           a
           Church
           ,
           but
           somewhat
           more
           is
           required
           ,
           what
           can
           that
           be
           but
           foederall
           combination
           ?
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           that
           ,
           the
           dissolution
           whereof
           doth
           unchurch
           a
           people
           ,
           doth
           constitute
           a
           Church
           :
           but
           breaking
           the
           combination
           dissolves
           the
           Church
           ,
           whether
           by
           consent
           ,
           schism
           ,
           or
           when
           God
           himself
           removes
           the
           candlestick
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           4
           Though
           a
           Church
           be
           such
           by
           combining
           ,
           and
           so
           subjecting
           themselves
           to
           the
           power
           of
           others
           ,
           yet
           it
           must
           not
           be
           herein
           illimited
           ,
           but
           according
           to
           the
           form
           and
           mould
           expressed
           in
           the
           Word
           ;
           for
           if
           they
           have
           this
           power
           to
           combine
           as
           many
           ,
           and
           as
           largely
           as
           they
           will
           ,
           then
           a
           Diocese
           ,
           Province
           ,
           Nation
           ,
           may
           combine
           ,
           and
           so
           put
           themselves
           under
           the
           power
           of
           a
           Diocesan
           ,
           Provinciall
           ,
           Nationall
           society
           ,
           which
           is
           unlawfull
           ;
           for
           the
           Church
           must
           be
           such
           a
           form
           as
           a
           man
           may
           ordinarily
           bring
           offences
           unto
           it
           ,
           according
           to
           
             Matth.
             18.
             
             Tell
             the
             Church
          
           ;
           but
           that
           cannot
           be
           in
           a
           Diocese
           ,
           much
           lesse
           in
           a
           Province
           or
           Nation
           ,
           where
           the
           Members
           can
           neither
           take
           notice
           of
           the
           offence
           ,
           nor
           ordinarily
           so
           much
           as
           consent
           unto
           any
           censure
           acted
           by
           any
           Officers
           in
           such
           a
           Church
           ;
           nay
           ,
           further
           ,
           if
           their
           power
           be
           unlimited
           ,
           they
           may
           choose
           a
           Diocesan
           Pastor
           ,
           one
           ,
           or
           many
           to
           feed
           all
           ,
           or
           one
           to
           rule
           (
           like
           Beza
           his
           
             Episcopus
             humanus
          
           )
           with
           subjection
           in
           case
           of
           error
           to
           the
           censure
           of
           all
           ;
           nay
           ,
           hence
           we
           see
           not
           ,
           but
           they
           may
           choose
           an
           universall
           Pastor
           ,
           and
           so
           give
           away
           the
           power
           to
           one
           ,
           if
           all
           will
           agree
           .
        
         
           In
           a
           word
           ,
           they
           onely
           may
           combine
           into
           a
           Politicall
           Body
           ,
           where
           the
           whole
           may
           excommunicate
           any
           part
           ;
           but
           this
           cannot
           be
           in
           a
           combination
           of
           many
           Churches
           into
           one
           whole
           ,
           because
           no
           particular
           Church
           is
           capable
           of
           excommunication
           ,
           for
           it
           is
           impossible
           to
           be
           cast
           out
           of
           it self
           ,
           as
           was
           said
           before
           .
        
         
           5
           A
           particular
           Church
           therefore
           must
           be
           such
           a
           Society
           as
           is
           so
           combined
           together
           ,
           that
           it
           may
           ordinarily
           enjoy
           Church
           communion
           ,
           
           to
           exercise
           Church
           power
           ,
           to
           be
           fed
           by
           her
           Officers
           ,
           and
           led
           by
           them
           ;
           hence
           Titus
           was
           to
           set
           Elders
           in
           every
           Church
           ,
           and
           these
           Elders
           were
           such
           as
           could
           ordinarily
           feed
           them
           ,
           by
           preaching
           the
           Word
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           rule
           and
           govern
           them
           .
        
         
           Now
           that
           such
           a
           Congregationall
           Church
           is
           the
           institution
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           appears
           first
           by
           those
           many
           Scriptures
           that
           speak
           of
           the
           Churches
           of
           one
           Countrey
           ,
           and
           in
           small
           compasse
           ,
           as
           severall
           Churches
           ,
           not
           as
           one
           ,
           as
           the
           Churches
           of
           
             Judea
             ,
             Samaria
          
           ,
           and
           
             Galil●e
             ,
             Acts
          
           9.
           the
           Churches
           of
           
             Galatia
             ,
             Gal.
          
           1.
           1.
           yea
           ,
           not
           only
           in
           one
           small
           Countrey
           ,
           but
           in
           Cities
           ,
           or
           near
           unto
           them
           ;
           we
           read
           of
           distinct
           Churches
           ,
           as
           Corinth
           ,
           though
           God
           had
           much
           people
           there
           ,
           yet
           it
           was
           one
           Congregation
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           14.
           33.
           and
           had
           another
           Church
           near
           to
           it
           ,
           
             viz.
             Cenchrea
          
           :
           Also
           Rome
           ,
           whom
           the
           Apostle
           saluting
           ,
           sends
           also
           salutations
           by
           them
           to
           Aquila
           and
           Priscilla
           ,
           with
           the
           Church
           in
           their
           houshold
           ,
           which
           shew
           they
           were
           not
           far
           from
           that
           Church
           of
           Rome
           .
           To
           these
           add
           ,
           that
           Jerusalem
           the
           first
           Church
           that
           was
           constituted
           by
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           whose
           number
           was
           the
           greatest
           of
           any
           that
           we
           read
           of
           ,
           yet
           it
           was
           but
           one
           Congregation
           ,
           as
           is
           evident
           by
           Acts
           1.
           and
           Chap.
           2.
           41
           ,
           42.
           
           What
           is
           objected
           against
           this
           to
           prove
           it
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           was
           answered
           before
           ;
           other
           objections
           against
           this
           ,
           and
           like
           examples
           ,
           shall
           be
           considered
           in
           their
           due
           place
           ,
           as
           we
           meet
           with
           them
           .
        
         
           But
           we
           shall
           not
           need
           to
           say
           much
           ,
           that
           a
           Congregation
           furnished
           with
           its
           Officers
           is
           a
           Church
           according
           to
           the
           institution
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           but
           there
           are
           more
           objections
           against
           the
           compleatnesse
           thereof
           ,
           which
           yet
           is
           proved
           thus
           ,
           That
           Church
           which
           hath
           power
           of
           all
           the
           Keys
           given
           unto
           it
           for
           actuall
           administration
           within
           it self
           ,
           is
           a
           compleat
           Church
           :
           But
           so
           hath
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           Ergo.
           The
           first
           part
           is
           evident
           ;
           because
           where
           all
           the
           Keys
           are
           with
           full
           power
           to
           administer
           the
           same
           ,
           there
           nothing
           is
           wanting
           ;
           the
           Assumption
           is
           proved
           thus
           ,
           If
           all
           those
           Officers
           to
           whom
           is
           given
           the
           authoritative
           power
           of
           exercising
           the
           Keys
           ,
           be
           given
           to
           a
           Congregation
           ;
           then
           all
           the
           Keys
           are
           so
           given
           to
           it
           ,
           but
           so
           it
           is
           ;
           for
           since
           Apostles
           and
           extraordinary
           Officers
           ceased
           ,
           there
           are
           no
           other
           Officers
           but
           Pastors
           ,
           Teachers
           ,
           and
           Rulers
           ,
           called
           sometimes
           Bishops
           ,
           sometimes
           Elders
           :
           but
           these
           Officers
           are
           given
           to
           such
           a
           Church
           ,
           as
           is
           proved
           
             Acts
             14.
             
             Tit.
          
           1.
           4.
           and
           is
           acknowledged
           in
           all
           Reformed
           Churches
           ,
           who
           ordain
           such
           Officers
           in
           particular
           Churches
           of
           one
           Congregation
           :
           Ergo.
           
        
         
         
           
             Object
             .
             1.
             
          
           
             If
             it
             be
             said
             ,
             that
             though
             a
             Congregation
             hath
             such
             Officers
             as
             have
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             ,
             yet
             that
             such
             must
             combine
             with
             others
             in
             way
             of
             co-ordination
             to
             govern
             in
             common
             ,
             and
             so
             to
             be
             helped
             and
             compleated
             by
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           grant
           much
           help
           may
           be
           had
           by
           sister
           Churches
           ,
           and
           consultative
           Presbyteries
           ,
           but
           that
           which
           takes
           away
           the
           exercise
           of
           the
           Keys
           in
           point
           of
           government
           from
           the
           church
           to
           whom
           Christ
           hath
           given
           it
           ,
           doth
           not
           compleat
           it
           ,
           but
           take
           away
           and
           destroy
           the
           power
           and
           liberty
           of
           it
           ;
           for
           though
           the
           Pastor
           of
           a
           congregation
           may
           oft
           consent
           ,
           yet
           the
           major
           part
           of
           the
           Presbytery
           must
           carry
           it
           ,
           whether
           he
           consent
           or
           no
           ,
           and
           therefore
           his
           power
           is
           swallowed
           up
           .
           Besides
           ,
           it
           seems
           to
           us
           a
           mystery
           ,
           that
           every
           Pastor
           ,
           even
           such
           as
           have
           no
           flock
           ,
           should
           be
           Pastors
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           and
           yet
           a
           Pastor
           should
           not
           have
           power
           to
           rule
           in
           his
           own
           flock
           over
           which
           Christ
           hath
           made
           him
           a
           Bishop
           ,
           and
           for
           which
           flock
           he
           must
           give
           account
           unto
           God.
           
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             2.
             
          
           
             It
             cannot
             have
             a
             Synod
             ,
             which
             is
             one
             ordinance
             of
             God
             ,
             therefore
             it
             is
             not
             a
             compleat
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           By
           this
           reason
           a
           Classicall
           church
           is
           not
           compleat
           ,
           because
           it
           cannot
           have
           a
           Nationall
           councell
           ;
           nor
           a
           Nationall
           church
           ,
           because
           it
           cannot
           have
           a
           generall
           councell
           ;
           if
           it
           be
           said
           a
           classis
           have
           all
           ordinary
           meanes
           to
           a
           compleat
           church
           ,
           we
           say
           the
           like
           of
           a
           congregation
           .
        
         
           
             Object
             .
             3.
             
          
           
             Though
             a
             Town
             or
             family
             being
             cast
             alone
             ,
             may
             govern
             as
             a
             compleat
             body
             ;
             yet
             when
             it
             stands
             in
             a
             common-wealth
             ,
             as
             in
          
           England
           ,
           
             it
             may
             not
             be
             so
             independent
             ,
             but
             submit
             to
             combinations
             :
             so
             here
             when
             a
             particular
             Congregation
             is
             alone
             ,
             it
             may
             govern
             as
             compleat
             ;
             not
             so
             when
             amongst
             other
             Churches
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           such
           a
           Town
           or
           family
           have
           compleat
           power
           ,
           and
           all
           civill
           Officers
           within
           it self
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           bound
           to
           submit
           to
           such
           combinations
           in
           a
           common-wealth
           ,
           except
           it
           be
           under
           a
           superior
           power
           that
           can
           command
           the
           same
           .
           As
           Abraham
           having
           a
           compleat
           government
           in
           his
           family
           was
           not
           bound
           to
           combine
           with
           the
           governments
           he
           came
           amongst
           ,
           neither
           did
           he
           ;
           in
           prudence
           he
           ioyned
           in
           a
           league
           of
           amity
           and
           for
           mutual
           help
           with
           
             Aner
             ,
             &c.
          
           but
           not
           to
           submit
           to
           their
           government
           :
           so
           here
           a
           Church
           having
           compleat
           Officers
           is
           not
           bound
           to
           submit
           to
           such
           combinations
           ,
           except
           it
           be
           proved
           that
           any
           superior
           power
           of
           other
           churches
           can
           command
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           though
           a
           family
           no●
           having
           compleat
           civill
           government
           
           in
           it self
           must
           combine
           where
           it
           stands
           in
           a
           commonwealth
           ,
           yet
           never
           to
           yeeld
           up
           its
           family-government
           over
           wife
           ,
           children
           and
           servants
           to
           rule
           them
           in
           common
           with
           other
           Masters
           of
           families
           ,
           no
           civill
           prudence
           or
           morall
           rule
           taught
           men
           ever
           so
           to
           practise
           ;
           and
           therefore
           why
           in
           such
           a
           case
           should
           a
           Church
           give
           up
           the
           government
           of
           it self
           to
           Pastors
           of
           many
           Churches
           to
           rule
           it
           in
           common
           ,
           and
           not
           rather
           as
           a
           Classis
           is
           over-awed
           by
           the
           Provinciall
           onely
           in
           common
           things
           ;
           so
           in
           congregations
           Pastors
           should
           govern
           their
           flocks
           ,
           and
           onely
           in
           things
           common
           be
           under
           a
           Presbytery
           .
           If
           it
           be
           said
           ,
           
             That
             the
             Classis
             do
             act
             in
             such
             things
             only
             ;
             for
             in
             excommunication
             of
             an
             offender
             ,
             the
             offence
             is
             common
             to
             all
             .
          
           We
           answer
           ,
           if
           so
           ,
           then
           why
           should
           not
           the
           Provinciall
           and
           Nationall
           Churches
           by
           this
           reason
           assume
           all
           to
           themselves
           from
           the
           Classis
           ?
           for
           the
           offence
           of
           one
           is
           common
           to
           all
           :
           As
           also
           upon
           this
           ground
           ,
           why
           should
           not
           the
           Classis
           admit
           all
           the
           members
           of
           every
           Congregation
           under
           them
           ?
           for
           this
           also
           may
           concern
           them
           all
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           here
           is
           a
           great
           difference
           ,
           for
           civill
           Societies
           are
           left
           to
           civill
           prudence
           ,
           and
           may
           give
           up
           themselves
           to
           many
           forms
           of
           government
           :
           but
           Churches
           are
           bound
           to
           use
           and
           maintain
           such
           order
           of
           government
           as
           Christ
           hath
           set
           in
           the
           church
           ,
           and
           not
           to
           give
           it
           up
           to
           many
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           to
           one
           :
           If
           testimonies
           were
           needfull
           ,
           we
           might
           produce
           
             Zanchi
             ,
             Zwinglius
             ,
             Parker
             ,
             Baines
             ,
          
           and
           others
           ,
           who
           are
           fully
           with
           us
           in
           this
           doctrine
           of
           a
           particular
           church
           ;
           yea
           ,
           Dr.
           Downam
           himself
           confesseth
           ;
           that
           the
           most
           of
           the
           churches
           in
           the
           time
           of
           the
           Apostle
           Paul
           did
           not
           exceed
           the
           proportion
           of
           a
           populous
           congregation
           ;
           and
           this
           confession
           puts
           us
           in
           minde
           of
           a
           witty
           passage
           of
           his
           Refuter
           ,
           or
           his
           Epistoler
           ,
           who
           against
           the
           Bishops
           maintains
           the
           doctrine
           of
           congregationall
           churches
           with
           us
           ;
           with
           whose
           expressions
           ,
           (
           for
           the
           recreation
           of
           our selves
           and
           the
           Reader
           )
           we
           will
           conclude
           :
           
             The
             Papist
          
           ,
           (
           saith
           he
           )
           
             he
             tels
             us
             (
             just
             as
             the
             Organs
             goe
             at
          
           Rome
           )
           
             that
             the
             extent
             of
             a
             Bishops
             jurisdiction
             is
             not
             limited
             but
             by
             the
             Popes
             appointment
             ,
             his
             power
             of
             it self
             indifferently
             reaching
             over
             all
             the
             world
             .
             Our
             Prelatists
             would
             perswade
             us
             (
             to
             the
             tune
             of
             Canterbury
             )
             that
             neither
             church
             nor
             Bishop
             hath
             his
             bounds
             determined
             by
             the
             Pope
             ,
             nor
             yet
             by
             Christ
             in
             the
             Scriptures
             ,
             but
             left
             to
             the
             pleasure
             of
             Princes
             ,
             to
             be
             cast
             into
             one
             mould
             with
             the
             Civill
             State.
             Now
             the
             plain
             Christian
             finding
             nothing
             but
             humane
             uncertainties
             in
             either
             of
             these
             devises
             ,
             be
             contenteth
             himself
             with
             plain
             song
             ,
             and
             knowing
             that
             Christ
             hath
             appointed
             Christians
             to
          
           
           
             gather
             themselves
             into
             such
             Societies
             as
             may
             assemble
             themselves
             together
             for
             the
             worship
             of
             God
             ,
             and
             that
             unto
             such
             he
             hath
             given
             their
             peculiar
             Pastors
             ;
             he
             ,
             I
             say
             ,
             in
             his
             simplicity
             calleth
             ▪
             these
             Assemblies
             ,
             the
             Churches
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             these
             Pastors
             ,
             his
             Bishops
             .
          
        
         
           Thus
           much
           concerning
           the
           nature
           of
           a
           particular
           church
           ,
           and
           that
           it
           is
           instituted
           in
           the
           Gospel
           .
        
         
           Now
           in
           the
           second
           place
           wee
           are
           to
           shew
           how
           church
           government
           and
           Ordinances
           are
           given
           to
           it
           as
           to
           the
           proper
           subject
           of
           the
           same
           .
           Where
           we
           shall
           propound
           these
           Theses
           for
           explication
           of
           our selves
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           Though
           Pastourship
           considered
           as
           an
           office
           in
           relation
           to
           a
           people
           to
           feed
           them
           anthoritatively
           ,
           be
           one
           of
           these
           Ordinances
           given
           to
           a
           particular
           church
           :
           Yet
           Christ
           hath
           given
           it
           for
           the
           gathering
           in
           of
           his
           elect
           unto
           the
           church
           ,
           and
           therfore
           wee
           grant
           some
           acts
           of
           the
           Ministery
           ,
           viz.
           the
           preaching
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           is
           to
           be
           extended
           beyond
           the
           bounds
           of
           the
           church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           Seales
           and
           other
           Priviledges
           although
           
             de
             jure
          
           ,
           and
           remotely
           they
           belong
           to
           the
           catholique
           church
           ,
           or
           the
           number
           of
           beleevers
           :
           yet
           
             de
             facto
          
           and
           nextly
           they
           belong
           properly
           to
           this
           Subject
           which
           wee
           speake
           of
           ,
           (
           as
           wee
           hope
           to
           make
           good
           .
           )
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           They
           are
           not
           so
           appropriated
           to
           such
           congregations
           onely
           as
           to
           exclude
           the
           members
           of
           those
           congregations
           which
           are
           unde●
           the
           government
           of
           a
           common
           Presbytery
           or
           other
           formes
           of
           government
           ,
           for
           wee
           have
           a
           brotherly
           esteeme
           of
           such
           congrega●ions
           ,
           notwithstanding
           that
           
             tertium
             quoddam
             separabile
          
           of
           government
           ,
           (
           as
           Mr.
           Baines
           cals
           it
           )
           being
           a
           thing
           that
           commeth
           to
           a
           church
           now
           constituted
           ,
           and
           may
           be
           absent
           ,
           the
           church
           remaining
           a
           Church
           .
        
         
           Fourthly
           ,
           although
           it
           be
           said
           by
           some
           Divines
           ,
           that
           as
           faith
           is
           the
           internall
           form
           of
           the
           church
           ,
           so
           profession
           of
           faith
           is
           the
           outward
           form
           ,
           and
           that
           therefore
           bare
           profession
           of
           saith
           makes
           a
           member
           of
           the
           visible
           church
           ,
           yet
           this
           must
           be
           understood
           according
           to
           the
           interpretations
           of
           some
           of
           them
           who
           so
           speak
           ,
           for
           there
           is
           a
           double
           profession
           of
           faith
           ;
           Personall
           ,
           which
           is
           acted
           severally
           by
           particular
           persons
           ;
           and
           common
           ,
           which
           is
           acted
           conjointly
           in
           ,
           and
           with
           a
           Society
           :
           The
           first
           makes
           a
           man
           of
           the
           catholick
           number
           of
           visible
           Saints
           ,
           and
           so
           fit
           matter
           for
           politicall
           church-society
           :
           the
           other
           makes
           a
           man
           of
           the
           politicall
           church
           formally
           and
           compleatly
           ;
           and
           in
           this
           latter
           sense
           profession
           of
           faith
           is
           the
           externall
           form
           of
           a
           visible
           church
           ,
           but
           not
           in
           the
           other
           .
        
         
         
           Now
           that
           in
           and
           to
           this
           subject
           so
           professing
           ,
           the
           seals
           and
           other
           ordinances
           belong
           may
           ,
           be
           proved
           thus
           :
        
         
           
             Argum.
             1.
             
          
           First
           ,
           the
           seals
           and
           other
           Church-ordinances
           must
           either
           belong
           to
           the
           Catholick
           church
           as
           such
           ,
           or
           to
           the
           particular
           Church
           :
           but
           these
           cannot
           belong
           to
           the
           Catholick
           in
           actuall
           dispensation
           whereof
           we
           now
           speak
           :
           Ergo.
           For
           that
           Church
           which
           is
           uncapable
           of
           actuall
           dispensation
           of
           seales
           ,
           censures
           ,
           &c.
           is
           uncapable
           of
           the
           participation
           thereof
           in
           an
           orderly
           and
           ordinary
           way
           ;
           But
           the
           Catholick
           number
           of
           visible
           beleevers
           as
           Catholick
           ,
           and
           out
           of
           particular
           Societies
           ,
           are
           not
           capable
           of
           dispensing
           the
           same
           ;
           Ergo.
           
        
         
           The
           Proposition
           is
           evident
           ,
           for
           it
           cannot
           be
           shewed
           that
           any
           Church
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           was
           ever
           capable
           of
           participating
           in
           seals
           ,
           that
           was
           not
           capable
           of
           dispensing
           them
           ,
           at
           least
           not
           having
           a
           next
           power
           to
           elect
           Officers
           to
           do
           it
           .
        
         
           The
           Assumption
           is
           evident
           from
           what
           hath
           been
           proved
           ,
           that
           it
           is
           no
           politicall
           Body
           (
           the
           sole
           subject
           of
           Church
           administrations
           )
           neither
           in
           the
           whole
           ,
           nor
           in
           the
           parts
           as
           existing
           out
           of
           Congregations
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             2.
             
          
           If
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           be
           bound
           to
           joyn
           into
           particular
           Societies
           ,
           that
           they
           may
           partake
           of
           seals
           ,
           &c.
           then
           the
           seals
           are
           not
           to
           be
           administred
           immediatly
           to
           them
           ,
           for
           then
           they
           should
           have
           the
           end
           without
           the
           means
           .
        
         
           But
           they
           are
           bound
           to
           joyn
           in
           such
           Societies
           for
           that
           end
           ,
           for
           otherwise
           there
           is
           no
           necessity
           of
           erecting
           any
           particular
           Churches
           in
           the
           world
           ;
           and
           so
           all
           the
           glory
           of
           Christ
           in
           this
           respect
           should
           be
           laid
           in
           the
           dust
           ,
           and
           these
           particular
           temples
           destroyed
           ,
           and
           thus
           a
           door
           of
           liberty
           is
           opened
           to
           many
           to
           live
           loosely
           without
           the
           care
           and
           watch
           ,
           and
           communion
           of
           any
           particular
           Church
           in
           the
           world
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             3.
             
          
           If
           the
           seals
           are
           to
           be
           administred
           immediately
           to
           beleevers
           ,
           or
           professing
           beleevers
           as
           such
           ,
           then
           they
           may
           be
           administred
           privately
           to
           any
           one
           where-ever
           he
           be
           found
           ;
           but
           that
           were
           very
           irregular
           and
           against
           the
           common
           doctrine
           of
           Protestant
           Divines
           ,
           who
           give
           large
           testimony
           against
           private
           Baptism
           ,
           or
           of
           the
           Lords
           ▪
           supper
           ,
           neither
           doe
           we
           see
           any
           weight
           in
           the
           arguments
           of
           the
           Papists
           or
           Anabaptists
           alledged
           for
           the
           contrary
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             4.
             
          
           Lest
           we
           seem
           to
           stand
           alone
           in
           this
           controversies
           ,
           let
           the
           arguments
           produced
           by
           Didoclavius
           ,
           and
           him
           that
           writes
           concerning
           Perth
           Assembly
           against
           private
           Baptisms
           ,
           be
           considered
           ,
           and
           it
           will
           
           be
           found
           that
           most
           of
           them
           doe
           strongly
           conclude
           against
           administration
           thereof
           to
           any
           but
           Church-members
           .
        
         
           
             Argum.
             5.
             
          
           The
           learned
           Author
           Mr.
           Ball
           in
           this
           his
           dispute
           against
           our
           Conclusion
           :
           yet
           in
           his
           Discourse
           let
           fall
           sund●y
           ▪
           things
           that
           confirm
           it
           ;
           as
           when
           he
           describes
           the
           
             Catholick
             Church
             to
             be
             the
             Society
             
             of
             men
             professing
             the
             faith
             of
             Christ
             ,
             divided
             into
             many
             particular
             Churches
             .
          
           Whence
           we
           argue
           ,
           if
           the
           Catholick
           church
           existeth
           onely
           in
           these
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           the
           seales
           must
           onely
           be
           given
           to
           them
           and
           the
           members
           thereof
           ;
           also
           ,
           
             That
             Baptism
             is
             a
             solemn
             admission
          
           
           
             into
             the
             Church
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             must
             of
             necessity
             be
             administred
             in
             a
             particular
             Society
             :
          
           Whence
           three
           things
           will
           follow
           ;
           First
           ,
           that
           Baptism
           sometimes
           administred
           privately
           by
           the
           Apostles
           is
           not
           an
           ordinary
           pattern
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           Baptism
           is
           not
           to
           be
           administred
           to
           beleevers
           (
           as
           such
           )
           immediatly
           ,
           if
           of
           ▪
           necessity
           it
           must
           be
           administred
           in
           a
           particular
           Society
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           joyning
           to
           some
           particular
           Society
           being
           an
           Ordinance
           of
           God
           of
           so
           great
           concernment
           ;
           &
           if
           Baptism
           must
           be
           administred
           in
           it
           ,
           why
           ought
           not
           ,
           why
           may
           not
           such
           joyn
           to
           that
           Society
           ?
           (
           at
           least
           as
           members
           for
           a
           time
           .
           )
           Also
           when
           he
           saith
           divers
           times
           ,
           
             That
             men
             are
             made
             members
             of
             the
             Church
             by
             Baptism
             ,
          
           (
           speaking
           of
           such
           Churches
           as
           choose
           Officers
           over
           them
           ;
           )
           
             yea
             ,
             that
             the
             Apostles
             constituted
             Chrches
             by
             Baptism
             ,
          
           and
           the
           like
           ,
           (
           which
           we
           shall
           note
           in
           the
           answer
           ;
           )
           Now
           what
           doe
           these
           argue
           but
           a
           yeelding
           of
           the
           cause
           ?
           for
           if
           the
           Apostles
           made
           members
           ,
           and
           constituted
           Churches
           by
           Baptism
           ,
           this
           was
           onely
           sacramentally
           ,
           and
           if
           so
           ,
           then
           of
           necessity
           they
           must
           be
           really
           members
           of
           such
           Churches
           before
           Baptism
           .
        
         
           Thus
           we
           have
           run
           through
           this
           large
           field
           of
           the
           Catholick
           and
           particular
           Church
           ,
           which
           hath
           detained
           us
           longer
           then
           we
           intended
           ;
           yet
           ,
           to
           prevent
           mistakes
           from
           any
           thing
           that
           have
           been
           said
           concerning
           the
           union
           ,
           communion
           ,
           and
           combination
           of
           the
           Churches
           ;
           we
           shall
           add
           these
           two
           things
           .
        
         
           1
           We
           observe
           that
           the
           Scripture
           speaks
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           sometimes
           as
           One
           body
           ,
           sometimes
           as
           many
           ,
           and
           therefore
           called
           Churches
           ;
           and
           hence
           our
           care
           is
           to
           preserve
           not
           onely
           the
           distinction
           of
           Churches
           ,
           (
           as
           many
           by
           particular
           combinations
           )
           but
           also
           their
           unity
           ,
           as
           being
           one
           by
           spirituall
           relation
           .
        
         
           2
           Association
           of
           divers
           particular
           Churches
           we
           hold
           needfull
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           combination
           of
           members
           into
           one
           ;
           yet
           so
           as
           there
           be
           no
           schism
           of
           one
           from
           another
           ,
           nor
           usurpation
           of
           one
           over
           another
           ,
           that
           either
           one
           should
           deprive
           the
           rest
           of
           peace
           by
           schism
           ;
           
           or
           many
           should
           deprive
           any
           one
           of
           its
           power
           by
           usurpation
           ;
           hence
           a
           fraternall
           consociation
           we
           acknowledge
           ;
           consociation
           we
           say
           ,
           for
           mutuall
           counsell
           and
           helpe
           ,
           to
           prevent
           or
           remove
           sinne
           and
           schism
           ;
           yet
           fraternall
           onely
           ,
           to
           preserve
           each
           others
           power
           ;
           consociation
           of
           Churches
           we
           would
           have
           cumulative
           ,
           (
           not
           in
           words
           ,
           but
           in
           deed
           )
           to
           strengthen
           the
           power
           of
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           not
           privative
           ,
           to
           take
           away
           any
           power
           which
           they
           had
           from
           the
           gift
           of
           Christ
           before
           .
        
         
           For
           as
           on
           the
           one
           side
           it
           may
           seem
           strange
           that
           One
           Church
           offending
           should
           have
           no
           means
           of
           cure
           by
           the
           conceived
           power
           of
           many
           ;
           so
           on
           the
           other
           side
           the
           danger
           may
           appear
           as
           great
           ,
           and
           frequently
           falls
           out
           ,
           that
           when
           many
           Churches
           are
           scandalous
           ,
           one
           innocent
           Church
           may
           be
           hurt
           by
           the
           usurpation
           of
           all
           .
           And
           hence
           we
           see
           not
           ,
           but
           that
           fraternall
           consociation
           is
           the
           best
           medicine
           to
           heal
           the
           wounds
           of
           both
           .
        
         
           We
           utterly
           dislike
           such
           Independency
           as
           that
           which
           is
           maintained
           by
           contempt
           ,
           or
           carelesse
           neglect
           of
           sister
           Churches
           ;
           
             Faciunt
             favos
             &
             vespae
             ,
             faciunt
             Ecclesias
             &
             Marcionitae
             ,
          
           saith
           Ter●ullian
           .
           
        
         
           We
           utterly
           dislike
           such
           dependency
           of
           Churches
           upon
           others
           ,
           as
           is
           built
           upon
           usurpations
           and
           spoils
           of
           particular
           Churches
           .
        
         
           Having
           thus
           largely
           digressed
           for
           the
           clearing
           of
           the
           foundation
           of
           the
           dispute
           in
           hand
           ,
           we
           desire
           to
           be
           excused
           if
           we
           be
           the
           more
           brief
           in
           our
           answers
           to
           particulars
           ,
           which
           now
           we
           shall
           attend
           unto
           as
           they
           lye
           in
           order
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           VI.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             THe
             seals
             are
             given
             unto
             the
             Church
             not
             onely
             in
             ordinary
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             say
             )
             but
             also
             in
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             ,
             &c.
             
             And
             when
             you
             say
             ,
             the
             dispensing
             of
             the
             seals
             is
             an
             ordinance
             given
             onely
             for
             the
             edifying
             of
             the
             Church
             gathered
             ,
             must
             it
             not
             be
             understood
             of
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             as
             well
             as
             of
             ordinary
             ,
             &c.
             added
             these
             words
             [
             ordinary
             dispensation
             ]
             were
             ,
             to
             prevent
             the
             objection
             which
             you
             foresaw
             might
             be
             made
             from
             the
             Apostles
             practice
             and
             example
             ,
             but
             so
             as
             they
             cut
             asunder
             the
             sinews
             of
             the
             consideration
             it self
             ,
             and
             make
             it
             of
             no
             force
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Before
           we
           come
           to
           the
           particulars
           of
           the
           Reply
           ,
           it
           is
           needfull
           to
           clear
           our
           meaning
           from
           this
           mistake
           about
           the
           word
           [
           
             ordinary
             dispensation
          
           ;
           ]
           which
           being
           rightly
           understood
           ,
           it
           will
           appear
           that
           
           it
           no
           way
           cuts
           the
           sinews
           of
           the
           consideration
           as
           is
           objected
           .
           For
           whereas
           ,
           first
           ,
           you
           extend
           the
           opposite
           term
           ,
           [
           
             extraordinary
             dispensation
          
           ]
           to
           the
           whole
           generall
           practice
           of
           the
           Apostles
           and
           Evangelists
           ;
           and
           secondly
           ,
           take
           it
           for
           granted
           ,
           that
           their
           practice
           was
           not
           to
           baptize
           members
           of
           particular
           Churches
           :
           we
           neither
           intended
           the
           first
           ,
           nor
           doe
           we
           grant
           the
           second
           ;
           as
           for
           the
           first
           ,
           we
           acknowledge
           freely
           that
           the
           Apostles
           and
           Evangelists
           ordinarily
           and
           generally
           practiced
           according
           to
           comon
           rules
           in
           this
           point
           of
           baptizing
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           in
           other
           ,
           and
           left
           their
           practice
           for
           our
           pattern
           ,
           and
           therefore
           their
           ordinary
           practice
           in
           this
           thing
           we
           shall
           stick
           to
           ;
           yet
           they
           having
           not
           onely
           extraordinary
           power
           above
           Pastors
           and
           Teachers
           ,
           but
           also
           having
           sometime
           an
           immediate
           call
           unto
           some
           acts
           and
           speciall
           guidance
           of
           the
           Spirit
           to
           warrant
           what
           they
           did
           ,
           therefore
           there
           were
           some
           of
           their
           actions
           ,
           especially
           in
           respect
           of
           some
           circumstances
           thereof
           ,
           which
           ordinary
           Pastors
           (
           not
           so
           assisted
           )
           may
           not
           doe
           ;
           as
           in
           this
           case
           when
           they
           baptized
           in
           private
           houses
           ,
           in
           the
           wildernesse
           alone
           ,
           and
           not
           in
           the
           face
           of
           a
           Congregation
           ,
           &c.
           and
           therefore
           if
           in
           some
           few
           cases
           some
           doe
           think
           they
           did
           not
           baptize
           into
           a
           particular
           Church
           ;
           yet
           if
           their
           ordinary
           practice
           were
           otherwise
           ,
           we
           ought
           to
           imitate
           the
           ordinary
           ,
           not
           some
           extraordinary
           cases
           ;
           and
           thus
           the
           sinews
           and
           force
           of
           the
           consideration
           remains
           strong
           ,
           notwithstanding
           this
           word
           of
           [
           
             ordinary
             dispensation
          
           :
           ]
           and
           that
           this
           was
           our
           meaning
           ,
           was
           not
           hard
           to
           discern
           ,
           by
           the
           Scriptures
           cited
           in
           the
           answer
           ,
           to
           prove
           the
           seales
           are
           given
           unto
           the
           Church
           in
           ordinary
           dispensation
           ,
           amongst
           which
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           41
           ,
           42
           ,
           47.
           containing
           the
           Apostles
           first
           practice
           in
           this
           kinde
           are
           expressed
           ;
           and
           Mr.
           Ball
           took
           notice
           thereof
           ,
           as
           appears
           by
           his
           own
           reference
           to
           the
           same
           afterwards
           ,
           though
           in
           his
           printed
           Reply
           those
           quotations
           bee
           wholly
           left
           out
           :
        
         
           2
           Let
           us
           consider
           whether
           the
           Apostles
           ordinarily
           did
           not
           baptize
           into
           particular
           Churches
           ;
           and
           this
           may
           be
           proved
           from
           the
           stories
           of
           their
           ordinary
           practice
           :
           First
           ,
           it
           will
           be
           easily
           granted
           that
           the
           Apostles
           did
           gather
           disciples
           into
           particular
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           but
           there
           is
           no
           other
           time
           or
           season
           of
           doing
           it
           can
           be
           shewed
           in
           all
           the
           stories
           of
           their
           Acts
           ;
           yea
           ,
           sometimes
           they
           were
           so
           suddenly
           called
           away
           ,
           or
           enforced
           away
           by
           persecution
           after
           they
           had
           converted
           disciples
           ,
           that
           it
           is
           very
           improbable
           ,
           if
           not
           impossible
           ,
           they
           should
           do
           it
           at
           all
           ,
           but
           when
           they
           converted
           and
           baptized
           them
           ,
           as
           Acts
           16
           ,
           40.
           
           &
           17.
           5.
           
           &c.
           
        
         
         
           But
           to
           come
           more
           particularly
           unto
           the
           story
           it self
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           first
           ,
           and
           exemplary
           practi●●
           being
           the
           best
           interpreter
           of
           their
           commission
           ,
           and
           of
           their
           ordinary
           proceeding
           therein
           ;
           the
           first
           converts
           which
           the
           Apostles
           baptized
           after
           the
           visible
           kingdom
           of
           Christ
           was
           set
           up
           ▪
           were
           those
           in
           that
           famous
           place
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           41.
           concerning
           whom
           observe
           ,
           first
           ;
           that
           the
           Apostle
           Peter
           not
           onely
           preached
           unto
           them
           repentance
           and
           faith
           in
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           ,
           with
           promise
           of
           remission
           of
           sins
           ,
           and
           that
           they
           should
           be
           baptized
           ,
           but
           according
           to
           that
           commission
           ,
           Mat.
           28.
           with
           many
           other
           words
           he
           exhorted
           them
           ,
           saying
           ,
           
             Save
             your selves
             from
             this
             untoward
             generation
             ,
          
           being
           the
           very
           scope
           of
           his
           exhortation
           ;
           and
           this
           implies
           a
           gathering
           of
           themselves
           to
           the
           fellowship
           of
           the
           saints
           ;
           and
           al
           this
           Word
           they
           gladly
           received
           before
           they
           were
           baptized
           .
        
         
           2
           When
           the
           holy
           Ghost
           ,
           vers
           .
           41.
           declareth
           their
           baptizing
           ,
           he
           records
           withall
           their
           adding
           to
           them
           ,
           the
           latter
           being
           an
           exegesis
           of
           the
           former
           ,
           and
           that
           the
           same
           day
           ,
           as
           being
           performed
           at
           the
           same
           time
           ;
           and
           indeed
           when
           a
           convert
           publickly
           professeth
           his
           faith
           in
           Christ
           ,
           is
           it
           not
           as
           easily
           done
           ,
           to
           receive
           ▪
           him
           to
           a
           particular
           visible
           Church
           ,
           as
           into
           the
           Catholick
           before
           Baptism
           ;
           but
           first
           to
           baptize
           them
           ,
           and
           then
           the
           same
           day
           to
           add
           or
           joyn
           them
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           is
           altogether
           unprobable
           .
           And
           that
           this
           adding
           was
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           is
           sufficiently
           proved
           before
           .
        
         
           The
           next
           place
           you
           may
           note
           ,
           is
           Acts
           5.
           14.
           where
           the
           Holy
           Ghost
           omitting
           the
           baptizing
           of
           those
           beleevers
           ,
           yet
           speaks
           of
           their
           adding
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           as
           if
           the
           one
           implyed
           ,
           the
           other
           ;
           and
           that
           their
           adding
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           was
           by
           their
           joyning
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           is
           evident
           by
           the
           opposition
           between
           verse
           13
           &
           14
           Of
           the
           rest
           durst
           no
           man
           joyn
           himself
           to
           them
           ,
           but
           beleevers
           were
           the
           more
           added
           to
           the
           Lord.
           
        
         
           3
           In
           the
           conversion
           of
           Samaria
           ,
           although
           so
           great
           a
           work
           is
           declared
           in
           so
           few
           words
           in
           one
           verse
           ,
           Act.
           8
           ,
           12.
           yet
           the
           text
           puts
           a
           manifest
           distinction
           of
           Philips
           doctrine
           between
           the
           things
           of
           the
           Kingdom
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           the
           name
           of
           Jesus
           Christ
           :
           which
           plainly
           enough
           sheweth
           ,
           that
           they
           taught
           the
           observing
           of
           the
           order
           of
           the
           Kingdom
           of
           Christ
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           Doctrine
           of
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           ,
           the
           object
           of
           saving
           faith
           .
           And
           this
           they
           received
           by
           faith
           ,
           and
           professed
           before
           they
           were
           baptized
           .
        
         
           Now
           the
           first
           and
           most
           famous
           examples
           of
           the
           Apostles
           perswading
           that
           so
           they
           practised
           ,
           why
           should
           we
           doubt
           of
           their
           like
           practice
           in
           other
           examples
           when
           nothing
           ,
           is
           said
           that
           contradicteth
           
           the
           same
           ?
           as
           Acts
           10.
           in
           the
           baptizing
           of
           Cornelius
           his
           house
           ,
           where
           so
           many
           were
           met
           ,
           and
           the
           Holy
           Ghost
           fell
           on
           all
           ;
           why
           should
           we
           think
           the
           Apostle
           Peter
           baptized
           them
           ,
           and
           left
           them
           out
           of
           the
           order
           of
           Christ
           ,
           wherein
           they
           should
           worship
           him
           ,
           and
           be
           edified
           in
           the
           faith
           ?
           If
           we
           doubt
           of
           it
           ,
           because
           the
           Scripture
           is
           silent
           therein
           ,
           we
           may
           as
           well
           question
           whether
           those
           beleevers
           ,
           Acts
           4.
           4.
           
           &
           9.
           35.
           
           &
           vers
           .
           42.
           whether
           any
           of
           these
           confessed
           their
           faith
           ,
           or
           were
           baptized
           ,
           for
           nothing
           is
           said
           thereof
           :
           So
           likewise
           Acts
           11.
           where
           we
           read
           of
           many
           beleeving
           ,
           turning
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           vers
           .
           21.
           of
           the
           adding
           others
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           vers
           .
           24.
           but
           nothing
           of
           their
           confession
           of
           faith
           or
           baptism
           ,
           and
           yet
           they
           are
           called
           a
           Church
           ;
           whereby
           it
           appears
           that
           the
           holy
           Ghost
           sometime
           expresseth
           their
           baptism
           without
           joyning
           to
           the
           Church
           ;
           and
           sometimes
           joyning
           without
           baptism
           ,
           and
           sometime
           he
           expresseth
           both
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           41.
           
           And
           therefore
           hence
           we
           may
           conclude
           the
           like
           of
           the
           case
           of
           Lydia
           and
           the
           Jaylor
           ;
           considering
           the
           former
           practice
           of
           the
           Apostles
           :
           and
           that
           the
           Apostle
           speaks
           so
           expresly
           of
           a
           Church
           at
           Philippi
           in
           the
           beginning
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           Phil.
           4.
           at
           which
           time
           we
           have
           no
           more
           conversions
           expressed
           but
           of
           those
           two
           families
           ;
           at
           least
           ,
           they
           were
           the
           most
           eminent
           fruits
           of
           Pauls
           Ministery
           at
           that
           time
           ;
           and
           it
           is
           very
           probable
           the
           Church
           was
           gathered
           in
           Lydia's
           house
           ,
           seeing
           Paul
           going
           out
           of
           prison
           to
           her
           house
           ,
           he
           is
           said
           to
           see
           the
           Brethren
           ,
           and
           comfort
           them
           ,
           so
           departing
           ,
           verse
           40.
           
           Besides
           ;
           why
           might
           not
           the
           Apostle
           baptize
           them
           into
           that
           particular
           visible
           Church
           in
           such
           a
           case
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           into
           the
           Catholick
           ,
           or
           all
           Churches
           ,
           as
           some
           say
           ,
           they
           professing
           subjection
           to
           Christ
           in
           every
           ordinance
           of
           his
           ,
           with
           reference
           to
           that
           Church
           he
           had
           there
           constituted
           ?
           The
           fulnesse
           of
           power
           in
           the
           Apostles
           might
           doe
           greater
           matters
           without
           breach
           of
           order
           ,
           though
           no
           rule
           for
           us
           so
           to
           do
           ;
           neither
           is
           it
           strange
           from
           the
           practice
           of
           those
           times
           to
           begin
           a
           Church
           in
           a
           family
           ,
           seeing
           the
           Apostle
           speaks
           of
           Churches
           in
           three
           severall
           families
           ,
           
             Rom.
             16.
             5.
             
             Col.
             4.
             15.
             
             Phil.
          
           2.
           which
           though
           many
           understand
           to
           be
           called
           Churches
           in
           regard
           of
           the
           godlinesse
           of
           those
           families
           ;
           yet
           i●
           we
           consider
           ;
           First
           ,
           how
           many
           eminent
           Saints
           the
           Apostle
           salutes
           ,
           (
           who
           no
           doubt
           ●ad
           godly
           families
           )
           not
           so
           much
           as
           naming
           their
           housholds
           ;
           much
           lesse
           giving
           them
           such
           a
           title
           ,
           but
           onely
           to
           these
           three
           named
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           how
           distinct
           his
           salutations
           are
           ,
           first
           the
           
             Governors
             ,
             and
             then
             the
             Church
             in
             their
             house
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           that
           the
           Apostle
           doth
           not
           onely
           send
           his
           salutations
           to
           the
           Church
           in
           the
           
           house
           of
           Aquila
           and
           
             Priscilla
             ,
             Rom.
          
           16.
           5.
           but
           also
           keeping
           the
           name
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           he
           sends
           salutations
           from
           that
           Church
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           
             Corinth
             ,
             1
             Cor.
          
           16.
           19.
           
           All
           which
           doe
           strongly
           argue
           there
           is
           more
           in
           it
           ,
           then
           that
           they
           were
           godly
           families
           ,
           and
           therefore
           may
           perswade
           us
           that
           there
           were
           indeed
           constituted
           Churches
           in
           those
           Families
           ,
           though
           other
           Christians
           also
           might
           joyn
           with
           them
           .
        
         
           Thus
           having
           cleared
           our
           meaning
           ,
           and
           the
           consideration
           it self
           ,
           there
           will
           remain
           very
           few
           extraordinary
           cases
           ,
           (
           if
           any
           )
           of
           whom
           it
           can
           be
           proved
           ,
           they
           were
           not
           joyned
           to
           some
           particular
           Church
           when
           baptized
           ;
           as
           that
           of
           the
           Eunuch
           ,
           which
           as
           it
           was
           done
           by
           an
           extraordinary
           immediate
           call
           of
           Philip
           so
           to
           doe
           ;
           so
           also
           there
           was
           a
           speciall
           reason
           thereof
           ,
           the
           Lord
           intending
           thereby
           ,
           rather
           by
           him
           to
           send
           the
           Gospel
           into
           Ethiopia
           ,
           then
           to
           retain
           him
           in
           any
           other
           place
           ,
           to
           joyn
           with
           his
           Church
           :
           And
           the
           Baptism
           of
           Paul
           ,
           who
           as
           without
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Word
           he
           was
           converted
           by
           the
           immediate
           voice
           of
           Christ
           ,
           so
           he
           was
           baptized
           by
           the
           immediate
           call
           of
           Ananias
           so
           to
           do
           .
           Now
           let
           us
           proceed
           to
           consider
           what
           further
           is
           replyed
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             seals
             Baptism
             and
             the
             Lords-supper
             are
             given
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             not
             onely
             in
             ordinary
             ,
             but
             also
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             :
             True
             Baptism
             is
             not
             without
             the
             Church
             ,
             but
             in
             it
             ,
             an
             ordinance
             given
             to
             it
             .
             The
             Sacraments
             are
             the
             seales
             of
             the
             Covenant
             to
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             which
             is
             the
             form
             of
             the
             Church
             tokens
             and
             pledges
             of
             our
             spirituall
             admittance
             into
             the
             Lords
             family
             .
             Hence
             it
             is
             inferred
             ,
             that
             if
             the
             seales
             in
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             were
             given
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             yet
             to
             members
             of
             no
             particular
             Church
             ,
             then
             also
             in
             ordinary
             dispensation
             it
             may
             be
             so
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           It
           will
           not
           follow
           ;
           for
           first
           ,
           if
           the
           Apostle
           in
           extraordinary
           cases
           baptized
           privately
           ,
           will
           it
           follow
           that
           in
           ordinary
           dispensation
           it
           may
           be
           so
           ?
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           because
           the
           Ministery
           be
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           extraordinary
           Officers
           were
           not
           limited
           to
           particular
           Churches
           ;
           will
           it
           therefore
           follow
           that
           in
           ordinary
           dispensations
           ,
           Ministers
           ought
           not
           to
           be
           given
           onely
           to
           particular
           churches
           ?
           Thirdly
           ,
           as
           we
           have
           oft
           said
           ,
           that
           seals
           belong
           
             de
             jure
          
           to
           all
           beleevers
           ,
           as
           such
           ,
           as
           members
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           (
           they
           being
           given
           unto
           it
           firstly
           ,
           as
           to
           its
           object
           and
           end
           )
           and
           all
           that
           are
           truly
           baptized
           ,
           are
           baptized
           into
           it
           ,
           and
           thus
           never
           out
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           being
           tokens
           of
           our
           spirituall
           admittance
           into
           the
           Lords
           family
           both
           in
           ordinary
           and
           extraordinary
           dispensation
           ;
           but
           doth
           it
           hence
           follow
           that
           actuall
           fruition
           of
           the
           seales
           (
           of
           which
           the
           question
           
           is
           stated
           )
           may
           ordinarily
           be
           had
           or
           given
           to
           such
           as
           set
           loose
           from
           all
           societies
           ?
           the
           Apostles
           had
           extraordinary
           power
           ,
           being
           generall
           Pastors
           over
           all
           persons
           beleeving
           as
           well
           as
           Churches
           ;
           and
           therfore
           at
           some
           times
           by
           speciall
           guidance
           of
           the
           Spirit
           they
           might
           doe
           that
           which
           ordinary
           Pastors
           may
           not
           do
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             as
             the
             seals
             ,
             so
             the
             Word
             of
             salvation
             preached
             and
             received
             ,
             is
             a
             priviledge
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             &c.
             
             If
             by
             preaching
             be
             meant
             the
             giving
             of
             the
             Word
             unto
             a
             people
             ,
             to
             abide
             and
             continue
             with
             them
             ,
             and
             consequently
             the
             receiving
             of
             it
             at
             least
             in
             profession
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             proper
             to
             the
             church
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             ▪
          
           We
           grant
           ,
           (
           in
           some
           sense
           )
           it
           is
           a
           priviledge
           ,
           and
           proper
           to
           the
           Church
           so
           to
           have
           the
           Word
           ;
           but
           this
           no
           way
           takes
           away
           the
           difference
           between
           the
           Seals
           and
           the
           Word
           ,
           which
           the
           answer
           makes
           ,
           viz
           That
           the
           Word
           is
           not
           such
           a
           peculiar
           priviledge
           of
           the
           Church
           as
           the
           Seals
           ,
           in
           that
           the
           one
           is
           dispensed
           not
           onely
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           also
           to
           others
           for
           the
           gathering
           of
           them
           ,
           which
           is
           not
           so
           in
           the
           Seals
           ,
           for
           the
           Word
           of
           God
           received
           in
           Corinth
           abiding
           with
           them
           ,
           professed
           of
           them
           ,
           was
           not
           so
           peculiar
           ,
           but
           an
           Idiot
           comming
           in
           might
           partake
           in
           the
           same
           ,
           but
           not
           so
           in
           the
           Sacraments
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           14.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Word
             makes
             Disciples
             ,
             the
             Word
             given
             unto
             a
             people
             is
             Gods
             covenanting
             with
             them
             ,
             and
             the
             peoples
             receiving
             this
             Word
             ,
             and
             professing
             their
             faith
             in
             God
             through
             Jesus
             Christ
             ,
             is
             the
             taking
             of
             God
             to
             be
             their
             God
             ,
             the
             laws
             and
             statutes
             which
             God
             gave
             unto
             Israel
             ,
             were
             a
             testimony
             that
             God
             hath
             separated
             them
             from
             all
             other
             people
             :
             the
             Word
             of
             reconciliation
             is
             sent
             and
             given
             to
             the
             world
             reconciled
             in
             Iesus
             Christ
             ,
             and
             they
             that
             receive
             the
             Doctrine
             ,
             Law
             ,
             or
             Word
             of
             God
             ,
             are
             the
             disciples
             ,
             servants
             ,
             and
             people
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           In
           these
           words
           ,
           and
           that
           which
           follows
           in
           the
           second
           Paragraph
           ,
           there
           seems
           to
           be
           a
           double
           scope
           :
           First
           ,
           to
           prove
           the
           Word
           proper
           to
           the
           Church
           ;
           to
           which
           is
           answered
           afore
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           where-ever
           the
           Word
           of
           God
           is
           ,
           there
           is
           the
           true
           visible
           Church
           ;
           and
           so
           where
           the
           true
           Worship
           of
           God
           is
           ,
           there
           is
           a
           mark
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           especially
           where
           it
           is
           received
           and
           confessed
           .
           To
           which
           we
           answer
           :
        
         
           1
           There
           is
           a
           covenanting
           between
           God
           and
           man
           ,
           which
           is
           personall
           ,
           and
           so
           whosoever
           receives
           the
           Word
           of
           Gods
           grace
           by
           faith
           sent
           unto
           him
           by
           God
           ,
           enters
           into
           Covenant
           to
           be
           his
           ,
           and
           that
           before
           he
           makes
           any
           visible
           profession
           thereof
           ,
           and
           so
           every
           beleever
           is
           a
           disciple
           ,
           a
           servant
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           one
           of
           Gods
           people
           ,
           
           but
           many
           thousands
           of
           these
           considered
           onely
           in
           this
           their
           personall
           relation
           to
           God
           ,
           doe
           not
           make
           a
           visible
           Church
           ,
           many
           such
           might
           be
           in
           the
           world
           ,
           but
           no
           members
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           ,
           until
           they
           came
           and
           joyned
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           Israel
           of
           Old
           ,
           or
           to
           the
           visible
           Churches
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           .
        
         
           2
           There
           is
           a
           sociall
           or
           common
           covenanting
           between
           God
           and
           a
           people
           ,
           to
           be
           a
           God
           to
           them
           ,
           and
           they
           a
           people
           unto
           God
           in
           outward
           visible
           profession
           of
           his
           Worship
           ;
           and
           so
           the
           Lord
           took
           Abraham
           and
           his
           seed
           into
           Covenant
           ,
           and
           renewed
           that
           Covenant
           with
           them
           ,
           as
           an
           holy
           Nation
           and
           peculiar
           people
           to
           him
           ;
           and
           in
           this
           covenanting
           of
           God
           with
           a
           people
           ,
           whereby
           they
           become
           a
           Church
           ,
           there
           is
           required
           ,
           first
           ,
           that
           they
           be
           many
           ,
           not
           one
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           these
           many
           become
           one
           body
           ,
           one
           people
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           that
           they
           make
           visible
           profession
           of
           their
           Covenant
           with
           God
           really
           ,
           or
           vocally
           .
           Fourthly
           ,
           that
           this
           Covenant
           contain
           a
           profession
           of
           subjection
           to
           the
           ordinances
           of
           Gods
           Worship
           ,
           wherein
           God
           requires
           a
           Church
           to
           walk
           together
           before
           him
           :
           and
           all
           these
           may
           be
           seen
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           Israel
           ,
           who
           received
           Gods
           laws
           indeed
           ,
           but
           so
           as
           they
           became
           one
           people
           to
           God
           ,
           visibly
           avouched
           God
           for
           their
           God
           ,
           received
           and
           submitted
           unto
           all
           the
           laws
           of
           his
           Worship
           ,
           Government
           ,
           and
           other
           Ordinances
           .
           And
           this
           is
           expresly
           or
           implicitly
           in
           every
           true
           visible
           Church
           ,
           though
           more
           or
           lesse
           fully
           and
           purely
           .
        
         
           Now
           if
           you
           intend
           such
           a
           covenanting
           of
           a
           people
           with
           God
           ,
           by
           a
           professed
           receiving
           of
           his
           Word
           ,
           and
           subjection
           to
           his
           Ordinances
           ;
           we
           grant
           such
           to
           be
           true
           Churches
           ,
           and
           to
           such
           the
           seals
           do
           belong
           ;
           and
           therefore
           we
           willingly
           close
           with
           the
           Conclusion
           that
           follows
           ,
           
             They
             that
             have
             received
             the
             Word
             of
             salvation
             entirely
             ,
             and
             have
             Pastors
             godly
             and
             faithfull
             to
             feed
             and
             guide
             them
             ,
             they
             and
             their
             seed
             have
             right
             to
             the
             seals
             in
             order
             .
             And
             they
             that
             joyn
             together
             in
             the
             true
             Worship
             of
             God
             ,
             according
             to
             his
             will
             ,
             with
             godly
             and
             faithfull
             Pastors
             ,
             they
             have
             right
             to
             the
             sacraments
             ,
             according
             to
             Divine
             institution
             .
          
           These
           conclusions
           we
           willingly
           embrace
           ,
           and
           inferr
           ,
           that
           if
           the
           seals
           belong
           to
           such
           a
           Church
           ,
           then
           to
           particular
           Congregations
           .
           For
           where
           shall
           we
           finde
           a
           people
           joyning
           together
           with
           godly
           Pastors
           ,
           but
           in
           such
           particular
           Assemblies
           ?
           For
           we
           doubt
           not
           our
           Brethren
           doe
           disclaim
           all
           Diocesan
           Pastors
           or
           Provinciall
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             That
             there
             is
             now
             no
             visible
             Catholick
             Church
             in
             your
             sense
             ,
             will
             easily
             be
             granted
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
         
           If
           this
           be
           granted
           in
           our
           sense
           ,
           so
           that
           there
           be
           no
           such
           Catholick
           church
           wherein
           seals
           are
           to
           be
           dispensed
           ;
           then
           it
           will
           fall
           to
           be
           the
           right
           and
           priviledge
           of
           particular
           Congregations
           ,
           to
           have
           the
           seals
           in
           the
           administration
           proper
           to
           them
           ;
           and
           so
           the
           cause
           is
           yeelded
           ;
           but
           because
           there
           is
           so
           much
           here
           spoken
           of
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           much
           urged
           from
           it
           ,
           we
           shall
           refer
           the
           Reader
           to
           what
           is
           said
           before
           ,
           onely
           one
           thing
           we
           shall
           note
           about
           the
           instance
           of
           Athanasius
           ,
           that
           a
           man
           may
           be
           a
           member
           of
           the
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           ,
           but
           of
           no
           particular
           Society
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             You
             say
             it
             is
             evidenced
             ,
             in
             that
             a
             Christian
             (
             as
          
           Athanasius
           
             for
             an
             example
             )
             may
             be
             cut
             off
             unjustly
             from
             the
             particular
             visible
             Church
             ,
             wherein
             he
             was
             born
             ,
             and
             yet
             remains
             a
             member
             of
             the
             Catholick
             visible
             orthodox
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           case
           proves
           nothing
           ;
           for
           look
           how
           such
           a
           Christian
           stands
           to
           the
           Catholick
           ,
           so
           he
           stands
           to
           the
           particular
           Church
           :
           if
           he
           be
           unjustly
           censured
           ,
           as
           he
           remains
           before
           God
           a
           member
           of
           the
           Catholick
           ,
           so
           also
           the
           particular
           Church
           ,
           for
           
             clavis
             errans
             non
             ligat
          
           :
           and
           in
           respect
           of
           men
           ,
           and
           communion
           with
           other
           Churches
           in
           the
           seals
           ,
           if
           they
           receive
           him
           ,
           being
           satisfied
           that
           he
           is
           unjustly
           cast
           out
           ;
           they
           may
           receive
           him
           ,
           not
           for
           his
           generall
           interest
           in
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           but
           in
           respect
           of
           his
           true
           membership
           in
           the
           particular
           Church
           ,
           that
           unjustly
           cast
           him
           out
           :
           Whereas
           ,
           if
           the
           Churches
           were
           not
           perswaded
           but
           that
           he
           were
           justly
           cast
           out
           of
           the
           particular
           ,
           they
           ought
           not
           to
           admit
           him
           to
           seales
           ,
           were
           he
           as
           Orthodox
           as
           Athanasius
           himself
           in
           doctrine
           ,
           and
           as
           holy
           in
           his
           life
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Though
             there
             be
             no
             universall
             Congregation
             ,
             nor
             can
             be
             imagined
             ,
             yet
             there
             are
             and
             have
             been
             many
             visible
             Assemblies
             or
             Societies
             ,
             true
             Churches
             of
             Christ
             ,
             to
             whom
             the
             prerogative
             of
             the
             seals
             is
             given
             ,
             which
             have
             not
             been
             united
             and
             knit
             together
             into
             one
             Congregation
             or
             Society
             in
             Church-order
             .
             For
             every
             Society
             in
             Covenant
             with
             God
             ,
             is
             the
             true
             Church
             of
             God.
             For
             what
             is
             it
             to
             be
             the
             flock
             ,
             people
             ,
             or
             sheep
             of
             God
             ,
             but
             to
             be
             the
             Church
             of
             God
             ?
             and
             where
             there
             is
             a
             Covenant
             ,
             there
             is
             the
             people
             of
             God
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           assertion
           seems
           to
           us
           very
           strange
           to
           fall
           from
           that
           reverend
           and
           learned
           Author
           ,
           being
           a
           foundation
           of
           many
           inconveniences
           and
           absurdities
           ,
           and
           tending
           to
           overthrow
           the
           order
           of
           Christ
           in
           his
           visible
           Churches
           ▪
           For
           ,
        
         
           First
           ,
           if
           this
           be
           so
           ,
           that
           every
           Society
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           ,
           be
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           then
           men
           may
           set
           up
           as
           many
           Forms
           of
           
           visible
           Churches
           as
           they
           please
           ,
           (
           if
           the
           people
           be
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           visibly
           at
           least
           )
           the
           Archdeacon
           with
           his
           Commissary
           ,
           Priests
           ,
           Churchwardens
           ,
           &c.
           being
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           ,
           are
           a
           true
           Church
           :
           So
           the
           Diocesan
           Bishop
           in
           his
           Cathedrall
           with
           his
           Clergy
           ,
           or
           any
           such
           Assembly
           ,
           are
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           ;
           or
           what
           other
           form-soever
           men
           will
           devise
           ,
           may
           goe
           for
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           to
           them
           belong
           the
           seals
           ,
           and
           (
           you
           may
           as
           wel
           say
           )
           discipline
           ,
           and
           all
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           if
           they
           bee
           the
           true
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           upon
           this
           ground
           every
           company
           of
           godly
           Christistians
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           ,
           meeting
           in
           fasting
           ,
           prayer
           ,
           &c.
           are
           the
           true
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           to
           them
           (
           as
           such
           )
           the
           seals
           belong
           ,
           and
           sending
           for
           a
           true
           Minister
           of
           the
           Catholick
           church
           ,
           they
           may
           have
           Baptism
           and
           the
           Lords-supper
           administred
           ,
           and
           by
           the
           same
           reason
           discipline
           also
           :
           yea
           ,
           if
           but
           two
           or
           three
           (
           as
           you
           say
           )
           being
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           ,
           meet
           together
           in
           their
           travail
           at
           an
           Inne
           ,
           &c.
           are
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           especially
           every
           Christian
           family
           is
           the
           Church
           ;
           for
           they
           professe
           the
           entire
           faith
           ,
           joyn
           (
           daily
           )
           in
           prayer
           and
           thanksgiving
           ,
           receive
           the
           truth
           of
           God
           to
           dwell
           amongst
           them
           ,
           are
           in
           some
           measure
           obedient
           unto
           the
           commands
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           :
        
         
           And
           therefore
           being
           the
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           why
           not
           call
           for
           a
           Minister
           ,
           and
           have
           seals
           ordinarily
           dispensed
           to
           them
           ?
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           upon
           this
           ground
           a
           company
           of
           Christian
           Women
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           are
           a
           Church
           ,
           to
           whom
           the
           seales
           belong
           ;
           and
           who
           sees
           not
           ,
           how
           all
           orderly
           dispensation
           of
           Gods
           Ordinances
           ,
           and
           the
           whole
           order
           of
           visible
           Churches
           in
           the
           Gospel
           would
           be
           overturned
           by
           this
           assertion
           ?
           We
           verily
           beleeve
           this
           Author
           was
           far
           from
           admitting
           these
           things
           ,
           but
           the
           Position
           it self
           will
           unavoidably
           enforce
           the
           same
           .
           Neither
           can
           we
           impute
           this
           assertion
           to
           any
           inconsideratenesse
           through
           heat
           of
           disputation
           .
           For
           if
           any
           shall
           maintain
           the
           personall
           Covenant
           of
           people
           with
           God
           to
           be
           sufficient
           to
           constitute
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           and
           not
           admit
           a
           necessity
           of
           a
           more
           publick
           or
           generall
           Covenant
           explicite
           or
           implicite
           ,
           whereby
           a
           company
           of
           Christians
           are
           made
           one
           people
           ,
           joyning
           in
           one
           Congregation
           to
           worship
           God
           in
           his
           holy
           Ordinances
           ,
           and
           walk
           together
           in
           his
           ways
           ,
           they
           must
           of
           necessity
           acknowledge
           every
           Society
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           to
           be
           a
           Church
           ,
           as
           here
           is
           said
           ;
           and
           therefore
           admit
           all
           forms
           of
           Churches
           ,
           and
           all
           Families
           ,
           &c.
           to
           be
           Churches
           ,
           and
           so
           bring
           in
           the
           
           confusion
           objected
           ,
           which
           we
           desire
           may
           well
           bee
           considered
           .
        
         
           All
           your
           Arguments
           stand
           upon
           that
           ground
           of
           personall
           covenant
           with
           God
           ,
           which
           is
           too
           weak
           to
           bear
           up
           that
           conclusion
           ,
           to
           make
           all
           such
           visible
           Churches
           to
           whom
           the
           seals
           belong
           ,
           as
           the
           absurd
           consequences
           thereof
           shew
           .
        
         
           These
           Reasons
           ,
           and
           the
           Scriptures
           in
           the
           margent
           (
           some
           of
           them
           )
           will
           prove
           them
           fit
           matter
           for
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           and
           that
           they
           have
           a
           remote
           right
           unto
           the
           seals
           of
           that
           Covenant
           ,
           (
           which
           we
           grant
           )
           but
           they
           will
           not
           prove
           every
           Society
           of
           such
           to
           bee
           true
           Churches
           ,
           having
           immediate
           right
           to
           have
           the
           seals
           dispensed
           unto
           them
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fifthly
           ,
           
             If
             it
             be
             granted
             that
             the
             seals
             are
             the
             prerogative
             of
             particular
             visible
             Churches
             ,
             known
             and
             approved
             Christians
             amongst
             us
             are
             members
             of
             such
             Churches
             ,
             and
             so
             to
             be
             esteemed
             amongst
             you
             ,
             &c.
             and
             every
             visible
             beleever
             professing
             the
             pure
             entire
             faith
             ,
             admitted
             to
             the
             right
             and
             lawfull
             participation
             of
             the
             sacraments
             ,
             is
             a
             visible
             member
             of
             the
             true
             Church
             ,
             if
             he
             hath
             neither
             renounced
             the
             Society
             ,
             nor
             deserved
             justly
             to
             be
             cast
             out
             by
             excommunication
             ,
             or
             Church
             censure
             ,
             &c.
             
             And
             if
             known
             and
             approved
             Christians
             ,
             members
             of
             our
             Churches
             comming
             to
          
           New-England
           ,
           
             shall
             desire
             to
             have
             their
             children
             baptized
             ,
             or
             themselves
             admitted
             to
             the
             Lords-supper
             ,
             before
             they
             be
             set
             members
             amongst
             you
             ;
             we
             desire
             to
             know
             upon
             what
             grounds
             from
             God
             you
             can
             deny
             them
             ,
             if
             you
             acknowledge
             our
             Churches
             ,
             Ministery
             and
             Sacraments
             to
             be
             true
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             professe
             )
             and
             the
             members
             of
             the
             Church
             be
             known
             and
             approved
             ,
             orderly
             recommended
             unto
             you
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             ▪
          
           We
           grant
           all
           this
           here
           expressed
           for
           the
           substance
           ,
           however
           some
           reasons
           spoken
           unto
           before
           intermixed
           we
           passe
           over
           ,
           and
           to
           your
           question
           we
           frame
           a
           ready
           answer
           from
           your
           own
           words
           .
           For
           ,
           first
           ,
           you
           grant
           ,
           that
           if
           such
           members
           have
           renounced
           that
           Society
           wherein
           they
           did
           partake
           of
           the
           seals
           ,
           they
           are
           not
           to
           be
           reputed
           members
           of
           it
           ;
           and
           this
           is
           generally
           the
           case
           of
           all
           approved
           Christians
           among
           us
           ,
           who
           though
           they
           doe
           not
           so
           renounce
           the
           Churches
           that
           bare
           them
           ,
           and
           gave
           them
           suck
           ,
           as
           no
           true
           Churches
           ;
           yet
           seeing
           they
           were
           grown
           so
           corrupt
           many
           ways
           ,
           as
           they
           could
           neither
           enjoy
           some
           needfull
           Ordinances
           ,
           nor
           partake
           in
           those
           they
           had
           without
           sin
           ,
           they
           have
           therefore
           renounced
           and
           forsaken
           all
           further
           communion
           with
           them
           ,
           and
           membership
           in
           them
           ;
           and
           so
           by
           your
           own
           grant
           ,
           neither
           themselves
           ,
           nor
           the
           Churches
           here
           can
           take
           them
           as
           members
           of
           your
           Churches
           ,
           to
           receive
           them
           under
           that
           respect
           .
        
         
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           any
           yet
           have
           not
           so
           far
           renounced
           those
           Churches
           they
           belonged
           unto
           ,
           yet
           they
           are
           not
           orderly
           recommended
           unto
           us
           ,
           which
           also
           you
           grant
           ought
           to
           be
           ,
           and
           indeed
           otherwise
           we
           may
           oft
           receive
           persons
           justly
           excommunicate
           ,
           or
           such
           as
           are
           no
           members
           of
           Churches
           any
           where
           ,
           or
           otherwise
           under
           great
           offence
           ,
           as
           frequent
           examples
           amongst
           our selves
           doe
           shew
           ,
           though
           the
           Church
           may
           think
           well
           of
           such
           as
           offer
           themselves
           .
           What
           else
           follows
           in
           this
           Paragraph
           ,
           is
           the
           same
           in
           substance
           ,
           and
           much
           of
           it
           in
           words
           also
           ,
           that
           we
           have
           answered
           before
           ;
           and
           therefore
           we
           passe
           it
           over
           ;
           and
           that
           of
           the
           Jewish
           Church
           we
           shall
           speak
           to
           after
           .
           As
           for
           that
           you
           desire
           leave
           to
           set
           down
           ,
           and
           us
           to
           examine
           what
           may
           be
           objected
           against
           that
           we
           affirmed
           ,
           That
           the
           distinct
           Churches
           named
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           were
           Congregationall
           Societies
           ;
           we
           shall
           consider
           as
           followeth
           :
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             number
             of
             beleevers
             were
             so
             great
             in
             some
             Cities
             ,
             that
             they
             could
             not
             conveniently
             meet
             in
             one
             place
             as
             one
             Assembly
             to
             worship
             God
             according
             to
             his
             will
             ,
             and
             for
             their
             edifying
             ,
             as
             in
             Samaria
             ,
             Jerusalem
             ,
             Antioch
             ,
             Ephesus
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Although
           we
           expected
           not
           Objections
           in
           this
           case
           against
           the
           currant
           Tenent
           of
           our
           godly
           Reformers
           ,
           
             Baine
             ,
             Parker
             ,
             &c.
          
           with
           whom
           we
           joyn
           ;
           and
           we
           might
           refer
           you
           to
           them
           for
           answer
           to
           this
           beaten
           Objection
           of
           the
           Prelates
           ;
           yet
           we
           are
           not
           unwilling
           to
           examine
           what
           is
           said
           in
           this
           digression
           .
           The
           Argument
           stands
           thus
           :
           If
           the
           number
           of
           beleevers
           were
           so
           great
           in
           some
           City
           ,
           as
           could
           not
           meet
           in
           one
           Assembly
           to
           edification
           ;
           then
           there
           was
           some
           other
           form
           of
           a
           Church
           besides
           Congregationall
           ;
           But
           so
           it
           was
           in
           
             Samaria
             ,
             &c
             ▪
             Answ
          
           .
           We
           deny
           the
           consequences
           ,
           for
           when
           they
           grew
           to
           so
           great
           a
           number
           ,
           they
           might
           fall
           into
           more
           Congregationall
           Churches
           ,
           and
           so
           no
           other
           form
           arise
           from
           the
           multitude
           ;
           but
           we
           suppose
           you
           mean
           of
           such
           a
           multitude
           as
           is
           called
           a
           Church
           ;
           and
           therefore
           to
           answer
           to
           your
           Assumption
           ,
           we
           deny
           that
           any
           such
           multitude
           of
           beleevers
           as
           is
           here
           called
           a
           Church
           were
           so
           great
           as
           could
           not
           meet
           to
           edification
           :
           And
           first
           concerning
           Samaria
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             That
             there
             was
             a
             Church
             gathered
             in
             Samaria
             ,
             will
             not
             be
             denyed
             ,
             for
             they
             received
             the
             Word
             ,
             and
             were
             baptized
             ;
             but
             that
             the
             Church
             in
             that
             City
             was
             onely
             a
             Congregationall
             Assembly
             ,
             is
             more
             then
             can
             probably
             be
             concluded
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           grant
           a
           Church
           or
           Churches
           were
           gathered
           in
           
             Samaria
             ▪
          
           and
           we
           accept
           your
           reason
           as
           good
           ,
           because
           they
           received
           the
           
           Word
           ,
           and
           were
           baptized
           ,
           where
           (
           by
           the
           way
           )
           you
           grant
           what
           we
           pleaded
           for
           before
           ,
           That
           the
           Apostles
           gathered
           Churches
           ,
           when
           they
           baptized
           them
           :
           but
           that
           there
           was
           but
           one
           Congregationall
           Assembly
           ,
           lyes
           not
           in
           us
           to
           prove
           ,
           untill
           you
           prove
           that
           all
           the
           beleevers
           were
           called
           a
           Church
           ,
           or
           one
           Church
           ,
           which
           doth
           not
           appear
           in
           the
           whole
           story
           ,
           Acts
           8.
           nor
           any
           other
           where
           that
           we
           can
           finde
           ;
           and
           it
           is
           very
           probable
           that
           as
           Philip
           converted
           and
           baptized
           so
           great
           a
           multitude
           at
           severall
           times
           ,
           and
           gathered
           them
           into
           the
           Church
           or
           Churches
           as
           he
           baptized
           them
           ,
           so
           he
           might
           gather
           severall
           Churches
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           one
           ,
           seeing
           that
           none
           doubt
           but
           that
           Congregationall
           Churches
           are
           an
           ordinance
           of
           Christ
           ,
           what
           ever
           men
           contend
           for
           beside
           .
           And
           therefore
           be
           the
           number
           of
           beleevers
           in
           Samaria
           as
           great
           as
           you
           would
           have
           it
           ,
           it
           proves
           nothing
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Church
             at
             Jerusalem
             was
             one
             ,
             and
             distinct
             ,
             yet
             encreased
             to
          
           3000
           ,
           
             then
             to
             5000
             ,
             &c.
          
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Be
           it
           so
           ,
           the
           increase
           was
           very
           great
           ;
           yet
           so
           long
           as
           they
           are
           called
           one
           distinct
           Church
           ,
           it
           was
           one
           Congregation
           ,
           viz.
           untill
           they
           scattering
           by
           the
           persecution
           about
           
             Stephen
             ,
             Acts
          
           7.
           8.
           which
           is
           evident
           by
           these
           two
           arguments
           .
           First
           ,
           Acts
           2
           41
           ,
           &c.
           where
           we
           see
           the
           3000
           added
           to
           the
           120.
           they
           have
           their
           communion
           together
           described
           :
           1
           In
           regard
           of
           their
           spirituall
           communion
           ,
           to
           be
           in
           the
           Apostles
           doctrine
           ,
           fellowship
           ,
           breaking
           of
           bread
           and
           Prayer
           ,
           verse
           42.
           
           Secondly
           ,
           in
           regard
           of
           their
           outward
           communion
           in
           the
           good
           things
           of
           this
           life
           ;
           they
           bad
           all
           things
           common
           ,
           and
           sold
           their
           possessions
           ,
           &c.
           verse
           44
           ,
           &
           45
           :
           Now
           the
           manner
           of
           both
           parts
           of
           this
           communion
           in
           respect
           of
           time
           and
           place
           is
           described
           ,
           verse
           46.
           viz.
           in
           their
           spirituall
           duties
           ;
           They
           continued
           daily
           with
           one
           accord
           in
           the
           Temple
           .
           And
           secondly
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           their
           outward
           communion
           in
           their
           States
           ,
           They
           eat
           their
           meat
           from
           house
           to
           house
           ;
           this
           latter
           requiring
           many
           tables
           and
           many
           houses
           to
           provide
           for
           them
           ;
           so
           that
           although
           in
           their
           outward
           communion
           ,
           it
           was
           in
           private
           houses
           ,
           yet
           their
           spirituall
           communion
           it
           was
           with
           one
           accord
           in
           one
           place
           ,
           viz.
           the
           Temple
           ,
           where
           they
           had
           room
           enough
           ;
           being
           the
           place
           erected
           for
           a
           Nationall
           Church
           ;
           and
           having
           favour
           with
           all
           the
           people
           ,
           were
           not
           interrupted
           therein
           by
           any
           persecution
           .
           We
           need
           not
           step
           out
           of
           our
           way
           to
           reply
           to
           all
           that
           is
           said
           against
           this
           reason
           .
           It
           is
           enough
           for
           us
           to
           note
           ,
           that
           they
           daily
           with
           one
           
           accord
           met
           ,
           and
           that
           in
           the
           Temple
           ,
           which
           is
           not
           answered
           by
           any
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           ,
           or
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           .
        
         
           2
           This
           appeareth
           ,
           Acts
           6.
           1
           ,
           5.
           where
           it
           is
           evident
           the
           election
           of
           Deacons
           was
           before
           ,
           and
           by
           the
           multitude
           ,
           verse
           1.
           by
           the
           whole
           multitude
           ,
           verse
           5.
           and
           this
           was
           the
           last
           Church-meeting
           and
           Church-act
           we
           read
           of
           before
           their
           scattering
           ;
           neither
           can
           it
           appear
           that
           the
           Jews
           and
           Grecians
           ,
           whose
           Widows
           murmured
           were
           two
           distinct
           Congregations
           ;
           but
           the
           contrary
           is
           evident
           ,
           in
           that
           the
           Deacons
           were
           chosen
           al
           by
           the
           whole
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           whole
           ,
           not
           distinctly
           so
           many
           for
           this
           ,
           and
           so
           many
           for
           that
           Church
           ,
           as
           it
           was
           needful
           if
           they
           were
           two
           Churches
           .
           These
           proofs
           being
           so
           clear
           ,
           the
           inconveniences
           objected
           are
           of
           no
           force
           ,
           and
           sufficiently
           answered
           by
           many
           examples
           of
           as
           great
           Assemblies
           meeting
           ordinarily
           to
           edification
           ;
           as
           beside
           the
           Auditory
           of
           Chrysostome
           ,
           cited
           by
           others
           ;
           the
           Assemblies
           of
           Stepney
           in
           
             London
             ,
             Y●rmouth
          
           in
           Norfolk
           ,
           and
           others
           in
           our
           experience
           .
           Beza
           ,
           a
           man
           not
           loving
           to
           hyperbolize
           ,
           saith
           ,
           that
           being
           in
           Paris
           ,
           there
           met
           at
           a
           Sermon
           *
           24000.
           
           And
           of
           a
           Synodall
           Assembly
           that
           they
           received
           the
           Lords-supper
           no
           lesse
           then
           10000.
           
           
             Beza
             Epist.
          
           65.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Without
             question
             the
             number
             of
             beleevers
             at
          
           Antioch
           
             was
             not
             small
             ,
             of
             which
             it
             is
             expresly
             said
             ,
          
           That
           a
           great
           number
           beleeved
           ,
           and
           that
           a
           great
           multitude
           were
           added
           to
           the
           Lord
           by
           the
           preaching
           of
           Barnabas
           ,
           &c.
           
             and
             therefore
             we
             may
             think
             the
             Church
             rose
             to
             such
             a
             bignesse
             as
             could
             not
             well
             assemble
             in
             one
             Congregation
             ,
          
           Acts
           11.
           21.
           
           &
           14.
           27.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           In
           that
           place
           ,
           Acts
           11.
           21.
           the
           great
           number
           that
           beleeved
           ,
           was
           the
           fruit
           of
           all
           the
           scattered
           Christians
           at
           
             Phenice
             ,
             Cyprus
          
           ,
           and
           Antioch
           ;
           for
           the
           hand
           of
           the
           Lord
           was
           with
           them
           all
           ,
           and
           their
           whole
           successe
           is
           summed
           up
           together
           ,
           nothing
           said
           before
           of
           the
           other
           places
           .
        
         
           2
           Though
           Paul
           and
           Barnabas
           taught
           much
           people
           ,
           yet
           it
           proveth
           not
           that
           this
           much
           people
           were
           converted
           to
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
           3
           Though
           much
           people
           were
           added
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           yet
           doth
           it
           follow
           they
           were
           more
           then
           could
           meet
           in
           one
           Congregation
           ?
           and
           if
           first
           Disciples
           were
           there
           called
           Christians
           ,
           must
           it
           needs
           be
           for
           their
           number
           ,
           and
           not
           rather
           for
           eminent
           likeness
           to
           Christ
           ,
           with
           other
           specialities
           of
           providence
           ?
        
         
           4
           It
           is
           expresly
           said
           ,
           the
           Church
           was
           gathered
           together
           ,
           Acts
           14.
           27.
           which
           is
           not
           meant
           of
           the
           Elders
           onely
           ,
           as
           if
           they
           onely
           could
           meet
           ;
           for
           
             Chap.
             15.
             30.
             
             They
             gathered
             the
             multitude
             together
          
           ;
           
           so
           that
           it
           was
           not
           such
           a
           number
           but
           might
           meet
           together
           in
           one
           place
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             number
             of
             beleevers
             was
             great
             at
          
           Ephesus
           ,
           where
           Paul
           
             preached
             two
             years
             ;
             all
             that
             dwelt
             in
          
           Asia
           
             heard
             the
             Word
             ;
             a
             great
             door
             and
             effectuall
             ways
             open
             to
             him
             ,
             where
             the
             Shrines
             of
          
           Diana
           
             her
             Temple
             were
             in
             danger
             to
             be
             set
             at
             nought
             ;
             where
             those
             that
             used
             curious
             arts
             ,
             burnt
             their
             books
             openly
             :
             which
             could
             not
             be
             done
             without
             great
             danger
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             unlesse
             a
             great
             part
             of
             the
             City
             had
             beleeved
             ,
          
           Acts
           19.
           10
           ,
           19
           ,
           27.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Be
           it
           so
           ,
           that
           many
           were
           converted
           ,
           and
           the
           Word
           grew
           mightily
           ;
           this
           proves
           not
           that
           all
           who
           heard
           Paul
           ,
           were
           of
           the
           Church
           of
           Ephesus
           ,
           for
           then
           all
           Asia
           should
           be
           of
           that
           Church
           ,
           (
           Acts
           19.
           10.
           
           )
           who
           did
           hear
           the
           Word
           both
           Jews
           and
           Gentiles
           ;
           As
           for
           the
           danger
           of
           the
           Shrines
           ,
           and
           
           Diana's
           Temple
           to
           be
           set
           at
           nought
           ,
           a
           little
           spark
           might
           kindle
           such
           fears
           ,
           and
           raise
           such
           outcryes
           in
           the
           covetous
           Craftsmen
           ,
           by
           whom
           the
           whole
           City
           was
           set
           in
           a
           superstitious
           uproare
           ;
           our
           own
           experience
           may
           teach
           ,
           how
           soon
           a
           prophane
           people
           will
           cry
           out
           against
           a
           faithfull
           Minister
           before
           he
           hath
           converted
           ten
           men
           in
           a
           City
           .
        
         
           2
           That
           they
           could
           not
           burn
           their
           books
           openly
           without
           danger
           to
           the
           Churches
           ,
           except
           a
           great
           part
           of
           the
           City
           beleeved
           ,
           seems
           a
           strange
           reason
           :
           as
           if
           beleevers
           durst
           not
           professe
           openly
           ,
           except
           they
           had
           a
           great
           number
           to
           maintain
           them
           with
           club-law
           :
           open
           profession
           in
           those
           times
           even
           amongst
           a
           few
           ,
           was
           not
           wont
           to
           be
           daunted
           with
           the
           grim
           looks
           of
           persecution
           .
        
         
           3
           And
           lastly
           ,
           we
           grant
           Ephesus
           might
           be
           a
           numerous
           Church
           ;
           yet
           neither
           there
           ,
           nor
           any
           thing
           that
           is
           said
           from
           Rev.
           2.
           7.
           
           (
           
             Hear
             what
             the
             Spirit
             saith
             to
             the
             Churches
          
           )
           can
           perswade
           us
           that
           it
           was
           any
           more
           then
           one
           Congregation
           ;
           for
           that
           argues
           no
           more
           ,
           that
           Ephesus
           was
           a
           compound
           of
           many
           Churches
           ,
           then
           that
           it
           was
           compounded
           with
           all
           the
           other
           six
           Churches
           of
           Asia
           ;
           yea
           ,
           the
           Churches
           of
           all
           the
           world
           :
           for
           what
           the
           Spirit
           speaketh
           to
           one
           Church
           ,
           is
           spoken
           for
           the
           use
           of
           all
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             not
             essentiall
             to
             the
             Church
             to
             meet
             together
             in
             one
             place
             ordinarily
             ,
             nor
             is
             the
             Society
             broken
             off
             by
             persecution
             ,
             when
             their
             meeting
             together
             in
             one
             place
             be
             interrupted
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           is
           true
           ;
           one
           Church
           or
           Society
           by
           persecution
           or
           otherwise
           ,
           may
           meet
           in
           severall
           companies
           ;
           neither
           doe
           we
           say
           ,
           that
           place
           ,
           or
           meeting
           in
           one
           place
           ,
           is
           properly
           essentiall
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           necessary
           both
           
             necessitate
             praecepti
             &
             medii
          
           ,
           to
           be
           able
           at
           least
           so
           to
           doe
           :
           for
           though
           it
           be
           not
           necessary
           to
           the
           unity
           of
           the
           Society
           
           thus
           to
           meet
           together
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           necessary
           to
           the
           communion
           thereof
           in
           all
           Ordinances
           .
           It
           is
           not
           necessary
           to
           the
           unity
           of
           a
           Classicall
           Presbytery
           to
           meet
           ordinarily
           in
           one
           place
           ,
           but
           unto
           the
           communion
           thereof
           it
           is
           necessary
           .
           When
           the
           Papists
           to
           maintain
           their
           private
           Masses
           ,
           say
           ,
           That
           place
           is
           but
           accidentall
           to
           the
           ordinance
           :
           And
           that
           Christians
           are
           not
           bound
           to
           the
           circumstance
           of
           place
           (
           as
           Hardin
           objects
           )
           any
           more
           ,
           then
           to
           observe
           dayes
           ,
           moneths
           ,
           times
           ,
           condemned
           as
           beggerly
           Elements
           by
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           Gal.
           4.
           
           As
           also
           ,
           that
           all
           the
           faithfull
           are
           united
           together
           by
           the
           Sacrament
           ,
           though
           they
           meet
           not
           in
           the
           same
           place
           ,
           as
           the
           Ancients
           note
           :
           How
           doth
           learned
           Chamier
           answer
           them
           ?
           he
           tels
           
           them
           ,
           
             That
             although
             this
             or
             that
             particular
             place
             is
             not
             necessary
             ,
             yet
             a
             place
             indefinitely
             taken
             is
             :
          
           And
           that
           the
           
             Sacrament
             is
             restrained
             to
             be
             administred
             in
             a
             place
             ,
             because
             it
             cannot
             be
             administred
             but
          
           conventu
           fidelium
           ;
           
             and
             this
          
           conventus
           
             must
             be
             in
             some
             place
          
           :
           And
           he
           adds
           ,
           
             That
             although
             all
             the
             faithfull
             have
             communion
             in
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             though
             they
             meet
             not
             in
             one
             and
             the
             same
             place
          
           ;
           yet
           this
           (
           he
           saith
           )
           is
           to
           be
           understood
           of
           spirituall
           ,
           not
           
             sacramentall
             communion
             ;
             Nunquam
             enim
             auditum
             ,
             qui
             Hierosolymis
             erant
             ,
             sacramentaliter
             communicasse
             cum
             iis
             qui
             Alexandriae
             :
          
           and
           therefore
           he
           thought
           communion
           in
           one
           place
           together
           necessary
           to
           Church-communion
           ,
           as
           wee
           doe
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Seventhly
           ,
           
             Seeing
             then
             both
             the
             seals
             in
             ordinary
             and
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           ,
           with
           that
           which
           follows
           ,
           being
           but
           a
           recapitulation
           of
           the
           severall
           Replies
           made
           ,
           we
           shall
           leave
           it
           to
           the
           judicious
           ,
           having
           well
           observed
           our
           answer
           ,
           to
           embrace
           or
           reject
           the
           Conclusion
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           VII
           .
           Consid
           .
           2.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             To
             the
             second
             Consideration
             of
             the
             Answer
             .
          
           
             THe
             Proposition
             is
             granted
             ,
             That
             the
             dispensation
             of
             the
             Sacraments
             both
             ordinary
             and
             extraordinary
             ,
             is
             limited
             to
             the
             Ministery
             ;
             but
             in
             that
             you
             alledge
             for
             confirmation
             some
             things
             may
             be
             noted
             :
             1
             The
             first
             institution
             of
             Baptism
             is
             not
             contained
             in
             that
             passage
             ,
             but
             confirmed
             ,
             for
             the
             seals
             were
             instituted
             before
             his
             death
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           Proposition
           being
           granted
           ,
           and
           the
           proof
           Mat.
           28.
           19.
           being
           (
           we
           doubt
           not
           )
           pertinent
           in
           the
           Authors
           own
           judgment
           ,
           as
           
           well
           as
           ours
           ;
           Brotherly
           love
           might
           easily
           have
           passed
           over
           greater
           mistakes
           then
           the
           answer
           seems
           to
           have
           fallen
           into
           :
           for
           ,
           by
           First
           institution
           here
           ,
           we
           meant
           no
           more
           ,
           then
           that
           it
           is
           the
           ordinance
           of
           Christ
           himself
           ,
           instituted
           in
           that
           first
           time
           of
           all
           Divine
           ordinances
           .
           We
           were
           not
           so
           ignorant
           to
           think
           there
           was
           no
           use
           ,
           and
           so
           no
           institution
           of
           Baptism
           before
           the
           death
           of
           Christ
           ;
           and
           therefore
           this
           confutation
           might
           have
           been
           spared
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             We
             see
             not
             how
             you
             can
             apply
             that
             Text
             ,
          
           Matth.
           28
           19.
           
             to
             preaching
             by
             Office
             ;
             which
             by
             your
             exposition
             is
             a
             dispensing
             of
             a
             fit
             portion
             to
             every
             one
             of
             the
             household
             ;
             and
             it
             is
             plain
             the
             Apostles
             were
             sent
             to
             preach
             to
             every
             creature
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           As
           if
           that
           commission
           ,
           Matth.
           28.
           did
           not
           authorize
           them
           also
           ,
           and
           require
           them
           to
           dispense
           fit
           portions
           to
           the
           Churches
           :
           did
           not
           the
           care
           of
           all
           the
           Churches
           lye
           on
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           2
           Cor.
           11.
           28.
           so
           also
           1
           Cor.
           7.
           17.
           were
           not
           Apostles
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           for
           the
           edifying
           of
           the
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           &c.
           as
           well
           as
           other
           Officers
           ?
           
             Ephes
             .
             4.
             11
             ,
             12.
             1
             
             Cor.
          
           12.
           28.
           and
           therefore
           this
           note
           also
           might
           well
           have
           been
           spared
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           
             If
             under
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             you
             comprehend
             preaching
             by
             Office
             ,
             dispensing
             seals
             ,
             &c.
             we
             deny
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             to
             belong
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             or
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             in
             those
             passages
             which
             speak
             of
             this
             power
             ,
             the
             execution
             of
             this
             authority
             is
             given
             to
             them
             to
             whom
             the
             authority
             is
             committed
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           of
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           ,
           and
           the
           execution
           thereof
           ,
           was
           onely
           in
           the
           Answer
           touched
           by
           the
           way
           ,
           to
           prevent
           the
           objection
           of
           some
           .
        
         
           1
           It
           is
           well
           known
           that
           it
           is
           no
           new
           opinion
           to
           hold
           ,
           that
           the
           Church
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           the
           Keys
           ,
           and
           to
           alledge
           Matth.
           16.
           
           &
           18.
           for
           the
           same
           ,
           and
           therefore
           might
           as
           well
           have
           been
           set
           in
           the
           margent
           ;
           many
           ancient
           Divines
           ,
           and
           our
           own
           Modern
           ,
           as
           
             Fulke
             ,
             Whittaker
             ,
             Baine
             ,
             Parker
             ,
          
           and
           others
           ,
           as
           Robinson
           ,
           if
           there
           were
           not
           a
           desire
           to
           possesse
           people
           with
           that
           conceit
           ,
           that
           we
           goe
           in
           new
           ways
           with
           the
           Separatists
           alone
           .
        
         
           2
           We
           distinguish
           between
           power
           and
           authority
           :
           there
           is
           a
           power
           ,
           right
           ,
           or
           priviledge
           ,
           as
           Joh.
           1.
           12.
           which
           is
           not
           authority
           properly
           so
           called
           ;
           the
           first
           is
           in
           the
           whole
           Church
           ,
           by
           which
           they
           have
           right
           to
           choose
           Officers
           ,
           Acts
           6.
           
           &
           14.
           receiving
           members
           ,
           &c.
           
           Authority
           (
           properly
           so
           called
           )
           we
           ascribe
           onely
           to
           the
           Officers
           under
           Christ
           to
           rule
           and
           govern
           ,
           whom
           the
           Church
           must
           obey
           .
           Now
           we
           grant
           that
           where
           authority
           is
           given
           ,
           there
           power
           
           to
           exercise
           it
           is
           given
           also
           ,
           as
           
             Mat.
             28.
             
             Joh.
          
           20.
           &c.
           it
           is
           given
           to
           the
           Apostles
           and
           Ministers
           ;
           and
           so
           where
           power
           is
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           there
           power
           to
           exercise
           the
           same
           orderly
           is
           given
           also
           ,
           as
           
             Mat.
             18.
             1
             
             Cor.
             5.
             2
             
             Cor.
          
           2.
           10.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             be
             given
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             the
             Apostles
             themselves
             must
             derive
             their
             authority
             immediately
             from
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             not
             from
             Christ
             ;
             for
             the
             power
             must
             be
             derived
             from
             them
             unto
             whom
             it
             was
             given
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           deny
           your
           consequence
           ,
           for
           the
           Lord
           may
           give
           power
           to
           his
           Church
           in
           all
           ordinary
           cases
           ,
           and
           yet
           reserve
           to
           himself
           that
           prerogative
           to
           doe
           what
           he
           please
           immediately
           without
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           is
           cleare
           ,
           that
           in
           this
           case
           he
           hath
           ,
           first
           calling
           his
           twelve
           Apostles
           ,
           Mat.
           10.
           before
           he
           instituted
           the
           Church
           of
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           after
           he
           was
           pleased
           to
           use
           the
           Ministery
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           Acts
           1.
           to
           choose
           two
           ,
           and
           take
           one
           of
           them
           immediately
           by
           a
           lot
           ;
           and
           when
           Paul
           was
           called
           he
           appeared
           to
           him
           immediatly
           ,
           and
           called
           him
           both
           to
           the
           faith
           ,
           and
           to
           his
           Apostleship
           ,
           whereby
           it
           is
           clear
           that
           their
           call
           is
           a
           reserved
           case
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             Ministers
             dispense
             the
             seals
             as
             the
             stewards
             of
             Christ
             ,
             from
             whom
             they
             receive
             their
             authority
             immediately
             ;
             then
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             is
             not
             in
             the
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ;
             if
             as
             the
             servants
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             from
             which
             they
             derive
             their
             authority
             ;
             then
             the
             Office
             of
             a
             Minister
             is
             not
             the
             immediate
             gift
             of
             Christ
             ;
             nor
             the
             Minister
             so
             much
             the
             servant
             of
             Christ
             ,
             as
             of
             the
             Church
             from
             whom
             he
             must
             receive
             Lawes
             ,
             in
             whose
             names
             he
             must
             doe
             his
             Office
             ,
             and
             to
             whom
             he
             must
             give
             account
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           Objection
           will
           hold
           as
           strongly
           against
           any
           other
           subject
           of
           the
           Keys
           that
           can
           bee
           named
           ,
           (
           as
           Classes
           ,
           Synods
           ,
           or
           Church
           Catholick
           )
           and
           therefore
           by
           this
           manner
           of
           reasoning
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           must
           doe
           all
           things
           immediately
           himself
           in
           choosing
           Officers
           ,
           &c.
           or
           else
           his
           Ministers
           must
           receive
           Laws
           ,
           doe
           all
           in
           the
           name
           of
           such
           as
           he
           delegates
           to
           that
           work
           of
           administration
           under
           him
           ,
           and
           therefore
           let
           others
           look
           to
           answer
           this
           Objection
           as
           well
           as
           we
           :
           Our
           answer
           is
           briefly
           &
           plainly
           this
           ,
           the
           Office
           is
           the
           immediate
           institution
           of
           Christ
           ,
           the
           gifts
           and
           power
           belonging
           thereto
           are
           from
           Christ
           immediately
           ,
           and
           therefore
           he
           ministers
           in
           his
           name
           ,
           and
           must
           give
           account
           to
           him
           ,
           1
           Pet.
           5.
           and
           yet
           his
           outward
           cal
           to
           this
           Office
           ,
           whereby
           he
           hath
           authority
           to
           administer
           the
           holy
           things
           of
           Christ
           to
           the
           church
           ,
           is
           from
           Christ
           by
           his
           Church
           ,
           and
           this
           makes
           him
           no
           more
           the
           servant
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           then
           a
           Captain
           (
           by
           the
           leave
           of
           the
           Generall
           )
           chosen
           by
           the
           Band
           
           of
           Souldiers
           is
           the
           servant
           of
           his
           Band.
           Wee
           see
           in
           this
           reply
           here
           and
           elsewhere
           how
           apt
           men
           are
           to
           cast
           this
           odium
           upon
           this
           Doctrine
           ,
           and
           to
           ranke
           us
           with
           Separatists
           in
           it
           ,
           but
           it
           is
           easily
           wiped
           off
           and
           stickes
           as
           fast
           upon
           the
           Classes
           ,
           Synods
           ,
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           or
           any
           other
           subject
           of
           this
           power
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             communitie
             of
             the
             faithfull
             have
             to
             doe
             in
             all
             matters
             of
             the
             body
             ,
             to
             admit
             members
             cast
             out
             ,
             make
             and
             depose
             Ministers
             ,
             &c.
             by
             authority
             from
             Christ
             ,
             wee
             cannot
             see
             how
             in
             your
             judgement
             the
             execution
             of
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             is
             concredited
             to
             the
             Ministers
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           the
           power
           ,
           priviledge
           and
           liberty
           of
           the
           people
           be
           rightly
           distinguished
           from
           the
           authority
           of
           the
           officers
           as
           it
           ought
           ,
           a
           dim
           sight
           may
           easily
           perceive
           how
           the
           execution
           of
           the
           Keys
           by
           the
           officers
           authoritatively
           may
           stand
           with
           the
           liberties
           of
           the
           people
           in
           their
           place
           obedientially
           following
           and
           concurring
           with
           their
           guides
           ,
           so
           long
           as
           they
           goe
           along
           with
           Christ
           their
           King
           and
           his
           Lawes
           ,
           and
           cleaving
           in
           their
           obedience
           to
           Christ
           dissenting
           from
           their
           guides
           ,
           when
           they
           forsake
           Christ
           in
           their
           ministrations
           ;
           if
           there
           need
           an
           ocular
           demonstration
           hereof
           ,
           it
           is
           at
           hand
           in
           all
           civill
           administrations
           wherein
           the
           execution
           of
           Laws
           and
           of
           justice
           in
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Judges
           and
           the
           priviledge
           power
           or
           liberty
           of
           the
           people
           in
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Jurours
           .
           Both
           sweetly
           concurre
           in
           every
           case
           both
           civill
           &
           criminall
           ;
           neither
           is
           the
           use
           of
           a
           Jury
           onely
           to
           finde
           the
           fact
           done
           ,
           or
           not
           done
           ,
           (
           as
           some
           answer
           this
           instance
           )
           but
           also
           the
           nature
           and
           degree
           of
           the
           fact
           in
           reference
           to
           the
           Law
           that
           awards
           answerable
           punishments
           ;
           as
           whether
           the
           fact
           be
           simple
           theft
           ,
           or
           burglary
           ,
           murder
           or
           manslaughter
           ,
           &c.
           and
           so
           in
           cases
           of
           dammages
           ,
           costs
           in
           civill
           cases
           ;
           whereby
           it
           appeares
           ,
           that
           although
           the
           power
           and
           priviledge
           of
           the
           people
           be
           great
           ,
           yet
           the
           execution
           authoritatively
           may
           bee
           wholly
           in
           the
           Officers
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fourthly
           ,
           
             That
             which
             you
             adde
             ,
             that
             God
             will
             not
             vouchsafe
             his
             presence
             and
             blessing
             to
             an
             Ordinance
             but
             when
             it
             is
             dispensed
             by
             those
             whom
             hee
             hath
             appointed
             thereunto
             ,
             must
             be
             warily
             understood
             ,
             or
             it
             may
             occasion
             errors
             and
             distractions
             not
             a
             few
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           shall
           not
           contradict
           your
           warinesse
           in
           this
           case
           ,
           for
           wee
           acknowledge
           a
           presence
           of
           God
           with
           his
           Ordinances
           administred
           by
           such
           as
           hee
           appoints
           ,
           though
           some
           corruptions
           bee
           admixed
           ,
           in
           the
           entrance
           and
           administrations
           ;
           but
           wee
           doubt
           not
           the
           presence
           and
           blessing
           of
           God
           is
           more
           or
           lesse
           according
           to
           the
           purity
           or
           corruptions
           of
           the
           administration
           and
           participation
           of
           his
           Ordinances
           :
           but
           what
           need
           there
           was
           ,
           or
           use
           of
           this
           note
           wee
           see
           
           not
           ,
           our
           words
           were
           sound
           ,
           and
           safe
           enough
           ,
           but
           it
           seemes
           your
           tendernesse
           of
           the
           standings
           of
           Ministers
           and
           Ordinances
           in
           England
           occasioned
           this
           warinesse
           ,
           and
           wee
           deny
           not
           what
           you
           say
           ,
           that
           Gods
           presence
           ,
           and
           blessing
           upon
           his
           ordinances
           dispensed
           by
           us
           gave
           some
           approbation
           to
           our
           standing
           and
           to
           his
           Ordinances
           ,
           the
           Lord
           mercifully
           passing
           over
           our
           many
           corruptions
           :
           but
           this
           will
           no
           way
           give
           allowance
           to
           the
           many
           grosse
           corruptions
           ,
           and
           defects
           which
           cleaved
           to
           our
           standings
           ,
           and
           administrations
           ,
           nor
           to
           the
           continuance
           of
           any
           in
           such
           corruptions
           after
           the
           discovery
           thereof
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             As
             for
             the
             assumption
             ,
             that
             Pastors
             and
             Teachers
             are
             limited
             to
             a
             particular
             Church
             or
             society
             ,
             but
             that
             flock
             is
             not
             ever
             one
             congregationall
             assembly
             meeting
             in
             one
             place
             ,
             neither
             the
             bond
             so
             straight
             ,
             whereby
             they
             are
             tyed
             to
             that
             one
             society
             that
             they
             may
             not
             upon
             occasion
             performe
             some
             ministeriall
             act
             of
             office
             in
             another
             congregation
             ,
             or
             to
             them
             that
             bee
             not
             set
             members
             of
             their
             proper
             assembly
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           For
           clearing
           of
           the
           the
           assumption
           ,
           that
           wee
           may
           give
           the
           more
           distinct
           answer
           ,
           wee
           shall
           take
           leave
           to
           explicate
           our selves
           concerning
           the
           limitation
           of
           the
           Ministery
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           which
           it
           is
           like
           they
           who
           drew
           up
           the
           answer
           had
           formerly
           done
           ,
           had
           the
           times
           then
           been
           as
           criticall
           as
           they
           are
           growne
           since
           .
        
         
           1
           ▪
           When
           we
           say
           the
           Ministery
           is
           limited
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           wee
           doe
           not
           so
           limit
           it
           to
           a
           Congregation
           under
           her
           owne
           Presbytery
           ,
           as
           to
           exclude
           from
           communion
           in
           the
           seales
           ,
           many
           Congregations
           standing
           under
           one
           common
           Presbytery
           ,
           as
           wee
           have
           formerly
           said
           ,
           we
           honour
           the
           reformed
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           Jesus
           ,
           and
           the
           godly
           members
           thereof
           .
        
         
           2
           ▪
           When
           wee
           say
           the
           seales
           are
           limited
           to
           a
           particular
           Church
           or
           Congregation
           because
           the
           Ministery
           is
           so
           limited
           ;
           our
           meaning
           is
           not
           of
           that
           congregation
           onely
           whereof
           the
           Ministry
           is
           ,
           but
           of
           any
           Congregation
           in
           generall
           .
        
         
           3
           ▪
           When
           wee
           say
           that
           where
           a
           Minister
           hath
           no
           power
           ,
           he
           may
           not
           do
           an
           act
           of
           power
           ,
           this
           is
           to
           be
           so
           understood
           ,
           that
           hee
           cannot
           performe
           such
           an
           act
           ,
           as
           an
           Officer
           over
           them
           or
           unto
           them
           as
           to
           his
           proper
           flock
           ,
           the
           office
           being
           (
           as
           wee
           said
           )
           founded
           in
           the
           relation
           betweene
           the
           Church
           and
           the
           Officer
           ,
           such
           a
           stated
           power
           as
           an
           Officer
           over
           his
           owne
           flocke
           ,
           hee
           hath
           not
           to
           those
           of
           other
           Congregations
           partaking
           in
           his
           owne
           Church
           ,
           or
           in
           any
           act
           of
           his
           Office
           in
           another
           Church
           ;
           yet
           an
           occasionall
           act
           of
           power
           ,
           or
           
             precaria
             potestas
          
           ,
           charitatively
           to
           put
           forth
           an
           act
           of
           
           his
           Office
           to
           those
           in
           an
           other
           church
           ,
           over
           whom
           he
           is
           no
           Officer
           ,
           wee
           see
           not
           but
           he
           may
           ;
           but
           then
           this
           act
           of
           power
           is
           not
           towards
           them
           as
           over
           his
           owne
           flocke
           ;
           for
           two
           things
           are
           cleare
           to
           us
           .
           1.
           
           That
           an
           Officer
           of
           one
           Church
           ,
           is
           no
           Officer
           over
           those
           of
           an
           other
           Church
           ,
           as
           not
           being
           his
           proper
           flocke
           ,
           for
           there
           being
           no
           Office
           of
           Pastour
           at
           large
           without
           power
           of
           Office
           ,
           and
           the
           power
           that
           a
           Pastour
           hath
           over
           others
           ,
           being
           by
           the
           election
           of
           those
           that
           chose
           him
           their
           Officer
           ,
           who
           thereby
           become
           his
           proper
           flocke
           ,
           hence
           he
           hath
           no
           power
           as
           an
           Officer
           over
           those
           of
           an
           other
           flock
           ,
           unlesse
           he
           should
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           .
        
         
           That
           such
           an
           officer
           may
           put
           forth
           acts
           of
           his
           office
           towards
           those
           that
           are
           not
           of
           his
           proper
           flock
           .
           
             E.
             g.
          
           A
           Minister
           
             ex
             officio
          
           ,
           &
           as
           a
           Pastor
           ,
           not
           barely
           as
           a
           gifted
           man
           only
           may
           preach
           for
           the
           gathering
           in
           of
           those
           that
           are
           out
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           for
           the
           edificaon
           of
           those
           that
           are
           within
           ,
           Ephe.
           4.
           11
           ,
           12.
           and
           yet
           these
           are
           not
           his
           proper
           flock
           ;
           it
           is
           the
           office
           of
           every
           Pastour
           to
           preach
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           the
           meanes
           of
           converting
           ,
           and
           therefore
           not
           onely
           to
           intend
           but
           to
           attend
           the
           conversion
           of
           men
           ,
           (
           especially
           in
           preaching
           to
           his
           owne
           Congregation
           )
           for
           Christ
           hath
           sheep
           ,
           (
           which
           are
           his
           flock
           )
           to
           bee
           gathered
           into
           his
           fold
           ,
           which
           are
           not
           the
           Ministers
           proper
           flock
           ,
           and
           the
           Pastour
           is
           the
           Minister
           of
           Christ
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           Pastour
           of
           his
           owne
           flock
           ,
           and
           therefore
           he
           is
           to
           intend
           their
           gathering
           in
           as
           well
           as
           the
           good
           of
           his
           owne
           flock
           .
        
         
           Againe
           ,
           as
           he
           hath
           the
           Keys
           of
           Office
           by
           preaching
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           to
           open
           the
           Kingdome
           of
           heaven
           to
           beleevers
           ,
           so
           also
           he
           may
           
             ex
             officio
          
           ,
           shut
           it
           against
           impenitent
           sinners
           and
           unbeleevers
           that
           reject
           his
           Doctrine
           ,
           
             Matth.
             16.
             19.
             
             Matth.
             10.
             14.
             
             Jer.
          
           1.
           10.
           and
           yet
           these
           are
           not
           of
           his
           proper
           flocke
           .
        
         
           Againe
           ,
           a
           Pastour
           may
           administer
           the
           Seales
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           an
           act
           of
           Office
           )
           to
           members
           of
           other
           Churches
           ,
           in
           his
           his
           owne
           Congregation
           ,
           (
           if
           they
           desire
           it
           )
           who
           yet
           are
           not
           his
           proper
           Flocke
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           a
           Deacon
           of
           one
           Church
           may
           performe
           an
           act
           of
           his
           Office
           occasionally
           to
           those
           out
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           or
           the
           poore
           of
           another
           Church
           ;
           yet
           be
           no
           Officer
           or
           Deacon
           of
           the
           other
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           't
           is
           here
           .
        
         
           To
           illustrate
           this
           ,
           A
           Captaine
           of
           a
           Band
           of
           Souldiers
           is
           an
           Officer
           onely
           over
           his
           owne
           Band
           ,
           but
           it
           's
           an
           act
           of
           his
           Office
           to
           subdue
           enemies
           ,
           and
           to
           bring
           in
           those
           that
           submit
           .
           A
           Steward
           is
           an
           officer
           over
           his
           Masters
           family
           ,
           not
           over
           others
           :
           yet
           it
           's
           an
           act
           of
           his
           Office
           to
           provide
           for
           the
           intertainment
           
           of
           Strangers
           that
           come
           to
           his
           Lords
           table
           .
        
         
           Thus
           far
           it
           is
           cleare
           :
           But
           now
           whether
           a
           Minister
           may
           administer
           the
           Seales
           in
           another
           Congregation
           ,
           is
           not
           so
           evident
           ,
           yet
           wee
           will
           not
           deny
           but
           that
           occasionally
           being
           called
           thereunto
           by
           the
           desire
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           hee
           may
           lawfully
           doe
           the
           same
           ,
           yet
           it
           's
           no
           foundation
           of
           a
           stated
           Presbytery
           out
           of
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           for
           in
           all
           such
           acts
           the
           Church
           still
           keepes
           her
           power
           in
           her
           owne
           hands
           ,
           while
           the
           Minister
           hath
           no
           authority
           ,
           nor
           can
           put
           forth
           any
           act
           of
           his
           Ministery
           ,
           but
           at
           her
           desire
           ,
           and
           according
           to
           her
           owne
           necessity
           ,
           neither
           doth
           this
           make
           a
           Minister
           a
           Pastour
           of
           the
           universall
           Church
           ,
           for
           pastorall
           Office
           consists
           in
           taking
           charge
           of
           a
           people
           ,
           and
           having
           power
           of
           authority
           to
           exercise
           the
           same
           towards
           his
           Church
           :
           But
           all
           that
           is
           said
           doth
           include
           neither
           of
           these
           ,
           nor
           doth
           it
           follow
           that
           because
           they
           may
           set
           up
           a
           Presbytery
           over
           themselves
           in
           the
           same
           Church
           ,
           that
           therefore
           they
           may
           combine
           &
           set
           up
           a
           Presbytery
           of
           many
           Churches
           ,
           the
           first
           being
           their
           duty
           injoyned
           by
           Christ
           ,
           not
           the
           other
           ;
           for
           it
           is
           necessary
           for
           them
           to
           have
           such
           amongst
           them
           as
           may
           ordinarily
           feed
           ,
           teach
           ,
           watch
           over
           them
           ,
           and
           rule
           them
           (
           the
           end
           of
           a
           Ministers
           Office
           )
           but
           it
           's
           not
           necessary
           so
           to
           submit
           to
           others
           ,
           who
           may
           finde
           worke
           enough
           to
           feed
           and
           rule
           their
           owne
           ,
           and
           therefore
           looke
           as
           it
           is
           not
           in
           the
           power
           of
           many
           Congregations
           to
           joyne
           together
           ,
           to
           set
           one
           Pastour
           over
           them
           successively
           to
           feed
           them
           ,
           (
           for
           so
           they
           make
           a
           Pluralist
           ,
           and
           the
           Bramble
           the
           King
           of
           trees
           )
           nor
           yet
           in
           their
           power
           to
           set
           up
           (
           as
           in
           the
           first
           ambitious
           time
           )
           a
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           with
           power
           over
           all
           singly
           ,
           but
           under
           all
           joyntly
           ,
           so
           neither
           is
           it
           in
           their
           power
           to
           set
           up
           many
           Pastours
           ,
           who
           by
           their
           plurality
           of
           votes
           may
           wholly
           drowne
           that
           power
           of
           their
           owne
           .
        
         
           Nor
           lastly
           doth
           it
           follow
           ,
           that
           if
           they
           may
           desire
           the
           benefit
           and
           exercise
           of
           an
           others
           Office
           occasionally
           ,
           that
           they
           may
           or
           should
           doe
           it
           constantly
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           because
           they
           may
           desire
           sundry
           Ministers
           to
           preach
           amongst
           them
           every
           Sabbath
           for
           a
           time
           in
           the
           want
           of
           Officers
           ,
           that
           therefore
           they
           should
           content
           themselves
           to
           live
           altogether
           without
           any
           of
           their
           owne
           .
        
         
           Now
           for
           application
           of
           these
           things
           to
           the
           assumption
           of
           our
           argument
           .
           Although
           a
           Pastour
           (
           in
           the
           sense
           explained
           )
           may
           put
           forth
           acts
           of
           Office
           in
           another
           Congregation
           ,
           or
           to
           others
           in
           his
           owne
           Congregation
           ,
           yet
           will
           it
           hence
           follow
           ,
           that
           a
           Minister
           may
           administer
           Seales
           to
           such
           as
           are
           of
           no
           Congregation
           ?
           which
           is
           now
           the
           question
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Now
           to
           remove
           those
           2013
           objections
           of
           Mr.
           Ball
           ,
           which
           onely
           reach
           the
           question
           in
           hand
           ,
           whereof
           the
           first
           is
           Reply
           the
           8.
           
           
             When
             ordinary
             Elders
             in
             the
             Primitive
             Church
             were
             to
             labour
             the
             comming
             of
             the
             Infidels
             to
             God
             ,
             these
             being
             converted
             were
             to
             bee
             baptized
             of
             the
             Elders
             ordinarily
             in
             the
             Cities
             ,
             though
             the
             number
             might
             bee
             so
             great
             as
             they
             could
             not
             well
             meet
             in
             one
             Congregation
             ,
             nor
             bee
             subject
             to
             the
             same
             Pastour
             :
             and
             therefore
             either
             the
             Pastours
             must
             Baptize
             them
             ,
             being
             no
             members
             ,
             or
             they
             must
             remaine
             without
             Baptisme
             till
             they
             grow
             into
             a
             body
             ,
             and
             choose
             Ministers
             to
             Baptize
             them
             ,
             which
             is
             contrary
             to
             all
             precedents
             in
             Scripture
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           There
           is
           a
           third
           way
           which
           is
           passed
           over
           ,
           that
           will
           ease
           the
           difficulty
           :
           viz.
           the
           Pastours
           might
           baptize
           them
           unto
           their
           owne
           Congregations
           so
           long
           as
           the
           numbers
           did
           not
           exceed
           beyond
           edification
           ,
           and
           then
           dividing
           their
           numbers
           ,
           might
           make
           divers
           Churches
           of
           one
           ,
           and
           they
           call
           Pastours
           over
           them
           ,
           and
           so
           wee
           see
           Act.
           2.
           they
           added
           3000.
           and
           after
           more
           ,
           till
           they
           were
           scattered
           :
           and
           when
           peace
           was
           restored
           ,
           Act.
           9.
           the
           Churches
           were
           not
           onely
           edified
           but
           multiplied
           ,
           Verse
           3.
           and
           so
           the
           consequence
           of
           your
           9.
           
           Reply
           is
           also
           taken
           away
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             There
             is
             no
             precept
             or
             example
             in
             Scripture
             warrants
             the
             admitting
             of
             set
             members
             of
             one
             Congregation
             to
             the
             Seales
             in
             another
             ,
             more
             then
             the
             admitting
             of
             approved
             Christians
             that
             are
             not
             set
             members
             ,
             The
             Pastour
             is
             no
             more
             the
             Pastour
             of
             the
             one
             then
             of
             the
             other
             ,
             neither
             of
             them
             set
             members
             ,
             and
             both
             of
             them
             may
             bee
             members
             for
             the
             time
             being
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           have
           before
           shewed
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           ,
           that
           which
           warrants
           the
           dispensing
           of
           the
           Seales
           to
           confederating
           beleevers
           ,
           as
           the
           way
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           and
           Rom.
           16.
           1.
           wee
           have
           a
           plaine
           example
           of
           orderly
           receiving
           the
           members
           of
           one
           Church
           to
           Communion
           in
           an
           other
           ,
           being
           recommended
           thereunto
           by
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           wee
           have
           not
           the
           like
           for
           any
           not
           in
           Church
           order
           at
           all
           ;
           and
           though
           there
           be
           a
           parity
           in
           respect
           of
           particular
           relation
           with
           that
           Pastour
           and
           flock
           ,
           yet
           that
           is
           a
           disparity
           in
           regard
           of
           immediate
           right
           that
           the
           one
           have
           to
           the
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           and
           priviledges
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           which
           the
           other
           have
           not
           ,
           being
           out
           of
           that
           order
           of
           Christ
           prescribed
           in
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           in
           which
           order
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           ,
           visible
           ordinances
           are
           to
           be
           dispensed
           ,
           as
           hath
           been
           proved
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             a
             Synod
             consisting
             of
             sundry
             members
             of
             particular
             Churches
             ,
             met
             together
             in
             the
             name
             of
             Christ
             about
             the
             common
             and
             publike
             affaires
             of
          
           
           
             the
             Churches
             shall
             joine
             together
             in
             prayer
             ,
             and
             Communion
             of
             the
             Supper
             ,
             we
             can
             see
             no
             ground
             to
             question
             it
             as
             unlawfull
             ,
             although
             that
             assembly
             bee
             no
             particular
             Congregation
             or
             Church
             ,
             hath
             no
             Pastour
             over
             them
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           That
           su●h
           an
           assembly
           may
           pray
           together
           is
           no
           question
           ,
           for
           every
           family
           may
           doe
           so
           :
           and
           that
           they
           may
           receive
           the
           Supper
           also
           in
           a
           right
           order
           ,
           wee
           deny
           not
           ,
           for
           meeting
           where
           there
           is
           a
           particular
           instituted
           Church
           ,
           they
           may
           have
           Communion
           therewith
           in
           the
           Supper
           ,
           being
           many
           as
           well
           as
           few
           ,
           but
           whether
           they
           may
           as
           a
           Church
           (
           being
           no
           politicall
           body
           ,
           but
           members
           of
           many
           Politicall
           Churches
           )
           administer
           Church
           ordinances
           proper
           to
           a
           Church
           ,
           wee
           would
           see
           some
           reasons
           before
           wee
           can
           judge
           it
           lawfull
           so
           to
           doe
           :
           for
           though
           some
           doe
           account
           such
           a
           Synod
           
             Ecclesia
             orta
          
           ;
           yet
           not
           properly
           such
           a
           Church
           as
           hath
           Ecclesiasticall
           power
           ,
           authority
           and
           priviledge
           belonging
           thereto
           :
           they
           may
           consult
           and
           doctrinally
           determine
           of
           cases
           of
           that
           assembly
           ,
           Acts
           15.
           but
           further
           to
           proceed
           ,
           we
           see
           no
           rule
           ,
           nor
           paterne
           .
           Besides
           ,
           if
           such
           an
           assembly
           of
           many
           Churches
           may
           administer
           Seales
           ,
           why
           may
           not
           any
           other
           assembly
           of
           Church
           members
           or
           Ministers
           doe
           the
           sam●
           ?
           and
           so
           this
           power
           will
           be
           carried
           without
           limitation
           ,
           we
           know
           not
           how
           far
           ,
           if
           they
           once
           depart
           from
           a
           particular
           Church
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           VIII
           .
           Consid
           .
           3.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             third
             consideration
             ,
             this
             whole
             reason
             as
             it
             is
             propounded
             makes
             onely
             against
             it selfe
             ;
             who
             ever
             thought
             that
             the
             Seales
             were
             not
             proper
             to
             confederates
             ,
             or
             the
             Church
             of
             God
             ;
             of
             old
             visible
             beleevers
             in
             the
             Covenant
             of
             grace
             were
             of
             the
             visible
             Church
             ,
             and
             in
             Church
             order
             according
             to
             the
             dispensation
             of
             those
             times
             ,
             though
             not
             joyned
             to
             the
             society
             of
             Abrahams
             family
             :
             to
             exclude
             Job
             ,
             Melchisedeck
             ,
             &c.
             because
             not
             of
             the
             visible
             Church
             ,
             is
             welnigh
             a
             contradiction
             ,
             and
             so
             to
             debarre
             known
             approved
             Christians
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           That
           this
           reason
           makes
           not
           against
           it self
           ,
           Mr.
           Ball
           himself
           hath
           cleared
           ,
           when
           he
           stated
           our
           consideration
           truely
           in
           the
           words
           following
           ,
           as
           will
           appeare
           ,
           however
           here
           he
           somewhat
           troubles
           the
           waters
           needlessely
           ,
           that
           the
           ground
           may
           not
           appeare
           ,
           for
           there
           is
           nothing
           in
           our
           answer
           which
           deny
           
             Melchisedech
             ,
             Job
             ,
             &c.
          
           to
           bee
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           according
           to
           the
           manner
           of
           those
           times
           ,
           
           indeed
           wee
           instance
           in
           them
           as
           persons
           under
           the
           covenant
           of
           grace
           ,
           not
           mentioning
           their
           membership
           in
           family
           Churches
           ,
           as
           being
           enough
           for
           our
           purpose
           ,
           if
           they
           had
           not
           right
           to
           Circumcision
           by
           vertue
           of
           their
           right
           in
           the
           covenant
           of
           grace
           ,
           except
           they
           joyned
           to
           the
           Church
           at
           first
           in
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           and
           so
           after
           to
           the
           same
           Church
           in
           Israel
           ;
           and
           the
           more
           speciall
           Church
           relation
           in
           Abrahams
           family
           was
           required
           to
           Circumcision
           ,
           the
           stronger
           is
           the
           force
           of
           our
           reason
           ,
           not
           the
           weaker
           .
           For
           so
           much
           the
           rather
           it
           followes
           ,
           that
           seales
           are
           not
           to
           bee
           dispensed
           to
           beleevers
           (
           as
           such
           )
           though
           visibly
           professing
           the
           faith
           ,
           except
           they
           joyne
           also
           to
           such
           a
           forme
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           ,
           to
           ,
           or
           in
           which
           the
           seales
           are
           instituted
           and
           given
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             true
             and
             proper
             meaning
             of
             this
             consideration
             is
             ,
             that
             as
             Circumcision
             ,
             and
             the
             Passeover
             were
             not
             to
             bee
             dispensed
             to
             all
             visible
             beleevers
             under
             the
             Covenant
             of
             grace
             ,
             but
             onely
             to
             such
             as
             were
             joyned
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             ,
             or
             the
             people
             of
             the
             God
             of
             Abraham
             ,
             no
             more
             may
             Baptisme
             ,
             and
             the
             Lords
             Supper
             be
             administred
             now
             to
             any
             beleevers
             ,
             unlesse
             they
             be
             joyned
             to
             some
             particular
             Congregation
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           These
           words
           rightly
           stating
           the
           consideration
           wee
           leave
           it
           to
           any
           indifferent
           reader
           to
           judge
           ,
           whether
           any
           way
           it
           make
           against
           it selfe
           ,
           or
           whether
           there
           was
           any
           cause
           first
           to
           darken
           it
           as
           was
           done
           in
           the
           former
           passage
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             strength
             of
             it
             stands
             in
             the
             parity
             betweene
             Circumcision
             and
             Baptisme
             ,
             but
             this
             parity
             is
             not
             found
             in
             every
             thing
             ,
             as
             your selves
             alledge
             .
             To
             unfold
             it
             more
             fully
             ,
             wee
             will
             consider
             three
             things
             .
             First
             ,
             wherein
             the
             Sacraments
             agree
             ,
             and
             wherein
             they
             differ
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           matters
           not
           in
           how
           many
           things
           the
           Sacraments
           differ
           ,
           so
           they
           agree
           in
           the
           thing
           questioned
           ,
           and
           though
           wee
           might
           raise
           Disputes
           and
           Queries
           about
           some
           particulars
           in
           this
           large
           discourse
           upon
           this
           first
           head
           ,
           yet
           seeing
           here
           is
           a
           grant
           of
           the
           parity
           in
           the
           point
           now
           questioned
           ,
           viz.
           Concerning
           the
           persons
           to
           whom
           Circumcision
           and
           Baptisme
           doe
           belong
           ,
           wee
           shall
           take
           what
           is
           granted
           ,
           and
           leave
           the
           rest
           .
           For
           thus
           it
           is
           said
           ,
           
             Circumcision
             and
             Baptisme
             are
             both
             Sacraments
             of
             Divine
             institution
             ,
             and
             so
             they
             agree
             in
             substance
             of
             the
             things
             signified
             ,
             the
             persons
             to
             whom
             they
             are
             to
             be
             administred
             ,
             and
             the
             order
             of
             administration
             ,
             if
             the
             right
             proportion
             be
             observed
             .
             Now
             that
             we
             ●●ld
             the
             right
             proportion
             in
             the
             persons
             ,
             may
             appeare
             ,
          
        
         
           First
           ,
           in
           that
           (
           as
           was
           granted
           )
           Circumcision
           sealed
           the
           entrance
           into
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           but
           this
           Covenant
           was
           not
           simply
           ,
           and
           onely
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           ;
           but
           that
           whole
           Covenant
           ,
           that
           was
           made
           
           with
           Abraham
           ,
           whereby
           on
           Gods
           part
           they
           were
           assured
           of
           many
           speciall
           blessings
           ,
           (
           whereof
           Lot
           ,
           and
           others
           not
           in
           this
           Covenant
           with
           Abraham
           ,
           were
           not
           capable
           )
           and
           whereby
           Abraham
           his
           seed
           ,
           and
           family
           were
           bound
           for
           their
           part
           to
           be
           a
           people
           to
           God
           ,
           and
           to
           observe
           this
           signe
           of
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           which
           others
           in
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           were
           not
           bound
           to
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           granted
           )
           it
           was
           Abraham
           ,
           and
           his
           houshold
           ,
           and
           the
           seed
           of
           beleeving
           Jewes
           that
           were
           the
           persons
           to
           bee
           Circumcised
           ,
           and
           therefore
           not
           visible
           beleevers
           ,
           (
           as
           such
           )
           for
           then
           Lot
           had
           been
           included
           :
           so
           by
           right
           proportion
           not
           all
           visible
           beleevers
           as
           such
           ,
           but
           such
           as
           with
           Abraham
           ,
           and
           his
           family
           are
           in
           visible
           Covenant
           to
           bee
           the
           people
           of
           God
           according
           to
           the
           institution
           of
           Churches
           when
           ,
           and
           to
           which
           the
           seale
           of
           Baptisme
           is
           given
           ;
           and
           therefore
           as
           all
           family
           Churches
           but
           Abrahams
           being
           in
           a
           new
           forme
           of
           a
           Church
           were
           excluded
           ,
           so
           much
           more
           such
           as
           are
           in
           no
           visible
           constituted
           Church
           at
           all
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             As
             for
             the
             proposition
             it selfe
             ,
             certaine
             it
             is
             ,
             Circumcision
             and
             the
             Passeover
             were
             to
             bee
             administred
             onely
             to
             the
             visible
             members
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
          
           i.
           e.
           
             to
             men
             in
             Covenant
             professing
             the
             true
             faith
             ,
             but
             that
             in
             Abrahams
             time
             none
             were
             members
             of
             the
             visible
             Church
             ,
             which
             joyned
             not
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             ,
             wee
             have
             not
             learned
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           proposition
           wee
           see
           is
           granted
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           obscured
           divers
           wayes
           ,
           to
           which
           wee
           answer
           :
           First
           ,
           whereas
           it
           is
           said
           these
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           were
           men
           in
           Covenant
           ,
           professing
           the
           true
           faith
           .
           True
           ,
           but
           where
           ?
           not
           in
           any
           place
           ,
           but
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           and
           so
           after
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           Israel
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           what
           faith
           ?
           not
           onely
           faith
           in
           the
           Messiah
           for
           life
           ,
           and
           salvation
           ,
           but
           withall
           faith
           in
           the
           promises
           made
           to
           Abraham
           ,
           and
           his
           seed
           with
           subjection
           to
           the
           visible
           worship
           of
           God
           in
           that
           Church
           ,
           and
           to
           circumcision
           in
           particular
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           that
           there
           were
           no
           others
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           besides
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           is
           not
           said
           ,
           but
           being
           so
           it
           strengthens
           the
           argument
           ,
           as
           was
           shewed
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             first
             institution
             of
             Circumcision
             God
             gave
             it
             to
             Abraham
             ,
             as
             the
             seale
             of
             the
             Covenant
             formerly
             made
             with
             him
             ,
             but
             of
             any
             Church
             Covenant
             ,
             whereinto
             Abrahams
             family
             should
             enter
             ,
             we
             read
             not
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Whether
           Circumcision
           sealed
           any
           new
           Covenant
           made
           with
           
             Abraham
             ,
             Gen.
          
           17.
           or
           that
           before
           ,
           Gen.
           15.
           wee
           will
           not
           contend
           ,
           neither
           is
           it
           materiall
           ,
           bee
           it
           the
           same
           covenant
           hee
           entred
           into
           before
           for
           substance
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           evident
           ,
           1
           That
           this
           covenant
           was
           no●
           simply
           and
           onely
           the
           covenant
           of
           grace
           ,
           but
           had
           many
           peculiar
           
           blessings
           belonging
           to
           Abraham
           ,
           and
           his
           posterity
           ,
           and
           family
           contained
           in
           it
           .
           Gen.
           12.
           and
           15.
           2
           
           It
           is
           very
           considerable
           that
           God
           made
           this
           Covenant
           with
           Abraham
           ,
           when
           hee
           cal'd
           him
           out
           of
           that
           corrupt
           state
           of
           the
           Church
           in
           Ebers
           family
           to
           worship
           God
           more
           purely
           according
           to
           his
           institutions
           ,
           Gen.
           12.
           1.
           with
           Josh
           .
           24.
           2.
           
           Thirdly
           ,
           this
           covenant
           ,
           Gen.
           17.
           is
           more
           explicate
           ,
           and
           full
           then
           before
           ,
           and
           especially
           in
           that
           promise
           ,
           which
           most
           properly
           concernes
           Church
           covenant
           ,
           viz.
           that
           God
           would
           take
           Abraham
           and
           his
           seed
           into
           covenant
           with
           himselfe
           ,
           even
           an
           everlasting
           covenant
           to
           be
           a
           God
           unto
           them
           ,
           Vers
           .
           7.
           and
           this
           in
           a
           speciall
           manner
           ▪
           is
           that
           ,
           which
           the
           Lord
           saith
           hee
           would
           now
           establish
           betweene
           Abraham
           and
           himselfe
           ,
           viz.
           by
           this
           signe
           of
           the
           covenant
           ,
           Vers
           .
           9
           ,
           10
           ,
           11.
           
           Fourthly
           ,
           this
           is
           the
           very
           covenant
           ,
           which
           the
           Lord
           renewed
           with
           Abrahams
           seed
           afterward
           ,
           when
           hee
           established
           them
           to
           bee
           a
           Church
           or
           people
           to
           himselfe
           ,
           as
           is
           evident
           ,
           Deut.
           29.
           12
           ,
           13.
           this
           the
           Lord
           is
           said
           oft
           to
           remember
           ,
           viz.
           to
           remember
           his
           covenant
           with
           Abraham
           ,
           when
           hee
           visited
           his
           seed
           with
           any
           mercy
           :
           
             Exod.
             6.
             5
             ,
             6
             ,
             7
             ,
             8.
             
             Psal
             .
          
           105.
           8
           ,
           9.
           and
           therefore
           it
           must
           needs
           bee
           a
           Church
           covenant
           .
           Fiftly
           ,
           as
           Gen.
           17.
           the
           Lord
           instituted
           a
           visible
           token
           ,
           and
           seale
           of
           this
           covenant
           ,
           so
           hee
           strictly
           enjoyned
           the
           observation
           of
           the
           same
           in
           all
           the
           seed
           and
           family
           of
           Abraham
           ,
           and
           that
           in
           all
           their
           generations
           :
           all
           which
           things
           especially
           joyntly
           considered
           make
           it
           evident
           ,
           that
           Abraham
           and
           his
           were
           not
           onely
           a
           people
           ,
           but
           
             established
             a
             people
          
           to
           God
           in
           a
           Church
           covenant
           ,
           and
           that
           the
           same
           covenant
           ,
           which
           was
           the
           foundation
           of
           the
           nationall
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           that
           was
           after
           in
           his
           posterity
           ,
           and
           to
           this
           covenant
           the
           seale
           of
           Circumcision
           was
           added
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Melchisedeck
             ,
             Lot
             ,
             Job
             might
             bee
             circumcised
             ,
             though
             wee
             reade
             not
             of
             it
             ,
             (
             as
             wee
             read
             not
             that
             John
             Baptist
             ,
             or
             the
             Apostles
             were
             baptized
             )
             or
             if
             they
             were
             not
             circumcised
             ,
             it
             may
             bee
             that
             institution
             was
             not
             knowne
             to
             them
             ,
             or
             they
             were
             not
             required
             to
             joyne
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             ,
             and
             if
             they
             had
             ,
             they
             should
             have
             transgressed
             ,
             and
             so
             the
             reason
             was
             not
             ,
             because
             they
             were
             not
             in
             Church
             order
             ,
             but
             because
             Circumcision
             was
             appropriated
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             in
             some
             peculiar
             respects
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Though
           wee
           reade
           not
           of
           the
           administration
           of
           Baptisme
           to
           John
           Baptist
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           many
           others
           ,
           yet
           wee
           reade
           of
           a
           rule
           that
           required
           it
           of
           them
           ,
           and
           it
           was
           a
           part
           of
           that
           righteousnesse
           ,
           of
           which
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           saith
           to
           John
           ,
           Thus
           it
           becommeth
           us
           to
           fulfill
           all
           righteousnesse
           ,
           Matth.
           3.
           15.
           not
           for
           the
           institution
           
           of
           Circumcision
           did
           bind
           
             Lot
             ,
             Job
             ,
             &c.
          
           yet
           that
           they
           were
           forbidden
           to
           joyne
           to
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           and
           so
           bee
           circumcised
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           say
           ;
           seeing
           afterwards
           Proselytes
           were
           reecived
           into
           the
           same
           Covenant
           and
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           circumcised
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           it
           was
           so
           appropriated
           to
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           as
           that
           it
           was
           unlawfull
           for
           them
           to
           joyne
           to
           Abrahams
           covenant
           ,
           and
           be
           circumcised
           ,
           this
           is
           more
           then
           can
           bee
           shewed
           ;
           or
           if
           
             Lot
             ,
             Melchisedeck
             ,
             Job
          
           were
           excluded
           ,
           yet
           out
           of
           question
           Abraham
           might
           and
           did
           enlarge
           his
           family
           ,
           and
           so
           might
           take
           in
           proselytes
           visible
           beleevers
           in
           the
           covenant
           of
           grace
           ,
           and
           circumcise
           them
           ,
           and
           so
           still
           the
           appropriating
           of
           circumcision
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           Covenant
           of
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           doth
           not
           weaken
           ,
           but
           strengthen
           the
           argument
           ,
           in
           as
           much
           as
           no
           visible
           beleever
           in
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           might
           partake
           of
           the
           seale
           but
           by
           joyning
           in
           visible
           covenant
           with
           that
           Church
           to
           which
           it
           was
           given
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           suppose
           
             Job
             ,
             Lot
             ,
             &c.
          
           and
           their
           families
           were
           circumcised
           ,
           (
           as
           Junius
           alledgeth
           Jerome
           for
           it
           )
           yet
           how
           will
           it
           appeare
           it
           was
           not
           by
           taking
           hold
           of
           the
           Covenant
           of
           Abraham
           ,
           to
           which
           Circumcision
           was
           applyed
           ?
           yet
           it
           seemes
           more
           probable
           ,
           that
           Lot
           ,
           and
           other
           families
           in
           Abrahams
           time
           were
           not
           partakers
           thereof
           ,
           God
           intending
           (
           as
           the
           effect
           shewes
           )
           not
           to
           establish
           them
           nor
           theirs
           to
           bee
           his
           people
           ,
           as
           by
           Circumcision
           hee
           established
           Abraham
           and
           his
           seed
           ;
           as
           for
           Iob
           ,
           if
           hee
           were
           of
           Abrahams
           seed
           ,
           and
           had
           Circumcision
           hereditarily
           
             à
             materno
             ,
             paternoque
             sanguine
          
           ,
           (
           as
           some
           thinke
           )
           yet
           this
           makes
           nothing
           against
           the
           argument
           wee
           have
           now
           in
           hand
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           
             After
             the
             Church
             of
             the
             Iewes
             was
             constituted
             (
             when
             wee
             cannot
             imagine
             any
             Church
             amongst
             the
             Gentiles
             )
             wee
             finde
             none
             must
             bee
             admitted
             to
             the
             Passeover
             that
             was
             not
             circumcised
             ,
             but
             nothing
             was
             required
             of
             a
             stranger
             ,
             but
             that
             hee
             professe
             the
             true
             faith
             ,
             and
             avouch
             the
             God
             of
             Abraham
             to
             be
             his
             God
             ,
             which
             must
             be
             done
             before
             hee
             could
             be
             reputed
             a
             visible
             beleever
             ,
             or
             under
             the
             covenant
             of
             Grace
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           If
           any
           doubtfulnesse
           can
           bee
           raised
           about
           the
           Church
           in
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           yet
           the
           case
           is
           so
           cleare
           in
           the
           following
           story
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           you
           must
           needs
           grant
           the
           proposition
           ,
           (
           as
           you
           do
           )
           and
           the
           Church
           of
           the
           Jewes
           is
           still
           but
           the
           same
           Church
           ,
           that
           was
           in
           Abrahams
           house
           ,
           and
           the
           covenant
           the
           same
           ,
           for
           Gen.
           17.
           
           God
           established
           the
           Covenant
           with
           him
           and
           his
           seed
           for
           an
           everlasting
           Covenant
           to
           be
           a
           God
           unto
           them
           ;
           and
           in
           Egypt
           the
           Lord
           challenges
           them
           as
           his
           owne
           ,
           his
           first
           borne
           ,
           &c.
           and
           therefore
           
           there
           is
           the
           same
           reason
           of
           circumcision
           ,
           first
           and
           last
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           Persons
           ,
           that
           had
           right
           unto
           it
           ,
           but
           say
           you
           nothing
           was
           required
           to
           circumcision
           ,
           but
           to
           professe
           the
           faith
           .
           But
           we
           demand
           first
           ,
           What
           was
           it
           to
           avouch
           the
           God
           of
           Abrabam
           to
           be
           his
           God
           ?
           Was
           it
           not
           to
           subject
           himselfe
           to
           all
           the
           Statutes
           ,
           Commandements
           ,
           and
           judgements
           of
           God
           in
           his
           Church
           to
           walke
           in
           them
           ?
           as
           ▪
           is
           cleare
           :
           Deut.
           26.
           17.
           
           Was
           there
           not
           the
           same
           Law
           for
           the
           stranger
           ,
           and
           the
           home-borne
           ?
           Secondly
           ,
           Where
           must
           they
           professe
           this
           faith
           ,
           and
           avouch
           this
           God
           ?
           Was
           it
           in
           any
           place
           where
           they
           dwelt
           ,
           and
           so
           might
           they
           circumcise
           themselves
           ?
           must
           not
           this
           bee
           done
           amongst
           ,
           and
           before
           the
           people
           of
           God
           in
           his
           visible
           Church
           ?
           whence
           such
           were
           called
           Proselytes
           ,
           and
           reckoned
           of
           the
           Common-wealth
           of
           Israel
           ,
           Esay
           56.
           3
           ,
           4
           ,
           5
           ,
           6.
           
           And
           is
           not
           all
           this
           to
           joyne
           themselves
           to
           the
           visible
           instituted
           Church
           before
           they
           were
           circumcised
           ?
           Lastly
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           true
           that
           no
           man
           could
           be
           reputed
           a
           visible
           beleever
           before
           hee
           did
           all
           this
           ,
           That
           which
           followes
           pag.
           40.
           is
           answered
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             Lot
             ,
             Job
             ,
             &c.
             were
             not
             circumcised
             ,
             there
             is
             not
             the
             like
             reason
             for
             Circumcision
             ,
             and
             baptisme
             in
             this
             particular
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           force
           of
           the
           consideration
           doth
           not
           depend
           upon
           the
           likenesse
           of
           reason
           betweene
           the
           persons
           to
           be
           circumcised
           and
           baptized
           in
           every
           respect
           ,
           but
           in
           this
           ,
           that
           as
           Circumcision
           and
           the
           Passeover
           were
           given
           onely
           to
           visible
           members
           of
           that
           instituted
           visible
           Church
           ,
           and
           therefore
           so
           in
           this
           case
           of
           baptisme
           ,
           and
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           :
           now
           therefore
           if
           you
           could
           alledge
           many
           more
           different
           reasons
           betweene
           
             Lot
             ,
             Job
             ,
             &c.
          
           that
           were
           not
           circumcised
           ,
           and
           those
           not
           to
           bee
           baptized
           ,
           it
           would
           little
           availe
           in
           the
           case
           ,
           but
           wee
           shall
           consider
           your
           differences
           particularly
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             First
             ,
             If
             ever
             circumcision
             was
             appropriated
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             ,
             and
             might
             not
             be
             communicated
             to
             other
             visible
             beleevers
             ,
             it
             was
             in
             the
             first
             institution
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             first
             institution
             of
             baptisme
             ,
             it
             was
             not
             so
             observed
             ,
             that
             beleevers
             should
             bee
             gathered
             into
             a
             Christian
             Church
             ,
             and
             then
             baptized
             .
             Mat.
             3.
             7.
             
             John
             baptized
             such
             as
             came
             to
             him
             ,
             confessing
             their
             sinnes
             ,
             the
             Apostles
             baptized
             Disciples
             ,
             such
             as
             gladly
             received
             their
             doctrine
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           There
           is
           no
           such
           disparity
           in
           this
           as
           is
           objected
           ,
           for
           Abrahams
           family
           was
           in
           Covenant
           before
           Circumcision
           was
           given
           ,
           onely
           the
           Covenant
           was
           more
           fully
           explained
           and
           confirmed
           :
           and
           so
           when
           John
           baptized
           ,
           hee
           baptized
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Jewes
           
           Church
           in
           Covenant
           before
           ,
           to
           whom
           hee
           was
           sent
           to
           turne
           the
           heart
           of
           the
           fathers
           to
           the
           children
           ,
           &c.
           and
           to
           prepare
           a
           people
           for
           the
           Lord
           ,
           and
           baptisme
           was
           then
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           the
           Jewes
           with
           reference
           to
           so
           many
           as
           would
           receive
           the
           doctrine
           of
           John
           ,
           concerning
           repentance
           and
           remission
           of
           sinnes
           by
           faith
           in
           the
           Messiah
           now
           come
           amongst
           them
           ,
           and
           therefore
           Christ
           himselfe
           ,
           and
           his
           Disciples
           remained
           yet
           members
           of
           that
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           Though
           the
           visible
           Kingdome
           of
           Christ
           was
           not
           yet
           to
           bee
           erected
           in
           Christian
           Churches
           ,
           till
           after
           Christs
           death
           and
           Resurrection
           ,
           whereby
           hee
           did
           put
           an
           end
           to
           the
           Jewish
           worship
           ,
           and
           therefore
           no
           Christian
           Churches
           could
           bee
           gathered
           by
           John
           ,
           yet
           there
           was
           a
           middle
           state
           of
           a
           people
           prepared
           for
           the
           Lord
           ,
           gathered
           out
           of
           the
           Jewish
           Church
           ,
           which
           according
           to
           that
           state
           were
           made
           the
           Disciples
           of
           John
           ,
           by
           solemne
           profession
           of
           their
           repentance
           or
           conversion
           to
           God
           ,
           and
           acknowledgement
           of
           Christ
           the
           Lambe
           of
           God
           already
           come
           ,
           to
           whom
           the
           seale
           of
           baptisme
           was
           appropriated
           .
           As
           for
           the
           instances
           ,
           
             Act.
             2.
             37.
             
             &c.
          
           and
           8.
           37.
           and
           10.
           47
           ,
           48.
           they
           are
           spoken
           to
           before
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             Lot
             ,
             Job
             ,
             &c.
             were
             not
             bound
             to
             joyne
             to
             Abrahams
             family
             ,
             and
             bee
             circumcised
             ,
             but
             now
             all
             visible
             beleevers
             are
             bound
             to
             seeke
             baptisme
             in
             an
             holy
             manner
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           This
           difference
           makes
           little
           to
           the
           point
           in
           hand
           ,
           it
           is
           enough
           ,
           that
           all
           that
           would
           be
           circumcised
           were
           bound
           to
           joyne
           to
           that
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           now
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           in
           after
           times
           no
           doubt
           every
           true
           proselyte
           fearing
           God
           was
           bound
           to
           joyne
           to
           that
           church
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           now
           ;
           and
           if
           now
           all
           visible
           beleevers
           be
           bound
           to
           professe
           their
           faith
           ,
           and
           seek
           baptisme
           in
           an
           holy
           manner
           ,
           why
           should
           they
           not
           bee
           bound
           to
           joyne
           to
           some
           visible
           Church
           ,
           and
           seeke
           it
           there
           ,
           (
           as
           well
           as
           of
           old
           ?
           )
           yea
           where
           should
           they
           professe
           their
           faith
           ,
           but
           in
           the
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           as
           the
           Proselytes
           of
           old
           did
           ?
        
         
           Your
           third
           difference
           is
           oft
           pressed
           ,
           and
           answered
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fourthly
           ,
           
             If
             Circumcision
             bee
             appropriated
             to
             the
             family
             of
             Abraham
             ,
             it
             is
             because
             that
             Covenant
             was
             peculiar
             to
             Abrahams
             posterity
             ,
             namely
             ,
             that
             Christ
             should
             come
             of
             Isaac
             ,
             but
             baptisme
             is
             the
             Seale
             of
             the
             Covenant
             of
             Grace
             without
             peculiarity
             or
             respect
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           difference
           is
           of
           little
           moment
           ,
           neither
           will
           it
           hold
           ,
           for
           first
           ,
           though
           that
           ,
           and
           other
           promises
           had
           a
           speciall
           eye
           to
           Abrahams
           
           family
           ,
           yet
           Circumcision
           sealed
           the
           righteousnesse
           of
           faith
           ,
           Rom.
           4.
           to
           them
           being
           in
           visible
           Covenant
           with
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           baptisme
           now
           doth
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           this
           peculiar
           respect
           you
           speake
           of
           ,
           no
           way
           hindereth
           the
           joyning
           of
           many
           servants
           to
           Abrahams
           family
           ,
           and
           Covenant
           ,
           nor
           any
           proselytes
           to
           the
           Church
           afterward
           of
           any
           nation
           ,
           no
           more
           then
           now
           in
           respect
           of
           baptisme
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           the
           true
           reason
           was
           ,
           because
           although
           the
           Covenant
           was
           made
           with
           others
           ,
           yet
           not
           established
           ,
           nor
           enlarged
           towards
           them
           ;
           and
           hence
           if
           they
           would
           partake
           of
           such
           a
           Covenant
           ,
           they
           must
           joyne
           in
           this
           ;
           which
           also
           is
           the
           glory
           of
           the
           rich
           grace
           of
           Christ
           shining
           forth
           in
           Church-Covenant
           with
           all
           that
           will
           become
           a
           people
           to
           him
           to
           this
           day
           .
        
         
           The
           first
           difference
           is
           answered
           in
           the
           first
           and
           second
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           IX
           .
           Consid
           .
           4.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             fourth
             consideration
             ,
             first
             ,
             Men
             are
             capable
             of
             Church
             censures
             ,
             either
             as
             having
             power
             to
             dispense
             them
             :
             or
             as
             being
             subject
             unto
             them
             ,
             &c.
             
             In
             the
             second
             sense
             ,
             many
             are
             capable
             of
             Church
             priviledges
             ,
             who
             are
             not
             subject
             to
             Church
             censures
             :
             as
             the
             children
             of
             Christian
             Parents
             are
             capable
             of
             baptisme
             ,
             and
             approved
             members
             of
             any
             true
             Church
             are
             capable
             of
             Seales
             in
             other
             Congregations
             amongst
             you
             ,
             who
             are
             not
             subject
             to
             the
             censures
             of
             the
             other
             Congregation
             ,
             spiritual
             Communion
             in
             publike
             prayer
             ,
             whereof
             visible
             beleivers
             (
             not
             in
             Church
             order
             )
             are
             capable
             ,
             but
             not
             subject
             to
             common
             censures
             in
             your
             sense
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           distinction
           is
           needlesse
           :
           our
           meaning
           is
           plaine
           in
           the
           second
           sense
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           say
           nothing
           to
           what
           is
           objected
           against
           the
           first
           .
           To
           the
           instances
           objected
           against
           the
           proposition
           in
           the
           second
           sense
           ,
           wee
           answer
           first
           concerning
           the
           Infants
           of
           Church-members
           ,
           they
           are
           subject
           to
           censures
           ,
           whensoever
           they
           offend
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           others
           are
           ,
           though
           so
           long
           as
           they
           live
           innocently
           ,
           they
           need
           them
           not
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           Members
           of
           any
           true
           visible
           Church
           are
           subject
           ,
           and
           so
           capable
           of
           censure
           ,
           (
           though
           not
           in
           another
           Church
           )
           which
           is
           not
           in
           in
           the
           proposition
           .
           2
           ▪
           Also
           they
           are
           capable
           of
           censures
           mediately
           by
           and
           in
           that
           other
           Church
           ,
           if
           they
           there
           offend
           :
           for
           that
           Church
           may
           admonish
           and
           prosecute
           the
           admonition
           in
           the
           Church
           to
           which
           they
           belong
           ,
           and
           refuse
           society
           with
           them
           ,
           if
           they
           repent
           not
           ,
           which
           cannot
           bee
           said
           of
           such
           as
           are
           
           not
           members
           of
           any
           visible
           Church
           ,
           who
           cannot
           be
           prosecuted
           to
           excommunication
           in
           any
           place
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           Publike
           prayers
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           though
           they
           bee
           an
           ordinance
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           the
           Church
           have
           a
           speciall
           Communion
           in
           them
           ,
           in
           which
           respect
           others
           do
           not
           share
           ,
           yet
           they
           are
           not
           a
           priviledge
           or
           peculiar
           ordinance
           ,
           wherein
           none
           but
           the
           Church
           may
           share
           ,
           for
           an
           Heathen
           or
           Infidel
           may
           hear
           the
           word
           and
           joyne
           in
           the
           prayers
           ,
           being
           
             cultus
             naturalis
          
           ,
           saying
           Amen
           unto
           the
           same
           ;
           which
           cannot
           be
           said
           of
           seales
           and
           censures
           ,
           being
           
             cultus
             institutus
          
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             A
             Person
             baptized
             ,
             is
             not
             baptized
             into
             that
             particular
             Congregation
             onely
             ,
             but
             into
             all
             Churches
             ,
             and
             in
             every
             particular
             ▪
             Church
             hath
             all
             the
             priviledges
             of
             a
             baptized
             person
             ,
             and
             so
             to
             be
             esteemed
             of
             them
             .
             Now
             the
             priviledge
             of
             the
             baptized
             person
             ,
             walking
             in
             the
             truth
             ,
             and
             able
             to
             examine
             himselfe
             ,
             is
             to
             bee
             admitted
             to
             the
             Lords
             Supper
             ,
             as
             all
             circumcised
             persons
             had
             right
             thereby
             to
             eate
             the
             Passeover
             in
             any
             society
             ,
             where
             God
             should
             choose
             to
             put
             his
             name
             there
             ,
             Exod.
             4.
             47.
             
             Deut.
          
           16.
           1
           ,
           1.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           seemeth
           to
           touch
           the
           question
           it selfe
           ,
           rather
           then
           the
           proposition
           of
           this
           fourth
           consideration
           :
           but
           wee
           shall
           answer
           to
           it
           as
           it
           stands
           .
           1.
           
           Here
           you
           grant
           that
           a
           person
           baptized
           ,
           is
           baptized
           unto
           a
           particular
           Congregation
           :
           which
           wee
           accept
           as
           a
           yeelding
           of
           the
           question
           unawares
           .
           2.
           
           If
           you
           meane
           ,
           that
           such
           hath
           a
           liberty
           of
           Communion
           in
           a
           way
           of
           brotherly
           love
           in
           all
           Churches
           where
           he
           comes
           ,
           wee
           grant
           ,
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           nothing
           in
           him
           justly
           hinder
           )
           but
           if
           you
           meane
           that
           hee
           is
           baptized
           into
           all
           Churches
           ,
           so
           as
           to
           challenge
           a
           right
           of
           Membership
           in
           them
           all
           ,
           wee
           deny
           it
           ,
           as
           a
           position
           that
           would
           take
           away
           all
           distinction
           of
           Churches
           ,
           as
           wee
           have
           formerly
           shewed
           .
           3.
           
           We
           deny
           that
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           is
           the
           priviledge
           of
           a
           baptized
           person
           ,
           able
           to
           examine
           himself
           ,
           &
           walking
           in
           the
           truth
           as
           a
           baptized
           person
           ,
           for
           then
           a
           Papist
           converted
           to
           the
           truth
           ,
           able
           to
           examine
           himselfe
           ,
           hath
           a
           right
           to
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           in
           every
           Church
           ,
           before
           he
           make
           any
           profession
           of
           his
           conversion
           ,
           and
           faith
           in
           any
           particular
           Church
           ,
           for
           hee
           may
           bee
           such
           a
           baptized
           person
           .
           And
           we
           may
           say
           the
           like
           of
           an
           excommunicate
           penitent
           .
           4.
           
           We
           grant
           that
           a
           baptized
           person
           is
           not
           onely
           baptized
           in
           to
           that
           particular
           Church
           whereof
           hee
           was
           first
           a
           member
           :
           For
           if
           it
           bee
           a
           seale
           of
           his
           initiation
           into
           that
           particular
           Church
           onely
           ;
           then
           he
           must
           bee
           rebaptized
           as
           oft
           as
           hee
           enters
           into
           another
           ,
           but
           hee
           is
           baptized
           (
           in
           the
           sense
           formerly
           shewed
           )
           into
           the
           whole
           mysticall
           Body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           hence
           hath
           
             jus
             ad
             rem
          
           ,
           or
           a
           remote
           right
           
           unto
           the
           priviledges
           of
           the
           Church
           every
           where
           ,
           but
           that
           therefore
           he
           hath
           immediate
           right
           to
           the
           fruition
           of
           all
           ,
           when
           he
           is
           severed
           from
           that
           particular
           church
           wherein
           he
           was
           baptized
           ,
           that
           follows
           not
           :
           for
           as
           he
           had
           this
           latter
           right
           in
           the
           first
           Church
           wherein
           hee
           was
           baptized
           ,
           so
           he
           must
           have
           it
           in
           any
           of
           the
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           afterward
           ;
           now
           if
           in
           the
           first
           Church
           the
           fruition
           of
           ordinances
           came
           by
           orderly
           joyning
           ▪
           to
           it
           :
           so
           it
           must
           be
           afterward
           ,
           for
           as
           wee
           said
           before
           ,
           such
           as
           the
           communion
           is
           ,
           such
           ought
           to
           be
           the
           union
           ,
           he
           that
           would
           have
           politicall
           communion
           with
           the
           politicall
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           ,
           must
           be
           some
           where
           in
           politicall
           union
           with
           them
           ,
           otherwise
           one
           may
           have
           communion
           in
           all
           Churches
           &
           yet
           never
           unite
           himself
           to
           any
           one
           ,
           which
           loose
           walking
           we
           are
           perswaded
           Christ
           Jesus
           will
           not
           allow
           .
           5
           The
           similitude
           from
           a
           circumcised
           person
           will
           not
           hold
           .
           First
           ,
           because
           there
           is
           no
           parity
           between
           severall
           families
           in
           the
           same
           Church
           ,
           and
           severall
           Churches
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           but
           rather
           severall
           seats
           of
           communicants
           in
           the
           same
           Church
           answers
           ,
           severall
           families
           eating
           the
           passeover
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           the
           Jewes
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           an
           Edomite
           circumcised
           though
           he
           were
           converted
           ,
           and
           acknowledged
           the
           true
           God
           in
           his
           owne
           country
           never
           so
           fully
           ,
           yet
           might
           not
           eate
           the
           passeover
           till
           he
           joyned
           to
           the
           church
           of
           Israel
           as
           all
           other
           Proselytes
           did
           :
           &
           so
           is
           it
           here
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Thirdly
             ,
             there
             is
             not
             the
             same
             reason
             of
             every
             Church
             priviledge
             ;
             one
             may
             have
             right
             to
             some
             who
             may
             not
             meddle
             with
             others
             ,
             as
             members
             of
             one
             Church
             may
             joyne
             in
             hearing
             and
             prayer
             with
             another
             Church
             :
             but
             not
             meddle
             in
             election
             and
             ordination
             of
             their
             Teachers
             ,
             and
             therefore
             the
             proposition
             is
             not
             so
             evident
             to
             bee
             taken
             without
             proofe
             ,
             that
             they
             have
             no
             power
             to
             admit
             a
             beleever
             into
             communion
             in
             any
             Church
             priviledge
             ,
             who
             have
             no
             power
             to
             excommunicate
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           What
           is
           here
           objected
           from
           the
           liberty
           or
           restriction
           of
           Church
           members
           in
           another
           Congregation
           ,
           is
           answered
           before
           in
           the
           first
           objection
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           proposition
           may
           stand
           good
           for
           all
           that
           is
           here
           said
           .
           2
           That
           which
           is
           set
           down
           as
           the
           proposition
           ,
           is
           neither
           the
           same
           with
           that
           in
           our
           reason
           ,
           nor
           any
           way
           allowed
           by
           us
           ;
           for
           wee
           speake
           not
           here
           of
           power
           to
           admit
           ,
           but
           of
           the
           right
           to
           bee
           partakers
           :
           neither
           doe
           wee
           deny
           a
           power
           in
           officers
           to
           admit
           members
           of
           other
           Churches
           to
           the
           seales
           ,
           though
           they
           have
           no
           power
           to
           excommunicate
           them
           .
           3
           If
           our
           proposition
           seeme
           to
           need
           proofe
           :
           the
           reason
           of
           it
           is
           at
           hand
           ,
           because
           those
           that
           are
           the
           peculiar
           priviledges
           or
           proper
           priviledges
           or
           proprieties
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           seales
           and
           censures
           being
           of
           the
           same
           nature
           ,
           viz.
           outward
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ordained
           by
           him
           for
           the
           
           edification
           of
           his
           Church
           and
           joyntly
           given
           to
           his
           Church
           :
           and
           therefore
           looke
           to
           what
           Church
           hee
           hath
           given
           the
           one
           ,
           hee
           hath
           given
           the
           other
           also
           :
           if
           the
           one
           ,
           viz.
           censures
           ,
           bee
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           a
           visible
           Congregation
           ,
           then
           the
           other
           :
           they
           are
           all
           (
           both
           seales
           and
           censures
           )
           contained
           in
           the
           keys
           which
           are
           given
           to
           the
           visible
           instituted
           Churches
           of
           the
           New
           Testament
           :
           not
           to
           the
           Catholick
           (
           as
           such
           :
           )
           for
           a
           godly
           man
           justly
           cast
           out
           of
           the
           particular
           Church
           ,
           yet
           cannot
           bee
           cast
           out
           of
           the
           Catholick
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             That
             visible
             beleevers
             baptized
             into
             a
             true
             Church
             ,
             professing
             the
             true
             faith
             ,
             and
             walking
             in
             holy
             obedience
             ,
             and
             their
             seed
             should
             be
             judged
             such
             as
             are
             without
             in
             the
             Apostles
             sense
             ,
             because
             they
             are
             not
             externally
             joyned
             as
             set
             members
             to
             some
             peculiar
             Congregation
             in
             Church
             Covenant
             ,
             is
             affirmed
             ,
             not
             proved
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Comming
           to
           the
           assumption
           of
           our
           argument
           it
           is
           expressed
           (
           according
           to
           the
           frequent
           manner
           in
           this
           Reply
           )
           in
           such
           termes
           as
           it
           is
           not
           affirmed
           by
           us
           ,
           and
           therefore
           if
           it
           want
           proof
           ,
           blame
           not
           us
           our
           assumption
           is
           ;
           Such
           as
           are
           not
           in
           Church
           Covenant
           are
           not
           capable
           of
           Church
           censures
           :
           where
           by
           being
           in
           Church
           covenant
           wee
           meane
           either
           implicitly
           or
           explicitly
           ,
           membership
           in
           any
           true
           Church
           ,
           as
           in
           our
           answer
           wee
           expresse
           to
           prevent
           mistakes
           :
           and
           this
           is
           proved
           from
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           and
           in
           applying
           hereof
           wee
           doe
           not
           affirme
           that
           such
           are
           
             simply
             without
          
           in
           the
           Apostles
           sense
           ,
           but
           
             in
             some
             respect
             onely
          
           ,
           viz.
           in
           regard
           of
           visible
           church
           Communion
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           First
           ,
           
             It
             doth
             oft
             fall
             out
             that
             the
             true
             members
             of
             the
             Catholick
             Church
             and
             best
             members
             of
             the
             orthodox
             Church
             ,
             by
             a
             prevailing
             faction
             in
             the
             Church
             ,
             may
             bee
             no
             members
             of
             any
             distinct
             society
             ,
             and
             shall
             their
             posterity
             be
             counted
             aliens
             from
             the
             Covenant
             ,
             and
             debarred
             from
             the
             Sacraments
             ,
             because
             their
             parents
             are
             unjustly
             separated
             from
             the
             inheritance
             of
             the
             Lord
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           objection
           is
           before
           answered
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           ,
           where
           was
           given
           the
           instance
           of
           Athanasius
           ,
           and
           it
           is
           answered
           by
           the
           Reply
           it selfe
           in
           the
           next
           words
           ;
           Surely
           as
           parents
           unjustly
           excommunicated
           ,
           doe
           continue
           still
           visible
           members
           of
           the
           flock
           of
           Christ
           (
           understand
           that
           particular
           Church
           out
           of
           which
           they
           are
           cast
           ,
           )
           so
           the
           right
           of
           Baptism
           belongs
           to
           their
           Infants
           :
           which
           being
           so
           ,
           they
           are
           not
           without
           that
           Church
           ,
           though
           debarred
           unjustly
           of
           the
           present
           communion
           with
           it
           ,
           unlesse
           he
           renounce
           that
           Church
           ,
           or
           other
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             If
             such
             Churches
             renounce
             it
             as
             are
             no
             members
             of
             a
             politick
             spirituall
             fellowship
             be
             without
             ,
             then
             the
             members
             of
             one
             Church
             are
             without
             unto
             another
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           objection
           wee
           have
           had
           and
           answered
           oft
           before
           .
           In
           a
           word
           ,
           there
           cannot
           bee
           the
           like
           reason
           ,
           no
           not
           in
           respect
           of
           that
           other
           Church
           ,
           who
           may
           in
           a
           due
           order
           of
           Christ
           persecute
           the
           censures
           against
           them
           ,
           though
           not
           compleatly
           amongst
           themselves
           ;
           which
           cannot
           bee
           said
           of
           such
           as
           have
           not
           joyned
           themselves
           to
           any
           Church
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           deny
           that
           the
           Apostles
           reason
           was
           because
           they
           were
           without
           to
           Corinth
           ,
           but
           without
           to
           all
           Churches
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           
             (
             The
             fornicators
             of
             this
             world
             )
             doe
             they
             not
             explaine
             whom
             the
             Apostle
             pointeth
             unto
             by
             the
             title
             of
             being
             without
             Verse
             the
             10.
             11.
             such
             as
             had
             not
             received
             the
             Covenant
             of
             grace
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           never
           thought
           otherwise
           but
           that
           the
           fornicators
           of
           this
           world
           and
           the
           heathen
           are
           most
           properly
           without
           in
           the
           Apostles
           sense
           ;
           but
           if
           our
           words
           bee
           observed
           ,
           that
           in
           
             a
             certain
             respect
          
           ,
           or
           as
           our
           words
           are
           ,
           
             in
             regard
             of
             visible
             Church
             communion
             ,
          
           such
           as
           are
           in
           no
           Church
           society
           are
           said
           to
           bee
           without
           ,
           what
           great
           offence
           have
           wee
           given
           ?
           For
           first
           ,
           is
           not
           a
           godly
           man
           (
           if
           justly
           excommunicate
           )
           without
           in
           this
           sense
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           doth
           not
           the
           Apostle
           Iohn
           expresly
           call
           them
           without
           that
           forsooke
           the
           fellowship
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           1
           Iohn
           2.
           19.
           saying
           they
           went
           out
           ?
           Thirdly
           ,
           were
           not
           the
           Catechumeni
           of
           old
           in
           this
           respect
           without
           ,
           and
           the
           lapsed
           in
           times
           of
           persecution
           ,
           and
           the
           like
           ,
           who
           (
           in
           those
           zealous
           and
           severe
           times
           of
           Church
           discipline
           )
           were
           not
           onely
           said
           to
           bee
           without
           ,
           but
           stood
           without
           ,
           though
           weeping
           and
           praying
           as
           penitents
           at
           the
           Church
           doores
           ,
           sometimes
           for
           two
           or
           three
           yeeres
           ?
           and
           after
           this
           degree
           of
           preparation
           for
           entrance
           into
           the
           Church
           which
           they
           called
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           ,
           there
           were
           three
           more
           before
           they
           were
           received
           to
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           :
           which
           severity
           though
           wee
           approve
           not
           ,
           yet
           it
           may
           mollifie
           the
           mindes
           of
           the
           godly
           learned
           that
           are
           apt
           to
           bee
           offended
           at
           such
           a
           word
           from
           us
           .
           Fourthly
           ,
           our
           Saviour
           himselfe
           expresly
           saith
           (
           and
           that
           not
           onely
           of
           those
           of
           no
           Church
           )
           but
           such
           as
           were
           even
           of
           the
           visible
           Church
           ,
           and
           his
           ordinary
           hearers
           ,
           that
           many
           of
           them
           were
           
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
             〈◊〉
          
           or
           men
           without
           :
           and
           therefore
           this
           application
           of
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           need
           not
           bee
           called
           insolent
           ,
           or
           raise
           such
           an
           hubbub
           abroad
           ,
           as
           wee
           perceive
           it
           doth
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fourthly
           ,
           
             Church
             order
             is
             necessary
             wee
             deny
             not
             ,
             but
             that
             a
             man
             should
             bee
             a
             constant
             set
             member
             of
             a
             particular
             society
             by
             Covenant
             to
             make
             him
             a
             member
             of
             the
             visible
             Church
             ,
             or
             to
             give
             him
             title
             or
             interest
             to
             the
             publike
             order
             ,
             this
             is
             not
             taught
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
         
           This
           is
           but
           a
           bare
           denyall
           of
           the
           position
           it selfe
           ,
           but
           what
           is
           meant
           by
           publike
           order
           wee
           know
           not
           :
           or
           where
           the
           order
           of
           Christ
           (
           which
           is
           granted
           to
           bee
           necessary
           )
           can
           bee
           found
           but
           in
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           wee
           are
           yet
           to
           learne
           ,
           neither
           is
           it
           any
           where
           taught
           in
           this
           Reply
           ,
           and
           wee
           would
           gladly
           learne
           how
           that
           Church
           should
           orderly
           deale
           with
           such
           a
           man
           in
           case
           of
           offence
           that
           is
           of
           no
           particular
           Church
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Fiftly
           ,
           
             Paul
             divides
             all
             men
             into
             two
             rankes
             ,
             the
             first
             and
             greater
             without
             ,
             the
             last
             and
             lesser
             within
             ,
             but
             that
             beleevers
             ,
             &c.
             and
             their
             children
             should
             be
             reckoned
             without
             ,
             we
             read
             not
             in
             any
             Scripture
             ,
             but
             in
             Scripture
             phrase
             hereticks
             themselves
             are
             within
             .
          
           1
           John
           2
           19.
           1
           
           Cor.
           11.
           19.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           All
           that
           is
           said
           in
           this
           objection
           except
           the
           last
           clause
           ,
           is
           but
           a
           repeated
           deniall
           of
           the
           conclusion
           in
           other
           words
           :
           to
           the
           objection
           about
           Hereticks
           within
           ,
           wee
           grant
           they
           are
           within
           till
           cast
           out
           or
           gone
           out
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           1
           John
           2.
           19.
           and
           if
           gone
           out
           ,
           how
           are
           they
           within
           ?
           and
           so
           if
           an
           orthodox
           professor
           will
           frowardly
           forsake
           all
           Churches
           and
           live
           alone
           ,
           or
           among
           the
           heathen
           ,
           how
           is
           hee
           within
           ?
           we
           speake
           onely
           in
           generall
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Sixtly
           ,
           
             This
             hath
             not
             beene
             beleeved
             in
             the
             Church
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           are
           not
           bound
           in
           every
           thing
           to
           be
           of
           the
           Churches
           faith
           ,
           and
           what
           wee
           have
           said
           before
           may
           satisfie
           here
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Seventhly
           ,
           
             Without
             are
             Dogs
             ,
             &c.
          
           Rev.
           22.
           15.
           
             not
             such
             as
             are
             faithfull
             ,
             holy
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           True
           ,
           properly
           such
           are
           without
           ,
           not
           these
           ,
           yet
           in
           some
           respects
           (
           as
           hath
           been
           said
           )
           others
           also
           may
           be
           without
           ,
           as
           such
           as
           forsake
           the
           Church
           ,
           &c.
           as
           was
           before
           said
           more
           fully
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Eighthly
           ,
           
             They
             that
             are
             without
             in
             the
             Apostles
             sense
             are
             Aliens
             from
             the
             commonwealth
             of
             Israel
             ,
             strangers
             from
             the
             Covenant
             of
             promise
             ,
             having
             no
             hope
             ,
             and
             without
             God
             in
             the
             world
             ;
             but
             we
             hope
             you
             will
             not
             passe
             such
             rash
             censure
             upon
             the
             brethren
             who
             bee
             not
             gathered
             into
             the
             society
             as
             set
             members
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           To
           say
           some
           beleevers
           may
           bee
           without
           in
           some
           respect
           ,
           is
           farre
           from
           such
           a
           censure
           :
           the
           Scripture
           saith
           of
           Israel
           in
           their
           corrupt
           estate
           ,
           and
           defect
           of
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           ,
           that
           they
           were
           a
           long
           time
           without
           God
           ,
           without
           Law
           ,
           without
           a
           teaching
           Priest
           ,
           yet
           that
           hard
           expression
           doth
           not
           equall
           them
           with
           the
           heathen
           ;
           much
           lesse
           to
           say
           some
           beleevers
           are
           without
           the
           visible
           Church
           in
           regard
           of
           visible
           Church
           communion
           ,
           and
           wee
           judge
           no
           otherwise
           of
           such
           then
           of
           our selves
           when
           wee
           were
           in
           the
           like
           case
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Ninthly
           ,
           
             Let
             this
             interpretation
             stand
             ,
             and
             hee
             shall
             bee
             without
             also
             that
             is
             not
             subject
             to
             the
             censures
             of
             the
             community
             of
             the
             particular
             combination
             ,
             few
             or
             many
             ,
             without
             ,
             or
             with
             Officers
             ,
             and
             so
             all
             the
             reformed
             Churches
             that
             ascribe
             the
             Keyes
             to
             the
             Presbytery
             ,
             or
             Classis
             ,
             and
             not
             to
             the
             community
             ,
             and
             some
             amongst
             your selves
             (
             if
             not
             most
             )
             shall
             bee
             without
             also
             .
          
        
         
           
             And
             therefore
             wee
             cannot
             thinke
             that
             approved
             Christians
             desiring
             seales
             are
             either
             without
             or
             not
             capable
             of
             Church
             censures
             :
             if
             they
             offend
             ,
             though
             no
             set
             members
             ,
             for
             desiring
             seales
             ,
             they
             put
             themselves
             under
             the
             ordinances
             for
             a
             time
             ,
             and
             may
             be
             proceeded
             withall
             as
             offending
             members
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           objection
           hath
           no
           colour
           without
           extreame
           straining
           of
           our
           application
           of
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           seeing
           wee
           never
           limited
           the
           position
           to
           Churches
           of
           the
           same
           judgement
           ,
           or
           in
           like
           degree
           of
           order
           to
           ours
           ;
           it
           is
           onely
           a
           forced
           odium
           which
           is
           cast
           upon
           us
           ,
           but
           wee
           can
           beare
           more
           at
           our
           brethrens
           hands
           ,
           neither
           doe
           we
           know
           any
           Church
           or
           elder
           that
           ascribes
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           to
           the
           Presbytery
           or
           Classis
           ,
           excluding
           the
           community
           amongst
           us
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           for
           that
           objection
           that
           such
           put
           themselves
           under
           the
           ordinances
           of
           Christ
           for
           the
           time
           ;
           if
           with
           profession
           of
           faith
           and
           subjection
           to
           the
           government
           of
           Christ
           ,
           they
           desire
           seales
           ,
           it
           is
           something
           ;
           but
           that
           the
           very
           desiring
           of
           seales
           doth
           include
           such
           a
           subjection
           in
           it selfe
           ,
           being
           but
           for
           this
           or
           that
           act
           of
           administration
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           understand
           :
           but
           let
           this
           bee
           really
           made
           good
           ,
           that
           desiring
           seales
           it
           being
           a
           way
           ,
           that
           subjects
           themselves
           to
           the
           Church
           as
           members
           ,
           and
           the
           case
           will
           bee
           issued
           ,
           being
           understood
           of
           such
           approved
           Christians
           as
           the
           position
           speakes
           of
           .
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           to
           proceed
           against
           such
           as
           are
           not
           members
           ,
           or
           of
           another
           Church
           ,
           as
           with
           an
           offending
           member
           of
           our
           owne
           ,
           is
           not
           much
           unlike
           the
           proceedings
           of
           Victor
           in
           his
           contentious
           time
           or
           may
           sow
           the
           seeds
           of
           such
           usurpations
           ,
           which
           wee
           leave
           to
           the
           godly
           wise
           to
           consider
           of
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Tenthly
           ,
           
             If
             upon
             good
             reason
             a
             passage
             of
             Scripture
             can
             bee
             cleared
             to
             prove
             that
             for
             which
             it
             was
             never
             alleadged
             by
             any
             writer
             ,
             wee
             are
             not
             to
             except
             against
             it
             for
             want
             of
             mans
             testimony
             ,
             onely
             in
             such
             cases
             our
             reasons
             must
             bee
             convincing
             ,
             but
             for
             the
             exposition
             of
             this
             Text
             wee
             have
             not
             observed
             one
             substantiall
             ground
             or
             approved
             author
             to
             bee
             alledged
             .
          
           Dr.
           Ames
           
             shewing
             the
             necessitie
             of
             Christians
             joyning
             themselves
             to
             some
             peculiar
             Church
             giveth
             this
             reason
          
           ;
           Quoniam
           alias
           fieri
           non
           potest
           quin
           conturbentur
           signa
           illa
           quibus
           fideles
           ab
           infidelibus
           discerni
           possunt
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           
           
             But
             herein
             Dr.
          
           Ames
           
             manifestly
             sheweth
             that
             by
          
           
           
             them
             without
             ,
             heathens
             and
             unbeleevers
             must
             be
             understood
             ,
             and
             not
             beleevers
             ,
             though
             of
             no
             setled
             society
             for
             the
             time
             ;
             for
             thus
             wee
             conceive
             hee
             argueth
             .
             The
             signes
             whereby
             the
             faithfull
             are
             to
             bee
             discerned
             from
             unbeleevers
             must
             not
             bee
             confounded
             :
             but
             unlesse
             Christians
             make
             themselves
             actuall
             members
             of
             a
             Church
             ,
             the
             signes
             whereby
             the
             faithfull
             are
             discerned
             from
             unbeleevers
             ,
             will
             bee
             obscured
             and
             darkned
             :
             and
             if
             this
             be
             his
             reason
             ,
             how
             can
             that
             Text
             bee
             alledged
             unlesse
             by
             men
             without
             ,
             infidels
             bee
             understood
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           That
           we
           have
           reasons
           to
           alledge
           it
           in
           that
           sense
           and
           respect
           declared
           ,
           may
           appeare
           by
           our
           answers
           to
           your
           objections
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           That
           wee
           have
           one
           approved
           authour
           so
           alleadging
           it
           ,
           viz.
           Doctor
           Ames
           ,
           shall
           appeare
           in
           cleering
           his
           meaning
           from
           your
           objections
           .
           1.
           
           Grant
           that
           by
           men
           without
           (
           according
           to
           Doctor
           Ames
           his
           reason
           )
           Infidels
           be
           understood
           by
           the
           Apostle
           ,
           yet
           how
           shall
           the
           signes
           discerning
           beleevers
           from
           unbeleevers
           ,
           bee
           confounded
           by
           such
           as
           joyne
           not
           to
           some
           particular
           Church
           ,
           if
           those
           beleevers
           doe
           not
           in
           some
           respect
           stand
           without
           amongst
           unbeleevers
           ?
           and
           the
           consequence
           is
           so
           plaine
           that
           the
           owne
           Syllogisme
           whereinto
           you
           cast
           his
           argument
           would
           have
           concluded
           so
           much
           ,
           if
           it
           had
           been
           suffered
           to
           speake
           out
           in
           the
           conclusion
           .
           For
           in
           stead
           of
           saying
           ,
           except
           such
           joyne
           to
           some
           Church
           ,
           the
           signes
           will
           be
           darkned
           and
           obscured
           ;
           the
           reason
           rightly
           concluded
           would
           have
           said
           (
           
             fieri
             non
             potest
          
           )
           it
           cannot
           bee
           but
           the
           signes
           will
           bee
           confounded
           :
           and
           therefore
           in
           his
           judgement
           it
           is
           unavoidable
           that
           such
           mix
           themselves
           with
           unbeleevers
           ,
           that
           are
           without
           indeed
           properly
           in
           the
           Apostles
           sense
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Againe
             ,
             Doctor
          
           Ames
           ,
           
             lib.
             4.
             cap.
             17.
             speaking
             of
             Infants
             to
             be
             received
             ,
             saith
             it
             is
             required
             ,
             first
             ,
             that
             they
             be
             in
             the
             Covenant
             of
             Grace
             by
             outward
             profession
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           What
           you
           alledge
           here
           out
           of
           Doctor
           Ames
           ,
           wee
           confesse
           sheweth
           that
           hee
           was
           very
           large
           in
           his
           charity
           about
           the
           baptizing
           of
           Infants
           ,
           extending
           the
           same
           to
           the
           child
           of
           a
           Papist
           ,
           &c.
           but
           it
           may
           seeme
           by
           some
           passages
           that
           hee
           understood
           by
           profession
           of
           faith
           ,
           such
           as
           live
           in
           the
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           and
           lookes
           at
           the
           child
           of
           a
           Papist
           as
           one
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           for
           substance
           ,
           though
           so
           exceedingly
           corrupt
           :
           but
           all
           this
           do
           not
           disprove
           that
           he
           understood
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           otherwise
           then
           hath
           been
           said
           .
        
         
           What
           you
           alledge
           out
           of
           his
           second
           Manuduction
           concerning
           the
           Churches
           of
           England
           we
           consent
           unto
           ,
           neither
           doe
           wee
           deny
           
           seales
           to
           any
           ,
           if
           they
           demand
           them
           as
           members
           of
           any
           true
           Church
           in
           England
           ,
           and
           in
           an
           orderly
           way
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           X.
           Consid
           .
           5.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             first
             consideration
             ,
             If
             it
             bee
             repugnant
             to
             divine
             institution
             to
             admit
             of
             approved
             Christians
             lawfully
             baptized
             ,
             walking
             in
             the
             faith
             ,
             members
             of
             the
             visible
             Churches
             ,
             and
             partakers
             of
             Church
             priviledges
             amongst
             us
             ,
             to
             the
             Lords
             Supper
             ,
             or
             their
             children
             to
             baptisme
             ;
             because
             they
             bee
             not
             entered
             into
             Church-fellowship
             according
             to
             your
             order
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             unlawfull
             though
             no
             such
             evill
             consequences
             are
             to
             bee
             feared
             ,
             but
             if
             by
             accident
             some
             abuse
             should
             fall
             out
             ,
             the
             evill
             is
             to
             bee
             prevented
             by
             all
             lawfull
             meanes
             ,
             but
             the
             faithfull
             are
             not
             to
             be
             debarred
             utterly
             of
             the
             order
             of
             God
             ,
             whereto
             they
             have
             right
             and
             title
             by
             his
             free
             grant
             and
             gracious
             institution
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           cannot
           but
           still
           complaine
           of
           this
           liberty
           ,
           which
           is
           taken
           in
           changing
           the
           termes
           of
           the
           question
           ,
           First
           :
           that
           clause
           ,
           Members
           of
           visible
           Churches
           ,
           is
           not
           in
           the
           position
           ,
           nor
           is
           it
           maintained
           by
           us
           in
           that
           sense
           ,
           neither
           doe
           wee
           limit
           Church-fellowship
           to
           our
           order
           ,
           (
           as
           it
           is
           called
           )
           but
           acknowledge
           Churches
           defective
           in
           matters
           of
           order
           ,
           (
           as
           was
           said
           )
           in
           the
           answer
           :
           and
           therefore
           it
           is
           an
           apparent
           wrong
           to
           us
           and
           to
           the
           readers
           ,
           so
           oft
           to
           put
           in
           such
           things
           as
           are
           not
           in
           the
           controversie
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           If
           it
           bee
           unlawfull
           by
           divine
           institution
           ,
           may
           not
           evill
           consequences
           bee
           added
           ,
           and
           if
           both
           hold
           ,
           are
           not
           our
           reasons
           the
           more
           strong
           ?
           What
           needeth
           then
           such
           a
           Reply
           ?
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           We
           have
           oft
           granted
           a
           remote
           right
           ,
           but
           next
           and
           immediate
           we
           still
           deny
           ,
           and
           wee
           conceive
           no
           other
           order
           of
           God
           in
           his
           Churches
           to
           prevent
           such
           evils
           ,
           then
           by
           joyning
           to
           the
           instituted
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Seals
             may
             bee
             prophaned
             when
             the
             dispensers
             cannot
             helpe
             it
             :
             but
             here
             is
             no
             feare
             or
             danger
             of
             such
             consequences
             necessary
             to
             follow
             :
             for
             wee
             speake
             not
             of
             all
             sorts
             ,
             at
             randome
             ,
             but
             of
             Christians
             professing
             the
             faith
             intirely
             ,
             lawfully
             baptized
             ,
             knowne
             and
             approved
             to
             the
             wise
             and
             judicious
             visible
             members
             of
             the
             Churches
             amongst
             us
             sufficiently
             knowne
             to
             you
             ,
             or
             orderly
             recommended
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           feare
           and
           danger
           in
           this
           case
           is
           more
           then
           (
           so
           farre
           off
           )
           can
           easily
           bee
           discerned
           ,
           though
           the
           limitations
           bee
           good
           in
           
           themselves
           ,
           yet
           the
           application
           of
           this
           description
           in
           the
           first
           part
           of
           it
           would
           open
           a
           doore
           wider
           then
           many
           can
           imagine
           ,
           for
           many
           such
           (
           in
           the
           judgement
           even
           of
           the
           wisest
           )
           comming
           in
           to
           this
           state
           of
           temptations
           prove
           farre
           otherwise
           ,
           (
           even
           your selves
           being
           Judges
           ,
           if
           you
           were
           here
           )
           wee
           suppose
           the
           experience
           of
           the
           discoveries
           God
           hath
           made
           in
           these
           late
           trials
           of
           England
           ,
           amongst
           forward
           professors
           ,
           will
           teach
           our
           brethren
           to
           consider
           how
           many
           professors
           may
           prove
           here
           .
           Yet
           secondly
           ,
           if
           you
           add
           such
           as
           retaining
           their
           membership
           in
           your
           Churches
           ,
           are
           recommended
           unto
           us
           by
           your
           Churches
           ,
           or
           by
           known
           godly
           Ministers
           ,
           wee
           can
           then
           according
           to
           order
           receive
           them
           ,
           and
           avoid
           the
           confusion
           and
           inconveniences
           wee
           objected
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           if
           also
           it
           be
           taken
           into
           the
           description
           ,
           knowne
           and
           sufficiently
           approved
           of
           our selves
           ,
           then
           the
           doore
           is
           open
           to
           them
           to
           the
           communion
           of
           the
           Church
           and
           all
           the
           priviledges
           thereof
           ,
           though
           they
           cannot
           settle
           in
           the
           place
           of
           their
           present
           abode
           ,
           and
           this
           way
           of
           order
           would
           prevent
           the
           inconveniences
           :
           but
           if
           wee
           come
           to
           put
           a
           difference
           any
           other
           way
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           avoid
           it
           but
           great
           offence
           will
           be
           given
           to
           many
           ,
           and
           the
           inconveniences
           objected
           in
           some
           degree
           at
           least
           will
           follow
           here
           with
           us
           ,
           and
           it
           may
           be
           much
           more
           in
           some
           other
           places
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             You
             professe
             high
             respect
             to
             your
             brethren
             in
             Old
          
           England
           ,
           
             but
             it
             seemes
             you
             judge
             them
             insufficient
             to
             give
             you
             orderly
             testimony
             of
             the
             sincerity
             of
             approved
             Christians
             well
             known
             and
             living
             amongst
             them
             ,
             which
             two
             cannot
             well
             agree
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           Position
           holds
           forth
           no
           such
           judgement
           of
           the
           insufficiency
           of
           our
           Brethren
           in
           the
           case
           ,
           neither
           have
           we
           shewed
           it
           by
           rejecting
           such
           orderly
           testimony
           that
           we
           know
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Wee
             speake
             not
             of
             such
             ,
             who
             against
             light
             refuse
             to
             professe
             subjection
             to
             the
             Gospell
             of
             Christ
             ,
             or
             to
             joyne
             to
             some
             approved
             Church
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Neither
           doe
           wee
           impute
           that
           to
           all
           that
           joyne
           not
           unto
           us
           ,
           but
           our
           meaning
           is
           ,
           that
           under
           such
           a
           description
           of
           approved
           Christians
           ,
           we
           shall
           bee
           necessitated
           to
           admit
           of
           some
           ,
           if
           not
           many
           such
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             No
             question
             but
             many
             have
             been
             admitted
             by
             the
             Church
             ,
             who
             in
             truth
             are
             much
             too
             light
             ,
             and
             some
             refused
             ,
             who
             are
             better
             deserving
             then
             they
             that
             cast
             them
             off
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Bee
           it
           so
           ,
           that
           through
           personall
           failings
           ,
           and
           weaknesse
           of
           discerning
           ,
           it
           may
           and
           doe
           fall
           out
           sometimes
           ,
           yet
           this
           no
           way
           hinders
           ,
           but
           that
           all
           lawfull
           meanes
           to
           prevent
           the
           same
           may
           and
           
           ought
           to
           be
           used
           ,
           and
           this
           we
           may
           before
           the
           Lord
           professe
           ,
           that
           the
           purpose
           and
           desire
           of
           our
           hearts
           are
           ,
           as
           well
           to
           embrace
           the
           weakest
           humble
           Christian
           ,
           as
           to
           keepe
           out
           the
           proud
           Pharisee
           :
           and
           wee
           have
           seen
           a
           gracious
           presence
           of
           Christ
           in
           his
           Churches
           ,
           blessing
           our
           indeavours
           therein
           ,
           whatsoever
           any
           discontented
           persons
           returning
           back
           ,
           may
           clamour
           to
           the
           contrary
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           XI
           .
           Consid
           .
           6.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             sixt
             consideration
             ,
             this
             conclusion
             is
             not
             to
             the
             question
             propounded
             :
             for
             wee
             speake
             of
             such
             as
             cannot
             ,
             not
             of
             such
             as
             refuse
             to
             joyne
             themselves
             to
             the
             Churches
             ;
             or
             if
             they
             doe
             not
             joyne
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             out
             of
             contempt
             ,
             or
             wilfull
             neglect
             ,
             but
             for
             lacke
             of
             opportunity
             ,
             or
             through
             their
             default
             ,
             that
             should
             admit
             them
             ,
             but
             doe
             not
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           learned
           Authour
           here
           wholly
           mistakes
           the
           conclusion
           of
           this
           argument
           ;
           the
           conclusion
           is
           plaine
           and
           expressed
           with
           the
           ordinary
           note
           ,
           Ergo
           no
           christian
           can
           expect
           by
           the
           appointment
           of
           God
           ,
           to
           partake
           in
           the
           seales
           ,
           till
           he
           hath
           joyned
           himselfe
           in
           Church-fellowship
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           call
           of
           the
           Minister
           ;
           and
           this
           is
           fully
           to
           the
           question
           propounded
           :
           and
           wee
           marveld
           it
           should
           not
           be
           observed
           ,
           but
           the
           last
           words
           of
           the
           answer
           should
           bee
           put
           in
           stead
           of
           it
           ,
           which
           are
           onely
           a
           secondary
           deduction
           from
           the
           former
           ,
           as
           an
           absurdity
           ,
           which
           may
           follow
           :
           if
           the
           other
           be
           not
           granted
           .
           And
           yet
           hence
           occasion
           is
           taken
           to
           charge
           us
           with
           injurious
           and
           tyrannical
           dealing
           toward
           such
           as
           are
           not
           admitted
           ,
           which
           we
           leave
           to
           the
           Lord
           to
           judge
           of
           ,
           and
           of
           us
           .
           You
           say
           ,
           you
           accuse
           not
           the
           discretion
           of
           our
           Churches
           ,
           but
           impute
           it
           to
           the
           rashnesse
           of
           the
           zealous
           multitude
           ,
           but
           if
           it
           were
           so
           practised
           ,
           as
           is
           conceived
           ,
           the
           Churches
           and
           their
           guides
           should
           shew
           little
           wisedome
           ,
           and
           faithfulnesse
           to
           the
           Lord
           ,
           and
           the
           soules
           of
           his
           people
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             When
             a
             reason
             is
             demanded
             of
             your
             judgement
             ,
             why
             you
             debarre
             approved
             Christians
             from
             the
             seales
             ,
             and
             we
             dislike
             it
             ,
             you
             should
             put
             this
             note
             upon
             them
             ,
             as
             if
             against
             light
             they
             refused
             orderly
             to
             subject
             themselves
             to
             the
             Gospell
             of
             Christ
             .
             What
             warrant
             you
             have
             thus
             to
             censure
             ,
             what
             use
             of
             this
             manner
             of
             dispute
             ,
             we
             leave
             it
             to
             your
             godly
             wisedome
             to
             judge
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           are
           heartily
           sorry
           that
           this
           reverend
           man
           of
           God
           ,
           out
           of
           a
           meere
           and
           palpable
           mistake
           of
           the
           conclusion
           of
           the
           dispute
           ,
           should
           
           runne
           out
           to
           condemne
           us
           for
           so
           much
           censoriousnesse
           of
           others
           without
           cause
           ,
           whether
           our
           manner
           of
           dispute
           bee
           here
           so
           without
           use
           ,
           wee
           leave
           to
           the
           judicious
           reader
           to
           judge
           .
           And
           that
           wee
           are
           far
           from
           such
           censures
           of
           godly
           approved
           Christians
           amongst
           us
           ,
           wee
           can
           approve
           our selves
           to
           God
           ,
           and
           the
           consciences
           of
           many
           that
           live
           amongst
           us
           ;
           wee
           doe
           not
           say
           that
           all
           who
           doe
           not
           joyne
           with
           us
           ,
           doe
           refuse
           against
           light
           ,
           yet
           wee
           finde
           it
           true
           too
           oft
           ,
           that
           forward
           professors
           in
           England
           here
           discover
           evidently
           an
           heart
           refusing
           against
           light
           to
           submit
           to
           Gods
           ordinances
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           had
           cause
           to
           say
           ,
           it
           were
           unreasonable
           such
           should
           have
           equall
           liberty
           with
           others
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             consideration
             it selfe
             there
             are
             many
             propositions
             couched
             to
             be
             examined
             ,
             the
             first
             ,
             That
             none
             have
             power
             to
             dispense
             seales
             but
             such
             as
             are
             called
             to
             the
             Ministry
             ,
             is
             freely
             granted
             .
             The
             second
             ,
             That
             no
             man
             can
             be
             so
             called
             ,
             till
             there
             bee
             a
             Church
             to
             call
             him
             ,
             needeth
             explication
             .
             For
             by
             the
             Church
             you
             must
             understand
             the
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             as
             they
             are
             one
             body
             without
             officers
             ,
             and
             such
             a
             Church
             there
             cannot
             be
             ,
             without
             a
             ministry
             to
             call
             ,
             and
             admit
             them
             into
             Church
             fellowship
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           consideration
           shines
           with
           such
           clearenesse
           ,
           that
           an
           impartiall
           eye
           may
           easily
           see
           that
           the
           truth
           by
           sundry
           diverticula
           is
           rather
           clouded
           ,
           then
           the
           argument
           fairely
           answered
           .
           This
           second
           proposition
           being
           too
           plaine
           to
           bee
           denied
           ,
           interpretations
           are
           sought
           ,
           but
           they
           are
           rather
           objections
           ,
           to
           which
           wee
           shall
           answer
           in
           order
           .
           First
           ,
           though
           wee
           grant
           the
           Lord
           ordinarily
           gathered
           Churches
           by
           the
           ministry
           of
           men
           in
           Office
           ,
           as
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           Evangelists
           ,
           &c.
           yet
           not
           alwayes
           so
           ,
           as
           is
           evident
           ,
           Acts
           11.
           20
           ,
           21.
           
           The
           story
           of
           Waldus
           is
           well
           knowne
           ,
           and
           we
           suppose
           you
           will
           grant
           those
           Waldenses
           the
           name
           of
           a
           true
           Church
           .
           Origen
           when
           hee
           was
           not
           allowed
           of
           the
           Church
           to
           bee
           a
           Ministes
           ,
           yet
           converted
           many
           who
           died
           Martyrs
           .
           The
           story
           also
           of
           Frumentius
           is
           well
           known
           ,
           with
           divers
           others
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           Ministers
           by
           Office
           are
           of
           two
           sorts
           ,
           either
           such
           as
           are
           called
           immediatly
           or
           mediatly
           ,
           such
           as
           were
           immediatly
           and
           extraordinarily
           called
           ,
           were
           before
           Churches
           ,
           and
           were
           called
           together
           and
           begin
           Churches
           ,
           (
           as
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           
             Matth.
             28.
             20.
             
             Act.
          
           1.
           8.
           )
           But
           all
           ordinary
           officers
           that
           are
           to
           administer
           in
           a
           Church
           doe
           necessarily
           presuppose
           a
           Church
           to
           call
           them
           ,
           unlesse
           any
           will
           adventure
           to
           say
           in
           plaine
           English
           ,
           that
           the
           calling
           of
           a
           Minister
           may
           bee
           without
           the
           antecedent
           election
           of
           the
           people
           ,
           and
           then
           wee
           shall
           finde
           what
           to
           Reply
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Apostles
             baptized
             not
             themselves
             ,
             but
             by
             the
             helpe
             of
             others
             ,
             and
             those
             not
             called
             of
             the
             people
             to
             baptize
             ,
          
           1
           Cor.
           1.
           17.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Bee
           it
           so
           that
           in
           
             Corinth
             Paul
          
           baptized
           not
           many
           but
           by
           others
           ,
           yet
           first
           we
           demand
           ,
           By
           whom
           did
           Paul
           and
           the
           Apostles
           baptize
           ?
           It
           was
           either
           by
           Evangelists
           ,
           and
           so
           it
           is
           all
           one
           ,
           as
           if
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           as
           extraordinary
           officers
           did
           it
           ,
           or
           by
           the
           Pastors
           newly
           chosen
           and
           ordained
           in
           the
           Churches
           newly
           gathered
           ,
           who
           might
           baptize
           the
           rest
           ;
           and
           then
           the
           Church
           was
           before
           such
           officers
           :
           or
           else
           by
           private
           persons
           ,
           which
           is
           denyed
           expresly
           in
           the
           Reply
           to
           the
           first
           proposition
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Apostles
             appointed
             by
             election
             Elders
             in
             every
             City
             or
             Church
             ,
             and
             so
             there
             was
             a
             Church
             before
             Elders
             ,
             but
             this
             Church
             was
             a
             society
             of
             beleevers
             by
             Baptisme
             admitted
             into
             Church
             fellowship
             ,
             and
             therefore
             there
             must
             be
             Ministers
             to
             baptize
             ,
             before
             there
             can
             bee
             a
             Church
             to
             call
             a
             Minister
             .
             For
             a
             company
             of
             unbaptized
             men
             cannot
             choose
             a
             Minister
             to
             baptize
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           see
           here
           still
           how
           unawares
           the
           truth
           of
           this
           proposition
           and
           of
           the
           position
           it selfe
           breaketh
           forth
           ;
           for
           the
           proposition
           it
           is
           fully
           yeelded
           and
           is
           most
           plain
           in
           the
           place
           alluded
           to
           Acts
           14.
           
           Vers
           .
           23.
           
           And
           the
           position
           is
           yeelded
           also
           ,
           for
           if
           the
           Apostles
           admitted
           beleevers
           into
           all
           those
           Churches
           in
           the
           first
           constitution
           of
           them
           by
           baptisme
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           the
           very
           truth
           wee
           contend
           for
           ,
           and
           was
           formerly
           denyed
           )
           and
           these
           Churches
           were
           such
           as
           chose
           Elders
           (
           and
           therefore
           were
           particular
           Churches
           )
           and
           so
           the
           cause
           is
           fully
           yeelded
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             A
             company
             of
             converts
             unbaptized
             ought
             to
             desire
             baptisme
             ,
             but
             they
             have
             no
             power
             to
             elect
             one
             amongst
             themselves
             to
             dispense
             the
             seales
             unto
             the
             rest
             ,
             &c.
             
             It
             can
             never
             bee
             shewed
             in
             Scripture
             that
             any
             society
             of
             unbaptized
             did
             first
             choose
             from
             among
             themselves
             a
             Pastour
             or
             Teacher
             by
             whom
             they
             might
             bee
             baptized
             ,
             you
             cannot
             produce
             one
             example
             or
             other
             proofe
             in
             Scripture
             of
             one
             man
             teaching
             the
             Gospel
             ministerially
             ,
             but
             hee
             was
             baptized
             and
             a
             member
             of
             a
             true
             Church
             or
             of
             a
             society
             ,
             who
             made
             choyce
             of
             a
             Pastor
             or
             Teacher
             ,
             but
             they
             were
             baptized
             persons
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           If
           all
           this
           were
           granted
           that
           when
           Churches
           were
           gathered
           by
           Apostles
           and
           extraordinary
           officers
           out
           of
           persons
           unbaptized
           ,
           they
           were
           first
           baptized
           into
           Church
           fellowship
           ,
           before
           they
           chose
           Officers
           ,
           and
           so
           long
           as
           the
           Apostles
           remained
           ,
           enjoyed
           from
           them
           other
           ordinances
           ,
           as
           Act.
           2.
           and
           so
           had
           no
           Officers
           chosen
           by
           themselves
           ,
           but
           by
           Christ
           immediatly
           for
           them
           ,
           yet
           as
           when
           the
           Apostles
           left
           them
           ,
           they
           must
           choose
           Officers
           if
           they
           
           will
           enjoy
           ordinances
           :
           So
           when
           there
           is
           no
           such
           Apostles
           nor
           Evangelists
           ,
           nor
           no
           need
           of
           baptisme
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           usually
           the
           cause
           of
           Christians
           arising
           out
           of
           popery
           )
           in
           this
           case
           wee
           say
           such
           Churches
           can
           partake
           of
           no
           ordinances
           without
           they
           choose
           officers
           ,
           and
           yet
           this
           varyeth
           not
           from
           the
           Scripture
           patterne
           neither
           .
           But
           onely
           so
           farre
           as
           the
           state
           of
           those
           beleevers
           differ
           ,
           when
           Paul
           found
           about
           twelve
           beleevers
           at
           Ephesus
           ,
           who
           were
           baptized
           by
           John
           the
           Baptist
           ,
           Act.
           19.
           1.
           
           &c.
           If
           these
           were
           by
           the
           Apostle
           set
           into
           a
           constituted
           Church
           ,
           as
           is
           probable
           ,
           (
           being
           called
           on
           further
           to
           the
           knowledge
           of
           Christ
           and
           his
           will
           and
           wayes
           )
           there
           was
           no
           need
           of
           baptizing
           them
           againe
           with
           water
           ,
           but
           onely
           with
           the
           holy
           Ghost
           ,
           as
           the
           Apostles
           were
           at
           Pentecost
           ,
           Act.
           1.
           5.
           with
           2.
           1.
           2.
           and
           yet
           no
           varying
           from
           the
           rule
           in
           so
           doing
           :
           and
           the
           like
           is
           our
           case
           now
           .
        
         
           2.
           
           If
           this
           bee
           so
           as
           here
           you
           urge
           ,
           then
           those
           former
           assertions
           must
           needs
           fall
           to
           the
           ground
           ;
           as
           ,
           
             That
             every
             society
             in
             covenant
             with
             God
             is
             the
             true
             Church
             of
             God
             ,
             page
             23.
             and
             that
             it
             is
             simply
             necessary
             to
             the
             being
             of
             a
             Church
             ,
             that
             it
             hee
             layd
             upon
             Christ
             the
             foundation
             ,
             which
             being
             done
             ,
             the
             remaining
             of
             what
             is
             forbidden
             ,
             or
             want
             of
             what
             is
             commanded
             ,
             cannot
             put
             the
             society
             from
             the
             right
             and
             title
             of
             a
             Church
             .
          
           If
           these
           were
           so
           a
           company
           of
           unbaptized
           persons
           may
           bee
           a
           Church
           ,
           being
           in
           Covenant
           with
           God
           and
           layd
           on
           Christ
           the
           foundation
           ,
           though
           they
           want
           baptisme
           .
        
         
           3.
           
           Though
           no
           such
           example
           of
           unbaptized
           persons
           choosing
           a
           Pastour
           among
           themselves
           can
           bee
           shewed
           ,
           when
           there
           was
           no
           need
           thereof
           ;
           (
           Apostles
           being
           at
           hand
           to
           baptize
           them
           )
           yet
           why
           in
           absence
           of
           Apostles
           ,
           &c.
           might
           they
           not
           choose
           some
           other
           baptized
           Christian
           ,
           who
           comming
           into
           some
           farre
           remote
           country
           of
           Infidels
           ,
           is
           a
           meanes
           of
           their
           conversion
           ;
           wee
           see
           nothing
           to
           hinder
           :
           it
           would
           bee
           hard
           for
           any
           to
           shew
           an
           example
           of
           Presbyters
           holding
           a
           Synod
           or
           ordaining
           of
           Elders
           ,
           without
           Apostles
           or
           some
           extraordinary
           officer
           ,
           yet
           we
           suppose
           ,
           you
           make
           no
           doubt
           of
           such
           things
           .
        
         
           4
           ▪
           If
           an
           example
           of
           one
           unbaptized
           that
           preached
           &
           baptized
           Ministerially
           would
           satisfie
           ,
           the
           example
           of
           Iohn
           the
           Baptist
           might
           answer
           your
           demand
           ,
           for
           whether
           hee
           baptized
           himselfe
           ,
           or
           were
           baptized
           by
           some
           other
           at
           first
           ,
           an
           unbaptized
           person
           did
           baptize
           ,
           but
           wee
           see
           no
           need
           of
           such
           an
           example
           :
           Scripture
           grounds
           are
           sufficient
           to
           guide
           us
           in
           these
           cases
           ,
           bee
           they
           rules
           ,
           examples
           or
           good
           consequences
           deduced
           from
           them
           ,
           and
           wee
           reason
           thus
           ;
           a
           
           Church
           of
           beleevers
           professing
           Christ
           have
           liberty
           from
           Christ
           to
           choose
           their
           Officers
           :
           But
           a
           company
           of
           unbaptized
           men
           professing
           the
           entire
           faith
           in
           a
           combined
           society
           ,
           is
           a
           true
           Church
           :
           and
           therefore
           may
           choose
           their
           officers
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             third
             proposition
             :
             That
             the
             power
             of
             calling
             Ministers
             is
             given
             by
             Christ
             unto
             the
             Church
             ,
             must
             also
             rightly
             be
             understood
             ,
             by
             the
             Church
             must
             not
             be
             understood
             the
             faithfull
             alone
             ,
             but
             their
             guids
             and
             Officers
             with
             them
             ,
             who
             are
             to
             goe
             before
             them
             and
             to
             governe
             and
             direct
             them
             in
             their
             choyce
             ,
             neither
             can
             wee
             say
             two
             or
             three
             beleevers
             linked
             in
             a
             society
             is
             such
             a
             Church
             ,
             to
             whom
             the
             call
             of
             Ministers
             do
             belong
             ,
             but
             that
             right
             was
             given
             by
             Christ
             to
             such
             Churches
             ,
             as
             were
             gathered
             by
             the
             Apostles
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           first
           Limitation
           of
           this
           proposition
           wee
           passe
           over
           as
           being
           spoken
           to
           in
           the
           former
           ;
           to
           this
           wee
           answer
           ,
           that
           when
           a
           Church
           have
           guides
           ,
           wee
           grant
           they
           are
           to
           governe
           them
           therein
           ,
           but
           not
           to
           limit
           them
           ,
           whom
           to
           choose
           ,
           but
           when
           the
           Church
           have
           no
           such
           guides
           ,
           (
           as
           by
           death
           and
           other
           wayes
           it
           may
           fall
           out
           ,
           )
           shall
           they
           then
           lose
           their
           right
           of
           choosing
           ?
           if
           so
           ,
           let
           it
           be
           shewed
           to
           whom
           the
           right
           falls
           ;
           They
           may
           take
           what
           counsell
           and
           helpe
           from
           others
           they
           want
           ,
           but
           the
           choyce
           is
           onely
           in
           them
           ,
           and
           therefore
           this
           limitation
           is
           needlesse
           .
           For
           the
           number
           of
           two
           or
           three
           wee
           contend
           not
           ,
           but
           such
           Churches
           as
           the
           Apostles
           gathered
           were
           particular
           Congregations
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           right
           is
           in
           such
           ,
           bee
           they
           more
           or
           fewer
           .
           When
           Bellarmine
           saith
           ,
           that
           our
           Ministers
           intruded
           themselves
           into
           Churches
           ;
           no
           ,
           saith
           Dr.
           Field
           ,
           for
           the
           people
           elected
           them
           ,
           which
           they
           might
           lawfully
           doe
           and
           separate
           from
           wicked
           Ministers
           ,
           which
           hee
           proves
           by
           the
           testimony
           of
           Cyprian
           ,
           writing
           to
           the
           Bishops
           of
           Spaine
           not
           to
           communicate
           with
           Basilides
           and
           Martialis
           ,
           who
           fell
           to
           Idolatry
           in
           times
           of
           persecution
           ,
           
             Quando
             ipsa
             plebs
             potestatem
             habet
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           Also
           from
           Ocham
           ,
           who
           saith
           ,
           
             Si
             Papa
             &
             maxime
             celebres
             Episcopi
             incidunt
             in
             haeresin
             ,
             ad
             Catholicos
             devoluta
             est
             potestas
             omnis
             judicandi
             :
          
           to
           which
           hee
           addes
           this
           reason
           ,
           either
           they
           must
           separate
           from
           them
           ,
           and
           choose
           others
           ,
           or
           consent
           to
           their
           impieties
           .
           
             Field
             lib.
             3.
             cap.
          
           39.
           
           What
           followeth
           in
           this
           place
           being
           little
           to
           this
           point
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           most
           part
           not
           scrupled
           by
           us
           :
           and
           what
           is
           not
           acknowledged
           by
           us
           ,
           wee
           shall
           have
           a
           fitter
           occasion
           to
           speake
           to
           it
           ,
           therefore
           here
           wee
           passe
           it
           over
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             ▪
          
           
             Proposi
             .
             4.
             
             That
             all
             those
             who
             desire
             seales
             are
             bound
             to
             joyne
             themselves
             in
             Church
             fellowship
             ,
             that
             so
             they
             may
             call
             a
             Minister
             to
             dispense
             the
             seales
             unto
             them
             ,
             will
             not
             follow
             from
             the
             former
             rightly
             understood
             :
             for
          
           
           
             they
             must
             partake
             of
             the
             seales
             before
             they
             can
             joyne
             themselves
             together
             in
             Church
             estate
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           To
           this
           objection
           was
           spoken
           before
           ,
           onely
           we
           marvell
           why
           you
           say
           they
           must
           first
           partake
           of
           Seales
           ,
           when
           as
           Acts
           2.
           they
           were
           baptized
           and
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           the
           same
           day
           :
           and
           't
           is
           granted
           the
           Apostles
           gathered
           Churches
           by
           baptisme
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Such
             as
             for
             lack
             of
             meanes
             and
             opportunity
             cannot
             joyne
             in
             such
             estate
             ,
             er
             bee
             dispersed
             by
             persecution
             or
             destitute
             of
             Pastors
             or
             Teachers
             ,
             may
             for
             a
             time
             seeke
             the
             seales
             in
             other
             societies
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           first
           instance
           is
           the
           thing
           in
           question
           ;
           and
           such
           as
           may
           come
           to
           any
           society
           to
           desire
           seales
           are
           not
           wholly
           destitute
           of
           meanes
           and
           opportunity
           to
           joyne
           ,
           viz.
           to
           that
           society
           .
           The
           two
           other
           instances
           being
           of
           such
           as
           may
           bee
           supposed
           still
           to
           hold
           their
           right
           in
           a
           Church
           society
           ;
           the
           thing
           is
           granted
           by
           us
           in
           way
           of
           communion
           of
           Churches
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             people
             also
             who
             are
             deprived
             of
             right
             and
             libertie
             to
             chuse
             their
             pastour
             ,
             may
             desire
             the
             seales
             of
             him
             that
             is
             set
             over
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           objection
           is
           easie
           ,
           for
           in
           desiring
           seales
           of
           him
           and
           submitting
           themselves
           to
           his
           ministry
           ,
           they
           doe
           now
           choose
           him
           ;
           however
           at
           first
           they
           opposed
           his
           comming
           .
           But
           what
           is
           this
           to
           what
           ought
           to
           bee
           in
           an
           orderly
           way
           whereof
           wee
           speake
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             These
             propositions
             being
             allowed
             for
             currant
             ;
             a
             nation
             or
             people
             plunged
             into
             Idolatry
             or
             Infidelity
             ,
             or
             otherwise
             dischurched
             cannot
             by
             ordinary
             meanes
             recover
             into
             a
             Church
             estate
             ,
             wherein
             they
             may
             lawfully
             and
             according
             to
             Gods
             appointment
             desire
             or
             expect
             that
             the
             seales
             of
             the
             Covenant
             shall
             bee
             dispensed
             unto
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           What
           should
           hinder
           ,
           if
           the
           whole
           nation
           would
           bee
           willing
           ,
           to
           recover
           themselves
           into
           Churches
           ?
           Indeed
           that
           is
           rare
           to
           be
           found
           that
           all
           will
           affect
           such
           a
           recovery
           .
           But
           wee
           see
           nothing
           to
           hinder
           but
           all
           the
           nation
           or
           so
           many
           as
           are
           awakened
           in
           conscience
           to
           bewaile
           their
           Apostasie
           and
           lament
           after
           the
           Lord
           ,
           having
           especially
           the
           countenance
           of
           the
           supreme
           magistrate
           ,
           severall
           companies
           of
           Christians
           may
           combine
           in
           Churches
           so
           as
           may
           best
           suite
           with
           their
           edification
           ,
           chuse
           officers
           and
           injoy
           ordinances
           .
           Nay
           ,
           
             è
             contra
          
           ,
           our
           Protestant
           Divines
           ,
           as
           
             Chemnitius
             ,
             Field
             ,
             Brentius
             ,
             Whitacher
             ,
             Luther
             ,
             &c.
          
           make
           peoples
           power
           of
           electing
           their
           Ministers
           the
           best
           foundation
           of
           a
           peoples
           recovery
           of
           a
           true
           Ministry
           and
           Church
           estate
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             fifth
             Proposition
             riseth
             beyond
             measure
             ,
             That
             no
             Christian
             can
             expect
             by
             the
             appointment
             of
             God
             to
             partake
             in
             the
             seales
             ,
             till
             hee
             have
             joyned
          
           
           
             himselfe
             in
             Church
             fellowship
             and
             in
             the
             call
             of
             the
             Minister
             .
             We
             conceive
             you
             will
             not
             say
             that
             children
             and
             women
             have
             to
             doe
             in
             the
             call
             of
             the
             Minister
             .
             If
             some
             part
             of
             the
             Church
             doe
             not
             consent
             in
             the
             call
             of
             the
             Minister
             ,
             must
             they
             separate
             from
             the
             ordinances
             of
             worship
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           seeming
           swellings
           of
           this
           proposition
           will
           easily
           fall
           and
           run
           within
           bankes
           and
           bounds
           ,
           if
           it
           bee
           received
           in
           its
           true
           sense
           and
           meaning
           ;
           for
           by
           the
           call
           of
           a
           Minister
           must
           needs
           bee
           understood
           the
           voluntary
           subjection
           of
           all
           Church
           members
           to
           his
           ministery
           after
           hee
           is
           called
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           act
           of
           election
           of
           him
           at
           the
           first
           :
           It
           were
           irrationall
           to
           thinke
           a
           Minister
           is
           to
           bee
           chosen
           over
           againe
           ,
           whensoever
           a
           member
           is
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           .
           And
           therefore
           our
           meaning
           was
           not
           hard
           to
           conceive
           ,
           and
           being
           so
           taken
           ,
           women
           choose
           their
           Minister
           ,
           that
           is
           ,
           voluntarily
           submit
           to
           him
           being
           chosen
           :
           Children
           are
           subjected
           to
           him
           by
           their
           parents
           :
           the
           dissenting
           part
           of
           the
           Church
           ought
           to
           submit
           to
           him
           being
           chosen
           ,
           and
           doe
           if
           they
           remaine
           under
           his
           Ministry
           ;
           and
           so
           in
           all
           other
           cases
           you
           have
           or
           can
           suppose
           ▪
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Here
             you
             say
             people
             must
             joyne
             in
             the
             call
             of
             a
             Minister
             before
             they
             can
             lawfully
             desire
             and
             bee
             admitted
             to
             the
             seales
             .
             And
             another
             hath
             zealously
             affirmed
             ,
             It
             is
             a
             presumptuous
             sinne
             to
             choose
             an
             Officer
             not
             trayned
             up
             and
             ●ryed
             in
             debating
             ,
             discussing
             ,
             carrying
             and
             contriving
             Church
             affaires
             ,
             in
             admonishing
             ,
             exhorting
             ,
             comforting
             ,
             &c.
             
             Lay
             these
             together
             and
             consider
             how
             long
             many
             a
             poore
             soule
             converted
             to
             the
             faith
             must
             bee
             compelled
             to
             want
             Gods
             ordinances
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             ▪
          
           First
           ,
           it
           doth
           not
           answer
           the
           profession
           in
           the
           letter
           thus
           to
           joyne
           us
           with
           Mr.
           Robinson
           as
           another
           of
           the
           same
           sort
           as
           it
           were
           .
           For
           such
           as
           would
           gladly
           receive
           every
           Syllable
           from
           us
           that
           may
           dislodge
           their
           thoughts
           of
           separation
           in
           us
           (
           as
           wee
           are
           heartily
           desired
           to
           bee
           assured
           of
           in
           the
           Epistle
           to
           this
           Reply
           )
           wee
           thinke
           would
           not
           so
           closely
           joyne
           us
           with
           such
           they
           would
           have
           us
           parted
           from
           ;
           and
           upon
           so
           little
           occasion
           and
           to
           so
           little
           purpose
           ,
           unlesse
           they
           doe
           much
           forget
           themselves
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           when
           it
           cannot
           be
           denied
           but
           the
           choyse
           of
           Ministers
           is
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           that
           hands
           should
           not
           rashly
           bee
           laid
           on
           any
           man
           :
           and
           Deacons
           the
           lowest
           Office
           should
           bee
           proved
           and
           then
           Minister
           being
           found
           blamelesse
           ,
           yea
           hee
           saith
           and
           these
           also
           proved
           ,
           implying
           that
           others
           also
           should
           bee
           so
           ,
           1
           Tim.
           3.
           10.
           what
           fault
           can
           be
           found
           with
           the
           substance
           of
           what
           either
           Robinson
           or
           our selves
           speake
           ,
           if
           our
           meaning
           ,
           and
           his
           were
           but
           charitably
           taken
           ?
           If
           his
           word
           bee
           over-zealous
           to
           say
           it
           is
           a
           presumptuous
           
           sin
           to
           doe
           otherwise
           ,
           what
           is
           that
           to
           us
           ?
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           For
           the
           delay
           of
           ordinances
           ,
           if
           both
           these
           be
           taken
           together
           :
           in
           most
           cases
           it
           need
           not
           be
           long
           ,
           where
           God
           affordeth
           able
           and
           fit
           men
           for
           office
           .
           But
           if
           some
           delay
           be
           ,
           and
           that
           a
           church
           want
           some
           ordinances
           ,
           and
           cannot
           by
           Communion
           with
           other
           Churches
           injoy
           them
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           rare
           ,
           )
           yet
           is
           it
           not
           better
           to
           forbeare
           some
           ordinances
           a
           while
           ,
           then
           miscarry
           in
           so
           great
           a
           worke
           as
           the
           choise
           of
           officers
           ,
           upon
           which
           the
           following
           comfort
           and
           good
           of
           the
           Church
           doth
           so
           much
           depend
           ?
           The
           demand
           following
           is
           answered
           in
           this
           whole
           discourse
           ,
           and
           wee
           hope
           not
           with
           words
           but
           proofes
           ;
           especially
           in
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           Reply
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           :
           neither
           doe
           wee
           see
           any
           such
           difficulty
           ,
           but
           that
           such
           Christians
           may
           as
           easily
           joyne
           to
           such
           a
           Church
           for
           a
           time
           ,
           as
           desire
           to
           injoy
           the
           ordinances
           ,
           and
           to
           sit
           loose
           from
           it
           :
           for
           transient
           members
           we
           disallow
           not
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             propositions
             may
             stand
             for
             good
             ,
             I
             feare
             we
             shal
             scarce
             finde
             that
             ever
             in
             ordinary
             way
             the
             Sacraments
             were
             lawfully
             dispensed
             or
             received
             in
             the
             Christian
             Churches
             of
             God
             since
             the
             first
             foundation
             of
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           they
           bee
           taken
           in
           their
           true
           meaning
           ,
           and
           in
           that
           latitude
           we
           intend
           them
           ,
           wee
           see
           no
           such
           cause
           of
           scruple
           .
           For
           what
           is
           more
           ordinary
           in
           all
           true
           Churches
           ,
           then
           for
           people
           ,
           first
           to
           chuse
           their
           Ministers
           ,
           &
           then
           to
           receive
           the
           seals
           at
           their
           hands
           ?
           and
           this
           hath
           beene
           the
           way
           of
           Ancient
           reformers
           ,
           It
           is
           true
           ;
           many
           corruptions
           have
           beene
           in
           many
           true
           Churches
           ,
           and
           usurpations
           upon
           the
           right
           of
           the
           people
           in
           choosing
           their
           Ministers
           ,
           as
           also
           in
           administrations
           of
           the
           Ordinances
           themselves
           ,
           and
           oft
           in
           the
           Constitution
           of
           Churches
           .
           But
           as
           the
           maintaining
           of
           any
           truth
           of
           God
           against
           those
           corruptions
           in
           worship
           ,
           &c.
           doth
           not
           argue
           an
           unlawfulnesse
           of
           the
           ordinances
           in
           such
           Churches
           ,
           but
           convinceth
           onely
           the
           corrupt
           administration
           of
           them
           :
           So
           in
           this
           case
           to
           assent
           the
           right
           way
           of
           Churches
           electing
           officers
           ,
           and
           injoying
           Ordinances
           against
           all
           corruptions
           that
           have
           beene
           in
           the
           Churches
           ,
           doth
           not
           make
           a
           nullity
           of
           the
           Ordinances
           themselves
           .
           We
           may
           say
           that
           this
           conclusion
           riseth
           beyond
           measure
           .
           The
           objections
           being
           thus
           answered
           ,
           we
           leave
           the
           conclusion
           to
           the
           judgement
           of
           the
           indifferent
           Reader
           .
        
      
       
         
         
           CHAP.
           XII
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             TO
             the
             seventh
             consideration
             ,
             The
             practise
             of
             the
             Church
             of
             Strangers
             in
          
           London
           ,
           
             recorded
             by
          
           John
           Alasco
           ,
           
             is
             for
             differing
             from
             your
             judgment
             and
             practise
             in
             the
             point
             in
             question
             .
             For
             first
             ,
             say
             they
             ,
          
           Paul
           
             testifieth
             that
             the
             Church
             it self
             ,
             without
             exception
             of
             any
             member
             of
             it
             ,
             is
             cleane
             or
             holy
             by
             the
             administration
             of
             baptisme
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           confesse
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             They
             bold
             Communion
             with
             the
             Church
             of
          
           England
           
             as
             one
             with
             theirs
          
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           Church
           of
           England
           they
           call
           it
           not
           ,
           but
           the
           English
           Churches
           :
           and
           we
           deny
           not
           the
           same
           in
           an
           orderly
           way
           :
           as
           they
           also
           required
           Testimony
           of
           their
           piety
           ,
           if
           any
           did
           but
           present
           a
           child
           to
           baptisme
           in
           their
           Church
           .
           Wee
           have
           often
           professed
           this
           ,
           and
           by
           your
           owne
           grant
           most
           of
           the
           approved
           Christians
           amongst
           us
           are
           not
           members
           of
           the
           English
           Churches
           ,
           having
           renounced
           their
           right
           of
           membership
           and
           Commuion
           with
           the
           Church
           they
           were
           of
           there
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           
             This
             order
             was
             observed
             by
             them
             to
             prevent
             the
             impostures
             of
             some
             that
             pretended
             to
             the
             English
             they
             were
             joyned
             to
             the
             Strangers
          
           ;
           &
           contra
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           was
           not
           the
           onely
           reason
           of
           their
           order
           ;
           for
           his
           words
           are
           ,
           All
           strangers
           doe
           not
           joyne
           themselves
           to
           our
           Church
           ;
           yea
           there
           are
           those
           that
           
             avoiding
             all
             Churches
             ,
             &c.
          
           which
           plainely
           sheweth
           they
           looked
           further
           then
           such
           according
           to
           our
           practise
           :
           even
           their
           owne
           country
           men
           fled
           for
           religion
           ,
           as
           we
           are
           :
           they
           yet
           received
           them
           not
           till
           by
           publike
           profession
           of
           faith
           and
           subjection
           to
           discipline
           ,
           they
           joyned
           themselves
           to
           some
           Congregationall
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           this
           sheweth
           what
           disorder
           and
           abuse
           of
           ordinances
           will
           follow
           from
           such
           a
           liberty
           to
           admit
           such
           as
           are
           not
           joyned
           to
           some
           Church
           :
           for
           by
           this
           meanes
           many
           will
           neglect
           all
           order
           and
           discipline
           ,
           if
           they
           may
           but
           have
           the
           seales
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           to
           put
           all
           out
           of
           question
           that
           their
           practise
           and
           judgement
           in
           effect
           was
           the
           same
           with
           ours
           in
           this
           point
           ,
           note
           the
           first
           question
           propounded
           by
           them
           ,
           Are
           these
           Infants
           which
           you
           offer
           the
           ●eed
           of
           this
           ,
           Church
           that
           they
           may
           lawfully
           be
           here
           baptized
           by
           our
           Ministery
           ?
        
      
       
         
         
           CHAP.
           XIII
           .
        
         
           THus
           farre
           wee
           have
           answered
           to
           the
           Reply
           made
           to
           the
           considerations
           in
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           3.
           and
           4.
           positions
           .
           Now
           whereas
           wee
           tooke
           notice
           of
           three
           objections
           against
           our
           first
           consideration
           ,
           and
           answered
           the
           same
           :
           It
           pleaseth
           the
           learned
           authour
           to
           take
           up
           onely
           two
           of
           them
           ,
           and
           with
           much
           inlargement
           to
           urge
           the
           same
           as
           his
           reasons
           against
           the
           positions
           ,
           and
           to
           apply
           our
           answers
           thereunto
           ;
           by
           which
           meanes
           our
           answers
           to
           the
           objections
           briefly
           set
           downe
           may
           seeme
           not
           so
           apt
           and
           full
           here
           as
           they
           would
           appeare
           in
           their
           proper
           places
           :
           and
           therefore
           it
           will
           bee
           needfull
           for
           us
           to
           inlarge
           our selves
           somewhat
           in
           answering
           some
           passages
           at
           least
           in
           the
           reasons
           as
           they
           are
           here
           propounded
           ,
           before
           we
           come
           to
           the
           Reply
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Reason
           .
           1.
           
           
             That
             sacred
             order
             God
             hath
             set
             in
             his
             visible
             Church
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           These
           words
           with
           all
           that
           follow
           ,
           whatever
           they
           may
           seeme
           to
           carry
           with
           them
           ,
           are
           nothing
           but
           a
           bare
           denyall
           of
           the
           positions
           in
           variety
           of
           expressions
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             For
             first
             ,
             The
             baptisme
             of
          
           John
           
             was
             true
             baptisme
             ,
             &c.
             but
             hee
             never
             demanded
             of
             those
             hee
             received
             ,
             whether
             they
             were
             entered
             into
             Church
             Covenant
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           wee
           had
           in
           substance
           before
           ,
           and
           is
           answered
           (
           with
           all
           the
           other
           instances
           in
           this
           first
           reason
           )
           in
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           Reply
           to
           the
           first
           consideration
           ,
           and
           in
           other
           places
           ;
           and
           therefore
           in
           vaine
           here
           to
           repeat
           the
           same
           .
           And
           wee
           have
           observed
           more
           then
           once
           your
           plaine
           confession
           that
           the
           Apostles
           constituted
           Churches
           by
           baptisme
           ,
           even
           such
           Churches
           as
           they
           set
           Elders
           in
           by
           the
           election
           of
           the
           people
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             second
             reason
             in
             substance
             is
             this
             ,
             because
             from
             Christ
             and
             the
             constant
             practise
             of
             the
             Apostles
             we
             learne
             ,
             that
             such
             as
             are
             called
             of
             God
             ,
             received
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             ,
             beleeve
             in
             the
             Lord
             ,
             professe
             their
             faith
             in
             him
             with
             repentance
             and
             amendment
             of
             life
             ,
             have
             a
             right
             to
             baptisme
             ,
             and
             desiring
             it
             are
             wronged
             if
             they
             bee
             deprived
             thereof
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           grant
           the
           whole
           ;
           but
           as
           it
           is
           supposed
           in
           due
           order
           they
           must
           receive
           it
           ;
           so
           wee
           desire
           no
           more
           ,
           for
           wee
           grant
           upon
           these
           common
           grounds
           ,
           such
           have
           
             jus
             ad
             rem
          
           ,
           but
           not
           
             jus
             in
             re
          
           ,
           and
           the
           immediate
           fruition
           of
           them
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           
             By
             a
             lively
             faith
             a
             man
             hath
             internal
             Communion
             with
             Christ
             ,
             by
             profession
             of
             the
             intire
             faith
             joyned
             with
             conformity
             of
             life
             in
             righteousnes
             ,
          
           
           
             holinesse
             and
             fellowship
             of
             love
             ,
             hee
             is
             a
             member
             of
             the
             visible
             Congregation
             or
             flock
             of
             Christ
             ,
             though
             no
             set
             member
             of
             a
             free
             Independent
             society
             :
             and
             baptisme
             is
             a
             seale
             of
             our
             admission
             into
             the
             flocke
             of
             Christ
             ;
             not
             ever
             more
             ,
             but
             by
             accident
             ,
             of
             our
             receiving
             into
             a
             particular
             Congregation
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           reason
           stands
           upon
           such
           a
           sense
           of
           the
           Catholik
           Church
           as
           cannot
           be
           found
           :
           and
           it
           was
           before
           confessed
           that
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           consisteth
           of
           all
           true
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           as
           the
           parts
           of
           it
           .
           And
           therefore
           how
           can
           a
           man
           be
           visibly
           a
           member
           of
           the
           whole
           ,
           and
           belong
           to
           no
           part
           thereof
           ?
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           We
           deny
           not
           but
           such
           have
           a
           right
           to
           be
           in
           the
           particular
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           to
           baptisme
           and
           all
           ordinances
           ?
           but
           as
           by
           such
           profession
           they
           are
           not
           members
           of
           any
           particular
           Church
           ,
           so
           neither
           have
           they
           immediate
           right
           to
           the
           priviledges
           thereof
           without
           admittance
           into
           the
           same
           .
           Fit
           matter
           ,
           such
           are
           for
           a
           particular
           visible
           Church
           that
           professe
           the
           intire
           faith
           ,
           &c.
           
           But
           it
           doth
           not
           admit
           them
           actually
           thereunto
           :
           and
           your
           owne
           expression
           secretly
           implyeth
           as
           much
           ,
           when
           you
           say
           baptisme
           is
           a
           seale
           of
           our
           admission
           into
           the
           Church
           or
           flocke
           of
           Christ
           ;
           If
           baptisme
           bee
           the
           seale
           of
           our
           admission
           ,
           then
           there
           is
           an
           admission
           thereunto
           before
           baptisme
           :
           but
           who
           doth
           admit
           ,
           and
           where
           ,
           and
           when
           is
           any
           admitted
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           in
           particular
           Congregations
           ?
           Can
           any
           bee
           admitted
           into
           a
           Church
           ,
           that
           whole
           Church
           being
           ignorant
           thereof
           ?
           but
           a
           man
           may
           professe
           the
           intire
           faith
           ,
           and
           live
           accordingly
           amongst
           the
           Heathen
           ,
           where
           neither
           any
           Church
           nor
           member
           of
           it
           take
           knowledge
           thereof
           ;
           and
           therefore
           bare
           profession
           doth
           not
           admit
           men
           ,
           but
           make
           them
           fit
           to
           bee
           received
           and
           admitted
           into
           the
           visible
           Church
           .
        
         
           Your
           fourth
           Reason
           wee
           have
           had
           twice
           before
           ,
           and
           answered
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             To
             our
             answer
             of
             the
             first
             objection
             ;
             from
             the
             Instances
             of
             the
             Centurion
             ,
          
           Lydia
           ,
           
             the
             Jailour
             ,
             and
             the
             Eunuch
             .
          
        
         
           
             First
             ,
             If
             where
             the
             holy
             Ghost
             is
             given
             and
             received
             ,
             and
             faith
             professed
             according
             to
             Gods
             Ordinance
             ,
             there
             none
             may
             hinder
             from
             being
             baptized
             (
             soil
             ▪
             by
             such
             as
             have
             power
             to
             baptize
             them
             ,
             )
             then
             either
             such
             are
             members
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             or
             baptisme
             is
             not
             a
             priviledge
             of
             the
             Church
             ;
             then
             it
             is
             not
             essentiall
             to
             baptisme
             in
             the
             first
             institution
             that
             it
             should
             bee
             dispensed
             to
             none
             but
             members
             of
             a
             Congregationall
             assembly
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           is
           freely
           granted
           ,
           First
           ,
           That
           baptisme
           is
           a
           priviledge
           of
           the
           
           Church
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           such
           as
           professe
           the
           faith
           ,
           and
           have
           received
           the
           Holy
           Ghost
           ,
           are
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           (
           if
           by
           Church
           bee
           meant
           the
           Church
           mysticall
           considered
           as
           visible
           ,
           though
           not
           alwayes
           political
           )
           Thirdly
           ,
           that
           these
           may
           receive
           baptisme
           by
           such
           as
           have
           power
           to
           baptize
           them
           ;
           but
           immediately
           to
           baptize
           them
           ,
           none
           had
           power
           but
           by
           an
           extraordinary
           call
           of
           God
           so
           to
           doe
           ,
           as
           hath
           bin
           formerly
           shewed
           .
           But
           it
           wil
           not
           hence
           follow
           ,
           that
           ordinary
           officers
           have
           such
           a
           power
           ,
           (
           wanting
           such
           extraordinary
           call
           )
           because
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           Catholicke
           having
           right
           unto
           the
           seales
           ;
           yet
           the
           immediate
           fruition
           of
           them
           ,
           they
           must
           have
           by
           ordinary
           officers
           in
           a
           politicall
           body
           ,
           the
           onely
           subject
           according
           to
           order
           of
           all
           such
           institutions
           :
           otherwise
           we
           must
           admit
           private
           baptismes
           ,
           if
           the
           extraordinary
           examples
           of
           the
           Apostles
           be
           pressed
           for
           our
           patterne
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Then
             the
             Apostles
             in
             dispensing
             seales
             walked
             by
             rules
             of
             Scripture
             and
             grounds
             common
             to
             us
             ,
             and
             then
             the
             difficulty
             remaining
             is
             onely
             this
             :
             Whether
             a
             Pastour
             may
             dispense
             seales
             to
             such
             as
             have
             right
             to
             them
             and
             do
             orderly
             desire
             them
             ,
             though
             hee
             be
             not
             yet
             a
             set
             member
             of
             a
             Congregation
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           the
           Apostles
           ordinarily
           and
           generally
           baptized
           upon
           common
           grounds
           ,
           but
           still
           when
           they
           did
           so
           they
           received
           them
           into
           some
           particular
           Church
           ;
           and
           so
           baptized
           them
           :
           and
           in
           the
           like
           orderly
           way
           any
           pastour
           may
           doe
           the
           same
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           we
           answer
           ,
           things
           may
           bee
           done
           (
           
             sano
             sensu
          
           )
           upon
           common
           and
           morall
           grounds
           ,
           and
           yet
           may
           not
           be
           done
           by
           others
           upon
           the
           same
           grounds
           .
           To
           give
           one
           instance
           in
           stead
           of
           many
           :
           the
           Apostles
           preached
           the
           Gospel
           to
           gather
           in
           the
           elect
           of
           God
           and
           to
           edifie
           the
           Church
           &c.
           and
           Ministers
           upon
           the
           same
           common
           grounds
           must
           now
           preach
           the
           Gospel
           also
           :
           yet
           in
           that
           the
           Apostles
           on
           those
           grounds
           preached
           to
           all
           Nations
           ,
           this
           doth
           not
           warrant
           Ministers
           now
           to
           do
           the
           like
           :
           so
           here
           though
           we
           baptize
           beleevers
           as
           they
           did
           ,
           yet
           wee
           may
           not
           do
           it
           to
           all
           in
           all
           cases
           as
           they
           did
           .
           And
           therefore
           the
           rule
           holds
           onely
           when
           all
           circumstances
           are
           alike
           as
           well
           as
           the
           Common
           grounds
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             In
             the
             instance
             given
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             probable
             that
             baptisme
             was
             evermore
             administred
             by
             the
             Apostles
             or
             Evangelists
             .
             For
             before
             the
             death
             of
             Christ
             the
             Disciples
             baptized
             ,
             when
             they
             were
             neither
             Apostles
             nor
             Evangelists
             properly
             .
             After
             the
             death
             of
             Christ
             ,
             &c.
             If
          
           Philip
           ,
           Ananias
           ,
           
             and
             others
             might
             baptize
             such
             as
             were
             no
             members
             of
             particular
             Congregations
             ,
             then
             may
             ordinary
             Pastours
             doe
             the
             like
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           You
           mistake
           here
           in
           the
           force
           of
           our
           answer
           ,
           as
           hath
           beene
           
           shewed
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           ,
           to
           which
           this
           objection
           and
           answer
           belong
           .
           For
           wee
           doe
           not
           make
           all
           the
           Acts
           of
           the
           Apostles
           and
           Evangelists
           extraordinary
           ,
           but
           generally
           orderly
           in
           the
           way
           wee
           professe
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           wee
           answer
           to
           the
           particulars
           ,
           (
           not
           to
           wrastle
           with
           the
           Ghosts
           of
           humane
           imaginations
           and
           conjectures
           ,
           whether
           any
           besides
           the
           Apostles
           baptized
           the
           3000.
           
           Act.
           2.
           )
           As
           for
           Philip
           and
           Ananias
           if
           they
           baptized
           ,
           did
           they
           baptize
           as
           private
           men
           ,
           or
           as
           Church
           Officers
           ?
           If
           the
           second
           ,
           what
           Officers
           were
           they
           ?
           ordinary
           or
           extraordinary
           ?
           Wee
           thinke
           it
           will
           not
           bee
           thought
           they
           were
           ordinary
           who
           were
           honoured
           with
           such
           extraordinary
           worke
           :
           But
           in
           what
           Office
           soever
           they
           were
           ,
           those
           particular
           actions
           (
           in
           baptizing
           the
           Eunuch
           and
           Paul
           )
           were
           done
           by
           an
           immediate
           call
           of
           God
           ,
           as
           is
           evident
           in
           the
           story
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Thirdly
           ,
           
             It
             is
             very
             improbable
             that
             the
             persons
             baptized
             were
             in
             Church
             State
             ,
             or
             Order
             .
             If
             they
             were
             members
             of
             the
             Jewish
             Church
             not
             yet
             dissolved
             ,
             this
             is
             not
             to
             the
             purpose
             ,
             for
             men
             have
             not
             right
             to
             baptisme
             ,
             because
             members
             of
             the
             Jewish
             Church
             ,
             but
             because
             Disciples
             ,
             and
             as
             you
             say
             ,
             joyned
             together
             in
             Covenant
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           ,
           that
           since
           the
           visible
           kingdome
           of
           Christ
           was
           set
           up
           in
           visible
           Christian
           Churches
           ,
           the
           seales
           belong
           properly
           and
           ordinarily
           to
           the
           members
           of
           Christian
           Churches
           not
           Jewish
           :
           yet
           wee
           may
           affirme
           that
           if
           in
           any
           speciall
           case
           a
           beleever
           was
           baptized
           by
           any
           that
           had
           a
           speciall
           call
           thereto
           ,
           where
           there
           was
           no
           Christian
           Church
           present
           actually
           to
           joyne
           unto
           :
           yet
           being
           a
           member
           of
           the
           Jewish
           Church
           not
           yet
           dissolved
           ,
           the
           case
           does
           not
           so
           much
           vary
           from
           the
           set
           ▪
           Order
           of
           Christ
           in
           those
           times
           ,
           and
           that
           is
           all
           wee
           intend
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             Eunuch
             ,
             and
             Centurion
             were
             proselytes
             ,
             and
             of
             the
             Jewish
             Church
             ,
             the
             Samaritans
             whom
             Philip
             baptized
             were
             not
             so
             ,
             and
             that
             any
             Gentiles
             ,
             or
             the
             Jaylour
             were
             set
             members
             of
             a
             Christian
             assembly
             ,
             is
             very
             strange
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           is
           fully
           answered
           before
           in
           the
           first
           consideration
           ;
           and
           that
           which
           is
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           and
           mind
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           the
           first
           ,
           and
           common
           practise
           of
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           Act.
           2.
           to
           joyne
           men
           to
           the
           Church
           when
           they
           baptized
           them
           ,
           need
           not
           seeme
           strange
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             Apostles
             practise
             two
             things
             are
             to
             bee
             considered
             .
             First
             ,
             the
             circumstance
             of
             the
             action
             .
             Secondly
             ,
             the
             substance
             or
             quality
             of
             the
             Act.
             In
             some
             circumstances
             the
             baptizing
             of
             some
             of
             these
             might
             bee
             extraordinary
             ,
             but
             the
             substance
             ,
             and
             quality
             of
             the
             action
             was
             grounded
             upon
          
           
           
             ●ules
             perpetuall
             ,
             and
             common
             to
             us
             and
             them
             .
             That
             is
             done
             in
             an
             extraordinary
             way
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Wee
           suppose
           amongst
           such
           Circumstances
           you
           will
           reckon
           that
           for
           one
           ,
           that
           the
           Eunuch
           was
           baptized
           alone
           in
           the
           Wildernesse
           ,
           not
           in
           any
           visible
           assembly
           of
           Saints
           .
           Wherein
           ordinary
           Pastors
           may
           not
           imitate
           that
           Act
           :
           and
           this
           comes
           not
           farre
           short
           of
           what
           wee
           say
           :
           for
           the
           chiefe
           proof
           that
           they
           were
           not
           received
           into
           a
           particular
           Church
           ,
           lies
           in
           their
           absence
           from
           such
           an
           assembly
           :
           and
           if
           they
           might
           bee
           admitted
           to
           the
           Catholick
           Church
           without
           the
           presence
           of
           any
           Christian
           (
           but
           him
           that
           baptized
           them
           )
           why
           not
           into
           a
           particular
           Church
           as
           well
           ?
           2
           The
           large
           discourse
           about
           the
           Apostles
           extraordinary
           power
           ,
           and
           doing
           things
           upon
           common
           grounds
           :
           is
           so
           oft
           said
           for
           substance
           ,
           and
           answered
           before
           ,
           that
           it
           were
           vaine
           to
           trouble
           the
           Reader
           againe
           with
           the
           same
           thing
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Secondly
             ,
             an
             argument
             followes
             necessarily
             from
             a
             particular
             example
             to
             a
             generall
             ,
             when
             the
             proofe
             of
             one
             particular
             to
             another
             is
             made
             by
             force
             of
             the
             similitude
             common
             to
             the
             whole
             kind
             under
             which
             those
             particulars
             are
             contained
             .
             Now
             in
             this
             matter
             wee
             speake
             of
             ;
             no
             reason
             can
             bee
             named
             why
             wee
             should
             thinke
             it
             lawfull
             for
             the
             Apostles
             to
             baptize
             such
             as
             were
             no
             set
             members
             ,
             and
             the
             same
             should
             be
             unlawfull
             in
             all
             cases
             for
             Pastors
             of
             particular
             Congregations
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           deny
           that
           the
           Apostles
           did
           so
           ordinarily
           ,
           and
           therefore
           your
           Argument
           doth
           not
           hold
           ;
           if
           it
           bee
           built
           upon
           the
           common
           practise
           ;
           but
           if
           it
           be
           built
           upon
           some
           few
           speciall
           cases
           ▪
           we
           retort
           the
           Argument
           thus
           :
           That
           which
           the
           Apostles
           did
           ordinarily
           upon
           common
           grounds
           ,
           that
           Pastors
           ought
           to
           doe
           :
           but
           ordinarily
           they
           baptized
           Disciples
           ,
           admitting
           them
           first
           into
           particular
           Churches
           ;
           therefore
           in
           the
           third
           reason
           wee
           grant
           the
           conclusion
           of
           it
           ,
           that
           the
           Apostles
           did
           walke
           by
           ordinary
           rules
           generally
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Fourthly
             ,
             the
             practise
             of
             the
             Apostles
             in
             receiving
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             &c.
             is
             backed
             on
             divine
             precept
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           you
           meane
           they
           baptized
           such
           without
           receiving
           them
           into
           some
           particular
           Church
           ,
           wee
           deny
           this
           assumption
           upon
           the
           grounds
           laid
           downe
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Fiftly
             ,
             In
             the
             first
             consideration
             you
             prove
             the
             seales
             to
             be
             the
             priviledge
             of
             the
             Church
             in
             ordinary
             dispensation
             by
             this
             passage
             of
             Scripture
             ,
             Then
             they
             that
             gladly
             received
             the
             word
             were
             baptized
             :
             but
             if
             the
             Apostles
             baptized
             by
             extraordinary
             dispensation
             in
             your
             sense
             this
             testimony
             is
             insufficient
             for
             that
             purpose
             .
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Although
           the
           printed
           Copy
           of
           our
           answer
           omit
           this
           proofe
           wholly
           ,
           and
           also
           ,
           Rom.
           9.
           4
           ▪
           yet
           in
           our
           true
           Cypy
           wee
           alledged
           ,
           Acts
           2
           41
           ,
           42.
           47.
           wherein
           you
           will
           finde
           not
           onely
           this
           passage
           ,
           Then
           they
           that
           gladly
           received
           the
           word
           were
           baptized
           :
           but
           withall
           that
           they
           were
           added
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           such
           a
           Church
           as
           continued
           stedfastly
           in
           the
           fellowship
           ,
           &c.
           of
           the
           Apostles
           .
        
         
           Likewise
           Verse
           47.
           that
           the
           conversion
           ,
           and
           baptizing
           of
           Disciples
           being
           omitted
           ,
           the
           joyning
           or
           adding
           to
           the
           Church
           is
           put
           in
           the
           stead
           thereof
           ,
           which
           proofes
           as
           they
           are
           omitted
           wholly
           in
           the
           printed
           Copy
           ,
           so
           also
           you
           make
           no
           reply
           unto
           them
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           by
           these
           proofes
           it
           might
           easily
           have
           been
           seene
           that
           wee
           did
           not
           looke
           upon
           all
           the
           Apostles
           acts
           in
           this
           case
           of
           Baptisme
           as
           extraordinary
           ▪
           but
           that
           their
           first
           and
           leading
           examples
           were
           ordinary
           ,
           and
           in
           that
           order
           wee
           plead
           for
           :
           which
           if
           it
           had
           been
           regarded
           ,
           much
           labour
           had
           been
           saved
           in
           this
           dispute
           ,
           which
           hath
           been
           spent
           to
           little
           purpose
           .
           And
           ,
        
         
           Our
           second
           Reason
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             due
             order
             the
             seale●
             belong
             to
             them
             to
             whom
             the
             grant
             is
             given
             ,
             but
             the
             grant
             is
             vouchsafed
             to
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             and
             their
             seed
             ,
             forgivenesse
             of
             sinnes
             ,
             &c.
             and
             the
             benefits
             of
             the
             Covenant
             are
             so
             linked
             together
             ,
             that
             where
             one
             is
             granted
             none
             is
             denyed
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           'T
           is
           true
           ,
           the
           Seales
           belong
           to
           all
           them
           by
           a
           remote
           right
           to
           whom
           the
           grant
           is
           given
           ,
           (
           as
           hath
           been
           oft
           said
           )
           but
           not
           immediate
           :
           yet
           in
           the
           very
           propounding
           of
           this
           reason
           wee
           may
           observe
           two
           things
           that
           doe
           cut
           the
           ●●ewes
           of
           it
           .
           1
           The
           limitation
           of
           due
           order
           ,
           which
           as
           hath
           been
           said
           can
           no
           where
           be
           found
           but
           in
           a
           particular
           Church
           .
           Let
           any
           shew
           what
           order
           Christ
           hath
           put
           his
           Catholick
           visible
           Church
           into
           ,
           or
           where
           that
           order
           is
           to
           bee
           seene
           but
           in
           particular
           Churches
           ,
           by
           which
           order
           every
           one
           is
           bound
           to
           joyne
           to
           such
           Churches
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           to
           partake
           in
           the
           outward
           Ordinances
           of
           Gods
           worship
           ,
           which
           are
           there
           onely
           to
           be
           found
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           is
           granted
           that
           not
           onely
           forgivenesse
           of
           sins
           ,
           but
           all
           other
           benefits
           of
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           are
           linked
           together
           ,
           and
           are
           the
           grant
           sealed
           up
           in
           the
           Sacrament
           ;
           and
           if
           so
           ,
           is
           not
           visible
           conjunction
           with
           Christ
           and
           his
           Church
           ;
           with
           all
           the
           priviledges
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           ordinances
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           part
           of
           that
           grant
           by
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           ,
           or
           of
           the
           Gospell
           ?
           wee
           suppose
           none
           would
           deny
           it
           ,
           why
           then
           should
           not
           visible
           beleevers
           require
           ,
           and
           take
           up
           this
           part
           of
           the
           grant
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           the
           seale
           of
           it
           ?
           for
           
             sigillum
             sequitur
             donum
          
           ;
           let
           them
           take
           this
           gift
           and
           the
           seale
           
           is
           ready
           for
           them
           .
           And
           this
           may
           answer
           the
           first
           part
           of
           the
           Reply
           about
           Rom.
           4.
           11.
           as
           also
           all
           the
           rest
           which
           followes
           being
           things
           so
           oft
           repeated
           ,
           and
           answered
           before
           ,
           as
           make
           it
           tedious
           to
           all
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           XIIII
           .
        
         
           
             Position
             5.
             
          
           
             THat
             the
             power
             of
             excommunication
             is
             so
             in
             the
             body
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             that
             what
             the
             major
             part
             shall
             allow
             must
             bee
             done
             ,
             though
             the
             Pastors
             and
             Governors
             ,
             and
             the
             rest
             of
             the
             assembly
             be
             of
             another
             mind
             ,
             and
             that
             peradventure
             upon
             more
             substantiall
             reasons
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             This
             question
             is
             much
             mistaken
             ,
             for
             the
             demand
             is
             not
             ,
             Whether
             in
             the
             Congregation
             matters
             should
             be
             carried
             by
             number
             of
             votes
             against
             God
             ,
             as
             you
             interpret
             the
             position
             ,
             but
             whether
             the
             power
             of
             excommunication
             so
             lie
             in
             the
             body
             of
             the
             Congregation
             as
             that
             sentence
             must
             proceed
             in
          
           externo
           foro
           ,
           
             according
             to
             the
             vote
             and
             determination
             of
             the
             major
             part
             ,
             and
             so
             in
             admissions
             of
             members
             ,
             &c.
             and
             though
             they
             have
             no
             power
             against
             God
             ,
             but
             for
             God
             ,
             yet
             in
             execution
             of
             that
             power
             they
             may
             bee
             divided
             in
             judgement
             ,
             and
             one
             part
             must
             erre
             ▪
             Now
             hence
             the
             question
             is
             moved
             ,
             Whether
             the
             power
             hee
             so
             in
             the
             people
             ,
             that
             what
             the
             major
             part
             determine
             must
             stand
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           our
           whole
           answer
           had
           been
           attended
           unto
           ,
           it
           is
           so
           cleare
           and
           full
           ,
           that
           it
           could
           not
           with
           any
           shew
           of
           reason
           bee
           subject
           to
           such
           a
           mistake
           :
           To
           omit
           the
           first
           part
           of
           our
           answer
           affirmatively
           ,
           wherein
           wee
           cite
           Mr.
           Parker
           as
           consenting
           with
           him
           .
           In
           the
           second
           part
           to
           the
           position
           as
           stated
           ,
           our
           answer
           is
           plainely
           negative
           ,
           that
           excommunication
           is
           not
           so
           seated
           ,
           neither
           ought
           to
           bee
           so
           in
           any
           of
           the
           Churches
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           .
           What
           followes
           is
           our
           reason
           grounded
           upon
           the
           last
           clause
           of
           the
           position
           ,
           because
           Churches
           ought
           to
           carry
           things
           not
           by
           number
           of
           votes
           against
           God
           (
           as
           this
           position
           implies
           )
           but
           by
           strength
           of
           Rule
           and
           Reason
           according
           to
           God
           ,
           and
           for
           edification
           ,
           2
           
             Cor.
             13.
             8.
             2
             
             Cor.
          
           10.
           8.
           
           Now
           let
           any
           judge
           whether
           the
           position
           doth
           not
           imply
           such
           an
           absurdity
           so
           oft
           as
           things
           should
           bee
           carried
           by
           the
           major
           vote
           against
           the
           Officers
           ,
           and
           the
           rest
           having
           better
           Reasons
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           are
           apt
           to
           think
           that
           if
           the
           learned
           author
           had
           been
           so
           ready
           to
           embrace
           any
           syllable
           that
           lends
           to
           dislodge
           these
           
           thoughts
           of
           us
           as
           leaning
           to
           separation
           ,
           hee
           would
           have
           beleeved
           our
           plaine
           negation
           of
           this
           position
           ,
           which
           indeed
           is
           according
           to
           our
           constant
           practise
           never
           following
           the
           major
           part
           of
           votes
           against
           the
           Officers
           ,
           but
           counting
           it
           the
           duty
           of
           the
           Officers
           in
           such
           cases
           either
           to
           satisfie
           the
           consciences
           of
           the
           major
           part
           (
           or
           lesser
           )
           by
           the
           rule
           of
           the
           word
           ,
           or
           to
           yeeld
           not
           to
           the
           vote
           but
           reasons
           if
           they
           bee
           stranger
           ;
           or
           to
           suspend
           the
           businesse
           ,
           and
           referre
           to
           the
           counsell
           of
           other
           Churches
           ,
           if
           they
           cannot
           agree
           but
           a
           division
           arise
           according
           to
           the
           patterne
           ,
           Act.
           15.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Amongst
             them
             that
             hold
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keyes
             to
             bee
             given
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             some
             (
             as
          
           Fenner
           ,
           Parker
           ,
           I.
           D.
           )
           
             distinguish
             between
             the
             power
             it selfe
             which
             they
             give
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             the
             execution
             which
             they
             confine
             to
             the
             Presbytery
             ,
             others
             give
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keyes
             with
             the
             exercise
             thereof
             to
             the
             whole
             body
             of
             the
             Church
             ;
             or
             if
             in
             the
             dispensation
             they
             attribute
             any
             thing
             to
             the
             Officers
             ,
             it
             is
             but
             as
             servants
             of
             the
             Church
             from
             whom
             they
             derive
             their
             authority
             ,
             and
             here
             lies
             the
             stone
             at
             which
             the
             Separation
             stumble
             ,
             and
             which
             wee
             conceive
             to
             bee
             your
             judgement
             and
             practise
             ,
             wherein
             wee
             required
             your
             plaine
             answer
             ,
             but
             have
             received
             no
             satisfaction
             .
             You
             referre
             us
             to
             Mr.
          
           Parkers
           
             Reasons
             to
             prove
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keyes
             belong
             to
             the
             whole
             Church
             ,
             who
             are
             of
             farre
             differing
             judgement
             from
             him
             in
             the
             point
             it selfe
             ,
             and
             if
             your
             judgement
             and
             practise
             bee
             as
             the
             Separation
             (
             as
             wee
             feare
             )
             you
             dissent
             from
             him
             and
             wee
             from
             you
             in
             these
             considerations
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           are
           sorry
           to
           see
           this
           Reverend
           man
           of
           God
           so
           strongly
           possessed
           with
           a
           prejudicate
           opinion
           and
           feare
           of
           our
           concurrence
           with
           the
           Separation
           :
           (
           upon
           what
           grounds
           it
           is
           not
           said
           ,
           nor
           can
           wee
           apprehend
           )
           That
           neither
           our
           flat
           negation
           of
           the
           position
           ,
           nor
           our
           reference
           to
           Mr.
           Parker
           as
           concurring
           with
           him
           ,
           should
           give
           him
           any
           satisfaction
           to
           the
           contrary
           .
           But
           if
           that
           bee
           the
           judgement
           ,
           and
           practise
           of
           the
           Separation
           which
           is
           here
           imputed
           unto
           them
           ,
           viz.
           That
           the
           power
           and
           exercise
           of
           the
           Keys
           is
           in
           the
           body
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           what
           the
           Officers
           doe
           therein
           is
           but
           as
           servants
           of
           the
           Church
           from
           whom
           they
           derive
           their
           authority
           ;
           if
           our
           profession
           may
           bee
           of
           any
           use
           to
           satisfie
           ,
           wee
           doe
           freely
           ,
           and
           heartily
           professe
           to
           the
           contrary
           :
           affirming
           that
           the
           authoritative
           power
           of
           transacting
           all
           things
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           is
           in
           the
           hands
           of
           the
           Officers
           who
           minister
           in
           the
           name
           and
           power
           of
           Christ
           to
           and
           over
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           that
           the
           power
           or
           liberty
           of
           the
           community
           whereby
           they
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           concurre
           with
           their
           guides
           ,
           so
           long
           as
           they
           rule
           in
           the
           Lord
           ,
           is
           to
           bee
           carried
           in
           a
           way
           of
           obedience
           
           unto
           them
           ,
           and
           when
           upon
           just
           cause
           they
           dissent
           from
           them
           ,
           still
           they
           are
           to
           walke
           respectfully
           towards
           them
           ,
           and
           wee
           thinke
           our
           brethren
           are
           not
           ignorant
           that
           Mr.
           Parker
           and
           Fenner
           give
           as
           much
           to
           the
           Church
           in
           excommunication
           ,
           as
           wee
           have
           pleaded
           for
           in
           any
           of
           our
           publique
           writings
           .
           But
           seeing
           wee
           are
           led
           by
           this
           learned
           author
           from
           this
           particular
           question
           about
           excommunication
           to
           that
           beaten
           controversie
           of
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           in
           generall
           ,
           and
           the
           first
           subject
           thereof
           ,
           whereby
           wee
           are
           forced
           to
           declare
           our selves
           herein
           ;
           wee
           shall
           briefly
           gleane
           up
           some
           few
           of
           our
           scattered
           apprehensions
           ,
           as
           may
           most
           concerne
           the
           case
           in
           hand
           .
        
         
           1
           There
           are
           divers
           Keyes
           that
           are
           diversly
           distributed
           to
           severall
           subjects
           in
           respect
           of
           execution
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           question
           should
           have
           beene
           first
           stated
           :
           and
           what
           Keyes
           are
           denied
           to
           the
           people
           and
           appropriated
           to
           the
           Officers
           .
           And
           what
           to
           some
           Officers
           ,
           not
           to
           others
           ,
           should
           have
           been
           shewed
           before
           Arguments
           were
           pressed
           .
        
         
           2
           The
           state
           of
           the
           Church
           being
           mixed
           of
           an
           Aristocracy
           to
           
           which
           belongs
           Office
           ,
           and
           Democracy
           to
           which
           belongs
           priviledge
           ;
           hence
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           is
           twofold
           .
           1
           *
           Officiall
           power
           .
           2
           Fraternall
           .
           The
           first
           belonging
           to
           the
           guides
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           the
           other
           to
           the
           fraternity
           thereof
           .
        
         
           3
           The
           officiall
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           is
           a
           power
           to
           act
           with
           authority
           in
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           ministerially
           in
           opening
           and
           shutting
           ,
           binding
           and
           loosing
           ,
           &c.
           
           In
           respect
           of
           which
           Office
           (
           while
           the
           Minister
           acts
           according
           to
           the
           will
           of
           Christ
           )
           he
           is
           over
           the
           Church
           in
           things
           properly
           Ecclesiasticall
           ,
           because
           hee
           stands
           in
           the
           roome
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           comes
           in
           his
           name
           ,
           and
           hence
           in
           those
           Church
           acts
           which
           are
           not
           proper
           to
           him
           ,
           but
           common
           in
           some
           cases
           to
           the
           fraternitie
           ,
           yet
           there
           is
           an
           office-authority
           upon
           them
           ,
           which
           is
           not
           upon
           the
           like
           acts
           materially
           done
           by
           others
           .
           
             Ex.
             gr
          
           .
           Any
           brother
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           exhort
           ▪
           and
           rebuke
           ,
           1
           
             Thes
             .
             5.
             14.
             
             Heb.
             3.
             13.
             
             Titus
          
           a
           Minister
           is
           exhorted
           to
           doe
           the
           same
           thing
           ,
           but
           with
           all
           authority
           ,
           Titus
           2.
           15.
           some
           able
           and
           gifted
           ,
           though
           not
           in
           Office
           ,
           may
           occasionally
           open
           and
           apply
           the
           word
           ,
           yet
           not
           with
           an
           Office-authority
           .
           But
           an
           Officer
           preacheth
           as
           an
           Ambassadour
           of
           Christ
           ,
           2
           Cor.
           5.
           
           So
           also
           in
           admission
           of
           members
           ,
           and
           casting
           out
           of
           offenders
           (
           wherein
           though
           the
           fraternity
           have
           a
           power
           whether
           in
           consenting
           or
           otherwise
           )
           yet
           they
           act
           obedientially
           in
           respect
           of
           their
           guides
           ,
           declaring
           the
           rule
           ,
           going
           
           before
           them
           in
           example
           ,
           and
           commanding
           them
           (
           if
           need
           bee
           )
           in
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           to
           doe
           his
           pleasure
           .
           But
           the
           Officers
           act
           in
           these
           things
           in
           the
           name
           and
           authority
           of
           him
           in
           whose
           roome
           they
           stand
           ,
           and
           hence
           wee
           thinke
           that
           in
           case
           the
           fraternity
           without
           Officers
           should
           cast
           out
           any
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           not
           altogether
           the
           same
           with
           that
           which
           may
           bee
           dispensed
           by
           the
           Officers
           thereof
           ,
           it
           being
           no
           officiall
           act
           .
        
         
           2
           Fraternall
           power
           (
           in
           publike
           Church
           acts
           )
           is
           a
           joynt
           power
           of
           liberty
           or
           priviledge
           (
           in
           some
           sense
           ,
           &
           in
           some
           cases
           )
           to
           open
           ,
           &
           shut
           ;
           which
           power
           is
           not
           in
           any
           one
           or
           more
           severally
           ;
           but
           in
           the
           whole
           joyntly
           ,
           for
           as
           they
           have
           power
           to
           combine
           ,
           and
           so
           to
           receive
           others
           into
           the
           communion
           ,
           so
           by
           like
           reason
           to
           shut
           out
           offenders
           from
           their
           communion
           ;
           but
           thus
           they
           do
           fraternally
           ,
           not
           officially
           :
           and
           as
           they
           have
           such
           a
           power
           of
           election
           of
           Officers
           to
           them
           ,
           so
           they
           have
           also
           a
           fraternall
           power
           (
           due
           order
           being
           attended
           )
           to
           shut
           them
           out
           (
           when
           there
           is
           just
           cause
           )
           according
           to
           the
           common
           received
           rule
           ,
           
             Cujus
             est
             instituere
             ,
             ejusdem
             est
             &
             destituere
             .
          
        
         
           These
           things
           which
           might
           bee
           more
           fully
           explained
           and
           confirmed
           ,
           wee
           have
           onely
           briefly
           set
           downe
           both
           to
           wash
           off
           the
           blot
           of
           popular
           Government
           from
           the
           wayes
           of
           Christ
           ,
           as
           if
           all
           authority
           were
           taken
           from
           the
           Ministers
           ,
           or
           nothing
           left
           them
           but
           to
           dispense
           the
           seales
           ,
           and
           in
           all
           other
           things
           to
           sit
           meerely
           as
           a
           moderator
           in
           the
           Churches
           of
           Christ
           ,
           which
           wee
           utterly
           disclaime
           .
        
         
           And
           also
           to
           make
           way
           for
           our
           more
           cleare
           answer
           to
           what
           is
           objected
           here
           in
           the
           Reply
           :
           Wee
           grant
           therefore
           the
           first
           argument
           and
           the
           conclusion
           thereof
           thus
           farre
           ,
           that
           the
           officiall
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           was
           not
           given
           to
           the
           whole
           multitude
           ,
           but
           onely
           there
           is
           given
           to
           them
           a
           power
           to
           choose
           Officers
           ,
           which
           Officers
           should
           execute
           the
           same
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           2
           
             If
             Christ
             gave
             this
             power
             to
             the
             community
             ,
             was
             it
             from
             the
             beginning
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             or
             tooke
             it
             effect
             after
             the
             Church
             was
             planted
             ?
             Not
             the
             first
             ,
             for
             then
             the
             Apostles
             themselves
             should
             derive
             their
             power
             from
             the
             community
             ,
             which
             they
             did
             not
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           reason
           is
           answered
           before
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           concernes
           our
           tenent
           )
           in
           the
           second
           consideration
           ,
           where
           it
           is
           alledged
           ,
           to
           which
           wee
           referre
           the
           Reader
           ;
           neither
           doe
           wee
           say
           the
           officiall
           power
           is
           so
           given
           to
           the
           community
           ,
           but
           such
           things
           as
           are
           here
           added
           ,
           wee
           shall
           consider
           so
           farre
           as
           concernes
           us
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Apostles
             and
             other
             Governours
             were
             given
             of
             Christ
             to
             the
             Church
          
           
           
             as
             for
             their
             end
             ,
             and
             all
             their
             authority
             was
             given
             unto
             them
             for
             the
             Church
             ,
             as
             for
             the
             whole
             :
             but
             the
             authority
             it selfe
             was
             immediatly
             derived
             from
             Christ
             ,
             and
             is
             not
             in
             the
             Church
             as
             the
             immediate
             subject
             ,
             nor
             derived
             from
             the
             Church
             ,
             but
             from
             Christ
             the
             King
             of
             the
             Church
             .
             The
             authority
             of
             Governour
             is
             given
             of
             Christ
             for
             a
             gift
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             but
             not
             a
             gift
             absolute
             .
             That
             it
             may
             reside
             in
             the
             power
             of
             the
             whole
             Church
             ,
             but
             for
             a
             conditionall
             gift
             communicated
             to
             the
             Governours
             for
             the
             good
             of
             the
             whole
             .
          
           Parker
           ,
           pol.
           lib.
           3.
           cap.
           8.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           Concerning
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           extraordinary
           Officers
           wee
           now
           dispute
           not
           ,
           it
           was
           answered
           before
           ;
           and
           for
           the
           authority
           of
           other
           Officers
           ,
           wee
           doe
           not
           affirme
           that
           it
           is
           derived
           from
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           from
           Christ
           for
           the
           good
           of
           the
           Church
           ;
           but
           if
           the
           question
           bee
           of
           the
           application
           of
           an
           Office
           ,
           and
           the
           power
           of
           it
           to
           such
           and
           such
           persons
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           wee
           would
           demand
           whether
           Christ
           doth
           this
           to
           such
           a
           Pastour
           and
           Teacher
           immediatly
           or
           mediatly
           :
           if
           immediatly
           ,
           then
           their
           call
           is
           not
           (
           in
           this
           )
           different
           from
           Apostles
           ,
           which
           Paul
           expresly
           distinguisheth
           
             Gal.
             1.
             1.
             
             Paul
          
           was
           an
           Apostle
           ,
           not
           of
           man
           ,
           nor
           by
           man
           ,
           but
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           by
           Jesus
           Christ
           ;
           false
           Teachers
           are
           of
           man
           ,
           and
           by
           man.
           True
           Pastors
           as
           
             Thomas
             ,
             Iohn
             ,
             &c.
          
           are
           of
           God
           by
           man
           ,
           and
           if
           Christ
           communicate
           this
           Office
           ,
           and
           the
           authority
           annexed
           unto
           it
           mediatly
           by
           man
           ,
           not
           immediatly
           ,
           the
           question
           is
           ,
           Who
           is
           the
           subject
           of
           this
           power
           to
           call
           ,
           and
           so
           to
           apply
           this
           office
           in
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           to
           this
           or
           that
           person
           ,
           
             John
             ,
             Thomas
             ,
             &c.
          
           
           Wee
           hold
           this
           fraternall
           ministeriall
           power
           (
           under
           Christ
           )
           is
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           so
           farre
           wee
           shall
           defend
           this
           position
           ,
           and
           where
           ▪
           ever
           it
           be
           else
           placed
           it
           will
           be
           subject
           to
           all
           the
           absurdities
           that
           are
           imputed
           to
           us
           .
           To
           the
           sentence
           of
           Parker
           we
           answer
           ,
           that
           the
           misinterpreting
           one
           word
           of
           his
           sentence
           doth
           pervert
           his
           whole
           meaning
           ,
           his
           words
           are
           
             Pro
             dono
             conditionali
             ut
             Rectoribus
             communicetur
             ,
             i.
             e.
          
           that
           the
           Church
           might
           not
           communicate
           that
           power
           to
           Officers
           ,
           nor
           keepe
           it
           in
           her
           owne
           hand
           .
           Or
           that
           it
           might
           bee
           communicated
           from
           Christ
           by
           the
           Church
           .
           And
           this
           will
           appeare
           his
           meaning
           ,
           and
           it
           agrees
           with
           that
           position
           hee
           holds
           so
           strongly
           ,
           that
           the
           Church
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           the
           Keys
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             After
             the
             Churches
             were
             established
             ,
             it
             tooke
             not
             effect
             ,
             for
             it
             is
             no
             where
             found
             in
             Scripture
             that
             Christ
             first
             committed
             this
             power
             to
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             and
             after
             to
             the
             community
             ;
             the
             Ministers
             and
             guides
             were
             immediately
             of
             Jesus
             Christ
             from
             whom
             immediately
             they
             derive
             their
             power
             and
             authority
             ,
             by
             whom
             they
             are
             set
             over
             their
             charge
             ,
             in
             whose
             name
             they
          
           
           
             execute
             their
             Office
             ,
             &c.
             
             Yea
             Pastorship
             is
             the
             gift
             of
             Christ
             as
             well
             as
             Apostleship
             ;
             and
             every
             Pastor
             is
             not
             immediately
             called
             ,
             but
             the
             office
             and
             order
             of
             Pastors
             ,
             the
             calling
             ,
             authority
             and
             jurisdiction
             is
             immediately
             from
             Christ
             ,
             not
             from
             the
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           (
           in
           a
           right
           sense
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           )
           tooke
           effect
           from
           the
           beginning
           in
           Christs
           institution
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           frequent
           practice
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           as
           is
           shewed
           before
           ,
           and
           therefore
           this
           is
           needlesse
           to
           bee
           proved
           ,
           that
           it
           tooke
           effect
           after
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           Ministers
           and
           guides
           were
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           ,
           (
           if
           you
           meane
           ordinary
           officers
           )
           and
           that
           every
           Pastour
           is
           not
           immediately
           called
           ,
           seemes
           to
           be
           a
           contradiction
           :
           the
           places
           ,
           
             Act.
             28.
             8.
             
             Ephes
          
           .
           4.
           8.
           
           &c.
           doe
           not
           prove
           that
           all
           Officers
           are
           immedately
           from
           Christ
           ,
           though
           they
           bee
           set
           in
           the
           Church
           by
           Christ
           and
           over
           the
           Church
           by
           the
           Holy
           Ghost
           ,
           &c.
           
           This
           the
           Lord
           can
           doe
           ,
           and
           doth
           doe
           by
           the
           meanes
           of
           his
           Church
           walking
           according
           to
           his
           rule
           and
           institution
           ,
           and
           therefore
           you
           must
           come
           at
           last
           home
           to
           our
           tenent
           ,
           (
           as
           here
           you
           doe
           )
           that
           Pastorship
           ,
           the
           office
           ,
           power
           ,
           jurisdiction
           ,
           &c.
           annexed
           to
           it
           ,
           is
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           ,
           viz.
           by
           his
           institution
           in
           the
           Gospel
           :
           but
           Pastors
           every
           one
           that
           receive
           this
           office
           ,
           hath
           it
           from
           Christ
           ,
           but
           by
           his
           Church
           calling
           them
           to
           the
           same
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           name
           of
           Christ
           applying
           it
           to
           them
           :
           and
           thus
           far
           we
           agree
           with
           you
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Steward
             is
             appointed
             of
             the
             Master
             of
             the
             family
             alone
             ,
             and
             hath
             all
             his
             authority
             from
             him
             .
             Every
             Embassador
             in
             the
             cause
             of
             his
             Embassage
             doth
             immediately
             depend
             upon
             him
             from
             whom
             he
             is
             sent
             :
             but
             if
             the
             function
             ,
             order
             and
             authority
             of
             Pastors
             and
             Teachers
             bee
             immediately
             from
             Christ
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             not
             received
             from
             the
             Church
             as
             the
             immediate
             receptacle
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Answ
           .
           First
           ,
           though
           Pastors
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           exercise
           of
           their
           function
           dispense
           the
           Word
           and
           other
           Mysteries
           of
           Christ
           as
           from
           him
           immediately
           ,
           and
           so
           are
           fitly
           compared
           to
           Embassadors
           and
           Stewards
           ,
           yet
           in
           the
           call
           of
           the
           one
           and
           other
           to
           that
           work
           there
           is
           a
           plaine
           dissimilitude
           ,
           the
           one
           being
           called
           Mediately
           ,
           the
           other
           Immediately
           by
           their
           Masters
           ,
           and
           therefore
           in
           this
           case
           it
           proves
           nothing
           .
        
         
           What
           doth
           this
           argument
           conclude
           ?
           if
           onely
           that
           the
           function
           and
           order
           is
           not
           from
           the
           Church
           as
           the
           first
           subject
           ,
           we
           readily
           grant
           it
           ;
           if
           the
           application
           of
           the
           office
           to
           such
           a
           person
           ,
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           may
           bee
           done
           by
           an
           outward
           call
           )
           it
           followes
           not
           at
           all
           ,
           for
           the
           function
           and
           office
           may
           bee
           from
           Christ
           ,
           and
           the
           application
           thereof
           by
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Thus
             Protestant
             Divines
             dispute
             against
             Papists
             ,
             if
             Bishops
             receive
             their
             power
             and
             authority
             of
             exercising
             immediately
             from
             Christ
             by
             Mandate
             ,
             Mission
             and
             commission
             from
             him
             ,
             then
             not
             from
             the
             Pope
             ,
             and
             so
             for
             Presbyters
             in
             regard
             of
             the
             Bishop
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           reason
           and
           ground
           of
           that
           dispute
           is
           because
           the
           Pope
           claimes
           a
           plenitude
           of
           power
           from
           Peter
           ,
           whence
           all
           must
           see
           derived
           to
           all
           Bishops
           ,
           &c.
           bee
           they
           never
           so
           orderly
           chosen
           and
           ordained
           in
           their
           owne
           esteeme
           ,
           and
           so
           indeed
           usurps
           the
           Prerogative
           of
           Christ
           the
           head
           of
           the
           Church
           .
           The
           like
           usurpation
           ●●
           its
           degree
           was
           in
           the
           Bishops
           over
           Presbyters
           :
           But
           here
           the
           case
           is
           farre
           different
           ,
           the
           Church
           claming
           no
           such
           power
           ,
           but
           onely
           Ministeriall
           in
           the
           outward
           call
           of
           officers
           according
           to
           his
           direction
           ,
           and
           so
           the
           application
           of
           that
           office
           unto
           the
           persons
           ,
           which
           hath
           sufficient
           ground
           of
           Scripture
           from
           Christ
           ,
           and
           therefore
           we
           grant
           the
           conclusion
           .
           viz.
           That
           they
           derive
           not
           their
           power
           from
           the
           people
           ,
           but
           from
           Christ
           :
           by
           meanes
           of
           the
           Church
           Ministerially
           and
           instrumentally
           applying
           that
           office
           to
           them
           ,
           whereunto
           Christ
           hath
           annexed
           that
           power
           .
           Lastly
           the
           like
           argument
           may
           be
           objected
           against
           any
           other
           subject
           of
           this
           power
           you
           can
           or
           will
           suppose
           ,
           even
           the
           Presbytery
           it selfe
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             usually
             objected
             that
             the
             Church
             cannot
             convey
             what
             she
             never
             had
             :
             but
             the
             people
             may
             elect
             their
             Pastor
             .
          
        
         
           
             Whereunto
             the
             answer
             is
             direct
             and
             plaine
             ,
             nothing
             can
             give
             that
             it
             had
             not
             formally
             or
             vertually
             ,
             unlesse
             it
             give
             it
             as
             an
             instrument
             ministring
             to
             one
             that
             hath
             it
             ,
             but
             so
             it
             may
             give
             what
             it
             never
             had
             ,
             nor
             is
             capable
             of
             .
             A
             Steward
             may
             give
             all
             the
             offices
             in
             his
             Masters
             house
             as
             ministerially
             executing
             his
             Masters
             pleasure
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           answer
           doth
           not
           satisfie
           ,
           for
           wee
           cannot
           put
           off
           our
           old
           principles
           of
           Reason
           ,
           that
           every
           instrument
           ministring
           to
           the
           principall
           cause
           doth
           
             Conferre
             vim
             ad
             effectum
          
           :
           and
           so
           farre
           ,
           or
           in
           what
           sense
           it
           gives
           any
           thing
           to
           the
           effect
           in
           that
           sense
           ,
           and
           so
           farre
           it
           must
           needs
           have
           vertually
           or
           formally
           the
           same
           in
           itselfe
           .
           If
           a
           Conduit
           convey
           water
           ministerially
           from
           the
           fountaine
           to
           the
           house
           ,
           it
           hath
           water
           in
           such
           a
           sense
           ,
           as
           it
           doth
           concurre
           to
           the
           effect
           :
           and
           so
           the
           Church
           cannot
           give
           the
           Keys
           to
           the
           Officers
           as
           an
           instrument
           of
           Christ
           ,
           but
           it
           must
           be
           granted
           shee
           received
           them
           from
           Christ
           vertually
           to
           give
           them
           to
           the
           Officer
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           for
           the
           instance
           ;
           if
           it
           bee
           meant
           of
           a
           Steward
           giving
           the
           offices
           to
           such
           persons
           as
           his
           Master
           hath
           named
           thereunto
           ,
           and
           he
           instals
           them
           into
           the
           same
           ,
           the
           case
           is
           not
           alike
           yet
           ,
           here
           hee
           must
           have
           some
           
           power
           and
           authority
           so
           to
           doe
           so
           that
           he
           hath
           these
           offices
           vertually
           in
           his
           hand
           ,
           but
           if
           it
           be
           his
           Masters
           will
           ,
           he
           shall
           choose
           what
           persons
           hee
           sees
           fit
           according
           to
           rules
           given
           him
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           the
           case
           here
           )
           then
           hee
           hath
           this
           power
           vertually
           in
           his
           hand
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Thirdly
             ,
             if
             Ecclesiasticall
             and
             spirituall
             power
             be
             in
             the
             multitude
             and
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             the
             Church
             doth
             not
             onely
             call
             ,
             but
             make
             Officers
             out
             of
             power
             and
             vertue
             received
             into
             her selfe
             ,
             and
             then
             should
             the
             Church
             have
             a
             true
             Lord
             like
             power
             in
             regard
             of
             her
             Ministers
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           there
           be
           any
           such
           that
           hold
           the
           Church
           hath
           so
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           in
           her selfe
           ,
           as
           that
           she
           may
           derive
           from
           her selfe
           authority
           to
           the
           Officers
           ,
           let
           such
           looke
           unto
           the
           conclusion
           ;
           as
           for
           Mr.
           Robinson
           ,
           though
           wee
           doe
           not
           approve
           the
           sentences
           you
           cite
           out
           of
           him
           ,
           yet
           we
           doubt
           whether
           you
           doe
           not
           goe
           beyond
           his
           sense
           &
           meaning
           :
           but
           according
           to
           our
           sense
           of
           this
           position
           before
           layd
           downe
           ,
           neither
           this
           absurdity
           of
           Lordship
           over
           the
           Officers
           ,
           nor
           any
           others
           that
           are
           instanced
           in
           ,
           under
           this
           reason
           doe
           at
           all
           follow
           ;
           and
           they
           may
           bee
           as
           strongly
           urged
           against
           the
           Presbyteries
           ,
           Classes
           ,
           Synods
           ,
           Catholick
           Church
           ,
           or
           any
           subject
           of
           the
           Keyes
           that
           can
           be
           named
           :
           And
           the
           objection
           ,
           viz.
           
             That
             God
             will
             have
             the
             Church
             choose
             Officers
             to
             execute
             the
             power
             committed
             to
             her
             ,
          
           is
           so
           answered
           in
           the
           same
           page
           ,
           as
           will
           serve
           us
           as
           well
           as
           you
           ,
           viz.
           
             God
             will
             have
             her
             elect
             Officers
             of
             his
             designment
             (
             that
             is
             ,
             such
             as
             the
             rule
             directs
             her
             to
             choose
             )
             to
             doe
             his
             worke
             according
             to
             that
             Power
             which
             hee
             hath
             given
             them
             ,
             and
             by
             his
             direction
             ,
             and
             then
             they
             are
             Gods
             servants
             and
             not
             the
             Churches
             ,
             and
             receive
             that
             charge
             and
             function
             immediatly
             from
             God
             ,
             and
             not
             from
             the
             people
             ;
             wee
             meane
             no
             otherwise
             then
             by
             that
             outward
             call
             instrumentally
             applying
             that
             Office
             unto
             them
          
           ;
           and
           in
           this
           sense
           wee
           close
           with
           you
           herein
           :
           and
           indeed
           this
           power
           of
           electing
           Officers
           doth
           not
           ever
           include
           authority
           over
           them
           whom
           they
           chuse
           ,
           but
           rather
           willing
           subjection
           unto
           them
           ,
           and
           setting
           them
           up
           to
           rule
           ;
           as
           when
           a
           woman
           chooseth
           a
           husband
           ,
           she
           makes
           him
           her
           husband
           in
           a
           sort
           ,
           but
           withall
           her
           head
           and
           ruler
           ;
           so
           when
           a
           people
           choose
           a
           Major
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Fourthly
             ,
             if
             the
             Power
             of
             the
             Keyes
             be
             given
             first
             and
             immediatly
             to
             the
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             what
             reason
             can
             bee
             alleadged
             why
             in
             defect
             of
             Officers
             the
             Church
             might
             not
             rule
             ,
             feed
             ,
             bind
             ,
             loose
             ,
             preach
             ,
             and
             administer
             Sacraments
             ;
             or
             if
             any
             faile
             in
             Office
             ,
             why
             shee
             might
             not
             supply
             that
             want
             by
             her
             power
             ,
             for
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Keys
             doth
             containe
             both
             authority
             and
             exercise
             ,
             power
             being
             given
             that
             it
             may
             bee
             exercised
             ,
             as
             it
             is
             vouchsafed
             :
             but
             the
             Church
             cannot
             exercise
             these
             acts
             of
             rule
             .
          
           Ergo.
           
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           reason
           is
           ,
           because
           the
           Church
           hath
           not
           received
           some
           of
           the
           Keyes
           formally
           but
           onely
           vertually
           ,
           and
           (
           as
           was
           said
           out
           of
           Parker
           )
           not
           as
           a
           gift
           absolute
           but
           conditionall
           ,
           that
           it
           might
           bee
           communicated
           to
           the
           Officers
           .
           Such
           power
           as
           the
           body
           of
           the
           Church
           hath
           received
           formally
           shee
           may
           and
           doth
           exercise
           ,
           as
           a
           power
           of
           choosing
           Officers
           ,
           a
           power
           of
           judging
           in
           censures
           ,
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           12.
           and
           the
           like
           ,
           the
           power
           of
           preaching
           properly
           so
           called
           &
           dispensing
           Sacraments
           ,
           &c.
           being
           acts
           of
           authority
           ,
           the
           Church
           hath
           them
           onely
           vertually
           ,
           and
           therefore
           must
           choose
           Officers
           ,
           to
           whom
           Christ
           her
           Lord
           hath
           given
           authority
           in
           the
           Church
           .
           A
           Corporation
           that
           by
           Patent
           from
           the
           King
           hath
           many
           Priviledges
           ,
           the
           power
           is
           given
           to
           the
           Body
           incorporated
           ,
           and
           so
           it
           is
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           it
           ,
           yet
           many
           acts
           cannot
           be
           put
           forth
           ,
           but
           by
           Officers
           duely
           chosen
           :
           and
           so
           here
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             For
             these
             Reasons
             (
             not
             to
             insist
             on
             any
             more
             )
             wee
             judge
             the
             community
             of
             the
             faithfull
             ,
             not
             to
             bee
             the
             immediate
             receptacle
             of
             ecclesiasticall
             authority
             ,
             and
             so
             the
             Power
             of
             excommunication
             ,
             not
             to
             belong
             unto
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           By
           this
           conclusion
           it
           appeares
           that
           how
           ever
           the
           author
           began
           professedly
           against
           us
           as
           Separatists
           in
           this
           point
           ,
           yet
           he
           followes
           the
           cause
           against
           Mr.
           Parker
           ,
           with
           whom
           hee
           seemes
           to
           be
           friends
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           the
           power
           of
           excommunication
           may
           belong
           to
           the
           Church
           or
           community
           in
           respect
           of
           a
           fraternall
           power
           of
           judging
           ,
           though
           officiall
           authority
           bee
           not
           formally
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           but
           to
           the
           Officers
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             consent
             of
             Churches
             bee
             asked
             in
             this
             point
             ,
             to
             omit
             others
             ,
             the
             Churches
             of
             Scotland
             speake
             fully
             and
             expresly
             for
             us
             in
             the
             second
             booke
             of
             Discip
             .
             Cap.
             1.
             
             The
             Church
             as
             it
             is
             taken
             for
             them
             that
             exercise
             spirituall
             functions
             in
             the
             Congregation
             of
             them
             that
             professe
             the
             truth
             ,
             hath
             a
             certaine
             power
             granted
             of
             God
             according
             to
             which
             it
             useth
             a
             proper
             jurisdiction
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           Beza
           de
           Presb.
           pag.
           60.
           
           Helv.
           Confess
           .
           Cap.
           18.
           
           Belgick
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           consent
           of
           the
           learned
           ,
           godly
           ,
           and
           zealous
           reformers
           were
           asked
           ,
           a
           cloud
           of
           witnesses
           might
           bee
           produced
           that
           hold
           the
           Church
           the
           first
           subject
           of
           the
           Keyes
           ,
           as
           
             Fulke
             ,
             Whitaker
             ,
             Parker
             ,
             Peter
             Martyr
             ,
             Musculus
          
           and
           others
           ,
           besides
           many
           of
           the
           ancient
           Divines
           and
           Councells
           ,
           Gerson
           and
           the
           Parisian
           Divines
           well
           known
           to
           the
           learned
           concerning
           quotation
           of
           the
           Scottish
           discipline
           ,
           the
           first
           words
           lay
           so
           weake
           a
           foundation
           as
           leave
           the
           building
           ready
           to
           fall
           ,
           in
           these
           words
           .
           
             The
             Church
             as
             it
             is
             taken
             for
             them
             that
             exercise
          
           
           spirituall
           functions
           hath
           a
           certaine
           power
           ,
           &c.
           but
           where
           is
           the
           Church
           so
           taken
           ?
           not
           in
           all
           the
           New
           Testament
           that
           can
           be
           proved
           with
           any
           solid
           Reason
           ,
           notwithstanding
           all
           wrastling
           of
           men
           to
           find
           it
           out
           ;
           but
           generally
           for
           the
           company
           of
           the
           faithfull
           ,
           either
           the
           universall
           or
           particular
           Church
           ;
           and
           this
           sometime
           considered
           with
           her
           Officers
           :
           and
           divers
           times
           as
           distinguished
           from
           them
           ,
           as
           Acts
           14.
           23.
           and
           20.
           13.
           28.
           
           
             Jam.
             5.
             14.
             
             Revel
          
           .
           2.
           1.
           8.
           12.
           
           &c.
           but
           never
           contra
           ,
           for
           the
           Officers
           distinguished
           from
           the
           Church
           or
           body
           of
           the
           Congregation
           ;
           and
           therefore
           if
           the
           Keyes
           be
           given
           to
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           the
           plea
           of
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keyes
           to
           be
           given
           immediatly
           to
           the
           Officers
           be
           in
           and
           under
           the
           name
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           it
           will
           fall
           to
           the
           Church
           of
           the
           faithfull
           ,
           if
           the
           Scripture
           may
           judge
           :
           indeed
           among
           the
           Papists
           ,
           and
           so
           the
           Prelates
           ,
           the
           Clergy
           have
           long
           got
           and
           held
           possession
           of
           the
           name
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           the
           testament
           of
           Christ
           will
           not
           beare
           this
           foundation
           ,
           but
           wee
           will
           not
           trouble
           the
           Reader
           farther
           about
           humane
           testimonies
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           XV.
           
        
         
           
             Position
             6.
             
          
           
             THat
             none
             are
             to
             bee
             admitted
             Members
             but
             they
             must
             promise
             not
             to
             depart
             or
             remove
             unlesse
             the
             Congregation
             will
             give
             leave
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             one
             thing
             abruptly
             to
             breake
             away
             when
             and
             whither
             they
             please
             ,
             and
             forsake
             fellowship
             another
             thing
             ,
             not
             to
             depart
             or
             remove
             habitation
             unlesse
             the
             Congregation
             will
             give
             leave
             ;
             also
             it
             is
             one
             thing
             mutually
             to
             compound
             and
             agree
             ,
             not
             to
             depart
             from
             each
             other
             without
             consent
             and
             approbation
             ,
             and
             other
             to
             require
             a
             promise
             of
             all
             that
             be
             admitted
             into
             societie
             that
             they
             shall
             not
             depart
             without
             the
             Churches
             allowance
             ,
             if
             such
             a
             promise
             be
             required
             of
             all
             members
             to
             bee
             admitted
             ,
             wee
             cannot
             discerne
             upon
             what
             grounds
             your
             practise
             is
             warranted
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           are
           still
           inforced
           to
           cleare
           our
           answer
           from
           mistakes
           ,
           for
           it
           seemes
           the
           answer
           left
           it
           doubtfull
           ,
           whether
           wee
           doe
           not
           hold
           the
           position
           affirmatively
           ,
           and
           in
           practise
           require
           such
           a
           promise
           as
           a
           part
           of
           our
           Church
           Covenant
           of
           all
           that
           are
           admitted
           ,
           and
           therefore
           to
           cleare
           the
           case
           more
           fully
           wee
           shall
           first
           minde
           the
           Reader
           with
           the
           true
           meaning
           of
           the
           answer
           ,
           and
           then
           adde
           what
           is
           needfull
           to
           take
           away
           the
           scruples
           ;
           and
           first
           the
           answer
           saith
           ,
           
             that
             wee
             judge
             it
             expedient
             and
             most
             according
             to
             rule
             ,
             that
             brethren
          
           
           
             should
             not
             forsake
             fellowship
             ,
             &c.
             but
             in
             removalls
             approve
             themselves
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           Now
           this
           is
           farre
           short
           of
           what
           the
           position
           affirmes
           ;
           for
           first
           ,
           that
           none
           are
           to
           bee
           admitted
           without
           such
           a
           promise
           ,
           includes
           a
           necessity
           ;
           the
           answer
           speakes
           onely
           of
           expediency
           and
           agreeablenesse
           to
           rule
           ,
           not
           to
           breake
           off
           abruptly
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           the
           Position
           affirmes
           the
           necessitie
           of
           a
           promise
           ;
           the
           answer
           speakes
           onely
           of
           the
           case
           in
           practise
           ,
           as
           in
           many
           cases
           besides
           ,
           for
           the
           watch
           of
           the
           Church
           reacheth
           to
           such
           particular
           acts
           of
           which
           wee
           make
           no
           promise
           expresse
           in
           the
           entrance
           .
           Thirdly
           ,
           the
           Position
           speakes
           of
           the
           Churches
           leave
           ,
           the
           answer
           acknowledgeth
           onely
           that
           brethren
           removing
           should
           approve
           themselves
           to
           doe
           that
           which
           is
           lawfull
           ,
           and
           take
           counsell
           in
           such
           weighty
           affaires
           .
           By
           all
           which
           it
           appeares
           that
           wee
           doe
           not
           owne
           this
           position
           ,
           in
           judgement
           nor
           practise
           ,
           and
           therefore
           in
           effect
           our
           answer
           doth
           deny
           the
           same
           ,
           and
           is
           negative
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           the
           words
           of
           the
           answer
           bee
           not
           full
           enough
           :
           (
           because
           wee
           see
           our
           brethren
           here
           runne
           upon
           it
           as
           a
           question
           
             if
             such
             a
             promise
             be
             required
             ,
          
           and
           Mr.
           Rutherford
           and
           others
           take
           it
           up
           as
           a
           confessed
           practise
           )
           wee
           doe
           therefore
           clearely
           and
           plainely
           deny
           the
           position
           and
           affirme
           that
           wee
           doe
           not
           thinke
           that
           none
           are
           to
           bee
           admitted
           without
           such
           a
           promise
           ;
           neither
           is
           there
           any
           such
           practise
           in
           our
           admissions
           of
           members
           to
           require
           such
           a
           promise
           ;
           wee
           onely
           count
           such
           removalls
           (
           especially
           of
           families
           )
           an
           action
           amongst
           many
           others
           whereunto
           the
           watch
           of
           the
           Church
           doth
           extend
           ,
           to
           prevent
           sinne
           where
           there
           is
           any
           just
           ground
           of
           suspition
           thereof
           ,
           and
           to
           further
           the
           best
           good
           of
           such
           as
           are
           under
           our
           charge
           by
           counsell
           ,
           prayers
           ,
           &c.
           
           If
           any
           Minister
           and
           people
           of
           old
           acquaintance
           and
           deare
           affection
           ,
           or
           any
           other
           Christians
           cleaving
           together
           in
           love
           have
           privatly
           resolved
           or
           agreed
           together
           ,
           not
           to
           part
           from
           each
           others
           in
           any
           Church
           ,
           it
           is
           the
           most
           that
           wee
           have
           taken
           knowledge
           of
           ,
           and
           wee
           thinke
           that
           hath
           beene
           very
           rare
           ,
           but
           for
           any
           such
           publick
           promise
           ,
           Covenant
           ,
           or
           Church
           oath
           ,
           (
           as
           some
           straining
           things
           to
           the
           height
           have
           called
           it
           )
           it
           is
           not
           ,
           nor
           hath
           been
           required
           or
           practised
           amongst
           us
           :
           this
           being
           so
           ,
           there
           needs
           no
           grounds
           of
           that
           which
           wee
           practise
           not
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             First
             ,
             you
             exclude
             all
             such
             as
             bee
             not
             set
             members
             from
             the
             seales
             ,
             and
             yet
             hinder
             them
             from
             entrance
             into
             the
             Church
             society
             ,
             because
             they
             cannot
             promise
             continuance
             in
             the
             place
             they
             are
             resident
             in
             for
             the
             present
             ;
             here
             we
             ,
             desire
             to
             bee
             satisfied
             by
             the
             word
             of
             God
             by
             what
             you
             require
             it
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           We
           deny
           not
           but
           divers
           may
           and
           doe
           forbeare
           to
           joyne
           because
           of
           their
           unsettlednesse
           in
           the
           place
           of
           their
           present
           abode
           .
        
         
         
           Secondly
           ,
           It
           may
           bee
           in
           some
           cases
           ,
           some
           may
           be
           advised
           by
           the
           counsell
           of
           their
           private
           friends
           in
           a
           Church
           to
           forbeare
           till
           they
           be
           some
           way
           setled
           .
           But
           that
           any
           are
           debarred
           from
           Communion
           when
           they
           desire
           it
           ,
           because
           they
           cannot
           promise
           continuance
           ,
           (
           unlesse
           other
           just
           causes
           hinder
           )
           it
           neither
           suites
           with
           our
           judgement
           nor
           practise
           ;
           and
           if
           any
           should
           practise
           other
           wayes
           ,
           wee
           doe
           not
           allow
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           and
           therefore
           it
           's
           needlesse
           to
           give
           you
           reasons
           of
           what
           we
           practise
           not
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             It
             pertaines
             not
             to
             the
             whole
             Congregation
             to
             take
             notice
             or
             bee
             acquainted
             with
             or
             judge
             of
             every
             particular
             members
             removall
             :
             may
             not
             a
             servant
             remove
             from
             his
             Master
             to
             another
             Congregation
             ,
             or
             a
             father
             bestow
             his
             childe
             in
             marriage
             to
             one
             of
             another
             Congregation
             ,
             but
             the
             whole
             Church
             must
             be
             called
             to
             counsell
             in
             the
             matters
             ,
             &c.
             when
             Churches
             grow
             populous
             they
             must
             bee
             negligent
             or
             weary
             of
             such
             a
             ta●ke
             ,
             and
             for
             the
             present
             to
             challenge
             so
             much
             authority
             over
             one
             another
             is
             usurpation
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           our
           answer
           were
           but
           attended
           ,
           such
           apprehensions
           of
           our
           practise
           of
           calling
           the
           whole
           Church
           to
           counsell
           in
           every
           such
           case
           ,
           and
           all
           that
           followes
           might
           be
           spared
           .
           For
           thus
           we
           say
           ,
           
             Wee
             judge
             it
             expedient
             ,
             &c.
             
             That
             none
             forsake
             fellowship
             and
             abruptly
             breake
             off
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           This
           doth
           not
           imply
           a
           necessity
           of
           calling
           the
           whole
           Church
           to
           counsell
           in
           every
           plaine
           and
           easie
           case
           ;
           many
           times
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           most
           part
           such
           removals
           are
           so
           plaine
           and
           free
           from
           suspition
           of
           abrupt
           breaking
           off
           or
           forsaking
           fellowship
           ,
           that
           there
           is
           no
           need
           of
           counsell
           ,
           as
           in
           case
           of
           servants
           marriages
           ,
           &c.
           and
           therefore
           no
           trouble
           to
           the
           Church
           :
           and
           in
           some
           removall
           of
           families
           also
           ,
           the
           case
           is
           cleare
           ,
           and
           openly
           carried
           in
           the
           knowledge
           of
           many
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           none
           scruple
           it
           ,
           and
           therefore
           at
           the
           first
           demand
           of
           dismission
           or
           letters
           of
           recommendations
           ,
           the
           same
           are
           granted
           :
           but
           in
           removall
           of
           some
           members
           ,
           and
           in
           the
           manner
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           there
           are
           such
           difficulties
           and
           dangers
           as
           neede
           the
           prayers
           and
           counsell
           of
           the
           Officers
           and
           whole
           Church
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           confessed
           after
           )
           nor
           doe
           wee
           say
           ,
           it
           pertaines
           to
           the
           whole
           Church
           to
           bee
           called
           to
           counsell
           and
           judge
           of
           every
           particular
           members
           removall
           ,
           for
           they
           may
           approve
           themselves
           to
           the
           consciences
           of
           all
           mediately
           by
           advising
           with
           some
           who
           may
           satisfie
           the
           rest
           ,
           if
           need
           be
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             Let
             it
             be
             shewed
             ,
             that
             ever
             by
             divine
             right
             ,
             this
             power
             was
             committed
             to
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             we
             will
             confesse
             it
             expedient
             ,
             but
             till
             then
             ,
             wee
             thinke
             the
             Church
             over
             rigid
             ,
             and
             the
             members
             busiebodies
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           rule
           of
           love
           whereby
           wee
           are
           bound
           to
           exhort
           ,
           admonish
           ,
           seeke
           the
           edification
           and
           good
           one
           of
           another
           ▪
           and
           that
           not
           onely
           in
           generall
           (
           as
           of
           all
           Christians
           )
           but
           as
           members
           of
           so
           neere
           relation
           in
           one
           Church
           body
           ,
           who
           are
           bound
           to
           serve
           the
           Lord
           with
           one
           shoulder
           ,
           Zeph.
           3.
           9.
           and
           to
           uphold
           the
           worship
           of
           Christ
           therein
           ,
           as
           this
           doth
           reach
           to
           all
           the
           actions
           and
           wayes
           of
           one
           another
           ,
           so
           in
           a
           speciall
           manner
           to
           such
           an
           action
           as
           this
           i●
           :
           and
           we
           thinke
           this
           ground
           is
           sufficient
           to
           satisfie
           our
           practice
           as
           wee
           have
           declared
           ,
           which
           may
           wipe
           off
           the
           aspersion
           of
           being
           rigid
           or
           busie-bodies
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             multitude
             of
             counsellers
             is
             peace
             ,
             but
             over-many
             counsellors
             oft
             causeth
             distractions
             ,
             and
             different
             apprehensions
             breed
             delayes
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           it
           may
           doe
           so
           ,
           neither
           doe
           wee
           bring
           all
           cases
           to
           publike
           like
           counsell
           ,
           but
           the
           case
           may
           bee
           such
           as
           needs
           the
           publike
           counsell
           of
           all
           ,
           and
           as
           wee
           have
           a
           gracious
           promise
           of
           the
           presence
           of
           Christ
           in
           his
           Churches
           who
           is
           the
           counsellour
           :
           so
           we
           confesse
           to
           his
           praise
           ,
           that
           we
           finde
           the
           judgment
           of
           a
           Church
           of
           Saints
           in
           matters
           orderly
           carryed
           ,
           and
           gathered
           up
           from
           the
           various
           gifts
           of
           wisedome
           ,
           grace
           ,
           and
           experience
           of
           many
           Christians
           (
           when
           need
           is
           )
           to
           be
           a
           blessed
           priviledge
           of
           Gods
           people
           to
           enjoy
           ,
           and
           sanctified
           oft
           to
           the
           great
           good
           of
           his
           Saints
           ,
           and
           being
           neglected
           and
           slighted
           hath
           been
           oft
           followed
           with
           sad
           events
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             nature
             of
             your
             Church-Covenant
             inferreth
             not
             a
             necessity
             of
             bringing
             every
             such
             businesse
             to
             the
             Church
             ;
             for
             you
             binde
             your selves
             mutually
             to
             watch
             one
             over
             another
             ,
             &c.
             but
             this
             essentially
             tyeth
             not
             any
             man
             to
             a
             perpetuall
             residence
             in
             one
             place
             ,
             for
             then
             even
             occasionall
             absence
             should
             be
             a
             breach
             of
             Covenant
             ,
             without
             consent
             of
             the
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           grant
           ,
           our
           Church-Covenant
           neither
           requires
           every
           businesse
           to
           come
           to
           publike
           counsell
           ,
           nor
           perpetuall
           residence
           in
           one
           place
           :
           neither
           is
           it
           so
           held
           by
           us
           in
           judgement
           or
           practise
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             You
             say
             you
             bind
             your selves
             to
             no
             new
             duties
             ,
             but
             in
             the
             word
             of
             truth
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             required
             neither
             directly
             nor
             by
             consequence
             ,
             that
             no
             member
             of
             a
             Church
             should
             remove
             or
             occasionally
             bee
             absent
             from
             his
             habitation
             before
             hee
             have
             acquainted
             the
             Church
             whither
             he
             goeth
             ,
             and
             on
             what
             occasions
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           cannot
           but
           grieve
           us
           to
           see
           how
           the
           Replyer
           still
           not
           content
           to
           take
           all
           things
           in
           the
           harshest
           sense
           ,
           but
           will
           also
           winde
           in
           other
           matters
           into
           his
           discourse
           ,
           which
           may
           make
           our
           practise
           seeme
           farre
           more
           rigid
           then
           it
           is
           .
           First
           ,
           hee
           urges
           us
           as
           if
           wee
           brought
           all
           cases
           of
           remove
           and
           the
           occasions
           thereof
           ,
           as
           marriages
           ,
           
           &c.
           to
           the
           counsell
           of
           the
           whole
           Church
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           hee
           would
           by
           consequence
           inferre
           the
           like
           of
           occasionall
           absence
           ,
           and
           now
           hee
           weaves
           in
           that
           also
           ,
           as
           if
           it
           were
           practised
           by
           us
           to
           require
           men
           to
           acquaint
           the
           Church
           with
           the
           place
           whither
           they
           goe
           ,
           and
           the
           occasions
           of
           their
           occasionall
           absence
           ,
           which
           is
           farre
           from
           us
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             And
             if
             such
             businesse
             must
             bee
             determined
             on
             the
             Lords
             Day
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           deny
           not
           but
           the
           best
           Churches
           through
           weaknesse
           and
           temptation
           may
           spend
           too
           much
           time
           in
           the
           most
           necessary
           administrations
           of
           censures
           or
           other
           affaires
           :
           but
           to
           possesse
           the
           world
           with
           such
           feares
           upon
           so
           little
           ground
           may
           argue
           the
           authors
           charity
           concerning
           our
           wisdome
           and
           christian
           care
           of
           the
           Sabbath
           was
           not
           very
           great
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             As
             for
             the
             Covenant
             it selfe
             ,
             &c.
             but
             if
             yee
             constraine
             men
             to
             meddle
             with
             things
             that
             belong
             not
             to
             them
             ,
             and
             winde
             them
             up
             higher
             then
             God
             ,
             would
             ,
             and
             straine
             every
             thing
             to
             the
             pitch
             you
             seeme
             here
             to
             doe
             ,
             a
             godly
             sober
             minde
             may
             well
             pause
             before
             hee
             make
             such
             a
             promise
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           the
           authour
           had
           not
           strained
           and
           aggravated
           things
           beyond
           our
           meaning
           in
           the
           answer
           ,
           and
           our
           practise
           ,
           this
           would
           not
           have
           come
           to
           so
           high
           a
           pitch
           to
           trouble
           a
           sober
           godly
           mind
           :
           we
           are
           perswaded
           that
           generally
           sober
           godly
           minds
           ,
           that
           have
           their
           pride
           and
           self-willednesse
           in
           any
           good
           measure
           mortified
           ,
           doe
           count
           the
           yoake
           of
           Christ
           (
           according
           to
           our
           practise
           of
           this
           point
           )
           to
           bee
           both
           easie
           and
           profitable
           ;
           neither
           doe
           wee
           require
           such
           a
           promise
           of
           any
           (
           as
           was
           said
           )
           but
           if
           any
           stumble
           at
           the
           fourth
           branch
           of
           the
           first
           reason
           from
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           let
           us
           a
           little
           here
           cleare
           that
           scruple
           :
           when
           wee
           reason
           from
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           and
           branch
           our
           reason
           into
           foure
           things
           ,
           it
           is
           not
           to
           bee
           so
           taken
           ,
           as
           if
           every
           one
           of
           those
           foure
           things
           were
           made
           a
           distinct
           promise
           in
           our
           solemne
           Covenant
           ,
           for
           the
           fourth
           is
           but
           an
           inference
           from
           the
           three
           former
           ,
           as
           is
           easie
           to
           observe
           and
           indeed
           it
           was
           never
           made
           by
           us
           a
           part
           of
           the
           Covenant
           or
           a
           distinct
           promise
           of
           it
           ,
           either
           in
           our
           judgement
           or
           practise
           .
           If
           because
           we
           extend
           our
           watch
           to
           the
           removals
           of
           brethren
           ,
           it
           be
           taken
           for
           granted
           that
           we
           require
           such
           a
           promise
           ;
           it
           will
           no
           more
           follow
           ,
           then
           that
           we
           require
           promises
           in
           admissions
           in
           a
           thousand
           cases
           to
           which
           our
           watch
           also
           extends
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             any
             shall
             not
             meddle
             with
             every
             businesse
             of
             this
             kinde
             ,
             as
             questioning
          
           
           
             whether
             it
             doe
             belong
             to
             him
             or
             no
             ,
             or
             not
             aske
             the
             advise
             of
             the
             whole
             societie
             ,
             as
             knowing
             the
             most
             bee
             unfit
             to
             counsell
             in
             such
             a
             case
             ,
             doth
             hee
             breake
             his
             Covenant
             therein
             ,
             and
             so
             commit
             a
             sinne
             in
             a
             sort
             like
             the
             sinne
             of
          
           Ananias
           and
           Saphira
           ?
           
             Iudge
             your selves
             if
             in
             other
             cases
             you
             would
             not
             censure
             this
             to
             bee
             an
             high
             incroachment
             upon
             Christian
             libertie
             ,
             and
             a
             strict
             binding
             of
             mens
             consciences
             by
             humane
             constitutions
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           To
           extend
           our
           watch
           so
           farre
           as
           hath
           been
           said
           unto
           these
           cases
           of
           removalls
           from
           a
           Church
           ,
           to
           prevent
           sinne
           in
           abrupt
           breaking
           off
           and
           forsaking
           fellowship
           ,
           and
           to
           prevent
           the
           hurt
           and
           damage
           which
           the
           sheepe
           of
           Christ
           oft
           fall
           into
           in
           their
           unadvised
           breaking
           out
           of
           the
           fold
           the
           Lord
           hath
           placed
           them
           in
           ,
           and
           to
           further
           their
           best
           good
           in
           their
           removalls
           ;
           whatever
           is
           thought
           of
           it
           ,
           wee
           count
           it
           no
           breach
           of
           Christian
           liberty
           ,
           but
           a
           priviledge
           of
           the
           Saints
           to
           bee
           under
           such
           a
           watch
           ,
           and
           therefore
           if
           any
           shall
           neglect
           any
           duty
           that
           one
           owes
           to
           another
           ,
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           it
           tends
           necessarily
           to
           those
           ends
           )
           wee
           may
           well
           reckon
           it
           as
           a
           neglect
           of
           our
           Covenant
           ;
           but
           because
           it
           is
           offensive
           to
           compare
           this
           with
           the
           sinne
           of
           
             Ananias
             ,
             &c.
          
           wee
           intreat
           our
           reverend
           brethren
           and
           the
           Christian
           Reader
           to
           consider
           ,
           that
           in
           the
           answer
           ,
           this
           stands
           in
           the
           third
           thing
           noted
           in
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           and
           hath
           reference
           to
           the
           duties
           of
           the
           Covenant
           in
           generall
           ,
           and
           is
           not
           applyed
           to
           this
           particular
           case
           by
           us
           ,
           nor
           well
           appliable
           in
           the
           manner
           here
           expressed
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           it
           is
           moderated
           in
           the
           answer
           which
           saith
           (
           in
           some
           sort
           hee
           shall
           commit
           that
           sinne
           .
           )
           If
           these
           things
           doe
           not
           satisfie
           ,
           wee
           wish
           it
           expunged
           ,
           or
           any
           other
           seeming
           harshnesse
           ,
           rather
           then
           offence
           be
           given
           to
           any
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           that
           you
           may
           not
           impute
           unto
           us
           the
           infringement
           of
           Christian
           liberty
           herein
           ,
           wee
           would
           acquaint
           all
           men
           with
           these
           two
           things
           .
           First
           ,
           that
           removals
           from
           one
           towne
           and
           Church
           to
           another
           and
           from
           full
           to
           new
           Plantations
           ,
           are
           frequently
           practised
           amongst
           us
           ,
           with
           consent
           and
           approbation
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           that
           wee
           finde
           in
           experience
           ,
           that
           as
           there
           is
           in
           sheepe
           a
           wandring
           disposition
           ,
           so
           in
           this
           large
           Wildernesse
           ,
           (
           wherein
           the
           Lord
           hath
           exercised
           his
           people
           with
           various
           temptations
           ,
           by
           liberties
           ,
           by
           offers
           of
           large
           outward
           accommodations
           ,
           by
           wants
           and
           straights
           ,
           by
           various
           opinions
           vented
           by
           Satan
           and
           his
           instruments
           ,
           &c.
           )
           In
           these
           respects
           the
           Sheepe
           of
           Christ
           are
           so
           subject
           many
           times
           to
           outrunnings
           ,
           that
           wee
           finde
           more
           then
           ordinary
           need
           of
           care
           and
           wisedome
           in
           this
           point
           of
           our
           watch
           in
           many
           cases
           ;
           and
           many
           that
           have
           broke
           loose
           from
           the
           counsels
           of
           their
           officers
           ,
           friends
           ,
           and
           
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           have
           deepely
           smarted
           for
           it
           ;
           How
           sad
           a
           case
           is
           it
           when
           some
           brainsicke
           master
           of
           a
           family
           ,
           transported
           with
           a
           fancy
           ,
           an
           odde
           opinion
           ,
           will
           needs
           carry
           his
           whole
           family
           with
           himselfe
           to
           the
           griefe
           and
           hazard
           of
           his
           godly
           wife
           and
           hopefull
           children
           ,
           &c.
           from
           all
           Ordinances
           of
           Christ
           to
           a
           people
           full
           of
           fanaticall
           errours
           !
           were
           it
           Christian
           liberty
           ,
           or
           dangerous
           licenciousnesse
           to
           leave
           such
           a
           man
           to
           his
           owne
           counsels
           ,
           and
           not
           meddle
           with
           him
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             May
             you
             not
             heare
             from
             your
             owne
             grounds
             ,
             that
             herein
             you
             have
             devised
             an
             expedient
             or
             necessary
             rite
             or
             custome
             to
             prevent
             the
             dissolution
             of
             the
             body
             ,
             which
             never
             came
             into
             he
             minde
             of
             the
             Lord
             Jesus
             the
             Saviour
             of
             his
             body
             ,
             and
             in
             so
             doing
             (
             if
             your
             exposition
             hold
             good
             )
             you
             break
             the
             second
             Commandement
             ;
             and
             so
             presse
             customes
             onely
             expedient
             for
             the
             time
             as
             standing
             rules
             necessary
             for
             all
             times
             and
             all
             persons
             ,
             to
             put
             that
             authority
             into
             the
             hands
             ▪
             of
             men
             which
             God
             never
             put
             upon
             them
             ,
             to
             obliege
             men
             to
             meddle
             in
             the
             affaires
             of
             men
             beyond
             warrant
             ,
             to
             binde
             consciences
             under
             so
             heavy
             ●
             penalty
             as
             that
             of
          
           Ananias
           and
           Saphira
           ,
           
             where
             God
             hath
             not
             bound
             them
             ,
             to
             debarre
             approved
             Christians
             from
             the
             seales
             ,
             because
             they
             cannot
             promise
             as
             seiled
             members
             to
             abide
             in
             the
             society
             ,
             and
             yet
             charge
             them
             as
             men
             that
             against
             light
             refuse
             subjection
             to
             the
             Gospel
             ,
             this
             is
             that
             which
             wee
             cannot
             approve
             ,
             which
             yet
             wee
             suspect
             will
             follow
             from
             your
             judgement
             ,
             and
             desire
             to
             bee
             resolved
             in
             your
             practise
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             ▪
          
           Here
           is
           a
           greater
           heape
           of
           heavy
           criminations
           gathered
           together
           and
           cast
           upon
           us
           ,
           upon
           very
           weake
           grounds
           ,
           upon
           mistakes
           ,
           suspitions
           ,
           and
           (
           wee
           feare
           )
           too
           much
           credulitie
           given
           to
           some
           clamorous
           persons
           ,
           returning
           to
           England
           ,
           and
           too
           little
           credit
           given
           to
           our
           true
           relations
           and
           faithfull
           professions
           :
           most
           of
           these
           have
           beene
           cleared
           in
           the
           former
           passages
           where
           wee
           met
           with
           them
           ,
           and
           wee
           marvell
           how
           they
           come
           in
           so
           twisted
           together
           here
           againe
           ;
           wee
           shall
           here
           onely
           cleare
           our selves
           of
           the
           first
           ,
           and
           referre
           the
           Reader
           to
           their
           proper
           places
           to
           see
           our
           answer
           to
           the
           others
           .
        
         
           Here
           it
           is
           imputed
           unto
           us
           that
           wee
           have
           devised
           a
           rite
           to
           preserve
           the
           unity
           and
           prevent
           the
           dissolutions
           of
           the
           body
           ,
           which
           wee
           conceive
           is
           intended
           of
           this
           promise
           of
           not
           removall
           without
           leave
           ,
           which
           promise
           is
           not
           required
           of
           us
           nor
           made
           in
           our
           Church
           Covenant
           ,
           (
           as
           wee
           have
           said
           )
           and
           the
           ground
           of
           this
           imputation
           is
           also
           a
           meere
           mistake
           arising
           from
           the
           confounding
           of
           a
           second
           answer
           to
           the
           objection
           against
           our
           first
           reason
           ,
           with
           the
           second
           reason
           of
           our
           practise
           ,
           which
           are
           distinct
           and
           have
           a
           different
           ▪
           
           scope
           ,
           for
           whereas
           some
           might
           object
           ,
           that
           this
           reason
           from
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           holds
           with
           such
           as
           grant
           such
           a
           Covenant
           lawfull
           ,
           the
           answer
           saith
           that
           some
           indeed
           question
           the
           necessitie
           of
           it
           :
           but
           wee
           hope
           you
           doe
           not
           question
           the
           lawfulnesse
           ,
           and
           thereupon
           the
           answer
           first
           gives
           reasons
           and
           proofes
           of
           the
           lawfulnesse
           of
           it
           .
           And
           secondly
           ,
           for
           the
           necessitie
           which
           is
           taken
           from
           the
           nature
           of
           all
           societies
           incorporate
           ,
           which
           by
           a
           fundamentall
           rule
           ,
           doe
           require
           of
           all
           that
           enter
           into
           them
           ,
           and
           partake
           of
           the
           priviledges
           thereof
           ,
           to
           conforme
           to
           all
           such
           lawfull
           rites
           and
           orders
           as
           are
           expedient
           for
           the
           well
           being
           of
           that
           society
           ;
           the
           contrary
           whereof
           would
           bee
           injurious
           to
           him
           to
           offer
           ,
           and
           confusion
           in
           them
           to
           accept
           ;
           and
           from
           hence
           it
           easily
           followes
           ,
           that
           a
           Church
           being
           a
           body
           of
           a
           people
           injoying
           priviledges
           together
           ,
           it
           is
           necessary
           fundamentally
           that
           they
           should
           bee
           joyned
           in
           some
           promise
           or
           Covenant
           ,
           which
           Covenant
           (
           though
           in
           civill
           societies
           it
           may
           consist
           in
           rites
           and
           orders
           devised
           by
           themselves
           for
           their
           good
           )
           yet
           in
           the
           Church
           which
           is
           the
           body
           of
           Christ
           ,
           this
           Covenant
           is
           no
           other
           but
           to
           performe
           the
           duties
           required
           in
           the
           Gospel
           towards
           God
           and
           one
           another
           ,
           without
           any
           rites
           or
           order
           ,
           devised
           by
           themselves
           ,
           as
           wee
           professed
           in
           setting
           forth
           the
           nature
           of
           the
           Covenant
           ;
           and
           this
           being
           the
           true
           scope
           of
           those
           words
           ,
           let
           any
           judge
           what
           ground
           is
           given
           by
           us
           of
           such
           an
           imputation
           of
           devising
           rites
           ,
           &c.
           
           Neither
           doth
           the
           second
           reason
           in
           the
           answer
           give
           any
           ground
           of
           this
           imputation
           ;
           for
           though
           it
           dispute
           from
           the
           necessary
           ruine
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           and
           all
           Churches
           ,
           if
           it
           were
           lawfull
           for
           any
           member
           when
           ,
           whither
           and
           wherefore
           hee
           please
           to
           depart
           from
           the
           Church
           without
           consent
           :
           yet
           there
           is
           not
           one
           syllable
           that
           gives
           an
           hint
           of
           any
           rite
           ,
           custome
           or
           order
           devised
           by
           us
           ,
           to
           prevent
           the
           same
           ,
           but
           for
           the
           avoyding
           thereof
           wee
           still
           wholly
           and
           onely
           bind
           our selves
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           the
           Word
           ,
           to
           direct
           ,
           order
           ,
           and
           reforme
           all
           actions
           of
           this
           nature
           ,
           and
           to
           shew
           unto
           men
           whether
           they
           may
           lawfully
           remove
           or
           not
           remove
           ,
           not
           requiring
           any
           expresse
           promise
           to
           the
           contrary
           in
           this
           particular
           no
           more
           then
           in
           others
           ;
           and
           thus
           wee
           hope
           wee
           have
           resolved
           you
           of
           our
           practise
           ,
           as
           you
           desired
           .
           To
           conclude
           this
           passage
           ,
           give
           us
           leave
           without
           offence
           to
           say
           thus
           much
           .
        
         
           Although
           (
           through
           the
           grace
           of
           Christ
           ▪
           )
           we
           desire
           humbly
           to
           submit
           to
           this
           part
           of
           our
           tryall
           ,
           even
           to
           goe
           through
           evill
           report
           as
           well
           as
           good
           ,
           yea
           all
           the
           reproaches
           and
           cruell
           mockings
           of
           the
           world
           ,
           knowing
           that
           wee
           have
           deserved
           much
           more
           from
           
           the
           hand
           of
           that
           God
           without
           whose
           providence
           a
           tongue
           could
           not
           move
           against
           us
           ;
           yet
           wee
           cannot
           but
           account
           it
           one
           of
           our
           poorest
           afflictions
           to
           suffer
           in
           this
           kind
           ,
           from
           the
           pens
           or
           tongues
           of
           our
           dearly
           beloved
           brethren
           ,
           for
           whom
           wee
           daily
           pray
           ,
           and
           to
           whom
           wee
           hope
           wee
           shall
           never
           bee
           provoked
           to
           returne
           any
           other
           language
           then
           savouring
           of
           love
           and
           respect
           .
           But
           wee
           must
           confesse
           wee
           meet
           with
           so
           many
           sore
           criminations
           ,
           (
           oft
           upon
           meere
           mistakes
           )
           cast
           not
           onely
           upon
           our selves
           ,
           but
           the
           truth
           and
           wayes
           of
           God
           ,
           which
           wee
           professe
           ,
           and
           that
           both
           by
           this
           learned
           author
           and
           some
           others
           ,
           that
           wee
           cannot
           be
           so
           senselesse
           of
           the
           dishonour
           is
           reflected
           upon
           the
           truth
           of
           God
           herein
           ,
           as
           wholly
           to
           bee
           silent
           ,
           and
           groane
           out
           the
           griefe
           of
           our
           spirits
           to
           him
           that
           knoweth
           our
           hearts
           :
           wherefore
           wee
           humbly
           beseech
           all
           our
           godly
           brethren
           ,
           to
           beare
           with
           us
           a
           little
           ,
           if
           after
           all
           the
           harsh
           passages
           of
           this
           Reply
           ,
           such
           an
           heape
           of
           accusations
           as
           are
           here
           throwne
           upon
           us
           ▪
           move
           us
           to
           present
           to
           the
           Reader
           a
           short
           view
           of
           such
           things
           as
           are
           unjustly
           and
           ungroundedly
           cast
           upon
           us
           ,
           and
           which
           wee
           cannot
           but
           thinke
           hath
           drawne
           a
           black
           cloud
           over
           the
           glory
           of
           the
           holy
           Discipline
           of
           Christ
           which
           hee
           hath
           here
           set
           up
           among
           us
           .
        
         
           To
           omit
           the
           generall
           frame
           of
           this
           Reply
           ,
           in
           presenting
           our
           opinions
           and
           wayes
           to
           the
           people
           as
           if
           wee
           concurred
           generally
           with
           those
           of
           the
           Rigid
           separation
           ,
           and
           differed
           almost
           in
           every
           thing
           from
           such
           godly
           brethren
           as
           have
           breathed
           after
           puritie
           of
           Ordinances
           and
           Reformation
           .
        
         
           To
           omit
           also
           the
           frequent
           inserting
           of
           such
           termes
           unto
           our
           questions
           and
           arguments
           contrary
           to
           the
           true
           state
           thereof
           ,
           which
           render
           every
           thing
           harst
           and
           full
           of
           rigidnesse
           to
           the
           eares
           of
           the
           Reader
           as
           have
           been
           observed
           by
           us
           .
        
         
           And
           omitting
           also
           divers
           other
           suppositions
           and
           objections
           ,
           we
           shall
           onely
           desire
           those
           who
           have
           taken
           up
           evill
           thoughts
           concerning
           these
           Churches
           and
           the
           wayes
           of
           Christ
           wee
           walke
           in
           from
           this
           Reply
           ,
           to
           note
           these
           particular
           imputations
           in
           this
           short
           Chapter
           ,
           and
           upon
           what
           grounds
           they
           are
           built
           .
        
         
           As
           page
           79.
           
           That
           wee
           hinder
           men
           from
           entrance
           into
           Church
           society
           ,
           because
           they
           cannot
           promise
           continuance
           in
           the
           Place
           ▪
           and
           running
           upon
           this
           straine
           he
           saith
           :
        
         
           
             Was
             it
             ever
             heard
             of
             in
             the
             Church
             of
             God
             from
             the
             beginning
             thereof
             unto
             this
             day
             ,
             that
             any
             such
             thing
             was
             propounded
             unto
             and
             required
             of
             members
             ,
             to
             bee
             admitted
             into
             Church
             fellowship
             ?
          
           Here
           is
           a
           loud
           
           outcry
           ,
           and
           who
           would
           not
           think
           but
           that
           we
           usually
           propound
           and
           require
           such
           a
           thing
           in
           our
           admissions
           ,
           (
           which
           yet
           is
           nothing
           so
           .
           )
           But
           what
           is
           the
           ground
           of
           all
           this
           ?
           Looke
           a
           little
           before
           and
           hee
           saith
           ,
           If
           such
           a
           promise
           be
           required
           .
        
         
           Againe
           ibidem
           saith
           hee
           ,
           wee
           thinke
           the
           Church
           is
           over-rigid
           in
           exacting
           such
           a
           condition
           of
           the
           members
           ,
           and
           the
           members
           goe
           beyond
           their
           measure
           as
           busie
           bodies
           ,
           and
           what
           is
           the
           ground
           ?
           It
           followes
           ,
           If
           they
           arrogate
           such
           a
           power
           to
           themselves
           .
        
         
           So
           page
           next
           80.
           
           In
           the
           word
           it
           is
           not
           commanded
           that
           no
           member
           should
           remove
           or
           occasionally
           be
           absent
           from
           the
           place
           of
           his
           habitation
           before
           he
           have
           acquainted
           the
           congregation
           whither
           he
           goeth
           ,
           on
           what
           occasion
           ,
           &c.
           
           To
           what
           end
           is
           this
           inserted
           if
           not
           to
           suggest
           that
           there
           is
           such
           a
           practise
           among
           us
           that
           a
           man
           may
           not
           occasionally
           be
           absent
           ,
           &c.
           which
           is
           far
           from
           us
           ?
           And
           what
           is
           the
           ground
           see
           a
           few
           lines
           after
           ,
           The
           Church
           shall
           burthen
           herselfe
           ,
           &c.
           
           If
           shee
           take
           upon
           her
           to
           intermeddle
           in
           all
           such
           occasions
           .
        
         
           
             And
             immediatly
             after
             ,
             wee
             feare
             the
             time
             appointed
             for
             religious
             exercises
             should
             bee
             profaned
             by
             unseasonable
             disputes
             .
          
        
         
           But
           what
           is
           the
           ground
           of
           this
           feare
           conceived
           and
           published
           to
           the
           world
           ,
           
             viz.
             If
          
           such
           businesses
           must
           bee
           determined
           on
           the
           Lords
           day
           ?
           and
           that
           before
           the
           Ordinances
           ,
           &c.
           because
           it
           seemes
           Robinson
           in
           case
           of
           some
           notorious
           obstinate
           offender
           ,
           would
           have
           some
           censure
           passed
           to
           prevent
           pollution
           of
           an
           Ordinance
           ;
           and
           is
           this
           ground
           sufficient
           ?
        
         
           Againe
           in
           the
           same
           page
           (
           for
           these
           things
           are
           thick
           sowne
           )
           Herein
           ,
           saith
           he
           ,
           
             you
             have
             devised
             an
             expedient
             or
             necessary
             rite
             or
             custome
             to
             preserve
             unity
             ,
             &c.
          
           but
           if
           you
           seeke
           a
           ground
           it
           will
           bee
           found
           a
           mistake
           ▪
           ●s
           is
           shewed
           before
           ,
           and
           contrary
           to
           the
           expresse
           profession
           of
           the
           Answer
           ,
           That
           wee
           promise
           no
           new
           duties
           ,
           but
           onely
           such
           as
           the
           Gospell
           requires
           of
           all
           Saints
           in
           Church
           order
           ,
           much
           lesse
           doe
           wee
           set
           up
           new
           rites
           and
           customes
           .
        
         
           And
           as
           if
           all
           these
           particular
           imputations
           in
           the
           compasse
           of
           one
           leafe
           were
           two
           little
           ,
           Page
           next
           81.
           wee
           have
           a
           whole
           Catalogue
           gathered
           together
           from
           other
           places
           and
           this
           ,
           that
           by
           laying
           things
           together
           the
           
             odium
             ▪
          
           raised
           might
           stick
           the
           deeper
           :
           for
           thus
           the
           words
           are
           ,
           
             But
             to
             presse
             customes
             expedient
             for
             the
             time
             as
             standing
             rules
             ,
             necessary
             at
             all
             times
             and
             all
             persons
             ;
             To
             put
             authority
             in
             the
             hands
             of
             men
             which
             God
             never
             put
             upon
             them
             ,
             and
             to
             oblige
             them
             to
             intermeddle
             ;
             To
             bind
             the
             consciences
             of
             men
             ,
             and
             that
             upon
             so
             heavy
             a
             penaltie
             as
             the
             sinne
             of
          
           Ananias
           and
           Saphira
           ,
           
             where
             God
             hath
             not
             bound
             it
             ▪
          
           
           
             To
             debarre
             knowne
             Christians
             from
             the
             seales
             ,
             because
             they
             cannot
             promise
             to
             abide
             in
             the
             Church
             as
             setled
             members
             ;
             and
             yet
             charge
             them
             in
             the
             meane
             season
             against
             light
             to
             refuse
             subjection
             to
             the
             Gospel
             .
          
           Concerning
           all
           which
           wee
           doe
           not
           know
           any
           of
           them
           to
           be
           true
           ,
           nor
           approve
           any
           such
           thing
           in
           any
           ,
           if
           it
           should
           be
           found
           among
           us
           .
           And
           what
           is
           the
           ground
           of
           all
           this
           ?
           Truely
           weake
           enough
           (
           as
           hath
           been
           shewed
           in
           our
           discourse
           )
           and
           here
           it
           is
           the
           suspicion
           of
           the
           Author
           ,
           for
           thus
           hee
           adds
           ,
           This
           is
           that
           wee
           cannot
           approve
           ,
           and
           yet
           wee
           suspect
           will
           follow
           from
           your
           judgement
           .
        
         
           These
           things
           wee
           have
           thus
           briefly
           presented
           in
           one
           view
           not
           to
           dishonour
           the
           learned
           and
           reverend
           Author
           ,
           whose
           memory
           wee
           honour
           ;
           two
           things
           we
           charitably
           take
           notice
           of
           ,
           to
           remove
           over
           hard
           thoughts
           of
           him
           :
           First
           ,
           wee
           consider
           his
           spirit
           might
           bee
           over
           grieved
           and
           provoked
           to
           this
           harshnesse
           by
           the
           withdrawings
           of
           many
           Christians
           from
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           because
           dispensed
           according
           to
           the
           corrupt
           Liturgy
           ,
           in
           which
           cause
           he
           stood
           too
           farre
           ingaged
           ,
           and
           supposing
           New-England
           wayes
           the
           cause
           of
           it
           ,
           he
           was
           the
           more
           sharpe
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           wee
           consider
           that
           this
           Reply
           was
           not
           intended
           by
           him
           to
           be
           published
           to
           the
           world
           ,
           but
           to
           be
           sent
           unto
           us
           ,
           and
           therefore
           he
           is
           in
           our
           hearts
           the
           lesse
           blamable
           .
        
         
           But
           seeing
           these
           things
           are
           now
           published
           ,
           and
           the
           harshnesse
           thereof
           may
           do
           much
           hurt
           ,
           wee
           were
           pressed
           to
           cleare
           our selves
           ,
           wherein
           if
           any
           thing
           ▪
           reflect
           upon
           the
           Author
           or
           Publishers
           ,
           wee
           cannot
           avoyd
           it
           .
        
         
           Neither
           doe
           wee
           write
           thus
           as
           if
           wee
           would
           wholly
           justifie
           our selves
           and
           all
           the
           particular
           miscarriages
           that
           happily
           at
           one
           time
           or
           other
           ,
           in
           some
           Church
           or
           other
           may
           have
           happened
           ;
           we
           have
           much
           cause
           to
           humble
           our selves
           before
           our
           God
           and
           abase
           our selves
           to
           the
           dust
           before
           men
           ,
           for
           all
           the
           weakenesses
           ,
           sinnes
           ,
           errors
           and
           miscarriages
           that
           have
           beene
           found
           among
           us
           ,
           in
           one
           kind
           and
           another
           .
        
         
           Onely
           this
           wee
           may
           professe
           before
           the
           Lord
           and
           his
           people
           ,
           that
           in
           the
           maine
           scope
           of
           our
           hearts
           and
           indeavours
           of
           our
           lives
           wee
           have
           sought
           after
           such
           a
           forme
           of
           worship
           ,
           and
           frame
           of
           discipline
           ,
           as
           we
           could
           conceive
           by
           the
           Word
           of
           God
           and
           the
           helpe
           of
           the
           best
           Reformers
           to
           bee
           according
           to
           the
           will
           of
           Christ
           ,
           not
           allowing
           our selves
           in
           any
           evill
           discovered
           unto
           us
           ,
           but
           bewayling
           our
           great
           defects
           in
           all
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             And
             here
             wee
             crave
             leave
             to
             put
             you
             in
             mind
             of
             what
             you
             have
             considered
          
           
           
             already
             .
             That
             the
             Church
             and
             every
             member
             have
             entered
             into
             Covenant
             ,
             to
             take
             God
             for
             their
             God
             ,
             &c.
             but
             wee
             never
             finde
             that
             they
             were
             called
             to
             give
             account
             of
             the
             worke
             of
             grace
             wrought
             in
             their
             soules
             ,
             or
             that
             the
             whole
             Congregation
             were
             to
             bee
             judge
             thereof
             .
             You
             stand
             here
             all
             this
             day
             (
             saith
             Moses
             )
             before
             the
             Lord
             your
             God
             ,
             &c.
             that
             thou
             shouldest
             enter
             into
             Covenant
             with
             the
             Lord
             thy
             God.
             All
             that
             were
             borne
             in
             the
             wildernesse
          
           Joshua
           
             circumcised
             ,
             but
             it
             is
             uncredible
             to
             thinke
             there
             was
             none
             that
             did
             not
             give
             good
             testimony
             of
             the
             worke
             of
             grace
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           Because
           it
           is
           a
           principall
           thing
           ,
           especially
           in
           the
           builders
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           to
           know
           their
           materials
           ,
           and
           because
           the
           reverend
           and
           learned
           Author
           steps
           somewhat
           out
           of
           his
           way
           to
           call
           us
           to
           give
           answer
           in
           this
           controversie
           of
           such
           great
           weight
           ,
           (
           especially
           in
           this
           present
           turne
           of
           times
           )
           wee
           shall
           therefore
           gladly
           accept
           of
           this
           occasion
           to
           declare
           our selves
           ,
           with
           as
           much
           brevity
           as
           we
           may
           ,
           to
           the
           two
           branches
           of
           the
           question
           .
        
         
           
             Qu.
             
          
           First
           ,
           Whether
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           are
           called
           to
           give
           an
           account
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           at
           there
           admission
           thereunto
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
             1.
             
          
           Secondly
           ,
           Whether
           the
           whole
           Church
           is
           to
           be
           judge
           hereof
           .
        
         
           Whether
           the
           members
           of
           the
           Church
           be
           called
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           For
           answer
           to
           which
           wee
           shall
           expresse
           our selves
           in
           these
           particulars
           ,
           to
           prevent
           mistakes
           .
           First
           ,
           that
           the
           question
           is
           not
           of
           what
           may
           keepe
           a
           Church
           already
           constituted
           from
           being
           accounted
           no
           Church
           ,
           but
           of
           what
           is
           to
           bee
           required
           of
           such
           as
           joyne
           unto
           a
           Church
           ,
           for
           a
           Church
           may
           bee
           a
           true
           Church
           ,
           and
           yet
           be
           very
           corrupt
           ,
           (
           as
           is
           generally
           observed
           by
           Protestant
           writers
           ,
           hoth
           out
           of
           the
           examples
           of
           some
           Churches
           in
           the
           New
           Te●●ament
           ,
           and
           that
           of
           the
           Old
           in
           the
           great
           Apostasie
           thereof
           )
           wee
           thinke
           (
           in
           this
           same
           )
           Doctor
           Fields
           expressions
           may
           be
           safely
           
           received
           :
           
             Some
             professe
             Christ
          
           (
           saith
           hee
           )
           
             but
             not
             wholly
             and
             intirely
             ,
             as
             Heretiques
             :
             some
             professe
             the
             whole
             saving
             truth
             ,
             but
             not
             in
             unity
             ,
             as
             Schismatiques
             :
             some
             professe
             it
             in
             unty
             ,
             but
             not
             in
             sincerity
             ,
             as
             prophaine
             persons
             and
             Hypocrites
             :
             some
             in
             unity
             and
             sincerity
             :
             all
             these
             are
             partakers
             of
             the
             heavenly
             calling
             by
             profession
             of
             the
             truth
             ,
             and
             consequently
             in
             some
             degree
             and
             sort
             the
             Church
             &c.
             
          
           But
           (
           wee
           thinke
           that
           (
           this
           is
           no
           argument
           ,
           that
           either
           Heretiques
           ,
           Schismatickes
           ,
           prophane
           persons
           ,
           or
           Hypocrites
           (
           if
           convictively
           discovered
           that
           such
           are
           meet
           matter
           to
           be
           joyned
           to
           a
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           when
           a
           worke
           of
           grace
           is
           required
           and
           desired
           of
           those
           
           who
           are
           to
           joyne
           to
           a
           Church
           ,
           the
           meaning
           is
           not
           as
           if
           wee
           allowed
           none
           to
           bee
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           
             reall
             Saints
          
           ,
           and
           such
           as
           give
           demonstrative
           evidence
           of
           being
           members
           of
           the
           invisible
           Church
           ;
           for
           we
           professe
           (
           according
           to
           the
           Scripture
           and
           generall
           doctrine
           of
           all
           reformed
           Churches
           (
           what
           ever
           their
           practise
           bee
           )
           that
           it
           is
           not
           reall
           ,
           but
           visible
           faith
           ,
           not
           the
           inward
           being
           ,
           but
           the
           outward
           profession
           of
           faith
           ,
           (
           whence
           men
           are
           called
           visible
           Saints
           )
           that
           constitutes
           a
           visible
           Church
           ,
           which
           faith
           so
           professed
           is
           called
           visible
           ,
           not
           in
           the
           judgement
           of
           certainty
           ,
           from
           such
           infallible
           signes
           of
           it
           ,
           as
           may
           demonstrate
           the
           hidden
           being
           of
           it
           within
           ;
           but
           in
           the
           judgement
           of
           charity
           which
           hopes
           the
           best
           .
           (
           1
           Cor.
           12
           ▪
           7
           )
           in
           the
           weakest
           Christian
           and
           meanest
           profession
           ,
           even
           when
           it
           sometimes
           feares
           the
           worst
           ,
           and
           is
           not
           able
           at
           the
           present
           ,
           to
           convince
           the
           contrary
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           this
           judgment
           of
           charity
           (
           concerning
           the
           truth
           of
           anothers
           profession
           ,
           or
           that
           which
           is
           called
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           )
           is
           to
           be
           regulated
           by
           the
           word
           ,
           which
           Christ
           hath
           left
           as
           a
           compleat
           rule
           ,
           not
           onely
           of
           faith
           but
           also
           of
           love
           ,
           and
           charity
           to
           guide
           both
           in
           their
           acts
           unto
           their
           ends
           :
           and
           hence
           large
           professions
           and
           long
           relations
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           (
           though
           full
           of
           exceeding
           glory
           ,
           when
           humbly
           and
           prudently
           made
           )
           wee
           exact
           not
           rigorously
           and
           necessarily
           of
           all
           ,
           because
           the
           rule
           of
           charity
           directs
           us
           not
           so
           to
           judge
           ;
           because
           many
           Christians
           may
           bee
           drawne
           to
           Christ
           ,
           and
           have
           a
           seed
           of
           faith
           ,
           yet
           may
           sometimes
           not
           know
           it
           ,
           sometimes
           remember
           not
           the
           working
           of
           it
           ,
           sometimes
           (
           through
           bashfulnesse
           ,
           feare
           ,
           want
           of
           parts
           ,
           nor
           not
           trained
           up
           under
           a
           knowing
           Ministery
           )
           not
           be
           able
           to
           professe
           it
           so
           fully
           and
           clearely
           ;
           hence
           also
           to
           keepe
           out
           others
           from
           Communion
           out
           of
           groundlesse
           feares
           ,
           that
           all
           their
           profession
           might
           bee
           in
           hypocrisie
           ,
           wee
           allow
           not
           ,
           because
           no
           man
           in
           his
           charity
           is
           to
           bee
           ruled
           by
           his
           feares
           ,
           but
           by
           the
           word
           ;
           hence
           also
           to
           account
           any
           unfit
           for
           the
           Church
           ,
           because
           their
           hearts
           cannot
           close
           with
           them
           ,
           or
           because
           they
           like
           not
           their
           spirits
           ,
           speake
           not
           with
           favour
           or
           any
           such
           like
           principles
           ,
           and
           yet
           can
           give
           no
           rule
           or
           convicting
           argument
           from
           the
           word
           ,
           why
           thus
           they
           doe
           ,
           we
           thinke
           is
           rigou●
           ,
           not
           charity
           regulated
           by
           the
           word
           ;
           for
           humane
           charity
           doth
           not
           make
           Gods
           Church
           ,
           but
           such
           persons
           which
           from
           God
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Gods
           charity
           ,
           is
           to
           receive
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           rule
           is
           to
           be
           attended
           here
           :
           it
           is
           necessary
           to
           looke
           for
           a
           ground
           of
           certainty
           to
           faith
           ,
           but
           not
           for
           charity
           ,
           which
           cannot
           bee
           infallibly
           ▪
           
           certaine
           of
           anothers
           estate
           ,
           and
           therefore
           upon
           a
           hopefull
           supposition
           that
           the
           premises
           their
           profession
           is
           true
           ,
           hopefully
           onely
           makes
           the
           conclusion
           .
        
         
           The
           question
           ●eing
           brought
           to
           this
           narrow
           ,
           it
           will
           here
           lye
           ,
           viz.
           
        
         
           First
           ,
           Whether
           profession
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           ,
           and
           faith
           be
           not
           required
           of
           those
           that
           enter
           into
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           With
           what
           profession
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           ,
           charity
           (
           according
           to
           a
           rule
           )
           is
           to
           rest
           satisfied
           .
        
         
           
           The
           first
           wee
           thinke
           is
           writ
           with
           the
           beames
           of
           the
           Sunne
           ,
           for
           it
           is
           evident
           ,
           that
           neither
           the
           Lord
           in
           the
           Old
           Testament
           ,
           Exod.
           19.
           or
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           
             Acts
             ▪
          
           2.
           and
           in
           other
           like
           Scriptures
           ,
           did
           call
           for
           a
           profession
           of
           the
           Doctrine
           of
           faith
           onely
           ,
           but
           especially
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           faith
           ;
           for
           when
           the
           Lord
           promised
           to
           be
           a
           God
           to
           his
           people
           ,
           
             Exd.
             19.
             
             Deut.
          
           29.
           it
           was
           not
           with
           this
           condition
           ,
           if
           they
           did
           beleeve
           his
           word
           to
           bee
           true
           ,
           &c.
           but
           if
           they
           will
           heare
           his
           voyce
           ,
           and
           keepe
           his
           Covenant
           ,
           which
           (
           in
           a
           prepared
           people
           )
           is
           a
           manifestation
           of
           a
           worke
           of
           grace
           .
           So
           when
           the
           Apostles
           were
           required
           to
           goe
           preach
           to
           all
           Nations
           ,
           and
           baptize
           them
           and
           teach
           them
           ,
           looke
           as
           they
           did
           require
           such
           a
           faith
           as
           was
           saving
           ,
           (
           he
           that
           beleeveth
           shall
           bee
           saved
           )
           so
           upon
           the
           ▪
           profession
           thereof
           they
           did
           receive
           them
           ,
           as
           also
           appeares
           ,
           Acts
           2.
           38.
           
           (
           which
           therefore
           could
           not
           bee
           of
           the
           doctrine
           of
           faith
           ,
           for
           that
           the
           devils
           doe
           ,
           and
           tremble
           ,
           and
           profane
           men
           of
           much
           knowledge
           ,
           may
           doe
           ,
           and
           yet
           unfit
           to
           bee
           received
           ,
           and
           therefore
           it
           was
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           faith
           ,
           and
           therefore
           
             Act.
             8.
             37.
             
             Philip
          
           not
           onely
           requires
           faith
           ,
           but
           a
           beleeving
           with
           all
           the
           heart
           of
           the
           Eunuch
           ,
           and
           upon
           such
           a
           profession
           baptized
           him
           :
           and
           hence
           the
           Churches
           erected
           by
           the
           Apostles
           at
           
             Corinth
             ,
             Colosse
             ,
             Ephesus
             ,
             &c.
          
           are
           called
           Saints
           ,
           and
           sanctified
           of
           God
           in
           Christ
           Jesus
           ,
           &c.
           How
           !
           was
           it
           because
           debito
           and
           
             de
             jure
          
           onely
           ,
           they
           should
           be
           so
           ?
           then
           all
           who
           heare
           the
           Gospell
           (
           though
           they
           reject
           it
           )
           might
           bee
           called
           a
           Church
           ,
           for
           
             de
             jure
          
           ,
           they
           ought
           to
           be
           so
           ;
           Or
           was
           it
           because
           there
           were
           some
           that
           were
           truely
           such
           amongst
           them
           ,
           and
           so
           
             in
             concreto
          
           ,
           are
           called
           a
           Church
           and
           body
           of
           Christ
           ?
           not
           onely
           so
           ,
           for
           there
           may
           be
           some
           visible
           Churches
           of
           visible
           Saints
           ,
           and
           yet
           none
           among
           them
           of
           the
           invisible
           Church
           ,
           unlesse
           any
           will
           thinke
           ,
           that
           to
           bee
           of
           the
           Church
           invisible
           is
           essentiall
           to
           the
           beeing
           and
           title
           of
           a
           visible
           Church
           :
           and
           therefore
           it
           was
           from
           their
           profession
           of
           saving
           faith
           which
           they
           maintained
           
           being
           a
           Church
           ,
           as
           it
           was
           required
           to
           the
           gathering
           into
           a
           Church
           :
           
             John
             Baptist
          
           also
           ,
           (
           though
           hee
           baptized
           none
           into
           a
           new
           Church
           ,
           (
           and
           therefore
           might
           require
           the
           lesse
           )
           yet
           as
           he
           really
           promised
           remission
           of
           sinnes
           by
           the
           Messiah
           ,
           so
           hee
           required
           that
           very
           faith
           and
           repentance
           which
           might
           make
           them
           partakers
           of
           this
           heavenly
           benefit
           ;
           and
           therefore
           ,
           if
           what
           hee
           required
           ,
           they
           manifested
           by
           their
           profession
           ,
           and
           confession
           of
           sinnes
           ,
           it
           was
           not
           onely
           to
           beleeve
           the
           doctrine
           of
           faith
           ,
           but
           a
           saving
           worke
           of
           faith
           which
           they
           held
           forth
           .
           And
           therefore
           it
           is
           not
           an
           outward
           profession
           of
           faith
           ,
           according
           to
           a
           Creed
           which
           is
           required
           ,
           for
           then
           a
           Papist
           is
           fit
           matter
           for
           a
           Church
           ,
           nor
           willingnesse
           to
           heare
           the
           Word
           and
           receive
           the
           Sacraments
           ,
           for
           then
           heapes
           of
           prophane
           persons
           are
           to
           bee
           received
           into
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           it
           's
           profession
           of
           a
           worke
           ,
           and
           saving
           worke
           of
           grace
           ,
           which
           being
           ever
           required
           in
           the
           purest
           times
           ,
           is
           no
           novell
           invention
           of
           some
           more
           rigidly
           inclined
           in
           these
           things
           .
        
         
           
           To
           the
           second
           ,
           with
           what
           profession
           (
           charity
           ,
           according
           to
           rule
           )
           is
           to
           rest
           satisfied
           ?
        
         
           Wee
           answer
           ,
           that
           there
           is
           a
           breadth
           in
           charity
           according
           to
           rule
           and
           profession
           of
           faith
           being
           but
           
             testimonium
             humanum
          
           ,
           or
           a
           mans
           owne
           testimony
           concerning
           himselfe
           ,
           therefore
           as
           in
           the
           most
           eminent
           profession
           ,
           
             potest
             subesse
             falsum
          
           ,
           there
           may
           bee
           hypocrisie
           latent
           ,
           (
           it
           being
           no
           divine
           testimony
           )
           so
           in
           the
           weakest
           profession
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           faith
           ,
           
             potest
             subesse
             verum
             ,
             id
             est
             ,
          
           there
           may
           be
           truth
           in
           the
           bottome
           :
           hence
           (
           man
           leaving
           all
           secrets
           to
           God
           )
           the
           worke
           of
           grace
           wherewith
           charity
           is
           to
           be
           satisfied
           ,
           is
           one
           of
           these
           two
           .
           First
           ,
           either
           with
           that
           which
           is
           onely
           verball
           ,
           and
           appeares
           to
           be
           false
           by
           conviction
           from
           the
           word
           :
           Or
           secondly
           ,
           with
           that
           which
           appeares
           to
           bee
           reall
           ,
           which
           however
           it
           may
           bee
           false
           ,
           yet
           it
           is
           beyond
           the
           power
           of
           man
           to
           convince
           (
           by
           a
           rule
           )
           that
           so
           it
           is
           .
           We
           confesse
           wee
           are
           fearefull
           as
           of
           opening
           the
           doore
           too
           wide
           ,
           so
           of
           shutting
           the
           doores
           upon
           any
           whom
           God
           would
           have
           us
           to
           receive
           in
           ,
           but
           for
           what
           yet
           wee
           see
           or
           read
           ,
           from
           the
           arguments
           here
           alledged
           in
           this
           Author
           ,
           or
           the
           writings
           of
           others
           godly
           learned
           :
           wee
           thinke
           that
           Church
           charity
           is
           not
           to
           rest
           satisfied
           with
           the
           first
           ,
           but
           with
           the
           latter
           ;
           for
           let
           the
           profession
           of
           the
           worke
           of
           faith
           bee
           ▪
           never
           so
           short
           ,
           or
           so
           weake
           ,
           let
           it
           be
           by
           their
           owne
           immediate
           relation
           or
           by
           question
           ,
           yet
           if
           it
           may
           but
           appeare
           to
           a
           regulated
           charity
           so
           as
           to
           hope
           that
           it
           is
           reall
           ,
           it
           is
           to
           rest
           satisfied
           then
           ,
           till
           God
           make
           discovery
           to
           the
           
           contrary
           ;
           wee
           intend
           not
           to
           heape
           up
           arguments
           ,
           nor
           answer
           scruples
           ,
           but
           these
           foure
           things
           seeme
           to
           evince
           as
           much
           .
        
         
           1
           That
           the
           Apostles
           in
           the
           3000.
           converted
           Acts
           2.
           as
           they
           were
           very
           ready
           to
           receive
           them
           to
           the
           fold
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           therefore
           in
           one
           day
           immediatly
           received
           so
           many
           thousands
           (
           which
           could
           not
           bee
           by
           large
           profession
           of
           every
           one
           )
           so
           also
           they
           attended
           to
           the
           truth
           of
           that
           profession
           ,
           and
           therfore
           it
           was
           not
           bare
           profession
           of
           faith
           ,
           but
           (
           as
           it
           is
           set
           downe
           for
           our
           patterne
           )
           it
           was
           such
           a
           profession
           as
           was
           evidently
           joyned
           with
           humiliation
           ,
           pricking
           at
           the
           heart
           ,
           mourning
           ,
           and
           crying
           out
           before
           the
           Apostles
           What
           shall
           wee
           doe
           ▪
           to
           be
           saved
           ,
           gladly
           receiving
           the
           word
           ,
           which
           are
           reall
           testimonies
           of
           some
           reall
           change
           from
           what
           they
           were
           but
           a
           little
           before
           ,
           and
           upon
           this
           ground
           the
           Apostles
           received
           them
           .
        
         
           2
           The
           Apostles
           charge
           to
           
             Timothy
             ,
             2
             Tim.
          
           3.
           5.
           
           From
           such
           as
           have
           a
           forme
           of
           godlinesse
           and
           deny
           the
           power
           of
           it
           ,
           turne
           away
           ;
           if
           bare
           profession
           were
           sufficient
           ,
           why
           should
           Timothy
           turne
           from
           them
           ?
           (
           but
           rather
           receive
           them
           who
           had
           a
           forme
           of
           profession
           .
           )
           And
           if
           it
           was
           in
           his
           power
           to
           avoyd
           them
           ,
           why
           should
           he
           not
           reject
           them
           ,
           and
           that
           not
           onely
           from
           private
           but
           Church
           communion
           also
           ,
           supposing
           them
           such
           as
           not
           o
           ney
           had
           a
           forme
           ,
           but
           might
           be
           by
           a
           rule
           convinced
           thereof
           ?
        
         
           3
           Lying
           and
           apparent
           untruth
           cannot
           make
           a
           man
           fit
           matter
           
           for
           a
           Church
           ,
           and
           therefore
           cannot
           bee
           a
           ground
           for
           charity
           to
           rest
           on
           ,
           that
           so
           he
           is
           :
           but
           verball
           profession
           ,
           which
           appeares
           not
           to
           bee
           reall
           but
           false
           ,
           is
           palpable
           lying
           ,
           and
           indeed
           more
           fit
           to
           destroy
           the
           Church
           then
           to
           make
           the
           Church
           .
           Hence
           Sanctius
           in
           
             Zach
             ▪
          
           14.
           14
           ▪
           observes
           that
           the
           greatest
           enemies
           of
           the
           Church
           are
           such
           ,
           
             qui
             eum
             fidem
             retineant
             sanctitatem
             abj●cerunt
             .
          
        
         
           4
           If
           bare
           profession
           of
           faith
           is
           a
           sufficient
           ground
           to
           receive
           men
           into
           the
           Church
           ,
           then
           an
           excommunicate
           person
           cast
           cut
           in
           one
           houre
           should
           bee
           immediatly
           received
           in
           againe
           ,
           if
           hee
           will
           but
           renew
           his
           generall
           profession
           of
           faith
           ;
           nay
           they
           the
           Indians
           in
           Maryland
           ,
           who
           will
           put
           on
           and
           put
           off
           this
           profession
           ,
           as
           their
           ghostly
           fathers
           the
           Popish
           Priests
           will
           bestow
           or
           withhold
           garments
           and
           shirts
           upon
           them
           ;
           should
           in
           charitie
           bee
           received
           into
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
           But
           if
           it
           should
           bee
           asked
           how
           charity
           may
           know
           the
           reality
           of
           this
           profession
           ,
           we
           answer
           ;
           so
           long
           as
           the
           rule
           bee
           attended
           wee
           leave
           every
           one
           to
           the
           wisedome
           of
           Christ
           ,
           to
           make
           ▪
           application
           
           thereof
           ,
           onely
           this
           we
           doe
           add
           in
           generall
           for
           more
           full
           satisfaction
           .
        
         
           1
           Such
           a
           faith
           professed
           with
           the
           mouth
           ,
           which
           is
           confirmed
           by
           an
           innocent
           godly
           conversation
           in
           the
           life
           ,
           so
           as
           not
           to
           live
           in
           commission
           of
           any
           knowne
           sinne
           ,
           or
           omission
           of
           any
           knowne
           duty
           ,
           wee
           say
           this
           conversation
           makes
           faith
           appeare
           reall
           ,
           
             James
             2.
             18.
             
             Rev.
          
           22.
           14.
           wee
           conceive
           more
           is
           required
           to
           make
           a
           man
           appeare
           a
           fit
           member
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           then
           of
           a
           Common-wealth
           ,
           to
           bee
           onely
           
             bonus
             civis
          
           ,
           and
           bare
           civility
           is
           sufficient
           for
           this
           latter
           ,
           but
           not
           for
           the
           former
           ,
           and
           therefore
           such
           a
           profession
           of
           faith
           is
           needfull
           ,
           as
           is
           confirmed
           by
           a
           not
           onely
           a
           civill
           ,
           but
           a
           godly
           life
           .
        
         
           2
           Such
           a
           faith
           as
           is
           joyned
           with
           evident
           repentance
           ,
           and
           sorrow
           ,
           and
           mourning
           for
           sinne
           (
           although
           there
           bee
           no
           experience
           alwayes
           of
           such
           a
           holy
           life
           antecedently
           seene
           )
           for
           thus
           it
           was
           Act.
           2.
           37
           ,
           38.
           for
           the
           riches
           of
           Christs
           grace
           is
           such
           as
           not
           onely
           to
           receive
           experienced
           christians
           into
           his
           family
           and
           house
           ,
           but
           also
           the
           weakest
           and
           poorest
           (
           who
           may
           stand
           in
           most
           need
           of
           Christs
           Ordinances
           )
           and
           that
           as
           soone
           as
           ever
           they
           seeme
           to
           bee
           brought
           in
           ;
           and
           therefore
           experience
           of
           a
           blamelesse
           life
           is
           not
           alwayes
           necessary
           for
           admission
           into
           the
           Church
           :
           some
           think
           indeed
           that
           the
           Apostles
           received
           in
           the
           first
           converts
           ,
           (
           Act.
           2.
           39.
           
           )
           so
           soone
           ,
           because
           they
           had
           an
           extraordinary
           spirit
           of
           discerning
           ,
           but
           if
           they
           had
           so
           :
           yet
           they
           did
           not
           receive
           them
           in
           here
           according
           to
           that
           ,
           for
           they
           received
           divers
           hypocrites
           in
           ,
           as
           Ananias
           and
           Sapphira
           ,
           &c.
           and
           if
           all
           other
           of
           their
           acts
           in
           this
           chapter
           were
           exemplary
           ,
           why
           should
           this
           onely
           bee
           thought
           to
           be
           otherwise
           and
           extraordinary
           ?
        
         
           3
           When
           there
           is
           full
           and
           sufficient
           testimony
           from
           others
           of
           their
           faith
           and
           piety
           ,
           although
           their
           humiliation
           ,
           faith
           and
           conversation
           bee
           not
           so
           well
           knowne
           ,
           for
           wee
           see
           the
           Church
           received
           Paul
           ,
           when
           Barnabas
           had
           declared
           what
           God
           had
           done
           for
           him
           ;
           and
           if
           it
           may
           bee
           just
           to
           condemne
           another
           by
           the
           testimony
           of
           two
           faithfull
           witnesses
           ,
           it
           may
           not
           bee
           unchristian
           to
           receive
           an
           other
           into
           the
           fold
           of
           Christ
           (
           much
           more
           readily
           )
           upon
           the
           testimony
           of
           able
           and
           faithfull
           Christians
           ,
           especially
           then
           when
           they
           be
           not
           able
           openly
           ,
           and
           publiquely
           ro
           speake
           so
           fully
           for
           themselves
           ,
           and
           thus
           much
           for
           answer
           to
           the
           first
           question
        
         
           2
           Question
           ,
           Whether
           this
           profession
           is
           to
           bee
           judged
           by
           the
           Church
           .
        
         
         
           Answer
           ,
           1.
           
           The
           faithfull
           as
           they
           did
           at
           first
           combine
           into
           a
           Church
           ,
           so
           it
           is
           their
           duty
           to
           receive
           others
           to
           themselves
           ,
           as
           the
           Church
           did
           ,
           Acts
           9.
           26
           ,
           27.
           encouraged
           by
           Barnabas
           and
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           as
           the
           Apostle
           commands
           ,
           Rom.
           14.
           1.
           which
           although
           it
           was
           of
           fellow-members
           into
           their
           affections
           ,
           yet
           the
           proportion
           holds
           strong
           for
           receiving
           commers
           into
           the
           Church
           .
           
             Joh.
             Ep.
          
           3.
           8
           ,
           9
           ,
           10.
           
        
         
           2
           If
           they
           bee
           to
           receive
           them
           ,
           they
           must
           by
           some
           meanes
           know
           them
           ,
           to
           bee
           such
           as
           they
           may
           comfortably
           receive
           into
           their
           affections
           ,
           a
           little
           leaven
           leavening
           the
           whole
           lumpe
           .
           1
           Cor.
           5.
           
        
         
           3
           The
           Officers
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           (
           who
           are
           first
           privately
           to
           examine
           them
           )
           and
           prepare
           them
           for
           admission
           )
           are
           to
           shew
           the
           Church
           the
           rule
           on
           which
           the
           Church
           is
           to
           receive
           them
           ,
           and
           themselves
           are
           ready
           to
           admit
           them
           .
           Act.
           10.
           37.
           
           Can
           any
           forbid
           water
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           This
           rule
           was
           best
           seene
           by
           that
           publike
           profession
           before
           the
           whole
           Church
           ,
           and
           if
           no
           just
           exception
           bee
           made
           (
           as
           one
           should
           bee
           without
           conviction
           )
           they
           are
           to
           be
           admitted
           by
           the
           Officers
           with
           the
           consent
           of
           the
           members
           hereunto
           ,
           for
           if
           publike
           profession
           is
           needfull
           at
           least
           before
           the
           Church
           ,
           though
           not
           the
           world
           alway
           (
           as
           Didoclavius
           observes
           )
           to
           the
           entrance
           into
           the
           Covenant
           and
           Church
           by
           baptisme
           ;
           wee
           see
           no
           reason
           ,
           but
           persons
           formerly
           baptized
           ,
           and
           entering
           a
           new
           into
           the
           Church
           ,
           but
           they
           should
           openly
           professe
           their
           faith
           againe
           :
           the
           visible
           Church
           being
           built
           upon
           this
           rocke
           ,
           
             Matth.
             16.
             16
             ,
             18.
             viz.
          
           Profession
           of
           the
           faith
           of
           Christ
           ;
           and
           lastly
           ,
           if
           there
           should
           be
           no
           necessity
           for
           such
           a
           profession
           ,
           yet
           if
           this
           bee
           desired
           of
           the
           people
           of
           God
           ,
           for
           the
           increase
           of
           their
           owne
           joy
           to
           see
           God
           glorified
           ,
           and
           Christs
           name
           professed
           ,
           and
           his
           vertues
           held
           forth
           ,
           and
           for
           the
           increase
           of
           their
           love
           to
           those
           that
           joyne
           with
           them
           ,
           why
           should
           it
           not
           be
           done
           before
           Saints
           ,
           which
           should
           bee
           done
           before
           persecutors
           ?
           1
           Pet.
           3.
           15.
           
        
         
           What
           is
           now
           said
           ,
           we
           thinke
           sufficient
           to
           undermine
           what
           is
           opposed
           herein
           by
           others
           ,
           and
           may
           easily
           give
           answer
           to
           the
           three
           arguments
           of
           the
           learned
           Authour
           ,
           from
           the
           example
           of
           the
           Church
           of
           Israel
           ,
           
             John
             Baptist
          
           and
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           so
           cleare
           up
           our
           practise
           ,
           and
           judgement
           to
           the
           world
           from
           the
           aspersion
           of
           our
           
             rigidum
             examen
          
           for
           which
           we
           are
           by
           some
           condemned
           ,
           but
           for
           further
           clearing
           ,
           we
           shall
           answer
           to
           the
           particulars
           .
        
         
         
           Now
           to
           your
           Reasons
           more
           particularly
           against
           this
           from
           the
           Old
           Testament
           ,
           and
           the
           manner
           of
           entring
           and
           renewing
           Covenant
           then
           .
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           answer
           ,
           first
           ,
           when
           as
           you
           say
           ,
           they
           professing
           the
           Covenant
           promised
           to
           take
           God
           for
           their
           God
           ,
           to
           keepe
           the
           words
           of
           the
           Covenant
           and
           doe
           them
           ,
           to
           seek
           the
           Lord
           with
           all
           their
           hearts
           ,
           to
           walke
           before
           him
           in
           truth
           and
           uprightnes
           ,
           this
           implyeth
           a
           profession
           of
           a
           worke
           of
           grace
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           They
           did
           not
           immediately
           enter
           into
           Covenant
           ,
           but
           the
           Lord
           was
           long
           before
           preparing
           them
           for
           it
           ,
           for
           they
           were
           humbled
           much
           in
           Egypt
           ,
           in
           so
           much
           as
           their
           sighings
           came
           up
           to
           God
           ,
           Exod.
           2.
           23
           ,
           24
           ,
           25.
           
           They
           had
           seene
           the
           glory
           of
           God
           for
           their
           good
           against
           Pharaoh
           ,
           and
           all
           that
           Land
           ,
           by
           many
           miracles
           ,
           they
           had
           Gods
           visible
           presence
           in
           the
           Cloud
           ;
           were
           instructed
           by
           Moses
           concerning
           the
           Covenant
           of
           grace
           made
           with
           them
           in
           Abraham
           ;
           they
           were
           mightily
           delivered
           at
           the
           Red
           Sea
           ,
           so
           that
           they
           beleeved
           Moses
           and
           feared
           the
           Lord
           and
           sang
           his
           praise
           ,
           
             Exod.
             14.
             31.
             
             Psalme
          
           106.
           12.
           
           They
           were
           also
           instructed
           againe
           concerning
           the
           Covenant
           ,
           and
           were
           to
           sanctifie
           themselves
           three
           dayes
           legally
           ,
           (
           which
           was
           for
           spirituall
           ends
           ,
           and
           of
           spirituall
           use
           ,
           Exod.
           19.
           10.
           
           )
           and
           thus
           being
           prepared
           as
           fit
           matter
           for
           Covenant
           ,
           they
           then
           entered
           thereinto
           .
           And
           they
           were
           all
           of
           them
           (
           for
           ought
           we
           know
           )
           thus
           externally
           and
           ecclesiastically
           holy
           ,
           though
           many
           were
           internally
           stiffe-necked
           ,
           blind
           and
           prophane
           .
        
         
           And
           for
           our
           parts
           we
           desire
           no
           more
           then
           such
           a
           preparation
           in
           some
           worke
           of
           grace
           ,
           if
           appearing
           (
           though
           not
           indeed
           )
           reall
           as
           may
           make
           way
           for
           Church
           Covenant
           ,
           among
           a
           people
           now
           as
           we
           see
           was
           then
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           When
           John
           Baptist
           
             began
             to
             preach
             the
             Gospell
             ,
             and
             gather
             a
             new
             people
             for
             Christ
             ,
             he
             admitted
             none
             but
             upon
             confession
             of
             their
             sinnes
             ,
             but
             we
             read
             of
             no
             question
             that
             hee
             put
             forth
             to
             them
             to
             discover
             the
             worke
             of
             grace
             in
             their
             soules
             ,
             or
             repelled
             any
             upon
             that
             pretence
             that
             voluntarily
             submitted
             themselves
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Though
           the
           Scripture
           record
           such
           things
           very
           briefly
           ,
           (
           else
           the
           world
           would
           not
           have
           contained
           the
           Bookes
           that
           must
           have
           been
           written
           ,
           as
           John
           speaketh
           ,
           )
           yet
           he
           that
           advisedly
           considers
           the
           case
           ,
           may
           see
           the
           profession
           of
           a
           work
           of
           grace
           in
           all
           that
           were
           received
           by
           John
           to
           his
           baptisme
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           John
           was
           sent
           with
           the
           Spirit
           and
           power
           of
           Elias
           ,
           to
           turne
           the
           hearts
           of
           the
           fathers
           ,
           &c.
           to
           cast
           down
           every
           high
           hill
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
         
           Secondly
           ,
           His
           baptisme
           is
           called
           the
           baptisme
           of
           repentance
           ,
           for
           the
           remission
           of
           sinnes
           ,
           Mark.
           1.
           4.
           
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           confession
           of
           sins
           is
           ever
           put
           for
           true
           repentance
           ,
           when
           there
           is
           a
           promise
           of
           pardon
           made
           to
           it
           ,
           
             Prov.
             28.
             13.
             1
             
             John
          
           1.
           9.
           and
           therefore
           when
           he
           requires
           confession
           of
           sins
           ,
           was
           it
           without
           remorse
           or
           sorrow
           for
           it
           ?
           was
           it
           not
           with
           profession
           of
           faith
           in
           the
           Messiah
           ,
           which
           he
           pointed
           unto
           ,
           Joh.
           1.
           29.
           and
           required
           with
           repentance
           ,
           Act.
           19.
           4.
           
        
         
           Fourthly
           ,
           did
           not
           hee
           fall
           upon
           the
           Pharisees
           with
           dreadfull
           thundering
           of
           Gods
           judgements
           ,
           for
           comming
           to
           his
           baptisme
           without
           conversion
           of
           heart
           ,
           and
           fruits
           meet
           for
           repentance
           ?
           Mat.
           3.
           7.
           and
           this
           Luke
           saith
           ,
           hee
           preached
           to
           the
           multitude
           ,
           Luke
           3.
           7.
           and
           whether
           any
           were
           received
           that
           embraced
           not
           that
           Doctrine
           ,
           and
           shewed
           the
           same
           in
           their
           confession
           ,
           viz.
           that
           their
           hearts
           were
           humbled
           ,
           and
           that
           the
           renounced
           their
           high
           thoughts
           of
           their
           priviledges
           of
           the
           Law
           ,
           &c.
           and
           professed
           amendment
           &
           fruits
           meet
           for
           the
           same
           ,
           it
           will
           be
           hard
           for
           any
           to
           prove
           :
           and
           thus
           much
           is
           evident
           :
           on
           the
           contrary
           that
           Pharesees
           &
           Lawyers
           distinguished
           from
           the
           People
           and
           Publicans
           rejected
           the
           counsell
           of
           God
           in
           not
           being
           baptized
           of
           him
           ,
           and
           what
           counsell
           but
           that
           wholesome
           doctrine
           of
           
             John
             ,
             Luke
          
           7.
           29
           ,
           30
           ?
           Lay
           all
           these
           together
           ,
           and
           let
           any
           whose
           thoughts
           are
           not
           prepossessed
           with
           prejudice
           ,
           say
           ,
           whether
           this
           confession
           was
           not
           such
           a
           profession
           of
           faith
           and
           repentance
           ,
           which
           a
           discerning
           charity
           ought
           to
           take
           for
           a
           worke
           of
           grace
           .
        
         
           
             Repl●
             .
          
           
             It
             appeares
             many
             wayes
             that
             when
             the
             Apostles
             planted
             Churches
             ,
             
             they
             made
             a
             Covenant
             betweene
             God
             and
             the
             people
             whom
             they
             received
             .
             But
             they
             received
             men
             upon
             the
             profession
             of
             faith
             ,
             and
             promise
             of
             ●mendment
             of
             life
             ,
             without
             strict
             inquiry
             what
             worke
             of
             grace
             was
             wrought
             in
             the
             soule
             ,
             so
             in
             after
             ages
             ,
             &c.
             
             Now
             the
             profession
             at
             first
             required
             of
             all
             that
             were
             received
             to
             baptisme
             ,
             was
             that
             they
             beleeved
             in
             the
             Father
             ,
             Sonne
             and
             holy
             Ghost
             .
             This
             was
             the
             confession
             of
             the
             Eunuch
             ,
             when
             he
             was
             baptized
             :
             I
             beleeve
             that
             Jesus
             Christ
             is
             the
             Son
             of
             God.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           cannot
           but
           observe
           how
           still
           the
           evidence
           of
           the
           truth
           of
           what
           wee
           proved
           in
           the
           third
           and
           fourth
           positions
           ,
           breakes
           out
           at
           every
           turne
           ,
           when
           the
           heat
           of
           that
           disputation
           doth
           not
           hinder
           ,
           for
           if
           the
           Apostles
           planted
           Churches
           and
           made
           a
           Covenant
           betweene
           God
           and
           the
           people
           when
           they
           baptized
           them
           ,
           as
           the
           proofes
           for
           this
           Act.
           2.
           38.
           and
           8.
           37.
           and
           19.
           17
           ,
           18
           ,
           19.
           alledged
           in
           the
           margent
           shew
           ,
           then
           still
           it
           appeares
           they
           admitted
           men
           into
           planted
           Churches
           when
           they
           baptized
           them
           ,
           and
           the
           ●efore
           the
           Apostles
           ordinary
           and
           first
           leading
           practise
           and
           examples
           
           are
           for
           those
           Position
           ,
           not
           against
           them
           .
        
         
           2
           You
           grant
           here
           that
           Acts
           2.
           and
           8.
           and
           19.
           there
           was
           a
           profession
           of
           faith
           and
           promise
           of
           amendment
           of
           life
           ,
           and
           so
           wee
           must
           suppose
           though
           not
           expressed
           ,
           for
           how
           else
           could
           the
           Apostles
           distinguish
           such
           as
           gladly
           received
           the
           word
           ,
           from
           the
           mockers
           and
           others
           ?
        
         
           Now
           let
           us
           consider
           what
           kinde
           of
           profession
           this
           must
           bee
           by
           the
           story
           it selfe
           .
           The
           Apostle
           Peter
           in
           his
           doctrine
           presseth
           three
           things
           .
           1.
           
           Conversion
           or
           repentance
           for
           their
           sinnes
           :
           2.
           
           Faith
           in
           Christ
           in
           those
           words
           ,
           
             Bee
             baptized
             in
             the
             Name
             of
             the
             Lord
             Jesus
             Christ
             ,
          
           Verse
           38.
           3.
           
           With
           many
           other
           words
           he
           exhorted
           them
           ,
           saying
           ,
           
             Save
             your selves
             from
             this
             untoward
             generation
             ,
          
           that
           is
           ,
           this
           was
           the
           scope
           of
           and
           substance
           of
           his
           exhortation
           ,
           which
           includes
           a
           gathering
           themselves
           to
           the
           Church
           .
           Now
           the
           Text
           saith
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           the
           first
           ,
           
             That
             they
             were
             pricked
             to
             the
             heart
             ,
             and
             cryed
             out
             Men
             ,
             and
             Brethren
             what
             shall
             wee
             doe
             ?
          
           2.
           
           They
           gladly
           received
           the
           word
           ,
           that
           is
           of
           faith
           in
           Christ
           ,
           and
           the
           duty
           of
           obedience
           to
           the
           Gospell
           ,
           and
           how
           did
           all
           this
           appeare
           ,
           but
           by
           their
           profession
           ?
           and
           what
           kinde
           of
           confession
           can
           any
           man
           think
           such
           soules
           would
           make
           ,
           but
           a
           broken
           hearted
           gracious
           confession
           ,
           which
           to
           any
           discerning
           charity
           must
           be
           taken
           to
           argue
           a
           worke
           of
           grace
           ?
           so
           that
           the
           very
           character
           given
           of
           them
           by
           the
           holy
           Ghost
           ,
           in
           so
           briefe
           an
           History
           ,
           doth
           cleerely
           evince
           what
           we
           contend
           for
           .
        
         
           Consider
           also
           the
           story
           ,
           Acts.
           8.
           and
           first
           ,
           not
           to
           passe
           over
           what
           is
           said
           of
           
             Simon
             Magus
          
           ,
           of
           whom
           it
           is
           said
           ,
           
             Hee
             beleeved
             ,
             was
             baptized
             ,
             continued
             with
             Philip
             ,
             and
             wondered
             ,
          
           so
           that
           no
           doubt
           they
           took
           him
           for
           a
           true
           beleever
           ,
           but
           when
           Peter
           discovered
           his
           falsnesse
           ,
           see
           what
           hee
           saith
           ,
           Verse
           21.
           
           
             Thou
             hast
             no
             part
             nor
             lot
             in
             this
             matter
             ,
          
           and
           the
           reason
           is
           ,
           
             For
             thy
             heart
             is
             not
             right
             in
             the
             sight
             of
             God.
          
           Let
           any
           here
           consider
           ,
           that
           if
           hee
           had
           no
           part
           nor
           lot
           in
           Christ
           and
           baptisme
           ,
           &c.
           because
           not
           right
           ,
           whether
           the
           Apostle
           Peter
           or
           the
           Church
           would
           have
           received
           him
           ,
           if
           such
           had
           been
           discovered
           before
           .
        
         
           And
           for
           the
           
             Eunuch
             ,
             Philip
          
           requiring
           his
           profession
           of
           faith
           ▪
           If
           thou
           beleevest
           with
           all
           thy
           heart
           ,
           looked
           for
           a
           sound
           ▪
           worke
           of
           grace
           ,
           and
           though
           it
           was
           delivered
           in
           those
           words
           which
           are
           the
           Fundamentall
           truth
           ,
           
             That
             Jesus
             is
             the
             Sonne
             of
             God
             ,
          
           yet
           it
           includes
           true
           faith
           in
           him
           for
           salvation
           :
           as
           we
           see
           our
           Saviour
           Christ
           takes
           that
           confession
           of
           Peter
           for
           true
           faith
           ,
           
             Flesh
             and
             ●lood
             have
             not
             revealed
             this
             to
             thee
             ,
             but
             my
             Father
             :
          
           and
           promised
           
           
             to
             build
             the
             Church
             on
             this
             rocke
             ,
             Matth.
          
           16.
           
           Yea
           it
           includes
           subjection
           unto
           him
           as
           the
           Sonne
           of
           God
           ,
           the
           Prophet
           and
           King
           of
           his
           Church
           ,
           and
           this
           is
           no
           rare
           ,
           but
           a
           common
           thing
           in
           the
           New
           Testament
           ,
           by
           one
           fundamentall
           truth
           ,
           beleeved
           and
           confessed
           ,
           to
           include
           true
           faith
           and
           profession
           of
           the
           whole
           truth
           that
           suites
           with
           that
           foundation
           ,
           as
           Rom.
           10.
           9.
           so
           expounded
           ,
           Verse
           10
           ,
           11.
           as
           being
           more
           then
           historicall
           faith
           ,
           so
           1
           John
           4.
           1
           ,
           2.
           and
           5.
           1.
           
        
         
           The
           like
           characters
           of
           a
           penitent
           and
           gracious
           carriage
           and
           confession
           may
           be
           observed
           ,
           Act.
           19.
           17
           ,
           18
           ,
           19.
           
        
         
           And
           seeing
           you
           have
           given
           us
           this
           occasion
           to
           lay
           downe
           some
           grounds
           of
           our
           practise
           from
           the
           first
           patternes
           ,
           we
           shall
           add
           a
           word
           or
           two
           to
           take
           away
           the
           conceit
           of
           novelty
           ,
           which
           is
           imputed
           to
           us
           in
           this
           point
           as
           much
           as
           in
           any
           thing
           else
           .
           Tertullian
           saith
           in
           his
           booke
           of
           prescriptions
           ,
           
             Wee
             admit
             no
             man
             to
             any
             disputation
             about
             divine
             things
             ,
             unlesse
             hee
             first
             have
             shewed
             us
             of
             whom
             he
             received
             the
             faith
             and
             became
             a
             Christian
             ;
             and
             secondly
             ,
             whether
             hee
             admit
             and
             hold
             the
             generall
             principles
             ,
             wherein
             all
             Christians
             doe
             and
             ever
             did
             agree
             ,
             otherwise
             proscribing
             against
             him
             as
             an
             alien
             from
             the
             Common-wealth
             of
             Israel
             .
          
           And
           if
           in
           those
           times
           they
           were
           so
           strict
           in
           admitting
           men
           to
           disputations
           ,
           no
           doubt
           much
           more
           in
           receiving
           men
           to
           Church
           Communion
           .
           But
           if
           this
           seeme
           not
           full
           enough
           ,
           take
           another
           :
           in
           the
           Churches
           of
           old
           ,
           there
           were
           Catechumeni
           ,
           instructed
           for
           enterance
           into
           the
           Church
           by
           baptisme
           ,
           with
           whom
           they
           tooke
           much
           paines
           in
           sanctifying
           them
           ,
           before
           ;
           by
           fasting
           and
           prayer
           ,
           and
           often
           preaching
           to
           them
           .
           And
           for
           their
           admission
           ,
           there
           were
           foure
           things
           in
           use
           among
           them
           ,
           1.
           
           
             Nominis
             professio
             ,
             2.
             
             Scrutinium
             ,
             3.
             
             Abrenuntiatio
             ,
             4.
             
             Fidei
             professio
             .
          
           Their
           Scrutinium
           which
           they
           call
           
             Examen
             competentium
          
           ,
           or
           the
           examination
           of
           such
           as
           were
           competent
           ,
           or
           fitting
           for
           admission
           ,
           This
           Examen
           was
           very
           strict
           as
           is
           observed
           out
           of
           Alcuinus
           ,
           by
           learned
           *
           
           
             Chamier
             ,
             Fiant
             scrutinia
             ,
             ut
             explorentur
             saepius
             ,
             an
             post
             renuntiationum
             Satanae
             ,
             sacra
             verba
             datae
             fidei
             radicitus
             corde
             defixerint
             ,
             i.
             e.
          
           Let
           examinations
           be
           made
           ,
           that
           it
           oft
           may
           bee
           tryed
           ,
           whether
           they
           have
           deeply
           fixed
           in
           the
           heart
           the
           sacred
           words
           of
           their
           professed
           faith
           .
           And
           what
           ever
           any
           may
           thinke
           of
           the
           strictnesse
           of
           that
           their
           discipline
           ,
           in
           this
           point
           Chamier
           gives
           a
           large
           testimony
           ,
           by
           way
           of
           approbation
           of
           the
           same
           ,
           whose
           words
           upon
           it
           are
           these
           ,
           
             Certe
             nemo
             improbare
             potest
             ,
             seriam
             in
             tam
             sanctis
             rebus
             diligentiam
             ,
             ne
             quantum
          
           
           
             fieri
             poterit
             lateant
             Simones
             ,
             &c.
             i.
          
           Certainely
           no
           man
           can
           disallow
           such
           serious
           diligence
           ,
           to
           prevent
           profanation
           of
           sacred
           things
           ,
           lest
           (
           so
           farre
           as
           it
           is
           possible
           )
           such
           as
           
             Simon
             Magus
          
           may
           lye
           hid
           :
           And
           saith
           hee
           ,
           the
           Apostles
           went
           before
           in
           their
           examples
           ,
           for
           
             Philip
             ,
             Acts
          
           8.
           being
           demanded
           of
           the
           Eunuch
           ,
           
             What
             hinders
             mee
             that
             I
             may
             not
             bee
             baptized
             ?
          
           hee
           answereth
           not
           simply
           thou
           mayst
           ,
           but
           with
           this
           supposition
           added
           ,
           if
           thou
           beleevest
           with
           thy
           whole
           heart
           .
           Now
           this
           profession
           of
           their
           faith
           was
           either
           by
           reciting
           the
           Creed
           in
           an
           eminent
           place
           before
           all
           the
           people
           ,
           and
           that
           
             praeclarâ
             ●iduciâ
          
           ,
           with
           full
           affiance
           ,
           as
           hee
           observes
           out
           of
           Clement
           and
           Augustine
           ,
           or
           else
           
             respondendo
             interroganti
             Sacerdoti
             per
             singula
             in
             subsidium
             forte
             pudoris
             aut
             memoriae
             ,
             i.
             e.
          
           By
           answering
           to
           the
           Minister
           propounding
           questions
           ,
           concerning
           their
           faith
           for
           helpe
           of
           their
           bashfulnesse
           ,
           or
           want
           of
           memory
           .
        
         
           Also
           Beza
           in
           his
           Epist
           .
           14.
           
           Commending
           much
           the
           severity
           and
           zeale
           of
           former
           Pastors
           and
           Churches
           in
           this
           kind
           ,
           and
           bemoaning
           the
           negligence
           of
           such
           as
           followed
           ,
           from
           whence
           hee
           saith
           it
           is
           ,
           that
           the
           Church
           without
           a
           miracle
           could
           not
           rise
           out
           of
           its
           filth
           ,
           he
           concludes
           thus
           ,
           
             Itaque
             frustra
             disputabitur
             tum
             voce
             tum
             scriptis
             ,
             nisi
             conversione
             cordium
             &
             
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
               〈◊〉
            
             initium
             instaurationis
             sumatur
             .
          
        
         
           Reverend
           Mr.
           Hildersam
           in
           his
           treatise
           of
           the
           doctrine
           of
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           ,
           to
           that
           question
           ,
           whether
           the
           people
           that
           come
           to
           the
           Lords
           Table
           ,
           bee
           bound
           to
           make
           knowne
           their
           knowledge
           and
           spirituall
           estate
           to
           their
           Pastor
           .
           Answers
           thus
           ,
           yes
           verily
           ,
           for
           seeing
           ,
           
             Matth.
             3.
             6.
             
             Acts
          
           8.
           37.
           
           God
           required
           of
           them
           ,
           that
           (
           being
           of
           yeares
           of
           discretion
           )
           were
           to
           bee
           baptized
           ,
           that
           they
           should
           make
           knowne
           to
           the
           Congregation
           or
           their
           Minister
           their
           ,
           faith
           and
           repentance
           ,
           hee
           doth
           every
           whit
           as
           much
           require
           this
           of
           them
           that
           are
           to
           come
           to
           the
           Lords
           Supper
           .
           Whereby
           we
           see
           ,
           1.
           that
           his
           judgement
           was
           that
           ,
           Act.
           8.
           and
           Mat.
           3.
           the
           people
           did
           make
           known
           their
           spirituall
           estate
           to
           the
           congregation
           or
           Minister
           ,
           when
           they
           professed
           faith
           and
           repentance
           :
           and
           secondly
           ,
           that
           the
           same
           ought
           now
           so
           to
           bee
           .
           Lastly
           ,
           We
           may
           appeale
           herein
           to
           the
           consciences
           of
           very
           many
           godly
           Ministers
           ,
           in
           our
           deare
           England
           ,
           whether
           they
           groane
           not
           under
           the
           mixture
           of
           the
           precious
           with
           the
           vile
           ,
           in
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           Christ
           ,
           and
           would
           not
           gladly
           have
           it
           otherwise
           ,
           which
           cannot
           bee
           without
           such
           a
           way
           of
           admissions
           into
           the
           Church
           as
           we
           plead
           
           for
           ,
           or
           else
           in
           constituted
           (
           but
           corrupted
           )
           Churches
           ,
           by
           casting
           out
           such
           as
           after
           admonitions
           appeare
           impenitent
           in
           sin
           ,
           by
           the
           severity
           of
           discipline
           .
        
         
           And
           this
           was
           evident
           by
           the
           qualifications
           of
           persons
           to
           be
           received
           to
           the
           Lords
           Table
           ,
           voted
           at
           first
           by
           the
           present
           Reverend
           Assembly
           ,
           and
           presented
           in
           their
           Directory
           to
           the
           Parliament
           ,
           if
           wee
           bee
           not
           mis-informed
           :
           whose
           words
           are
           these
           ,
           
             None
             are
             to
             bee
             admitted
             thereto
             (
             meaning
             the
             Lord
             Suppers
             )
             but
             such
             as
             being
             baptized
             are
             found
             upon
             carefull
             examination
             by
             the
             Minister
             ,
             before
             the
             other
             Church-Officers
             ,
             to
             have
             a
             competent
             measure
             of
             knowledge
             and
             ability
             to
             examine
             themselves
             ,
             and
             professe
             their
             willingnesse
             to
             submit
             thewselves
             to
             all
             the
             Ordinances
             of
             Christ
             ,
             and
             are
             of
             approved
             conversation
             according
             to
             Christ
             :
             the
             ignorant
             and
             scandalous
             are
             not
             to
             bee
             admitted
             ,
             nor
             those
             of
             another
             Congregation
             ,
             unlesse
             they
             have
             sufficient
             testimony
             or
             be
             very
             well
             knowne
             .
          
        
         
           If
           it
           bee
           objected
           ,
           that
           some
           of
           these
           instances
           concerne
           unbaptized
           persons
           onely
           ,
           which
           is
           not
           our
           case
           ;
           Answ
           .
           1.
           
           Multitude
           of
           baptized
           persons
           in
           these
           dayes
           are
           as
           ignorant
           and
           prophane
           as
           some
           unbaptized
           ;
           and
           therefore
           as
           apt
           to
           pollute
           Gods
           Ordinances
           :
           2.
           
           Chamiers
           reason
           ,
           why
           unbaptized
           persons
           were
           to
           go
           under
           such
           strict
           examination
           ,
           holds
           good
           in
           our
           case
           .
           3.
           
           Such
           profession
           of
           faith
           was
           required
           by
           John
           and
           the
           Apostles
           of
           those
           that
           were
           Church
           members
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Creed
             is
             honored
             by
             the
             Ancients
             with
             glorious
             titles
             ,
             as
             the
             rule
             of
             faith
             ,
             &c.
             by
             which
             they
             understood
             that
             rule
             of
             faith
             given
             by
             Christ
             ,
             when
             hee
             was
             about
             to
             ascend
             ,
             and
             commanded
             his
             Disciples
             ,
             saying
             ,
             Goe
             teach
             al
             Nations
             .
             In
             after
             times
             some
             Articles
             were
             added
             for
             explanation
             ,
             to
             meet
             with
             the
             heresies
             of
             those
             times
             ,
             but
             for
             substance
             ,
             the
             Church
             never
             required
             other
             acknowledgement
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           you
           meane
           that
           which
           is
           called
           the
           Apostles
           Creed
           ,
           it
           is
           justly
           doubted
           whether
           it
           bee
           so
           ancient
           ,
           however
           ,
           the
           times
           which
           followed
           the
           Scripture
           patterns
           ,
           are
           both
           obscure
           to
           us
           ,
           and
           no
           infallible
           pattern
           ,
           yet
           many
           Churches
           used
           great
           strictnesse
           ,
           as
           is
           shewed
           ,
           in
           receiving
           and
           restoring
           fallen
           members
           ,
           and
           if
           afterward
           heresies
           gave
           just
           occasion
           to
           require
           further
           professions
           of
           the
           doctrine
           of
           faith
           ,
           and
           to
           add
           more
           articles
           for
           explanation
           ,
           why
           may
           not
           the
           Churches
           require
           a
           more
           explicate
           confession
           of
           the
           work
           of
           faith
           and
           repentance
           ,
           the
           formality
           and
           meere
           outside
           profession
           of
           so
           many
           Civilists
           ,
           Formalists
           ,
           and
           Atheists
           requiring
           the
           same
           ?
        
         
         
           
             Reply
             ▪
          
           
             If
             you
             put
             men
             to
             declare
             that
             worke
             of
             grace
             God
             hath
             wrought
             in
             this
             or
             that
             way
             ,
             which
             perhaps
             is
             not
             determined
             by
             the
             word
             of
             grace
             ,
             at
             least
             not
             agreed
             upon
             amongst
             your selves
             ,
             wee
             beseech
             you
             to
             consider
             by
             what
             authority
             you
             doe
             it
             ,
             and
             upon
             what
             ground
             you
             stand
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           is
           but
           upon
           a
           supposition
           ,
           if
           so
           &c.
           which
           is
           contrary
           to
           our
           judgement
           ,
           and
           professed
           practise
           to
           limit
           the
           spirit
           of
           grace
           in
           the
           workings
           of
           it
           .
           If
           any
           have
           so
           done
           ,
           (
           as
           it
           may
           bee
           in
           the
           times
           of
           opinions
           prevailing
           among
           us
           )
           wee
           doe
           not
           owne
           it
           ,
           but
           disapprove
           the
           same
           .
           It
           is
           enough
           for
           us
           to
           see
           any
           have
           some
           way
           ,
           or
           by
           some
           meanes
           or
           other
           beene
           humbled
           for
           sinne
           ,
           brought
           home
           to
           Christ
           by
           faith
           ,
           or
           have
           any
           breathings
           of
           the
           Spirit
           of
           Christ
           ,
           with
           a
           life
           answerable
           to
           the
           Faith
           of
           Christ
           .
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           XVI
           .
        
         
           
             Position
             7.
             
          
           
             That
             a
             Minister
             is
             so
             a
             Minister
             of
             a
             particular
             Congregation
             ,
             that
             if
             they
             dislike
             him
             or
             leave
             him
             unjustly
             ,
             hee
             ceaseth
             to
             be
             a
             Minister
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             question
             is
             of
             Ministers
             unjustly
             forsaken
             or
             driven
             from
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             your
             answer
             is
             for
             most
             part
             of
             Ministers
             ,
             set
             aside
             or
             deprived
             by
             their
             owne
             default
             :
             wee
             never
             purposed
             to
             speake
             one
             word
             for
             an
             unworthy
             Minister
             ,
             whom
             Christ
             hath
             put
             out
             of
             Office
             ,
             and
             therefore
             your
             labour
             to
             prove
             that
             such
             justly
             rejected
             by
             the
             the
             Church
             ,
             are
             no
             longer
             Ministers
             ,
             might
             well
             have
             beene
             saved
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           The
           ground
           of
           this
           Position
           being
           about
           the
           Nature
           of
           a
           Ministers
           Office
           ;
           Whether
           it
           consist
           in
           his
           Office
           ,
           relation
           to
           the
           flocke
           of
           a
           particular
           Church
           :
           the
           former
           part
           of
           our
           answer
           was
           not
           in
           vaine
           ,
           nor
           the
           grounds
           impertinent
           ,
           and
           wee
           accept
           your
           grant
           of
           it
           ,
           That
           a
           Minister
           justly
           rejected
           by
           his
           Church
           is
           no
           longer
           a
           Minister
           :
           then
           wee
           inferre
           that
           there
           is
           no
           indelible
           character
           in
           the
           Office
           ,
           but
           that
           his
           Ministery
           stands
           in
           relation
           to
           a
           particular
           flocke
           ,
           not
           to
           the
           Catholike
           Church
           ,
           for
           then
           a
           particular
           Church
           could
           not
           dissolve
           his
           Office
           ,
           and
           therefore
           it
           will
           follow
           ,
           that
           (
           if
           hee
           bee
           found
           worthy
           after
           )
           upon
           repentance
           to
           bee
           called
           to
           another
           Church
           ,
           hee
           must
           bee
           
           new
           elected
           and
           ordained
           to
           his
           Office
           ,
           being
           no
           Minister
           upon
           his
           just
           deposing
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             But
             wee
             will
             examine
             your
             conclusions
             upon
             which
             you
             build
             the
             sentence
             which
             you
             passe
             against
             them
             ;
             first
             it
             is
             certaine
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           What
           is
           said
           to
           the
           first
           is
           spoken
           before
           ,
           and
           we
           will
           not
           repeat
           things
           in
           vaine
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           Secondly
           ,
           
             The
             power
             of
             feeding
             ,
             which
             the
             Minister
             hath
             ,
             is
             neither
             confined
             to
             one
             society
             onely
             ,
             nor
             nextly
             derived
             to
             him
             from
             Christ
             by
             the
             Church
             .
             The
             Office
             and
             authority
             of
             a
             Pastour
             is
             immediately
             from
             Christ
             ,
             the
             deputation
             of
             the
             person
             which
             Christ
             hath
             designed
             is
             from
             the
             Church
             ministerially
             ,
             but
             neither
             vertually
             nor
             formally
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           These
           things
           about
           the
           call
           of
           a
           Minister
           by
           the
           Church
           were
           also
           spoken
           to
           before
           ,
           when
           wee
           spake
           of
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Keys
           ,
           and
           the
           first
           subject
           thereof
           ,
           and
           therefore
           the
           assertion
           being
           granted
           ,
           these
           things
           might
           well
           be
           spared
           ,
           but
           what
           we
           finde
           here
           more
           then
           in
           the
           other
           place
           ,
           we
           shall
           consider
           .
        
         
           The
           power
           of
           the
           Church
           in
           electing
           her
           Officers
           is
           so
           cleare
           in
           the
           Scripture
           ,
           and
           so
           confessed
           a
           truth
           by
           the
           godly
           learned
           ,
           that
           it
           cannot
           bee
           denyed
           ,
           yet
           here
           seeme
           to
           be
           given
           so
           many
           restrictions
           in
           the
           case
           ,
           that
           they
           much
           abate
           and
           weaken
           this
           great
           and
           precious
           liberty
           and
           power
           given
           by
           the
           Lord.
           1.
           
           That
           the
           power
           and
           Office
           of
           a
           Pastor
           is
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           by
           his
           institution
           is
           granted
           ,
           but
           the
           question
           is
           ,
           how
           this
           man
           comes
           to
           have
           this
           Office
           applyed
           to
           him
           ;
           if
           immediately
           ,
           then
           hee
           is
           in
           this
           an
           Apostle
           ,
           if
           mediately
           ,
           it
           is
           by
           the
           Church
           ,
           or
           else
           shew
           by
           whom
           2.
           
           That
           the
           Church
           choose
           Ministerially
           ,
           and
           ought
           to
           choose
           whom
           Christ
           hath
           described
           in
           his
           word
           ,
           and
           fitted
           with
           gifts
           ,
           and
           so
           farre
           designed
           by
           Christ
           wee
           grant
           ,
           but
           what
           if
           there
           bee
           twenty
           such
           ?
           Which
           of
           them
           doth
           Christ
           designe
           ,
           but
           whom
           the
           Church
           freely
           choose
           ?
           and
           therefore
           that
           is
           no
           diminution
           of
           their
           power
           ,
           that
           they
           must
           choose
           ministerially
           ,
           and
           whom
           Christ
           so
           designes
           .
           The
           case
           is
           alike
           in
           all
           other
           Ordinances
           dispensed
           ,
           Examination
           is
           immediately
           from
           Christ
           ,
           by
           his
           institution
           ,
           the
           person
           to
           be
           censured
           is
           designed
           or
           described
           by
           ▪
           Christ
           ,
           a
           notorious
           or
           obstinate
           sinner
           :
           the
           Church
           passe
           this
           sentence
           onely
           Ministerially
           ,
           and
           yet
           puts
           forth
           a
           great
           power
           of
           the
           Lord
           Jesus
           Christ
           ,
           in
           applying
           the
           sentence
           to
           this
           or
           that
           person
           :
           and
           so
           here
           ▪
           and
           therefore
           it
           is
           strange
           to
           us
           ,
           that
           any
           should
           say
           they
           depute
           this
           Officer
           neither
           vertually
           nor
           formally
           ,
           when
           
           as
           the
           act
           which
           they
           put
           forth
           ,
           (
           which
           is
           the
           outward
           call
           of
           the
           Officer
           )
           must
           needs
           come
           from
           a
           power
           formally
           in
           the
           Church
           to
           doe
           the
           same
           ,
           as
           well
           as
           when
           the
           Church
           or
           Officers
           censure
           an
           offender
           ,
           &c.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             consent
             of
             the
             people
             is
             requisite
             in
             the
             election
             of
             Pastors
             and
             Teachers
             ,
             we
             grant
             ,
             the
             direction
             of
             the
             Elders
             going
             before
             ,
             or
             along
             with
             them
             ,
             Acts
             1.
             
             Peter
             declared
             what
             an
             one
             should
             be
             taken
             ,
             &c.
             Acts
             6.
             
             Deacons
             were
             chosen
             by
             the
             consent
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             &c.
             but
             in
             this
             election
             the
             people
             did
             first
             choose
             ,
             when
             most
             commonly
             the
             Apostles
             instructed
             the
             people
             ,
             and
             went
             before
             them
             in
             the
             electon
             ,
             and
             they
             consented
             .
             Act.
             14.
             23.
             
             The
             Apostles
             by
             consent
             choose
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           This
           restriction
           of
           the
           peoples
           power
           to
           an
           after
           consent
           ,
           at
           least
           ordinarily
           ,
           will
           not
           hold
           :
           if
           the
           evident
           light
           of
           Acts
           6.
           could
           not
           be
           denyed
           ,
           and
           the
           other
           places
           were
           more
           obscure
           ,
           why
           should
           not
           that
           place
           with
           its
           light
           cleare
           the
           rest
           ?
           but
           that
           in
           Act.
           1.
           is
           as
           evident
           ,
           Peter
           proves
           the
           need
           of
           such
           a
           choice
           to
           be
           made
           ,
           shews
           it
           must
           bee
           one
           that
           had
           so
           long
           conversed
           with
           Christ
           ,
           to
           witnesse
           such
           things
           ,
           and
           further
           hee
           doth
           not
           lead
           them
           ,
           there
           might
           be
           twenty
           such
           ,
           but
           they
           choose
           two
           ,
           as
           a
           preparative
           act
           to
           Apostleship
           ,
           Vers
           .
           23.
           and
           who
           were
           they
           ,
           but
           such
           as
           they
           speake
           unto
           ,
           viz.
           the
           Disciples
           ,
           Vers
           .
           15.
           whom
           he
           cals
           Men
           and
           Brethren
           ,
           Vers
           .
           16.
           so
           Act.
           14.
           23.
           lifting
           up
           of
           hands
           is
           the
           signe
           of
           election
           ,
           not
           of
           an
           after
           consent
           .
        
         
           Lastly
           ,
           by
           this
           Doctrine
           how
           shall
           the
           Church
           come
           by
           Officers
           ,
           when
           shee
           hath
           none
           to
           goe
           before
           her
           in
           choosing
           for
           her
           ?
           must
           shee
           loose
           her
           right
           ,
           or
           take
           whom
           others
           will
           choose
           for
           her
           ,
           and
           impose
           upon
           her
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             primitive
             times
             ,
             after
             the
             Apostles
             ,
             one
             Church
             might
             elect
             a
             Pastor
             for
             another
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           If
           by
           way
           of
           counsell
           one
           Church
           shall
           propound
           and
           advise
           another
           to
           choose
           such
           ,
           (
           leaving
           them
           free
           to
           take
           or
           refuse
           )
           this
           is
           lawfull
           in
           case
           ,
           but
           otherwise
           it
           is
           a
           plaine
           usurpation
           and
           we
           must
           leave
           Scripture
           rules
           and
           patterns
           to
           justifie
           it
           .
        
         
           2
           Wee
           grant
           in
           a
           safe
           sense
           there
           may
           be
           
             Communis
             electio
          
           ,
           whereby
           a
           fit
           man
           is
           propounded
           by
           Churches
           or
           Ministers
           to
           be
           chosen
           by
           another
           people
           ,
           and
           thus
           the
           Philadelphians
           might
           elect
           a
           fit
           Pastor
           for
           the
           Church
           at
           Antioch
           ,
           (
           as
           Ignatius
           exhots
           )
           with
           sundry
           like
           instances
           in
           the
           first
           times
           after
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           and
           this
           wee
           deny
           not
           may
           lawfully
           bee
           now
           .
           But
           this
           is
           nothing
           to
           that
           
             electio
             singularis
          
           ,
           whereby
           a
           people
           choose
           one
           to
           be
           their
           
           Minister
           ,
           of
           which
           we
           speake
           ,
           for
           it
           is
           evident
           from
           the
           Testimony
           of
           Cyprian
           oft
           alledged
           ,
           that
           it
           is
           in
           the
           power
           of
           the
           people
           to
           choose
           worthy
           Ministers
           ,
           and
           reject
           the
           unworthy
           ;
           and
           Ambrose
           thinkes
           that
           he
           is
           worthily
           thought
           to
           bee
           elected
           
             divino
             judicio
          
           ,
           whom
           all
           the
           people
           desire
           ▪
           
             Ambros
             .
             lib.
             10.
             
             Ep.
          
           82.
           
        
         
           It
           is
           very
           true
           ,
           that
           as
           the
           times
           grew
           worse
           ,
           the
           elections
           were
           oft
           disturbed
           ,
           sometimes
           by
           the
           Clergy
           choosing
           without
           the
           people
           ,
           (
           of
           which
           Athanasius
           complaines
           )
           sometimes
           by
           the
           peoples
           carrying
           it
           tumultuously
           :
           sometime
           the
           Emperors
           interposing
           .
        
         
           But
           this
           and
           like
           corruptions
           cannot
           forfeit
           the
           liberty
           of
           the
           Church
           which
           Christ
           hath
           given
           it
           ,
           and
           therefore
           hee
           that
           was
           no
           great
           friend
           to
           the
           peoples
           liberties
           ,
           yet
           ingenuously
           saith
           that
           although
           the
           people
           is
           
             Bellua
             multorum
             capitum
          
           ,
           and
           most
           apt
           to
           be
           tumultuous
           ,
           yet
           this
           is
           not
           innated
           to
           a
           beleeving
           people
           ,
           
             qui
             non
             minus
             nunc
             quam
             olim
             gravis
             esset
             in
             electionibus
             ,
             ac
             publicae
             utilitatis
             studiosissima
             ,
             Spalta
             ▪
             de
             Rep.
             Eccles
             .
             Lib.
             3.
             
             Cap.
          
           3.
           
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             here
             it
             be
             questioned
             ,
             whether
             your
             election
             of
             the
             people
             be
             essentiall
             to
             the
             calling
             of
             a
             Minister
             ,
             wee
             answer
             ,
          
           First
           ,
           
             A
             thing
             is
             essentiall
             two
             wayes
             ,
             either
             as
             absolutely
             necessary
             ,
             so
             as
             the
             thing
             can
             have
             no
             existence
             without
             it
             ;
             or
             necessary
             to
             the
             integrity
             of
             a
             thing
             ,
             so
             that
             it
             is
             maymed
             without
             it
             .
             Againe
             the
             people
             be
             either
             few
             in
             number
             ,
             and
             simple
             ,
             unable
             to
             judge
             of
             the
             sufficiency
             of
             a
             Minister
             ,
             or
             they
             be
             more
             in
             number
             ,
             increased
             in
             wisedome
             ,
             sound
             in
             faith
             ,
             and
             able
             to
             discerne
             of
             things
             that
             differ
             .
             In
             the
             first
             sense
             the
             election
             of
             the
             people
             is
             not
             necessary
             or
             essentiall
             ,
             in
             the
             second
             ,
             his
             calling
             in
             that
             respect
             is
             maymed
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           It
           is
           to
           bee
           noted
           ,
           that
           here
           wee
           dispute
           of
           the
           outward
           calling
           of
           Church-Officers
           ;
           now
           the
           very
           essence
           of
           any
           outward
           calling
           ,
           doth
           lye
           in
           the
           right
           and
           power
           of
           them
           that
           elect
           .
           If
           all
           the
           Countries
           of
           England
           should
           elect
           or
           call
           a
           Lord
           Major
           for
           London
           ,
           bee
           they
           never
           so
           many
           and
           wise
           ,
           it
           is
           a
           meere
           nullity
           ,
           and
           why
           ?
           Because
           the
           right
           of
           election
           is
           not
           in
           them
           ,
           but
           if
           the
           Citizens
           in
           whom
           the
           right
           lyes
           ,
           doe
           elect
           (
           though
           weakly
           )
           hee
           hath
           the
           true
           essence
           of
           the
           call
           :
           if
           others
           electing
           a
           Major
           the
           City
           will
           receive
           him
           ,
           submit
           to
           him
           ,
           and
           so
           give
           their
           consent
           ,
           hee
           may
           bee
           said
           to
           have
           the
           substance
           of
           that
           call
           ,
           though
           not
           an
           orderly
           and
           lawfull
           election
           ,
           and
           so
           maymed
           :
           so
           it
           is
           here
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           if
           in
           our
           election
           of
           the
           people
           (
           being
           the
           Scripture
           
           way
           of
           election
           ,
           )
           the
           proper
           right
           and
           power
           bee
           seated
           by
           Christ
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           unto
           whom
           they
           are
           to
           minister
           ,
           then
           it
           must
           needs
           follow
           ,
           that
           the
           very
           essence
           of
           a
           Ministers
           call
           stands
           in
           their
           election
           ,
           or
           at
           least
           in
           their
           after
           consent
           and
           subjection
           to
           his
           Ministery
           ,
           in
           which
           case
           wee
           grant
           though
           the
           calling
           be
           maymed
           ,
           yet
           it
           hath
           the
           substance
           of
           a
           true
           calling
           .
           But
           if
           the
           people
           will
           not
           receive
           such
           as
           are
           imposed
           upon
           them
           ,
           hee
           hath
           no
           call
           at
           all
           ,
           but
           usurpes
           the
           same
           ,
           and
           it
           is
           a
           meer
           nullity
           .
           And
           therefore
           it
           concernes
           Churches
           the
           more
           to
           consider
           ,
           what
           they
           doe
           in
           receiving
           and
           submitting
           to
           such
           unworthy
           Ministers
           ,
           as
           are
           oft
           imposed
           upon
           them
           ;
           but
           if
           the
           right
           and
           power
           of
           electing
           Ministers
           bee
           in
           any
           other
           Persons
           ,
           let
           it
           be
           shewed
           from
           the
           Scriptures
           ,
           for
           we
           are
           not
           much
           moved
           in
           such
           cases
           with
           the
           corrupt
           customes
           of
           after-times
           .
        
         
           And
           this
           also
           shewes
           what
           kinde
           of
           call
           such
           men
           have
           that
           are
           ordained
           by
           Prelates
           at
           large
           without
           any
           election
           at
           all
           ,
           if
           they
           be
           Ministers
           to
           the
           Catholike
           Church
           ,
           then
           the
           Catholike
           Church
           is
           bound
           to
           receive
           them
           ,
           and
           submit
           to
           their
           Office
           ,
           but
           no
           part
           of
           the
           Catholike
           Church
           ,
           and
           therefore
           not
           the
           whole
           is
           bound
           to
           submit
           to
           them
           ,
           and
           therefore
           indeed
           they
           have
           no
           office
           nor
           calling
           as
           Pastors
           or
           Teachers
           ,
           except
           it
           can
           be
           proved
           they
           be
           Evangelists
           ,
           Apostles
           or
           Prophets
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             people
             be
             few
             and
             simple
             ,
             they
             stand
             in
             more
             need
             of
             guidance
             from
             their
             owne
             Elders
             and
             other
             Churches
             ;
             If
             many
             and
             full
             of
             wisdome
             ,
             their
             liberty
             to
             choose
             is
             the
             greater
             ,
             and
             the
             greater
             wrong
             to
             bee
             deprived
             of
             it
             .
             The
             practise
             of
             the
             Apostles
             and
             Primitive
             Churches
             shew
             this
             for
             many
             ages
             ,
             sometime
             men
             were
             propounded
             to
             the
             Church
             to
             be
             chosen
             ,
             sometimes
             the
             chiefe
             left
             wholly
             to
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           1
           What
           is
           all
           this
           to
           the
           purpose
           ,
           what
           light
           or
           derection
           a
           Church
           need
           to
           receive
           ?
           the
           essence
           of
           a
           Ministers
           call
           lyes
           not
           in
           the
           propounding
           or
           advising
           of
           any
           to
           elect
           him
           ,
           but
           in
           the
           Election
           of
           such
           as
           have
           the
           true
           right
           so
           to
           doe
           ,
           which
           is
           still
           in
           the
           Church
           ,
           though
           few
           and
           weake
           ,
           if
           a
           true
           Church
           ,
           and
           yet
           you
           produce
           not
           one
           Scripture
           example
           of
           any
           Officer
           propounded
           by
           the
           Apostles
           ,
           or
           Elders
           to
           the
           Church
           to
           be
           chosen
           by
           them
           ,
           much
           lesse
           limiting
           the
           Church
           to
           consent
           thereto
           ,
           if
           they
           had
           nothing
           against
           him
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             In
             reason
             this
             is
             evident
             ,
             for
             the
             Childs
             consent
             is
             required
             in
             marriage
             ,
             but
             the
             more
             able
             he
             is
             to
             choose
             for
             himselfe
             ,
             the
             more
             liberty
             may
             Parents
             grant
             ,
             the
             lesse
             able
             the
             more
             watchfull
             must
             they
             be
             .
          
        
         
         
           This
           similitude
           utterly
           faileth
           in
           two
           essentiall
           things
           ,
           that
           concerne
           the
           case
           for
           which
           it
           is
           applyed
           .
           1.
           
           Because
           a
           childe
           is
           under
           the
           authority
           of
           the
           parents
           ,
           whose
           right
           is
           such
           that
           a
           Childe
           cannot
           lawfully
           choose
           without
           them
           .
           But
           there
           is
           no
           Church
           or
           others
           have
           such
           a
           right
           and
           authority
           over
           any
           Church
           in
           their
           choice
           of
           Officers
           .
           2.
           
           Whatsoever
           the
           power
           of
           parents
           bee
           ,
           yet
           the
           essence
           of
           the
           marriage
           consists
           in
           the
           mutuall
           consent
           and
           promise
           of
           the
           children
           that
           marry
           ,
           and
           so
           here
           the
           essence
           of
           a
           Ministers
           call
           must
           lye
           in
           the
           election
           of
           the
           Church
           and
           acceptance
           of
           the
           Minister
           which
           is
           not
           avoided
           but
           by
           the
           similitude
           confirmed
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             a
             duty
             of
             neighbour
             Churches
             to
             lend
             their
             helpe
             to
             their
             brethren
             in
             election
             of
             their
             Ministers
             ,
             when
             the
             Scripture
             willeth
             us
             to
             exhort
             one
             another
             or
             admon●sh
             one
             another
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             onely
             a
             command
             to
             every
             singular
             person
             towards
             his
             fellow
             ,
             but
             also
             to
             any
             whole
             company
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           all
           this
           ,
           and
           that
           it
           is
           the
           duty
           of
           a
           Church
           ,
           bee
           it
           weake
           or
           strong
           ,
           to
           take
           all
           needfull
           counsell
           ,
           advise
           or
           exhortations
           and
           admonitions
           in
           so
           weighty
           a
           worke
           .
           But
           if
           Churches
           or
           others
           shall
           impose
           upon
           any
           Church
           any
           Officer
           without
           their
           choice
           ,
           this
           is
           no
           brotherly
           helpe
           ,
           but
           unjust
           usurpation
           .
           And
           if
           you
           understand
           Junius
           so
           ,
           as
           that
           
             Charitatis
             jure
             &
             Communione
             sanctorum
          
           ,
           one
           Church
           have
           power
           to
           choose
           for
           another
           ,
           other
           wayes
           ,
           then
           by
           advising
           them
           to
           elect
           such
           an
           one
           for
           themselves
           ,
           wee
           see
           no
           reason
           for
           that
           ,
           nor
           doe
           wee
           thinke
           it
           is
           his
           meaning
           :
           neither
           doth
           
             Paul
             ,
             Rom.
          
           12.
           12.
           lay
           any
           foundation
           of
           such
           usurpations
           ,
           but
           onely
           of
           mutuall
           brotherly
           helpfulnesse
           by
           counsell
           ,
           &c.
           and
           the
           contrary
           is
           not
           Policy
           ,
           but
           some
           degree
           of
           tyranny
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             It
             is
             a
             blemish
             in
             the
             call
             of
             a
             Minister
             ,
             if
             either
             the
             people
             be
             not
             fit
             to
             choose
             ,
             or
             being
             fit
             they
             he
             shut
             out
             from
             the
             choice
             ,
             but
             this
             maime
             doth
             not
             make
             a
             nullity
             in
             his
             calling
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           If
           a
           people
           or
           Church
           bee
           never
           so
           weake
           ,
           which
           is
           here
           called
           unfitnesse
           ,
           yet
           Christ
           being
           amongst
           them
           ,
           and
           they
           making
           an
           orderly
           and
           good
           choice
           ,
           there
           can
           be
           no
           blemish
           in
           the
           call
           seeing
           the
           right
           is
           them
           ,
           and
           such
           a
           free
           choice
           will
           better
           stablish
           the
           conscience
           of
           any
           godly
           Minister
           in
           his
           call
           ,
           then
           if
           a
           Synod
           of
           the
           ablest
           Ministers
           should
           impose
           him
           without
           their
           free
           choice
           ,
           except
           it
           can
           bee
           proved
           that
           the
           right
           of
           election
           is
           in
           the
           Synod
           ,
           which
           we
           thinke
           will
           not
           bee
           done
           .
           But
           bee
           they
           able
           or
           weake
           ,
           if
           the
           people
           be
           shut
           out
           ,
           it
           must
           needs
           make
           a
           great
           maim
           in
           his
           call
           ,
           
           and
           if
           they
           doe
           not
           consent
           nor
           submit
           to
           such
           a
           one
           called
           by
           others
           ,
           it
           will
           make
           it
           a
           nullity
           ,
           as
           was
           shewed
           before
           .
           What
           authority
           hath
           hee
           to
           Minister
           to
           any
           Church
           ,
           if
           they
           will
           refuse
           him
           ?
           or
           who
           shall
           censure
           them
           for
           refusing
           ,
           by
           any
           rule
           of
           Christ
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             saving
             truth
             of
             God
             and
             a
             lawfull
             Ministery
             are
             both
             essentiall
             to
             a
             true
             Church
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Answ
           .
           What
           then
           becomes
           of
           the
           Church
           when
           the
           Minister
           is
           dead
           ?
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             true
             Church
             hath
             continued
             by
             the
             blessing
             of
             God
             where
             the
             election
             of
             Ministers
             hath
             beene
             given
             away
             by
             the
             people
             or
             taken
             from
             them
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           True
           ;
           but
           it
           hath
           been
           continued
           by
           the
           after
           consent
           ,
           and
           subjection
           of
           the
           people
           to
           their
           Ministers
           chosen
           by
           others
           ,
           else
           they
           must
           needs
           have
           broken
           a
           pieces
           and
           dissolved
           the
           Church
           ,
           or
           taken
           upon
           them
           to
           choose
           others
           to
           themselves
           ,
           which
           still
           shewes
           that
           the
           essence
           of
           the
           call
           is
           in
           the
           people
           .
           What
           is
           said
           of
           the
           disorders
           of
           Ancient
           Churches
           in
           elections
           ,
           we
           passe
           over
           as
           nothing
           to
           this
           purpose
           .
           That
           the
           Ministery
           might
           bee
           lawfull
           for
           substance
           ,
           where
           there
           were
           many
           defects
           in
           the
           manner
           of
           the
           call
           we
           grant
           ,
           the
           Church
           at
           length
           consenting
           to
           submit
           thereto
           ,
           in
           whom
           the
           true
           right
           is
           placed
           by
           Christ
           :
           and
           therefore
           we
           passe
           over
           what
           followes
           to
           that
           purpose
           ,
           though
           wee
           might
           object
           against
           some
           passages
           in
           the
           discourse
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             As
             for
             the
             second
             branch
             of
             your
             answer
             we
             know
             not
             well
             your
             meaning
             ;
             if
             this
             be
             your
             minde
             ,
             that
             a
             Minister
             lawfully
             called
             and
             set
             over
             the
             Congregation
             ,
             is
             to
             bee
             esteemed
             a
             Minister
             in
             the
             usuall
             Church
             ,
             as
             the
             particular
             Church
             hath
             unity
             with
             ,
             and
             is
             part
             of
             the
             universall
             or
             Catholique
             ,
             and
             as
             a
             party
             baptized
             is
             not
             baptized
             into
             that
             Congregation
             onely
             ,
             but
             into
             all
             Churches
             ,
             and
             that
             the
             Ministery
             is
             one
             ,
          
           cujus
           a
           singulis
           in
           solidum
           pars
           tenetur
           ,
           as
           Cyprian
           
             speaketh
             ,
             and
             therefore
             though
             the
             Minister
             be
             unjustly
             cast
             eff
             by
             one
             Congregation
             ,
             yet
             hee
             is
             not
             to
             be
             esteemed
             as
             no
             Minister
             ,
             wee
             freely
             consent
             ▪
             But
             if
             your
             meaning
             bee
             ,
             that
             hee
             is
             onely
             by
             right
             a
             Minister
             of
             that
             particular
             Congregation
             ,
             because
             unjustly
             deposed
             ,
             as
             formerly
             in
             the
             execution
             of
             his
             Office
             ,
             ●ee
             was
             a
             Minister
             to
             them
             onely
             ,
             and
             to
             no
             other
             society
             whatsoever
             ,
             or
             in
             what
             respect
             soever
             ▪
             your
             opinion
             is
             contrary
             to
             the
             opinion
             of
             the
             universall
             ,
             and
             tends
             to
             destroy
             the
             unity
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             and
             that
             Communion
             which
             the
             Churches
             of
             God
             ought
             to
             have
             one
             with
             another
             .
          
        
         
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           First
           ,
           If
           our
           meaning
           be
           doubtfull
           ,
           seeing
           these
           expressions
           doe
           not
           well
           suite
           our
           notion
           ,
           nor
           fully
           enter
           into
           our
           understanding
           ,
           we
           shall
           give
           the
           meaning
           of
           our
           answer
           distinctly
           ,
           and
           then
           consider
           what
           is
           here
           said
           .
        
         
           First
           ,
           there
           is
           a
           difference
           betweene
           the
           unjust
           leaving
           or
           casting
           off
           a
           Minister
           ,
           without
           all
           orderly
           proceedings
           against
           him
           ,
           and
           the
           unjust
           deposing
           him
           in
           an
           orderly
           way
           of
           Church
           censure
           :
           if
           the
           question
           be
           taken
           in
           the
           first
           sense
           ,
           he
           remaines
           every
           way
           and
           in
           every
           respect
           by
           right
           a
           Minister
           as
           hee
           was
           before
           ,
           except
           he
           reject
           them
           ,
           and
           so
           dissolve
           the
           relation
           that
           was
           between
           them
           .
           But
           if
           the
           question
           speak
           of
           an
           orderly
           censure
           of
           deposition
           unjustly
           ,
           then
           we
           judge
           of
           that
           case
           as
           we
           would
           do
           in
           any
           other
           ,
           censure
           of
           a
           member
           by
           excommunication
           ,
           &
           therefore
           we
           say
           ,
           he
           is
           stil
           a
           Minister
           ,
           
             in
             foro
             interno
          
           before
           Christ
           ,
           for
           
             clavis
             errans
             non
             ligat
          
           .
           Secondly
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           that
           Church
           he
           hath
           stil
           right
           truly
           to
           minister
           to
           them
           ,
           and
           is
           their
           Minister
           though
           unjustly
           hindered
           in
           the
           execution
           of
           his
           Ministery
           ,
           as
           a
           member
           unjustly
           censured
           hath
           a
           true
           right
           to
           the
           Ordinances
           ,
           and
           membership
           ,
           though
           unjustly
           hindred
           from
           the
           same
           ,
           though
           
             in
             foro
             externo
          
           ,
           we
           grant
           to
           them
           or
           in
           their
           account
           he
           is
           no
           Minister
           ,
           as
           a
           person
           excommunicated
           is
           to
           them
           no
           member
           .
        
         
           Thirdly
           ,
           in
           respect
           of
           other
           Churches
           ,
           if
           it
           doth
           appeare
           unto
           them
           that
           hee
           is
           unjustly
           deposed
           ,
           they
           may
           and
           ought
           to
           esteeme
           him
           still
           ,
           and
           receive
           him
           and
           have
           communion
           with
           him
           ,
           as
           a
           true
           Minister
           of
           Jesus
           Christ
           ,
           in
           the
           Church
           he
           doth
           belong
           to
           ,
           as
           they
           may
           do
           with
           a
           member
           unjustly
           cast
           out
           ,
           but
           til
           that
           appeare
           unto
           them
           ,
           they
           cannot
           so
           esteem
           and
           honor
           him
           ,
           (
           being
           orderly
           deposed
           but
           must
           at
           least
           suspend
           their
           judgment
           til
           the
           case
           be
           cleared
           .
        
         
           Fourthly
           we
           answer
           clearely
           and
           plainely
           to
           the
           chiefe
           scope
           of
           the
           question
           ,
           If
           a
           Minister
           bee
           unjustly
           deposed
           or
           forsaken
           by
           his
           particular
           Church
           ,
           and
           he
           also
           withall
           renounce
           and
           forsake
           them
           ,
           so
           farre
           as
           all
           Office
           and
           relation
           betweene
           them
           cease
           ,
           then
           is
           hee
           no
           longer
           an
           Officer
           or
           Pastour
           in
           any
           Church
           of
           God
           ,
           whatsoever
           you
           will
           call
           it
           .
           And
           the
           Reason
           is
           ,
           because
           a
           Ministers
           office
           in
           the
           Church
           i●
           no
           indelible
           Character
           ,
           but
           consists
           in
           his
           relation
           to
           the
           flocke
           :
           and
           if
           a
           Minister
           once
           ordained
           ,
           his
           relation
           ceasing
           ,
           his
           Office
           of
           a
           Minister
           ,
           Steward
           of
           the
           mysteries
           of
           God
           shall
           still
           remaine
           ;
           why
           should
           not
           a
           ruling
           Elder
           or
           Deacon
           remaine
           an
           Elder
           or
           Deacon
           in
           the
           Church
           as
           well
           ?
           all
           are
           Officers
           Ordained
           of
           Christ
           alike
           given
           to
           his
           Church
           ,
           Officers
           
           chosen
           and
           Ordained
           by
           laying
           on
           of
           hands
           alike
           ,
           but
           wee
           suppose
           you
           will
           not
           say
           a
           Deacon
           in
           such
           a
           case
           should
           remaine
           a
           Deacon
           in
           the
           Catholique
           Church
           ,
           therefore
           not
           a
           Minister
           .
        
         
           Secondly
           ,
           wee
           shall
           now
           consider
           what
           is
           here
           said
           ,
           and
           first
           this
           language
           of
           a
           Minister
           in
           the
           usuall
           Church
           as
           a
           particular
           Church
           hath
           union
           with
           and
           is
           a
           part
           of
           the
           universall
           ,
           it
           is
           an
           unusuall
           expression
           to
           us
           ,
           and
           to
           the
           Scripture
           phrase
           ,
           and
           therefore
           beare
           with
           us
           if
           wee
           fall
           short
           of
           your
           meaning
           ;
           the
           usuall
           Church
           in
           England
           hath
           beene
           either
           the
           Arch-Deacons
           Church
           in
           the
           Deanaries
           ,
           or
           Diocesan
           in
           the
           Bishoprick
           ,
           or
           Provinciall
           or
           Nationall
           ,
           but
           wee
           hope
           that
           there
           is
           no
           such
           intended
           here
           ,
           yet
           to
           all
           this
           and
           the
           jurisdiction
           thereof
           particular
           Churches
           have
           been
           subject
           as
           parts
           there
           .
        
         
           But
           if
           by
           usuall
           Church
           you
           meane
           a
           Classical
           ,
           Provinciall
           or
           Nationall
           Church
           ,
           wee
           must
           intreat
           better
           grounds
           for
           any
           of
           these
           ,
           and
           therefore
           wee
           must
           confesse
           our
           minde
           and
           meaning
           is
           not
           so
           ,
           that
           wee
           looke
           at
           a
           Minister
           of
           a
           particular
           Church
           in
           any
           such
           relation
           to
           the
           usuall
           and
           intermediate
           Church
           betweene
           it
           and
           the
           Catholique
           .
           The
           second
           sense
           therefore
           we
           owne
           and
           acknowledge
           as
           before
           .
           But
           whether
           this
           be
           contrary
           to
           the
           judgement
           and
           practise
           of
           the
           universall
           Church
           ,
           wee
           know
           not
           ;
           because
           it
           is
           hard
           for
           us
           know
           what
           the
           universall
           Church
           judgeth
           ,
           except
           we
           could
           heare
           it
           speake
           or
           see
           its
           practise
           ;
           if
           the
           onely
           head
           Prophet
           and
           Shepherd
           of
           the
           Church
           Jesus
           Christ
           be
           fit
           to
           declare
           her
           judgement
           ,
           we
           will
           be
           tryed
           thereby
           ,
           who
           we
           know
           hath
           s●t
           Elders
           in
           every
           particular
           Church
           ,
           Act.
           14.
           23.
           to
           watch
           over
           their
           particular
           flock
           ,
           Act.
           20.
           28.
           but
           not
           over
           any
           other
           Church
           that
           wee
           can
           finde
           .
           Neither
           doth
           this
           destroy
           the
           unity
           or
           Communion
           of
           the
           Catholique
           Church
           ,
           nor
           of
           particular
           Churches
           one
           with
           another
           as
           is
           said
           ,
           for
           Churches
           may
           enjoy
           brotherly
           Communion
           one
           with
           another
           ,
           without
           such
           stated
           formes
           ,
           under
           the
           power
           and
           authority
           of
           one
           another
           ,
           as
           hath
           been
           shewed
           before
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             For
             if
             he
             be
             not
             a
             Minister
             to
             other
             Churches
             ,
             then
             are
             not
             the
             Churches
             of
             God
             one
             ,
             nor
             the
             Communion
             which
             they
             have
             together
             on
             ▪
             n●r
             the
             Ministers
             one
             ,
             nor
             the
             ●●●cke
             which
             they
             feed
             one
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           In
           what
           sense
           is
           intended
           to
           have
           the
           Ministers
           one
           ,
           and
           flocke
           one
           ,
           we
           doe
           not
           see
           .
           If
           you
           meane
           one
           by
           one
           visible
           Government
           over
           the
           Catholique
           Church
           ,
           wherein
           there
           is
           a
           subordination
           of
           Churches
           and
           Ministers
           ,
           you
           must
           at
           last
           rise
           to
           Oecomenicall
           
           Pastor
           ,
           or
           Councell
           ,
           that
           must
           be
           the
           supreme
           ,
           which
           can
           scarce
           ever
           be
           had
           .
           If
           you
           meane
           an
           unity
           by
           brotherly
           Communion
           in
           offices
           of
           love
           and
           mutuall
           helpefulnesse
           of
           Churches
           and
           Ministers
           ,
           without
           usurpation
           ,
           such
           an
           unity
           and
           Community
           is
           not
           destroyed
           ,
           and
           the
           argument
           doth
           not
           follow
           ▪
           Cannot
           many
           distinct
           societies
           ot
           Townes
           or
           Corporations
           make
           up
           one
           County
           ,
           except
           the
           Major
           or
           Constable
           in
           one
           Towne
           be
           a
           Major
           or
           Constable
           in
           others
           also
           ?
           By
           this
           Reason
           the
           Deacon
           of
           one
           Church
           is
           the
           Deacon
           of
           all
           ,
           or
           else
           the
           unity
           is
           destroyed
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             If
             the
             Pastor
             derive
             all
             his
             authority
             from
             the
             Church
             ,
             when
             the
             Church
             hath
             set
             him
             aside
             ,
             what
             right
             hath
             he
             to
             administer
             among
             that
             people
             ?
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           True
           ,
           but
           we
           say
           he
           derives
           all
           his
           authority
           from
           Christ
           ,
           by
           the
           Church
           indeed
           ,
           applying
           that
           office
           to
           him
           ,
           to
           which
           the
           authority
           is
           annexed
           by
           the
           institution
           of
           Christ
           ,
           hence
           being
           the
           Minister
           of
           Christ
           unto
           them
           ,
           if
           they
           without
           Christ
           depose
           him
           ,
           they
           hinder
           the
           exercise
           of
           his
           Office
           ,
           but
           his
           right
           remaines
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             As
             they
             give
             right
             to
             an
             unworthy
             man
             to
             minister
             amongst
             them
             ,
             if
             they
             cal
             him
             unjustly
             ,
             so
             they
             take
             right
             from
             the
             worthy
             ,
             if
             they
             unjustly
             depose
             him
             .
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           We
           grant
           there
           is
           a
           parity
           
             in
             foro
             externo
          
           ,
           but
           as
           in
           the
           call
           ,
           his
           outward
           cal
           consists
           in
           the
           election
           of
           the
           calling
           ,
           and
           the
           acceptation
           of
           the
           called
           ,
           to
           compleat
           his
           power
           of
           administration
           .
           Now
           this
           by
           Christ
           in
           his
           Church
           may
           be
           destroyed
           in
           a
           just
           censure
           without
           his
           consent
           ,
           but
           cannot
           unjustly
           be
           wrung
           from
           him
           without
           his
           consent
           ,
           &
           therefore
           he
           may
           hold
           his
           right
           ,
           till
           either
           hee
           be
           justly
           deposed
           or
           willingly
           relinquish
           the
           same
           upon
           their
           injurious
           interruption
           of
           the
           use
           of
           his
           right
           .
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             And
             whereas
             you
             say
             the
             Minister
             is
             for
             the
             Ministery
             ,
             and
             the
             Office
             for
             the
             execution
             ,
             and
             so
             the
             Pastor
             and
             the
             flocke
             are
             relatives
             ,
             and
             therefore
             ,
             if
             their
             election
             gave
             him
             authority
             among
             them
             to
             feed
             ,
             their
             casting
             him
             off
             hath
             stripped
             him
             of
             the
             same
             power
             they
             gave
             him
             .
          
        
         
           
             A●su
             .
          
           Wee
           grant
           it
           is
           so
           ,
           yet
           the
           execution
           may
           bee
           unjustly
           hindred
           ,
           though
           the
           right
           and
           Office
           remaine
           :
           But
           we
           may
           well
           retort
           this
           argument
           upon
           the
           Minister
           of
           the
           usuall
           or
           Catholicke
           Church
           .
           Thus
           if
           the
           Minister
           bee
           for
           the
           Ministery
           ,
           and
           the
           Office
           for
           the
           execution
           ,
           and
           so
           the
           Pastor
           and
           flock
           be
           relatives
           ,
           then
           hee
           that
           may
           justly
           for
           ever
           be
           hindred
           of
           all
           execution
           of
           the
           Ministery
           and
           hath
           no
           power
           to
           censure
           his
           flock
           ,
           or
           cannot
           so
           much
           as
           justly
           approve
           and
           admonish
           them
           for
           the
           same
           ,
           surely
           hee
           hath
           a
           poore
           Office
           and
           Ministery
           ,
           but
           such
           a
           Minister
           that
           hath
           no
           particular
           Congregation
           ,
           that
           is
           his
           flock
           under
           his
           charge
           ,
           may
           justly
           
           be
           excluded
           out
           of
           all
           Churches
           ,
           and
           cannot
           censure
           or
           reprove
           his
           Catholique
           or
           usuall
           Church
           for
           the
           same
           ,
           therefore
           he
           is
           indeed
           no
           Minister
           ,
           and
           and
           hath
           no
           Office
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           God.
           
        
      
       
         
           CHAP.
           XVII
           .
        
         
           
             Position
             8.
             
          
           
             THat
             one
             Minister
             cannot
             performe
             any
             Ministeriall
             act
             in
             another
             Congregation
             .
          
        
         
           
             Reply
             .
          
           
             The
             Preaching
             of
             the
             Word
             and
             publique
             Prayer
             in
             the
             Congregation
             ,
             meet
             together
             solemnely
             to
             worship
             God
             ,
             &c.
             are
             properly
             Ministeriall
             ,
             &c.
             
          
        
         
           
             Answ
             .
          
           Concerning
           our
           true
           sense
           and
           meaning
           in
           our
           answer
           to
           this
           Position
           wee
           have
           spoken
           in
           the
           second
           consideration
           of
           the
           second
           and
           third
           Positions
           ,
           to
           which
           wee
           referre
           the
           Reader
           ,
           onely
           here
           wee
           must
           ingenuously
           confesse
           that
           our
           expression
           ,
           That
           a
           Minister
           exercising
           in
           another
           Church
           ,
           doth
           it
           not
           by
           vertue
           of
           any
           calling
           ,
           but
           onely
           by
           his
           gifts
           ,
           is
           not
           so
           cleare
           ,
           but
           may
           occasion
           stumbling
           ,
           yet
           the
           the
           next
           words
           following
           doe
           fully
           expresse
           our
           mindes
           ,
           viz.
           that
           he
           doth
           not
           put
           forth
           such
           a
           Ministeriall
           act
           of
           authority
           and
           power
           in
           dispensing
           of
           Gods
           Ordinances
           ,
           as
           a
           Minister
           doth
           performe
           to
           that
           Church
           ,
           whereunto
           hee
           is
           called
           to
           be
           a
           Minister
           ,
           for
           so
           hee
           doth
           not
           performe
           any
           Ministeriall
           act
           with
           that
           authority
           :
           hee
           doth
           to
           his
           owne
           which
           further
           cleares
           up
           our
           expression
           in
           the
           second
           consideration
           ,
           viz.
           that
           he
           is
           a
           Pastor
           of
           none
           but
           his
           proper
           flocke
           ,
           although
           some
           acts
           of
           his
           Office
           may
           extend
           beyond
           his
           owne
           flocke
           ,
           as
           we
           have
           shewed
           before
           ;
           and
           therefore
           in
           this
           sense
           we
           may
           still
           conclude
           ,
           that
           if
           the
           question
           be
           put
           to
           any
           Minister
           (
           so
           exercising
           in
           another
           church
           )
           which
           was
           once
           put
           to
           our
           Saviour
           ,
           
             By
             what
             authority
             dost
             thou
             these
             things
             ?
          
           let
           him
           study
           how
           to
           give
           an
           answer
           ,
           for
           wee
           have
           not
           yet
           learned
           it
           from
           this
           Reply
           .
           We
           confesse
           there
           are
           some
           godly
           learned
           servants
           of
           Christ
           ,
           who
           possibly
           may
           bee
           otherwise
           minded
           ,
           and
           thinke
           that
           a
           Minister
           preaching
           in
           another
           Congregation
           ,
           doth
           it
           onely
           as
           a
           gifted
           man
           ;
           as
           the
           Refuter
           of
           Doctor
           Downam
           (
           with
           others
           in
           former
           times
           of
           Reformation
           )
           beleeved
           also
           .
           But
           we
           desire
           that
           if
           any
           difference
           appeare
           herein
           ,
           it
           may
           bee
           no
           prejudice
           to
           the
           same
           cause
           for
           substance
           wee
           maintaine
           ,
           if
           by
           sundry
           lines
           wee
           all
           meet
           at
           last
           in
           the
           same
           point
           .
        
      
       
         FINIS
         .
      
    
     
       
         Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
         
           Notes for div A93091-e190
           
             Vid
             .
             Pe●
             .
             Mart.
             Loc.
             Com.
             de
             Excom
             .
          
           
             Brins
             :
             Watch
             ,
             part
             3.
             cap.
             10.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e1430
           
             Jun.
             lib.
             1.
             paral
             .
             6.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e1700
           
             G.
             Apol.
             cap.
             7.
             
             Q.
             2.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e2680
           
             Ibid.
             p.
             138.
             
          
           
             Peter
             Martyr
             in
             1
             Kings
             12.
             verse
             31.
             
          
           
             Pe●
             .
             Mart.
             Com.
             L●c
             de
             Idol
             in
             praec
             .
             l.
             1.
             
          
           
             Iohn
             2
             ,
             15
             ,
             16.
             
          
           
             Conc.
             Miliv
             .
             Can.
             12.
             
          
           
             Tertull.
             Apol.
             cap.
             30.
             
          
           
             Vid.
             Chemnit
             .
             Ex.
             de
             Innoc.
             Sanctorum
             .
          
           
             Vid.
             
               Birth
               of
               Heresies
               ,
               out
               of
            
             Elasopolitans
             Comment
             .
          
           
             Pet.
             Mart.
             loc
             .
             com
             .
             de
             Idol
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e6760
           
             Whit.
             de
             Eccle.
             
          
           
             1
             Cor.
             15.
             47●
             
          
           
             Vid.
             Brightm
             .
             An.
             in
             Loc.
             
          
           
             Cypr.
             lib.
             3.
             
             Epist
             .
             13.
             
             Cypr.
             lib.
             4.
             
             Epist
             .
             7.
             
          
           
             *
             Right
             of
             Presbyt
             .
             pag.
             482.
             
          
           
             Page
             22.
             
          
           
             Page
             68.
             
          
           
             Tertul.
             lib.
             4.
             
             Com.
             Mar.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e12460
           
             *
             Calvin
             Epist
             .
             332.
             
          
           
             Chamier
             de
             Euchar
             .
             cap.
             13.
             
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e20920
           
             Pe●
             Mart.
             de
             Excom
             .
             Lo●
             .
             Com.
             
          
           
             *
             Officiall
             .
          
        
         
           Notes for div A93091-e22090
           
             L●b
             .
             1.
             ●ap
             .
             6.
             7
             
          
           
             Rev.
             2.
             2
             and
             3.
             9.
             
          
           
             
             Acts
             ●●8
             .
             ●
             .
             37.
             19.
             
             ●7
             ,
             ●●
             ,
             ●9
             ▪
             
          
           
             Cham.
             de
             Bap.
             lib.
             5.
             cap.
             15.