the principal controversies between the litteral presbyters of the kirk of scotland, and the illuminated members of the church of christ, called quakers· truly collected, stated and opened, in a particular reply (herein specified) for general information and undeceiving the deceived. by an earnest contender for the most holy faith, which was once delivered to the saints. g. w. whitehead, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the principal controversies between the litteral presbyters of the kirk of scotland, and the illuminated members of the church of christ, called quakers· truly collected, stated and opened, in a particular reply (herein specified) for general information and undeceiving the deceived. by an earnest contender for the most holy faith, which was once delivered to the saints. g. w. whitehead, george, ?- . [i.e. ], [ ] p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year, . g.w. = george whitehead. place of publication from wing. caption title on p. reads: the principal controversies bewteen the litteral professors of the kirk of scotland, and the illuminated members of the church of christ, called quakers, &c. running title reads: the priests principles, answered. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of scotland -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the principal controversies between the litteral presbyters of the kirk of scotland , and the illuminated members of the church of christ , called quakers . truly collected , stated and opened , in a particular reply ( herein specified ) for general information and undeceiving the deceived . by an earnest contender for the most holy faith , which was once delivered to the saints . g. w. tim. . . avoiding prophane and vain babling and oppositions of science , falsly so called . pet. . . but these as natural bruit beasts , — speak evil of the things they understand not , &c. vers. . sporting themselves with their own deceivings . vers. . having eyes full of adultery , and that cannot cease from sin . — printed in the year , . a brief introduction . reader , herein is asserted the real sufficiency of divine illumination and inspiration , together with the doctrine of the saints perfection in christ , and his universal light and grace to mankind ; and thereby the real use and end of the holy scriptures made known , and the pretious truths therein owned and vindicated , from the gross errours , perversions , absurdities , reproaches , manifest confusions and contradictions of some rigid presbyters of scotland , to whom this tract containes a brief reply ( in many short paragraphs ) which was thus occasioned . viz. some of the presbyterian priests or teachers in scotland , having some years ago writ a great bundle against us , the people of god , called quakers , in a way of slighting and deriding some things of truth , which above ten years ago i wrote , in answer to a paper ( containing a pretended answer to queries of geo. fox's , junior ) with some queries written by one edw. jamison , in whose name , ( with two more ) the said bundle , against us , was conveyed in manuscript to divers hands ( as a pretended answer to mine ) which providentially after a long time was brought to my hands about four years ago , which then i perused , and collected the principal heads and passages in it , both of doctrine , seeming argumentation , and their objections , which i have here inserted , in their own very words ( as i have their book in manuscript to evince ) and i wrote a reply to each particular , for the clearing the truth , and to manifest his and their abuse thereof ; and their gross perversion of the holy scriptures , together with their self contradictions , which are very apparent and easie to be seen by any unbyassed : and not only their weakness and defection appears , but their enmity , against the doctrine of perfection ( both as it relates to the truly sanctified , and to their faith and graces , which these presbyters accuse , not only with imperfection , but with sin ) their darkness against the light of christ within ; their cruel partiallity against the free extent of saving grace ; their sinful unbelief against the sufficiency of the holy spirits teaching ; their gross ignorance and scorn against divine inspiration , and immediate teaching in these dayes ; their carnal mindedness ( for their traditional ordinances of men ) against the spiritual dispensation of the gospel , and new covenant ( wherein the antitype of all , even the enduring substance , and heavenly things themselves are enjoyed by the clear sighted children of the day , beyond and above all types , shadows , and outward representations or memento's whatsoever . ) these and the like things are spoken to in my following reply ; a coppy whereof was sent into scotland , for those concerned , soon after it was written ; whereof ( as i am informed ) edw. jamison had a coppy ; but since i had no further answer nor reply from him . and now , since some of our friends in scotland considering that there would be a service in making the following reply more publick , and knowing that the said edw. jamison with divers more of his brethren are of contentious and boasting spirits , and yet seem not ready or willing to take notice of such things as pinch them , while not made publick ( as in this case ) divers of our friends in scotland have hereupon desired the printing and publishing of this my reply ; and , in answer to their requests , i have given them my first copy thereof to divulge , desiring that all who read it , may weigh the things therein contained , and that they eye and have regard to that light of the son of god in their consciences , which manifests those things that are reprovable , and is able to endue the creature with a right judgment , between those things that are of god , and those things that differ ; and so to try all things , and hold fast that which is good. london , the th day of the th . mon. . from a real friend to all who desire to know the way of life and peace . george whitehead . the principal controversies between the litteral professors of the kirk of scotland , and the illuminated members of the church of christ , called quakers , &c. here are the doctrines and principles of some of the presbyterian priests of scotland ; collected out of a great bundle in manuscript ; subscribed , edw. jamison , with other two names on the outside , viz. oswald harland , edward orde ; together with the heads of many of his corrupt reasons and perverse arguments against the truth and scriptures , which are here detected , and the people of god , called quakers , vindicated from his and their aspersions , calumnies and false accusations therein . the priest. yov have renounced learning as antichristian . answer . that 's false . for , not learning in it self simply considered , do we renounce , but the absurd and corrupt idolatrous use of it , by men of corrupt mindes , who have not learned of christ , but in their antichristian spirit deny his immediate teachings . priest , absurd arguings against clear and abundant scripture-proofes , which have been held forth by far more able than i am . therefore , that my answers have not converted you , is not to me either strange or a disappointment . answer . false again ; i argue not against clear scripture , &c. but against thy abusing and perverting of it , as will yet further appear ; and much unprofitable labour thou mightest have spared and forborn ; whilst thy end was not to convert us , what was it for , to insult and boast over us ? and yet art far short of some that have dealt with us , if we were conquered and confuted before , hadst thou a mind to shew thy vallor over us , thou hast missed of this end also . priest , i have born witness to the truth against your way . answ. thou hast born witness to his work who is the father of lies , against the truth , as will further appear to the shame of thee and thy confederates . priest , there can hardly be brought any absurdity grosser for defence of your cause , then it self , &c. answ. then it was gross and absurd in thee to make , raise and forge , so many absurdityes upon our cause as thou hast done ; though they be very groundless , light , frothy and frivilous , as in this sequel will appear ; and become more obvious to the impartial spectators . priest , the light , the spirit , kingdom within , are taken in a dangerous unsound sence ( by quakers ) in an enthusiastick sence as communicate without scripture . answ. it s both dangerous and unsound in thee and thy fellows , to oppose the light and spirits imediate teachings , and kingdom within ; which both teacheth sufficiently and opens the scriptures , and leads into all truth ; and to scoff at the true sence-hereof , though under the term enthusiastick , or enthusiasm ( however ironically and reproachfully rendred by you ) which if that be dangerous and unfound , then is divinely inspired unsound . is this good doctrine ? for , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in quo deus est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , deus divine , inspired ; enthusiasmus , an inspiration , it is the inspiration of the almighty that gives understanding . is this dangerous ? no ; unless to the priests to discover their ignorance . and is not the light , spirit , kingdom within , communicated before the scriptures are truly understood and opened ? what darkness and error hast thou here implyed and signified ? and doth not the light and spirit , bring to the right use and end of the scriptures which was given by inspiration ? priest , there is no man free from sin in this life , &c. christ doth not totally subdue it in this life . for that place , joh. of christs being manifest to destroy the works of the devil ; if ye take it so , may as well prove that sathan shall not tempt a child of god. a●sw . this plainly enough shews thy confusion , and ignorance of christs manifestation and work ; and of his vertue and blood ; which destroyes the devils works , cleanseth from all sin , thorowly purgeth them that believe and follow him . secondly , thy inference is gross and absurd : to charge all with sin whom sathan tempts ; or to make his tempting gods children , a reason of their not having ●n totally subdued ; for christ was tempted , yet sinned not ; for the p●ince of darkness found nothing in him . and , he that abids in him , sins not . and we being made free from sin , and become the servants of god , we have our fruit unto holiness . was not this the good end of christs coming ? what sayes antichrist , satan and his agents and sophisters to it ? priest , neither doth these scriptures ( joh. . . whoever is born of god sinneth not . or that ver . . he that abids in him commits not sin , and chap. . . the evill one toucheth him not ) prove any thing , &c. do they not prove any thing ? sad doctrine . is this divulg'd in the kirk of scotland ? thus to oppose , not onely christs work , but the words of plain scripture , and say they do not prove any thing ; when as they ( viz. joh. . , . chap. . . ) prove that , whoever is born of god sinneth not . he that abids in christ sins not . the evil one toucheth him not . doth this prove nothing ? doth not this equally reflect upon christs apostles as well as us ? and implicitly say , they should have been silent , and not so have pleaded christs manifestation , and the state of him that 's born of god , against sin , antichrist , and decievers ; whereas they john wrot to were plainly cautioned , not to be decieved ; for he that doth righteousness is righteous , even as he is righteous . priest , it 's not the words of scripture pickt out which explain the sence , &c. this is nothing but a silly and gross cavilling , to insist upon bare words contrary to their sence . answ. must we then go to the priests for their sence , contrary to plain scripture , where t is neither parable nor allegory , who pick out , and reject plain scripture according to their own private imaginations and conceptions ; and yet other whiles in contradiction to themselves , tell us the scripture is the rule ; life is to be had in it , and not communicated without it ; but yet such scriptures as apparently contradict their gross and antichristian principles , they can throw by and reject as proving nothing , as this corrupt minded man hath . priest , by this way a man may prove the grossest blasphemies , as the polythrites saying , there are many gods from , cor. . . yet in the next verse , there is but one god , &c. answ. first , not by our use of the scriptures , both fro ma● right mind and for a good end , namely , against sin . secondly , and if in the next verse after , he that is born of god sinneth not , thou hadst proved that he doth sin in that he is tempted ; thou hadst said som●hing to thy business of accusing all gods children with sin term of life , but herein the scriptures own thee not . priest , that joh. . , . is to be understood in a limitted sence , namely ; that they do not continue in sin wilfully and with delight , without repentance . answ. that 's not johns sence but thine , which is as much as to say , his was not true ; for do they continue in sin , and yet sin not ? this is a contradiction , or do t●ey continue in it and still repent of it ? where 's then the fruits and effects of true repentance ? or is there not a time of confessing , repenting , and time of forsaking sin ? and casting off every weight and burthen , and of being cleansed from all unrighteousness . priest , they do not commit sin with full consent , without controuling of the motions : the evil one toucheth them not to entangle them in such a way of sinning , &c. answ. as much as to say , they do commit sin , and the evil one doth touch them , but th●y sin not with full consent ; which is all one as to say , john did not say true , when he said , whoever is born of god sinneth not . the wicked one toucheth him not , &c. he commits not sin ; but we have ground to believe him before sathans messengers , who thus have contended and disputed for his work . priest , he is an advocate for our sins , is meant of the sins present and to come . answ. not that sin should allwayes remain in beli●vers , but that they should be called and delivered out of it , and become gods righteousness in him . priest , his saying , ( if we sin ) implyeth as much as ( when we sin. ) answ. is this thy learning thou hast boasted of ? thus to pervert scripture , and the very plain sence of words , as to make [ if we sin ] as positive or absolute as , [ when we sin ] so [ if ] in other cases may as well be taken for [ when ] as if we say , we have not sined , we make him a liar , is as much as when we say , we have not sinned , &c. what an absurdity would this imply against the apostles , according to thy sence of him ; who but one impudent would not be ashamed thus grosly to abuse the scriptures ? which else where thou seemest to lay such great stress upon . priest , we know in part , is an imperfect degree of knowledge , and so sinful . answ. as this intends the apostle , it s a false and erronious conclusion , it s ne●ther true morrally nor spiritually , degrees vary not the property of the thing , their knowledge they had by degrees was gods gift to them , and was spiritual from above , an effect of life and truth ; which to say is sinful , so accuseth the cause of it which is blasphemous ; and if the apostles knowledg was sinful because in part , then what were their epistles , pr●achings , testimonies , &c. which proceeded from ( or were effects of ) their knowledge they had of god : were they sinful ? if not , the cause and ground thereof could not be sinful , therefore away with such sinful stuff and false conclusions upon the apostles as thou hast uttered . for the wisdom which is from above , is pure , but yours is from beneath which is corrupt and sinful . priest , it s false absurdity put upon our doctrine , that we by it strengthen the hands of wickedness . for , answ. your bad fruits and those that follow you , who have learned from your corrupt doctrines to plead and contend for sin , both from the pulpits to the alehouses , taverns and play-houses , do manifest you guilty herein ; and we not to have wronged you in saying , you have strengthened the hands of wickedness by your sinful doctrine , and many of you by your corrupt lives also . priest , for we teach that believers should be dayly ( by the strength of the spirit ) fighting against the flesh . answ. that 's but a cover , what incouragment give you them to fight against it , when you deny they shall ever over-come and be freed here . priest , paul and barnabas sinned , either both or one of them , in that sharp contention . answ. not all their life time , that contention held not so long as thy ( and your ) pleading for sin . priest , who strengtheneth then the hands of wickedness ? whether you , who teach a believer may not onely sin , but fall away from truth , grace , &c. or we who teach that we do sin ; but that we cannot thereby fall wholly from faith , from grace , from god , &c. answ. not we but you : we exhort to diligence and watchfulness , to keep the faith , to make their calling and election sure , that they may never fall , as the apostles did ; and warn such as are not come to that growth , least they fall and draw back to perdition , which tends to beget into more fear , watchfulness and circumspection , and not into a false security , ease and liberty , as your doctrine doth , which is for sin term of life ; and yet tell people they shall not ther●by fall away from grace , &c. priest , dare any of you say , there is never any vain thoughts , &c. in prayer , or anger against those that injure you ? if you dare say so , your light within is but meer darkness , &c. answ. the controversy is not about our attainment , and for us to affirm what we have in that case would not decide it ; but we do affirm , that state is attainable , through faith in the power of god which purifies the heart ; and our light is not darkness , and the thoughts of the just are right ; and you that are in your vain thoughts and having anger when you pray ; how do you fullfil gods command , and the apostles doctrine ? to hold up holy hands without wrath and doubting , do not you offer up a cains sacrifice herein ? and is not your light ( or that which you put for light ) darkness ? priest , there is need even for a david to say , cleanse me from my secret sins . answ. not all his life time , for then he received not an answer to his ●rayer , but h● testifies otherwise ; that god heard his prayer , and granted his requests ; and c●mmended the state of the undefiled in the way , who do no iniquity , &c. but to argue that because he prayed to be cleansed from his secret sins , and therefore was not clean so long as he lived ( is all one to say ) therefore god heard him not ; which is gross and absurd . priest , the commands of god are of use to a believer , that cannot fulfil them in his graces ; namely to convince him of sin , that he may be driven to lay hold on christ for imputed righteousness , for further supply of his grace , &c. answ. the intent of gods commands , were that they might be obeyed and fulfill●d , through that grace and ability god gives for that end , and not to be broken and transgressed ; for unbeleivers ( yea the world ) many times are convinced of sin by the spirit ; so thou hast grosly wronged the beleivers , in representing their state here but as a convinced state , which many who are unconverted are come to ; whereas they to whom god imputeth righteousness ( and not sin ) their sin is covered , and in their spirits is no gui●e , psal. . , . see thy error and confusion . priest , for perfect righteousness [ inherent ] there is no promises to this sence , in all the scriptures to any beleiver . answ. the work of god and his righteousness ( or image which man was made in ) is perfect , and this christ comes to restore into again , and god hath promised and made known him for this end . and i will wash them from all their filthiness , saith the lord , &c. the word inherent is not mine , but obtruded upon me from a false intent . priest , there are promises of a growth unto believers , and of a fullness ; but this is to be meant of such as is consistent with some defects and a body of sin. answ. a growth and a fullness , and yet denies pe●fection , and so the apostles doctrine , eph. . a g●owth and a fullness consistent with a body of sin : is this the principle and faith of the kirk of scotland ? surely here 's darkn●ss to be felt , who can raise an absurdiy and confusion from this , grosser then it self ? do●h not this growth and fullness consist by christ and in him ? if so ; by whom consists sin and its body ? do they consist together ? or is not the body of sin put off , where the circumcision of christ is experienced ? priest , zecharias , his walking in all the commands and ordinances of god blameless : this perfection was consisting with misbelief , luke . . , . answ. ( a gross errour again ) his blamelesness was in his walking in all the commands of god , but his mis-belief was after , and was reproved or blamed by the angel ; for he was smitten for it : but thy doctrine tells us quite contrary , as much as mis-belief is blameless , because blamlesness consists with it as thou implyest ; but this is like much more . priest , david , job , daniel , their failings are noted , which i might cite if i did not study brevity . answ. so are their deliverances noted , and if thou wert not partial , and of a wrong spirit thou wouldest note them . how hast thou studied brevity , to stuff up near sheets of paper with quarrelling and cavilling against us , in reply to so little as was writ to thee ? priest , how shall they believe without a preacher ; gods ordinary appointed way for begeting faith is by preaching , and not by immediate teaching alone without preaching . answ. gods appointed way for begeting faith is the word of faith , whcih is nigh in the heart , which the apostles preached ; and the inward teaching of the spirit , without which there is no true and effectual preaching , which directs and brings to the word : christ the word , is the author of faith , whom god hath appointed for salvation ; and he teaches both immediatly and instrumentally ; both inwardly and through preaching openly , he is not limitted , yet no preaching is truely effectual without him who is the chief teacher . for , priest , it might have been answered by one of your oppinion ; . paul , your question is idle and vain , for most men believe without a preacher ; they shall believe the light within teaching them . answ. if they cannot preach except they be sent , then who must send them and give them power for that work but christ ? secondly , neither do we so accuse pauls question with being idle , nor say that most men believe without a preacher ; especially if they believe the light within teaching them ; for that is christs light who is the true teacher , which brings to the substance of true preaching and teaching , which proceeds from the light within . priest , the scriptures preached , or the things contained in them is the ordinary way of begeting faith. answ. the things contained in them , seems a little to mend thy matter ; which things contained , were before the scriptures or writings were , and extend farther ; for some had and performed the things contained in the law , which had not the law ( viz. outward ) and many in this day can testify , that the spirit and light within , hath manifested within , many things contained in scripture before they read them outwardly there . priest , the whole council of god paul sheweth forth , act. . . yet no other things then those which moses and the prophets did say ( the scriptures ) act. . . answ. all pauls preaching or his whole council from god , is no● recorded there , but little in comparison of what he p●eached recorded ; he continued his speech or preaching till midnight , ver . . and talked even till break of day : where is this sermon recorded ? many scriptu●es and books were writ by the holy men , which we have not in the bible ; were it not grose and false therefore to exclude them as no part of the councel of god ? priest , is not that another gospel , that all the world over are taught christ and his gospel ? answ. it is not our gospel , therefore unjustly charged against us ; for not all the world over are taught , or are learned christ and his gospel , though all have a light from him sufficient to teach . priest , in the use of scriptures we are to expect he will beget faith , by his inward teachings and workings on the heart . answ. the matter is somwhat mended , in confessing to his inward teaching and working on the heart , but in that it seems to be tyed up or limited to the use of the scriptures , this d●nyes the sufficiency and extent of the spirits inward teaching , which many have who cannot read nor use scriptures ; and those who having not the law , were a law to themselves , and shewed the works of the law written in their hearts , &c. though the scriptures of truth , in their place we must needs own , in that spirit that gave them forth ; but whereas other-whiles preaching is made the cause but now the scriptures ; this is to make the scriptures and preaching all one , and ●hen people may spare their mony they give to priests for preaching , and giving their interpretations to the scriptures , and onely read them with expectation of christs inward teaching and working on the heart ; which indeed ought to be inwardly and spiritually expected and waited for . priest , he bid them search the scriptures , for in them they thought to have eternal life ; and they testified of him , joh. . . this thought could not be a delusion . ans if this thought of their having eternal life in the scriptures was not a delusion , then they had eternal l●fe according to their thought ; but christ testifies the contrary against ●hem in the following words saying , ye will not come unto me , that ye might have life ; so to affirm they had it in the scriptures , is to affirm they had christ in the scriptures , and that their searching them was their coming to christ , which is both contrary to their state and opposite to christs own words of them ; that they would not come unto him that they might have life : and this contradicts thy former , and much of thy stuff about scriptures . priest , ●f the searching and believing the testimony of christ given by the scriptures , be not really to find eternal life but an error , &c. ( such a thought as we blind priests have ) then christ would have told them of that error , and bid them look for life by following the light within . answ. believing the testimony of christ and searching the scriptures , are to things , and the belief of which testimony , comes not barely by s●a●ching them , for if it did ; then all that searched them had that belief , and so life , &c. which is contrary to the truth of what is apparent concerning many , and to christs own words of them , they thought to have eternal life in the scriptures , and yet had neither heard the voyce of god at any time , nor seen his shape , they not believing him whom he sent ; nor would come to christ that they might have life . priest , the fathers , before the scriptures were written , had the things contained in them by revelations , audable voices , visions , dreames , &c. not by the light within , your enthusiastick fancy . answ. yes , it was by the light within that they had the knowledge of those , and had revelations , prophecies , &c. for the word of prophecy was a light to them ; and the inspiration of the almighty gave them understanding , when god spoke in a dream or vision of the night , &c. and god hath promised , to pour down his spirit upon all flesh , that sons and daughters may prophecy , young men may see visions , &c. joel . was this a fancy ? or to be mockt at as thou hast done ? ( your enthusiastick fancy thou say●st ) what grose error and ignorance hast thou herein shewed . priest , that christ will now beget faith , without the scriptures preached or known , it were as good an inference to say ; because , that by faith in jesus christ to come in the flesh , the fathers under the old testament were saved , therefore though one should not believe that jesus christ is come in the flesh , yea , though he should deny he is come he may be sav●d if he believe he is to come . answ. an unequal parallel , and false inference ( and abuse against us ) to compare the scriptures with christs coming in the flesh , or to bring them in competition therewith ; and how did the fathers know he was to come , but by the light or spi●it of prophecy within ? and how did the saints truly and effectually know he was come , but by the understanding and eternal life he had given them ? from whence scriptures were given , and from whence they spoke and wrot . priest , . you deny the main end of scriptures , which is , that we by believing what is written of christ. . in them may have eternal life , joh. . . that we may find eternal life by searching , they testify of him . answ. nay , the main end of scriptures we cannot deny , whilst we own and testifie to that spirit which gave them forth ; and to him whom they testify of , to wit christ , by whom they are to be fulfilled unto the true believer , that reads them in a right mind and spirit . secondly , but where having life in them ( viz. in the scriptures ) is laid down as following believing ? this is an error depending upon the former , and a contradiction to the scripture that saith , that believing ye might have life through his name ; he doth not say , in the scriptures , nor by searching them , but through his name of whom they testify , and those to whom these things were written , that they might beleive that jesus is the christ , &c. and have life through his name . they were in some measure prepared ( by the spirit or light of christ allready manifested ) to receive those things which tend●d to the furtherance of their faith , and confirmation of their belief concerning christ , that they might have life through his name . pr , whoso holdeth this , denieth them really and interpretatively . answ. is this thy proof of thy false accusation against us of denying the scriptures , that we deny them interpretatively ; so then our denying the priests interpretations upon scripture which are not scripture , must be deemed a denial of scriptures , as if they were either the same or of equall authority with scripture ; or when they tell us of finding life in the scriptures , we must take it for gran●ed , that they mean in their interpretations upon them , whereby in many things they contradict plain scripture as hath been proved any times ; so however , when they bid people search the scriptures for life eternal ( in them ) they intend they should take their meanings along with them , and believe as they say , and so people must run into an implicite faith , if they take things on their authority and credit ; for by their meanings and interpretations , they can sit as judges over scriptures ( and tell people they must give the sence , and reconcile them ) and over the lig●t and spirit within , and tell them its but an enthusiastick fancy ; but who are not so ign●ble as to receive a belief or faith from them on such a dark , implicite and slender account as this of priests ? but wait in the light of christ within , for a right understanding of things that are spiritual , relating to faith and salvation : such find they have cause from the certain demonstration and testimony of the spirit of truth within , to believe christs light and spirit rather then the priests meanings , and private interpretations , wrestings and perverting of scriptures . priest , it is not about the expression of the word of god that debate should be kept up , if in a sound sence granted , that they are called the words of god. answ. so , then the scriptures are granted to be words of god , why then holdst thou debate against us , but to shew thy cavilling spirit ? for the word was that , from whence words and scriptures proc●eded ; and came to the prophets and messengers of god before they spoke the words to write them . priest , ye deny that faith cometh by hearing of the scriptures which is the word of god ; for that we receiving them by faith are saved ; which is plainly asserted , joh. . . answ. we deny that faith comes barely by hearing the scriptures , for if it did so come , then all that hear or read scriptures must have faith , and hear the word , but we see the contrary ; and christ told the jewes they could not understand what he said because they could not hear his words , and yet they could hear scriptures , and him speak outwardly to them : but this is a mistery hid from such as thou art ; and there were those whom the word preached did not profit , b●cause it was not mixt with faith in them . priest , your selves acknowledg that they are the words of god , then this or that perticular saying is the word of god ; seeing there is a singular where there is a plural . answ. but singular and plural differs , and though there be a singular included where there is a plural , is it therefore good logick to say that singular includes plural , or they are both one ? or to sa● , that because there are words of god in the scriptures , and where there are words in the plural , there must needs be a word in the singular ; therefore these words are the word and so are the scriptures ? is this thy l●arning and logick ? surely thou art so far from knowing the word which lives for ever , and was before either the scriptures or words in it were given out , that thou art yet as one senceless and confounded in thy expressions , and cavilling against ●ruth . priest , the scriptures in the bible are called the word of god , mark. . . answ. this is a very general expression of the scriptures in the bible being the word of god , when they do not say so of themselves , whereas all the scriptures in the bible are so far from terming themselves the word of god , in such an eminent expression , that they cannot all be truely termed his words , there being in many places recorded both words of wicked men and devils ; though the historical part that relates these things be true , as to the narration of them : and they , mark. . . that made the word of god of none effect by their tradition , and rejected his commandment , did really act contrary to the word within , which moses preached , and against the law of god without , so that 's no proof of the scriptures in the bible being called the word . priest , that which maketh wise to salvation , or maketh the man of god perfect , &c. is inspired of god , that is the word of god which maketh wise , profiteth , tim. . . answ. here again hast thou fallen short of proof of thy matter , for where it is said , all scripture is given by inspiration of god , &c. [ is ] is added : so it 's , all scripture given by inspiration : but if that must be called the word of god in thy sence , then it may be read , all the word of god is given by inspiration of god : how will that sound and signify ? or , all the word of god given by inspiration of god , &c. see thy ignorance and impertinency ▪ for though we grant that all scripture given by divine inspiration is profitable to the man of god ; for the making wise to salvation , but it is through faith , which words [ through faith ] i find the● to have taken little notice of [ if any ] or of his being the man of god first , that knows the profit of the scriptures which are given by inspiration , that he may be perfect , which the priests deny in denying perfection , and that he may be thorowly furnished : and many things were written , and directed to the saints and not to the world , &c. but what thou concludest from hence doth not follow . priest , is there any prophesie almost , or book of the scripture , but it calleth the things contained in them the word of god. thus saith the lord , &c. answ. for , as was hinted , there are many things written in the scripture , that can neither properly be called the word , nor are they words of god , as what the serpent said to eve , pharaoh to moses , false priests and prophets , in the true prophets dayes , many things , and accusations which the jewes said to christ , were these the word of god ? mayest thou not here see thy error and confusion ? priest , there is nothing so much commendeth the necessity of the knowledge of scriptures and learning , as the horrid detestable absurdityes which men unlearned , &c. wresting scriptures to their own perdition ; however they revile study of scriptures and learning . answ. there is nothing more discommendeth things , and the priests way of learning and studying the scriptures , as your perverting and abusing them for your own ends and turns , and the p●iest making a trade of them by their learning ; and must people depend upon the fruits of your study and learning to know the scriptures ? and yet other whiles they must expect to find eternal life in the scriptures , to be made wise unto salvation by them ; what contradiction's here ? but if the scripture given by divine inspiration , be profitable to the man of god , and by the same inspiration be understood , and make wise to salvation through fai●h ; and that the spirit of truth lead into all truth , then wee 'l not be beholding to thee and such as thou art , for your learning and study , who deny the immediate teaching of the spirit , and so are but still unlearnd as to the things of god : and why doest thou villify us as unlearned , and make a flourish as if thou art some eminent learned man ? this shews thy shallowness , pride and conceitedness , and were not peter and john unlearned men , and so accounted by the learned among the jewes ? yet were full of the holy ghost and learned by it : wouldst thou and thy companions limmit the gift of god , or a right understanding of scriptures , to your natural drossy learning and imaginary study ? o! the lord hath raised up and brought to light that life and spirit , which has brought many to see thorow you and your corrupt learning , and babylonish stuff . and whereas thou dost villify and jeer upon these words , viz. that the word which the bereans received with all readiness of mind , and the scriptures which they searched are two things , and sayest , i purposely pass by that which follows viz. whether these things were so ? answ. are they not mentioned distinctly as two ? the word they received , &c. the scriptures they searched to see whether these things were so . now there was more in preaching then bare words or scripture , for their gospel came not in word onely ; but in spirit and in power , which when that had touched their hearts , and they had received a sence of the spirit and life which the apostles were ministers of ; this prepared them for a further understanding , of things and matters relateing to the testimony of truth and of the scriptures , when they searched them in that weak state wherein they were at first receit of truth , for a further or additional confirmation of their understanding of things declared upon scripture account touching christ ; but if according to thy sence , the word which they r●ceived with all readiness of mind , and the scriptures ▪ which they searched , to see whether these things were so , were but one thing ; then , is it good doctrine to say , that when they received the word with all readiness of mind , they searched the word to see if those things in it were true , or to try the truth of them ? how then was it received with all readiness of mind ? or was it the scripture which they received with all readiness of mind , and th●n when they so received them , searched them to see whether those things where so ? ( is this thy excellent logick ? ) if so , then thy doctrine runs thus ; they received the scriptrues with all readiness of mind , and they searched the scriptures to see whether the scriptures were so , or for proof that the scriptures were true , they must search the scriptures to prove them true by themselves ; will this be admitted of as excellent logick in your schoo●es , to prove an assertion by the same assertion , and to beg the question in controversie ? if so , then in all points asserted and disputed of , it is so because it is so , will serve for proof . priest , the word you say is one , how can it be called those things ? answ. if the word which i say is one , cannot be called those things , th●n it proves what i said bef●re , that the word and scriptures are two things , and that their receiving the word with all readiness of mind was inward , but the scriptures are outward , which they searched after they received the word . priest , are the things written in the scriptures , and the scriptures two things ? what excellent logick is this ? answ. if they be not two things , and yet the word ( which is but one ) and those things contained in them be two things , how are the scriptures the word , seeing the word and those things are two ? yet here again thou sh●west very little learning as professed by thee ; for the writing and the things written of , are two things as well as scriptures , and the things contained in them , for there is the thing containing , and the things contained , according to the distinction of ( them and ) some of your selves . priest , or ye must take the scriptures in the abstract , for the writen characters as distinguisht from the things that are writ , so nothing can be either searched or found in a number of characters . answ. i know of none that appear so ridiculous as to search them meerly as a number of characters , so abstract to prove things or matters , but to search them for those things or declarations contained in them which appear to the eye of the understanding , and not to the outward eye in the bare characters ; and yet ( scriptures ) signify ( writings ) priest , whereas ye ask whether i think none hath faith , so none shall be saved but those that hear the scriptures by the outward ear or can read them ? what god may do , or doth in an extraordinary is not the question ; for his absolute soveranity in his dispensations of grace is not tied , &c , answ. then god and his dispensations of grace are not limitted or tied as many other times thou , and others of you seem to tye up all now to scripture for life eternal , for faith , &c. other whiles to your interpretations , learning and the fruits of your study ; but the way to god and salvation is christ , and no man comes un●o the father but by him ; nor none comes to the son , but by the fathers drawings , which are known in the spirit and light , by which we have access to god. priest , the scriptures search the thoughts as an instrument , and christ is the principal searcher . answ. that 's christ or the word of god which is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart , that searches the heart ; and it s the lord god of hosts that telleth unto man what his thoughts are , and searcheth the heart , who both can and doth sp●ak what he pleaseth , both of things declared in scriptures and without them , as he sees meet to the perticular states of men and persons ; and so to lay so much upon scriptures which belongs to god and christ , and is properly their work is unsound : and wh●re provest thou the scriptures search the thoughts ? and wher● say they so of themselves , when they do not speak and direct to any perticular person and shew him his thoughts and actions perticularly , which the light doth ? and the spirit of truth reproves and convinceth of the several evils whereof persons are guilty . it s the lord that sets their sins in order before them . priest , it is false , that any have a sincere supernatural faith of the scriptures that are ignorant of christ , &c. they testify of him . answ. so then they must have some knowledg of christ , and from thence have a supernatural faith of the scriptures : but how doth this agree with much more of thy work , about searching the scriptures for life eternal in them for begetting faith &c. priest , the foundation of the saints and houshold of god , are the phrophets and apostles , jesus christ being the cheif corner-stone , eph. . . answ. were not the prophets and apostles of that houshold of god ? if they were , then they were their own foundation according thy to assertion here , but thou hast wronged the scripture ; for it was the foundation of the prophe●s and apostles ( mark of the prophets and apostles ) they were built upon christ jesus the cheif corner stone . priest , by the prophets and apostles that are the foundation is meant their doctrine , contained in the scriptures , not the persons . answ. their foundation was before their doctrine or scriptures : another foudation can no man lay , then that which is already laid , which is christ : but sure the prophets and apostles and scriptures were not he . priest , the scripture makes known inward sins , of thoughts and lusts , rom . . is able to mak● the man of god perfect ; if they did not search into the thoughts of the heart , discovering who are blind and carnal , how can they make wise unto salvation ? doth not the scriptures make us wise unto salvation ? therefore are they not able to save us ? christ as the principle cause of our salvation , is said alone to save us . answ. thou meanest christ as the principle searcher or the spirit , but the scriptures as the instrument ; and then thou shouldest have said , christ makes known inward sins , the spirit searcheth all things , and god judgeth the secrets of men by christ , according to the gospel ; without the knowledg of christ , there 's no supernatural faith of the scriptures ; nor can any be made wise unto salvation , but through that faith : and that christ and the spirit makes use of ( speaks and opens ) things contained in the scripture many times , who denies that ? for then he speaks ( and opens ) those things immediately ; and thus the law was made convincing to paul , not before it came thus ; and if on that account they be the instrumental cause , then its christ , or the spirit ( by h●s own speaking or teaching and openings ) that is the searcher and saviour : and then it were most proper to lay the stress upon him as the searcher and saviour ; and not thus often tell of the scriptures being the searcher of the thoughts , and of having in them life eternal ; lest also that ignorant persons go idolatrously ( according to the tendency of much of thy matter ) to put them in the place of christ , or seek to make them the saviour , seeing that christ ( the principle cause of our salvation ) ( as thou confessest ) is said alone to save us , and if he alone save , its sufficient , people be directed to him for that end ; for in him all sufficiency is , who can now immediately speak matters contained in the scriptures , as well as when they were first given by inspiration ; and it is the inspiration of the allmighty that giveth the true understanding , without which the right use and end of the scripture is not known . priest , the scriptures of truth ( not i ) make four saviours , viz. the ingrafted word , faith , scriptures , timothy , &c. answ. to us there is but one god , one christ , one absolute saviour , one faith , &c. priest , there is a faith of the scriptures that is historical , this is not sufficient , but this faith may be of christ as well , and yet they not be saved ; but who has saving , unfeigned , supernatural faith of scriptures , cannot wa●t it of christ. answ. well then this saving supernatural faith of scripture and of chr●st , must come f●om a supernatural light , or christ who is th● light and author of faith. priest , how shall they believe without a preacher sent , joh. . verse last , they must have the scriptures who have the knowledge of christ ; for without this they cannot be kept from hell . answ. who must send them if there be no immediate teaching or revelation now ? how provest thou thy call from scripture , and that thou art comissionated by christ to preach ? thou shouldest rather have said , they must have christ who truely know the scriptures , and without him they cannot be kept from hell . priest , in th●se commandments written is our life , deut. . , . answ. the word and commandment was nigh them in their hearts , that they might obey it , and walk in the commandments and live , see verses , , , , . how herein thou hast diminished and wrested scripture ; and that word which was nigh in the heart the apostles preached : it doth not say , in the commandments written is your life . priest , but that all nations have the knowledg of christ ; it s in an enthusiastical bible ; &c these places , he enlightens every man that cometh into the world ; and , hath no resp●ct of persons , are far wide from this conclusion , therefore all have the knowledg of christ ; all the turks , jewes , pagans , &c. oh! what monstrous horrid doctrine , &c. answ. it is not our assertion nor conclusion , that all nations or people have the knowledg of christ ( herein hast thou abused us and our principle ; ) for though he enlightens all , they all do not walk in the light , nor believe in it : but all nations and people that come ever to know christ and be saved , must walk in his light , who is the way , the truth , and the life . priest , christ as he is god , equal with the father hath planted some light of a natural conscience in every man of the world . answ. in him was life , and the life was the light of men ; and he was that light , which enlighteth every man that comes into the world ; who is not natural , nor his light that shines from him in the conscience : and god is light , who enlightens the world , and gave his good spirit in the dayes of old to the rebellious ; and sent his son a light into the world , that whosoever believes on him , might not perish but have eternal life : and here is the power and sufficiency both for believing and salvation . priest , all men have a light of a natural conscience from him , which tells that there is a god , and somewhat of the nature of god , that he is eternal ; which they may read in the creatures , rom. . , . and of the morral law , which yet is but very dark , &c. answ. where do the scriptures call it a light of a natural conscience ? what great ignorance is here , seeing christ is the true light that enlightens every man , &c. and that which might be known of god was manifested in them , which gave the knowledg of the eternal power and god-head from the creatures ; and of the law of god in the heart , and that light , or that which might be known of god which gave this knowledg , was not natural of a natural conscience , as blindly is conceived and asserted ; for the natural man with his natural knowledg , perceives not those spiritual or invisible things , nor can he know them ; but he that 's turned to a spiritual light and principle within , where that which may be known of god is manifested . priest , but of christ in his nature , and the nature of faith , they cannot without the scriptures , so far as it is gods appointed way . answ. christ is gods appointed way , &c. this high and general opinion of the scriptures , depends upon the former conceit , of finding eternal life in them , by searching of them ; but that 's answered and contradicted by this our antagonist himself , over and over : supernatural knowledge and faith of scriptures , being not had without the knowledg of christ ; but there are many search and read scriptures , that are both out of this knowledg and faith , so that t is evident , that the bare reading scriptures doth not attract supernatural faith , knowledg , light , spirit , &c. but it is the supernatural light and spirit , that brings to the serious reading and supernatural knowledg of scriptures : and it s also confessed in contradiction to much more ( however ) that the light in all men teaches them of the morral law ; and , is not that scripture or things contained in it ? priest , the light wherewith christ enlightens all , all nations had before christ came in the flesh , as well as now ; and yet , who will say that they all knew christ ? answ. it is not our saying nor assertion , that they all knew christ , though some by his spirit or light then , had a fore-sight of his coming before he so came , though since he has given a more full demonstration and discovery of his light. priest , if all men are taught to know christ by the light within them , why sent he apostles to all nations , to make them disciples ? mat. . . answ. all men are not taught that knowledg by the light , because all obey it not , but many love darkness rather : the apostles were sent to turn them from darkness to the light , that therein they might know their doctrine fulfilled , and be christs disciples . priest , why did he give gifts to apostels , pastors , teachers , which should continue till we all come to that unity of the faith ; and fulness of the stature of christ ? was that light within dim in those times , that it needed the help of outward light ? how was it a mystery hid from ages ? answ. the dimness was in the persons that were to be turned , and directed to the light , not in the light it self ; and the apostles went by virtue of the light and gifts in them , for the help of people and not the light , for their sufficiency and help was in it , and from it , which was not outward nor natural ; and having confessed gifts , teachers , &c. to continue till we all come to the unity of the faith , and fulness of the stature of christ. how obviously hast thou herein contradicted thy former doctrine , for imperfection and sin till death ? &c. priest , you have made the visible church very large , who have taken all the men of the world that ever hath been into it . if the lord has given grace and knowledg equally to all men , wherein stands the freedom of his grace towards them that are saved ? answ. these are both forged and false accusations , depending upon the former against us , for neither did we ever make the visible church of that largness , nor is it our principle , that grace and knowledge is given equally to all men ; that 's but thy false inference against us , whereupon thou hast grounded much of thy caviling against us ; like one that loves to fight with thy own shadow , or a man of straw of thy own makeing , to make and forge lies against us , and then go to confute them . unprofitable and vain . priest , never did the greatest enemy of free grace , so tye up and limmit god in the dispensations of grace as you , that with good words and fair speeches ( would ) deceive the soules of the simple . answ. nay , thou and such like , go about to tye up and limmit god in the dispensations of grace , who would tye it up onely to a few , and deny its universal extent to all , and as those priests of scotland , that formerly curst all them that held grace is free ; and that with good words and fair speeches , we would deceive the hearts of the simple , is a slander against us , and against our end and intentions , and contrary to the tendency of our words and speeches . priest , judas got as much from god as ▪ peter did , but he rejected it , but peter made better use of it . your free grace , that all men have received alike , doth not exclude boasting ; but say , well was it with us that made better use of that , which others in hell got as well as we . thanks to our deligence , and good intentions and tractableness , in harkning to the light within , which all the damned got as bright shining , as well as we ; but for christ , we have no cause to thank him more then the damned have . this is the language your doctrine of free grace teacheth men to say in their thanks-giving . answ. here-upon several of thy false conclusions and inferences against us , thou hast thus uanted and made a false language of our doctrine , contrary to the very nature and tendency of it ; who but men in hardness and impudent boldness , would go to confute , and raise absurdityes on our principles when they do not know them , but are yet to learn as thou art with thy companions ? for it is not our principle , nor the language of our doctrine that all have the knowledg of christ [ equally ] and that judas got as much from god as peter , nor that free grace all have received alike , nor that the damned got the light within as bright shining as we ; but that god is no respecter of persons , in that he gives liberally to all , so much of his grace to every one as is sufficient ; yet , not that all have received alike , or the same degree of grace and knowledg , &c. for all receive not ( or accept not ) that measure of grace given to them to obey it . but whereas we are sco●● at for saying , the cause of som●s condemnation is their rejecting the light , and their disobedience stubborness , &c. this is according to the scripture language as might be proved ar large : for the fault is not to be laid upon god , but upon man for his disobedience , when he is consumed because of iniquity , which is stubborness , rebellion , &c. for god willeth not the death of sinners , but rather their return that they may live ; and , o man thy destruction is of thy self ; but thy help is of me saith the lord : so as god is clear when he judges . now we can thank god without boasting , that he hath shewn such love , mercy , and good will in christ unto us ; and christ that he hath shewn us power , life , and sufficiency in himself , both to believe , obey , and give diligence ; and the name of god we may praise , for all his mercies and blessings he attends us withal , in the way whereunto he hath called us , and indeed all nations are called to praise the lord , which if all do not , the fault is not gods , nor to be charged upon him , or his free grace , but theirs that reject it ; and have treasured up unto themselves , wrath against the day of wrath ; and on the other hand , they that count god a hard master , and they that blaspheme against him in their torment and anguish , are but the slothful servants , and such as have not recieved the truth in the love of it ; but have had pleasure in their unrighteousness : and thereby have incurred displeasure from the righteous god , whose severity follows on them that reject his love and good-will : so these have not the light as bright shining as we ; these being condemned from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power . priest , how comes it that there is none among all these persons throughout the nations ( where the scriptures have never been heard ) that have written in the defence of the christian faith , and against the paganish worship , & c. ? travellers should have given some account of it , &c. answ. as if the scriptures were not onely the cause of life , faith , and salvation ( according to thy former stuff ) but of all writing in defence of the true faith , &c. then what was the cause and ground of sciptures ? however , it appears thou art no great traveller , nor hast had much acquaintance with such travelers as we know have given account of more christianity among divers of the heathen that have not scripture , then is among many in england and scotland , professing christianity ; besides we find in divers of the heathens ( so called ) their writings many things both morral and divine , both favouring of christianity and of some spiritual sence , several of them had of the nature and life of christianity which in it self is against all idolatry of pagans and others , though not in your borrowed terms and expressions of religion and christianity : and further , why should the apostle make use of some of the heathens expressions , and gentils experiences for proof , if they had no tendence to christianity . pr. but the best of those nations and wisest , were the greatest enemies to the gospel . answ. how provest thou that ( for we deny it ) and the ground of this thy peremptory censure and judgm●nt , against all them that had not scripture ? many of whom we believe were better then thy self ; and hast thou known the best and wisest of them , that thou art thus positive against them ? pr. you have no warrant to say , that deaf persons to whom the scriptures have no way been known , shall be saved . answ. as much as to say , they that know not the scriptures , know not salvation , or shall not be saved ; thou shouldest have said . they that know not christ , or come not to him fall short of salvation , the coming to whom , is through the fathers drawings , who drawes by his own spirit ; and darest thou say , that deaf and blind persons shall not be saved , because they cannot hear and read scripture . pr. before the scriptures he taught by audible voices , revelations , &c. but now you make all to be the light within . answ. no revelation is truely known without the light within , for what may be known of god is manifest within . pr. we deny that the power of god is immediate ( viz. in his people ) ans. you may as well deny its being in his people , and their inward communion with it , and therein you deny the very tenuor of the new covenant , and hereby limmit that power to m●diate teaching , scriptures , &c. what in you lies , which tends to eclipse and detract from that glory , sufficiency , and prerogative that is in gods power ; this is very gross and ignorant . pr , we grant it is true which the metaphysitians and divines say of god , that he concurreth in all works of creatures , immediatione vertutis & suppositi , but this ye know not what it meaneth . answ. this makes against your selves if rightly considered , and falsly thou hast said of us ( or of me ) for i do know what that phrase means , both as to words and matter ; but , and if we did not know what is meant , why didest thou use thy latine phrases and scholastick terms , to such as thou deemest so illiterate ? hast thou not herein shewed thy self a bravado . pr. he told us , he will exercise his power for us , and in us . answ. he will exercise his power in us , and yet not immediate ; what contradiction's here ? pr. why the grace of hope should be christs more then the grace of faith , &c. answ. ch●ist is the grace of all our graces , and our all , a mystery hid from thee and those of thy spirit . pr. faith is a habit and an imperfect creature , for all habits are in the category of quallity , which is an accident and so an imperfect creature . answ. what scripture have you priests of scotland for that ? of faith being a habit , an imperfect creature , or accident ; and , is accident and habit all one ? where learned'st this phylosophy to define faith ? true faith is not natural , nor a natural habit however , for thou hast granted a supernatural saving faith , but t is but a habit , an imperfect creature , whereas faith is a fruit of the spirit which is pure and perfect , and the mystery of it is held in the pure conscience ; but if thou meanest imperfect creature as to the kind or quallity , its false doctrine , and its being received by degrees doth not prove it ; for it s as truly and purely faith and that of god , and supernatural in the least degree ( yea if but as a grain of mustard-seed ) as in the greatest measure of it . pr. it is as impossible it should be otherwise , as it is that a man abiding a man should essentially be a beast . ans. is it as impossible faith should be otherwise then an imperfect creature as for a man to be essentially a beast ? sad doctrine ! this is worse and worse : faith ov●rcomes the world purifies the heart , justifies , the mystery of it is held in a pure conscience , yet not possible for it to be otherwise then an imperfect creature : darkn●ss , confusion , and contradiction to truth . pr. the grace of hope is imperfect , christ is the hope of glory . answ. these are one opposite to another , but christ is perfect , who is the grace and life of all the saints graces . pr. christs word was his audible voice speaking his mind . answ. other whiles his word is the scriptures ( with thee ) as if the scriptures and his audible voice were both one , which if this be true , all that read them hear christs audible voice ; is this authentick doctrine ? but christs own words shall stand against it , for , joh. . . why do ye not understand my speech , even because ye cannot hear my word , and we know , that who hear the son heareth the father also : but this is a mistery hid from the carnal minded who idolatrously pervert the scriptures . pr. though christ and the spirit be one , yet he is not christs word , for christ is not his own word . ans. they that hear christs word and receive it , receive of his own virtue and life in , and the words he spake unto his are spirit and life , thou hast here but cavilled , which thou mightest as well have done against several scriptures and against johns saying , in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god , &c , pr. i call the scriptures the word of god , and the gospel the word of reconcilliation : the word of god is distinguished from the word of reconcilliation . answ. other-whiles the scripture is the gospel ( and the word of god with thee ) now they are distinct , the word of god distinguished from the word of reconcilliation ; what confusion's here ? is not the word of reconcilliation gods ? god was in christ reconciling the world to himself . pr. the gospel are a part of the scriptures , and may be called one with them ; the gospel is contained in the scripture . answ. the gospel is the power of god to salvation to every one that believes , it was preached to abraham , and was before the scriptures , and is everlasting ; but thou hast spoken blindly here as before ; for , is the power of god contained in the scriptures ? then all that have the scriptures have that power in them ( or from them ) which is not true . pr. rom. . . the preaching of jesus christ according to the revelation of the mistery which was kept secret since the world began , and by the scriptures of the gospel , according to the commandment of the everlasting god , made known to all nations , for the obedience of faith. answ. but thou and such do not so preach christ , nor are so commissionated to preach , at the commandment of the everlasting god , who deny revelation , and his imediate teaching now , and this contradicts much of thy dark stuff ; for here the revelation of the mistery is prefered before the scriptures , and the preaching according to them , was from that revelation of the mistery which the apostles had in them , but , were the scriptures that revelation , and kept secret since the world began ? the revelation of christ was the mistery , christ within , the hope of glory , a mistery hid from ages , &c. how was it by the scriptures made known to all nations for the obedience of faith , if in many nations there be nei●her the knowledg of christ nor scripture , according to thy former ? and of that rom. . . which thou sayest is the scriptures of the gospel ; thou hast wronged the scriptures herein ; for it is the scriptures of the prophets , &c. pr. the gospel and mistery of christ , is made manifest by the scriptures of the prophets preached to all nations ; not by a light within : if it were not in the scriptures , how could it be manifest and made known by the scriptures ? answ. if not by the light within , how by the scripture without it ? have all that hear scripture read or preached , the knowledg of the mistery of christ without the light within ? how then doth the apostles speak of the revelation as before ? did nor he preach from the light within , or revelation of the son in him ? gal. . . how ignorant hast thou shewed thy self in this matter ? again , the mistery was not made manifest by the scriptures alone , or barely , for both revelation and preaching is mentioned before ; and to tell of the gospel and mistery being in the scriptures , is as much as to say , the power of god or christ is in the scriptures . pr. doth not mark. chap. . . call what he wrot , the gospel ? where he saith , the beginning of the gospel of jesus christ , &c. have you a forehead that cannot blush , that tells us that the gospel is not scripture ? what a feared conscience and shameless boldness have ye attained to ? answ. it is not from any feared conscience , nor shameless boldness for me to assert the gospel was before the scripture ; and if mark intended his writing ( or what he writ ) to be the beginning of the gospel of jesus christ , then it follows , that the gospel of jesus christ did not begin before mark wrot that reverevlation , and then how doth he mention what was written in the prophets , and tell of the gospel of jesus christ ? and did not jesus christ shew forth his power and preach the gospel , before that of mark was writ ? but seeing thou hast taken the liberty , both to give thy meanings to scriptures , and pretends to compare one scripture with another , i may have liberty to tell the other scriptures in this case , as in , luke . . . he saith , forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things , which are most truely believed amongst us , and ver . . it seemed good unto me also , &c. and , act. . . the former treatise have i made o theophilus : so what they writ , it was a treatise or declaration of things spoken , done , and believed , and much of which relates to the historical part of things and matters ; but if the written declaration , treatise of things , or scripture without , be the gospel , then hireling priests may be silent , and let people read them , without spending their mony of them for their various meanings , traditional interpretations , &c. for the gospel ought not to be added to , nor another preached ; how-be-it there is a difference between true preaching , proceeding from the immediate spirit and power of god ; which paul was a minister of , and the scriptures or writings outward , without the spirit or life ; for paul was not a minister of the letter , but of the spirit , and new testament . and is not a living ministry and voice , especially where it lives by vertue of the power of god , from whence it immediatly comes of more force and authority then the letter , or writings , which scriptures signify ? yea i do further affirm , that the same words or d●clarations , as immediatly proceeding from the power or spirit of god , is of more force and effect then the same words would be as spoken onely from scripture without . deny it you priests if you can , i can in the name of the lord , largely demonstrate it against you . pr. the scripture is everlasting , viz. what is contained in them . answ. confusion , are they both one ? this is like much more . pr. is not the gospel written by the prophets , the scriptures written by them . a●sw . th●n marks writing was not the beginning of it , here 's contradiction and error : again the apostle calls them the scriptures of the prophets , but speaks of the gospel , revelation and mistery before , see , rom. . , . where its very plain he makes a distinction between them and the scripture . pr. i deny any immediate teaching by god. answ. then thou deniest god to teach his people himself , when he dwells in them , wherein thou hast denied the truth of the gospel and new covenant . pr. christs immediate teaching will no way follow , for his opening the understanding to know the scriptures ; for he doth by the same supernatural influence shine on the understanding , and scriptures , luk. . . answ. doth christ by a supernatural influence shine on the understanding , and yet deniest thou his immediate teaching , what a labyrinth of confusion and distraction art thou fallen into ! and it appears , without this supernatural influence shining on the understanding , the scriptures are not truely known nor opened . pr. that christ was first known himself , or he gave the knowledg of the scriptures . the apostle paul , rom. , . denies your consequence . answ. have any a supernatural knowledg or faith of the scriptures , who have not a knowledg of christ ? it seemes thou hast forgotten thy former words ; and the apostle doth not deny my consequence ; for he had a knowledg of christ before he preached him , or writ epistles concerning him , and his knowledg of the son of god , was by his revlation in him , besides the very order , tenour , and matter of the apostles words cited by thee , makes for me against thy self , see , rom. . , . for they run thus , now to him that is of power to stablish you , according to my gospel , and the preaching of jesus christ , according to the revelation of the mistery , which was kept secret since the world began : but now is made manifest , and by the scriptures of the prophets , according to the commandment of the everlasting god , made known to all nations for the obedience of faith , &c. this thou mayest peruse again to thy owne contradiction . pr. the cause indeed must be before the effect , and yet not allwayes in order of time , but of nature , &c. if there be a pryority , or posteriority of christ in the soul , certainly the scriptures hath it in the order of nature ; though the lord in the communicating the knowledg of them , he is in his being first ; because , the cause must be before the effect ; so the giver of knowledg before the knowledge given . answ. this being rightly considered , we find both contradiction and ignorance in them ; for , is the cause before the effect allway●s in order of nature , not of time , and yet , have the scriptures the priority in the order of nature ? where learnedest thou this distinction ? not from the scriptures nor from christ ; surely christ hath the priority in order of time , for he is in his being first , and if the cause must be before the effect , alwayes in order of nature ; then he hath it in both ; for he was the cause both of scripture , and communicating the knowledg thereof , as thou confessest ; as also , that the cause must be before the effect , so the giver of knowledg before the knowledg given : and indeed , he was before all things , and by him all things consists , and in all things he is to have the preheminence , and priority : who is the first and the last , the foundation , the beginning and the end. but thy saying if there be a priority , or posteriority of christ in the soul , certainly the scriptures hath it in the order of nature ; in this thou comest off but very saintly and dubiously , and bringest the controversy to no result nor clearness , but art confused ; for if there be a priority of christ in the ●oul , then it is not of the scriptures , it b●ing a priority of christ , who also doth by a supernatural influence shine on the understanding , &c. but in these matters much might be said , which time would fail thorowly to treat of . pr. the juditious will think you a pittifull object , who expose your self to shame and ludibrie , &c. answ. thy censure an● scorn herein i vallue not , it will fall upon thy own head , and theirs that have taken thy part herein . pr. without the sanctifying knowledge of christ , one may understand the scriptures without error and ●angling . answ. this is both erronious , and contradicts much that thou hast said before and after , which i need not very often repeat . pr. most men , have both preached the truths in the scriptures , and maintained them by writing , who never had any sanctifying knowledg of christ. answ. this is like the former , and that [ most men have preach●d truths in scriptures ] is too large a word , and contrary to what thou saidst before of other nations ; but what do these things tend to , but to set up unsanctified persons , to be preachers or priests : but too many there are of such already , for of them and their pollutions many are grown sick , and the earth will vomit them out , and all that seek to maintain them against christ and his kingdom , which he is setting up . pr. for judas , he preached the truths , &c. the scribes and pharisees that sat in moses seat preached truths ; whereas christ bad hear them , mat. . , , . answ. but doth this prove that judas had no sanctifying knowledg of christ ? herein hast thou erred ; for judas had part of the ministery , from which by transgression he fell , act. . , . so transgression was the ca●●e of his fall from the ministery , and that scipture , mat. . , , . proves not that christ bad them hear the scribes and pharisees , nor that they were true ministers of christ ; though wherein they sat in moses seat , and read or preached his precepts ( when in force ) they were to be obeyed , but christ reprehends them in many places for corruptions got in amongst them , contrary to the law , and for their vain traditions and prec●pts of men ; and therein they were not true ministers of the law , much less of christ. pr. some preached ch●ist out of envy and strife , and not out of love , &c. yet preached christ and the scriptures without errors , phi. . , , . shall we say they had the sanctifying knowledg of christ who had not love to him , who hath not good will to him ? answ. thou hast not proved that they preached christ and the scriptures without errors who were in envy and strife ; for they were guilty of error in the ground ( viz. envy and st●ife ) and where that is , ther 's confusion and every evil work ; in that christ was preached and his name published in those dayes , the apostles rejoyced ; but not in the envy and error , of such as preached him out of envy , who were not sanctified for such a work . pr. your reason that w●thout christ we can do nothing , is to be meant in a supernatural way . answ. is not that in a supernatural way , which is without error and jangling , and good and acceptable to god ? pr. if they believe them to b● true , do they not know them . answ. no , all that believe them to be true , do not know them ; for thou hast granted an historical faith of scripture . pr. he that hath heard , and learned of the father , cometh to him , joh. . . answ. but all that have read and heard scripture , have not heard nor learnd of the father ; nor come to christ. pr. none can know the truths of the scriptures without the sanctifying knowledg of christ. answ. this is according to what i say , and overth●ows very much of thy matter according as hath been largely proved before . pr. he will lead believers into all truths , this is the meaning ; that is , he will keep them from a total and final defection from truths necessary to salvation ; and lead them into truths , which are thus necessary , &c. answ. this acknowledges in part to the truth of what i have said , also , to the spirits leading into all truth ; yea , into all truths necessary to salvation : and then the spirit of truth is sufficient for us to depend upon , for this leading and preservation . pr , the disciples , all of them ( except judas ) had received the sanctifying spirit . answ how hast thou excepted judas from the sanctifying spirit , when he had part of the ministery , which his transgression was the cause of his falling from ? pr. they were all ignorant of the resurrection , and mistook the nature of christs kingdom ; as if it had been of this world , luk. . . act. . . the galatians who had received the spirit , yet were they led into error . answ. if they that had received the spirit might erre in these matters , much more they that had no sanctifying knowledg , which contradicts thy former ; of their preaching of truths without errors . pr. he did not tell them ye erre not having the spirit , but not knowing the scriptures . answ. the scriptures they could not truely know without some sanctifying knowledg of christ , as before confest , or of the power of god to salvation ; so their ignorance of the scriptures in a supernatural sence , was from their ignorance of the power of god , which unvails the heart to read and understand them . pr. for what ye say we plead for sin , it doth more duely fall on the doctrine that saith , believers may totally fall , as you say peter by his denial did , and david likewise by , &c. answ. nay , to say there are believers that may fall from grace ( who are not yet come to an established and grown state in the truth and power of god ) is no pleading for sin , as your doctrine contending and disputing for sin in all , term of life , especially , whiles we exhort all to watch and look dilligently to grace received , and withal warn them , &c. that such a falling away may be prevented ; for it was no pleading for sin in the apostles , to warn the churches by the example of some that fell , or of such as made shipwrack of faith and a good conscience ; or of such as drew back to perdition , denied the lord that bought them , and such whose latter end was worse then their beginning . but to charge us with saying , that peter and david fell totally ; this is a slander and forgery against us , as there are many more in thy bundle . pr. if our peace stood in our inherent righteousness , &c. in our good works , &c. answ. [ inherent righteousness ] are thy own words obtruded upon us , in thy own sence ( as imperfect ) and so in that sence not gods nor christs ; for in gods righteousness , received in christ by faith , our peace stands , and of this , the true believers are pertakers in them , they being in that living faith , the righteousness whereof is not devided from it . pr. davids peace stood not in the freedom from all sin , but in that god did pardon his sin ; and did not impute the same , rom. . , , . secondly , if none ever had , or shall have peace here on earth , but such as are in this life free from all sin ; then you alone may boast of it , &c. answ. he whose transgression is forgiven , the man unto whom the lord imputeth not iniquity , in his spirit there is no guile psa. . , . and david bid , mark the perfect man , and behold the upright ; for the end of that man is peace . and blessed are the undefiled in the way ; they also do no iniquity , &c. and in this state stood davids peace , contrary to what thou hast erroniously spoke of him here . secondly , and what thou hast said of our being free from all sin , that we alone might boast of it ; this thou dost not believe of us , and therefore hast ironically scoffed and jeered , contrary to thy own thoughts and intentions : and in implying none on earth free from all sin , hast again erred , and art herein sufficiently confuted allr●ady , thou having herein implyed , none here ever born of god , none here to abide in christ , or come to perfect holyness ; or to be washed from all sin by the blood of christ : so thy doctrine is contrary to the apostles . pr. for none either of the prophets , apostles , or saints , that we find in scriptures , ever were thus quallified for peace . answ. this seems to be a large and general charge against the prophets and apostles , who generally contrary to this doctrine testifyed unto the peace of god , which is perfect , which attends the righteousness ( or heavenly image ) of god , which is also perfect , and known in the new covenant , whereby he takes away sin , and establisheth his people in righteousness , and the prophets could testify that the lord was their righteousness , who wrought all their works in them , and to the true apostles , christ was made wisdom , righteousness sanctification ; so thou & you have shewn your selves ignorant of the scriptures , and of the prophets and apostles states and quallifications ; and what sin or sins they all had , which they ( or any of them ) were not freed from before death , is not yet proved by any of you , who are found in the work of the old accuser of the brethren . pr. sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of gods children , &c. except ye had made appear , that pauls will , and affections , and mind , were perfectly against sin : some stain and inclination to sin , by the contrary corruption still remained in some degrees in his will , mind , and affections , &c. answ. this is a sad accusation against all gods children againe , and what is this but a pleading for sin , and tending to strengthen the hands of evil doers ? what , all the faculties of gods children , having sin and corruption in them ? the priests were wont to tell of a regenerate part ; what part is it ? no faculty clean , sad newes ! thus to accuse pauls will , mind , and affections , as having corruption remaining still in them ; whereas his will was to the good , his mind and affections , were on things above ( when converted , and victory obtained ) and the vi●e affections and desires mortified , which they that are christs have crucified ; and his saying , with my mind i serve the law of god , but with my members the law of sin ; related to the state of his warfare , and shewes an opposition in his mind against serving sin : but thy doctrine signifyes thus much , as if he had said ; with my mind i serve sin , and with my members i serve sin , yea ; with my mind , will , and affections i serve sin , and the law of god both ; this were a serving two masters : and then where 's the contrar●e●y and opposition thou speakst of afterward . pr. i said , there was flesh and spirit in him , so that neither the operations of the flesh or spirit were compleat and perfect , because of the opposition they have one to the other , the flesh and spirit are contrary one to another . ans. thy making the opposition between the fl●sh and the spirit , and their contrariety one to the other , thy reason to prove that neither the operations of the flesh or the spirit were compleat and perfect , it proves the quite contrary ; for the spirits opposition to the flesh , and its contrary operation , proves that the spirits operation is pure and compleat against that which lusts against it ; and so against the fruits and works of the flesh , which are ( absolu●ly ) also opposite to the fruits of the spirit , yet they through the spirit , came to mortify those deeds and works of the flesh which were corrupt . pr. ye cannot do those things that ye would ; because he could not will them perfectly . ans. it s god that works in the believer , both to will and to do , and his work is perfect ; and to whose will , mans will ought to be subject . pr. if all the imperative faculties of the will and mind , and ( inferiour ) of the affections , be fully and strongly joyned for any action , the members of the body cannot but be obedientially , &c. ans. then such as have the mind of christ , whose wills and minds are subject unto his , as theirs whom he calls his brethren , and whose affections also are set upon things above , such have unity with christ and in their faculties ( as thou callest them ) and therefore their members must needs be obedientially subject , as theirs who are sanctified throughout , in body , soul and spirit . pr. what part of him did sin dwell in , if neither in his mind , conscience affections , &c. ans. he said , in his flesh dwelt no good thing , but it was not all his life time of continuance . pr. if you can find out any other faculty of the soul , which can be a seat for sin to dwell in , then these three ; the schooles will be beholding to you for your new philosophy . ans. we may therefore see what schooles and discipline you have , that would be beholding to us , to find out some other faculty of the soul for sin to dwell in ; but me-thinks thou shouldst intend better then thy words import , and have said : you would be bebeholding to us , to shew you another , which is no seat for sin , and that you should not seek for more room for sin , for it hath as much room amongst you as you can afford it , in all the facultys , both superior and inferior , both in the wills , minds and affections : but so it had not in the children of the light. pr. the pure protestant religion , which is held out from scriptures . answ. is that your pure protestant religion , that pleads for sin in all the facultyes of the soul ? an impure religion and doctrine of the ministers of sin , pure religion where it is , there 's a keeping unspotted of the world . pr. there is a righteousness of christs sufferings and merit imputed , &c. which begets peace , which may consist with sin in a believer , though thereby no condemnation to him . answ. christs righteousness is known to be pure and perfect , and not to consist with sin , for they are inconsistant , and the believer that 's come to a fellowship of christs sufferings , and a conformity to his death , to know his righteous will by faith imputed ; he walks after the spirit , not after the flesh , and to such there 's no condemnation , rom. . . pr. cleanse thou me from my secret sins . answ. then let not secret sin remain in me all my life time , let not sin and corruption remain in all the faculties of my soul so long as i live , pr. there is a righteousness which is the same with sanctification which is not perfect and compleat , therefore no man by this inherent righteousness is justified . answ. what righteousness ( and whose ) is it , which is the same with sanctification , which is not perfect ? is it christs yea or nay ? and , is sanctification imperfect in this life ? and , is this that thou callest inherent righteousness ? in this thou hast but acted the part of sathans m●ssengers , as hore-tofore , and contradicted the apostles doctrine , who preached to present men perfect in christ , and exhorted to purge themselves , from all filthiness both of flesh and spirit ( and so ) to a perfecting of holiness in the fear of god : and , was not christ made unto them , righteousness , sanctification , and redemption ? and is he devided or imperfect in what he is to the saints ? what grose and fa●se stuff hast thou implyed and vented ? and it was they that were washed and sanctified ; that were justified in the name of the lord jesus , and by the spirit of our god. see , cor. . . pr. you do not admit of this doctrine . your new light you pretend , is nothing but old damnable popery . ans. our new light ( as thou callest it ) is the light of christ , the same the apostles preached and bears witness to their doctrine against thine and the priests who oppose it : and its blasphemous and damnable in thee , to deem this our light , nothing but old damnable popery ; it will appear that thou art nearer popery then we , in thy contending for sin term of life , but onely thou tellest us not of a purgatory . pr , paul had victory begun but not compleated , except from the the condemning power of sin , but the reigning power and defiling , was not subdued totally , &c. ans. confusion : and contrary to pauls doctrine and state , to tell of victory , and yet the reigning power and defiling not subdued totally ; as much as to say , his enemy was conquered and yet reigned still ; whereas he said , he had fought the good fight of faith , and had kept the faith ; he was more then a conquerer through christ that loved him . and they to whom there was no condemnation were in christ , and walked not after the flesh , but after the spirit . and was there not such as were compleat in christ to whom paul wrote ; and dost not believe that he had attained to as high a growth as any of them to whom he writ or preached ; consider it . pr. in the present time , i am sold under sin , that good that i would do , i do not ; if he had spoken to their capacity as weak , he would have told them , he had been under such a condition , but he was delivered from it : when paul speaks of a condition wherein he was , he does not say , i am , &c. ans. paul did speak unto the romans after the manner of men because of the infirmity of their flesh , rom. . he did also signify the several states which he had passed thorow , as how it was with him before the law came , and how when it came , and his warfare , as also his deliverance ; so that i say again and still affirm , that paul could not be in all those states he mentions , or represents to the romans at one and the same time ( when he so writ , as in the present time ) as thou very blindly hast asserted , argued from hence , and caviled against the truth of what i said , and the most stress of what thou sayest for reason , or proof against me , is as much as a child might say that has learned his accidence , viz. that the present tense is not the preterperfect tense ; whereas if it must be taken for granted from thy feeble reason , that paul was in all those states at one and the same time , then he was both carnal sold under sin and yet spiritual , a faithful apostle that could preach in the fullness of the gospel ; as if carnal sold under sin , and spiritual , made free from the law of sin and death , by the law of the spirit of life were both one , but , to be carnal sold under sin was miserable bondage , not consistent with his saintship and spirituallity : and when he said , with me to will is present , but how to perform that which is good , i know not ; if that was his present condition , then ( as thou arguest ) because spoke as in the present tense ; then what did paul at that time in writing that epistle ? did he perform that which is good , yea or nay ? if he did , then knew he what he did ? or , did he do he knew not what in it ? surely thy doctrine doth strangly misrepresent and wrong paul , that servant of christ , and the lords-freeman , who knew the mysteries of christ , though sometimes , he became as weak to the weak , &c. but if it should be objected , as some vainly have done , that there was an unregenerate part in paul , of which he speaks in those cases ; then this would make much of his epistles to proced from an unregenerate or carnal part , which were gross and contrary to their own doctrine . and to that saying , if he had spoke to them as weak ; he would have told them he had bin under such a state , but he was delivered from it ; to the very same purpose he did speak to them , rom. . . for when we were in the flesh , the motions of the sins which were by the law did work in our members , to bring forth fruit unto death ; but now we are delivered from the law , that being dead wherein we were held , that we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter . so that its plain , he told them both of his captivity and of his deliverance , speaking in the fore-part of the chapter plainly in several things , with relation to what he was in the flesh in the time past , and also how he was delivered ; and so , both the body of sin and death , and the law of sin , he came to be delivered from by the law of the spirit of life in christ ; through whom also he was more then a conqueror . pr. how bold are you , charging the present time for the by-past , for which you have neither passage in that , nor any other scriptures , the sence of the words being all along in the present time , &c. answ. this is but like the former , from ignorance both of the scriptures and the apostles states , concluding them in all those sta●es wherein they personated themselves , either to represent what they had gone thorow , or the condition of others to whom they wrot or spoke ; but from this mans argument , where paul said , christ came into the world to save sinners of whom [ i am chiefest ] and the apostle james ; with the same tongue bless we god , curse we men , these things ought not to be ; this being spoken in the present time when they writ ; from this mans argument , paul was then the chiefest or greatest of sinners ; how was he then counted faithful and put into the ministery ? or was he the greatest or chiefest of sinners when faithful ? then who are the least of sinners if the faithful , such as are saved by christ be the chief ; and was the apostle james one that did curse men , when he exhorted against it , or what he said , had relation to them ( or some of them ) to whom he writ ? and pauls being the chiefest of sinners , to his being injurious and a persecutor before converted , or if the chiefest of sinners after conversion , and counted faithful ; what was he before conversion ? or if it was before ; then did he not amend and become better when he came to be converted , to receive grace and apostleship ? pr. as for that by gone state before he was begotten ; was he groaning under a body of death ? was he giving thanks for victory through jesus christ ? yet all these are knit together . secondly , if ye say it was a state after he was begotten of god , ye grant all that we affirm ; that a believer ever after he is begotten of god , is not free from sin. answ. this still depends on thy former errors and absurdities against paul , for groaning under a body of death for deliverance or victory , and giving thanks for victory through jesus christ , are two differing states , and not knit together as if they were one and the same condition ; how blindly and sottishly hast thou reasoned herein ? secondly , if we say it was a state after he was begotten , viz. that he was groaning for deliverance , we do not grant therefore that a believer ever after is not free from sin , as falsly and absurdly thou infe●rest upon us ; as if a believer had no growth nor encrease in faith and victory after begotten of god , which if it be thy belief , according as thy words imply , it is not ours ; for we know and believe a growing from strength to strength , and a revelation of gods righteousness from faith to faith in the true beleivers , and that by faith victory is obtained by degrees , with such as are begotten and born of god , whom the wicked one cannot touch ; and through faith in the power of god , everlasting salvation comes to be attained to by them ; such as keep the faith , and hold fast the profession of it without wavering . pr. they do not so perfectly mortify , as that there are no lusts in them ; otherwise it were to no purpose for peter to exhort the believing hebrews to abstain from their lusts . answ. nay , herein thou hast erred and perverted , and wronged peters end and intention , which is clearly against such as thou art , who plead for continuance of sin and lusts in them , which if they alwayes be to continue here , and cannot be abstained from as thou intimatest , then to what purpose was it for peter to exhort them to abstain from them , especially if he had been of thy faith that they could not , or had not power to abstain from lust , &c. but herein thou hast sufficiently discovered whose servant thou art . pr. when they are believers and begotten , they are so freed that the evil one cannot touch them . answ. much less lead them into sin , or keeps up the reigning power of it in them so long as they live : this contradicts all thy corrupt pleas and arguments for sin. pr. they do not fulfil its lusts , as to continue in sin wilfully and deliberately without repentance ; yet they are not freed from sin wholly . answ. yes wholly , when the wicked one hath not power to touch them . but thy saying they do not fulfil its lusts , as to continue in sin wilfully without repentance ; now may not this be taken that they do continue in sin , lusts , but not wilfully without repentance ; but do they sin wilfully with repentance ? hast thou cleared gods children herein ? whereas , such as walk after the spirit , shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh ; but are in that which mortifyes the vile affections and desires , and subjects the whole man to the will of god , viz. to righteousness and holyness . pr. in many things we offend all . answ. but not in christ the one thing ; for , he that abides in him sinneth not . pr. to be unblamable ; is that grace ? is universal in all parts of the renewed man , though not absolute , &c. to be unblameable and unreproveable , may stand with sins of infirmity . answ. to be unblameable , is to live as the grace teacheth ; namely , to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live godly and soberly in this present world : for sin and ungodliness is blameable and reproveable wherever it is , it being contrary to the grace and its teaching , which is absolute as well as universal in the renewed man , and is not consistent with sin , nor imperfect as you priests of scotland have rendered grace , faith , &c. as they among you formerly , that cursed every one that saith , faith is without sin , and would have all the people to say amen to it ; wherein your blind zeal out-runs your understandings , and made you discover your folly and madness , to set people on cursing ; yea , to curse such as held the truth , contrary to that doctrine , bless and curse not . pr. in the book of common prayer , there is a promise , to forsake the devil and all his works , the vain pomp and glory of the world , and sinful lusts of the flesh , and be led by gods spirit to keep his commandments : many of those who promise may do this , and keep it in the sence the scripture holds , that is ; that they shall disallow , purpose and endeavour against those ills . answ. so , here thou hast justified these promises , and many of those who promise as keeping it , that is ( sayest thou ) they shall disallow , purpose and endeavour against those ills , as if that purpose were a forsaking the devil and all his works , &c. the sinful lusts of the flesh , a keeping gods commandments , &c. when as thou hast denyed that any may attaine to such a state , but they must purpose and endeavour after it ; when as the promise is absolute , to forsake all sin , viz. all the works of the devil , and to walk in the commandments of god all their life . what a medly hast thou made here , like the time-serving priests ; that vindicate the common prayer and episcopacy , after they have denyed it , and many of them covenanted against it : we thought that the priests and kirk of scotland , had been more zealous and sincere in their way against the episcopal traditions , then thou hast here appeared : will the rest of thy brethren of the kirk of scotland own thee in this matter ? or art thou their mouth ; that thou takest upon thee , to be such a contender for the pure protestant religion ( as thou callest it ? ) but is that any part of your religion to tell of god-fathers and god-mothers ? and to cause t●em to promise and vow in the infants name , and for the i●fa●t ( as its surety ) to forsake the devil and all his wor●s , &c. all ●he sinful lusts and desires of the flesh , and to keep g●ds holy will and commandments , when you do not believe it possible so to do in this life . pr. as many who are commended for keeping his commands , their sins and failings are not-with-standing recorded . answ. sins and failings are not consistent with keeping gods commandments , sin being a transgression of the law ; which , when transgressed and failed of keeping , it is not kept then , nor the blameless state stood in . pr. you with gross subtilty bear out this sence ; that he who at his death is made holy , is made holy somtimes before his death . ans. he is sometime a dying before dead , if at their death , be upon their death or dying ( as thou sayest ) yea , some are many houres , having the symptomes and pangs of death upon them , before they are dead , and in this sence i supposed thou intendest , by saying at their death they are freed , &c. that it was upon their dying , when the throws or pangs of death are upon them ; or , when we commonly say a person is a dying , when he breathes very weakly , faintly , and sometimes with short breathings , a little before breath is quite gone , and then there must needs be a little space in this life , before the person is quite dead . pr. you might as well infer , if one should say , that at his death his soul aod body are separate ; that he said , they are separate sometime before his death ; at his death is meant immediatly upon his dying . ans. a false inference put upon my words , which doth not at all follow ; for when the soul and body are separate , or the soul is gone out of the body , this is after death , now upon dying is not after death ; for when the body is without the spirit it is dead ; so , if thou wilt have it , that when the soul and body are separate , the beleiver is then free from sin ; t is not in this life , and then ; where 's the popes purgatory ? and who is now guilty of damnable popery ? is this your pure protestant religion ? pr. i never found but that they ( viz. our brethren ) said , beleivers souls either at their death ( which is immediately upon their death ) or after death , are made perfectly holy and received into glory . answ. upon dying , and after death are two things , so it appears still you are devided somewhat in this point ; s●me of you saying , upon their dying , beleivers are made perfectly holy , others say , after death ; however by this we may observe that your doctrine tends to make people serve the devil ( by living in sin ) so long as they have any time and str●ngth , to do any service for him ; that is , till they can serve him no longer . pr. they may mean and understand , that the perfect holiness of both soul and body is not to be till the resurrestion ; which is nothing differing from that which i say ; i do not say that the body in the grave is capable of holiness till it be raised . answ. if this doth nothing differ from what thou sayest , it s very strange , didest not say a little before [ upon his dying ? ] what 's done upon his dying ? is he made wholy free from sin yea or nay ? if thou meanest onely the soul , that that 's onely freed from sin at death or upon dying , and not the body till it be raised ( as thou sayest ) then what becomes of the sins and impurity of the body in the mean time , or the defilments and pollutions thereof ? doth it dye with the body ( seeing the soul is pure when it ascends to god ? ) or if the body be not capable of sin in the grave ; then where is the being of unholiness and corruption to be done away , so long after death as is imagined ? or to say that perfect holyness of both soul and body , is not till the resurrection ; ( how long after death you know not ) doth not this make for the papists imagination of a purgatory ? for if the being throughly purged from all unholiness be not till after death , it must be some where ; but this your doctrine is cont●ary to the apostles , who said ; how can we that are dead unto sin , live any longer therein ? and being made free from sin , &c. he hath washed us from our sins in his own blood , &c. pr. from pro. ▪ it cannot be so properly said , the godly fall seven times into trouble and ri●e again . answ. yes , the godly falls into many troubles and afflictions ; but god delivereth them , out of them all . and he is with them in six troubles , and in seven he will not forsake them . and its plain from that of pro. . , . that the just mans falling sev●n times and rising again , is of another nature then the wickeds falling into mischief ; for in verse . , . its said , lay not wait ( o wicked man ) against the dwelling of the righteous : spoyl not his resting place : for a just man falleth seven times and riseth up again : but the wicked fall into mischief . it is not said ( as many of you have wronged the scripture ) that the righteous man sins seven times a day ; yea , some of the priests and professors , have not onely said so , but have also said ; that the most righteous man that is ( or ever was ) sins seven times a day , which is a deceit and corruption put upon scripture . pr. as for my saying a day , it was a mistake of the citation of the place , though it s not contrary to sence ; for christ saith to peter that he should forgive his brother seventy times seven times , which implyeth that a brother may offend in the day time . a. if he who is a brother may offend in the day time ; doth it therefore follow that all the godly or brethren do fall into sin seven times a day ? and wilt thou ( to serve thy perverse and corrupt end ) say , in that a brother may offend seventy times seven , therefore he sinneth seven times every day all his time ? surely thy implicite consequence , is a mistake and error ( and thou hast wronged the scriptures ) as well as thy citation of the place mentioned . but we see thou wilt stand by the devils cause , though thou comest never so feebly off ; yea , and fall with it . pr. i grant that the child of god cannot sin totally and finally and whoso doth it , is of the devil . answ. herein again thou hast wrested and added to the scripture , as often before , totally and finally are thy own words , and not the words of john , who affirmed , that he that 's born of god sinneth not ; neither can he : to say he that commits sin totally and finally is of the devil ; is this all the distinction of the devils servants and children , from the children of god ? how miserably hast thou pleaded gods childrens cause ? surely they have no reason to be beholding to th●e , but may justly exclude thee for wronging of them . pr. in the sence ye imply it , that he who sinneth at all , or in whom their 's any defect ; thus none living then ever knew or saw him : those who are commended for knowing him , sinned . secondly , job cursed his day , david , what sad falls he had is known , jeremiah , the apostles ; all of them . answ. that [ he ] that sinneth and is of the devil , and that [ he ] that sinneth not who is of god are two contrary births ( and that which is born of the spirit is spirit , as that which is born of the flesh is flesh ) which if thou knewest the difference of , and were seperated from the evil and joyned to the good , thou wouldest not go about to confound them , nor grosly to pervert the scriptures and to accuse gods birth , or child as thou hast done . secondly , and why doest thou not tell us of their deliverances as well as their falls , and of their conquest which ( by d●grees ) they obtained in their life time ? but this would make against thee and thy ill cause for sin and sathan , whose work thou art in . pr , you say a believer is free from all sin , which we suppose you meant of a believer from the very instant that he begins to be a believer ; as ye said , that the spirit cannot be united unto sin. answ. nay , it is not our principle that a believer , from the very instant that he begins to be a believer , is free from all sin ; thy supposition herein and much of thy matter grounded upon it is false , thou hast gone about to overthrow our principles , when thou art yet to learn what we hold in this matter : for a man is a believer whilst in the faith he is war●ing against sin , and waiting to obtaine victory over it , and to come into the glorious liberty of the sons of god : the victory is not obtained at the very first beginning of gods work in a soul , but by degrees through faith , which purifies the hearts of them that believe , and receive power in the light of christ and spirit of life , to become the children of god and of the light , which hath no unity with sin ; nor can have with persons , but as they forsake sin and come out of it . pr. as you contradict your self , so you do the truth ; for can sin be in any man , and the actions flowing , and the man not be sinful ? if sin be in a man , doth it not defile him ? answ. if the actions of sin be flowing from a man he is sinful , but there is a time when the beleiver warreth against sin , and can say as paul did , it s not i that sins ; but sin that dwelleth in me . and there 's a time wherein there be sins that do easily beset ; and when sin is presented in the temptation , when it is not yeilded unto but withstood , and by degrees overcome by faith , in the power of christ : but this is hid from all blind contenders for sin. pr. neither doth that passage which ye abuse ( it s not i but sin that dwelleth in me ) imply any thing of that kind that he doth not sin. answ. what is this less then to say , paul said not true , when he said , it s not i that sin but sin that dwelleth in me ? but to distinguish between the two s●eds and two births , that which did not sin , and that which did sin , it appeares thou knowest not , but art very ignorant , and blindly cavillest in many things . pr. god judgeth of his children that are thus devided , according to the better and sounder part , as is that of the spirit which is most prevailing with them , and unto which they do adhere ; and not according to the flesh which they renounce , and unto which they resist ; and which by little and little they overcome . a the spirit most prevailing in gods children , they adhere to it , and resist and renounce the flesh , and yet the flesh have the better ; what doctrine is this , and what contradiction ? and how doth this oppose the spirits sufficiency , and the end of their adhereing to it ; which is , that they may be thorowly sanctified both in body , soul , and spirit . pr. indeed you make your self a patron of sin , in saying , that the children of god when they come short of the good they would , and when they do the evil they would not , they do not sin : now whether you , or th●se you rail against , deserve to be accused as defenders of sin : you say that a believer , when he doth the evil he would not , he sinneth not : no more vile defence of sin imaginable , then to say , that peters denyal of christ with a curse , was no sin ; and davids adultery : whether he that acknowledgeth sin is in the godly , or he that sayeth the foulest sins are not sins ; because forsooth they may be warring against them ? answ. herein hast thou abused me , and sought to render me odious for that which is none of my saying , touching the children of god ; neither did i ever say , that doing evil is not sin , nor yet grant thy universal charge against gods children , of coming short of good and doing evil ; nor that all that paul writes of himself in that kind ; was then his present condition : herein hast thou but begged the question , and belied me in several things grounded upon thy misrepresenting our principles before ; and so the patron and vile defender of sin thou art , and not i ; who to defend it , hast in general accused all god children with sin term of life . neither did i ever say , peters denial of christ , and davids adultery , are no sins ; as here i am belied and slandered , by one in impudency , and the spirit of lyes : and as for peter and david ; where ever did they commit those sins after they had repented of them ? surely this instance is no proof that gods children must have sin ( or dare sin ) all th●ir life time : how-be-it paul was no defender of sin in saying , it s not i that sin , but sin that dwelleth in me [ by all which sin is still acknowledged to be sin ] and when they knew the warring against sin , and the travel in order to obtain victory , and coming into the state of the perfect birth ( that 's brought forth in the image of god ) they knew the difference between the two seeds in them , and a going on in the work of faith , till the old man with his deeds were put off , and the new man put on . pr. neither that of john. . i write unto you that you may not sin , prove that they were free of sin so as they did not sin ; for then why doth he subjoyn ( but if we sin , we have an advocate with the father ) thus you have wickedly separated what god hath joyned , christ was given for an advocate for the sins of those whom john calleth little children , and his own , which therefore were to be . an. johns writing unto them not to sin , surely was contrary to thy pleading for sin , for the very tenour of thy doctrine is contrary to his in this case . and what is it god hath joyned that ( thou sayest ) we have wickedly s●parated ? is it believers and sin , or the advocate and sin ? this were blasphemous to suppose or assert ; how grosly hast thou shewed thy selfe in this matter : and surely thou hast drawn but a bad consequence from johns saying , if any man sin we have an advocate , that therefore johns and the little childrens sins were to be , or that the devils work in part , remaines un-subdued in the children of god ; for john doth not say little children you have an advocate , and therefore your sins are to be , or the devils work must remain in you unsubdued all your life time , but i write unto you that you sin not , and if any man sin ( which is not every man is to sin ) we have an advocate with the father ; this is he that was to call and help them out of sin , and whose blood did cleanse from all sin , for john proposed a way and a remedy for them , to bring them out of all sin , but thou hast proposed a way tending to keep all people in sin all their days , who thus hast contended for the devils work , made such a sad consequence both of johns words , and of christs being an advocate , that therefore sins are to be . a monstrous inference . pr. that the devils work in part remains un-subdued in the children of god , appears by that paul saith to the romans , the god of peace shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , rom. . . an. that the god of peace should tread down satan under their feet shortly , is a proof against thy s●lf , and contradicts thy doctrine for the devils work remaining in the child of god ; for where satan is troden down und●r foot , dominion is obtained over him and his work . pr. we have peace , our peace stands in our justification , yet there are remains of sin within us which we are to mourn for . an. the saints peace stands in righteousness , which is not consistent with sin , which is the cause of mourning where it is not done away ; but thou hast confounded the state of peace , and the state of mourning , like one ignorant both of true peace , and of the effect of true sorrow and mourning . pr. we are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was elias , who had the spirit of god and peace to , and yet had matter of groaning even in those passions . an. the apostles instance of elias being subject to like passions , was in the case of praying for the sick , to shew how prevailing the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man is , jam. . , . which proves quite against thee , whilst thou accountest passions in the general as being sins , for passions are sufferings which may be of divers sorts , as that of sickness and others ; as also it is not true that elias was subject to that the priests are , whilest thou takest passions for sins , neither was he so passionate in that kind as to pl●ad and contend for sin as you do : more-over where it s said , that paul and barnabas said unto them ( that would have done sacrifice to them ) we are men of like passions with you , act. . they could not intend by passions , that they were men of like sins and transgressions with those heathens , as being such idolaters , or subject to cry up and worship men as gods , or to sacrifice unto them as they did to paul and barnabas , whom they termed mercurius and jupiter ; so in this thy error is sufficiently detected , who upon such a false ground ( rath●r then be silent ) hast pl●aded for the work of the devil . pr. here is another arminian and popish error , that believers fall away from grace totally . an. thou mightest as well have charged the apostles with an arminian and popish error , who held the same that we 〈◊〉 touching , falling away from grace , which many have been 〈…〉 ( though not all believers ) and therefore both peter and paul and others , did warn them in their epistles to the same purpose as we do , and both paul to the corinthians , and peter in his second epistle , chap. . as also that epistle to the hebrews , do largely prove our doctrine in this matter . pr. evil works come not from faith in the believer . an. if evil works come not from faith , then peter and david stood not in the faith wh●n they fell ; and this proves what i said of them , which thou hast reviled me for . pr. christ said to peter , when thou art converted , where you say , that peter was never converted before his repentance , but onely convinced , which contradicts that you said he erred from the faith : it s against christs prayer , saying , i have prayed for thee that thy faith may not fail : if he had not faith when christ spake these words to him , when thou art converted strengthen thy brethren ; onely do signify when he should be fully recovered . an. here thou fightest with thy own shadow , for it doth not follow that peter had no faith , when he was convinced before fully converted , and the words , when thou art converted strengthen thy brethren , are christs own words to peter , about which thou hast thus wrangled against me , which plain enough imply that there was somthing which was not of faith , that peter was to be converted from ; and faith is given in measure in the convinc●ment in order to a through conversion , as also thou grants that these words , when thou art converted , do signify when he should be fully recovered from the sad breach his fall made on his soul ; what a full recovery and yet the devils work remaining all his time ; what confusion's this ? and is the full recovery called conversion as thou sayst ? then you that contend for sins remaining all your life time , remain all your time in the unconverted state ; and that the desciples had som faith b●fore they we●e thus fully converted , is the thing which i have confessed , which still makes for what i say ; that there is a possibility of falling from the faith , before this work of conversion is fully wrought , and therefore the more need of being watchful and exercising that little faith recieved ; so that i do not maintain satans work , or say that he overthrew peters faith ●s falsly i am accused . pr. it is not sad doctrine ( as you say ) but comfortable , that a believer may fall , as david and peter , whereas he doth not fall wholly away . an. is this doctrine counted authentick or orthodox in the kirk of scotland , that it is not sad doctrine but comfortable , that a believer may fall , as david and peter did ? and do you propose this to your auditors as matter of comfort ? surely if you do , you are misserable comforters ; for to be comforted with telling them they may fall , as david and peter did , is to be comforted with denying christ , and commiting adultery , as it may be probable , too to many of your kirk take comfort in such things ; which whilst they do , your stool of repentance will not obsolve them , nor prove them to be in the faith , how-be-it a few line● before , in contradiction to thy self , thou confessest that peters fall did weaken his graces and cloud his comforts very much , and surely it was matter of sorrow , and bitter lamentation to him , as also was davids fall to him ; for which he suffered the terrors of the lord , and great sorrow and tribulation , as at large in his complaints and prayers may be proved . pr. what a brave patron of your cause are you , when in defence of this , that a believer may not sin ; ye say he may fall wholly away from grace . an. here thou hast grosly perverted and wronged my words , for that some believers may fall , is not my defence to prove that they may be fully restored and perfected , so as not to sin ; but that there is a state in which t is possible for some to fall away from g●ace , wh●ch is before they come to that perfection and safety that answers the end of their faith and praying , &c. this cuts off much of thy cavilling frothy false accusation . pr. ye ask if i can instance in peter or david any thing ( viz. sin ) before their death ( which they were not freed from before their decease ) answ. though i could not instance gross falls of such a foul nature , yet they have their failings ; esiah an old prophet , subject to like passions that we are ; peter walked not with a streight foot , david saith , if thou enter into judgement , &c. an. here thou hast gone about to accuse david , and elias , and peter with failings till their death , but in proving thy charge com●s very faintly off , for that of passions is answered before ; and what thou sayest of peters not walking with a streight foot ; was that till death ? or did he so walk all his life time ? surely thou hast herein greatly wronged peter and the rest of them , and though there be a time and a state wherein , if god enter into judgment who can be justified , yet there is a state wherein his people are redeemed through judgment , and purged , by the spirit of judgement and burning . pr. you maintain that a believer from the first sinneth not . an. thy accusing of me with maintaining that a believer is freed from all sin , from the first time he is a believer , is a falshood and an abuse put upon me ; for he is a believer before he obtain victory , and is taught to believe in the light , that he may be a child of the light , and so become born of god. pr. you do symbolize with the papists , saying believers are freed from all sin ; which yet they do not hold of all believers , but of some of their perfectionaries . ye say ye do not hold merit or purgatory . an. nay , thou hast symbolized with the papists , who hast pleaded for sin till death , and said also that perfect holiness both of soul and body , is not to be till the resurrection , when that shall be thou knowest not , which ( as before was answered thee ) makes for their imagination of a purgatory ; but if the papists hold that some believers are free from all sin and perfected in this life , therein they outstrip thee and the priests , who would exclude all believers from perfection and freedom in this life . pr. ye say that all men have a like light and grace , some do attain to salvation , others not , which proceedeth not from any difference of grace given by god , but that others have better improven the light given to all , which improvement must indeed come from free will. ye hold merit . you are not so ingenious as papists . an. concerning grace being given alike to all , if thou intendest in measure or quantity , thou hast vainly made repetitions without ground against us ; but as for the improvement of the grace it comes not from free will , as falsly thou hast said , but from the capacity the creature is put into by the grace it self ; for mans will is not made free of it selfe , but by the grace or power of god , which worketh in man to will and to do : but and if somes not attaining of salvation , is because it s either from a difference of the grace given by god , or for want of sufficient grace given by him ; according to thy doctrine , then this charges the fault upon god as being partial , and the occasion of some mens destruction , contrary to that saying of the prophet , he willeth not the death of a sinner , but rather his return , &c. pr. that the light that christ enlighteneth all men with , is sufficient for the knowledg of the mysteries of the kingdom , is contrary to scriptures . an. nay , it is not contra●y to the scriptures , that the light of christ in men , is sufficient for the knowledg of mysteries of the kingdom savingly , in that t is sufficient for believing , leading out of darkness and to receive the light of life . and they from whom god hath hid those mysteries , are such as disobey the light , and shut their eyes against it , as christ said , their eyes have they closed , &c. least they should see , and be converted and i should heal them . all which doth evidence the defect and fault not to be in the light of christ , but in them that disobey it . pr. the natural man cannot know the things that are of god , he hath no sufficient light to know that which he cannot know . an. that therefore he hath no sufficient light , is no true consequence ; for then by this , none have light sufficient whilst in the natural state , which all are in before they are made spiritual ; thy consequence had onely held to prove the light insufficient , if thou couldest have proved that they that are in the fallen and natural state cannot be changed , nor restored into a spiritual state [ but this were gross to affirm ] for as man is natural he cannot know the things of the spirit , bu● the spiritual man doth . pr. the jewes that had the outward meanes shut their eyes against it , neither doth it mean of the light of christ within , except onely the light of nature . an. the jews had not onely an outward meanes , but also an inward light , the good spirit of god given to them though they rebelled , and the word nigh them , in their hea●ts , &c. which was not a light of nature ; herein thou hast greatly erred ; and would christ have reproved any for shutting their eyes against that which is natural and insufficient , and made that the cause of their not being converted and healed ? see mat. . thine and the priests darkness and ignorance in this matter ; how great is it ! pr. the kingdom of god being righteousness , peace , joy in the holy ghost , no man that hath not the sanctifying spirit , hath it or had it within him ; no peace nor joy in the wicked . an. the kingdom of heaven was in the pharisees or jews as christ said , the kingdom of heaven is within you , luk. . . when they were unsanctifyed ▪ though they were not come into it , nor to attain to the righteousness and peace of it , for that 's attained to by such as are translated out of darkness into the light , for all that have a true light and seed in them are not in it . pr. the light of the scriptures is a light shining in a dark place , pet. . an. the light that peter directed them to , was the more sure word of prophecy , pet. . and was that the scriptures of the prophets ? or did that light come from them ( or from christ ? ) if so ; then , why were they not directed to the scriptures of the apostles ? or , were the scriptures of the prophets more sure then the apostles writings ? surely the light which leads to the day star arising in the heart , thou art exceeding ignorant of , and thy darkness may be felt . pr. how gross pelagionisme is that , the same light which was sanctifying to others that obeyed , was condemning to judas and cain : is gods revealing of those things and hiding of them , the same sanctifying light and illumination ? an. god who reveals those things to the obedient that he hides from the disobedient ; this plainly contradicts thee and thy former words , for god is still the same light , and it is the spirit of truth that sanctifyes and justifyes the righteous or obedient , that reproves the world of sin , &c. and this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world and men love darkness rather then light , &c. joh. . so in this matter thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the scriptures . pr. where there are many words of god , being taken together they are called the word of god. an. thou mightest as well say , that many words and one word are both one ; where provest thou thy assertion ? for in contradiction to this presently after , the scriptures call christ the word of god in some places , and sure the scriptures and christ are distinguished ; they are not christ. pr. k. . . that there is no man liveth and sinneth not . it doth not say , there is no man liveth and hath not sinned . an. he that abideth in christ the second covenant sinneth not but is redeemed out of that state in which there is no man that sinneth not , and john said , if we say we have not sinned we make him a liar , &c. joh. . . pr. their begetting is in order of nature before their faith . an. whe●e provest that ? is begetting in the unbelief then , and not in the faith whereas the word which begetteth is the word of faith and profits not where t is not mixed with faith within . pr. those of your way have held out to the world , that to have hebrew greek and latine , is a mark of antichrist . an. thou hast often wronged those of our way , as thou hast in this , wherein thou art answered at first . pr. those who tell us of a faith in christ without the scriptures , have no light in them . secondly , there are many things which we think and desire against the law , which the light within would never have discovered if there had not been the knowledg of the law contained in the scriptures . an. are all unbelievers then , and have no light in them but who have the scriptures ? thy blindness in this is detected before : and , what contradiction is it to tell of some having no light in them , when before thou hast confessed all men to have a natural light , or the light of a natural conscience in them ? secondly , and was it the scriptures or the law as it is in the letter that discovered to paul his sins and desires , or the law inward ? for he had the law outward , before he knew or was turned to the law in his mind , or was cl●arly convinced in hims●lf . pr. did ever the prophets or apostles try the doctrines of persons deluded by satan , with the spirit without the scripture , deut. . an. the prophets and apostles had the spirit , and knew its sufficiency before they gave forth scriptures , and these were not deluded by satan as falsly thou hast accused us to be . an. have not some of your way been so blasphemous as to aver jesus christ to be a type , as to call themselves the messiah to whom hosanna should be said . an. i know none in our way , that either calls themselves the messiah or that own such a thing , but co●fess to jesus christ as b●ing the substance , and the end of types shadows and figures ; but as for those whom thou hints of , about their saying hosanna , they were not in our way but testified against , and some of themselves came after to see , confess and repent of their error , so to upbraid us with any one 's failings or miscarriage , espetially when t is both disowned and testifyed against by us , this is both unequal and unjust ; and wouldest thou be so dealt by if i should go to reckon up how many drunken and whoreing priests th●re be , and should charge all of you and your whole kirk with their wickedness ; wouldest thou take it well ? which indeed i might better do , whilest such are owned and upheld as teachers of others among you , th●n thou mights accuse us with persons and actions , that are cast out from amongst us . pr. what is the rule whereby the motions of the spirit are to be tryed whether they be such , or the motions of satan and our deceitful hearts ? ye answer the spirit is the rule , but this cannot be ; for the spirit hath given the scriptures . secondly , neither is that place which ye cite to the purpose , ( viz. the anoynting teacheth all things ) for though he teach it is by this rule . an. yes , the spirit of god is sufficient , a rule sufficient both to try the motions of satan , and your deceitful hearts , it searcheth all things ; the lord searcheth the hearts and tryeth the reines , telleth unto man his thoughts . and if the anoynting within teacheth of all things ; must the scriptures be a rule to the anoynting , that thou seemest to tye it to the scriptures ? or , is not the teaching of the anoynting scripture , as well as it was in them that spoke scripture from it ? or , must not people believe the anoynting , till they have searched the scriptures to try it by them ? if so , then when the anoynting would tell and shew them their perticular states , and thoughts , and motions , which the scriptures do not tell them , nor perticularly charge upon them , then they are not at all in such cases to believe , nor follow the anoynting according to thy doctrine ; and what is this but to set up the scriptures above the anoynting , and the letter above the spirit , which is a gross error , and bespeaks great ignorance . pr. in the synod at jerusalem , act. . the apostles searched the scriptures for what they determined , before they said , it seemed good to the holy ghost and us . an. where provest thou that they searched the scriptures for what they determined , before they said , it seemed good to the holy ghost and us ? doth not this plainly confute thee , that what they said was from the holy ghost ? and , was not its teaching their rule then ? and , what scripture had they then to forbid circumcision as they did ? nay , had they not scripture ra●her for it ? if then they had not scripture to forbid it , they should not have d●nied or forbid it , nor have believed the holy ghost in this case ; by thy doctrine , what silly work hast thou made on 't ; and , how hast thou broken the neck of thy own cause ? pr. the gift of discerning of spirits was a peculiar gift given but to some , but this was not for tryal of doctrine : none who had that gift of discerning of spirits did try any truths or doctrine , or practice , but by the scripture . an. this is a strange doctrine , that they must onely try spirits by the gift or spirit of truth , and not any truths or doctrine ; whether is greater , the tryal of spirits or of doctrines ? wh●reas the spirit search●th all things , and is a spirit of true judgment , that giveth true understanding ; but according to thy false doctrine that none who had discerning of spirits did try any truths or doctrine , or practice , but by the scriptures : then by this , when the apostles in their epistles writ divers things that were not before in the scriptures , they were not to be believed by them in the churches that had the gift of discerning , and when the spirit of truth shall lead to speak or prophesie concerning a perticular place , people or nation , that which they have no scripture for , this therefore is not to be believed for want of scripture to prove it by . thy ignorant and sottish stuff which also excludes all those books and prophesies of the holy men of god spoken of , which are not record●d in the bible . and those of our friends , which foretold of the late calamities befallen the city of london , both that of the ●lague , and that of the fire , which were both fore-seen and fore-told , yet they had no scripture to prove it ; but alass , such as thou are silly and shallow in these matters , being but as those seers and watchmen that are blind , who would insinuate into people , that both prophesying , visions and revelations are ceas●d , and lay all upon the scriptures ; and then how know you the doctrine contained in them to be true without the spirit . pr. ye say ; must the scriptures be the rule to discern or try false spirits when they speak scripture ? ans. when the devil spake scripture to christ , he confuted him by scripture , which shewed he had perverted them ; and so he confounded the scribes and pharisees alwayes . an. but could not christ discerne the devils spirit without the scriptures ? what gross error and ignorance is implyed and couched in this thy impertinent answer ! thou tellest us christ confuted him by the scripture , which was when the devil brought scripture words to back his temptations withal , which is not an answer ; besides the devils tempting christ in these words , command that these stones be made bread ; and , cast thy self down , &c. were not scripture , but he falsly went about to have backed them with scriptures , contrary to the end and intent of the scriptures . pr. you answer blasphemously , that they thought to have eternal life in the scriptures , as if our lord jesus christ was fomenting them in a deceit of their own hearts , in bidding them search the scriptures , for to find him in them , and so eternal life . an. thy charge against my answer is false , and i vallue it not , that christ should bid them search the scriptures to find him in them ; this is a strange doctrine and worse then the former , to lay that upon christ which he never intended nor spake ; his words were not that they might find christ in the scriptures , nor eternal life , but in them ye think to have eternal life , whereas they would not come to him that they might have life ; and so , doest thou think that christ that dyed at jerusalem , was to be found in the scriptures ? pr. that christ has paid a ransome for those that wilfully trample under foot the blood of the son of god , those places are understood by you , of every individual person in the world , that he tasted death for them is false , contrary to the scriptures , and maketh the death of christ to be vain , and exalteth free will. an. what we understand of those places of scripture , is neither false nor contrary to the scriptures , as falsly and erroniously thou hast accused us ; for that christ died for all that were dead in sins , tasted dea●h for every man , gave hims●lf a ransom for all , is the propitiation not for our sins onely , but for the sins of the whole world , is plain in the scriptures , which ignorantly thou quarrels against . pr. if christ did pay a ransom for the soul of judas , he hath redeemed him ; those for whom he hath given himself , he redeemed from all iniquity , but the damned and reprobates are not redeemed : those for whom christ came , he is a saviour unto , and saveth them from their sins : how are they lost if he came to save them ? but this argueth either defect of wisdom , that he did not foresee such an intention of his death would prove frustrations , or else want of power to effectuate his intention of saving them . an. christs absolute intention and will is not made voyd , nor wants he power to effect it , but such an intention we did not lay upon his death to save all : and as for the death of christ and his intention of saving , being made vain and frustrations , either from defect of wisdom or want of power , these are both false ; for his intention therein , consists with his good will and freeness towards all , for i did not say that his intention was absolute to save all , but i do say , it was an intention of good to all , according to the good will of god towards all , who willeth not the death of sinners but rather that they may return and live . but christ in his suffering and death was passive , and the putting forth of his power to save such as are saved , stood not barely therein , though his good will therein appeared , but we are saved by his life . but are the damned and reprobates such , because ordained of god so to be , or because christ , died not for them ( according to thy doctrine ? ) and so ; must the cause of their destruction be laid upon god and christ , or upon them for rej●cting free grace , resisting the councel of the lord , not liking to retain god in their knowledg , and trampling under foot the blood of the son of god ( as thou hast confessed before ) to thy own contradiction , who so much hast cavilled against us , for confessing to the free grace of god , and christs dying for all ( or every man ? ) but this is like your pitiful narrow , and partial presbiterian spirit and principle ; that would so limmit god in the dispensation of his grace , and tye it up in such a nar●ow compass ; and , what was the cause of judas his fall ? and , who was the authour of his transgression ? was god or he to be blamed therein ? and , had not he grace given him before , seeing that by transgression he fell ? will thy telling us so often of judas clear thee or confute us ? how silly a●d weak hast thou shewed thy self in this matter ? pr. those [ all ] for whom he dyed cannot be meant of every individual person , for they live to him , and not to themselves ; but the wicked that perish live not to christ. secondly , neither would christ ev●r give himself , his blood a ransom for them , for whom he would not pray ; but he saith , he prayeth not for the world , joh. . an. thou hast herein wronged the scripture , and erred ; for it is not all for whom christ died that live to him , for , cor. . chap. & ver . , . if one died for all , then were all dead , and that he died for all , that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him which died for them , and rose again . now they which live unto him , are not those ( all ) for whom he died . and christ praying not for the world at that time , . john . is no argument that he did not give himself a ransom for all ; for though at that time he prayed not for the world , but for the disciples or such as were chosen out of the world ( who were in the world before they were chosen out of it ) yet at other times he did pray for his persecutors , and such as were of the world ; as also exhorted his to pray for their enemies and persecutors , &c. pr. judas never got saving grace , nor that same grace that peter got , and therefore could not reject it . an. judas had part of the ministry that the other apostles had ; and , did not that proceed from saving grace ? or , what grace ? ( how blind art thou ! ) and wherefore was judas condemned then ; was it because god refused to give him saving grace , or for his own transgression ? pr. the scriptures import that christ is a propitiation for all the elect which are called all the world . an. john said , he is the propitiation for our sins ( and were not they the elect ) and not for ours onely , but for the sins of the whole world . must we believe thy meaning contrary to the very words of scripture , or were the whole world all the elect ? how hast thou wrested plain scripture herein ? pr. who is it , that hath put the difference betwixt peters believing , from judas mis-believing ? whether it be gods grace to peter denied to judas ? an. where provest thou it was denied to judas , or that judas had no part of the same grace ? for before thou sayest wicked men have the common work of the spirit ( but in contradiction sayest ) which is not supernatural , from rom. . . were th●y then wicked men spoken of there , which did by nature those things contained in the law , and shewed the work , or effect of the law written in their hearts ? what then are they that rebel against the law , if they that obey it be wicked ? whereas the apostle saith , before , that the doers shall be justified . see how thou hast brought forth one error and falshood upon another . pr. is not the father distinct from the son and the spirit , in the personal subsistance ? an. where learnedst thou these words ( the father distinct from the son and spirit in the personal subsistance ) these are not the words of scripture , or the words of scripture clearly conferred together , as thou sayest after , but in contradiction after , thou sayest , although the scripture doth not in so many words make mention of three persons , who are one god , and three distinct persons , and that these cannot be three , if they be not distinct ; for where there is no distinction , there is perfect oneness , &c. what 's the consequence of this , but that therefore there is not perfect oneness in the deity or god-head ; because , three distinct persons ( or three distinct one from another in personal subsistance ? ) is this good doctrine ? is not that oneness between the father and the son perfect ? and , did not christ say , i and my father are one , and prayed that his might be perfect in one , as he and his father were one ? and though thou hast said , you disalow all traditions , or any written rule which is not scripture , and yet thou wilt use words and distinctions , which are not scripture according to thy own confession ; ( what confusion art thou ●n ! ) for whereas i answered thee , that we own what the scriptures of truth assert of the god-head , viz. that there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the spirit , and these three are one , &c. ( and thou thy self in the next page sayest , that both the father , the son , and the holy ghost , are a spirit ) howbeit , my honest answer in scripture words would not satisfy thee , but thou hast villifyed and abused me in this matter , in several reproaches and slanders , as with shameless rayling and deriding , &c. with grose evasion , with not being able to answer thee , with not owning what the scriptures assert , and with blaspheamous fancyes , blaspheaming jesus christ , &c. all which accusations i utterly deny as thy malitious lies and slanders against me ( and thy bundle is stuffed with many more of like nature ) and if thou didst not propound any of those quarrels as not knowing the answer of them , as thou sayest , &c. then , didest thou propound them to cavil , and get some advantages to carp at ? for thou hast shewed thy self in prejudice against us , and hast reckoned me ( or us ) as wanting learning , &c how-be-it thou hast shewed such learning as thou hast to confute me , with broken school phrases and words , with some few fragments , and traditional distinctions patched up together , which we can have no scripture for , but thy consequences , which much might be said to shew the weakness and shallowness thereof . pr. those who had christ the living bread , yet were partakers of the outward bread , as the disciples were ; were not the corinthians saints ? &c. an. that the disciples had outward bread ; who denies ? but that it was to continue alwayes of necessity , as an ordinance after christ , the living bread and life was received in them , ( which is the substance ) that 's not yet proved , that the disciples were to shew forth the lords death till he come in the observation of the bread and cup ( or supper ) i grant : now what , and when that coming was , is the matter in controversie . christ came after , when he was arisen , was apparent ; he also spiritualy came , and was more fully revealed within the saints , and was their living bread and life ( as thou grantest ) now when he was with the disciples at supper ( before he was crucified ) he intended by his coming , a third coming , till which they were to do it , which coming not being in their dayes , nor is yet ( by your doctrine ) this is no where proved in scripture as we know . pr. were not the corinthians saints , called in christ ? and yet the apostle , cor. . he gave them the bread and cup which christ gave to his disciples , the night he was betrayed . secondly , and whereas ye say , that christs coming again was when he rose again ; how false is this and absurd , &c. an. that 's very strange doctrine , that the apostles gave the corinthians , the bread and cup which christ gave to his disciples the night he was betrayed ; where was it kept in the mean time , that they both should have the same bread and cup , the one so many years after the other ? where hast thou learned this , amongst the popish traditions and reliques ? but t is probable thou meanest other-wise then thy words import . secondly , and is it false and absurd to say , that christs coming again was when he rose again ? did he not come again after he rose ? and must that be reckoned for no coming ? and a third coming which is not yet ; and , was that an outward coming till which the disciples and corinthians were to continue the bread and the cup , whereas that coming is not yet according to thy doctrine ? the apostle to the corinthians told them what christ did and spoke to the disciples in the case , but we read not that he imposed it upon them , to continue it all their time , or till a supposed coming of christ , which is not yet come , for he said to them , the cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the blood of christ , the bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of christ , and , was not this the substance ? where then remained the necessity of the shadow , or outward representations ( or mementoes as some calls them ? ) and , when was the church to shew forth the life of christ , and by what , if all their time they must needs ( and people still ) shew forth or represent his death , and him as suffered ( as thou sayest ) by bread and wine ? doth not the substance end the shadows ? and , where have you any example in scripture , for the manner of your administring bread and wine at certain times a year , and calling it a sacrament , the lords supper ? &c. pr. the apostle telleth that the corinthians were to shew forth his death till he came again , so it behoved to be such a coming again as was yet future , and unaccomplished in the corinthians time : the bread and cup spoken of to the corinthians , behoved to be outward bread as shewing forth his death . secondly , because it was the same that christ took and devided , and gave to his disciples . an. what confusion's here ! were they to use the outwa●d bread and cup after they were dead then ? if they were to observe it to a coming unaccomplished in their tim● . and if it was the same that christ devided and gave to his disciples ; was that the outward bread so given to both ? or , was there not more in christs words then the outward observation ? what was his body and his blood , and the cup of the new testament in his blood , and the f●uit of the vine in the kingdom ; was it not spiriritual , a mystery , which the outward bread , cup and passover were but as signs or shadowes of ? pr. there is no such passage written , that christ appointed it to be taken away by his suffering . an. as oft as they did it , it was to shew the lords death till he came ; what coming , and when was it , or is it to be he intended ? wa' st a first , or a second , or a third ? and was it inward or outward ? pr , neither is the bread and wine a shadow . secondly , for he being present , and it representing him ( as suffered , it cannot be called a shadow as of things to come ) an. is the bread and wine the substance then ? this is popish , thus to deny the ●read and wine to be a shadow , and worse then the episcopals that tell us of their sacraments being outward and visible signes , of an inward and spiritual grace . secondly , if christs being present makes bread and wine no shadow , or not figurative , then by the same reason the passover which the disciples prepared ( to answer that part of the law ) was not a shadow , nor circumcission , offerings , &c. when done either for christ or in his presence , which to affirm and make that the reason , were grose and absurd , whereas the mystery , substance , or end , was not so fully manifest , when christ was outwardly present ( before his being offered up ) as after when they were indued with power from on high , received the promise of the comforter , came to eat his flesh and drink his blood , which saying , the disciples for a time ( when he was with them ) were troubled at , and counted hard . pr. it concerneth all who own the doctrine contained in the scriptures , though they be for baptizing with sprinkling , to propound a query to men that do with sacrilegious boldness , take away the ordinances instituted by christ unto believers . an. is it not then sacrilegious boldness for thee and the priests to teach ( or impo●e ) sprinkling infants , which is neither a doctrine contained in scriptures , nor a baptizing believers , howbeit , such a great stress hath been laid on the scriptures before as being the rule and means for faith , and salvation , revealing the mystery , for receiving life e●ernal in them , christ in them , &c. yet we find not sprinkling i●fants in the scriptures neither by command nor practice , though so much pleaded for by one here that tels us , pag. . they disallow all traditions or any unwritten rule which is not scripture ; but sprinkling infants is not scripture but onely a tradition of men : and one main plea for it is , that infants baptisme was approved and practised in the orthodox church of christ , &c. which is just like the papists and jesuits plea , to believe as the church believes ( taking it for granted that the church is pure ( as he saith ) orthodox in all her traditions ) whether they be scripture yea or nay ; whereas before , all traditions or any unwritten rule which is not scripture are disallowed , but instead of scripture for proof in this matter , we have mention made of the teachers and guides of the church ( as he calls them ) as tertullian , cyprian , who lived about . after christ , and lactanctius that lived about the year , . as also the latter sound fathers ( as he calls them ) as augustin , jerom , bassil , ( viz. their being for infants baptisme ) but what proves all this from scripture ( if it be as he sayes they did ) must we take it up upon an implicite faith , because such and such approved of it ? and yet at other times , lay such a stress on the scriptures as the perfect rule of obedience of faith , &c. how hath e. i. undervallued the scriptures in this matter , and spoyled his own cause touching them ? and , do not the papists plead for their traditions and ceremonys against protestants and others , in like manner as he hath done in this cause ? and , would he be willing to accept their arguments against protestants , when they are of the same nature , and bear the same face with his in this point ? pr. that the covenant abraham and his seed was under , was the same in substance , with that which believers now and their seed are under ; and therefore the children of believers should be under the initial seal of the covenant as abrahams were . an. where provest thou by scriptures , that sprinkling infants is the initial seal of the covenant ? ( or that ti 's so called ) thou herein doest but beg the question , and takest it for granted that it is the initial seal of the covenant of grace , ( which i deny ) and then from thence fallatiously drawes thy inference and conclusions , for its being to believers seed as abrahams children ( to wit the males were circumcised ) and that the covenant abraham and his seed was under , was the same in substance with that which believers now , and their seed are under : but what of this ; if it be granted , it was gods covenant or promise ; must they therefore be under mans tradition ? which sprinkling infants is , ( to plead for it from believers being baptized , is to ground it upon that , you ( priests ) are out of the practice of ) so as to that it 's not pertinent to dispute with such about it , who own it not in practice , but onely talk of it for a cover to a popish tradition , and thereby shew their hypocrisie the more ; and , must now sprinckling infants stand for the substance , or antitype instead of circumcision ? or , was circumcision the type of infants baptizme ( so called ? ) whereas sprinckling infants hath neither the true form nor matter of baptisme [ outward ] in it , for in the next page it 's confessed , that the word in the first language signifying baptisme is rendered washing , mar. . , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , afterwards it 's said , that being washed all over , best signifies our inward renovation and burial with christ , and thus contradictions and confusions are heaped up in many places . and to my saying , that it s not commanded under the new covenant to baptize infants , thou replyest the apostle peter , act. . , . sayes , that those to whom that promise that god would be their god , and the god of their seed , should be baptized , but to believers and their seed , he saith that promise belongeth , &c. now let the reader but peruse that scripture mentioned by thee , and compare thy fallacious arguing from it ; for peter said , ver. . repent and be baptized every one of you , &c. were they infants such as the priests sprinkle , that he bid repent ? how grosly hast thou perverted scripture ! and ver. . the promise is to you and your children , and to all that are a far off , even as many as the lord our god shall call . now , what can be inferred from hence for sprinkling infants ? were all they whom god should call infants when called ? or , did peter intend they should all have their children sprinkled before they were called ? but in contradiction afterward thou sayest , though there be no express command , yet it s of divine institution and warrant , if it be drawn from good consequence from the scripture , indeed i have seldom met with any that have appeared so impertinent and ridiculous in their consequences , as thou hast done in this matter , though thou countest thy consequence of divine authority , as well as express commands ; but they bear no such authority with us , who see thy perverting and abusing scriptures to maintain , and patch up a popish tradition and humane invention , which thou hast no express command for ; and then thou hast in this doubly confuted thy self , for is there some command of divine authority now which is not scripture , when before thou laid such a great stress upon scripture and deniedst revelation immediate teaching , &c. from the light within and hast dirided it under the name of enthusiasme , when now thou pleads for something being of divine authority which is not scripture viz your sprinkling infants , which in page . thou sayest brought to the church , is the ordinary way of putting on christ , and ordinary means for salvation ; and sayest we are baptized into jesus christ and his death , from , rom. . and . whereas before , the scriptures were cryed up as the ordinary way and meanes , &c. but now , that which no where the scriptures repuires , and that of , rom. and . so many of us as where baptized into jesus christ , were baptized into his death ; how impertinent is this for thy turn , as if sprinkling did baptize infants into the death of christ , or as if the apostles and believers then were so baptized , when infants ( as thou pleadest ) which is absurd to imagine , and i should think thou canst not really intend such a thing in this proof as sprinkling infants , which thou wouldest also make us believe is a standing ordinance of christ to continue till the end of the world from , mat. . and , mar. . . where they are commanded , to teach all nations baptizing them . and , he that believes and is baptized shall be saved . but did th●y go to teach infants of a week old ? or , were such the believers that were baptized ? how blind , sottish , and ridiculous hast thou appeared in this matter , as also in counting it one while the ordinary meanes for salvation , or that which baptizeth into the death of christ ; another while as in the thirty eight page that which signifies our putting on christ , inward washing , &c. so here it doth but signify inward washing , and therefore is not the putting on christ ; not that which brings into the church , neither doth it really signify inward washing , for thou speakest , as that being washed all over best signifies our inward renovation ; and one while , pleads for this thy pretended great ordinance , as belonging to the seed of believers , and of such as have received the spirit ; another while the children of which are prophane , and drunkards that profess the gospel , whom thou sayest are in this sence accounted believers , and thirty ninth page reckons it not needful for ministers to be perswaded that they are righteous , so it appeares such ministers as thou art will be easily satisfied for their own ends , and upon slender grounds receive men as believers , if they do but profess the gospel though they be drunkards and prophane and thus the parish priests of the presbyterian gang have deceitfully daubed their h●arers , and acted like hypocrites towards those whom they knew to be drunkards , prophane , and so really unbelivers , unholy unrighteous , &c. yet if they will from their teeth outward , say they believe and profess the gospel , though they be known to the contrary , the priest will not deny them their seal of the covenant to their children [ though they deem them unholy also ] which other whiles they deem as such a sacred thing , as onely belongs to the seed of believers , and such as are within the covenant . and another sorry shift and come off , in the thirty eight page is concerning the jewes that fell into gross sins , who all drank of the rock , which was christ , from hence thou sayest , that to profess christ is called a drinking of christ , and where provest thou that doctrine , that to profess christ is a drinking of christ , this is a very easie way thou hast prescribed for drinking of christ if to profess him be it , and then all that profess him drink of him by this doctrine , the falshood whereof we need not say much to . but whereas thou sayest concerning those israelites , that ate the same spiritual bread , and drank the same spiritual drink , that drank of the rock which was christ , how-be-it thou confessest they fell into gross sins , as is cleared from the history of the books of exod. levit. numb . deuteronomy , and cor. . , , , , . and that many of them were idolaters , lusters after evill , committed fornication , tempters of god , murtherers ( as thou sayest ) by all which thou hast sufficiently confuted thy self , and given a deadly blow to thy own cause , and proved a falling away from grace , which before was an arminian and popish doctrine with thee , or damnable popery ; for , was not that spiritual meat , and spiritual drink ; and that rock spoken of , saving grace ? and thy saying for infants baptisme , that it is the seal of the covenant , and to be given to those that are within the covenant ; but , are drunkards , prophane persons and their seed , and whole parishes within the covenant ? compare thy matter together : yet thou hast confessed the spirit is the inward seal , but sayest baptisme is the outward seal , and then instead of proof , askest why may not the covenant now have outward seales joyned with the inward seal of the spirit ; how faintly comest thou off here ? and , where provest thou sprinkling infants a seal of the new covenant , or that the covenant hath two such seales as thou implyest , and how knowest thou that its joyned with the inward seal of the spirit upon the children of drunkards and prophane persons , or on such as turn drunkards , swearers , &c. who come under this thy seal , which hath no impression of scripture or divine authority in it ; but now seeing that to gloss over thy groundless tradition and confusion uttered in mantaining it , thou hast often made use of divers scriptures , which the baptists were wont to bring for baptizing or plunging such as repent or believe ; i have not entered here into controversy with rhee about that point , it being not thy own , but onely thou wouldest make it serve for a cover ; yet when thou turnest baptist , and intendest to be real in pleading for plunging believers , thou mayest let me or us know , and that point probably may be treated of , as whether or no it be of necessity to salvation , and so of continuance to the true church : but however , under the sence of the baptisme of the spirit which baptizeth into one body , we do know present sattisfaction , and do acquiess in our spirits above the traditions of men and rudiments of the world . e. j. thy book came but to my hands this summer , it seems it was delayed in the hands of some , otherwise , i had answered it long ago . g. w. the doctrines , contradictions , inconsistencies , and variations of the presbiterian priests of scotland , as they were collected ( in their own words ) out of the said bundle , subscribed by edward jameson , &c. together with brief observations and notes upon them ; evidently shewing the confused body of their perverse work and babylonish structure , to the discredit and overthrow of their own corrupt cause , by their many and apparent incosistencies and self confutations which are here made obvious . there is no man free of sin in this life . christ is manifest to destroy the works of the devil . then is christ manifest to destroy sin and free from it , which they that plead for , know not his manifestation . christ doth not subdue sin totally in this life . whosoever is born of god sinneth not , he that abides in him commits not sin . then he that 's born of god , and abideth in christ knowes him to subdue sin totally in this life . that christ is manifest to destroy the work of the devil , if you take it so , may as well prove that satan shall not tempt a child of god. the evil one toucheth him not joh. . ch . . ( but this doth not prove any thing ) the evil one toucheth them not . to say these do not prove any thing is false and against plain scripture , and they whom the evil one cannot touch , his tempting them hath not power to lead them into his work , for all are not evil doers whom satan tempts . this saying [ if we sin ] implies as much as [ when we sin . ] we teach that believers should be daily ( by the strength of the spirit ) fighting against the flesh . the strength of the spirit of god is greater then the devil or sin either , and they who truly war by it , overcome ; and johns words were not ( when we sin ) but ( if we sin ) which implies not the same . we know in part , is an imperfect degree of knowledg and so sinful . there are promises of a growth unto believers , and of a fulness . which fulness is neither imperfect , nor is any degree of true knowledg sinful . david , job , daniel , their failings are noted , which i must cite . david said , cleanse me from my secret sins . and surely then davids prayers were heard , and his requests granted , and david , job , daniel , and others , their deliverances are noted as well as their failings , and that in their life time . for perfect righteousness , there is no promise in all the scriptures to any believer . there are promises unto believers of a fulness . gods everlasting righteousness is promised which is perfect , and the fulness of christ , eph. . . wherein is neither want nor imperfection . christ bad them search the scriptures , for in them they thought to have eternal life . this thought could not be a delusion . preaching is gods ordinary appointed way for begetting faith , not by immediate inward teaching alone , without peaching . see the confusion of these priests , one while ( with them ) the scriptures are the ordinary way ; another while preaching ; another while , all immediate teaching by god is denyed ; but another while , it s not by immediate inward teaching alone ; another while , a supernatural influence shining on the understanding is owned . we may find eternal life by searching the scriptures . you deny learning , study of scriptures , and deny them interpretatively . now the priests interpretations are set for ( and over ) scripture , which come not from the true and spiritual learning and study , but from babel . they must have the scriptures , who have the knowledge of christ , for without this , they cannot be kept from hell. gods absolute soveranity in his dispensations of grace is not to be tyed . then neither to be tyed to the scriptures , nor the priests preaching , nor yet to their confused meanings or uncertain interpretations . the light within is your enthusiastick fancy . christ enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world has planted some light in every man of the world . it s no less then blasphemy to count christs light a fancy ; for his life is the light of men , which we bear witness of . i deny any immediate teaching by god. begetting faith , is not by immediate inward teaching alone without preaching . then if immediate teaching be of use in part , it is not all to be denied . the scripture maketh known inward sins , thoughts , maketh us wise to salvation , able to save us . christ is said alone to save us , none have a sincere supernatural faith of the scripture that are ignorant of christ , there is a faith of the scriptures that is hystorical , which is not sufficient . and surely the scriptures are not christ , without whose knowledg , and supernatural faith in him , the scriptures are not rightly known and believed , but hystorically . without this ( viz the scriptures ) they cannot be kept from hell. christ as the principal cause of salvation , is said alone to save us . and surely he that alone saves , can alone keep man from hell. but the best of these nations and wisest , were the greatest enemies to the gospel . all men have a light of a natural conscience f●om him , which tells that there is a god , and somewhat of the nature of god , that he is eternal , and of the morral law. the light of christ in all men is not natural but spiritual , and those in all nations that were led by it , were not enemies to the gospel . we deny that the power of god is immediate ( viz. in his people ) he told us he will exercise his power ; for , and in us . then his power is immediate in us , and works immediatly in us many times , to our strengthening , comfort and refreshments , when we hear no man speak or preach to us . faith is a habit , and an imperfect creature , and it s as impossible it should be otherwise , as that a man abiding a man should essentially be a beast . saving , supernatural , enlightning and sanctifying faith is the gift of god. what then , are men saved , englightned , and sanctifyed by that which is imperfect ? what gross ignorance and contradiction is this ! the grace of hope is imperfect . christ is the hope of glory . the grace of christ is perfect , and he is the grace of all our graces . i call the scriptures the word of god , and the gospel the word of reconciliation , which are distinguished . the gospel is the scriptures written by the prophets ; what mark wrote is the gospel , the beginning of the gospel ; the gospel is a part of the scriptures one with them , conteined in them . if the scriptures and gospel be one ; how are they distinguished ? and , if the gospel and mynistry of christ be one , how is the scripture it ? and if marks declaration was the beginning of the gospel , how are the prophets writings the gospel ? is not manifest confusion , variation , and inconsistencies in these passages ? that christ was first known himself ere he gave the knowledg of the scriptures ; the apostle paul denies your consequence . it s false , that any have a sincere supernatural fai●h of the scriptures that are ignorant of christ , &c. then t is not false that there must ( in some degree ) be a supernatural knowledg and faith of christ , before the scriptu●es be truely known or believed . i deny any immediate teaching by god , christs immediate teaching will no wayes follow . christs opening the understanding to know the scriptures ; for he doth by the same supernatural influence shine on the understanding and scriptures , luke . . . christs opening and shining by a supernatural influence , plainly proves immediate teaching , as we called quakers do hold ; and against the priests of scotlands denying it , who thus confute themselves . if there be any pryority , or posteriority of christ in the soul , the scriptures hath it in the order of nature . the lord in the comunicating of the knowledg of them , he is in his being first ; the cause must be before the effect , so the giver of knowledg before the knowledg given . so that he that is the first , and cause of true knowledg , hath the priority and preheminence in all things , without whom the scriptures are not known ; and if it be a priority of christ ( as is said ) then christ hath it . without the sanctifying knowledg of christ , one may understand the scriptures without error and jangling . none can know the truths of the scriptures , without the sanctifying knowledg of christ. so then , without that sanctifying knowledg , none can understand them without error . we may find eternal life by searching scriptures , they thought to have eternal life in the scriptures , this thought could not be a delusion . he that hath heard and learned of the father , cometh to him ( viz. to christ ) he ( to wit the spirit of truth ) shall lead believers into all truth . so then the father is to be heard and learned of , that the son may be come to , and the spirit to be followed to lead into all truth , and this way was before the scriptures . sin is remaining in part , in all the faculties of gods children ( viz. in the will , mind , and affections ) cleanse thou me , from my secret sins ; peter exhorted the believing hebrewes to abstain from their lusts . then let not sin nor sinful lusts , allwayes remain in believers . if you find out any other faculty of the soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in , then the schooles will be beholding to you for your new phylosophie . when they are believers and begotten , they are so freed that the evill one cannot touch them ; many are commended for keeping his commandments . if the evil one cannot touch them , much less hath he power to lead them into sin all their time , or to uphold sin in all their faculties ; and the schools that would have more place for sin , allow christ no place . believers are not freed from sin wholy till death . to be unblamable , is that grace which is universal in all parts of the renewed man. unblameable is inconsistant with sin , for sin is blameable where ever it is . a believer ever after he is begotten of god is not free of sin , they do not perfectly mortify lusts in them . in the book of common prayer , there is a promise to forsake the devil and all his works , the vain pompe and glory of the world , and sinful lusts of the flesh , and be led by gods spirit to keep his commands ; many of those who promise may do this and keep it . what greater promise can there be of freedom from sin , then to forsake the devil and all his works , to be led by gods spirit to keep his commands ? your new light you pretend , is nothing but old damnable popery . the spirit of truth will lead believers into all truth . he that hath heard and learned of the father cometh to him . viz. to christ. our light is the light of the spirit of truth , which cometh from christ , and guides both to hear and learn of the father ; and this light was before the scriptures were , and its blasphemy to call it damnable popery . in the present time , i am sold under sin , that good i would do , i do not . groaning under a body of death : it was not a by-gone state paul speakes of , in the present time [ i am ] paul was giving thanks for victory through jesus christ ( yet all these are knit together ) victory , and being sold under sin , are two differing states , as warring , and being more then a conqueror are : paul spake to the romans after the manner of men , because of the infirmity of their flesh , and therein condescended to their capacities , below his own present state and injoyment . perfect holiness , of both soul and body , is not to be till the resurrection , viz. after death . believers at their death , which is upon their dying , are made perfectly holy . perfect holiness ought not to be put off , neither so long after death , nor till death , for what time do you allow christ to reign in man , and to serve him , if all your life time sin must remain , and so long the devil be served ? the godly falleth into sin seven times a day ; christ saith to peter , that he should forgive his brother seventy times seven , which implyeth , that a brother may offend often in the day time . as for my saying a day , it was a mistake of the citation of the place . that of the spirit is most prevailing with gods children , as unto which they do adhere ; the flesh they renounce and resist , and which by little and little they overcome . it had been well thou hadst confest thy mistakes as ingenuously in other things , the controversie had been the less ; but , do the brethren sin all their dayes ? when then do they overcome ? what gross confusion art thou in ! while we live , we must put on the armour of god and war against sin , which is not to be ended till we lay down this tabernacle . we are cleansed from all sin by the blood of christ , in justification when we do believe . if believers be cleansed from all sin when they do believe ; how have they it to war against , till they lay down this tabernacle ? surely they believe before . our peace stands in our justification by faith , and yet there are remains of sin in us , which we are to mourn for . there is a perfect cleansing from the guilt of sin . what , a cleansing from the guilt of sin , and not from the sin it self ; this is quite contrary to scriptures . christ was given for an advocate , for the sins of those whom john calls little children and his own , which therefore were to be . that of joh. . . i write unto you that you may not sin . page . . christ redeemeth from all iniquity , is a saviour and saveth them from their sins . math. . . luke . . . christ being thus a redeemer , a saviour , an advocate , therefore sins are not to be ; and there was young men and fathers as well as little children . the devils work remains unsubdued in the child of god , appeares by that paul saith to the romans , the god of peace , &c. the god of peace shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , rom. . and sure , when satan is thus trodden down under foot , his work cannot remain unsubdued ; for both his power and possession is taken from him by a greater then he . we have peace with god , but are all compassed about with infirmities and subject to passions as was elias . we are cleansed from all sin by the blood of christ. a●l passions are not sinful passions ; for passions are sufferings for it could not be that paul and barnabas were subjects to the like sins with those idollaters , act. . , , . when subject to like passion with them . here is another arminion and popish error , that believers may fall from grace . a believer may fall , peter and david sinned foully . surely their sinning so foully was not in the faith , but when they were turned from it , which required their repentance . that peter and david fell from faith , is an arminion , and popish error . evil works come not from faith. then the evil works they did , were out of , and against the faith ; and had they stood in the faith , they had been kept from those evil works . peter and david had their failings , viz. ( till dea●h ) eliah an old prophet , subject to like passion as we are , &c. christ said to peter , i have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not : when thou art converted strengthen thy brethren . doth signify when he should be fully recovered . and surely peter was so converted or fully recovered , as to strengthen his brethren before his decease ; and like passions were like sufferings , which may relate to sickness , ja● . ● . , . or other afflictions , for paul and barnabas were not subject to the like sins or idollatry with those heathens act. . . it is not sad doctrine as you say , but comfortable , that as believers may fall as peter and david , whereas he doth not fall wholly away , but hath still the seed of grace remaining in him p. . the sad breach that peters fall made on his soul , did weaken his grace and cloud his comforts very much . there are remains of sin within us which we are to mourn for . if sin did very much cloud his comforts , and be the cause of mournings as it was both to david and peter ; then for you to plead for sin term of life cannot be a comfortable doctrine , unless to such as be hardened in sin , and take pleasure in it . which improvment of the light within , must indeed come from free will , and consequently ye hold merit . we must put on the whole armour of god , and war against sin . pa. . do not they improve the light who war against sin ; and this is not of , or from mans will in the fall , but from the power that converts , and works in him to will and to do . there are remains of sin within us while we live here , which we are to mourn for . the kingdom of god is righteousness , peace , joy in the holy ghost . twenty sixth page . therefore sin which is the cause of sorrow , hath no place in the kingdom of god , which the saints attain to here . faith is an habit , and an imperfect creature . saving faith is given of god , and is a saving enlightning of the soul , to know christ , faith , is a sanctifying light. what strange doctrine is this , that an imperfect creature is a saviour , an enlightener , a sanctifier ; and doth the kirk of scotland receive this for orthodox : the gift of god is perfect , and every good and perfect gift comes from god. those who tell us of a faith in christ without scriptures , have no light in them . pa. . twenty sixth pag. the jewes wilfully rejected the light , and shut their eyes against it ; wicked men , who rebel against the light , have the light of a natural conscience , and the common work of the spirit . then they had the light , and the work of the spirit is not natural , but no light in them excludes natural light , as well as spiritual from being in them , whereas in that , isa. . . it should be no morning in stead of no light. jesus christ , bid them search the scriptures , for to find him in them . they might have life by the true spiritual knowledg of faith , these who believed and had life did own the light within , and who denieth that is christ , sheweth by the spirit of revelation and wisdom within . now supernatural knowledg , light within , spirit of revelation and wisdom within is confessed ; but another while imediate teaching , power &c. is denied by those who think to find christ in the scriptures ; but , is that christ that suffered at jerusalem to be found in the scriptures ? how blind are you priests of scotland . the child of god cannot sin totally and finally : there is no man liveth and sineth not . those for whom christ hath given himself he redeemeth from all iniquity . how , from all iniquity , and yet sin so much contended for by you . these all for whom christ died , cannot be meant of each individual person of the world how are they lost if he came to save them ; this argueth defect of wisdom to foresee want of power to effect his intention pa. . he died for all , some have wilfully rejected the grace given , that wilfully trample under foot , the blood of the son of god. there is neither defect of wisdom nor want of power in christ , but wilfulness and rebellion in man that lets ; he died for all his grace is freely tendered that they may believe and be saved : but this is not by absolute compulsion and force , as if therefore he were absolutely intended to save all ; but love and good will is shewed towards all , many wilfully reject and trample upon it ( as is confest ) motions of satan and our deceitful hearts are to be tried , it is comfortable doctrine , that a believer may fall as david and peter . those that got a new heart from god , and his fear put in them , they do not depart nor revolt . it is the deceitful hearts that are comforted with such doctrine , that is for falling as david and peter did , and not the new heart in which gods fear is put . the scriptures do reveal the mysteries . pa. . jesus christ sheweth by the spirit of revelation and wisdom within . pa. . the scriptures testifie of the mysteries , but then christ by that spirit within reveales them . the scriptures ( being many words of god taken together ) they are called the word of god. pa. . the scriptures calleth christ the word of god in some places . christ the word was before the scriptures , or the words , besides , one word is not many words , nor many words properly to be taken for one word . is not the father distinct from the son and the spirit in the personal subsistance . pa. . both the father and the son , and the holy ghost are a spirit . pa. . both ( ●or all ) a spirit , and yet distinct in personal subsistance ; where learned you this doctrine ? not from the scriptures . ye do not own what the scriptures assert , but your own blasphemous fancies ( viz. ) about the deity ; three persons distinct in the personal subsistance . pa. . ye say ye own what the scriptures of truth assert of the god-head ; that there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word and the spirit , and those three are one . then we own what the scriptures assert of the deity o● the father , word and the spirit which are one ; this is no blasphemy no fancies as malitiously we are accused . except ye call all the words of scriptures clearly confered together a cavilling , viz. touching three distinct ▪ persons in the deity , &c. although the scriptures do not in so many words make mention of the three persons , &c. who are one god ; we disalow all traditions , or any unwritten rule which is not scripture . then three dictinct persons in the deity , distinct in the personal subsistance , are not the words of the scriptures but a tradition , and why do you then alow of that which is not scripture , but that there are three that bear record in heaven , and these three are one is scripture . the apostles telleth that the corinthians were to shew forth christs death till he came again : the bread spoken of to them , behoved to be this of outward bread , &c. it behoved to be such a coming againe as was yet future and unaccomplished in the corinthians time . were the corinthians then to eat and drink outwardly after their time , or so long after their deceases ? what absurdity and grosness is here ! infants baptism was approved by the orthodox church , and the renouned teachers and guides thereof , and sound father , as tertullian , ciprian , lactant , augustine , jerom , basil , &c. it s derived from the church when pure . we disallow all traditions , or any un-written rule which is not scripture , whether they be under pretence of revelation , which enthusiasts hold ; or traditions as papists in this agree . then infants baptisme not being scripture ( but a popish tradition ) is therefore to be disalowed of . children of believers should be under the initial seal of the covenant as abrahams were . circumcision was the seal of the old covenant , and it was administered on males onely , page , . circumcision of the males onely , was in its time commanded of god , which is no proof of sprinkling infants both males and females , which was never cammanded of god. pa. . the fathers or isralites , who fell into gross sins , professed the same doctrine of salvation ; to profess christ is called a drinking of chr●st . &c abraham and his seed under the old covenant , had the same mediator which is jesus christ , he was the same yester-day to them , that he is to day to believers . their having the same media●or jesus christ the same , &c. and drinking of christ was more then to profess him , or the doctrine of salvation . and , did such fall into gross sins ? what fell they from if not from grace ye say thereis no express command for sprinkling of the infants of believers . pa. , but we disalow all traditions or any unwritten rule which is not scripture . pa. . you ' have confest what i said , that there is no express command for sprinkling infants , therefore in alowing of it you contradict your selves . though there be no express command , yet it s of divine institution and warrant ( if it be drawn by good consequence ) from the scriptures . truths and doctrines is to be tried by the scriptures , so far as can be found in the scriptures , page , . christ bid search the scriptures , they reveal the [ misteries , page ▪ . i deny any immediate teaching by god , page . . although a great stress and necessity is laid upon the scriptures , and immediate teaching so confidently denied , yet no sprinkling infants to be found , or required in scripture ( and whilst any imediate teaching is denied ) how is it of divine institution ? surely edward jamisons consequence herein is not divine , who denies any immediate teaching . pa. . if i had said it viz. infants baptism brought them to the church , those places and many others do hold it , as , gal. . . it s the ordinary way of putting on christ &c. i said not that it did bring them into the church , but that it is a seal of our entry into the church , page . . sprinkling of water is enough to signify inward washing . if it doth not bring into the church , it is but a signe of inward washing , it s not a putting on christ ; neither can the scripture prove it when there is no scripture for it , and were the scriptures deemed the ordinary way and means , but now sprinkling infants ; what ignorant and gross contradictions are these ! ye say baptisme doth not bring them into the church , it s a bold sacrilegious usurpation , in detracting from the words of the book of god , which shall be punished with all the curses of that book . though there be no express command ( for sprin●ling infants ) yet it s of divine institution if it be drawn by good consequence , pa. . see what curses these priests have laid upon them that deny the infants baptisme ( their scripturles tradition ) to bring into the church , and are not they herein evidently guilty of sacrilegious usurpation , and adding to the words of the book of god by their false consequence . baptizing of children or others , a standing ordinance of christ , which he hath appointed to continue to the end of the world , mat. . and ordinary means for salvation , ma● . . . there be no express commands for sprinkling infants , act. . . repent and be baptized . mark. . . he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved . they to whom repentance and faith was preached , were not infants ( such as the priests sprinkle of a few dayes old ) which is not the baptisme that saveth , but that of the spirit , or the answer of a good conscience is saving . page . . that many ministers baptize the children of those who are prophane and drunkards , and so not believers . they that profess the gospel , though they be not sincere believers , yet they are in this sence accounted belivers . page . . the children of believers , should be under the initial seal of the covenant , to believers and their seed that promise belongeth ; those to whom that promise , that god would be their god and the god of their seed ; should be baptized , viz. infants who are in the covenant with god. page . . it seems these priests can make believers at an easie rate , whilst they can take the prophane drunkards for believers , upon their professing the gospel ; but surely god is not the god of the prophane and drunkards , nor are they in gods covenant ( as true believers are ) but under satans power , and their taking it for granted that the sprinkling infants is the initial seal of the covenant is false , and but a beging the question . those who are under the profession of the gospel , are to be reputed as in covenant . pa. . unbelievers who have a profession , and yet have not sincere faith , &c. are not righteous nor holy , &c. then it is not the profession of the gospel that makes them believers or in covenant with god. an arminion and popish doctrine , that believers may fall from grace . the fathers , many of them fell into gross sins as is cleared from the histories of the books of , exod. lev. num. and deut. and , cor. . , , , , . they cat the same spiritual bread , and drank the same spiritual drink , drank of the rock which was christ , yet many of them were idolaters , lusters after evil thoughts , committed fornication , tempters of god , murderers , &c. see how fully these priest have proved the falling away from grace , for which they have so much accused us with popery and arminianisme ( what a babel are they in ) and , was not that spiritual bread and drink , and rock , which they did eat and drink of saving grace ? baptizm ( viz of infants ) brought them to the church is , an ordinary means for salvation , pag. . we are baptized into jesus christ and his death , rom. . . and it s instituted for the remission of sins , act. . . it s that which signifies our putting on christ , our renewing by the spirit , our washing by remission of sins , our being buried with christ , &c. then it s not the sign nor shadow , but the substance that brings into the true church that saveth , that baptizeth into jesus christ and his death , and this is that one baptisme of the spirit . infants baptisme or sprinkling , approved its the initial seal of the covenant , which the children of believers ought to be under . the apostle peter sayes , act. . . that those to whom the promise is , should be baptized , and vers repent and be baptized , mat . go teach all nations baptizing them , mark. . . he that , believeth and is baptized shall be saved . and , rom. . . we are baptized into jesus christ and his death , pag. . those that are capable of such teachings ( repenting believing ) are not infants of a week old ; and teach baptizing into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , was by the power and spirit that went along with their teaching and mynistring . pag. . they have no light in them , who speak not according to the law and the testimony , and tell us of a faith in christ without the scriptures . pag. . wicked men who rebel against the light , have the light of a natural conscience spoken of , rom , . . and the common work of the spirit . the work of the spirit of god in the hearts of wicked men , convicting them , is not natural nor from a natural light , for it is the spirit that so worketh in them , ( which you call common ) but your confessing a natural light in them , contradicts your saying they have no light in them ; but the law is light , and the testimony of jesus the spirit of prophecie , which the true prophets spake from , and they that spake not according to this light , there is 〈◊〉 morning to them , but they are in the dark , where the light 〈◊〉 before it shine out of darkness . some queries of alexander skein , sometime baily of aberdeen , upon his forsaking the publick worship there , and joining with the people of god in scorn called quakers . query i whether or not should any act of gods worship be gone about without the motions , leadings and actings of the holy spirit . query ii if the motions of the spirit be necessary to every particular duty , whether should he be waited upon , that our whole acts and words may be according as he gives utterance and assistance . query iii if every one that bears the name of a christian or professes to be protestants , hath such a uninterupted measure thereof , that at any time they may without waiting , go immediately about the duty . query iv if there be an indisposition and an unfitness at some times for such exercises , at least as to the spiritual and lively performance thereof ; whether the duty ought to be performed in that case , or at that time ? query v if any duty be gon about under pretence that it is in obedience to the external command , without the spiritual life and motion necessary ; whether such a duty thus performed , can in faith be expected to be accepted of god , and not rather reckoned , as bringing strange fire before the lord , seeing it is performed ( at b●st ) by the strength of natural and acquired parts , and not by the strength and assistance of the holy ghost , which was typified by 〈◊〉 fire that came down from heaven , which alone behoved to 〈◊〉 the sacrifice and no other ? query vi if duties gone about in the mere strength of natural 〈…〉 parts , whether in publick or in private , be not all really 〈…〉 matter an image of mans invention as the popish worship , ( though it be not so gross in the outward appearance ) and therefore as real superstition to countenance any worship which is of that nature , as it is to countenance popish worship , though there be a difference in the degree . query vii whether it be ground of offence , or just scandal to countenance the worship of those , whose professed principle is neither to speak for edification , nor to pray , but as the holy ghost shall be pleased to assist them , in some measure less or more , without which , they will rather chuse to be silent , then to speak without his influences ? errata pag. . lin . . for polythrites , read polytheites pag. . lin . . for : to : read two : pag. . lin . . for , to write read , or writ . pag. . lin . : for , christs , read christ pag. . lin . . read in it , for spake , read speaks pag. . lin . last , for revelation , read relation . pag. . lin . : for imperative , read superiour . pag. . lin . . read subjoyne . pag . lin . . for answer , read . reply . from pages . . and. . the pages are misfigured . pag. . lin . . read pr. an. pag. . lin . last , read pr. an. pag. . lin . . not , read nor l. in . . for which . read , such as . p. . l. . del . which p. . l. . r. a perfect cleansing p. . l. . r. work in part . p. . l. . f. that as . r. that a. p. . l. . f. is r. iesus . l. . r. your deceitful . p. . l. . del . . l. . r. p. . l. . r. and cup. p. . l. . r. such a great . l. . f. any r. all l. . r. we are not . . r. theire infants p. . l. . f. . r. . l. . f. the r. theire . . f. the. r. theire . . del . the. finis a sober vvarning to people that they may regard the work of the lord. the th day of the th month, laythes, thomas, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sober vvarning to people that they may regard the work of the lord. the th day of the th month, laythes, thomas, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) printed and sold by t. sowle, in white-hart-court in gracious-street, london : . signed end: thomas layths. reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . christian life -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sober warning to people that they may regard the work of the lord . the th day of the th month , . as i was pondering in my mind of the work and wonders of the lord , and of his great power and might , my spirit was bowed , and my heart was broken and tendered within me , and i said in my self , are the people so blind ! are they all so dark and ignorant and void of vnderstanding , that they cannot be awakened , to see and behold the works and wonders of the lord ! or do they see , and are they not affected therewith , nor humbled therefore , nor afflicted thereunder , as my spirit hath been this day : considering how that the lord doth seem , in divers places , to take away the fruits and encrease of the earth ; even the staff of bread , in some measure , the good and benefit thereof , by the continued rain , and unseasonable weather in the time of corn-harvest , and gathering in of the fruits and increase of the year , giving us to see with our eyes , and not to taste thereof , and how justly may he send want and scarcity , and cleanness of teeth , instead of plenty and fulness , because of the waste , excess , and abuse of his good creatures , both by rich and poor . for how have the rich and full wasted and destroyed them , in eating and drinking excessively ; and , through the ill use of strong drink , often abuse both themselves and others also . and what unthankfulness and ingratitude hath been in many of the poor unto god , for his mercies and blessings bestowed upon them ? and what pride and high-mindedness hath abounded in many places , seeking to exceed and excel one another therein ; as if this were their crown and glory , setting up their head-attires at such a height , as hath not been understood from former ages , nor known in a great part of this age , in the country in which we live ? and may we not truly say , see and behold the crown of pride , exalted in a great measure , above what heretofore , so that the next generation can scarcely exceed this , as these have done them that were before them ; and what lightness and vanity , laughter and unseasonable and unprofitable discourse is used and practised amongst men , reputed wise in the world , and how common are idle words , and evil communication amongst the most of people , and what frequent and customary taking god's holy name in vain , without all fear or reverence ; the seeing thereof many time is a grief and trouble to tender consciences . oh! that people would be wise to consider their latter end , and the shortness and uncertainty of their time here , and mind and consider the afflicting hand of god upon some , and his severe judgments upon others ; and for that several are taken away by short and sudden death , as in a moment , in the twinkling of an eye ; how should these things move and provoke people to fear and dread the lord that made them , and continually stand in awe of him ; for none of these things come to pass without him , either in doing of them , or in suffering them to be done , and that in judgment or in mercy ; in judgment to the wicked and rebellious that do not repent and forsake their evil ways and doings ; but in mercy unto his children and people that love , fear , and serve him in sincerity , and with an upright heart . o that people would be awakened , and not spend their precious time in pride , vanity , and lightness , in joaking and jesting , without fear and without understanding ; seeing the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom , and a good vnderstanding have all they that depart from evil , job . and . which that many may so do , is the all-desire of him , who is , a well-wisher to the whole creation , and a lover of souls , thomas layths . london , printed and sold by t. sowle , in white-hart-court in gracious-street , . truth defended. or, certain accusations answered, cast upon us who are called quakers; by the teachers of the world, and the people of this generation. with a cleare discovery, who are the false prophets, and when they came in. and who they are that deny christ, and that preach another gospel. and who deny the scriptures, churches, ministers, and magistrates, whereby the magistrates and people of this nation may see they justifie that which the scripture condemns, and condemne that which the holy men of god justified. / by a servant of the lord, whose name in the flesh is, edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) truth defended. or, certain accusations answered, cast upon us who are called quakers; by the teachers of the world, and the people of this generation. with a cleare discovery, who are the false prophets, and when they came in. and who they are that deny christ, and that preach another gospel. and who deny the scriptures, churches, ministers, and magistrates, whereby the magistrates and people of this nation may see they justifie that which the scripture condemns, and condemne that which the holy men of god justified. / by a servant of the lord, whose name in the flesh is, edward burrough. burrough, edward, - . howgill, francis, - . , [ ] p. s.n., [london : ] imprint from wing. with a prefatory epistle signed: francis howgill. annotation on thomason copy: "aug: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng truthfulness and falsehood -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no truth defended. or, certain accusations answered, cast upon us who are called quakers;: by the teachers of the world, and the people of thi burrough, edward d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jason colman sampled and proofread - jason colman text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth defended . or , certain accusations answered , cast upon us who are called quakers ; by the teachers of the world , and the people of this generation . with a cleare discovery , who are the false prophets , and when they came in . and who they are that deny christ , and that preach another gospel . and who deny the scriptures , churches , ministers , and magistrates , whereby the magistrates and people of this nation may see they justifie that which the scripture condemns , and condemne that which the holy men of god justified . by a servant of the lord , whose name in the flesh is , edward burrough . the epistle . to all you who call your selves ministers of the gospel , and all people in all relations under what forme of worship soever in england , or in all the world , who professe your selves christians . the mighty day of the lord is come , according as he promised of old , and this day is witnessed , wherein he is establishing his mountaine , and exalting it above all mountaines , and is gathering his people which have been scattered in the darke and long night of apostacy , which christ and his apostles saw comming into the churches then , and hath had dominion long over the world , and hath raigned till now , and raignes now in all the professors in all formes every where . but now the time is come wherein the kingdomes of the world are become the kingdome of the lord and of his christ , and thousands witnesse it , to the prayse of his everlasting name . and therefore the nations are angry , and the princes of the earth , because michael our prince is arisen to pleade with all who make warre against him . and now herod and pilate ▪ and all ierusalem are in an uproare , and ammon ▪ and amaleck ▪ and the egyptians , and the philistines are joyned now against him . and all you who live in formes , and know not the power ▪ doe now persecute and joyne your selves together , being in the same nature as the persecuters of old , which ▪ were borne after the flesh . and now you sonnes of bondage ▪ and of hagar are to be cast out ▪ and now you are all made manifest that you are in the flesh , for all your bowes are bent , and all your arrowes are shot at a people which are counted by you as the filth of the world , and as the off-scouring of all things , whom the world calls quakers , in whose foreheads is written the name of the living god ; and unto you i say that make warre against them , and now take part with the dragon against the lambe , you shall all drinke of the cup of fury and indignation of the lord . and unto the living god , who is holy and jealous for his owne glory and his name , which hath manifested his minde and will by his eternall spirit unto us , shall you all bow and stoope . for now the lord hath rent the vayle of the covering which hath beene spread over all the nations in all professions , and you are all seen by the eternall eye which is opened in thousands , even all , from the highest to the lowest , who have stolen and painted your selves with other mens words . and all your images which you have set up , and all your traditions from men in which you have walked , are all seene to be stubble , and will not abide in the day of the lord ▪ and all your churches which you have gathered together by imitation from the letter , shall all be scattered ; and there you all are , for you all deny revelation , and say it is ceased ; and so you call the letter , the light , and the word ; but with that which was before the scripture , you are seen and judged , even with that which shall endure for ever . and seeing you have cast reproach upon the name of the god of heaven and earth , whom we worship , and which you call delusion . for the truths sake are we moved to lay open your nakednesse , that you may be judged by that which you say is your rule : here in this little booke , thou who hast any honesty in thee , or any desire of truth ▪ and wilt search the scripture , thou wilt see , that all the teachers of the world in all formes , and all professors ever cryed out ( who had but the forme ) against them who had the life and power , as you all doe now against them who worship god in the spirit , and have no confidence in the flesh . and therefore , in this following discourse , which is wretten by the same spirit that gave forth the scripture , thou shalt see who are the false prophets , and who they are that preach another gospel , and who they are that deny the scriptures . and thou may see when the false prophets came in , and who they are clearely proved to be , by their owne rules . and all you who call your selves magistrates and christians , you may see your selves to hold up that which christ , the prophets and apostles cryed out against , and persecute them who stand in the counsell of god , and them that declare against all the deceipt as the holy men of god did . and so you are the beast , which holds up the false prophets , and th●se whom the scripture declareth against . god is arisen , to dash to pieces all them who withstand him : and therefore come out of babylon , and out of all your painted formes , and come to own the first principle ▪ which will change your mindes , even the light of christ , which he hath enlightened every one withall ; and by it you shall see what you are doing . now if you deny this , you deny the corner stone , and you stumble , and shall be broken ; and by that which you call naturall , shall all your image of gold and silver , and all your mixed invented worship be dashed to peeces ▪ and be for the pit : therefore all be silent , and speake not evill of th●se things you know not ; for now you are all seen , you who say you are iewes , and are not , but are of the synagogue of satan , and your voyce is knowne , for none is turned from the evill of his way ; and therefore is wrath comming upon you to the utmost , a lover of your soules , but am a witnesse against all your deceipt . francis howgill . whereas we are accused by the teachers and people of this generation ▪ that we are false prophets , and deceivers , and that we deny the christ which dyed at ierusalem ; and that we preach another gospel then the apostles preached ; and that we deny the scriptures , and the ordinances of iesus christ ; and that we hold free-will , and establish selfe-righteousnesse , and teach people to act in their owne strength to obtaine life ; and that we deny churches , ministers , and magistracy . to these false accusations , i answer ▪ it is no new thing nor no strange thing to the children of light , who are seperated from the world , and worldly worships , and from the works of darkenesse , to be accused falsely , and to be slandered , by being called deceivers , and seducers , by the generation of chiefe priests and pharisees ; in which generation are the teachers and professors of this age , who have a forme of godlinesse , but deny the power . christ was called a deceiver , and a blasphemer ; and the apostles were called , movers of sedition , heretiques , and turners of the world upside downe , by them who professed in word what christ was in substance , and what the apostles witnessed , and so it is now . we who are scornefully called quakers , doe live in , and declare forth no other thing but the substance of what the priests have preached upon , and the professors have talked upon in their carnall mindes by their imaginations . he is a false prophet , and a deceiver , which hath not the word from the mouth of the lord , but takes that which the lord spoke to another , and calls it his , and useth his tongue , and saith , the lord saith it , when the lord never spoke to him . and here are the teachers of the world themselves , guilty of that , whereof they falsely accuse us ; for they take the prophets words ▪ christs ▪ and the apostles words to talke upon , but have not received the word from the mouth of the lord ; and their prophesie and preaching would soon be ended , if they had not the scripture , which is other mens words , and that which was spoken to others , to speake their imaginations from . and these are the false prophets , and deceivers , which runne , and are not sent , which speake to others , pretending to be sent of god , but walking contrary to all that ever god sent to declare his name in former generations , and so are knowne to us by their fruits , having no example from the prophets , christ , nor his apostles for their practice ; but doe walke in the example of the false prophets of israel , of the scribes and pharisces , and of the false brethren . o foolish people , which have eyes and see not , which have hearts , and doe not understand : is the lord changed from what he was ? were they false prophets and deceivers in isayahs time ▪ which he was sent to cry out against , which sought for their gaine from their quarter ? and are not your teachers false prophets now which act the same things ? were they false prophets and deceivers in ezekiels time , which he was sent to cry against , that fed themselves with the fat , and cloathed themselves with the wooll , and made a prey upon the people ? and are not your teachers false prophets and deceivers now , which act the same thing ? were they false prophets in michas time , which he was sent to cry out against , which preached for hire , and devined for money , and cryed peace to them that put into their mouthes , but prepared war against them that did not ? and are not your priests false priests and prophets which act the same things ? were they deceivers of the people in christs time which he cryed woe against which were called of men masters , and which had the chiefe place in the assemblyes , and which stood praying in the synagogues , and which went in long robes , and which loved greetings in the markets ? and are not your teachers deceivers of the people now , which are found acting the same things ? were they false teachers ▪ and false brethren in the apostles time , which they declared against , which through covetousnesse , with fained words made merchandise of the people , and went in the way of balaam for gifts and rewards , and preached for filthy lucre , and which paul saw come & comming in his dayes , which were proud men ▪ coveteous men , selfe-willed , and fierce men , heady , high minded men , having a forme of godlinesse , but denying the power ▪ which alwayes taught people , but none were able to come to the knowledge of the truth under their teaching ? and are not your teachers false teachers now , which are walking in the same steps ? to the light in all consciences i doe speake , which will witnes the truth . a sottish and ignorant people , which cannot discerne who the false prophets , and deceivers , and false teachers are ; the lord is the same as ever he was , and his spirit is no whi● changed : was it once an abomination to the lord in the false priests and prophets of israel to seek for their gaine from their quarter , and to feed themselves with the fat , and cloathe themselves with the wooll , and make a prey upon the people , and to preach for hire , and to divine for money ? and are not these things , and they that uphold them abomination to him now ? did the spirit of the lord in his servants declare against these things then , and against them that upheld them then ? and must not the same spirit where it is made manifest , declare against these things , and against them that uphold them now ? was it once an abomination in the sight of christ in them to be called of men master , and to have the chiefe places in the assemblyes , and to stand praying in the synagogues , &c. and are not these things an abomination to him now in whom they are upheld ? did christ cry woe against such things , and against them that upheld them then ? and must not the spirit of christ where it is made manifest , cry woe against such things , and against them that uphold them now ? were these markes of false teachers then , to make merchandise of the people , and to goe in the way of balaam for gifts and rewards , and for filthy lucre , and to be proud ▪ coveteous heady , high-minded , selfe-willed , and fierce men ? and are not they false teachers now which beare these markes . did the apostles give warning to beware of such , and to turne away from such then ? and must not the same spirit , where it is made manifest , give warning to beware of such , and to turne away from such now ? we witnes to have received according to measure , the spirit of the prophets from which they spoke ▪ and the spirit of the apostles from which they spoke , which is christ made manifest in us , and happy are all they that receive our testimony . for by the same spirit of christ doe we declare against these abominations now , as the holy men of god did then : for god and his spirit is the same as ever was , and what he once hated , he hates for ever ; and no other christ doe we declare forth which we witnes to be made manifest within , but that christ which dyed at jerusalem , which suffered by the chiefe priests and elders of the people ; he was , and is the true christ , which said , he was the light of the world , and was the light which had enlightened every one that comes into the world ; and which said , except a man would deny the world and take up his dayly crosse , and follow him , he could not be his disciple ; and which cryed woe against them which were called of men masters , and that had the chiefe places in the assemblyes , and that stood praying in the synagogues , &c. and they who denyed him to be the light of the world and which took not up the crosse , and which were called of men masters ▪ and had the chiefest places in the assemblyes , and stood praying in the synagogues , and went in long robes these were anti-christs ▪ and were acted by a contrary spirit then the true christ and here againe , i charge all the teachers and people ( in the presence of the lord god , who doe deny christ to be the light in every one which reproves for sin ) and who are called of men masters , and stand praying in the synagogues , and goe in long robes ▪ and who uphold such things , and who take not up the dayly crosse of christ , but live at liberty in their wills and desires , that they are anti-christs , and that their spirit is not the spirit of the true christ which dyed at jerusalem , but the spirit of a false christ , and so they are guilty of that themselves , whereof they falsely accuse us ; and the same christ doe we witnes which the saints of old witnessed ▪ whose blood cleansed them from all sin ▪ and in whose power , they had power over sin , death , and hell : and here again i charge the teachers and people , who say that the saints must not be cleansed from sin , nor cease to commit sin while they are on the earth , that the christ which they possesse , is not the christ which dyed at jerusalem , but a spirit contrary , and not the christ which the saints witnessed ; and all the people are blinde which cannot see these things did the true christ once say . he was the light of the world , of every man that comes into the world ? and is that his spirit in the teachers and professors now , which saith every man hath not the light of christ in them ? was that the true christ which said , except you take up my crosse dayly you cannot be my disciple ? and is that his spirit in the teachers and people , that hath its liberty , and live in pride , in lust , and in vanity , and their own vvills ? was that the true christ which cryed woe against them that were called of men master , and that had the chiefe place in the assemblyes , and stood praying in the synagogues , &c. and is that his spirit in the teachers and people which act and uphold those things ? was that the true christ which the saints witnessed , by whose blood they were cleansed from sin , and had power over sin ? and is that his spirit in the teachers and people , which saith , the saints must not be cleansed from sin , nor cease to commit sin while they are on earth ? oh blinde and ignorant people , who cannot discerne between the true christ , and anti-christ , which is contrary to christ , and which leades now to act , and speak contrary to what the true christ once acted and spoake . and no other gospel do we preach , but that which the apostle preached , which they received not from , nor by man , but by the revelation of jesus christ , which was contrary to man , and which suffered by man for the preaching of it , who preached to the spirit in prison , to redeeme the captives , and by which the fleshly man was judged in the flesh , that man might live according to god in spirit . and this gospel we witnes to have received not from man , but by the revelation of iesus christ , which is contrary to man ; for which we are persecuted and suffer by man : neither doe we speake to the wisedome and reason , but we preach to the spirits in prison , that the fleshly man may be judged in the flesh , that man may live according to god in the spirit ▪ this will many witnes with us , that by the preaching of our gospel , liberty is brought to the captives , and the fleshly man is judged , and the spirit which was in prison is set free . and here again i charge the teachers of this generation , that their gospel which they preach is not the gospel which the saints preached , but another gospel , and they are guilty of that themselves , whereof they falsely accuse us ; for they have received their gospel from man , and by man from the printers and stationers ; and are made ministers of it by the will of man at schooles and vniversities ; and their preaching is in the will of man ▪ a limited time and place ; neither doe they suffer by man , but are set up with man , and seed the wisedome and reason of man ; and the fleshly man is not judged , nor the captives redeemed by their gospel which they preach ; here they are accursed which preach another gospel according to the scripture . and ye are a blinde and ignorant people , which cannot see these things . did they that preached the true gospel receive it contrary to the will of man ? and can it now be received by the will of man ? did they which preached it , suffer for it by man ? and can they now who preach it be set up by man , who lives in the same persecuting nature ? did the true gospel once judge the fleshly man , and leade to live according to god in the spirit ? and do●h it now give liberty to the fleshly man to live after the flesh in the lusts of it , as the teachers and professors of this generation doe , who profes the gospel , but are discovered not to be come to the law ? and the scriptures we own to be a true declaration of the life which they lived in which spoke them forth , and by the same spirit from which they were spoken ( which we have received ) doe we set to our seales that they are true , and the scripture is ours , who walke in the life of it ; proud men spoke it not forth , nor they that sought for their gaine from their quarter ; nor they that preached for hire ; nor they that were called of men master ; but persecuted them that spoke it forth , and denyed it . and here againe i charge it upon the teachers and professors of this generation , that they deny the scripture , and are guilty of that themselves , whereof they falsely accuse us . for they say , none must be perfect upon the earth ; when as the scripture declares of such as were perfect . and they say , none must be free from sinne , when as the scripture declares of such , as were free from sinne , and were the servants of righteousnesse . they say , christ hath not enlightened every one ; the scripture saith , he is the light of the world , and hath lightened every one &c. can they now who live in the same persecuting nature , and walke in the same steps as they did which persecuted them who spoke forth the scripture ( as the teachers and people doe ) owne the scriptures in truth ? their professing of the scripture is as theirs was , which made a great profession of it in the outward appearance , but put him to death who had the life , and was the substance of it . they then , as the teachers of the world , doe now , denyed the spirit and life , which gave forth the scriptures . and the ordinances of jesus christ we owne and witnesse , preaching , praying ▪ baptisme , communion , singing , and whatsoever was ordained for his saints , to practice in life and power ; we witnesse these things in the eternall substance , having passed through the earthly figures , which was but to stand for its time ; by the eternall have we been led , by the command of it within us , and not by tradition , from the scripture without us . and we deny all such who have taken up these things in their owne wills , by conforming the outward man to the outward letter , and have not entered in at the doore . true preaching we owne , and doe witnesse it , which is the crosse of christ , and in the power of god , and it is foolishnesse to the world , and its wisedome now , as ever it was ; and we deny all speaking of imaginations from scripture ▪ which is in the wisedome of the world , and which stands in the will of man , limitted to a set time , or day ▪ or place . prayer by the spirit , and in the spirit we owne and witnesse , whi●h is not limitted to a time and place . and we deny all the worlds formall customary preaching , and praying for a pretence . baptisme we owne , and witnesse , wich is with one spirit , into one body , into the death of christ . and we deny all baptismes which are imagined and immitated by conforming the outward man to the outward letter , which is but a likenesse of the true baptisme communion we live in , which is in the light by the spirit , which will endure eternally . and we deny the worlds imitation , which is in word and declaration ▪ and visible carnall things which will passe away . singing which is with the spirit , and with understanding of the redeemed of the lord , we owne and witnesse : but the worlds singing in rime and meeter ; proud men singing , that they are not pufe in minde ; and prophane men singing ▪ that the law of god is deare to them ; this singing we deny , for it must be turned into howling , the lord hath said it . and here againe i charge it upon the teachers of the world , that they deny the substance and power of what christ commands his saints to practice by , upholding their owne imitations , and so deceiving the simple : but where the substance is witnessed , the figure is indeed , and the false imitations are discovered , and denyed . and mans free-will we doe deny , for the will of man shall never enter to god , but leades out from god into the lust , and into the flesh , and keeps in the power of the devill : and man hath free will unto that which is evill , but not to that which is good ; and all who follow christ , the light of the world , must deny their owne wills , and take up the crosse of christ which is to the will , and walke in the light contrary to the will , in the straite way which leades unto life , which is out of the will of man in the will of god , which the will of man doth resist and oppose . and i charge it upon the teachers and professors who doe not witnesse the dayly crosse of christ , that they live in their owne free-will , and holds it up , and are led by it into pride and covetousnesse , and the lusts of the flesh which stand in the will . and here they are guilty of that themselves whereof they falsely accuse us , living in their owne free-will , and walke not in the dayly crosse of christ . and selfe-righteousnesse we have denyed , and have seen it in the same light which isayah did to be as filthy raggs ; and we declare against it ▪ and against them which live in it ; for selfe must not be saved ▪ it is accursed from god , it is wholly unrighteous ( and makes the best of actions so ) and is ▪ and must be cast out from god christ jesus made manifest and revealed in us , is our righteousnesse , and selfe is judged and condemned by him who is made unto us righteousnesse ; nei●her doe we teach people to labour in their owne strength to obtaine life ▪ but doe direct people to the light of christ within them , which walking in ▪ will be strength to them to leade them to life , the light which is of christ , to which we direct all to waite in to be taught by ; it will leade out of selfe-righteousnesse , and from under the power of selfe , to witnesse the power of god , to leade , and to act , and to witnesse christ jesus revealed the righteousnesse of god and the church which is in god , which is the body of christ whereof christ is head , we witnesse ▪ and are members of it , gathered and joyned by the eternall spirit , and not by tradition in the wisedome of man . and we deny all the vvorlds churches whereof they were made members by , by visible things without , and were gathered by tradition ▪ whereof the serpent is head , and not christ , and which is the body of anti-christ , some of whom commit idolatry in an idols temple : and the ministry of this church we deny , for it stands in the will of man ▪ and the ministers of it are such as all the servants of the lord witnessed against ; the churches the ministry , and the ministers , are contrary to god ; but the ministry which is to the seed ▪ which is out of the will of man , we owne and witnesse , which ministers life unto life , and death unto death , and divides the word aright , judgement to the fat , and to the strong ; and feeds the hungry , and looseth the bands of wickednesse , and breaks not the bruised reed , nor quenches the smoaking flax ; this ministry we deny not , but are friends unto it ; and who are ministers here ▪ we have union withall ; but proud men and such as are called of men master , are cast out of this ministry , and are ministers to the body of anti-christ , and know not the ministery of the ministry of jesus christ as this to the spirit in prison . magistrates and magistracy we deny not , but doe give respect unto for conscience sake ; for who beares the sword of justice ▪ who use their power to be a terror to the wicked , and for the prayse of them that doe well , are ministers of god , and we desire that there were more magistracy here , and that the magistrate would more use his power to be a terror to lyers , to swearers , to drunkards , to raylers , to false accusers , and to proud men and oppressors , this we are friends unto : but to such as act by their owne wills in corrupt lawes , and doe thereby violence to the innocent , and strengthens the hands of evill doers ▪ we cannot be subject , but choose rather ( then to transgresse the law of god which is written in our hearts , by submitting to such mens wills and lawes ) to suffer by the corrupt wills of men ▪ under corrupt lawes . and thus i have answered those false accusations which are cast upon us , and doe declare it be the same spirit in the teachers and people of this generation which accuseth us ▪ as it was in the scribes and pharisees which accused christ and his disciples . and this the scripture witnesseth unto , as they did unto him , so would they doe unto us . a further answer to that accusation of being false prophets and deceivers . jesus christ prophesied and said , that in the last dayes should many false prophets arise , and should deceive many , if it were possible the very elect. now the teachers and people of this generation doe say ▪ that we ( who by the world are called quakers ) are those false prophets and deceivers , which christ prophefied of . of this their false accusation have they drunkards , lyars , swearers , and all the ungodly people in every profession to witnesse them . but their accusation , and their witnesses we doe deny , though they preach it among the people for doctrine . and now in answer to this false accusation and slander i am moved to write a little , and shall to that principle of god in every mans conscience cleare my conscience , and declare what i know from god concerning those false prophets , who they are ▪ when they came in , and how they may be knowne ; and shall leave it to every honest heart to consider of . the apostles ▪ and ministers of jesus christ saw the same false prophets which christ prophesied of to be come , and comming in , in their dayes ; iohn said , by that they knew it was the last time ; for ▪ said he , even now are there many anti-christs and false prophets gone out into the world ; such vvere they , who confessed not christ to be come in the flesh , and they were of the world and spoke of the world and the world heard them . now here i charge it upon the teachers of the world ▪ that they are of that generetion which went out into the world then ; for as they then confessed not christ to be come in the flesh , so these uphold those things vvhich vvere under the law ▪ vvhich vvas before christ came in the flesh outwardly , and so confesse him not to be come in the flesh ; and so they are anti-christ . they uphold an outward temple , and an outward worship , and take tythes , as the priests under the law did , as a type and figure of christ ; but when he vvas come , and sacrificed , these things ( which were to stand for a time ) were put to an end . and none who witnessed christ come , and were sent by him to preach the gospel , did uphold those things , but witnessed forth the substance , and denyed the figure ; they denyed the outward temple , and witnessed they were the temples of god , and that god dwelt in them , and denyed the outward worship and witnessed the worship of god in spirit , and in truth within them , ( for they who worshipped without , worshipped they knew not what , as they doe now ) and they desired to take tythes , and lived of the gospel , and said , they that preached it , should live of it ; but the teachers of this generation are of the world , living in its pride , lusts , and vanities ; and they who live in the same worldly nature , uphold them , and heare them . iohn also said , every spirit that confesseth not christ to be come in the flesh , is anti-christ . and here i charge it upon the teachers of the world that their spirit of pride , and covetousnesse , and envy , and hypocrisie which rules in them , is the spirit of anti-christ , and confesseth not christ to be come in the flesh , for where he is made manifest , and come in the flesh , this spirit is destroyed ; for ( as saith the scripture ) he was made manifest to destroy the workes of the devill . paul was also a vvitnesse of the false prophets and deceivers which christ prophefied of in his time , for he gave warning , to beware of such ▪ and to turne away from such whom he saw then come , and comming in , but came more fully in after his dayes ; he said of this sort , they were lovers of themselves , covetous , proud , heady , high-minded , fierce men , and despisers of those that were good given to filthy lucre , and to pleasure , and were false accusers and blasphemers , and without naturall affection , and unthankefull , and unholy , and taught filly women , who were led with divers lusts , but were not able to come to the knowledge of the truth by their teaching : they were men of corrupt minds , and reprobate concerning faith . and here againe i charge it upon the teachers of the vvorld , that they are of that generation which came in then , for they are lovers of themselves , they take money of poore people to whom they are more able to give ; and they are proud and covetous men ▪ they goe in their ribbons and cuffes , and gaudy attire ; and they preach to them vvhere they can get most money ; and some takes money of them , and sues them at the law , to vvhom they preach not at all : they are heady and high-minded men , for poore people bow to them in the streets , and call them masters : they are fierce men , and despise those that are good ; if any speake against them ( of the truth ) they are fierce against , and despise such ; and they are given to filthy lucre , and are lovers of pleasure , for vvhere they can have most money , there they will abide ; and they live in pleasure ▪ in idlenesse , and lust , and vanity ; they are false accusers , they vvill call them deceivers which are not ; and that blasphemy , which is not ; and they are blasphemers , and vvithout naturall affection . they say the letter is the word , and the scripture the light , vvhich is blasphemy ; for god is the word , and christ is the light ; and they vvill suffer the rude multitude , and some vvill set them upon it to haile , beate , and strike out of their assemblyes , vvhich is vvithout naturall affection ; they are unthankefull , and unholy ; they have great summes of money from the people , and are not thankefull , but compell them by a law to pay them ; and herein they are unholy by their actions vvhich are declared ; and they teach alwayes , but men and vvomen are ignorant still , and none able to come to the knowledge of the truth by them : and they have a forme of godlinesse : they professe the scriptures that the children of the lord are taught of the lord ; and that christ said , take no thought what to eate , nor what to drinke , nor wherewith to be cloathed . but vvho vvitnesse themselves taught of god , and that they need no man to teach them ; and that take no care vvhat to eate , nor vvhat to drinke , nor vvhat to put on , and so vvitnesse the promise of god , and abide in the doctrine of christ , these you call deceivers , and idle , and carelesse persons , and thus deny the power of vvhat they have professed ; and herein their minds are corrupt and reprobate concerning faith ; for faith is the substance , and purifies the heart from these things vvhich they are guilty of . and peter and jude also vvere vvitnesses of those deceivers and false prophets vvhich christ prophefied of in their time ; for , they saw such vvere come , and comming in , which should bring in damnable heresies ▪ and through covetousnesse , with faigned words , make merchandise of the people ; they walke after the flesh in the lust ▪ of uncleannesse , and despise government , and dominion : presumptuous are they , selfe ▪ willed , they are not afraid to speake evill of dignities 〈◊〉 they speake evill of the things that they understand not ; they have eyes full of adultery , and that cannot cease from sinne , begniling unstable soules ; an heart ▪ they have exercised with covetous practises ; cursed children , which have ▪ forsaken the right way , and are gone astray , following the way of balaam , who loved the wages of unrighteousnesse , they themselves are the servants of corruption , ungodly men , turning the grace of god into laciviousnesse , and defile the flesh : these are murmurers , complainers , walking after their owne lusts , and their mouthes speaking great swelling words , having mens persons in admiration because of advantage ; there be they who seperate themselves , sensuall , having not the spirit . and here againe i charge it upon the teachers of this age , that they are of that generation vvhich came into the world then ; for they have brought in , and doe uphold damnable heresies , telling people , that sprinkling infants with water is the baptisme into the faith ; and that singing davids experiences in rime and meeter , is singing to the glory of god ; and that a house of stone is the temple and church of god ; these are damnable heresies : and they doe through covetousnesse , make merchandise of the people ; if they can get more money at another place , thither they will goe ; and thus people are their merchandise : they walke after the flesh in the lusts of uncleannesse ; they walke in pride and in lust , and som● of ●hem will be drunke , and lye , and sweare , and talke ●n●●●●ly ▪ and they despise the saints government and d 〈…〉 for they walke in the wayes of the world , in the customes and traditions of men , and follow their owne wills ) and whom the spirit of god governes , and hath dominion over , followes christ for their example , whose government and dominion they are under . but they live in pride , lust , and vanity , and according to the flesh , and herein they despise government and dominion , and speake evill of this dignity , and of the mysteries of god revealed in his saints , which they know not , nor understand not , calling it error ; they are presumptuous and selfe-willed ; they have presumed to call themselves ministers of christ , and all the townes where they live must serve , and be subject to their wills . and they are adulterated from god after honour and riches , and the vanities of the world ; and they cannot cease from sinne themselves ; for they say , none must cease from it while they are on the earth ; and herein they beguile many soules ; for , till sin be ceased from the soule , it is beguiled ▪ they have a heart exercised with covetous practises , and they follow the way of balaam , and goe for gifts and rewards ▪ and love the wages of unrighteousnesse : they take money of poore people for sprinkling infants ▪ and for burying the dead , which are covetous practises : they take money for henns and eggs , and for smoake passing up the chimney , which are unrighteous wages ; and thus they have forsaken the right way , the way of god , and of all the saints which spoke forth the scripture ; and in these things , they are servants of corruption , and are ●dgodly men , and turne the grace of god , ( which shines in their consciences , which shewes them their ungodly wayes ) into laciviousnesse ; and through their lust they defile the flesh : and many of them will murmure , and complaine for want of wages , even to spend upon their lusts ; and they speake great swelling words , speaking of the fame of christ , of his life , and death , and resurrection , but cannot witnesse by the spirit of christ within them what they speake of him : and they have mens persons in admiration , because of advantage : some of them had the bishops in admiration , and some the king in admiration ▪ and now they have others who beare rule in admiration ; and thus they deceitfully have twined to admire mens persons onely because of advantage , many of them have seperated themselves , none who are not of their judgement , must joyne with them in their worship , but neither they , nor their seperates have the spirit of the living god , but doe deny an infallible spirit : and they are sensuall in their wisedome , and wayes , and practises , and these have deceived many , even whole nations . and here you see plainely when the deceivers and false prophets came in ; they were come , and comming in , in the apostles dayes , and then was the prophesie of christ fulfilling and fulfilled : and the apostles suffered under tyrants , and were put to cruell deaths , and then they came in more fully ; for since the apostles dayes hath been a great apostacy , and many formes of worship and wayes of religion have been imitated from the letter through imaginations , and but one generation of teachers ▪ though one above another , in the comprehension and sensuall wisedome , and at enmity one against another , though all in one birth and nature . but they are all discovered by the light , prayses ( from all that know god ) unto him for ever since the apostles dayes hath darknesse been spread over all , though the lord had some which he preserved for himselfe in the middest of apostacy and darkenesse ; who the false prophets are which christ prophesied of to every honest heart and single eye may be known ; christ said ▪ by their fruits should they be knowne ; and the fruits of the teachers of the world are plainely made appeare to be the fruits of deceivers , and not of the ministers of christ ; none have gathered grapes nor figgs from them . and thus i have cleared my conscience in the presence of god concerning the false slander and accusation which the teachers and people of the world doe cast upon us ; and to that in every ones conscience it is made appeare who they are to whom this accusation justly belongs . woe unto all you who strive against the lord , and justifie that which the holy men of god which spoke forth the scripture in the scripture , declared against ; and which condemne that which the holy men of god in the scripture justified ▪ and witnessed for : you who live in pride , in covetousnesse , in double-dealing , and in hypocrysie , and in the lusts of the flesh , ▪ you strive against the lord god , and against the light of god which is in your consciences , which shewes you these things to be sinne ; you resist the drawings of the father , which would draw you by the light to follow the sound : woe and desolation is to come upon all you who will not be taught by the light of christ which he hath lightened you withall ; which light all the holy men of god were taught by , who gave forth the scriptures , but doe set up teachers without you , such as all the holy men of god , the prophets , christ and his apostles declared against . oh blinded , stiffe-necked people , which are not ashamed to call such ministers of christ ▪ and of the gospel ( and by your corrupt wills and laws to ▪ defend them ) which seeke for their gaine from their quarter , and which feed themselves with the fat , and cloathe themselves with the wooll ; and which preach for hire , and divine for money , and prepare warre against them that put not into their mouthes : here you justifie such as the prophets of the lord were sent to cry against , and deny isayah , ezechiel , and micha to be true prophets ; for if you did beleeve that they spoke from the mouth of the lord , the word of the lord , then would you not uphold them which act those things which they declared against ; for that which was abomination to the lord then , is abomination to him now ; and that spirit which declared against these things then , cannot uphold them now . and here the teachers and people are tryed , not to have the same spirit which was in the holy prophets of the lord , but the spirit of the false prophets ▪ acting by it that which they acted , which the true prophets cryed against ; and thus by upholding that which the lord sent his servants to declare against . you striue against the lord ye magistrates and people . and you are not ashamed to call such ministers of christ which ( walk in the same steps , and act those things that they did , which christ cryed woe against ) are called of men masters , and have the chiefe places in the assemblyes , and stand praying in the synagogues , and goe in long robes , and love greetings in the markets , as they did ; here you justifie such as christ cryed woe against , and deny that christ spoke the truth what was the minde of his father ; for if you did beleeve that he spoke the will of his father , then would ye not uphold these that act the same things which he cryed woe against . and he changes not , that which he once cryed against , the same spirit where it is witnessed , cryes against the same things . and here againe the teachers of the world are tryed not to have the spirit of christ , but the spirit of the scribes and pharisces , who act that which they acted , which he cryed woe against . and herein magistrates and people strive against the lord god , by upholding that which christ cryed woe against . and such who are ministers of christ , and walke in his doctrine , and in the same steps , which he and his apostles walked in , witnessing for that which they witnessed , for and against that which they witnessed against them you call deceivers , and false prophets , and accuse them for vagabonds , and wandering beggars , and idle , and carelesse persons ; and that they have left their families , and carelessely wander up and downe . and herein you magistrates and people strive against the lord , by persecuting , and slandering ▪ and falsely accusing ▪ and condemning such as the scripture justifies , and the servants of the lord which spoke forth the scripture doe witnesse of to be true . what would you have called christ , who had no where to lay his head ? he was no vagabond , nor idle , not carelesse person . and what would you have called the apostles and ministers of christ , who had lost their families and callings , and went up and downe , and had no certaine dwelling place , but went from city to city , and cared not for the world ; not what to eate , nor what to drink , nor wherewith to be cloathed ? this they did , and yet were no vagabonds , nor idle , nor carelesse persons , but abode in the doctrine of christ ; they were hated by your generation , as we are now by you : and they were called pestilent fellowes , and movers of sedition , and haretiques , and men of erronious judgements : and they said , they were troublers of their cities , as you doe now call us false prophets and deceivers i doe declare this generation to be the same which persecuted the prophets , christ , and his apostles , as it doth persecute us ; for by the same power we stand , as they did ; and by the same power we are commanded and acted , as they were : and to the power by which we stand , and are commanded , shall all the powers of men , and of the earth bow , and be subject . o all you magistrates and people consider of your blindenesse , and ignorance , who doe absolutely justifie and uphold such as the scripture declares and witnesses against ; and doe condemne and persecute such as the scripture justifies , and witnesses of ; and doe put them out of your synagogues and villages ; search the prophets , and christs , and the apostles writings , in them you may reade your example , and our example . the vengeance of god you cannot fly , his fierce wrath will come upon you , and weeping , and bowling , and lamentation , and misery will be your portion . o tremble to thinke upon your ignorance , to what purpose have you made a profession of the scriptures , who justifie those things , and those men , which it plainely declares against ; and condemne those practises and those men , which it plainly witnesseth of . repent , and take warning betime , before the decree of the lord of hosts be sealed against you , for i have cleared my conscience , in letting you see your owne ignorance , and blindenesse , ye magistrates and people : and thus you are left without excuse , whether you will heare , or forbeare . finis . william penn's ansvver to john faldo's printed challenge penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) william penn's ansvver to john faldo's printed challenge penn, william, - . sheet ([ ] p.) by andrew sowle, [london : ] dated at end: london the th of the th month, . imprint from wing. a reply to an anti-quaker tract. reproduction of the original in the cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng faldo, john, - . -- challenge -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- england -- london -- apologetic works -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion william penn's answer to john faldo's printed challenge . it would seem strange , as well as unreasonable to me , that j. faldo should of all times and places chuse the barbican meeting of the th of the th month , so surreptitiously gotten and partially mannaged , to divulge his challenge against me , did i not give off wondering at the injust carriage of some men towards us . for first , he could not but know , i was at a great distance from the place ; that i had twice defended our belief in print against him ; and that a considerable book lieth at his door unanswered . to make then that swagger in my absence , and yet be debtor to my desences ; to come ten miles to tell the world , he would do great things against me , and when he had done , to print , and as i may say , spit in our faces at our entrance into the last barbican-meeting , before he had sent me a copy , or atleast to know of my receipt of it , and answer to it , who am as near a neighbour to his residence as the barbican-meeting , i think cannot be reputed fair by indifferent persons : how unfair then is the complaint , that he hath had no answer ? again , was i not then , and am i not still engaged against other persons , and that mostly about the same things ? why did he not send me word he intended to be there , and exhibit a charge publickly against me ? the english custom as to common right . is this to prove quakerism no christianity ; or himself no christian ? i cannot believe he did to me herein , as he would be done by . but that i may acquit my self of that duty incumbent on me for the truth , i do hereby signifie , that inasmuch as the controversie depending between t. h. &c. and us , takes in the most of the particulars of his charge , we freely consent , that he should come in with them for a share as confederate in the same work , and use his utmost abilities to maintain his accusations ; and if in any thing his charge is singular , we shall be ready to hear and fairly debate it at the same meeting or meetings , to avoid fresh and unnecessary contests , as much as justly may be : though still let it be remembred , these very things are at large discoursed in my rejoynder to him ; our faith relieved from his unworthy misrepresentations , and confirmed by scripture , reason , and a cloud of honourable ancient and modern witnesses . london the th of the th month , . some questions and answers concerning religion and the worship of god. laythes, thomas, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) some questions and answers concerning religion and the worship of god. laythes, thomas, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] imprint from wing. signed and dated at end: thomas laythes. from dailhead in cumberland, th th mo. . reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . god -- worship and love -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion some questions and answers concerning religion , and the worship of god. the only living and eternal god that made heaven and earth , and all mankind , it is he that requireth religion , worship and service , from all people , having given them a gift and understanding whereby to know and discern good from evil , and right from wrong : and seeing there are so many religions , professions and worships in the world , it is very necessary to know which is that true religion and worship the lord hath a regard unto , and doth accept of . quest . . from whence comes , and what is , the true and sound religion and worship ? answ . the true and right root , from whence sound religion springs and arises , is from that precious incorruptible seed , sowen by christ the good seeds-man in the hearts of the children of men , whereby they are renewed and born again unto a firm faith , and sure stedfast belief in god the father , and in his eternal son jesus christ for life and for salvation ; and in this living and true faith , we sincerly serve , honour and obey god , in a holy living with him in his fear , and a daily waiting upon him , and a humble walking before him , and reverend worshiping and serving him in the spirit and in the truth , jam. . . joh. . . pet. . . quest . . what is the difference between the true religion and the false ? answ . the true and sound religion having for its ground and foundation a pure principle of truth , which leads into all truth in the hearts and consciences of the children of god , whereby they are acted , led and guided in the things of god , and in all there religious services to god : then the fruits and effects therefrom , is meekness , patience , temperance , love , peace and good-will unto all : and such as are led and guided by this good spirit , they are firm , and sure , and stedfast in their religion and worship , and cannot forsake the assembling themselves together in the time of persecution and suffering , as the manner of some hath been . — and the ground and foundation of false religion , is darkness , ignorance and unbelief , pride , blind-zeal and self-conceitedness , begotten by the spirit of enmity in the hearts of the children of darkness and disobedience to the light and grace of god ; and from this ground ariseth all that confusion in religion and worship , and those many inventions and traditions in pretence of the service of god : and from this vain religion , and unbridled tongue , ariseth much discord , strife and contention , from such as conceit they know that which they rightly know not , and so are wise in their own imaginations , and puft up with their own conceivings , to contend and dispute in the spirit of enmity , and not of love ; and when this doth not prevail , then sometimes they go on to persecution , imposition and other cruelties , about religion and worship ; and such are not conscientious for any religion at all , but can easily comply and conform to any religion and worship whatsoever , being from the meek and peaceable spirit of christ jesus . quest . . among all sorts of people , who may be said to be likest the ancient and primitive christians ? answ . those may be said to be likest the ancient and primitive christians , who do believe in , and receive the light and spirit of grace in their own hearts , and are thereby taught in doctrin and practice , in humility , charity and self-denial , being made willing patiently to suffer reproach and persecution for god and christ's sake , and walk according to christ's example , who went about doing good , and when he was reviled , reviled not again , pet. . , , , act. . . quest . . who are the best ministers ? answ . those may be said to be the best ministers that convert and turn most souls unto god , according to that in james . . he that converteth a sinner shall save a soul : then let us see who these are ; they are not the proud and lofty , they are not the light and airy , nor the wild and wanton , they are not the hirelings , who seek their gain from their quarter , they are not the envious persecutors , nor the vain and unprofitable talkers . quest . . who are they then ? answ . they are such as have freely received the gifts of god's grace , and according to the ability thereof , do freely minister unto others , what they have heard seen and handled of the word of life in themselves and live accordingly , whereby they are made instrumental to turn many from darkness to light , and from satan's power to god : these are the best ministers . quest . . and who is the best teacher ? answ . the best teacher is christ jesus , who by his light and grace teacheth to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts . and who are they that are taught and guided by him ? not the prophane , drunkards , lyers , swearers , whore-mongers and adulterers , nay these god will judge : it 's those that live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world , tit. . , . quest . . and which may be said to be the best meetings in relation to the worship of god ? answ . those may be said to be the best meetings , wherein the lord most appears by his heavenly power and divine presence to humble the hearts , and mollifie and tender the spirits of his children , and enlarge them to run the way of his commandments with great delight : these are certainly his people , and these are the best assemblies and meetings . let truth and true experience speak to these few things . from dailhead in cumberland , th th mo. . written by a friend to truth , and a well-wisher to all people , thomas laythes . a testimony concerning the life, death, trials, travels and labours of edward burroughs that worthy prophet of the lord who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus, and the word of god, in the city of london, the th of the th month, / [by] f.h. howgill, francis, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a testimony concerning the life, death, trials, travels and labours of edward burroughs that worthy prophet of the lord who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus, and the word of god, in the city of london, the th of the th month, / [by] f.h. howgill, francis, - . whitehead, george, ?- . coale, josiah, ?- . fox, george, - . [ ], p. printed and are to be sold by william warwick, london : . signed: fran. howgil. includes contributions by george whitehead, josiah coale and george fox. imperfect: pages stained and with print show-through. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng burrough, edward, - . quakers -- biography. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a testimony concerning the life , death , trials , travels and labours of edward burroughs that worthy prophet of the lord who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus , and the word of god , in the city of london , the th of the th month , . f. h. london , printed , and are to be sold by william warwick , . the life and death of edward burroughs that worthy prophet of the lord , &c. shall days , or months , or years wear out thy name , as though thou hadst had no being ? oh nay ! shall not thy noble and valiant acts , and mighty works which thou hast wrought through the power of him that separated thee from the womb , live in generations to come ? oh yes ! the children that are yet unborn , shall have thee in their mouths , and thy works shall testifie of thee in generations , who yet have not a being , and shall count thee blessed . did thy life go out as the snuff of a candle ? oh nay ! thou hast penetrated the hearts of many , and the memorial of the just shall live for ever , and be had in renown among the children of wisdom for ever ; for thou hast turned many to righteousness , and shall shine as a star of god in the firmament of god's power , for ever and ever ; and they that are in that , shall see thee there , and enjoy thee there , though thou be gone away hence , and can no more be seen in mutability ; yet thy life , and thy spirit shall run parallel with immortality . oh edward burroughs ! i cannot but mourn for thee , yet not as one without hope nor faith , knowing and having a perfect testimony of thy well-being in my heart , by the spirit of the lord ; yet thy absence is great , and years to come shall know the want of thee . shall i not lament as david did for a worse man than thee , even for abner when in wrath he perished by the hand of joab without any just cause , though he was a valiant man ? david lamented over abner , and said , dyed abner as a fool dyeth ? ( oh nay ! he was betrayed of his life ) even so hast thou been bereaved of thy life by th● hand of the oppressor , whose habitations are full of cruelty . oh my soul , come not thou within their secret , for thy blood shall be required at the hands of them who thirsted after thy life ; and it shall cry as abels , who was in the faith ; even so wert thou ; it shall weigh as a ponderous milstone upon their necks , and shall crush them under , and be as a worm that gnaweth and shall not dye : when i think upon thee , i am melted into tears of true sorrow ; and because of the want that the inheritance of the lord hath of thee , my substance is even as dissolved : shall i not say as david said of saul and jonathan when they were slain in mount gilboa , the beauty of israel is slain upon the high places : even so wast thou stifled 〈◊〉 nasty holes and prisons , and many more , who were precious in the eyes of the lord : and surely precious wast thou to me , oh dear edward , i am distressed for th●● my brother ; very pleasant hast thou been to me , and my love to thee was wonderful , passing the love of women : oh thou whose bow never turned back , neither sword empty from the blood of the slain , from the slaughter of the mighty ; who made nations and multitudes shake with the word of life in thy mouth , and wast very dreadful to the enemies of the lord , for thou didst cut like a rasor ; and yet to the seed of god brought forth , thy words dropped like oyle , and thy lips as the honey-comb . thou shalt be recorded among the valiant of israel , who attained to the first degree through the power of the lord , that wrought mightily in thee in thy day , and was worthy of double honor , because of thy works sake ; thou wast expert to handle thy weapon , and by thee the mighty have fallen , and the slain o● the lord hath been many ; many have been pricked ●o heart through the power of the word of life , and coales of fire from thy life come forth of thy mouth , that in many a thicket , and among many bryars and thorns it ca●e to be kindled , and did devour much stubble that cumb●●ed the ground , and stained the earth . oh how certain a sound did thy trumpet give ! and how great an al●rm didst t●ou give in thy day , that made the host of the uncircum●●sed grea●ly distressed ! what man so val●ant , though as goliah of gath , would not thy valour have encountered with , while many despised thy youth ! and how have i seen thee with ●hy sling and thy stone ( despised weapons as to war with ) wound the mighty , and that which hath seemed contemptible to the dragons party , even as the jaw-bone of an asse , with it thou hast slain the philistines heaps upon heaps , as sampson . thou hast put to thy hand to the hammer of the lord , and has● often fastened nailes in the heads of the lambs enemies , as d●borah did to sisera ; and many a rough stone hast thou polished and squared , and made it fit for the building of god ; and much knotty wood hast thou hewed in thy day , which was not fit for the building o● god's house , oh thou prophet of the lord , and shalt for ever be recorded in the lambs book of life , among the lords worthies , who have followed the lamb through great tribulation , as many can witness for thee from the beginning ; and at last hath overcome , and found worthy to stand with the lamb upon mount sion the hill of god , as i have often seen thee , and thy heart well tuned as a harp , to praise the lord , and to sound forth his great salvation , which many a time hath made glad the hearts of them that did believe , and strengthen their faith and hope . well , thou art at res● ; and bound up in the bundle of life ; and i know tears was wiped away from thy eyes , because there was no cause of sorrow in thee : for i know thou witnessed the old things done away , and there was no curse but blessings were poured upon thy head as rain , and peace as a mighty shower , and trouble was far from thy dwelling , though in the outward man trouble on every side , and hath had a greater share in that , fo● the gospel sake ( though a youth in thy time ) th●n many besides : but now thou art freed from that , and h●st obtained a name through faith , with the saints in light. well , hadst thou more to give up then thy life for the name of jesus in this world ? nay ; and to seal thy testimony committed unto thee with thy blood as thou hast often said in thy day , which shall remain as a crown upon thee for ever and ever . and now thou art freed from the ●empt●tions of him who had the power of death , and art freed from thy outward enemies , who hated thee because of the life that dwelt in thee , and remaineth at the right hand of god , where there is joy and pleasure for evermore in the everlasting light , which thou hast often testified unto , according to the word of prop●esie in thy heart , which was given unto ●hee by the holy ghost , and art at rest in the perfection thereof , in the beauty of holiness ; yet thy life and thy spirit i feel as present , and have unity with it , and in it , beyond all created and visible thing● , which are subje●t to ●utation and change ; and thy life shall enter into other● , to testifie unto the same truth , which is from everlasting to everl●sting ; for god hath raised , and will raise up children unto abraham , of them that have been as dead stones , whose po●er is almighty , great in his people in the midst of their enemies . this same edward burroughs was born in the barrony of kendal , in the county of westmoreland , of honest parents , who had a good report among their neighbours for upright and honest dealing among men , who brought up edward in his youth in learning and good education as the countrey doth afford . he was a very understanding boy in his youth , and his knowledge and understanding did far exceed his years : he had the spirit of a man when he was but as a child ; and i may say , grey h●irs was upon him when he was but a youth ; for he was cloathed with wisdom in his infancy ; for i had perfect knowledge of him from a youth . he was inclinable from his youth upwards , to religion , and the best way , always minding the best things , and the best and nearest way of worship to the scriptures of truth , and always did accompany the best men , who walked in godliness and honesty , insomuch i have often admired his discreet carriage , and his great understanding of the things of god : he was never known to be addicte● to any vic● or malignity , or bad behaviour , neither followed any evil course of life from his childhood , but feared the lord , and walked uprightly according to the light and knowledge received in all things . in his natural disposition he was bold and manly , dexterous and fervent ; and what he took in hand , he did it with his might ; loving , kind and courteous , merciful and flexible , and easie to be entreated . his whole delight was always ●mong good people , and to be conferring and reading the scriptures , and little to mind any sports or pastimes , which there is an infidency unto in youth ; but his very strength was bended after god , and was separated ( i may say ) from his mothers womb , and fitting for the works sake whereunto he after was called . and when it pleased the lord to raise up the a●cient horn of salvation among us , who were reckoned in the north part of england , even as the out casts of israel , and as men destitut● of the great knowledge which some seemed to enjoy ; yet there was more sincerity and true love among us , and desires ●fter the living powerful presence of god then was among many in that day , who seemed to make a great flourish , who ran into heaps and forms , but left the cross behind them , and indeed were strangers to it ; god out of his everlasting love did appear unto us according to the desire of our hearts who longed after him , when we had turned aside from the hireling shepherds t●nts , we found him whom our souls loved , and god out of his great love , and great mercy , sent one unto us immediately by his power , a man of god , one of ten thousand , to instruct us in the way of god more perfectly , who laid down the sure foundation , and declared the acceptable year of the lord ; who indeed made the mourners to re●oice , and the heavy hearted glad , which yet was terrible to all hypocrites , and all formal profession ; which testimony reached unto all our consciences , and entered into the inmost part of our hearts , which drove us to a narrow search , and to a diligent inquisition concerni●g our st●te , which we did come to see through the light of christ jesus which was testified of , and found it to be even what it was testified of ; and the lord of heaven and earth we found to be near at hand ; and as we waited upon him in pure silence , our minds out of all things , his dreadful power and glorious majesty , and heavenly presence appeared in our assemblies , when there was no language , tongue nor speech from any creature ; and the kingdom of heaven did gather us , and catch us all as in a net , and his heavenly power at one time did draw many hundreds to land , that we did come to know a place to stand in , and what to wait in , and the lord did appear daily to us , to our astonishment , amazement , and great admiration , insomuch that we often said one unto another with great joy of heart , what , is the kingdom of god come to be with men ? and will he take up his tabernacle amongst the sons of men , as he did of old ? and what , shall we that were reckoned as the outcasts of israel , have this honor of glory communicated amongst us , which were but men of small parts ▪ and of little abi●i●i●s , in respect of many oth●rs as amongst men ? howbeit , thus it seemed good unto the lord to choose the weak things , and the foolish things of this world , as to the aspect of me● , that no flesh might glory , that no man because of his parts might glory , or because of his streng●h or wisdom might glory , but that the glory which is his might onely be given to him ; unto whom be the glory of all his works for ever and ever , amen . and from that day forward our hearts were knit unto the lord , and one unto another in true and fervent love , not by any external covenan● , or external form ; but we entered into the cove●ant of life with god , and that was as a strong obligation or bond upon all ou● spirits , which united us one unto another ; and we met together in the unity of the spirit , and of the bond of peace , treading down under our feet all rea●oning , questioning , debating and contending about religion , or any part or parts , or practice or practices thereof , as to any e●ternal thing ; and we waited at time and times , as god did grant u● opportunities , and the more we had a●d could obtain from our necessary occasions of this present life , the better we were , and the more we were confirmed and strengthened in our hope and faith ; and holy resolutions were kindled in our hearts as a fire ▪ which the life kindled in us to serve the lord while we had a being , and ●o make mention of his name and power whilst we did live , and to hold forth that testimony which was committed to us , in the sight of men and nations , by doctrine , by practice , by a holy conversation ; and mightily did the word of god grow amongst us , and the desires of many were after the name of the lord. oh happy day ! oh blessed day ! the memorial of which can never pass out of my mind . and thus the lord in short did form us to be a people for his praise in our generation . howbeit after all this and much more , which time would fail me to write of , ( neither is the purpose of my spirit bent that way at this time ) we did come through very great tribulations , extream distresses , great perplexity , and passed out oftentimes hungry , and hard put to it both within and without ; yet such wa● our love to the lord , and such fervency in our he●rts , that we rather chused to dye , and to undergo every difficulty , than to dishonor or deny the name of christ in the midst of suffering ; because of that taste that we had of his goodness and immortal life revealed in our hearts , this young man of whom i am speaking , had his share , though but a youth at that time , of . or . years of age , because of the truth which crossed all the worlds way ; his nearest relations , even his own parents cast him off as an alien , and turned him out from their house , as not to have any part or portion therein as a son , nay , not so much as a hired servant , which this young man bore very patiently , without murmuring or complaining , having a taste of that then , which was better than all the world ; and through conversing with his people , and among them , the spirit of the lord came upon him , and the spirit of wisdom and understanding entered into his heart , and the spirit of knowledge and sound judgment came to be seated in his reins , and the spirit of prophesie came upon him like as it did upon many more , through the holy ghosts power and operation ; and he spake of the wonderful things of god amongst them that believed , and was one of the first among us which the lord opened the mouth of , to shew forth his praise , and to speak of the things of his kingdom to as many as he met with , who waited for the consolation of israel , for the riches of the gentiles , and to as many as desired and hoped after eternal life : at last the lord singled him out , & commanded him to go forth into countreys unknown to him , as he did some more besides , upon whom he laid a necessity to preach the gospel freely , without money , without price , without tythes , augmentations , gifts or rewards , and in that he was as faithful a man , none exceeding him in his generation ; for those things were an abhorrency to his heart ; & where he met with any such hireling shepherds , & deceitful workers which had gull'd the nations , and cheated the people for dishonest gain , and kept them in blindness , the indignation of the lord was kindled in his heart , and the sword of the lord was very sharp in his hand ; and whomsoever he met with which walked after this sort , they were sure to feel the weight of his weapon , and the force of his blow , by which many have been deeply wounded , that they have grinned like dogs on him , as greedy dogs indeed , because of their present wound & blow that he did give them ; and though he was but young in years , yet he was full of fortitude and true valour : the lord often times when he exercised him in such war as this , hath filled his qui●er full of polished shafts , and made his bow to abide in strength , and he was as dextrous and as ready handed , as any that i knew in his day , against the dragon and his power , against the beast and his followers ; and indeed he was very even-handed , and had a special good arm , and seldome mist the mark : god had fill'd his mouth with arguments , so that he hath often made a breach , a breach in the face of an host. and it was my lot ( which i cannot but say fell in a good ground ) to be his companion and fellow-labourer in ●he work of the gospel , whereunto we were called for many years together : and oh ! when i consider , my heart is broken ; how sweetly we walked together for many months & years ! in which we had perfect knowledg of one anothers hearts , & perfect unity of spitri , not so much as one cross word , or one hard thought of discontent ever rose ( i believe ) in either of our hearts , fo● years together , but our souls were bound up in unity and peace , having the frame of our hearts bent after one and the self same thing , to wit , the propagation of that truth by which liberty was obtained , and salvation received through jesus christ the true light of the world , seeing through his light ●he whole world to lye in wickedness ; a necessity laid upon this person of whom i am speaking , being constrained by the spirit of the lord , by which he was made an able minister of the everlasting gospel , to preach repentance , conversion , salvation and remission of sins ; and accordingly he went forth in ●he name and power of the lord jesus the saviour of mankind , and was an able minister of the glad tydings of salvation , in many , or most parts of this land ; and also he travelled thorow again and again , the whole nation of ireland , and in some part of scotland , and some part of flanders ; and his ministry ●as made effectual through the almighty power of god , in turning many from darkness to light , and from the power of satan to god ; there are many thousands who are living in the body , and alive in the truth , who can in the spirit of the lord bear testimony to the power and verity of his ministry , in many countreys where he travelled ; for he laboured much in divers places , even in the heat of the day , though he began early in the morning ; and in the beginning of his travels and labours , it was his share to break up rough places and un●illed ground ; & to walk amongst many bryars and thorns , which scratched , and pricked , and teared ; and travelled with some other , not without great opposition ; and he often trod the pathes and wayes which had not been occupied in the truth ; and where darkness had the dominion , and was as a covering , he brake through as an armed man , not minding the opposition , but the victory , and the good of all souls ; though to my knowledg his sufferings and trya●s hath not been small , nor his exercise a little , on the right hand , and on the left , in travels often , often times buffered , sometimes knocked down by unreasonable men , who had not faith , loaded with lyes , slanders , calumnies and reproaches , often in weakness , yea in deaths often , in watchings , fastings and temptations often ; in straits and necessities ; in perils among rude multitudes , in perils in idol-temples , in perils in streets and markets , where the lord did move him often to go in the beginning of his time ; besides the exceeding weight of service from weeks end to weeks end , in so much that he had seldome many hours of repose ; and of●en suffered by those spirits who lost their first love , and rose in opposition . he was very diligent and faithful , true-hearted and valiant , and the yoke at last came to be easie unto him , though no ease at all in the body as to the outward man ; for he made the work of the lord his whole business , without taking so much liberty unto himself , or about any outward occasion in this world , as to spend one week to himself ( to my knowledg ) these ten years : he had ventured himself often for the bodies sake ; and a great care i know was in his heart , that them that he had ministred unto , and others that had believed in the same truth , might thrive and prosper , and might walk as becometh the gospel of jesus christ. he was of a manly spirit in the things of god ; he hath engaged himself often upon the lords account singly in great disputes , when there were many opposers ; he hath stood in the door , and in the gap , against all his enemies , for the worthy name of god , and taken the whole weight of thing● upon his o●n shoulders , that others might be eased , though often to ●he weakening , and almost destroying of the outward man , yet doing all in love to the lord , and for his peoples sake ; he did it with chearfulness , and it was a grief to him if any opportunity was missed of doing good : he was a man of no great learning in natural tongues , which men so much applaud ; yet indeed his heart was full of matter , and his tongue was as the hand of a ready scribe and yet he had the tongue of the learned , having had experiment of the work of the lord , and being acquainted with many conditions which god had carried him through , he could speak a word in season unto all who declared their conditions unto him ; of otherways in his publike ministry he was very plausible and elegant in his speech , & indeed had the tongue of a learned orator to declare himself to the understandings & consciences of all men with whom he conversed , by which many received great profit , and their understandings came to be opened ; for his words ministred grace to the heare●● , and his words were forcible and very pleasant , as apples of gold in pictures of silver . this young man of whom i am speaking , was one of the first ( with some others ) who came to the city of london , where he met with no small opposition both from professors of divers forms , and also prophane , who heeded no religion at all , and the way of truth seemed contemptible , and without form or comeliness to them all , which made the opposition so great , and the labour so hard , that notwithstanding it pleased the lord to reach unto the consciences of many , and many were prickt to the heart , so that they cried out , what shall we do to be saved ? and god made his ministry very effectual to the conversion of many in the city of london , whereby a great change was wrought in the hearts of many , & many hundreds brought to know the lord their teacher , which are as seals unto the word of life through him unto this day . and many hundreds , i may say thousands , heard the lively word of god declared by him , and were convinced of the way of truth , though still remaining in the disobedience to that of god in their own hearts unto which he declared ; and many have lost their day which they had of hearing and receiving the things of god ; for now he is taken away which might have been a help unto them while they had time ; and all such are not worthy of him . he continued in this city very much at time and times , betwixt eight and nine years together , preaching the word of god , and speaking of the things of his kingdom to all that looked after it ; and great watching , travel , and exercise in the work of the lord ; and his earnest desire was , that all might have come to know god's salvation , and the redemption of their souls . and his great diligence was known unto many , that his only rejoicing was in the prosperity of the work of the lord , and the encrease of faith amongst them that did believe ; and his heart was much drawn towards this city ; and often times hath he said to me when suffering did come for the gospel sake , which he knew would come , i can freely go to that city , and lay down my life for a testimony of that truth which i have declared through the power and spirit of god : which in the end indeed came to be his share , and will for ever be his crown , who loved not his life unto death for the testimony of our lord jesus christ. and in the same year . being pressed in his spirit to go visit them who were begotten unto the faith of god's elect at the city of bristol , and in divers other counties , at divers meetings , and divers particular friends , he took his leave of them , saying unto very many , that he did not know he should see their faces any more ; exhorting them all to faithfulness and stedfastness in that wherein they had found rest for their souls : and said to some , i am going up to the city of london again , to lay down my life for the gospel , and suffer amongst friends in that place , as having some sence of his suffering before . and a little after his return to the city , at a publike meeting which the people of the lord have kept these many years , to hear and speak of the things of god to edification , at the bull and and mouth near aldersgate , by certain souldiers under the command of richard brown then general of the city of london , he was violently plucked down , and haled away in a barbarous manner , and carryed to the guard , and so committed to newgate , not for evil-doing , but for testifying unto the name of the lord jesus , and for the worship of god , as though this were become a great crime worthy of bonds , and ( at last ) death ; he was had to the sessions in the old baily , and his accusers were witnesses against him , and them that had abused him violently , their testimony was received as good proof against him . and at last after two or three sessions , he was fined by the court one hundred mark , which at last was reduced to twenty mark , and to lie in prison while payment ; where he continued a pretty long season , above months , with or score prisoners be●ide , upon the same account , many being shut up among the felons in nasty places , and for want of prison-room , the natures of many were suffocated and corrupted , till at last many grew vveak , sickned , and dyed . at last this same young man grew vveak , and though a special order from the king was sent to the then sheriffs of london , for the release of him and the rest that were left in prison , yet such was the enmity of some of the rulers of the city , that they did what in them lay to obstruct the execution of the order , that he should not be released : and so weakness grew upon him daily , though in much patience he was carried through all . in the time of his sickness he was very fervent in prayer ( and that often , both day and night ) unto the lord as concerning himself , and also his people ; and at several times he spoke several precious words from the sensible feeling of god's spirit in his heart , and said , i have had the testimony of the lords love unto me from my youth ; and my heart hath been given up to do thy will : and he said , i have preached the gospel freely in this city , and have often given up my life for the gospels sake ; and now lord rip open my heart , and see if it be not right before thee . another time he said when he had a little ease , there is no iniquity lyes at my door , but the presence of the lord is with me , and his life i feel justifie me . another day afterwards he said , thou hast loved me when i was in the womb , and i have loved thee from my cradle , and from my youth unto this day , and have served thee faithfully in my generation . and he spoke to friends that were about him , to live in love and peace , and love one another . and at another time he said , the lord taketh the righteous from the evil to come ; and he prayed for his enemies , and for his persecutors , and said , lord forgive richard brown , he may be forgiven . and though the distemper and the disease was violently upon him , yet he was preserved sensible ; and in the morning before he departed this life , being sensible of his death , he said , now my soul and spirit is centered in its own being with god ; and this form of person must return from whence it was taken : and after a little season he gave up the ghost , and dyed a prisoner , and shall be recorded , and is in the lambs book of life , as a martyr for the word of god , and the testimony of jesus , for which only he suffered , and gave up his life , whose death was precious in the eyes of the lord. but now he ever liveth with god , and his works follow him , and labour● shall testifie of him in generations to come ; and thousands beside my self can bear witness , his life and death was to the praise , glory and honor of the grace of god ; unto whom be the glory of all his works for ever and ever , amen . and oh thou city of london ! who hast been a professing city of the name of god and christianity so many years , must it be said of thee as christ said of jerusalem , that a prophet cannot perish out of thee : oh how many warnings hast thou had ! and how dost thou remain in obdurateness and impenitency ! oh! thou art not worthy of those heavenly tydings of salvation which hath been proclaimed in the midst of thee these many years , by this faithful messenger of god deceased , with many more , who is taken away in judgement unto thee , because many of thy inhabitants despised and set at nought that in which the blessedness of all nations consisteth . oh how is thy gold become dim ! and how is thy glory stained ! how is thy countenance marred ! how is all thy profession become dead , and thou like a withered tree without sap ! the symptomes of death are upon thee ; your sun is set , your glory is passed away ; night is coming , and darkness is surrounding you , and you shall have enough of da●kness , and your pathes and ways shall be filled with it , because you have hated the light , and would not have him who is the light of the world , to rule in your hearts ; but hath chused darkness rather than light , because your deeds are evil , and in the end thou shalt be made to see , you have chosen lying vanities , and have taken pleasure in the flesh , and have forsaken your own mercies . repent , repent ( if any can find a place ) while it is called to day , lest you be shut up in everlasting darkness , and truth be hid from your eyes for ever . take warning , cease from persecution and afflicting the lords people , who desire to live quietly and peaceably , and to worship god in truth and righteousness , with a pure heart : it is too too much that you have done already ; the suffering and death of many innocent righteous men , who have suffered these winters past , will lie as a load upon your city in summers to come . remember what god did to amaleck the first of the natio●s , and to moab when israel would have passed to their own land an● countrey that god had promised them , and have eaten their own bread , and drank their water , and have passed on peaceably ; but they rose up and fell upon the poor , and upon the hindmost and weak ; god was glad ●o force his way , though it proved the ruine of amaleck , and the misery of moab . we would gladly walk on our way to the promised land wh●ch belongs to the saints in light ; we would eat our own bread , and drink our water and what we needed , and keep our consciences clear ( in our generation we must ) to that which god hath promised ; and if we cannot have a way , god will make one for us ; and that you that set your selves against the lord , in the end shall be sure to know and feel , though we shall never lift up carnal weapon , nor drawsword , neither use bow nor spear ; for god hath taught us to love our enemies ; and out of these things we are come , and to the end of wars , and to be for it ; yet god's purpose shall be fulfilled , and he hath ways enough to plead the cause of his people , and he will do it , and wo to all their enemies . and do you cry ou● of popery because of cruelty and persecution ? and will you be found in the same footsteps , and in the same nature ? oh! let it never be said nor thought , that ever the church of god or true christians did drink the blood of the saints , or cast them into prison ; for that is babylon the mother of harlots , that doth so . therefore be informed and warned ; set not bryars and thorns in battel against the lord , neither stubble before devouring fire ; for if you do , a consumption will come upon you , and your name and memorial shall rot , dye , wither , and melt away as snailes ; and glory shall rest with , and upon the heads of the sufferers of christ for ever . by one who hath chosen rather to suffer with the people of god called quakers , than to en●oy the pleasures of sin for a season , or to be reckoned as a prince amongst the uncircumcised , fran. howgil . reading the . of the . month . and as for e.b. our dear brother and companion in travel , suffering and consolation for the everlasting gospel● sake in his day , his testimony lives with us ; he was a preacher of righteou●ness , and one who travelled for the redemption of the creature from under the bondage of corruption , and proclaimed liberty to the captives in the power and authority ●f god , and therein was a true witness against oppression , and all the antichristian yokes imposed in the night of apostacy ▪ upon the persons and consciences of people ; and truly and valiantly he held forth the liberty of conscience , and vindicated it to the great men of the earth , in things appertaining to god in matters of religion and worship , against the persecution and compulsion ( which had its original ●nd rise from the power of the beast , which hath made war against the righteous seed ) that men might be left free to the guidance of the infallible spirit of god ( which is not to be limited ) in these matters , and not be compelled nor brought under the corrupt wills of men , nor their fallible judgements nor invented forms in these cases : and the name of this mini●●er of righteousness is written in the l●mbs book of life ; and all the enemies of his life can never be able to blot it ou● , nor extinguish his memorial . oh! the remembrance of his integrity , uprightness and sincerity , hath deep impression upon my heart ; & that tender love and affection in god's truth which he was filled with towards all the upright , ( who are lovers of peace & unity in the lord ) is never to be forgotten by u● who are yet remaining in the work of the lord , and the everlasting gospel , for which he hath left a glorious testimony , the glory of which shall never be extinguished , but thousands shall praise the lord our god because thereof ; yea , even the seed that 's yet in the lower parts of the earth ( where darkness covers it ) and the child that 's yet unborn in many , that 's curiously framed in the mothers womb , w●ose members are written in the book of god , shall glorifie the lord on his behalf . and this testimony many have already concerning him , that though his body be dead , his spirit liveth in the immortality of that life that is immutable , and shall never dye nor wax old , and is felt among the righteous , who walk in their integrity and constancy to the lord. and this faithful servant of the lord , and valiant souldier of the lamb ( as in his day was evidently apparent ) as to live to him was christ , to dye was gain : and though in his time many were the sufferings and aff●ictions which his life went under , and his upright spirit suffered by , both from his open enemies and persecutors in the world ( because of the valour and courage for the truth of god ) and from deceitful and transforming exalted spirits , which burthen the holy seed ; but now his life is caught up above them all ( and is out of their reach ) in the transcendent and unspeakable glory , in the everlasting habitation and firmament of god's power , where he hath shined ( and doth shine ) among the stars , that have kept their habitations , as one that hath turned many to righteousness , and that hath overcome by the blood of the lamb , and the word of his testimony , with those holy prophets and martyrs who rejoice over babylon and her abominations ( in whom their blood is found ) and against whom he was a faithful witness and valiant warrier , whose living and absolute testimony therein , god hath blessed , made prosperous , and wil fulfil to the uttermost . and though he be ceased from his labours , his works do follow him , which wil be had in living remembrance and precious esteem among the upright , when his persecutors shall be broken and laid low in the desolation and ruine of babylon ; and all that continue in enmity and deceit , and all the deceitful spirits that have burthened his righteous soul , shall fall , and their blossome wither and come to nought . and if any of his persecutors or oppressors be yet so impenitent and obdurate as to triumph and be elevated in an exalted or prejudiced spirit , because of his death , and in their exaltation and pride of heart say , he was taken away in judgment , or in wrath . to such in gods fear i answer , that thousands of the servants of the lord are of another perswasion , not questioning but it was in gods tender love ( as to his own particular ) that he was removed out of the earthen vessel , in which he ( though a man as in the prime of his years ) endured great travel in his time for the truth 's sake , and the gathering of many into the way of the lord , and in which his travel was the greater ( when the time of his dissolution drew near ) to be dissolved , because of his suffering ( and the extremity of his sicknesse occasioned thereby ) which many others were partakers of , who suffered persecution and imprisonment by unreasonable men in this city of london , for the cause of god and of a good conscience , as chi●fly for their meeting together fingly in the worship of god. but this i testifie in the lord , as in him i have felt , that his being removed , was in judgement from the lord against his persecutors , who desired and sought his destruction ; and what they have done against him hath greatly added to the fulfilling of their iniquities , that the blood of the righteous which cryes for vengeance may be avenged to the utmost upon them who would not suffer the righteous to have a being amongst men , nor lay to heart their being taken away from the evil to come . and they who in a byassed or prejudiced spirit of enmity are lifted up because of his decease , they were not worthy of him , nor of his testimony , and they have cause to mourn and lament amongst those that have pierced the just , and slighted and despised the messengers of truth and righteousnesse , whom god hath therein honored , and god will debase such , and their vain glory unto the dust , and exalt the testimony and life of his faithful witnesses over all their heads . but we who have been well acquainted with the deep suffering of the righteous seed , and with the worth of true unity , in the weighty body and spirit of christ , and therein do behold the glory and compleatnesse of the city of our god , which is at peace within it self , cannot but prize the ministers of righteousnesse , and every member of the same body ; and oh how blessed and precious is the memorial of the righteous in our eyes ! and how deeply is my soul affected with that comfortable communion , and those many and living refreshments that we have enjoyed one with another , even with him and others , who have finished their course ! well , however in this i am satisfied , that though we be left in travel , and our days have been days of affliction and suffering for christ and the gospels sake , ( as in the world ) yet in him whom the prince of this world hath nothing in , we have peace , being come into communion with the spirits of just men , who are the family of god , written in heaven , and called by one name both in heaven and earth , and the god of life is their portion , and his glory is the rereward of his called , and chosen , and faithful ones , who have dealt their bread to the hungry , and brought the poor to their house , even to the habitation of the righteous , where the living bread is received , and the heavenly mansions lived in , and enjoyed by all who abide in the truth , and retain their first love , and habitation therein , in which true fellowship is enjoyed , and the prosperity of the elect seed known : blessed be the name of our god for ever and ever . g●orge whitehead . london the th day of the first month , . a testimony of truth concerning the servant of the lord , and minister of jesus christ , edward burroughs . friends , a necessity is upon me , and i am even constrained and pressed in my spirit to bring in and give my testimony concerning my beloved brother before-mentioned , that it may remain and stand upon record for ages and generation● to come . and this first i say and declare unto all people unto whom this shall come , that he was a man endued with the almighty power of god which lived and reigned in him ; ●nd the treasury of pure , divine , heavenly wisdom was opened in him , &c. and understanding ( in the things that relate unto god's kingdom of peace and righteousness , and in the things that concern the everlasting peace and well-being of all mankind ) was plentifully manifested unto him by the good spirit of god , which ( i may say ) he had received in a plentiful measure : and this many can testifie unto , and his own writings which remain upon record , will in a large measure manifest the truth thereof . and this spirit dwelt plentifully in him , so that thereby he wa● able to instruct many in the way of life , peace and true holiness ; and if any were afflicted in spirit or mind , by reason of the wiles of the enemy of their souls , or if they met with any difficulty in their journey , as they passed from death to life , he was a man able ( through the large experience that he had of the dealings of the lord , and also of the wiles of satan , having followed the lamb in the regeneration ) to administer a word in season to their refreshment and comfort , and for their establishment in the most precious , holy faith ; and this i know the witnesse of god in thousands must and shall testifie unto , who are the seal of his ministry . and moreover he was a man that was able ( through the wisdom and blessed gift of god that was in him ) to convince and stop the mouths of all gainsayers of the truth , which he ( with us ) professed and lived in . and it is well known unto many , that he was never backwards , but always ready and willing to appear in a way of publike conference , as in vindication of ( and against any that should oppose ) the blessed truth of god which he held and professed , and also to manifest the grounds and reasons wherefore , we deny ( and dissent from ) the national prie●ts of the world , ( and their traditional ways of worship ) and the hypocritical professors thereof , who have not the life and substance of what they profess in words . and these things ( it is well known unto many ) he was oft exercised in ; and he did not go about in corners , nor creep into dark places hiddenly nor secretly , but preached the truth of god , and doctrine of our lord jesus christ boldly and openly , even upon the house tops , and his valour for god's truth on earth , was well known unto many , and his voice was as the sound or ratling of the charriots of god's host upon the tops of the mountains , and was oft uttered forth in the name of the lord , even like thunder , and the voice of the son of god was uttered forth through him , by which the dead was raised ; the witnesses are now alive , let them bring in their testimony , that the truth hereof may be confirmed . his doctrine dropped as the oyle of joy upon the spirits of the mourners in sion . his life extended it self as a sweet stream into the hearts of the children of light that thirsted after righteousness : he was one of the cloud of witnesses that dropped down the dew upon the tender plants of god. he pleaded the cause of the innocent suffering seed , and earnestly contended with the powers of the earth of all sorts , in the behalf , and for the freedom of the suffering people of god : he fore prophesied unto them that were in authority in the days past , of their destruction , and of their overthrow , because of their deceitfulness to god , and their false and cruel , treacherous and merciless dealings towards his people , who had made many fair promises both to god and man in the time of their adversity , that they would grant free liberty of conscience in things relating to the worship of god , and that oppression should be removed , and the like ; but in the time of their prosperity , when they were waxen fat , and grown great , and lived at ease and in pleasures , then they forgot god , and regarded not to perform their engagements neither to god nor his people ; for which cause the lord cut them off in hi● sore displeasure , and brought an utter desolation upon them , according to the words of his servants , and this prophet of god lived to see their desolation come , ( which was sad to behold ) and his prophesies was fulfilled in his own days . and he also warned the present rulers of this nation to take heed of walking in the steps of them that are gone before . and for these things , and for the publishing of the truth of god , and for bearing his testimony with boldnesse against all oppression and cruelty , he was hated of the men of this gener●tion , but chiefly by some of the rulers of the city of london : he sealed his testimony with his life in bonds ; and so they have wilfully brought innocent blood upon themselves , and heavy will it lye upon them in the day of account ( which greatly hastens ) wherein the lord god wil make inquisition for the blood of the innocent , and reward every man according to his deeds ; then wil his blood be upon you as the blood of a thousand men ; and how wil you bear your sentence from the lord of hosts , because you will be found guilty of the blood of his prophets , messengers and servants , which he sent unto you in love to your souls , to forewarn you of the evil which greatly hastens to come upon you : yet notwithstanding you have done all these things , and the cry of innocent blood hath been heard so loud amongst you , yet have you hardened your hearts and go on in stiff-neckedness , and persist in your cruelty towards the servants of the lord that are left behind , and are found casting them into prison : oh wo is me for you ! where will a place be found for you in the day of the lord ? or what covering will you hide yourselves under ? or how wil you appear before the righteous god of heaven and earth ? have you no consideration in you of your latter end ? or else do you believe that the lord sees not your cruelty towards his people , that you will not answer his requirings , which is to do justly , and love mercy , and walk humbly with the lord , and to do unto all men as you would they should do unto ? surely if the consideration of these things was in your hearts , or if you had any regard to keep your consciences clear in the sight of god herein , you could never do as you have done . wherefore consider these things , and lay them to heart , and repent speedily , lest you sin your day away , and place of repentance there cannot be found : for this i tell you plainly , that it is in vain for you to strive against the lord , or to seek to stop or hinder his work which he hath begun ; for he will be too strong for you , and he will make you bow and bend to his own name and power , whether you will or no. and though he bear with you long , and suffer you long , yet his long-suffering wil come to an end ; and though you should be permitted to fulfil your envious wills and lustful desires so fa● as to banish , or kill , or destroy us from off the earth , yea all of us who are now in being , ( which i do not believe ever shall be ) yet would god raise up another people by the same power and spirit in and by which we stand , which should be a terror unto you , and should possess god's everlasting kingdom ( which is not of this world ) over your heads . and in the time of his outward weakness he was heard to say , that though this body of clay must return to the dust , yet i have this testimony that i have served god in my generation , an● that spirit which hath lived , and acted , and ruled in me , shall yet break forth in thousands ; and my faith is , that it shall be indeed even so ; for we have found him a true prophet amongst us , and ●o the nations . and this also near his departure he was heard to desire of the lord , that if it were possible , to forgive brown , &c. and so let all friends be encouraged to wait upon the lord in the feeling of the same spirit that was in him , ( which we know is the saints comforter ) that thereby you may be carried through all tribulations and persecutions with chearfulness , that in the end you may all receive the crown of everlasting righteousness with him and the rest of the saints of the most high god , and holy prophets and apostles of our lord jesus christ : and so the lord god almighty of heaven and earth be with you all , and keep you all in faithfulness unto the end , amen . my brother dear the lord hath call'd away , that in this world he should no longer stay : who was to many an instrument of good , while in the body ( in god's great power ) he stood . for many were from darkness by him turned unto the light , in which they were confirmed by the power and doctrine which to them was preached by him , through which god's true witness was reached , in their dark hearts , where satan long had reigned , over whom ( through god's great power ) victory 's gained . he was a valiant souldier of the lamb , and faithful to the lord did always stand , till with his life he seal'd his testimony , ( a london-prisoner ) as it 's known to many . but now in peace with god he is sate down , and hath with christ an everlasting crown of immortality , life and lasting joy , which never shall from him be took away . he was intrusted with the hidden treasure in a large , and in an abundant measure , which he dispensed to the lambs of god ; but to the wicked he was a scourge and rod. he fed the babes and children with the word , which to the wicked was a piercing sword : before him stil god's enemies did fall ; he never turn'd his back to them at all . but now he hath thus finished his course with joy and peace , yet 's life we do not lose : for oh dear brother , thy life i stil do feel remaining with me , else i could not wel remain behind thee with true satisfaction , because 't would turn upon me with reflexion . for truly can i say , my heart is fill'd with sorrow great , and grief is not expell'd : for oh ! the sence of my dear brother's love remains upon me , and shall never move . but herein is my soul greatly refreshed , that thy good savour and thy name is blessed , and shall remain in ages yet to come , when visibles standing now ; is past and gone . but oh my brother dear why soul did love thy life , which not●ing was , nor is above : for all t●ings it transcended , as to me ; in my esteem there 's nothing like't can be : because it stood in that eternity which always wil remain , and never dye : and ages yet to come shall tast thereof , and call thee blest , in whom it was brought forth . he was a man in whom gods power reigned , through faith , in which he a great vict'ry gained over death and hell , the grave and power of sin . and all things that were centered therein . he was a man in whom the fulness dwelt of grace and virtue , was by many felt to live in him , and speak in gods great power , and he descended as a sweet plenteous shower , which did refresh the garden of the lord , the plants that met together with one ●●cord on god to wait , refreshment to receive , and afterward in love to take their leave . he was a man that was upright in heart towards god and man , and hated all deceit : and what he was to god , there 's few do●h know , neither can my tongue or pen declare or show : but this i say , he was ● men of god , and in the light of righteousness he stood . what might i say of this my precious friend ! my soul lov'd him entirely to the end ▪ and stil his life is felt amongst the lambs who in the light and power of god doth stand : here he is read , here he is felt and known amongst the faithful , who with him are one . his savour's good , my life 's therewith refresht ; his name is now , and ever shall be blest . and now my brethren dear , and sisters all , in this be you refresht both great and small . although our brother outwardly be gone , yet hath not god the lord left us alone ; for his almighty power is with us stil , which in the light of life you all may feel to your refreshment and eternal joy , which no man in this world can take away . here is our peace , herein our joy lasts stil , in which my love is to you all , farwel , and this is my testimony for that man of god who hath been a blessing to the lord in his generation , and also to this nation : and in this i have eased my spirit , and am clear in my conscience in the sight of god , having done that which was my duty to do . josiah coale . a testimony of g. f. concerning e.b. his name is chronicled in the book of life ; a righteous plant , pure , chaste , clean : who can tax him for oppressing them , or burdening them , or being chargeable to them ? who through the sufferings hath finished his course and testimony , who is now crowned with the crown of life , and reigns with the lord christ for ever and ever . and in his ministry in his life-time , he went through sufferings by bad spirits , who never turned his back on the truth , nor his back from any out of the truth ; a valiant warrior , more then a conqueror , who hath got the crown through death and sufferings , who is dead , but yet liveth amongst us , and amongst us is alive . g. f. the end. an exhortation to friends in and about the county of worcester and elsewhere sankey, william. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an exhortation to friends in and about the county of worcester and elsewhere sankey, william. sheet ([ ] p.). printed for thomas northcott ..., london : . reproduction of original in the friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- england. persecution -- england. broadsides -- london (england) -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an exhortation to friends in and about the county of worcester , and elsewhere . dear and well-beloved friends , brethren and sisters , my spirit salutes you in the lord jesus christ , who hath gathered us together out of the land of darkness into his marvellous light , that we might walk before god in the land of the living , to the praise and glory of god our father , and the lord jesus christ , world without end , amen . now dear friends , there is something upon my mind to writ unto you . viz. that you be all diligent to meet together to wait upon the lord in your spirits ; for the lord hath appeared to you for that end to gather you near unto himself , to worship him in spirit , and in truth , in this the day of his great power , that hath made many of you willing to bear reproach for his heavenly names sake ; esteem the reproach for christ's sake great riches , and lend no ear to the unfruitful works of darkness of what name soever they may be , or how fair soever they may speak ; nor to the unfruitful works of darkness in your selves , but rather reprove them , and keep you vnder the cross of christ , which is the power of god in you , that would crucifie every evil thought , word and work in you , that through the cross you may all come to be heirs of the crown immortal ; that your souls being risen with christ , you may seek those things which are above , where christ is at the right hand of god , administring eternal life to every hungry , and refreshing every thirsty soul with his heavenly divine presence , thereby to grow in his strength over the world , and the evils therein ; the pride of life , the deceitfulness of riches and the praise of men. and friends , trust not in man , nor in the favorableness of times , but trust you in the lord ; for in his almighty power is everlasting strength , which will strengthen your immortal souls to live and love his heavenly appearance , in which is eternal life . and what christ said unto one , he said unto all , watch ; so friends , be ye watchful , and wait with retired minds on the lord , that you may receive daily bread from the hand of your heavenly father , by which you will grow up into a good vnderstanding in the things of god's kingdom , wherein you may give answer to the men of this generation that may ask you questions of the hope in you ; you may answer with meekness and godly fear , having your eye to the seed of god in you . what we have heard , what we have seen , what our hands have handled of , viz. the good god of life , that we shew unto you . and as you keep your eye to the seed of god in you ; it will keep you from desiring discourse with men of corrupt minds who are destitute of the faith of god's elect ; yet rich in profession , fair in discourse , full of deceit to draw your minds by little and little , to love and affect them and their doings ; so may you lose god's kingdom by flattery , and become vain . now the god and father of our lord jesus christ , keep your minds staid in him ; that when you are absent one from another in body you may be watchful , that your soul's enemy prevails not over you , to the wounding of your innocent life ; and when you are assembled together to wait upon the lord , be diligent and watchful , that a spirit of slumber or sleeping get not over you , but like good servants and diligent waiters in true silence for their lord 's coming , for as much as you have found your labor hath not been in vain in the lord , into whose hand i leave you with my own self who am imprisoned in body for testifying against tithes in this free gospel-day , yet at liberty in spirit in his love to praise him , who hath not only called me to believe , but made me truly willing to leave all , and suffer for his sake , to him be praise and glory , and everlasting renown who is god blessed for ever , amen . william sankey . worcester county . goal , the th . of the seventh month. . published on the behalf of truth in the year , the prisoner being yet retained . london , printed for thomas northcott in george-yard in lombard street , . to the magistrates and people of england vvhere this may come what is the matter with the christians of our age, ... fox, margaret askew fell, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing f d estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the magistrates and people of england vvhere this may come what is the matter with the christians of our age, ... fox, margaret askew fell, - . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] title from caption title and first line of text. signed and dated at end: the . day of the . month, . margret fell. place of publication from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng christian life -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . great britain -- history -- charles ii, - -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the magistrates and people of england vvhere this may come . what is the matter with the christians of our age , and of our english nation , that hath been looked upon to be a garden and a nursery in christianity and religion , beyond all other nations , that have made so great profession of god and christ , and of the scriptures ; and are they now turned persecutors and law-makers against christianity , and against those that are in the same spirit of god , power and fellowship , as they were in that gave forth the scriptures , which the people of england professeth : and are those now become the greatest enemies that england hath ? and for no other cause , but because they worship god , and obey christs command , and abides in his doctrine , and bears the same testimony of truth , and resurrection of the lord jesus christ , as the apostles did ; and all that they do , and act , and speak , and suffer for , is according to scripture , and nothing that they suffer for is contrary to the scriptures . is those things become a crime in england ? and is this the greatest offence that england hath taken with the people of god , even because they believe in the lord jesus christ , and obey his doctrine . oh take up a lamentation for england ? surely there is some heavy , sad , and grievous judgment waiting upon it . and is not hardness of heart , and a reprobate mind , and a feared conscience , one of the greatest judgments that can befall a people ? and is not this already seized upon the law-makers of england , that have hardned their hearts against the lord and his people , as if they had no other enemies but they , who never did them wrong nor hurt , nor never desired nor intended any hurt against them , but hath ever desired their good , and peace , and welfare , and that they might come to the true knowledge of the lord , and to the true knowledge of his truth , as it is in jesus , which they clearly manifest they are ignorant of , by their making of lawes against those amongst them that fear god , and worship him , and gives glory to his name , though they be free-born english men and women , nor have they transgressed any just law of england , until they were forced to make one to make them transgressors with , though they be of the same religion that they themselves profess ; they profess christ and the scriptures in words : but they that come to the works of righteousness , and to believe in the lord jesus christ , which is the work of god , such they persecute and make lawes against . so that england appears now , as if it would shut christianity out of its dominion : and what will they bring in and set up next , seing they banish out christ , and his members , and servants , and saints , and so makes them slaves that be free born english men , which have been a blessing unto them , and to the land wherein they lived , and no hurt to them ; and if they had given them the liberty of their consciences , to have served the lord god , they might have been partakers of the blessings with them : but being that they have turned their hand against the lord , and turned their swords backwards against the righteous , surely the lord will plead for this , and surely there will a recompence come , for its hard to strive against the lord , and to touch his anoynted , and to do his prophets any harm : when they were but few in number , he reproved kings for their sakes ; and he is the same now , he changes not , and his arm and power is the same , and his righteousness is the same , which is to be revealed upon the head of the wicked . and he is engaged to plead the cause of the innocent , who hath no pleader in the earth , and his eye sees and beholds all the actions of the children of men , and those that act against him and his servants he takes special notice of : and he saw the afflictions of his people formerly , when they were afflicted in egypt , and heard their cryes , and knew their sufferings . and surely he is the same now as he was then ; and as he hath said himself , in as much as you do it unto my little ones you do it unto me : this he said , when he knew that his next appearance would be in his saints . and certainly those that persecuted his saints , even without a law , when they had none , and contrary to several lawes of england , as several of the servants of the lord have suffered ; hath christs servants been persecuted by those that were in power formerly , and they that make new laws ? certainly if christ and the apostles had been and were upon the earth , they would have done the same unto them . but all these things the lord hath taken notice of , and they are written down where they cannot be blotted out ; and all the righteous blood that hath been shed since abel , and all the saints sufferings in all ages , the lord hath taken notice of , and all those christians that have suffered by those that have called themselves christians in these latter times , where several have been imprisoned till death for the christian faith. all this the lord hath in everlasting remembrance ; and when he comes to make inquisition for the blood of his saints and servants , it will be a hard and a sad day for the actors and fighters against god. so all you who are called christian magistrates , beware what ye do and keep your hands out of the blood & persecution of the innocent , and let that which is past suffice , for ye will find it heavy enoug● and for the time to come dread and fear the lord god of heaven and earth , that hath all your life and breath in his hand to give and take away at his pleasure , and do not that which may incur the lords displeasure against you , by making children fatherless , and wives widows , as there are already several in england at this day ; it is better for you to offend men than god , and so endanger your immortal souls . so mind that which concerns your eternal peace , and the eternal welfare of your souls . and this i am moved of the lord to forewarn you of , least you bring woe and misery upon your souls , and a general judgment on the whole land ; and this is true love unto you , and the desire of your general peace and good , and remember that you were warned from a prisoner of the lord in lancaster castle . margret fell. the . day of the . month , . the christianity of the people commonly called quakers asserted against the unjust charge of their being no christians, upon several questions relating to those matters wherein their christian belief is questioned. whitehead, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the christianity of the people commonly called quakers asserted against the unjust charge of their being no christians, upon several questions relating to those matters wherein their christian belief is questioned. whitehead, george, ?- . sheet ([ ] p.) printed for thomas northcott, in george-yard, in lumbardstreet, london : . attributed to george whitehead by wing. caption title. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christianity of the people commonly called quakers asserted against the unjust charge of their being no christians , upon several questions relating to those matters wherein their christian belief is questioned . question , what 's your belief concerning the blessed trinity , as our term is ? answer , our belief is , that in the unity of the godhead there is father , son , and holy ghost , being those three divine witnesses that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy spirit ; and that these three are one , according to holy scripture testimony . quest. do you believe the divinity and humanity of jesus christ the eternal son of god , or that jesus christ is truly god and man ? answ. yes , we verily believe that jesus christ is truly god and man , according as holy scripture testifies of him , god over all blessed for ever , the true god and eternal life , the one mediator between god and men , even the man christ jesus . quest. do you believe and expect salvation , and justification , by the righteousness and merits of jesus christ , or by our own righteousness or works ? answ. by jesus christ his righteousness , merits and works , and not by our own , god is not indebted to us for our deservings , but we to him for his free grace in christ jesus , whereby we are saved through faith in him ( not of our selves ) and by his grace inabled truly and acceptable to serve and follow him as he requires ; he is our all in all , who worketh all in us that is well pleasing to god. quest. do you believe remission of sin , and redemption through the sufferings , death , and blood of christ ? answ. yes through faith in him as he suffered and died for all men , gave himself a ransom 〈…〉 shed for the remission of sins : so all they who sincerely believe 〈…〉 of his suffering and dying for 〈…〉 receive and partake of that eternal redemption which he hath obtained for us , who gave himself for us that he might redeem us from all iniquity ; he died for our sins , and rose again for our justification ; and if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another ; and the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin , john . . quest. do you believe and own the divine offices of jesus christ in his church ? answ. yes , verily we sincerely believe and own christ , not only as he is the light of the world , enlightning every man coming into it ; but also that he is given for a leader , and for a commander . and that he is both king , priest , and prophet 〈◊〉 and over his church and people . he is the minister of the sanctuary which the lord pitched , and not man , and we are to hear him in all things . quest. do you believe or own baptism as essential to christianity , or necessary to salvation , and for the ingrafting us into christ and his church ? answ. we believe and are fully perswaded , that baptism which is essential to christianity , and the saving baptism , or the cause without which none can be true christians , or saved , is the inward or spiritual washing of regeneration by the word of life . this is the saving baptism into christ and his church , which produceth the answer of a good conscience towards god , of which the outward was a figure , pet . . this is that one baptism of christ by one spirit into that one body , whereof christ is head. as to dipping or sprinkling infants , or young children we find no precept or precedent in holy scripture for the practice thereof , and therefore we cannot think our not believing it essential ( or necessary ) to salvation , or making christians ; a sufficient argument to prove us no christians ( unless it can be proved that none are saved without it , and that all are saved that have it . ) considring also what 's po●itively affirmed in the articles ; as in the th article , that whatsoever is not read in the holy scriptures , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man , that it should be believed as an article of the faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . and in the th article , that the church ought not to decree or enforce any thing against or besides holy writ , to be believed for necessity of salvation ; and in article . that things ordain'd by general councils as necessary to salvation , have neither strength nor authority , unless that they be taken out of holy scripture . quest. do you believe or own the lords supper , either as a sign of the love that christians ought to have among themselves , or as a seal of the saints communion and commemoration of christs death for us , or as figurative of christs body and blood spiritually received by faith. answ. the supper of the lord we own , and tenderly consider in a twofold sense , . in the figure . . in the substance . . that our lord jesus christ at his supper with his disciples , did eat the passover ( which was for the fulfilling and consummation of the feasts under the law ; ) see luke . and at this supper he did take and minister bread and the cup to his disciples ( for there was no transubstantiation ) saying , this do in remembrance of me ; and said the apostle , as often as ye shall eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye shew the lords death till he come , cor. . after this they did more clearly know his coming : and christ after the spirit ; jesus christ in them , cor . . & . . . and christ said to his disciples , i will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine until that day i drink it 〈◊〉 with you in my fathers kingdom , mat. . . and likewise of the bread , i will not any more eat thereof , until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of god , luke ● . and he further said , i appoint unto you a kingdom as my father hath app●●nted to me that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom , &c. luke . , . ● these things we believe he spoke mysteriously , and that every member of his spiritual church , doth daily spiritually partake of his body and blood by faith , is the cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the blood of christ ? and the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of christ ? for we being many are one bread , and one body , for we are all partakers of that one bread , cor . , , . the son of god saith , behold i stand at the door and knock , if any man here my voice , and open the door , i will come into him and will sup with him , and he with me , rev. . . and wisdom calleth to the simple , come eat of my bread , and drink of my wine , prov. . , . and saith christ , the bread of god is he that cometh down from heaven , and giveth life unto the world. i am that bread of life ; my flesh , is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed , he that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and i in him , john . we believe that all who thus do truly partake of christ by faith , are in true communion and love among themselves , which they do want who are only in the outward observations of sign and shadows . quest. do you own the seals of the new covenant ? answ. yes , as the new covenant is spiritual , so are the seals thereof ( as they may be termed ) proper to it , and therefore we believe they stand not in any ex●●●nal shadow , sign or figure , but in spirit and substance , the seals of the new 〈…〉 ( which is inward and spiritual ) must needs be the evidence , testimony and interest in that covenant . see what the holy scripture see cor. . . who hath also sealed us , and hath given us the earnest of the spirit in our hearts . ephes. . . after that ye believed ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise . and ephes. . . and grieve not the holy spirit of god whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption . our christian sense and belief in these matters may be briefly summ'd up in what follows , viz. . we believe , that the spiritual appearance , and living enjoyment of christ in spirit , is above all outward signs , shadows , or figures , or a remembrance only of him thereby . and that christ more clearly discovers himself by his spirit in the new covenant , than by any outward representations in the old , or thereunto appertaining . . that the one baptism of the spirit is a seal or confirmation of the new covenant to true believers , and of them in it ; and so is their spiritual eating and drinking with him in his kingdom a certain assurance , seal or evidence of their spiritual communion with him , and in him . . as all outward shadows and figures were of a decreasing nature , so there is the substance thereof , which they pointed at , and wherein they ended , though the names given to the shadows were carried along to the substance also , that it might the more plainly appear in scripture how the shadows were fulfilled in the substance christ ; as in the old covenant there was outward circumcision of the flesh ; in the new , there is the inward circumcision of the spirit . in the old , there was divers washings or baptisms , heb. . . in the new , the one baptism of christ ; in the old , the feast of the outward passover kept with unleavened bread , and other feasts observed , &c. in the new covenant , jesus christ is our passover , and the feast is to be kept with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth ; and here the one bread of life is known and received . . we do not read nor find in scripture , that one outward type or shadow , was a type of another type outward , but alwaies of the thing typified or shadowed forth , which was the substance and end of that shadow or type , as may be shewn at large , if any undertake to shew us any shadow or thing that is figurative in its own nature ( mentioned in scripture ) which they suppose we cannot shew the substance of , under the same name or title . quest. do you believe and own the holy scriptures , contained in the books of the old and new testament , to be given by divine inspiration , and to contain all matters of doctrine and testimony , &c. necessary to be believed and practiced in order to salvation , and peace with god ? answ. yes , we do , and by the assistance of the grace and good spirit of god , which gives the true understanding of the mind of god , and meaning of holy scripture , we alwayes desire to live in the faith , knowledg and practice of them in all things appertaining to life and godliness , holy scripture being given by divine inspiration , is profitable for doctrin , correction , and instruction , that the man of god may be perfect , thorowly furnished unto every good work , able to make the man of god wise unto salvation , through faith in christ jesus . writ in behalf of the people of god called quakers , by some of them . london , printed for thomas norhcott , in george-yard , in lumbardstreet , . the oppressed prisoners complaint of their great oppression: with a loud call to englands magistrates for the exercise of impartial justice, before the wrath of the lamb break forth. with a brief relation of the unparallel'd proceedings of the court, at the old baily, the fifth day of the fifth month, . blackborow, sarah. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the oppressed prisoners complaint of their great oppression: with a loud call to englands magistrates for the exercise of impartial justice, before the wrath of the lamb break forth. with a brief relation of the unparallel'd proceedings of the court, at the old baily, the fifth day of the fifth month, . blackborow, sarah. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london? : ] signed at end: written by s.b. a prisoner, i.e. sarah blackborow--wing. imprint from wing. verse - "repent, o england, for what thou hast done". printed in two colomns. reproduction of original in the folger shakespeare library, washington, d.c.. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- doctrines -- early works to . quakers -- persecutions -- early works to . prisoners -- legal status, laws, etc. -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the oppressed prisoners complaint of their great oppression : with a loud call to englands magistrates for the exercise of impartial justice , before the wrath of the lamb break forth . with a brief relation of the unparallel'd proceedings of the court , at the old baily , the fifth day of the fifth month , . repent , o england , for what thou hast done to god's dear lambs , and to the holy one ; oh hearken to the doleful hideous cry of god's dear ones , that in your prisons ly . the fatherless in thee , oh england , cry and groan , because of bonds and cruelty ; for great oppression , it doth much abound , as touching justice , it cannot be found . the widows now , indeed , are made a prey , their bitter cryes are heard , still , day by day ; and in the ears of god their cryes do come , they shall be heard by christ , the holy one. wo unto england then , when god shall plead the righteous cause , of innocents ; indeed if england now should plead , it is not guilty of any crime that now is counted filthy , what mean you then , by halling every day god's worshippers to prison ; yea , i say , what law of god have we indeed offended ? that by your souldiers we are apprehended , and in your filthy goals are fast secur'd , and yet no crime against us is procur'd ; what sin is done ? or law have we offended , that justice stops , and surely is suspended ? if that offenders we , indeed , must be , wherefore in court , our charge , could we not see ? what is the crime that we committed have ? let 's hear we pary , for justice we do crave : for we indeed , as free-born english men , for justice cry , which is our right : agen what charge is laid against us , in this day , save in the matters of our god , i pray ? is liberty of conscience now a sin , tho promised by the word of a king. beware , o rulers , then , how you oppress god's heritage indeed , who do no less than his most royal law strive to obay by meeting in his fear , yea day by day : take heed , oh rulers all , how you oppose the marked one of christ , whom he hath chose . oh tender , as the apple of his eye , are they to him : harm them not least you dye . the day will come that you will howl and cry because of torment and of misery . repent oh then , for what you have now done , ye magistrates , and hearken to the son. in london streets you needs must here a cry of cruelty , and sore captivity ; offenders scape , and just men apprehended , surely for this our god is much offended . nine score prisoners , in newgate now doth ly for justice , justice , there aloud do cry ; besides many goals , in england round about , god's heritage are prisoners without doubt . most poor , and from our wives and children rended , and here abus'd , when we should be defended . and when unto the bar we there did come , looking for justice , but yet finding none , we call'd to see accusers , face to face , but met with violence , to your disgrace : when no accuser in your court was found , a snare , immediately , you did propound . and when in soberness we made our mone , that no such thing , in conscience , we could owne , but justice did there come for to behold : your officers and halberteers were bold to pull and hale poor prisoners at the bar , while we aloud for justice crying were . instead of shewing justice in that day , back to the goal they haled us away . where patiently , through grace , we do abide till god the controversie shall decide . take heed oh rulers all , and now give ear , the coming of our lord is very near : fulfil the righteous law of god , oh then in doing justice to the sons of men : and learn to walk in humbleness of mind , then to god's chosen ones you will be kind . and do them justice , while it 's call'd to day , before grim death doth snatch you quite away : for after death to judgement you must come and give account to god , what you have done . at his tribunal seat , oh you must stand to answer to your charge ; it is at hand . where christ and conscience will be your accuser , right , evidence will be without refuser . oh with the adversary then agree , yea while you find him here now in the way , else dreadful will the day of judgement be to rulers , and all goalers , they shall see . repent therefore before it be to late , and labour to escape the cruel baite , that satan layes to catch your souls therein , and harm no more the children of the king. the judgement day will prove most dreadful sure , repent o england , better fruits procure : for dreadful will the lamb of god be then , to all such rulers , that do rule for men . come let the captives of the lamb go free , to serve there god and king with loyalty . 't is not your prisons , bars , or boults will scare god's children dear , or make them for to feare . the spoiling of their goods , or banishments also will not make such decline the truth i know , that do engage to meet now in god's fear , according to his will , they must appear ; his righteous laws , they must and will obey , and to their meetings go , yea day by day . therefore take heed oh rulers what you do , harm not christs pretious flock , though they are few ; for god himself it is that takes their part , but rather to gamaliel's counsel hark , refrain from these men , and let them alone , for if their counsel be of god , he 'l own what they shall do , and with them he will go , ' gainst rulers all , who seek their overthrow . this remnant of the lord , whom he hath chose , fear then , thus day by day still to oppose , and careful be you fight not against him , least he in pieces tear you for this sin . therefore repent , and hearken to his voice , and set the captives free , that have made choice to follow christ , the lamb of god , indeed for follow him they must , and will with speed . his day of vengeance is now drawing nigh , repent , oh england , and at christ's foot lye . the day is nigh that vengeance it must come , decree'd by god , the father and the son : when the sixth angel with 's vial doth appear , we may conclude , that jesus christ is near . then wo to those that persecuters be , christs dreadful wrath and vengeance they shall see . the vials of god's wrath on such will come for all the violence to zion done . break off your sins by righteousness , i pray , then happy shall you be , as christ doth say , and reign as kings with christ , upon his throne , if ye repent , surely he will you owne . for all the violence to sion done , repent o england , and now kiss the son. written by s. b. a prisoner for the testimony of jesus . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e mat. . . exod. . . isa . . , . dan. . . acts . , . mat. . . deut. . jam. . . mich. . . cor. . . mat. . . luke . . chron. . , . thes . . , . isa . . . luk. . , . heb. . . isa . . . psal . . , , . acts . . acts . . jer. . . rev. . , — . ezek. . , , , . jer. . , , . isa . . , , . rev. . . psal . . last . a vvarning from the lord to the inhabitants of underbarrovv, and so to all the inhabitants in england, where it shall meet with them, who holds up the false teachers, and false worship, and who beats, stone, stock, and persecute, and hail out of their assemblies, those who are sent by the lord, to speak his word freely; with an exhortation, that they hast to meet the lord by true repentance, by putting off the works of darkness, lest the lord cut them assunder, by his sword, which is already drawn and put into the hand of his servants. also, a word to my brethren, and companions in tribulation in the kingdome and patience of jesus christ, who is by the world scornfully called quakers. with the manner of my passage through the dark world, (wherein the simple ones may see the deceits of the man of sin in his actings like the true spirit) to warn all to follow the true light within, which leads unto god, & to beware of the voice, lo here & lo there, by one who is a labourer in the vineyard, who is not known to the world; (though named of the world) edvvard burrough. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a vvarning from the lord to the inhabitants of underbarrovv, and so to all the inhabitants in england, where it shall meet with them, who holds up the false teachers, and false worship, and who beats, stone, stock, and persecute, and hail out of their assemblies, those who are sent by the lord, to speak his word freely; with an exhortation, that they hast to meet the lord by true repentance, by putting off the works of darkness, lest the lord cut them assunder, by his sword, which is already drawn and put into the hand of his servants. also, a word to my brethren, and companions in tribulation in the kingdome and patience of jesus christ, who is by the world scornfully called quakers. with the manner of my passage through the dark world, (wherein the simple ones may see the deceits of the man of sin in his actings like the true spirit) to warn all to follow the true light within, which leads unto god, & to beware of the voice, lo here & lo there, by one who is a labourer in the vineyard, who is not known to the world; (though named of the world) edvvard burrough. burrough, edward, - . [ ], p. printed for giles calvert, and are to be sold at the black-spread-eagle, at the west end of pauls, london, : . annotation on thomason copy: "april: .". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng quakers -- early works to . underbarrow (england) -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a vvarning from the lord to the inhabitants of underbarrovv, and so to all the inhabitants in england,: where it shall meet with them, who burrough, edward c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vvarning from the lord to the inhabitants of underbarrovv , and so to all the inhabitants in england , where it shall-meet with them , who holds up the false teachers , and false worship , and who beats , stone , stock , and persecute , and hail out of their assemblies , those who are sent by the lord , to speak his word freely ; with an exhortation , that they hast to meet the lord by true repentance , by putting off the works of darkness , lest the lord cut them assunder , by his sword , which is already drawn and put into the hand of his servants . also , a word to my brethren , and companions in tribulation in the kingdome and patience of jesus christ , who is by the world scornfully called quakers . with the manner of my passage through the dark world , ( wherein the simple ones may see the deceits of the man of sin in his actings like the true spirit ) to warn all to follow the true light within , which leads unto god , & to beware of the voice , lo here & lo there , by one who is a labourer in the vineyard , who is not known to the world ; ( though named of the world ) edvvard burrough . london , printed for giles calvert , and are to be sold at the black-spread-eagle , at the west end of pauls , . a warning from the lord , to the inhabitants of vnderbarrow , and so to all the inhabitants in england . to all you the inhabitants of vnderbarrow ( profane ones and professors ) you my neighbours and country men according to the flesh ( but strangers as in the spirit ) to you all who are in the customary , formal , traditional worship of heathen , and under the barren , dry and empty ministry of man , which stands in the will of man , and have proceeded out of the carnall inventions and imaginations of fallen man , and is not according to god , nor to the practice of the saints in former ages and generations . to you all do i clear my conscience in the presence of god , by declaring to you in writing , being that i can not have freedome ( through the subtilty of the serpent , who doth work alwayes to prevent the living truth to be declared , and the deceits of himself to be discovered and made manifest ) to declare in word among you : i have been sent by the lord moved of him to come , and to declare to you the word of the lord , to the directing of your minds , where to wait to attain the true knowledge of the lord , and of that one thing needful , the eternal welfare of your souls , and to lay open the deceits of the serpent , who doth work in the cursed deceitful ministry , which is uphold by you , whereby your souls are kept in the death , and only your dark minds fed and nourished by the painted and serpent-like expressions and declarations , coming out of the carnal wisdome and brain-knowledge of your hireling , who walks in the way of the false prophets of israel , which the true prophet called greedy dumb dogs , four several times hath the lord by his eternal spirit working in me , moved me to come into the congregation and assembly , he himself is the witness that i came not of man , nor by the will of man , but contrary to the will and desires of man , wherein stands the true ministry of god , now as it was ever , the true prophets , ieremiah and ionah witnessed the same , and the apostle paul , and as it is known to you unto whom i speak , that i could not have liberty to declare to you the truth from god , who came not to you with entising words , neither what i had gathered out of the scripture from without me , neither to speak my own imaginations and conceivings , as your false hireling doth , but to declare the word of the lord , to the convincing of your dark understandings , that you might see the deceits by which you are and have been led , that your souls might have been redeemed up to god , out of the imagined worships of the world , to worship in spirit and in truth , hear ye the word of the lord ye people , all your carnall , traditional ordinances and observances is abomination to the lord , all your praying and praising is odious in his sight , for all your worship is an imitation and an imagination of the dark mind of man , and was never commanded by god , therefore consider all ye people what you are doing , and reject not the lord , nor his everlasting truth , but prize your time , and now seek the lord while he may be found , and call upon his name while he is near , your souls are kept in the death under your dead minister , and under his dead doctrines , dead reasons , points and uses , which he speaks from the saints conditions and experiences , but is an enemy to the substance , and to them in whom the same conditions are made manifest in the power of truth , and he doth make manifest himself to be in the same generation of them , who had the form of godliness , but denies the power ; having the letter as the pharisees had , but persecuting the substance as they did : all people consider whether he be not in the generation professing god and truth in word as the scribes and pharisees were , but persecuting the son of god , who is the substance of truth , where he is born and made manifest , he is in the generation of them who professed abrahams freedom , and that god was their father , but were of their father the devil ; for his works they did , they said , and did not , as he doth , as it is made manifest , he is a whited wall , a painted sepulcher , which christ the son of god cryed wo against , who was and is the light , by which all deceivers , hirelings , and false teachers , are discovered , & cryed out against : the light which is christ , do i witness to be made manifest in me from god the father of light , daily leading me up to him , to live in purity and uprightness , praises be to him for ever , in which light i see your teacher to be a hireling , a greedy dumb dog , seeking for his gain from his quarter , one that god never sent , but hath run and was not sent , therefore doth he not profit you at all ; and from this light , which is christ , do i declare against him , as knowing him that he hath not the word of the lord , but the letter : freely do i declare against him , as knowing him to be a deceiver , and an antichrist , being once i was deceived by him , but now through the rich love of my father , who hath made himself known to me , and hath shined by his eternal light in my heart , do i see him and all such to be antichrist , and no minister of christ : from the mouth of the lord i do declare it , that you are led blindly by him ; your blind guide and you are ever learning , and never able to come to the knowledge of the living truth by his ministery ; he layes heavie burdens upon you , he is in the generation of them who had the law and the prophets , but persecuted him who came to fulfil the law , and who hath the substance of the prophets ; he hath the saints conditions and experierces in the letter , but who are brought to witness the same conditions and the same strait way in which they walked ? he is an enemy to all people , to you from god i do declare it ; he is one that god never sent to speak his word to you , he calls good evil , and evil good ; and puts light for darkness , and darkness for light ; and therefore wo is his portion , and wo is the portion of all that upholds him : what will ye do in the end thereof ? he doth bewitch you to observe , that calling is an ordinance of god , which he never commanded : poor people ! your souls lies in the death under the power of darkness and corruption , under your dead minister , and under his dead carnal observances ; and your dark minds , your wit and reason is only fed , and so the enemies of the lord are strengthned by him , and you remain in ignorance and in blindness , and cannot attain the true riches ; for christ only is the way to the father , the light in every man which leads to the father ; but this light he denies as having enlightned every one that comes into world , as several times he hath done to me in argument : here he makes christ a lyar , and doth not know the first principle of religion , nor the light which leads unto god , but is a heathen , and knows not god , for this is the light which all the servants of god in all generations witnessed , and which light we do now witness , praised be the lord for evermore , who hath in his light led us to himself , and hath shewed the deceits of him to us , and of all such as he is ; he is in the generation shutting the kingdom of heaven against men , neither entering h●mself , nor suffers others to enter that are entering : through the power of the lord made manifest , am i bold to declare against him , who walks not in the doctrine of christ , and therefore is an antichrist and doth deceive you , professing himself to be sent of god , and walking contrary to the truth of god ; a hypocrite , saying , and not doing : ye my country-men , be not deceived by him , try him by the scriptures , and see how he walks according to the declaration , as they did who were ministers of christ , not by the will of man ; but his ministery is by man , and according to man , and had his call from man as it is known to you all ; but they who were true ministers witnessed the contrary , neither received they their gospel from man , but by the revelation of jesus . the true ministers of christ , sent forth by christ , witnesses now the same thing , for christ , the same that ever he was , which is now made manifest in the saints , and his ministery is the same , which is not by man , but contrary to man ; be not deceived , god will not be mocked , for he is terrible , and his day is powerful and dreadful , that shall come upon the heathen , and upon the workers of iniquity , and upon all d●ssemblers and hypocrites , all your carnal worship , and ordinances , and observances , is but mocking of god , and dissembling with him , and is but an imitation and an imagination of the mind of fallen man , imitated by you and your minister , droven by the imaginations from the true worship of god , which the saints in former generations was exercised in , who was led , not by imagination , as you are , but by the spirit of god , as all the servants of god are : now as ever was , true baptism ●own , which is by the holy ghost and with fire , and the baptism with one spirit into one body do we witness ; but that which your chief priest and false hireling hold up , i deny it ; it is not of god , but is an imitation , and is abomination in the sight of god ; and therefore from god do i declare against it , and against your hireling that upholds it among you . true communion of saints i own , for we have union , and the bread , which we break is the body of christ ; and the cup which we drink is the blood of christ , by which we are nourished and fed up to eternal life ; for he that eats not christs flesh and drinks his blood , he hath no life in him , he among you that can receive it let him , but your communion i deny , for it is heathenish , and no more but an imitation , having proceeded out of the imagination of the proud : your breaking of bread , and drinking of the cup is abomination ; and god never commanded it , and this doth your pharisee uphold , sitting in the seat of christ and of the saints , as the pharisees did in moses seat , saying , and not doing : true singing i own with the spirit and with understanding , singing in the spirit , making melody in the heart to the lord , this singing was and is among the saints in the church of christ , this is well pleasing to god , for it is not an imitation , nor by tradition , as your singing is , but it is true sacrifice , the song of the redeemed ones , which none can learn but the redeemed ones of the lord , who is come and coming to zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads ; but your singing is carnal , traditional , and heathenish , and is an imitation , and is not with the spirit of jesus , but with the spirit of the world , with the spirit of drunkards , swearers , lyars , mockers , scornners , covetous ones , with the spirit of wrath , envie , malice , with the spirit of cain , with the spirit of the scribes and pharisees , and chief priests , who persecuted the saints which sang in truth in former generations , and now the deceit is turned into the form of singing , and they that live there , persecutes them that sings in the power ; for thus it was ever , they that lived in profession in the word outwardly , persecuted them that lived in the power of which was professed , and there you and your hireling is ; but know that the lord will take an account of you , and give unto every man his reward , according to his deeds : you and your priest , have got the form of baptism , of the communion , of singing , and of a church ; but the power and substance of these ordinances you know not , for they are hid from all vulturouus eies , and from the generation of the pharisees , and serpents , who are called of men master , and which have the chief place in the assemblies , as your hireling hath , and who is called of men master , as they were which christ cryed wo against : true preaching of jesus christ crucified we own and do witness , for the preaching is out of the will of man , out of form and custom , and is foolishness to the wisdom of the world ; now as it was ever , this is not with the inticing words of mans wisdom , but in the demonstration of the spirit , and of power , and the preaching of the word of faith , which is nigh thee in thy mouth and in thy heart , that preaching we do own , for faith comes by the hearing of this word preached , and the prayer with the spirit of truth we do own , for that is not in word to be seen of men , but led to that , not by custom , form , and tradition , but by the eternal spirit , which proceeds from god , which hath free recourse to god , which god heareth and doth accept , for there iniquity is purged out of the heart and is not regarded , for he that regards iniquity in his heart , god will not hear his prayer ; but the preaching and praying of your hireling i do deny , for they are abomination to the lord , for his preaching leads from god , stands in his own will , in his own time , in form , custom , and tradition , and your souls are not refreshed by it , neither is true faith known among you ; for how can he being evil speak good things ? a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit , said he ; who cried wo unto them that said and did not , in which generation he is , how can he teach and direct toward true religion , being he denies the corner stone , the first principle of religion , which is the foundation , which no other can any lay , the light of god , which hath enlightened every one that comes into the world , which he denies to have enlightened every one ; poor people ! i do pitty your souls ( god is my witness ) to see you lie in darkness , in ignorance , and blindness , and in deadness , under your dead hireling , and under his dead traditional preaching ; your wisdom , reason , and dark minds is only fed and strengthned by his preaching , and you all are but building upon the sand , hearing but not doing , and we , who have suffered the loss , and have witnessed the destruction of that building , do now declare freely against it where it is standing , for we know the depth , height , and breadth of all your profession , and of all your carnal worship , and observances ; and the word of god is as a fire , which will burn up ; and as a hammer , which will beat down all your imagined worships and carnal ordinances : and his praying is abomination to the lord , for it is as theirs was , which the son of god cryed wo against , which stood praying in the synagogues , and which made long prayers , and the praying of all such we do deny , for their prayers is as the scribes and pharisees was , who were called of men masters , as they are now , and who were sayers and not doers , as your hireling is ; therefore all you people consider , and diligently weigh these things : if i declare to you the truth , own it without respect of persons , if i speak a lye , let me be accounted as accursed for ever ; and all you simple ones , who are seeking the living among the dead , who are in the simplicity , seeking after the truth , and yet are bewitched to observe that which god never commanded , and to seek god in that way which he was never found in , for christ alone is the way to the father , and he is but one from generation to generation ; in all generations for your sakes do i lay open the deceits of your hireling and chief priest , who is in the way of balaam , following the wages of unrighteousness , and do advise you as from the mouth of the lord ▪ to cease from man , whose breath is in his nostrils , and to cease from all your customary carnal observances , which god never commanded , but is only an imitation , and an imagination ; your souls are kept in death , under the power of corruption , pride , drunkenness , covetousness , oppression , and earthly-mindedness , wantonness , and the lustful nature ruling is head in you , and among you are that generation that draws neer god with their mouths , but your hearts goes after covetousness , and are far from the lord ; ye worship an unknown god , and are persecuters of the true god , and of his servants , as ever it was in all generations by priest and people , as it is now with you and your priest , they that professed truth in word , persecuted them that witnessed the power , the horrible filthy thing is committed among you , and you love to have it so , but what will you do in the end thereof ? you are in the generation of your forefathers , who spoke good of the false prophets , but persecuted the true prophets ; so it is now among you , he that hath the word of the lord from the mouth of the lord to declare unto you , him you revile and mock , and scorn and persecute , but he that speaks the imagination of his own heart from the saints conditions , him you own and hear , and here you shew your selves to be them which christ spoke of , which would receive them that come in their own name , but will not receive him that cometh in the name of his father ; repent , and turn to the lord , lest his judgments come upon you and destroy you with an utter destruction ; the day of the lord is terrible and dreadful , which will come upon the wicked , and upon all the workers of iniquity : be ashamed ye heathens , you maintainers of the greedy dumb dogs , and upholders of the horrible filthy thing , the persecuters of the righteous seed ; the contemners of the just , the generations of serpents , who cries , let barrabas go free ; ye generation of hypocrites , who professes god , but persecutes the son of god where he is made manifest , of this generation , in which you are : shall all the righteous blood-shed be required even from abel ? repent , and cease from all your former waies and doings , from pride , drunkenness , covetousness , and oppression , from lying , swearing from mirth , and wantonness , and vain pleasures , for the day of the lord cometh that shal burn as an oven , and the proud , and all that do wickedly shall be as stubble , fully dry , for the lord will be avenged of his enemies , and render vengeance in flames of fire upon all that know not god , and that obeys not the gospel of our lord jesus christ : who can stand when he appears ? who can dwell with everlasting burnings ? even he that doth righteously , and that is purged from iniquity : but then wo unto you all hypocrits and professers , and to the wicked and profane ones , ye shall all partake of the righteous judgment , and drink of the cup of the lords fury and indignation , for your iniquities are seen , and your transgressions are not covered from the lord ; all your profession will not hide you from the presence of the lamb , for in your sacrifices are found deceit , and in your offerings lodges iniquity , the mouth of the lord hath spoken it , therefore be ashamed of all your profession , and of all your glorious carnal ordinances , for the lord is coming to uncover you , and to make you and your profane hireling manifest , for god is pure and holy , and no iniquity dwels with him , nor none that works wickedness , therefore stop thy mouth thou hireling who preaches for hire , & devines for money ; and leans upon the lord , and useth thy tongue , and saith , he saith it , when the lord never spoke to thee : thou art in the generation of the scribes and pharisees , and be ashamed ye upholders of him , for now every tree that brings not forth good fruit , must be hewen down , the lord hath said it , his word is as a fire , which will burn up all the wicked ; his word is sharper than a two edged sword , which will cut down and wound the head of the wicked ; ye mockers & scorners , ye swearers and liars , ye proud & covetous ones , ye merry-hearted and wanton ones , dreadful is the day that shall come upon you , the lord will make his power known , and glorifie himself in your destruction , except you repent , and turn to the lord : ye hard hearted ones and rebellious ones , the plagues of god is to rest upon you , therefore prise your time , and repent , and fear the lord god almightie , and lay aside your vain wicked waies , and confess your sins , and forsake them , for such shall find mercy : all ye people , mind the light of god within you , and hearken to that which shews you what is sin , and evil , which shews you your proud minds , your carnal coveteous desires and affections , which checks and reproves you for your ungodlie deeds ; this light shines in darkness , but the darkness cannot comprehend it : this is the light which hath enlightened every one that cometh into the world , which light is christ , he that follows this light walks not in darkness , but hath the light of life ; he that hates this light stumbles , and walks in darkness , ignorance , and blindness , as you do , turning the grace of god into wantonness , which same grace is the saints teacher , this is the free grace of god which hath appeared to all men , which in all generations taught the saints to denie ungodliness and wordlie lusts , and led them into puritie and holiness : this grace do we witness , praised , praised be the lord , to be led by it , which ever was the saints leader , and through the teaching of this grace do we denie your hireling , and all such pharisees and hipocrites , who makes a prey upon the poor people ; and if you stop not into their mouths , they even prepare war against you , as the false prophets of israel did ; and dailie are we taught by it in the waies of god to do his service , praised be the onlie lord of glorie for evermore , who hath gathered us up to himself ( to be taught alone by his grace ) out of the mouth of your hireling , who once made a prey upon us , but eternal praise and glorie to our god , who in his light hath discovered unto us his nakedness and his shame , his hypocrisie and deceit , in the eternal light of god do we see him , and all such to be blind guides , and leads the poor blind people in darkness and in ignorance , and none is able to come to the true knowledge of the eternal truth in his ministerie , for he is no minister of god , but an anti-christ , denying christ to be come in the flesh , denying the light to have enlightened everie one , as several times he hath done to me ; but my father who is light and glorie , hath now made him manifest : and in that light christ jesus , do i see him to be one whom hath run , whom god hath not sent , therefore doth he not profit you at all , nor puts no difference from the precious and the vile in you , nor leads you to discern the clean from the unclean , the pure from the impure in you , but speaks the divination of his own brain , feeding your dark minds , and from the eternal light made manifest in me from god the father ( who is over all , and above all ) do i declare against him , and against all hirelings and greedie dumb dogs , that seeks for their gain from their quarter , as he doth , freelie do i declare as knowing them to be deceivers and blind guides : for the simple ones sake among you , who are insnared and kept in ignorance by him under his dead , drie , barren , sloathful ministerie ; repent ye people , who lies in the captivitie of babylon , under your babylonish merchant , now is the lord leading his sons and daughters out of egypt out of bondage , and now he that hath led captive is led into captivitie , praised and honored be the god of saints for evermore , who hath redeemed us out of the mouth of your idol shepheard who feeds himself with the fat , and who hath enlightened our dead consciences , and hath shined in our hearts , in his eternal light , and of this have i received freelie , and from this do i let forth freelie , to the laying open the deceits of your hireling : now is the day of your visitation , wherein the savior of the world stands at the door and knocketh , if anie open to him he will come in ; therefore prise your time , and hear the word of the lord , and lay aside the works of darkness , lying and swearing , mocking and scorning , and beating of your fellow servants : wo unto you ye strikers , who hardens your hearts against the lord , and against those who declare to you the wickedness of your waies ; the lord will come when you are not aware , and give you your portion with hypocrites and unbeleevers , and cast you into utter darkness : repent , and turn to the lord your god with mourning and lamentation , and cease from all your former waies and doings ; cease from covetousness and oppression , ye aged people ; and cease from lightness , vanitie , and pride , ye yong people ; and from all your priests and steeple-houses , for there your lightness , pride , and vain minds are fed and nourished , and the enemies of the lord are strengthned . dear people , there had i once fellowship with you in your pride , lightness , and vanitie and there was once my joy and delight ; but now am i chosen by the lord out of all these things praised be him for ever , to serve the lord , in declaring against all these abominations , in whom they are standing : for , wo unto the proud and light vain minds , who are tripping upon the mountains , and whose hearts are not subject to the lord ; against all these abominations do i declare as from the lord , and do advise you as from him , to depart out of these abominations , for the day is coming when you must be separated from all your lovers , a day of darkness and miserie ; therefore prise your time , and hearken unto the light of god within you , which reproves you for your filthie and ungodlie deeds and words ; this light will lead you to god , out of all filthiness , obeying it ; this will separate the clean from the unclean in you , and will lead you to be taught of god , and to have unitie with god , and with the saints ; for it was in the light that the saints had unitie ; this light will lead you out of your hypocritical and deceitful carnal worships , to worship in spirit and truth ; this light will lead you to the true baptism , out of your deceitful imitation of a baptism , which your hireling upholds among you ; this light will lead you to the true church in god , out of your formal imagined church , and to the true communion of saints , and true singing to god , out of your heathenish communion and singing : therefore all ye people mind the light , for the light hath enlightened everie one , which is the savior and redeemer of him that loveth it , and bringeth his deeds to it , but is the condemnation of him that hateth it , and walks not in it ; therefore all people mind this light which is of god , this will lead you up to god , this is the way to the father , and none comes to the father but by me said he who was , and is the light ; this light loving it and walking in it , will free you from all the burdens which the pharisee lies upon you , and from all the taxes of pharaoh's tax-masters , and will lead you into the mysteries of the kingdom of god , to know him who is invisible , and is present everie where , yet hidden from all dark minds , who lives in the imaginations and imitations , as you and your hireling doth : if you love this light and walk in this light , it will bring you to be witnesses of the scripture and of the saints conditions which you are but talkers of ; this is the ●ight from which they spoke that spoke the truth of god , and from this light did isa. cry who lived in the obedience of it , against the greedie dumb dogs , that sought for their gain from their quarter ; and did jeremiah , ezekiel , micha , and malachy , cry against hirelings , and against those that said , the lord saith it , and he never spoke to them , and against them that preached for hire , and that divined for money , and that taught for the fleece , and yet leaned upon the lord as your pharisee doth , saying , is not the lord among us ? and from this same light do we declare against all such , and seeth them to be abomination to the lord , now as they did then , praised , praised be the lord for ever , for now the abominations of the whore is made manifest that sitteth upon manie waters , that hath made all nations drunk with the wine of her fornication , and now is the judgment of the whore come , and the day wherein she must reckon to drink the wine of the wrath of god ; and he who was , and is this light , cried wo against then that said , and did not ; and against them that had the chiefest place in the assemblies , and that were called of men , masters : this same light do i witness , to be made manifest from god the father of light , and am not ashamed to declare it before men , for he that denies christ before men , he must be denied by christ before the father ; and this light lived the saints in , and spoke from , who were called mad-men , and deceivers of them that professed truth in word , but persecuted them in whom the son was born and made manifest , in which generation you and your priest dailie makes manifest your selves to be , therefore repent , and come down ye high minds and lifted up spirits , for the lord is against you , and hearken to the light of god in you , and wait in it according to measure , and cease from all your formal , customarie , traditional worshipping , and from all your dumb teachers , who are antichrists , and denies the light as having enlightened everie one ; this light is the onlie way to the father , which all must ( who comes to god ) follow and walk in , for he that walks not in this light , walks in darkness , and stumbles , and knows not whither he goes ; and there are all priests and people in darkness and ignorance , who walks not in this light ; therefore love the light and obey it , it will separate you from all filthiness and corruption , and lead you into puritie and holiness , without which none shall see god , and here is your teacher alwaies present with you , which teaches to denie ungodliness , and the wicked waies of this world ; he who walked in this light , by this light saw all the world to lie in wickedness , but said they were of god , and all that were of god heard them who dwelt in the light , but he who disobeyes this light , follows the blind guids of the world as you do , and sets up teachers to themselves having itching ears , and that ministerie is of man , and by man called to the ministerie by the earthlie powers , by earthlie magistrates , or at oxford , cambridge , or newcastle , all this ministerie , who is here called is by man , and their gospel is of man , which the true gospel is not , and he that hath the word of god to declare from god , his call is not by man , neither doth he go to man to be approved ; for he that preached the true gospel , consulted not with flesh and blood , and so it is now , the same thing do we witness , and to be ministers of the everlasting gospel , called not by man , but by god , praised be the lord for ever , from generation to generation , who hath revealed himself unto babes , and hath hid himself from the wise and prudent of this world ; stop your mouths ye ministers , which is by man , which gospel is according to man , for now the lord is arising , whose angel is gone forth preaching the everlasting gospel : sing praises to the lord for ever ye redeemed ones , who are brought from under the emptie , dead , deceitful ministerie , which is by man , to be true witnesses of the true ministerie which is of god : therefore be ashamed ye upholders of the deceitful ministerie , which is but the ministerie of witchcraft , by which your eies are darkned , and under which your souls lieth in blindness and ignorance under the power of witchcraft and sorcerie ▪ be confounded ye back-sliders , who once heard the word with joy , and received it ; who were once among us , yet not of us ; who hath chosen the glorie of this world , rather than the everlasting truth , and hath sold your birth-right of the everlasting inheritance , for the satisfying of your earthlie minds , with the earthlie treasures : hear the word of the lord ye sloathful servants , who not abiding waiting upon god , eats and drinks with the drunkards , and beats your fellow servants , and are now become haters , mockers , and revilers , suddenlie will the lord come and cut you all asunder , and give you your portion in the lake that burns with fire , except you repent : repent you back-sliders , and consider ye that forgot god , now while you have time , before the lord swear in his wrath that ye shall not enter ; hearken to that which convinceth you of your filthiness , the light of god within you , which shall eternallie witness us to be true , which light shall be your condemnation , because you love darkness rather than light ; ye are returned with the dog to his vomit , and with the sow to the wallowing in the mire , your latter end is worse than your beginning , and the parable is fulfilled upon you , for lying against the truth will the lord plead with you , and wo will be your portion for ever , for the liars shall not enter into the kingdom of god ; therefore all people fear the living god , and prise your time , and see where you are , his servants you are unto whom you do obey ; all must give an account to the living god , and must receive according to what is done in the bodie ; in such an hour will the master come which you are not aware of , and will take account of your stewardship , for god hath given unto everie one a talent , therefore spend not awaie your time in wickedness , and in a deceitful profession of god , feeding your dark minds with the dead formal preaching , of your dead carnal blind pharisee , but hearken to the light of god within you , and improve everie one his talent , the good and faithful servant improves his to the honor and riches of his master , but the sloathful servant hides his in the earth , living in the filthiness , saying he hath no power ; now see which servant you are , and read your selves within , how you stood covered in the presence of the living god , for wo unto him that is covered but not with the spirit of the lord ; the servants of god brings forth fruit unto god , bears the image of their father , and the servants of the devil brings forth fruits of darkness , and bears the image of the devil , which is glorious to the carnal eie , and feeds the carnal mind : the seed of the woman is but one in all generations , and the seed of the serpent is but one , which ever was , is ruling and reigning in the children of disobedience , who are disobedient to the light of god within them ; and betwixt these two seeds is enmitie , the one against the other , each seed is known by its fruit ; the old bottle pours out old wine , the new bottle new wine ; therefore all people sink down to within , and call in all your wandring thoughts , imaginations and affections , and desires , and see which seed is head in you , and see what your desires and affections goes out after , for where your hearts are , there is your treasure ; see what you do possess of god in your souls , and what you are made witnesses of , for he that believeth hath the witness in himself , and faith is the victorie over the world , he that can receive it ▪ let him : dear people , i have freelie declared to you the truth , and from the love of god shed abroad in my heart to your souls , and for the seed sake in you , which lieth in death , captivated under your wisdom and reason , have i spoken the word of the lord , which if you own it , and abide in it , shall be the savor of life , and in eternal joy shall you witness me to be true in what i have declared , but if you harden your hearts , and kick against the truth , and against what i have declared , shall be the savor of death unto death , and in eternal torment and miserie shall ye witness me in what i say , for to that which should exercise the conscience do i speak in everie one of you , and to that in you have i cleared my conscience , and have freed my spirit ; this is the day of your visitation , the mouth of the lord hath spoken it : remember that you have been shewed the deceits which you live in , and have been warned of the miserie and desolation that shall come upon you , except you lay these things to heart , and turn to the lord . farewel . by him who is dispised , and had in derision among you , who is not greater than his lord ; and therefore is contented to be called a blasphemer and a seducer , as he whom i serve was , by them of your generation . e. b. to all you my countrie people of everie degree , who are inhabitants in vnder-barrow , have i cleared my conscience , and have freelie declared to you the word of the lord , and have laid open the deceits of your deceitful ministerie and minister , and have directed you to that in everie one of you which leads unto god , and which is the way to the father , which is the true light which hath enlightned everie one that comes into the world , which light all who loves and follows , walks not in darkness , but walks up to god out of the fall , from under the curse , into the being ; but all who hates this light , and follows the imagination of their own brains , and of the divination of their hirelings and pharisees , this light shall be their condemnation , because they walk not in it ; even this light , which is come into the world in everie man , even the witness in the conscience which is placed by god , shall for ever witness against you , and against all your false worships and hirelings , and shall bear testimonie to what i have in this little volume declared to be true , when the book of conscience shall be laid open , for to everie mans conscience am i made manifest in what i have to you declared as concerning your hireling whom god hath never sent , but is in the way of the false prophets and pharisees , for he that abides not in the doctrine of christ hath not god , john . . but is an antichrist , and of the devil . and as concerning the light within you , that light will bear witness to it self , that everie one of you to whom i speak , hath this light , which shews you sin , your lying , swearing , pride , and wikced waies , covetousness and wantonness to be sin : this is the true light , which is , as ever was , foolishness and a stumbling block to the wise ones : this is the light which your pharisee denies to have lightned everie one , and this light shall for ever witness me to be true , and shall witness this poor people among you who is despised & contemned by you , & scornfully called quakers , to be the servants of god , whom i do own as my brethren in the sufferings of jesus , who are my joy in the lord . now all people everie where , to you all , a word from the lord , though i have spoken in this small volume , as moved by the lord of heaven and earth , to the inhabitants of vnderbarrow , as declaring against their false teacher , and false worships which they uphold : now freelie and plainlie do i declare against all thy teachers , o england , who are one in the same generation with him in the seat of christ , and of his apostles , professing themselves to be sent of god , but walking contrarie to his commands , in the same footsteps which the scribes and pharisees walked in , which were persecutors of the son of god ; and which he cried wo against , they who said and did not , as all these thy teachers do , who are called of men masters as they were , and have the chiefest place in the assemblies as they had , and praied standing as these thy professed ministers do : now the same light which ever was , the saints did , which is , jesus christ is now born and made manifest , which is witnessed among the saints , in which light i see all thy teachers , o england , to be drunk with the wine of her that hath deceived the nations , who sits upon a scarlet coloured beast , and is arrayed in purple and scarlet colour , and decked with gold and precious stones , and hath the golden cup in her hand full of abominations , whose name is writen in her forehead , mystery , babylon the great , the mother of harlots , and abomination of the earth : and in this light do i declare against them all which are in the generation of the false prophets of israel , which seeks for their gain from their quarter , and which steals the word from their neighbor , and have taken the words of the prophets of christ and of his apostles and selleth the divination of their own brain upon the scriptures , which the holie men speak forth freelie to the poor blind people , and teacheth for the fleece ; and if ye stop not into their mouths , they prepare war against you , and which are called of men master , which christ forbids : against all these freelie ( as from the lord ) i do declare to be no ministers of jesus christ , but are seducers , and blind guides , and are antichrists , and leads the poor blind people in the waies of death and destruction ; for they are no ministers of christ that abides not in the doctrine of christ : these have run , but hath not been sent by god , and therefore is not your souls profited by them , but are in the dark heathenish nature , as by your fruits is made manifest , leaning in the imaginations , and not in the counsel of the lord , and in lying , swearing , drunkenness , covetousness , and oppression , and according to the course of this world ; these iniquities are ruling among people , priests , and rulers in this nation , from the least of them even to the greatest , everie one is given to covetousness , from the prophet even to the priest , everie one deals falselie : all your hirelings and greedie dumb dogs i do denie , and all who are of god denies all such , and are taught of god in the waies of god , which ever the world derided : all thy teachers , o england , is denied of them who are taught of god , and whose teacher is the anointing , needs not anie man to teach them : and by thy teachers who are in the way of the pharisees , art thou blindlie led in the waies of darkness and ignorance , and all thy carnal worship , which is in everie part of thee upheld , which is to read , sing , and preach upon the saints conditions , which were witnesses of god : all this i do denie and freelie declare against as from the mouth of the lord , to be no worship of god , but imagination and an imitation of the worship of god : and the living eternal god of heaven and earth is but mocked by you , in your imagined worship ; for your reading of anothers condition , and singing of that which you live not in , and preaching that which is gathered from without by imagination , and conceiving upon that which the prophet prophesied , or which christ spoke , who was , and is the substance , and which the apostles witnesses ; this is carnal and heathenish , and was never commanded by the lord , nor is no worship of the true god , and against this worship i do from the lord declare , as in the eternal light of god seeing it , to be deceitful and abomination to the lord , being i am redeemed up to god by his eternal spirit , and to worship in spirit and in truth , and am not limited to a day , place , or time ; neither at jerusalem , nor in this mount , &c. and am freed and redeemed out of this fallen mans invention and tradition , which is but cains sacrifice , which god doth not accept , but is abomination in his sight , praised be the lord for evermore . and o england , i do declare against all these thy teachers , and against all this thy worship , as from the mouth of the lord , as moved of the lord to speak this word unto thee , thou hast spent thy money this manie generations for that which is not bread , and thy labor for that which doth not satisfie thee , all thy imagined formal worships and carnal traditions and ordinances of man is the lord risen in his servant to declare against : and the same light which ever made manifest deceitful worships , and the deceitful hirelings , and them that cried , peace , peace to the people when the lord spake no peace , is now risen and speaketh in thy ears , o nation , the same everlasting light , which the true prophets lived in , who cried against them that sought for their gain from their quarter , and that cried against the horrible filthie thing which is upheld in thee , o england , this same light is made manifest in the despised people , called quakers , in this north part of the nation , o people ; your teachers hath beguiled you , and have taught for the fleece , and fed themselves with the fat , but your souls are hungred by them : for they are in the generation of them that said and did not , they love the wages of unrighteousnes , and follows the error of balaam for reward , and have devoured souls for dishonest gain ; but the onlie true god is arising to beat the mountains to dust , and to cleave the rocks asunder : in thee , o land , will the lord make manifest his power , and will stretch forth his arm for the deliverance of his chosen , and for the redemption of his two witnesses , which hath laid slain in the great city in this land , which they that dwell upon the earth have rejoiced over , and made merrie , and triumphed in their slaughter ; the lord is arising to require his flock at the hands of the idols shepheard . o ye idol dumb shepheards , the lord will be avenged upon you , for you have scattered the sheep of his pasture , and have fed your selves with them ; the lord of hosts is grieved with you , and have shaken his hands at your dishonest gain , and ye shall no longer wear garments to deceive ; ye have long deceived the simple by your lies , and by your lightness , but now you are discovered and made manifest in the eternal light of god , and the mysterie of witchcraft is not hid now from the saints : therefore , o england , hear the word of the lord , thy prophets are light and treacherous persons , thy judges , judges for reward , and thy priests preach for hire , and thy officers imprisons the just , and thy rulers are evening wolves , which seeks for the prey , and the lord of heaven and earth is grieved with these things , therefore , o land , tremble at the presence of the lord god of jacob , for esau shall become a place for dragons , and shall be disinhabited in the day of mourning , and lamentation is coming upon thee , for that which the lord hath not planted will he pluck up , and everie corrupt tree shall be cast into the fire : all thy corrupt judges , and officers , and rulers will the lord cut off utterlie from the face of the earth , and will restore to his people judges as at the first , and counsellers as at the beginning : the mouth of the lord hath spoken it : therefore , o land ▪ prepare to meet the lord thy god by true repentance , by putting off the works of darkness , thy pride and thy oppression , o nation , is seen by the lord , and the cry of the oppressed through thy pride and tyrannie is heard in the eares of the lord of sabbath , and he will avenge the cause of the poor and needie ; that is , oppressed by priests in their tythes , by lawyers in their fees , and by officers in their unrighteous dealings : and the seed of abraham shall go free , and israel shall no longer be subject to pharaoh , nor to his tax-masters . o england , in the north part of thee is the light of god arisen , which shines clearlie , and which discovers the abomination of thy teachers and of thy worship , and we are bold to declare against them , and against all thy corrupt officers , judges , and rulers , and this light shall shine through the nation , and shall be spread over kingdoms , and the fire is to be kindled which the lord hath promised , which shall burn as an oven , and the proud and all that do wickedlie , shall be as stubble : this fire shall proceed out of the mouth of the two witnesses , as it did before they were slain , and shall devour the enemies of the lord : the sword of the lord is drawn in thee , o nation , and put into the hands of them which is hated and despised by the rulers and officers , which is scornfullie called quakers , but they shall conquer by the sword of the lord which the lord hath put into their hands , over countries and dominions : for , o nation , the lord is with them , and thy unjust rulers and officers cannot hurt them , not a hair of their head shall perish without my heavenlie father : it is for a testimonie of their fathers love to them that they suffer shame and reproach , and some of them imprisonment by the unjust rulers , and for a witness against them that some of them are brought before them , the lord is chusing the weak things of this world , and he is making manifest his counsels to babes , and revealing his counsel and eternal truth to children , and keeps his hidden treasures from the eyes of the wise , and vulturous ones , praises , praises be to him for evermore : for the lion of judah is opening , and hath opened the sealed book , let all his saints rejoice for evermore . this is the day of thy visitation , o nation , wherein the lord speaks to thee by the mouth of his servants in word and writing , therefore return to the lord thy god from whence thou art fallen : now will the lord gather his jewels and chosen ones out of thee , and will raise up the dead which lies slain under thy teachers and pharisees , which makes a prey upon the people , which was never sent by god to speak unto thee . o land , hear the word of the lord , depart from all thy teachers , for the lord hath drawn his sword , and lifted up against the false prophet , and the vials of indignation shall be poured upon him , and upon , all that hpholds him in his whoredoms , and witchcraft , by which he deceiveth the simple ; therefore lest thou be partaker of their plagues , depart from them : and all people , mind that measure of light within you , which the lord hath lightened everie one of you withal , for the lord is risen to teach his people himself , and he is fulfilling his prophesie in thy ears , o nation , they shall teach no more everie man his neighbor and every man his brother , saying , know the lord ; for they shall all know me , from the least of them unto the greatest of them saith the lord ; for i will put my law in thine inward parts , and write it in their hearts , jer. . . the lord is about his great and wonderful work in thee , and all the wars and contentions in thee , o land , hath but been a making way for this work of the lord , and hath not been the work which the lord hath purposed : this work is made known to them that feareth the lord , and abideth in his counsel : the lord will overturn , overturn the nation , and will create new heavens and new earth , wherein shall dwell righteousness , in which all the chosen of the lord shall rejoice for evermore ; and all the kings and nobles shall cast down their crowns before this glorie : and all the men of war shall lay down their armour and weapons of war : and nation shall not lift up a sword against nation any more : for the lord will establish righteousness and peace ; this will the lord bring to pass in thee , o england , through the destruction of that which now liveth , and through the resurrection of that to life which now lieth in death : hear , o land , give eare , o people , for the lord of heaven and earth is now turning the world up-side down , all old things shall pass away , all things shall become new by fire , and by his sword will the lord plead with all flesh , and the slain of him shall be manie ; corrupt judges and officers will the lord sweep away , and their name shall no more be found in the nation , the fire is kindled and the sword is drawn , happie is he that keepeth himself from fighting against the lord in this his work , & happie are ye , o brethren , that stands faithful to the end to see these things accomplished , great shall be the battel , it is now begun , many shall see death , & shall yet live to see these things . to all the despised and contemned ones , who are persecuted , and shamefully entreated by the generation of the chief priests , and by them who liveth in the highest profession in the word outwardlie , ye who are the scorn of the nation , and the derision of all the heathen , and are called quakers ; you are my brethren , children of my father , have been brought forth by the same womb , and have sucked the same breast ; ye are chosen out of the world , out of all worldly glories , and earthlie excellencies , and are not of this world , and therefore the world hateth you , you are brought out of the broad way of the flesh , & are separated from all the world in their waies , worships , and forms of religion , and are redeemed out of the mouths of all idoll dumb shepheards , and hath one shepheard , and are gathered from all the mountains , and out of all the desolate disinhabited places , and are come into the pleasant sheepfold , where is green pastures and fresh springs of living waters : by faith with abraham are ye come out of your native countrie from among your kindred , and out of your fathers house : and with moses have you forsaken the glorie of pharaohs house , and chused rather to suffer affliction among the poor despised people , than to have enjoied the pleasures of sin ; but great shall be your reward ye contemned ones , glorie , and honor , and everlasting happiness is prepared for you if you , stand faithful to the end , the lord is with you as a mightie terrible one , and therefore shall all your persecuters be ashamed and confounded , the sound of a trumpet is heard among you , which makes all nations at a stand , and all the heathen to wonder , and all the rulers , nobles , and chief priests are in consultation , combining together to suppress the armie of the lord of hosts , which he is gathering together : fear not , nor be dismaid , for the sounding of your trumpet causes an alarum , and makes all the inhabitants of the land to tremble , and all bowes before the sound of it ; for the sound of it is terrible to the nations , to all kingdoms and dominions the lord of heaven and earth is your captain , which rides upon the clouds , and whose glorie is above the world , and therfore in the battel shal you obtain the conquest , and all your enemies shall be put to flight , and one of you shall chase a thousand , for he is with you who hath all power in his hand , and all your enemies are limited by him , therefore be not discouraged at the raging and swelling words of your adversaries , but be bold and valiant and faithful to him , for his is the victorie , and by his own right hand will he get himself the victorie ; ye are my fellow souldiers and fellow members of the same body , and my joy in the lord , stand faithful to the lord and be bold and valiant for the truth upon earth , for you hath the lord chosen of all the families of the earth to place his name among , the lord of glorie is among you , and he will glorifie his name by you , he wil accomplish his wonders , and make his power known , and the greatness of his name in the sight of the heathen , let all flesh be silent before him , and let all the pharisees , and chief priests , & the wise men of the earth stop their mouths before the lord , for you have the word of the lord , and you are made partakers of the everlasting wisdom , and are the beloved of god , for his eternal son is born and brought forth among you , and therefore doth the wise men and chief priests consult to take his life ; but wo unto you persecuters , for they are the seed of evil doers , and better it were that a milstone were hanged about their necks and they cast into the sea , for the lord hath sought you to worship him , and he is worshiped by you in spirit and in truth , your sacrifice is accepted , and therefore they that are of cains generation persecutes you seeking after your blood : you are made partakers of the blessing , and therefore doth esau threaten your destruction , but your preserver is the lord of hosts , and therefore shall all their consultations be disappointed : for wo unto them that digs deep to hide their counsel from the lord , and that takes counsel but not at the lord ; all ye my brethren , be ye faithful and obedient to him who hath called and chosen you out from among the heathen , out of all imagined worships to worship in truth , serve the lord in singlness of heart , and give up all to him freelie to be ordered and disposed by him , & look not back at the glorie of sodom , nor at the riches of egypt , but follow him , who hath enlightened your dark understandings , & hath gathered you up by his eternal light , walk in obedience to the law of god , and to the light made manifest , for the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far countrie , which hath given talents to his servants to improve , now all you my beloved ones , improve every one your t●●●… that the lord may receive his own with usurie , that he may be glorified , and that you all may receive a reward , therefore all be bold and valiant in the truth , and fear not man but fear the lord god almightie , and walk in the fear of the living god and despise not the cross of christ , but let the cross be your rejoicing , for through the cross is the power of the lord made manifest : rejoyce for ever and be exceeding glad that you are counted worthie to suffer shame and reproach , and some of you imprisonment for the truths sake : thus it was ever , he that was born after the f●esh , persecutes him that 's born after the spirit but be glad and rejoyce in the lord , for you hath he chosen and called even to shine as light in the dark world , and to be as a burthensome stone to the nations , your fame is gone abroad through nations , and because of the man child that is born is the nations troubled and the chief priests and rulers combined together , but that the lord may be glorified , and for your sakes will he scatter the proud in their imaginations , and will break in pieces the snares which the pharisees & chief priests have laid for your feet , and they shall be taken in their own craftiness , & fall into the pit which they have diged for you , for the lord , who hath called you , will set you upon a rock , & will preserve you out of the mouths of cunning wolves who devours souls for dishonest gain : sing praises for ever to the lord our god , who hath chosen us to make manifest his love and truth unto , and hath gathered us up out of the mouth of all idolshepherds that made a prey upon us , and from all the mountains & hills where we were scattered in the cloudy & dark day , where we were devoured by the wild beasts , being without shepheard and sheepfold , but praises , glorie , and honor for evermore that we are freed out of the crueltie of pharash , & from under his tax masters , which lies heavie burdens upon the people , rejoyce and he glad in faithfullness & truth unto our king for ever , who is the lion of the tribe of judah , who hath opened the book , and unlosed the seals , and hath led us to himself , and by suffering under all are we made kings and priests over all for evermore , he alone is worthie to be praised , who hath avenged us of our adversaries , & hath given her to drink of the wine of the warth of god , who once made us drink of the wine of her fornication ; i am with you , you despised ones , and my prayers are for you , and the eternal glorious god of power be with you , and keep you in the middest of this crooked and perverse generation , for this generation seeks the blood of the saints ; the beast , which was , is , and now makes war against the lambe . e b. a true declaration , and a discovery to all the world of my manner of life ; what i have been , and what now i am at present . i was brought up by my natural parents in the profession of religion , according to the generalitie of this nation , going one day in seven to hear a man preach the word , as they said to me , and to be exercised in the formal worship wch was then upheld , to reade and sing , and to rabble over a praier ; but i was wanton and light , and lived in pleasure , without the fear of god , not knowing of god but by hear-say , and tradition ; but when i grew up toward twelve years of age , somthing stirred in me , and shewed me , that there was a higher religion than that i was exercised in ; and then i inquired where the chiefest of the presbyterian priests preached , and would have gone some miles of a first day to have heard one of the best of them , which seemed liker truth than the other , and so i got up to be a presbyterian , and followed the highest of the priests and professors of that form , and grew in favor with them , then some small of my vanity and lightness i left , and pride grew up in me , for wisdom grew up in me , then some of my former acquaintance began to scorn me , calling me a round-head , and the like ; and by my laboring here , i gathered knowledge in things without , but yet was ignorant of the living truth : then when i was about seventeen years of age , it pleased god to shew himself a little to me , and somthing struck me with terror , and when i had been praying , i heard the voice often , thou art ignorant of god , thou knowest not where he is , nor what he is ; to what purpose is thy prayer ? and so much fear and dread came upon me , and broke me off from praying manie times , and trouble came thick into my mind , and fearfulness fell many times upon me , and i was struck off my delights that i formerly loved , and what i had gathered in as of a god , died ; and i left off reading in the scripture , for somthing shewed me that i was very ignorant , and knew not the true god , and the beauty of all things vanished ; and i went to some , asking , what god was , which was professed ? for i said , i knew him not : but got no satisfaction from any . and i was much separated from the vain waies of the world , and from vain worldlie people , and was made to reprove manie , often , for wickedness , in words and actions , and was much derided , and looked upon scornfully by manie ; and then the preaching of them whom i had formerly much delighted in , was as withered and decayed , yet then it pleased the lord to snew himself a little in love to me , and i had sweet refreshments coming in from him to my soul , and had joy and peace in abundance , and openings of the living truth in me , which the world knew not of , and the mysterie of the scripture was somthing opened , which before i knew nothing of , and i saw manie glorious things in it , which lie hid under the letter ; and i was in much rejoycing manie times , and sang praise , for i was brought out of the land of darkness , & could say , i was in the light , & i grew up to know high things ; but not knowing the cross of christ , i ran forth in my wisdom comprehending the mysteries of god , having a light shined in me , and i grew up into notion , to talk of high things , for it was my delight to comprehend in my busie mind thus being ignorant of the cross to keep low in it , i ran before my guide up into comprehension , and then was i above manie of the priests and professors , and followed only to hear the highest notionists , that preached high things , but the fleshlie man was at libertie , and so i became one of them in their discoursings , and was looked upon by them to know much ; the former terror was gone , and i had got up from under the judgement , and now pride grew more than ever , and self-conceitedness and presumption , and fleshly liberty to the carnal mind , and my delight was much in discoursing , where i played the harlot , and the prodigal , and gave holy things unto dogs ▪ and cast pearls before swine ( for wisdom was hid from me ) and here i lived pleasantlie , for i had the true god , and the true truth in my comprehension , which by my wisdom in the light i had comprehended , and i had the world in my heart , pride , coverousness , and the earthly spirit ruled , and my delight was grown up to that , which once i had no delight in , and the beauty of things grew up , which seemed to be vanished , here i was run from my husband after other lovers , and had left the lord my maker , who had so graciously made manifest himself unto me , and had spended my portion among harlots ; but i became to be darkned , and had lost that which once i had , and had but in memory that which before i had injoyed , could tell of experiences , but they were dead to me ; and somthing within me began to question how it was with me ; for i saw my self to be ignorant more than formerly , and i saw i knew nothing ; somthing desiring in me to be from whence i was come , but i grew to be much given to the world to seek after riches , and glorie in it ; and ▪ fed my self with what i had formerlie enjoyed , and said , whom god loves once , he loves for ever : ( but that was then head , and ruled in me , which he loved never ) i was wanton , and lived in the lustful nature , among heathens , crucifying the lord of life , but the blood of that which i had slain , cried continually , and the witness which laid slain , would give me no rest , which the earthly made merrie over ; and i grew to be weary of hearing any of the priests , though never so high , for somthing , which shined deep in me , shewed me ignorance in all profession , and i was put to a stand many times in my self at those things , which were come to pass ; then it pleased the lord to send his true and faithful servant and messenger , who is called according to the flesh , geo. fax . be spoke the language which i knew not , notwithstanding all my high talking , for it was higher , and yet lower : and it pleased the lord to speak to me by him , that i was in the prodigal state , and above the cross of christ , and not in the pure fear of the lord , but full of corruption and the old nature , though i had professed freedom , yet it was but such as the jewes professed ; for i saw my self to be in bondage to my own will , and to my own lust ; and through the word of the lord spoken to me by him , i began to see my self ( the witness being raised ) where i was , and what i had been doing , and saw i had been making an image to the first beast , which had the wound by a sword and did live , whose deadly wound was healed , and was full of airie notions and imaginations , and was worshipping the image which i had made , and then i saw my self to be a child of wrath , and that the son of the bond-woman lived , and that harlots had been my companions , and was no more worthie to be called a son : then trouble and distress came upon me , such as was not since the beginning of the world , and i was at my wits end , and a day of thick darkness and trouble , a day of weeping , and mourning , and miserie , and a day of vengance and recompence , came upon me , such as i had never known ; one vial of wrath after another , the great whore was to be judged , and to drink of the wine of the wrath of god , which had made me once drunk with the wine of her fornication , and then i separated from all the glory of the world , and from all my acquaintance , and kindred , and betook my self to the company of a poor despised and contemned people called quakers , and now am i one in that generation , which is , and ever was , hated of the world , by the chief priests and pharisees , and generation of serpents , and hath chosen rather to suffer affliction with a poor despised people , than to injoy the pleasures of sin with the great multitude ( though the worldly pleasures was not wanting to me ) and now do i bear witness against all forms of religion , and false hirelings , and chief priests , who walks in the steps of the scribes and pharisees , and of the false prophets of israel , and was never sent of god to declare his word : and do freely declare against all out-side profession , and notion , and do witness geo. fox to be a true minister of god , one that speaks the word of the lord from his mouth , one who was sent of god , and who is the servant and messenger of the living god , he is the friend of god , and wo unto his persecutors , they are the seed of evil doers ; and now i am despised of my neighbors and carnal acquaintance , and is not greater than my lord who was called a blasphemer and a deceiver as now i am , but praised , praised be the lord for evermore , who hath separated me from the world and worldly glories , and hath made me a partaker of his love , in whom my soul hath full satisfaction , joy , and content : thus have i travelled through the world , even unto the end , and am now come to the beginning of that which never shall have end , which the dark mind of man knows not . e. b. i am a prisoner for the truth sake , and for declaring to man of his wickedness , and of his transgression , of the spiritual law of god which is spiritual , and for writing of a letter which was written from god , to shew to man of his wicked waies , and how he stood in the presence of god , as by the spiritual light of god ( which shines in the hearts of his servants ) was discovered and made manifest unto me , for who speaks , writes , or declares , from the light of god ( which doth discover all the dark paths of fallen man , and all his spiritual wickedness ) speaks , writes , and declares not as from man , whose light is only natural and carnal , ( which is darkness in the pure light which is eternal ) but as from god , whose light is spiritual , and doth make manifest the secret whordom of fallen man ; and from this light did the prophets and ministers of god , who were sent by him to reprove sin and transgression , speak , write , and declare , and in this light did the true prophets jeremiah , and hosea , discover israel to be adulterous , and in the presence of god to be guilty of whordom , from whose presence they declared : and all now who are sent of god , to reprove for sin and iniquity , declares from the same light of god , and by the same spirit which jeremiah and hosea did , for the pure light of god is but one , from generation to generation , in all generations which discovers sin and iniquity , the same light now , as in the time of the prophets and apostles : and from this light ( which is not carnal , but eternal ) did all the holy men of god write , and declare ; and all who are sent of god now , witnesses the same light , and speaks from the same light now , as they did then ; for , who cannot witness this light , are no ministers of god , neither ever were sent of god , to declare the truth from god , but are deceivers and blind guides , and speaks from the natural and carnal light , the imagined and supposed light , which hath not seen the living and spiritual god ; for declaring by writing to a man that he is guilty of all manner of wickedness , naming , pride , drunkenness , and whordom , i am imprisoned ; i wrote not as from man , whose light is only natural and carnal , and doth only make manifest carnal transgressions , of a carnal law , but as from the eternal and spiritual light , which doth make manifest spiritual transgressions of a spiritual law ; and in this light , is he to whom i wrote , guilty of all manner of wickedness : now this which i declared from god who is spiritual , is above the reach and comprehension of the carnal and earthly law , for by the natural light through the earthly law , is no natural man able to judge , of that which is spoken or declared from that which is eternal , and spiritual , ( for darkness cannot comprehend the light ) which light all the servants and ministers of god are guided by , to act , speak , or write ; and therefore do i deny to have this cause put into the judgement of carnal lawyers , who judges by the natural light , through the earthly and carnal law , yet willing i am before any authority to answer for my self , that whereof i am accused , but to the judgement of earthly magistrates i do not stand , but to the judgement of the living and eternal judge , who judges not according to the sight of the eyes , and hearing of the eares , but who judges with equity and righteousness , thus rather i chuse to suffer imprisonment in the body , yet free as to god in the truth , waiting to be redeemed , not by the earthly powers , through the earthly law , but by him who is eternal , whose law is eternal , who orders all things by his mighty power , to which power i give up my self to be kept in it , and ordered by it continually . here i have given to all people the ground of my imprisonment in the particular of it , though i might in few words have declared the thing ; for between the seed of the woman , and the seed of the serpent , is enmity put ; and he in whom the seed of the serpent is ruling , seeks the destruction of him in whom the seed of the woman is raised : and here is the ground of all the saints imprisonment , now as ever was , the envie of the devil working in fallen man , against the living truth of god , where it is made manifest . e. b. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- act. . . from . isa. . , . jer. . . jon. . , . gal. . isa. . . joh. . . prov. . . isa. . . mat. . . joh. . . mat. . . . mat. . . isa. . . jer. . . jer. . . joh . . mat. . . gal. . . gal. . . mal . . mat. . 〈◊〉 . cor. . . joh. . . cor. . . eph. . . rev. . . isa. ● . . amos . . rom. . . mat. 〈◊〉 . cor. . cor. rom. . . isa. . mat. . . mat. . cor. . joh. . . mat. . jer. . mat. . luk. . joh. isa. . ● . isa. . ezek. . jer. luk. . joh. . eze. prov. . amos . mat. mat. . isa. . mal . . thess. . mal . . isa. . jer . jer. ● . rev. . h●b. . psal. . mic. . . jer. . mar. . heb. joel . . exod. . . chap. rev. pro. . ioh. . . ioh. . ioh. . . iude . tit. . . ezek. . from to micha . ● ioh. . ezek. . is . . , rev. . ezek. cor. ● rev. col. . , mat. . ● to ioel . . isa. . isa. . . ioel . joh. . iohn . . thess. . iohn . ▪ iohn mat. . isa. ier. ezek. micha . mal. rev. . , , mat. mat. . acts john . john ● , , joh. . john . . tim. , gal. . mat. . rev. . nah● . . mat. . mat. ● . to the end . psa. . john . pet. . rev. . rom . rom. . luke . mat. . , , isa. . cor. . gal . , , gen. . mat. . joh. . and . vers. a relation of the last words and departure of that antient and honourable woman loveday hambly of trigangeeues, in the parish of austell in the county of cornwal. with farther testimonies concerning her life and conversation. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a relation of the last words and departure of that antient and honourable woman loveday hambly of trigangeeues, in the parish of austell in the county of cornwal. with farther testimonies concerning her life and conversation. hambly, loveday, or - . , [ ] p. printed by john gain, living in the upper moor-fields, near the flying-horse, london : m.dc.lxxxiii. [ ] sometimes attributed to loveday hambly. in fact a series of letters written in honor of loveday hambly, who died on "the th of the th month .." [p. ] and who "hath, by reason of old age, great weekness and many infirmities kept her bed for the most part this seven weeks, being aged about seventy eight years .." [p. ]. reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hambly, loveday, or - . society of friends -- england -- early works to . quakers -- england -- cornwall -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - megan marion sampled and proofread - megan marion text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a relation of the last words and departure of that antient and honourable woman loveday hambly , of trigangeeues , in the parish of austell in the county of cornwal . with farther testimonies concerning her life and conversation . prov. . . blessings are upon the head of the just , but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked . prov. . , . a woman that feareth the lord shall be praised : give her of the fruit of her hands and let her own works praise her in the gates . acts . . and he said unto him , thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before god. london , printed by john gain , living in the upper moor-fields , near the flying-horse , m.dc.lxxxiii . the preface . dear friends unto whose hands this may come , this is to signifie of the decease of our dear friend loveday hambly , who hath finished her course in this world and is gone to her long home , where the wicked cease from troubling : and if in former time such women as feared god were esteemed honourable , and recorded to posterity for their vertue and good works , may not this friend of ours be recorded amongst the living at this day whom the living god raised up and made an instrument in his hand to be serviceable in doing much good ; who was a woman of a noble universal spirit , and descended of honourable parentage as amongst men : her fame , no doubt , is already gon far , especially amongst god's people , though many never knew her , or saw her personally , to whom the following account may be of service , as well as to such as did know her , and be a means to stir up the mind that 's pure in all to admire the goodness of the lord , & may be encouraged to serve and obey him in faithfulness in their day and time , that they may come to rest in gods heavenly kingdom for evermore , into which this faithful friend is entred . i shall not need here much to enlarge concerning this my dear , loving and well beloved friend , because the matter is so fully and truly stated in the following relation and testimonies , to which ( much of it ) i can truly subscribe : for it was my lot to be a houshold servant to her about two years , to look after her affairs , and might have been to her dying day for ought i know , if i had not been taken a prisoner for the testimony of truth , and kept about eight years in prison , at which she was troubled and disappointed also ; for she did manifest much love to me ; yea , i may say , she was more like a mother to me than a mistriss : i was an eye-witness to much of her tryals and sufferings , in which she was very valiant and chearful : she had a great family , and god gave her a great measure of wisdom to order it : her tables were largely and plentifully spread , which is well known to many , and she took great care that all might have sufficient , and likewise that none of the good creatures which god had given should be abused or wasted upon any account . and how tender was she and pitiful to the meanest servant in her family , if they were sick , or wanted her help and assistance , and the lord wonderfully blest her endeavours ; for it may be truly said , she had a true regard unto him , as i have observed upon many occasions , her heart was often tendered in a sense of the mercies and love of god , and this often was her expression , i give god the glory . or , blessed be the name of the lord. and many times in the day , as she had opportunity , she betook her self to her closet to be retired , and many times came out amongst her family as one whose strength was inwardly renewed , in a cool and tender frame of spirit . o what could i say of her sincerity and love to the lord , his truth and people ! but shall summe up all in this , that she was a good woman and very serviceable , as many in those parts do right well know . and as it was her earnest desire often in my hearing , so it is mine , that the lord who raised her up in that place and county , would be pleased to raise another in her stead and place to do as she hath done , that her intentions may be fulfilled and answered , even the propagation of the pretious and everlasting truth , in which i do dearly salute you all , and am your real friend , reading the th . of the st . month , / . benjamin coales . a coyy of a letter sent to m. d. and friends at plymouth , the th . day of th . month , . margery dyer , and the rest of friends in plymouth , knowing that you have a desire to hear how it is with our friend loveday hambly , whose fame for good works , charity and hospitality , is gone forth to the uttermost confines of the land of our nativity ; and we believe it may be affirmed with confidence , that her renown is gone forth to the isles afar off , as a person accounted famous among gods people , for sufferings , and zealous of good works , ever since the day that she was turned from darkness to light , and from the power of satan to god. now dear friend , this may certifie thee and friends there , that our dear friend above mentioned l. h. hath , by reason of old age , great weekness and many infirmities kept her bed for the most part this seven weeks , being aged about seventy eight years ; and though we are here as in a house of mourning , under the consideration of her bodily weakness , and in the sense of the departure of such a serviceable friend : yet we are comforted and refreshed in that we can give a living testimony , that she is in a good frame of spirit in relation to heavenly things : for it hath been observed of late , that if any friend or other of her relations have spoken to her about any of her outward affairs , her memory fail'd her , as to give any direct answer : but when any friend did read or pray by her , or speak to her of spiritual matters she hath been much revived and full of good expressions and praises to the lord for his manifold mercies towards her ; often saying , she desired nothing but the kingdom of god : and in the evening several friends , relations , and attendants being about her bed with a candle ; one did desire to see her tongue , she chearfully said , take away the candle , and let me have the light of the countenance of the lord jesus . and dayly and hourly she ceased not to sound forth the praises of the lord , and her desires and prayers to the lord were , to continue his mercy towards her . she saw her own weakness , and believed in the strength of the lord : and as she drew near her end , she grew into a loving child-like state and condition to all that came to see her , desiring earnestly the prosperity of gods truth ; and often declared her intent in bestowing her outward estate in the manner as she had done , was , even that the holy truth might be propagated , and those that profess it might be supported by her free gift after her decease , and that friends who did travel in the truths service and were in want , might be supplyed by those to whom she left her outward estate ; else , said she , i should never have left it to him . here follow several of her expressions taken by such as were with her the night before her departure . my heart and soul is poured forth unto thee , o thou eternal god , thou art the comfort and salvation of old age : and the desire of my heart is , that all my friends may be kept faithful to the living god : for i declare here in the presence of the lord and before you , that i do love all the children and servants of the living god with all my heart , soul and strength . — and i desire the god of abraham , isaac and jacob with all my heart and soul , that i may faithfully fight under his banner . — moreover she said , the lord knows my heart , i never loved the riches of this world , for what is it worth , it is all vanity and vexation of spirit . — at another time she said , i desire to take up the shield of faith and the helmet of salvation , and that i may dwell in the house of god. after she had layn still a pritty while , like one in a sweet , sleep , she opened her eyes , and seeing some of her friends and servants about her , she smilingly said , methinks i have been in a great warefare , and there was mighty doings , and o what a comfort it was to me ; we will not fall out about it , for their kingdom must come into my kingdom . again she said , my god , look over them , keep all thy handmaids , my god , my god. — and not long before her departure , in a good sence and deep expression of soul , she said , glory , glory , eternal glory , for thy great kindnest and love to thy handmaid . — and many times after she would begin some good words , which she was not able to utter forth , but some friends standing by her , would help her therein , and then she would rejoyce that her mind was uttered by another , and so continued quiet as a lamb for about fourteen hours before her departure : then deep groans did proceed from her un●il the eighth hour in the morning , on the th . day of the th month , , at which time she departed this life , and slept with her fathers , and as we hope and verily believe , is entred into a blessed eternity . and this is written and witnessed unto by thy loving friends , thomas salthouse . richard tregenow . anne salthouse . loveday beachamp . with several servants and other attendants . a farther testimony concerning dear loveday hambly , from t. s. should i undertake to set forth a declaration of her vertue in the last twenty years of her life , while i have had acquaintance with her , it would require the pen of a far readyer writer , and fill more paper than is intended at this time , for it is not practicable among us to garnish the sepulcres of the righteous , nor is it any way needful to write letters of recommendation for the dead , who are entred into the rest prepared for gods people and in quiet possession of an inheritance among them that are sanctifyed by faith in christ jesus , for the spirit saith expresly , blessed are the dead that dye in the lord , for they rest from their labour , and their works follow them . our dear friend l. h. is now gone to her long home , and we cease to sorrow for her that is fall'n asleep , like those that have no hope ; for if in this life only we have hope of christ , we are of all men most miserable , for many are the tryals of the righteous , &c. and truly the tribulations , tryals , and exercises of this good woman were many in the days of her pilgrimage in this present world , as may in part appear by the records of our friends sufferings in this county , some of which are in print , and some in manuscript , besides reproaches , tryals , and cruel mockings that did attend us while the way was every where spoken against , in which we walk , and worship the only true god of our fathers in spirit and in truth . this good friend and antient widdow woman was several times cast into prison at lanceston and bodmine for the possession and practice of her religion , and once constrained to ride to london , which is about miles from her house , to make appearance there for non-payment of tythes , &c. and at several times had her goods taken away in great quantities , to the value of many hundreds of pounds , sometimes fourty head of cattle at once , for her faithful testimony against the oppression of tythes , and she did always take joyfully the spoiling of her goods , with bonds and imprisonmen●s that did often attend her for matter of conscience , for no occasion could justly be taken against her , except concerning the righteous law , way , and worship of the living god ; for in other cases she was always careful to owe nothing to any man but love ; greatest policy , prudence and care was to promote the interest of the pretious truth , and not only the form , but the power of godliness , her house was made a house of prayer , her heart and hand was bountiful and open to administer to such as needed food or physick , and the lord was pleased to give a great blessing to her endeavours ; many of her neighbours are witnesses or it at this day ; her charity and hospitality was not confined to her relations and the people of her own perswasion , but was extended to rich and poor , strangers and enemies ; yea , she was truly kind and charitable in her day to the utmost of her ability , few in this generation did exceed her for love and good works ▪ she was no orator , as to express her mind by men-pleasing excellency of speech , or inticing fine words that mens wisdom teacheth , but her love was manifested to be real love , not in words only , but in deed and in truth , which gives me this confidence to say she was a disciple indeed ; and the lord blest her in her basket and store , after all her sufferings for righteousness sake , and she never wanted meat , drink nor cloathing to accomodate her persecutors and their children , if they were either in want of food or raiment ; neither did she say , be warm , and be cloathed and fed by others , but did it dayly and freely , for they were her own words often uttered in my hearing , what 's all the world ? i have enough , i will never live miserable to dye rich. and yet she hath left a competent estate to be divided amongst many of her friends and relations , and to the poor of the neighbouring parishes , as appears by her last will and testament , her command concerning her funeral was carefully observed by her relations and friends , and many hundreds of sober people did accompany her to her grave in a decent burying place , in the tenement of trigangeeves , where her dead body is at rest , and her spirit is returned to god that gave it , and to the spirits of just men made perfect , and i believe her name is written in heaven , and she is entred in the possession of that peace and joy in the holy ghost , which is the effect of everlasting righteousness , and hath a name and a place in the house of the lord , and within the walls of salvation , even an everlasting name that shall never be blotted out nor forgotten . dear friends , brethren and sisters who are asking the way to zion , with your faces thitherward , and who have desires to have intelligence of the state of affairs among friends in these parts : this gives you advice of the departure of the above mentioned mother in israel ; let it not trouble you , for it is well with her ; and this is a living testimony of never dying love , that 's given forth and sent to you from your loving friend and fellow traveller in the way of holyness , austell in cornwall , the th . of the th . month , . thomas salthouse the testimony of thomas curtis . as for loveday hambly that honourable woman in the flock of god , i have this testimony to give for her , that her nam ●●● eth , although she be gone to the place prepared for all the living , and her memorial will abide among many brethren , because of her great care of the truth amongst the heritage of the almighty . before she was convinced of the truth , she was a zealous professor , a woman seeking after the living god in the dead forms of this world , and very diligent to follow after the best men then in esteem amongst those professors , not willing to miss a lecture or sermon at that season , if sickness , or some other urgent occasion drew her not aside , marvelously beloved then by those ministers that were most eminent in that place and part of the county , willing to hear them in their exercise , and then greatly to befrind them ; and in the beginning or breaking forth of the truth , when some friends rode through the county , and sounded the trumpet of the lord ( for which they were taken and committed to the common goal in that county ) a concern c●me upon me to visit ●he prisoners of the great god , and finding them shut up in doomsdale , a dungeon in the castle in lancest●n , i was troubled in my spirit , and a farther concern came upon me to go to the sessions , and visit a commander whom formerly i was acquainted with , and then in authority , to see if possible i might do any service for the lord , and assist my then suffering brethren , which in gods strength i did perform , and in my journying , i was guided to the house of my deceased friend loveday hambly , where , after some discourse with her , she seemed to be inclinable to know the truth , and god gave me a testimony suitable to her present condition , and the lord opened her heart as he did the heart of lidia , and she was melted with the word of life , and the lord so wrought upon her , that although i parted with her in a little time , and went forward , as it was with me , to the place appointed , yet when i returned , her love was greatly inlarged , and she constrained me to stay some time , and a door of hope was op●ned to that family , and several of the neighbourhood , and many were prickt at the heart , and several good meetings i had in the family , and great tenderness was amongst them , & the fame went forth of her convincement , and the word of god had a place in their affections , and many were broken into tears , and this honourable friend did comfort them , and was a strength to them , and though many stood a loof off , and others taunted at them , yet her affections strongly increased towards them , and if any thing did befall them , she made it as her own concern , for she valued no delights of this world , but her delight was in the lord ; she valued not the glory of great men , n●●●her did she covet after great possessions , but was contented with 〈◊〉 lot in her pilgrimage , and as one that had found a spring in a dry ground , so was she in her meditations ; so that her fame went far , and many good inclinations were in peoples minds ; so that when i came again , as doves to the windows how did many flock , so that it was then very pleasant to me , & great desires after the lord appeared , & god opened a fountain in the desert ; but this made the old serpent angry , and set his ministers in a rage , and some came to the house like champions , to see if they could recover her again , many strong assaults were made in that day , but all in vain , sometimes i was met with by the ministers on the high way , sometimes challenged to come to the fair , some private , some publick discourses , but still her love was fixed to the lord , so that nothing could draw back her affections , because she had in some degree seen the kindness of the lord , the more they strove , the closer she stuck to the truth , and the more they prest on her , the more she saw their weakness , and when they perceived that there was no recovery like to be , the dragon cast a flood out of his mouth at her , and prepared a troop to come to her house to lay hold of me , which drew many tears from her eyes , but the lord was with us , and so prevailed with the then commanders , that the lieutenant and coronet were convinced , and for some time stood in their convincement , and the coronet had a meeting at his house , and great peace then was her portion , and her delight was amongst the people of the lord , and which way she might lay out her endeavours for the truth : and as friends came to visit the prisoners at lanceston they came to visit her , and her heart was open , and her house was free , and meetings began to be settled , and as a nursing mother in israel , so was she : but when faithfulness entred her heart , so that she could not put into the mouths of the priests and impropriators , they soon prepared war against her , and a deep sufferer was she both by priest and impropriator , and often her cows , horses , oxen , sheep and calves taken away , as the records of that county can make appear ; much spoil they made of her estate , so that sometimes her cattle was so clean gone and carryed away by the spoilers , as if no recovery of a stock were like to be again , but god was a portion to her , and whil'st that prophesie of the prophet isaiah was fulfilling upon her adversaries , isaiah . . wo unto thee that spoilest , and thou wast not spoiled . her cows did calve , her sheep did yean and bring forth , and the fleece did grow again ; and gods indignation did fall upon the spoylers , and the goods did not prosper in their hands , but a consumption came upon it , and it wasted and melted away , doing but little good , and in the end the lord cut them off from the earth , and gave them their portion with the spoilers : so that scripture came to be fulfilled , the righteous shall be had in everlasting remembrance , but the name of the wicked shall rot . this did not altogether quiet the adversaries , but when they had taken her goods , they sought after her body also , which they had at their pleasure ready for the prison , sometimes in one prison , sometimes in another , the goalers can give a more full account of her personal suffering , for having found the pearl of great price , she was willing to part with all for the enjoyment of h●t treasure , and believing that there was a measure of the sufferings of christ jesus behind for her to fill up , she consulted not with flesh and blood , but gave her body to the prison , and left her goods to the spoyler , as believing god was able to multiply her substance ; and truly as truth prospered in her heart , so her substance was increased , and her eye was to the lord that gave it , and gods word was her delight , and meetings still increased , and her faithfulness was found , and a nursing mother was she to the feeble and week , for she was a woman of great hospitality , and her love extended to all ; the rich knew her heart was free , the poor missed not her house , the stranger lodged not in the street , but she opened her door to the traveller , and many times relieved she her very enemies , and to say the truth of her , she was very bountiful , and an open handed woman , doing good to all , but more especially to the houshold of faith , she was no flatterer of any person , nor one that would daub with untempered mortar , but as her heart was , so was her language , dealing truly with all without respect of persons , she feared no man , neither could any mans frowns make her start aside , the plain-mans path was her delight , she feared god , and took pleasure in his people , and it was her meat and drink to do the will of her master christ jesus : she loved to hear of the prosperity of truth , and of the well-being of friends , and when she had their company , then was her heart inlarged to the lord : after this manner she passed over about twenty six years of her sojourning here in this world , and as all our fathers were , so was she seeking after that country , and to find out that city whose builder and maker is the lord. she constantly had meetings at her house once or twice a week , and took great pleasure therein , and often would have a private time to her self in her closet , to spread her condition before the god of jacob : she never turned her back upon the truth , neither for fear of loss of goods , nor did the threatnings of the prison daunt her , but according to the measure of grace that she had received , her bow did abide in its full strength , and underwent the sentence of many fines , and greatly rejoyced when any were convinced ; the truth was so pleasant to her , that she would still send to her relations to come and hear it , and when she had a friend that she was well pleased with , both rich and poor invited she unto the meeting : but now she is gone from us , and we believe she is taken away from the evil that is to come , and her good works and charity follow her : yet time will speak of the integrity of her heart , and of her great love to friends , although she is removed from us ; she hath been preserved after a wonderful manner in her latter years , and often saw it was the lord that raised her up , and would say , she believed that the prayers of friends did prevail with the lord , and that her days were lengthened out that she might be yet more serviceable . she lived to a great age , which but few do come to : david saith , the age of man is threescore years and ten . but this friend of ours lived fourscore years want but two : and if in that day it was counted a wondrous old age , what may we now esteem it ? but she hath finished her course amongst men , and departed out out of this world the th . of the th . month , . and i doubt not but is ascended up to god , out of all the troubles that overtake the sons of men. and the lord raise up many more such mothers , for the comforting of the distressed , saith my soul , who am your loving brother and companion in the truth of our lord jesus christ . thomas curtis . finis . a word of advice to all such as are going on in sin and more particularly to my neighbours and townsmen in and about colchester; to forsake their evil ways, and turn to the lord while they have time, with a word of incouragement to such as mourn for want of salvation. and a word of advice to the priests of this nation, that they choak not the tender desires that are begotten in people after holiness. hailes, john, or - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a word of advice to all such as are going on in sin and more particularly to my neighbours and townsmen in and about colchester; to forsake their evil ways, and turn to the lord while they have time, with a word of incouragement to such as mourn for want of salvation. and a word of advice to the priests of this nation, that they choak not the tender desires that are begotten in people after holiness. hailes, john, or - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by t. sowle, at the crooked billet in holy-wel-lane in shoreditch, london : . signed and dated: your friend in the truth john hailes. colchester the d. of the th. month . printed in two columns; includes postscript. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a word of advice to all such as are going on in sin , and more particularly to my neighbours and townsmen in and about colchester ; to forsake their evil ways , and turn to the lord while they have time , with a word of incouragement to such as mourn for want of salvation . and a word of advice to the priests of this nation , that they choak not the tender desires that are begotten in people after holiness . i have been concerned many a time on your behalf who still lyes in wickedness , with cryes and tears to my god , that you might be gathered into a sence of your condition , how it stands between god and your souls : for many of you seem to have a profession of godliness , and to change from one religion unto another , but i desire you in the love of god , that as you change your religion you may also change your lives and conversations , and so serve god in earnest in your day and generation . you young ones especially who were my companions in wickedness , i ha●e been concerned for you many a day , that as i have found mercy at the hand of god , you may find it also . for i know by experience that god is me●●iful , and slow to anger , as ever he was , if he had not i had surely been in a miserable state , as i fear many of you are , and yet would be called christians . but examine your selves , have you learned of christ by his spirit , who said , learn of me , i am meek and low in heart ; this is the teacher i was directed to , after i had heard many teachers who teach for money , and would say there was no living without sin in this life , which is an incouragement to youth to go on in sin ( and so it was to me ) till this teacher that cannot be removed into a corner condemn'd me for sin , and never consented to sin , neither in you nor me ) come examine a little and acquaint your selves with god and be at peace , some perhaps may be so blind ( as i was ) to say where or how can i acquaint my self with god. i will tell thee , the prophet amos said , he that shews unto man what his thoughts are , the lord the god of hosts is his name : now , thou needst not go to any man to teach thee , but try what the spirit of god can do for thee , whoever thou art when thou art tempted to do evil by the devil or his servants , then try whether he that searcheth thy heart , and shews unto thee thy evil be not able , if thou be truly willing to forsake it , to keep thee out of the evil ; none that truly trust in god dare say the contrary , but will be ready to say as joseph did when he was tempted by his mistris , how can i do this evil , and sin against god , oh that i could see you my acquaintance and others to be afraid to sin against god , and if we walk in the light , as he is in the light then have we fellowship one with another , and the blood of jesus christ cleanseth us from all sin. this is a better fellowship then you and i had in our wickedness , which as we come to know , then shall we be ready to say to one another , come hither and i will tell you what god hath done for my soul , and this little experience of the dealings of the lord in your selves is better then all hearsay of him : therefore seek the lord while he may be found and call upon him while he is near , for the lord hath said my spirit shall not always strive with man. therefore do not mock at the spirit of god , nor at them that are guided by it , for as the scripture faith , he that hath not the spirit of christ is none of his , and they are the sons of god , that are led or guided by the spirit of god. thus with examination with lowlin●ss of mind , you may know whose servants you are , surely his to whom you yield your members servants to obey , whether it be of sin unto death , or obedience unto righteousness : come you young ones serve god , and fear him , and then you will begin to be wise , for the fear of the lord is the beginning of true wisdom , and to depart from iniquity is a good understanding . therefore first seek the kingdom of god and the righteousness thereof , and all other things shall be added . for the lord knows such as truly seek him , and that goes bowed down in spirit all the day of what profession soever , through the sence of the weight of their iniquity , and that mourns for want of gods salvation , and that desires to find peace with him . if you fear god , and work righteousness you shall be accepted of him ; but if you be swearers , lyers , whoremongers , drunkards , or proud persons , then remember that no unclean thing can enter into gods kingdom . therefore you that are young and would be gods children , bend your necks to the yoak of christ in the days of your youth . for if i should ask you when you would be willing to serve god , it may be some of you would be ready to say in your old age , but how many do we see are taken away in their youth and in their sins . it would be more commendable in the fight of men , and much more acceptable in the sight of god , to see young men and women walk in the truth , and remember their creator in the days of their youth , least the evil day come upon them and overtake them a● unawares : therefore awake unto righteousness , and consider what the lord hath done for you in sparing you unto this day . do you think it was for any desert of yours , no it was his love in pr●serving us hitherto , when other nations and countries have been distressed with wars and earthquakes : and how have some of you been ready to make promise when the judgements of the lord seemed to be coming upon you as when the earthquake was here ; and also when there was a report raised of t●e irish being coming , and also since of the french being landed upon our coast ; at the hearing whereof many went crying about the streets , and wringing their hands ; and some promising to live a better life , if the lord would preserve them ; and some upon a bed of sickness have made promises to the lord , that if he would restore them again , they would serve him in newness of life . friends , as this may come to any of your hands , who in times of distress have been making such promises before the lord when your hearts have been tendered by his judgements ; see to it , thay you keep your promises and look unto him , and he will look unto you ; for he hath promised & said , that unto that man will i look that is of a broken heart , and contrite spirit and that trembles at my word : he wills not the death of a sinner , but rather that he should repent and live ; but the way to life is by taking up a daily cross , and denying thy self ; thy will to vain delights may be to gaming , sporting and pastimes , so called , and sometimes when thy old companions are at ease in these things , doing them willingly ; then the devil may be ready to tempt thee , who in some measure may be gathered out of them ; to return back to them again , and if thou do not join with them , they may laugh at thee and say , why can you not do as you used to do . now thou my fellow traveller , this is my testimony for the lord , that if thou keepest low before him , he will give thee victory over them all , and they shall be ashamed ( for righteousness exaltes a nation , but sin is a reproach and shame to any people ) and thou mayest be a preacher of righteousness in thy life and conversation , wherever thou comes , and thy yea will be thy yea , and thy nay , nay ; and if some things seem hard for thee ; then look to the lord , and he will make hard things easie , and rough things plain , and all things will work together for good , if thou truly love and fear the lord , and he will bless thee in thy goings out , and in thy coming in ; and thus if thou keep thy eye single to the lord , thy whole body will be full of light , and thou wilt see thy prosperity in thee truth , and give god the honour , unto whom it doth belong , both now , henceforth and for evermore . and all you priests of this nation , of what sort soever , where you meet with any tender hearted people , that are breathing after the sincere milk of the word of god , which gives spiritual satisfaction to the mou●ners : i warn and intreat you to have a care of stifling these desires that are begotten in them , for these are as the hindmost of the flock of god , therefore be not found seizing upon them as the amalkites did , for some of you to my knowledge have sought to hinder the light and truth from shining , and have been offended with me when i have said , that if we followed and obeyed christ , he was able to keep us out of sin in this life , for he was called jesus , because he should save his people from their sins , ( not in them ) and why should any be dissatisfied that we extol the love and strength of god , for we do not say we can save our selves from one sin , nay we cannot think a good thought , and yet in and through him there is a possibility to do all things that he requires of us , as the apostle said , through him that strengthens us we are able to do all things , and if so , then to live free from sin in this life , which is my desire for you as for my self , that so through his cleansing power you may come to know it , and so enjoy that peace that passeth all under standing . your friend in the truth john hailes . colchester the d. of the th . month . postscript . having for long time gone with a bowed down spirit before the lord , to see sin and wickedness , abound in this age and time , and to see that many both priests and people do conclude that it is impossible to live without sin on this side the grave , which is not only a great contradiction to the scrip●ures , but doth also cast contempt upon jesus christ , who was sent for that very purpose to save his people from their sins , mat. . . it reflects upon him , as if he were not able to finish the work that his father gave him to do , which was to destroy the work of the devil ( whose work is to cause people to sin ) john . . it is therefore in my heart to answer three or four objections which are commonly made against those that say that there is a possibility through the grace of our lord jesus christ to live without or be free from sin in this life . the first objection is from proverbs . . for a just man falleth seven times and riseth up again : now if people wou●d seriously weigh these words , they would find that those words m●ke nothing to their purpose , for the text doth not say , that a just man sinneth seven times , & c. ●ut that he falleth seven times and riseth up again : vnderstood of troubles and temptations . james . . rejoice when ye fall into temptations ( or trials ; ) such a fall must this be understood to be ; which is the tryi●g lot of all good men at one time or other ; and it is no sin to be tempted but to be overcome with the temptation , which the just man that feareth god is not ; for his god upholds him by his hand , psalms . . and succours him in his tempted state , heb. . . and with the temptation makes out a way for his escape , cor. . . and he riseth again , as saith the scripture or text. so though he falls , which fall is into temptation , yet he is not overcome ; but by the divine help of the divine power does stand his tryal and becomes a victor . object . . but john saith , john . . if we say we have no sin we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us , answer , so james saith chap. . v. . concerning the tongue , saying , therewith bless we god , and therewith curse we men . i hope no man will be so rash to conclude that the apostle was a curser but it was the manner of the apostles to condescend so for the sake of the weak , to rank themselves amongst them , and so put the word [ we ] instead of [ you ] so no more then the apostle james was a curser , nor john then a sinner , for he bends his whole epistle against sin . object . . but paul cryed out he was a wretched man , and askt the question who should deliver him . rom. . . answer . paul was a telling the state he was in in times past , as doth appear , for when he had asked the question , who should deliver him , he answered the question himself , saying , thanks be to god who hath given me the victory , through our lord jesus christ . so he could not be a wretched man and victor over sin , and all at the same time , cor. . . the conside●atio● of these things dear reader , i leave unto thee , and leave thee to the heart melting power of god , that is able to change and save thy soul. farewell . london , printed by t. sowle , at the crooked billet in holy-wel-lane in shoreditch , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e isaiah . ch . from . to the . ver . joel . . exod. . . . mal. . , lam. . . mat. . . john . . . chap. . . v. acts . . . isai . . . . mica . . . jer. . , , . isa . . . . job . . . amos . ps . . . pro. . . isa . . . v. ch . . v. he. . . gen. . . cor. . . . joh. . . ps . . job . . is . . gen. . . jude . gal. . . . rom. . . jude . rom. . , , v. . , , . . . . rom. . . job . luke . is . . . mat. . . acts . . cor. . . . eccl. . . lam. . . . job . ch . job . . . ec. . . joh. ver . la. . . rom. . . cor. . . eph. . . rom. . , . jer. . , . hos . . . isa . . . job . . . ps . . . cha . . . ga. . . . isa . . . mat. . . . psa . . . is . . ch . . . v. ez. ●… . mat . . mar. . . luk . . jam. . . rom. . . pet. . . luk. . pet. . . . . ro. . . . pr● . . . job . . ps . . . ch . . . mat. . . gen. . ps . . . isa . . . . . . , rom. . , deu. , , , mat. . is . . . . ch . . . ps . . . ez. . . ma. ● . joh. . . c. . . v. heb , , . mat . joh. . . phil. . . psa . . , is . . . living words through a dying man being a melodious song of the mercies and judgments of the lord, sung by a disciple of christ on his dying bed, when the pangs of death were upon his outward man. with an arrow shot against babylon, being a direct prophecy of the downfal of her merchants, the hirelings and false prophets. with sweet exhortations and prophecies also of the spreading of the glorious truth of god, until it shall have covered the face of the whole earth. by one who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus, francis patchet. patchet, francis, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) living words through a dying man being a melodious song of the mercies and judgments of the lord, sung by a disciple of christ on his dying bed, when the pangs of death were upon his outward man. with an arrow shot against babylon, being a direct prophecy of the downfal of her merchants, the hirelings and false prophets. with sweet exhortations and prophecies also of the spreading of the glorious truth of god, until it shall have covered the face of the whole earth. by one who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus, francis patchet. patchet, francis, d. . p. s.n., [s.l. : printed in the year, ] imprint from smith. copy trimmed at foot with loss of imprint. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng patchet, francis, d. -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . tithes -- great britain -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion living words through a dying man ; being a melodious song of the mercies and judgments of the lord , sung by a disciple of christ on his dying bed , when the pangs of death were upon his outward man. with an arrow shot against babylon , being a direct prophecy of the downfal of her merchants , the hirelings and false prophets . with sweet exhortations and prophecies also of the spreading of the glorious truth of god , until it shall have covered the face of the whole earth . by one who dyed a prisoner for the testimony of jesus , francis patchet . rev. . . fear none of these things that thou shalt suffer : behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison , that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten dayes ; but be thou faithful unto death , & i will give thee a crown of life . cor. . . though our outward man perish , yet the inward man is renewed day by day . cor. . . for our light affliction , which is but for a moment , worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory . several testimonies concerning the faithful servant of god francis patchet of scotforth , in the county of lancaster , who dyed a sufferer for the testimony of jesus ; which he held against the antichristian oppression of tythes inflicted upon him by one — garthwaite the priest of lancaster : and because for good conscience sake he could not satisfie the vnlawful and vnreasonable dem●nds of the said priest , in giving , or paying him tythes , he cast him into prison in lancaster ; but this not being sufficient to satisfie his envy and cruelty ( as afterwards will further appear ) would not let him be so near home , but removed him to london , about miles from his abode , where he was committed to the fleet prison until the time of sickness , which was unto death ; and dyed a prisoner the d . of the th moreth , . the testimony of christopher and elizabeth cheesman concerning him . i have a living testimony to bear concerning francis patchet that faithful sufferer in the cause of god , who held forth his testimony unto the end of his dayes against the oppression of tythes , for which he dyed a prisoner at london , about one hundred and eighty miles from his habitation , being sent thither by a persecuting hireling priest , because for good conscience sake he could not satsfie his greedy appetite , in paying or giving him tythes ; which being in direct opposition to the government of our lord iesus christ our high priest , who was sent by the father , and offered up himself once for all , to put an end to the first priesthood , with tythes and offerings appertaining to the first covenant : and therefore doth every one that believeth in christ iesus the second covenant , and in faithfulness obey him , deny to pay tythes , and to maintain such ministers , who abide not in christ's doctrine , who said , freely ye have received freely give ; which command , the apostles and ministers of christ , in dayes past , did keep , as do his ministers in this our age , glory to the lord god forever . christ and his apostles and ministers took no tythes , nor persecuted any , either for maintenance , or because they differed from them in worship or religion . and those ministers who obey christ , and abide in his doctrine , and follow his example , and the example of his holy apostles ; those are true ministers , and profit the people : but those who preach for filthy lucre ; and persecute those ( who are taught of god ) for wages , for whom they do no work ; such are they the prophet speaks of , that run and god never sent them , and therefore they profit not the people at all . and this faithful sufferer loved not his life unto death , but laid it down in testimony for the truth of god , & a witness against the persecuting hireling priest ; and is now crowned with glory immortal among the redeemed of the lord for ever and evermore . and i ( being a frequent visiter of him for divers dayes before his death , yea , many times in a day , and in that night also ; when pangs of death took hold onf his outward man , under which he lay with much patience , even as a lamb with out complaint , and as one not alrighted or disturbed at the appearance of death ) can give a further and ciearer testimony of his faithfulness to the pure truth of god , which he spake and declared of , some few hours before his departure , being very weak , insomuch that according to outward appearance his sudden departure was much expected ; and all about him did conclude , that his breath was almost gone ; but after he had lain still a little while , being a little after the . hour of the night , at which time he began to speak & continued speaking till about the . hour , in praising and magnifying the name of the lord ; but his voice at first was so weak ; that we could not clearly hear what he said , only we understood that he pray'd & said o lord god of mercy , preserve thy people , & immediately his speech was strengthned , & he spake with an audible voice ; so that he was heard over all the chamber where he lay , and he began to sing forth of the mercy & goodness of the lord , and said , o lord god everlasting praises everlasting , glory and honour for ever be given to thy name ; thou hast made way for thy redeemed as in ancient dayes , when thou madest the sea dry land for thy people israel to go through ; oh glory and honour for ever be unto thy name , who art unchangeable in all thy wayes ; thou madest man in thy own image , in thy likeness madest thou him ; but he lost it through disobedience : but o lord , in thy unexpressible love thou sent thy only son iesus christ the new man ( not old adam ) to redeem again ; oh everlasting praises to thy name for ever saith my soul ; oh the seed ; the little seed must spring and grow , till it comes to reign , whose right it is , and all that stands in opposition against it must be brought under ; all that is contrary to it , must bow to its appearance : oh our god! there is no god like to our god : he hath given his son a light into the world and his salvation to the ends of the earth , glory and honour to the lord for ever : o this blessed day ! wherein truth has appeared : oh england's glory ! truth , truth , against all untruth . oh friends , obey the truth , love the truth , buy the truth and sell it not . ah christ iesus the way , the truth and the life ! oh my dear friends , brethren and sisters , that are here with me , i know you not ( that is , after the flesh ) love the truth , obey the truth ; truth , truth , truth ; god's truth is pure , it is holy , it admits of no impurity , of no mixture ; it leads out of the fall , out of the old adam : oh the little seed that grows in god's garden ! ah dear friends , work in the garden of god , mind the little penny , work in the garden of god : oh how love springs up in my heart ! oh praises , praises , thanksgiving and halelujah's unto our god for ever , saith my soul . oh the unutterableness , the unspeakable love to my soul this night ! oh praises , pràises unto the lord , and all that is within me give thanks and magnifie his name for ever , and ever more . and speaking of the house of the lord and temple of the lord , he said , glorious is the house of god ; oh! a house of holiness , a pure house , a house of love , and her gates praise : oh our god is a consuming god ; he consumes all that is bad , all impurity , all uncleanness : our god consumeth all that is unholy , all that is wrong : and our god is light , and in him is no darkness at all . oh dear friends , brethren and sisters , dwell in the light ; he that dwelleth in the light , dwelleth in god ; but he that dwelleth not in the light dwelleth not in god , but in darkness , and so in wickedness , in sin and transgression , in the pride of life , and the vanities of the world . so my dear friends , brethren and sisters , love the truth , believe in the truth , and the truth will make you free : and so all that abide in the truth they spring forth and grow like as the willows by the water courses , and shall never be barren or unfruitful . oh friends , the day , the promised seed is come ? oh the glory of england ! a blessed day is broken forth that shall never end ; he is come to reign whose right it is . oh the lamb shall have the victory against all opposition whatsoever : christ jesus is come the promised seed , which shall grow and prosper till it hath covered the face of the whole earth . and in prayer he said , o lord preserve all friends , my dear brethren and sisters , in the truth to the end and for ever . this is part of what this faithful sufferer did declare , when pangs of death were upon his outward man , witnessed by christopher and elizabeth cheesman . and so he went forward , praising and magnifying the lord , declaring of his great and wonderous works from the creation to this day ; and of the great love of god in sending his son for the redemption of man , and bringing of man back out of the fall : and he spake much of the lord 's making way for his people in this nation of england , as in ancient dayes he made way through the red sea for his chosen israel to pass forth of egypt on dry land : and he declared very much concerning the temple of god , and house of god , and garden of god , beyond what we have retained in memory , or can commit to writing ; and that god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; and they that love god are in the light , and they that love not god , are in darkness , and they that hate the light walk in darkness , and in the vanities and delights , and the abominations of the world : and further magnifying the name of the lord said , oh the light and everlasting day that is now broken forth , it is the glory of england ; and the work of the lord shall prosper against all opposition whatsoever . and he often repeated it over , — oh the appearance of truth , the glory of england ; and concerning the house of god , the house of god ( said he ) is a house of holiness , a house of purity , a house built without hands , of living stones , precious and chosen , that need no hammer , nor fitting with tool . and further he declared concerning the word of god , and the power of god , and that his word and power is one ; and that his power is an unlimited power , and his mercies unspeakable towards man , and that man's destruction is of himself , and not of god ; not of god ( said he ) and said , that the world 's breaden christ , and water will stand them in no stead . christopher cheesman . something is in my heart to signifie to concerning the innocent , lamb-like life of our dear friend , and patient sufferer for the truth of our god , francis patchet . the lord our god hath pronounced wo against all that are covered , and not with the spirit of the lord ; but i am satisfied and well assured , that that dove-like spirit descended upon him , and was his covering , which made him to abide in the doctrine , and follow the example of his captain christ jesus , whom he followed , whose faithful souldier he was , against sin , the flesh and the devil , triumphing in the lord over them all , i am a living witness for him , being constantly with him in the time of his sickness ; i asked him if he had a wife ? he answered , yes , a very honest loving woman ; saying at another time , he came as freely from her as he was to go to her : he being so freely given up to suffer for truths sake , that he had nothing laid to his charge . after he had lain still some hours , he said , my strength faileth me ; and i said , i hope the lord doth not fail thee , to which he answered , through mercy he never did fail me : he continuing weak , and lay speechless for some time ; the spirit of the lord wherewith he was coverd , revived him ; whereby he had a new strength given to him , to magnifie the pure , powerful name of god in prayer and praises saying , the lord hath laid the foundation in zion ; the lord is building up zion with chosen stones , with precious stones that need no hammer nor tool to come upon them ; the lord is building a glorious house ; and the works of the lord are glorious ; oh praises to the powerful pure name of god! which is above every name ; his name hath done valantly ; he hath stretcht forth his shepherds crook , he hath drawna little remnant to himself , and hath led them through the red sea , he hath put a new song in their mouths , he hath caused them to sing praises upon the banks of salvation ; pure praises unto his pure , holy , powerful name . and in exhortation said , oh love the truth , buy the truth and sell it not ? oh the truth , truth , truth its more then all , truth is stronger then all ; the truth shall prosper notwithstanding all opposition that shall rise up against it ; the truth ( said he ) will make you free . and further he said , resist the devil that subtil serpent , and he willl flee from you . my soul rejoyceth ( said he ) to see this glorious day of the lord. here followeth something of the expressions of dear francis patchet given forth upon his death-bed , in testimony for god , his truth and people ; who departed this life the d day of the tenth moneth , . about the nineth hour of the day . after he had lain sometime in great weakness ; insomuch that his speech was sometime taken from him , and sometimes he could speak a few broken words , by which we could understand that he told us , that his strength failed him , and that he was almost spent ; and after this he lay about an hour silent , in great weakness , insomuch that we looked every moment when he should depart this life ; but it pleased the lord ( whose servant he was and is ) inwardly to renew his strength , and raised him up in his power , insomuch that a little after the twelfth hour of the night , he began to break forth into praying and praising the lord in a most sweet and precious manner , and declared much of the goodness of the lord ; and how bountiful he had been unto his soul ; and so he lay a pretty while admiring the precious love of god , which he said , did plentifully flow unto his soul through jesus christ : and he often said unto the lord , praised ; praised be thy pure holy name : and then he earnestly exhorted friends to be faithful in their places unto the truth , saying in an overcoming sense thereof , oh! precious , precious truth which first brake forth in this nation : it s the glory of england . and this expression he servently and frequently used , that the despised truth of god was englands glory : and he spake much of god's israel , saying , the lord who divided the red sea of old , to make way for his redeemed , would surely once more appear for zion sake . then he spake unto the lord saying , oh thy precious light ! in which i see thy glory ; lord , what will become of them that despise thy light ? and though these are but some of the many sweet and heavenly expressions , yet they are what the lord brought fresh into my remembrance , of which , i am a living witness , moses west . here are some of the words spoken by our dear feiend francis patchet a little before his death , oh the love of the lord ! how good hath the lord been unto my soul this day and this evening ? oh the unexpressible love of god! how hath it flowed forth unto my soul this day ? praises , pure holy praises , my heart and soul and all that is within me praises the lord : oh the wonderful love of the lord ! and then in exhortation he said , friends , be faithful to the lord , press forward , be faithful to the lord to the end of your dayes ; never look back , but press forward ; it matters not what trials or reproaches you meet withal here , it is nothing , be you faithful to the lord ; he will carry you through all ; he hath a little remnant which he hath regard unto . press forward friends , in the truth ; for it is the truth , the blessed truth which is declared of . the lord hath raised up many able ministers of the gospel , of the gospel here in england , the lord is come to teach his people himself in spirit and in truth ; the false prophet and the hireling priest the lord will cut down , and all that resist his blessed , powerful work , which he hath begun in this nation of england : for he hath begun a good work , and he will carry it on against all opposition of evil spirits that resist it . oh how is the spirit of the lord upon me at this time ! pure , holy praises be given unto his pure holy powerful name , which hath opened my mouth at this time to speak of his wonderful works , how the lord appeared for israel of old , by a mighty and out stretched arm of power , when their enemies were behind them , ready to overtake them , and the red sea before them ; that in appearance there was no way to escape , yet how did the lord appear wonderfully for their deliverance , and brought them through . speaking much more of what the lord would do for his faithful israel in this day , blessing and praising the lord for all his mercies and loving-kindnesses , which he was made largely a partaker of , to the praise of the great name of the lord. ann edmundson . postscript . reader , having come much short of what was spoken and declared at large by this faithful man , concerning the things of god , & his kingdom , as they were plentifully opened unto him , upon his dying bed ; and because we could not omit to mention what we certainly retained in memory , we have here collected a short account of the the heads of those things he declared of , with some words expresly , as he spoke them . as first , he spake much concerning the living bread that came down from heaven , the heavenly manna , the souls food , saying , buy it without money , and without price , eat and live for ever , drink and live for ever , exhorting to know this bread in our own houses , &c. if you know the truth ( said he ) the truth shall set you free ; truth , truth , truth , oh the precious truth , it is all , and more then all . and at another time said , oh! thy pure everlasting light , which is so much despised amongst men ; thy precious light by which i see thy glory . and at another time , two friends standing by his bed side , he turned his face to them and said , i know you both , pray for me . and some time after another friend r. t. came in , and asking him how he did ? his answer was , i have had a great skirmish , but through mercy i have overcome ; and said also , avoid satan ; i defie thee , get thee behind me satan . i have got the victory : and then in exhortation said , resist the devil and he will flee from you , that subtil serpent , that goes about like a roaring lion , seeking whom he may devour . and spake much that the devil would have christ to fall down and worship him , and how the devil carried christ up to shew him the glory of the world , saying , all this will i give thee , if thou wilt fall down and worship me . and again exhorted friends saying , press forward to the end of your dayes , my dear brethren and sisters that are here present with me , i know ye not ( that is , after the outward man ) but be ye all faithful . he also spake very much concerning david ( as well he might ) being made a large partaker of david's experiences of the goodness and mercies of the lord unto his soul , as david did . oh david , said he , a man after god's own heart ; and how david praised the lord , and to shew the goodness of god to david , he spake very much . and often times in great admiration of the truth , and its glorious appearance , he uttered these and the like words , oh the glory of england , the appearance of truth england 's glory . and that the lord hath begun a good work in england , and he will carry it on notwithstanding all opposition . he exhorted much to faithfulness , and to obey the truth , and walk in the truth , the truth of god , said he , is precious . he did often express an indignation against idolatry , false prophets , and hirelings , and said , the false prophet , and hireling priest the lord will cut down , and he will teach his people himself . and he declàred much concerning israel of old , and of their being brought into the good land ; the promised land ; and after god had delivered israel , said he , then israel sang praises unto the lord ; out of egypts bondage they were delivered , and brought into the good land , the same it is this day , where none can make afraid , which he often said ; and spake how the lord brought all his through trials , reproaches , and troubles , saying , it is no matter what trials , reproaches , troubles and afflictions we meet withal here ; the lord will bring and carry us through them all . and likewise about the new-man , not the old-man , said he , but the new-man christ jesus that is revealed , doth bring back again out of the fall. thomas farnbury ( the man of the house where he died ) who not counted one of the people called quakers , yet a friendly and honest man , gave this testimony concerning him , that it was the divine nature and power of god that spake in him , more then at other times . this is the substance of what we kept in memory , being but a small part of those sweet and living expressions given forth by this patient sufferer , and servant of the lord , who by the power of the lord ( after looked upon as a dead , or dying man ) was raised up to declare of the wonderous works of god in a most sweet and heavenly manner , who began to speak , a little after the twelfth hour of the night , & spake till about the the third hour , and afterwards continued ( making sweet melody in his heart to god ) till between the ninth and tenth hour in the morning , and then departed out of this earthly house , like a patient lamb : cor. . . for we know , that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were disolved , we have a building of god , an house not made with hands , eternal in the heavens . henry toul●son and andrew lund 〈◊〉 country-men and fellow prisoners fo● the same testimony ) thomas and marabella farnbury , christopher cheesman and elizabeth his wife , moses west , ann edmundson , rebecca veal , and marabella farnbury the younger , who were eye and ear-witnesses . the end . vvitchcraft cast out from the religious seed and israel of god. and the black art, or, nicromancery inchantments, sorcerers, wizards, lying divination, conjuration, and witchcraft, discovered, with the ground, fruits, and effects thereof: as it is proved to be acted in the mistery of iniquity, by the power of darknesse, and witnessed against by scripture, and declared against also, from, and by them that the world scornfully calleth quakers. shewing, the danger thereof, ... also, some things to clear the truth from reproaches, lies and slanders, and false accusations, occasioned by daniel bott and his slander-carriers, ... / written in warwickshire, the ninth moneth, . as a judgement upon witchcraft, and a deniall, testimony and declaration against witchcraft, from those that the world reproachfully calleth quakers. r. f. (richard farnworth), d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing f thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) vvitchcraft cast out from the religious seed and israel of god. and the black art, or, nicromancery inchantments, sorcerers, wizards, lying divination, conjuration, and witchcraft, discovered, with the ground, fruits, and effects thereof: as it is proved to be acted in the mistery of iniquity, by the power of darknesse, and witnessed against by scripture, and declared against also, from, and by them that the world scornfully calleth quakers. shewing, the danger thereof, ... also, some things to clear the truth from reproaches, lies and slanders, and false accusations, occasioned by daniel bott and his slander-carriers, ... / written in warwickshire, the ninth moneth, . as a judgement upon witchcraft, and a deniall, testimony and declaration against witchcraft, from those that the world reproachfully calleth quakers. r. f. (richard farnworth), d. . [ ], p. printed for giles. calvert at the black spread-eagle at the west end of pauls., london, : . "to the readers and hearers of this" signed: r.f., i.e. richard farnworth. annotations on thomason copy: "march. ;", " "; the final in imprint date crossed out. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng bott, daniel. society of friends -- doctrines -- early works to . witchcraft -- early works to . quakers -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no vvitchcraft cast out from the religious seed and israel of god.: and the black art, or, nicromancery inchantments, sorcerers, wizards, lyin r. f b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jason colman sampled and proofread - jason colman text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vvitchcraft cast out from the religious seed and israel of god . and the black art , or , nicromancery inchantments , sorcerers , wizards , lying divination , conjuration , and witchcraft , discovered , with the ground , fruits , and effects thereof : as it is proved to be acted in the mistery of iniquity , by the power of darknesse , and witnessed against by scripture , and declared against also , from , and by them that the world scornfully calleth quakers . shewing , the danger thereof , that it may be avoided , by all that fear god , as they will answer it in the great and terrible day of the lord , for he is utterly against those abominations and wicked practises , and those that hold them up , are upholders of the devil's kingdome , therefore a warning to you all for going to wizards for counsell , for you go from god , to the devill , that go to take counsell of a wizard . therefore thus saith the lord , see that there be no witchcrafts amongst you , there shall not he found amongst you any that useth divinations , nor any observer of times , or an inchanter , nor a witch , nor a charmer , nor a consulter with familiar spirits , nor a wizard , nor a necromancer , for all that do those things are an abomination unto me saith the lord : deut. . , , , , , . ver. regard not them that have familiar spirits , neither seek after wizards , to he defiled by them , for that which defileth or worketh abomination shall in no wise enter into the kingdome of heaven : read levit. . . rev. . . v. also , some things to clear the truth from reproaches , lies and slanders , and false accusations , occasioned by daniel bott and his slander-carriers , which daniel is a member to the water baptized people , of which accusations cast upon the truth by him and his slander-carriers , truth hath cleared it self and cast out the slanders and false accusations , amongst them from whence they came , there they do remain , one truth stands clear as by this farther do appear : read and understand . written in warwickshire , the ninth moneth , . as a judgement upon witchcraft , and a deniall , testimony and declaration against witchcraft , from those that the world reproachfully calleth quakers . london , printed for giles . calvert at the black spread-eagle at the west end of pauls . to the readers and hearers of this . all people every where , take head of going to wizards for counsell , now that you are forewarned , and the mystery of it is to you in brief laid open and discovered , as you may read in this ensuing treatise : and all you that have gone to any wizards , in your life time past , go to the market crosses , and declare there openly against them , and their craft , that you may cast off the guilt of the hainous sin , least it remain upon you for ever , and you perish and dye in that wickednesse , unrepented of , and so be cast into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , prepared for sorcerers and wicked ones , isai. . . mat. . . rev. . . rev. . , , . and all you that have been to enquire at wizards , you are gone out of the counsell of god , and the way to turn in again is to declare against that craft openly , to be of the devill , which wizards live in , and utterly to abhorre it for ever ; and if you do so : you cast off the guilt , which otherwaies you may be cast off from god , that do not repent of it , and turn from it , and declare against it , that other , may hear and fear , and take warning also , least you and they perish , and go down into the pit : to the light of god in all your consciences , i speak that which checks and reproves you in secret for the evil of your doings , that with it your memories may be quickened , and see if it did not question you secretly in your conscience , before you went to enquire at a wizard , and would not have had you to have gone , and after any of you had been , for counsell at a wizard , the light of god in your consciences would check and reprove you in your consciences afterwards for it , and tell you that you had been from god , to take counsell of the devill in a wizard , and the light in your consciences will still accuse you for it , except you go , and declare against it , and cast it off , you will be in danger to perish . and all now that you are warned , take heed of sinning willfully against light or grace received , if you do read your reward . heb. . , . r. f. the black art , or , nicromancery inchantments , sorcerers , lying divinations , wizards , and conjurations , magicians , and witchcrafts discovered , to be of the devill , and to be acted out of the power of darknesse , in the mistery of iniquity , according to the workings of the prince of darknesse , the prince of the power of the aire , the spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience , the familiar spirit , that acteth in the divels instruments according as it is written , and proved by scripture , &c. the witchcrafts is acted in that nature which is accursed from god , and in the seat of darknesse , is wickednesse and mischief invented : and the witches and sorcerers , inchanters , and devisers of lyes , and wizards were in that seed , that was cast out and accursed from god , and they were of the power of darknesse , and were acted by the spirit of the devill , according to the working of the prince of darknesse , and king of the bottomlesse pit , in the working of the mistery of iniquity , with signs and lying wonders , and all deceiveablenesse of unrighteousnesse , in the sorcery , witchcraft , and the abominations which god was and is against , and all those that act in those sorceries and abominations shall not enter into the kingdom of god , but be cast into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death : gal. . , , . rev. . . rev. . , . rev. . , . at the meeting at tamworth , upon the . day of the ninth moneth . . one nicholas greaton , which came to resist the truth , with much violence that day , and once before , who taketh upon him to be a teacher of a company of people towards lichfeild side , was proved to be one that telleth destinies , and useth lying divinations for mony , and took their mony for telling them lyes , about goods that were gone , and thy divinations were false , they came not to passe , according to the inchantments greaton , and severall witnessed against thee openly that day for it , when the power of darkness was discovered , with thy lying wonders , also , at which discovery , the devill in thee was in great rage , who set thee in wilfull opposition against the truth at two severall meetings , to oppose the truth that discovered deceits , and thy deeds of darkness , and deceiveableness of unrighteousness , with thy lying wonders , and false prophesies , that were acted and declared , and devived for mony , and were false , in that thou said , as it were proved against thee , and thy sorceries , and lying divinations , by severall that day , wherein thou wast discovered , and the power of darkness , by which thou art acted : and thou labouredst by the power of darkness , to have cast out the truth , that opposed thy deceits : but truth being raised up in the power of the holy ghost , thou couldst not , but wert further laid open , and discovered by it , that the scriptures thereby might be fulfilled , for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness , or what union hath light with darkness , . cor. . , . which darkness acted thee forth in violence against the truth to resist it , as sorcerers , diviners , magicians , astrologers , and star-gazers aforetime in all ages , because truth declares against the deeds of darkness , and lying divinations , as it did that day at tamworth , against thine greaton , who like jannes and jambres , and also the inchanters and sorcerers , and diviners , and conjurers , wizards and magicians of pharaoh withstood moses , when he went by the true power of the lord into egypt for the accomplishing the work that god was about ; then the devils instruments , sorcerers , inchanters and wizards , that were acted by the power of darkness , and used witchcraft and lying wonders , they withstood moses , and pharaohs heart was hardened against him , because he hearkened not to the messengers of god , that were in the light , and endued with the power of god , but he took counsell of the wizards , black artists , and magicians of egypt , that wrought signs and lying wonders , by the power of darkness , to deceive withall , as it is written , and when moses and aaron did as the lord commanded them by his power , the magicians and wizards by their sorceries , cast a mist to blind the eyes of people withall , that were in darkness , as they were , and by their witchcrafts wrought their lying wonders , to deceive withall , and resisted the truth of god , and the power of god acted , by his servants . exod. . , , , . and that wicked spirit in thee nicholas greaton , sought to harden the peoples heart against the truth , at tamworth , who was there discovered to be a fortune teller , or an inchanter , a wizard that tells people lyes for mony , when their goods are wanting , and other things in thy inchantments and lying divinations , which did not prove true , as severall did witness against thee , and thy lying divinations that day , after that thou stoodst up a while to have maintained thy craft , sorcery , or lying divination by scripture , till truth cut thee out of them , and thy folly was laid open , and that scripture was fulfilled by thee , that day , who came of set purpose , to resist the truth : and withstood it , as janne , and jambres withstood moses , but thy folly was made manifest to men , as theirs was , that withstood the truth that day at tamworth , till thy folly was made manifest , as theirs was made manifest , as it is written , and witnessed also . read . tim. . , . and when thy sotcery , and lying divinations , and witchcrafts were discovered that day , thou wouldst have justified it by scripture , but couldst not , for they that spake forth the scriptures , were not sorcerers nor inchanters , ( nor diuiners of lyes like thee , ) but declared and witnessed against such practises , and the plagues is due to all witches and wizards , and diviners of lyes , and those that join with them , as it was with them that joined to baal peor , to serve other gods , numb. . . to the . and the lord drave out the nations , that did use such inchantments , sorceries , and witchcrafts , and it was and is an abomination to the lord , and they that do such things , shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of god , but be cast into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , as it is written and witnessed . gal. . , . rev. . . rev. . , . rev. . , . thou broughrst in a place of scripture to have proved thy sorceries and lying divinations , which was this : and god said , let there be lights in the firmament of heaven , to divide the night from the day , and let them be for signs and for seasons , and for daies and years . gen. . . that was nothing at all to prove sorcery and inchantments ( thou beast ) god did never say that by them they should use inchantments , and lying divinations , and cast figures , and tell fortunes , as sorcerers and witches , and black artists , nicromancers , wizards , that do divine lyes , which thing god abhorres ; and all lyars and diviners for mony , like thee . read deut. . , . but god set the stars in the firmament of heaven , to praise him , and to be for lights upon the earth , and god made two great lights , the greater light to rule the day , and the lesser light to rule the night , he made the stars also , and god set them in the firmament of heaven , to give light upon the earth , and not for witches to cast figures , and iyars to divine for mony by them , but he set them to rule over the day , and over the night , and to divide the light from the darknesse , and god saw that it was good , as it is written and witnessed . gen. . , , , . secondly , the sun , moon and stars were set in the firmament of heaven , to know the regiment or government thereof , and to hold forth the wisdom of god , to praise him in the host of heaven , in his wonderous works , above the earth , and not for fortune-tellers and inchanters to divine for mony by them , as wizards , ( and thou diviner of lies , ) wouldst have them : let the scriptures be witnesse against thee , and the star-gazers , wizards , and all that divine for mony thereby : who would have the scriptures to bear thee out in that which they witnesse against thee , for acting contrary to them . thirdly , the stars were not set in the firmament for such as thou art , to tell destinies or fortunes by , nor to divine lyes for mony by , nor to cast figures by , to cast a mist before peoples eyes , to deceive them by witchcrafts as wizards do , that take peoples mony for false dreams , and lying divinations : and as thou sorcerer and perverter of the scripture wouldst have them , but the stars were set , to give light , and to know the noble works of god in them , and by them in their covenant , as they stand and keep their course , and to hold forth the wisdom of god in the firmament of heaven , and also that man might praise him for his noble acts , and as it is written in the book of psalms , oh , give thanks unto the lord of lords , for his mercy endureth forever , ( to his own host ) oh , give thanks to him that by wisdome made the heavens , for his mercy endureth for ever ; oh , give thanks to him that made the great lights , for his mercy ( to his ) endureth for ever , the sun to rule the day , and the moon and the stars to rule the night , for his mercy endureth for ever , and they were not set to divine lyes by , and cast figures , to tell fortunes , so called , and speak lying divinations by , as thou ( sorcerer and diviner of lyes ) wouldst have them ; the scriptures witnesse against thee and all wizards , and all that truly feares god will witnesse with me and the scriptures , against thee and all diviners of lyes , such as thou art , that perverts the scriptures . psal. . , , . to the . . pet. . again , the stars were not set in the firmament to inchant and divine lyes to get mony by , to make a trade of them , by using divinations as thou ( star gazer and wizard ) wouldst have them , who thy self art a perverter of scripture to thy own destruction , . pet. , . but they were set there for the praise of god , and to hold forth his wisdome in the firmament of heaven , to cause men to praise the lord , as it is written , praise the lord , praise ye the lord from the heavens , praise him in the highest , praise ye him all his angels , and praise ye him all his hosts , praise him sun and moon , praise him all ye stars of light . psal. . , , . it is not said inchant , by the stars , cast figures by the stars , nor tell destinies or fortunes by the stars , neither is it said , when goods are stolne or strayed , go to wizards , they shall tell you of them by the stars , as thou wouldst have it , that art an inchanter , that usest lying wonders , and divine lyes for mony , and tell people of those things which never come to passe , and taketh their mony for thy lying divinations , as it was proved against thee that day at tamworth , thou inchanter , star-gazer , and diviner of lyes , whose rage was great after thy deceit was discovered , and thy evill practise declared against , which the devill in thee would have alledged for by scripture , when the scriptures turn edge against thee , and cut the off thereby , as david cut off goliah's head with his own sword , that defied the armies of the living god , as thou wert in enmity against the truth , and cryed fie upon the servant of the only true god . therefore thus saith the lord my god , and the redeemer of israel his chosen , he that formed him from the womb , i , saith he , am the lord , that maketh all things , that stretcheth forth the heavens alone , that spreadeth abroad the earth by my power , that frustrateth the tokens of lyars & maketh diviners mad , ( like thee greaton ) read isai. . , . also to be witnesse against thee , and such as thou art , and see what shall come upon all inchanters and sorcerers like thee , read isai. . . for inchanters and sorcerers trust in their wickednesses as thou dost ; and saies , none seeth them , thy wisdom which is earthly , sensuall and divelish . it hath perverted thee , as it did those that turned after sorceries , that went from the lord , and turned into the power of darknesse , as thou hast done , that professest god in words , and serves the divell in thy actions , and art ready to say in thy heart , i am , and none else , besides me , as such in thy nature did : read , isai. . . stand now with thy inchantments , and with the multitude of thy sorceries , wherein thou hast laboured and all that are deceived by thee , or any such . let now the astrologers , the star-gazers , ( like thee ) stand up , and see if they can save them from those things that shall come upon them ; i lament for those that are turned to wizards , astrologers , star-gazers , and to a diviner of lyes , like thee for counsell ; thus saith the lord by isaiah the prophet , and i witnesse with him , where he saith , you shall be as stubble inchanters , sorcerers , and star-gazers , and all that trust in you , and take counsell of you ; the fire shall burn you , and you shall not deliver your selves from the power of the flame , read isai. . . , , , . pharaoh , he had his magicians ( or the divel 's wise men or wizards ) that were in familiarity with the divell , and black artists to enquire of , when he was troubled in spirit , but they could not tell him of the things that god was about to do , as it is in gen. the . and it came to passe , that in the morning after pharaoh had dreamed , that his spirit was troubled , and he sent and called for all the magicians of egypt , ( and all the divel 's wise men ) or wizards thereof , black artists or necromancers , that were in the witchcrafts , inchantments or sorceries , and pharaoh told them ▪ his dream , but there was none of the black artists , magicians , or wizards that could interprete it , because it was concerning the things of god and stood in the counsell of the only true god . take notice of this ; therefore all that are black artists , the divel 's wise men , witches or wizards , you are but in nicromancery , or the devil's counsell and familiarity only , and knoweth not the counsell of god , nor the things that stands in his counsell , no more then pharaoh's magicians , witches , nicromancers or black artists , inchanters , charmers , consulters with familiar spirits , sorcerers or wizards did , that were ( and all such are ) in the divel's familiarity and counsell only , and not in the counsell of the living god , and woe to them that ( are in the light , and ) go out to take counsell of the prince of darknesse , and woe , woe , woe to all that go to wizards , to take counsell , and woe to the rebellious children , that take counsell , but not of me saith the lord : vengence is the reward of such that do it knowingly , such are rebellious children , and in unity with the prince of darknesse , and the king of the bottomlesse pit , and guided by the divel's spirit , that go to take counsell of the black artists ▪ nicromancers , or the divel 's wise men , inchanters , wizards , sorcerers , and witches , that are in the lying divinations , and in the mistery of iniquity , and know the divel's counsell only , as pharaoh's magicians and wizards did , ( and not the counsell of god , ) and woe to all that go to wizards , or the divell for counsell , for the things of god that stands in his counsell are hid from them , and all witches and wizards as they were hid from pharaoh's magicians , who knew the divel's counsell only , and not the counsell of god . gen , . from the . to the read isai . . &c. rev. . . , to the rev. . , . rev. . , . rev. . , , . and . , , . &c. jud. , . . pet. . ● , , &c. rev. . , . and joseph's interpretations of pharaoh's dreams is no ground for sorcerers , inchanters , and black artists or nicromancers , and wizards to divine for mony by ; joseph was not in the power of darkness , but in the power of god , and he did not inchant nor cast figures as wizards do but joseph he knew the counsell of god by revelation , and nor by divination , for god is against that , and against those that divine for mony , and cause the people to erre by their lyes , and lying divinations , as thou greaton didst , and were openly witnessed against for it , wo to thee and all such , for the lord will frustrate the tokens of lyars like thee , and make diviners mad , such as thou art , read jer. . , . mic. . . mic. . , . isai. , . joseph said that it was god that should give pharaoh his answer , and he did not cast a figure , nor enter into the inchantments as ( star-gazers , and ) wizards , that divine lyes for mony , but joseph he spake by revelation of god in him , to him , and by him , and not by lying divination or witchcraft , god doth utterly abhorre that , and he is against it , and against all diviners or conjurers , and will make them mad , as he hath said . therefore joseph's interpretation of pharaoh's dream by revelation without inchantment , or casting figures , is no ground for star-gazers to cast figures , nor for nicromancers to conjure and use witchcraft , and raise up the forms of living things by witchcraft , as pharaoh's magicians , sorcerers , wizards did , to deceive by their lying wonders , as the divel's instruments do , neither was joseph's interpretation of pharaoh's dreams any ground for the divel 's wise men or wizards , to tell destinies or fortunes by , as they call it in darkness : for the magicians , sorcerers and wizards could not tell pharaoh what god was about to do by all their inchantments which was revealed by the lord to joseph , without casting figures , and without inchantments that are acted by the power of darkness , in the mistery of iniquity . therefore silent wizards , consulters with familiar spirits , charmers , black artists or nicromancers , that are in the divel's counsell , and all diviners of lyes , silent witchcraft , the lord is against it , and you that act in the mistery of iniquity , ( by the power of darkness ) god will be avenged of you ; take not the scriptures for your cloak or cover , that acteth in such wickedness , you wizards and diviner of lyes , god is against you , and all that take counsell of you : wo , wo , wo to you all , and your partakers : gen. . exod. . , . rev. . isai. . , . isai. . deut. . , , . &c. rev. . , . samuel's telling of saul of the asses that were gone astray , for which thing god caused saul to come to samuel , for the fulfilling of his word that he had spoken to samuel , concerning the kingdom which was true , and fulfilled according to the word of the lord , is no ground for that wicked spirit in thee nich. greaton , to use inchantment and sorcery , to divine lyes , and tell people of goods that are stolne by the divel's servants , for theft is of the divell and witchcraft , and sorcery , and whoredom and lying divinations , and they that do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god ▪ gal. . , , . rev. . and thou ( sorcerer ) tookst peoples mony for thy lying divinations , and thy sayings proved false , as it was witnessed against thee at that meeting at tamworth that day , and thou wouldst have made this of saul's coming to samuel thy cloak or cover for thy sorcery and lying divinations , which will be witnesse against thee ( and all wizards , inchanters , ) and diviners of lyes , as thou art , wo , plagues and vengence from the lord is your reward . thus saith the lord , ah , i will ease me of mine enemies , and avenge me of mine adversaries . isai. . . the lord had told samuel all the things concerning saul , and it came to passe , and was fulfilled according to the word of the lord . ( but samuel did not cast figures , and inchant , and divine lyes for mony as wizards do ) but it was revealed to samuel by the word of the lord , that which he told saul , and was fulfilled according to the word of the lord : and no ground ( for you wizards ) to divine lyes by for mony , as thou greaton wouldst have it , but thou art discovered , and found to be out of the counsell of god , and in the counsell of the devill , and the mistery of iniquity ( as all wizards ) and diviners of lyes and lyars are . joh. . . . thes. . , , , . and art for the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , and all sorcerers . rev. . . that divine lyes for mony , and are in their inchantments , and lying divinations , and wouldst have had that of samuel for thy cloak , which doth uncover thee , and leaves the bare , and witnesseth against thee , and such as thou art , and against all wizards , and diviners of lyes for mony . now the lord had told samuel a day before saul came , saying , to morrow i will send thee a man , and thou shalt anoint him to be captain over my people : and the lord told samuel those thing that he told saul , and he did not cast figures , nor inchant to know them , as wizards do cast figures , and inchant to divine lyes for mony ( and all things came to passe ) as samuel told saul , according to the word of the lord . . sam. . . to the end . sam. chap. therefore silence witches , sorcerers , inchanters , black artists or nicromancers , charmers , and consulters with familiar spirits , and wizards that are acted and guided by the spirit of the divell , and are in the power of darknesse , mistery of iniquity , and witchcrafts . let the scriptures alone , and pervert them not with your mucky , dirty , fil thy minds : plagues upon you all that are in witchcrafts , the burning lake is prepared for you , who are under the king of the bottomlesse pit , vengence upon you all ; you shall curse your king and your god , and look upward and be driven to darkness , and be fewell for the fire , rev. . rev. . mal. . . isa. . , , . rev. . you shall gnaw your tongues for pain , as the vialls of wrath are poured forth , vengence is your reward , read rev. . , , , , . rev. . . and thou greaton that art in the sorceries and lying divinations , as it was proved against thee at tamworth , who art also a teacher to a company of seduced people about liechfield , or in those parts ; let the scriptures alone , i warn thee and charge thee in the presence of the lord , and make not them thy cloak for thy inchantments , sorceries , and lying divinations , plagues upon the wicked in flames of fire , that trust in lying vanities also , as well as thee : ( silence all wizards , let the scriptures alone , and make not them your covers for sorcery ) you have no part in any thing spoken of in them , but the plagues and the burning lake . reu. . . let the scriptures alone , wizards and inchanters , i warn you and charge you in the presence of the lord , vengence is your reward in flames of fire , and wo to all that are seduced ( by you ) and that go to take counsell of a wizard , and an inchanter , or a witch , or a charmer , or a consulter with familiar spirits , or a black artist , or nicromancer : the living , dreadfull , powerfull , mighty god of heaven and earth , he is utterly against that nicromancy , or black art , plagues upon it all , wo and vengence upon all that hold it up , and that go to take counsell of it , and wizards , the law of the dreadfull god forbids it , and the almighty god doth utterly abhor it , and it is commanded to be avoided by the israel of god , for such witchcrafts were practised amongst those nations that knew not god , and it was and is an abomination unto the lord : therefore the lord spake to moses to speak to the children of israel , to command them to avoid it ; and saith he , when thou art come into the land which the lord thy god giveth thee , thou shalt not learn to do after those abominations of those nations : there shall not be found amongst you any that useth divinations , which thou greaton dost , that divinest lyes for mony ( as wizards do ) plagues upon thee , thou art to be holden accursed , that art in the abominations , and out of the doctrine of god and of christ . gal. . , . . cor. . . and again saith the lord by moses to israel , in the command to avoid nicromancy , or black art , or witchcraft , saith he there shall not be found amongst you an inchanter nor witch , plagues in flames of fire upon such . . thes. . . rev. . , , &c. neither shall there be amongst you saith the lord a charmer , nor a consulter with familiar spirits , nor a wizard , nor a nicromancer , for all that do these things are an abomination unto me saith the lord , and because of those abominations the lord drove out the nations that used those things : for saith the lord unto israel , those nations which thou shalt possesse , hearkened unto observers of times , and unto diviners , and wizards , and such like , but as for thee , the lord thy god hath not suffered thee so to do , and thou shalt not suffer a witch to live , but thou shalt walk before me , and be perfect ( speaking to his own people , that were in covenant with him ) for saith he i am the lord thy god , as may be read . deut. . , , , , , . also read , exod. . mic. . . &c. nebuchadnezzar , pharaoh , and the heathen , that knew not the only true god , had their magicians , sorceries , inchanters , or wizards , to enquire at , and plagues was the portion of such : wo unto all you that go to wizards or charmers , or consulters with familiar spirits , or diviners , and inchanters , or sorcerers , or conjurers , or witches , or ( the divels wise men ) wizards to take counsell , you are one with them , in the upholding of them , you ought to have no fellowship with unfruitfull works of darknesse , but rather to reprove them , and declare against them : for it is light that discovers darknesse : and the children of light are commanded to declare against the works of darknesse : read ephes. . , , . you that go to wizards , you hold them up , and so are upholders of the divels kingdom ( and except you come out from them , and declare against them , you shall partake of the plagues with them ) you that go to take counsell of wizards , you go from god to the divell , and the light of god in your consciences will tell you the same , and reprove you for it in secret , and wo to all that do so , read , isa. . &c. pharaoh he had his magicians , sorcerers , inchanters , or wizards , to take counsell of and by their black art , or the power of darknesse , and nicromancy , or witchcraft , they could by their inchantments or conjurations raise up the formes of living things , and they were in the inchantments and in the witchcrafts , of whom pharaoh took counsell , and so of the divell , and plagues was his portion , and vengence from god and utter destruction . exod ▪ . , . exod. , , , , and chap. and nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams wherewith his spirit was troubled , and his sleep brake from him , and he commanded to call the magicians , and the astrologers , and the sorcerers ( and wizards ) which he had to take counsell of , dan. . , . but because the thing stood in the counsell of god , they could not tell him of it , that were but in the divels counsell only , as sorcerers ( and wizards ) are , for which he was wrath with them . dan. . , , , , . and daniels interpretations of the dreams , and reading and interpreting the writing by the spirit of the lord . dan. . , . to the . dan. . which was hid from the black artists and astrologers , star-gazers , and wizards , sorcerers , and inchanters , and diviners of lyes ( like thee ) that tels people of things which are wanting , and destinies , and such like , and take their mony for it , and were lying divinations , wo to such ( wizards and diviners of lyes as thou art ) that would have the scriptures for thy cloak , silent deceit , daniels interpretations by revelation is no ground for nicromancy , plagues upon all nicromancers , black artists , witches , sorcerers , inchanters and wizards , and diviners of lyes ; the devill and his angells are for the lake ; go ye cursed into hell , and all that forget god , to take counsell of you , psal. . . isai. , . math. . . rev. . . then thou greaton and diviner of lyes , thou seemedst to have had that prophecy of christ for thy cover , and to prove thy art , till i cut thee out of that , where he prophesied and said , imediately after those dayes , the sun shall be darkened , and the moon shall not give her light , and the stars of heaven shall fall , and the powers of heaven shall be shaken , which is as i said , a prophecy of the coming of christ to gather his elect from the four windes , mat. . , , . which thou knowest nothing of , by thy sorceries and lying divinations , that art in the reprobation , professing , god in words , but to every good work abominable and reprobate , who art an inventour of evil things , and filled with wickednesse in the reprobation . tit. . . rom. . . to the end , and that of joel , the . , , . is also no cover for thee , but a witnesse against thee , which is a prophecy of the great day of the lord , wherein thou and all such shall cry bitterly . zeph. . . &c. and shalt be rewarded with flames of fire . . thes. . , . thou sorcerer and perverter of scripture , and as elimas the sorcerer was , thou full of all subtilty , and child of the divell , and enemy of all righteousnesse , that perverts the right waies of the lord , as he did . act . . , , , . . thes. . . wo to thee thou sorcerer and perverter of the right waies of the lord , thou false prophet , that divines ( or conjures ) for mony , and art found amongst the inchanters ( or wizards and star-gazers ) that tels destinies and fortunes , ( and casts figures , ) and thou tellest of things that are gone , and such like practises , by a spirit of divination , that brings thee in gain , and thou wast witnessed against for it , at thee meeting at tamworth , and proved to be a diviner of lyes for mony , and those things came not to passe according to thy inchantments neither , but proved lying divinations , and when thou couldst not maintain by scripture , which thou labouredst to have done , thou saidst thou wouldst give him his mony , again ( thou beast and wizard ) thou art naked and bare , thy covers will not hide thee , wo to thee , and wo to all wizards , and ( such as thou art ) plagues is your portion , truth clears it self of you ) and of thee , who saidst thou wouldst follow the servants of the lord , and weary them out , &c. but thy lying divinations fails thee , who art of thy father the divell , as those were , spoken of in john , . . and the lake is prepared for such . read , rev. . . and all lyars and sorcerers are for the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death : with the light which changeth not art thou seen and discovered , and comprehended , and from god and from christ condemned , and all witches , sorcerers , inchanters , charmers , black artists , or nicromancers , evil inventours , conjurers , and wizards , that are in the power of witchcrafts , and in the mistery of iniquity , the beast and the false prophet also , and the divell that deceived them are all for the lake ; howle , howle witches , wizards , that peep and mutter plagues upon all such in flames of fire for ever and ever , and the divell that deceived them , where the beast and the false prophet are , thither must they go , into the lake of fire and brimstone , and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever : wo , wo , wo to all such , read rev. . , . all people every where , that desires to fear the living god , and serve him , take heed of that wicked spirit in nicholas greaton , ( and all wizards ) i warn you and charge you in the presence of the lord , as you will answer it before the judgement seat of christ , in the terrible day of the lord , read joel , . , , , , , . and zeph. . , . read also levit. , . and take heed of going to those that have familiar spirits , or to those that are wizards , as you will answer it before the lord : now you are warned also , read . , , . thus saith the lord , regard not them that have familiar spirit , neither seek after wizards , to be defiled by them , i am the lord , read levit. . . you that seek after wizards disobey the lord , and turn from him , to enter into fellowship with the divell , and take counsell of him in a wizard , and are defiled thereby , and the wo is to such that regard not the counsell of god , where he forbids going to wizards . therefore a warning to you all from the lord , for hearkening to wizards , least you be slain , and dye not the common death of men , and least the plagues come upon you , for joining with them , as they came upon those that joined to baal peor , ( and the wizards were amongst those curst people , whom thy lord drove out ) deut. . , . and those that went out of the counsell of god , joined to baal peor , and the anger of the lord was kindled against them for it , and the lord said unto moses , take all the heads of the people that joined to baal peor , that serve other gods , and hang them up before the lord against the sun , that the fie●ce anger of the lord may be turned away from israel , then moses gave a command to the judges of israel to slay the men that joined to baal peor , and they that went out of the counsell of god , that joined to baal peor , were cut off from amongst the israel of god , and those that dyed in the plague before it was staied , for joining unto baal peor , were twenty and four thousand , as may be read in numb. the . from the . to the . and those that rebelled , and took not counsell of the lord , the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up quick , and their houses , and all their goods , they and all that appertained unto them went down alive into the pit , and the earth closed upon them , and they perished from amongst the congregation , and their cry was great when they went down quick into the pit , for their rebellion against the lord , and there came a fire from the lord , and consumed . and . men , for offering incense , that were disobedient to the word of the lord , and there was . thousand and dyed of the plague for their rebellion , numb. . which were sinners against the lord , and also against their own souls . now that you are warned , if you go to wizards , take what followeth , for you sin wilfully against the lord , and also against your own souls , and the light of god in all your consciences will witnesse with me , and the scriptures , if you go any more to witches or wizards you are in danger of loosing soul and body goods , and all , by the righteous judgements and plagues that may follow you for your rebellion , as those examples that are instanced before you ; read also jude . , , . . pet. . , , . and when any shall counsell you contrary to the counsell of god that saith regard not them that have familiar spirits , neither seek after wizards , least ye be defiled by them . levit. . . if any say unto you , seek unto them that have familiar spirits , and unto wizads that peep and mutter , take not their counsell that would have you to do so , as you will answer it , for should not a people seek unto their god ; and wo to them that take counsell , but not of me saith the lord , therefore a warning to all that go from god to the divell , by seeking after wizards for counsell , also read , isa. . . isa. . . when god was departed from saul , he went to the divell ( in the witch of endor ) for counsell , and then was conjuration used to raise the dead , sam. . and saul died not the common death of men , for he slew himself upon his own sword . . sam. . wo , wo , wo to the wizards , and all that go to take counsell at them , for they go from god to take counsell of the divell , and of sorcerers , witches , that are in the power of darknesse and witchcraft , and in the mistery of iniquity , and those who are under the command of the prince of the power of the air , and the king of the bottomlesse pit , read rev. . even of him whose coming is after the workings of satan , ( with all the power of darknesse ) and with signs and lying wonders , and with all deceiveablenesse of unrighteousnesse in them that perish , that they all might be damned , who believed not the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousnesse . . thes. . , , . all you that turn from the light of christ jesus in your consciences , which sheweth you sin and evill , you turn from the counsell of god , and from the holy command , as cain did , and err'd from the spirit of truth , and turned into the seat of darknesse , where witchcraft is hatched , and all evil is invented , and so you entering into union with the prince of darknesse , the spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience , that turn from the light , into the fear of darknesse , you become inventours of evil things , and follow that which is evil , and are filled with wickednesse , some with inchantments and sorceries and theft , and some with whoredome and drunkenesse , and some with witchcraft and lying divinations ( and lies and sorceries arise ) and witchcraft is of the divell , acted by the seed of the serpent that is in union with the divell , and is given over to work wickednesses , and those creatures also , that are in familiarity with the seed of the serpent , and so captivated by the divell , ( that old sorcerer and witch ) at his will , and see the cause how it enters , and you into the mistery of iniquity , whereby you become inventours of evill things , by disobeying the light of god in your consciences , is the cause of entering into wickednesse and witchcraft , and because they did not like to retain god in their knowledge , therefore he gave them over to a reprobate mind , whereby they become evil inventours , and are filled with deceiveablenesse of unrighteousnesse and wickednesse , working uncleanesse with greadinesse . romans , . , , . &c. for this cause the wrath of god is revealed from heaven , for disobedience , and against all unrighteousnesse , and the unrighteous ones , who hold the truth in unrighteousnesse , and against all ungodlinesse of men , because that which may be known of god is manifest in them ; for god hath shewed it unto them . rom. . , . and they received not the counsell of it , after manifestation therefore followeth their condemnation , & the condemnation of the world , joh. . , , . and the condemnation of all that love the deeds of darknesse , rather then the light , which light is the condemnation of all that hate it , and act contrary to it , and the condemnation of all the wicked , and all that are seated in the power of darknesse , and in the mistery of iniquity , and it is also the condemnation of all sorcerers , and inchanters , and conjurers , witches , wizards , black artists , and nicromancers , false prophets , seducers , and antechrists , that are in the witchcrafts , and in the abominations , howl all witches , the fire and the lake is prepared for you , and all in your craft , howl , vengence upon you all that are wizards , the fire and the lake is for you all , and wo to all that take counsell at you , and at wizards , with the light that changeth not are you all seen , to be in the power of darknesse , witchcrafts , mistery of iniquity , with the light that comprehends all the world are you comprehended , and from god , and from christ are you condemned , the sword is drawn , the fire burns , you are all compassed , and the chain is upon your necks , reserved for the judgement of the great day : and for the burning fire , that burneth for ever and ever , rev. . , . to the . rev , . . rev. . . gal. . , , . rev. . , . some of thy lying divinations that proved false , which thou tookst mony for , thou diviner of lyes . and perverter of the right waies of the lord , as is proved by scripture , and now followes more proofe against thee by witnesse , against thy wicked practise . first , that william newway of tamworth went to nicholas greaton , to know where he might buy some wood for his trade , and he told him he might have some southward , in warwickshire , about hounby , and the said william newway sent john greenwood to the place where greaton told newway he might have some , but when greenwood came at the place he was sent to for that purpose , there was none to be had , and this proved a lying divination , for which the said greaton took newways mony : this john greenwood of tamworth witnesse against thee , thou inchanter and diviner of lyes ; john greenwood the second lying divination witnessed against is this : thomas taylor of austrey went to the said nicholas greaton , abont a mare that was stoln from his father , and greaton said it was impossible for him to have her again , and one of tho. taylors of austrey neighbours had a mare stoln the same night , and greaton said , it was impossible for them to have them again , for he said they were gone notthward , but that proved false , for they were gone westward , and they had them both again , and when taylor went to greaton about them , he demanded a piece , because they were severall things : but afterwards he would have taken but he would not given him so much , therefore greaton was very angry with him , because the said tho-taylor that went to him to enquire about the mares that were stolne , would give him no more , and greaton flung it away , and the man took it up , and ( the man , ) told him he should get it before he had it , and this john greenwood can witness from thomas taylors mouth : and also rice healey of tamworth , he can witness this business of thomas taylors , for he was by at that time : john greenwood rice healey witnesses . the third lying divination is this ; robert healey of grindon , did send rice healey to the said greaton , to know whether he should have some goods again that were stolne , or no ; and he said he should and withall , greaton told him that the theeves house stood southward from the mans house that did send to enquire , and the doores opened not into a lane , but into a backside , northward : and he took money for that , and 〈◊〉 he should have his goods again ; but he had not , and that proved a lying divination also . this is witnessed against by rice healey and robert healey . more lying divinations witnessed against , for which the said nicholas greaton tooke money for his deceiveableness of unrighteousness ; john farmer having great use for money , and having kindred in the north-wales , that had much spare money ; he went to nicholas greaton , to know whether he should borrow any of them , and he told him that he might , upon which account he went : it was above one hundred miles and he spent above twenty shillings , and could borrow none . also two maids , sisters to the said john farmer declared , that nicholas greaton had told them severall things , for which he took money of them , and they complained of him to iohn farmer , that they were all lies : and the said iohn farmer asked him severall other questions , for which he demanded four shillings , and railed against him because he had not so much to give him ; saying , that he was so badly payed by those that professed themselves friends , that he thought he should be undone , unless that he left that art : but iohn farmer gave him two shillings . these lying wonders , and false practices , and lying divinations , are witnessed against , by iohn farmer . written from the spirit of the lord , by a servant of the lord ; known and beloved of the lord , yet hated of the world as unknown , yet well known ; as dying , and yet behold i live ; as chastened , and not killed ; as sorrowfull , yet alwaies rejoycing ; as poot , yet making many rich ; 〈◊〉 as having nothing , and yet possessing all things , cor. ● chap. the new man , the new name ; yet known to the world by one , whom they in scorn call quaker , but of the divine nature made partaker . behold , what manner of love is this , that the father hath bestowed on us , that we should be called the sonnes of god , and now we are the sonnes of god , therefore the world knoweth us not , because it knew him not : as it is written , iohn . . [ according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godlyness , through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and vertue , whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises . ] therefore can we have no fellowship with the unfruitfull workes of darkness , but openly declare against them , as it is required and done in obedience to the command of the spirit of truth , pet. . , . ephes. . , , . verses . witchcraft , declared , against ( jndged ) and utterly denyed , by those whom the world scornfnlly calleth quakers , and by this let all that accuse ( any of ) them of the same , stop their mouth , and be ashamed , for that thing is utterly abhorred ( by the lord ) and by us who are the lords , whom the world scornfnlly and reproachfully calleth quakers , truth clearing it self of reproaches , lies and slanders , and casteth out some false accusations , turning them both from whence they came , into the reproachfull and lying generation again , that ( in it , and ) amougst them , the reproachers , liers , slanderers , truce-breakers , slander-carriers , ( and upon the heads of false accusers ) they may remain , which were occasioned by daniel bott of armitadge near polsworth in warwickshire , one of the water baptized members , that belonged to that company which used to meet at shittington , in the said warwickshire . &c. vvhereas that daniel bot as abovesaid , came to a meeting ( of the lords people ) at troycrosse in licestershire , and other of the water baptized people with him to the said meeting as aforesaid ( some of them received the truth in much love ) and at that time the said daniel was much tendred ( and severall of the baptized people ) who desired and with his consent also : intreated and earnestly desired those men that the world reproachfully calleth quakers , whom the lord sent into these parts , that they would on the first day of the week , next after that : meet with them ( the water baptized people ) at shittington , which was then agreed and concluded of , provided that the meeting ( for the men called quakers as abovesaid ) might be appointed at another house in shittington ( and not where it used to be ) that those of that meeting of the water baptized people that ( met there as many of them as ) would come to hear them might , and those that were not free to hear them , might keep their own meeting , because they were tender of them . &c. it was so concluded of at troycrosse that time , and after that , notice being given of it , there was a pretty company came together , and all met together at that house where the meeting was appointed for the men by the world called quakers to be at , which were at the meeting that first day at shittington according to promise , and appointment according to the ordering and disposing of by the spirit and wisdom of the lord , who stood in his counsell , and to be acted forth and ordered according to his divine power , and the good pleasure of his will , and at the said meeting at shittington the truth was declared that day ( in much power , to the praise of the lord , and to the glory of his grace ) and it wrought upon the spirits of many as they then witnessed , and one came from burton upon treat as it was said , an elder also of the baptized people ( of purpose ) to oppose the truth that day , whose folly was made manifest according to that saying in scripture . . tim. . , . but the people received the truth in so much love ( some of them , that they and the man of the house spoke unto him , and withall to depart out of the house , which he did ( though he was an elder of the baptized people ) and at that time the said daniel bott , stood up for to plead for the truth , and against the opposer , to wit the elder of the water baptized people that came from burton as aforesaid , and daniel confessed that day , that he never saw so much into himself ( and his own heart ) as he had and then did since he met with those men ( whom the world calleth quakers ) & there was another meeting the next day at troycrosse again , at which meeting daniel bott was much broken into tendernesse and wept that tears ran down his cheeks , as severall can witnesse , therefore daniel , that which gave thee a sight of thy sins , and convinced thee of thy evil deeds , and caused thee to confesse with tendernesse that thou never sawest so much into thy self , as thou didst since thou sawest us , and heardst the truth declared by us , ( whom the world calls quakers ) and that which at that present let thee see thy stubborn will , and bridled that rash wilde heady nature in thee , and did eternally convince thee , that i own and it shall against thee answer for me and the truth ) which is thy condemnation , the light which thou hast erred from , and an enemy unto the light in thy conscience is my answer , and a witnesse still against thee and thy deceit , go where thou wilt , and god almighty is judge , to which that in thy conscience shall witnesse , and in thy condemnation , answer ( upon thee ) his judgements to be just . also read mal. . . mal. . . the same week that the meeting was at troycrosse as aforesaid , there was a meeting ( of the lords people ) at harliston in ( the county ) staffordshire , and daniel bott came thither also , and said to one of the men ( called quakers ) that he was his spirituall father in christ ( and had begotten him again in the gospel ) and said there was many instructors , but there was but few fathers , and said the spirits of the prophets were subject to the prophets , and after the friend by the spirit of the lord had spoken something to him in exhostation , and his spirit was much subjected , and tender he was then also , as many can witnesse , and the servant of the lord ing the danger that daniel might fall into if he gave way to the tempter , being convinced and having some opening in his mind , therefore the servant of the lord did exhort daniel to watchfulness , ( as ch●ist jesus exhorted to watch and pray , least there should be an entering into temptation . math. , . but afterwards daniel not abiding in that which did convince him of the evil of his heart he gave way to his will and the deceit , and so ran out into extremes rashly and unadvisedly ( without the true wisdom ) and entring into the temptation , did evil , and also opened the mouthes of evil doers , to speak evil of the truth , and though he did so , and fell of into delusions , errour , treachery and deceit , so did judas when he turned from the light , but destruction was his end , and all who turn from the light which comes from the lord jesus , judas is the way to perdition and destruction , daniel bott , the light of christ in thy conscience , which did convince thee of the evil of thy heart , and did cause thee to confesse the same , that light is my witnesse for the truth against thy deceit , and in thy condemnation remember that in thy life time thou wast warned , who received not the truth with the love of it , as to continue therein , but taketh plagues in thy unrighteousnesse , as such did which were enemies to the truth as thou art , therefore great is thy condemnation as theirs was ▪ . thes. . . offences must come as it is written in scripture , but wo to thee and them , by whom ye do come , it were better that a milstone were hanged about the necks and be cast into the sea , then to offend one that believes in the lord jesus , as thou and such may read . math. . , . to the truth of this against the deceit that in the conscience shall witnesse , in the terrible day of the lords fierce wrath , revealed from heaven in flames of fire , upon the children of disobedience , who are enemies to the truth of the lord jesus , as thou hast read thy condition , . thes. . , , , . answered with that in thy conscience which thou hast back-slided from , and disobedient to , but the light is the same that it was , and though thou beest backslided from it , yet it stands a witness against thee , who hast erred from the truth , and wouldst have overthrown the faith of some , as hymeneus and philetus did , but the spirit of truth witnesseth against thee , as it did against them by such as live in the faith of the son of god , as he did which said , none the least he foreknoweth them that are his , and let every one that nameth the name of christ depart from iniquity . gal. . . . tim. . , , . but thou and all such as depart from the light , turns into the iniquity , who art found in that mistery the workers of iniquity , and saith christ , though ye have prophesied in my name , and be found in the work of iniquity , i will say , i know you not , depart from me you that be workers of iniquitie , thess. . , . to the . verse . matth. . . . therefore , go ye cursed into hell , prepared for the devil and his angels : for the wicked and ye that forget god , shall be turned into hell : therefore woe to thee , and all such , esa. . . psalm . . matthew . . to the end . therefore , all whose minds are turned with the light towards the lord jesus , from whence the light comes ; upon it wait , and in it abide , that ye may be preserved in the grace , and be kept for turning into errour and deceit : and as daniel hath done , who hath turned from the light as judas did , and so is an enemy to the truth as he was : but though he have so done , who now turns the grace of god into wantonness and lasciviousness : wo from god is his reward and the reward of all such : and though truth have many enemies now , as it ever had , yet truth is the same that it ever was . and though the said daniel , by turning from the light , maketh ship-wrack of faith and a good conscience , as himeneus and alexander did that were given over to satan , ( as he is ) yet some held fast , and doth hold fast faith and a good conscience , in which the mystery of faith is held , praysed be the lord , and truth is the same still , tim. . . . colos. . . & tim. . . and though many that had for a time walked with christ , and because yee though it hard to eat his flesh and drink his blood : and ( whereupon ) ye forsook him , ( to wit christ ) and walked no more with him , john . to the - . yet the truth was the same , though ye did back-slide , and ye that knew the word of eternall life , abode then , and so do ye now , john . . . to the end . and whereas many slanders hath been cast upon the truth occasioned by daniel bott , upon him and his slander-cariers , they are cast , and with them doth remains ( truth is cleared , and hath cleared it self of them all ) and daniel the light in thy conscience , which did convince thee , and tend thee for a time , and let thee see the evill that thou hadst done thee ; i desire but the light i own , which thou art back-slided from , and an enemy unto ; yet the light changeth not , but is the same ; ( and in thy condemnation , remember thee it will of what against the truth thou hast done , and as was said in that epistle which after was red at thy house amongst them then met , appeareth upon record to witness further for the truth , and against thee and thy deceit . written from and witnessed by and with the spirit of the lord in his children and servants that are guided thereby ; though unknown , yet well known , and as it was , it is , in the life which the scripture witnesseth to ; and against all ungodlyness , and unrighteousness of men , which hold the truth in unrighteousness as thou dost , who by us art witnessed against , romans . . . . . romans . . , . gal. . . . john . . cor. . . . to the . iohn . . . pet. . . . ephes. . . romans . . and . and the severall passages and particulars by severall witnesses , some in one particular and some in another , for the truth , and against the deceit of daniel bott , and also here witnessed by severall friends and known neighbours near about where he livethin the outward . i john farmer , and anthony bickley , and william stowrey , and thomas teler , and john smith , and hugh read , thomas doe , and thomas orton , and others , can witness to ( the truth ) and against the deceit as aforesaid , concerning daniel bott . finis . the wounds of an enemie in the house of a friend. being a relation of the hard measure sustained by miles halhead, and thomas salthouse, for the testimony of jesus: particularly in a long, and sore, and close imprisonment, first at plymouth, and then at exeter in the county of devon, though they have neither offended the law of god, or of the nation. published for the clearing of their innocency from the cloud of transgression, of which they are supposed highly guilty, and by reason of their silent abiding such sharp, and long, and cruell sufferings. halhead, miles, or - or . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing w thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the wounds of an enemie in the house of a friend. being a relation of the hard measure sustained by miles halhead, and thomas salthouse, for the testimony of jesus: particularly in a long, and sore, and close imprisonment, first at plymouth, and then at exeter in the county of devon, though they have neither offended the law of god, or of the nation. published for the clearing of their innocency from the cloud of transgression, of which they are supposed highly guilty, and by reason of their silent abiding such sharp, and long, and cruell sufferings. halhead, miles, or - or . salthouse, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed for giles calvert at the black spread-eagle, near the west end of pauls, london : . annotation on thomason copy: "march. "; also the last number of the imprint date has been marked through. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng salthouse, thomas, - . halhead, miles, or - or . quakers -- england -- early works to . persecution -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the wounds of an enemie in the house of a friend.: being a relation of the hard measure sustained by miles halhead, and thomas salthouse, f halhead, miles b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the wovnds of an enemie in the house of a friend . being a relation of the hard measure sustained by miles halhead , and thomas salthouse , for the testimony of jesus : particularly in a long , and sore , and close imprisonment , first at plymouth , and then at exeter in the county of devon , though they have neither offended the law of god , or of the nation . published for the clearing of their innocency from the cloud of transgression , of which they are supposed highly guilty , and by reason of their silent abiding such sharp , and long , and cruell sufferings . even the sea monsters draw out the brest , they give suck is their young ones ; the daughter of my people is become cruel , like the ostriches in the wildernesse . lam. . . have the workers of iniquity no knowledge ? who eate up my people , as they eate bread , they have not called upon god . there were they in great fear where no fear was , for god hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee , thou hast put them to shame , because god hath despised them , psal. . . the dark places of the earth , are full of the habitation of cruelty , psal. . . for the oppression of the poor , for the sighing of the needy , now will i arise , saith the lord , i will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him , psal. . . if he turn not he will whet his sword , he hath beat his bow and made it ready , he also hath prepared for him the instruments of death , he ordaineth his arrowes against the persecutors . psal. . , . london : printed for giles calvert at the black spread-eagle , near the west end of pauls . the wounds of an enemy , in the house of a friend . miles halhead and thomas salthouse being pressed in spirit , to visite the seed of god in captivity in plymouth in the county of devon , left their outward beings , and relations in the north , and passed thitherward as far as hunniton near the city of exeter , where a guard being placed for the apprehending of such persons as were suspected to have had a hand in an insurrection broke forth a little before ( whilst they were on their journey ) at salisbury , and dispersed at southmoulton , in the county aforesaid , they were taken up by them and brought before colonel cappleston , high-sheriff of the county , upon suspition of being cavileeres , and having had a hand therein ; who having examined them , though he confessed he did not believe them to be cavalieres , not any thing appearing upon , or against them , as matter of suspition , yet caused he them to kept close prisoners , at exeter for the space of about fourteen dayes , and then sent them from officer to officer towards their homes . but being come two miles from taunton on the way to bridgwater , the officer that conducted them from thence , fell to the ground , and lying grovelling thereon in the sight of divers people , was able to goe no further , whereupon they returned back to the justice at taunton , and acquainted him with what had befallen the officer he sent with them , and to know what further he would injoyn them , who after some consideration , told them he would have no more to doe with them , and having set them at liberty desired the lord to be with them . hereupon they passed to bristoll , where , and in the country thereabouts , having stayed some time they departed , being moved of the lord towards plymouth againe ; having with them a friend of bristoll , born at exeter , and certificates from the captaine of the fort at bristoll , and of a justice , concerning them , and their good affections to the common wealth ; which before they had not , being ignorant , when they came out of the north , of any such occasion as had fallen out , whilst they were on their way , that might require any such thing . and so , through the hand of the lord , they came to plymouth the sixteenth day of the month called may , . and there had severall peaceable meetings , in the houses of friends , to whom they ministred what they had heard , and seen , and handled of the word of life , and were made manifest with mighty power to that of god in the consciences of many to whom they were sent , who being thereby turned from darknesse to light , and the eye being opened in them , which the god of this world hath blinded , the captives came to witnesse deliverance , even the acceptable time , the day of salvation . the standard of the lord being thus set up , many people flock thereunto , insomuch that the house of john harris , a friend near the town , where a meeting was appointed to be on the first day of the week following , being not able to receive them , they went into his garden , and to them both in the fore and afternoon did they declare the truth of the experience of what they had found of the free grace of god which brings salvation manifested in them , provoking them unto love , and to good works , according to the scriptures of the prophets , and apostles , as the spirit gave them utterance , exhorting them in the words of sobernesse and truth full of plainnesse and simplicity , and tending onely to the advancement of the kingdome of christ amongst men , without using any inveighings against men , or opinions , and were approved of by those that heard them , though severall came onely to hear some new thing . having both of them spoken , and finished what they had to say , george brookes then priest of the nightingale friggot , a man whom they knew not , spake to the people a pretty space of time , wholly in the praise and commendation of what they had said , affirming it to be the eternall truth , and exhorting them to perseverance , from that scripture , take heed that yee receive not the grace of god in vaine , telling them that they must expect to suffer persecution ; but the principle from whence he spake being seen in the light of jesus christ , which changeth not , with which he was comprehended , thomas salthouse said that he had spoken many good words , and faire speeches , but asked him whether he lived the life of what he spake , for that it was he that had the witnesse in himselfe that setteth to his seale that god is true ; and their friend who came with them from bristoll as aforesaid , told him , he had spoken of a trinity in unity , and a unity in trinity , when as no such language was to be found in the scriptures ; which being ended , thomas salthouse spake a few words more to the people , exhorting them in the words of the apostle , let him that stole , steal no more ; and made use of the words of christ , he that entreth not in by the doore into the sheep-fold , but climbeth up some other way , the same is a thiefe , and a robber ; which he directed not to george brookes , or any one in particular : miles halhead having not spoken one word , nor thomas salthouse otherwise then as afore rehearsed , and so the meeting ended . but the persecution raised against them , then began ; in which the priest aforesaid , to fulfill the words himselfe had said , ( to wit ) that they must expect to suffer persecution , was instrumentall ; and on what was then said to him , being in truth no otherwise then what have been said , as ten honest men of plymouth , then present , have attested under their hands , which is hereunto annexed , is laid the pretended ground of the long and cruell sufferings , which they have , and doe still undergoe , hereafter mentioned . for on the third day of the week following , being the of the month called may , the day before they intended to depart the town , miles and thomas being at a meeting of friends in robert caryes house in the town ; the counstables came thither with a warrant from john page mayor , out of which they took them , and their friend of bristoll , and them having apprehended , they brought before the mayor at his house , who after a few words spoken to them , sent them to prison at the gild-hall , without signifying any crime they had committed , that might deserve a restraint . the next day they were brought from prison before the mayor , magistrates , and counsell , and the priest of the town , and severally examined , the doores being shut and all who were their friends turned out by the constables , not one being suffered to be present at their examination , who any wayes favoured them , to testifie in their behalfe ; and having examined them after this manner for the space of about three hours , they released their friend of bristoll , and returned the other two to prison . in which having continued them some dayes , a friend applyed himselfe to the mayor , and desired of him to know for what they was committed , who positively answered , that they were detained for denying the trinity , and that there had been oath taken before them , for that purpose ; to which accusation though they had fully answered at their examination , yet that their innocency might more clearly appear , they wrote a letter to the mayor , declaring what they held therein , according to the scriptures , against which they excepted not . after the perusall of which , the friend aforesaid went to the mayor againe , to know whether that had given him any satisfaction , and if so , to know what further he had to say against them ; to which the mayor ( finding nothing of exception in their letter , concerning the trinity , which would beare any weight ) answered , that they were detained for refusing to take the oath of abjuration , and upon suspition that they were jesuites ( though many who are any ways ingenious , freely declared they had no such thoughts of them , as indeed they afforded no matter for any such suspition , being plain husband-men , and such as had never been out of this island ) whereupon they sent the mayor a second letter , wherein they set down more plainely the grounds wherefore they could not sweare , then they were admitted to manifest at their examination , though for refusing to take the oath of abjuration the proclamation that inforceth it gives no power of imprisonment , nor injoyns any such thing . notwithstanding all which , having kept them then prisoners for the space of a week ; the mayor sent them in custody the of the same month to the common goal in the castle at exeter , with a warrent under his hand ; wherein he chargeth them , not with the denyall of the trinity or refusing to take the oath of abjuration of popery , the causes as he before said of their imprisonment : but as being apprehended as disturbers of the publick peace , and for divers other high misdemeanours against a late proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers , and other christians in their assemblies and meetings , and against an ordinance of his highnesse the lord protector , and his counsell , lately made against duels , and challenges , and all provocations thereunto : and for refusing to give sufficient suretyes for their personall appearance at the next generall sessions of the peace , to be held for the county of devon , and in the mean time to be of the good behaviour against his highnesse the lord protector , and all his leige people , as by the copy of the warrant at large appeareth : when as they disturbed not the peace in the least , nor them whom they call ministers , nor other christians in their assemblies and meetings , for they were with none of them , nor were any other whilst they had been in the town ; but disturbed they were in their meetings by the mayor , who by his constables and warrant took them out from their meetings , and imprisoned them without a cause , and contrary to the said ordinance , and to the government , which article saith in these words . that all that professe faith in god by jesus christ , though differing in judgement from the doctrine , worship , and discipline publickly held forth , shall not be restrained from , but be protected in the profession of the faith , and exercise of their religion , so as they abuse not this liberty to the civill injury of others , and to the actuall disturbance of the peace , on their parts . provided that this liberty be not extended to popery , prelacy , and to such as under the profession of christ hold forth and practice licentiousnesse . nor challenged they any to duells , or gave any provocation thereunto : the principle by which they are guided , leading out of strifes , debates , and quarrellings ; and the root from whence they proceed ( to wit ) the spirit that is in men , that lusteth unto envy ; and with all men have they peace as far as is possible . and for that clause , for refusing to give sureties for their good behaviour , &c. it would be a matter of admiration that the mayor did not blush to give such a notorious untruth under his hand , when as he knowes two sufficient able men , as to the outward ( to wit ) robert cary , and arthur cotton of that town , were bound before him in such a recognizance for their appearance , as he required , though the next day he made it voyd , were it not that his illegall and oppressive proceedings , and the manifest other lyes with which the warrant is filled , renders him as one that will know no shame . all which more at large appeareth in their answer to this warrant , and the testimony of eleven honest men of that town , who were eye and ear witnesses of these passages , delivered under their hands to major generall disbrow , before the sessions hereafter mentioned , to the truth of their said answer . and for the divers other high misdemeanours , they are yet to mention , and therefore there needs nothing in reply ; for all men who understands the law , know , that a generall charge requires no particular reply , and is as much as nothing . only this may be observed , that he who had so contrary unto law imprisoned them , and kept them for the space of a week , and during that time had shifted from one thing to another as the cause thereof , as hath been said , and then sent them to exeter prison , with this warrant full of other abominable falshoods , there being not one true assertion therein , would no doubt have formed something or other in relation thereunto , had it come within the reach of his invention , which had created and expressed so many therein , known to himself to be so contrary to truth ; and also in his , and his brethrens filthy flattering letter to generall disbrow , in excuse of their unjust proceedings against these innocent servants of the lord , made up with other abominable untruths , by which they endeavoured to beget in him a good opinion of them , for so doing , and to continue his favour to their town , as by a copy of their letter , and miles and thomas answer thereunto , added to this relation , at large appeareth . but being brought to exeter upon the warrant aforesaid , there they continued in the common goal , lying on the ground , untill the generall sessions of the peace of the county held there the tenth of the month called july following , on the day of which month , they were brought before the sessions , to whom the clerk read a bill of indictment exhibited against them upon the ordinance for preventing of duells , wherein was expressed : that they the said thomas and miles not fearing or regarding the same ordinance , and the penalties therein contained , did the of may , . at plymouth in the presence and hearing of divers honest persons then and there being , use diverse disgracefull provoking words and gestures to george brooks clerk in the nightingale friggot , he being then opening and declaring to the same persons a certain place of scripture , wherein he spake something of the holy trinity ( viz. ) thou ( the said george brooks meaning ) lyest in saying there were three persons in the trinity , we deny it , there is no such thing ; but thou art a deluding spirit come to draw away the hearts of the people from god . and further , they did farther speak to the people then present , that they should not hearken to the said george brooks , for that he was a thief , and was come with a lye in his mouth , and had stoln what he had from others , and had it in his hand , pointing to the bible which was then in the said george brooks his hand open . and further did say it was a lye which the said george brooks had brought , and other harms to the said george brooks then and there did contrary to the form of the said ordinance , and against the publick peace . how utterly untrue in every particular this indictment is , both as to the matter and manner of the accusation charged therein , is clearly manifested in the relation aforesaid , of the passages at the meeting , the truth of which is testified under the hands of diverse honest men at plymouth which were present as aforesaid , and the testimony of many more could be had , were not those enough , and in the answer of miles and thomas thereunto , added to this relation ; but having wronged the innocent in that high manner as is expressed , it concerned them , at least , to have something , how false soever , to pretend as a colour in law , as the cause of their so doing . miles halhead spake not a word at the discourse , upon which occasion is taken , and the ground of this indictment laid , and he that saith nothing cannot be made an offendor for a word , though there be that make a man an offendor for a word that is none indeed : nor doth that ordinance require , or any law , that if one man transgresse it ( were it so that thomas salthouse had so done ( which is denyed ) two should suffer , that were to destroy the righteous with the wicked , unto which the law is a terror ; and yet hath miles halhead been imprisoned and indicted , & suffered hath he though he was altogether silent , and without so much as any thing that might be a pretence of offending in the least that ordinance , or any other law of god , or the nation . nor did thomas salthouse speak one word to george brooks in particular , as to what the indictment chargeth ; true it is , after george brookes had spoken so largely in the praise of what they had declared from the lord , saying , it was the eternall truth , and exhorted the people to take heed that they received not the grace of god in vain ; thomas salthouse comprehending the principle from whence he spake , in the light of jesus christ which changeth not , said unto him to this effect , thou hast spoken many good words , and faire speeches , but doest thou live the life of what thou speakest ? for it is he that hath the witnesse in himself , that setteth to his seale that god is true : which were savory words , and feasonable for the directing of his mind , and the hearers also , to see that they witnessed indeed what they spake and professed , and to speak and professe no more then they witnessed , that so he and they might not be deceived with the subtilty of the serpent , in thinking they had that which was eternall life , when in the day of tryall it would appear to be no such matter . this was love to his soule , though in requitall he hath made it matter of persecution . had they come in wayes of craftinesse to deceive , they would have cherished his testimony to the truth of what they had spoken , and not have questioned it with such expressions . allow the dragon but a place in heaven , and he shall cry out , these are the servants of the most high , which shew us the way to salvation ; but cast him out into the earth , his proper seat , and then he makes war with the lamb , and those who have the testimony of jesus . he also exhorted the people , in the close of all , after the end of the discourse aforesaid , in the words of paul , let him that stole steale , no more , and made use of the words of christ , he that entreth not in by the door , into the sheep-fold , but climbeth up some other way , the same is a thief , and a robber ; but directed them not to george brookes , as the indictment hath falsly charged it , nor to any one in particular ; but had they been directed unto him , or to any other in particular , are those words of paul , and of christ , and the language of scripture , disgracefull words , provocations to duells , let that of god in every mans conscience speak , and judge ? therefore behold , i am against the prophets , saith the lord , that steale my words every one from his neighbour , that use their tongues , and say , he saith . had jeremiah lived in these dayes , and spoken these words now , the false prophets now who smite with the fist of wickednesse , would certainly have indicted him upon the ordinance for preventing of duells , and were christ jesus and paul who spake as aforesaid , and all the prophets and holy men of god , now alive in this nation , testifying as they did to the generations in which they lived , of which the scripture bears record , the same would they receive from the priests , and men of this generation ; and yet we find not that the false prophets of old , did indict them for so speaking , as provocation to fightings , nor did they pretend to any law as a cover for so doing ; so far doe the priests and men of this generation , who in works pretend to the prophets , and christ jesus , and the apostles , and the holy men of god , and the scriptures , outstript their fore-fathers in a sottish and malicious persecuting of the truth ; for till this example , the like hath not been heard of since the foundation of the world , and is voyd of understanding , and ridiculous amongst all rationall men . on this foot , he that tells an envious person that he is a murderer , and he that looks on a woman to lust after her is an adulterer , and the covetous person , that he is an idolater , and he that speaketh a divination of his own heart for the word of the lord , useth witchcraft , and he that knowes not , nor speakes from the mouth of the lord , is a dumb dog that cannot bark ; and he that saith when the lord saith not , is a devourer , the murderer of soules ; and he that biteth with his teeth , and prepareth war when men put not into his mouth , is a greedy dog , and those who are in the nature and generation of the pharisees , who professe what they are not , and persecute and murder the life of what they professe where it is manifested , are serpents , generation of vipers , with such like : would be indicted as offendors against the ordinance for preventing of duells . he that taketh what is none of his as to the things without , the things of this world , is a thief , and truly is so judged and accounted of . he that taketh the words of the prophets , and christ jesus , and the apostles , which they spake from the life , and useth his tongue , and saith , the lord saith , when the lord spake not to him , having not the life that spake them forth , taketh that which is none of his , and is a thief , as to the things which are within , the things that are spirituall , and truly is so judged and accounted of . he that steals without hath an outward law to passe upon him as a transgressour ; he that steals within hath the law of christ jesus by which he shall also be judged ; for further then the outward , the law of man hath no power , and this is agreeable to that of god in every mans conscience ; also to the ordinance against duells , which they , and all the children of light own in its place , as a bearing of the sword against fightings , quarrellings , evill speakings , and such like , as evill doing , which the principle of light which is jesus christ discovers , and witnesseth against , and the root from whence they proceed ( to wit ) from mens lusts that are within them . and he that said , let him that stole steale no more , was the minister of god , who addeth the law upon the transgressour ; and he that said . he that entreth not in by the doore into the sheep-fold , but climbeth up some other way , the same is a thief and a robber , is the law-giver , the prophet whom whosoever doth not hear in all things , shall be cut off from his people ; and he that said , i am against the prophets that steales my word every one from his neighbour , is the lord of glory who shall judge the quick and the dead by the man christ jesus , the law-giver , and minister of god , at his appearing and coming . but the priests have gotten a new weapon against the lamb ( to wit ) the ordinance against duells , and with it they will fight against his battle axes and weapons of war , ( to wit ) his witnesses , and none shall testifie against their deceit with a spirituall weapon ; but they will have it to be a carnall one , and will take an ordinance of man to fight against it , and judge it by , which never intended it . but their weapon formed shall not prosper , the overflowing scourge shall sweep away their refuge of lyes , and their coverings are ripping off , nor can the rocks and mountaines hide them from the wrath of him who sitteth on the throne , and judgeth righteously . and whereas something is mentioned in the indictment , of the trinity , one of them said , i know no such scripture that speaks of three persons in the trinity , but the three the scriptures speak of , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , these three are one , and that baptism , by one spirit , into one body , and the father , the word , and the spirit , the scriptures declare to be one , and he that hath the son , hath the father also , and this we own ; he that can receive it , let him . and this was spoken as to what g. brookes said of a trinity in unity , and a unity in trinity , which as he was told the scriptures no where spake . court . to this indictment they were demanded to answer guilty , or not guilty ? answer . we are not guilty in what is there charged upon us . court . by whom will you be tryed ? answer . by you whom the lord god of power hath set in authority , to judge righteously between man and man , and to put a difference between the precious and the vile , and set the oppressed free , from whom we doe expect justice and equity . court . will ye be tryed by god and the country ? answer . we are willing to be tryed by this bench , and desire that our accusers may be brought in , and that we may have liberty to speak for our selves , and make our defence against the false accusations laid to our charge . court . will ye be judges of your own case ? jaylor , take them away , which was done immediately . when they were first apprehended , and brought before the mayor and magistrates of plymouth , many honest people , who were present at the meeting aforesaid , and were ready in the hall to testifie the truth of things , were all turned out , and not a man or woman that favoured them permitted to stay , notwithstanding which , and the keeping fast of the doores of the common hall , that so none of them might returne in , did they in the presence of near one hundred of other people , desire openly , that if either man or woman , had any thing to lay to their charge , they would speak : but no man or woman appeared to speak , nor ever were their accusers brought face to face , that they might see them , or hear them speak . and now after seven weeks imprisonment , being brought before the sessions , and such an abominable pack of falshood , and lyes , in an indictment exhibited against them , unto which they pleaded not guilty ; and declared againe and againe in answer to what they required of them , ( to wit ) by whom will ye be tryed ? that they were willing to be tryed by the bench , whom the lord god of power had set in authority , to judge righteously between man and man , &c. as aforesaid , and desired their accusers might be brought in , and that they might have liberty to speak for themselves , and make their defence against the false accusations layed to their charge ; because they spake it not in the form of words which they would have , though they both pleaded , and submitted to a tryall , as aforesaid , and a jury might they have called , and tryed them by , or otherwise as they pleased ; they asked them whether they would be judges in their own case ? when as they desired no such thing , but to be tryed by them who were in authority , and turned them aside for a thing of naught , and called to the jaylor to take them away , which command of theirs was presently executed . and here let all that are sober , and who calmnly weigh things in the balance of equity , judge , whether innocent men in a case of this nature , wherein without a cause , and contrary to the law of the land they were imprisoned , and so hardly dealt withall , and wickedly indicted , and stood before enemies , having largely experienced that neither law nor justice had took place in their behalfe ; but oppression and cruelty as hath been mentioned , should , for their parts , being demanded by whom they would be tryed , make in reason , equity , and justice , any other answer , then by those whom the lord god of power hath set in authority to judge righteously between man and man , and to put a difference between the precious and the vile , and to set the oppressed free , from whom they expected equity and justice ; or to put themselves on any other issues without being guilty of a manifest wilfull throwing away of their innocency , and of a continuation of sufferings by their own consent : if those in authority will have a tryall by other manner of men , that they cannot help , and of their sufferings that might follow thereupon , they are not accessary , nor will it by such men be judged a contempt of authority in that they submit to a tryall . a man will in reason chuse to have right taken away from him by force , rather then to put himselfe upon an issue , from which he can expect no other , and so as it were by his own consent to give it away . and to that of god in the consciences of those then present , and of all others , who seriously observe , with what rage , and malice , these innocent people are prosecuted , and how contrary to law , and justice , proceedings are every where had against them ; as if they were fit onely to be destroyed , yea , even to that of god in the consciences of their enemies themselves , doe i appeal , whether righteous judgement can be by them expected from those , whom the lord god of power hath not set in authority to judge righteously between man and man , and to put a difference between the precious and the vile , in things relating to the kingdome of jesus christ , which can onely be seen and judged in his light , to whom all judgement is given both in heaven and in earth ; and the children of light can give consent to no other judgement , and tryall ; nor , from any other can they expect right , and judgement , but where that is . but to put this matter out of doubt , and to manifest how instead of seeking judgement , and relieving the oppressed , which the lord requires who is a god of judgement , the needy are turned aside from judgement , and the righteousnesse of the righteous taken from him . those who understand the law , know , that as to all indictments of trespasse ( of which nature this is pretended to be ) of misdemeanor , and breach of the peace , to answer not guilty , or to put in a traverse is a sufficient legall plea ; and the clerk of the peace is to record it , and joyne issue , and is punishable , if he doth it not : and that onely in cases of life , the law or custome of england requires the person indicted to joyne this issue of saying , by the country , when after he hath pleaded not guilty , it is demanded of him , by whom he will be tryed ? and here all people may take notice what measure of injustice these innocent servants of the lord receive , who are sent to prison instead of being heard in their just defence , and their accusers brought forth , when after they had legally pleaded these things were by them lawfully demanded : and how contrary to law , and justice , and to the libertyes of englishmen lately vindicated with so much blood , is this proceeding ? how plainly doth it speak as if no other thing were intended in bringing them to the bar , then to asperse , and destroy their innocency , as their libertyes had been before injured by above seven weeks imprisonment ; and by arraigning them as abominable offenders in the face of the country , to endeavour to render them odious to the people who had heard so much of their oppressions , and thereby amongst them to seek to beget a beliefe that their sufferings were just , from which least they should clear themselves , and in so doing their long sufferings come to an end , ( which to lengthen and make grievous to the purpose resolutions were had ) to prison they are sent , and the benefit of the law denyed them in a tryall . what greater injustice can there be then this , and oppression ? what higher violation of law , and liberty ? of these things the roman heathen were not guilty , and to be so dealt withall the worst of their adversaryes would cry out against ; were it his own case , as justly he might . yet this is the measure which the witnesses of the great and living god receive from this adulterous generation , and who is there that regardeth , or layeth it to heart ? though it is every mans concernment , and may become the condition of others , how soon they know not . to close this particular , let the wise in heart judge , whether amongst those a man is found whom the lord god of power hath set in authority to judg righteously between man & man , & to put a difference between the precious and the vile ; who , thus , turne aside the needy from judgement , and take the righteousnesse of the righteous from him ? and whether they had not cause to say , being asked by whom they would be tryed , that they desired to be tryed by such whom the lord god in power had set in authority to judge righteously , as aforesaid . about the space of an houre after they were called in again . court . it is thought fit that you take the oath of abjuration because of your contempt of authority , which accordingly was to them tendred , and a bible holden to them , that they might swear . answer . in the presence of the eternall god , and before all this people , we doe deny with as much detestation , as any of you doth , the pope , and his supremacy , and the purgatory , and all therein mentioned , and declare freely against it ; and we doe not deny to swear because of any guilt that is upon us , but in obedience to the command of christ , who saith , swear not at all ; and we will not come under the condemnation of an oath for the liberty of the outward man : after which they were returned to prison . the mayor of plymouth when he first apprehended them , tendred them this oath , which when they had refused , and given the reasons of their so doing , he sent them back to prison , and afterwards signifying that as the cause of their detainment to a friend , they sent him in writing more fully their answer there unto , then they had liberty to expresse , when they were examined ; but there still continued them prisoners : and now after seven weeks further durance , it was tendred them againe , and they refusing are returned againe to prison . christ jesus the onely a beggoten son of god , by whom the b world was made , the c light of the world , who d lighteth every one that cometh into the world , who is greater then e solomon , who is f davids g root , and lord , whose day h abraham saw , and rejoyced ; whom i the angels of god are commanded to worship ; who is the k end of the law for righteousnesse to every one that believeth : l the surety of a better testament ; the m mediator of a better , of the n everlasting , new covenant : the o prophet whom moses said the lord their god should raise up like unto him , whom they should hear in all things whatsoever he should say unto them , and it shall come to passe , that every soule that will not hear that prophet shall be destroyed from amongst the people : he who p said heaven , and earth , shall passe away , but my word shall not passe away : who q came not to destroy the law , of the prophets , but to fulfill : who is r the oath of god , the ſ end of contention and strife where he is witnessed , the amen , the faithfull and true witnesse , t the judge of all , whose u sheep hear his voyce , saith , you x have heard it hath been said by them of old time , thou shalt not forswear thy selfe , but shalt performe unto the lord thine oathes ; but i say unto you , swear not at all , but let your communications be yea , yea , and nay , nay , for whatsoever is more then these cometh of evill . then which there is no command in scripture more plaine , and positive , either for obedience to magistrates , or forbidding to doe that which is evill . and the apostle james saith , but z above all things my brethren swear not , neither by heaven , neither by the earth , neither by any other oath , but let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , least ye fall into condemnation . and yet how are his sheep the children whom the father hath given him , and who in obedience to this his command , dare not to swear at all , but are come to the yea and nay in their communications , imprisoned and cruelly dealt withall throughout this nation , for refusing in conscience to swear at the will of man ; who calls himselfe a magistrate of god , and requires obedience as to the minister of god to this his command , which is contrary to the command of the higher powers , jesus christ by whom a kings reigne , and princes execute justice , to whom b all power belongeth , unto whom the father hath committed all judgement , and at whose c name every knee shall bow , of things in heaven , and things in earth , and things under the earth , and every tongue shall confesse , and who will render d tribulation , and anguish upon every soule that doth evill , to the jew first , and also to the gentile , for there is no respect of persons with god . and yet those who swears , where they forbid , them they punish , and thus doe they exalt themselves above all that is called god . the bloody persecutors in the times of popery , thought not their other persecutions of the poor protestants to secure the papacy against them ; but the sacrament of the altar they had by a law , whereupon to examine them , by which they sought to destroy their consciences , or their bodies in the fire ; and many of their lives they had in witnesse of the truth against it : upon whose examinations the next question usually was , what say you to the sacrament of the altar ? and where they suspected a man to be a heretick ( as they called then the witnesse of the lord ) and had malice against him , presently was tendred the sacrament of the altar . the bishops of late who in words denyed the sacrament of the altar , and cryed out against the papists , for shedding of the blood of the martyrs , who testified against it , were not satisfied with what dispersions they had made of the tender conscientous puritans the witnesses then , against them , in , and out of these dominions ; but that their kingdome might be established , and remaine unmoveable , an oath , et caetera , they had , for every one to take , who should be admitted priest , to uphold the government by arch-bishops , bishops , &c. whereby to catch , and work out of the priesthood , and their beings , and lively hoods , the residue of those non conformable factious men , ( as they called them ) whom by no other device they could reach , or attach ; and at length the sword they drew , and joyned with the papists in a war against them . these carrying the war against the bishops , and papists , a part of them climbing up into the chaire of presbytery to affect , and establish the authority they intended over the state , and the consciences of their brethren in the three nations , had a covenant , and neither in church ( as they called it ) nor state ( and how universall as to others time had manifested , as it was by some timely foreseen , and understood , and prevented ) was any to be intrusted : but such as should subscribe to that , and as many of those as they could ( though never so deserving in the wars for the nations interest , of liberty , and justice , and faithfull ) turned they out of imployment , who in conscience scrupled it , as hereticks , and schismaticks , though above any of them they affectually answered the just and righteous ends thereof : but what use these men of the presbitery made of it against the libertyes of england , and what a snare it proved as to that , is not yet forgotten ; and when they saw they could not submit the army thereto , who were made the sword of the lord ; for the ending of the wars against the papists , and the bishops , they drew the sword against them , and their poor wasted countrey , and not prevailing in a first war , many of them joyned with the papists , and the bishops , and the then neighbour nation of scotland , and the rebells in ireland , and the common enemy yet to accomplish . and now an oath of abjuration of popery is found out , and tendred to them to swear , as suspected papists , upon the penalty of the sequestration of their estates , if they refuse , who have been known throughout their time , to be constant witnesses for the truth , and most faithfull to the common wealth , and its army , and have born the brunt and heat of the day in the late wars , with the perill of their lives in the field , and the losse of their estates , against the popish , prelaticall , and presbyterian party , and have been known all their time to be most contrary to popery , and now in life above any , witnesse against all popish and formall religion , who dare not in conscience to the command of christ , swear at all . and these are the men in severall parts , who are summoned by prelaticall , malignant , and presbyterian justices so called to abjure popery , or their names and habitations to be taken , and returned into the exchequer , for the sequestration of their estates ; and these are the men who are taken up in the country as they are upon their lawfull occasions , against whom there being no accusation in law , this oath is put to them , which because they refuse to take out of conscience to an oath , not daring to swear at all , because of the command of christ jesus the great law-giver , are imprisoned , where many of them have a long time layn , and doe yet lye , though contrary to law , not unknown to the chief in authority , some of whom have personally pressed it . and not only is this exercised upon men , but on women also , who till this day since the times of popery , were never known to be so used , but have been forborn , as that which hath been accounted below the dignity and spirit of a man to exact . and the next word now to any one who is reproached with the name of quaker , who are known out of conscience , not to dare to swear at all , is usually , give him or her the oath of abjuration of popery , though he be their neighbour , whom they know to be , and their consciences tells them , is far from any such thing ; and there they are sure to catch him , and to have their revenge on him for witnessing the truth as it is in jesus : when otherwise they cannot get him into the compasse or pretence of any law , and having fast here , there he may lye for the eternall truth for which he suffers , seeks not to man for deliverance , and those who should regard care little for the matter , and the cry of their oppressions seldome enters into their ears . thus in all ages hath error sought to support it self against the truth , and to ensnare the consciences of those of her children with oaths , when other manner of persecutions have not reached , that so she might be secure , and never know sorrow : which oaths , as they are out of the doctrine of christ , so a curse have they proved , instead of a defence , and the beginner and certaine fore-runner of the destruction and finall overthrow of that kingdome , as these and former generations have witnessed , though before in never so promising and flourishing condition , and seeming in its own eye to want nothing , but oaths to establish it . and now the witnesse of god is drawn forth against this , and all manner of swearing , and it is witnessing in sufferings , at the hands of those on whom was pressed the oath , &c. and the covenant , and who in their time suffered by , and testified and fought against those who imposed and sought to establish both ; and also against the bishops oath ex officio , which required a man to swear against himself ; and whether the imposing of an oath upon a man to abjure what is supposed to be his conscience wherewithall to worship god , upon the penalty of loosing his estate , if he refuse , be lesse , let the wise in heart , judge ? and whether upon the same ground , and by the same rule , the like oath may not be imposed as to any other thing , and exacted upon the same penalty ? the witnesse of god hath its time of raigning as well as suffering , and will as certainly raigne , as it doth suffer ; it was ever so in all ages , these later , above any , have known it so , and so it will be in this , and in the ages to come : let those whom it concerns , who have had a time of suffering and reigning , and now cause others to suffer , consider before it be too late , the judge standeth at the door , and according to the greatnesse and majesty of the truth that is witnessed , and the sufferings that attend its testimony , and the condition of those who cause it to suffer , as having been witnesses and sufferers themselves , and the sword of the lord upon that which hath caused to suffer , and have known his presence and mighty power therein wonderfully , and his strange overturnings , whereby to cause to raigne what hath been so testified unto by sufferings , will be the judgement , except they repent . you only have i known of all the families of the earth , therefore will i punish you for your iniquities , saith the lord . whilst they are the sufferings of sion , who is there that considereth or layeth them to heart ; but the rod of the wicked shall not alwayes lye on the back of the righteous ; there 's a time when the testimony of the truth in sufferings will be finished , and other men will have their day , who have cryed aha , and nagged the head , and stamped with the feet , and helped on their sufferings , and caused them to suffer , and looked on their brethren in the day of their distresse , wherein the lord will mock at their calamity and their sorrowes which shall come upon them , as on a woman in travell , and they shall not escape , whilst the righteous who have mourned in sion , joy in the lord , and rejoyce in the god of their salvation , having beauty for ashes , the oyle of joy for mourning , and the garments of praise for the spirit of heavinesse ; for god is judge . the next day they were brought before the bench again . court . will ye confesse that you wronged g. brookes , in calling of him thief , and be sorry for it , and make him satisfaction ? answ . one of us did not speak one word to him , and therefore i deny to make him satisfaction , or to be sorry for it , and what was spoken was no such thing ; therefore we will not lye for our liberty , nor confesse that we are sorry for that which we never spoke . court . you are fined five pound a piece , and must goe to the house of correction till payment , and to find sureties for your good behaviour ; and for refusing to take the oath , we shall take course to send to the north to seize on your estates , according to the proclamation . and so to prison were they returned , and what followes entred as the record of their proceedings . a calender of the prisoners tryed and delivered at the generall sessions of the peace publick holden at the castle of exon. july . . thomas salthouse and miles halhead , for provoking words against george brooks , clerk , who refused to be tryed by the countrey , fined l. a piece , committed to bridewell , till payment , and finding sureties for their good behaviour . and thus as the day before they were returned to prison , instead of being admitted to a tryall according to law , after the indictment against them was read , and they had made a sufficient legall plea thereunto , and desired their accusers might be brought in , and they liberty to speak in their own defence ; as aforesaid , so now judgement is given against them without a tryall , or hearing , or bringing in so much as one accuser , and yet the record saith , a calender of the prisoners tryed . have such things as these before these dayes been heard of in this nation ? is it not hereby manifest , that nothing but to cause the innocent to suffer is sought after by them , who to help those to right , that suffer wrong , and to relieve the oppressed , are entrusted by the law ? and is not the justice and relief of the law hereby made voyd , and of none effect , and trampled under foot by those who are in commission to execute justice ? what is become of liberty , of liberty for tender consciences ? if things must be so , talke no more of law , let not liberty come forth of your lips . when they were first imprisoned at plymouth , the mayor said they were detained for denying the trinity , then for refusing to take the oath of abjuration , then he sent them to the common goal at exeter , and charged them with disturbing of the peace , and other high misdemeanours against the act prohibiting the disturbing of ministers and other christians in their peaceable assemblies , and against the ordinance for preventing of duells , and for not finding sureties for their good behaviour . at this sessions they are indicted for disgracefull provoking words spoken to g. brookes , calling him thief , &c. that being read , they are had a way , and being brought again the oath of abjuration of popery was tendred them , after which they are returned to prison , and the next day are demanded to confesse that they had wronged g. brooks , in calling him thief , and to be sorry for it , and to make him satisfaction . ( what turnings are here , and falshoods traversed to destroy the innocent ? ) when as one of them spake not a word to him , and the other no such word , nor to any such purpose , as is contained in the indictment , as is already manifested , and as in their answer to the warrant by which they were committed , and the attestation of ten honest men at plymouth , delivered to generall disbrow , and in another declaration of theirs all hereunto annexed , at large appeareth ; and notwithstanding no accuser was ever brought to their faces , and thy heard in their own defence , or to speak for themselves , though both at plymouth , and this sessions they demanded it ; and because they denyed to make him satisfaction for what they never did , and to be sorry for words which they never spoke , and so to lye for their liberty . a legall tryall is denyed them , and without a tryall , or hearing , judgement given against them , wherein they are fined l. a piece , and committed to bridewell till payment , and finding sureties for their good behaviour , after their having been kept prisoners for above seven weeks before , and in that manner as aforesaid , by those who had broke the law upon them in taking them from their peaceable meeting waiting on the lord , when as they had transgressed no law . and to make sure work have they cast them into a place which is no prison in law , and therefore a remove cannot be had out of it by a habeas corpus to the upper bench , nor falls it under the consideration of the judges in their circuits . doth our law judge a man before it hear him , and know what he doth ? and indeed well might they avoyd it , and be ashamed of their cause and proof , for besides a cloud of witnesses which could have been brought , and divers that were then present ready to give testimony to the contrary , as hath been mentioned , and of the innocency and harmlesnesse of that meeting , and what was said therein , upon which is grounded as is pretended the cause of all their sufferings . peter pepham one of the witnesses which were ready to swear against them , was heard to say the day before his going to exeter to this effect , i am going to swear against the quaker , and if swearing will doe it , i will make them to suffer soundly : he being a known cavaliere , and sometime a servant to duke hamilton . and besides g. brookes and his two witnesses , there is not one to be found of these many who made up the meeting , of whom divers came out of novelty to testifie what they affirm ; but the contrary for what they spake was generally well approved of . and to mention only one particular , one who had been a captain in the kings army , very well known in plymouth , did freely declare to a friend , that having a scorn and contempt of the men and their way , his end in coming to hear them , was to see what he could catch from them , to render them odious ; but having heard them , he confessed that he thought them to be harmlesse , innocent , honest men , and he would not lift up a finger against them , if he might gain thereby ten thousand pounds . and he freely declared to both the witn●sses with whom he was very well acquainted , that if they swore any evill against them , they would be perjured men . also that he never was so much convinced of the evill of his wayes , and the power of god , by any minister that he had heard for many years before . and for g. brookes himself , he is one whole conversation stinks in the nostrills of those who savour of civility and honesty , who know him and his conversation . there needs to this no further instance then of his beastly & wicked behaviour in the nightingale friggot , of which he was then priest , which was such , that even some of the seamen of that ship , justified one who reproved him to his face , of the vanity & madnesse , of his conversation , about three weeks before the meeting aforesaid , and told the said george brooks , that they should not be so wicked in their wayes , were it not for his example . and the steward of the ship aforesaid , in the presence of two or three witnesses affirmed , that he was had and wicked enough before the said george brooks came into the ship , but since , he was ten times worse ; and that he , and some other in the ship , could not endure to hear him preaching or bauling ( as he called it ) yea a friend of the said priests , who manifesting some dislike in the garden at the meeting aforesaid , that his friend g. brooks should be questioned by what spirit he spake , at length confessed , that his life was not conformable to his doctrine . and so abominable was his filthinesse , that in the same frigot was he made a publick example for his drunkennesse , having a quarter canne hanged about his neck , and is since for that and his other wickednesse set on shore , or turned out or the said ship , as appeareth by the certificates of the captain of that friggot , and two other captaines of friggots hereunto annexed . and yet in the cause and behalf of this son of belial , so full of lyes and falshoods in every particular , are the innocent servants of christ oppressed and afflicted , as if they were not fit to live , and after almost two months imprisonment lying on the ground , because they refused to confesse and be sorry for calling him thief , which they never did , nor was there any one that made proof thereof to their faces , after their long and hard bonds , as aforesaid ; for provoking words to him the said g. brookes ( as it is falsly alledged ) without a tryall , are they fined l. a piece , and committed to the house of correction , till payment , and finding sureties for their good behaviour . and not only so , but for refusing to take the oath of abjuration out of conscience to the command of christ jesus ( none appearing to testifie to their faces that they suspected them to be papists , or popishly affected ) as an addition to the former , as if what hath been already expressed had not been enough suffering , they are told by the bench that therefore to the north would they send to have their estates sequestred , according to the proclamation ; and so in prison they are judged to lye , till they pay five pound a piece , where they owe nothing , and their estates to be sequestred , out of which they can only have money where withall to discharge it ; and whether this intended any other then a perpetuall imprisonment , let the reasonable judge . and that the abominablenesse of these illegall and oppressive proceedings may seem to have som cover in the record of the judgement given against them , without a hearing as aforesaid ; 't is inserted , who refused to be tryed by the country , when as they pleaded to the indictment not guilty ; and although his answer was enough in law , yet being demanded further , by whom they would be tryed ? they answered again and again , by you , the bench , whom the lord god of power hath set in authority to judge righteously between man and man , and to put a difference between the precious and the vile , and to set the oppressed free , from whom we doe expect justice , and equity , and desire that our accusers may be brought in , that we may have liberty to speak for our selves , and make our defence against the fals accusations laid to our charge . and upon what issue they pleased might the court have put them ; for though they being asked by whom they would be tryed , gave no other answer then hath been expressed : and for the reasons aforesaid , could they be in law , or equity , expected any otherwise to doe ; yet plead they did , and to tryall they submitted , by the bench , whom they owned to be set in authority by the lord god of power to judge righteously between man and man , &c. and desired that their accusers might be brought in , and their liberty to speak in their own defence , and had witnesses in their own behalf ready , and from them expected an issue , according to equity , and justice , and refused not to be tryed by the country , but submitted to be tryed by those whom god had set in authority to judge righteously , and such judgement is the lords , for god is judge , and no other judgement can the children of light put themselves upon , but his upon which as it rules man they put themselves , but not on the wills and lusts of men , as added or equall unto god , or joyned with him ; for man not guided by the ligh● of jesus christ , is blind , and dark , and erres in judgement , and is as the beast that perisheth , though even the wills and lusts of men in imposing sufferings upon them in their bodies , they doe not resist , as all parts of the nation sadly testifie , and particulary the town of plymouth , and city of exeter , and county of devon , the black habitations of cruelty , and persecuting of the just . nor is this the end , but rather the beginning of their sufferings , for the of the said fifth month called july , being removed from the common goal in the castle of exeter , to bridewell in thomas parish near exeter , over and above the order of sessions , a guard of souldiers under the command of col. coppleston high sheriff of the county , who was formerly a commander for the late king in the wars against the parliament , was placed upon them , with strict warrant in writing , signed by one joyce a captain , to detain all such prisoners who came to visit them , whom in the warrant he in scorn calls quakers ( giving the prisoners aforesaid no other name therein ) especially such as they should suspect to be such ; who having shut them up in a close dark room , where they lay on the ground many dayes , kept them close prisoners , and with much violence intreated , and detained prisoners , those who came to visit them , whether of the town , or country , and to relieve them with necessaries , though they were strangers in that place , and above two hundred miles from their outward habitations ; yea such as looked in but at a hole where they lay , did they so use . and whereas there was a friend in the town who came to see them , him they imprisoned , though he knew not of any order for their close restraint ; and notwithstanding that he was then a constable of the parish , and a man known alwayes to be faithfull and active for the common-wealth , and its army , and of a godly and sober conversation ; whom also they sometime afterwards imprisoned again , for coming in to them , though he was there upon the perswasion of the officer , who when he asked for them , being unwilling to goe in , told him he might see them freely without danger , and went in with him , and stood between the souldiers and him ; but being there , private notice presently was sent to an attendant of the sheriffs , who ordered his detainment , and being kept in prison that night , the next morning he prevailed with the souldiers to bring him before the sheriff , who at first ordered him to prison again , but having heard him , released him with threatnings , what he would doe unto him , if he came there once more . and a woman of totnes in the same county , they kept two dayes and two nights on the guard , for coming to see them . and though upon the cry of these their sore oppressions , several friends , to the truth from divers parts of the nation came to see them , and to search whether , after all the blood that hath been shed , such sufferings could possibly dare to be exercised , amongst whom was some , who had been members of the army , and in places not of the least trust , and eminency in the nation , men of activity , and service , and of unspotted integrity , and of considerable estates , as to the outward in the world , yet have they received the same uncivill , and barbarous usage , some of them have been threatned to be taken into prison ; for being in the outward court , and speaking to them , others detained on the guard , and to their inns hath the mayor of the town sent his officers to know their names , as if they were some dangerous persons , and when they have asked , to see his warrant , when his officers have required them to come before him , a company of butchers was got to bring them thither by force , in case they had refused , though when they came before him , he had nothing to say unto them , wherefore they were thus dealt with ; and some have been had up to the castle , and kept in custody there , and searched , and others detained in their inns , as they have lodged there passing into the country , and searched , and their papers taken from them , though onely of private concernment ; and when any friends have obtained liberty to see them , the souldiers stand by to hear what they say . and lately seized them on all the papers of those two prisoners , and took them away . and to this day are they continued prisoners , and the guard of souldiers upon them , who imprison friends as aforesaid , according to their pleasure , though divers of them confesse that what they doe is against their conscience , and that they know no law for what they doe , and that it is contrary to the liberty they have fought for , but they must obey the orders of their superiour officers , or they shall be turned out of their places , and livelyhood : and even , when those cruelties have been exercised upon them , the cavaliers in the same prison , in custody upon the late insurrections , have had no guard upon them , nor their friends hindered from visiting them , and bringing them necessaries , and out of the prison have they leave to walk to friends houses without any one to attend them , onely those two innocent servants of the lord , who have been constant faithfull friends to the common wealth , are thus guarded , kept close prisoners , and dealt withall as is aforesaid , beyond the example of the highest offenders , whether of thieves , robbers , or murderers , in that county , of which particulars could be instanced were it not too large for this short relation . nor during the time of their long imprisonment ( to wit ) for near seven months under this close restraint , and above seven weeks before at plymouth , and the castle of exon , have their persecutors administred unto them , or caused any to take care that they had those accomodations that were necessary for men : but as if nothing else were intended , but the starving of them , and causing them to wear , and wast , and to dye in a miserable languishment , far from friends , and reliefe in the heat of summer , and sharp cold of winter , such hath been the cruell dealing with them , as hath been rehearsed without naturall affection , or common humanity , and contrary to all law , and justice , and liberty , and the righteous ends for which the late blood hath been shed , and the many and solemn ingagements made before , and to god , and this nation . and had not some broke through their violence , and other difficulties , and resolvedly watched all opportunities to relieve them , nothing had been expected as to men , but that they had long since perished with famine , and necessity . if a man hath broken the law it is something to him that the law is to be known and the punishment that it inflicteth for the breach thereof , by which he understanding the extent of the law , and having satisfied what it requires , may come to the end of his trouble . or if a man suffer being innocent upon a pretence of a law which he hath not offended , it is something to know what that law is , and what it requires of those who offend it : but neither to have offended the law of god , or the nation ; but to have both broken on him even by those who are in commission , as ministers of the law , for the protecting of the innocent , and punishing of the guilty , who thereby become themselves transgressours of the law , and lyable to the penalties thereof ; and yet neverthelesse being innocent to be by such punished as guilty beyond the direction of any law and contrary thereunto in long and cruell imprisonments ; and when brought before the bench to be denyed hearing and tryall according to law , and yet judgement to be given , wherein are exactions of such fines of other performances , for such causes expressed , as are utterly untrue , and the imprisonment to continue till there be a satisfying thereof ; and such an imprisonment as from it appeals cannot be had to the higher courts for justice , as house of correction are , which are no prisons in law , and therefore without the cognizance of the judges in the circuits , or the vpper bench by habeas corpus , and which to satisfie a man cannot without an acknowledgement of guilt , and giving away the righteousness of his cause , which is to be prized above all things , will be accounted very hard , and grievous , even by every man , who seriously makes it his own condition , as indeed it is every mans ; for what is done to the injury of one mans liberty , is done unto all : but to have hereunto added guards of souldiers , who have fought for liberty with whom , and in the same cause of liberty and justice a man hath ingaged his life , and what is dear to him , in the time of peace , after that cause hath prevailed , by such as have drawn the sword , and been in command against it , and by souldiers who formerly were the reliefe of the oppressed , to be oppressed , and kept close prisoners from friends and accomodations ( contrary to the law ; for in no case whatsoever doth it require a close imprisonment , but provides against it ) in a strange place some hundreds of miles from his outward being for many months together , in heat , and cold , of which he can understand no end , as he can know no reason for their so doing , and during all this time , having not so much as an accuser brought to his face , nor he heard in his own defence , against the manifold false accusations , and shiftings from one lye to another , as the pretence of his sufferings , and such friends as come to visit him , whether from far , or near at hand , citizen , or stranger , violently to be intreated , and detained in prison , yea for but looking in at a hole where he lyes : and if any obtain leave to see him , not to be permitted to speak with him without a souldier by to hear what is said , and to have his friends searched , and his , and their papers , and letters of private concernment only taken away , as if there were some dangerous treason by him designing , though he stands onely a prisoner of innocency , and never had any such thing layed to his charge , when as at the same time , and at the same prison those in custody , who have been cavaliers , and clapt up , as having had to doe in the generall insurrection , have had no guard upon them , but liberty of friends , and accomodations , and of going forth to their friends houses , without so much as a keeper ; and during this long and close imprisonment to have none appointed by those who cause him so to be kept to take care of him , and to administer the reliefe that is fitting to a man , nor to have any reliefe to be administred to him , by such , or in such a way , would be esteemed highly oppressive , and unsupportable , even by the chiefest of their persecutors , were it , or did he make it his own condition , and the soule of every english man , would it greatly afflict who retaines the sence of another mans condition , as of his own , and is not blinded with prejudice , and hurried with rage , and madnesse by the prince of the aire , who rules mightily in the children of disobedience , beyond bowells and naturall affection . and this is the case , and this is the condition of these two innocent servants of the lord , who having all their dayes been seeking after the lord , and walking in that which is called good conscience , and godlinesse , and having at length through the riches of that free love of god in jesus christ , come to find what they had so diligently sought for , even eternall life , which is in the son , and to witnesse it in their measures , and in the light of jesus christ , by whom the world was made to comprehend and see where all professions and people are , who know not nor believe in the light , ( to wit ) jesus christ the light of the world , who lighteth every one that cometh into the world , nor doe witnesse the life of jesus made manifest in them , as by the light they have been brought to see it in their owne particulars ; and knowing the terrours of the lord , out of bowels of love to the precious soules of people , which are eternall , and at the command of the lord have left their country , and relations as to the outward in the north , and travelled for their sakes to shew unto them what they had found , and tasted , and seen , and handled of the word of life , that so their soules might be saved in the day of the lord jesus ; and being come thither , did no other thing , then to meet in the fear of the lord , with friends to wait upon him , and to declare the truth of the experience of what they had found of the free grace of god , which brings salvation , manifested in them , provoking them unto love , and to good works according to the scriptures of the prophets , and apostles , and exhorting to holinesse , and the things that are eternall , as the day approacheth from the measure of the life of god , which they had received , as the spirit gave them utterance ; out of which meetings they were taken contrary to the practice of the church of christ , and the example of the saints in the scriptures , and the instrument of government ; and dealt withall as hath been mentioned : and which indeed is hardly to be believed ; but hath been said , is true , for no other thing , but as aforesaid , have they done , or that is not according to the righteous law of the holy god , which shall be answered with that in every mans conscience . and to make appear truly to the contrary , are all men here openly charged , who can , even their greatest adversaries , because of whose cruelty , and oppression , and to manifest what it is , this relation is undertaken . neverthelesse through the power of the lord , in whom is everlasting strength , whom they witnesse , and for whom they suffer , they glory in tribulation , and stands over the heads of their greatest enemies , who puffe at them , knowing , that he who shall come , will come , and will not tarry , when their testimony in sufferings is finished , for the seeds sake , and the glorious gospel of our lord jesus , for whom they suffer in bonds , and are ready even unto the death , from the hands of those , who professe him as dying at jerusalem , and yet crucifie him in his truth , & members , and have the generation of their forefathers from the beginning : and then neither guards nor gates shall be able to keep them ; for our god is king over the whole earth , and his kingdome is begun to be set up , and to him whom man despiseth , to him whom the nation abhorreth , to a servant of rulers kings shall see and arise , princes also shall worship , because of the lord who is faithfull , and the holy one of israel which hath chosen him , saith the lord , the redeemer of israel , and his holy one , who commandeth deliverance for jacob ▪ and kings shall be thy nursing fathers , and their queens thy nursing mothers , they shall bow down to thee with their faces towards the earth and lick up the dust of feet , and thou shalt know that i am the lord , for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me . the sons also of those that afflict thee , shall come bending unto thee , and all those that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet , and they shall call thee , the city of the lord , the syon of the holy one of israel . whereas thou hast been forsaken , and hated , so that no man went through thee , i will make thee an eternall excelency , a joy of many generations . thou shalt also suck the milk of the gentiles , and shalt suck the breasts of kings , and thou shalt know that i the lord am thy saviour , and thy redeemer , the mighty one of jacob ; for thus saith the lord , even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away , and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered : for i will contend with them that contendeth with thee , and i will save thy children , and i will feed them that oppresse thee with their own flesh , and they shall be drunken , with their own blood , as with sweet wine , and all flesh shall know that i the lord am thy saviour , and redeemer the mighty one of jacob . and the nation , and the kingdome , that will not serve thee shall perish , yea , those nations shall be utterly wasted . therefore hear now this thou afflicted and drunken but not with wine , thus saith thy lord , the lord , and thy god that pleadeth the cause of his people , behold i have taken out of thy hand , the cup of trembling , even the dregs of the cup of my fury , thou shalt no more drink it againe ; but i will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee , which have said to thy soule , bow down that we may goe over , and thou hast layed thy body as the ground , and as the street to them that went over . a testimoniall of severall honest men of plymouth , concerning the meeting aforesaid , and the passages thereat , upon which is laid the pretended ground , and cause of the sufferings of miles halhead , and thomas salthouse , at which they were present . forasmuch as we are concerned in the sufferings of our dear friends thomas salthouse , and miles halhead , who have been kept close prisoners in and near the city of exeter almost six months contrary to equity , and justice , they having not broken the least clause of any law , we think it necessary to give a briefe relation of the state of their sufferings . after some trouble , and difficulty , which the said thomas salthouse , and miles halhead indured in coming to plymouth , may . . they came safe to plymouth , where then had severall meetings with most of us , and the first day of the week following , we had a meeting which was appointed by us at john harris his house , a little out of the town , where both our friends spake in the forenoon , and afternoon , and were approved of by those that heard them , there being no lesse then thirty persons of the company in the afternoon , that came out of novelty to hear them , amongst whom was one george brooks a priest belonging to the nightingale friggot , who is since turned out of the said friggot , for his deboyst conversation , who ( after miles halhead and thomas salthouse had left speaking ) took upon him to speak to the people , highly approving of what our friends had spoken and exhorted the people to perseverance , telling them they must expect to suffer persecution ; he began with this text ( as they call it ) take heed that ye receive not the grace of god in vaine , but he being comprehended and seen in the light , after he had spoken , & ended without any interruption thomas salthouse entred into some discourse with him , telling him , that he had spoken many good words , and faire speeches ; but asked him , whether he lived the life of what he spoke ; and one standing by told him that he had spoken of a trinity , and there was no such scripture ; but he obstinately persisted , affirming that it was the scripture phrase : and after their dispute was ended , thomas spake againe to the people some few words , in which he used this scripture , let him that stole , steal no more ; and this also , he that entreth not by the door , but climbeth up some other way , the same is a thief and a robber : but the other of our friends namely miles halhead spake not one word to the priest , either about the trinity , or any thing else , who yet lyes in prison under colour of disgracefull provoking words he should speak to the same priest george brookes at the same meeting . now we testifie to all to whom these may come , that we have here truly declared , and manifested the very utmost that was spoken , or acted by our said friends , while they were in plymouth that might occasion to say , that either they denyed the trinity , that they gave provoking language to g. brooks , or any other , or that they disturbed any ministers or christians in their assemblies : but we rather judged our selves disturbed in our meeting by such a deboyst person , as the priest was known to some of us to be . the third day of the week following , may . we had another meeting appointed by us at robert caryes house in the town , where the constables came , and by a warrant from the mayor of the town took our said friends miles halhead , and thomas salthouse , and a friend of bristoll , and carryed them to the mayors house , who after a little talk with them , sent them to the prison at the guildhall , where they were kept till the next day , and then were brought forth before the mayor , magistrates , and counsell , and severally examined , and all that were their friends were drawn out from the rest of the multitude , and by the constables turned out of the hall , & not one suffered to be present , at their examination ; after they had examined them about three houres , the friend who spake not to the people was set free , with charge to be gone home , and the other two were again committed to prison , where they kept them near a week , and sent them to exeter goal , where they remained untill the sessions and were afterwards removed to bridewell in thomas parish , without the city , where they now remaine close prisoners . now whether their actions above truly related , have deserved such hard measure , let all who have understanding judge , to whom we shall leave it : but as for our parts , we are fully satisfied that these their sufferings have turned , and yet more abundantly shall turne to the furtherance of the gospel , it being known to most of the inhabitants of plymouth that this here related is the utmost for which they are imprisoned , & how many are ashamed of the injustice of it , we shall not now further mention ; but subscribe our names . nicholas cole . richard smith . ralph fogg . john harris . anthony todde . edward dyer . arthur cotton . robert cary . john martindale . richard lepincote . plymouth , . of the month , or nov. . the testimonies of the captaines of the nightingale friggot , and of the nantwich , and of the constant warwick , concerning the deboyst , filthy , and drunken conversation of george brooks priest , or clerk , with the reasons wherefore he was put on shore , or turned out of the said friggot . i having been formerly desired to relate upon what account that mr. george brooks chaplin of the friggot , and under my command was put on shore ; because he was a busiy body , and disturbed the whole ships company . secondly , being on shore , it was his common practice to abuse the creature in such sort , that he was drunken , voyd of good reason , that he would abuse any one that came in his company by ill language , besides the abuse of himselfe and the good creature , daily complaints coming unto me both aboard , and on shore . therefore knowing him to be a deboyst fellow , and not fit for that imployment , therefore i put him on shore , and i dare own it , who shall ever call me to question , witnesse my hand . robert vessay . mr. brookes being formerly with me in the nightingale i found him to be very idle , and continually drunk , which once made me to put a quarter can about his necke , whereunto i suscribe . john jeffery , captain of the nantwich . the person above mentioned i have seen drunk at shore , in testimony whereof i have set my hand . richard potter , captaine of the constant warwick frigot . a true copy of the warrant by which they were sent to the common goal in exeter , from the prison at plymouth . devon . john page , merchant , maior of the burrough of plymouth in the county aforesaid , and one of his highnesses justices of the peace within the said burrough . to the keeper of his highnesses goal at exon castle , or to his lawfull deputy in that behalfe , greeting . i send you herewithall by the bearer hereof , the bodies of thomas salthouse late of drugglibeck in the county of lancaster husbandman , & miles halhead late of kendal in the county of westmorland , lately apprehended here , as disturbers of the publick peace , and for divers other high misdemeanours against a late proclamation prohibiting the disturbing of ministers , and other christians in their assemblies , and meetings , and against an ordinance of his said highnes the lord protector and his counsel lately made against duells , challenges , and all provocations thereunto , who have refused to give sufficient security for their personall appearance at the next general sessions of the peace to be held for the county of devon , and in the mean time to be of good behaviour against his highnesse the lord protector , and all his liege people . these are therefore in his said highness his name to will , and command you that when the bodies of the said thomas salthouse and miles halhead , shall be unto you brought , you them safely detain , and keep them untill by due course of law they shall be thence delivered , hereof fail not at your perill . given under my hand and seal of plymouth aforesaid , the day of may , in the year of our lord god . john page , mayor . the answer of thomas salthouse , and miles halhead , to the above written warrant . a true copy of a miltimus , by which we thomas salthouse and miles halhead are committed to the goal at exon. by john page mayor of plymouth , with answers in defence of the truth , to the false accusations cast upon us , to make truth odious ; but for sions sake we cannot hold our peace , and suffer lyes to goe for truth . first accusation . disturbers of the publick peace . answer . the accusation is false , for we have not disturbed the publick peace , nor have we fellowship with any such as break the peace , but have freely declared the way that leads to peace , and doe desire that grace and peace may be multiplyed publickly to the ends of the earth , and that all the occasion of strife and envy may be taken away , and that the feet of them that are running on in the broad way that leads to destruction , may be turned into the way of peace . the second accusation . for divers other high misdemeanors against the late proclamation , by his highnesse the lord protector , prohibiting the disturbing of ministers , and other christians in their assemblies and meetings . answer . the breach of this proclamation we charge upon thee , who when we were assembled , and met together in a friends house to wait upon the lord , as hath been the practice of all christians in former ages , and which the law of this nation doth allow . thou sents the constables with a warrant from thee , and fetchest us out of the house from among our friends , and broughts us two before thee , and thou saidst thou hadst not time then to examine us , but sents us to prison . here let all people that love the light , whose eyes are open , judge , whether we or our accusers have broken and transgressed this proclamation , which we , and our friends claim our priviledge in , we being free born men , and friends to the common-wealth , and have disturbed none in their assemblies , nor were we at any publick meeting that thou canst charge upon us , but amongst our own friends , as many can witnesse for us if they may be heard . and here we charge upon thee that which thou callest misdemeanours , for we are clear in the thing , and what is charged upon us here , is false , as many can witnesse that our demeanour hath not been disorderly , nor contrary to the lawes of god , nor the lawes of this nation . and although the word diverse be mentioned , yet none in truth can be laid to our charge , nor proved against us . the third accusation . against an ordinance of his highnesse the lord protector , and his counsell , lately made against duells , challenges , and all provocations thereunto . answer . this accusation against us , is falsly charged upon us ; the act we own , and the magistrates sword of justice we own , which is for the punishment of evill doers , and the incouragement of them that doe well . our weapons are not carnall , but sprituall , nor have we challenged any man , nor done violence to any , nor provoked any , nor used any other language then scripture holdeth forth , as thee and thou to a particular person , whether he be king , priest , or prophet , judge , or justice ; and if any be offended by this , or provoked by it , let him speak , or write the unlawfullnesse of it ; for against fightings , quarrellings , challenging , and provoking one another to wrath by corrupt communications , doe we declare freely , knowing the ground of it ; for where envying and strife is , there is confusion , and every evill worke . the fourth accusation . whereas thou sayest , we have refused to give sureties for our personall appearance at the time and place mentioned . answer . let the light of christ in thy own conscience judge thee , and witnesse against thee , for us , and for our friends that can bear us witnesse that sufficient security was proffered to thee for our appearance ; but to make thy selfe manifest , and thy counsellors , how hast thou written these lyes in the name of the lord protector , and strengthned thy self to accuse the innocent , by using his name ; but to the children of light is thy deceit discovered and laid open . the fifth accusation . and whereas thou sayest , in the mean time to be of the good behaviour . answer . we doe affirm before thee , and all the word , that we are of the good behaviour , and seek to be at peace with all men ; and we know that in the truth you cannot charge us with any evill behaviour , or that we walked disorderly amongst you , wherefore be witnesse against thy self , for out of thine own mouth thou shalt be judged , for that thou hast charged upon us , we are not guilty of , as many can witnesse for us . and under these lyes , and false accusations doe we lye in prison at exon in devon . whose names are thomas salthouse . miles halhead . whom the world scornfully calls quakers . the copy of a warrant aforesaid , with the answer above written to it was given in to the hands of general disbrow , at plymouth , with this following testimony to the truth thereof . we whose names are hereunto subscribed doe testifie , that the severall particulars in this answer made by our friends , are true ( to wit ) that they did not at all disturb the publick peace . nor were they at any other meeting ( but that which was appointed by us ) to disturb any ministers , or other christians , in their assemblies and meetings ; nor are they guilty of any challenges , duells , and provocations thereunto in the least measure , whilst they were amongst us . and as for their refusall to give security , two of us , whose names are robert cary , and arthur cotton , had given security to the mayor , by entring into recognisance for their appearance at the next sessions , the day before their sending to prison , but that the town clerk made it void the next day , pretending it could not be according to law . ralph fogg . arthur cotton . robert cary . richard smith . anthony todde . john harris , the younger . thomas faulkner . nicholas cole . john martindale . richard lepincote . john harris , the elder . the copy of a letter from the mayor of plymouth , to generall disbrow , concerning miles and thomas . plymouth , june , . right honourable ; captain hatsell hath communicated to me what you rote him in reference to those two men thomas salthouse and miles halhead , of whom and of their imprisonment your honour had heard something from some persons of this place , and received a copy of a letter which they sent me . by the inclosed copies of their examinations your honour will see some part of the cause of their confinement , which was on their refusall to give bayle for their appearance the next generall sessions to be held for the county of devon , they being as i conceive , offendors within the late ordinance of his highnesse the lord protector and counsell , made against duells , challenges , and all provocations thereunto , and also his highnesse his late proclamation against quakers , and they still refusing to give bayle for their appearance as aforesaid , went from hence to the goal at exon. on tuesday last . indeed sir , their carriage here was not becoming men , much lesse christians , and besides their contempt of authority , and all the while they were in prison , they never sought god by prayer at any time , nor desired a blessing on any creature they received , or gave thanks for them ; and these very men were about two months past , taken up by collonel coppleston high sheriff of our county , and after dayes restraint were sent away by him for taunton , from tithing to tithing , as by their own examination , and they shew no occasion they have to come to these parts . they are by profession quakers , but husbandmen by their calling ; one of them is a lancashire man , the other of westmorland , and they left their families , relations , and callings about three months since , as they say , and doe net work , nor employ themselves in their callings , to procure themselves a livelihood : but wander up and down in all parts , to vent their wicked opinions , & discover their irregular practises in the breach of peace , & disturbance of good people . indeed sir they hold many sad opinions , destructive to the true religion , and power of godlinesse . i have hereby according to my duty given your honour an account of what passed here in reference to these men ; i could say much more in reference to their examination , and discourse with them , but i fear i have already trespassed upon your honours patience , in the perusal of these lines , and humbly desiring your excuse for giving you this trouble , and doe most thankefully acknowledge your honours continued favours to this place , and for which we stand very much obliged , desiring your honour still te retain such an opinion of us , as those that desire to doe nothing unbecoming christians , and persons that desire the welfare and peace of this common-wealth , and government , and shall ever labour to appear your honours very humble servant . john page , mayor , for my self , and brethren . this is the second time this mayor hath affirmed this abominable lye under his hand and seal , notwithstanding that two sufficient men of the town of plymouth had entred into a recognizance before him for their appearance , which the next morning he denyed to give under his hand as he had promised , and voided the recognizance , the town clerk saying it would not stand in law , and sent them to prison . and here as he twice chargeth them for refusing to doe that which they had done before him , and which he had refused to deliver them under his hand according to his promise , and made voyd as the cause of their imprisonment , so he committed them to prison for refusing to doe that which the town clerk said would not stand in law , and so according to what he affirmed , was contrary thereunto . canst thou who doest such things as these blush ? is it not hereby apparent that cause is sought for , and made where there is none to destroy the innocent ? what the measure wants of filling , with false accusations , that the indictments meaning , and this mayors conceiving shall make up to cause the righteous to suffer . where is that late proclamation intituled against quakers ? there is one against disturbing of christians in their peaceable assemblies , and there is the article of the government , which saith , that all that professe faith in god by jesus christ , shall not be restrained from , but be protected in the profession of the faith , and exercise of their religion , &c. both which thou hast broken , in sending thy officers , and taking them from their peaceable meetings of christians waiting on the lord , by thy warrants . the law forbids the reproaching of any , and all evill speaking , as evill doing , yet this mayor who calls himself a minister of the law , reproacheth the servants of the most high god , who fear before his presence , and tremble at his word , as the holy men of god have done from the beginning on record in the scriptures , with the name of quakers , and intitles the generation of those who seek the face of the lord , with the name of quakers ( which he so reproacheth ) by profession . what difference is there between a calling and profession ? is coming to plymouth in obedience to the movings of the lord , to visite friends , and to speak to them the words of eternall life , to preach the everlasting gospel , and to exhort them to love , and good works , according to the scriptures of truth , no occasion ? shewed they not this as the occasion of their coming thither ? and is it not a lawfull one ? and have they not there many seals of their ministry , who by it are turned from darknesse to light , and from the kingdome of satan unto god ? how can they employ themselves in their callings of husbandry , when kept in prison ? how can they return to their families , relations , and callings , when thus detained , as they were at first hindred in their journey on their lawfull occasions , and are still by thee ? doest thou complain of them for not doing that which by imprisoning of them thou hast made impossible ? did they want a livelihood before they were laid hands on , or do they now , though it 's neer nine months since the time of their commitment by thee ? did they ask any thing of thee , or of any one else ? wast thou or plymouth burdened , or made chargeable by ? or had not the town the advantage of their expence for themselves and horses , and the friend that was with them ? how knowest thou that they want a livelihood ? or hast thou or thy generation administred to them , or to their families , and relations during near nine months of restraint , and six of them in a close imprisonment without a cause , in a strange place miles from their outward habitations , whereby they are kept from imploying themselves to procure a livelihood for themselves , families , and relations ? is riding the strait road from bristoll to plymouth , lying at the best inns , and paying for what they have for themselves and horses , a wandring ? thinkest thou what the law calls wandring , is not known , and how much thou hast broken the law upon them , and what penalties thou art under for so doing , and art thou sure thou shalt never be called to an account , deceive not thy self ? may not a man travell where he will in times of peace , paying for what he hath , and behaving himself peaceable ? what if they had come onely to see the town of plymouth ? make it thy own case , wouldst thou not judge it hard measure for them to doe to thee , as thou hast done to them ? art thou not ashamed of lying , to say they wandred in all parts , when they travelled the direct road ? or callest thou the going about to preach the gospel , a wandring ? did not the apostles and holy men of god doe so , and yet were they not as hardly thought of , and reviled by those of thy generation then , as these are now by thee , and those of the same generation , and as wickedly persecuted , by reason of whose cruelty they wandred in desert , in mountaines , in dens and caves of the earth , being destitute , afflicted , and tormented , of whom the world was not worthy , as these doe by thine , suffer imprisonment and as is afore mentioned . what are their wicked and sad opinions , destructive to the true religion and power of godlinesse , that ( as thou sayest indeed sir ) they hold and have vented in all parts ? what are their irregular practises in the breach of peace and disturbance of good people , that they have discovered ? they are yet to name that are indeed so . but thou hast in this letter , and thy warrant , and thy whole carriage towards these innocent servants of the lord vented , and manifested thy sad opinions , conceivings , and actings , and discovered thy irregular practises ( though thou art in commission to doe justice , and wouldst be esteemed as a magistrate ) in the breach of the peace , and disturbance of good people , to give an account hereof to generall disbrow , thou doest not blush to say to him , it is thy duty , on whose patience and justice , as bearing the sword of god against evill doing , thou mayest well fear thou hast trespassed , and beg excuse for thy trouble , and for thy self and brethren desire by thankfully acknowledging his former favours , to retain such an opinion of you , as those that desire to doe nothing unbecoming christians , and persons that desire the welfare and peace of this common-wealth , and government , when under thy hand , and as aforesaid , against the innocent thou hast so plainly manifested the contrary , and yet for thy self and brethren art not ashamed of him to desire it , who is in justice , you have obliged to visit the more your transgressions upon your heads by reason of the ill use you have made of his former favours , in acting contrary to the welfares and peace of this common-wealth , and government , and so unbecoming christians , in disturbing good people , and oppressing the innocent , and in belying and slandering them when you have so done ; and in considerations of his favours ; and neverthelesse to his face , when you have so offended , to wipe your mouth , as if you had none iniquity , & in confidence to entreat him to understand you as aforesaid . now to that of god in thy conscience , and in the consciences of thy brethren , and of all who shall read this relation , whose carriage was not becoming men , much lesse christians , theirs , or thine , and thy brethren , and who contemn authority , and despise dominion , and discover their irregular practises in the breach of the peace , &c. thou , and thy brethren , who being intrusted as ministers of the law , thus break the law , or those who being innocent have the law thus broken upon them by thy self and brethren . the magistrate of god is a praise to him that doth well , & a terror to the evil doer , rom. . and he that breaketh the righteous law , on him the law is added , as a contemner of authority , and a transgressor , and transgression , especially such as this is , tendeth to the destruction of the nation , and is a reproach to any people . and who hold many sad and wicked opinions destructive to the true religion and power of godlinesse ; they are thee , who doest thus act and write , and art not come so much as to the bridling of thy tongue , and so all thy religion is vain . and if thou wilt not yet take shame , behold these lyes and false accusations in this one letter of thine , to murder the innocent , set in order before thee . on their refusall to give bayle for their appearance the next generall sessions to be held for the county of devon . one — and they still refusing to give bayle for their appearance as aforesaid , two — indeed sir , their carriage here was not becoming men , much lesse christians , three — and besides their contempt of authority , foure — all the while they were in prison , they never sought god by prayer at any time , five — nor desired a blessing on any creature they received , six — nor gave thanks for them , seaven — and they shew no occasion to come to these parts , eight — but wander up and down in all parts , nine — to vent their wicked opinions , ten — and discover their irregular practices in the breach of the peace , and disturbance of good people , eleven — indeed sir they hold and vent many sad opinions destructive to the true religion , and power of godlinesse , twelve — and let these convince thee , and give judgement against thee , that thy tongue is bent like a bow for lyes , and art not valiant for the truth upon earth , but proceedest from evill to evill , and knowest not the lord : and all lyars shall have their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death , rev. . and the devil is the accuser of the brethren , rev. . . and false accusers are they who make the dayes perillous , tim. . . and the lord shall cut off all flattering lips , psal. . . and he that respecteth persons committeth sin , and is convinced of the law as a transgressour , james . . and the wages of sin is death , rom. . . and woe unto them that call good evill , and evill good , and put darknesse for light , and light for darknes , isa. . and blaspheme that worthy name by which the children of light are called , james . . and of these things are thy letter made up , and these things are found on thee , and the judgement cannot be avoyded , for the lord is righteous , and not one jot or tittle of his word shall passe away , and thy soule is precious . therefore turn within , and consider thy condition , and repent whilst thou hast time , before thou goest into the pit , and it be sealed on thee , out of which there can be no redemption . the answer of miles halhead , & thomas salthouse , to the accusations in the aforesaid letter . john page mayor of plymouth . we have seen a copy of a letter , which we hear you sent to major general disbrow , in reference to us , thomas salthouse , & miles halhead , wherein thou hast manifested thy self to the children of light to be of the same generation , by thy flattering of him in feigned humility , and thy rayling accusations against us , we say , to be of the spirit of tertullus , acts . who accused and informed the governour against the apopostle paul , to be a pestilent fellow , &c. and so thou hast laid open thy ignorance , in imprisoning ; us , because thou conceivest we are offendors , which indeed is nothing but thy conceiving ; and thou sayest , the cause of our confinement is because we refused to give bayle to answer at the sessions . here be witnesse against thy self , and for us , that we refused not to give bayle , but had sufficient men , robert cary , and arthur cotton , which thou wast content to take , and we were willing to appear upon thine own conditions , that if we were any way disabled to come , either by sicknesse , or any other restraint , we being to goe out of the county , thou promised us , that a certificate from the next justice of the peace , where we were so disabled , should set our recognizance void , and clear us , and our friends were willing to ingage for us . and the next morning when we came to receive it under thy hand , according to thy promise , thou there refusedst to give it , and the town clerk said it would not stand in law , which is like to thy letter thou sentest us to exon prison , and so because thou conceivest we are offendors , doe we suffer ; but thou makest thy conceiving a law , to imprison us by . and further thou hast manifested thy enmity , and persecuting spirit in what thou witnessest falsly against us , that all the while we were in prison , we neither sought god by prayer , as thou sayest , nor desired a blessing of god on any creature that we received , nor gave thanks for them . here let thy mouth be stopped , and for shame proceed no further in thy false accusations , to render us , and the truth odious ; for besides the witnesse of god which is true , and greater then the witnesse of man , many in plymouth can witnesse against thee in this thing , that joyned with us in spirit , being moved severall times in prison , and out of prison , to goe to prayers , and to give thanks for the blessing of god that we received . and further thou sayest , we wander up and down in all parts , to vent our wicked opinions , to the disturbance of good people . here thou hast vented forth thy malice , out of the spirit of bitternesse against us , to make us appear odious to good people , if they will lend an ear to thee , for wicked opinions we doe deny . and we have not disturbed any good people , neither have we wandred in all parts , as thou sayest , but came the straight road from bristoll to plymouth , and were chargeable to none in our journey , but lay at the best inns where we came , and paid for what we had need of , for both our horse , and our selves . and again thou sayest , indeed sir they hold many sad opinions , destructive to true religion , and power of godlinesse . we say indeed , if thou hadst the true religion , thou would have power over thy tongue , but thou hast manifested thy religion to be in vain , and thy ignorance both of the true power , and also of the form of godlinesse , for godlinesse is a mystery , and he that hath the form , and not the power , from such we turn away ; and with such as have the power and life of what they professe , have we fellowship in the light , which hath no fellowship with darknesse , neither with such as walk disorderly , and contrary to the light of christ , who bringeth peace on earth , and good-will towards man . and we never contemned thy authority as a magistrate , neither doe we slight the generall disbrow , whom thou desirest to have a good opinion of thee , who hast made thy conceivings , and thy will a law , to imprison us by , though we have transgressed no law , but to the children of light thou art discovered , and thy deceit laid open . he that hath understanding let him read . and this we have written to thee , in reference to that thou writest to general disbrow , for thy self , and thy brethren , not rendring to thee , nor thy brethren , rayling for rayling , but in the spirit of love , and meeknes , we exhort you all to repent , and fear to offend the lord , and the least of them who believe in his name , lest he come in a day when you are not aware , and cut you off in a day when you are not aware , and cut you off , and you be numbred amongst the transgressors , and have your portion amongst them which make war with the lamb , and the saints and servants of the most high god . this is the day of your visitation , while you have time prize it . from us who are friends to your soules . thomas salthouse , miles halhead , prisoners in exon gaol . a copy of an indictment exhibited against , and read to them at the sessions . the jurors for his highnesse the lord protector of the common-wealth of england , scotland , and ireland , and the dominions thereunto belonging , upon their oaths doe present , that whereas by an ordinance of his highnesse the lord protector , and his counsell , bearing date the day of june , in the year of our lord , one thousand six hundred fifty foure , for preventing of duells , and all occasions of challenges and quarrells , and using any disgracefull provoking words , or gestures tending to that effect , it was ordered , that no persons whatsoever should from and after the publishing of the said ordinance , use any provoking words , or gestures , whereby quarrells or challenges may arise , as by the said ordinance may more at large appear . neverthelesse thomas salthouse late of druggly beck in the county of lancaster , husbandman , and miles halhead of kendall in the county of westmorland , husbandman , not fearing nor regarding the said ordinance , and the penalty therein contained , after the publishing of the said ordinance , to wit , the twentieth day of may , in the year of our lord , one thousand six hundred fifty and five , at plymouth in the county aforesaid , in the presence and hearing of divers honest persons of the common-wealth of england there then being , did use divers disgracefull provoking words , and gestures , to george brooks , clerk in the nightingale friggot , he being then opening and declaring unto the said persons , a certain place of scripture wherein the said george spake something of the holy trinity , to wit , thou , the said george brooks meaning , lyest in saying there were three persons in the trinity , we doe deny , there is no such thing , but thou art a deluding spirit come to draw away the hearts of the people from god . and farther they the said thomas salthouse , and miles halhead did further speak to the people then present , that they should not hearken to the said george brooks , for that he was a thief , and was come with a lye in his mouth , and had stollen what he had from others , and had it in his hand , poynting to the bible which was then in the said george brooks his hand open . and further did say it was a lye which the said george brooks had brought , and other harmes to the said george brooks then , and there did , contrary to the form of the said ordinance , against the peace publick . thomas salthouse , and miles halheads answer to this indictment . being that we were not permitted to speak for our selves , when this indictment or bill was read to us in the open court at the generall sessions , holden at the castle of exon. upon the day of the fifth month , but by the justices there in commission , the goaler was commanded to to take us away . so to make our defence for the truths sake , we are constrained to write something in answer to the substance of it : the sum of it is , to make us offendors in an act made against duells and challenges , and the like , by the lord protector and his councell ; and you say , we not fearing or regarding the said act , and the penalty therein contained , did use divers disgracefull and provoking words to george brooks clerk of the nightingale frigot . to which we answer . the fear of the lord which is the beginning of wisedome , hath taught us to regard and honour all men in the lord , and that act we own , which is made against quarrelling , and fighting , and cursed speaking , which is the fruit of the flesh , and that the magistrates bear not the sword in vain , but adds the penalty to the transgression of it , and not to add the law where there is no transgression proved . and we doe declare , and many can witnesse , that unlesse you call the scripture disgracefull words , there was none spoken to him by us . and we doe affirm , that one of us did not speak one word to him , and yet we are both accused and imprisoned , and if this be the penalty of the act , that if one man offend , two must suffer , let all that know the law of england , with moderation , judge ? and whether discoursing of the scripture be a transgression of that , yea or nay ? for what was spoken , many of our friends of plymouth , which you confesse to be honest people ▪ that are friends to the common-wealth of england , did hear us , you say . yet might they not be permitted to hear us examined before the mayor and magistrates of plymouth , upon the day of the third month , in the common hall in the presence of neer one hundred people ; and all our friends that heard the discourse , and know the truth of it , were put forth of the hall , and the door kept fast . and we desired , that if either man or woman had any thing to lay to our charge , they might then speak . but we never had our accusars brought before us , that we might see them , or hear them speak . and for that george brooks spake concerning the three persons of the trinity , these words was spoken by one of us , i know no such scripture that speaks of the three persons in the trinity ; but the three that the scripture speaks of , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , and these three are one . and the baptism by one spirit , into one body , and the father , the word , and the spirit , the scripture declares to be one ; and he that hath the son , hath the father also . and this we doe own , he that can receive it , let him . and no such word was spoken by us , as calling him a deluding spirit , and therefore the accusation is false : neither did we say that he came to draw away the hearts of the people from god , as you say ; for he stood up , and vindicated what we had declared , to be truth , and that of god in his conscience will witnesse against you in this thing . and in that you say , we spake to the people not to hearken to him , and that he was a thief , and pointed to the bible which was then in his hand , and other harms to the said george brooks , against the peace publick . here under a cloak of maliciousnesse have you made lyes your refuge , but with the light you are comprehended , and your works of darknesse brought to it , and reproved , for we did neither call him thief , nor say he had stollen the bible that was in his hand , which you say , we pointed at . and you speak of other harms against george brooks , and say , we meaned that he lyed . and here you make use of meanings , as if here were not false accusations sufficient to drive on your design of persecution ; you might have mentioned those other harms you speak of , if you knew of any ; but it 's like you have mentioned the worst you heard of , which we declare to be false , as many can witnesse that heard the discourse , that are inhabitors of plymouth , and friends to the peace of englands common-wealth . so all yee that take your oaths , and give informations , consider what you doe , for because of oaths the land mourns , and the lord god will come near to judgement , and will be a swift witnesse against the lyar , and the false swearer , that are out of the doctrine of christ who saith , swear not at all , but in all your communications , let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , for whatsoever is more , is evill . and every one of you in particular , take heed to the light of christ in your consciences , and there is your teacher , loving it , that will keep you from accusing any man falsly , and lead you out of all controversie and strife , up to jesus christ who is the end of the law for righteousnesse , to every one that believeth on him , who brings peace on earth , and good will towards men , who is the prince of peace , of whose government there shall be no end , who is god over all blessed for evermore . this we have written in answer to the bill of indictment against us thomas salthouse and miles halhead , prisoners for the truths sake in bridewell in thomas parish neer exeter , in devonshire . record of the sentence given against them at sessions . devon . a calender of the prisoners tryed and delivered at the generall sessions of the peace publick holden at the castle of exon. july . . thomas salthouse and miles halhead , for provoking words against george brooks , clerk , who refused to be tryed by the countrey , fined l. a piece , and committed to bridewell , till payment , and finding sureties for the good behaviour . the answer of miles and thomas thereunto . to you justices by whom we are committed , we answer as we did when we were before you , and doe affirm that one of us spake not a word unto him george brooks , and to satisfie all such as may hear this thing , under which we suffer as if we were thieves , or murtherers ; we shall lay open to the view of all people , the ground of the discourse . we being met together at a friends house neer plymouth , to wait upon the lord , there being more people then the house would contein , we went into a garden , and after we had spoken some words of exhortation to the people and had declared the truth of the experience we had found manifested in us , of the free grace of god that brings salvation , provoking them to love , and to good works , according to the scriptures of the prophets and apostles , as the spirit gave us utterance at that time . then george brooks unknown unto us , stood up and spake to the people , with the words of paul to the corinthians , and said , take heed that yee receive not the grace of god in vain , with many words in vindication of what we had spoken , witnessing that it was the eternall truth which we had spoken . so after all was ended , some began to enter into some discourse with him , and one of us asked him whether he could witnesse what he had spoken to be from the life and power of it saying , thou hast uttered many scriptures and good words , but it 's he that hath the witnesse in himself , that sets to his seal ; that god is true . then directing my speech to all that were there , by way of exhortation . i spake the words of paul to the ephesians , let him that stole steal no more , with many other words of truth and sobernesse , which was not to any one in particular . if these be provoking words , and worthy of such bonds as we suffer , let all men that have moderation bear witnesse . and in that you say , we refuse to be tryed by the country . oh! how dare you give such things under your hands , when you your selves , and all people that were in the court , can bear us witness , that we did not refuse to be tryed , but did appeale to the highest power that was there , unto whom many in the country came for justice , and from whom we expected righteous judgement ; for you know we said , we were willing to be tryed by the bench , to whom all the court was in subjection , to whose power we were and are subject to , for conscience sake , and did not resist your power ; but for the ▪ ve pounds that is demanded of us , we answer , we owe nothing to any man but to love one another , therefore we deny to pay so much money for naught ; but if any man will come to us and say that we have wronged him , we will make him satisfaction , and pay him the utmost farthing . and as for sureties for the good behaviour , they that walk in the light of christ , who is the surety of a better covenant then mans covenant , whom we witnesse , teaching us to deny the customes , and fashions of the world , and all ungodlinesse and worldly lusts , and to doe to all men as we would they should doe unt● us . and we are tyed to the good behaviour by the righteous law of god , and dare not lye , nor swear , nor be drunk , nor use any deceit , pollicy , shifts , or double dealing , nor respect mens persons for the liberty of the outward man , or any other advantage , to that in all your consciences doe we appeale , whether we be wo thy of such bonds as these , where none of our friends nor acquaintance must come at us , or speak with us , but they must be imprisoned : is the law of england so exact against us , such as have been alwayes faithfull in that which hath been manifested , and in the states service , and desires nothing else but to worship god in spirit and truth , according to what is manifested and witnessed in the light of jesus christ , who is the way to the father , that when we were locked up in close prison , the souldiers kept john gannyclife who is a constable , in their custody , for coming to speak with us , and another person who did spy in at a hole of the door where we were ; this they did by an order from captain joyce , who hath given it under his hand to take into their custody all such as they suspected to be of us whom they called quakers . but this they doe that the scripture may be fulfilled , which jesus christ spake to his disciples , they shall hale you before magistrates , and rulers , who shall cast some of you into prison , and the time shall come if they kill you , they shall think they doe god good service . but here is our confidence in his promise , that he that endures to the end shall be saved ; and if we suffer with him , we shall also reigne with him ; for whose sake we are made willing by his eternall power to suffer the losse of all things , that we may receive an inheritance with them that are sanctified , and witnesse against all deceit , and abomination , to the laying down of our lives , if it be required , who are prisoners for the testimony of jesus in thomas parish neer exon , in bridewell . thomas salthouse . miles halhead . a copy of their letter sent the mayor of plymouth , after their first apprehension . friend , seing the lord god of power , who is lord of heaven and earth , hath entrusted thee with the power of a magistrate , to bear the sword of justice , which is for the punishment of evil doers and the encouragement of those that doe well , and to rule for him who brings peace on earth , and hath good will towards men , even jesus christ , the mediator of the new covenant ; who is the end of the law for righteousnesse to every one that believeth ; who was supposed to be the son of joseph , but was the son of god ; and he that hath the son , hath life ; and he that hath not the son , hath not life ; and we know that the son of god is come , and hath given us an understanding , to know him who is true ; and he that hath the son , hath the father also ; and he that hath the witnesse in himself , hath set to his seale that god is true ; he that hath understanding , let him read ; he that loveth not , knoweth not god , for god is love ; and if any man say , i love god , and hate his brother , he is a lyar , for his commandement is love ; and he that rules in love , rules with authority , and not as the scribes and pharisees . the law of god is perfect , and endureth for ever ; he is our judge , and law-giver , before whom all must appear , to give an accompt for all the deeds done in the body , when every man shall receive according to his works . now friend , to thee for justice doe we call , that the truth may be freed from scandalls , and false reports , and the oppressed set free , which is pure religion ; that we may have that favour at thy hands , which the law doth afford , to bring our accusers to us , that have any thing to lay to our charge worthy of bonds , that things may be tryed by the light , and actions weighed in the ballance of equity ; that truth may spring up out of the earth , and righteousnesse may run down as a mighty stream , and peace and justice may kisse each other ; for know assuredly , although we are counted deceivers , yet are we true ; and nothing doe we desire from thee , as thou art a magistrate , but to have the truth cleared by the light , and truth set at liberty ; and if there be any that knoweth the onely true god , and jesus christ whom he hath sent , and hath eternall life abiding in him ; we desire to be tryed by him , even him that is guided by the spirit of god , and as many as are led by the spirit of god , are the sons of god . and whereas some ignorant men say , that we deny the trinity , and the god-head , which is false ; for god is a spirit , and as many as are led by the spirit , are the sons of god , and the father son and spirit are one ; and this we witnesse according to the scriptures , and this god is but one , in whom all things live , move , and have their being , who is above all , and in all , and through all , god blessed for ever . and for the word trinity , there is no such scripture as speaks of a trinity ; so in tendernesse of conscience , and love to the spirit of truth , which gave forth the scriptures , we dare not wrest them nor speak any other language , nor add nor diminish from them . so friend , to the light of jesus christ in thine own conscience , and the measure of the spirit of truth , doe we exhort thee to take heed that the spirituall man judge all things in righteteousnesse and truth . so we remain prisoners of the lord , not as evill doers , our conscience bearing us witnesse in the presence of the lord in whom is everlasting strength , who are friends of the truth , and of the common-wealth of england . known to the world by the names of thomas salthouse . miles halhead . for the hands of john page mayor of plymouth . the copy of another letter to the mayor of plymouth , concerning swearing . john page mayor of plymouth ; forasmuch as it hath pleased thee to cast us into prison , and hast examined us , and hast found no breach of any law , by which thou can'st lawfully punish us ; but under a pretence hath tendred us an oath to swear against the supremacy and purgatory . we doe in the presence of the lord god of heaven and earth , deny the pope , and all things therein mentioned , with as much detestation as thou thy self , or any in the world can , or doth ; our consciences also bearing us witnesse , in the presence of our god , who is able to deliver us , although we are cast into a prison ; nay , if we be cast into a den of lyons , and a fiery furnace , with the three children , as you may read in daniel , that would not fall down to worship the image , neither will we disobey the command of jesus christ , who saith , swear not at all ; and the apostle james saith , above all things , my brethren , swear not , neither by heaven , nor by earth , nor by any other oath , but let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , lest you fall into condemnation . and all that doth the will of god , shall know of the doctrine of christ ; and whosoever transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrine of christ , hath not god . he that abideth in the doctrine of christ , hath both the father , and the son . if any come unto you , and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house , nor bid him god speed ; and this we doe affirm , that swearing is out of the doctrine of christ , although you may alledge many scriptures for swearing , as in the first covenant ; and that an oath among men for confirmation , is to them an end of all strife ; but he that is made the surety of a better covenant , who hath put an end to all strife , where it is witnessed , saith , swear not at all ; although that you may alledge that the angels swore , yet know this , that when he bringeth his first begotten into the world , he saith , let the angels of god worship him : so we lay it upon thee to witnesse for us , or against us , whether yea or nay is not to be preferred before swearing , by all those who professe religion , seeing that jesus christ hath commanded not to swear at all ; and he saith , if yee love me , keep my commandements ; and if we suffer imprisonment for keeping the commandements of christ , it is not grievous to us ; for we refuse not to swear , for any guiltinesse that is in us , or that can be charged upon us , for we are against all false wayes , false worships , false lawes , but we deny swearing , because jesus christ hath commanded us , not to swear at all . so if we be kept in prison , let it never be said by you , that it is for any thing , but because we dare not swear , knowing , that to disobey the commandements of christ , is the way of cain , who was driven out from the presence of god , and became a fugitive , and a vagabond ; and this some of you would charge upon us , to be vagabonds , who in tendernesse of conscience , and in the obedience to the light of jesus christ , and in love to him , our lives are not dear to us , to lay down , if it be required , for the confession of him before men , and the keeping of his commandements ; for to this end are we called ; and our rejoycing is in this , that in simplicity , and godly sincerity , our conversations hath been , and is honest , as many can witnesse for us against those , who in their wisedome goe about to entrap and ensnare the innocent : and this we write , not to justifie our selves but for the sake of the simple ones , who have heard many lyes and false reports of us ; of this doe we put thee in mind , not that thou art ignorant that all the glory and honour belongeth to the lord god , who hath said , he will not give his glory unto another ; and vengeance is mine , and i will repay it , saith the lord , who will ease himself of all his adversaries , and recompence tribulation to them that trouble , afflict , or offend one of the least that believe in his name . so in love to thee , and all people , for the eternall good of all , doe we heartily wish , that grace and peace may be multiplied ; so we rest in the will of our father , to doe or to suffer , that he may be glorified by us , to whom all glory belongeth for evermore ; and pray , that the sin of persecution may not be committed by thee , nor any that professe to be the friends of englands , whose names are known to be thomas salthouse . miles halhead . for the hands of john page , mayor of plymouth . hear ye this o priests , and hearken ye house of israel ; and give ye eare o house of the king , for judgement is towards you , because you have been as a snare on mizpah , and a net spread upon tabor : and ye revolters are profound to make slaughter ; though i have been a rebuker of them all . hear i pray you o heads of jacob ; and yee princes of the house of israel ; is it not for you to know judgement ? shalt thou reigne , because thou closest thy selfe in cedar ? did not their father , eate , and drinke , and doe judgement , and justice , and then it was well with him ? he judged the cause of the poor and needy ; then it a as well with him , was not this ; know me saith the lord . and hear yee rulers , who hate the good , and love the evill , who pluck the skin from off the people of the lord , and their flesh from off their bones ; yea who abhor judgement , and pervert all equity ; who turne judgement into worme wood , and leave off righteousnesse in the earth ; who decree unrighteous decrees , and write grievousnesse which ye have prescribed : woe unto you ; for judgement is turned away backward , and justice standeth afar off , for truth is fallen in the street , and equity cannot enter ; yea truth faileth , and he that departeth from evill , maketh himselfe a prey : a man is made an offender for a word ; a snare is laid for him that reproveth in the gate ; the just is afflicted , and turned aside , for a thing of nought , and the poor in the gate from their right : the righteousnesse of the righteous , is taken from him ; he that rebuketh in the gate , is hated ; he that speaketh uprightly is abhorred ; iniquities are conceived , are travelled withall ; are searched out ; a diligent search is accomplished , the inward thought , and the heart is deep , they dig as low as hell , the pit is made into which to cast and destroy the innocent , the workers of iniquity make insurrections , they whet their tongue like a sword , they bend their bowes , and make their arrowes keene , and ready on string , and shoot at the perfect , at the upright and fear not ; there are who incourage themselves in an evill matter , that commune of laying snares privily , that lye in waite in the lurking places of the villages , in the secret places , as he that setteth snares to murther the innocent , that set a trap that catch men ; as a cage is full of birds , so are their houses full of deceit : therefore , are they become great , and wax in rich , they are waxen fat , and shine ; yea , the deeds of the wicked are over passed : the rod hath blossomed , pride hath budded , violence is risen up into a rod of wickednesse , sion is built up with blood , and jerusalem with iniquity ; the stranger is vexed , and oppressed ( which the lord hath commanded shall not be , but be beloved as a mans selfe , for the lord loveth the stranger ) and turned aside from his right , and dealt wrongfully withall , his judgement is perverted , and upon him is violence , and cruelty , exercised : the people of the lord are sould for nought , and there are none that inquire after their blood , they are eaten up as one would eate breath ; they whom the lord hath smitten are persecuted , & the spoyled is not delivered out of the hand of the oppressour : the lord is not feared ; this people are broken in pieces , and his heritage afflicted : yet they that doe these things , say in their hearts , the lord shall not see , neither shall the god of jacob regard it ; god hath for gotten , he hideth his face ; he will never see it ; god is contemned ; they say , he will not require it ; yea every one in the darke , in the chambers of his imagery , saith the lord seeth us not ; the lord hath forsaken the earth ; how doth god know , is there knowledge in the most high ? thou hast seen it o lord , for thou beholdest mischiefe , and spight , to requite it with thy own hand ; the poor committeth himselfe unto thee ; thou art the helper of the fatherlesse . ) vnderstand ye bruitish among the people ; and ye fools , when will ye be wise ? he that planteth the eare , shall not he hear ? he that formed the eye , shall he not see ? he that chastiseth the heathen , shall not he correct ? he that teacheth man knowledge , shall not he know ? surely , the lord seeth it , and it displeaseth him that there is no judgement , and he sees that there is no man , and wonders that there is no intercessor ; therefore his arme is bringing salvation unto him , and his righteousnesse it sustaineth him ; for he is putting on righteousnesse as a breast plate , and a helmet of salvation upon his head , and he is putting on the garment of vengeance for a cloathing , and is clading with zeal as with a cloak ; he will awake as one out of sleep , and go forth as a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine ; he will stir up jealousie like a man of war ; he will cry , yea roare ; he shall prevaile against his enemies ; he hath a long time holden his peace , and he hath been still , and refrained himselfe ; he will cry like a travelling woman ; he will devoure and destroy all at once ; he he will make wast mountains , and hills , and dry up all their herbs ; he will make the rivers islands ; and he will dry up the pools , and according to their deeds , accordingly , will he repay , fury , to his adversaries , recompence to his enemies . for these things , shall i not visite saith the lord , shall not my soule be avenged on such a generation as this ? shall not god avenge the sufferings , the blood of his elect , who cry night and day unto him , how long o lord holy and true dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth ? though he bear long with them : i tell you , he will avenge them speedily . and hath he said it , and shall he not doe it ? hath he spoken it , and shall it not come to passe ? he hath avenged their blood , from the dayes of righteous abel , to the times of this generation , and shall he not avenge it on this generation ? hath this generation witnessed this word of the lord to be true above many generations before whose eyes ; and by whose hands the righteous god hath executed his dreadfull judgements on the enemies of his elect ; and shall this generation who have exceeded what hath been done by their fathers go unpunished ? hath he despised the image of the king , and princes , and nobles , and the great ones , and many of the people of these nations , and their pomp and glory , and powred forth their blood as water on the earth , and made them a fearfull desolation , in the cause of his people , and of justice , and equity , and shall those whom he hath made the rod of his anger , and the staffe of his indignation , upon these ; doing the same things , for which he judged , and cast them out , escape ? hath all this blood been shed , that unrighteousnesse may reigne , and oppresssion ? hath not god spared the glory , and beauty , and excellency of these nations , and the goodlinesse of them , but in the iniquities that they have committed , and in the sins wherewithall they have sinned , hath cut them off , and made them the dreadfull examples of his vengeance , to make way for others to rise up , and to commit greater abominations ? was persecution of tender consciences unjust in the bishops , and is it righteous now in them , who suffered by the bishops , for the tendernesse of their consciences , and shed so much blood for a secure provision therein , and put it to this issue , by the sword either they and theirs not to be or not to be without it ; to outstrip the bishops ; yea the latter ages , in a cruell and barbarous persecution of their brethren , because of the tenderness of their consciences ? was the infringement of liberty , the endeavouring to subvert the fundamentall lawes of the nation ; and the violation of right ; unrighteous in the king , and strafford , and canterbury , and that generation ; and judged tyrannicall , and trayterous , and justice executed upon them , for so doing , and the kings family rooted up , and thousands of families destroyed , and the three nations made fields of blood , and hazarded in many years fierce and cruell wars to bring it to passe , and is it just now in inferiour ministers , who are in commission , and sworn to execute the law , to preserve liberty , and to defend right , as saith also the instrument of government ; to exceed them all in the violation of law , and the destruction of right , and liberty , as if so be the cause and the justice of the wars were to destroy one generation , for another to exercise the same , and far greater violences and oppressions , upon those who were instrumentall in the destruction of the other , when lost their liberties , or by what law , contract , or conquest ? have they lost them in suffering and fighting for them , and having had to doe in obtaining the victory , or in fearing the lord , and being peaceable in the land , and living in the principle that leads out of transgression , and not resisting evill with evill , but bearing all things , and suffering all things , both from those who have been friends and enemies , though contrary to law and liberty , and common humanity , and the righteous ends of the wars are their sufferings ; leaving vengeance to the lord , whose it is , and who will repay it ; and laying their bodies as the ground , and as the street to them that say bow down thy body , that we may goe over ? and wherein consists the vertue , merit , or prerogative of the other by which they may in equity or right claim such a priviledge ? is law , and justice , and liberty , and right changed in the ending of the wars , for them into peace , that those must be denyed either , and the contrary inflicted on them , in such a manner of cruelty , that the presidents of former times , have not parallel'd , whose lives in the field , and whose all hath been so often engaged , for the effecting thereof ? is this generation delivered to commit greater abominations and cruelties , then those who for these things sake , and by their hand have been so lately destroyed ? is the weight of the blood of these nations a small matter ? and all the garments rolled in blood , the mangled and dead carkasses of so many thousands , the plundering , burnings , devastations , ruines of multitudes , the barbarous and the unheard of cruelties and murthers executed especially in ireland , the cryes of the great companies of fatherlesse and widowes , for liberties and justice , a pleasant sight ? that men so lightly gird it to their loynes , and goe over their graves , in acting higher wickednesses then what were the causes of those miserable destructions ? god is not unrighteous , so severely to punish offences in some , and to let others goe free , who transgresse in the same , and act more wickedly . shall not the judge of the whole earth doe right ? god is true , and every man a lyar ; and at his hands every man shall receive according to their deeds . if he spared not the angels that sinned , but cast them down to hell , and delivered them into chaines of darknesse , to be reserved unto judgement : nor the old world , bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly ; nor sodome and gomorah , but turned their cities into ashes , and condemned them with an overthrow , making them ensamples to them that afterwards should live ungodly ; nor the kingdomes of israel and judah , in whom the iniquities and mighty sins afore-mentioned were found , but suffered for those things sake ; sion to be plowed as a field , and jerusalem to become heaps , and the mountain of the house as the higher places of the forrest , and removed them both out of his sight ; and upon whom the wrath is come to the uttermost . and if he spared not those in these three nations , upon whom some of these things were found , but hath spread them before this generation , as the remarkable and sad examples of his vengeance & justice , who renders to every one according to his works ; then what can they expect , who having all these examples before their eyes , and having bin the instruments of his indignation , upon those of their age , doe not only the same things , but over-passe their deeds in afflicting the just , and persecuting the witnesses of the living god , the god of their mercies , who hath wrought all their wonderfull deliverances , whom of their brethren he hath raised up and sent amongst them to turn their feet out of the wayes of destruction , into the path of peace , and to direct them to that , which if hearkned unto , will guide them out of all deceipts and subtilties , and power of darknes , up to the kingdom of his son , whose throne is for ever and ever , and the scepter of whose kingdome is a righteous scepter , which is the substance of what the late wars were a figure , & the principle from whence alone justice shall spring up from the earth , & righteousnes shall slow down from heaven ; who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron , and break them in pieces as a potters vessel , whose kingdome is begun to be set up , which shall never have an end . i say , what remaineth for such , but a fearfull expectation of the revelation of the righteous judgements of god , which shall destroy the adversary , and bring upon themselves swift destruction , beyond the measure of those that have gone before them , except they repent . for , god is not mocked , as men sow , so shall they reap , and those that follow their pernicious wayes , their judgment lingreth not nor doth their damnation slumber ; the testimony of his elect in sufferings is finishing , & the measure of the iniquity of their persecutors is filling up apace , and the judge standeth at the door , & judgement hastneth , and vengeance is preparing her self , and destruction is making ready , and woe unto you , ye potsheards of the earth , who strive with your maker . what will ye doe in the day of visitation , and in the desolation that cometh from far ? to whom will ye flee for help , and where will you leave your glory ? can your hearts endure , & your hands be strong , in the days when the lord shall deal with you . be wise therefore , o yee kings , be instructed o yee judges of the earth ; serve the lord with fear , and rejoyce with trembling . touch not his anointed , and doe his prophets no harm . kiss the son lest he be angry , and yee parish from the mid way ; when his wrath is kindled but a little ( and it is kindling ) blessed are all they that trust in him . but sing o heavens , and be joyfull o earth , and break forth into singing o mountaines , for god hath comforted his people , and will have mercy on his afflicted . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- g : hughes . government . art. . acts . . ephes. . . john . . jer. . . a john . . b joh. . , . c john . d john . . e luke . . f psal. . . mat. . , g rev. . . h john . . i heb. . . k rom. . . l heb. . . m heb. . . n heb. . . . . o deut. . . acts . , . . . p mat. . . q mat. . . r luke . . ſ rom. . , , . t rev. . . u acts . . . . tim . . rom. . . x john . . mat. , , , , . z james . , a prov. . . b psal. . . c phil . , . d rom. . . a close imprisonment is directly contrary to the : h : . cap : . which provideth that prisons shall be in the most eminent and populous townes where is most resort of people , that the prisoner may be the oftner visited , and relieved . and though the statute of westminster . provides for a safe imprisonment , yet for a close imprisonment there is neither that nor any other law : and above all things doth the law value the liberty of a man . loe hear what a filthy worker of iniquity this priest is , for denying of whose spirit before the people these long and cruell sufferings are inflicted on the innocent ? what a defiler of the flesh is this in whose behalfe these men make war against the lamb ? is not this priest who not onely prophecies of , but fills himselfe with wine and strong drink , a fit prophet for these people ? what think you ? had they a spirit of discerning who comprehended this priest , and his root and principle and denying his spirit before the people , though he spake so high in the praise of what they had said ? would not these men , plead barabas his part against jesus , were he on the earth ? devon . a gagg for the quakers, with an answer to mr. denn's quaker no papist. smith, thomas, or - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing s ba thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a gagg for the quakers, with an answer to mr. denn's quaker no papist. smith, thomas, or - . [ ] p. printed by j.c. and are sold neer the north door of s. pauls church., london, : mdclix. [ ] attributed to thomas smith. signatures: pi² a-b⁴. annotation on thomason copy: "nou: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng denne, henry, or - ? -- quaker no papist. society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a gagg for the quakers,: with an answer to mr. denn's quaker no papist. smith, thomas c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a gagg for the quakers , with an answer to mr. denn's quaker no papist . london , printed by j. c. and are sold neer the north-door of s. pauls church . mdclix . to the. reader . reader , little did any man think when the dispute between the quakers and mr. s. began at cambridge , that it would suddenly come to this question ( between papists and protestants ) vvhether there be any such thing in the world as a protestant clergy , and consequently whether any true church , or faith , or sacraments be to be had out of the church of rome . i dare say that those who heard the publick dispute at cambridge , did as little foresee this , as the reverend author of schism dispatcht did think that the controversie between him and s. vv. ( with those other romanists who have writ against him , about infallibility and schism ) would end in this debate , vvhether we may give as much credit in matter of fact to of the ancient fathers of the greek and latin church , as to country yeomen on a jury . the protestant affirming this , the papist denying it . but so it is ; and so it appears by these two following discourses . which if you have patience to read , you will find that mr. den . ( pretending to defend the quaker ) saith not one word in defense of any sect , but only the down-right open papist ; and that he useth the very same arguments , and the same words against protestants in general ; as the papists do in their daily-printed books . but if your leisure will not permit you to read the whole be pleased ( for a tast ) to peruse the . . and th . § of the letter to mr den . and the th . and th . pages of the queries . farewell and beware of wolves in sheeps-clothing . a memorable advertisement from dorsetshire . in september last there was a strange discovery made of divers witches in and neer the town of sherburne in dorsetshire , there being neer . of them at one meeting , most of them quakers and anabaptists . three men and two women formerly quakers , committed to dorchester goale where they now are prisoners , have confessed upon their examination and since their commitment to sundry persons of quality who have visited them , . that when the devill first appeared to , and tempted them to become witches ; he first of all perswaded them ; to renounce their baptisme and no wonder , because in it they renounced the divel and all his works , with all the sinfull lusts of the flesh : which they did actually renounce before they made a contract with him . . that the devil did often visibly appear to them in sundry formes ( and perswaded them as he matth. . , , . luc. . , , , . tempted our saviour ) to fall down and worship him , which they did . . that he instigated them to torment , bewitch and destroy as his and their greatest enemy mr. lyford late minister of sherburne , a learned , pio us orthodox , painfull divine , being tormented with a painfull and sharpe disease of which he dyed ; and mr. bamfield his successour a very godly laborious minister , whom they have forced by their witchcrafts to desert the town . . the two women confess to all , that the divel hath oft times had actuall copulation with them in sundry shapes ; but most commonly in the shape of mr. lyford and mr. bamfield , the ministers of sherburne , whom he and they most hated and endeavoured to destroy . . the devil since their imprisonment hath frequently appeared to them all , and actually possessed them , bruising , tearing like the unclean spirit mar. . . to the . luc. . . . &c. tossing them frequently up & down the prison in a strange manner , tormenting them with strange fits of convulsions , quakings , shakings in all their joynts , and swellings in their whole bodies , that their skins are ready to break , which makes them cry out and roar with great horror , as divers eye-witnesses of quality attest . and if incredulous mr. denne , or any other quakers doubt the truth of it , if they please to visit them at dorchester , they will be enforced to confess it , and give glory unto god for his discovery of the evillness of the way and sect of quakers . to mr. hen. denne . sir ; § . . this day i met with a decree of the pope , condemning the late apology for the jesuits ( which was printed in answer to montalto's mystery of jesuitisme ) and threatning all who dare read or keep it ; but withall i met with a new apology for the same persons with your name prefixed . wherein wondring to find several aspersions cast upon sundry of the jesuites adversaries ( among the rest upon mr. tho. smith ) i resolved to spend an hour or two in vindicating them and the church of england ; which ( in favour to the flourishing romish mistriss and idolatry ) you think fit to call their fading mistriss and idol . . and here if i should imitate you , i should superscribe this , to my frivolous and learned friend , h. d. mr. of arts and senior soph. captain and apothecary , farmer and minister , the reverend apologist for the society of jesus . but counting it no virtue to imitate you in this kind , i shall only take notice of such passages as may appear to some weak people to be pertinent . . in the first page , you tell us that the tinker mendeth soules ; though you can not but know if you have read over that book which you pretend to answer ( which i much doubt ) that this tinker p. . l. . of his book entituled law and gospel , adviseth his convert in these words come to christ even as filthy as ever thou canst : that is ( if i understand english ) when you have sworn a vain oath and would go to prayer for pardon of that sin , first stab your father , then poison your mother , lie with your sister : and then go confidently to church , but not before . if mr. d. have read this or those other strange passages of this t's . sermon mentioned in the quaker disarmed , or ( if he 'l not believe that relation ) if he 'l credit his own eyes , and see what the same tinker saith against christ's oration ( mat. . . . ) and against the necessity of good works p. . . . . . . . . methinks he should not say this tinker mends soules ; unless he mean that he mendeth them just as he mends kettles , that is , stopping one hole and making many . . in the next place h. d. blames mr. s. for proving that none may preach unless they be sent , when ( quoth he ) the t. is of the same mind . i answer that the t. did deny it , till mr. s. had proved it ; or at least he bid him prove it . and mr. s. wa perswaded ( and still is ) that mr. e. to whom that letter was writ did not believe the necessity of any omission . . whereas you would fain invalidate mr. smiths ordination , you may suppose him ordeined by bp. hall ; and then when you have answerd mason de ministerio anglicano , dr. fern against champney , and the vindications of our reformation and orders which are writ by bp. bramhall and dr. heylin , 't is very probable you shall receive mr. s. his determination of your questions . till then he who thinks you have not vouchsafed to read that smal book which you pretend to answer & profess magisterially to censure , can not believe that you 'l find leisure to read his determinations of such questions . and he hath not so much spare time as you , to write and print books only for his own reading . . mean while i must tell you , that one reason why i think you have not read over the quaker disarmed , is because you put a case and three queries in your th . page , which are answerd in the letter to mr. e § . . yet for your more abundant satisfaction i le answer them more particularly ; by asserting . . that in your case the preaching of those shipwrackt men to pagans is no sin . ly . that in such extraordinary cases 't is lawfull for such a congregation to choose their teachers . ly . that such a congregation may find fitting men , full of faith , to preach unto unbelievers ; especially if the shipwrackt men have recourse , as soon as they can , to the church , to ordein them : as frumentius and aedesius did who are mentioned in the letter to mr. e. afore-cited . . but h. d. must give me leave to tell him , that that man hath an ill mind who being in a ship well orderd , usurpeth the masters or pilots place , and takes to himself what portion of the fraight he pleases ; meerly because a vessell shipwrackt is sometimes thought a lawfull prey by the people on the shore : and i wonder that these words should come from one that pretends to be a minister of the gospel , unless he would imply that he hath an eager mind to shipwrack an entire vessell under faile . . whereas in your th . page you fall foul upon mr. s. for disputing with quakers ; you must know , that those your friends did not only challenge him and all the clergy in england in print ( g. fox's mystery in folio p. . preface ) but set up their bills of defiance upon the commencement and school doors . nay the maiors wife and divers other quakers were importunate with mr. s. to dispute ( who half an hour before the on set resolved to decline it ) and the maior himself told mr. s. that he was glad he would undertake them , for he had oft said that they were so insolent because no man meddled with them . and the case standing thus ( as mr. james alders and many others can witness ) i would gladly see your determination ; and what you have to say against s. paul , who saith 't is the duty of a minister not only to exhort but to confute gainsayers tit. . . . for the argument of three hees see p. . mr. s. did not say , that this was the only way of proof , but that it was one ; he did not say , that all three hee 's be three persons , but that all hee s which be in heaven are such . you may see they were then speaking of the three that bear record in heaven ; and i hope mr. h. d. will stable none of his troop-horses in heaven though they come into pauls . . in your d . § . you would cleer g. w. from being a papist because you say he would take no oath ans. others think that he will take an oath when 't is for his advantage , as you may see in the queries ; and if that be true , ( as mr. s. hath reason to believe it ) i know no reason why he should refuse the oath unless he be a papist . nor would mr. s. i believe have mentioned that oath to him , if he had not been assured that g. w. and h. d. are both alike bitter enemies to the old moderate way of tryal , appointed by the church of england ; and if you be so , i am yet to learn what other way , beside this oath , he could have propounded . . to your d. § . where you ask who can make sense of the story of the twelve embassadours ; i answer any man but mr. d. who is unwilling . to the rest of this § . besides what you have been told before [ p. . l. . ] i reply , that though the father son and h. ghost are one essence , and each of these three is every where ; yet that they may manifest the distinction of persons , one having condescended to an incarnation whose human nature there appeared , the other two did at his baptisme manifest themselves by sensible symbols . which three sensible manifestations almighty god was pleased then to make unto mens senses in three distinct places ( though each of the three persons be in all places ) that we who are in divers places might have some apprehension of the distinct personalities . . in your th . § . you tell mr. smith of luther , calvin , zuinglius ( as the romanists are wont . ) as if all those who protest against the church of rome for pretending to infallibilty , were thereupon necessarily obliged to place the same infalibility in every protestant doctor . and whereas you ought ( if you would say any thing pertinently ) to prove what the protestants of the church of england answered , you tell us what the papists in other nations object ; whether truely or not i shall not now stand to examine . . but i am glad to meet with a man that hath read all the books of papists in those times , and all their histories . i hope you would not cite them all as fitted with matter for your purpose , unlesse you had read them all : i entreat you to cite not all of them ( though the more the merrier ) but only one , if you can , in all your vast historical readings ( i say one protestant of those many thousands that have defended the church of england ) who hath made such an enthusiastical answer as that of g. w. . in your th . § . you fondly imagine t. s. stark mute divers times ; as first , upon your saying that the first protestant bishops had no ordination , but what they mutually gave themselves and one another . ans. if you mean by mutually ( as common sense requires ) that the ordained did ordain the ordainer bishop , i beseech you to prove it : for 't is as false , as 't is evidently known that the four bishops-ordeiners were bishops before the beginning of q. elizabeths reign ; of which time onely you make this question and scruple . . secondly , you fancy t. s. mute again upon your asking who gave them commission to make math. parker arch-bishop of canterbury . ans. the bishops in king edward vi's . time did give them power and so commission ( for all bishops have commission when fit occasion and due circumstances occur ) to make mat. parker bishop : and i doubt not but mr. smith ( as mute as you conceive him , and impertinent in manuscripts ) is both able and ready to show you in his own private library ( besides what he hath in the publick ) some antient records , wherein you 'l find it evident that mat. parker was a true bishop ; if you think there can any evidence arise from the testimony of a peevish adversary , who lived in matthew parkers dayes . . presently you add that t. s. dared not profess openly that they received their commission from popish bishops of k. henry viii's time . ans. true ; because he dares not speak a falsity : for they received it in the time of edw. vi . though what you suppose had been no impossible thing , since good protestants in the dayes of edw. vi . had received valid baptisme ( as all men do acknowledg ) in henry the eights reign . . in answer to the rest of this § . be pleased to know that the antient church believed ( contrary to your popish novelty ) that all bishops had spiritual jurisdiction , as being successors to the apostles . and 't is only the interest of the pope to deny it : who is wont to make titular bishops without jurisdiction , to serve himself in his pretended councils . . i hope i need not tell mr. d. ( who tells others § . . how they speak at cambridge ) that a master and a family , an overseer and a charge are relata , rise and fall together : but i must tell him that bishop barlow and miles coverdale had the warrant of all their ecclesiastical superiors ( who then were over them ) to make bishops in the diocess of london and that bonner was not their superior . . to what you speake at large of q. elizabeths being a lay-person and not being able to give any power , &c. i answer ; what power that queen had , and ought to have in ecclesiastical matters you may see in the articles of the church of england : which no papist nor anabaptist ( h. d. or w. j. w. j. or h. d. ) was ever able to disprove , or durst say one word against it . . reading forward i am at a stand , and must plainly confesse i know not what you mean by what followes , viz. your comparing the common people , and masters of families with the queen that then was . i know not what your asserting that these have as much power as the queen can drive at , but casting off all authority ; like your brethren at munster . . to your th . § . i answer that if there be any churches beyond our seas , who count it their glory to want a succession of bishops , yea to cry shame upon it ; and to reject it as a superstitious relique of popery , and mark of antichrist , we are no more engaged to defend such people , then the quaker is engaged to defend the papist , or the papist a quaker ; nor so much , as appears by this apology which i am now answering . . this i know that not only the reformed churches in their confession of ausburg , and again in their apology for that confession ( cap. de . ordine ecclesiastico , & cap. de potestate eccles. ) and in their other colloquies at wormes and ratisbon , and divers of their books beside ; but likewise mr. calvin ( who subscribed the augustane confession ) in his book de necessitate reformandae ecclesiae to cardinal sadolet his old friend , and in his epistles to archbishop cranmer and bishop ridley , and in his institutions l. . c. . § . . and with him mr. beza too in his book de diversis gradibus ministr. . c. . § . . i say i know ( and am as sure as a man that believes his eyes can be ) that these and zanchy , diodati , cappellus , pet. moulin ; daillé , and others the most learned french-men now living believe episcopacy and the government by bishops to be lawfull at least . and i am sure that mr. t. s. if h. d. be so well acquainted with him as he pretends ( but i am told he confessed he did not know him so much as by sight , the same hour that he owned this printed book to him ) will at his request give him a larger list of reformed forraign divines on this subject , and proofes that other protestant churches beside the english have a successsion of bishops which i saw in his chamber . but there is so much already printed of the l. viscount falklands bp. carleton and others against your ungrounded assertion , that i shall deferr sending you a larger catalogue until you ( or your friend knot the jesuit , who also hath writ against episcopacy ) shall have answered dr. hamonds dissertations against blondel , otherwise than by your sword and sequestration . . your th . § . conteining nothing to the purpose but a bare assertion that [ t. s. § . . and ] great numbers even of episcopall men , presbyterians independents , and all professors besides papists , do refuse to take the oath of abjuration , is in my opinion answered sufficiently , till it be proved , by a bare negation ; though some of them have much more cause to refuse it than you ; who have taken away the former trial of popery , viz. recusancy ; common by the law to papists , anabaptists and other sectaries : which names i hope you 'l not be angry at , while you take them to your self p. . l. . . . in your th . § . you argue against the oath thus ; no man can safely swear that he believes no purgatory , unlesse he be as sure that there is no purgatory as that there is a god . ans. this looks like the saying of fa. knot against chillingworth , who thinks that what ever he believes in religion he believes with the same certainty wherewith he receives the highest articles of the christian faith . when passion and prejudice is laid aside , i hope you 'l find time to consider whether if you were now disputing in the divinity schools you might not safely affirm that to be true which is your opinion in any matter of religion , and not expect that any caviller who stands by ( and is no way concerned in the act ) should thence inferr and cry out that you are as sure of it as that there is a god who made the world . if this caviller should go further , single this assertion ( perhaps being only argumentum ad hominem ) out of your whole dispute and print a book against it , would not he be ( as you say mr. s. is ) not a little ridiculous ? and would not you your self take as little notice of him as mr. smith doth of you ? i should enlarge upon this your acception of the word believe , but that mr. chillingworth hath said enough of it in his answer to your brother knot , and t. s. in his defense of chillingworth . . in the last lines of this th . page you have these words , what do i know whether purgatory be revealed in scripture or no ? you seem here plainly to profess that you do not know whether papists or protestants be in the right , so far as to gods revelation in scripture ; which protestants have alwayes made their rule . by which we may judge what a protestant you are , and that anabaptists either deny the h. scripture to be their rule , or affirm that they know no error in purgatory . . to the th . § . whereof i can scarce make common sence , i might tell you that no parliament is in any sense that which is signified by the word person . but i rather answer that no parliament can free any person from any oath of beliefe which he hath taken : for example , if one parliament propound an oath to me to declare whether i think the articles of the councill of trent be orthodox and catholick , and i swear no ; from this oath ten thousand parliaments can never absolve me . if i swear in truth i need no absolution : but if i therein forswear my self , the parliament can not free me from perjury , nor remit the guilt of it . the matter of this oath was concerning belief , and i never yet heard or read , that any parliament in england did assume power of setting men at liberty from beleiving what they believe in matter of religion . i grant that an act of parliament may be repealed by a parliament and so the law of exacting this oath may be abrogated , but that an oath taken concerning matter of belief or not belief can be voided by any power on earth , is the doctrine not of any english parliament , but only of the conclave at rome : therefore ( good mr. denne ) creep not under the wing of an english parliament , but confesse your argument to be a naked weapon of a romish jesuite . . to your th . § . i answer briefly , that 't is not to be imagined any english parliament hath or will forbid the subject of any prince to acknowledg that civill subjection which is due to his soveraign , so long as he remaines in his dominions . . in your th and th sections you make the oath of abjuration to be both a prelaticall and presbyterian design ( prelaticall men must be sure to pay for all ) but whereas you tell me divers times of prelatical malice , and that the papists vniversally disown that tenet which is objected to them as theirs ; viz. that faith is not to be kept with hereticks . i shall not insist upon the lateran councel ( which decreed anno . . can. . that the pope hath power to absolve subjects from their obedience ) which is one of those synods to which bellarmin saith all that are catholicks must submit : but i reply , that what you say here is nothing to the purpose , for mr. s. never said otherwise , for ( in the th . page of his preface to daille's apology for the reformed churches ) he professeth so much kindness to the romanist in this particular , that i have heard him censured by some of them as talking there like an inamorato . but methinks both they and you instead of censuring him and bringing new arguments , should answer that which he printed therein above six years since ; especially when he there doth very earnestly beseech them to answer it , professing that he had been many years troubled with it . the argument is this , that which one or two ( or some few ) roman doctors say is lawfull , may ( in the judgment of papists ) be done without danger of mortal sin [ the major is mr. knots charity maintained c. . § . . as also valentia , vasquez , lessius , enriques , sa , cellot de hierarchia l. . c. . p. . ] but not only one , but many roman doctors say , 't is lawfull to murder or depose a supreme magistrate that is guilty of heresie or suspected of it . cavete principes conclusionem . the minor is sufficiently proved by dr. jer. taylors sermon on the powder treason p. . and . and in a small tract intituled romish positions for rebellion collected by bp. morton : and mr. yaxley's reasons why he could not be a romanist ( as he much desired ) and a good subject to his soveraign at one time . . reading 'tother day sleidans relation of your friends affairs at munster i met with this passage , that there was a law made at the councel of constance that promise should not be kept with hereticks , or those that be suspected for hereticks , though they came to the synod upon the publick faith of the emperour for the hearing of their cause . sleidan , l. . ad an. , mihi p. . edit. francf . . . you who pretend to skill in all popish histories cannot but know , that john hus had the emperour sigismunds safe conduct in as large termes as might be expressed , gratè suscipere , favorabiliter tractare — omnique prorsus impedimento remoto transire , stare , morari , & redirè libere permittatis , sibique [ husso ] & suis , dum opus fuerit de securo & salvo velitis & debeatis providere conductu , ad honorem & reverentiam nostrae regiae majestatis . and notwithstanding this he was burnt ; which questionless the emp. would not have suffered , but either in obedience to the command of the councel , or upon that councels perswading him that he was not to keep promise with a man whom they had declared an heretick : a man who ad incendium quasi ad epulas properavit , linguâ potens & mundioris vitae opinione clarus , as aeneas sylvius ( afterwards pope pius the d . ) hist. bohem. c. . . a man whose rare endowments poghius the florentine historian and orator ( an eye-witness of his triall at the councel of constance ) admired ; saying nihil unquam protulit indignum bono viro ; ut si id in fine sentiebat quod verbis profitebatur nulla in eum 〈…〉 edum mortis causa inveniri justa posset . o virum dignum memoriâ hominum sempiternâ ! epist. poghii ad lenard . aretin . in fascic. . rerum expet . & fug. p. . which passages i cite , lest you should object campians retractus ex fugâ , or any such frivolous pretence . . in summe , since you impertinently affirm that the papists universaly disown that tenet , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks ; methinks 't is fit you should prove that they universally disown the councel of constance , ( which is one of bellarmines . ) unless you are so far jesuited as that you reject that councell , because it ejected two popes . . mr. s. never yet said that papists ought not to be permited to improve their estates , nor that there are not some papists who abhorre breaking their promise ( and therefore while mr. d. talkes to the contrary he fights with his shadow ) but you shall do well to prove that no papists can take advantage from the decree of the councel of constance to break their promises made to protestants . and i cannot but take notice , how much the papists are beholden to mr. denne , for telling the world very plainly that they may finde every jot as much honest proceeding and credit in papists as in protestants . p. . l. penult . . a few lines after having told us that the presbyterians are easily enough infected with such leaven ( prelaticall malice ) he falls into these words , nor do they , while they fall thus upon others , take any notice of , or indeavour to answer , those things which are standing objections against thems●lves ; to wit in relation to their rebellion , disobedience and apostacy from the government of the church of rome ; which in good earnest i think they will never be able to answer , upon their own principles . ans. observe how this man ( though he called himself anabaptist and sectary but two or three lines before these words ) now soon forgets what person he had assumed , pulls off his vizard , and appears a bare faced romanist . observe how he who professes to teach men to be disobedient and rebellious to all bishops , passionately and hastily takes part with him , who hath usurped upon all bishops in the christian world : and rather then loose his design , calleth all who now professe not to obey the church of rome rebells , disobedient , and apostates from her government ( sure he can not in good earnest suppose them to be disobedient , unless in good earnest he believe they owe her obedience . ) then judge what a foul slander this is in mr. d. to blame protestants for their not endeavouring to answer those things which have been answered an hundred times by bishops unanswerably : judge what a crime it is for one who calls himself a protestant to object against this and all other reformed churches , the most bitter calumnies that the most extream rigid peevish papists have devised . . you goe on thus ; supposing their ordination for which they so much contend to be of necessity and of divine right , and that they had it from the church of rome , as most certainly they had . ans. here you seem to contradict what you said in the th . § . ( p. . l. . ) in these words , nor could he in truth affirm it . but if you mean by these words last cited out of the th . § . ( as they seem to import ) that you esteem our ordination to be of divine right because it came in succession from the church of rome , 't is a wide mistake . in summ , methinks you declare here openly in this paragraph that all who are baptized and ordained by any of the church of rome ( as 't is certain a great part of this nation was , even in the time of gregorius m. ) do therefore now and shall for all future ages owe obedience to the pope of rome ; or else they are all rebells and apostates . whereas we are not more ordained by those who were ordained by others from the church of rome , then mr. denne himself was baptized by the hand of one of those who was baptized from others that were heretofore romish priests ; so that our ordination is surely as divine as his baptisme . as for his being rebaptized , both the church of rome ( for whom he pleads ) and we and all the christian world account him , for that , a rebell and apostate from the universall church . . but because he sayes in good earnest he believes it can never be answered upon our principles , he shall receive his answer in these three lines following , challenging both the jesuites and anabaptists mr. h. d. and n. n. to answer it if they can : the answer is this . . the popes of the church of rome dare not deny themselves to have received ordination from the church of jerusalem ; notwithstanding this they professe that they owe no subjection to the bishop of jerusalem : therefore it was ( not prelaticall , but ) anabaptistical i malice to tell all bishops that have been ordained from rome they are apostates and rebels from the church of rome in good earnest if they ( avouching ordination from the clergy to be of necessity and divine right ) do not obey the pope . . that which followes in your books about mr. g. & mr. p. who disputed against the romanists ( a fact which i believe mr. hen. denne never was never will be guilty of ) all that know those ministers know to be superfluous and frivolous . however i to whom you ( in defense of the quakers very pertinently do object this ) think fit to tell you , that whereas the romanist took a longer time only to put forth an edition of that , which if he had dealt truely was all before done to his hand ; whereas he hath also so changed , transposed , added , diminish't and made of it what he list , that i believe it will be as soon owned for your ( i mean not j. s. but h. d's . ) conference as mr. pearsons or mr. gunnings ; i must now tell you further ( what you have been oft enough told ) that that relation cannot expect to be regarded by mr. p. or any sober person which is disclamed and disowned by three of the four who were disputants , viz. by both the protestants and half the papists . . but chiefly i must entreat you to consider whether the inserting of above . lines at a time as part of the conference which never was part of it ( besides all professed additions ) ly . whether the leaving out whole sheets of the protestants , which the papists thought too hard to answer ; and ly . the scarce suffering any one argument and answer of both to come together ( but casting usually parts of the same paper of mr. g. many score leaves asunder one from the other ) be not a scandal that any christian would desire might be covered with silence . and i would gladly know from any ingenuous person , whether this might not be answer enough to a book put out at the charge of the romanists own purse and conscience ; a discourse by being mangled rendred so unintelligible , that scarce any man ever read it over or will . . one of your friends sent copies of this conference between mr. g. mr. p. and the jesuites to mr. t. s. in cambridge , who being very desirous to hear what was in it ( and having not leasure to read it all himself ) gave two of them away , upon condition that those learned persons on whom he bestowed them should read it : but they both threw it aside before they had read a few leaves of it . reverend mr. will. moor , the deceased library keeper , was perswaded by mr. t. s. to read one leaf ; but professed before many witnesses he would not read another if you would give him the whole impression : because 't was so unintellegible for the causes above mentioned . . as for your own book ( which you commend ) against the same mr. g. of the same alloy . if a tract as full of falshood as any pamphlet is wont to be fraught with , may be believed against so many thousand witnesses as heard you both dispute two dayes ; & at length the dispute , interrupted by the anabaptists themselves against all laws of dispute , as you your self then & there acknowledged ; if mr. gunnings giving the world satisfaction at the same place concerning the whole matter and the universall churches tradition concerning that question , in a third discourse afterward , at the request of the moderator ( for the moderator hearing both mr. d. and mr. g. appeal to the churches tradition , said , that the auditory was unsatisfied in that particular , and therefore desired that one of them would take the pains to clear it , mr. denne refusing mr. g. did it ) to which mr. denne then durst not reply a word . if i say all this cannot rescue mr. g. from the expectation of a reply to a pamphlet in print , because forsooth 't is in print , we may expect his answer hereafter when he shall see fit ; with a relation of a former and of a later jesuites dealing and mr. dennes collated . . but in the mean while to give you and your friends employment ( which i perceive you want ) and satisfaction if possible ; after you have answered the letter in quaker disarm'd ( taking in the enclosed printed paper entituled a gag for lay-preachers which you may have neer the little north-door of s. pauls , ) i shall entreat you to know ( because you complain of your books lying unanswered , and therein a scandall and prejudice to the protestant cause ) that there is a multitude of considerable books writ by protestants in folio and other volumes against the church of rome which have been . or . years unanswered ; and are like to lye forty more . . i shall name some : first ( for your reading ) a new gag for an old goose by bishop mountague , bp. franc. white , and bp. laud , and bp. chappell against fisher , spalato's . tomes , bp. hall , birckbeck , crackenthorp , bp. mountague against bullinger , dr. tho. jackson , chillingworth , ( tho your friends the jesuites have attempted to answer his pamphlet , as they call it , divers times , and mr. knot was . or . years about one . ) then in a smaller volume so many that a bare catalogue of them would make a big book , as dr. cosins , dr. jer. taylor , dr. fern , dr. featly , dr. heylin , dr. hammond of infallibility , and his dispatcher dispacht . these all new , beside old ones . not to mention the heaps of excellent pieces of forrainers dailleus , moulin , blondell , calixtus , bochartus , placeus , &c. each of them as famous and considerable as your jesuites . . and yet you and they be the men that clamour against the protestants as if they could say nothing for themselves , when 't is as clear as the sun at noon , that neither you in this apology nor they in their other writings have a word to alledg against us , but what hath been unanswerably refelled by the forementioned authors and others . times . and yet you are so wise as to complain of our silence , and the jesuites ( for whom you here plead ) put forth books consisting only of questions to the same men , insteed of giving them so much as one answer to their many demonstrations made against you : and though some of them as mr. g. dr. h. &c. never declined any meeting with the ablest of you and the jesuites , but attend the business as diligently as if they had nothing else to do , and have been oft declined by you and them , and can bring witnesses to depose where severall romish priests have appointed dayes and houres and ( at the very hour appointed ) sent a flam to prevent the meeting . . but to come closer to you mr. denne . for your part , besides this scandalous false printed relation of your own here mentioned , one may ( to use your own words ) guesse at the conscience and honesty of mr. hen. denne by his saying not one word in his book of a publick conference held by him and the same person , upon the same question , at castor in northamptonshire . but i suppose you 'l publish that when you print your publick dispute with mr. weller of immanuel colledge before the committee at the bear in cambridge . . besides all this , a reasonable man would think that mr. gunning having taken such paines , when you disputed with him at s. clements church , to keep the auditors from hissing mr. hen. denne quite off from the desk and dispute ( as divers who were there tell me they will witnesse ) deserves to be excused if he takes no paines to consider your pamphleting afterwards . . the mentioning whereof minds me of your blaming mr. t. s. for arabick , &c. in answer to which i am told , that though he ownes the dispute as a true matter of fact , and so far his ; yet 't was penned by one of the auditors who took it in short-hand : and then it was no absurdity to say mr. smith was doing that which all the university knowes he was appointed by the vice-chancellour to do , in reference to printing a catalogue of all the manuscripts in cambridge , which is now ready for the press . but suppose all this to be false , yet it will be hard if mr. t. s. who was deputed by mr. wheelock when he left cambridge without hope of returning ( under hand and seal ) arabick professour and hath taught that language to divers , have not more skill in that tongue then you have in the aethiopick who cannot read it , and yet cited that and all other translations of the n. t. in the publick conference that you boast of at st. clements church without temple-bar : saying you would stick to the aethiopic . and your respondent asking you whether you brought your argument from the aethiopic copy or the latin version ? you replyed with some smartness from both , from both , sir . which passage ( together with your saying that children cry because they are unwilling to be baptized though they neither will nor nill , with divers others ( which you are so faithful a relater as to pass over in silence ) having made those thousands of people which heard you very merry , might have remained buried in silence , if looking into your two books i had not met with your aethiopic as well as arabick . . but now leaving your languages i returne to your apology , where § . . you say you can not see any great reason of fear or danger from the papists , questionlesse your bare warrant shall secure all english men from powder-plots hereafter . . your th § . you thus begin in their defence , i am to say something concerning those common brutes which are raised against popish priests and jesuites , as if they did secretly insinuate themselves into the congregations of different professions in religion . to which i answer that mr. pryn , mr. baxter and the rest whom you call bedlams p. . & . may cry you mercy for the report of secret insinuations , for me thinks 't is open enough now ; or let the world judge by this book of yours . . but let us hear what he reports these bedlams and bookmakers to say ( by the way did h. d. never furnish the tobacco-shop with wast paper they tell ( quoth h. d. ) of an idle fellow one ramsey , &c. i wish mr. hen. den were such an idle fellow , that he be likely to have the tithe of his scholarship , though he live as long again . what this mr. ramsey is and was , i desire mr. denne may learn from a book printed by some of very good repute in newcastle , and the depositions sent up by the mayor of that town with mr. ramsey to london ; some years before mr. prynne could hear any thing of his conference at cambridge : so that he was not imprisoned upon a bare suspicion as mr. d. saith . how he got out of the gatehouse , and what he did in cambridge , i had rather he should hear from mr. ratcliff and mr. griffith of christs colledge , divers of st. johns and other colledges ( whom he taught hebrew ) than from me ; who am confident i know his religion & design from other reasons , besides his frequenting milton neer cambridge . but sure h. d's concluding that because ramsey came not to further tryal , therefore he was no disguised papist , is no better an argument , than if he should prove , that there have been no jesuits in england of late years , because ( though divers have been apprehended ) none have been brought to tryal . . concerning the franciscan at bristol , the oath of g. cowlishaw ironmonger in bristol is upon record , and printed in mr. pryns quaker unmaskt , edit. . p. . who ( p. , &c. ) answers to what h. d. here objects to clear the franciscan . besides him at bristol , i could tell mr. denne a strange story of his father whitebread saying mass about london ; and of another disputing for the quakers , and presently proved a masked papist at wolverhampton : but i had rather he should have these things from others who have more leisure . when he shall have considered these and other like relations ( which will shortly be printed at large ) i will desire him to tell the world , whether they be groundless and unproved calumnies . . to the next words , wherein he sayes , no mans innocency will be able to protect him against suspition ; i answer , that it is not fit any man should judge , how hardly mr. denne shall be dealt with by any suspitions , further then may appear by those propositions of his , which are recollected in the close of this address . . in the very next line h. d. saith , that he for his part does very confidently assure himself , that if an oath were tendred to all the papists in this nation , they would willingly swear , that neither they themselves , nor any that they know , did ever use any such practise , or ever thought it lawful to dissemble their religion . wherein h. d. expresses questionlesse a greater confidence in behalf of the jesuits , then either clark or watson would of robert parsons the jesuite ; or the secular priests at this day will for the body of that society , as appears by their books which for these sixty years they have writ one against another . so that h. d. is a closer friend to the jesuites then many romish priests be . . this th . § . begins thus , we all know 't is a fallacious way of arguing to proceed , a posse ad esse , as they speak at cambridge ( do not they speak so at doway and st. omers too ? ) and yet no better is the argument of the papist's adversaries in this case . here he blames some persons under the name of popish adversaries , sure he means to exempt himself from the number . and before he is gone to the middle of this page he falls again to undertaking for the principles of popery , and passes his word that their principles contain nothing which allowes dissimulation in religion . . but in the last page he will needs have mr. s. to be a papist for asserting that we receive the canon of scripture upon the authority of the church of all ages , and the pure spouse of christ , i would fain be told by mr. denne what reason he can give to his brethren anabaptists and the quakers , why the song of solomon should be canon and other usefull books which bare his name apocrypha , why the revelation of st. john should be put into the canon . years after christ and some gospells ( bearing the apostles names ) left out , but the authority of the jewish church for the old , and of the christian for the new testament ? but i would have him remember that to talk of the pure spouse of christ , and the church of all ages , and exclude the . apostles and the first century out of it , is a discourse not becoming mr. dennes profession . . sure h. d. never saw dr. cosin of the canon of scripture , nor hooker's ecclesiastical policy , nor heard of st. augustines non crederem scripturis nisi me moveret ecclestae authoritas . if mr. s. be a papist for this , he hath these and a multitude of such good protestant-company popish with him . . you ask what other church was there in all ages , but the roman ? i answer , unless you and i agree now upon the terms of the question we must end where we should have begun ; therefore first i must desire you to tell me what you mean by the roman church ? which i shall scarce know , till you answer the . questions that mr. t. s. puts in the close of his preface to daille's apology . but that you may not pass without one answer , i pray tell me what other church was there in all ages but the greek church , and those that agree with her in all or most part of what she holds , particularly in believing no infallibility or soveraign jurisdiction ( over all ) in the bishop of rome , for which among other good doctrines the present roman church refuseth her communion ? . and here you mend all at last ; for you no sooner hear talk of a pure spouse of christ the church of all ages , but you apprehend it can be understood of none but the roman church ; and say plainly , that to talk of a pure spouse of christ and the catholick church in the creed , the church of all ages ( for those are the words in the letter that you cite ) is doubtless in effect , to justifie the church of rome to be a pure church . . thus having examined mr. hen. dennes new book and religion , i shall only recollect a few positions publisht by him and his friend george whitehead the quaker ( whom he would prove to be no papist , and therefore that no papist is a quaker ) and then leave mr. d. to turn over his aethiopick testament , all the books of papists , and all their histories ; and leave the reader to judge how good protestants this fit couple be ; h. d. and g. w. george whitehead besides those particulars which are mentioned in the queries hereto annexed ( especially p. . and . ) maintaines these seven following romish doctrines : . that justification is by inherent righteousness : and so saith no protestant but so saith bellarmin l. . de justificat . c. . ly . that a man may perfectly keep the law without sin : so saith ( not protestants but ) bell: l. . de justif. c. . . . . ly . g. w. denies the imputed righteousness of christ for justification : so bell: l. . de justif. c. . ly . g. w. affirms that scripture is not the supream rule for trial of spirits : so bell: l. . de verbo dei c. . ly . g. w. hath writ an whole book against mr. clapham to prove that the written word is but a dead letter , and carnal . so saith costerus in enchyridio . p. . ly . g. w. pretends to immediate revelations and pretended miracles ( see clapham and the century of queries ) so do the papists : unchurching them who pretend not to them as triall of a church . ly . g. w. and the papist both alike place much of their holiness in their beggarly apparrell , in going openly with sackcloath and barefooted , which i find taxed by the ancient fathers of the church . thus far g. w. . now , for mr. hen. denne ; i hope the reader hath ere this observed , that though this book of his before us be entituled for the quakers , & ( as i am told ) was offered to them at the bull and mouth in aldersgate-street for their press , yet it is indeed all in behalf of the papists ; and conteins not one word ( from the first to the last ) to the advantage of any sect under heaven but only the romish : that the very same arguments , and the very same expressions are used now against the church of england by the anabaptist and by the papist , so that he who answers one of them answers both . i might take notice also of such words in this quaker no papist , as cause the author thereof whoever he be ( h. d. or j. w. or w. j. for i take them to be all one man ) to smell of a forrein countrey : as when he speakes of the justice of peace in his district , p. . and calls the same man batchelour of divinity and master of arts , putting this after that , and the like : but to let this pass i shall only mention a few of mr. hen. dennes positions delivered by him in this tract ( for i have not leasure to look into mr. robothams den of theeves ) and then leave our disputant and scholar to read his aethiopic books . some of his doctrines printed in this book entituled quaker no papist , are these , . . that mr. h. d. does not know whether purgatory be revealed in scripture or not . p. . l. penult . . that 't is clear who ever takes the oath of abjuration doth forswear the priviledges of parliament . p. . medio . . that in good earnest he thinks those who had their ordination from the church of rome and do not obey the pope , are rebells , disobedient and apostates , if they defend the necessity of ordination by bishops p. . medio . . that he finds as much honest proceedings and credit in papists as in protestants p. . l. penult . & can see no great reason of fear or danger from papists p. . l. . . that he does very confidently assures himself ( sure no man else can assure him ) that if an oath were tendred to all the papists in this nation ; they would all willingly swear that neither they themselves nor any that they know , did ever use any such practise as is reported of ramsey by mr. pryn ( and some in cambridge ) and of a franciscan by mr. baxter ; and swear that neither they nor any they know did ever make profession for what ends soever , to be of any religion save only their own , p. . fine . . that no protestant minister either in england or beyond the seas hath any better ordination or commission to preach then g. whitehead the quaker . p. , , . lastly ( for i will not trouble the reader with recollecting all ) that the present roman church and no other is the pure spouse of christ , or else there hath been none in all ages . from these seven capitall assertions of popery let any indifferent man judge whether mr. h. d. ( notwithstanding his vehement pretendings to the contrary ) may not be justly thought to favour the doctrine of the presentroman church , alittle more then a man of his profession ( which is anabaptisme , next door to quakery ) should do . and so till you answer these threescore paragraphs i bid you heartily farewell . questions errata . in the letter to mr. d. p. . l. . r. mission § . . r. bellarmines councels . in the queries , p. . l. . for let the reader judge , r. no conclusion can be false when the premises are true , l. . oft fordids , p. . l. . r. sr walter l. . countess of sidney , p. . l. . dele viz. lust wrath , &c. p. . l. . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . l. . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . p. . l. . for at the end of r. in the preface to these queries . the living words of a dying child being a true relation of some part of the words that came forth, and were spoken by joseph briggins on his death-bed. being on the th day of the th moneth called june, . aged years, five moneths, and dayes. briggins, joseph, or - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the living words of a dying child being a true relation of some part of the words that came forth, and were spoken by joseph briggins on his death-bed. being on the th day of the th moneth called june, . aged years, five moneths, and dayes. briggins, joseph, or - . [ ], , [ ] p. s.n.], [london? : printed in the year, . caption title on pg. : "the wonderful sayings spoken by joseph briggins, worthy to be minded.". place of publication conjectured by wing. reproduction of the original in the christ church library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng last words -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the living words of a dying child . being a true relation of some part of the words that came forth , and were spoken by joseph briggins on his death-bed . being on the th . day of the th . month called june . aged years , five months , and dayes . out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength , psal . . . printed in the year , . to the readers , whether children or others . this youth was a very dutiful child to his parents , and patient , and ready to receive instruction ; never was known to resist his father or mothers advice and councel , but always ready to obey their commands , and minded good things , being very bashful , and ready to put himself forwards to do any business to please his parents or relations ; never sullen nor dogged ; and what he did it was with all his might faithfully in obedience to a meek and quiet spirit to the last minute : in the time of his health for three years last past , he used to go to hear at the meetings of the people called quakers , and no where else , and was by rude boys scoff'd , at , and called a quaker . he was a very manly , meek and sober child , not given to quarrel with any . what we have here related , that he spoke of the great love of the lord , both to his own soul , and to his people , is far short of what he declared . his departure hence was on the third day of the fifth month , at in the morning , the day of his sickness ; in great stillness and patience he entred into everlasting life . and we who were eye and ear witnesses of this following relation , do testifie , that his words were so in verse , and in such a great power they were expressed , indeed greater than we can declare . we whose names are subscribed , are witnesses for the lord in this matter , besides several others then present . william briggins , hesther briggins . his father and mother living in bartholomew-close in london . john goodson , chirurgeon , at the chirurgeons-arms in bartholomew-close , next neighbour . margaret adams the nurse . elizabeth harford the maid . mary and elizabeth moux , lodgers in the house . the wonderful sayings spoken by joseph briggins , worthy to be minded . on the . day of the fourth month , about the seventh hour in the evening , being ( as we thought ) very near death , after he had layen silent for about an hour , he began to appear full of exceeding great joy and pleasantness , and his mouth was opened , and he said , i shall praise the lord , for he is only to be praised : so he went on in heavenly words in prayer , to the admiration of the nurse and maid that heard him ; of all which they only could remember that he said in admiration . oh! i have never heard of any other god but thee , o my holy one. and the nurse offering him some cordial to drink , nay said he , i shall not eat nor drink until i have seen my heavenly fathers face in glory . and more and more he was changed and filled with exceeding great joy and pleasantness , and said , i have heard of thee , but now i see thee in glory . and many heavenly sayings and expressions came from him , the maid and nurse did think he had been neer going away : he hearing them speak so , he earnestly said , pray call up my father and mother , for i have something to say to them concerning what i have seen of my heavenly fathers glory . so he went on uttering many heavenly sayings and exhortations in sound judgement ; his mother was called up , and seeing him so greatly changed in so short a time , she wept , and ran down stairs and called his father , and several people that was there at that time ; and when he hears them come up , he joyfully called out , father , father , oh father ; and held out his hand , and shook his father by the hand , and said , oh! pure and glorious is my saviour which hath appeared to me , and hath taken me into his kingdom : oh! mine eye hath seen his glory . his words were expressed in so great wisdom and power that we were all amazed at them being also in meetre for the space of about one hour and a half praising god , and admiring him , and his glorious power , and holy order of glorified saints and holy angels , and of the glorious day of god revealed said he . some of which many words he gave forth to us are as followeth , viz. o most glorious god , great and wonderful things are brought to pass by thy own pure holy power , by which thou hast revealed thy son unto us thy ministers , o my king , o let all people fear and stand in awe of thy power , by which thou hast gathered many out of their sinful waies into pure obedience to thee : oh , thou hast given us a living knowledge of thee , o pure , glorious , holy god , let thy life reach unto all my dear friends ; and keep them that know thee firm and stedfast upon thy holy foundation christ jesus my king , whose appearance is very glorious at this day , and of his government no end is to be ; but thousands of thousands , millions of thousands shall come to see , and be made with me partakers of his glorious bright-shining-day . of which many words more he spake which cannot be remembred . again he said , o glory , glory , everlasting praises be given to thee by me , and all we that know thee ; o i have much to say for thee . he was asked if he knew what he had said ? his answer was , i have preached the gospel to you. his father desired at present to hearken and mind what he said , and spake some of his words to them but he was grieved , and said : o be silent all flesh and stand by , for we that have seen thy pure mighty glory , can preach this gospel which is thy power , and the day comes on apace , that all that undertakes to speak of thee , and obeyes not thy power , by this power they shall be brought to silence ; there are many waies and baptisms in the world ; but oh thou pure , holy , holy one ; we thy ministers have known thy spiritual baptism into christ jesus my lord , by which the living water have we known and felt . oh it is indeed exceeding pure , by which we have been washed from all our sins . oh my king thou wast slain , and by the virtue of thy pure blood , we have this gain , oh that all may wait continually upon thee , that they may be kept from all the deceivable waies of this world ; oh mind and serve the lord in your day for his holy truth revealed in you is the way in which you must wait and obey . oh! glorious are the beams of his sun that hath shined into my heart , in which i have seen the glory of his day , although in the grave shortly this body is to lie . but oh glory , glory , and hallelujah's my soul doth sing to thee oh my king for the redemption of my soul , that shall never dye ; but in praises pure for ever shall endure ; a living taste thou hast given to me most sure ; o my father and mother ; all my friends which to me are dear ; yet a glory i have seen most bright , in which i shortly must appear ; he is my king and leader which is my saviour most dear ; o exceeding glorious is this holy place where saints and angels in bright-shining glory behold his pure face ; oh all obey his pure truth in your day , that you may feel the virtue of his grace , for mortal man is but to run his race . and woe to them that shall not obey his grace , for such do not seel his virtue , nor ever shall see his face . some were whispering together towards the further end of the room , at which he seemed to be grieved , and said these words , pointing with his finger . here is a spirit speaks in this room that is not of god. he was so much spent he could hardly speak , and bid the people that stood by stand further that he might have a little aire ; he was offered something to drink ; he said he would not receive it ; a little after he was pressed again to receive it . no said he , if i should i should tell a lie , and gave a signe to put it away , and said , oh the sons of god have better refreshment then a cup of cold water . and so lay silent a while , but again spake as followeth : the lord hath taken me into his kingdom , he hath discovered the fresh springs of his love to my soul : all that know the lord be obedient to his power , and he will discover himself more to you , and you shall know more , thousands , thousands millions will the lord call : o that my kindred after the flesh might come to know the lord. again after some time of silence he said , oh that my fellows , my companions might know the lord , they shall know the lord , they shall follow me : here be some stand by me that do not know the lord. which he repeated again and again , and then said , what wait you to hear ? what do you all stand here to hear ? his father answered him , they stand to hear what the lord will speak by thee . he said no , all that are here do not wait to hear the lord speak ; you do not all know the lord , you think you know him ; but you know him but in the notion , but when you come to die , you shall know that you did not know the lord. when some spake of his being light-headed , and as though he should speak he knew not what , he seemed grieved , and earnestly said , i had rather be torn alive by doggs , than that an impure or unholy word should come out of my mouth . some that knew him very well , wondered to hear him speak as he did , and said they had never heard such words come from him before ; he said . the lord hath fully made that known to my soul which i had some feeling of before . on the next day about the seventh hour in the morning he was very earnest in prayer softly to himself ; but some words were heard , viz. o let all that know not thy pure truth come and receive it saith my soul. and sung of the olive-tree , and the fruit thereof which he had fed on , and of his refreshment he had thereby . he was asked what he meant by the olive-tree ? he said the tree of life . and many more heavenly sayings he uttered before he departed to his everlasting rest . the end . ansvvers to severall queries put forth to the despised people called quakers, by philip bennett, who cals himself a minister of christ, but is found a deceiver; answered by them to whom they were directed. also, ansvvers to severall other subtil queries put forth by one iohn reeve, who lives in the city of london, who cals himself the last messenger and witnesse unto the true god, but is found a false witnesse, and a lyar, and a perverter of the right way of god. / answered by edward burrough, and francis howgill, who are witnesses unto the truth against this subtil serpent-like generation. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) ansvvers to severall queries put forth to the despised people called quakers, by philip bennett, who cals himself a minister of christ, but is found a deceiver; answered by them to whom they were directed. also, ansvvers to severall other subtil queries put forth by one iohn reeve, who lives in the city of london, who cals himself the last messenger and witnesse unto the true god, but is found a false witnesse, and a lyar, and a perverter of the right way of god. / answered by edward burrough, and francis howgill, who are witnesses unto the truth against this subtil serpent-like generation. burrough, edward, - . howgill, francis, - . [ ], p. printed for giles calvert, at the black-spread-eagle, at .., london, : [ ] annotation on thomason copy: "octob: ". imperfect: imprint cropped; date of publication suggested by thomason catalog. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng quakers -- england -- london -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no ansvvers to severall queries put forth to the despised people called quakers,: by philip bennett, who cals himself a minister of christ, bu burrough, edward d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion ansvvers to severall queries put forth to the despised people called quakers , by philip bennett , who cals himself a minister of christ , but is found a deceiver ; answered by them to whom they were directed . also , ansvvers to severall other subtil qveries put forth by one iohn reeve , who lives in the city of london , who cals himself the last messenger and witnesse unto the true god , but is found a false witnesse , and a lyar , and a perverter of the right way of god . answered by edward burrough , and francis howgill , who are witnesses unto the truth against this subtil serpent-like generation . london , printed for giles calvert , at the black-spread-eagle , at 〈…〉 answers to severall queries put forth to the diepised people called quakers . we having received a paper which was directed to rich. roper , and to his quaking friend , which words comes from the dark carnall mind , quaking and trembling , which the saints and holy men of god witnessed , we own and witnesse ; therefore do we deny thee and all thy dark divinations . whereas thou philip benett , in thy note which thou hast writen to roper , in answer to a letter which he wrote to thee , wherein he charges thee to be a lyar , and a false accuser , and charges thee to bring any man to witnesse what thou hast spoken by them , whom , thou sayes , denyed that christ that dyed at jerusalem , and who they were that denyed that christ that suffered at jerusalem , or else acknowledge thy self to be a slanderer , and in thy paper , thou gives no answer at all to these words , but sayes , thou called the congregation to witnesse , but doth not mention one in all the congregation that will witnesse it , whereupon the lye rests upon thy head , and thou found to be the lyar , and the slanderer , and the false accuser . and whereas thou sayes , thou hast sent queries concerning that matter , thy queries makes thee manifest what thou art , many of thy own tribe and generation , if they saw thy queries , would be ashamed both of thee and of thy queries ; for hundereds there are in the world that knowes nothing of the true and living god , and yet would see thee and thy queries not to be worth answering , yet lest thou should boast in thy filthy ignorance and darknesse , and for clearing of the truth to the simple : something in answer to them . quer. whether was the vvord made flesh , or the son of god made of a woman more or oftner then once ? answ. in this first querie thou hast manifested what thou art to all the children of light , and where thou art , and what spirit thou art of , a reprobate , a child of darknesse thou art ; thou might have spared the other nineteen queries , for in this querie thy spirit is tryed , and in the eternall light seen and known : thou askes whether the word was made flesh any more or oftner then once , which makes it plainly manifest , that thou knowes not what thou askes , and that thou dost not know nor cannot witnesse the word to be made flesh once , but art one of the antichrists and deceivers which john speakes of , that are entered into the world , which cannot confesse jesus christ come in the flesh , and therefore thou queries whether the word was made flesh any more or oftner than once , which querie comes from thy dark polluted minde , who is out of the light , and a stranger to the life , and without god in the world , amongst the false prophets , antichrists and deceivers which are in the world , and in the light of christ , which condemnes the world , yea , are all seen , known , and made manifest , and are turned away from by these who dwell in the light , which light condemnes thee and all thy generation eternally ; and the word made flesh we witnesse which dwells amongst us , and we behold his glory as the glory of the only begotten of the father , according to the scripture , whereby we witnesse thee and all thy generation to be in the sorcery , and in the witchcraft , deceiving and betraying the souls of the simple , the light of christ in thy conscience will tell thee so , for that thou must be obedient to , and witnesse before thou witnesse the word to be made flesh once , for thou art darknesse it self , and the light in thy conscience , if thou would let it rise , will be thy condemnation , and when thou can witnesse the word to be made flesh once , then thou wilt know whether the son of god was made of a woman any more or oftner than once : but thou art the dragon that would devour the manchild which the woman hath brought forth , who shall rule all nations with a rod of iron , and her child is caught up to god and to his throne , thou , the dragon , and thy angels is cast out into the earth ; and therefore dost thou persecute the woman which hath brought forth the manchild , but thou art overcome by the blood of the lamb , and the word of his testimony ; and for thy other nineteen queries , thou hast conjured them up in thy black art out of the bottomlesse pit , which is to be turned into perdition , if thou had an ear thou might hear , or an eye thou might read , but thou art blind . quer. whether did the man christ jesus the son of god , slain , ( in respect of gods decree and efficacie of his death ) from the foundation of the world really and indeed suffer death or dissolution of soul and body , as upon the crosse at jerusalem , more or oftner than once . answ. here in this querie thou diviner is found adding to the scripture thy divinations of thy own brain , whereupon the plagues of god is to be added unto thee , and poured upon thee , for as thou sayes , the man christ jesus the lamb of god , slain ( in respect of gods decree and efficacie of his death ) from the foundation of the world . oh thou lyar , let all people see where there is such a scripture that speakes as thou speakes here , but in the sight of christ thou art seen , and in the life comprehended , and art for condemnation . the man christ jesus we own and witness , and the lambs book of life , which was slain from the foundation of the world we witnesse , the lamb of god , which takes away the sins of the world , we witnesse according to the scripture ; praises , praises , eternal praises , be to the lord god for ever , and thee to be the beast that makes war with the lamb we witnesse , and thou anti-christ which looks at christs death at jerusalem alone , and cannot confesse him no otherwise but without thee , here thou art but equall with the pope of rome , for he confesses christ dyed at jerusalem as well as thou ; so let all thy congregation see what they hold up that followes thee . querie whether did the man christ ever really and indeed suffer in his own person , for that end and after that manner which he did once upon the crosse at jerusalem , before the time , or since the time ? answ. here thou full of all subtilty hath made manifest thy poison and enmity , but with the light of christ thou art seen , and known , and with it condemned for ever ; christ jesus in his own person doth , and ever did , suffer by thee , and such as thou art , and by thy generation he did suffer at jerusalem , and doth suffer where he is made manifest by you , after the same manner , and thou blind pharisee and blasphemer , would thou have christ to have more ends in suffering than one ? quer. whether was not that death which the man christ suffered once , and but once , upon the crosse at jerusalem so satisfactory for all the sins of the elect , as that the justice of god , did not , doth not since require any suffering or working upon that account , either from sinner or from saint . ans. here thou jesuite art pleading again for a christ farre off thee , according as thy father doth at rome , that christ that dyed at jerusalem did not satisfie for thee who art an enemy to him , and doth not abide in his doctrine , but acts contrary to his commands , and art under the wo , which he cryed against them that were in the same stops where thou art , and from that wo thou shalt never fly ; the death of the man christ jesus which suffered at jerusalem we own and witnesse ; the same christ that suffered at jerusalem we witnesse made manifest , and the one god and the one mediator we witnesse and know ; betwixt god and man , the man christ jesus , according to the scripture : and here thou lyar art made manifest to all thy congregation to be a lyar , who said amongst them , that we denyed that christ that died at jerusalem , so let them all be witnesses of thy lyes , & let thy mouth be stopt thou lyer , who art for the lake ; and whereas thou queries whether the justice of god be not satisfied for the sins of the elect , here let shame strike thee in the face , that ever thou should take upon thee to speak to any people , and knowes not the scripture ; where dost thou read in all the scripture , that god doth require satisfaction for the sins of the elect , or laid any thing to their charge , let all people try thee here by the scripture , and see whether thou be not a blind ignorant sott , who doth not know what the justice of god requires , neither from sinner nor from saint , isa. . . isa. . . . luk. . . rom. . . quer. whether you be reconciled to god by any other obedience , than that particular obedience which christ performed in his own person , and is mentioned in the scripture , or by any other suffering or death , than that which christ once suffered upon the crosse at jerusalem ? ans. silence flesh : would thou , ( who art an enemy to god , and a child of disobedience , in whom the prince of the air rules ) know how we are reconciled to god , and by what obedience , first own the light in thy conscience which condemnes thee , and be obedient to that , and then thou shalt know by what obedience it is that reconciles to god , for yet thou knowes no obedience , nor the death which christ suffered upon the crosse , thou dost not know , but art an enemy to the cross of christ , and in the mistery of iniquity , and in the dark power and man of sin ; what hast thou to do to talk of obedience , who art reconciled to thy lust , and sin reigns in thee , and thou art blind in the broad way that leads to death , as thy fruits makes it manifest , who lives in strife and envy . quer. whether did not the man christ suffer as a publick person in the elects stead , or in their behalf , and for that end that none who believed in him might dye eternally ? ans. there thou blinde guide makes many replyes , but still one and the same thing , but thou makes it manifest , that thou dost not know the man christ at all , nor his sufferings , for death reigns in thee yet , that hath passed over all men that askes this querie ; for a publick person christ is not to ●●ee , but a mistery which thou knowes nothing of , and for the redeeming of the elect from under such mouths as thine , did and doth christ suffer ; and those that are brought to believe denyes such dumb idoll shepherds as thee , who as yet doth not believe , and therefore shall dye eternally . quer. whether the sufferings of christ now in his saints , be all the satisfaction that is made to , or which the justice of god looks for , for sins past , present and to come ? ans. there thou blasphemer askes thou knowes not wha● ; is not christ the same now as ever , and is not the sufferings of christ satisfactory where ever ? what wilt thou have to satisfie , if the sufferings of christ do not satisfie , let all people take notice what a blasphemer thou art , or what they can learn of such a one as thee , who knowes neither the justice of god , nor the sufferings of christ in his saints . quer. whether was not that body of jesus which consisted of flesh , blood and bone , and which was offered upon the crosse at jerusalem , the one and onely sacrifice for sin god accepted , and to which alone exclusively the saints before under the law , and the saints since under the gospel , did and do look to be justified by , without any other works . answ. here again thou art replying thy former sottish queries , which rises out of thy dark mind , concerning the body of jesus , as the devill did about the body of moses ; let thy mouth be stopt here , for the body of jesus thou knowes not , nor what it consists on ; and the offering of it up thou knowes nothing of , but what thou knowes and heares by the outward letter , that it was offered up at jerusalem ; and the sacrifice for sin thou knowes not , and thou art none of the saints , neither under the law , nor under the gospell , but art without in the world , in the broad way , blind leading the blind into the ditch ; and for thee the body of christ is no satisfaction ; and thou reprobate , what hast thou to do to talk of believing , for that is the condition of the saints , they do believe and are justified , and their works thou knowes not , thou disobedient one , upon whom god will render vengeance in flaming fire . quer. whether there be not another righteousness by which the saints are justified in the sight of god , than that which christ works in them and by them ? answ. there thou accursed art made manifest , who preaches another gospell , and would have another righteousnesse than that of christ , here thou beast to whom the plagues of god is due , and upon whom his wrath must be accomplished , here thou hast made thy self manifest , thou who would have another righteousnesse than the righteousnesse of christ , which he works in the saints and by them , and so thou would be justified and live in thy sin , but thou art shut out from god for ever ; and we witnesse justification by faith , and the just shall live by his faith . quer. whether doth sanctification or justification in order antecede holinesse of life or justification by faith go before , or whether doth not god love man , ere man loved god ? answ. here thou dark blinde hypocrite hath shut thy self out from the knowledge of god in any measure , oh that ever people should be so blinde as to look for to learn any thing at such a one as thee but sin and filthinesse ; and what hast thou been teaching them all this while , that neither knowes sanctification nor justification yet , but art querying whether goes before , let all people judge if thou be not a teacher of lasciviousnesse , sin and uncleannesse , and how darest thou mention a holy life , or justification by faith ? which knowes neither justification nor sanctification . and thee , man , which art cain , god doth not love nor accept thee nor thy sacrifice , and for justification by faith thou knowes nothing of it , which we own and witnesse , 〈…〉 doth not love god ▪ quer. whether the justice of god be not fully satisfied for all the sins of the elect , ●re christ appear to their souls , or holinesse appear in their lives ? ans. here ●hou full of all subtil●y a●t comprehended , and with the light of christ thou art seen , and with the life judged and condemned , who would say sin to the charge of the elect , when the scripture saith , vvho shall ●ay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? it is god that justifieth , who shall condemn ? the soul that sinneth shall die . thou sorcerer , doth the elect of god ●in ? shall the elect dye ? to that in thy conscience i speak ? quer. vvhether the holy lives , or holy works of the saints be not excluded from the act of justification , from the guilt of sin ? ans. thou dead beast hath made it manifest , that thou art a stranger from the life of god , and is excluded from the holy life of the saints and their works , who art que●ying whether this be not excluded from justification : oh that ever thou should open thy mouth , or take upon thee to speak of the scripture ; doth not the apostle say , pet. . . for as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things , as silver and gold , from your vain conversation , but with the precious blood of christ , as of a lamb without blemish and without spot , who verily was ordained before the foundation of the world was , but was manifest in these last times for you , who by him do believe in god , that raised him up from the dead ? now let all people read this chapter , and try thee , who knowes nothing of jesus christ , but as thou hast heard of him , that he was crucified at ierusalem , and so thou art unredeemed from thy vain conversation , and so art not justified before god , nor never shall be , but those that can witnesse redemption by the precious blood of jesus christ , as all the saints of god do , are justified ; and by the same that they are justified thou art condemned into the lake for ever . quer. vvhether is that righteousness which is wrought by the saints every way answerable to the justice of god ? ans. there again thy blindnesse is made manifest ; is there any righteousness but that of jesus christ , and is not that every way answerable to the justice of god ▪ but such polluted filthy beasts as thou would have another righteousnesse , as thou ▪ speaks plainly in thy ninth querie , but all thy righteousnesse we deny , and the righteousnesse of jesus christ we own and witnesse , whose righteousnesse shall be revealed upon thee in flames of fire . quer. vvhether none be accounted righteous in gods sight , in whom there is any corruption , or failing , or who do not fulfill the law , and answer every demand of justice ? ans. here thou polluted beast hath made it manifest what thou hast been driving at all this while in thy queries , which is , that thou would have corruption and filthines to be accounted righteous in gods sight , that so thou might lye and wallow in thy sins & filthinesse , but iohn saith , that he that commits sin is of the divell : for the divell sinneth from the beginning , and for this purpose the son of god was made manifest , that he might destroy the works of the divell , and thou man of sin would have it to stand , but those that loves god keeps his commandements , and they are not grievous ; and god doth not accept anywhere there is any failing , or who do not fulfill the law , and answer every demand of justice , and he doth reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished , pet. . and chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleannesse , and there thou art . quer. vvhether a soul be justified before god by the non-imputation of sin , and the imputation of the righteousness of the person of christ to his faith , or by a righteousness wrought by christ in the person justified or to be justified . ans. here stop thy mouth thou sorcerer , which art gathering up here a heap of confusion , which is fit for nothing but to be turned with thee into the bottomlesse pit , from whence it comes , wherein thou talkes of imputation and non-imputation , and of a person justified , and to be justified ; thy language is of aegyt , and in the mystery of iniquity , thou speaks it , which is condemned into the lake of perdition by the light of christ , and in the light thou and it art seen and comprehended ; and as i told thee before , i own no righteousnesse but what is of christ , and wrought by thee , which righteousnesse shall confound thee and all thy unrighteousnesse and conjuration , and the same that justifies us shall condemn thee eternally . quer. vvhether christ be in his saints in respect of that nature wherein he suffered at jerusalem ? ans. here thou enemy of christ would know how the saints injoy christ here , the scripture is fulfilled upon thee , the light shines in darknesse , and darknesse comprehends it not , when thou comes to own thy condemnation , the light in thy conscience it will let thee see thy evill deeds , it will lead thee up to christ from whence it comes , and then thou wilt know that nature that he suffered in ; but now thou art in that nature that iudas was in that betrayed him , and that they were in that crucified him . quer. how , and after what manner christ , who in respect of his divine nature is infinite and in all places , may be said to be in a saint , and not in reprobate ? ans. what hast thou to do to qu●rie after the divine nature , who art the naturall man , that knowes nothing of god , but what thou knowes naturally as a bruite beast , and knowes not the things that be of god , because they are spiritually discerned ▪ and the manner of christs divine nature , which is infinite , is hid from thy eyes , for of that eye that thou should see that with thou art blinde , and the manner of his being in a saint thou knowes not , who art a reprobate , and thou shalt find him to be thine eternall condemnation . quer. vvhether doth christ now in these dayes assume or take upon him the form of a servant , and the seed of abraham , that is our flesh : and whether doth not this assumption cause such a perfection of the godhead and the manhood , as that both of them are united together into one person ? ans. o thou dark beast and conjurer , who art querying with thy conjured words , that which thou knowes nothing of , and which is out of thy reach and comprehension ; thou blasphemer , dost thou limit christ to dayes , in taking upon him the form of a servant , and the seed of abraham ? is not he the same now as ever he was ? and for the union of the god-head and manhood , as thou calls it , let thy mouth be stopt , for with thee god nor none of his children hath any union , for god ha●h put an utter enmity , betwixt thy seed , thou serpent , and the seed of the woman , and the perfect union with christ we witnesse , who is the same to day , yesterday and for ever , and therefore are we separate from thee and thy generation . quer. vvhether is christ now conversant upon earth , amongst men , since his ascension , as he was before , and in those times wherein the apostles lived ? ans. in thy queries thy speech bewrayes thee , thy language is the language of aegypt , for in it thou makes it clearly manifest , that thou knowes not christ at all , not in the least measure , for where the first principle of truth is made manifest , it is the same that ever was , and never changes ; and thou askes whether christ be now conversant upon earth amongst men since his ascension , as he was in the apostles time ▪ dost thou know what thou askes ? did he not appear to the apostles since his ascension , in the most glorious manner that ever thou read ; and is he not the same now as he was then ? what would thou make of him , thou dark sottish beast ) such a one as thy self , who would be pleading for darknesse and ignorance of god , but praise and glory to him who hath discovered thee and all such deceivvers as thou art . quer. vvhether did not christ dwell among his saints , after another and more visible manner than now he dwels in his saints ? ans. there again thou hast shewed thy ignorance of the scripture , and for thy word visible , he is not , nor never was visible to thee , nor to thy generation , for those that did professe the scriptures , as thou and thy generation doth , crucified him , and said he was of the devill , as thou , and such as thou art doth now ; thou blasphemer , where hast thou a scripture that saith , that christ would dwell in his saints after another manner ? did he not say , it is expedient for you that i go away , and i go and prepare a place for you , and i will come again and receive you unto my self , that where i am there you may be also ; and ye have heard how i have said i go away and come again unto you , and if ye loved me , ye would rejoice , because i go unto the father ; and christ jesus saith in the . iohn . verily , verily i say unto you , he that believeth on me , the works that i do , he shall do also , and greater works than these , because i go to the father : but all these scriptures is hid from thy eyes , and thou art one of those that isaiah prophesied on ; and that scripture is fulfilled on thee which saith , he hath blinded their eyes , and hardened their heart , that they should not see with their eyes , nor understand with their hearts : now blessed be the lord that hath discovered thee , and such blind guides as thou art . so we have answered thy queries in the eternall light and life of god , and we have given judgement upon thee and them , which thou shalt eternally witnesse , without roving or wandring , but thou who art out of the light art roving , and wandring and stumbling in darknesse , who hath put forth these stumbling ▪ queries , which we have answered lovingly and plainly , and in the scripture language and termes , and with the eternall light and life of god , set thee in thy own place , which thou shalt eternally witnesse . these are matters of great concernment , and if you refuse to answer them in writing , spare your tongues and spare your papers , for i will henceforth neither hear the one , nor read the other . ans. thou saith , these are matters of great concernment ; we see that that which makes thee manifest , and such as thou art , and which layes thee open to poor ignorant people , which is deceived by thee and led into the ditch , and their souls kept in death by thee , to make this manifest is of great concernment , as these dark black stumbling queries , and thy conjured words hath done ▪ which thou hast no scripture for , as ambiguity , efficacy , exclusively , antecede , and non-imputation , assume , and assumption : now let all people read and consider what they do that holds such as thee up , who is shut out from god , and shut out from the saints life and language , and art shut out of the scriptures , though thou makes a trade of them for mony , and deceives poor people , but thou knowes nothing of the life and power that gave them forth ; so thou art to be condemned with the light , and with the life which gave forth the scripture . let all people read deuteronomie . from the . verse to the . there the priests and the levites which was ordained of god ; was to have no inheritance among the people , but the lord was their inheritance , and they were to have it of that which was offered up to the lord , and this is a figure of the everlasting priesthood , which ministers out of the everlasting treasure ; and the lord god commanded israel , that not to do as they did when they came into the land , nor to go after their abominations , as you may see , but gave israel their land to possesse , that did hearken unto such as the lord had not sent , which was abomination to him , and the lord saith to israel , thou shalt be perfect with the lord thy god , and in the . verse the lord thy god will raise unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee , of thy brethren like unto me , unto him shall ye hearken ; and so to the end of the chapter , he that hath an eye may see , and the lord is the same that he was , and he will not suffer the abominations that is committed in this land , but is discovering the abomination of it ; a horrible and a filthy thing is committed , which ieremiah cryed against , covetous men preach , drunkards preach , swearers preach , lyars preach , strikers preach , and proud men preach : oh , wonderfull , where is your eyes ? try your priests by the scriptures , see if they be not found in the same generation that all the false prophets and the deceivers were in which the true prophets of god cryed against , and discovered , and in the steps of the scribes and pharisees , that christ cryed w● against ; and see if they be not the antichrists and the deceivers which are entered into the world , which iohn speaks of , which cannot confesse christ come in the flesh ; but transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrine of christ , so hath not god , neither knowes him ; but preaches for sin , and against perfection , and denyes the light which enlightens every one that comes into the world , and so keeps people in blindnesse and ignorance , and out of the knowledge of god , and never any that followes them shall ever come to the knowledge of the true and living god , therefore all people see where you are , and minde the light in your consciences , which is pure , and which testifieth against all sin , and it will let you see all your blinde guides which deceives you , to be in sin , and ignorant of god ; for they deny that which should make him manifest , therefore beware what you hold up , and give over going after them , to that in your consciences i speak , which shall witnesse me eternally to speak the truth , if you obey it , and shall condemn you eternally , if you disobey it . these blind guides that are in this land , denies the prophets which moses wrote of , which is the substance of the priesthood , which was before , and here they are found in the same generation , in the sorcery and in the witchcraft , which the lord commanded should be put out of the land , where the children of israel went to possesse . answers to several other subtil queries put forth by one iohn reeve who lives in the city of london , who cals himself the last messenger and witnesse unto the true god , but is found a lyar , and a perverter of the right way of god . a certain writing is come to our hand , called an epistle from the mighty jehovah , or jesus the onely lord , and god of the elect israelites , from one , whose name is subscribed iohn reeve pilgrim , who cals himself the last messenger , and witnesse unto the true god , unto which , for the sake of the simple , we , ( as one spirit ) are moved of the lord of heaven and earth to write something in answer , that so his folly may be made manifest , and his ignorance and blasphemy laid open , unto the simple hearted , who have been long deceived by such through their false voice , lo here , and lo there ; friend , to thee , who hath subscribed this writing , who cals thy self the last messenger , and witnesse unto the true god , i answer , the lord of hosts , and god of the elect israelites , doth not accept thy testimony and witnesse ; for thy spirit is made manifest not to be the spirit which came from god , and which dwels with god , which bears true witnesse unto god , but the spirit which is driven out from the presence of god into the creation , and into the visible world , and that is the living spirit , and bears not true witnesse unto the true god , but is a spirit which beares witnesse to the imaginations of thy own heart , which looks upon , and declares the living god , as if he were carnall , and a creature-like substance ; and here the scripture is fulfilled upon thee , thou thinks he is altogether such a one as thy self ; and for the true god thou art no messenger , nor hast received any message from him , for thy spirit is known , and he never delivered his message unto it in any generation , but kept his secret sealed up from it ; and friend , here i charge thee in the presence of the true spiritual god , that thou be-lies the lord of hosts , who sayes thy epistle is from him , thou uses thy tongue , and saith , the lord saith , when , saith the lord ? i have not spoken unto thee ; & of that generation thou art which ieremiah cryed against ; and therefore let all flesh be silent before the lord , and call not thy own imaginations his word , but thou who hast a dream , tell thy dream for a dream , and he that hath the word of the lord , let him speak it faithfully ; and though thou call thy self the last messenger , and witnesse unto the true god , yet i say unto thee , verily the lord hath a witness which was before thee , which hath been slain in the streets of the great city , which the lord will bring forth after thee , which will bear true witnesse of the true god , & against thee , and thou who hast been alive , shall be judged by him which hath laid slain , & he will eternally condemn thy testimony and message ; friend in the light of christ , which hath lightened every one that comes into the world , thou art comprehended , and seen , thy beginning , thy time , and thy end , and with it thy testimony and message is denyed , for thy testimony is such , and if thou swear the lord lives , thou swore falsly , and further , thou sayes , by inspiration of the holy spirit thou was moved to present this epistle : i answer , the language of the holy spirit is like it self , pure and spirituall , but thy language is carnall and sensuall , and so is thy spirit ; the saints which spake by the inspiration and moving of the spirit , cursed not that which god had blessed , as thou dost , neither did they say the elect was defiled as thou dost , neither did they speak of god as a carnall substance , as thou dost , but said that god was a spirit , and here be thou a witnesse against thy self , that thou speaks not by the inspiration and moving of the holy spirit , but speaks thy imaginations , and lies in the name of the lord ; and whereas thou sayest in this confused age , there hath appeared variety of spirits pretending to be sent by the everlasting god , yet they are at war with all their power to overthrow one another , that their own opinions may bear rule ; i answer , among the many pretenders thou speaks of , thou art one ; and it is true , you are at war with all your power endeavouring to overthrow one another , that your own opinions may bear rule , and though there be among you variety of opinions , yet by one spirit you act , for the kingdome of the devil is but one , and yet divided , and it is at war with it self , and therefore it cannot stand , and you cannot overthrow one another , but one is appearing to overthrow you all , and all your opinions , for all you pretenders are made manifest by your fruits , and thereby men may try you , for nothing is to be gathered from you but opinions and ayery imaginations , some of you speaking of a god , and christ afarre off , to believe in , others of you speaking of a god and of a christ within , and afarre off to believe in , thus you feed people by your own imaginations , and some of you pretends revelation , others of you denying revelation , and thus you strive to set up your own opinion , but you live all in one nature , and are of one generation , and he that walks in the light sees you all , and comprehends you all , and judges all your opinions , and are redeemed out of all your vain im●dgination into the life of god , acting and speaking as the spirit acts and speaks , and seeks to exalt christ , and him to bear rule , that all opinions may be by him thrown down , and that by him people may be brought out of a confused age , into the land of r●st , and peace , and righteousnesse to serve the true spiritual god , in the spirit , and by the spirit of his own son ; and further , thou sayes , some there are takes upon them to speak of a god , and of a christ in the invisible heavens , above the starres ; but are uncapable to demonstrate how christ by his spirituall word lives in mens hearts , and how he reigneth visibly in glory with his elect angels : i answer , there are not some but many , which lives in , and speaks forth their own imaginations , upon god and christ , and one of them thou art , thy spirit is tryed , god who is a spirit , dwels in the spirit of his son , even in the high and holy place , and with him also who is of a contrite spirit , and trembleth at his word ; but this by thy vulterous eye is not seen , neither can any demonstrate how christ dwels in the heart ▪ but he who witnesseth it through death , and where he reigns his glory is with him , and his elect angels , this i witnesse , but to thy carnall eye it is invisible , and by thy carnall wisdome he can never be known , christ and his spirituall word is not to be divided , though thy sensuall spirit would divide them , but by the flaming sword thou that speaks art divided from both , and shalt know neither but to thy condemnation ; and further thou sayest , others there are which speaks of an eternall spirit , or christ onely in the consciences of men , as if there were no creator ●● christ at all visibly reigning upon his throne of immortall glory ; i answer , they who talke of an eternal spirit , or christ in the conscience by hear say , o●●● other mens words , without ( as thou dost ) and doth not in life and power witnesse it , from the father within , made manifest , such are denyed by them who witnesse the eternall spirit dwelling with the contrite heart , which spirit is the creator which dwels also in the high and holy place , and reigns upon his throne for ever , and who do in power witnesse this , sees and judges all y●ur carnall imaginations , and conceptions of the living god in your carnall minds , where he dwels shall no unclean thing enter , but is without to be troden in the wine-presse of his wrath for ever and ever , and by him shall thy carnall conceptions be consumed , even by the breath of his mouth , for he is eternall , and his throne is eternall , and by the carnall eye shall never be seen ; and further thou sayest , there are , who through unbelief that ever any living creature had a beginning , they affirm there is no god or christ at all , but perishing nature , of this sort are innumerable , witnesse the lives and conversations of people every where ; i answer , all who do witnesse the eternall spirit made manifest , to rule and guide all such , doth deny and declare aagainst , for nothing was without beginning but the eternall word , which was the beginning of all things , and which will be the end of all things , even the destruction of the wicked , and the salvation of them that believe , who are born of the immortall seed , and redeemed out of the perishing nature into the image of god , and such do set to seal there is a god , who will reward every one according to his works , and beares witnesse against them , who in their lives and conversations denies god , as all do who do not witnesse the eternall spirit of christ ruling in the consciences , but talkes of a god in imagination at a distance , and such are innumerable , and saith in their heart , there is no god , and such are the fools the scripture speaks of , and whereas thou beseeches to consider of these ensuing particulars ; i answer , they are considered , and by them thy ignorance is made manifest , and thy folly disclosed , and thy blasphemy , who cals thy self the last witnesse . quer. in thy first particular thou queries , whether these men were sort forth by the eternall spirit to preach , which in the least cannot demonstrate what the onely true god is in himself ; and how he is a distinct being from all living creatures , and how he reigns in the elect by a created word , voice of spirituall motion onely . answ. those men were not sent forth by the eternall spirit to preach , who have not received it , and such knowes not god , what he is , no● where he is , but in their imaginations imagines him to be like a creature , by being i● a creature by place or habitation , god is a spirit , and he is not distinct from living creatures , for in him living creatures lives , moves , and hath their beings , and he is not far from them , nor distinct from them as he spake , who was sent by the eternall spirit to preach , he reigns in the elect not by a created word , voice , or a created spirituall motion , for the word which lives in the elect , from which voice and motion proceeds , is not created , but is uncreated , even as god is uncreated , for god is that word , and here thy ignorance appears , by calling the word which lives in the elect a created word , or voice , or motions , and here be a witnesse against thy self that thou speaks from darknesse , and not from light , which darknesse cannot comprehend the shining of the light , and this discovers thee more to be a false witnesse , and not the true witnesse of god , and therefore thy portion must be portion of false witnesses , read what it is . . quer. in thy second particular thou queries , is not this an infallible demonstration to men , that a man is sent forth by the eternall spirit , if he have received a gift from the holy ghost , to demonstrate what the true creator was in his own distinct essences , nature and glory , from all eternity in time , and to all eternity , and wherein elect men and angels differ in their natures , and glory , distinct from their creator in their persons . answ. he that hath not received a gift from the holy ghost in some measure , is not sent forth by the eternall spirit , or god of all truth , this is infallible , and such knowes not what the creator is , but by imagination , and carnall conceptions of him , and such in the light of christ is seen , and by it judged , and among such thou art , to that in thy conscience i speak , which will witnesse me , he that hath received the holy ghost , turnes people from the power of satan to the power of god , and knowes the creator , and the dwelling of him in the heart , for as the scripture saith , the word is nigh , but let all flesh be silent , he who is in time , knowes not him which was before time , and shall be when time shall be no more ; he who knows the creator which inhabiteth eternity , is redeemed out of time , into the habitation of the almighty , but this to thy dark minde and spirit is unknown , if ever thou know it , it must be through death , the nature and glory of the elect differs not from the nature and glory of the creator , for the elect are one with the creator , in his nature enjoying his glory , which was from eternity unto eternity , he that reads let him understand , thy word distinct essence , i deny , for the elect is not distinct from the creator , but lives by the dwelling of the son in him , and with the son the father dwels also , if thou hast an ear , thou mayest hear . quer. in thy third particular thou queries , what that angelicall serpent was in his creation , which the scripture speaks of , and how he came to be cast out of his glory , and how he overcame innocent eve , and how he entered into her wombe , and changed her pure seed into his nature of unclean reason ? and thou askes , what think you , was not that man cain the first murdering , lying devill that ever was ? and is there any devill but proud , vain-glorions , unmercifull men and women ? ans. that same which speaks in thee is that same serpent which the scripture speaks of , and if thou have the spirit of moses , thou knowes what he was in the creation ; for moses saw his creation by that spirit which was before he was , and if thou know his creation in thy self , then thou may know him without thee , but yet he lies under his vail deceiving thee , and is not deceived by thee ; and by the same which thou lives in he was cast out of his glory , even disobedience , and he overcame inocent eve even as he overcomes thee , by promising what he fulfilled not , and by presenting that which was visible , and so her minde was led out , as thine is , and by her consenting , he entered and got power , and set up his habitation , which is now standing in thee , and so she became the likenesse of himself , her minde and lust st●ayed into the visibles , out from the creator who is invisible , and spirituall , and she now lives under the curse , and brings forth cursed children , such as thou art who puts forth these queries , and this child was begotten by him who deceived her , and he is the father and prince of all you , who are wells without water , clouds without rain , and wandering starres having no habitations in the heavens , the blackness of darknesse is reserved unto you for ever , ye who speaks great swelling words of vanity ( that ye are the last witnesses and messengers , &c. ) but you your selves are servants of corruption , and to the last part of thy querie : i answer , before cain who is a lying devill was a child , he was a father , and if thou hast an ear , thou mayest hear , the proud , vain-glorious , unmercifull men and women , who bears his image must with him be tormented in the lake which burneth ( by the kindling of the breath of the almighty ) for ever and ever ; and here thou art answered , though not to the feeding of thy wisdome , but in the light by which thou art comprehended , which light will eternally condemn thee who hates it . quer. thou queries what condition adam was formed in , and how he came to fall from his estate , and what sin it was they committed ( adam and eve ) and whereby the elect and reprobate are defiled . ans. adam was created in the image of god , and god breathed into him the breath of life , and he became a living soul , but eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evill , therein he turned from the command of god and did dye , if thou hast an ear thou mayest hear , and thou that queries hast eaten of that tree , and thou shalt never know in what condition he was created in , but through the death : for a sword is set at edens gate to keep the tree of life , which will cut thee down , before ever thou know or can witnesse his estate , and as for the elect being defiled , here thou makest thy self manifest , that thou never knew what the elect was , for the elect is born of god , and he that is born of god sins not , and the promises of god are to the elect , and election obtains it , and the elect was never defiled : if thou hast an ear thou mayest hear , that which is defiled shall not enter into the holy city , and here thou hast manifest thy ignorance , and art that reprobate thou speaks , which is ordained of old for condemnation , which is the transgresser which is cast out , thou hast no communion with the elect , for thou art defiled and art without the gate , to be trodden in the wine-presse . quer. what that heavenly glory is , and where it is that the elect wheat of christ shall eternally enjoy , who are the seed of adam , and not of cain ? answ. what that glory which the elect which thou spoke of in thy fourth querie shal inherit which was and is defiled , it is to be in hell , in utter darknesse for ever and ever , where all the unclean are , and thou would know where it is , it is without the gate of the city , among the dogs and whoremongers , and lyars , and deceivers , and whatsoever is defiled shall be trodden in the wine-presse of the wrath of god for ever and ever , where is weeping , wailing , and gnashing of teeth . but as for the elect wheat of christ , which thou sayest is the children of adam , thou speakest thou knowes not what , the first man is of the earth earthly , and he begate his image , and that which is earthly shall never inherit , but are to have their portion with cain , where thou art that hath uncovered thy nakednesse , but the elect and the wheat shall be gathered into the barn , and they are not , nor ever were they defiled , but shall reign with the lamb in the new jerusalem for ever and ever , where no unclean thing can enter , nor nothing that destroyes or defiles in that holy mountain of the lord , if thou have an ear thou may hear . quer. vvhat that painfull and shamefull death in utter darknesse , and where it is , that is reserved for the reprobate , who are the seed of cain , and not of adam , or blessed abr●ham . answ. thou that queries shalt surely know , it is tophet , prepared of old even for the king , the burning of it is as fire , the breath of the lord doth kindle it , it shall be destruction for ever and ever , to that which hath given forth these queries , and it is to be separated from god for ever among all idolaters , and adulterers , and liars , the unbelieving , the abominable , and the fearful , in the lake of fire ▪ where the worm dieth not , nor the fire goeth not out ; as for adam thou knows nothing of him ; the first birth that he begate was cain , who slew his brother , who hath his portion with cain , and not with abraham , the promise was not to the transgresser , nor to adam who eat of the tree of knowledge , the promise came upon ; in the day thou eatest thou shalt dye , he was driven from the presence of the lord into the earth in the curse , the promise was to abraham , in isaack is the blessing , not in ishmael ; and here thou sh●ws thy ignorance , but it is but like the former , when thou joynes the elect and reprobate together , light and darknesse , and in babylon thou art , but in that which was before babylon was , thou art seen , and as for those dark spirits thou ●peaks of , who minde nothing but their lusts , condemning the glorious things of eternity , because their carnall reason cannot comprehend them : see at home , for in the light of christ thou art seen , that thou knowes nothing of eternity , but by thy dark imaginations , and naturally as a bruite , to the light of christ in thy conscience i speak , which will let thee see it is so . quer. are there not deceived persons , and utterly ignorant of the true god , who judge men and women in darknesse , if they a●k them questions about the needfull things of eternity : is it not because they went before they were sent , and so are of a bitter spirit for want of spirituall light to satisfie the ●ender christian querier . ans. all who dwell not in this light , which is pure and eternall , are ignorant of god , and never knew god , such judging shall be judged , and by the light which sees and comprehends all darknesse thou art seen , but the spirituall man judgeth all things , and he is judged of none , and all judgement is committed to the son , and where he i●made manifest he speaks , and judgeth righteously , and those men and women who would be asking questions of eternity , and never came to the first principle to be guided by it , the light which leads to eternity , all such men and women are in darknesse , and that minde which is in the earth and in the naturals shall never know ; and therefore they are judged to be in darknesse , and darknesse cannot comprehend the light , christ and his disciples answered and judged that spirit which would have had a sign ; and called them adulterers , and which spirit we witnesse to the praise of god ; and to thee that put forth the queries , i speak to thee in the presence of god , whether thou put them forth in simplicity and art ignorant , or would know , or in the pride of thy heart , and subtilty to tempt , the light of christ will let thee see , but thou art rich and full , therefore thou must be sent empty away , all who queries from that nature that would know , but never come to obedience , that is to be judged , & judgment must thou witness , and for a bitter spirit of envy that shall stand for thy self , and that thou wants spiritual light is made manifest , which curses that which god hath blessed , as i have seen under thy own hand , far remote from this city , and that thou hast cursed them soul and body to all eternity , which thou never heard nor saw , let shame strike thee in the face , and stop thy mouth , for thou cannot put a difference betwixt the precious and the vile , but curses thou knows not what , and speaks to that thou knows not : but as for them who have a desire to know the way to the father , we are ready to give an answer , and to impart of the gift we have received , and doth not break a bruised reed , but the fat we f●ed with judgement , and there thou art answered . quer. it is not an infallible demonstration unto them who have a discerning spirit , that tha● man hath no commission from the true spirit to preach or speak to a people , when for fear of his ignorance being discovered , or for fear of losing his hearers , he shall counsell them to strike close to the word of god , or to hearken to the light within them in their consciences , without what that is in the conscience , or what will be the issue of it , if men be obedient to it , or disobedient to it : and to beware of false prophets , and not thinking in the least himself to be that false prophet , and thus borrowing scripture language which we are the true messengers of the gospel , doth he not in his power hinder his hearers from reading the glorious things revealed unto , the two last witnesses , and so thou saith , it is clear that the spirit is not in them which was in paul , who gave them leave to try all . ans. here thy infallible demonstration is made manifest to be fallible and lying , when thou laies that down to be a sign of them that have no commission from the spirit , and not to have the spirit , because they exhort them to cleave close to the word of god , and to minde the light which shines into the conscience of every man , which is the light of christ ; here thy spirit is tryed , that thou hast not the same commission as they had , who spoke forth the scripture , and so thou preaches another gospel , for the word of god endures for ever , and by the word which is eternall , and which was in the beginning , who tryes all things , who searches all things , comprehends all things , and judges all things , he that cleaves not close unto , that builds upon another foundation ; and by the word which endures for ever , thou art seen , not to have that word , neither knowes what , nor where it is , neither hath cleaved to it , and so art raced out from the life , from the foundation , and the apostle who had his commission not from man , nor by man , he exhorted those he had preached to and wrote to , to take heed to the sure word of prophesie , as unto a light that shined in a dark place , and to wait in it , till the day did dawn , and the day star did arise ; and for distinguishing of that in the conscience what it is , he that is not separate from the darknesse knows not how to do it . but this i say unto thee , as we declare unto all , the light which shines into the conscience is the light of christ which he hath enlightned every one withall , and it is spirituall like himself , and eternall , and it leads out of sin , and declares against all iniquity , and he that comes to own it , and to be guided by it , it leads out of sin to know the crosse of christ , which is a mistery to thee , and it leads to the eternall word , which was in the beginning before sin was , and it will judge all thy imaginations and vain conceivings , and it leads to the inheritance incorruptible out of corruptible ; if thou have an ear to hear , thou may hear , it is that which will let thee see thy vain frothy imaginations , which thou hath of god , and will condemn all thy vain imaginations , and hating it , it will be thy condemnation , and there is the issue of it , and all such as steals other mens words , and the true prophets words , and never knew the life that was in them , all such we deny , and shut them up within utter darknesse , where they , thou and both are , and for the glorious things that thou and thy partner , which call your selves the two last witnesses , it is manifest that your mysteries are as in thy book , and thy queries , where thou puts elect and reprobate together , and as for tryall of spirits , we give liberty and exhort all that may try , and we direct them to that to try by , which is is infallible and eternall , whereby they may see and comprehend thee and all who have not the spirit . but that they should try , who hath nothing to try with , let all such be silent for ever , for none understands the spirit but the spirit with which we see thee , and all who stands in their imaginations ignorant of , therefore stop thy mouth in the dust , and be silent . quer. doth not they that speak to a people that declares against all appearances , which are contrary to his way , discover himself unto a true discerning spirit , not to be of the lord , unlesse they can demonstrate a spirituall commission that he hath received from heaven , by voice of words through the glorious mouth of the lord , so that no mortall man can disprove him , though few for want of understanding receive him . ans. the way that leads to the father is but one , which is christ , and he that declares from him , made manifest in him , declares against all sects , and opinions , and that which thou cals appearances , and the way is one , and the tru●h one , where there is no rent nor division , and he that dwels in the life hath discerning , and he that witnesses the annointing discernes , he is able to judge and discern , and in that thou art seen , who would sit on the throne , but thou must come down and lick the dust , dust is the serpents meat , and they who had their commission from god , and hath their commission from god , now they were made manifest to every mans conscience in the sight of god , and this we witnesse , this the scripture witnesseth , and he that believes hath the witnesse in himself , and the father bears witnesse , and they witnesse the voice of the lord , which is spirituall speaking to them , and they declare from that which is spirituall to the consciences of gainsayers , and this is witnessed ; but thy voice of words is carnal , and is denyed , and who art thou made manifest unto , that which is mortal cannot discern and disprove thee , but that which is immortal can , and they who are guided by the immortall denies thee , and will receive none of thy testimony , because it is not the same which the holy men of god witnessed , and doth now witnesse , which voice shakes the wildernesse , and rents the rocks , and makes the earth to reel to and fro , but to thee this is a mystery and sealed . quer. again he that speaketh of an invisible spirituall god , or christ living in the consciences or spirit of men , thou sayeth , he questions the truth of all the scripture records concerning the life , death , and resurrection , and aseension of the blessed body of christ into the throne of his immortall glory ; and doth he not que●●ion whether the consciences of the saints being sprinkled with the blood of jesus , which died without the g●●es of jerusalem , are purified from the pollution of the flesh and spirit , doth he not question the resurrection of the souls and bodies out of the eat●h at the last day . ans. here again , thou hast made thy sha●e and thy ignorance manifest and knows not so much as the letter of he scripture , paul in apostle of jesus ch●ist , notby the will of man , and minister of the everlasting god , he witnessed the son of god revealed in him , and he ●●i● , kn●w ye 〈…〉 christ ●s in you , or else you are rep●●●ates , and ●h●i●t is no● divided , and he tha● is joyned to the lord is ●●e spirit , and 〈◊〉 my father are one , ●●d w●●●e christ dwells the father dwells , and if thou have ●● e●● to hear ●hou may h●●● , and if the ●●●e spirit be not in you that raised christ 〈…〉 he ●●●d , you are 〈…〉 , and he that declared these things speak of a spi●i●ua●l christ , and an invi 〈…〉 god , and who ●●all ascend up to heaven , the word is nigh , in thy mo●t●● and 〈◊〉 heart , and this is the same christ that suffered without the ga●e at jerusalem , and no other wh●●h paul travelled till he was born in them , if thou have an ear th●u may hear , and the apost●● did not question the scripture records , for they spoke it and recorded it , and th●y witnessed the life of christ , and his death , and resu●rection , and a●c●nsion , and witnessed him ascended above thrones , and dominions , and to sit at the right hand of the father , and witnesse the same christ made manifest in us , and his resurrection , not because paul said so , we have seen it , and are witnesses of it , the same that ever was , the same that did ascend , the same did ascend ; this is a riddle unto thee , and seven seals is upon it , and thou that queries shall never see them opened , and they who had christ in them , and the father , the son supping with them , they had their conscience sprinkled , and none else for his bloud thou knows not , and so i say unto thee , thou art not sprinkled , nor thy conscience purified from dead works , and they who know christ in them , and no more after the flesh come to know his resurrection , he is the resurrection , he is the first and the last , who knows him risen , and have seen him witnesse the first day and the last , what speaks thou of a last day , that never came to the beginning , and so thy soul lies in death , and in chains , and in utter darknesse and therefore lay thy hand upon thy mouth , and see where thou ●●t , and the spirit that gave forth the scriptures thou cannot witnesse . quer. if after death there is no bodily resurrection , for the spirits of men to possesse an immortall glory to eternity , or to suffer an eternall devill like shame , according to their deeds , whether good or evill . is it not one of the vainest things in the world ▪ to discourse of god , righteousnesse , unlesse it be for earthly gain amongst men . ans. there is a resurrection both of the just and of the unjust , the just into everlasting life , and the unjust into everlasting shame and contempt , and every one shall receive according to his works , whether they be good or evill , but this a mystery hid , for none knowes it , but through death , but what knowes thou who art yet alive in sin , what shall be in the resurrection which is after death , which whoever comes to know the resurrection , knowes the e●d of all things ; therefore it is not taking their words , nor thy own imaginations , that is faith , nor if thou know christ no nearer than jerusalem , nor no nearer than above the starres , thou knowes not where , but through thy dark imaginations , this is not to christ risen from the dead , see therefore what hast thou seen in thy self : but thou art dead whiles thou lives in that nature , and at the resurrection contempt and shame will be thy portion , and turn in thy minde to that which shews thee sin , and witnesse the body and sin destroyed within , and then , and not till then , shalt thou know how it is in the resurrection . quer. thou raises a question from pauls words to the athenians , thou was before condemning them that stole other mens words , and here thou hast stolen a query , and thou askest what think you did that spiritual creator , dwell and live in the athenians consciences or did his glorious person visibly appear in the highest heavens . ans. the athenians to whom paul spoke worshipped the work of their own hands , as ●his generation doth their own imaginations , and that god whom ignorantly they worshipped at a distance , which god lived in pauls conscience , paul declared unto them , and they looked as thou dost carnally , thinking god to be carnal and at a distance , but he ●aid he , was not at a distance from every one of them , for in him they lived , moved , and had their being , and this was the god which paul preached of , which creator , we witnesse , lives in the high and holy place , and with him also that is of a humble and a contri●e spirit , and trembleth at his word . quer. and thou sayest , what think you , can there ●e any living spirit without a body , or person to display its life , in , or from , and must not the creator of necessity be a glorious personall substance , and thou sayest doth not these men that worship an in●inite spirit without any bodily f●rm , living in mens consciences , onely gl●ry in a god of their own imaginations , instead of honouring the onely lord of all life , the man jesus , yesterday , to day , and for ever ? ans. that which is not possible with men is possible with god , which god is a spirit as jesus christ saith , and a spirit hath not flesh and bone , nor a created body , but displays it self as it pleases , contrary to thy will , and the will of all men ; and thou who would by thy reason ●y the creator with a necessi●y to a personal being , are void of the knowledge of god , and led by thy corrupt reason , which shall never know god , and all those who worships god in spirit , worships an infinite spirit , which spirit inhabiteth eternity , and lives in the consciences of the saints , and this is not to glory in an imagination , but a witnessing of the same eternall truth , which he saints witnessed which spake forth the scripture , for they witnessed christ dwel●ed in them , and the same god they w●rshipped , whose temple they were , and not another , and we the same witnesse , and this to the honour of the man jesus , who was yesterday , to day , and for ever . quer. the eternall spirit , creator , and alone everlasting father , which dwels essentially in the glorified body , as our lord jesus his eternall son , and virtually reign● in all the saints , elect men and angels , be record between me and you world without ●●d , whether this epistle shall not be sent to you , and all the chosen that shall peruse it , principally for the establishing of your tender spirits upon that eternall spirituall rock jesus christ god and man in one distinct body , or person glorified , and ●●●ly honoured with all spirituall praises from elect men and angels when this world is consumed into ashes , and all time or times is swallowed up into eternity or eternities . ans. the eternall spirit , which is the everlasting father , which thou saith is essentially in the son , thy word essentially i deny , and thy voice , yet christ and the father is one , and the same spirit that dwels in the son dwels in the father which is one , i and my father is one , the same dwels in the saints , thy word virtuall i deny , the same that dwels in the father and in the son , the same dwels in the saints , not distinct nor divided , for he that hath seen the father hath seen the son , and he that hath the son hath the father also , and christ is divided , i in them , and thou in me , that they may be perfect in one , and he that is joyned to christ is one spirit , and not distinct nor separate : if thou have an ear thou may hear , and that eternall spirit , which is the father and the son , which dwels in the saints , is judge of thee , and by that spirit i judge thee , that this epistle came not from him to none of the chosen , for they who are chosen deny thy voice , and what dost thou speak of elect and angels , with whom god dwels , when in thy fourth querie thou said , they were defiled , and the holy ghost saith , he dwels with no uncleannesse , and so speaks confusion and babylons language , which is the land of thy nativity , from whence all these things have been spoken by thee , and all that shall ever be established with thy declaring , or thy epistles , shall be thrown down , for the rock shall beat thy image to pieces , and therefore leave off thy speaking of him , and of thy distinct body , and of his glory , for when he shall appear in his glory , instead of thy praises , thou shalt howl and lament , and wish the mountains to cover thee , and he who is out of time shall consume thee to ashes , who stands in time and in the airie philosophy and imagination , and thy great words eternity and eternities shall stand thee in no stead ; for that which is eternall was before thou was , and shall be when thou art brought down to the pit with all thy imaginations : and so that thou might not glory any more in thy shame , we have answered thy queries , and for the simple ones sake , that they might not be stumbled by thy stumbling queries , who dwels not in the light . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- tim. . . tit. . . pet. . . pet. . . pet. . . the universal love of god to mankind defended against the misapprehensions of some people about the doctrine of election and reprobation. written for the sake of the simple-hearted, by john everard. everard, john, of chatteris. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the universal love of god to mankind defended against the misapprehensions of some people about the doctrine of election and reprobation. written for the sake of the simple-hearted, by john everard. everard, john, of chatteris. p. printed and sold by t. sowle, next door to the meeting-house in white-hart-court in gracious-street; and at the bible in leaden-hall-street near the market, london : . reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- england -- early works to . quakers -- england -- london -- early works to . election (theology) -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the universal love of god to mankind defended , against the misapprehensions of some people about the doctrine of election and reprobation written for the sake of the simple-hearted , by john everard . london , printed and sold by t. sowle , next door to the meeting-house in white-hart-court in gracious-street ; and at the bible in leaden-hall street near the market , . the universal love of god to mankind , &c. i find many well-inclined people much stumbled about the doctrine of election and reprobation , as laid down by some , that god did , from eternity before the world began , ordain a small number for salvation ; and reprobate the most part of mankind , and so pass them by , not giving them saving grace . if it be so , that the number be so fixed , that not one can be dimished nor added ; then the prophets nor apostles , by all their labour , did not , nor could not , add one to god ; neither by preaching can any now do it : but election there is , and reprobation , but it stands in the two seeds : the lord hath sown his pure seed in the hearts of all men , and as they joyn to it , it will regenerate hem , and so make them injoyers and hairs of endless life ; but if man joyn to the reprobate seed of the serpent , then they bring death over themselves . but some will say , i have chosen you ; i say , the lord said , i sanctified thee from the womb , and ordained thee a prophet to the nations ▪ i grant the great god , in dear love , did raise up some , but it will not therefore follow , that he over did cast away any , without affording them a day of mercy : for though the lord may have raised up some in all ages , yet it was not only for their own sakes , but to call to others , and to shew them the mind of the lord , that he did not desire the death of a sinner , but he had rather they should turn from their sins and live. and , to let the world know , that he sent his dear son into the world , that all might believe , and be saved from sin by him ; he tasted death for every man ; and said the apostle , it was the will of god that all men should be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth ; and it being so declared by paul , we may conclude , that the lord , who is the fountain of love and mercy , did not decree the death of mankind against his own will. but some will say , he died only for the world of believers of the elect ? it is not proper to call the elect the world ; for christ saith , if you were of the world , the world would love you ; but i have chosen you out of the world : therefore 't is not proper to call believers , or the elect , the world. now seeing it is so clearly laid down in the holy scripture , that christ died for the sins of the whole world , and not of believers only ; then we may conclude , that if man believe in his pure spirit , a measure of it being given to every one to profit withal , all that dye not saved , must not place their destruction on the lord , nor blame him , but their own selves , for rebellion against the spirit of the lord : and so i may say , as said the prophet , why will ye dye ? o friends ! christ died , he tasted death for every man , and gave himself a ransom for all ; and he hath done much for us thereby : but he hath sent his holy spirit into our hearts , to sanctifie , wash and purifie our hearts ; so that obeying the spirit of christ , you will have a possession in the kingdom of glory , obtained for us by his dear son. now , reader , thy teachers may tell thee , that if thou hast found thy heart pricked for sin , and have been sorrowful for sin , and have felt the incomes of life to warm thy soul , then thou may'st conclude thy self in a hopeful state ; i say so too . but where is that man in the world , but the lord , at one time or other , doth prick to the heart , and bring sorrow over him ; and when he is brought low , he sees there is mercy for him , and so comfort and hope springs up in his soul. thus is man visited ; by which he , upon his death - bed , clears the lord ; and upon these experiences thou art , it may be , received a member of the church ; and so then say , all is well , christ hath paid the debt , and now the lord looks upon thee in his son : but pray , for thy poor souls sake , consider , if any man be in christ , the same is a new creature , old things are passed away , and all things are become new ; a new heart , a tender heart , a heart which fears to offend him , in every thing to love him with thy whole heart , and thy neighbour as thy self ; a heart , not only to part with ishmael , but offer up isaac , if called for ; and not to love thy own life for christ and his gospel sake . oh! if thou can'st say so , then happy art thou , if thou continue to the end thou shalt be saved . and this love of god will spring so up in thy soul , that thou wilt say with the prophet , o come to the waters of life freely : and when the spirit of the lord fills thy heart with gospel-tidings , which shall be a message of joy to all people ; then thou wilt say , the arm of the lord is not shortned , that cannot save ; but wilt cry , the salvation of the lord is come , and all flesh shall , or may see the salvation of the lord , and thou wilt not be as one that mocketh , when thou holdest forth his salvation ; but if all take thee at the word , by believing the gospel preached there is room enough in god's mercy , for the whole creation , glory to the lord in the highest : but thou may'st yet say , though all have some stirrings of god , they are so small and weak , that it cannot work that holy dread in them , not to offend the lord : look into thy own heart , and if thou find it so with thee , that it bring thee into a holy fear ; so that , having a hope of glory , thou purifie thy heart by thy hope , then the same seed which is sown in thy heart , is of one nature in all , and will work the same in all , according to the measure of the gift of christ. but thou mayst yet say , jacob have i loved , and esau have i hated : so it was not said in genesis , but in malachi . . but the elder shall serve the younger ; which , if it had related to their eternal state , it would imply esau is now in heaven serving jacob ; but it was said to jacob , thy brethren shall serve thee . but isaac blessed esau also , though jacob had the dominion for a time : but the people of edom were called in christ , as well as the seed of israel , as it is written , in thee , and in thy seed , shall all the families of the earth be blessed . these things i have wrote in the love of christ , that none may shut up the kindness of christ from man. and now , my dear friends , whom the lord hath called into his blessed work , let us go on still to preach his universal gospel freely , and set forth the glory of christ in love , in life and sound doctrine ; then , if the people will not take warning , we shall be clear ; and the lord will be our exceeding great reward . so humbly prayeth he , who desireth to walk in great lowliness of mind before the lord , john everard . finis . some queries proposed, to the monethly meeting of the quakers at aberdeen; the sixth day of june, . by robert sandilands with their answers thereto; together with some remarks thereupon. published by authority. to which is prefixed a letter from george keith, sent to the quakers in aberdeen, containing a very serious and christian expostulation with his old friends, &c. sandilands, robert. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) some queries proposed, to the monethly meeting of the quakers at aberdeen; the sixth day of june, . by robert sandilands with their answers thereto; together with some remarks thereupon. published by authority. to which is prefixed a letter from george keith, sent to the quakers in aberdeen, containing a very serious and christian expostulation with his old friends, &c. sandilands, robert. keith, george, ?- . aut [ ], p. printed by iohn forbes, printer to the city and university, aberdeen : [ ] publication date from wing. "george keith's letter" has caption title on p. . some print faded. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- scotland -- early works to . christianity -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion some queries proposed , to the monethly meeting of the quakers at aberdeen ; the sixth day of june , . by robert sandilands : with their answers thereto ; together with some remarks thereupon . published by authority . to which is prefixed a letter from george keith , sent to the quakers in aberdeen , containing a very serious and christian expostulation with his old friends , &c. gal. . . am i therefore become your enemy , because i tell you the truth . aberdeen , printed by iohn forbes , printer to the city and university . to the right honourable thomas mitchel , lord provost . bailies . alexander ragg , alexander forbes , alexander ker , alexander paton , iohn leslie , dean of gild , william crowden , thesaurer . and to the rest of the honourable council of the city of aberdeen . right honourable , the hereditary tyes i am under to the city of aberdeen , ( of which my father was recorder several years ) wherein many of my friends live , and some whereof have been honoured with the most eminent posts in the magistracy , and of which i my self am a native and burger , are so strong , that they need no new motives to raise and preserve in me , the greatest honour , and the most sincere love for the place : and ye who are the present worthy governours hereof , have surpriz'd me with such new favours and personal obligations , since my last return to your city , that nothing but a publick acknowledgment , can secure me against the reproach of ingratitude . those shelves on which , i and many well designing , but seduced christians had shipwrack'd the true faith , could not be sufficiently guarded against , nor those who are already fallen into fatal delusions recovered and restored , otherwayes , then by exposing to the impartial view of the world , the gross and vile errours , that ly couched under the mask of divine illuminations , and the palpable contradictions that are maintained by different parties of that society , which pretends to be guided and influenced in every point , by the unerring spirit of infinite wisdom . and as love to christianity and charity to the souls of others , has induced me first to propose , and then to publish the following queries and remarks , so i cannot in justice conceal your forwardness and zeal , to countenance and encourage me in vindication of the truth , and to allow what ever might be of use to me , in defence of the truth , which i have endeavoured to doe , with the greatest simplicity . and that god may strengthen you and raise up others , to be valiant for truth and holiness , shall ever be the hearty prayer of , right honourable , your most obliged and obedient servant , robert sandilands . to the christian reader . seeing , it hath graciously pleased almighty god , in his infinite mercy , to discover to me as well as many more in england , ( who for sometime had lived in communion with the people called quakers ) those many gross errours , that were maintained in print , by their chief teachers ; which nevertheless , i my self never owned , but alwayes sincerely believed the most necessary fundamental truths of christianity , profest in common by all protestants ; though i must confess i was so far misled , as to believe that more stress was to be laid on the light within , then on faith in an outward crucified jesus ; &c. i therefore judged my self bound in conscience , not only to separat from them , but also to return to this my native countrey , where i first joined with them , and there give a publick testimony to the truth , and endeavour in the strength of the lord , to satisfie my old friends and relations , that as i erred through ignorance and unbelief , never knowing nor being any way perswaded , till of late that such gross errours were owned by them , which if i had in the least suspected , i think i should never have been prevailed with to have joined with them : so i hope , that the quakers both here and else where ( who are sincere and honest hearted ) when they are made sensible of and discover the same ( which they may doe , by impartially searching , as i have done their own authentick writtings ) shall be of one mind with me , and with me also obtain mercy , so as to have reason to magnifie the infinite goodness and love of god in christ jesus our lord ; of this i conceive the more hopes , since i got the answers of the principal quakers , of the last monethly meeting at aberdeen , given to some queries proposed by me at that meeting , both which , together with some remarks on their said answers are here printed by authority of the magistrats of aberdeen , and at the desire of some of them , as well as the intreaty of my friends in this place , i have been induced to make a short narrative of what passed before the giving , in or answering the said queries . soon after my arrival at aberdeen , i had occasion to meet with some of the quakers , whom i discoursed , and more particularly a. jaffray their chief teacher in this place , and in our conferences together , i mention'd some gross passages in w. penn's books &c. but he being dissatisfied , proposed that himself and i , with some friends of each side should meet , and after these books were produced , it might be seen , whether such palpable and gross errours were vouched in them yea or not . having so soon as possible i could , got some of them , i wrot to the said a. j. desiring to know , when we should meet , in answer to which he sent me a very passionat and indiscreet letter , intirely declining the meeting ( though he himself first proposed the same ) and therein acquainted me if i had any thing to say against them , i should give it , in write or print : i therefore went to their monethly meeting , where alexander forbes of craigie and alexander patton of kinnaldie ( bailies in aberdeen ) with a great many more persons of good note were present , and there , after some short discourse , i read the queries ( as they are here printed ) of which i left a signed copie with the quakers , and gave another to bailie paton ; to which after some time i at length obtained the answers , which i have hereafter subjoined . and that it may appear how groundlesly they lay claim to the immediat and infallible illuminations of the spirit of god , which is in all times , places and persons , the same without contradiction or variation ; i have annexed some quotations out of their most approved writters , which most plainly contradict the doctrine now seemingly owned by a. j. and his friends . these passages i have here adduced are not to be looked upon , as the opinions of private authors among the quakers , but as the doctrine and principles maintained by the whole body of that people in england ; for their books are not allowed to be printed or re-printed , till first they are approved off , by the second days meeting at london , and all such books so approved off , are by an order among them , transmitted to other monethly or quarterly meetings &c. and there is none that i have made use of , have ever been rejected or publickly disapproved by them , ( so far as i know . ) one thing more i must say , which is , that as it is well known to divers in this place , that no outward prospect ever mov'd me to leave the protestant religion and join with the quakers , so i can say in the sight of almighty god , and in the sincerity of my heart , that no worldly interest induced me , now to leave their communion , but plain conviction and full perswasion of those many gross and pernicious heresies which were very clearly discovered to me in their writtings . and as i am convinced , that many sober and serious persons among them , do not believe or somuch as imagine that such unchristian doctrines were ever broached or mantained by their chief ieachers , so i heartily pray that the lord would enlighten their minds that they may both discover and acknowledge their errours and abhore them as much as i do . george keith's letter . my old friends , andrew jaffray , iohn robertson , robert gordon , iohn forbes of achortes , &c. having the occasion of the bearer , i thought fit to send you my fourth narrative , and another late book of mine called the deism of william penn , &c : which i desire you to read impartially and without prejudice . i hope ye will not be so strait as not to read them , for as ever i could and did very freely read the books of any against me , so i still can , and do readily read them . the said narrative as to the truth of the quotations , is attested by men of credit , and beside i suppose , many of the books that i have quoted in the same , ye may have by you , and some others ye may easily procure , whereby to find whether my quotations be true and just , and if you find them so to be , i hope you will calmly and seriously consider them , and compare them with the holy scriptures , which i beseech you more diligently to search , with earnest prayer to god almigty , that he would give you a good understanding , by his divine illumination , by which you will see that the chief teachers of the quakers ( whom both ye and i have in our ignorance owned for true teachers ) have taught very false doctrines , contradicting the holy scriptures ; in diverse of the great fundamentals of christianity . i shall not here expostulat with you , for your unkindness to me , uncharitableness and rash judgement against me in your letters and papers , sent up here to london against me some yeasr ago . but my prayer is to god , both for you and others thereaway , that he may give you a better understanding , and make you more charitable in judgement , both to me and others , and more humble in your own conceits . i freely own with sorrow and deep repentance that i have been injurious to you and others thereaway , not in any wordly matter , but while i was with you , and in my ignorant zeal , thinking that i did god good service , that i was any wayes instrumental to mislead and misinform you , and turn you out of the way in any of the least principle or practice of christian religion . for this i acknowledge that i am a great debtor to you , and would willingly make restitution and be at as great and greater pains to undeceive you , and bring you out of the mire , as ever i was to lead you into it , but if you refuse my offer , god ( i doubt not ) will forgive me , and not lay it to my charge , and the sin will ly at your door . i hope i can say as paul said , i have obtained mercy because i did it ignorantly . the main things wherein i charge my self to have misinformed you , and any others , either by my words or books , are , in leading you into great unchatitablene●s towards all other protestant societies , and into too high an esteem of the people called quakers , and their leaders and teachers and way of practice in diverse things , both religious and civil , and more especially to the rejecting of the holy institutions of our blessed lord , of baptism and the supper , and setting up humane institutions in room of them , as george fox his orders of womens meetings and government in church affairs , the condemning all other protestant teachers , ( though more sound in faith , and of more religious practices ) and professors of christianity , as priests of baal , and worshippers of baal , crying out against their congregations for their mixtures : whereas alas , there has been all along a greater mixture among the people called quakers , both as to unsoundness of doctrine and practices . ye your selves know how little god is worshipped with prayer and thanksgiving in the families of the quakers generally , ( very few excepted ) excusing all by pretence of mental and inward prayer , and want of divine motions to carry them forth in external acts of worship . so that to my certain knowledge ( possibly to yours also ) too many high pretenders to spirituality , among the people called quakers , who are masters of families and have wives and children and servants , yet rarely bow their bodily knees to god in their families . and set-times of prayer and thanksgiving , either for the closet or family worship have been generally laid aside . these are the chief things for which i have blamed my self , in being instrumental in former times to have misinformed you though i think all along , i was generally more charitable in judgement towards many others of other societies then many were , or now are among the people called quakers . but it 's a great comfort to me that upon a strict examination of my former perswasions and principles , as extant in my former books ( for which i think i can appeal to you ) as well as what i have declared among you , i was never guilty of that horrid unbelief and antichristian errors and heresies , contradicting the chief fundamentals of christianity , that i have found the chief english teachers among the quakers guilty of . i desire to bless god my preserver , who all along hath preserved me sound in the faith , as touching all the twelve ▪ articles of that called the apostles-creed , the god head and man hood of our blessed lord jesus christ , his person and offices . for which i desire you to read and consider the answer given by me and my dear and worthy friend alexander jaffray , ( now with god ) to the thirty questions sent to him by bishop scougal , if that worthy man had lived to this day in the body , i question not but he would have been a strength to me in my opposition , to those vile errors held by the english leaders among the quakers . viz. g. f. g. w. f. b. and many others . i hoped also that ye had been better principled against these vile errors , and that in good measure by means of my labour among you. so that it was no small surprise to me , to find you join in a combination against me , with my adversaries here as you know , ye and your friends generally did , soon after my arrival into england from america . your pretence then was that ye could not believe , that friends either in america or england , were guilty of the errors i had charged them with , but if you will give your selves the liberty to read my late books , and particularly the two , i now send you , i hope ye will be convinced of the truth of my charge , as diverse hereaway both in city and country , through the mercy of god are so convinced , but i fear that some among you are too deeply guilty of some of the same errors . and if ye in particular are not , how can ye in conscience , own them to be your christian brethren , whom i have proved so evidently guilty of them , as particularly the chief teachers among the quakers hereaway , some living and some deceased . and i earnestly request you to distinguish betwixt any good things , either in doctrine or practice ; which ye have seen or observed in me , and whatever was contrary thereunto , so as to cleave unto the former and only reject the latter . what honesty or sobriety and christian practice ye ever saw in me , i hope to persevere in it and increase in the same , and i desire you to do the like ; but reject your errors , your uncharitableness of judgement towards others , your spiritual pride , and over high esteem of your selves . believe not every spirit either in your selves or others , but try the spirits , and bring all doctrines and practices , to the test of the holy scriptures , and pray god , to give you that true light and discerning , to help you to make an impartial examination . it hath been a great default generally among the people called quakers , and remains among them too much to countenance ignorant persons , if they pretend to the spirits teachings and motions to preach and pray , and travel from place to place as teachers of others , when yet they want to be taught the first principles of christianity , and it s to be feared ye have such ignorant teachers among you . i am sure i remember when some of you used to blame it in my hearing , and as i desire you to make a distinction betwixt what is right and wrong , in any of my former doctrines or practices , ( i hope none of you could ever charge me with any immorrality or scandalous conversation when among you , but that if i wanted an attestation to that , i think ye would do me that justice to give me an ample testimony ) so i would have you to know , that i continue grounded and firmly perswaded as to that most necessary and excellent doctrine of gods inward teachings , by his holy spirit light and grace , and his gracious operations and assistances to enable us , and all good christians to perform every acceptable service to him . and whatever ye or any others , may or doe judge of me , i bless my gracious god , that i feel my self a living member of christ's body , by partaking daily of the life and living vertue of the head , jesus christ our lord , and a living branch upon that living vine , and my care is and ever i hope shall be , to abide in him , which i bless god for , i find by true experience , that i can remain and abide such , and yet be reformed in many things in my judgement , and diverse practices , from what i formerly was . it hath been a great mistake in us , to think that we could not be more holy , or soholy as we think we are , or were , without being so excessivly uncharitable towards others , and so contrary to them in our perswasions and practices , when as many of their perswasions and practices were better then ours , and others of them more inoffensive . i hope ye will excuse my writing thus largely unto you , for it is in true love and good will , however you receive it , and as i have said i do not expostulat with you , for your injuring me , for i have more injured you ( though not by any immorality , ) but by being instrumental to have in any wayes misinformed you . i pray god forgive you and me , i remain your truly wel-wishing friend , george keith . london th d moneth , . to andrew jaffray , john robertson , alexander gellie , john forbes , robert gordon , john glennic ; and the rest of the monthly meeting of the people called quakers at aberdeen . something of weighty importance , modestly proposed to your serious consideration . friends , forasmuch , as there hath been , and is some just cause given , to apprehend , that many among the people called quakers , have not a found faith , touching diverse great and weighty doctrines , and principles of the christian religion ; plainly delivered in the holy scriptures : for both mine and others satisfaction , and also for your own vindication , if so be ( which i should be truly glade of , and rejoice in ) that ye manifest your selves to be really innocent and clear of those gross errors and heresies , which the chief english teachers , among the quakers have been and are still charged guilty of , and upon which account , only i have in good conscience been concerned to leave communion with them : not finding that they have in the least as yet cleared themselves of the same , which they can never well do , without a publick and ingenuous retractation of those many unwarrantable and unsound passages in their books . you are therefore earnestly desired , and requested to give your plain and candid answer in writing to these following queries . querie . whether the holy scriptures containing the old and new testament called the bible in their plain and literal meaning ? or the light within , be the certain fixed and standing rule , whereby to judge and determine matters of contraversie as to religion ? here followers the quakers answer . ans . we believe , that the holy scriptures , containing the old and new testament ( called the bible ) as having come from the spirit of god , and being written by men divinly inspired , ( which we most firmly believe they were ) when they are opened and explained by the same spirit of god which gave them forth , ( they being of no private interpretation , pet. . and . ) are an infallible rule of faith and life , unto all to whom god hath in his providence been pleased to communicat them , for they being the things of god cannot be understood , but by the spirit of god , cor. . . remark , this answer to the q. being in all appearance sound and orthodox , ( if they have no secret reserved meaning ) and agreeable to the sense of all sound protestants , i am heartily glade , that they have deserted the unsound and hetrodox doctrine , that some of their principal teachers , both in scotland and england have vouched in their writtings , in relation to the holy scriptures being the rule of faith , and therefore the reader may be pleased to compare this their answer with what robert barclay says ( tho i confess that he and g. k. were the soundest and m●st orthodox writters among the quakers ) in his explanation of his d proposition among his theses theologicae . the principal rule ( saith he ) of christians under the gospel , is not an outward letter nor law outwardly written and delivered , but an inward spiritual law ingraven in the heart , the law of the spirit of life , the word that is nigh in the heart , and in the mouth , but the letter of the scripture is outward of it self a dead thing , a meer declaration of good things , but not the things themselves ; therefore it , nor is , nor can be the chief or principal rule of christians . but least any should mistake him and think that tho he owned them not to be the principal rule , yet at least he acknowledged them to be a rule , he immediatly adds § that which is given to christians for a rule and guide , must needs be so full , as it may clearly and distinctly guide and order them in all things and occurrences , that may fall out . but the scriptures are not such ( as he instanceth in several particulars ) therefore the scriptures cannot be a rule to them . and as they are not a rule , so nor the rule , ( as he sayeth in another place ) as for christ and his apostles , using the scriptures for convincing of their opposers , so do we , and yet this proves not that either he or we judge them to be the rule whereby to try all things and spirits &c. the reader may plainly observe the great inconsistency betwixt what r. b. says and what andrew jaffray and his friends say ; they affirm the scriptures to be an rule , an infallible rule , and an infallible rule of faith and life , in which they are very orthodox , and i must in charity believe that in so farr are our modern quakers reformed , and very justly laid aside their former doctrine . which is yet more plainly and explicitly delivered by william penn in his appendix to the christian quaker , for after endeavouring to prove that the scriptures were never the general rule , he at last by way of objection says . but is not the scripture the rule of our day , he answers if the rule , then the general rule for whatsoever is the rule of faith and life excludeth all other from being general , they being but particular in respect of it self , therefore not the rule of faith and life , but besides , their not being general , i have several reasons to o●ter , and he brings no less then nine or ten reasons , why they cannot be the rule of faith and life . see george keith's book called the deism of william penn , &c. wherein there is a full examination and confutation of william penns discourse of the general rule of faith and practice , and judge of contraversie , printed anno . observe also , what is said in one of their books , called the quakers refuge , p. . whether the first penman of the scriptures , was moses or hermes , or whether both these are one ? or whether there are not many words , contained in the scriptures , which were not spoken by inspiration of the holy spirit . and in a book , called truths defence , by g. f. and r. h. p. d . you may as well condemn the scriptures , to the fire as our queries . q. . whether the light within , be sufficient of it self , to salvation , without any thing else ? a. unto such , as are under a moral impossibility , of coming to the knowledge of the incarnation , life , miracles , crucifiction , death , resurrection and ascension of our lord jesus ' christ , the light wherewith he inlighteneth every man , coming into the world , is sufficient to salvation , ioh. . . tit. . . but where the outward knowledge of the scriptures is attainable , or the outward history of our saviour , it is altogether damnable not to believe the same . r. this answer to the second querie , is in my opinion no answer at all , but a down right shifting the question , which hath no respect to such , as are under a moral impossibility , of knowing the life , death , miracles , &c. of our blessed lord jesus christ , but to such , as have the means of knowing them , and tho to such it be certainly damnable , not to believe them , yet that tells us not , whither the light within , be of its self sufficient to salvation , without any thing else yea or not , and therefore , i must again intreat , that they may be pleased , candidly , and sincerely , to give a plain and direct answer to the querie ? and this i have the more reason to demand , because robert barclay of urie , at the first giving in of their answers , being ●ressed to declare , whether to such as have the means of knowing the life , death , miracles , &c. of the holy jesus , the light within , was of it self sufficient to salvation ? he answered negatively that it was not , and carried away the answers to have that insert , as thier answer to the querie , which after all was not done . from whence it appears , that either they are not agreed amongst themselves , about the resolution of this querie , and so shift the answering it : or else , that they are afraid to own the truth plainly , least thereby they contradict their antient friends . and particularly george whitehood , who plainly asserts in his antidote , p. . that the quakers are offended with g. k. for saying , the light within is not sufficient to salvation without something else . the which proposition , seing he blames as false , he must hold the contradictory to be true , that the light within is sufficient to salvation without any thing else . yea g. w. hath granted in his antidote , p. . that christ as outwardly considered , is that something else which g. k. means . and w. p. in his appendix to the christian quakers , plainly affirms , that the belief of the history of christ's birth , death , &c. is none of the absolute necessaries to our salvation . and in his quakerism a new nickname , &c. he saveth , that faith in the history of christ's outward manifestation , is a deadly poyson , these latter ages has been infected with : and he sayes also in his rejoynder to i. fa●do , that christ in the gentiles , is a greater mistery , then christ as he was made manifest in the flesh , it is strange , that should be counted most misterious , which was the introduction to the mistery , and these transactions , counted most difficult , that were by the divine wisdom of god , ordained as so many facil representations , of what was to be accomplished in man , it is to le●en . if not totally exclude the true mistery of godliness , which is christ manifested in his children , their hope of glory . like to this , is his saying in his preface to the collection of robert barclays book ' s. o reader , ( sayeth he ) great is the mistery of godliness , and if the apostle said it of the manifestation , of the son of god in the flesh . if that be a mistery ( and if a mistery , it is not to be spelled out , but by the revelation of the spirit ) how much more , is the work of regeneration a mistery , that is wholly inward and spiritual . q. . whether the holy three , the father , son , and holy ghost , that bear record in heaven , be not threedistinct persons of one substance , power , glory and eternity ? or are they only three manifestations , or operations , and is there not some incommunicable , as well as communicable attributes , belonging to the persons of the holy trinity ? a. we believe according to the scriptures , that there are three , that bare record in heaven , the father , the world , and the holy ghost , and these three are one , joh. . . and we do not find our selves obliged , to express our selves , in other terms than the wisdom of god , saw meet to express that great mistery in the holy scriptures : but we do believe , that there are incommunicable , as well , as communicable attributes , in the said holy three as is witnessed , joh. . . and the word was made flesh , and dwelt among us , which cannot be said of the other two . r. in this answer to the third querie , it is said , there are incommunicable , as well , as communicable attributes , in the holy three &c. and yet g. whitehead , sayeth in his truth defending the quakers . we deny the popish terms of three distinct persons , which you call god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost , which tends to the dividing god and to the making three god's , and do not you priests , in your divinity , as you call it , affirm that a person is a single , rational , compleat substance , and differing from another , by an incommunicable property ; and art thou so blind , as to think , that there is such a difference in the god head , seing christ is equal with his father , who is a spirit , then what incommunicable property , can he differ in from the father , that is not communicable to the one as well as the other ? and geo fox ( one of the greatest account among them ) in his disputing against c. wade , for saying , that god the father never took upon him , human nature , which ( sayeth he ) in his great mistery is contrary to the scripture . this was the error of the old hereticks , called patripassians , who held that god the father was born of the virgin , suffered , dyed , &c. q. . is not the promised seed of the woman , that should bruise the serpents head , gen. . . the man christ jesus , that was born of the virgin at bethlehem , in the land of iudea . a. we answer affirmatively , it is he and he alone , we never in the least doubted it , what ever malice may suggest without the least ground . r. this answer may be compared , with what w. p. sayes in express words in his christian quaker , p. . one outward thing ( saithhe ) cannot be the propper figure of another , nor is it the way of holy scripture , so to teach , the outward lamb shews forth the inward lamb. the seed of the promise , is an holy and spiritual principle , of light , life and power , that being received into the heart , briuses the serpents head , and because the seed , which cannot be the body , ( viz. that was outwardly born of the virgin ) is christ , as testify the scriptures , the seed is one , that seed christ , and christ god over all blessed for ever . the reader may see , that it s not malice , but that there is too much ground , to suggest the quakers unsoundness as to the foresaid querie . q . that seed of abraham to which the promise was made , that in him all the nations of the earth shall be blessed , according to gen. . . gal. . was it not the man christ jesus who according to the flesh , was the son of abraham , and the son of david , matt. . . a. we answer affirmatively , yea it was he and none else . r. with this orthodox answer , the reader may compare what g. w. sayes , in his truth defending the quakers , it is queried thus , did richard hubberthorn will , in writing that christs coming in the flesh , was but a figure , g. w. answers , could christ have been said to have been transfigured , if his coming in the flesh , had not been a figure . and in his christian quaker , he positively denyes that christ consisted of visible flesh and bones . it is ( saith he ) both unscriptural , and assurd , to assert that jesus christ consisteth of a human body , of flesh and bones , ( how then can he be properly the seed of abraham , and the son of david i distinguish ( sayeth g. w. ) between considing , and having . ( christ had visible flesh and bones , but he did not consist of them , as a man hath a coat or a garment , but he doth not consist of it . ) q. had not this man , a real soul , that was not the godhead , and a real body also , that was not the god-head ? a. we answer affirmatively , yea he had both . r. this answer may be compared with what g. w. sayes , in his appendix to the divinity of christ aganist t. d. as to t. ds telling us of the son of gods incarnation , the creation of his body , and soul , the parts of that nature he subsisted in , ( note , that nature , plainly denotes christ's manhood nature , that t. d. meant , which had a created body and soul ) to this i say , ( sayes g. w. if the body and soul of the son of god , were both created ? doth not this render him a fourth person , again where do the scripture say , that the soul was created ? q is not that outward man who was born of the virgin , and suffered without the gates of jerusalem , properly and truly the son of god , having no immediat father but god. a. we answer affirmatively , and fully believe he is so . r. this answer to the seventh querie , being in all appearance sound and orthodox , and agreeable to the sense of all sound protestants , ( if they have no secret reserved meaning in this and their other orthodox answers ) wherein they dissent , from the unsound doctrine of some of their chief teachers , and therefore the reader may be pleased , to compare this their answer , with what w. p. saves , in his serious apologie : page . viz. but that the outward person that suffered , without the gates of jerusalem , was properly the son of god we utterly deny . ( is not this a plain contradiction to what a. j. &c asserts and also w. p. in his rejoinder , pag say's that outward person that suffered at jerusalem was christ by a m●tonomy , of the thing containing , having the name of the thing contained . q. . is not jesus christ , both god and man , and yet but one christ , so that his godhead is not his manhood , though the nature of his manhood , is most highly , and wonderfully united to his godhead ? a. we answer affirmatively , and fully believe the same . r this answer to the eight querie , the reader may compare it , with what one of their antient teachers , christopher atkinson sayes , in his book called the sword of the lord drawn pag. . your imagined god , beyond the stars , and your carnal christ , is utterly denyed . to say this christ , is god and man in one person , is a lie , and g. w. sayes in his book , called the life and light &c. pag. . as for those expressions , god man , being born of marie , we do not find them in the scriptures , nor do we read , that marie was the mother of god , but in the popes canons , articles , &c. and what nonsense , ( saith he page . ibidem . ) and unscripture language , is this , to tell of god being co-created with the father , or that god hath glory with god , doth not this imply two gods ? and that god had a father ? let the reader judge ? and ( page . ) to tell of the word god , cocreator with the father , is all one as to tell of god , being cocreator with god , if the father be god , and this is to make two gods , two creators , &c. and thus g. w. opposes the godhead of christ , as he doth his manhood in other quotations , he also denyes , the glorious hipostatical union , that it consists of a human and divine nature , or that they are hipostatically one . see his christian quaker , page . . and their book called , a testimony for the true christ , pag. . whereof g. w. is supposed to be the author , they deny the humanity of christ , as humanity signifies the earthly nature of mans body , as coming from humus the ground ; but as humanity signifies meekness , gentleness , mercifulness , as opposite to cruelty , in this last sense , they own christ's humanity , but deny it in the former , which is the true sense of scripture , and of all true christians . and , as they deny the humanity of christ , so they deny divine worship and honour to be given to him , and consequently denyes his divinity , as william shewen a noted writer among them , expresly sayes , in his book called a small treatise concerning evil thoughts , p. . not to jesus the son of abraham , david , and mary , saint or angel , but to god the father , all worship , honour , and glory is to be given . q. . did christ's natural body , which was crucified and was buried , rise again ? and did that body after his resurrection , ascend into heaven ? and is that body now in heaven ? a. we believe , that christ's body , which was crucified and was buried , did rise again ; and did after his resurrection ( being wonderfully glorified ) ascend to heaven , and is now at the right hand of the majesty on high , heb. . . r. this answer , if they have no secret reserved meaning in it , in all appearance seems orthodox , and agreeable to the sense of all sound protestants . but the reader may compare it , with what g. w. sayes , in his nature of christianity ; pag. . what scripture proof ( saith he after his socratical way of writing ) is there that christ subsisteth outwardly , bodily without us , at god's right hand ? and where is god's right hand ? is it visible or invisible ? within us or without us onely ? and is christ a saviour , as an outward bodily existence , or person without us , distinct from god , and on that consideration , to be worshipped as god , yea or nay ? but john whitehead a very eminent and ancient preacher among them , is more explicit , in his postscript to a book called the quakers refuge , p. . i have several times saith he denyed , that christ hath now a body of flesh and bone , circumscript or limited in that heaven which is above , and out of every man on earth ▪ and g. w. in his light and life , pag. . is very plain , where he expresly saith , the quakers see no need , of directing men to the type for the antitype , viz. neither to the outward temple , nor yet to jerusalem , either to jesus christ or his blood , knowing that neither the righteousness of faith doth so direct , rom. . q. is that heaven , into which christ hath ascended , in the true glorified nature of man consisting of soul and body ) without us , or within us only ? and do you own the man christ jesus to be without you , as well as his spirit and light within you ? a we firmly believe that , that heaven , unto which christ hath ascended in the 〈◊〉 glori●●ed nature of man 〈…〉 of soul and body , is without i● : and u● do own the man christ jesus to be without us , as well as his spirit and light within us : rom . heb. . . r. this answer may be compared with what g. f. says in his great mistery p. . there is none have a glory and a heaven but within them . now , if there be no glory nor heaven without us ? then how can christ be ascended into a heaven without us ? and w. p. redicules the locality of both heaven and hell , and sayes in his rejoinder , p. . to deny it , is not very offensive , and that it looks too carnal , indeed mahomitan , viz. to assert it w smith an antient and eminent writter among them , in his catechism , p. . has this question , and is that which is within you , the only foundation , upon which you stand , and the principle of your religion ; answer , that of god within us , is so ; for we know it is christ , and being christ it must needs be onely and principal , for that which is onely admits not of another , and that which is principal , is greatest in being , and thus we know , christ in us to be unto us the onely and the principal . q but do ye hold that this foundation and principle within you is sufficient to eternal life ? a. yes we do so ▪ and g. f. in his great mistery p. says to c. wade , the devil was in thee , and thou sayeth , thou art saved by christ without thee : and g w , sayes in truth defending the quakers p. , that faith in christ without men , is contray to the apolles doctrine . is this to own the man christ jesus to be without us , as a. j &c , asserts they do in their answer . q. . are we justified and cleansed from sin , by the blood of christ that was outwardly shed ? and are we sanctified by that blood meritoriously , as by his spirit , grace and light in us , efficiently ? a. we answer affirmatively . r. with this affirmative answer may be compared r. bs proposition in his a pology p of his works , as many ( sayeth he ) as resit not this light viz. the light within , but reserve the same , it becomes in them a holy , pure and spiritua 〈◊〉 bringing so the holiness , righto●sness 〈◊〉 and all those 〈…〉 fruits which are acceptable to god , by which holy birth , viz , jesus christ formed within us , and working his works in us , as we are sanctified , so 〈…〉 in the ●ight of god according to cor. . . here justification and sanctification are intirely 〈◊〉 to christ the light within , and there is not one word of the outward christ , or his outward blood outwardly shed . let the reader also consider what he delivers as his position in p. viz that since good works as naturally flow from this birth , as heat from fire , therefore are they of absolut necessity to justification , as causa sine qua non , i. e. tho not as the cause for which , yet as that in which we are and without which we cannot be justified . but g. w. is a litle more distinct in his d part of the christian quaker p. . ( where he sayeth ) but what proof hath he from scripture that the sheding of christ's blood was the meritorious cause of justification ? so through that whole d chap. he labours to prove that properly speaking it is by the spirit and light , or christ within , we are justified . and in his antidote p. he affirms , that the blood of his , viz. ( christs outward blood ) as well as the water that came out of his side , had an allegorical and mysterious signification as well as an outward and literal , even of the spiritual blood and water of life , which being compared , with what he says in his light and life p. , in which he plainly denys that the material blood of the sacrifice , was a type of the material blood of christ , for that were to say ( sayeth he ) that material blood was a type of that which was material , this is to give the substance no pre-eminence above the type . so that tho ( as g. k. observes in his narrative p. ) g. w. &c. grant , that a man called christ , was outwardly born , dyed , had his blood shed &c , yet all this was an allegory , and had an allegorical signification , of christ truly and really ( without an allegory ) born within them , crucified and dead within them , his blood shed within them , buried , risen , ascended within them , atonement , reconciliation &c. within them : and seeing they deny the merit and efficacy of christ's death , and blood without , and of what he did and suffered without us , they are justly charged to allegorize it away , that is , to make no other account of it , then of the history of hagar and sarah , and other types , symbols , and allegories of the old testament . w. p. is yet more express speaking of our justification by the righteousness which christ hath fulfilled in his own person for us , he says in his serious appology p. , and indeed this we deny and boldly affirm it , in the name of the lord to be the doctrine of devils , and an arm of the sea of corruption , which does now deluge the whole world. i could quote many more passages , but i refer to these following , g. ws. light and life , p. . . &c. w. batlies coll. p. , . . q. . is it altogether , and wholy , as necessary for us to believe in christ without us , for our eternal salvation , as to believe in his spiritual light within us ? and is not the faith in the man christ , as he dyed for our sins , and rose again , and is at the right hand of god , and maketh intercession for us , according to rom. . . necessary to be preached frequently , as well as his inward appearance , by every true minister of christ ? a. we believe , ( as in our answser to the second query ) that it s altogether necessary , for us to believe in christ without us , for our eternal salvation , where the means of the knowledge thereof can be had : and also that the faith in the man christ jesus , as he dyed for our sins , and rose again , and is at the right hand of god , &c. is necessary to be preached by all true ministers , as they are led thereunto by the spirit of god , and which is frequently practised amongst us , as may be witnessed by such as come to our meetings , according to , cor. . . r. the limitation in this answer is useless , for i speak only of such as have the means , and as to our faith in christ without us , r. bs. sayeth in pag. . of his works and whereas thou sayest , you see the apostles judges the knowledge of christ crucisied to be that one thing necessary , we deny ( sayes r. b. ) that the knowledge of his being outwardly crucified is that one thing necessary , for people must know him in them . and as a confirmation of this , in the second proposition of his apologie , page . ( he sayeth ) which revelation of god by the spirit , whither by outward voices , or appearances , dreams , or inward objective manifestations in the heart , were of old the formal object of their faith , and remains yet so to be , since the object of the saints faith , is the same in all ages , and in consequence to this last part , he sayes pag. . that which now cometh under debait , is what we have asserted in the last place , viz. that the same continueth to be the object of the saints faith to this day , &c. here is not one word of faith in christ without us , but on the contrary , the formal object of the saints faith , in all ages is inward revelations , and the light within . g. f. sayes in his great mystery , p. . the light which every one hath that cometh into the world , is sufficient unto salvation , without the help of any other means or discovery . w. p. sayes , quakerism , a new nickname , pag. . and since they believe that outward appearance , ( i. e. jesus at jerusalem , ) they need not preach what is not to be again . so then by this the birth , life and death , &c. of the holy jesus needs not to be preached , and indeed a great deal of the bible , is to be laid aside and not preached , according to this maxim of w. ps. and w bailie , an antient writer among them sayes , see his goll . p. . and so he taught them to pray , our father , &c. not to look at his person , and to pray to him as a person without them , but bid them pray to the father . then by the same rule , if not pray to him , we are not to believe in him , as a person without us . but the reader may observe , that however orthodox a. j. &c. seems to be in their answer , in affirming that faith in the man christ jesus as he dyed , &c. ( where the meanes of the knowledge thereof can be had &c ) is necessary to be preached by all true ministers , yet it is ( with this proviso , ) as they are led thereunto by the spirit , which clause seems to destroy that obligation , which immediatly before they had acknowledged , for suppose any or all the preachers , among the quakers be indifferent in this matter , and so quite neglect ( as generally they doe ) preaching the necessity of faith in the man christ without us , here is a shift ready , they may plead this for their excuse , and say they are not led thereunto by the spirit of god. q . do you believe that all that were saved in any age of the world , had their sins forgiven them , for the man christ jesus his sake , and on the account of his most holy , and perfect obedience unto death , and that what light and grace , all men ever received from god in former ages , or now receive , or shall her after receive to the worlds end , it is given to men , for the man christ jesus his sake , by his purchase and merits , and continual mediation and intercession ? a. we answer affirmatively and firmly believe it , acts . . r. this answer the reader may be pleased to compare with the quotations in the remarks on the and . answers . q. did not the lord jesus christ by his most perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he offered up unto god , fully satisfy the justice of his father , and so pay the ransom for the sins of mankind ? q. . did christ suffer the punishment due for the sins of fallen man ? and did he make full payment in mans stead , for the debt contracted by sin ? a. to both which last queries we answer , that we believe that the lord jesus christ did freely offer himself an acceptable sacrifice for the sins of mankind , and that the father ( of his great mercy ) accepted of that sacrifice as a sufficient expiation for the sins of the whole world as in these scriptures , pet. . . pet. . . pet. . . john . , , , . verses . r. this answer to the , and . queries may be compared with the th question in g. ws. appendix to the d part of the christian quaker , p. . where it is asked , whether divine justice did propperly and strictly require a full payment and punishment upon christ in mans stead , for all the debt contracted and injury done by fallen man ? to which it is answered , no , christ's sufferings were not of that nature or intent &c. and thereafter he says , p. , and see p , all these scriptures relating to christ's sufferings , as isa . &c. do all intimat god's great kindness and condescention in christ jesus , and his humiliation and deep suffering under the weight and burden of sin , and as by the grace of god , he tasted death for every man , all which fall greatly short , of proving our adversaries charge against him , viz that god poured down his wrath and revenge on his innocent son , for satisfaction to divine justice in mans stead that have done the injury i say all the sciptures alledged by them , can never prove this &c. here we have a positive answer , to the queries , and no shuffling or shifting the matter , as a. j. and his friends do in their answer and w. p. in his rejoinder to io. faldo p. and , justifyeth w. smiths saying christ in us offereth himself a living sacrifice to god for us , by which the wrath of god is appeased to us . and g. w. in his light and life p. . doth also justify the same , but what he sayeth is too large to be here inserted , and therefore i refer the reader to the book it self , and to g. ks. nar. p. . w. p. in his reason against railing , p. . sayes , that if it is our duty to forgive without a satisfaction received , and that god is to forgive us as we forgive others , then is a satisfaction totally excluded . see also his sandy foundation wherein he expresly argueth against christ's satisfaction , and insists largely on it . i have not the book at present by me , so cannot quote exactly any passage out of it . but above all , that which i think is most horrible and blasphemous and undervaluing the sufferings of our blessed lord . e. b. of great esteem among them sayeth in his works p. printed , and which his friends reprinted and approved of : the sufferings ( sayeth he ) of the people of god called quakers in this age , is greater suffering and more unjust then in the dayes of christ , or of the apostles , what was done to christ or the apostles , was chiefly done by a law , and in great part by the due execution of a law , &c. q . do the best works , that any are enabled to perform , even by the assistance of the spirit ; merit pardon of sin and eternal life ? a we answer negatively , we have no merit , all is of free grace and mercy through christ tit. . . r. this answer seems to bespeak a humble and self denyed frame of spirit , and i am very glade to find such come from a. i. &c. but i am sure their friends books are filled with a great deal of self exaltation , and abasing of all others , and too much spiritual pride and boasting of their faithfulness , ( as that by and for which they merited or hoped to attain eternal life ) may be too much observed in most of their preachings , and as an evidence for what i say , let the reader consider what samuel fisher sayeth in his rusticus , &c. p . that because evil works ( saith he ) are the meritorious cause of our condemnation , therefore good works are the meritorious cause of our justification . see also , p. . . ibid. and see also g. ws voice of wisdom p. . q . shall the man christ jesus come again and appear without us to judge the quick and the dead ? a. we answer affirmatively , yea , he shall , according to these scriptures mat. , . acts , . this answer may be compared with what g. w. says in his light and life , p , . but three comings ( saith he ) not onely that in the flesh at jerusalem , and that in the spirit , but also another coming in the flesh yet to be expected , we do not read of , but a d coming without sin unto salvation which in the apostles days was looked for . and in his christ ascended &c , p. . . &c. not only denyeth any personal comming of christ yet to be at the end of the world , but denyeth him to have a personal existance in heaven without the saints and chargeth it to be anthropomorphism and muggletonism . see also w. bailies coll : p. . q. . is there any resurrection of the dead , that all or any of the deceased saints wait for ? and doth the same natural body , that dyeth rise again , or is the resurrection nothing else , but what ye have already or what ye shall have , immediatly after death ? a. we believe that there shall be a resurrection both of the just , and of the unjust , according to the scriptures acts , cor. , . also the same chap. from to verse , and we believe that the resurrection is not already past nor is that which we shall immediatly enter into after death . r. by this answer to this q. a. j. and his friends shift the question intirely , for i know , that verbally they seem to own a resurrection , but that our natural elementary bodies shall rise again they utterly deny and oppose . so g. w. argueth most violently against it in the second part of his christian quaker , p. . . &c. and so doth w. p. in his reasoning against , railing p. , . if the thing ( saith he ) can be the same and notwithstanding changed for shame let us never make so much stur against the doctrin of transubstantiation , for the absurdity of it is rather out down then equalled by this carnal resurrection . and r. hubberthorn sayes , coll. p. these are they that plead for a life in sin , while they are here , and that say that the saints glorified in heaven do yet hope for the resurrection of their bodies &c. see also , w. p. his invalidity of i. f. vindication p. &c. q . whither outward baptism with water , and the outward supper called the lords supper , be not divine institutions and ordinances of our blessed lord jesus christ commanded by him to be continued and practiced to the end of the world ? a. first , as for baptism we believe , that as there is one lord and one faith , so there is one baptism eph. , . which is not the puting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience before god , by the resurrection of jesus christ . pet. , . and this baptism is a pure and spiritual thing , to wit , the baptism of the spirit and fire , by which we are buried with him , rom. . . and puts on christ , gal : , . that being purged and washed from our sins we may walk in newness of life , being risen with him through the faith of the operation of god : collos . . . of which the baptism of john was a figure , whose ministry was to decrease , but christ to increase , iohn . . and who said himself , i indeed baptise you with water to repentance ; but he that cometh after me is mightier then i , whose shoes i am not worthy to bear , he shall baptise you with the holy ghost and with fire . mat. . . here are two baptisms mentioned , whereof certainly johns was the figure , and christs the continuing substance , and though johns was continued or practiced for a season yet paul that great apostle who was not a whit inferiour to the chiefest apostles , cor. . . expresly affirms , that outward baptism was not within his commission from christ , read cor. . . as for the sprinkling of infants called baptism we find neither precept nor practice of it in all the scriptures of truth ; and therefore judge it to be a meer humane tradition . and as for the outward supper , we do believe that the communion of the body and blood of christ is inward and spiritual ( as to the substance ) which is the participation of his flesh and blood by which the inward man is daily nourished in the hearts of those in whom christ dwels ; cor. chap. . . verses john . . of which things the breaking of bread by christ with his disciples was a figure which they even used in the church for a time who had received the substance for the sake of the weak , even as abstaining from things strangled and from blood , the washing on anothers feet , and the anointing the sick with oyl , all which are commanded with no less authoriy and solemnity then the former , and the two last of them , as true outward signs or simbols of inward grace , as the bread and wine , yet , seeing they are but the shaddows of better things , they cease in such as have obtained the substance . acts . . john , ja. , . where these forementioned things are commanded or institute . r. it is indeed to be much lamented , that the whole body of the quakers every where , is too well agreed as to their disowning and contempt , of our blessed saviour's institutions , especially baptism and the lord's supper . but a. j. &c. might have given a shorter answer , for i designed not by these queries , that either they should prove what they hold , or that i should disprove the same . and therefore for a full reply , to what either they have here alledged , or what r. b. and others of the chief english teachers , among the quakers have argued against the continuance and practice of outward water , baptism and the lord's supper . i refer the reader to geo keith's book , called the arguments of the quakers against baptism , &c. wherein they are intirely consuted and fully answered : and which book i do not know , that the quakers have so much as pretended to answer . q lastly , if ye be realy sound and sincere in the faith , of the great fundamental truths , of the christian religion , are ye not then bound in conscience to manifest the same , and that both by disowning and condemning , by a publick testimony , all those gross erroneous and unchristian passages , which have been and may still more and more be discovered , out of your ancient and chief friends printed books : ( observe so far only a. j. &c. recited this last querie , and wholly omitted all the rest . ) and i doe hereby offer to prove the same before any judicious indifferent persons , as it shall please god to give me an opportunity , by producing such palpable quotations out of the said books , directly contradicting the plain testimony of the holy scriptures , and contrary to the necessary essential point of christian faith and doctrine , and if ye be clear and innocent , ( as i said already ) ought ye not likewise to disown all such , for your christian brethren , that have opposed , and who doe still continue to oppose any of those precious truths of the gospel , which have been universally received by all true and sound christians . i doe expect your positive and candid answer , by your plain and simple affirmation or negation , to each of these queries ( by which you may prevent any suspicion of quibling or equivocating ) to be sent with all convenience to aberdeen the th day of the th moneth called june . your real welwisher , robert sandilands . a. we are realy sound and sincere in the great , and fundamental truths of the christian religion , and we are ready to manifest the same , but we are not bound in reason to receive the testimony of an avowed adversary against our brethern , and if he have any thing to charge against them , among whom he resides , he wants not opportunity to do it face to face . and we doubt not but they can clear themselves sufficiently this answer to the above written queries , was drawn upon the th day of the th moneth called june : and signed as follows . alexander gelley , robert barclay , iohn forbes , george forbes senior , robert gordon , william taylor , andrew jaffray , iohn robertson , robert gerard , daniel simson , iohn somervaile , william glenny , james wallace , iohn merser , robert keith . yet at the desire of some of the magistrats , so many of our number as are present , have again signed the same with their own hands . observe . they first gave a copy of their answer unsigned , and which they brought to the publick mercat place , and copies thereof given to divers persons , afterwards they brought their answers much corrected , with large additions , with several names at them , but all write with one hand , and that not being satisfactory , it was returned to them again : at last , they delivered it signed authentically , by severals of their own hands . andrew jaffray , alexander gelley , william taylor , daniel simson , robert keith , iohn sommervaile , robert gordon , george forbes senior , iohn merser , iohn king. r. i should truly rejoice , and be heartily glade to find both , a. j. &c. and all others among the people called quakers , manifest themselves to be realy sound and sincere , not only in some but in all the fundamental truths of the christian religion ; but whether a. j. and his friends have evidenced themselves to be such , by their answers , to the queries before recited , i leave that to all impartial and judicious readers to judge . and for a manifest tryal of the sincerity and soundness of their faith , in those points wherein they seem orthodox , and that they have no secret reserved meanings , but what is agreeable to the sense of all sound protestants , it is here proposed to them , ( and which is reasonably expected ) that they give a publick testimony in writing , against those erroneous passages and positions , as they are here set down as before , and quoted out of their approved and antient friends books , which plainly contradicts their own orthodox answers . they are obliged ( i think ) either to own , or else to disown these errors : the latter i hope they will ingeniously doe , as being no respecter of persons . for the truth must be owned and preferred before all things and persons , tho never so near or dear to us . and unless a. j. &c. doe this ; their sincerity will still be suspected , notwithstanding all their great pretences . as for their saying , we are not bound in reason to receive the testimony of an avowed adversary , against our brethren ; as i would not be imposed upon in such weighty concerns , so i doe not impose my testimony upon them , but have fairly and sincerely laid before them , their own antient and most eminent approved friends testimonies , both in england and scotland : and i could have produced many more quotations , if they had been so candid to have granted me the use of their friends books , which i had not by me here , ( and i being a traveller could not be other wayes provided with ) however , i offer this to them , let the books be produced , out of which the quotations are taken , and let them be perused by any judicious and indifferent persons , and see whither they are justly and fairly quoted , and i shall submit the same to their censure . and whoever it is they mean , to be their brethrens avowed adversary : i bless god i can sincerely say , that i have no personal enmity or prejudice against them , or any persons whatsomever ; it s true , i detest their vile errors , but i still love and respect their persons , and what i have herein done may shew , that it was not through malice , &c. i could also have given an account , of many very unchristian and unsavoury passages , which were preached publickly in their meetings at reading in england where i live , which occasioned divers to leave them . and whereas they say , and if he have any thing to charge against them , among whom he receeds , he wants not opportunity to doe it face to face , and we doubt not but they can clear themselves sufficiently . i should be very glade , as i have said before , they would do so indeed , but i am sure , they have never in the least yet done it , as they ought to doe , notwithstanding of the many opportunitis , and that publickly , to have cleared themselves , of what has been charged against them , and still lyes at their door uncleared and unanswered by them ; and i am fully satisfied , that notwitstanding of their many late new creeds , they can never well clear themseves , until they publickly , and ingeniously retract those errors in their printed books ; and when they once do that , i think there is none will be so unchristian , as to charge them any more therewith . there is one or two quotations more , which i think fit to add . g. f. and r. h. sayes in truths defence , p. , and our giving forth papers and printed books , it is from the immediat , eternal sipiritual god. 〈◊〉 . now i leave it to the serious consideration , of a. j. 〈◊〉 . and the rest of his friends , whether in their consciences they realy believe , that the foresaid passages quoted out of their friends books , were given forth from the immediat eternal spirit of god. and g. f. pleads for the same degree of the spirit , to know the scriptures by , as the prophets and apostles had . see his great myst . p. . &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e see r. rs. works pag. . pag. . near the end pag pag . pag. . pag. p. pag. . see also his christi an quaker pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . . pag. . see the quotation at large cited in g. ks. fourth narrative p. . rogero-mastix a rod for william rogers, in return for his riming scourge, &c. by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) rogero-mastix a rod for william rogers, in return for his riming scourge, &c. by thomas ellwood. ellwood, thomas, - . , [ ] p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year . in verse. reproduction of the original in the christ chruch library, oxford. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng rogers, william, d. ca. . quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion rogero-mastix . a rod for william rogers , in return for his riming scourge , &c. by thomas ellwood . printed in the year . to such as ask , why i in verse have writ ? this answer i return , i held it fit , verse should in verse be answer'd , prose in prose . my adve●…ry his o●… weapon ●…se . 〈◊〉 chose ●…ore in prose to wri●… , and th●… i ans●… him in pro●… . 〈◊〉 now agen , since he his stile from prose to verse hath chang'd , and in the muses walks hath boldly rang'd , in his own method him i chose to treat , lest he should wise be in his own conceit , prov. . . a rod for william rogers , in return for his rhyming scourge , &c. the preacher tells us , that beneath the sun there 's no new thing : for , that which shall be done , hath been before , and what is now a doing shall acted be again , in times ensuing . ●…t none be shaken , therefore , in his mind , 〈◊〉 he gods people now reviled find , reproach't with bitter words , and vilifi'd , with filthy slanders loaded , and bely'd by wicked men : such was the churche's state of old , as sacred story doth relate . that railing herauld of th' assyrian host , the foul-mouth'd rabshakeh , that man of boast , who from senacherib , assyrian's king , did a proud message unto iudah bring ; when he design'd the faithful iews to draw from their observance of the holy law , he labour'd to perswade them they had left the way of god already , and bereft themselves , by that means , of all ground of hope that god would them defend . this was the scope of his false reas'ning with them : if , said he , 〈◊〉 answer , in the lord our god trust we ; is not that he , whose altars and high-places your hezekiah takes down and defaces ; and hath to judah and jerus'lem said , your worship at this altar shall be made ? by this , he hop'd their confidence to shake , in god the lord , and them 〈◊〉 make of god's protection , and from thence afford an open ear to his seducing word . and that he might the more amuze them , he pretends his mission from the lord to be . am i , says he , come up without the lord against this place , to put it to the sword ? the lord ( adds he ; for in a lye he 'll stand ) unto me said , go up against this land. then let n●…t hezekiah make you trust still in the lord , saying , the lord ( who 's just ) will surely us deliver , and this city shall not be subject to assyria 's pity . to this effect that wretch , with strained voice proclaim'd , and in his lewdness did rejoyce a little while ; but , e'er 't was long , the rod taught him what 't was to rail at israel's god. when treacherous sanballat and tobiah perceiv'd the godly zeal of nehemiah , the care and pains he took , his diligence the holy city with a wall to fence , how hard he labour'd ( in despite of them ) to build the breaches of ierusalem ; set up the gates thereof , and hang the dore , that they no longer could , as heretofore , go in and out at pleasure , and prophane , with unclean mixtures , iacob's seed again ; bring in mixt marriages , and thereby make god's people him offend , him them forsake : at first it griev'd them sore to hear some tell of one that sought the good of israel . then when they found the work would be begun , they laught , and into scornful scoffs did run ; and by derision and disdainful cries , declar'd how much they did the work despise . but when they understood the work went on , and was in likely posture to be done , they waxt exceeding wroth , and strait combin'd together to oppose it ; with them joyn'd th' arabian , ammonite and ashdodite , in league , against jerusalem to fight : and all to the intent , to bring to nought the work , which god had by his servants wrought . their war-like preparations proving vain , they use a stratagem , they lay a train to catch the innocent ; thus him they greet , come , let us in one place together meet . fair the pretence appeared , but their thought was , by that medium , to have mischief wrought . good nehemiah saw their snare , and scap'd the hands of them that for his ruin gap'd . i am , quoth he , about a work too great to leave it , and come down , with you to treat . four times ( so did they long to circumvent the righteous ) they the self same message sent and the same answer did as oft receive , i may not stop , the work 's too great to leave . when thus sanballat saw his counsels fail , that nor by force , nor guile , he could prevail ; with rage and envy swell'd , at length he burst , and cast up gall , and whatsoe'er was worst ; not only nehemiah to defame , but bring an odium on the jewish name . and that he might his slander publick make , ( as publick as he could ) this way did take . he gave unto his servant a command , to bear a letter open in his hand , in which he did suggest an accusation upon report , ( a sly insinuation ) that nehemiah had imploy'd the iews to build the wall , that he might them abuse , and thrust himself upon them for their king , and thereby double bondage on them bring . and , that he might the crown the better reach , he had appointed prophets too , to preach so of him at jerusalem , and say , there is a king in iudah at this day . thus wrought tobiah , sanballat , and those that with them joyn'd , the work of god t' oppose . one while , by scoffing , scorning and deriding , another while , by force and factious siding ; then by deceit , and many a subtil wile , in hopes they might the innocent beguile ; and lastly , by a publick defamation , to make the iews a scorn to gentile-nation . when proud diotrephes , whose swelling breast , love of pre-eminence had long possest , had by surmize and false insinuation , leaven'd a party in the congregation , the rancour of his venom'd heart brake forth against some , in the church , of greatest worth , prating against them , with malicious words , as , in his third epistle , iohn records ; nor only prating , but from words proceeds to work division by mischievous deeds , opposing what the inspir'd apostle writ conducing to the churches benefit . by these examples , plainly it appears , how satan plaid his pranks in former years , what arts he us'd , how craftily he wrought , what instruments , w●…ereby to work , he sought ; one while , professed enemies , and then another while he chose false brethren . and though those agents now are dead and gone , satan remains the same , the evil one. he mischief always to the church intends , and mischief to effect , his agents sends . though rabshakih be dead , tobiah rotten , sanballat and diotrephes forgotten , the wicked spirit that in them did strive against gods truth and church , is still alive ; and other instruments doth daily raise , to hinder truth 's fair progress , in these dayes . he agents has , great store , of ev'ry size and sort . how num'rous are truth 's enemies ! yet blest be god! a greater number 's those that stand for truth , than those that it oppose . i list not here a muster-roll to make of all who , from without , in hand did take to battel against truth , and shake their spears at israel's camp within these twenty years . nor do i purpose to enum'rate all , who , in that time , themselves did quakers call , that through misguided zeal , or discontent , their bows against their brethren have bent . but since some few , of late , appear to be with rage and envy fill'd , to that degree , that with more bitterness than all the rest , their malice against truth they have exprest , my purpose is to single out from these him , that appears as their diotrephes . and that is rogers : for though crisp and bug , with other some , do at the same oare tug , and toil hard at it too , with all their might , yet can they do no more but shew their spite . and for the rest , that lie behind the skreen , and move the wheels , but like not to be seen ; although they help to carry on the work , i take less notice of them , while they lurk . them therefore leaving , i return again , to view will. rogers his poetick strain ; who having been too often foil'd in prose , to try his fortain , now in verse hath chose ; if verse , without offence , that may be call'd , which is delivered in rhimes so bald , so flat , so dull , so rough , so void of grace , where symphony and cadence have no place ; so full of chasmes , stuck with prosie pegs , whereon his tired muse might rest her legs , ( not having wings ) and take new breath , that then she might , with much a doe , hop on agen . his [ a words to that effect , — b why so ? — c how so ? d hence i observe , — e hence i conclude — ] do show , his pu●…sy muse was often out of wind , and glad when she a perching place could find . what drew thee , william , to this rhiming fit , having no more p●…opensity to it ? could'st think such hobling and unequal rhimes , that make a iangling , like disorder'd chimes , could of a poem e'er deserve the name , or e'er be read without the author's shame ? what clouds of darkness in thy lines appear ! how is thy stile perplext ! how far from clear ! thy muse is wrapt in thickest fogs of night , which shews thou art departed from the light. nor sun , nor moon , nor star throughout thy book is to be seen . no spring nor christal brook glides through thy margin . no , thy waters run black , like the streams of styx , or phlegeton . i will not , william , take the pains to trace the snakey windings of thy crooked race ; nor do i mean to give my self the trouble to hunt thee , foot by foot , through ev'ry double ; nor do i purpose here to spend my time , to sweep away the stinking mud and slime , ( the sanious matter of a putrid brain , which doth well nigh each page of thine distain ) which in base terms , and for the basest ends , thou belchest forth against those worthy friends , who , maugre all thy foul calumniation , have in the church an honourable station . i hold it needless now to make defence , against plain envy , for plain innocence . besides , they are more able far , i know , thy vomit back upon thy face to throw , 〈◊〉 they think fit ; or , with a noble scorn , ●…nd , silent , set their feet upon thy horn. ●…oiding therefore that scurrility , ●…herewith upon some persons thou dost fly , ●…purpose more especially to look ●…to those envious parcels of thy book , ●…hich seem to have a more extenc●… relation to all the faithful friends in ev'ry nation ; ●…ot only those whom god hath call'd to be ●…is servants in a publick ministry , ●…t even all , beneath the cope of heaven now living , who their names to christ have given and , in this search , i make no doubt to find , and manifest , that , with malicious mind , like sanballat , tobiah , and the rest , whose envious workings are before exprest , ●…ou either chargest friends with what 's not true , 〈◊〉 blam'st their doing what they ought to do . after thou hast , in misty phrases , told what those call'd quakers us'd to preach of old , ( which yet thou dost in language so unclear , that common sense doth not therein appear : ) thou slily dost suggest , that friends are gon from that great truth they first insisted on . but thy suggestion's false : we firmly hold the sure foundation that was laid of old . quakers ( thou sayst ) in christ's name thus did preach , christ's light 's our guide , it fallen man doth teach . and quakers still ( say i ) do preach the same , [ christ's light 's our guide ] and preach it in christ's name ; and that it fallen man would teach , if he would be perswaded by it taught to be . ●…ut fallen man rebels , and often kicks against this inward teacher , when it pricks . and that 's the soundest reason can be brought , why thou , being fall'n from truth , remain'st untaught . christ's teaching by his spirit few deny'd , thou say'st . why few ? let truth the case decide . if [ few ] relates to friends , there was not any : if to the world , not few , but very many , christ's teachings by his spirit did deny , and 'gainst immediate inward teachings cry . now take which course thou wilt , 't is plain in view , that what thou hast asserted is untrue . thus run'st thou on , till thou thy way hast lost , and run'st thy heedless head against a post. look not , said they , to us , 't is our concern , that you from th' light within your duty learn ; so thou report'st . the same concern remains upon friends still , say i : their care , their p●…ns ; is exercis'd in this , that all may learn , from light within their duty , and discern the light 's true voice , which never did oppose in some , what from the same in others rose . and , if some said , look not to us ( which yet , i ne'er saw prov'd in aught that thou hast writ ) it cannot well in other sence be took , that they would not others so should look to them , as thereby to neglect or slight the inward teachings of the heav'nly light. and that , all faithful friends at this day are as careful to prevent , as e'er they were . but that friends ever ●…eemed it unright , to look to one another , in the light , to help , encourage , comfort any brother , be good examples one unto another , to stir the pure mind up , provoke to love , and to good works , ●…s god thereto doth move ; that ever this by friends condemned was , i never heard , ●…or to believe see cause . we read , that the apostles , ( chiefly paul ) on the believing christians oft did call to follow them , as they themselves were found the followers of christ : was this unsound in them ? if not , how comes it now to be exclaim'd on , as so high a crime , by thee ? but of this subject , william , thou hast writ before ; and i at large have answer'd it . what in thy book comes next , is very dark , and , as it stands , seems quite besides the mark. from th' scriptures they light , such a teacher prov'd , as into corners could not be remov'd : these are the words ; if printer be in fault , ( which i to know , have the errata sought , ●…t find no mention of it there ) then he the blame must bear , and set the author free . ●…an while , so far as i thy meaning guess , 〈◊〉 will reply , and readily confess , ●…at ev'ry one , who in the gospel-path ●…th walk uprightly , such a teacher hath , 〈◊〉 can't into a corner be remov'd , ●…hich from the holy scripture may be prov'd . ●…hich if it be of th' inward teacher meant , ●…s i to take it here , am well content ) ●…t do the scriptures plainly too declare , ●…d paul himself doth testimony bear , ●…at christ , when he ascended up on high , ●…e teachers for the work o' th' ministry . ●…d gave those teachers gifts to fit them to ●…e work he had appointed them to do . ●…e of those teachers too , in down-right terms , 〈◊〉 apostle paul himself to be , affirms . 〈◊〉 which we plainly see , our gracious lord 〈◊〉 outward teachers to his church afford , ●…ough they had the inward . and to them 〈◊〉 outwardly , he said , who do condemn 〈◊〉 me contemns ; who yield to you the e●…r , 〈◊〉 you receive , me too receive and hear . i have enlarg'd , because i see thou' rt bent to vilifie those teachers christ hath sent . thou add'st ( while speaking of teacher prov'd , that into corners could not be remov'd ) but did not preach it up , a slight to bring , on holy scriptures , pen'd for our learning . what means this , william ? dost thou any know amongst the quakers , who do now preach so ? name , if thou canst , among us all , one friend , that slights the scriptures for our learning pen'd . such dark suggestions do from envy ●…ow , and a malicious concred mind they show . for selfish ends , thou sayst , some thus did se●… , you see not right , your light directs not well . thy drift is here , the quakers to compare with the worlds teachers , who in darkness are ; and so art thou . the cases differ quite : for their objection was against the light ; but so 's not ours . you see not right , they said , the fault whereof upon the light they laid . we see , and truly , that you see not right , but far be 't from us to reproach the light. we never say , the light directs not well : we tell you , that you from the light are fell . their case with ours , doth no proportion bear , but serves to make thy envy more appear . in all these passages that i have quoted , and divers others that i have not noted , of the same tendency with these , thy aim is , by insinuation to defame gods faithful servants , and beget suspition , that they have lost their primitive condition : whenas it is indeed thyself , and those who with thee joyn . truths order to oppose . that art from truth and godliness departed , and leagu'd in war against the honest hearted ; whom , with malicious mind , and words untrue , thou , in the following lines dost thus pursue . what hypocrites , are all such quakers then , as touching souls concern , have said amen , on the meer credit of auother's lines , that seeking self , from scripture-truth's declines . here 's slander by the lump : a whole-sale trade : who are the quakers thou dost thus upraid ? come to particulars ; leave gen'ral work : deceit , thou knowst , in generals doth lurk . name none 'gainst whom thou darest undertake , the charge thou here hast publisht , good to make , and make it good too : i will then declare , he and thy self , may make an even pair . hadst thou consider'd , as it thee behov'd , how many things must in this charge be prov'd ; not only that the author of those lines , which souls concern , from scripture truth 's declines , and seeketh self ; but that some quakers do , on his meer credit , say amen thereto : it might perhaps , have thee more wary made , and the loose ramblings of thy pen have staid . but when dark envy once the eye doth blind , it bars consideration from the mind . have any told thee , that they said amen on the meer credit of another ? then prethee conceal them not , disclose their names , and let them of their follies bear the shames . but if none so have told thee , prithee , whence assum'st thou to thy self the confidence , to dive mens hearts , and undertake to know the only motive whereupon they go ? thou , that hast so derided inward s●…se , wilt not pretend , i hope , to judge from thence . and if thou hast not been expresly told by themselves , how dar'st thou be so bold and positive , that some have said amen on the meer credit of another , when , for ought thou know'st , they had an inward sense the thing was right , and said amen from thence . and that amen may to another's words in truth be said , the scripture proof affords . and for that cause th' apostle doth command , to use a tongue that people understand . in thy third page , thy mouth thou open'st wide , to rail at fox , his preachers and his pride . thy railing 's slighted , and laid under foot , and for the rest , i 'll say but this unto 't ; george fox is , of the truth , a faithful teacher , and hath been from the first : but has no preacher that he calls his . they that by thee are meant , are preachers that , as he , by christ are sent . i dare thee but one preacher to impeach , that was by him commissioned to preach . and as for pride , hadst thou been half so humble , thou hadst not climb'd so high , to take this tumble . thou sayst , he fram'd i' th' church a government . i say , not he , but christ , that had him sent . christ , by his spirit , first in him did move : the church the same , in spirit did approve . when deacons first were in the church appointed , by those that with the spirit were anointed , was that appointment to be call'd their own , or christ's , whose life and pow'r through them was shown ? paul in the church did sundry things ordain , ( bear with the word , the scripture speaks it p●…in ) for order sake . was therefore th' order his ? no sure , not his , but christ's : and so in this . thou cavil'st too , that ( after government ) preachers , approv'd by man , beyond seas went. this too , perhaps , may serve , at least is meant , 〈◊〉 kindle jealousies and discontent ●…raw unsettled minds : let 's therefore scan ●…e meaning of those words [ approv'd by man ] 〈◊〉 man thou mean'st the church ( for so i find , ●…hou hast a few lines off exprest thy mind : ) ●…d to approve , imports to own , receive , ●…end , or like : this then no room doth leave 〈◊〉 cavil : for he must be stupid grown , ●…at thinks christ's church should not christs preachers own . ●…des , i note that here thou hast not said ●…ose preachers were by man ordain'd or made ; ●…t that that they were approv'd . now 't is most plain , 〈◊〉 thing t' approve , another to ordain . ●…ey had their ordination from above : 〈◊〉 christ ordains , his church may well approve . ●…d to receive the churches approbation , 〈◊〉 to christ's servants no dis-reputation . 〈◊〉 that in righteousness and peace , says paul , 〈◊〉 christ , and in the spirit joy withal , 〈◊〉 ●…to god acceptable , and then , ●…dds he , approved also is of men . thou giv'st an hint , as if of them that went. beyond the seas , some by g. f. were sent . how prov'st thou that ? i proof thereof demand : thy proofless affirmation will not stand , ●…ch less dark hints . come , name the man that went a preaching at g. f's commandment , without an inward motion from the lord , to sound abroad his everlasting word . 〈◊〉 solemnly profess , i do not know one friend amongst us all , that e'er did so . thou sayst , the church hath cry'd once and agen 'gainst black-coats , for their being sent of men . thou envy-blinded art , and much unlearn'd 〈◊〉 truth , nor hast thou right from wrong discern'd . see'st thou no odds ? put'st thou no difference then 'twixt those that run , as only sent by men , who neither waited for , nor yet believ'd the spirit 's motion was to be receiv'd , and did 〈◊〉 mission too from such men take , as have against the spirit 's sending spake : and them that ●…wait for , and in truth rejoyce at hearing , in themselves , the spirit 's voice giving a certain echo to the sound of the same voice , when in another found ? hast thou not read , how , in the purest state of christian faith , ( as scripture doth relate ) the blest apostles sometimes others sent , and sometimes also , sent by others , went ? how oft did paul send a timothy and b titus , beloved c tychicus , d epaphroditus , e onesimus , f erastus , and g some others , true gospel-preachers , and beloved brothers ? was this like black-coats sending ? blush for shame , that e'er thy envy did thy black-coats name . canst thou imagin , they who thus were sent , on the meer motion of th' apostle went ? no : they , no question , in themselves did find the same good motion stirring up their mind . with what the good apostle did advise , the holy ghost in them did harmonize . titus his case so clearly is exprest , that it may serve to open all the rest . him paul to corinth had desir'd to go ; he thereunto a readiness doth show : but why ? god put it in his heart to do what the apostle did exhort him to . peter and iohn , luke tells us , being sent by the apostles , to samaria went. the church too , after stephen's fatal stroke , sent barnabas as far as antiock . examples of this kind are many found , the holy scriptures do therewith abound . one instance more is in my mind to give , of some that in the purest age did live , ev'n holy barnabas and blessed saul , ( whose christian name was after called paul ) that these were sent by simon , and the rest , in scripture positively is exprest : yet in the very words that follow next , it is recorded in the holy text , that they were by the holy ghost sent forth : whence plainly follows , ( and indeed 't is worth our observation ) that what those men did is to the holy ghost attributed . and there 's great reason that it should be so , since what they did , did from the spirit flow , yet , think i , not the other two did go without a motion , in themselves , thereto . but , william , that which frets thee most of all , and makes an overflowing of thy gall , i●… , that the church hath money to supply the just occasions of her ministry , when they , to preach the word , are mov'd to travel beyond the seas . at this thou thus dost cavil ; s●…h church men unto christ's church strangers are , and most rely upon their churches car : unlike those whom christ sent i' th' ministry , without a scrip , to sound the gospel free : ●…d therefore when her cash was empty'd , she , ●…v'd money for to serve the ministry . hence prating preachers turn'd the silver bait , ●…ught not a few o' th' church with zeal to wait . as favour was obtain'd by parasites , they labour'd hard to ga●…n more pro●…elites . thus , like a troubl'd sea , thou ' castest up the mire and dirt that 's in thy filthy cup : then , in a paltry kind of bal●…d tone , like scoffing ishma●…l , thou thus go'st on ; at length her papers , like to briefs , did e●…y . for money , money for the ministry . a●…d in th●… fifth page , having given a yerk a●… r●…chardson , for being an hired clerk , thou sayst , it s true , that some do frequent say , both cl●…ks and priests from th' flock obtain their pay . thy envious term of priests , as 't is apply'd to friends , is by the truth in friends deny'd . th' apostle peter call'd the saints of old a royal priesthood : we no other hold . but that christ's ministers should be supply'd with necessaries , by the church ( his bride ) is such a known and certain truth , as none , perhaps , hath e'er oppos'd , but thou alone . read but the scriptures in the margin set , and thou 'lt be forc'd to grant ( though with regret ) that 't is the churches duty , to supply th●… needful wants of all her ministry . i know , these texts which i have here inserted , have oft been misapply'd , and much perverted b●… parish-preachers , who these scriptures strain , to draw unto themselves dishonest gain . but what of that ? truth must not be refus'd , because it is by evil men abus'd : and truth it is , too plain to be deny'd , christ's church should for christ's ministers provide . what carp'st thou at then , william ? would thy muse plead that st. paul did not his priv'ledge use ? i grant he did not , in some special cases , and that too only in some factious places : and i , perhaps , if need requir'd , could name some scor●…s of friends too , that have done the same , that at their own charge have a warfare gone , and crost the seas , being chargeable to none . but what of that ? th' apostle paul we find his right assert●…d , though he had no mind to tak●… it there : and else-where doth declare , that other churches did of him take care ; that what was lacking to him , privately the macedonian brethren did supply . thus it appears , th' apostle did partake of that provision , which the church did make . and what , but envy , hath bewitcht thy mind , with what was then approv'd , now fault to find ! pretend thou canst not , that the stock is given to such as have no need thereof ; for even thy self here sayst , the church supply'd the need of those that wanted monies to proceed to go beyond seas . what a groundless cavil is this of thine ! how should such preachers travel beyond the seas , whom christ thereto doth move , and whom the church , as faithful , doth approve , if neither have they monies to proceed , nor church may , with her stock , supply their need ? may none beyond seas go , but who can spare sufficient of their own , the charge to bear ? must christ be so confin'd , he may not send any , but such as have estates to spend ? god bless us from such doctrine , and such teachers , as will admit of none but wealthy preachers . peter , we read , nor silver had , nor gold , ( so he the cripple , at the temple , told ) yet after that he travell'd far and near , by sea and land , pray , who the charge did bear , unless the church ? and is that now a crime , which was a virtue in the purest time ? no sure : though dissolute apostates slight her care , the church then did , and now doth right christ's messengers to furnish , and their need supply , when they want monies to proceed in this work. as for what thou add'st , to wit , [ if they their motion freely did submit to ●…h ' london church , and do as she thought fit : ] i count it a malicious slander , and of thee an evidence thereof deand . ●…duce one i●…iance , if thou canst ; declare one person 's name , with whom it did so fare . name one ( or else thou may'st be thought a lyar ) of whom the church in london did require , that he his motion freely should submit to her , and do therein as she thought fit . i know , 't is usual with thee to suggest the false surmizes of thy envious breast , void of all proof , and many a calumny , by thee flung at us , yet unprov'd doth ly . i know , the friends of london , to whose care and trust , those services committed are , are faithful men , and tender of the good , by whom true motions will not be withstood . they 'r such as would not break a bruised reed , nor quench the smoaking flax. yet they had need be satisfi'd , how they dispense that stock , which is the free-will offering of the flock , not limitted to any single use , ( as thou insinuatest in abuse ) but is impl●…d in a more gen'ral way , the churches common charges to defray . and , william , ask thy friends , t. c. e. m. if the accompts were not perus'd by them within these a few years , and each set his name thereto , to shew he did approve the same . thou sayst , her papers , like to briefs did cry for money , money for the ministry : but thou sayst falsly ; i thy words deny : prove them , or falshood at thy door shall ly . thy naming briefs , on this occasion , shows thy cavil from a scoffing spirit flows . paul to the church did his epistles send , in which he to their care did recommend collections for the saints . why dost not flout at those epistles too ? why cry'st not out against the papers of th' apostle paul , that they , like briefs , for money , money , call ? thy cavil doth as mach against him ly , is against us : and 't was thy subtilty , not openly of paul to shew dislike , but rather through our sides at him to strike . thy work is seen ; thy undertaking's vile ; thy spirit scornful ; frothy is thy stile . but , william , art thou sure , thou never yet to what thou termest briefs , thy name hast set ? take heed , lest while thou stones dost upward throw , they fall not back , and give thy self a blow . thy flurt at richardson , for taking pay for what , as clark , he writes , doth much bewray thy folly and injustice : is 't not fit , who works for others , should be paid for it , and that by them , who him , to work , desire ? the labourer is worthy of his hire . have you no things , call'd clerks ? from whom , i pray , do your apostate-clerks obtain their pay , save from the herd to which they do belong ? and is reward due only to the wrong ! come , william , come ; one heav'n , instructed scribe will weigh down all your pharisaical tribe . thou mention'st impositions , humane laws , ●…ms , yokes , decrees , pales , any thing to cause strange apprehensions , fears and jealousies , ( whence discontent and prejudice might rise ) in some professing truth , who have not taken root deep enough therein , not to be shaken : and that thou also mightst the church expose to the contempt and fury of her foes . but ( blest be god ) though thy mischeivous heart be desperately wicked , yet thy art hath fail'd thee : for thou art so full of fiction confusion , envy , and self-contradiction , that he must be already more than blind , who to believe thee can perswade his mind . one while thou sayst , ( but in deriding-wise ) the churches laws , are , to her members , eyes . this is a plain acknowledgment , that she would have her members with their own eyes see . yet , ten lines further off , thou sayst , she cryes , dark spirits , he that sees not with our eyes . this needs no comment : 't is so plain , that he is blind , that don't the contradiction see . but , william , here 's not only contradiction , but a foul slander too ; a lying fiction . thou , speaking of the church , here say'st , she cryes dark spirits , he that sees not with our eyes . this is a down-right falshood , i declare ; make proof on 't , if thou canst , and do not spare : acquit thy self thereof , or it shall ly upon thee , as a badge of infamy . 't is by such base dishonest tricks as these , thou thy misguided party , seek'st to please , and captivated hold : but truth thee strips , and thy deceitful workings open rips . fox is term'd head , thou say'st . i ask , by whom ? such terms ne'er from the church of christ did come . this is another slander : one would think thy heart were full of falshoods to the brink , and these run over . what a horrid sin is this of lying , when it s once let in ! and thou hast let it in so deep , that now thou tumblest out thy lyes , thou car'st not how . thou sayst , external forms by fox decreed , are set as marks to know the chaff from th'seed . this is another whisker , like the rest , hatcht by the lying spirit in thy breast , ●…rought forth by cancred envy , with design to shake the weak , and cause them to decline the way of truth . thus doth the serpent lay , his baited hooks , the simple to betray , ●…ut by the truth , his wi●…es discover'd are , that the most weak may see , and shun the snare . ●…n thy last cited words i do detect ●…o most notorious falshoods , and expect thy proof ; for what thou chargest , i deny , ●…nd turn't back on thee as a double ly. one , that external forms have been decreed ●…y fox : this is a shameless lye indeed . bring that decree forth , that it may be seen , 〈◊〉 ever any such decree hath been , that ev'ry one may with his own eyes see , ●…nd not be fain to pin his faith on thee . thy other falshood is , those forms decreed , ●…e set as marks to know the chaff from th' seed . ●…his also , as a slander , i reject , by which thou would'st unstable minds infect . ●…o forms , as marks to know the seed , are set . ●…he seed is known by weight and vertue ; yet 〈◊〉 is not void of form , but doth receive ●…s proper form , which thou can'st not bereave 〈◊〉 of , with all thy railing : truth remains ●…e same , not blemished by envy's stains . the chaff too , william , is by lightness known : ●…y lightness hath thy chaffy spirit shown . ●…rnt up , the chaff shall be with quenchless fire : ●…h william ! unto thee that day is nigher ●…han tho'rt aware . my spirit mourns to see thee raving on the brink of misery . some scatt'red flurts , with hideous exclamation , thy pamplet has at excommunication , wherewith thou mak'st a rumbling noise , to scare ●…ch as thou apprehend'st unsettled are . thou talk'st of bulls and persecution too : and with thy bulls thou mak'st a great a-do . rome thou upbraid'st us with ; but prethee whence had'st thou thy bullish term , if not from thence sp●…ak plainly , william , tell us , who thee hope u●…o that title [ bulls ] unless the pope . 〈◊〉 ●…ham'd the pope should thee so gull , to make thee take a paper for a bull ! that whilst thou of a paper wast a treating , the thought of b●…lls strait made thee fall a bleating . come , william , whilst thou writ such paltry trash , ne'e , wo●…der , if thou sometimes get'st a lash . thou 〈◊〉 whose back , the wise man says , the 〈◊〉 is for : henceforth let wisdom's path be trod . leave thy scurrilities ; cease to revile : and , if thou wilt write , learn a more cleanly stile , thy language is most loathsom : take a tast thereof , in what thou in thy tenth page say'st ; [ hence sixty six , like mercenary iudges , or rather like self-seeking slavish drudges , by satan led : ] what n●…sty terms are these ! how foul must that mind be that this can please ! no question . william , but thou , at this rate , may'st all the scolds out scold at billings-gate . as to thy cavil , that what was prepar'd by one , was past against thy iohn unheard ; thy story 's false : he had been fully heard , and faulty found , as at drawell appear'd . but this same cavil has before been brought , and answer'd fully in my antidote , to which i now refer thee , not delighting , on the same anvil to be always-smiting . thy curtailling the number of the beast , to make thy g●…ddy folk a j●…lly feast , is such a beastly prank , as n●…'er was play'd by any , that of truth profession made . what ? to prophane the text with frothy wit , and sport at what the holy ghost hath writ ? he that shall dare invent such slipp'ry tricks , may shrink the number of the beast to six . but william , nothing can more plainly show how scard that conscience is , from which did flow thy scoff , than that thou therewith dost belye the chief of christian vertues , charity . thy clamour against excommunication , shēws what thou wouldst be at ▪ a toleration for unclean spirits in the church to l●…rk , and uncontroul'd to carry on their work against the truth ; that so they might effect ? the mischief the●… design , and not be checkt . that such as in their practice do oppose the principles of truth , as do all those that pay the priest for preaching ( though they may it do , in never such a covert way ) that these , and other such ( who are no less unfaithful to the truth which they profess ) might notwithstanding from reproof be free , upon pretence they don't the evil ●…ee . that such as will , when persecution shall arise , may let truth 's testimony fall ; forsake their meeting places , skulk and hide , and closely into obscure places glide ; meet now and then , by stealth , in pit , or gill , and set a lad to watch upon an hill , or hireling like , into a cock loft creep , themselves to save , what e're befals the sheep . and though by such unfaithfulness they break the strength of others , and make many weak ▪ though they examples so pernicious show , yet should f●…r friends , and preachers , blameless go that such as hav●… in truth 's profession stood , may now , as ●…me such did before the flood , in marriages with unbelievers link , and yet expect , the church , at least , should wink . that zimri might his cozbi ( without fear of being peirced by a phineas-spear , ) from mid●…an fetch ; and with her ( as befell of old ) the plague bring upon israel . that by such mixtures , they the holy seed might stain , and introduce a mungrel breed , which half the language should of ashdod speak ; and make god's warth against his people reak . that such as list might in their discontent , the seamless garment of our saviour rent : make breaches in the church , d●…ssention sow , and cause divisions amongst friends to grow ; and that they might , although they guilty be of all these crimes , from all reproof be free ; nor only so : but to be own'd expect ev'n by that church , whose power they reject . this pleases wondrous well the libertine ; the loose licentiats think it very fine . and to be loose and yet retain their station , they baul amain at excommunication . but ( blest be god ) our saviour hath not left his church so void of power , nor her bereft thereof to be will suffer ; but that shee hath in her self full pow'r her self to free from such pretenders , who unto her cling , only that they may scandall on her bring , our saviour his disciples hath directed , that such , as private warnings had neglected , should to the churches censure be refer'd , ( which plainly shews , the church is to be heard ) and ●…whoso her neglects to hear , saith he , let him be as an heathen man to th●…e . and that the church did such cut off declare from her communion , as unruly were , in the apostles days , the texts here set sufficient are a credence to beget . this is a principle that hath a place even in nature too as well as grace . in living bodies how doth nature strive the foul and penant humours out to drive ? and reason good : for why should that remain which would corrupt the health , or beauty stain ? all liquors that have life , by defectation , ●…urge out their dregs , and make a separation . and shall christs church alone less power have , than unto natural bodies nature gave , that she must to communion those receive , who her of life and honour would bereave , no , no our saviour hath his church indu'd with pow'r , from her communion to exclude ●…ruly spirits , evil workers , those that christian order in christs church oppose . that which to other churches is a stain , 〈◊〉 that they don 't within due bounds contain themselves ; but outward paenalties impose , ●…n body , or estate , or both on those they excommunicate : which doth not stand with christian practice , or with christ's command . but william , no such things can charged be on friends ; nay , that they from such things are free , thy self hast own'd , than whom where's any more sparing , to own a truth , or to asperse more daring ? that which of persecuting thou dost tell us , 〈◊〉 but what hymeneus , or phygellus , dimas , her●…ogenes , philetus , with ●…rim alexander to●… , the copper-smith , ●…ight have objected to th' apostle paul , ●…ad they as envious been , and apt to braul . ●…or two of these th' apostle doth declare , ●…or their bold ●…lasphemies , deliver'd were ●…y him to satan : and of all the rest , ●…ome evil note , or other , is exprest . these thought , no doubt , st paul was much to blame , for casting such a blemish on their name . 't is like , they took it for a defamation ; as thou , a wounding of their reputation : and might against st paul have learnt to prate , had they but had thee for their advocate . but , william , one short answer may suffice , to stop the clamour of thy causless cries all they that into such disorders run , as cause the church their fellowship to shun , and to the world ev'n-force her to declare , that they in her communion have no share : these on themselves do that discredit bring , which thou so fain upon the church would'st fling . 't is they themselves their reputation wound : the church is only in her duty found . but o the impudence ? that friends should be ▪ with persecution tax't , and that by thee , by thee , who with some others did combine at bristol , and a kind of warrant sign , by which you took upon your selves , o base ! to order him that kept the meeting place , that friends he should not there to meet permit , because ( forsooth ! ) to you it seem'd not fit . by thee , i say , who but a while agoo , didst keep friends out at olston-meeting too ; and didst to such their meeting-house deny , as had therein a rightfull property ▪ by thee , whose party to your foul disgraces hath done the like in divers other places now after all these arbitrary tricks , the same which now , on friends the world inflicts , who can , without a just abhorrence , view thy charge 'gainst friends , for persecuting you ! thou spend'st some pages , william ▪ to inherse thy john in dobefull weeds of threadbare verse ; ●…mickle pains thou tak 't to gain some glory , ●…king rimes , unto thy lifeless story . 〈◊〉 dead : his memory , perhaps , may want 〈◊〉 odours than his friends can cast upon 't . ●…ll , make the best on 't : i no pleasure have ●…et my foot upon a dead man's grave . 〈◊〉 william , let me tell thee , couldst thou free 〈◊〉 story from the faults , that fastned be ●…n him , by the line of truth ( a book ●…hich thy title page some notice took ) ●…ld unto his credit more conduce , 〈◊〉 all the hobling rimes thy fumbling muse 〈◊〉 tag together , to revive his name , ●…ile still that book , unanswer'd , speaks his shame . ●…t leaving iohn to moulder in his urn , ●…en doth , william , unto thee return , ●…d to thy work some notice i have took 〈◊〉 what seem'd most material in thy book . 〈◊〉 all the filth that thou , and others spaul , 〈◊〉 honourable friends , in course will fall ●…pon your selves ; on them it ne'er can stick : 〈◊〉 selves your vomit up again must lick . ●…iam , thy work is weigh'd , thy spirit try'd ; ●…d both thy work and spirit are deny'd . ●…y spirit is the same that wrought of old 〈◊〉 sanballat , tobiah , and the bold ●…yrian railer , rabshakeh , who sought ●…d's work and people to have brought to nought , 〈◊〉 thou hast done : and what the prophet cry'd 〈◊〉 that case , may to thee be well apply'd . ●…he virgin hath despis'd thee , zion's daughter ●…akes thee the object of her scorn a●…d laughter . 〈◊〉 daughter of ierusalem hath shook 〈◊〉 thee her head ( with a disdainfull look : ) ●…or , whom hast thou reproached and blasphem'd , and against whom hast thou so loudly scream'd , and life thine eyes on high ? thy spleen doth swell against the holy one of israel , to this effect the prophet did declame against the proud assyrian , from whom came that cursed railer , who ev'n seems to be , in railing blasphemies , a type of thee . what nehemiah , to samballa●… said , ( when he foul slanders to his charge had laid ) that i to thee , of all thy slanders , thus , there are no such things acted , amongst us , as thy abusive pamphlet doth contein ; but out of thine own heart thou dost them feign ▪ and where thou carp'st at what we do aright , we can for truth 's sake , in reprocah delight . the lord rebuilding is his holy city , which thou and others envy ( more 's the pity ) and put forth all the strength and art you have , the work to stop , the workmen to deprave . but never be so vain , to think you can the work obstruct : 't is not the work of man. the god of heaven , he will prosper us ; and therefore we his servants , ( strengthned thus ) will rise and build , as god shall us indue with courage , strength and counsel for 't : but you no portion have , who do the work condemn , right , nor memorial in jerusalem . my soul laments your state , who once have felt that tend'ring pow'r , which stony hearts can melt , and have been in some measure , tend'red by it , but now so hardned are as to defy it : all you i mean , who have in print appear'd ( with envious hearts and conscience doubly sear'd ) to fight against the truth , and to expose god's people to the fury of their foes . and all you too , who do that work abet , although your names thereto ye have not set ah? had ye kept unto the heav'nly grace , ( which in your inward parts the lord did place ) and not , in discontented humour , run after lo-heres , lo theres , as you have done ; ye mi●…ht , in truth , the bond of peace have known , and in the spirits unity have grown , which is the churches girdle , highly priz'd by all the faithfull , though by you despis'd , whereas ( by letting in first false surmisings of others , which ere long produc'd despisings , and so made way for prejudice to enter , till cancred malice in your hearts did center ) ye now are broke , and into pieces shatter'd , and from the body and the head are scatter'd . without the camp ye stand ( oh dismal state ! ) ●…rling amongst the dogs , without the gate ; ●…elching forth slander and calumniation ●…ainst those that in the light have kept their station . oh! may the god of heaven stop your way , that ye no more the simple may betray . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e eccles. . . and . . kings . vers. . vers. . vers. . nehem . . vers. . ch. . . vers . vers. . vers. . ch. . . vers . vers. . vers. . vers. . vers. . vers. . a p . b p . . . c p. . d p. . e p. . see more p. . pag. . acts . . cor . and . phil. . . 〈◊〉 tim. . . thes . . and . . pet. . . antidote , p , &c. isa. . . ephes. . , . ti●… . . . tim. . luke . . mat . joh. . . pag. . cor. . . pag . acts . cor. . . and . . pag. . rom. . , . a cor. . phil. . . tim . . b cor. . . and . . c ephes. . . col. . , . tim. . ●… . d phil●… . . . e col . 〈◊〉 f acts . . g cor. . cor. . . v. , . ch ●… , 〈◊〉 v. . pet. . . 〈◊〉 ●… 〈◊〉 ●…im . cor . ●…l . . ●…r . . cor. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . cor. 〈◊〉 . phil. 〈◊〉 . acts 〈◊〉 tit. a in . cor. . cor. , & . mat. . ●… . pag , , , , . pag. . pag. . pag ●… ●… . prov. . . pag. . &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 see line of truth , pag. . & 〈◊〉 gen. 〈◊〉 numb . . ezra . . neh. . mat. . vers. . tim. . cor. . . rom. . gal. . . p. . . 〈◊〉 tim. . . . ti●… . . & . . . & . . r. sading . chippenham ▪ clan . kings . vers . . . neh. . . neh. . . rev. . the quakers subterfuge or evasion over-turned in the vindication of the late narrative, concerning the memorable hand of god against a quaker, and his family, in the county of lincoln. wherein the unchristianlike dealings of the quakers in their late book, entituled the anabaptists lying wonder detected, with an admonition to all christians to beware of their delusions: with some antiqueries to john whitehead, about his pretence to the ministery, and the state of the quakers congregations. james, ralph, th cent. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing j estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the quakers subterfuge or evasion over-turned in the vindication of the late narrative, concerning the memorable hand of god against a quaker, and his family, in the county of lincoln. wherein the unchristianlike dealings of the quakers in their late book, entituled the anabaptists lying wonder detected, with an admonition to all christians to beware of their delusions: with some antiqueries to john whitehead, about his pretence to the ministery, and the state of the quakers congregations. james, ralph, th cent. whitehead, john, - . p. printed for francis smith at the elephant and castle without temple bar, london : . "to the judicious reader" signed: ralph james. a reply to rudyard, thomas. the anabaptists lying wonder. includes postscript and errata at end of text. reproduction of the original in the dr. williams' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng rudyard, thomas, d. . -- anabaptists lying wonder -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (oxford) sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quakers subterfuge or evasion over-turned . in the vindication of the late narrative , concerning the memorable hand of god against a quaker , and his family , in the county of lincoln . wherein the unchristianlike dealings of the quakers in their late book , entituled , the anabaptists lying wonder detected , with an admonition to all christians to beware of their delusions : with some antiqueries to iohn whitehead , about his pretence to the ministery , and the state of the quakers congregations . eccles. . . again , i considered all travel , and every right work ; that for this a man is envied of his neighbor . london , printed for francis smith at the elephant and castle without temple bar. . to the judicious reader . when i consented to the publication of the narrative , of that remarkable reproof from the lord , against the spirit of error , which moved richardson against the way of righteousness , and to attempt the propagation of the principles of the quakers , by denouncing a curse upon me in the name of the lord , onely because of that testimony , which upon just occasion i was ready to bear against their errors ; i could hardly imagine , that any man should doubt of the truth of it , being so fully evidenced in the presence of so many witnesses , by the party himself that was most eminently concerned in it . and what man of reason will believe , that any man should voluntarily accuse himself to be a false prophet , without some powerful conviction . and why should any man complain of the hand of the lord being upon him , and his , in judgment , when there is no such thing . and what could richard anderson propose to himself , in bringing his wife three or four miles purposely , that god might be intreated to remove his stroke from her , and her children , if indeed there had be no cause ? or , why should they both declare , they were disquieted with restless pain , and their child with sores , &c. and that upon his so prophaning the name of the lord , if all was well with them ? surely in vain do men go about to out-face a thing so manifest . it is remarkable , that in all the quakers say , they take no notice of richard andersons iniquity , in taking on him that office of a false prophet , but rather seem to favor his doings in that behalf , by suggesting , as if the judgment by him pronounced , was upon me to this day , ( see their lying wonder , p. ) though it is neither witnessed by any , nor confessed by me ( as , blessed be god , there is no cause ) and yet they will in no wise believe any judgment fell on richard anderson or his family , though so much verified ! surely , should half so much have been testified of the accomplishment of richard andersons prophesie on me or mine , as hath been on the contrary , the truth thereof had been out of dispute with them ere this day . seeing then , that it cannot be denied , but richard anderson was led by the spirit of falshood , and prophesied falsly in the name of the lord ; it is far more reasonable to believe , that the lord did rebuke his folly , upon the evidence offered , then to believe he did escape unpunished under such iniquity , without , and against evidence , notwithstanding all the shifts of the quakers to help him . wherefore reader , perufe ( if thou pleasest ) what i have here offered to observation , with much further confirmation of the narrative . and believe me in this ( for it is truth ) that i have not in all that i have said , wronged my conscience , nor designed any evil against the persons of the quakers , but onely to make discovery ( so far as this providence might tend to it ) of the false ways they have chosen , that so they might escape from thence , and be saved . nor do i hereby proclaim my own glory ( as they suggest ) and we know ( for all their noise ) that it is lawful for the servants of the lord to report what god doth by them , acts . . and yet i do not pretend to work miracles ; for the truth is , it was not expected by me , that god should after that manner rebuke the vanity of the false prophet , who came to pronounce me a leper . but seeing it hath pleased him to do it thus beyond my expectation , i know i sin not in declaring it : i have more cause to think i should have sinned in concealing it . and for the removal of the affliction , it was an answer of the prayer of the congregation , and not of mine onely . indeed for printing i had no resolution , till moved by such as heard of the business , knowing my own incapacity , for a work of that nature , and ( as i said i was not without fears of the consequence : but this i willingly put upon the account of my infirmities , not being conscious of any hypocrisie in the business , though boldly charged by the quakers in that kind ; but they have a faculty to accuse beyond their ability to prove . i commit all that which concerns the matter , to his wise disposing , that knows our hearts , and will render to every one as his work shall be . thine in the love of the truth , ralph iames. the quakers subterfuge overturned , &c. although the truth of the gospel of our lord jesus christ was long ago confirmed by divers signs and wonders , and gifts of the holy ghost ; and therefore stands not in any need of further confirmation : yet the hand of god is not tied , but that he may yet ( even this way ) still his adversaries , by stretching forth his hand against them , as in former days , if so it pleaseth him , and especially against such presumptuous ones , as take upon them to denounce curses in his sacred name , against his own servants ( a practise too frequent with the quakers ) and thereby to rebuke the vanity of such false prophets , is but the accomplishment of his own word , gen. . . psal. . . now , how far forth the lord hath this way shewed himself in the controversie , depending between the baptised churches , and the people called quakers , touching the authority of the holy scriptures to try the spirits of men , or ( to express it more fully , the authority of the holy ghost , as he speaks in the scriptures , to try and judge the spirits of men , which they term the spirit of god ) under what pretence soever they come forth into the world to promote any design of religion , and particularly the spirit of the quakers , is the matter which now falls under consideration , according to a certain narrative ( lately given forth ) of some remarkable passages of gods providence , against the dictates of the quakers spirit : which narrative i will here insert ( because this book may come where the first did not ) and vindicate the same against the vain cavils and reproach cast upon it by the quakers in their book entituled , the anabaptists lying wonder ; to which , i now address my self by making good these ensuing particulars . . that the matter reported in the narrative , is no lying wonder , as it is untruly and immodestly represented in their title page . . that richard anderson was a quaker in principles , and did own the quakers above all people , and was acted by the same spirit , and had frequent conversation with them touching their principles . . that he and his family was afflicted , as is said in the narrative . . that he and his , were delivered from affliction , as reported in the narrative . . that the evidences brought by the quakers to invalidate the narrative , are either forged , or unworthily abused . . that the baptists and independants used no juggling , touching any thing relating to the narrative . . a recital of sundry abusive expressions and passages scattered throughout the quakers pamphlet . . an exhortation or admonition to all christians , to beware of the delusions of the people called quakers . . some antiqueries to john whitehead , the author of the postscript . and first , . that the matter reported in the narrative , is no lying wonder , &c. is thus shewed , because it is neither false in it self , nor brought to maintain any falshood , nor to oppose any truth , and consequently cannot be a lying wonder , sith these are the particulars of which , in part , or in whole , all lying wonders do consist . now what this matter was in it self , shall appear in the probation of the third and fourth particulars ; and , that it was not brought to maintain falshood , or oppose any truth , is thus evinced , viz. because it was brought to vindicate the just authority of gods holy scriptures and ordinances ; and onely to oppose the spirit of falshood , which led richard anderson into the sin of a false prophet , as appeareth by reading the narrative it self . the narrative : richard anderson of panton , about ten miles from lincoln , came to our meeting at northwillingham , to hear the gospel preached ; who when he had been a hearer for some time , was convinced , and said , he did believe the baptism in water was an ordinance of god , and that both men and women ought to be baptised in water , as taking jesus christ for our leader and example ; so he went away for that time : but before he came again , he met with the people called quakers , who told him , ( as himself confessed ) that he must not look upon these outward ordinances , for they were low , [ but the way of life above to the wise , prov. . . note also , that the ordinances of christ , as well as the authority of the scripture , is opposed by the false prophet , and consequently defended by the fulfilling his prophesie upon himself and family , ] but that now he must mind the light within , and be guided by it , and not by the scriptures , for they were a dead letter . to which light , he gave such heed , that when he came to our meeting again , he much contended against the baptism of water , and said , that now they were to be baptised with the baptism of the spirit , and not with water ; for the spirit was to try the scriptures , and not the scriptures to try the spirit . in answer to which , i said , that i believed that the scriptures were to try the spirits , and not the spirits to try the scriptures ( meaning as before is said , that the holy spirit , as he speaketh in the scripture , is to try and judge the spirits of men , and particularly the quakers spirit , which they call the light within ) he seemingly made light of it , and said , that now we must mind the light within . in answer to which , i said i was afraid that the quakers were deceived , and guided by a spirit of delusion ; and , that it was my judgment , that all the sons and daughters of men ought to be guided by the scriptures , as being the oracles of god , and the rule for us to walk by ; and he for the light within , to be the rule for the sons and daughters of men to be guided by . but as for every particular of our discourse , it is out of my remembrance ; so he went away for that time . and the light which the quakers did tell him ( as he said , he must be guided by , commanded him within a short time after , so that he came very early one morning to my house and inquired for me ; so i went to him , and he told me , that he was commanded of god to come and reprove me for speaking against the people of god ( as he said ) called quakers , and to exhort me to turn to the light within , [ here he speaks the very language and spirit of the quakers , ] or else he was ( as he said ) to pronounce a judgment against me . i told him , that i thought him to be a false prophet , and possessed with a spirit of delusion ; then he said , he was commanded of god to pronounce me a leper , from the crown of the head , to the sole of the foot . in answer to these words , i said to him , through the goodness of god , i am not discouraged at what thou sayest ; but do believe thou art a false prophet , and possessed with a spirit of delusion ; and that i am not to take any notice of what thou sayest : but i do desire , withal my heart , that the lord would be pleased to let thee see thy evil , and the error of thy way , that thou mayest report and confess thy error , that the name of god may be honored , his ways and appointments exalted , and so his people may be better established , and confirmed in his ways and appointments . so we parted , and he went a little way from me , but returned again , and said unto me . thou sayest , that i am a false prophet , deceived , and possessed with a spirit of delusion ; but it will be known by me or mine , or thee , whether i be a true prophet , or false one ; and so he went home . but within a short time after he came home , the lord was pleased to smite one of his children ( as he said ) spotted all over , himself and wife , and his other children were taken with a restless pain in their bodies also ; so that he was forced ( as he said ) to come again and confess he was deceived , and that he was a false prophet , and the same judgment [ lo here is the true interpretation of the judgment intended by the false prophet , and not that which the quakers fictitiously give out in their lying wonder , p. . ] he had pronounced against me , was faln upon one of his children , and that himself and wife , and other children were taken with a restless pain in their bodies : and he said , that he and his wife did believe , that if i would pray to god for them , they might all be restored again to their former healths . in answer to his words , i told him i could not at present give an him answer , but if he and his wife would please to meet me at donnington , where i am to be by promise , the next lords day , it may please god that your desire may be answered . he being very sad at that time , i fell a speaking to him , and asking him some questions about the light within , which the quakers bad him mind , and be guided by : and he told me , that that light many times would , when he had sat down to eat his meat , and had drawn his knife to cut it , have commanded him to put it up again ; and so ( he said ) he had done several times , and gone without his meat : and that light also ( as he said ) perswaded him to fast , and told him , that he should cure the sick . in obedience to which perswasion , he did fast , and came to our town of northwillingham , to the house of one iohn lamin , whose child was then sick and weak ; and he told me , he went to cure that child , but that light and perswasion did deceive him , for he now saw he could not cure the sick . so according to my promise , i went to donnington , and he and his wife met me there amongst our friends , and did both confess what is here before mentioned , who also desired our prayers to god for them , and so i with the congregation there met together , did seek unto god for the removing that distemper and affliction , which he there with his wife confessed , that they and their children were under : and the lord was mercifully pleased to hear our poor prayers for them , and to restore them all to their former health again , which he himself confessed when he came to our meeting afterwards ; to the praise of god alone , for ever be it spoken . this relation is true witness my hand . ralph iames of northwillingham in the county of lincoln . as it is hence evident , this act of gods providence was not brought to maintain any falshood , so neither to oppose any truth of god , but onely to oppose the falshood of that spirit which moved the deluded quaker richard anderson to prophesie falsly in the name of the lord ; and though the evil he pronounced against me , fell on himself , and that so sensibly , as to convince him of his folly ; yet notwithstanding this , the quakers in their lying wonder , will needs insinuate the fulfilling of that vain prophesie upon me , as if their prophet meant it not of outward diseases — and that for ought appears , they say ( in effect ) that i am as leperous as miriam was to this day . after this manner they may shift off the most manifest eviction of their falshood , and so delude their unweary readers : but surely , he that uttered the vain prophesie against me , must in reason know his own meaning better then another . and sith he was convict by the hand of heaven , in smiting him with bodily diseases , and by sparing me in that kind , i shall take this authors interpretation to be impertinent , and as false as the prophesie it self . [ a false prophesie as he designed it against me , a true prophesie against himself and the quakers . ] thus it appears , what befel richard anderson the quaker , was no lying wonder ; and therefore the title of the quakers book is not true . . that richard anderson was a quaker in principles , and own'd that people above all others , and was acted by their spirit ; is palpable enough from what is said in the narrative . first , in that he contributes his testimony to that which they call the light within , at as high a rate , as the most of that way , which ( if they have any principles at all ) is the cheis of their principles ; for he advanceth it above the holy scriptures , and prefers its dictates in opposition to the ordinances of christ. secondly , in that he took upon him to appear as a prophet for the quakers , condemning such as opposed them , and proclaiming them to be the people of god. thirdly , by his acting after the manner of divers quakers in these days , going on unsent errands , onely moved by the conceits of their own hearts , which they call the light in them . but since the quakers in their lying wonder , do so boldly deny that he was a quaker , here therefore what is attested in that case [ iune . ] since the publication of the quakers lying wonder , in the presence of credible witnesses hereafter named , who ( as they write , ) having a desire to be fully satisfied concerning that which passed between ralph iames and richard anderson , and having seen the narrative and the lying wonder , it was demanded of richard anderson , whether he ever heard the quakers ? he answered , yes , he heard them at lincoln , within the prison , about the space of an hour [ and it is known by sad experience , that many in as little time , as that is , have been so levened with their principles , as they have not been cleansed from the corruption thereof to the day of their death . ] and being further shewed , that the quakers in their lying wonder , do say , that he had no further acquaintance or knowledge of their principles then , by the hearing them a quarter of an hour . richard anderson affirmed , that before he was at the meeting at lincoln ; and after also , he had discourse with the people called quakers forty times , touching their principles , saying moreover , that after he had been with the quakers , he went to the meeting at northwillingham many times , to contend against the baptists , more then for any thing else . moreover he declared ( without any inquiry , ) that the reason why he went to pronounce richard iames a leper , arose from the consideration of a passage , numb . . and that he looked upon the people called quakers , to be as eminently owned of god , as moses ; so he was perswaded , god would send the same judgment on ralph iames for contending against the quakers , as he sent on mirriam , for contending with moses . all this relation is attested by christopher foster , william skin , iohn walesby , robert trigg , and richard horton . iuly . . this last passage the said richard anderson did again relate almost word for word , in the presence of christopher foster aforesaid , and three strangers which came out of oxfordshire , to have satisfaction concerning the narrative ; at which time also , being asked by these strangers concerning the truth of the narrative , he said , as to the substance of it , it was all truth , and that he would own it before any man. this is subscribed by william greenwood iohn stutchbury iohn grammar the oxfordshire strangers . and by christopher foster , as ear witnesses . the same general testimony of the truth of all the narrative , for the substance of it , he the said richard anderson did deliver at another time , a few days before the last mentioned , in the presence of christopher foster , iohn walesby , william skin , robert trigg , richard horton . thus it appears , that richard anderson was a quaker , &c. nor can we have a better testimony , then a man 's own confession in this case ; for he must needs know his own opinions better then another man : nor is it possible for us to prove , what conversation ( in all respects ) he had with them , because remote from him , and not concerned in the quakers congregations . and whether a man 's own confession for matter of opinion , being attended with those demonstrations of the matters of fact hereby observed , be not a cogent proof to satisfie indifferent men , i must leave the sober reader to judge for his own satisfaction . . that he the said richard anderson , and his family , was afflicted by the hand of god upon him , as is said in the narrative . here the quakers make a very strange out-cry against me for evidence , as if richard anderson , and his wives testimony , were nothing in this case ? surely , since the world was , there could never be a more cogent evidence against any man ( ordinarily ) then himself ; and it s a maxim , where there is open confession , there needs no evidence . and one would think the father and mother of a family , knows best the state of their children ; and let the serious reader consider , how unreasonable it would have been for me , to doubt of the truth of what richard anderson and his wife , both testified of their own pains , and of the sores of their child , &c. and that with great sorrow of heart , especially seeing him come the second time , and bring his wife with him three or four miles ( a person not wont to come to our assemblies ) to attest , and request the same things , which he himself did ; and sith i had no ground to doubt , i had no necessity to go ( being not requested , nor any way related to any one of them , in point of religion ) yet had i foreseen this peevishness in the incredulous quakers , i might perhaps have deprived them of this their foolish advantage . but what shall i say , did our blessed saviour go to visit all , ( matth. . . ) for whose health he prayed , i trow not . neither did paul , that chosen vessel , acts . . visit all whom he was instrumental to heal ; for this they sent to him , and so had from his body again , their aprons and kercheifs , and by faith received healing , yet we read not of his going to the places of their abode . [ but what am i ! o lord , i confess unto thee , i am not worthy to be mentioned here ; nor was i an instrument of good to the afflicted , any more then the rest of thy servants met together to make their prayers unto thee . ] but now let us hear what richard anderson himself hath testified before many witnesses in this case , since the publishing of the narrative , and the quakers lying wonder . iune . . the witnesses hereafter named write thus . we asked him ( meaning richard anderson ) when he had told us , that he did pronounce the judgment of leprosie against ralph iames , whether he himself had not a child presently after that , was leprous ; and he said , he had a child then that did break out into sores ; and he did also acknowledge , that he went to ralph iames to desire his prayers for the reparation of himself and his family . witness robert wright , william leesing , william skin , george hall. robert hollingworth . and for the eye and ear-witnesses which the quakers call for , upon the occasion of that passage in the title page of the narrative , and the wonderment they make that no neighbor or kinsman can be brought to testifie their knowledge of this judgment . to this i answer , first , that there are of the neighborhood that say , they do remember about the time to which the narrative hath relation ( which is about nine years since ) the said richard andersons family was afflicted , but being unwilling to have their names brought in question , and there being no necessity for it , because we have that which is above the evidence of a neighbor , even the testimony of the parents concerning themselves , and their own children . i shall therefore forbear to mention their names . secondly , for the title page of the narrative , i say , it was not of my composing , and yet even that passage ( or any like to it ) is not without truth ( being candidly interpreted ) for there was as much evidenced both to the eye and ear of the witnesses , in respect of the affliction of the parents of the family , as was subject to such observation , viz. a sorrowful countenance , their complaint , and humble confession . . that richard anderson and his family were delivered from their afflictions , as it is declared in the narrative . although the quakers are pleased in their lying wonder to deny this , and do bear their unmindful readers in hand , as if none of the witnesses to the narrative , do evidence any thing in this case ; yet several of them do clearly attest the whole relation in the narrative to be true ; one branch whereof is this , — the lord was mercifully pleased to hear our poor prayers for them , and to restore them all to their former health again ; which he himself ( that is , richard anderson ) confessed when he came to our meeting afterwards . true it is , they did not see the child , nor perhaps the woman after their recovery ; yet they saw the father of the family , whose testimony for himself , and for his family in this case , is considerable , notwithstanding all the cavillations in the quakers lying wonder . hear also what he the said richard anderson hath testified since the publication of the narrative , &c. iune . . richard anderson being asked in the presence of divers persons , whether he did not go to ralph iames and desire his prayers to god for him and his family ? he answered , yes , he did so , and that ralph iames did appoint him and his wife , to meet him at donnington , where prayer was put up to god for them by the congregation there met together . and being asked , if he thought any person could be sadder for the loss of any relation or dear friend , then he was at that time when the hand of the lord was upon him ; he answered , no , for he was sad enough . in answer to this question , whether he did not come the next lords day , after the congregation at donnington had prayed for them ; and there confess , that he and his family was all recovered , and in health again . he answered , yes , he did so ; and said moreover , that what he said then , he would own it at any time , for he could not deny it . witness to the first part. robert wright , william leesing , robert hollingworth , william skin , george hall. witness to the second part. christopher foster . william skin . . that the evidences brought by the quakers to invalidate the narrative , are either abused , or by them most unworthily forged . for although they pretend a testimony from richard anderson , that he was no quaker , yet doth he not say so , in all that which they say he subscribed , onely this is said , that he was but at one meeting , read but one of their books ; and yet it is proved before , that he had discourse with the quakers forty times about their principles , both before and after he was at the meeting at lincoln . what therefore no quaker ? surely some have become their proselytes , by as little acquaintance with them , as this amounts to . i could tell them of one ( and that a man of no small eminency ) who onely went down a yard with one of their teachers , and came up again a quaker , without hearing any other preaching or reading any book at all , and so remained to the day of his death . again , they pretend , that he the said richard anderson hath subscribed , that he and his family was clear from any leprosie or distemper , but they offer no evidence at all of that subscription ; but let us hear what richard anderson saith now , to their pretended subscription . the lying wonder being read in pag. . to richard anderson , touching that relation which is said to be subscribed by him , iune . . the said richard anderson did affirm , that they ( to wit , the quakers ) did write a paper , and desired him to set his hand to it ; but he said he neither knew what was in the paper , nor what he set his hand unto . and whereas they pretend one katherine hall ( an alewife in panton ) to be an evidence ; hear what she hath said . being asked concerning this matter , she said , i know not what they had written , which they desired richard anderson to set his hand to , and they desired to know my name , but i would not tell it them ; then they said they would learn it of some in the town ; and they being thus importunate with me , i told them my name . witness christopher foster . william skin . iuly . . the said katherine hall being asked at another time , by the persons hereafter named , whether she had set her hand to a paper written by the quakers , concerning the narrative of ralph iames ; to this she answered , no , she did not set her hand to any paper ; but they desired her name to a paper , but she would not give it them . then they desired to know her name , and she refused to tell them her name . hereupon they said , if she would not tell her name , they would learn it in the town . she answered , i am not ashamed of my name , and so she told it them . being asked , whether she lived in panton when that passage fell out between ralph iames and richard anderson , she said , no , it is thirteen years since i went away from panton , and it is but five since i came hither again ; and for that matter between those men , she knew nothing of it . witness william greenwood , iohn grammar , iohn stutchbury , christopher foster . hence it appeareth , what conscience those men make of these their doings ; and how falsly they pretend this poor alewives subscription , who it seems , perceiving their designs , was unwilling so much , as to tell them her name . and here it shall not be amiss to note , that they are very busie to get more evidence to their false cause ; and what conscience they use in that respect , may be discerned from this relation following . iuly . . katherine hall aforesaid , being asked , if there had not been some men with richard anderson lately ( for it was reported the quakers had been with him ) she said , yes , there was six men came to talk with him , who were quakers , and they called for much ale , and brought it into the street , bad the people drink what they would ; and if they would have more , they should have it . [ probably to move the people to be friend them with the more liberal testimonies . ] and hereupon it was reported by one of the quakers , to the forenamed christopher foster , that richard anderson had denied all that formerly he had said , meaning it of his owning the narrative : wherefore christopher foster , with others , ( this christopher foster is a person of good repute , living in the town of binbrooke in lincolnshire ) spake to richard anderson , and asked him of the narrative , whether he owned it to be true or not , and he said , as to the substance of it , it is all truth , and that he would own it before any man. attested by william greenwood , iohn grammar , iohn stutchbury , christopher foster . . the baptists and independants free from any juggling in giving forth the narrative ; nor doth the quakers in their lying wonder , make the least evidence appear , that can be termed an evidence in this case . they say ( and onely say ) that richard anderson is a member of the independant and baptist people , and yet it appears not , that he ever heard the independants at all ; and it is certain , he was never baptised , and so not a member of any baptised church in lincolnshire ; nor are the independants concerned for ought that appears ; in the publication of the narrative , there are onely two or three places where they are mentioned , but no way as confederates with the baptists , onely peter stacy is brought in as an evidence , that richard anderson owned the relation given by ralph iames , to be true . true it is , they were joyntly concerned in a dispute against the quakers , but it was not at all about this controversie ; nor can their being named in i. greens letter , make them jugglers , sith there he onely complains , that the quakers abused them both as liers , when yet there was nothing that appeared on the independants part . onely mr morley had given a relation of the matter , to some of his friends in london . but what is this to the independants ? what evil hath he done in this matter ? that he should have this odious brand of a juggler claped on his back ; and as if this were too gentle an epithite they give him , the black mark of horrid li●r , and yet it appears not , that he hath said any thing at all ( in a manner . ) however , nothing that is blame-worthy in this matter at all . and though the anabaptist is charged with the same crimes , yet most unjustly , as hath already been evinced . and very unjust is that which is said in the quakers lying wonder , pag. . that this story was found upon inquiry , made of ralph iames and richard anderson , to be a feigned imagination six years ago ; then which , nothing can be more untruly spoken ; for i have constantly affirmed , what now i have declared in the narrative , and see no cause to this day to recal it . if the independants in new england be no further culpable of the fault charged on them , then those our neighbors in this case , the quakers are very injurious in what they have reported , pag. . of this their lying wonder . and thus have we seen an end of this pretended juggle . . a particular recital of sundry abusive expressions , scattered throughout the quakers lying wonder . it is a true saying , that evil words , corrupt good manners ; and therefore must needs be more corrupting in matters of religion . now in this liberty of ill speaking , many professors have been justly reproved ; and this generation of men called quakers , do seem to exceed others in this miscarriage . i might fill much paper , should i recapitulate what of this kind i have met with from them , it shall suffice therefore , that we view how this small book of theirs is furnished ; that by a taste from thence , we may know the fountain whence they draw that which they so freely fill out to others . let us hear them speak . . they call their book , the anabaptists lying wonder , which is a title as far from modesty , as it is from truth . . they call the baptists and independants , iugglers , and horrid liers , and that without cause , as is shewed . . they scornfully call ralph james , an anabaptist preacher , a testing preacher ; a lying herald to proclaim his own vain glory . they charge him with horrid hipocrisie , deceit , and a romance . . they represent the baptists and independants , as makers and worshippers of images . . they term the narrative a brat crying in our streets , a fragment of deceit , cruelty , malice , and hipocrisie ; and the methods of its writing , they term irksom . . they scornfully term the narrative , a new vampt story , hereby deriding j. green by his calling , for that he is a shoomaker . . they tauntingly call j. greene , a zealous london - brother , and charge him with envious desires . . they charge ralph james to be uncharitable beyond measure , because he visited not richard andersons family , though he was not desired . this shews what measure the quakers give to those whom they love not , in their representment of them to the world , and whiles they tax ralph james for want of charity , they bewray their own barrenness of that grace . . they deride the baptists and independants , saying , they buoy one another up ; and term them an hipocritical generation . . they term the relater , and evidencs of the narrative , imposters , whose evidence ( they say ) centers in the same pitch of folly and falsity . . they scornfully call f. baldock , one of the sacrificers for the leper , because he is a witness that the church at donnington , prayed for richard anderson and his family . . they represent j. greene as a fool and a knave , by his own handy-work ; thereby deriding him for calling the judgment which befel richard anderson , the lords handy-work . . they charge their opposites to be guilty of horrid deceit , and term them an hipocritical fraternity , because the time when that judgment which befel richard anderson for his presumptuous undertaking , was not set down . but sure this is the way to make the very apostles , &c. hipocrites too ; for though many of those things which god did by them , be set down , and that long after they were done too , yet the time is seldom mentioned . and what would it have signified , if the time had been precisely set down ( for that the business was more ancient , then of yesterday , was sufficiently intimated in the letters printed ) seeing the men concerned , are both living , the places of their abode known , and easie to be found by any that would know further concerning that matter . . but it s not sufficient that they deride men , but they deride the way of the lord ( and therein god himself ( mal. . , . ) also : as every discerning reader may perceive , by reading page . of their lying wonder , where having occasion to mention baptism the ordinance of god , they add this parenthesis ( that is , dipping in water ) and before that , another thus , ( that is , dipt , ) thereby to mislead their inconsiderate readers , as if the ordinance of baptism were onely a dipping in water ; whereas every dipping in water may not be called the ordinance of god , having nothing of that divine signification , of christs dying for sin ; and rising again for our justification , and our dying to sin ; and rising to a new life ; as the sacred ordinance of god hath , i mean , the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , wherein the washing or dipping in the element water , in the sacred name of the father , son , and holy spirit , is to be observed according to christs commission , matth. . . and the apostles injunction , acts . & . , . and christs own practice , matth. . . john . . & . , . . an exhortation to all christians to beware of the delusions of the people called quakers . nor can i do less ( having this occasion put into my hand ) then to admonish and exhort all christians to look well to their goings ; for , let us know assuredly , that the days are perillous , because the time is come , wherein that doctrine which is according to godliness ( even the words of our lord jesus christ ) and , that form of sound words delivered to the churches by the holy apostles ; that form of doctrine once obeyed from the heart ; that faith once delivered to the saints ; is now in every place turned from , or lightly regarded , by many pretending to the high calling of christianity ; and they are therefore , and shall be more and more turned into fables , according as is foreshewn in the word of truth . wherefore seeing we know these things before , let us beware , least at any time we be led away with the errors of these days , and fall from that stedfastness in the apostles doctrine and fellowship ; to which , through the grace of god , we have attained . and above all , let us beware of those ; who either directly or indirectly , deny the onely lord god and our lord jesus christ , whiles they believe not his death , resurrection , and ascension , and second coming according to the scriptures : but in stead of those necessary points of the christian faith , labor to refer ( by obscure ways , and a fair shew of words ) all these things , to the work of mortification , and what they ( pretend ) to experience in themselves . labor therefore to distinguish between the work of christ in redeeming man , and the work of his spirit and word , in sanctifying his people . hold fast the first by faith , and labor to live in the latter by blessed experience : waiting for the redemption of your bodies , in the glorious resurrection of the just ; according to the working , whereby our lord jesus is able to subdue all things to himself . and be not deceived by any means , by the empty boasts of some in those days , as if they had already obtained to the resurrection of the dead , saying , that they even now do witness mortality to be swallowed up of life , with divers other such great swelling words of vanity . but ever remember , that paul in his greatest attainments , wherein he heard things too high to be uttered to the churches ; yet had he not then no , nor to this day , attained to the resurrection of the dead , but labored , if by any means he might attain it . and follow not those who indirectly ( or by consequence ) deny jesus christ , i mean those that deny his commandments ; for , as one hath well said , such as deny those things which christ hath ordained to declare and keep in memory , his coming in the flesh , his dying , rising , ascension , and second coming , do ( at the best , unawares ) by consequence deny him to be come in the flesh. by these things which are ordained to declare christ come in the flesh , &c. i mean all gospel institutions ; for whether it be preaching , and praying , according to the word , sacred baptism , or the table of the lord , &c. they serve to this end specially , to hold forth christ , and him crucified , to come again and receive his servants into his everlasting kingdom . and thus the holy gospel being duly observed in all its parts , with a constant waiting for the son of god from heaven , even jesus who was raised from the dead , you shall be found unto praise and honor , for keeping the ordinances , here , as they were delivered to the churches , and to the glory of god hereafter ; for if any man will serve christ , him will the father honor . . antiqueries to john whitehead , author of the postscript annexed to the lying wonder . in the postscript , i note three things . . john whitehead calls himself a laborer in the gospel . . he calls the quakers , the people of god. . it is said richard anderson was not joyned to , or owned by the people called quakers . upon these particulars i quere . . whether he be fitly called a laborer in the gospel , who holds that the gospel was never preached in england , till george fox preached it ? ( not yet forty years ago . ) and whether thou did not assert this ? and being admonished of the consequence of that saying , viz. that then the gospel preached by fox , could not be the gospel of christ , because christs gospel was preached in england many hundreds of years before fox was born , whether thou did not still persist in thy assertion with this emendation , that the gospel was not preached in england , as it is preached by the people of god called quakers , till george fox preached it ? and whether this do not make the matter worse ? and is it not hence evident ? that thou laborest not in the gospel of christ , but the gospel of george fox , which being no gospel , it follows thou art no laborer in the gospel . . whether he that holds that nothing which was mortal , was called christ , doth not thereby deny the death of christ ? and whether thy conscience do not tell thee , thou asserted this ; and being shewed the sequel of thy words , ( viz. that then christ died not , ) and an offer made by thy opposite , to recal that saying , if thou thought thou wast mistaken ? whether then did not thou refuse to recal it ; and chose rather to persist in thy error . and whether he that holds this dangerous position , can truly preach the dying of the lord jesus for sin ? and how then can he preach the gospel . . whether he that shall assert . that christ hath no body of flesh , beside his church , can preach truly the resurrection , ascension , and second coming of the body of our lord christ , according to scripture . and whether thou did not assert this before many witnesses ! and if thou still art of the same opinion , how canst thou truly labor in the gospel ? . whether by the words ( people of god ) thou means the church of christ , in visible profession of the gospel , according to the pattern of the churches in the apostles days ? . whether the people called quakers , are gathered , constituted , and governed , in a church capacity , according to the doctrine of christ and his apostles , matth. . . acts . . to . & . , . & . , , , , , . heb. . . ephes. . , , , , , , , , . tit. . . acts . . phil. . . cor. . . . if not , ( as doubtless not ) then shew by what authority , and when that first order of gathering , constituting , and governing the churches of christ was abrogated ; and another way instituted instead thereof ? . whether it be not sufficient for any to judge him to be a quaker , that having conversed with them , receives their doctrine , opposes the truths by them opposed , and upon the same pretences ; and owned not onely their doctrine , but their persons as the onely people of god , acts by their spirit , and prophesies or preaches in their behalf , and hath frequent conversation with them ? ( and whether the quakers have any constant and visible order , to receive members into their congregations ? and if they have , then shew what it is ? ) and whether richard anderson had not all these ( demonstrable ) characters ; and therefore justly said to be a quaker ? a postscript of the light within . because every truth ought to have its just estimation , and the design of the precedent discourse , being not to oppose any light which god hath ordained for mans direction , whether that which is common to all ( ordinarily ) at all times , by some called the light within , or that which hath been manifested at sundry times , and divers manners . it shall not be inexpedient here to propose a few things : and first , . it is certain ( and not denied by the baptised churches ) that god almighty hath endowed mankind with a principle of light , vnderstanding , or iudgment , to lead him to the consideration and observation of things good and honest among themselves , and to contemplate the divine goodness it self from the consideration of his wonderful works , and to render to him the honor of his mercies , &c. for as there is a certain relation between the creator , and a rational creature , even thence arises a necessity of obedience on the creatures part . whereupon it behooveth , that he know him , and in general , what is his will , whom he is to serve : and this is the great work of the law written in the heart of man , rom. . . but it is in the liberty of the creator to give further , what particular discoveries of himself , and of his will he pleases , beyond the extent of this common principle of light. and this he did to adam , in forbidding by a positive law the fruit of one tree , which without that prohibition had brought no inconvenience to eat thereof , seeing it was good for food ; and therefore not sin , as some do vainly interpret this place . . that there is in the godhead the distinction of father , son , and spirit ; and that mans salvation must depend on the death of the son ; that he , to that end , should be born of a woman ( even the blessed virgin , mary by name ) that he should rise from death , and ascend the heavens , come to raise the dead , and judge the world ; are things wholly beyond the reach of the common principle of light in man , and onely known by particular revelation from the omnificient god , who revealed these things to the prophets , confirmed them by his son , and hath witnessed the same by the apostles . . that the oeconomy , order , or government of the church , should vary , viz. be of one form in the old world ; of another from abraham till christ ; of a third , from christ to the end of the world ; is that , of which the common principle of light in man , fails to give any ac●ount : onely the wisdom and pleasure of the creator , is the ground and cause of this alteration ; to which , the light of mans understanding must be subordinate . . that abraham must cut off the foreskin , and his posterity observe the same for a law , under pain of being cut off from the people of god , is no way perceivable by the principle of light in man , but may seem to be repugnant to it . . that the saviour of the world should come to be baptised of john in jordan , and that it should become all his disciples to follow him in that act of obedience : that israel must commemorate their deliverance out of egypt by the paschal observation ; and christians their deliverance from sin and satan , by the bread and cup at the lords table , &c. is that which the principle of light in man does not dictate , but he onely , who without controul , might require abraham to offer his own son for a sacrifice , required these things , and must be obeyed , when , and in what he requires . . the sum of all , is this , the general principle of vnderstanding , light , or iudgment in man , is capable of improvements , and it is onely improved , by how much it is subordinate to the will of god , as well in the lesser , as in the greater things of his appointment . and therefore the quakers undeniably opposing themselves against many things required by the positive laws , and made known by the revelation of the almighty , concerning mans redemption ; and the order of the church of christ , are not obedient to , nor sincere favorers of the light within , but are under the guidance of the spirit of darkness and error , in such their opposition . reader , whereas it is said both in word and in print , that i iohn green of southwark , deny the truth of the narrative given forth by ralph iames touching the leprosie . these may certifie all whom it doth concern , that i do believe the said narrative to be a truth , and do appeal to the conscience of several quakers ; whether i did not , both by word and writing , acknowledge the same to their faces , though by some of them pressed to deny it ; and now they have contrary to their promise published my name in print . this testimony is true , witness my hand iohn green. sept. . attested in the presence of these witnesses , william vridge , timothy morloy , iohn smith , peter s●ager , all living in southwark . errata . pag . line . for richard read ralph . finis . a woe against the magistrates, priests, and people of kendall in the county of westmerland, pronounced from the lord by one of his prophets. which may warn all the persecuting cities and towns in the north, and every where, to repent and fear the lord, lest the decree go forth against them. also the stumbling-block removed from weak mindes, who are offended at the strange signs and wonders acted by the servants of the lord, scornfully called quakers in the northern parts of this nation. howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a woe against the magistrates, priests, and people of kendall in the county of westmerland, pronounced from the lord by one of his prophets. which may warn all the persecuting cities and towns in the north, and every where, to repent and fear the lord, lest the decree go forth against them. also the stumbling-block removed from weak mindes, who are offended at the strange signs and wonders acted by the servants of the lord, scornfully called quakers in the northern parts of this nation. howgill, francis, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london, : printed in the year, . signed: f.h., i.e., francis howgill. annotation on thomason copy: "decemb: [crossed out] th january"; the in the imprint date has been crossed out and replaced with " ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng quakers -- england -- kendal -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a woe against the magistrates, priests, and people of kendall in the county of westmerland, pronounced from the lord by one of his prophets. howgill, francis c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - angela berkley sampled and proofread - angela berkley text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a woe against the magistrates , priests , and people of kendall in the county of westmerland , pronounced from the lord by one of his prophets . which may warn all the persecuting cities and towns in the north , and every where , to repent and fear the lord , lest the decree go forth against them . also the stumbling-block removed from weak mindes , who are offended at the strange signs and wonders acted by the servants of the lord , scornfully called quakers in the northern parts of this nation . london , printed in the year , . the word of the lord came unto me saying , write and declare against that bloody town of kendall , and leave it without excuse . hear ye which pretend to be rulers , and ye that pretend to be teachers , and ye people , the trumpet of the lord is sounded , gather your selves together , for i will plead with you , your iniquities are come up before me , and your transgression is come into mine ears ; wo , wo , and misery is coming upon you , you shall be as sodome and gomorrah , and as admah and zeboim ; desolation and a crie , a crie , lamentation , howling , bitternesse and sorrow shal come upon you at unawares , the sword of the lord is drawn against you , it is sharpned for a great slaughter , and you shall be cut off , because you have despised my name , and troden under foot my precepts , and walk after your own wils , and the imagination of your own hearts ; and yet saith the lord , they say i am amongst them : wo unto you hypocrites , i am weary of you , and of all your profession it stinks in my nostrils , and i abhor it as much as if ye slew a man ; you have slain my son , you have mocked my prophets , and despised my messengers which i have sent early and late to forewarn you of the evill to come , have not i wrought signes and wonders amongst you , as ever was in any day , or from the beginning , have not i made the mountains tumble down in your sight , have not i caused my judgments to fall upon them that have set themselves against me ? have not i cleansed the lepers ? have not i quickned and raised them out of the grave , which were dead in sins and trespasses ? have not i brought down the proud ? have not i exalted the low ? have not i caused the weak things to confound the wise ? have not i sent signs among you , and have sent my servants to declare against you , as i did to nineveh , and have you not heard it ? have not i commanded my servants to go bare and naked in your sight , to be a sign to you that your covering is now rent , and your garment is to bee torn , and you shall be left naked and bare , and you shall be made a mock and a proverb to all , as my servants have bin made a mock and a proverb to you ; and i will scatter you in my indignation , and i will cause my fury to rest upon you till i have consumed you ; ye rulers that rule by your own wills , and ye false prophets that cry peace to this people , and all ye people that delight in lies , is not all manner of wickedness committed amongst you ? as pride , covetousness , oppression , persecution , mocking , stoning , and imprisoning , haling before magistrates them who are made to do my will , and to declare against you ; ye strive against me , saith the lord , ye cry a confederacy , ye consult together , ye plot , ye call all your inchanters against me ; thus saith the lord , ye shall be broken as pharaoh , and go down to the pit with aegypt , mesheck and tuball , and all the uncircumcised ; wo is me , the spoiler is come up against you , and blackness covers you , and a consumption is entring into your bones , my eie shall not spare , my hand shal not pitty , but it will bring this upon you , howle and lament ye okes , ye mountains cleave asunder , and all ye people , both great and small , be astonished , put on sackcloth , put your mouths in the dust , for i will make my fury to pass over you , and none shall be able to deliver you , said the lord ; write this , let them know , but they will not hear , till i have caused my fire to burn them up and there be no remedy . written from the spirit of the living god , by me who am a wita witness for his name , whom the world knows not , but named by the world , franc. howgill . oh ye raging priests , who have set your selves against the mighty power of the lord in his own , whereby he is manifesting his works , his strange works ▪ his acts , his strange acts , making his servants signes and wonders amongst the heathen , and them that know not god , nor his power , whereby he is choosing that which seems foolishness , to confound the wisdom of the wise , which you who stand in your own wils and wisdom , know nothing of ; but in this , as in other things , out of your envie against the truth , take occasion to lay stumbling-blocks in the way of others , wherein you plainly aypear to be in that generation , who will neither enter into the kingdom your selves , nor would suffer others ; you who take occasion to preach and print against the truth , because the lord hath caused some of his servants to go naked along your streets , as in kendal and kirkby-stephen , as signes of his wrath to come upon that pride and fulness that priests and people live in ; and this , you who never knew what it was to obey god , contrary to your own reason and wils , ( for who act such things , act contrary to their own wils ) cry out on a delusion and madness , thinking thereby to make the truth odious to others , but it is that the scriptures may be fulfilled upon you , as it hath been on your generation before you , who counted always what the prophets , christ , and the apostles did madness , and called them mad-fellows ; but now all you who fear the lord , and believe his word , take heed of the deceit of these men , and mind not what they say , who have set themselves to speak evill of the things they know not , but search the scriptures and there you shall finde , that the mighty god ( who hath power over all flesh , and what he commandeth none must dispute by their reason ( though it seem never so foolish , and against their wills ) but must obey ) hath always before his great judgments which he has about to bring on a people , or nation , made some of his dearest servants to pass and act as signes to such nations of what was to follow , and was so usual among the prophets , and them who knew the word of the lord , that the prophet isaiah speaking in the name of the lord jesus christ , saith , i and the children whom thou hast given me , are for signes and wonders in israel , from the lord of hosts that dwelleth in zion , isaiah . . and if ye search the scriptures of the prophets , you shall see in what strange and foolish things to the wisdome of the world they were acted in , as in esay . the prophet was to go three years naked for a sign , what the lord would bring upon aethiopia and aegipt : now had these men lived in his dayes , they would have cryed that up as a delusion and madness , and not as the word of the lord , as they do at this day ; for they neither know the lord , nor his word who stand in their own wills : also read the . of ezekiel , and see what a sign he was to both the houses of israel and judah , a strange thing to the wisdom as ever was : also read the . of ezekiel , and see what a sign he was to be , and what folly he was to act as to their wisdome , and that in the midst of the city : also ezek. . , . & . . to the end of the chap. likewise ezek , . to . v. and many other of the dear servants of god , who were not only to declare the word of the lord from his mouth , but also to be signs to them to whom he was to prophecy , that so he might leave them all without excuse . now those who then were priests , and should have bin teachers and leaders of the people to fear god , and hear his word , and observ his signs , and repent that the judgments might be prevented , they were the only men that hated , reproached , persecuted , and called the prophets , christ and his apostles madmen , deceivers , becaus of these things , which into their wisdomes could not enter , and stirred up the rulers and ignorant people against them ▪ that they might put them to death as it is at this day , but these in our dayes are more inexcusable then all that ever went before them , inasmuch as they had no scripture to shew them that the lord had commanded such signes formerly ; but these have the scriptures that witnesse to the same thing ; which scriptures they make a trade on , and cry up in words , but are ignorant of that spirit by which they were acted that gave them forth , and envie and persecute that obedience that was acted in them , in whom it is now acted ; and they might as well cry out against esay for a mad-man , because he went naked at the word of the lord , and the rest of the prophets and servants of god for acting such weak and foolish things , to their wisdom , as they did as against these for obeying the lord in the same or the like things whatsoever , for god is not tied to any rule to walk by , but his own will ; and where he commands wo to him that doth not obey , and where he commands not , woe to him that acts in his own will , and saith , it is the word of the lord . wherefore all ye that fear the lord , take heed of being stirred np by these men to speak evil of that you know not , but consider that the priests have been alwaies the move●● and perswaders of the people against christ and his kingdom , and power in his saints , and instead of being forward to speak evil of the things you know not , turn in your minds into the fear of god , and mind the light in your conscience that will let you see what sins you are guilty of , which these signs are threatnings to , that you may repent of them , and escape the judgment and finde mercy , as they did in the time of the prophets , who feared the lord and escaped the judgment ; but the envious , scorners and fools passed on , and were punished and know this , that a wisemans eye is in his head and such an one hath his guide within himself , and will not be hastie to follow others though they be multitudes to do evil , and such know it is better to be silent , then to speak evil of the things they know not , and when was there ever any truth of god brought forth , but it alwayes suffered the violence of the proud and haughty , where the seed of the serpent reigns and shews his enmity ; and it is the same now , for that which hath been is at this day , but it is that the power of the lord may be seen , in carrying on his simple truth , against all the wisdom and power of of the world , and plotting of the serpent , yea and he will carry it on to his praise , and to the confounding all his enemies , who must stumble at the stumbling stone , and be offended at the rock , that must break them to pieces , wherefore be silent all flesh before the lord , whose foolishness is more then thy wisdom , and whose weakness is more then the strength of all the world , who is a defence to his poor despised ones , in the midst of their enemies . eternal praises to thee who art our wisdom for ever . to all you who have eyes and yet are blind , and who have ears and yet are deaf , and have hearts and yet cannot understand ; to you i am moved to declare . the lord is proclaiming himself to be king , and all the mountains and every isle and every oke of bashan , and all the cedars of lebanon , and all who rule as kings and conquerors shall bow : hear ye deaf , the trumpet is blown , the standard is lifted up , there is open war proclaimed between michael our paince and all the inhabitants of the earth . arm your selves , o ye mountains and gather your selves on he●ps o ye isles , the glittering the sword of the lord is drawn , and a fire is before him , and all ye will be found as stubble , and you are all to be slain heaps upon heaps , and are all to go down with all the uncircumcised rulers and people into the pit ; the lord the mighty jehovah is revealing himself from heaven in flames of fire to render vengeance upon all the workers iniquity ; for you have slain the heir of the vineyard , you are killing his prophets , and imprisoning his saints ; to you all professors , rulers , and priests , which say you are jews , and are not , but are the synagogue of satan ; i speak in plainess of speech unto you all who live in all the abominations of the heathen , and yet say you love christ , do not you call the master of the house now belzebub , do not ye mock , and set your mouths awry ye sons of the adultress , and of sodom , at the light of christ which enlighteneth every one that comes into the world , which light did lead all saints into purity , and up to god , and this you call natural , and them who witness redemption by the son , you call blasphemers ; christ which you profess and yet know not , was accounted by your generation a blasphemer , and all the apostles and saints were persecuted by your generation as evil doers , as despisers of government , as disturbers of the peace , as leaders of the people into iniquity , as the off-scouring of all things , as sheep for the slaughter , and were al of them put to death and in prison by that generation which professed god , and said they had his ordinances , yet slew them who professed him and kept his statutes ; for if ye be not wilfully blind , are ye not doing the same now ; mocking , haling , imprisoning , bringing before magistrates them that witness jesus christ in them , and becaus they bear witness against all sin ; did ever any of the saints of god persecute , imprison , or hale before magistrates , and falsly acuse any ? did ever the saints complain to authority to guard them ? hear ye whited tombs , ye painted sepulchres , what gospel is this ye profess ? what god is this ye serv that must be defended with clubs , swords , rulers , and carnal weapons ; the saints who had the everlasting gospel , said , their weapons were not carnal but spiritual , and yet they were mighty through god to beat down strong holds , even principalities and powers , thrones and dominions ; but your gospell and ministry can do nothing without a sword ; all people see where you are , & what you are doing , you run headlong to ruine ; those who were despised by that generation of pharisees & professors which you are in , were a burthensom stone , upon which all that opposed did break themselves ; so this generation whom ye set at nought , ye shal be made to bow and throw down your crowns before them , and before the lamb who is our leader & guider , glory unto him for evermore ; its hard for you to kick against the pricks , for we witness the two edged sword of the lord shall bathe it self in the blood of his enemies , and shal be made fat with slaughter . o ye mountains ye shall become a plain for the ransomed to come over you ; all your profession shall be as stubble , and you shall be left naked and bare , and nothing shall be able to cover you , because you are crucifiers of christ and the saints , repent that you may be hid in the day of his fierce anger , which is to come upon all the workers of iniquity . f. h. finis . the quaker's jesus: or, the unswadling of that child james nailor, which a wicked toleration hath midwiv'd into the world. discovering the principles of the quakers in general. in a narrative of the substance of his examination, and his disciples, as it was taken from their own mouthes, in their answer before the magistrates of the city of bristol; also, of his examination in the painted chamber westminster, and the management of it in parliament, now published for the satisfaction of himself and some christian friends. by william grigge, (citizen of bristol) who believes in that jesus (and him alone for salvation) that was crucified at jerusalem, above sixteen hundred years agoe. grigge, william. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the quaker's jesus: or, the unswadling of that child james nailor, which a wicked toleration hath midwiv'd into the world. discovering the principles of the quakers in general. in a narrative of the substance of his examination, and his disciples, as it was taken from their own mouthes, in their answer before the magistrates of the city of bristol; also, of his examination in the painted chamber westminster, and the management of it in parliament, now published for the satisfaction of himself and some christian friends. by william grigge, (citizen of bristol) who believes in that jesus (and him alone for salvation) that was crucified at jerusalem, above sixteen hundred years agoe. grigge, william. [ ], , [ ] p. printed by m. simmons, and are to be sold by joseph cranford, at the sign of the kings-head, in pauls church-yard, london : . annotation on thomason copy: "aprill .". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng naylor, james, ?- -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the quaker's jesus: or, the unswadling of that child james nailor, which a wicked toleration hath midwiv'd into the world.: discovering the grigge, william. b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quaker's jesus : or , the unswadling of that child james nailor , which a wicked toleration hath midwiv'd into the world . discovering the principles of the quakers in general . in a narrative of the substance of his examination , and his disciples , as it was taken from their own mouthes , in their answer before the magistrates of the city of bristol ; also , of his examination in the painted chamber westminster , and the management of it in parliament , now published for the satisfaction of himself and some christian friends . by william grigge , ( citizen of bristol ) who believes in that jesus ( and him alone for salvation ) that was crucified at jerusalem , above sixteen hundred years agoe . there is one evil which i have seen under the sun , as an error which proceedeth from the ruler . eccles. . . christs prophesie . for many shall come in my name , and shall say i am christ , &c. mat. . . the quakers practice . but there were false prophets also among the people , even as there shall be also false teachers among you , who privily shall bring in damnable heresies , even denying the lord that bought them , and shall bring upon themselves swift destruction ; and many shall follow their pernicious wayes by reason of whom the way of truth ▪ &c. pet. . , . the christian's duty . look to your selves , that we lose not those things which we have wrought , ( the margin readst , which we have gained . ) epist. john . the apostle's imprecation . now if any man love not the lord jesus christ , let him be anathema maranatha . cor. . . london , printed by m. simmons , and are to be sold by joseph cranford , at the sign of the kings-head , in pauls church-yard , . the several heads of the ensuing narrative . . some of nailer's erronious opinions & blasphemies declared . . the manner of his riding into bristol . . his examination before the maior of bristol . his examination before the committee in the painted chamber westminster . the examination of dorcas erbury , before the magistrates of bristol . when nailer was sent for to london , and much of what he and his disciples confest at bristol , ( being deny'd there ) made good against him . nailer sent for by the parliament , to answer to the report of the committee , and receive his sentence . when nailer suffer'd the first part of his sentence . the rest put off for a week , by meanes of a petition . a petition to the parliament , for the remitting his punishment . a petition to the protector to that effect . the l. protector's letter to the parliament . the parliament orders the remainder of his punishment at london , and sends him to bristol . the manner of his punishment in bristol . his sending up to london again . some sad meditations upon the sufferings of the true jesus , ( whom this blasphemer did personate ) setting forth no lesse then twelve particular bleedings , for the sake of his redeemed ones . the cities petition ( by way of remonstrance ) to the parliament , in reference to these blaspheming quakers . some cautions , with the humble advice of the authour , to his fellow-citizens , and christians , to take heed of hearing uncalled , unordained , and unsent teachers , lest they also be seduced . a collection of some few erronious and blasphemous doctrines , vented by some re-baptized persons , which have discipled the quakers to much of their practice . a discovery of horrid filthiness , practised by some rebaptized persons and quakers . a recital of several books and pamphlets ( which have past the presse , since toleration ) denying god , christ , spirit , word , ordinances , resurrection , heaven , hell , &c. whereby many poor souls have been seduced . a pretended epistle of p. lentulus a romane , written to the senate of rome , containing a description of the bodily shape and feature of jesus christ : a copy whereof , was found among other papers , ( to the number of . ) about nailers disciples , at their first examination before the magistrates of bristol . an advertisement to my christian friends , and fellow-citizen , for whom this narrative following is intended . christian friends , if ever the devil transformed himself into an angel of light , or his apostles and ministers , transformed themselves into the ministers of christ , they have surely now in this apostatizing and back-sliding age , which we ( by meanes of a toleration ) have fallen into : and that glorious things , ( to wit ) liberty abused , to the dishonour of god , and great scandall of the gospel ; yet sincere christians , ( though they missed of the reformation they hoped , and endeavoured for ) have improved their gospel-liberty , from prelatical tyranny , ( to a more humble walking before , and holy communion with their god and jesus christ , ) under which , many a godly minister and private christian , did suffer trouble as evil doers , and that unto banishment , confiscation and bonds ; but the word of the lord is not ( cannot be ) bound , though in a sence under their lordship it was . this is therefore to advise , yea , and perswade you , that from all seducers , and whatever tends to seduction , you stand off , and ( as the apostle saith ) turn away , and keep close unto your closet-duties , and those publick known ordinances and ministry , by which your fellow christians , before you have through grace ( in some measure ) experimented the goodness of god to their poor souls . now christ himself advising , take heed what , and how you hear : from this is my advice , take heed whom you hear . i have sadly observed the abuse of that scripture , prove all things . that is , say some , hear all , else how can we prove it ? but this i have more sadly observed , that contrary to the words following , hold fast that which is good , they have let loose ( if not quite lost ) that which is good . you know the proverb , a rolling stone , &c. sure these wandring ( rolling ) christians , have increased but little of what is good . and indeed , the apostle , vers. . tells who they are that we should hear , it s those that are among you , and over you in the lord , and admonish us . i confess i have heard this oft spoke , that i may hear others as gifted men , though not as ministers . i answer , i suppose this may hold in schools for disputation , presbyteries for approbation , but not in ordinances appointed for salvation . in this , i am so to hear , that my soul may live , i am to consider when i come to this ordinance of preaching thus . i am come to hear for my life , that which i hear is the word of god , which is his power to salvation ; nay , if it prove not my salvation , it will my damnation . this being considered , shall i run to hear everie fellow , who runs before he is sent , and useth his gifts before he hath grace ? nay , had everie gifted brother grace to his gifts , that doth not commission him to preach . i beseech you therefore , keep close to a godly known ordained ministrie . will it be a plea of anie weight , at the great and terrible day of the lord , for those many poor souls , that have cast off their first love to christ and his ordinances , to say , i was seduced by false teachers , anabaptists and quakers , fox and nailor , &c. i confesse , it will add to the number of the seducers stripes , but not take off theirs who are seduced . when those poor deluded and seduced souls , shall crie to christ their judge for mercie , may he not then say to them , did i not command , that you should take heed , what , and how , and whom you hear ? did not i command you to hear my servants whom i sent ? did not my servant the apostle paul , give you a plain scripture , how can they preach ( savingly ) except they be sent ? may not christ say , did i send or bid you hear jesuites , seducers , false teachers , impostors , fox and nailor , and such like ? friends , look to it , we shall be all in earnest then : at that great day of account , a christian must have his why for his wherefore . walk therefore by rule , yea , and hear by rule too , to the law and to the testimony , if they speak not according to this word , it s because there is no light in them . and am i not to hear then ( as well as they to speak ) according to this word ? and now friends , being called by the magistrates of this city ( as you will see in the ensuing discourse ) to bear witness against ( an unheard of blasphemer ) james nailor : i shall not only give you an account of him and his blasphemies , his examinations , sentence , and ( deserved ) sufferings , both at london and bristol : but of some of my own thoughts , in my journey to london , westminster , ( where i witnest against him ) which thoughts , though they somewhat sadden'd my journey , yet much sweetned my soul , and caused it to rejoyce ; that which much sadded me ( and oh ! that my heart could be more serious in bewailing it ) was , that all which you will read of , spoke or done ( by this blasphemer and his disciples , ) was against the lord jesus christ : that which sweetned , and much comforted my soul was , that ( though unworthy , and the least of all saints , ) i can in some measure say , it was against him , who is my lord jesus , my lord and my god , all against him that is mine , that hath dearly bought me to be his . the epistle . friends , when i had composed the ensuing narrative , and had fairly transcribed it for the use of my self and relations ( as some very well know . ) some christian friends , who perused it , know , that i never intended the publishing of it , and indeed , being conscious to my own weakness and disability for such a work , i need not be ambitious to be seen in the presse , it being also contrary to my judgement , that men ( under the notion of gifted brethren ) having not a call to , nor indeed ability for it , should so oft be seen in presse and pulpit : considering what the apostle speaks , who is sufficient for these things ? but the practice of this present age saith , ( such is the high conceipt that impudence and ignorance hath of it self . ) who is not sufficient for these things ? and truly brethren , that which i shall speak to , in reference to the occasion of this narrative , will not be by way of teaching , ( for i dare not ) but only helping my self and others , to lament the sad effects of toleration ( falsly call'd liberty of conscience ) which indeed long since , was moved for by many ( and of late years too much yielded unto , ) and in a book called , the compassionate samaritan , it was desired , that the parliament would provide , that private congregations might have protection as well as publick , and that all statutes against separatists , might be repealed , and that the presse might be free for any that writes , so he writes nothing scandalous or dangerous to the state : you have in it never a [ so ] if they write any thing dangerous . to religion , and scandalous to the gospel . ah brethren ! this liberty hath not been ( i suppose ) and he that speaks by supposition , may sometimes speak truth , luk. . . ) the least cause of all our divisions , nay of all our blasphemies , errors and heresies ; nay , of all our loose principles and practices suitable thereunto at present amongst us : all which is sadly to be bewailed and lamented by all that fear the lord . for although a rebaptized man is pleased ( in print ) to say , they do but dream , that say these are sad times : so he speaking to the presbyterian ministers ; yet truly , ( by his good leave ) there cannot be a soul , to whom christ hath said in the voice of the gospel , awake thou that sleepest , but , he being thus awakned , must say , that since england was delivered from paganism and popery , there were never sadder times : if judgements ( and that spiritual ) upon a nation , may be a cause of sadness . god now dealing with us , as with pharaoh , who being not humbled , but hardned under those plagues that were upon him and his people , god threatens to send them all ( the worst and saddest plague of all ) upon his heart . for i will at this time ( saith the lord ) send all my plagues upon thine heart . and as that godly & discerning divine , mr. baxter , certainly ( saith he ) such spiritual plagues , as our eyes now behold , are as evident notes of gods heavy displeasure , as men can expect to see on earth . brethren , is not this sad ? and is it not sad , that men should be so jesuited , as to take up such principles , that ( unlesse god do mercifully step in and prevent ) will undermine and overthrow the gospel , religion , reformation , and all that is , or should be dearer to us then our lives ? are not these sad times ? and doth it not call for mourning , and that ( if it were possible ) with teares of blood ? and is it not sad , when some that were , and would now be looked upon as high professors above their brethren , and yet now receive that for a glorious light , and true doctrine , which before they would have abhorr'd as heathenish : ( as indeed it is ) insomuch , that if a christian should have said some years agoe , that they would embrace such doctrine , they would have answered ( as hazael did in another case . ) what thinkest thou , thy servant a dogge ? and is it not sad then , to consider , how many packs there are in the nation of these creatures ? yea , see one thing more , my brethren , which to me is very sad , that many of those who enjoy ordinances in a reformation way , walk no more holy and humble under them , and thankfully for them then they do . truly , all these are sad things . but hath it not been our gifted brethren , ( whose pride ( to say no more ) hath led them to that boldness in presse and pulpit ) who have occasioned most of all this ? and good friends , do not all that fear the lord think , ( and that truly ) that england will have cause to bewail the toleration given , and the liberty taken in this kind ? alasse brethren ! is it enough , to make a man a minister , that he can two or three houres in a week discourse well ( if it be well ) and speak scripture-language ? in which time , many times many speak non-sence fluently ( and blasphemy without book . ) why brethren , considering the helps we have by english authours , it s an easie matter so to do , and it s no hard matter to prove it the practice of gifted brethren ( as they are call'd ) even amongst us : sometimes to bring some godly mens sermons ( as doctor sibs , &c. ) in a pulpit , and with a bold face so deliver it , that the hearers sometimes admire ( as well they may ) such matter from such men . well brethren , did our hopeful plants , fitted in vniversities , receive so much incouragement as they ought : sure the church of god would not be at such a losse for ministers , as to be beholden to such men : and if learning had that due incouragement it ought to have , through the blessing of god ; from thence might come abroad those that may pluck up those tares , which this generation hath sowed , & sow such seed , that may feed the church of god with good bread , and not with chaffe . oh should i speak what i could of some of these intruders , ( for i know more then a good many ) upon that honourable calling of the ministry , ( which ( if we would keep to rule ) none should take upon him , but he that is called of god , as was aaron : ) truly friends , i could tell you of such grosse ignorance , and that in fundamental catechistical points , of such profanenesse in conversation , of such spotted dealing in ( and with ) the world , that a man ( as a man , much more a christian man ) would cry shame on ; but brethren , i forbear , and shall only give you instance of two pulpit-brethren , ( whom many of you know ) in reference to the first , ( to wit ) ignorance : the one supposed god to be a man , ( though more glorious than we ) because the parts of a man , are attributed to him in scripture : another reverend ( doct. ) brother speaking of circumcision , said , that being it was the cutting off of the fore-skin it is ( said he ) the cutting off of the fore-skin of the fore-head . frends , i do not shoot at rovers , but am able to black the white in my margin in this , as well as in other things ; but i forbear , and do wish , that if men finde their spirits drawn out to desire so great a work , and are godly and sound in the truth ; they would submit to a tryall , by those that are able to judge of their gifts , and so to be separate to the work , and sent forth according to rule , and then the lord be with the good . but it may be objected , seeing i speak so much against others , why i practice ( and that without a call ) printing my self and this ( all things considered ) a greater work then preaching or publick speaking ? i answer , . i had a call by the magistrates of the city , to make good against nailer and his disciples , what blasphemies they and my self heard delivered in their examinations , which accordingly i did before the committee at westminster . . noting his examinations in short hand there , ( as before i did at bristol ) i was able to give some account to the business , and the mannagement thereof in parliament . . could i have prevailed with that godly minister , that set forth his examination here , to have forborn till the business had been ended , i should gladly ( again ) have lent my assistance unto him , from my notes there , and then you would have had it in better termes ( he being far better able ) then now you have ; but he then being willing to hasten what he had done to the presse , it came forth without it . . i was moved by the earnest request of some godly friends , who had perused it ( when in a manuscript ) that i would let the world see the height of this impostor's blasphemy , and his punishment . . i waited above a whole year , hoping some better pen would have done it , but that not appearing , this desires acceptance . and thus you have seen the reasons of my taking this boldness in printing , if they be not of weight , to give satisfaction to all godly ordained ministers , especially those to whom i am known , and from whose ministry , by the blessing of god i have received grace , ( if any ) of these i beg pardon , it being ( in this kind ) my first fault , and to them i promise shall be my last , &c. psal. . . let the righteous smite me , it shall be a kindness : and let him reprove me , it shall be , &c. as for all others who are godly , ( though we may differ in judgement ) and yet may dislike it , unto them i say ( as pilate of the true jesus ( now again truly crucified ) so may i of this false jesus , justly punished . ) what i have written , i have written ; and if they shall demand the cause of me , for thus writing , i trust i shall be ready ( for their godliness sake ) to give them a reason , and that with meekness and fear . but then for all others , whose ranting principles lead them to damnable practices , who haply may see some weakness in it , both for stile and method , and so may scorn and reproach both it and me , unto all such my answer is , whatever they speak of it , it s under foot , and all the shame that such black mouths can foam out , i have learnt from my dear jesus ( whom they daily crucifie ) to despise , and shall say as david , psal. . . so shall i have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me , for i trust in thy word . and thus now being perswaded by some godly christians , that god would have glory by it , i have put it to the adventure , and shall leave it to him , who can bring glory to himself , by what meanes he pleaseth : and if by this discovery of blasphemy and filthiness , ( and that by professors ) jesus christ , or any of his ordinances , may be but one foot exalted , i shall take it as an honour to be trod upon . my fellow citizens , if you consider but that one peece of blasphemy which was in one of the papers found about nailer , ( to wit ) that christ that died at jerusalem , was but a figure of that christ in them ; and from this it 's said , nailer is christ : so you will see in doroth . erbury , her answer to the magistrates , and upon this followeth , he must be honoured and owned as christ : whereupon this wretch nailor , takes and accepts of this honour from his disciples , contrary to that we find in scripture , matth. . . for the argument was right by the pharisees , that none ought to have hosanna cryed to him , but the true christ , either by old or young only , the application they made is denyed ; he being the true messias 't was due to him . but what shall we say ? with what words or teares shall we bewail it ? that a wicked , vitious , and blaspheming wretch , ( a jam. nailor ) should give an answer thus ; if it come of god , i cannot refuse it . but brethren , you shall see the contrary practised by john the baptist , when he was sent unto , and had a fair opportunity to be cryed up for a jesus ; when they put it unto him , and asked him , who art thou ? he confessed and denyed not , but confessed i am not the christ . and they asked him , what then ? art thou elias ? and he saith , i am not . art thou that prophet ? and he answered , no . ( also you may consider that of peter his practice , acts . , . but my work will not be confutation , but desire lamentation . ) now john answering no , though i would not be critical upon words , yet considering this blasphemer and his disciples are so singular , and do so tye themselves to yea and nay ; as if yes and no were not sometimes translated in scripture as well as the other ; for as john answers no , so peter answers yes , matth. . , . and the apostle paul , rom. . , &c. i would not quarrel with words , but leave it as one evil mark of seducers , ( strifes of words . ) but because they make so much of it , and place much of their religion in it , i offer to consideration , that in kings , d chapter , from the th verse , to the end , where we have a relation of two women , that came to solomon about a child , and both lay claim to it ; ( but to the thing in hand ) in ver. . you have both words nay and no , and it is observable , it s the false mother hath her [ nay . ] now you know that scripture-proverb . as is the mother , so is her daughter , and this you shall see made good by an instance in the new testament , like mother like daughter ; saphira , who was privy to that hypocrisie of her husband , in keeping back part of the price they sold their possession for ; when the apostle asked her , tell me ( saith he ) whether ye sold the land for so much ? and she said [ yea ] for so much . so then here you have a fit pair of hypocrites , to make quakers ; and seeing the scripture doth thus match them , let them go together . well , here you see something about words , but in my narrative , you will see something bad enough in practice : therefore friends , keep to hearing as before was advised , and beloved , seeing you know these things before , beware lest ye also being led away with the error of the wicked , fall from your own stedfastnesse , but grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our lord jesus christ . and so i commend you to god , and to the word of his grace , which is able to build you up , and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified , and the very god of peace sanctifie you wholly , and i pray god your whole spirit , and soul and body be preserved blamelesse , unto the comming of our lord jesus christ , amen , and amen . the quaker's jesvs . the lord is known by the judgement which he executeth : the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands . psal. . . * before i come to the narrative it self , i think it good to put down some opinions and positions this blasphemer held , which i have gleaned out of that honest and sober confutation of them in a book entituled , the perfect pharisee , and out of a book of his own , lent me by * dennis hollister , he telling me that nailer had answered that pack of lies , ( meaning the perfect pharisee . ) when i had read his book , i return'd it to him , being in his shop , walking with * thomas gouldney , saith he , now you have read some truths after your lies , set forth by the priests , i answered , that was truth before , but now i had read a pack of lies . he told me , that some would believe nothing but lies , i answered , that there was a generation of men , that made lies their refuge , and they were quakers , and so left them . i heartily wish , ( for old acquaintance sake ) that this man d. h. may have repentance given him , and turn again to his old puritanical principles , from whence he is deeply fallen , that he may not go on to this blasphemer's height , lest he deservedly meet with this blasphemers doom from men , or from god , with worse . some few of nailer's erroneous opinions and doctrines follow . quest . whether any could be as holy , just , and good , as god himself ? answ. that he did witness himself , that he himself was as holy , just , and good as god . nailer being in conference with a godly minister , said , that he wonder'd god should reveal any thing to him , and he not know it . nailer did affirm , that christ is in every man , and in the reprobate , he is held under corruption , and so extended the indwellings of christ to indians that never heard the gospel . in a letter wrote by nailer , were these two horrid blaphemies , . that christ in the flesh , with all he did and suffered therein , was but a figure , and nothing but an example . . that he that expecteth to be saved by him that died at jerusalem , should be deceived . as to this last , it was spoken by another of them , to a solid godly christian of this city : and also delivered here , by another , at their publick meeting place , where was neer two hundred people , this was sworn before the magistrates , by a man of mr. walter stephen's . quest . whether the scriptures be the word of god ? ans. that the scriptures are not the word of god , but a declaration of the conditions of them that speak them forth . nailer bids all people turn from their outside lights , and turn to the light of god within you ; for every man in the world , had a light within him , sufficient to guide him to salvation . nailer saith , that men are justified by an inherent holiness , and that we are not reconciled to god , till we be perfectly holy , and able to stand so in our own power : and that no man that commits sin , or that is not perfectly holy , can enter into the kingdom of heaven , unless there be a purgatory , and that there is no real saint , but he that is perfectly holy in this life , and doth not sin . thus we have seen some of his erronious and damnable opinions . he is also reported to be one vicious in his life , it being offer'd to be proved , that he hath been seen often ( lasciviously ) to kisse and dance upon his knee , one mrs. roper , and that he had a child by her . but to leave this , and set forth his higher impudence then all before ( which was enough , and too much , ) viz. his personating of the lord jesus christ , when upon the . day of octob. . he came into bristol . the manner of the riding of james nailor into bristol , . octob. . he rode on horseback in at redcliff-gate , with one bare before him , ( namely , timothy wedlock , of the county of devon ) and two women leading his horse , with the reyns in their hands , one on each side : * martha symonds , the wife of thomas symonds of london , and hannah stanger , the wife of john stanger of london : these came before him singing , holy , holy , holy lord god of israel . thus he rode to the high crosse of the city , and to the white heart in broadstreet , being the house of dennis hollister , and hen , row , both eminent quakers . the magistrates being informed hereof , sent for ja. nailor , ( the quakers jesus ) and his disciples , * ( seven in number ) before them , but such was their singing hosanna , and holy , holy , &c. and the great concourse of people , that their examination that night was not much , so they were committed to newgate , ( as well worthy ) till the next day . saturday the of octob. being the next day , nailer was sent for , and , before the magistrates being examined , was very ready in his answers to circumstances , but wherein he thought the question put to him , might discover him , either would be silent , or else answer with subtilty , ( like his older brethren the jesuites , ) and also denying some things that were put to him , out of his own book ; but it s no wonder , for this generation so to do , who make lies their refuge , and use it , as if lying were a vertue . now ( for the lenity shewn unto them ) god is punishing , as our congregations have heard , and if they were let alone to spread this error , of making the light within them the only rule ( as they do ) it would make them cast off scripture , ordinances , ministry , and look upon themselves godified , and to say what this blasphemer saith , i am christ . for although their work by their proselytes ( whom they make twofold more the children of the devil then themselves ) be , to oppose the faithful ministers of jesus christ , with such impudence , when about their masters work , to the disturbing of the people of god , in their solemn publick worship of god ; yet this will be an everlasting truth , ( and we see it made good in this impostor ) which the prophet speaks with an asseveration . surely the lord god will do nothing , but he revealeth his secrets to his servants the prophets . and such is the good wisdom of our god , that when sathan thinks to appear most like an angel of light , then shall these philistims ( without ploughing with anothers heifer ) unriddle themselves , that thereby sathan's cloven foot , may be the more visibly discerned , tim , . . the examination of james nailer of wakefield , in the county of york , taken before the magistrates , the . of octob. . i shall here bring in those questions and answers that were of most concernment . quest . what his name was ? ans. that the name given him by the world , was james nailer . quest . how he lived , and was maintained ? ans. he lived without care , as the lillies , and was maintained by his father . quest . who is your father ? ans. him whom you call your god . quest . what was your business to bristol ? ans. i came , as i was guided by my father , in my way to london . being asked as to the substance of some letters found about him , attributing several titles unto him , which belong to jesus christ , calling him a prophet , and being question'd whether he were a prophet ? ans. that he is the prophet of the most high god . quest . why that title is given him to be a judge to try the cause of israel ? ans. nothing to this , nor to many other questions . quest . whether he knew hannah stanger ( and how long ) which wrote to him ? ans. he had known her some moneths , and that he received the letters from her in exeter goal . quest . are you the only begotten son of god ? ans. i am the son of god , and the son of god is but one . quest . whether his name was jesus , ( as in the postscript written by hannah stranger's husband ) and how long he had been called so , and whether there were any other jesus ? to these things would not answer . quest . whether he be the everlasting son of righteousness . ans. that he is the son of god , and the everlasting righteousness is wrought in him , and said , if we had known the father , we would have known him also . quest . whether any of the expressions in the said letter , were blasphemy or no ? ans. that which is received of the lord is truth . quest . whose letter was that markt t. s ? ans. thomas symonds sent it to him , to exeter gaol . quest . whether he were the king of israel ? ans. thou hast said it , and he hath no kingdom in the world , but reigneth in the father . quest . are you the lamb of god ( as styled in the letter ) in whom the hopes of israel stands ? ans. that if he were not his lamb , he should not be thus sought for to be devoured , and that the hope of israel stands in the righteousness of the father , in whomsoever it is . quest . whether israels hopes be in any measure in him ? ans. yea. quest . whether any of the expressions in the letter , were blasphemy ? ans. who made thee a judge over them ? quest . why came you into the city , in such an universal manner , two women leading your horse , and singing holy , holy , &c. with one bare before you ? ans. it was for the praises of his father , and said , he may not refuse any thing that is moved of the lord , and that their father commanded them to do it . quest . dost thou think the father commanded them ? ans. yea. quest . whom did they mean , by holy , holy , & c ? ans. they are of age to answer for themselves . quest . whether as he rode through glasenbury and wells , some did not spread their cloathes on the ground before him , and sing holy , holy , & c ? ans. he believed they did . quest . have you call'd martha symond's mother , as in g. fox's letter ( wrote by g. bishop ? ) ans. g. fox did he , she was neither called mother by him , nor any with him . quest . whether he had a wife ? ans. that there is a woman , whom the world calleth his wife . i shall now give some account of his examination in the painted chamber at westminster , before the committee of parliament , the th of novemb. . for though he denyed part of what he confest here , * and juggled in much , yet he owned blasphemy in the height there , as well as here . quest . did any sing before you , when you rode into bristol ? answ . they sang a psalm . quest . what psalm ? ans. such as the words was . quest . was not the words holy , holy , &c. ans. it may be it was . quest . did any women lead your horse ? answ . there was some did hold the bridle . quest . did you reprove them for so doing ? answ . nay , but i spake to them about it ; and they said , they were moved of the lord to it . quest . it s laid to your charge , that you did assume to your self , the fairest of ten thousands , did any give you that attribute ? answ . in words they did not . quest . did they any other way by letter , or so ? answ . you have the letter . quest . but i do ask you ? ans. if they spake it to that of the father in me , i dare not deny it , for its beautiful , in whomsoever it s begotten . quest . do you own that attribute of being the only begotten son of god ? answ . i do not deny but i am the son of god , and have many brethren . quest . are you the only begotten son of god ? ans. i have answered . quest . have any given you the title of being the king of israel ? answ . i think it s in the letter . quest . do you own it ? answ . i have no kingdom in this world , but a kingdom i have . quest . do you own the title of the king of israel , and prince of peace ? answ . it is but one , and that of god born in me , is the king of israel , jesus christ , who is the king of israel , is manifested in me , and that i own . qu. have any called you the prophet of the most high god ? answ . yea , i am a prophet of the most high god . quest . are you the prophet ? answ . i have said . quest . are you a judge sent to try the cause of israel ? ans. the judge of israel is but one . quest . do you in any respect judge the cause of israel ? answ. no other way then as god is manifested in the flesh . quest . then that way you are that judge ? ans. i own it . quest . how do you execute the office of a judge ? answ. no other way then as the father in me . quest . by whom are you sent to do it ? ans. by him that hath made all creatures , he hath sent his son into me , to try the cause of israel . quest . in what manner do you judge the cause of israel ? ans. if they be brought before me in the counsel of my father , i do judge it , but not in carnal things . quest . in what matters are you made a judge , if not in carnal things ? ans. in matters belonging to the kingdom of god . quest . by what spirit do you judge ? ans. by the indwellings of the father , and the son . quest . by what spirit are you guided to be judge ? ans. it s the judge of all spirits , and not to be guided by any but himself . quest . is not the word of god the rule of the spirit ? ans. the word of god and the spirit is one . quest . is not the written word of god that rule ? answ . it s that which doth declare of that spirit . quest . are you more sent then another man to do this ? answ . no otherwise , but as the father and the lord is manifested in me , and to no other but him that knowes the indwellings of god . quest . have any persons said or written , that your mother is a virgin , and your birth immortal ? ans. i remember such expressions . quest . do you own this ? ans. not according to the natural birth . quest do you own it according to the spiritual ? an. i am born of the immortal seed . quest . who was your mother according to your spiritual birth ? an. no man knowes , but he that hath it . quest . you can tell who was your mother ? to this no answer . quest . do you own your birth immortal ? an. yea , according to the spirit . q had your birth any beginning ? you say it is immortal . an. if thou speakest to the visible i had , but not otherwise . q. who is the father of your spiritual birth ? an. i have told you . quest . who is your mother , the virgin mary ? an. i have not said i was born of the virgin mary , but there is a womb that you know not of . quest . do you own the title to be him in whom the hope of israel stands ? an. as christ is in me . qun . as christ is in you , are you he in whom the hope of israel stands ? an. yea. qu. what are those hopes that israel have in you , more then another ? an. none but those that have it , can give account of it . qu. what hope is it that they can give account of ? answered not . qu. have any called you the everlasting son of righteousness , is he manifested in thy flesh ? an. he is manifested in the flesh , i do not deny . qu. are you the prince of peace ? an. i own him the everlasting prince of peace , begotten in me . qu. when those titles were given to you , did you reprove them ? an. i spake not to those that did it , but to the letter , i know it would not bear with some . qu. have any call'd you by the name of jesus ? an. not as unto the visible , but as to jesus the christ that is in me . qu. dost thou own that name king of israel ? an. not as a creature , but if they give it christ within me , he hath a kingdom , of which thou wottest not . q. did any worship you , and kisse your feet in the prison ? an i do not mind it . qu. do you remember it ? an. i may be they might . qu. is there that worship due to you , which was to christ ? an. if they did it to the visible , they were too blame , but if to the invisible , that worship is due to me , according to my measure , as was due * to christ . quest . then you say , that worship was due ( to that which you call the invisible in you ) to you as was given to christ at jerusalem ? ans. yea. qu. when you were askt at bristol , are you the king of israel , did you say thou hast said it ? an. i cannot tell whether i said it there , but i do say it here , if they had known the father , they had known me also . qu. what estate have you , how are you maintained in your travels ? an. i take little care for that . qu. who provides for you ? an. him that clothes the lillies . qu. how dost thou live ? by bread ? an. i live by the word of the lord . qu. do you live by that only ? an. so long as it pleaseth the father , i do . qu. how long have you fasted without bread ? an. some weeks . qu. how many weeks ? an. two or three . qu. did you live without any food all that time ? an. yea. qu. did any offer you any food in that time ? an. yea , many did , but i refused and lived by the word of the lord . here i have only given account briefly of his examinations at london , which i hoped would at large have come forth by some faithful hand , it being presented to the house , by the committee in fifteen sheets of paper , as then taken from his own mouth , but waiting a full year , and no such thing appearing , i have the easier been perswaded to publish it . i shall here insert the examination ( only ) of dorcas erbury , ( one of his disciples ) who indeed spake without juggling downright the sense of them all . the examination of dorcas erbury , before the magistrates of bristol , octob. . . quest . where do you live ? ans. with margaret thomas of bristol . quest . why did you sing holy , holy , &c. before james nailer when he rode in ? ans. i did not sing then , but they that did were call'd to it by the lord . quest . they call'd him that rode on the horse , the holy one of israel . is he so ? ans. yea , he is so , and i will seal it with my blood . quest . and is he the only begotten son of god ? ☞ answ . he is the only begotten son of god . quest . why did you so honour him , as to pull off his stockins , and put your cloathes under his feet ? ans. because he is the lord of israel , and is worthy of it . quest . do you know no other jesus the only begotten son of god but him ? ans. he hath declared him to be the son , and i know ( no other saviour ) but him . quest . jesus christ was crucified upon the crosse , and how is this he ? ans. he is manifested in him . quest . do you believe in james nailor ? ans. yea , i do believe in him , whom thou callest so . quest . what name do you give him ? ans. the son of god . quest . what do you call him usually ? ans. i am commanded to call him lord and master , and i am to serve him . quest . who commands you to call him so ? ans. the spirit of the lord which is within me doth command me . quest . jesus christ is dead , nailor is alive . ans. he hath laid down his natural body . quest . what body is that he hath ? an. that body which he hath is by the power of the lord . doth not the scripture say , i will change thy natural body , and it shall be a spiritual body . quest . he hath flesh and bones , which a spirit hath not . an. he hath new flesh and new bones . qu. jesus christ hath raised from the dead , hath nailor done so ? an. yea , he raised me from the dead . qu. how so ? an. i was dead two dayes , and he laid his hands upon my head , and said , dorcas arise , and from that day to this , i am alive . qu. where was this done ? an. in exeter gaol . qu. who was witness to this ? an. my mother did bear witness to it ; ( she standing by . ) qu. if he hath such power , why doth he not open the prison-doors , and come forth ? an. when the work of the lord is done in the prison , the doors shall open before him . qu. jesus christ had apostles and disciples , hath he any ? an. yea. qu. where are they ? an. some are with him , and some abroad . qu. jesus christ doth sit at the right hand of god , and shall judge the world , doth nailer thus ? an. nailer shall sit at the right hand of the father , and shall judge the world . here we see blasphemy in the highest : and now the magistrates sending a letter to mr. r. a. ( their godly town-clark , and honourable burgesse of parliament ) of these wretches examinations : upon his report to the house , the parliament chose a committee from amongst themselves to take notice of it , and sent a messenger for nailor : two of his company , viz. sam. cater , and rob. crab , the last of october , were discharged ( their examinations amounting not to much , ) and were seen that day to come to the * synagogue of satan , where the quakers meet . the magistrates sent nailor for london , the th of november , with of his disciples , viz. stanger and his wife , martha symonds , and dorcas erbury . now lest they should deny ( as much they did ) what they confest here , mr. phil. dorney their clark , and ( upon the request of the magistrates ) another with him , to evidence what here they said , went for london , and upon the th of november ( being the first day of their hearing before the committee in the painted chamber ) made good against them what they here owned . upon wednesday following , the committee met again , and then agreed upon some reports to be made to the house , but being not fully satisfied , upon saturday following , sent for nailor again , and examined him fuller , shewing much patience in hearing his long-winded answers , which were framed with much craft and subtilty , and though he deny'd much of what he said at bristol , yet owned there greater blasphemy than before . at that time was one of the witnesses call'd again , to manifest the manner of his comming into bristol , and what he there confest before the magistrates ; upon this , when he that was call'd began to speak , a member of the committee spake something in nailors behalf , but being satisfied by the rest , the party call'd upon then to speak , being desir'd to speak on , he directing his speech to the chairman , spake as followeth . sir , if any gentleman here present be not satisfied to what i shall speak , because i am not upon my oath , i do here tender my self to be sworn , that what i shall speak , shall be nothing but the truth : they answered , they should believe him without an oath : he then said , gentlemen , upon the request of the magistrates of bristoll , i do here appear , and the business i am now upon , is the cause of god , yet i shall speak to you in scripture-language , if i tell you i dare not lie for god ( being bid to speak on , did ) sir , as to this wretche's comming in , i was not an eye-witness . but that testimony which the magistrates have sent up to your honours , was affirmed by two gentlemen , that were members of the common-councel of bristol , who were eye-witnesses thereof . the chair-man ( who was godly mr. bamfield , recorder of exeter ) desiring him to speak on , he told them , he was present at the examination of this blasphemer , before the maior of bristol , and noted his answers to what was there put to him in short hand , and after transcribed them , and compared them with those sent up to your honours ( which the maior hath firmed ) and found them to agree . sir , the comming of this blasphemer into bristol , in such a manner , personating the lord jesus christ , did so take with those that fear the lord ( however others may deem it ) that ( to my knowledge ) it did cost many teares : and i do not know ( in these dividing times ) what did better take amongst us then this , when we heard , that upon our burgesses report of it to the house , the parliament so resented it , as to choose out from amongst themselves , your honours to take notice of it . and truly sir , though it be very sad to us , that we are the head quarters of this generation of quakers , that hath brought forth such an impostor , yet we look upon it as a providence , that it is in time of parliament . and we have thus far witnest against it , and shall leave it to your honours wisdom , to do as god shall direct you . upon wednesday the . of novemb. the committee met again , and then agreed to deliver their report to the house , which they did upon the th of decemb. in sheets of paper . it being read in the house , not one member excepted against any thing in it ; but upon debate , not knowing but it might concern his life , they generally agreed to hear him themselves first . the sixth of decemb. nailer was sent for , and called to the barre , the report of the committee was particularly read in parts , and his answer required to each head . quest . whether his answer before the committee to these things , were thus ? he answered to every head yea , and denyed not any part thereof . whereupon the house agreed upon all the matter of fact reported by the committee , and adjudged it horrid blasphemy , and he a grand impostor and deceiver of the people , and ordered him close prisoner . after . or . dayes debate , upon the th of december , the house came to a resolution in nailers business , and upon a division of the house , it being carried in the negative , that the question for death should not be put ; the house then considered what the punishment should be , if not death : so they voted his punishment to be as followeth . that upon thursday next , the th of decemb. he stand in the pillory two houres , in the new pallace yard , with a paper of his offence and crime in his breast . and then presently to be whipt by the hangman , to the old exchange : upon saturday following , to be put in the pillory for two houres , before the exchange ; and then bored through the tongue with a hot iron , and stigmatized with the letter b. in his fore-head : and afterwards , be by the sheriffs of london , conveyed to bristol , and there ride through the city upon a horse , with his face to the horse tail , and then publickly whipt through the town : and then by the sheriffs of bristol , to be conveyed to bridewel in london , there to be kept close prisoner , from all society of people , from pen , ink and paper , kept to hard labour , and to eat no more than he yearns by his labour , and not to be released till further order from the parliament . the next day being the th of december , nailor was brought to the barre , to receive his sentence agreed upon . the next day , thursday the th of decemb. nailor according to his sentence , stood in the pillory in the new pallace yard two houres , and immediately after , was from thence whipt by the hangman to the old exchange . upon saturday following , being to receive the remainder of his punishment there ( london ) in the morning was a petition sent in to the parliament , to desire the respiting of his punishment for a few dayes ( he being not well ) least it should endanger his life . to the parliament of the common-wealth of england , scotland , and ireland . the humble petition of the persons , whose names are underwritten . humbly sheweth , that we are credibly informed , ( by those eyes that have seen it ) that james nailor is in a very ill and dangerous condition of body , not fit to undergo that part of your sentence he is adjudged unto this day , and were desired to acquaint this honourable house so much , and to beg the respite of a week , or some small time , as to your wisdom and goodness shall seem meet , that he may recover a little strength , before he be called forth again : which office of charity we could not refuse , though we are not partakers with him , nor abettors of him , in any things that have occasioned this sentence . therefore since we believe , it is not your intent to destroy that life which you spared in your sentence . we humbly pray , an order of reprieve may be granted for a few dayes , and it will be accepted as an act of your christian moderation and clemency . and we shall pray , &c. t.z. j. s. j. w. c. h. this petition occasioned this order following . ordered , that the further punishment of james nailor , which should have been on this day , shall be suspended till this day sevenight , and be executed on him then , and that the sheriffs of london and middlesex , do observe the order accordingly . tuesday tuesday after being the . of decemb. there came near about an hundred men , with a petition to the parliament door , for the remitting the rest of nailors punishment , the house understanding of it , many worthy members would have had it rejected , but the house was divided , and at last , put to the vote , whether to be admitted or no , which was carried in the affirmative ; whereupon , the petition was called in , and one mr. joshua sprigg , ( formerly an independent minister ) presented it at the barre before the house , and made a short speech before the delivery of it , the speech i could not get , but the petition was as followeth . to the parliament of the common-wealth of england , scotland , and ireland , &c. the humble petition of divers peaceable and well affected persons , in the cities of london and westminster , in behalf of themselves and many others . sheweth , that your moderation and clemency , in respiting the punishment of james nailor , in consideration of his illness of body , hath refreshed the hearts of many thousands in these cities , altogether unconcerned in his practice , and hath opened their eyes to see something more than the terrors of mount sinai , to dwell upon your honourable house , and hath likewise given them some hopes , to see you come forth in the spirit of our lord jesus , yet more and more , to the convincement of those that erre , and are out of the way . wherefore we most humbly beg your pardon , that are constrained to appear before you in such a suit , ( not daring to do otherwise ) that you would remit the remaining part of your sentence , against the said james nailor , leaving him to the lord , and to such gospel remedies , as he hath sanctified . and we are perswaded , you will find such a course of love and forbearance more effectual to reclaim , and will leave a seal of your love and tenderness upon our spirits . and we shall pray , &c. the substance of the petition was for the remitting and pardoning of the residue of nailors punishment ; the parliament that day came to no result about it , but broke up . this petition was in the first place subscribed by col. scrope , sometimes governour of the castle and fort of bristol . the petition to the parliament , being not like to take that effect they hoped , they made their address to the protector , as followeth . to his highness , oliver lord protector of the common-wealth of england , s. and j. and the dominions thereunto belonging . the humble petition , &c. sheweth , that your petitioners ( having out of tenderness to the good cause of our spiritual and civil liberties ) concerned in some late proceedings of the house of parliament , and to the good of these nations , and the government thereof , appeared in a petition to the parliament , ( a copy whereof , is hereunto annexed ) for the remitting the remaining punishment of james nailor : which petition , is received into the house , and resteth there ; we humbly conceive it our duty also , in consideration of the joint interest , which your highness with the parliament hath , by the instrument of government in the legislative power , to make our humble address and request to your highness . that you will be pleased , according to all former declarations , and the experience we have had , of your highnesses care of this tender interest of liberty of conscience , to weigh the consequence of these late proceedings , and , according to the th article of the instrument aforesaid , and one of the grounds you declare upon in the warre with spain , your highness will stand up for the poor people of god in this day . wherein your highness will not do more right to your petitioners , than to your self and these nations . and we shall pray , &c. fryday being the . of december , his highness the lord protector sent a letter to the house , about the business of nailer , as followeth , oliver p. right trusty , and right well beloved , we greet you well , having taken notice of a judgement , lately given by your selves , against one james nailer , although we detest and abhorre the giving or occasioning the least countenance to persons of such opinions or practises , who are under guilt of such crimes , as are commonly imputed to the said person : yet , we being interessed in the present government , on the behalf of the people of the e nations , and not knowing how far such a proceeding , wholly without us , might extend in the consequences of it , do desire , that the house will let us know the grounds and the reasons , whereupon they have proceeded . given at white-hall the . of decemb. . to our right trusty and well beloved , sir tho : widdrington , knight , speaker of the parliament . this letter occasioned a great debate in the house , to consider , what answer should be returned to it . an answer was not agreed upon , but another day appointed , viz. tuesday following , mean while , the parliament ( like themselves ) orders nailor to receive the remainder of his punishment , ( according to his sentence ) which upon saturday the . of december , was executed upon him , standing in the pillory before the exchange two houres , and after that , was bored through the tongue with a hot iron : and then stigmatized with the letter b. in his fore-head , and so sent again to prison . at this time , nailor receiving the second part of his punishment , there was one * robert rich , a merchant , suffer'd to stand on the stage with him by the pillory , who took a paper out of his pocket , and placed it over his head , whereon was written , it is written , luke . . this is the king of the jewes . oh wretched impudency , and horrid blasphemy ! and yet this wretch never question'd ; only an officer stept up , and pull'd it down . the th of jan. nailor came to lawfords gate at bristoll , and there lay that night , being sent by the sheriffs of london , to the sheriffs of bristol , to be deliver'd to them , who before had received this order , as followeth . whereas james nailor is by parliament adjudged , to be guilty of horrid blasphemy , and a grand impostor , and a great seducer of the people , whereupon judgement was given , and in that judgement it is , amongst other things , adjudged , that the said james nailor be sent to the city of bristol , and conveyed into , and through the same city , on a horse bare ridged , with his face backwards , and there also publickly whipped , the next market day after he comes thither , and that after the execution of this punishment , he be committed to prison in bridewell london . these are therefore , by vertue of an order of parliament , to require you , to receive the said james nailor , from the hands of the sheriffs of london and middlesex , or their deputies , and that you do execute , or cause the said judgement , in all and every the particulars aforesaid , to be duly executed and performed , and that thereupon , you convey , or cause the said james nailor to be safely conveyed from bristol , to the city of london , and there to be delivered unto the governours of bridewell london , there to be dealt withall , according to the said judgement . whereof you are not to fail . and for doing whereof , this shall be your warrant in that behalf . dated the th of jan . tho : widdrington , speaker . to the sheriffs of the city of bristol . the th of jan ( according to his sentence ) nailor took horse at lawfordsgate , the entrance into the city , and rode with his face to the horse tail , through the city , without * redcliffe gate , and there alighted , and brought to the middle of thomas street , and there stript , and then tyed to the horse , to be whipt from thence back again to the middle of broadstreet . now in this blasphemer's punishment , that proverb [ of kissing goes by favour ] is alter'd : for with the hangman at london , and ( i will not say whom ) here at bristol , whipping goes by favour : but this order following , was given to mr. roch , the keeper of newgate , in reference to the favouring of him . mr. roch , cause james nailor to ride in at lawfordsgate , upon a horse bare ridg'd , with his face backwards , from thence along winestreet , to the tolsey , thence down high street , over the bridge , and out at redcliffe gate , there let him alight , and bring him into st. thomas street , and cause him to be stript , and made fast to the cart horse , and there in the market first whipped , from thence to the foot of the bridge , there whipt ; thence to the end of the bridge , there whipt ; thence to the middle of highstreet , there whipt ; thence to the tolsey , there whipt ; thence to the middle of broadstreet , there whipt ; and then turn into the taylors hall , there release him from the cart-horse , and let him put on his clothes , and carry him from thence to newgate , by tower lane , the back way . now whereas custommarily the bellman goes before , and makes proclamation of the offence of the offendor , yet this unparalleld blasphemer ( though as vitious as erronious ) the keeper commands the bellman to the contrary , and suffers one jones a coppersmith , and an ugly quaker to hold back the beadle's arm , when striking , and in all the way the bell rang but six times , which , according to custom of such correction , should have been more , for farre lesser , ( nay no ) fault in comparison to this ; but which is worse , and more sad , there was one robert rich , a monstrous wretch , having a mairmaids head ( such was the length of his hair ) that did ride bare before , singing , holy , holy , &c. this rich , the th of decemb. sent in to the speaker of the parliament a letter , with this impudent challenge . if i may have liberty of those that sit in the parliament , i do here at their door attend , and am ready , out of the scriptures of truth , to shew , that not any thing james nailor hath said or done , is blasphemy , or worthy either of death or bonds ; but to return , ah poor silly bristol ! how hath the imprudent neglect or timorousness of some in thee , in not crushing the shell , and the sottish seduced credulity or indulgence of other some , in nourishing the brood of this serpentine generation of quakers , given them too much advantage , to fulfill among us , that infallible prediction of the apostle , tim. . . evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse , deceiving , and being deceived . for that * behind is worse yet : these wretched quakers that would scarce seem to own nailor at his comming in the . of octob. yet now many accompanie him , and when he was going to horse at the gate , though in that shameful manner ( as before ) yet use these expressions which follow . behold the lamb of god , saith one , this is the corner-stone which the builders refused ; another : they shall look upon him whom they have pierced ( and wept ) another . let all the angels in heaven worship him , a fifth , give honour to whom honour belongeth . these wretches wept , but sure he hath a hard heart , that doth not weep in earnest , to hear and see such blasphemies against the true jesus ( as these are ) and those titles that belong unto him , to be attributed to such a blasphemous wretch as this is ; who upon fryday night lying at the lamb without lawfords gate , ( being the night he came thither , jan. . ) had a woman in bed with him , ( i say in bed ) by this circumstance , in the oath taken before the maior . [ the maid and tapster , saw a woman at . of the clock at night , on the farther side of the bed , and covered , lying with her arms over the rug ] and though they would not swear she was naked , and in the bed , yet the maid did swear , that about of the clock the next morning , this ( whorish ) woman , was lying in the same place and manner . one such action you have before in the third page , offer'd to be sworn but enough and too much . after this , the sheriffs of bristol sent him up to the governour of bridewell london , who had received this order , as followeth . whereas james nailor is by parliament , adjudged to be guilty of horrid blasphemy , and a grand impostor , and a great seducer of the people , whereupon judgement was this day given , and in that judgement it is ( amongst other things ) adjudged , that the said james nailor be sent from bristol to london , and committed to prison in bridewel there , and restrained there from the society of all people , and kept to hard labour , till he shall be released by parliament . and during that time , be debarred from the use of pen , ink and paper , and shall have no relief but what he earnes by daily labour . these are therefore by vertue of an order of parliament , to require you , or your deputy , to receive from the sheriffs of bristol , or their deputies , the said james nailor , and that you do execute , or cause the said judgement , in all and every the particulars aforesaid , to be duly executed and performed . whereof you are not to fail ; for doing whereof , this shall be your warrant in that behalf . dated the th of decemb. . tho. widrington , speaker . to the governour of bridewel-london . now some mercy it is in these evil times ( wherein every man almost doth what is right in his own eyes ) that there are some magistrates who have endeavoured ( though in parliament , and , you see else-where , with great opposition ) to put offendors to open shame . but though justice , and justices here , may be mock'd , god is not , ( and men shall one day know ) will not be mockt . what answer will these wretches make , when god shall put this quest o ye sons of men , how long will ye turn my glory into shame ? for god himself hath said , i am the lord , that is my name , and my glory will i not give to another . and though wretches would take it , yet they must stand off , they shall not have it ; nay , they cannot have it . for upon all the glory shall be a defence . if upon the church the body , much more on christ the head . i have now done as to this impostor , and his deluded ones : and shall say as the apostle did to that sorcerer ( so to him . ) thy heart is not right in the sight of god , repent therefore of this thy wickedness , and pray god , if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee , for i perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness , and in the bond of iniquity . see mat. . , . here you have had a sad , but a true account of blasphemy in the highest , and though nailor himself , and some of the others , did juggle in their answers , yet dorcas erbury speaks the sense of them all . now though the times may be such as to question , whether there be any blasphemy or no ; yet god will one day say , i know the blasphemy of them which say they are jewes , and are not , but are the synagogue of satan : will he not much more say it of this wretch , that saith he , is jesus , &c. this is a blasphemy to be bewailed , if possible , with teares of blood ; for it reacheth to the heavens , nay , to him that is exalted above the heavens ( i suppose in dignity . ) and that my heart may be the more affected with him , my dear lord and saviour , against whom all this is , i shall desire to call to mind two things . . his relation to me . . his sufferings for me , and both upon the account of free grace . and oh that my heart might , not only be affected with , but my soul afflicted for it , that all this should be said and done against him who is my head , the lord my righteousness , my advocate , my mediator , my saviour , my christ , my jesus , my continual intercessor , my wisdom , sanctification , and redemption , my all in all . now considering our relation , methinks it should soften the hardest heart , to wear it self out with melting teares , what , is all this against my elder brother ? yea , my lord and my god ? what , all done against my loving and lovely jesus ? but that it may ( if possible ) be more affected ( as i am sure it ought to be ) let us consider , and methinks christ is now speaking from heaven to us , in these apostatizing dayes , as he did to his disciples . will ye also go away ? and may not christ say , as the lord doth , wherein have i wearied you ? testifie against me . he can say to us , i have unthroned my self of my glory with my father , and took upon me your nature , and so came in it nearer to you then others , and will ye go away ? what you ? if i had done no more , this had been enough to have kept you to me for ever , and not look after another . i took your nature upon me , not for any pleasure i had in it , or ease by it : but that by suffering in it , you might be preserved . what had i done might our dear jesus say , who can charge me with sin ? the devil himself cannot do it , the prince of this world commeth , and hath nothing in me . if all i did suffer was for you , standing in your room , so to suffer , will you thus requite me ? may not christ say , as the lord doth by moses ? do ye thus requite the lord ? oh foolish people and unwise ! is not he thy father , ( saviour ) that hath bought thee ? hath he not made thee , and established thee ? surely we may say as in the verse before , their spot is not the spot of his children , that thus blaspheme him , or , as it is ( more emphatical ) in the margin , that they are not his children , that is their blot . but now say some of these spotted and blotted ones , what is christ ? what did this christ at jerusalem ? we have an answer at hand , out of the word of truth ( if you had grace to believe it . ) as to what he is , i answer , he is the only begotten son of god : and yet the son of man , in this one scripture both , and the word is made flesh , and dwelt among us , and we beheld his glory , the glory as of the only begotten of the father , full of grace and truth . as to what he did ? answ. but this man , after he had offered one sacrifice for ever , sat down at the right hand of god . but believing soul ( to thee i desire to speak ) see and behold what he did , when he stood in our stead , to grapple with his fathers wrath for us , and all we shall see it out of that gospel already preached and received ; and if an angel from heaven , preach any other ( gospel ) let him be accursed . consider we then his first bleeding , when for our sakes he submitted to ( the painful ordinance of ) circumcision , whereby also we may receive much benefit , it by faith & the operation of the holy spirit in our hearts ( being circumcised by the circumcision made without hands : ) we apply it to our selves , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of christ . colos. . . but i shall by and by let you see , no lesse then eleven particular bleedings more , which i trust , will help affect our hearts , and constrain us the more to love and obey him . let us in the next place , consider his bleeding at the mount of olives : and o that we could consider ( as we should ) his agony there ! this , this was his soul afflicting passion , praying , if thou be willing , let this cup passe from me ( three times ) and being in an agony ( saith the text ) he prayed more earnestly , and his sweat ( mark o soul ) was as it were great drops of blood , falling down to the ground . this earnestness in prayer , was a wrestling to purpose ( even beyond jacob's , though he prevailed with god . ) consider o my soul , also the willingness of thy saviour , after this deep agony , and great conflict with his father , he knowing all things that should come upon him , goes forth , and meets the traytor and his company , and said unto them , whom seek ye ? now as thou seest the readiness of thy saviour , so behold also the malice of the enemy , their readiness ( saith the text ) and as soon as it was day , the elders of the people , and the chief priests and scribes came together , and led him into their counsel ( as soon as it was day they did it ) here was no respite to the true jesus . then if we consider his executioners , they are not men of an effeminate spirit ; but saith the text , these things therefore the souldiers did , who ( as the prophet hath it ) are men brutish and skilful to destroy ; yea , and to deceive too ; who are men burning ( saith the margin ) their rage and malice sets them on fire , and then who can stand before it ? oh soul ! to help thee , yet further to mourn over thy dear saviour , consider these men , ( souldiers ) are not only skilful to destroy , but its a passe-time to them , witness that saying of two great souldiers , abner and joab ; and abner said to joab , let the young men now arise , and play before us , and joab said , let them arise , and they did , &c. and now oh my soul ! look upon thy dear jesus , this true jesus is scourged indeed , in earnest , it was not a mock-punishment , his sacred body was whipt to purpose , so that if the spouse should be asken , what is thy beloved more than another beloved ? she might answer , now my beloved is black and blew ( not white and ruddy . ) and after this , none comes to wash & supple his stripes ; but immediately delivered into the hands of these merciless men ( souldiers . ) and concerning his whipping , histories tell us , that their whips were of small cord & wires , that so every stroak might tear the flesh . ( ah my dear jesus ) soul , canst thou think his sweet body was not torn to purpose by them , when that wretch ( pilate ) delivered him up to their will ? do what you will with him : was ever any malefactor so delivered up ? mark what st. luke saith , and he released unto them , him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison , whom they had desired , but he delivered jesus to their will , to do with him what they would . ( so one translation . ) after this , the souldiers took jesus into the common hall , and they stript him ( the souldiers did . ) soul dost thou think it was gently done ? no , no , this fetcht ( i suppose ) bloud , holy jesus ! from thy sweet ( but very sore ) body again . after this , they put on him a roab ( as they call it ) and when they had platted a crown of thorns , they , ( the souldiers ) put it upon his head : soul , dost thou think it was tenderly done ? it may be they handled it so , but they did not head it so . now behold the bloud of thy saviour , from his sacred head ( thy head ) running down every way . and when they had fastned the crown , then they put a reed in his right hand , and they bowed the knee before him , ( who indeed was worthy to be worshipped , though they mocked him , ) saying , hail king of the jewes , and they spat upon him ( the souldiers did ) and smote him with their hands , and took the reed , and smote him on the head . ah dear soul , fresh bleeding with a witness ; for such mens blowes ( when enraged ) are not light , his sweet cheeks , and sacred head , felt the weight of their fingers . now soul , look into the face of thy dear saviour , and see how those sweet cheeks are besmeared with bloud and spitting : will not this draw teares ? ( oh heart , harder than the neather mill-stone ) again . after they had mocked him , they took the roab off from him , gently ? no , no ( the souldiers did it ) and did not the plucking off of this woollen garment ( by such men ) fetch blood again ? doubtless o soul ! thy saviour bled a fresh , do not we know how tedious it is to have a little woollen cling but to a small soare ? oh! how was then the plucking off that coat from my saviours body , so gored in blood by such merciless men ? and yet all this is but preparation to crucifixion . now my soul , now eye thy saviour , in this pickle bearing ( that which after bore him ) his crosse ; ( so st. john hath it ) questionless , bleeding as he went , with drops to the ground ; for though they took the reed out of his hand , and smote him therewith , and that on the head , and took off their mocking roab , yet we do not read , that they took off his real crown of thorns , which caused a continual bleeding . well now he comes to his crucifying . and when christ was on the crosse , he said to his mother , woman , behold thy son : so say i , oh my soul i soul , behold thy saviour , layd upon his crosse , and behold one hand nayled , and by and by thou shalt see another harmless hand nayled , and then his lovely feet successively . mark oh soul , not feet making haste to shed innocent blood : but those feet of his were pierced , that were innocent , and yet readily carried him to shed his own blood for others that were guilty ; indeed soul ! is this a truth ? did his lovely feet thus carry him to that place where ( for thee ) they were thus pierced ? then oh my soul ! learn to make this use of thy feet , the feet of thy body ; or ( thy affections ) the feet of thy soul , oh be thou , one of them that follow the lamb ( this lamb ) whither ever he goeth , step by step , oh my soul ! be thou ready at his call ( as that righteous man abraham was ) in all obedience to come up to his foot . and now soul , behold his th and last bleeding , when lifted up upon the crosse , and his sacred side was pierced ; causing him to bleed to purpose , to the finishing of his own life , and accomplishing of thy salvation . oh therefore , let him have thy heart in service , for thou hast his blood in sacrifice ; and his heart blood might ( forthwith as in the text ) come out well enough for this also the souldier did . now soul look up , and hear what thy jesus said , it is finished : and behold what thy jesus did ( saith the text . ) he bowed his head , and gave up the ghost . the people hearing what was to be done , came together ( saith the text ) to see that sight , and all the people that came together to that sight , beholding the things which were done , smote their breasts , and returned . oh for an eye of faith ! to see thy saviour , this blessed sight indeed , thy jesus thus bowing down his bleeding head , and finishing the great work of redemption for us . may we not smite upon our hearts , and say , what have we done ? what a bloudy sight have my sins made ? and cry out , what shall i render to this my lord , for all the benefits i have gained by all these his sufferings ? oh let us lay a charge upon our souls ! and say , blesse the lord o my soul , and all that is within me , blesse his holy name : blesse the lord o my soul , and forget not all his benefits . who forgiveth all thine iniquities ? who healeth all thy diseases ? who redeemeth thy life from destruction ? who crowneth thee ( not with thorns , but ) with loving kindness , and tender mercies ? and all this gained to us , by this his bleeding , and that unto death . thus , oh soul ! thou hast seen christ's love sealed with his blood , who when we were enemies , thus bled and died for us . oh then ! let the love of christ constrain us to mourn over him , that was thus for us pierced : that is ( amongst us ) thus blasphemed . let it constrain us to love him again , to love his word , ( all his ordinances , saints ; especially his ministers , and the more them , because by impostors and seducers so much maligned : now let their feet be more beautiful than ever , and that for their tidings sake , as the prophet faith . and that we may see its a gospel-text and duty , the apostle makes use of it from the prophet , to be our duty thus to love and honour those teachers that are sent ( that have commission , for it s confined to them . ) how shall they preach except they be sent ? as it is written , how beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace , and bring glad tidings of good things ? now the apostle speaking , that in the last dayes , perilous times shall come ; amongst other sinners , brings in blasphemers , and they have also their form of godliness . but the precept is , from such turn away , ( not turn unto . ) and the apostle gives them this character , they creep into houses , and lead captive silly * women , ( and men too , but ) laden with sin . and we shall see the apostle jude , directing his epistle , not only to them that are sanctified by god the father , but to the preserved in jesus christ , and called ; tells them , ( though yet preserved ) it was needful for me to write unto you , and exhort you , that you should earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints . ( why all this , what 's the matter ? ) the reason is , for there are certain men crept in unawares , who were before of old , ordained to this condemnation , ungodly men , turning the grace of our god into lasciviousness , and denying the only lord god , and our lord jesus christ . now doth not this text set forth this impostor ( nailor ) being so exceeding vicious and erronious ? ah poor bristol ! that thou must ( for indeed thou can'st ) witness this more then any . thou mayest say indeed , this is a day of trouble and rebuke , and of blasphemy , it may be , the lord our god will hear the words of rabshekah ( this nailor ) and will reprove the words which the lord our god hath heard ; wherefore , lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left . what hezekiah said to the prophet isaiah , do we that remnant that is yet left , say to you , all you despised , contemned opposed prophets . for though these seducers and their proselytes deal so with you , yet unto us that fear the lord , you are in our account , the ministers of christ , and stewards of the mysteries of god : therefore for the lords sake , lift up your prayers for us , do not only preach to us , but make conscience ( in your private devotions ) of praying for us ; for that text is an everlasting truth . he is a prophet , and shall pray for thee . if you ask why we are so earnest ? i 'le tell you . that remnant that is left , is but a remnant out of a remnant , and even in them ( and me ) are the seeds of apostasie ; for heresie is a work of the flesh , therefore pray for us , pray that we also may perform our duty , which is , to pray for you . and oh that the spirit of prayer were recovered again in us ! i do somewhat remember , when the sword was first drawn in ireland , how we were affected , considering our brethren , and their leading the way to our own troubles , how this stir'd up a spirit of prayer , when we considered the concomitants of warre , and those destroying instruments , which ( as one saith ) made many times a harvest for the devil ) as glittering swords , roaring cannons , skul-dividing holberts , murdering muskets ; that while one is discharging his gun , another discharges him of his life , and that [ it may be ] one brother another ; this did then so put us a weeping and praying , that it could not be said , as the prophet isaiah , there is none that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee . o you teachers ! pray your hearers into a praying posture : but it will be said , this is over now . i would it were , suppose it be , is there no cause of weeping and praying consider . when the question was put to mary , woman , why weepest thou ? oh saith she ! ( speaking as a woman undon ) they have taken away my lord , and i know not where they have laid him . now though warre be gone , and what the souldiers have not taken away , we yet keep , yet do not men ( devils incarnate ) seek to take away sabbaths , scriptures , ordinances , ministers , yea , our lord jesus his person , were he within their reach ? and we know not where they would lay him . and may not we say again , these things the souldiers did . and one of the souldiers pierced his side , ) and was not nailor a souldier , as well as a famous infamous quaker and blasphemer ? and now brethren , let none take offence , before it be given , because i have in setting forth the sufferings of christ , the captain of our salvation , so oft mentioned the word souldier ; for its frequent in all our four evangelists , and my practice hath declared , that i own warre , as an ordinance of god , when rightly stated , but let me say this to them , and to my own soul , to help us to lament , let us look upon david , an eminent instance , who , though he was a souldier , a man of much bloud ; he was also a saint , a real saint , a man of many teares , ( saith he ) rivers of waters run down mine eyes , because they keep not thy law . truly , if we can say as nehemiah ( that good man ) did of himself ( as to the kings discerning ) i had not [ saith he ] been before time sad in his presence . yet now [ if ever ] we have cause of sorrow of heart , and sadness of countenance , as he had . consider we nehemiah's cause of that sadness , which occasioned the speech of the king . wherefore the king said unto me , why is thy countenance sad , seeing thou art not sick ? this is nothing else but sorrow of heart , oh that it were so with us ! then i was very sore afraid , and said unto the king , let the king live for ever . why should not my countenance be sad , when the city , the place of my fathers sepulchers lyeth waste , and the gates thereof are consumed with fire ? then the king said unto me , for what dost thou make request ? so i prayed to the god of heaven [ i suppose some secret ejaculation at that time ] the application i leave to those to whom more properly it belongs ; the persons , ministers , whom we are now speaking of , and calling upon our selves , more to pray for . but to return , o that we could pray more ! yea , and methinks we should , you standing in so much need of prayer , as indeed you do , for , you , you who are the ministers of jesus christ , are the mark shot at , it s you who are the more able , and more godly , amongst you , which is the white in that mark , at which they aim , and level their malice . and then considering how earnestly you beg it of us , as you do , in one place brethren , pray for us , that the word of the lord may have free course , and be glorified . and the apostle paul , we shall see , never did any man beg for an alms , with more earnest intreaties , than he did for the saints prayers , now i beseech you brethren , for the lord jesus christs sake , and for the love of the spirit , that you strive together with me , in your prayers to god for me . and jesus christ hath not only taught us to pray , but by his own example hath taught us to put up earnest supplications , he being in an agony , prayed more earnestly . and this was a little before his sufferings , a little before his lifting up upon the crosse . now this lifting up , was to draw all men unto him , and the pole , upon which our lord jesus is thus lifted up , is the gospel . ( he is the true serpent indeed lifted up , that whosoever believeth on him , should not perish , but have eternal life . ) * now those that do bear this pole , or standard , whereby we come to see what he hath done , and how he hath bled for us , were the four evangelists , and then the apostles , and so onward their successive brethren the ministers , with whom he hath promised to be always , even to the end of the world . so then , by vertue of this promise , we have encouragement to pray ; for though men and devils band together against them , yet a standing ministry he will bear up , and that to the end , ( not of that age , as some would have it , but ) of the world ; and bear them up he will sure , for they are stars , and that in his right hand , and who shall , nay , who can , pluck them thence ? but now that we may make up what , and wherein we have been wanting in this duty , we have a promise also to enable us , and let us turn that promise into a prayer , and earnestly beg of god to make it good , which is , that he will poure down the spirit of grace and supplication upon us , and then shall prayers and teares be poured out from us with acceptation . which that we may , let us talk lesse of them , lesse then that against them , and let us up , and be doing , in praying more frequent , and earnest for them . and let one and the other put up this joynt prayer , as nehemiah did , o lord i beseech thee , let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant , and to the prayer of thy servants , who desire to fear thy name ; and prosper good lord the studies and labours of thy servants , that all error and blasphemy , and whatsoever is contrary to sound doctrine , may fall before them , amen . grace be with all them that love our lord jesus christ in sincerity , amen and amen . the magistrates and ministers of the city , taking into consideration the heighth of this wretches blasphemy , before treated of : and the great disturbance , and opposition the ministers and people have in the time of their publick worship of god , made their address to the parliament , then sitting at westminster , by way of remonstrance and petition , as followeth . the humble remonstrance and petition of the mayor , aldermen , and common councel of the city of bristol : together , with the ministers of the gospel , and other chief inhabitants , who desire to fear god , and serve our lord jesus , in sincerity , in the same city . that we ( especially the magistrates ) have with much regret and sadness of spirit ) lyen long under much reproach & ignominy , occasioned by the increase of a generation of seduced , and seducing persons among us , called quakers , who at first were supported and upheld by some souldiers , then in chief command , in the absence of the governour of the garison : the wickedness of which sect of men , hath not in our nation ( as we know of ) been formerly heard of : and so destitute of a law , to punish and restrain , and therefore have not been able to suppress ; and whereas we have waited long for some directions to that purpose , being unwilling to run upon unknown precipices , these people have strengthned and incouraged themselves in their iniquities , upon some pretended countenance from thence , whence we cannot suppose it ; so that also we could , and did ( yet with some difficulty ) punish , and thereby in some measure hinder their open and frequent disturbances of our publick worship , we had not power to silence their blasphemies , nor restrain their confused and tumultuous meetings , although to the high dishonour of god , in their unchristian principles and practises ( too well known ) and in prophaning the sabbath , by multitudes of their proselytes , flocking from all parts of the countrey round about us , upon that day . but now so it is , that one james naylor , a most eminent ring leader , and head of that faction , hath lately appeared here amongst us , more high then ever , in horrid and open blasphemies , expresly avowed and owned by his nearest followers , as that he is the only begotten son of god , and that there is none other then he , that he is the everlasting son of righteousness ; and that in him the hopes of israel stand ; that he is the king of israel , and prince of peace , and calling him lord and master , saying , his name shall be no more call'd james , but jesus . all which are no other , then the natural issue of their scripture denying principles . and now we desiring to follow the ductures of divine providence , which hath brought their iniquity to a heighth , at such a time as this is , when the legislative power of the nation is sitting , in whom it is to provide wholsom and good lawes , against the growing evils of the times , wherein the lord eminently ( in our apprehensions ) calls for your zeal for his glory ; we humbly make our applications to your honours , and with profession of our abhorrency , and utter detestation of the damnable and blasphemous doctrines of the quakers , which tend in their own nature , to the utter ruine of the true christian religion , and civil government , both in cities , families , and all relations , as would too soon appear , had they power in their hands ; and who now , not as heretofore tacitely , and by way of implication ; but openly and expresly dishonour that sacred name , by which we are called , and trample upon that blood by which we are justified , by making others sharers with him in his incommunicable excellencies . and do therefore humbly pray , that your honours would now take up the reines of government into your hands , which have too long layen loose in this particular , and to curb the insolencies of all ungodly persons , who in this , or any other way , do , or may eclipse the glory of our christian profession , by their unbridled and licentious liberties , that so the reproach not only of this city , but of the whole nation and government , may be rowled away , and the glory of this work , being acted by your hands , might render your name worthy to be inrolled , amongst the number of those faithful confessors , to whom the honour of our dearest lord , hath bin more precious then their lives , and all worldly enjoyments . and we shall daily pray , &c. this petition being read in the house , the 〈◊〉 of january , . with other petitions of the like nature , from several places of the nation , there was a committee appointed to take them into consideration , and to prepare a bill against blasphemy . now my fellow citizens and christian friends , and all you that are sanctified by god the father , and preserved in jesus christ , and called , even you that are called , and yet preserved : the apostle jude exhorts you earnestly to contend for the faith , which was once delivered to the saints , and the reason he gives of your standing to , and earnest contending for that faith , is in verse . for there are certain men crept in unawares , who were before of old , ordained to this condemnation , ungodly men , turning the grace of our god into lasciviousness , and denying the only lord god , and our lord jesus christ . my beloved friends , the counsel i gave in my epistle , is , that i do now give again , and beseech you to take : it s from christ himself , take heed how , and what you hear ( then i may say whom you hear . ) for what the apostle said will come , i may now say , is come , when some will not indure sound doctrine , but after their own lusts , shall they heap to themselves teachers , having itching eares : and hath not this infectious disease so spread , that many professors have been so scabby , that they are very scabs in religion ? brethren , i know something , and some such ones , and i believe some of you know more . well then , take heed , and beware , let men have a scripture-call to teach , before we have a call to hear , lest we be seduced . those seducers , who formerly came creeping in amongst us , have ( since a wicked toleration given ) so increased , and now got to that heighth of impudence , that not only houses , but churches , presse and pulpit , have sounded too loud of hellish blasphemies . i heartily wish , that that epistle of mr. r. baxter , ( prefixed to his quakers catechism ) to the separatists , and anabaptists in england , were by them laid to heart : and that the anabaptists especially , would seriously consider it : for the quakers practice is what their doctrines hold out ; for though every anabaptist be not a quaker , yet every quaker is a non-baptist , if not rebaptized : one of their queries to mr. baxter , being this , what express scripture have you for infant-baptism ? and oh that some able pen , would in the spirit of meekness , hold forth the rise of our ranting blaspheming tenents and practises , which i suppose , would easily be made appear , to be from the anabaptists doctrines . i shall give in something of my low observation , and go no farther then my own knowledge , nor from those i know , that have either printed , preacht , or practised that which is abominable , even in bristol , ( at present the receptacle of blasphemers , and base men ) and parts adjacent ; some speakers to the anabaptist church in bristol , that have in presse and pulpit , held forth such doctrines , that tend to what is abominable , both in principle and practice , and that in , and near the said city . one , an anabaptist , or rebaptized man , blames ministers for speaking from but one text , in one sermon , saying , did ever the prophets and apostles do so ? ( whither tends this ? ) in a little thing , called , a word to the world , p. . again , if you have been in the pulpit , to deliver the message of christ , why are you afraid to have your doctrine questioned ? p. . ( what meanes this ? ) the devil hath as great rhetorick and logick , as the heathen , or the national ministers . a little thing called p. no power , p. . in his dialogue between law and gospel , brings in the law querying , wilt thou not own me for rule of life ? and the gospel answering , no , by no meanes , p. . in his book entituled , a word to the pretended ministry , ( meaning the national ministry . ) he adviseth ministers to declare to their congregations , their disowning their ordination , and that speedily , else they will be laid aside , p. . in his epistle to the world , he tells the ministers , that what they yet suffer , is but the beginning of sorrow , p. . and though he gives . characters of a true gospel minister , and they be all found in each of them ; yet if they renounce not their calling , they will be laid aside , both by god and man , p. . . whither tends all this ? do not the quakers practices in opposing and questioning the ministers in their congregations ( and that with such impudence , and much disturbance ) declare themselves to be discipled by the anabaptists doctrines ? but oh that this were all ! it may be this man's weakness , but you will see anon others wickedness . consider we also those doctrines of t. c. speaker to the anabaptist church ( so called ) in wells , sworn against him , before the mayor of axbridge , in the county of somerset , by mr. carlile , minister of biddisham , and mr. smith , minister of badgeworth , viz. . that he deny'd jesus christ to be the eternal sonne of god . . that he deny'd any local heaven . . that he denyed the equality of the son with the father . . that he deny'd the trinity . . that he affirmed the saints to be the sons of god , in the same manner as christ himself . . that he affirmed the law to be abrogated . . that he affirmed , the bodies of the saints should hereafter be turned into spirits . . that he affirmed the divine essence , to be communicated to the saints . . that he deny'd jesus christ , by his death on the crosse , to satisfie divine justice . these things you have in print before . farther , this t. c. in his book ( subtly ) styled , the marrow of christianity . ( the very title whereof , caused me to spend ( or rather mis . spend ) so much time , as to read it , having taken it from a friend , a godly maid : when i saw the authour's name , left she should be seduced ) hath this passage , speaking of satan , saith he , when down right papacy will not serve , he will turn himself into a prelatical shape ; and then when once prelacy growes out of date , he can change himself into other shapes . but let me speak plainly , into an anabaptistical shape , do not those doctrines before recited , speak full enough to it ? if not , you shall see another piece of his hellish doctrine , and then you will believe it ; for in the same book , speaking of that gospel ordinance , and gracious priviledge to the infants of all believers , to wit , infant-baptism , he saith thus , that it is a mystery of iniquity , and one of the most soul ruining mysteries of iniquity , that ever came from hell . and in the year , . preaching for mr. tho : ewin , ( an anabaptist-lecturer in bristol , ) he seconded , and , as he thought , farther confirmed that hellish doctrine thus ; that whosoever pleaded for infants baptism , are no better than those jewes that pleaded for barabbas , a murderer , and refused christ . this given to me under the band of a godly christian old disciple , that heard him : friends , remember christ's counsel , take heed what you hear , and that against christs ordinances , this of infant-baptism for one for , surely , where baptism comes , it s a saving ordinance , or carries and offers salvation , in the institution of it , to the house , though every one that is baptized , is not saved : as noah's ark was a type of baptism , pet. . . and that was the saving of his house , heb. . . as ( and by ) a temporal deliverance ; and so baptism , as to an outward sign : though some baptized cham's be in , and of the house , as of old , one was in the ark . and therefore friends , this considered , you that are better satisfied with these men's call , doctrine and practice , then other christians , who ( being unsatisfied therewith ) cannot hear them : yet you may reason with your gifted brother of bristol , and know of him ( if he can tell you ) why mis-baptized ? for if amisse , you cannot be right , till you are re-baptized , as he is ; but why amisse ? because . baptized by a lawful ordained minister , and not by , &c. or why ? dly , because the element of water is applyed only to some part of the body , and not to the cloathes , as in his pool-swilling . or why ? dly , because with a little water out of a † font , and not in a river : ( a poor ground , ) is not a little font-water , as true water as the ocean ? or why ? thly , because sprinkled only on the face , and not doused over head and eares : hath not sprinkling a more fit resemblance to those texts , heb. . . pet. , . then this immodest dipping ? or why ? lastly , why you are amisse in the subject ; for you were baptized an infant : and may not this be amisse for him to say so ? why did the apostle baptize * five housholds , and was there in none of them a child , or children ? i shall tell you what † a godly minister preached unto us , for right doctrine , ( though others may call it amisse ) about infant-baptism , opening this text , acts . . &c. said that in the greek , faith is applyed only to the jaylor , and moreover he said , that the syriack reads these words , v. . he was baptized , he , and all his straight way thus . [ he , and the children of his house were baptized . ] but this godly minister of jesus christ , by a * plot of some ( of whom several are since turn'd quakers ) was put by his ministry , as to bristol , ( to the grief of all that fear'd the lord in it , ) whereby the city quite lost him . my christian friends , you have about this their practice , these three things to observe , . it s a very improbable opinion , to say or think so . . where in scripture , the houshold is mentioned , and the children excluded , there are children by name excepted , as gen. . . but in neither of these texts , which speaks of the apostles baptizing the whole house , are children excepted , therefore they ( if any were there ) are included . . until it be proved ( as it concerns these adversaries , and infant-baptism dangers , ) that there were in those housholds no children , the enemies to this truth , and blessed ordinance of infant baptism , have said nothing ; and therefore i suppose , you of right may say he is mistaken . and now to retutn . another speaker sometime to the anabaptist people in bristol , ( that i may come to speak something of their practice ) when this pool swilling , or re-baptizing , began first amongst us ) though he had a wife of his own , yet some of their fraternity meeting together , and discoursing of their experiences and liberties , how their spirits were drawn forth to act their loose principles , in as loose practices , confessed how he had enjoyed his liberty , ( rather wicked lust ) with such a woman , and she , proving with child by him , poor soul , when she could no longer hide it from the eye of the world , becomes her own executioner , and the childs both , by drowning her self in that water , wherein before she was re-baptized . this wretch , being spoken with by a godly minister , acknowledged the thing , that he had enjoyed his liberty , or rather lust : and also , that , among other tenents that they held , this was one , community of women : but ( i confess ) he said , that the sad accident that befel the poor creature , had convinced him ( if you will believe him ) of that tenent . friends , take heed whom you hear . another speaker to the anabaptist people ( but now a perfect quaker ) was so accustomed to this grosse and filthy sin , that he did lie in bed with a whore on each side of him ; for though they were both re-baptized , ( whatever you call them ) i do call them whores ; for from one of their own mouthes ( glorying of her liberty , in what they did ) was heard , that which i tremble to think on , and am ashamed to write , it being not fit for a modest tongue to speak , nor chast eares to hear , and therefore shall abruptly leave it . these people require an express text for infant-baptism , which need not , it being proved by undenyable consequences ; ) but here you see by this beastly practice , an expresse text , fulfilled in the very letter , pet. . . but it is happened unto them , according to the true proverb , the dog is turned to his own vomit again , and the sow that was washed , to her wallowing in the mire . and here you have seen a boar and two sowes , wallowing in the mire , and that after washing . friends , be not offended , for its all scripture-language . i had thought to have given a brief account of ( that taylor ) john a leyden , and that rebaptized crew , and anabaptistical fryery of munster , but i refer the reader , to the history it self , and shall only give you one relation , of the folly of two sisters , after they were seduced ( and so rebaptized ) in germany , citing the very words of the * authour : it was ( saith he ) speaking of the anabaptists in germany , ) their constant doctrine every where , that women must be common . three reasons they had , ( well worthy to be registred to posterity ) to perswade honest women to prostitute their bodies , if they would be saved . the first was , that christians must renounce those things which they love best , and therefore women must renounce their beloved honesty . the second , that for christ's sake , we must undergo any kind of infamy . the third reason was ; that the publicans and harlots , shall go before the pharisees into the kingdom of heaven . lying with other women then their wives , they called spiritual marriages , and under that title , they would lye with neeces and sisters . they had ( saith the authour ) a main reason for community of women , that as christians are all one spirit , they must also be all one body . these two maiden sisters ( spoken of before ) before they were re-baptized , saith the authour ) had been much solicited , and could never be won , till they were perswaded to be whores for conscience sake . i dare say as much for the two re-baptized creatures before mentioned , p . for i knew their conversation , for some years . * let women therefore , if they will be washed , have women-guides , and take heed of that immodest action , for men to dip them . it s the apostles counsel , avoid all appearance of evil . if there be but a shew of evil , christians are to avoid it . but of this sort of people , amongst us now , you have a character given by dennis hollister , ( who was some years an elder over them , and a speaker to them ) in his book sent to the independent-baptized people , who call themselves a church of christ in bristol , but are found to be a synagogue of satan . title page , and in p. . he telleth them , he is constrained to bear witness , that they are no church of christ , ( neither know the name of christ ) but a synagogue of satan , and a cage of unclean and hateful spirits , in which lodgeth pride , hypocrisie , envy , slandering , backbiting , railing , lying , love to this present world , and conformity to the fashions , customs , and conversation of the same . and of these i may say , as the apostle doth , these are they , whose mouthes must be stopped , who subvert whole houses , teaching things which they ought not , for filthy lucre's sake : for you see one of themselves , even a prophet of their own saith they are lyars ; this witness is true . and now brethren , these things i relate , not because i would priviledge or excuse any church or member thereof , ( even the purest ) as being altogether free from faults , ( yea , sometimes scandalous . ) but then first we must enquire , what are the principles that such do hold out ; for if they hold out sound principles in doctrine , that such things ought not to be done , ( which pharisees and other sectaries do not , but teach men so , mat. . . ) then cannot these things be justly charged on them . and then dly , we are to consider , who are the societies and supposed churches , we have to deal with in this charge ; for if they are such who pretend to higher l●ght , greater refining and reformation ; yea , ( as some of them do ) to sinless perfection , then they may be justly minded of their spots and blots , their blemishes and imperfections : and so there cannot be any retortion upon them , who , holding out sound doctrine , contend for a strict discipline , which would help these things . and let it be observed . lastly , that as for these sectaries , quakers , anabaptists , &c. ( amongst whom commonly , are such things : ) there is openly by some , and secretly by others , an opposing and undermining of those great ordinances of god , a right magistracy and ministry , who in a civil and ecclesiastical way do , or would carry on government in church and common-wealth , whereby such wicked persons and practices might be shamed and punished ; and now dealing with them who are found to despise government , we may well reprove them , ( and that without reproach ) that so many among them , do defile the flesh . likewise also , these filthy dreamers , defile the flesh , despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities . and now friends , i shall tell ye somewhat of a sermon , that i heard some years since , from an able and godly divine , who was then minister of st. nicholas in bristol , ( who was well known to us , and in those dayes , oft heard by us , ) he then , pressing the power of godliness , and strict walking in the wayes of holiness and purity , had this passage , saith he , if there be any other way to heaven , then purity ( mark ) then burn the bible , renounce thy baptism , tell god he lyes to his face . oh lamentation , brethren lamentation ! what times are we fallen upon ? burn the bible ? why , saith one seducer , he thanks god he hath done it already , as pa. . another ( dennis hollister ) at a meeting of the independent anabaptist people said , that the scripture was the greatest blind and plague to mens souls , this day in england . another j. w. said to a godly divine mr. p. that the scripture was the cause of all the divisions and distractions in the nation . renounce thy baptism . why , what is 't worth ? its null , its void , its worth nothing , you must renounce it , and be rebaptized , why ? why , your infant baptism , is a misbaptism , saith mr. ewins , ( in that answer to hollister , pa. . ) tell god he lyes to his face . why , saith another , nay , many others , so we do . the scripture , the bible , the word of god , what word of god ? what bible ? bibble babble , it s as an old almanack out of date , it s a blind and plague to the nation ( as before ) therefore we never use it , we need it not , we speak the dictates of the spirit . ah my brethren , remember the word was , take heed whom you hear , you ought to remember it , it s the word of him that is the captain of your salvation the lord jesus christ , heb. . . you know the forgetting of the word ( amongst souldiers in time of danger ) may loose thy life , and that by thy friend , he may not know thee ; nay , christ himself will one day say , for want of remembring this word ( take heed ) depart from me , i know you not . to forget the word , it may overthrow a garison , ruine an army , loose a kingdom ; nay , to forget this word , may loose thy soul , which is of more worth then all the kingdoms of the world ; nay , the world it self , will thy christ tell thee . friends , my advice is still the same , remember the word , take heed whom you hear ; and now to as many of my fellow christians and citizens , as have forgot it : the word to them is , faces about , and you know all military termes , when the word is , faces about , & no hand mentioned ; it is to be understood , to the right . so the word now is , to the right about , unto thy keeping close to publick ordinances again : to thy old puritanical principles again : to thy constant family duties again : to thy hearing ( and that only ) of those that are sent , ordained ministers again : although seducers ( to make parties , and carry on their designes , who would set us in a flame again if they could ) quarrel at ordination ( though scripture be clear for it , and as clear against usurpers and seducers , that run before they are bid to go . ) and quarrel at laying on of hands , saying , it s a ceremony ( which if so , yet by their leave , it s a gospel ceremony . ) and at presbytery ; yet that also hath an expresse text of scripture , which is a part of the everlasting gospel . well dear friends , about to infant baptism , own that ordinance in publick , let 's walk ( our selves ) more worthy of it , and answerable unto it ; blesse god for thy priviledge , that he will admit thy child , thy infant , to be a member of his church visible . oh be not so hard hearted ! as to deny that to thy child which god doth offer thee , thou being a believer , do not so easily part with thy priviledge , and that which is thy child's due . read godly mr. thomas his answer to mr. speed , p. . . the title of the book is , a vindication of scripture and ministry . brethren , the advice is again , take heed how , and what you hear . and had you not need so to do ? i suppose , that when you first heard some of your uncall'd teachers , their smooth doctrine so pleased you , that you would labour to justifie your practice in so doing ( though since , many of you are of another mind ) and you little thought , that they themselves would be rebaptized , and turn rebaptizers ; and so bring in another baptism , when the apostle saith there is but one : and you lesse thought they would unchristen you , and so ( as much as in them lyeth ) make you heathens , telling you , that you are misbaptized : but you see the nature of error . and as for this ugly immodest action of dipping , or rebaptizing , ( for i dare not call it an ordinance without sin ) it doth not only make null , and overthrow the ordinance ( as before : ) but calls in question the judgement and practice of all those grave , able , and godly divines , who have in these * sixteen hundred years , received thousands of infants , as members into the visible church , by baptism , ( and are now saints in the church triumphant ) and yet now must be questioned , and made void with a word , to call it misbaptism ; and thus nullifie the ordinance of jesus christ , infant baptism . and brethren , i call this dipping , or rebaptizing , an immodest action , because i could tell you ( the name ) of a gentleman of credit , who by accident , comming by the river ( at stony-wear ) where a woman was to be rebaptized , stayed to see the manner ( or rather immodesty ) of it , and did in the action , see her nakedness . and upon thursday the th of june , . when mr. ewin and mr. symson , dipped two men and five women , the nakedness of one of the women , in this action of dipping , was seen above her knees . for this there are many witnesses . is this an ordinance ? it s an uncivil immodest action , let us abhorre it ; and let us all take heed , that we be not by * drawing words , and fair speeches , cheated of our religion . well friends , let us about again , and take that counsel from the lord himself , jer. . . thus saith the lord , stand you in the wayes and see , and ask for the old paths , which is the good way , and walk therein , and you shall find rest for your souls . friends , take heed , and be not deceived by this sect. for its the observation of many godly divines , that where this prevaileth , god doth usually follow it with some sad judgements . the story of munster , hath sufficiently set them forth . oh! the rapes , the poligamy , the murders that were there committed , which i thought to make some brief relation of , but i would avoid tediousness , and , to help you further to lamentation , shall leave the reader to the story it self . for though an anabaptist in print tells you , the argument of munster hath been so oft prest , that its wore thred-bare , ( he dares not say , 't is not true ) yet let me tell you , that it s to be feared , had these men power , they would make this thred-bare argument cotton again . and they begin to talk already , a commission-officer in ireland ( and that no mean one neither , but now out of commission ) told a person of quality of this city , ( he discoursing with him , about their dipping or rebaptizing there in that nation ) that though for a while they did forbear , yet , if we did not come about to them , to be rebaptized , they should look upon us , as they did upon the rebels of ireland . brethren , you see what is spoken , and one man may speak the sence of a great many , and it s no hard matter to instance action ( towards it ) as well as words * but a few moneths since , but i forbear . and truly , some are of opinion , ( and that not a few ) that had this generation power , their quarter and termes might be as bad ( if not worse ) as what nahash offer'd the men of jabesh gilead , which was to thrust out all their right eyes . and now truly i think , if there be any such necessity of dipping , it may be to cool the heat of those , who are exercised with such an immodest action , i judge not how chast their thoughts are at such a time , but leave it to him that knowes them , but i know they are but men . but brethren , that we may be established in this blessed truth , and gospel-ordinance of infant baptism , let us read and consider that unanswerable treatise of godly mr. baxter about it : and i also recommend mr. sydenham his treatise of infant baptism , and another gospel-ordinance ( in which they that fear the lord , have much communion with him ) to wit , singing of psalms . the book is of no great price , i desire a serious reading of the , , , & chapters , where this godly man , though dead , yet speaketh , to the satisfaction ( i suppose ) of every sober christian . and brethren , i shall to this , close with desiring a judicious reading of a letter , of that eminent christian , and godly martyr of the lord , mr. john philpot , who sealed , amongst other truths , this ( truth also ) of infant baptism . the letter is an answer to a young man , that seemed to stumble at infant baptism , where you have in short , arguments sufficient , against all the adversaries of this truth : and in this letter , he proveth the baptism of infants , from the apostles practice ; and tells us of one auxentius , who was one of the arian sect , that first deny'd the baptism of infants ; and next after him , pelagius the heretick ; and in our dayes ( saith he ) the anabaptists ( be not offended , it s the words of this saint and martyr of the lord , mr. philpot ) who are an inordinate kind of men , stirred up by the devil , to the destruction of the gospel . his letter is thus subscribed , your yoak-fellow in captivity , for the verity of christs gospel , to live and die with you in the unity of faith , john philpot. brethren , i do not undertake disputation ( but i desire lamentation ) blessed be god , that is done already to our hands ( and this truth maintained and defended by grave , able , and godly men , ( yea martyrs ) let us then put it to heart , and bewail this also , with rivers of teares , that an ordinance of jesus christ ( to wit , infant baptism ) should be thus justled out by such immodest action , in rivers of water . friends , keep to hearing , as before advised , and take that counsel , that the prophet gives to the people : therefore hearken not you to your prophets , nor to your diviners , nor to your filthy dreamers , ( so jude hath it ) nor to your inchanters , nor to your sorcerers , which speak unto you , saying , ( look to the light within you ) you shall not serve the king of babylon , for they prophesie a lye unto you . now that you may be prevailed with , to keep close to your own and known godly ministers , ( lest you come to be bewitched , as the gallathians then were , and many poor souls now are ) take heed and beware of the occasions . providence having ordered my habitation in that parish and street , where the synagogue of satan is , ( i mean the quakers meeting-place ) i may happily observe something more than you , though considering my pastor over me , and my ordinance enjoyments , i desire to blesse god , and can say , my lot is fallen in a goodly heritage : and though god may have his antipas , even where satans seat is : yet its sad , to speak of the knowledge of such things ( of which we tremble to speak ) and that of those that promised better . but oh that my head were waters , and my eyes a fountain of teares ! that i might weep day and night for these things , that people ( by taking liberty to hear any ) should be so seduced , as to hold forth such deeds of darkness , instead of light . what saith one ? do you look to be saved by the boy that was born at jerusalem ? oh my soul ! its that holy child jesus , that these wretches ( who are now got up to sit in the seat of the scornful ) do thus jeer . others buy and sell on the lords day , and ( being spoken with thereabout ) tell you , all dayes are alike : some work , water gardens , dry cloathes , travel and ride upon that day , viz. a perfect quaker , whose maid-servant went some moneths with child by him , before he married her , ( a blessed perfection among them . ) another eminent quaker , who had a child by his wives sister , as appeared by his running away after she was delivered , ( and that by her self . ) and then the child being put to her sister to nurse , in some few dayes died , ( but how i know not , ) and then he returned again . and that you may see hell broke loose upon us , * mark further , and if these things bring not teares from thee , beg of god to soften thy heart , and mourn that thou canst not mourn . the th of july , . an honest young man , reasoned with a perfect quaker , who told him , that he did thank god he had burnt the bible , and disswaded the said young man , from reading it any more , or praying any more , but to hearken to the light within him . oh my soul ! its the blessed book , that god by his good providence hath preserved , and handed over to us , from one generation to another , and , if thou hast any comfort here , or hopes of any hereafter , thou hast it thence . and my soul , do thou keep close to god in prayer . and friends , let us be of davids mind , and tell the lord , it is time lord , for thee to work , for they have made void thy law ; therefore ( oh beg for david's heart , ) i love thy commandements above gold , yea , above fine gold : therefore ( again ) i esteem all thy precepts , ( mark ) concerning all things to be right , and i hate every false way . why my brethren , every word of god is pure , what ever men and devils say to the contrary . one thing more , consider this examination following , and then tell me what you think of toleration ; mean while , i shall tell you what a grave and able divine said , and preached of it ( when the warre was between us and the dutch , ) that we , like them , tolerating all religions amongst us , god , in his judgement at present upon us , will not suffer us to tolerate one another . at the general sessions of the peace , held in the city of bristol , the th of february , . the examination of thomas peacock . this peacock asked one that was with him , this question , dost thou believe on that thief that was hanged at jerusalem ? it is that doth delude thee and all the world : and the priests do preach up this fellow . another deposeth , that the said peacock asked the said informant , whether he knew that there was a god and a devil , and swore several oaths , in a ranting manner , and yet justified himself to be without sin . saith the informant , do you justifie god your self to be without sin ? to which , peacock answered , that he did not sin , neither could he sin . saith the informant , is not this your swearing in this manner a sin ? and if you couzen , and cheat , or be drunk , is not that sin ? no , saith peacock , it s no sin ; and then the said peacock , brought a place of scripture , there is no evil in the city , but god is the authour of it . and declared , that god was the authour of all sin . then the informant told the said peacock , that he was mistaken , that god did suffer sin , but was not the authour of sin . then peacock reply'd , that god and the devil were brothers , and did act one with another : and as touching swearing , the said peacock said , the greater his oath was , the greater was his glory . another deposeth , that he asked the said peacock , why he did not observe the sabbath day , and go to church ? he replyed , that he knew not the sabbath , neither would he hear baal's priests . and the informant at another time , heard him say , that there was no devil , and that the devil was a poor rogue , and did nothing but wash the dishes , and sweep the house , and run on an errant , when one would send him . peter poulston and humphry wall , both depose as followeth . that upon whit-tuesday , . this informant wall , speaking of god and christ , the said peacock answered , what , dost thou talk of a god ? there is no such thing as thou talkest of . the informant asked him , how was then the world created ? to which the said peacock answered , thou talkest of what thou knowest not . then the informant asked him , what dost thou make of our saviour christ ? i am ashamed to express the answer in my own language , it being so filthy ; but it was sworn to , therefore take this beast's beastly answer ( of a friend ) in another tongue , e podice meo , christum aeque bonum egerere possum . brethren , i could further tell ye the place where , the time when , the parties whom ( but i forbear ) being a company of anabaptists and quakers sitting together , and discoursing of god and christ , &c. and look as that great blasphemer peacock ( before ) spake so abominable filthy of our lord jesus christ ; so one of these spake as abominable filthy , of that glorious and fearful name of the lord our god , ( as thus , ) one of this sweet company , when they were speaking of god , [ to speak as modestly as i can ] broke wind , and said , there goes your god . oh brethren ! whose hair is not an end , and heart trembling , to hear such horrid filthiness , and unheard of blasphemy , that we cannot sufficiently bewail ? truly , if ever we had need , now is the time as the prophet speaks , to call for the mourning women [ whose affections being tender , may help as to lamentation ] that they may come , and let them make haste , and take up a wailing for us , that our eyes may run down with teares ; and our eye lids gush out with waters . and oh ! that our soules could bewail these things ! brethren , god hath his mourners in secret , ( though but few . ) oh let god see ( though none else do ) by our practice , that we are of that number , and then happily we may be marked in the day of the lord's vengeance . go , saith god to the prophet , set a mark upon the fore-head of the men , that sigh , and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst of them : and methinks , god speaks to prophets in these dayes , as to ezekiel . sigh therefore , thou son of man , with the breaking of thy loynes , and with bitterness sigh before their eyes . ( and oh ! that we could see more affection in prophets , before and over their congregations , then there is , such , as we see paul had , phil. . . for many walk , of whom i have told you often , and now tell you , even weeping , that they are the enemies of the crosse of christ , ) and it shall be , when they say unto thee , why sighest thou ? that thou shalt answer . for the tydings , because it commeth , and every heart shall melt , and all hands shall be feeble , and every spirit shall faint , and all knees shall be weak as water . behold it commeth , and shall be brought to passe saith the lord god . you the lords prophets , reverend fathers , and our dear pastors over us in the lord , if your people ask you , why sigh you ? oh that you had not matter to answer them ! it was the judgement of the sword , that was comming upon jerusalem , and in a fearful manner , with such expressions from god , that i am sure we seldom hear of ; but in this place god did lay about him to purpose , and therefore saith the lord , vers. , . go thee one way or other , forward or backward , either on the right hand , or on the left , whether on the right hand , or on the left , whither soever thy face is set , i will smite my hands together , and i will cause my furie to rest , ( mark ) i the lord have said it . it s true and to our comfort , the rod of the wicked shall not rest on the back of the righteous ; but ( if the righteous transgress ) . the rod of god may . and the prophet tells us , that the lord will not deliver his people unto the will of his enemies ; ( but let me tell you , he did deliver his son up to their will , as hath been already shewed ; but this by the way . ) but do people ask , why do ministers weep and sigh so bitterly ? you , the lords prophets , can tell them better than i , you can tell us , it s for those hideous unheard of blasphemies , not to be paralleld , which are bringing upon us unknown , unheard of , and ( which is yet worse ) spiritual judgements . nay , do we not read of judgements , that the lord threatens that we never read of ? the lord will bring upon thee every plague , that is not written in the book of this law . and if we should think of escaping , the text tells us , that those curses shall pursue and overtake us , vers. . well , as we are free from opposing prophets , let us take heed we do not slight their sayings . consider we that place , be ye not , as your fathers , unto whom the former prophets have cryed , saying , thus saith the lord of hosts , turn ye now from your evil wayes , and from your evil doings ; but they did not hear , nor hearken unto me , saith the lord . ( mark ) god takes our not hearkening unto his prophets , a not hearkening unto him . well , your fathers , where are they ? and the prophets , do they live for ever ? but my words and my statutes , which i commanded my servants the prophets , did they not take hold of your fathers ? and they returned and said , like as the lord of hosts thought to do unto us , according to our wayes , and according to our doings , so hath he dealt with us . and truly brethren , it were no hard thing to trace out , how the lord hath been , and is fulfilling this text upon us . since we let fall the first cause we ingaged in ( for some men have shewed themselves , as skilful to deceive , as to destroy . ) i will chastize them as their congregations have heard . but brethren , i intend not confutation of error , ( having neither time nor ability so to do , ) but lamentation . but blessed be god , we have a considerable number of godly able ministers , that have born their testimony to the truth of jesus christ , and to their solemn league and covenant . as also against the errors , heresies , and blasphemies of these times , and the toleration of them , which is the title of their book , printed in . and that the world may see , they are neither afraid , nor ashamed to own what they have done , it s subscribed by no lesse then ministers of christ , within the province london . and many fifties , i doubt not but , there are in the nation of the same mind , though they may seem caved , to many of us , as the prophets of god in honest obadiah's time so covered . and my brethren , what ever others do , these i look upon to be to england ( as elisha said of elijah . ) the chariots of israel , and the horsemen thereof . and further let me say , blessed be god , these blasphemies and errors are well answered and confuted by some able godly ministers , whose doctrine and manner of life we have known . as by those . godly ministers of new castle , in a book called , the perfect pharisee . also mr. william thomas , minister of the gospel at ubley , and by mr. christopher fowler , and mr. symon ford of reading , mr. ralph farmer of bristol , and mr. baxter of kidderminster , whose solid sharp ( yet sweet ) epistle to the separatists and anabaptists in england , is worthy serious observation in his book called , the quakers catechism . now of those solid judicious answers of these holy men of god ; we may truly say ( as job speaks . ) how forcible are right words ? and as truly of their adversaries , the words following . but what doth your arguing reprove ? and indeed brethren , some had need undertake it ; for i dare say , if all the errors , that proceeded from all the hereticks since christ's incarnation , did appear together , we should see this our toleration have produced them , as may be seen in james nailor and his disciples : let him therefore be jezabel ( if you will ) not jesus , as they blasphemously call him . and that you may see somewhat more of their wickedness , i shall here insert a passage , which doth declare , not only their actions deserving , but also their expressions reproaching , the due execution of justice upon them . upon the th of february , . one lewes harris , a quaker , having been in the countrey , came home to his house in bristol , and there meets with one william hill , a brother of that fryery , who ( amongst other discourse , askt the said harris , why he sell from his principles ( meaning as he was a quaker . ) he answers , that he should not account for him ; but they further discoursing of their pure religion , ranting and quaking , at last their words came to blowes , and harris murders hill ; for which murder he was ( aug. th , . in bristol ) arraigned and condemned , and the . day executed . thus having such wicked principles , they both came to this untimely and shameful end . this harris had a letter from some quakers , which he when he was upon the gallowes , convey'd to a godly minister , there attending to exhort him to mind his condition ; the minister , having received it , tore it presently in pieces : upon which , some quakers that were then present , said , what , will ye persecute to the death ? thus calling this just execution for murder persecution . and my brethren , is not this also to be bewailed , that such liberty should be given to a people of such principles , who would not have murderers executed , but call it persecution ? when the government by bishops was taken away , ( though its supposed , it would have been better for the nation , if that counsel given , by that reverend father , and learned doctor of our church , bishop usher , primate of ireland , had been taken , as it was tendered in . propositions to the parliament , in the year for the reduction of episcopacy , into the form of synodical government ) after that time , there came forth a little thing , called lambeth fair , where you might have bought many surplices , hoods , coapes , caps , and variety of such knacks and need-nots , very reasonable . i confess ; that in that government , there were many things , which my low apprehension saw no need of , as , that there should be . diocesan lord bishops , that they should have chancellors , registers , with their men , . proctors , . apparitors at leaft , and many more then a good many : the whole number appertaining to arch-bishops , bishops , arch-deacons , with the rest belonging to them , are judged to be no fewer than ten thousand persons , which at but li . per annum a man , is two hundred thousand pounds , and to maintain the bishops courts , and their greatness , was at least four hundred and fifty thousand pounds per annum more , besides the charges of the . deanes to the great churches , and canons residents , and prebendaries ; besides many petty canons , vicars , singing-men and boyes , organists , gospellers , & epistlers , which took up in lands , three or four thousand pounds yearly . all this you have more largely set forth in a book , entituled , a short view of the prelatical church of england . at this fair of lambeth , things being sold cheap , were soon bought , and the great revenue of the prelates and collegiat churches ( which would have given a comfortable subsistance to a godly ministry ) was put off by such whole-sale peny worhs , that it was quickly distributed , by those that knew well enough , how to divide the spoil : well , you are deceived , the good lord give repentance to the deceivers . friends , lambeth-fair is at an end , and you know , fairs do not use to belong , but markets are more frequent ; and since lambeth fair , hath been down , there hath been a market up , called toleration , and such commodities are to be sold at the sign of the black-spread eagle , near pauls , by giles calvert , where you may be furnished with such writings , books and pamphlets , that shall deny god , christ , spirit , word , ordinances , resurrection , heaven , hell , what not ? brethren , i shall give you a sad view of some of those wares , though i do not advise the buying any of them , but beseech you to abhorre and detest them , touch not , tast not , handle not , ( for they shall all perish , and they that walk by them . ) and , as i said , take heed what you hear ; so also what you read : but that we may the more bewail the abuse of liberty , and the sad effects of toleration , whereby our god hath been so dishonoured , the gospel scandalized , and the truth of our profession justly questioned , consider the wares here suffered to be sold , which are such , as though we counted hell a fable , or to endeavour the filling it our duty . one comes , sir , have you a book that declares the bible not to be the word of god , and that it is but humane ? yea , here it is called , the pilgrimage of saints . p. . by lawrence clearkson . sir , you may have two or three more . sir , have you any against the nature and essence of god ? yea , arguments by john biddle . p. . saith he , it s a wretched distinction , to distinguish between essence and person . and that god hath more hand in mens sinfulness than themselves , in a book stiled comfort for believers . p . you may have or more . sir , have you any thing against the trinity of persons in unity of essence ? yea , that the son to be co equal with the father , or the holy spirit , to be a distinct co-equal person , is from the chappel of rome . paul beast . p. . . sir , have you any book to declare that christ is not god ? yea , the better part of christ's person is man , there being but a gradual difference betwixt him and moses , and us : and to make christ co-equal with his father , is to make a false christ , or two gods . mysteries discovered by paul beast . p. . sir , sir , have you any book against the deity of the holy ghost ? yea , the holy ghost is no more omnipresent than the devil . arguments by john biddle . p . sir , have you any book against gods election ? yea , they who preach , that none shall be saved but the elect and predestinate , are notable lyars . divine light . p. . sir , have you any book against original sin ? yea , if we had been to suffer in hell , in relation to adam , or the law , then christ also should have suffered in hell for us , which he did not . fulness of gods love . p. . sir , have you any book against christ as mediator ? yea , christ came not to reconcile god to men , but men to god . for though christ do hold forth love and life , yet he did not purchase it , but was purchased by it . paul hobson . p. . . sir , have you any book to maintain universal redemption ? yea , if god commanded the gospel to be preached to all , and christ died only for some , then god commands a lye to be preached to the most part of men . fulness of gods love . p. . the damned shall be saved , for christ descended into hell to break their bonds , preaching peace to them . divine light . p. . heathens , hypocrites , and devils , have for a time damned themselves , but will be delivered . p. . . that they are devils incarnate , who are , or shall be found to deny the covenant of general redemption . divine light the epistle to the reader . sir , have you any book that doth deny the immortality of the soul , resurrection , heaven , hell ? yea , many that deny all and say , that man ( as a rational creature ) is a compound , wholly mortal , contrary to the common distinction of soul and body ; and that the present going of the soul , into heaven or hell , is a meer fiction . man's mortality by r. o. title page . it s also called the hell-hatched doctrine of the immortal soul . that none ever enter into heaven , since the creation . p. . that it is clear in scripture , there is no resurrection of the natural body , but it s to be understood of the body mystical , scripture prophecies opened by e. avery . p. . that that reasonable soul , which is in all mankind , is god himself , who is in a wicked man , as well as in the saints . p. . that no man is yet in hell . fulness of gods love . . l.s. p. . that all other creatures , as well as man , shall be raised , and delivered from death at the resurrection . mans mortality . p. . . well brethren , black wares , and hellish commodities , many more of which , you have set down in that book before mentioned , ( viz. the ministers of london , their bearing testimony to the truth ) which i desire every stayd and well principled christian to have by him . and that this market may be kept up , saith one , no detriment can redound either to church or common-wealth , by the toleration of religions , in mysteries discovered by the aforesaid paul best ( beast . ) p. . brethren , i should not descant upon any mans name , but that two apostles speaking of seducers , are full to it . but these , as natural bruit [ beasts ] made to be taken , and destroyed , speak evil of the things that they understand not , and shall utterly perish in their own corruption , and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness , sporting themselves with their own deceivings . beasts ( saith the apostle ) made to be taken and destroyed ; not as christians , but as hereticks , if not as men , yet as beasts ; if not destroyed , yet taken , that is restrained which may be best . another , speaking of errors that may be preached by guifted brethren , saith , the more publickly they are , the lesse harm they will do . in mr. shepheard's book , called the peoples privil●dge and duty guarded against the pulpit and preachers incroachment p. but if mr. shepard should be asked , whether it hath so proved ? if he say yea , i think the hellish blasphemies , that have made our eares to tingle , ( and should make our hearts to ake ) would give him the lye . heretical things ( as a godly divine observes ) are like the roots of thorns , that are in themselves soft ; but from that softness , they bring forth pricking and piercing things ; and as that godly minister further observes ; though liberty in it self be a good thing , yet its weaklings temptation , and seducers advantage , and i am sure it hath sadly proved so , and that to the tearing to pieces of god and christ , and all that is ( and should be ) dearer to us then our very lives . well , if you will buy further , giles calvert will fit you . sir , have you any book against the ministers ? yea , against all the teachers in the nation as ministers of antichrist , by * thomas speed a merchant in bristol , as appeares by his epistle to all the publick teachers in the nation , prefixed to his book , called , a brief and plain reply unto certain papers received from william thomas , called a minister of the gospel at ubley in somersetshire . and indeed is not only called so , but by all that fear the lord , ( who know him ) owned to be so , being a blessed instrument in the hand of the lord jesus , for the converting , confirming and comforting of many saints at ubley , and the places adjacent ; and for the confirming of this truth , i desire all my christian friends to read , and consider his solid and sober answers to mr. speeds epistle , and to his book . sir , i see you are furnisht with such choice , that you can supply any , if they come from hell , you can fit them , and indeed you have ( i suppose ) from all nations chapmen ; but sir , i am of turkey , and from mahomet , can you supply me also ? yea sir , i can help you to the alcoran ( it self ) of mahomet , translated out of arabick into french , and since our ( blessed ) liberty , into english . sir , have you a catechisme for children , that they may learn to know that principle the light within them ? yea sir , and this catechism is so approved , that its ( already ) the second edition , enlarged by george fox , and printed for giles calvert , at the black-spread eagle , at the west end of pauls . my brethren , though this book be for little ones , yet it s not the least to be bewailed by us , and we may with grief of heart , call this liberty ( as a grave divine doth . ) an intolerable toleration , that there should be a a printing , and reprinting of that , which may teach the children of christian parents , heathenish principles ( to wit ) to look only to the light within them ; and that this principle may be the better fastened into their memories , the word lighteth , inlightneth , and light is used ( at least ) six hundred times , and it teacheth them that the scripture is no light ; one of the questions being thus , is the scripture the light ? answ. nay , thus answer these perfect sinners ( though humble saints say as david did , thy word is a lanthorn to my feet , and a light to my steps . and solomon tells us , the commandement is a lamp , and the law is light . ) and teaching those little ones also to deny the sabbath , the question being thus , is the first day the sabbath ? answ. nay , teaching them also , that the ministers of the nation are of babylon , antichrist , false prophets and seducers : thus endeavouring to train them up so , that their practice may be like to those wicked prophane children , that mocked the prophet elisha ; insomuch , that the lord sent two beares out of the wood , and destroyed two and forty of them . let children ( as an antidote against this , ) take that into their catechism . and let me say to this authour fox , ( and his companions ) whose subtilty ( and craft ) is used ( by the help of satan ) to convey poyson into our little ones , that although the almighty god do not send beares out of the wood to destroy them ( as those prophane children ) yet , ( with reverence let me say ) he may one day so play the bear , with those that forget the lord ( in opposing and contemning his servants , and teach others so ) as once he threatned to do with those that forgat him , saying , their heart was exalted , therefore have they forgotten me , i will meet them , ( saith the lord ) as a bear that is robbed of her whelps , i will rent the caul of their heart . truly friends , unlesse these wretches meet god timely by repentance , his meeting them thus will make them quake indeed . but sir , i have heard of one james nailor , to be accused for horrid blasphemy , and personating the lord jesus christ , and that some did own him as their saviour , and that one of his disciples said , that she did look to be saved by no other but him , i suppose , you have no such thing as to justifie him ; for i am told , the parliament passed a severe sentence upon him , and that it s executed . oh sir , i 'le tell you , it s nothing but the priests malice , and sir , here is a book of little price ( for so the good people may have them ; ( i 'le not get by them ) where you shall see his innocency cleared by two eminent men ( wicked seducers ) who told nailors judges ( many parliament men ) to their faces , of his innocency : nay , * robert rich chalenged them at the parliament door , that whatever nailor did , or spake , he was at their door ready to make it good out of scripture ; and that nothing he did or spake , was worthy of death or bonds . and that those books may spread in the nation , there are store at bristol , sold by nicholas jorden ( a perfect quaker , if common drunkenness and perfection may stand together ) and that at . farthings a peece . now among other things , that are reckoned in the merchandize of babylon , are the souls of men ; and to the end , poor souls may be the better fitted for babylon ; yea , for hell it self : you see some part ( and but a part ) of what this tolerating market doth hold forth , and that very cheap . o my friends ! take heed and beware who you hear , how you read , and what you buy : and why will you lay out your money for that which is not bread ( but blasphemy , ) when you may have wine and milk without money , and without price ? friends , there is a disease we are all infected with , its hereditary from our first parents [ pride ] you know who said to eve , you shall be as gods , knowing good and evil , ( mark ) and when she saw ( saith the text ) it was a tree to be desired , to make one wise , she took of the fruit thereof , and did eat . and so now , we must hear all , try all , read all ; we shall thereby be wise , and get knowledge . ( ah white devil ! ) knowledge ( saith the apostle ) puffeth up ; and hath it not done so ? speak christian . is not that text sadly fulfilled . isa. . . the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient , &c. godly mr. baxter . ah my friends , keep to your known teachers , and labour for humility ; for ( saith one ) none are more like to christ , then the humble , that are low in their own eyes , and compassionate of others : so none are more like to the devil , then the proud , that think highly of themselves , and contemptuously of others . these men by their teachings , by their printings , by their travels , from one end of the land to the other ; yea , from one nation to another , from sea to sea ; yea , and beyond the seas they act , as satans factors to make proselytes , and , when made , they make them twofold more the children of the devil than themselves . abhorre therefore , and detest the pharisees ( and quakers ) singularity . god i thank thee , i am not as other men , &c. but if they be not as other men ( i suppose ) they ( the quakers ) are as other heathens , who walk by the light within them , as well as ( yea far better then ) they ; for they ( to wit the heathen ) cannot so blaspheme our lord jesus christ ( as these do ) whose relation to us , and suffering for us , should move us to bewail it : and oh ! that we could bewail his oft bleeding ( if it were possible ) with teares of blood . and that we may shun the condition of these seduced souls ; lets us consider this text , for its impossible for those , who were once enlightned , and have tasted of the heavenly gift , and were made partakers of the holy ghost , and have tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come : if they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance , seeing they crucifie to themselves the son of god afresh , ( mark , it s to themselves ) and put him to an open shame . was ever this text so fulfilled as now it is in these wretches ? who speak so shamefully of our lord jesus , that we ( tremble and ) are ashamed to name it in our own language . these things are a lamentation , and shall be for a lamentation . and oh ! that we could mourn therefore , as those doves in the valley , every one for his iniquity ! the prophet speaking of several plagues ( as famine , drought , dearth , pestilence , the sword ; nay , he overthrew some of them , as sodom ) that were brought upon israel ; he by way of complaint , tells them no lesse then five times ; yet have ye not returned unto me , saith the lord . at last , the lord comes in with this sad threatning , ( a hidden judgement . ) therefore thus will i do unto thee oh israel ! ( thus , what thus , who knowes ? and because i will do thus unto thee , prepare to meet thy god oh israel ! oh ! that england would prepare to meet the lord ! why ? because he will do thus , what thus ? he will bring , shall i say ? nay , he hath brought , not bodily ( that 's too little , it hath done no good upon england , as it did not upon israel ) but spiritual judgements ; and certainly , such spiritual plagues , that neither we nor our fathers ever beheld the like , and are ( as mr. baxter observes ) as evident notes of gods heavy displeasure , as men can expect to see on earth . and is not that text now fulfilled , viz. and for this cause , god shall send them strong delusions , that they shall believe a lye : ( mark , send seducers ) that they all might be damned , who believe not the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousness . ah poor seduced souls ! they cry up heathen principles ( a light within them , casting off the light the word of god without them : ) and see how the lord in judgement , doth give them up to their brethren , ( the heathens ) practices . they changed the truth of god into a lye , for this cause ( saith the text ) god gave them up to vile affections , and to a reprobate mind , and to an abominable conversation , being filled with all unrighteousness , fornication , wickedness , covetousness , maliciousness ; full of envy , murder , debate , deceipt , malignity , whisperers , back-biters , haters of god , despiteful , proud , boasters , inventers of evil things , disobedient to parents , without understanding , covenant-breakers , without natural affection , implacable , unmerciful . here is a blessed pack of quakers ; i so say , because amongst them in this synagogue of satan ( so near me ) without wrong ( for i would not wrong the devil ) there might be drawn out such persons , in whom these black ethiopian spots are . ah poor england ! ( ah hypocritical nation ! ) may not god plead with us , as once with his people ? passe over the isses , go beyond the seas , amongst the very heathen , and consider diligently , and see if there be such a thing . hath a nation changed their gods , which yet are no gods ? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit . have we not ( since this wretched toleration ) changed ( nay lost ) the glory of our gospel-profession ? and is not that of the prophet isaiah , a right character upon us ? ah sinful nation , a people laden with iniquity , a seed of evil doers , children that are corrupters , ( mark ) they have forsaken the lord , they have provoked the holy one of israel to anger , they are gone away backward . and may not this provocation of the lord cause him to say , shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this ? ( that did , with their hands lifted up to the most high god , covenant for reformation ) who by a toleration , are become an hypocritical and false nation ? oh my brethren ! my councel is still the same . take heed how you hear , for we shall one day give account for what we hear . and that we may take the more heed , consider what falseness the book of god discovers unto us for our caution , viz. a false nation ( as before . ) false christs ( the occasion of my narrative ) you have also false spirits , seducing spirits , then false prophets , and false apostles , cor. . . false teachers in the forecited place of peter , then false brethren ; then you have false faith . and last of all ( which is worst of all ) a false heart , tim. . . speaking lies in hypocrisie , having their conscience seared with a hot iron . now brethren , there being so much falseness in all these particulars , how much doth it concern us , what , whom , and how we hear ? it s said , the lord was with jehosaphat , because he walked in the first wayes of his father david : ah brethren , the first wayes of professors , when they kept close to their known ministers , then they kept close to god and christ , sabbaths , ordinances , duties ; these good old wayes , were the first and best wayes . let us walk couragiously in this way , & the lord shall be with the good . and however the prophets of god are opposed & contemned , let us keep to rule , we shal never else be established , either nation or kingdom ( what rule ? mark ) believe in the lord your god , so shall ye be established , believe his prophets , so shall ye prosper . ah sad toleration ! the lord give repentance to england , for all those abominations it hath usher'd in , and protected among us . the good lord , after they in power over us , have repented ( of whom we may say as ezra . . yea , the hand of the princes and rulers , hath bin chief in this trespass ) give them further grace , to make a law of restraint , lest the judgement of god , ( which is justly to be feared ) break in upon them and us , without remedy . but they mocked the messengers of god , and despised his words , and misused his prophets , until the wrath of the lord arose against his people , till there was no remedy . well , however let us honour them , for that is an everlasting truth , he is a prophet , and shall pray for thee . and , had we not their prayers , it would be sad with england : nay , god forbid they should so sin , as not to pray for us ; well , then let us make conscience of praying for them , and there is this reason for it ; for if all estates and ranks amongst as should desert profession , and despise the gospel , yet they are set for the defence of it ; and therefore ( hear them ) pray for them : to which i shall add this prayer , the good lord be attentive to the prayer of thy servant , and the prayer of thy servants ( both prophets and people ) that desire to fear thy name . and brethren , is not this to be bewailed , that there should be such calling for toleration , the mischiefs and sad effects of it being so many , and so great , that they cannot be aforehand imagined ; besides the further disturbance of the peace , by different factions , and making the divisions in families , to be almost as many as persons ; suppose the husband a good protestant , it may be the wife an independent , the children anabaptists , the servants quakers . oh brethren ! how sad is this ? and moreover , that there should be a conniving at those ranting opinions that tend to all manner of ungodliness , which have so spread , that it hath infected the nation from head to foot . witness the great friends blasphemy , and this unparalleld blasphemer had , that put the parliament to so much expence of time , before that honourable sentence was given against him ( death it self being his desert . ) this considered , o that those in power over us , would at last prove such happy reformers to the nation , and shew such pitty to the souls of their poor brethren , as to put a restraint upon all soul-infecting persons , and set on fire all those soul-poysoning and blaspheming pamphlets that are abroad , ( which would be an acceptable sacrifice . ) for it s to be feared , that christians may have just cause to rue the liberty given ( to presse and pulpit ) in these dayes : now that people might have some stop , when tumbling headlong into hell , being so principled , that they think it their duty to do hell service . oh! that the parliament ( who had such an impostor and blasphemer brought before them , ( that their predecessors never heard of the like ) had made the nation so happy , as to compel people ( as one saith well ) to ordinances , though unwillingly that so ( if possible ) they might be brought to god , and goodness willingly ! and for their incouragement , they had in holy writ , a very imitable pattern , josiah by name , and josiah took away all the abominations : ( many pamphlets abroad are abominable things ) out of all the countries that pertained to the children of israel , and made all that were present in israel to serve ( made them to serve ) even to serve the lord their god , and all his dayes they departed not from following the lord , the god of their fathers . and a good effect it had upon them ; for all his dayes they kept close to god . thus to appear and act for the good of souls , will be your crown . arise therefore and be doing , and the lord be with you now the lord is with you , while you be with him , and if you seek ( and act for ) him , he will be found of you ; but if you forsake him , he will forsake you . arise therefore , for this matter belongeth unto you , we also ( say they that fear the lord ) will be with you , be of good courage and do it . then arose ezra and did it , go ye and do likewise , and the lord be with the just , amen . an epistle of publius lentulus , ( found in the romane annals ) at that time president in judea , under tiberius the emperour , ) written to the senate of rome : ( a copy whereof was found ( among other papers , to the number of . ) about nailor's disciples , at their first examination before the magistrates of bristol . ) there appeared in these our dayes , a man of great vertue , named jesus christ , who is yet living amongst us , and of the gentiles , is accepted for a prophet of truth , but his own disciples call him the son of god . he raiseth the dead , and cureth all manner of diseases . a man of stature , somewhat tall and comely , with a very reverend countenance , such as the beholders may both love and fear ; his hair of the colour of a philbert full ripe , and plain almost down to his eares , from the eares downwards , somewhat curled , and more orient of colour , waving about his shoulders ; in the midst of his head goeth a seam , or partition of his hair , after the manner of the nazarites ; his fore-head very plain and smooth , his face without spot or wrinckle , beautified with a comly red : his nose and mouth so formed , as nothing can be reprehended ; his beard somewhat thick , agreeable in colour , to the hair of his head , not of any great length , but forked in the midst , of an innocent and mature look ; his eyes gray clear and quick ; in reproving , he is terrible ; in admonishing , courteous , and fair spoken , pleasant in speech , mixed with gravity ; it cannot be remembred , that any have seen him laugh , but many have seen him weep ; in proportion of body well shaped and straight ; his hands and arms right delectable to behold , in speaking very temperate , modest , and wise ; a man for his singular beauty surpassing the children of men . to some particulars in this description ( that wicked impostor ) james nailor , bearing some small natural resemblance , viz. in shape of body and colour , of hair , he ( cunningly like himself ) endeavours to answer the rest , ( whereunto he was much unlike by nature ) by an artificial composure of his countenance , to an affected gravity , parting the hair of his head , wearing his beard forked , and the like ; the better to carry on his damnable juggling and imposture , among those poor deluded wretches , that were given up to believe lies ; that so they might take him to be the person there described , and be drawn the more easily to give him that honour and worship that doth of right belong to the true jesus . an end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- cor. . . , . tim. . . chap. . v. . thes. . . mar. . . luk. . . thes. . . jude . vers. . isa. . . rom. . . cor. . . jer. . . mar. . . luk. . . cap. . . rom. . , . isa. . : ephes. . . john . . cor. . . notes for div a e- cor. . . pa. , . r. p. pa. . ephes. . . exod. . . in his epistle to the separatists and anabaptists , prefixed to his quakers catechism . ming . . . as every sound is not musick , so every sermon is not preaching . heb. . . tim. . . obj. answ . mr. r. f. his satan inthroned . pet. . . heb. . . his examination before the magistrates of bristol . joh. . , , . tim. . . ezek. . . pet. . , . acts . . thes. . . notes for div a e- * a whip for the horse , a bridle for the asse , and a rod for the fools back . prov. . . * a quaker . * a quaker . isa. . . perfect pharisee . p. . pag. . pag. . pag. . t. p. l. raymond . pa. . his own book pa. . pa. , . pa. . * sister to ( that seller of irreligious books ) giles galvert . * tim: wedlock sam : carter , john stanger , rob : crab , marth. symonds han : stanger , doroth : erbury among many papers and letters ( to the number of . ) which were found about nailer , and these his disciples , at their first examination , i have inserted only one , which you shall find at the latter end of my book . isa. . . hos. . . mat. : . amos . . cor. . . iudg. , . * bristol . * oh the heighth of horrid blasphemy ! * in broadmeddow at bristol . job . . . nailor's sentence . * a quaker . * the place of his first riding in . * ezek. . . sworn by john iones , ship-wright . sworn by tho. jeffries , and ruth harris . iudg. . . & . . gal. . . psal. . . isa. . . chap. . v. . acts . , , . rev. . . psal. . . ephes. . . iohn . . mica . . . joh. . . deut. . . vers. . iohn . . heb. . . gal. . . . bleeding . luk. . . . bleeding . luk. . . luk . . compared with . mat. . . . . . bleeding . gen. . . . joh. . . luk. . . joh. . . ezek. . . sam. . . mat. . . . bleeding . cant. . . luk. . . mat. . , . bleeding . vers. . . bleeding . joh. . . mat. . . . bleeding . vers. . . bleeding . i suppose the plucking off this roab , fetcht blood also , because we finde , v. . they stript him before they put it on . iohn . . vers. . . bleeding . . bleeding . & bleeding . isa. . . compared with iohn . . isa. . . bleeding . iohn . . vers. . luk. . . psal. . . psal. . , , , . rom. . , . cor. . . zach. . . isa. . . rom. . . tim. . vers. . * silly women are easily led captive by ●ubtle men . jud. . . isa. . , . cor. . . gen. . . gal. . . isa. . . joh. . , . joh. . , . psal. . nehem. . , , , . thes. . . rom. . . luk. . . joh. . * as a godly divine observes . mat. . , rev. . . zech. . . chap. . . ephes. . . cap. beal , and cap. watson . that committee which was appointed for the hearing of nailor . vers. , . tim. . quakers catechism their d query . pag. . pag. . mr. r. h. † not superstitiously , but conveniently placed . * acts . . , , , , compared with . . with mark . . acts . , , , . chap. . . cor. . . . † mr. const. jesup . * den . hollister ( now no small quaker ) told a godly minister of iesus christ , that he had a plot that should shortly cast out jesup and paul both . this was but a little before mr. jesups putting forth . j. b. wid. m. mr. j. p. t. t. f. y. t. a. * a short history of the anabaptists . * on a civil account women have women-guides , upon a ( pretended ) sacred account , women have men dippers . tit. . . , . rev. . . jude . mr. r. t. in mr. ewins his answer to d. hollister , p. . & . mat . . tim. . . rev. . . ephes. , . * see mr. philpots letter hereafter cited . * consider , that seducers have not only a faculty to deceive us , but there is in their flatteries a power to force , prov . . with much fair speech , she caused him to yield , with the flattering of her lips she forced him . * see the parallel of munster and abingdon , by w. h. oxon. . sam. . . his last letter in foxes acts and monuments . pag. . or last edition . vol. . . col. . psa. . . jer. . , . jude . thes. . , . gal. . . psal. . . rev. . . jer. . . j. w. acts . . psal. . . e. e. s. t. j. d. d. w. j. c. * ezek. . . t. e. j. j. psa. . , , . prov. . . mr. j. k. sworn by john taylor . sworn by edw. lockstone thomas harding . deut. . . jer. . , . ezek. . . chap. . ver , . psal. . . psal. . . deut. . . zech. . , , hos. . . king. . . king. . . tim . . job . . mr r. f. mr. bernard . colos. ▪ ● . pet. . . jude . mr william thomos . * this man being a scholar , i heartily desire , that he may not car●y about him his learning and parts , as vriah did davids letters ▪ mr. j. k. psal. . prov . . king. . . hos. . . dorot . erbury . pa. . * a quaker . rev . . isa. . , . gen. . . . cor. . . mat. . heb. . , , . ezek. . . chap. . vers. . amos . . to . thes. . , . rom. . . , , , . jer. . , , chap. . vers. . jer. . . isa. . mat. , . tim. . . pet. . . cor. . . jam. . , . chron. jer. . . chron . . chap. . vers. . chap . vers. . gen ● . . sam. , . phil. . . neh. . . see doctor cawdry , his sermon upon joshua . . pa. . in the reign of henry the third , one pretending himself to be christ , was by the magistrates , then immured between two walls , and there perished , as being thought unworthy to dye by the hands of any man . speed's history . p. , . if a nebuchad . did make such a law , as to tye up the tongues of all in his dominions , not to speak a word against the god of , &c. dan. . . oh how doth it concern christian magistrates much more . this would be a compassionate compulsion . mr. w. t. chron. . . chron. . . chron. ● . ● ezra . , . theses theologicæ: or the theological propositions, which are defended by robert barclay, in his apology for the true christian divinity as the same is held forth and preached, by the people called quakers. first printed about the year, . and since then, reprinted several times, to prevent mistakes concerning that people. barclay, robert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) theses theologicæ: or the theological propositions, which are defended by robert barclay, in his apology for the true christian divinity as the same is held forth and preached, by the people called quakers. first printed about the year, . and since then, reprinted several times, to prevent mistakes concerning that people. barclay, robert, - . p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion theses theologicae : or the theological propositions , which are defended by robert barclay , in his apology for the true christian divinity , as the same is held forth and preached , by the people called quakers . first printed about the year , . and since then , reprinted several times , to prevent mistakes concerning that people . the first proposition . concerning the true foundation of knowledge . seeing the heighth of all happiness is placed in the true knowledge of god , ( this is life eternal , to know thee the only true god , and jesus christ whom thou hast sent ) the true and right understanding of this foundation , and ground of knowledge , is that which is most necessary to be known and believed in the first place . the second proposition . concerning immediate revelation . seeing no man knoweth the father but the son , and he to whom the son revealeth him ; and seeing the revelation of the son is in and by the spirit ; therefore the testimony of the spirit is that alone , by which the true knowledge of god hath been , is , and can be only revealed ; who , as by the moving of his own spirit , converted the chaos of this world into that wonderful order , wherein it was in the beginning , and created man a living soul , to rule and govern it ; so by the revelation of the same spirit , he hath manifested himself all along unto the sons of men , both patriarchs , prophets and apostles ; which revelations of god by the spirit , whether by outward voices and appearances , dreams , or inward objective manifestations in the heart , were of old the formal object of their faith , and remaineth yet so to be ; since the object of the saints faith is the same in all ages , tho' set forth under divers administrations . moreover , these divine inward revelations , which we make absolutely necessary for the building up of true faith , neither do nor can ever contradict the outward testimony of the scriptures , or right and sound reason . yet from hence it will not follow , that these divine revelations are to be subjected to the examination , either of the outward testimony of the scriptures , or of the natural reason of man , as to a more noble or certain rule or touchstone : for this divine revelation , and inward illumination , is that which is evident and clear of it self , forcing by its own evidence and clearness , the well-disposed understanding to assent , irresistably moving the same thereunto , even as the common principles of natural truths move and incline the mind to a natural assent : ( such as are these , that the whole is greater than the part ; that two contradictory sayings cannot be both true , or false ) which is also manifest according to our adversaries principle , who ( supposing the possibility of inward divine revelations ) will nevertheless confess with us , that neither scripture nor sound reason will contradict it : and yet it will not follow , according to them , that the scripture , or sound reason , should be subjected to the examination of the divine revelations in the heart . the third proposition . concerning the scriptures . from these revelations of the spirit of god to the saints , have proceeded the scriptures of truth , which contains , . a faithful historical account of the actings of god's people in divers ages , with many singular and remarkable providences attending them . . a prophetical account of several things , whereof some are already past , and some yet to come . . a full and ample account of all the chief principles of the doctrine of christ , held forth in divers precious declarations , exhortations and sentences , which , by the moving of god's spirit , were at several times , and upon sundry occasions , spoken and written unto some churches and their pastors . nevertheless , because they are only a declaration of the fountain , and not the fountain it self , therefore they are not to be esteemed the principal ground of all truth and knowledge , nor yet the adequate primary rule of faith and manners . nevertheless , as that which giveth a true and faithful testimony of the first foundation , they are and may be esteemed a secondary rule , subordinate to the spirit , from which they have all their excellency and certainty ; for as by the inward testimony of the spirit we do alone truly know them , so they testifie , that the spirit is that guide , by which the saints are led into all truth ; therefore , according to the scriptures , the spirit is the first and principal leader . and seeing we do therefore receive and believe the scriptures , because they proceeded from the spirit , therefore also the spirit is more originally and principally the rule , according to that received maxim in the schools , propter quod unumquodque est tale , illud ipsum est magis tale . englished thus : that for which a thing is such , that thing it self is more such . the fourth proposition . concerning the condition of man in the fall. all adam's posterity ( or mankind ) both jews and gentiles , as to the first adam ( or earthly man ) is fallen , degenerated , and dead ; deprived the sensation of ( or feeling ) of this inward testimony , or seed of god , and is subject unto the power , nature , and seed of the serpent , which he sows in mens hearts , while they abide in this natural and corrupted state : from whence it comes , that not their words and deeds only , but all their imaginations are evil perpetually in the sight of god , as proceeding from this depraved and wicked seed . man therefore , as he is in this state , can know nothing aright ; yea , his thoughts and conceptions concerning god , and things spiritual ( until he be dis-joyned from this evil seed , and united to the divine light ) are unprofitable both to himself and others . hence are rejected the socinian and pelagian errors , in exalting a natural light ; as also the papists , and most of protestants , who affirm , that man without the true grace of god , may be a true minister of the gospel . nevertheless , this seed is not imputed to infants , until by transgression they actually joyn themselves therewith ; for they are by nature the children of wrath , who walk according to the power of the prince of the air. the fifth and sixth propositions . concerning the universal redemption by christ , and also the saving and spiritual light , wherewith every man is enlightned . the fifth proposition . god , out of his infinite love , who delighteth not in the death of a sinner , but that all should live and be saved , hath so loved the world , that he hath given his only son a light , that whosoever believeth in him should be saved ; who enlightneth every man that cometh into the world , and maketh manifest all things that are reprovable , and teacheth all temperance , righteousness , and godliness . and this light enlightneth the hearts of all in a day , in order to salvation , if not resisted . nor is it less universal than the seed of sin , being the purchase of his death , who tasted death for every man. for as in adam all die , even so in christ all shall be made alive . the sixth proposition . according to which principle ( or hypothesis ) all the objections against the universality of christ's death , are easily solved ; neither is it needful to recur to the ministry of angels , and those other miraculous means , which , they say , god makes use of , to manifest the doctrine and history of christ's passion , unto such who ( living in those places of the world , where the outward preaching of the gospel is unknown ) have well improved the first and common grace : for hence it well follows , that as some of the old philosophers might have been saved ; so also may some now ( who by providence are cast into those remote parts of the world , where the knowledge of the history is wanting ) be made partakers of the divine mystery , if they receive and resist not that grace , a manifestation whereof is given to every man to profit withal . this certain doctrine then being received ( to wit ) that there is an evangelical and saving light and grace in all , the universality of the love and mercy of god towards mankind ( both in the death of his beloved son , the lord jesus christ , and in the manifestation of the light in the heart ) is established and confirmed , against all the objections of such as deny it . therefore christ hath tasted death for every man ; not only for all kinds of men , as some vainly talk ; but for every one of all kinds : the benefit of whose offering is not only extended to such , who have the distinct outward knowledge of his death and sufferings , as the same is declared in the scriptures ; but even unto those , who are necessarily excluded from the benefit of this knowledge by some inevitable accident . which knowledge we willingly confess to be very profitable and comfortable , but not absolutely needful unto such , from whom god himself hath with-held it ; yet they may be made partakers of the mystery of his death ( tho' ignorant of the history ) if they suffer his seed and light ( inlightning their hearts ) to take place ( in which light , communion with the father and son is enjoyed ) so as of wicked men to become holy , and lovers of that power , by whose inward and secret touches , they feel themselves turned from the evil to the good , and learn to do to others , as they would be done by ; in which christ himself affirms all to be included . as they have then falsly and erroneously taught , who have denied christ to have died for all men ; so neither have they sufficiently taught the truth , who affirming him to have died for all , have added the absolute necessity of the outward knowledge thereof , in order to the obtaining its saving effect : among whom the remonstrants of holland have been chiefly wanting , and many other assertors of universal redemption ; in that they have not placed the extent of his salvation in that divine and evangelical principle of light and life , wherewith christ hath enlightned every man that comes into the world ; which is excellently and evidently held forth in these scriptures , genesis . . deuteronomy . . john . , , . romans . . titus . . the seventh proposition . concerning justification . as many as resist not this light , but receive the same , in them is produced a holy , pure and spiritual birth , bringing forth holiness , righteousness , purity , and all those other blessed fruits , which are acceptable to god ; by which holy birth ( to wit ) jesus christ formed within us , and working his works in us , as we are sanctified , so are we justified in the sight of god , according to the apostle's words , but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified in the name of the lord jesus , and by the spirit of our god. therefore it is not by our works wrought in our will , nor yet by good works , considered as of themselves ; but by christ , who is both the gift and the giver , and the cause producing the effects in us ; who , as he hath reconciled us while we were enemies , doth also in his wisdom save us , and justifie us after this manner ; as saith the same apostle elsewhere , according to his mercy he hath saved us , by the washing of regeneration , and the renewing of the holy ghost . the eighth proposition . concerning perfection . in whom this holy and pure birth is fully brought forth , the body of death and sin comes to be crucified and removed , and their hearts united and subjected unto the truth , so as not to obey any suggestion or temptation of the evil one , but to be free from actual sinning , and transgressing of the law of god , and in that respect , perfect . yet doth this perfection still admit of a growth ; there remaineth a possibility of sinning , where the mind doth not most diligently and watchfully attend unto the lord. the ninth proposition . concerning perseverance , and the possibility of falling from grace . although this gift , and inward grace of god , be sufficient to work out salvation ; yet in those in whom it is resisted , it both may , and doth become their condemnation . moreover , in whom it hath wrought in part , to purifie and sanctifie them , in order to their further perfection , by disobedience such may fall from it , and turn it to wantonness , making shipwrack of faith , and after having tasted of the heavenly gift , and been made partakers of the holy ghost , again fall away . yet such an increase and stability in the truth , may , in this life , be attained , from which there cannot be a total apostacy . the tenth proposition . concerning the ministry . as by this gift , or light of god , all true knowledge in things spiritual is received and revealed ; so , by the same , as it is manifested and received in the heart , by the strength and power thereof , every true minister of the gospel is ordained , prepared , and supplied in the work of the ministry : and by the leading , moving , and drawing hereof , ought every evangelist and christian pastor to be lead and ordered in his labour and work of the gospel , both as to the place where , as to the persons to whom , and as to the times when he is to minister . moreover , who have this authority , may and ought to preach the gospel , tho' without humane commission or literature ; as on the other hand , who want the authority of this divine gift , however learned or authorized by the commissions of men and churches , are to be esteemed but as deceivers , and not true ministers of the gospel . also , who have received this holy and unspotted gift ; as they have freely received , so are they freely to give , without hire or bargaining , far less to use it as a trade to get money by it : yet if god hath called any from their imployments , or trades , by which they acquire their livelihood , it may be lawful for such ( according to the liberty which they feel given them in the lord ) to receive such temporals ( to wit ) what may be needful to them for meat and cloathing , as are freely given them by those , to whom they have communicated spirituals . the eleventh proposition . concerning worship . all true and acceptable worship to god , is offered in the inward and immediate moving and drawing of his own spirit , which is neither limited to places , times , or persons . for tho' we are to worship him always , in that we are to fear before him ; yet as to the outward signification thereof in prayers , praises , or preachings , we ought not to do it where and when we will , but where and when we are moved thereunto by the secret inspirations of his spirit in our hearts , which god heareth and accepteth of , and is never wanting to move us thereunto , when need is ; of which he himself is the alone proper judge . all other worship then , both praises , prayers and preachings , which man sets about in his own will , and at his own appointment , which he can both begin and end at his pleasure , do or leave und one , as himself sees meet ; whether they be a prescribed form , as a liturgy ; or prayers conceived extemporarily , by the natural strength and faculty of the mind , they are all but superstitions , will-worship , and abominable idolatry in the sight of god ; which are to be denied , rejected , and separated from , in this day of his spiritual arising . however it might have pleased him ( who winked at the times of ignorance , with respect to the simplicity and integrity of some , and of his own innocent seed , which lay as it were buried in the hearts of men , under the mass of superstition ) to blow upon the dead and dry bones , and to raise some breathings , and answer them ; and that until the day should more clearly dawn and break forth . the twelfth proposition . concerning baptism . as there is one lord , and one faith , so there is one baptism ; which is not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience before god , by the resurrection of jesus christ. and this baptism is a pure and spiritual thing ; to wit , the baptism of the spirit and fire , by which we are buried with him , that being washed and purged from our sins , we may walk in newness of life ; of which the baptism of john was a figure , which was commanded for a time , and not to continue for ever . as to the baptism of infants , it is a meer humane tradition , for which neither precept nor practice is to be found in all the scripture . the thirteenth proposition . concerning the communion , or participation of the body and blood of christ. the communion of the body and blood of christ is inward and spiritual , which is the participation of his flesh and blood , by which the inward man is daily nourished in the hearts of those in whom christ dwells : of which things the breaking of bread by christ with his disciples was a figure , which they even used in the church for a time , who had received the substance , for the cause of the weak ; even as abstaining from things strangled , and from blood ; the washing one anothers feet , and the anointing of the sick with oyl ; all which are commanded with no less authority and solemnity than the former : yet seeing they are but the shadows of better things , they cease in such as have obtained the substance . the fourteenth proposition . concerning the power of the civil magistrate , in matters purely religious , and pertaining to the conscience . since god hath assumed to himself the power and dominion of the conscience , who alone can rightly instruct and govern it ; therefore it is not lawful for any whatsoever , by virtue of any authority or principality they bear in the government of this world , to force the consciences of others ; and therefore all killing , banishing , fining , imprisoning , and other such things , which men are afflicted with , for the alone exercise of their conscience , or difference in worship or opinion , proceedeth from the spirit of cain , the murtherer , and is contrary to the truth ; provided always , that no man , under the pretence of conscience , prejudice his neighbour in his life or estate , or do any thing destructive to , or inconsistent with humane society ; in which case the law is for the transgressor , and justice to be administred upon all , without respect of persons . the fifteenth proposition . concerning salutations and recreations , &c. seeing the chief end of all religion , is to redeem man from the spirit and vain conversation of this world , and to lead into inward communion with god , before whom , if we fear always , we are accounted happy ; therefore all the vain customs and habits thereof , both in word and deed , are to be rejected and forsaken by those who come to this fear ; such as the taking off the hat to a man , the bowings and cringings of the body , and such other salutations of that kind , with all the foolish and superstitious formalities attending them ; all which man has invented in his degenerate state , to feed his pride in the vain pomp and glory of this world ; as also the unprofitable plays , frivolous recreations , sportings and gaming 's , which are invented to pass away the precious time , and divert the mind from the witness of god in the heart , and from the living sense of his fear , and from that evangelical spirit , wherewith christians ought to be leavened , and which leads into sobriety , gravity , and godly fear ; in which , as we abide , the blessing of the lord is felt to attend us in those actions , in which we are necessarily engaged , in order to the taking care for the sustenance of the outward man. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e joh. . . notes for div a -e matt. . . notes for div a -e john . . rom. . . notes for div a -e rom. . , . eph. . . notes for div a -e ezek. . . isai. . . joh. . . and . . tit. . . eph. . . heb. . . cor. . . cor. . . heb. . . notes for div a -e titus . . notes for div a -e rom. . ib. . . ib. . , . joh. . . notes for div a -e tim. . heb. . , , . notes for div a -e matt. . notes for div a -e ezek. . mat. . . acts . , , . john . . & . . jude . acts . . notes for div a -e eph. . . pet. . . rom. . . gal. . . col. . . joh. . . cor. . . notes for div a -e cor. . , . joh. . , , . cor. . . acts . . joh. . jam. . . notes for div a -e luk. . , . mat. . , . tit. . . notes for div a -e eph. . . pet. . . joh. . . jer. . . acts . . mat. . . col. . . oh london! with thy magistrates and rulers. what are ye doing, and causing to be done against a harmless and innocent people ... : vvritten in newgate the th of the th month, . / [by] humphrey wooldrich. wollrich, humphry, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing w ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) oh london! with thy magistrates and rulers. what are ye doing, and causing to be done against a harmless and innocent people ... : vvritten in newgate the th of the th month, . / [by] humphrey wooldrich. wollrich, humphry, ?- . sheet ([ ] p.). s.n., [london? : ?] "with authoritie." reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). eng society of friends -- england -- early works to . quakers -- persecutions -- england -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- london -- th century. a r (wing w ). civilwar no oh london! with thy magistrates and rulers. vvhat are ye doing, and causing to be done against a harmless and innocent people, that against wollrich, humphry d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion oh london ! with thy magistrates and rulers . vvhat are ye doing , and causing to be done against a harmless and innocent people , that against you or any government did never plot or act any thing , since the lord by his spirit raised them to be a people ; they have been innocent and clear in all these things , the lord is their witness , which in a late proclamation is charged against them , even against the lords heritage and people called quakers , which you are going about to destroy and waste , that they should not be a people ; and all this is , because they cannot lay their consciences waste , their families must be laid waste ; & they that depart from iniquity , are become a prey in this generation : the lord look on our afflictions , e●en the lord of the whole earth , look down from his holy habitation , on our unjust sufferings ; the lord open your understandings , by which you may see how we are made to suffer without a cause , by being unjustly numbred with transgressors , and ranked with murderers , as if we had a hand in plotting against the king ; the lord knows we are clear and innocent in all these things ; our just principle , the light in our consciences , & the spirit of the lord , which is our guide , leadeth to no such thing as a carnal sword , or kingdom that is of this world , after such a manner to be obtained ; the light in your consciences will clear us , and condemn you for ranking us with fift-monarchy-men and baptists , whose weapons indeed are carnal we know , and cannot deny but weapons of cruelty have been found in their habitations ; but as for us , the god whom we serve , teacheth us no such thing , and he will plead our righteous cause , which is no other , but that his truth may prosper and fill the earth , and that the knowledge thereof may cover the world , as the waters cover the sea . this is our desire , the lord knows , and our work in this world , which he himself hath decreed and cannot be disannulled , he hath purposed it , and will most certainly bring it to pass ; though unjustly in your late decree , we are proclaimed against as plotters , and thereby presented as malefactors to the nations ; and instead of being saved from persecution for our pure conscience , ( as the word of king charles was , we should be , so long as we lived peaceably ) we are now made liable to be a prey and a spoil to the wicked , though we are altogether innocent and clear of any such thing that is unjustly charged against us , who live and meet peaceably in his dominions ; no other thing can be justly proved against us : and further , we are by a late decree bound to a false church and worship , contrary to all good conscience ; and if you do not what is in your power to deliver us , the lord whom we serve , most certainly will ; and though he suffer you to heat the fornace seven times hotter then it is , yet to the false worship of the nation we cannot bow , for conscience-sake , knowing it is better to obey god then man . this i write by the commandment of the lord to you , that you may not provoke the lord to your own destruction , by destroying a people whom he hath blessed , and chosen for his peculiar treasure : suffer not an innocent people to be made a prey of by the wicked ; for all men we honour in the lord , and esteem them highly that are a terror to evil-doers , which is your work , if you leave it not undone ; and be it known unto you , we cannot observe days which the lord did never command as his worship ; neither can we forbear meeting together in his fear and spirit , to worship him , though men command us to the contrary ; for by the lord are we called and gathered to meet in one spirit ; and let the light of christ in you all be judge , whether to obey god or man is better . this is written to thee , o london , london , with thy magistrates and rulers , who are making havock ( like saul ) of the church and lambs of christ , and setting up the false church and worship , and building it upon the ruines of the people whom the lord hath blessed ; hard is it for you to kick against the pricks , the light in your conscience ; for ierusalem will be a burdensome stone to her persecutors , and all that fight against her , shall not prevail , the mouth of the lord hath spoken it : at the commandment of the god of jacob is this written , to be a warning to all you magistrates of london , that you set not your selves against an innocent people , to your own hurt will it be , if you seek to destroy them whom the lord hath determined to establish : this is a testimony of our innocency , ; that you may not be ignorant thereof , and a witness against them and their laws , which causeth the righteous to suffer for righteousness sake : i am a lover of your souls , and this i write in obedience to the lord , who hath made me willing to suffer what he shall suffer you to inflict upon me , because of his testimony which i hold , and the word of his patience which i keep . vvritten in newgate the th . of the ●th . month , . humphrey wooldrich : vvhere i have been a prisoner ten weeks , because i could not put off my hat at the delivering of a few words to richard brown , mayor of london , which is as follows . friend , of the lord god of life and glory am i moved to write to thee a few words concerning those men which by thee are imprisoned , and suffer not as thieves or murderers , or as evil-doers , but for righteousness sake ; do not separate them from their families and honest employments , whereby their wives and mother●●…ss children should be maintained , contrary to all law and justice : but if thou thus go on to make havock of the ●nnocent lambs of christ jesus , this to thee is the word of the lord god of heaven and earth , thou thy self shalt be separated from the lord , and the presence of his glory , for ever and ever . so not in any other thing , but in love to thy soul , and in obedience to the lord , do i write and clear my con●…ience , whether it may be received in love by thee , or not . humphrey woollrich . the life will come over this city . the preface, being a summary account of the divers dispensations of god to men from the beginning of the world to that of our present age, by the ministry and testimony of his faithful servant george fox, as an introduction to the ensuing journal. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the preface, being a summary account of the divers dispensations of god to men from the beginning of the world to that of our present age, by the ministry and testimony of his faithful servant george fox, as an introduction to the ensuing journal. penn, william, - . fox, george, - . [ ] p. printed and sold by t. sowle, at the crooked billet in holly-well-lane, shoreditch, and near the meeting-house in white-hart-court in grace-church-street, [london : ] signed at end: vvilliam penn. caption title. imprint from colophon. signatures: a-m² . reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng fox, george, - -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the preface , being a summary account of the divers dispensations of god to men , from the beginning of the world to that of our present age , by the ministry and testimony of his faithful servant george for , as an introduction to the ensuing journal . divers have been the dispensations of god since the creation of the world unto the sons of men ; but the great end of all of them has been the renown of his own excellent name in the creation and restauration of man : man , the emblem of himself , as a god on earth and the glory of all his works . the world began with innocency : all was then good that the good god had made : and as he blessed the works of his hands , so their natures and harmony magnified him their creator . then the morning stars sang together for joy , and all parts of his works said amen to his law. not a jarr in the whole frame , but man in paradise , the beasts in the field , the fowl in the air , the fish in the sea , the lights in the heavens , the fruits of the earth ; yea the air , the earth , the water and fire worshipped , praised and exalted his power , wisdom and goodness . o holy sabbath , o holy day to the lord ! but this happy state lasted not long : for man , the crown and glory of the whole , being tempted to aspire above his place , unhappily yielded against command and duty , as well as interest and felicity ; and so fell below it , lost the divine image , the wisdom , power and purity he was made in . by which , being no longer fit for paradise , he was expelled that garden of god , his proper dwelling and residence , and was driven out , as a poor vagabond , from the presence of the lord , to wander in the earth , the habitation of beasts . yet god , that made him had pitty on him ; for he seeing he was deceived , and that it was not of malice , or an original presumption in him , but through the subtilty of the serpent , ( that had first fallen from his own state , and by the mediation of the woman , man 's own nature and companion , whom the serpent had first deluded ) in his infinite goodness and wisdom found out a way to repair the breach , recover the loss , and restore fallen man again by a nobler and more excellent adam , promised to be born of a woman ; that as by means of a woman the evil one had prevailed upon man , by a woman also he should come into the world , who would prevail against him and bruise his head , and deliver man from his power : and which , in a signal manner , by the dispensation of the son of god in the flesh , in the fullness of time , was personally and fully accomplished by him , and in him , as man's saviour and redeemer . but his power was not limitted , in the manifestation of it , to that time ; for both before and since his blessed manifestation in the flesh , he has been the light and life , the rock and strength of all that ever feared god : present with them in their temptations , followed them in their travels and afflictions , and supported and carried them through and over the difficulties that have attended them in their earthly pilgrimage . by this abel's heart excelled cains , and seth obtained the preheminence , and enoch walked with god. it was this that strove with the old world , and which they rebelled against , and which sanctified and instructed noah to salvation . but the outward dispensation that followed the benighted state of man , after his fall , especially among the patriarcks , was generally that of angels ; as the scriptures of the old testament do in many places express , as to abraham , jacob , &c. the next was that of the law by moses , which was also delivered by angels , as the apostle tells us . this dispensation was much outward , and suited to a low and servil state ; called therefore that of a school-master , to point out and prepare that people to look and long for the messiah , who would deliver them from the servitude of a ceremonious and imperfect dispensation , by knowing the realities of those misterious representations in themselves . in this time the law was written on stone , the temple built with hands attended with an outward priest-hood and external rites , and ceremonies , that were shadows of the good things that were to come , and were only to serve till the seed came , or the more excellent and general manifestation of christ , to whom was the promise , and to all men only in him , in whom it was yea and amen ; even life from death , immortality and eternal life . this the prophets foresaw , and comforted the believing jews in the certainty of it ; which was the top of the mosaical dispensation , and which ended in john's ministery , the forerunner of the messiah , as john's was finished in him , the fullness of all . and god , that at sundry times and in divers manners had spoken to the fathers by his servants the prophets , spoak then by his son christ jesus , who is heir of all things ; being the gospel-day , which is the dispensation of sonship : bringing in thereby a nearer testament and a better hope ; even the beginning of the glory of the latter days , and of the restitution of all things ; yea , the restoration of the kingdom unto israel . now the spirit , that was more sparingly communicated in former dispensations , began to be poured forth upon all flesh , according to the prophet joel , and the light that shined in darkness , or but dimly before , the most gracious god caused to shine out of darkness , and the day-star began to arise in the hearts of believers , giving unto them the knowledge of god in the face ( or appearance ) of his son christ jesus . now the poor in spirit , the meek , the true mourners , the hungry and thirsty after righteousness , the peace-makers , the pure in heart , the merciful and the persecuted , came more especially in remembrance before the lord , and were sought out and blessed by israel's true shepherd . old jerusalem with her children grew out of date , and the new jerusalem into request , the mother of the sons of the gospel-day . wherefore no more at old jerusalem , nor at the mountain of samaria , will god be worshipped above other places ; for , behold , he is declared and preached a spirit , and he will be known as such , and worshipped in the spirit and in the truth . he will come nearer then of old time , and he will write his law in the heart , and put his fear and spirit in the inward parts , according to his promise . then signs , types and shadows flew away , the day having discovered their insufficiency in not reaching to the inside of the cup , to the cleansing of the conscience ; and all elementary services were expired in and and by him that is the substance of all . and to this great and blessed end of the dispensation of the son of god , did the apostles testifie , whom he had chosen and anointed by his spirit , to turn the jews from their prejudice and superstition , and the gentiles from their vanity and idolatry , to christ's light and spirit that shined in them ; that they might be quickned from the sins and trespasses in which they were dead , to serve the living god in the newness of the spirit of life , and walk as children of the light , and of the day , even the day of holiness : for such put on christ , the light of the world , and make no more provision for the flesh , to fulfil the lusts thereof . so that the light , spirit and grace that comes by christ , and appears in man , was what the apostles ministred from , and turned peoples minds unto , and in which they gathered and built up the churches of christ in their day . for which cause they advised them not to quench the spirit , but wait for the spirit , and speak by the spirit , and pray by the spirit , and walk in the spirit too , as that which approved them the truly begotten children of god ; born , not of flesh and blood , or of the will of man , but of the will of god ; by doing his will , and denying their own ; by drinking of christ's cup , and being baptized with his baptism of self-denial : the way and path that all the heirs of life have trod to blessedness . but alas ! even in the apostles days , ( those bright stars of the first magnitude of the gospel light ) some clouds ( foretelling an eclipse of this primitive glory ) began to appear , and several of them gave early caution of it to the christians of their time ; that even then there was , and yet would be more and more , a falling away from the power of godliness and the purity of that spiritual dispensation , by such as sought to make a fair shew in the flesh , but with whom the offence of the cross ceased : yet with this comfortable conclusion , that they saw beyond it a more glorious time than ever , to the true church . their sight was true , and what they foretold to the churches , gathered by them in the name and power of jesus , came so to pass : for christians degenerated a-pace into outsides , as days and meats , and divers other cerimonies . and which was worse , they fell into strife and contention about them , separating one from another , then envying , and , as they had power , persecuting one another , to the shame and scandal of their common christianity , and grievous stumbling and offence of the heathen , among whom the lord had so long and so marvellously preserved them . and having got at last the worldly power into their hands , by kings and emperors embracing the christian profession , they changed what they could , the kingdom of christ , which is not of this world , into a worldly kingdom ; or at least stiled the worldly kingdom that was in their hands the kingdom of christ , and so they became worldly , and not true christians . then humane inventions and novelties , both in doctrine and worship , crowded fast into the church ; a door being opened thereunto by the grossness and carnality that appeared then among the generality of christians ; who had long since left the guidance of god's meek and heavenly spirit , and given themselves up to superstition , will-worship , and voluntary humility . and as superstition is blind , so it is heady and furious ; for all must stoop to its blind and boundless zeal or perish by it : in the name of the spirit , persecuting the very appearance of the spirit of god in others , and opposing that in them which they resisted in themselves , viz. the light , grace and spirit of the lord jesus christ ; but always under the notion of innovation , heresie , schism , or some such plausible name . though christianity allows of no name or pretence whatever for persecuting of any man for matters of meer religion ; religion being in its very nature , meek , gentle and forbearing ; and consists of faith , hope and charity , which no persecutor can have , whilst he remains a persecutor ; in that a man cannot believe well , or hope well , or have a charitable or tender regard to another , whilst he would violate his mind or persecute his body for matters of faith or worship towards his god. thus the false church sprang up , and mounted the chair . but though she lost her nature , she would keep her good name of the lambs-bride , the true church and mother of the faithful ; constraining all to receive her mark , either in their forehead or righthand , publickly or privately : but indeed and in truth she was mystery babylon , the mother of harlots : mother of those that with all their show and outside of religion , were adulterated and gone from the spirit , nature and life of christ , and grown vain , worldly , ambitious , covetous , cruel , &c. which are the fruits of the flesh and not of the spirit . now it was that the true church fled into the wilderness , that is , from superstition and violence , to a retired , solitary and lonely state ; hidden and as it were out of sight of men , though not out of the world : which shows that her wonted visibility was not essential to the being of a true church in the judgment of the holy ghost ; she being as true a church in the wilderness , though not as visible and lustrious , as when she was in her former splendor of profession . in this state many attempts she made to return , but the waters were yet too high , and her way blocked up , and many of her excellent children in several nations and centuries fell by the cruelty of superstition , because they would not fall from their faithfulness to the truth . the last age did set some steps towards it , both as to doctrine , worship and practice . but practice quickly failed , for wickedness flowed in a little time , as well among the professors of the reformation as those they reformed from ; so that by the fruits of conversation they were not to be distinguished . and the children of the reformers , if not the reformers themselves , betook themselves very early to earthly policy and power to uphold and carry on their reformation that had been begun with spiritual weapons ; which i have often thought , has been one of the greatest reasons the reformation made no better progress , as to the life and soul of religion : for whilst the reformers were lowly and spiritually minded , and trusted in god , and lookt to him , and lived in his fear , and consulted not with flesh and blood , nor sought deliverance in their own way , there were daily added to the church such as , one might reasonably say , should be saved . for they were not so careful to be safe from persecution as to be faithful under it . being more concerned to spread the truth by their faith and patience in tribulation , than to get the worldly power out of their hands that inflicted their sufferings upon them ; and it will be well if the lord suffer them not to fall by the very same way they took to stand . in doctrine they were in some things short , in other things , to avoid one extream they run into another : and for worship , there was for the generality , more of man than god. they owned the spirit , inspiration and revelation indeed , and grounded their seperation and reformation upon the sense and understanding they received from it , in the reading of the scriptures of truth ; and this was their plea , the scripture was the text , the spirit the interpreter , and that to every one for himself . but yet there was too much of humane invention , tradition and art that remained both in praying and preaching , and of worldly authority and worldly greatness in their ministers , especially in this kingdom , sweden , denmark and some parts of germany . god was therefore pleased among us , to shift from vessel to vessel : and the next remove humbled the ministry , so that they were more strict in preaching , devout in praying , and zealous for keeping the lords-day , and catechising of children and servants , and repeating at home in their families what they had heard in publick . but even as these grew into power , they were not only for whipping some out , but others into the temple : and they appeared rigid in their spirits , rather than severe in their lives , and more for a party then for piety : which brought forth another people , that were yet more retired and select . they would not communicate at large , or in common with others ; but formed churches among themselves of such as could give some account of their conversion , at least , of very promising experiences of the work of god's grace upon their hearts , and under mutual agrements and covenants of fellowship they kept together . these people were somewhat of a softer temper , and seemed to recommend religion by the charms of its love , mercy and goodness rather than by the terrours of its judgments and punishment ; by which the former party would have terrified people into religion . they also allowed greater liberty to prophecy than those before them ; for they admitted any member to speak or pray , as well as their pastor ( whom they always chose , and not the civil magistrate ) . if such found any thing pressing upon them to either duty , even without the distinction of clergy or laity ; persons of any trade , be it never so low and mechanical . but alas ! even these people suffered great loss : for tasting of worldly empire , and the favour of princes , and the gain that ensued , they degenerated but too much . for though they had cryed down national churches and ministry and maintenance too , some of them , when it was their own turn to be tryed , fell under the weight of worldly honour and advantage , got into profitable parsonages too much , and outlived and contradicted their own principles : and , which was yet worse , turned some of them absolute persecutors of other men for god's sake , that but so lately came themselves out of the furnace , which drove many a step farther , and that was into the water . another baptism , as believing they were not scripturally baptised ; and hoping to find that presence and power of god in submitting to that ordinance , which they desired and wanted . these people made also profession of neglecting , if not renouncing and censuring , not only the necessity but use of all human learning as to the ministry ; and all other qualifications to it besides the helps and gifts of the spirit of god , and those natural and common to men ; and for a time they seemed like john of old , a burning and a shining light , to other societies . they were very diligent , plain and serious , strong in scripture , and bold in profession , bearing much reproach and contradiction : but that which others fell by , proved their hurt . for worldly power spoiled them too ; who had enough of it to try them what they would do if they had more ; and they rested also too much upon their watry dispensation , instead of passing on more fully to the fire and holy ghost , which was his baptism , who came with a fan in his hand , that he might throughly ( and not in part only ) purge his floor , and take away the dross and the tin of his people and make a man finer than gold. withall , they grew high , rough and self-righteous , opposing further attainment ; too much forgetting the day of their infancy and littleness , which gave them something of a real beauty ; in so much that many left them and all visible churches and societies , and wandred up and down , as sheep without a shepherd , and as doves without their mates ; seeking their beloved but could not find him , as their souls desired to know him ; whom their souls loved above their chiefest joy. these people were called seekers by some , and the family of love by others ; because , as they came to the knowledge of one another , they sometimes met together , not formally to pray or preach , at appointed times or places , in their own wills , as in times past they were accustomed to do ; but waited together in silence , and as any thing rose in any one of their minds that they thought savoured of a divine spring , so they sometimes spoke . but so it was that some of them not keeping in humility and in the fear of god , after the abundance of revelation , were exalted above measure , and for want of staying their minds in an humble dependance upon him that opened their understandings to see great things in his law ; they run out in their own imaginations , and mixing them with those divine openings , brought forth a monstrous birth ; to the scandal of those that feared god , and waited daily in the temple , not made with hands , for the consolation of israel ; the jew inward , and circumcision in spirit . this people obtained the name of ranters from their extravagant discourses and practices . for they interpreted christ's fullfilling of the law for us , to be a discharging of us from any obligation and duty the law required , instead of the condemnation of the law for sins past , upon faith and repentance , and that now it was no sin to do that which before it was a sin to commit ; the slavish fear of the law being taken off by christ , and all things good that man did , if he did but do them with the mind and perswasion that it was so . insomuch that divers fell into gross and enormous practices ; pretending in excuse thereof that they could , without evil , commit the same act which was sin in another to do ; thereby distinguishing between the action and the evil of it , by the direction of the mind and intention in the doing of it . which was to make sin super-abound by the aboundings of grace , and to turn from the grace of god into wantonness , a securer way of sinning than before : as if christ came not to take away sin , but that we might sin more freely at his cost , and with less danger to our selves . i say , this ensnared divers , and brought them to an utter and lamentable loss as to their eternal state ; and they grew very troublesome to the better sort of people , and furnished the looser with an occasion to prophane . it was about that very same time , as you may see in the ensuing annales , that the eternal , wise , and good god was pleased , in his infinite love , to honour and visit this benighted and bewildred nation with his glorious day-spring from on high ; yea with a most sure and certain sound of the word of light and life , through the testimony of a chosen vessel , to an effectual and blessed purpose , can many thousands say , glory be to the name of the lord for ever . for as it reached the conscience and broak the heart , and brought many to a sense and search , so what people had been vainly seeking without , with much pains and cost , they by this ministry found within ; where it was they wanted what they sought for , viz. the right way to peace with god. for they were directed to the light of jesus christ within them , as the seed and leven of the kingdom of god ; near all , because in all , and god's talent to all. a faithful and true witness and just monitor in every bosom . the gift and grace of god to life and salvation that appears to all , though few regard it . this , the traditional christian , conceited of himself , and strong in his own will and righteousness , and overcome with blind zeal and passion , either dispised as a low and common thing , or opposed as a novelty , under many hard names and opprobrious terms ; denying , in his ignorant and angry mind , any fresh manifestation of god's power and spirit in man in these days , though never more needed to make true christians : not unlike those jews of old that rejected the son of god at the very same time that they blindly professed to wait for the messiah to come ; because , alas , he appeared not among them according to their carnal mind and expectation . this brought forth many abusive books , which filled the greater sort with envy , and lesser with rage , and made the way and progress of this blessed testimony straight and narrow indeed to those that received it . however , god owned his own work , and this testimony did effectually reach , gather , comfort and establish the weary and heavy leaden , the hungry and thirsty , the poor and needy , the mournful and sick of many maladys , that had spent all upon phisitians of no value , and waited for relief from heaven ; help only from above : seeing upon a serious tryal of all things , nothing else would do but christ himself , the light of his countenance , a touch of his garment and help from his hand , who cured the poor womans issue , raised the centurions servant , the widows son , the rulers daughter , and peter's mother , and like her , they no sooner felt his power and efficacy upon their souls ; but they gave up to obey him in a testimony to his power , and with resigned wills and faithful hearts , through all mockings , contradictions , beatings , prisons , and many other jeopardies that attended them for his blessed name sake . and truly , they were very many and very great ; so that in all humane probability they must have been swallowed up quick of the proud and bosterous waves that swelled and beat against them ; but that the god of all their tender mercies was with them in his glorious authority , so that the hills often fled and the mountains melted before the power that filled them ; working mightily for them as well as in them , one ever following the other . by which they saw plainly , to their exceeding great confirmation and comfort , that all things were possible with him with whom they had to do . and that the more that which god required seemed to cross man's wisdom , and expose them to man's wrath , the more god appeared to help and carry them through all to his glory : insomuch that if ever any people could say in truth , thou art our sun and our shield , our rock and sanctuary , and by thee we have leaped over a wall , and by thee we have run through a troop , and by thee we have put the armies of the aliens to flight , these people had right to say it . and as god had delivered their souls of the warisom burthens of sin and vanity , and enriched their poverty of spirit , and satisfied their great hungar and thirst after eternal righteousness , and filled them with the good things of his own house , and made them stewards of his manifold gifts ; so they went forth to all quarters of these nations , to declare to the inhabitants thereof , what god had done for them ; what they had found , and where and how they had found it ; viz. the way to peace with god : inviting them to come and see and taste , for themselves , the truth of what they declared unto them . and as their testimony was to the principle of god in man , the precious pearl and leven of the kingdom , as the only blessed means appointed of god to quicken , convince and sanctifie man ; so they opened to them what it was in it self , and what it was given to them for : how they might know it from their own spirit , and that of the subtil appearance of the evil one ; and what it would do for all those whose minds are turned off from the vanity of the world and its lifeless ways and teachers , and ad-hear to this blessed light in themselves , which discovers and condemns sin in all its appearances , and shows how to overcome it , if minded and obeyed in its holy manifestations and convictions : giving power to such to avoid and resist those things that do not please god , and to grow strong in love , faith , and good works : that so man , whom sin hath made as a wilderness , over-run with briers and thorns , might become as the garden of god , cultivated by his divine power , and replenisht with the most virtuous and beautiful plants of god's own right hand planting , to his eternal praise . but these experimental preachers of glad tydings of god's truth and kingdom could not run when they list , or pray or preach when they pleased , but as the christ their redeemer prepared and moved them by his own blessed spirit , for which they waited in their services and meetings , and spoak as that gave them utterance , and which was as those having authority , and not like the dreaming , dry and formal pharisees . and so it plainly appeared to the serious minded , whose spiritual eye the lord jesus had in any measure opened ; so that to one was given the word of exhortation , to another the word of reproof , to another the word of consolation , and all by the same spirit and in the good order thereof , to the convincing and edifying of many . and truly , they waxed strong and bold through faithfulness ; and by the power and spirit of the lord jesus became very fruitful ; thousands , in a short time , being turned to the truth through their testimony in ministry and sufferings , insomuch as in most counties , and many of the considerable towns of england , meetings were settled , and daily there were added such as should be saved . for they were diligent to plant and to water , and the lord blessed their labours with an exceeding great increase ; notwithstanding all the opposition made to their blessed progress , by false rumors , calumnies and bitter persecutions ; not only from the powers of the earth , but from every one that listed to injure and abuse them : so that they seemed indeed to be as poor sheep appointed to the slaughter , and as a people killed all the day long . it were fitter for a volumn than a preface , but so much as to repeat the contents of their cruel sufferings from professors as well as from prophaine , and from magistrates as well as the rabble , that it may well be said of this abused and despised people , they went forth weeping and sowed in tears , bearing testimony to the precious seed , the seed of the kingdom , which stands not in words , the finest the highest that man's wit can use , but in power ; the power of christ jesus , to whom god the father hath given all power in heaven and in earth , that he might rule angels above , and men below ; who impowred them , as their work witnesseth , by the many that were turned through their ministry from darkness to the light , and out of the broad into the narrow way , bringing people to a weighty , serious and god-like conversation ; the practice of that doctrine which they taught . and as without this secret divine power there is no quickning and regenerating of dead souls , so the want of this generating and begetting power and life , is the cause of the little fruit that the many ministrys that have been , and are in the world bring forth . o that both ministers and people were sensible of this ! my soul is often troubled for them , and sorrow and mourning compass me about for their sakes . o! that they were wise , o! that they would consider , and lay to heart the things that truly and substantially make for their lasting peace . two things are to be briefly toucht upon , the doctrine they taught , and the example they lead among all people . i have already toucht upon their fundamental principle , which is as the corner stone of their fabrick : and to speak eminently and properly , their characteristick , or main distinguishing point or principle , viz. the light of christ within , as god's gift for man's salvation . this i say , is as the root of the goodly tree of doctrines that grew and branched out from it , which i shall now mention in their natural and experimental order . first , repentance from dead works to serve the living god. which comprehends three operations . first , a sight of sin. secondly , a sense and godly sorrow for it . thirdly , an amendment for the time to come . this was the repentance they preached and pressed , and a natural result from the principle they turned all people unto . for of light came sight ; and of sight came sense and sorrow ; and of sense and sorrow , came amentment of life : which doctrine of repentance leads to justification ; that is , forgiveness of the sins that are past through christ the alone propitiation and the sanctification or purgation of the soul from the defiling nature and habits of sin present ; which is justification in the compleat sense of that word ; comprehending both justification from the guilt of the sins that are past , as if they had never been commited , through the love and mercy of god in christ jesus ; and the creatures being made inwardly just through the cleansing and sanctifying power and spirit of christ revealed in the soul ; which is commonly called sanctification . from hence sprang a second doctrine they were led to declare , as the mark of the price of the high calling of all true christians , viz. perfection from sin , according to the scriptures of truth , which testifie it to be the end of christ's coming and the nature of his kingdom , and for which his spirit was given . but they never held a perfection in wisdom and glory in this life , or from natural infirmities or death , as some have with a weak or ill mind , imagined and insinuated against them . this they called a redeemed state , regeneration , or the new-birth : teaching every where , according to their foundation , that without this work were known , there was no inheriting the kingdom of god. third , to an acknowledgment of eternal rewards and punishment , as they have good reason ; for else of all people , certainly they must be the most miserable : who for about forty years , have been exceeding great sufferers for their profession , and in some cases , treated worse then the worst of men ; yea , as the refuge and off-scowering of all things . this was the purport of their doctrine and ministry ; which , for the most part , is what other professors of christianity pretend to hold in words and forms , but not in the power of godliness ; that has been long lost by mens departing from that principle and seed of life , that is in man and which man has not regarded , but lost the sense of ; and in and by which he can only be quickned in his mind to serve the living god in newness of life . for as the life of religion was lost , and the generality lived and worshipped god after their own wills , and not after the will of god , nor the mind of christ , which stood in the works and fruits of the holy spirit ; so that which they prest , was not notion but experience , no formality but godliness ; as being sensible in themselves , through the work of god's righteous judgments , that without holiness no man should ever see the lord with comfort . besides these doctrines , and out of them , as the larger branches , there sprang forth several particular doctrines , that did exemplifie and further explain the truth and efficacy of the general doctrine before observed , in their lives and examples . as , i. communion and loving one another . this is a noted mark in the mouth of all sorts of people concerning them . they will meet , they will help and stick one to another . whence it is common to hear some say , look how the quakers love and take care of one another . others less moderate will say , the quakers love none but themselves , and if loving one another and having an intimate communion in religion , and constant care to meet to worship god and help one another , be any mark of primitive christianity , they had it , blessed be the lord , in an ample manner . ii. to love enemies : this they both taught and practised : for they did not only refuse to be revenged for injuries done them , and condemned it as of an unchristian spirit , but they did freely forgive , yea , help and relieve those that had been cruel to them , when it was in their power to have been even with them ; of which many and singular instances might be given : endeavouring , through patience , to overcome all injustice and oppression , and preaching this doctrine as christian for others to follow . iii. the sufficiency of truth speaking , according to christ's own form of words , of yea , yea , and nay , nay , among christians without swearing , both from christ's express prohibition to swear at all . mat. . and for that they being under the tye and bond of truth in themselves , there was both no necessity for an oath , and it would be a reproach to their christian veracity to assure their truth by such an extraordinary way of speaking : but offering at the same time , to be punnisht to the full , for false speaking , as others for perjury , if ever guilty of it ; and hereby they exclude , with all true , all false and prophane swearing ; for which the land did and doth mourn , and the great god was and is not a little offended with it . iv. not fighting but suffering , is another testimony peculiar to this people : they affirm that christianity teacheth people to beat their swords into plough shears , and their spears into pruning hooks , and to learn war no more , that so the wolf may lie down with the lamb , and the lyon with the calf , and nothing that destroys be entertained in the hearts of people ; exhorting them to employ their zeal against sin , and turn their anger against satan , and no longer war one against another ; because , all wars and fightings come of mens own hearts lusts , according to the apostle james , and not of the meek spirit of christ jesus who is captain of another warfare , and which is carried on with other weapons . thus , as truth speaking succeeded swearing , so faith and truth succeeded fighting , in the doctrine and practise of this people . nor ought they for this to be obnoxious to civil government , since if they cannot fight for it , neither can they fight against it ; which is no mean security to the state : nor is it reasonable that people should be blamed for not doing more for others than they can do for themselves . and christianity set aside , if the costs and fruits of war were well considered , peace , with its inconveniencies , is generally preferable . but though they were not for fighting , they were for submitting to government ; and that , not only for fear , but for conscience sake , where government doth not interfere with conscience : believing it to be an ordinance of god , and where it is justly administred , a great benefit to minkind : tho' it has been their lot , through blind zeal in some , and interest in others , to have felt the strokes of it with greater weight and rigour than any other perswasion in this age ; whilst they , of all others ( religion set aside ) have given the civil magistrate the least occasion of trouble in the discharge of his office. v. another part of the character of this people is , they refuse to pay tythes , or maintenance to a national ministry , and that for two reasons ; the one is , that they believe all compelled maintenance , even to gospel ministers , to be unlawful , because expresly contrary to christ's command , who said , freely you have received , freely give : at least , that the maintenance of gospel ministers should be free and not forced . the other reason of their refusal is , because those ministers are not gospel ones , in that the holy ghost is not their foundation , but humane arts and parts : so that it is not matter of humor or sullenness , but pure conscience towards god , that they cannot help to support national ministers where they dwell , which are but too much and too visibly become ways of worldly advantage and preferment . vi. not to respect persons , was another of their doctrines and practices , for which they were often buffeted and abused . they affirmed it to be sinful to give flattering titles , or to use vain gestures and complements of respect ; tho' to virtue and authority they ever made a difference , but after their plain and homely manner , yet sincere and substantial way ; well remembering the example of mordecai and elihu , but more especially the command of their lord and master jesus christ , who forbad his followers to call men rabby , which implies lord and master , also the fashionable greetings and salutations of those times ; that so self-love and honour , to which the proud mind of man is incident , in his fallen estate , might not be indulged but rebuked . they also used the plain language of thou and thee to a single person , whatever was his degree among men. and indeed the wisdom of god was much seen , in bringing forth this people in so plain an appearance ; for it was a close and distinguishing test upon the spirit of those they came among ; shewing their insides and what predominated , notwithstanding their high and great profession of religion . this , among the rest , sounded so harsh to many of them , and they took it so ill , that they would say , thou me , thou my dog : if thou thouest me , i 'le thou thy teeth down thy throat , forgetting the language they use to god in their own prayers , and the common stile of the scriptures , and that it is an absolute and essential propriety of speech : and what good had their religion done them , who were so sensibly toucht with indignation for the use of this plain , honest , and true speech ? vi. they recommended silence by their example , having very few words upon all occasions : they were at a word in dealing ; nor could their customers many words tempt them from it ; having more regard for truth than custom , to example then gain , they sought solitude ; but when in company , they would neither use nor willingly hear unnecessary as well as unlawful discourses ; whereby they preserved their minds pure and undisturbed from unprofitable thoughts and diversions : nor could they humour the custom of good night , good morrow , god speed ; for they knew the night was good , and the day was good , without wishing of either ; and that in the other expression , the holy name of god was too lightly and unthinkingly used , and therefore taken in vain . besides , they were words and wishes of course , and are usually as little meant , as are love and service in the custom of cap and knee ; and superfluity in those as well as in other things was burthensom to them ; and therefore they did not only decline to use them , but found themselves often prest to reprove the practice . for the same reason they forbore drinking to people , or pledging of them , as the manner of the world is : a practice that is not only unnecessary , but they thought evil in the tendencies of it ; being a provocation to drinking more than did people good , as well as that it was in it self vain and heathenish . vii . their way of marriage is peculiar to them ; and is a distinguishing practice from all other societies professing christianity . they say that marriage is an ordinance of god , and that god only can rightly join man and woman in marriage . therefore they use neither priest nor magistrate , but the man and woman concern'd take each other as husband and wife in the presence of divers credible witnesses , promising unto each other with god's assistance , to be loving and faithful in that relation till death shall separate them . but , antecedent to all this , they first present themselves to the monthly meeting for the affairs of the church , where they reside ; there declaring their intentions to take one another as man and wife , if the said meeting have nothing material to object against it . they are constantly askt the necessary questions , as in case of parents , or guardians if they have acquainted them with their intention , and have their consent , &c. the method of the meeting is to take a minute thereof , and to appoint proper persons to enquire of their conversation and clearness from all others , and whether they have discharged their duty to their parents or guardians ; and make report thereof the next monthly meeting ; where the same parties are desired to give their attendance . in case it appears they proceeded orderly , the meeting passes their proposal , and so records it in their meeting book ; and in case the woman be a widow and hath children , due care is there taken , that provision also be made by her for the orphans before the said marriage ; advising the parties concerned to appoint a convenient time and place , and to give fitting notice to their relations , and such friends and neighbours , as they desire should be the witnesses of their marriage : where they take one another by the hand , and by name promising reciprocally after the manner before expressed . of all which proceedings , a narative , in a way of certificate , is made , to which the said parties first set their hands , thereby making it their act and deed ; and then divers of the relations , spectators and auditors set their names as witnesses of what they said and signed . which certificate , is afterward registred in the record belonging to the meeting , where the marriage is solemnized . which regular method has been , as it deserves , adjudged in courts of law a good marriage , where it has been disputed and contested , for want of the accustomed formality of priest and ring , &c. which ceremonies they have refused , not out of humour , but conscience reasonably grounded , in as much as no scripture example tells us , that the priest had any other part of old time , than that of a witness among the rest , before whom the jews used to take one another : and therefore this people look upon it as an imposion , to advance the power and profits of the clergy . and for the use of the ring , it is enough to say that it was an heathen and vain custom . and never in practice among the people of god , jews or primitive christans . the words of the usual form , as with my body i thee worship , &c. are hardly defensible : in short , they are more careful , exact and regular than any form now used , and it is free of the inconveniencies other methods are attended with . their care and checks being so many , and such , as no clandestine marriages can be perform'd among them . viii . it may not be unfit to say something here of their births and burials , which make up so much of the pomp and solemnity of too many called christians . for births , the parents name their own children , which is usually some days after they are born , in the presence of the midwife ( if she can be there ) and those that were at the birth , &c. who afterward sign a certificate , for that purpose prepared , of the birth and name of the child , or children , which is recorded in a proper book , in the monthly meeting , to which the parents belong ; avoiding the accustomed cerimonies and feastivals . ix . their burials are performed with the same simplicity . if the corps of the deceased be near any publick meeting place , it is usually carried thither , for the more convenient reception of those that accompany it to the ground they bury in , and it so falls out sometimes , that while the meeting is gathering for the burial , some or other have a word of exhortation , for the sake of the people there met together : after which , the body is borne away by the young men , or those that are of their neighbourhood , or that were most of the intimacy of the deceased party : the corps being in a plain coffin , without any covering or furniture upon it . at the ground , they pause some time before they put the body into its grave , that if any one there should have any thing upon them to exhort the people , they may not be dissappointed , and that the relations may the more retiredly and solemnly take their last leave of the corps of their departed kindred , and the spectators have a sense of mortality , by the occasion then given them to reflect upon their own latter end. otherways , they have no set rites or ceremonies on those occasions ; neither do the kindred of the deceased ever wear mourning ; they looking upon it as a wordly ceremony and piece of pomp , and that what mourning is fit for a christian to have at the departure of a beloved relation or friend , should be worn in the mind which is only sensible of the loss , and the love they had to them , and remembrance of them , to be outwardly exprest by a respect to their advice , and care of those they have left behind them , and their love of that they loved . which conduct of theirs , though unmodish or unfashionable , leaves nothing of the substance of things neglected or undone ; and as they aim at no more , so that simplicity of life is what they observe with great satisfaction , though it sometimes happens not to be without the mockeries of the vain world they live in . these things gave them a rough and disagreeable appearance with the generality ; who thought them turners of the world upside down , as indeed , in some sense they were ; but in no other than that wherein paul was so charged , viz. to bring things back into their primitive and right order again . for these and such like practices of theirs were not the result of humour , as some have fancied , but a fruit of inward sense , which god , through his fear , had begotten in them . they did not consider how to contradict the world , or distinguish themselves ; being none of their business , as it was not their interest , no , it was not the result of consultation , or a framed design to declare or recommend schism or novelty . but god having given them a sight of themselves , they saw the whole world in the same glass of truth ; and sensibly discerned the affections and passions of men , and the rise and tendency of things . what gratified the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye and the pride of life which are not of the father , but of the world ; and from thence sprang in that night of darkness and apostacy , which hath been over people , through their degeneration from the light and spirit of god , these and many other vain customs ; which are seen by the heavenly day of christ which dawns in the soul , to be , either wrong in their original , or , by time and abuse , hurtful in their practice . and though these things seemed trivial to some , and rendered this people stingy and conceited in such persons opinions ; there was and is more in them than they were aware of . it was not very easie to our primitive friends , to make themselves sights and spectacles , and the scorn and derision of the world ; which they easily foresaw must be the consequence of so unfashionable a conversation in it . but herein was the wisdom of god seen in the foolishness of these things ; first , that they discovered the satisfaction and concern that people had in and for the fashions of this world , notwithstanding their pretences to another ; in that any disappointment about them came so very near them ; that the greatest honesty , virtue , wisdom and ability , were unwelcom without them . secondly , it seasonably and profitably divided conversation ; for making their society uneasie to their relations and acquaintance , it gave them the opportunity of more retirement and solitude , wherein they met with better company , even the lord , god their redeemer , and grew strong in his love , power and wisdom , and were thereby better qualified for his service ; and the success abundantly show'd it : blessed be the name of the lord. and though they were not great and learned in the esteem of this world ( for then they had not wanted followers upon their own credit and authority ) yet they were generally of the most sober of the several perswasions they were in , and of the most repute for religion ; and many of them of good capacity , substance and account among men. and also some among them neither wanted for parts , learning nor estate ; though then , as of old , not many wife , nor noble , &c. were called , or at least received the heavenly call ; because of the cross that attended the profession of it in sincerity : but neither do parts or learning make men the better christians , though the better orators and disputants ; and it is the ignorance of people about the divine gift that causes that vulgar and mischievous mistake . theory and practice , expression and enjoyment ; words , and life ; are two things . oh! 't is the penitent , the reformed , the lowly , the watchful , the self-denying and holy soul that is the christian ; and that frame is the fruit and work of the spirit , which is the life of jesus ; whose life , though hid in god the father , is shed abroad in the hearts of them that truly believe . oh! that people did but know this to cleanse them , to circumcise them , to quicken them , and to make them new creatures indeed ; re-created or regenerated after christ jesus unto good works . that they might live to god and not to themselves ; and offer up living prayers and living praises , to the living god , through his own living spirit , in which he is only to be worshipped in this gospel day . oh! that they that read me could but feel me ; for my heart is affected with this merciful visitation of the father of lights and spirits , to this poor nation , and the whole world through the same testimony . why should the inhabitants thereof reject it ? why should they loose the blessed benefit of it ? why should they not turn to the lord with all their hearts , and say from the heart , speak lord , for now thy poor servants hear . oh! that thy will may be done , thy great , thy good and holy will in earth as it is in heaven : do it in us , do it upon us , do what thou wilt with us , for we are thine and desire to glorifie thee our creator , both for that , and because thou art our redeemer ; for thou art redeeming us from the earth ; from the vanities and pollations of it , to be a peculiar people unto thee . oh! this were a brave day for england , if so she could say in truth . but alas , the case is otherwise , for which some of thine inhabitants , o land of my nativity ! have mourned over thee with bitter wailing and lamentation . their heads have been indeed as waters , and their eyes as fountains of tears , because of thy transgression and stiffneckedness ; because thou wilt not hear , and fear and return to the rock , even thy rock , o england ! from whence thou wert hewen . but be thou warned , o land of great profession , to receive him into thy heart ; behold at that door it is , he hath stood so long knocking , but thou wilt yet have none of him . oh! be thou awakned , least jerusalem's judgments do swiftly overtake thee , because of jerusalems sins that abound in thee . for she abounded in formality , but made void the weighty things of god's law as thou daily doest . she withstood the son of god in the flesh , and thou resisteth the son of god in the spirit . he would have gathered her as an hen gathereth her chickens under her wings , and she would not ; so would he have gathered thee out of thy life-less profession , and have brought thee to inherit substance , to have known his power and kingdom , for which he often knockt within , by his grace and spirit , and without by his servants and witnesses ; but thou wouldest not be gathered : but on the contrary , as jerusalem of old persecuted the manifestation of the son of god in the flesh , and crucified him and whipt and imprisoned his servants ; so hast thou , o land , crucified to thy self afresh the lord of life and glory , and done dispite to his spirit of grace ; slighting the fatherly visitation , and persecuting the blessed dispensers of it by thy laws and magistrates ; though they have early and late pleaded with thee in the power and spirit of the lord ; in love and meekness , that thou mightest know the lord and serve him , and become the glory of all lands . but thou hast evilly entreated and requited them . thou hast set at naught all their counsel , and would have none of their reproof , as thou shouldest have done . their appearance was too straight , and their qualifications were to mean for thee to receive them ; who like the jews of old , that cryed , is not this the carpenters son , and are not his brethren among us ; which of the scribes , of the learned ( the orthodox ) believe in him ? prophesying their fall in a year or two , and making and executing of severe laws to bring it to pass ; by endeavouring to terrifie them out of their holy way , or distroying them for abiding faithful to it . but thou hast seen how many governments that rise against them , and determined their downfal , have been overturned and extinguished , and that they are still preserved , and become a great and a considerable people , among the middle sort of thy numerous inhabitants . and notwithstanding the many difficulties without and within , which they have laboured under , since the lord god eternal first gathered them , they are an encreasing people , the lord still adding unto them , in divers parts , such as shall be saved , if they persevere to the end. and to thee ; were they and are they lifted up as a standard , and as a city set upon a hill , and to the nations round about thee , that in their light , thou may'st come to see light , even in christ jesus , the light of the world ; and therefore thy light , and life too , if thou wouldst but turn from thy many evil ways , and receive and obey it . for in the light of the lamb , must the nations of them that are saved walk , as the scriptures testify . remember , o nation of great profession ! how the lord has waited upon thee since the days of reformation , and the many mercies and judgments with which he has pleaded with thee ; and awake and arise out of thy deep sleep , and yet hear ( his word in thy heart ) that thou may'st live . let not this thy day of visitation pass over thy head , nor neglect thou so great salvation as is this which is come to thy house , oh england ! for why should'st thou die , oh land that god desires to bless ? be assured it is he that has been in the mid'st of this people , in the mid'st of thee ; and no delusion , as thy mistaken teachers have made thee believe . and this thou shalt find by their marks and fruits , if thou wilt consider them in the spirit of moderation . for , i. they were changed men themselves before they went about to change others . their hearts were rent as well as their garments ; and they knew the power and work of god upon them . and this was seen by the great alteration it made , and their stricter course of life , and more godly conversation , that immediately followed upon it . ii. they went not forth or preached in their own time or will , but in the will of god , and spoke not their own studdied matter , but as they were opened and moved of his spirit , with which they were well acquainted in their own conversion ; which cannot be exprest to carnal men so as to give them any intelligible account ; for to such it is as christ said , like the blowing of the wind , which no man knows whence it cometh , or whether it goeth : yet this proof and seal went along with their ministry , that many were turned from their life-less professions , and the evil of their ways , to the knowledge of god , and an holy life , as thousands can witness . and as they freely received what they had to say from the lord , so they freely administred it to others . iii. the bent and stress of their ministry was conversion to god , regeneration and holiness ; not schemes of doctrines and verbal creeds , or new forms of worship ; but a leaving off in religion the superfluous , and reducing the ceremonious and formal part , and pressing earnestly the substantial , the necessary and proffitable part ; as all upon a serious reflection must and do accknowledge . iv. they directed people to a principle , by which all that they asserted , preached and exhorted others to , might be wrought in them and known , through experience , to them to be true ; which is a high and distinguishing mark of the truth of their ministry ; both that they knew what they said , and were not afraid of coming to the test . for as they were bold from certainty , so they required conformity upon no humane authority , but upon conviction , and the conviction of this principle , which they asserted was in them that they preached unto , and unto that directed them , that they might examine and prove the reaality of those things which they had affirmed of it , and its manifestation and work in man. and this is more than the many ministries in the world pretend to . they declare of religion , say many things true ; in words of god , christ , and the spirit ; of holiness and heaven ; that all men should repent and mend their lives , or they will go to hell , &c. but which of them all pretend to speak of their own knowledge and experience ? or ever directed men to a divine principle , or agent , placed of god in man , to help him ; and how to know it , and wait to feel its power to work that good and acceptable will of god in them . some of them indeed have spoke of the spirit , and the operations of it to sanctification , and performance of worship to god ; but where and how to find it and wait in it to perform , was yet as a mistery reserved for this further degree of reformation . so that this people did not only in words , more than equally press repentance , conversion and holiness , but did it knowingly and experimentally ; and directed those to whom they preach'd , to a sufficient principle , and told them where it is , and by what tokens they might know it , and which way they might experience the power and efficacy of it to their soul's happiness . which is more then theory and speculations , upon which most other ministries depend ; for here is certainly , a bottom upon which man may boldly appear before god in the great day of account . v. they reached to the inward state and condition of people , which is an evidence of the virtue of their principle , and of their ministring from it , and not their own imaginations , glosses or comments upon scripture . for nothing reaches the heart , but what is from the heart , or pierces the conscience , but what comes from a living conscience . insomuch as it hath often happened , where people have under secrecy revealed their state or condition to some choice friends , for advice or ease , they have been so particularly directed in the ministry of this people , that they have challenged their friends with discovering their secrets , and telling the preachers their cases . yea , the very thoughts and purposes of the hearts of many have been so plainly detected ; that they have ( like nathaniel ) cryed out of this inward appearance of christ , thou art the son of god , thou art the king of israel . and those that have embraced this divine principle , have found this mark of its truth and divinity ( that the woman of samaria did of christ when in the flesh , to be the messiah , ) viz. it had told them all that ever they did ; showed them their insides , the most inward secrets of their hearts , and laid judgment to the line , and righteousness to the plummet ; of which thousands can , at this day give in their witness . so that nothing has been affirmed by this people , of the power and virtue of this heavenly principle , that such as have turned to it have not found true , and more ; and that one half had not been told to them of what they have seen of the power , purity , wisdom , mercy and goodness of god herein . vi. the accomplishments with which this principle fitted , even some of the meanest of this people , for their work and service ; furnishing some of them with an extraordinary understanding in divine things , and an admirable fluency and taking way of expression , which gave occasion to some to wonder , saying of them , as of their master , is not this such a mechanick's son , how came he by this learning ? as from thence others took occasion to suspect and insinuate they were jesuites in disguise ; who have had the reputation of learned men for an age past ; though there was not the least ground of truth for any such reflection . vii . that they rise low , and dispised and hated , as the primitive christians did , and not by the help of worldly wisdom or power , as former reformations , in part did : but in all things it may be said , this people were brought forth in the cross , in a contradiction to the ways , worship , fashion and customs of this world ; yea , against wind and tide , that so no flesh might glory before god. they could have no design to themselves in this work , thus to expose themselves to scorn and abuse ; to spend and be spent : leaving wife and children , house and land , and all that can be accounted dear to men , with their lives in their hands , being daily in jeopardy , to declare this primitive message , jo. . . revived in their spirits , by the good spirit and power of god. viz. that god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; and that he has sent his son a light into the world to enlighten all men in order to salvation ; and that they that say they have fellowship with god and are his children and people , and yet walk in darkness , viz. in disobedience to the light in their consciences , and after the vanity of this world , they lie and do not the truth . but that all such as love the light and bring their deeds to it , and walk in the light , as god is light , the blood of jesus christ his son should cleanse them from all sin. viii . their known great constancy and patience in suffering for their testimony , in all the branches of it , and that , sometimes unto death , by beatings , bruisings , long and crowded imprisonments , and noisom dungeons . four of them in new england dying by the hands of the executioner , purely for preaching amongst that people ; besides banishments and excessive plunders and sequestrations of their goods and estates , almost in all parts ; not easily to be expressed , and less to be endured , but by those that have the support of a good and glorious cause ; refusing deliverance by any indirect ways or means , as often as it was offered to them . ix . that they did not only , not show any disposition to revenge , when it was at any time in their power ; but forgave their cruel enemies ; shewing mercy to those that had none for them . x. their plainness with those in authority : not unlike the antient prophets , not fearing to tell them to their faces of their private and publick sins , and their prophecies to them of their afflictions and downfall , when in the top of their glory ; also of some national judgments , as of the plague , and fire of london , in express terms , and likewise particular ones to divers persecutions , which accordingly overtook them ; and which were very remarkable in the places where they dwelt , and in time they may be made publick for the glory of god. thus reader , thou seest this people in their rise , principles , ministry and progress , both their general and particular testimony , by which thou maist be informed how and upon what foot they sprung and became so considerable a people . it remains next that i shew also their care , conduct and discipline , as a christian and reformed society , that they might be found living up to their own principles and profession . and this , the rather , because they have hardly suffered more in their character from the unjust charge of error , than by the false imputation of disorder : which calumny indeed has not failed to follow all the true steps that were ever made to reformation , and under which reproach none suffered more than the primitive christians themselves , that were the honour of christianity , and the great lights and examples of their own and succeeding ages . this people encreasing daily both in town and country , an holy care fell upon some of the elders among them , for the benefit and service of the church . and the first business in their view , after the example of the primitive saints , was the exercise of charity , to supply the necessities of the poor , and answer the like occasions : wherefore collections were early and liberally made for that , and divers other services in the church , and intrusted with faithful men , fearing god , and of good report , who were not weary in well-doing ; adding often of their own , in large proportions , which they never brought to account , or desired should be known , much less restored to them , that none might want , nor any service be retarded or disappointed . they were also very careful , that every one that belonged to them , answered their profession in their behaviour among men , upon all occasions ; that they lived peaceably , and were in all things good examples . they found themselves engaged to record their sufferings and services ; and in case of marriage , which they could not perform in the usual methods of the nation , but among themselves ; they took care thal all things were clear between the parties and all others , and it was then rare that any one entertain'd such inclination to a person on that account , till he or she had communicated it secretly to some very weighty and eminent friends among them , that they might have a sense of the matter ; looking to the council and unity of their brethren , as of great moment to them . but because the charge of the poor , the number of orphans , marriages , sufferings and other matters multiplied , and that it was good that the churches were in some way and method , of proceeding in such affairs among them , to the end they might the better correspond upon occasion , where a member of one meeting , might have to do with one of another : it pleased the lord in his wisdom and goodness , to open the understanding of the first instrument of this dispensation of life , about a good and orderly way of proceeding ; and he felt an holy concern to visit the churches in person throughout this nation , to begin and establish it among them ; and by his epistles the like was done in other nations and provinces abroad ; which he also afterwards visited , and helped in that service , as shall be observed when i come to speak of him . now the care , conduct and discipline , i have been speaking of , and which is now practised among this people , is as followeth . iii. this godly elder , in every county where he travelled , exhorted them , that some out of every meeting of worship , should meet together once in the month , to confer about the wants and occasions of the church . and as the case required , so those monthly meetings were fewer or more in number in every respective county ; four or six meetings of worship , usually making one monthly meeting of business . and accordingly the brethren met him from place to place , and began the said meetings , viz. for the poor , orphans orderly walking , integrity to their profession , births , marriages , burials , sufferings &c. and that these monthly meetings should , in each county make up one quarterly meeting , where the most zealous and eminent friends of the county should assemble to communicate , advise and help one another , especially when any business seemed difficult , or a monthly meeting was tender of determining a matter . also these quarterly meetings should digest the reports of the monthly meetings , and prepare one for the county , against the yearly meeting ; in which the quarterly meetings resolve , which is held yearly in london ; where the churches in this nation , and other nations , and provinces meet , by chosen members of their respective counties , both mutually to communicate their church affairs , and to advise and be advised in any depending case to edification . also to provide a requisite stock , for the discharge of general expences for general services in the church , not needful to be here particularized . at these meetings any of the members of the churches may come if they please , and speak their minds freely , in the fear of god , to any matter ; but the mind of each meeting therein represented is chiefly understood , as to perticuler cases , in the sense delivered by the persons deputed or chosen for that service . during their yearly meeting , to which their other meetings referr in their order and resolve themselves ; care is taken by a select number , for that service chosen by the general assembly , to draw up the minutes of the said meeting , upon the several matters that have been under consideration therein , to the end that the respective quarterly and monthly meetings may be informed of all proceedings , together with a general exhortation to holiness , unity and charity : of all which proceedings in yearly , quarterly and monthly meetings , due record is kept by some one appointed for that service , or that hath voluntarily undertaken it . these meetings are opened , and usually concluded in their solemn waiting upon god , who is sometimes graciously pleased to answer them with as signal evidences of his love and presence , as in any other their meetings of worship . it is further to be noted , that in these solemn assemblies , for the church's service , there is no one presides among them after the manner of the assemblies of other people ; christ only being their president , as he is pleased to appear in life and wisdom in any one or more of them , to whom , whatever be their capacity or degree , the rest adhere with a firm unity , not of authority but conviction , which is the divine authority and way of christ's power and spirit in his people : making good his blessed promise , that he would be in the midst of his , where and whenever they were met together in his name , even to the end of the world. so be it . now it may be expected , i should here set down what sort of authority is exercised by this people , upon such members of their society , as correspond not in their lives with their profession , and that are refractory to this good and wholesom order settled among them ; and the rather because they have not wanted their reproach and suffering from some tongues , upon this occasion in a plentiful manner . the power they exercise is such as christ has given to his own people , to the end of the world , in the persons of his disciples , viz. to oversee , exhort , reprove , and after long suffering and waiting upon the disobedient and refractory , to disown them , as any more of their communion , or that they will any longer stand charged in the sight and judgment of god or men , with their conversation or behaviour as one of them , untill they repent . the subject matter about which this authority , in any of the foregoing branches of it , is exercised ; is first , in relation to common and general practice , and secondly , about those things that more strictly referr to their own character and profession , and distinguish them from all other professors of christianity ; avoiding two extreams upon which many split , viz. persecution and libertinism . a coercive power to whip people into the temple , that such as will not conform , though against faith and conscience , shall be punisht in their persons or estates ; or leaving all loose and at large , as to practice , unaccountable to all but god and the magistrate . to which hurtful extream , nothing has more contributed than the abuse of church power , by such as suffer their passions and private interests to prevail with them to carry it to outward force and corporal punishment . a practice they have been taught to dislike , by their extream sufferings , as well as their known principle for an universal liberty of conscience . on the other hand , they equally dislike an independency in society . an unaccountableness in practice and conversation to the terms of their own communion , and to those that are the members of it . they distinguish between imposing any practice that immediately regards faith or worship , ( which is never to be done nor suffered or submitted unto ) and requiring christian compliance with those methods that only respect church business in its more civil part and concern , and that regard the discreet and orderly maintenance of the character of the society as a sober and religious community . in short , what is for the promotion of holiness and charity , that men may practice what they profess , live up to their own principles , and not be at liberty to give the lie to their own profession , without rebuke . they compell none to them , but oblige those that are of them to walk suitably , or they are denyed by them : that is all the mark they set upon them , and the power they exercise , or judge a christian society , can exercise upon those that are the members of it . the way of their proceedings against such as have lapst or transgrest , is this . he is visited by some of them , and the matter of fact laid home to him , be it any evil practice against known and general virtue , or any branch of their particular testimony , which he , in common , professeth with them . they labour with him in much love and zeal for the good of his soul , the honour of god , and reputation of their profession , to own his fault and condemn it , in as ample a manner as the evil or scandal was given by him ; which for the most part , is performed by some written testimony under the partys hand ; and if it so happen that the party prove refractory , and is not willing to clear the truth they profess , from the reproach of his or her evil doing or unfaithfulness , they , after repeated entreaties and due waiting for a token of repentance , give forth a paper to disown such a fact , and the party offending ; recording the same as a testimony of their care for the honour of the truth they profess . and if he or she shall clear their profession and themselves , by sincere acknowledgment of their fault , and godly sorrow for so doing , they are received and looked upon again as members of their communion . for as god , so his true people upbraid no man after repentance . this is the account i had to give of the people of god called quakers , as to their rise , appearance , principles and practices , in this age of the world , both with respect to their faith and worship , discipline and conversation . and i judge it very proper in this place , because it is to preface the journal of the first blessed and glorious instrument of this work , and for a testimony to him in his singular qualifications and services , in which he abundantly excelled in this day , and are worthy to be set forth as an example to all succeeding times ; to the glory of the most high god , and for a just memorial to that worthy and excellent man , his faithful servant and apostle to this generation of the world. i am now come to the third head or branch of my preface , viz. the instrumental author . for it is natural for some to say , well , here is the people and work , but where and who was the man , the instrument ; he that in this age was sent to begin this work and people . i shall , as god shall enable me , declare who and what he was , not only by report of others , but from my own long and most inward converse and intimate knowledge of him ; for which my soul blesseth god , as it hath often done ; and i doubt not , but by that time i have discharged my self of this part of my preface , my serious readers will believe i had good cause so to do . the blessed instrument of and in this day of god , and of whom i am now about to write , was george fox , distinguished from another of that name , by that other 's addition of younger to his name in all his writings ; not that he was so in years , but that he was so in the truth , but he was also a worthy man , witness and servant of god in his time . but this george fox was born in leicestershire , about the year . he descended of honest and sufficient parents , who endeavoured to bring him up , as they did the rest of their children , in the way and worship of the nation ; especially his mother , who was a woman accomplisht above most of her degree in the place where she lived . but from a child he appeared of another frame of mind than the rest of his brethren ; being more religious , inward , still , solid and observing beyond his years , as the answers he would give , and the questions he would put upon occasion , manifested to the astonishment of those that heard him , especially in divine things . his mother taking notice of his singular temper , and the gravity , wisdom and piety that very early shined through him , refusing childish and vain sports and company , when very young ; she was tender and indulgent over him , so that from her he met with little difficulty . as to his employment he was brought up in country business , and as he took most delight in sheep , so he was very skillful in them , an employment that very well suited his mind in several respects , both for its innocency and solitude ; and was a just figure of his after ministry and service . i shall not break in upon his own account , which is by much the best that can be given , and therefore desire , what i can , to avoid saying any thing of what is said already , as to the perticular passages of his coming forth ; but , in general , when he was somewhat above twenty , he left his friends , and visited the most retired and religious people in those parts ; and some there were short of few , if any , in this nation , who waited for the consolation of israel night and day ; as zacherias , anna and good old simeon did of old time. to these he was sent , and these he sought out in the neighbouring countrys , and among them he sojourned till his more ample ministry came upon him . at this time he taught and was an example of silence , endeavouring to bring them from self-performances , testifying and turning to the light of christ within them , and encouraging them to wait in patience to feel the power of it to stir in their hearts , that their knowledge and worship of god might stand in the power of an endless life , which was to be found in the light , as it was obeyed in the manifestation of it in man. for in the word was life , and that life is the light men. life in the word , light in men , and life in men as the light is obeyed ; the children of the light living by the life of the word , by which the word begets them again to god , which is the regeneration and new birth , without which there is no coming unto the kingdom of god ; and which , whoever comes to , is greater than john , that is , than john's dispensation , which was not that of the kingdom , but the consummation of the legal , and forerunning of the gospel times . accordingly , several meetings were gathered in those parts , and thus his time was employed for some years . in . he being in his usual retirement to the lord upon a very high mountain , in some of the hither parts of yorkshire , as i take it , his mind exercised towards the lord , he had a vision of the great work of god in the earth , and of the way that he was to go forth to begin it . he saw people as thick as motes in the sun , that should in time , be brought home to the lord ; that there might be but one shepherd and one sheepfold in all the earth . there his eye was directed northward , beholding a great people that should receive him and his message in those parts . upon this mountain he was moved of the lord to sound out his great and notable day , as if he had been in a great auditory , and from thence went north , as the lord had shown him ; and in every place where he came , if not before he came to it , he had his particular exercise and service shown to him , so that the lord was his leader indeed ; for it was not in vain that he travailled , god in most places sealing his commission with the convincement of some of all sorts , as well publicans as sober professors of religion . some of the first and most eminent of them , which are at rest , were richard farnsworth , james nayler , william dewsberry , francis howgil , edward burroughs , john camm , john audland , richard hubberthorn , t. taylor , john aldam , t. holmes , alexander parker , william simpson , william caton , john stubbs , robert widders , john burnyeat , robert lodge , thomas salthouse , and many more worthies , that cannot be well here named , together with divers yet living of the first and great convincement , who after the knowledge of god's purging judgments in themselves , and some time of waiting in silence upon him , to feel and receive power from on high to speak in his name , ( which none else rightly can , though they may use the same words . ) they felt the divine motions , and were frequently drawn forth , especially to visit the publick assemblies , to reprove , inform and exhort them , sometimes in markets , fairs , streets , and by the high-way-side , calling people to repentance , and to turn to the lord with their hearts as well as their mouths ; directing them to the light of christ within them , to see and examine and consider their ways by , and to eschew the evil and do the good and acceptable will of god. and they suffered great hardships for this their love , and good-will , being often stockt , stoned , beaten , whipt and imprisoned , though honest men and of good report where they lived , that had left wives and children , and houses and lands to visit them with a living call to repentance . and though the priests generally set themselves to oppose them , and write against them , and insinuated most false and scandalous stories to defame them , stirring up the magistrates to suppress them , especially in those northern parts ; yet god was pleased so to fill them with his living power , and give them such an open door of utterance in his service , that there was a mighty convincement over those parts . and through the tender and singular indulgence of judge bradshaw and judge fell , who were wont to go that circuit , in the infancy of things , the priests were never able to gain the point they laboured for , which was to have proceeded to blood , and if possible , herod like , by a cruel exercise of the civil power , to have cut them off and rooted them out of the country . especially judge fell , who was not only a check to their rage in the course of legal proceedings , but otherwise upon occasion , and finally countenanced this people ; for his wife receiving the truth with the first , it had that influence upon his spirit , being a just and wise man , and seeing in his own wife and family , a full confutation to all the popular clamours against the way of truth , that he covered them what he could , and freely opened his doors , and gave up his house to his wife and her friends , not valuing the reproach of ignorant or evil minded people , which i here mention , to his and her honour , and which will be i believe , an honour and a blessing to such of their name and family , as shall be found in that tenderness , humility , love and zeal for the truth and people of the lord. that house was for some years at first , till the truth had opened its way in the southern parts of this island , an eminent receptacle of this people . others of good note and substance in those northern countrys , had also opened their houses with their hearts , to the many publishers , that in a short time the lord had raised to declare his salvation to the people , and where meetings of the lord's messengers were frequently held , to communicate their services and exercises , and comfort and edify one another in their blessed ministry . but least this may be thought a digression , having touched upon this before , i return to this excellent man : and for his personal qualities , both natural , moral and divine as they appeared in his converse with brethren and in the church of god ; take as follows . i. he was a man that god endued with a clear and wonderful depth , a discerner of others spirits , and very much a master of his own . and though the side of his understanding which lay next to the world , and especially the expression of it might sound uncouth and unfashionable to nice ears , his matter was nevertheless very profound ; and would not only bear to be often considered , but the more it was so , the more weighty and instructing it appeared . and as abruptly and brokenly as sometimes his sentences would fall from him , about divine things , it is well known they were often as texts to many fairer declarations . and indeed it showed beyond all contradiction that god sent him , that no arts or parts had any share in his matter or manner of his ministry ; and that so many great , excellent and necessary truths as he came forth to preach to mankind , had therefore nothing of man's wit or wisdom to recommend them . so that as to man he was an original , being no man's copy . and his ministry and writings show they are from one that was not taught of man , nor had learned what he said by study . nor were they notional or speculative , but sensible and practical truths , tending to conversion and regeneration , and the setting up the kingdom of god in the hearts of men , and the way of it was his work. so that i have many times been overcome in my self , and been made to say , with my lord and master upon the like occasion ; i thank thee o father lord of heaven and earth , that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent of this world , and revealed them to babes , for many times hath my soul bowed in an humble thankfulness to the lord , that he did not choose any of the wise and learned of this world to be the first messenger in our age , of his blessed truth to men ; but that he took one that was not of high degree , or elegant speech , or learned after the way of this world , that his message and work he sent him to do , might come with less suspicion or jealousie of humane wisdom and interest , and with more force and clearness upon the consciences of those , that sincerely sought the way of truth in the love of it . i say , beholding with the eye of my mind which the god of heaven had opened in me , the marks of god's finger and hand visibly in this testimony , from the clearness of the principle , the power and efficacy of it in the exemplary sobriety , plainness , zeal , steadiness , humility , gravity , punctuality , charity and circumspect care in the government of church affairs , which shined in his and their life and testimony that god employed in this work , it greatly confirmed me that it was of god , and engaged my soul in a deep love , fear , reverence and thankfulness for his love and mercy therein to mankind ; in which mind i remain , and shall , i hope , to the end of my daies . ii. in his testimony or ministry , he much laboured to open truth , to the peoples understandings , and to bottom them upon the principle , and principal , christ jesus , the light of the world , that by bringing them to something that was of god in themselves , they might the better know and judge of him and themselves . he had an extraordinary gift in opening the scriptures . he would go to the marrow of things , and show the mind , harmony and fullfilling of them with much plainness , and to great comfort and edification . the mistery of the first and second adam , of the fall and restoration , of the law and gospel , of shadows and substance , of the servant and sons state , and the fullfiling of the scriptures in christ , and by christ the true light , in all that are his , through the obedience of faith , were much of the substance and drift of his testimonies . in all which he was witnessed to be of god , being sensibly felt to speak that which he had received of christ , and was his own experience , in that which never ers nor fails . but above all , he excelled in prayer . the inwardness and weight of his spirit , the reverence and solemnity of his address and behaviour , and the fewness and fulness of his words , have often struck , even strangers , with admiration , as they used to reach others with consolation . the most awfull , living , reverent frame i ever felt or beheld , i must say was his in prayer . and truly it was a testimony he knew and lived neerer to the lord than other men ; for they that know him most will see most reason to approach him with reverence and fear . he was of an innocent life , no busie body , nor self seeker , neither touchy , nor critical : what fell from him was very inoffensive , if not very edifying . so meek , contented , modest , easie , steady , tender , it was a pleasure to be in his company . he exercised no authority but over evil , and that every where and in all ; but with love , compassion and long suffering . a most merciful man , as ready to forgive as unapt to take or give an offence . thousands can truly say , he was of an excellent spirit and savour among them , and because thereof , the most excellent spirits loved him with an unfained and unfading love. he was an incessant labourer ; for in his younger time , before his many great and deep sufferings and travels had enfeebled his body for itinerant services , he laboured much in the word , and doctrine and discipline in england , scotland and ireland , turning many to god , and confirming those that were convinced of the truth , and setling good order as to church affairs among them . and towards the conclusion of his travelling services , between the years seventy one , and seventy seven , he visited the churches of christ in the plantations in america , and in the united provinces , and germany as his following journal relates , to the convincement and consolation of many . after that time he chiefly resided in and about the city of london , and besides the services of his ministry which were frequent and serviceable , he writ much both to them that are within , and those that are without the communion . but the care he took of the affairs of the church in general was very great . he was often where the records of the affairs of the church are kept , and the letters from the many meetings of god's people over all the world where settled , come upon occasions , which letters he had read to him , and communicated them to the meeting that is weekly held there for such services , he would be sure to stir them up to discharge them , especially in suffering cases . showing great sympathy and compassion upon all such occasions , carefully looking into the respective cases , and endeavouring speedy relief according to the nature of them . so that the churches and any of the suffering members thereof , were sure not to be forgotten or delayed in their desires if he were there . as he was unwearied , so he was undaunted in his services for god and his people , he was no more to be moved to fear than to wrath. his behaviour at darby , litchfield , appleby , before oliver cromwell at launston , scarborough , worcester and westminster-hall , with many other places and exercises , did abundantly evidence it to his enemies as well as his friends . but as in the primitive times , some rise up against the blessed apostles of our lord jesus christ , even from among those that they had turned to the hope of the gospel , and who became their greatest trouble ; so this man of god had his share of suffering from some that were convinced by him , who through prejudice or mistake run against him , as one that sought dominion over conscience ; because he prest by his presence or epistles , a ready and zealous compliance with such good and wholesome things , as tended to an orderly conversation about the affairs of the church , and in their walking before men. that which contributed much to this ill work , was in some a begrudging of this meek man , the love and esteem he had and deserved in the hearts of the people , and weakness in others , that were taken with their groundless suggestions of imposition and blind obedience . they would have had every man independent , that as he had the principle in himself , he should only stand and fall to that and no body else ; not considering that the principle is one in all ; and though the measure of light or grace might differ , yet the nature of it was the same , and being so , they struck at the spiritual unity , which a people , guided by the same principle , are naturally led into : so that what is an evil to one , is so to all , and what is vertuous , honest and of good report to one , is so to all , from the sense and savour of the one universal principle which is common to all , ( and which the disaffected profess to be ) the root of all true christian fellowship , and that spirit into which the people of god drink and come to be spiritually minded , and of one heart and one soul. some weakly mistook good order in the government of church affairs , for discipline in worship , and that it was so prest or recommended by him and other brethren : and they were ready to reflect the same things that dissenters had very reasonably objected upon the national churches , that have coercively pressed conformity to their respective creeds and worships : whereas these things related wholly to conversation , and the outward ( and as i may say ) civil part of the church , that men should walk up to the principles of their belief , and not be wanting in care and charity . but though some have stumbled and fallen through mistakes , and an unreasonable obstinancy , even to a prejudice ; yet blessed be god , the generality have returned to their first love , and seen the work of the enemy , that looses no opportunity or advantage by which he may check or hinder the work of god , and disquiet the peace of his church , and chill the love of his people to the truth and one to another ; and there is hope of divers that are yet at a distance . in all these occasions , though there was no person the discontented struck so sharply at , as this good man , he bore all their weakness and prejudice , and returned not reflection for reflection ; but forgave them their weak and bitter speeches , praying for them that they might have a sense of their hurt , and see the subtilty of the enemy to rend and devide , and return into their first love , that thought no ill. and truly , i must say , that though god had visibly cloathed him with a divine preference and authority , and indeed his very presence exprest a religious majesty ; yet he never abused it , but held his place in the church of god with great meakness and a most engaging humility and moderation . for upon all occasions , like his blessed master , he was a servant to all ; holding and exercising his eldership , in the invisible power that had gathered them , with reverence to the head and care over the body : and was received only in that spirit and power of christ as the first and chief elder in this age ; who , as he was therefore worthy of double honour , so for the same reason it was given by the faithful of this day ; because his authority was inward and not outward , and that he got it and kept it by the love of god and power of an endless life . i write my knowledge and not report , and my witness is true , having been with him for weeks and months together on divers occasions , and those of the nearest and most exercising nature , and that by night and by day , by sea and by land ; in this and in foreign countrys : and i can say , i never saw him out of his place , or not a match for every service or occasion . for in all things he acquitted himself like a man , yea a strong man , a new and heavenly minded man. a divine and a naturalist , and all of god almighty's making . i have been surprised at his questions and answers in natural things ; that whilst he was ignorant of useless and sophistical science , he had in him the foundation of useful and commendable knowledge , and cherisht it every where . civil beyond all forms of breeding , in his behaviour . very temperate , eating little , and sleeping less , though a bulky person . thus he lived and sojourned among us , and as he lived , so he died ; feeling the same eternal power that had raised and preserved him in his last moments . so full of assurance was he , that he triumpht over death ; and so even to the last , as if death were hardly worth notice or a mention : recommending to some with him , the dispatch and dispersion of an epistle , just before written to the churches of christ , throughout the world , and his own books ; but above all , friends , and of all friends , those in ireland and america , twice over . saying , mind poor friends in ireland and america . and to some that came in and enquired how he found himself , he answered , never heed , the lord's power is over all weakness and death , the seed reigns , blessed be the lord : which was about four or five hours before his departure out of this world. he was at the great meeting near lombard-street on the first day of the week , and it was the third following about ten at night when he left us ; being at the house of h. goldney in the same court. in a good old age he went , after having lived to see his childrens children to many generations in the truth . he had the comfort of a short illness , and the blessing of a clear sense to the last ; and we may truly say , with a man of god of old , that being dead , he yet speaketh ; and though absent in body , he is present in spirit ; neither time nor place being able to interrupt the communion of saints , or dissolve the fellowships of the spirits of the just . his works praise him , because they are to the praise of him that worked by him ; for which his memorial is , and shall be blessed . i have done , as to this part of my preface , when i have left this short epitaph to his name . many sons have done virtuously in this day , but dear george thou excellest them all. and now , friends , you that profess to walk in the way , this blessed man was sent of god to turn us into , suffer i beseech you the word of exhortation , as well fathers as children , and elders as young men. the glory of this day and foundation of the hope that has not made us ashamed since we were a people , you know is that blessed principle of light and life of christ which we profess , and direct all people to , as the great instrument and agent of man's conversion to god : it was by this we were first touched , and effectually enlightned as to our inward state , which put us upon the consideration of our latter end , causing us to set the lord before our eyes , and to number our days , that we might apply our hearts to wisdom . in that day we judged not after the sight of the eye , or after the hearing of the ear , but according to the light and sense this blessed principle gave us ; we judged and acted in reference to things and persons , our selves and others , yea , towards god our maker . for being quickned by it in our inward man , we could easily discern the difference of things , and feel what was right , and what was wrong , and what was fit and what not , both in reference to religion and civil concerns . that being the ground of the fellowship of all saints , it was in that our fellowship stood . in this we desired to have a sense one of another , acted towards one another , and all men , in love , faithfulness and fear . in the feeling of the motions of this principle we drew near to the lord , and waited to be prepared by it , that we might feel those drawings and movings , before we approached the lord in prayer , or open'd our mouths in ministry . and in our beginning and ending with th●● , stood our comfort , service and edification . and as we run faster , or fell short we made burthens for our selves to bear ; our services finding in our selves a rebuke instead of an acceptance , and in lieu of well done , who has required this at your hands ? in that day we were an exercised people , our very countenances and deportment declared it . care for others was then much upon us , as well as for our selves , especially the young convinced . often had we the burthen of the word of the lord to our neighbours , relations and acquaintance ; and sometimes strangers also , we were in travail for one anothers preservation : not seeking , but shunning occasions of any coldness or misunderstanding , treating one another as those that believed and felt god present . which kept our conversation innocent , serious and weighty , guarding our selves against the cares and friendships of the world. we held the truth in the spirit of it , and not in our own spirits , or after our own wills and affections . they were bowed and brought into subjection , in so much that it was visible to them that knew us , we did not think our selves at our own dispose , to go where we list , or say or do what we list , or when we list . our liberty stood in the liberty of the spirit of truth , and no pleasure , no profit , no fear no favour could draw us from this retired , strict and watchful frame . we were so far from seeking occasions of company , that we avoided them what we could ; persuing our own business with moderation , instead of medling with other peoples unnecessarily . our words were few and savoury , our looks composed and weighty , and our whole deportment very observable . true it is , that this retired and strict sort of life from the liberty of the conversation of the world , exposed us to the censures of many , as humourists , conceited and self-righteous persons , &c. but it was our preservation from many snares , to which others were continually exposed by the prevalency of the lust of the eye , the lust of the flesh , and the pride of life , that wanted no occasions or temptations to excite them abroad in the converse of the world. i cannot forget the humility and chast zeal of that day . oh! how constant at meetings , how retired in them , how firm to truth 's life , as well as truth 's principles ; and how entire and united in our communion , as indeed became those that profess one head , even christ jesus the lord. this being the testimony and example the man of god , before mentioned , was sent to declare and leave amongst us , and we having embraced the same as the merciful visitation of god to us , the word of exhortation at this time is , that we continue to be found in the way of this testimony with all zeal and integrity , and so much the more , by how much the day draweth near . and first , as to you , my beloved and much honoured brethren in christ , that are in the exercise of the ministry : oh , feel life in the ministry ! let life be your commission , your well-spring and treasury , in all such occasions , else you well know , there can be no begetting to god , since nothing can quicken or make people alive to god , but the life of god : and it must be a ministry in and from life , that enlivens any people to god. we have seen the fruit of all other ministrys by the few that are turned from the evil of their ways . it is not our parts , or memory , the repetition of former openings in our own will and time , that will do god's work. a dry doctrinal ministry , however sound in words , can reach but the ear , and is but a dream at the best : there is another soundness , that is soundest of all , viz. christ the power of god. this is the key of david , that opens and none shuts , and shuts , and none can open ; as the oil to the lamp , and the soul to the body , so is that to the best of words . which made christ to say , my words they are spirit , and they are life ; that is , they are from life , and therefore they make you alive , that receive them . if the disciples that had lived with jesus , were to stay at jerusalem till they received it ; so must we wait to receive , before we minister , if we will turn people from darkness to light , and from satan's power to god. i fervently bow my knees to the god and father of our lord jesus christ , that you may always be like minded , that you may ever wait reverently for the coming and opening of the word of life , and tend upon it in your ministry and service , that you may serve god in his spirit . and be it little , or be it much , it is well ; for much is not too much , and the least is enough , if from the motion of god's spirit ; and without it , verily , never so little is too much , because to no profit . for it is the spirit of the lord immediately , or through the ministry of his servants , that teacheth his people to profit ; and to be sure , so far as we take him along with us in our services , so far we are profitable and no farther . for if it be the lord that must work all things in us and for our selves ; much more is it the lord , that must work in us for the conversion of others . if therefore it was once a cross to us to speak , though the lord required it at our hands ; let it never be so to be silent , when he does not . it is one of the most dreadful sayings in the book of god , that he that adds to the words of the prophency of this book , god will add the plagues written in this book . to keep back the counsel of god , is as terrible ; for he that takes away from the words of the prophecy of this book , god shall take away his part out of the book of life . and truly , it has great caution in it to those , that use the name of the lord , to be well assured , the lord speaks , that they may not be found of the number of those , that add to the words of the testimony of prophecy , which the lord giveth them to bear ; nor yet to mince or diminish the same , both being so very offensive to god. wherefore , brethren , let us be careful neither to out-go our guide , nor yet loiter behind him ; since he that makes haste , may miss his way , and he that stays behind , loose his guide : for even those , that have received the word of the lord , had need wait for wisdom , that they may see how to divide the word aright ; which plainly implieth that it is possible for one , that hath received the word of the lord , to miss in the division and application of it , which must come from an impatiency of spirit , and a self-working , which makes an unsound and dangerous mixture ; and will hardly beget a right minded living people to god. i am earnest in this , above all other considerations , as to publick brethren , well knowing how much it concerns the present and future state , and preservation of the church of christ jesus , that has been gathered and built up by a living and powerful ministry , that the ministry be held , preserved and continued in the manifestations , motions and supplies of the same life and power from time to time . and where ever it is observed , that any one does minister more from gifts and parts , than life and power , though they have an inlightned and doctrinal understanding ; let them in time be advised and admonished for their preservation , because insensibly such will come to depend upon a self-sufficiency ; to forsake christ the living fountain , and to hew out unto themselves cisterns that will hold no living waters ; and by degrees draw others from waiting upon the gift of god in themselves , and to feel it in others , in order to their strength and refreshment to wait upon them , and to turn from god to man again , and so to make shipwrack of the faith once delivered to the saints , and of a good conscience towards god ; which are only kept by that divine gift of life , that begat the one and awaken'd and sanctified the other in the beginning . nor is it enough that we have known the divine gift , and in it have reached to the spirits in prison , and been the instruments of the convincing of others of the way of god , if we keep not as low and poor in our selves , and as depending upon the lord as ever ; since no memory , no repetitions of former openings , revelations or enjoyments will bring a soul to god , or afford bread to the hungry , or water to the thirsty , unless life go , with what we say , and that must be waited for . o that we may have no other fountain , treasury or dependence ! that none may presume at any rate to act of themselves for god! because they have long acted from god , that we may not supply want of waiting with our own wisdom , or think that we may take less care , and more liberty in speaking , than formerly ; and that where we do not feel the lord by his power to open us and enlarge us , whatever be the expectation of the people , or has been our customary supply and character , we may not exceed or fill up the time with our own . i hope , we shall ever remember , who it was that said , of your selves you can do nothing , our sufficiency is in him : and if we are not to speak our own words , or take thought what we should say to men in our defence , when exposed for our testimony , surely , we ought to speak none of our own words , or take thought what we shall say in our testimony and ministry in the name of the lord to the souls of the people ; for then of all times , and of all other occasions should it be fulfilled in us ; for it is not you that speak , but the spirit of my father that speaketh in you . and indeed , the ministry of the spirit must and does keep its analogy and agreement with the birth of the spirit ; that as no man can inherit the kingdom of god , unless he be born of the spirit ; so no ministery can beget a soul to god , but that which is from the spirit . for this , as i said before , the disciples waited before they went forth ; and in this our elder brethren , and messengers of god in our day , waited , visited and reached to us . and having begun in the spirit , let none ever hope or seek to be made perfect in the flesh : for what is the flesh to the spirit , or the chaff to the wheat ? and if we keep in the spirit , we shall keep in the unity of it , which is the ground of true fellowship . for by drinking into that one spirit , we are made one people to god , and by it we are continued in the unity of the faith , and the bond of peace . no envying , no bitterness , no strife can have place with us . we shall watch always for good , and not for evil over one another , and rejoice exceedingly , and not begrudge at one anothers increase in the riches of the grace , with which god replenisheth his faithful servants . and , brethren , as to you is committed the dispensation of the oracles of god , which give you frequent opportunities , and great place with the people among whom you travail , i beseech you that you would not think it sufficient to declare the word of life in their assemblies , however edifying and comfortable such opportunities may be to you and them : but as was the practice of the man of god before mentioned , in great measure , when among us , inquire the state of the several churches you visit ; who among them are afflicted or sick , who are tempted ; if any are unfaithful or obstinate , and endeavour to issue those things in the wisdom and power of god , which will be a glorious crown upon your ministry . as that prepares your way in the hearts of the people to receive you as men of god , so it gives you credit with them to do them good by your advice in other respects . the afflicted will be comforted by you , the tempted strengthened , the sick refreshed , the unfaithful convicted and restored , and such as are obstinate softned and fitted for reconciliation , which is clenching the nail , and applying and fastning the general testimony by that particular care of the several branches of it , in reference to them more immediately concerned in it . for though good and wise men and elders too , may reside in such places , who are of worth and importance in the general , and in other places ; yet it does not always follow , that they may have the room they deserve in the hearts of the people they live among ; or some particular occasion may make it unfit for him or them to use that authority . but you that travail as god's messengers , if they receive you in the greater , shall they refuse you in the less ? and if they own the general testimony , can they withstand the particular application of it in their own cases ? thus , ye will shew your selves workmen indeed , and carry your business before you , to the praise of his name that hath called you from darkness to light , that you might turn others from satan's power unto god and his kingdom , which is within . and oh that there were more of such faithful labourers in the vineyard of the lord ! never more need since the day of god! wherefore i cannot but cry and call aloud to you , that have been long professors of the truth , and know the truth in the convincing power of it , and have had a sober conversation among men , yet content your selves only to know truth for your selves ; to go to meetings , and exercise an ordinary charity in the church , and an honest behaviour in the world , and limit your selves within those bounds , feeling little or no concern upon your spirits for the glory of the lord in the prospirity of his truth in the earth , more than to be glad that others succeed in such service ; arise ye in the name and power of the lord jesus ! behold , how white the fields are unto harvest in this and other nations , and how few able and faithful labourers there are to work therein ! your country folks , neighbours and kindred want to know the lord and his truth , and to walk in it . does nothing lie at your door upon their account ? search and see , and loose no time , i beseech you , for the lord is at hand . i do not judge you , there is one that judgeth all men , and his judgment is true : you have mightily increased in your outward substance ; may you equally increase in your inward riches , and do good with both , while you have a day to do good. your enemies would once have taken what you had from you , for his names sake , in whom you have believed ; wherefore he has given you much of the world in the face of your enemies . but oh let it be your servant and not your master , your diversion rather than your business ! let the lord be chiefly in your eye , and ponder your ways , and see if god has nothing more for you to do ; and if you find your selves short in your account with him , then wait for his preparation , and be ready to receive the word of command , and be not weary of well doing , when you have put your hand to the plow ; and assuredly you shall reap ( if you faint not ) the fruit of your heavenly labour in god's everlasting kingdom . and you , young convinced ones , be you entreated and exhorted to a diligent and chast waiting upon god , in the way of his blessed manifestation and appearance of himself to you . look not out , but within : let not anothers liberty be your snare . neither act by imitation , but sense and feeling of god's power in your selves : crush not the tender buddings of it in your souls , nor over run in your desires , and your warmness of affections the holy and gentle motions of it. remember it is a still voice that speaks to us in this day , and that it is not to be heard in the noises and hurries of the mind ; but is distinctly understood in a retired frame . jesus loved and chose out solitudes ; often going to mountains , to gardens and sea-sides to avoid crowds and hurries , to shew his disciples it was good to be solitary , and sit loose to the world. two enemies lie near your states , imagination and liberty , but the plain , practical , living , holy truth , that has convinced you will preserve you , if you mind it in your selves , and bring all thoughts , imaginations and affections to the test of it , to see if they are wrought in god , or of the enemy , or your own selves : so will a true tast , discerning and judgment , be preserved to you , of what you should do and leave undone : and in your diligence and faithfulness in this way you will come to inherit substance ; and christ , the eternal wisdom , will fill your treasury . and when you are converted , as well as convinced , then confirm your brethren , and be ready to every good word and work , that the lord shall call you to ; that you may be to his praise , who has chosen you to be partakers with the saints in light of a kingdom that cannot be shaken , an inheritance incorruptible , in eternal habitations . and now , as for you that are the children of god's people , a great concern is upon my spirit for your good ; and often are my knees bowed to the god of your fathers for you , that you may come to be partakers of the same divine life and power , that has been the glory of this day ; that a generation you may be to god , an holy nation and a peculiar people , zealous of good works , when all our heads are laid in the dust . oh you young men and women , let it not suffice you , that you are the children of the people of the lord ! you must also be born again , if you will inherit the kingdom of god. your fathers are but such after the flesh , and could but beget you into the likeness of the first adam ; but you must be begotten into the likeness of the second adam by a spiritual generation . and therefore look carefully about you , oh ye children of the children of god , consider your standing , and see what you are in relation to this divine kindred , family and birth ! have you obeyed the light , and received and walked in the spirit , that is the incorruptible seed of the word and kingdom of god , of which you must be born again : god is no respecter of persons . the father cannot save or answer for the child , the child for the father , but in the sin thou sinnest , thou shalt die ; and in the righteousness thou doest , through christ jesus , thou shalt live ; for it is the willing and obedient that shall eat the good of the land. be not deceived , god is not mocked , such as all nations and people sow , such they shall reap at the hand of the just god. and then your many and great priviledges , above the children of other people , will add weight in the scale against you , if you choose not the way of the lord. for you have had line upon line , and precept upon precept , and not only good doctrine , but good example ; and which is more , you have been turned to and acquainted with a principle in your selves , which others have been ignorant of ; and you know , you may be as good as you please , without the fear of frowns and blows , or being turned out of doors and forsaken of father and mother for god's sake , and his holy religion , as has been the case of some of your fathers in the day they first entred into this holy path : and if you , after hearing and seeing the wonders that god has wrought in the deliverance and perservation of them , through a sea of troubles , and the manifold temporal , as well as spiritual blessings , that he has filled them with in the sight of their enemies , you should neglect and turn your backs upon so great and so near a salvation , you would not only be most ungreatful children to god and them , but must expect that god will call the children of those that knew him not , to take the crown out of your hands , and that your lot will be a dreadful judgment at the hand of the lord. but oh that it may never be so with any of you ! the lord forbid , saith my soul. wherefore , oh ye young men and women , look to the rock of your fathers ! chuse the god of your fathers : there is no other god but him ; no other light but his ; no other grace but his , nor spirit , but his to convince you , quicken and comfort you ; to lead , guide and preserve you to god's everlasting kingdom : so will you be possessors , as well as professors of the truth ; embracing it not only by education but judgment and conviction , from a sense begotten in your souls , through the operation of the eternal spirit and power of god in your hearts , by which you may come to be the seed of abraham through faith , and the circumcision not made with hands , and so heirs of the promise made to the fathers of an incorruptible crown : that ( as i said before ) a generation you may be to god , holding up the profession of the blessed truth in the life and power of it . for formality in religion is nauseous to god and good men ; and the more so , where any form or appearance has been new and peculiar , and begun and practised upon a principle , with an uncommon zeal and strictness . therefore i say , for you to fall flat and formal , and continue the profession without that salt and savour , by which it is come to obtain a good report among men , is not to answer god's love , nor your parents care , nor the mind of truth in your selves , nor in those that are without ; who tho' they will not obey the truth , have sight and sense enough to see if they do that make a profession of it . for where the divine virtue of it is not felt in the soul , and waited for , and lived in , imperfections will quickly break out , and shew themselves , and detect the unfaithfulness of such persons , and that their insides are not seasoned with the nature of that holy principle which they profess . wherefore , dear children , let met intreat you to shut your eyes at the temptations and allurements of this low and perishing world , and not suffer your affections to be captivated by those lusts and vanities that your fathers , for truths sake , long since turned their backs upon : but as you believe it to be the truth , receive it into your hearts , that you may become the children of god : so that it may never be said of you , as the evangelist writes of the jews of his time , that christ , the true light , came to his own , but his own received him not ; but to as many as received him , to them he gave power to become the children of god ; which were born , not of blood , nor of the will of the flesh , nor of the will of man , but of god. a most close and comprehensive passage to this occasion : you exactly and peculiarly answer to those professing jews , in that you bear the name of god's people , by being the children and wearing of the form of god's people : so that he by his light in you , may be said to come to his own , and if you obey it not , but turn your back upon it , and walk after the vanities of your minds , you will be of those that receive him not , which , i pray god , may never be your case and judgment ; but that you may be throughly sensible of the many and great obligations you lie under to the lord for his love , and your parents for their care : and with all your heart and all your soul , and all your strength turn to the lord , to his gift and spirit in you , and hear his voice and obey it , that you may seal to the testimony of your fathers , by the truth and evidence of your own experience ; that your childrens children may bless you , and the lord for you , as those that delivered a faithful example , as well as record of the truth of god unto them . so will the gray hairs of your dear parents yet alive , go down to the grave with joy , to see you the posterity of truth , as well as theirs , and that not only their natures but spirit shall live in you when they are gone . i shall conclude this preface with a few words to those that are not of our communion , into whose hands this may come , especially those of our own nation . friends , as you are the sons and daughters of adam , and my brethren after the flesh , often and earnest have been my desires and prayers to god on your behalf , that you may come to know him that has made you to be your redeemer and restorer to the image that , through sin , you have lost , by the power and spirit of his son jesus christ , whom he hath given for the light and life of the world. and oh that you , who are called christians , would receive him into your heart ! for there it is you want him , and at that door he stands knocking , that you should let him in , but you do not open to him ; you are full of other guests , so that a manger is his lot among you now , as well as of old : yet you are full of profession , as were the jews when he came among them , who knew him not , but rejected and evilly intreated him . so that if you come not to the possession and experience of what you profess , all your formality in religion will stand you in no stead in the day of god's judgment . i beseech you ponder with your selves your eternal condition , and see what title , what ground and foundation you have for your christianity : if more than a profession , and an historical belief of the gospel . have you known the baptism of fire , and the holy ghost , and the fan of christ that winnows away the chaff ; the carnal lusts and affections ? that divine leven of the kingdom , that being received , levens the whole lump of man , sanctifying him throughout in body , soul and spirit ? if this be not the ground of your confidence , you are in a miserable estate . you will say perhaps , that though you are sinners , and live in the daily commission of sin , and are not santified , as i have been speaking , yet you have faith in christ , who has borne the curse for you , and in him you are compleat by faith ; his righteousness being imputed to you . but my friends , let me intreat you not to deceive your selves , in so important a point , as is that of your immortal souls . if you have true faith in christ , your faith will make you clean , it will sanctifie you ; for the saints faith was their victory : by this they over came sin within , and sinful men without . and if thou art in christ thou walkest not after the flesh , but after the spirit , whose fruits are manifest . yea , thou art a new creature , new made , new fashioned after god's will and mold : old things are done away , and behold , all things are become new : new love , desires , will , affections and practices . it is not any longer thou that livest , thou disobedient , carnal , worldly one ; but it is christ that liveth in thee , and to live is christ and to die is thy eternal gain ; because thou art assured , that thy corruptible shall put on incorruption , and thy mortal , immortality ; and that thou hast a glorious house eternal in the heavens that will never wax old or pass away . all this follows being in christ , as heat follows fire and light the sun. therefore have a care how you presume to rely upon such a notion , as that you are in christ , whilst in your old fallen nature . for what communion hath light with darkness , or christ with belial ? hear what the beloved disciple tells you : if we say we have fellowship with god , and walk in darkness , we lie , and do not the truth . that is , if we go on in a sinful way , are captivated by our carnal affections , and are not converted to god , we walk in darkness , and cannot possibly have any fellowship with god. christ cloths them with his righteousness that receive his grace in their hearts , and deny themselves , and take up his cross daily , and follow him . christ's righteousness makes men inwardly holy , of holy minds , wills and practices . it is nevertheless christs , because we have it ; for it is ours , not by nature , but by faith and adoption : it is the gift of god : but still tho' not ours , as of or from our selves , for in that sense it is christ's , for it is of and from him , yet it is ours ; and must be ours in possession , efficacy and enjoyment to do us any good , or christ's righteousness will profit us nothing . it was after this manner , that he was made to the primitive christians , righteousness , sanctification , justification and redemption ; and if ever you will have the comfort , kernel and marrow of the christian religion , thus you must come to learn and obtain it . now , my friends , by what you have read , and will read in what follows , you may perceive , that god has visited a poor people among you with this saving knowledge and testimony ; whom he has upheld and encreased to this day , notwithstanding the fierce opposition they have met withal . despise not the meanness of this appearance : it was , and yet is ( we know ) a day of small things , and of small account with too many ; and many hard and ill names are given to it ; but it is of god , it came from him because it leads to him . this we know , but we cannot make another know it , as we know it , unless he will take the same way to know it , that we took . the world talks of god ; but what do they do ? they pray for power , but reject the principle in which it is . if you would know god and worship and serve god , as you should do , you must come to the means he has ordained and given for that purpose . some seek it in books , some in learned men , but what they look for , is in themselves , but they overlook it . the voice is too still , the seed too small , and the light shineth in darkness . they are abroad , and so cannot divide the spoil ; but the woman , that lost her silver found it at home , after she had light her candle and swept her house . do you so too , and you shall find what pilate wanted to know , viz. truth . the light of christ within , who is the light of the world , ( and so a light to you , that tells you the truth of your condition ) leads all , that take heed unto it , out of darkness into god's marvellous light ; for light grows upon the obedient . it is sown for the righteous , and their way is a shining light , that shines forth more and more to the perfect day . wherefore , o friends , turn in , turn in , i beseech you ! where is the poison , there is the antidote : there you want christ , and there you must find him ; and blessed be god , there you may find him . seek and you shall find , i testifie for god : but then you must seek aright , with your whole heart , as men that seek for their lives , yea , for their eternal lives : diligently , humbly , patiently , as those that can taste no pleasure , comfort or satisfaction in any thing else , unless you find him whom your souls want , and desire to know and love above all . o it is a travail , a spiritual travail ! let the carnal , profane world think and say as it will. and through this path you must walk to the city of god , that has eternal foundations , if ever you will come there . well! and what does this blessed light do for you ? why , . it sets all your sins in order before you : it detects the spirit of this world in all its bates and allurements , and shews how man came to fall from god , and the fallen estate he is in . . it begets a sense and sorrow , in such as believe in it , for this fearful laps . you will then see him distinctly , whom you have pierced him , and all the blows and wounds you have given him by your disobedience ; and how you have made him to serve with your sins , and you will weep and mourn for it , and your sorrow will be a godly sorrow . . after this it will bring you to the holy watch , to take care that you do so no more , that the enemy surprise you not again : then thoughts , as well as words and works , will come to judgment , which is the way of holiness , in which the redeemed of the lord do walk . here you will come to love god above all , and your neighbours as your selves . nothing hurts , nothing harms , nothing makes afraid on this holy mountain : now you come to be christ's indeed , for you are his in nature and spirit , and not your own . and when you are thus christ's , then christ is yours , and not before : and here communion with the father and with the son you will know , and the efficacy of the blood of cleansing , even the blood of jesus christ , that immaculate lamb , which speaketh better things than the blood of abel , and which cleanseth from all sin the consciences of those that , through the living faith , come to be sprinkled with it from dead works to serve the living god. to conclude , behold the testimony and doctrine of the people called quakers ! behold their practice and discipline ! and behold the blessed man and men that were sent of god in this excellent work and service ! all which will be more particularly expressed in the ensuing annals of the man of god ; which i do heartily recommend to my readers most serious perusal , and beseech almighty god , that his blessing may go along with it , to the convincing of many , as yet strangers to this holy dispensation , and also to the edification of the church of god in general : who , for his manifold and repeated mercies and blessings to his people in this day of his great love , is worthy ever to have the glory , honour , thanksgiving and renown ; and be it rendred and ascribed , with fear and reverence , through him in whom he is well pleased , his bloved son and lamb , our light and life , that sits with him upon the throne , world without end. amen , says one that god has long since mercifully favoured with his fatherly visitation , and who was not disobedient to the heavenly vision and call , to whom the way of truth is more lovely and precious than ever , and that knowing the beauty and benefit of it above all worldly treasure , has chosen it for his chiefest joy , and therefore recommends it to thy love and choice , because he is with great sincerity and affection thy souls friend . william penn. london , printed and sold by t. sowle , at the crooked billet in holly-well-lane , shoreditch , and near the meeting-house in white-hart-court in grace-church-street , . a brief answer to a false and foolish libel called the quakers opinions for their sakes that writ it and read it / by w.p. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a brief answer to a false and foolish libel called the quakers opinions for their sakes that writ it and read it / by w.p. penn, william, - . p. s.n.], [london : . signed: william penn. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers opinions. society of friends -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brief answer to a false and foolish libell , called , the qvakers opinions , for their sakes that writ it and read it . by w. p. being defamed , we entreat , cor. . . printed in the year . sober reader , the end of controversie with good men , is the advancement of the truth ; with ill men , of themselves and their base interests ; in all which god is judge , who judgeth righteously , and will reward every one according to their works , nor doth his judgment slumber . most parties in europe boast themselves of being christians , an excellent character indeed ; but the worst is , there is little more then a boast in it . i am not incharitable ; i have first judged my self . let none deceive themselves . to be like christ , is to be a christian , and not else ; and christians are in concord ; for christ is not divided , neither is that body , of which he is truly head , at variance ; how much discord , so much degeneracy from god ; for he is one , and so are those that are born of him ; the children of god are not divided , because one and the same holy spirit leads them . that which is the guide of one , is the guide of all ; and by this shall it be known who are gods children , if they bring forth the fruits of his divine spirit , which , saith the apostle , are these , love , joy , peace , long-suffering , gentleness , goodness , faith , meekness , temperance , against such there is no law. and they , sayes he , that are christs have crucified the flesh , with the affections and lusts ; this only will avail in the great judgment of the lord. therefore i beseech all vain contenders to consider of their own standing , what their work is , who employes them , and what their wages will be . tell me thou vain disputer and vitious liver , what is religion without holy love ? what is faith without good works ? what is worship without godly fear and christianity , without true self-denyal ? it is not he that cryes , lord , lord , but he that does the will of my father , said christ , shall be accepted . there is a great talk of mans laps in adam , and restoration in christ , but they serve only for a sound with too many : for did people sincerely believe that they are fallen from true love , meekness , patience , humility , mercy , justice , purity , &c. and did they but consider , that they are not restored to those heavenly qualifications , but that they live in fleshly lusts of one sort or other , some in voluptuousness , others in envy ; and therefore not really restored or redeemed by christ , nor truly in a state of salvation , but in peril of eternal misery , certainly they would not pass away their little span of precious time in so much worldly pleasure , neglect of god , and carelesness of the other world , if they have any the least hope of it . reader , the petulancy of some adversary or other has given occasion for this little treatise : the design of which is both to reprove him , and to hinder others from being abused by him , that so the innocency of a people , whom god hath raised by his own power and wisdom to glorify him in their bodies souls and spirits ( which are his ) may be delivered from the mistakes of his ignorance , and the reflections of his malice . and truly , my servent prayers to almighty god are , that he would yet more and more send forth his light and his truth to inform the understandings , and overcome the hearts of all people , that they may experimentally know the redemption of their sou's from the prevalency of sin , and the power of the god of this world's lusts by the blood of jesus , who is the lamb of god that takes away the sin of the world ; then shall love , faith and holiness encrease , and all unrighteousness come to an end , amen . w. p. an answer to a false and foolish libel , called , the qvakers opinions . opinion i. the quakers deny the authority of holy scriptures , as the rule of faith and practice unto christians . answer , this we flatly deny , and charge our adversary to make it good in terminis , in so many words , or retract his charge . for the authority of the scripture is the spirit ‖ and power of god , which we say is our rule and guide , as it was the rule of the holy men of god both before the scriptures were written , and when they spoke and writ them . and to say we deny it to be our rule , is to say we deny our own principle , for owning of which you are angry with us . moses is taken on all hands to have been the first penman of sacred story , and that we cannot rise higher then his time for scripture , consequently then the scripture must take date ; but who will deny that abel had a rule to worship god by , enoch to walk with god by , noah to preach by , abraham , isaac and jacob to believe by ? if they had none , say so ; if they had , what was it , if not the spirit of truth and holiness , that strove with the old world , but was resisted ? and if the spirit of god was the rule of faith , worship and practice then , have we got another rule in the room of it now ? no such matter ; those that loved & feared god in all ages were ruled and guided by the spirit of god ; & though many helpers have been afforded men by the father of mercies and lights , yet still the spirit of truth is the great rule in and through them all . this is the rule of all rules , as god is the light of all lights ; yea , this is that rule of the new creature ; for the walking of the true christian is in and after the spirit ; yea , 't is the mark of being a child of god to be led and guided by the spirit of god , this is the scripture's testimony . there is no condemnation to those that walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit ; and as many as are led by the spirit of god , are the sons of god. the argument is plain , and altogether as unanswerable ; that which is to lead christians , is to rule christians ; but the spirit of truth is to lead christians , consequently the spirit of truth is to rule christians . so that to deny that the spirit of truth is the guide and rule of christians , is to gainsay the testimony of scripture , and the very tenure and nature of the second , new and everlasting covenant of life and salvation ; for in that state the law is writ in the heart , and the fear and spirit put in the inward part ; and what for , if not to rule and guide the soul in the path of life ? to conclude , as the spirit of truth revealed to the prophets things to come , and was a rule to them in discerning , receiving , declaring and writing those things , so is the same spirit of truth the rule and guide to all god's people in their reading and understanding of them now written ? and blessed are they that read with a good understanding . and that the simplicity of none may be abused , we declare , as we have frequently done , that the scriptures of truth were given forth by the holy men of god , as they were moved by the spirit of god ; and that they are a rule , yea , an excellent rule for instruction , reproof and doctrine , and all true christians ought to embrace and practice the holy mind and will of god thereby declared . and they are those that truly and substantially deny the scriptures , who in words own them , but in works deny them , and in their conversations walk not according to the godly rules therein contained ; such are whoremongers , fornicators , drunkards , lyars , back-biters , slanderers , such as the author or authors of this impious libel , envious persons , rioters , sporters , vain persons , lovers of pleasures more then lovers of god : these and such like are they that deny the authority of holy scripture ; yet as the devil used scripture against christ , so do his children use scripture at this day against the disciples of christ . opinion ii. the quakers deny the resurrection of the body . answ . the quakers deny no resurrection , that is according to scripture ; we own the resurrection both of the just and unjust ; and that our adversaries shall know one day to their confusion , if they repent not . and as the charge is laid down , we literally deny it , and require our adversaries to prove it : for we declare to all people , we own the resurrection of the body according to the pleasure of god : and every seed shall have its own body ; and wo to the wicked in that day . opinion iii. the quakers deny the person of jesus christ . answ . if by person of christ is meant the man christ jesus , we deny the charge ; for there is no other name given under heaven , by which salvation can be obtained . 't is christ alone that hath brought life and immortality to light : he is the propitiation , the mediator and intercessor ; and by him only can man come to god : and no man can come to him but such as come to his spirit in their own hearts . and such as have not the spirit of christ dwelling in them , are none of his . and these are they that deny christ , that deny his cross , break his law , and live not according to his example , who is meek and lowly , pure and undefiled , and separated from all sinners . so that the antichrists of our dayes are those that live according to the lusts of the eye , the lusts of the flesh , and pride of life , without god in the world , that is , without a sense of god upon their hearts : but their minds run after the things that are seen , which are temporal , neglecting the things that are eternal . and though such may profess christ in words , yet it shall be said unto them in the great day of account , depart from me ye that work iniquity . i would have our foolish and envious adversaries look at home , and prepare for the day of their account to god , and leave off their envy and bitterness , and mind god's fear , which will teach them to be meek and loving , sober and vertuous , that they may provide for their latter-end : for pure religion stands not in accusing and slandering , reviling and persecuting , but in keeping unspotted of the world ; for they who are of the world , are not of christ ; they who love the pride , pleasures , honours and lusts of this world deny christ , they are the antichrists indeed ; for christ saith , i am not of this world , neither is my kingdom of this world , nor are his followers of this world , therefore it is the world hates them ; but not under the name of christ's disciples , christians or children of god , by no means ; for such the world nominally owns ; but as hereticks ; blasphemers , and the like , which hath alwayes been the devil's policy : for the woolf with the sheeps-skin on him , has in every age been worrying the sheep that hath been covered with the wolf's-skin ; such have called light darkness , and darkness light. opinion iv. the quakers hold , that the light in every man is a sufficient guide unto salvation . answ . this is unfairly laid down ; but we say , that the light of christ in every man is a sufficient guide to salvation ; and who dares deny it ? i am the light of the world , faith christ , they that follow me shall not walk in darkness , but have the light of life . and saith john , if we walk in the light , the blood of jesus christ shall cleanse us from all unrighteousness . and it was the doctrine in old time , the path of the just is as the shining light , that shines more and more unto the perfect day . and the prophet isaiah prophetically writes of the latter dayes thus , come , let us walk in the light of the lord , and by the same prophet saith the lord , i will give thee ( christ ) for a light to the gentiles , that thou may'st be my salvation to the ends of the earth . and the apostle paul had that good opinion of the light , that he advised the saints of old , to put on the armour of light , that they might walk honestly as in the day , not in rioting and drunkenness , not in chambering and wantonness , not in strife and envy ; but put ye on the lord jesus christ , and make not provision for the flesh , to fulfil the lusts thereof . and it is nothing else , but the old jewish darkness , that spurns against the light of christ in our day : for the same spirit that rejected that light , grace and truth , with which he was filled in the day of his bodily appearance , is the same that resists and sleights that light , truth and grace , which from his fulness is distributed to the children of men ; but as it was then , so it is now the condemnation of the world , that light is come into the world , and that men love darkness rather then light , and the reason is plain , because their deeds are evil. every thing loves its like . opinion v. they hold that perfection is attainable in this life . answ . this also is not fairly laid down , being without distinction ; and did not compassion to the well-minded incline me to deliver our judgment in these matters , i would have put our adversary upon the proof of his assertions , without giving him the least help by a sight of our true principles , till he had first seen and acknowledged his own ignorance and inadvertency . we own perfection according to the scriptures ; walk thou before me , said god to abraham , and be thou perfect : who dare quibble this into an imperfection ? or who dare charge god with commanding what was impossible to be done ? noah was a just man , and perfect in his generation , and noah walked with god ; so did enoch . job also was a perfect man , and upright , one that feared god and eschewed evil . this christ exhorted his disciples to , be ye therefore perfect even as your father which is in heaven is perfect . this also the apostle paul prayes for , that they might be sanctified throughout , in body , soul and spirit . again thus , and the very god of peace sanctifie you wholely ; and i pray god your spirit , and soul , and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our lord jesus christ . yet further , till we all come in the unity of the faith , and of the knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man. again , that the man of god may be perfect . and to the hebrews saith the author of that epistle , let us go on to perfection ; and once more in the same epistle he saith , the god of peace make you perfect in every good work to do his will. this also was the apostle peter's prayer for the holy strangers scattered throughout pontus , gall●tia , cappadocia , asia and bythinia , the god of all grace , who hath called us into his eternal glory by christ jesus , make you perfect . i will conclude with the doctrine of the beloved disciple , that lay in his lord's bosome , and can give a better account of his mind and doctrine then any of our adversaries can do , thus , if we walk in the light as ( god ) is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin. again , i write unto you young men , because ye have overcome the wicked one. again , whosoever abideth in christ , sinneth not ; whosoever is born of god , doth not commit sin ; for his seed remaineth in him , and hē cannot sin , because he is born of god. again , if we love one another , god dwelleth in us , and his love is perfected in us ; god is love , and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in god , and god in him : herein is our love made perfect , that we have boldness in the day of judgment , because as he is , so are we in this world. what say rioters and envious persons to this , such as revile , waste and destroy their neighbours for the exercise of a peaceable conscience ? doth the love of god abide in them ? are they like unto the god of love in this world ? can they hope for his mercies in that world which is to come , who are cruel and abusive to their honest neighbours in this ? but more of that another time . yet again , whosoever is born of god overcometh the world , and sinneth not ; but he that is begotten of god keepeth himself that the wicked one toucheth him not . what think the enemies of perfection to this ? to conclude , they that deny perfection from sin , deny the end of christ's coming , if this beloved disciple may be judge ; for saith he , christ was manifested to take away our sins ; and whosoever abideth in him , sinneth not : for this purpose the son of god was manifested , that he might destroy the works of the devil ; and whatsoever is born of god , doth not commit sin. and without offence let me say , our adversaries may better employ themselves , then to turn advocates for the devil and his kingdom , as they seem to do , by charging the doctrine of perfection upon the quakers as an evil opinion ; for no man in his wits can believe they intend us any reputation or credit when they set the mark of perfection upon our creed . but is it not a great shame that men , who profess themselves to be christians , the disciples of that self-denying jesus , should make their lord's office our reproach , and the end of his blessed coming a mark of heresie ? why , was he sent but to save ? and how does he save , if people must necessarily live in sin , that eternally loseth them , and to save them from which he is come ? and thou shalt call his name jesus , said the angel , because he shall save his people from their sins . alas what have men to be saved from , if not from sin ? for sin set aside , man is good , and all his good ; if then sin loses men heaven and happiness , men must be saved from it , on they will be eternally lost ; for in that state christ will profit them nothing . to the quotations i shall make a brief return . the first quotation ; g. whitehead saith , that the light within must be god , because to deny it so to be , is to deny the omnipresence of god. to what is here alledged , this brought to disrepute our holy religion , i answer , that this adversary has not told us whether they were words spoken or written : if spoken , where be the witnesses ? if written , where is the book or paper ? however , the words are not indefensible ; for god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; and he is omnipresent , therefore in man : and in him we live , move and have our being , yea , more especially ; for it is he that searcheth the heart , and tryeth the reins , and that telleth unto man his thoughts . upon whom , said one of old , doth not his light arise ? to the second quotation , viz. it is damnable heresie to deny the worshipping the measure of light in every man. and that the spirit which god breathed in adam , was not man's spirit , but another ; the breath of our nostrils , the anointed lord ; this is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world : see rob. west's book , called , damnable heresies discovered , p. . i answer , st , that i have not the book cited , or cannot find , dly , that the man is not entirely in society with us , but there has been some dissatisfaction in the minds of our friends about him in several respects , and particularly this book was not received or printed by us . yet lastly , i know not but many good things may be in it ; but if in any thing it be unsound , it will not lie at our door : nor do i believe that the passage it self may not be vindicated , and that by authority of reason , scripture and the consent of ancient and modern authors . i will only say , that every appearance of god is god ; the light that comes from god is god ; for god is light , and god cannot be divided from himself , and the word measure of light relates to our capacity , that receive and know only by measure , and not to god , who , properly speaking , is immeasurable . and true it is , that the breath god breathed into adam was divine , if the learned rabbies commentators on that scripture be of any credit , as may be seen in my rejoynder to iohn faldo ; for a meer humane soul could not make adam live to god , much less make him the image of his creator . and if it was the divine life , i hope none will question if that life be christ , who says expresly of himself , i am the way , the truth , and the life ; who also says , i am the light of the world ; and this is iohn's testimony , in the word ( that made all things ) was life , and that life is the light of men ; and his ( says he ) is that true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world. so much to that passage . to the third quotation , out of g. fox and r. hubberthorn's book , called , truth 's defence , pag. . i answer . st , that the quoter has wrong'd the passage , and falsified the book ; for there is that quoted which is not there . the words are these , as given by our adversary in the name of g. f. and r. h. we do deny the scriptures to be the word of god , and also to be a standing rule ; and that it is dangerous for ignorant people to read them : see fox and hubberthorn , in truth 's defence , pag. . i answer , all these words [ we do deny the scriptures to be the word of god , and also to be a standing rule ] are not to be found there , they are added ; which is a great piece of injustice ; for the last part , which lies as if we would deny that ignorant people should read the scriptures , hear the words themselves : query . the priest asks , whether the scripture being carnal , and the letter killing , as you ( quakers ) say , we may read them without danger ? to this g. fox and r. hubberthorn answer : the letter which killeth is dangerous ; for thou takest it her to war with against the saints with thy carnal mind and expositions — again thus , here you read with dānger , who speak of them , and speak a lye ; and its dangerous to read that and make a trade of that which the prophets , christ and the apostles spoke forth freely ; and you wrest the scriptures to your destruction ; and to you 't is dangerous to read , &c. now let all people of cander , yea , common sense judge , if this sort of reading and using the scripture be not dangerous : thus the pharisees and iews used the scripture against christ . but does this give ground to our adversary to say , we hold it dangerous for ignorant people to read the scripture , because we say that a covetous , persecuting or malicious end or use of scripture is dangerous ? o the perversion that is made of the words and sense of this passage ! the lord forgive him or them that deal thus with us . hear what the same page says , but i say , blessed is he that doth read and doth understand . this i have else where observed more at large . to the fourth passage , viz. that j. n. in answer to the iews says , it is the devil that contends for the scriptures to be the word of god. i can say the less because i have not the book out of which it is pretended to be quoted . but certain it is , that the devil , that loves not the very form of godliness , but to exalt it against the power , and shelter himself for a saint , has more then once on the same score pleaded for the scripture against christ , and the letter against the spirit ; not that he loveth the scripture , or that the scripture opposeth either christ or the spirit , but that he hath subtilly used the very scripture , as little as he loves it , both to tempt and oppose even christ himself . this is plain in his tempting christ in scripture-language , and in the persecutions of the iews both against christ and his disciples , for which they urged scripture ; they relyed upon them for life eternal , and not upon christ ; him they set at nought then , as much as the false christians sleight his light now . and it was christ's complaint then , in them you think ( said he ) to have eternal life , but you will not come unto me that you may have life . thus the outward iew set up the scripture against christ in the flesh , and thus the outward christian sets up the scripture against christ in the spirit , or in his spiritual appearance in the soul , insomuch that a man runs the hazard of being proclamed a blasphemer that speaks but of christ within , yet it is express scripture ; and of being stigmatized for an heretick that calls christ only that word of god , to whom only that name is given in the evangelical writings , though at the same time a man confess the holy scriptures to be given forth by divine inspiration , and that they are the words of god. that the word is his name john will be our warrant in the beginning of his history ; and that his name is called the word of god iohn also affirms in his revelation . i will end with this , that luke the evangelist in his dedication of his history to his excellent theophilus , now part of the sacred scripture , calls it , a declaration of those things that were most surely believed among them , and not the word of god. we take him for our pattern ; when he is confuted , it will be time enough for us to confess our mistake . to the fifth quotation , viz. that g. fox says , the soul is part of god , of his being , without beginning , and infinite , gr. mystery , p. , ● , . i answer briefly : that g. f. speaks of the divine soul , or life of man , that comes from god , by which man liveth to god , so augustine calls it , anima animae , the soul of the soul , or life of man's soul ; so rabbi nunchmanni and hiskuni , in the comment of paulus fagius take it , saying , it s of the being of god , his own breath . this is without beginning , respecting god , and infinite ; or without end , respecting man. where is the heresie of this ? to the sixth quotation out of the works of g f. junior , viz. we own the scriptures as a true declaration of the saints conditions . i answer , the allegation is frivolous on the side of our adversary ; for he doth not deny what g. f. asserts , nor does g. f. deny but that there are many scriptures which are promissary , threatning and prophetick ; does our owning the scriptures to be an account of the experiences of the saints of god of old time , exclude any farther character ? or say that they are no more ? what! have people lost their senses , or must any thing serve to blemish quakers ; what injustice is here ? for shame do as you would be done by . to the seventh passage , alledged out of geo. whitehead's apology , pag. . viz. that what is spoken from the spirit of truth in any is of as great authority as the scriptures , yea and greater . i answer in g. w's own words , which are these , that which was spoken from the spirit of truth in any is of as great authority as the scriptures or chapters are , and greater , as proceeding immediately from that spirit , as christ's words were of greater authority when he spoke then the pharisees reading the letter ; and they and their speaking we deny : thi● ▪ ●ays he , was my answer . now i appeal to the just witness of god in every conscience , if this adversary was not very disingenuous to take no notice of this distinction : for , in short , two things are in our friend's words ; first , that what comes from the same spirit of truth , is of the same authority ; and who denies that ? no body that is in his senses . next , that what is spoken by the immediate motion , life and power of the spirit , is of more authority ( that is , force and efficacy to move , quicken , enliven or operate upon the hearers ) then the bare reading of a chapter in the scripture , especially by such as the pharisees were , as a letter cannot give that impression which we may justly suppose the lively presence , mind and voice of the person that writ it might . but the end of our adversary plainly is this , to make us undervalue the truth of the scripture , and to debase the authority of the scripture with relation to its verity ; as if what was said now by the spirit of truth in any godly man , were more true then that which was spoken by the same spirit in former ages , which is a gross suggestion . the difference lying in these two things ; ●st , whether christ's words , spoken by his own mouth , were not of greater force , vigour and authority to influence or quicken an auditory , then the same words written and now read . dly , whether the words of christ , when spoken by his own mouth , were not of more life and authority then the scriptures read by the pharisees . the first is true , and much more the last : let this adversary then be ashamed of his injustice . christ said of the words that he spoke , the words that i speak , they are spirit , and they are life ; that is , 〈◊〉 they proceeded from his gracious lips , and as they were uttered from that divine power , glory and authority which dwelt in him . to the eighth quotation , that richard stubbs a quaker should say , that the christ born of the virgin , and that dyed at jerusalem , was a false christ , and an antichrist . i answer , there was never any such man a quaker that i know of , nor did ever any owned by us utter so horrid a blasphemy ; we detest allsuch impiety : besides , the story i suppose came out of an idle pamphlet , printed about seven years since by a foolish person in london , to get money ; a fiction like to that of the island of pines , &c. but if true , where 's the witnesses ? shall the say-so or authority of an enemy prevail ? what must any stuff serve to bedirt the quakers , no matter what , nor from whom ? there is a righteous god that will have the judgment of these things . to the nineth passage cited out of g. f's great mystery , pag. . viz. if there be any other christ then he that is crucified within , he is a false christ . i answer , i have not the book by me , but i will stand by the passage ; for either there is no such thing as a christ within , or if there be , there must be two christs ; or lastly , it is the same christ that suffered without , which is also crucified by sin within . now i leave our adversary to chuse which of these three he will accept of . is there no christ within ? or is there two christs , one within , and another without ? or is there but one christ both without and within ? chuse him whether . but i would tell our adversary , that a christ was revealed in paul , and forming in the hearts of the galatians , and was in the holy antients the hope of glory , and so he is in his people in this day , blessed be the name of the lord. yea , 't was the apostolical exhortation . examine your selves , whether ye be in the faith , prove your own selves : know ye not your own selves , how that jesus christ is in you , except ye be reprobates . so that such as deny christ within are out of the apostolical faith , and reprobates . it was both christ's promise and prayer ; for sayes he to his disciples , let not your hearts be troubled ; ye believe in god , believe also in me . i will not leave you comfortless , i will come to you , i will come again . yet a little while and the world seeth me no more , but ye see me : because i live , ye shall live also : at that day ye shall know , that i am in my father , and you in me , and i in you . that christ prayed for this fellowship is as clear ; neither pray i for these alone , but for them also which shall believe on me through their word ; that they all may be one , as thou father art in me , and i in thee , that they also may be one in us , that the world may believe that thou hast sent me : and the glory which thou gavest me i have given them , that they may be one even as we are one . i in them , and they in me , that they may be made perfect in one : and that the world may know , that thou hast sent me , and hast loved them , as thou hast loved me . o righteous father ! the world hath not known thee , but i have known thee , and these have known that thou hast sent me ; and i have declared unto them thy name , and will declare it , that the love wherewith thou hast loved me , may be in them , and i in them . this is the blessedness of the righteous , even in this world , the true disciples of jesus , that forsake all for his name , that take up his cross daily to their vain affections and lusts , and boldly confess him before all men by a life of true self denyal . o that all people would receive him into their hearts , that is , into their love & affection . : behold he stands at the door and knocks ; shut not thy door upon him ; let him in , entertain him in thy soul , that he may wash thee & cleanse thee by his own spirit , & by his own water , & by his own blood , that bear witness for him on earth , and these three are but one ; then shall the love of god abound in thy soul towards god and towards thy neighbour ; this is christianity indeed : and the truth is , 't is want of christ being known more within people , to purge their hearts , and purifie their consciences , that so much vanity & ungodlines are to be found among christians : people can let the devil be within them , but they will not allow christ to be within them . but i would ask them and you , how the strong man of sin must be bound , that keeps the house ( the heart ) and his works destroyed , if christ , the stronger then he , have not entrance and sway in the conscience ? for this know , that from within proceed evil thoughts , murders , adulteries , fornication , thefts , false witness , blasphemies ; these and such like are the things which defile the man. now , who shall purge this heart , and with what ? must not christ do it , he that baptizes with fire and with the holy ghost , whose fan is in his hand , and who will thorowly purge his floor ? this was john's record , that was sent of god for that end. now let those that call themselves christians , consider seriously and in the fear of god , if their floors , their hearts , be purged , if the dirt and chaff be swept away , if christ's baptism of fire has burnt up their vain thoughts , lusts and affections , or not ; for by fire will god plead with all flesh . and let such consider , if they have been yet baptiz'd with the holy ghost , that makes people alive to god , and whether they live to god , and meditate in his pure law ; or rather if they be not carnally-minded , which is death , let them see if pride don't profess christianity , & if wantonness , vanity , covetousness , passion , envy , wrath , malice , and such like don't make profession of religion , read , pray , preach , go to church , and the like : i say , in the fear of almighty god , let all that profess him and the christian religion examine themselves , and prove themselves , whether jesus christ live in them and rule in them , or another nature , principle and spirit ; for god will not be mocked , such as men sow such must they reap in the terrible day of judgment . to the tenth quotation , out of g. f's way to the kingdom , viz. that the four books of matthew , mark , luke and john are not the gospel . i answer , if this be a piece of heresie , we have good company ; for paul , ignatius , justine martyr , origen , chrisostom , and some of our english martyrs are of this mind . paul sayes , the gospel is the power of god ; but it were blasphemy with a witness to call these four narratives or declarations , the power of god ; in which there are the sayings and actions of the devil and wicked jews and persecutors recorded , as well as the expressions and deeds of christ and his disciples . ignatius , in his epistle to the philadelphians , calleth it very near to paul's expression of the gospel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the perfection of incorruption , which these four books are not , that are composed of paper and letters , containing meer reports and records , though never so true ; or the consequence would be , that the writings of the prophets ( because ignatius saith in the same epistle , that the prophets have anounced and declared the gospel ) are the gospel in our adversaries account , if he receives ignatius , that lived soon after . but it s clear that our adversaries refuse the prophets writings that title , and do not give it even to the apostolical epistles , yet are displeased with our tenderness in not stiling these four books or histories the gospel . when justin martyr speaks of those four books , especially when he citeth out of them the mocking of christ , prophesied of in the psalms , and of christ's silence to pilate , he saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is written and expressed , not in the four evangelists , or in the four evangelia , or in the gospel , or in the writings of the four evangelists , as they do commonly now ; but , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the records or history of his ( christ's ) apostles : yea , he is so far from calling the books of scriptures either the law or gospel , that he saith , christ jesus is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the eternal law and the new testament , which according to the prophecy should come forth to the universal world. chrysostom not only refused an oath , but denyed those four books to be the evangile or gospel , though he refused not to call them , the writings of the four evangelists . so said william thorp , as may be seen in the book of martyrs . besides , the gospel is called , a mystery hid from ages and generations , which four books were not ; and it is still hid from all envious , proud , lustful , vain and evil-minded people . to conclude ; the bible it self declares of the gospel , but is not that gospel ; it declares of the spirit , but is not that spirit ; it declares of the light , but is not that light ; and it declares of the eternal power and word , but it is not that eternal word and power of god : neither is the light , power and spirit in the scripture , though they were in those that gave them forth , and live and abide forever in him , who is the fulness of all wisdom , life and truth , who is lord and author of the holy scriptures given forth by divine inspiration . to the last citation and exception , viz. that g. f. sayes , that we ought not to pray to god to give us a sight of our sins . i answer , that this adversary misgives his words , and suggests by those he cites another thing then is plainly and honestly intended by g. f. in his own words ; they are these , and to you that tempt god and say , the lord give us a sight of our sins ; mark , he speaks to those that tempt god , and let me add , mock god too ; for to such he speaks , as what follows declares , viz. priests and people ( sayes g. f. ) does not the light which christ hath enlightned you with , let you see your sin ? that lying and swearing , cursed speaking , theft , murder , whoredom , covetousness , pride , lust and pleasures , all these things to be the works of the flesh and fruits of darkness ? mark now , this light within you lets you see it , so you need not tempt god to give you a sight of your sins ; for ye know enough , and waiting in the light , power and strength will be given to you . now , let the impartial judge if the consequence of these words be , that we must not pray to god to give us a sight of our sins that we don't see , which must be our enemies suggestion or nothing , or not rather , that we should not tempt and mock god by praying for a sight of our sins , whilest we see , and that there is not a forsaking of the sins that we do already see . i ask , does it follow , that because we should not tempt or mock god in praying for a sight of the sins we have a sight of , and yet don't forsake , that therefore we must not pray to god for a sight of those sins that we have no sight of , having first renounced those we have had a sight of ? well , the lord keep our lives out of the power of a jury that would take this latitude of construction . the following words of that good man are these , and very savoury and christian they are ; for they that wait upon the lord , their strength shall be renewed ( but for what , if not to forsake sin , and serve the lord god ) and living in the light , and walking up to god , it will bring you to true hunger and thirst after righteousness , that you may receive the blessing from god , and give over tempting of god to give you a sight of your sins . and why ? because you see more then you forsake ; forsake what you see , before you pray for more sight ; for all such prayer in such disobedience is a meer mockery , and god will not be mocked : and be it known to all , that god has determined not to hear the prayers of the wicked ; for they are , sayes the prophet , an abomination unto him . this yet appears to be his sense by the following paragraph ; and to all ye that say , god give us grace and we shall refrain from our sin ; there ye have got a tempting customary word ; for the free grace of god has appeared to all men , and this is the grace which shews you ungodliness and worldly lusts : now , thou that livest in ungodliness , lying , and swearing , and theft , and murder , and drunkenness , and filthy pleasures , and lusting after the world , thou art he that turns the free grace of god into wantonness , and casts his laws behind thy back , and walkest despightfully against the spirit of grace . oh vain man ! yet thou canst say , god is merciful , and live in thy wickedness , passing on thy time without the fear of god , sporting thy self in thy wickedness . what think you now ? does this man say , the people ought not to pray for a sight of their sins , which they see not in order to repentance , or can he mean so ? let candor speak . for that i said before must be the meaning of this adversary , or he means nothing , because in the other sense all must grant that men ought not to tempt , provoke and mock god by praying for a fight , when they have it and don 't use it . what then is the conclusion of this matter ? why plainly this , that from g. f. saying , that those who say the lord give us a sight of our sins , that have a sight of them already and forsake them not , do therein tempt god : this enemy of ours , makes no scruple of conscience to infer and conclude that g. f. says , that we ought not to pray to god to give us a sight of our sins at all , without any regard to the distinction of having the sight already , be it that such have forsaken what god has given them a sight of , or that they have sins they have yet no sight of , yet g. f. says , we must not pray for a sight of our sins , if this adversary may be credited . well , the lord god almighty , who is the searcher of all hearts , knows the end of this person in writing and spreading these calumnies and perversions , and with him i leave him and his work , but so , as that i sincerely desire , that he may have a sight of his sin against god and an harmless people , if he acts ignorantly ; and that he may sincerely repent , and find mercy with the lord , if he acts maliciously , before he goes bence and be no more seen ; for it s not a sleight thing to mischarge , and that so peremptorily too , an entire people , about matters of the world that is without end . i shall conclude this defence with these three things , the first is , that most of the opinions he calls ours are not so evinced , or so much as attempted to be proved by the author of the libel against us . dly , those that are endeavoured to be fastened on us , have not their due proof , one person it may be is produced to make good a charge against a body of people ; would our adversaries be thus used ? would they be concluded by the word or act of any one member of their numerous communion ? certainly no : besides , the proofs that are brought , are some lame , others perverted , and some forged , which looks very dishonourable on the part of our accuser , first to mis-charge , then mis-cite , and lastly wrack words , well intended , to extort , if possible , a consession of guilt : but the truth is , error can only be maintained by error , and therefore there is no wonder in the case . this is the usage we have mostly met with put thanks be to god we are neither surprized nor unqrepared . lastly , i do hereby offer a fair and free conference with the author or authors of the libel , or any other that can soberly pretend to a conscientious dissatisfaction about our faith or practice , at such time as shall be mutually agreed upon to be convenient . and this i offer , not out of vanity or oftentation , but in duty to god my great lord and master , and in good will to all such persons ; and did not these considerations prevail , and carry me to this condescention , my manifold affairs and the many and large books i have already writ on occasion of these and the like imputations , would have disswaded me from any fresh undertaking of this nature , and sufficiently guarded me against all reflections upon my silence . i am a friend to mankind william penn. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ‖ this was the doctrine of luther , zwinglius , calvin , oecolampadius , beza and marlorat abroad ; and of w. tindal , d. barns , john frith , john bradford , j. woodman , philpot , fox , jewel , whittiker , &c. at home , that the scriptures authority to us stood in the inward testimony of the spirit of god. see my quakerism a new nick-name for old christianity , and my rejoynder in defence of the same , from pag. . to pag. . and from pag. . to pag. . gal. . . rom. . . jer. . , . hebr. . . tim. . , , . chap. . , , , , . gal. . , , . luke . , , , . joh. . . cor. . , , , , . rev. . . acts . . tim. . . rom. . . john . . tim. . , . heb. . . chap. . . rom. . . heb. . . john . . mat. . . james . . john . . chap. . , . chap. . . mat. . . cor. . , . john . . john . . proverbs . . isa . . . chap. . . rom. . , . . john . , . cor. . . john ● . . gen. . . gen. . . & . . job . . matthew . . thessal . . . ephes . . . timoth. . . heb. . . & . . pet. . . john . . chap. . . chap. . . chap. . , , . chap . , . chap. . ver . , , , . mat. . . john . . acts . , . jer. . , . iob . . genesis . . mat. . , . iohn . . and . . & . , . iohn . . revel . . . luke chap. . iohn . . gal. . . & . . cor. . . john . , , , , . chap. . , , , , , . matthew . . chap . . mark . . luke . . revelat. . . john . . matthew . . chap. . , . chap. . , . rom. . . ephes . . . & . . col. . . tim. . . psalm . . prov. . . isa . . , , . the word of the lord god almighty that liveth for ever, and ever, to all persecutors, who are dead, though yet alive, upon the face of the whole earth: that so they may hear, fear, and repent, before it be too late. west, thomas, of hertford. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the word of the lord god almighty that liveth for ever, and ever, to all persecutors, who are dead, though yet alive, upon the face of the whole earth: that so they may hear, fear, and repent, before it be too late. west, thomas, of hertford. p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. signed at end: tho. west. written in my prison, the th. of the th. month, commonly called july, in the year of the lord, . this was first written in the year, . and is now given forth to be published all abroad through the nations of the earth, as the lord makes way for it. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . repentance -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the word of the lord god almighty , that liveth for ever , and ever , to all persecutors , who are dead , though yet alive , upon the face of the whole earth : that so they may hear , fear , and repent , before it be too late ▪ what are ye ; what ye ; o ye , sons of men , you are but dust , from the dust you came , and to the dust you mu●● return again ; against whom , do you sport your ●elves even against me , saith the lord of host , you are ●oding your heads , and blearing out your tongues , gaping with a wide mouth , shaking your hands , and crying , ha , ha , ha , the day i● now our own : are you not children of adultery , and a seed of the evil doers , and dissimulation ? alas , alas , for you , that you should be so blind , to think the lord doth not see you , in your wicked corruptible wayes , and vain imaginations . o all ye mighty men upon the face of the whole earth ; o ye kings , and rulers all , how long will you , plot and consult , conspirings in your own hearts , and minds , taking counsel together , against the lord and his anointed . o when , will ye leave off your works of vanity ; when shall it once be ? or do you , think the lord doth not see you , in your great wickedness , and privy conspiracy ? in vain do you strive against your maker , who is arisen , and arising , to execute vengeance upon you all , who have erred , and are erring from his wayes , and certainly , if you do not repent with speed , and put a stop , to the great wickedness , that is in your hands and hearts to do , against the lord , and his chosen heritage , he will arise , in the dread of his almighty power , and will throw you down , from your high places , and seats of glory , where you have exalted your selves , above all that have been called god : yea verily , he will tumble you down , from your thrones of majesty , and finally destroy your honours , and so will lay all your glory amongst your shame for evermore . for i have heard , i have heard , i have heard ( saith the lord , even the almighty god ) the fightings , and groanings of my people , that have been , and yet are greatly oppressed , under the hands of hard task-masters , and i am come down to deliver them ; and if you will not let them go free , according to my word , to serve me , in the land of liberty , which i have prepared for them , quite contrary to all rebellious persecutors , upon the face of the whole earth : then know this assuredly , i will bring all my plagues and iudgements upon you , whatsoever i have threatned against you , and there is none shall be able to deliver you ; nay but you shall be dashed and scattered all to pieces , ( o all ye potsherds ) and shall be made like the dung upon the face of the earth , and as chaff before the whirl-wind of my wrath , and like the stubble before the fire of my jealousie , which is kindled like hot burning coals , and shall consume you all , that are lifting up a hand against me , and my royal s●ed , and chosen heritage , the which i will crown with great glory , majesty , and everlasting dominion , far above and over all the kings and rulers upon the face of the whole earth . wherefore now , thus saith the high and lofty one , that inhabiteth eternity , whose dwelling is on high , far above all the sons of men , yea verily , i dwell high above , and in the sanctuary , whose name is holy , pure , living , and eternal , and will be exalted over all ; i have a secret service to do , for my own oppressed precious seed sake , which shall be fulfilled in your sight ; and certainly , i can never forget my faithful promise made to it ; but i must come and perform it when my purpose is accomplished , and my will fulfilled , concerning its sufferings , even as i did for my people israel , in the dayes of old , when they were under hard-hearted pharaoh , and his wicked task-masters ; and then , wo , wo , wo , to all you wicked rebellious persecutors , who are found fighting against god , in persecuting his dearly beloved people and children , that have , and do believe in his name : sure i am , the lord is bringing and preparing a sharp scourge to whip you all , who have so highly provoked him , with so often transgressing against his righteous law , in not doing to every man , as ye would all men should do unto you : for i have seen a dreadful day near to come upon all persecutors ; yea verily , a terrible stormy day , a day of fire and smoak , a day of thundering and lightning , a day of blackness and darkness , a day of storms and tempests , a day of earth-quakes , a day of battelings , of shakings and quakings , a day of trembling and howling , a day of distress of nations , a day of dread and terrour , and all faces shall be pale and wan ; yea verily , a day of the sound of the trumpet , and an alarm to the battel : and this is a certain sound from the last trump , that ever shall be sounded in your ears , before your destruction come upon you , and it shall be louder and louder , with more dreadful and terrible afrightments , until the hearts of men shall fail them for fear , for the mountains shall be covered with fire and smoak , and all the whole world shall tremble ; and then shall god most wonderfully appear , and in the majesty of his power shall he go before us , who is our general and living commander for evermore ; yea verily , and all the chariots and horse-men of israel , are on our side already : ah the lord open your eyes that you may see clearly , who is with us ; behold the mountains are full of fiery chariots round about us , and they are more that are with us , then all that shall be able to come against us , and now we fear not all the armies of the philistines ; nay though gog and magog should gather together against us , yet we being the noble army of the lamb , whose weapons are not carnal nor temporal , but spiritual and eternal , even mighty through god that strengthens us , to the pulling down the strong holds of sin and satan . and ( he now before us our leader and captain ) do you think you can overcome us ? i tell you nay : and if you do think you can , yet your thoughts are but vain , who are but like t●● poor caterpillers and grashoppers before our god ; and what are all those able to do against him ? o ye heaps of muck and mire , what will you still heap , what , heap upon heap ? gods plagues will scatter you all abroad , his vengeance will cut you down , and make you become a filthy stinking savour upon the face of the whole earth , you wicked persecutors , even all you that are causing poor harmless people , for their tender conscience sake ( and for no other thing ) to be stocked , stoned , whiped , imprisoned , hanged , burned , or any other shameful tyrannical death most barbarously and bloodily , beyond all expression . o ye murderers and men-slayers , ye have eat my peoples flesh , ( saith the lord ) and drank their blood , even as an ox drinketh water ; what are ye not fat enough yet ! i tell you , ye are almost all fit for the slaughter , ( o ye bruit beasts of the field ) and then shall my slaughtering ax come upon you all , yea verily there shall not one of you escape that is found without true repent●nce , therefore o ye kings and rulers all , hear , o hear , yea dread , tremble and fear , for god hath spoken , and i cannot but prophesie in his name to all wicked and ungodly persecutors to whom this may reach wheresoever it cometh , except you are sealed unto condemnation , and your consciences be seared as with a hot iron ; behold your downfal is near , your destruction is at hand , therefore be warned and awakened to repentance before it be too late , and if you will not be awakened , and hear this deep cry and call ( that is from and through the holy seed ) then know this from god that liveth for ever and ever , neither will you hear , if one should arise from the dead , or if an angel should be sent from heaven ; so then you may proceed and go on in that wicked rebellious barbarous murdering persecuting spirit for a little time , that may be suffered until the measure of your iniquities be wholly filled up , and the day of your tender visitation be ended in your rending , tearing , ravanous devouring nature , that 's worse then the dogs and swine , or any of the bruit beasts of the field . but yet know this from god , and be ye assured , it is even so from the mouth of the lord god , in his own living commandement of life and power , and shall be fulfilled in its season ; gods dreadful vengeance hangeth over the heads of you all , and is ready to be poured down upon you , and there shall be no way found for you to escape it , if you do not spedily repent from the bottom of your hearts , and turn to the lord our god with weeping and with fasting , and rend your hearts , and not your garments : yea , turn , turn , turn , from the evil of all your wayes and doings , and so learn to do that which is lawful , just , right in the sight of the pure righteous god , in whose presence you are all naked and bare , to whom you must all give up your accompts , and the time is near at hand ; for behold heaven and earth is the lord god almighty calling together to witness against you , and all the blood of his holy martyrs , saints and servants that hath been shed from the beginning of the world , until this very day , ever since the blood of righteous abel , until the blood of zacharias , with iames parniel , marmaduke stevenson , william robinson , mary dyer , ( one of which was most barbarously imprisoned until death in england , and the other three were hanged in new england , the stain of whose innocent blood will never be wiped away , except you deeply repent and timely return to the lord who is able to forgive the chiefest of sinners ) the which innocent lambs dyed for the testimony of iesus christ , and for no other thing : and farthermore , let all goals and prisons witness against you for ever ; how many of the righteous servants of the lord have bin imprisoned until death in them , whose innocent blood cries very loud to the lord god of heaven and earth for vengeance against you all : and do you not think the weight of all the innocent blood will not be too heavy for you to bear ? yes verily , it will be too heavy for you all , and shall for evermore lie as a burthensom stone upon your heads , until it hath pressed & weighed you down into the nethermost pit of eternal destruction , which is the burning fiery flaming lake prepared for the devil and his angels , even tophet , which was prepared of old ; yea verily , it was prepared for the king ( as saith the scriptures , isa. . . ) and it is deep and very large , the burning thereof is fire and much wood , and the breath of the lord like a river of brimstone doth set it on fire . mark well , and behold where the portion of all wicked kings and rulers is ( and for ever shall be ) that leave this world without repentance . therefore hear , o hear and give ear ye foolish kings and rulers all , yea i say , he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear what the spirit saith , i that am the lords faithful servant and true prophet , to you all , whose face he hath set as a flint against you , because of truth and righteousness ; hath also made my life strong as a walled city , even double walled , like walls of steel , with gates of brass , hath commanded me to cry aloud ; yea verily , as loud as ever i can call and cry , to set before you your sins and great wickedness , which are all come in remembrance before god ; yea verily , the stinking savour of them hath reached heaven , and are so loathsom in the nostrils of the lord , that he hath prepared in his wrathful indignation , a way to destroy you all , and there shall be no way found for you to escape the stroak of his heavy hand , but by turning every man of you from the evil of his wayes and doings , and so live to do that which is equal , lawful , just and right in the sight of the pure god , and with speed put a full stop to all the wickedness that is in your hearts and hands , to do against the lord and his innocent people and children that fear him , and tremble at his word , and dare not break the least of his commandments ; or else this know assuredly , you shall be dashed and scattered all to pieces , and your names shall be rooted out , both root and branch for evermore , ( in the name of the lord i have spoken it , who have stayed so long that i can stay no longer , and have borne so long that i can bear no longer , my lord and master having charged all your blood upon me , except i warn you betimes ) and now do you think you are able to withstand god , or are you able to joyn battel with him , and over throw him ; well if you judge you are of ability thus to do , then go on and gather your armies together , prepare your chariots , and make ready your horse-men , arm your selves as well as you may , get ready as soon as you can , and come forth with all the strength and might you have . but yet , wo , and alas for you , poor foolish vain men , ah , what will all this avail you ; why know this from god , that liveth for ever and ever , all them things will be but in vain for you to put confidence in ; for strong and mighty is he , even the wonderful conqueror ( iehovah by name ) who can subdue and overcome all his enemies , whensoever he pleaseth , who is the mighty god , the lord of host , and god of battels that you are going to encounter withal , yea , he will be too strong for all his enemies who presume to fight against him ; therefore leave off your work , vain men , and cease striving any farther in your own wicked wills and vain imaginations , against him who is too mighty for you , all , and can , and will over-turn you , whensoever he pleaseth . now therefore consider it ( o ye sons of men ) yea , weigh it in the due consideration of your minds , even the deep cry of the guiltless innocent blood , that is all charged upon you , ever since the blood of righteous abel , to this very day , who are found persecuting the innocent about religion and worship ; and with speed repent and turn every one of you , from the evil of your wayes ( or else reade your portions , as god hath before proclaimed it by me in his own eternal spirit ) and think not to escape the plagues and iudgements , wrath and vengeance of the almighty god : for certainly it will come upon you , except you speedily repent : for i have heard the dreadful terrible cry of all the guiltless innocent blood of the slain martyrs , prophets , saints and servants of the most high god , that have been slain for the testimony of jesus christ , from under the altar , saying , how long , o lord , righteous , holy , just , and true , will it be , ere thou arise and revenge our blood upon them that dwell upon the face of the earth ? and there is a voice in secret hath answered , wait but a very little longer , until the rest of your brethren be gathered unto you ( and it be all fulfilled ) that must suffer also for the testimony of jesus , and then shall it be fulfilled and wholly accomplished : and will you not yet hear , o ye rebellious ones , who are like fat full-fed horses , each one of you naying after his neighbours wife , not having the fear of god before your eyes , who are drinking wine in bowls , and making merry over god's witness in you ( that which you have slain and crucified ; ) and yet in this thing , i charge no man , or men , but this i proclaim ( and that from god , who searcheth all hearts , and trys all reins , and shall be exalted over all his enemies , whoremongers and adulterers , swearers , lyars , drunkards , chamberers , wantons , and all manner of vain light persons , whatsoever , their guilty conscience needs no other accuser . ) so thou that reads this , if thou art guilty , thou wilt be accused in thine own heart , mind and conscience , if thou art not seared as with a fire-brand of hell , and sealed down in the deep pit of eternal destruction , where thou shalt never see the light any more ; and when thou art judged and condemned within , then there is no man or men can be able to save or justifie thee without . so this pure light ( wherein there is life to be found ( that is able to bring all out of death and the fall ) that discovers all the dark deeds of iniquity , and rips up the heart , and layes open all thy wickedness that ever thou hast done , even that which lighteth every man that is come into the world , so that none can be hidden or hide any thing from it : unto this , only , all are to be turned that desires to be saved , which is indeed the way of life and salvation , and leads to know peace with god , for their immortal souls , which is , and will be , the desire of all nations , people , kindreds , countries , tongues and languages , upon the face of the whole earth , one time or other , whether kings , rulers or governours , or whosoever else , the light only is the true saviour , to all that want or seek after a saviour , for their poor souls , even that which checks and reproves , and also convinces the worst of sinners , pricking you in your hearts after you have dnoe wickedly : o do not kick against those pretious pricks , but alwayes turn in your minds to its gentle reproofs , for that very same is he , that is come to be salvation to the ends of the earth , to as many as lay hold of him by a true and lively faith , without any wavering , and there is not any other saviour : so when any one amongst you , is pricked to the heart , by the witness of god in your own particulars , o then you are to take good heed to that , which pricks you within , and not to turn away from it , but alwayes wait upon god in it . and again , when you are checked , then you are to take heed to that which checks you ; and when you are secretly reproved , within , you are not to be high minded , but fear , and bow low down to that which doth reprove you , and of that learn at all times how to deny your selves , and so take up the cross against your own selves , and wills , and thus forsake all the vanities of this present evil world , or else you can never have any part in christ jesus , or in the kingdom of heaven : and here is the true and perfect way for you all , to hate the evil , and come out from amongst it , and so to chuse that which is good , and do it all times , even to every man , as you would all men should do unto you ; that so god may shew mercy unto you , and deal favourably with you . and here in the deep sence of this thing , you cannot but love god above all things , and your neighbour as your own selves , and the same measure of grace being received in each particular , even as it is freely given of god ( so that all may thereby be profited to life eternal ) when obedience is yielded thereto ; in singleness , and uprightness of heart , will lead all men to love mercy , and do justly , and walk humbly before the lord all the dayes of their lives . so here all men may come and deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and walk soberly and righteously before god , and so live godly in christ jesus , in this present evil world ; so now when you are sufficiently warned , i shall be clear of all your blood , and can leave you to your own master , and if you will not hear , but still forbear , your blood be upon your own heads for evermore . all glory , and honour , and power , and dominion , with majesty and everlasting renown to the noble , worthy honourable name of our powerful lord god ; world without end , amen . halelujah . so then all emperours , kings and princes , with all other rulers whatsoever , upon the face of the whole earth , shall be bowed down , and then god alone shall be exalted in the highest , and reign over all , who only is worthy , worthy , worthy ; world without end . even so be it , saith the spirit in tho. west . written in my prison , the th . of the th . month , commonly called july , in the year of 〈…〉 , . this was first written in the year , . and is now given forth to be published all abroad through the nations of the earth , as the lord makes way for it . the end . the true christ owned as he is, true god and perfect man containing an answer to a late pamphlet having this title the quakers creed concerning the man christ jesus &c. writ by a nameless author : which pamphlet containeth many gross lies and wilful perversions beside some other great mistakes occasioned by the author his ignorance and blindness / by george keith. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the true christ owned as he is, true god and perfect man containing an answer to a late pamphlet having this title the quakers creed concerning the man christ jesus &c. writ by a nameless author : which pamphlet containeth many gross lies and wilful perversions beside some other great mistakes occasioned by the author his ignorance and blindness / by george keith. keith, george, ?- . , [ ] p. s.n.], [london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng jesus christ -- natures. quakers creed concerning the man christ jesus. society of friends -- apologetic works. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the true christ owned , as he is true and perfect god man. containing an answer to a late pamphlet , having this title , the quakers creed , concerning the man christ jesus , &c. writ by a nameless author . which pamphlet containeth many gross lies , and wilful perversions : beside some other great mistakes , occasioned by the author his ignorance and blindness . by george keith . printed in the year , . the true christ owned , as he is true and perfect god , and true and perfect man. pamphlet . transcribed verbatim out of a treatise entituled , the way cast up . ans. the false-hood of this shall plainly appear to any who readeth my book , how that the author hath omitted many particulars of great moment , that are necessary , for the reader to understand the whole , beside the many arguments , made use of in my book , to prove the truth of what i have affirmed ; which he hath not so much as once named , onely he hath taken notice of some few , wherein he thought he could find any advantage , but that he is therein also disappointed , the following answer , i hope shall make sufsiciently apparent . pamplet . animadversion , . the quakers from hence believe , that christ had a manhood differing in nature , srom the man-hood of all other men , contrary to heb. . . ans. he hath given no answer to my argument from cor. . , , . that proveth that christ as man , excelleth all other men , in nature and substance , as the most high heavens do excel the low earth ; but only to oppose this , he bringeth that scripture , heb. . . which yet doth nothing oppose what i have affirmed ; for granting , that heb. . . proveth , that christ hath the same nature of all other men , in respect of all the essentials of man's nature , and that he had all belonging to man's nature , which adam had , before the fall , ( although more is to be understood in heb. . . ) all this doth not prove , that he hath not somewhat more belonging to his nature , as he is the heavenly man , than adam had ; but indeed , on the contrary , it proveth very clearly , that he had more , which is implyed in these words , he that sanctifieth ; for christ the heavenly man , the second adam , doth sanctify the earthly man , or first adam , as he believeth in him , and giveth him life , both to soul and body , even life immortal ; and therefore he hath a more excellent nature , which is heavenly and divine , than the first adam had ; for that which sanctifyeth and quickeneth , is more excellent , than that which is sanctifyed and quickened thereby ; but it behoved him to partake of the true nature of all other men , in all essentials , which therefore , accordingly he hath done , according unto heb. . . forasmuch then , as the children are partakers of flesh and blood , he also himself took part of the same : and ver . . for he took not on him angels , but the seed of abraham . but , that more is to be understood also , by these words of one , heb. . . is manifest , because he that sanctifyeth , and they who are not sanctifyed , but remain in their unbelief and ungodliness , are not said to be of one. nor doth christ call the unbelievers his bretheren , but only them that believe , and are sanctifyed by him : christ therefore , and true believers , are of one , because they are united together by a mutual participation of the nature of each other ; so that as christ the heavenly man , doth partake of the flesh and blood of the children , they also partake of his flesh and blood , and become one flesh with him according to eph. . , . and therefore , as he doth partake of the nature of men , so these men who do believe in him , are partakers of his divine nature , who is the heavenly man , and of god through him , according to pet. . . compared with cor. . . and john . . moreover , that the man christ jesus , hath a nature excelling all other men , as much as the heavens do excel the earth ; see also john . , , , , . and compare it with cor. . , . pamphlet . animad . . they believe from hence , that the word was made flesh , or man , before the creation of this world , contrary to gal. . . pet. . . ans. these scriptures prove nothing contrary to my assertion , for they are only to be understood of his outward coming , when he took flesh in the virgins womb , and came in the likeness of sinful flesh ; now i do not say , that he took that outward flesh from the beginning , but only at that time : but he , namely , the heavenly adam himself , was from the beginning , and was the word made flesh , and gave unto the saints srom the beginning , his flesh to eat , and his blood to drink , otherwise they could not have had life in them , according to john . pamphlet , animadversion . the quakers have found out another kind of flesh , besides these four sorts , cor. . . ans. here thou seemest rather to mock , than to argue in good earnest . but what i have affirmed of the heavenly flesh and blood of christ , which he had from the beginning , is no invention , nor fiction of ours , but grounded on the scriptures testimony , and also on our own blessed experience : for that flesh and blood of christ , which he had from the beginning , is the food and nourishment of our souls unto eternal life , as it was also the food and nourishment of the souls of all that believed in him , from the beginning of the world ; for all before , and after his outward coming in that body of flesh , did eat the same spiritual meat , and drink the same spiritual drink ; for they drank of the rock , &c. and that rock was christ , cor. . but when the apostle is speaking of four kinds of flesh , he is only speaking of the flesh of terrestrial , or earthly bodies ; but not of the flesh of christ that came down from heaven ; which indeed , is none of these four sorts , but hath a more excellent nature : for all these four sorts are but natural and corruptible , but the flesh of christ is spiritual and incorruptible : and as touching the words of grotius , cited by thee , flesh is not understood by the hebrews , but of the mortal body ; it is easily answered , by taking the word literally , without any metaphor or figurative speech ; but if we take it figuratively , it hath other significations . for how oft is all mankind comprehending both soul and body , called flesh in scripture , and yet the soul is not the mortal body ? but how little hast thou considered , how if thou stand unto the words of grotius , thou hast given a stone to break thy own head ? for if nothing is to be called flesh , but the mortal body ; then the body of the resurrection , namely , both christ , his body , & also the resurrection - body of the saints , is not properly flesh , because not a mortal body . pamphlet . animad . . the apostles frequently speak of things to come , as present ; as well might the author say , that cyrus had a soul and body , and did exist in flesh and blood , an hundred years before he was born ; for he is called by isaiah , gods anointed , before his birth , isaiah . . ans. if this be not gross socinianisme , and samosatenianisme , i leave unto all understanding and sound christians for to judg : for both the socinians now , and samosatenians of old , denyed that christ was before mary ; and so doth this author , contrary to the express . testimony of many scriptures cited and opened in my book called , the way cast up ; to which again , i refer the reader : and what a gross and unchristian , yea , blasphemous comparison is this of the author , betwixt cyrus and christ , as if christ were no more gods anointed before his outward birth in the flesh , than cyrus , was before his birth ; and so by this means , all the saints from the beginning of the world unto the outward birth of christ , containing near about four thousand years , had no christ , nor no saviour , no head , no mediator ; nor indeed , nothing of the heavenly and spiritual anointing or unction ; and so had nothing of the holy ghost , which is that anointing : for how could they have it without christ , who is gods anointed , originally and first of all , and from , and by , and through whom , it cometh down , and is conveyed unto the saints , even as the oyl that was poured on aarons head , ran down from the beard unto the skirts of his garment : now that david and all the saints , before christ came in the flesh , were in measure anointed with the holy unction , or anointing ; even the same wherewith the saints are now anointed : see psal. . and psal. . , . and how did they receive this oyl or anointing , but from christ , who is gods anointed first of all , and by whom it descendeth unto them , of whom aaron the high priest , was the figure or type ; & therefore christ was gods anointed from the beginning , not only before cyrus , but before all other men , according unto prov , . . i was anointed from the beginning , ( so the hebrew word nissakti , doth signifie , as i have already shewed in my book ) or ever the earth was . moreover , when paul said , the fathers of old , drank of the rock , and that rock was christ , was this only a prophecy of christ ? who , but one so blind and grosly ignorant , as the author of this pamphlet , can so affirm ? nor , do thefe scriptures cited by thee , mat. . . luk. . . concerning christ his being anointed with the holy ghost , after his outward birth , prove , that he was not anointed before : for , in contradiction to thy self , thou grantest , he was anointed before he was born ; as indeed he was both then , and also from the beginning . the fifth animad . hath nothing in it of argument , against what i have affirmed ; only he perverteth some of my words , as the reader may fee , by comparing his words and mine together ; and this he often ufeth , not willing to suffer my words to stand as they are , but seeking to vail and darken them , with his perverse minglings and additions . pamphlet , animad . . they believe that the man christ , did suffer , was slain , and crucified , when our first parents sinned ; and doth suffer , is slain , and crucified , as often as man sins , and apostatise , contrary to heb. . . and pet. . that testifie that the man christ jesus , was personally and really slain , crucified and offered for sin but once ; the other is but either in decree , promise , type , or metaphor . ans. these scriptures are only to be understood of christ , his sufferings in the body of flesh ; so that he did but once die and suffer for sin , in the outward body , and in his outward person , which doth not hinder , but that he suffered and was slain , inwardly and spiritually , in mens hearts by sin , both before and since he suffer'd in the body of flesh , which was crucified at jerusalem : for the writer to the hebrews , did tell of those that fell away , that they crucify to themselves the son of god afresh , heb. . . and if thou saist , this is but in the metaphor ; i answer , admitting it in a sense so to be , yet a real suffering is implyed under that metaphor ; as also , when the spirit is said to be quenched , somewhat real is understood under that metaphor ; and so in the present case , although the slaying and crucifying of christ , may be said to be a metaphor , or figurative speech , yet some real suffering analogous in some true respect unto what he did suffer in the outward , is thereby understood ; and that i did acknowledge a metaphor in that expression , is clear by my very words cited by thee , where i say , the measure of the life of the lamb , came to be slain , as it were in them , by transgrefsion ; here the words as it were signifie a metaphor , which yet hindereth not , that the suffering of this innocent life of christ , was real , according unto its own kind and nature . pamphlet . animad . . in answer to amos . . he saith , as well might they say , that god as god hath now , and had then , such eyes , ears , feet , hands , as we have ; for the scripture speaks of him frequently , after that manner . ans. i no where read in all the scripture , that god hath such eyes , ears , feet and hands , as we have ; fo that in this , thou dost grosly pervert the scripture it self : for , although the scripture speaketh at times , of gods eyes , ears , feet and hands , yet they are not said to be such , as ours ; and though these words are metaphorical , they have also somewhat that is real , understood by them by way of analogy ; his eyes , signifying his infinit knowledg ; and his hands , his power , &c. and although i do also acknowledg , that the words amos . . are metaphorical , yet a real suffering is implyed under them , which is the suffering of the spirit of christ , as he is the heavenly man , & lamb of god ; for , in that respect only , he doth or can suffer , properly ; nor is it any contradiction , or inconsistency , as thou seemest to make it , that the same life ; or spirit of christ , may be alive in it self , and yet slain or crucified , as to the sinner , no more than it is any contradiction or inconsistency , that the soul is , as it were , dead unto the dead body , in which it lived ; and yet remaineth alive in it self , even when it is in the body , as it was in the case of eutichus whom paul raised from the dead , acts . . in his animad . . he bringeth no new matter , but what my former answer doth give a sufficient reply unto ; for the words , rom. . . are to be understood of christ his being raised from the dead in that body wherein he suffered ; so that he died no more , as in the head , no , nor yet in many of the members ; in whom that precious life of christ , shall never any more , be slain or quenched : but it cannot be so said of all , seeing some may fall away , and crucify him afresh , unto themselves . pamphlet , animad . . in answer to my arguments from some places of scripture in the old testament , thou sayest , by the same way of arguing , christ did from the beginning , really take upon him angelical nature , as well as mans nature . ans. that nature which christ did take from the beginning , did and doth excel in its very being , the nature , both of all men , and also of all the most glorious angels ; and yet , according unto the same nature , he is somtimes called angel , and somtimes man ; angel there , not signifying the common nature of angels , but only his high office and dignity thereof ; for angel is , as to say , messenger , or one that is sent : and therefore it doth not follow from this , that christ took on him the common nature of angels , as he did the seed of abraham , when he was born the son of david according to the flesh. and thy other instance concerning the man riding upon a red horse , is no less impertinent ( zech. . , ) for although some places of scripture , have only an allegorical sense , it followeth not , that none have a proper ; and the proper sense is to be kept , where nothing doth perswade unto the contrary ; as indeed nothing doth perswade to the contrary , in the present case ; but many things concurr together to establish the true and proper sense . pamphlet , animad . . here he bringeth forth no matter of argument , but onely some queries , which i might altogether wave ; yet for the sake of others , i shall say that which may suffice unto any sober enquirer : and to the first , i say , this life and spirit of the man-hood of christ , is one with the holy ghost , by an oneness of union , even as the man christ , is one with god ; but as the holy ghost doth signify the spirit of god , simply considered , the spirit of christ , as man , is distinct from the holy ghost , as really as the man-hood of christ , is distinct from the god-head , but not divided , or separated there-from . to the second i answer , that the spirit of christ , as he is the heavenly man , is not properly a creature , but only as it is taken improperly , & largely , for a divine production & emanation ; but properly , it is rather an emanation or generation , than a creation . to the third i say , a spiritual body , can well enough penetrate another that is , either , not spiritual ; or if spiritual , yet not in that degree , as the other . now , when i say , according unto the scripture , that christ had spiritual flesh and blood from the beginning , wherewith he fed the saints ; by that flesh and blood , i mean a spiritual body , in the highest degree : and how one body more spiritual , can penetrate another , in a less degree , we have a figure , or shaddowy resemblance , in the outward light , that doth easily penetrate , both christal and air . to the fourth , i say , it is very easiy to conceive , how christ is called the second adam , although , as man , he was before adam , who is called the first man : namely , in respect of the outward birth in the flesh , and also , in some respect , in the inward birth , of christ in us , when we are regenerated and made new creatures , in him : for commonly , the first birth , which is of the nature of the first adam , as in the fall , hath place in men , before christ the second birth be formed in them ; and yet christ himself and his spirit , life and soul , as he is the heavenly man , was and is before adam and all creatures , the first and the last ; of whom john said , there cometh a man after me , which is preferred unto me , for he was before me : and thus , according to solomons advice in the proverbs , i have answered the fool in his folly , lest he should seem wise in his own eyes . pamphlet . animad . . here he bringeth no argument , but only querieth , and seeketh to ensnare ; but i am aware of his serpentine cunning , and can easily escape it by the grace of god , which is given unto me : and whereas he laboureth to bring g. f. younger , and me , into a contradiction , his work is vain ; for according to g. f. i say , the true eternal god , is light , and that light is in us : but god doth shine in us , in christ the heavenly man , or second adam , who is in us ; for god was , and still is , in christ , reconciling the world unto himself . again , whereas thou sayst , by way of query , was the man that appeared frequently to the patriarches , without the spring of this soul and life of christ. i answer , nay ; for that man was christ , even the same that afterwards came in the flesh of the virgin mary : and whereas thou sayst , let them produce one scripture , and they shall carry it , where it is said , the man or man-hood became flesh , it saith , the word was made flesh ; i answer , these words , the word was made flesh , cannot be restricted , or limited to the outward birth of christ in the flesh ; for the word was made flesh from the beginning ; which flesh was the saints food in all ages ; and the word made flesh dwelt in them , according to joh. . . the word was made flesh , and dwelt in us ; for so the greek doth bear it , and so was it translated , by divers of them called the fathers . but that christ the heavenly man , took part of flesh and blood with the children , see heb. . . and that this he , who did so partake with men of flesh and blood , was not god ; separately , and abstractly considered ; but god in union with the heavenly man-hood , and soul of christ , is clear , from other scriptures , as cor. . . joh. . . joh. . . now these words , joh. . . i came down from heaven , not to do mine own will ; most clearly signifie , that the soul of christ came down from heaven , to take flesh ; for god simply considered , could not say , i came down from heaven , not to do my own will , for god always doth his own will , which being most holy , is a law , both unto christ the heavenly man , and also unto all others : this scripture with many others , i did bring , in my book , the way cast up , for proof of what i have affirmed , whereof thou hast taken no notice , so as to give any reply . but lastly , whereas thou sayst , in this twelve animadversion , in the next quotation , mark , he saith , as man he was the son of god ; at which thou art offended : it seemeth therefore , that this is no part of thy creed , viz. that christ as man , was the son of god , even when born of the virgin mary ; but if thou denyest this , i ask thee , who was the father of christ , as he was man , but god ? for if he had another father , then he was not born of the virgin : which , if this be not rampant blasphemy , for any called a christian to affirm , i leave unto all true christians for to judge : or if thou denyest , that christ was the son of god before he was born in the flesh , thou art guilty of gross socinianisme , and contradictest the scriptures testimony in many places . pamplet , animad . . they believe that christ did not become man , when the virgin conceived by the over-shaddowing of the holy ghost , but was man before . answ. he was man before , but yet he was not man cloathed with flesh and blood , in the likeness of our flesh , before the virgin conceived by the over-shaddowing of the holy ghost ; and therefore we do saithfully believe , that the man christ was born of the virgin , and conceived by the over-shaddowing of the holy ghost , who was the son of god , both after he was so born , and also before , even from everlasting . pamplet , animad . . thus christ was never man , had never a humane nature ; for as they have said before , the soul most properly is the man , and christ never had a humane soul , according unto keith . answ. that christ was never man , i altogether deny , to follow by any true consequence ; from what i have affirmed , and as to his reason , that christ never had a humane soul , according unto keith , as touching the words , humane soul , i do not remember that i have used that term at all in my book , the way cast up ; for because it is not a scripture-term , and of a doubtfull and equivocous signification , i purposely did pass it by ; i say , it is of a doubtfull , or equivocous signification : because first , it may signifie such a soul ; as hath no substantial dignity , or perfection in it , above the souls of other men ; and in this sense , the soul or spirit of christ , as he is the heavenly man , is not a humane soul , but divine , and heavenly ; for it is more excellent , even in the nature of it , than the souls of other men : or secondly , it may signifie the true soul of man , having all the essential properties of mans soul , and it 's whole perfection ; and if in this sense , any will say , that christ hath a humane soul , and call the man-hood of christ , his humanity , there needeth no contention about it ; for in the latine tongue , we have not a word so proper , as humanitas , to signifie the man-hood ; and if we may say humanitas in latine , we may say in english humanity ; that is to say , man-hood : but then , by the humanity of christ , we understand , not only the whole essential perfection of the souls of ordinary men , but also some greater and more excellent perfection , as aforesaid ; and therefore , it may be called his heavenly and divine humanity , or man-hood , which took part of flesh like unto ours , in the womb of the virgin. and not only the soul of christ , but also his body of flesh , in the outward , as it had all the essential properties , and whole essential perfection , of our bodies ; so it had somewhat more , as being . conceived of a heavenly and divine seed , that came down from heaven ; and for this cause , the heavenly man christ jesus is truely divine , both in soul and body , being divinely qualified in both . and if this offend any , that christ should be called a divine man , i desire them to consider ; how oft men are called divines , only for some profession of divinity ; & surely christ jesus , as man , hath incomparably more reason to be called divine , than any of them ; and what if i should call all their divines , humanes ? is this too mean and low a terme , whereby to call them ? but why is it too mean and low unto them , and yet they give it unto christ , and call him humane ; his soul , a humane soul , and his body a humane body : is not this to exalt themselves above christ himself , and to take to themselves a title , which they will scarce allow unto him , and to give him a title ( as namely humane ) which they think too mean for themselves . pamplet , animad . . so that he is so far from being like to us in all things , that he is not like unto us in any thing ; for though he had a body like to ours , yet that body is not informed as ours . answ. he is sufficiently like unto us in all things ( sin excepted ) that both his soul and his body had all the essential properties , and whole essential perfection , that the soul or body of any other men hath ; but that he had , and still hath greater , and more excellent perfections , both of soul and body , than all other men , doth not hinder that he was made like unto us , in those which both he and we also have : for was not adam made in the similitude or likeness of god ? so that by reason of that similitude , man was like unto god and yet god is infinitely more excellent in nature and being , than man ; but yet according unto the reasoning of this author , either man hath no likeness unto god , is not like unto him in any thing , or then god hath no substantial or essential perfection above man ; both which are most absurd and contrary unto scripture . but again , is not man like unto the beasts in some things , as also unto the herbs , plants and trees of the field ? so that as the herbs , plants and trees , have a vegitable soul or life , and as beasts have a sensitive soul or life ; hath not man both the vegitable and sensitive soul , and is he not like unto them in those respects ? and yet hath he not a substantial dignity and excellency of nature above them ; but yet again , according unto this mans reasoning , either man is not like unto the beasts and trees , in any thing , or else he hath no essential dignity or perfection ; not so much as in his very soul , above them ; and therefore it shall follow , at last , that as god is no more excellent in his nature than man ; and as man is no more excellent in his nature , than any beast , yea or tree , that god is no more excellent than any beast or tree of the field , which is most gross and blasphemous , and yet the natural and necessary consequence of this mans doctrine . when i think upon these and such like gross absurdities , that follow from this mans doctrine , together with his other absurd sayings , and malicious perversions , i wonder not , that he hath been either ashamed or afraid to put his name to his pamplet . pamplet , animad . . a son is not a son , if he have not the same nature with the father and mother . answ. i grant , for christ hath the same nature both of father and mother : seeing as i have declared in my book , he is true and perfect god , and true and perfect man : but that he hath the same nature with mary , and all mankind , as to all the essentials of soul and body , hindereth not , that he hath also , a more excellent nature ; otherwise , thou might as well say , that christ could not be the son of man , and also the son of god , which is contrary to scripture . pamplet , animad . . jesus increased in wisdome , his soul was then subject to some kind of ignorance , though not sinfull : it did not know all present or past things . answ. ey jesus increasing in wisdome , may be very well understood , the manifestation of the spirit of wisdome , that did more and more shew forth it self in him ; and that to increase , is not always taken strictly , is clear from the words of john ; he , namely christ , shall increase , but i shall decrease now , john was not to decrease , as to any perfection , grace , or vertue , wherewithall god had endued him . but again , i do readily grant , that christ , as in respect of the nephesh of his soul , might grow in wisdome , as other men , as also he did grow in stature : and lastly , even the nismah , although omnipercipient of things present , and omniscient of things , both past and present , may and did grow in knowledge ; for the soul of christ , hath this omnisciency of things past and present , by the perception of the objects , or things , as they dayly appear : and therefore his soul may grow in experimental wisdome and knowledge , as properly as the soul of any other man ; although both his wisdome and growth therein is incomparably beyond that of all other men or angels : but whereas thou sayst , christs soul was subject to some kind of ignorance , this is too grosly and rudly , yea irreverently spoken : he was nescient of some things that was to come ; as namely , of the day and hour of the last judgement , as he declared himself ; but to say he was ignorant of any thing , is gross and improper ; for ignorance signifieth always some defect of that knowledge which one should have , as blindness , deafness , &c. signifie a defect of the natural senses of seeing , hearing , &c. pamplet , animad . . christ ( according to keigh ) when he appeared in flesh , was more like to the angels that appeared in humane shape , in the time of the old testament , than like to men . answ. this i altogether deny , for angels have not real bodies of flesh and blood , such as men have ; angels are not born of women as men are , angels are not crucified and buried , as men are , and as christ was : and although christ was called an angel , yet he had and still hath , a nature more excellent than all the angels , and when he came in the likeness of our flesh , he took not hold on angels , but he took hold on the seed of abraham . pamplet , animad . . what spirit was that which christ committed to his father , when he gave up the ghost on the cross ? answ. why not the same excellent spirit or soul , that is above the nature of all souls of men , and that is omnipresent ; for still the father is greater than he , and he hath his dependence on the father , in whose hand or power , he is . pamplet , animad . . and if they are for the pre-existence of the soul of christ's man-hood , why not for the pre-existence of the souls of all other men ? answ. i have no time , nor mind to answer all thy queries ; many of which are altogether unnecessary , others , vain and frivolous ; but if thou thinkest that the pre-existence of the soul of christ , doth necessarily infer the pre-existence of the souls of all other men , thou shouldest have proved it by a clear deduction , so to be ; which because thou hast not done , i am not concerned to answer thy query in this particular : and i advise thee , with augustine , to be more earnest to know , what shall be the state of thy soul after thou goest out of this world , than what it was before thou camest into it . and if thou repent not from thy heart , for thy so long opposing the truth , and maliciously perverting the words of truth , the state of thy soul will be miserable after thy departure . pamplet , animad . . i ask , why is not this man christ , in all the fallen angels , as well as fallen men ? answ. he is in all the creatures , for hefilleth all things , giving being unto every creature , and upholding the same therein ; and consequently he is in the fallen angels ; as also to judge and condemn them for their sin ; but yet christ jesus hath a nearer relation unto fallen men , than unto the fallen angels , by reason of the seed of abraham , which he assumed : and therefore the apostle paul preached christ in fallen men , not only after that general manner of presence , but in way of grace and mercy , in order to restore and renew fallen man by repentance according to his commission , which he received from christ ; which was to turn fallen men from darkness to light : but we read not , that paul had any such commission to preach unto the fallen angels : and as for the fallen angels , they are reserved in chains of darkness unto the judgement of " the great day , and expect not any other thing from christ but torment , as they said unto him , when he came in the flesh , and did cast them out of men , what have we to do with thee , jesus of nazareth ? art thou come to torment us before the time ? so , here , the devils believe and tremble , for they fear the judgement of christ , to whom all power is given ; but how could they fear it , if he were not present ; and how could he cast them out of those they possessed , if his power ( which is one with himself ) did not reach unto them ? pamplet , animad . . as for the greek proposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it must necessarily be translated among in some places , else see what sense you will make . answ. that it must be necessarily translated among , in some places , i do not deny ; but in many more places , it must necessarily by translated , not among , but in ; and in every place , it ought to be translated in , where the sense doth permit it , without any contradiction to truth , or other inconveniency ; because it doth most properly and usually signify , in , and not among ; but improperly , and less usually , whereof many hundreds of examples may be given . now there is no contradiction unto truth , nor any inconveniency , to understand by the greek particle ' ev , it 's proper and common signification , which is [ in ] in all these places mentioned in my book : and indeed , these very places constrain us to translate the particle in , and not barely among : for how was christ crucified among the galatians , but in them ? gal. . . and how was the riches of the glory of the mistery , which is , christ , among the gentiles , but in them ? and how could paul preach the unsearchable riches of christ among the gentiles , if nothing of these riches of christ was in them , but all without them ? and how could so many have been said to have pierced christ , if he was not in them ? for as touching the outward piercing of the outward body of christ , we only read that some few did that ; and therefore , their piercing of christ , must be meant of his tender life and spirit , which both jews and gentiles have pierced in their own hearts , by their sins , according to rev. . . pamphlet , animad . . they believe this man-hood of christ perceives and knows all things , past and present , of it self and by it self ; considered , without any relation to , or union with the deity , and that it needs not god , as to the knowledge of any present or past things , but only as to the thing to come . answ. this is a most gross and unreasonable perversion and wresting of my words ; which any man that , hath the least sobriety or candor , must needs acknowledge , by reading my words , even as cited by him : but if he say , that his gloss doth follow by way of consequence , from my words ; i altogether deny it , and in plain contradiction to what he hath most perversely and falsely alleadged to be my assertion : i say , the man-hood or soul of christ , neither knoweth , nor can know , any thing , past , or present , without the need and necessary help of god ; as neither indeed , can we , or any creature : and secondly , i affirm , that christ hath this omnipercipiency , or universal knowledge of things past and present , by virtue of his divine union with god ; even as the body hath its perception of some things , by vertue of its union with the soul , to which it is united . and because the soul of christ , hath the most excellent , most perfect and most high , and immediate union with god ; so as that christ himself is god : therefore he hath this universal perception or knowledge of things past and present : and therefore also , he hath the most abundant knowledge of things to come , by divine revelation from the father , above what the most perfect angels or men can have ; so that what they know by divine revelation , they know it by jesus christ , who hath it from the father , according unto rev. . . the revelation of jesus christ , which god gave unto him , to shew unto his servants . nor can it follow by any just consequence imaginable , that because i say , that christ hath an universal sense or perception of things as they are , that therefore he doth know them without all need of god , or without all relation unto him , or union with him ; i say , this doth not follow , no more then it followeth , that whereas the author of this pamphlet hath many natural perceptions of natural objects , seeth , heareth , smelleth , tasteth & feeleth ; many objects immediately , and knoweth them without immediate revelation ; that therefore he hath no need of god , or of his help , whereby to make them known : whereas indeed , according to his manner of reasoning , either he himself , heareth , seeth , smelleth , tasteth , feeleth all natural things by immediate revelation ; and all his natural knowledge of things immediately revealed unto him by god ; or then he knoweth them all without any need of god , and without all relation unto god , so much as unto a creator : both which , how absurd they are , and yet how the natural consequence of his own reasoning , i leave unto every understanding man sor to judge . but i cannot but wonder at his blindness and inconsiderateness that doth not understand , how to make a difference betwixt that knowledge , which is by a real sense or perception of the objects in themselves , and that which is by a divine revelation , when the objects themselves are not immediately discerned ; for that which i know by a real perception of the things , i need not a revelation to make them known : as for example , when i hear a man speak , i need not a divine revelation to tell me who speaketh unto me , or what is spoken ; and yet i need the help of god , in many respects , both to convey the voice unto me , and also to help me to hear ; for it is god who maketh the ear to hear , and the eye to see : and thus , according to the aforesaid example , if christ jesus , even he the man-christ jesus , who was crucified for us , hear our prayers , when we pray unto him , and unto god through him , doth he not know our prayers without a divine revelation ? and if he know them only by a divine revelation , he cannot be faid properly to hear them , as i have sufficiently proved in my book , and to which this trifler , and perverter , hath made no reply : and if he denyeth , that the man christ jesus heareth our prayers , let him declare so much ; and then we shall see , how this shall relish unto the ears of true christians ; and who are most denyers or owners of the true christ , & of his divine perfections . pamplet , animad . . whether this is not to constitute a new god in time : is it not jehova's prerogative , what is spoken , psal. . of possessing the reins , and being omniscient . answ. to say that christ jesus the heavenly man , and lord from heaven , is omniscient , and hath an omni-perception , and universal knowledge of things ; is not to constitute a new god in time , for christ jesus is god , even the same god , with the father , by vertue of his most excellent , and most immediate union with him , which no men nor angels have , or are capable to have , and christ jesus is before all things , and consequently before all times also , the first and the last : nor doth it follow , because the man-hood of christ hath an universal knowledge and perception of things , that therefore his man-hood is either equal unto the god-head , or the same ; for seeing the man-hood hath his being as well as his knowledge , from the god-head , and is altogether dependent from him , the father is greater then he , as he hath declared himself : and here what thou talkest of the communication of properties , i may afterwards consider , in its proper place , where thou fliest unto it , as thy last refuge , after thou hast finished thy animadversions . pamphlet animad . . as to the second it is spoke , now i am no more in the world , and me you have not always : i go away . answ. it is very clear , that he spoke these words , only in respect of his outward and bodily presence of his external person , or outward man ; but not in respect of his inward and spiritual presence , even as he is the son of man , or second adam , for after the ascenfion of christ , john saw one like unto the son of man , walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks , who could this be but the son of man himself ? and how is christ the second adam , the quickning spirit , if he be not present to quicken those whom he doth quicken ? for how can that which is absent from us , altogether quicken us , or give us life ? pamphlet animad . . as to thy query here , i answer , that christ was an offering unto god for sin ( when he was crucified upon the cross ) both in soul and body ; and neither his soul nor body , want any thing that is essential unto the true and real nature of man ; and all that which he had as man , he offered up unto god through the eternal spirit . pamphlet animad . . they believe this second latter body is ascended , glorified in heaven , yet remains the same in substance , contrary to their former faith , citing john crook , in his book called counterfeit convert , when the question is put j. c. viz. whether dost thou believe , that the same body of man , after the departure of the soul from it , doth rise to life again : he answereth , this query is contrary to scripture , which saith , a natural body , &c. answ. this is another manifest perversion , for it is plain by j. c. his words here cited by thee , that j. c. doth not speak of the body of christ , but of the body of an ordinary man , which goeth to dust and corruption , whereas the body of christ did not corrupt ; for it being conceived by the holy ghost , and having a heavenly original , it was more excellent then the body of any other man ; and therefore seeing it did not corrupt , it was raised again , according to the words of christ , concerning it , destroy this temple , and after three days i will raise it up : and the same , after fourty days ascended into heaven . pamphlet animad . . yet according unto keith the philosopher , though it be the same in substance , it is no more a body of flesh and blood. answ. how or in what respect , he calleth me the philosopher , as whether by way of derision or not , i am not careful to determine , or inquisitive to understand , for i affect no such title , unlesse it be understood according to the etimology of the word , to signifie a lover of wisdome ; namely the true wisdome , and not that falsely so called ; and in this sense , every true christian is a philosopher ; which is to say , a lover of wisdome ; but that philosophy and vain deceit , which the apostle bids the colossians beware of ; that is , after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of this world , and not after christ , wherein i have been formerly educated and exercised , before i knew the truth as it is in jesus , i have renounced , and do here , openly declare my renounciation thereof , and count it all but loss and dung for the excellency of the knowledge of christ jesus , in whom are hid , all the treasures of wisdome and knowledge ; and what i have declared , or given forth in any publick testimony concerning the truth , i have not received from the worlds philosophy , or wisdom , but from the openings of the spirit of truth , as they livingly fprung up in my heart and inward parts ; and unto the same , and to nothing else , i can and do recommend my testimony , to be judged in all , who have the same living spring of truth ; as it is in the life and light of jesus , opened in them ; and unto the greater measure of the spirit of truth , in any others , i freely can and do submit , any publick testimony which i have given forth , for the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets ; & what the spirit of truth opens in one , can never be condemned by the same spirit in another . pamphlet animad . . the first heavenly body of the man-hood of christ which keith saith , he had from the beginning , he allows to have flesh and blood , and calls it so , and it hath so now , in heaven , surely according unto him , yet , the body born of the virgin , is changed so etheriall , that you must call it no more flesh and blood. answ. i have said nothing concerning the flesh and blood of christ , either before , or after his outward coming in the flesh , but according unto plain scripture ; nor have i medled to give any other names unto the body of christ , but what the scripture giveth : for christ said , the bread from heaven is his flesh , and of this bread , or flesh , all true believers did feed , and thereby had life in them , even from the beginning of the world : and seeing christ himself gave these names of flesh and blood , to that inward , heavenly , spiritual , and invisible substance , which refreshes the soul and inward man of every one that believeth , who dare call these names into question , or find fault with them ? although , i do freely acknowledge , they are metaphorical and figurative ; as when christ called himself the vine , and those that believed in him , the branches ; and i ask , was not christ the vine , even from the beginning , into which all true believers were grafted ? and did they not eat the grapes of this heavenly vine-tree , and drink the liquor or juice , or wine thereof ? and what was that but his flesh & blood , even as the grapes of the vine may be called it's flesh ; and its wine or liquor , its blood ; and as it is so called in scripture , the blood of the grape ? but when i say , the body of christ which was born of the virgin , and was crucified and rose , and ascended , did not remain a body of flesh and blood , i am warranted by the apostle , who said , flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god : and the body at the last resurrection is raised spiritual , conform unto the glorious body of christ ; and therefore it is not flesh and blood , in the vulgar , or common sense ; but if any call it so metaphorically , and spiritually , i shall not contend . pamphlet animad . . if the body of christ be turned into air , and yet remain the same , in substance , we ask , what it is that identifies and makes it the same in substance , that it was , when flesh and blood. ans. here is another gross abuse and perversion of my words , that he affirmeth : i say the body of christ is turned into air. this is a gross lye and perversion ; i call it not air , but a body etherial and heavenly ; and it is a more excellent body than the purest air , beyond all comparison ; and as to his question , what is that , which identifies and makes it the same in substance ; this is very easily answered ; the substance of the body it self remaining the same , under these different modes , or manners of being ; as when the soul of a man , is the same for substance , when converted from earthly , carnal , and natural , to heavenly and spiritual . pamphlet , animad . . as to the comparison that the author uses , as nothing of the body of the sun is here on earth , but in heaven ; only its light and heat , which are qualities in the air : so now that light within , that these quakers have made so much stirr about , is nothing else but an accident and quality from the man-hood of christ , in heaven , adhering in our souls , as light and heat , adheres in the air. ans. here he passeth by the other examples given by me here , and elsewhere , and only noticeth that of the light , which having its center in the sun , emanates in most abundant streams into all the world , which emanating light that flows from the body of the sun , he denieth to be any part of the suns body , affirming it onely to be an accident or quality : but what reason or prooff giveth he , for his assertion ? surely none at all : but if he thinketh to defend himself by the authority of some called philosophers ; who say the same with him : i can tell him of other philosophers , so called , more famous ; & who speak indeed , more according to the truth , that deny it ; and affirm , that the light of the sun , that emanates unto us , is a real substance , and hath of the real body of the sun in it , which is the real substance of fire , as it can be proved , by the said light , when it is contracted or gathered together , by the help of a burning glass , that it burneth , or kindleth , any ordinary combustible matter , as any other fire doth : but seeing such a debate , is more proper for naturalists , and belongeth to that called natural phylosophy ; i shall not insist thereon : only , i inform the reader , who is not acquainted , perhaps , with such things , that the opinion which holdeth light and heat , to have no body , is almost generally , now rejected , in the schools , as false ; and as a meer old fiction of some old popish school men , grounded upon some mistaken notions of aristotle , and upheld by the jesuits to uphold their absur'd doctrine of transubstantiation , when they teach , that the colour , and tast , and smell of the bread & wine , being but meer accidents , do remain without all substance of the bread and wine , after the consecration ; and as absur'd and ridiculous , is their doctrine who say , that light hath no body , that is proper unto it , but is a meer accident , or quality in the air : for as well may the jesuits say ; that the colour , smell and tast of the bread and wine , having no body , or substance of the bread and wine , are only accidents adhering in the air. but why dost thou not answer to my other examples , brought from scripture ; as namely , how the natural life and soul , do principally reside in the head and heart , and yet emanate into all the members of the body ; and how the sap and moisture , residing principally in the root of the tree , goeth forth into all the branches ; even so the life and light of christ , as he is the heavenly adam , residing principally in himself ; doth emanate and stream forth , into all his members , and in some respect , into all things ? is the sap and moisture , a meer accident , having no substance ? and is not the soul of man , substantially , in all the bodily members ? although residing , more principally in the heart & head . pamphlet , animad . . they believe this heavenly man-hood to be a creature , contrary to john crooks counterfeit convert , p. . that true light which is called the life of christ , john . , . and lighteth every man that cometh into the world , is not a creature ; keith saith , it is a creature . ans. to this i have answered sufficiently above , upon animad . . that the spirit or life of christ , as he is the heavenly man , is not so properly or strictly a creature . but men have not only the spirit of christ in them , as he is man ; but also as he is god , and the light , life , and spirit of christ , as he is god : or the word simply considered in it self , in no sense , can be said to be created : but the word made flesh , may in that sense be said to be created , as it is said to be made ; for made , created , and formed , are commonly of one signification : and that the word was made flesh from the beginning , i have proved in my book , because the saints in all ages , did feed upon the word made flesh , and the word made flesh dwelt in them . now in what sense i understand , that the heavenly man-hood and soul of christ is created : i explain in my book , in these words , p. . therefore to the end that the word may be ingrafted into us , and we again ingrafted into it , the word must be incarnate , or made flesh , as we are ; for all men are a sort of flesh , and so called in scripture , in comparison of god , that is purely spirit ; and though the souls of men are spirits , yet comparatively , as unto god , they are , as it were , flesh ; and thus the word is become flesh ; that is to say , hath advanced a step or degree , neerer unto us , than it was in god before any thing was made ; and the word was first of all made flesh , to be the root and soundation of all other created beings , and for which they are created ; for it is a more noble creation , than all things else : here by my words quoted at large in my book , it may be seen , how and in what sense , i understand the heavenly man-hood of christ to be created , namely , as the word is made flesh : also christ himself designed by wisdome , pro. . . doth expresly say of himself ; when there were no depths , i was formed ; and again , v. . before the hills , i was formed : for so doth the hebrew word cholalti , most properly signify , and is used elsewhere in scripture to signify the creation of other things ; so that , made , formed , created , do commonly signify one and the same . nevertheless , i do acknowledge , that christ the heavenly man , is not so properly or strictly to be called a creature ; or created , made , or formed ; but rather generated : and he is the son of god , rather than a creature of god ; even as a man's son , is not called his creature , but his son ; and yet he doth truly and properly partake with the creatures ; otherwise he could not be a perfect midle , or mediator , betwixt god and men , who are creatures . but seeing this production or bringing forth of christ from god the father , is so great a mystery , it is by no means to be curiously disputed about , but simply to be acknowledged , believed and admired ; and not to be expressed in words which mans wisdome teacheth , but what the holy ghost teacheth ; such as the scripture words are , which say , the word was made flesh ; and christ , the heavenly man , is the only begotten of the father , full of grace and truth , and the first-born of every creature : and concerning his wonderful generation , it is said , who can declare it ? and he is called , the new man , who is created after god , &c. and so to these scripture names , i keep close ; where i am safe , and where the malicious accusations of the adversaries of truth cannot reach unto me . and by what is said , the reader may easily understand , that there is no real contradiction , betwixt john crook and me ; for whither j. c. mean by the true light , which is the life of christ , the light of the word simply considered , or the word made flesh , i am at no contradiction with him ; for according to the first , that light , can in no sense be called a created light : and according to the second , namely , as the word made flesh , or as the spirit of christ as man , it is not properly created , nor in that strict and narrow sense , is it to be so called , as the other creatures are . pamphlet , animad . . that scripture , in heb. . . not of this building ; is grosly corrupted by the author , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here , is rightly translated building or structure : it is not always taken , for the act of god , in framing something out of nothing ; nor the effect of gods so acting ; but it is taken in another sense , in some places , as pet. . . ans. that scripture , heb. . . is not at all corrupted , but truely translated , and the sense of it truely given ; nor doth thy weak and frivolous reasoning prove the contrary : for as the greek word doth not always signify a strict creation ; so no more doth the word creation , in english ; and that the word is sometimes applyed to an humane work , or constitution ; proveth not that it is so to be understood here : for the writer to the hebrews is not comparing heaven with the tabernacle made by mens hands , ( as thou alleadgest ) in that verse : neither doth he call heaven , that greater and more perfect tabernacle ; for he saith not so ; but thus : christ being come , an high priest of good things to come ; by a greater and more perfect tabernacle , &c. entered in once , into the holy place : the greater and more perfect tabernacle : therefore , is christ himself , who hath gone into heaven : and this tabernacle , is more excellent , than that outward figurative tabernacle was ; because that tabernacle , could not remove it self from one place unto another ; but as it was carried by the hands of men : neither could it go into heaven , because it was of a meer earthly creation ; but christ jesus by a greater , and more perfect tabernacle , namely , by himself , did go into heaven ; for he came down from heaven , and is heavenly ; and not of such a mean , and earthly creation , as that outward tabernacle was : and therefore , he doth compare christ with the figurative tabernacle ; not so much as to its structure or building with mens hands ; for that were but a mean and low comparison , seeing the beasts skins that covered the tabernacle , and the blood that sprinkled it ; as also , the substance of the wood , and other materials , were not made with mens hands , but only the artificial structure , or form of the tabernable , was the work of mens hands . but christ jesus , this greater and more perfect tabernacle , doth excel the typical and figurative tabernacle , in regard of the very substance of which it is made ; as being of an heavenly nature , and not of this creation , with the outward tabernacle , as to the very substance ; although for our sakes , he did partake with us of the earthly creation , yet he himself is wholly and altogether heavenly ; if this be not the true and real sense of those words , heb. . . i leave unto the spiritual for to judge . pamphlet animad . . let the quakers remember , that this creation , of which he saith , this man-hood is not , but of another ; was not by hands . answ. that it was not the work of mens hands , i confess ; but this giveth thee no advantage ; nor doth it in the least , weaken my argument ; for this earthly and corruptible creation , although it is not the work of mens hands , yet by a metaphorical and figurative speech , it is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , made with hands ; to signifie the weakness and corruptibility of it ; and for a clear proof of this , see , cor. . , . where the apostle compareth the earthly house of this tabernacle of our mortal flesh , with our house from heaven : and calleth this last by way of antithesis , an house not made with hands ; as if the mortal body , which is our earthly house , were made with hands , although not with the hands of men ; which is a figurative expression , as holding forth the meanness and weakness of all that which is earthly and mortal , which the learned among the hebrews , on that account , call in hebrew , asiah , as to say , in english , manufaction , or a making with hands : but besides this visible and corruptible world , of heaven and earth , which they call asiah , or faction ; they understand that there is another more excellent world , or creation , invisible unto our outward eyes ; and this they call jezirah , as to say in english , formation ; and besides this , yet a more excellent , which they call briah , in english , creation ; namely that which is strictly and properly so called , ( the other two , although commonly named , creations , yet not so properly or strictly ) for which distinction of three worlds , they alledge isaiah , . . where all these three hebrew words are used ; and besides all these , yet one most excellent of all , and which doth in the nature thereof , approach nearest unto god himself , and this highest and most noble production , above all things created , visible , or invisible , they call aziluth , which is to say , in english , emanation . nor are these distinctions of worlds and creations , idle fictions of latter jews , but real things ; the truth whereof is warranted , by clear and express testimonies of scripture , both of the old and new testament : for doth not the scripture speak of heavens in the plural number , and of heavens of heavens ? also , doth it not say , that god made all things both visible and invisible by jesus christ , and certainly these invisible things are a more excellent creation , as god created them , than the visible ; also it is said , that god by his son made the worlds , or ages ; which cannot meerly relate unto the times , but also , and more especially unto the things themselves , made in those times . pamphlet , animad . . some of them think fit to call this man-hood an emanation , rather than a creation ; you see they are at a losse , what name to give this child of their own begetting , and breeding , in the imagination . answ. this is another gross abuse , and perversion of my words ; as if by these , some who think fit , rather to call the heavenly man , an emanation , than a creation ; i did understand some of my friends , called in scorn , quakers , and as if we were at variance among our selves , how to name it ; which is a grosse untruth and false hood : for by that same , i did understand some hebrew doctors , or teachers , who call this heavenly man aziluth , which is to say , in english , emanation ; as also they do call him , the heavenly adam , the great high-priest , the bridegroom and husband of the church : and they say plainly , if this man were not , the world could not confist : and who is this but christ jesus , although they do not express these names . and certainly , it might be a great help whereby to convince the jews , and to gain them to believe in christ jesus , as he was born and suffered in the flesh , and rose and ascended into heaven , to make use of those testimonies , which are in their own books , unto christ , although under other names ; some whereof are very proper , and according unto scripture , in our reasoning with them , in order to their conversion ; which way , if used in the wisdom of god , and direction of his holy spirit , i doubt not , but the lord would bless ; for even paul , when he preached unto the gentiles , at times , made use of some testimonies out of their writers , whereby to bring them to acknowledge the truth . but whereas thou art not affraid , nor ashamed , to call this heavenly man , christ jesus , a child of our own begetting , and breeding in the imagination ; thou openly shewest thy gross ignorance of the scriptures , and thy great unbelief , and want of true faith in christ ; and that thou art a greater infidel , in some respect , than many of the jews are : some whereof , in words , do acknowledge him , as he is the heavenly - adam , as spiritually present with his church in all ages ; although they do not believe his outward coming , and birth in the flesh , which is a great sin unto them : but thine , and their sin is greater , who , although in words ye confess unto his outward birth in the flesh ; yet deny his real spititual presence in the church , either before , or since his outward coming , and birth in the flesh. and surely , thy blasphemy is no less , to call the true christ of god , as he was and is in all ages , even from the beginning , a child of our own begetting , than the blasphemy of those jews was ; who , when he came in the flesh , called him the carpenter's son. pamphlet . can flesh and blood , and an human soul , be said to ray and beam from god , who is a free and simple spirit ? answ. christ's soul is heavenly , divine , and spiritual ; and so is that flesh and blood of his , whereof i speak , which he had from the beginning : and it may properly and safely enough be called , an emanation from god the father , according unto christ's own words , who said , he did proceed , and come forth from the father ; and whose goings - forth have been from of old , or from the age. but then , emanation ( in this sense ) doth not signifie , that the thing which doth so emanate , is belonging to the very essence of that from which it doth so emanate : for these who call it an emanation , do acknowledg , that it is a distinct being , or production of a thing distinct from the godhead ; although next unto it , and most nearly united with the same ; as so indeed , the heavenly manhood of christ is . pamphlet . therefore , you shall hear , he hath denyed it again , in the next quotation . answ. this is another gross abuse , and perversion ! for , i have not denyed , that christ his heavenly manhood , may be said to emanate from the godhead ; as one being , or essence , may be said to emanate from another being or essence , distinct therefrom : only , i say , that the godhead it self hath no such distinct parts , within its own essence or being , as center , or rayes ; but rather , is all center , according to that noted saying of h. trismegistus : whereas the soul of christ hath its center and rayes distinct , by way of emanation ; and yet , that which emanates , is of the real being and essence of the soul , as truly as the center . pamphlet . animad . . this then , may as fitly be spoke of them , as of the man christ jesus ; that in g. k. and j. c. dwells all the fulness of the godhead bodily , col. . . how doth the christian savour this ? is it not rampant blasphemy ? see piscator , and he translates the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in col. . . essentialiter , essentially : and calvin likewise upon the scripture , saith , that god hath in christ , essentially appeared unto us . answ. i altogether deny the consequence ; that , because the essence of god is in us , that therefore , the fulness of the godhead can be said to dwell in us bodily : for that is only proper unto christ , who is the mediator betwixt god and us ; in whom that fulness dwelleth immediately , and to which it is immediately united . and forasmuch , as we cannot contain the fulness of christ , but only a measure of him ; therefore , the fulness of the godhead cannot be said to dwell in us : and yet we must partake of that fulness which dwelleth in christ , because we partake of christ , in whom the fulness is . and this is no blasphemy , but words of truth and soberness , and cannot but savour well and comfortably unto every true christian ; namely , that god dwelleth in us in christ , according to christ his own words , unto the father , joh. . . thou in me , and i in them ; and according unto john , he that confesseth the son , hath the father also , joh. . . and as for piscator , his translation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , essentially , it doth nothing hinder , but rather helpeth to consirm the truth of what i affirm : for , if the fulness of the godhead dwell in christ essentially , or in its true essence ; then it is clear , that if any measure of christ dwell in us , that a measure of that fulness of god himself , dwelleth in us : for no measure , or part of christ , is empty of god. which fulness of the godhead , as also , the measures of it , are not to be understood simply , as in god himself ; who properly hath no parts , nor measures , but in respect of his appearance and manifestation towards us ; which appearance or manifestation of god , hath its fulness in christ , and its measures in us , according to the measure of the gift of christ , received by us . for concerning christ , it is said ; that god gave not the spirit by measure unto him : but to every one of us , the grace or gift ( namely , of the holy spirit ) is given , according to the measure of the gift of christ. and thus we see , that the scripture holdeth forth measures of the spirit given unto us , through what we receive of the measure of christ : but christ hath that spirit in fulness , or without measure : and the spirit of god , both in christ , and in us , s of the same essence with god. again , as to the words of calvin , cited by thee ; they do also confirm the same truth , and over-turn thy gross assertion : for , if god hath appeared unto us essentially , in christ , and that we are partakers of christ himself , by a real participation of him as calvin doth else-where acknowledge ; then , together with christ , we are also partakers of god : for god revealeth himself in christ essentially , and christ revealeth himself in us . pamphlet . whosoever then hath god essentially in him , hath the whole deity in him ; for the essence is the whole deity . answ. the essence of the deity ( as i have said ) hath not measures properly in it self ; but yet the scripture alloweth us to speak of the measures of the spirit of god , which is one essence , or being with god : which measures in us , and fulness in christ , are to be understood , in respect of manifestation . and according to this distinction of fulness and measures , that is warranted by the scriptures , i deny thy assertion ; that who ever hath any measure of the essence of god , hath the whole or fulness ; and the plain tendency of all thy work against us , is not only to rob the saints of christ , the heavenly man , but also of the holy ghost , and consequentially of god ; and then finally , of all goodness , vertue and grace : and indeed , this is the real and naked tendency of the doctrine of all those , who contend so earnestly against the real and proper in-being , or in-dwelling of christ , in the saints , as he is the heavenly man , and second adam ; to bring us at last , if they could , to deny that we have either god in us , or the holy ghost ; for if the essence of god , dwell only in christ , and that christ dwell not in us , then indeed it should follow , that we have nothing of god , and so nothing of the holy spirit , which is one essence with him : and the end of this is plain down-right atheisme ; for if god himself be not present in men , nor the holy ghost , ( which is one essence with him ) nor christ , how can any thing that is truly good be in us , who can work it ; or being wrought , who can preserve it if god and christ be absent ? surely nothing appeareth unto me , more rampant blasphemy , nor more gross atheism , than to deny , that god is really present in all men , and in all things : for , how is god omni-present , if he be not really present , in and with all his creatures ? and if god be present in all his creatures , then christ is also present , because the fulness of the godhead dwelleth in christ. but seeing thou wilt not allow christ , to have any further reach or extent , than the humane soul and body of any ordinary man ; and that the fulness of the godhead is contained within that bounds of the ordinary stature of a mans body , and that essentially ? is not this to limit the infinite god into a narrower place , or room , than the souls of many brute beasts , which have larger bodies , manifold times , than the greatest body of any earthly man , and to confine him within the humane figure and shape of a man ? yea , nothing is more plain , which is gross anthropomorphitisme , and the blasphemous doctrine of lodowick muggleton . but further , i enquire , seeing thou affirmest , that the essence of god is only in christ , and that whole christ is contained within the ordinary dimensions of mans body ; and that christ had neither soul nor body before mary ; where was the essence of god , from the beginning of the world until that time ? for either it was somewhere , or no where ; to say it was no where , no not in the highest heavens , is absurd ; seeing god is said to dwell in the heavens ; and they are called gods throne ; and christ taught his disciples to pray , our father which art in heaven , &c. but again , on the other hand , if thou shalt grant , that the essence of god was in heaven , then that heaven is as personally united unto god , ( by thy doctrine ) as ever christ jesus ; and may as truly , and in the same sense be called god , the son of god , god-man ; the creator of the world , and is the object of divine worship . this , i say , is the necessary and infallible consequence of thy doctrine , because thou sayest expresly , who ever hath the essence of god in him , is as personally united unto god , as jesus christ ; and may as truly , and in the same sense be called god , &c. pamphlet , animad . . yet observe , the author will not have the center of the heavenly man hood of christ dwell in us , but allows here , the essence of the deity to dwell in us : is not this a preferring the manhood above the deity ? ans. by no means : but it is an infallible indication , that the deity is infinitely a more excellent being than the man-hood of christ simply considered ; for it is a greater perfection to be all center ; and that the center be every where , then only in some place . as for example , if the light of the outward sun were all center , and that the center of the suns light were every where in the whole firmament , that light should be a much greater , and a more glorious and excellent light , than the light of the sun , as it is now at present , is : and although i say , that the center of the soul and spirit of christ , as man , is not in us ; yet the true essence of the soul and spirit of christ , in measure , is in us ; for that emanation , or flowing forth , and ray of his life and light , is truly efsential unto him , and is not any meer quality or accident , or operation , as some have supposed . pamphlet , animad . . they believe , that there is a nephesh , and a nishamah , in this heavenly soul of the man-hood of christ , one more gross , the other more refined . answ. this is a gross abuse and perversion : for although i speak of a nephesh , and nishamah , in the soul of christ , yet i did not call the one more gross , the other more refined , although the one doth excel the other ; yet none of them are either to be called , or understood to be gross , as having any mixture of refuse , or superfluity , as the word gross doth import . pamphlet . but there is a secret not yet to be revealed by this rabbi ; whether these two be one soul , or two souls of different kinds ; or whither two faculties , or parts of one and the same soul ? answ. this is another abuse , for i do not state the question so ; as whether one soul or two souls ; but thus : whither two principles really distinct , or two faculties or powers of one only principle , which i found no necessity to determine , as neither i yet do , whatever be my judgment and perswasion in the case . now , admitting or giving that they were two principles , yea although three , or four ; or more principles , were acknowledged to be in the soul of man , as constituent thereof ; it is still but one soul , in the compleat and intire notion of the soul ; as the body of man , is still but one body , although consisting , · not only of many members , but also of many principles ; as namely , the elements of water , earth , air , fire ; and certainly , he that understands the nature of any ordinary man , and what man is , inwardly and outwardly , in soul and body , must needs acknowledge that every ' man hath many principles in him ; yea the principles of the whole creation , reduced by a wonderful order , into a certain epitome or compend ; and for this cause , not only these called philosophers of old , but also these called the fathers , have called man , the microcosme , or little world , as having all the principles of it , in him ; namely , the principles of the outward and visible world , in his body and outward man ; and the principles of the inward and invisible worlds , in his inward man ; and these words , isaiah . . every one that is called in my name , and unto my glory , i have created him , i have formed him , i have made him . the learned among the hebrews understand them , in respect of the three worlds aforesaid ; so that out of each of these three worlds , man is made , or created ; and yet he still but one man ; his soul , one soul ; and his body , one body ; although consisting of many principles ; even as a speech , or discourse , is but one speech , or discourse , although that speech , consist of many sentences , and every sentence of many words ; every word commonly of divers syllables , and every syllable of divers letters ; and the letters which are the first principles of speech , of divers kinds and natures ; and for this cause , and with a respect unto this , some have called man , logos , i. e. a speech , as being the similitude of that more excellent and principal logos , which is christ , the essential speech or word of god. but because every being , the nearer that it is in nature unto god , doth the more resemble him ; and that god himself , is a most simple unmixed being , without all composition of parts or principles , and is one in the highest and most perfect sense , ( which yet his being three , only in manner or property of being , doth nothing hinder ) ; and that christ , the heavenly man , of all things , is nearest unto god , and his most perfect image ; therefore it is manifest , that he hath least of that which may , or can be called a composition , or mixture of principles : but whatever perfection , virtue , power , or operation , the creatures have in their various compositions , he hath them all virtually and eminently in himself , after a more perfect , and simple manner : but seeing he took hold on the seed of abraham , and did partake of flesh and blood like unto ours , to the end that he might be yet more like unto us , that he might make us like unto him , yet more abundantly , whether it behoved not that he was to partake with us , of all the principles , both inward and outward , that belong to the essential constitution of any man , is a thing worthy of consideration ; as also , admitting that he did partake of all these principles , whether he did assume , or partake of them , at one and the same moment of time ; and what i have here written , is enough i hope , to them who have a spiritual understanding , to discern , and perceive my judgement in the present case ; as whether the nephesh and neshamah in christ , be distinct principles , yea or nay ; or whether more , then these two : but as for others who are carnal , and cannot reach unto these things , if never so plainly told them , i am not concerned to give them a further answer ; and i had rather that i might be instrumental in the hand of the lord , to bring the soul of any man or woman , to the feeling and tasting of the precious life of christ in their hearts , than to fill their understandings with the soundest conceptions of words about christ : and i can and do say it , in the presence of the lord , the life and power of christ jesus , as i feel it in the least measure , to move and operate in my soul , to conform and leaven me into the image of christ , in righteousness and holiness , is more to me , then all the soundest conceptions of words about christ ; but yet , because , in the light of the lord , i see clearly , how false and absurd , yea how blasphemous , and atheistical notions and conceptions of christ , and also of god , many men have , i have been earnestly and fervently moved , and am at this present time , in the zeal and love of god , and in true compassion and good will towards man-kind , to declare what god hath made manifest unto me , of this and other things , and to open the scriptures of truth concerning them , as god by his holy spirit hath opened them plainly to my understanding : wherefore , let every one that is spiritual , and hath a spiritual discerning , read me , and feel my testimony , and that from which it comes ; for it is not of man , but of the lord : although , at times , to gain the reader , as paul did in his day , i find freedome to make use of testimonies of other men ; and what ever true testimony to the truth , i find in any man , be he jew , or gentile , scythian or barbarian , so called , it is precious and comfortable unto me ; and to declare it unto others , as the lord giveth me true freedome , may and shall have its service ; for truth is one in all , and its testimony is one ; and something of truth by vertue of that divine illumination of jesus christ , the light of the world , that doth inlighten every man , that cometh into the world , is made manifest for a testimony among all nations and sorts of people ; and in every nation , he that feareth god and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him : and what if some hold the truth in unrighteousnesse ? what if wicked men at times , confesse unto christ , as the devils formerly did ? we must not therefore deny him , but rather make use of their own testimony against them , unto their further condemnation . pamphlet animad . . i query here , whether , besides this nishma , adam had a rational soul , which was the root of his animal senses , and discursive parts ; and whether this that was breathed into adam , was the center of the soul of christ or some ray only ; it should be the center , in that nishma , is the excellency ( the author saith ) of this soul ? answ. the darkness and perversness of spirit that is in this author of the pamphlet , causeth him to ask many unnecessary questions , which a child of an ordinary clear understanding , might resolve , according to the principles laid down in my book : and although i have condescended in freedom , to answer many of his questions , especially , such as have any weight in them , for further clearing the truth , yet diverse others , i purposely forbear to answer , seeing they neither tend to edification , nor serve to clear the truth : but to these at present mentioned by me , as above , i answer briefly , adam ( beside that divine nishma , or soul of christ ) had also , a rational soul , as we also have , and all men ; but the center of the divine nishma , or soul of christ , was not breathed into adam , nor into any man , besides christ himself ; nor doth it follow , that it should be the center , which was breathed into him , because the nishma is the excellency of his soul above ours : i say , this reason doth not hold , for not only the center , but also that emanation or ray of the divine soul of christ , that is in us , is exceedingly more excellent , than our souls . moreover , whereas he argueth , that if adam had a proper nephefh , that then he was a more compleat man , then jesus christ of nazareth ; i deny the confequence , for christ hath all the essential perfection of mans whole soul and body , elther virtually or formally , even as man hath virtually or formally all the essentials , resembling the sensitive soul of a beast , that belong to perfect it , as an animal , or living creature ; but yet he hath some what more : all which proveth not , that a beast is a more compleat animal , or living creature , than a man. pamphlet . it s true he saith , the soul or spirit of christ hath an immediate and wonderfull manner of union with the deity , as no other soul or spirit of men were partakers of . but what union the body of christ that was taken of the virgin , had with the logos , which any of the quakers have not , i cannot yet learn. answ. that is also plainly enough insinuated in my book , where i expresly say , that christ was a most wonderfull vessel , both as concerning his soul and body ; and that , in that very body , born of the virgin , the center of his soul did reside ; which could not be without an union of such a nature as no other body could have , seeing no other man , ever had the center in him , but he . pamphlet , i query what difference , betwixt the nishmah of his soul , and the center of it ? answ. as great as betwixt the spring and the stream , and the life and vertue that is in the root , and a measure of the same in the branches ; so great is the difference , betwixt the center of that nishmah , and the ray or emanation of it into us ; which yet is one and the same substance or essence with it . pamphlet . look into buxtorfs lexicon , you that are schollars , and there you will see , that this curious distinction of nephesh and nishmah , is ground less — and a little after , for the same word is used of the beasts and fouls , and creeping thing , that were destroyed by the flood gen. . . answ. that the word , nishmath , or nishmah , at times , is used indifferently , or commonly , to signifie the breath or life of any living creature ; doth not hinder , but that at other times , and that more frequently , it hath a peculiar and singular signification , even as the word ruach , signifieth , at times , indifferently , any ordinary spirit , good or bad , as also the wind ; and so doth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek , spiritus in latine , and spirit in english ; and yet also , it hath a peculiar signification , at other times , to signifie the divine spirit of god , and christ : and thus also many other words have both a common and peculiar signification ; as the words , el , elohim , bara ; and others . and unto buxtorfs authority , i oppose the testimony of others better skilled , and namely the author of the apparatus in librum , zohar , part , . p. , and p. . and that which is of more authority then all humane testimonies , i oppose unto him the scriptures testimony , in diverse places , which i have cited in my book ; as namely , gen. . . prov. . . to which i shall adde , job . the inspiration of the almighty giveth understanding ; where the same hebrew word , nishmah or nishmath , is used , that is in gen. . . and surely , whoever shall duely consider that scripture , gen , . . how that-the lord god breathed in adam , the breath of life , and he became a living soul ; and shall compare it with cor. . . the first man adam , was made a living soul ; the second , or last adam was made a quickening spirit ; if he have the least sense of that quickening life of christ jesus , that made the first adam a living soul , cannot but acknowledge , that that breath , or inspiration of life , which made adam a living soul , was something more excellent and living , then his own soul , which he received from christ jesus the second adam , who is the image of the invisible god , after whom he was made ; for it was this breathing in , or inspiration of life , that made him a living soul ; namely living unto god : whereas he was a soul afterwards when he transgressed , but not such a living soul ; for in the day he did eat of the forbidden fruit , he dyed , and remained no more a living soul unto god , in holiness and righteousness , after the image of him that created him . and indeed , that this breath or inspiration of life , was not adams own soul , but a divine substance ; diverse of those called fathers , of great note , do earnestly contend . hilarius , saith , on psal. . expounding these words : and he breathed into him , the breath , or spirit of life , and man was made a living soul , inspirationi ergo huic preparatus sive formatus est , per quam natura animae & corporis in vita perfectionem , quodam inspirati spiritus foedere contineretur . scit in se beatus paulus , duplicem esse naturam , cum secundum interiorem hominem delectatur in lege , &c. in english thus ; man therefore , being prepared , or formed , unto this inspiration , by which the nature of the soul and body should be contained within a crtain covenant ( or bond ) of the inspired spirit . blessed paul knoweth that there is a twofold nature in him , when according to the inward man , he delighteth in the law of god. again , cyrillus alexandrinus on . john saith expresly , that the breath of life , which god breathed into adam , was not the soul of adam , but a divine substance . non est igitur factum divinae substantiae spiraculum , anima hominis , sed animato potius homini , & proprietati naturae utrisque ( anima dico atquae corpore ) consumatae quasi sigillum . naturae suae creator spiraculum vitae , id est , spiritum sanctum infixit , &c. which is in english thus : the breath of the divine substance , was not made the soul of man ; but rather man being already indued with a soul , and the property of his nature being consummated both in soul and body , the creator fixed in him , as it were the seal of his own nature ; that is , the holy spirit . the which holy spirit , he also calleth the spirit of the son , and the divine nature ; and indeed , without all doubt , god breathed into adam , the holy spirit ; but this holy spirit being one essence or being with god , dwelleth in the fulness of it , in christ the second adam ; and therefore adam could not be a partaker of the holy spirit , but as he was also a partaker of the second adam , whose nishmah , or soul , hath the holy spirit in it , as being its most immediate temple , or house ; and therefore the fulness of the god-head is said to dwel bodily in christ , because christ is as the body or house , that most immediately receives that fulness to communicate of the various measures of it unto others ; for the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifieth body , is said to be derived from a word , which signifieth a house , or lodging , or habitation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quasi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; so that the fulness of the god-head , dwelling in christ , as in its most immediate , and proper habitation ( as the soul of a man dwelleth in its body ) no man can partake of god , but as he partakes of christ , in whom that fulness dwelleth . pamphlet , animad . . i desire the schollars to call to mind , how this notion of the soul of christ in all , suits with platoe's of the anima mundi . answ. cyrillus alexandrinus and others do judge , that plato , by his anima mundi , did understand that which the scripture calleth the holy ghost ; for as the scripture speaketh of three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost : plato likewise spoke of three , namely , the good , the mind , and the soul : and the good he calleth the one , and the father ; the mind , he calleth the son , as being generate of the father : both which answer unto the father and the son , which the scriptures testifie of , and therefore they conclude , that by that he called the soul , he did understand , the holy ghost ; and that plato had learned this mystery of the three from the egyptians , who had learned it from moses ; but that he had wrongly understood it himself , for he seemeth to call them three gods , as being distinct , in a threefold being , or substance : and the first greatest of all , the second less than the first , but greater than the third ; so that plato his doctrine of this mystery was unsound , and imperfect , although it seemeth that he aimed at the truth . now , whereas we believe that the holy ghost , is one and the same essence with god ; and that the heavenly man-hood or nishmah of the soul of christ , is distinct in essence or substance from the god-head , although by a most excellent and wonderful union united with the same for ever , and yet is not any third essence , as plato calleth his anima mundi . it is very manifest , that plato his anima mundi , cannot at all be acknowledged to be the soul of christ. again , plato calleth it the soul of the world , as judging the world it self to be an animal or living creature composed of soul and body : but this doth by no means agree unto the soul of christ , for if it did , then the world should be christ , and the body of every beast , fish , foul , tree , or stone , and also the earth it self , should be the real body of christ ; all which is false and absur'd , and therefore plato's anima mundi cannot be the soul of christ. pamphlet . animad . . i query whether this soul of christ can be the holy ghost ? answ. this query is altogether needless , seeing in my book called , the way cast up , i have expresly declared , that the soul of christ , and the holy ghost , simply considered , are distinct beings ; but because the holy ghost dwelleth in christ , the heavenly man , and by him only is conveyed unto us , and that they are wonderfully united one unto another , we cannot understand them as separate ; and therefore , as christ , the second adam , in scripture is called the quickening spirit , and the lord is the spirit ; so he may also be called , the paracletus , or advocate , as he is expresly called , john . . and if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father , jesus christ , the righteous : and this same advocate or paracletus , is but one ; it is clear , that sometimes christ himself , is called the holy ghost , in scripture ; for the words holy ghost , as well as the word spirit , have different significations in scripture ; for god is said to be a spirit , also christ is called the lord that spirit , and the second adam , the quickening spirit . and thus the words , holy ghost , and spirit , do sometimes signify more generally , and sometimes they have a more particular , and peculiar signification . pamphlet . animad . . why then the christian hath a great advantage of a quaker , in that his sanctification is of another , and better nature , than that of the quakers , in that it is the holy ghost , who is god , who mystically dwells in them . answ. here thou dost commit three great abuses . . to distinguish betwixt the christian and the quaker ; whereas every true christian is a quaker , namely , one that trembles at the word of god ; and every true quaker , is a christian , and we desire to be called by no other name , than that of true christians : . that thou dost insinuate , as if we did not believe , that the holy ghost , who is god , did dwell in us , but only christ ; which is a gross perversion , and false calumny ; yea so false , that thou givest thy sels manifestly and openly the lie ; in the next citation . . thou dost grosly again contradict thy self , that thou sayest the holy ghost dwells mystically in every true christian , and yet thou deniest that the essence of god dwelleth in any christian , although the holy ghost be one essence with god : nor will thy term , mystically , save thee ; for if by mystically , thou understandest not a real indwelling of the holy ghost , as he is one essence with god , then the quaker is in a better condition , and hath a great advantage of thy supposed christian ; that according unto us , every true christian and quaker , hath the holy ghost , who is one essence with god , really , or essentially dwelling in him , through christ , who is also in him ; and this according unto cor. . god is in you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which being rightly translated , is essentially , from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which signifieth being , or essence . pamphlet . animad . . but they understand the holy ghost , who is god , is not separated from this body & soul of christ : but why then did they not express themselves so ? answ. thou seest reader , how openly he giveth the lie unto himself , in this citation ; by acknowledging that we understand the holy ghost is not separated from this body and soul of christ ; and yet a few lines before , he did alleadge , that according to our principle , the holy ghost did not dwell in us : and whereas he saith , why then did they not express themselves so ? i answer , first , how couldest thou know our understanding , or mind , if the thing had not been expressed ? but secondly , i say , that i have sufficiently expressed the same in my book , called the way cast up , in several places , particularly in p. . where i say expresly : for , because the fullness dwelt in him ; and that he was immediately , and most intimately united with the god-head , so as no man nor angels are , but only the man jesus , he is only the true christ. and because he it is alone , who in an immediate way , and originally , is gods anointed , who hath anointed him with his holy spirit ; and all other men , even the most holy , but mediately united with god through him , receiving the anointing , or holy spirit : therefore all other men are not christ , but christians ; not being immediately anointed of the father , but by the means of jesus christ. nor are they otherwise partakers of the anointing or holy ghost , but as they are partakers of christ. thus reader , thou feest how clearly i have expressed this very thing ; and how faulty the author of this pamphlet is , and how far he hath fallen short of his promise , to give the world a true account of our faith , concerning the man christ jesus ; who is guilty of so many false insinuations , gross perversions , self - belyings and contradiction , as i have sufficiently demonstrated . pamphlet . animad . . they believe this humane nature is divine : farewell that distinction then , yet 't is inferior to the god-head . but this author thinks that omnipresency , and omnisciency , may be attributed to the man-hood ; yet the man hood not being consounded with , or equalized to the god-head , contrary to the doctrine taught by our christian divines . answ. mark reader , the great ignorance and partiality of this author , who is so much offended , because i call the nature of the man-hood of christ , heavenly and divine ; as if because the name divine is given to the man-hood of christ , that therefore i consound the man hood with the god-head , and equalize it thereunto ; and yet within three or four lines , he calleth these of his brethren , who profess to teach of divine things , christian divines ; he will therefore have men that teach , or profess to teach divine things , to be called divine ; but he will not allow christ , the heavenly-man to be called divine : this is a plain exalting themselves above christ. but again , if to be called divine , is to be equal unto god ; then by his doctrine , he and his brethren whom he calleth christian divines , are equal unto god : see what blasphemies his ignorance and rashness , doth precipitate and hurry him into . pamphlet animad . . that there are attributes of god not communicable to the creature ; and among them are these two , omnisciency and omnipresency ; these cannot be communicated to any creature , but it immediately becomes god. answ. that christ jesus is not to be called a creature in that strict and narrow sense , as the other creatures are , i have above declared ; and yet he doth partake with the creatures , having taken part of flesh and blood with us . and be it so , that omnipresency and omnipercipiency , being communicated unto christ , that he is god ; in what is this contrary to christian doctrine ? is not christ god ? do not all true christians believe that he is both god and man , and yet but one christ ? but according unto thy doctrine , because christ is neither omniscient nor omnipresent , he is not god , but a meer creature . this is gross socinianisme , and arianisme both , that christ is not god , but a meer creature . now , although i say and believe , with other true christians , that christ is god ; yet i do not say , the man-hood of christ is his god-head , nor yet equal thereunto ; for the god-head is still greater then the man-hood , and hath its attributes , or divine properties , that are incommunicable unto the man-hood , simply considered ; for the god-head is absolute and independent , and hath not its being from the man-hood : but the man-hood is dependent , and hath its being from the god-head . again , these attributes of omnipresence and omniscience , as they are in the god-head , and belong unto the same , are indeed , incommunicable unto the man-hood ; for the omnipresence and omniscience of the man-hood of christ , are of a far inferiour nature and condition , in respect of the omnipresence and omniscience of the god-head : and first , as to the omnipresence of the god-head , it is centrally every where , and is no where circumscribed , as i have already cited out of hermes trismegistus , in my book ; but the man-hood or nishmah of christs soul , is not so omnipresent , for its center is not every where ; so that , here is a manifest difference , betwixt the manner of gods omnipresence , and the omnipresence of christ , as man ; again , as to the omnisciency of christ as man , it is not of the same nature with the omnisciency of god , but inferiour unto the same ; for the omnisciency of christ as man , or of his man-hood , is by a certain influence , or impression , or touch , which the objects , known , make upon him ; and therefore , the objects themselves are in some sort the instrumental cause , or occasion to excite his knowledge , in respect of the creatures which he doth know , past , or present ; and as for his knowledge of things to come , by divine revelation , that also differeth from the manner of gods knowledge , who knoweth all things , past , present , and to come , immediately in himself , without dependance on any other , or without receiving any influence or impression , from the creatures , which he doth know ; nor are the objects any cause , so much as instrumental in the least , of the knowledge which christ hath as god , or of his god head : and thus i have very plainly and clearly demonstrated , that the manner and sort of the omnipresence and omniscience of christ as god , is very differing from his omnipresence and omniscience , as man ; these two attributes , or properties , as they belong to his man-hood , being of a very inferior nature and kind ; and yet true omnipresence , and omniscience , in their kind and sort , and such as are altogether necessary for him that is to be a mediator betwixt god and man , and our high-priest with god ; namely , that he can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities ; and that he be present both to hear us , and also , to help and succour us , in all straits and wants . and here again , thou fallest into a gross contradiction , to assert , that god only is omni-present , and not christ , as man ; and yet to affirm , that the essence of god is only present in the manhood of christ , which is a manifest and palpable contradiction . again ; i ask thee , is omni-presence essential unto god , or only an accident ? if an essential attribute , then it followeth , that god's essence is every-where : if it be only an accident , then thou asserts contrary to scripture , and to thy own divines , as thou callest them , that there are accidents in god , and that he is changeable , which is gross cajetanisme , and vorstianisme ; namely , the heresie of cajetanus and vorstius , that is greatly condemned , and that generally by all christians . pamphlet . animad . . let it be considered likewise , there is thought by judicious divines , that there is an infinite space beyond this globe of the heaven and earth : i query , whether this manhood , if omni-present , must not be there ? and a little after , he saith ; and if present there throughout , this is immensity ; and then , the universe is but as a drop of the bucket , to the man-hood of christ : is it not then equal to god , and confounded with god ? and after , in p. : l. . he calleth this infinite space , infinite imaginary space ! answ. they who affirm , that there are such infinite imaginary spaces , may rather be truly called unjudicious humanes , than judicious divines ; seeing , by thy own confession , they are meerly imaginary , and are not any part of the universe , and are neither god nor christ ; and yet are infinite , and have immensity : then which , there can be supposed nothing that is a greater contradiction ; namely , to say , there is an infinite imaginary space , having immensity that is not any real thing or being : that is , neither god nor christ , nor angel , nor any spirit , nor body , nor any created thing , but meer imaginary ; and yet it is greater than christ , the heavenly man : for it is infinite , and hath immensity . but , to discover yet more abundantly thy confusion and contradiction , i ask thee ; why may not christ , as man , have the same infinitness and immensity , that this imaginary space hath ? why then , according to thy own words , the manhood of christ should be equal unto god , and confounded with god. by this then , it clearly followeth from thy own doctrine , that this infinite imaginary space , having immensity , is equal unto god , and confounded with god ; and so , is greater and better than christ , and that infinitly ; and yet , it is neither god nor christ , nor any creature , or part of the universe of created beings . is not this a strange new deity of thy own devising , and a most abominable idol ? but , seeing this space is only imaginary , and is nothing but a child of thine , and thy bretheren's imagination ; and yet , because it hath immensity , and is infinite by thy doctrine , it must be equal unto god : it followeth from thy doctrine , that the brat of thine own imagination , is equal unto god : which , if it be not the grossest idolatry , that ever any man was guilty of , i leave unto all men of a true understanding for to judge ; yea , if it be not the height of atheisme . but again , supposing , ( but not at all granting ) that there were such infinite wast places , having no creatures in them , i ask thee ; if god should fill them all with creatures , ( as he could well do , because he is omnipotent ) should these creatures , taken in the whole complex , be equal unto god , and have the same immensity , or infinitness , with him ? surely , thou must needs say , not : and therefore , christ , the heavenly man , although he should also be in all these places , is still inferiour to the godhead : for whatever any man , or creature , can conceive of places , or spaces of the greatest extent imaginable , god is still infinitly greater ; and all the creatures , visible and invisible , are unto him but as the drop of the bucket , and dust of the ballance . and here , if any should ask me , because i deny all such imaginary spaces , as idle fictions of foolish and ignorant men , what is beyond this visible world of heaven and earth ? i do easily and readily answer ; that not only god and christ , but also real parts of the creation , which are true real beings , created of god , are beyond this visible world of heaven and earth ; whose greatness and number , no humane , nor ( indeed ) any created understanding can fathome , or comprehend ; but god alone , the most high ; and christ jesus , by whom all things are created and made , visible and invisible : for solomon said truly ; we cannot find out the works of god , from the beginning unto the end. and thus we have no need to run into these fictions of imaginary spaces , to find a place beyond this visible world ; seeing the things which god hath made , are greater , and more numerous , than we can conceive , or imagine : and therefore , are really infinite and immense , or immeasurable , unto our understanding ; although they are well known unto god , in number , weight , and measure ; and are , in comparison as nothing , and as the prophet speaketh , even less than nothing . pamphlet . animad . . and thus he layes the ground and foundation of the angels worship , upon the excellency of the nature of the manhood , barely considered in it self : i query solemnly , if it be not great idolatry , for men or angels to worship any creature ; and that creature , though never so excellent , be not in personal union with god , and the worship terminated upon the godhead ? christ is god and man ; christians worshipping him , terminate the worship upon the godhead . see , if keith hath not made the angels idolaters ? answ. that he saith , i lay the foundation of the angels worship upon the excellency of the nature of the manhood , barely considered in it self , is a gross abuse and perversion , and a most palpable lye and contradiction to my words : as also , that he insinuates , that men or angels are to worfhip the man christ , without a respect unto that union he hath with god ; so that , by vertue of the said union , he is god : this also is another gross lye and perversion . and dly . that he alledgeth , that in our worshipping the man christ jesus , we do not terminate our worship upon the god-head , but only upon the manhood , and that also barely considered in it self : all which three assertions of the author , are gross lies , and most groundless calumnies : for i no where , in all my book , use any such words as he alledgeth . and that i have no such meaning as his words import ; my words that stand upon record in my book , do sufficiently clear me : as namely , where i say expresly , p. . that the man christ , is god , by reason of that most wonderful union betwixt the two natures : and a little after , i say ; the godhead and manhood of christ , are but one christ. — and the god-head of christ is no inferiour divinity , or deity ; but the very same godhead of the father . again , as concerning this most wonderful and singular union , ( whereby the godhead and manhood of christ , are one christ ) i say , p. . christ as man , hath a true and real soul , distinct from the god-head ; yet for ever united with the same , in a most immediate and wonderful manner : of which union , no other soul or spirit of men or angels , ever were , or shall be partakers . and thus reader , thou mayest clearly see , that i lay not the foundation of men and angels , their worshipping christ , upon the excellency of the nature of the manhood barely considered ; as if he were not god , by reason of his most rare and singular union with god : but , on the contrary , i do very plainly affirm the said union , and that because thereof , christ is god. and therefore also , i do further say , that the worship which men and angels give unto the man christ , doth not terminate , ( which is as much as to say , in more plain english ) doth not rest nor end upon the manhood ; but ascendeth through the manhood of christ , unto the godhead , where it doth terminate , or rest : and therefore , the saints in scripture , are said to praise god through jesus christ ; and by him , to offer up unto god continual sacrifices of thanksgiving : and so much doth the word mediator import ; which signifieth a middle man betwixt god and us : so that , although our prayers , our thanksgivings , and whole worship , be directed unto christ ; yet not unto him alone , but also unto god htrough him. nor do my words cited by thee , give thee the least ground to say , that i lay the foundation of the angels worship upon the nature of the manhood barely considered in it self ; because i say , that the man christ jesus , is a great and mighty , and most excellent being , far above all , and excelling all men and angels : for doth not the man christ jesus , excell all men and angels , by reason of his union with the godhead , such as none else are partakers of ? is not this union of his with the godhead , most excellent ? and doth it not cause him to excel all other beings , that have no such union ? by thy doctrine , indeed , it addeth no excellency unto him ; and consequently , by the same doctrine of thine , ( although in contradiction to thy self ) the man christ , is to be worshipped , as barely considered in himself , without any respect of his union with the godhead : for , according unto thy doctrine , that union addeth no excellency unto him , and maketh him not one whit more excellent . and thus , now , i desire all men of understanding , to see and consider , whether the author of this pamphlet , ( and not i ) hath not made the angels idolaters . and here , reader , i desire thee also to consider , how this author of this pamphlet , seeketh to lurk in the dark : and giveth us no express account , whether he believeth , that the man christ jesus , is to be worshipped ; only telleth , that all true christians do terminate the worship upon the godhead ; which we also do : but this hindreth not , that the man christ , as mediator , is also to be worshipped , and god through him ; which can be no idolatry , because he is god , by vertue of his most wonderful union with him , which no men nor angels , are partakers of , or ever shall be . and , if the man christ , is to be worshipped , my argument holdeth still good ; that therefore he is really present , as man : to which argument , although most convincing and demonstrating , he hath made no shaddow of answer ; and therefore , i return it upon him , or them who take any part with him . as also , i return all the other arguments in my book , which are many , that he hath not so much as once named , far less , answered : and particularly , where i argue from what he and they do generally acknowledge , of the devil ; his being every where present , in all evil men , at least , which are more numerous than the good ; and yet they will not acknowledg , that christ , the heavenly man , is every where present in all good men. and thus they make the devil greater than he : and which is more , seeing he holdeth , that the whole essence of the god-head is contained within the body of christ ; which , as he saith , is of no greater extent , than the ordinary body of one man ; and will not acknowledge , that god himself is any where , but in that one only , human body : and yet the devil possesseth really , the souls and bodies of many men and women . he doth make the devil not only greater , and more largely or universally present in the world , than christ ; but also , ( with fear and reverence be it spoken ) than the very godhead it self ; which is indeed , the greatest blasphemy and impiety of words , that ever i heard formerly , in all my life ; and yet the plain , down-right language of his doctrine , and vain impious scribling against us . and thus reader , having answered sufficiently unto every one of his animadversions ; which i have done some-what more fully and largely , than was either needful unto him , or then ( indeed ) he was worthy of : yet for the sake of others , who might be desirous to have some things further opened and cleared , i have found freedom so to do . and now i shall take some notice of what he addeth by way of conclusion ; and reply also , there-unto , so far as is needful . pamphlet . p. . he proposeth three generall considerations , which he thinketh will answer my whole book . . that the prophets spoke of many things to come , as if they were present . answ. to this i have sufficiently answered above ; and i have proved , how absurd and contrary to truth , the opinion of the author is , that christ was no more christ , before his birth in the flesh , than cyrus was god's anointed , of whom isaiah prophecyed many years before he was born. where-as , although the prophets prophecyed of christ's coming , and birth in the flesh , as a thing to come ; yet they did still understand , that christ himself was present , in and with the church , in all ages ; as i have already proved in my book , at large . and this was also the testimony of the apostle ; and particularly , of paul , who said expresly , that by jesus christ , all things were created ; and , he is the same yester-day , to-day , and for ever . also , paul said , the fathers did eat the same spiritual meat , and drink the same spiritual drink : for they drank of the rock that followed them , and that rock was christ. and if they did eat the same spiritual meat , and drink the same spiritual drink , then they did eat the flesh of christ , and drink his blood ; otherwise , as christ taught him self , they could not have life . pamphlet . p. . his second consideration is , that christ acted , in his mediatorship , in all things before his incarnation , in reference still to his incarnation , which was to be in the fulness of time. answ. that christ acted in his mediatorship , in all things before he was born in the flesh of the virgin mary , in reference still to his birth in the flesh , which was to be in the fulness of time ; and also , in reference to his sufferings , death , resurrection , ascention , &c. i do readily grant . but what saith this against any thing that i have affirmed in my book ? or , what doth it infer against the real being and existence of christ , in all ages , from the beginning ? surely , nothing at all , but on the contrary , if thou stand to thy own words , they do prove manifestly , that christ , as he is the heavenly man , was from the beginning ; for how could he act in his mediatorship , if he was not mediator from the beginning ? how can mediatorship be without a mediator ? surely , not at all , more than kingship can be without a king , or lordship without a lord ; or any other office , without him that doth bear it . and if christ was mediator from the beginning , it followeth most clearly , that he was man from the beginning : for it is the man christ jesus , who is the mediator betwixt god and man , as paul hath expressly declared , tim. . . for christ as god , simply considered without his manhood , cannot be mediator ; even as man , simply considered without the godhead , he cannot either : for the nature of a mediator is such , that he must have the nature both of god and man , united together , after the most excellent and singuler manner , so as , by reason of that union , he is true and perfect god , and true and perfect man ; and therefore seeing he was mediator from the beginning , and acted in his mediatorship , or mediatory office , as king , priest and prophet , and as head of his body the church , he was man from the beginning , although not man cloathed with flesh and blood , in the likeness of our flesh , until the fullness of time was come , that he was born of the virgin mary . pamphlet . pag. . his third consideration is , that many things in scripture , are spoken of christ , by that figurative speech , of the communication of properties , when that which is proper to one nature only , is attributed to the other , or to the whole person , &c. answ. although thou dost betake thy self to this , as thy last refuge ; namely , that , called by some , the communication of properties , yet doth it nothing help thy evil cause , more than the former . for albeit i grant , that there is such a figurative speech of the communication of names and properties , whereby the man christ is called god , and also god is called man , and god is said to have shed his blood , although christ , as god , hath not blood to shed , but only as man ; yet by reason of that most rare and wonderful union betwixt the godhead and manhood ; the blood of the man christ , is called , the blood of god , acts . . but this communication of names and properties , is not a bare titular , or verbal communication , but is grounded upon a real communication , of real divine attributes and properties , which the godhead of christ , doth communicate unto the manhood ; so that the manhood of christ , by reason of this most rare and excellent , and truly divine union , it hath with the godhead , doth by vertue of the same , receive such divine attributes and perfections , as are communicable unto none else beside him ; and the nature of the manhood of christ , must be so excellent , so great , and so perfect , and so substantially excelling all men and angels , that is capable of such an union , or of such divine attributes , properties , and perfections , that are both proper and necessary for such an one as is to be mediator betwixt god and man , and our high priest with god ; of which divine attributes , omnipresence , and omnipercipience aforesaid , are some , which i call divine , because of their great excellency ; and in respect of which , the manhood of christ is nearest unto the godhead of all other distinct beings , although , as i have already shewed the omnipresence and omni-percipience , or omniscience of christ , as man , is not the same , nor equal unto these attributes of omniscience , and omni-presence , that belong to christ , as god , or unto the godhead : but of a far inferior sort . moreover , seeing the foresaid communication of names ; is grounded upon that so rare and singular union , betwixt the godhead , and manhood of christ , it is very manifest from hence , that the said communication of names , could not be from the beginning of the world , unless also the union betwixt the godhead and manhood of christ ( which is the ground of the said communication ) had been from the beginning ; and consequently , also the manhood of christ was from the beginning ; for two natures cannot be united , before the one of them have any being : again , as the said communication of names and properties , require the man-hood of christ to exist , or have a being from the beginning of the world , otherwise it could not be said that the man christ jesus , was from the beginning , not so much as by that figurative speech of communication of properties ; so in like manner , that communication of properties cannot be allowed ; but where , as well as when , the godhead and manhood are together united , and existent , and that , for the same reason already given , namely , that the communication of the names is grounded upon the union of both existing together , in the same things , places , or persons , as well as in the same times : and therfore , if the manhood of christ , were not omnipresent , in all places , as well as all times : the man christ , could not be said to be omni-present , not so much as by that figurative speech of communication of properties , which is not barely verbal , or titular , and nominal , but reall and substantial , according to the manner above expressed . again , there are many scriptures which speak of christ , that must needs be understood of christ as man , and not as god , so much as by that figurative speech of communication of prorerties ; as when christ said , john . i came down from heaven , not to do my own will : this must needs be understood of christ as man , as i have already proved , seeing christ as god always doth his own will. what he adds page , . concerning the sum of the quakers doctrine , concerning christ , it being in great part , a heap of nonsence and confusion , and not my words nor meaning , and so far as any part of it is true , being sufficiently answered already , i need not make any new reply unto it ; only , whereas he talketh of two souls and bodies of christ , i would have the reader to remember , that i have no where in all my book spoke of two souls of christ : and as concerning the two bodies of christ , they are also but one body , in the full and intire notion of a body , consisting of various parts and members , united into one , so that the manhood of christ is still but one , in its full and intire nature . and again , whereas he finds fault with us , for saying , that christs heavenly body , whereof the saints are partakers , confisteth of flesh , blood and bones , he may find the same fault with christ , who spoke os his flesh and blood that came down from heaven , which is the saints food : also , he may blame paul , who said , the saints were of his flesh and of his bones ; but flesh , blood , and bones , here understood , are not to be meant literally , and after a vulgar manner , but spiritually , and figuratively ; for his flesh and blood from heaven , are spirit and life : and although the wisdom of god hath expressed them under these distinct names , yet originally , they may be but one substance , even as flesh and blood , and bones , of an earthly body , are originaly but one substance , which is dust and earth . and i can and do freely appeal unto all christians , whom god hath spiritually enlightned , and given a spiritual understanding unto , of the mystery of god and christ , whether this be not the true christ of god , of whom i have declared ? and , whether that described by the author of this pamphlet , here answered by me , is not indeed a false christ ? and also , his god , whom he limiteth essentially within the dimensions of an ordinary human body , be not also false ? and so , whether he , and not i , be not guilty of gross idolatry , and bringing - in another gospel , and so is acted by another spirit ; and hath therefore a curse from the apostle upon him ? gal. . , . and lastly , whereas he laboureth to fix upon me the heresies of no less than seven several sorts of heretical sects ; he but sheweth forth the same lying spirit , that hath acted him all along : and therefore , to undeceive the reader , whom he seeketh so grosly to abuse , i shall very clearly and briefly pass through these seven heads ; and sufficiently purge my self of every one of them , to any that are judicious and impartial . . he chargeth me with the heresie of the macedonians and valentinians , who said , christ brought an heavenly body from heaven with him . to this i answer , that was no part of their heresie ; but only that they said , christ's body in the whole substance of it , came down from heaven , and did not in any part , share or partake of the substance of the virgin mary ; but altogether passed through the virgin , as light passeth through the air , or purest christal : but this i do not maintain ; for i have sufficiently declared , that christ did really partake of the virgins flesh and substance ; although the body of christ was not conceived after the manner of human conception : and therefore , it was heavenly in respect of its original , and more excellent than the body of any other man. and that this was reputed no heresie among the antients , i prove ; because hilarius , one of the fathers of great antiquity , and in high esteem among these called the orthodox , was of the same judgment ; namely , that both the body and soul of christ , had a nature more excellent , than that of all other men ; although they had also , what belonged to the true nature of man , in all essentials . . he chargeth me with the heresie of apellis , that said , christ had an airy body , and starry flesh , that passed through the virgin. to this i answer ; that i have no where affirmed any such thing , nor such words have i any where used : for the flesh and blood , whereof i speak , according to scripture , that came down from heaven , is neither of the air nor stars ; but of a more excellent substance , and that beyond all compare : and also , that the body which he did take of the virgin , was a real body of flesh and blood ; as i have above declared . . he chargeth me with the heresie of the manichees , that said , christ had an imaginary body . to this i answer ; that i am altogether free of this charge : for i affirm , that christ hath no imaginary body ; for his body is real and substantial . nor doth it prove , that christ his heavenly body , is imagińary , because it cannot be seen , or felt , or heard , by the outward senses , as he reasoneth : for by the same reason , god himself should be no real being , but only imaginary ; seeing god , who is a spirit , cannot be seen , or felt , by the outward senses . and thus wee see , what spirit of madness acteth this false accuser ; who seeking to fix upon me ( but falsly ) the error of manicheisme , salleth head-long himself into the ditch of gross atheisme : for what grosser atheism than this , to say , that god is no real being , but only imaginary ; which is the necessary consequence of his doctrine . . he chargeth me with the heresie of apollinarius , who is said to have affirmed , that christ had no soul distinct from the godhead : the contrary of which , i have manifestly affirmed , and do still affirm . and when i say , the nismah is the word incarnate , or word made flesh , i do not exclude the soul of christ : for if these words ( namely , the word made flesh ) exclude the soul of christ , then by the perverse reasoning of this author , he maketh the apostle john equally guilty with me , of the heresie of apollinarius . and thus we may see , how commonly this author falleth into the same ditch , which he hath prepared for another ; and sometimes into a worse . . he chargeth me with the heresie of the nestorians , who said , there were two persons , as well as two natures , in christ. to this i answer ; but i have no where said , that there are two persons in christ ; nor do i say , that there are two christs , or two sons of god , as the nestorians affirmed . moreover , whereas he saith , the quakers hold , that there are three natures in christ , if not four : i answer , . but this was no part of the nestorian heresie , if i had so affirmed : and therefore , instead of proving me a nestorian , he but proveth himself a gross lyar , perverter , and calumniator . but , . i answer , that i hold only , that there are but two natures in christ , nature being taken ( as it ought to be ) in its full and intire concept or notion : for the nature of christ his manhood , is still but one intire nature of man , although consisting of various principles . and this the author himself , must needs acknowledge , or then be guilty of his own accusation : for , is not the soul and body of man of distinct natures , and yet they make up but one intire nature of man ? and if he say , they are two distinct natures , then christ having these two natures of soul and body ; and also , being god , he hath , according to this author , three natures ; which was the accusation where-with he chargeth me , and yet is guilty of the same . . he chargeth me with the heresie of the eutychians , who gave the divine attributes to the human nature . to this i answer ; that i have abundantly cleared my self of this , above ; where i have shewed , that these divine attributes , of omni-presence , and omni-science , which belong to the manhood of christ , are neither the same , nor yet equal to these of the godhead ; and so , i confound not the manhood and godhead of christ , but acknowledge them distinct natures and beings , forever inseparably united together , after the most perfect manner : whereas the eutychians are said to have confounded the manhood and godhead into one nature . — . he chargeth me with the heresie of the ubiquitarians , but whom he meaneth , he doth not express : but for answer , by the ubiquitarians , either he meaneth the eutichians , or them called lutherans ; if the former , concerning them , i have answered already , upon the th . if the latter , namely the lutherans , i have at large , in my book discovered , how i do not hold the ubiquity or omnipresence of christ , after that absurd and gross manner , as they do , but after another way ; that is , both according unto scripture testimonies , in many places , and is no wise repugnant unto right reason , but very agreeable thereunto : although in the general , i do acknowledge , that i do agree with the judgment of luther , and those that wrote the liber concordiae , as touching that particular ; and whereas i made use of some excellent testimonies , both out of luther and liber concordiae , for the ubiquity , and omnipresence of christ , this author hath not so much as once named them , far less answered them . and thus reader , i have particularly replied unto all his false accusations , and his beast with the seven heads , that he hath conjured out of the sea of his troubled imagination , i have easily slain , with a few easy and simple strokes : and here it were but very just , instead of his counterfeit creed of his own making , concerning what the quakers believe of the man christ jesus , to draw up an account of his atheistical and blasphemous creed , concerning both god and christ , which is truly his , and which he must needs own ; either as his express words , or as the genuine , and most necessary consequences of his words and doctrine ; and when i have so done , i should be more just unto him , than he has been unto me , who hath alleadged upon me many false things , which are neither my express words , nor the true consequences of my words ; no , not after the remotest manner : but at present , i shall spare this pains , and refer the reader to the places in my answer to his pamphlet , where i have proved him manifestly guilty of socinianisme , arianisme , anthropomorphitisme , muggletonisme , judaisme , anti - christianisme ; and lastly of gross atheisme and impiety ; to which also , i could add manicheisme , ebionitisme , and cerinthianisme , withal whom the author of the pamphlet , falsely called , the quakers creed , hath taken part , and for which he is justly reproveable . some testimonies out of hilarius , concerning the manhood of christ , both as touching the soul and body : who although he doth expresly affirm , that christ hath the true and whole nature , both of god and man , yet he no less expresly saith as followeth in his own words lib. . de trinitate . suum , rursum panem esse dixit , ut per hoc quod descendens de caelis , panis est , non ex humana conceptione origo esse corporis existimaretur , dum caeleste esse corpus ostenditur — et arguere nos solent heretici quod christum dicamus natum non nostri corporis atquae animae hominem . — sed ut per se sibi sumpsit ex virgine corpus , ita ex se sibi animam sumpsit , qua utique nunquam ab homine gignentium , originibus prebetur . si enim conceptum carnis nisi ex deo virgo non habuit , longe magis necesse est , anima corporis nisi ex deo aliunde non fuerit — at vero si dominici corporis sola ista natura sit , ut sua virtute sua anima feratur in humidis & insistat in liquidis , et extructa transcurrat , quid per naturam humani corporis concepta ex spiritu s. caro iudicatur ? and concerning the soul of christ , he further saith . naturae hujus potestatem , iam non dico metus , sed nec infernae sedis regio est concludens , quae descendens ad inferos , a paradiso non desit , sic ut & hominis filius loquens in terris , maneat & in caelo . — non habet hunc metus corporalis penetrantem quidem inferos , sed ubique naturae suae virtute distentum & naturam hanc mundi dominam , ac libertate spiritualis virtutis immensam , non sibi terrore mortis , gehennae chaos vindicat , qua paradisi deliciae carere non possunt . in english thus . again , he said , that he was bread ; that by this , that he is bread , coming down from heaven , the original of his body may not be esteemed to be of humane conception , while it is shown to be a heavenly body — and the hereticks use to accuse us , because we say , that christ was born a man , having a soul and body not of our kind : but as by himself , he took to himself a body of the virgin ; so of himself , he took to himself , a soul which is never to be acknowledged to have the same originals of them begotten of man : for if the virgin had the conception of the flesh , not of any other but god , it is much more needfull , that the soul was not of any but of god. — but indeed , if that be the onely nature of the lords body , that by its own vertue , by its soul it is carried upon the waters , and standeth upon the floods , and being struck at , can pass through ; why is the flesh conceived of the holy ghost , judged by the nature of an humane body ? and concerning the soul of christ , he further saith . the power of this nature , now i say , not only fear , but the region of the infernal seat doth not contain ; which descending into the hells , is not absent from paradice ; so that being the son of man speaking in the earth , he doth remain in the heavens . bodily fear doth not take hold of him ; that doth indeed penetrate the hells , but is everywhere extended , in the vertue of his own nature ; and the pit of hell cannot claim to it self by the terrour of death , this nature ; that is , the lady of the world , & immense , or unmeasurable in the liberty of spiritual vertue ; which the delights of paradice cannot want , post-script . since i wrote the answer , aforesaid , to the pamphlet , set out by a nameless author , called the quakers creed , &c. i have seen a sheet in print subscribed by william haworth , a sort of independent teacher at hartford , which he calls a winding-sheet for the five hartford quakers ; and in the said sheet , he refers the reader to the aforesaid pamphlet , called the quakers creed , for an answer to my book , the way cast up . this gives me just ground to hold the said william haworth , either to be the author of the said pamphlet , or at least an approver of it ; and therefore all the lies and calumnies , and whatever other gross abuses , weaknesses , and impertinencies , and all the absurd , and blasphemous assertions , which i have discovered in the said pamphlet , are chargeable upon him , and lye at his door . and whereas william haworth saith , at the end of that fheet aforesaid , that g. keith saith , christ never was a man ; this i charge upon him , as a most gross , and notorious lye , and slander : i never spoke , wrote , nor thought , any such thing . it is strange , that the man has so far lost all sense of shame , to publish such a manifest lye in the sight of the world . now , how truely , and uprightly i own and believe , that christ is both god and man , my book called , the way cast up , is a sufficient witness ; and this other treatise , writ by me in answer to the lying pamphlet , owned by him , is another . but it seemeth , he doth suppose , that such a conclusion will follow by way of consequence from my words , because i have affirmed in my book , that christ the heavenly man , was from the beginning , even before adam , the first man , which was of the earth , earthly . but this consequence i altogether deny , as false and unreasonable ; for his being before he came in that body , doth no more infer , that he was not man in that body , than it doth infer , that a man ceaseth to be a man , or that the soul of any man ceaseth to have a being , when it is not in a fleshly body : and if the having of a fleshly body be so essential to the being of the soul , ( which is most principally the man ) so as the soul cannot be , or subsist before the fleshly body ; the same reason holds as much , that the soul cannot subsist , or have a being , after the fleshly body is put off : and so by w. haworth his argument , the soul of every man dyeth with the body , and hath no immortal subsistance . let him see , how he can clear himself of this , and many other absurdities , which he runneth himself into , by his foolish and inconsiderate way of reasoning . and as for other things in that he calleth his winding sheet , which he chargeth upon the quakers , as their doctrines , and then upon some called quakers ; as that one should say , that the soul of man was the devil , & that the devil was made an offering for sin ; and another should say , that christ was a bastard : these false , and abominable calumnies , have been so fully and sufficiently answered above , by the said five hartford friends ; and especially in their last , called the malice of the independent agent again rebuked , that it is to no purpose to give any further reply . nor is the evidence he giveth by proof of some witnesses , of any more authority than his own , who hath openly in the face of the world , discovered himself to be a lyer , and false accuser ; and can it be questioned , but he can find others like to himself , who because of their deep malice , and prejudice against the truth , make no more conscience than himself , to bear false witness against the innocent ? moreover , whereas these five friends of hartford did justly blame w. h. for charging the whole people called quakers , with any errour , that some one or other called a quaker , may be supposed to have writ or asserted , set case any one had so writ , or asserted : and they query further , is it just , the independent party should be charged with the private opinions of every one of them , because they pretend all to one rule , the scripture ? — the said w. h. giveth only this bare and naked evaston , in that he calleth his winding sheet : should the independants ( saith he ) hold infallibiliy as you do , then might that party be charged with all the religious opinions , that any of them at any time vented . unto which bare evasion , these friends of hartford , have given a sufficient reply , in pag. . of their last book : where among other things , they say ; such an absurdity was never the assertion of the people called quakers , viz. that either every one pretending to be guided by the light within , or distinguished by the name quaker , is therefore guided by the same light , in all discourses , or so to be owned by the said people . this which they have already said , is sufficient to overturn his evasion ; as because the quakers do all pretend an infallible spirit , that therefore all must be acknowledged to have that infallible spirit , and to be guided thereby ; which doth no more follow , than that because all the independants so called , pretend to one rule , the scripture ; that therefore , all that they or any of them speak , write , or do , is according unto the scripture ; which instance of parity , they did bring in their foresaid answer , pag. . ( yet do not thereby grant , that any of the people called quakers , are guilty of any such blasphemous doctrines as before cited . ) to which w. h. hath made no reply ; and therefore , it is returned upon him , as wholly unanswered : as also the whole substance of their last book , which w. h. hath not answered , nor indeed hath not so much as pretended , to give a particular answer , unto the greatest and most principal part thereof . and therefore , these friends see it not needful to give any further answer , to what he calleth his winding sheet , until he give a particular answer to the several parts of their book ; and they look upon his sheet , to be no winding-sheet for them ; but that it is an evidence , he hath spent all his strength , and is as it were a dying man , that is no longer able to hold out in this controversie : and that therefore , it may be more fitly called a winding-sheet for vv. haworth himself ▪ than for them . finis . a demonstration, that hen. meriton, john meriton and lau. park, priests, of the country of norfolk, in confederacy with francis bugg, were the challengers; and not the quakers feddeman, john. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing f b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a demonstration, that hen. meriton, john meriton and lau. park, priests, of the country of norfolk, in confederacy with francis bugg, were the challengers; and not the quakers feddeman, john. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london? : ] signed at end: john feddeman. place of publication conjectured by and date from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bugg, francis, - ? -- controversial literature -- early works to . meriton, henry, d. -- early works to . meriton, john, - -- early works to . park, laurence, d. -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a demonstration , that , hen. meriton , john meriton and lau. park , priests , of the county of norfolk , in confederacy with francis bugg , were the challengers ; and not the quakers . f. bugg , their mercenary agent , printed a challenge upon the quakers , bearing date , the d. of august , . in which he says , friends , you cannot but remember your ancient practice in going into the churches , disturbing the established ministers , your challenging them into the field , to dispute with you : but behold ! here is a change with you . we may now challenge you , and charge you again and again ; fearfulness doth surprize you , that you dare not appear ; but remember it is a sign you cannot defend your errors , and that your innocency is not triumphant , as g. whitehead boasts : let this charge and challenge therefore be a touch-stone to try your sincerity , and let it be a monument of your cowardise and insincerity for ever . now , whether the three persons above named , who did so publickly espouse f. b's charge and challenge be not included in the we express'd in the above recited challenge : let their following actions demonstrate . for upon the th day of the month called august last , l. park wrote a letter to s. cater , a minister among the quakers , with the said printed challenge inclosed ; acquainting him , the said s. cater , that he , the said l. park , and f. bugg , and four more ( six in all ) would make good the charge , therein contained , and that they had agreed upon time and place , viz. the third of october next ( says he ) if you will meet us with the same number , at ten of the clock in the forenoon , of that day , in dereham church ; or if that place offend you , at any other place within the said parish of west-dereham ; and you are desired to resolve us in days time , that we may relie upon it . and further , to shew the industry and officiousness of the three priests before named , to push on the said challenge , and to urge our acceptance thereof , and to come forth on the third of october next after : the following certificates may fully evince . this is to certifie , that on or about the th day of the month called august , . john meriton and lau. park came , with f. bugg , accompanied with several of the inhabitants of west-dereham , to the house of william phillips ( tho. becket's wife being there ) and did leave a printed charge and challenge ( with f. bugg's name thereto ) against the people called quakers ; and soon after , upon the same day , samuel chicko , one of the inhabitants of west-dereham aforesaid , brought a paper in writing to the said tho. becket's wife , wherein was proposed a meeting to be upon the third of october next following , in west-dereham church , and that they would be six of them , and would allow us the like number , to debate the matters contained in the said printed challenge . witness our hands , william phillips , mary becket . this is to certifie , that upon or about the th day of the month called august , . hen. meriton and john meriton came , with f. bugg , to the house of john hubbard , in stoak , and there did urge again the said matter , of a publick meeting , in the presence of , john hubbard , daniel phillips , edward plumstid . and the same day , the aforesaid priests , with f. bugg , went to the crown-inn , in the said town of stoak ; and one or more of them , would have had the inn-keeper post up the said charge and challenge , which the said inn-keeper refused to do : this he affirmed in our presence , john gurney , joseph hadduk , gilbert lowe . by all which it manifestly appears , that the said priests , with f. bugg , were the aggressors , and challengers , and not the quakers . wherefore let all sober and moderate persons judge , whether we could do any less , than appear and defend our selves , against their false charge ; considering how they dared us to come forth and charged us with fearfulness and surprize , if we did not ; and said , let it be a monument of your cowardise and insincerity for ever . john feddeman . a new way of reading the bible according to the three norfolk clergy-men, those champions against the quakers. edward beekham, d.d. and rector of gayten-thorpe. henry meriton, rector of oxborough. lancaster topcliffe, l.b. sometimes sen. fell. of gon. and caius college, cambridge. norfolk. gouldney, henry, or - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a new way of reading the bible according to the three norfolk clergy-men, those champions against the quakers. edward beekham, d.d. and rector of gayten-thorpe. henry meriton, rector of oxborough. lancaster topcliffe, l.b. sometimes sen. fell. of gon. and caius college, cambridge. norfolk. gouldney, henry, or - . , [ ] p. s.n., [london : ] by henry gouldney. the words "edward .. cambridge" are bracketed together on first page. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the woodbrooke college library, birmingham. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- norfolk -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a new way of reading the bible , according to the three norfolk clergy-men , those champions against the quakers . norfolk . edward beekham , d. d. and rector of gayten-thorpe . henry meriton , rector of oxborough . lancaster topcliffe , l. b. sometimes sen. fell. of gon. and caius college , cambridge . inferr'd from an instance of theirs , in a book entituled , a brief discovery of some of the blasphemous and seditious , principles and practices of the people called quakers , taken out of their most noted and approved authors : humbly offered to the consideration of the king and both houses of parliament . upon sight whereof i was curious to peruse a book that carried so rare and extraordinary a title : and to be brief in my observation thereupon , shall only consider their first paragraph , and therein shew how egregiously these scholars and divines stumbles at the threshould : and that i may be just to them , take the paragraph at large ; a justice they have not observed towards the quakers ; they say , george fox , the first founder , and great apostle of this sect , great mystery , pag. . saith against his opponent thus , this light , that doth enlighten every one that cometh into the world , which he ( viz. g. f's opponent ) calls conscience , is not conscience . and in pag. . ( g. f. further faith . ) . the light which every one that cometh into the world is enlightned withal , is not conscience ; for the light was before any thing was made , or conscience named . and again , to aggravate the supposed blasphemy upon them , they make this marginal note , viz. the quakers teach , that the light within , by which they are guided is not conscience . now this being in the front of their book , to be sure it was not intended for one of the least of the quakers blasphemies ; though they might as well have called it sedition ( the other crime they lay to their charge ) as to make it blasphemy , to say , that the light within is not conscience . but if this be blasphemy , pray let us hear how the scripture will read after their new way of translating conscience for light , which the quakers , according to the holy evangelist , &c. call christ , and they call conscience . john . , . in him ( meaning the divine word ) was life , and the life was the conscience of men : and the conscience shineth in darkness , and the darkness comprehendeth it not . there was a man sent from god , whose name was john , the same came for a witness , to bear witness of the conscience , that all men through him might believe . he was not that conscience , but was sent to bear witness of that conscience : that was the true conscience , that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. john . . i am the conscience of the world , he that followeth me , shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the conscience of life . and also , john . . , , , . this then is the message which we have heard of him , and declare unto you , that god is conscience , and in him is no darkness at all : if we say we have fellowship with him , and walk in darkness , we lye , and do not the truth ; but if we walk in the conscience , as he is in the conscience , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin. again , rom. . . put on the armour of conscience . lest the conscience of the glorious gospel , &c. cor. . . god , who commanded the conscience to shine out of darkness , hath shined in our hearts , to give us the conscience of the knowledge , &c cor. . . lastly , the nations of them that are saved shall walk in the conscience of the lamb. but to read those scripture quotations truly , leave out the word conscience , and read the word light instead thereof . it is to be lamented , that men that wear so religious a character , and would pass for the key and keepers of the holy scripture to the people , should be so much too hard for themselves , by letting their mistake of the quakers principles carry them into so great an abuse of the scriptures , as to be guilty of the crime they would fasten upon them ; as certainly they all are , who degrade the divine light of christ , in alledging it to be conscience , which may as well be blind and defiled , as knowing and pure . besides , it is to be admired , that these three clergy-men , who by vertue of their function , are obliged frequently to read the common-prayer , should be ignorant of a principle so emphatically exprest therein , as may be read in that book , viz. the gospel on christmas day . the collect. on john the evangelist , and the epistle on the same day , with the collects on whitsunday and munday ; and many other places , too tedious to mention , considering my intended brevity . and why they should brand the quakers , that agree with the church of england in so great a principle , i know not , unless in reallity they are not what their character bespeaks them to be . finis . several papers some of them given forth by george fox; others by jame [sic] nayler, minister of the eternal word of god, raised up after the long night of apostacy to direct the world, to wait for the revelation of jesus christ, and to turn their minds to the true light, that they may be reconciled to god; of the world is not worthy, and therefore doth hate, persecute, and whom inprison them, under the name of quaker[s]. gathered together and published by a. p. that the truth may be spread abroad, and deceit be discovered. wherein the plain, honest, and sober conversation of the saints in fear and trembling, is justified, against the idle bablings of formal professors ... and of all sorts of persons, under pretence of civility. also the priests of england, with their imaginary doctrines and worships discovered to be the grand enemies of jesus christ; and the true worship of god in spirit and truth made manifest. ... with a word to the people of england ... fox, george, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing f ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing f estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) several papers some of them given forth by george fox; others by jame [sic] nayler, minister of the eternal word of god, raised up after the long night of apostacy to direct the world, to wait for the revelation of jesus christ, and to turn their minds to the true light, that they may be reconciled to god; of the world is not worthy, and therefore doth hate, persecute, and whom inprison them, under the name of quaker[s]. gathered together and published by a. p. that the truth may be spread abroad, and deceit be discovered. wherein the plain, honest, and sober conversation of the saints in fear and trembling, is justified, against the idle bablings of formal professors ... and of all sorts of persons, under pretence of civility. also the priests of england, with their imaginary doctrines and worships discovered to be the grand enemies of jesus christ; and the true worship of god in spirit and truth made manifest. ... with a word to the people of england ... fox, george, - . naylor, james, ?- . aut parker, alexander, - . killam, john. aut parnell, james, ?- . aut p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year, as the world accounts, . a.p. = alexander parker (cf. smith). place of publication from wing. includes letters signed by john killam and james parnell. reproduction of the original in the john rylands university library, manchester university, manchester, england. eng ledgard, thomas -- early works to . society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . a r (wing f ). civilwar no several papers; some of them given forth by george fox; others by jame [sic] nayler, minister of the eternal word of god, raised up after th fox, george c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion several papers ; some of them given forth by george fox ; others by jame nayler , minister of the eternal word of god , raised up after the long night of apostacy to direct the world , to wait for the revelation of jesus christ , and to turn their minds to the true light , that they may be reconciled to god ; of the world is not worthy , and therefore doth hate , persecute , and whom inprison them , under the name of quakers : gathered together and published by a.p. that the truth may be spread abroad , and deceit be discovered . wherein the plain , honest , and sober conversation of the saints in fear and trembling , is justified , against the idle bablings of formal professors ( the wicked fashions and heathenish customs of this nation ) and of all sorts of persons , under pretence of civility . also the priests of england , with their imaginary doctrines and worships discovered to be the grand enemies of jesus christ ; and the true worship of god in spirit and truth made manifest . also the occasion of divers scandals concerning the scriptures , baptism , lords supper , resurrection , magistracy and ministry , cast upon them by the priests , removed . with a word to the people of england , who in several forms have long flattered themselves with their ministry ; churches , and ordinances ; but upon tryall , are found to be the synagogues of satan , persecuters of the truth , and enemies of the gospel . and a few queries propounded to tho. ledgard of newcastle , or any of those he ranks with himself , under the notion of anti-quakers . printed in the year , as the world accounts , . to the reader . there is a paper for the press , given forth by george fox , wherein all may see , that forms of religion , ordinances , as they are called , and observations , where into people are led by the searchings of wisdom , and the light of their reasons and vnderstandings from the letter of the scripture , are nothing but the worship of the first nature , the sacrifice of caine , which god doth not accept : and that the worship of god in spirit , is not known to such , neither indeed can be , for to that eye it is hid ; and the revelation of jesus christ , and of the deep things of god by the spirit , is a mystery to them not understood ) which is intended , if the lord please ) to be made publick as soon as this is finished . p a. to all who love the lord jesus christ , mercy and peace be multiplyed unto you . who have been scattered abroad in the cloudy dark day from mountaine to mountaine , and worshipping that which they know not , following the imaginations of others , which they spake from the divination of their own braine , and not from the mouth of the lord ; shepherds that fed themselves , and cloathed themselves with the wool , and sought after the fleece , and so made a prey upon us , and do upon the people ; but god , as he promised , saith he , i will gather my sheep from your mouthes , and seek them which have been scattered in the cloudy dark day , hath gathered us , an doth feed us upon the mountaine in a good pasture ; and so we witness the promise of the lord fulfilled : and as the lord said ; i will seek that which was lost , and bring again that which was driven away , who hath one shepherd jesus christ ; herein do we witness the lord fulfilling the scriptures in us ; and i witness the lost sheep is found : and the lord hath brought back again that which was driven away : and here do we deny all the teachers of the world , who speak a divination of their own brain , and not from the mouth of the lord ; for who spoke from the mouth of the lord , denyed them then ; so do we by the same word : and we deny all them that seek for gain from their quarters , which are greedy dumb doggs , as the scripture saith ; and all those who take the peoples money , and sell the letter , which was spoken forth freely . for isaiah that spake from the mouth of the lord , he denyed such things , and bid all come freely without money , and without price , to hear the voice of the lord , that their souls might live , and to make with them an everlasting covenant , even the sure mercies of david : and this covenant i do witness , therefore i deny ; with the same word wherewith they spake , the same things the scripture denyeth , and all those that bear rule by their means , and hirelings which preach for hire , and prophesie for money . for jeremy , who had the eternal words , denyes such things . micha denies such things ; and jesus christ who was the word , said , the hireling would fly , because he is an hireling : and this word the lord hath made manifest , which gathers our hearts together up to god , and opens to us the scriptures , whereby we see the deceits of the priests of the world , now , of the same generation and nature , and acting those things there is no scripture for , which the holy men of god did not practice . and for taking tythes in the old time , levi , which was to receive tythes , the strangers , the fatherless and widows , were to come and eat , and be filled within his gate ; but this was according to the law ; and here you see , the priests of the world do not act according to the law , in which were types and figures of christ ; and when christ was come , those he sent forth were not to have a bagg , nor a stick to defend them , nor two coats , nor brass , nor silver ; but freely ye have received , freely give : the workman is worthy of his meat ; so they neither walk according to the law , nor the gospel , therefore we deny them : and the ministers of jesus christ , which went into the world , they had no portion of the world , but whipping , stocking , prisoning ; but them that were gathered out of the world in the eternall word , which met together , and were of one heart , one minde , one soule , to such they say , if we minister unto you spirituall things , is it a great thing if you minister to us carnall things ? but this was spoken to them upon whom the end of the world was come ; and this i do witness , what the scripture doth say : god commanded an outward temple , circumcision , the sabbath , given as figures and types , and shadows of jesus christ ; so when jesus christ , the substance was come , and when he was crucified and risen , who believed in him , preached his resurrection , and so went up and down in the synagogues , and into the temple , reasoning and disputing with them that held them up , to bring them out of the figure , up to jesus christ , who was the substance ; so all which were gathered together in the substance , met together , and then the church was in god , and they denyed the outward temple , which god commanded , being made the temples of god ; and denied circumcision outwardly , being circumcised with the spirit ; and denyed the jewish sabbath outwardly , and observing daies ; for he that believes is entred into his rest , and hath ceased from his own work , even as god did from his . and all those now , who have received jesus christ the substance , who is the head of the church , deny all types and figures of him , and do witness the scriptures fulfilled . and jesus christ who is the chiefe shepheard , the bishop of their soules : and jesus christ who is the mediator between god and man , being made manifest in them , makes them all of one mind , and one heart , and to deny the priests of the world , who profess him in words , and act those things he forbids . first , for sprinkling of infants , and telling people they baptize them into the faith , into the church , which there is no scripture for ; but the baptism by one spirit into one body , this we own : and the church is in god , as paul and silvanus , and timotheus write to the church of the thessalonians , which was in god . and they tell people of a sacrament , for which there is no scripture ; that we do deny , and them ; but the supper of the lord we own , the bread that we break is the body of christ , the cup we drink is the blood of christ , all made to drink into one spirit . and the singing of psalmes , after their manner , we deny ; for they sing davids tremblings , quakings and roarings ; this they have turned into meeter , as if we should see one of you lying roaring , crying , till your eyes should grow dim , and watering your bed with your teares , and we should turn it into meeter , and make a rime of it , and take it , and go among a company of ignorant people , and say , let us sing to the praise and glory of god , o lord , i am not puft in mind , i have no scornfull eye , when they are puft in minds , and have scornfull eyes : and when they read the psames , they keep on their hats ; and when they sing them , they keep off their hats ; here they worship the work of their own hands : all such practises we deny : but we will sing with the spirit , we will sing with grace , we will sing with understanding , praises , praises unto the lord god on high . and they speak a divination of their own braine , and not from the mouth of the lord ; and such the lord sent his prophets to cry out against ; all these now who study a divination of their own brain , and speak not from the mouth of the lord , we do deny : and all who are made ministers by oxford and cambrige , bred up with learning , and so made mininsters by the will of men , and speak natural languages , as hebrew and greek , and say that is the original , which a natural man may learn , and the natural man knowes not the things of god , and all such we do deny ; for paul was brought up at the feet of gamaliel , in the jewish religion , but that did not make him a minister of jesus christ ; for he declares , that he was not made a minister by the will of man , nor of man , neither by man , but by the will of god , and all such i own , who stand out of the will of man , denying all carnal ends : for this ministry draws up to god out of the world , and doth not respect any mans person , but ministers to that which is in prison . but those teachers which are made by man , say , the letter is the light , the letter is the word , the four books , matthew , mark , luk , and john , is the gospel , when the letter saith , christ is the light , and god is the world , and jesus christ is the glad tidings which was promised , the lambe of god which taketh away the sins of the world , and this we witness to be fulfilled ; all they that are in the light are in unity ; for the light is but one , and who know the light are in unity ; all who know the word , which is a mystery , are come to the beginning , are sanctified by the word , and clean through the word ; for this word is a fire , burning up all corruption , as an hammer beats down all high minds , high nature , that the pure seed may be raised up , as a sword cuts to pieces , and divides asunder the precious from the evil , and makes a separation inwardly and outwardly from uncleanness ; and this is the word of reconciliation , that reconcileth together to god , and gathers the hearts of his together , to live in love and unity , one with another , and lets them see how they have been strangers and aliens from the life of god ; the light doth , and the word draws from under the occasion of all laws outwardly , working out that silthy nature which the outward law takes hold on ; so walking in the spirit , there is not a fulfilling the lusts of the flesh ; and the spirit is but one , which baptizeth into one body , which we do witness , praise be to the lord , to be fulfilled . and whereas we are a people accused to raise up a new war , it is false : for dwelling in the word , it takes away the occasion of wars , and gathers our hearts together to god , and unto one another , and brings to the beginning , before war ● was ; for the ministers of god , which had the word of reconciliation to draw them from the occasion of all wars , working out that nature that occasions warre , said , whence do wars arise ? even from the lusts , therefore all dear people , who love the lord jesus christ , and the appearance of jesus christ in your souls , be not talkers of the truth , nor followers of the blinde guides , but mind the pure light of god in you , which shews your sin and evil , and how you have spent your time , and shews you how your mindes goe forth , and every carnal thought ; and if you love that light , you love christ , and walking in the light in measure , there will be no occasion of stumbling , for all stumbling is being disobedient , and wait to finde the word in you , as the scripture saith ; not to fetch it from above , nor from beneath ; but what saith it ? it is nigh thee , in thy heart , for with the heart man believeth , and with the tongue confession is made unto salvation : and abiding inwardly in the light , it will let you see one another , and have unity one with another , and the teachers of the world to be the ministers of the letter . and whereas we are accused for going into steeple-houses , it was the practice of the apostles to go into the synagogues , reasoning and disputing about the scriptures shewing them the substance , and told them that god did not dwell in temples made with hands , neither was he worshipped with mens hands : stephen saith , the most high dwels not in temples made with hands , and for witnessing forth the substance , was stoned to death ; but these were types of jesus christ and the saints , and who were made the temples of god , denied all outward temples . but the ministery now which doth profess jesus christ , holds up these outward synagoguess as moses which was a type of christ , which was a servant , ann faithful in his house ; the deceit after him got into his place and was called of men , masters , which sat in his seat , which pretended justice ; and did not ; and that was the time before christ was sacrificed up , he came to fulfil the law , and not to break it : but he cryed , woe unto them that were called of men masters , and had the cheifest place in the assemblies , and laid heavy burthens upon the people , and paint themselves with the prophets words . but when jesus christ was sacrificed and risen , his ministers preached his resurrection ; they did not hold up the types and figures then , but held forth the substance , jesus christ ; and all who were gathered together in the substance , were of one heart , one mind , one soul , and met together , and exhorted one another , and builded up one another in the most holy faith , and all building is in that which is holy ; and this faith i witness , which is but one , and all are one that are in it , if ten thousand , which purifies the heart , stands in god , glory and honor to the highest ; and whom jesus christ made ministers , he made them not masters ; but said , be ye not called masters , neither call any man upon earth master , for ye have one masters , even jesus christ . but the teachers of the world , who in words profess the lord jesus christ , are called of men masters , and lay heavy burthens upon the people , goe in long robes , having the cheifest place in the assemblies , standing praying in the synagogues ; and them that did so , christ jesus said , their prayers were heathenish ; which shews they were never taught of him , for they abide not in his doctrine ; and he that abides not in the truth is of the devil : and here they shew themselves neither to follow jesus christ the example , nor the apostles as an example , but take the scriptures to trade withall . and all those which jesus christ , the prophets and apostles do deny , we deny . when the apostles spake to the saints , he bade them , take heed to the light that shined in a dark place , till the day dawned , and the day-star arose in their hearts : and as the light appeared , so they exhorted one another ; for there were false prophets , and false teachers among the people , which with feigned words and covetousness , made marchandize of them , who had forsaken the right way , following the waies of balaam , going in the way of caine , whose sacrifi●e god did not accept . now all people that love the lord jesus christ , you may see all the teachers of the world there going after the waies of balaam ; for then that doctrine crept in , which is scattered over the world , and the apostles saw certaine creeping into house : , leading silly women captive , laden with sin , and divers lusts , which were ever learning , and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth , which he describes ; they were lovers of their owne selves , covetous , proud , heady , high-minded , selfe-willed , incontinent , truce-breakers , false accusers , fierce , despisers of those that are good ; lovers of pleasures more then lovers of god ; having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof : as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so do these ; men of corrupt minds , reprobates concerning the faith ; but they shall proceed no further , their folly shall appeare to all men . now the apostle bids , from such turn away ; though once he said , some preach christ of envy , some of strife and contention , some of good will , though their intention was but to adde affliction to his bonds ; yet he rejoyced in it . and that was a time when few did believe that that was the christ , so that his name was spread abroad , he did not matter what they were ; but when his name was spread abroad , and many got the forme , and had not the power ; such were antichrists , and were denyed by them who had the power , and so they are now . and all people consider ( you have been long hearers and learners ) if you be yet come to the first principle of religion , to that which turns the mind to god . all whose faith doth not purifie , they are reprobates concerning the faith . so aske any priest or people , whether they shall overcome the body of sin , as long as they are upon the earth ? they will say , no . therefore their seeming faith i deny , for faith purifies the heart , and gives the victory over the world ; and this i owne , and you have put off the body of sin , by the circumcision made without hands ; and whilst we were servants of sin , we were free from righteousness , but god be thanked , who hath made us free from sin , to serve god in righteousness , in the newness of the spirit , and not in the oldness of the letter . and whereas we are accused for not owning magistracy ; justice we own for conscience fake ; for that which is in the conscience , loves equity , and righteousness , and justice , and leads out of all evil , and uncleanness : for let every soule be subject to the higher power , for all power is of god , and the powers of god our soules are subject unto ; for he that resisteth that resisteth the ordinance of god ; but who lives in drunkenness , in pride , in covetousness , murder , lust and uncleanness , their soules are not subject to the higher power , but resist it , and that nature we do deny , and justifie that which cuts it down : we own , honor , and sut up , and honour all men in the lord , but as for respecting persons we deny , for he that respects persons , commits sin , and is a transgressor of the law , for to respect a proud man , because he hath a gold ring on his finger , and fine apparell , such respects we deny , for the scriptures deny the same ; and to set up a great man which hath abundance of earth , joyning field to field , and land to land , and respect such above the poore , this is an evil eye ; for god cryes wo unto such , for god hath made all of one mould , and one blood , to dwell upon the face of the earth , and he is no respecter of persons ; and who are in the faith of the lord jesus christ , it is without respect of persons , for it is but one , and makes all one , one seed , one soule , one heart , one minde , in one god , father of all , over all , blessed for ever : and this we do witness praised be the lord , to be fulfilled , which all the holy men of god did witness forth , a good conscience , and therefore we have a cloud of witnesses which are recorded in the scriptures . and whereas we are accused for our uncivill speeches , which the world calls uncivill and railing , as because we thou people , and say thou to the particular , and you to a number . the scriptures witness , that all the holy men of god evermore practised the same , thoued one , and yeaed many , thoued kings , thoued god , thoued christ , and thou o lord of heaven and earth ; and therefore who art thou , o proud flesh , that thou art exalted ? dost not thou , thou god , and thou christ , in thy prayers ? and wouldst thou be yeed ? here shews the sonne of perdition himselfe , and is exalted above all that is called god in thee ; and the language of god is not kown with thee . and as for the customes and fashions of the world , bowing and making obeysance with cap and knee , which man and women have done one to another , which lived without the feare of the lord , we deny ; but we honour all men in the lord with our soule , and with our hearts , and who look for these things outwardly , there is a fleshly principle , for these things may be done and are practized , and the heart full of envy ; therefore all these fashions we deny . and touching good-even an good-morrow , which are customes of the world , spoken without feare of the lord we do deny : but good to all men we wish , and the good day , that they may be brought into it , and that they may see the happy day : but the fashion and customes which the fleshly and heathenish nature holds up , and when it 's crossed in its wayes and customes , rageth , and is mad , we deny ; and that nature which holds all these things , we deny . for the god of power , light , and glory , hath raysed up a light in his people , and gathered their hearts together to himselfe , and hath discovered unto them the vanity of all things wherein they have lived and shewed them his way and truth , where they should walke and gloryfie him , and serve him in holiness and newness of life ; and with eternall food , and bread of life , doth he feed us , whereby we become wonders to the world , as he hath raised his seed to his praise and glory , and is adding dayly to his church , and the strong man bowes himselfe , and the keepers of the house tremble , and the powers of the earth shake , and the glory of the lord is rising , and is risen , which terribly shakes the earth , that the idols of gold and silver are cast away , and god alone loved , who is lord of heaven and earth ; and the works of the lord are strange and wonderous , as ever was , as the scriptures witness . when daniel heard the voyce , he fell downe and trembled , and his strength and breath was gone . and paul , when he heard the voyce , he fell down , and trembled : and habakkuk , when he heard the voyce , his lips quivered , his belly shooke , rottenness entered into his bones , that he might rest in the day of trouble . and david when he heard the voyce of god in the holy temple , and his prayers came before him , the earth shooke , and david his flesh trembled . and work out your salvation with fear and trembling . now these workings are strange to them , where the strong man keeps the house , and who are in the earth ; but who are rising up out of the earth , witness the power of the earth to be shaken ; and who are raised up out of the earth , witness these things , and have a cloud of witnesses to witness them , passing through the same doore , to the same rest , and so we witness the scriptures , and the power of them , and them to be fulfilled , and fulfilling ; praises , praises be unto the lord god almighty for ever . we witness the happy day of the lord is come , the good and happy day , and glad tidings to soules ; the day of christ , praises , praises be unto him for ever , all yee children of the lord , praise the lord for ever , sing praises unto the lord for evermore . this is the day of salvation , and the everlasting gospel , glad tidings is come into soules , free pardon of sin by jesus christ , who is come to take away sin , and to destroy the works of the devil , this do we witness , the scriptures fulfilled by god alone , therefore deny all the ministers of the letter . g f. canst thou prove in all the scripture , that god commanded any of his to salute any by the way , or to take his name in vaine , or to use any other heathenish customes , but god , christ , the prophets and apostles commands ? the contrary god saith , thou shalt not take my name in vain , nor bow to any creature . christ saith , salute no man by the way . the prophet saith , salute no man by the way , & if any salute you , answer him not again . and the apostle saith , bid godspeed to none , but such as abide in the doctrine of christ , and have both the father and the son : for he that bids him godspeed , is partaker of his evil deeds . god saith , thou shalt not do after the manner of the heathen . and christ saith , every idle word shall be accounted for at the day of judgement ; and by thy words thou shalt be condemned . now thou that art offended at any for obeying the commands of god , christ , the prophets and apostles , shewst thy selfe to be no christian , but a heathen , and wilt neither obey the commands of god thy selfe , nor suffer them that would , but strives to uphold such costomes , as god never commanded , but are set up by the world , and used without the feare of god . now how art thou exalted , thou man of sin , who wilt both dishonour god thy selfe , and would compel thy brother also , to act contrary to his conscience ? what place would thou leave for the throne of christ ? i. n. truth cleared from scandalls . having heard of divers untruths cast upon me by some of the priests in their high places , though i stand onely to the lord in the respect of my self ; yet least any that love the truth should be led on to speake evil of the things they know not , i shall lay open the truth , as it is in me revealed : touching those things whereof i have bin falsely accused . . concerning jesus christ , who is the eternall word of god , by whom all things were made and are upholden , which was before all time , but manifested in time , for the recovery of lost man ; which word became flesh and dwelt amongst the saints , who is the same yesterday , and to day , and for ever ; who did , and doth dwell in the saints ; who suffered and rose agine , and ascended into heaven , and is set at the right hand of god , to whom all power is given in heaven and in earth ; who filleth all places ; is the light of the world , but known to none , but those who receive and follow him , and those he leads up to god , out of all the wayes , works and worships of the world , by his pure light in them , whereby he reveales the man of sin and by his power casts him out , and so prepares the bodies of the saints a fit temple for the pure god to dwell in , with whom dwells no uncleane thing ; and thus he reconciles god and man , and the image of god , which in purity and holiness is renewed , and the image of satan , which is all sin and uncleanness , is defaced ; and none can witness redemption , further then christ is thus revealed in them , to set them free from sin : which christ i witness to he revealed in me in measure , gal. . . cor. . . col. . . . concerning the scriptures , that they are true declaration of that word which was in them , that gave or spake them forth , and are of no private interpretation ; but were given forth to be read and fulfilled in the saints , as they were given forth by the holy ghost , without adding or diminishing , and was not given forth for men to make a trade upon . to get money by ; but as they are ; they are profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness , that the man of god may be perfect ; throughly furnished unto every good work : but they who tread in the letter , and are ignorant of the mystery , deny all perfection , and none can rightly understand the scriptures , but they who read them with the same spirit that gave them forth , for the naturall man receiveth not the things of the spirit of god ; for they spiritually discerned . . concerning baptisme , the true baptisme is that of the spirit , with the holy ghost , and with fire , baptized by one spirit into one body , not the washing away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience towards god , by the resurrection of jesus christ ; without which , no other baptisme can save us , they being but figures or shadowes , but this baptisme of christ is the substance , whereby we are baptized into his death ; and those who are baptized into christ , have put on christ . . concerning the lords supper ; the true supper of the lord is the spirituall eating and drinking of the flesh & blood of christ , which the spirituall man onely eateth , and is thereby nourished up unto eternall life ; without which eating , there can be no life in the creature , profess what you will ; and all who eate of this bread , and drink of this cup , have reall communion with christ the head , and also one with another , as members , and are all of one heart , and one mind , a compleat body in christ . now the world who take onely the outward signes , and are not brought into a discerning of the lords body , eate and drink damnation to themselves , and so become guilty of the body and blood of christ ; and calls this a communion , but lives in envy , strife and debate , fighting , and going to law one with another for earthly things . . concerning the resurrection . that all shall arise to give account , and receive at the last day according to their works done in the flesh , whether good or evil ; these bodies that are dust , shall turn to dust , but god shall give a body as pleaseth him ; that which is sowne in curruption shall be raysed in incorruption ; it is sowne a naturall body , it is raysed a spirituall body : and as we have borne the image of the earthly , so we shall beare the image of the heavenly . but flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdome of heaven ; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption , for we shall all be changed : but they who cannot witness the first resurrection , within themselves , know nothing of the second , but by heare-say : and therefore say some of your teachers that christ is in heaven with a carnall body ; now that christ , who is the first fruits shall be there with a carnall body , and the saints with a spirituall body , is not proportionable . . concerning magistracy , that it is an ordinance of god , ordained for the punishment of evil doers , and an encouragement of them that do well . where justice and righteousness is the head , and ruleth without partiality , that land is kept in peace ; and those who judge for the lord , i honour as my owne life ; not with a flattering honour of putting off the hat , and bowing the knee , which is the honour of the world , having mens persons in admiration , because of advantage , for selfe-ends , but from my heart , for conscience sake , as to the power which is of god , and not to mens persons : for the scripture saith , he that respects persons , commits sin . and the apostle commands the saints , not to have the faith of our lord jesus christ , the lord of glory with respect of persons : and saith , such are partiall in themselves , and become judges of evil thoughts . and saith paul , let every soule be subject to the higher powers : for , saith he , there is no power but of god : the powers that be are of god , not of man ; and whosoever resisteth , resisteth the ordinance of god ; & therefore subject for conscience sake . and therefore , though the prophets and saints were often sent to pronounce judgement against unjust men , who had the power committed to them , and did not judge for god , but for selfe-ends ; yet they never attempted to raise any violence against them , but used all means to perswade them to do justice , love mercy , and walke humbly with god , that they might be established , and the wrath of god turned away from them : for those that be of god , cannot rejoyce in the destruction of any , but would have all to turn to god and finde mercy . . concerning ministry , the true ministry of jesus christ hath alwayes been , and are still such as came not by the will of man , but by the will of god : neither are they fitted for that worke by any thing of man , but by god alone ; for the true ministry is the gift of jesus christ , given for the perfecting of the saints , and need no addition of humane helps and learning , but as the worke is spirituall , and of the lord , so they are spiritually fiued onely by the lord . and therefore he chose heardsmen , fishermen , and plowmen , and such-like : and as he gave them an immediate call , without the leave of man ; so he fitted them immediately without the help of man ; and as they received the gift freely , so they were to give freely : and when ever they found any of the false ministery , that taught for hire , they cryed out against them , and pronounced woes against them , and shewed them that they lay in iniquity , because they thought that the gift of god could be bought and sold for money . and christ calls them hirelings , and saith they care not for the sheep . and micah cryes out against the priests that taught for hire , and saith they build up sion with blood , and jerusalem with iniquity . and ieremy cryes out against the priests in his dayes , that bare rule by their means , and calls it an horrible thing , and saith , that from the least to the greatest , they are all given to covetousness . esay cryes out of such in his dayes , and calls them greedy doggs , that can never have enough ; and saith he they all look for their gaine from their quarter . and peter saith of such in his days , that they through covetousness make merchandise of the people , who have hearts exercised with covetous practises who have forsaken the right way , and have followed the way of balaam , who loved the wages of unrighteousness . and jude cryes , wo unto them for they go one in the wayes of cain , and run greedily after the error of balaam for reward : but those that were sent out by christ , counted it their reward to the gospel without charge ; neither ever had any set means , but went about having no certaine dweling place ; never was masters , but servants to all for christs sake : never went to law for tythes , or any other earthly thing , but suffered persecution ; and as alwayes he that was after the flesh persecuted him that was after the spirit ; even so it is now . all people , try your priests by the scriptures , and never think to heare the word of the lord from their mouthes , who walke contary to the scriptures ; for such were never sent of god : for had they been sent of god , they would abide in his doctrine . and john saith , such hath not god but he that abides in the doctrine of christ , hath both the father and the son : and if there comes any to you , and bring not this doctrine , you are forbidden to receive them into your houses , or bid them god speed , for if you do , you are partakers of their evil deeds . and unto the wicked , saith god , what hast thou to do to declare my statutes , or that thou shouldest take my covenant into thy mouth , seeing thou hatest to be reformed . j. n. the worship of the saints and of the world , how they differ . you selfe-willed professors and you conceited hypocrites , lament , for your woe and misery is coming ; you who dissemble with god and man , and deceive both your selves and others , away with all your curious minds , which feedeth on the aire , and are so light , and which feedeth upon your dainty dishes , and novelties ; you are above the cross , and so the earthly will is sed and fleshly desires . woe unto you self-conceited ones , which gaddeth abroad to change your wayes ; death doth feed upon death , and death doth speak death , and all is death ; the letter is death , and the carnall mind is death . the lord hath said , the seed of woman shall bruise the head of the serpent ; and people will talk of it without them . but o man and woman , doth not death reigne in thee ? while the carnal mind reigneth , death reigneth ; and the seed of the serpent is head in thee , it god have not bruised him in thee ; and dust is the serpents meat : you must all see it in your selves . whatsoever is seen is dust , all your outside profession is dust , which you have got out of books and sermons ; and your latine , greek and hebrew , and all which is outward is dust , and all your glorious gospel-notions is dust , and your gold and silver is dust , and fine apparel is dust , and all the worlds glory the mind feedeth on is dust , all the worlds profession and worship , which is not in spirit and truth is dust . if the head of the serpent be not bruised in thee by the seed of the woman , thou wilt see these to be so , for the pure worship is not without , but within . the worlds church is without them , carnal lime and stone , and their call is outward , a carnall bell , and a carnal man speaking the carnall letter , to carnal minds , for carnall money , and carnal ends . the saints church is in god , and the father of our lord jesus christ . the worlds assembly is without them ; a company of earthly minds meet in a steeple-house . the saints are brought to the general assembly of the first-born , and to the innumerable company of angels , and to the spirits of just men made perfect , and to god the judge of all . the worlds teachers are of the letter without , a proud man , called of men master , and hath the chiefest place in the assemblies , going in long robes , loving greeting in markets , the highest roomes at feasts , all which christ forbid . the saints teacher is within them , ye need not that any man teach you , but as the anointing that you have received teacheth you of all things , and is true , and is no lye , and even as it hath taught you ye shall abide in it . the worlds law is without them , in the command of the letter , and they break the command , and so it is death . the saints law is within them , written in their hearts , and they are all taught of god , from the greatest to the least ; and shall no more teach every one is neighbour , saying , know the lord , for they shall all know him . the worlds light is without them , a chapter , or a verse which was other mens light , left upon record . the saints light is within them , you have a light that shineth in a dark place , to which you do well that you take heed , untill the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts . the worlds word is without them , and they take the letter for the word , when as the word is invisible . the saints word is within them , the word is nigh thee , in thy heart , and in thy mouth , and doth sanctifie them , and is sharper then a two edged-sword , dividing asunder , and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart . the worlds witness is without them , which is the letter , and it bears witness against all the practice of the world . the saints witness is within then , he that believeth hath the witness within himself . the worlds baptism is without them , sprinkling of infants , for which is no command or example in scripture . the saints baptism is within , baptized with one spirit into one body , and are made all to drink into one spirit . the worlds communion is without them , taking a little bread and wine , which is carnall , and cals that a communion , but are separated in spirit , and are not of one heart and one mind . the saints communion is within them , in spirit , written in one anothers hearts , and though absent in flesh , yet present in spirit . the worlds touchstone is without them , and they try the liuing by the dead , the spirit by the letter . the saints touchstone is within , whereby they try the spirits whether they be of god or no ; every spirit that confesseth jesus christ come in the flesh , is of god ; and he that confesseth him in truth , hath him , and the father also . the world is ruled by outward rules & all goeth from the rule . the saints rule is within them , christ who ruleth in them , and is the head of the body . the worlds record is without them . the saints record is , within them ; the spirit that god hath given into them , is their record . the worlds sabbath is without them , and they have no rest but in a form without . the saints sabbath is within , where christ is come to give them rest , and they are ceased from their own works . the worlds psalms are without them , and they sing davids quakings and tremblings , wastings , prophesies , prayers and tears , weeping till his eyes grew dim ; he watered his couch with his tears , and they turn these into meeter , and say , let us sing to the praise and glory of god ; when it is altogether to his dishonour . the saints psalms are within , and they sing with the spirit , and with the understanding also . the worlds guide is without them , in the traditions and precepts of men , which leads from god . the saints guide is within them , the spirit , and they are the sons of god , who are guided by the spirit of god . the worlds temple is without them , which was builded for the idolatrous worship . the saints temple is within , ye are the temple of the living god , and he doth walk in them , and dwell in them , and they know and can witness god dwelling in them . the worlds prayers are without them , and the power thereof stands in outward words ; and they ask and have not , because they ask amiss , that they may spend it on their lusts . the saints prayers are within , by the spirit , which teacheth in all conditions what to pray for , and helps the infirmities , with sighs and groans which cannot be uttered ; and they ask in the name of the son , and are heard in whatsoever they ask , and thereby is the father glorified , for they ask in faith , nothing wavering . all you who read these things , read your selves where you are , whether you be within among the saints , or without among the world . the condition and portion of the people of england , who have long flattered themselves with the church , ministry , and ordinances , but upon tryall are found to be the synagogues of satan , persecuters of the truth , and enemies of the gospel of christ . the lyon hath roared , tremble all you beasts of the field . the trumpet hath sounded , let the beast prepare himself to battel , for the great day of sions recompence is at hand , and woe to all her enemies . i have heard a voice of woe and terror , to come upon all the inhabitants of the earth ; repent all you inhabitants of the earth , the sword of the lord is furbished against you to make a grievous slaughter ; houle , woe and misery , all sorts of people , who have preferred your own wils , lust pleasures , before the pure law of god : houle you sodomites , and belly-gods of the earth , who have given up your selves to fulness of gluttony , and all excess of riot : feeding without the feare of god , sporting in the day time ; living like fed horses , spending the creatures upon your lusts , which were never made for that end : woe unto you , you fat swine , the swine of sodom are found among you : and the plagues of sodom are nigh at hand . woe unto you , for now is the lord come to require his corn and his wine which he gave to feed the poore and hungry , which your lusts have devoured ; the wants of all poore in the nation cry out against you , you have exceeded all that ever went before you , and you shall exceed in misery . woe unto you proud and lustfull lofty ones that are lifted up in your own eyes , and have set your selves above the feare of god , which teacheth humility , you plainly appeare to be children of the devil , who is the father of all pride and self-exaltation ; you bear the image of the serpent , you speckled ones , who have painted your selves in the various colours to make your selves seem glorious in the eyes of others , that they may bow and worship . wo unto thou , that hast set thy self in the seat of god , thou art weighed and found wanting , thy pride is for the fire , and thy honour for the dust , for now is the lord coming to enquire after his wool and flax , which he gave to cloath the naked of all sorts , with which thou hast decked the serpent and spent upon thy lusts , thereby to set thy self in the seat of the almighty , woe , woe , woe unto thee thou that art exalted as high as heaven , yea into gods throne ; but thou shalt be cast down to hell , the lamb is risen to rule the nations . woe unto the covetous cruel oppressers , who lives upon dust , you grinde the face of the poore , and oppress them that are fallen , your measures you have filled , and you have heaped up abundance against this day of wrath . the fire of the almighty is kindled , and it shall never be quenched till it hath devoured and burnt up you and your heaps , and made you a curse to the generations that shall come after . woe unto the envious serpents that seek to devour the innocent , that make a prey upon them that depart from iniquity , you are the head of the serpent that must fulfill what is spoken of you , and you now shew the enmity that god hath put between the two seeds , now thy rage is come , the seed is come whose heel thou art bruising , who shall bruise thy head , thy time is as short as thy rage is great . rejoyce all you that suffer it that the scriptures may be fulfilled . woe unto you scorners , you sons of hagar , you sons of bondage to the works of the devil , scorning , backsliding , false accusing , slandering and evil speaking ; you are brought forth by the egyptian woman , and are in egyptian darkness , and you cannot see that your are in the works of the devil , and by him you are put on to act against christ , in his saints . but now is the son of the free-woman brought forth ; to whom the heritage belongs , and you shall be cast out among the heathen , and ungodly , and judgement is coming upon you , in which you shall be not be able to stand : woe unto you swearers and lyers , under whose tongues lyes the poyson of aspes , which you vent out as you are moved by your father the devil , against the holy and dreadfull name of the almighty , the land is filled with this generation , and hath long mourned because of you : who can pass in streets or markets , that feare the lord , and their hearts not be broken to hear it ? do not all places abound with vain oaths , and lying idle words ? never was nation like to this in these things , so that any who will not use these idle words and oaths , is known in the streets as they pass , and not esteemed worthy to live in the nation ; and thus not onely with all the common sort , but also with many that are in place of authority to punish such things , and yet those are not afraid to call themselves christians : shall not the lord be avenged on such a people as this ? woe unto you that live upon deceit in your weights and measures , by your sleighty words arising from the serpents wisdom , which makes a prey on the simple : and when you have got great estates , you say , god hath given you them ; you are set up above them who are made poore by you ; now is the lord come to search you out , and you shall restore for your theft four-fold . woe unto you that have had power in your hands to 〈◊〉 these things but instead of using the sword to scatter the works of iniquity , have turned the edge of it against such as the lord hath called out of these things , and sent them to call others out , left they partake of the plagues that are to come upon those who are found in them . woe , woe unto the blind guides who have called your selves christ's seedsmen , and now that the lord of the harvest is come to look for fruits , here is no better fruit to reap but such as these ; and that among such as you call saints , and the churches of christ : and now that the heir is appearing , you are stirring up the powers of the earth how to destroy him , left you be called to account for your great care to feed your own bodies , and heap up carnall things , and the little care for the soules of christs flock . now shall you not escape , your day is near at hand . who could have believed that england would have brought forth no better fruits then these , now after such deliverance , as no notion else can witness ? oh tell it not among the heathen , left you strengthen the hands of the enemy , and occ●sion the wicked to blaspheme the name of the god of hosts , who is reported to be among us , and hath subdued all our enemies , and hath delivered us thus farre . awake , awake , all sorts of people , can you say you have not had power in your hands against these abominations ? but now that you have not proved faithfull in the promises to the lord , in the day of your feares ; therefore is the lord coming to call to account all sorts of dissemblers and oppressers , and by his own right hand to get himself the victory . and now woe unto you that have known to do well , and had it in your power , but have not done it , woe unto you that have taken counsel at your owne wisdome , and multitudes , and not at the spirit of the lord , and have strengthened your selves by your riches . woe unto your fruitless trees , you have long been digged and pruned , but no fruits ; you have long cumbred the ground . woe unto you that are at ease in sion , houl , woe and m●sery ; tremble ye women that are at ease , strip you , make you bare , pu● off your pride , and pu● on ashes , turn your musick into wayling your feasts into fasting , and bitter lamentation , and 〈◊〉 the lord , if there may be hope for your souls in the day of his fierce wrath that is coming upon the earth : while you have time , improve it . j. n. several queries to be answered by tho. ledgard , or any of those he ranks with himself , under the name of anti-quakers . . did not god create man and woman perfect in his own image without sin ? . did not the first sin make a separation betwixt god and man ? . whether is there any other way to unite god and man into spirituall communion again , but by being separated from the works of the flesh , sin , and uncleanness , and being redeemed into his first estate ? . was not that the end for which christ was manifest in the flesh , that by taking away sin , he might restore man into his first estate in which he was created in the image of god without sin ? . whether any can witness the work of redemption perfected in them , while they commit sin ? . whether any unperfect , unclean , and sinfull one , shall enter into the kingdom ; yea or no ? . was not that the end for which the scriptures were written , to warn all to turn from sin to holiness ? . shall not god justly judge every one as he finds them , at the day of judgement ; they that have done good , into life eternal , and they that have lived in sin , into everlasting fire ? and whether do you look for a purgatory to cleanse you from your sins , between the day of death and the day of judgement ? . whether a christian have ground to believe , and ought to wait for it , that he shall be redeemed by the second adam , into that estate which he lost by sin in the first adam ? . are not all that are servants of sin , out of the covenant , and under the power of darkness , and in the kingdom of the devil ? . is there any promise in scripture due to any , who have not confessed and forsaken their sins ; but all the plagues written in the book , are to fall upon that generation of evil doers ? . was it not the onely end why all the true ministers of christ , both now and ever , were begifted and sent into the world ( to wit ) to call people out of sin , and to perfect the saints in holiness , and to present them perfect to god ? . whether all those who both by life and doctrine , encourage people to abide in that condition of sin , imperfection ; and separation from god ( which christ came to take away , and so to unite god and man again ) do not oppose the work of mans redemption , and withstand the onely end of christ coming , and so are ministers of anti-christ , and labour to uphold the kingdom of the devil ? now all you who plead for sin in your selves or others , consider these things , and see if you do not withstand the love of god , in giving jesus christ into the world , to clense from all sin , all that believe in him , and so to present you to the father without spot or blemish , and so you are the greatest enemies to your eternall salvation . how will you stand before the lord at that great day , who would have gathered you out of your sin , but you would not , but have joyned with the devil to uphold the wall of separation between god and you ? woe unto you , ye whited walls . j. n. all people and professors consider where you are , and from whence you are fallen , you that plead for sin , and say , none can be set free from sin while they are in this world ; you plead for a house for satan in you , while you are here , and where will you have him cast out , or what fellowship can you have with god , while the serpents head is in you ? you are separated from god , and know not , for what communion hath light with darkness ? god is light , and he that dwels in god , dwelleth in light , and in him is no darkness at all ; but while you live in sin , you are in darkness , and the god of this world hath blinded your eyes that you cannot see , and having blinded your eyes that you cannot see , he leads you captive at his will , and you are willing to be so , and you do not believe that ever you shall be otherwise ; you are servants to sin , and you take pleasure in it ; you are in the flesh and sin , and have made a covenant with hell and death : you are resolved to serve the devil , and please your selves while you live , and you will repent at your death : you have forgot that your times are in the hand of the lord , and that this is the day of grace and repentance , which you turn into lasciviousness , and wantonness ; you make it plainly appear , that you love your lustfull pleasures and filthiness more then god : you that are friends of the world , are the enemies of god , you that love the world , and the things of the world , the love of the father is not in you . how can you say you love god , and follow the lusts of your flesh ? for whom you love , him you follow . christ saith , if you love me , follow me , keep my commandements : and those who follow him , he leads them out of all the waies of sin , into the waies of purity and holyness , and so he is the way to the father , for without holiness none can see god , for he is of purer eyes then to behold iniquity , and no unclean thing can stand in his sight . where will you , where will you appear , you blind creatures , whom the devil hath deceived , you that follow the prince of the aire , who rules in the children of disobedience , bringing forth fruits of sin and unrighteousness , having your conversation in the earth , and earthly things , following your corrupt wills and pleasures : and yet you will profess you love god , draw near him with your lips , own him in words , but the devil in practice . o horrible hypocrisie , canst thou deceive god ? shall not the righteous judge find thee out , and reward thee according to thy works ? thou are deceived , who thinkst to be heir of two kingdoms : thou wilt have pleasure of sin here , and thou sayest thou hopest to be heir of the kingdom of heaven too : but the hope of the hypocrite shall perish . remember thy father dives in whose steps thou walkest , and the same way leads the same end . the lord saith , the wicked shall be turned into hell , and all than forget god . but the devil in thee saith , thou mayest live in sin , and have thy thoughts in the world , and mayest enter into the kingdome of heaven too . now , who must be lyer , whether god or thee ? o vain man , was it not sin that separated god and man at the first ? and thinkest thou to be restored again as long as sin stands in thee ? man was not created in sin , but pure and holy in the image of god , and while he stood here , he had communion with god , and had the pure wisdom of god communicated to him , by which he was able to see into the wonders of god , and to give names unto all living creatures : but as soon as he had sinned , he was stript of all , that he became naked , and was thrust out of paradise , and was cursed from the lord ; yea the ground was cursed for his sake , and all this because of sin , which thou thinkest so light of , and art so loath to part with , so odious is sin in the pure eyes of god who is holy ; and didst thou but know thy condition , as thou lyest in sin , in the first birth , a childe of wrath , and one to whom all the curses in the book of god are due , thou shouldest tremble at sin , and not plead for it , wherein thou shewest thy self plainly a servant of the devil , and plead'st for his image and kingdom , and were it not that he had blinded thine eyes , thou mightst see where thou art , when thou abusest the goodness of god , that because he hath left the sins and fallings of others upon record , to the end they should be warnings to all that come after , not to do the like , and these thou mayst muse on to incourage thee on in thy sin and filthiness : and because god is mercifull to pardon sins , at what time soever they repent , therefore thou art incouraged to live in thy sins the longer unrepented of : now all who are not plainly blind , may see whose child thou art , for the apostle saith , know ye not that the long suffering of god leadeth to repentance ? it doth so to the children of god . but whose child art thou ? that scripture is fulfilled in thee , which saith because judgment is not specily executed upon evil doers , therefore their heart is set in them to work wickedness ? and thus , thou makest the mercies of god a cloak for thy unrighteous actions : and yet thou wilt talke of a redeemer , and of faith in christ : but o friend , where is this redeemer witnessed , whilst thou art yet in thy sin , what art thou redeemed from , who art in bondage to thy lusts ? and what is thy liberty thou art redeemed into , while thou art a slave to satan , and at his command ; those who are redeemed , are see free from sin , and the servitude of sin ; but thou servest sin , while tho u obeyest the motions of sin : then where is thy freedome ? canst thou witness christ died for thee , and thy sin still alive ? how wilt thou witness his death in thee , or thy self dead with him ? how hast thou put on christ , who art clad with sin , the saints who was dead with christ ? and saith paul , how can you that are dead to sin , live any longer therein ? and saith , those that are dead with christ , are free from sin ; and become servants of righteousness : and saith he , now being made free from sin , and become servants of god , ye have your fruit unto holiness , and the end everlasting life : but while thou livest in sin , thy fruit is unholy , and the end is death ; who are redeemed by christ , are redeemed from the earth and earthly things , up to god again , from whence they are fallen ; out of every kindred tongue and people , and nation , are made unto god kings and priests , to reign above sin on earth , and are made conformable unto his image again , which they had lost by sin ; but what conformity is there in thee , while thou livest in sin ? thou art not like him , but like the devil ; for every sin is the image of the devil , who sinned from the beginning ; and while thou committest sin , thou holdest out his image in thee , who is thy father , and thou his son , begotten in his own likeness . and christ told the scribes and pharisees , who professed themselves the children of god , but lived in sin , that they were of their father the devil ; for his work they will do , for every sin is the worke of the devil . and saith john , he that commits sin as of the devil ; and saith , for this purpose was the son of god manifested , to destroy the works of the devil : whosoever can witness the son of god manifested in them , can witness sin destroyed ; but if thou say thou canst witness christ manifested in thee , and yet commit sin , thou art a lyar : for , saith john , whosoever abideth in him , sinneth not ; whosoever sinneth , hath not seen him , neither known him ; for he that saith , i know him , and keepeth not his commandements , is a lyar , and the truth is not in him . and faith the holy ghost , whosoever is born of god , sinneth not , for his seed remaineth in him ; for he that is begotten of god keepeth himself , that the wicked one toucheth him not : and saith plainly , in this are the children of god made manifest , and the children of the devil ; whosoever doth not righteousness , is not of god , neither he that loves not his brother . god in all ages hath known his by their obedience , but thou sayest , thou must live in disobedience , or else thou canst not live in the world , and yet thou wouldest he accounted one of his too . but where is thy marke by which thou art known , from the world ? those which are god's , are marked , and known from the world , and therefore hated of the world , but thou art in friendship with the world , and whosoever is a friend of the world , is the enemy of god . now thou that canst conform to the worlds waies , words , and worship , and yet would be accounted one of god's too ; o thou deceiver , thou deceiver , thou deceivest but thy self , and men like thee ; thou canst not deceive the lord . take heed , repent , halt no longer between god and the world ; if thou wilt owne god , thou must disowne the world , and the world will disowne thee ; thou canst not have both , for whilst thou art striving with both , thou hast right to neither ; for all things were made for the son , both in heaven and earth , and he is heir of all , even the fulness of all , and in him are the treasures of wisdome laid up , and there is no receiving any thing without him ; witness the son , and witness all ; but no further then thou canst witness him , no further canst thou witness real possession , but seedeth on wind , words , shews , and shadows , and art deceived by the devil , that old serpent , who makes large promises , but hath nothing to perform , but deceit : for all the promises are yea and amen in christ , they are all to the seed which is the son , and to him are all the promises in the scriptures ; for he that hath the son hath the father also , and such are made free by the son : but while thou art a servant to thy lusts , tho art in sin , and art farre from a free man . now search the scriptures , and see if ever thou finde one promise to thee , whilst thou art in this condition , but that the devil deceives thee , and leades thee to steal the promises that were given to the saints , who was risen out of thy condition : but thou hast no right to them , but all the plagues and woe written , are thy portion : as thou liest in sin ▪ thou shalt drink the dregs thereof , and wring them out , except thou repent . queries . . vvhether jesus christ be not that covenant of light spoken on in the scriptures , promised by the father to enlighten and lead all that will owne and follow him out of the dark world , up to god , the father of lights , yea or no ? . whether that be not the light of christ which enlightens the conscience , witnessing there against all sin and unrighteousness , which convinceth and sheweth the deeds of darkness , and exerciseth the conscience in purity and holyness of all that will follow and obey it , or no ? . if you say that be not the light of christ , then how is christ the light of the world ? and how doth he lighten every one that cometh into the world ? and how do you distinguish between the light of christ , and that which you call a naturall light ? and doth the light of christ enlighten the creature any other way then by shining into the conscience , yea or no ? . whether the light of christ be not a sufficient guide to all who receive and follow it , to bring out of darkness unto the father , and reveal him to the creature , without adding to it any other humane helps , and was not he given to all the ends of the earth for this very end , yea or no ? . whether those that are in scripture called the children of light , be not onely such as are gathered out of darkness by this light , and into it , walking in it in measure ; and those which are called the children of darkness , be not such as whose understandings are darkened , by following the prince of darkness , to seek out other lights from their imaginations , setting up persons , forms , customs , times , dayes , places , letter and other visible carnal things to get light from , which are not the spirit of christ , yea or no ? . whether it was not by the same light of the spirit of christ , that all the holy men of god in all ages were inspired , had their revelations , and by which they spake forth what is written in scriptures , in a mystery to all the children of darkness : and whether the light of christ be not the same now , that ever it was , to every one that have received in their serveral measures , yea or no ? . whether all those who are not onely ignorant of this light , but also enemies to it , rendering it , under odious terms , as unable to lead out of darkness , be not ministers for the prince of darkness , and against christ the true light , and so are ministers of anti-christ , and upholders of the kingdom of darkness , which christ came to destroy , yea or no ? more queries . . vvhether can the scriptures be read and understood by any other spirit then that which gave them forth , yea or no ? . whether that spirit be excluded from manifesting it self in the saints now , in the same power and manner as formerly it hath done , yea or no ? . whether that spirit where it is , be not infallible , and judge of all truth , and all deceits in its measure , as it is manifested , yea or no ? . whether those who have not the spirit , which is the infallible judge , have any true ground to pass the censure of ex-communication , or to judge of blasphemy in others , yea or no ? . whether that which is spoken by that spirit where it is , be not the very word of god , yea or no ? . whether the spirit of the world , by their carnal laws , grounded upon humane wisdome and reason , have any power from god to judge that spirit where it is ? and have they not in all ages , when they have attempted it , passed the censure of , blasphemy upon it , and so it hath suffered , yea or no ? . whether that spirit be not at unity in it self , all that speak by it , speaking one and the same things , each in their measure ; and doth it not speak the same things now , that ever it spoke in the holy men of god ? and whether all that are guided by it , be not brought into one and the same way to the father , and his worship in spirit , yea or no ? . whether giving heed to any other spirits , whatever they pretend , be no : the way to delusion , and to lye open to be seduced into rent , schisme , and heresie , yea or no ? . whether any who have not this infallible spirit in themselves , which is the onely light , and guide , and judge , be fit and able to teach others ? or did the lord ever send out any to teach who hath not this spirit , yea or no ? certain queries to all you prophets that prophesie for hire , and all you priests that teach for money and bear rule by your means ; and all you shepherds that seek for your gain from your quarter : answer these , for they are given forth for the generall good of all people . . q. vvhether you will own jeremiah to be a true prophet , which cryed against the priests that bare rule by their means : and whether you will justifie these that bear rule by their means which jeremiah cryed against ? . whether you will own the prophet i say to be a true prophet of the lord , which the lord sent to cry against them that sought for their gain from their quarter : and whether you will hold up these shepherds which seek for their gain from their quarter now , as he cryed against them ? . whether you will own ezekiel to be a true prophet of the lord , which the lord sent to cry against the shepherds , which fed themselves with the fat , and cloathed with the wooll , and made a prey upon the people : and whether you will justifie these shepherds that seek for the fleece now , and for the woll , and the fat , and make prey upon the people , which ezekiel cryed woe against ? . whether you will owne micha to be a true prophet of the lord , which the lord sent to cry against the hireling priests and prophets , that preached and prophesied for money , and whether you will justifie these things now , which the lord sent him to cry woe against then ? . whether you will justifie such as jesus christ cryed woe against , which was called of men master , and had the chiefest places in the assemblies , and stood praying in the synagogues , and laid heavy burdens upon the people , and loved salutations in the markets ; and whether you will justifie these things which he cryed woe against ? . whether you will justifie sprinkling infants , seeing there is not a word of scripture to prove it ? . whether you will justifie singing davids psalms , his quakings , prayers , and tears ; and his condition turned in rime and meeter , and sung in the world , yea or no ? . whether ever any of the apostles or ministers of god did receive tythes after christ was risen , yea or no ? . whether ever any of the disciples of jesus christ , or believers that believed in him , after he was risen , did pay tythes according to the old time , after the substance was come , yea or no ? . whether these be not the teachers spoken of , which stand rayling in the pulpit , and are in envy , and sue men at the law , and are proud and covetous , be not them which goe in the way of caine ; and through covetousness make merchandise of the people ? and are they not to be cryed against now , as paul and peter did then ? . whether these be not the teachers that seek for great augmentations , and great benefits and tythes , be not as they which the scripture speaks of , which run greedily after the error of balaam , who perished in the gain-saying of cora , seeing the apostle said , he covered no mans silver nor gold , nor apparel , but wrought with his hands , that he might be example to all that followed him ? . whether they do abide in the doctrine of christ which compels people to swear , or the doctrine of the devil ? when christ saith , swear not at all , but let your yea be yea , and nay , nay , whatsoever is more , is evil . . whether the outward temple was to be held up after christ was risen , yea or no ? seeing stephen was stoned to death for witnessing against it ? . whether a man shall be made free from the body of sin , while he is upon the earth , yea or no ? . whether you will own that christ which said , be not ye called of men , master ? or whether you will be called of men , master , and so deny that christ ? . whether that was the true christ that forbid these things ? and whether you will own that christ as an example to follow him , who is the way , the light , and the truth ? an exhortation to all people that have a desire to know the truth , that the truth may make them free . every one that hath a desire to know the truth , that the truth may set you free , mind the light of god in you , that shews you sin and evil , that which checks you when you do amiss , either when you lie or swear , or are proud or covetous , or oppress , or envy , or hate , or backbite one another , or use any deceit , there is something in you that will check you , and tell you that you should not do so , if you hearken to it , that which shews you your vain thoughts , and wandring desire , and wicked imaginations , if you hearken to that , and let it guide your minds , it will turn them within , and shew you how you have spent your time , and bring you to consider of your waies and your doings , that you may forsake that which is evil , and turn to the lord , that he may have mercy upon you : this light within , if you hearken to it , it will not suffer you to do any wrong to any man , but to do to all as you would be done by ; and obeying it , it will teach you to deny your selves of pride and covetousness , and oppression , and drunkenness , and lying , and swearing , and vain talk , and foolish jesting and all vain delights and pleasures whatsoever : and minding this light within , to be obedient to it , it will cross your earthly wille , and turn you out of the lust and filth of the flesh , and lead you out of all the worlds waies , and words , and customs , and fashions , and worships , and delights , and vanities whatsoever , and bring you to delight in the lord , to do his will , in yielding obedience to his commands , in what the light doth require of you to be done , that you may cast off the works of darkness , as this light within makes them manifest to you , this light within you will not suffer you to eat and drink , to make your selves wanton ; if you harken to it , and let it guide your minds , this light within will not let you wear apparel to make your selves proud , and burthen and oppress poor creatures , if you hearken to it : and here is your teacher ▪ this light , obeying it ; and here is your condemnation , this light disobeying it , this light is not without you , a chapter or a verse , but the light is within , as it was in them that spake forth the chapters : ye have a light , to the which you do well to take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place , untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts . take heed to that light , left ye be condemned by it : obeying it , it will shew you the way to salvation ; disobeying this light , it will condemn you . now you have time , prize it , and take heed of rejecting the counsel and admonition of the lord to your souls , as you will answer it before the lord , consider of it , and lay it to heart , this is the day of your visitation . freind , d. w. my love salutes that which is pure of god in thee , mind that light of god in thy conscience which checks and reproves thee for sin and evil ; and it will turn thy mind within , and shew thee the evil of thy doings , and tell thee plainly thou ought not to act in that which is evil , this is the light which christ jesus hath enlightened every one that comes into the world withall , and this light will not onely shew thee thy evil deeds , but it will shew thee the good way which thou ought to walk in ; yeilding obedience to this light , which discovers unto thee sin and evil , it will teach thee to deny that which is evil , as the light makes it manifest unto thee in measure , and this light which christ hath given to every one to enlighten thee withall , it will not onely teach thee to deny , that which is evil , but it will teach thee to act in righteousness , and to do unto all as thou would be done by ; loving this light , thou wilt bring thy deeds to the light , that the light may prove them , and here is thy teacher present with thee , obeying it the light , and hating this light which makes manifest sin and evil , here is thy condemnation eternally . now thou hast time prize it , and put not the day of the lord afarr off , for the time past is unrecoverable , the time to come is uncertaine , the time present is thine , now while time is , improve thy talent , which the lord hath given thee , that thou mayest receive the blessing , which is , well done , thou good and faithfull servant , thou shalt be made ruler over much : but on the contrary , if thou be negligent and sloathfull , and slight the mercies of the lord to thy soule , and hide thy talent in the earth , then thou art that sloathfull servant who said christ was an austere man ; for the lord hath given every one a measure to profit withall , then thou must receive thy portion , go ye cursed into hell prepared for the devil and his angels . now it is called to day , arise and put off the old man with his deeds , for the old man must be put off with his deeds in measure , before the new man can be put on with his deeds , which is after god created in righteousness , and true holiness , therefore in the feare of god worke while it is day , for the night comes when none can worke , it is said , rejoyce o young man in thy youth ; but know for all this thou must come to judgement . now friend consider what thou art a doing , and take heed of spending thy time carelesly without the fear of god , and the lord give thee understanding that thou mayest see what thou art doing , that thou mayest chuse the good and refuse the evil . from a friend to thy soule , and to all that love the lord jesus christ in sincerity , and in truth . this was i moved to write to thee , who am a prisoner of the lord in york castle , whose name in the flesh is john killam . all friends in your several measures , dwell and abide in that which is immortall of god in you , which is begotten by the ministry of the word , which is not of the world but leads out of the world , and crucifies the world , who in it dwells this doth witness , so all to the witness keep your minds , and upon it wait , and be attentive , that you all in the tenderness may be kept , and the witness preserved , waking and alive in you , that which witnesseth with the just and righteous pure god in you , against all deceits , hypocrisie , or self-ends in you , that herein you may be preserved every one in your measures faithfull to god , who hath called you , that herein you may grow out of the world , self , flesh , and the knowledge thereof , which all defiles and perisheth , into purity , righteousness and holiness , which condemns the world , that in the true favour and discerning you may grow to sever between the precious and the vse , the clean , and the unclean , the pure , and the unpure , that you may know and owne the pure life in one another , the pure language , and the pure voice , that true judgement may pass upon that which is contrary , least for want of favour and true judgement , you joyne with the unclean spirit which spots and defiles , staines and darkens the understanding , and then slothfulness gets up , and earthly mindedness , and self-endedness , and self takes its liberty , which all staines and dishonours the truth of god , the father of truth , from whence all truth proceeds . but woe from the lord will follow the careless slothful disobedient , rebellious one , who causes offences , so all in the presence of the living god , to the witness of god in you i speake , to feare the living god of life and power , and in it dwell , that in it you may be preserved ; low and tender your minds to the measure of light ; which manifests darkness , and what out of it ariseth , which is contrary to the light , drawes from the light , and so draws from god , that in the light this may be seen , judged , and condemned : and here you are kept in your measures and daily growth , out of the world , self , flesh , or whatsoever is of the same , that all things may be given up into his will who is god over all , and creator of all , whose owne all is , and here you are kept single and free , just upright and pure every one in your measures , in the continuall exercise in a growing condition , the witness being kept waking : but i do you all warne to take heed of setting up a false rest out of light in the carnality , in the form , without the life and power , painted with the word of truth ; catched in the comprehension & talked of , such feeds death in whom death raign , and such with the light which they are turned from , are seen judged and condemned , ignorance not to be pleaded . so all tender ones , who feare the living god , and abide to the light which opens , manifests , and discovers within , that upon it you may wait for teaching , and direction , looking out at any , but every one in particular , mind the light of the lord jesus ; which hath convniced you to be your guide and teacher in all things , bringing all your thoughts , words , and actions , to the light , by it to be tryed and proved , at it to ask councel and direction , and here god alone is teacher , orderer , and mighty counceller , who is the everlasting father and prince of peace and joy ; and here true judgement is set up , which keeps in the watch and the cross , and here true peace is preserved , which stands in obedience through the cross ; and herein true favour you grow , and in the discerning and the pure wisdome you grow , in your measures , received from the fountaine which orders all , and distinguishes between the precious , and the vile , and the two seeds , and what is of the one , and what is of the other , and what to owne , and joyne with , and what to deny & cross , as in particular , so in general , and here self is kept out , and judged out , and the false voice and false language ; or any thing which separates and leads out of the obedience , out of the cross , and out of the oneness ; so here in the cross you all are kept watching over one another , and building up one another , in that which stands out of the will , and out of words ; and puts an end to words , and here is the blessing , and in your meetings the lord will be seen present , manifesting himself by his power , and so you will know of a truth he is among you ; so all as tender your eternal happiness , and prise the love of god , take heed of setting up a rest or peace out of the cross , out of the obedience , for there you settle upon the lees , and crucifies the just one in you ; and all this is but in time , and will be destroyed by that which is out of time and done away , take heed of giving way to the earthly spirit , or hearking to the earthly voyce which draws the mind from the pure eternall into the earth and earthly things ; and visible fading created objects which adulterates the heart from god , and leads away the mind and affections from the eternall , and cumbers the same , begetting earthly care for store of fading things , which are in time and which time perisheth ; which keeps out of the obedience , smothers the light , and involves in darkness , darkning the understanding , and inslaves the creature , and brings into bondage to the earth and earthly things , and captivates and covers the seed in the earth , and here is the curse and wrath and plagues which to egypt and to egypt king is due , and all this comes by carelesness , not obeying in the measure of light , which leads the affections from below out of time to god the beginning and end of all time : in whom is fullness the living fountain of all goodness , eternall riches and treasures , & here is the liberty of the children of god , who from the earth are redeemed , and this liberty you come to know every one in your measures abiding in the cross , so that which is not eternall , but leads into the snares of death , which in darkness lies , which by the light is discovered by the word , which is a lampe to the feet , and a light unto the pathes ; but take heed of using your liberty as an occasion to the flesh , for that staines , and the flesh is apt to catch its liberty by that eye and eare which is outward and leads out into the motion out of the life , and this by the light is seen and judged and condemned , so all friends to that which is eternall of god i speak , that it you may mind , and in it dwell , the light which comes from god , who is eternall , that by it your minds may be kept out of the carnall , least while you imbrace the carnall you loose the eternall ; and so in the end loose both , for time ends all things that in time is . so god almighty of wisdom and power keep you in the pure feare and awe of himself the powerfull father , all of you tender and faithfull in your measures your minds up to him , he to be your guide in all things , who leads out of the way of error , that he in all things may be glorified praised and honoured , to whom all is due , even god over all blessed for ever . i rest a friend to your soules , whose joy and delight is in your soules eternall well-fare , which was the cause of now writing : one with the life in all which comes from the father . james parnell . . day of the month . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- ezek. . jer. . . ezek. . . jer. . . isa. . ▪ , . isa. . . . , . jer. . , . mic. . . john . . . & . cor. . . deut. . . mat. . . , . cor. . . act. . . cor. . . cor. . , . gen. . . chron . . exod. ●● . , . . . acts. . ● acts . . . thes. . . ● rom. . . . cor. . , . col. . . . gal. . . heb. . . pet. . tim. . col. . . . cor. . . thes. . . cor. . , . psal. . . & . . cor. . . col. . ● . cor. . . gal. . . & . . pet. . . john . . . john . . . gen. . . luke . . . . jhon . . john . . jer. . . heb. . . cor. . ● . eph. . . gal. . . jam. . . mat. . joh. . . joh. . . rom. ● . . acts. . , , . heb. ● . 〈◊〉 . mat . ● . acts. , . jude . . eph. . . mat. . . met. . , . john . . . pet. . . . pet. . , , . jude . tim. . to . phil. . ● . & . . heb. . tim. . ioh. . ioh. . col. . . rom . , rom. . rom. . . james . . & . . isa. . . acts. . . james . . heb. . . acts. . . . psal . . thes. . . john . ●● . iob . . exod. . act. . . rom. . . ier. . . iohn . . . rom. . . iohn . . act. . eccl. . . isa. . . . dan. . . acts. . . hab. . . psal. . . eccl. . . heb. . . iohn . . . . luke . . , . & . . john . . cor. . . notes for div a e- exod. . , . luke . . . kings . . . john . , . ier. . . mat. . , . notes for div a e- iud. . rev. . . iohn . . , , , , . pet. . . iohn . . ephes. . & . , . iohn . thes. . . cor. . . cor. . , . cor. . , . col. . . iohn , . iohn . , . pet. . . . deut. . . rev. . . tim. . , . cor. . . . iohn . . acts . . cor. . . pet. . . col. . . gal. . . rom. . . mat. . , . iohn . . . , , , . cor. . . cor. . , . col. . . acts. . . cor. . , , . iohn . . . cor. . . cor. . , , . cor. . , , . rev. . . phil. . . cor. . . cor. . col. . . rom. . . iude. . rom. . . iames . . . iames . . , , , . rom. . , . micah , . . pet. . . eph. . , . cor. . . pet . . . gal. . , , . mat. . . acts. . . john . . micah . . ier. . . & . . isa. . , . pet. . , . cor. . . iude . cor. . , , . cor. . . gal. . . iohn . . , , . . iohn . . iohn . , . psal. . , . notes for div a e- gal. . . phil . . . . cor. . . . gen. . . rom. . . isa. . . cor. . . jam. . . heb. . . thes. . . heb. . , , . cor. . . mat. . . . john ● . , . cor. . ● . ier. ● . . heb . . pet. . . deut. . . rom. . . john . ● . . cor. . . col. cor. . . cor. . . john . . john . . . eph. . . john . , . . heb. . , . cor. . rom. . . cor. . . cor. . . jam. . . rom. . . john . . , . jam. . . notes for div a e- gen. . . gen. . . . john . . . , . john . . . . john . . . . cor. . . gal. . . cor. . . . mat. . . to the end . cor. . . col. . . prov. . . & . . . ephes. . , , . col. . . thes. . . to the . ephes. . . mat. . , . this is a short relation of some of the cruel sufferings (for the truths sake) of katharine evans & sarah chevers in the inquisition of the isle of malta who have suffered there above three years by the pope's authority, there to be deteined until they dye : which relation of their sufferings is come form their own hands and mouths as doth appear in the following treatise ... evans, katharine, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) this is a short relation of some of the cruel sufferings (for the truths sake) of katharine evans & sarah chevers in the inquisition of the isle of malta who have suffered there above three years by the pope's authority, there to be deteined until they dye : which relation of their sufferings is come form their own hands and mouths as doth appear in the following treatise ... evans, katharine, d. . cheevers, sarah, d. . d. b. (daniel baker), fl. - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for robert wilson, london : . a collection of letters from evans and cheevers, edited by daniel baker--cf. bm, nuc pre- imprints. "epistle to the readers" signed: dan. baker. this item appears at reel : as wing b (entry cancelled in wing nd ed.), and at reel : as wing t . reproductions of original in the henry e. huntington library and art gallery. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng cheevers, sarah, d. . evans, katharine, d. . society of friends -- malta. quakers -- persecutions -- malta. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion this is a short relation of some of the cruel sufferings ( for the truths sake ) of katharine evans & sarah chevers , in the inquisition in the isle of malta , who have suffered there above three years , by the pope's authority , there to be deteined till they dye . which relation of their sufferings is come from their own hands and mouths , as doth appear by the following treatise . these two daughters of abraham were passing to alexandria , and to cilicia ; and thus may that part of christendom see their fruits , together with the pope's , and of what birth they are ; and that those that are called christians are worse than heathens : for they falling into their hands , should have been refreshed by them with necessary things ; but the provision which the inhabitants and knights of malta , ( called christians ) provided for them , is the inquisition . now it was not so when paul suffered shipwrack there among the barbarous people ; which is a manifest token they are not in the love of god , whose fruits shew they are not in the true spirit . and this is to all fellow-brethren that are partakers with them in the power of god and have a feeling and fellowship with them in their sufferings , that they might see and know how it is with them , and what unkindness they find abroad among them that profess themselves christians . london , printed for robert wilson . an epistle to the readers . many there be among the nations in the world , that in their haste have unjustly condemned the innocent , guiltless and harmless people of the lord of hosts ( scornfully called quakers ) viz. that they are papists , jesuits , and what else , adhoring to the whorish false church of rome ; i say to such on this wise , which is my advice as a man to his friend , to whom this may come , be not hasty to judge before the time , as many do to their own hurt , guilt and condemnation , before they have a clear and right understanding of the things that differ from equity and truth , and so the nobility of the mind which should weigh and pass true sentence of sound and perfect judgment , the same being vailed with a hasty dark spirit of prejudice , or evil surmising , which gets up into the seat of enmity , and therein passeth sentence of the pure way and things of god as evil , heresie , and what else ; and thus it comes to pass , and indeed it cannot be otherwise with such that have not their minds staied and fixed in that which is perfect and true , and clear , and single , as is the clear manifestation of the grace of life , which is the light of the lord jesus shining in the heart and conscience of the sons and daughters of men ; and the same light of the lord which lightneth the poor and deceitful man's eyes , is the true measure and equal ballance , which all is to trie , and prove , and weigh words , thoughts , intents , ways , and actions , whether they be justifiable or condemnable ; and hereby with the same measure of the true spirit of god who is light , is true sentence to be passed accordingly : for if that which is perfectly true be measured with a false measure , or with an unequal ballance , it doth appear so to all that behold the same with an evil eye , or measure that with the same measure ; save onely to them that discern the measure , weight , or ballance ; as for instance as to the thing natural , if a deceitful man with a false measure , being guided by a deceivable spirit ( al-be-it his eyes are inlightned with the light of the lord , which is true ) if he measure a piece of cloth to his customer , with his deceitful measure , though the cloth be good , yet he not giving it its true measure , the simple hearted is thereby deceived , and knoweth it not till it be brought to a true measure , which doth answer the true principle , or light of god in the conscience to justification , as doth not the false , but contrariwise ; wherefore its needful , and of absolute concernment , for the mind of every man male and female , to be guided and exercised in the true manifestation of the light of jesus in the conscience ; and so blessed is the man , the people , the family that brings their deeds to the light , that they may be manifest that they are wrought in god who is light , who is truth ; and so what is here following written and published is to be tried , and proved by the witness of god in every conscience which is true , and will answer to the same things or words that springs forth from its own clear nature . therefore , when thou hast honestly read this throughout with a meek spirit of sobriety and moderation that 's single and pure , then with the same spirit of singleness , and of true discerning judge honestly , and cease from hastiness in such matters of eternity , least a place of repentance become finally hid from thine eies , not to salvation , but contrariwise , which i desire not , neither doth the lord , whose servant a living and true witness i am , for him ▪ his truth and people , of these things and much more . wherefore let the reader see hereby , how that the lord hath chosen the foolish things of this life to confound the wise , and that the living god eternal hath chosen the weak things , to confound and bring to nought the things that are mighty , subtil , and potent ; yea , base things which are so deemed despisable , and contemptible ; yet behold god hath chosen them , and things that are not approvable in the sight of the prudent of this world , even to bring to nought things that are : but may some say , wherefore , or why doth the most high , wise , invisible , immortal god do thus ? my answer is one and the same as the apostle saith , viz. that no flesh should glory in his presence , who of god is made in us wisdom , righteousness , sanctification , and redemption : and why should it be accounted such a foolish thing in the eyes of the wise men of this world , to see the wisdom of god dispensed through a weak vessel ? as is a free-born woman from above , a weaker vessel than that of the man. now tell me , oh man of understanding , what must not the spirit of christ , or the same that is begotten of god in the female , as well as in the male , what must not ( i say ) the same spirit of life from god speak , but be limited in the weaker vessel , in the foolish vessel , in the vessel which is not esteemed , but base , contemptible and despised in the eyes of lofty man that must be laid low , who excels in that wisdom and knowledge which is not from above , but otherwise , bruitish , and puffeth up the fleshly mind that 's enmity to god , and is therefore to be confounded and moved backward , and slain upon the cross , which is the power of god that crucifieth the lusts and inordinate affections of the flesh , which thereby come to be silent before the lord , who is that one and self-same spirit that is quick and powerful ; so that not any other spirit governs or rules over the members of the body , but that which created the body ; and every member , which is to have the supream authority and preheminence , as well in the female as in the male ; and so he the spirit of truth that 's to guide into all truth ; he , the man , is not he to speak , viz. christ in the male , the same in the female , where he is risen and manifest as king , priest and prophet , a guide , leader and commander in all equitable and just things which are truly honorable . but the woman was in the transgression against the spirit ; flesh lusteth against the spirit , saith the apostle ; and the woman ( that 's in the transgression ) is to be under obedience , and to be in silence , to learn in silence , and to ask her husband at home ; but what if she have a disorderly , drunken husband ( and not christ the man , the true husband , the true lord ) how can he teach her , seeing the woman is to learn of her husband in silence , and to be under obedience ( and not to usurp authority over the man ) as also saith the law , which hath dominion over all that are under it in the transgression ; but the spirit of grace and truth that 's poured upon sons and daughters , teacheth us to deny the sin , and guideth from the same , and so maketh free from its condemnation , and from under the law , to be under the grace and truth that is in the one seed christ , in the male christ , in the female , the quickning spirit , the lord from heaven ; and so who are lead and guided by this , are not under the law , which saith , the woman is not to usurp authority over the man , as also saith the able minister of the mysterie of the glory and riches of eternity , which is christ the fulness in his saints , their hope of life and glory ; but the woman is to be under obedience , as also saith the law ; yea , but they that are led by the spirit , are not under the law , so are the sons of god manifest ; yet under the grace covered ; the same grace with which the man-child , the holy child jesus was covered and filled with ; the same , and no other but that which did and doth save the saints from sin , and so from under the law , and its condemnation ; and not onely so , but also the same grace which bringeth salvation , and appeareth to all men , it teacheth them not onely to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , but also to live soberly and righteously in this present world ; and verily this grace is in them which saves and justifieth them ; and it 's not of themselves , it is the gift of god. and such are the servants of the living and true god , that have their fruits , ( and possess the same ) unto holiness ; and not onely so , but the end of the same , which is the pure manifestation of the eternal substance , to wit , everlasting life , pure , clean power , which is the excellent treasure in the earthen vessels , as saith the holy scripture , cor. . but oh ye congregations of the dead ! ye gathered churches of so many names and heads , to you sounds my voice , saying , what have ye done ? oh! how guilty do ye appear before mine eye that 's single ( in the lord's light ) of despising prohesying , and quenching the tender spirit of glory , which resteth at this day in , and upon many sons and daughters ; and behold if ye can see how they do , and have prophesied in the name of the lord , and have fore-warned you of that which is justly come to pass upon you , while many of you despised and wondered , in the days of haughtiness , and its prosperity among you . but oh my soul , how hast thou been wounded in me , whilst i have travelled and mourned over you ! and so you have been found despising that , and quenching that spirit of grace which teacheth the saints in light , and reproves for sin , and testifieth against the world , and its deeds , because they are evil . and this same spirit strived long with you , and in you , and would have arisen up in its authority , power and great glory from on high , had ye not preferred and exalted the spirit of this world in it's proper place in you , above the just and long-suffering , which is but one and the same in male and in female . oh! what have you done ? can any of you yet smite upon your thigh , and say so yet ? if ye can , enquire , enquire ye , the watchman's voice is the same it was , and not otherwise , viz. return , come ; yea , return and come to the tender spirit of holiness , and of the gentleness of christ , and his yoke of self-denial , and the daily cross , they are the two great ordinances which ye have left behind , and so the vail and the darkness has covered you , but the true israelites have light in their dwellings , and their habitations is in the best of the land of the living . wherefore my spirit saith , return , come and hearken to the lamb's voice , and now see whether ye can follow him ( or a stranger ) wheresoever he goeth ; that 's the true prophet raised up like unto moses , and obey his voice which savoureth not of this world ; for so his kingdom and servants are not . therefore beware , lest your souls be cut off from the land of the living , and ye perish in the outward observations , ( by which the kingdom cometh not ) among the congregations of the dead , where ye are yet seeking the living ; but i as a brother ( even joseph ) tell you yet again , he is not there , but is arisen from the dead , from death to life , who is the quickening spirit , the lord from heaven , over the earth , over all the land of aegypt , over the land of darkness , the same lord , the same spirit which hath done excellent things , is exalted in the new heaven , and in the new earth , wherein dwelleth righteousness ; and let the virgin-daughter of sion publish the same , even from henceforth to all generations , yea and my spirit it 's ready to say , amen . there was one that saw a little stone cut out of the mountain without hands , and he well retained his sight so long until ( in the light of the living ) he saw the same which was so little , wax so great , that it became an exceeding great mountain . verily , the beloved city is manifest , set upon a holy hill ; it cannot be hid from them that see ; the glory of god doth enlighten it , and the lamb is the light thereof , and his light is like unto a stone most precious , clear as chrystal . the fountain is opened free ; come down from on high , and thou shalt see if thou dost thirst for springs of life . to the light submit thy mind , and cease from strife , in the same to behold the bride , the lamb's wife , from the false church . dan. baker . a salutation to the whole body of the elect of god , whether gathered or scattered abroad upon the face of the earth . and tender greeting , with information from the same suffering and long suffering seed , whose earthen vessels are held in the bonds of strait captivity , under the pope's dark and cruel authority , in his inquisition in the island of malta , for the word of life , which is the living testimony of jesus , and the truth of his innocency which they hold and stand fast to , and in the same ; having already suffered more then three years in the said confinement , to the present th month of the year accounted . of the same i bear record also , and affirm to the truth , of which i am a servant , and living witness , daniel baker . o yee eternal and blessed ones , whose dwelling is on high , in the fulness of all beauty and brightness , glory and everlasting joy , happiness and peace for evermore ; we who are poor sufferers for the seed of god , in the covenant of light , life , and truth , do dearly salute and imbrace you all , according to our measures , blessing and honour and glory be given to our lord god for ever , of all who know him , who hath counted us worthy , and hath chosen us among his faithfull ones , to bear his name and to witness forth his truth , before the high and mighty men of the earth , and to fight the lords battle with his spirituall weapons , to the breaking down of strong holds , high lofty looks and vain imaginations , and spirituall wickedness in high places . the lord did give us a prosperous journey hither , and when we came to legorne , we were refreshed with friends [ who were there before us ] and they did get a passage for us ( and lodging ) but as soon as we heard of the vessel , we did feel our service . so we went into the city in the living power of the lord , and there were many tender hearts did visit us , to their comfort , and our joy : the little time we staid there we gave some of our books , and one paper : so journying towards alexandria , the captain told us that malta was in the way , and he must put in there a small time . but before we came there , our burthen was so heavy , that i was made to cry out ( saying , ) oh we have a dreadfull cup to drink at that place ! oh how am i straitned till it be accomplished ! and when we came there , the walls of the city were full of people ; some stood on the top of the walls , as if something had troubled them : before we came there we stood upon the deck of the ship , and i looked upon them , & said in my heart , shall yes destroy us : if we give up to the lord , then he is sufficient to deliver us out of their hands ; but if we d●sobey our god , all those could not deliver us out of his hand : so all fe●r of man was taken from us . the english consul came abord the ship ( as the captain said ) but we did not see him , and invited us to his house , it was the seventh or last day of the week : the next morning being moved of the lord we went a-shore , and the consul met us , and we gave him a paper , who sent us to his house , with his servant ; and when we came there at the present we well were entertained ( like princes ) their neighbours and kinssolk came in , and some jesuits , and we gave them books , they read a little , and laid them down , they were too hot ; we declared our message to them in the name of the lord , and we gave some books in the street , so they were all set on work : away went the friers to the king ( or supreme in the island ) and he would not meddle with us , but said , we were honest women , we might go about our business , and that night we went a-bord the ship again , the consul was troubled , for their snare was laid , and we felt it ; being moved of the lord we went in again the next day , and the consul having a sister in the nunnery , desired us to go there , that she might see us ; and we went to them , and gave them a book , then to the consuls we returned again , and sitting to wait to know the mind of the lord , what he would have us to do , he said we must give in the great paper ; and if we would go to save our life , we should lose it . here followeth a copy of some more words which they had written before the former was given forth . a true declaration concerning the lord's love to us in all our voyage : we were at sea , between london and plymouth , many weeks , and one day we had some trials ; and between plymouth and legorn we were . days , and we had many trials and storms within and without ; but the lord did deliver us out of all : and when we came to legorn , with the rest of our friends , we went into the town after we had product , and staid there many dayes , where we had service every day ; for all sorts of people came unto us , but no man did offer to hurt us , yet we gave them books and having got passage in a dutch ship we sayled towards cyp●us , intending to goe to alexandria , but the lord had appointed somthing for us to do by the way , as he did make it manifest to us , as i did speak , for the master of the ship had no business in the place ; but being in company with another ship which had some business at the city of malta , ( in the island of malta where paul suffered shipwrack ) and being in the harbour , on the first day of the week , we being moved of the lord , went into the town , and the english consul met us on the shore , and asked us concerning our coming , and we told him truth , and gave him some books , and a paper , and he told us there was an inquisition , and he kindly entreated us to go to his house , and said all that he had was at our service while we were there . and in the fear and dread of the lord we went , and there came many to see us , and we call'd them to repentance , and many of them were tender ; but the whole city is given to idolatry . and we went a ship-board that night ; and the next day we being moved to go into the city again , dared not to flie the cross , but in obedience went , desiring the will of god to be done . and when we came to the governor , he told us that he had a sister in the nunnary did desire to see us if we were free ; and in the fear of god we went , and talked with them , and gave them a book , and one of their priests was with us ( at the nunnery ) and had us into their place of worship , and some would have us bow to the high altar , which we did deny ; and having a great burthen , we went to the consul again , and were vvaiting upon the lord what to do , that we might know . and the inquisitors sent for us , and when vve came before them , they asked our names , and the names of our husbands , and the names of our fathers and mothers , and how many children vve had ; and they asked us , wherefore we came into that countrey ? and vve told them , we were the servants of the living god , and were moved to come and call them to repentance ; and many other questions , and they went away , but commanded that vve should be staid there . and the next day they came again , and called for us , and vve came ; but they vvould examine us apart , and called sarah , and they asked , whether she was a true catholick ? she said , that she vvas a true christian that worshippeth god in spirit and in truth ; and they proffered her the crucifix , and vvould have had her svvare that she vvould speak the truth ; and she said , she should speak the truth , but she vvould not svvear , for christ commanded her not to swear , saying , swear not at all : and the english consul persvvaded her vvith much entreating to svvear , saying , none should do her any harm : but she denied ; and they took some books from her , and vvould have had her swear by them , but she vvould not : and they asked , wherefore she brought the books ? and she said , because we could not speak their language , and they might know vvherefore vve came ; and they asked of her , what george fox was ; and she said , he vvas a minister . and they asked , wherefore she came thither ? she said , to do the will of god , as she vvas moved of the lord. and they asked , how the lord did appear unto her ? and she said , by his spirit , and they asked , where she was when the lord appeared unto her ? and she said , upon the way . and they asked , whether she did see his presence , and hear his voice ? and she said , she did hear his voice , and saw his presence ; and they asked , what he said to her ? and she said , the lord told her , she must go over the seas to do his will ; and then they asked , how she knew it was the lord ? and she said , he bid her go , and his living presence should go vvith her , and he was faithful that had promised , for she did feel his living presence ; and so they vvent away . two dayes after they came again , and called for me , and offered me the crucifix , and told me the magistrate commanded me to swear that i would speak the truth . and i told them that i should speak the truth , for i was a witness for god ; but i should not swear ; for a greater than the magistrate , saith , swear not at all , but let your yea be yea , and your nay be nay , for whatsoever is more , cometh of evil . but said they , you must obey the justice , and he commands you to swear . i said , i should obey justice , but if i should swear , i should do an unjust thing ; for ( the just ) christ said , swear not at all . and they asked me , whether i did own that christ which dyed at jerusalem ? i answered , we owned the same christ , and no other , he is the same yesterday , to day and for ever . and they asked me , what i would do at jerusalem ? said i did not knovv that i should go there , but i should go to alexandria ; and they said , what to do ? and i said , to do the will of god ; and if the lord did open my mouth , i should call them to repentance , and declare to them the day of the lord , and direct their mi●ds from darkness to light. then they asked me , whether i did tremble when i did preach ? and i told them , i did tremble when the povver of the lord vvas upon me . and they asked , whether i did see the lord with my eyes ? i said , god was a spirit , and he was spiritually discerned . that day that vve vvere had from the english consuls to the inquisition , the consul's wife brought us meat to eat , and as she past by me , i was smote with an arrovv to the heart , and i heard a voice , saying , it is finished , she hath obtained her purpose . i did not taste of her meat , but went aside , and wept bitterly . the consul did affirm to us the night before , that there was no such thing as to ensnare us ) intended ; but it was in us as fire , and our souls were heavy even unto death ; for many dayes before we saw in a vision of our going there , ( to prison ) and we said pilate would do the jews a pleasure , and wash his hands in innocency . he required a sign of me if we were the messengers of god ; and the lord gave me a sign for him , that stuck by him while he lived . the same day it was , he called me , and told me the inquisition had sent for us , and they had papers from rome , and he did hope we should be set free ; which was a lye : for he knew there was a room prepared for us . and there came a man with a black rod , and the chancellor , and the consul , and had us before their lord inquisitor , and he asked us , whether we had changed our minds yet ? we said , nay , we should not change from the truth . he asked , what new light we talkt of ? we said , no new light , but the same the prophets and apostles bare testimony to . then he said , how came this light to be lost ever since the primitive times ? we said , it was not lost , men had it still ( in them ) but they did not know it , by reason that the night of apostacy had , and hath overspread the nations , then he said , if we would change our minds , and do as they would have us to do , we should say so , or else they would use us as they pleased . we said , the will of the lord be done . and he arose up , and went his way with the consul , and left us there . and the man with the black rod , and the keeper , took us , and put us into an inner room in the inquisition , which had but two little holes in it for light or air ; but the glory of the lord did shine round about us . after the consul came with tears in his eyes , and said he was as sorry as for his own flesh ; but there was some hopes in time ; and so he vvent avvay , but never had peace vvhile he lived . he would have given up the thirty pieces of silver again , but it would not be received ; the witness was risen much in him , but slavish fear possest him . this was upon the sixt day of the week , and our stomacks were taken away from all meat . the next second day came a magistrate , two fryars , and the man with the black rod , and a scribe , and the keeper , to the inquisition , to sit upon judgement , and examined us apart concerning our faith in christ. the magistrate would have had us to swear , and we answered , no ; christ said , swear not at all ; and so said james the apostle . he asked , if we would speak truth ? we said , yea . he asked , whether we did believe the creed ? we said , we did believe in god , and in jesus christ , which was born of the virgin mary , and suffered at jerusalem under pilate , and arose again from the dead the third day , and ascended to his father , and shal come to judgement , to judge both quick and dead . he asked , how we did believe the resurrection ? we answered , we did believe that the just and the unjust should arise , according to the scriptures . he said , do you be●ieve in the saints , and pray to them ? we said , we did believe the communion of saints ; but we did not pray to them , but to god onely , in the name of jesus christ. he asked , whether we did believe in the catholick church ? we said , we did believe the true church of christ ; but the word catholick we have not read in scripture . he asked , if we believed a purgatory ? we said , no ; but a heaven and a hell. the fryar said , we were commanded to pray for the dead ; for those that were in heaven had no need ; and they that were in hell there is no redemption ; therefore there must be a purgatory . he asked , if we believed their holy sacrament ? we said , we never read ( the word ) sacrament in scripture . the fryar replied , where we did read in our bibles sanctification , it was sacrament in theirs . he said , their holy sacrament was bread and wine , which they converted into the flesh and blood of christ by the virtue of christ. we said , they did work miracles then , for christ's virtue is the same as it was when he turned water into wine at the marriage in canaan . he said , if we did not eat the flesh , and drink the blood of the son of god , we had no life in us . we said , the flesh and blood of christ is spiritual , and we do feed upon it daily ; for that which is begotten of god in us , can no more live without spiritual food , than our temporal bodies can without temporal food . he said , that we did never hear masse . we said , we did hear the voice of christ , he onely had the words of eternal life , and that was sufficient for us . he said , we were hereticks and heathens . we said , they were hereticks that lived in sin and wickedness , and such were heathens that knew not god. he asked about our meetings in england ? and we told them the truth to their amazement . and they asked , who was the head of our church ? we said , christ. and they asked , what george fox is . and we said , he is a minister of christ. they asked , whether he sont us ? we said , no , the lord did move us to come . the fryar said , we were deceived , and had not the faith ; but we had all virtues . we said , that saith was the ground from whence virtues do proceed , they said , if we would take their holy sacrament , we might have our liberty , or else the pope would not leave us for millions of gold , but we should lose our souls and our bodies too . we said ▪ the lord had provided for our souls , and our bodies were freely given up to serve the lord. they askt us , if we did not believe marriage was a sacrament ? we said , it was an ordinance of god. they ask't us , if we did believe men could forgive sins ? we said none could forgive sins but god onely . they brought us that scripture , whose sins ye remit-in earth , shall be remitted in heaven . we said , all power was god's , and he could giv● it to whom he would ( that were born of the eternal spirit , and guided by the same ; such have power to do the fathers will , as i answered a fryar also in the city of naples ) and they were silent , the power greatly working . we asked them wherein we had wronged them , that we should be kept prisoners all dayes of our lives , and said , our innocent blood would be required at their hands . the fryar said , he would take our blood upon him , and our journey into turky too . we told him , the time would come he would find he had enough upon him without it . they said , the popes was christ's vicar , and we were of his church , and what he did , was for the good of our souls . we answered , the lord had not committed the charge of our souls to the pope , nor to them ; for he had taken them into his own possession , glory was to his name for ever . they said , we must be obedient . we said , we were ( obedient ) to the government of christ's spirit . the fryar said , none had the true light but the catholicks ; the light that we had , was the spirit of the devil , we said , wo to him that calleth jesus accursed : can the devil give power over sin and iniquity ? then he would destroy his own kingdom . he said , we were laught at , and mockt at of every one . we said , what did become of the mockers ? it was no matter . he said , we did run about to preach , and had not the true faith. we said , the true faith is held in a pure conscience void of offence towards god and man ; and we had the true faith. and he said , there was but one faith , either theirs or ours ; and askt us which it was ? we said , every one had the true faith , that did believe in god , and in jesus whom he had sent , but they that say they do believe , and do not keep his commandments , are lyars , and the truth is not in them . he said it was true ; but he did thirst daily for our blood , because we would not turn , and urged us much about our faith and sacrament , to bring us under their law ; but the lord preserved us . they said , it was impossible we could live long in that hot room . so the next week-day they sate in council ; but oh how the swelling sea did rage , and the proud waves did foam even unto the clouds of heaven , and proclamation was made at the prison-gate , we did not know the words , but the fire of the lord flamed against it , [ k. ] my life was smitten , and i was in a very great agony , so sweat was as drops of blood , and the righteous one was laid into a sepulcher , and a great stone was roll'd to the door ; but the prophesie was , that he should arise again the third day , which was fulfilled . but the next day they came to sit upon judgement again , [ but i say , in the true judgement they sate not , but upon it they got up unjustly above the righteous , and upon the same they sate ; a child of wisdom may understand ] and they brought many propositions written in a paper , but the fryar would suffer the magistrate to propound but few to us , for fear the light would break forth ; but they askt how many friends of ours were gone forth in the ministry , and into what parts . we told them what we did know . they said , all that came where the pope had any thing to do , should never go back again . we said , the lord was as sufficient for us , as he was for the children in the fiery furnace , and our trust was in god. they said , we were but few , and had been but a little while , and they were many countreys , and had stood many hundred years , and wrought many miracles , and we had none . we said , we had thousands at our meetings , but none ( of us ) dare speak a word , but as they are eternally moved of the lord ; and we had miracles , the blind receive their sight , the deaf do hear , and the dumb do speak , the poor do receive the gospel , the lame do walk , and the dead are raised . he asked , why i lookt so ; whether my spirit was weak ? i said , nay , my body was weak , because i eat no meat , [ it was in their lent ] he offered me a license to eat flesh . i said , i could not eat any thing at all . the terrors of death were strongly upon me ; but three nights after , the lord said unto me , about the th . hour , arise , and put on your clothes ; i said , when vilt thou come lord ? he said , whether at midnight , or at cock-crow , do thou watch . my friend and i arose , and the lord said , do stand at the door . and we stood at the door in the power of the lord , i did scarce know whether i was in the body , or out of the body ; and about the th . hour there came many to the prison-gate ; we heard the keys , and looked when they would come in : they ran to and fro till the th . hour ; the lord said , he had smote them with blindness , they could not find the way . and we went to bed , there i lay night and day for . days together , fasting and sweating , that my bed was wet , and great was our affliction . the tenth day of my fast there came two fryars , the chancellor , the man with the black rod , and a physician , and the keeper ; and the fryar commanded my dear friend to go out of the room , and he came and pull'd my hand out of the bed , and said , is the devil so great in you , that you cannot speak ? i said , depart from me thou worker of iniquity , i know thee not ; the power of the lord is upon me , and thou call'st him devil . he took his crucisix to strike me in the mouth ; and i said , look here ! and i asked him , whether it were that cross which crucified paul to the world , and the world unto him ? and he said , it was , i denied him , and said , the lord had made me a witness for himself against all workers of iniquity . he bid me be obedient , and went to strike me : i said , wilt thou strike me ? he said , he would . i said , thou art out of the apostles doctrine , they were no strikers ; i deny thee to be any of them who went in the name of the lord. he said , he had brought me a physician in charity . i said , the lord was my physician , and my saving-health . he said i should be whipt , and quartered , and burnt that night in malta , and my mate too ! wherefore did we come to teach them ? i told him i did not fear , the lord was on our side , and he had no power but what he had received ; and if he did not use it to the same end the lord gave it him , the lord would judge him . and they were all smitten as dead men , and went away . and as soon as they were gone , the lord said unto me , the last enemy that shall be destroyed , is death ; and the life arole over death , and glorified god. the fryar went to my friend , and told her , i called him worker of iniquity . did she , said sarah ? art thou without sin ? he said he was ; then she hath wronged thee . [ but i say the wise reader may judge : ] for between the eighth and ninth hour in the evening , he sent a drum to proclaim at the prison gate ; we know not what it was , but the fire of the lord consumed it . and about the fourth hour in the morning they were coming with a drum and guns ; and the lord said unto me , 〈◊〉 out of thy grave-clothes : and we arose ; and they came up to the gate to devour us in a moment . but the lord lifted up his standard with his own spirit ( of might ) and made them to retreat , and they fle● as dust before the wind praises and honour be given to our god for ever . i went to bed again , and the lord said unto me , herod will seek the yong childes life to destroy it yet again ; and great was my affliction ; so that my dear fellow and labourer in the work of god , did look every hour when i should depart the body for many days together , and we did look every hour when we should be brought to the stake day and night , for several weeks , and isaac was freely offered up . but the lord said , he had provided a ram in the bush. afterwards the fryer came again with his physician ; i told him , that i could not take any thing , unless i was moved of the lord. he said , we must never come forth of that room while we lived , and we might thank god and him it was no worse , for it was like to be worse . we said , if we had died , we had died as innocent as ever did servants of the lord. he said , it was well we were innocent . they did ( also ) look still when i would dye . the fryer bid my friend take notice what torment i would be in at the houre of death , thousands of devils ( he said ) would fetch my soule to hell. she said , she did not fear any such thing . and he asked if i did not think it expedient for the elders of the church to pray over the sick ? i said , yea , such as were eternally moved of the spirit of the lord. he fell down of his knees and did howle , and wish bitter wishes upon himself if he had not the true faith ; but we denied him . the physitian was in a great rage at sarah ; because she could not bow to him , but to god onely . the last day of my fast i began to be a hungry , but was afraid to eat , the enemy was so strong ; but the lord said unto me , if thine enemy hunger , feed him ; if he thirst , give him drink , in so doing thou shalt heap coales of fire upon his head ; be not overcome of evil , but overcome evil with good . i did eat , and was refreshed , and glorified god ; and in the midst of our extremity the lord sent his holy angels to comfort us , so that we rejoiced and magnified god ; and in the time of our great trial , the sun and earth did mourn visibly three dayes , and the horror of death and pains of hell was upon me ▪ the sun was darkned , the moon was turned into blood , and the stars did fall from heaven , and there was great tribulation ten dayes , such as never was from the beginning of the world ; and then did i see the son of man coming in the clouds , with power and great glory , triumphing over his enemies ; the heavens were on fire , and the elements did melt with fervent heat , and the trumpet sounded out of sion , and an allarum was struck up in jerusalem , and all the enemies of god were called to the great day of battle of the lord , and i saw a great wonder in heaven , the woman cloathed with the sun , and had the moon under her feet , and a crown of . stars upon her head , and she travelled in pain ready to be delivered of a man-child , and there was a great dragon stood ready to devour the man-child as soon as it was born ; and there was given to the woman two wings of a great eagle to carry her into the desert , where she should be nourished for a time , times , and half a time ; and the dragon cast a flood out of his mouth , &c. and i saw war in heaven , michael and his angels against the dragon and his angels , and the lamb and his army did overcome them ; and there was a trumpet sounded in heaven , and i heard a voice saying to 〈◊〉 , the city is divided into three parts ; and i heard another trumpet sounding , and i looked and saw an angel go down into a great pool of water , and i heard a voice saying unto me , whosoever goeth down next after the troubling of the waters , shall be healed of whatsoever disease he hath . and i heard another trumpet sounding , and i heard a voice , saying , babylon is fallen , is fallen , babylon the great is fallen . and i looked , and saw the smoke of her torment , how it did ascend ; and i heard another trumpet sounding , and i heard a voice saying , rejoice and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in heaven ; for he that is mighty hath magnified you , and holy is his name ; and from henceforth all generations shall call you blessed : and i heard another trumpet sounding in heaven , and j heard a voice saying unto me , behold● and j looked , and j saw pharoah ▪ and his host pursuing the children of israel , and he and his host were drowned in the sea. dear friends and people , whatsoever j have written , it 's not because it is recorded in the scripture , or that j have heard of such things ; but in obedience to the lord j have written the things which i did hear , see , tasted and handled of the good word of god , to the praise of his name for ever . and all this time my dear sister in christ jesus was in as great affliction as i ( in a manner ) to see my strong travel night and day ; yet she was kept in the patience , and would willingly have given me up to death , that i might have been at rest ; yet she would have been left in as great danger , wo and misery , as ever was any poor captive for the lord's truth ; for they did work night and day with their divinations , inchantments and temptations , thinking thereby to bring us under their power ; but the lord prevented them every way , so that great was their rage , and they came of ten with their physician , and said it was in charity ; i askt them whether they did keep us in that hot room to k●ll us , and bring us a physician to make us alive . the fryar said , the inquisitor would lose his head if he should take us thence ; and it was better to keep us there , than to kill us . the room was so hot and so close , that we were fain to rise often out of our bed , and lie down at a chink of their door for air to fetch breath ; and with the fire within , and the heat without , our skin was like sheeps leather , and the hair did fall off our heads , and we did fail often ; our afflictions and burthens were so great , that when it was day we wished for night ; and when it was night we wished for day ; we sought death , but could not find it ; we desired to die , but death fled from us ▪ we did eat our bread weeping , and mingled our drink with our tears . we did write to the inquisitor , and laid before him our innocency , and our faithfulness , in giving our testimony for the lord amongst them ; and i told him , if it were our blood they did thirst after , they might take it any other way , as well as to smother us up in that hot room . so he sent the fryar , and he took away our ink-horns , ( they had our bibles before ) we asked why they took away our goods ? they said , it was all theirs , and our lives too , if they would . we asked , how we had forfeited our lives unto them ; they said , for bringing books and papers . we said , if there were any thing in them that was not true , they might write against it . they said , they did scorn to write to fools and asses that did not know true latine . and they told us , the inquisitor would have us separated , because i was weak , and i should go into a cooler room ; but sarah should abide there . i took her by the arm , and said , the lord hath joined us together , and wo be to them that should part us . i said , i rather chuse to dye there with my friend , than to part from her . he was smitten , and went away , and came no more in five weeks , and the door was not opened in that time . then they came again to part us ; but i was sick , and broken out from head to foot . they sent for a doctor , and he said , we must have air , or else we must dye . so the lord compelled them to go to the inquisitor , & he gave order for the door to be set open six hours in a day ; they did not part us till ten weeks after : but oh the dark clouds and the sharp showers the lord did carry us through ! death it self had been better than to have parted in that place . they said , we corrupted each other , and that they thought when we were parted , we would have bowed to them . but they found we were more stronger afterwards than we were before ; the lord our god did fit us for every condition . they came and brought a scourge of small hemp , and asked us , if we would have any of it . they said , they did whip themselves till the blood did come . we said , that could not reach the devil , he sate upon the heart . they said , all the men and women of malta were for us , if we would be catholicks , for there would be none like unto us . we said , the lord had changed us into that which changed not . they said , all their holy women did pray for us , and we should be honored of all the world if we would turn . vve said , we were of god , and the whole world did lye in wickedness ; and we denied the honor of the world , and the glory too . they said , we should be honored of god too , but now we were hated of all . we said , it is an evident token whose servants we are ; the servant is not greater than the lord , and that scripture was fulfilled which saith , all this will i give thee , if thou wilt fall down and worship me . upon a first day of the week , we were fasting and waiting upon the lord till the second hour ( after mid-day ) and the fryars came and commanded us in the name of the lord to kneel down with them to prayer . we said , we could not pray but as we were moved of the lord. they commanded us the second time . then they kneeled down by our bed side , and prayed , and when they had done , they said , they had tryed our spirits , now they knew what spirit we were of . we told told them , they could not know our spirit , unless their minds were turned to the light of the lord jesus in their consciences . the english fryar was wrath , and shewed us his crucifix , and bid us loook there . we said , the lord saith , thou shalt not make to thy self the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above , or in the earth beneath , nor in the water under the earth ; thou shalt not bow to them nor worship them , but i the lord thy god only . he was so mad , he called for the irons to chain sarah , because she spake so boldly to him : she bowed her head , and said to him , not onely my feet , but my hands and my neck also for the testimony of jesus . his wrath was soon appeased , and he said , he would do us any good he could ; he did see what we did was not in malice , the power had broken him down for that present ; they came to us often , saying , if you would do but a little , you should be set at liberty ; but you will do nothing at all , but are against every thing . we said , we are against nothing that is of god , but would do any thing that might make for god's glory . many did think we should not have been heard nor seen after we were in the inquisition ▪ but the lord did work wonderfully for us and his truth : for they new built the inquisition , and there were many labourers for a year and a half , and the great men came to see the building ; and we were carried forth with great power to declare in the name of the lord jesus , not fearing the face of man ; the lord was our strength . but behold they threatned us with irons and halters , for preaching the light so boldly , and they said , none ought to preach but prelates to a bishop , ( as they use to say in england . ) now their lord inquisitor ( so called ) and the magistrates were kept moderate towards us , and gave order , we should have ink and paper to write to england . but we were hindered still ; and vve do believe they would have set us at liberty , had it not been for the fryars ; it was they that wrought against us still to the pope and to the inquisitor ; and we told them so . they sought three quarters of a year to part us , before they could bring it to pass ; and when they did part us , they prepared a bed for sarah , and their own catholicks lay upon the boards , that had not beds of their own . when we were parted , the lord would not suffer me to keep any money , i knew not the mind of god in it . their fryars came and said , we should never see one anothers faces again , but the inquisitor should send me my food . but the lord would not suffer him to send it . sarah did send me such as she could get neare three weeks : then the fryar came and askt me , what i did want ? i said , one to wash my linnen , and something hot to eat ; i was weak . he sent to sarah to know if she would do it for me . she said she would . and by that means we did hear of each other every day . the fryar said . you may free your self of misery when you will ; you may make your self a catholick , and have your freedom to go where you will. i told him , i might make my self a catholick , and have a name that i did live , when i was dead ▪ and said , he had catholicks enough already ; he should bring some of them to the light in their consciences , that they might stand in awe , and sin not . he said , he would lose one of his fingers if we would be catholicks . i said , it was babylon that was built with blood , sion was redeemed through judgement . they would have had me to a picture set at my beds head ▪ for a representation . i askt them if they did think i did lack a calf to worship ? and whether they did not walk by the rule of scripture ? the fryar said , they did , but they had traditions too . i said , if their traditions did derogate or discent from the fundamentals of christ's doctrine , the prophets and apostles , i denied them in the name of the lord. he said , they did not . i askt him where they had their rule to burn them that could not join with them for conscience ? he said , st. paul did worse , he gave them to the devil , and that they did judge all damned that were not of their faith. and he askt whether vve did judge them so ? i said , no , we had othervvise learned christ. i askt him vvhy they did bind that vvhich the lord did not bind ? and set tyes , chains and limits , where the lord did not ? as in meats and drinks , or in respect of dayes or times , vvhich the apostle called beggarly elements , and rudiments of the w●rld , and forbidding to marry , ( a doctrine of devils said i. ) he could not tell vvhat to say , but told me , that saint peter was the pope of rome , and did build an altar there ; and the pope was his successor ; and he could do what he would . i denied that , and said , we never read any such thing in scripture ▪ for peter christ's apostle had no money to build altars , he himself did offer sacrifice upon the altars made vvithout hands . and he said , we were but a few , and risen up but late , and they were many , and had stood fourteen hundred years , and god was a lyar if they had not the true faith ; for he had confirmed it to them by a thousand miracles . i said , the fevv number , and the little flock is christ's flock . he askt if vve vvere ? then all the world , said he . i said , our saith was from the beginning . abol was of our church ; and the world by wisdom did not know god. he went to sarah with the same temptation , and she told him also , that abel was of our church . he said abel was a catholick , and cain and judas were so . she said , then the devil was a catholick , and she would not be one he threatned her , and told her how many they were . she said , daniel was but one ; and if there were no more but she her self , she would not turn ; but took her fingers and shewed them , if they would tear her joint-meal , she did believe the lord would enable her to endure it for the truth . so they went from one to another thinking to entangle us in our talk ; but we were guided by one spirit , and spake one and the same thing in effect , so that they had not a ●ot nor tittle against us , but for righteousness sake : our god did keep us by his own power and holiness out of their hands ; honor and praises be given to his powerful name for ever he ( the said fryar ) came to me another time like a bear robbed of her whelp● , and told me , if i would be a catholick , i should say so ; otherwise they would use me badly , and i should never see the face of sarah again , but should dye by my self , and a thousand devils should carry my soul to hell. i asked him if he were the messenger of god to me . he said he was . i said , what is my sin ? or wherein have i provoked the lord , that he doth send me such a strait message ? he said , because i would not be a catholick , i said , i deny thee and thy message too , and the spirit which spake in thee , the lord never spake it . he said , that he would lay me in a whole pile of chains , where i should see neither sun nor moon . i said , he could not separate me from the love of god in christ jesus , lay me where he would . he said , he would give me to the devil . i said , i did not fear all the devils in hell , the lord was my keeper ; though he had the inquisition , with all the countreys round about , on his side , and was alone by my self , i did not fear them ; if there were thousands more , the lord was on my right hand , and the work they could do , was but to kill the body , they could not touch my life no more than the devil could job's . he said , that i should never go out of that room alive . i said , the lord was sufficient to deliver me : but whether he would or would not , i vvould not forsake a living fountain to drink at a broken cistern : and they had no law to keep us there , but such a law as ahab had for naboth's vinyard . he curst himself , and call●d upon his gods and went forth , and as he was making fast the door , he put in his hand at the hole of the door and said , abide there member of the devil . i said ▪ the devil 's me●bers did the devil's work ; the woes and plagues of the lord would be upon them for it . he went and told the inquisitor of it , and he ●aught at him : saw it , and felt it in that which is eternal . i vvas moved out of that room before he came aga●n , and vvhen he came , he brought one of the inquisitors men vvith him , and tvvo very good hens , and said , the lord inquisitor had sent them in love to me . i said , his love i did receive , but i could not take his ●ens , for it was not the practice o● the servant of the lord to be chargeable to any while they have of their own . he said , we must not count anything our own ; for in the primitive times they did sell their possessions , and laid them down at ●he apostles feet . he said , we should not want any thing if they did spend a thousand crowns . i believe he would have had us lay down our money at his feet . he sa●d i was proud , be●ause i would not take the inquisitors hens when he sent them me in charity . i asked whether he kept me in prison , and sent me his charity . he said , it was for the good of our souls he kept us in prison . i told him , our souls were out of the inquisitors reach or his either , he told me before , if we had not been going to preach , we m●ght have gone where we would . i askt him ▪ what should our souls have done then and vvhy their love shou●d extend mo●● to us , than to their own family ? they could not charge us vvith ●in and they did commit all manner of sin ; they might put them into the inquisition and bid turn . he said again we had not the true faith , and shew'd me his cruc●fix , and ask● me if i thought he did worship that ? i askt him what he did do with it ? he said it was a represen●ation . j said , it did not represent christ , for he vvas the expres● image of his father's glory , which 〈◊〉 light and life . j said ▪ it he could put any life in any of his images , he might bring them to me . and j 〈◊〉 him vvhat representation daniel had in the lyons●d●n ; or jonas in the whales b●lly . they oryed unto the lord , and he d●livered ●h●m . he said , i talks like a mad woman , i talks so much against their idols . he was in a rage , and said , he would give me to the devil . j bid him give his own , j am the lords . he stood up , and said ▪ he would do by me as the apostles did by ananias and saphira . he stood up and opened his mouth ; and i stood up to him and denied him in the name of the lord , the living god , and said he had no power over me . and away he went to sarah with the hen● , and told her that i was sick , and the lord inquisitor had sent two hens , and i would be glad to eat a piece of one if she should dress one of them presently and the other to morrow . [ mark , this deceiver ! this lyar ▪ ] but she standing in the counsel of the lord , answered him accordingly as did ; and he carried them away again . we did not dare to take them , the lord did forbid us . he said , you would fain be burned , because you would make the world believe you did love god so well as to suffer in that kind . i said , j did not desire to be burnt but if the lord did call me to it j did believe he would give me power to undergo it for his truth ; and if every hair of my head was a body , j could offer them up all for the testimony of jesus . he came twice to know whether i had not been inspired of the holy ghost to be a catholick since i came into the inquisition . j said , no ; he said , we were ; he said , we called the spirit of the holy ghost the sipirit of the devil . we said , the spirit of the holy ghost in us will resist the devil . we told him the inspiration of the holy ghost was never wrought in the will of man , nor in man's time , but in the will of god , and in god's time . he asked , how we did know a clean from an unclean spirit ? we said , an unclean spirit did burden the seed of god , and dam up the springs of life ; and a clean spirit would open the springs of life , and refresh the seed , it was a riddle to him , but he said it was true : he would assent to pure truth sometimes we asked him ▪ whether every man and woman d●d not stand guilty before god of all the sins they ever committed be●ore regeneration ? he said , yea. and he did confess all their learning and languages ( in their places ) was but to serve the lord. we told him , all their praying , preaching and ●rouding was no more accepted than cain's sacrifice , unless they were moved of the eternal spirit of the lord. we askt him , if he that was in them , was greater than he that was in us ; and why they had not overcome us all that time ? we were very sensible of their workings day and night . he said , because we resisted still . we askt him for our bibles ? he said , we should never see them again , they were false . we said , if they were conjuring books , they had no warrant from the lord to take them from us . they always came two fryars at a time , and they would fall down and howl , and wish bitter wishes upon themselves if they were not in the truth . we would deny them , and preach truth to them , the light of the lord jesus in the consciences of every one , to lead them to a pure life , and did ask them where the pure and holy life was , and what all of them did do , that the people did live in sin and all manner of wickedness ? and whether words and forms would serve without life and power ? he was as bloody a fiery serpent , as ever was born of a woman , and did strike as hard at our lives , & would hold up his hand often to strike us , but had never the power , he would quickly be cut down , that he would say , we were good women , and he would do us any good . he was compell'd to work for us sometimes , and would say it was for god's sake , and would have us thank him for it . we would tell him , those that did any thing for god , did not look for a reward from man. he said , we were the worst of all creatures , and we should be used worse than any ; the turks , arminians , protestants and lutherans should be used better than we . we said , the pure life was ever counted the worst , and we must suffer ; we were the lords , and could trust him ; let him do what he would vvith us , vve did not fear any evil tydings ; vve vvere setled and grounded in the truth ; and the more they did persecute us , the more stronger vve did grovv ; we vvere bold and valiant for god's truth , that vvhatsoever we did suffer , vve could not fear . we were separated two years ; i had neither fire nor candle in that time above two hours , none did bring me any , nor i had not freedom to call for any . the fryars went to sarah , and told her , if she would , she should go forth of the prison , and say nothing , nor do nothing . she said , she vvould upon that account . he said , they vvould come in the morning , and so they did ; but the lord saw their deceit , and forewarned sarah , and bid her mind esau , who sold his birth right for a morsel of meat ; and judas , that betrayed his master for thirty pieces of silver : that when they came , she ( vvas strengthned against them , and ) said , she stood in the counsel of god , and could take up nothing in her ovvn vvill ; they had not povver to have her forth . they said the inquisitor said , if we did want linnen , woollen , stockins , shooes or money , vve should have it . but there was a poor english man heard that sarah was in a room vvith a windovv next the street , it vvas high ; he got up , and spake a few vvords to her ; and they came violently & hall'd him down , and cast him into prison upon life and death : and the fryars came to know of us vvhether he had brought any letters . we said no ; i did not see him . they said , they did think he would be hang'd for it . he was one that they had taken from the turks , and made a catholick of him . sarah wrote a few lines to me of it , and said she did think the english fryars were the chief actors of it , ( we had a private way to send to each other . ) i vvrote to her again , and after my salutation , i said , whereas she said the fryars vvere the chief actors , she might be sure of that , for they did hasten to fill up their measures ▪ but i believe the lord wil preserve the poor man for his love : i am made to seek the lord for him with tears : and i desired she would send him something once a day , if the keeper vvould carry it ; and i told her of the glorious manifestations of god to my soul , for her comfort , so that i was ravished vvith love , and my beloved was the chiefest of ten thousands ; and how i did not fear the face of any man , though i did feel their arrows , for my physician is nigh me ; and how i was vvaiting upon the lord , and saw our safe return into england , and i was talking with g. f. to my great refreshment : the name of g. f. did pr●ck them to the heart . i said , it vvas much they did not tempt us with money . i bid her take heed , the light vvould discover it , and many more things , let it come under what cover it vvould . and this paper came to the fryar's hands , by vvhat means vve could never tell , but as the light did shew us ; the lord vvould have it so ; it smote the fryar , that he vvas tormented many days , and he translated it into ●talian , and laid it before their lo●d inquisitor , and got the inquisitor's lievtenant , and came to me with both the papers in his hand , and askt me if i could read it ? j said , yea , i writ it . o! did you indeed ! ( said he ) and what is it you say of me here ? that which is truth said i. then he said , where is the paper sarah sent ? bring it , or else i will search the i runk , and every where else . j bid him search where he vvould . he said , i must tell what man it was that brought me the ink , or else i should be tyed with chains presently . j told him had j done nothing but vvhat vvas just and right in the sight of god , and vvhat j did suffer vvould be for truth 's sake ; and j did not care ▪ j vvould not meddle nor make with the poor workmen . he said , for god's sake tell me what sarah did write ? j told him a few vvords , and said it was truth . said he , you say it is much we do not tempt you with money . and in few hours they came and tempted us with money often . so the lieutenant took my ink and threw it away ; and they were smitten as if they vvould have fallen to the ground , and vvent their vvay . j saw them no more in three weeks ; but the poor man vvas set free the next morning . they went to sarah , and told her that i had honestly confest all , and that she was best to confess too ; and threatned her with a halter , and to take away a bed and trunk , and her money , to have half of it for me ▪ she answered , she might not send to me any more . she ask● him ▪ whether he was a min●ster of christ , or a magistrate ? 〈◊〉 he vvere a magistrate , he might take her money , but she vvould not give it him : and they that were vvith him , said , no , he should not meddle with any thing . he was a bitter wicked man. he told her , she was possest . she answered and said , she was with the povver of an endless life . the lord was not vvanting to us at any time , for povver nor words to stop the mouths of gain-sayers of his truth ▪ neither in revelations nor visions ; praises be to his name for ever . he kept us in our weakest condition , bold for his truth , declaring against all sin and wickedness , so that many were convinced , but did not dare to own it , for fear of faggot and fire . there were none that had any thing to say against vvhat vve spake , but t●e fryers , but would have us to join with them . there were none did come into the inquisition but the judgements of the lord vvould be upon them ; so that they vvould cry and foam , and send for a physi●ian many of them . the unclean spirits would cry out as much as ever they did against jesus , and would gnash with heir teeth when vve were at prayer ; there was a fryer and other great men , the fryer would run as if he had been at his wits end , and call to the keeper , and he vvould run for the english fryer , and he would go the jnquisitor for counsel , and sometime they would send them word they should have a remedy , j should be sent to rome ; and sometimes the fryers would come , but had not power to say any thing to me of it ) the lord did say to us , cut up your uoice like the noise of a trumpet , and sound forth my truth like the shout of a king. there was one that life wa● arisen in him but they were upon him as eagles til they had destroy'd him ; he did undergo terrible judgements all the time he was in the inquisition . our money served us a year and seven weeks ; and when it was almost gone , the fryars brought the inquisitor's chamberlain to buy our hats . we said , we came not there to sel our clothes , nor any thing we had . then the fryar did commend us for that , and told us we might have kept our money to serv● us otherwise . we said ▪ no we could not keep any money , and be chargeable to any ; we could trust god. he said , he did see we could ; but they should have maint●ined us while they kept us prisoners . and then the lord d●d take away our stomacks ; we did eat but little for three or four weeks ; and then the lord called us to fasting for eleven dayes together , but it was so little , that the fryars came and said , that it was impossible that creatures could live with so little meat , as they did see we did for so long time together ; and asked what we would do ? a●d said their lord inquisitor said , we might have any thing we would . we said , we must wait to know the mind of god , what he would have u● to do . we did not fast in our own wills but in obedience to the lord. they were much troubled , and sent us meat , and ●aid ●he english consul sent it . we could not take any thing till the lord's time was come . we were weak , so that sarah did d●ess her head a● she would lye in her grave , ( poor lamb ) j ●ay looking for the lord to put an end to the sad trial which way to seemed 〈◊〉 in his ●ight . then j hea●d a voice , saying , ye shall not dye . j be●i●ved the lord , and his glory did appear much in our●ast ; he was very gracious to us , and did refresh us with his living presence continually , and we did behold his beauty to our great ●oy and c●mfort , and he was large to us in his prom●ses , so that we were kept quiet and still , ( the sting of death be in : taken away ▪ ) our souls , hearts and minds were at p●ace with the lord , so that they could not tell whether we were dead or alive but as they d●d ▪ all to us once a day , till the time the lord had appointed we should eat ; and they were made to bring many good things , and said them down by us ; so that scripture we witnessed fulfilled , our enemies treated us kindly in a strange land , said i. but we were afraid to eat , and cryed to the lord , and said , we had rather dye , than eat any thing that is polluted and unclean . the lord said unto me , thou mayest as freely eat , as if thou hadst wrought for it with thy hands ; i will sanctifie it to thee through the cross. and he said to sarah , thou shalt eat the fruit of thy hands , and be blessed . we did eat and were refreshed , to the praise and glory of our god for ever . we did eat but little in two months ; and they did bring us what ever we did speak for , for . or . dayes ; and afterward we were so straitned for want of food , it did us more hurt than our fast. yet the lord did work as great a miracle by our preservation , as he did by raising lazarus out of the grave . the fryars did say , the lord did keep us alive by his mighty power , because we should be catholicks . we said , the lord would make it manifest to us then ; they should know the lord had another end in it one day . but still they said , there was no redemption for us . we said , with the lord there was mercy and plenteous redemption . vve bid them , take heed ye be not found fighters against god. they said , we were foolish women . we said we were the lord's fools , and the lord's fools were right dear , and precious in his sight , and wo to them that do offend them . he said , they were the lord's fools , and shewed us their deceitful gowns , and their shaven crowns , and said they did wear it for god's sake , to be laught at of the world ▪ we said , they did not wear it for god's sake , unless they were moved of the holy spirit of god to wear it . he said , it was no matter , they did wear it because of their superiors . [ mark , and before it was for god's sake , as he said ] he thought to bring us under him for our food , and did make us suffer a while , though the inquisitor and the magistrates had taken a course we should want for nothing . but the lord did torment him and all the rest , till they did bring us such things as were fitting . then he did work all that he could to send me to rome , and was coming two or three times ( for what i know ) to fetch me forth , but the lord vvould not suffer them ; and vvhen they savv they could not prevaile that vvay , they said vve should go both ; but the fryar should go first , because he vvas not vvell ; he got leave to go , he vvas so vveary of coming to us , that he did beseech the lord inquisitor he might come no more to us . he told sarah , i was a witch , and that i knew what was done at london , and he vvould come to me no more , he said , because vvhen he did tell me a company of lyes , i said , i had a witness for god in me , which was faithful and true , and i did believe god●s witness . the diviners did vvax mad , and did run as at their vvits end , from mountain to hill , and from hill to mountain , to cover them : they ran to the inquisitor , and vvrit to the pope , and vvent to him ; their king did not hide them at all ; some of them did gnash vvith their teeth , and even gnavv their tongues for pain : yet the rest vvould not repent of their blasphemy , sorcery , nor inchantments , but do post on to fill up their measures ; oh! the lord revvard them according to their vvorks . a little before the fryar vvent to rome , he came to the inquisition chamber vvith a scribe , to vvrite concerning us , to carry it vvith him ; i savv him , as god vvould have it ; the lord said , there is thy deadly foe . they vvere vvriting part of three dayes ; and vvhen they had ended it , the lord would not let me eat till the scribe did come where i was , that i might pronounce vvo against it , and defie it , which i did do in the name of the lord , and it did wither vvith all the rest : after it vvas gone , the english consul came to us with a scribe , and he brought us a doller from a master of a ship that came from plymouth ; i told him , i did receive my countrey man's love , but could not receive his money . he askt me , what i wou●d do if i would take no money ? i said , the lord was my portion , and i could not lack any good thing . i said to him , we were in thy house near . weeks , didst thou see any cause of death or bonds in us ? he said , no. i askt him , how he would dispence with his conscience for telling us , he would have us before the inquisitor , and thou didst know that room vvas provided for us ; and had not we been kept alive by the mighty power of god , we might have been dead long since . he said , how could i help it ! i said ▪ we are the servants of the living god , and were brought here by permission , and in the spirit of meekness gave in our testimony for the lord in faithfulness , and told you the truth as it is in jesus , and called you all to repentance , and fore-warned you in love to your souls , of the evil the lord is bringing upon you , if you do not repent . he said , however it be , it will go well with you . [ mark that . ] i told him , he required a sign of me when vve vvere at his house , if we were the servants of the lord god ; i gave him a sign from the living god , and my friend gave him another from the lord , to his shame and destruction for ever . i askt him , whether it were not true we spake to him , he said it was , but how should he help it ? i said , thou art a condemned person , and stands guilty before god ; yet nevertheless repent , if thou canst find a place . he smil'd upon the scribe in deceit , but his lips did quiver , and his belly trembled , and he could scarce stand upon his legs . he was as proper a man as most was in the city , and full , and in his prime age . o! he was consumed as a snail in a shell , which was a sufficient sign for the whole city , if their hearts were not harder than adamants ▪ he said , how should he help it ? he might have helpt it , but he was as willing to prove us , as any of them all . he was sworn upon his oath to protect the english ; and their ruler bid him let us go about our business , and said , he were honest women ; and then he might have let us go before we were under the black rod. then he went to sarah with the doller ; she told him she could not take the money ; but if he had a letter for us , she should be free to receive that . he said , he had not any . he askt her what she did want ? she said , the lord was her shepherd , she could not want any good thing ; but she did long for her freedom . he said , that you may have in time . he told us , we should have ink and paper to write : but when he was gone , they vvould not let us . the next time we heard of him , he was dead ▪ we could have rejoiced if he had dyed for righteousness sake ; for the lord delighteth not in the death of a sinner . the fryar was gone to rome , and they said , he must stay there till we came . there was great working to send us there , but the lord did prevent them , that they could not send us there . then the lord did work to bring us together again after so long time we had been parted . there vvere five doors between us with locks and bolts , but the keeper had not power to make them fast , but as sarah could undo them to come where i could see her , but could not speak to her ; for there were them that did watch us night and day ; yet she being moved of the lord , did come to my door by night ; she must come by the fryars door , he and the doctor of law were together , and they did set a trap to take her in , and many did watch about the prison , and would complain . then she was lockt up again ; but they had no peace in that , till the doors were open again ; then we did sit in the sight of each other , to wait upon the lord , so that our voices were heard far ; the magistrates vvould hear and bow to it sometime ; then the complainers were weary , and did work to have us brought together ; and we did wait and pray , and the magistrates would come in and look upon us many times , but would say nothing to us : there were of divers nations brought into the inquisition prisoners , and the fryars , and the rest that were great , would go in their way to make christians of them ; and we were made to stand up against them and their vvays , and deny them in the name of the lord , and declare the truth to the simple-hearted continually , if vve did suffer death for it ; we could not endure to hear the name of the lord blasphemed , nor his pure way of truth perverted , nor the ignorant deceived . they did vvrite all they understood of vvhat vve spake , and sent it to the court-chamber before the inquisitor and magistrates , but the lord did blast it vvith the mildevvs of his vvrathful indignation , and burnt it up vvith the brightness of his son , and vve rejoiced in our god ; but still our burdens continued very heavy , and our righteous souls vvere vexed vvith the filthy conversation of the wicked , and the pure seed of god vvas prest from day to day , that our spirits did mourn , and our hearts vvere grieved because of the hardness of their hearts , and their rebellion against their maker , vvho vvas so gracious to them , to suffer them so long in all their abominations , and vvaited to be gracious to them , and knock at the door of their hearts , calling for justice , mercy and humility ; but behold oppression , cruelty , and self-exaltation , notvvithstanding the lord did strive so much vvith them , and sent so many undeniable truths , and in●allible testimonies of the coming of his son to judgement , and so clear a manifestation of the vvay to eternal salvation , given forth of his ovvn mouth , by his eternal spirit , and having us for an example vvho vvere kept by his povver and holiness ; they had not a jot nor tittle against us , but for righteousness sake , though they had vvinnovved and fanned us so long : glory , honor and praises be given to our god for ever . o they would not let us know of any english ship that came into the harbour , as near as they could , but the lord would make it manifest to us ; we had a great working and striving in our bodies , but we knew not what it meant ; the arrows of the wicked did flye , so that my soul was plunged and overwhelmed from head to feet , and the terrors of the unrighteous had taken hold of us , and the flames of hell compassed us about ; then the lord appeared unto me in a dream , and said , there were two english friends in the city which did plead for our liberty in our behalf , and he had taken all fear away from them , and made them bold . and in a little while after the magistrates sent for us forth , and askt us , whether we were sick , or whether we did want any thing ; and were very tender to us , and said ▪ we should write to england , and bid the scribe give us ink and paper ; he said he would ; but he was so wicked he did not . they did not tell us of any english that were there ; but there was one francis steward of london , a captain of a ship , and a fryar of ireland , which came to the city together ( for what we know ) and they did take great pains for us , and went to their ruler , and the inquisitor , and to several magistrates and fryars , and the new english consul with them , and wrought much amongst them ▪ that all were willing to let us go , save the inquisitor ; they said ; and he said , he could not free us without an order from the pope . but we had many heavy enemies besides , which vvould not be seen ; but they obtained the favour to come and speak with us , which was a great thing in such a place . they sent for us to the court-chamber , and the english consul askt us , if we were willing to go back to england ? we said , if it were the will of god we might . the captain spake to us with tears in his eyes , and told us what they had done for us , but could not prevail ; it is this inquisitor ( said he ) the rest were made free ; you have preached among these people he said . we told him we were called upon the testimony of our conscience and the truth that we have witn●ssed forth among them , we should stand to maintain with our blood . he said , if they could get us off , he would freely give us our passage , and provide for us , and he vessel was his own . we cold him , his love was as well accepted of the lord , as if he did carry us . he offered us money , he savv the lord vvould● not suffer us to take any . he took our names . we told them they took us out of our way , and put us into the inquisition , and bid us chang● our minds ; and we could not , the lord had changed us into that which changed not , if they would burn us to ashes , or chop us as herbs to the pot. the fryar said , we did not work ; which was false ; we had work of our own , and did work as we were able . we told him , our work and maintenance was in england . and they said , it was true . he said , we would not accept of the inquisitors dyet . we did not know who did prepare for us ; we did receive our meat as we had freedom in the lord. then he said , we had suffered long enough , and too long , but we should have our freedom in 〈◊〉 days , and that they would send to the pope for an order . and there were many english ships that way ; but the captain saw it was a very hard thing ; so that it grieved him to the heart : he prayed god to comfort us , and he went away ; and we do beseech god to bless and preserve him unto everlasting life , and never to let him nor his go without a blessing from him , for his love : he did venture himself exceedingly in that place . but after he was gone , they arose up against us with one accord ; the inquisitor came up into a tower , and lookt down upon us as if he would have eaten us , and they did try us for our lives again , and did shut up our doors many weeks ; we could not tell for what ; at length the inquisitor came into the tower again , and sarah was moved to call to him , to have the door opened for us to go down into the court to wash our clothes . then he gave command for the door to be opened once a week ; and in a little while 't was open every day . but great was our affliction indeed ; and she told him , if we were the popes prisoners , we would appeal to the pope , and he should send us to him . but them in the prison with us , especially the fryar , were mortal enemies to us , but yet they would have fed us with the choicest of their meat , and would gladly give us whole bottles of wine , if we would receive it , and were greatly troubled because we did refuse to eat and drink with them , and did persecute us exceedingly ; but the lord did visit them with his dreadful judgements , the fryar was tormented night and day , his body did perish , the doctors and chyrurgions did follow him a long time . and there were two or three english ships there , came into harbour , and sarah saw the coming of them in a vision of the night , and there was great pleading for us , that we saw ; but she heard a voice , saying , we could not go now . so we were made willing to wait the lords time . then they sent for us forth when the ships were gone , and askt us if we would be catholicks : and we said , we were true christians , and had received the spirit of christ , and he that had not the spirit of christ , was none of his . the english consul told us of the ships , and said , they would not let us go unless we would be catholicks ; and that we must suffer more imprisonment yet ; and said , he did what he could for us . one of the magistrates shewed us the cross ; we told them , and said , we did take up the cross of christ daily , which is the great power of god to crucifie sin and iniquity . so we told them that one of their fathers did promise us our liberty . we did think that fryar was too tender-hearted to stay among them ; he did take a great deal of pains for us ( the captain said ) we told him , he would never have cause to repent it ; the blessing of god would be upon him for any thing he should do for us ; for we were the servants of the living god , and he promised us our freedoms in a little time . this following i received from them in other papers to friends . d. b. o dearly beloved friends , fathers and elders , and pillars of gods spiritual house , and brethren and sisters in the lord jesus christ , in the measure of love and life of our god do we sal●te you all , and do embrace you in that which is eternal , and we do greatly rejoice and glorifie the name of our heavenly father , that he hath counted us worthy to be partakers of the death and sufferings of his blessed son , with you ; though we be the least of gods flock , yet we are of the true fold , whereof christ jesus is shepherd ; and he hath had as tender a care over us , as he hath had of any of his lambs which he hath called forth in this the day of his power , and hath carryed us through , and ever as great afflictions as most of our brethren and sufferers for his name , both in mockings , scoffings , scornings , reproaches , stripes , contradictions , perils at land , and perils at sea , fiery tryals , cruel threatnings , grief of heart , sorrow of soul , heats and colds , fastings and watchings , fears within , and frightings without , terrible temptations and persecutions , and dreadful imprisonments and buffetings of satan ; yet in all these our tryals the lord was very gracious unto us , and not absent himself from us , neither suffered his faithfulness to fail us , but did bear us up , and keep us from fainting in the midst of our extremity ; we had not another to make our moan to , but the lord alone , neither could we expect a drop of mercy , favour or refreshment , but what he did distil from his living presence , and work by his own strength ; for we sa●e one in one room , and the other in another , near a year , as owls in deserts , and as people forsaken in solitary places ; then did we enjoy the presence of the lord , and did behold the brightness of his glory , and we did see you our dear friends , in the light of jesus , and did behold your order , and stedfastness of your faith and love to all saints , and were refreshed in all the faithful hearted , and felt the issues of love and life which did stream from the hearts of those that were wholly joined to the fountain , and were made sensible of the benefit of your pra●ers . o the sorrows , the mournings , the tears ! but those that sow in tears , shall reap in joy . a true sorrow ●egets a true ioy ; and a true crosse , a true crown : for when our sorrows did abound , the love of god did abound much more ; the deeper the sorrows , the greater the joys ; the greater the cross , the weightier the crown . dear friends and brethren , marvel not that israel is not gathered , our judgement remains with the lord , and so do our labours ; for it was not for want of travel , nor pain , nor love to their souls ; for we could have been contented to have fed upon the grass on the ground , so we might have had ou● freedom amongst them : for had it not been for the great opposition , they would have followed after us as chickens after a hen , both great and small : but oh the swelling seas , the raging and foaming waves , stormy winds and floods , and deep waters , and high mountains and hills , hard rocks , rough wayes , and crooked● paths , tall cedars , strong oaks , fruitless trees , and corrupted ones , that cumber the ground , and hinder the righteous seed to be sown , and the noble plants from being planted : oh! they shut up the kingdom against the simple-hearted , and hide the key of knowledge from the innocent ones , and will not enter into the kingdom themselves , nor suffer them that would enter , but stir up the magistrates to form carnal weapons , thinking to prevent the lord of taking to him his inheritance , and to dispossess his son who is heir of all , that he might not have a dwelling-place amongst them , nor a habitation nigh them ; because that his light will discover their darkness , and his brightness will burn up all their abominations , and marr their beauty , and stain their glory , their pomp and their pride , that it may perish as the untimely figs , and fall as the flower of the field , and wither as the grasse upon the house-top . oh the belly of hell , the jaws of satan , the whole mysterie of iniquity is at the height , and all manner of abominations that make desolate , stands where it ought not , and is upholden by a law , that upon pain of death none must speak against it , nor walk contrary to it . but praises to our god , he carryed us forth to declare against it daily . oh the blind c●ides , the seducing spirits that do cause the people to err , and compel them to worship the beast and his image , and to have his mark in their fore-heads , and in their hands , and to bow to pictures and painted walls , and to worship the things of their own hands , and to fall down to that which their own fingers have fashioned , and will not suffer them to look towards sion upon pain of death , nor to walk towards jerusalem upon pain of faggot and fire , but must abide in babel , and believe whatsoever they speak or do , to be truth . but oh the wayes , the worships , the ●ashions , forms , customs , traditions observations and imaginations which they have drawn in by their dark divinations , to keep the poor people in blindness and ignorance , so that they perish for want of knowledge , and are corrupted , because the way of truth is not made known among them ; they are all in the many wayes , out of the one true and living way , and their ways be so many and so monstrous , that they are unrehearsible ; but the lord our god hath kindled a fire in the midst of them , that will consume all forms , fashions , customs and traditions of men , and will burn up the bryars , thorns and tares , stubble and fruitless trees , and corrupted ones , and will blast all the fruits , works and labours of wicked and ungodly men ▪ with the mill dews of his wrathful indignation , and will scatter all his enemies with the whirl-winds of his displeasure . they do not know the scriptures . their bibles would grieve any honest heart to behold them , because of the corruption : they said , our bibles were false : i asked wherein ? the fryar said , maccabees was not in them . i said , if any were taken from them , yet the rest might be pure ; but if any were added to them , then they were corrupted . he askt me , whether i did not think it meet for every one to bow at the name of jesus . i said , yea. he said , jesus , and bid me fall down , or bow my body . i told him , my heart and whole body was bowed under the name of jesus ; but ● should not stoop to his will , nor any man 's else : he that departeth from iniquity , boweth to the name of jesus ; but those that live in sin and wickedness do not stoop to the son of god. and he told me , they stood in the same power the apostles did , and were guided by the same spirit as they were . i asked why they did abuse their power then , and make use of carnal weapons . he said they did not , they were all spiritual , their inquisition , & their chains and irons , and all is spiritual * . and he asked , whether we judged them all damn'd that were not of our judgement . i said , nay , we had otherwise learned christ ; those that were in a reprobate condition to day , the lord may call them out of it to morrow , for what i know . he said , they did judge us damn'd , and all that were not of their faith. i told him , man's judgement we did not matter . a vision . in a vision of the night i saw in the firmament six suns , one at a distance from the rest , that did appear to be but half an hour high ; the other five stood four-square , one in the middle ; and they did cross over each other ; the highest did not seem to be above an hour high . and when i did awake , i was troubled in my spirit to know the vision ; and i waited upon the lord , and he signified to me in the light , the six suns were six nations , whose lights were near out ; and the five which crossed each other , signified to me some rising amongst them . and the fryar came to me , and said , it was god's will we should be kep● there , or else they could not keep us . i told him the lord did suffer wicked men to do wickedly , but did not will them to do it . he did suffer herod to take off john baptist's head , but he did not will him to do it ; and did suffer stephen to be stoned , and judas to betray christ , but he did not will them to do it ; for if he had ▪ he would not have condemned them for it . he said , then we are wicked men : i said , they are wicked men that work wickedness . the fryar would say still , we had not the true faith. we said , by faith we stand , and by the power of god we are upholden ; dost thou think it is by our own power and holiness we are kept from a vain conversation , from sin and wickedness ? he said , that was our pride . we said ▪ no , we could glory in the lord , we were children of wrath once as well as others ; but the lord hath quickned us that were dead , by the living word of his grace , and hath washed ▪ cleansed and sanctified us through soul and spirit , in part , according to our measures , and we do press forward towards that which is perfect . he then did say , we were good women , but yet there was no redemption for us except we would be catholicks . now the lord said , fear not daughters of sion , i will carry you forth as gold tryed out of the fire . and many precious promises did the lord refresh us with , in our greatest extremity , and would appear in his glory , that our souls would be ravished in his presence ; i had the spirit of prayer upon me , and i was afraid to speak to the lord , for fear i should speak one word that would not please him . and the lord said ▪ fear not daughter of sion , ask what thou wilt , and i will grant it thee , whatsoever thy heart can wish . i desired nothing of the lord but what would make for his glory , whether it were my liberty or bondage , life or death , wherein i was highly accepted of the lord. the room wherein i was separated , was near the chancery , where all the bishops courtiers did resort , and would come into the inquisition courts , and i had work amongst them daily ; they would come on purpose to their condemnation ; some would be smitten , and run as if they hunted ; and some would be set on fire , and cry , caldere , caldere , and fuoco , fuoco , and many would pitty us because we were not catholicks ; the fryars would say , we might be catholicks , and keep our own religion too ▪ and we should not be known we were catholicks , except we were brought before a justice of peace . we askt if we should profess a christ we should be asham'd of ? but as for the poor workmen , they were willing to do any thing for us , and were diligent to hear us , the witness of god in them did answer to the truth ; there were many eyes over them ; had it not been for the great opposition , there were hundreds would have flown to the truth . and because i said i did talk with g. f. he ( the fryar ) asked , whether g. f. did bring me money to maintain me in prison . i said , no , but though i was absent in body , yet i was present in spirit , and was refreshed in him , and in hundreds more besides . they said , i had seen revelations , and had talkt with g. f. and he was god's revelation . sarah said , christ was god's revelation ; he said , she came under the halter for saying christ was god's revelation . she answered , st. paul said , as soon as it pleased god to reveal his son in me , i did not consult with flesh and blood , but immediately i went and preacht him ; and is not christ god's revelation then ? he said , who denied that ? what they would have done to sarah if they had taken her forth , we know not ; but the lord did work so wonderfully that night for the preservation of her poor soul out of their net , that he is worthy to be glorified for ever . the next time he came to me , he came in sheeps clothing , but he had a woolf under his gown ; he gave me words as soft as butter , and as smooth as oyl , when he had a sword in his heart , and a spear in his hand , when they speak most fairest , then beware of them . he desired us we would not think so hardly of him , as if he were the author of all our wrongs and troubles ; he was not ( he said ) but would do any good he could for us , were it with his blood . but we thought he had been the chiefest that cast the poor man in prison , but he was the man that hope him out without any punishment at all , though the inquisitor did say he should be severely punished . i told him he did well , he would have peace in it , and would never have cause to repent it . he did entreat us , he might not bear all the burthen . we told him of many wicked things he did act against us , and of his lying and cruel words . he bid us , take no notice what he did speak . but we did feel his spirit , that what he spake , he would do , if he had not been chained . i did use to tell him , my conscience was not feared with a hot iron . j was not past feeling . at last he was so weary of coming to us , he did entreat the jnquisitor he might not come to us any more ; the judgements of the lord did follow him so , it was like to kill him . when we were parted , the lord did vvork mightily for us , and we vvere kept by the power of the lord over our enemies , and vvere bold for god's truth , and did make war vvith them in righteousness , so that they could not gain-say us in the truth : so that scripture was fulfilled , the wicked mouths must be stopped ; and they vvere put to silence , praises be to our god , and were made to confess or say , of a truth god was in us ; our god was a consuming fire to them , they were not able to stand in his presence , but they vvould howl and make a noise like dogs , and cry , jesu , maria , and flye as people driven by a mighty rushing wind ; the power of the lord did pursue after them like a sword ; that scripture was fulfilled , which saith , christ came not to send peace on earth , but a sword , to cut down his enemies ; the lord was on our side , and did take our part , and did fight for us , and did tread down our enemies under our feet , that they could not hurt us . mighty vvas the work of god daily , our tongues cannot express it ; they did vvork day and night vvith their inc●antments and divinations , sorceries , unclean , spirits crying and foaming ; insomuch we could take little rest day or night sometimes ; but the lord vvas vvith us , and did work mightily by his power , and kept us over them in the life of the son of god. my prison was nigh to the pallace , and to their worship , that i could be heard of both ; and it was laid upon me of the lord to call them to repentance , and to turn to the light vvherevvith they vvere enlightned , vvhich would lead them out of all their wicked ways , works and worships ▪ to serve the true and living god in spirit and in truth ; the power did raise the witness in many , and troubled them ; they did sigh and groan ; and some did stay to hear me , ●o long as they durst ; for there were many did watch ; and it was upon pain of death , or at least to be imprisoned : as was the poor english man that did come and speak to me , whom they hall●d down violently , and put him in prison ; but the lord delivered him for his love . and we were parted near a year , but great was the work of the lord , and great was the power to carry it on . he was not wanting to us , glory be to his name ; but did give us words and wisdom according to our work : so that scripture was fulfilled which saith on this wise , ye need not premeditate afore-hand what to speak , or what to say ; for it shall be given you of my heavenly father what ye ought to speak , that the enemies shall not gain-say ; they were so tormented , that they did run to the hills and to the mountains to cover them from the presence of the lord , and from the wrath of the lamb which sits upon the throne to judg them righteously , and to condemn them for all their wicked deeds which they so ungodlily had committed against him . oh ▪ the goodness of the lord , and his long-suffering and forbearance which vvould lead them to repentance , but they would not hearken to his counsel , but turned his laws behind their backs , and hated to be instructed by them ; therefore the lord did laugh at their destruction , and did mock when their fear came : their wickedness was so great , and my burthens so heavy to bear it that i cryed to the lord , and said , it is better for me to dye , than to live ; and would gladly have given up my life in testimony against them all ; i vvas ( as ' t vvere ) compell'd to declare against all their vvays , vvorks and vvorships , insomuch that they ran to the inquisitor to have me chained , or punished some other vvay ; but the povver of the lord chained them , that they could not diminish a hair of my head ; the lord vvas my safety , praises be to his name for ever . novv some as they passed to their worship houses , vvould sigh ; and some pray , and some did throvv stones at my windovv ; they did vvork night and day about the prison , as though they vvould have broke through to slay me ; but the lord vvas vvith me , and did fight for me ▪ and did scatter his enemies as the dust before the wind : glory be to his name for evermore . i cannot expresse the large love of our god , hovv he did preserve us from so many deaths and threatnings , as they did come to me vvith falling dovvn upon their knees , saying mass , and vvould have me to say after them ; but in the name o● the lord i denied them . they vvould hovv●e like dogs , beause they could not beguile the innocent , and slay my righteous life ; but praises be to the lord our god , who did preserve me from the vvoolf and the devourers , denying them and their sacrifices . and vvhen they savv they could not prevail to betray us from the truth , e●en they said , they would give us to the devil to be tormented , and deliver us over to their bad catholicks , to do by us as they pleased ; for they would use us badly , and so they did seek to do : oh the cursed noises and cryes the sodomites did make , crying , quake , quake ; running about the prison raging , and some singing and crouding round the prison night and day , as if they would have broke through to slay me ; and the sons of bel●al did run to bear false witness , so that i looked every hour when they would fetch me out , and slay me . the enemy did so work to perswade , that they had prest my dear yoke-fellow with stones , vvhich vvas a great trouble to me , because i could not suffer death with her ; i did yeild she had been slain : and afterwards this great tribulation being ended , then they said my ( dear and faithful ) yoke-fellow should be sent to rome , and i should tarry at malta , which did so encrease my sorrow , and wrought upon my spirit to try and examine wherefore the lord should deal so hardly with me , as to leave me behind ; or whether he did not count me worthy to go and give in my testimony vvith her to rome , and offer up my life for the testimony of jesus , than to have my liberty to return to england vvith her , and i cryed day and night to the lord , and vvould not give my soul rest , nor my eyes sleep , till the lord did ansvver me ; glory and praises be to his name for ever . but vve savv jacob must part vvith all , ben●amin must go too . so vve vvere vvilling to give up in obedience to the lord ; our trials were unspeakable . oh the unclean spirits ! they vvould speak to us at noon-day ; but the lord did give us power over them , that we did not fear the wild bores out of the wood , nor the vvild beasts out of the field . then there vvas one came and said , that catherine and i must be sent both to rome ; which did rejoice my soul , and renevved my strength , because the lord did count me worthy to go and give in my testimony for his truth , the word of his prophesie , before the great and mighty ones of the earth . the lord said , i should not be afraid ; and he shevved me in the light how he had bowed them down before us , and saw them in the light of christ , how the pope , the fryars and sorcerers stood in ranks , bowing down before us . so we saw our dominion in spirit : they did work to send us to rome , but the lord did blast it , and fought against them , that they could not send us . now our testimony was as largely given in at rome , as at malta : the fryars came to me , and shewed me mary and her babe pictured against the wall , and would have me look upon it . i stampt with my foot and said , cursed be all images and image-makers , and all that fall down to worship them , christ jesus is the express image of his fathers brightness , which is light and life , who doth reveal the mysterie of iniquity , the cunning working of satan , to draw out the mind to follow him , from the pure life , and to veil over the just one from beholding the presence of the lord. but glory be to the lord , who hath made him manifest in thousands of his , in this day of his power , when we were separated , we spake one and the same thing , being guided by one spirit . they would go from me to catharine , they would bid her speak as sarah did ; and so she did to their condemnation : praises to the lord , amen , a paper sent from them to the pope's lord inquisitor in malta , for the lord inquisitor and his council , &c. mens persons i cannot admire ; they that do admire and respect any man's person , do it because of advantage ; and such are transgressors , the apostles ( st. james and jude ) say . in obedience to the lord , in love to your souls , from the fountain of love , and springs of life that stream forth to the refreshment of the whole city of god , am i constrained to visit you with these few lines ; and i beseech you to read it with the spirit of moderation and meekness , and see that nothing in you arise up against it , for it is god's truth . christ jesus who is the light of the world , which hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world , saith , this is life eternal , to know thee the onely true god , and jesus christ whom thou hast sent . new the knowledge of god is life eternal ; and there is no other way to come to this knowledge , but to have the mind turned from darkness to the light , out of the visible , to that which is invisible , viz. the light in the conscience , which convi●ceth of sin and iniquity , when no mortal eye can see you ; and as you come to love it , and to have your minds staid upon it , you will feel the incomes of god's power to administer condemnation upon the transgressor , that keeps the pure seed ●n bondage in you ; for sion is redeemed through judgement , and her converts with righteousness . saint paul saith , if thou believest in thy heart the lord jesus , and confessest with thy mouth that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved ; for with the heart man believeth unto salvation ; and we do believe , and see , and t●ste , and handle of the good word of life , and have received the spirit of truth , to lead us into all truth , and doth bring all things to our remembrance , without any visible thing . and saint paul wrote to the galatians , saying , my little children , of whom i travel in birth till christ be formed in you . where christ is formed within , there needs no form without ; the outward form is called an earthen vessel , or an earthen tabernacle , or an earthen house ; but christ jesus is the express image of his father's glory ( or substance ) which is light and life . now the image of christ is a pure and a holy image , a meek and a dove like image , an innocent and a lamb-like image , a righteous and a glorious image , christ in you the hope of glory , saith the apostle to the saints . the lord our god hath given to every man a measure of the manifestation of his own spirit to profit withall , which is the light in the conscience , the true teacher of his people ; it is the grace of god that bringeth salvation , that appeareth to all men , and it teacheth all that come , to believe in it , and to love , and to be guided by it , to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to walk soberly , righteously , holy and godly in this p●esent world ; and it will deal plainly with every one ; none need to fear being deceived by that in them which doth condemn them for sin and evil : but they that live in pride , are deceived already ; they that live in covetousness , are deceived already ; and they that live in lusts or drunkenness , are deceived already ; or in lying , swearing , adultery or idolatry , are deceived ; or in hypocrisie and deceit , hard heartedness or cruelty , they are deceived already ; for those you know , are fruits which do proceed from a deceived heart , being corrupted for want of knowledge : my people perish for want of knowledge ( saith god ) he that hath not the spirit of christ , is none of his , and he that hath the spirit of christ , ought himself to walk as christ walked : now christ was no persecutor , he never imprisoned any , nor ever put any to suffer , but he and the holy prophets and apostles were made to suffer as evil-do●rs , this we know . the day of the lord is hot and terrible against all sin and iniquity , and that nature from whence it doth proceed ; and we are a wo for all them that are laying up of a fuel for it : this is god's truth , whether you can receive it , yea or nay , i am ready to seal it with my blood , if the lord shall call me to it . whosoever shall interpret this paper before the lord inquisitor , ( so called ) i charge thee in the name of the living god , as thou wilt answer before his dreadful presence , to interpret it word by word , as it is written , without adding or diminishing . katharine evans . the fryar then came to me , and askt me , why i did not work ? i said unto him , what work dost thou do ? he said he did write . i told him i would write too , if he would bring me a pen , ink and paper ; and i would write truth . he said , he would not that we should write ; for st. paul did work at rome , and we might get nine or ten grains a day , if we would knit , that is three half pence . i told him , if we could have that priviledge amongst them , that st. paul had at rome under caesar , which was a heathenish king , we would have wrought , and not have been chargeable to any . st. paul lived in his own hired house two years , with a souldier to look to him and had friends of the same occupation to work with him , and could send where he would , and whosoever would come to him , might , and he taught them in the name of the lord jesus , and no man for bad him . so i askt him , whether he knew the holy war of god , yea or nay ? if he did , i told him he then did know we could not be without exercise day nor night . then his mouth was stopped , and he spake no more to me of work : but though our affliction of body was very great , and our travel of soul was greater , yet we did knit stockins , and give to them that were made serviceable to u● , and did make garments for the poor prisoners , and mended their clothes which had need , and were made helpful to them all , to their condemnation , that did persecute us . but we could not vvork at the fryar's will , nor any man 's else , but as we had freedom in the lord. as i vvas vveak in my bed , the fryar came to me , and said , we did deny the scriptures : i told him , they did deny them , we did own them , and hold them forth , thou dost know it : he was in a rage because i said , they denyed the scriptures , bid me eat my words again , and threatned death upon me . i said , christ jesus was the light of the world ; and had lighted every one that cometh into the world , which light is our salvation that do receive it , and the same light is the world's condemnation that do not believe in it . then he said , he would lay me in chains , where i should neither see sun nor moon . they say , the father hath almost killed you , said he , but i will kill you quite , before i have done . he had a book in his hand , and he did study in it ; i told him he did comprehend the words in his carnal mind ; and he vvas vvrath , and said he would give me to the devils to be tormented . i said , i deny the devil and all his works and workers . some would come unto the prison upon their saints days , and ask us what day it was ? we did answer , we did not know , neither did we observe dayes nor times , months nor years . then answer would be made , it was st. joseph ' s day , or some other saint ; and st : joseph should punish us that night , because we did not observe his day . we answered , we did know the saints to be at peace with us , and we did not fear them . we further said , st. paul did call it beggarly elements and rudiments of the world , to observe days , times , months and years ; and their mouths vvould be stopt for a time . then came the fryar another time , and told me , it was seventeen dayes to their christmas ; and said , the virgin mary conceived with child that day , being the same day he spake to me on ; as if she did go with child but seventeen dayes . and he said , the next day was lady ann's day , the virgin mary ' s mother , a saint . then as i was crying to the lord in prayer because of o●r long-suffering , & our strong travel & labour & no fruit ( as did appear ) the lord said unto me , be not grieved , though israel be not gathered ; the seed of malta shall be as the stars of the skie for multitude : that which ye have sown , shall not dye , but live : glory be to the name of the lord for ever a copy of a writing from their hands , sent in pursuit after the fryar . malachy ; thou saidst thou wouldst try whether we had the true spirit yea or nay , and thou hast tryed day and night , but thou never triedst the right way ; the seed of god is not tryed with deceit , lying , hypocrisie , nor cruelty : but if thou hadst turned in with thy mind to the light of god in thy conscience , thou wouldst soon have known us ; or had the love of christ been shed abroad in thy heart , thou might'st have comprehended us ; or hadst thou found the ballance of the sanctuary of the true tabernacle , which god hath pitched , and not man , thou mightst have weighed us ; or hadst thou laid judgement to the line , and righteousness to the plummet , thou might'st have fathomed us ; or could'st thou have opened the book of life , thou might'st have read us ; or hadst thou went into the house of israel , thou might's have had fellowship with us , &c. contrary to our wills were we cast in amongst you , and have given our testimony for the lord , and called you all to repentance , and have forewarned you of the evil the lord is bringing upon you ; but you have slighted the day of your visitation , aud have done despite to the spirit of grace , and have cast many hard speeches and false aspersions upon the truth , and the messengers thereof , and the lord will visit for these things ; and you have blinded your eyes that you will not see , and stopped your ears that you might not hear , and hardened your hearts that you might not understand ; least you should see with your eyes , and hear with your ears , and understand with your hearts , and turn to the lord , and be converted , and he should heal you . oh that you had known in this your day , what had belonged to your peace ; but now it is hid from your eyes . the desire of our souls is , that every one may repent that can find a place ; and whatever you have done to us , we desire it may not be laid to your charge ; for we count our selves happy that we were found worthy to suffer for the name of the lord. written in the inquisition-prison in the isle of malta . katharine evans . sarah chevers . behold victorions hymns , songs , praises , all in verse , the same sprung from the seed of life , its perfect righteousness . oh lord my life is given up , thy truth for to declare ; lord keep me in thy arms , and guide me in thy fear . thy bow is bent , thy sword is drawn thy enemies to deface , thy fire 's kindl'd 'gainst all those that truth wil not embrace . thine arrows sharp and keen , upon their heads shall fall , thy double-edged sword also , to cut them down withall . so plague the heathen , & correct name the people in thy wrath , that they may fear & dread thy and come to know thy truth . throughout the world so wide , thy truth thou dost declare , thy saving health for to enjoy , by thy light doth appear . thou dost send forth thy messengers . glad tydings to proclaim , to call the hungry forth to feed on thy lamb being slain . feasts of fat things thou dost prepare the hungry for to feed , and cloath the nak'd with garments fair . that want and stand in need . heaven's glory is appearing , its brightness shineth forth , over all nations it is clearing , the lords eternal truth . every one that 's in darkness , and under its shadow lye , may come forth into the brightness . out of obscurity . oh lord teach me thy wayes , that i may walk therein , and lead me in thy path of life , and cleanse me from all sin . how gracious is our god , and kind to israel , with us he doth make his abode . his presence doth us fill . so that we are not desolate , nor yet distrest with woes , because the lord doth take our part . and doth confound our foes ▪ every one that is opprest and cast in danger deep , if that in god they put their trust , he will them safely keep , right dear and precious to the lord are all his little ones , that suffer for his holy name , he will avenge their wrongs , and in his wrath he will destroy his enemies so stout , and suddenly will make a way , and lead his servants out . and he himself will them restore to joy and comfort both , and will preserve them evermore , because they do him love . but as for men of corrupt minds whose wayes defiled are , the lord will visit with all kinds of judgments , and not spare . he will pursue them with his sword , and cut them to the ground , that do reject his holy word , his plagues shall them confound . because that they do not obey his mercies and his grace , which he so free to them doth give if they would them embrace . but as their fathers did , so they requite the lord with wrong , and persecute thy messengers , and make them suffer long because that they the truth declare as scripture telleth plain , that christ himself , the lord 's own heir , is come , and he will reign both lord , and prince , and king also , throughout the world that 's wide , and antichrist will overthrow , and babel in her pride : it 's not their golden candlesticks , nor lamps that be so many , that can shine through the clouds so thick , to give a light to any . to lead to a true resting-place , where they may still behold the beauty of god's glorious face , more bright than fined gold. thou seest oh lord , what man hath done for to exalt himself against the lord thy blessed son , who is our saving health . they have changed his glorious form and image that 's so bright , and fashion'd it like sinful man , corrupted in thy sight , arise oh lord , arise in haste , and punish for these things , these men that have sought thy disgrace , that they might reign as kings over thine own inheritance , contrary to thy will. to keep them still in ignorance , without knowledge or skill . but now the god of power is come , to raise up sion bright , and to build up jerusalem in all the heathens sight . the gates of hell shall not prevail , though they be wide & strong , against the gathering in of all that to the lord belong . all glory , honor , laud and praise be to the lord of might , who hath made known in these our dayes , his way , his truth , his light. concerning the cross of christ , which is not a visible sign , or a piece of wood , but the invisible and immortal power of the lord god , and his wisdom unto salvation , to and in all them that believe , is the same christ , the power of god , and the wisdom of god : but the same crosse is to the outward jew , ( or christian , a stumbling-block , and to the wise greek ( that 's exalted and puft up in the knowledge above , and over the meek life ) foolishness , as saith the scripture , cor. . , . christ's cross i do embrace , which gives me an entrance into grace ; sin and death it doth deface , and makes me run a glorious race . a crown of life and grace i do obtain , and sin and death is daily slain ; and christ himself alone to reign through the cross i do obtain . the cross of christ is more to me than all the treasures i can see : it brings me to my resting-place for to behold god's lovely face . the cross of christ is power indeed against the serpent and his seed . and salvation it doth bring to all that do believe there●n . the cross of christ is my delight , it doth uphold me day and night : it keeps me from the power of sin , through christ who is my heavenly king. without the cross i cannot be from sin and death at all set free . the cross alone doth crucifie transgression , sin , iniquity . it doth break down the middle wall , and slays the enmity withall : and makes of twain one perefect man , and so renews christ for me again . the cross of christ it doth destroy that nature that doth disobey , in those that do themselves deny , and take it up most willingly , and daily bear it after him , who is our lord , and prince , and king ; and not at all to let it down , till they come to enjoy the crown . the cross of christ is power and life , it doth destroy all mortal strife ; it keepeth from the power of sin , all those that love to walk therein . all that do own christ jesus cross , through self-denial they must pass , for to be purged from their sin , and no longer live therein . the cross of christ doth operate through every vein and vital part , the heart and reins to cleanse from sin , of them that 's exercis'd therein . they that live in sin and wicedness , are enemies to christ jesus cross ; for all sin and uncleanness doth pierce the life of christ jesus . perfect love , and breathings of undefiled life , to the seed of god , greeting . the streams of beauty , pure and bright , that springeth up both day and night . my love to truth doth me constrain in prison ever to remain ; if it be so that even i cannot in truth be set at liberty . my deare redeemer's face so bright . doth shine upon me day & night : his count'nance doth exceed all captivity and bodage , thrall , amen , k. e. my love , it cometh from a harmless dove , within vvhose breats doth still remain god's perfect praises to maintain . i have not time nor place to shovv the love vvhich from my soul doth flovv . the blessing of the almighty be upon thee , and upon the vvhole israel of god , amen . these writings follovving are copies of divers letters which they had written to their friends and near relations in the time of my visitation of them : but it came so to pass , that as they were handing the same through the grace of the prison , by the hand of another man to be communicated to my hand , being then present in the room also , that the said letters were intercepted , and in the first place communicated to the pope's lord inquisitor , and he forthvvith sent for the consul , and charged him to get the same truly copied forth . then the consul vvas vvrath vvith me that he should be exercised vvith so much trouble : but in the light and counsel of my god i seeing and ●novving that there vvas nothing in them but vvhat came from a good ground of innocency and truth , and pure natural affection , i was moved in bovvels of tender love , lest the said letters should be finally miscarried , or shut up in obscurity , therefore i propounded to the consul , if that were such a trouble to him , if he would let me have the letters , i should copy them out truly . and after some time he consented , and gave them into my hand , and laid it upon my conscience to perform as i had said , which i did with gladness of heart , not in submission to his will , but in obedience to the god of love and peace which guided me in the same ; and so after i had finished them , i gave the fair copies into the consul's hands for his lord inquisitor . and so in the wisdom of the lord , which is wiser than the serpents , i obtained the very desire of my heart for his truth and peoples sake , and retained the original copies , and in the endless love and power of the lord almighty , which was , and is with me , and accompanied me ( blessed and magnified be the power of his excellent majesty and glory , ●men ) over the heads of the lofty mountains , and barren hills , i brought the treasures of a blessed and good ground away with this body in which i am ; so that they were not onely in my hands , but also the precious substance and virtue of the same that accompanied them , even in my heart , within my bosom ; and the words of wisdoms life did i wear as a chain of precious stones and diamonds about my neck , and as bracelets and ornaments of a comely and delicate chaste bride , about my hands and loins ; and behold the almighty lord and king of eternal life , that had so mightily preserved me in the shadow of his hand of almightiness , which stopt the mouths of devouring lyons , and chained and limited the ravening and devouring wild beasts of the forrest , even he the king of blessedness and endless glory , filled my heart with his spotless and unexpressible love : and as i lay upon the deck of the vessel in which i was a passenger , and a stranger among men of many and divers nations , in the morning of the day i felt and beheld the exceeding glory of the lord under the secret shadow of his almightiness , in a vision of god ; and in the same i beheld the bride , the lamb's wife , prepared for the bridegroom 's coming ; and why should not i declare somewhat of the felicity that mine eye in the eternal life of blessedness saw , albeit the rest is unutterable which i felt , and know how to be silent in the father's presence , where every babe knoweth my voice , which is to give a sound in their ears to whom i write ; and not to spread pearls before swine , that will defile and trample on them ; that mine eye , mine eye hath seen , and perfectly beheld the free-born from above , coming out of the wilderness , covered with goodly and comely raiment , white and clean , as the light of the sun , or as a stone most precious , clear as chrystal , and mine eye beheld a crown which was embraced in the arms of the bridegroom , and the crown was well adorned with many stars which did excel each other in glory , and mine eye beheld the son as a bride groom rejoicing over the virgin-bride of his espousal , so that i was even sick with pure and undefiled love . mine eye , mine eye did so affect my heart , so that i awaked in the same , in the morning of a clear day , and i looked , and behold the sun was arisen-above the horizon of the earth and waters , and my life abundantly blessed and magnified the living lord , my king and my god , the rock of my strength , and saving health of his annointed , and behold i had seen a vision of god in the morning-light , and the sweet solution of the same was given me to treasure up within my very heart , till an appointed time and season ; the children of the morning-light may right-well read the same as they sit together in their several places that 's over and above the earth , and be comforted and refreshed at the joyful sound of the same voice that brings the glad tydings of the good things ; yea and my spirit with you the blessed of the lord , shall bless his name who is the mighty god in the midst of us : even so amen , ha-le-lu-jah . praise ye the lord , salvation to his name , ye saints in life , free from all strife , your voice sound forth the same my life shall sing to sion's king , his love in peace and glory , who hath so free begotten me into his life that 's holy . among his saints & messengers , his fame my heart shall sound , because their life is free from strife , in love that doth abound . my prayers in the life that 's clean , shall from the same ascend , unto the god of love and peace , that he may you defend . to perfect love and unity , that it may more abound ; for so your fame in his pure name doth give a certain sound . unto the nations round about , your same aloud shall sing , to call them all both great and small , to bow to sion's king. your gates alwayes ( of perfect praise ) full wide shall open stand , that all may come i' th free-born son ( th' light ) to dwel in your land of rest and peace in righteousness , t'th living way that 's holy ; so you shall sing , and fruit shall spring within the city holy . the vine that 's true , shall compass you that sit under his shade , with great delight in his clear sight , none shal make you afraid . within the perfect love here is no fear , so in the father's sight you are right dear . my bowels and my soul , my very heart to you ye living saints extends ; much could i write in the true light , but ye can read my friends . without a book of words which finally may end ; my mind that 's clean , come read the same , behold i am your friend . in jacob's land where he did stand . i' th place that 's blest , where he did rest , who like a prince prevail'd with the true lord of might , who also blessed him even in the morning-light , selah . and seeing that it happened so , that the copies of the letters of the lords prisoners , were left in the hands of their enemies , in a strange land , it is seen meet to insert them among the rest of their writings , for the good of many of their own nation of england , who may right-well savour the tender love and virtue of true and pure natural affection , not onely to their kindred and fathers house , but also to their own countrey ; all of which they were truly called to forsake , as was good old abraham our father , who in obedience to the good word and commandment of the almighty god , went forth , not knowing whither he went , even as these poor , and many more , who are deemed by the wise of this world , foolish things , not well considering how that the lord hath chosen the poor of this world , and made them rich in faith , and also chuseth base things , and weak things , and foolish things , to confound the things that are mighty , and to bring to nought things that are , to the end that no flesh should glory in his presence , who with his mighty hand and outstretched arm of dignity and excellent power , is defacing and staining the pride of all glory , and bringing into contempt all the honorable of the earth that 's out of order , and bringing down the haughtiness and loftiness of man , who shall know that it is the everlasting and terrible god of eternity , when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth , that presseth down and oppresseth the seed of his bowels , and trampleth on the principal wheat that came out of the good husband-mans right hand ; for which the god of heaven is visiting the nations as in the ancient days : albeit he hath long time held his peace in the habitation of his holineess , where his honor dwelleth ; but behold , behold , he is arising in the greatness of his strength , even as a lyon over his prey , or as a lyonness bereaved of her young ; for out of sion hath he uttered his voice , and thundered forth the majesty of his powerful word of salvation , through the gate of his beloved city jerusalem from on high , free-born ; which hath ecchoed into the ears & hearts of the hypocrites , & surprized the double-minded with fear on every hand ; for he hath cryed , and yet will , in the spirit of his prophesie through his sons and daughters , in whom he which is holy dwelleth , to make waste mountains and hills , and to devour at once as in the ancient dayes ; and my spirit saith , even so the lord hasten it ( amen ) for his elects sake . katharine evans to her husband and children . for the hand of john evans , my right dear and precious husband , with my tender-hearted children , who are more dear and precious unto me , than the apple of mine eye . most dear and faithful husband , friend and brother , begotten of my eternal father , of the immortal seed of the covenant of light , life and blessednesse , i have unity and fellowship with thee day and night , to my great refreshment and continual comfort , praises , praises be given to our god for evermore , who hath joined us together in that which neither sea nor land can separate or divide . my dear heart , my soul doth dearly salute thee , with my dear and precious children , which are dear and precious in the light of the lord , to thy endless joy , and my everlasting comfort ; glory be to our lord god eternally , who hath called you with a holy calling , and hath caused his beauty to shine upon you in this the day of his power , wherein he is making up of his jewels , and binding up of his faithful ones in the bond of everlasting love and salvation , among whom he hath numbred you of his own free grace ; in which i beseech you ( dear hearts ) in the fear of the lord to abide in your measures , according to the manifestation of the revelation of the son of god in you ; keep a diligent watch over every thought , word and action , and let your minds be staid continually in the light , where you will find out the snares and baits of satan , and be preserved out of his traps , nets and pits , that you may not be captivated by him at his will. oh my dear husband and children , how often have i poured out my soul to our everlasting father for you , with rivers of tears , night and day , that you might be kept pure and single in the sight of our god , improving your talents as wise virgins , having oyl in your vessels , and your lamps burning , and cloathed with the long white robes of righteousness , ready to enter the bed-chamber , and to sup with the lamb , and to feed at the feast of fat things , where your souls may be nourished , refreshed , comforted , and satisfied , never to hunger again . my dear hearts , you do not want teaching , you are in a land of blessedness , which floweth with milk and honey , among the faithful stewards , whose mouths are opened wide in righteousness , to declare the eternal mysteries of the everlasting kingdom , of the endless joys and eternal glory , whereinto all the willing and obedient shall enter , and be blessed for ever . my dear hearts , the promises of the lord are large , and are all yea and amen to those that fear his name ; he will comfort the mourners in sion , and will cause the heavy-hearted in jerusalem to rejoice , because of the glad tydings ; they that do bear the cross with patience , shall wear the crown with joy ; for it is through the long suffering and patient waitings , the crown of life and immortality comes to be obtained ; the lord hath exercised my patience , and tryed me to the uttermost , to his praise and my eternal comfort , who hath not been wanting to us in any thing in his own due time ; we are witnesses he can provide a table in the wilderness both spiritual and temporal . oh the endless love of our god , who is an everlasting fountain of all living refreshment ; whose chrystal streams never cease running to every thirsty soul , that breatheth after the springs of life and salvation . in our deepest affliction , when i looked for every breath to be the last , i could not wish i had not come over seas , because i knew it was my eternal father's will to prove me , with my dear and faithful friend ; in all afflictions and miseries , the lord remembred mercy , and did not leave nor forsake us , nor suffer his faithfulness to fail us , but caused the sweet drops of his mercy to distil upon us , and the brightness of his glorious countenance to shine into our hearts , and was never wanting to us in revelations nor visions . oh how may i do to set forth the fulness of god's love to our souls ! no tongue can express it , no heart can conceive it ; nor mind can comprehend it . oh the ravishments , the raptures , the glorious bright-shining countenance of our lord god , who is our fulness in emptiness ourst●ength in weakness , our health in sickness , our life in death , our joy in sorrow , our peace in disquietness , our praise in heaviness , our power in all needs or necessities ; he alone is a full god unto us , and to all that can trust him ; he hath emptied us of our selves , and hath unbottomed us of our selves , and hath wholly built us upon the sure foundation , the rock of ages , christ jesus the light of the world , where the swelling seas , nor raging , foaming waves , nor stormy winds , though they beat vehemently , cannot be able to remove us ; glory , honor and praises is to our god for ever , who out of his everlasting treasures doth fill us with his eternal riches day by day ; he did nourish our souls with the choicest of his mercies , and doth feed our bodies with his good creatures , and relieve all our necessities in a full measure , praises , praises be to him alone , who is our everlasting portion , our confidence , and our rejoicing , whom we serve acceptably with reverence and god-like fear ; for our god is a consuming fire . oh my dear husband and precious children , you may feel the issues of love and life which stream forth as a river to every soul of you , from a heart that is wholly joined to the fountain ; my prayers are for you day and night without ceasing , beseeching the lord god of power to pour down his tender mercies upon you , and to keep you in his pure fear , and to encrease your faith , to confirm you in all righteousness , and strengthen you in believing in the name of the lord god almighty , that you may be established as mount sion , that can never be moved . keep your souls unspotted of the world , and love one another with a pure heart , fervently serve one another in love ; build up one another in the eternal , and bear one anothers burdens for the seeds sake , and so fulfil the law of god. this is the word of the lord unto you , my dearly beloved . dear hearts , i do commit you into the hands of the almighty , who dwelleth on high , and to the word of his grace in you , who is able to build you up to everlasting life , and eternal salvation . by me who am thy dear and precious wife , and spouse , in the marriage of the lamb , in the bed unndefiled , k. e. my dearly beloved yoak-mate in the work of our god , doth dearly salute you ; salute us dearly to our precious friends in all places . i do believe we shall see your faces again with joy . dearly salute us to t.h. r.s. and his sister , s.b. and his daughter , n.m. and his dear wife , with all the rest of our dear friends in bristol . t.c. and his deart wife and daughter , and all friends in bristol or else-where . j.g. and his precious wife , children and servants , with all friends . our dear love to e.h. with her husband and children at alderberry . the original of this was written in the inquisition in malta , in the th . month of the year . sarah chevers to her husband and children . my dear husband , my love , my life is given up to serve the living god , and to obey his pure call in the measure of the manifestation of his love , light , life and spirit of christ jesus , his onely begotten son , whom he hath manifested in me and thousands , by the brightness of his appearing , to put an end to sin and satan , and bring to light immortality through the preaching of the everlasting gospel by the spirit of prophesie , which is poured out upon the sons and daughters of the living god , according to his purpose , whereof he hath chosen me , who am the least of all ; but god who is rich in mercy , for his own name sake hath passed by mine offences , and hath counted me worthy to bear testimony to his holy name before the mighty men of the earth . oh the love of the lord to my soul ! my tongue cannot express , neither hath it entered into the heart of man to conceive of the things that god hath laid up for them that fear him . therefore doth my soul breath to my god for thee and my children , night and day , that your minds may be joined to the light of the lord jesus , to lead you out of satans kingdom , into the kingdom of god , where we may enjoy one another in the life eternal , where neither sea nor land can separate ; in which light and life do i salute thee my dear husband , with my children , wishing you to embrace gods love in making his truth so clearly manifest amongst you , whereof i am a witness even of the everlasting fountain that hath been opened by the messengers of christ , who preach to you the word of god in season , and out of season , directing you where you may find your saviour to purge and cleanse you from your sins , and to reconcile you to his father , and to have unity with him and all the saints , in the light , that ye may be fellow-citizens in the kingdom of glory , rest and peace , which christ hath purchased for them that love him , and obey him : what profit is there for to gain the whole world , and lose your own souls ? seek first the kingdom of god , and the righteousness thereof , and all other things shall be added to you ; godliness is great gain , having the promise of this life that now is , and that which is to come ; which is fulfilled to me , who have tasted of the lords endlesse love and mercies to my soul , & from a moving of the same love and life do i breath to thee my dear husband , with my children ; my dear love salutes you all ; my prayers to my god are for you all , that your minds may be joined to the light wherewith you are lightened , that i may enjoy you in that which is eternal , and have community with you in the spirit : he that is joined to the lord , is one spirit , one heart , one mind , one soul , to serve the lord with one consent . i cannot by pen or paper set forth the large love of god in fulfilling his gracious promises to me in the wilderness , being put into prison for god's truth , there to remain all days of my life , being searched , tryed , examined upon pain of death among the enemies of god and his truth ; standing in jeopardy for my life , until the lord had subdued and brought them under by his mighty power , and made them to feed us , and would have given us money or clothes ; but the lord did deck our table richly in the wilderness ; the day of the lord is appearing , wherein he will discover every deed of darkness , let it be done never so secret ; the light of christ jesus will make it manifest in every conscience ; the lord will rip up all coverings that is not of his own spirit . the god of peace be with you all . amen . written in the inquisition-prison by the hand of sarah chevers , for the hand of henry chevers my dear husband ; give this , fail not . i do not well remember that this was one of the surprized letters . a letter to a kinswoman of s. c. s. p. my dear kinswoman , i dearly salute thee , with thy husband , and thy tender babes : i am not unmindful of thee , nor of thy love that thou shewedst to me ; i know thou shalt not lose thy reward ; thou hast found refreshment in it ; for it was of the lord ; my burthen was weighty for the lord ; i would have fled the cross ; but praises be to the lord that kept me to it , that i might not lose the crown . i was straitned in it , till i gave up to it ; praised be the name of our god for ever amen . stand fast in the lord ; let none take thy crown . the god of power preserve and keep thee low and single in his fear , pressing forward to the prize of an incorruptible crown of glory , peace and rest , out of all strife . keep to the pure life , watch the enemy ; keep thy mind staid in the measure of god's grace , that is able to make thee wise unto salvation , and to give thee an inheritance with the rest of the children of light. my tender lamb , fear and dread the living god ; keep in his presence , go not out to let in the enemy , to break thy peace and to darken thy understanding , and to vail over the pure , from beholding thy saviour : incline thine ear to him , give up to a daily cross to thy own will : stand single , empty ; wait upon the lord to be fill'd with his fulness ; let him be all thy treasure , ask of him , he giveth liberally . believe , and thou shalt receive ; his promise is large , i have found it so . having nothing , yet enjoying all things . i have tasted , handled and felt of his everlasting love , and indurable riches ; my life is wrapt up in it ; i have found him whom my soul loveth ; oh what might i do to set him forth ! he is the choicest of ten thousands , therefore doth my soul love him . my life is given up for him , his truth , for to declare ; lord guide me in thy path , and keep me in thy fear . amen . thy dear aunt : my dear love and life is with thee , and i do embrase thee in the arms and bosom of my eternal father's love , with thy dear husband and little ones . another in the same paper to friends . my dearly beloved sisters and friends of truth , i dearly salute you in the light , life and love of our god , which is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost , wherein i do rejoice , and have union with you . my life is given up to serve the lord. o how my soul travels for the seed of god's kingdom to be sown throughout all nations , for the gathering in of christ's scattered flock , and for the destruction of sin and satan . for our god is weighing the mountains in skales , and the dust in equal 〈◊〉 ballance : he is a pulling down the mighty , and raising the meek , humble , lowly ; he is a feeding the poor and hungry with good things , but the rich he sends empty away . my dear babes and lambs , seed of the sincere milk of the word of life , that you may grow up in it , and wax strong in spirit to praise the lord and to glorifie him who is worthy . be strong in the lord , and in the power of his might ; seek him earnestly , call upon him continually ; let your whole meditations be staid in him alway . seek him earnestly , deny your own thoughts and words ; give heed to the light , bring all your deeds to it ; give up all that is contrary , to be slain ; stand single , empty , naked before the lord , that you may be fill'd with the streams of his everlasting love. oh my dear hearts ! our god is full of love ; stand not back , press forward , let nothing hinder you ; the lord calls for you , my son , give me thy heart : the promise of our god is as large to you as to any , if you can believe ; your straitness is in your selves ; for god is a full fountain ; abundance of love runs forth to them that can trust him , i can witness it ; in the barren wilderness he caused streams of living water to break forth : i cannot express it is so large ; therefore doth my soul thirst after you , my dear ones ; the love of god is to you . my dear sisters , i have you in my remembrance , and do pray to my god and your god 〈◊〉 that you may be enlarged in your measures to praise the lord ▪ and to be kept in a sensible feeling of his power daily ; and that you may encrease in wisdom , strength and power over gods enemies ▪ the blessing of the lord god almighty be with you , and preserve you by his mighty power , unto the coming of our lord jesus christ , amen . salute me to my sister s. r. there is a tender plant in her , i do feel it to my comfort , praises be to the lord. i am in health i praise the lord , and do want nothing ; the lord is my portion , i cannot want ; he hath deck't my table richly , he hath annointed my head with balm , it runneth down the skirts of my cloathing . written in the inquisition-prison at the isle of malta , a sufferer for the seeds sake . farewel at this time . amen . your dear sister in the lord , sarah chevers . another from k. e. to her husband and children , with somewhat from both the lords prisoners , to friends , the which was taken with the rest of the letters , in the inquisition , and copied out for their lord inquisitor . dear husband , with my dear children . i beseech you together , to wait in the patience , having your minds alwayes staid upon the lord : keep out of incumbrances , for that is the enemies opportunity to step in , when the mind is gone forth , and to vail the pure and darken the understanding , and so hinder you of the pure en●oyment of the beholding the glory of god in the face of jesus christ. take no more upon you then you are able to perform in the spirit of moderation and meekness , for that is in the sight of god of of great pr●ze : see the lord going before you in all your occasions , that you may be prosperous in all you● undertakings ; wait diligently upon the lord , to be seasoned with his grace , that you may come to a pure understanding of the motions of his eternal spirit , and to a true knowledge of the operation of his hands ; so you will be able with all saints , to comprehend what is the heigth , and the depth , and the length , and the breadeth of the riches of his grace and love towards mankind in christ jesus our lord ; amen , saith my spirit : this is the counsel of the lord unto you . i do often remember m. h. i do desire she may be brought up in the fear of god , and want for nothing that is convenient for her ; salute me to her dearly . i have been very sensible , dear husband ▪ of thine , and our children ▪ and many dear friends more , of your sorrowful souls , mourning hearts , grieved spirits , troubled minds for us , as being members of one body , christ jesus b●ing our h●●d , we must needs suffer together , that we may 〈◊〉 together ; a true sorrow begets a true ●oy , a true cross a true crown . we do believe it is our heavenly fathers will and purpose to bring us back as safe to england , as ever he brought us thence , for his own glory , though we are some of the least of christ's flock , yet we do belong to the true fold , and our shepherd hath had as great a care of us , as he could have for any of his lambs ▪ and hath brought us through great affliction , praises be given to his glorious n●m● , of us , and you , and all that know him , for ever . though we are absent in body in the will of god , from you , yet we are present ●n spirit in the will of god , with you , and do receive the benefit of all your prayers daily , and do feel the springs of li●e that do stream from all the faithful hearted , to our great refreshment and strengthening . after our money was gone , the lord inquisitor , with the rest in authority put a great allowance in one of their servants hands for our maintenance , b●cause we could take no money our selves ; the lord of heaven did forbid us to meddle with any ; and he did send to know whether we did want any clothes , he would send it to the prison to us : this was the large love of our god to us , and we were made contented with that we had , till the lord god ( who is rich in mercy , and full of all grace , and is never unmindful of any which trust in his name ) of his everlasting love did send his faithful messenger , whose feet are beautiful , and ●ace is comely , cloathed with a bright shining garment from the crown of the head , to the sole or the foot , and came in great power and strength indeed , armed with the whole armour of light , and drest in the majesty of the most●high , and being commissioned of the higher power , went to the lord inquisitor to demand our lawful liberty , which would not be granted , except we could get some english merchants of legorn or messaena to engage four thousands dollers that we should never come into those parts again ; the lord ( who alone is our life and redeemer ) moved our dear brother to offer his own body to redeem ours , but it would not be received , then he offered to lay down his own dear and precious life for our liberty : greater love can no man have , than to lay down his life for his friend ; the lord will restore it into his bosom double ; his service can never be blotted out ; his name is called daniel baker ; his outward being is near london , a right dear and precious heart he is : the blessing , strength , and power of the almighty be upon him and his , and overshadow them for ever , amen . greater comfort could never be administred to us in our conditions ; glory , honor and praise to our god for evermore , amen . this is a dear and sweet salutation in that which never changeth , fadeth away , nor waxeth old , from us whom the lord hath counted worthy to bea● his name , and to suffer for ▪ his sake , to all our christian friends , fathers and elders , pillars of gods spiritual house , brethren and sisters in the lord jesus christ. oh my dear husband , with our dear and precious children , lambs of god , and babes of christ , begotten of the immortal seed of light , life and truth , with us , and all the whole family of everlasting blessedness . pray for us believingly ; all things are possible with our god. so my dearlings , in the arms of everlasting love do i take my leave of you ; the blessing and peace of the most high be upon you ever , amen , amen . oh my dear husband ! praise the lord that ever thou hadst a wife that was found worthy to suffer for the name of the lord inasmuch as i can understand the moving of the spirit of god : my dear and fa●thful yoke-fellow , sister and friend , is worthy to be embraced of all friends for ever ; the deeper the sorrow , the greater the joy ; the heavier the cross , the weightier the crown . this was written in the inquisition at malta , of us malta the th . month of the year . katharine evans , sarah chevers . from k. e. for two friends : dearly beloved brother in the everlasting covenant of light and life , do i dearly salute and embrace thee , with thy dear wife , my beloved sister , and thy dear children , whom i dearly love in that which never changeth : my dear and faithful friends , i am often refreshed in you , when the light brings you to my remembrance ; then do i feel the springs of love and life , which ariseth from the pure fountain of eternal refreshments , to my joy and comfort , wherein i am made to praise and glorifie my god and your god , who hath redeemed us out of the chains of darkness , and kingdom of bl●●●ness , into the everlasting brightness , glory , joy , and perfect blessedness for ever , to dwell in the enjoyment of his living presence , as we abide faithful , to eternity ; in his presence is fulness of joy , and at his right hand is pleasure for evermore . my prayers are night and day without ceasing , to our heavenly father , that not one of his begetting may ever turn or slide back , but that every one may press forward towards the mark of the price of the high calling in christ jesus , who is our life and glory , and so all may come to wear the crown of life and immortality , triumphing in the everlasting blessedness of the heavenly riches and eternal joy and happiness that 's perfect for ever , amen . oh! my dear brother and sister , we are all children of our father , begotten in the everlasting seed of the promise of eternal life and salvation . oh my precious friends wait patiently with me always in the pure fear of the perfect and pure god , who hath an eternal treasure , ful of everlasting riches and ready to distribute them to all his dutiful children : glory and praises be given to his blessed name for ever . oh my beloved ones ! your love to me is written in the records that cannot be lost . dear hearts glorifie our god in my behalf , that ever he counted me worthy to suffer for his name ; i hope to see your faces again yet once more ) with joy and gladness , with my dear yoke-fellow in the lord's work , before we go hence , and be no more seen . so in the tender bowels of pure love , do i take my leave of you at this time . the everlasting peace and blessedness be upon you , and upon the whole israel of god , amen . dearly salute us to all friends . this was written in the inquisition at malta , in the th . month of the year . katharine evans . there was another letter ( and paper ) which was intercepted ; but i have it not here with me , it being sent home from legorn . yet here followeth more of their writings to friends , and to my own particular , which at several times i received from them ; unknown to the oppressors . a copy of a letter that i was moved to write the next day after i came to the island and city , and communicated to their hands . dear lambs , peace be unto you , amen . now seeing that the everlasting god and father of all truth , hath in his tender love , and fatherly mercy , and bowels of compassion ( through the trials of manifold sufferings and temptations ) hitherto , even to this day , upheld and preserved you in the innocency , and its testimony against the contrary ; although sometimes ( i know that ) you have tasted the sentence of death in your selves , and even ( as it were ) ready to despair of life ; yet in the living testimony of innocency , in the answer of a good conscience , i daniel bear you record , ( in the covenant of life ) the same remaineth with you , and you are in it a good sweet savour to the lord , and his eternal truth and people . oh! blessed for ever be his name , yea and my very heart and life blesseth and magnifieth the lord on your behalf . wherefore my dear friends , be faithful , full of faith , and the living , invisible god of peace is with you , and will not forsake you , seeing it is so , and much more you know which might be declared . oh! i am moved in the bowels of my father's love , as one with you ( in trials , and in the exercise of manifold temptations ) to stir up your pure and innocent minds by way of remembrance , and also to beseech you to take heed to the testimony of life that 's undefiled , and manifest in you , and to dwell in the same which retains the joy and comfort of the lord , and his peace , which you know is not of the world ; and so to watch and beware of the enemy that is near to tempt to make shipwrack of faith and a good conscience , and to despair , and so to betray not only your own innocent long-sufferings , but also the testimony of the lord god of our life , for which you have so long suffered , and by the pure divine virtue of the same have you been to this day preserved ; so that the lord ( who is and will be your reward ) hath not been wanting to you on his part . oh faint not , but lift up your heads , and be faithful still as i am not otherwise perswaded concerning you ; and i am well perswaded , that in his own covenant and way deliverance will come to the seed ; and ye know , if the same come not in his own covenant of truth , in the light of his countenance , it cannot be well ; but your nay ( you know ) is to be nay , and so to stand in the truth , against the contrary , whatsoever our god permits unreasonable men to inflict upon the outward or visible body ; and the same also will work for his glory , and also for the good and eternal peace of his innocent suffering lambs notwithstanding . your tender brother d. b. and when this , with other papers i had through not a little difficulty communicated to their hands over the heads of our enemies , i was moved to speak my message as from the lord of life to them after i had offered up my body , and to lay down my life for these poor innocents , my dear friends ; and so with my voice i saluted them in the lord's truth , as they stood at the prison-grates with these words in the behalf of the general assembly of the saints in light , to wit , the whole body of god's elect , right dearly , owneth your testimony , and you are a sweet savour unto the lord and his people : and forasmuch as one of these poor afflicted lambs replied , and said on this wise , as if it was a trouble to them that they could not be more serviceable . then my heart being melted , and my bowels of pity , mercy and compassion , being moved , i said , that it was a wonderful mercy of the lord , in as much as they were preserved in their own measure of truth and pure innocency , for which my heart praised the lord for what mine eye saw , which right dearly affected my heart , and we were well refreshed at that season , in the sweet presence of our living god , albeit our bodies were at a distance , but so as we could behold each others face through the prison bars of iron , in the inquisition . now for so much as in the wisdom of god it is seen meet that the fore-mentioned and following writings which came from their hands , might appear to publike view , that thereby every member of the one body may have a right understanding , and not onely so , but also a sensible feeling not onely of the trials and sufferings in part of these innocent lambs , but also of the consolations of each other , as fellow-members of the infinite body of which christ jesus the lord is both king and head , in whom be endless dominion and pure glory , and eternal salvation , amen . and so i being as it were constrained to publish the acceptable words that sound and savor of pure innocency and clear truth , for the elect's sake , in the same love and life i am the more free hereunto , even as a child , that differs but little from a servant , as i am in the father's love , power and grace of life , fitted to serve the undefiled life of the least in the kingdom of blessedness , and to administer comfort or what else i have received from the eternal fountain or fulness , for the use or service of either body , mind , soul or spirit , of my own flesh or family , seeing no man ever hated his own flesh ; and he is worse than an infidel that provideth not for his own family , especially them of his own house . this is a sweet salutation to god's elect church in england and ireland . right dear , precious and heavenly ones , whose beauty shineth bright , and at whose name the hearts of the heathen do tremble : we who through the everlasting mercies of our god , are members of the same body , and are held in strait captivity , and hard bondage , for witnessing forth the same testimony and covenant of pure light , life and truth of our god , with you dear and faithful ones indeed ▪ we here in the same covenant of pure love , and bowels of tenderness , do dearly salute and embrace you all , glorifying and praising our eternal father for you all , who hath counted us worthy to partake of the fellowship and sufferings for the bodies sake , with you in tribulations , fiery trials , manifold temptations , fastings , watchings , heats and colds , and cruel threatning and persecutions , perils by sea , and perils by land , standing in jeopardy of our lives year after year , and looking every hour , day and night , for many weeks together , when we should be brought out to execution ; but though proclamation was made , and they came up to the very ca●e with a drum and musquets , to fetch us out to destroy us , yet the lord god of everlasting strength , who in the deepest of all dangers , and greatest extremity , when all hopes were past , did but blow upon them with the breath of his nostrils , and they did flye as dust before the wind ; for which we do entreat all friends to glorifie our god on our behalf ; for never did the lord our god work greater deliverance for any , than he hath done for us from time to time , who are the least and weakest for what we know , that ever the lord our god sent forth in so great & weighty a work ; but all things are possible with him , who made and created all things ; it is he alone which carrieth on his own work by his own mighty power , and the glory shal be his own for evermore , amen . oh our dearly beloved friends , did you know but the third part of the afflictions the lord our god hath carried us through , you would say , the lord hath wrought as great a miracle in our preservation , as ever he did in raising lazarus out of the grave : and in the greatest of our afflictions we could not say in our hearts , father , would thou hadst not brought us here ▪ but cryed mightily to our god for power to carry us through whatsoever should be inflicted upon us , that the truth of our god might not suffer through our weakness : and the lord did hear us , and answered us in righteousness , and carried u● on with all boldness , and made our fore-heads as flint , and our brows as brass , in the faces of our enemies ; that whensoever we were brought forth upon trial , all fear was taken away , that we stood as iron-gates , and castle-walls in the faces of our enemies , so that they said , we would fain be burned ; but we answered , no , we would not willingly be burned ; but if our heavenly father doth call us to suffer in that kind for his name sake , he will give us power to go through it ; and we have great cause to believe it ; for our lord god never called us to do any service for him , but he gave us power , and made way for his own work ; glory and praise be to his holy name for ever . dearly beloved friends , marvel not why israel is not gathered in all this time ; it is not for want of labour , nor travel , nor grief , nor pain , fasting , nor mourning , nor weeping , nor love to their souls ; but it is because of the great oppression : for here are a willing people , but they dare not until the lord make way for them . truly friends , we have not been idle since we saw your faces , nor have we had much ease to the flesh , but do travel night and day for sion's prosperity and perfect joy ▪ and for the reparation of jerusalem , and her pure praise ; though our sorrows are deep , and our afflictions grievous , yet we do wait with patience to reap the peaceable fruits of righteousness , and enjoy the benefit of our uprightness ; praises be to our god for ever , he hath kept us by his power and holiness , that our enemies have not one jot or tittle against us ▪ but for the truth of our god , and that we could not join with them ; so they would not suffer us to have one line of refreshment , but stript us out of all , so that we could not expect one drop of mercy , favour nor affection , but what our heavenly father did distil upon us from his living presence , and work for us by the operation of his own arm of strength and power . but dear friends ; though a long winter , and many sharp and terrible storms have past over our heads , so that we cannot express our sorrows ; so likewise we cannot declare our joys . oh! in the midst of all our affl●ctions , our god did draw nigh unto us , an did speak comfortably unto us with many sweet and precious promises , and did never suffer his faithfulness to fail us , nor was he wanting unto us in visions and revelations . oh how doth he appear in his glory , beauty and brightness , so that our souls are ravished and wrapped up with his living presence and glory many times , so that we do not dare to look out at our long sufferings nor trials , but do press forwards towards the fulness of joy and blessedness which our eternal father hath prepared for all them that love him , and walk in obedience to him ; and we know , the deeper our sorrow is , the greater our joy shall be ; and the heavier our cross ; the weightier our crown , as we abide faithful : and we do believe , that neither principalities nor powers , nor sufferings , nor imprisonment , nor pesecution , nor life nor death , shall be able to separate us from the love of god in christ jesus our lord and saviour , amen . dearly beloved friends though our bodies are bolted up in the rocks and caves of the earth , yet our spirits ( you know ) non● can limit nor confine to any place . and we do behold your order and steadfastness of your faith and labour of love , and are daily refreshed in all the faithful-hearted . oh dear hearts ! the remembrance of the least of you is precious . oh! the rivers of tears that have distilled from our eyes , whilst we do think upon you , for joy , because of your growth and flourishing in the truth . oh! you are virgins indeed , who have oyl in your vessels , and your lamps burning , and are cloathed with the long white robes of righteousness , and are adorned with the ornaments of pure beauty and glorious brightness ( abundance of you ) to our joy and comfort ; and we do pray night and day . that every babe of our heavenly father's begetting may prosper , even as we desire our own souls should prosper ; and that every one may be kept out of incumbrances , and use the world as if they used it not ; but every one's mind , spirit , heart and soul , may be exercised in the eternal , by the power of god , out of the earthly , out of the visible , out of the carnal and perishing things of this life , ( so as to trust in it ) into the heavenly , into the spiritual , into the invisible , into that which never changeth , sadeth , nor waxeth old , where every one may dwell in the enjoyment of the presence of the lord ; for in the presence of the lord is fulness of joy , and at his right hand is pleasure for evermore . oh! that every one may be emptied of your selves , and unbottomed of your selves , that you may build wholly upon the sure foundation , and anchored so fast upon the rock of ages , that neither the swelling seas , nor the foaming waves , nor stormy winds , though they beat vehemently , may ever be able to remove you . oh dear brethren ! in the life and power you may feel the issues of love and life , which stream as a river to every soul of you , from the hearts of us that are wholly joined to the fountain ; glory and everlasting praises be given to his holy name . our whole souls , spirits , hearts and minds , are given up to serve the lord in whatsoever he requireth of us , as he shall make it manifest unto us . and we do blesse his name for ever , that he hath found us worthy of so high a calling , as to bind kings in chains , and nobles in fetters of iron ▪ our prayers are continually for the advancement of the gospel of the lord jesus throughout the whole earth , for the gathering of the seed of the elect of god , and for the raising of it up over the seed of the serpent , in power and great glory , to bear rule , and to have dominion over the whole world , that the kingdoms of this world may become the kingdoms of our lord jesus , that he may rule in his princely power ; and reign in his kingly majesty , whose right it is ; that the knowledge of the lord may cover the earth , as the water covereth the sea ; that all the children of the lord may be taught of the lord , and be established in righteousness ; that so the mourners in sion may rejoice ; and the he●●y hearted in jerusalem may be right glad : the lord god of power hasten it for his own name 's sake , and for his elect's sake , that lye in captivity under the hands of the dark powers of the earth , either spiritual or temporal ; amen , amen saith our spirits . dear and precious friends and brethren , pray for us , that we may finish our testimony to the glory of god , and to the praise of his holy name , and to the comfort of all that love his appearing , and to our own eternal salvation , and to the shame and confusion of all that hate the lord jesus , and persecute his truth . so in the pure vnity of the covenant of light , life , peace , love , and everlasting righteousness , do we take our leaves of you all at this time , hoping and believing we shall see your faces once again , before we go hence , and be no more seen . dear friends , pray for us . though we were in many streights and hardships by reason of the oppression ; yet whilst our minds were staid upon the fountain , we saw no want ; but our tender father , whose heavenly eye was ever over us , saw our necessities , sent his right dear and precious servant , and 〈◊〉 and faithful steward , daniel baker , to administer to our necessities both spiritual and temporal ; he came not in his own time , will nor strength , but in the will and time , strength and power of the almighty god , at whose presence the mountains were removed , the tall cedars were made to bow , the strong oaks to stoop . oh wonderful ! he went to the lord inquisitor , ( the popes deputy ) to demand our lawful liberty , which would not be granted , unless he and we would write to messaena , or legorn , to some english merchant to be engaged for four thousand dollers : which proposition being out of the covenant of light we durst not stoop to it ; but our dear brother in christ jesus offered his body for our liberty , but it would not be granted ; nothing would serve but one to engage for four thousand dollers to be paid , if ever we come into these parts again . then in obedience to the lord he offered up his life for our freedom , but all would not serve , the will of our god be done . oh dear friends ! greater love was never heard of , than for a man to lay down his life for his friend : oh! it is worthy to be recorded in remembrance of him for ever , here he came up and down to administer to us with his life in his hand , time after time . so the lord god of power reward him double into his bosome for ever . oh how did he refresh our souls , spirits , minds and bodies through great tryals , which is never to be forgotten . written in the inquisition at malta , in the th . month of the year . by us katharine evans sarah chevers . who have suffered for the living testimony of jesus , and his pure innocency , in bonds , tryals and tribulations , more than three years , to this day . a short relation of some more of their exceeding great tryals and temptations . now in short time after we were taken prisoners , we were stung with flyes called muskatoes , in our faces and our heads , as we lay in our beds , that were swollen as if we had the small-pox , so that all people were afraid of us , save the english consul ; they thought we had been unclean persons , so that a fryar told sarah he saw an evil spirit in her face , which was a great trial ; they could not sleep in their beds in the house , they were so tormented , & we were told , that they had seen them that did pray and preach every day were burnt for witches in a short time ; and they would keep us to see our lives and conversations ; and so they have : and glory beto our god , they cannot lay guilt to our charge , but are made to confess the truth . in a few days after we were there , in a vision , in the night , the lord appeared unto me , and shewed me , that round about us , and above and beneath us , there were many magicians of aegypt ; and the lord smote me , and said unto me , the devil hath desired to winnow you as wheat ; but pray that your faith fa● not . and the sight was very dreadful and terrible ; and the voice of the lord did awaked me with much trembling and amazement , and a great war for the space of twelve hours , before i could get the victory ; and we did witness but little ease to the flesh night nor day . we went in obedience to the lord to one of their tower-houses in time of their worship , and stood trembling in the midst of them ; and i was made to turn my back to the high altar , and kneel down , and lift up my voice in prayer unto the lord , and he that was saying service , drew off his surplice , and kneeled a little beside us till i had done : and he reacht forth his hand to us , to come to him , and offered me a token ; and the lord shewed me it was the mark of the beast : and i refused it ; and he put it into sarah's hand , and she gave it him again , and shewed him her purse , that she had to give , if any had need . and he asked if we were calvinists or lutherans ? and we said , nay and he asked if we would go to rome to the pope ? but we denied . and he asked if we were catholicks ? and we told him , we were true christians , the servants of the living god. and many of them were amazed , and came round about us ; we having but little of their tongue , gave our testimony ( for the lord ) in words and signs , as well as we could ; and they were made subject to the power at that present , praises be given to our god , and we departed in peace . and since that the lord laid such a heavy burthen upon us , that we did question what he would do with us , before we knew the mind of god in it . and upon a set-day they had a great meeting to take their holy sacrament , ( as they call it ) in a high place ; but we knew nothing of it , nor where it was , but what the lord revealed to us . and we were made to go in , and stand in the midst ; and there were many lights in divers places , and many christs , as they call them , and much costliness and abominations of the earth ; they had so many sorts of holy garments ( as they call them ) of so many colours , that it would make one wonder how the devil did invent it . and there we were made to stand in the midst for the space of three parts of an hour , as near as i can judge , in great power , trembling and quaking , and bitter mourning , so that they were all amazed , and some removed further for fear , but knew not what to do ; for i never did witnesse such an earthquake . in the end one came soberly , and spake to us to go ●orth ; and we went in the lord's time , and sate at the door trembling and mourning , to the astonishment of them , and being so overcome with their abominations , we went along the street reeling to and fro , and staggering like drunken men ; so that we were a wound to all that saw us : it was the wonderful power of god that made way for us to go forth to them , and kept us . they have used all the craft they have day and night to inchant us as the lord hath made it known unto us , glory and prayses bee to his everlasting name for ever more . we know that there is no inchantment against jacob , nor divination against israel . dearly beloved friends . wee dearly salute you all in the inuisable life of ou● god , who is our life , our peace , our stay and strength ; under whose shaddow wee are refreshed , praises , glory and honour be given unto his powerful name of all his for ever . truly friends , we are not able to declare the large mercies of our god vouchsafed unto us from time to time , his born is our strength , and his name our strong tower in all our troubles , temptations , trials and sufferings ; he is a god at hand , and not afar off , and doth make us sensible before-hand , by visions and revelations , what is coming upon us ; and doth arm us with his own armou●● and makes us as bold as lyons ; for we fear not the face of man , because we know we shall not suffer any thing but what shall make for the glory of our god ; but truly we had fainted long ago , had not the lord upheld us by his free spirit ; but we know the lord taketh care of the least of them that trust him : praises be unto him for ever . dear friends , though we be ab●ent in body , yet we are present in spirit , and do feel you in that which cannot be separated , as we abide faithful , and are much refreshed in you ; and the remembrance of you is precious unto us : oh! that all our friends could prise the company and the sight of each others faces , we do not want the company of fryars , jesuits and magistrates , nor great women . here are some that have breathing after life , but they dare not shew it , for the same thing that was , is ; they will not enter in themselves , nor suffer them that would . the lord inquisitor sent to us , that if we would ( being we are good women , we should go into the nunnery among the holy women ; and be maintained as long as we live , in regard we have denied the world , and all we have . and the fryar told us , if we would come to their masse-house and receive their holy sacrament , we should be the most eminent catholicks in all malta ; but we denied them in the name of the lord , and all their dead foppery which they have invented . here we are kept under the inquisition , as they say , till they have orders from the pope of rome what they should do with us . we beseech you all ; faithful friends , pray for us , for great are our trials : did you but know the abominations that the devil hath invented here , you would think it were tryal enough : but here we have cruel mockings ; and the same contradictions , trials and temptations that ever the servants of the lord had , & christ himself : it is the wonderful power of god that we are preserved till this time ; for all the whole island are papists , and given up to idolatry . we are despised of all people , and abhorred of all nations ; and because they cannot have any just thing against us , they do invent lyes against us ; but the lord is on our side , for else the enemy would soon destroy us ; for great is their rage ; and we have continual war with them night and day we feel ; behold their threatnings and cruelty is more than our tongues can express ; great is the love of our god , for he doth refresh us with the sweet drops of his mercy , and doth water us every moment with the everlasting springs of his love , or else we had fainted long ago . oh! let all who know the lord , praile and glorifie his holy name for ever and ever , amen . dear friends friends , farewel in the lord. from us who are in outward bonds in the city of malta , for the testimony of jesus , glory be to his name for ever , who hath counted us worthy . we are in health at present , blessed be god. katharine evan. sarah chevers . several other writings to d. b. whilest he was in malta . oh thou tender-hearted one , whom our god and our eternal father hath sent to relieve us his poor innocent lambs , in hard bondage , and deep captivity , which thou art an eye-witness of ; none can receive or discern it , but those that do see it : but our heavenly father , who hath respect to the rest of them that believe in his name , hath sent thee to be an eye-witness in some measure , of what we have undergone . oh my dear , precious and endeared one ! thou meek lamb , thou innocent dove , who dost bear the likeness , beauty and brightness of that unspotted one that is come in the volume of the book to do the will of god : we can give in our testimony for thee , that thou camest here in the power and authority of the most high , to which the tall cedars were made to bow , and the strong oaks to bend , praises , praises be given to our everlasting god for evermore . oh my dearly beloved brother , thy beauty shineth indeed , thou art all glorious within and without ; thy garments are perfumed with all delightsome scents ; we smell the sweet odours thereof , and do feel the fulness of love and life which runs from thy tender heart day and night to us , and in the same unity of love do our hearts stream forth to thee , and thou knowest full well : oh how have our hearts and bowels been melted for thee ; our heads and eyes have run with tears , and our souls have been poured forth to our heavenly father for thy preservation , and we do truly labor to see thy face before thou comest : glory and praises be given to our eternal lord god , amen saith our spirits ; that he doth vouchsafe us so great a mercy as to behold the face of so precious a friend : we do beseech god to moderate us with his eternal spirit , that we may always be mindful of his mercies , and never to let his benefits slip out of our minds . we have been near death many times , when we had none to come near us , but those that preacht death and destruction to us ; i have lain twelve dayes , or more , in a fast , in strong travel night and day , that my dearly beloved yoke-mate would have been glad if the lord would have taken me out of the body , because of my weak affliction . then the english fryar which was here , came up and down to us , and down to us , and would say to my friend , she is ready to depart ; send for me , and take notice what torment she will be in ; a thousand devils will be about her , to fetch her soul to hell , because she will not be a catholick . and after we vvere parted , vve vvere called to fast , so that my friend vvas so vveak , that she put on such linnen upon her head , as she thought to lie in her grave : we did eat but little in a month together , vvhen our money vvas almost done , till vve did knovv the mind of the lord vvhat to do . then they did run to and fro like mad men , and the fryars did come and say , the inquisitor sent them to tell us , vve might have any thing vve vvould eat ; and they did say , it vvas not possible that ever creatures could live vvith so little meat for so long a time together . they bring us meat , and say , the english consul did send it . it vvas a glorious fast indeed , the lord did appear vvonderfully in it , praises be given to him for ever , amen . we vvere very vveak , because the povver did vvork so strongly ; i had no manner of food in my body five or six days together ; we did lie in clothes , because vve had no strength to put them off , nor one to make our bed : then vve did speak to the fryar , that vve might come together ; but he said they had no such order ; if vve vvould have a physician , vve might . and there vve lay , none knovving from morning to morning vvhether vve vvere deador alive . we vvere kept quiet and still till the lord's time was come ; they brought many things for us to eat : then the lord said , thou mayest take as freely as if thou hadst laboured for it with thy hands ; i will sanctifie it to thee through the ●ross . and he said unto sarah , she should eat of the fruit of her hands , and be blessed . and we did eat , and were refreshed , and glorified the lord ; we did cry mightily unto the lord night and day , that we might not eat nor drink to offend him , vve vvould rather dye . the lord vvas vvell pleased vvith our sacrifice , and did encrease our strength , and administred comfort to us ; honor and glory be to his blessed name for ever . in the lowest of all our conditions , we were kept a top of all the mountains , so that they could not make ●●hrink or bow one ●or or tittle to any of their precepts or commands . yet the fryars have commanded us in the name of their god to kneel vvith them in prayer . the time is too little for me to disclose the twentieth part of the terrible trials ; but whensoever we were brought upon any tryal , the lord did take away all fear from us , and multiplied our strength , and gave us power and boldness to plead for the truth of the lord jesus , and wisdom of words to stop the mouths of the gain-sayers , that they vvould be made to say we spake truth ; they could never say otherwise : but they vvould say , we had not the true faith , but we had all virtues . oh dear heart ! if it be our eternal father's good pleasure to carry thee away vvithout us , vve do beseeh our , heavenly father to bless , and to give thee a prosperous return , and to seed thee with the fulness of the blessing of the povverful gospel of the lord jesus christ amen . and vve do believe vve shall not vvant thy prayers , nor the prayers of all the faithful , that we may keep faithful to the end , so that our god may be glorified , his church and people may be refreshed and rejoiced , and we may receive our reward with the rest of the lord's lambs . our life is with thee ; for oh ! thou art full of love , thou tender-hearted one , vvho hath offered up thy sanctified body , and purified life , in obedience to the lord , for us poor affl●cted lambs vvith thee , and companions in tribulations , trials and persecutions , and in perils at sea , and perils by land. oh thou precious lamb of god , great is thy reward in heaven , great will be the well-spring of joy that vvill arise in thee , in thy journey : oh thou happy one indeed ! vvhom the lord our god hath made choice of amongst his faithful flock , and endued with so much povver to come into such a place as this , not the like in all europe by their own report , and all others , and to stop the mouths of lyons , and to trample upon the heads of serpents , scorpions and vipers of the earth , and they could not hurt thee ; their stings are taken out of their heads , and out of their tails , glory , honor and everlasting praises be given to our god for evermore , of all that know him ; for he is worthy . and the lord bless thee and thine for ever amen ; and encrease thy strength , and multiply thee abundantly in every good gift and grace , and prosper all thy undertakings , that thou mayest be approved for ever before the king of saints , in the general assembly of the most high , and stand before the throne of his majesty vvith joy unspeakable ; and full of glory , amen ; amen saith our spirits . dearly beloved pray for us , that we fall not , nor fail , whereby our enemies may have any advantage to rejoice , and say , we served a god that could not serve us , and called upon a god that could not deliver us ; as if we were like them , to call upon stocks , stones pictures , and painted walls , and dead thing , that cannot see , hear nor speak through their throats . we do beseech thee to tel all our dear friends , fathers and elders , the pillars of the spiritual building , with all the rest of our christian brethren , that we do desire their prayers , for we have need of them . oh ! how strong and powerful's our king to all that do believe in him ? he doth preserve them from the snare and seeth of those that would them tear ▪ we that are sufferers for the seed , our hearts are wounded , and do bleed , to see th' oppression and cru●lty of men , that do thy truth deny . in dungeons strong , and dungeons deep , to god alone we cry and weep : our sorrows none can read nor learn , but those that have past through the same . but he whose beauty shineth bright , turneth darknesse into light ; maketh c●dars to bow , and oaks to bend to him that 's sent to the same end . he is a fountain pure and clear , his chrystal streams runs far and near , to cleanse all those which come to him , for to be healed of their sin . all them that do patiently abide , and never swerve nor go aside ; the lord will them deliver out of all captivity , bondage and thrall . let e. c. know , that his exhortations i do dearly embrace , and do witness it to be an eternal truth . i have had large experience of it , the lord hath carried me on in much difficult service , so that many times the vvay hath been stopt up , that to the eye of reason i could not have a way made both by sea and land : oh ▪ if thou didst but know what experience i had of the mighty hand of the lord in making a way , thou wouldst wonder . once my vvay was stopt , and my persecution vvas so hot , that i sate in a field all night to wait upon the lord to make way for me to do the work he la●d upon me : i could not get lodging for money in town nor city ; it was at salisbury : where i was whipt in the market . and the next morning i went through the city by the watchmen , and they took no notice of me . wheresoever the lord did send me , into what land or city , or place soever , if they did put me out never so oft , he would make me go till i got victory ; save in the isle of man , there was a souldier came to my bed side with a naked sword , and took me by the arm , and ha●●d me out of the bed at the tenth hour of the night , and carried me on ship board : when i put on my clothes i did not dare to rise . that place lies upon me yet ; and i have motions to edenburgh in scotland , i was never there ; the lord did make me to do him serv●ce to almost all the mighty men in england and ireland ; insomuch that i cryed oft to my god , saying , lord ▪ what will thou do with me that am so foolish , to go to such wise men ! if i were wise , i did not care if thou didst carry me to the end of the earth . the lord said , the foolish things must confound the wise ; and he would carry me before the mightiest men in all the earth , to bear his name before them , and i should have victory wheresoever i went : and i do believe the lord , and we both are made willing to wait the lord's time , which is a time of peace and joy , safety and happiness . and we do bless , land , praise and magnifie his holy name , that he sent so heavenly a messenger to relieve , strengthen , comfort and refresh us in our great necessity , which is a mercy beyond expression ; all friends that do understand it , will say so ; glory and everlasting praises , honor , power and dominion be given to our eternal lord god for evermore , of us , and all that know him , amen , amen saith our spirit . oh true and faithful brother , into the arms of everlasting power and holiness , strength and mightiness , purity and righteousness ▪ do we commit thee , to be kept and preserved , and prosperously carried on in thy journey : ●he powerful blessing , peace , joy and happiness of the majesty of the most high god go along with thee , to preserve , and protect thee for ever , amen , amen . pray for us dear heart , that we may receive strength to overcome , that we may sing the song of moses and the lamb , and the redeemed of the lord , amen . dear heart , it is hard for us to part with thee ; thou wilt feel it . the will of our eternal father be done ; in the pure unity of the blessed spirit of light , life , joy , peace and everlasting glory , do we here take our leave of thee at this time , hoping to see thy face again with joy in our lord's time . o dear heart ! our hearts , souls , spirits , and our whole lives goeth along with thee . the pure peace of our god rest upon thee , amen . dearly salute us to all friends , for they are dear and precious to us indeed . farewell , farewell dear heart , farewell . dear heart , thou hast cleared thy conscience towards us in the sight of god and man ; if here had been many friends , what could have been done more concerning us than thou hast done ? thou hast stood in great jeopardy ever since , and thy life hath been sought for much ; we have felt it , and cryed night and day to our heavenly father to preserve thee , and safely deliver thee : whatsoever we do suffer , we desire the will of our heavenly father to be done in all things , if the lord doth stir up the earth to help the woman , it is his own free love ; and upon that account we shall receive it , and not upon any other . this they spake concerning the money i l●●t with them , and for their necessities : and the lord did appear unto me in a vision of the night , and smote me on the arm , and said , look , there is the pope , he will not hurt thee ; where he stood in the room , as one forsaken of god and man ; this was at the english consuls , when there was some fear upon me concerning him . now here is a roman in the prison which came hither upon some account , he is a a doctor of law , and differs from them in many things ; but they are all of one spirit : he doth constantly affirm , that the pope hath sent an order to set us free ; and he saith , they are lyars and false blasphemers if they do say the pope sent any such order as they speak of . they do meet every day concerning us , we do feel them ; some would have it one way , and some another , and so they cannot agree , because they do act contrary to the will of god ; the lord sets it all on fire , and hath burned all they have done these three years concerning us . now where they will look a reward of their charges , we do not know ; the wise are taken in their own craftiness , and the subtile in their own snare . there have twelve of them sate in judgement upon us three years , and some have struck hard at our lives , so that we have been even at death's door . i have lain very weak three weeks at a time . there are many for us , as far as they do dare . the lord says , there were two with the inquisitor for us , and did plead much with him : i did see it in a night-vision . the english consul which is dead , was with us two several times after we were in the inquisition ; he said he would lend us five pounds when we did want ▪ but when our money was near done , we were made to rejoice greatly , and could not take any of any one . we did not know the mind of the lord in it ; but had we had money , we had not known the mighty power of god. now we are able to trust the lord where-ever he shall carry us without money . we do question the money in the consul's hand . it will be hard for him to part with it . our life is with thee . a few lines to d. b. oh our dear and faithful friend and brother , begotten of our heavenly father , right dear and precious in his sight , and beautiful before his presence . dear heart , we do glorifie our god in our hearts , souls and spirits , who hath called , chosen , and elected thee to come up to the help of him against the mighty , and hath carryed thee along in so weighty a work , and hath prospered thee therein , praises be given to his blessed name for ever , who hath enclosed thee in his bosom , and chamber of his everlasting love , and hath hid thee in his private pavillion , where them that would hurt thee , cannot find thee , because of the shadowing of his almigh●●ness , under whose defence thou art kept safe ; and he doth carry thee upon the wings of his power , so that the mountains do become plain before thee , which we do see clearly in the light ; eternal honor and glory be to his name for ever , who is called , wonderful counsellor , the mighty god , the everlasting father , the prince of peace , in whom we have fellowship , and unity one with another , and none can hinder . dear heart , we do dearly embrace thy sweet exhortations , thou being sensible of the instigations of s●●an , ●ho hath win●owed us with every bait , winding and twining slights 〈◊〉 he hath , praises be to our god for ever , who hath preserved us , and prevented him . the enemies being busie with their temptations , to have us enter into their covenant , thereupon i was moved to write these following words , which i communicated to their hands with the former paper , viz. behold the word of life arose in me , saying , ( this morning ) keep to yea and nay , and i will confirm my covenant unto thee . these words were spoken to the true seed that shall inherit the kingdom ; the same ( you know ) is but one in male and female . and so the blessing of my life rest upon you , and be with you in the same , even in that which hath no end , neither fadeth away ; yea ▪ and my spirit saith , amen . dear lambs , read within , and be refreshed , and the god of life and peace encrease the same , and multiply your strength abundantly , amen . malta , the ●h day of the th . month , . d. b. another paper from them to my hand . dear and precious heart , in the eternal covenant of light and life of our god do we salute thee , and dearly embrace thee . oh! what hath the lord made thee unto us ! far more precious than we are able to express ; and great will be thy reward for thy faithfulness to the lord , and thy dear and tender love to us , and thy diligent care of us . oh! thou art the messenger we have cried long for , to our heavenly father , saying , how long , oh lord ! how long will it be before thou wilt send thy messenger , whose feet are beautiful , coming upon the mountains , bringing glad tyding of great joy to us thy poor captives . now hath the lord our god answered us at large : praises , praises be to his name for evermore . oh! how are our souls refreshed , and our spirits supported , and our hearts comforted , our minds rejoiced , and our bod●es strengthened ! thou canst never do greater service to the lord our god , than to come into such a place as this is , to offer up thy dear life in ransoming us : great was the power that brought thee , and great is the power that doth uphold thee , and mighty is the strength which doth preserve thee , and great will be thy reward . thy labour of love we do bear testimony cannot be forgotten , nor thy faith unfeigned put out of remembrance ; it is written in the book of life for ever , and it will be registred and read in the house of israel eternally ; the mouth of the lord hath spoken it , and he will perform it . farewell in the lord. by us ▪ katharine evans , sarah chevers . oh our dearly beloved and precious friend and brother , right honorable indeed for ever : we dare not look out at thy departure , because we stand in the will of our maker . the blessing of the almighty be upon thee for ever , and make thee flourish in all thy endeavours ; thou art called by the name of daniel baker , in the midst of thine enemies thou art in the hand of thy maker : and this the lord hath spoken , where-ever thou dost come , thy glass shall not be broken , until thy sand be run . oh! this day is this prophesie fulfilled in our sight : when they have done dealing treacherously , they shall be dealt treacherously withall ; the lord doth steal in upon them , praises be to his name . dear heart , salute us dearly to thy dear and precious wife , with all dear friends , in the covenant of grace and peace . dear heart , farewell , farewell . k. e. s. c. another letter from sarah chevers , to friends in ireland , to be read among the assemblies of saints in light. oh ! all ye righteous ones , whose dwellings are on high , in the fulness of beauty , holiness and glory , whose name and fame reacheth to the ends of the earth , to the astonishment of the heathen , and the amazement of the ungodly , to the preparation of all nations to appear before the dreadful presence of our lord god almighty to be stript of all false coverings , and to be left without excuse , glory and praises be to our god for ever amen , word hath made us eye witnesses of his mighty work , and 〈…〉 with you , according to our measures , ●o the 〈◊〉 down of the powers of darkness , and to the defacing of that pa●●ted h●● lot , mysterie babylon , with all her lover● to the utter overthrow of an●i●hrist , with all his wicked kingdom ▪ amen . the day is dawning ▪ the sun of righteousness is arising over all nations for to make a clear separation , to gather in his own flock , and to scatter the proud in the imaginations of their own hearts , to feed the hungry , to heal the sick , and to bind up the broken hearted , to cloath the naked , to visit the spirits in prison , and comfort the mourners in sion , to cause the heavy-hearted in jerusalem to rejoice . oh my dear friends ! who are precious in the sight of our heavenly father ▪ partakers of his divine nature , living stones , and holy assemblies , wherein dwelleth the fulness of god almighty's power and strength , riches , glory , wisdom , counsel , knowledge and understanding he is the rock of ages , the sure foundation , the ark of the covenant of the promise of everlasting blessedness , amen . my dear and precious ones , whom my soul loveth , my heart delighteth in you ▪ and my spirit rejoiceth greatly because of the excellency of god's almightiness amongst you , so that you are a dread to the nations ; kings , princes , and mighty men of the earth shall bow before the power of almighty god , by whom we stand , and all shall be brought under the foot-stool of christ and his government , and he alone shall reign in righteousness , and rule the nations in judgement ; then shall the cry of the poor be heard , and the sighing of the needy be eased , and the yoke of wickedness be broken , and the oppressed shall be set free , the image of christ restored , and the image of that subtile serpent defaced , destroyed , and utterly cast down for ever , amen ; so saith my spirit : glory , honor , laud and praise , be given to our lord god almighty , for ever , amen . a sweet salutation is this , from the breathing forth of my pure life , to the same life , in my spirit , joining in my measure , a sufferer for the seeds sake , glory to the lord , who hath counted me worthy ; farewel , farewel my dear hearts . my dear yoke-mate k. e. dearly salutes all friends . o ye holy assemblies ! whose hearts are wholly joined to the lord. i with you , in the life & power of the almighty god do travel for the raising of the seed , & the gathering in of the lost sheep of the house of israel . oh! blessed be the day wherein the lord called me , and counted me worthy to suffer for the seed's sake : praise , praise the lord for me ye blessed of the lord in whom the living praises are sound in the living fountain of god almighty , the fulness that filleth every empty soul , in the streams of love , life , light , strength , riches , immortality , and eternal glory ; so truth , joy , peace and everlasting blessedness remain with you all for ever , amen . my life is given up for the service of the lord , bonds , chaine , bolts , irons , double doors , death it self is too little for the testimony of jesus , and for the word of god ; so the seed be gathered , it is but a reasonable sacrifice : bonds and afflictions betide the gospel of christ ; he that will live godly in christ jesus , must suffer persecution ; it is an evident token . my dear friends , my light , my life , my love hath perfect union in the eternal spirit of the living god , and remains with you all for ever fathers , elders , pillars , nursing-mothers in israel , true israelites indeed , in whom is no guile . my dear salutation , and breathing forth of my eternal father's love is to all the breathing seed , begotten of the heavenly father , peace , mercy and truth be multiplied among you all for ever , amen . pray for us that we may have boldness over our enemies , to fu●fil the righteous will of our heavenly father , and be kept faithful in his will , for ever , amen . streams of love and life floweth from a living fountain , to you all my dear friends ; our love remaineth ever with you all , amen . present this to the hand of l. c. l c. thou nursing-mother in israel , peace be to thee for ever , amen . thy dear brother daniel baker , in the covenant of life , in obedience to the lord , hath visited us , to the amazement of our enemies , glory be to the lord for ever , amen ; he hath been a faithful steward indeed , worthy to be had in remembrance in the book of israel , for ever , amen . whatsoever for the truth we suffer , our reward is with us , and our innocent life will clear us , amen . written by me sarah 〈…〉 prisoner in the inquisition , for the clear testimony of the lord jesus : this th . month of the year . now after i had received these papers , though not through a little streights and difficulty with jeopardy of my precious life , which my god 〈◊〉 through all preserved , glory to his name ; my 〈…〉 overcome with the loving-kindness and salvation of the living lord , and in his savory life my mouth 〈…〉 giving and praises to my god ; and i said in my heart on this wise , who am i oh lord ! or what was my father's house , or what is the land of my nativity , that i ( a poor ●●flicted 〈…〉 ) should be raised up to see and perceive what mine eye , 〈◊〉 eve in thy eternal power and pu●e life behold● ! oh my god! thou hast known the innocent travel of my soul , ●hich 〈…〉 know the same is not hid from thee , even from the day of my birth , unto this moment , through no small trials and tribulations , and through the exercise of manifold temptations ; yet behold , my life is preserved a at this time : and oh ! my heart , my mind , my soul , my spirit , in thy pure , undefiled life and virtue ▪ blesseth thy name , thy pure name , which thy virgins love and live in , and in the same they glorifie thy beloved , and the wings of thy majesty overshadoweth them , and their delight is under the secret shadow of thy almightiness , blessed be thy glory , blessed be thy undefiled power , blessed and magnified be thy pure wisdom , and let the same be so even in the tabernacles of the just for ever . thou lamb of immortality , the thrones , the kingdoms , and eternal dominions are thine , and over all thy throne is , and shall be exalted , and thy lambs behold thy glory and thy majesty , in this the day of thy terrible and glorious appearance ; wisdom , riches , glory , power , might and dominion everlasting ( with eternal salvation ) over all , to thy name , amen , saith my spirit , in the life which is , was , and for ever shall be , the same which liveth and abideth for ever , and f●deth not away : in the same i commend thy dear , tender lambs , to be preserved according to thy unsearchable wisdom , and counsel of thine own heart , to thy everlasting renown and glory , and their eternal comfort and joy , and felicity with thy saints and angels in the light of thy countenance , and in everlasting remembrance in the powerful and eternal kingdom of immortality , if i be no more in this world , when this body is gone to its place , according to thy eternal purpose and decree , in thy eternal counsel ; so be it , saith my spirit , yea and amen saith my soul , which blesseth and magnifieth thy eternal name , in asmuch as thou hast so far fulfilled thy ( living ) word of prophesie , and not onely so , but much more also in the desire of my heart , in the behalf of thy dear , tender , suffering , and long-suffering seed of thine own bowels , for which be innumerable praises , wisdom , salvation , glory and dominion , to thy holy name , amen , amen . my right dearly and well-beloved friends of eternal life , of the church of the first-born of the living god , which is the pillar and ground of truth , of which christ jesus our lord is the alone and onely head : peace be unto you in him , who is arisen in his pure immortal life , and hath brought life and immortality to light , through the word of his power , and his eternal gospel of peace , which is not hid from us , but it 's clearly manifest in us by his coming , who ariseth with healing in his wings : glory , dominion , living , endless praises immortal to his name , now and for evermore ; and let all the upright in heart , with my precious life say , even so amen . dear suffering , and long-suffering lambs , ye know , that as i came in the eternal love and peace of immanuel , god's lamb , to visit and serve you , and minister to your necessities , the which in the same life and peace , and in the integrity and uprightness of heart , and in its pure innocency , my god knoweth ; and behold i call your life that 's manifest in you , ( in which is our perfect unity as members of one body , to bear me record , that i have endeavoured in the good will of my god , to perform the same ; and verily , the hand and blessing of almighty god is with me , and hath blessed me , and so my reward is with me , and my work hath been manifest before me , even in the light of his countenance that liveth for ever ; and this scripture is fulfilled in me also , the father worketh hitherto , and i work . so my dear friends , i have honestly and nakedly before the lord cleared my conscience so far concerning you , and on your behalf , which is my reasonable service ; and so i leave the same to the living testimony of the lord jesus which you hold , and for which i am satisfied , ( and in the behalf of the whole body of god's elect you have so long suffered ) so the eternal god of power , dominion and glory , of heaven and earth , consolate , support and strengthen you , ( to the end ) that your testimony may be finished with joy , to his ever ●asting praise to whom onely it belongs ; and so my spirit in the light and life immortal , saith , even so amen . farewel dear lambs , i am your true brother , d. b. joseph was not made known to his brethren the first time , though his bowels earned towards and over them , till at last he could no longer forbear crying out with tears , saying , i am joseph your brother ; and little benjamin the youngest , he dearly loved you know . this th . day of the week , and the th . of the th . mo. . when my face you do not see , wait in the eternal life , and then remember me . so farewell , and feel the well-spring of life . this and many other papers was communicated to each others hands , ( which are seen meet not to be added hereunto ) with the jeopardy of my life , and what else did attend us ; but magnified and for ever blessed be the living lord and his goodness , wisdom and salvation , who prospered his work and workers in his own life of lasting righteousness , through and over self , over all that which must dye and go to its place , amen . daniel . here followeth somewhat relating to the travel and service of d. b. which he hath freedom to giveforth for the truth 's sake , and friends satisfaction . the intent of the spirit of the lord within my heart and mind , stirring me up to write somewhat concerning my travel from my native countrey , kindred and father's house , being freely given up to serve the lord , his truth and people , in the power and gospel of god ; i having no imposition or necessity at all laid upon my conscience , as from any mortal man , but certainly it was a pure necessity from the living god of heaven & earth , many of his faithful servants , messengers , sons & daughters that were , & are as dear & precious to me as my own life , may beat me record on the lords behalf unto the truth of what i write on this wise ; & surely in the counsel everlasting , the thing was hid from me then whether ever i should return to my native countrey or not . however in the love and favour of god , and in his fear set up within my heart , was i given up , with my body also offered as a living sacrifice , which was but my reasonable sacrifice , to give a sound to the nations afar off , of the mighty day of our god , and his blessed truth , the light of jesu-manifest in every conscience , in which light we have most assuredly believed unto salvation : and verily the power and pure presence of his eternal strength was with me , through many hardships , trials and tribulations ; the right hand of the hiding of his power did sweetly guide , strengthen & support me , even as it did , and doth his lambs whom he so send forth as among wolves , in his dovelike innocency , harmlesness & wisdom , which is as wise , or rather wiser than the serpents . and this scripture have i well witnessed fulfilled whilst travelling from one nation to another people , as my father did in the ancient days . and on this wise , with three more brethren , so freely given up with one consent in the behalf of the gospel everlasting , that is now preaching again to the nations , tongues and kindreds . we set forward the th . of the third month , and we sweetly parted with our right dearly beloved friends , brethren , fathers and near relations , that were flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone , and from all our outward acquaintance , and native countrey , in the will , love and spirit of our god , in the same day from gravese●d we set forth ; and at the end of . days , we arrived at legorn in italy , where we gave a certain sound of our innocent service , and message of salvation ; and of-its life and blessedness , coming upon the nations as a weight either to condemnation or justification , as the same is received or rejected among them . and thus as we had opportunity , among the men of our own nation , the jews and others , we gave a sound and the blessing of the god of heaven , and his presence was with us , whether the nations of men did hear or forbear ; but the witness of god in sundry was reached ; and the same answered in us . and herein we are so far well satisfied , whilst others were hardened , who defied us and our testimony , as their uncircumcised fathers always did resist and gain say the truth that saves from sin , and so finally from its condemnation . and it came to pass after that we had waited upon the lord to understand his good will and pleasure , he answered us in the joy of our hearts , and we received his counsel , and communicated of the same to each other's satisfaction in the love of god , in which we were wel confirmed to obey the same until the death , as the lord our god might have permitted for his name 's sake , who then further ordained us to be separated , viz john stubs and henry fell to pass on towards alexandria , and my dear brother and companion , richard scostrop , with me , to pass eastward , to smyrna and constantinople , in asia ; and after a little season we parted in the goodness of god. and when . dayes were finished , having ( in the mean time ) touched a little season at the island zant , we arrived at smyrna . but behold it came to pass , immediately at out coming there was not a little stir ▪ together with the evil surmizings , and what else arising up as a flood , with threatnings breathed forth from the apostate christians , especially men of no small degree ( of our own nation ) against us , when turks , jew , greeks , heathens , and others , were not altogether so evil affected as to let us from the exercise of our conscience void of offence towards god and man , and so to hold forth the example of the harmless life , and unblameable conversation , in all equitableness in doctrine , life and practice , of what we professed in the midst of them . but oh ! how the christians ( by name ) in asia ( who should first have received the word of saving-health ) how did they defie and reproach not onely us , but our living testimony and message of blessedness , which day by day was sounded in their ears notwithstanding ; the lord god lay not what they did against us , to their charge , when they have most need of mercy and peace with god , if happily repentance unto life be witnessed by them , who know not what they did ; yea and my spirit is ready to say amen , for their sakes that hated us without a cause , as the same unbelieving nature did our lord and ma●●er , whom we love , serve and honor in the same , and therefore keep his sayings , which are not grievous to us in that one and the self-same spirit which reproves the world for sin , in which we worship him as the father , the which guideth into all truth , from all evil , concerning which we wel admonished their minds to subject to the one , and to avoid and turn from the other , each having their proper effects attending them ; as anguish , woes , judgements and disquietments upon the soul and conscience that doth evil ; and contrariwise , blessings , peace , glory , honor , and the goodness of god attending the soul of man which worketh good , in the light of the same excellent spirit of god which exerciseth the conscience in temperance and sobriety , meekness , and gentleness of christ. and on this wise we besought the men of our own nation , together with many more in them parts , that they may become a sweet savour of the pure life of christ and christianity , indeed and in truth , which tends to answer the witness of the eternal god manifest in turks , greeks , jews , heathens , and apostate christians among the dark nations , where they have their conversation : yet i am constrained to express somewhat of their manner of dealing with us to our good ; wherefore men of reasonable and honorable understanding , may bear with me , to the end that the honest-hearted may be informed to beware of a persecuting spirit , which is not of god , neither ever was it born of him . their threatnings encreased daily , and they burthened themselves exceedingly with us , whose deportment and behaviour they were made to confess to , as did the consul and divers others , which in truth they could not say otherwise , but that it was temperate , innocent , harmless and unblameable in our conversation ; magnified be the lord , and blessed be his grace of life , by which we in submission to the same were guided herein : but because our testimony was not for , but against whatsoever might be said in truth to be evil , unjust , or unequitable , ( which is dishonorable therefore were we hated of the high and lofty , to the disquieting of their own rest day and night , because they burthened themselves so with the truth and innocency of the lord's testimony , which our life held forth among them who received not the same in his love that they mig●t be saved not onely from sin , but also from the wrath to come . so they forthwith sent a message from smyrna , to the great city constantinople , to the king's embassador of england , and besought him to expel us out from among them of asia , that we might not have a being in the extent of their authority , in visiting them on this wise , as by the annexed warrant thou that reads the same , may understand . a copy of the warrant which they produc't and prosecuted . whereas we are informed , that there is lately arrived with the zant frigot , one daniel baker , with his companion , commonly called quakers , with intention to come up to this port ; and because we sufficie●tly have had experience , that the carriage of that sort of people is ridiculous , and is capable to bring dishonor to our nation , besides other ill-conveniences that may redound to them in particular , and to the english in general : we therefore will and require you to give a stop to the said quakers , from proceeding any further in their journey either to constantinople ; or the present court of the grand signior , ( viz. the great emperor of the turks ) or to any other place where our authority extends , shipping them away either directly for england , or any other part which they shall chuse to imbarque . and we do hereby require all officers and members of the factory , and masters and officers of ships , to be aiding and assisting to you herein : and for so doing , this shall be your warrant . for our loving friend , anthony isaacson , esquire , consul for the english nation at smyrna ; by his excellency's command . paul ricoat , secretary . given under our hand and seal , at our court at pare of constantinople , the th . day of july , ( it should be august , for we were not in asia in the month called july ) . winchels . . and forthwith this warrant was dispatcht with a messenger from the embassador's court at constantinople , to smyrna ; and behold , the merchants of the earth , and others that could not endure to hear of the sound of truth , received the same not with little gladness , ( poor me ! wo and alas for them ! ) the end of which will not be peace , but contrariwise , wo and misery ; and they put the same warrant in execution , and sent a turkish janisary , and a drugerman , that were officers under the consul of the english nation ; and they came with harmols , ( viz ▪ called porters ) with cain's weapons , and fetcht us from our lodging before the consul ; and the man was courteous and moderate , and had his car open then to what we in the reverence and fear of the lord then said unto him , which was his honor who then saw over and beyond that foolish ceremony of the hat , neither did he burthen himself with the same , as many unwisely do , the clouding or veiling of the nobility of a good understanding , which hath a more noble respect to equity , justice and judgement , without respect of persons in them , where it is set up in its proper and peculiar authority , than to such foolish ceremonies which are below men of wisdom , yet he desired that we might not take it ill as from him ( in his place of authority ) in doing as he was obliged in the prosecution of the warrant , which summoned all officers and members of the factory , with masters and officers of ships , to be aiding and 〈◊〉 to surprize and banish two innocent , naked , harmless men , that had neither bow nor sword , nor any such like material , or visible weapon of war to resist evil , as paul and barnabas had not , against whom the hard-hearted jews cryed out with the same voice , help men of israel , &c. and such like stir there was ; and we let the consul first know at our first coming , that we owned his place of authority , and were ready to submit to any thing that was 〈◊〉 or equitable ; and at last in this thing we could not submit without suffe●ing , forasmuch as in the uprightness of our heart , and in the innocency of the same were we come so far to do the will of god , and to suffer for it , as his hand permitted . so with many other expressions i cleared my conscience , as also by words . sufferings and writings , to the whole nation there ; and the consul seemed to be unwilling to use violence against us that at our departure prayd for them that hated us without a caus , knowing not what they did ; we seeing it could not at that season be otherwise , but what the lord had permitted them to bring to pass , not to their justification , but as a judgement among them from the living god , who did not onely dispence the visitation of his love and salvation day by day among them , but he visited them also with the strokes of his displeasure , even unto death and destruction : and surely he smote and took away of the chiefest , and others of them daily . and verily my heart often cryed , and besought the lord for them ( in secret more especially ; though i was constrained not to cease uttering my voice openly among them , and for them ) while they sought my hurt ; as many of them ( i know ) by the witness of god in them may remember . and so we were sent away as prisoners , or rather as lambs driven from the dens of lyons , or from the barren caves of ravening wolves , whose nature wooried them . now we had spoken for a passage by a dutch ship , to have gone from thence to constantinople ; but before the ship departed smyrna , the warrant came to the consul's hands , which thou mayest see came not from either them called turks , jews , heathen , greeks or barbarians , but even from the men of our own nation . alas ! alas ! yea wo and alas for them . so the reader may see what a stir there hath been in the region of asia against the appearance of tru●h , and its innocency , in plainness , to expel and banish it , together with its message and messengers , out of their coasts or borders ; and not to have any entertainment , or at least to come within the extent of their authority , whatever becomes of them , let them go where they will , &c. so as in effect they say , we will not have this man , the light , truth , temperance innocency , its life and wisdom from above , to rule , or have its preheminence over us in our consciences ; we will rather chuse to live in the practice of our own evil hearts and ways ; and therefore thus to their own hurt they say unto god , depart from us , for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways ; and as for the word of the lord , we have no delight in it . lo they have rejected the word of the lord , and what wisdom is in them ? and such the holy , perfect and upright man saw rebel against the light , and said , they are of those that rebel against the light , they know not the wayes thereof , neither abide in the paths thereof . and so with consent they joined together to banish truth , its message , and messengers of peace , which provoked them to jealousie that believe not , who scorned us as fools , and what else , not honestly considering , how that god is provoking the nations to jealousie and wrath with a foolish people , as in the ancient days , deut. . was prophesied : and such besought our lord and master , even jesus , to depart out of their coasts or borders , who loved and fed their swine upon the mountains , even the gadarenes besought him to depart , who saith , he that loveth father or mother , or what else , more than me , is not worthy of me ; and father and mother , and such relations , are of of more honourable esteem than many swine . and to his disciples he also saith ( that was dead , and is alive and liveth for ever ) as they have done unto me , so will they do un●o you ; if they have persecuted me , they will also persecute you . these are his faithful and true saying ; he that receiveth you , receiveth me ; and he that receiveth me , receiveth him that sent me ; [ mark that : ] verily , verily i say unto you , whomsoever receiveth whom i shall send , receiveth me ; and him that receiveth me , receiveth him that se●● me , &c. he that despiseth you , despiseth me ; and he that despiseth me , despiseth him that sent me . and it 's to be understood , that such like dealing j. s. and h. f. our brethren , found at alexandria , from whom they also were banished . and on this wise being rejected , despised , banished out of asia , from smyrna , in about eight dayes we arrived at the island zant , where my dear brother and companion in sufferings , and not onely so , but in the kingdom and patience of christ , he was visited with sickness ●igh unto death ; but the word and commandment of the lord ordered me to pass through part of italy , and my face was set towards venice ; and we weighed the thing in the fear and counsel of the lord , and were both given up in one to travel ; yet it was so that the poor lamb was not capable in body to travel with me , by reason of weakness ; and he being fully perswaded and satisfied in his own mind , that i was to pass onward ▪ in the tender love of our god he did the more constrain me ; i finding some unwillingness to leave him in that condition , which was not a little cross unto me . but in the heavenly will and peace of our god , and joy of the lord , out of all visibly we parted asunder ; and it came to pass , that he laid down his body there in about two days after . there being a ship of venice ready , i embarqued on the same , and had a good passage through the gulf of venice . after three weeks were finished , was i admitted ( together with the ships company ) to receive product or admission to come into the city as their manner is ; and there i continued about eight days as a sign and wonder among many , and gave somewhat of a sound of the lord's day ( in truth ) among them ; and from thence i travelled to legorn , and my face was as if it were set towards england , i being alone , as a mourning-dove in a desolate wilderness : yet it came so to pass , when i arrived at the same port or city , that the everlasting love of my god did fill and overcome my heart , and mine eye right dearly affected the same , and verily the living word and commandment of my god sounded in mine ear , and mine understanding was quickened in the spirit of life from god , so that i was made willing , and not to rebel against the heavenly voice , [ and what if i testifie , that mine eye saw the angel of his presence ? ] which was expresly for me to give up , and pass away from thence , to visit his long suffering seed of innocency , shut up in the inquisition , in the isle of malta , under the pope's authority , and to communicate to their necessities ; and verily the sweet promise of the lord entered and possessed my heart , and my god made my way prosperous ; for in the light of his countenance he had often set these poor , afflicted , long-suffering innocents before my face : wherefore my body and mind was freely offered up as my reasonable service , to serve his truth , and the least member of it ; and so to the death of the cross , whereto i became obedient in uprightness of heart , as if i should never see kindred or native countrey more . a vessel of france being ready to depart from thence eastward , i embarqued thereon for the isle of cicilia to musena , and from thence to the isle of malta in a vessel of the said island ; and in my passage the vessel did bear in to syracuse , where paul abode three days in his passage to rome , ( after he had suffered abode three days in his passage to rome ( after he had suffered shipwrack on malta ; ) and at syracuse i abode five days , where i gave a sound of the lord's truth and life : and so we immediately sailed from thence , and within . hours we arrived at the island of malta ; and within some hours after i came upon the said island , i had admittance to the pope's lord inquisitor , to whom i delivered my message in the italian tongue , on this wise , i am come to demand the just liberty of my innocent friends , the two english women in prison in the inquisition : and he asked , if i were related to them as a husband or kinsman , and whether i came out of england on purpose with that message . and i answered ▪ i came from legorn for that same end ; and he replied at last , they should abide in prison till they dye , except some english merchants or others that were able , would engage or give obligation for the value of three or four thousand dollers , conditionally , that they should never return again into those parts ▪ on this wise was his reply divers times , with the consul and many others , together and asunder ; but in the name and fear of the lord god i withstood the same unchristian-like demand and cruelty , in the word , power and travel of the lord in his innocent , suffering lamb ; behalf , albeit they daily threatned me with their cruelty and inquisition of darkness , and followed me to and fro with their officer and black-rod , and the popes deputy would have bound me that i should neither speak good nor evil to any one while i was on the island , as the consul said , save to him ; neither to come to the prison alone ; except the consul came also with me , or some of his family at least : but their snares ; bonds and covenants , in the name of my god i defied , because the spirit of life from the lord gave me dominion through sufferings in spirit , first , over their unjust , dark impositions ; yea ; and in the same good authority , in the innocency and uprightness of my heart , i travelled through , and over the darkness , over its works , and ceased not to publish the end of my coming ; which they would not have known abroad , & the sound of truth , and its dread and same struck terror in their hearts , that both high and wise great men ▪ together with the popish priests and jesuits , knights them called of the nobility , of the pope's dominion of spain and france , and of many nations ; they did not burthen themselves a little with my bodily presence , my clear testimony , and friends in general , all which they defied and withstood , as it doth appear by the words of truth in this treatise . and thus it comes to pass among the nations , because we are not of this world , as our life and testimony also is not for , but against the same ; therefore we marvel not if the world hate us , knowing its birth which is from beneath , earthly and sensual , persecuteth that which is from above , heavenly and spiritual , and so the lord hath made me as a burthensome stone among them . my heart blesseth his name that wonderfully preserved me . yet some of them came to see somewhat of my innocency . about . dayes i abode upon the said island , they daily continuing their threatnings against me as aforesaid , and many times attempted me to take my passage to cicillia , or to some parts of italy , to produce the unreasonable and unchristian-like obligation demanded by them ; but in the fear of god i , with my dear friends , withstood them , and they were freely given up , rather to suffer , then to hurt god's truth and people thus to gratifie them , who ( as it doth appear ) the spirit of the lord god of truth rules neither in pope , nor in any of his lords , priest or jesuits , that exerciseth such lordship over the innocent , long-suffering heritage of the everlasting god. the time hasteneth , and behold it cometh to pass , that the weight of eternal vengeance is coming over them , which the man of 〈◊〉 , and his sons of perdition will not be able to bear : for the doleful cry of the innocent , it sighs and groans with tears , hath long uttered its voice , which hath ascended into the ears of the most high , who is higher hen the highest , yet hath he respect unto the needy , to uphold them , yea and to such as are of an upright , contrite , lowly , and trembling heart ; what if i should say , the god of love and long-suffeering dwels in such ? and verily their sacrifice is acceprable in his bosome that liveth for ever ; and i am a living witness , that the sweet testimony and innocent sufferings of these his long-suffering lambs , is right dear and precious in his eye , which is the light of his countenance ; and so is is not otherwise , but the same in oneness with his people concerning them . and so in the endless mercy , blessing and peace of our god we parted , and i came away with the love and peace of my god within my heart , having the answer and living testimony of a good conscience ; and in the wisdom of god brought away these their words and writings , which testifieth somewhat of their sufferings and faithfulness unto the lord , his truth and people , which i right well know , cannot be shut out of the record of life eternal , unto which i bear record again , that they have been , and are a sweet savour unto the lord god of faithfulness , and so their reward , which attends the same , in not onely with them , but with all the sons and daughters of truth and innocency , that are so travelling in their long-sufferings , which are but light and momentary in competition to the eternal weight of glory which afterwards is to be revealed in the same that suffered in all gener●tions , even from righteous abel , unto this day of our god , to whom be wisdom , glory , salvation , and everlasting thanksgivings and dominion , for ever , amen , saith my soul and spirit , even so amen . and it came to pass in the third month of the year . also after my god had well preserved me in my passage , and in his work and service from mal●● to diverse places in italy , till i came to the straights mouth ( of the mediterranean sea ) at the place called gibralter , it was the pleasure of the lord god to suffer the wind and weather to continue contrary well nigh about daies , in which season i suffered many trials and tribulations in spirit , having little or no rest in the same , because of the vision and words of the everlasting which sounded often up to my understanding , even as the roaring of a lyon , which mine eye saw , and mine ear heard also [ in the year — . when i was a prisoner for the pure word and testimony of god and his truth , in worcester city jayl , before i departed england ] and the place was the high mountain of gibralter that stands within the king of spains dominion , which was the subject of the vision ; and ofen as i cast mine eye upon the scituation of the place , the pure life and power of god's eternal presence did arise up in me , in the word of life , so that i saw clearly that some great exceeding weighty service for his name and eternal truths sake was to be done by me , which was so terrible and dreadful to me , when as i entred into reasoning , so that i was brought down even to the jaws of death in dust and ashes ; and as jonah turned his back upon niniveh , the same temptation attended me also , to my wounding , before i could give up ; for i fled often from the place to escape with my life from among such an unreasonable and bloody generation , and the lord would not be intreated to let such a bitter cup pass unfulfilled , but behold with the sound and stroak of his eternal word , his spirit of life became awakened , quickned and mightily revived in me , in his wisdom , over all fear of the nations of men , and the same brake through the snares and bonds of death , and over destruction and the true seed that mourned , cried , not my will , but thy will be done , on earth as it is in heaven ; and so it was a hard thing to part with little isaac which is received again in the covenant of promise of life , and that was offered up which fled so often ( but at last was caught in a thicket ) . when the ships of diverse nations attempted to pass through ; but the god of heaven , whom the wind and sea obeieth , suffered them not , but they knew not what the matter was which was revealed within my heart , as the displeasure of god was against them , to humble them also , as i told them often by words and writings to clear my conscience ; albeit they strove , being perplexed in their minds , and attempted often , to wit or times in about daies , and could not pass but about or leagues , and on this wise it happened , it would ●ther prove calm , and then the currant would drive them back into the streights again sometimes , and otherwhile storms and tempests would scatter them , as a figure of pharaoh and his hoste of egyptian darkness , so that the charet-wheels mine eye saw struck off , so that they drove but heavily , within , and without ; and at last i gave out among them , that god had service for me to do at that place , and my life was given up to do his will , if i never saw my native country , kindred , or fathers house at all any more , and therefore the pleasure of the lord in his mighty power had made me wi●ling and also gave me dominion through and over the bonds and snares of death and destruction , as it were to lay down my precious life , that i may take it again , together with the body , which through his righteous judgments he had prepared to perform the good pleasure of his almightiness , for his truth and names sake . now the heavenly voice was often founded within my heart on this wise , saying ; o jerusalem , cut off thine hair , and further more to gird sackcloth on my loins , as to the prophet jeremy , chap. . . and so i became obedient in the singleness and innocency of my heart , unto the god of heaven ▪ of my life , as a dre●dful sign against the whorish church of rome , and against all her heads and horns throughout the world : and i then signified to the master of the ship in which i was a passenger , how that i did believe that god would soon give opportunity for the fleet of ships to pass away after this service of god was performed & after i had used many perswasions , to the end that he might suffer my body on that wise to be cast among the wicked idolaters , lyars and murtherers , which are like the troubled sea . so the ship-master let my body be on this wise 〈◊〉 over board from the ship , [ god having provided a great 〈◊〉 to swallow up that which sled from his presence so often ] and so it happened , that it was upon one their called holy-dayes , or saints days , namely , the day called holy-thursday . so i being cast on dry land , passed through their streets directly , until i came into the mas-house or idolater temple , among the idolaters , where i found the fryer , or priest , at the high altar , down upon his knees , in his white surplice , ado●ing of the host ▪ ( which is a chalice , or a piece of bread , which they call the real substance of the body of christ , after their unclean spirit of darkness hath muttered some words over it , which they call consecration : ) and after i had stood a season viewing this idolatry with the indignation of the eternal god set up within my heart against the same , i turned my back-part upon the priest , and his dead god , and dumb idols , at the high altar ; and in the holy commandment of life eternal , my face was set towards the people , and i be held them a certain season in the power of god in which i stood ; i saw the multitude of ignorant people upon their knees also , worshipping the dark inventions and imaginations of their sottish leaders , and blind guides , and they know not what ; and in the lord's time ( which mine eye had a circumspect heed unto ) i then spread forth my arms , and stript off my vesture , and rent the same from top to bottom , in divers pieces , and cast them from me with indignation . and then i took my hat off my head , ( which was the uppermost covering of the outside of a man ) and cast the same under my feet , and stamped upon these things ; and the nakedness appeared with the sack-cloath covering , to their astonishment ; and then with a clear voice i sounded repentance three times , and gave testimony as the sound of a trumpet among them , that the life of christ and his saints was arisen from the dead ; and so passed away , sounding the same words of the lord's message , with repentance , through the streets , as it were , flying from the idols temple , and from idolatry , and idolaters , until i came to the sea-side , and there was i moved to kneel down and pray , and give thanks to the living lord , who had so wonderfully preserved me in doing his pleasure and good will on earth ; and he suffered no man to touch or do me harm , and the next day following the lord god gave opportunity accordingly as i had let the ship-master know i believed would come to pass , and it was so , and all the fleet did partake of the blessing : but how many of them rewarded me ( men of my own nation , to whom i also continued a sign , which they spake bitter things against ) the lord my god saw the same , and smote them with rebuke and astonishment in his displeasure , who in his wise determinate counsel , ordained me for many dayes and nights to be tryed on this wise , and to fall among divers temptation afterwards , the which as a mighty 〈◊〉 of surrounded and beset me on every hand , immediately after i had done the good will in his all-sufficient power and strengths thus the enemy with his subtilty in a mysterie was suffered to compass me about , to steale away my peace and reward with my god , in whom the same is hid ; and then i was in a blessed condition , though sometime veiled for a little season , and then the fathers countenance was hid from mine eye , and therefore was i troubled : yet blessed are ye when you fall among divers temptations , saith one ; and verily they were even as thorns in my flesh , yea as messengers of satan suffered to buffet me for a season , even as the servant of god witnessed , who was wrapt up into the third heaven : what if i should somewhat testifie , so was it with me , lest i should be exalted above measure , so that i was made to bow and fall upon my face , and cry day and night to the lord of eternal life , that had respect to the tears of the innocent , and bowed the strength of his arm to support the lowly : and so his almightiness gave ear to the sighs and groans of my distressed state , and had respect unto the voice of my mourning , as a dove or pelican in the wilderness ; and verily his grace i found sufficient to save and preserve my innocency , in its sweet life of holiness to the lord , through all this , and that which letted , salvation to his name , amen . so his strength is made perfect in weakness , even so it is in truth , in which i set to my seal of my right hand , that god is true , in which life j give thanks to his name of power and defence , the which over all nations is to be exalted in the hearts of his saints , as in the ancient dayes , yea and much more abundantly in the light of his bright-shining countenance , in which his eternal and excellent glory , and pure dreadful majesty , for ever hath his holy habitation ; to whom be endless dominion , with praises living and everlasting , over all , amen . written in newgate this th . month , the th . day , . . where he suffereth bonds , together with many brethren of truth , for one and the same testimony of the lord iesus , not for evil doing or speaking , but against the same : for we suffer because we cannot otherwise but meet together in the name and fear of god ; neither swear at all , neither by heaven , nor by earth , nor by any other oath , matth. . james . . d. b. a copy of a paper which was written in the spanish tongue , and delivered the same day that i was upon the service , directed as followeth , viz. for the governor and inhabitants of gib●etore , in the kingdom of spain behold , behold , the great day of god is come , and of his wrath , and of the wrath of his lamb is come , and the hour of his iudgements is come , wherefore oh inhabitants of the earth , repent , repent , repent , and fear god , and give glory & honor to him that made heaven and earth , and the fountains of waters : wo , wo , wo to the inhabitants of the earth : and i heard another voice from heaven , saying , come out of her my people , that ye partake not of her sins , & that ye receive not of her plagues . these are the words of the power of christ that is contrary to the false church . behold behold , plagues , plagues , plagues are coming upon the church of rome , and upon her heads in england , & in all parts of the world . and the woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth ; and he saith unto me , the waters which thou sawest where the whore sitteth , are peoples , nations , multitudes and tongue ; &c these words , with a paper in l●t●ne with honest words of truth , was delivered with many more scriptures in their own language , that they may read , understand , repent , & cease from idolatry , & from all ●ngodliness , that the blessings of eternal life might arise through judgments , & have room among the nations , to the eternal glory & renown of the lord god over all who is blessed for ever ▪ amen . the end ▪ notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e prov. . notes for div a -e * the wise may judge . notes for div a -e job . . job . john . isaiah . . an epistle of tender love, or cheerful sound by the breath of life to the whole flock of god, who have been eye-witnesses of his glorious appearings in these last dayes. greene, thomas, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an epistle of tender love, or cheerful sound by the breath of life to the whole flock of god, who have been eye-witnesses of his glorious appearings in these last dayes. greene, thomas, ?- . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] imprint from wing. signed and dated at end: the th of the th month, . thomas green. reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an epistle of tender love , or cheerful sound by the breath of life , to the whole flock of god , who have been eye witnesses of his glorious appearings in these last dayes . most dearly and well beloved friends , brethren , and sisters whom the lord hath gathered to be a people , to be to the praise of his name , who once were not a people , but were scattered as among the tribes , and a certain dwelling place we knew not , but went mourning as a dove without a mate , saying , where is our souls beloved ? and when we were almost out of hope , then the voice out of the excellent glory was uttered , and a light began to shine in the midst of darkness , even when we were ready to say , we must now dwell in the house of mourning , and the shaddow of death must be our habitation for ever : then , in an acceptable time , when it was with us , as if it were neither night nor day , but in the even-tide , then the light appeared , and he was lifted up who hath drawn our hearts after him , even christ the light of the world , the saviour of all that believe and follow him ; this was he that we had heard and spoken much of , yet then were strangers to him , though he was nigh unto us , and spake with us , shewing unto us our lost and and undone estate ; and sometimes made our hearts burn within us : but now , blessed be the lord , who by the light which he hath caused to shine in our hearts , he hath shewed us our selves , our sins , and he who is the father of them , and hath , and is opening the mysteries of his kingdom , which consists in righteousness and peace , for such a dwelling we wanted : and he hath , and is making known a measure of the spirit , even of that same spirit which raised up jesus from the dead , in the hearts of his people ; and this is that gift that is eternal life , given of the father to rescue , and redeem , and save lost man , from the power of death , to bring him out of the house of bondage and deep captivity , into the glorious liberty of his only son , who said , father , i pray thee , let all those whom thou hast given me , be where i am ; these alone reign and triumph in the life eternal over hell and death . oh friends ! surely we were that multitude that was an hungry , which now our lord jesus hath caused to sit down , and satisfieth us with the bread of life , many times and often , that now we can say , the son of god is come and hath given us an understanding , whereby we know him that is true , even the true god , and eternal life , who is become our leader and our guide , even to us who once went astray , as sheep w●●out a shepher● but how by his spirit , we are brought to the shepherd and bishop of our souls , and now is he leading us in the way of righteousness , and is teaching us according to his promise , who said , all the sons and daughters of the lord shall be taught of him , and he is gently leading the weak and tender ones , in a way that they did not know , which hath caused them to admire the goodness , power , and mercy o● the lord , who , in the greatest trials , hath been with them , and secretly hath upheld them , and them delivered many a time , out of the snares of the enemy of their souls . by him we have seen the mountains removed and the very high hills laid low , at the sight of w ch we somtimes were ready to faint , saying in our hearts , we shall never get over them , then hath he made the mountains as a plain , and the hills as the low valeys : thus he hath prepared an even path for the just and upright ones to walk in . therefore fear not , neither be d●smayed , ye called ▪ chosen , and beloved of the lord , though your enemies be many and mighty , and appear as the sons of ahab did to israel , and you seem to them as grashoppers ; of this be ye sure , our god never changeth , but is the same unto his people , yesterday , to day , and for ever ; who delivered david out of the mouth of the lyon , and out of the paw of the bear , and in the name of the lord he ove came the great uncircumcised philistim . the lord also preserved his servant daniel in the lyons den , and job in his greatest tryals , and jonah in the belly of a whale , and paul in his dangerous voyage at sea ▪ he also by his power brought israel through the sea , as upon dry land ▪ and gave them food from heaven in the wilderness , he was as a cloud to them in the day time , and as a fire to give them light in the night season . oh great is the lord , and greatly to be feared , and admired in all his saints , who is dreadful and mighty in power , who doeth all things according to his pleasure : the earth is his , he framed it , and the great and wide sea he hath made , and by his power he ruleth it ▪ he brings the wind out of his treasure , and then the sea is troubled , then he speaks the word , and it is still again . oh ye children of the lord , have we not seen of his wonders , and been eye witnesses of his mighty works ? hath he not heard our cry , in the day of our d●stress , and given ear to our complaint ? yes , he hath heard from his holy habitation , and hath answered in loving-kindness ; he also satisfieth the poor , and refresheth the needy with his presence , who without him cannot live , nor be satisfied with any thing but the bread of life , that comes from him ; and for those he spreads a table , and feeds them , though they are as in a wilderness , and giveth them bread that the world knows not of . well my friends , did the lord hear and answer our cries in the dayes past ? when we were as ephraim , bemoaning our selves , and as david , thinking we were cast out of his sight ; yet did we look to that which was holy , which god had manifested in us , and back again into the world we could not go , neither would the shadows of the heavenly things satisfie us , but the substance , that we earnestly desired : and now the lord , by the light of his son ▪ hath made known himself unto us , and hath let us see , that he hath waited long to be gracious , and hath watched over us as a tender father ; and since we knew him to be our god , he hath been good unto us , and hath appeared for us , in rebuking our adversaries , and in driving back and overcoming our enemies within and without : and when the dragon hath been hath been wrath with us , his people , which he hath gathered and 〈…〉 up in his holy seed , then he hath caused the earth to help us , and to drink up the fl●ods that the dragon hath cast out of his mouth , on purpose to drown us . therefore fear not , o daughter of zion , whose dwelling is outwardly as in sodom or babylon , and thou at some times hast been ready to say , thy god hath forgotten thee , and the lord hath forsaken thee , because thou hast been derided of the wicked , and hast been the song of the ungodly all the day long , and in departing from iniquity thou art made a prey ; thou hast been even as a chased roe , or as a sheep alone , that no man taketh up ; and thy enemies have been many , that have compassed thee about , and pursued thee as pharaohs host . yet now arise oh zion , for thy light is come , and thy glory is risen , and thy enemies are men , and not god , and their horses are flesh and not spirit : therefore fear not man , whose breath is in his nostrils , for what is he before the lord , when he stretcheth forth his hand for the sake of his own seed , when he calls them from the east and from the west , and saith to the north give up , and to the south hold not back ? then who can hinder the purpose of the lord , who doth whatsoever pleaseth him . therefore all ye tender ones , and ye feeble of the flock , who are afraid of miscarrying , and cry because of your weakness , and of the strength of your enemies within and without , and are ready to say in your hearts , we shall never hold out to the end , and this , even the thoughts of it , is your greatest grief ; for you matter not what you may suffer , so you may hold out to the end , that your god may be honoured , and his truth , or which you are made partakers , advanced , and many that yet are scattered , into it may be gathered , by it to be set free from the pollutions of the world ; this i know you heartily desire . oh ye tender ones , whosoever ye are , lift up your heads , and let not your ponderous thoughts cause you to droop ; for in weakness is god ordaining strength , and out of the mouths of his babes shall come perfect praises , and power from him alone shall be received by the faithful , to answer his requirings ; for all our sufficiency is of and from the lord , and they that wait on him shall renew their strength . this i am a witness of : therefore now let israel trust in the lord , and know him to be all their stay , waiting diligently in the meek and quiet spirit upon him , so shall they never be confounded : for this is the day , wherein god is separating the chaff from the wheat , and is putting a difference between them that fear him , and them that fear him not ; and them that swear , and them that fear an oath , though against the last of these , even against those that fear an oath , a grievous law is made and now is the cry , we have a law , and by it you shall suffer , surely this is not added , because of transgression , which the ancient laws were , but because there is a people that cannot transgress the law of their god , therefore there is a cry , it s not for our profit to let these abide in our land. but this let all know , that the lord hath called us to be a people , and hath gathered us into his innocent life of righteousness , and to this day hath been our defence , when our enemies were many . and this also is a great cry against us , because we meet together , to wait upon , and worship the lord in spirit and in truth : therefore are we persecuted , carried before magistrates , and cast i●to prison ; so that now it is with us , as it was with the people of god in the days of old , when the snare was upon mizpeh , and a spread net upon mount tabor . notwithstanding all this , ye dear children of the lord , meet together in gods name , fear and authority , having the loines of your minds girded up , and your hearts fixed on the lord , and none forsake the assemblies of the faithful , neither let in the fear of man , who can kill the body and can do no more ; for many of you hath the lord deeply tried , and many of our brethren have laid down their lives , as the faithful ▪ martyrs of jesus , giving glory to the name of the lord ; and we know that the lord was no hard master , but hath given us power according to our trials , and in prisons he hath been and is with us ; therefore let none be troubled because of the law for banishment , neither let your faith fail , because of the great and wide sea : but now stand still and see the salvation of god , which is to be revealed to those that faithfully follow the lamb wheresoever he goeth . be stedfast , and unmovable , alwayes abounding in the work of the lord , committing your cause to him , waiting in the meek and quiet spirit upon the lord , his counsel to receive , that as the heart of one man , with one consent , ye may worship , and bless , and praise the almighty god in the sense of his love ; so his blessing will rest upon the whole camp , and his invisible power will be your shield in the greatest tryals , you to defend and preserve in peace with your god ; this my soul greatly desiers . this as a token of my love unto you ( by the breath of life ) for the stirring up of your pure minds , and that none may fear those things which they may suffer , but that your trust may be in the lord , and your strength in the mighty god. thus having none other way to express what is in mine heart towards you , but in writing , i bid you farewel . the th of the th month , . given forth in the movings of gods spirit , for the refreshment of the flock of god , by a friend of truth . thomas green. let this be read in the fear , dread and wisdom of god , in the meetings of the children of the first-born . a few words to those who look for another dispensation than what is known by the faithful christians in this day, putting off and slighting the present manifestation of god unto them, and so by their unfaithfulness to the lord god, in not walking answerable to himfor [sic] his loving-kindness in his present manifestation unto them, put the day of the lord far off from them, &c. bourne, edward, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a few words to those who look for another dispensation than what is known by the faithful christians in this day, putting off and slighting the present manifestation of god unto them, and so by their unfaithfulness to the lord god, in not walking answerable to himfor [sic] his loving-kindness in his present manifestation unto them, put the day of the lord far off from them, &c. bourne, edward, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] signed: edward bourne, worcester ... . reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- england -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a few words to those who look for another dispensation than what is known by the faithful christians in this day , putting off and slighting the present manifestation of god unto them , and so by their unfaithfulness to the lord god , in not walking answerable to him for his loving-kindness in his present manifestation unto them , put the day of the lord afar off from them , &c. friends ; what do you look for ? what would you have discovered more to you of the things of god's kingdom , than can be discovered and known by the light you believing in it , and being faithful unto god in what he hath at present manifested thereby unto you ? 't is said by one who was acquainted with the way of the lord , in thy light shall we see light ; whose testimony is true , as you will be able to witness in your own particulars , by your living up to that light , in being faithful to the father of lights , in what he hath at present thereby to you made known . this i say to you in the name of the lord , till you are faithful unto him in what he hath at present manifested or made known unto you , how can you expect to know him , or the things of his kingdom , any further or more than at present you do ? therefore do not dream nor imagine of another dispensation , or of god's making more known to you , or manifest to you of himself , or of the things of his glorious kingdom to your comfort , than you know thereof at present , whilst you believe not in the light : if you do , i say and declare unto you by the word of the lord , you will deceive your own souls ; which thing i desire you may not do . you talk of a further dispensation , and so of further manifestations of the knowledge of the glorious god , then they who are faithful to god , in walking or living up to their light in this glorious day of his appearance are witnesses of , or are come to be acquainted withal : but this your talk is without a true knowledge of them , or of what they do witness , and enjoy , and partake of through the lord 's rich love and kindness , and good will unto their souls . do you believe that when our lord and saviour jesus christ was manifest in flesh , there were not as wise and as searching wits amongst them that gain-sayed , sleighted and opposed him , as any are amongst you , who put the day of the lord far away from you , though it be nigh , and the kingdom of god be at hand ? you who sleight , and disesteem , and regard not as you ought the present manifestation of god unto you ; were they not as seemingly holy , and as blameless in their conversations , and as free from the guilt of iniquity some of them as any or many amongst you are ? and was there not as much seeming holiness amongst them as is amongst you ? and yet they knew him not , but missed of the knowledge of him , and so were without the knowledge of god in the world and his wayes , as you are , because they would not come to the light ; though they could speak much of him , as you do . christ was not known to the worldly wise , nor his true followers the apostles , &c. therefore said the apostle , the world knoweth us not , because it knoweth him not : and our life , said the apostle , is hid with christ in god , &c. then why should you in the same wisdom they were in expect to know christs true followers now any more than they did then ? and if you knew the gospel dispensation , ( as they do whose life from you is hid , who are faithful to the living god in what he hath manifested unto them by the word of his grace ( doubtless ) ye would not talk so much , nor look so much for another . therefore while you have time prize your time , and sin not out your day , lest utter darkness come upon you and overtake you , and so the night come when you cannot work , which sad and woful state and condition many have fallen into , and doubtless many will fall into , if they repent not : therefore pray ye to the god of all mercies , that ye may escape the same . so fear and dread before the living god , and hasten for your lives , by abandoning and forsaking that spirit which causeth you to slight and disregard the present discovery and manifestation of god unto you , and it by which he discovereth and manifesteth his holy and heavenly mind and will unto your souls ; and so would have you to put the day of the lord afar off , which day is near , and ready to be revealed ; lest he overthrow you , as he overthrew those who put his day afar off in times past , who would not be led to repentance by his long-suffering . from a lover of your souls , and one that seeks your good edward bourne . worcester , the th of the th moneth , . being moved with fear have i given this forth , and do desire , that it would please the almighty to make it of good effect to such whom it shall concern , wheresoever it shall come . postscript . friends where this shall come , to you this is my request in love , in the presence of the lord , that you shew it to such whom he shall please to let you see there may be a service in it , which is in my judgment principally that generation , some of whom i have felt the spirit of the lord in me at times to be grieved withal , because of their sleighting the present day and opportunity , which god gives them , dreaming and imagining of that which their eyes will fail them in their looking for in their imagined way ; such a generation there is , as ( doubtless ) many of you know , who hereby are warned , the spirit of the lord yet striving with them , which if they regard not , they will be the more without excuse in the great and terrible day of the lord , when they shall have their reward according as their works have been . so , dear and faithful friends , whom god hath set apart for himself , in him i bid you farewel . e. b. a seasonable warning, and wholesome advice for merchants, owners and masters of ships, and that are occupied in the great waters, where the lord, the mighty jehovah maketh his path. brend, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a seasonable warning, and wholesome advice for merchants, owners and masters of ships, and that are occupied in the great waters, where the lord, the mighty jehovah maketh his path. brend, william, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] signed: ... ... newgate ... william brend. imperfect: torn, with loss of text. reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- persecutions -- england -- early works to . exile (punishment) -- england -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a seasonable warning , and wholesome advice for merchants , owners and masters of ships , and that are occupied in thegreat waters , where the lord , the mighty jehovah maketh his path . give eare unto this . you having to do with the strong and mighty winds which may turn to your advantage or disadvantage : and therefore he that rides on the wings thereof you are to be subject unto , and you are to hear and fear the great and wonderfull power of this god , who is our god , that the world ( in scorn ) call qvakers : and this is to warn you that you meddle not , nor have to do in transporting them , which are innocent as we are in this day , for god is our god , and he hath and is redeeming many to serve , honour and obey him , to worship him , in his own spirit and truth , in their peaceable meeting together , according to his requirings , and for which we have been imprisonned and are now sentenced to banishment , and so to be transported by some of you , out of our native countrey , and from ou●●ar wives and children , and near and dear relations , and so to be exposed to slavery and bondage , and much hardship ; 〈◊〉 for no other cause but for serving and obeying the lord , as is before mentioned : and therefore if you meddle , or have any thing to do in transporting us , you must expect our god will be against you for so doing ; and he is mighty and wonderfull in strength , and exceeding great in all his dealings , and wonderfull in his councells , to infatuate and bring to nothing the purposes and councells of them that meddle in this matter , and will certainly cross their ends that seeks to make an advantage of such an opportunity that may be presented unto them , to encourage them in hope of gain , but will turn to to their loss , because it it is against god , his truth and innocent people ; and therefore consider well this thing , that you be not ensnared to engage one way or other , but make our case your own , that you would not so be dealt by your selves , and consider the cry of the widows state , and fatherless children , and their near and dear relations , which will be very loud and piercing , and they will be heard by the righteous and just judge of heaven and earth : and can you be so hard-hearted to endure without remorse that sad and mournfull cry , which can do no less but rise in the hearts of such who are concerned in the same ; and truly friends , we know in whom we have believed in , and so are freely given up to suffer what the lord will permit men that know us not , to do unto us ; * yet we can do no less but in tenderness to all , to warn you , that you may not meddle , nor be partakers of the sins of such that are our enemies , and not ours only , but the lords , that so you may not be partakers of the reward due to such a work , as to persecute , and that to banishment , and ( for ought we or you know to death ) the innocent people of god , that he hath raised up by the migt of his own power to stand faithfull unto him , in this day of tryall , and so dare not deny the just principle of him which leads us to meet in faithfulness to worship him in this day of the great and many oppositions wherein many turn their backs upon god and his truth , which we cannot do , but desire still to follow him through great and many tribulations : and therefore in love to you all , both to your souls and bodies , and that you may not have a curse in your estates , not be blasted in your trading from sea to sea , and from land to land : and if you do trafick to those islands which we are sentenced to be banished unto jamaica and barbadoes , you may not be blasted in your designes thither ; and that you may not have a curse to follow you do i write ; and that i may be clear of you that may undertake to transport us without our knowledge or consent whatever events may follow ; and i can truly say i desire no mans hurt , but seek the good of all men , yea , the good of mine enemies , both here , and for ever hereafter ; and to deal plainly with all men , and that they may know that the mighty god of israel doth take our parts and owns us in all our sufferings and will assuredly be avenged on all such as seek our hurt , because we serve and obey him , yea , he will reprove kings for the sake of his innocent people , of which we are , and we can do no less then pray for the peace of hierusalem , for they shall prosper that love it : and if so , as true it is , then consider what must be the portion of them that hate it , and persecute , and oppress , imprison , banish and transport the innocent ones thereof for their conscience towards god , or have a hand in the same , it must not be a blessing nor prosperity , but a curse , a blast from the lord , and therefore be warned of this thing , least 〈…〉 will be indignation and wrath from god , who is a god of judgement ; so 〈…〉 mighty god who rules the winds and 〈…〉 at his pleasure , that he may 〈…〉 , nor engage to transport 〈…〉 and servants of the living 〈…〉 first with them before you intermeddle 〈…〉 atter , which is of a weighty concernment if you 〈…〉 that have , or may have to do in the sam● . the th of the th month , . and this is from a lover of all men now prisoner in newgate , sentenced to be banished to jamaica , known to some by name william brend . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * read of this kind of merchandise in rev. . , , , . the three countrey-mens english answers to the clergy-mens latine charges. or, the lay-mens plain english, in answer to the unknown language of the pretended spiritual court at winton unto which is added a short relation of the dealings of iohn hayes priest with two of them after they were excommunicated. also twenty four queries propounded to be answered by those that call themselves spiritual men. gearle, edmund, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the three countrey-mens english answers to the clergy-mens latine charges. or, the lay-mens plain english, in answer to the unknown language of the pretended spiritual court at winton unto which is added a short relation of the dealings of iohn hayes priest with two of them after they were excommunicated. also twenty four queries propounded to be answered by those that call themselves spiritual men. gearle, edmund, d. . p. s.n.] [london : printed in the year, . attributed by smith to edmund gearle. signed on p. : edmond gearle; signed on p. : josiah wichham, nicholas wonson. place of publication from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the three countrey-mens english answers to the clergy-mens latine charges . or , the lay-mens plain english , in answer to the unknown language of the pretended spiritual court at winton . unto which is added a short relation of the dealings of iohn hayes priest with two of them after they were excommunicated . also twenty four queries propounded to be answered by those that call themselves spiritual men . they are waxen fat and shining , they do overpass the deeds of the wicked , they execute no judgement , no not the judgement of the fatherlesse jer. . . wo unto them that are mighty to drink wine , and to them that are strong to pour in strong drink , which justifie the wicked for a reward , &c. isa . . , . printed in the year , . in the name of god amen . we mo●deford bramstone knight , &c. do on the complaint of henry burrat and alexander faithful , guardians of the parish church of lower wallop within the diocess of winton , as followeth . answer , it is written , thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god in vain ; & these things following are not written in the name of god , nor givenforth from his spirit , though his name be mentioned but are rather found to proceed from that which oppresseth and resisteth the spirit of god , and persecuteth his servants , there being untruth written therein ; and wherefore is it that you force them to complaint , and then herein as it were complain of them for complaining , but can you say that henry burret and alex. faithful are made guardians or overseers by the holy ghost to guard your temple made with hands . first , that thou edmond gearle art and hast been of the parish of nether wallop in the diocess of winton , and of right subject to the court , &c. answ . of right i now belong to god , whose name i see is prophaned by such as are called spiritual men , and of right my soul belongs to christ the bishop thereof , who is the power of god , which is the highest power , to which every soul is to be subject , he being exalted at the fathers right hand far above all principalities and powers , eph. . . . and in conscience to the lord i am ready to submit unto the ordinance of men , yea though they be wicked men , that prophane the name of god. . also , that the foresaid henry burret and alex. faithfull in the moneths of march , april , may , june , july , august , september , october , november , december , january , february , and march , in the years of our lord . . . and march , april , may , june , july , august , september , in the years of our lord , . now going on , and at present are guardians of the parish church of lower wallop , and are lawfully elected , admitted and sworn , &c. answ . whereas it is said they are lawfully elected and admitted , by what law was it they were elected , so long since as three years and a half ? and if by lawful is meant humane or temporal , then how comes it to passe , that men now by temporal matter are admitted into spiritual office ; or by that which is humane or temporal made guardians over , or fitted to guard that which is spiritual , or must the temporal oversee the fpiritual , or else is the church they guard temporal also . if it be , why then do spiritual men uphold a temporal church . but if by , lawful elected , is meant divine or spiritual , then let themselves declare what divine power they received from god or men , when they were elected ; and let it be proved by what divine or spiritual law of god or christ they were admitted and sworn , and when had any of the apostles or true ministers any men sworn or swearers to guard their churches . . also that all and singulaer lands , messuages , tenements , within any parish within the diocesse of winton aforesaid , are liable and subject to pay towards the repairing of the parish church , when there shall be occasion to repair the same according to the value of the same lands and tenements , &c. answ . these are words , wayes , and things of this world , which passeth away , and of the earth that waxeth old , as if it proceeded from earthly minded men , who themselves are liable to covetousnesse , & by ambition and vigour force parishioners to be liable to such payments , taxes , and cruelties , that they already begin to be weary thereof , and these lines have not the least shew of any scripture authority , nor apostolical example , neither doth this prove that such as are not of the world , as christ is not of the world , but are followers of him , that they ought to pay towards the repairing of a house made with hands , and yet be called a church , which is another thing then that for which christ shed his bloud , acts . . . also that in the years or moneths aforesaid , or in some of those years or moneths in the time of the rate or tax made , thou edmond gearle didst have , hold , and occupy a certain message or tenement , with certain lands to the same , belonging and appertaining within the parish of lower wallop foresaid , and thou wert said , and commonly reported to be the possessour and occupier of the said message or tenement and lands aforesaid , answ . this is written more like the critical subtil lawyers , such as christ cried wo against , who took away the key of knowledge , luke . . as you keep knowledge from our eyes , and not like men endued with the spirit of god , though at first you take his name in your mouths , and then go on like them tha● did so , and hated to be reformed . but by your words , it was sometime , or never that i did possesse something or nothing , and it was so , or else said or reported to be so , which words opene●h like a wide mouth , but brings forth little or nothing : but if it be so , that once or never i did possess a tenement or piece of land , and that your tax was assessed upon the same , then not upon my person ; therefore you should have sought it from the land according to your own way , whilst it was in my possession , and not upon my person , now it is not in my possession . . also that in the year of our lord . and in the moneths in the same year , or in some or one of them , the parish church of lower wallop aforesaid , was much ruinated , and out of repair in the walls , and tower , seats , and ornaments ▪ and other things to the same parish church belonging and appertaining , and this was and is true and manifest . answ . then it seems your buildings have been once going down , and so out of repair already , so that i perceive it is possible your buildings may decay , and if so , then at last fall , and come to an end : but now you appear like them that said , the bricks are fallen down , but we will build with hewen stone . but take you heed least you weave the spiders web , and hasten gods wrath against your selves , and then he brings down your high towers , and makes your walls like a tottering hedge , and remove your seats though you have set your nests on high , and exalted your selves above the stars of god , like those that act spiritual wickednesse in high places , from the which when the lord god brings you down , and rewards you according to your works , which he will surely do , then shall you know that this is true and manifest . . also that in the year and moneths , and in the year of our lord . aforesaid , and in the moneths of the same year in the time of the rate and tax , making the aforesaid henry burret and alexander faithful guardians , &c. had not within their hands or possessions , neither were to receive or have any rents , or lands , or tenements to the same church belonging or appertaining , or any other means to repair or amend the same parish church , otherwise then by m●king and imposing a rate and tax on themselves , and other parishioners and inhabitants of the same parish limits and precincts of the same parish , and that this is true and manifest , &c. answ . there you have as it was told a large story , how a rate or tax was made , but here is not one word of the law of god , nor of the gospel of his son , nor so much as three words of scripture language , but non-sence put in the stead thereof , as though there were both years and moneths in the year . and if you have neither rents , lands , tenements , nor any other means to uphold your church walls from going down , nor to repair the ruinations thereof , but what you get by force and violence like hophni and phinias , then that is the ready way to make all people weary both of you and your church too , and this is true , and may come at last to be manifefl . . also that in the aforesaid year . in the moneths in the same year or in one of them , &c. the guardians , parishoners , and inhabitants of the parish of lower wallop aforesaid , according to forewarning at certain dayes , or a certain day and place , &c. or the greatest part of them came together , and with unanimous assent and consent did tax and impose rates and taxes in and upon all parishoners & inhabitants , and other messages , lands or tenements within the parish aforesaid , and within the limits and precincts of the same parish , the holders and occupiers of the same , according to the value of the messages , lands and tenements of every person for and toward the repairation and amendment of the defects of the faid church , and ornaments , and other things belonging to the same church , and amongst other parishoners and inhabitants of the said parish , thee the aforesaid edmond gearle for a message , or tenement and lands by thee within the parish aforesaid , limits and precincts , &c. in the year and moneths , &c. held possessed , and occupied , and according to the quantity , quality , and value of the same did rightfully and lawfully tax the summe of two shillings and two pence to be paid to the guardians aforesaid , for and towards the repairation and amendment of the defects of the said church , and ornaments , and other appurtenances to the said church belonging ; and this is true and manifested , &c. answ . herein you shew again in what year ( but very doubtfully ) what moneth the tax was made , and how it came to be , but not the least example thereof from any of the ministers of christ , though you do mention it is for and towards the repairations and amendments of the defects of your church , and the ornaments belonging to the same , whereby it seems your called spiritual men are seeking to repair the defects of a temporal church , for your church and the ornaments thereof are things that are seen , and the apostle saith the things that are seen are temporal , & such things will wax old & decay and at last may vanish away , as better things then them did ; and it seems your church ornaments are defective , and the church it self defective , and it may be the upholders thereof defective , and the worship defective , and the faith vain , and then what shall we do there , or why should we pay mony to have such defective stuffe renewed , and it may be your upholding such defective stuffe is not only defective , but also to us destructive or hurtful both in body , soul , and state , which nothing can be so to us , that is truely spiritual of god ; but that this tax of two shillings two pence to be paid by me towards the repairing of the defective church is rightfully according to any gospel order imposed upon me , or lawfully according to any levitical law assessed upon the lands i then held , according to any scripture direction i do deny , neither do i believe that most of the parishioners were together at the seasing of this tax , neither can you prove the same , and therefore this is false , and not manifest . . also that after the rate made tax or imposition as abovesaid , &c. all the parishioners and inhabitants of the parish aforesaid and other proprietours , possessours and occupiers of messages , lands , and tenements within the said parish , limits , and precincts , or the major part of them have paid or are ready to pay the foresaid guardians the rates and taxes upon them imposed notwithstanding they have been disswaded from paying the same by thee and others , &c. answ . as for the major part paying the said rates or tax , the major part go the broad way which leads to destruction , who being in the worlds nature follow their blind leaders , like weary horses under their heavy burthens , notwithstanding they see their teachers reel to and fro in the matter of their worship like the waves of the sea , and stagger about the manner thereof like drunken men , and cast off their professions like serpents , and change themselves in other habits like taylors , and into other colours , shews , and fashions , like camelions , and turn with the times , like the wind , and change every season , like the moon , and conform to any thing , like time-servers , yet not so much as transform themselves into the likenesse of the true apostles of christ , neither do they bear the image or shadow thereof ; but if most of the parishioners aforesaid have paid your tax , i question not but they had rather kept their money , some of them to relieve their families , and some out of saving , or covetousnesse , and it may be some of them , had as willingly have gone to the ale-house with it , so little zeal may fome of this major part have towards your defective church , and some that did pay it , might pay because you rule with such force and cruelty over them , that they dare not do otherwise , and so those are not chearful givers , nor willing payers , and so you have not much to boast therein ; and their souls having so little benefit by that decayed and defective church that they have several sufficient reasons in themselves to disswade them not to pay without being perswaded thereunto by me and others . . also that thou the aforesaid edmond gearle , though thou hast been asked and called upon for the abovesaid summe of two shillings two pence oft times or once by the aforesaid henry burret and alexander faithful guardians , or by one of them , for and towards the reparation of the church aforesaid , yet thou hast denied , or refused , or yet dost delay or defer at present to pay the same , &c. answ . yea , i had good reason so to do , and if i had met but with such reasonable dealing as usually is among heathens , they had not need to have asked more of me , nor have had that unreasonable covetousnesse to seek any more from me towards their defective church , for the which there being taken from me by john cox , and nicholas thomas in the year . one brewing kettle , one washing kettle , one peuter dish , worth about twelve shillings , though their own demand was but five shillings five pence , which was also for repairing the defective church , so that above three years since the guardians of the said church have had from me about six shillings seven pence aforehand , which is about three times two shillings now demanded , so that of right and by good reason , if not according to your own way there remains due to me near four shillings five pence , and therefore as i said i had good reason not to pay any more toward your defective church . . also that thou knowest that the aforesaid henry burret and alexander faithful guardians abovesaid for all and singular the matters and things abovesaid , and on their parts have rightfully and lawfully complained unto us and our office in this behalf , &c. answ . this is utterly false that i do know , that you called guardians to your foresaid defective church , did rightfully and lawfully complain unto your office for all and singular matters and things aforesaid , nor yet any part thereof , being utterly false , is turned back unto you as a filthy thing , which is not in the name of god , though at first you did take his name into your mouths , and now appear something worse then those that began in the spirit , and end in the flesh , if you have only begun with his name in your mouths , and at the end lies proceed out of the same mouth , like blessing and cursing . . also that thou knowest , believest , or hast heard to be said , that all and singular of the premises have been and are true , and concerning which , and all the said premises , the aforesaid guardians do require justice to be administred , with the effects , &c , answ . what i know & believe is one thing , and what i have heard to be said may be another , for i may know and believe the truth , but if i should harken much to such lying men as the priests of england , who have now sufficiently shewed themselves , i may not only hear what is said , to be lies , but the lyes themselves , for they said and pretended they led us the right way before , and now they would lead us another way , and say this is right , and they said they were ministers of christ before , and now they deny their own profession and practice , and yet pretend they are ministers of christ now , and though they for filthy lucre turn every way like the wind , and creep for dust or earthly things like serpents , yet still they pretend to be right ; and as for your said guardians justice from you upon me , it is more like they are forced by you , and your wicked oaths imposed upon them to do what they do , when they had rather be quiet with their neighbours , who by these unchristian like proceedings are sometimes now set at variance , and so you shew your selves like fools that stirre up strife , and as for the justice of your court which sheweth little mercy , i have neither known , nor do i believe , nor certainly hear that you have full power according to your own law by special pattent or broad seal for what you do , but remember you must receive from god according to your works . by me who am a lover of the truth , called edmond gearle . jacob was a plain man and the lord loved him , and we are plain men and are perswaded that gods love is towards us ; however men may hate us and seek occasion against us , and use us hardly as our fathers were in egypt , but we having the love of god shed abroad in our hearts we dare not offend him , in doing or upholding that which the lord hath shewed us to be evil , and though we have not much knowledge in the law , yet we know what is just & reasonable ; & though we have not much heretofore known the proceedings in this which you call a spiritual court , yet we see and plainly understand that you who are the upholders thereof are not guided by the spirit of god who is love , nor by the spirit of his son , who said , love your enemies , but by another spirit , the fruits whereof both towards us and before our faces hath appeared to be quite contrary to the spirit of god which is shewn by the apostles , gal . yea , and you have shewed forth works of darknesse towards us , throwing away our hats , and even abusing them and us , as once by prophane cursing of us , and then give us writing wherein ( it may be ) is declared what is demanded , but by reason it is written in such a dark way , not only in latine , but in such an unsound and uncertain or unknown way , that if we were willing to pay it , we can scarce come to know how much it is , whereby also it appears you are men of such a spirit that seeks to keep us in darknesse and blindnesse , and from the knowledge of those things which concerns our bodies and estates as well as our souls , that by no means we might understand it , though we much desire the same ; and we know no reason that we or any else should give any unto you for so doing , neither can we be free or clear in the sight of god to pay towards the maintenance of such a priesthood , which is to be upheld by men of such a spirit , nor to uphold or repair such temples in which they ( not we ) do worship , but we confesse christ come , and him to be our priest for ever , and the bishop of our souls , and our bodies are a spiritual house built up of living stones , of which christ is the head we own , which is not a temple made with hands , for ye are the temple of the living god , and i will dwell in them , and walk in them , saith the lord ; but as for that place built with mens hands called a church , we own it not for the church , and therefore we cannot pay to the upholding of the same . josiah wickham , nicholas wonson . the reader may know that the declarations which these three men received at the court were one and the same , only their names and the summes of money demanded were several , as one two shillings two pence , another two shillings six pence , and the other three shillings . here followeth a short relation of the actions and dealings of the priest of the parish ( unto which we belong ) with us , after we were excommunicated by them . after that we had delivered into the court these our answers , having been abused in words , and our hats taken from our heads , and thrown from us ; and also one of the parators cursing of us ( which is of the spirit of the wicked one whom they obey ) and having thrust us forth of their court , could not be satisfied , but proceeded to excommunication ( or cursing ) of us from out of fellowship with them ( whom we dare not to have union with ) we say the priest of the defective church he proceeded to sentence of excommunication , and cursed us from amongst them , with the which we rested well satisfied , and had peace with the lord whom we obey ( though detected and rejected by those whose actions shew by what spirit they are guided , as may be seen in open view ▪ ) now after they had thus dealt with us in summoning us from time to time to our great hinderance ( who are husbandmen , and got our bread by our labour ) telling us divers times that we should have our articles ) or in writing that which they alledged against us , wherein also they proved liars , and so to be of their father the devil ; for when we came according to appointment they shuffled us off , and would bid us come another time , and so we did several times before we had it . but to come to the thing , this priest after he had proc●eded to excommunication in publick before his hearers , then he came to us , and demanded tithe , and coming to iosiah wickhams house , he asked him how many sheep he had shorn ( he being but vicar , having the tithe of wooll , lambs , calves , apples , plumbs , &c. ) unto which he gave him answer , that it mattered not how many sheep he had shorn , for they were none but his own , at the which he raged ; also his wife said unto him , that she thought he would not have offered to come to them for wages , seeing he had before cursed them forth of his church , unto which the priest like a ( dumb dog ) was silent , and afterward like a fox he went far about to bite , and sub poena'd us to appear at the exchequer on such a day ( it being nominated ) and then we went to the priest to speak with him about it , but he put us by and told us , that he would speak with us another time , and likewise he having before dep●ived us of the benefit of law , he then sued us at the law ( which is double wickednesse in the sight of god , and will appear odious in the sight of any reasonable man , and seems ridiculous ; according to that proverb , first cut off their legs , & then bid them go . and then for non-appearance we were served with a processe by a bayliffe , and at that time also we went to speak with the priest to know what he intended to do with us , and he said , we must go to prison , if we would not pay him , whom before he had renounced as hereticks . mark people , this man who professes himself a minister of christ , would be maintained by us whom he hath cursed ; some of his church hath also told us , that they must not buy or sell with us , & yet this priest would have maintenance from us . surely he and his brethren are not to be parallel'd , nay the false prophets of old , of whom we read , were not found in such actions . would not hophni and phineas , wicked men , ( who took the offerings by force ) have been ashamed to have acted as this man hath done , who though they did take the offerings by force , it was of them who were of israel ( and not of the heathen ) but these priests manifest themselves , yea they are already manifest to us , that can see , hear , or understand , to be absolute wolves , whose sheeps cloathing ( though now it s but narrow ) by these and such like actions will be wholly stripped off , and appear they shall even as they are , before the eyes of all . but to proceed , this priest perceiving that we were resolved to go to prison , rather then to uphold or maintain his belly ( which is his god ) he then began to fawn and to wipe his eyes ( crockadile like ) pretending he was sorry , and bid us we should not go , with other words which he used ; yet our minds he could not alter , who had faith in our god , and did trust in his name , who hath been a tower of refuge unto us ; and so we were brought to this prison , where we have been kept about twenty five weeks from our honest labours , yea , this serpent was so subtil , that he chose ( as he thought ) the best time throughout the year for his purpose , and so by that thought to get over us , it being then the beginning of harvest , and we had not any man-servant to take care for our corn , and so to outward appearance it was in danger ( or some of it ) of being spoiled . but the god whom we serve , and for whose cause and testimony we this day suffer provided for us beyond our expectation , and even raised some that were our enemies , that they profred to assist our wives and chilbren . so our harvest was brought in ( though it was something more charge to us ) in seasonable time , praises to him that ruleth over all , & since we were brought ●ither , some of his flock hath spoken with him about us , and as we hear , he gave one of them this answer , that if he should let us alone , others would serve him so likewise , and none would pay him , and so he might starve . mark how far this man is from that spirit which ruled in the apostle paul , who said , they laboured day and night , because they would not be chargeable , thes . . . but this priest iohn hayes he is so far from purposing to work with his own hands , that he intends to make others maintain him , whether they are willing or not , and so little love hath his hearers towards him , that if there were not a law he might starve , as appears by his own words . oh what a flock hath this man gathered , and what a vineyard hath this man planted , and what fruitlesse trees ( that cumbers the ground ) hath this man set , who would yield him no fruit to satisfie his belly , & what unruly flocks ( but more like herds ) hath these priests of england gathered who would give no milk . surely they are carelesse shepherds , they gather not , they heal not , they bind not up the wounds of the sheep , they seek not the lost , nor regard those that die in pollution . they eat of the fat , and cloath themselves with the wooll , sitting at ease in their houses , and fill themselves with wine at their pleasures : they waste the creation on their lusts , and rule over people with rigour : their wives sit as ladies at their feasts , and they have the uppermost room in the synagogues ; the people labour in the earth , and god gives the increase , and these caterpillers eat the fruits of their labours . but the whirlwind of gods fury ariseth which shall scatter them as the chaffe , and drive them into the lake of woe and misery , unlesse they repent with speed . wherefore all ye people that reads the foregoing with a single eye , and considers the thing with an upright heart ; hearken , was there ever such oppression as this ? read the scriptures , and trace the false prophets of old , and parallel them wi●h this man , and you may easily perceive and understand that there was not the like found among them , for though they were wicked , and their sins great , and though their abominations reached unto heaven , wherefore their solemn assemblies god could not away with , but their sacrifices were abomination unto him , and their incense which should have been a good savour in his nostrils became as a stink before him , yet we do not read that any of those priests dealt so cruelly with the people , as to thrust them from among them , and afterwards to cast them into prison , if they would not maintain them , though by the law of god there was authority given for them to have tithe ; but these priests are so far from acting by the law of god , that many times they do contrary to the law of man , in taking away their goods , and keep them in prison also . surely greedy dogs they are , and have manifested themselves to be . isaiah in his dayes complained of such , ch . . , . the watchmen are all blind , they have no knowledge , they are all dumb dogs , greedy dogs , that never have enough , looking every one for his gain from his quarter . so read people , mark your shepherds , behold and see , can they understand , are they not dumb unlesse they have their gain , yea do they not all seek it every one from his quarter , for they never have enough , but sue at law , and cast honest men into prison , hunt for greater benefices , as witnesse iohn hayes of wallop who is not satisfied with the tithe of one parish , nor is not content with sixty pounds a year , but hungers for more of these earthly things ( which is the serpents meat ) yea in stead of being servant , as paul was , cor. . . he rules as lord over them , suing and contending at law with his parishioners ; but the day makes him manifest , though the beasts go to their dens , yet the light is broken forth that discovers them all , and they can no longer hide themselves from it ; wherefore they foam , roar , and rage ( and why ) but because their time is short , for the night is over with thousands , and they are and shall be more manifest ; a day of trembling is coming upon them , wherein rocks nor mountains shall not hide them from the powerful stroke of the lamb who is coming to reign ; wherefore fear all people , and dread the lord god ye inhabitants of the earth , for a day of howling is coming upon all the workers of iniquity , all ye priests , proctors , deans and parators , with the rest of the uncircumcised , dismal is the day which hastens , and black unto you ( who have resisted the light ) a day of trouble and anguish , a day of torment , and perplexity , and of great sorrow shall compasse you , from the which there is no way to escape but by speedy repentance and amendment of life ; wherefore consider it before it be too late . j. w. n. w. now here follows a few queries for any of those called spiritual men to answer . . query . who set up the first spiritual court , and where was it set up , or whether there were any one set up by the apostles , or by the bishops in their dayes , as timothy and titus , &c. . if there were any one set up by them , then to what end was it set up , and what did they deelare was their intent who did set up such a court ? . whether it was not after the apostles decease before any of these courts were set up ( in whose dayes ) there were many antichrists entered into the world ? . whether the night of apostacy did not soon come after the apostles decease , wherein no man could work for god ? . whether it was possible for any ( who were in this night ) to do any thing for the glory and honour of god. . whether is the judge of your spiritual court ( so called ) a spiritual man , and whether he doth act for god. . whether a spiritual man of god who sits in the judgement seat can see sober men wronged in his court , and he not rescue them ? . whether a man who judges for god can hear some or one of his own court curse , and not punish him according to the law provided ? . whether a man that judges for god can see such a man wrong others more innocent then himself , and he take part rather with him that curses then with him that is abused and innocent ? . to what end are your proctors in your courts , or for what service are they , or are they there appointed to cheat the people of their money , if people have offended why should not all both poor and rich suffer alike ? . whether it s not a cheat and an absolute sin against god to take money for the offence of one when another that hath not money , or cannot for conscience sake give it you , must suffer the utmost penalty of the law provided ? . whether you do not respect persons in so doing ? . whether is your church made up of wood and stone , &c. . or whether men and women gathered together are your church ? if you say its the church of wood and stone which you own , . then whether christ purchased such churches to himself , or whether he shed his bloud for them , or whether such churches are to be presented without spot to god ? if you say men and women gathered are your church . . then whether your church be without spot , or whether your church members be holy , or whether their sins be washed away by the bloud of christ ? if you say yes , . then of what church are those who are drunkards , swearers , lyars , cursers , persecutors , gamesters , riotors , whoremongers , dancers , racers , hunters , they saying that they own you , and have fellowship with you ? . whether you own such persons before mentioned , yea or nay ? . whether your parators are spiritual men ? if so , . then whether spiritual men of god will be drunk , lye , swear , call honest mon rogues , and cause people to be idle on some of the six dayes , on which the law of god commands them to work ? . whether you allow your parators in these things ? if you do , . then whether it be not absolute deceit and lyes in you to read , and in pretence own and command people to do that , viz. work six dayes , when you intend to punish them if they do , and send men abroad through the countrey for that purpose ? . whether you own that parators may take money of some ( when they have feared them ) for their pretended offence , and so let it be sufficient for them , when others that cannot for conscience sake give into their mouthes they bring to you for a farther snare . . by what authority do you do these things ? answer these queries if you can , and send it abroad in print to satisfie the people ; for many are , and more will be weary of you . the end. this is onely to goe amongst friends. howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) this is onely to goe amongst friends. howgill, francis, - . burrough, edward, - . to the camp of the lord in england. , [ ] p. printed for thomas simmons, at the signe of the bull and mouth near aldersgate., london : ] signed on page : francis howgill. caption title. imprint from colophon. with a second caption title page : to the camp of the lord in england - signed on page : edward burrough. annotation on thomason copy: "feb: : "; also in the colophon the last number of the imprint date has been marked through and " " written below. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no this is onely to goe amongst friends.: howgill, francis c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion this is onely to goe amongst friends . to all the seed of abraham , who are jewes indeed , and israelites in whom is no guile ; who are of the true circumcission , made without hands . who are of the off-spring of david , and of the church of the first born , who are the first fruits unto god ; yee royall off-spring of the rocke of ages , who have come out of the everlasting washing ; my deare brethren called quakers ; who have eaten your bread with feare and trembling , whom your brethren hath cast out , oh how i love you ; my soule is knitt unto you , my heart and life breathes after you ; i am one with you in suffering , and in joy ; ye are the choycest of the flock , yee are the fairest of all the children which is brought forth ; oh my beloved ones , though i be among the tents of kedar as without where the voyce of the lord hath neither been heard nor known ▪ it you i forgett not , if i doe , let the tongue cleave to the roofe of my mouth , and lett me never speake more in the name of the lord ; who is my life and the portion of my cup for ever . oh what shall i say unto you , none knows your beauty , nor innocency , nor glory , but them , who are redeemed out of kindreds , and nations , and tongues , and people , and countries ; who follow the lambe whithersoever he goes . for the name of my god and your god , who is liing and lives for evermore is in your foreheads , you are his off-spring , and the fruit that came out of the eternall womb : begotten by the eternal word of life which lives for ever , and are norished at the eternall table in the everlasting mansion-house of my father which is in heaven ; none so faire , none so beautifull , none so glorious , none so rich , you are crowned with love for ever , you are cloathed with righteousnesse for ever , you eat of the tree of life which heales ▪ the nations , and of the bread of life that nourishes you up for ever , and drinks of the living waters which runs fresh , beautifull , and coole ; in it you are bathed and suppled , and made white ; you are builded upon a rock ▪ storms cannot move you , tempests cannot make you afraid ; in this you have been and are like to be tryed ; your armour is righteousnesse on the right hand , and on the left your city is free : the gates stand open day and night , and a wolf , nor lyon ▪ nor any beast can enter , no not so much as a flying fowle . oh how goodly is thy tents o thou seed of jacob , the elect whom he hath chosen ? o how pleasant is your scituation ? the tower of david , mount sion stands sure , and cannot be moved . oh who is a people like unto you , saved by our god that lives for ever ? his love is large , he is kind , he is long-suffering : he is faithfull and keeps covenant , and his promises are yea , yea : he is the amen , the first and the last . come forth my dear brethren , set forth his praise , declare his name among the heathen , publish his name among the congregations : let the earth be filled with his love and power , that his judgements may be declared , and his statutes , that they sound in the eares of generations to come . o yee that are convinced of the truth of our god , wait in that which doth convince , and keep your minds to it , and love it , and follow it whether it leads you , and it will lead you to know the gift of god which leads to repentance from dead works to serve the living god , who dwells in the immortall light : and take heed of looking back at the pleasures of sin you have formerly lived in , but wait upon the pure light of christ jesus in patience , that so you may see the enmity which is against god , and it slain in you daily : that so you may see him that is the saviour of the soule , and take heed of rebelling against the lord who hath given you a measure of his true light , to lead you from sin if you love it unto righteousnesse , from whence it comes , even from the righteous judge of all the world , who judgeeth every man out of the book of his conscience : and so prize the everlasting love of god to your soules , that you may see him who lives for ever . and all babes who are born again , who have suffered the pangs of death : and know the indignation of the lord against sin , and the terrour of the lord against the man of sin , who have roared for the disquietnesse of your hearts , who have born the indignation of the lord , and are come to the giving forth of the law , where there is thundring and earthquakes , and terrour , and great haile , and fire , and smoke , even such as was not since the beginning , in so much that you could not hear his voyce and live , nor see his face and live . stand still in patience , and let it have its perfect work in you , and bear the indignation , ye that are in it ; if you endure the tribulation with patience , hope you will see , and a time of refreshment will come : endure the crosse that the mortall , and earthly , and carnall may be judged , and the ground shaken and taken away , and that you may see the living hope to stay your minds upon . and yee who are enlivened , and doth witnesse the law of righteousnesse set up in you , which is a schoolmaster , and keeps in the fear , stand in it , and keep in the fear low , in sobernesse and calmnesse , and then you will see your hearts purified daily , and the cursed nature judged , which is out of its course , and it bridled and subjected : and the law which is pure , and holy , and eternall , which stands for ever in power and force against the transgressour , to judge all unrighteousnesse : and so wait that you may see the lyon tamed , and the wild heifer yoked , and the yoke of christ born : and the wild colt tamed by him , upon which never man sate before : then and not till then is hosanna sung . and all wait in your measures , dear babes , that the milk of the word you may see , and be nourished by it , and grow up as living branches about the table of the lord . and all you young men and virgins , that know virginity , keep your virgin-you in whom the prince of this world is judged and cast out : and the righteous law of god revealed and given forth , in which you stand and walk and hath peace , from him who is the law-giver and judge : who hath saved you from your iniquities , and blotted out your sins for his owne name sake : you who knowes the living water and spirit of which you are born again , and witnesses the birth which enters into the kingdome of god , where no mortall or unclean beast can come . keep in the life and power of god which limits all , and chaines all under , that the life of the son of god may live and speak in you , and be bould : in the dread of god stand : and that which leads into slavery keep out . and now being made partakers of his everlasting love , walk worthy of his love , and of the high calling whereunto you are called , who hath created you in christ jesus unto holinesse and righteousnesse for ever : that to the praise of his grace which you are saved by : by which you have obtained the remission of sins , and an inheritance amongst them that are sanctified : so wait in the living hope , and the living faith , in which god is well pleased , in which you ask and receive of him , and are accepted of our heavenly father . and this faith ye know , which is a present power , and a shield against all temptations , and a helmet , and as a fortresse by which ye are preserved , safe standing in it , and putting it on in the day of triall . my dear brethren of the everlasting kindred , and heires of the everlasting promise : wait all in patience , having received an earnest of the inheritance that never fades away : to the end abide , in the fathers counsell , and at wisedomes gate . yee know what i say . i write not unto you , because you know not the truth , but because you know and are made free in your measures by him who is the truth and the way : in which all our fathers and you also have obtained a good report : even of all the houshold of faith : and take heed of the glory of the world , and look not at hardship : for verily all the suffering is not worthy to be compared to that glory which is revealed and to be revealed unto all that wait and abide in patience and faithfullnesse unto the end : but be yee as good souldiers , endure hardship , that you may receive the end of your hope , and the everlasting prise , and the purchased possession , and the crowne of glory which god will give unto you in his owne day : which is coming on towards you , if you continue in the hope , in the faith , and in the love unfained , which thinks no ill : by which and in which love we have victory over the grave , sin , and death : which he hath freely shed abroad in our hearts , unto whom be everlasting praise for ever and ever : to him which was dead , and is alive , and lives for evermore , the mediator of the new covenant of life and peace , in which we have accesse freely to the throne of grace , and are accepted in him who is the condemnation of all the world , who hate the light : but your life the light of the world god blessed for ever and ever . and all you fathers and elders and honourable women , who are not a few , whose bones and sinewes are filled with marrow and fatnesse ; who waite at the altar of the lord , and knovves the mercy-seat , vvhich hath overshadovved you ; and the golden vessell in vvhich is the hidden manna , by vvhich all the children of the lord are fed round the table of the lord , out of the everlasting treasure-house of my father . watch over the flock of christ jesus in every place , and region , and quarter vvhere the lord hath set you , and govern them in all vvisedome and righteousnesse , that the gospel of our lord jesus christ may be adorned : and take care of them vvillingly knovving this the lord requires of you , and hath called you unto : and to nourish the plants , and the young ones , and the babes : and that every one may knovv their place , and vvatch , and instruct in all vvisedome , and correct and reprove in the name and povver of our lord jesus , that no rebellious nor sloathfull may grovv up nor be harboured among you : but all in diligence may be kept in the fear of the lord in their places , that the gospel of christ jesus be not evill spoken of , nor the heathen blaspheme . and therefore my dear brethren be diligent in the vvork of the lord , so much the more as you see the day is approached : and the harvest is great , and the vineyard of the lord is great and large , and but fevv labourers : yea , the lord is enlarging his borders , and spreading forth his everlasting truth , and stretching forth his eternall arm over the nations , and opening the treasures of heaven , and bringing raine out of his treasury to vvater the earth that hath been parched and dry , and to make his plants to grovv . and so all vvait that you may see the povver and presence of the lord in all your assemblies : and see that there be no strife nor contention nor exaltation amongst you , but all in meeknesse , and quietnesse , and long-suffering , and forbearance : even as the lord hath spared and forborn you : one submitting unto another , even as you have heard and received vvhen the vvord of the lord came first unto you : and he that vvill be the greatest shall be the least : but all in meeknesse and lovvlinesse of mind serve one another , in love even as you have received : and the everlasting god of life and povver be vvith you all , and make you grovv in the living povver and virtue of god : to order all things in his vvisedome , as good stevvards of the manifold mercies of the lord , vvhich you are made partakers of : that he alone may be glorified throughout all the churches of christ jesus every vvhere . and to you my dear brethren and fellovv-labourers , unto vvhom the vvord of reconciliation is committed , and are in the vvork and ministry of our lord jesus christ , and are made partakers of the everlasting gospel of peace , vvhich unto you is given to declare . lift up your voyces , blow the ttumpet , sound an alarum out of the holy mountain : proclaime the acceptable year , and the day of vengeance of our god . gird on your sword upon your loines , put on the tried armour , and follow him for ever who rides upon the white horse , and is cloathed with the same : who makes war in righteousnesse : ride on , ride on , my beloved brethren and fellow souldiers , make all plain before you : thresh on with the new threshing instrument which hath teeth : beat the mountaines to dust , and let the breath of the lord scatter it : make the heathen tremble , and the uncircumcised fall by the sword : the lord of hosts is with us , and goes before us . spare none , neither ox nor asse , neither old nor young , kill , cut off , destroy , bath your sword in the blood of amaleck and all the aegyptians and philistins , and all the uncircumcised , and hew agag to pieces : break the rocks , cut down the cedars and strong oakes , make the devils subject : cast out the unclean spirits , raise the dead : shut up in prison , bring out of prison : cast in your nets , lanch into the deep , divide the fish , gather the good into vessels , cast the bad away : bind the tares in bundles , cast them into the fire : the angel with his sharp sickle is come , the angel of the everlasting covenant is come : thrust in your sickles , reape the earth , the word of god is come , that divides , let all flesh keep silence , divide the word rightly , feed the lambs and babes , fill the hungry , stop the lyons mouths : feed the fat and the strong with plagues and judgements : declare his name , publish his eternall truth which shall stand for ever . eternall life is come , glory to him for ever : silence all disputers and diviners for ever : trample upon all the chaff and dung , and mire for ever , which all the wisedome of the world feeds upon . greater is he that is in us , then he that is in the world . oh my beloved ones ! although i am the lowest and weakest among many of my brethren , yet the eternall power of god is my shield for ever , the lord of hosts is with us . there is a crown which none can take away , to all who have denyed all : yea , it is on your heads : the dread of god is with us : and truly dear brethren we cannot say that we fished and catched nothing , for many vessels are full : nor we have not travailed and laboured and brought forth wind , as the false prophets doe : for we have the seales of our ministry , which shall be witnesses for the lord in generations to come . not unto us o lord , but to thy name be glory for ever : who hath done and doth all for us , and in us : who is our strength , our glory , our crown of rejoycing all the day long ; for his hidden treasure is brought forth and made manifest in earthen vessels : unto him be eternall living praises for ever . and so all dear brethren , members of the same body of christ jesus , by which we are set free from sin in the liberty , life , and power in which you are made free , stand as vvitnesses for the lamb , and for the holy nation , for the royall seed of the true israel of god ▪ that it may be brought out of captivit● , to serve the lord in the land of the living , and the eternall god of povver and life , of endlesse rich love and mercy be vvith you all , and prosper his ovvne vvork in your hands , that he alone may be glorified : unto vvhom be eternall , infinite praises , vvho is our life , our king , god blessed for ever and ever . and to you all my dear brethren and sisters , vvho suffers in bonds , and prisons , and dens , and holes , and suffers the enemy to plovv long furrovves upon your backs , in patience ; and suffers stocking , vvhipping , buffetting , beating , and cruell mocking and stripes and chaines and fetters vvhom the world is not vvorthy of : even as they did unto our master of vvhom vve bear witnesse of , and hath the witnesse in our selves ; even so doe they unto us : but the servant is not greater then his lord , and therefore we that are baptized for the dead , and stand in jeopardy of our lives often , we have a cloud of witnesses which endured the same ; and therefore the same baptism and the same cup must be drunk by all that follow him . well my dear brethren ▪ your sufferings i know , and i know he of whom you bear witnesse , bears up your heads , who hath called you thereunto above all that which is done unto you , as you stand in his will and councel : well as dear brethren and companions in the same tribulation and kingdome and patience of the saints , as witnesses of the same faith as they were which are gone before you : you are made partakers of the same : it is made manifest and revealed in you by the same god : in which faith they had power , and you have power , and indures as they did , and as he did , even the contradiction of sinners . well , our god is on our side , and takes our part , and therefore my own bowels in patience endure , god will bring forth your righteousnesse as the sun , and your enemies shall be ashamed : and i know and you also know it is for the advantage and the furtherance of the gospel of christ : and endure in patience and long-suffering , and look not out : and the lord in due time will enlarge your border , and the eternall god of power be with you chosen ones , for the lords work you shall have your reward : nay , he is come , and his reward is with him : i know you have it , and witnesse his power and his presence with you : so my dear ones , in that which limits all , and chaines all , and keeps under all deceit , dwell and abide for ever in the living power which makes the strong man bow downe , and the devils tremble , and the unclean spirits roare : and the power you know , where is your life , that all the powers of death cannot reach : and therefore doth the potsheards of the earth strive in vaine to set briars and thorns in battel against him , in vaine doe they rage : for notwithstanding all that , god hath set and will set his owne son upon the holy hill of sion : glory unto him for ever , shout out for joy oh yee sufferers for him , who are set free by him , and your freedome can none take away : for he is greater then all , even him in whom yee have believed , standing in his power , wisedome and councel , who is neer you , that none is able to pluck you out of his hand : for he hath the keyes of david , who opens and none ▪ shuts , and binds and none can loose : even he who rebukes the winds and seas ▪ and they obey him , and causes a great calme : and causes the waters to abate , nay to stand of a heap : and dryes up the tongue of the aegyptian sea ▪ that his ransomed ones may goe over into the rest : and he that hath and doth believe in him , is entred into the rest : where we all meet in one , in him who is the judge of all the world : the light of the world , and our life who believe in his name : but the condemnation of all the world ▪ who walk in unrighteousnesse for ever and ever . for with the pure and upright he dwells ▪ and his throne is established in righteousnesse for ever and ever : and unto our god who lives for ever , shall all the powers of the earth bow : to whom be glory and eternall praise of all his redeemed ones for ever and ever . f. h. o all yee sons of sion , and yee daughters of the king , who is glorious within , who is glorious within , who have waited for the bridegroom : oh my beloved ones , you who have long sitten in a solitary place , and have been as a silly dove without a heart , and hath been as a widow desolate , and as a parched heath : you that hath wandred up and downe in the long night of darknesse and knew no rest , but were as one cast off by all , and all that passed by you laughed at your sorrow : you have been as a hissing , and as a proverb to all , and as a mark to shoot at by all ; your faces have been as the tents of kedar parched , and your skin withered for want of refreshment , and as a dead tree that bears no fruit . oh yee who have come through great tribulation , and have suffered the losse of all , the spoyling of all , even the greatest riches , the chiefest jewels : who have lost all your knowledge and wisedome , and become fooles for christs sake ; and hath parted with all , and hath suffered the indignation of the lord to passe over all , and hath drunk of the cup of fury at the hand of the lord , who have suffered hunger , famine , pestilence , and earthquakes , and the darkening of the sun , and the moon lost her light , and the stars have fallen , and the pillars of heaven hath been shaken : the earth hath been removed out of its place as a cottage , and you have cryed out in the midst of all this , he hath forgotten to be gracious , and is his mercy come to an end ? the womb hath been shut up , desolation and sorrow , losse of children and widowhood in a day , came upon you . oh yee tossed , afflicted , and not comforted , that have been as eunuchs , dry and barren as in the drought of summer , that have been as pelicanes and as doves , who have sorrowed for the losse of her mate , and as one in sorrow for the losse of her first born : who have been in bitternesse , and none could comfort you : i am one with you ▪ your state i know , i love you eternally : yea , yee are my brethren and sisters for ever , sealed in my heart , and engraven to be read for ever . i see you , i behold you , i kisse you , and embrace you with an holy kisse of everlasting love , which overcomes death and hell , which love thinks no ill : yee that are made partakers of this love , knowes what i say : yee that have waited for him , and wait and suffer the spoyling of all , i am married unto you , i came forth of the same womb , which is eternity free for ever : free borne , not in bondage , because the prince of this world is judged and cast out , and the glory of the lord revealed . come forth yee sonnes and daughters of jerusalem which is free from above : utter forth your voyce , sing aloud , the bridegroome is come and is coming , and yee that have suffered the spoyling of all rejoyce for evermore : lift up your voyces as trumpets , he is come , he is covered with righteousnesse as with a robe , his countenance is as the morning , his eyes is brighter then the sun , his voyce is life eternall , salvation is round about him : he dwells in eternall life : life is in his right hand and joy is in his presence , and peace for evermore : he is a tryed stone , he is a rock which the righteous flyes to , he hides his under his wings , and covers them with his feathers . beauty beauty , glory glory , eternity eternity , almightiness almightiness , power , riches , honour ▪ dignity and dominion , strength , wisedome and goodnesse , fullnesse , satisfaction , eternall treasure , durable riches , infinitnesse , is his name for ever : unexpressible i am filled with his love and power : he opens the windowes of heaven , he raines his showres as silver drops and as fine myrrhe , as sweet odours : he nourishes the young , he carries the lambs in his arms of love : he drives gently them that are with young : he is true and faithfull for ever : he keeps covenant : he is long-suffering and kind : who can declare his power ? i am lost in the incomprehensible being of eternall love . oh my dear ones , come up hither , fellow citizens of jerusalem which is from above , who is our mother , which few know but you who are written in the lambs book of life : found forth his praise , trumpet forth his power , declare his name among the people , that it may sound into the eares of generations to come , this is he we have waited for , this is he who hath begotten us to himself to raign with him the lamb upon mount sion ▪ as kings and priests , and judges of the prince of darknesse , death and hell for ever , salvation , honour and glory be to him for ever : eternall infinite praises , praises to him for ever who was dead and is alive , and lives for evermore : king of kings for ever : majesty glory and power and eternall renown is in his right hand for ever : his redeemed ones lives for ever , dwells followes lives in him for ever : no beast can touch the mountaine where he dwells , but he dyes for ever . come away my beloved ones , drink abundantly and be refreshed , and praise his name for ever , eternally i am shed and spilt among you never so as now never to be separated out of the eternall onenesse : sound forth his praise ▪ declare his word , let it to goe forth as thunder , let the heathen bow , let the princes of this world fall , and the kings worship at his feet for ever : let the disputers tongue cleave to the roof of his mouth for ever : let all flesh keep silence for ever . babylon is fallen , and become the habitation of devills for ever : the judge of all the world hath confounded and cursed her language for ever : god is risen and sits upon his throne , eternall wisedome is come , and the ancient of dayes all carnall shall be confounded : stop all mouths in the dust for ever , eternity shall speak and judge for ever : whom he binds is bound for ever , whom he looseth he looseth for ever : whom he remits are remitted , the devil is chained , the grave gives up her dead , and the sea and hell , all is judged by him that lives for ever . o beloved ones , who are the children of my eternall father , who have eaten at his table , and drunken of the new wine in the kingdome of god , who are nourished and dandled upon the lap of everlasting love , who suck at the breasts of everlasting consolation : your beauty is comely , i am ravished , i am filled , i am filled with love to you all , i am sick of love : your beauty hath ravished my heart : come sit down my dear ▪ lambs together in the fold where no wolf can come , and let us rejoyce together , and sound forth his praise who hath washed us and cleansed us and covered us , and made us worthy to enter into the fold the bride-chamber , to eat with him of the bread of life for ever , at the eternall table of life : the bridegroom is come friends , of him i know you rejoyce greatly , because of his voyce . and now my dearly beloved ones , follow him for evermore in the eternall light and life where we were bred brought forth and nourished , and are unknown to all the world : but me you know , and i know you in one who is the condemnation of the world , and in him i meet you , and leave you in his arms , i lye down with you in the bosome of eternall love , life , peace , joy and rest for ever , where none can make us afraid . bandon in irela : the month , . my name yee know , my voyce yee know , this is to all my beloved brethren who are redeemed from the earth . francis howgill . to the camp of the lord in england to all you called , chosen , elected and beloved of the lord , who are of the true circumcision made without hands , of the seed of abraham : who are jewes indeed not after the flesh but in the spirit : unto whom belongs the everlasting promise and covenant , whom god hath and is fulfilling in you , so establishing with you : we your fellow-citieens of the heavenly jerusalem which is the mother of us all : and of the same body , and of the same seed , and same birth , begotten and brought forth by the immortall word of life which lives for ever , doe send greeting , and doe embrace you in the arms of our beloved , who is and is to come god blessed for ever : you who are called quakers : who are so not onely in word nor in shew , but in life and in power : whom god hath called and chosen to place his name in , and to take up his habitation among : above all the families of the earth the tabernacle of god is with you , and his dwelling-place is among you , and only among you is god known , and his name is great in your assemblies . we who are of the same root and off-spring , doth bring in our witnesse , and doth set to our seale ▪ that god of a truth is with you and among you : and he is the god of the living that answers by fire : he is i am , and there is none besides him : the first and the last , the beginning and the end of all things . praise him for ever yee redeemed of him : lift up your heads your redeemer is come : clap your hands and shout for joy , and let the everlasting praises of god be in your mouths for ever and ever . exalt ye his name above all gods , and glorifie him in the sight of all the heathen , and let his marvellous works stand upon record from generation to generation . wonderfull hath his work been among you , and that my soule knowes right well : you that were scattered in the cloudy and dark day , and were a prey for the wild beasts of the forrest , and were driven away as lost sheep in the wildernesse , hath god gathered into the fould , to lay down by the springs of living water in fat pastures for evermore . your bread is sure , and your waters never failes : a feast of fat things is made unto you , of wines well refined : the lord is become the lot of your inheritance , and the portion of your cup for ever . your crowns have you laid down at the feet of the lamb : and your lives and liberties have not been dear unto you : and let this never repent you , for now the lord will exalt you and crown you with immortall glory . the everlasting day-star is risen among you , which gives light unto the nations : and the light of the sun is as the light of seven dayes : and there is no need of a candle in your dwelling , but the lamb is the light thereof ; faire as the sun , and clear as the moon : yea it is he which was dead , and is alive , and behold he lives for evermore . praise him all ye people , praise ye him ye holy host , let all that hath breath praise him for ever . who can expresse his noble acts ? and who can declare his wondrous works ? oh my soule is ravished , and my heart is overcome , let me speak that i may be refreshed , and let me declare his wonders among all people . the lord is our king , our judge , and our law-giver , and our rock of defence ; just is he in his judgements , who hath avenged us of our enemies : mercy and judgement meet , righteousnesse and peace doth embrace each other . rejoyce for evermore ye saints of the most high , and tell it to your children , that they may tell it to another generation , what hath the lord wrought among you , and what hath his hand brought to passe . salvation is come , and plenteous redemption , and the dead hath heard the voyce of the son of god and liveth . let sorrow and mourning fly away , and be ye comforted ye that have mourned , and be ye refreshed ye that have been weary ; for god hath opened the everlasting fountain , and the streams runs pleasantly , which refresheth the city of our god . he is come and his reward is with him , even he for whom we have waited ; this is he who is our life , our peace and our exceeding great reward ; the light of the world our saviour , but the worlds condemner , our peace but the worlds torment : glad tidings , glad tidings , the acceptable year is come : praise ye the lord ye sons and daughters of sion , beautifull is your dwelling place , and aboundeth with pleasant fruit , for you are digged and pruned and enclosed a garden of lovely branches : let the wonders of the lord never be forgotten , nor his works never passe out of your remembrance , for he hath wounded and healed , killed and made alive , raised the dead and slain the living , brought out of captivity and bound with chaines , gathered and scattered , brought low and exalted , saved and condemned , all this hath your eye seen , and your ear heard : and the heavens and the earth hath been burned as a scroule , and the indignation of the lord you have born : but the winter is past , and the summer is come , and the turtle dove , and the singing of birds is heard in our land . o magnifie his name for ever ; you are made vessels of honour , wherein the everlasting treasure abideth , which never waxeth old : the voyce of the bridegroom is heard among you , and how can you have any more sorrow : instead of weeping rejoycing , and instead of heavinesse of heart fullnesse of everlasting joy : the lord hath fulfilled his promise , and made good his word , and his law and covenant is with you : and from you doth the law goe forth , and the powerfull word of life , and death soundeth out of your dwellings , and you are gods only witnesses to testifie of him in the presence of all nations , some of you by suffering , and some by declaring : oh endlesse love , and life , and riches , an eternall crown is upon your heads , and your suffering ( which hath not been a little ) is not worthy to be compared with the glory that is and shall be revealed . i speak to you who hath an ear to hear , my soule and heart is comforted in you , in the midst of my burdens and sufferings , who is separated from you outwardly , yet joyned and united to you by the spirit which is unlimited , which all nations doth comprehend : yea i behold your beauty afar off , and my heart is ravished with it , and i am sick of love : let his works praise him for ever , which he hath wrought , for his dwelling is with you , in the light unto which no mortall eye can approach . the new jerusalem is come down from heaven , and no unclean can enter : but you are made white with the blood of the lamb , and purged as silver , and purified as gold in the burning and unto you an entrance is given , and the way is prepared , and the marriage of the lamb is come , and his wife hath made her self ready , and the way of the lord is pleasant to you , and his commands are not grievous : no unclean thing can passe over , ● or no lyons whelps can tread therein , but it is called the way of holinesse ▪ where only the ransomed of the lord doe walk ; even your mountain is established upon the top of all hills , and all nations shall flow unto it ▪ sing praises for ever , for the kingdome of endlesse peace is come , which passeth understanding , and of glory which no mortall eye can behold , and of life which no flesh can live in . oh my beloved ▪ come up hither and i will shew you what god hath done for you , he hath rebuked the sea , and driven back the floods of waters which compassed you about , and he hath scattered your enemies with a whirlwind , and he hath given you to feed upon the flesh of kings and of captaines . can you call to mind the doings of your god , and his marvellous works brought to passe , and not cry out in praises for evermore ? o drink and be refreshed , and eat and be satisfied for ever , and let your soul delight it self in fatnesse ; the planting of the lord you are , and his own purchased possession , he hath separated you from the womb , and hath called you out of kindreds , and ye are the royall seed , of the off-spring of the lord almighty , and all nations shall call you blessed . and o thou north of england , who art counted as desolate and barren , and reckoned the least of the nation , yet out of thee did the branch spring , and the star arise which gives light unto all the regions round about ; in thee the son of righteousnesse appeared with wounding and with healing : and out of thee the terror of the lord proceeded , which makes the earth to tremble , and be removed : out of thee kings , princes , and prophets did come forth in the name and power of the most high , which uttered their voyces as thunders , and laid their swords on the neck of their enemies , and never returned empty from the slaughter . though i be as by the waters of babylon , in a strange land ; and as a pilgrim and stranger destitute but not forsaken ; as dying but behold i live : yet if i forget thee let my right hand forget her cunning , and let my name be blotted out of the book of life . o how i love the holy seed which in my eye is precious ! no man can hinder my boasting of thee , for i am sealed among you in the record of eternall life , to be read among you in the light where i am known to you , and where my unity stands with you in the love and life which never changes , and you are my mother and my brother and sister who doth the will of my father . our god is a consuming fire , and his habitation is compast about with dread and terror . the heathen shall see and fear , and the inhabitants of the earth shall tremble : our god is everlasting burnings , and it is tempestuous round about his throne , and he raignes for evermore : and though thou be despised and set at naught , and counted as the off-scouring of all things , and the scorn of the heathen , yet thy king raignes upon mount sion , and if he utter his voyce all flesh shall tremble , and before him thy adversaries shall fall , and thy persecutors shall be confounded , for thou shalt never be forgotten of thy god , but with his arm will he defend thee , and compasse thee about , and thy seed shall be encreased , and thou jerusalem shalt be made the praise of the whole earth , for among you is laid the sure foundation , and the tryed stone , christ jesus the light of the world , upon whom you have believed , which unto the nations is a stumbling-stone , but unto you precious : bring in your testimony , and set to your seale , is there salvation in any other , but in him who is the light of the world , nay there is no redemption wrought but by him , nor no deliverance but through him : his is the kingdome , the power , and the glory , and he is become all in all ; and you are no more of this world , but are of the chosen generation , and of the royall priesthood , a people redeemed , unto whom there is none like among the thousands of israel and judah , whose god is the lord , whose saviour is the prince of righteousnesse , who covers your heads in the day of battel , and smites your enemies in the hinder parts , and wounds them in the forehead . and now my beloved , let his name be had in remembrance for evermore , and let his praises ▪ be declared throughout ages to come , and walk you worthy of his everlasting love , wherewith he hath loved you more then your brethren : let his name be exalted by righteousnesse , by purity , and by a blamelesse life , and bring forth the fruits of righteousnesse and peace , and let your light shine forth into the world , and your good works abound plentifully , for you are as a city set on a hill , and as a lighted candle to shine abroad , and are created unto good works . let faith , hope , love and unity be encreased among you , and let mercy and judgement and equity flow down , and be establisht for ever , never to be removed . let joy and long-suffering and meeknesse and temperance spring out , and be you perfect as your heavenly father is perfect . stand upon your watch tower , and be not shaken nor drawn aside to follow any other gods , nor to bow to any other image , nor joyn your selves to strangers , and mingle not your seed with the adulterous generation , nor take not nor give not in marriage with them ; but keep your selves from the idols of the heathen , be not defiled with them ; but abide in your strength , you know where it lyes , by which you may work good , and be preserved from evill ; and you need not that any man teach you , for you are taught of god , and are far from oppression . ye children of light , worship your god for ever , who is light , and in whom is no darknesse at all , who is the same and changes not , whose mercy endures for ever : be followers of the lamb as undefiled virgins , and let your soule scorn the glory of babylon , and aegypt for ever ; for you are not your own , but are bought with a price , no more to serve your selves , but the lord god of israel for ever . put on your armour , and gird on your sword , and lay hold on the spear , and march into the field , and prepare your selves to battel , for the nations doth defie our god , and saith in their hearts who is the god of the quakers ▪ that we should fear him , and obey his voyce ? arise , arise , and sound forth the everlasting word of war and judgment in the ears of all the nations , sound an alarum , and make their ears to tingle . our enemies are whole nations , and multitudes in number , of a rebellious people that will not come under our law , which ariseth up against us , and will not have our king to raigne , but tramples his honour under foot , and dispises his law and his ●tatutes , and counteth his subjects as slaves and bondmen . stand upon your feet , and appear in your terror as an army with banners , and let the nations know your power , and the stroke of your hand : cut down on the right hand , and slay on the left , and let not your eye pitty ▪ nor your hand spare , but wound the lofty , and tread under foot the honourable of the earth , and give unto the great whore double , and give her no rest day nor night , but as she hath done , so let it be done unto her ; and give her double into her bosome : as she hath loved blood , so give her blood , and dash her children against the stones , and let none of the heathen nations , nor their gods escape out of your hands , nor their images nor idols , but lay wast the fenced cities , and tread down the high walls , for we have proclaimed open war betwixt michael our prince , and the dragon . your captains are mighty men , and your leaders are skilled to handle the sword , and they are riding on before you . arise worm jacob , and fear not , but thresh the mountaines to dust , for god hath given thee the power of thy enemies to tread upon , and they shall fly before thee , and shall fall by thy sword , there is none too strong for thee , nor no inchantment against thee ; but thou art blessed , blessed world without end : therefore all ye lambs of my father , and ye camp of the lords host , wait upon him to fulfill his will , for he hath put it into your hearts to make war in righteousness against the beast and the false prophet , and cursed be every one that riseth not up to the help of the lord against the mighty : the beast is mighty , and the false prophet is great , and they keep the nations under their power : but o thou beast , and thou false prophet , you shall be tormented together : thou beast upon which the false prophet sits , whom thou upholds by thy law , and defends by thy unrighteous power ; thy power is limited , and it shall be taken from thee , and thou shalt be overcome , and the lamb shall get the victory , and into the pit and lake of fire shall you be turned to have your resting-place . and thou false prophet , which hath deceived the nations , and scattered the inhabitants thereof , and builded by fraud , and daubed with untempered morter , thy judgement is past upon thy head already , and the decree of our god is sealed against thee ; thy smoke shall ascend for ever and ever ; and of thy sin there is no forgivenesse , nor of thy torment no remission . over you doe we and shall for ever rejoyce and sing , and over your god and your king , the dragon that old serpent ; cursed be he and his memoriall for ever . ye lambs of the true shepheards fold , with whom my soule resteth , whether ever i behold you outwardly , yet my heart is with you , and i am one of your fold , and i lye down with you under the shadow of the rock , upon the mountain which the beast cannot touch , where we are safe from all our enemies , and am to you well known , to be read in your hearts , in the record of the lambs book of life , and known only to the world by the name of edward burrough . written at dublin city in ireland . to the camp of the lord in england . london : printed for thomas simmons , at the signe of the bull and mouth near aldersgate . . finis . a briefe answer unto a book intituled shetinah, or, a demonstration of the divine presence in places of religious worship published by iohn stillingfleet, who stiles himself m.a. rector of beckingham in lincoln-shire, and late fellow of st. iohns colledge in cambridge. in which book he hath declared many perverse things against the people of god (called quakers,) and for so much as is considerable, wherein that people are any way concerned, it is in the power of god here answered, by one who is set for the defence of the gospel, william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a briefe answer unto a book intituled shetinah, or, a demonstration of the divine presence in places of religious worship published by iohn stillingfleet, who stiles himself m.a. rector of beckingham in lincoln-shire, and late fellow of st. iohns colledge in cambridge. in which book he hath declared many perverse things against the people of god (called quakers,) and for so much as is considerable, wherein that people are any way concerned, it is in the power of god here answered, by one who is set for the defence of the gospel, william smith. smith, william, d. . p. s.n.], [london? : printed in the year, . place of publication conjectured by wing. errata at foot of p. . page has page number printed upside down. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding 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later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, john, or - . -- shecinah, or, a demonstration of the divine presence in the places of religious worship -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a briefe answer unto a book intituled shetinah , or , a demonstration of the divine presence in places of religious worship ; published by iohn stillingfleet , who stiles himself m. a. rector of beckingham in lincoln-shire , and late fellow of st. iohns colledge in cambridge . in which book he hath declared many perverse things against the people of god ( called quakers , ) and for so much as is considerable , wherein that people are any way concerned , it is in the power of god here answered , by one who is set for the defence of the gospel , william smith . but the wicked are like the troubled sea when it cannot rest , whose waves cast up mire and dirt , isai . . . printed in the year , . to the reader ▪ reader , it is my love to gods precious truth and people , that doth engage me to this undertaking , for i am not a man of strife , though at this time constrained to make a just defence against the force of an open enemy : and though the battel hath been long , and enemies many , that hath appeared against us , & that the answers which hath been given to several opposers might be sufficient on our behalf , yet seeing that they still rise up against us in open view , we have stre●gth in the lord to fight the good fight of faith , for the trutb of god hath ever met with many and great oppositions in every manifestation through all ages , and it hath alwaies been opposed as errour and delusion , and such as have lived in it as hereticks and seducers , and so the truth not being known as it is , it hath been censured by strangers to be the greatest delusion , who in darknesse and blindnesse hath alwaies oppressed and persecuted the birth born of it , and so it is at this day , as by the great opposition , oppression , and persecution of those that live in it , doth clearly manifest ; and whereas john stillingfleet hath endeavoured to cloud the sun in a clear day , yet his darknesse cannot remain upon the glorious truth , but with the light and power of god is removed as airy vapours , therefore reader be equal in thy judgement , and let gods witnesse determine the matter , and though many answers be but short , yet if thou reads with that of god in thee , thou wilt find them full to the matter stated , and if thou by diligent reading reap any profit to thy soul , the end of my labour will be answered , who am a lover of all souls . w. s. reader , thou maist take notice that john stillingfleet's book was answered more at large in the . moneth , . but through miscarriage at the presse , some part of it was lost , and the remaining part is but lately come to my hands , which is the reason that this came no sooner to view . given forth the second time in the . moneth , . a brief answer , &c. iohn stillingfleet , i shall collect some heads out of thy book , wherein the truth and people of god are most concerned , and briefly answer them . thou hast directed an epistle to one whom thou calls right honourable anthony lord ashbie , one of his ma●esties most honourable privy counsel , and thou acknowledges his goodnesse and favours , and upon such considerations thou sayest , thou prostrates the treatise of thy book at his honours feet , not with any hopes to equallize his worth , or merit his patronage with so slender an essay as it is . answ . such gratuities for favours , manifest but little kindnesse , and if well considered , will not be found worthy of any acceptation ; for it being a treatise against the truth and people of god , it is not to be received or entertained as a seasonable gift , and being but a slendour essay , it is in the lowest and weakest manner offered in thy own way , and so altogether unworthy of reception by him , at whose feet thou hast prostrated it . thou sayest , the majestick shetinah , and the divine presence in gospel worship fills both pages of thy ensuing discourse . answ . the majesty and glory of god is in himself , and cannot be engraven or printed in pages , and as for thy matter with which thou hast filled thy pages , it doth not savour of the divine presence , as presently will appear , but thy pages are filled with thy own conceptions , and thou offers them as divine truths . thou sayest , all thy ambition is , by this slender essay , to act the part of socrates his staffe . answ . socrates staffe , and the divine presence is not alike , and thou hast soon forgotten that thou said thy pages were filled with the div●ne presence , but it is here manifested what thou fills them withall , and what thy essay tendeth to , and what thy ambition is to act , which indeed is more like a heathen then a christian . thou sayest , too too many want such a staffe to correct them for their errours , and that the ministers of the gospel are looked upon as the pursivants of the great whore of babylon , and are set at open defiance . answ . would thou be correcting errour with thy staffe before thou hast shewed what errour is , and who they are that live in it , and did ever gospel ministers correct errours with a staffe , though too too many have lived in manifest errours , and if errours be so to be corrected , then i am sure the staffe would fall to thy own share , who calls truth errour , and would be correcting it with a staffe , which manifests that thou art a pursivant of the great whore indeed , and we cannot but pity thee , though we set thy staffe at open defiance , but gospel ministers are owned and honoured , and that in love unfeigned . thou sayest , the spirit of life , the light within , the everlasting word , the everlasting gospel , are the choice rarieties that will rellish only in the curious pal●ates of our quakers , and in the mean time , thou sayest the church of god lyes destitute and forlorn . answ . yes , these are the things indeed which is choice food unto us , and therein we rellish the sweetnesse of the heavenly virtue , by which our souls are abundantly refreshed , and this is our wine and milk without money or price , and therefore we cannot buy and trade with thee , and can the church of god lye destitute where these things are loved , and wouldst thou be accounted a gospel minister , and would not have people to love and feed upon the everlasting word , and the everlasting gospel . what gospel dost thou preach if it be not everlasting , but with the light of the gospel thou art comprehended , and art found out of the spirit of life , and light within , and so thou preachest thy own words , and not the word everlasting . thou sayest , they cry down all stipends of preachers as the hire of the great whore of babylon , and the legal maintenance by tithes as an introduction to antichristianisme . answ . yes , we do so , for the whore hath set them up , and they are nourished in her lap , and we say that legal maintenance by tithes are not only an introduction to antichristianism , but is practised in antichrists kingdome , and wouldst thou be a gospel minister , and art pleading for stipends and tithes , thy doctrine demonstrates thy principle , and thy practice doth manifest that christ never sent thee , for none of his ministers ever took stipends or tithes for their labour in the gospel : and therefore thou art found out of their way and practice , for which cause thy ministry is denied . thou also hast directed a preface to the reader , wherein thou sayest , the main scope and design of thy present undertaking is to vindicate the publick worship of god , and his sacred ordinances from that undervaluing contempt which hath been thrown upon them by quakers , &c. answ . thy scope , and design , and undertaking is for desolution , and as for the quakers , they n●ither undervalue nor contemn the publick worship of god nor his sacred ordinances , for they have not so learned christ ; but thy undertaking is to vindicate those things which god hath not appointed nor ordained , and such things we do deny , but we worship god in the spirit , which is the publick worship , for it is without limitation , and it is thy worship which is private , who creeps into a house made with hands , and wouldst limit the holy one unto it to be worshipped ; and thus thou ravines about in thy own way , and calls evil good , and undertakes to vindicate it . thou sayest , hereticks are the greater foxes , and the lesser foxes , and hunting and taking of such are not only a noble recreation ( adaequate ) indeed for the vast ability of the most generously spirited christians , but also a very charitable undertaking for the church of god in those that can but any way help forward so serviceable a design . answ . thou thirsts to have thy design promoted , and so presents it to others as a noble recreation , and a charitable undertaking for christians , but true christians did never recreate themselves after that manner , nor never were found in such an undertaking , for paul saith , after some admonitions a heretick is to be rejected , if he refuse to hear , but he doth not say hunt them , and take them , and destroy them , and paul was a good christian , but thou art promoting thy design against the innocent , and under the name of foxes would have them hunted and taken , by which it is seen what is in thy heart , if thy hands had power , for it is to be understood , that a lamb never hunted a fox , but it is the nature of a fox to hunt the lambs , and if he can come to his prey he devours and destroyes them , and a fox hath his hole for the day , and ravines in the night ( mark that ) and that is the hunter and devourer which is thy secret design , but thou art chained , and the lambs preserved . thou saist , where could we find the proverb more fully verefied then in the subtil deluding schismaticks of our age , and for bloudy cruelty can we find a parallel of these where they get power , and is it not high time , saist thou , to endeavour the reclaiming and reformation of those whose main intendment is , to ruine the church of god , and deny the precious truths and ordinances of the gospel . answ . these ●hings are certainly thy own , and it is high time for thee to reclaim and reform thy unruly spirit , which is found in the highest degree of enmity and cruelty , which the quakers were never guilty of , for their principle leads them in love and peace , and good will to all men , and that line doth not parallel with bloud-thirsty men , who are destroying one another , about their worships and religion , and it is high time that such were reclaimed and reformed from their iniquity , of which the quakers were never guilty . thou faist , the wolves were destroyed out of the land by a victorious prince ; oh ! saist thou , that we could see the like deliverance from the foxes . answ . here the bottome of the pit is come up , and a murderer is seen , which would destroy the innocent as foxes , and would have the help of a prince to do it , by which thou shewest the nature of a wolf , and the land is spread over with too many such as thou art , that the lambs can hardly find an outward place to lie down quietly amongst you . thou saist , for iustice , that puts thee upon looking well about thee at home , since in that little spot of ground divine providence and goodnesse hath called thee to be resident upon in the work and calling of a minister of the gospel , thou hast found many , even too many , saist thou , of these little foxes to have their fixed abode , being sadly perverted by the grosse and strong delusions of the quakers . answ . thou hast already manifested thy justice , and it is seen to be in the enmity and thy residence in that place , as a gospel minister was never so ordered by gods providence and goodnesse , but a great living called thee , and in it man hath placed thee , and it is for thy gain that thou looks so well about thee , and if such as thou calls foxes could put into thy mouth willingly , as thou takes it from them unlawfully , then it is like thou wouldst blot out the name of foxes , and give them the name of christians ; and in this stands thy justice , to feed upon the fat , and to live at ease in thy residence , and for such whose fixed abode is there , whom thou calls foxes , they was converted to the faith of christ before thou came to be resident amongst them , and it is the truth of god which they have received , by which they are turned from errour and delusions , and their fixed abode is their natural right , and they are a people whom i very well know , and i know that they live peaceably & soberly , and are of an honest conversation , and thou hast nothing against them justly , saving this one thing , that they worship the god of their fathers , after the manner which thou calls heresie . thou saist , they are hurried to a high degree of contempt of publick prayers , preaching , sacraments , &c. and these by right , saist thou , are part of my charge , though they have withdrawn themselves from being any part of my flock . answ . they are established in the truth , and publick prayer , and preaching in the spirit of god they never denied , and they are not by right any part of thy charge , for since thy coming among them they have denied thy practice , and therefore they are not withdrawn from thee , for they never belonged unto thee , and if it should be granted , that some of them were part of thy charge , and of thy flock , then hast not thou been a carelesse shepherd to let thy flock goe astray and be lost , how canst thou say , if it be so , that thou hast kept all thy flock together , which is the care of a good shepherd ? thou saist , to attempt the best means , and to use the most likely wayes and method for their recovery , seems not onely truly charitable , but highly just , and equitable . answ . thy attempts and means are far unlikely to recover them , if they was in errour , for thou attempts to be delivered from them and destroy them , and so thy words are wind and confusion , first crying out for help to be de●ive●ed from them , & then saying thou attempts the best means to recover them , but that which a man seeks to be delivered from ▪ he ●o●h not attempt to recover and regain , and so thy justice , charity and equity , stands in the ground of enmity . thou saist , considering therefore how industri●●● the little foxes are , and how studiously diligent seducers all along hath been , by continual prating in their canting language , and by publishing unintelligible fancies , out of a deep sense of that dangerous and ruinous course , many sayest thou , not only in my own parish , but throughout the whole nation are seduced into , have i adventured the publication of this small treatise , as an antidote , through gods blessing , against that corroding and spreading gangreen of heretical and diabolical delusion . answ . an industrious christian is commendable , and to be diligent in that which is good , is worthy of encouragement , and herein we labour in the work of the gospel , and we speak in an intelligible language to that of god in all , and here thou hast uttered confusion again , first saying , they are deluded , and then saying the language is unintelligible , and so it is plain that thou understands not our principle , for nothing can be understood but by true intelligence , and though thou understand it not , but in thy ignorance calls it delusion , yet we know that it is the truth of god , and spreads abroad ro the glory of god , and the comfort of many souls , and by it the serpents poison is expelled out the heart , but thy antidote is unwholesom and unsavoury , and where it is received , it will infect with deadly poison . thou sayest , what remains , shall be only to implore an effectual blessing from heaven upon these weak endeavours of mine , that they may promote piety , prevent apostasie , raise th●se that are fallen , confirm those that stand upright in the wayes of god , and contribute somewhat or other to the furtherance of souls in their progresse towards the new jerusalem . answ . god blesseth his own seed , and it is blessed for ever , but the breath of his mouth blasts thy endeavours , for thy voice is in the apostasi● and 〈◊〉 thou labours to prevent people for coming out of the apo●●a●●● , and to keep them in the fall , where none can stand upright in the wayes of god , and thy endeavours are weak indeed to promote piety , but strong in subtilty , to pervert the right way of god , if it was possible , and so thou art not a furtherer of souls towards the new jerusalem , but keeps them 〈◊〉 jerusalem below , where they are in bondage . thou hast divided thy books into fourteen chapters , which would enlarge a volume to answer every particular matter , for thou hast drawn such long discourses touching one and the same thing , that by answering one part may fully answer the whole . the first part of thy book is generally composed philosophically , and though thou hast stated their sayings hiddenly , and so would passe them for thy own , yet i well know their language , and with the light of christ can see a thief at midnight . in the first chapter thou states two things more generally , self-reflection , and divine revelation , and thou sayest , mans rational reflection upon himself , if faithfully improved , would with convincing evidence secure him both against atheism and irreligion . answ . this is a false assertion , for as people lies in the fall they neither know god , nor believe in him , and however they may improve any rational faculty , yet they cannot thereby work their own security , for it is not possible that man should secure himself by any thing of himself , or that he should know god , and believe in him from such a principle , for it is self that sinneth , and that which sinneth doth never reflect upon a man for sin , but all such reflections are by the principle of god , in which there is no sin , and thereby man comes to see himse●f in the fall , and if that principle be faithfully improved , it will redeem out of atheisme and irreligion , and bring to christ jesus the sure foundation of the pure religion . thou sayest , that self-reflection may easily discover that there is a god. answ . this is false again , for none knows the father but the son , and he to whom the son reveals him , and thou not knowing by what way god discovers himself , thou art not fit either to speak or write of him . thou sayest , if the soul be immaterial , it cannot be generated or made by any material production , it remains , sayest thou , it must have its being immediately raised out of nothing . answ . no supposition is a good ground for a conclusion , and thou first sayest , if the soul be immaterial , by which supposition it is manifest that thou hast no certain knowledge what the soul is , and yet thou draws a conclusion , saying , it must have its being immediately raised out of nothing , so that by what thou hast declared concerning the discovery of god , and the production of the soul , it is evident that thou art a stranger to the things of god , for god is the chiefest good , and the onely fountain from whence all good things are produced , and man became a living soul by the breath of his life , not immediately raised out of nothing , but breathed from the nature of life and immortality , and this might fully answer all thy book . thou saist , the chief matter is gods omnipotencie , and immensity , or omnipresence , and bids consider these jointly , so they are a sollid foundation , saist thou , for that religious worship that is due to god. answ . neither thy imaginations nor stoln words will make a sollid foundation for that religious worship that is due to god , but his own foundation is sure , and the true worshippers are built upon it , and his almighty power and presence is with them and they bow before him . thou saist , if we do again consider the manner of discoveries of these two forementioned attributes ( viz. ) that it is by the very light of nature , and by the improvement of right reason , and understanding that common benefit , that christ enlightens every man that comes into the world , and thou margins the name quakers , and saith , this may let that fond generation of people know , who are so highly enamoored with , and do so superficially dote upon their so much adorned and adored notion of a light within , that there is other work that god hath designed that inward light for them by its native strength , lustre , and radiancie , infallibly to guide us , if faithfully followed , as they , no lesse , saist thou , prophanely then ignorantly do imagine , to the place of bliss and happinesse . answ . thou art proved to want the knowledge of god and his attributes , and so art improving thy own wisdome against him , and by the discovery thou makes of the light of christ , that enlightens every one that comes into the world , and it doth appear that thou remains in darknesse , and thou should have distinguished , if thou could , between the nature of man in the fall , and the nature of christ that never fell , for we own the light which is manifest from the nature of christ to be the true light which enlightens every one that comes into the world , but they that rebell against it , can never come to the place of blis● and happinesse by it , but we are in love with it , and knows the work which god hath designed for it , which is to destroy the work of the devil , and to be salvation unto the ends of the earth unto all that in it believe , and its narive strength , lustre , and rad●ancie is an infallible guide if faithfully followed , to bring to the place of bliss and happinesse , and ●hough thou be in the unbelief , yet this is our report concerning the true light , and we know it is neither prophanenesse , ignorance , imaginations , nor notions . thou satst , this inward light , which the wise mans stiles the candle of the lord , and at the best ▪ saist thou , burnes but in the socket of a corrupt mind with very ●●ch dimnesse , should ever discover the right and ready way to the new jerusalem , is the product only of mens foolish fancies , their pride and ignoran●● . answ . the inward light which the wise man stiles the candle of the lord , is broken forth of the socket of a corrupt mind in many , and now shines upon the house top and what would thou have to discover the right and ready way to new jerusalem , if not the candle of the lord , which is his light within , but this is not thy guide , and so thou remains in jerusalem below , where hagars seed ruleth , but we have found the right and ready way to jerusalem above , the city of the great king , and are set down under his government in peace . thou now comes to speaek of divine revelation , and saith , that god is every where present , filling all places and spaces both real and imaginarie by his immensity . answ . then stand thou in his fear , for he is near thee as a sw●ft witnesse against thee , and however god is present with other things in their kind , yet he doth not reveal himself unto man by any other way , or by any other thing then the light of christ , and we know how god manifests himself in every particular place , according to mans present state and condition , and what his hot displeasure is revealed against , and what his loving kindnesse and mercy is revealed unto . thou saist , but though god be every where present , and so with every creature equally in regard of his infinite essence , and of his emmensity , yet as to the special and peculiar efficacie of his presence he is not with all , either things , or places , or persons after the same manner present . answ . if god be equally present with every creature , in regard of his infinite essence , then all things have the same proportion of it , but all things have not the same proportion of gods infinite essence , therefore not with every creature equally , for an equal proportion is the same to all , and doth not admit of any thing special , but his infinitenesse is in himself , and he measures forth so much as his pleasure is to give , and it is an equal proportion unto all according to his pleasure , yet some have more and some lesse , but all some , and that measure so manifested in man , hath a peculiar efficacie as to its operation , through the obedience unto it , and this is equal in it self , and special by it self , and yet in the infinitenesse of essence without any distinction . thou sayst that god is present with all his creatures as the preserver , guider , and governour of them . answ . whosoever sinneth are not preserved , guided , nor governed by god , but some do sin , therefore god is not so present with all , but they that come to the effectual working of his power , they know an immortal birth quickned and raised , with which the preserving , guiding , and governing power of god is present . thou saist , thy design mainly intended is against those , who because they are wise in their own conceit , do neglect publick sermons and sacraments . answ . thy main intendment and design is against those that god hath redeemed from the earth , and from all false ways and worships , and gathered them into the publick worship of his spirit , where they hear christs voice and follows him , and cannot own thy church , or sermons , or sacraments . in the second chapter , thou seems to hold forih a general presence of god with all thing , and more especially with some things , but hath not shewed what those things are , though thou intend it to the worship now generally practifed , but hast never come close to the matter thou aimes at , but hast multiplied thy own words and thoughts about the saints worship in times past , which according to the scripture we own in t●eir dispensations , but thou hast not proved that the place which thou calls a church , or the worship that is there observed is either of them true or warrantable according to any scripture precept or president , or the mind of god at this day , so that thy whole book may silence it self as to the matter thou aims at , for where a thing is not rightly stated , and truly proved , it is a sufficient proof against it self ; yet i shall briefly answer a few things more . thou sayest , had there not been a peculiar people , a royal seed , even the church of god , to be raised out of the ruines of fallen man by the interposing of christ , first proffered and propounded for the worlds reparation in that fundamental promise the seed of the woman shall break the serpents head . answ . thou hast confessed that the church of god is the royal seed , then it is such as are born of the seed that are gods peculiar people , and true members of his church ; therefore mark thy own words , for if the royal seed be the church , as thou hast confessed , and in it self is true , then neither wood , nor stone , nor people in the fall can be the church , and the seed is known in which the church flourisheth in this day of her restitution out of the wildernesse , and the promise is unto us fulfilled who are born of god. thou sayest , but among all the manifestations of gods presence and favours , there are none more remarkably signal for constant reviving and comforting the hearts of his people , then those that have been truly experienced in his ordinances , enjoyed by his servants in those places which either by divine appointment , or at least by divine approbation have been separated and set apart for religious worship , and the service of god. answ . this is a place in which thou hast come as near the matter thou aims at , as any place in thy book , therefore i shall speak more fully to it , thou hast so stated the matter in general terms , as that it may lye which way any will bend it , and is it reasonable to state things in general terms , as to what hath been , and not to discover the things that are , which is the matter thou undertakes to vindicate , for as to the appointment , or at least approvement of god concerning the sanctuary , tabernacle , temple , and synagogues , we do not deny but christ is come the fulfiller of all figures , and he saith , neither at jerusalem , nor at this mountain shall men worship the father , but the true worshippers shall worship him in spirit and truth : and thou sayest , it was but the ceremonial part that was abolished , but thou may know that it was the very place in which their worship was performed in that dispensation , for christ said concerning the temple , that there should not be left one stone upon another which should not be thrown down , which thing came to passe , so that the place once appointed of god was thrown down , and he did not command that it should be set up again for a place of worship , and the true worshippers that followed christ , they worshipped in the spirit , and they was not bound to time , place or person , but as they was ordered in the spirit , so they was instant to serve god and worship him ▪ without regarding either p●ace or time , so that it may be understood , that there was never any particular place appointed or approved of god since that time as a place set apart onely for a place of worship ; and as for those places which are now called churches , they were never set apart by divine appointment for any such service as is practised in them ; and therefore the hearts of such as waits to be revived and comforted with the refreshings of gods presence , must turn away from them , and turn to the light of christ within , where the streams of life runs sweetly , for god is no other way known in that place which thou would have to be a church , nor in that worship which is there observed but by manifesting himself against them , and when thou comes to be truly awakned in thy conscience , thou wilt know that neither thy church , worship , or ministry are either appointed , approved or ordained of god. thou sayest , do you count it your priviledge , your perfection to throw off gods publick ordinances , with an admiration of your silent and dumb congregations in private , must it not needs argue , saidst thou , a very sleepy , not to say a benummed and besotted conscience , thus to throw away the wholesome milk of the word in a disdainful pet , and yet never complain of the hunger and thirst of your souls . answ our priviledge and perfection is in christ , whom god hath ordained to be our salvation , and he gives us the milk of his word , and feeds us with meat in due season , and that is our food in silence , by which we are kept fresh and living unto god , whilest all false worshippers are asleep in the first adam , and benummed and besotted in the earthly nature , where they have no sense nor feeling of the virtuous springs , and our tongues are not our own , nor our wills at liberty , and yet the gospel is unto us committed , and in the word of life we publish the glad tydings of it , and though we do not speak words , yet we feel the presence of god with us , and that satisfies our hunger , and refreshes our thirst , and he answers all our complainings in secret , but thou wouldst have us complain to such as thee , and to buy thy words for food , and to receive them for satisfaction which we turn away from , knowing it is but a dry brest in which there is no vertue at all thou saist , a quaker once told thee , he got more good by their silent meetings , then ever he got by hearing the ministers in publick . answ . as to thy publick ministery , his words might be true , yet who are sent of god , and preaches the gospel of god , we do get much good by their publick ministery , for thereby we are informed into the life and power of god , which in silent waiting upon him we taste and feel , and all our fresh springs are in him . thou seist , god ordains not our immediate addresse to heaven , we must live by faith , and not by vision , but he commands us to use ordinary means . answ . god doth ordain our immediate addresse to heaven , and that in the work of our faith , and we live by it , and have the holy visions of god opened in it , and by this means we find comfort to our souls , and whether would thou have people to make their addresse , if not to heaven , would thou not have them addresse themselves upto christ , and is not christ in heaven , and what faith would thou have them to live by , and what means would thou have them to use , if they must not addresse themselves to heaven , for true faith and means goes to heaven , and all that lives by the faith ●f ●he son of god , and uses those means that he appoints them 〈◊〉 a●dresse 〈◊〉 selves immediately to heaven , and in all their distresses and afflictions , they finde grace to help them in their need , ●nd by this faith we live in the power of an endlesse life . thou sayest , well , however sampsons foxes may have their heads looking divers ways , yet they are joyned together with firebrands in their tails ; and howsoever those that desert the publick means , may tend some of them to prophanenesse , others to a schismatical , not to say an heretical separation , many heresies going currently for new lights , yet , sayest thou , this is the firebrand , or rather the devils dead coal . answ . we are gathered in the unity of the spirit of god , in which our faces are turned sion-ward , and looks all one way , and after the manner which thou calls heresie , so worship we the god of our fathers , and thy words belongs to thy self , and the sons of adam in the fall , who are looking , some to one thing , and some to another , and yet the firebrand joyns your tails , with which you would burn up the fruitful field , and consume gods heritage from the earth ; and this is a coal of cains nature , which the devil blows up sometimes into a heat , and sometimes into a flame , and so thou may read the next chapter ( which is the third ) to be thy own state , in which thou speaks of cains going forth from the presence of the lord , and sayest , they which voluntarily leave gods instituted worship , and his commanded ordinances , put themselves into a wandering condition . answ . yes , they do so , and therefore it must needs follow , that they that forsakes the will worships , and vain worships , and comes to gods instituted worship in his spirit , that they come into a stayed and settled condition ; and so it is , thou and old adam , sons in the fall , that are in cains countrey , sometimes wandring after one invention , sometimes after another , and this is your worship which god never instituted , but the children of light are in covenant with god , and rests in peace . in the fourth chapter thou sayest , the sons of men which are of a mixt nature , partly spirit , and partly body , are by their very being determined both to time and place , in their rendring actual worship unto god. answ . the mixture is in the fall , but who are regenerated and born again , they live in the spirit , and knows both time and place to render actual worship unto god in the order of his spirit , and yet are not determined to time or place by limittation . thou saist , if the god of this world would have all professours enjoy a total immunity from the law of god , and all manner of licentiousnesse allowed without check of conscience , let him then make an every day sabbath . answ . christ is lord of the sabbath , and christians enjoyes an every day sabbath in christ , of whom the jewes sabbath was a figure , and they are in his righteousnesse , and doth not allow any licentiousnesse , for their rest is holy , and they lie down in it without check of conscience . thou saist , publick worship speaks a joint concurrence of several worshippers for the performance of the same action of religious worship , so that the very light of nature , saist thou , gives it clear suffrage for the necessity of convenient places of meeting for the performance of the publick worship and service of god. answ . christians do jointly concur in the spirit in which they have unity , and that in the same action of religious worship , but apostates cannot do so , and though they meet together in one place , yet not having unity in the spirit , they cannot jointly concurre in the woiship of god , and so the place and worship ( which thou calls publick ) being set up in the apostasie , and not after christ , the christians cannot own them , for light and darknesse hath no communion together . thou saist , is not this to cry up inward light , and yet plainly to live in darknesse ? answ . this is to cry up inward light , and to live in it , and therefore it is that we deny all false worships which is set up and practised in the darknesse . thou saist , i have neither faith to believe , nor any reason to see that there is any separated , i adde , and consecrated places for divine worship , any such legal or ceremonial kind of holinesse , which renders duties performed there more acceptable unto god , then if performed by the same persons , and in the like manner in any other places . answ . thou hast all this while been pleading for that separated place to be the church , and hast been holding forth a special presence of god in that worship which is there performed , and now thou saith , that duties performed there are no more acceptable unto god , then if performed in any other places , and if thou have neither faith to believe it , nor reason to see it , as thou saist , then thou might have spared thy pains in writing thy book , for thy chief aim is to bring people to conform to the worship there observed , as the worship of god in his church , which if duties be no more acceptable unto god which is there performed , then if performed in any other place , then such as withdrawes from it may perform duties as acceptable unto god in other places , according to thy own faith and reason , & so it is not a true church , nor a true worship , for the worship and duties performed in the true church which is in god are only accepted of god , and in no other place or places whatsoever , and here thou hast pulled down thy own building with thy own hands . thou saist , here then arises that ample provision that christ hath made for his special presence in the places of religious worship , ( viz. ) from the communion of saints meeting in convenient separated places for publick worship , and from the promise annexed thereto , and not from any peculiar holinesse , in those places where they thus meet to worship god. answ . the communion of saints is in the light of christ , and so saith john , if we walk in the light as he is in the light , then have we fellowship one with another ; and this is not the state of adam in the fall , neither can his sonnes and daughters perform a religious worship unto god , and so no church either by communion of saints , or the place it self , and therefore such worshippers have not the promise annexed . in the fifth chapter , thou seems to hold forth the special presence of god in publick worship , by his train or retinue of angels , to which i answer generally . answ . that god is present in his publick worship which is performed in his spirit , was never yet denied by us , but thou hast not proved thy worship to be the worship of god , and therefore we say that gods presence is not in it to the comfort of the worshipper , and this may answer all thy jumblings about the angels , for thou art not come to the angelical ministration . in the sixth chapter thou seems to hold forth the practical inferences drawn from the presence of angels in the places of publick worship . answ . when he bringeth forth his only-begotten son into the world , he saith , and let all the angels of god worship him , and this is a full answer to this whole chapter . in the seventh chapter thou seems to hold forth gods presence in publick worship by his word , with some other particulars relating to that matter , which i might mention and answer , if i did intend largenesse , but finding the whole matter of thy book to lye chiefly as to church , worship , ministry , and practice , as they generally now stand , i shall not make needlesse repetitions , by answering the same thing over and over , yet this i say unto this chapter , that gods presence by his word is in his worship , and all that worship him aright he teaches them by his word , but that thy preaching is the word of god , or that the word of god is in thy preaching , or his presence by his word in that publick worship , through they preaching , that thou hast not any where proved , and therefore it falls of it self . in the eighth chapter thou seems to hold forth practical inferences , that teachers of the word must not corrupt the word of god , and that it must be owned as gods word , and received and mingled with faith , and practised in obedience . answ . i answer generally , that they who are born of the word which is immortal , they do not corrupt it , but are true and faithfull ministers of it , and many have received it as it is indeed the word of god , and they mingle it with faith , and practises it in obedience , and such are doers of the word , and are blessed , but thy tongue must learn silence , and thou must know a new birth , and a new tongue , before thou can truly minister the word of god. in the ninth chapter thou seems to hold forth the presence of god in his worship by his ministers , and that the truths of god must be heard , though from ungodly preachers , and that ministers are gods embassadours , and stewards of the mysteries of god , and that god and man works together in the conversion of souls , and production of saving faith . ans . thou said even now , that teachers of the word must not corrupt the word , then how can an ungodly man preach it , and not corrupt it , and this matter being reduced out of thy general terms , and stated particularly into such as it doth properly belong , then we can truly say , that gods presence is in his worship by his ministers , and that they are his embassadours and stewards of his mysteries , but we dare not say , that so it is with ungodly men , or that the ministry of ungodly men doth work to the conversion of souls , or production of saving faith . some few particulars of this chapter i shall answer . thou sayest , it is so certain a truth , that if the minister be bad , yet if he preach the pure word of god , we must receive the word , because we are not so much to regard the man preaching , as the word preached . answ . no lye is of the truth , for it is as possible that the east and west should joyn together ; as for a bad man , or an ungodly man to preach the pure word of god , for god doth not make use of such men to be his embassadours or stewards , neither can such work together with god in any service for him , because it is inconsistent with the pure nature of god , to be a co-worker with an ungodly man , for an ungodly man is against god , and god is against all his ungodlinesse ; and these cannot possibly work together in man , being that they are contrary in nature , one to the other ; and yet thou fears not to go about to prove this ungodly assertion from the ministry of iudas , and saith , that of all of them christ said , he that receiveth you , receiveth me , and yet one of them was iudas iscariot who also betrayed him . then thou sayest , we may plainly see by christs own words , we may receive christ by the ministry of judas a traytor , nay , sayest thou , i might say a devil . answ . thou art gotten into high prophanenesse , for when iudas was sent forth with the rest , he had part in the ministry , but when treacherous thoughts did rise in him , and that the devil stirred him up to act his treachery , he was never a minister of christ after that , and it may be read in the first of acts , where the disciples prayed , and said , shew which of these two thou hast chosen , that he may take part of this minis●●y and apostleship , from which iudas by transgression fell , mark it , and consider thy assertion . thou saist , that every saint should have their garments died white in the bloud of the lamb , much more christs stewards , they should be cloathed with the white robes of sincerity to act unfeignedly for god. answ . these are only words , as if one proud man should bid another be humble , or one drunkard bid another be sober , and tell them it should be so , but view thy self , and the rest which thou looks upon to be stewards , and see if thou can find it so indeed , and if not , then you are not as you should be by thy own confession , and if christs stewards should have their garments so died , then surely no bad man , or ungodly man , can stand in that office , neither is it possible , that any such should act unfeignedly for god , but who are his stewards indeed , through the sanctification of the spirit , they are cloathed with his righteousnesse , and are approved in his sight . in the tenth chapter thou seems to hold forth practical deductions from gods presence with his ministers , and saith , god is affronted by any indignities that are offered to his ministers , and how can any have so impudent a face , sayest thou , as to pretend they are sent of god , who makes railing and reviling of others to be their work . answ . this is the work which thou art found to be in , who calls the ministration of the spirit canting language , and christs ministers foxes and hereticks , which surely are great indignities , and in the highest manner of railing and reviling by which thy practical deduction is found to be out of gods presence , and railing and reviling of others were never our work , though we do give righteous judgement against the seed of the evil doer . in the eleventh chapter , thou seems to hold forth gods presence in his worship by the holy spirit , and saist , the word and the spirit goes together , and thou saist , thou shall begin with the evangelical prophet isaiah , as for me , this is my covenant with them , saith the lord , my spirit which is upon thee , and my words which i have put into thy mouth , shall not depart out of thy mouth , nor out of the mouth of thy seed , nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed , saith the lord , from henceforth , and for ever . answ . this was the word of the lord unto the prophet , and he had the spirit in the word , my spirit which is upon thee , ( mark ) here was the spirit upon him , and the word spake in the spirit , and the word put words into his mouth , ( mark again ) and the word said , my words shall not depart out of thy mouth , nor out of the mouth of thy seed , ( mark again ) the word was in the seed , and was not to depart out of the mouth of the seed , nor out of the mouth of the seeds seed , from henceforth and for ever , saith the lord ; and this is the word that lives and abides for ever , and it is in the mouth of the seed , and from the seed are the words of the word spoken , and there is the true ministry , if thou hast an ear to hear ; and here is the word and the spirit joined together , which is the word of the gospel that we preach . thou saist , all gods children shall be clearly taught by the spirit of god. answ . then is man laid wholly aside in that work , and why art thou so offended at silent meetings , when thou saist all gods children shall be clearly taught by his spirit ; and if clearly , then it doth not admit of any conjunction in its teaching . thou saist , mans preaching may fill the head full of notions , but the spirits teacbings must fill the heart with real motions of grace and goodnesse towards god. answ . then let all flesh be silent , that notions may die and wither , and that the heart may come to be exercised towards god in his spirit , and then people will not be alwaies learning , as now they are amongst notions , but will come to the knowledge of the truth in the spirit , and so come to the joy of gods salvation . thou saist , take a christian without faith , and you unchristian him . answ . every true christian lives in the faith , and therefore cannot be taken without it , and so cannot be unchristianed , as being without it . in the twelfth chapter , thou seems to hold forth the spirits teaching five wayes , . by removing impediments , . by suggesting gospel truths to the soul , . by enlightening the mind , . by strengthning the soul , . by raising truths . ans . thou art quite beside the matter , for these particulars do not so belong to the spirits teaching , as to its working , only the third particular is as to its manifestation , for to remove , suggest , strengthen , and raise , is a work of the spirit , but the teachings of the spirit is in checking , reproving , and convincing , and as the obedience is yielded to it , so it teaches to deny the evil which it doth convince of , and reprove for , and teaches to live in that which is good that comes from god , and so it teaches to deny ungodlinesse , and teaches to live soberly , mark it well . thou saist , concerning the enlightning of the mind , that all the lights in the world is never able to make us see divine truths savingly , till we are enlightned of the lord. answ . then why art thou contending against the light of the lord , seeing thou saist that none can see divine truth savingly , till they be enlightned by him ; would thou keep people from that which will let them see divine truths , but divine truths may be seen in the light , and yet not savingly , for salvation is not in the sight of truth , but in the union with it , for there may be much seen to be truth , and yet the error not forsaken . thou saist , none are truely enlightned but those that are in christ . answ . the light of christ doth enlighten every one that comes into the world , and yet every one that comes into the world is not in christ , but as the light which is manifest from christ is obeyed , so it worketh death upon the old man , and raise up life and immortality , and regenerates man into the nature of it , where he becomes a new creature in christ , and is light in the lord. thou sayest , there is no true light that leads to salvation , but what comes from christ the son of righteousnesse . answ . then to preach that light is neither canting nor delusion as thou had termed it , for it is the light which comes from christ the sun of righteousnesse which we preach , and we know that there is not another name given under heaven by which any can be saved . thou sayest , let others therefore sit down and embrace that so much mired darling of an inward natural , yet saving light in all , we know , saist thou , that it is but a changeling , and not the genuine off-spring of the spirit . answ . thou hast said , no light for salvation but from christ , and now saith the light within is a changeling , and this is not agreeable with the apostles doctrine who said , the light that shines in our hearts , gives us the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of christ jesus , and thou cryes inward natural , yet saving light in all , and that it is but a changeling , but we say , the inward natural as it is of man is not saving to any , but the inward spiritual light as it comes from the nature of christ , is saving to all that believe in it , but the condemnation of such as believe not , and therefore we say , that the light of christ within , is not a changeling , but the alpha and omega , yesterday and to day , and the same for ever . in the thirteenth chapter thou seems to hold forth the qualification of the spirits teachings , by teaching fully , pleasantly , seasonably , certainly , and profitably , and that it brings in no new lights objective ; and thou saist , what makes souls to quit their comforts in this life , their friends , their estates , their liberties , yea their lives themselves rather then part with those truths the spirit hath taught them . answ . why this is the reason that makes them do all those things , because they love christ more then all , and prizes the truth which he hath taught them more then all the world , but that thou art of the number of those that are so given up to god , and loves his truth , doth not any way appear , for thou enjoyes thy friends , thy estate , and liberty , and life , thou hast fulnesse , and art at ease , thou art not come to travel in hunger , and cold , and perils , to make known the glad tydings of the gospel , thou art not in bonds and prisons for the truth of god and the testimony of a good conscience , these things comes not near unto thee , but thou art reviling the innocent , who have received the teachings of gods spirit , and loves the truth above all the world , or the enjoyments of it , for which cause we suffer as to our libertie and estates , and our lives are in jeopardy , yet in the comfort of truth we have our rejoycing , though thou adde afflictions to our sufferings . thou saist , we have no foundation for such gradual teachings as to expect the spirit should teach more truths afterwards , then are written in the word of god. answ . the spirit of god is not limitted , as to what may , or may not be in mans expectation , for god manifests the truth by his spirit according to his own pleasure , and in his own time , and the spirit opens the scripture in fulfilling of them , and also manifests the mind of god in what he will further reveal and make known . thou saist , though the spirit teaches in the word , that there can be no absolute perfection in this life , telling us in the words of s. john , that if we say we have no sin , &c. and yet saist thou , the spirit teaches the soul gradually to breathe after perfection . answ . the word and the spirit is perfect , and all born of the spirit are perfect , and the words of john in that scripture doth not relate to the birth born of god , for when he comes to speak of that birth , he saith , whosoever is born of god sinneth not , &c. and that which sinneth not is perfect , and what good doth thy ministry if thou do not bring people to that which is perfect , or where would thou have people to be perfect , if they die imperfect ? surely thy message is sad to that which breathes after perfection , and thou hast not received the gift from christ , which is for perfecting of the saints , and so thou art teaching another doctrine , then the true ministers teaches , who labours that they may present every man perfect in christ jesus . i now come to thy last chapter , wherein thou seems to hold forth practical deduction from gods presence by his spirit ; and thou saist , coming unto god , in a way that god never owned nor prescribed , is a direct turning away from him . answ . christ is the way unto the father , and there is none can come unto him by any other , and they that walk in this way are preserved 〈◊〉 all by paths , but they that walks in their own way , they turn directly from god , and if thou truly try thy self thou may find it so to be with thee . thou saist , gods spirit teaches none to continue in the practice of known sins , he doth not allow them to sin , and then teach them that is to be spiritual to deem nothing sin that we possibly can commit . answ . the spirit of god teaches to deny all sin , and all that obeys the spirit they come to the crosse which crucifies to the death the sinning nature , and so brings into righteousnesse and holinesse of life , for the birth of the spirit sinneth not , neither doth the birth of the flesh work righteousnesse , and so he that commits sin , is of the devil , and doth not yield himself a servant to the spirit of god. thou saist , he that is taught by the spirit , by that knowledge is carried out to purifie himself , and that the office of the spirit is to sanctifie the soul ; impurity of life , saist thou , is no livery for the disciple of christ to wear . answ . he that purifies himself from sin by the power of the spirit , he doth not live in sin , and he that doth not live in sin , is perfect , but thy livery hath not the shew of a true disciple of christ , but the children of light are cloathed with his righteousnesse , and follows him in the daily crosse . thou saist , we may hear how excellent a thing it is to hear no ministers at all , but to sit still in silence , and to expect heavenly raptures , as if all were possessed with a dumb devil . answ . we hear christs ministers , and yet are taught of god to wait upon him in silence , where we feel his presence with joy , and are gathered into the heavenly raptures of peace and blessednesse , but thy tongue is unbridled , by which we know wha● is at liberty in thee , who shoots thy arrows against the righteous . thou saist , the martyrs that submitted their necks to the block , and their bodies to the flames , yet never suffered for those things , which th●s●●bstinately m●●●tain , who have f●llen from hearing the word , and h●ve left the o●●●nan●es , which we h●ve good ground , saist thou , from the word of god , 〈◊〉 bra●d as e●ro●●● and grosse delusions . answ . the martyrs of jesus hav● ever suffered for his names sake , for they have always ●ad a s●re testimony in the truth , against all deceit and false worsh●● for which they suffered , and for the same and no other thing do ●●b●nds and afflictions betide us this day , so that we have good ground to brand the persecuting spirit , as a spirit of errour , and grosse delusion . thou saist , that they that are taught of the spirit of god , are taught love both to god and men , they then love god for himself , and men for gods sake ; t is true saist thou , love , ( not envy , nor malice , nor reviling , nor hatred , nor backbiting and slandering others that are not just of our opinion , ) that is the fruit of the spirit of god. answ . then behold from what spirit thy fruit is made manifest , for thy own work bears witnesse against thee , that thou art not in the love of god , without which none can truly love him , nor men for his sake , for thou that calls the light of christ within delusion , thou loves not god , and thou that would have men hunted , and taken , and destroyed , thou dost not love them , but art in envy , and hatred , and malice against them , and thou that calls them foxes and hereticks , thou rails and reviles them , and all this because they are not just of thy opinion , but we are in the love of god , and have fervent love to him , and one another , and we do pity all people that abides in darknesse , and though by such we be evil intreated , yet we cannot render evil for evil , but overcomes the evil with good , and herein we bear good will to all men , as our lives do sufficiently manifest , and so having briefly cleared the truth , and the innocent , i shall shut thee up in thy own conclusion , desiring that thou henceforth may be warned , and do so no more , for certainly the hand of the lord hath dealt gently with thee , and his love hath covered a multitude of faults ; and for what thou hast done amisse , i desire thou may be truly humbled before the lord for it , and come to repentance , that he may pardon it , and remit it , who still waits that he may be gracious ; and herein my love is to thy soul , though i have borne a clear testimony against thy spirit , and in the power of god do judge it and condemn it , and shakes it off as a wanderer in the earth , and so in the seed immortal of god i go over it , for the lamb reigns in his dominion , and the glory is his for ever . w. s. the end . some few faults escaped the reader is desired to correct . pag. . line read of after out . p. . l. . for them r. then . p. . ● . for narive r. native , l. . read swift for swft . a short relation of some words and expressions that were spoken by barbara scaife in time of her sickness, a little before she departed this life she was betwixt fifteen and sixteen years of age, daughter to william and issabel scaife of the blacksike near appleby, in the county of westmerland: in profession of the principles of light and life in christ jesus. which those people commonly called quakers do bear testimony to, and had fellowship with, from their child-hood, and had a care upon them to bring up their children in the fear of the lord, and in the knowledge of that truth which they had believed in: and which their children were in their tender age truly acquainted with. scaife, william. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a short relation of some words and expressions that were spoken by barbara scaife in time of her sickness, a little before she departed this life she was betwixt fifteen and sixteen years of age, daughter to william and issabel scaife of the blacksike near appleby, in the county of westmerland: in profession of the principles of light and life in christ jesus. which those people commonly called quakers do bear testimony to, and had fellowship with, from their child-hood, and had a care upon them to bring up their children in the fear of the lord, and in the knowledge of that truth which they had believed in: and which their children were in their tender age truly acquainted with. scaife, william. scaife, isabel. aut. p. s.n.] [[london : ] signed at end: william and issabel scaife. place of publication from wing; date of publication from colophon. with some account of mary scaife who also died of smallpox. copy trimmed. reproduction of the original in the haverford college, pennsylvania. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within 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be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng scaife, barbara, ca. - -- early works to . scaife, mary, ca. - -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . smallpox -- england -- early works to . death -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a short relation of some words and expressions that were spoken by barbara scaife in time of her sickness , a little before she departed this life : she was betwixt fifteen and sixteen years of age , daughter to william and issabel scaife of the blacksike near appleby , in the county of westmerland : in profession of the principles of light and life in christ jesus . which those people commonly called quakers do bear testimony to , and had fellowship with , from their child-hood , and had a care upon them to bring up their children in the fear of the lord , and in the knowledge of that truth which they had believed in : and which their children were in their tender age truly acquainted with . the following expressiions were delivered from the said barbara in the presence of divers persons her parents also being with her for the most part , during the time they were spoken by her . and are given forth in honour to that truth whereof none need be ashamed , but for the blessing sake that accompanies the same , may be encouraged to take their part therein , ( whereunto also the aforesaid damsel upon her dying bed hath testifyed ) and may be of service to all young people to love and fear the lord , in the dayes of their oyuth , that their lives may be comfortable to them , and their latter end peace , and their memorial blessed for ever . the thirtith day of the first month , was the said barbara taken with sickness , and her sister mary also , both of them beginning therewith in one and the same hour . the distemper proved to be the small pox , barbara the first week of her distemper was sorely loaden therewith , but bore her exercise very quietly . the first of her words as relating to her inward state betwixt the lord and her own soul that were taken notice of . she delivered on this wise : mother ( said she ) suffer but few of those people that come to see us to stay in the parlour , but when they have seen us : desire them to go into the house , for we have no need of such empty talk , as is used amongst too many we would be quiet that we may pray to the lord to forgive us the faults we have committed , and if he spare us our life at this time i hope and do believe we shall amend and have a care of displeasing the lord while we live : after which words she spake very little for four dayes time . ●●d about the seaventh day of her sickness and the sixt of the second month : she asked where her father was , her mother told her he was at the plough , she said let some call him in : for i believe i must leave this world shortly : and after a little time , she begun to pray to the lord with a very clear voice in a miraculous manner , saying . o almighty god i cry unto tbee , and beseech thee blot out all my transgressions . o lord and all my sins . o let them come no more into thy remembrance . i beg it of thee in the name of christ jesus with all my soul , and with all my strength : and let thy fafourable countenance be upon me : thus she prayed in a wonderful heavenly frame , desiring the lord also to make her passage sweet unto her by his consolating spirit , and that he would satisfie and enable her parents so to bear it : as that they might not offend the lord , and that he he would confirm and strengthen her weak sister to give up her self freely , as she blessed god she her self had done . she prayed to the lord to give her a mansion place in his favourable presence : and that no more might be laid upon her parents then what with patience they might be enabled to bear . she continued her supplications to the lord for about three quarters of an hour , to the admiration of those that were present with her : and several being there that did not profess the light and truth : which she testifyed to , and dyed in , were broken into tenderness to the shedding of many tears , and said how can any dye better then she is like to do . the said barbara called her brother to her bedside , and she fastning her eyes upon him said , brother john , be faithful to the lord and thy religion : and it may fall out that when thou art a man , the wicked persecutors may hurry thee into prison for the testimony sake thou hast to bear , be sure thou do not regard that , but keep faithful to the lord and he will deliver and be thy reward . she exhorted her parents not to trouble themselves with too much of the worlds concerns . but ( said she ) let that to some which you have here ( it beng a remote place ) and go to live near some good meeting : sedbergh meeting if you can : if my sister and i be both taken frm you : and take my brother ▪ john with you and bring him well up i desire you , and be all of you content : and one that was not of the same profession which her parents and she were of , being then present , asked her if she could freely part with father and mother , brother and other relations . she answered saying , i can freely part with and leave them all , for the enjoyment of that comfort and happiness which my soul is made sensible of : she prayed again unto the lord with praises also in her mouth unto him magnifying also the riches of his grace and goodness , for the comfort she had received from him , to her immortal soul : at another time , her mother endeavouring to get her to take some meat . i desire thee ( said she ) do not trouble me with meat , for if you think thereby to keep me , it is all in vain , for i must die and leave you : neither would i desire to live for all the world : for to be with the lord is better then ten thousand worlds , with whom i shall rest for evermore , even with god and his saints , his faithful people and servants , the sons and daughters of the upright , glory to his name for evermore . at many times duriug her sickness she manifested unspeakable love to her father and mother , and to her weak sister , touching whom she said to her mother , do not stay with me what ever may befal me , but go to her and abide with her , for i do desire that too sharpe sickness may not fall on her , until she know her peace with god : she said again : dear mother do not sorrow for me , and perswade my ●●ther not to weep for fear of offending the lord : and least 〈◊〉 ●e longer kept from that heavenly rest which the lord hath prepareed for me , with the redeemed of our god for ever : then her brother coming to the bed side , she said to him , john be true to the lord and love him with all thy heart and with all thy soul , all thy life time : and love not the world nor the pleasures thereof , for the enjoyments of this world are in comparison nothing : they are scarce seen till they are gone : but that which is enjoyed with the lord is for evermore , praises , praises , to his name saitb my soul for ever . at another time she told them , she had only the river of her dissolution to pass through her mother asked her if she saw over it , she said she did see over it , and that she should joyfully pass it into the rest , where all sorrow & tears should be wiped from her eyes for evermore glory and honour to our god for ever : these with many more living and comfortable expressions came from her . after which for some dayes her exerc●●● becoming more weighty upon her , and her weakness encre●●ing , her voice became very low and weak , several times 〈◊〉 was heard to pray to the lord , but none could take 〈◊〉 words to make them intelligable . in the time of all her si●●ness she was very tender in her spirit and circumspect , n●● any uncomly frame of spirit appearing in her or unbecomi●● word proceeding from her that we saw or heard , but ve●● kind and pittyful she was toward those that were with h●● in her sickness , she seemed not much concerned for her ow extremity and pain , but rather concern'd for them that attended her , for the trouble they were put to in helping her ▪ the twenty seventh day of the second month being com● she being much like as she had been for three weeks , but tha● her weakness had increased upon her , and being very chearful and able to express her self : she said to her mother ▪ what thinkest thou of this forenoon : her mother asked her what she meant : she answered and said it will 〈…〉 ar 〈◊〉 my time in this world : for the lord will ease me ere long take away all my pain , and wipe away all tears from min● eyes . call in my father said she , that he may see my departure : her father being come in , said barbara how dost thou ( taking her by the hand ) said she i am ready to leave this world , and therefore father and mother be content and bear me company a little while : and about the first hour in the afternoon she departed this life , like as if she had fallen asleep , about a month after her sickness begun with her . in the time of her health she was of a very bold and chearful spirit : yet tender kind and pittyful toward all that any way stood in need : and what help she could reasonably make them of her own accord she was ready to do it : she was very tender and kind to her parents on all accounts , alwayes careful not to give them any occasion to be displeased with her that she could avoid : her life was lovely her latter end peace : and her memorial lasts and lives with us everlasting praises to the lord who worthy thereof for ever . william scaife . & issabel scaife . mary scaife elder sister to barbara of whom in the forgoing relation mention is made to have been taken with sicknes the very same hour that her sister was : and concerning whom her sister barbara had been very tenderly concern'd and exercised in her spirit for her in supplications to god to give her the knowledge of her peace that hath no end ▪ and who lived but about two weeks after her sister , ●er distemper also of the small pox , was accompanied with a feaver ; so as that she got very little sleep for several dayes which made her extremity the greater . but in the lords time who keepeth covenant and shewes mercy , and giveth the spirit of supplication and prayer to them that believe : opened her mouth in a clear understanding : and ( said she ) o great god jehovah of heaven and earth whose splendour filleth heaven and thy wonders filleth the earth : have mercy upon me thine handmaid . who am as a worm before thee , yet part of thy creation , lord help my weak soul , revive my drooping spirit , by thy consolating presence , strengthen my faith i beseech thee , and help me through this exercise , i pray tbee o lord. that thy will may be done in earth as it is in heaven : after this manner with many other tender expressions she continued in prayer for about halfe an hour , but her sister barbara being very weak at that time , more of her words could not be so taken as to insert them here in writing , but often she prayed to the lord to make her willing to give up her self freely , if the lord required it of her , she desired the lord that if there was any thing in her that did offend him , he would manifest it to her before her weakness became greater : her sister barbara who in supplications to god had waited for the consolation of her weak sister , was abundantly comforted , because of the tender and comfortable frame her sister mary was brought into , and praised god on her behalf with much refreshing satisfaction upon her spirit , as she manifested amongst such as were present with her . after that mary often prayed to the lord in a tender sense upon her spirit and in much fervency of soul , as the living exercise she she was under did demonstate . she had been much inclined from her youth to read the scriptures . being then about years of age . and in her sickness after the lord opened her heart & mouth to shew forth his praife , she often spoke of job and david , and of gods love and goodness to them , and other of his servants in ages past . and now said she , i do know gods love to be the same to me as it was to them : so that said she , i am neither afraid nor unwilling to die , for god blotteth out my transgressions , and layeth nothing to my charge , and i do believe there is a place prepared for me in heaven : and dear mother said she , do what thou canst not to sorrow , my love is great to thee , and my advice is , that you go to live near some good meeting and bring up my brother amongst friends . and her sister being dead she spake of her own death also , and said she was well satisfied that her soul should ascend up to god in heaven , where said she , i do believe my sister barbara's soul is ascended to rest with the lord for ever . then afterwards her sickness encreased and weakness grew upon her , being attended with many violent convulsion fits , so that she could not speak to be understood , but sometimes to say john to her bother : but very low and weakly for about two dayes hefore her departure : her sickness continued upon her six weeks and three dayes and she departed this life , the th . of the d. month , . in her life time she was very obedient & respective to her parents from whom she said she was not inclined to go for preferment , but would be content with the like condition as was alotted them . she was also very careful of her brothers good , of a sober behaviour from her childhood , all her dayes loved the truth and such as feared the lord her latter end was comfortable and satisfactory to her ; of great refreshment to her parents , for which an ingagement lives with them ever to submit to god , and praise his name who is worthy for ever . william scaife . and issabel scaife . a plain testimony to the antient truth and work of god and against the corruption of the clergy, and their upholders. by t. g. goodaire, thomas, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a plain testimony to the antient truth and work of god and against the corruption of the clergy, and their upholders. by t. g. goodaire, thomas, d. . , [ ] p. printed, and sold by t. sowle, at the crooked-billet in holywell-lane, in shoreditch, [london] : . signed at end: thomas goodaire. place of publication provided by cataloger. title page in red and black. copy has extensive print fade. reproduction of the original in the bevan-naish collection, woodbrooke college library, birmingham, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -- clergy -- controversial literature -- early works to . catholic church -- clergy -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . clergy -- religious life -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- apologetic works -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a plain testimony to the antient truth and work of god ; and against the corruption of the clergy , and their upholders . by t. g. jer. . , . a wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land ; the prophets prophesie falsly , and the priests bear rule by their means , and my people love to have it so ; and what will ye do in the end thereof ? printed , and sold by t. sowle , at the crooked-billet in holywell-lane , in shoreditch , . a plain testimony to the antient truth and work of god ; and against the corruption of the clergy , &c. friends and people every where , in all places where this may come , this is to let you know , there is something in my heart and mind for to publish , and to make manifest unto all people that profess christianity , and salvation by christ , what the clergy-men of the world hold forth , both the popish clergy and the protestant clergy , both in doctrine , principles and practices ; and also their manner of doings and practices , as touching the worship and service of god ; and also their persecutions and cruelties which they and their hearers , and members of their churches have acted and done against the people of god , who are in scorn called quakers , and will undertake by the help and assistance of the lord , to prove these things to be true , which is , or may be herein , and hereafter expressed and declared against them , which are as followeth . first , i do affirm , that neither the popish clergy , nor the protestant clergy , nor their hearers that are members of their churches , neither can , nor never shall know jesus christ experimentally to be their saviour and redeemer from their sins and iniquities , as the true ministers and people of god did know him formerly , and as the true ministers and people of god know him now in this our age and generation , to their and our souls true peace , joy , comfort and satisfaction in god ; neither can they ever know the mystery of godliness by experience revealed in them , nor they cannot have a true belief in christ , as the ministers and people of god had , and have now , so long as they live and act in sin , and take pleasure and delight therein , and plead for a continuance in sin so long as they live upon the earth . and it is the doctrine and belief of the clergy-men , before mentioned , and the people that are their hearers , and members of their churches , that none can be set free from sin , nor be made perfect from it in this life ; and so they preach against perfection from sin , which god and christ commanded that people should be perfect and holy ; and are god and christ such hard masters as to command that of people for them to do , which cannot be done nor attained unto in this life ? but the ministers of christ never preached any such doctrine , but on the contrary , they preached perfection from sin , and exhorted the people to press after perfection ; and the lord gave gifts unto men , and he made some apostles , and some evangelists , and some p●●ph●●● , and some pastors and teachers , for the perfecting of the saints , and for the work of the ministry , and for the edifying of the body of christ , until they all came into the unity of the faith , and of the knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature ●f the fulness of christ . and many of the people of god did attain to perfection from sin in this life , and they did know an overcoming of their sins and iniquities in this life , by the help and assistance of the power and spirit of christ working in them : and no man nor woman can be perfect from sin of themselves , nor by any works of righteousness which they can do of themselves , nor by their own wills , but by the help and assistance of the power and spirit of christ working in them ; and so all things are possible with god , which may seem impossible to men ; and the lord is the same that he was then , and he is as able , and sufficient , & willing to do the like for us , & to work the same works in our hearts by his holy spirit , as he did in the hearts of his people formerly , if we do but truly believe in him , and be willing for to obey and follow him , by taking up a daily cross to our own wills , and thoughts , and desires , and inclinations of nature , and so thereby we must deny our selves from doing any thing that will please our selves , if it do offend the lord , and displease him , we must not do it for the gaining of the love and friendship of any people , nor for the gaining of any outward thing , or treasure that is in the world : and we are required and commanded by the lord for to put our whole trust and confidence in him , who hath promised , that he will never leave nor forsake them that puts their whole trust & confidence in him . and these things the lord commanded and required ●is people for to do formerly , which they did in love and in obedience to him , and the lord was with them , and in them , by his holy spirit , and he did help and 〈…〉 spirit for to do and perform those things 〈…〉 required of them for to do ; and this he 〈…〉 d truly believe and follow him , and for all them 〈…〉 fear and love him with all their hearts , above all 〈…〉 gs . and now the lord commands and requires us for to do the 〈◊〉 things ; and if we be willing and obedient to him , and fear and love him with all our hearts , above all visible things , i do verily believe , and i am confident in the lord , that he will help and assist us by his holy spirit for to do and perform all things which he commands and requires of us for to do and perform , now in this our age and generation ; but all them that do not truly believe in christ , nor is not willing for to obey and follow him , nor to deny themselves as aforesaid , and counts god a hard master , by commanding and requiring more of them then they are able to do , or can be attained unto in this life , as they say ; it is manifest unto the lord and his people , that all such are slothful servants , and hide their talents in their earthly hearts , and are disobedient to him , such neither fear nor love the lord as they ought to do , nor as ●e commands them for to do ; and no such slothful , idle , careless people can believe that perfection from sin is to be attained unto in this life , neither are they willing to press after such a good state and condition ; and so he who they love and serve , which is the enemy of their souls in them , prevails against them , and teacheth them for to preach and speak against perfection from sin in this life ; read the scriptures following , gen. . . . . job . . luke . , . mark . . mat. . . acts . . pet. . . king. . , , . mat. . . ephes . . , , . heb. . . heb. . , ● . rev. . , , , . john . . chap . . to vers . . and further i do affirm , that all that preach and speak against perfection from sin , and say , that there is no perfection from sin can be attained unto in this life ; all such persons and people do encourage people for to live in sin , and they do discourage people from pressing after perfection , and they are a means to beget people into unbelief , that they may not believe that such a good state and condition is to be attained unto in this life ; and all such deny the sufficiency of christ , and the end of his coming in spirit , into the hearts and souls of all true christians , and true believers in him ; which end was , and is , for to mortifie , and to kill , and crucifie sin , and to destroy the works of the devil , which is sin and iniquity in people ; and every evil plant which the lord hath not planted , which hath taken deep root in people's hearts , the lord will pluck up by the working of his own power and spirit in the hearts of all true christians , and true believers and followers of christ , who truly love and obey him ; and this great work of christ must be known and witnessed for to be done and wrought by him in every true christian , before christ can be known experimentally for to reign and rule in the hearts and souls of people : and these things are a mystery unto all that live in sin , and take pleasure and delight therein , and unto all the proud and covetous clergy that are in the whole world , that preach for tythes or money , and are hired by people to preach for so much money by the year , which the true apostle paul said , that the love of money was the root of all evil ; and the true ministers of christ hated all such covetous practices , and declared against them ; and paul said , i have coveted no man's silver , or gold , or apparel ; ye your selves know , said he , that these hands have ministred unto my necessities , and to them that were with me : who was a tent-maker , he was not brought up at any schools of learning for to be made a minister of christ ; nor none of the ministers of christ were brought up at any schools of learning , to be made ministers of christ , but several of them were ignorant and unlearned men , as to outward learning and scholarship , which people do so much boast of ; but they were brought up at christ's school , and they were taught of him by his holy spirit , and they were endued with power from on high ; and they were led and guided by christ's spirit into all truth , and out of all the wicked & ungodly ways and practices , which many of the clergy-men , and of their hearers before mentioned , live and walk in now . and the apostle paul said , that the gospel which he preached , be neither received of man , neither was he taught it of man , but by the revelation of jesus christ , and he preached not unto any people with inticing words of man's wisdom , nor of man's learning ; but he preached and spoke unto the people in the demonstration of the spirit , & with power , that their faith should not stand in the wisdom of men , but in the power of god ; and christ made them able ministers of the new testament , not of the letter , but of the spirit ; for the letter killeth , but the spirit giveth life unto the soul : and so the ministers of christ never preached such a doctrine , as these covetous clergy-men do now : read these scriptures , galatians . . , . acts ● , . cor. . . cor. . , , , , . tim. . , , , , , . and you that preach and speak against perfecti●n 〈…〉 sin , and say , none can be set free from sin in this life , can you not believe that christ jesus is as able , and sufficient , and willing to save people from their sins , and to bring them to a perfect state from sin , according as god created man and woman in the beginning , as the devil who is the author of all sin and evil , who makes his children and servants perfect in sin and wickedness , who continue to the end of their days , to obey and follow him , and are led and guided by his spirit into sin and evil , and his evil fruits are brought forth , and acted and done daily by his children and servants , to the great dishonour of god , who made man and woman for to love , fear , serve and honour , and obey him , in truth and righteousness , and to live and walk before the lord , in a holy , godly , righteous life , in all manner of holiness and righteousness , in our holy lives and godly conversations , so long as the lord is pleased that we shall live upon the earth , that so god almighty may be honoured and glorified in us , and by us , that so we may answer the end for which he hath made and created us , which is to fear and love him with all our hearts , which if we do so in truth , then we shall be made willing by the lord for to obey him , and keep his commands , which is the duty of every one so to do . and now , all you that do not believe that perfection from sin can be attained unto , and that not any can be set free from sin in this life , doth not your faith and belief stand in him who is the author of all sin and evil , which is the wicked spirit ? and your faith and belief stands not in christ , who is the author of perfection from sin , who is the good spirit , and saves his people from their sins , but not in their sins ; and christ said , whosoever committeth sin , is the servant of sin. and the apostle paul said , know ye not to whom ye yield your selves servants to obey , his servants ye are to whom ye do obey , whether of sin that leads to death and destruction , or of obedience unto righteousness , which leads to life and peace with the lord. and so long as people live in sin , and are servants to it , they are free from righteousness ; and the apostle john said , he that commiteth sin is of the devil : and he said , he that is born of god sinneth not . read these scriptures , john . . rom. . , . to the end , john . . to vers . . and all that believe that they cannot be set free from sin so long as they live in this world , they know nothing of the new birth experimentally , no more than nicodemus did , which was a ruler of the jews ; nor no such persons nor people that plead for living in sin term of life , they know nothing by expe●●ence what it is for to be regenerated , and born again of water and the spirit , without which inward spiritual knowledge they cannot enter into the kingdom of god ; and they that are born of god by the water and spirit of life , they are not servants to sin , neither will any such plead for sin , nor for a continuance in it as long as they live ; but all such persons and people that are born of god , as aforesaid , they hate sin , and every appearance of it , in thoughts , words and actions , both in themselves and in all other people , where they see sin committed , acted or done ; and those that are born of god by his spirit , they are in christ , and he is in them spiritually , and they are made new creatures by the working of christ's spirit in their hearts and souls ; and all old things that are evil , which is sin and iniquity , comes to be taken away and destroyed , and all things are made new by the workings of the power and spirit of christ in the hearts of all the children of light , who are true believers and followers of christ through the spiritual warfare , and through great tribulations , and tryals , and exercises , which the people of the lord come to know , and to pass through , before they attain to perfection from all their sins ; and it is said , that many are the troubles of the righteous , and through many tribulations must they enter into the kingdom of heaven ; but the lord is all-sufficient for to help his people out of all their troubles and tryals , both inward and outward , those that puts their whole trust and confidence in him : and he hath done great things for many of his people now in our age and generation , which have been under great troubles , sufferings and tryals , both inward and outward , for which we have just cause , and we are bound in duty to bless and praise the name of the lord , and to return unto him all honour , glory , praise , thanks , fear , reverence and true obedience ; for unto the lord alone it doth belong , both from me , and from all that knows him , who have tasted of his love and mercies , blessed and praised be his great and glorious , and heavenly name , both now , henceforth for ever , and for evermore . read these scriptures , john . . to vers . . cor. . . acts . . cor. . . . chap. . . . . . and so the true way that leads to the kingdom of heaven , is a strait and narrow way , for it is a way of holiness , righteousness and purity , and a way wherein all people must deny themselves of doing any evil thing that will offend the lord , or displease him , and therefore there are but a few that find it , and walk in it : and christ's flock is but a little flock , in comparison of the multitude of people that are in the world , but the way that leads to hell and destruction , and so into everlasting torment and misery which shall never come to an end ; this is a broad and wide way , and it is easie , and delightful , and pleasant , to all fleshly carnal minded people for to walk in : and all those people that live and act in sin and evil , and take pleasure and delight therein , and deny perfection from sin in this life , all such persons and people are going on in the broad and wide way , that will lead them into everlasting wo and misery , unless they repent . and therefore it is my advice and counsel unto all people that now live and delight in sin and evil , as you tender the glory of god , and the good and well-being of your immortal souls , come out of all your ungodly ways and doings , and repent and forsake the evil of your ways and doings , and desire the lord to pardon you for all your sins and transgressions , which yon have acted and done against him ; and turn unto the lord , and fear and love him with all your hearts , and hate sin and evil , and every appearance of it , both in your selves , and in all others , that thereby you may come to know a change , and a reformation to be wrought in your hearts by the power and spirit of christ in you , and this is the only way and means for you to find forgiveness , and mercy , and acceptance with the lord for your poor souls ; which if you so do , and find , it will be of more worth and value to you that find it , then all the outward injoyments of honour , or riches , or pleasures that are in the world. and now i shall mention , and lay before you some of the cruelties and bloody persecutions of these clergy-men , before mentioned , and some of their hearers , and members of their churches , which have joyned with them in their cruelties , and bloody persecutions , and shall begin with the popish clergy , and some of the members of their church ; first , it is well known to many people what their doctrine , and principles , and practices are , and what it leads and guides them for to do and act , in those places and countries where they have the rule and power in outward things ; as for instance , they do believet at all people which are not of their faith and religion are sectaries and hereticks , though they be called christians , as i can make appear by their own books , which they have set forth ; and then this hath followed by their practices , that the more hereticks they kill and destroy , many of them think they do god more service , and count it a meritorious work , although the people which they have killed and murthered were no hereticks , but good christians , many of them , and were faithful to god in what he manifested and made known unto them in their age and time ; as for instance , how many of these good people aforesaid , have these popish bloody clergy-men , and the members of their church , caused for to be but and destroyed in queen mary's reign , because they could not for good conscience-sake submit and conform to their idolatrous ways and worships , which were never ordained by the lord , nor never such a doctrine nor practice was ever preached , nor practised by any of the ministers of christ . and so this doctrine and practice , which was and is preached and practised by the popish clergy , and the members of their church , was ordained and set up by the devil and his ministers , and not by christ nor his ministers , as appears plainly by their wicked actions and practices , aforesaid . and i shall mention more of their cruelties and murders , as for instance , how many thousands of protestants did they kill and murder in ireland , even at such a time when the protestants were peaceable and quiet , and did not lift up a hand against them ; and the devil in those murderers did invent such cruel tortures and punishments to put them to death , as scarce hath been heard of amongst the heathens , which are no christians ; and yet notwithstanding they have the boldness and confidence , for to call themselves christians , and say , christ is their saviour : but christ hates and abhors all such murders and cruelties , as are found acted and done amongst them : and christ came not to destroy men's lives , but to save them . and here people may see that these aforesaid , are not acted nor guided by the spirit of christ , but by the spirit of the devil , who was a lyar and a murderer from the beginning . and now i shall mention and lay before you some of the cruelties and great persecutions of the presbyterian clergy , and some of their hearers and members of their church , both in old england , and in new-england , which they have acted and done against the people of god , who are in scorn called by the world quakers ; first , they have cast many of us into prisons , and there they have kept several until they dyed , and by their means and doings they have taken away the goods and chattels of many of our friends , both rich and poor , to the value of many thousands of pounds ; and this they did in oliver cromwell's time , and they proceeded against us for not paying of them tythes , and money for preaching , by a law which gave them trebble damage ; and they caused evil men for to come into our houses and grounds for to distrain our goods and chattels , which they did several times , and sold our goods and chattels , and gave the money to those tything hireling-priests ; and they sold our goods & chattels at an undervalue ; and they took many times goods and chattels from us , which were worth above five times more than they call'd their due ; & thus they have done to many of us . and they have cast several into prisons for less than eighteen pence a piece , at their own valuation , which they said was their due ; and thus they have ruinated several of our friends , and their families aforesaid , in their estates , besides the cruelties which they have inflicted upon our bodies , in casting many of us into prisons , and there they kept many until they dyed ; and thus cruelly , with much more cruelties , which are here too tedious to mention , have they acted and done against us , because we could not for good conscience sake uphold them in their ungodly ways and practices , as to pay them tythes , and money for their preaching , as ministers of christ , as they and the people that hear them , call and account them to be : but christ came to put an end to that law , and priest-hood , and covenant , by which tythes were paid in the time of the law and first covenant , and hath abolished it ; read heb. . , , . and where do ye find , or read in all the scriptures of truth , that any of the true ministers of christ took tythes , or money for their preaching ? or did ever any of the true believers and followers of christ pay tythes ? and whosoever they be that either take tythes , or pay tythes , denys christ to be come , and the end of his coming , so as to yield obedience unto him , by doing that which he requires of them . and now i have something more to mention of the wickedness , and cruelties , and murders of the presbyterian clergy , and the professors and members of their church in new-england , against the people of god , called in scorn quakers ; first , they cast many in prison , and they whipped many in a cruel manner , both men and women , 〈◊〉 their naked bodies ; and they took away the goods and 〈◊〉 of many of the people aforesaid , and they branded and burnt them with hot ●●ons , and they cut off the ears of some , and b●nished them ; and all these cruelties , with much more , which are not here mentioned , which they acted and did against the people aforesaid , would not sati●fie their blood-thirsty spirit . and now i desire all true christians , who are true believers and lovers of christ , to consider and take notice of all these cruelties and murders aforesaid , and see if these clergy-men and people aforesaid , be not acted and guided by the same spirit now that the high-priests , and chief priests , and scribes and pharisees were , when christ was upon the earth ; and they had a form of godliness , and professed scriptures , and they made long prayers , and made clean the outside , and appeared righteous in the sight of men , but their hearts were deceitful , and full of hypocrisie and iniquity , as many of the priests and professors of religion are found to be now , by their evil lives and conversations in this world : and was there any greater enemies to christ jesus , when he was upon the earth , then those high-priests and chief priests , and scribes and pharisees were then ? and they sought every way they could for to destroy christ and his ministers , and sought false witness against them for to have them put to death : and christ and some of his ministers were put to death by means of such wicked ungodly priests and professors of religion as aforesaid , which had a form of godliness , but they were absolute enemies to thse that lived in the life and power of godliness ; as these priests , and professors , and people are now ; & many of these now are absolute enemies to the children of light , and all that do truly believe and own the spiritual appearance of christ in their hearts , as to obey and follow it , who was and is the true light and life of all true christians , and true believers in him in all ages & generations that are past & gone ; and all such christians and true believers in him , who do obey & follow the light & spirit of christ in their hearts , they do , and will receive power daily for to forsake their sins and iniquities ; and the same light and spirit will beget a perfect hatred in their hearts against all sin , and every appearance of it , both in themselves , and in all others , where they see sin acted or done : and whosoever doth truly love and 〈…〉 light and spirit of christ in themselves , which shews them sin , and reproves them for it in secret , when they either think , speak or act any thing that is evil , it will teach and help them to forsake sin , and every appearance of sin , according as the lord doth manifest sin unto them : and whosoever doth truly believe in this light and good spirit of christ , which shews people their sins , and reproves them in their own hearts and consciences , when they do sin against god , if they do truly love , and obey , and follow this light and good spirit in them , it is sufficient in its self , without the help of vain sinful men , which preach against perfection from sin in this life ; i say again , it is sufficient , and there is help and power enough in it , for to lead and guide all people out of their sins , and to give them power to forsake all their sins and iniquities by degrees , all that are willing to deny themselves of all their sinful ways and pleasures , and so become obedient to this light and spirit of christ in them ; and this light and spirit the lord hath given a measure of it freely to every one for to profit withal ; and it is sufficient for to teach all people that truly believe in it , and obey it , and is willing to be taught by it , it will teach them to deny all ungodly thoughts , words and actions ; and it will teach them to live soberly , justly , godly , and righteously in this present world ; and it will teach them for to do unto all people , as they would be done unto themselves ; and it will teach them for to deal , and to do justly to all men , and to love and shew mercy unto all people , and to walk in lowliness , and in true humility before the lord ; and these things the lord requires of every one , and it is the duty of every one so to do . and now if this good spirit of christ did bear rule in every ones heart , it would lead and guide them in all truth and righteousness , and it would lead and bring them out of all the wicked and ungodly ways , and worships , and evil practices which are acted and done amongst all the sons and daughters of men , which are now in the fall , and live in sin and transgression against god , and so are found to be in the unregenerate state , and such are dead in their sins and trespasses , tho' their bodies be alive in this world : and if this good spirit aforesaid did bear rule in every heart , there would not be that killing nor destroying one another , neither about religion , nor no earthly thing whatsoever ; and therefore i would have all people to take notice , that there are two spirits , a good spirit , and an evil spirit ; and the good spirit comes from god , and the evil spirit comes from the devil ; and the good spirit leads people up to god , to have fellowship & communion with him in spirit , in their hearts & souls ; and this is the only communion which is spiritual , that is alone necessary and needful for every one to know in truth , as to their everlasting happiness with the lord , when time here in this world shall be no more to them . and the evil spirit draws and leads people from god , into all manner of sin and wickedness , some into one kind of sin , and some into other kind of sin ; so that all people upon the earth are sinners , and live in sin so long as this evil spirit guides and bears rule in their hearts , and every one is a servant to whether of these two spirits he doth obey ; and to whether of these two spirits be yields his members servants unto , his servants they are to whom they do obey , whether it be unto that spirit which leads them into sin and evil , which is the wicked spirit , or it be that they do obey the good spirit , which leads and guides all them that are led and guided by it , into all truth and righteousness , and out of all sin and iniquiry ; and whosoever hath not the spirit of christ , they are none of his , let them profess what they will , or be of what judgment or religion soever , if they have not the spirit of christ in them for to teach , and instruct , and counsel them , they are none of christ's servants nor ministers ; read these scriptures , rom. . . to vers . . rom. . . to the end , john . . to vers . . tit. . . to the end , john . . to vers . . cor. . . and all them that do love and believe in the light and spirit of christ in them , which shews them sin , and reproves them in their own hearts and consciences , many times when they do sin , insomuch that i have heard several people say , when they have sinned , i pray god forgive me ; when as at that time no person outwardly did speak to them ; but it was the light and spirit of christ in them , that shewed them that they had sinned against the lord at that time ; and whosoever minds and takes heed to that light and spirit of christ in them , and believes in it , so as to obey and follow it , it will not only shew them their sins and evil deeds which they have done and committed against the lord ; but it will beget a perfect hatred against all sin in them , that do truly love and believe in this light and good spirit aforesaid , and it will beget secret crys and breathings unto the lord , in their hearts and souls , that he would be pleased to pardon them , and to give them power for the time to come to forsake the evil of their ways and doings ; that they might never sin against the lord any more ; and this hath been my state and con●●●ion , and many more of the people of god ; and now we can say in truth , to the praise and glory of the lord it is spoken , that we that were sinners and unbelievers , and were dead in sins & trespasses in days & years that are past and gone , as well as others ; and then at that time when we were in that sad and miserable state and condition , as aforesaid , the lord was pleased out of his infinite love , mercy & goodness , for to reveal and make known himself unto us , even at that time when we were enemies , aliens and strangers unto him by wicked works , which we had done against the lord , notwithstanding all our profession of religion , and fair pretences which we made , that we did love the lord , and believe in him , and did worship and serve him , as we thought then ; but it pleased the lord of his great love and kindness to us to appear in our hearts , by his light and good spirit , which he manifested and revealed in us at that time ; and the lord was pleased by his light and spirit for to search our hearts , and to let us see the deceit and the evil that was in our hearts , by reason of sin and iniquity , which the enemy of our souls , ( which is the wicked spirit ) had wrought in our hearts , and we knew it not , when we lived in our sins , and took pleasure and delight therein ; and so instead of denying our selves from doing those things , which did offend and displease the lord , we did those things which did offend him and grieve his holy spirit , as too many do now ; and when we did those things which grieved the lord , we did not then walk in the strait and narrow way that leads to life and peace with the lord ; but we were then walking in the broad and wide way that leads to hell and destruction , which many thousands are now walking in , that live in their sins , and take pleasure and delight therein ; but now the lord out of his free love , and grace , and mercy hath called us out of the evil of the world , and the vain conversation that people live and walk in , both professors and prophane , and he hath revealed and made known his mind and will unto us , what he would have us for to do , and what he requires of us , which is to live the lord with all our hearts , above all visible things that are in the world ; and also to fear , serve , honour and obey him in truth and righteousness , and to do justly with all men , and to love mercy and walk humbly with god ; and now we find that the lord hath made a remnant of us freely willing for to serve and obey him , and to do his will in what he makes known unto us , in all things which he commands and requires of us for to do . and this great work which the lord hath already wrought in our hearts , and the great things which he hath done for us , and in us , by his power and spirit , he hath not done it for any goodness , or worthiness , or any deserts which he saw in us , nor for any works of righteousness which we have done , whereby to move , or to ingage the lord for to do these great things , either for us , or in us ; but he hath done all these things for his own name sake , and in love to our immortal souls , and out of his free love , and mercy , and kindness to us , for which we are bound in duty , and are ingaged to return unto the lord all honour , glory , praise , thanks , love , fear , reverence and obedience ; for unto him alone it doth belong , both from me , and from all that know how good and gracious he is , and hath been unto them , who is god over and above all , blessed and praised be his great , holy , and heavenly name , both now henceforth , for ever , and for evermore ; amen . and now i would have all people to take notice , where this may come , that all persons and people that despise and reject the light and spirit of christ in them , which shews them their sins , and reproves them in secret when they do evil , and say , it is but a natural light , and that it is not sufficient , nor hath power to save people from their sins , nor to keep and preserve them out of sin , all such are unbelievers , and hate christ , and love their evil deeds ; for christ is that light and good spirit in them , and he hath given a measure of it freely to every one to profit withal : and all them that truly love and believe in this light and good spirit in them , and is willing for to obey and follow it , all such will come to know salvation and redemption by christ from their sins and iniquities ; but all those that hate , and despise , and reject the counsel and teaching of this light and good spirit in them , and so slight and undervalue it , and count it a thing of nought , it will be the condemnation of all such , and the lord will be found just when he comes to judge them ; and this light and good spirit in them will bear witness against them when they come to judgment , which will be more than a hundred witnesses outwardly ; read these scriptures , john . , , , . chap. . . chap. . . chap. . , , . cor. . . col. . . chap. . , . and i do verily believe , that there is and shall be a resurrection , both of the just and unjust without respect of persons , w 〈…〉 just god of heaven and earth , for to give 〈…〉 all their deeds and actions which they have 〈…〉 time , and every one shall receive a reward from god , 〈…〉 their deeds which they have done in their bodies , whether they be good or evil . and now it concerns both me , and every one for to prise our time , which the lord is pleased to give to us to live upon the earth , that we may walk circumspectly and wisely , in the wisdom of god , before the evil day come , which will certainly come upon the wicked and ungodly , that live and dye in their sins and iniquities : and it is the true desire of my heart and soul , that we may all spend our time which the lord gives us to live upon the earth to gods honour and glory , by bringing forth good works and actions in our holy lives and godly conversations , to the praise and honour of his great and worthy name , that so we may answer the end for which god hath made and created us , which is to love him with all our hearts , and to fear , serve , honour and obey him in truth and righteousness , whereby god almighty may be honoured and glorified , both in us and by us , who is worthy to have all the honour , glory , praise , thanks , fear and true obedience , for unto him alone it doth belong , both from me , and from all that know the lord how good he is to them , both now and for ever , and for evermore ; amen . read these scriptures , rom. . . cor. . . rev. . . and now i shall come to mention something of the cruelties and persecutions of the episcopal clergy , who are teachers of the people of the church of england , so called , and some of their hearers and members of their church that assisted them in their cruelties ; first , they imprisoned many hundreds of the people of the lord , called in scorn quakers ; and by their means we were put into nasty holes and dungeons amongst thieves and murderer ; and some of us were fettered and chained with irons on both legs as they do to the worst of malefactors ; and our friends and acquaintance were not suffered for to come to see us , although some of our friends did come a hundred miles or more , for to see us , and neither they nor we could be suffered to see one another ; and they have gone away without seeing of us ; nor there was not any suffered to come to relieve us , nor to help us to such things for our money as we stood in great need of ; nor we were not suffered to have any manner of bedding brought in , not so much as a little straw to lie upon , to keep us off the cold ground , although we would have paid for it : and this was worse cruelty than many use to their dogs and swine : and so the goalers would force us to buy victuals of them at their own rate , or else we must have none , which was dearer by half then we might have had it of other people , if we could have been suffered to buy it at best hand ; and there many were kept in prisons until they dyed , by reason of such cruel usage as aforesaid . and these clergy-men caused many of our houses to be rifled , and they went into the grounds , and took and carried away out of our houses and grounds much goods and chattels several times , which they sold at an undervalue , less by half than they were worth : and they took away goods and chattels from many of us , which were worth above five times more than they could prove to be their due ; and they distrained all the goods in some houses , and left them not a bed to lie upon , neither for the man of the house , nor his wife , children nor servants , although some of the men's wives , which had their houses so rifled and plundred , was but newly delivered of a child , or children ; and so they took no pitty , nor shewed no mercy neither to men , women or children , that were in such a state and condition as aforesaid : and thus they have ruinated several persons and their families , by taking away their goods and chattels , which they and their families should have lived upon : they did live very well & comfortably before these wicked ungodly clergy-men , and the upholders of them came upon them thus to destroy them . and they have taken away goods and chattels from us worth many thousands of pounds . and all these cruelties and wickedness they have done and acted against us , is only because we could not for good conscience-sake pay them tythes , and money for their preaching , as ministers of christ , which we know in our own hearts and consciences , and also by the scriptures of truth , that neither christ , nor his true ministers , never ordained any such wages , nor they never practiced any such things , nor never took tythes nor money for their preaching , nor never preached such a doctrine as these tything hireling-priests do now : but on the contrary , they denyed all such ungodly ways and practices , and spoke against them , and said , that covetousness is idolatry , and the love of money is the root of all evil ; and , that these things ought not to be done , nor practiced amongst the ministers of christ ; and as the apostle paul said , so say we , if any one preach any other gospel , or any other doctrine , than that which the ministers of christ preached unto the people formerly , let him be accursed . and the ministers of christ were endued with power f●●● on high , and they were taught of christ ; and the gospel which they preached , they neither received is of man , neither were they taught it of man , neither did they learn it at any outward schools of humane learning ; neither did they buy it for money ; but the lord did reveal it unto them by his holy spirit , which he gave unto them freely ; and so they preached freely without any tythes or money : neither did they go to law , nor compel , nor cast any sort of people into prison , because they gave them not tythes nor money for their preaching . and therefore i do affirm , that all the priests and clergy-men that , are in the whole world , that either preach or teach to any sort of people for either tythes or money , or both , they are all guilty before the lord of that great sin of covetousness , and the love of money , which is the root of all evil ; besides many other great sins which they are guilty of in the sight of god : and the wicked and the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of god , nor any covetous man , who is an idolater , hath any inheritance in the kingdom of christ , or of god. read these scriptures , cor. . , . eph. . , , , . col. . . . heb. . . luke . . and whereas many of you clergy-men , and others , have falsly accused us , in saying , that we deny authority , and will not be subject nor obedient to authority , &c. to which i answer , not only for my self but in the behalf of my friends , who are in scorn called quakers ; and this i can certainly say , and declare unto all sorts of people , that we do really own and honour authority in our hearts , such who are men of truth , and hate covetousness , and all such as punish evil-doors , and incourage them that do well ; and all such magistrates as these i do believe are ordained and appointed of god to be a terror to the wicked , and them that do evil : and such are a means to hinder the wicked form acting such gross wickedness as many of them would do , if it were not for fear of an outward law , and of such magistrates as they know will punish them for their offences ; and such magistrates as those , that are a means for to incourage and strengthen people in doing that which is good , and to suppress vice , we are willing for to be subject and obedient to them in all things that are temporal , which is lawful and expedient to be done : and all those magistrates which now bear rule , or may hereafter come to bear rule amongst us , we can promise and ingage unto them , that we will never plot , nor contrive any evil thing against them , nor any of them , whereby to hurt or wrong them any manner of way : we shall never rise up in rebellion against any governour or government whatsoever , as to sight against them with any carnal weapon ; and if they should be su●fered to make laws against us , as many have done formerly , and command us to d●● at which we know is a sin against the lord , if we do it ; or if they should require any thing of us , which we cannot do for conscience sake , yet notwithstanding we shall not resist them by force of arms , but by the help of the lord , i hope , we shall be made willing by him for to give up our bodies and estates to suffer for christ's sake , whatsoever the lord may suffer them to do against us . and this the people of god did in all ages , that were and are faithful and obedient to him in what he manifested unto them ; as for instance , did not the rulers imprison peter and john , and afterwards they threatened to punish them , and commanded them , that they should not speak nor teach to any man in the name of jesus ; and they answered , and said unto them , whether it be right in the sight of god to hearken unto you more than unto god , judge ye ? and they said further , we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard : and they departed from the presence of the council , rejoycing that they were worthy to suffer shame for the name of christ ; and daily in the temple , and in every house where they came , they ceased not to teach and preach jesus christ . and the rulers , and chief priests and pharisees , and such like wicked people , persecuted many of the ministers of christ , and did imprison and abuse them exceedingly ; and some they killed , only for preaching the gospel , and speaking against their ungodly ways and evil practices which they lived and walked in ; yet notwithstanding they could not put them to silence by all their cruelties and persecutions which they inflicted upon them , neither could they hinder them that were living from preaching the gospel . and so it is good for every one of us to be faithful unto the lord in what he makes known unto us , and trust him , and be willing to give up to suffer for his sake , if he calls us thereunto , and he will appear in his own good time for our deliverance , out of all our troubles and tryals , both inward and outward , wherein we shall have cause to bless and praise the name of the lord , for his great love and kindness to us , who is worthy to have all the honour glory , praise and thanks ; for unto him alone it doth belong , both from me , and from all that know him experimentally , both now and for evermore . read these scriptures , 〈…〉 and chap. 〈…〉 . acts . & chap. . . vers . to the end . ac● . ● . vers . to the end . and now i shall men●ion something concerning false prophets , who they are , an● now they may be known , because such things have been cast upon 〈◊〉 that have spoken in our meetings , that they were false prophets , and if it were possible , they would deceive the very elect , &c. to which i answer , that there is not any person or people that live and walk in sin , and take pleasure and delight therein , and plead for a continuance in it 〈◊〉 term of life , and say , that there is none can be set free from sin in this life . that can witness any thing of their election by the working of christ's spirit in them ; and all such are deceived already by the deceitfulness of sin , which bears rule in the hearts of all the children of disobedience , who are disobedient to the light and spirit of christ in them ; and suell are in the broad way that leads to destruction , and are in the state of reprobation and condemnation : but the true prophets which the lord sent , prophesied freely , without either taking tythes or money , and they prophesied truly that which came to pass ; and they bore witness against the false prophets and false shepherds , that prophesied for money and hire ; as for instance , read isa . . . , . chap. . , . and isaiah was a true prophet , and sent of god , and he did ( as i may say ) comparatively , make as it were a proclamation , and saith , ho , every ●re that thirsteth , come ye to the waters , and he that hath no money , come ye , buy and eat ; yea , come buy wine and milk without money and without price . and he saith unto the people , wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread , and your labour for that which satisfieth not ; hearken diligently unto me , saith the lord , ( by that true prophet ) and eat ye that which is good , and let your soul delight it self in fatness . here people may see how the lord by his true prophet invites every one for to come to the waters , and buy and eat freely , that which is good for their souls , without money and without price ; and he exhorts them that they should not spend their money for that which is not bread , and their labour for that which would not satisfie their thirsty souls . and now the generality of people are spending and giving their money for that which is not the bread of life , neither will it satisfie any hungry thirsty soul that truly hungers and thirsts after the lord and his righteousness . and this true prophet called the false prophets and false shepherds , which spoke and prophesied for money , dumb dogs , greedy dogs , which can never have enough , and they all look to their own way , every one for his gain from his quarter : and he told them that they were blind and ignorant , and so they did not understand the things of god. and now if people be not wilfully blind and ignorant , you may see that there is as much difference between the true prophets of god , and the true ministers of christ , and the false prophets and false minstors , that either preach or prophesie for tythes , or money , or both , as there is betwixt light and darkness . and now i have something to propound unto all you clergy-men , before mentioned , which do profess , and say , that you are true believers and ministers of christ , and that you follow christ and his ministers for your example ; and that the scriptures are your rule and guide for to walk by ; first , where do ye find or read in all the holy scriptures of truth , that any of the ministers of christ ever went to any schools of outward learning , and staid several years there , and did commence from one degree of learning unto another , for to be made ministers of christ , as you clergy-men did , and do now ? and when you have been several years at such schools or colledges , until you think that you are artists , and are sufficient for to preach to people , then you get an order to preach : and so you come from those schools into the country , and inquire where there is a vacant place , where there is no ministers , and then you endeavour to get that place for to preach at , if you like their wages ; but if not , then you inquire for to get a better place , where there is most tythes or money , which is worth so much by the year ; and this is your call to your ministry ▪ but the true ministers of christ were never called nor made ministers after such a way and manner as yours is . and is not this way of yours , in being made ministers , like unto a man that binds his son to be an apprentice with a trades-man for several years to learn him his trade , and gives him so much money for so doing ; & when his time is expiered , his master gives him his indentures , and then he becomes a free man to set up his trade , and to trade for himself without any opposition ? but these clergy-men before mentioned , exceed all the trades-men in the world , that have any principle of honesty ruling in them ; for when an honest trades-man sells his commodity , he delivers it to them , ( or some for them ) that buys it and pays for it : but these covetous clergy-men aforesaid , sell their sermons for tythes , or money , or both , and keeps them still , and do not deliver them to those that pay for them : and when they have a mind to go to another town to preach , they may have some of their old sermons still for to preach to that people ; and if that people do not give them any money for that sermon , yet notwithstanding they are paid for it by their own hearers , which pay them so much every year for their preaching , which may amount to ten shillings , or more , for every sermon they preach throughout the whole year : did ever the ministers of christ do any such things as these ? and further , where do you find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ took either tythes or money for their preaching , or went to law with any sort of people , and took away their goods and chattels , and cast them into prisons for not paying of them tythes , or money for their preaching , as these ungodly covetous clergy-men have done unto as these many years , and still continues and goes on in these wicked ungodly practices against us , as is before mentioned ? and further , where do ye find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ , when they went to preach , took a text of other mens words , and from those words raised doctrines , reasons , motives , uses and applications , as you clergy-men do now ? and further , where do you find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ baptized infants , and had sureties to stand up for them , and to promise that they shall forsake the devil , and all his works , the vain pomp and glory of the world , with all covetous desires of the same , the carnal desires of the flesh , so that they will not follow nor be led by them . and all this the witnesses promise in the behalf of that child , or children that they stand up for ; and when the priest asketh those witnesses , whether they do forsake the devil and all his works , and all things above expressed , they say , that they do forsake them all ; which is a lye in the sight of god and his people . and these persons and people which do so promise and say as aforesaid , they are such as live and act in sin and evil , which is of the devil , who is the author of all sin and evil that is committed against god by all the sons and daughters of men in the fall , who are unregenerated , and not born again of the water and spirit of life : and these people which do thus say and promise , as aforesaid , they are such as do not believe that perfection from sin can be attained unto in this life ; and that none shall be set free from sin so long as they live in this world ; such as these take upon them to be called godfathers , and godmothers ; and the children which these people stand up for and promise so on their behalf , are taught to ask them blessing , and to call them godfathers and godmothers ; which thing is unwarrantable in the fight of god , the maker and creator of all mankind , and of all other creatures whatsoever . and how dare any people be so bold and wicked , as to take upon them for to be so called , as aforesaid ? and further , where do you find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ did marry any people , or did say prayers over the dead , or churched any women , as it is called ; and all these things the clergy-men aforesaid , do , and practice for money , besides their tithes and money for preaching . and further , where do ye find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the true bishops and ministers of christ , that were ordained and appointed by him , did assume to themselves , and did take upon them such high names and titles , as to be called lord and masters , as these bishops and clergy-men do ●ow ? and where do ye find or read in all the scriptures , ●●at timothy and titus were called lord bishops , which were true bishops , and ordained of god ? and where had they any bishopricks , and many hundreds of pounds by the year , as these bishops have now ? and are not these great names and titles , and these rich bishopricks , which they own and have gotten to themselves , contrary to the mind and will of god , and contrary to the practice of the true bishops which were ordained of the lord , and contrary to the scriptures , be not a means to beget them into pride and highmindedness , and self-exaltation , and not into humility and lowliness of heart ; so as to be gifted and qualified as the true bishops were , that were ordain'd of god ? and where do you find or read in all the scriptures , that ever any of the true prophets or ministers of christ were called master , as a name or title to set up self above the common sort of people ? and did not christ cry wo against all such that went in long robes , and had the uppermost room at feasts , and love greetings in the markets , and the chief seats in the synagogues , and are called of men rabbi , which is master ? and christ said unto his ministers , be not ye called masters , for one is your master , even christ , and ye are brethren ; and be that is the greatest among you , shall be your servant . and the apostle paul who was a true minister of christ , said , that though i be free from all men , yet i have made my self servant unto all , that i might gain the more . and so he was not called lord , nor master , as a flattering title amongst men , which upholds pride and highmindedness , as these bishops and clergy-men are now ? and did ever the ministers of christ demand ten shillings for a mortuary , and take it , as these clergy-men do now ? and further , where do you find or read in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ set people to sing david's psalms , which are put into rhime and meter , by hopkins and s●erhould , and others ? and whether they that sing david's psalms now , and are not in his state and condition that he was in , when he spoke those words , which are recorded in the book of psalms ? do not such sing lyes in hypocrisie , yea or nay ? for though those sayings were true in david , because he was in that condition which he spoke of at that time , when he spoke those words ; but those sayings are not true in them that know nothing of his condition ; for he was in several conditions , as may be seen in the book of psalms : and how can people sing so long as their souls are in captivity , and they themselves in bondage to sin ; and so people must come to know salvation and redemption wrought by christ in them from their sins and iniquities , before they can sing in truth ? and further , where do you find or read that the ministers of christ had a book of common-prayer , or a mass-book provided for them , for to read to people for money , as these clergy-men do now ? or where do ye find in all the scriptures , that any of the ministers of christ , or any other people , that were true believers and followers of christ , did ever read and say their prayers in a book , when the lord moved them by his holy spirit to pray unto him ; but they waited upon the lord until they were endued with power from on high ; and then they preached and prayed according as the lord by his spirit in them did help and assist them , and gave them utterance for to do and perform what the lord did require of them , as appertaining to the worship and service of god. and now i shall propound one thing more , which is of great concernment ; where do ye find or read in all the scriptures , that ever any of the ministers of christ , or any true christians or saints , who were true believers and followers of christ , that any of them did compel or demand any money of any sort of people , for mending and repairing those houses and places where the true ministers and people of god meet for to worship him in . and now i have something more to declare unto all that profess christianity , and salvation by christ , which do say and believe , that they are already saved , and redeemed , and justified by christ and his righteousness without them , although they be of that faith and perswasion , that they must live in sin as long as they live upon the earth ; and that none can be set free from sin in this life , &c. to which i answer ; that all that are of that faith and perswasion are deceived by the deceiver , and that faith and perswasion was never begotten by the lord , but by the evil one , who is the author of all sin and evil : for i do affirm , that all people that know christ spiritually and experimentally to be their saviour and redeemer , and that he hath already saved , and redeemed , and justified them ; then no such , persons nor 〈◊〉 will any more plead for sin , nor a continuance in 〈◊〉 term of life ; but all such people do believe that freedom from sin is to be attained unto in this life : and all such people that are truly saved , and redeemed , and justified by christ , as aforesaid , they hate sin and every appearance of it , in thoughts , words end actions , both in themselves , and in all others where they see sin 〈…〉 ed , acted and done against the lord ; but mark what followes , that before any can come to know experimentally that christ hath saved and redeemed , and justified them , they must first come to know sin to be mortified , killed , and destroyed in their hea●● by the working of the power , and spirit of christ in them ; and also they must come to know sanctification to be wrought in their hearts by the power of the lord in them , before that they can come to know , or to witness justification by christ , and his righteousness : for all that are or shall be truly saved and redeemed , and justified by christ , they are and shall be saved , and redeemed , and justified by christ from their sins , and from their iniquities ; but not in their sins , nor in their iniquities ; for christ jesus neither saves , nor redeems , nor justifieth any man or woman is their sins , but from their sins ; and whosoever he , she , or they are , that live and act in sin and evil , and takes pleasure and delight therein , and pleads for a continuance in sin term of life , and believes that there is none that can be set free from sin in this life their is no such persons nor people that are already say 〈◊〉 nor redeemed , not justified by christ and his righteousness . but some may object , and say , did not christ come to save sinners and to justifie 〈…〉 . it is true that he did so ; but he came not to save sinners in their sins , nor to justifie the ungodly in their ungodliness , but from their sins , and from their ungodliness ; as they in love and obedience to god came to forsake their sins and their ungodliness . and there is no man nor woman upon the earth that can know christ in truth , and experimentally to be their saviour and redeemer , and justifier , any further than he doth save , and redeem , and justifie them from their sins , and from their ungodliness , so as to mortifie and destroy sin in them . but some may say , that the righteousness of christ is imputed unto us . it is true , it is so unto his people , but the righteousness of christ is not imputed to any one that lives and walks in unrighteousness , and takes pleasure and delight therein ; read these scriptures , mat. . . tit. . . john . . rev. . . gal. . . psal . . . exod. . . and now whereas i have heard many people say , that the quakers religion is but a new upstart religion , and is but of a few years standing , &c. to which i answer ; that i can make it appear by sufficient grounds and reasons , that our religion and principles , and doctrine which we preach and hold forth unto all people where we come , it is of above sixteen hundred years standing ; and we are in the same faith , hope and belief of god and christ , and walk in the same light , life , and spirit of christ , and in the same way and practice , as to the worship of god , and christ and his ministers , and disciples did preach , and teach , and practice , and hold forth unto all people where they came , above sixteen hundred years ago . and now all you clergy-men aforesaid , that say you are ministers of christ , and the scriptures are your rule to walk by , answer all these things which are here laid to your charge by plain scriptures , without wresting or perverting any of them to a wrong sence , and answer in plainness , without your logick or syllogisms , or without using any of your hebrew , greek or latin , which any carnal earthly-minded men may have , that are brought up schollars at your schools , which are in capacity to learn humane learning , which may be bought for money . and so it appears plainly , both in the sight of god , and his people , by your wicked ungodly actions and practices , which you have done and acted both against the lord , his truth and people , that you have received nothing from god , as the true ministers of christ did , and doth row ; neither were you brought up at christ's school , nor never were taught of him , as the true ministers of christ were , and are now ; and so what you have you and your friends have bought with money ; and so you sell it again for money to those that are willing to be taught by you , which knows no better teaching , and so you are a means to bring up people that are your hearers , in darkness , blindness and ignorance , as you your selves are in ; and so you all live without the true knowledge and injoyment of god in this world : and so the people of the lord that are taught of him by his holy spirit , cannot for good conscience-sake buy any of your deceitful wares , nor cannot give you any tythes , nor money for preaching , which speak and preach against perfection from sin in this life , and say that none can be set free from sin in this life ; and so you deny the sufficiency of christ , and his commands , and your faith and belief stands in him who is the author of all sin and evil , which is the devil ; and so your speaking and preaching , as aforesaid , doth incourage and strengthen the wicked in their wickedness , and you are a means to beget them into unbelief , that they may believe as you do , that their is no perfection from sin in this life : and so neither you , nor they that are your hearers , do press after perfection , because you do not believe that such a good state and condition can be attained unto in this life ; and so your doctrine , and principles , and practices , are all quite contrary to the doctrines , and principles , and practices of christ and his ministers , and all true believers and followers of christ , and also quite contrary to the scriptures of truth in every thing that you do and practice concerning the worship of god , and therefore you are to be disowned and denyed by all good christians that truly fear the lord , and loves him in truth and in sincerity of heart ; and all your preaching and praying is abomination in the sight of the lord , and he will not hear nor answer the prayers of the wicked , that live and delight in sin and wickedness , and walk and act in such wicked wayes and practices as these clergy-men do now , which is all quite contrary to the 〈◊〉 way of god. and now i have something to mention and lay before you all , that are called christians , of all sorts of professions and religions , whether they be called quakers , or any other sort of professions or religions whatsoever , that do say , and believe that god is your father , and christ is your saviour ; i desire that every one would seriously weigh and consider their own ways and doings , and meditate and ponder the things of god in our own hearts and souls , that every one may come to see , and to know what assurance they have of the love of god to their immortal souls , and of their eternal and everlasting inheritance with the lord in his heavenly kingdom for evermore , when time here in this world shall come to an end with us all : for it is not a bare outward profession of any religion whatsoever that will avail any of us , as to our own souls true peace and happiness with the lord for ever , but it must be a real possession , and an enjoyment of the love of god in our own hearts , that doth avail and satisfie our souls , which no man nor woman upon the face of the earth can come to enjoy the love of god , and true peace and comfort in him , ( which is of more worth and value than all the outward enjoyments that are in the whole world ) so long as they live in sin , and take pleasure and delight therein : for god is pure , holy and righteous , and he is of purer eyes than to behold iniquity , as to allow of it in any one ; and without holiness no man nor woman can enjoy the love and presence of god to his soul's comfort and true satisfaction in him ; for it is not every one that saith lord , lord , that shall enter into the kingdom of heaven , but it is he and they , that do the will of god that shall enter into his kingdom : and it is not the hearers , nor the fair sayers , nor them that have but an outward knowledge of god , that shall be justified by the lord ; but it is the doers of the will of god , and them only that the lord will justifio , and speak peace unto their immortal souls . and so i desire that none would deceive their own souls , in thinking better of themselves then they are ; for the apostle paul saith , be not deceived , for god will not be mocked , for such as every one soweth , such must they reap , whether it be good or evil ▪ and now i appeal to the witness of god in every heart and conscience , of what name or religion soever you are of , whether you are come so far into the true christian life , as to believe and obey the first principle of the true christian religion ? and whether you are come so far into the life of truth , and into the practice of the holy scriptures , as to let your yea be yea , and your nay be nay , and do not alter nor change your minds and thoughts after you have said it , but let yea and nay stand after you have spoken it , and do and perform what you have said ? and so every one ought-to be watchful and careful how to speak and act , before they either speak or act , l●st they offend the lord by so doing ; for the apostle james saith , if any man among you seem to be religious , and brid●eth not his tongue , but deceiveth his own heart , this man's religion is vain . and whosoever they be that promise for to do such and such things , which are just and lawful to be done , and ought to be performed ; then if they that promise for to do such things , do not mind nor regard to perform their words and promises which they have spoken and promised , their religion is vain , let them profess what they will. for such men and women that make promises one to another , and do not mind nor regard to perform them , no such persons ought to be believed , nor trusted , nor to be confided in ; and such have not a true bridle for their tongues , and so their religion is vain and naught , and it is not the true christian religion ; read these scriptures , james . , . gal. . , . matth. . . and now i desire all civil , sober-minded people , that profess christianity , and the scriptures to be your rule , that you would be so moderate , as to read these scriptures herein set down , and compare these scriptures , and the holy lives and conversations of christ and his ministers , and them that were true believers and followers of christ , with the unholy lives and conversations of these clergy-men aforesaid ; and also their cruelties and persecutions against those that truly fear the lord ; and also their selfish covetous actions and practices which they do and practice for tythes and money , under pretence of being ministers of christ , and preachers of the gospel ; and if you do understand those scriptures in truth , as they are , and be not partial in your judgment , then you may see that there it as much difference betwixt the doctrine , and principles , and practices of christ and his ministers , and the doctrine , and principles , and practices of the clergy-men aforesaid , as there is betwixt light and darkness : and therefore i would not have you for to speak any evil against that way which you know not what it is ; but i would have you first for to try all things , and hold fast that which is good . selby in yorkshire , the th day of the third month , . thomas goodaire . the end . an epistle of consolation from the fresh springs of life, and flowings forth of the fathers love (through his servant) as a tender salutation extended to the whole flock and family of god; even to the lowest of his babes and servants, whose hearts are sincere and tender towards him: for their encouragement now in these suffering and trying times. by g.w. whitehead, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an epistle of consolation from the fresh springs of life, and flowings forth of the fathers love (through his servant) as a tender salutation extended to the whole flock and family of god; even to the lowest of his babes and servants, whose hearts are sincere and tender towards him: for their encouragement now in these suffering and trying times. by g.w. whitehead, george, ?- . p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. g. w. = george whitefield. at end of text: written in the white lion prison, london, in the d. of the th moneth, . g.w. w.m. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an epistle of consolation from the fresh springs of life , and flowings forth of the fathers love ( through his servant ) as a tender salutation extended to the whole flock and family of god ; even to the lowest of his babes and servants , whose hearts are sincere and tender towards him : for their encouragement now in these suffering and trying times . by g. w. o my dear and tenderly beloved friends , brethren , and sisters , from the greatest to the least in my fathers family , who are raised up by the power of an endless life , and begotten by the word of truth and life into a living faith and confidence in him who is our rock and refuge in all tryals , afflictions , and sufferings which we are exposed to , and undergo for the testimony of righteousness and a good conscience ; unto you , even unto you who are partakers of this heavenly calling , and whose hearts accordingly are set with a holy resolution for the glory and honour of our god therein , is my heart filled with love unutterable , which ariseth from the fresh springs of life and consolation made manifest from a living experience of the effectual power and work of god which hath given access into a heavenly habitation and sanctuary wherein his presence is enjoyed , in which the fulness of consolation and joy resideth for the righteous , and all such as wait upon the lord our god in his own e●ernal spirit of life and holiness , whose delight is to dwell with him in his mansion-house , which we have access into through the new and living way , which in the everlasting and unspeakable love of god in his own son is now made manifest , and the many veils seen thorow , by which this way and habitation was hid from us , whilst our minds were alienated from the lo●e and everlasting light of the lord god and his christ ; but now therein is life and salvation brought forth and come near to many , whose hearts are enclined towards him , and set to seek the fountain of life : and it is not the power of darkness , nor the enmity of the serpent or old dragon , nor the dark wrath of man that shall be able to hinder , obstruct , or frustrate the lord god in his proceeding in this his great work of righteousness , which by his mighty arm and power he will carry on and prosper , to the perfecting his own praise in his people , and as he hath glorified his everlasting name , and crowned his own seed with glory , victory , and tryumph thorow sufferings and tribulations , ( which glory and victory many in their own particulars are partakers of ) so he will glorifie and renown his name and seed thorow those tryals and sufferings , which yet remain to be fulfilled amongst his faithful witnessess , servants , and people who are called , and chosen , and faithful , being endued with the spirit , nature , and properties of his elect seed in which his soul delighteth , and with whom the pleasure of the lord shall prosper , and which shall out live the enmity , and reign over its adversaries and oppressors , though they ( for a time ) be permitted to appear with a high hand , and the wicked so highly to lift their horns up against the seed of the righteous ; and to attempt the rooting out of the faithful from amongst men ; yet we have no cause ( in any of these things ) to distrust the lord , or to be weakened in our confidence which he hath raised up in us ; for he is with us who is mighty to save , and his care , mercy , and tenderness is felt towards all that truly fear him , and obey his voice ; and of this i am a living witness , who from time to time upon the weighty consideration , and feeling of the goodness of our god , and largeness of his love to his people , have been and am filled with the sense of his presence and unspeakable glory over all that which would oppress or hurt , which cannot enter into the holy mountain , and in that glory and life received , is my heart and bowels of tender love enlarged towards all the upright in heart , who are come of a holy right seed , a●d sprung forth from a noble vine , and not only so , but in ho●y confidence , and stedfast resolution , are given up in the spirit of life , wisdom , and power , and of the fear of the lord , to follow him in the faith , patience , and suffering of his own faithful and elect seed , which you that abide in , shall never degenerate from the nature and innocency thereof , but know your victory and dominion therein over death and hell , where the gates threeof shall never be suffered to prevail against you ; for as in the faith and obedience you are given up in his will who hath called you , your habitation and security stands in his name and power , to which the righteous flie and retire in all their troubles and tribulatio●s , which though they be many , yet so many deliverances do they meet withall at his hand , who is our rock and refuge , whose salvation becomes as walls and bulwarks for the faithful . oh my dear friends both in the city of london , bristol , hartford , reading , colchester , and elsewhere in this nation of england , who for the tryal and exercise of your faith and patience thorow many tribulations and sufferings , and who more particularly at this day and time are under a deep tryal and exercise , [ the power of darkness and its instruments being permitted to afflict you , and to break your harmless and innocent meetings , and to hurry many of you into holes and prisons , ] and yet you retain so much tenderness in your spirits towards god ▪ and respect to his testimony and cause , that you dare not deny him , but must confess him and his truth and righteous testimony and worship before men , and for that cause have given your backs to the smiters , and exposed your selves to undergo the deep sufferings or penalties , that men may be permitted to inflict upon you ; and even to give up your lives for a prey , rather then the name of the lord should be dishonoured by you ; oh dear hearts hold fast your confidence and resolution in the name and power of the everlasting jehovah , in whom is your strength and safety , and keep within , and be retired in your minds when temptations or any discouragements would enter you to weaken any of your faith , for in the light and power of the god of jacob , a safe habitation is known , out of , and above all the troubles of the world , and the persecutions that we meet with in it , and in the secret pavilion of the almighty , and hiding places of the lord , the oppressed that wait upon him find a refuge in the time of trouble , and therein do see over all the blackness and darkness which hath covered the earth , in which the enmity worketh against the righteous seed , and do know a sweet repose in their deepest sufferings and tryals , and that well-spring of life is set open in them , which makes all easie to them , and sanctifies every state and condition of what tryal or exercise soever they meet with for the name of god or his testimony ; and herein joy , and peace , and everlasting glory and triumph is seen and felt by all the faithful and sincere in heart over all their oppressors . and that all you sincere hearted and tender friends , whose eyes are turned towards your maker , and whose faces are set sion-ward may be so retire in your minds to the principle of truth , and so watchful in the light of the lord , and to enjoy a peaceable habitation and sanctuary in him in all your sufferings , for this hath my soul travelled , waited , and breathed unto the god of my life and salvation , and that you all may feel your establishment and security in the life and covenant of the everlasting god , and in the enjoyment of the true communion and fellowship of the everlasting gospel , wherein every member of the body in that communion doth partake of the living bread in the fathers mansion-house , and therein become one bread to the strengthning , refreshing , consolating , and building up of one another in the most holy faith , which worketh by love , and which edifies the whole body throughout , which all that come truly to partake of and enjoy , 't is neither persecutions , nor tribulations , nor principalities , nor powers , nor thrones , nor dominions , that shall be able to separate them from the love of god in christ ; neither shall any rent or schism come within that bond of love or bundle of life , wherewith such are bound up together ; for they are such as have overcome by faith and patience , and have offered up all to the will of him that hath called them , and their name shall not be blotted out of the book of life , but be confessed before the heavenly father and his angels , in as much as they have confessed him and his son , and held forth his testimony , and not been ashamed thereof before men : and these are they that are so nearly related unto god in his own likeness and heavenly image , that they are his chosen ▪ refined , and precious jewels , never to be forgotten by him , nor separate from him , for they are as the apple of his eye , and engraven in the palms of his hands ; and such a remnant our god certainly hath in this nation , in whom i have seen that which my soul hath travelled for , and which hath been to my souls satisfaction , and as one having largely felt the lords presence , and still feeling the enjoyment of the same , and his glory to be the reward , as it is to those that minister relief to the oppressed , and bread to the hungry , for which many can bless the lord on our behalf i find the same living faith and confidence remaining in me , in behalf of the work of the lord , and the prosperity thereof as ever ; and this is the work that he hath made me and others of his faithful servants instruments in , which is so far brought to pass and effected by his mighty power , as all the powers of darkness hell , and death , shall never be able to undoe it , nor all the storms , tryals , or oppositions that ever we meet withall shall ever be able to disanull it , or put a stop to it ; for it shall prosper over the heads of all the adversaries and oppressers of the righteous seed ; and that testimony which we have stood up for in this nation shall never be extinguished , but be had in everlasting remembrance ; and this hath the lord sealed and confirmed unto my soul , so as it s neither imprisonment , nor exilement , nor death it self that i look out at ; but as to what the lord may suffer in these things i commit to him , as knowing a life in that faith that sees to the end of these things , and beyond the wrath of man and enmity of the wicked , which so highly is at work in our dayes , as had not the lord in a great measure put a limit and restraint thereto it would have extended to the taking away many of our lives , not onely by that covertly way of hard imprisonment , and lingering martyrdome therein , but also by speedy execution under pretence and colour of legal proceeding or justice ( so called ) on the persecutors part● ; and how far yet the lord may suffer the enmity to proceed in that case against any of us , his will be done ; and that i commit unto him who is the wise god as not being careful in it : but thus far i can say , that we must be willing to offer up our selves unto the deepest and utmost tryals , as required therein , to hold forth our testimony for our further manifestation , and both the righteous and the wicked shall be tryed in their way , and our god hath raised up a remnant whom he hath prepared and fitted to try those weapons and unrighteous decrees that are formed against the righteous seed , and they shall be tryed to the utmost , and broken thorow ; for no weapon formed against zion shall prosper , because the righteousness of her children is of the lord , who must have the glory in the deliverance of his own seed , and in the removing the rod of the oppressor , and breaking asunder the bands and cords of the wicked , who have taken counsel together against him and his anointed , whom he that sitteth in the heavens hath in derision in all their high and proud attempts against him and his seed , and their unrighteous designs and consultations , which would debar his annointed of his liberty in his people and followers ; but the king of zion is set upon his holy hill , who shall rule nations with a rod of iron , and break them as the vessels of a potter ; for power shall be given him over the nations , and he shall lay babylon utterly waste , and her noise , musick , pomp , and vain glory shall cease , in which she hath rejoyced over the saints and true witnesses , and followers of the lamb , and the slain in her the earth shall not cover , but disclose her blood , when the indignation of the lord breaks forth , and his vials of wrath comes to be emptied by his angels , and executioners of justice upon the seat of the beast ( that hath upheld babylon in her abominations , and them that have taken part with , and followed the beast ) and persecuting spirit . and our god is the same that ever he was to his own , and his promises fail not , but are now a fulfilling : and therefore o thou seed of jacob , and off-spring of israel , whom god hath chosen , fear thou not , nor be dismaid , for i am with thee , saith the lord ; i will strengthen thee , and help , and uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness , and all they that are insenced against thee , and they that strive with thee shall be ashamed and confounded , and shall be as nothing yea , they shall perish that war against thee : fear not thou worm jacob ; but arise in the power of the holy one ; for to thee it is given to thresh the mountains , with thy sharp threshing instrument , and to beat them small , and to make the hills as chaff , and thou shalt rejoyce in the lord ; and those that come of thee sha●l take root , and israel which prevaileth with god shall blossom , and bud , and fill the face of the world with fruit , and i will be as the dew unto him ; he shall grow as the lilly , and cast forth his roots as lebanon , saith the lord : what though if men be suffered to persecute , hurry about , exile , transport or transplant any of us who are of this seed ; yet they cannot hinder this from growing , nor the branches thereof from spreading over nations and kingdoms , because our god hath caused , and will yet cause his own seed to take deep root among nations and people , and will root out the uncircumcised before his plant . and thou , o zion , and church of the living god and suffering seed , who hast laid thy body as the ground , and as the street to them that went over , that thou mightest keep thy conscience clear , and not bow down thy soul for thy enemies to go over it ; the lord thy god that pleadeth the cause of his people , will give the cup of trembling and fury which thou hast drunk of into the hand of them that afflict thee ; therefore put on strength and courage in the lord thy god , and shine forth in thy brightness and beauty ; for he is with thee ▪ who hath laid thy foundations with saphires , and thy stones with fair colours , and he will adorne thy dwelling , and beautifie thy scituation , as with the most precious and pleasant stones , though thou hast been as one afflicted and tossed with tempests and troubles within and without , and whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake , and the gathering of the people , and the fulness of the gentiles shall be unto thee , and the sons of them that afflicted thee , and all them that have despised thee shall bow and bend before thee . o my dear friends who are come to a living faith concerning these things , and to know that seed , in which all the promises of god are , yea , and amen , dwell and abide therein ; and as you are called to bear a publick testimony for god , in order to the gathering of many unto the covenant of promise ; so be faithful in holding forth that testimony , though for it many be called to suffer in this day of tryal , and to offer up all for the sake thereof ; yet the lord being with us let us go on in his name , and by him make mention thereof , and vindicate his worship in spirit and truth ▪ which we suffer for , and in the power , authority , and counsel of god stand up for our just liberty therein before our persecutors , and judges , when we are called before them , and in the weighty and feeling spirit of life , friends to endeavour ( when called before their oppressors ) to fasten something upon their consciences , for the innocency of our cause , and when any of them are tryed in order to banishment , ( or the like ) that they may be so kept in the fear and counsel of god , having their spirits seasoned with his life , as they may be manifest in the consciences of both their persecutors and spectators ; and that it may be apparent that friends are in the name of the lord , which is above every earthly name ( how great soever ) and that in this name of our god we walk and suffer for obeying him , and assembling together singly and innocently in his way and worship , and suffer upon an innocent and conscientious account whatever otherwise men unrighteously pretend against us ; and this our suffering shall preach , and the gospel of the kingdom shall there thorow be witnessed and sounded forth to the gathering in of many into the love of that truth which we have received , though some that are unfaithful , and such as back-slide in heart shall be scattered and blown away with the storm ; but the faithful and upright , whose hearts are perfect towards god , he will shew himself strong on their behalf ; and they that follow the lamb whithersoever he goes , who through great tribulation have their garments washed in his blood , and who abide in the temple and habitation of the living god , serving him continually therein , the storm shall not be suffered to remove them , nor the heat to scorch them , but under the shadow of their souls beloved they shall sit down in peace , and the lamb shall feed them , and lead them unto the fountains of waters ; even so the lord god encompass all you his dear babes and spiritual off-spr●ng with the arme of power , and make you as a wa●ered garden , and surround you within the bounds of his salvation , and confound your enemies , and make their evil designs and intentions void and frustrate , that he alone may have the glory and preheminence amongst his people in this his day . from your dear brother and fellow sufferer who travels in spirit and waits in patience with the suffering seed for sions deliverance out of all her troubles , and ren●wn over all her enemies . g. w. w. m. written in the white lion prison , london . the d . of the th . moneth , . the end. truth's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men (called ministers) in the north. given forth by the light and power of god appearing in george fox and richard hubberthorn fox, george, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) truth's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men (called ministers) in the north. given forth by the light and power of god appearing in george fox and richard hubberthorn fox, george, - . hubberthorn, richard, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for tho: wayt at his house in the pavement in york., [s.l.] : . annotation on thomason copy: "decemb: th. :". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hubberthorn, richard, - -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth 's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men ( called ministers ) in the north. given forth by the light and power of god appearing in george fox and richard hubberthorn and they watched him , and sent forth spies , which should feign themselves just men , that they might take hold of his words , that so they might deliver him into the power and authority of the governours . luke . . printed for tho : wayt at his house in the pavement in york . . to all general professors of christ in the vvorld . what think ●e ! is it not yet time to cease from strife , but ye must be still beating your fellow servants , even when your master is at the door ! have ye not yet understood the parable of the tares and wheat , that they should grow together till the harvest , and now is not the harvest almost ripe ! hath not the wisdom of man had a long day of judging the righteous seed , but now that seed i● rising up to judg it : be silent then , and ceas● from man ● while , and thou shalt see his highest wisdom declared to be his greatest folly : what will it profit thee to resist the breathings forth of the spirit of righteousness in any ? will it not add fuel to that unquenchable fier , which already burns as an oven , tho it may be thou see it not yet . but as it was of old sayd , in the last days shall come scoffers , men which onely have a form of godliness , but deny and oppose the power where ever it appears ; 't is well if it happen not to this generation as it did in the days of noah , the preacher of righteousness , the world then being drowned in the sensual life , they could not hear nor understand , therefore the flood came and swept them away . he not high-minded but fear , for though ye have heaped to your selves many teachers , and clothed your selves with many forms of worship , yet these will not abide the ●ier , nor defend you from the iudgment that is coming upon you ; consider what a night of confusion is already upon you how are ye shattered and rent asunder , that you cannot give a tru account what ye are , or where you are ; this is the lords doing , that will spoil you of all your idols , and make you ashamed of your hard speeches against the innocent . cannot you be content to suck what sweet you can as long as you can out of the pride and vanityes of this world , but you must push with you horns the low and contemptibl● servants of christ , who through his mighty power is now raising up those valleys whereon himself will sit , in them , & with them , to judg that spirit in you , both quick and dead . divers queries of great importance , propounded by thomas atkinson of cartmall in lancashire , to gabriel camelford parson of stafley-chappel : with his answers to them . also , replies to the ansvvers , wherein is layd open the subtilty and deceit of the priest , and his invencions , snares , and baits , and false imaginations : discovered by the pure light of god , which hath shined in our hearts , and hath given us to see the darkness which he and the world live in , hating this light which hath appeared and enlightned every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . and all who are guided by this light , and have a pure eye opened in them , which is the light of the body , may see and discern the darkness , blindness , and ignorance of the priest . i have received many confused queries , which came from a dark minde , which would know the condicions of the apostles , or have another meaning to the scriptures , and that minde i do deny , for if thou have the spirit , that gave them forth , then thou wouldst witness us ; but as a serpént full of venom , hast thou shewed forth thy self , spuing forth thy venom , which must be turned into hell , who errest not knowing the scriptures , and the power of god. friend , in thy queries , thou askest thou dost not know what ; for some queries were sent to thee , and thou lookedst upon them to be frivelous and absurd things , so thou mayst look upon that which christ spoke , and the apostles , and the prophets , and say that is frivolous and absurd ; for they were given forth all by one spirit according to measure , as they ever did in that generation , they are so with thy frivolous and absurd minde , though thy frivolous and absurd minde ●●serve such things for thy ends . thou sayst they were condemned to the fier to be burned , which if they had , it would have been a figure to thy self , which nature could do no other , for they came to torment him and thee , who are for the fier , as it is written , the beast and the false prophet shall be turned into the fier : you might as well have condemned the scriptures to the fier . and i have received certain papers , in which there is confusion , which thou callest thy answers , and many confused queries , which hath come from a babylonian merchant , which hath sent some of his stuff to me , who art the scarlet-coloured beast , and the well-favoured harlot , proceeding from a confused minde , which art confused and come out of egypt , from a dark understanding in whom the prince of the ayer lodgeth , who maintainst the devils kingdom with all thy force and might , and power , as it doth appear , which would be satisfied , who art in the unreasonable nature , thy satisfaction must be death ; therefore for the simple ones sake have i freely let forth my self in a few answers and replies to thy unlearned and confused queries , questions and answers , that thy deceit might be discovered , and the power of truth known , and the simple ones directed , and god alone glorified . to all professed ministers , who have taken the title of ministers of the gospel of christ , who is the end of the law and the prophets , and shadows , which shadow him forth , a few questions to you who have taken this office upon you . querie . whether thou hast that light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world ( which light is christ ) yea or no. pr. answ . through grace and love displayed and shed abroad in my soul , i am able to say , that my beloved is mine , and i am his ; and therefore all he has is mine , at least for my advantage , his light as a prophet , and his love as a saviour is mine , and all to teach me and lead me to my fathers house , but thy inference thereon is absurd and foolish : thine do i say ? i mistook , the inference of thy master or scribe , for it is not thy hand-writing ; and in that i wonder , but that it is usual with you , how you can be so contradictory to your own principles ; for you generally charge others with speaking that which is not their own , and yet thou comest in the face of the congregation and givest that which is not thy own , thy self : for shame either deny your principles , or act and speak according to them . but to let that pass , thou proceedest with this inference ; if so , why dost thou deny and say that every one hath not that light to teach them and guide them to god ; is this a sufficient inference , that bececause i have it , therefore it must not be denied but that all have it ? let any , that god hath given an understanding to , judg ; surely god hath left you , you have even lost your common reason among you . a reply to the pr : an. thou sayst thou art able to say through grace , that thy beloved is thine , and thou art his ; so do the false prophets say , he saith it , jer. . . but thou knowest nothing of the beloved nor of jesus christ which is the beloved , nor through grace . thou sayst all that christ hath is thine , his light for thy prophet , his love as a saviour to guide thee to thy fathers house ; as a thief thou hast gotten the letter , jer. . . and a form which christ spoke , and that thou callest thine ; but ( thou enemy of christ ) thou neither knowest the light which is christ , that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , john . . that thou canst not witness according as the query was put to thee , nor the prophet , nor the fathers house , nor the saviour which the scripture speaks of ; but thy fathers house thou knowest , and thy beloved which is the god of the world , and thy imagined light which leads thee to thy fathers house , which we utterly deny , thee and thy fathers house , and thy beloved thou hast shewed , thy beloved is thine , which is thy lust for thy gift . qu. . whether your gospel be the same that the apostles preached ? and if it be , why go you to oxford and cambridg , when the apostle said the gospel he preached was not after man ▪ neither was he taught it by man , neither received he it from man , but by the revelation of jesus christ . priests answer . i shall speak as to my own particular , and this through grace i have to say , god hath carryed forth my spirit to preach and to declare christ , and him crucified , as the apostles preached , c●r . . and to declare the manner of gods giving this gift to sinners , as the apostles did , and that freely through grace rom. . . the doctrine of grace appears to be the doctrine of the gospel , gal. . , . compared with the . & . verses . and he that preacheth another gospel than this , is a perverter of the gospel of christ , and under the curse , though he seem to an angel from heaven , , . v. thy inference is , if it be so , why do you not live on the gospel ? i do live on the gospel , and that is thy trouble and grief it seems : but thou addest , when as it is said , freely ye have received , freely give , matth. . . if thou examinest well what is cited by thee , thou wouldst finde that this is principally spoken of healing the sick , cleansing the lepers , raising the dead , and casting out devils , which were things at that time more likely to get them money than preaching the gospel : but again , if thou wilt take no notice of that , but apply it wholly to the gift of preaching , this i say , that christ did even there approve that the labourer was worthy of his hire , luke ●● . , . a reply to the priests answer . thou sayst , that god hath carryed forth thy spirit to preach and declare christ , and him crucified , as the apostles preached ; i utterly deny thee to be any preacher of christ , or to know god or christ , or the word of god : and the apostles condicion thou knowest not , and the grace of god thou art an enemy to , and thou art one of them that crucisies christ ; matth. ● . ●● . wheresoever he is rising thou wouldst know him and crucifie him , who art giving thy exposicions upon the doctrine of christ , and wresting the scriptures to thy own destruction , gal. . . being unlearned ; and thou art he that preaches another gospel , which art a perverter of the gospel , which art cursed , as thou hast made it openly appear in thy queries : and thou speakest of angels from heaven , them thou knowest not . friend , thou sayst thou livest upon the gospel , but it is upon that which the apostles spoke ( the letter ) a declaracion , that is thy gospel , which was made manifest to the apostles , which is not to thee , and that thou livest on and tradest withall , as a thief and a robber , ier. . . and so deceivest poor people , who art a minister of the letter and not of the gospel : and thou sayst , that the labourer is worthy of his hier , but what pay did christ give to his labourers that he sent into his vineyard ? did not he say , they might have but a penny ? wilt thou be content with his wages ? o thou enemy to him , who art without god in the world , and thou h●st shewed that christ never sent thee to preach , therefore tho● knowest not his wages that he gives , but the devil he leads thee , and thou takest his hier , and he is thy master , for thou receivest the wages of unrighteousness , shewing thy self worse than balaam , who loves the wages of unrighteousness , iude . which wo was upon , who art without , perverting christs words , and wresting the scriptures , and like a thief wouldst be like one of them in thy words , but like the devil in thy practice ; and thou sayst , the doing of miracles , and the casting out devils , and raising the dead , were things at that time more like to get money than preaching the gospel ; o thou enemy of god! where dost thou finde any of the ministers of god that took money for working miracles ? simon magus would have bought the spirit to have wrought miracles withall ▪ but the gifts of god is not to be bought and sold for money , thou sellest thy carnal gifts , but thou & they must perish that do so , for it is your perishing minde , for thou canst not witness one of the gifts of god , nor of the miracles of christ , neither the dumb to speak nor the blinde to see , nor the deaf to hear , but art a silthy beast , wich art spued out from god , dead in thy sins and trespasses , ephes . ● . . and whereof thou wouldst have the scripture answer thee , thou art dead from hearing of them . query . whether you can give another meaning to the scriptures than they are , and whether the apostles did not give the right meaning to them , when they spoke them forth , or no , and if they did , what need learned men to give another meaning to them . priests answer . what a man can do is one thing , and what he doth or desires to do is another , if no man can give an exposition , besides the meaning of the scriptures , me thinks you should be quiet in that particular , and not spend your breath so vainly ; the same spirit of god that gave out the scriptures , being in the hearts of his chosen ones , doth instruct them to compare one scripture with another , and to give out the meaning of one scripture by another , and so it is not another meaning to the scripture , but their own meaning though covered and veyled , till cleared and opened : and yet thou goest on , and sayst , we give another meaning to them , which if thou canst charge me with , and make it good , spare me not , if not , this in the paper is of no validity , for it was given to me , but that the apostle's meaning was often dark to a weak eye , before expounded , thou must needs confess , if thou shalt but view two or three for a trial , and clear up the meaning of the apostle in rom. . . a reply to the priests answer . thou sayest , what a man can doe is one thing , and what hee doth or desires to doe , is another thing : here thou shewest thy selfe to bee compleat in thy selfe . and thou sayest , that no man can give an exposicion besides the meaning of the scriptures ; and thou thinkest we should be quiet : we cannot let thee be quiet , who livest in thy thinkings , and deceivest peeple with thy imaginacions , whom god is come to scatter , and god is against thee , who art giving exposicions upon the scriptures , and wouldst have them who live in the power of the scriptures , to let thee alone ; but thou art hee who wrests the scriptures , pet. . . who ever was denyed ; therefore thou art discovered to them who live in the power of them ; all scripture is vayled and covered from thee , and so thou wouldst give a meaning to them , and so under a colour make peeple beleeve it is the same meaning ; but thou art discovered , who sayst i charge thee , i can ; dost thou not say , the scriptures are dark , i charge thee to have spoken a ly , and art a lyar , and dost not see the scriptures at all , and all thy imaginacions of them are lies : thou sayst the scriptures are dark to a weak ey , here i charge thee to be a lyar before the living god ; the darknesse is in thy selfe , and not in the scriptures , luke . . . therefore thou dost wrest the scriptures , and dost make a ly upon them , and turnest them into a ly , ier. . . o thou enemy of god , tremble before him , thou hast nothing to doe with the scriptures . friend , thou wouldst have mee to vieu one scripture or two for a tryall ; the scriptures we know , but thou sayst they are dark , thou art full of darknesse , and they are as they speak ; he that can receive it , let him , he that hath an ear may heare what the spirit sayth : thou wouldest have me to give exposicions upon the scriptures as thou dost , whom the plagues are aded to , for as it is written , the plagues are added to ●h●m that addeth to the prophecy of this book , rev. . . and there is thy porcion ; but wee know the scriptures , and own them as they speak , but all thy expositions of them wee do deny , for with them thou dost bewitch the peeple , but the plagues of god will be poured upon thee , for thou dost neither know the scripture nor god , but art a lyar and of thy father the devil , iohn . . thou dost also bid me clear up the meaning of the apostle in the fift chapter to the romans , verse . so heer i charge thee again that thou dost wrest this scripture , for men of corrupt mindes do wrest them , and so thou art , but the scriptures are clear ; it is thy corrupt mind and heart that must be cleared : let the scriptures alone , thou hast nothing to do with them ; thou vayn man , dost thou talk of clearing up the scriptures who art full of filth and corrupcion ! woulst thou have that cleared which was spoken from the spirit of the lord ! thou blind hypocrit and pharisy , all peeple who walk in the light , may see how thou hast uttered forth thy folly , and record against thee . query . shew me by the scriptures where the ministers of christ ever took tythes , or augmentacions of the world . pr. answer . i shall answer but for my selfe , seeing the paper was sent to mee in particular : and my answer is , that i take no tythes , no nor augmentacions , from the world ; and that thou knowest well enough , but that thy kainish nature in thee , to use thy own expressions , hath made thee blind : it is not any augmentacion unlesse it have somthing added to what i had before : now thou knowst i have nothing besides it , nor before it , from any of you all : all i have is a gift from the state , and why may not i take a gift from the state ( call them the world or what thou wilt ) as well as george fox and james nayler take a gift from the world among you , i know not , but i would willingly be resolved in this . a reply to the priests answer , thou sayst , thou takest no tythes nor augmentations of the world , but thou confessest thou takest a gift , who goest in the way or balaam , for gifts and rewards , iude . and art in his generation , so art one of these filthy dreamers , which iude speaks of , therefore wo unto thee who shall perish in the gaynsaying of core. pet. . . o thou false accuser , where canst accuse either george fox or iames nailer of taking gifts of the world , as thou dost here , thou wouldst make them like thy self , and a colour for thy own filthiness , by accusing george fox and iames nailer , because they bear testimony unto the truth , and testifie against thee , and thy gift , that thy deeds are evil , and wouldst fetch up the apostles to maintain thee in thy filthiness , acts . . he did eat no mans bread for nought , and so coloured beast wouldst colour thy self with the apostles words , to maintain thy self in the generation of balaam , which the apostle cried wo against , and wo is thy portion , therefore own it , and there is thy resolve . priests second answer to the fourth query . besides , god hath said , the earth shall help the woman , and did the woman reject that help , because t is from the earth ? answer me . he hath said , kings shall be nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers to his people , shall gods people then refuse to take their fatherly and motherly kindness ? answer me , are we not to be thankfull , and take their refreshing as from gods hands , for , he stirs up their hearts to it , whosoever they be that do it ; paul did not run away and refuse kindness when it was offered him by the barbarians , acts . , . neither did he refuse a lodging from them , which no question was of some value . a reply to the priests answ . thou wouldst be answered whether the earth helpeth the woman yea or no. answ . yea , the earth doth help the woman against all such dragons as thou art ; the scripture we do witness is fulfilled , and kings and queens which are nursing fathers and mothers , thou art an enemy to , isai . . and knowest not , but as a thief hast gotten the words of the apostles , and so with them wouldst maintain thy gift : o thou blinde pharisee ! are these thy meanings that thou wilt give to the scripture with thy carnal minde to maintain thee , and to hold up thy carnal gift , and these things which christ forbids his to do so , who said , freely you have received , freely give , but here thou art not , and it shews that thou hast not received it freely , therefore thou sellest that which thou callest thy gift , which the apostles never did , cor. . . paul was not hired , when he was refreshed with the necessaries of the barbarians ; o thou enemy ! why dost thou accuse paul , and would make him like thy self ? let him alone , for thou knowest him not , nor his ministery , for he was a prisoner of the lord , a traveller of the sea , when the barbarians lodged him ; what is that to thee , to maintain thee to bear rule by thy means , which ieremy cryed against , ier. . . & holdest up the horrible filthy thing that is committed in the land , to justifie thee , to be a hierling , and to receive thy gift , and here thou hast openly shewed thy self to be an accuser of the apostle , and wouldst make him like balaam , like thy self : and would have the woman to help thee , and those are thy nursing fathers , kings and queens which hold up thy gift , which the prophet cryed wo against , but it is that fools may utter forth their folly , and be taken in their own snare , prov. . . here thou art answered , the beast that hath held up the false prophet , and the false prophet shall both into the fier : and thou sayst , thou dost not take gifts of the world , but if any prophet of the lord come among you , son or daughter , you shew your selves to be of the world , you shew your selves to be strikers , and of the devil , halling them out of the synagogues , matth. . . and to be no saints ▪ nor no church of god , nor no ministers of christ ; and here thou shewest thou takest of the world , and thy self to be a lyar , for thou never readest of any of the churches of god , if any of the world came in among them , that they halled them out and beat them , but it shews the effect of thy ministery and blasphemy , which sayth , ye are iews , and are not , but are synagogues of satan , rev. . . & . . we have found thee out and tryed thee . query . whether the plagues be not added to him , that adds to the prophecy of the things written in this book . priests answer . 't is tru , the spirit of god sayth so , rev. . , . i do believe it , yet again , the expounding and opening of it , by the light of the spirit of god given in , comparing it with other scriptures , is not that which brings the curse , for then the apostle himself would have been under it ▪ cor. . , . rom. . , . rom. . , , . for expounding it , wherein i have added or taken away is not yet discovered by any of you , and that is the waight of the business when thou didst write to me or any other ; the lord judg , and let all the lords people judg , whether he be not more apt by far to add to the prophecy of this book , who by his doctrine begetsi● slight esteem of the prophecy of this book , and perswades his hearers , that his words are as true as any scripture , and he cannot err , and therefore all is to be believed that he speaks , and not to be questioned , though many things are contrary to this prophecy ; than they that are so much blamed by them , and reproached dayly . a reply to the priests answer . thou sayst it is tru , that the spirit of god sayth , that the plagues are added to him that adds to the prophece of this book ; here thou speakest a lye ; thou sayst it is tru , the spirit of god sayth , he that adds or diminishes to the prophecy of the book , which hadst thou not seen the letter , then hadst known no spirit ; and because the letter sayth so , that is thy spirit , but as i finde thee adding , wresting and lying , i do see that the plagues are added to thee , by the same spirit that gave forth the scriptures , and of them thou knowest nothing , in that thou speakest a lye , in that thou sayst thou dost know it , for thou knowest it not to be a truth , though the letter speak it , as they swore the lord lived ▪ and swore falsly , jer. . ● . if thou didst , thou durst not add nor diminish : thou sayst comparing one scripture with another is not that which brings the curse , for then the apostle would have been under it , and so with thy corrupt minde dost accuse the apostle falsly , and wouldst make him like thy self : and who speaks of the scriptures fulfilling , which thou canst not witness , but makest a trade of them without thee , and wouldst have points and reasons of them , as thou wouldst have made a poynt of the resurrection in thy former writing , and here the plague of god is due to thee , and here i charge thee again , and here the fool is out of the truth , and the rod is for the back of the fool , prov. . . prov. . . and here is the scripture fulfilled upon thee , and thou sayst it is not discovered by any of us , whether thou addest or diminishest , here thou hast shewed thy self to be a lyar , thou hast been told both publickly and privately of it , and of thy deceit : and now seeing thou hast openly shewed thy self to be a lyar , here openly do i make thee manifest as a lyar , who wouldst justifie thy self in thy deceit , but thou harlot art made bare and discovered , nah. . , , . who hast sitten long under a colour , and here is the scripture is fulfilled upon thee , and the prophets words tru , we finde them fulfilled , prayses , prayses , be to the lord god of heaven and earth for ever , who gives his servants victory over the beast , and the false prophet , rev. . , , . such as thou art , who have been ensnared by thee , therefore we see that plagues are thy porcion ; thou sayst that plagues are the waight that we give thee , it is so , 't is thy due and porcion : thou sayst , the lord judg , and let all the lords people judg , cor. . . the lord doth judg , and the lord hath judged , and the lords people doth judg all such as thou art ; him that thou dost accuse , as to add to the prophecy in the book , he doth not , but witnesses it , thou having not the same witness canst not believe , and neither sees him nor the prophecy of the book , thou seest the outside of the letter with thy visible eye , as they did which saw the outside of the vision of daniel , dan. . . but we that do believe him , do believe his doctrine , not an outward testimony , but we have the witness in our selves which are one with him , and it doth witness that he hath the spirit of truth , which cannot err , but we do know thy spirit by the same spirit to be the spirit of error , and here thou wouldst not have the spirit of god to be believed on ; but here thou shewest thy self , that would question truth , for there is nothing in thee born up in thy understanding to receive truth withall ; here thou shewest thy self to be an open lyar , to say he acts contrary to the prophecy who is one with it , and bears testimony to it , and the truth of it , against all such false accusers , tim. . . as thou art , for false accusers should arise , tit. . . and here thou shewest thy self to be one , who accusest the spirit of the living god , to be more false than those that have the spirit of antichrist , who shall be consumed , and turned into the lake , by the brightness of his coming , thess . . . the mouth of the lord of hosts hath spoken it . query . what scripture have you that speaks of the word two sacraments , which you tell the people of , and what scripture have you to act such things . priests answer . certainly satan hath blinded your mindes , you would never have put forth such a question else , for the substancial word the lord iesus , that we preach , of him the scripture speaks every where ; and for the word , as the declaracion of the minde of god , in and by christ to poor sinners , the scriptures are plentifull , take two or three , iohn . . iohn . . iohn . . iohn . . iohn . . ephes . . . many more i might add , but that i have a check on my spirit , for gratifying your folly so far as i have done in this particular . a reply to the priests answer . in thy answer thou sayst that christ is the substancial word , thou sayst so , because the letter declares he is the word , but no other knowledg hast thou ; but this is no answer to the word two sacraments , for christ we know who is the word , but the word two sacraments , which there is no scripture for , which you tell people of , which is an addicion to the scripture , and a thing that never was practised among the saints , as thou being one with thy fellows that holdest up those things , the query was , what scripture you have to act such things ? but satan hath blinded your eys , cor. . . iohn ● . . which will not let you justifie those things which you act , which shews that you serve but an ill master , that will not bear you out , neither can you own the scriptures as they are , but you must give exposicions upon them , and poynts , and your imaginacions and conceivings , who would have the scripture cleared , but it is thy evil eye and minde that must be cleared , matth. . . for the scriptures are as they speak ; thou sayst the word you preach , ( alack for thee ! ) thou never knewst the word , if thou didst thou wouldst not speak of clearing up the scriptures , as in thy other queryes thou speakest of . query . what scripture hast thou to stand praying in the synagogues , before sermon and after , and where the apostles did so , or ever took a text to treat upon . priests answer . observe that place , matth. . . and thou shalt see that the thing christ ayms at is not so much the posture nor the place , but their end of praying in the synagogue , and that was to be seen of men , for he did not before nor after condemn the dutyes of fasting , praying , alms-deeds , but taught his disciples how to do the same things , though to avoyd the hypocrisie of others in doing of them ; and though another may be in the same place and posture as they were ▪ yet he may have other ends than they had , which thou canst not lightly judg of , as christ did , for christians in prayer with upright hearts are not bound up to any place , tim. . . and for praying in the publick meeting place , and among the assembly it was so common and usual , that the place even had its name from it , it was called the house of prayer , matth. . . isai . . and the hours of prayer were known by the apostles , acts . . and that it was so in the times of the gospel may be seen by pauls doctrine about it in the cor. . from the . to the . verse . and in cor. . , , . for the times of prayer before sermon and after , the apostle gives a general rule , cor. . . let all things be done to edifying : now what way is more edifying and building than for the servants of god to way● on the great builder god in christ , for help in the beginning of their work , and in the close after mercyes received , in speaking or hearing , to speak good of the name of our god in blessing ▪ and prayses ; the thankfull heart shall not want goodness from god ; but more fully the apostle is clear in it ; tim. ● . . that first of all prayers must be made , to begin with that , and that the thing is no● without example , to conclude our speech with prayer ; see that in acts . . this was likewise his manner in the close of his epistles , as may be seen in seven of his epistles , which i could never see in any of your letters , you like not prayer so well it seems . and after that comes in thy frivolous and simple question , this is all i see thy hand to , and therefore i call it thine . [ or ever took a text to treat on . ] i may well answer thee as christ did the saduces , thou errest , not knowing the scriptures ; for look acts . . whether philip took not a text to treat on to the eunuch out of isai ▪ . acts . . where peter took a text out of deut. . . & acts . . out of ex●d . . . and above all we have the example of christ in this , in his sermon luke . , . who took his text out of isai . . in the synagogue , and he took a book to reade it too , though i believe he had the scripture more in his heart than any of your teachers : thus having answered this query , i have one word to say to thee , or the inditer of it , before i go on , ▪ and that is this , you have in this to me discovered a profane spirit , that findes fault with our often seeking and calling on god , and blessing his name ; i am jealous that you are acted by the spirit of satan amongst you , ▪ you are so like those spoken of in the of mal. . , . reade , and god give you to understand it well , for to me it appears , that the spirit of god is quite of another nature , that says pray continually , and without ceasing , in every thing give thanks , ephes . . . thess . . , . it calls and encourages to the thing , psal . . . a reply to the priests answer . a scripture thou wrests to maintain the answer of it , in matth. . . christ bids his disciples pray not as the pharises did , for they prayed standing in the synagogues , but [ when thou prayest , enter into thy closet , and shut the door ; ] and here thou art a lyar of jesus christ , and pervertst his words , who took his disciples off from the customary praying of the pharises , and bade them not pray as they did , but thou goest about to maintain the pharises kingdom , which iesus christ cryed wo against , and wrests several scriptures to hold it up withall , which is nothing to thy purpose : and another scripture thou bringest , tim. . . [ he would that men pray every where , lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting : ] thou nor the world canst not witness this , nor your hands to be holy to lift up to god , therefore they are abomination , and is to be denyed ; the apostle to timothy did not bid him go stand praying in the synagogues , but thou wrests his words , to maintain thee in the chiefest place of the assembly , pharise like . another scripture thou bringest out of acts . . now peter and john went up together into the temple , at the hour of prayer , being the ninth hour . they were commanded to pray not as the pharises did , who went to shew forth christ iesus the substance , of all those types and figures which they lived in , ( all these scriptures will not maintain thee to hold up thy pharises seat ) they went to cry wo against them , and so do we now cry against thee , and thy beastical worship ; and here i charge thee in the presence of the lord to be an adder to the scripture , psal . . . and a wrester and a perverter of it , pe● . . . for thou canst not finde any of these scriptures thou bringest to hold thee up in thy pharise like worship , but ar● a rod for thy own back , and openly thou shewest thy self to be antichrist , and one that doth maintain the kingdom of the pharises : another scripture thou bringest , cor. . . and here i charge thee again to be a wrester of the scripture , let all people look upon the scripture , and see if it will maintain thee to have the chiefest place in ▪ the assemblies , and to stand praying before and after sermon ; here thou shewest thy self to be out of the commands of christ , and art disobedient to him , and he that doth pervert his words , and wrests the scripture ; o thou subtil twining serpent ! how fain wouldst thou have a place in the earthly letter , but there is no place nor corner for thee , but thou art found out and discovered , obad. . for the apostle which spoke to the corinthians spoke to them , to whom the end of the world was come , which were brethren , one had a psalm , another a doctrine , another a tongue , another a revelation , and another an interpretacion , that all things might be done to the edifying , cor. . . and they might speak one by one , and if any thing were revealed to him that stood by , the other should ●old his peace , that all things might be done to edifying , that god in all things might be glorified : but let all people consider how this scripture doth confirm thee , to have the chiefest place in the assemblyes , and to stand praying in the synagogues before and after sermon ; let all people see if thou be not a wrester of the scripture , and a perverter of the apostles words , and the condicions that the saints were in ; thou openly shewest thy self not to be in , and thy church not to be in the condicion as the corinthians were in , for they were a gathered people out of the world , but thou art without in the world , in the church of the pharises , who had the chiefest places in the assemblyes , matth. . . and so art an enemy to christ , here openly thou shewest it : thou speakest of wayting on the great builder god in christ ; dost thou speak of wayting upon god , who justifiest the seat of the pharises , who were enemies to christ , and teachest people to do so ? acts . . o thou enemy of righteousness , and full of subtilty , a childe of the devil ! i cannot but deal plainly with thee : thou speakest of the great builder , and wayting upon god in christ , and art a maintainer of the scribes and pharises kingdom , and art justifying them in their ways , and so doth teach babylon which is confusion : thou speakest of concluding thy speech with prayer , psal . . . thy prayers are abominacion , and so are thy conclusions of them , so long as thou walkest in the steps of the pharises , all thy blessings are cursed , and thy seed is corrupted , ●s mal. . and as he saw them then , so we see thee now in the same generacion by the same spirit as he did , the lord hath spoken it , and thou canst not hide thy self from him , prayses be to the lord god for ever , who hath discovered your abominacions : and friend , another scripture thou bringest , [ acts . . he kneeled down and prayed with them all , and they all wept sore , and fell upon his neck , and kissed him , sorrowing that they should see his face no more : ] o thou filthy beast ! what hast thou to do with this scripture , that art an hierling and takest the worlds gift , and without god in the world ? and this scripture , dost thou take him as an example to pray after thy beastly worship , which jesus christ forbad to stand praying in the synagogues ? and here again i charge thee before all the world to be a perverter of the scripture to thy own destruction , to whom the plagues of god are added , revel . . . thou speakest of the seven epistles of the apostle , which thou hast nothing to do withall , but as a busie fellow makest a trade upon them ; neither dost thou know the letters that are given forth by us now , which are given forth by the same spirit , which cannot be divided ; and thou art an accuser ; for if thou didst see our letters , thou mightst see the same as was in the apostles , but in the letters that are sent to thee , judgment is thy porcion , and that is given thee , shewing thy filthiness and abomination which thou livest in : the testimony of love to thy soul is plainess of speech : as for accusing us that we do not love prayer so well , here thou art an open blasphemer , but thy prayers we do deny , for they are abominacion to the lord , the prayers of the wicked are abominacion , psalm . . no prayers can we send to thee , but for thy destruction , thou man of sin , and enemy of christ ; whereas thou dost accuse us of erring , not knowing the scriptures , here thou hast taken christs words not knowing him nor the scripture , and wrests them all along , as thou hast discovered it , so thou makest thy self a lyar and a thief , taking christs words and accusing others with them who live in the life of them , for christ spoke that scripture as touching the resurrection , which thou wouldst have turned into a poynt , therefore to thee that scripture belongs , that thou errest not knowing them , nor the power of god , matth. . . as thou hast made it plainly appear : and thou bringest another scripture as concerning philip , thou sayst he took a text to treat upon , and here i charge thee to add to his words , philip did shew forth christ which was the substance , he finding him riding in his chariot ; and thou beast dost wrest this scripture and pervert it , and so takest a place of scripture and rais●st doctrines , poynts and uses , as thou callest them , and what thou conceivest and imaginest of it , and so sellest it for money , and so makest an hours talk of it , and art in one of these text a moneth , or more , and speakest thine own inventions of it . did they do so ? o thou blasphemer ! philip had not a set wages of him , but he was moved of the lord to go to the eunuch , when he was going to jerusalem to worship ; so if any were moved of the lord to come unto any of you , who are going to worship , and reading of the scripture , and should shew you the substance of it , such as thou art , would fall a raging , for it takes away your trade ; we do witness that which philip did , but we deny thee to be in philips place ▪ but onely antichrist like hath gotten his form , o thou enemy of all righteousness ! who hath wrested many scriptures , and perverted them to thine own way , acts . . to maintain thee in thy filthiness , and to make a cover for thee , but thou art discovered with all who are uncovered and stand naked before the lord god almighty : prayses be to him for him . and above all , thou sayst thou hast christ for an example , for taking a text , the words which christ spoke , he said it was fulfilled , luke . . isai . . and if thou take his words for an example , is thy text which thou speakest fulfilled ? then why dost thou ▪ ly so long in a text , christ said his was fulfilled that day , who said the lord had anoynted ▪ him to preach , luke . . which thou art not , nor ●anst witness ; and christ did not take it and raise doctrines , reasons , uses , tryals and motives , and have a set time , and a set wages , and preach out of it a moneth or more , as thou dost , but sayd it was fulfilled that day , which thou couldst never witness nor yet say : o thou impudent and brazen-faced ! how darest thou take christ for an example to maintain thee in thy silthiness ? christs words we own to be tru , and to be fulfilled , pray●ed be the lord for ever , which thou hast nothing to do with , but wrests them with thy corrupt carnal minde to thy own destruction , pet. . . but as the prophet did speak of the merchants of babylon , as thou art one of them in the mystery of witchcraft , and so with thy craft dost deceive simple ones , and the scriptures i know cannot err from that which gave it forth ▪ and thy spirit i know to be the spirit of errour , which is the same that ever deceived the nations , and we witness the scripture in our hearts as christ did . and as touching thy belief , we deny it , for thou neither believest christ nor us , for if thou wert of god tou would own us , as they sayd , who needed no man to teach them , but the anoynting , john . . but that thou art without , and in the world , an antithrist , and there i leave thee . whereas thou dost accuse us of a profane spirit , it is the profane minde and spirit in thee which judgest the spirit of truth so , because it doth shew that which the profane nature cannot bear : and whereas thou dost accuse , that we finde fault with your often calling and seeking to god , that is false , for we would have all to call upon the lord , while he is near , and to seek him while he may be found , isai . . and that is the intent of all our writing and printing , or coming to your steeple-houses , or coming abroad for your souls good , which you shall eternally witness , though ▪ your corrupt filthy mindes do reject it ; but thou hypocrite and pharise , and enemy of all righteousness ! all thy prayers we utterly deny , for they are abominacion to the lord , and all thy blessings are cursed , as in mal. . your praying in the synagogues as the pharises did , christ did deny , and we also do deny the same , and so will every one where christ is risen deny thee , and such as thou art , for he is but one , the same to day , yesterday , and for ever , whom thou art an enemy to , and in the generacion of them that ever were so : friend , thou sayst , thou art jealous that we are acted by a spirit of satan , and dost accuse us to be like those spoken of in mal. . these are thy companions eternally ; i witness it , and there thou art present now among them in the same nature , and one that walks out of the commands of god , as i have proved before , and out of the commands of christ , following thine imaginacions , and therefore are we all witnesses against thee , that thou art in the sorcery ▪ in the witchcraft , and in the adultery , and in the corrupt seed , whose blessings are cursed , the same light sees it now , and sees thee in the same generation : and whereas thou dost accuse us concerning prayer , thou gatherest many scriptures in thine imaginacions ; the saints prayed continually , and from them scriptures thou imitatest a form , and accusest us who live in the praying continually ; and to thee it cannot appear in thy carnal form , neither dost thou know our spirit , for it terrifies thee , nor the spirit of the apostle , and we do witness the condicion that the apostle speaks of praying continually , and in every thing giving thanks , thess . . . tim. . . but this thou canst not witness to be fulfilled , to that which should exercise thy conscience do i speak , which shall eternally witness we , for thou art dead , and the dead cannot prayse god , and that which should prayse god in thee is in the grave , and none in the grave can prayse him , isai . . and thy carnal minde in thee is limiting god in thy carnal form and custom , and with a pretence of thy prayers pharise like , which is but mocking god , and hatefull , and abominacion to him , and all who are of him , thy prayers and spirit will be denyed by them ; and thou accuser art without , in the world among the false accusers , tim. . . and thou must deny all thy prayers , and all thy customs , and all thy worship , and all thy imitated churches ▪ as thou callest them , and all thy praysings , and all the worlds ways before ever thou knowest god or us . qu. . shew me by the scriptures where the apostles went into the world , and gave the world david's psalms to sing in meeter ? these things that ye practis● , answer them by the scripture , or the apostles practise , without consequence and imaginacions . priests answer . that the apostles went into the world , that is , up and down in several parts of it , is clear by all their epistles . that the apostles commission from iesus christ in their going forth to preach to all nations , was this , [ teaching them to observe all whatsoever i have commanded you ] is as clear , matth. . . that the apostles were men that were under the same commands that were generally commanded of all men , cannot be denyed , and if so , then they were to teach this very lesson of singing psalms to the world where they went , see psal . . . & . . & . . & . . & . , , . & . . & . . now because you generally keep such work about this particular , but further least you should evade this , the new testament is not altogether silent in this case , for we reade of christ , that he sung a hymn with his disciples after supper , according to the manner of the iews at their feasts , which say some , was a part of the psalm , paul and silas sung in prison , and besides this paul observed the command of god in this particular , for he taught the churches this very thing , ephes . . , . ●ol . . . yea and the apostle iames declares the very extent of the command , iames . . holding it forth as a general duty without exception , he sayth , is any merry , let him sing psalms . for singing them in meeter , i would ask thee such a question , whether a truth in meeter holding forth the goodness , greatness , majesty , or mercy of god , do not remain a truth , instructing , comforting , edifying , as well as the same in prose . if so , the devil hath befooled you exceedingly , to make you so busie without cause as you are in this thing , and while you pretend for truth of one hand , you are beating down truth on the other hand publickly and visibly ; but besides this , the psalms were penned by the spirit of god , so no question they were directed to be sung in the temple , to that end david sent the psalms to the chief musician or master of the musick , to put them in meeter for singing , and gave them grave tunes to sing them forth in , for the hebrew psalms were sung in meeter in the temple , and in tunes invented , and what makes it worse now than it was heretofore ? god hath required the singing of psalms even of english men , as they are a part of the world , then to that end scripture-psalms which were themes and verses are translated into english psalms , which themes and verses in like sort that we might sing them : besides all this i would have thee to know , that we are not to live onely by examples , but by precepts , also now i have discovered general precepts for the practise of this ; and as we are to do it , so we are to do it spiritually , orderly , and most to edificacion , and so the general rule is cor. . , . the apostle in the verse specifies this particular of a psalm , now what can be more for edificacion , and decency , and order , than to follow that order that had been used so long before , with the approbacion of god himself ; hezekiah set the house of god in order , and this was one thing he did , he put the singing of davids psalms in order , as in the chron. . . and in chapter . . . god blames him not for it , but saith he , there is none like him from the days of solomon , and to this day the order is not contradicted by god , that i know , if thou knowest more discover it . last of all exception is taken , because they are given forth to the world ; any assembly of christians coming together to worship god are not bound up so close , but a company of the world may come in amongst them , and joyn with them in those things which are required of all men , as hearing the word , praying , or singing of psalms ; and christians are not to refrain because they are there , for this see that place cor. . , . now whatsoever thou judgest , i dare not , but judg that god hath some of his people in our meetings , that are christians indeed , and though there may be more of the world , i know not that this should be a ground to forbear that which all in the congregation are required to do ▪ viz ▪ to speak good of god. a reply to the priests answer . whereas thou goest about to maintain the singing of davids psalms in a meeter , and that the apostles did so , and went into the world to give to the world davids psalms to sing in a meeter , which david sayth , the dead cannot prayse the lord ; here i charge thee in the presence of the almighty god to be a perverter of scriptures and of the apostles words , and davids words ; and dost bring in a consequence to bring them into the same carnal invencion that thou art in , and wouldst make them like thy self : and thou bringest a scripture matth. . . that the apostles went into the world to give to the world davids psalms to sing in a meeter ; there is not a word in the scripture that christ sent his apostles into the world to give them davids psalms to sing in meeter , here thou accusest christ , and wouldst make him like thy self , and wouldst make the apostles like thy self ; here again i charge thee to be a wrester and a perverter of the scriptures : thou speakest of paul and silas singing , and them thou dost bring to confirm thy going into the world to give to the world davids psalms in a meeter ; here thou hast shewed forth thy blindness , sottishness , and ignorance ; paul and silas when they sung prayses to god they were in prison , which condicion thou never knewest ▪ and another scripture thou bringest concerning christ and his disciples , when they did sing an hymn , which thou art ignorant of , but art in the generacion of the pharises and priests that ●ought to put him to death , who hath gotten the form of his words , therefore as amos sayth , the songs of the temple shall be turned into houling , amos . thy songs and all your songs : another scripture thou bringest in the ephesians and colossians , to maintain thy beastly end , of going into the world , who are ignorant , and live in darkness , and giving them davids psalms in a meeter contrary to all the scripture , and the practise of all the saints , and wouldst compare the church who are gathered out of the world , the saints , to be like the world , and thy beastly worship , who sung with the spirit , and with understanding , and with grace , making melody to the lord in their hearts , cor. . . heb. . . but the world turns the grace of god into wantonness ; and how darest thou compare them with those that lives and dwels in the grace of god , and sings with grace and with the spirit ; but here thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance and blindness , and it is that fools may utter forth their folly , and that blinde guides might appear openly ; and here i charge thee again to wrest the scriptures : and david thou bringest for the justifying of thy going into the world , and giving them his psalms to sing in meeter , who sayd , sing unto the lord a new song , and none can sing a new song , but who are rede●med from the earth , rev. . . and who are not of the world ; and here thou art an adder , and the plagues are added to thee , therefore all thy consequence and songs we utterly deny , and thy vain imitacions : thou wouldst fain get a colour out of the apostles words to maintain thee in thy filthiness , but thy shelter is taken away , and thy coverings , and thou art discovered to be without , and not in the practise of the saints : friend , the singing with the spirit as they did we own , that singing in grace we own , and making melody to the lord in the heart we own , and the singing of a new song we own , and witness , as the saints did , but thy singing we do deny , and witness against it , glory , glory to the highest ! another scripture thou bringest to maintain the singing of davids psalms in meeter , that the apostle gave them to the ignorant world , which is iames . . where there is not a word in the scriptures for it , but he sayd . if any be merry , let him sing psalms , which he spoke to the saints , scattered abroad , and not to the world ; and there thou art a lyar of him , and a false accuser of him , the apostles sayd , they would sing with understanding , and here thou shewest that thou hast no understanding , nor no grace that thou livest in , it s not to be given to people that turn the grace of god into wantonness , and have no understanding in things that be eternal , nor of the saints condicions , that were gathered out of the world , here thou hast made thy self voyd of the knowledg of god , and of christ , and of the apostles , and all the saints ; thy meeter we do deny , and they who turned them into meeter are like thy self , therefore do we witness the beating down of all thy strong holds , and singing in meeter ; thou hast got another mans condicion into meeter , and all people i take to record , if thou shouldst see david roaring , quaking , and trembling , and water his bed with his tears ; psal . . . & ● . . & ● . ● . & . . and have this turned into a meeter , and get up into a pulpit among ignorant people , of beastical mindes , and then say , let us sing to the prayse and glory of god : let all people judg what thou justifiest ; and this is thy imitated singing , which is altogether to his dishonor , and this is thy psalm : but who are moved to sing with understanding , and making melody to the lord in their hearts , we own ; if it be in meeter we own it . o thou blinde hypocrite ! was david of the world when he did sing prayses ? and did david send his psalms to the chief musician to havo them put in meeter , and so to give them to the world ? thou neither knowest the example , nor the precept , which thou wouldst have us to know , nor david ; and all thy precepts we do deny , and that minde in thee which doth discover them , as thou sayst , which is thy own practise , and not the practise of the saints , for there is nothing proceeds out of thee , but what comes out of thy imaginacions and invencions ; but the precept which the scripture speaks of we know and witness , which thou art ignorant of , as thou makest it to appear ; and all those psalms which you have turned into an english meeter we deny , and such as thou art , who keep people in blinde forms and customs ; but the singing prayses to god as david did we own , and witness , psal. . . & . . which thou art without , and ignorant of , and an enemy to , and to them who witness the same condicion as he was in : and friend , another scripture thou bringest cor. . , . to maintain thee , that the apostle went into the world and gave them davids psalms in a meeter to sing ; and here i charge thee in the presence of the lord to wrest the scripture , and to add to the scripture , for the apostle spoke this not to the world , but he spoke to the brethren ; if thou wert not blinde thou mightst see it , the very letter declares it : o thou slanderous beast ! why dost thou slander the church of god , and would make them like the rude world , strikers & fighters ? ps . . . & . . but it is that thou mightst shew forth thy folly , blindness , sortishness , and ignorance ; thou hypocrite , if thou wouldst sing now as david did then , where is thy harp , lute , and thy loud symball ? here thou shewest thy self that thou art neither in davids condicion , nor the apostles , nor in the saints condicion , but art without , following thy own filthy imaginacions , living in the cursed nature , which holds up all these abominacions , and the abominable invencions of men , which god forbids : thou sayst , god hath required the singing of these psalms of english men , in this thou art a lyar ; o thou lyar ! god never commanded these psalms to be sung of english men which you have turned into a meeter , but they are your own invencions , and when you reade them hats you keep on , and when you sing them hats you put off , and here you worship the works of your own hands : thou sayst , you ought to do it spiritually , which is thy own invencion and applicacion , and thee and thy application we do deny , and there is nothing of the spirit born up in thy understanding to guide thee ; now here thou shewest to be in the same nature that the world is in , they say they ought to do such things , and doth not ; here thou shewest thy self to be one of them without , and not in the same minde the apostle was in , who sayd , we will sing with the spirit , and we will sing with understanding , and with grace ; but we do deny all thy imitacions : and ●riend , another scripture thou bringest to hold up giving to the world davids psalms to sing in meeter , chron. . . and here i charge thee in this scripture to be a lyar in the presence of the lord god almighty , and an adder to the scriptures , for they sang prayses to the lord who were brethren , that came to the house of the lord , as the scripture sayth , and hezekiah did not give them davids psalms to sing in meeter , which were enemies to god , but these did sing when the house was cleansed ; and this is nothing to thee to hold up thine abominacions , and to give the world davids psalms in meeter , but openly to all people hast thou shewed thy self ; thou sayst god blamed him not , there was none like him ; therefore thou mayst see thy self , he was not of the world , and here thou shewest thou dost not know the old covenant , and hastraced thy self out of them both , and hast made thy self stark blinde : thou sayst , to this day the order is not contradicted by god , did not steven witness and say , god doth not dwell in temples made with hands , acts . . and for witnessing forth the substance was stoned to death ; and the apostle paul witnessed against all the figures , types , and shadows , and all their customs , and outside observances , and all their offering , and contradicted that which god had commanded , when the everlasting offering was come , and against the outward temple ; but thou art blinde and canst not see it , pharise like , but thy minde is seen to be contradictory , who wouldst contradict the truth , and doth not see the end of god , in fulfilling his types and figures , and when they are fulfilled , he doth contradict them , and therefore do we contradict thee , which actest these things god never commanded ; that which god had commanded was contradicted , as circumcision , and the outward temple , and the sabboth , and all the priests were denyed , with them who had received iesus christ ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be a blinde pharise , which knowest not the precepts nor commands of god , but followest thy own imaginacions and thy own invencions , which i have charged thee withall formerly : and here i charge thee to be a blinde guide , matth. . . and therefore came the apostle to contradict all the jews , who held up the figures after the substance was come , but thou art blinde as the pharises were , and worse , for when the apostles had received the substance they contradicted the pharises , which held up the types and shadows , which god had commanded , and killed them that did witness the substance come ; but thou natural brute beast , who knowest nothing of god nor his truth , must be consumed by unquenchable sier : thou speakest of an assembly of christians coming together to worship god , but a company of the world may come and thou joynest with them , here thou shewest plainly that thy worship is no tru worship of god , for they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth , iohn . , . for such are they which he seeks to worship him , but not in the steeple-house ; the mighty day of the lord is coming , and god that made the world doth not dwell in temples made with hands , therefore come down thou painted beast which deceivest the people , god will overturn thee and thy worship , and all such as thou art ; and them who are of god god is sending them forth to give you the cup double that ye have given to them : thou sayst , an assembly of christians coming together to worship god are not bound up so close but a company of the world may come in and joyn with them ; here thou shewest that thy assembly are all of one spirit , and here thou shewest plainly that thy spirit and their spirit is the spirit of the world , and not the spirit that was in the apostles and saints , which sayd , what concord hath christ with belial , and what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness ? cor ▪ . . and here thou hast raced thy self out of the tru worship of god ; and i know thy spirit is not bound up , but it is at liberty in the world , in the broad way , and therefore with them it can joyn , and so here thou shewest thy self to be of a contrary spirit to them that preached the word ; the ministers of the word are not ministers of the letter , wherein it doth appear that thou art a minister of the letter , & a wrester of it ; those who are the ministers of the word speak forth freely , and testifie against such hierlings as thou art , ( who art bound up in thy form and set place ) and against all thy customary praying and singing , for the preaching of the word is to declare freely to all , it is not bound up , but such as thou wouldst limit it , who doth keep poor simple people in bondage under thee : i do believe god hath a people which is in captivity under thy dark imitated forms , and such as thine , and who are misled by such as thou art , for we were all under such blinde guides as thou art , until god of his infinite love did shew us his way , and his light , and your ways , therefore in the presence of the lord god do we testifie against all such practises as thine , and for the simple ones sakes , ( who are under such blinde guides as thou art ) do we let forth our selves , that they may see how such as thou bewitchest them , and keepest them from worshipping the living god , by thy imaginacions , gal. . . thou bringest a place cor. . , . to maintain singing of davids psalms in a meeter , but in that scripture there is no such thing in it : here again thou openly shewest thy self to be a perverter of the scriptures , and a wrester of it , what communion hath the believer with the unbeliever ? here thou shewest thy self to be one of babylon , full of confusion , and confused in thy words , contrary to the scripture , and a wrester of it , for the world knows not god by all its wisdom : thou sayst , that your congregacion is required to speak good of god ; o you generacion of vipers ! how can you being evil speak good things ? mat. . . here thou crossest christs words , thou wouldst have the generacion of vipers to speak good things , an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , how can you speak good of god , that speak nor good of his people ? the pharises when they met together , did they speak good of god , when they sayd christ was a devil , and gathered together with the chief priests , and sought to put him to death ? iohn . . and in this generacion thou art taking counsel against christ , and against his anoynted , incensing the rude multitude against them , and is this speaking good of god ? query . whether a man shall overcome the body of sin , while he ●● on the earth , yea or no ? priests answer . there are divers and several victories over sin , as first a victory over the dominion , and reigning power of sin , rom. . . this is not given by the power of man , but by the power of grace : there is a victory over the condemning presence of sin , sin cannot so hurt any elect vessel , as to throw him into ●ell , and eternal wrath and condemna●ion , rom. . . there is a victory over the being of sin in the flesh , and whatsoever curse thou sayest on me for the same , i must profess that i am of the minde , that victory ●s not fully enjoyed while we are on the earth , for then and not before , when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption , death is swallowed up in victory , cor. . . and the apostle cals the body of sin the body of death , rom. . . a reply to the priests answer . friend , thou bringest so many scriptures , which is to the throwing down of thy own self , as rom. . and thou desirest to be satisfied to the contrary to thy belief , for thou believest that man shall not be made free from sin as long as he is here , and here i will shew thee that thou hast a lying spirit , for in rom. . they sayd , they were made free from sin , for while they were servants of sin , they were made free from righteousness , and here thou shewest a contrary spirit to that which was in the apostle ; and thou desirest to be fully satisfied in those scriptures , in rom. . . . paul spoke his condicion that he was in to the saints , and what he had passed through , which yet thou art alive in the flesh , and not come to know the law of god ▪ therefore thy carnal minde rules and reigns in thee , and so thou art making a distinction in the apostles words , and wresting of them , who witnessed that there was no condemnacion to him that was in christ iesus , and witnessed the condicion under the law , and without the law , and was made free from the law through the law , which thou knowest not , so thou being a dead man canst not hear ; thou speakest of a victory and reigning power of sin , and yet in the conclusion of thy words thou speakest to the contrary again , and that thou art of that minde , that victory is not fully enjoyed while we are on the earth , and here thou speakest contrary to the scriptures , and there is a confusion in thy words ; for first thou sayst there is a victory and dominion ●ver the reigning power of sin , and then again thou denyest it , and here thou shewest babylon , for the apostle sayd , we are more than conq●●rours through him that loved us , and there is no condemnacion to them who are in christ iesus : another scripture thou wouldst be satisfied in , cor. . . the apostle did speak what he saw in this chapter which thou hast taken a word or two of , and we witness and see the same , yet death reigns in thee , and corruption reigns in thee , and the natural minde which doth despise the glory of god , therefore is this scripture hid from thine eys , but it is as it speaks , we witness it to be fulfilled ; and the apostle was in the condicion that he spoke of , for he witnessed the victory , and sayd , thanks be to god , who hath given us the victory through our lord iesus christ , cor. . , . and sayd , o death ! where is thy sting ? o grave ! where is thy victory ? rom. . . and thou hast raced out thy self from the apostles and from the saints condicions , and shewest that death yet hath dominion over thee , and that sin hath dominion over thee , and that the mortal hath dominion over the , and that corrupcions have dominion over thee , and that that thou art in the grave , and that victory cannot be witnessed , and art an enemy to it , and hast not so much as a belief in thee of overcoming of sin ; and here thou hast shewed thy hypocrites hope , as thou sayst , and so keepest poor people in death , in corruption , and in the mortal and carnal minde , and in the grave , and in unbelief , as thou art in thy self , and shewest that thou art damned openly , he that believeth not is condemned already , he that believeth is born of god , and doth not commit sin , but is passed from death to life . query . whether any natural man can preach the gospel , yea or no ? priests answer . i do believe they may preach the historical part of the gospel , i believe iudas did preach and was not behinde in his gift , to outward vie● of the eleven apostles , for the apostles had no ground to have any ill conceits of him , for had they , they would soon have reflected on him , when christ sayd , one of you shall betray me , but they questioned themselves and not him , matth. . , . and god gives great gifts many times to wicked men , rom . , , . cor. . , , . ministers of satan may be transformed into ministers of righteousness , gal. ● . . they cannot preach the mystery of the gospel nor christ , from their own experience or enjoyment , for this they know not , 't is folly to them , cor. . . a reply to the priests answer . here thou art pleading for the natural man , for iudas and the false apostles , and it is true , in that generacion thou art among them , and therefore thou must needs love thy own , and stand up for them , for no other generacion thou knowest , i am a witness against thee , and i know thee , and have tryed thy spirit , to be one of these false teachers , which wouldst transform thy self into an angel of light , and which dost intrude into these things thou never knewst , and so thou puffest up thy fleshly minde , there thou art , i witness thee there eternally by the eternal spirit : thou sayst , ministers of satan may be transformed into ministers of righteousness , cor. . . here thou wouldst make satan and righteousness one , and shewest forth thy error , not knowing the words as the apostle speaks ; and if they cannot preach the mystery of the gospel , how can they be transformed into righteousness ? for the ministers of satan transform themselves as the ministers of righteousness , but he doth not say , he transforms into it ▪ here thou shewest thy self to be a lyar , and thy self to be one of those who are no ministers of the gospel , getting the form , but denying the power , tim. . . which ever was to be turned away from , whose end is destruction according to their works , and so thou shewest all along that thou hast but onely the form of the apostles words , for thou pleadest for them who are without , and against those who are within , who are in the power and life of the truth , thou pleadest against the truth and the life which the apostles were in , and the life of the apostles , for the apostles did discern the false apostles , and those who did transform themselves , so with the same spirit we discern thee to be in the same generation among them , and there thou must own thy porcion , and own the scriptures to be tru , and thy porcion in it , which it speaks of to the false prophets and false apostles : another scripture thou bringest cor. ● . . thou bringest a scripture which sayth , the natural man receiveth not the things that be of the spirit of god , they are foolishness to him , that is thy own condi●ion , own that scripture for a truth to thy self , for the preaching of christ , and the cross is foolishness to thee , as it was to them that held up the iewish synagogues which yet thou holdest up ; another in imitation from the carnal letter , being carnal , and blinde , and ignorant of the mystery and of christ , and of the gospel ; but the mystery , and christ , and the gospel we witness and own , but we have not re●●ived it of man , neither were we taught it of man , but by the revelacion of iesus christ , gal. . . and we do witness forth the substance as the apostle did , and therefore we do deny all such as thou art , who art not so much as a minister of the letter , and hast not yet got the form of it to speak it tru as the form is , but thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance and foolishness of the form of the letter . query . whether the tree be not known by its fruits , yea or no ? priests answer . no question but it is , christ himself says so , but i pray thee tell me , did ever a good tree bring forth despe●a●ion for its fruit , it was cain that despaired , achitophel and iudas that went and hanged themselves : is that a good tree that brings forth wrath , strife , sedicion , heresie , cursings , and such like ? is that a good tree that brings forth fruits of disobedience , and slighting of those whom god hath commanded us to honour ? is that a good tree that hath for his fruits a casting by of the ordinances of god , and a slighting of , and reviling and reproaching the servants of god ? is that a good tree that hath apparant fruit on it , of justifying themselves , and condemning all that are not of their minde , how precious soever in the eys of god ? is that a good tree whose fruit is brought forth in satans dress , very like him , for if they once believe your opinions , the thing they look for is to tremble , iames . . a reply to the priests answer . here thou desirest to know whether a good tree brings forth desperation , as iudas , here thou accusest christ , for iudas denyed christ when he did despair , and christ found him out , so he doth thee , and all who deny the good tree , christ findes out now ; and all who do despair , deny the good ●ree as thou dost , who accusest christ now , as they did then , and cain when he slew his brother abel , then he despaired , when he slew the righteous seed , gen. . . and so are all you now in the generacion of cain , and god doth no more accept your sacrifice , than he did cains , who live in envy , and you are in the same desperacion who slay the righteous , as dayly may appear ; and in answer to this query , in that evil tree thou art , and bringst forth wrath and strife , for in this very answer thou hast shewed it , and shewed forth cain , and malice , and false accusacions , and ignorance : and in thy former query thou canst not witness the overcoming of sin , and is not sin of the devil ? and is not sin the cause of despair ? and is this the good tree ? and christ sayth , be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect , matth. . . and here thou shewest openly , that thou art that evil tree , which cannot bring forth good fruit , for he sayth , an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , nor a good tree bring forth evil fruit ; and this i witness fulfilled ; therefore i see thee , and discover thee , to be that fruitless tree , which art cursed , and for the fier : and again , thou pleadest for the honor of man , jesus christ sayth , how can ye believe that receive honor one of another , john . . and thou shewest thy self to be that evil tree , that casteth the ordinances of christ behinde thy back , and shewest thy self to be the reviler , and the reproacher of the servants of god ; for doth not christ say , they are called of men master , and have the chiefest places in the assemblies ▪ matth. ● . and art not thou there ? and he bids his ministers not to be as they were , and here thou shewest thy self to disobey the commands of christ , and to be the evil tree : because we deal plainly with thee , this thou callest reviling and reproaching ; we speak the words that christ himself spoke , which testifie against thee , who livest in thy filthiness , and with all thy might and main , wouldst hold it up against christ and his servants , and wouldst pervert his words , but the lamb hath got the victory ; prayses , prayses , be to the lord god almighty for ever , rev. . . thou askest if this be the good tree that justifies it self , thou hypocrite ! can a good tree condemn it self ? here thou wouldst not own it to be a righteous tree to bring forth good fruit , wouldst thou make a good tree to accuse it self ? here thou blasphemest and accusest christ , and he that doth witness this good tree doth witness against all who are not of the same minde , for all who are this good tree are of one minde , and of one soul , and of one heart ; and here thou hast showd forth thy ignorance , and thou art a false accuser , that a good tree can condemn that which is precious in the eys of god , here thou art an accuser and an enemy of righteousness , and knowest not what thou speakest , did ever christ condemn that which was precious in the eys of god , but nourished and cherished it ? but such a false hypocrite as thou art he condemns , and cryes wo against thee , who art got up into the chiefest place of the assemblyes , standst praying in the synagogues devouring widows houses , and painting thy self with other mens words , and so serpent l●ke , and here thou art a serpent , and the evil tree , blaspheming against christ which is the good tree , here thou shewest thy self to stand in the same place which christ cryed wo against , which called him a devil , as thou dost now , where he is made manifest ; thou believest there is a god , and here thou shewest thou art not come to the saith of devils , for the devils believe and tremble , iames . . and they condemn thee and thy faith ; and the power of god which makes to tremble thou knowest not , as the apostle when he came among the corinthians , he was with them in much trembling , cor. . . and thou mightst say the apostle was in the devils dress , when he trembled , for the same po●er of god that made him to tremble , the same power of god we witness now which makes us to tremble ; and here thou hast openly shewed thy self that thou dost not know the scriptures , but makest thy self manifest to be in the devils dress , and a blasphemer . and as touching opinions they are thy own , for opinions we do deny ; and here thou hast shewed that the power of god thou knowest not , nor never heardst his voyce , whose voyce shakes the earth ▪ psalm . . and shewest that thy wisdom is of the earth and earthly , and all thy gospel notions to be earthly , and all thy knowledg to be earthly , and all thy manifestacions and gifts ( as thou calst them ) to be earthly , for thou denyest the power of god which shakes the earth , psal . . . and so hast here shewed thy self to be in the natural state , and in the first birth , and as a fool hast uttered forth thy folly , shewing thy minde to be full of iniquity , and being the tree which beareth no fruit , which is cursed , hebr. . . query . whether a man shall grow up to that condicion under your ministry that he shall need none to teach him but the lord , yea or no ? priests answer . truly i do believe that god hath given so far many of his servants to grow up amongst us , as they see god alone the onely teacher of himself in all that is discovered by his servants , they know him to be the worker of all their works in them , that christ is all , and in all , the alpha and omega , the teacher of his fathers minde to us ; and yet notwithstanding i believe few are grown up to that desperate folly and madness , as when god hath afforded means of discovering his will & mind , to cast them all by , and ty god up to work immediatly without means , to humor their fancy , this is to tempt him , mat. . , . to confine him , which god cannot like , he will not take it long from proud flesh : i am perswaded the scripture you bring in , isai . ult . cease from man , will not serve your turn , for many prophets , and apostles , and men of god , taught after that , even by the command of god and christ ; besides you cry , cease from man , but you practise quite contrary , witness the running of many of you many miles to hear george fox ; and you use writings , and printings , which are outward means of teaching . a reply to the priests answer . here thou hast shewed forth presumption and lying , to say that many are grown up under your teaching to see god alone the onely teacher , and that christ is all in all , the alpha and omega , and thou thy self not to know the first principle , nor they whom thou teachest , heb. . . for if it were so , that they knew the second covenant , and the law of god written in their hearts , they would all deny thee , for it teacheth them to know god , and need not to say , know the lord , and needed not any man to teach them , who witnessed the anoynting , and need not any of thy carnal means , as thou talkest of , for the means that god doth teach his people , is by his spirit , gal. . . for they that did draw them from the spirit within them , bewitched them , and so dost thou , and they that drew them from the anoynting within them , bewitched them , and so dost thou , which tellest people of a carnal means ; so that scripture which thou bringest matth. . , . it is for thy self , for thou temptest christ , and wouldst have him to bow down to thy false worship , to thy carnal means , as the devil did christ , then own it and witness it , for it is thy condicion , herein thou hast shewed thy self to be a false prophet , sowing pillows under the peoples arm-holes , and flattering and keeping them in carnal security , and tellest them that christ is their teacher , when thou who art blinde and carnal art set up for a teacher , who makest a trade with the scriptures , and neither knowest christ nor the spirit , nor the teaching of christ , ( as thou speakest of ) and so keepest all people in blindness and ignorance from waiting upon christ : and friend , whereas thou dost accuse us of tying god up to work immediately , herein thou shewest that all that thou hast is but fancy , and lying in thy carnal state , who tempts god , and draws all others to tempt him , and shewest thy self void of all them that spoke forth the scriptures ; for all scriptures being given forth by the inspiracion of the spirit , and holy men spoke as they were moved by the holy ghost , was not all this immediate and eternal ; and here thou hast openly shewed thy self to be carnal , and not knowing them that gave forth the scriptures , and wouldst draw all others into the same carnal state with thee , and it is thou that wouldst ty up and dost ty up with thy carnal minde , and limit the holy one , as may appear by thy blindness and ignorance , and the people that thou teachest , who drawest them under the carnal form , and here thou hast denyed the immediate teaching of god , isai . , . which all the saints of god witnessed and followed the ways of , and all that ever know the lord , and here thou hast shewed that thou dost not know the lord , but livest in high blasphemyes , and in the state of the scribes and pharises , who professed god and abraham , but were of their father the devil , and there thou art in the same generacion doing the lusts of thy father the devil , who was ever an enemy to christ , as thou mayst reade thy self in the generacion of all them teachers , as thou hast openly shewed thy self : friend , it is thy own proud fleshly minde , that doth confine god , but thou art discoverd , and it shall not be long but thou shalt be more manifest to thy open shame , thou hast walked long enough under a cover , but now thy skirts are uncovered , and thy nakedness appears ; and a scripture thou bringst isai ▪ . . cease from man , which thou sayst will not serve our turn , but it doth serve our turn , for we own it , and witness it fulfilled , therefore do we cease from all men , which hold up the carnal means , which thou speakest of , and all hierlings , and all them that bear rule by their means , and all them that seek for their gain from their quarter , and all them that are called of men master , and hath the chief place in assemblyes , and all they that paynt themselves with other mens words , and all them that go in the way of cain and balaam for gifts and rewards , jude . and all those that have the form of godliness and not the power , and all those that wrest scripture to their own destruction , and give meanings and carnal senses upon it , and all such as lead ●illy women captive , ( which thou hast sayd to be us ) ever learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth , tim. . . for thou sayst , they shall never overcome as long as they are here ; and thou believest here ; but thou art one that livest in thy lust ; here thou hast shewed that thou art one that the prophets and servants of god cryed against , who were taught immediately by the spirit of god , and this was not after man , neither according to man ; the apostle sayd , the gospel that he preached was not after men , for he had not received it of man that taught it , all such we own , but all such as are in the way of man , as thou art , we utterly deny them , which holds up these abominacions , which all the prophets of god cryed against ; and here thou hast raced thy self out from among them all ; those that god sent and commanded , as thou sayst , since the prophet bade them cease from man , isai . . those were not made by the will of man , neither was their teaching according to man , but it was immediate & eternal , which thou knowst nothing of , as thou makest it appear ; and such we own ▪ but thee we do deny , for thou art blinde and knowst it not : and as touching the books , and writings , and printings , which thou accusest us of , and running so many miles ; the queen of the south came to hear the wisdom of solomon , and the prophets of the lord somtimes they were moved to speak against such as thou art , ( who livest in the abominacions ) and somtimes were moved to write , as one of the prophets did ; and here thou shewest thy self ●gnorant of the scripture , and envious against the same power , and the same eternal word which is now discovering your abominacions , as the word did then , so the eternal word doth now ; and thy minde being carnal and outward , looking up at things outward , and so thou shewest thou hast nothing eternal born up in thy understanding , and so thou lookest upon the same which we speak or give forth in writing , to be the same carnal minde that thou art in , and so thou judgest all the prophets , and christ , and the apostles , to be in the same carnal state as thou art , judging scripture according to thy carnal minde , cor. . . & . . and so to thee , truth is a savour unto death , as it was ever ; but wee are moved of the lord to write forth or to speak ; it is not an outward means as thou lookest upon , but it is to the conscience of every man , from that which is eternal to that which shall eternally witness it ; but thou art high up in thy hypocrisie , and hast mens persons in admiracion , because of advantage ( for the gift ; ) therefore it grieves thee to see the immediate and eternal teaching of the lord alone , who is teaching of his people , and guiding them up to himself by his spirit , whose sacrifice god doth accept , gen. . , who are in the second birth ; but thou art cain , and because thou seest the works of god , and god accepts not thy sacrifice , therefore thou shewest forth thy envy against the righteous seed in all thy words . query . whether they be not antichrists and do disobey christ , that have the chiefest place in the assemblyes , stand praying in the synagogues , called of men master , which things christ did forbid his to act , and cryed wo against them that acted such things ? priests answer . no question , what is against christ in the flesh is a part of antichrist , and to be destroyed , but as yet none of you all that i know have proved , that the uppermost seats in the synagogues were pulpits , there seats were more for honor than for service , that christ forbids and reproves , and these places were taken out of love to them : and for the title of master , i would to take off the offence , if that would do it , that all would agree to call me by my name , i take not the title in love of it , nor to have dominion by it , and the wo is against this , yet i know there were masters of the assemblyes , so called by as wise a man as any amongst you , for ought i know , eccles . . . a reply to the priests answer . in thy answer to this query , thou canst not justifie the chiefest place in the assemblyes , therefore thou must own the wo upon thee : and friend , thou bringst a scripture in eccles . . . to cross christs words , herein thou shewest to be a fighter against ●hrist for to maintain thy mastership , that thou mayst be a master of an assembly ; and here openly thou shewest thy self to be a pharise , and in the pharises state ; sayth christ , a greater than solomon is here : now thou hast shewed forth thy venom and ignorance indeed , and openly to act against christ , and openly to be an antichrist , and a pleader for the state of the pharises , and to contradict christ . thou sayst , no question but that which is against christ in the flesh is a part of antichrist , thou hast shewed thy self to be an actor against christ in the flesh , and an antichrist , and shewest that thou never knewst him in the flesh nor in the spirit , for he that walks in the spirit doth not fulfill the lusts of the flesh , but hath crucified them , and all things are become new , rom. . . but as thou sayst and dost believe , that a man shall never overcome as long as he is here , so shewing forth the old bottle , and what is within thee , matth. . . here is poured out , which neither knows god nor christ in the flesh nor in the spirit , but hast poured forth thy blasphemy against christ and his doctrine , and all who hold up his doctrine , and live in it , and love christ . query . whether those be not antichrists , and of the devil , and no ministers of christ , which do not abide in the doctrine of christ , yea or no , and which hold up those things christ forbad ? priests answer . thou strainest at a gnat , and swallowest a camel ; thou takest great care of mint and annis , and neglectest the weighty things of the law , who preachest up that which crist for bad , prove what thou speakest ; if thou darest trust god , as i desire to do , wait with me for the time that god shall discover , who abides with him and in his doctrine , and who doth not , so far as it is revealed and open . a reply to the priests answer . in thy answer to this query , thou sayst we strain at a gnat and swallow a camel , because we deny that which christ denyed ; who were called of men masters , as the pharises were , who strained at a gnat , and swallowed a camel ; matth. . . and thou mayst say that christ did so , for christ spoke against them who were called of men masters , and taught his not to be so , nor to call any man master , and here thou hast justified that which christ forbids : and thou dost accuse us that we do take care of mint and annis , because we say , whosoever abides not in the doctrine of christ is a devil ; and here thou hast shewed thy self that it is thou that takest care for those things that pass away , which christ did forbid : thou bidst me prove thee to preach that which christ did forbid ; here in thy very words thou preachest up that christ forbids and cryes wo against , and here i chargethee in the presence of the living god , who will render vengeance in flames of fie● ▪ jer. . . nah. . . and here thou hast shewed thy self to be in the doctrine of the pharises and of the devil , and accusest us with tything mint and annis , who art a lyar , for all those things you hold up , and we deny , and it is thou that dost justifie them ; dost thou not hold up these frivolous things ? the chiefest place in the assembly , and to be called of men master , laying heavy burdens upon the people , and stand praying in the synagogue , this thou strivest to hold up , which we deny ; the commands of christ thou callest them mint and annis , which is a ly ; and here thou wrests the scripture to thy own destruction ; i charge thee here , and have proved thee to preach that which christ forbad , and shut thee forth to be any minister of jesus christ eternally , or knowing any thing of him : thou wouldst have me to wait with thee , if i dare trust god ; i waited with thee too long , but thou art now revealed and discovered thou man of sin and son of perdicion , thess . . . who art exalted above all that called god , and thy doctrine is discovered , and the end of it , for it leades to perdicion , for out of the bottomless pit it came , and thither it must go : and in thy queryes thou desirest to know which is most like antichrist , and here thou shewest that thou dost not know antichrist , but we know thee to be antichrist , john . . and acting in those things which christ never commanded , contrary to christ , and yet thou professest thy self to be a minister of christ , and yet knowest not antichrist . query . whether they be not seducers that draw people from the anoynting within them , and tells them they must have a teacher without them , when as he who was a minister of the gospel sayd , you need no man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth , and the promise is to him that abideth in it , eternal life . priests answer . if thou canst prove and make good thy charge , that i draw people to look from the anoynting within them , to the teachers without them , spare me not , god hath taught me to instruct those whom i speak to , not to look on , or rest on the outward teacher , but to look unto the spirit of christ , the teacher even within them , where he is , to have that made out to them by his light and power that they here speak of , the ministers without , and that thy own conscience must needs convince thee of to be tru , unless thou art wilfully blind , which is , i fear , a judgment upon many of you : the lord make out & discover more & more , let it fall where it will , who are seducers of the people , and whether they be not so that teach & perswade people , that every man hath the anoynting in them , and a light that will lead them to heaven without any more ado : i am much mistaken if the preacher of the gospel that thou speakest of prove not the very thing in john . , , , . reade and consider , and god give thee to understand ; note what john sayth in that place cited by thee , john . . and you need not that any man teach you , but as , &c. in this to me , not quite taking off men from speaking and hearing , but onely from speaking and hearing what is not agreeable to the anoynting , men are to speak as the anoynting speaks , and then they are as the oracles of god , pet. . . a reply to the priests answer . thou wouldst have it proved , & have the charge made good , that thou drawest people from the anoynting within them to the teacher without them . i answer , thou dost openly shew that thou dost draw people from the anoynting within them , for he that is taught of the anoynting need not any man to teach him but as the anoynting , and he that sayd so did not bear rule by his means , as thou dost , and hast got the form of words , and mayst speak those words , but if any come to witness that they need not any man to teach them , heb. . , . as the saints did them , thou sayst , he denyes the means which god hath afforded , because they will not hold up thee , and justifie thee in thy beastly and carnal worship , and callest that tempting of god , and fancy , and desperate folly , when we come to witness the anoynting that they need no man to teach them ; herein thou hast shewed forth thy folly , and fancy , and desperate wickedness , foolishness , and madness , as balaam did when the dumb ass rebuked him : thou sayst , god hath taught thee , but thou art a thief and a lyar , and hast stollen the word , for thou denyest that which should teach thee , the light which god teacheth by , the light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . yet thou denyest the immediate teaching of god ; i charge thee , for if any witness to be taught alone with the anoynting , and deny all mens teaching but onely the immediate spirit , which all the men of god were taught by , that thou sayst is a tying up of god , and herein thou hast shewed forth thy self , that thou dost not know the immediat teaching , nor the anoynting , for those who are taught with the anoynting , do deny thee and all such as thou art . thou sayst , god hath taught thee to instruct others ; thou hast nothing from god to instruct others withall , but keepest them in thy immitated forms , and customs , dead and husky prayers , and what thou dost get with studying and devising of thy own brain , that thou feedest poor ignorant people withall , and sayst god instructeth thee ; here i charge thee to bee a lyar , and the wo was denounced against such as thou art : therfore we deny thee as the prophets of god denied them , for the same is made manifest to us now , which lets us see thee , as it did them then : prayses be to god for ever . friend , the light and power of god thou deniest , and art ignorant of , and that which should exercise thy conscience , for thou deniest the light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world : and why dost thou talk of the light and of the power of god , who art ignorant of the light , and disobedient to it ? but the god of this world hath blinded thy eyes , cor. . . and therfore thou endeavourest to keep others in the same heathenish nature thy selfe art in : wherfore to my conscience thou speakest nothing , nor canst speak to the conscience , for thou deniest the immediat teaching , and callest that a tying up of god , o thou blasphemer ! thou desirest to let the plagues and judgments fall where they will , upon them who are seducers ; thou needest not desire the plagues , for they are thy porcion , and here thou hast shewed thy selfe to be blind and ignorant indeed ; for thou dost not know a seducer , nor thy own condicion ; therfore thou art not fit to teach others . a question thou askest , whether they be not seducers , that teach and perswade peeple , that every one hath the anointing in them , a light that will lead them to heaven without any more ado ? answ . here thou shewest forth thy foolishness indeed ; for thou wouldst bring peeple forth into the doing the works of the flesh , into the broad way , which work is death , and the end of all thy ministry is to draw peeple from the anoynting , and from the light within them , and to draw them to thy teaching , wherby thou makest thy selfe manifest to be a seducer : all who do witness the anoynting , and walk in the light , iohn . . such thou lookest upon to be seducers , with thy dark mind , who canst not see them who draw peeple from thy dark ministry , to mind the light of god within them , as the apostle sayd , take heed to the light of god within you : and this thou dost look upon to be seducing , & that it is not sufficient for to guide them to heaven , but ▪ that they must come out from the light within them , to thy doing , which we deny , and all thy preaching practise , and invencion , which is witchcraft ; and here i charge thee to be a witch , and to bewitch the people . thou dost bring a place of scripture iohn . , , . which thou exhortest to read , which is a rod for thy own back , concerning you need no man to teach you but the anoynting : for many came out with us , but it is manifest they were not of us , because they did not continnue with us : but thou art uncome-forth , and thou knowest not this condicion , but art in the world among antichrists false prophets , and beasts ; and yet thou wouldst be busy among the saints condicions : but this i say to thee , all who are come out from among such as thou art , need not any man to teach them , but as the annoynting . but they who do not continu , they turn from the annoynting : and he that denieth the father and the son , is a lyar and an antichrist ; he that hath the son , hath the father also : therfore we do know thee to be antichrist , who should come . friend thou speakest of speaking and hearing what is not agreeable to the anoynting ; be silent , o flesh , for thou knowest nothing of the anoynting ; thou art one of those whose mouth must be stopt , thou art one of those dumb prophets , who hast nothing from the anoynting , but denyest it , but onely thou hast got the form of words to make a trade of it , and denyest the thing it self . query . whether they do not bewitch people , that draw them from the spirit within , to observe the ordinances of the world ? when as the apostle sayd , they did bewiteh you , that drew you to observe circumcision , which was the command of god , when he who was the substance of those types and figures was come . priests answer . the lord rebuke this lying spirit that is amongst you ; who is that which goeth to draw people from the spirit within to observe the ordinances of the world name them , and blame them : those that are lead by that spirit of god , and have him in good earnest , do make use of the ordinance of christ , in a more spiritual manner , not to draw them from the spirit , but but to draw them into the spirits likeness , possession and enjoyment , the lord rebuke that prophane spirit among you that dares to call the ordinances of christ the ordinances of the world , that cares not what dishonour you put on christ , his truth , his waies , his servants : the lord judg , and let all the lords people judg whose eyes are open , whether they do not bewitch poor creatures that carries them from beginning in the spirit to end in the flesh , gal. . . . from the gospell to the law , from justificacion by faith , to justificacion by works , from loving the appearance of god , to strife , malice , hatred , and to the appearance of sathan ; from peace , to a constant restlesnesse either in their own spirits , or outwardly troubling others , by writing , printing , bra●en-faced-rayling , and reproaching , without heeding whether they speak truth or a lye. a reply to the preists answer , thou art he that goes about to draw people from the spirit within them , to observe thy carnall tradicion , and imitacion , and to observe the ordinances of the world , and it is thy spirit which is that lying spirit which thou mencionest , which the lord will rebuke and must rebuke ; for thy lord and god i do deny , for the living lord god of heaven and earth , thou knowest not , no more than a naturall bruit beast jude . for thy god is the god of the world , and he is thy lord , and the lying spirit rules in thee , as thou hast made it to apear ; thou art he , therefore i name thee , and blame thee camelford , and the lord will blame thee and rebuke thee . freind , none of the ordinances of christ dost thou know , for all thy preaching is of thy selfe , christ never commanded it , nor never commanded thee , nor thy praying , nor thy singing , christ never conmanded it , but it is the invencion of thy brain , and the invencion of man , and to the ordinances of christ thou art an enimy : thou dost openly show thy selfe to be a witnesse against them who are the ministers of christ , and who abides in the ordinance of christ , that witnesse against such as thou art , but all the ordinances of christ iesus we witnesse and own , but thou to them art an enimy ▪ therfore thee and all thy ordinances do we deny , and all that which thou calst spirituall manners for this is but thy gloss and colour , that thou mayst appear beutifull with thy spirituall nocion , but thou art discovered ! praises be to the glorious lord god almighty for ever . thou sayst thou dost not draw them from the spirit , but drawst them into the spirits likenesse ; here thou hast made a graven immage , and the likenesse of a thing , and the lord forbids that thou shouldst make to thy self any graven immage , or the likenesse of any thing that is in heaven or in the earth , and here thou hast showed thy spirit to be a contrary spirit ; in this thou showest thy self to be a lyar , for thy worship is not so much as the likenesse of a spirit , for the spirit is one , and it we own , but thy likenesse of spirit we deny . thou sayest again , the lord rebuke that lying-spirit , and i say to thee , thy lord we deny , and the lord god of heaven and earth , doth now rebuke thee thou lying-spirit , for him thou knowest not , and calest it a lying-spirit , for thou prayest to thy lord to rebuke the spirit of truth , which shall confound thee and thy lord ; here thou hast shewed forth thy prophanesse , and blasphemy , and it is made manifest what god thou servest , even the god of the world . thou sayst , let the lord judg and all whose eyes are opened : the lord doth judg , and hath judged , and all the lords people doth judg whose eyes are opened , they judg thee and all such as thou art , in righteousnesse , and see thee clearly ; prayses be to the glorious lord god. the day from on high d●th spring . a question thou askest , whether they do not bewitch poor creatures , that turn them from beginning in the spirit , to end in the flesh ? ans : yea i say they do , and thou art one , for as thou saydst before in thy query , when thou askedst whether the light was sufficient to lead people to heaven without any more adoe , thou shewest all thy doings tend to draw people from the light , into the works of the flesh and from waiting to be justified in the spirit , and to lead them into condemnacion , and there thou art , one that bewitches the people , who know not the spirit , but those who are led and guided by the spirit and walk in it , deny thy freedom in the flesh , and thy liberty , and all thy carnall ordinances and tradicions , and it is thou that drawest people from the apostles doctrin , and from the law of god within , and from justificacion to the law of works , into thy carnal imitated way : but the law of faith , and the law of god , and the teachings of the spirit , this we witnesse and own , as that which the apostles was taught by , and by this we seek to bring all people from under thy carnall teaching , and we deny it all , and thee both . and whereas thou dost accuse us for drawing people from the appearance of god , to strife , mallice , envy , and hatred , and to the appearance of sathan ; herein thou hast shewed thy selfe to be a false accuser , tim. , ● . and a lyar , in saying we draw people from the appearances of god ; we draw people up to god , from wrath , and malice , and the appearace of sathan , for in wrath , malice , and envy , and strife thou livest in ; for who are drawn from thee , and the appearance ▪ of wrath , malice , and strife , lives in joy , and love , and unity onewith another : and as for what thou speakest of constant restlessenesse it is thy own , for all who are drawn from you are drawn into stedfastnesse , and the spirit of them that are drawn from you thou knowest not : thou who art restlesse and keepest all other in restlesnesse , ever learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth , tim. , . and therefore thou judgest them like thy self : and it seems our papers , and writings , and speakings do torment and trouble thee as ever the power of truth did the pharises ; for the prophet who was moved to write the roul , when he sent it to him unto whom it was directed , he burned it ; so doth writing now torment and trouble thee : and whereas thou accufest us of brazen-faced rayling , and reproaching , without heeding whether we speak truth or a lye : ans : all this state and condicion thou art in : brazen-faced thou art , for thou art a beast , and brazen-faced in uttering forth thy lyes , and thy railing , and thy venomous filthy speeches , and thou it is that dost not heed whether thou speakst truth or a lye ; for truth thou canst not speak , for thou canst do no otherwise , for thou art of thy father the devill who was a lyar from the begining , for the truth yet thou know●st not , but we speak the truth as it is in jesus , and lye not , and testifie to that which should excercise thy conscience cor. . . and eternally shall all you witnesse us ● cor though the lyng-spirit in you now judg the power of truth to be a lye , which ever the lying-spirit did , but thy spirit is tryed , and we know what thou art , an enimy to the truth , and without god in the world query . whether you have the same spirit as was in the apostles , and christ , and the prophets , which gave forth the scriptures , seeing you act contrary to the scriptures , and follow your own invencions and tradicions , and so have erred from them all . priests answer . the same spirit that christ had , the prophets , and apostles had , and the same have all that are christs ; there is but one spirit of light , truth , and peace in the body of christ , cor. . and all dispensacions are given forth by this one spirit . yer i do beleive this spirit is given forth in severall measures , and degrees , to the body of christ , ephes : , . cor : . from the verse to the . yea i do also beleive ; no man to this day , in the world , hath so full a measure of the spirit , as the penners of the scriptures had : they had the gift of toungs , and were by the spirit enabled to preach to any part of the world ; i do not know any that hath such a gift by the spirit ; they had a gift of healing the sick , and curing the lame in their bodily infirmities : i know non such , no not the perfectest among you ; they had by the spirit a gift of prophesie , which was tru , and came to passe : and though you have had those among you that have pretended to this , yet all that hath been , is but a discovery of that lying-spirit they were led by , enough to make you blush , but that you are brazen-faced : they erred not in discovering the minde of god to us ; i know none that can rightly boast of such a measure . i have taken the pains to answer thy queries particularly ; excuse it not , but answer me . i have propounded so again , that is particularly . the lord open your eyes , that what is of god , and truth , may fix on many of you , that you may escape out where the snare of satan is broken , and i shall rejoyce in my pains ▪ farewell . a reply to the priests ans : freind , here thou hast confessed that all hath the same spirit that are christs , and here is confusion in thy words , and thou shewest that thou canst not witness it thy self , but sayest others hath it thou dost beleive , and yet after , thou comest to deny it , and sayst no man in all the world , hath so full a measure of the spirit , as the penners of the scripture had ; and freind , here thou shewest thou hast not the same spirit that was in iesus , and he that hath not the same spirit is none of his , rom. . and it doth show , that thou readst the scripture with thy carnall minde ; and sayst , thou dost beleiv the spirit is given forth in severall measures , and degrees ; thou sayst it because the scripture sayth it , but thou knowest not christ , neither art thou a minester of him ; and the working , and operacion of the sp●rit , thou knowest not , as thou showedst it before , neither dost thou know the gift of god , but art querying the condicions of them that had received the gift , and afterward fell away , after they were made pertakers of the heavenly gift , which showes that thou knowest not the gift of god , nor art not made pertaker of it ( but art in the fall , and so showest forth thy ignorance ) for if thou wert made a pertaker of the heavenly gift thou wouldst leave of buying and selling the letter , and making merchandize of it rev. , . thou sayst , thou dost not know any one , that hath such a gift to preach in any part of the world , nor the gift of tongues , here thou shamest thy own profession in the natural state , and the natural preaching , and all thy fellows who profess tongues ▪ and your carnal original ; thou sayst thou knowest not any that are so gifted , to speak in all parts of the world ▪ here thou shewest thy self that christ never sent thee , for whom christ sent to preach , he sayd , go preach to all nations , to every creature , matth ▪ . . but he did not send them for gifts and rewards , for it was balaam that looked after such things , and in that generacion thou art , envying the righteous : thou sayst thou dost not know the same gift amongst us ; neither dost thou see it among the apostles ; for the same that was in the apostles , we witness , the blinde see , the deaf hear , the lame walk , and them that have layd long under such false physicians as thou art are cured , the dumb speak , and therefore thou ragest ( as thy example the pharises did ) and sons and daughrers prophecy , ioel . . but such were called mad men and fools by such as thou art in their genera●ion , who art out of the truth ; and whereas thou dost accuse that we have had such amongst us , as pretend to this prophecy , thou art a lyar , there is none pretends prophecy , and the lying spirit speaks in thee , and thou neither art ashamed , neither canst thou blush ; thou sayst thou dost not know such amongst us , therefore thou discoverest thy self , that thou knowst nothing ; thou deaf adder and serpent , who art full of cockatrices , psal . . . for if thou couldst see , but thou art blinde , thou mightst see the same gift amongst us as was among the apostles , for we witness the same by the same spirit , according to the operacion , but the lying spirit in thee can judg no otherways of truth it self but to be a lying spirit , for it is in the generacion of them that know nothing of the truth , for that spirit that we are led by thou knowest not ; for if thou wert led by the same spirit we should be one with thee : but friend , thy spirit is tryed and known to be the spirit of error ; thou sayst , the prophets erred not in declaring the minde of god to you ; thou knowest not the spirit that the prophets were guided by , nor thou knowest not the minde of god , though thou hast the outside , a declaracion which is to the visible eye without thee , but ▪ art in the generacion of them that could tell by the prophets words where christ should be born , yet they sought to put him to death , mark . . the chief priests , and so thou art one of them which is an enemy to christ , where he is born now , as they were them , and as iannes and iambres witstood moses , so dost thou resist the truth , out of a corrupt minde , in the state of iannes and iambres , out of the faith , a reprobate , as thou hast openly shewed it , but thou shalt proceed no farther , for thy folly is and shall be made manifest , tim. . . thou sayst , thou hast taken pains to answer these queries , thou hast wrested many scriptures , as it is made manifest , to maintain thee in the state of the pharises , and to maintain thee an enemy against christ , and to maintain thee to be one of balaams prophets , and to maintain thee to be one of the hierlings , and to justifie that which christ forbids , and to maintain thee to hold up that horrible filty thing that is committed in the land , and to bear rule by thy means , ier. . , . which the prophets cryed against , and with the prophets words , and christs words ; and with the apostles words thou wouldst shelter thy self , and make thy self a cover to maintain thee in thy filthiness ; but the lord god of power is coming to uncover thee , and lay thee more and more open , and make thee bare , that thy filthyness may appear , to the end that the simple ones who are in captivity under thy subtlety , and snare of iniquity , may be delivered , and peoples mindes directed unto god , that ●e alone may ▪ be exalted to whom be all prayse , honor , and glory for ever . and friend , thou sayst , that thou desirest that the lord would open our eys ; thou tempter of the lord , thy lord we deny , and thy prayers we deny , the lord hath opened our eys , prayse and glory be to him for ever , the lord hath opened our eys without thy prayers , matth. . . ( therefore we deny them , they are abominacion ) and contrary to thy means hath the lord opened our eys ? iohn . . neither is there any thing of god in thy answers , but thou and thy imaginacions are raced out for ever ; and all thy pains thou speakest of , are the works of thy own hands , which were ever cryed out against . thou desirest we may escape out of the snare of satan ▪ where it is broken , we have escaped out of thy snares where they are broken , psal . ● . . and therefore out of thy dominion , and from under thy power are we come , and see thee to be one that the devil ensnares , who art one of his souldiers , and not of christs , fighting for the devils kingdom , and fighting against the saints with thy carnal weapons , and against ●he lamb , but the lamb hath got the victory over the beast ; prayses , prayses be to the lord god ▪ almighty for every . amen . finis . queries sent by gabriel camelford , to the people who out of reproach and envy of the blinde and dark world are called quakers . answered by the spirit of the lord , which doth enlighten and shine in our hearts : and those that live in the pure light of god , and can reade with the spirit , may see him taken in his own snare , and condemned out of own mouth , and his deceits layd open . query . what is a reprobate ? cor. . . answer . whereas thou wouldst know what a reprobate is , thou art out of the truth , hated of god , a childe of the devil , an enemy of righteousness , the son of perdicion , in whom christ rules not , but the works of the flesh , who knows not the light that enlightneth every one that cometh into world , but denyes it and hates it . query . whether christ be in a reprobate to lead him to god ? answ . thou askest thou knowest not what , shall ever a reprobate enter to god ? jacob have i loved , esau have i hated ; and christ condemns the reprobate , and the reprobate hates the light , iohn . , . as thou dost , which shews forth the works of darkness , and there thou art a reprobate , and one that knows not the light that enlightneth every one that comes into the world , and this light shall condemn thee who keepest others in the same nature with thy fair glosses and colours which thou settest upon the scriptures , which must go into the lake , and into perdicion , who livest in thy filthy and fleshly imaginacions , which ever was cursed from god , psal . . . an enemy of righteousness , whom the lord according to his promise will scatter , who livest in thy imaginacious and conceivings , rom. . . and there thou art . query . if so , why are not all men brought to god ? answ . because they hate the light as thou dost , and lovest the darkness tather than the light , because thy deeds are evil ; dost thou profess thy self to be a minister of iesus christ , and queriest why all men are not brought to god ? here openly thou hast shewed thy self to be a hater of the light , for shame give over and blush . christ sayth , i am the light which enlightneth every one which cometh into the world , ioh. . . which thou art ignorant of ; he that loves the light , and walks in the light , there is no occasion of stumbling , but thou that hatest the light , thy deeds are evil , and therefore thou stumblest , iohn . , . and there is thy condemnacion , which is the light , and with such blinde guides as thou art are poor people lead from the light within them which should guide them to god , to hearken to thy imaginacions , and to fall down to thy images , but the plagues of god will be poured down upon ▪ the beast and the false prophet , deut. . . and thou art one which keepest people from god. query . whether any man hath power to resist in the day when he comes to draw the soul to himself ? a●sw . here thou shewest that thou dost not know the power of god , neither hast tasted of it , but standst in the power of satan , and dost resist and deny , but a day of power and vengeance , ier. . . will come upon thee , which thou shalt not be able to resist , though now thou art querying , and canst not tell whether man can resist or no : by thy query thou hast shewed forth thy subtlety serpent like ; the children of israel which had tasted of the mighty power of the lord , when they murmured they were destroyed , numb . . , . but this thou knewest not , but art shutting up the kingdom of heaven against men as these did , who were called of men masters , which stood praying in the synagogues , which christ cryed wo against , in matth. . reade thy porcion there , who hated christ , and there thou art ; for shame give over professing thy self to be a minister of god , who knowst not the power of god , but art querying whether any man can resist it , yea or no. query . who were they the apostle spake this word to ? ephes . . . answ . they were they that were made nigh by the bloud of christ , whom thou art an enemy to , and without god in the world , in the generacion of the pharises , and a childe of disobedience , light shines , and darkness doth not comprehend it : the god of the world hath blinded thy eys , rom. . . and thou hast shewed thy self to be a tempter . query . whether you dare own this as a truth , made out by the spirit of god in the apostle ? answ . we do witness in us what the apostle speaks , by the same spirit that was in the apostle , therefore we witness against thee , who hast nothing but the letter and the lying spirit to be thy witness , and we do witness what the apostle sayth , he that believeth hath the witness in himself , iohn . , . and this do we own , therefore tremble before the lord thou childe of the devil , psal . . . and blasphemer , and enemy of righteousness ; who art querying without . query . if so , whether your opinion is not contrary to truth , and so a ly ? answ . opinions we do deny , and here thou hast shewed forth thy dark minde , thou canst not witness that ever thou wert in the light , for darkness cannot comprehend it , iohn . . and there thou art , for thy minde is full of confusion and frivolousuess , and the lye speaks in thee , and there is nothing of truth born up in thy understanding , and that which should exercise thy conscience thou art an enemy to , and to the apostles life thou art an enemy , and knowst it not , though thou canst and dost make a trade of his words , and christs words , and the prophets words ; o thou false-hearted dissembling hypocrite ! the plagues of god are due to thee , and that is thy porcion , rev. . . query . whether there be not a time that men are darkness ? ephes . . . answ . thou art in darkness , and the man of sin is darkness , and the light shines in darkness , and thou dost not comprehend it , iohn . . thou hatest the light thou childe of darkness , and therefore thou art in darkness , which light shall condemn thee , iohn . . the righteousness of god is revealed upon thee in flames of fier , thou childe of disobedience . query . whether there be a possibility to hide christ the son of righteousness quite under a cloud , where he really is ? answ . thou enemy of god , thou dost hide the talent in thee under the clod of earth in thee , if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , pet. . . the ministers of god they speak to the spirits in prison , and the prisoners shall come out of prison ; art thou a teacher and shewest thy self to be so sottish , and to be ignorant of the form , and must be taught the letter ? therefore thou shewest thy ignorance , because the son of perdicion is above all that is called god in thee , thess . . . thou blinde hypocrite ! was not he in egypt while herod was king , and out of egypt have i called my son , sayth the lord : who hast thou preached all this while ? or who hath sent thee to preach ? here thou hast shewed that thou never knewst christ , nor christ never sent thee ; o thou dark dumb prophet ! thou wert speaking of the prophet , and of grace , which hath appeared to all men , tit. . , . which thou turnest into wantonness , for this grace is the saints teacher , those who are taught of it deny thee , and thou art one that keeps the light in prison in thee , and the devil is exalted above all that is called god in thee , who art for condemnacion and destruction , as it is written . query . whether the devil be stronger than christ , the flesh than the spirit ? or where dost thou finde he was ever a prisoner in satans chains ? answ . we witness that he was in satans chains , and is in thee , else how could they crucifie him afresh ? thou enemy of righteousness , who hast shewed forth thy ignorance , and thou art he that keeps him in them ; here thou shewest thy self to be ignorant of the letter , but art one of them that imprisons the truth ; christ sayth , i was in prison , and is kept in prison by thee , and ye visited me not , matth. . . the devil shall cast some of you into prison , rev. . . and christ sayth , saul why persecutest thou me ? and in that generacion thou art persecuting , but in all these things thou shewest thy self to be ignorant of the life and power within , but art querying without with thy busie minde , looking with the eye that cannot see , and hearkning with that ear which cannot hear , which shews that thou never knewst christ , but dost imprison him ; the same which discended did ascend , which sayd , he had overcome the world , iohn . . if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , but thou art he that quenches the spirit , and despisest prophecying , who lives in the lusts of the flesh , who art for destruction and the fier , doth not the letter say , he was taken from prison , from judgment , and was he not in prison when barnabas was delivered , when a company of rude fellows came from the high priests ( such as thou art ) to take him and lead him to prison , and he it is which is imprisoned still , the cause of it is , thou and such high priests as thou art , mark . . which stir up the rude company to bring him to the magistrate , and to the prison still , matth. . . o thou enemy of righteousness ! dost thou inquire whether christ was in prison , thou art born after the flesh , and persecutest him who is born after the spirit , here thou art answered . query . whether it be not a needless expression to speak of drawing the soul to christ , if christ be so near us as in us a teacher and leader already , iohn . . answ . thou enemy , the tempter and serpent , christ hath called thee to repentance , and thou hast been convinced with the light which is christ , but thou livest in the flesh and in the filthiness , in the mystery of iniquity , who wouldst have the scripture to be answered without thee , who art an enemy to the life that gave it forth , mark . . therefore to such as thou , and to thy generacion the wo was ever preached , for thou art one of them which was in the generacion of the pharises , who tempted christ , who were enemyes to him , though they professed the prophets words , and moses words , but thou art for destruction , and misery will be thy end . query ▪ whether it be not an improper speech of christ , to say , you will not come to me , when he is in them , and they in him before ? according to what you affirm . answ . thou blinde hypocrite and pharise , here thou hast shewed thy self to be a blinde guide indeed , that neither knows christ , nor the drawing of christ ; how darest thou say there is improperness in his speech , but it is that thou being an enemy of him mightst utter forth thy folly , who art one of them that will not come to him , that thou mightst have life , iohn . . but thou art seeking the outward letter , which is a testificacion of him , standing up in thy own imaginacions , and wouldst have the scripture answer thee ; so thou serpent wouldst have dust , but with imaginacions i will not feed thee ▪ but with judgment ( as it is written ) but thy minde i do deny , and to the spirit that is in prison i speak , pet. . . whom thou art an enemy to , and to thee the plagues of god are due . query . whether the time of dark natures power be not a night to the soul ? iohn . . answ . this is thy own condicion , thou needest not to have asked it , for thy soul thou knowest not , but the dark power reigns and rules in thee , therefore thou stumblest , because there is no light in thy understanding , john . . thou art in the night , and there is stumbling , and knowst not whither ▪ thou goost , one that hates the light , a childe of disobedience . query . whence it is that they that walk in the light stumble , if they have such a pure leading light in them . answ . thou stumblest in these queries , because thou art disobedient to the light , and hatest it , as others do , and these are frivolous queries that proceed from a frivolous minde , who bringest scriptures , and art ignorant , as a natural bruit beast made to be taken and destroyed ▪ ( as peter sayth ) now the evil nature in thee at this may rage , but in that generacion thou art , one that hateth the light , and stumbles and walks in darkness , and knowest not whither thou goest , john ● . . and here again thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the letter , and of christs words . query ● . whether the reason given by christ be a tru and solid reason , yea or no ? answ . thou with thy damnable doctrine wouldst compare christ like thy self , with thy filthy reason , who art one of the false prophets , who denyest the lord , therefore thou art questioning christs words , which shews thee a pharise , who did question christ ; thou enemy of god , where canst then accuse christ that he spoke unsolidly or unsoundly , or spoke a ly ? o thou busiminded fellow ! what hast thou to do to question christs words ? mark ● . ● . but thou shewest forth thy busie filthy minde , luke . . that thou mightst accuse him where he is made manifest ; thou pharise and hypocrite . query . if so , whether they that say every man hath a sufficient light , be not lyars and deceivers of the people , yea or no ? ans . here thou shewest thy self to be a deceiver openly , and all thou speakest is deceit , & from thy dark minde , that comprehends not the light that enlightens every one that comes into the world , who hates it stumbles at noon-day , john. . and there thou art , who hast put forth so many stumbling queries , and in that generacion thou art ; the same spirit is made manifest as was in the apostles which doth comprehend thee , who shalt eternally witness me , who cannot flatter thee ; and hast shewed thy self openly to be without the light of god in darkness , yet art pleading for it ▪ therefore thou makest christ a lyar and a deceiver , and art in that generacion that ever called him so ; iesus christ sayd , i am the light of the world which enlightens every one that comes into the world , iohn ● . . one he loves the light and walks in it , and there is no occasion of stumbling ; the other hates the light because his deeds are evil , and because it will reprove them , and this is the cond●mnacion of the world , and of thee . query . whether all men are lead by the spirit of god ? rom. , , . answ . no thou art not lead by the spirit of god , but art lead by the prince of darkness who rules in the children of disobedience , ephes . . ● . so thou art one that hatest the light , and quenchest the spirit , thess . . . crucifiest christ , and shewest thy self openly blinde ; dost thou profess thy self to be a minister of god , and queriest whether all be lead by the spirit ? here thou makest thy nakedness and foolishness appear . query . whether all men without exceptions are the sons of god ? answ . no , thou art not , nor none of thy flock , we know thee so to be , except ye be born again , iohn . . ye must first be born again , but thou art a childe of wrath and disobedience ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy natural birth , and as a bruit beast which iude speaks of , iude . and this must thou own before thou knowst what it is to be a son or servant , which yet thou art an enemy to . query . whether the preaching of the gospel be not a spiritual husbandry and warfare ? cor. ● . , , . answ . we do witness the preaching of the gospel to be a spiritual warfare and husbandry , to pluck up such fruitless trees and briars and thorns as thou art which cumber the ground , cor. . . and to war against such pharises as thou art , which hath long stood in the vineyard cumbring the ground , whose fruit stinks , as it is written , every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewen down and cast into the fier , matth. . . which thou art one , and the cursed fig-tree , so the warfare is against such as thou art , who livest in spiritual wickedness , which christ cryed wo against , matth. . . that had the chiefest places in the assemblyes , matth. , and there is the war that wars against such as thou art . query . whether men go to war at their own cost . cor. . . answ : a query out of the scripture thou bringest , who goeth a warfare at his own charge , but the same apostle sayd , he did use none of these things , neither have i written these things , that it should be so done unto me , i preach the gospel , i have nothing to glory of ; wo is unto me if i preach not the gospel , cor. . . thou wrestest his words , to maintain thy gifts , and thou hast planted no vineyard , nor never wast in the warfare , and art not come to know it , and the flock the apostle speaks of , thou knowest not , but art an enimy to it ; neither knowest thou the milk that was given to the flock , but thou art one of them that fayl with thy feet , ezek : . . that hast nothing but the husk , which is fit for nothing but the swine , but as a theif wouldst be up in the apostles condicion . the apostl spoke the truth , which thou art out of , and to the flock he spoke of it , and the vineyard thou art an enimy to , and that with all thy power and might , wouldst wrest the scripture : but thou art thrust out , and discovered , with them who are within and seen by us , and so , i bid thee farewell ; unto perdicion thou must go . query . whether the apostles did not give a tru exposicion , of the ▪ verse in the forecited ●hapter , and in the verse ; and if so , then he that plougheth , and thresheth , may do it in hope , and expectacion of outward preservacion in his labour ; not to have his mouth muzelled . answ : thou wouldst not have thy mouth muzeled , the mouth of the false prophets must be stopped , as the apostle saith , evil beasts , slow-b●llies , whose mouths must be stopped , tit. . . and thou art one of them who takes the apostles words for thy carnal ends , and wouldst have exposicions upon his words , who perverts his words , and sayst , he gave exposicions , who spoke plainly , and thou showest thy self to be one of them that the apostle spoke unto query . whether there be not the same equity that those that wait on the gospell should have maintenance , as well as those that wayted on the temple , and on the altar . aensw : they that waited on the altar , lived upon the altar , and they that preached the gospel , lived on the gospel , cor. ▪ . but repent , thou knowest neither , but art a deceiver , and makest a trade upon the scripture , but praised be the lord god , who hath given a light to discover thee , and to draw from under thy bands , for thou neither waitest upon the altar , nor canst not witness the gospel , but only that scripture thou bringest to maintain thy gift , which thou confessest thou receivest : worse then balaam , pet. . . query . whether the ordinances of christ in this be out of date , yea or no ? answ : christ is the same he was , where he is made manifest , and his ordinances the same , but thou art one that dost deny them , and disobey them ; did not christ command his whom he made teachers , mat. . . . that they should not be called of men masters ? and that they would not have the cheifest place in the assemblies ? for they were all brethren . come down thou painted beast , and proud pharisy , who ever wast an enimy of christ . wo is thy porcion , for thou art out of date with them , for thou dost not observe them . query . whether simply taking of wages make a hierling yea ▪ ●r no ? answ : thou robest the world , whereas the apostle saith , he robed the churches , cor. . and thou robst the world , for the church of god is the ground and pillar of truth ▪ tim. . . thou blind sot , and coloured beast , doth not wages make a hyerling ; thou canst not deny but thou art an hyerling : thou receivest a gift , balaams wages of unrighteousness , therefore wo is thy porcion . vvhat hast thou to do with the apostles ? who spoke against gifts . query if so , how could paul be excused from being a hierling , he taking wages as well as others ? answ : art thou as paul was ? or wouldst thou make him like thy self ? who robest the world , and he took of other churches . o thou filthy beast ! who slanderest the church of christ , and the apostles with thy filthy minde , who wouldst make the apostle an hyerling , like thy self , who hast nothing to do with the apostle , nor the church of christ ▪ but as a filthy fellow , thou makest a trade upon the letter , and other mens condicions , to deceive withall ; but thou art discovered to be worse than balaam , who denyed the gift of baalack , though he loved it , num. . . but all thy pleading , and querying , is for the gift , showing thy self to be worse than balaam . query . whether the worlds wages doth not imply some kinde of contract between them yea , or no ? because he had wages of other churches , for preaching to those of corinth , phil. . . answ : thou askest , whether paul did well or no , in receiving a gift of the phillipians ; thou wrestest his words in saying he received a gift , for saith he , in the scripture , not because i desire a gift , but i desire fruit that may abound to your account : but i have all , phil. . . how fain wouldst thou make the apostle like thy self , an offender , so thy eye is blinded with a gift , ( as it is written ) and here i charge thee to accuse the apostle falsly , query . whether if paul received a gift , why may not others supply their necessaries ? answ : paul sayd , not because i desire a gift , in the same verse , which words thou pervertest , but that fruit might abound , for he denyed balaams gifts . thou enimy of righteousness , how darest thou slander the apostle who was a tru minister of god ; all thy end in thy querying is for thy gift , to maintain thee in balaams seat ; here i charge thee by the lord to be a perverter of the scripture , who art in the way of kain , iude . i can scarce compare thee to balaam , for he denyed the gift which thou pleadest for , and wrestest the scripture to maintain it , and therefore wo is to thee , who lovest the wages of unrighteousness ; but thou art one who servest not the lord iesus christ , but thy own belly , and by good words , and fayr speeches deceivest the hearts of the simple , rom : . phil : . query whether david was not in a heavenly condicion , while on the earth , as well as any of you , being a man after gods own heart ? acts . answ : he was in that heavenly condicion , which thou shalt never see : david we witness and his condicion , whom thou art an enimy to , and with thy aspiring mind wouldst know ; but it is the subtle serpent which is shut forth , which christ cryed , wo unto you serpents , which paint your selves with the prophets words , math and so thou art painted , and wouldst be painted , and wo is thy porcion , as t was theirs , math : ● . . query what heaven is this , that he is not ascended into ? answ : ●hou wouldst know what heaven david is not ascended into : thou never kn●west davids condicion that he was in , that minde of thine must first know hell , where the wicked are turned into psal : . thou hast nothing to do to know where david is ascended , for thou never knewest his first estate , nor thou art not brought into his condicion , but he that knowes the heaven of heavens , knows what heaven it is ; he that hath an eare let him hear , but thou art in the generacion of them that hated david . query . if not ascended into heaven , where was he all that time , being dead long before ? discover this by scripture any of you all , if cleared to any of you . answ . here thou beast art got up , and shewest forth thy pride , when thou knowest the heavens thou shalt know where david is , wouldst thou have a meaning to that which the apostle spoke , another meaning to his words ? he sayd it was so plainly , and we witness the same ; david is not yet ascended , what sayst thou to that ? we witness it is as the apostle spoke , acts . . wouldst thou pervert his words ? here thou hast shewed forth thy dark minde ; davids sepulcher we know and see , and it is with us as the apostle sayd , acts . . if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear ; but thou art blinde , and therefore dost thou rage and cavil , and there thou wouldst have another meaning to the scripture , in this query , which shews that thou hast not the same spirit that gave them forth , and plainly hast shewed forth thy blindness and ignorance ; wouldst thou have the scripture cleared up to thy dark minde and carnal eye ? as job sayd , it is hid from thee ; the scriptures are as they speak , we witness them ; here i charge thee again , thou wouldst have another meaning to scriptures than they are , and thou wouldst have us to clear them to thy covetous eye , but thou must have thy eye cleared , for darkness cannot comprehend the light , john . . ( as the scriptures sayth ) for the natural man knows not the things of god , cor. . . thou knowest them not , nor no serpent , nor scribes and pharises , who are in thy nature ; but god is light , in him is no darkness at all , who hath made himself manifest unto us , & we do witness that they are of no private interpretacion , pet. . . and we deny all thy clearing which thou wouldst have us to give of them , for we own them with that spirit which gave them forth . and in the same query thou speakest of george fox , who as thou sayst , is our cunning and subtle leader ; the name of george fox is carnal , and thou with thy carnal eye , and by thy carnal imaginacions lookst and imaginest our leader to be carnal , such as thine is , the carnal letter , but herein thou art under the power of witchcraft , and the deceit hath blinded thy eye , for our leader is not carnal , but eternal and spiritual , rom. . . which leading yet thou never knewst nor canst not witness , therefore dost thou blaspheme ▪ but art lead by thy imaginacions , as in this thing thou makest plainly appear , and art guided and lead by him who is the subtlest of any beast of the field , the cunning serpent , under whose dominion and government thou art , and that which all the tru servants of god in all generacions were guided by do we witness to be our leader , who was before time , when as george fox is in time , and so not the leader of the saints , but him we own as one with us in the eternal unity . query . what they were that had not sinned after the similitude of adams transgressions , he being the publick head of mankinde in the first creation . answ . thou wouldst know what they were that had not sinned after the similitude of adams transgressions , but thy knowledg is bruitish , and they are hid from thee , without thy understanding eternally ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy self not to have the same spirit that gave forth the scriptures , for if thou hadst thou mightst see them , and if thou knewst adam as he was in the beginning , as he was in the head , ( as thou sayst ) thou mightst see them , but thou dost not see thy self in the fall , and the death passed over thee , which hath passed over all men , rom. . . and art in the trangression of adam in the fall , eating of the tree of knowledg which god forbad , but those we do know , which thou with that eye shalt never see , who art a busi-body . query . wherein was adam a figure of him that was to come ? answ . wouldst thou have the figure cleared to thy dark minde , he was the figure of him that was to come ; here thou shewest thou neither knowest the figure nor the substance , if thou hadst known the figure or the substance thou wouldst have known the apostles meaning , we witness as it is ; and here i charge thee again that thou wouldst have another meaning than the apostle spoke , who wouldst have the scripture cleared , shewing that thou hast not the same spirit that the apostles had , r●m . . . here thou makest thy self manifest to be a stranger to the life of god , death reigns in thee , and thou neither knowest adam ▪ nor moses , and there is the scripture cleared up to thee , it is thou that must be cleared ; and there is thy meaning to it . query . who were they that were baptised for the dead ? cor. . . answ . wouldst thou have another meaning of them , who are baptised for the dead ? it seems that the dead is not risen in thee ; and here th●n standst in thy imaginacions , and that dead minde in thee shall never know any thing of the scripture , nor any thing of god , but art dead from the truth , cor. . . but we witness it to be fulfilled . query . what his meaning is in being baptised for the dead ? answ . here is the evil minde in thee , that would be aspiring to know the baptisme of the dead ; here thou shewest thou never knewst christ , nor the apostles , nor baptisme , nor death in thy self , rom. . . but makest thy ignorance and foolishness to appear , when ever thou knowest death to that which is alive in thee , and that thou must before ever thou comest to know the scriptures , that which would have a meaning to it , we do deny , for we witness it through the death of that nature which is alive in thee , who art blinde and canst not see , which never shall know the meaning of that scripture ( but death ) with thy carnal eye , rom. . . query . how this makes to the proving of the point of the resurrection , the apostle instancing it to this end ? answ . when thou knowest the baptisme , thou shalt know the resurrection , but to make a point of resurrection i utterly deny ; here thou hast shewed thy witchcraft , i charge thee in the presence of the lord god almighty to make an image for thy dead minde , as touching the point of the resurrection ; psalm . ● . the resurrection thou wouldst have a point made of it , and the proof of this point to thy dead carnal minde : i utterly deny thy points with thy dead minde , raised out of the dead letter , which was given forth from a living and an eternal spirit , but thy dead minde is an enemy to the resurrection ; and here thou shewest thy self plainly unlearned , pet. . . and untaught of god , for before thou know the resurrection , thou must deny all thy dead points and proofs ; and openly hast thou declared it in these queryes , that thou neither knewst life nor resurrection . query . what guile and craft was it he taught them by ? cor. . ● . answ . o thou vain man ! thou wouldst know what guile and craft the saints were taught by , not thy guile , and witchcraft , and sorcery , which thou livest in , ier. . . which thou drawest people from the truth withall , by thy fair colours and imaginacions , and so feedest them with thy corrupt stuff● and it is that which thou art an enemy to , and never knewst , for thou art in the gall of bitterness , buying and selling the letter , catching with thy witchcraft , and this is thy guile , giving thy imaginacions upon the scriptures which paul gave forth , rom. ● . . shewing forth thy spiritual whoredom from the life of them that gave it forth ; thou art not come so far as simon magus , who would have bought the gift of god for money , but the wisdom of god takes the wise in their own craftiness ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be ignorant of the ministers of god , and thy self to be full of subtilty and a fool . query . what enlightning this is ? heb. , , , . answ . it is the enlightning which thou knowest not of , which is not born up in thy understanding , which thou art an enemy to , which is the light of god , which light thou hatest , iohn . . query ● . what heavenly gift it is they tasted ? answ . if thou knewst the gift of god , iohn . . thou wouldst not buy and sell the letter , for the gift of god is not to be bought and sold , and that gift shalt thou never know , which is the gift of god , rom. . . query . how or in what sense they were made pertakers of the holy ghost . answ . wouldst thou draw the holy ghost to thy sense , and to thy carnal reason ? with which thou shalt never know it , but art blind , without god in the world , & wouldst intrude into the saints condicions , ephes . . . query . what world to come is this they tasted of ? answ . not of the dark world which thou art in : that world which thou shalt never see , for that world and the holy ghost we witness , therefore we see thee in the dark world without god , rom. . . query . whether such as these did fall away ? answ . thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance of the form of the letter , many did taste of the power of god , and did eat of the spiritual meat , and did drink of the spiritual drink , and were destroyed , cor. . ● , . this meat and drink thou knowest not , nor art not come to eat of it . query . how or in what sense they cruci●ied the son of god afresh ▪ and put him to open shame ? answ . thou wouldst know in what sense they crucified the son of god afresh , and thou art he that crucifiest him where he is risen and made manifest , and they are they which crucifie him afresh , who have tasted of the heavenly gift , and draw back from it , which gift yet thou art not come to know , hadst thou an ear thou mightst hear , rev. . . but thou art in the estate of the chief priests and pharises , who could tell by the letter where he should be born , but were they that put him to death . in these six questions thou hast shewed forth thy self that thou dost not know the light which the saints were and are enlightned by , nor thou dost not know the heavenly gift ; now here thou hast shewed thy self openly to be a blinde minister of the letter , and what dost thou speak to people but the carnal letter , which dost not know the gift of god , and thou hast shewed that thou dost not know the holy ghost , but wouldst have a carnal sense upon that which is eternal ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be a natural man indeed ; for shame blush and give over thy trade , and prating about other mens matters ; thou busi-body , thou hast openly shewed thou dost not know the world which is to come , heb. . . but hast shewed thy self to be one that keeps people in the dark world ; and here thou makest it manifest that thou never tastedst of the world to come ; and here thou hast raced out thy self , and shut thy self up in the dark world ; and here thou art taken in thy craftiness , and catched in thy subtle guile , because thou hast shewed thy self that thou never wert in the way ; therefore thou dost not see them ; and here it is that makes it manifest , thou art in the fall , and in the by-path , and in the dark , and in the broad way , and there thou keepst poor people ; and thou hast shewed that thou art he that crucifies christ , mark . , . and bringst all others to crucifie him , and dost not know that condicion of them that crucified him afresh , but art spending all thy strength to keep people from him , which eternally thou and they and all people shall witness us to speak the truth ; wheras thou hast sayd thou hast given me a taste , least thou shouldst tyer me ; but friend , thy spirit i did taste before i did see thy queryes , which is the spirit of antichrist , and knowing nothing of the tru christ , which thou hast openly shewed , that spirit of thine cannot weary us , for it is for destruction . thou blinde sot , how darest thou speak to people , that neither knowst the enlightning nor the holy ghost , nor the gift of god , nor the world which is to come , therefore what dost thou lead them out of ? nor what is it to crucifie christ afresh , nor the condicion of them that fall away , which shews that thou art not out of the fall ; therefore all people who hear this fellow , take notice of this blinde guide , how ignorant he hath shewed himself of the doctrine of christ , john . . and raced himself out to be no minister of christ , as not knowing the apostles condicions ; all these things we witness fulfilled , acts . . the holy ghost , the enlightning , the world to come , and the heavenly gift , but not by any such teacher as thou art , prayses be to the lord alone for ever ▪ the lord alone is our teacher , therefore do we deny and testifie against all such as thou art , all these things hath god fulfilled in us , rom. . . therefore we witness them , prayses be to the lord god for ever . query . whether the old testament discovering the minde of god to man , be of any esteem with you ? yea or no. answ . we witness the new testament and old both , and thee to be without both , but onely to make a trade of them , and there they are in esteem to thee , for thou hast never come out of egypt yet , for when he lead them out of egypt he gave them a covenant , judges . . but thou neither knowest moses , nor the prophets nor christ , but they are in esteem with us , and we witness against thee . query . whether thou canst or dare deny the generality of the precepts given in this particular before cited ? answ . the precepts of god we own all , but thou neither ownest prcepts , law , nor command , nor statutes , nor ordinances ; therefore a busie fellow thou art , querying whether we own them or no , that thou mightst accuse ; for if thou didst own them , thou wouldst own us and christ , but thy precepts and commands we deny , and doctrines , and ordinances , for they are not to be tasted , touched , nor handled , for they are to perish with the using of them , col. . , . query . whether it be not the work of satan on your spirits , to endeavour to stop the greatest part in the world from giving that to god which he calls for ? answ . it is the work of god to stop the mouths of the world , that we witness ; and it is the work of satan to open the mouths of the world , and he opens their mouths , who keeps open thy mouth , whose mouth must be stopped , tit. . . and that which the world gives to the living god is abominacion , for the whole world lyes in wickedness , and thou wouldst have the worlds mouth kept open , and that which is abominacion to the lord god set up ; but the lord is coming in power to throw down the abominacion , and to stop the mouths of the world , which thou wouldst justifie and set open , shewing thy self to be a freind of the god of this world : it is the work of god to stop the mouths of the world . freind thou wouldst have an answer to these scriptures and queries , ro● : . , . iohn . query whether thou dost own the scripture for a truth ? answ : we witness the scripture to be a truth , and thee to be a lyar , not knowing any thing of them . query do you not deceive your selves in saying you have no sin ? answ : here thou errest in not knowing that epistle which thou bringest to accuse us withall , for the same that gave it forth , sayd , if ye confess your sins , he is faithfull and just to forgive and to cleanse you from all uncleanesse iohn , . . here thou hast shewed thy selfe that thou art not come yet to the confession of thy sinns , therefore farre short from cleansing from all thy filthinesse of flesh and spirit ; but blessed be god the father of our lord jesus christ , who is making manifest himself to destroy the works of the devill , iohn . and here thou shewest that iesus christ is not made manifest to thee , and that the works of the devill are yet standing in thee . o thou enimy of god and righteousness ! what hast thou preached all this while to poor ignorant blind people ? now thou hast shewed here that thy faith is vain , and that thou art yet in thy sins , ( as the scripture shews plainly ) he that beleives is born of god , and cannot commit sin , iohn query : how canst thou justifie thy self to be in the truth , and the truth in thee , when thy words make it a very token and signe that the truth is not in thee ? answ : thy token and thy signe is without thee , and here thou shewest thy self to be in the generacion of the pharises , looking for outward signes , and outward tokens , and sayst , how can we justifie our selves , thou dark sot , did ever truth come to justifie selfe ? truth ever comes to condemn selfe ; here thou hast showed forth thy confusion in this query , and in thy dark minde : if we say we have not sinned , we deceive our selves , and make him a lyar , and the truth is not in us , iohn . . but where iesus christ is made manifest , he is made manifest to destroy the works of the devill , and he that sinneth is of the devil , iohn . . here are the children of god made manifest , and the children of the devil , for he that commiteth sin never knew god ; if we had not sined , we had needed no saviour , and here thou showest thy self to be a child of the devil , and never knewest god , but standest for the devils kingdom , making thy self manifest , not to be in that condicion as they were that spoke forth the scriptures , but art without god in the world , ephes . . . hating those now who have the life of them made manifest , and jesus christ , who is come and made manifest to destroy the works of the devil ; this i witness to be fulfilled , and the taking away of sin , and the cleansing from all unrighteousness , therefore i clear my conscience . prayse to the glorious god for ever , who is coming to lead poor simple people from their blinde guides , for to the children of god ye are discovered to be the children of the devil . query . are the scriptures owned for a truth ? yea or no. james . . answ . here thou hast shewed forth thy busie minde , one question had been enough to have asked , whether the scriptures be tru yea or no ? we witness the scriptures to be tru , and we witness thee to be a lyar , and erring from the scripture not knowing them , matth. . . many scriptures thou hast stollen to maintain thee in thy sin , and to uphold the devils kingdom , who livest wholly in offences , and bringst them into the same offences like thy self , and wouldst make the apostles offenders like thy self , for the apostle sayth , whosoever offends not in words , the same is a perfect man , and able to bridle the whole body , and whosoever hath not power over his own tongue , his religion is vain , james , . and here thou shewest thy religion to be vain . query : is there a greater priviledg or freedom now for christians , than there was for the apostles or brethren in those times ? if so , discover it by scripture . answ . here thou hast shewed thou knowst nothing , for thou art desiring to know their priviledg , which minde in thee never shall , for the same priviledg the apostles did enjoy we enjoy , and the unity is but one , ephes . ● . . and the same word they did enjoy we do enjoy , and the same christ we enjoy , and the same god they did enjoy we do enjoy ; here thou wouldst make two , which shews thou art in the con●●sion ; there is a greater priviledg and freedom now than there was then , yet the same ; and in thy query thou hast shewed , thou knowest nothing of scripture : and again thou sayst that as for what any of us say , besides , or above it , or against it , thou weighest it not , and all scripture is for the perfecting of the man of god , ephes . . ● . which we witness , but thou shewest thou knowst nothing of the scriptures , but hast spoken besides it , and against it , as oft i have shewed thee in thy former writings and queries , and added to it ▪ and perverted it , therefore are the plagues du to thee , and are thy porcion . clear thy self if thou canst , let that in thy conscience clear thee , but it cannot i know : thou wouldst be satisfied ( if we can ) what are the reasons that so many questions should never be answered till our days , though god had still a people in the world ; and where didst thou see such questions put forth before , for the darkness has reigned long , and gods people did ever stand against such things ; thou mayst reade of many martyrs that suffered death , who witnessed the truth against the pretended truth , for the dark time and power of babylon hath long reigned , and the works of the beast ; but now god is raising up light in peoples hearts , cor. . . by which ye are descended that profess the scripture to be your rule and touch-stone to try withall , for the queries are put forth to you that ye might see your selves , cor. . . that there is no scripture for what you act , and that you might shew forth your filthiness ; and here in thy queryes and writings thou hast made it appear openly , the dark power that hath reigned in thee hath been an upholder of this babylon , that never knew any thing of the life of the scripture come to be opened to thee , but now thy torment is but beginning , and so fare thee well , and if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , rev. . . but thy carnal filthy blinde minde in this will not be satisfied , nor never must , but must first know destruction , and is for desruction , which is an enemy to god ; therefore do we not flatter thee , nor few pillows under thy arm-holes , that thou maystly soft . query . a question thou askest , which is most likely to be antichrist , and of the devil , he that ▪ preaches a power in all men to obey . answ . now here thou shewest thy self openly to be antichrist , and of the devil , and knows not the first principle , for jesus christ sayth , i am the light of the world that enlightens every one that comes into the world , he that loves the light brings his deeds to the light , that the light might prove them , and he that walks in the light there is no occasion of stumb●ing , and the other he hates the light ▪ because his deeds are evil , and the light will reprove them , iohn . ●● . the light is the condemnacion of the world , which light is christ , who sayth ▪ he is the light ; here thou hast made thy self openly to be blinde , and one of the children of disobedience , who disobey the light , and wouldst have all others to disobey it , and to follow thy imaginacions , and so thou dost not onely deny it thy self , but thou wouldst have all others to deny it ; for the grace of god which bringeth salvacion , hath appeared to all , and teacheth us ( the saints ) to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , tit. . , . this is the saints teacher , but thou shewest thy self to be blinde and ignorant of the letter : this grace hath appeared to all freely , and this grace of god is the free teacher , but such as thou art in the world , turns this grace into wantonness , and sets up teachers without you , and so denyes the grace of god to teach , and so lives in ungodliness and unrighteousness , and tempts god for grace when the grace of god hath appeared to all ; and here thou shewest thy self to be a tempter of god , iames . . and void of grace and understanding , turning it into wantonness , which should teach thee , and drawst ot hers from it . query . another question thou ask●st : who is more likely to be antichrist and of the devil , he that sayth he is christ and the light of the world , or he that preaches that false christs should come ? answ . the same that sayd false christs should come , the same christ sayd he was christ , and the light of the world , this christ and this light we witness ; here thou callest iesus christ antichrist , and hast shewed forth thy blasphemy , iames . . thou blasphemer , how darest thou profess thy self to be a minister of christ , and blasphemest christ ? tim. . . and questionest whether he that sayth he is christ , be not of the devil or no ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be in the generacion of the iews that blasphemed christ , and called him devil , iohn . , . for the same christ we witness made as manifest as ever , and thee to be a reprobate without christ , and thou hast made thy self openly to appear to be a reprobate without god and christ in the world , ephes . . . query . another question thou askest ▪ who is like to be the man thou speakest of , he that sayth he is equal with god and christ , or he that preached christ the head ? ans . here in this question thou hast openly shewed thy self not to have the same minde the apostle had , for sayth he , i would the same minde were in you that was also in christ iesus , who thought it no robbery to be equal with god , and yet made himself of no reputa●ion ▪ phil. . . and here thou hast shewed thy self that thou hast neither the minde of christ , nor his apostles , but art an antichrist , and an enemy against them that witness these things , which the apostle said , i would that ye were of the same minde ; and again the apostle sayth , our fellowship is with the father and the son , iohn . . and he did write to others that their fellowship might be with them , and he that hath the father hath the son also , and he that is joyned to the lord is one spirit , and he that is joyned to an harlot is one flesh , and there thou art , harloted from all the saints , christ and the apostles , and hast shewed thy self to be an enemy against them who are in the same minde and condicion as the apostles and saints were ; here be thou a witness against thy self , that thou art witnessing against the life of the saints , he that preached christ witnessed the head and the members , and wished the same minde to be in them as was in christ , who thought it no robbery to be equal with god , phil. . , . which thou art ignorant of , but thou hast shewed thy self that thou neither knowest the head nor the members , nor the body , but wouldst seek to take the preheminence from christ , who hast got the chief place in the assembly , and art called of men master , but christ sayd , call no man master on earth , for you have one master even christ , matth. . . and there thou hast taken the preheminence which christ sayth , he that will be greatest must be servant to all , matth. . , . but thou art got above all , in the place of them that the wo was preached to , and there is thy porcion , own it . finis . certain queries occasioned by a printed paper of richard farnsworth , sent to be answered , and no name subscribed : from dark mindes which be full of subtlety , not knowing the first principle . query . whether that light within unto which thou exhortest all to attend , be in unbelievers , as well as in believers ? yea or no. answ . friend , in this first query thou wouldst know , whether the light be in others , which shews forth thy dark minde , which cannot comprehend the light , neither hast thou the light which the scripture speak of ? iesus christ sayth , i am the light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . the one he loves the light , and brings his works to the light , and walks in the light , and there is no occasion of stumbling , iohn . . the other he hates this light , because his deeds are evil , and this is his condemnacion , the light ; be silent all flesh ! friend , thou art one that hates this light , thy spirit is tryed , for if thou wert in the light , there would be no occasion of stumbling , but thou art antichrist , without this light , iohn . . therefore thou dost not see the light which hath enlightned every one , the believer and the unbeliever , which is his condemnacion that believes not . query . if in unbelievers as well as in believers , whether is it one and the same light , with that anoynting thou speakest of ? yea or no. answ . it is one with the anoynting , and if it were not one with the anoynting , it were one against the anoynting , an imagined light , wherein thou hast shewed thy blindness , and thy ignorance thou makest appear , which neither knowest the light nor the anoynting , for thy dark minde cannot comprehend it , light shines in darkness and darkness comprehends it not , iohn . . and there thou art exalted in the foolish wisdom which is of the world , which is foolishness to the wisdom of god , swelling in the lying vanityes , one of them that are disobedient to the light , without god in the world , the son of perdicion , which is exalted above all that is called god. query . whether it be not the new law of righteousness written in the heart to condemn sin in the flesh , which thou sayst a man may say he is above the law by the gospel , be not the pure and true gospel manifested by iesus christ ? yea or no. answ . that is thy own condicion , for thou art got above professing the gospel , or the new law of righteousness , which knowest neither in the power of truth through the death , for if thou didst , there would not be such a confusion in thy queryes , and in thy words , for thou professest the gospel , with thy busie minde , and wouldst be informed as touching those things , and wouldst be up in the highest place professing the gospel , but thou must come down to the first principle , heb. . . and see thy self a childe of disobedience , in whom the prince of the ayer yet lodgeth , for hence it is so many do profess the gospel and the new law of righteousness , and are not come through the law , for the law hath power over a man as long as he lives , and who are made free from the law are made free from sin through the law , iohn . . i am dead to the law , where this is witnessed , and the gospel known and the new law of righteousness ; but friend , this is out of thy dark minde , for thou art drunk yet with the earthly spirit , and appearest something in thy comprehension , which is gathered in with imaginacions and conceivings , but the promise is , thou must be scattered , and if ever thou witness that fulfilled , thou wilt witness what i say , but thy dark minde comprehends me not . . query . whether thou makest any distinction between the new law of righteousness , written in the heart , by the life of jesus , and the law administred by moses , which sayth , do this and live ; and if thou make any , wherein lyes it ? answ . thou wouldst be comprehending with thy reason , to know a difference without thee , which shews forth thy blindness , death reigned from adam till moses , and that it doth in thee yet , for that which should see is in the death : the law and the prophets they were untill iohn , and iohn untill christ , he that can receive it let him , if thou canst receive it thou mayst , and when thou comest to go through moses , and through the prophets , and through iohn to come to christ , then shalt thou see the light is but one , but thou art making a difference betwixt christ and moses as the pharises did , who knew not moses , nor the prophets , nor iohn , nor christ , and in that generacion of the pharises thou art ; i must deal plainly with thee , thy spirit is known and tryed , which is not the spirit that raised up iesus ; therefore thou who wouldst be comprehending with thy reason , thou and thy reason are comprehended , which shall never search into the things of god , the pure wisdom of god is shut up from that vulterous eye , iob . . and venomous beast , who art come out of the bottomless pit , and thither must return again , and in the viperous generacion thou art : and as touching the outward commands and observances , where the life of iesus is made manifest , the substance of all types and ●igures is come , rom. . . there is no more observing them , being made free from all them by him who was under the law , made under the law to fulfill the law , and the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , rom. . . and who are here denyes all the carnal outward observances & tradicions , as the temple outwardly which god had commanded , and circumcision outwardly , and the priests outwardly , for they had received iesus christ the high priest who is the end of the law , rom. . . so the carnal minde had carnal types and figures and shadows of heavenly things , but he that is made free from the law , is made free from the curse , which thou art not , which gave forth these queries , if thou hadst thou wouldst not have shewed forth thy busie minde ; but it is now as the apostle sayd , it was then , there was some doting about questions , and the law , which thou shewest thy self to be one of them who hast uttered forth thy folly , therefore be ashamed and lay thy hand upon thy mouth . query . whether new jerusalem and the holy temple therein be but newly come down from heaven , as in this our age , or the like , wherein the tru worshipers worshiped the father in spirit and truth , or hath it always been the place and temple , wherein the saints of god have worshiped the father in spirit and truth , iohn . . from the beginning of the world , seeing our saviour speaks that abraham saw his day and rejoyced , and that the time is coming , yea now is , that neither at samaria nor at jerusalem ? answ . thou wouldst know whether new ierusalem be newly come down in this our age , and it is that which ever was , and ever did come down to the saints , they witnessed this ; but friend , to thee in thy age and generacion where thou art in , it is not come , ( but thou art a stranger querying without ) nor never did , nor never shall come , in that generacion thou art among the serpents which the wo was ever preached to , matth. . even that generacion which got the form to speak of ierusalem , and the temple , but are the synagogues of satan , and full of dead mens bones , and who are whited outsides , and beautifull outwardly , but full of corruption within ; and in that generacion wherein was and is all the righteous bloud shed , and in that nature which thou wouldst know these things in , it was ever hid from , who have the chiefest places in the assemblyes , and called of men master , matth. . . and in that generacion thou art , which the wo was ever preached to , try thy self , for to that in thy conscience which should exercise it do i speak , cor. . . and when it doth appear , it will witness me , cor. . . the time is coming , and now is , that not at ierusalem in your highest profession of christ , nor your highest glorious nocions of him , which you live in , nor none of your steeple-houses , nor none of your exercises , as you call them , nor the daintiest dish you have will be meat for the tru worshipers of god , for they have run to this steeple-house and that steeple-house , and to this mountain and that mountain , and here is a dainty dish , and there is a dainty dish , sayth the harlot , which hath long deceived the simple ones , but now all you harlots are discovered , which have deceived the nations , and now abraham shall arise , who is the friend of god , whom thou knowest not , but art in the generacion of them who professed abraham and freedom , and god to be their father , but were of their father the devil , iohn . , ● . doing his work , who was a murderer , crucifying the just , who are in the fall , and not come to the beginning , for thy father was a murderer since the beginning , and dives must be turned into hell , and the dives with your dainty dishes must be layd low , and you who profess the new ierusalem , will be found to be in the old ierusalem , where the lord iesus christ was and is crucified in your ierusalem now , in the highest place of worship , the tru worshipers of the father in spirit and truth , witness it to be so , and the time is come that the scripture is fulfilled , and the words of christ , iohn . . praises , praises , to the eternall glorious god of heaven , and earth , for ever , and ever , who now hath made his power known , by which we see the deceits of you all . query whether it be not gods ordinance that the inward , living , spiritual , powerful word of god , whereby all the saints of god are taught , and the tru inward spirituall worship of the saints , should in the outward appearance of them be held forth in earthen vessels , as under a form of speech , or word , yea or no ? ans : freind , in this query thou hast uttered forth thy weakness , and thy ignorance in the form of the letter doth appeare , yet serpent-like thou art full of subtilty ; but thy nakedness doth appeare openly . the word of god is as a fire , and cannot be limited , no not with thy carnal reason : it is as a hammer to beat thee to peices , and as a sword to cut thee asunder , whensoever thou comest to know this powerfull word of god. and this is the word which the prophets spoke from , who cryed wo against all them that sayd the lord sayth , and he never spoke to them , and cryed against all them that bear rule by their meanes , ier. . the horible filthy thing is committed in the land , which is and was held up with preist and people , but now the same living , spirituall , eternall word , is made manifest , and is preached abroad , against all you hyerlings and greedy dumb dogs , which have not a word from the lord , but seek for your gain from your quarters , and get up into the cheifest place of the assemblies , and are called of men masters , and stand praying in the synagogues ; he that is the word cryed wo against all such , and them that had this word , he bade them not to be as they were , math. . . and this word is made manifest in the saints , which is declared abroad : but thou who livest in appearance , and wouldst see things in appearance , in thy carnall wisdom and reason , ●hou art shut out from this knowledg , for to thee it is death to thy carnall minde ; therefore freely do i publish the eternall truth abroad , and as knowing you that you have not a word from the ●ord , but are in that generacion of those that did shut up the kingdom of heaven against men , neither go in your selves , nor suffer others , laying heavy burthens upon the people , and will not toutch them with one of your fingers , but what you do , you do it to be seen of men , making broad your philacteries , and devouring widdows houses , math. . . who art desolate from christ , who hast got the form of christs words , but art in the steps of the scribes and pharises , who had got the form of moses and the prophets , and were enemies and strangers to the life of god. moses and the prophets , and their form you have got in your comprehension , in the earthly vessel , and that 's your heavenly treasure , but now you are tryed , with what you hold forth in a form of words ( but the word of god is powerfull ) and in him is no form , but thou art a theif and a robber , who stealest the prophets words , ier. . . who art without , who knowest not the word , nor the lord , nor the tru ministers of the word , shutting out thy self in the dark world , and querying whether the word should be held forth in earthen vessels , if thou hadst an eye , or if thou hadst an eare thou mightst hear and see it preached dayly ; but as i said to thy first query , thou knowst not the light , whith enlightneth every one that commeth into the world , but art ignorant , deaf , and blinde , one that hates the light , that makes thee let forth so many stumbling queries , for hadst thou the light , thou wouldst not stumble , but be as a citty set upon a hill ; but thou art without , who hast shewed forth such a dark minde , but that minde is for destrukcion , for if thou didst walk in the light , and love it , it would lead thee to the day , which would let thee see all things , and there would be no ocasion of stumbling , but thou art him that hates the light , so all thy preaching as thou callest it leads from god , being blinde and leads the blinde , and must both go into the ditch together ; but we who are ministers of the eternal word , see it , and dwell in the light , and declare freely without a bag or a staffe : without brass , and silver , or two coats , for the workman is worthy of his meat , freely you have received , freely give , math. . . therefore we do deny your preaching , and for the simple ones sake who are in the simplicity , who have been ensnared by you who are in the subtilty , and such as you are , who have let forth these queries , for we know your spirits , though you have not let forth your names : so who are in the simplicity , seeking after the truth , for their sakes have i let forth my self , and shewed forth your folly . query . whether the idols temple , and the worship that 's done therein , be onely visible things , as a house of wood , and stone , and outward appearances , as forms , and rites , and customes that were observed therein ? or the idols temple , and the worship that 's done therein , be not also in mans spirit , and mysticall , inward , and invisible , as to sence according as it is begotten of the spirituall prince of darkness , yea or no ? answ : whereas thou wouldst be informed , who art querying without , in whom lodgeth the mystery of iniquity , which minde holds up the forms , and the rites , and the customs , and the idols temple of lime , and stone , which is the mysticall spirit , which thou speakst of , for if thou own the light which enlighteneth every one that comes into the world ( which is christ ) it would bring thee into the cross , which is to thy carnall minde , and let thee see the prince of the ayer rule in thee , who art a childe of disobedience , where the mystery of iniquity lodgeth , and this light would let thee see the carnall minde in whom all the images lodge , and the idols temple , and the carnall part being wrought out within , and the devils tremble , and the earth shaken , isay . . . and thrown down there , which is the foundacion of all images ; for that within holds up these without , the carnal part within holds up the carnal temple without , and that looks at all these rites , customs , forms , and tradicions thou speakst of , and the minde that is perishing is that that holds up all these perishing things , in whom the mystery of iniquity lodgeth , thes . . . but if thou wert obedient to the light , and loved it , it would bring thee to know god , and to escape the prince of the ayer , which holds up all these things without thee ; for israel when he had forgotten his maker , builded temples , so thy carnal minde ruleing , and disobeying the light which would guide thee to god , that carnal mind within , brings thee to hold up temples without thee , and so thou art in the pride and the highness of minde , for out of pride ( whose dominion is satan ) came these queries , but who are made the temples of god are holy , and deny all your outward temples of the preists , and and all your carnal observances , which you live in , who profess the new-covenant , or the gospel , or christ , or the word : but i will deal plainly with you : you are not come to know the old covenant , for from the inward doth all idols , and images arise , and there is many idols and images which thou bowest down to , with out thee , then look within thee , and thou art full of imaginacions and images both within and without , pro. . . for as the spirituall prince of darkness , as thou speakst , they have their idols and images without , as ever it was in all that generacion , which thou livest in ; and when thou hast denied the outward idols all of them by the light of god , which thou hatest , then thou shalt see them within thee , thou that stumblest at the light art he that holdst up all these images , ezek. . . in whom the mystery of iniquity lodgeth , for the light of the body is the eye , which shews all these things , and that it is which i sayd to thee before , thou knowest not , ( for thou art full of images within ) thou knowest it not , born up in thy understanding to guide thee , for it is the light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . which thou art an enemy and a stranger to , and stumblest at , which light shall be thy condemnacion , iohn . . query . if the inward living invisible word of god , which is the teacher , in no way held forth under a form , as to outward appearance to men , in earthen vessels , why do i see thy expressions and exhortations come forth in print ? answ . to the eighth query ; thou full of subtlety , spuing forth thy venom , and askest in the query before , whe●her the word should be held forth or no , and now thou dost hear something that is published abroad , which is a cross to thee , and which makes manifest you are stirred up , and doth torment you , therefore dost thou push with thy ten horns , nevertheless thou sendest not the queryes to him whom thou dost accuse , and sayst , why see i thy expressions in print , and sendest them to another , but such is thy rage and fury , and now it doth appear to all men , though it hath layn close , the eternal word hath stirred him up ; but friend , i declare plainly to thee , god almighty of heaven and earth , hath raised up a light in the hearts of people , pet. . . ( and he is coming to teach them himself ) whereby your abominacion and filthiness is discovered to the sons and daughters of the lord god almighty , and according to his promise he hath poured forth his spirit that his sons and daughters begin to prophecy , ioel . , . prayses be to the lord god almighty , who now is setting up his kingdom , who sends his sons and daughters abroad , some to prophecy , and some to preach , and to declare his name , freely ye have received , freely give , matth. . . and some write , and some speak face to face , so you shall see it nearer you ere long , and as the prophets of the lord who spake his word , somtimes spoke , and when they were moved to write they writ ●nd published it abroad , so do we the same , being absent in body , sending forth writings or printed books to declare to the simple mindes the deceits that ye who are blinde guides have led them in ; but iesus christ the light now shines , by which ye are seen and discovered , therefore stop your mouths & be ashamed , who have never had word from god , micah . . for the lord god is coming to stop your mouths , ye dumb prophets , and dogs , thieves , and robbers , who have stollen the words of others , whom ye know not , jer. . . but the earth hath got the declaracion , which is earth , and so speaks the earth for the earth , but o earth ! hear the word of the lord , for wo is to ye that inhabit the earth ; and now the devil begins to rage , because the word of god is sounding abroad , and the trumpet is blowing , which makes the inhabitants of the earth to tremble : but all your preaching we do deny , and all your blessings ; for as it is written , as the prophet sayd , their blessings were cursed , and their seed were corrupt , mal. . , . and in their generacion you are , the light which is christ is made manifest , which lets me see you to be in that generacion , which hath gathered us up to god , and lets us see thee without god. query . whether to exhort a man to attend to that light which is within , which his eye can see , and which his ear can hear , and which his understanding can comprehend , and of which ●e can give a reason , be not to draw men to attend to visible things , and to worship in the idols temple , and to bow down to the image of things , which he hath seen in heaven and earth , yea or no ? answ . to the ninth query ; in it thou art compleat , if thou didst see thy self in the mystery of iniquity , fencing with thy weapons , which are spiritual wickednesses , which lodgeth in the highest place , and with thy thoughts and imaginacions as it doth openly appear to him that obeys the light , so thou drawest people to look after visible things , and to worship in the idols temple , cor. . . to that which thy reason can understand , and thy carnal eye can see , and thy carnal ear can hear , so thou worshipest the host of heaven , and that is thy heaven , and thy earth ; but heaven is gods throne , and thou with thy carnal eye canst never see that , but drawst all under to thy worship , and that thou bowest down to , to thy own imaginacions within , and then thou settest up somthing without thee , and bringest others to bow down to thy images and idols without thee , which thou ●ast set up , which flows from the spiritual wickedness within thee , in the highest place , and there thou dost climb up to the highest pinnacle , and he that will bow down and worship thee , thou givest thy glory to him , if he will not thou drawest out thy carnal weapons to murder him , for all the ministers of the letter are persecutors of the spirit , where thou shewest thy self to be one ; but friend , the ▪ light which is exhorted to take heed unto , pet. . . thy dark ▪ minde cannot comprehend , thy ear cannot hear , thy eye cannot see , therefore dost thou stumble , as he who was the light sayd , and he that waits in the light ( which light is christ ) it guides him up to god , and to the church in god , and to bow down to nothing bu● god , thess . . . and it teacheth to know things that be eternal and invisible , by which light we deny all thy images , forms rites , and customs , all thy images within thee , and the idols without thee , for thou art full of them ▪ praysed be the lord god almighty , who is come to teach his children , and hath gathered us from your mouths , who made a prey upon us , who wandred from mountain to mountain , but now the lord hath fulfilled his promise , and is fulfilling it ; for thou art full of images , and art the well-coloured beast , and hast the well-coloured robes , and art the harlot out of the truth , nah. . . who deceives with thy evil eye to draw people to visible things . query . whether to say , obey the light that is within , and that is life , and disobey it , that 's death , be not to speak according to the tenour of the old covenant , which sayth , do this and live , yea or no ? answ . to the tenth query : in the observance of outward things and tradicions there is a difference , in the obeying of the light within , and observing things without , as the apostle sayd , take heed to the light within you , untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , pet. . . who witnessed the new ▪ covenant , and they that did obey the light within , saw through the old , and saw christ , so a new command i give unto you , yet not a new but an old , if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , but as i sayd to thee before , it is that which thy reason cannot comprehend , nor never shall , and ye are sanctified through the obedience of the spirit , john . . pet. . . and thy intent in these queryes is to draw into disobedience from the light of god within them , to follow the imaginacions of such as thou art , but who doth obey the light , thou art discovered to them , and thou and all who hate this light , it is thine and their condemnacion , and eternally shalt thou witness me , for to the light i speak , which thy dark minde cannot comprehend , and all who disobeys the light , holds the truth in an unrighteous minde , rom. . . but the lord jesus christ is coming , who will render vengeance in flames of fier , upon all them who know not god , and that obeys not the gospel of our lord jesus christ , thess . . . now thou mayst call this the old covenant , and the covenant of works , who livest in the mystery of iniquity , and art disobedient , who art one in that generacion that is disobedient to the gospel of our lord iesus christ , and seekest to keep others in the same generacion from obeying the gospel of our lord iesus christ , with all thy beastical power in these ten queryes , who hast uttered forth thy ten horns , that pusheth with them , against the lamb and against the saints , dan. . . but the lamb hath got the victory over the beast , and over the false prophets , the light that doth enlighten every one that cometh into the world , this light he dwelleth in which sees thee , which hath answered these queryes , who art without , yet so as not to the feeding of that minde and reason which must die in thee , for plagues , and wo , and judgment , and vengeance , and flames of fier , will the lord render upon thee , who doth not obey the gospel , thess . . . and so fare thee well , for in the pit and fall thou art , one that doth disobey the light , and hatest the light , and stumblest at it , and there thou standest condemned , for to that in thy conscience do i speak , cor. . . which shall eternally witness me , cor. . . finis . certain queries given forth by a sort of high professors that dwell in farnez fels in lancashire , and sent to george fox , which are answered by him , and their subtlety and deceits discovered and layd open . query . whether jesus christ have a body in heaven , if he hath , whether it is the same that appeared among men in the flesh , or what manner of body hath he ? is he a particular man or person , incompassed with a body , to live in for ever ? or is it the body which the saints shall have , when all flesh shall be raised to the last judgment ? answ . thou wouldst know , whether iesus christ have a body in heaven : he remains in the heavens ; if thou hast an eare thou mayst hear : and whereas thou wouldst know whether it be the same that appeared amongst men , it is the same that did descend , the same did ascend , ephes . . . he that hath an eare to hear let him hear : and whereas thou wouldst know , what manner of body he hath ; here thou art disputing as the devil was about the body of moses , with michael the archangel , who sayd , the lord rebuke thee , so say i now , the lord rebuke thee , who art disputing about the body of christ , for the body of christ is but one , which makes free from the law and sin , and he is the head of the body , which is the church ; but this to thee is a mystery , and he liveth in his body , rom. . . and whereas thou wouldst know whether it be the body , which the saints shall have , col. . . when all flesh shall be raised to the last judgment ; here thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance , not to discern the lords body , and to be of them that would make a division in the body that is spoken of in the scripture , for the body of christ is but one , as it is written , being many members , yet one body , cor. . . and christ is the head and members of this body , and liveth in it , i in thee , and thou in me , that they may be one , as thou father art in me , and i in thee , iohn . he that can receive it , let him , but thou art he who doth not discern the lords body , therefore thou eatest and drinkest damnacion to thy self , cor. . . and to thee it is a mystery , and damnacion thou must know , and with that eye thou shalt never see it , for it is evill as herods was , who sought after the child to worship him , but would have slain him matth. . . he that raiseth the body he is the judg of the world : in flames of fier , and in flaming fier , and in vengeance shalt thou know , and in judgment , thes . . . . who art without , in the world , querying about his body who is the resurrection , john. . . and in this query thou hast shewed forth thy dark mind , which is full of confusion , and thy self to be ignorant of the body of christ , and with thy fleshly understanding , which is for destrukcion , thou wouldst know it , and this minde which hath asked this question ; but the righteousness of faith speaks on this wise , not to say to fetch christ from above , or descnd into the deep , that is , to bring up christ again from the dead : but what sayth it , the word is nigh thee even in thy mouth , and in thy heart , that is the word of faith which wee preach , rom. . . . . wherein thou hast showed thy self that gavest forth these queries , that you never heard this word of faith preached to you , and he is the head , and the saints are the body , eph. . . and in him we live , who sit with christ in heavenly places , eph. . . and his body is but one , and he lives in it for ever , whom the heavens must receive untill the time of restitucion of all things acts . . but you dark sots , this is a mystery to you , as christ is who is the head of the body ; and this body of christ which thou desirest to know , thou shalt never know , nor see , for thou art for judgment , and condemnacion ▪ ordained of old , iude . and in darkness thou livest , who art dead in sins and trespasses , eph. . . and who art querying after christ , whether he be a particular person , showing forth the same minde that was in the iewes , who knew not christ , but queried whether he was the carpenters son or no , math. . . who was not born by the will of man , and is born now but not by the will of man , him you know not , nor cannot se iohn ▪ . nor believe where he is made manifest , and he is but one in all his saints , who is their head , rom. . and their life , who comes into the world from above , and redeemes and makes free from sin and the law , with the body of christ ; he that hath an eare may hear ; to us it is plainness , who are in the gate and fold , but to you it is a mystery , who live in the mystery a● iniquity , who are without the gate , and christ is the resurrection , and the judg , iohn . . that shalt thou finde when he comes upon thee to render vengance in flames of fier , iohn . who art a childe of disobedience . query . with what bodies shall the saints arise with , and dwell , and live in for ever , shall there be given to every particular saint , a particular body . answ . whereas thou wouldst know with what body the saints shall arise , in that body which christ doth live in , for he is the saviour of the body , he is the head of the body , he is the resurrection and the life of the body , and his body is but one , so wee are many members , yet one body , cor. . . and here thou hast showed thou dost not discern the lords body , but art under the damnacion : thou fool , whereas thou wouldst know whether there shall be given to every particular saint a particular body , and with what bodies they shall arise , as they said in the corinthians , with what bodies shall they come , and how should the dead be raysed . paul makes answer , thou fool , that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die , and that which thou sowest , thou sowest not that body that shall be , but bare grain , it may chance of whear , or of some other grain , but god giveth it a body as it hath pleased him , and to every seed his own body : all flesh is not the same flesh , but there is one kind of flesh of men , another flesh of beasts , another of fishes , and another of birds : there are also celestiall bodyes , and bodies terrestiall , but the glory of the celestial is one , and the glory of the terrestiall is another . there is one glory of the sun , another glory of the moon , and another glory of the , stars , for one star differeth from another star in glory , so also is it in the resurrection of the dead ; if thou hast an eare thou mayst hear ; but thou fool art never the wiser here , but thou art a conjurer , and livest in conjuracion , ier. . . zach. . . query with what bodies shall the wicked arise , with natural , or spirituall ? answ . with thy corrupt naturall spirituall wickedness , to condemnacion ; with that body doth the wicked arise that thou livest in ; thou enimy of god shalt finde it , and the eye in thee shall see destruction , and eternall condemnacion , who queriest with what bodies the wicked shall arise : thou art risen high in thy spirituall wickedness , ephes . . . who livest in the corrupt nature , and high art thou risen in it , whose judgment is appearing , and judg stands at the door , and lingers not , whose damnacion slumbers not , pet. ● . . if thou hast an eare thou mayst hear , and there read thy porcion , and thy answer to the query . query . whether is there , or shall there be a locall place of heaven and hell , to be inhabited and dwelt in , for the saints to enjoy , and the wicked to suffer in , with their bodyes ? and how shall they be tormented , with materiall fier and brimston , or how ? and if every saint and devil , have a particular body , must there not be a particular locall place ? can bodies be ▪ no where ? must they not rest and stand upon some place , the saints singing hallelujah , to the highest for evermore ? answ . in thy query thou hast uttered forth thy confusion , who hast joyned heaven and hell together ; and whereas thou wouldst know , whether there is , or there shall be a locall place of heaven and hell : here thou shewest forth thy blindness , in that thou knowest neither heaven nor hell , and in the locall place , as thou calst it , thou art , and there 's a hell , thou shalt finde it , and there thy sinfull body shall suffer , who art seperated from god. heaven is gods throne , which the saints do enjoy ( he that can receive it , let him ) but thou art shut out of it , and that which asketh the question shall never know it , for thou art without the gate , as i said to thee before . and whereas thou wouldst know how the wicked should be tormented ; here thou wouldst learn thy porcion , rev. . , . with that fier that cannot be quenched ; look upon fier and brimston and it may teach thee , and thou mayst read thy figure daily . whereas thou wouldst know , if every saint and devil have a particular body , thou art of the particular body of the mystery of iniquity ▪ thess . . . who art to be tormented from the presence of the lord god almighty , and the lamb , and all his saints and angels , rev. . . and if thou call that a locall place , take it . the saints shall stand upon mount sion , who are redeemed from the earth by the blood of iesus christ , who sings hallelujah for evermore . rev. . . rev. . . whose body is but one , and christ is the head of the body , col. . . if thou hast an eare thou mayst hear , for without this body thou art kept , from making any division , thess . . . thou enemy of god , and man of sin , for destruction thou art ordained , to go therein , thy fear of it doth begin , and the lake that burneth , and the pit thou art for to be turned into eternally : thou shalt know me that i speak the truth , for whosoever thou art called by name , thy spirit i know ▪ query . whether iesus christ be the eternall father , and fullest fountain of bliss , and that besides him , and above him there is no god ? was he the first contriver , determiner , and former of all things ; the creator of every thing , the giver of every good gift ? or was he the begotten of the father ▪ so not the father , and fountain , but set apart from him , being by him when he gave to the sea his decree ; so christ is not truly god in the originall , but a son , being alwaies by the father , to see what works he doth , the son may do likewise ? is he but the gift , and dispensator , or maker-out of the fathers love to sinners , as a mediator and advocate betwixt the father and them ; so not the substance , and fountain in the bult and dignity . therefore what is christ ? hath he a body and the father none ? how may he be distinguished from the father ? so not the father : so no god , unless there be two or three distinct gods , and no more one god ? answ . whereas thou wouldst know , whether iesus christ be the eternall father , and fullest fountain of bliss ; thou serpent , thou askest a question , and art giving an answer thy self , as the serpent did , mich. . . cor. . . he is not thy eternall father that pu●st forth this query , nor fountain , for of another fountain thou drinkest , and bliss ( us thou calst it ) which is one of thy conjured words ; and thou sayst , besides him , and above him , there is no god : god was in christ reconciling the world to himself , . cor. . . he that hath an eare to hear let him hear . whereas thou wouldst know , whether christ was the first contriver , determiner , and former of all things ; him who is the first , and the last , shalt thou never know , but death and destruction , for thou art the contriver , determiner , and former ; who wouldst poynt out god a way , and who art contriving with thy serpentine wisdom , to intrude into the things of god , and to know god , and christ , col. . . who art cursed above all the beasts of the field , from god and christ , gen . . in the world thou mayst make a division , but betwixt god and christ , thou canst make none , as it is written , a virgin shall have a childe whose name shall be emmanuel , which is by interpretacion , god with us , math. ● . luke he that hath an eare to hear let him hear , but thou hast none , who art making divisions : he that is the father , is the giver of every good gift , and the creator of all things , and he that was in the father , and the father in him , by him were all things made , and by him doth all things consist , visible and invisible , col. . , . whereas thou askest if christ was the begotten of the father , which shews thou neither knowest the father nor the son , for he that knoweth him that did beget , knoweth him that is begotten of him , for the son is in the father , iohn . . who is not born by the will of man , and thou in thy will shalt never know him , iohn . , . for thou art herod that seekest to know , but it is to destroy , matth. . . if thou knewst the son thou wouldst know the father , who cannot be divided , for the father and the son are one , from whence all good and perfect gifts flow ; and as he sayd to the disciple , hast thou seen me and not seen the father , i am in the father , and the father in me , iohn . , . and he that hath the father hath the son , and if there come any among you , and bring any other doctrine , receive him not into your houses , neither bid him god speed . friend , thou art the subtle serpent , the tempter , who shewest forth thy presumptuous blasphemy ; thou sayst , christ is not truly god ; in that original thou hast no more knowledg of him than the outward original , for through thy subtlety thou hast conjured up these many queryes , which must go into perdicion again , who art making a differen● and distance betwixt god and christ ; for as i sayd to thee before , god was in christ reconciling the world to himself , and he that sees the son sees the father also , the mover of all things , and maker of all things ; but here with thy busie minde thy blindness and ignorance doth appear , who art scraping in hell to gather up your conjured stuff , who neither knowest god nor christ , and it is christ that you crucifie : friend , here thou sittest as a judg of the father and of christ ; thou enemy of god , who sayst , christ is not the father and fountain , but set apart from him , being by him when he gave to the sea his decree ; god was in christ who is both father and fountain , reconciling the world to himself , and it was he that gave to the sea its decree , and he that sees the son sees the father also , for the son is in him ; but thou that makest a difference to set god in one place and christ in another , art in the same nature that the iews had , that could not discern the father that spoke in him , as he sayd , it is not you , but the spirit of the father that speaketh in you , matth. . . but thou livest in philosophy and logick , which are of the devil , col. . . who art storming with thy reason , but truth hath comprehended thee , who art for destruction , thou high blasphemer and lucifer like : vvhereas thou askest whether is he but the gift , and dispensator and maker out of the fathers love to sinners ▪ as a mediator and advocate betwixt the fater and them ; he is him whom the father loveth , who is the mediator , who is thy destruction , god so loved the world that he gave his onely begotten son into the world , that whosoever believed on him should not perish but have everlasting life , iohn . . friend , thou art but querying to seed thy fleshly minde , who art one of them that crucifiest him , high in thy presumption , so to thee he is no mediator , and to thee he is no gift , nor made manifest , but art querying without of him , and one of them that say , lo here , and lo there , matth. . . and thy knowledg is the letter , and that is the original , and gift , and manifestacion , which is dust , which ●eeds thee serpent , which the curse is upon , and it is the seed of the woman that must bruise thy head , as god who hath promised and sayd , gen. . . and this must every one witness who witness christ , thou with thy evil eye lookest at christ and god at a distance , and the father and the son at a distance , as thou saydst before , he set him at a distance , which crosseth the life of christ , who sayd , i in thee , and thou in me , father as thou and i are one , iohn . . and he that hath the father hath the son , and the son is in the father , and in the fountain , but thou to this art ignorant , who art scraping with thy carnal reason , to get up to the highest pinnacle to tempt christ , who sittest as a judg upon the father and christ , and who crucifiest him , and knowest not god , but thou must be judged with him , even the spiritual man , and as it is written , the first man is of the earth , earthly , and the second is the lord from heaven , cor. . . but thou sayst , christ is not truly god ; o thou false judg ▪ who knowest neither god nor christ ▪ who art making a separacion betwixt the son and god , and who art setting christ at a distance , who sayth , he is in the father , and who makest a ly upon the scriptures , and speakest contrary to them , which thou callest the original , for it sayth , in the beginning was the word , and the word was god , and became flesh and dwelt amongst us , iohn . and they knew him not , no more do ye know him now , who dwels amongst us , but seek to crucifie him where ever he is made manifest , who hath his being in the father ; thou enemy of god and of all righteousness , who sayth so , not the substance ▪ and fountain in the bult and dignity , in thy bult and dignity he is not ; here thou hast shewed forth thy self , thou lyar , who sayst , christ is not in the bult ( as thou callest it ) and dignity , who presumptuously wouldst sit as a judg upon him to whom all power in heaven and earth is given , to the son , matth. . . who is in the fountain , and the fountain in him , who is in power and dignity , who shall overthrow thee and thy dignity , thou who art raced out from god and the son : and again thou queryest what is christ ▪ it is him thou crucifiest , and seekest to crucifie and slay ; and here thou tempter , who art without , art querying whether christ hath a body , and the father none , shewing thy self not to know the lords body , for the son is in the father , and they are one ; and with thy carnal eye lookest upon him to be like thy self ; if thou knowest his body thou knowest the fathers , for they are both one ; thou full of subtlety , who art querying how the son may be distinguished from the father , he that knows the son knows the father , and he that sees the son sees the father , for he is in the father , and they are not to be distinguished , but it is thou who art without , in the world , who art making many gods , as the world doth , cor. . . ier. ● . . and art distinguishing , who art distinguished from the father and the son , who art making and makest three gods , and knowst none , nor hast none but the god of the world to rule thee ; and here thou twining serpent , who art ensnaring art ensnared , who art full of subtlety , and catcht in thy wile , who hast been rabbling upon thou knowst not what with thy filthy minde , and talkest of thou dost not know what , so thou art turned and must be turned into that which to thee will be hot ; and the son and the father are one , i and my father are one , iohn . and not two , but to thee ; he that hath an ear let him hear , but here thou hast none , who hast a busie minde , medling with that which doth not concern thee , and so thou shewest thy self where thou art ▪ query . whether there be a pure and an eternal light in every male and female , if a true and saving light , in and to every one , how is it that there shall so many perish ? is satan stronger than god ? shall or can flesh and bloud quench and extenuate the spirit in his operacion , and so the arm of the almighty shortned , frustrated , and made void by the disobedience of flesh ? is there a power in every man as he is man , to be saved if he will ? answ . christ sayth , i am the light of the world that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . the one he loves the light , and brings his works to the light , and walks in the light , and to him there is no occasion of stumbling , iohn . , . and you that hate the light , you stumble , and know not whither you go , who hast put forth so many stumbling queryes , and with thy dark minde thou canst not comprehend the light , but light comprehends thee , and sees thy end and intent , which light shall be thy condemnacion , john . . and thou sayst , how is it that there shall so many perish ? that which asketh the question must perish ; who hates the light as thou dost , and gayusays the truth , shall perish as core did , iude . and the eternal pure light shall be thy condemnacion , in thy own mouth shalt thou be judged , who livest in the disobedience of the pure light , and slightest his mercyes , and turnest the free grace of god into wantonness ; the mouth of the lord of hosts hath spoken it , who is the lord god of heaven and earth , and my arm is not shortned , sayth the lord ; and satan is exalted above all that is called god in thee ▪ thess . . . thou son of perdicion , and that which is of god in thee is imprisoned , and thou with thy fleshly minde crucifiest the just , and quenchest the spirit , as the iews did who crucified christ , as thou readest in the letter , iohn . and in that generacion thou art , if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , thou enemy of god hast none , who crucifiest christ now , who art he that frustratest ▪ and quenchest the spirit , who must be consumed with the breath of his mouth , and destroyed by the brightness of his coming : thou queryest whether there be a power in every man as to be saved if he will ; here thou subtlety who art ditted full of eearth hast shewed forth thy ignorance of the power of god , tim. . , . man in his will would be saved , as thou wouldst , but the power of god is contrary to thy will and destroys it , which saves , and as many as receives christ , to them he gives power to become the sons of god , iohn . . but here thou son of perdicion hast made manifest thy self , not to love christ , nor receive him , therefore thou wantst power , and there thou hast shewed thy self to be that wicked and slothfull servant which hidest thy talent in the earth , matth. . . and there is that light and power in every man , which if he take heed to it , and wait within , there he shall finde his saviour , pet. . . but if he hate this pure eternal light , it shall condem him eternally whose deeds are evil , iohn . . as thine is , and so all stumbling is by being disobedient to the light , as the iews who stumbled at christ ▪ who sayd , he was the light that enlightneth every one that cometh into world , so thou dost now at the same light , which shall be thy condemnacion , eternally thou shalt witness me ; it is the same light as ever was : to that which should exercise your consciences do i speak , which will witness me , and condemn you , though god is greater than conscience . query . whether there shall be a general resurrection of all flesh , all summoned to one place , and to what place , to receive a tru and du sentence of iudgment , yea or no ? answ . christ iesus is the resurrection of the just and unjust , some to salvacion , and some to condemnacion , the same that saves the same condemns , matth. . , , , . and thou desirest to know the place , it is the day that god will judg thee and the world in righteousness , whom he hath ordained ; thou busie fellow who art querying of others condicions of the world without thee , but it is that thou fool mightst utter forth thy folly , and here thou hast made it appear , and in thy queryes thou art little wiser , and there is a place where thou shalt finde a judg , and his trumpet is sounding , but thou art deaf yet , and canst not hear it , and the sumpter-horse is gone forth . query . whether may the scriptures by the spirit of god be opened , and unfolded , and expounded to the people , yea or no ? ans . here thou serpent art full of subtlety , high-priest like , under a colour comest and wouldst be taught , but in thy other queryes thou art teaching and judging , and thou didst shew thy selfe to be one that didst not know the light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , and what dost thou talk of opening the scripture , who hates the light and stumblest at it , and art disobedient to the spirit , col. . . to it thou art an enemy , ephes . . . but it is that thou mayest be kept in the high place of wickedness , ephes . . . but by them who dwell in the light thou art comprehended and taken in the snare , and art without the truth of god , and an enemy to that which should guide thee , and to be a cloud without water , iude . and the same spirit where it is made manifest , and lived in , and walked in , and not the lusts of the flesh , it opens the scriptures in the people , and fulfils them , for it is the same that gave them forth , and where this is witnessed it needs not be queryed , whether it opens the scripture to the people or no , for it doth open them in the people and to the people , but thou art without the gate of truth , what is this to thee , one that art without , stumblest at the light , a childe of disobedience , whom the wrath of god abides upon , iohn . . but it is the serpent that would be wise , and wouldst paint thy self with other mens words , who pretendest to have the spirit , but art a deceiver in the world , in thy fathers kingdom , and dominion , and this shalt thou see when thou ownest the light , which is thy condemnacion , and witnessest me to speak the truth . george fox . finis . certain queries given forth from one robert lucas , of kellet in lancashire , who is wise in his own conceit , professing in words that he knows something , but i● here found out to know nothing but what he knows naturally , as a bruit beast , and in those things hath corrupted himself , as iude ▪ and that through his wrath , bitterness , envy , and malice ▪ against the wonderfull and mighty power of god , which he hath manifested in his people , which now makes the devil to rage , persecute ▪ and blaspheme , and to set all his servants a work , to tempt , to minister questions , to despise , falsly accuse , and to slander , and contemn all those who are redeemed from the earth , and are servants to the living god , and walk in the truth ; judging , and condemning , and overturning all those who profess the truth in words but walk contrary : which questions were propounded to one who is despised of the despisers for the truths sake , whose name among men is richard hubberthorn , but are answered by the spirit of the lord , from the mouth of the lord , as followeth : i have here received a paper , whose name subscribed to it is robert lucas , in which are many unlearned queryes , proceeding from the subtle minde , serpent-like ▪ which minde is full of mischief , and dark , about questions and strife of words , tim. . . being full of darkness , and in them are many temptations ; yet because thou fool shouldst not be exalted in thy pride and foolery , a few things in answer i have given forth to the uttering forth of thy foolery , thou that hast been a professor so ▪ long , and art querying what faith is , and whether faith be attained by hearing the word preached , and whether all men have not faith , and whether it is possible to please god without faith ; and thou queryest how christ is in man , and whether any be elected to salvacion , and whether all men be conceived in sin ▪ and queryest how it is done away : after thou hast shewed forth thy foolishness , thy blindness , and thy ignorance , as not knowing any thing , thou hast made a profession of christ , and here thou shewest thou knowst him not : for shame give over thy profession , and lay thy hand upon thy mouth and be silent ; but to us the uttering forth thy folly is serviceable , as it is written , fools are uttering forth their folly , and thou hast shewed thy self to be one , prov. . . query . what faith is ? answ . faith is the gift of god , and that which asks the question is without , and shall never know it , for thou art a reprobate concerning it , the faith , and art one of them that art ever learning , and led away with divers lusts , never able to come to the knowledg of the truth , tim. . . faith is that which leads out of the world , up to god , from all the worlds teachers , john . . and denyes all them as christ did , and doth , who are called of men master , and stand praying in the synagogue , and which lay heavy burdens upon the people , which wo was pronounced upon , matth. . and is upon all such now , he that hath an ear to hear let him hear the mystery of faith , tim. . . query . whether is faith obtained by hearing the word preached ? answ . hast thou been a hearer so long , and art querying whether faith cometh by hearing of the word preached , rom. . . it shews forth thy subtlety , serpent like thou feedest upon dust , which is the letter , and the word thou never heardst , the word which is god , and faith is the gift of god , and comes by the hearing of the word , and the word became flesh , john . . but thou art in the generacion of them that ever persecuted them that heard this word , where it spoke forth , and as for thee , thy faith is vain , thou art yet in thy sins , cor. . . query . whether have all men faith ? answ . no , thou hast none , but art vain in thy imaginacions , but as i sayd before , thou art a reprobate concerning the faith , . tim. . . and thou art one of them that art unreasonable , thess . . ● . which have not faith , which the apostle prayed to be delivered from , and thou that doubts art damned already , rom. . . query . whether is it possible for any man to please god without faith ? answ . thou canst not please god , for thou hast not faith , for whatsoever is not of faith is sin , rom. . . and all that ever thou dost is sin , all thy profession , all thy reading , all thy hearing , and all thy praying is abominacion to the lord , for they are not offered up from the pure heart , but thy heart is rotten , filthy , and corrupt , and all thy hearing , and all thy pratling of that thou callest the word , by it thou shalt never get faith , which is the gift of god , but it is all the serpents meat which feeds thee ; thou serpent which art cursed above all the beasts of the field , who in these queryes hast shewed forth thy subtlety and temptations , matth. . . who wouldst have us to deny the scripture , but it is ours , we own it , heb. . . and thee we do deny , for thou art without the life of it , as the subtle serpents were which tempted christ , canst thou deny it ? but thou holdest up such as have the chiefest place in the assemblyes , and stand praying there , and with pretence make long prayers , and lays heavy burdens upon the people , and called of men master , which christ forbids ; and these are thy teachers of the word , and ministers of the gospel , as thou callest them , but ye are antichrists and enemies to all the commands of christ ; o thou blinde hypocrite , and dark beast , why dost thou question things contrary to the scripture ? but thou wouldst make a lye of it as ever thou and thy fathers did , john . . query . how is christ in man ? answ . o thou carnal man , and enemy of christ ! dost thou query how christ is in man ? thou art of the same minde with the jews which doubted whether that was the christ yea or no : light shines in darkness and darkness doth not comprehend it , iohn . . i am the light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . and that light shall condemn thee , who stumblest at it , being without god in the world , it shall be thy condemnacion , the light , for thou walkst in darkness , and knowst not whither thou goest , but art led with thy blinde guides , and both shall fall into the ditch together , matth. . . query . whether christ as christ be in all men ? answ . no , in thee and thy dark understanding there is no room for christ , for thou art one of them that hates the light , which light is christ , which hath enlightned every one that comes into the world , which is the condemnacion of thee and all the world , and thou art one of the builders , mark . . that buildeth and stumbleth , and rejecteth the corner-stone , acts . . pet. . , . who livest above the light in thee , in thy vain imaginacions , which light should guide thee to the father , which light thou stumblest at , and hatest , and dost not obey , so in flames of fier will he render vengeance upon , all such as thou art , who do not obey the gospel of our lord jesus christ , thess . . . and do not wait for his appearance . query . whether hath god elected any to salvation ? answ . we are elected to salvation , we have the witness within us , prayses be to the glorious lord god for ever , who hath elected and chosen us , before the foundacion of the world ; but thou art ordained of old for condemnacion and for perdicion among the ungodly ones , and art a reprobate , one that hates christ , and art blinde , doting about questions and strife of words , tim. . . in that untoward generacion which the apostle prayed that the saints might be kept from . i know thy spirit , it is tryed to be the spirit of antichrist , and the spirit of error , which is in the world , which the wo is to , and that is thy porcion , read iude . query . whether hath any man , or but onely he that is elected to salvacion , a sufficient light in himself , to lead him to christ ? answ . here thou stumblest again at the light , asking whether every man have a sufficient light to lead them to christ , when christ sayth , i am the light of the world , iohn . . and enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , iohn . . one he loves the light , and walks in it , and is a childe of light , and there is no occasion at all of stumbling , iohn . . the other he hates the light , because his deeds are evil , and will not come to the light , lest the light should reprove him , iohn . , , . which light would lead to the father of light , living in it , and taking heed to it , which light shall condemn thee , and all who hate it , whose deeds are evil ; there thou art to be condemned by the light , which would teach thee , and draw thee out of the world , and from all the teachers of the world , and would lead thee up to salvacion , but thou hatest it , therefore it is thy condemnacion , that lovest darkness more than light , following thy own imaginacions , which are raced out from god for ever , and which light shall be thy condemnacion from god , iohn . . query . what is original sin ? answ . that which thou livest in is the root and author of all sin , so if thou canst read thy self thou mayst know what originall sin is , as thou calst it , which is cast out from god , and shall never enter into god , where thou , and all you are , who are disobedient to the commands of god , and stumble at the light , because it will overthrow thy pride and high-mindedness , who art lucifer-like , tempting with thy queries , as the serpent did eve , gen. . . so here thou art cursed , and cast out eternally . query . whether all men are conceived in sin. ? thou art conceived in all sin , and livest in iniquity . what hast thou to do to meddle with other men ? stop thy mouth with that , thou evil-beast , and slow-belly , whose mouth must now be stopt , tit. . . . query . how is it done away ? it is done away in destroying of thee , thou man of sin , and enemy unto all righteonsness , and son of perdicion , whom iesus christ shall consume with the spirit of his mouth , and destroy with the brightness of his comming , thes . . . but this thou man of sin putst far from thee , verse . but this shalt thou know , before thou know thy sin taken away , and witness thy queries to be vain : thou dost not yet know sin taken away , but livest in iniquity and sin , which thou wast brought forth in ; and as a theif thou hast named christ , but not departed from iniquity , tim. . . and christ comes to destroy the work 's of the devil , iohn . . . query . whether is it a righteousness in christ imputed unto us by faith ? or a righteousness of works in our selves , by which wee are justified before god ? answ . here thou hast tempted to thy own destruction , for thou art not yet come to know the righteousness of the law of works in thy selfe , nor the state of the first covenant , and the faith of god thou art a reprobate to , which justifies alone without imputacion , rom. . . and thy imputed faith we utterly deny , which faith is dead without works , and thou art dead both to faith and works , and thy imputacion to thy dead works without thee , we do deny , rom. . . . for that is your cloak for your sin and filthyness : abraham , to whom the imputacion was spoken , he was come from his fathers house , which thou art not , and he was a freind of god , which thou art an enimy to , rom. . ● . and god will wound the head of all his enemies , psal . . . for thou hast not faith , we are witnesses against thee ; the righteousness of god , which is by faith of jesus christ , rom. . . this we own , which was witnessed of , by the law and prophets , therefore we are witnesses against thee , and all thy blinde guides , to be without the faith of jesus , and the prophets , the law , and not yet come to see the death reign in thee , which hath passed over all men , and there thou art , as it is written , death reigned from adam till moses , and death and destruction saith , wee have heard of the fame thereof with our eares , and this is thee , iob . . and thou mayst read the chapter through it is serv●cable to thee query . whether a man may keep the whole law ? answ . thou askest a question , whether a man may keep the whole law , as though thou wast affraid , and durst not keep the law ; if i should say yea , thy master would be angry with thee , for thou and thy master sayth nay : our master christ iesus is the end of the law , and fulfileth the law in us who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit , which makes us free from the law of sin and death , rom. . . and we love god because we keep his commandements , iohn . . and to us they are not greevious ; and god saith , if yee love me , keep my commandements , iohn . . iohn . . and thou askest a question , whether a man may keep his law , here thou hast shewed thy self to be one that hath cast his law behinde thy back , for god cals for the walking in , and keeping of his law : and thou queriest whether a man may keep it or no , therefore thou hast cast away the law of god , and despisest the word of the holy one of israel , esay . . query . whether christ is an advocate for all beleevers , if some be without sin ? answ . thou full of all subtilty , and full of sin , and tempter , christ is the advocate for all beleevers , and doth take away their sins , and destroyes the works of the devil , which are yet standing in thee , therfore dost thou stumble at the scriptures ; and here hast thou shown forth thy envy , kain-like : i know the intent of thy queries , and the mischeif of thy minde , who art in the generacion of kain , seeking to slay the righteous seed which cannot sin , but thou that sinnest art of the devil , iohn . . . and ther is no mediator for thee , but thou art for destruction , for thou that sinnest art of the devil , and never kn●wst god , but art a transgressor of the law , iohn . . to that in thy conscience do i speak query . whether is the blood of iesus christ , that was shed upon the cross at ierusalem , the price that bought us ? answ . in the query thou pervertest the scripture , and the same minde thou hast there that the pharises had . the blood of christ is but one , as ever t was , by which we are redeemed from our vain conversacion , and by which all are redeemed , ephes . . . which thou makest light of , who livest in thy vain minde and conversacion , for this blood is our witness , and seal , by which we are redeemed , but not at ierusalem only , but made manifest in us ; glory glory , to the lord god for ever , who hath begotten us from the dead , and brought us again by the resurrection of jesus ; and the same dost thou seek to crucifie now , math. . . the same minde being in thee as was in them that crucified him at ierusalem : and the saviour thou lookest for at ierusalem , his blood is upon thee , as it was upon the jewes , and the price of blood thou knowest not no not in the first covenant , nor the blood of lambs and of the goat● , which was a figure of the everlasting covenant , which makes perfect ; but thou art one of the filthy swine , wallowing in the mire , and without are dogs , rev. ● . . query . whether is faith counted for righteousness to him that beleiveth ? answ . faith is righteousness , and was counted to abraham for righteousness , rom. . . and is so still with them who are of abraham : and the righteousnesse of faith speaks on this wise , not to say in thy heart , who shall ascend into heaven , that is , to bring christ down from above ; or who shall descend into the deep , that is , to bring up christ from the dead : but what saith it , the word is nigh thee , even in thy mouth , and in thy heart : this is the word of faith which we preach , rom. . , . and this we witness , and are witnesses against thee , and all thy train , who are reprobates concerning the faith , tim. . . and know not abraham , but draw out from the word within , for where faith is , it is walked in , and it purifies the heart , and brings to walk in the steps of abraham ; but thou as a busie fellow art querying whether faith be counted for righteousness to him that beleiveth , wherby thou wouldst have an addicion to the scripture , or wouldst have it wrested , or wouldst thou have us to speak contrary to the scriptures ? for it we witness , and the righteousness of faith we witness , rom. . . . . . and if thou shouldest say the same , we know thee to be a lyar , as they that did swear god lived , and swore falsly , because we know thee to know nothing of it , but as the history speaks , who hast showed thy self here to be an antichrist , one of them that hath the form but not the power which ever is to be turned away from , tim. . iohn . query whether hath not christ ordained a ministry in his church ? answ . christ is the minister to the church , heb. . . he is the head of the body , and saviour , he is the members and the head of the body the church , col. . he hath ordained a ministry , but it is that which thou art an enemy to ; what is it to thee what is in the church of christ , for thou art an enemy to the church of christ , for thou art in the worlds assemblies , and among the hyerlings , going in the way of cain , and after the error of balaam , iude . which the wo was to , and among them which are called of men masters , which are pearkt up into the cheifest place of the assemblies , which were enemies to christ , which bee cryed wo against , math read thy porcion , and thy church there query , whether did the apostle paul command timothy to ordain ministers , by laying on of hands ? and whether timothy himselfe , was not so ordained ? anws , whereas thou wouldst know whether timothy ordained ministers by laying on of hands ; the same that made him a minister , the same ordained other ministers , by laying on of the same hand ; if thou hast an eare thou mayst heare , for it is one word of life which the same hand layd on : what their eyes saw , what was from the beginning , iohn . which was made manifest , which was the word of life , which was made manifest even from the begining , which they did declare ▪ but freind , what is this to thee for the maintaining of thy imitacion , and the likeness of it , and thy laying on of hands , which thy ministers imitate , who walk out of the steps of christ , and of the apostles , and are made ministers by the w●ll of man , and your laying on of hands is by the will of man , and your ordinacion stands cut by the will of man , which is all carnall , and we do deny it all , as the apostles did , who denyed the carnall commandements , col query , whether hath not chrst ordained a maintenance for that ministry ? answ , they that preach the gospel , live of the gospel , cor and freely they have received , freely do they give , ma● and he that ministers spirituall things to the brethren , they minister unto him carnall things , rom . . but freind what is this to thee to maintain thy church , and thy ministers , who bear rule by their means , and who goest in the error of balaam , receiving the wages of unrighteousness , jude . and who su men at the law that will not pay them . a horrible filthy thing is committed in the land , jer. . , . by those who profess themselves to be ministers of the gospel , which it is slandred by you all , and iesus christ his worthy name is dishonoured and blasphemed by you all , and these are the ministers of thy church who are ordained by laying on of your hands , who walk contrary to christ and the apostles , for they did never su men at the law ; here under a colour thou askest whether christ hath not ordained a maintainance for that ministery , whereby thou wouldst have a cloak to maintain the ministers of the world , which seek for their gain from their quarter , ier. . which the lords prophets cryed against , and seek for the fliece which ezekiel cryed against , ezek. . , . and hierlings which micah cryed against , micah . . and them that loves the wages of unrighteousness , which the apostle cryed wo against , iude . and the wo is upon thee now , which standest up for balaam with a colour . query . whether were tithes payd before the levitical priesthood , and when ? and how dost thou prove by scripture they were taken away ? answ . abraham payd tithes , and the levites received tithes , and they that are the sons of levi , who receive the offices of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes of the people , according to the law , that is , of their brethren ; but the priesthood being changed , there is also a necessity of changing the law , heb. . . and here is a proof for thee , and here i prove thee to be under the curse , and to stand up for the law , and to be a deceiver , and an antichrist , because thou deniest christ come in the ●lesh , iohn . . and there thou art holding up that which christ came to put an end to ; and here i will prove all your teachers ( as y●u call them ) to be without christ , and that christ never sent them ▪ for whom he sent forth he sayd unto them , freely ye have received , freely give : and what a stir is here for your tithes , and gifts , and augmentacions , you make it manifest where your heart is ; for you are wrangling for these things which are earthly , and su men at the law , contrary to christs command , and the apostles practise , who coveted no mans gold nor silver , god was their witness ; and here you are raced out from christ , and from all the servants of god , for they that are such serve not our lord jesus christ but their own belly , rom. . . whose glory is their shame , who minde earthly things , phil. . . evil beasts , and slow-belleys , whose end is destruction . query . whether did christ command his disciples to baptize with water ? and whether did they baptize with water ? answ . here thou hast shewed forth thy subtlety , that thou art ignorant of the letter , what dost thou reade in the letter , christ sent them forth and bade them go teach all nacions , baptising them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , matth. . . the baptism and water we witness , iohn . . for the water is a witness which the apostles baptized withall , iohn . . he that hath an ear let him hear , but thou hast none , neither didst thou ever come to this baptism , christ did not send forth his disciples to sprinkle a little durty water upon childrens faces , as your filthy dreamers do , and tell them it is an ordinance of christ , who are lyars of him , for christ did not mencion any water to his disciples when he sent them forth , but bade them teach the people all things whatsoever he had commanded them , and sayd ▪ he was with them to the end of the world : in this query i see thy intent , thou wouldst have a cloak to hold up thy beastical tradicions which never were commanded , thou eenemy of god ; and with thy carnal tradicions and beggerly rudiments thou art full of earth , pleading for the earthly tradicions and commandments , and keepest poor people in ignorance and blindness in those things god never commanded ; and here the plagues of god are added to thee , who addest to the prophecy written in this book , rev. ● . . query . when christ commanded his apostles to baptize all naci●●s , where do you finde children excepted ? answ . in thy query before thou askedst , whether christ did command his disciples to baptize with water , now thou sayst in thy next query , when christ commanded his apostles to baptise all nacions ; here thou full of all subtlety , who layest snares , and art taken in thy snare ▪ what hast thou to do to talk of christs baptism , or the apostles ? seeing thou walkest contrary to them all ▪ and with them wouldst make a cloak to hold up another thing which christ never commanded , as to sprinkle infants , for sayth he , believe and be baptized , to the washing away of sin , which thou art full of , and livest in ; first they were to be preached to , and to come to repentance , and to believe and be baptized ; but thou dark sot , what is this to thee in maintaining of the sprinkling of infants with a little water , who understand nothing ? all thy baptism i do utterly deny , they are excepted , thou and all are excepted , but the seed ; and the promise is to the seed not of seeds as of many , but one , gal : . he that hath an ear to hear let him hear ; but thou art dead in thy sins , and uncircumcised in heart , and knowest no baptism but the sprinkliug of infants , which christ never commanded , and livest in the lust of thy ignorance , having thy understanding darkned , being alienated from the life of god , & art a stranger from the covenant of promise , a child of disobedience , who the wrath of god abides upon , eph. . query . whether was not christ baptied with water , who was above both faith and repentance ? answ . thou hypocrite , what is this to thee ? to the sprinkling of infants with water , who are neither come to faith nor repentance , who thirty or forty years after dost tell them of faith and repentance , who knowest neither thy self ; and what hast thou to do to talk of jesus who went out of the water , matth. . . and so the heavens were opened , and he saw the spirit of god , mark . , . but this makes thee never the wiser in thy fleshly understanding , for thy curious minde and fleshly understanding is to be destroyed before thou come to know this baptism , for thou art in the nature of herod , that queryed for the childe to see him that he might worship him , but would have destroyed him : but for the simple ones sakes have i discovered thee and made thee bare and naked . query . whether did not christ institute his last supper with bread and wine ? answ . christ doth not speak of bread and wine , but he took bread , and brake it , and sayd , it was his body ; and he took the cup when he had given thanks he gave it to them , and they did drink all of it , and he sayd unto them , this is my bloud of the new testament which is shed for many , mark . ● . and this i have witnessed , and we witness the breaking of the bread , which is his body , and drinking the cup which is his bloud , luke . , . for weare many members and but one body , but the cup which thou drinkest we do deny , for thy cup is the cup of devils , and thy table is the table of devils , cor. . , , . which is an idol and imitacion , and thy sacrifice is to devils , and not to god ; and as the apostle sayd , i would not you have fellowship with devils , cor. . . for do not drunkards meet at thy table , and swearers , cursed speakers , and fighters , and who follow all manner of filthy pleasures , and idolaters , and covetous , who live in all manner of pride and filthiness , and these are thy companions , and thy fellowship at thy table ; and what hast thou to do to talk of the cup of christ , who sits at the table of devils , and drinks the cup of devils , cor. . . query . whether did not paul administer the lords supper to the corinthians with bread and wine ? answ . thou carnal sot , where did the apostle give to the corinthians bread and wine ? did not the apostle say , the cup of blessing which we bless is it not the communion of the bloud of christ , the bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of christ ? ● cor. . , . for we being many are one bread , and one body , for we are all partakers of that one bread ; we witness this , who cannot drink the cup of devils , nor sit at their table , where thou dost , for it is forbidden , cor. . . qu. of what concernment is it to others , and how long to continu in the church , seeing the apostle sayth , [ as oft as you eat of this bread ▪ and drink of this cup , you shew forth the lords death till he come ? ] answ . thou desi●est to know of what concernment it is to others , he that eateth and drinketh , not discerning the lords body , eateth and drinketh domnacion to himself , untill the lord come , cor : . . thou askest how long it shall continu in the church , this bread and this cup doth continu for ever in the church ; it is so , as oft as they eat of this bread and drink of this cup , they shew forth the lords death till he come , cor. . . but friend , what hast thou to do to talk of this who art in the generacion of them that were enemies to christ , holding up the chief priests which sought to put him to death , who perswaded the multitude against him , matth : : and who perswaded the rulers against him , iohn : so do all thy priests now , where he is made manifest , and in that church thou art , as thou callest it , and of the same nature of them who ever sought to destroy the just : this cup thou never tastedst of , nor of the bread , but they were them that were gathered off from the priests , and from the temple , whom this was spoken to , for these were figures of the substance : but friend , all thy imitacions , and priests , and suppers , and bread , and wine , is an imitacion , & an image , which is the likeness of a thing which the lord forbids , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing , and thou that eatest and drinkest not discerning the lords body , eatest and drinkest damnacion to thy self cor. . . and there thou art query whether the scripture beeing carnall , and the letter killing , as you say , wee may read them without danger ? answ . the letter which killeth , cor. . . is dangerous , for thou takest it here to warr withall against the saints , with thy carnall minde , giving out thy carnall exposicions upon it , and the ministers of the letter are the ministers of death , which is to condemnacion , and you take it to make a trade with it , and with what the prophets , christ , and apostles sayd ; and again you take it to make a trade upon it , so that some have , some , some , some , some a pounds a year : where was ever such things practised , or heard of , amongst all your fathers the false prophets ! you do exceed them all in wickedness , and paint your selves , and are hyerlings , and get up in the room of christ : you seem like christ in words , having painted your selves with christs words , and the apostles words , but christ cryed wo unto such whited wals : and here you read with danger , who speak of them and speak a lye , ier . because you speak not what is in you , because you speak of your selves ; and it is dangerous to read that , and to make a trade of that which the prophets , christ , and the apostles spoke forth freely , and to give meanings to it contrary then it is , and to raise poynts , tryalls , and motives , and uses ; here is adding , and the curses and plagues , are added to him that adds to the prophesie written in this book , and there you are , for destruction is your porcion , rev. . . but i say , blessed is he that doth read , and doth understand , and he that doth neither add , nor diminish , for he walks in the paths of the prophets , of christ , and the apostles , and in the steps of abraham ; and the apostle said , i charge you by the lord , that this epistle be read among all the holy brethren , but you are ignorant and unlearned , pet : : : and you wrest the scriptures to your own destruction ▪ psal : : : and to you it is dangerous to read or speak of it , who know not the life of it , even as the pharises , who were learned in the letter , but knew not christ ; and some of the apostles who were not learned men in the letter , did not wrest the scriptures , as the same peter , was learned in the life , though not in the letter : but you are in the state of the hypocrits and serpents , which garnish the sepulchers of the righteous : fill yee up the measure of your fathers : yee serpents , yee generacion of vipers , how can you escape the damnacion of hell , matth : : ● : ▪ and the letter is carnall , and killeth , and dust is the serpents meat , gen : : : and that is thy meat ; and cursed is the serpent which beguiles , and thou art he : look not for him without thee , for he is in the letter , and you get the letter into your mouths , and come and say , the lord saith , when he never spoke to you : wo is unto you , and the harlot which is dect with so many colours , and there you are , read your own porcion , destruction : he that hath the same spirit that gave the scriptures forth , reads them without conceivings , or imaginacions ▪ and witnesses them fulfilled , but thou art proud , and livest in thy imaginacions and conceivings , and thou conceivest of the letter , and whatsoever thou buildest must be scattered , luke : , : so to thee it is dangerous . query . whether they were written for our instruction , and are profitable , that we may be throughly furnished ? answ . they are for the perfecting of the man of god , for the furnishing of him through faith in christ jesus ; and they were written to instruct them whom they were written to , which had an eye to see them , and an eare to hear them , and an heart to understand ; whom the apostles spoke to for instruction , till the ends of the world was come ; and they are for instruction , to instruct & to admonish , but not to make a trade of : but freind to thee i speak in this query , thou art a tempter , and that minde in thee knowes nothing of them , that they were not spoken forth to instruct , for that is for destruction , for look within thy self , and thou wilt see thou art full of corrupcion , and the man of sin , and he it is that talks and prattles of the scripture , who must be consumed , but wee witness that they are for the perfecting of the man of god , through faith in christ iesus , for to convince , and to reprove , and to instruct , but not thee thou man of sin , and son of perdicion , who sitest in the temple of god , above all that is called god , and gattest the form of words , and deceivest the simple , as a coloured beast , and the plagues of god are thy due and porcion : for thy instruction they were not written , who walkest contrary to the commands of god who art exalted above all that which is called god in thee , in whom the mystery of iniquity , lodgeth , and the son of perdicion , which shall be destroyed thess . ● . query . wherefore doth christ command iohn to write to the angell of the churches , in the revelacions , and not teach immediatly himself , seeing you tell us that god immediatly teacheth his people , and that all men have this teacher within them ? answ : thou enemy of christ , and of all righteousness , what hast thou to do to question christs commanding iohn ? thou full of all subtlety , and busie fellow , what hast thou to do to question christ , who art exalted above all that is called god ; here thou shewest thou would not have him to reign : the same that spoke to iohn was immediate , and that which iohn spoke was immediate ; if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear what iohn spoke to the church ; but i see thy intent in thy query , to me thou art discovered , for in thy query thou wouldst have a cloak to keep up the teachers of the world , and your imitated churches , who walkest in the path contrary to christ and all his apostles : god immediatly doth teach his people by his spirit , by which he draws them up to himself into the everlasting covenant , heb. . by which they need no man to teach them , iohn . and every one is enlightned with the light , which is christ ; but all such blinde guides as your teachers are , who draw people from this light within them , to hearken to their imaginacions of the letter without you ; such i say do bewitch them , and draw them into the uncleanness , and into the flesh that the fruits of it shews it self , gal : . drunkenness , fighting , wrangling , quarrelling , railing , disputing , and slandering , envying , persecuting , lying , swearing , and taking the name of god in vain , idle talking , and foolish jesting , scoffing , scorning , and mocking , and all manner of filthiness and uncleaness ; and these are they that are led from their teacher within them , which is the light , by you blinde watchmen , isai . , , from the light which is christ , which he hath enlightned them withall , and he that loves the light brings his works to the light , and there is no occasion of stumbling to him that walks in it , and loves it , and this light is not a chapter without , which the teachers of the world read , thou that hatest this light , thou hast it , it lets thee see that all thy deeds are evil , if thou bringst thy works to it , it will reprove thee , iohn . ● and this is the condemnacion of the world ; and here every one hath a teacher , whose mindes are informed : iohn . to that in every mans conscience do i speak , which should exercise it , which shall eternally witness me , and eternally condemn thee , and you all who are haters of light ; and what hast thou to do to talk of iohn , and of christ , and of the churches , and of the angels , and knowest not the first principle yet ? heb : . which should guide thee out of the world , and bring thee to repentance , but to this thou art an enemy to , and among the antichrists , which say , lo here , and lo there , matthew . query . why do you teach , exhort , write papers , and print books ? answ : in thy query before thou askest whether the scriptures were written for our instruction ; and now thou askest , why do we exhort and teach ; here thou shewest forth that thou art tormented , and thy terror begins : for our giving forth papers or printed books , it is from the immediate eternal spirit of god , to the shewing forth the filthy practises of the worlds teachers , and thine , who with a pretence and fair colours and glosses , and with a seeming religion deceives the simple , and thy own soul too ; we have bin long under captivity by you , and such as you , following your imaginacions , but god hath raised up a light within us , by which we see you deceivers without us , and all the blinde guides , matth : : . so for the simple ones sakes , who are led by the blinde , as we are moved by the immediat spirit of christ , to write , to teach , or to exhort , or to put in print , and this is it which doth torment thee , but it is but the beginning of thy sorrow , and this is from the immediat spirit of christ , which thou art offended withall , as ever the pharises were ; but thou shalt see more papers and more printings , and as the immediat spirit grows , there will be more abominacions , and filthiness layd open , and all deceit will be discovered , and the truth spread abroad and cherished , which will and doth trouble thee , as herod was when christ was born , matth : : query . what is conscience ? where is it seated in man ? and what is its office and duty ? answ : thou hard-hearted pharaoh , hast thou been a professor so long , and yet askest what is conscience ! thou full of subtlety , and tempter , it is that which thou makest shipwrack of , tim : : shut up from thy dark understanding , and thy dark reason ; it is seated below the hypocrisie in thee , thou art a tyrant to it , and rulest over it , yet in thy carnal knowledg thou wouldst know it to talk of it ; but plagues and curses are du to that nature , which thou must know before thou know the office or duty of it , as thou speakest , for yet thou art in the hardness of thy heart ; and here thou hast overturned thy self : thou hast before asked many queryes , but the intent is to maintain thy carnal state , which seares the conscience , the tender part in man : but friend , if thou hearken to the light , to that in thy conscience do i speak , cor. . . it will let thee see what conscience is , thou hard bea rt , and it will exercise thy conscience towards god and towards man , acts . and here shalt thou see its duty and office , and where it is seated , and by it how thy understanding is enlightned , and by it how thy heart is cleansed ; if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear ▪ thou that wouldst be taught what conscience is , and where it is seated ; for shame lay away thy filthy profession , who wouldst know where conscience is , it is under thy hypocrisie , who art comprehending conscience with thy carnal wisdom and reason , but thou must be confounded and condemned with that which should exercise thy conscience , cor : : and here thou hast shewed forth thou dost not know the first principle , but art without ▪ and one of them whose conscience is seared , tim : : query . if thou have the spirit of christ , and in a large measure , as some give out of thee , taking upon thee to be a teacher , as also sending many queryes to others ; i require of thee an answer to these queryes not in ambiguous and doubtfull terms , as the devil in his oracles , but in plain language affirmatively or negatively , full and clear according to the spirit in the gospel-times , that he that runs may reade it ; or else confess thou art led with a spirit of deceit and darkness which would not willingly descover it self ? answ : thou sayst , if i have the spirit of christ , which i have and witness it , but as taking upon me in the will to be a teacher as you are made teachers , that i do deny ; i do deny the will , and you both , cor : : and all who are made ministers by the will of man : but the sending forth queryes which grieve thee ▪ to others , is that you may shew forth your folly as you have done in answering them , by your dark minde which cannot comprehend the light , in which they are given forth , but shews forth your darkness , blindness , ignorance , and folly , and despight against the spirit of grace , being enemies to jesus christ which is the light in us , and hath discovered and layd open your deceits and blindness , and to all who have their eys in their head your folly is made manifest . tim : . and thou hast here discovered thy ignorance , and shewed forth thy folly in these queryes , thou dost require an answer to these queryes in plain language which thou hast sent . i have spoken plainly to thee , and not flattered thee ; and as touching ambiguous terms they are thy own , as the devil in his oracles , thou art guarded with them ; i comprehend thee , and see thy cloathing , and thy affirmative , and thy negative proceeds from thy cursed minde , but sound and clear i have answered thee , according to the spirit that is in the gospel , but to thy dark minde they will be dark , for thou neither knowest the spirit nor the gospel , for i have answered thee in the gospel-time , and he that hath the spirit may run and reade it , and reade thy spirit to be the spirit of error ▪ erred from all them that did preach the gospel , which ever were : we are not led by a spirit of error , but it we do deny , therefore we do deny thee ; therefore openly , and freely , and nakedly do i declare my self to the discovering of the spirit of error , which is in thee , and all thy blinde guides : who is led by the spirit of truth hath discovered you to be in the deceit , and in darkness , without god in the world , the plagues of god are to be poured upon the beast and the false prophet , and the beast and false prophet are to be cast into the fier , rev : . there is thy porcion ; now do not call this railing and rash judgment , for thou knowest the letter thunders , and speaks forth such words to such as thou art , who livest in that nature ; friend , this is thy day of visitacion , cor : . to that which is in thy conscience i have spoken , which shall eternally witness me , and condemn thee , cor : . the mouth of the lord of hosts hath spoken it . the preparacion of the heart in man , and the answer of the tongue ●● from the lord , prov : . finis . now all you who are doting about questions , and are ministers of questions , and not ministers of grace , nor edificacion , but are busi-bodyes , tempting , and laying snares , and digging pits , lye are now fallen into the pits which ye have digged for others , and you who are wise are taken in your own craftiness ▪ and you are now answered from the mouth of the lord , and discovered , and to every one is rendred his du and porcion ; but you sollowing the steps of your fathers the iews , you ( as they did marvel at his answers , though he was the son of god , luke . ) now you are answered , own your porcion , for i have kept back nothing , what i received freely from the lord , freely i have declared unto you without parciality , or having mens persons in admiracion , because of advantage , not favouring deceit , nor giving liberty to sin , for the lord hath given us a mouth , and wisdom , which all our gain-sayers are not able to resist , and we walk in the pure wisdom of god , and wisely towards you that are without , redeeming the time , and our speech is with grace , seasoned with salt , and we know how to answer every man , col : . , prayses , prayses to the lord for ever , who takes the wise in their craftiness , and confounds , and brings to shame all his enemyes , and discovers all serpents , with their twistings , and twinings , and subtle and cunning temptacions , and hath fulfilled his apostles words in his sons and daughters , in making their folly manifest to all men , and they shall proceed no further , tim : . and now the painted serpents , the well-favoured harlots , the divers coloured beasts , and the wily foxes , are discovered to his sons and daughters , that they cannot spoyl the tender plants which the lord himself hath planted in his peoples hearts , the plants of his renoun grows and flourisheth ; prayses , prayses to the eternal , powerfull god for ever . let all the sons and daughter of the lord prayse the lord ▪ let all the fathers and young men , children and servants bless and prayse the lord for ever , who reigns for evermore . richard hubberthorn . the baptist not babylonish, or the quakers tongue no slander being a brief reply to a foolish and scandalous pamphlet called the babylonish baptist. written by g.w. a quaker-teacher. wherein his malice, insolence, and ignorance is discovered and detected. and a book lately published, intituled, light from the sun of righteousness, is vindicated from those pretended contradictions, and groundless cavils made against it. h.g. grigg, henry. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the baptist not babylonish, or the quakers tongue no slander being a brief reply to a foolish and scandalous pamphlet called the babylonish baptist. written by g.w. a quaker-teacher. wherein his malice, insolence, and ignorance is discovered and detected. and a book lately published, intituled, light from the sun of righteousness, is vindicated from those pretended contradictions, and groundless cavils made against it. h.g. grigg, henry. [ ], p. printed in the year, . and to be sold by f. smith, at the elephant and castle near the royal exchange, london : [ ] a reply to: whitehead, george. babylonish baptist. h. g. = henry grigg. cf. wing. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng whitehead, george, ?- . -- babylonish baptist -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . inner light -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the baptist not babylonish , or the quakers tongue no slander . being a brief reply to a foolish and scandalous pamphlet called the babylonish baptist . written by g.w. a quaker-teacher . wherein his malice , insolence , and ignorance is discovered and detected . and a book lately published , intituled , light from the sun of righteousness , is vindicated from those pretended contradictions , and groundless cavils made against it . h. g. job . . how forcible are right words ! but what doth your arguing reprove ? tim. . . now as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so do these also resist the truth : men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith. london , printed in the year , . and to be sold by f. smith , at the elephant and castle near the royal exchange . the preface . christian reader : there is , as the wise man saith , no end of making many books ; and thou mayst ( 't is probable ) conclude that to undertake in and about controversies of religion of this nature is a fruitless and wearisom work , especially to have to do with those captious people called quakers . truly were not the glory of god , the fundamentals of christianity , and the everlasting well-being of the souls of men and women of such high concernment , i should not have set pen to paper upon this account , nor in the least have troubled my self in opposing the vile and evil doctrine of these foolish contradicting and confused people i am forced to have to do with at this time . if thou hast seen that little book i lately published , intituled , light from the sun of righteousness ; thou mayest clearly perceive , what weighty grounds and arguments stirr'd me up to undertake that matter ; and though thou mayst suppose that works of this kind do but tend to the feeding of that lying and deluding spirit which is in these deceived people , yet have we some good ground to judge that god hath blessed some former undertakings of this nature , to the great benefit and advantage of some poor souls ; and let none blame us for standing up in the defence of christ and the gospel , when the foundation of true religion and godliness is thus struck at . but to be short , this i can say and testifie in the presence of the great god ( in opposition to what g. w. doth suggest ) that i have not the least enmity nor hatred in my heart against the persons of any of these people called quakers , nor are we offended or troubled at their present liberty , ( as he seems to charge us ) though we cannot deny but their principles and unsound doctrines tend to the wounding and grieving of our souls , because we see daily , more and more , the dangerous and damnable nature thereof . and now as touching that foolish and ridiculous pamphlet put forth by g. w. wherein he labours to make the world believe that little else is contained in that book ( before mentioned ) save self-contradictions , i have been stirred up to offer these few lines by way of answer : wherein you have first , those things he calls contradictions set down verbatim ; and secondly , some reflections upon his absurd animadversions on the same , and i shall leave the unprejudiced reader to judge between us , and the issue to the almighty . farewel . a brief reply to a foolish and scandalous pamphlet , called the babylonish baptist . it may not be amiss , in the first place to inform thee ( whosoever thou art ) concerning the method g. w. hath taken in his answer to the aforesaid book , which is only a collection of several things ( in a confused and ridiculous manner ) therein contained , which he saith are contradictory to each other ; with some animadversions upon them , which in order i have set down exactly after his own fashion , as followeth . h. g. saith ( viz. ) i utterly deny that this light which all men have from the glorious creator , is a saving light , page . h. g. in contradiction saith , i really believe that the lord jesus as the eternal word , hath given light , or enlightned all men and women that come into the world , p. . g. w. his animadversion . the light , or life of the eternal word , which is the light of men , john . . is spiritual and divine , as is that word , and therefore saving , &c. reply . it seems to me , as if this man had lost his common reason . can he make any rational person believe , that these two places he mentions first of all , are contradictory to each other : because i deny that the light which is in all men is a saving light , and yet say in the second place , i really believe all have a light in them from christ considered as creatour , doth this contradict the former ? this can't be a contradiction , unless he can prove there is no light proceedings from the eternal word as creator , but what is saying . what though it be granted that the light which all men that come into the world are lighted with , flows from the eternal word , and so is spiritual , must it needs therefore be a saving light ? was not the law given forth on mount sinai , a light of , or which did come from the eternal word ? and doth not paul say , that the law is spiritual , rom. . ? and yet doth he not call it a ministration of death , cor. . ? and that it killed ? and doth he not , in gal. . . clearly shew that it could not give life ? and in other places , that there was no justification by it ? but i shall leave this to another time , and pass to the next thing you call a contradiction , viz. h. g. the great darkness of these men who cry up light and power within , this wile of satan and cheat of antichrist , p. . h. g. contra. the lord jesus , as the eternal word , inlighteneth all men . this light is the substance of the law , the candle of the lord. it doth convince sin , pag. . if heathens followed it they would shine in just living . the work of faith with power i do maintain that is required and must be wrought with power in the heart , pag. , . g.w. his animad . what horrible blasphemy is it then to term our crying up the light and power of christ within , the wile of satan , and cheat of antichrist , and how plainly hereby refuted ! &c. reply . this is the second thing you call a contradiction . i shall examine these places , that so your lyes and ignorance may be manifested . i say , the darkness of these men who cry up light and power within is great ; and i did say in pag. . i should make appear this wile of satan and cheat of antichrist ( that is to say ) the evil doctrine and principles of yours concerning the light within , as it immediately followeth , and is declared in the same page of the said book : and do i contradict this in affirming there is a light in all men called the candle of the lord , and in owning the inward work of faith with power upon the heart , & c ? because you seem so dark of apprehension , i shall shew you your dishonesty and willful mistake , and what little reason you have to cry down this for horrible blasphemy . ( george ) i did no where say , that it is great darkness , and a wile of satan , and cheat of antichrist , to own a light in every man , &c. for if so , thou mightest have had ground to have charged me with a contradiction . — but your great darkness , and that which i call a wile of satan , and cheat of antichrist , consists in your affirming that of this light which is utterly false , and contrary to the doctrine which is according to godliness , mentioned in the same page . do not you say , that this light which is in every man that cometh into the world is god , is christ , is the holy spirit , or the blessed comforter , and a saving light , and that it will convince a man of every sin and transgression , and lead into all truth , and cleanse from all sin , and eternally save those who walk up to it faithfully ? in this appears your great darkness , and herein you are beguiled and cheated by the devil , to the invalidating of the meritorious death and sufferings of our lord jesus christ ; as if there were no need or his blood to be poured forth , nor of his intercession ; nay , do you not hereby clearly deny his humane nature , or his real outward existence at his father's right hand in heaven above ? for , if he be nought else but light and spirit within , that of necessity follows : — but i shall proceed to that you call another of my contradictions , viz. h. g. observes from john . . that the spirit , or blessed comforter cannot be the saviour , pag. . h. g. contra. till the coming of his spirit and grace with power in my heart for the binding of the strong man satan , and killing my corruptions , my soul was not brought out of the horrible pit , page . having wrought this glorious work of regeneration , page . g. w. his animadversions . then it s the spirit and power of christ that effects and works salvation through the work of regeneration , titus . . which is not meerly by christs outward sufferings , though we cannot believe that satan is bound in this man while he is in satans work , blaspheming christs light within , and belying us . reply . what sober christian man can find any contradiction here against h. g ? is not g.w. the liar and false accuser ? i say the spirit , or blessed comforter cannot be the saviour , or mediatour , and yet i own the work and office of the comforter , and the work of grace with power upon the heart ; and is there any absurdity in this ? is this in the least inconsistent and contradictory to it self ? did i any where deny the effectual workings of the holy spirit , which in a wonderful nature works faith in the hearts of the regenerate , whereby he is inabled to apply the vertue of christ's blood and merits to his own soul ? and art thou not able to distinguish between the giver and the gift , between the fountain and the stream ? doth not christ say that he would send the comforter , and that the spirit of truth should proceed from the father and the son ? are there nor three that bear record in heaven ? answer plainly ; did the true saviour die on the cross or not ? i affirm once again , that neither the comforter , viz. the holy spirit , nor the deity of our lord jesus , distinct from his manhood or humane nature , could be the saviour and mediatour which died on the cross , or was crucified between the two thieves . but again it appears thou distinguishest not between the meritorious cause of mans salvation , and the instrumental ; the killing of the sacrifice , and the sprinkling of the blood ; the price paid for the captive , and the application of it ; the work and the office of the lord jesus , our alone saviour , who died to atone , make peace , and appease the wrath of god , so to redeem us ; and the work and office of the spirit which doth sanctifie and renew us : but dost ignorantly seem to affirm , that such distinctions are lies , and contradictions . but i must proceed . h. g. the ordinance of the lords supper you call bread and wine , pag. . h.g. contrad . the sign — the shadow ( speaking of these ordinances ) the substance being christ , pag. , . g. w. his animadversion . your pretended lords supper then is no more than bread and wine , the sign , the shadow ; and therefore their continuation of no necessity in the true church , which hath received christ the substance , &c. reply . the ordinance of the lords supper , which quakers reproachfully and contradictingly , ( as i have shewed in pag. . ) do call bread and wine ; doth remain in full force , and the practice of it to be kept up in the same manner as christ , the night before he was betrayed , instituted it , and the primitive saints received it , acts . . & chap. . , . cor. . , &c. i have clearly proved in the said book , pag. , , . to which i refer the reader ; and the stress of my arguments , thou mayst see , this man hath no wayes weakned , nor said any thing to , but would ( if he knew how ) make persons believe i contradict my self afterwards in calling it a sign , and speaking of sitting down under christ's shadow ; and in calling the ordinance of breaking bread and drinking of wine a sign , is no contradiction : for doth it not signifie the breaking of christ's body , and the pouring forth of his blood , and clearly , as a sign , hold forth his sufferings , and shew forth his death until he come ? which was one end of his instituting of it ; and hath it not been called by many faithful men ( long before his airy notions were midwiv'd into the world by the spirit of antichrist ) an outward sign of an inward spiritual grace ? he took the bread and blessed it , and said , this is my body , ( which the godly martyrs sealed with their blood ) to be a figurative speech , or that which was to shew forth his body broken for us , &c. 't is no marvel , reader , these men cavil against this ordinance , and deny it , who plainly deny him to be the christ who is signified thereby , as hereafter will appear more fully . and again , i would know of this man where he reads of any thing called the lord's supper , but this which we contend for ? and i do affirm that this ( and all other ordinances of christ ) is spiritual , a●d faith to be exercised by all that receive it . moreover , let none conclude ( whatsoever this man imagineth ) because the shadows and services of the mosaical law ended when christ the substance nailed them to his cross , that therefore gospel-ordinances did then cease likewise : for the ordinance of water-baptism was given forth by christ after his resurrection , mat. . . and this of the lord's supper , i have in that same book shewed , paul received of christ some time after his ascention , cor. . . but to pass this , and come to the next thing he cavils against , viz. h.g. the end of this ordinance doth remain notwithstanding the pourings forth of the spirit , and therefore the ordinance must needs remain , which is to confirm our faith in the true saviour , and to keep up our love to him , p. . g. w's answer . what kind of faith and love are these of theirs which are confirmed and kept up by bread and wine , and what idolatry and diversion from the spirit doth their doctrine tend to herein , surely the holy spirit can best supply the said end , gal. . . reply . we love him because he first loved us , and gave himself for us : and this ordinance is to be done in remembrance of him , and so tends to increase our love to him , and our faith in him ; and this is to be done also ( as i have shewed pag. . ) to shew forth his death until he comes , and therefore the end remains , notwithstanding what you have said , unless you can prove christ is come the second time without sin unto salvation : do you suppose there is no need of this ordinance because the spirit can best supply the said end ? and is this idolatry , and diversion from the spirit ? is it idolatry to worship god according to his own appointments & institutions , and a diversion from the spirit to be obedient to those com●ands given forth by the spirit , and by our lord jesus christ ? and what a piece of impudence and arrogancy is here ? will you take upon you to instruct the almighty ? is not jesus christ the only wise god ? and did not he upon the consideration of the aforesaid ends , institute and give forth this gospel-ordinance , and darest thou say , the spirit can best supply those ends without making use of the meanes god in his word doth direct unto , and make us believe ( if you could ) that to obey christs ordinances is idolatry ? the usefulness and sufficiency of the spirit in fulfilling of its work and office , doth not disannul christs precepts , or make his blessed appointments of none effect , or needless things ; ought not we to conclude , that whatsoever means jehovah hath prescribed and enjoyned for the effecting and accomplishing of such and such ends by himself propounded , do best tend to the supplying the said ends respectively . h. g. again is very fierce and rash for their water-baptisme , or plunging people in water , where he saith , whosoever brings any other gospel let him be accursed . — hereby he hath cursed all the people of god and sincere-minded , both protestants and all others in the world , who oppose and come not under the baptists dipping or plunging people in water : lord forgive him , he is very uncharitable herein , for our parts we cannot believe their baptism to be either the baptism of christ , or gospel , or of necessity , and available to salvation . reply . thou hast further in this manifested thy imperfection and false anti-christian spirit : hast thou no more care nor conscience , that thou goest about thus to reproach and belie the innocent ? have i in page . or any where else , affirmed that baptism , or plunging men and women in water , is the gospel ? or can any such conclusion or consequence arise from what i have said , which thou dost affirm ; viz. as to curse all the people of god and sincere-minded protestants , and all others in the world , who oppose or come not under the baptist's dipping ? &c. or , have i said it is of necessity to salvation ? others have read that book as well as g. w. and they cannot find any thing in the least of that nature in it . and because this is a false charge and cursed slander , i shall repeat the occasion of 〈◊〉 mentioning these words of paul , whosoever brings any other gospel let him be accursed : from whence this man doth infer those unnatural consequences . thou maist see that in page . of the said little book , i having an occasion there to treat of christs commission , matt. . and of the baptism there given forth by the lord jesus , thou maist find these words , viz. now the baptisme here commanded must needs remain to be practised to the end of the world , because whatsoever was there given forth by christ , is given forth as he is king and mediatour of the new covenant , and as part of his last will and testament ; and his last will and testament stands in full force and vertue to the end of the world unalterable , and whosoever brings any other gospel , let him be accurst : is there any ground from hence for him to affirm that which he doth of me . all that are accursed , by the authoritie and natural consequence , or tendency of my mentioning those expressions of the apostle , are only those who bring another gospel besides that which was given forth by christ , as he is king and mediatour of the new covenant , or is contained in his last will ●●d testament ; and i doubt not but all sincere-minded protestants are of my persuasion touching this matter , though we may differ about the form and subjects of baptism ; and though we plead for bapt●sm as it was dispensed and administred in the primitive time , yet false it is and a slander to say , that we make it essential and of absolute necessity to salvation , though we do believe it to be essential to church-communion . h. g. denies the true saviour to be the light and power : i affirm ( saith he ) that jesus christ is a man consisting of flesh and bone , p. , . humane , p. . finite , weak , subject to passion as we are , p. . the inward power is not the christ distinct from the human nature , the true christ consisting of a body of flesh and bone , p. - . h. g. contrad . john declared plainly , that christ was before him , being from everlasting he was before abraham , the son of god by eternal generation , truly god , david 's lord , p. . the lord jesus the eternal word . p. . the emanuel , p. . christ is the son of the living god , p. . g.w. his animad . therefore it is un-scriptural and absurd to assert , that jesus christ consisteth of a humane body of flesh and bone , seing he is before all things , and by him all things consist , &c. reply . reader , i do entreat thee observe how he hath abused me in his collecting in such a confused manner of those several places , words , and sentences out of my little book , which he would fain make earnings of ; he regards not the occasion of my speaking upon these several accounts , nor yet the texts they allude to , taking here a bit and there a scrap in a ridiculous manner : 't is an easie thing to take his way and example to set the scriptures in contradiction one against another , as some prophane atheists have presumed to do . what is said pag. . concerning christ being weak , subject to passion and sufferings &c. is spoken in respect of what he was touching his humane nature , when he was upon the earth , before his resurrection and glorious ascension into heaven above : but to leave that , i hope now ( reader ) thou maist see what judgment and persuasion this man is of , and the blindness of his evil mind . doth he not evidently declare to the world , that it is a contradiction , and absurd to assert that jesus christ is god and man , subsisting in two real distinct natures , being davids root and davids off-spring because i said he is man , and that the divinity distinct and apart from the humanity is not the christ , and yet also said he is god everlasting , and the son of god by an eternal generation ? he sayes it is a contradiction and absurd . the lord deliver these poor nations from such horrible heresies , delusions , and vile impostures . h.g. the principles of the quakers concerning the light within , the impurity and vileness of which principles i may further make appear , p. . h. g. contrad . the word considered as creator , is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world , p. . g. w. his animad . it is no less than blasphemy to charge this principle ( to wit , the light of the eternal word , the creator ) with vileness and impurity . reply . doubtless the light in this man is almost quite gone out , for else he might see that what he here minds with unchristian reflections , is not in the least any contradiction . the quakers doctrine and principles concerning the light within , is impure and vile , and the same i do still affirm ; and yet assert , that the word considered as creator , is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world ; and is this any contradiction ? friend , do not mistake your self , i do not charge the light of the eternal word , or the light in every man , with vileness and impurity ; i acknowledge the light which is in all , and do esteem it , and have a regard to it in its place , and do say it witnesses for god , and serves for the end and purpose ( when obeyed ) for which it was given unto man : yet that which you quakers speak of it , is abominable , and to be detested by all good christians : it was never bestowed upon man to be made an idol of , and set up in the place of god himself : it is blasphemy to say it is the divine essence ; it is a vile and wicked thing to say it is the lord jesus christ , the lamb of god , the great prophet god promised to raise up ; it is a vile error to say it is the holy spirit , or blessed comforter ; for that , christ saith , the world could not receive : and abominable it is to say 't will cleanse from all sin , and eternally save those that obey it , which many of you affirm ; and herein your principle of the light appears vile and impure . g. h. god forbid that i should ever own their principle of the light in all , that doth so clearly tend to the razing out the grand fundamentals of the gospel . g. h. contrad . praises and halelujah to god for ever , who hath given us that witness in our selves , of which thou speakest , which witness ( his sister spake of ) was the light which reproves for sin , to own and believe in the light , that enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world. g. w. his animad . see what a sad pass these men are proven to , and what kind of prayers they offer to god , against his own light , or witness within ; and how contrary to the gospel-spirit and light they are . reply . g. w. should have perused the letter i wrote that book in answer to , before he returned any thing by way of answer to me : for he belyes both me and my sister in what he saith here ; for the witness she spoke of in her letter , is not that he affirms in his pamphlet , viz. the light which reproves for sin , which is in every one that cometh into the world ; though i confess she bids me believe in the light that reproves for sin , which lighteth every one that cometh into the world , as pag. . & . but contrariwise she mentioned upon this occasion , the very express words of the apostle john , joh. . . he that believeth , hath the witness in himself ; and that witness through grace i in my measure do experience ; not that i believe in that light ( which every man that cometh into the world is inlightned with ) for life and salvation , for that is an insufficient saviour , and such a belief will fail , that is not the object , author , and finisher of my faith ; but it is the lord jesus christ , who by one offering hath perfected for ever all those that are sanctified , heb. . . and thus you may see that all those contradictions , lyes , and absurdities that g. w. charges h. g. with , are returned upon his own head , by which you may perceive that all the stir this man makes , is but like smoke and darkness , which the beams of true light from the sun of righteousness doth vanquish and expel . reader , g. w is pleased to say pag. . that there are more absurdities and false accusations against them in that book , called light from the sun of righteousness , and doth also proceed to instance in one or two , viz. in saying they deny the man christ and the resurrection . i cannot but admire at the insolency of these men , who though they are found daily in the sight of all persons denying that man to be the christ who was born of the virgin , and was crucified on the cross , yet would fain have men to believe they are falsly accused : but that this is a true charge , i suppose these very lines may serve to inform thee ; for if it be absurd to say , christ doth consist of a humane body , of flesh and bone , or is man ; or to say the deity , divine nature , or god-head was not the christ considered distinct and apart from the humane nature ; must it not needs follow from hence , they deny the man christ jesus ? doth he not positively assert , that it is a contradiction to affirm the lord jesus christ is god and man ? doth he not deny his humane nature , and the glorious hypostatical union ? if this comes further to be controverted , we shall be able ( god assisting ) to make it appear yet more plainly . have not some of them said , that christ was never seen with an outward eye , nor heard with an outward ear ; and that they cannot call the bodily garment the christ , but that which dwelt in the body . see a book stiled , some principles of the elect people of god called quakers , page . and now , reader , i hope thou wilt find that what this man hath yet said in answer to my little book , hath been just nothing ; for that he cannot prove it meer contradiction , confusion , and darkness , as with the tongue of infamy he is pleased to call it . and i appeal to thee , do not the quakers appear to all men to be babylonish rather than h.g. and other baptists , which he doth reproachfully call so ? g. w. saith , he hath writ a full answer unto the said book . thou mayest perceive by this what a bundle of confusion the rest will prove , for i never saw yet any distinct solid answer given by him to any book which hath come out against them . the lord deliver christ's poor lambs from being preyed upon and devoured by ravening wolves , matt. . . and grant them repentance , who have not sinned the unpardonable sin. farewel . postscript . and since g. w. would make us believe , that the quakers own the man christ , and the resurrection of the body : i shall only ask him a few questions , desiring a direct , distinct , and plain answer to them , and conclude . first , was he the christ , and true saviviour , that was born of the virgin ; yea , or nay ? secondly , if you say he was , i query , whether that same christ , be in the heart of every man and woman ? thirdly , whether he that you own to be the christ and true saviour , was put to death , or crucified on the cross ? fourthly , whether you believe there is any other christ , than what is in the heart of man , yea , or nay ? fifthly , if that body that was nailed to the cross , was but as a garment which the true christ did wear , or as a house in which he did dwell , why may not any other man , in whose flesh christ is manifested and doth dwell , be called the christ , as well as jesus of nazareth ? sixthly , if you own the man-christ , why do you affirm it is a contradiction to say , he is god of the substance of the father , and yet truly man , made like unto us in all things , sin only excepted ? for either he must be meer man , or meer god , else it cannot be any contradiction ; and if you say he is meer man , then you seem to side with those jews that accused our saviour for blasphemy , in that being a man , he made himself god , john . . and if you say he is meer god , doth it not then clearly follow , you deny the man-christ ? seventhly , i query , whether you own any other resurrection , than what ( you say ) you experience within ? eighthly , whether you believe that that body of flesh and bone which is laid in then grave ( respecting the matter or substance of it ) shall by the mighty power of god b●… raised from the dead at the last day ? ninthy , whether that man ( whosoever he be ) doth not deny the resurrection of the dead , who doth deny the same it which is sown , ( and shall rise ) mentioned , cor. . . to intend the same body ( respecting the matter or substance of it ) which was buried and laid in the grave ? answer plainly , without equivocation . finis . the christian quaker: or, george keith's eyes opened good news from pensilvania. containing a testimony against that false and absurd opinion which some hold, viz. that all true believers and saints, immediately after the bodily death attain to all the resurrection they expect, and enter into the fullest enjoyment of happiness. and also, that the wicked, immediately after death, are raised up to receive all the punishment they are to expect. together with a scriptural account of the resurrection of the dead, day of judgment, and christ's last coming and appearance without us. also, where, and what those heavens are into which the man christ is gone, and entred into. by george keith. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the christian quaker: or, george keith's eyes opened good news from pensilvania. containing a testimony against that false and absurd opinion which some hold, viz. that all true believers and saints, immediately after the bodily death attain to all the resurrection they expect, and enter into the fullest enjoyment of happiness. and also, that the wicked, immediately after death, are raised up to receive all the punishment they are to expect. together with a scriptural account of the resurrection of the dead, day of judgment, and christ's last coming and appearance without us. also, where, and what those heavens are into which the man christ is gone, and entred into. by george keith. keith, george, ?- . p. printed in pensilvania, and reprinted in london for benjamin keach, and are to be sold by him at his house near horse-lie-down; and john harris at the harrow in the poultrey, [london] : . at foot of title page: price d. copy from the british library cropped at head with loss of pagination and text. reproduction of the originals in the bodleian library oxford and the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- pennsylvania -- controversial literature -- early works to . death -- religious aspects -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christian quaker : or , george keith's eyes opened . good news from pensilvania . containing a testimony against that false and absurd opinion which some hold , viz. that all true believers and saints , immediately after the bodily death attain to all the resurrection they expect , and enter into the fullest enjoyment of happiness . and also , that the wicked , immediately after death , are raised up to receive all the punishment they are to expect . together with a scriptural account of the resurrection of the dead , day of judgment , and christ's last coming and appearance without us . also , where , and what those heavens are into which the man christ is gone , and entred into . by george keith . printed in pensilvania , and reprinted in london for benjamin keach , and are to be sold by him at his house near horse-lie-down ; and john harris at the harrow in the poultrey , . price d. reader , this short tract thou art here presented with , was first printed in pensilvania , verbatim , except the title ; the publisher , who lately came from thence , having one book of the first impression by him under mr. george keith's own hand , just subscribed as in this second impression , without any alteration or addition , which has been carefully examined . advertisement . reader , thou mayst suddenly expect another book to be reprinted of george keith's about separation , which may tend farther to open the eyes of the people called quakers , and others . the christian quaker : or , george keith's eyes opened , &c. whereas many hurtful and dangerous errors have taken place among too many called christians , which are some of the tares and evil seeds that satan hath sown while men have slept in the dark night of apostacy ; and that now some do think they are awakened and come to the day , and in the light of god's day see into the true christian doctrine , and pretend to great openings , and discoveries , and revelations ; and yet some even of such hold some false and unchristian opinions ; of which there are not a few concerning the resurrection of the dead , altho the testimony of the holy scriptures is very full and clear against these dangerous and hurtful opinions and principles , imbraced by some as if they were true christian doctrines . some alledging , that there is no resurrection of the body at all ; or , that there is nothing of the body that dieth , that riseth again . others alledging , that the resurrection is past already ; and all the resurrection they expect , they have already attained , being ( as they pretend ) risen with christ in all respects . others say , their vile or low body is already changed , and made conform to his glorious body . others say , they receive all the resurrection they do expect immediately after death . all which are dangerous and unchristian principles , and are directly contrary to the holy scriptures : for there were in paul's time who said , the resurrection was past already , and did overthrow the faith of some , such as hymeneus and philetus , whose words did eat as a cankir , as he declared , tim. . , . and such who say , their vile body is changed , and made conform to the glorious body of christ , contradict the scripture , and speak reproachfully , but ignorantly , against the lord jesus christ : for paul useth these words by way of prophecy , as a thing not then fulfilled , but a thing to be fulfilled at the resurrection of the dead ; phil. . . who shall change our vile ( or low ) body , that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body , &c. he doth not say , that the body was already changed , and made like to the body of christ , but by way of prophecy related it as a thing to come : for the washing and cleansing of the body from sin , is not that change , but it is necessary to prepare unto it ; for even after the bodies of the saints are washed and cleansed from sin , they remain low , and weak , and mortal , and corruptible , subject to hunger , cold , heat , diseases and death , and therefore are not made like to his glorious body until the resurrection of the dead . and such who say , nothing of the body that dieth riseth again , do plainly contradict the testimony of the holy spirit recorded in scripture , and especially cor. . , . for according to the example that the wisdom of god giveth of the grain of corn , whereby to open the mystery of the resurrection , as the true body of the seed in the grain riseth ; so that out of the old body a new body doth arise , but the husk or drossy part rises not ; even so is the resurrection of the dead : therefore the new resurrection-body is raised out of the old body , as the new grain of corn rises out of the old : but if the body of the grain of corn did wholly perish or come to dust , nothing could arise ; which is a plain example given us by the wisdom of god : and that which rises is the mortal that puts on immortality , and the corruptible that puts on incorruption , and is not raised flesh and blood , such as men now have , but yet a true body ; for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god , neither doth corruption inherit incorruption : but the true body of man and woman that shall arise at the resurrection of the dead , lieth hid within this visible gross appearance of flesh and flood , even as the true body of the seed in the grain of corn lieth within the husk , or as the precious gold lies within the coarse mineral or mine until the pure and precious metal be separated from the dross . and because this separation is not immediately effected , but requires a time after death , and that even when the separation is made , the body remains , and is lodged by the divine providence that gives to every thing its proper place , as in a certain invisible grave or sepulchre , that was mysteriously figured by the burial-place called machpelah , ( that signifies a double or twofold sepulchre ) gen. . which abraham purchased from ephron the hittite ( which word ephron signifies the dust-eater ) for four hundred pieces of silver : the which as it is literally true , so is an allegory , and points at the resurrection of the body out of the mystical and invisible machpelah or sepulchre in hebron ( which signifies bordering ) in the land of israel , figuratively and mystically understood : and by four hundred pieces of silver , as by so many vertues signified by silver , this most excellent burial place is purchased from ethron : but he who hath not these vertues , cannot have the privilege to be buried in this most excellent burial-place ; and therefore an untimely birth is better than he , as the holy scripture declares , eccles . . . for it is no such misery nor unhappiness not to have an outward and visible sepulchre , which many of the dear children of god have not had ; but surely they have this other more excellent burial in the mystical hebron , in the mystical land of israel , where all the dead bodies of the saints shall be raised up , and stand with the lamb upon mount zion , to wit , not the literal zion , but the mystical . now that the bodies of the saints are not raised up immediately after death , or after the spirit goeth out of the body , ( altho the souls and spirits of the righteous , and of all the faithful , both men and women , who die in the faith of the lord jesus christ , do immediately go unto god and christ in heaven , and enter into a very great and large enjoyment of the heavenly blessedness , after the bodily decease ) is clear from many express testimonies of the holy scripture . for the deceased saints , tho their souls and spirits are alive with the lord in heaven , and do not sleep , but are awake , and praise god continually ; yet they are said to be asleep in respect of their bodies , which are rather fallen asleep than dead , and are said to sleep in christ , to wit , under his divine care and protection , until he awaken them . for which i shall cite these following scriptures . kings . . so david slept with his fathers , and was buried in the city of david . deut. . . behold , thou shalt sleep with thy fathers , said the lord unto moses . cor. . . now is christ risen from the dead , and become the first fruits of them that sleep , viz. because he rose from the dead the third day . thess . . . for if we believe that jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in jesus , will god bring with him : for this we say unto you by the word of the lord , that we which are alive , and remain unto the coming of the lord , shall not prevent them which are asleep ; for the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the arch-angel , and with the trump of god ; and the dead in christ shall rise first . all which places plainly show , that tho the saints , as with respect to their souls , are raised up , and ascended , and are with god and christ in heaven , yet as to their bodies they are asleep , and have not attained to the resurrection of the body : for if they had attained to the bodily resurrection , paul would not have writ of them by way of prophecy , in the future , or time to come , saying , the dead in christ shall rise first , to wit , at the voice of the arch-angel , and trump of god. now what this trump or trumpet is , both paul and john declareth , and the time about which it is to sound , cor. . . in a moment , in the twinkling of an eye , at the last trump ; and the dead shall be raised incorruptible , and we shall be changed . rev. . . . and the seventh angel sounded , ( which seventh is the last trumpet ) &c. and ver . . thy wrath is come , and the time of the dead , that they should be judged , and that thou shouldst give reward unto thy servants the prophets , and , thy saints , and them that fear thy name , both small and great . and because paul , cor. . lays down the resurrection of christ's body from the dead , as the ground why true believers , which are his members , shall attain to the resurrection of their body , it manifestly appears that they are to attain unto it at the end of the world , or at the last trumpet , as above mentioned , ( yet it may well be allowed , that some did attain to the resurrection of the body immediately after christ's resurrection , according to mat. . , . and the graves were opened , and many bodies of saints which slept , arose , and came out of the graves after his resurrection , and went into the holy city , and appeared unto many : ) and therefore the deceased saints have not generally attained the resurrection of the dead , as touching the resurrection of the body , but do wait for it until the sound of the last trumpet . nor did any of the saints attain the resurrection of the body before christ's body rose from the dead , because he is expresly called , the first-begotten from the dead , and the first fruits that go before the harvest : and therefore none did attain the bodily resurrection before him , neither enoch nor elias ; for though they were taken up , yet it is not said they had attained the resurrection of the body , it only implieth some particular privilege , that they did not taste of death as other men : and the like may be said of moses , whose body was more pure and excellent than that of other men ; and therefore michael the arch-angel did contend with the devil about the body of moses , and would not let him touch it , as being more excellent ; and therefore it is said , god buried him , and no man knoweth of his burial-place to this day . moreover , it is very plain from scripture , that the deceased saints , who lived from the beginning of the world , altho their souls and spirits did ascend unto god and christ in heaven , yet waited for the resurrection of the body , and that more abundant glory that should follow thereupon ; for it is said , heb. . . these all died in faith , not having received the promises , but having seen them afar off , and were perswaded of them , and embraced them , &c. and ver . , . all these having obtained a good report through faith , received not the promise , god having provided some better things for us , that they without us should not be made perfect . now what this promise is , is clear from ver. . and other : were tortured , not accepting deliverance , that they might obtain a better resurrection ; which is the resurrection of the just , that is better than the resurrection of the unjust . now if some say , the promise that they waited for , was christ's coming in the flesh . i answer ; as it was that in part , so it was not only that , but all that felicity and happiness that should come unto them by the coming of christ in the flesh , and his death and resurrection , to wit , the perfect victory over death , which is not fully obtained until the mortal put on immortality , and the corruptible put on incorruption , as it is written , so when this corruptible shall put on incorruption , and this mortal shall have put on immortality , then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written , death is swallowed up in victory : o death ! where is thy sting ? o grave ! where is thy victory ? &c. and that very first promise that god gave to mankind after the fall , did relate to this victory over death , that the seed of the woman ( which is christ jesus ) should bruise the head of the serpent : for tho the head of the serpent was inwardly bruised , as in respect of the inward redemption , salvation and deliverance of the souls of all the faithful in all ages of the world , both before and after christ came in the flesh ; yet until they attain unto the resurrection of the body , the head of the serpent is not in all respects bruised , because the last enemy that is to be destroyed is death , who is not fully destroyed until the bodies of the saints be raised from death : for by adam's fall , death both of soul and body came upon him and his posterity , ( as is at large demonstrated in another treatise of g. k's ) and by christ's death and resurrection , to all who sincerely believe in him and obey him , that twofold death is removed , the death of the soul , thrô faith in him , and that inward quickning , and being raised with him , who is the resurrection and the life , now in the mortal state , but the death of the body at the resurrection of the dead , [ see this twofold resurrection , the one of the soul , the other of the body , expresly mentioned , john . , . ] and who say , that the faithful immediately after death , receive the resurrection of the body , and all that fulness of glory and happiness that they are to expect for ever : as it doth tend to overthrow a principal article of the christian faith , touching the resurrection of the dead , so it tendeth to overthrow that other great and principal article of the christian faith , touching the great day of judgment that is to be in the end of the world , called in scripture , [ the last day ] , and [ the great day ] and [ that day ] by way of distinction from other days , and which is frequently mentioned in scripture ; for even the fallen angels have not as yet received their final sentence , and full and absolute punishment , but are reserved in chains of darkness unto the judgment of the great day , jude . compared with . pet. . . and mat. . . many will say re me in that day , lord , lord , have not we prophesied in thy name ? &c. and thess . . , , , . when the lord jesus shall be revealed from heaven , with his mighty angels , in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god , and obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ : who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power : when he shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day : note well these words , [ in that day ] . again , acts . . because he hath appointed a day in the which he will judg the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained , having offered faith ( as the greek and margent of the english bibles hath it ) unto all men , in that he hath raised him from the dead . and ver . . and when they heard of the resurrection of the dead , some mocked , and others said , we will hear thee again of this matter . and these were some philosophers of the epicureans and the stoicks , to which this doctrine of the resurrection of the body seemed strange . — and so great an article and doctrine of the christian faith was this of the resurrection , that paul calleth it , the hope of the promise made of god unto the fathers ; as plainly appeareth , comparing acts . v. . with v. . why should it be thought a thing incredible with you that god should raise the dead ? and ver . , . witnessing both to small and great , saying none other things than those which the prophets and moses did say should come , that christ should suffer , and be the first that should rise from the dead , &c. note these words , where it plainly appeareth , that none of the saints deceased before christ's resurrection , were raised from the dead , although their souls and spirits did go unto god. for the resurrection of the dead , as a general thing , is joined with the great day of judgment , when the son of man shall come in the glory of his father , accompanied with his holy angels , and shall fit upon the throne of his glory ; and before him shall be gathered all nations , and he shall separate them one from another , as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats ; and first appointeth the reward of the kingdom ( viz. in the full possession of it ) unto the sheep , which is the first resurrection ; and then he passeth the sentence of condemnation to the everlasting fire , or fire of ages , unto the goats on the left hand , that is the resurrection of the vnjust . but if all men , both good and bad , receive their final sentence immediately after death , there is no occasion for a day of judgment in the end of the world , for that is prevented by what cometh to pass both to good and bad immediately after death , according to this absurd opinion . but again , as concerning that great day of judgment to come , wherein both the righteous and the wicked shall receive according to the works done in the body , christ doth plainly elsewhere declare , as mat. . . but of that day and hour knoweth no man , no not the angels in heaven , but my father only . and mark . . but of that day and hour knoweth no man , no not the angels in heaven , neither the son , but the father : which is to be understood of christ , the son , as man , to whom then it was not known . the which day and hour cannot be the time immediately after mens decease ; for though after death there is a judgment that followeth every one , according to heb. . . yet that is not the great and last judgment , nor universal , but particular . and of this last day , christ said . john . . and this is the will of him that sent me , that every one which seeth the son , and believeth on him , may have everlasting life ; and i will raise him up at the last day . note , he doth not say , i will raise him up in the body immediately after death ; but in this last day , to wit , in the end of the world. and with a respect to this martha made a good confession of her faith , touching the resurrection of the dead , saying , i know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day . the which christ doth not in the least contradict , but opened a further mystery unto her , to wit , that he was the resurrection and the life : he that believeth in me , though he were dead , yet shall he live ; and whosoever liveth and believeth in me , shall never die . and because he was the resurrection , viz. the author of it , therefore he could and would raise lazarus her brother from the dead at that time ; which yet was not the resurrection in the last day , for he was but raised at that time a mortal man , to die again . and whereas he said , he who believeth in me shall never die , containeth a great and most comfortable mystery , to wit , that neither the souls nor the bodies of true believers strictly die ; their souls sleep not , but are awake ; and their bodies , tho they sleep , die not ; their sleep is not the sleep of death , strictly taken . and therefore christ proved against the sadduces the resurrection of the dead , from the words of god to moses , i am the god of abraham , isaac and jacob ; and god is not the god of the dead , but the god of the living ; and therefore nothing of abraham was strictly dead or perished , neither his soul , nor yet his true body ; for even his body did but sleep , as when the body of a man sleepeth that is not dead ; for the bodies only of such die , ( in the worst sense of the word death ) who die in final unbelief and impenitency ; on whom death feeds , and whose iniquities are upon their bones , and whose bodies are called , the carkasses of them that have transgressed against the lord , whose worm dieth not , and their fire goeth not out , &c. see for this psal . . . ezek. . , isa . . . but as concerning the dead bodies of the saints and true believers in christ jesus , it is prophesied . thy dead , my dead body shall arise , ( so the hebrew hath it ) for the bodies of the deceased saints are the body and temple of christ , and members of him , and therefore cannot perish : awake and sing , ye that dwell in the dust , for thy dew is as the dew of herbs , and the earth shall cast out the dead , ( to wit , the earth not vulgarly understood , isa . . . ) and that job had a firm and stedfast belief of the resurrection of his body after death , is clear from his words , viz. and though after my skin , worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall i see god , &c. job . . which is not to be understood of the gross corruptible body of flesh , but of the resurrection body , that may be called flesh in a more excellent sense than that vulgarly understood ; as paul said , all flesh is not the same flesh . so the flesh that is mortal , gross and corruptible , is not that flesh that shall be raised up immortal and incorruptible ; for the word [ flesh ] is taken sometimes in a very high sense , where it is said , vnless ye eat my flesh , &c. and all flesh shall see the salvation of god ; and i will give them hearts of flesh , &c. and lastly , that there is yet a resurrection of the dead to come , of all such generally who have died in the faith , is clear from rev. . , , . and they lived and reigned with christ a thousand years ; but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished : that is the first resurrection . blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection . where note well , that the resurrection of the saints in the thousand years , is called the first resurrection , &c. which every true believer , who is inwardly risen with christ , as to his soul and inward man , is interested in , and hath a right unto , but is not possessed of until the resurrection of the dead : and therefore if any will call the inward rising of the soul from the death of sin , the first resurrection , yet it is not that first resurrection , mentioned rev. . , . moreover , concerning the nature and manner of the resurrection of the bodies of the saints , how that this body is not raised a mortal corruptible body of flesh and blood , but immortal and incorruptible . paul doth plainly declare ; and it is altogether safe in this and all other matters of faith , to hold to scripture words , cor. . from v. , to . and here note , . that paul doth not call him a fool that did believe either the truth of the resurrection of the body , or the true manner of it , but called him a fool , that not believing the truth of it , nor the true manner of it , and by arguing against it , did enquire , how are the dead raised up ? and for the instruction of this fool , paul sendeth him to learn the manner of it from the sowing and rising of the grain of corn ; and he reproveth such at corinth sharply , who did not belive the resurrection of the body , as not having the knowledg of god , cor. . . awake , said he , to righteousness . i speak this to your shame . so that according to paul's doctrine , such who have not the true faith of the resurrection of the body , greatly fall short of the knowledg of god. note , . that the resurrection of the dead , and eternal judgment , belonging to the first principles of the doctrine of christ , according to heb. . . as well as repentance and faith , are necessary to be known and believed , in order to the perfecting , if not the beginning , the work of our sanctification and salvation . note , . that as the bodies of the saints , that shall be raised up at the resurrection of the dead , shall not be raised mortal and corruptible , but immortal and incorruptible , so they shall not need any meats or drinks , or other things that this mortal and corruptible world doth afford , nor the light and influence of the sun , moon and stars : and in the resurrection , they shall neither marry , nor give in marriage , but be as the angels of god , mat. . . and the place of their abode or habitation shall be that new heaven and earth mentioned by isaiah , chap. . . and chap. . . and pet. . . which is not , as some weakly imagine , this visible heaven and earth that waxeth old , but those which are far more excellent , and shall not wax old , rev. . . but yet it is clear from scripture , that at the coming and appearance of christ without us , in his glorified body , which all good and sound christians joyfully wait for , even that he shall come in the clouds of heaven , accompanied with his holy and glorious angels , that all the raised saints shall appear with him in their glorified bodies , ( signified by the coming down of the new jerusalem from heaven , rev. . , . ) being made like unto his glorious body , according to jude . and enoch also , the seventh from adam , prophesied of these , saying , behold , the lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints , to execute judgment upon all , &c. and whereas some say , the greek beareth it in ten thousands , i say , he both cometh in them , and also with them ; for the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth frequently signify ( in the new testament ) with or among , as well as in ; as is clear from matth. . . luke . . rom. . . cor. . . where the greek particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth among , and cannot be good sense otherwise translated . note , . that the belief of christ's being in heaven now in his glorified nature of man , both of soul and body , hath such a necessary connexion with the belief of his coming and appearance without us , to judg the quick and the dead , that these two stand or fall together ; and every one that believeth the first , cannot but believe the latter ; for it were strange to think , that christ hath , and for ever shall have the glorified nature of man in heaven , and that the saints should not see him at the day of judgment . but as for such as do not believe that christ hath any being in the glorified nature of man now in heaven without them , they cannot believe that ever he will appear unto them , or any other ; and it is nothing but giving way to carnal dark reasonings , and wisdom of the flesh , called by paul , vain philosophy , and worldly rudiments , that hinder men to believe the truth so plainly declared in the holy scripture . and , . from the like dark imaginations doth proceed , that they believe no heaven nor hell but within them , while they enquire where is that heaven into which the man christ is gone ? and hath any of us seen him , or spoke with him ? to which i can easily answer ; that heaven is both near to us , and far from us , and is of a far more large extent than that it can be contained within us , though we have a heavenly seed , plant and birth in us , that is daily nourished with heavenly food , and is watered daily with the heavenly dews and rains ; and this heaven , tho not visible to our weak mortal eyes of flesh , yet is visible to the eyes and sight of our faith , and is that new heaven that never waxeth old , and the paradise of god , cor. . . compared with rev. . . and gen. . , . which is the throne of god , and the house of god , that hath many mansions ; concerning which christ said , john . , . in my father's house are many mansions . if it were not so , i would have told you ; i go to prepare a place for you . and if i go and prepare a place for you , i will come again , and receive you unto my self , that where i am , there ye may be also . and tho we have not seen the man christ with our carnal or bodily eyes , yet with these , concerning whom peter writeth , pet. . . whom having not seen , ye love ; in whom , though now ye see him not , yet believing , ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory . and that the saints shall see the man christ , and be with him for ever where he is , to behold his glory , shall be a great part of their eternal felicity , joh. . . and because of which they shall the more abundantly see and enjoy him inwardly , and god in him and through him . and jesus said unto thomas , after his resurrection , john . . thomas , because thou hast seen me , thou believest ; blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed . and how can all nations stand before the son of man , mat. . if he shall not appear without us at the day of judgment ? g. k. finis . an advertisement of an intended meeting to be held by george keith and his friends, at their usual meeting-place, in turners-hall, in philpot-lane, the th. day of this instant and present month called april, . to begin about the th. hour. to which meeting william penn, thomas ellwood, george whitehead, john penington, and these of the second days weekly meeting at lombard-street, are justly desired to be present, to hear themselves recharged and proved guilty of these vile and gross errors and heresies, wherewith they have been formerly charged by george keith, and proved guilty off [sic], at a meeting held at turners-hall, on the th, of the month called june, . ... keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k c estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an advertisement of an intended meeting to be held by george keith and his friends, at their usual meeting-place, in turners-hall, in philpot-lane, the th. day of this instant and present month called april, . to begin about the th. hour. to which meeting william penn, thomas ellwood, george whitehead, john penington, and these of the second days weekly meeting at lombard-street, are justly desired to be present, to hear themselves recharged and proved guilty of these vile and gross errors and heresies, wherewith they have been formerly charged by george keith, and proved guilty off [sic], at a meeting held at turners-hall, on the th, of the month called june, . ... keith, george, ?- . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] imprint from wing. signed at end: george keith. title from heading and first lines of text. reproduction of the original in the cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng penn, william, - -- early works to . ellwood, thomas, - -- early works to . whitehead, george, ?- -- early works to . penington, john, - -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an advertisement of an intended meeting , to be held by george keith and his friends , at their usual meeting-place , in turners-hall , in philpot-lane , the th . day of this instant and present month called april , . to begin about the th . hour . to which meeting william penn , thomas ellwood , george whitehead , john penington , and these of the second day 's weekly meeting at lombard-street , are justly desired to be present , to hear themselves recharged and proved guilty of these vile and gross errors and heresies , wherewith they have been formerly charged by george keith , and proved guilty off , at a meeting held at turners-hall , on the th . of the month called june , . notwithstanding of the pretended answers and defences , given by thomas ellwood in his pretended answer to the exact narrative of the proceedings at turners-hall , at the abovesaid meeting ; and notwithstanding the pretended late answer and defence of george whitehead , in his late printed book , call'd , an antidote , &c. at which meeting , to be held at the time and place above-mention'd , by divine permission and assistance , and by permission of the civil authority , he is further to detect the vile and gross errors of the abovemention'd persons ; with respect to four great fundamentals of the christian religion , to which these errors and heresies are directly repugnant ; the which errors , as they were formerly in the printed advertisement and narrative expresly mention'd , are here again expresly rehearsed , viz. . that faith in christ , as he outwardly suffered at jerusalem , is not necessary to our salvation . . that justification and sanctification is not by the blood of christ outwardly shed . . that there is no resurrection of the body that dyeth . . that christ is not to come without us in his glorify'd body , even the same that formerly suffered death for our sins , to judge the quick and the dead . at which meeting also , he purposeth to shew , that the answers and defences given by thomas ellwood , and george whitehead , in their late prints , in the vindication of themselves and some of their brethren are ( as to the principal things charged against them ) weak , impertinent , false and palpably sophistical ; and that notwithstanding their seeming present contradiction to some of these gross errors , and disowning them ; yet until they disown , retract , and acknowledge their former errors , as they stand upon record in their printed books , they are still justly chargeable with them . but this they refuse to do , for one hath in print by approbation of their d. days meeting ) put his and their infallibility and immutability in a class , with the immutability of god and truth , saying , god is the same , truth is the same , his people is the same ; but george keith is not the same . and let all impartial men judge , with what conscience these men can say , they are the same as ever formerly they were ( since their profession of being quakers , ) as god and truth are the same ( with whom is no variableness nor shadow of change ) as to all their former principles , doctrines , words , and sayings , and yet so palpably to contradict their former assertions , that stand upon record in their printed books , against them . is not this thick aegyptian darkness that may be felt ? notwithstanding their false pretences to the light within , which they still hold to be sufficient to salvation without any thing else ; so exclude the man christ jesus of nazareth , and all that he did and suffered for us on earth , and his mediation and intercession for us now in heaven , as being joyntly concerned , as a necessary concurring cause , together with the divine light and spirit in the work of our salvation : and in their so doing , notwithstanding their fained pretences to christianity , yet do what in them lyeth to throw down the christian faith and religion , and set up deisme and gentilisme in its place ; which all sincere christians ought to be awakened to consider and contend against ; and more especially such as occupy the room and place of christian teachers and pastors , to oppose ( not with carnal , but spiritual weapons ) this spreading gangrene and contagion , that hath infected , and doth at present infect many thousands in these three nations , and many abroad in other places . to which said meeting , to be held on the th . of this instant , at the said place , any moderate and friendly people of other professions ( as well as these call'd quakers ) have freedom to be present , so far as there is room in the place to receive them , hoping they all will so peaceably and civilly demean themselves , as to give no offence either to civil authority , or to any other persons , by any undue or unsutable behaviour of words or actions . george keith . the th . of the d , mo. call'd april , . naked truth needs no shift: or, an answer to a libellous sheet, entituled, the quakers last shift found out penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) naked truth needs no shift: or, an answer to a libellous sheet, entituled, the quakers last shift found out penn, william, - . sheet ([ ] p.) by andrew sowle, [london : ] dated and signed at end: the th of the th month, . by william penn. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers last shift found out -- early works to . society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion naked truth needs no shift : or , an answer to a libellous sheet , entituled , the quakers last shift found out . it is with no small regret , sober reader , that i am thus necessitated to vindicate my own and my friends innocency , against these unfair assaults : i prefer peace before war ; and heartily desire loving neighbourhood , rather then daily contest ; but this is our satisfaction , we did not begin with them , but were begun with by them : and such great and general accusations call for the like defences ; since where charges go unanswered , guilt is most usually reflected , especially where we are concerned ; there being a sort of men devoted to misconstrue whatever we say or do , with whom it is become criminal to defend our selves ; and do deserve to be chid for saying , they wrong us : such continued unchristian proceedings against us will , i hope , give all impartial people to hold me excused for publishing this second vindication , which i intreat them in the love of god to consider , that they may the better find out where the shift lieth , whether in us , or this nameless author and his abettors . the intent of my paper was , to meet with the vox populi , or common fame , that as we might be defended , so the people disabused , by declaring , that notwithstanding those defamatory reports city and country had credited against us , we had not received their information of the meeting , much less designedly avoided it ; that it was unfair to concern us in a meeting without our consent ; and that we made them a solemn offer of a publick meeting , &c. now let us see how well he hath made good his title-page , in which he calls his paper an answer to mine . he tells us , that we made an appeal to the baptists against t. hicks , and that upon this appeal the teachers and elders among them desired t. h. that he would in a publick meeting bring forth his evidences and witnesses : that mr. kissin and mr. knowls wrot letters the th of aug. to w. p. and g. w. informing them of time and place . but what is all this , to prove that we receiv'd any certain account from them of the meeting ; that we purposely avoided the meeting ; and that we were so far unconcern'd in it , as that our consent to meet was unnecessary ? the ground of my paper . he sayes that g. w. had notice at the vizes , having seen a letter of t. hicks , sent to one in that town : but suppose it to be true ; what is that to me , the person most of all concern'd in the matter ? or , how doth this reach p. ford's letter , writ to inform them of my absence , and to desire the meeting might be suspended , to prevent vain boasting ? was it suspended ? no. and hath not vain boasting followed ? yes . ● a surreptitious meeting ! a vain triumph ! doth not this proceeding rather give to suspect a design to meet in our absence , that made it of no moment to the meeting , after they heard of it , though before they wrot for , desired and expected our presence . but saith he , w. p. was at home the night before : grant it ; must i therefore hear or know of any such meeting , or my concernment in it ? i received no account , i say again , of either the meeting , or my relation to it , directly or indirectly , till about ten the night after it was over . and for g. w's knowledge of the meeting , it is exprest with injustice both to him and my self ; for he had not that account which belonged to him to have ; therefore not his account . what was a rumor to him ; or t. hicks's letter to another man , receiving no account himself , much less any account of his concern in the meeting till the th of the last month , which was the day after the meeting . besides , must we take it for granted that g. w. was just then at leisure to take post for the meeting ; under both it had been well nigh impossible for him to reach it ; for this author tells us , that t. h. writ not till the tuesday before the fryday ( so call'd ) on which the meeting was appointed ; which was to give him little above a day to ride about four score miles : moreover , he was then pre-engaged for bristol ; and so ignorant of his concernment in the meeting , as he after that writ to his wife to know if our friends were concern'd in it . this his shift is too thread-bare to palliate that unworthy surprise but , others had 〈◊〉 , ●aith he what then ? say i. were not we the persons chiefly concern'd ? could any body else have answer'd for t. hicks . besides himself ? who then could fill up our room , e●pecially in matters of fact ? if t. h. was thought fit to be there to explain and vindicate his dialogues , then should we in defence of our answers : but , if our absence might so easily be dispensed with , why should t. h's presence have been so requisite ? for t. h and his books , against our books only , were unreasonable odds. the plea should have layn between books and books , the controversie being written : and if it was needful that as well he as his dialogues should be there , then that as well we as our answers ; though i cannot see with what liberty we could have defended our selves , since such as offered to say any thing on our behalf , were interrupted ; which gives us cause enough to believe , that this person was beside the matter , when he tells us , that the baptists were glad to see any of us there . but he says , that i prevaricate , in saying , the baptists concern'd us in that meeting , when we concern'd the baptists in that meeting : a shift to be sure , though not his last . i would fain know , if we were not concern'd in that meeting , because we concern'd the baptists in that meeting ; as i take it , we were reciprocally concerned in that meeting , and therefore equally interested in the appointment of time and place ; for was there not the same reason that we should be there , viva voce to make good the charge in our book , as that t. h. should be there , viva voce to endeavour to clear his book from our charge ? never can they defend themselves from that injustice . it is not the part of a just judge , to hear and determine for one party in the absence of another . besides , for what end did they pretend to give us notice , if not that we should be there ? it must not be forgot , that while in their letter to me they d●sire and expect it , in the letter to j. osgood they render it needless ; nay , it was asserted by one eminent among them in that meeting , as i am credibly informed , that neither g. w. nor w. p. were concerned to be present : if so , why was our undesigned absence reputed and reported to be the consequence of our fears ? but the man thinks he hath a stronger argument then all this , in my book ( intituled , the spirit of truth vindicated , pag. . that to which an appeal is made must be capable of giving an infallible judgment , and so a true judge , or else the appeal is foolish . he is so wise as to leave the application to his reader , for which way he could make it bear to his purpose , i know not : but let it suffice , first , that i made not the appeal by him recited , as the postscript of my book proveth : next , nor can any sober man think , we intended by our appeal to the baptists our abiding by their judgment , be it right or wrong ; they very words of it show the appeal to the baptists , was not to try whether t. h. was guilty ; but for judgment against him , having proved him guilty ; for that were to admit of their judgment , to conclude us against our selves ; they themselves will not think us so kind to them : take the appeal as this person recites it ; now if you the teachers and elders among the baptized people do not publickly clear your selves of t. hicks , and these his unjust proceedings against us ; we may take it for granted , that you own his vvork , and may justly deal with him as the baptists great champion , peculiar agent or representative , &c. now i would fain know which way this binds us from all further meeting , upon the same score ? nothing can be well clearer , then that this appeal aim'd no further , then to know whether the baptists did and would own or reject t. h' s proceedings , that we might the better understand whom to address our selves to next time . there is great difference in the nature of appeals : and the reason of my writing , as he citeth me , was , to prove the light capable of giving an infallible judgment , from my adversary's acknowledging it to be the gift of god , and appealing to it , as a right discerner , for judgment about what is right , and what is wrong , which this person , t. h. like , left out : howbeit , thus far what he cites , reacheth our present case ; for doubtless , they had power to give judgment against t. h. if they had been but as willing to use it , having such clear evidences in our books before them . nevertheless , this doth not prove , that we knew of the meeting , that we were unconcerned in it , or that we designedly shunned it : the foundation of our paper , no wayes shaken by this libeller's sheet . the meeting was pretended for a church-examination ; but almost every where , in and about london , noised by the baptists themselves to have been for a disputation , and our absence accordingly interpreted : a manifest injury to our books , persons and profession . for my offer to j. gladman , he meanly shifts it , and seeks to creep out at the word formal ; so that we are to read it thus , vvilliam penn did offer , but not formally challenge , to meet t. hicks with the bible in one hand , & with his dialogue in the other . let it be so ; i hope it is enough to satisfie the world , that an offer was made and rejected : nor is my printed one more formal ; for it was on purpose made to remove all obstruction to a meeting , upon terms formally proposed ; for which i shall produce a witness in convenient time and place . in the mean while it is to be considered , that the person mistakes , when he makes t. h. to have offered w. p. any such meeting , whatever he might do to g. vv. as the very page he refers to in t. h's third dialogue proves : further , that he never offered me any meeting , but in private , and that too not till after he had twice publickly wronged me , which was refused , not to decline a meeting , but as reputing it too mean a satisfaction . for his reflective commendation of my prudence , because i did not , after their example , appoint a meeting without their notice ; it speaks so much the justice of my proceeding , that it reflects folly upon his mention of it , and not a little falseness too , since a meeting to be agreed upon by two parties , cannot be said to be lodged in any one of their breasts , without telling a manifest untruth . his black menace of us and our religion , with some hydr●an piece , suddenly to be publisht , we are very little solicitous about ; our consciences are approved to god in this matter ; and we hope ( through his assistance ( however misrepresented to the world ) before we have done , to approve our cause just in the minds of impartial people . to conclude ; since he tells us , that the baptists have received satisfaction in t. h's proceedings against us ( and great cause we have to believe , that some of them were not ignorant of his libel ) i do hereby soberly renew my solemn offer to them , and expect from them a publick meeting , wherein we may have leave , as viva voce , to repeat and defend our charges , as t. h. manifestly had to read and vindicate his dialogues . and be it known to all those baptists , that though the controversie fall in t. hicks , by our appeal to them ; yet that it riseth in them by their justification of him : therefore , as we can never acquiesce in their proceedings , which he calls a satisfaction , that have proved thus plainly injurious ; so from them do we yet expect that satisfaction , which we are bold to ask , and in hones●y they are bound to give us , in the face of a so●er auditory , at such time and place , as they and we , on conference , shall mutually appoint . the th of the th month , . william penn. s postscript . our inducement to the publication of these two papers was not vain glory , or worldly reputation ( which christ jesus our lord and saviour , hath taught us to dye to ) but singly the glory of god , the honour of his truth , and the rescuing of the minds of people , from those false reports they have been lately ensnared into the belief of , to the hurt of their immortal souls . good council and advice unto all professors in vvhom there is any tenderness and breathings after the lord, and the knowledge of his way. by one that hath in the light of the lord seen through them all, into the resting-place that is prepared for them that truly fear the lord. green, william, th cent. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) good council and advice unto all professors in vvhom there is any tenderness and breathings after the lord, and the knowledge of his way. by one that hath in the light of the lord seen through them all, into the resting-place that is prepared for them that truly fear the lord. green, william, th cent. sheet ([ ] p.) printed for robert wilson, at the black-spread eagle .., london : [ ] imprint date from wing. signed at end: william green. marston-trussel, the th of the third month . imperfect; cropped at head and foot with some loss of text. reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . god -- attributes -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion good council and advice unto all professors in whom there is any tenderness and breathings after the lord , and the knowledge of his way . by one that hath in the light of the lord seen through them all , into the resting-place that is prepared for them that truly fear the lord. hear all you professors of the towns of northampton and hardingstone , you whose profesion is waxed old as a garment ; hearken you that border about them , and are thereunto adjoining , listen as you that are inhabitants , for unto you it doth belong . the onely true god that framed the heavens , and laid the foundations of the earth , that created and made mankind in his own likeness , hath looked down from heaven , and hath beheld and seen how mankind is degenerated and fallen from that estate in the which he was made & brought forth , and hath committed the two great abominations in forsaking the living fountain and well-spring of life , and digged to themselves broken cisterns that will hold no water : and now the only wise god hath decreed a decree , and determined a determination , and purposed a purpose that must stand ; which is to try all sorts of people and professors under what name or title soever they may be known or called , that the bearer may be known from the hearer , and the sayer from the doer . and now awake , awake , awake , arise all you professors , come forth , and lay aside all your fig-leafed garments , and all your high notions of words , and come to the word that is ingrafted , which is able to save the soul that is immortal , that hath lain low , and hath been oppressed under all this profession , which hath not enjoyed the invisible life , which onely this could satisfie : and now it slandeth every one in hand , diligently to search , and truly to try and examine themselves whether they be in the faith that giveth victory over the world , the which slandeth in the power of god , christ jesus the light of the world , who is the rock of ages , the sure foundation upon which the holy men of god ( in ages and generations past ) were built , and their faith , hope and confidence was in him onely ; and so every one is to come to him which was the rock of ages and generations past , and is the rock of this present age ; and blessed are they that are built thereupon : for verily professors , you that have built , and are yet building with hey , straw and stubble , which wil not abide the fire , but with it are to be burned up , and there shall be none found to quench it ; therefore every one before you again begin to build , try what you build upon ; for in vain , and to no purpose will it be for you to build upon that which hath not been tryed : and come out of these changeable things , and out of all those noises , and crying up one thing for truth one while , and then for another time throw it down again , and say it was erroneous , superstition and popery , and such like , and was to be abolished and disannulled , and now cry the same up for truth again : but now come and wait upon the lord , and come into that in which there is no variableness nor shadow of turning , that when you are turning to the right hand , or to the left , the stil small voice you may come to hear , saying , this is the way , walk in it ; the voice that calleth for purity , and ( out of prophaneness ) for equity , and to do unto all men as you would that they should do unto you : and though for a long time the light hath shone in your dark hearts , and hath often times reproved you in secret when you did do , or speak that which you ought not to have acted or spoken ; yet this i say , turn , turn to that which reproves you ; for that which maketh manifest is light , and the reproof of instruction is the way to life ; and as it is written in the scriptures of truth , this is the condemnation of the world , that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light , because their deeds are evil ; but they that love the light , and thereunto are turned , bring their works and deeds to the light , that with it they may be proved whether they be wrought in god , yea or nay : but they that love their evil deeds more then the light , will not bring them to the light , because it wil reprove them . so now , flee from the mountains , and escape from the hills , and none any longer seek to hide your selves in the clists of the raggy rocks ; for now the lord is risen from amongst all these sects , and various opinions , and diversities of judgements , and changeable forms of worship that are not come ( neither will be perswaded ) to forsake their evil deeds , and come to that which changeth not , but liveth and abideth for euer . and now dear people this is the day of the lord , and none of you put it afar off ; verily the bowels of my love flow forth unto you , and my heart is even broken in the remembrance of you : oh , how have you pierced the jus ; t one , and grieved the good spirit of god in you from day to day , and would have none of his counsel , neither hearken to his reproof , but have cast his righteous law behind your backs , and done despight to the spirit of grace ! and now it would be just from the lord , that the day of your visitation should pass over your heads , which cannot again be recalled , but for the seeds sake , and those in whom there is any tenderness yet remains , and true breathings after the lord , which are not yet gathered unto the lord , and to his living witness in them ; in this their day there is a little dramm more of time added unto it , that they may be tryed unto the full , whether they will return to the lord that they may be preserved out of the mouths of the lyons , and out of the paw of the bear , and escape the wrath of the almighty , and the overflowing scourge that is coming upon the heads of the wicked and ungodly , that hate the lord , and desires not the knowledge of his way ; the which , neither hills nor mountains can stop or hinder , but it will them overtake unavoidably . written by the movings of the spirit of the lord ; and in love unto all that have desires after him , and are seeking of him where he is not to be found ; by one whose natural birth-right was , and outward being is , in the town of hardingstone in north-hampton-shire ; who am known to many people by the name of , william green . unto you priests and professors of the towns above mentioned , in particular is this chiefly written and given forth ; and by the author thereof you are desired to communicate is one to another ; but the service thereof reacheth unto all which in these things mentioned , are concerned , where ever this may come . marston-trussel , the th , of the third month . london , printed for robert wilson , at the black-spread-eagle and wind mill in m●●●●● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 jeremiah hignell's loving and friendly advice and council given forth to the inhabitants of bristol, and all others that may be concerned in other places. hignell, jeremiah, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) jeremiah hignell's loving and friendly advice and council given forth to the inhabitants of bristol, and all others that may be concerned in other places. hignell, jeremiah, d. . sheet ( p.) printed, by will. bonny, on the back, [bristol : [ ]] date of publication from wing. copy faded. reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- england -- bristol -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - scott lepisto sampled and proofread - scott lepisto text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion jeremiah hignell's loving and friendly . advice and council , given forth to the inhabitants of bristol , and all others that may be concerned in other places . my loving council and advice to you all who are my 〈◊〉 citizens and neighbours , and country men and women , without exception , is this , i would have you consider your 〈…〉 plainly with the lord whom we have to do with , and deal plainly wit● your own souls , and read in the book of conscience , what you are doing , and in plainness , see how your lives are squared by the truth , or by the law of god written in in your hearts or according to the testimonies of the prophets of god in times past , or according to the testimonies of christ jesus our lord , and according to his apostle's doctrine . this will hurt none either men , or women , young or old , to have this search pass through them in time , before it be too late ; for late repentance is not so good as early repentance . remember esaw , that sought his birth right with tears , but could not obtain it : yet i would not discourage any one that hath a true desire to turn unto the lord god of life , and power , for it is left upon record , i● the scriptures of truth , isaiah , . . and th . verses , seek ye the lord whilst he m●y be found , cast upon him whilst he is near : let the wicked forsa●e his wa● , and the vngodly man his thoughts , and let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him ; and unto our god , for be will abundantly pardon : so i would desire all to consider , who have spent their time in valnity and foolish pleasure , which will not profit , and still spend their time in pride , which is grown to a great height , the more is the pity , and i doubt , without timely repentance , and the great mercy of god , it will cause great sorrow ; for the long suffering and patience of god hath been great towards this city , and our native land , wherein god hath raised up such instruments that hath sought unto him in the time of need , to send yet a blessing upon poor england : but if god should make a desolation in the land , and particularly in this city , the righteous , i believe , should not be forsaken ; and i hope the lord will be yet intreated for this nation , if people would but return from that which is evil , and turn to that which is good. now some may say , how shall i learn to do that which is good ? oh! man , or woman , whosoever thou art , thou dost see that pride is a great sin , and drunkenness is a great sin , whereby the creatures are abused , that god doth give for the good of men , and women , and not to be wasted , but received with thankfullness , that so many poor people in the land that may want the comforts of them , even in this city , and other places that may be destitute , and whoredom is a great sin , let it be never so private ; the lord god of heaven and earth he sees you that are guilty . he that made the heaven and the earth , he beholdeth all things , he searcheth the heart , and tryeth the reins , he is near unto all . he that made the heart , he knoweth the heart , and he will judge them : swearing is a very great sin , even a crying sin , and it is grievous to hear so much of it about the streets ; so is murther a great and crying sin , which calls for vengeance , and which the commandements of god do testifie against ; and theft is a sore evil , which hangs in the skirts of some , and i would to god these things were laid aside by all that is guilty , and coveteouness is a great sin , which is said to be idolatry , as it is written , and many other great evils doth attend the sors and daughters of men , emulation , vvrath , prejudice , backbiteing , all this is for want of love , and the great fear of god to be set up in the heart , for the fear of god leepeth the heart clean . but i cannot pass by this great sin of pride which hath been set before me for above this two years , and i have reasoned with my self , how i should manifest my mind unto them that are walking in this way : but now i humbly desire the people to leave off this great sin of pride where ever it is found , whether in man or woman , of high or low degree , which is gotten up , as i may say , into a monster , if it be well taken notice of ; and with lamentation i speak it , for it is a grief to my soul , and therefore i beseech you , o neighbours and people , who are guilty of it , to lay it aside speedily , with all other the evil and ●…i●uities of what kind soever ; for these things will move god's wrath against the guilty , and draw down judgments upon this city , which hath so many people in it that my soul doth love ; and i travel for the good of all sorts , pride , idleness , and fullness of bread , as i remember , was the sins of ●odom , and shall not those that fear god , mourn before the lord , that he may divert he judgments , and turn away his displeas●re that is against the inhab●tants of this our city and native countries , i speak and write , i testifie in much meekness , and in humility of soul , if it were possible to perswade my loving fellow citizens , and countrey folks to turn to the lord , with a humble heart , and in this humble perswasion , i believe the lord will be with me , so i commend you to the grace of god , which is able to help in this great work of salvation , if you joyn with it , and turn not from it , for it teaches all that will be taught by it , to deny ungodliness and worldly luts , and to live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world , tit. . . for all have a measure of the grace that comes from god , and measure of the heavenly gift and manifestation of the spirit of god , which is given to every one to profit withall , cor. . . for god condemns not any for that they never had , but for what they have had , and not improved , but misused according to the testimony of the holy scriptures , john . . and this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil . and further , i have to signifie , that some that believe have a sight of spiritual things , for god doth reavel his mind and will by his spirit , but they will not take up the cross for fear of others , or being accounted fools , or differing from their neighbours ; and this is the true state of some , but i pray god to help those poor people out of this state , which will be an happiness to them , and so i will leave you all to god's grace , as i have done before , to teach you who are in any of the foregoing states and conditions , and commend my faithfull love to you , desiring that god may be with you in the great work of his salvation , which is revealed , and begun to be right spoken of in this day among a dispised people , even christ in man , the hope of glory , col. . . the end bristol , printed , by will. bonny , on the back . winchester prison the th day of the month, if the measure of my sufferings under the creuel hands of unreasonale men, be finished in this noysome prison by the laying down of my life, ... mellidge, anthony. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing m b). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing m b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) winchester prison the th day of the month, if the measure of my sufferings under the creuel hands of unreasonale men, be finished in this noysome prison by the laying down of my life, ... mellidge, anthony. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] signed at end: anthony melledg. title taken from caption title and first lines of text. imprint from wing. at foot of text, a description of two prisoners and a list of "close-prisoners in the common jayl and house of correction at winchester.". reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. eng mellidge, anthony -- early works to . prisoners' writings, english -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (wing m b). civilwar no winchester prison the th day of the month, . if the measure of my sufferings under the creuel hands of unreasonale men, be finished in mellidge, anthony c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion winchester prison the th day of the month , . if the measure of my sufferings under the creuel hands of unreasonable men , be finished in this noysome prison by the laying down of my life , ( in obedience to the lord that hath called me out of the way of sinners ) by reason of my tedious , unwholsome , and cruel sufferings this . months in this little filthy hole , which if at large were declared it might appear to be much , that my life , ( and others ) hath been preserved to this day , but if not much longer ; this i declare for truths sake , & desire to have laid before the eies of the chief rulers of this nation , that none hereafter may say , that lb ought these cruel sufferings upon my self , or that by negligence or wilfulness i was the occasion of my own death as it was said of iames parnel ; for i was travelling towards london with goods upon lawful occasions , and forth of an inn about the th . hower of the night , was i taken with a warrant , and no man charged any thing against me but iohn bunkly in his mittimus falsely writ several misdemeanors , but never proved in the least : and at an assises after , by judge windham was i committed to the house of correction , until i engage to go home , whose business then lay from home at london . and a free man born in the nation i am , and also for my liberty in it from such cruel tyranny , have served . years in the late war at sea , who sometime was a captain of a friggot at sea ; and since i was a prisoner thus unjustly here , i have with the rest of my dear brethren with me , declared in print , in a book tituled , the fruits of unrighteousness , brought forth by ioh. bunkly , who unjustly committed . of us into prison , when he was in a passion as he confest : that we are ready to submit to all the lawes of the nation either actively or passively , & desire to know by what law i am kept here , and have not been wanting to use any means lawful in the sight of god , for my liberty out of this stinking place , but nothing hath prevailed upon the hardned hearts of the sons of men ; who though they keep us in close prison , to have us engage to go home , or out of the county , yet wil. bayly born in the county , ( committed in one mittimus with me & also hum. smith ) could not obtain liberty from justice nor jayler to go home , which is out of the county , when his father dyed , & one of his own three small motherless children not well . therefore let all people that fear the lord , take notice how unmercifuly they deal with him & the rest , & with me , who have been sick many dayes ( or weeks ) & am now waxed very weak by reason of the cruel sufferings my body hath here endured , and my soul ( with the rest of my dear friends ) grieved by most barbarous wicked common drunken swearing prisoners , & our bodies dayly abused by them , and condemned persons , and beaten , and like to be murthered by such as one of them said he was for the king so long as he lived , & termed the states service at sea piracie under whose cruel hands it is most unreasonable we should be kept : & a most filthy beastly woman jayler setting them on , and hath also lockt a rude bawling madman into the hoal where we are , on purpose to do me what mischief she could , which man soon devoured what i had to nourish my body when i was sick and weak ; and frinds were lockt up also that they could not get more ●or me ; and the noyse of the madman did me much more hurt , then the want of water or nourishment ; for my body which now lyeth in a filthy hoal , in a weak condition upon the ground with straw , where they were used to put condemned persons , and where we have long wanted room to lie one by another , being a hoal more fit for swine , where the spewing and piss of the drunken prisoners that lie above us , have commonly come down where we lie , and on our faces in the night , and on our food as we were eating : and most noysome stinks and filthy scents have i suffered , by being shut up in it close prisoner ten months , having no place for ayre , but in a smoaky filthy close place , where for four months i cannot see the sun , which place is as a dunghil , or common place of filth for all the prison , and much more the like , or worse may be writ of it . out of which bonds and inhumane sufferings , i do claim my right and freedome in the nation , which i & the rest of my dear suffering friends have so dearly purchased , and also paid tribute , sesements and taxes , & yet of law & liberty we are deprived ; having not in the least spake or done any thing worthy of death or of bonds , if i had , less then . months imprisonment satisfieth the law in many things , though nothing but blood , nor that neither will satisfie the cruel wills of men , under whose tyranny upon the lord i wait to be releast , with the rest of my brethren seven in number , who innocently do suffer , but if not , my life i give up into the will of him whose it is that redeems the soul out of bondage , & let them by whom i thus suffer & them who may release me , & the rest , and will not , take heed of innocent blood . and this is written for me being weak my self upon a little straw , from which i have not been many dayes , to the truth whereof i write my name anthony melledg . iames potter imprisoned and nothing proved against him , was by judge nichols , fined five pound to the late protecto● for wearing his hat , and hath been a prisoner almost years . elizabeth streeter imprisoned from her sucking child , and fined five pound for speaking some words of truth to a priest in the high way , and of her husbands servants imprisoned by rob. reynolds ( who also committed her ) contrary to law and never yet brought to any tryal . close-prisoners in the common jayl and house of correction at winchester . will. bayly . humphery smith . athony melledg . richard baker . iames pottar . will. baker . elizabeth streeter . something offered to the consideration of all those who have had a hand in putting the late made act, (entituled, an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles) in execution for the sake of such who have any tenderness towards the innocent; and also for the information of all others, who have had, shall or may have, a hand in putting in execution the said act, i shall offer something to shew, whom and what exercises of religion are concerned in and by the said act, and what not, according to the most true natural genuine litteral sense and meaning thereof, and no other wise. gibson, thomas, quaker. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) something offered to the consideration of all those who have had a hand in putting the late made act, (entituled, an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles) in execution for the sake of such who have any tenderness towards the innocent; and also for the information of all others, who have had, shall or may have, a hand in putting in execution the said act, i shall offer something to shew, whom and what exercises of religion are concerned in and by the said act, and what not, according to the most true natural genuine litteral sense and meaning thereof, and no other wise. gibson, thomas, quaker. p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. signed and dated at end: written in the first month, . by thomas gibson, prisoner in newgate, .. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng public general acts. . car.ii.c. -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- england -- law and legislation -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . great britain -- history -- charles ii, - -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion something offered to the consideration of all those who have a hand in putting the late made act , ( entituled , an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles ) in execution . for the sake of such who have any tenderness towards the innocent ; and also for the information of all others , who have had , shall or may have , a hand in putting in execution the said act , i shall offer something to shew , whom and what exercises of religion are concerned in and by the said act , and what not , according to the most true natural genuine litteral sense and meaning thereof , and no otherwise . i shall begin with the title and preamble of the said act , and then come to the body of it . this act is entituled , an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles . it seems , there is , or may be , several sorts of conventicles , as the word conventicle doth import , which is a conveening of several persons together for some end and purpose or other . now there may be a convening of persons together for good ends , as there may be a convening of persons together for evil ends . there may be a convening of persons together honestly , and justifiably , upon a religious account ; as there may be a convening of persons together in order to the sowing or spreading of sedition : which latter , this act , by the title of it , seems to be made to prevent & suppress , as appears by joyning the explanatory word seditious to conventicle , viz. an act to prevent & suppress [ seditious conventicles . ] and this doth further appear by comparing therewith the preamble or reason of the act , which runs thus : for providing therefore of further and more speedy remedies against the growing and dangerous practices of [ seditious sectaries ] and other disloyal persons , &c. here the word [ seditious ] is used again , and joyned to sectaries and other disloyal persons . now the word sectary , as it is generally accepted , doth import persons of several opinions or practices in matters of religion , differing from the established religion of nations , and such as for conscience-sake cannot conform thereunto . these , as truly such , † seem not to be the persons intended in this act , but such , and only such , as are seditious sectaries , and under pretence of tender consciences , do at their meetings contrive insurrections , or sow sedition among the people ; so that both by the title and preamble this act doth pretend at least to be made to punish seditious sectaries , and to suppress their meetings , and not to punish the truly consciencious , nor suppress the meetings of those who meet together not under any colour , but really and truly to worship god as he doth require and perswade them in their own hearts and consciences . but as if the title and preamble were only specious pretences of a law against seditious and disloyal persons , to colour over foul intentions in the body of the act , which seems to look a quite contrary way , and is so made use of , and runs thus ; be it enacted , &c. that if any person , &c. shall be present at any assembly , conventicle or meeting , under [ colour or pretence ] of any exercise of religion [ in other manner than is allowed , &c. ] the words [ under colour or pretence ] seem to relate to the preamble of the act. but then the matter of fact , or that which makes the meeting unlawful , so as the being present at it becomes an offence , ought to have been expressed to be the plotting or contriving insurrections , or the doing of some action or other , that might render the meeting [ a seditious meeting , under the colour or pretence of religious exercise ] which would then have held proportion with the title and preamble or reason of the act ; and might have been counted a reasonable law , as all laws ought to be : for right reason , according to the law of god , is ( or ought to be ) the ground or foundation of all law. and that law that hath not right reason for its foundation , is null and void in it self ; and will never be of , nor bear any authority over sober and reasonable men , nor answer to the witness of god in the consciences of the transgressors . but this not being such , nor so to be understood , as the judges and executors of the law do declare , both by word and practice . it seems to be an unnatural , unreasonable and unequal law , and not at all like what it pretends it self to be , namely , an act to prevent and suppress [ seditious conventicles ] or to prevent the growing and dangerous practices of [ seditious sectaries ] and other disloyal persons , who under pretence of tender consciences , do at their meetings contrive insurrections , &c. i say , as interpreted and made use of by our reasonless judges , justices and executors of the law , it is so far from being what it pretends it self to be , to wit , a law to punish the guilty , such as pretend to one thing and do another , that it 's made use of to punish the innocent ; ( to wit ) such as are really , and do truly what they pretend themselves to be and do , that is , are truly tender in conscience , and do meet ( not only under pretence of religious exercise , but ) really and truly to worship god in a peaceable quiet manner , ( or , to use the kings own words in the aforementioned declaration ) do modestly and without scandal perform their devotion in their own way . but it seems that principally which makes the meeting unlawful , is , the exercise of religion , being [ in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgie or practice of the church of england , &c. ] if it be so that the religious exercise it self is that which the law is made against , and that , because in the manner of it , it may not be allowed by the lyturgy or practice of the church of england ; then this doth make it further appear to be an unnatural and unreasonable law : for , as there is no reason rendred , so there is no reason to be rendred , for the making of a law to limit or restrain all people in their religious exercises to the allowance of the lyturgy or practice of the church of england . for the lyturgy , upon which the practice of the church of england in this case seems to be grounded , hath at most but the ordering , direction and prescription of humane authority for its establishment ; but the true religion , and religious exercise , that god accepts , as well to the manner as to the matter of it , must be performed according to the ordering , direction , prescription and assistance of the spirit of god ; and cannot ( neither is there any reason why it should ) be limited to the allowance or prescription of the lyturgy , or any humane practice or invention whatsoever , especially if it be true : as it was said by some judges and executioners of this law , viz. that to worship god in spirit and truth , is to worship god in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgie or practice of the church of england . and if it be so , that the lyturgy and practice of the church of england is so far degenerated from the spirit of truth , that neither the one nor the other doth so much as allow of worshipping god in spirit and in truth , as these men say , o how can they blame those that separate from such a church , as from an harlot or menstruous woman , that a man cannot touch but he must be defiled ! if the manner of the religious exercise be that which makes the meeting lawful or unlawful , then it seems the chief force of the act is in these words ( viz. ) shall be present at any assembly , conventicle or meeting , under [ colour or pretence ] of any exercise of religion , in other manner than is allowed , &c. and then the words [ colour or pretence ] in this place is not to be understood to look back to those mentioned in the preamble , who under pretence of tender consciences do at their meetings contrive insurrections , &c. but to look forward to the manner of the religious exercise , and then the word colour is improper in this place , which can no otherwise be understood , but to make the pretence of religious exercise to be a colour for some evil action intended : but to take the word pretence apart from colour , and then it may be understood to intend no more than that which is beforehand declared or foreshewn of the intention of the meeting ; and in this sence i am willing to understand and make use of the word pretence in what follows : and then it is clear that the principal offence in the law is , the religious exercise it self , and that in the manner of it . there are several qualifications which must concur to make the persons present at meetings , offenders against this act ; they are as followeth . . the meeting must be under pretence of some exercise of religion . . that exercise of religion must be in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgy or practice of the church of england . . there must be five persons present , over and above the persons of the family . . the persons present must be of the age of sixteen years or more , and subjects of this realm . it seems this act is not against all meetings , but only against such meetings as are under pretence of some exercise of religion ; neither is it against all meetings under pretence of exercise of religion , but only such as are in private families , and within the forementioned qualifications : for , . if the meeting be under pretence of religious exercise , yet if the religious exercise be in no other manner than is allowed , &c. this meeting is not within the act , although there be five persons or more present besides the persons of the family . . if the religious exercise used , be in other manner than is allowed ; if there be not five persons or more present , of the age of sixteen years , and subjects of this realm , this meeting is not within the said act. quer. what meetings then are those within the act ? answ . such meetings as are within all the qualifications , the principal of which are the two first , viz. the meeting being under pretence of religious exercise in other manner than is allowed , &c. then it seems the manner of the religious exercise is the principal qualification that makes the meeting either lawful or unlawful ; and that as it is either allowed or disallowed by the lyturgy and practice of the church of england . then the question is , what exercises of religion , as to the manner of them , are , and what are not allowed by the lyturgie or practice of the church of england ? answ . such exercises of religion as have prescript forms or manners for the exercise thereof , and no other forms or manners are allowed of ; such exercises of religion , if not performed in the same form or manner as is prescribed , are in other manner than is allowed , &c. but all such exercises of religion as have no prescript forms nor manners but the practice of the church of england , is , to leave all persons to use their own forms or manners , such exercises of religion cannot be performed , in other manner than is allowed , &c. those exercises of religion used in private families which have prescript forms , are baptism , the visitation of the sick , and administration of the communion ( as they call it ) to the sick person , and others with him . now if any of these exercises of religion , or any other that have prescript forms , be performed in any other manner than is prescribed , at any meeting where there shall be five persons or more present , over and above the persons of the family , this meeting is within the act , and the persons present , if within the other qualifications , may be punished by it . those exercises of religion that have no prescript forms , are these , viz. preaching , prayer out of churches ( so called ) and conference or the like . there is no prescript form of preaching , no prescript form of prayer in private ( except as is before exprest ) no prescript form of conference , but every man is left to use his own form or manner in all these exercises of religion ; so that these exercises of religion cannot be performed in other manner than is allowed , &c. and then where-ever these exercises of religion , or such like , are used , and no other , that have prescript forms , though there be five persons or more present over and above the persons of the family , yet this meeting is not within the said act. if it be the practice of the church of england to allow all persons to use their own forms or manners in such exercises of religion to which no forms or manners are prescribed , then i query to all you judges , justices & executors of the law , what exercises of religion have been performed in the meetings of those peaceable people , in scorn called quakers , whom you have so violently persecuted under pretence of the said act , that hath been in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgy [ or ] practice of the church of england ? i say , shew us and the nation what they are , and how they have been performed in other manner than is allowed , &c. and if you do not ( as sure you cannot ) then will not the nation , as well as we , see that you make the law but a meer pretence and colour , under which you execute your own wrath , enmity and prejudice against the innocent . and then it is time for you to cease your false and opprobrious language of rebellion , stubbornness and disobedience to the laws , to those who are made subject in their spirits , not only to the law of god , but also to all just and equal laws of men , and see your selves to be those stubborn , disobedient and stiffnecked persons , not only against the law of god in your selves and others , but also against the justice , equity and truth of the laws of this nation ; and also the very letter of the law , under pretence of which you have injured , wronged and spoiled so many hundreds , not only in their liberties and estates , but very many of their lives also . oh surely the lord will yet again , as in dayes past , arise and plead the cause of the innocent and oppressed , and raise up the spirit of justice and true judgment in this nation ; and then in that day how will you be able to answer or make satisfaction for the hundredth part of that dammage and spoil you have made upon the innocent ! o therefore that you might hear and fear , repent and do no more so , that the judgment threatned you might escape . but to return . i shall take it for granted , till it be denied , that it is the practice of the church of england , to allow all persons to use their own forms or manners in such exercises of religion as have no forms or manners prescribed : and then i say , first , to you in commission for the peace , or chief magistrates of corporations , that unless it doth appear or be proved to you , that there are private meetings , where there is some exercise of religion or other used , that have prescript forms , and are used in other manner than is prescribed , it is not lawful for you to find or commit the persons , present at such meetings , to prison , for refusing to pay fines wrongfully imposed on them ; but rather protect and defend the peaceable and quiet meetings of such , who at their meetings use no other manner of exercise of religion but such as is allowed by the lyturgy [ or ] practice of the church of england . dly . you of the grand jury , who have sworn to make your presentments free from fear , favour or reward , and to present the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth , how can you with good conscience present any for being present at an assembly , conventicle or meeting , under colour and pretence of exercise of religion [ in other manner than is allowed , &c. ] when nothing of the religious exercise , or manner of it , hath been proved to you ; and if it hath , then ought you not to express the particular exercise of religion , with the manner of it , in the bill of presentment , that it may appear to others , as well as to your selves , that it was in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgy or practice of the church of england ? dly . i shall say somehing to you of the petty jury , in whom the final judgment in this matter doth reside : you take this oath following ; viz. you shall well and truly try , and true deliverance make , between our soveraign lord the king , and the prisoners at the bar ( whom you shall have in charge ) according to your evidence . so help you god. it seems you are sole judges between the king and the prisoners at the bar , as to the matter of fact , and this you are to do truly , according to your evidence . now when indictments come before you upon the said act , you are warily to consider the indictment , which ought to express the particular exercise of religion used at such meetings ; but if it run only in general terms , as hitherto they have done , that the persons named were present at such a time , in such a place , at an assembly , conventicle or meeting , under colour or pretence of exercise of religion [ in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgie or practice of the church of england . ] you being sworn to go according to your evidence , you ought to have clear and sufficient evidence in all the afore-mentioned particular qualifications ; also , that these very persons have been twice before convicted of the like offence before two justices of the peace , or the chief magistrate of such corporation where there is not two justices of the peace , in due manner , and according to the form of the statute in that case made and provided ; which must appear upon record under their hands and seals : which record ought to express the matter of fact , with all plainness and clearness ; not in general terms , for that is not sufficient , but ought to express the particular exercise of religion , with the manner of it , that it may appear to you , the persons were duly convicted as the law requires . and this you are to consider , that the matter of fact , which ought to be proved to you , is twofold ; the first and principal is , that the exercise of religion used at such meetings was in other manner than is allowed , &c. else the second matter of fact , to wit , the being present at the meeting , can be no offence : which must be proved by shewing , that the religious exercise used was some exercise of religion to which the church of england hath prescribed a particular form , and notwithstanding was performed in other manner than is prescribed , else it cannot be in other manner than is allowed , &c. as is before expressed . if these things cannot be proved , you are perjured men that shall give in your verdict , that the prisoners are guilty in manner and form as they stand indicted , when the principal part of the matter of fact is not proved unto you . if the judge shall say , as he useth to do , that having proved that the persons mentioned were at the meeting , and that the meeting was upon a religious account : here is the matter of fact clearly proved , and there needs no more to find the persons guilty . i say , and am ready to maintain it , that such evidence is not sufficient to prove the indictment : for though this is matter of fact , yet it is not all the matter of fact ; nay , it 's but the least part : for the principal matter of fact is the religious exercise , being in other manner than is allowed , &c. and if this be not proved , though the other be proved never so clear , yet you cannot with good conscience , according to your oaths , bring the persons in guilty in manner and form as they stand indicted : for consider , the indictment doth not only say , that the persons mentioned were present in such a place at a meeting , under colour or pretence of exercise of religion , but also under colour or pretence of exercise of religion in other manner than is allowed by the lyturgy or practice of the church of england : and so saith the act : but on the contrary , ought to acquit or bring in the prisoner not guilty of the indictment , lest the judgement and severity of god ( to whom alone in point of conscience you are accountable in this matter ) take hold of you , as it hath done of some , who through fear have , contrary to their consciences , consented , with others , to the bringing-in the innocent guilty , in manner and form as they stood indicted : witness thomas leader his acknowledgment , in a paper in print under his own name , entituled , the wounded-heart , or the jury-mans offence declared , &c. what i have written , i shall commit and commend to the witness of god in the consciences of all concerned , especially you that may serve of this jury , that so you may see your own work more plain and clear before you , and be left without excuse . written in the first month , . by thomas gibson , prisoner in newgate , under the unjust sentence of transportation to jamaica . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e † for to such all the king's promises of indulgence are renewed in his declaration of the th of decemb. . which see more at large . the quaker converted; or the experimental knowledg of jesus christ crucified, in opposition to the principles of the quakers, declared in a narrative of the conversion of one in hartfordshire, who was for some years of their faith and principle, and inclined unto them. the manner how he was wrought off from them by the lord. and several dealings of christ with his spirit afterwards. with some things annexed for detection of their errors and delusions, and prevention of the growth thereof. written by himself in his own words and phrases. likewise an epistle dedicatory by w. haworth, minister of the gospel at hartford. dimsdale, william. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the quaker converted; or the experimental knowledg of jesus christ crucified, in opposition to the principles of the quakers, declared in a narrative of the conversion of one in hartfordshire, who was for some years of their faith and principle, and inclined unto them. the manner how he was wrought off from them by the lord. and several dealings of christ with his spirit afterwards. with some things annexed for detection of their errors and delusions, and prevention of the growth thereof. written by himself in his own words and phrases. likewise an epistle dedicatory by w. haworth, minister of the gospel at hartford. dimsdale, william. haworth, william. xiii, [ ], p. printed for j. robinson, at the golden-lion in paul's church-yard, london : . signed at end: w.d. [i.e. william dimsdale]. wing attributes text to william haworth, though he wrote the 'epistle dedicatory' only. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng testimony of the hartford quakers for the man christ jesus -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quaker converted : or , the experimental knowledg of jesus christ crucisied , in opposition to the principles of the quakers , declared ; in a narrative of the conversion of one in hartfordshire , who was for some years of their faith and principle , and inclined unto them . the manner how he was wrought off from them by the lord. and several dealings of christ with his spirit afterwards . with some things annexed for detection of their errors and delusions , and prevention of the growth thereof . written by himself in his own words and phrases . likewise an epistle dedicatory by w. haworth , minister of the gospel at hartford . john . . search the scriptures . — they are they which testify of me . mat. . . for there shall arise false christs , and false prophets , and shew great signs and wonders ; insomuch ( that if it were possible ) they shall deceive the very elect. john . . ye worship ye know not what : we know what we worship ; for salvation is of the jews . acts. . . therefore [ david ] being a prophet , and knowing that god bad sworn with an oath to him , that of the fruit of his loins , according to the flesh , he would raise up christ to sit on his throne : . — spake of the resurrection of christ . — . therefore let all the house of israel know assuredly , that god hath made that same jesus whom ye have crucified , both lord and christ , ch. . . him hath god exalted with his right hand , to be a prince and a saviour , for to give repentance to israel , and forgiveness of sins . john . . — when the comforter is come — be shall testify of me . ch. . . he shall glorify me , for be shall receive of mine , and shall shew it unto you . joh. . . hereby know ye the spirit of god ; every spirit that confesseth that jesus christ is come in the flesh , is of god. heb. . . — christ was once offered to bear the sins of many . ch. . . this man , after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever , sat down on the right hand of god. act . . and by him all that believe , are justified from all things , from which ye could not be justified by the law of moses . 〈◊〉 . . therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith , without the deeds of the law. read likewise rom. . . ch. . . cor. . . cor. . . & act. . . london , printed for j. robinson , at the golden-lion in paul's church-yard , . the epistle dedicatory . to the church of christ at hartford . well-beloved in the lord. in this relation which follows , you may see some of the quakers rotten opinions . you may remember how joyful we were when the lord cast this young-man unexpectedly amongst us ; how our hearts were refreshed in the speaking forth of these ensuing things : and whereas we had mourned that some had gone out from our meetings to them , in this one instance the lord hath abundantly made it up to us , let christ have the glory . none of those that went out from us were properly of us , had received the gospel that we believe ; no , it 's not possible for any to receive it truly , and forsake it : but this young man was fully of their way , spirit , faith , and principle , ( as any may see by reading this little book . ) though he made not such an open profession as others of them , yet went farther than most of them towards that which they call perfection : yea , he was , as luther said of himself before his conversion , an honest monk , so an honest quaker , true to his perswasion . i have thought it meet , by the advice of my worthy brethren in the ministry , to expose this narrative to the open view , although the meanness of the person 's education , and the little time he hath had for proficiency in the knowledg of the gospel , might discourage in this matter on the one hand ; yet on the other hand , the profit that we hope may be reaped ( through the lord's blessing ) by many , especially at hartford , in the reading of it , both as to the reducing some from them , and preventing some staggering ones , confirming also others in the faith of the gospel , hath prevailed with me to print it . and indeed , instances of this nature are so famous and rare , viz. for any to be recovered from this betwitching ; and this instance none of the least , that i could in conscience do no other . this withal being an experience that the lord in rich mercy gave him , i hope will take the deeper impression upon the minds of people : for my own part i see such clear , distinct , sound gospel , knowledg in it , that i dare say confidently it is no other than the finger , the eminent finger of god upon his dear elect child : and the more remarkable is it , in that be was a stranger to us all , conversed with none of us , most of these things were taught him alone in the reading of the scriptures . flesh and blood hath not revealed this to thee , may we truly say , but our father which is in heaven ; the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the mystery of the father and the son hath been upon him . o that every one of you ( my dear brethren ) and every one in hartford had the knowledg of christ thus distinctly formed in you ! till which thing be , the soul of him , to whom christ hath committed you as his charge , shall travail in birth , and be in pain : blessing the lord that his poor labours have not altogether been in vain as to this matter . o that it might please christ to direct my faithful brethren in the ministry , in their respective places where they are cast in the countreys , to open and insist more on the great new-testament fundamental truths in the blood of christ ! my daily prayer to christ is , that we all may he made able ministers of the new-testament : we have but law and gospel to preach , let us keep them distinctly in their places ; the law for the knowledg and conviction of sin , yea of first evil motions to be sin . the law is spiritual , rom. . and requires perfect and perpetual obedience of every one that will be justified by it , and admits of no repentance at all in case of any failure . now the law is weak through the flesh , rom. . man is breaking it every moment by his crooked thoughts : this would let a man see his sins to be mountanous and innumerable , and so bring down every high thought , and lay him low , giving him to see the need of the righteousness of another , not being able to answer the requirements of the law ; thus the law is our schoolmaster to christ . then the gospel , the balm of the doctrine of the free justification of a sinner in the blood of christ ; for the wound , this oile to be poured into the gashes of conscience , how would it heal , settle , confirm , comfort ; and the soul thus finding a saviour and sweetness in christ , this would be as new wine , and be would soon discern all poisonous drinks . whoever bath tasted that the lord is gracious , never takes up with the quakers christ . o that the gospel were studied by us , and preached by us more ! these things that follow have established me in the preaching of it . . that the parity and holiness of god's majesty is such , that nothing is accepted of him but what is every way perfect and compleat . we are very prone to measure god by the rule of our own imagination ; and to think that what appears to be righteousness with us , is so with him : whereas we are to conceive of god according as the scriptures set him forth to us , and to bring our righteousness to the bar of his tribunal , and see whether it will bear the tryal , see whether it will hold out to justify in his sight ; when as job . . the heavens are not clean in his sight . job . . he chargeth his angels with folly ; which is too little to speak of the bad angels . . none of the sons of men since adam's fall ( that was no more than man ) hath ever brought , neither can any of them bring this perfect and compleat righteousness to god : look to the best men that ever were sanctified , and that eminently by the holy ghost , yea some of the prophets , patriarchs , and penmen of the holy scriptures , see what they say of themselves , and what is said of them . abraham had righteousness , he had works ; yet rom. . . these were not to be gloried in before god , only in the sight of men : david , psal . . . prayeth to god in this manner , enter not into judgment with thy servant , for in thy sight , &c. therefore psal . . . he placeth the blessedness of man in the forgiveness of sins ; blessed is he whose sin is covered , &c. which is mentioned in rom. . isiah c. . . i am a man of unclean lips , chap. . . we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousness , &c. hear job , called a perfect man c. . . if i wash my self with snow-water , and make my hands never so clean , v. . yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch , and mine own cloaths shall abhor me . let us look at daniel , so much beloved of god , how he confesseth sin , as well for himself as the people , dan. . . ezra likewise c. . . paul in rom. . , . tells us , that all , both jews and gentiles , of whom the world consisted , were under sin , and not one righteous . ver. . all fallen short of the glory of god. job . . . if we say we have no sin , we lye , &c. he writes to those that were called , and sanctified , and takes in himself with them , and all saints that ever were , or ever should be . and it s but a lie to rest so in any righteousness , as to take us off from confession of sin. this is spoken to make them prize the more , forgiveness of sin by christ's blood. . jesus christ of nazareth that was born at bethelem , that was of the seed of david according to the flesh , brought this righteousness . he was called the holy one , and the just ; in daniel he is called the most holy ; in jeremiah , the righteous branch : in peter , a lamb without spot and blemish : in cor. . ult . knew no sin. now this came to pass , . in that he was born of a virgin in an extraordinary way . luke . . the holy ghost shall come upon thee , and the power of the highest shall over shadow thee ; therefore that holy thing that shall be born of thee , &c. thus there was no original sin in him , or upon him . . he who brought this righteousness , was the holy one , in that being the anointed , having the spirit without measure , by his active obedience in his life absolutely and compleatly fulfilled the law of god in all things , and at all times ; rom. . . that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us . how can that be , but only as christ in our nature fulfilled it for us by his holy life ? mat. . he came to fulfil the law : i come to do thy will , o god , in hebr. . . now this was required in the sanction of the law , viz. do this and live , either we must , or another for us , otherwise no life : we could not , through weakness in the fall , therefore christ came and did all in our place and stead . . by laying down a full price for the sin of his people by the sacrifice of himself , suffering death on the cross without the gates at jerusalem . therefore this his giving himself to death , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a satisfactory price of redemption in the room , and place , and stead of another . that god hath justice in him , the very light of nature sheweth , rom. . ult . it 's said of the heathens , who knowing the judgment of god , i. e. his vindictive justice ; the barbarous people , acts . . could say , vengeance would not suffer paul to live , when they saw the viper upon his hand , apprehending him to be a murderer . they saw this in the deity , viz. a vengeance ready to punish sin. now this is as dear to him as his mercy , it being himself , it must therefore be satisfied , being wronged by the sin of man ; and he cannot deny himself . and if it should rest upon those that had sinned , it would have burned to the lowest hell , and , and so the lord would have been deprived of all worship and service from his people : but now this way it is satisfied , viz. the father poured out all his wrath upon his son jesus christ , upon whom the guilt of his people was charged ; isa . . all our iniquities met upon him ; and therefore it 's said in that d chapter , he was bruised , striken of god. in gal. . . made a curse . zach. . awake , o sword , against thy shepherd , against the man my fellow , smite the shepherd : and now he being god as well as man , his fellow , co-equal , bare up under this wrath. . this righteousness of jesus christ , becomes ours by imputation ; it is reckoned ours , and accounted ours by the father's act : as if we had thus done and suffered , these scriptures speak thus much , viz. rom. . . by the obedience of one , many are [ made ] righteous . cor. . ult . that we might be made the righteousness of god in him. now we are made righteousness in the same way as he was made sin , for these two are set in contradiction to one another ; but he was not made sin by inhesion , for he knew no sin ; therefore this way , viz. by imputation . jer. . . he shall be called ( i. e. he shall really be ) jehovah tsidkenu , the lord our righteousness ; he had spoke of him as the righteous branch , springing up from david , as being made flesh in the th verse , and here , as jehovah . here is both his manhood and godhead , and as thus he is our righteousness . this cannot be spoken of the light that every man hath : for , is that the branch from david ? or , is that jehovah , god that gives being to all things ? nor of the spirit , that cannot be called the branch . nor of faith , nor of works , of what sort soever ; but only of jesus christ , that he is our righteousness : not only giveth righteousness , but he is our righteousness by imputation . the doctrine of imputation of christ's righteousness , ( though w. pen , in his serious apology , pag. . blasphemously calls it , a doctrine of devils ) is very rational to them that are taught of god. . if the guilt of adam's first transgression was ours by imputation , which cannot be denied , from rom. . . in whom all have finned : if that first sin , so many thousand years since ; why not the righteousness of christ sixteen hundred years since ? if that to all his seed and children , why not this to christ's seed and children ? . if christ jesus had the guilt of sin really charged upon him , and imputed , when as he had no sin inherent , what else is to be understood by that , cor. . ult . he was made sin ? if , as some would have it , only the punishment of sin , in being offered and sacrificed . punishment hath always respect to sin , otherwise it is not poena , but must change its name , then the guilt of the sin of his people must be imputed to him . and this was plainly sigured in the sacrifices under the law , when all the sins of israel were confessed over the heads of the beasts , and so offered and slain : if this be true , why not then christ's righteousness to become ours the same way , viz. by imputation . . was not christ the second adam , and so a common head and representative ? now what such an one doth , is as much as if they did it that are represented . christ was a surety , heb. . . why then , his paiment is ours ; what he had , did and suffered , was not so much for himself , as for his members . fifthly , there is much difference betwixt this righteousness of christ , and that which the apostle paul calls his own , in phil. . . in which he saith , he would not be found in the day of judgment to be justified by in the sight of god : there be makes a plain difference betwixt those two righteousnesses , viz. his own , which he calls the righteousness of the law , and that which is through the faith of christ , which he calls the righteousness of god. . our own righteousness is within us , inhering in our souls . it consists in those gifts and vertues that the spirit of god works in our minds , and we express these outwardly in the observation of the moral law in our walkings amongst men : now that this is properly our own righteousness , though it is effected by the spirit in us . . see how the scripture speaks of it ; faith is called your faith , and love is called your love , col. . . in deut. . . it shall be our righteousness if we keep his commandments . job . . my righteousness i hold fast , and will not let it go . matth. . . except your righteousness exceed , &c. . our souls are the subjects of this righteousness ; it is really in our minds , therefore ours . . we put forth the actions wherein this righteousness consists , both internal and external : is it not we that believe , and we that repent , though the spirit works faith in us ? god is said to work in us to will , phil. . yet we will , to do , yet we act , and we perform : are not we said to pray , though the spirit works prayer in our hearts ? . was not adam's grace which was concreated with him , properly his own ? yes surely , then this is our own righteousness , though wrought in us by the spirit . but that righteousness of faith , by which we are justified , is wholly without us in the person of christ : it was wrought out six hundred years since : and not one act , either of our bodies or minds , contributes any thing to it , our faith is no part of it ; only by faith we receive , and view , and apprehend that which justifies us . and whereas it is said , abraham believed , and it was accounted to him for righteousness : not the action of bebelieving , but that which he rested upon by faith justified , and was his righteousness : one then is christ's personal obedience , the other is our personal obedience ; one that which christ wrought , the other that which we work ; one is given of god from heaven , and rests upon faith , the other is here upon earth , by works : our righteousness is but the righteousness of meer man ; the other , the righteousness of him that was god as well as man ; otherwise we ought not to trust unto it ; for , cursed is every one that trusteth in the arm of flesh : one is perfect and compleat , the other is faulty , imperfect , incompleat as to degree . . this righteousness thus opened , is marvellously well-pleasing to the father ; mat. . this is my beloved son , in whom i am well-pleased ; this is spoke of christ as mediator , representing all his people ; the father looks through him at all his members , and is well-pleased with them : the father's love from christ the son is diffused to all the elect ; this voice came for our sakes . ephes . . . an offering and a sacrifice to god for a sweet-smelling savour ; the father's heart is at rest in this , it perfumes all the church with its odour : cor. . ult . it is called the righteousness of god , ( i. e. ) the righteousness which he approves highly of ; because the righteousness which he in his infinite wisdom contrived , and the righteousness of his own son , that is of the same nature with the father , in this our persons are accepted ; ephes . . . we are accepted in the beloved , and our prayers and works . pet. . . spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god through jesus christ . heb. . . by faith abel offered a more acceptable sacrifice ; and without this it 's not possible to please god. this righteousness we have to offer to sinners in the preaching of the gospel ; and by preaching it thus , we do not make void , but establish the law : we see by this , how we are saved by the law , viz. christ keeping it for us , by a covenant of works ; christ being made under the law , he fulfilled it : here is a sweet harmony between law and gospel , now they kiss each other in christ , so far from being one against the other . the poor , heavy , laden soul , will thankfully receive this righteousness , and rejoice and glory in it ; the sick , this cordial ; the starved prodigal , this which is bread indeed : but the proud pharisee , the self-righteous one , the rich justiciary , he that is whole . the quaker goes about to make his own righteousness to stand , and will not submit to this , but despiseth it ; and what will be the issue , but to wonder and perish ? give me leave to say , that want of inculcating these things in our ministry , hath been the cause that so many have been led away with the error of the quakers ; and that professors are not out of danger , till they be made more skilful in the word of righteousness . who sees not ( by reading these following lines ) but this young lad may now engage ( without any peril ) any quaker in england in discourse . i likewise humbly entreat , that our brethren would use more diligence and pains in going up and down the dark countries , taking examples from these foxes , who with unwearied travel compass sea and land , spoiling the vines that have tender grapes , many a young lamb is torn by them . my brethren , let us be greatly encouraged in this instance , waiting upon the same spirit , in reducing others to the faith in the same manner : and let me engage you , night and day , to pray to christ for the poor town of hartford , which now for a long time hath a been a nest of error , where satan hath had his seat ; that now having begun to fall , he might fall as lightning from heaven . it 's matter of grief to us , ( as you kuow ) that many in the town , that made a fair shew once , have turned their backs upon us , and sunk into formality , discouraging of us all they can ; the lord give them repentance unto life . others the same in faith with us , through childishness , make a schism in smaller matters controversial : but most of all , that these seducers have caught so many simple hearts in their nets , and keep them in perfect popish slavery and bondage . o let your cry go up to heaven for them ! some of his elect peradventure may be among them ; my bowels , my bowels for that dark divided town of hartford . o cry and pray , that as he hath now in mercy built us a tabernacle there , the residue of the people might seek after the lord , and the quakers be undeceived . as for you , my brethren , let me exhort you to stedsastness in the faith you have received , and yet more zeal and boldness for the truth . we have to do with a very impudent enemy , yet remember and believe it ; stronger is he that is with us , than those that are against us . o let not those poor deluded ones , that have trod under-foot the blood of christ , and so left themselves no more sacrifice for sin to trust unto ; let them not out-strip you in their zeal they have , but not according to knowledg : and be you not afraid of them , tho you be but a very little flock , and they swarm as locusts about you : as high as heaven is above the earth , so far is that spirit of the faith of jesus in you , above the spirit of antichrist that is in them : and yet a little while , and christ shall bruise satan under your feet . amen . hold on your way , grow stronger and stronger , quit your selves like men , walk in wisdom , and in love ; keep the unity of the spirit ; abound yet more and more in all judgment and experience . jesus christ is amongst us ( as we all can witness ) in his institutions , that are so much despised by this dark people ; he walketh among the golden candlesticks . we see a glory in a crucified jesus , though they see no beauty or comeliness in him , for which they should desire him. we eat his flesh , and drink his blood ; he dwelleth in us , and we in him : we have both christ within and without , we have both word and spirit , and so we have the better of them that divide these . let us with one shoulder carry on christ's interest in that place , and christ will add to us such as shall be saved , and he will build us up , and finish that good work that he hath begun among us ; and he will throw all babels down to the ground , and not leave one stone upon another . there begins to be a confusion amongst them already ; wait a while , dagon will fall before the ark. i testify from the lord , having tried this people many a time , and in the light of the spirit of christ , to my utmost ( being willing to receive any truth from any hand ) that the quakers spirit is , a spirit of delusion , and their doctrine is antichristian , in diametrical opposition to the doctrine delivered by the apostles of jesus christ . i testify in the lord , and i have with me herein the concurrence of many ten thousand faithful ones in the land , that if ever satan transform'd himself into an angel of light , it is in this people , coming forth with such a fair pretence of strict mortisication and self-denial , speaking of light , spirit , and power ; therefore let all rake head and beware of them . o how dreadful to deny the manhood of christ , the holy scriptures ( save only what they think serves their turns ) to be saviours to themselves , to say , christ came and died in vain , and to no purpose , &c. which necessarily follows upon their doctrine . my soul weeps in secret to remember what a dumpish , dark , sowr , pharisaical , confused , slavish spirit we have found some in , whom they have lately caught , and yet withal infinitely proud and self conceited ; the lord have mercy upon them . i now recommend these following lines to you , keep them by you as a treasure ; they are rich spoils obtained in a spiritual warfare , and dedicated to you , a temple of the lord. in this you have the doctrines which i ( who am the least ) have been preaching to you , taught me by the holy ghost , through manifold tossings , trials , temptations , desertions , sadnesses , buffettings , wherewithal i have been exercised these fifteen years , the lord is my witness . and i am willing and ready ( through the grace of christ ) to seal them with my blood against all adversaries whatsoever . it comforts me that i can say , i have preached none other things than what is written by the prophets and apostles , and how pleasant ( as here you see ) when the spirit of truth in one , ecchoes to the spirit it self in another : it is the self-same spirit that worketh these things in us , and for us all , cor. . in this you have , . the spirituality of the law of god spoken of . . our weakness to keep the law. . god's insinite wisdom and goodness to provide a surety in our room . . christ's great love in undertaking . . man's great blindness by nature , cannot see this of himself . . his backwardness to receive this righteousness , till he be brought to utter distress , as the prodigal was . . his proneness to be his own saviour . . god's distinguishing love and grace , in enlightning his , and revealing truth to them by his spirit drawing of them . . the blessed fruits of faith ; viz. peace , and joy , and love to christ . . the ineffectualness of any other thing , but faith on christ to bring the soul to rest . . how the light within every one , and obedience thereunto , will not do it . . you may see herein the benefit of reading the holy scriptures . . you may see that the doctrine of free grace , is not a doctrine tending to licentiousness , but holiness . . yet it excludes all manner of works in the point of justification . . tho compleatness of justification , viz. from all sin. these , with more that might be enumerated . and now i will boldly say , the gates of hell , power and policy thereof , shall never prevail against these truths . notwithstanding the rage and subtilty of adversaries , we will say , tho an host encamp against the church , isa . . . the virgin daughter of zion hath despised thee , and laughed thee to scorn ; the daughter of jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee . i conclude with this , remember how you have heard and received , and hold fast , rev. . . john . read the , , , , , , and this is the th , let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the beginning : if that which ye have heard from the beginning remain in you , ye shall also continue in the son , and in the father . amen . i subscribe my self your servant , for jesus sake , will. haworth . the bookseller to the reader . there is a reply to an answer of the quakers to this tract : writ likewise by the same person . and if thou wouldst see farther into the errors of the quakers , read mr. faldo's two books , entituled , quakerism no christianity , &c. sold at the golden-lion in paul's church-yard . the quaker converted . god which appointeth unto man the bounds of his habitation , and dealeth with man as it pleaseth him , in bringing him to himself , deal with me in manner and form following . first , i was brought up to the publick worship that was in england at that time ; and as my parents were able i was put to school : and the lord did restrain me , that i did not break out into open sins , as many did . and being of age fitting , i went to be an apprentice in ignorance that my master was of that opinion , namely a quaker : my parents , after they had knowledg thereof , laboured that i might have the priviledg to go to the publick to worship , which priviledg i had for a time . but after the prayer-book was made use of there , i was permitted to go no more , which was a great trouble to me . after a considerable time i grew desirous to go to the quakers meeting , having heard much talk of them , and of the gifts their ministers had ; and whilst it was thus with me i was commanded to go : and i went several times , as other boys did , only this ; i was taken off from having delight in sports and pastims quickly after my going , and did refuse going to such delights when i might go . but being about sixteen years of age , as i remember , having some workings upon my spirit , it was set home upon me , that there was a god that would take vengeance on them that did not obey him , nor keep his commandments ; and that there was no escaping of this god ; and withal it would be my portion to fall under his wrath , if i continued as i was , for i had broken his commands , this presently followed , have i sinned ? i will do so no more ; and from that time i went on by degrees to keep my conscience void of offence , according to that light which i had : and at that time i was of that frame of spirit , that i was ready to assent to every thing the quakers did , whether i had ground for it or not . for when i had not a real perswasion that that thing which i did was sin , i had these reasonings in me , there are such and such men , that are mighty men in gifts , and of great fame , and very just men , and they do not do these things , therefore it is sin : and i was ready to go upon this ground . my parents also ( at such times as i was with them ) desired me to go to church with them , as i had done before , and i refused and would not go . soon after this there arose great suffering-times , after which it was ordered , that i went not frequently to the meetings , but to some few in which they spake ; not yielding to any thing i did believe was sin before god : and after a time being at a meeting with alexander parker , as i remember , he made use of these words , which i found upon my search in the thessal . . . prove all things , hold fast that which is good . knowing by the words he spake , that it was written in the scripture . and he did explain it in this manner , prove all religions , all sects , all opinions , and words to this purpose : but as for the way of proof i do not well remember . but there was this thing that was cast into my heart , that they that are of the same spirit with the servants of the lord which were in former times , must of necessity in all things agree with the scriptures ; whereupon i searched the scripture , comparing my condition with it : and as i grew up to understanding , by degrees i considered with my self that there was a jesus christ , which came to save sinners , and he was this light within , and by hearing their discourses , and by one means or other , and knowing that there was such a thing in me as did convince me of sin , and if i was obedient to it , i was delivered from sin , i did believe this was the christ . now the ends of his coming i did believe were to change me from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god , to bring me into his own image , to be free from sin : and by degrees as i was convinced of sin , i was obedient unto the light within , which did reprove me , and had power over sin , and i rejoiced in it , and counted my condition happy , and thought it would not be long before i was delivered from all my sin , and be brought into the image of christ . now to understand the frame of my spirit , i will insert one remarkable passage which i did when i was about nineteen or twenty years of age , which is this : i being sent to the shop for herrings , and had them delivered unto me ; i did dislike some of them , and being sent to the barrel alone to change some of them , i being a great lover of them , it arose in me what a brave opportunity i had to slip one into my pocket for my self , this was the temptation : on the other hand came the light reproving of me in this manner ; i must not do this thing ; why if it should be known , it would be a dishonour to my name , and i should be ashamed to look any body in the face ; and if it were not known to man , yet god would know it , and he would punish me if i sinn'd against him. through which means i did obey that which did reprove , and touched none but what was my due , and i went home rejoicing with my self in this manner , how happy was my condition now beyond what it had been if i had disobeyed the reproof ! and how good was the lord to me in calling to me , when i was tempted to do that evil ! oh , who would but love such a lord as this ! but little did i think at that time that i had sinned against god : so was i convinced of one evil one day , and was delivered from it , and another day another evil , and had power over it , and i had joy and peace in it . now there were some things which the quakers did , that i was not convinced of , and i was ashamed to be found in them , having no ground for them in my self , which things bred some trouble in me : yet all these things were retained in mine own breast ; for i made known my condition to no one , because i would not be perswaded to do any thing , but what i was fully perswaded of in my own heart . now about the time of my being free from my master , mr. haworth's coming to hartford , was ordered to be — and having heard of his boldness in what he did profess , which the quakers did commend him for , i was desirous to hear him ; and through a fellow-servant of mine , which had been there and told me the passages , the next day i went with him to hear ; but when i came away , i concluded i had heard a strange doctrine , and in a strange manner it was preached ; i cannot call to mind what it was , notwithstanding i went again , having this in my thoughts all along , that i would prove this way according as i had liberty , from that passage before-mentioned , and to return to them , which i did believe were the people of the lord : but i had some affection for his preaching , because he did open the scriptures , which i had a desire to know ; and he did preach often-times to convince of sin , and deliverance by faith in christ : but i did apprehend that he did mean , that light within me which did reprove me for sin , only he did not speak in so plain a manner as the quakers did ; but i thought he did it through ignorance , and was willing to bear with that , for i had better thoughts of him , than to preach a doctrine that leadeth to looseness ; having that apprehension of the doctrine of christ , making satisfaction for all my sins by his death at jerusalem : but as i went on i had many ups and downs concerning him , and my heart was many times in one place , and my body in another ; and had many such reasonings as these in me , saying , what , shall i stay any longer here ? when he spake that which my spirit could not relish ; and here are but few in this assembly that live as they ought to do . and if there cometh a time of persecution , most of them will be dispersed : but the quakers , they stand through all , as the apostles did , therefore they are the people of the lord. but on the other hand , i had such reasonings as these ; notwithstanding most of these are a loose and wanton people , and a proud people , which adorn their bodies more than their souls , and may be righteous if they will , if they would but obey the voice of the lord , which calleth to them in their inward parts . though this is not a rule for me to do as they , yet i will follow that which reproveth me for sin ; and i will see the bottom of their ways , that i may stand the more boldly against them in the time to come , having liberty from the place forementionened to prove all things : and he did preach many things which did agree with my spirit ; amongst the rest he fell upon these words , luke . . he shall baptize you with the holy ghost , and with fire : which word fire was a strange word to me ; but as he opened it , it was plain to me , that the spirit did operate after the manner of fire , which is by light and heat , which i shall speak a little of . first ; as to light : the spirit maketh known sin when it cometh , which was not seen before : as the shining of the sun through a crack into a dark room , we may behold every small dust within that compass ; so in this case it openeth dark mysteries unto us . and as to heat , as the fire softeneth the hard iron , so doth the spirit soften our hard hearts ; and as it bringeth or changeth iron into its own image , so doth the spirit change us into its image ; and as the wood is consumed , so doth it waste and consume our going on in sin ; and in like manner to purification , with several others ; which things i much liked , concluding , i had experienced these things upon my own spirit , and concluded he did speak in a more plain way than he had done before . from whence arose this reasoning in me , when he spake things which i could not apprehend ; it may be it is through my ignorance , because i do not see that which he seeth , though sometimes i was ready to set them down for false doctrines . and when i thought of going to the quakers , these things which i did not like among them kept me back , having not ground in my self for to do them ; of which silent-meetings was the chief , putting off my hat was another ; for when i met with one friend or other , if i saluted him with my hat , i knew not that i did offend god , any more than if i did it not , but yet i concluded , that though i could not agree with them in all things , yet i ought to be with them that would be faithful to the lord , and walk in his commandments ; these , with many more , after trial of this way . and as i went on , i met with a passage , ephes . . . foolish talking and jesting . and , mat. . . ye shall give an account for every idle word ; and the light in me assented to it , that i ought not to do so . and when i was reproved for it , i was obedient , and by obedience was delivered from such sins , from whence i became of sew words . and being lifted up in my spirit to see round me , how i should dispose of my self for the time to come , that i might be delivered from the snare of sin , then i beheld the actions between husband and wife in families , which are envy , strife , malice ; that if a father corrected his child , the mother was ready to be offended : and there was scarce one in an hundred which lived as he ought , therefore it was not good for me to be in that state. i beheld the actions between man and man in trading , and behold cozening , cheating , defrauding one another , and at the lowest many foolish idle words ; and it was not good for me to be in their condition . shall i continue as i am a servant ? but what is here ? discontent , masters will think servants may do more than they do , and blame them for that they cannot help , and anger will arise , therefore it is not good for me to be here . then i brake out in my spirit , would god it was my portion to live in a cave of the earth , and to have society with no man ; my food to be the fruit of the hedges , and the fowls of the air , the wild creatures of the earth , such as i could get ; my drink the water of the brooks , then should i be srce from all these things , not that i was entangled with any at that time ; and i think , as i was at that time , i could be contented with that state i was in . not long after i had this thought or suggestion in me , if it pleased god to take me out of the world at this very moment , i have not one sin to answer for : and i queried with my self how this came to pass ? and it was thus answered , that i being obedient to the light which worked in me , had fulfilled the whole will of god , having regard to that in jeremiah , and . i will put my law in their inward parts , and write them in their minds : and having fulfilled this law , i judged my condition happy , having joy , and peace , and comfort in my spirit as to god , judging my condition to agree with the scripture . about this time the person before-named grounded his discourse on isa . . and did run over the greatest part of that chapter ; but in the th verse , these words , let the wicked forsake his way , and the unrighteous man his thoughts . which thing did reach my condition , having had some struglings in my spirit concerning this thing ; for i thought that the motions in me to evil , were only the temptations of the devil . but having now found many places in scripture to this purpose , that they were sin : the places forenamed for one , mat. . , . & . . & . . & . , . rom. . . for we know that the law is spiritual ; which did convince me that the motions , the desires that arose in me to evil , were sin against god , though not consented to , because they did spring from my flesh . being convinced of this as a sin , i expected to be delivered from it , as i had been from other sins before ; but i found it otherwise , for it was with me then according to that passage in rom. . . when the commandment came , sin revived , and i died : for the more i looked upon it , the more i saw ; and the more i strove against it , the more did it work in me ; and i began to be in sore trouble , being taken in it many a time . but i considered with my self , hath not the lord promised to make us free from sin ? and is he not faithful ? will he not not perform ? yea , surely before i die , if i am obedient to him. but it was ordered by the providence of god , that i did bear in mind the words of the said mr. haworth , from john . . — and ye will not come unto me , that ye might have life . in the carrying on which discourse , he put forth several questions of this nature , thou that hast the riches of this world , couldst thou not relieve thy poor neighbours more than thou hast done ? and thou that hast sworn , mightest not thon have sworn fewer times than thou hast done ? and thou that hast kept evil company , mightest not thou have refrained from them more than thou hast done ? these , with several more . and i applied this to my self ; when i said the lord will make me free , if i am obedient to him , could i not be more obedient than i have been ? could i not think of other things to prevent those thoughts and desires arising in me ? and i was speechless as to that , but to heal up my self in this thing , i would be wiser , i would take better heed for the time to come ; but e're two or three days to an end , i was taken in the same desires again : yet did i comfort my self in this also , hoping that i should overcome it before i died , before my departure out of this life . but then it arose in me , when should the departure out of this life be ? and i had no ground for any thing , but that it might be the very next hour after i had broken the commandment of the lord. then did my burden become exceeding heavy , finding no deliverance ; then i down on my knees before the lord many a time in prayer to him , with sighs , and groans , and tears , beseeching him for power to withstand this evil that i was taken in so many times , but i found no deliverance nor power that was given me , though i prayed earnestly , and in several ways ; as in prayer learn'd by the letter , viz. the lord's prayer , mat. . and i prayed in or by the spirit , as i thought , and to christ in me , and to christ in the heavens , according to that god who silleth heaven and earth . thus for several weeks was i in this trouble , making my condition known to no one , because i would not be perswaded to any thing , but did wholly rely upon the inward instructions of the lord. thus did my hope perish , my burden increased , destruction was set before me ; seeing no deliverance any manner of way , so that i might say in some measure , the snares of death did compass me about , and the pains of hell took hold on my soul ; having nothing to say for my self , but the lord might justly punish me , because i could not say but i might have been more obedient than i had been . when i reflected upon my self , i might have thought of things to prevent those desires more than i had done ; and this dwelt with me , who knows but the lord had delivered me , if i had always thought to the utmost of my power on thoughts which were good , to prevent those evil desires in me ? after all this , when i was one and twenty years of age , and somewhat more , being alone bemoaning my condition , what would become of me ? the lord cast these words into my heart , christ died for me : and in the meditation of them , the lord gave me light into them , opening mine understanding to see that it was in my place , in my room , in my very stead , and set it before me by this thing ; suppose i was a murderer in this kingdom of england , and by the law condemned to death , and was carried to the place of execution , and was at the point of death ; and a friend unknown to me , of his own free will offered himself , being no way guilty of the fact , to die for me , to bear the penalty of the law in my room , his life went for my life , and i went free ? then was i as one afrighted , or in a maze , to behold the wonderful love of god ; and the change which was with my soul in a moment , in the turning of an hand , from sorrow to joy , from a burdened state to a free , from death to life , from hell to heaven , even in a moment ; saying in my spirit , who would but love such a lord as this ! but e're a quarter of an hour to an end , it was clouded again , for the devil had two cards yet to play , which were objections against the doctrine of christ making satisfaction for all my sins , both past , present , and to come ; and now he came with power to drive me into them ; they are these , loosness and despair . but first , upon the subject of loosness , rom. . . shall we continue in sin , that grace may abound ? for if i am justified by looking unto the sufferings of christ for all my sins , and to be saved thereby , then may i take my swing in sin , and go on in my course . to be satisfied in this , i betook my self to search the scriptures : if the servants of the lord in days past did so , and found that they did no such thing , but did always reprove for it , having much satisfaction from rom. . most eminent for this thing ; by which thing i was pretty easily turned from this thing , but in my search met with that passage , rom. . . whom god hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past . from whence i did apprehend that christ died for the remission of my sins which i had committed before he did manifest his love to me ; but afterwards i was to work for life and for salvation , and to keep all his commandments , or else hell would be my portion : and being taken in the same snare of sin as i was before , convictions grew strong upon me , my burthen grew heavy upon me , insomuch that i did say at length , christ was of no advantage , of no prosit to me ; if he had never died , it had been as well with me . under which troubles i was a great while , until the lord gave me light into two scriptures , which did in some measure relieve me , which are these , rom. . . that , if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and shalt believe in thy heart that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . heb. . . for by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified ; and being able to see a sanctification by being justified by the death of christ , and viewing the word [ ever ] i had much relief , yet was i not at quiet , having not settlement of spirit , but had reasonings lay in the bottom of my heart in this manner , if i might not go on in sin , and when i did not go on in sin , my works did not make any thing for my justification , for i was justified without them , then what use were they for , or for what end ? and the lord gave me light into four things which did greatly settle me , which are these ; first , it was for the glory of god in my generation , and for the honour and praise of his name , which hath begotten a lively hope in me , through jesus christ . secondly , to manifest my love to jesus christ , which gave his life a ransom for me ; for how should i make it appear that i love him , but by keeping his commandments ? thirdly , to convince the world of sin , by my refraining from that which is evil . fourthly , it is my duty , as i am a son to god in jesus christ , to keep his commandments , and to obey and do his will : from whence i had settlement in my spirit , having joy and peace with god through jesus christ ; seeing a beauty in death now more than in life often-times , because then i should be freed from the corruption of my flesh , and be at rest with the lord. it being near eighteen months since i had the view of the love of god in jesus christ : after which time i was desirous to have some discourse with some that i judged honest men , that i might see whether there was a difference between them and me , and accordingly had , retaining to my self most part of my experiences : after which i returned for the most part to my former life , keeping little company , yet aiming to grow in the knowledg of the mysteries of god in jesus christ . having after this manner been carried on by the will of god , having known two faiths , two joys , two peaces , and two sorts of hope , perhaps it may be thought requisite to speak something as touching the difference between them ; for satisfaction therefore i will insert some few things by way of question and answer . quest . was that light by which i was convinced of sin , and by obedience thereunto thought i should be brought into the image of christ , and in that righteousness be accepted with god , and delivered from the wrath to come , was it the light of the spirit of christ , yea or nay ? answ . nay ; if i may judg of the tree by the fruit. quest . what light is it then ? answ . the same with that which the heathens had by nature sixteen hundred years since , mentioned rom. . . quest . how know i that , since they lived so many years before my time ? answ . because it chiesty pointed unto the same things which are recorded that they did , namely the things contained in the law. quest . what things did i see , or what things did i apprehend by that light , which now i see are false things ? answ . three things i shall name at the present ; first , i did apprehend by the light within , that the motions , the desires which arose in me to evil were no sin , if i did not consent to act according to them . secondly , that the doctrine of christ making satisfaction for all my sins , was a doctrine tending to loosness . thirdly , i thought by the righteousness in which i lived , wrought in me by the light which i thought was christ himself , i then judged i should be saved at the day of judgment . quest . what do i now apprehend by the light of the spirit , which is now in me , as concerning the first of these three ? answ . i apprehend that every motion and desire arising in me to evil , tho not consented to , nor put into action , is a sin against god ; because it doth spring from the corruption of mine own flesh , and from the root of bitterness dwelling in this body ; wherefore if this body be mine , then is that which dwelleth in it mine . quest . what do i apprehend concerning the second ? answ . to this i say , far be it from me that i should say , that christ being offered once for all , should be a thing tending to looseness , having found by experience , faith in this doctrine is the only spring from whence true christian-works do flow . for so soon as ever the lord gave me light into that doctrine , and seeing a glorious view of christ , that very moment was my soul drawn out in love to serve the lord , and to keep his commandments : from whence my faith is , that whoever counteth it a doctrine tending to that purpose , they never truly knew the want of a saviour : for how irrational a thing would it be , if i was a slave in turkey , or in some other barbarous nation , out of which servile work i could by no means nor art deliver my self ; and in the midst of my bondage a nobleman of mine own countrey , of his own free and voluntary will ransom'd me home , would it not engage my soul to love the man that redeemed me out of bondage ? much more being delivered by faith out of bondage and slavery from the devil . and how should we manifest our love to christ , but by keeping his commandments ? quest . what do i apprehend as to the third thing ? answ . if i had never known another righteousness than that which i attained unto , or could attain unto by that light and power which worked in me before conversion , i must have expected my portion in the lake of fire and brimstone , to be tormented day and night for ever : for in the greatest of my purity , and the highest degree of perfection , there were lingering desires to evil that dwelt in me , which would have led me to evil ; which desires i could not be delivered from any manner of way , which was the cause of my grief and sorrow some considerable time , until the lord opened mine eyes , and shewed me salvation by a person wholly without me , which person is jesus christ , whose righteousness being imputed unto me , and accounted as mine own , that righteousness being every way compleat , he having fulfilled the law of god in every respect , by submitting unto this , and accepting of this as my own , i had peace of conscience , which no otherways i could attain to . now by the light which every man hath , saw i no beauty in this ; but by a light which every man hath not , did i see a beauty in this : from whence i may conclude what that light which every man hath is , for every man in reason seeth not a beauty in this righteousness . quest . had i not joy , and peace , and quietness in my spirit when i was obedient to that light in me , which reproved me for sin ? and doth not the scripture say , the kingdom of god is righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost ? wherein do they differ then ? answ . i had a joy , and a peace , and a comfort in both states ; but the joy of the first was not so great as the joy of the second : for as israel was in egypt under hard tasks , exod. . and so long as they fulfilled their tasks , doubtless they had joy , and peace , and quiet ; which when they did not fulfil , they were beaten : but doubtless they had more joy and peace when they were brought into canaan , where the tasks were not laid upon them . so was it with me ; so long as i did obey that which did reprove me for sin , i had peace and quiet , judging my condition happy : but i found a greater joy and peace , when i saw salvation by the righteousness of christ without me , being a more compleat and surer righteousness than that wrought in me ; being hereby delivered from fear of miscarriages , to the loss of my salvation . quest . was there not a power when i obeyed the light , reproving me for sin , which did deliver me from sinning , and gave me strength to do that which was good , and right , and just before god and man , and would carry me through sufferings for it , with peace and comfort , if i submitted unto it , according to that passage , to as many as received him , to them gave he power to become the sons of god ? answ . yes , there was a power which did deliver me from sinning outwardly , or doing any thing to wrong my neighbour , or telling lies , but choosed rather to suffer anger than to do it : whereas if i had lied , i might have been free from it , it bore me up when i was hissed at for what i did to my face , saying , these are the things which i must look for , it was the portion of christ when he walked upon the earth , and i must not wonder at it , the scriptuee saith it , for it is enough for a servant to be equal with his lord : but notwithstanding i met with a time when i could not have peace of conscience by that power within me , but by the powerful work of god without me , in preparing a body which was perfectly holy to die for me , to bear my sins in my place , in my room , to free me from the curse of the law , imputing his righteousness unto me ; to as many as receive this , gave he power to become the sons of god , heing manifest to me in the spirit at that time i mentioned before , working faith in me ; which faith engageth to serve the lord : by this faith i had peace of conscience ; this was the power of god unto salvation to my soul according as it is written , the preaching of the cross is to them that perish , foolishness ; but to them which are saved , it is the power of god. cor. . . quest . do i despise that light , knowledg , or conscience which reproveth man for sin in him , and judg it not to be obeyed ? answ , no ; i believe it is the duty of every one to walk in the commandments of the law of god , and to keep a conscience void of offence , according as it is written , holding faith in a pure conscience ; hoping to be found in the same my self . quest . for what ends do i desire to be found in obedience to this light ? answ . because it is my duty to god ; not for life , but from a principle of life ; not for salvation , but because i have salvation through faith in christ ; not that my peace might be made , but because my peace is made already , not that i might get into the love of god , but because i am in the love of god through faith in christ , who gave himself a ransom to redeem me from the curse of the law , he being made a curse for me . friends , to whom these few lines may be presented , written by the hand of him who is weak in knowledg , and of low degree , having done this at the request of my worthy friends , who thought it might be of use to those which might be in the like trouble as i have been . after the viewing of this , many censures do i expect : perhaps it may be said by most , i was no such person as i have here exprest my self to be ; which if it be , i matter not : god knoweth the things i have been led through , my conscience also bearing me witness to the things i have written , and therefore leave it to the souls in christ to judg . perhaps it may be further said of me , that i have written some things herein out of envy and malice . to which i answer , i have not written any thing herein out of envy or malice ; but for the relief of those that are in trouble , if the lord please to make it instrumental by his spirit for that end . perhaps it may be said , i could not attain to joy , and peace , and comfort by obedience to the light reproving me for sin , seeing i walked not in all things as the quakers did . to which i answer , i have seen one of them do that which another of them had not freedom to do ; yet i believe he that did it had peace in what he did , because he saw no evil in it ; why might not i have peace and joy in my spirit , though i did not walk in every point as they did , seeing i did that which i believed was good in the sight of god , when i durst not do that which some of them did ? perhaps it may be said , this is nothing but an invented story of mine own , having picked up bere and there a word by head-knowledg , seeing i was not in open profession with them which expect salvation by obedience to the light in them . to which i say , though i was not in open profession with them , yet was i of the same faith , and fought my salvation the same way . and as to taking hold of words , or inventing stories , i leave it to those indued with the spirit of god to judg , whether it be in the power of man to place aright such things as i have spoken , without experience of these things ; though i might speak other things as concerning my judgment both then and present , which was not by the perswasion of any one , as may appear by what i have said before : who once wondered why the law written by moses was retained , seeing there was another law given since him by jesus christ , whose law i was to obey . but i thought it was retained for a memorial of what was in days past , as though that law given by moses did differ from the law of jesus : but if there be another law by christ , it is the law of faith , and not of works , which is the moral law. for if christ made a difference , it was in the ceremonial law , which was then in type and figure , but now in substance : for our high-priest is not entered into the holy place made with hands , but into heaven it self ; not with the blood of bulls or goats , but with his own blood , because he gave himself an offering and a sacrifice to god , and he bare our sins upon his body on the tree , by the which we have peace with god : but as to the moral law , or the law of works , i do not know any change in that , though i once thought there was from that of matth. . where he faith , ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time : but i say unto you , as concerning the oath and other things there mentioned , where he interprets the law : for he faith , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil the law. neither do i find in those places , where he speaketh of putting his law in their inward parts , that he doth mention another law , or a part of that which then was : but the law is of the same length and breadth that it was , and doth require as great a righteousness to be saved thereby , as ever it did to them which expect to be saved and accepted with god by works : then how much doth it concern them which look for salvation by a righteousness in which they live ; seeing the scripture faith , he that is in christ , ought himself to walk even as he walked ? joh. . . now how did christ walk ? christ so walked , that he fulfilled the law of god , thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart , with all thy soul , and with all thy strength , and thy neighbour as thy self . he was the just one which was offered for the unjust , in whose mouth was found not guile , which in himself knew no sin ; for he did that which was pleasing in the sight of god always , at all times , joh. . . cor. . . but it may fall out , these few lines may be presented to the hands of some one or other , which in their hearts may say , as i once said , i have done the will of the lord , and i have kept all his commandments ; and if the lord should take me out of this world , i have no sin to answer for , but my condition is good , i need not to fear . for the trial of which , i shall repeat the things by which the lord wounded me , with some additions : but first remember these two things ; first , the lord seeth not as man seeth ; for man looketh upon the outward appearance , but the lord looketh on the heart ; for the lord doth require the heart , in what he hath commanded man to be found in , sam. . . prov. . . secondly , all things are open to him , and he knoweth the heart , and every thought and desire thereof , and there is nothing hid from his eyes , joh. . . luke . . psal . . . heb. . . now to the things by which i was wounded , thou may'st remember the law is , thou shalt love the lord thy god , and thy neighbour as thy self ; under which is comprehended these words , do unto all men as thou wouldst be done unto . now ask thy self , wouldst thou have thy neighbour speak an evil word of thee ? which i believe thou wouldst not ; then thou must not speak an evil word of thy neighbour . wouldst thou not that an evil thought should arise in him concerning thee ? then thou and i ought to do the same to him . if thou hast done a thing that proveth an injury , or a wrong to any man unawares , wouldst thou in thine heart he should say , nay , have such a thought in him , that thou didst it on purpose , out of envy , or malice , or some spite towards thee , to do thee a mischief ? see that thou do the same to him ; or this will follow , cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them . again , it is said , love your enemies , do good to them that hate you , &c. which must be out of a pure heart , for the lord looketh thereupon . now ask thy self , o man , art thou of the same frame of spirit to him that is thine enemy , as thou art to him that is thy bosom friend ? art thou of the same temper , affections , coldness in thy spirit at all times , to him as thou art to thy friend ? if he wrongeth thee , is there not something in thee , in thy heart , that would avenge thy self of this man ? doth it not say in this language , he had as good have held his tongue , or he had as good not have done this thing , or that other thing , for i will do him as good a kindness another time ? if he had done wrong to thee , or some evil thing , dost not thou declare it abroad , to make him odious or hateful , and to be a wicked person in the eyes of all ? or is it not in thy heart at sometimes thus to do by him ? tit. . , , . if he be one that hath stood as an open enemy against thee , or one that thou hast received some damage or wrong by , though thou durst not avenge thy self of him , yet hast not thou rejoiced in thy heart , and did it not make thy heart glad , and didst not thou clap thy hands as it were , when some evil hath befaln him , or some other hath taken vengeance ? if thou hast , is not this to take pleasure in them that commit wickedness , rom. . ? and is this to do unto man as thou wouldst be done unto ? and the lord will not let such sins go unpunished , ezek. . . then this will follow , cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them . it is further written , matth. . thou shalt not commit adultery ; but he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her , hath committed adultery with her in his heart , and so of all other evils : and dost thou never look upon a woman , having this arising in thee , saying , would i might have my pleasure , my hearts delight with this comely person ? also it is farther said , thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbours . now dost thou at no time say in thine heart , or have such things arise in thee , saying , would such / pg a man's house or lands were mine ? or , is he in a fair trade ? dost not thou desire or wish in thy heart , that thou couldst get into his trade ? or , doth he live bravely in the world ? dost not thou desire his trade , that thou mightest live as he ? or , art not thou ready to envy him , because thou canst not do as he doth ? if there be any such things as these , it is not right in the sight of god , hebr. . . tim. . . art thou a servant , art thou at all times content in thy heart with thy wages ? doth not something arise in thee to the contrary , luke . ? if there be any such things , though they are not known to man , yet god knoweth them all , and they are enough to bring man under the curse . now all these things ought to be done at all times , deut. . . for christ did that which pleased god always . after all these , and hundreds more that might be reckoned up , if thou canst say thou dost them , it will be required , whether thou dost them all purely out of love ; for whatever is done , if it be not in love to god it availeth not . now if thou keep the commandments of the lord , and walk in his holy statutes , that thou mightest get into his love and favour , and that thy peace might be made thereby , and that thou mightest be free from condemnation , hell , death , and eternal torment ; i cannot judg it to be purely of love , as though thou waft free from fear of the wrath of god to all eternity : for suppose two men in this nation should commit treason , ye know the law is death ; but the king thereof being merciful , pardoneth the first for ever , and solemnly engageth never to punish him according to the law , in token of which he maketh him his chamberlain , or other officer , promoting him to honour ? unto the second he faith , i will forgive thee also : if thou for the time to come hearken to me , and keep all my statutes , thou shalt be advanced to the like honour ; but if thou walk in disobedience to my will , i will assuredly cut thee off . whether of these two , judg ye , serveth the king purely in love ? so is it in this case : if thou dost walk in the commands of god , that you mightest be delivered from the wrath to come , it is a slavish thing ; out of this number did the lord find arrows to wound me with . i had several objections , which perhaps may be in the spirits of some . i will name some , and answer them as i am able . object . . if i do walk in all things which the lord hath made known unto me , is it not enough ? will the lord punish me for that which i do in ignorance ? answ . art thou ignorant ? may not i bring thee into the number of those that are willfully ignorant , or willingly ignorant , seeing the scripture faith , the knowledg of sin is by the law ? rom. . . & . . wherefore , had it thou searched the law , and enquired into the mind and will of god to the utmost of thy power , mightst not thou have attained to more knowledg than thou hast done in the law of god ? but if thou art ignorant , thy ignorance will not excuse thee . for the lord did institute an offering for sin committed in ignorance , which declares he required satisfaction to be made for all sin , if committed in ignorance . also he that knew not the will of his lord , and did things worthy of stripes , is not to be freed , lev. . , . luk. . . sometimes i have had this objection , but am satisfied as followeth . object . . there are temptations arising in me to evil ; but christ was tempted , and was it not so with him ? had not he these arising in him ? answ . no. if those temptations do proceed from the lust of the flesh , which the scripture mentions , jam. . . rom. . . then had he none ; for he was in the form of god , thought it not robbery to be equal with god : seeing he was the son of god , he was his righteous servant , the man , his fellow ; he was holy , undefiled , knowing no sin ; therefore he had no sinful nature ; then was there no temptations , no inclinations , no desire to evil in him proceeding from from his flesh . col. . . isa . . . zech. . . cor. . . luke . . but if you say , these temptations and inclinations proceed from the devil ; then had he none , for he saith , joh. . . the prince of this world cometh , and bath nothing in me . if then he had nothing in him , then he had not so much as a place to stir up evil motions , or evil desires in him : for when he was tempted , the devil spake to him with a voice , as i conceive , from those passages which say , he said unto him , mat. . luk. . which i do not remember is mentioned on that accompt , but in gen. . to them in paradise . object . . but this is a third , which lodged long with me , the lord hath commanded man to walk in his law , to love the lord his god with all his heart , soul , and strength , and his neighbour as himself ; and if it be not attainable , wherefore did the lord command it . answ . in these things have i found the law to be of use . . by it i was convinced of sin spiritual . . and saw the height and strictness of the righteousness which the lord did require for salvation . . my failings and inability to keep this righteousness . . to humble me , and lay me at the feet of god for mercy . . that my proud spirit might submit unto the righteousness of a person acted without me , which before would not . . the commands of god to holiness were of use to me , when i was stirred up to ranting , to turn the grace of god into wantonness ; and sin , that grace might abound . . also when i was falling into despair of the grace of god ( saying ) christ died for the remission of sins committed before he manifested his love to me ; but afterwards i must work for life and salvation , keep all the commandments of the lord , or else damnation will be my portion . then it was of use to me to turn me , or drive me to the grace of god ; because i saw i could not come up to the height of those commands . . and is of use to me to this day , when i consider the height and the depth , the length and the breadth of the law of our god , to cause me to prize the glorious gospel of jesus christ , in which is justification , sanctification , redemption : to include all , sure salvation , being lifted up through faith in christ , above the law and the power of works , death and hell ; that from henceforth we should serve him without fear , to the praise of his holy name for ever . amen . having thus run over the heads of these things , it pleased the lord i should be hamper'd in , and according to the knowledg he hath given me , i have laid them down , if happily they might be of use to others ; not as though i were able to contend and answer all objections that my adversaries may raise against me , having had but a little time in these things . and though i am compassed about with troubles , yet will i call upon the lord for strength to stand up under them : for in my infancy in christ , great was my trouble , yet did the lord bear me up , and deliver me which giveth me ground to believe , he will yet stand by me , and strengthen me , and preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom . many more things might i reckon up , but in those may be seen these two things . first , the backwardness of man ; the unwillingness of this spirit to come unto christ , and submit to his righteousness . secondly , being come to see this life and salvation by the death of christ alone , how ready is man to for sake it and join something with it , some works , some duties , some-thing which pleaseth man , and eclipses the glory of christ , then all is well enough : unto this i might reckon up many things ; but this i say , the light of the gospel to me , for many months , was as the light of a gloworm by the way-side , a small thing ready to be passed by ; or as a by-way , in comparison of the chief road to the great city , the heavenly jerusalem : it was so much against reason , being without the works of the law ; the way of the gospel is as an unbeaten path , the lord knows people walk not by troops in it : for the gospel is too glorious for man's reason to comprehend : therefore the law is embraced , and errours do flow as water from a spring ; but forget not this , that by the will of god ye are sanctified , through the offering of the body of jesus once for all ; he is our righteousness , our peace , our all , we are compleat in him , perfected for ever through faith without the deeds of the law , this will stand when all the rotten righteousness of man shall fall : therefore unto the king everlasting , and only wise god , be glory , honour , and praise for ever and ever . w. d. finis . nevv lords, nevv lavvs, or, a discovery of a grand usurpation, in opposition to the holy laws of god and contempt of the good laws, and royal prerogative of the supream magistrate, as it hath been lately practised by the lordly matthew caffin, a pretended true apostle of our blessed lord and saviour, and ruling head of his congregation, usually meeting at southwater near horsham in sussex. by r. h. haines, richard, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) nevv lords, nevv lavvs, or, a discovery of a grand usurpation, in opposition to the holy laws of god and contempt of the good laws, and royal prerogative of the supream magistrate, as it hath been lately practised by the lordly matthew caffin, a pretended true apostle of our blessed lord and saviour, and ruling head of his congregation, usually meeting at southwater near horsham in sussex. by r. h. haines, richard, - . [ ], , [ ] p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year . r.h. = richard haines. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng caffyn, matthew, - -- early works to . society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion nevv lords , nevv lavvs ▪ or , a discovery of a grand usurpation in opposition to the holy laws of god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the good laws , and royal prerogative 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supream magistrate , as it hath been lately practised by the lordly matthew caffin , a pretended true apostle of our blessed lord and saviour , and ruling head of his congregation , usually meeting at southwater near horsham in sussex . by r. h. submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , whether it be 〈◊〉 the king as supream , or unto governours , as unto them that are sent by him , for the punishment of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doers , and for the praise of them that do well . as free , and not using your liberty as a cloak of maliciousness , but as the se●●●●…of god. honour all men , love the brother-hood . fear god. honour the king , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . v. . . . and . london , printed in the year . the author to the reader . christian reader , having certain knowledge of the many scandals and abuses cast upon those who are the faithful professors of the ways of truth , i should be most heartily sorry to give any just occasion of encreasing the same ; yet do believe it my duty to do my part for the defence and vindication of the innocent . and conceivng my self ( as will appear by the following discourse ) to have received no small injustice , from a pretended apostle of our blessed lord and saviour , ( by name , matthew caffin , ) though his acts of vsurpation , tyranny , and partiality have in part already made manifest to the world , that he is far otherwise ; and for that his ( and his deluded confederates ) tyrannical dealing with me by way of excommunication , was for my doing a thing which is so far from being any transgression of any known law , that both the law of god , and the law and royal prerogative of the supream magistrate of this nation , and ( as i am informed ) all neighbour kingdoms , do allow of and justifie the same . i therefore think it my duty to publish to the world his usurped authority , his new laws , strange prerogative , and acts of injustice ; all which are to my certain knowledge utterly disowned by all the officers of the baptized congregations , both in country and city , that i have as yet had the opportunity to treat with , those only that are under this pretended apostles ; awful wings , excepted . all which i am not only induced , but constrained to publish for th●se reasons following . first , because it doth appear to me and others , that the authority by which he and his consederates have executed such his new laws and inventions , is an usurped authority ; and therefore the timely publication of the matter is to prevent the like errors from creeping into the church of christ , as heretofore have done , being brought in by such lordly spirits , whereby the church of rome , once the spouse of christ , is apostatized , and become an harlot , ( as he the said matthew caffin hath said ) on which account i conceive it my duty by this means to do my part in order to the suppressing this growing and dangerous distemper , which otherwise , like a gangrene , may destroy the whole body . secondly , that the truth and honest professors thereof may be preserved from those reproachful abuses and censures , which by this means are apt to be cast upon them , that so the burthen may be laid on the right shoulder , and a whole profession not be condemned for the proud extravagancies of 〈◊〉 or some few more particular men ; for so it is that some ( otherwise judicious and sober ) persons hearing of such strange carriage , daily say , that these professors are a crooked and perverse generation , running into a thousand errors , that their pretence of holiness is but deceit to cover a design of mischief . and some persons of good quality and repute ( no enemies to the truth or its professors ) have by this means been provoked to entertain hard thoughts , and open their mouths against them , to say both in words and writing , that we are of dangerous opinions , accompanied with rancour and malice against all that will not go along with us , be it right or wrong . for ( say they ) we can expect no better fruit from them , then what you have had from your saint , ( meaning the lordly apostle aforesaid ) all which and much more of that nature doth abound to the great dishonour of the gospel , and the professors thereof , wholly upon the account of this busie-body . the third reason for publication hereof is , because all other admonition and advice which was publickly given him in full meeting by several church officers of known integrity , ( to wit ) mr. g. mr. w. mr. p. mr. c. and mr. t. and divers others the most , or however the most eminent in london , was and still is wholly slighted , and could no way incline his mind to humility , but he still goes on to justifie his practise of tyranny , notwithstanding this meeting was singly for the hearing and determining of his case only . fourthly , because i would thereby have the world to know , that i know not one professor in the way of the baptized congregations to be of the like quarrelsome and dangerous principle , unless it be those who are at his own dispose , or in servise subjection to his own laws as aforesaid . and now impartial reader ! this one thing i humbly beg of thee , and i pray deny me not , viz. that thou wouldst not by means of any thing contained in the ensuing discourse accuse or condemn the innocent with the guilty , nor the peaceable , loyal and obedient , with the peace-breaker , contentious , and disobedient . for although it may appear in thy judgment that we are both unworthy , yea , although i my self through the instigation of the devil should become an adversary to all good ( for i dare not hoast of my future perseverance , though i can through mercy say , i have more than a little confidence ) notwithstanding , i say , thy worst imaginable should happen , yet be intreated i pray , ever to love and ●●ver to be offended with the honest ; godly , and peaceable 〈…〉 walk in the ways of truth ; which according to the holy 〈…〉 the royal road and kings high-way to life and glory , which profession ( i hope i may say ) i never in all my life did yet despise . and ( if i know my heart ) i had rather a thousand times suffer the ●●proaches and censures of him who now through malice and a lying tongue may abuse me at his pleasure , than that the way to glory , and those that humbly and devoutly walk therein , should be corrupted , abused , and evil spoken of . and this i pray further take notice of , that i do declare , that the publication of the ensuing matter to the world in this manner , was wholly contrary to my own will and desire , neither had i so much as the laise thoughts of so doing , had not they , to wit , mr. caffin or his confederates , first published my excommunication to the world , and particularly to such as they had reason to believe did hate me most , and this they did within less than three days . the consideration of all which , together with the effects that did every day attend it , to the great dishonour of the truth , did after some time upon just grounds engage me to publish the matter and manner of their proceeding against me , and accordingly i did make preparation for it , and that long before the publication hereof ; but if it demanded why i did not publish it sooner , i faithfully and sincerely can answer , my reason was this , viz. because i greatly feared that by this means , not only the offenders would be ill thought of , as justly they may , but that the way of truth it self , and honest professors might happen to be censured by some inconsiderate people , and evil reported of , to the dishonour of god , and prejudice or discouragement of the innocent . wherefore i did rather resolve to use all fair and safe means to prevent these ill effects , and bring the matter to be heard , determined and composed without such publication . to which purpose , i read part of what i had written to a person pretending much kindness to me , who i well knew did intend also to serve my causeless adversary to his power , yet 〈…〉 thought he ha●h been such 〈◊〉 one as 〈◊〉 he 〈◊〉 〈…〉 person after i had so shewed him the substance of what i 〈…〉 for publick view , did intent me to forbear ; to which 〈…〉 consented , upon condition i might have the matter heard by 〈◊〉 london friends , that had power to do justice , and did promise that 〈…〉 were done , i would totally desist , 〈…〉 ways . this my 〈◊〉 being made , he 〈…〉 perswade me to 〈◊〉 it to some 〈…〉 congregation , by which means the matter might be com 〈…〉 but i considering that all or most of the congregations 〈…〉 respects inferior to him , and he much adored and e 〈…〉 them did 〈◊〉 refuse so to do , whereupon he ac 〈…〉 undertook to perswade mr. c. ( and other 〈…〉 london . 〈…〉 did i apply my self to an elder ( with whom only i had a little 〈…〉 ) for his advice , and he appointed both time and place , and also did speale to several church officers to be there , because my self had little 〈◊〉 acquaintance with any of then . this is that elder that first advised me to a appeal to the general assembly , and thought it no unfit that such of the nation , as i thought meet , might be present at the heating of the cause , notwithstanding they were not in fellowship . however at this meeting the matter on m. caffins said was generally disliked of and he admonished by the persons aforesaid ( to wit ) mr. g. mr. w. mr. 〈◊〉 mr. t. mr. c. and divers others there present , to go home and call 〈…〉 together , and reform the matter . accordingly home they 〈…〉 me , but when i came home , which was about six days after , 〈◊〉 general reports went contrary to my expectation , some relating they 〈◊〉 justified in what they had done ; but that being opposed as a 〈◊〉 by one that heard the matter debated ; then one of them , ( to wit ) the same that would have a man damned for displeasing their lord c. rather then for offending the most high , as you may see in the ensuing treat se ; replyed that they were not to regard what our london friends did ; for said he , vve not own them . which indeed pr●●es to be very true , for all their grave and pious council and advice for peace and reconiliation was rejected and contemned ; and since that time their pretended apostle , mr. c. hath also declared in the assambly of his congregation , the same thing , saying , as for those london friends ( meaning those who gave him such admorition before named ) we do not own them . and this was the end of my first proposal , and willing endeavours in order to prevent this publication , and the ill effects if any should attend it . yet notwithstanding their obstinate persisting in their illegal practice without any 〈◊〉 , president , on example , for their authority i still resolved to wait , hoping in time their eyes might be opened and 〈◊〉 minds incline to repentance . but when after a long and 〈…〉 ctation , i perceived no appearance , or probable hope of their 〈…〉 mation , i then again began to think of publishing the matter 〈…〉 still feared my so doing might tend to their greater confusion &c. 〈…〉 whereupon i again said it by , with resolution to make my appe●●● the next general assembly of church officers at london , in hope some good might be done by them , and accordingly i made my pre●●● friends acquainted therewith , and not only by word of mouth 〈…〉 ral of the confederates , whom i desired to be there , to 〈…〉 mony to the truth of what they knew , but also by a 〈…〉 their publick meeting , and desired the messenger ( 〈…〉 of that congregation ) to deliver , and desire m. c. to 〈…〉 gregation , but althought it were delivered into his 〈…〉 that he the said m.c. not only promised at other times , that he 〈◊〉 by no means prevent the matter from being heard , but also said he 〈◊〉 do what he could to have it determined there , yet when the time came and the church officers assembled together , i appearing amongst them with several persons that were my witnesses , matthew caffin himself moved the matter , saying , that there was present a certain person that had been dealt withall in the country that did make his appeal to them ; and sail he , i perceive he is resolv'd to move the cause to you , and therefore you were as good hear what he hath to say now , or to that effect . whereupon i ( who had been before made to doubt by m. c. and other , that my cause could not be heard in this assembly , because of an agreement they had made , not to hear any there , before it had been heard by some neighbour congregation ) first desired to know whether they would intermeddle in such case , and determine a matter in controversie between a congregation and a single person , whereto it was forthwith replyed by mr. m. we can chuse out a party , six or more persons , and refer the matter to them , who may determine it presently before we part , or to that effect . then said i , — i am ready for it ; but then matthew caffin ( how agreeably to his former promises and pretences , let sincerity judge ) interposed , saying , but the matter concerns the congregation , and they are not he●e , and therefore it cannot . be heard now , which was seconded by one of his assistants , and so the matter put off . the consideration of this acting so palpably contrary to such promise , that he would no ways hinder the matter from being heard , but do what he could that it might be here determined , puts me in mind of that cardinal of whom it is reported , he should declare , that an honest man ought not to be a slave to his word , and might make a stranger apt to imagine this high pretender endued with such cardinal policies , 〈…〉 with the honesty of a true apostle ; for nothing imaginable 〈…〉 and design to 〈◊〉 the heating by that excuse , did hinder 〈…〉 having his party there , without whom he well knew ( as is evi 〈…〉 hand , that it could not be done ; and though he did do 〈◊〉 was not ●o civilly honest as to let me know thereof , that so i might 〈…〉 and unnecessary charge , which he knew would be consi●●●able , 〈◊〉 the consideration of all which , and for that all means of reconcili 〈…〉 said m. c. and his associates contemned , and their ill , 〈…〉 acts practised and defended by pretended au 〈…〉 but now at last conclude it highly my duty to make 〈…〉 that so those who are concerned , may at their next 〈…〉 i do appeal by these presents , take it into 〈…〉 consideration and doing right , may clear themselves and the profession in general from the imputation of such mischievous errors ; whereunto otherwise they may be thought accessary , leaving it to them to judge whether this pretended apostle be not an usurper ; and whether his government be not arbitrary , tyrannical and dangerous , both to the church and civil state ; and also whether he be not a partial and unjust judge , a deluder and seducer of those who otherwise would he innocent , and a contemner of the authority of all that are above him . lastly , whereas some sober persons think it strange that i do not withdraw my self from the baptized congregations ; my answer is , that i know not any other congregation of that perswasion corrupted with any of those errors , but that their actions and conversations are according to their profession in the judgment of charity . and forasmuch as i do upon safe and scripture grounds , believe , that the way they prosess is the way to grace and glory , i therefore dare not desert it , but desire to be found persevering therein with heart and affection . and that all good people may do the same , is the hearty prayer of him who is , a lover of truth , righteousness and peace , and of those who imbrace the same , under what notion or form soever they be , richard haines . a word to the ingenious and learned perusers . honoured sirs , since neither nature nor education have furnisht me with those 〈◊〉 and accomplishments which i must acknowledge necessary to all such as expose their writings to the publick eye ; let me intreat , and not be denyed your favourable construction in the ensuing leaves , as often as you find me unskilfull in language or methodical order ; for as i have never been exercised in such publick endeavours , so should i not now have appeared to the world in this manner , had not the conscience of my duty constrained me therèunto ; nor had i been thus tedious and burthensome to the reader , but out of a desire to regain my poor deluded brethren , who pretend great love unto your humble servant , r. h. nevv lords , nevv lavvs . & . having some time since received much injustice and abuse from matthew caffin , a pretended apostle of christ , and elder of a congregation ; together with some other of his deluded confederates , who without any authority or example , and for a matter not proved to be any sin or crime by any text of holy scripture , procecded to pass sentence of excommunication against me , and still persist in and justify the same , and endeavours yet further to render me infamous . it is therefore the design of the following discourse ( for the several causes and reasons mentioned in the epistle to the reader ) to make a full discovery of all proceedings in that affair , that so innocence may be cleared , friends at a distance truly informed , and these lordly spirits , if possible , made ashamed of , and so repent for such their wicked and erronious courses , all which i shall endeavour , by relating plainly and sincerely . first , the cause or pretended crime objected . secondly , the most partial unjust , and cruel proceedings thereupon again●t me . and thirdly , the unreasonableness of both in several circumstances , and the mischievous consequences of such anti-christian popis●e principles and practises . the occasion or thing for which i was excommunicated , was as follows . i having by my industry found out and invented a way to cleanse a certain sort of grass seeds , by some called trefo le , by other , nousu●● , and by others hop-clever ( but properly may be called yellow-clover , because it beareth a three leaf'd grass and yellow flower ) from its husk and course grass seeds , which course grass , was very destructive to the other , so that the same by means of such invention is become better then it was before , as some of my adversries themselves confess . now forasmuch as it did evidently appear , that such a way of cleansing the aforesaid seeds , was a thing that would be for a general benefit to all should make use of the said seeds , i then considered that it was reasonable i should have the benefit of cleansing the same according to the statute in such cases made and provided ; which priviledge of invention i did understand ( by councel learned in the law ) the king , by his royal prerogative , might lawfully grant and confirm by his letters patents , under the great seal of england , to the first and true inventer . and i being the same ( as one of my chiefest adversaries declared at their meeting publickly , that he verily did believe i was ) did and still do conceive that i might lawfully endeavour to obtain it as my lawful and just priviledge . forasmuch as by this means , i should prevent no person enjoying any of their former rights and priviledges which they enjoyed before this my doscovery for as they bought , sold , sowed , and improved it before , so they may still , without the least interruption ; nor have they cause to complain , that by the kings letters patents they are prohibited from cleansing the said seeds , seeing every person may have the priviledge of sowing the seeds which i thus cleanss , so that every one may ●eap the profits of my labour , and the greatest profits too , for if the cleansing of it were free to all , the advantage would be very little , wherefore i did on good grounds hope that no honest man would be offended with the kings letters patents , nor with me for attaining them , except it were a generation of self ended men , who , envy my prosperity ; nor could i believe , that i for this thing should be condemned by those who are my pretended tender loving brethren , since i have not hereby transgressed any known law , for where there is no law transgressed , i do belive there is no law to punish , unless it be under that government where usurping tyrants beare rule . all which considered , i did proceed in my endeavours to obtain his majesties gracious favour for the grant of his letters patent for my aforesaid priviledge , but being willing to let some of my friends know of my design therein , before i had finished my business , and judging matthew caffin most faithful , i therefore thought him most worthy to be trusted with secret things . some other also i declared my mind ●● to , who did promise secrefie , nor did they report it to any that i know of ; but he the said matthew caffin , whome i thought most faithful , was pleased to be offended with the thing , and would not by any means allow of letters patents , and because i would not without just cause desert my priviledge , and lose all the charge i had been at ( which by this time was not less than thirty pound ) only to please himself ( for as yet you may note that he knew not that any others were offended , or did know of it ) therefore he soon after ( the better to bring about his design of revenge for this my disobedience ) declares it to others , and our of doors they thrust it with as bad a name as might be gives to it . thus by his , and his consederates means , they provoked others to conspire against me , by reporting that other persons had made the discovery before me , and not only so but that i did intend also to prohobit all persons from cleansing clover , and thereby provoked several worthy persons to oppose me through these their false information ; because i would not sacrifie my just right and priviledges to satisfie his own ambition . by such means his design was carryed on ; for from his ill reporting of the thing , they now report what he would have them , little thinking that whilst he pretends a desire of good , they themselves are in this their so doing , become his servants meerly to serve and please his quarrelsome and boundless humour . for now by this means he can change me with a thing that ( saith he ) is of an evil report in the world , and odious amongst the common sort , he himself having under hand used all art to render it so . and now by this time he himself only requires me to come to a quarterly meeting ( as they call it ) in order to debate the matter at the meeting , but because i was ingaged to be at london at that very time i was not there . nevertheless a meeting there was , wherein he , as before , acted his part according to his art and cunning , whereby to make my case as odious to the congregation as possible , of which was as followeth . when first he came to mention the thing to the congregation , he said , that there was a certain case which he should acquaint them with , but said he , we need not name the person , nor judge the matter , for that is referred to another meeting ; but no sooner had he so said , and named the thing , but he immediately , to conjure up the displeasure of the people against me , useth all his art and cunning to make out ba●enta as odious as was possible ; and after he had spent much time that way , and bad seemingly answered that might be said for the justification of patents , he then said that i did pretend that i had a statutre for the justification of a patent , but said he , i do not believe it ; but said he , if he hath a statute for it , what is that to us : what have we to do with the laws and statutes of men , calling them unjust ? ( notwithstanding they are for the praise and incouragement of those that do well , and for the punishment to the lawless and disobedient ) and again said he , what a professor get a patent ? the very name of a patent is odious amongst the common sort of men , so that i can as freely have communion or fellowship wish any idolatrous or unclean person as with a man that should obtain a pattent ; and if be shall persist in it , he shall be dealt with or excommunicated ; and then said he to the congregation , whoever shall stand by him in it may expect to come under the same condemnation . thus by flattery and threats were they conjured to do according to his own will as though he were an apostle , perfect and infallible , and letters patents as black as the devil , as he endeavoured to represent them ; so that at the same meeting it was agreed by them that they should not : trade with me so as to buy ● sell for me ; and although my servant was one of them , yet it should be unlawful for him so to do . thus was i and my case condemn'd when i was thirty or forty miles from them , and before the weak brethren had spoken of it to me . here let us suppose some one in ecclesiastical authority , whom he doth separate from , should act and express himself as he hath done , i pray would he not judge and condemn such an one as a proud imperious person ? but to proceed , when the church-meeting came that was appointed for the tryal of my case , i being then to treat with the congregation about it ; after an oration made by this new lord against me , and letters patents whereby to render them odious , he then first charged , it as an evil thing ; for said he , it is of a bad report amongst people in the world , for i heard them speak against it , and said he , i could not speak one word in defence of it . secondly , he charged it as an offence to the weak brethren , and therefore we may not allow of it , but said he to me , you may plead for your self . now by what he had said at this and other times , i did well perceive , that he had a design to carry it against me with a high hand , and knowing no accuser besides himself , therefore i directed my speech to the congregation , and to the weak brethren , to whom i was to give satisfaction , and said , that whereas it is alleadged , patents are ill reported of by some people of the world , the same is no sufficient argument to prove them unlawful , no more them it is if one should alleadge the wayes of truth to be unlawful , because persons of the world report evil of them or reproach those that imbrace the same . and forasmuch as they had received an accusation against me from the world , and none of them there present to accuse me , i therefore had a desire to pl●ad my cause to the congregation ( who according to their own principles are to judge and determine all controversies according to scripture ) and also desired liberty first to discourse and reason the case with those weak brethren , of whom it is said , that pattents are an offance unto them , without the interruption of matthew caffin , for said i , i am none of the sons of art , who by their cunning can make a mountain of a mole-hill , and therefore i would that i might first treat with my equals , and then i would discourse it with him if desired ; for you must observe that the power lies in the congregation , and not in his lordship , as he himself sometimes in words confesseth , and therefore declares that the lord bishops are usurpers . but this poor courtesie was utterly denyed me , for those to whom i should give satisfaction , might not discourse the matter with me , by reason of his perpetual interruption ; for as soon as i had thus said , he presently replyed , that he never was denyed his priviledge before , and then crys out , it is my priviledge , and hath been my priviledge this twenty years , and what do you think that i will lose it now ? and notwithstanding , he hath confessed that the authority lay in the people , and not in the officer ; yet so it was that by his commanding power , and lordly prerogative , which he claims by vertue of his twenty years tradition , i was not suffered to treat with any of the congregation , nor they with me , by reason of his perpetual interruption ( as they , if they be honest , will testifie ) which occasioned such a strange confusion , that i was not suffered neither time nor opportunity to discourse with the weak brethren that were offended , as he said ; but to this day i know not who they be . but when he had spent much time , after an insulting and upbraiding manner , like his brother diotrephes , but never proving any thing by which i had transgressed any known law of god or the king ; nor letting me know who he or they was that i had offended . i therefore stood up and demanded several times , saying , who it is that doth accuse me ? ( for you must note that i refused to discourse it with himself ) then did this lordly person stand up , saying , i do accuse you ; now forasmuch as he had usurped an over-rulling power , and that my malitiouss accuser should not be my judge , and seeing that he had before prepared the people to do according to his own will and pleasure , upon pain of excommunication ( as they very well known ) the like practise in the church of england , if any such were , i am sure he would call it not only usurpation , but tyranny and intollerable oppression . i therefore declared for an appeal ( for you must know that in such cases , appeals to some other congregation are allowed of ) but so far was he from mercy , that he would not permit so much as this heathenish kindness , but with the consent of his over-awed adherents , after he had prated against me with malicious words , like his brother diotrephes , to rites he proceeded and declares me to be an excommunicate person ; and also said to him who did speak in favour of my case , and that but sparingly neither at that time , yet if he did not desist to abet the cause of the patent , he must expect to be severele dealt with , ( oh how necessary would a torturing inquisition now be ! ) for now there is to be no reconciliation without works of supererrogation , and that , because i did stand to justifie ( not covetousness or any one sin , ) but only the lawfulness of letters patents that are upon lawfull means obtained , and not otherwise . the which sentence of excommunication he was troubled to express ; nor could he find a name for the offence , but declared that letters patents were of the devil , and that the devil put me upon it . and all this did he do before it was proved that i had transgressed any known law , or that i had wronged any man , woman or child , or that patents were of the devil as he said they were . he having thus acted his part , whereby to practise his revenge and malice against me for this contempt of his u●urped tyrannical authority , he said to me that i might make my appeal to whom i would , provided ( said he ) they be such as me own ; now who they be that he owns , or who they are that own his dangerous errors , and corrupt government i know not ; therefore with advice i did make my appeal to the general assembly of messengers and elders , but i suppose that this great apostle , who thinks himself equal with st. paul was unwilling that the case should be heard and determined by them ; for since i perceive he did not own some of them , as doth appear thuse ; one of the assembly there present ( to wit ) mr. m. who had written against an errour that caffin hath preached up , and owned , and had printed it too , had not some of the brethren prevented it ; the errour is his principle cencerning our blessed lord and saviour , of whom caffin faith , that he did not take his flesh of the virgin mary , and that he was not made of the seed of david . now because mr. m. had written a book to confute this errour , wherein it doth plainly appear , that the said principle is heretical and dangerous , as you may find at your leasure in his said book , e●tituled , a cure for the cankering errour , to be sold at the elephant and castle neer the royal exchange , the price a shilling , well worth the mony and reading ; for which book , caffin at this assembly , endeavoured to engage , the whole assembly against m. m. and also had prepared something in writing in the nature of a charge against him , in order to bring him under the censure of the church . and for this reason i conclude that he did not own these brethren , because all of them were on mr. m. side , a small party that were of mr , c. faction excepted . but whether he would not have me therefore to appeal to this assembly i know not ; but this i know , that whereas the question was put to one of matthew caffins right hand men , by a worthy person , why my case was not heard and determined by the assembly , the reason and answer was this ( to wit ) because their business was so much that they had not time for it : this i say i know to be an untruth , but this he might honestly and truly have said , that had it not been for his erroneous principle , and quarrelsome humour , there might have been more time spared and better , spent . again , i suppose that the great reason of his unwillingness that it should come to a hearing at london was , because i have declared my resolution ( that is to say ) that i would have it so publick , that whom i pleased should be there present . but however , if the reason why my case could not be heard and determined at the assembly , was want of time ( as it was not ) or , that it could not be done , because mr. c. adherents would not be there ; therefore to prevent the like excuses , these are to certifie all person whom it may concern , that i do resolve to make my appeal to the next general assembly at london , which will be about whitsuntide next , according to their agreement ; and in the mean time ( i calling all in the world there to prove if they can ) that i have willfully or knowingly done wrong either to man , woman , or child , or that in any case i have been unfaithful to any that have relyed on me ; and also to prove if they can that i ever despised admonition or the admonisher for any , sin committed against the most high god , or that i ever did design or practise any thing of revenge against any person ; or that i have refused to be reformed in any thing by which i have transgressed any known law , and therefore to the assembly i freely refer the case , where i hope they by doing justice will clear themselves from being guilty of any such acts of usurpation and tyrannical practises , as now they are censured to be guilty of by many sober persons ( of the better sort , notwithstanding they are justified by the baser or common sort as he called them ) and also will do me justice according to the unerring rule . yet notwithstanding all that i have said , if according to what was proposed by the assembly ( viz. ) six officers to meet together to hear and judge , of the , matter , whom i shall chuse as they said i should ; i then in , the mean time shall consent thereunto , always provided it may be at london , and that i may bring with , me to the meeting whom i please . and in the mean time i humbly beg all persons to whom these lines shall come , to have charitable thoughts of those who in the profession of the truth in this cause are wholly innocent ; for it is undoubtedly as great an evil for them to despise and condemn the innocent , as it is for me to conceal the danger and erroneous principles of a seducer . some other acts of usurpation i cannot but mention , whereof this is but one ( to wit ) his forbidding me to be a peace maker between neighbour and neighbour , when in the way to ruine one another ; in which work i have been often concerned . this also was an offence unto him , notwithstanding he nor any other can honestly say that i ever did knowingly do any unjust thing , or knowingly committed any sin thereby . who this new lords assistant or council is , i need not determine , but doubtless he is no friend to peace nor peace-makers . again , when at that meeting in which he accomplisht his design against me , he also in the face of the whole congregation , sharply rebuked me ; because sometimes , although but upon occasion , i kept company with great persons ( as he called them ) this also is contrary to his new law , notwithstanding he nor any other can honestly accuse me or them for any disorder thereby committed , but this did he do as though they had been a company of strange kind of persons dangerous to have any converse withal ; notwithstanding he knew that those persons , of quality are both sober , honest and of good report , and well deserving their places of authority , and the love of all honest men , for that they are favourites to that which is good , and punishers of those that do evill . now why he should have such an antipathy against great persons , that it should be contrary to his new law , for those that are under himself to be in company with them i know not , but surely if their great estates and authority were removed , and they in all pomts equall with the common sort , and his own new arbitrary government established , then i do believe he would permit them to be companions fit for him and his confederates , provided , they with submission , came under his new government , however in the mean time the baser or common sort are more necessary and useful for usurpers , than those who are in place of authority , and faithful therein . now if he shall pretend , that what he doth in this case is upon a conscientious account , and that the knowledge of it to be his duty to god , did constrain him thereto , and that the throat of his conscience could not swallow these small things , yea so small as not to be seen or heard of in all the book of god. i that am false in my judgment , but if true in his own , how then comes it to pass that he can swallow far greater things , yea as great as cammels in comparison of the other ; for he can swallow covetousness fraud and deceit , all in one morsel , as doth appear by his owning and allowing one of his supporters , who with himself thought fit to punish me with eternal misery , for coveting a patent ( as he calls it ) which no known law forbids , by which i covet nor take any thing that is anothers proper right . but this confederate having a good estate in lands of his own and a good trade besides , is not content therewith , but unlawfully coveteth another trade , which is his neighbours lively-boad , and so makes use of both ; and when they perceived that their lively-hood was diminished thereby , they to secure their proper right and priviledge , caused the said covetous person to be indicted at the assizes ; but he to secure himself , deceitfully puts himself an apprentice for a term of years to one who was of the same trade , who lived near twenty miles distant from him . and now notwithstanding his estate , which is sufficient to keep him , yet will he become a pretended servant and bondman , in order to defend and maintain his covetous practice , on purpose to enrich himself , and as it were to rob his neighbour . now whether this be not covetousness and deceit , and contrary to a known law , i leave it to all for to judge ; yet nevertheless , this narrow throated tender conscience of his lordships grace , can swallow this without asking any question , whether it be to the dishonour of god , or his truth ; all which considered , judge ye whether what he did and designed to do in the other case , were not for his own glory and renown , and not for the glory of the most high and holy one , as he would pretend . but further to demonstrate his being guilty of partiality in the highest degree , as may appear thus ( that is to say ) by his practising all the ways and means he can to accomplish his malice and revenge against a person that disowns his and their unmerciful proceedings against me ; and in order to deal the like with him , he laboureth to find an occasion against him ; and having found one sailing unawares committed , which might have more honestly beed born with , then many which he and they do connive at , and allow , seeing he did acknowledge his failing with humility , yet notwithstanding he must be , and was publickly rebuked , and further threatned to be severely dealt with ; nor could his lordship accept of his humility , because it was not really from the heart , as he faith , ( but how he should know the secrets of hearts i know not , although he pretends to it , but this i le say , if he have such an inspection as to know what is in the heart , why then did he , unknown to the people within doors , creep into a house and stand behind a wall to hear the secret discourse of two women ) but this failing of , my friend not being sufficient , his lordship hath sought out other inventions whereby to make him odious , and to cast him out of their synagogue , and will not now leave one stone unturned ; for why , he hath how sinned against one that cannot be reconciled , ( to wit ) his won self . for as in his conceit it was committed against the most high , it might have been born with from year to year , as you may observe . but now the case , is altered , and his popeship is now offended , and severely this offender must be dealt with ; and to work he goes from one house to another , as it were with threats in one hand , and flattery in the other . and the better to accomplish his design of revenge , he knowingly , purposely , and designedly did tell a lye of his own making , as may be made appear , and all this to make a discovery of some secret sin , which his lordship had reason ten years ago to believe was committed if at all , and yet all the time since as it was a sin against god , it was born with ease , although in his own apprehension it was true . but now doubtless to his greater trouble he finds it false , and the party innocent ; yet nevertheless , because he takes my part , he must be severely dealt with . but further , to make his conniving and his partiality more plain , and that it may appear that this his great care to discover sin was but to defend himself and his acts of wickedness from being brought to the light . another of his confederates , who is highly oblieg'd by his lord to stand by and defend his master at a pinch : at a certain time this person , who in a dissembling manner did pretend great love to me , but plaid jack on both sides , so far as it might do service to his master , ( this is that person to whom i first read my book , of whom i make mention in my epistle ) and so it was , as i by , good hands am informed , that this person upon the road had tired his horse , and having so done , he beat him with such cruelty , which caused a person to send a messenger out of his house to tell him , that a merciful man would be merciful to his beast ; but instead of moderation , he abused him the more , and fell a cursing , and said , a plague of god take him , he can go , but will not with a pox to him ; using other ungodly expressions to the spectators , who are credible persons , and will testifie the truth of it ; and although his lordship had knowledge of this disorder from some of the spectators own mouths , yet notwithanding all is by him connived at , and he only justified , and they in his account are all lyars ; judge now if this information had been brought against this member that is disobedient to himself , would it be welcome news , and easie to be believed ? but sirs , why may not he who was so wicked as to beat and a●use a person , whom he loved so , as to own him to be a brother in the lord , and yet several times did smite him with his fist , until such time that the poor man was constrained to strike up his heels , and all this he did , because the man would not willingly do a thing one way , because he could do it better , and with more ease another . certainly , he that without cause can do thus wickedly to his brother whom he loves , may do much more to his abused and tired out beast which he hates . and as touching his lordships dealing with him , for abusing his brother , and somewhat of another nature ( which out of a desire to regain them , i shall forbare now to mention ) it was very gently and sparingly as i am informed ; therefore it is not strange that he should hear with him in the other case . furthermore , touching this person that abused his horse , he seems to be a very religious man as some may suppose , for i think he serveth no less than two several gods besides the most high and holy one , ( that is to say ) the lord caffin and his own belly ; as thus , first you must note , that upon a religious account , as he pretends , he cannot eat nor drink with me , nor would not from time to time , not because any thing of sin was proved against me , or that it was because he was more zealous in the observation hereof , because it is commanded of the most high god , but rather because it did please his idol god ( to wit ) the lord caffin , as may appear thus , at a certain time he and i coming to my quarters in london , i being hungry , asked the maid for such victuals as the house did afford , his belly-god pinching him , he said , give me some too , and so went up stairs into my chamber , and there at one table , and a very little one too , we then could eat and drink together , at which time a friend cometh up into the chambers , and was very joyful to see us eat and drink together at so little a table , but said this religious person , i 'le warrant you he will laugh at me for this hereafter , but since that time he hath recovered his zeal to his idol again , and now he will neither eat nor drink with me , yet notwithstanding he hath not repented of this his sin , as it is a sin committed against the most high god ; for since that time i have told him of his behaviour in this case , and that in the hearing of another person , he then said , he could do so again , thererefore i conclude , that which he doth in this case , is not in obedience to the true god : but now may some say , you seem to signifie that he is an idol , and that he is idolized by them ; to this i shall say more hereafter , when i have done with his conniving and partialities which may further appear . for some that do not adore him , as others that are more fit for his turn , if they through infirmities commit or fall into any evil ( as i think none may boast that they are free ) let the matter be as private as it can , and for their sin as penitent , as through grace they may , yet notwithstanding he will make them as odious to publick view as possible , if they refuse to do according to his own will , yet if one who is his beloved favourite should commit — with one whom he loveth not , or at best but very little , let the case be as notorious as it will , yet it shall be concealed , and the worst shall be favoured for the sake of she that he loveth best . although the fact be as it were posted up for the publick view of all , and that there be a necessity of marrying her to some body , so that the beloved , and he that is not beloved , must now by the care of the brethren , go from one place to another to get them married . and although he the said apostle was informed of this disorder , yet notwithstanding , he never in publick rebuked them , until the early great belly discovered the fact , and then very gently too , but that in the mean time he did not deal with her in a corner , i cannot say , now if he had not been partial , i wonder why he had not dealt with or publickly rebuked this new married man , who was at that very meeting when he practised his revenge against my self , i am confident it was not because he had nothing against him ; for he and others did discourse of other things they had against him at that very time for which mr. caffins displeasure was sufficiently signified against this man ; but if he had been blamed or dealt with for that which was notorious , then the discredit would have reflected upon his great beloved favorite ; but why she should be the object of his love more then others i know not , but if he had known her to be better than others whom he hath insulted over , i am perswaded it must be otherwise then in the way of regeneration . there is an old proverb , kissing goes by favour . but suppose an honest widdow or maid should marry with one that is not in fellowship , be he of the church of england , presbitery or independent , and notwithstanding he be of a more honest life and conversation than he that was fain to marry his own favorite ; yet for this thing , according to his law she shall be accused as an offender , and no humility to be accepted of , but excommunicated she must be , and she not to be forgiven to the hour of death except they part , or he be converted to them ; but in the mean time , she is to be adjudged to live in forincation , and so their children are bastards but this doctrine is opposed by the congregations in london and elsewhere , and by what authority he doth maintain it , i know not ; but this i , with others , do believe , that persons fearing god , ought to match with those that do agree with themselves therein , if they can to their contentment . one thing more is observable which is this , that before this meeting he had certain knowledge of this disorder and yet at the meeting signified that he was ignorant of it . but to smooth up the matter , possibly he may pretend , that the cause of his bearing with this female favorite was , because she was his nearest or dearest kinswoman , and therefore this thing was suffered without pulick rebuke contrary to order for publick sin. to which i answer , that if the case be so , and this sufficient , then it may be concluded , that if a man will but purchase a kinswomans favour of him , he then may keep a concubine without any publick rebuke . but to all this i know , that some , whose eyes are blinded with idolatrous zeal , will yet say , that i do not well to censure him , for say they , i am confident that he hath holy good ends in what he doeth , and that he designs the good of all . to which i answer , so did others as honest as himself pretend , and that without doubt pope clement the first , did as soberly and seriously pretend the same thing , and those that idolized him , did believe that he designed the good of the church , when he made pardons and indulgences saleable , for seeing , said he , that one drop of our saviours blood had been enough to have saved all mankind , and yet that all his blood should be spilt , he perswaded himself that the overplus was given as a treasure , to be dissposed of by the chief officer of the church . but say you , these things are not according to the law of god and the holy scriptures , which we own for the unerring rule , and i say , so is not usurpation , tyranny , rebellion conniving at sin and partiality , the case is as broad as long , sin is the same think among the baptists where it is allowed of , as it is amongst the papists , whom you condemn and seperate from . what think you of it when a man shall be thus publickly charged with cruelty and cursing by many creditable persons , and yet connived at , whilst another man hath spent all his days , so as to commit scarce any publick evil to the dishonour of the gospel or the church of christ as ever yet was proved , and yet that an accusation should be received and credited against him and that from the mouth of one person , and he one of the world too , and doth speak in his own case and for his own ends , all that he saith , is not this partiality , i leave it to all the world for to judge . but forasmuch as i am blamed by some of my pretended brethren for calling them idolators , i must confess it is very ill done of me , if it be not true . but if i can make it appear that they do give more homage to their new lordly officer , than they give to the most high i suppose they , not i , deserve the blame . now that it is so , doth it not appear by this ( viz. ) one of his chiefest adherents soon after they had practised their tyranny without any the least shew of mercy . i at a meeting at this mans house did take an occasion to interrupt him in his discourse , and said that they preached one thing and practised another , he having not wherewith to defend their practise declares publickly that i had lived in transgression these several years , but would name nothing , and ( said he ) i have convinced you thereof , and yet you have continued in it ; and further said , that i deserved to be excommunicated for that very thing ; now sirs , i pray observe , that if this dangerous thing , without name , which he accuseth me with , to render me odious to the people , were true , and that he knew it to be so , which if not , is he not a lyar and a false accuser of his brother ; but if true , pray sirs , how hath he done his duty , have we not often been both at the lords table since that time ? have we not ear and drunk several times to our greater condemnation ( if it be as he said ) i pray sirs observe , all that could be swallowed up very well notwithstanding it was to the great dishonour of god and tending to the damnation of us both . now all this he can suffer without the least disquiet of conseience , doth it not therefore appear that he is more zealons to do the will of his new lord , than the will of him that is in heaven ; if not , why did he not rebuke ●e before this time , and disowned to have fellowship with me if i was obstinate , but that the thing for which he condemned me , was as a sin ( as doubtless he would have the people to believe , it was a most intollerable one ) i utterly do deny , and also do affirm , that he never did convince me that it was so , and therefore i leave the reader to judge whether he be not a iyar and an abusive false accuser , for saying that he did . again , if i did confess it to be a sin , and yet to his knowledge i did live several years in it , why then did he not admonish me according to order ? but inasmuch as he did not , i pray what condition is he in by neglecting his duty , and having fellowship and communion with it ; if , as he said , i deserved excommunication for ; the case was only this , a certain person from year to year was often a trespasser upon me by his cattle lying in my corn and pasture , which said person , at a certain time , dealt dishonestly with his own brother in a case that was injurious to my self also , by which means i was provoked the more to require satisfaction for the wrong which he did unto me , his cattle at that very time lying on my corn , and because i did take money of him in satisfaction of all the injuries that he had done me for the time past . and notwithstanding i never troubled him , nor in any wise hurt or abused his cattel , nor did take half so much as the damage did amount unto , yet for this i am accused , this is the whole case , and for this very thing , i in this pretended charitable mans judgement deserved to be excommunicated : certainly this pretended loving brother must believe that excommunication extends no further than to purgatory ; or if he believes it reacheth further , i then do believe that his brotherly charity is turned into that love which is of a hellish nature . but this of the story i cannot forget ( viz. ) that as the thing in his conceit was a sin by which i dishonoured god and wronged my neighbour , yet he never tells me i deserved this punishment until i had displeased his new lord and master ; so that sin commited against god may be born with several years without rebuke ; but a pretended sin against this new lord cannot be suffered nor born with one whole day ; doth it not therefore appear , in his conceit , that this lordly person is equal , if not more than equal with the most high , which is most horrible blasphemy to conceive . now judge ye which , in this loving brothers conceit , was the greatest sin , my sin against god , or my sin committed in refusing to bow to the image which they had set up , whose law forbids to buy and sell , so that of the two be serveth his idol god rather than the true . bear with me , i pray you , oh ! my pretended loving friends ; you have your infirmities as well as i , know you not that i was not suffered to clear with you in place convenient , surely if i had , there should not have been occasion for this thing , especially if your new lord had been honest , but he proving to be an usurping tyrant , and you to be his confederates and adherents to him , and all other lawful means for reconciliation , by me offered , being by you scornfully rejected ; i therefore , according to my duty , to convince you of your delusions , shall take the boldness to speak a little farther . and therefore further , to shew wherein your idolatry doth appear , as thus , when this your new lord had declared that patents were of the devil , and to be of that damnable nature , so that according to his new laws , none might justifie them upon pain of suffering his high displeasure , which in his and your judgments , is punishable with no less then eternal damnation , unless they submit . he having thus seduced the brethren , one who is very often a preacher amongst them , being asked the question , what he thought of their proceedings against me , and whether he thought patents were such dangerous things , to which he answered and said , he could as freely steal a horse as to have a patent . i pray sirs , observe how great zeal appears in this deluded person , for the observation of the new laws and precepts of this his new lord ; for rather than to sin against , and transgress his commands , he had rather sin a against , and transgress the commands of the most high god , in such degree , as to incur his wrath and indignation ; for do you not know that by stealing , you transgress both the law of god and good men , and by the transgressing of these , do you not know , that you endanger your souls to damnation together , with the loss of your life and estate , and will you do this rather than sin against or displease your new lord , and yet is he not your idol , judge , oh ye that are not seduced ! again , another person who was not at this meeting , to whom i said , that this new lord was an usurper and tyrant , &c. to which he said , i do not , nor cannot believe it ; to whom i replyed , and said , that if it be not true , then i am the lyar , and have done him greater wrong , and it is impossible for me to give him satisfaction , nevertheless said i , it is my duty to acknowledge my sin , and to desire mercy , is it not ? yea said he , it is so , but said i , suppose that all that i have said be true , and that i prove it to be so how then ? ought not he to do the like ? now to this take notice , i could not by all the means i could use , get any answer , though often provoked him thereunto , do not all these things prove that you idolize him in a high degree , or otherwise that you believe he is infallible , and cannot erre . again , another , person , who at the last meeting that i was at , before they thus dealt with me , called me to go with him , and being at a little distance from the people , he then standing still said nothing to me , i therefore said to him , what hast to say to me , he answered with a soure countenance , and said , i am sorry that your condition is so bad , and said he , it doth exceedingly trouble me that you cannot see it ; i pray said i , what do you mean , he answered , the patent , to which i replyed , why ? how doth it offend ? said he , it doth offend every body , wherefore shall i name any , to which i said , that to my knowledge that was not true , for it did not offend every body , no said he , that 's true , well said i , who then doth it offend ? he answered , the weak brethren , then said i , which of them ? he would not at present tell me , but through much importunity , he told me who they were , and that was matthew caffin , and that person that said i deserved to be excommunicated for taking mony of a man for wrongs he had done , and these two who are the most knowing men , and able to preach too , and deceive the honest weak brethren ; but as for those who were really weak upon honest account , and conscientiously were oppressed or grieved by it , i never yet could find or hear any to be amongst them to this day . i then put the question , saying , what hast thee to say against it ? to which he said , i do not know what a patent is , nor what it means , to which i replyed , i am sorry that thou shouldst be so weak as to be under so much sorrow and trouble for that which thou knowest not , nor dost understand , yet could he not , but must believe that it was but a very bad thing , and why ? because he must believe as his popeship believes , and do as he commands , and who more , zealous and earnest against me at the time appointed for the condemnation of patents . now , if this man had not been more zealous , for the adoration of his new lord , than he was to do the will of the most high god : why should he be so urgent for to punish me in hell for that which is no transgression of the law of god , what think you of it sirs ? hath not this idol eat up all love , and swallowed up all mercy and compassion ; for doth it not appear that transgression committed against this new lord is unpardonable ; and doth it not plainly appear that he in their judgment is infallible ; if not , why do you do these things without any other rule or scripture authority , and that before it was proved that i had transgressed any known law of god or the king , or that i had wronged any man ; i therefore demand of you ( oh ye my pretended tender loving brethren ) whose majesty i have offended , that my soul must be offered up in sacrifice to pacifie his wrath and indignation ; if he be not the true god , was it not your idol ? thus they feared the lord , and served their idol , and yet will they lean upon the lord , and say , i not the lord amongst us , and no evil can come upon us . but one thing more which is not altogether impertinent to the case , take as followeth , one person more , with whom i was very conversant , who was at both meetings , in which their infallible apostle practised his design against me , and notwithstanding he ( as i hope ) is a man as honest as any amongst them , were he not seduced and deluded , so as in all points to please his idol , for notwithstanding he never did believe nor could charge the thing to be unlawful , or that it was against the mind and will of the most high god , yet when he was at the solemn adoration of their idol , he not considering that he should do , as he would be done unto , did give his consent to this horrible cruelty , and from that time is become a great defender of his idols tyranny ; and such is the force of his delusion , that he is constrain'd to believe that what his idol saith , is as oracles , and therefore cannot but express the strange alteration of his whole mind and affection . and now in his judgment i ought not only to be damned for opposing his idol , but also to be hanged , drawn and quartered ; for said he to me , you never had had your patent , if you had not stole the seal , to which person , i say , i do not remember that i at any time was reputed or suspected to be a thief before , nor yet known to be an obstinate offender of the most high god , nor of those who are his faithful and honest people , and yet will you think it pleasant for such an one , if you were the party your self , to be hanged , drawn , quarter'd , and afterwards damn'd for ever : but shall i be angry with him , no , i will not , but sorry i am , and pitty him i must , because he cannot see his strong delusion . but possibly he will say , no i would not have a man suffer death for such a thing ; to which i answer , that if he were not strangely deluded and seduced , he then would say , that it is much honester to hang a man for transgressing the law of a king , than it is to punish both soul and body for ever in hell , for transgressing the laws of him , who is no less than a usurper , tyrant , and an idol , and that before you know that you have any command from god for it , or that you know that the party accused , is an obstinate offender of god , which indeed , no person in the world can prove . now my beloved , observe whether this his , and your practise and principles , be not the same with his brethren beyond the seas , who command the ignorant to believe as they believe , and do as they bid , and whether he hath not so far deluded you , as to put you upon such practises as do justifie the church of romes usurped authority rather than the church of christ , whose government is according to scripture authority , let him that readeth judg , and though hypocrite like in words he doth disown them , yet how can he honestly disown them when both he and you act by the same authority and though at a distance he may call her whore and harlot ; yet if she be so , is it not clear , that in matter of fact , he hath committed fornication with her , by approving of her corrupt and wicked wayes ? and therefore now my beloved , you may no longer wonder that he should have communion with idolators and unclean persons , rather than with those that keep themselves from idols , and approve of letters patents ; for if idolatrous zeal hath not blinded your eyes , you may see that he himself is an idol and a fornicator , and hath fellowship with idolators every day . but whereas some of you cry out against me , for saying , that he is a false apostle and doth contemn the authority of all that are above him , i am therefore apt to conceive some objections will be raised , or shifting excuses endeavoured to be made by this lordly usurper , to wave or deny what he hath said or done , notwithstanding all may be proved by many persons , if they were injoyned to speak but the truth of what they know ; ( viz. ) his saying , if there be a statute for it , what is that to us , what have we to do with the laws and statutes of men ? that patents are of the devil ; and that he could as freely have communion with idolatrous and unclean persons , as with that man that should have a patent ; nothing of which was opposed by you , although , all those expressions savour strongly of contempt of all authority whatever , and seem directly to oppose that precept of peace , loyalty and obedience enjoyned by the apostle to a true christians , pet. ca. . v. . and . submit your selves to every ordinance of man , &c. but possibly he will alledge , that several persons of good quality subscribed their hands against me in procuring the patent , to which i answer , that those worthy persons opposed my proceedings only upon a mistake , and the false informations of one or two conspirators , and that some of them since they came to understand the truth of the matter , have freely declared to me , in the presence of several persons , that they were sorry they did appear against me , and did now believe it was both just and right for me to enjoy my priviledge . but suppose he should deny the truth , and say he did not affirm that patents were of the devil , then observe i pray , whether it doth not appear very plainly by his actions in the very case of the before mentioned covetous person , who is suffered by deceit and fraud , unlawfully to exercise or enjoy his neighbors priviledge or calling ; for notwithstanding they know it is contrary to all law , yet in contempt thereof , he and his covetous practises are allowed of . but suppose this covetous person should have obteined a patent from the king , whereby he might enjoy the trade or livelyhood of other men , then according to his law , it must come under the same condemnation ; so that it appears evident , that 't is patents , not covetousness ; patents not fraud ; simply patents , not deceit , that is the forbidden fruit of him whom you adore . again , if he did not condemn patents abstractedly and meerly as such to be of the devil , why are patents worse in his conceit than idolatry and uncleanness ? but if you should say , that you condemn me for justifying of patents , that by false information , and so to unlawful ends were obtained ; i answer this cannot be , for i ever said , that if any other persons did make the discovery before my self , then it was their priviledge and not my own , and that in such case my endeavours had been evil ; since ( as i always declared ) patents are grantable only to the first inventors and not otherwise , and that if it could be proved that any person before my self did find out the thing i should immediately desist . again , if patents , were not of the devil , in his conceit , why should he condemn me for justifying of a patent ? and not because i endeavoured to secure the thing it self , but judged it lawful for me to prevent other persons of cleansing of the seeds , and also did justifie me for ingaging my servants by promise not to cleanse the same , or to instruct any other therein ; therefore , most plain it is , that my withholding persons from doing the thing , is not the sin or evil , but patents , and patents simply that is sinful , and of the devil ; if not , why is not one means lawful as well as the other , seeing they both tend to one thing and one end . furthermore , if he did not judge patents in themselves to be of the devil , why should he and you upon deliberate consultations agree , that it should be unlawful for any brother to buy or sell for him that should have a patent ? whence it must be concluded , that either patents or this your apostles practise must be of the devil ; and what he hath done , is either to please the most high god , or himself ; if you say it doth please the most high , i demand of you to prove it . but if you will say , that it was his and the churches duty to practise these things only to satisfie the weak brethren and common sort of people ; shew me your commission for it ; if not , then give me leave i pray to shew the danger of this seducing error , which you conceit is a righteous and charitable principle to preserve peace , love and unity in the church ; to which purpose be pleased to consider , if a person that shall obtain a favour of a prince , or do any other thing , which the weak brethren may interpret or call an offence to them , may not be suffered upon pain of excommunication or damnation , which is all one in your sense ; whether the thing for which they are offended , be lawful or unlawful , ( as your new law-maker hath asserted , and endevoured to prove to be , as you well know to be true ) observe then , i say , whether this be not a stirrup to mount himself into a saddle of supremacy , or a foundation step to exalt him into the seat of the highest dignity and authority ; so as that all from the king on his imperial throne , to the meanest subject , must truckle to him , and be in subjection under him , and his pretended weak brethren , and common sort of men , since no person may offend them in any case , upon pain of excommunication , nor oppose his lordships design , he having the commanding power , and the weak brethren on his side ; for they like so many children are easily perswaded and deluded by their strong lord and master . this must needs open a wide gap for all kind of usurpation and tyranny , and makes excommunication meerly an instrument to gratifie the malitious revenge of a private person on his brother , under colour of offence : for if any one displease his lordship , who hath the commanding power , he then may make it his work ( and who shall hinder him ) to render such person and his case as odious as he pleaseth . and at this work he is not a little arch and dexterous , but can forecast his devises so as to accomplish his design , and when he hath thus , by his subtilty , instigated the weak brethren against the person whom he resolves to crush , then they must declare that they are offended , although they have nothing to say therein , nor do understand the matter , however having declared against the party or thing according to his pleasure , and the words by him put into their mouths , he then assembling again with these his weak brethren , and in the congregation makes it his business to engage them also against the person , for that he lies under the most abominable crime of accepting a lawful favour from a king , which is an offence to the weak brethren ; and for this offence without proving the matter to be any breech of the law of god , the party must suffer excommunication , and had he but the priviledge of a torturing . inquisition , all that dare oppose his designs doubtless should be sure to be ( according to his own word ) severely dealt with . but to proceed in his disorderly order ; you must observe in the next place , that he himself is to manage the tryal between the supposed offender , and the pretended offended , though the quarrel be still his own , and the thing designed only to bring about his revenge , or what pleaseth him best , which he is able to manage without controul as you well know , for by his twenty years prerogative , he will not suffer the case to be debated between the offender and his accusers , and those of the court , nor is it necessary in his government ( though prescribed in scripture ) that the weak offended brother should endeavour first by himself , and afterwards with one or two more to admonish the offender : but such is his arbitrary order , that the party accused shall never know who his accusing weak brethren are , nor do i know to this day , though i did several times demand the same . having thus setled his absolute government , wherein himself in effect has authority to all , viz. accuse , judge , and condemn , whilst all the rest are silent , or speak according to his pleasure , not daring to oppose , so as to take the prisoners part , upon pain of damnation : what then , i pray , shall hinder him from exercising his usurped authority , and making his tyranny and cruelty , his unlimitted power and greatness known , so that he may as he lifts prosecute his revenge against those that will not adore him , ( the refusal whereof , i verily believe was my great crime . ) he therefore calls a court , commands one of his subjects ( as he thought ) to appear before his lordship , and there accuseth him as aforesaid for accepting of a lawful favour from a king ( but subtilly pretends it an offence to the weak brethren and common fort of men , as he calls them ) this thing , faith he , is odious and abominable ; and according to our law unsufferable , whoredome , fornication , or idolatry , we allow of , rather than this. what sayest thou ? thou mayst plead for thy self , but 't is to no purpose ; for if thou hast offended me , and my deluded weak ones , thou shalt know , that i am thy accuser , lord and judge my self ; and thou must not expect any benefit in this court , by pleading thy cause , with any others besides my self ; for it is my priviledge , and hath been so these twenty years , and , what , do you think i will loose it now ? and then , after an insulting manner , render such an one as odious , as malice and a lying tongue subtilly can express : as you may likewise well remember ; all which perhaps strangers may suppose to be only a chollerick fit , and that he speaks in passion , but i must therein undeceive them , for i would not abuse him , i think all the world cannot put him into the least shew of passion , and that matchiaevel might have been his pupil in the arts of dissimulation ; he salutes you as joab did abner ; with a kiss , and all hail my brother , but at the same time fails not to smite you under the fifth rib : in brief , he kills you with pure kindness , and under pretence of the highest love , makes you an example of sober revenge ; by which means he so far deludes , the poor weak brethren , that they cannot but believe , whatever he doth is for holy ends . but further , observe , i pray , whether this great pretended charitable principle will lead : if the case be so , that whoever offends the weak brethren , must be condemned , and that they may be offended with persons for doing that which is honest and lawful , and meerly of a civil nature , ( as he saith they may ) then suppose that the church did consist of the greatest number and strongest party in the nation , and that the baser or common sort ; as he calls them , whose part he hath taken , were agreed , and this new lord their chief conducter , command●r and law-given ; and the weak brethren , through his instigation , or otherwise declare , that it is a very great offence to them , that the king should have his crown , dignity and prerogative , and all persons within his dominions to be his subjects , and therefore they cannot but be offended till he hath otherwise disposed of the same ( for the wearing of gold , silver and ribonds , he hath already voted insufferable ; and as we say , in the vulgar proverb , if his cap be made of wool , he shall pay the debt ; so if his majesties crown be made of gold , it seems he must submit , or be dealt with ) considering i say , you are not to have respect of persons in judgment , nor any amongst you , dare make opposition upon pain and peril of excommunication : what i pray , what may the king do in this case ? for as he is a member , he may not by your law , offend a weak brother upon pain of suffering eternal damnation ( if he believe as the church believes ; ) and also to resist the commands of this upstart lord ecclesiastick , he may not , because they are the greatest number , and at his request must prosecute with the greatest force and vigor . again , what if the weak brethren should take a fancy , or be perswaded to make a king of him , who is so humble , so holy , and always ready to please them , by making the rich and strong submit to his and their own wills and pleasures , would he not say , within himself , ob ! this is pleasant . but suppose ( as the popes at their election ) he should pretend himself unwilling , and with hypocritical prayers ( and perhaps tears , but of joy ) seem to beg heartily to be excused , yet at last rather than offend the weak brethren , he must yield and give them satisfaction ; for may he not say , it is better for me to be a rebel , than be damn'd for offending the weak brethren ; i cannot in conscience deny , it is my duty to accept it , when they will not be contented without it , &c. but possibly it may be objected , and said , that i am upon the extreams in this supposition , and speak of things so far from being heard of heretofore , or apprehended hereafter , that they are wholly unimaginable , to which , i answer , that in some measure , the like hath been practised by john the taylor , king of leyden , and that to the great infamy and abuse of many innocent , honest and peaceable professors to this very day ; be not therefore over confident , but know that wiser men , and i do believe ; no less strict , holy , and zealous then your selves , have been deluded and seduced ; for , zeal without true knowledge is most dangerous ; i will only give you one instance , in that godly man a●hington , who was learned both in scripture and law , and a very sober , conscientious , religious person , yet he and another being stronger in zeal than judgement , were so far deluded and seduced , as verily to believe , that one hacket ( by reason of his great protestations of holy zeal , for gods glory , and the churches reformation ) was the most holy man that ever was born ( the lord jesus excepted . ) and secondly , ●at he was immediately fent from the lord in heaven , to prepare his way before him , to deal severely with all opposers , and doe great things for such , as would be conformable and obedient to their lord and saviour . and thirdly , that the said hacket should be emperor , of all europe , and all other kings and princes be in subjection to him ; nay , further , in short time they proceeded to that height of blind zeal and impiety , that by such delusions , they were led and constrained to go into cheapside , and there openly proclaim him , the said hacket , to be the lord jesus come from heaven , and that in such a place people might find him . lastly , when they all three , to wi● , the seducer and the seduced , were apprehended and sent to three several prisons , that they could not see each other till they were brought before the queen ( viz. elizabeth ) and her honourable councel , where seeing hacket again , this poor deluded arthington possest with a transport of misplaced zeal , could ; not refrain , but fell down to him on his knees before them all , saying , god save the king of europe : nor could he be dispossessed of this spirit , of delusion , till he heard , that the said hacket was executed , and those , wretched and blasphemous speeches he uttered upon the ladder , viz. if there be a god in heaven , he will rid me out of these villains hands ; if he do not , i will pull him from his throne , and within few days destroy this city with fire and brimstone ; meaning london , for you must note , this poor seduced man , did believe they had not power to put him to death ; this news coming to arthingtons ears , he was immediately dispossessed of that seducing spirit , and through grace recovered out of that wretched estate , and became again a very godly man , but his companion ( whose name was coppinger ) when he heard of the villain hackets desperate end , fell distracted and dyed mad . be not therefore , my beloved , pressumptuously confident ; but beware , i pray beware , how you close with , justifie , or defend any usurped power , when there is no scripture authority for it ; remember that this hacket was altogether as great a pretender to holiness as your seducer , see the book intituled , athington's seduction and repentance , and although the story seem strange , yet most true it is , and acted in london no longer ago than in the days of queen elizaheth now my beloved , if you find , that he yet will justifie , or endeavor by deceit and subtilty to excuse what he hath wickedly done , let not his former righteousness be regarded , until by plain demonstrations , he shew that such his evil is repented of ; keep close to your unerring rule , the divine word , for otherwise who knows into what extreams you may run , which brings me back further , to answer your aforesaid objection , that i am upon the extreams , as to what i have supposed was poss : ible to be accomplished by this pretended holy politician , and those his weak brethen , if power and opportunity were not wanting ; for i pray , what shall hinder your extreams in action , from answering my extreams of imaginations : since it is plain that your liberties are in his own judgment boundless , ( mark that ) for let the case be lawful or unlawful civil or ecclesiastick , if it do but offend the weak brother 't is all one , as he most vainly endeavoured to inser from those words of st. paul , if meat make my brother to offend , i will eat no meat whilst the world stands ; whence he concluded . that the weak ought to be born with , in all cases , so that if one that were strong , had a just and lawful right to do or act any thing in civil matters it might not be suffered , if any weak brethren should say they were offended with it . but , say you , can it be believed , that any such wickedness as you suggest , should be ever attempted , by m. c. what ? an innocent , a turtle , to turn devouring eagle ; or a lamb couchant on a sudden start up into a lion rampant ; surely , no wise people will think it possible . to which i answer , that his brethren , innocent the third and others , as honest as himself , did pretend to as great holiness and humility as himself can do , declaring themselves in words to be so far from affecting the supream dignity , that they alwaies stiled themselves servants of the servants of christ , nothing seemingly more humble , nothing more innocent ; but observe if either emperor , king or prince offended them , down they must to receive correction , and on their knees , they must kiss the great ( and perhaps the gouty ) toe of this metamorphosed creature : remember that no man grows horrible wicked all at once , usupations steal upon us by degrees , and several steps ; what is once done by permission , shall next time be exacted as by right , and every president of encouragements pact , serve as a lam to justifie those to come ; till at last having forsaken the polestar of gods word , which ought to limit all spiritual authority , they come to launch into a boundless ocean of tyranny , where they have no card to steer their course by , but the meer will and pleasre of an usurper . now , my brethren , although this new deluding principle , which faith , a man shall either submit to the wills and pleasures of the weak brethren in all cases , whether lawful or unlawful , or otherwise be damned ; and that all others who oppose this doctrine , must be dealt seberely with ; be such an one as i never heard of before , either here or beyond the seas : yet is it a most proper engine to mount an ambitious and domineering spirit , unsuspectedly , to a state of su●remacy . for now he would have you believe the weak brethren ( who shall certainly be on his side ) are infallible , if he can but prevail with them to say they will be offended if a thing be not done thus or thus ; so it must be , without any dispute upon what grounds or warrants ; which indeed is a flie new cheat , not inferior to any invented by the most politick and ingenuousest jesuit whatever ; as seeming to have nothing of self in it , but wholly guilded over with tender innocence , and in tire love to the weak brethren . and for as much as your pretended apostle caffin , when the author of this new minted cheat , which leads no man knows whether ; it 's pity he should be denied the glory of the invention , and therefore i case not if i call it , the caffetman , or caffinian error . be not deluded , my brethren ; why should you that acknowledg your selves weak , conceit your selves wiser than the strongest : certain it is , christian emperors , kings and princes , yea whole churches , have been deluded and abused by their pretended innocent holy fathers . thus pope innocent iii. called his brethren before him , as your pretended innocent lord may do ; and being assembled , it was enacted by them , that this innocent lamb , the pope , and his successors , should have the correction of all christian kings and princes . and also , that no emperor should be acknowledged to be emperor , until he had sworn obedience unto him : verifying that saying of the wise . king solomon ; i have seen a sore evil under the sun , servants on horse-back , and princes as servants walking on the earth . for he being thus mounted and set up above all , makes open protestation , that his pontificial dignity : was rather to give laws to emperors , kings and princes , than to receive any from them : as your innocent leader would do ; who saith , what have we to do with the laws and statutes of men ? and what , i pray , shall hinder your , new lord , or chief officer , from doing , as well as saying the same thing , if his horn were but as strong as his brother innocent's was ? what do all his pretences to holiness signifie to the contrary , since with your consents he can do as it pleaseth himself , without scripture authority ? no doubt pope innocent could alleadg as plausible holy ends for what he acted , as your pretended innocent lamb can do for correcting the king 's royal prerogative , as it hath relation to the lawfulness of letters patents : and why may not he correct the same in other cases , as well , as this , if by his instigation the weak brethren should be offended , therewith ? i therefore think it my duty to oppose this dangerous erroneous principle , and crush this cockatrice in the egg , before it be grown into a devouring serpent . further my friends , i pray consider , whether he hath not deluded and seduced you , to believe , that he is a most innocent , humble , and faithful apostle , by means of his hypocritical exclaiming against the pope , for usurpation and tyranny ; against bishops for their lordly authority , against presbyters , for being as rigid and corrupt as any ; against , independants , for errors ; and with a high hand against the quakers charging them with pride and self-conceitedness , that they will not say , most noble festus , but despise dominions , and speak evil of dignities , and that their look it more stout then their fellows , ( see his book against quakers , page . ) after all this judging and condemning pride , usurpation , cruelty , and unwarrantable teners and practices in others , who amongst the weak and blind would , suspect , that this meek seeming lamb or gentle dove , should be or act like a ravenous woolf , or lion rampant himself ? but may not the quakers and those that he doth thus condem , reply to him in the words of our blessed saviour , thou hypocrite , first cast out the beam out of thine own eye , and then mayst thou see more clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brothers eye ; for is it not hiypocrisie for your new lord to condemn his brother at rome , for that which he himself doth practise and allow of at home ? for if at rome a man offends the pope , who orders the matter so , that such person shall be condemned , although no known law of god be transgressed ; doth not your lord act the same things ? nay , may it not be said , without injuring truth , that the church of rome is not altogether so cruel ; for they only separate the soul from the bodies of some persons , because they will not go their way , which they believe is the only way to heaven ; but you my pretended loving brethren ! will shut a man out of heaven , and send him to hell torments for ever ( in your own apprehensions ) meerly because he will not submit to a groundless , boundless , quarrel some humour again , hath not this pretended innocent man ( as he saith of the quakers ) despised dominions and spake evil of dignities , and is not his look more stout than his fellows ? since if one that is under his authority , shall obtain and accept of a favour and priviledge from a king , whereby it appears he owns his authority above himself , what is it less then high treason against the lord caffin , seeing he will immediately declare that it is of the devil , and ( in effect ) that the person must be damn'd for the same , and therefore chargeth it as a crime against me , because i said , they had not any thing to do with things of that nature . object . but say you , is it not a sin to offend a weak brother ? sol. to which i answer , that it is so as the case may be , and that it is my duty , if i be the supposed offender , to clear my self , and convince my brother of his mistake , and shew him his failing , if in truth such his offence be taken without cause , and upon no just grounds , and that such pretended offended brother is to blame rather than the pretended offender , when he hath given no just cause of offence . i do further believe , that it is wickedness in him , whoever he . be , that shall after a lordly and insulting manner with high hand and proud look disturb and interrupt those persons , who are willing to reason together , in order to be reconciled one to another ; as i for my own part was ready to do ; and what , i pray . sirs ! was lie that hindred our reconciliation and christian friendship , being the first time i ever had opportunity to treat with you , is he not a disturber and quareller ? who perpetually interrupted these our reasonings , and laboured to make the breach wider than it was before , hypocritically acting under pretence of love , innocence , and peace , and yet an enemy to peace and peace-makers ? further , consider , is it not their sin also , that shall take such quartellers part , seeing those that will be conscientious for that which is another mans right , the church of god hath no such customes ? lest you also be found transgressors again god for not only allowing of disorderly contenders , but for condemning him , who hath given no just cause for them to be offended , as ever yet was proved , as you well know ; and your own consciences must testifie , if not seared . but this i most freely confess , that suppose i have knowledge and do believe , that i may eat flesh that is offered in sacrifice to idolls , without offence to god , yet if by my so doing i cause my brother to offend , and because that by my eating unknown to him that i eat without respect to the idol , he not haying such a degree of knowledge , is by me imboldened to eat thereof , as sacrificed to idolls , and so this my weak brother , becomes an offender and idolater ; for me thus , i say to make or occasion my brother to trangress the laws of god , is sin and that i deserve in such a case to be publickly blamed , if i do obstinately persist therein . again , if my brother being a jew , newly converted to the faith , and , whilst he is yet young and weak , dares not eat swines flesh , and therefore will have no communion with those whom he knows to eat thereof ; because the mosaical law forbids it , shall i therefore eat swines flesh or the like , that hath been forbidden whereby to offend this weak brother ? god forbid , i with the holy apostle will say , that i will eat no meat whilst the world stands , rather than he for whom christ dyed , should perish through my means , and doubtless in all such cases , as it hath relation to matters of religion and worship , the strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak , according to the apostles doctrine ; for whoeverdoth otherwise , becomes an offender ; but in matters and things meerly civil , and never by any law forbidden , as there can be no real ground for any such offence ; so doth there not lye any such obligation ; as suppose ( pardoning the lightness of the comparison , which yet is suitable enough to some persons childish dealings ) one of you should meet me at a fair , and cry for a fairing , and nothing would give satisfaction , but a romance or a ballad , and if my weak brother will not be satisfied without it , will you say i am bound in duty to gratifie his fansie ? but if i do not , he may complain that he is offended , and i may according to your rule , incur an excommunication for denying him . but if you shall seriously reply , that these things do not destroy the faith of a weak brother , nor may he perish because of such my crossing his desire ; i answer , the very same may be said for legal patents , they are quite of another nature , and in no wise to be construed as a means to cause any honest impartial man , that is in the truth , to deny our lord christ , and adore idols , or the like . but the truth is , as touching letters patents to be an offence to weak brethren , and that his design was to do them a kindness in defending their priviledge , i know very well the same was but a meer pretence and suggestion , neither had any of you been offended , if it had not first offended him ; bur the main thing hereby intended was to bring about his own vain glory , and make himself famous above all his brethren , and to be admired by those that do adore him ; for as he hath often to boasted of great things he hath done , how he hath corrected and rebuked great persons , and cast them out of the church ; so might he by this means have had an occasion to boast of far greater things than ever ; for now he hath corrected the kings royal prerogative and authority , and that with such an high hand , that those who are under him , dare not , upon pain of excommunication , justifie what is thereby granted , when his lordship pleases to call it in question , this i believe verily was one great thing he aimed at . oh! what wickedness will not be practised to gratifie an ambitious heart under pretence of love and innoceney ? what ? send a man to hell for not satissying a proud majestical quarrelsome boundless humour ! for so i must call it , because there is no scripture authority for his practice , and doth he now complain that i design to betray him or endanger his life ? as he hath said i do , because i would have a publick hearing of the controversie , and some of those present at it , whom he calls the world , to prevent which he hath endeavoured to provoke all the officers against me , saying , i had a design to bring with me some great persons to the meeting , and so signified that i might betray them into danger , and therefore advised them to beware , as though they also had been of as dangerous principles as himself ; but i could not perceive by their words or actions , that they apprehended any reason they had to fear any such thing . but i pray sirs ! doth he not think that those in authority are as tyrannical as himself , for other wise , if he know himself innocent of whom shall he be afraid ? but if by what he hath done or declared , he be a transgressor , and ought to be corrected for it , why , should he expect more mercy from them , whereby to preserve himself , and his actions , from the chastisement due for that which is sin , since he himself without mercy , would send another man to hell , for that which is no sin , as ever yet was proved ? however , suppose the worst imaginable , viz. that the civil magistrate for contempt of authority ( or only to please themselves , as he hath done ) should cause him to be punished , can he complain of them or be offended with me , cons : idering what himself hath done infinitely beyond it ? what ? shall i punish a man with eternal torments for doing that which is no transgression of any known law , and yet cry out by reason of so little pain , as may be over in a quarter of an hour ? would you not for this compare me to those unmerciful and tyrannical hypocrites , that would not touch the grievous and intollerable burthen with one of their fingers , much less set their necks and shoulders to it ? to make the case more plain , suppose ( my unmerciful brethren ) a person whom the king hath appointed to represent his royal person on the seat of iustice , to put his majesties laws in execution against such as are rebellious and disturbers of the peace , suppose , i say , this judge contrary to such his office and trust , should cause some one of you to be brought before him , & falsly accuse you with treason , or contempt of his majesties good laws , when you are altogether innocent in that case , and better subjects than your accuser ; but yet the said judge subtilly , by flattery and threats , corrupts all the iustices that sit with him on the bench , so as that they are constrained to be his assistants , or at best , dare not take your parts upon pain of death , which being done , he commands you into the court , and there he himself chargeth you with rebellion against the king , and as a disturber of the peace of his subjects , when in truth it is because you have according to duty opposed his usurped and abused authority , and for not humoring those that are deluded subjects , and so do not like nor regard the kings prerogative , nor his subjects priviledg ; but he having thus over-awed the jury , and stopt the mouths of them that with him should do justice , and so orders the matter according to his pretended priviledge ( which possibly may be a usurpation of twenty years standing , ) that the party accused shall not plead for himself , with those of the bench or jury , whereby to give them a right understanding of the matter , but declares to the court , that several of his brethren or consederates , and also those of the common sort , which are ready to take his part , do accuse you of that unpardonable crime , of justifying that which he and his brethren , and rude multitude condemn without any just cause , but by no means will suffer you and them to hear each other ; so that by such his usurped authority and priviledge ( contrary to his commisson ) he himself both accuse , iudge , condemn and pass sentence , and now without mercy executed you must be ; and all this before it be proved that you have transgressed any known law , or wronged any person whatsoever ; iudge now , my unkind friends ! is not this the case , lay but aside partiality and you may plainly see it as in a glass , to be so and not one 〈◊〉 or little better , as you may well remember , and your own consciences must testifie ; and must you believe that all this which such a judg so doth is in love , and that it is for the honour of the king and his righteous peaceable government ? and must you still believe it is your sin to complain ? or say , that this pretended loving brother is your unmerciful unjust judg , and a tyrannical usurper ? would you not rather ( if the case were your own ) think your complaint in such case most just ? and that it is the duty of those whom he hath deluded and through flattery and threats , over-perswaded without understanding the merits of the cause , to joyn with him in this corrupt judgment to endeavour speedily to reverse the same as erronious , and see iustice executed upon this seducer and unjust iudge ? tell me i pray , if you are good and loyal subjects to the most high ( before whom the greatest monarchs on earth are but animated shadows ) how dare you do otherwise ? but , my beloved ! what will the king do when these things come to his majesties ears , seeing one of his subjects is barbarously murthered , and that 't is proved before him , that this judg in a rebellious manner hath to the great infamy and dishonour of his crown● and dignity , rendred his righteous laws and government , tyrannical and barbarous , and that to the view of those nations that despise his sacred government ? will be not take his commission from him , and banish him his court , till he hath repented and amended his manners ? this certainly is the best he can expect from him , who is most merciful ; moreover may not the king be sore displeased with those confederates , who with silence gave their consents to the tyranny of this unjust judg ( even although he be sensible , that they did it through a delusion ) if they do not acknowledge their iniquities and repent likewise thereof . but in the mean time , let him now no more complain of rigid and illegal proceedings of the judges of assize and sessions , as he hath done ; i have been often at those courts , and particularly at chichester ( if i be not mistaken ) i observed the judge himslf to be the chief accuser , but when he had declared the matter of the charge against the accused , he then sat down , as a person unconcerned notwithstanding himself was the proper judg of the court , and although the offender had been abusive to him , yet he desired savour for the prisoner rather than severity ; but never did i know or hear of any of them so severe or rather tyrannical as to accuse , judge condemn , and pass sentence before any other in the court did prove that he was a trangressor of any known law , nor can i believe that any justice on the bench would be so corrupt and base , as to give their consents with such a judg , that a man should be executed for that which is no transgression ; for this reason , i say , let him ever lay his hand on his mouth and speak no more of others rigidness , &c. since he hath reason to fear that the worst of them may rise up in judgment against him another day . what you think here of i know not , but i do verily and upon good grounds believe , that the most high king of kings is angry , and also that you may not expect mercy until you are reconciled to him whom you have thus abused with your acts of injustice & cruelty ; i also do believe , that the party who hath suffered the wrong ought not to be reconciled unto his causeless , yet unmerciful adversaries , until they have done their duties by acknowledging and repenting of their wickedness ; so as to give reasonable satisfaction , which if through grace they should do , then let me tell you , that if i my self am the person , who have received the injury , i ought readily , and in love freely to forgive them , when they confess their debt although they have not wherewith , or cannot , make satisfaction . but in the mean time to give some brief answer to his late accusations . . whereas he hath been pleased to report , that i am very angry with him . i answer and declare . that i have as great respect and kindness for him , as i have for the greatest ecclesiastical person in the world , and know no reason for the contrary but that all good , people should love them both a like : for i hope no honest man will hate the pope , as he is a man , but as he is an usurper , tyrant , & c.. so in like manner as m. c. is a person reformed , he is to be beloved , and in that regard , notwithstanding all his uncharitable thoughts , unchristian acts , and all that i have said ( however you may construe it ) yet i solemnly declare , that if you ( my pretended friernds ) were ten times more my adversaries , than what your actions have shown you and he ten times worse than the worst of those that hate me most , yet if you and he would but acknowledge your evil , with demonstrations of godly sorrow , making reasonable satisfaction , i should as freely , as willingly , and from my heart , forgive all such persons ; as i would eat , drink , or sie●p , at a time when for want of those natural refeshments , i were ready to perish ; but otherwise , know ye , that it is as easie for you to perswade the idol of rome , to come to horsham and kiss the great toe of him , who is the idol of southwater ; as to perswade me on any other unwarrantable terms or means whatsoever to reconciliation . . whereas , he with open mouth exclaimed against me in the assembly at london , for comparing him to the antichristian beast , it may not be impertinent to let you know , i had some reasons for so doing , and i hope better than any he can produce , for dooming a person to hell for that which is no trangression . . because 't is said , that the beast shall forbid and prevent persons the priviledge of buying and selling revelations . . and accordingly this new lord , with the advice and consent of his adherents , hath by usurped authority , agreed and inacted , that no person that is of the church , although my servant , may buy or sell for me ; if it be objected that this was intended in the case of buying and selling of seed , only ; i answer , suppose it so , but why may not he and you , who have thus decreed , as well decree the same in all other cases whatsoever , since the law of god forbiddeth the one no more than the other ? . because 't is said that the beast shall forecast his devices and think to change time and laws , that so he may have the sole commanding power over all ; now consider , whether this new lords principles do not look the same way ; for saith he , contemptuously , what have we to do with the laws and statutes of men ? and speaking of honest christian brethen , we do not own them , &c. with respect to which texts of scripture , and other the like passages , i did indeed by way of allusion and similitude compare him to the beast beforementioned ; but that he is strictly and properly the beast there intended , that shall wear cut the saints of the most high , &c. i was ever far enough from believing , though i must acknowledge , his looks to be more stout than his fellows , and am more than a little confident , if he had but power , as some other usurpers have had , he would be as cruel and unmerciful to those that resist his pleasure , as any of those his predecessors have been , and the ground of my so believing is this ( to wit ) his sending both soul and body ( not to the inquisition , but ) but to hell torments , unto all eternity ; for disobeying , not the law of god , but the law of himself only ; and yet must it be my sin , because i will not conceal these things ? let me tell you , sirs , had it been a piece of wickedness confest and repented of , or had it been a sin committed through weakness , it had doubtless then been evil in me to bring it to publick view ; but forasmuch as i am convinced it is otherwise , know ye , that if i should hold my peace and pass it in silence , i should , be accessory to it , and do assuredly believe , that as i have the high displeasure and indignation of the lordly vsurper against me on the one hand , so should i then be sure to incur the displeasure of my blessed lord and saviour ( whose favour is better than life ) on the other hand , therefore durst i not omit what i have done , and for as much as i have seriously endeavoured otherwise for peace and reconciliation , and all is slighted , together with the christian advice of the honest peaceable brethren , i shall not value the displeasure of those that for this cause may prove my enemies , no more than that holy man luther did the rage of the pope and his idolizers , when it pleased god to open his eyes to see the church of romes wickedness . yet one thing more there is , which i and others cannot but much admire at , viz. that notwithstanding all his barbarous partial and tyrannical dealings , he the said pretended apostle would have every body believe , that all that he hath done and said , concerning my self is of unsained love , i do wonder ( faith he ) how any can think otherwise ; for i have received more profit or kindness of him , than of any other person whatever , and therefore none may believe i can hate him , but love him above all others . to which ingenious , hypocritical pretence of mighty love , which on all occasions he is pleased to enlarge upon ; i answer . first , that then certainly his love is according to his nature , viz. cross and diverse from all others , for if these his dealings with me be the fruits of his love , then most true it is , that his love is of a strange kind , well deserving a peculiar name to distinguish it from the love of all others ; and i having never met with nor heard of the like before , and seeing , because , he saith it is love , you necessarily must and will believe it is love indeed , let it therefore i say , since you will have it , be so , but to signalize it as more rare and famous than any other , may it henceforth be known by the name of tyrannick love , or love by antipathy . but secondly , judge i pray yee , whether it be not hypocritical also , for i verily believe him to be as great an artist , in laying grievous burchens on other mens shoulders , which he will not touch with one of his own fingers , as ever was bred in the school of the pharisees ; so craftily can he carry the matter , by masking his revenge with endearing pretences of admirable tenderness and holy ends . that it can very hardly be perceived , or so much as suspected that he can do wrong or oppress in any case , be the matter never so unwarrantable or notorious ; since to accomplish his desings the more plausibly , he will ( i know it by unhappy experience ) so forecast his devices as unperceivably to render , such whom he despises and levels his arrows at , as hateful as the devil , and as black , as hell ; yet in the mean time will signifie his great grief , sorrow , pity and compassion for them , and how sensibly he doth bemoan them , that he can hardly express the invaluable love that he hath for them , &c. and all this only , that himself may appear as an innocent dove , and shine as bright as an angel of light in the face of his deluded ones , by means of which insinuating deportment he dazleth their understandings and judgments to that degree , that they cannot perceive a subtle fox like woolf lurking in sheeps cloathing , but are still ( ignorantly ) ready to vouch his innocency , and justifie his actions on all occasions right or wrong ; oh ! the greatness and depth of his vvisdome and love ! how admirable is it ! as for his wisdome is it not from beneath : and his love as deep as hell ? oh rare love ? the only love to requite him , whom be confesseth , hath excell'd in kindness towards him ; and must it be a sin to complain of this wonderful great tyrannick love ? why my pretended loving brethren , may i not complain ? and why must my complaints be contemned ? did i come amongst you for any sinister or selfish ends ? did i ever gain so much as one penny thereby ? but suppose i had received profit by you , have you not received of me for every penny some pounds ? and that not by constraint , but willingly ? sure i am that of late years , i have been very careful not to come short of any of you all , in what i might serve you in ; so that against the church , i know not that i have transgrest in any case , although to my grief in many things i have transgrest against my lord and saviour , of whom through grace , i comfortably do hope to find mercy , although i could find none from you , who are his pretended zealous people . and now , what if the greatest part of professors in the nation , should disown me , for opposing a second popish infallibility and tyrannical cruelty ? or what if all the world should wonder after him , who antichrist like doth in words signifie , and actions declare of the laws and prerogative of the supream magistrate , and of the christian advice and admonition of the church and people of god , that he hath nothing to do with them ? as for the one they are unjust , and as for the other , vve do not own them , nor regard what they say ; must i therefore needs be silent ? must it be a crime in me to oppose such things ? must i believe , because he says ? must i obey implicitely , and meerly because he commands ? i tell you nay , i dare not for this reason : because that as in this generation ; so by the instigation of the antichristian spirit , the like acts of usurpation and tyranny in the next generation may be practised , and for their justification , they may quote the doings of their most famous apostle ●allhe● caffyn , as their president and authority . obj. but possibly some may say , if this pretended apostle knew you to be thus profitable to himself , and his poor brethren , why then should he cast you off ? sol. to which i answer , that i know right well , that his confidence in me was such , that he did believe , i would submit to his own terms , and so beyond others might become one of his chief supporters to uphold his tyrannical government , he little thinking that i durst thus rebel against him , for that he knew i had more than a little confidence of his being faithful and honest according to his outward profession and appearance ; although to my present knowledge i was then as much mistaken in him , as he now is mistaken in me ; besides , whether he thought himself beholding to me , for any contributions of mine , i know not , but this i know , that he never gave me thanks for it , nor did i ever desire any ; but possibly he might not know what my contributions were , because i never gave him any thing that i remember , but always delivered it to one of his deacons , to be disposed of according to their discretion : and whether bell devoured all , and the poor eat none , and the idoll ignorant ( till of late ) from whence he had his belly full , i know not , but this i certainly know , that he makes use of my kindness , as a cloak to cover his malicious arts of cruelry unmerciful oppression and tyranny . he that hateth , dissembleth with his lips , and layeth up deceit within him ; when he speaketh fair , believe him not , for there are seven abominations in his heart . whose heart is covered with deceit , his wickedness shall be shewed befor the whole congregation . a lying tongue hateth those , that are afflicted by it , and a flattering mouth worketh ruine . prov. . the . v. and so on to the end of the chapter . obj. but possibly you will now complain , and say , that my design now is , to prosecute revenge against him , and so become as great a trangressor as himself . sol. to which i answer , by declaring that if i should accuse you or any of you , as you are my brethren in the truth , or as you are christians , or children of the most high god , by acting according to his laws and precepts ; or if i should accuse you for that which is no trangression , and would have you punished with the greatest torments for displeasing my self , i were then a person desperately wicked indeed , no less than a rebel against god , and a traitor to my brother , yet if the worst were true , i could be punished for so doing , but as you would have me punished for disobeying the whimsical commands of your new lord ; but this is far from being my present case , for take notice , that what i do is not out of revenge , but conscience of my duty , and that i accuse younot as you are the servants of the most high god , nor him as an holy apostle , minister , or messenger of christ ; for all such i truly love and honour as they are faithful , and so i did him ; whilst his wickedness lay covered with sheeps cloathing ; but now i justly must , and cannot but accuse him as an vsurper , a rebel against god , a tyrant to his ●rethre , ● as he is guilty of partiality and wickedness ; not that these crimes are committed through weakness or infirmities , or acknowledged and repented of , but as they were done willfully , persevered in , and still endeavoured to be justified by authority ; and therefore know ye , that if it be any thing , it will be his own words and deeds ( not mine ) that shall condemn him . but whereas he hath said to me , that what he and you have done against me , is also in like manner done in heaven , except i submit . i answer , that the thing for which you have excommunicated me , is none other , but my contempt of his lordships usurped authority , and therefore , as i am not convinced of any sin therein committed ; so i cannot , nor shall repent thereof , until you do by scripture authority prove it to be the transgression of a righteous law , or that his unlimitted power is equal to or greater than the holy scriptures , or till he have so proved , that such his usurped authority is more lawful than the royal prerogative of the supream magistrate , and that he or his weak brethren , whose part ( at least pretendedly ) he hath taken be infallible ; in the mean time for as much as i was not conscious of any known sin by me committed ; but what through grace was repented of , so as that with a good conscience , i through mercy do , and then did to my great comfort believe , that i , whom you have unmercifully condemned , my lord and saviour , doth and will justifie ; and therefore i believe , and that upon good grounds to , that such his sentence of excommunication is no more , then as though his triple-crown'd brother beyond the seas , with his bell , book , and candle , had done it . and so , my unkind friends ! as you are erred from truth and righteousness , to conceal and defend wickedness , i must tell you , that according to what is my farther duty , i am resolved to prosecute , what i have undertaken against him ; as though i never knew him , but as an usurping tyrant ; for i do believe , if a godly man transgress a righeteous law , he ought to suffer as an other man , much rather such an one , who is so far from godliness , as to justifie , and by lies and deceit , defend his acts of impiety . therefore let none think , that i am become a persecutor of those whom i own to be my brethren , or that i oppose any , but as the oppressed may lawfully endeavour for the execution of justice upon the unmerciful and tyrannical oppressor ; for if i should persecute the people of god in their innocency , doubtless ( as the holy apostle in another case said ) i then of all men should be most miserable ; for i verily believe ( & heartily wish , that all good people were of the same faith , from the king on his throne to the meanest subject , that to persecute and afflict the people of god in their innocence , for doing that which upon scripture authority they ought to do , is a great and most dangerous sin , and of the highest provoking nature that can be committed , it appearing in my judgment so grievous to the most high , that he can in no wise bear therewith ; for , saith he , the lord to his persecuted children , he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of my eye ; whence i observe that the lord hath not by any metaphor expressed any such intollerable provocation to him , as that of persecution ; and oh ! that none would give entertainment to that dangerous persecuting spirit , until they can bring their commission from christ himself , and until they see and have an infallible knowledge , that it is the will of their maker , and that themselves be without sin and errors , for the almighty ordaineth his arrows against persecutors , and be sure he will not miss the mark. he will not do as men , shoot at a rebellious or stubborn sinner , and kill an humble penitent saint . besides , i observe , and wish it might be the observation of all , that many through grace in time , and others too late , have repented of this grievous sin ; but never did i hear of any good man , nor scarce any so wicked , as to repent because they had not been persecutors ; or that they had not persecuted more than they did . oh! that due consideration might swage the judgments of all persons who are inclin'd to this evil which is subject to so great danger nevertheless , wickedness ought not to be tolerated anywhere , much less in the church of christ , especially when practised and defended ; for doubtless in such case , great will be the sin of him that shall know it , a not endeavour to the utmost of his power to oppose and reform it : wherefore since you have again and again contemned my other lawful means and endeavours , that so iustice might be wrested , and wickedness justified , saying , all excommunicated persons will complain , and that 't is nothing if i do so , let me tell you ; it had bin good for all such confederates , that they had at first hearkened to the voice of the oppressed , and done their duty . but seeing there is no probability thereof , i hope not to omit any lawful means , whereby i may discover , whether you do not ldolize your new lord to that degree , as to love him more than god and your own souls , by defending him with lyes ; or by refusing to speak the truth , where by his wicked vvords and deeds may be discovered and made manifest . and whatever you may think , yet may you not expect any favour upon the account of your outward profession of holiness , but as you are loverg of truth and kighteousness ; therefore be advised to take heed how you make your solemn prote●ations , when called to bear withess to the truth , lest you sell heavens glory , and purchase to your selves hells eternal misery : for lyers , idolaters , &c. shall have their portion in the lake . beware likewise of false accusations : as for my own part , i have not , nor will accuse you or him with any thing but what i know is true , or can make appear by those who were never known to be false accusers . but for my own part this i say , that as i would not part with my just , civil , temporal priviledg , to gratifie the quarrel some boundless humour of that unjust judge , whose part you have taken ; so will i not ( god assisting ) part with my spiritual priviledg , or sell my birthright in heaven , purchased for me by the precious blood of my dear lord and saviour only , for a mess of pottage ; or that by which i may only please my self or any other . beware my friends how you sin against light and your own knowledge , to desend that which is no less than a damnable erroneous principle , for if it be true , as you have in words said , that the church of rome he become a harlot , which once was the spouse of christ , then vsurpation is a damnable error ; for if she had not usurped authority to compel persons to do and practise more or less then what is by their supream lord and master required , and appointed for discipline and. government of the church according to the holy scriptures , then no doubt but she had continued a true church unto this day . again , if the church officers had not through usurpation been corrupted , but had governed the church according to the will of our lord and saviour revealed in scripture , and not mixt their own inventions with christs institutions , then doubtless , the officers of the church of rome had still deserved the honour to be stiled the holy successors of the holy apostles , but if as you say , by usurpation she be now come a vvhore , and her officers none of christs ministers ; then i infer , that usurpation is a damnable sin : for ever since such usurpation her officers are ceased to be the holy successors of the apostles , and are become the antichristian successors of usurpers , tyran●s , and murtherers , and notorious enemies to all true christian emperours , kings and princes ; whence 't is evident that usurpation is a damnable destroying sin , and most dangerous to church and state. but you may possibly say , that usurpation cannot be the greatest and most damnable sin , since it is the sin of the holy ghost that is the greatest sin , and never to be forgiven . to which i answer , that the sin committed against the holy ghost ( in my opinion ) is that sin only which is committed under the highest degree of saving means , ( to wit ) god by his holy spirit and word opposing , and the person persevering in his intended wickedness , so that whether it be the sin of usurpation , rebellion , tyranny , hypocriste , idolatry , &c. any of these may thus be committed against the holy ghost , and so become impardonable . and therefore , my brethren , look to your consciences ; if baal be god , serve him ; but if the lord be god , how dare you go beyond his word and unerring rule ? believe not , trust not the best of men in matters of religion , in any thing that is not according to the word of the lord : remember that a man of god was torn in pieces by a lyon , because he believed one who was not as then a prophet ; an example worthy the observation of those that incline to trust any private man , rather than the word of god. be no longer deluded , oh ye my beloved , although unkind friends ; and bear with me for endeavoring at once to defend my own innocent just cause , and shew you your delusions , and how you are betray'd ; for hath he not corrupted your authority and government , so as to render it to be lordly , arbitrary , and tyrannical , contrary to the will and mind of christ , whom you suppose is the head of your church . yea , and i do also believe , that you think that you act under christ , by vertue of authority and commission received from him only , and not otherwise ; which if really true , then are you the true church , or part of the true church , and so ought to go no further than the lords commission ; which so long as you observe , you are undoubtedly his beloved children ; and true subjects to him here , and such as shall reign with him in his kingdom forever ; which i also believe is your hope and expectation : and to this you are often encouraged by your pretended true apostle ; and to believe , that the order of his present government will bring you to this happy estate . but if like a pretended angel or light , he with smooth words , and hypocritical speeches , and pretences of tender love to you , and honour to the church , have led you out of this good way and order , in which you might stand and remain in safety ; and hath inveigled you into a government under which you are become servants to another master , and rebels to him whom you conceit you serve and honour , like those grievous transgressors of whom the lord complains , isaiah . . yet they seek me daily , and delight to know my ways , as a nation that did righteousness , and forsook not the ordinance of their god , they ask of me the ordinance of justice ; they take delight in approaching to god. what , i pray , have you done more than they ? oh! that you would lay it to heart , and consider , whether you are not as much deluded as they were ? which if so , then beware of vain confidence , and be sure that you are in danger ; wherefore for your reformation i pray consider , first , that you ought to do nothing in obedience to your true lord and master , but what you believe is your duty ; because whatsoever is not of faith , is sin. secondly , that your faith and belief hath a firm and sure foundation for what you do , and especially for what you do compel in matter of : religion ; otherwise your building may come to sudden ruine . add not therefore sin to sin , but haste , haste for reformation ; apply yourselves to the law and to the testimonies . in case he compells person to submit to his or your wills , without that authority , then know , it is because his pretended holiness is turned into vvickedness : haste then , i say , and do justice , when by the lord it is required of you , although it be to the cutting off of your right hand , when by reason of a gangrening malignant distemper it is destructive to the whole body . but if notwithstanding all that i have said , you are so strongly deluded that he cannot appear in your judgments a rebel and an usurper , then tell me , i pray , who it is gave him commission and authority to accuse , condemn , judge , and pass sentence against a member of the church for that which is no transgression , and not suffer him to plead his cause with the congregation , whom in words you declare are the proper judges , or reason with those that were offended in order to give them satisfaction ; but contrary to the way of peace and peace-makers , perpetually to interpose with malicious agravations , so that we were not suffered to propose any terms of reconciliation each to other ; do you verily , believe , christ gave him commission to exercise this arbitrary government ? if you do , shew me good grounds for such ( your ) faith and i will believe it also ; otherwise remember the popes acts of tyranny are of as good authority as yours , and he as honest as your apostle and not half so much an hypocrite ! secondly , who requires you to be so slavishly at the dispose of this pretended apostle , as through his instigation to condemn a member , before ever it was proved that he had transgressed any known law , wronged man woman or child , or ever dispised any admonition , or indeed that he was ever so much as admonished at all by any two persons , or that there ever was any occasion for it ; thirdly , who gave him commission to say and affirm , that patents were of the divel , and that , he could as freely have communion or fellowship with idolaters or unclean persons as with those that should have a patent ; or to question the kings royal prerogative , and that meerly in relation to secular things ? forthly . who gave him commission to say , if he hath a statute for it , what is that to us ? vvhat have we to do with the laws and statutes of men ? and so be it , with law or without it , is all one to the lawless and disobedient ; and by what authority could he call those laws and statutes unjust , since they are for the praise and incouragement of those that do well ? fifthly , who gives commission or warrant , for such . strange partiality so as in contempt of the kings authority , to send a man most maliciously to hell ( in his own conceit ) for justifying of the same , and accepting a favour thereby , only to secure a just priviledg from being a prey to the common sort of men , ( as himself calls them ) and all this to be condemned under the notion of covetousness , and rendred as odious as possible , and yet in the mean time to allow of unlawful covetousness and that defended by deceit and defraud , he himself well knowing the same ? sixthly , by what rule did he walk ; who did receive an acousation against me by one that was not of the church , and condemn the thereupon when the accuser was both witness and party ; and yet refuse an accusation brought in against another who was guilty of cruelty prophane cursing , and that proved by several honest and unintersted persons , i say , what rule had he for this but his own will like nebuchadrezzor that whom he had a mind to save , he saved and whom he had a mind to distroy , he destroyed . seventhly vvho gave him commmission , to rebuke a man , and that in the face of the congregation , for keeping company with great persons ( as he calleth them ) who are known to be sober men and much honester then himself . and this before it was or ever could be proved , that any sin was by this means committed ? eightly , vvho gave him commission , to appear like an enemy to peace and good neighbourhood , so as to forbid me to make peace between neighbour and neighbour , and to blame me for being often concerned therein , though he could never prove , that there was any acts of injustice or disorder thereby knowingly committed . ninthly , vvho gave him commission , to move for the denying communion to several congregations , because some that were rich , were suffered to were a gold ring , or silver buttons , or ribbons , &c. tenthly , vvho gave him commission , to make it unlawful for those that are in subjection to his corrective power , to trade or have any trade or commerce with me , so as they might not buy or sell for me , though servants ? lastly , vvho gave him commission , to condemn the counsel and admonition of our london brethren , so as to say , we do not own them , nor are to regard what they say ? now sirs , if for all these things he have not scripture authority for their iustification , then remember henceforth that wholsome advice , when he speaketh fair beleive him not beleive him not , for their are more than seven abominations in his heart ; for are not such principles and practises dangerous both to church and state , and besides other wickedness , do they not render the government of the church lordly and tyrannical , and the authority of the state contemptible , so as to make the one dangerous to the well being of the other , for as the church doth increase , the safety and authority of the civil magistrate must proportionably decrease vvitness the like usurpation of the church of rome , makeing kings and emperours submit ; and can you alleadg any better authority from scripture for these things , than papists can for their ceremonies and traditions ? if not , vvhere are you : my beloved , vvhere are you got ? are you not within less than a sabboth days journey of rome , and whilst he with a high hand opposes the quakers pretended perfection , and condemns many others ( more honest than himself ) for idolatry , superstition , and usurpation , as though he himself were of a holy lamb like spirit , hath he not in the mean time by fair flattering words and smooth pretences subtlely and slily under pretence of holy ends crept into your affections before , you are aware , that now you are conjured so to rely on his infallibility , as to make it a bridge whereby to step over the authority of the holy scriptures that sacred boundary which as a river of life divides the church of christ from that of anti-christ . thus my beloved brethren , but his weak little children , whilst he is as it were singing to you a plesant song of romes ruin being at hand and rocking you into the peaceable sleep of vain confidence in his cradle of pretended safety , hath he not all on a sudden lead you over this bridge of infallibility quite a cross scripture authority , and squat , you down in the very lap of the great vvhose of babylon ; whence if you would but awake you need not vvonder why he doth not own those honest christian brethren , that are in the city of london , for now you may see , that it is the order of his infallible brethren citizens of rome that he do● most resemble and approve of obj. but possibly you may say , why did you not before this time disown him for these things , if you did not allow thereof . sol. to which i answer , that i was wholly ignorant of his great office and authority , and also of his deceits , and even when i had cause in some measure to suspect him , my charity was such that i could not conclude him to be thus dangerous and deceitful ; but if the case on your side be otherwise , and that you were acquainted with such his authority and order of government , so as to know he hath power to be at once both an accuser and judge , and that an absolute submission and obedience ought to be performed to this high-brave lordly-person , as aforesaid . then let me tell you , that you your selves who pretend to be my weak brethren , are most strong , and my self most weak and simple , and therefore forasmuch as you have offended me who am so weak ; according to your own law , you your selves ought to be excommunicated except you submit , whether the matter for which i am offended be lawful or unlawful , civil or religious . the case is as broad as long ; and as you are honest , i hope you will not think it too much , if you without mercy should be paid with your own coyn , especially when your actions whereby you have so offended me , were tyrannical and unmerciful . forget not , forget not , my pretended tender loving brethren , what measure you have made . but further , to demonstrate that his lordship , in his own conceit , is in as great power and authority as any the pope pretends to , give me leave to say , that at a certain time , before his acts of cruelty practised against me , i taking an occasion to speak of the sudden death of a woman of his congregation , he said , he could not see how she could enter into the kingdom ( meaning heaven , ) for that she died under admonition without confession ; or to that effect . whereupon i alleadging , that for ought any one knew , she might repent of her sin before she died . he replied , that it was all one if she did , unless she had made consession , that so she might be forgiven by himself . for you must know , the controversie lay not between the poor woman and the church , but between her self and his lordship , who would have been her confessor ; nor did he at this time know , but that she might confess her sin to some other person : but did she , or did she not , for want of articular cofession , and his pardon , he could not see any hope . judge now , i pray you , oh all ye whose understandings and judgments are not clouded with idolatrous zeal , whether this be not an infallible mark of popish infallibility , that he hath ( in his his own conceit ) the keys of heaven and hell ; so that whom be himself binds on earth , are bound in heaven ; and whom himself looseth on earth , is loosed in heaven . as if there were none in heaven that hath power above him , that may make any alteration without his license or consent . but for as much as many be apt to suppose that this offence in the good woman , ( and i think a very good woman too , for i never heard that any could accuse her besides the unjust judge ) was very great , i therefore will give an account of her crime , which was thus , this womans daughter in law being always cross & unkind , as was observ'd by many , went out ( because of their disagreements ) to service , and home she came again with a great belly ; at which the honest old woman was greatly displeased , and would not give her entertainment . this was the whole matter and fact he charged against her , which she must acknowledg to be sin , and make confession to him , that she is sorry for so doing ; or else , according to his popeships principle , she must be damn'd eternally . i pray sirs observe the charity of this tender tyrannical lobing brother and judg , which of the two he had most kindness for , the mother or the daughter ? some of you perhaps may blame me , saying , these are private things ; and that if i did see an evil tendency in them , i ought not after this publick manner to detect it ; but first admonish the offender in the spirit of love and meekness in private ; and if that will not do , to take two or three more ; and if he refuse to reform , then to bring it to the church , and not render him odious to all . whereunto i answer , first , that to the knowledg of some of you , and of my self , his popeship hath taught me another lesson ; nor did i ever find such christian carriage from him or his legate , that would have a man damn'd for offending his idol , rather than for displeasing the most high. let it not then be grievous to receive the same measure you have already meeted ; and withal remember , that the difference between sin committed through delusion or weakness , being repented of , and never justified , and wickedness practised upon deliberation , justified by authority , or defended by lyes and deceit , is very great . nor had i been so large on this particular , had i not certain knowledg of his great delight in auricular confession , which thing he improves to bring persons into subjection . secondly , that i had not learnt this lesson from your own practise ; and taken this way , had it not been that you are constrained ( as it were ) not to believe me : for , say you , all excommunicated persons will complain ; and therefore i may not be believed , nor the truth of what i say regarded . but whether i be believed or not , this i know , and with a good conscience i can say , that i have said no more of him than what i know to be true , or what will be justified by others . but here perhaps some of the weak brethren may say , that they have heard him preach against the church of rome , and call her whore and harlot , but never heard him preach against their pretended infallibility ; and therefore methinks i hear some of them puting the question to me , saying , object . you speak much against infallibility , but pray tell us what it is ; and shew us why it is dangerous to believe that our dear apostle is infallible answ . to which , for the benefit of such as are really weak , according to the best of my understanding , i readily answer . first , that for a person , or persons , to be infallible , is as much as to say , that they cannot err ; or that 't is impossible for them to be mistaken . secondly , if you believe any person infallible , you must also believe , that whatsoever he or they injoyn or compel in matters religious or civil , whether in point of faith or obedience , you who are under their government must of necessity embrace or submit unto , or otherwise be damn'd hereafter ; or presently sent to hell , by separating of your soul from your body with fire and faggot , or what other torments they shall please to invent , since they cannot err , but whatever they do here on earth is pleasing to god , who may not make any alteration without their consent . thus if he whom you own for infallible , shall declare , that scriptures are corrupt and dangerous , because they , say , submit your selves to every ordinance of man , you must believe they are so , or else be damn'd ; and all the congregation must say , amen . if he shall declare the good laws and statutes of the supreme magistrate are unjust , and not to be regarded ; you must believe it , and act accordingly on the same penalties . if he who is infallible , to cover his deceit , and carry on a design , require you to tell a lye , and say , that such a thing is an offence to you , when in truth the offence is his own , and not yours , for you understand not what it means ; yet you must do it , or be damn'd . if he or they who are thus infallible , shall condemn a person for that which in its self is lawful , and by him lawfully used , and not abused ; you must joyn with them , though against gods word , reason , and your own conscience ; and may not trade with such person , so as to buy or sell for him , though you are his servant , or be damn'd . if he who is infallible , shall declare against those who are honest godly officers , and members of several congregations in london , that he doth not own them ; you must thenceforth never regard what they do or say , or be damn'd . if he who is infallible , judge it lawful to be an evesdropper , to creep into a house , and stand behind a wall to hear the secret discourse of women ; you must by no means say , it is a thing of ill report ; if you do , into the inquisition you must go , or be severely dealt with . if he who is infallible , command you to approve of a usurped authority , and disown all other government ; to make himself only your confessor ; to murther and destroy kings , emperors , or princes , or any other persons ; to believe that the bread and wine after consecration ; is really and substantially the body and blood of our blessed saviour ; believe and perform it you must , or else be damn'd , and all the congregation must say , amen . but if some of the services are too hard , if you can but purchase as much kindness of him as your new lord hath for his kinswoman , you then may have pardon or indulgence without penance . obj. but now i suppose you will say , although he nor we had no scripture authority for what he and we have done ; yet we do not pretend that he is iafallible ; for if you remember , you were accused because by the patent you did offend the weak brethren , and you may call to mind , that our dear brother did prove , that whatever did offend the weak brethren , if the offender persist in justifying the thing , although in it self lawful and honest , and no way relating to religion or religious worship , ought to be punisht , and because you did persist , we therefore at his request gave our consents that you should be damn'd , except you submit , although you might not know who those weak brethren were . to which i answer , that by what hath been pretended and practised , you would have me believe that it is the weak brethren that are infallible , for otherwise you would not send a man to hell for offending them that are subject to a quarrelsome boundless humour : what your apostle said , i remember pretty well , but that he proved his groundless affertions , i cannot so easily grant , for let me tell you this is one of his popeships new cheats , by which his police is improved , the better to seduce you , so as to give him occasion to boast and rejoyce in his unlimited power and admirable greatness . for now it is so , that his and his weak brethrens power and authority , is equal with the usurped power and authority of his pretended infallible brethren at rome ; for now he and they may damn whom they please , and for what they please , except they submit , for what they please shall offend them . but i knowing that many of you , notwithstanding all his new devices , tricks , and deceits , do really believe that still his design is good , and his heart towards god perfect and upright . i therefore , in love to regain you , am as it were constrained to shew you what great dangers this groundless belief is attended with . the best of those who was seduced by pope innocent , john the taylor king of leyden ; that pretended holy man hacket , or any other the greatest deceivers that ever were in the church , were drawn in by this bait , viz. a belief that although they might act strangely , and practise things without scripture authority , yet their design was to promote gods glory , and that his heart was upright . be wise now therefore , and remember that the most vnerring and infallible rule is without him , not within him ; by that try his heart , bring the counterfeit gold to the touchstone , and whatever out of fondness or excess of charity you may have believed ; compare the same with that of solomon , and who knows but you may find it appear so after all his pious pretences and solemn protestations , viz. that his heart is deceitful above all things , and desperately wicked , who can know it . but if you will shut your eyes , and be still seduced to believe that whatever he does is for gods glory , &c. what may he not allure and draw you unto , having already brought you meerly on his request to commit spiritual murther , and most uncharitably and unjustly damn a man , without the least authority from scripture ? dare any of you my beloved ( though most unmerciful brethren ) say that his precepts and your practises are authorized by the most high ? do they not rather look like the hair-brain'd proclamations of john of leyden , or the extravagancies of a popish bull ? do you own the holy scriptures for the only and infallible rule for church government , worship and religious exercises ? search then i pray , peruse them diligently , and if you find not his commission for what he hath done therein recorded , you have too much cause to believe that you are betrayed , and if so , look to your selves , delays are dangerous ; hast to the work , keep close to your unerring rule , and eber remember that councel of christ , beware of false prophets which come in sheeps cloathing , but inwardly are ravenous wolves , te shall know them by their fruits therefore see his commission . but suppose he should solemnly protest ; that he is led by the spirit , yet ( as i wish the worst of you well ) let me beg of you to remember , that the spirit of the lord doth not contradict his own will and mind revealed in scrip●ure ; be not too confident , consider that others , like himself and his confederates , did in their wickednss lean upon the lord , and say , is not the lord amongst us , no evil can come upon us : is not the case plain , hath he not deceived and abused you at his pleasure , through and by reason of his pretences to an extraordinary zeal , and unheard of love. and may not all good people , whose eyes are not blinded with partiality , easily see his commissions and authoritie , by which he acted as aforesaid , proceeds from the devil , the father of usurpers , rebels , and tyrants , the authorizer of all wickedness , whereby he may destroy christian peace both of church and state ; and will you condemn the pope as his only darling child for putting in execution his devises , and yet justifie him that doth the same thing at home ; are they not brethren serving one master , both usurping tyrants ? and will you separate from one here , and yet receive your portion with them both hereafter ; if so , then i say , adieu to you my unkind friends , adieu to you for ever . but to prevent the worst , i would yet in love , with all plainness , further admonish you , in hopes that you will hear , as your apostle said , vvhat have we to do with the laws and statutes of men ; so let me intreat you seriously to say , oh! what have we to do any more with idolls : consider , and lay to heart , what an exquisite peice of cruelty you have committed , even offered up a soul as a sacrifice to your idol ; for since you cannot prove your doings therein were required by , or pleasing unto the most high god , is not the thing evident , that it was wholly performed to the solemne adoration of your idol , who alone commanded , and is well pleased with your actions . and further , to convince you that he is no true apostle , do but observe , i pray , what manner of persons they were he makes choise of above all others to attend his person , and help to defend his acts of tyranny , when called to london to give an account thereof ; for by the dispositions and actions of the servants , may be discerned what manner of spirit the master is of ; they being the only three ( three more such i would hope he may not find ) amongst you so fit to serve him . the first was he in whose judgment i deserved to be excommunicated for offending his lordship , rather than for offending the most high and holy one. the second assistant was he that defended his own unlawful acts of covetousness , by means directly unlawful , viz. deceit and fraud , and yet condemns me for coveting a patent : of whom i would ask this question , vvhether he be willing to receive the same measure as he hath meered : the last and more eminently zealous in his masters business than the other two , was he who with his fist of wickedness did abuse his brother ; and after his exercise of cruelty to his abused beast , wished the plague and the pox to the poor tyred creature . think you that these spirits will strain at a gnat , that can swallow such cammel-impieties ? or will you be offended , if to such a triple knot of preaching conspirators i recommend that text , you hypocrites , first cast out the beams that are in your own eyes , and then may you see more clearly to pluck out the mote that is in your brothers eye ? and whereas your lordly apostle hath as it were scoffingly called me dreamer , give me leave to say , that though i am far from practising or justifying any superstitious observation of dreams , as knowing that they are oft times caused by natural means , and prove only delusive motions of the ever-busie fancy , retained by the waking memory , whilst the judgment and distinguishing faculties , together with the external senses , lie fast lock'd up in the charms of sleep ; yet since we have both examples , and positive texts , shewing , that in dreams was one way whereby the lord was pleased heretofore to communicate himself to his servants , i dare not censure all representations of that kind as vain , casual , or signifying nothing . nay some reasons i have , considering the time and several circumstances , to apprehend , that a certain dream of mine ( the relation whereof might occasion such his lordships scoffs ) may prove no less certain in the event , than the dreams of him , who for his dreams was envied by his brethren . and for the satisfying your curiosity who have not heard it , i shall here faithfully relate it , as it happened , thus . on the day on which you were pleased to deal with me as an offender of the weak brethren , i arose early in the morning , resolving , as at other times , not to omit the performance of any thing that might be my duty towards god ; in order whereunto i prepared by fasting and prayer , to rely on him only for his guidance and assistance , without the least premeditation what to answer . and with sincerity i can say it , as i went out , so did i come home , with a gracious confidence of his mercy and favour ; but it being then somewhat late in the evening , so soon as i had refreshed my self , and performed my duty as at other times , i went to bed ; and in my sleep i had a dream , that i was standing a little distant from that house wherein this unhappy and ill-managed meeting was ; and as i stood still , observing the house to be full of people , and my self at a distance , as a person not regarded ; behold , a great fire did on a sudden appear in the house ; at which i stood amazed , crying out , your house is on fire ; but immediately it seemed to me to blaze through all the windows on the south-side of it ; whereupon with a loud voice i cried to them within to depart the house ; telling them what danger they were in , and often saying , the house is on fire : but all the care and pains i could take to perswade them was in vain , and wholly contemned . but whilst i was busie thus warning them to escape , behold , all the house seemed to be in a flame , the fire breaking violently forth , even through the roof of it . then did i observe every person suddenly to be in motion , and every hand set work , whereby the fire began to ab●te , and in short time after was quenched . this being done , i then came into the house , where i found all the people in a little disorder , some walking about , and others sitting still ( in that room where they had compassed their unhappy act of unmerciful tyranny ) but at the upper end of the table where the unjust judg or false apostle used to stand and perform his devotion , i beheld the perfect form of a pulpit with the door open , and on the outside of the pulpit door there was a little woodden-pin , on which there hung a very bright key ( of which i did often take notice ) but the pulpit being empty i inquired for the person that should be in it , but none made me answer , till at last it was observed by all , that the party belonging to the said place was lost , and could no where be found , and also that my company was acceptable . this was my dream , as one ( to wit ) my servant that then was , and was one of their company , and knew more of my mind than any other can ( if he will ) witness that i related the same to him the next day ; but this is observable that in all my dream , i was not sensible of any thing that had passed between the church and my self , nor did i awake till the morning light , and then my dream came to my remembrance ; another dream some what remarkable i had some few days before , there was a slop put to my obtaining the great seal of england , for the confirmation of his majesties grant before the late lord keeper , by reason of the untrue information of two conspirators , who suggested , that i was not the first inventer , and that i designed to prohibite all persons from cleansing of clover , all which was utterly false ; some few days i say before this stop was made i being at london , in my sleep had this dream . that as i was going about my business , in order to have his majesties grant confirmed under the great seal , behold there stood in my way a church , as it were quite cross the street , so that i could not pass by it , whereupon i stood still to consider , whether there was no other way by which i might go whither my business lay , but whilst i was thus considering methoughts a strange thing came into my mind , viz. that i must go over the church which seemed to be of a considerable height , and on the middle of it stood a very high and stately steeple , which seemed to overtop all the churches in london , at the sight whereof i was somewhat afraid of climbing so high as to get over the church , but so it was , over it i must , and up i got to the top of the church , and being there , the losty steeple standing in my way , over that i must go also , which i did , and went down again to the ground on the other side , where looking up to the top of the steeple . i returned thanks that i came over so dangerous a place without hurt , but passing towards my business , methoughts i was discouraged , and given to doubt , that at that time i should be frustrared of my intent , and was moved to go home with content , there to settle my self to the work i should find my self most concerned in , and afterwards i should have my expectation , as in relation , i mean to the confirmation of the patent ; this dream i confess i did little heed , though it of● came into my thoughts , till such time as the day of hearing before the lord keeper came , who upon their false allegations was pleased to put a stop to my business , and then home i came , where i not only found how these conspirators had alarm'd the country with news of the great things they had done , one of them boasting ( as i was told ) that they were promised , that if i did go any more to private meetings it should cost me every time , pound . but also that my pretended brethren were lifted up above measure , beginning to boast that they were justifyed on all hands , and that they were glad they had done it , viz. excommunicated me , before that time ; all which considered , together with the premifes herein before declared , i was then and not till then fully convinced , that it was my duty to publish their acts of injustice , and defend my own innocency thus beyond measure abused ! whereupon i did apply my self to the lord by fasting and prayer several days , desiring that he would assist me in the work , or otherwise withhold me from it , by what means best pleased him ; yea i did desire the lord to bring upon me those evills which that false apostle did predict should befall me , rather than that , i by this means should dishonour his glorious name . but the work lay before me , and as well as i could i then drew up the greatest part of what is here presented to publique view , and then to london i went with a full intent to printthe same , and and also to move for a rehearing of my case concerning the patent . about which makeing some inquiry , i found all things seemed to smile upon , and in order to obtain a rehearing , i went to the right honourable the earl of shaftsbury , then lord high chancellor of england , and without petition , bribe , or fee , was admitted to treat with his honour , who after several times discoursing the matter , was pleased to confirm what his majesty had gratiously granted unto me under the great seal of england ; but the cause of my not publishing this narrative at that time , i have truely declared in my epistle to the reader . thus part of my last dream being accomplished in such good success in my business of the patent , after i had applyed my self with diligence to make a discovery of the usurpers wickedness , why may i not rationally imagine , that no part of the rest will pass unfulfilled in its kinds , yet cannot i boast any certainty , nor dare pretend to divine revelations , acknowledging that what i have related were really dreams , but whereas this false apostle ( as i hinted before ) hath prophesied , saying to me at a time when i was not well in health , that if i would not be ruled by him , and decline the said business of the patent , i should not prosper in body nor estate , and to another , that i should not be able to subsist , or to that effect , my condition would be so strange : blessed and for ever blessed be the most high god , even the god of my salvation , i have found him a false prophet , and though at his instigation i was cast out by my pretended loveing , but deluded brethren , saying , let the lord be glorified , i comfortably hope , that be will appear to my joy , when they shall be ashamed , if. . . oh! what shall i say unto you , my most unkind , yet pretended tender loveing friends ! may i flatter you as your seducer hath done , whereby to engage you on my part ? no , i dare not , the matter is weighty ; a soul concern , and most dangerous it is to play with thunder-boults , and jest with things that are sharp and burning ? did you not believe , that what your pretended apostle with your consents hath done on earth , was also done in heaven ? i know that you did believe it , and yet how easily were you drawn to consent , to this horrible cruelty , though youhad no command for it ; why would you to that degree punish where no law was transgressed ? why would you condemn where no sin was proved ? as for my offending weak brethern , i have i suppose sufficiently proved that to be a meer pretence , and juggling stratagem to engage you to joyn and become ignorantly his instruments to accomplish his designe before resolved upon , and yet even in this i was ready and earnest to have given you satisfaction , if he like an enemy to peace and good order had not perpetually disturbed our reasoning together as aforesaid ; let not , i beseech you a fond veneration for him , or prejudice against me , any longer prevent your laying to heart , this act of rash cruelty , and your dealings equally unjust and unkind towards a person , who can with a good conscience say , that he hath been , and is still ready to be kind to you all , according to his duty ; consider i say , my beloved ! what was become not only of mercy and compassion , christian love and mutual pitty , but even of justice and common , right in that day when you condemn'd me , so that i could not find so much as a little heathenish equity ; i speak not this to insilt over , but to regain you and convince you of your condition , for whatever you may think , i cannot but believe , that without repentance for such unjust and uncharitable deeds , you must be in danger . and think not my friends , that i am such a son of belial that in a way of love , you may not without interruption speak unto me , for i can truely say i have longed for an opportunity to converse with you , so as the usurper be not present to disburb our friendly reasonings continually with his clamorous interposeings , nor should i after this manner have spent one hour in this work , had i not believed that it was indispensably my duty to endeavour by this means to make you senfible of your delusions ; and i pray god that it may prove effectual to that purpose , so that henceforth you may say of him , who like a seducer hath caused confusion and disorder , what have we to do with thee , ob ; full of all subtlety , &c. for untill you repent and acknowledg your acts of injustice , practised under pretence of authority , how shall you and i be reconciled , for my self i am always ready to do my part so far forth as it concerns me , declaring hereby , that upon the performance of your duties , i am as ready and willing to forgive the worst of you that hath hated me most , as you can be willing that i should ; but if you shall will fully neglect the means , and we be not reconciled , what will answer when god ariseth up , and in iudgment shall say , who hath required this offering or sacrifice at your hands : oh! forget not , vvhat manner of measure you have made , therefore if you expect mercy and pardon for your sins and trespasses , if you desire your iniquities to be covered with the imputation of the righteousness of jesvs , if you would find deliverance in distress , or grace to help in time of tryal , are you not in the exercise of your faith , to offer up your prayers and performances of your duties unto the lord as a means in order to obtain these mercies . but , my beloved ! when thus you do , then remember that obedience is better and more acceptable than such your sacrifice , and forget not to remember your own evil ways , and to consider vvhether your abused brother hath not ought against you , knowing that your prayers are unacceptable to the lord , until you have done your duty , that is to say , to be reconciled to your abused brother ; if you will not perform this your first work , or do not believe it your duty so to do ; tell me , i pray , how can you believe that you shall obtain mercy ; is not the case plain , he shall have judgment without mercy that hath shewed no mercy ; if therefore you believe the vvord of god , and that he will be as good as his vvord , have a care you add not sin to sin , but hast for reconciliation , that so the obstruction , which hinders the acceptation of your duties , may be removed out of the way . but there is yet one objection behind , for possibly you may say that he preacheth up holiness and godliness of life and conversation , and rebuketh , and admonished persons many times that are worthy of blame , and therefore we cannot but in charity judg the best of him , and accordingly must love him. to which i answer , that i know all this may be true , for the most counterfeit coyn is guilded all over , with some good mettal , and the greatest hypocrisy walks in a masque of sanctity , so is his lordly tyrannical authority , vailed with the fairest pretences of the greatest degree of love and humility ; i accuse him not , for those things which are good , but be not deceived , what if he had faith so as to remove mountains , suppose he gave all his goods to relieve the poor , or ( which is more than all that ) should he give his body to be burned , if he hath not charity , what will all this avail him ? and do you not know that true charity and solid honesty are both wanting ? are not all his plausible pretences like rotten wood in the dark , of more shew than substance ? a pharisaical holiness , like painted tombs , finely varnished over , but within , nothing but stench and putrefaction ; let not then shews and outsides , words , titles and gestures , deceive you , bring all his practises to the touchstone , compare all his motions with the sacred dyal , and weigh his pretended gold in the ballance of the sanctuary , but let neither superstition nor prejudice touch the scales . and let sound iudgment not your affections hold the ballance ; and then as you find him regard him , still remembring that the before mensioned wicked seducer hacket did express as great zeal for gods glory , as much care to reforms the church , and defend it against its adversaries , nor was there any one thing whereby he might shew himself famous omitted by him , nor doth your leader go beyond him in any respect ; but well do i know that he cannot be idle but will use all means just and unjust , to maintain his interest in your affections , but though he sould raise a thousand reasons , or if it were possible for him , to make fire come , down from heaven , in your sight , to make you believe that his practises are approved of by the lord on high , yet if they are not warranted , in scripture , let it signify no more to you than if he had a thousand leggs without ground to stand upon , for if he should venture to walk over the sea , notwithstanding all his leggs , he must sink to the bottome , so if his mighty reasons have not the word of god for their sure foundation , they cannot stand , but in a little time must sink into the bottomless pit , from whence he had them . nor think it , my friends , notwithstanding your great confidence , a thing impossible or incredible , that so many of you sould be mistaken , 't is no new thing for a congregation to be deluded and why may not you , as well as others , conceit , that you are rich , and have need of nothing ; and yet whilst you insult over others , and justifie your selves , take heed lest you appear in his presence , who seeth not as man seeth , wretched and miserable , poor , blind and naked . consider the state of the laodicean church ; and remember , that if your zeal for god be more then lukewarm , yet considering what you have done , you may perceive your zeal hath been much more servent for the adoration of your idol . be not overwise in your own conceits ; why should you who call your selves weak , think your selves wiser than those knowing and eminent brethren , who at london had the hearing of the matter , and though they knew not of half his devices , declared their dislike of his illegal practises ; asking him , how he dared to do such a thing , having not one vvord of god for it ? how can you now call me obstinate , because i will not conform , when your selves slight all admonition anb advice ; and rather then acknowledg your errors , will create a schism and division , so far as to contemn our city friends , and disown them . why should your envy , my brethren , be thus stirred up against me ? have i been such an one as have to your discredit , and the dishonour of the truth , which i have professed , lived in any notorious sins ? or have i through infirmities transgressed against my god , and refused to be reformed ? have i ever despised any orderly rebuke , ( if any such hath been given ) slighted any christian counsel , or cast admonition behind me ? have i not been careful to make good my place at the meeting to which i usually went , insomuch that some in time of persecution said , if they could but perswade me not to come , or were it not tor me , they would not spare you ? but by means of my constant being there , your meeting was never yet disturbed , whilst all those round about were visited , have i failed to supply your wants ? or came short of any one therein ? have i carried my self loftily to the meanest ? or would i not willingly be in peace with those , who without cause are my enemies , and envy my prosperity ? or can you think that i now neglect my business , and spend my time and labour , hereby to make a party , or for any self-ends to engage you to my self ? be not mistaken , my friends , it is the knowledg of your dangerous condition , into which you are betrayed , that moveth me to perform my duty of love unto you . these things , my beloved , according to what i believe i am bound to do , have i endeavored to lay before you , and all others whom it may concern , that it may , if possible , awaken and convince you , and that the iniquities before mentioned may not be laid to my charge for concealing thereof ; nor to the charge of the innocent , who do not allow of , but abhor the same . and now , whether you my deluded friends will hear , or whether you will forbear , i know not . but if the case should be with you , as it was with the church of god in the days of the prophet , who rebuked them for that they embraced idols : and you , through hardness of heart , and blindness eyes , should answer as they did , and say , there is no hope ; no , we have loved strangers , and after them we will go . yet i have discharged my conscience , and i hope done my duty to my ability ; which , i trust , may be-profitable to you and my self , and all read it , fea●ing the lord ; so as they in spirit and truth do serve and obey him according to his own word , which is the alone infallible and unerring rule . but if notwithstanding all i have said , and all the admonition , chrisian counsel , and advice of the faithful ministers and officers of the church of christ , you still persist in , and justifie your acts of vsurpation , oppression , tyranny , cruelty , &c. or shall endeavour to defend or excuse what hath been done by lyes , falshood , and deceit , or by refusing to testifie the truth of the case , then again must i say adieu to you , my dearly beloved , although deluded and unmerciful brethren , whom my soul mourneth for . adieu to you , who were my beloved ones ; and to him whom you have adored , and by your actions declare to be infalling ; i bid adieu for ever , unlesa he shall repent and acknowledg his vvickedness . finis . a modest detection of george keith's (miscalled) just vindication of his earnest expostulation published by him as a pretended answer to a late book of mine, entituled, some brief observations, &c. by e.p. penington, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a modest detection of george keith's (miscalled) just vindication of his earnest expostulation published by him as a pretended answer to a late book of mine, entituled, some brief observations, &c. by e.p. penington, edward, - . , [ ] p. printed and sold by t. sowle, near the meeting-house in white-hart-court in gracious-street, and at the bible in leaden-hall street, near the market, london : . e.p. = edward penington, whose name appears at the foot of p. . with two final advertisement leaves. a reply to: keith, george. a just vindication of my earnest expostulation, added to my book, called the antichrists and sadduces detected, &c. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng keith, george, ?- . -- just vindication of my earnest expostulation, added to my book, called the antichrists and sadduces detected, &c. quakers -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a modest detection of george keith's ( miscalled ) just vindication of his earnest expostulation : published by him as a pretended answer to a late book of mine , entituled , some brief observations , &c. by e. p. isa . . . for the bed is shorter , then that a man can stretch himself on it : and the covering narrower , then that he can wrap himself in it . london : printed and sold by t. sowle , near the meeting-house in white-hart-court in gracious-street , and at the bible in leaden-hall-street , near the market , . a modest detection of george keith 's ( miscalled ) just vindication of his earnest expostulation , &c. had i not by observation of past actions known george keith a little too well , i might have been induced to have thought , that the extravagancies of expressions , bitterness of words , and angry language , vented against those whom he calls a gang or sort of quakers , were only the product of a suddain angry fit , which in a more serene temper he would be ashamed of , but alas ! i find if i had so thought , i had been mistaken in the man , and consequently my opinion of him and his malicious work ; but too true , and that is , that his spleen is so swelled with the ill-will he bears us , that a common venting his passion wont ease him ; but as if not only intoxicated , but perfectly drunk therewith , he vomits out great floods of railing accusations ; and what is worse , still sucks in more , whereby he is so far from coming to his right mind ; as that he may be said to be continually inflamed therewith , and thereby hindred from seeing the deformity of it , and the inconveniencies it subjects him to , whence it is , that instead of being ashamed , he vindicates what any sober , moderate man ( i am perswaded ) cannot read with approbation . i confess his answering ( if his deserve that name ) my late small . treatise ; entituled , some brief observations upon george keith 's earnest expostulation , is no surprize upon me : for i did suppose , that he who declines answering an antagonist more considerable in every respect , to whom he is debtor for three books yet unanswered by him ; would fall upon me , if possible to nip me in the bud ; which is all of a piece with his answering caleb pusey of pennsilvania , who living at so great a distance , he might in probability not expect a reply in hast , not knowing ( 't is like ) that any body here would take up the cudgels against him on behalf of c. pusey . but as i therein consulted not with flesh and blood , nor entertained any reasonings in my mind concerning the arts , parts , or qualifications of the man , or my own meanness or inabilities for such a work : so now i must needs say , i do not find his performances in his reply to mine , so considerable as to render the piece unanswerable , but rather ( what he is pleased to term mine ) trifling exceptions , therefore i shall now betake my self to it . in my former , i taxed him with fondly imagining that he and he alone amongst the quakers had monopolized knowledge , and for proof thereof produced a paragraph out of a book entituled , a modest account , &c. p. . viz. if you serve george keith so , george keith will leave you , and then ye shall wander about for lack of knowledge , and shall not find it . brief observations , p. . this he now tells us , p. . is a lying story , an abominable falshood . i answer , he knows whence i had it , i reserred to book and page , which is more then he does in some of his stories , therefore i made it not ; but that it is false , we have only his bare denial now , and not so much before in his answer to the said book : he only says , antichrists and sadducees , p. . concerning some relations c. pusey gives in his modest account , most of which are absolutely false ( and that little that 's true , in any of them , is not fairly nor duly related ) should he not have told us which were , and which were not false ; and how far true , how far false ? however , upon the whole it is but his denial against the others affirmation ; which , whether the one would be guilty of forging a lying story without any ground , or the other of denying a real truth to save his credit ; as not being willing to be thought so presumptuously conceited of his own profound knowledge , and so undervaluingly slighting of others , must be left to every reader to judge as he sees occasion ; and in the mean time he must excuse me if i disbelieve him , and tell him in his own dialect to c. pusey , he hath brought nothing in disproof of it , but his own forseited credit . he proceeds , and this , and the like false accusations , are the best armour , these my adversaries have to fight against me . which is a gross abuse and proofless assertion , and as such i reject it ; the only reason of my producing it , being as an instance of his malice , which is one of my charges upon him , under which he is uneasie . what i charged upon him , brief observations , p. . relating to ' his imposing fond notions and unscriptural creeds , he will have to be no other then some of the great fundamentals of the christian religion , the denial whereof ( says he ) i have sufficiently proved them guilty of in the meeting at turners-hall , &c. i answer , he mistakes the point , i called not those fond notions , which he falsly accused us at turners-hall , with denying ; but i 'le tell him where he may find some that i call so ; viz. in truth advanced , from p. . to p. . likewise p. , , . and from p. , to p. . besides other places of that book , what they are he has been already told in part , in a book lately published , entituled keith against keith , from p. , to p. . and from p. , to p. . and so that labour saved me for the present . then what i call unscriptural creeds , i shall now tell him ; viz. articles of faith not delivered in scripture terms , imposed as a boundary , term and bond of vnion , which unless a person confess with his mouth in the hearing of some of his fellow-members , he is not to be owned as a member of the church , ( see the last of the ten articles ) and methinks g. keith should not call this a false charge , for the very ten articles themselves mentioned exact narrative , p. . are not in scripture language ( though whether right or wrong and wherein i wave at present ) and how far they were offered to be imposed is known to some ; and that himself refused to accept of a confession of faith drawn up in scripture phrase by the pennsylvanian friends himself hath acknowledged ; therefore my charge stands grounded upon a good bottom . besides , he 's too hasty to take it for granted , that what he said and alledged at turners-hall was sufficient proof ; i may as well tell him , his so called proofs were sufficiently disproved by t. ellwood in his answer to the narrative ; and shall have more ground for my so saying , than he for his ; 'till he reply thereto . in the next place he labours to palliate the contradictions i charged upon him , relating to the different characters ; given both of the episcopal clergy and dissenting ministers in his former books , to what he gives them in his expostulation ; but therein he useth such poor evasive shifts , as shew he is hard put to it : he would fain reconcile them , or at least seem so to do ; that 's his drift , he 's loath to have it thought that george contradicts keith ; but all his daubing won't serve , 't is untempered mortar he useth , that won't stick ; and so the crack becomes wider than it was before . i urged quotations out of three of his books , viz. . help in time of need. . way cast up . . presbyterian and independent visible churches , of these he takes notice only of the first ; saying , for which he citeth some passages in a book of mine , called ; help in time of need , printed above thirty years ago ; as if i had quoted nothing out of any other books of his upon this subject , but withal let him take notice that 's within these thirty three years ; consequently they either much changed for the better , or else he much for the worse since . now though i am at my liberty , to quote passages out of any book of his to disprove his following evasions ; yet that he may see his own weapon turned against himself , in this point now in debate i shall confine my self to this one book , having proof enough and to spare from thence , to drive him out of his subterfuges . he begins his matter thus , but none of these passages prove , that i did judge there were none among them all [ church of england and dissenters ] pious and learned , for indeed i was never so uncharitable . this man who will needs print books , had need to go to school to learn that from particulars to the vniversal , the consequence is not good . answ . what if he had not said they were universally bad , so as to include every individual ; yet i do affirm his words extend far beyond particulars , even to the generality ; yea to so great a majority as falls very little short of universal , as may be seen in help in time of need , p. , . where taxing the ministers with preaching up that then ( in . ) which they had preached down three or four years before ; adds , which breeds no small admiration to poor people , as if they had changed their god ; but i know well , generally they have kept their god all along very constantly , among all their changes , being such ( the apostle mentions ) generally , whose god is their belly , and this master they have served ; and do serve very faithfully , making every change answer its desire . here 's a charge upon ministers generally , which how consistent it is with true piety needs no comment . again , p. . now judas fell from his ministry ( as saith the scripture ) in selling his master ; which generally your ministers have done , and have they not thereby fallen from their ministry ; supposing , but not granting ; they had once been true ministers ; this is general again , as inconsistent with piety as the other ; but this is not all , see p. , . and were not the set forms of prayer cryed down also in scotland , as lifeless barren things ( and the service book denied ) and now ye have again licked up that vomit , and through your cities men set up ( mostly also scandalous in their conversations ) at such hours of the day or night to read a set form of prayer ? and is there any material difference between this and the service book ? and have not your brethren in england , taken it up again ? and when it 's offered to you to read , will ye not also do the like ? there is no question of it , but most of you will , and worse also when ye are put to tryal . again p. . and that whereon there is so much stress laid ; to wit , the calling of the people , or patrons , is not of god , but of babylon ; for in the state they are in , they will be loath ever to call a good man unto them ( supposing he could be found ) but such who will wink at their faults , and run with them thereinto . well to conclude this point , i shall give one instance more and that is in p. , . viz. and were it not for a livelyhood , and worldly honour and respect , would so many betake themselves to such a work ? and does not your gain from your quarter , which you so punctually exact ( and they that will not put into your mouths , ye prepare war against them ) and your removing from one parish to another , where ye can have a fatter stipend , manifestly prove ; ye are moved thereto , rather from a principle of covetousness , then from any desire of doing good to the souls of the people ? and how came many of you to be teachers ? was it not the design of your fathers and relations , who saw it a ready way for them to put you in a way of livelihood ; and sent you to schools to learn the calling ; as ever the shooemaker , or other tradesman past his apprentiship , and then becomes free to use the trade ? the thing is well known , and i speak it with regret ; and have not many of your selves some time a day intreated the lord , that he would send a purge , and put away out of his house such buyers and sellers ? and now the lord is come to make the purge , and who of you can abide the day of his coming ? the purge goes so deep , it 's like to scourge you all out of doors ; and e're you be put out , ye will rather hold in who are in , and seek to uphold one another , but ye shall all fall together . what saiest thou now reader , are these quotations a description of pious men , or the contrary ? do they refer to particulars only ? here 's in so many words , generally , mostly , a doubt whether a good man be to be found amongst them , and at last all , methinks that should be something a-kin to vniversal , and truly a little unlike his expostulation , which begins thus . it may seem strange , how it comes to pass , that while so many pious and learned men are judged to be found in this nation not only of the church of england , but among the dissenters and nonconformists , &c. now i am ready to conclude this contradictory to the former , and perhaps some others may do so too ; he would do well to undeceive us if he can . philosophy is the next point he goes upon , he tells us , what i said of the philosophy then taught , in the colledges of that nation , many learned and pious men in both nations , will assent to be true , to wit , the jesuit philosophy ; for that was it which was then taught , and which i learned almost word by word out of jesuit authors . answ . that jesuit philosophy was then and there taught , may be true for ought i know ; i have no reason to contradict him , but the question with me is , whether no other philosophy besides jesuit philosophy was then and there taught ? the place by me cited maketh no mention of jesuit philosophy , or distiction between one sort and another , only in general terms , the philosophy which is taught them is meer deceit and pedantry . but , to drive him out of his hole , i shall produce a passage in another part of the same book , which manifests what sort of philosophy he then meant , see p. , . viz. your fathers , the primitive protestants and reformers , made not latin , greek , and hebrew , and aristotle's logick and philosophy , with other humane learning , and the passing of so many years course at the colledge , and that you call school divinity , the qualifications of a minister of christ . now upon the whole i query , whether aristotle was a jesuit or no ? since 't was aristotle's philosophy it seems , that was taught at the colledges ; in short , i look upon it little better then a jesuitical evasion , which shews he has not quite forgot what he learnt , almost word for word . but , enough of this , he goes on p. . and since that time , both that colledge , and i suppose all other colledges in both nations , have changed that sort of philosophy , out of their dislike to it , as i my self had done before i was a quaker . answ . it may be so , for indeed i must confess he tells his reader p. . which even i came to see , when among them , and many of themselves see it , and confess it to be but vanity . but what then , it seems their changing of it is but labour in vain , all to no purpose , for he says ibid , and many among themselves have attempted the reformation of their so called philosophy , and squeezed their brains to find out a new one , but all in vain ; it shall never be found out till they come to the cross of christ , and under his cross , denying their own wisdom , become disciples of christ , &c. the reason he gives is , the invisible things of god , from the creation , of the world , are clearly seen , being understood by the things that are made , which carry upon them indeed the characters of infinite wisdom , goodness and power , but are a sealed book , no less then the scriptures , to such who are not come to the teachings of him , who made them , and who only can give an eye to read them with a true understanding , and to advantage . and this he testifies from his own experience and trial , who ( as he saith ) hath had a trial and experience of both the one and the other . now i would ask him , are they under these qualifications now ? if so , then my former question is answered , viz. are ye changed ? for it seems they were otherwise then , or else he falsely accused them : but if they were so then , and not exceedingly changed for the better now , in the abovementioned respects , then is he egregiously changed for the worse . but ( adds he ) what if i should blame the philosophy , that is now taught in all the colledges ? is there no other good learning , but that called philosophy ? he has but little learning that so argues . answ . i have little learning enough , i confess , yet i did not so argue , for i produced a quotation which includes colledge learning generally , and condemns it by the lump , without this distinction between philosophy and other learning , see brief observations , p. . viz. and i certainly know , that humane wisdom or learning taught in them , is one of the main bulwarks of antichrist against the revelation , and setting up the kingdom of christ in the earth , and because this is arising , and shall rise , down must the other go , and all who seek to uphold it , shall fall therewith , said g. keith , help in time of need , p. . in farther excuse of himself , he proceeds thus , viz. what i then said against schools and vniversities , was against the ill constitution , and great abuses in them , at that time ; but not against schools well and duly constituted , as neither was luther , whose authority i cited against them . answ . here he uses slight of hand , thereby to slip his neck out of the collar ; he changeth the terms from universities and colledges of philosophy , to schools and universities , and then in the next line , goes about to vindicate himself , as not being against schools , whereas i did not object that against him ( and by the way , i may tell him , neither are the quakers , for if they were , or had been , they would hardly have given him so large a sallary , as they did at philadelphia , for teaching school there ) but against the other , he is positive , without any exception as to constitution , and brings in luther to back him , see help in time of need , &c. p. , . viz. and away with the education of your youth , at universities and colledges of philosophy , so called ; i may say of them , which luther stuck not to call them in his day , that they were stews of antichrist . next ( adds he ) as to what i said concerning prelacy , and lording bishops ( for so i cautioned it ) in that book . neither doth this prove , that i did conclude there could be no pious bishops . answ . it is not here material , whether he did then allow , or yet allows , that some pious bishops have been , or yet are , but the hierarchy it self , he disapproved of , prelacy in general he disowned , not some particular bishops only , their ministry in general , not some particular ministers only of that communion , and that it was i then objected . i then shewed , that he called prelacy , a limb of antichrist ; therefore what particular persons he is now pleased to except , is but exceptions out of a general rule , therefore foreign to the matter . he farther called prelacy , that filthy thing set up in the land , which thousands ( of the presbyterians ) vowed to god against , and he upbraids them with , not bearing a suitable testimony against it , according to their very principles ; and says , we have kept our vow , and ye have shrunk there from , p. , . and p. . tells them , oh , ye did run well , who did hinder you ? but ye are become so foolish , who began in the spirit , to end in the flesh ; and now when ye got up upon the walls and bulwarks of your enemies buildings , and levelled it to the ground , when ye had rooted out prelacy , and the many corruptions and superstitions accompanying the same , and digged down a good part of babylons up-setting then ye betook your selves to build , &c. now hereby the reader may see that he slips the matter in controversie , from a disowning the whole order of prelates , as corrupt qua talis , he comes to granting there may be some among them , pious as men ; perhaps there may have been pious popes and cardinals too , as men : doth that infer , that the order and constitution of them is not antichristian . well , so much for the episcopal church government . now see what he says of the ministers of an inferiour degree , ordained according thereto , and their worship , p. , . part whereof i gave in my brief observations , but shall now be more large , which take as follows , viz. and ye ( said g. keith ) did well , in disowning and departing from such men , who gave themselves forth to be the lords ministers and servants , but they ran , and he sent them not , and their covetousness and ambition , and seeking how to please men for their own ends , and not his honour , nor any true zeal for him , set them on such a work , to lord it over the people , which he had forbidden , and it is abomination to him , together with the many things accompanying them , which they gave forth for his ordinances , good order , decency , and comeliness in the church , but were the meer inventions of men , and babylons golden cup of fornications , and that ye vomited up , and refused to drink of this cup , or to admit of such things as his ordinances , or belonging to his worship , or as if he allowed it ( whereby your iniquity is exceeding aggravated before god , and his indignation and jealousie burns as fire against you , for your returning thereto ) and because of the iniquity of such men , their pride , covetousness , tyranny , and ambition , his wrath kindled against them , and he poured contempt and desolation upon them , &c. well , for a close of this point , take another quotation , p. . viz. ye denied their lordships , and took to your selves masterships , ( both equally forbidden by christ ) ye would not suffer them to lord it over you , but ye would lord it over the people ; yea and did as tyrannically as ever the bishops had done ; and ye were offended at the surplices , and canonical coats and belts of their clergy , and yet ye were equally superstitious and vain in your black cloaths and gowns , with pasm●●●s and ribbons upon them , and other superfluity of naughtiness ; and ye were angry at their revenues being so great , and yet ye stept in also to many of them , ( and some of you had as much by the year as some of them ) and into their pride , covetousness , lightness , vanity , ambition , carelesness concerning the work of jesus christ , and the salvation of poor people ; whereof ye took up the charge , and many other iniquities they were found in , for which the lord was provoked against them , ye have taken as it were a succession of , and ye thought the lord should have winked at you , &c. here are a parcel of home strokes at both episcopal and presbyterian ministers of his own nation , and truly at that time i question not but he would have given the like character of both sorts in this nation . but how suits this i pray with the before cited passage in his expostulation , viz. it may seem strange , how it comes to pass , that while so many pious and learned men are judged to be found in this nation , not only of the church of england , but among the dissenters and nonconformists , &c. neither will his saying , for within a few lines , in that very page , i did own there were some bishops in queen mary's days , to whom the lord had regard , according to their faithfulness to what they saw ; excuse him , for to what he here alledgeth , he there added , but such who came after saw further into mistery babylon — so that herein ye have not only apostatized from your fathers , but from what ye were of late your selves . so that it seems he once accounted it apostacy to submit again to prelacy ; after having once forsaken it , and seen further , and i suppose at that time would have thought it some degree thereof , to have solicited a bishops favour against his then brethren , or to have appealed to a prelate in point of doctrine , though it can now go down very glibly , and why should he blame us for calling him an apostate , when as it was his own charge against the presbyterians , and that too not on the score of errours in fundamentals , but matters of church government , and method of worship , as the above specifies , whilst part of our charge upon him , is an alteration in principle and doctrine . he proceeds thus , by lording bishops , it is obvious , what i meant , even the same that is meant , pet. . . being lords over gods heritage . answ . what he meant by lording bishops , is plain , by his joyning it to prelates , viz. the hierarchy its self , who , as bishops have the title of lords , and as such sit in parliament , so that we have no other but such in these three kingdoms , and that that title of lord bishop hath been disrelished upon the account of its savouring too much of lording and lordship by all sorts of dissenters , be the men who go under those titles , lordly , or humble , or what they will , he cannot but know ; therefore , this is nothing but a weak come off : besides the text he quotes hath respect to elders in general , who feed the flock , which comprehends the whole ministry , without having any particular relation to bishops only , therefore unduly applied in this place . his reflection upon g. whitehead and w. penn , as more lordly then ever he found any of the bishops , either english or scottish , carries its answer along with it , viz. for by none of them was i ever excommunicated , but by the former i was excommunicated . — this quite blunts the edge of his charge against them , by shewing the ground thereof , viz. their having been concerned against him , and the motive thereto . viz. his spleen against them therefore . but his complaint of being excommunicated appears a false pretence to cover himself . he was justly reprehended and warned to repentance for his divisions and turbulent behaviour : this he has called a bull and excommunication , when he himself hath not spared to send out his furious bulls of excommunication and reproach in print against others , and by persisting in his turbulent unchristian spirit and behaviour , he has apparently excommunicated himself , and is gone out from our peaceable christian society . his book of retractations i shall speak something to by and by , so shall wave it here : and as to his recrimination of the quakers , in giving hard names , and passing hard censures , &c. i answer , when the quakers desire the help of the national or dissenting ministers against g. keith or any other of their oponents , it will be time enough then , either to retract or smooth them over , till then i intend not to concern my self about them : only thus much i shall say to his insinuation of uncharitableness , i believe ( and that upon good grounds too ) that their charity to all in general dissenting from them is greater than his . having done with their piety , he next takes a touch at their learning , and says , and that there are learned men among them , far beyond any stock of learning any of the quakers lay claim to , i suppose they will not gain say . answ . why truly i am ready to suppose so too ; but , why then doth he in his help in time of need , p. . bid the people put away this dead , lifeless , ignorant , prophane , scandalous ministry , and p. , . as quoted in my former say . for out of them comes this ignorant , scandalous ministry , ( which perhaps was as learned then , as now ) wherein they learn to talk of things they understand not , &c. is this suitable to the character he now gives of them ; let him reconcile these different epithets , 't is his work , not mine ; neither is it for him thereupon to insinuate , as if i undervalued their learning , which i do not , only am willing he should be filled with his own ways , and have enough of his self-contradictions thrown upon his back , till ( if possible ) he may be made ashamed of them . to my query , hath he ever retracted this ? he replies p. . i have both by word and writ , and is designed by me to be in print very shortly , retracted all the hard censures and names that i have at any time given to any , who have not deserved them . answ . is he conscious of having given hard censures and names to some who have not deserved them ? if not , his retractation is but formal and hypocritical . but if so , then say i , what he hath done by word and writ , i know not ; therefore not of any weight with me , and as to his designed print , it hath been often threatned , though not yet performed , so he still chargable therewith till that is done ; his retractations hitherto have been but very slender , as well as general ; therefore every particular hard censure or name till particularly retracted , as publickly as it was formerly fixed , he is as yet accountable for : moreover , he hath in this very passage , left himself a large latitude , whoever he thinks deserved his hard censures or names , must lie under them still , whether they do really deserve them or no ; so that by this means , he makes provision for being judge in his own cause . in short , when they come out , we shall see them ; and whether he will or no , every reader will judge as they see meet , and if not effectual , i suppose none of his opponents will ask his leave what censure to pass upon them ; nor yet , whether or no they shall expose their opinions in print , if thy think convenient . yet surely , from the above expression , whereby he lets us understand his purpose of retracting in print all undeserved charges , we may expect to see a recantation shortly ; i would therefore caution him to take the clergy-man's advice ; given him ( as i am informed ) at turners-hall , viz. to go through stitch with his work , and do it in earnest , lest by seeking to skin over the wound before 't is healed at the bottom , it break out again , and be worse than 't was before . he goes on , but what a base insinuation is it in them , that i would have any of the pious and learned of the several protestant professions , to become my journeymen to work under me ? is there any thing like this in my expostulation with them ? answ , i esteem him the master workman , who appoints others what work they shall do ; them the journeymen , who do as they are appointed , and that the tendency and drift of his expostulation is of this nature ; i refer to the book it self , only adding , though he hath no power of compulsion over any , yet if they don't do as he bids them , they are it seems , with him to lie under the reflection of coming short of the papists in zeal against anti-christian errours and heresies , and consequently hazard the falling under the weight of his high displeasure . and as idle is his pretence , that he hath not desired any of their assistance , whereas the natural tendency of such a work , could he persuade them to it , would be an easing of him of part of his load , by taking it upon their own shoulders , which he knows well enough , therefore doth but prevaricate in pretending the contrary . i now come to his cavils against the ten heads i treated of in my former , indigested matter , he is pleased to call them , indeed i perceive he cannot well digest them , they rise in his stomach , and many a sowr belch he rifts up , proceeding as i take it from the foulness of his stomach , and yet he hath only nibled at a bit here , and a bit there , generally omitting those parts where the stress of my observations lay , which , how becoming it is a man of his learning and pretensions , to a novice , idiot , &c. as he renders me , i leave the reader to judge . the meanness of my parts i aknowledge , yet had i as much as he , it would not become me to boast of them ; but , though i do grant my parts to be vastly inferiour to his , yet withal i must needs say , i should have been ashamed of so much sophistry as he is guilty of in that one sheet of paper : for though in scorn he calls me junior sophister , ( he would not take it well to be called a senior sophister ) yet if the signification thereof be , one who useth deceitful covers and false glosses , to make passages look otherwise than what the real purport and drift of them is , then is he egregiously guilty of sophistry , in this his miscalled just vindication , as ( god permitting ) i shall farther prove upon him before i have done . my first head was , his representing the quakers worse than papists , he saies of me , on this head he is guilty of gross vntruth , and falshood in two particulars , the one it seems is , that he doth not charge the quakers indefinitely , or vniversally , but a sort and gang of them . and then adds , if he be such an ideot , to make no distinction between a part , and the whole , how is he fit to print books . answ . if i would now lye upon the catch , i might put him to prove , that my words were of that extent , as to bear that construction he puts upon them , of vniversally or indefinitely , and likewise ask him , whether he meant vniversally and indefinitely , or only a sort and gang of them , when in his presbyterian and independent visible churches , p. . ( as quoted in my former ) he saies , all these [ episcopal , presbyterian , independent and baptists ] as well as others , are open and declared enemies to the holy spirit , &c. i might likewise tell him , though he know it well enough already , that in wriing or speaking , 't is no lye to entitle the whole , to what the majority does or saies . but i shall go farther , and require him to prove , that any meeting or body of people , who go under the name of quakers , those only excepted , who are gone off , as he , into a separation , do not own g. whitehead and w. penn in those doctrinal points he urged , and wherein he miserably misrepresented them at turners-hall , the th of the th month last , or else in this particular , i return his grossly abusive charge above-mentioned upon himself . i remember his friend tho. crisp , in his essay , guessing at the number of quakers in these three kingdoms , supposes them to be , whereof he reckons to be influenced by w. penn. now i would desire g. keith to inform me in his next , how many of the remaining who profess themselves quakers , own him , and then , i suppose , his company will look more like a gang , than the other ; for by t. crisp's own concession ( if he say true ) those influenced by w. penn may pass for the main body . i will next examine his second particular , and see whether they be not both of a piece , which is . that he makes me represent them , i so charge , absolutely worse then papists , when as i cautioned my words thus — vile errors , not only as bad as any popery , but much worse then the worst of popery , in divers respects . observe in divers respects : i said not absolutely , and in all respects , but in divers respects . answ . very well , i 'le allow him his full scope , he did not say absolutely in all respects , neither did i mention all matters in respect of which the papists differ from the quakers , but saies he , in divers respects , so i quoted him , what wrong have i done him ? wherein am i guilty of the gross vntruth and falshood , he charges upon me ? for my part , i can see none . this , he tells us , he can easily prove , and in proof thereof , goes about to answer one of my queries , viz. do we promote errours worse , then worshipping a piece of bread , as god ? he replies , i say that 's a transition from the subject of the controversie betwixt them and me , to another forreign subject , viz. transubstantiation . answ . he chargeth this gang of quakers ( as he calls them ) with promoting errours , not only as bad as any popery , but much worse then the worst of popery in divers respects . now i am ready to think , that most protestants will agree with me , that transubstantiation , adoration of images , praying to saints and angels , meritorious works , and purgatory , are not only popery ( that is principles wherein protestants dissent from papists ) but some of the worst of popery : now my queries were , do we promote errours worse than &c. mentioning all these former heads at large , denying his charge as not yet proved : therefore wherein he can prove this a transition , and transubstantiation , another foreign subject , unless he will be so kind to the papist's darling sacrament , as not to rank it amongst the worst of popery , or indeed allow it to be any popery at all , i see not . he proceeds , it seems this bold novice has not learned the maxim , words are to be understood according to the subject matter : if i say this is not one of these respects , wherein i have charged them , this junior sophister is at a nonplus . answ . hold a little george , not so fast , if transubstantiation say i , be any part of the worst of popery , then thou must shew in what respects the quakers hold errours , not only as bad , but much worse than it , and this i take to be according to the subject matter , call me what thou pleasest . in short , g. keith saith , our principles are much worse than the worst of popery , in divers respects , and he is offended with me , for taking him at his word ( who so seldom holds to it ) and reciting the worst of the papists principles , as if foreign from the matter . surely transubstantiation is none of the best : if he thinks 't is , let him apply himself in the next place to them , and see if they will trust him , and be at his beck , as he would have the pious and learned among the protestants be : well , in further vindication of his aforesaid affertion , he refers to his narrative , telling us , he has clearly proved , that g. whitehead has destroyed the true object of the christian faith and worship , &c. all which are so far from being clearly proved by him ; that his pretended proofs , are clearly disproved by t. ellwood , in his answer thereto , which , unless he had replied to , he might be ashamed to entitle the matters contained in his narrative , by so wrong a name . yet upon the foot of the aforesaid lame objections , he utters many foul reproaches against us , not worth the notice , and what is worse , i am satisfied , writes what he knows to be false , in his vilifying the light the quakers preach , and direct people to , as if that led them to vilifie and reproach the man christ jesus without them . therefore his insinuation that the quakers worship the devil within , thereby to prove them worse than the papists , who , he grants , worship a piece of bread without , is wholly proofless , groundless , envious in the highest degree , and such a slander as he might well be ashamed to impose upon the world. but to what a degree of hardness must this man be come , who can tax us , with adoring a false christ within , and setting up a false notion of light within , upon no other foundation , but misconstruction and wresting of sentences , pickt out of books , whereon he erects his fabrick of slanders and false accusations of his own inventing , not without knowledge , but contrary to his own certain knowledge . he says , he is sorry we give him this occasion to detect us ; alas ! poor man , he discovers himself , and hurts not us , the more he takes such work in hand , he does but encrease his burthen , whilst we being safe in the sanctuary of our own innocency , can appeal to the searcher of all hearts , concerning the falshood of his malicious charges , and commit our cause to him , who in due time , will ease us of this troublesom detractor , as he hath already of many of his predecessors . he slips over the rest of my queries , saving that about merits , and to that he says , i am sure most papists are more sound then some of them . answ . that 's more than he can be sure of , is he acquainted with most papists ? yet however it comes to pass , he is a little more modest than usual , than some of them , says he , but let us hear wherein some of them are less sound in this particular , than most papists , viz. whereas papists generally profess highly to value christs merits , and own their first justification to the merits of christ's obedience and righteousness without them : w. penn hath called this doctrine , a doctrine of devils , and an arm of the sea of corruption , deluging the whole world. answ . his charge against w. penn , i did intend to have passed over , as defective , because he mentions neither page nor book ( a way of managing controversie , unbecoming a schollar ) neither for some time , did i know where to find the passage he carps at , but having at length received information , where i might meet with it , accordingly i had recourse to the book , from whence he produceth it , and there find that g. keith hath much abused , and misrepresented w. penn : for whereas he states the case , as if christ's merits , and the owning men's first justification to the merit of christ's obedience and righteousness without them , was , by w. penn , called , a doctrine of devils , and an arm of the sea of corruption , deluging the whole world. he therein mistates the case , for the doctrine which he so called , was the attributing justification wholly to the works wrought by christ without us , so as thereby to exclude the works wrought by the spirit in us , from having any share therein , as plainly appears from the place referred to ( though not named ) by g. keith , viz. a serious apology , p. . wherein w. penn reciting an objection of one tho. jenner , viz. that we deny justification by the righteousness which christ hath fulfilled in his own person for us ( wholly without us ) and therefore deny the lord that bought us . he answers , and indeed this we deny , &c. now mark , the stress of his denial , lies upon his antagonist's word [ wholly ] whereupon w. penn argues thus , no man can be justified without faith ( says jenner . ) no man hath faith without works ( any more than a body without a spirit ( says james . ) therefore the works of righteousness , by the spirit of christ jesus , are necessary to justification . observe , he doth not say the works of the spirit are only necessary , thereby excluding the righteousness which christ fulfilled in his own person without us , but joins them together ; the works wrought without us , and the works wrought within us ; and calls that doctrine which would divide them , and attribute all wholly to the outward ; a doctrine of devils , which to manifest the more clearly , and thereby the more fully to detect g. keith's injustice and falshood : i shall give the reader another quotation out of the very next page of the same book , where explaining our faith concerning the father , son and holy spirit , in that part relating to the son ; he saith , who took upon him flesh , and was in the world , and in life , doctrine , miracles , death , resurrection , ascension , and mediation , perfectly did , and does continue to do the will of god ; to whose holy life , power mediation and blood , we only ascribe our sanctification , justification , redemption and perfect salvation . but besides g. keith his abusing and misrepresenting w. penn in the above-mentioned passage , i have another remark to make upon him , and that is , that the very same doctrine which w. penn in his aforenamed serious apology , called a doctrine of devils in t. jenner : g. keith in his postscript to the nature of christianity calls corrupt doctrine in r. gordon , see p. . of the said book , the title of that part is , some of robert gordon 's corrupt doctrines , and p. . the eighth head is , that redemption , justification were finished and compleated in the crucified body in christ for us , not in our persons . and the twelfth head , viz. that redemption , &c. and all things are wrought , purchased , &c. for us , without the help of any thing to be wrought in us . now if these are corrupt doctrines with g. keith now , which were so it seems with him , in . the time of the date of that book , is he not insincere in a high degree in quarrelling with w. penn for opposing the very same doctrine in the very same year ( his serious apology being likewise printed in . ) and on the other hand , if these doctrines be not corrupt , according to his opinion and judgment at this time , then doth he give himself the lye in this very paper of his now before me , p. , and . wherein he expresseth himself thus . but whereas they upbraid me again , and again , with contradicting my former doctrines and principles , as to articles of faith , i cannot find that they have proved it against me in one particular . of which more anon . well to conclude this matter , i shall tell him yet farther , that i know not of any quakers ; who do not ascribe remission of sins to that one offering upon the cross , through faith in the name of jesus christ , but if i understand any thing of the quakers principles , as i think i do ; that is one of them , and to prove that i speak not by rote , i will produce another author approved amongst them , viz. my father isaac penington to confirm what i say , as the reader may see in his treatise ; entituled , the flesh and blood of christ &c. p. . and of his works , part . p. . it was a spotless sacrifice of great value , and effectual for the remission of sins : and i do acknowledge humbly unto the lord , the remission of my sins thereby , and bless the lord for it , even for giving up his son to death for us all ; and giving all that believe in his name and power , to partake of remission through him . in my brief observations , p. . i produced a proof out of a brief narrative of the second meeting , &c of his self-contradiction in then saying , the whole protestant cause lieth at stake , in the defence whereof we with all true protestants , are concerned against the jesuites and baptists . and yet in his expostulation ; we promote vile errours worse than the worst of popery . this he shuffles off , saying p. . in vain are all his shuffling aggravations against me , upbraiding me with my being changed in my opinion , of what these quakers were ; and a little lower , i own it , they deceived me , they were the deceivers , and i was the deceived . answ . any intelligent reader may perceive , it was principles , and not persons he vindicated ; the cause , not parties he then espoused ; therefore this is only a sophistical turn , to serve a turn ; and his pretences to knowing them better , only a false gloss that he may abuse them the worse , and the cause of their changing their opinion of him ; is his changing sides , and now taking up the baptists old arguments against his quondam friends , which he once assisted them in baffling , and now wou'd insinuate a mistake in the men , and not in the principles , to hold up his credit of not being changed , whereas the men are the same , their principles the same , now he opposes them , as they were when he vindicated them , and he is the man that is changed , deviated , apostatized , and therefore an ill man , which hath been over and over proved upon him , and not disproved by him , any other way , than by a bare denial without demonstration , and so any farther proof at present needless . yet to shew the reader his former judgment of our principles , both as consonant with scripture ; and also with those of the first reformers , so far as theirs agreed with scripture : i shall add a quotation out of help in time of need , p. . viz. and now ye who accuse us ( in derision called quakers by you ) as apostates , and that we have denied our fore-fathers faith ; try your selves , and paralel your fathers principles and practices with your own , and also with ours ; and ye shall find ye are degenerated from them exceedingly , as we were while with you ; but through the grace of god are we recovered , and brought to witness the spirit and life of the primitive protestants and christians — and ye cannot instance to us one particular , wherein we dissent from them , warranted from the very letter of the scripture . the second head ( viz. his reflections upon the protestant clergy as more lukewarm , if they oppose not the quakers here , than the popish clergy at rome would be in such a case . ) he saith , hath nothing in it worth noticing but their unjust charging me with malice , both with respect to them , viz. that gang of quakers above mentioned , and with respect to such whom i directed my expostulation unto . answ . i wonder he counts any thing at all therein worth noticing , i know he hath a good opinion of his own doings , how malicious soever ; and truly i am ready to think reputes but few books besides his own , worth much notice ; those wrote against him , none at all : but in proof of what he calls their unjust charging , &c. he says nothing to the purpose , for after he hath used some circumlocution which i shall take notice of by and by , he slips off by the help of his sophistry , and to blind the matter , queries , but how doth he prove that i am malicious to the pious and learned in the church of england , or among the dissenters ? they and not he , nor his gang are a fit judge of this . am i malicious either to the one or the other , to tell them i would not have the papists out-do them in zeal for the christian faith ? is it not an evident argument of my love to them ? answ . i had proved how and wherein before , if he had but had the honesty to have took notice of it , but since by the legerdemain of these queries , he would cast a mist before his readers eyes ; i shall state the case anew . he quarrels with the quakers , prints book after book against them , at length they answer him ; he for a while answers them too , after a sort ; but finding their arguments begin to pinch him , his false coverings wherein he wrapt himself , like to be pulled off , he drops that method , appoints a meeting at turners-hall , summons some of them thither ; they perceiving his craft , that 't is only to shift off his shoulders the load their books had laid on , by evading their answers in print , under the notion of a general answer by word of mouth , refuse to appear , and pursue him in the press , thereupon he calls out to the pious and learned of the church of england and dissenters to employ some of their time and labour , to refute those vile errours , boldly ( as he says ) avowed and publickly broached among a gang and sort of quakers : what is this this less then calling for their assistance against the quakers , because he finds himself not sufficient of himself to go through with the cause he hath undertaken ; and what is the whole from the beginning to the end , but a series of malice against the quakers ? the argument he uses to these pious and learned , is this , i am confident if such anti-christian errours and heresies were but the tenth part so avowedly broached in the city of rome , or any where else in popish countries , these esteemed watchmen among them , would be more alarmed to oppose them by word and writing , than most among protestants do . is not this a malicious insinuation , as if protestants were more supine , careless , and less zealous for the true christian faith , than papists : and to what end i pray , but to make them as spightful as himself ? he goes on , which would seem to cast a reflection on the protestant churches , if some able men , &c. now here is not only a calling them out , awaking them as it were out of a sleep , as if they had been all this while slumbring , regardless what errours or heresies crept in , but that also under the pain and penalty , if they did not rouse up , of lying under the weight of his reflection . therefore , whether this was an argument of his love to them , or the contrary , i dare leave with the pious and learned to determine themselves . and now shall resume what i had before skipt to come at this passage , viz. their application of that place , in acts . . against me , is very abusive and shameless ; the jews cried , men of israel help . but against what ? against paul , and the worthy name of christ which he bore testimony to . did i make any such cry , to help against that worthy name , or any true professors of it , by my inviting them to oppose the vile errours that are contrary to it . answ . this is but a begging the question , that his antagonists are not true professors of the worthy name of christ is but gratis dictum , he says it , we deny it , affirmanti incumbit probatio ; he that affirms must prove ; therein he falls short ; we say there 's no such danger of any opposition to the worthy name of christ , by our promoting those doctrines which he calls vile errours , and insinuates us guilty of , so that 't is men of straw he fights against . but on the other hand , the application of this scripture belongs to him , on this account , those malicious jews who opposed the apostle , accused him of that which he was not guilty of , upon a false surmize , as may be seen in the following verse , and upon that foul mistake , stirred up the people against him , which how parallel it is with the state of the case between g. keith and us is apparently discernable , by an intelligent reader , who understands the state of the controversie between us . nex he endeavours to evade , but not disprove what i urged , in relation to his endeavours to stir up persecution against us , but doth it so lamely upon the foot of some idle excuses in his expostulation and narrative ; that , to retaliate him in his own language , i think it not worth the least regarding . the third head , ( viz. he chargable while a quaker , with what he reflects upon the quakers for , in relation to disputes ) he says , so far as it contains a false reflection on me , i shall not notice . answ . neither shall i notice his caling it a false reflection , any farther than to tell him , 't is but rarely , if ever , that he is brought to acknowledge any thing to be true that is alledged against him . but , adds he , in so far as it tells a most impudent untruth , with respect to the people called quakers ; i cannot omit it , for , whereas i have said , that many of their chiefest teachers , have with great boldness , provoked such as differed from them , to publick disputes . this he denieth to be true . answ . his charge of an impudent untruth , i retort back upon himself , for his assertion i neither affirmed , nor denied , but left him to prove , as my words themselves will plainly manifest ; see brief observations , p. . thus , that the quakers have with great boldness provoked to publick disputes , he says indeed , but doth not prove it . now , pray whose face has most brass in it ; mine for so saying , or his for falsly charging me . he goes on , but the colour they would put upon it , is that what they did , was to clear themselves , and to detect the abuses put on them ; as if they had been only on the defensive part , in all publick oppositions they made in congregations , and elsewhere ; whereas it is abundantly known , they were the first aggressors , &c. answ . i won't grant him an ace , but require proof of all that he says , and as to his referring to g. fox's journal and e. burroughs's collected treatises , they are large books , and what part of them he quarrels with i know not , therefore let him mention particulars , and then if i think it worth my while , he may perhaps hear farther from me . and since he has not enervated , but only shufled off the state of the case i laid down in my former ; i need say no more at present , then that it was too much truth to be denied , even by g. keith himself , though i 'le say that for him , he is a man very expert in that faculty . the fourth head ( viz. his itch to have you [ the pious and learned ] dance after his pipe , viz. challenge disputes with the quakers ) he tells us , contains nothing but repeated recriminations and reflections against him , already answered ; except in the latter part of it , &c. answ . as he says already answered , though i say only evaded , as the reader may see , if he please to be at the trouble of comparing the one with the other , yet what part of it he has already taken some small notice of , is already replied to , and so i shall follow him to the latter part , which he gives thus , they propose it , whether it would not be most equal and reasonable for them , viz. such to whom i have directed my expostulation , to begin with me , by calling me forth to a publick hearing upon my former books . to this i answer , that i am most willing they do , and what i cannot justly and safely defend of any passages in my former books , i will fairly retract . answ . a very fair proposal , so say , and so do , and so far we shall be agreed , but i am afraid , if it were to be put to the tryal , he would draw back , for i can tell him of one passage which i quoted in my former , and which for the remarkableness of it , i care not if i quote again , which he must retract in the first place , or else he can never be sincere in retracting the rest , viz. i know not any fundamental principle , nor indeed any one principle of the christian faith , that i have varied from , ever since i came among the quakers , which is about thirty three years ago , exact narrative p. . moreover in this very sheet , now before me , he says . but whereas they up-braid me again , and again , with contradicting my former doctrines and principles , as to articles of faith ; i cannot find that they have proved it against me in one particular . to which i answer , if he will shut his eyes , and will not see , who can help it ? or if he will be so partial in his own cause , as to resolve not to be convinced of it , let what proof will be offered , 't is his own fault . t. ellwood whath proved it upon him in three tracts , and that in more than one particular ; and his not having answered either of them , is sufficient ground to continue the charge upon him , taking it for granted , that if he could have done it fairly , he would , or if by any sophistical art , he could have neatly blinded it , he would not have been wanting in his endeavours . in the next place , in p. . he would fain persuade those to whom he directs his expostulation , that 't is most proper to begin with us first , because , says he , whatever just offence i have given to any of them , my late adversaries of that gang among the quakers have far exceeded me . answ . that is but his say so , whereof himself is no competent judge . and adds he , they have that which casts of ballance as to them , that they justifie all they have said , and printed against them to every tittle , to maintain their infallibility ; which i have not done , but in divers things i confess my mistakes , and wherein i have justly offended any , i humbly ask their forgiveness . answ . supposing , but not granting what he says to be true , have not those he applies himself to , the more need to begin with him first , that they may take him in the mind while he is in the mind , and bring him from lurking in bare generals to descend to particulars , and so try whether he be sincere in his protestations , by bringing him to a thorow recantation ; whereas , if the case be as he represents it with us , they must expect no such compliance from us , but a steddy adherence to our assertions , consequently , like to be a more tedious as well as a more difficult work ; therefore most prudence to begin with the easiest first , especially having to do with a slippery chapman , of whom they can have no assurance , that he will long continue in the same humour , though he were at present , never so much ( seemingly ) resolved , to be as good as his word . and as to the flout he throws at the quakers , concerning infallibility ; i shall add a passage out of help in time of need , to shew what he formerly asserted , as to the necessity of people's being led by the infallible spirit , see p. . therefore another head was set up in the church , then jesus christ , and the pope and his council was made judge to determine all controversies in religion , and no man was to look at an infallible judge ( the spirit of truth within him ) and are ye not become as bad , who openly affirm , that ye are not led by the infallible spirit , and consequently not by the spirit of god. my fifth head ( viz. his pretended tender compassion to the souls of people , highly insincere . ) and my sixth head ( viz. the irregularity of his proposal of disturbing our meetings , contrary to law ) he joins together as sufficiently answered in his narrative and expostulation , so that he sees not the least cause to say any thing unto them . answ . he has the prettiest faculty of answering matters beforehand , as a man shall likely hear of ; he has answered good part of my book it seems , before its self was in being ; 't is much he had not answered it all beforehand when his hand was in , yet here still comes in some buts and onlys that spoil his antecedent answers , and if it were not for these buts and onlys , he needed have wrote but two or three words in answer to the whole book , and have left it so to the readers consideration , as he doth now ; he says , only i take notice of the bold untruth he chargeth me with , of my proposing the disturbing of their meetings . answ . the untruth is his , not mine , as the words i then quoted will evince to rational men , which i shall again transcribe , viz. or if they continue to justifie them , to refute them openly in the face of their own meetings , and in the presence of them that do so much admire and follow them : his reason for promoting this work is , and thus to serve them , as they have served others , and with what measure they have met to others , the same to meet to them again : which he tells us a little before was , some of their teachers assaulted the national ministers in the face of their congregations . can any thing be plainer ? nor will his following excuse acquit him . viz. for i cautioned it exrresly , that what should be done to refute their vile errours , might be done at the end of their meetings , or at other set times . answ . i think a meeting cannot be properly said to be ended , unless the people disperse , but rather continued , however confusedly disturbed by such irregular practices . in the next place , how will his proposal of other set times , hold with the other of meeting to them as they have met to others , whom ( as he says ) they assaulted in the face of their congregations , will he say it was not during their worship , but at other times ; then say i , not in the face of their congregations ; if he say , it was in the face of their congregations , than how can he propose the quakers should have the same measure met to them , by others doing it to them at set times ; if he says true , in relation to their assaulting the national ministers in the face of their congregations . this is as poor , a confused , trifling , sleeveless excuse as can well be urged , 't will not help him off at all . now to shew what a man of order he is , though got to the sixth head ( having only named the fifth head for fashion-sake , medling no farther with it ) he recurs to the third , yet hath pretended to answer that before ; but since he hath foisted in this passage in this place , i must ( though contrary to method ) take notice of it here , 't is this . and , seeing they justifie what some of them did , by way of publick opposition , to clear themselves ; and to detect the abuses put upon them , and that they allow this to be equal and reasonable , and no trespass against the civil peace . answ . how far did i justifie it , but upon a point of necessity ? the mob were incensed by railing accusations , several of the quakers went in danger of their lives by them , these slanders were vented by the publick preachers from their pulpits , the mob divers times stirred up and encouraged by them : what room was here left for any other method ? what breach of the civil peace ? for that was broke before by their adversaries , a just detection of whom seemed a likely way to calm them ; consequently to preserve the civil peace . what might be acted at other times , wherein the above case was not plain and obvious , i leave , neither assenting to nor denying his charge ; and so neither do i justifie or condemn the actions , unless i knew better then i do the matters by him objected , but shall go on with him , who says farther . and that many , or rather indeed all of other professions do judge that the quakers have misrepresented them , and put abuses on them ; why should they not think it fair , that those of other professions , who think themselves injured by them in point of doctrine , should have freedom in publick to clear themselves . answ . they have had freedom , and have endeavoured it too , we look upon our selves abused by them ; we have had freedom in publick to clear our selves , and have done it too ; and that in the most publick way in the world , viz. in print , and that is according to his own concession , the last remedy against oppression , exact narrative , p. . and indeed a far more proper way than face to face by way of publick opposition ; whether at the beginning , middle , or end of meetings . and the same liberty hath he too , which he hath not only made use of formerly , but still doth when he pleaseth himself . the seventh head ( viz. his endeavours to excite the civil authority against us ) he represents as nothing but an unjust insinuation ; that , says he , i would excite the civil authority against them , and that i would fain instruct the civil authority , what their duty is in this case . but they bringing no proofs of their charge against me , it were a superfluous labour in me to answer them on this head. answ . he seems to be very cautious of bestowing superfluous labour , but if he had been so in reality ; he might either have forborn saying any thing at all ; or or else have offered something more to the purpose , for a sufficient proof i then brought , viz. his own words quoted out of his expostulation ; which i shall now repeat and are these . and it would be a commendable and praise worthy thing , for the civil authority to encourage such a practice [ to refute them openly in the face of their own meetings , &c. ] throughout the nation . now what he can make of this , but exciting the civil authority against us , therein to act contrary to an established act of parliament , as i observed before , brief observations , p. . for my part , i cannot tell , nor yet by what figure he can call the above no proof . he proceeds saying , i am very hopeful that as formerly i have had the countenance of some in civil authority , in my publick opposition to their vile errours , so i may have the like for the future . answ what countenance he had from some in authority , i presume proceeded from their want of a right knowledge of him and us too ; but this i can tell him , had those he summoned answered his challenge , there are some in authority would not have countenanced them ; but did disswade them from appearing , and were well pleased with them for taking their advice . their insinuation , adds he , p. . that such encouragement of any in the civil authority , would be a breach of an established act of parliament , is so silly and ignorant , that it deserves not the least consideration . answ . as silly and ignorant as it is , he were not best to try conclusions , in putting the proposed method in practice ; neither i suppose will the magistrates be in hast to run the venture of it , according to his solicitations , for ( doubtless ) they know better than either he or i , what the consequence thereof would be . but what would this vain man make of the act of parliament for liberty of conscience , a meer cypher ? or not so much , surely he thinks it may be served as boys serve nine-pins , set up to be thrown down again , so this made to be broke . the eighth head ( viz. his high opinion of himself , in setting up for directer , both of church and state , in methods to be used for the preservation of the true protestant religion ) he calls a bare fac'd calumny . doth ( saith he ) any honest man , that proposeth his humble opinion , what may be good for both the protestant religion , and state of the kingdom , deserve such an unworthy character ? answ . no not at all , by no means , but g. keith's proposal , is not his humble opinion only , but a positive direction , how and what they should do , as commendable and praise worthy : he saith not , i propose my humble opinion that &c. but it would be a commendable and praise worthy thing , &c. thereby implying , that if they do not so , they will neither do commendably nor praise worthily in that case , but should be dis-commended and dis-praised , as falling short of papists , in zeal for the christian faith ; and how far this method was like to prove destructive , rather than beneficial ( if practised ) to the true protestant religion , i then shewed , but he jumps over , as indeed he doth most of the most material points through that whole treatise , from the beginning to the end , so that i may truly say , he hath not answered it , so much as by halves , snapping at this , and snarling at the other , but going through little or nothing , as he should , which how meanly it looks in one of his qualifications , to so pitiful an antagonist , as he renders me , i need not determine , but shall refer that part to my reader , to think of it as he sees cause . as to what he objects concerning g. fox the elder , g. fox the younger , and e. burroughs , he is still in nubibus , only a fling and away , keeps in bare generals , comes to no particulars , and therefore not worthy ef notice . in my ninth head ( viz. his malice against our books ) i charged him with , being either grossly insincere in pretending it is far from him , to desire the least sufferings to come upon our persons or estates , or else very ignorant of the law in such cases ( viz. matters blasphemous and heretical , which he hath alledged our books contain ) which deeply affects both persons and estates , by imprisonments , fines and pillory , &c. to this , saith he , i answer . . were not by the same argument , they insincere or ignorant , who have charged , not only some of their brethren , but differing from them , in punctilio's of their church-government , and womens meetings , as in particular christopher taylor , his charging william rogers with high blasphemy , in a printed book of his , but also in charging with heresie and blasphemy , many of the ministry in the nation , reputed orthodox by civil authority . answ . his reflection upon c. taylor , will not do him any kindness , for 't is not paralel with the state of the case between him and us , for c. taylor dealt with w. rogers controversially only in writing , and by way of a religious reproof , and there left it , but did not appeal to the civil magistrate against him , no not at all ; he was so far from that , that he directed it to none but friends , as an epistle of caution to them . but on the other hand , g. keith proposed to have the pious and learned , &c. encouraged by the civil power , to question friends about blasphemy , heresie , &c. which would tend to a judicial and civil tryal and conviction , and so , if his attempts could take effect , bring them under the danger of the temporal laws . again g. keith says falsly , in assigning the difference between w. rogers and friends , to be a difference only in punctilio's of church-government : for had he read the book , and not resolved to close his eyes , he might see that w. rogers finds fault with our doctrine . preface , p. . and christian quaker , part . p. . and therefore in his second part , treats of doctrines , wherein he opposed his to ours , in many particulars . thirdly , if nothing of this kind could be offered , yet is recrimination of another , no just vindication of a man's self . if c. taylor had been culpable , and done amiss , that doth not justifie g. keith in doing evil. and now i think fit to take notice , and that once for all , of his unmanly dealing ; he , by way of dislike and reproach , mentions in several places of his vindication , g. fox , both elder and younger , e. burroughs and c. taylor , who are all dead , two of them ( i believe ) before himself went under the name of a quaker , the other two he esteemed as brethren , and seemed to be in unity with , while living , and yet he must now be digging up their graves , i would ask him , what hurt they have done him , since they were dead , that he cannot let them rest now , seeing while living , he had nothing to say against them ? he goes on to a dly , but must not their vile errours and heresies be opposed , and the authors of them witnessed against , and warning given against them , otherwise all that do so , must they be reckoned persecutors and malicious . answ . if he like the work , let him go on with it , no body hinders his printing , nor proposes to hinder it ; opposition in meetings by countenance , or authority , from the civil magistrate was the thing i found fault with . but let me tell him withal , it is not his calling this , that , or the other , errour and heresie , that will make it so ; and if he call things by their wrong names on purpose to render a people odious , that 's malice and a degree of persecution proceeding from a root of bitterness , and if encouraged will not cease 'till it come to fire and faggot , rack and gibbet . and if what he wrote above thirty years ago be worthy of credit , we are not a people deserving such reflections , fe● help in time of need , p. . and we the people of the lord , whom he hath formed for himself , shall shew forth his praise ; and the lord will make it manifest , that we are his ; and that he hath raised us up , and put his spirit in us ; and that he dwells in and among us , to all the kindreds and nations of the earth ; and they who will not see , shall see ; and be ashamed , and confounded for their envy at the people whom god hath blessed , and will bless for ever and ever , and no deceit nor violence shall prevail against them . now if he dare believe himself , had he not better desist from his fruitless and envious work he is carrying on against us , lest himself be confounded . i am now come to his objections against my tenth and last head , wherein he endeavours to evade the proofs i brought to evince , that , the case between our books , and his pennsylvania books , as stated by him , was far different . to my alledging , ' it was but common prudence , to hide the bone of contention , which he had prepared to throw in amongst us ; lest his quarrelsome books should infect some with the same spirit of discord here , as his quarrelsome discourses and behaviour , had infected some there . he answers , p. . thus , . had it not been more honesty in them , as well as christian prudence , to have disowned these gross errours , which i evidently proved against them in pennsylvania , out of their own letters and manuscripts , as well as by other proofs , then to have hid and cloaked them , and excommunicated me , for my faithful opposing them . answ . that ever those gross errours he exclaims against , were evidently proved against those he accuses , i never yet understood from any but himself , who is too much a party to be esteemed an unbyassed judge in his own cause how evident , or how lame the proofs were ; and upon the same bottom is his charge laid against those he accuseth of hiding and cloaking those errours he hints at : but that he was excommunicated ( as he terms it ) for his faithful opposing them , i deny ; the words of the paper by him called the nameless bull , being my warrant for so doing ; which are , that the said george keith is gone from the blessed unity of the peaceable spirit of our lord jesus christ , and hath thereby separated himself from the holy fellowship of the church of christ . whereby it appears , that 't was his turbulency in the opposition he made , whereby he manifested himself gone from unity with , and separated from the fellowship of the church , and gone from the peaceable spirit of christ ; so not a bare faithful opposing of what he deemed errours , that drew that judgment down upon him . for if he had in calmness and coolness objected what he esteemed erroneous , and managed his cause in a peaceable temper of mind ; until he were either convinced of his errour in so thinking of them , or by strength of argument offered in the spirit of meekness , he had convinced them that they really were in errour ; i presume that meeting would not have given forth that paper against him . he proceeds to a . but where is the far different case ? why they shouid suppress my books , and the civil authority should not suppress theirs answ . i then told him where , but since he takes no notice of it , shall tell him again , part of what i then offered . . we had right and title to such an authority over him and his books at that time , as a community or society amongst whom he then pretended membership ; and yet contrary to the method now long since practised amongst us , and which himself ( while himself ) had practised as well as others , published the said books without the approbation of those with whom we had fellowship , with an apparent design to leaven a faction for himself . . his were bought and paid for , and so became the real property of the purchasers , ours he proposes should be suppressed by the civil authority without mentioning so much as one word in the least of being paid for by the seizers , which is an invasion of property , and if therein he sees no difference , the reason must be , because he won't ; for the case is plain enough . again , why ? my books would have been a bone of contention , to infect some with the same spirit of discord . answ . that they have so been , notwithstanding the precaution used by purchasing all that could be got , by their being reprinted here by our old adversaries , and by their gratifying those two apostates , f. bugg , and t. crisp , setting them to scribling anew , and giving new life to their old contentious work , is so evident , that a man may as well deny the sun 's shining at noon-day , as deny that . he queries , but must not the truth be contended for ? are we not commanded to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints ? and such was the contentions of my books , and of my spirit . answ . this is but a begging the question , a taking for granted the thing in debate ; we say as well as he , that our books contend for the faith once delivered to the saints , therefore his contention against us groundless : who must determine this ? the impartial christian reader i think , therefore to him i leave it . he thinks , it seems , he hath the advantage , we the disadvantage , for my part , i can see no ground for such a supposition , but am contented he should hug himself with the fancy , if he will not be undeceived ; but let him have a care , lest while he compasses himself about with the sparks of his own kindling , in the end he do not lie down in sorrow . the rest of his reflections on this head , he spends in flinging contumelious reproaches on our books , which being nothing but recrimination without demonstation , and in substance answered already , as a weak blast of empty air , i pass over . he concludes with a passage he takes a long stride back to pick out of my sixth head ; i therein only gave him a gentle touch about the revolutions , but rubbing on a sore place , he cannot bear it ; i had perhaps slipt it over now , had he not committed a blunder unbecoming a man of his reading . i told him brief observations p. . it would almost tempt a man to conclude , if the doctrine of revolutions were as probable an hypothesis , as g. keith hath represented it to be , that the soul of erostratus were come again in this incendiary . having relation in that comparison to the man who set on fire the temple of diana at ephesus ( which was so rare a piece of workmanship , as to be reputed one of the wonders of the world ) with intent to perpetuate his name to posterity by a wicked deed , since he could not by virtuous actions , whose name was erostratus . to this he says , were i inclined to retort his idle story of erasistratus against me , &c. now upon examination i find that this erasistratus was a famous physician of aristotle's family , which how he came to overlook , i know not , but believe if i had been guilty of such a trip , he would have paid me off with the epithets of bold novice , ideot , junior sophister , &c. but now let us see what it is he could retort upon us , says he , i might say these my late adversaries . who place all upon the inward principle excluding the man christ jesus from being our saviour , are the old stoicks , epicureans , pelagian brittains redivive , and other ethnick philosophers , who bitterly opposed the christian faith. answ . i know no quakers guilty of this charge ; therefore the foundation of his retortion is a bare-fac'd calumny , for we place not all upon the inward principle , but what god hath joyned together , we dare not put asunder ; neither do we exclude the man christ jesus from being our saviour , but say that the man christ jesus , and the light within which proceeds from him , in whom the fulnessd wells , are one and not divided , and he as outwardly offered up and ascended into heaven , where he sits at the right hand of the majesty on high , and as inwardly revealed in the hearts of his true believers , is one compleat saviour : and wherein g. keith represents us to believe otherwise , he very well knows , he greatly slanders us , having himself often declared the contrary : whereof i have given many instances , but shall now add another out of the often already quoted book , viz. help in time of need , p. , . and now , whether ye will hear , or forbear ; this i do declare unto you , in the name and power , and authority of the living god , the day of the lord is of a truth broken forth among us , and ye shall look till your eyes fail you , and rot within your eye holes , e're ever ye see another day , or appearance of jesus christ to your comfort , then what we the people of the lord called quakers , do witness come , and yet more abundantly coming , and if ye will not hear , my soul shall mourn for you in secret places , and weep before the lord on your behalf . well , here 's a large testimony on the quakers behalf , therefore either he falsely accuseth us now , or else in he was guilty of transcendent presumption , in pretending to say as above , in the name , power and authority , of the living god , if it was not so , but quite otherwise . he concludes thus . but though they have not their souls , i am sure they have their heathenish , anti-christian principles . answ . this in substance is answered already , yet because he so often calls us anti-christs , and our principles anti-christian ; i shall not think much of my pains , to give the reader an account what he once accounted anti-christianism , and then leave it to the impartial to judge how far that affects us , help in time of need , p . this is the anti-christ , who denies christ the son , come thus in the revelation of himself in the heart ; for that coming of christ in his bodily appearance at jerusalem , anti-christ will not , does not deny it , being he knows it will never harm his kingdom ; so to confess him come , providing christs kingdom be not set up in the heart . now , upon the whole , as he said to the teachers , he directed his speech to , ibid. p. . ye could be better employed in holding a plow , or digging in a field , or any other honest occupation , then to be deluding poor people . so say i , he might be better employed in teaching scool , or any other honest occupation , then in thus villifying and abusing an honest people , and imposing that upon the world , as truth of which he is sure , when in the mean time he knows otherwise . one thing more ( though not so very material ) i shall take notice of before we part , and that is , in the management of his vindication and the objections he raises against my brief observations ; he sometimes uses the words they and their , sometimes he and his as if synonimous ; truly , if i did not conclude him to be a good grammarian , i might be ready to query , whether he took these pronouns to be all of a number ; but since his schollarship is not to be questioned at all , much less in so common a case as the first parts of the accidence taught school-boys , it argues confusion in him , and want of circumspection , both in penning and revising , and might have been better excused , had he been a novice , though a bold one , or an ideot either . i have now gone through his sheet , and cannot but here observe , to what a pass an ill cause brings a man , though qualified with arts , parts , and learning . that the heat of controversie ( the current whereof , i must needs tell him , hath run against him , let him bolster himself up with what bull-rushes he pleases ) should instigate him to pour out so virulent a peice as that expostulation , a plain indication that he is not led by the peaceable spirit of christ , but a froward , angry , revengeful spirit , and when laid open and proved plainly upon him , by matter of fact , without stretching or straining words or sentences ; rather then he will fall under reproof , or seem to be sensible , that in his passion he had over-shot himself , by lying still under a tacit acquiescing that he had so done ; disdaining , 't is like , that a young man of so inferiour qualifications should tell him his own ; must publish something in defence of a thing not at all defensible : which how it is performed , whether he hath not done it very slightly , without answering , or so much as touching some of the most material passages i urged against him , and whether this my rejoinder have not answered the whole substance of his ( so called ) just vindication , as it is not so proper for me to determine , so i shall again submit to the learned , pious , and judicious among all sorts of protestants , into whose hands these treatises may happen to light . edward penington . the end . books printed and sold by t. sowle , next to the meeting-house in white-hart-court , in gracious-street . and at the bible in leaden-hall-street , near the market , . an epistle to friends . briefly commemorating the gracious dealings of the lord with them ; and warning them to beware of that spirit of contention and division which hath appeared of late in george keith , and some sew others that join with him , who have made a breach and separation from friends in some parts of america . by thomas ellwood . price stitch'd d. the state of the case , briefly but impartially given , betwixt the people called quakers in pennsylvania , &c. in america , who remain in unity ; and george keith , with some few seduced by him into a separation from them . as also a just vindication of my self from the reproaches and abuses of those backsliders . by samuel jennings . price stitch'd d. a further discovery of that spirit of contention and division which hath of late appeared in george keith , &c. being a reply to two late . printed pieces of his , the one entituled , a loving epistle , &c. the other , a seasonable information , &c. wherein his cavils are answered , his falshood is laid open , and the guilt and blame of the breach and separation in america ; and of the reproach he hath brought upon truth and friends , by his late printed books are fixed faster on him . written by way of epistle , and recommended as a further warning to all friends . by thomas ellwood . price stitch'd is . truth defended , and the friends thereof cleared , from the false charges , foul reproaches , and envious cavils , cast upon it and them , by george keith ( an apostate from them ) in two books by him lately published ; the one being called , atrue copy of a paper given into the yearly meeting of the people called quakers , &c. the other , the pretended yearly meeting of the quakers , their nameless bull of excommunication , &c. both which books are herein answered , and his malice , injustice and folly , exposed . by thomas ellwood . price stitch'd s. an apostate exposed : or george keith contradicting himself and his brother bradford ; wherein their testimony to the christian faith of the people called quakers , is opposed to g. k's late pamphlet , stiled , gross error and hypocrisie detected . by john penington . price stitch'd d. a modest account from pennsylvania of the principal differences in point of doctrine , between george keith , and those of the people called quakers , from whom he separated ; shewing his great declension , and inconsistency with himself therein . recommended to the serious consideration of those who are turned aside , and joined in his schism . price stitch'd d. the people called quakers cleared by george keith , from the false doctrines charged upon them by g. keith ; and his self-contradictions laid open in the ensuing citations out of his books . by john penington . price stitch'd d. more work for george keith : being george keith's vindication of the people called quakers , as well in his part of the dispute held at wheelers-street , the sixteenth day of the eighth month , . as in his treatise against thomas hicks , and other baptists , with the rest of their confederate brethren at the barbican dispute , held at london the twenty eighth of the sixth month , . price stitch'd d. the quakers cleared from being apostates : or , the hammerer defeated , and proved an impostor . being an answer to a scurrilous pamphlet , falsly intituled , william penn and the quakers either apostates or impostors , subscribed trepidantium malleus . with a postscript , containing some reflections on a pamphlet , intituled , the spirit of quakerism , and the danger of their divine revelation laid open . by b. c. price stitch'd d. an answer to george keith's narrative of his proceedings at turners-hall , on the eleventh of the month called june , . wherein his charges against divers of the people called quakers ( both in that , and in another book of his , called , gross error and hypocrisie detected ) are fairly considered , examined , and refuted . by thomas ellwood . price s. d. keith against keith : or some more of george keith's contradictions and absurdities , collected out of his own books ( not yet retracted ) upon a review . together with a reply to george keith's late book , entituled , the antichrists and sadduces detected among a sort of quakers , &c. by john penington . price stitch'd d. some brief observations upon george keith's earnest expostulation , contained in a postscript to a late book of his , entituled , the antichrists and sadduces detected , &c. offered to the perusal of such as the said expostulation was recommended to . by e. p. price stitch'd d. a modest detection of george keith's ( miscalled ) just vindication of his earnest expostulation : published by him as a pretended answer to a late book of mine , entituled , some brief observations , &c. by e. p. price stitch'd d. no cross , no crown . a discourse shewing the nature and discipline of the holy cross of christ . by w. penn. in two parts . the fifth edition . price s. an address to protestants of all perswasions ; more especially the magistracy and clergy , for the promotion of virtue and charity . in two parts . by w. penn , a protestant . the second edition , corrected and enlarged . price bound s. d. an account of w. penn's travails in holland and germany , for the service of the gospel of christ , by way of journal . containing also divers letters and epistles writ to several great and eminent persons whilst there . the second impression , corrected by the author 's own copy , with some answers not before printed . price bound s. a brief account of the rise and progress of the people called quakers , in which their fundamental principle , doctrines , worship , ministry and discipline are plainly declared , to prevent the mistakes and perversions that ignorance and prejudice may make to abuse the credulous . with a summary relation of the former dispensations of god in the world , by way of introduction . by w. penn. price bound s. a call to christendom . by w. penn. price stitch'd d. tender counsel and advice , &c. by w. penn. price stitch'd d. the harmony of divine and heavenly doctrines , demonstrated in sundry declarations on variety of subjects . preached at the quakers meetings in london , by mr. w. penn , mr. g. whitehead , mr. s. waldenfield , mr. b. coole , taken in short-hand as it was delivered by them ; and now faithfully transcribed and published for the information of those who by reason of ignorance may have received a prejudice against them . by a lover of that people . price s. d. primitive christianity revived , in the faith and practice of the people called quakers . written , in testimony to the present dispensation of god , through them to the world : that prejudices may be removed , the simple informed , the well-enclined encouraged , and the truth and its innocent friends rightly represented . by w. penn. price s. rabshakeh rebuked , and his railing accusations refuted ; containing , i. some reflections upon a late sheet , entituled , an essay towards the allaying of george fox his spirit ; by way of introduction . ii. a reply to a later book , entituled , a discovery of the accursed thing , &c. enlarged ; both written by thomas crispe . iii. a display of some , amongst many , of his self-contradictions and tautologies ; by way of conclusion . by e. p. price stitch'd d. a diurnal speculum ; containing , i. a plain and easie method to find out those things that are most useful to be known yearly : and may serve as an almanack for thirty years ; and many other things suitable to the matter , &c. ii. an explanation of weights , money , and measures , both scriptural and usual , with sundry tables depending thereon , &c. iii. some remarks on england ; or a brief account of every county , with the names , and days of the markets , and the chief commodities therein , &c. the whole consisting of great variety , explained by divers examples , the like in all particulars not extant ; as by the contents does more at large appear . collected by j. b. price bound s. d. the spirit of the martyrs revived , in a brief compendious collection of the most remarkable passages and living testimonies of the true church , seed of god , and faithful martyrs in all ages . price s. d. the arraignment of popery ; being a collection taken out of the chronicles and other books of the state of the church in the primitive times . i. the state of the papists ; how long it was before the universal pope and mass was set up ; and the bringing in their rudiments , traditions , beads , images , purgatories , tythes and inquisitions . ii. a relation of their cruelties they acted after the pope got up , being worse than the turk and heathen : new rome proving like old. iii. what the people of england worshipped before they were christians . iv. to which is added , the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church . with several other things , very profitable for all that fear god to read , try and give judgment by the spirit of truth , against the worship of the beast and whore. price s. d. instructions for right spelling , and plain directions for reading and writing true english . with several delightful things , very useful and necessary , both for young and old to read and learn . price d. a new book for children to learn in . with many wholesome meditations for them to consider . with directions for true spelling . and the ground of true reading and writing of true english . price d. miscellania : or a collection of necessary , useful , and profitable tracts on variety of subjects , which for their excellency , and benefit of mankind , are compiled in one volume . by thomas tryon physiologus . price s. the end . a sober request to the quakers: published by jer. ives. ives, jeremiah, fl. - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing i estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a sober request to the quakers: published by jer. ives. ives, jeremiah, fl. - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed for f. smith at the elephant and castle in cornhil near the royal exchange, london : . caption title. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sober request to the quakers : published by jer ▪ ives . whereas i have lately charged you in a publick meeting , that you are no christians , and that your friends of the ministry are meer impostors ; which charge you have endeavoured to evade with various put-offs , alleaging that it was besides the business of the day ; which is manifestly false : for , was it not the business of the day to examine the charge against tho. hicks ? and was not this the first article in your written charge against him , that he writ a dialogue between a quaker and a christian ? now this being the first general article , what could be more material in order to his vindication than for him to prove ( or some one in his behalf , and the behalf of christianity it self ) that you are no christians , nor worthy to bear so venerable a name ? and if this be made manifest it can be no fault to oppose a quaker to a christian . but when i still inforced this charge , and by several motives pressed you to vindicate the honour of your profession , by responding to what i had objected against you . wil. pen stands up and makes a confession of his faith in scripture expressions , which while you declaredly own such books ( written by quakers ) as contain in them doctrines no way reconcilable to scipture-language , or christian-religion , but are destructive both of the one and the other , as i am ready to prove , it plainly shews that this confession was but a meer equivocation ( an old art of deceivers ; who by good words and fair speeches do the more effectually beguile the hearts of the simple and less wary hearers ) for , what if your discourses and confessions of faith be cloathed with scripture-language now more than formerly , this doth but render those confessions to be gross equivocations , unless you will renounce your former vile , absurd , and nonsensical opinions , which i proved to your face do make void all rules of christian faith and practice . and when by force of argument i had driven you to that strait that you could make no reply , and finding my self under some indisposition of body after nigh six hours discourse with three of you , i thought it advisable to quit the meeting ; which you making so ill an improvem●nt of , for want of better arguments will. pen crying out ( as if he had been among the boys in moor-fields ) they run , they run ; others of you report as if i ran from the charge , as being afraid or asham'd to own it : i say , your so base and insolent behaviour in my absence , who had nothing to the purpose to answer in my presence , gives me the occasion to let you know , that i am neither affraid nor ashamed to make full proof of what i have charged upon you , if you dare appoint a time and place for that purpose . and then appoint whom you will to dispute the matter with me ; provided none be admitted to speak but us two , unless it be to correct any disorders either in the disputants or auditors ; as also that a certain hour be agreed on for the beginning , and another for the ending of the disputation for that day ; and that neither party shall exceed the limites of that time so agreed on , unless it be by mutual consent . upon these terms i earnestly request a meeting with you to prove these two things against you . . that you are no christians , what ever you pretend . . that your friends of the ministry ( as you phrase it ) are impostors , false-prophets , and men of lying spirits . now if you shall not by all this be prevailed upon to meet according to this request , i hope you will not take it unkindly if i conclude , that you that talk so much of the light , care not how little you come at it , left your folly should be made manifest ; but if you take this for an unkind conclusion , i hope this will please you ( viz ) that what ever you say of me , i shall pray that god would convert you to christianity ; and subscribe my self , your friend , jer . jves . postscript . this meeting is desired to be distinct , without respect unto any meeting that shall be a greed on betwen tho. hicks , and you , touching the matters you have objected against him . published with allowance . london , printed for f. smith at the elephant and castle in cornhil near the royal exchange . . a declaration of the present sufferings of above . persons of the people of god (who are now in prison,) called quakers: with a briefe accompt of about . more ... together with the number of . persons who were imprisoned and persecuted until death. all which was delivered to tho. bampfield, then speaker of the parliament, on the sixth day of the second month, ... as also an accompt of some grounds and reasons, why for conscience sake we bear our testimony against divers customes and practices at this day in use amongst men. also a cry of great jndgement [sic] at hand upon the oppressors of the lords heritage, as received from him on the . day of the first month called march. with an offer to the parliament of our bodies, person for person to be imprisoned, for the redemption of our brethren, who are now in bonds for the testimony of jesus. burrough, edward, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a declaration of the present sufferings of above . persons of the people of god (who are now in prison,) called quakers: with a briefe accompt of about . more ... together with the number of . persons who were imprisoned and persecuted until death. all which was delivered to tho. bampfield, then speaker of the parliament, on the sixth day of the second month, ... as also an accompt of some grounds and reasons, why for conscience sake we bear our testimony against divers customes and practices at this day in use amongst men. also a cry of great jndgement [sic] at hand upon the oppressors of the lords heritage, as received from him on the . day of the first month called march. with an offer to the parliament of our bodies, person for person to be imprisoned, for the redemption of our brethren, who are now in bonds for the testimony of jesus. burrough, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for tho. simmons, at the bull and mouth, near aldersgate, london : . signed on e v, f v: e.b., i.e. edward burrough. the last leaf is blank. annotation on thomason copy: "april. ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng society of friends -- doctrines -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . persecution -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a declaration of the present sufferings of above . persons of the people of god (who are now in prison,) called quakers:: with a briefe burrough, edward c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the present sufferings of above . persons of the people of god ( who are now in prison , ) called qvakers : with a briefe accompt of above . more , being but a part of many more that have suffered within these six years last past , whose names and particular sufferings are not here set down . together with the number of . persons who were imprisoned and persecuted until death . all which was delivered to tho. bampfield , then speaker of the parliament , on the sixth day of the second month , . by which all people may be made sensible of the great oppressions of the innocent , and lay them to heart , that the judgments of the lord may be prevented , which otherwise will fall heavy upon the oppressors , and all that are at ease in the flesh , and unsensible of the day of jacobs troubles . as also an accompt of some grounds and reasons , why for conscience sake we bear our testimony against divers customes and practices at this day in use amongst men . also a cry of great judgement at hand upon the oppressors of the lords heritage , as received from him on the . day of the first month called march . with an offer to the parliament of our bodies , person for person to be imprisoned , for the redemption of our brethren , who are now in bonds for the testimony of jesus . london , printed for tho. simmons , at the bull and mouth , near aldersgate , . declaration of the present sufferings of above . persons of the people of god ( who are now in prison , ) called qvakers : with a briefe accompt of above . more being but a part of many more that have suffered within these six years last past , whose names and particular sufferings are not here set down . together with the number of . persons who were imprisoned and persecuted until death . that so all people may be made sensible of the great oppressions of the innocent , and lay them to heart , that the judgements of the lord may be prevented why otherwise will fall heavy upon the oppressors , and all that are at ease in the flesh and unsensible of the day of jacobs troubles . as also an accompt of some grounds and reasons why for conscience sake we bear our testimony against divers customes and practices at this day in use amongst men . also a cry of great judgement at hand upon the oppressors of the lords heritage , as received from him on the . day of the first moneth called march . london , printed for thomas simmons at the bull and mouth near aldersgate . . to the parliament of the common-wealth of england . being a declaration of the names , places and sufferings of such as now are in prison for speaking the truth in several places : for not paying tithes : for meeting together in the fear of god : for not swearing : for wearing their hats : for being accounted as vagrants : for visiting friends , and for things of the like nature , in all about . besides , imprisoned and persecuted till death . also a briefe narrative of the sufferings within the last six years , or thereabouts , of about . persons already returned , being but part of many more , whose names and sufferings are not yet returned ; all which is desired may be read and considered of by this parliament , that right-may be done . first , for speaking the truth in several places berk-shire . john evans cast into prison at redding for speaking to a priest at shaw near newberry . cambridge-shire . john norris of swasey committed to prison at cambridge for asking the priest of hardwick a question . william allen of okington for bidding the people ( after their evening sacrifice was ended ) to fear and tremble at the name of the lord , was committed to prison . canterbury . thomas pollard prisoner there for speaking in the steeple-house . cumberland . george wilson , prisoner at carlisle , and also matthew dickson at lampligh , for speaking to the priest . devon-shire . john roet , for bidding the people at the steeple-house at tiverton in devon to mind the truth of god , was cast into prison at tiverton , and sorely abused , and denied straw to lie on ; and they would not suffer friends to bring him provision , but still remains a prisoner . edward bradford for speaking to a priest now in prison at exon. essex . william monk of sanden , for going into the steeple-house , and asking the priest a question , was committed to prison . william allen , for exhorting people to repentance in the town-street of wetherfield , as he was going to a meeting , was committed to prison by dudly temple , justice so called , and hath remained prisoner above these six moneths . john claydon of hadstock , arrested at the sute of thomas wallis of that town for words pretended he should maliciously speak against him , and cast him into prison , where he hath been a prisoner four months . glocester-shire . deborah harding being moved of the lord to speak to joseph woodward priest , was forced out , and carried before thomas escot , one of the justices , and sent to prison . hamp-shire . ja. potter , committed to the common goal at winchester , by wil. whither ▪ and ric. kinsmell , called justces , for reading a paper in the steeple-house yard , and at the following assizes , was fined . l. by judge nicholas for wearing his hat when he was brought into court , for which he was sent back to prison , and hath been a prisoner twenty moneths , and so still remaines . henry streaters wife committed to prison by justice reynolds , for speaking some of the prophets words , to priest corbet , as he was traveling on the way ▪ who hath a young child sucking , the said justice reynolds giving charge to the goaler , that she should be kept close prisoner , not having the liberty of common whores , that have bastards ; but is constrained to a little bad rome , where eight more are kept close prisoners . kent . elizabeth fowler , cast into the dungeon in the common goal , at tenterden , for speaking ; in a steeple-house , where she hath been ten weeks , committed by the mayor without bail or mainprize , and there still remaines . northampton-shire . john rogers , for speaking to william sanderson priest of hindon , after he had done and was come out of the pulpet , was committed to prison by john brown caled justice , and hath been a prisoner thirteen weeks , and so continues . john green of bugbrook , was cast into the county goal by justice benson , so called , for speaking to benjamin tompkins priest of hartpoor , and hath been in prison seven weeks , and so remaines . suffolk . anne blakelin prisoner in bury edmonds for speaking to a priest at haveril , and hath been kept prisoner there two years . sussex . iohn snashhold , for speaking in the steeple-house hath been kept prisoner fourty eight weeks . nicholas beard , for speaking to the priest is prisoner there also . worcester-shire . iohn clemance of evisham , prisoner there for going to a steeple-house . westmerland . richard hebson , was imprisoned for speaking to a priest where he and others were cruelly beat and abused , by an unmerciful goal or of apleby , and richard hebson being put forth of prison very weak , and bruised , died presently after . westminster . elizabeth peacock , for saying without faith they could not please god , is imprisoned in the gatehouse , by john maid-stone from white hall . wales . edward stephens , prisoner in tregarran , for speaking in a steeple-house . james jones prisoner there , for going to the steeple-house with edward stephens . tobias hodge and dorcas erberry , prisoners in cardiff , for going into the steeple-house or speaking there . wilt-sheir . francis taylor , prisoner at salisbury , for speaking in a steeple-house there , and very badly used by the constables , and people there , and then imprisoned by the justices so called , and lies very sick . york-sheir . daniel thackeray , was sent to the house of correction at wakefield by john dawson and martin isles , for witnessing the kingdom of heaven to be within , and at leeds sessions fined xs . and afterwards sent to the castle at yorke , where he remains prisoner , by william fenton , john payton , and john dawson , and martin isles . besides , for going into steeple-houses , streets and markets , and speaking to rulers priests or people in the fear of the lord , either by testifying against the world , that the deeds thereof are evil , or exhorting to the fear of god , and amendment of life , the hireling teachers , and persecuting rulers have cast into prisons , holes , and dungeons , there to lie for many moneths , under blooddy goalers , and some till death , to the number of . secondly , for not paying tithes . berk-shire . leonard cole , had three horses taken from him , for s . tithes , one of which horses the said cole was bid l . s . for ; which horse they sold , but returned nothing again ; afterwards , the said leonard cole was arrested by the priest of arberfield near redding , and thrown into prison , where he still lies . buckingham-shire . george salter , imprisoned at alesbury for tithes , he refusing to swear to his answer , to the priest of hidgerlys bill of complaint . cornwall . loveday hambly of tregongeeves , was at the suit of priest upcott priest of austel , persecuted and cast into prison for tithes , and hath been a prisoner about nine moneths , notwithstanding the said upcott did a little before her imprisonment take from her the said loveday hambly , as many cattel as were worth l . and upwards , for l . pretended to be due for tithes ; and is now a prisoner for about s and p . it is to be noted , that this woman hath been one of the best friends that this priest hath had . john hambly , in prison at bodmin for tithes , by a priest . cambridg-shire . john smith the elder , imprisoned at cambridge castle , at the suit of john fydoe priest of hardwick , for tithes , by a warrant given under the hands of thomas sclater , and james tomason justices , so called . john smith the younger of hardwick , was at the suit of the said priest fydoe , and priest cudworth , imprisoned for tithes in cambridge castle , and there remains a prisoner . robert letchworth , now of chesterton , but formerly of soam , was for tithes cast into prison , by the priest of soam ; and there hath been a prisoner above twelve moneths , and so remains . canterbury . william mott , prisoner there for tithes . robert minter , prisoner there for tithes , and hath had ninety pounds worth of goods taken from him for tithes , besides his imprisonment . edward noakes , imprisoned for tithes , and had goods taken from him , to the value of l . for tithes . cumberland . john nicholson , was by richard hutton priest , cast into the goal at carlisle for tithes , where he yet remains . dorchester-goal . nicholas masters of bradford , was committed to dorchester prison the ninth moneth , at the suit of ellis harvey , an impropriator for tithes , and so continues . francis beaton of overcomto , was likewise committed to prison , at the suit of robert bartlett clerk , in a plea of debt , falsly so called , but it was because for conscience he could not pay tithes , and still remains a prisoner . nicholas stone , committed to sherborn bridewell , by john huskins recorder , and the bayliffs of the same burrough onely , for going to a steeple-house , and not speaking a word till the priest had made an end . essex . robert abbott of colen , arrested and cast into prison f●r not paying tithes to richard harlackenden , of that town , and hath been a prisoner about eleven moneths . john adams of hadstock , in prison for not paying tithes , by thomas wallis , and hath been a prisoner about four months . edward morrel of thaxstead , in colchester goal for tithes . widdow ball , and her son william ball , earrested and cast into prison for not paying tithes to john wright priest of that town , and have been prisoners ten weeks . thomas monkford of salem , in prison for not paying tithes to john cooper , and hath been a prisoner thirteen months . henry smith of salem , was cast into prison for not paying tithes to anthony maxey , and hath been a prisoner six weeks . anthony page of salem in prison for not paying tythes to iohn cooper an impropriator , and hath been a prisoner thirteen moneths . james potter of mark stane in prison for not paying tyths to william turner of the said town impropriator , and hath been a prisoner five weeks . fleet-london . alexander heblethwaite , james corny , and richard robinson , hav●●●en prisoners there two years . david hall hath been prisoner there one and twenty moneths . henry gill●●th been prisoner there six moneths . gerard roberts four moneths and upward . iohn lucas hath been prisoner . moneths , and . moneths in alisbury , and ●even moneths in the fleet . william glydwel hath been prisoner moneths , viz. . moneths in alisbury , and seven moneths in the fleet . william clater prisoner there . moneths , for tythes by a priest who carryed away his goods by cart-loads . andrew smith hath been prisoner first in colchester , and now in the fleet eighteen monethes . gloster shire . edward buden , and william peasly who made their personall appearance before the barons of the exchequer at the the suit of henry hen priest , and because for conscience sake they could not return their answer upon oath , a writ was issued forth against them , signed by georg raymond then high sheriff , by vertue whereof they were arrested and cast into glocester goal , and have remained prisoners a year and five moneths , for the value of tythes about twenty shilling●● piece . notwithstanding which , the priest henry hen did in the time of their imprisonment drive away three cows of the said edward buden , and six cows of the said william peasly , and remain prisoners still . francis pennel of awst is prisoner for tythes by reason of the said henry hen priest , and in the time of his imprisonment , nicholas ireland by a demise or grant from the said henry hen of the tythes , came with a wain and six men to fetch away loads of wheat , barly , and beans without any order of law or magistrate , and yet hath been a prisoner seventeen moneths and so remains . thomas beal at the suit of william benet priest of t●●ligh was for tythes cast into glocester goal , in which time the said priest bennet took away some of his corne and hay , the said priest being an officer in the late kings army , and the said thomas beal was in the service of the parliament both in england and ireland for divers years , the value of the tythes being but four shillings , and for which he hath been a prisoner . moneths . joseph tomlins , at the suit of robert wickens priest of toddenham , was cast into prison for tythes , and hath been there six moneths , and so still remaines . thomas white of hucklewait imprisoned fortythes at the suit of william bishop impropriator , and hath been a prisoner one year and ten months , and so remains , notwithstanding he is a poor man , and hath many children . henry lloyd and iohn cox , both prisoners in glocester goal for tythes pretended to be due to nicholas carey priest by the persecution of the priests servant . hartford-shire . george huckle , a poor old man living in hartford shire for denying to pay to thomas ridner priest of hitchin , offering mony , smoak money , and tythes of two years for ducks , turkeys , and a cow , was committed to prison , where he hath been a prisoner ten moneths , and so still remains , notwithstanding there is evidence under . mens hands from the parish where he dwelt ( sent to the late protector ) that the poor old man , hath not had nor kept any of those creatures these . years . nicholas lucas of trinn , for the value of three shillings tythes , was committed to harford gaol , and there remaines prisoner . huntington shire simon sanford for the value of three shillings & four pence tyths was by iohn manton priest of alcumburg subpoena'd to the exchequer who appeared in person , but his appearance could not be taken , so the priest got an attachment against him , by which he was cast into prison , where he hath been prisoner . moneths and so continues . thomas purchase by means of james bedford priest of blunsome was for tythes castinto prison the seventeenth day of the th . moneth , . and remains a prisoner still . hamp-shire . william baker and richard baker committed to prison by iohn hook called justice , for saying that the priest of bromsale was a robber and covetous , for taking a cow from robert beadle , which the priest had caused to be taken away for s . tythes , pretended to be due to him , but the cow was worth l . s . and hath been a prisoner . weeks , and still remains so , and iohn day had four cow ; taken from him worth l . and l . onely was for tythes to the priest . now let those that are moderate consider who is the offender . ann potter imprisoned by priest bental in chegny court prison for tythes . and richard dean imprisoned at the same time for tythes . lincolne-shire . thomas brumby of fillingham , a poor old man , having a wife and many children , was committed to prison about the th . day of the . moneth . for about s . tythes at the suit of ralph hollingworth priest of fillingham , yet the writ names neither priest nor tythes , by the tenor of the writ his body should have been had before the barons of the exchequer , from the day called st. michaels weeks , to have answered the late protector of divers trespasses , contempts and offences ; but the poor old man hath suffered weeks imprisonment , and still remaines a prisoner by the meanes of this priest ; which contemps , trespasses and offences were , for not paying the priests tythes . edmond wolsy was committed to prison the day of the moneth called february , at the suit of francis ball of sibsey for tythes , this persecutor is no priest but an impropriator as is supposed , who hath kept this poor man in prison . weeks , who is now dead . iohn pidd , richard pidd , and arnald trueblood all of beckingham were upon the th . day of the . moneth . committed to goal for tythes , at the suit of georg farthing , lately houshold servant to joseph thurlsone priest of beckingham , the man pretends the priest let him a lease of the tythes of those people called quakers , two of which do still remain prisoners . and arnold trueblood since dyed in the pit of the said goal among fellons . lanca-shire . oliver atherton in prison hath been three moneths by the means of the countesse , so called , of darby for privy tythes under twenty shillings , and the servant of the said countesse hath taken from him l . worth of corne , and given no account . norfolk . william barber committed to norwich-castel for tythes and there remaines . northampton-shire edward roberts at the suit of lyonel godrick priest hath been in prison for tythes one year and two moneths , and the said priest did take from the said edward roberts four horses worth l . for tythes valued at three pounds , and yet notwithstanding he remains a prisoner , to the destroying and undoing of him , his wife and family , and the said priest told him to his face , it was pitty that he , and such as he should live in a common-wealth . peter makerness of findon sued for tythes by william downer impropriator , into the exchequer and because for conscience sake he could not swear to his answer , was committed to the county prison , and hath been there six moneths , and still remaines nottingham-shire . william smith in prison in that county for tythes at the suite of william pocklington farmer of tythes . oxford-shire . alexander harris imprisoned by william browne priest for the value of s . tythes , and hath been a prisoner twelve moneths , and so remaines . william cole of chalbury sued by the same priest for s . d . tythes , and cast into prison , where he hath been kept a year and ten moneths . thomas french of chippingnorton by the meanes of william norton tythe renter , was served up to london by a writ , for the value of s . tythes , and the said norton served those servants that were hired to carry in the corne , with a subpoena , and made them pay eleven shillings six pence , and cast two into prison where they have been nine moneths , and there still remains . suffolk . thomas jude hath been a prisoner in bury edmonds for tythes above twelve moneths , and so is kept . also richard white , and john easling are prisoners in ipswich for tythes . sussex . robert adams , and richard pratt have been prisoners in horsham goal one year for tythes . sommerset-shire . william serjeant , geo. taylor , and john dogget are prisoners in ivelchester goal for tythes . samuel clothier , henry clothier , and thomas lockier have been prisoners in the said goal for tythes these . moneths . thomas loscomb , and henry moore are prisoners there for tythes . william vinent , and john langden have been prisoners there for tythes six moneths . upper-bench-prison . john pollard at the suit of benjamin maddock a pretender to the tythes , cast into prison about the . of the . moneth ( ) he having been a prisoner in colchester for tythes twelve moneths before . warwick-shire . thomas palmer , william mans , and richard mills were sub-poena'd at the suit of john dyke ( an ejected priest for his wicked course of life ) to appear before the barrons of the exchequer for tythes valued at s . pretended to be due to the said priest , and they appeared accordingly , but their appearance could not be received , and so were cast into prison . steps in the dungeon for a contempt , because they could not for conscience sake swear to their answer . thomas palmer hath been in prison . weekes and william mans . weeks , and still are prisoners . wilt-shire . john fry sued in the upper bench , and the exchequer by john menlas priest of gumfield , who never demanded ought of him , and was cast into prison at fisherton-anger near sarum , by richard lovel , and walter thomas , they having the warrant of isaac burgess sheriffe of wiltshire so to do , where they have been kept from the . day of the . moneth ( ) to this day . richard ast sometime of collerne in wiltshire imprisoned at fisherton-anger at the suit of george marshal priest and thomas harris impropriator for the value of two or three and thirty shillings , and hath been a prisoner . weeks and more , notwithstanding they caused his corn to be taken out of his house and field before his imprisonment . also priest monlas caused to be taken from the said john fry goods to the value of twelve pounds and more before he was imprisoned . john jay who is also a prisoner there hath sent an accompt of his sufferings . york-shire . james tenant sued in the exchequer by the farmer of tythes , and because he could not for conscience sake swear to his answer , was committed to prison , where he hath been . weekes and so continues . robert mainford at the suit of charles kame priest hath been in prison for tythes eight moneths . matthew major and john ellis imprisoned at the suit of francis swayne priest have been prisoners . weeks and so remains . stephen lorimore imprisoned at the suit of richard sherborn for some small tythes , and hath been a prisoner two years , and still remaines so , committed to prison by thomas harison sheriff . salop . edward ward , for about s . tythes had a yoke of oxen taken away from him worth about l . by edward lawrance priest of shrewsbury . besides for not paying tythes ( to the upholding of priests who do not work for them ) there have been imprisoned to the number of . and moreover ● . persons suffered the spoiling of their goods , because for conscience sake they could not pay tythes , the value of tythes demanded amounted to . l. s . . d. for which they took of their goods to the value of some thousands of pounds . for meeting together in the fear of god on the first dayes . george harrison violently taken out of apelties house who is a friend in heverall by a rude multitude of the town , and cruelly bruised in the street till he did spit blood , who a short time after dyed , having never in his life time recovered from the hurt he then received . dorchester-goale . lore bag the wife of richard bag , and her son thomas bag , and three of her daughters sarah , mary , and abigal bag , all of one town living in brideport , and of one family , were by nicholas sampson and robert prince bayliffs , for coming from a meeting about a bow shoot from the place where they dwelt , committed to prison , pretending they committed them for being wanderers , and because they would not give them s . d . a piece ; and after were called to sessions , where thomas bag was fined by the recorder thirteen shillings four pence , because he wore his hat in the court , and because ( for conscience sake , knowing they had broke no law ) could not give them two shillings six pence a piece for coming from the meeting , and thirteen shillings and foure pence for thomas bags wearing of his hat , were all sent back to prison again , where they have been sixteen weeks , and still remaines prisoners , lore bag being above threescore yeares old , and her husband richard bag a mercer driving a trade ; so his whole family is taken from him to their great losse and hinderance . yorkeshire . andrew hawkes commited to prison by thomas dickison called justice , for not prosecuting a warrant which came from the said dickison against several persons therein named , which was for no other cause , but for meeting together peaceably the first day of the week to wait upon the lord ; and the said hawkes hath lay●n in prison eleven moneths and have not been brought to any tryal , and still remains prisoner . henry vbanck thomas thackray , and christopher thackray & thomas docker were taken forth at a meeting in leeds and sent to prison by iohn dauson and martin isles , and at the sessions there fined twenty shillings a peece , and afterwards sent to york castle where they remain prisoners . besides for meeting together in the fear of god on the first day of the week , and denying the steeple-house worship , there have been imprisoned one hundred sixty five persons , and moreover for going to godly and christian meetings on the said day , . persons hath had twenty eight horses , and other goods taken and sold and nothing returned again , which horses have been valued at one hundred thirty six pounds twelve shillings . fourthly , for not swearing , and wearing their hats . buckingham-shire . george salter , imprisoned at alesbury for tithes , he refusing to swear to his answer , to the priest of hidgerlys bill of complaint . dorchester goal . bartholomew logg was fined s . and pence , by john hoskins , for wearing his hatt , and for not payment thereof was committed to prison , where he hath been fourteen weeks , and still remains a prisoner . thomas bagg was fined by the recorder s . and pence , because he wore his hatt in the court , and because for conscience sake ( knowing he had broke no law ) could not give it them , was sent to prison , where he hath been sixteen weeks , and still remains there . glouceter-shire . edward buden and william peasly , who made their personal appearance before the barons of the exchequer , at the suit of henry hen priest , and because for conscience sake they could not return their answer upon oath , a writ was sued forth against them , signed by george raymond , then high sheriff , by vertue whereof they were arrested , and cast into glocester goal , and have remained prisoners a year and moneths , for the value of tithes about s . a piece , notwithstanding which , the priest henry hen did in the time of their imprisonment , drive away cows of the said edw. buden ▪ and cows of the said will . peasly , and remain prisoners still . hamp-shire . james potter , committed to the common goal at winchester , by william whither , and richard kinsmill , called justices , for reading a paper at the steeple-house yard ; and at the following assizes was fined l . by judge nicholas , for wearing his hatt when he was brought into the court , for which he was sent back to prison , and hath been a prisoner there moneths , and so still remains . norfolk . william king , committed to norwich castle , for refusing to swear , and was fined s . by judge baldock , for refusing to do service for his countrey , but by yea and nay , and there remains . northampton-shire . peter mackerness of findon , sued for tithes , by william downer impropriator , into the exchequer , and because for conscience sake he could not swear , was committed to the county prison , and hath been there six moneths , and still remains there . suffolk . george sherwing , for not swearing to his answer to a bill at the suit of the lady gandee , for tithes , was committed to milton gaol , by an attachment from baron nicholas , and hath been there years . wales . howell jones , prisoner in tregarran , for not putting off his hatt . york-shire . james tenant , sued in the exchequer , by a farmer of tithes , and because he could not for conscience sake swear to his answer , was committed to prison , where he hath been weeks , and so continues . john hall was taken forth of a meeting in woodstock in leeds parish , and because he refused to swear , was sent to prison , by william fenton , and martin isles , they pretending he was a jesuite , and still remains prisoner in york castle . besides , for not swearing , and wearing their hatts , imprisoned persons ; and persons for not swearing in their courts have had goods taken from them to the value of about l . s . fifthly , vnder pretence of being vagrants . hamp-shire . anthony millage , who was formerly a captain of a frigot , was as a vagrant committed to prison with hunphery smith , to the common goal of winchester , by john bunkley , called justice , for no other cause at all , but for being in his company , and hath been a prisoner ten moneths . william bayly was also committed by the aforesaid john bunkley , without any accusation laid against him , but for being in the company with humphrey smith , ( from the parish where he was born ) as a vagrant , and hath been a prisoner ten moneths , and so remaines . besides , cruelly whipped , and counted as vagrants and wanderers , though men of considerable estates , . persons . sixthly , for visiting friends in prisons . dorchester-goal . william ellet the younger commited to prison , by nicolas sampson ; and robert prince baylifs of brideport , onely , for standing peaceably in the street , when george buly was examined , and hath been a prisoner there weeks and so remaines . besides , for visiting of their friends in prison , imprisoned . persons , also two persons onely for entertaining their friends according to the command , to entertain strangers , were imprisoned , and had four horses taken from them worth about pounds . seventhly , for not repairing of steeple-houses , and not paying clerkes wages . one hundred fourty one persons , for the repair of steeple-houses , and clerks-wages , had demanded of them . l. . s. . pence , for which was taken from them to the value of about . pounds . shillings , and pence in goods . eightly , imprisoned , and persecuted till death . cambridge . boniface norris , being neer four-score years of age , as he was riding to a meeting , was sorely beaten and bruised , and fined . shillings for going to the meeting , and afterwards imprisoned by dudly pope called a justice , and a week after he was let out of prison , died . durham . george humble , an aged man , for standing by some of his neighbours whom george lilburn had set in the stocks for speaking to a priest , the said humble standing by , and reproving the people , was for that sent to prison to durham by the said lilburn , where he was kept until death . devon-shire . jane ingram , for going to visit some friends who were cast into prison , and lay upon straw at doomes-dale in lanceston in cornwal , was by jo . champion justice so called , cast into prison at exeter , and there kept in prison upon straw till she dyed . lanca-shire . richard apener , was imprisoned till death for tythes , by priest shaw of oldingham , who also spoiled his goods , and made havock of many more . as some friends in lancashire were comming from a meeting , they meet with a priest upon the high way , and others with him , to whom one elizabeth leavens spake a few words , whereupon the priests party got hedg-staves and beat the friends , amongst whom a woman great with child , was sorely beaten on the breast , and so sorely bruised , that she presently fell sick , and with much adoe got home , and within two or three dayes after died . bristol . temperance hignel , being moved of the lord to go to a steeple-house in bristol , to speak to jacob brint priest , after he had ended , was knockt down in the steeple-house to the astonishing of her sences , and sorely beaten and bruised , her blood drawn , and her cloaths torn off from her back in the steeple-house , and then cast into prison , and being afterwards carried out in a basket sick , within two or three dayes after she died . also george harrison imprisoned there till death . lincolnshire . edmond wolsey imprisoned for tythes until death . also thomas bromby imprisoned until death , for about . s. tythes . glocester-shire . richard atwood , for shillings tithes , was imprisoned till death by richard fowler priest . essex . james parnel for speaking in cogges-hall steeple-house , on a fast day was imprisoned until death , by herbert pelham , thomas cook , dionysius wakering , and william harlackenden , and before he dyed was most cruelly , and barbarously used by the goalers wife . norfolk . robert jacob of windham , being four score years of age , imprisoned till death , being first cast into prison for not swearing to be a constable , and released , but afterward cast into prison again for tythes , and for refusing to swear to his answer , he was kept prisoner till death . oxford . elizabeth fletcher a young woman , was by the schollers of oxford for speaking the word of the lord to them , thrown against a grave-stone , and into a grave , and drawn through a pool with ropes , and pumpt ; which usage she said before her death she should never recover , but carry to her grave , and accordingly by reason of that usage she died . suffolk . john cason , imprisoned for tithes till death , at the suit of john padgett the priest of aldham , and also by priest glaufield , and before his death was barbarously and cruelly used by the goaler . summer set-shire . william tucker of naylsey imprisoned till death , by thomas george priest . york-shire . william peers , and will . sykes , imprisoned till death for tithes . john sumerson imprisoned till death for tithes , having first been prisoner two years . matthew wilkinson imprisoned till death for tithes , in pickering castle , because he could not swear to his answer to the priests bill . william wilkenson of rosedal● , for not paying tithes to john mason of middleton an impropriator , was sued in the court of exchequer , and for not swearing to his answer , was cast into prison in pickering castle , where he remained a prisoner near a year , and then died in prison . westmoreland . richard hebson aforementioned , cruelly used by the goaler of apelby , died . in all imprisoned , and persecuted to death , . ninethly , imprisoned for things of several natures . berk-shire . leonard cole of arberfield , was put in prison at redding , and there kept above twelve weeks , the last term was brought to the court at westminster , called the common pleas , where he appeared personally , and was from thence sent to the fleet , where he remains a prisoner ; two or three dayes after he came to the fleet , one george hatton , brought him a declaration of alexander stoake● priest , and about the second day of the first month called march , / ▪ the said priest went with bayliffs to the dwelling house of the said cole , and there entred his barn , and turned out his threshers , and seized on a mow of wheat , besides what was threshed on the floor , to the value of quarters , ( as the bayliffs themselves did compute it ; ) also they took away kine , which were worth near l . in all they took from him to the value of l . for one years tithes . for which farm one william thorrell , who possessed it many years , paid l . yearly to the priest for the tithes thereof , as he himself told the said cole . cumberland . george bigland of carlisle , was fined l . by william briscoe , thomas craster , and cuthbert stedholm , for following the occupation of a weaver in the city , notwithstanding he had served or years in the parliaments service , yet nevertheless was committed to prison . hartfordshire . thomas prior of hitching , for setting up a coppy of the priests unrighteous declaration in the market-place , taken out of the exchequer , against a poor old man , george huckle , was by the priest had before brockett spencer , one of the justices , so called , who committed him to prison for setting up the said declaration , and for a colour said , it was for setting up a libel , which said thomas prior hath been a prisoner ten months , and so remains . hamp-shire . humphrey smith , was committed to the common goal at winchester , by john bunkley , called a justice , ( upon the false oath of a wicked man ) and hath been a prisoner ten months , and so remains . lincoln-shire . john seel of leverton , a poor labouring man , was upon the th of the th month committed to prison at the suit of edward greathead priest of that town ; by the tenor of the writ , his body was to be had before the barons of the exchequer within dayes after the time called trinity , to answer the late protector , &c. but neither the persecutor nor tithes are named therein , yet the poor man hath suffered weeks imprisonment , by the means of this priest . besides , summoned up to westminster , from all parts of the nation for tithes , persons . the number of the persons herein mentioned , are about , who are but a part of those who have suffered for things of the like nature , within these years ; many of them being sufficient and considerable men and women , have been cruelly whipped and their blood shed . oh! do not ye let the nation be covered with innocent blood , by such as profess the scriptures , who use people so barbarously , imprison , and persecute about church , religion , worship and ministry , which are out of christ and the apostles lives , who saved mens lives , and wrestled not with flesh and blood , but brought the creatures into the liberty of the sons of god . do you walk in their steps ? since the drawing up of this paper , some few of the friends within mentioned to be in prison , may have been released , and others imprisoned . wil griffes , for speaking to a priest in shrowsbury , was by the mayor of the town committed to prison , & hath been a prisoner months , & so remains . richard sale of chester , for bearing his testimony for the lord against the wickedness of the people of that city , and for crying repentance , was by the command of the mayor put into a hole of a rock , called little-ease , the place being too strait for his body , he was thrust in by force of men which bruised him , insomuch that he spatt bloud ; after some time he fell sick , and his body much swelled , and he was heard to complain in the time of his weakness , of those bruises which he had in that cruel place of torment , called little-ease , the hole in the rock ; and after some time lying in pain , he died . also arnold trueblood died since in prison . if the truth hereof be questioned , many witnesses may be produced to confirm the same . an account of some grounds and reasons of the innocent sufferings of the people of god called qvakers , and why they testifie against the vain customs and practices of the world . friends . it may seem strange unto you , as it doth unto others , to hear that so many of our friends should be cast into prisons , there being few goales or houses of correction in england to which some of them have not been commited , & you partly know , how many of them are this day in bonds , and it is no less strange to us , that such frequent and heavy sufferings , for matters of conscience should come upon us and our brethren , who for the most part have been instruments with you and others , for casting off that yoke of oppression , which at the beginning of the late wars , lay upon the honest people of this land ; which made many fly into strange nations , and to seek habitations in the deserts ; but we wonder the more , that they should come from those we accounted our friends ( that so much have pretended the liberty of conscience ) and many of themselves practised the same things for which we now suffer . may we not ask what hath been done by our friends ? what lawes are these which they have broken ? whose persons , or possessions have they wronged ? what force or violence have they used to any man ? have you found them in plots , or guilty of sedition , or making resistance against authority ? have they not patiently born the greatest sufferings that any people of this nation ever lay under , since queen maries dayes , without murmuring , and discontents ? and when have they sought to revenge themselves , or troubled you or others , to be repaired for those many injuries and false imprisonments which they have endured ? how have they been counted as sheep for the slaughter , perfecuted , and despised , beaten , stoned , wounded , stocked , whipped , haled out of the synagogues , and cast into dungeons , and noysom vaults , where many of them have dyed in bonds , shut up from their friends , denyed needful sustenance for several dayes together , not suffered to have pen , ink , or paper ; and when they have layen there many moneths , and some of them years , denyed a legal tryal , continued from sessions to assizes , and from one assizes to another , and no eqnity to be found , from judge , or justice ? if it be answered to us they are common disturbers of ministers , they will not pay tythes , they will not swear , they will not put off their hats , they travel up and down from one country to another , without a magistrates passe , and on the first dayes to meetings at great distance , they will not pay fees , when they are brought into courts , nor plead in the formes there used , nor give security to keep the peace , or to be of the good behaviour , when the justices of the peace require it ; and we have lawes , or customes , that require these things should be done . it is forgotten what was one of the great causes of our late wars , the sufferings that then was imposed , and lay upon many for matters of conscience ; and was it not a chief pretence of our fighting , that we might enjoy the freedom of conscience , as well as outward rights , not onely in the inner man ( for that the bishops , or high commission court could not hinder ) but the free exercise in all acts of piety , and religion , of what the lord should make manifest unto us ? but whether this was then intended , or is now perverted , it is that which is our right , which we must claim , and no man may take from us ; for this we know , that christ jesus alone hath right to rule over the consciences of men , unto whom every one must give an account of himself , according to the just , perfect , and unchangeable law of god which is revealed , with that alone of god , which is made manifest in man , which he hath shewed unto him , by wch every one shal be judged at the last day , when the book of conscience shal be opened ; and therefore all unequal , imperfect & changeable laws of men we do deny , and by them , and for their transgression we shall not be judged of the lord ; and all lawes made in their wills , by their wisdoms in the things of god , which concerns religion , and the free exercise of a good conscience towards god and man , against them all we do bear witnesse , and knowing the commandments of the lord , and what he required of us , and having tasted his tender love , to those that keep them , and felt his terrors against all disobedience , we are made willing to bear the greatest sufferings , rather then sin against god ; and in this ground we stand not careful what man can do unto us , or say of us , nor to give him an answer in this matter ; for whether it is better to obey god , or man , let him judge . yet here to prevent mistakes , we do with the like clearnesse declare our free and willing subjection in the things of this world , to every ordinance of man that is just ( according to the righteous law of god ) and our work is not to weaken , but to strengthen the hand of the magistrate , by labouring to bring all to own that of god which should exercise their consciences ; to do in all things , as they would be done unto , in which is fulfilled the law and the prophets , which takes away the occasion it self of the law , and brings to live in peace and love , wherein should be the magistrates joy and glory . and do but look back to the crimes charged against us , and all the sufferings we lie under , and you may clearly see , that not for any evil done , or just law broken that concerns man , are we thus punished ; but for things which concernes our god , and chiefly for bearing our witnesse , as we are moved of the lord against the false prophets and hirelings of these dayes , who by their fruits are made manifest , not onely unto us , but to many thousands besides ; yea , the greatest part of all the sober people of the nation , their own hearers will confesse it ; and we see and know that they and all ministries and worships in the world , set up and standing in the will of man , shall perish and come to nothing , and the rise of these men , their growth and end , we comprehend , and see their downfall hasten greatly ; and all the powers of the earth shall not be able to support them , and with them shall fall their tithes , their temples , their gleab-lands , and offerings , their set dayes of worship in their wills , and all laws limiting the holy one , made to uphold their craft , and blessed are they , who through the day of tryal shall stand in their witness faithful unto god , not fearing what man can do unto them . do not you approve christ jesus his going into the temple ? and do not you own the apostles , who went into the jews synagogues every sabbath day , and into the market places to testifie of christ jesus , and reason with the people ? and do not you commend luther and calvin , john wicliffe , and others ( as famous for their zeal in publishing abroad what then was manifest unto them , ) and those persons which in q. maries dayes , went into the popish steeple-houses , to bear witnesse against their superstitions , which caused her to make a law against them , by which many of them then suffered , and by which the priests of england , till the last parliament were guarded , and is it now become an offence to practise the the same things ? and is that a just law made by the late parliament , by which many have suffered ? are not the priests sprung from the old root of episcopacy and it from the pope ? and are they not forced to fly thither for their vindication ? and is not the spirit the same , ( which makes these laws ) to support them ? how shall the kingdomes of the earth , the papists , turkes , infidels , heathens , be converted ? your priests sit down in their ease , and will not go ; they call themselves ministers of the reformed church ; and have not you taught other nations how to make lawes , to restrain the testimony of those whom the lord sends , and is sending into all the corners of the earth ? did the command of god which gave tithes to the jewish priesthood concern the gentiles ? was not the commandment to the jews themselves disannulled , when the priesthood was changed ? did ever any of the believing jews pay tithes to the apostles , or any of the gentiles either ? did not the papists bring in this doctrine , and oppression ; did not many of the martyrs in queen maryes dayes witness against tithes , and was not that an article , for which some of them suffered ? and do not you own and commend those martyrs , or do you judge them for holding an error ? hath not all or most of those countries that turned from the sope , and are called reformed , cast off tithes with the pope , and were ashamed of them ? and is it the glory of england , who pretends to the highest reformation to keep up tithes , ( the popish priests maintenance ) and first fruits , and tenths ( the wages of the very pope himself ) & to hale before courts , cast into prisons , and spoil the goods of all those who for conscience sake cannot pay them ? let that of god answer . and how many have , and at this day do suffer because they cannot swear , which christ jesus and his apostles above all things forbids ? how are the commands of christ made void by the customs and traditions of men ? were it not easy by turning the law against lyars and false witnesses ( which the law of god is against ) to find out that which your law against false swearing never did or could discover ? do you own christ jesus , of whom the jews that put him to death gave this witness , that he respected no mans person ? do you commend mordecai ? who could not give the outward honour and bow to haman ? and do you regard his words , whosaid , i know not how to give flattering titles to men , for my maker would soon take me away ? hath not god made of one mold , and one blood all nations to dwell upon the face of the earth ? and doth not he that respects persons commit sin , and is convinced of the law as a transgressor ? and must it now be an offence not to put off the hat , or give respect to the person of him that hath a gold ring , and fine apparel ? hath not all the earthly lordship , tyranny , and oppression sprung from this ground , by which creatures have been exalted , and set up one above another , trampling under foot , and despising the poor ? and is it not easy to see that power and authority without contempt may be preserved , the power honoured , obeyed and submitted unto , and the person respected ? hath not the great and heavy oppressions of the law been long felt and cryed out against , the long delayes in courts , & the great fees of officers , which causeth many to be excessively rich out of the ruines of the poor , which hath brought an odium upon the law it it self ? for to the poor , the remedy is frequently worse then the desease ; and while people are free to feed this deceipt , there is little hope to have it amended . and how full of lyes , deceipt , pretences , and needless circumstances are all your pleadings and proceedings , to the burthen of many mens consciences , and ruine of their estates ? and how vile and wic●●● are the greatest of lawyers , that will plead any thing for money , and by their subtilties do most commonly hide & cover the truth ? and when do the judges reprove it ? and how treacherous and deceitful are the solicitors and attorneys , that truth or honesty can scarce be found amongst them ? and how do those eat up the people as it were bread , and grow great and rich , by raising and increasing suites , troubles , strife and debates amongst their neighbours ? and we seeing these oppressions , are made to bear our witness against them , and cannot uphold them , and our testimony shall not be in vain . and how is the power given to justices and judges to bind to the peace and good behaviour ( being left to their discretion ) turned against the most peaceable , and best behaved persons amongst men , meerly because they cannot bow to their wills , and hold their tongues when the lord god requires them to speak ? do you commend christ jesus , his apostles and saints , who were sent to preach the gospel , and travelled from city to city , from nation to nation , from countrey to countrey , that the ends of the earth might hear the glad tidings of salvation ? and do you commend those they called puritans , for going many miles to worship the lord ? and do you now condemn those that practise the same thing ? would not your law against vagabonds have taken hold on christ and his ministers , and hindred their work ? by it have many honest and good people suffered most shameful whippings and imprisonments , who were travelling in their own countrey , about their outward and lawful occasions , that were of considerable estates and could not be counted , vagabonds ; and what use is made of this law , throughout the nation , you cannot but hear . are not these things like the sayings of those who said , had they lived in the dayes of the prophets , they would not have persecuted and put them to death ? and yet they crucified christ ; and so the cry at this day is against the jews for their cruelty , when themselves are found exercising the same things against his saints and members . long hath the beast reigned , who usurped power in these things , and the false prophets , who have over-spread the earth , & the great whore , who have made all nations drunk with their abhominations , and the wine of their fornications , with whom the kings of the earth have committed adultery , whom christ said should come , and before the apostles decease did come , who went cut from the apostles , and put on their cloathing , but inwardly were distroyers , ravening wolves , which the whole world went after , who turned against the saints , who kept to the spirit ( the life which they went from ) and made war with the saints till they overcame , and their power reached over the whole earth ; but now is the life risen , and is again made manifest which they went from , which gives to see before the apostacy was ; now is the lamb risen , and rising to make war with the great dragon , the beast and false prophets , and now shall the great whore be taken , and her flesh shall be burnt with fire , and the saints shall have the vict●●● therefore , let all kings , princes , rulers , & magi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be warned not to take part with the beast , nor to up●●●● 〈…〉 their power ) the false prophets , who have long de●●●ved the nations ; but in their place stand to keep the out 〈…〉 that none may offer violence and destroy another , ●●ich 〈◊〉 been the way of the beast & false prophets ( the 〈…〉 support of their kingdom ) but leave christ jesus in his saints to manage the war , whose warfare is not carnal , whose weapons are not carnal , yet are they mighty through god to the pulling down of the strong-holds , and overturning the foundation of satans kingdom , and they shall soon see what is truth , and what is errour , for great is the truth and will prevail ; they shall not need to cry out for want of ministers , or that christ jesus is not able to send forth labourers ; nor will those he sends forth trouble them for maintenance ; and here is the magistrates true place to keep peace amongst all men , to punish him that doth evil , and to encourage him that doth well , to rule the kingdoms of the earth in righteousness , that justice and equity may be exalted , that way may be made for the lord jesus christ , who is coming to reign , and to take the dominion to himself ; and we are witnesses in our measures of his coming , and of the working of his mighty power , by which he is able to subdue all things to himself ; and this is the testimony unto which we are called , and many thousands with us in the unity of the same spirit . and witnesses we stand against priests , tithes , temples , swearing , and all the carnal way of worship , set up and upholden by outward laws and powers , which would limit and restrain the spirit of the lord , which is grieved , and daily cryes out against these abhominations . witnesses we stand against parliaments , councels , judges , justices , who make or execute laws in their wills , over the consciences of men , or punish for conscience sake ; and to such laws , customes , courts , or arbitrary usurped dominion , we cannot yield our obedience . yet we do declare , as it is testified in all counties , cities , goals and prisons , to judges , justices and others , that as we preach christ jesus alone in the things of god to be our law ●●ver , so do we own him to be our king ( and own magist●●●● in things civil ) not resisting the evil , but following his example who was made perfect through suffering , and for his salvation we wait , till he alone shall plead our cause ; and therefore for conscience sake we have joyfully born , and do be●● so many and great sufferings , since the day we were convinced of the everlasting truth . these things we have declared , not to upbraid you with the injustice of others , nor to revile the government it self , nor as a complaint against our oppressors ; but that you may see the ground , and true cause of all our sufferings , and of the sufferings of the saints , in all ages , and generations , and in all nations of the world this day , and we leave it to that of god in you all , to weigh and consider , whether it be not time to reforme , both laws , courts , and officers . from your friends , who are lovers of peace and truth , who wait for the comming of the lord , to establish justice , and righteousnesse in the earth , whom he hath raised up , as witnesses of his appearing , and of the dawning of the mighty and dreadful day of god , in life , light and power , who are hated of men , and reproached under the name of quakers . and whereas there is a great cry up and down the nation , that the quakers meetings must be broken and suppressed , and that this present parliament intends to do it , and of this i have heard in divers parts of the nation . now to this i shall say and answer ; first , as i have observed the spirits of people concerning this cry , all the rude and ungodly people , as drunkards , and the prophanest of men , they glory apace at this newes , and rejoyce at this mightily , as if some great prize were befallen unto them ; and it makes them rude , and violent enough to the breaking of the peace in the nation ; but thus it is with but the worst sort of people in the nation , who are rejoyced with these tidings , that the quakers meetings must be broken ; but as for the honest people , such as be sober and sincere , thousands that had a hand in chusing this present parliament , never intended to send them up to london for such a work ; and the cry is by many of the sober people , if they go about such a thing , they will destroy themselves , undoe themselves , and leave their names a reproach ; why say the people ? ( we have a testimony before us ) hath it not been upon that rock of limiting tender consciences in former dayes , that hath broken many before these , which might be examples to these , not to do the same things ? and many sober people are offended at such newes , and it makes their hearts sad , whose conscience and the witnesse therein doth answer that we are the lords people , and it ought not thus to be done concerning us , as the newes reports ; so that by this newes of the intended purpose , to break the lords peoples meetings , the ungodly and prophane , are gratified , and strengthened in their wickednesse , and the righteous are made sad ; and further , as for us , we have been trodden down , and made a prey unto our enemies , and the gates of death and hell have stroven against us already , but have not prevailed unto this day ; for the lord is with us , and who is it that shall prevail against us , and i may say what is this that is reported to be done ? what shall dust and ashes do , and man whose breath is in his nostrils ? and who are they that shall break down that which the lord hath a purpose to build ? who shall be able to prosper in going about it ? or what success shall god give to that work ? i tell you nay , it is the lord that hath raised us up , and we have given our power to him , to stand by him , and to be protected , defended and upheld by him alone , and we cannot give our power to any mortal men , to seek that from them which is not in their hands to give ; the power of the lord god is over you , he that is our keeper and preserver , in whose hands is your breath , to destroy it utterly , if you do that which doth offend him ; for you shall know that we are the lords people , by whom we shall stand and grow in dominion and authority in his life , and the dread of the lord shall be upon our enemies , though they one gratifie another , with intention of evil against us ; yet the lord stoppeth the purpose of his enemies , and turnes it backwards upon their own heads ; and this i say from the lord , if such a thing be in your hearts , conceiving to be brought forth by you , it is a birth that will devour you , ere ever it spring out of your bowels , it will be too heavy a burthen , and you shall never have strength to deliver it ; this is the word of the lord to you , it shall be a rock to overthrow you , and it will be a snare to catch you , and if any such thing proceed from you , it will break you , and your own wickednesse will destroy you . alas ! do not you see evidently the hand of the lord fight for us ? yea , we have evident testimony of his presence , that he is and will be with us unto the end , and if any wil be blind , let them be blind , for these tidings do not trouble us , neither are we thereby moved , no not to beg of any man the contrary , for we cannot give our power unto you , nor come under the power of this world , no not to beg of you , contrary to a good conscience , that you should forbear the fulfilling your intents ; but this it is in the name and power of the lord , though he requires nothing of you to exalt his kingdom by your power , nor to prescribe him a way , how he must be worshipped , yet he requires that you should do nothing against him , nor his people , by limiting the spirit of the lord ; and i say the saints of the most high can not give their power to you , to stand or fall thereby , nor to go by the authority thereof , to exalt the kingdom of god thereby ; they can beg no such thing , nor desire it of you , for it is not in your hands to give his work of salvation unto the nations ; you cannot give nor lay one stone in the building of his blessed temple , but he alone will do it , and not by the arm of flesh ; yet doth he require , that you should do nothing against him , nor abuse your power , but and if you do , he will reward you according to your deeds , and this you will find and feel in the day of god , when he brings vengeance , and judgement upon you , and when he sets his kingdom over you all , and that comes to reign over the nations , which now is a sufferer . and when i first heard the newes sent abroad in the nation , of such intentions , to break the quakers meetings , many considerations passed through me , will these go said i in the same way , that many have been destroyed in before them ? will these run upon the same rock ? will these take in hand to limit god , and to set him a way ? and shall all these sufferings of the lords people for these many years be finished by these , that all the unjust dealings , and oppressions of the saints , may be upon them ? is there no wise man among them , nor none that feareth the lord , that he may be preserved from destruction ? and is this their begining in parliament , to destroy gods heritage ? the lord , nor the people of this nation that fear god , have not intrusted them therein ; but if it be so , said i in my heart , if this wickedness be intended , and if they do so greatly abuse their power , they shall leave their names as a reproach to after ages , and their memories shall rot , and their wickedness shall lie upon them for evermore ; but i considered that we having given our power to the lord , from him we have found to this day , and do alwayes seek defence , and to be carried on , and by him we stand , and to him we fall ; & not to mortal men , who are as clay in the hand of the potter ; wherefore let the wise in heart consider these things , and lay them to mind ; for if they shall proceed to that wickedness , the nations , shall they never settle in peace , nor shall their rulers , receive a blessing , but they shall be a curse unto themselves , & to all under their authority ; and this is a testimony to all sober people , shewing unto them all , where our confidence is , and in what it remaines ; and nevertheless if the heart of the wicked be strengthened against us , and their hands made strong to deal violently , yet shall the righteous rejoyce , and be exceeding glad ; for the day of redemption and everlasting peace is come unto his people , that do and have waited for him , and all under him shall bow and bend , and he will make his peoples cup overflow , and spread their table , even in the fight of their enemies , and they shall fear , and the terror of the lord shall lie upon them , and when they have executed their violence , then shall the lord deal violently with them . e. b. a cry of great judgement and vengeance upon the wicked , near to be executed , as it was received from the lord into his servant . on the eighteenth day of the first month , as i was travelling in warwick-shire , my meditations being upon the lord , and upon the cause of his people in this nation ; and how unjust and unrighteous their woful sufferings have been executed upon them within these few years ; even when i was pondering of these things , in the deep consideration thereof , it came upon me from the lord , and the cry went through me , the lord will be avenged , the lord will be avenged upon his enemies , and he will avenge the cause of his people ; and this cry stuck close upon me for some hours , that the lord would surely execute his judgments upon the oppressors of his heritage , who have spoiled and troden it down , and sought to destroy it ; and i considered and took into full view in my spirit , how grievous , how sad , and how unjust the sufferings of gods people have been within these few years , and my heart was even broken therewith , and my spirit even melted ; and it came upon me from the lord , saying , write unto the rulers , and yet once more warn them of that recompence , and of that indignation which is at hand upon them ; even a just recompence for all their deeds ; and as they have done , even so shall it be done to them ; as they have sought to destroy the generation of the righteous , even so shall they be destroyed from off the face of the earth ; and as they hav● unjustly judged and condemned the innocent , so shall they be condemned and justly judged of the lord ; and as they have cast the bodies of the poor lamb● of christ into prison , and been a snare upon them , even so shall they be insnared , and into captivity shall they go ; and as they have caused the goods and possessions of the innocent to be spoiled and made a prey , even so in like manner shall the curse of the lord spoil their substance ; and as they have done , so shall it be done unto them ; and as they have mete to others , so shall it be mete to them again . and i saw a great misery and desolation nigh at hand , even the sword of the lord , and it should slay them ; and i beheld it was made ready for the slaughter : and in the sense of these things a sadness fell upon my spirit , considering the desolation and the judgment that is at hand , to be executed upon the cruel oppessors . wherefore all ye rulers , and all ye that have troden down the heritage of god , and ye that have disregarded those many warnings that ye have had ; i say unto you all , in the power of the lord god , in his dominion , and by his spirit , this is once more a warning to you from the lord , & that these things must surely come to pass , and be fulfilled in their season , and no man shall be able to deliver his brother ; but every man shall bear his own burthen , and drink his own cup prepared for him ; and though it hath been counted a light thing amongst you , and you have dispised the reproof , and gone on without fear , yet in as much as the lord hath spared you , and not speedily executed judgment upon you , but rather waited for your return ; yet the dealing of the lord towards you in sparing of you , you have not accepted , and therefore shall his judgments be the greater upon you . for if you do now come to the witness in your own consciences , what evil hath this people done ? whose ox have they taken , or what have they desired of you ? or what have they sought from you ? or wherein have they been a burthen to you , saving that they have reproved you for your iniquities , and desired your repentance ? would you but now at last come to consider this , and confess the truth in your consciences , will not that tell you , that they have suffered patiently all things that you have cruelly imposed upon them ? and have not they walked peaceably towards you , & humbly , meekly & justly among their neighbours ? and have they not been meek & innocent even as lambs , and as the sheep before the sbearers ? and have they wrought offences towards any ? have they sought the overthrow of the government , or have they sought vengeance against their enemies ? or what injury have they done to any mans person , or estate , saving to satan and his kingdom ? have they not sought to reform , and reclaim the ungodly from their wayes ? and have they not pittied and prayed for their enemies ? and have they not in all things walked in good conscience towards the lord , and towards all men ? yea , my friends , in the day of the lord , when the witness in your consciences shall not be limitted , but shall speak plainly , and when the impartial judge shall appear upon his throne , then shall you acknowledge these things . wherefore i say unto you , receive the judgment of the lord to purifie you , otherwise the judgment shall destroy you ; and now come to be more wise , that some of you may be as a brand pluckt out of the fire , and be reserved from being consumed ; for the visitation of the lord is near an end , when his loving kindness will be shut from you , and his long suffering turned into fury ; and he will make you know that we are his people with whom you have thus dealt , yea , you shall suddenly know it , the time is not long till he will crown his people in the sight of his enemies ; he will crown them with praise and with righteousness , with honour and majesty , and he will keep them in safety , even when sorrow compasses you about ; his mercy and loving kindness shall extend towards them , even when his wrath and judgements doth smite you , and confound you . o what shall i say unto you ! for the deep sence thereof remains upon my heart ; for when i consider how that in all ages the lord did avenge his peoples cause , & when the time of their suffering was expired , he brake the bonds of iniquity , and set them free ; thus did he with his people israel of old , and many times it was his way with his people to bring them low by suffering , and then to raise them up again in glory ; and he suffered their enemies for a season to glory over them , that he might bring them down ; and thus he did in england in the case between the bishops and their crew of persecutors , and the poor people at that day called puritans : did not he confound that persecuting crew , and deliver his people ? and is not he the same to effect the same work at this very day ? yea doubtless , and much more will he do it , in as much as the manifestation of truth is more clear then it was in their dayes , and in as much as the rulers and people of this nation have rejected a more clear testimony , then either the papists in queen maries dayes , or the bishops and prelates in their dayes ; even so much the more will the lord god execute his vengeance with more violence , in a more manifest way , and all shall know , that it is he that doth it , and he will set his people free ; for he hath regarded their suffering , and he hath said it is enough ; for he hath tried them , and found them faithful ; and all this hath been suffered to prove them , and not to destroy them ; and like as he hath preserved them in patience , and peace through it all , even so will he give them hearts to walk answerably to their deliverance ; and as they have abounded in patience in their sufferings , so shall they abound in praises everlasting in the day of their freedom ; and the earth shall be glad , and shall yield the increase and blessing ; the heaven and the earth shall rejoice , and the heart of the righteous shall leap for joy , when the lord hath broken the yoke of the oppressed , and set his people free , inwardly and outwardly , and then shall they sing unto the lord over all their enemies who shall be tormented and vexed in the lords sore displeasure , for their reward cometh , and their recompence shall be even as their work , and he will give unto them sorrow and anguish , in stead of rejoycing . but again , when i considered the long suffering , and patience , and forbearance of the lords innocent people under all their sufferings ; and when i looked at their innocency , and at their righteousness , and spirit of holiness with which the lord hath blessed them , my heart was made glad in the consideration of this ; and the more was my joy , the more that i beheld their innocency , and the guiltlesness of their cause , whereby the unjustness of their suffering did the more appear ; and withal when i looked and beheld their increase under all their sufferings , and how that the lord had turned all these things to their good , and to the overthrow of all their enemies ; how that , by that way , wherein their enemies intended to destroy them from being a people ; even thereby did the lord most wonderfully increase them to be a great people ; for through all have they grown in life and power , in strength and in number , and through it all have they been incouraged to follow the lord with more zeal and boldness ; and in the consideration of this i did rejoyce , with magnifying the lord for ever , that he had brought forth his praise even through the wickedness of the wicked , and he had increased his people , and exalted them through the cruelty of all their enemies ; and that through all opposition they were attained to a happy rest , and through all the tempests of great trials , they were arrived into the harbour of renown and great glory ; and when i considered this , how that the lord had given them dominion , and brought their life to reign over all their enemies , these things were a joy unto me ; and looking back into ages , seeing there was nothing , nor any people for generations , that had grown , and risen through all opposition like unto these ; wherefore it is a sign and a testimony that we are the lords , and that these things are of him , and from him , and by him alone , that he might be praised for ever . again , when i do consider , how that the lord hath raised this people , even out of the dust ; and them that were not a people , are become a people ; and the lord hath provoked nations , by them that were not a people within these few years ; and the lord hath carried on this work amongst his people , not by any thing of man , nor by the arm of flesh , but in pure innocency and simplicity hath it been accomplished ; not by the wisdom of this world , nor by men in places of honour , and of power in the nations ; for all that has been wanting to them ; and what they are , it is through the opposition of all this ; for they have had none of the great men of the earth on their side to defend them and establish them , but all hath been against them ; and even oppression and tyranny executed upon them , rather then any approbation , or justification from men in outward authority ; so that truly it may be said , that there hath been nothing of man in this work , but all of the lord by his own power ; and in a contrary way to all the false sects and false churches , hath the beginning and carrying on of these things been ; for we know that all the false sects in this nation hath risen & been established through the countenance of men in place and power ; and upon man and the wisdom of this world , and authority of the powers of the earth , hath the rise and fall of all false churches depended ; and as the powers of the earth hath sided with them , so have they been set up , and at the displeasure of authority , have been cast down . but as for this people , they are raised of the lord , and established by him , even contrary to all men ; and they have given their power only to god , and they cannot give their power to any mortal men to stand or fall by any outward authority , and to that they cannot seek , but to the lord alone , who heareth their cry , and will avenge their cause . wherefore let all the persecutors bow before the lord , and let all the saints walk humbly in his sight ; and let them continue in that innocent life in which they have begun ; and let them never forget the mercies of the lord , and what he hath brought to pass , who hath manifested great things , and will do more and more to the confounding of all his enemies , and to the praise of his elect people . and all ye saints upon the earth , have ye the lord in respect continually , and turn you not unto idols , but let the lord be your joy for evermore . e. b. friends , who are called a parliament of these nations , we in love to our brethren that doth lye in prisons , and houses of correction , and dungeons , and many hath in fetters and irons , and have been cruelly beat by the cruel goalors , and many have been persecuted to death , and have dyed in prison , and many lyeth sick and weak in prison , and in straw : so we in love to our brethren do offer up our bodies and selves to you , for to put us as lambs into the same dungeons , and houses of correction , and their straw , and nasty holes and prisons , and do stand ready a sacrifice for to go into their places , in love to our brethren , that they may go forth , and that they may not dye in prison , as many of the brethren is dead already ; for we cannot but lay down our lives for our brethren , and to take their sufferings upon us that you would inflict upon them ; and if our brethren suffer , we cannot but feel it ; and christ saith , it is he that suffereth , and was not visited . this is our love towards god and christ , and our brethren , that we owe to them and our enemies , who are lovers of all your souls and your eternal good . and if you will receive our bodies , which we freely tender to you for our friends that are now in prison , for speaking the truth in several places , for not paying tythes , for meeting together in the fear of god , for not swearing , for wearing their hats , for being accounted as vagrants , for visiting friends , and for things of the like nature , according to a paper intituled , a declaration to the parliament , &c. delivered the sixth day of the second month called april , . to the then speaker of the said house . we whose names are hereunto subscribed ( being a sufficient number to answer for the present sufferers ) waiting in westminster-hall for an answer from you to us , to answer our tenders , and to manifest our love to our friends , and to stop the wrath and judgement from coming upon our enemies . tho. raulinson tho. curtis john crook thomas davenport john foster . thomas reese tho. hackelton william garrold john scanfield rich. crane will. travers john chandler richard simpson tho. kent william brown edward shaller william mullins humphrey bache john barnard william styles simon robinson robert moor william woodcock george rawlins alexander allens cuthbert harle ralph johns joseph jones john gayon john tyso george bewley james beech rich. burd william archpool william bett edward giles john radley william hownell steven crisp edmund cross james allen william shewen john boulton tho. norris daniel baker edwin harrison richard quicke john freeborn john love tho. moor ric. bax john stedman william persehowse richard glipsham nich. bond benjamin turly john pennyman rowland elrudge thomas coveney alexander parker john anderdon john baddeley john newton john yardley rice jones richard greeneway robert hasle john hope francis collins thomas bradly roger game henry godman james smither richard lewes nathaniel gerrard edward brook arthur stanbridge john blackfan ninion brockett richard newman nicho. rickman henry woolger william gering john barber james grynier robert sooley peter gosse thomas taxe rowley titchborn henry abbat john carter john fielder stephen wix thomas blatt benjamin matthew james fenner john stavelin robert mildred steven hubbard ioseph busthell thomas burchett christopher white iohn lee iohn beckett thomas braborne robert wade philip williamson richard deane iohn steevens gobert sikes george lamboll robert stedman thomas stedman richard hindmarch iames tenning thomas lawrance iohn schoren william spary iohn wolrich robert engram edward southwood iohn furly jun. iustinian holyman samuel vause henry cook henry ayres richard tydder iohn lawrance william iohnson ioseph lancley william dike george robinson robert newman iohn starkey edward bland thomas dowen thomas shortland amor stoddart iohn price iohn hollis edw. byllynge william plumley richard cockbill richard iopson benjamin peirson ionah smith richard davis iohn hawkes mannaseth casketer iohn disborow edward owers william penington william marnar richard hacher iacob carr william harrwood iohn allington thomas passenger thomas seaman william hamshere iames smith calib woods humphry kierbe maximilian cokarel . if we had been of esaus stock , we should have fainted before now ; and if we had been of cains stock , we should have built up his citie , and should have had fought with his weapons ; which was not , nor is the way of the just , and the elect ; of which we are , before the world began . errors . page . line . blot out and , the same page line . for seventeen , read eleven , page . l. . for edward , read richard , the last line of the same page , for shrewsbury , read bas-church , page . l. . add not. the end . i matter not how i appear to man, ... but of a virgin pure conceiv'd is he bateman, susanna. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) i matter not how i appear to man, ... but of a virgin pure conceiv'd is he bateman, susanna. p. s.n., [london : ] caption title. imprint from wing. signed and dated at end: susanna bateman. the . moneth in the year . annotation on thomason copy: "may ". identified as part of "an epistle to all people on the earth" (wing f ) on thomason tract microfilm. reproductions of the originals in the british library (thomason tracts) and the haverford college library (early english books). eng quakers -- early works to . a r (wing b ). civilwar no i matter not how i appear to man, ... but of a virgin pure conceiv'd is he. bateman, susanna c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion i matter not how i appear to man , a witness in my soul there lives that can bear record to the father this , that i , seek not mortals praise , but immortality ; that crown of rest and peace i may receive , which mortals have not in their power to give , which he must do who sets me free from sin ; and being clean , in peace there rules that king , who will not joyn unto iniquity , but of a virgin pure conceiv'd is he . vvhen i call to mind those pretious movings that were stirring in many , i cannot forget , though you have back-slidden and turned back to egypt for help , the lord pass by your weakness , and lay it not to your charge : but all know the call wherewith the lord our god hath called us , is a holy call , and we know it is bondage to the uncircumcised nature , yea , verily we have found it so , but yeilding obedience to the light , we have found that nature crucified in measure , and the cross made easie by him that beareth it in us , who is come to purge out the old leaven , and make the lump like unto himself , we having all sinned after the similitude of adam , and for sin is the earth cursed , and in sorrow must we bring forth , and the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents head ; but verily friends if it be known no otherwise , than barely by reading those words , 't is but a sandy foundation , and will not stand , being brought in by the outward senses , as the eye , or the ear , which all may attain to , that knowledge ; yet none shall know the mystery , but those in whom it is revealed by the light ; therefore it is in vain to get coverings , they shall not save you , for god is known as he is obeyed in his light , which is holy as he is holy ; therefore return to within , and deal plainly as before the lord , and see if by your long hearing , are you redeemed from your vain conversation , or witness the new birth , or what makes you differ from the world ? but verily i say unto you 't is not your hearing , or wishing to be as the redeemed of the lord are , but you must come to the work , and put your hand to the plow , and look not back to pleasant sodom , if you do , the lord will have no pleasure in you : and this know , we have known nights of sorrow , before we knew a day of joy , and assuredly so must you , if ever you come to see the seed spring out of a dry ground , which is covered over with the earthly , which must be yeilding before the seed come up , therefore come to the light which makes manifest your evill deeds , and see if it will deceive you , or hath deceived us for so we are acco●n●ed of by the dark world , that dares not come to the light to have their evil deeds reproved by it , neither can the wicked stand in judgement , and therefore have they got themselves an outward covering thinking thereby to escape ; but all know we must stand nakedly bare before god , and all must be judged according to the works done in the body , whether they be good or evil ; & this we know whom the lord is redeeming to walk with him in purity and holiness , knowing we are alwaies before him , and by his light in us judging and condemning sin in our works , words , and thoughts ; and though all the world condemn us , yet we know him near that justifies , in us the hope of glory ; and for this end hath he set up his light a standard in the earth , to call in any that is weary and thirsty to come and drink of the water of life freely , without money and without price , and those that drink thereof , shall have it in them springing up to eternal life ; and this i say unto all ▪ come and see him , for this is no other , but the messias who have told me all that i have done , and who can declare this but the begotten son of god , & this is he by whom the prophets prophesied , and this is he whom the apostles saw and bare witness of , the lamb slain from the beginning , the first and the last , and those must know the son in them who calls god father , for none knows the fathe but the son , and those in whom he will reveal him , and this is the bread which came down from heaven , by which bread we live , and by it our souls are nourished up unto eternal life ; and as there is nothing of absolute necessity for the body but bread and water , so there is nothing of absolute necessity for the soul , but this bread and water , without which we cannot live , for it pleased the father that in him all fulness should dwel , of whose fulness we partake grace for grace , love for love , and this is our light , and life , jesus , god manifest in flesh , to destroy the works of the devil , and then we can truly call him saviour , for he hath saved us from our sins , but he that saith he hath no sin , and yet liveth in sin , is a lyar , and knows not him that sets free from sin , and those whom the son makes free , are free indeed ; and no new gospel do we preach , ( as the world do falsly accuse us of ) but bears witness to the same life , whose body suffered at jerusalem , and was crucified by the unbelieving jews , whom god hath raised , of whom i bare witness , i never knew him by the hearing of the outward ear , nor by reading the letter with the outward eye , but i knew him by that word of life preached , which word is near in the heart , which word the apostle preached , which word you must come to witness to be that which turns the mind to god , & then search the scriptures to know whether these things be so or no , for they are for the perfecting the man of god through faith in jesus christ . to any that call themselves the ministers of christ , and yet know not that christ that was the word in the beginning , before the letter was writ . you that make a likeness of any thing , is but an idolatrous worship , teaching for doctrins the commandments of men , is but imitation , which moses rod will destroy , who had not known there had been a christ , had not the letter declared it to you ; you never knew the door , but are climed up another way , you must come down for no thief must enter his kingdom , nor buyers nor sellers dwel in his temple , but the free gift must be freely given , without money or without price , neither can any truly preach free grace , but those that witness a saviour , the son of god come to fulfil the law of god , and save his people from their sins , which is the grace of god which hath appeared to all men , teaching us to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , which war against the spirit , and being saved we can truly call him christ , the great power of god to salvation ; but you have gotten so far into the spelled name of the dead letter , that you have lost the life or the interpretation , which is god with us ; and though you have sold joseph into egypt , because of his party coloured garment of his fathers love , yet to him must you all bow , or starve for want of the bread of life , for the famine will be great amongst you , for all shall be committed to him the chosen seed , to whom the promise is ; therefore build not high , babel like , for the lord comes down to see the sons of men , and he will confound the imaginer , therfore to build sure is to build low that the rock may raise the foundation , which rock is christ , the express image of the father , who dwels with the low and contrite heart , that fears his word ; but they that know him no nearer than sixteen hundred years ago , they know him not , but whilst they stand gasing up , a cloud receiveth him out of their sight , but that same jesus which ascended up descended , and is the light of the world , and all that will receive the light , he gives power to become the sons of god , by that son who came to do the will of god , the elect , sanctifier , the justifier , the glorifier , the annointed high priest for ever , who is come to reconcile god unto man , and man unto god , by washing and cleansing with his blood of life ; some are thereby made fit temples for the holy god to dwell in , whom i bear witness will not joyn to iniquity or any unholy thing , but to those whose wills he hath subjected to himself , there he rules and hath put all things under him , and it is they that witness a whole saviour , that everlasting prince of peace . and this cannot you witness , who believe you cannot be cleansed here , but in another world ; but take heed that that faith do not fail you in the hour of dea●h , that you know not , who , nor where , nor what your saviour is , and so go to the grave where there is no place of repentance ; for as ye sow ye shall reap , and as the tree falls , so it lies , and the crown of life , the white stone , the new name is promised but to him that overcometh : now let the eye of god , the light which is pure , search you , and see if you rightly know the thing by which you are called gospel-ministers ; but be not deceived , neither deceive others , for a cup of sufferings you must feel to cut down all pride , selfishness , before that glad tydings you shall receive from him whose kingdom is not of this world , but comes contrary to it . therefore to you tender ones , who are able to judge somewhat in spirituall things , fear nor to go down to ioseph , for though he may seem a rough man to those that sold him , yet to benjamin doth his bowels yern to make himself kuown : but no man was to stand by while ioseph made himself known unto his brethren , the truth of which you shall find , that god may be glorified , who sees not as man , but rightly knows the heart and works all to the good of them that in truth loves him , he will open to them that knock , and all that truly seek h m shall assuredly find him . therefore it is my desire that none of you sit down till you have found him whom your soul loveth . but if you wil be high and not come down , t is not many years but you shall feel a famine , and whether you wil believe or no , truth it is that hath been declared . a warning to all those that are at ease in sion , and will not come out to help the lord against the mighty in this great day wherein he is dividing the pretious from the vile , the righteous from the urighteous . wo to all you who wil not come out to help the lord , for it is his good pleasure to gather to him a people , & to setup this name among them , holiness to the lord . and this is the word of truth unto you , what could he have done more to●h●s ▪ people than he hath done ? he digged about them , and made a hedge , and looked that they should have brought forth grapes , but there came up briers and thorns : he looked for judgement , but behold oppression ; for mercy , but behold a cry : therefore will he let forth his vineyard to other husbandmen that shall bring forth fruit to the lord thereof . therefore you literall jewes haste to repentance before the decree be sealed , for a sealed number hath the lord said there shall be ; and if the jewes , the first called , will not come , the high-way gentiles sh●ll be compelled in . o it is lamentable to see how you jewes have evilly requited the lord , he hath not been lacking unto you in discovering hi● love to you first : but many of you have turned like the dog to his vomit , and like the sow washed to the wallowing in the mire ; and though the god of the world hath blinded your eyes that you cannot see , but satisfying your selves in saying , we cannot be clean here ; but did you love the good god as you do the god of this world , you would find his power as able to keep you from sin , as the other to keep you in sin : but deceive not your selves , the eye of the lord sees what your heart lusts after , and all those who are in the light they see you also , how with fained words and fair speeches you draw neer to god , but your hearts are far from him , and that none but the eye of god the light , can discover , but you must joyn to it , for it is those that receive him to whom he gives power to become the sons of god . i know it is the wil of god israel should be saved , herefore joyn your wills to his , that his word may be accomplished , and sit not down til the dove hath found rest for the sole of her foot , which will not be till the waters are abated , which you shall see done by the word of his power , his son , the light of the world , and saviour of all those that believe in him . but if you are so high you will not bow to that little thing , to stoop down to it , know of a truth you may kindle sparks of your own , but you shall lye down in sorrow ; for a witness for it i am , and i dare not keep silence that there is no other name given by which you can be saved , but by the name jesus , the word which was in the beginning , which shewed adam he had sinned , and cain he was not accepted , because envie was in his heart to his innocent brother , which he after manifested : which word was known to noah , abraham , isaac , and iacob , moses & all the prophets , which was the same which is known by that name immanuel or jesus , god manifest in flesh , born of a pure virgin , which you literal jews say you know ; but it is but the same knowledge your forefathers had , they said he was to be born , and of a virgin in bethlem , of the seed of david , as the prophet ▪ of the lord had said . now you say he is born in bethelem of a virgin , and of the seed of david as the apostles have said , yet could not the jews by their learning and works of the law , know him when he was born , nor you by your learning , nor imitating the apostles know him that is born , and though you were invited to the feast , you should have taken the lowest place , till the master of the feast had bid you go up higher , but you boldly went up without his leave , but behold a more honorable person is come in , and you must go down lower , for it is he that humbleth himself shall be exalted , and he that exalteth himself , shall be brought down , and this i know there is no struggling or striving with him , he will make you bow , and bend you or break you in pieces . let no one envy his brother but abide in love . know you not that every envious man is a murderer , and the lord heareth the cry of the innocent , why are you envious at your brothers sacrifice , because it flames , if you do well are you not accepted ? if not sin lyeth at the door , what if thy brothers do burn and thine doth not ? would you kill him because god hath accepted him ? but cease you rage and know for a truth israel shall not alwaies be in bondage under pharaohs task masters , though they may command to kill the man-child , yet lovely moses is born , but is to be hid in the rushes , and after nour●shed up in pharaohs court , and he not know it , and that is he that shall deliver poor israel from his hard bondage , if you know not what this means , then know that god is not known by wisdom , or humane learning , but he is the same god that changeth not , and as he did formerly he doth now he brings to pass his strange work , which seems to you learned ones a foolish and low thing , yet he will by this foolish thing confound your wisdom which hath puft you up with a high confidence that you can say well , but you have gone too far without your guide , having skipped the law and the prophets , and are come as far as gospel or christ , but truly frier as you must come back again to the first chapter of genesis , and there read the first dayes work which god did , he divided the light from the darkness , and the light he blessed , because he saw it was good , and the darkness he called night , and so he went on with every dayes work , will the whole creation was finished . look not out , for this creation you must witness wrought in you , before you come to the sabbath , the lord of rest ; for our god is a god of order , and moses was to do according as he saw the patern shewed him , and all this is to be seen in the light ; but how haman , or mans proud wil , that is so highly advanced will come down off the kings horse , to give poor mordecai that place , i know it will be death unto him : but he must down , the king hath decreed that honor unto mordecai , and as the lord lives he shall have it , let the heathen rage , and the people imagine a vain thing , yet shall his son be set on that holy hill sion . thinks human wisdome i can eas'ly see the scripture can this thing declare to me ; but it 's not known by pleasure , ease or sleep , who finds this pearl must dig both low and deep and whoso finds before it be his own , he must sell all to purchase that alone , and cast up all his stock , and look within , before to build this house he doth begin . remember babel , do not build too high , nor make a tower to reach unto the sky , nor look without , but turn thy eye within , see christ be laid , then build thy house on him ▪ who builds not on this rock , shall surely fall , for hee 's the corner-stone uniteth all . cease then a while you humane learned men , and know your wisdome cannot find out him . thou willing and obedient , know i●'s thee ▪ whose vail is rent to see this mystery : it 's not the prudent , learned , wise , that shall him comprehend , who is the light of all . follow the light , for surely 't will thee bring where he is born , then bow and worship him . no sooner is he born , but thou shalt see , that herods nature by its cruelty . seeks to destroy that new-born babe in thee . known to many by the name'of susanna bateman . the . moneth in the year . finis . the lybeller carracterizd [sic], or a hue and cry sent after him. some of his works made publick: with observations thereupon key, leonard. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the lybeller carracterizd [sic], or a hue and cry sent after him. some of his works made publick: with observations thereupon key, leonard. coale, benjamin. aut p. s.n., [london : ] text signed on p. : benj. coales. signed at end: leonard key. caption title. place of publication from wing; dated at end: d. of the d. month, . reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . libel and slander -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - celeste ng sampled and proofread - celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the lybeller carracterizd , or a hue and cry sent after him. some of his works made publick : with observations thereupon . whereas some envious person , or persons in or about london ( as is supposed ) have of late abused several honest men in several countries , by sending great packets by the post ; and thereby not only putting them to considerable charges , but also abusing several with scurrilous language and falshood ; which have been born with until it became frequent ; and then several have refused to receive them ; so they have been returned upon the post-master again . the hand-writing being compared , seems much alike ; and the seal , sometimes the anchor , and sometimes the ship , &c. and printed books writ upon between the lines , and wrapt up in a blank piece of paper , charged , and d. for postage ; and some less : and inasmuch as such practice is very unjust , and a work of unrighteousness : it is the duty of all honest men fearing god , not only to disown , but publickly to testifie against such a practice . it was , and is at this day , a certain truth , that he that doth evil hates the light : neither will he bring his deeds to it , least it should reprove him . and doubtless , the nameless author of those packets loved darkness rather than the light , because he was afraid to put his name to what he hath writ : but his work discovers him to be a night wanderer : and though he would seem ( it may be ) to be religious ; yet how vain is it for him so to do , that hath not a bridle to his tongue ; but will accuse , and not prove , and ask questions to no purpose , except to slander and abuse men ; and is yet to learn that lesson which our saviour taught his followers , viz. whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , that do unto them . this nameless author of the packets , seems as if he had authority ( or at least assumes it ) to judge of men's properties , and question the printing of books , that are not licensed by such nameless persons as himself : and in particular , he quarrels , and seems to be offended with a small book written concerning that honourable woman loveday hambly , deceased ; and several other books , that have been wrote by persons of good repute , men fearing god , and abhorring such idle practices as the author of the lybel is found in . in short , the author of those packets makes it his business to abuse honest men , and endeavours as much as in him lyes , to take away their good name , by bespattering them with bad names , and in particular , hath bent his arrows of envy and hatred against that servant of god j. s. deceased , and j. w. and others : but seeing he is such a night-wanderer , and will not tell his name , what he writes is the less taken notice of , or credited amongst men of understanding . now if this lybeller will come forth , and own his work , he shall have a fair hearing ; and if he be found guilty , let him repent and do so no more ; but if he doth persist in this wicked work to abuse and cheat men , as before mentioned ; which is little less than picking their pockets . this is to give notice , that whosoever can give certain intelligence of his name , and place of his residence or habitation , shall have reasonable satisfacton for their pains . written by a lover of truth and honesty , but a witness against the contrary . reading , the th . of st . mo. / . benj. coales . and have no fellowship with the vnfruitful works of darkness , but rather reprove them : for it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret . eph. . , . here is the work of a formal apostate manifested , and some observations and queries made publick , that was long since delivered to some of the formal preachers in reading , but no answer given to them ; or an hue and cry after a nameless author , that hath made it his business to send great packets by post , from london to reading , and to many other places in the nation , whereby honest men have been put to great charge , and much abused by one that would seem to be religious and very zealous , for the setting up of outward things , as may be seen by his own words , as they were sent to two persons in reading , set down verbatim : also a short postscript . first query . was not peoples going from the light and spirit in their own particulars many ages since , the cause why so many forms of prayers were made to be said by the church of england . dly . and did not their compelling and using violence to those that were otherwise minded , proceed from the spirit that made the form ? dly . did not the presbyterians with their church-faith and directory that they had made , do like the church of england , when they had power ; excommunicate and cast into prison , such as could not bow to their image , which they had set up ? thly . ' did not the baptists with their form which they did cry up , do like the former ? and hath not all the lo heres , and the lo there 's arisen , when the people in every generation have gone from the spirit 's teaching ? thly . ' and hath it not been so with all other sects , when they have erred from the spirit , which was given to be for a leader , and have run into the setting up of outward things ; which hath proved a snare in all ages ; read and see how it was with israel of old , when they forsook the lord ; how did their enemies prevail over them ? let it be a warning to all in our days . thly . and now it is come to the formal quakers turn ; and are not they , with all their strength and might they can get in most places , a setting up the form that they have made , and giving it higher names than any that hath gone before : and some hath had the confidence to say , and preach openly ( that what they had set up ) was to keep things sweet and clean ; notwithstanding many things have happened amongst them in many places , which is a stink and a shame to mention ; yet calling them holy orders , and such like n●m●s as they in their imaginary minds could think on ; too much like the golden image that was set up in the days of daniel , which the lord did and will confound . thly . and doth not many of the formal preachers sit with their hats on , when many of the lord's servants are moved to pray . thly . and doth not many others imitate them in that ungodly practice ; so that it may be said as it was in times past , like priest , like people : which is a trouble to many , and a stumbling block to the weak that beholds it ; and may it not be said now as in times past ; the teachers of the people have caused them to err . thly . and do not some of you , formal preachers , send great packets by the post , directed to honest men in the countrey without any name to them , on purpose to put them to charge , witness reading , where four were sent to two persons in eight days time , and charged s. d. to be paid by them they were sent to ; and many more have come to this town since , besides what have been sent to other places . thly . and are these the fruits of a christian spirit ? or from them that are apostatized from it ? let any that have any understanding of the things of god , judge . thly . and have not you , according to your power , been like them before mentioned , considering your standing , in giving bad names , both in your prayers , and also preaching ; calling such dark spirits ( that cou●d not joyn with you about your forms ) and that they were gone in the way of cain : and many such like expressions ; and have you not endeavoured to make the people believe it ; when you know in your consciences , that many that you so brand , are blameless , both in life , conversation , and doctrine . thly . and was it not the elders of israel in days that are past , that gave unrighteous judgment , and did condemn the innocent ? and hath it not been so in our days ? witness the paper that was signed by against their innocent brethren in the north ? and may not the same cry be sounded in this our day , as was then , in the ears of many , return , return to the place of judgment . even to that principle that was first preached , which was the first , and will be the last . thly . when david kept to the spirits teaching , did not he say , o lord , thou hast made me wiser than all my teachers , and thy word is a light to my feet , and lanthorn to my paths . and this teach't him to order his conversation aright : and it is the same at this day , and will remain for ever . thly . and is not the lord god , who hath an all-seeing eye , appeared , and made known himself in this our day , for this very end , according to his promise , to gather a people to himself , from all the lo-heres and the lo-theres , as hath appeared , and is bringing them to wait upon him ; who is feeding all that do truly hunger after him , with that bread that doth truly satisfie their longing souls , and all such , as they abide under his teaching , need go no more forth , blessed and praised be his everlasting name for ever . th . th . mo. . l. k. here follows the words of the nameless author written in the title page of the relation of loveday hambly , deceased , and sent to b. c. viz. ben. coale , here is a paper of thine , where thou applauds , with many frothy expressions , l. h. and saith , her table was plentifully spread . it is like so , makes thee so to applaud her : hath she not given thee some great legacy for thy funeral sermon ? hadst thou , or you authority to print m. d. & f. s's letters ? ye tell of her good works and charity , and is that the cause that ye do so so applaud her ? the papists will do the same : but are you in the spirit of good works and charity , or evil ? hast thou not cryed peace to such as put in thy mouth , and oppose such as stand against thy wilful , peevish spirit for want of charity ; but thou wouldst appear to be somebody , and to make a noise in print , with thy tinckling cymbals and sounding brass , as thou dost in meetings : why did not you print , how you shut the women's quarterly-meeting out of their meeting house , and shut the quarterly men's-meeting out of the house at blewberry , and they were fain to meet at an inn , and a. estmead nailed up their meeting-house door at calne , and they were fain to meet in the street , and the women fain to meet in a malt-house . is this your liberty of conscience , and works of charity , to keep people out of their property , or the persecuting spirit of the world cloakt with liberty ? hath j. s. and j. w. taught you this doctrine ? is this as it was in the beginning ? he that sitteth in heaven will break your bands in sunder , and laugh you to scorn , whose babel and folly is manifest to all men that know you , and will be rewarded according to your works . isai . . . i knew thee , that thou wouldst deal treacherously . observe , b. c. gave a short testimony with some others in print relating to the life and death of his old mistriss l h. and spake something of her praise , whom he knew to be worthy thereof , living a servant with her some years , as appears more at large in that paper given forth on her behalf ; which the reader may do well to see , and then may better take notice of the envy and mallice that hath appeared by the nameless author of the packets : he saith , here is a payer of thine , where thou applandest with many frothy expressions l. h. which is wrong in this formal apostate , so to say : and for b. c's saying , her table was plentifully spread ; he said no more than he knew ; see the paper , and judge : and if she had given him a legacy , as he scoffingly saith , he had better deserved it than some others that used to be frequent at her table ; and they can do no less but say , if they speak true ; as b. c. hath done ; although what he hath said , could not be for any great legacy , or for her funeral sermon , as the nameless author scoffingly saith , for he wrote nothing as i know of , till she was dead , a●● if she gave him any thing , it could not be for that , for she knew not 〈◊〉 observe , this lybeller seems to be offended , and saith , hadst 〈◊〉 or you authority to print m. d's and t. s's letters . answer there is no question to be made of that ; but the reader may observe , th●● what was printed , was not stamped by the second-days meeting ; and some may be so foolish as to say , it was out of the vnity ; and did not this make him to compare it with the papists : but i think many of them will hardly do as he hath done , in sending great packets by p●st , to put honest men to charge , and conceal their names , as he hath done his ; and must needs be talking of charity , and tells of tinkling cymbals and sounding brass : but what this formal apostate hath done , makes but a bad sound . and why did you not print ( saith he ) how you shut the women's meeting out of their meeting-house , and shut the quarterly mens-meeting out of the house at blewberry , and they were 〈◊〉 to meet at an inn. answer . if it were so , the friends at blewberry can give the best account why it was so . it is a sign they were a 〈◊〉 of such company that use to frequent such meetings of late days which made it their business to brawl and contend against honest men , 〈◊〉 had been , and are serviceable in their day : too much of this i have seen , and do not speak by hear-say . this nameless author saith 〈◊〉 estmead nailed up their meeting-house doors at calre ; but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was so or no , i shall have it , it being without the compass of my knowledge but do wish he had not as much ground for what he did , as they had at blewberry , if it be as is said , and what 's all that to b. c. observe . the nameless author saith , that the women were 〈◊〉 meet in a malt-house . i confess , that was hardly well taken by 〈◊〉 that came from londong , and other places , to help to settle the gov●●●m●nt of the women's meetings ; but he need not be so much offended with the malt-house , for is is no such inferiour place to sit in at 〈◊〉 and he further saith , is this your liberty of conscience . ans . surely the women in the malt-house in reading , there met and assembled together , might have brought forth as good an edict as they did that met at barbados . and saith the nameless author , hath j. s. & j. h. taught you this doctrine ? ans . i am sure they never taught any to do as he hath done and then conceal his name , they were men of more integrity , and did abhor such a practise as he is found in ; but his reward will be according to his work : how are the hidden things of esau searched out ! the nameless author cites isai . . . i knew thee that thou wouldst deal treacherously . ans . very proper for himself . and it may be said of him as once the prophet of the lord said concerning edom , the pride of thy heart hath deceived thee , thou that dwillest in the clefts of the rock , whose habitation is high ; that saith in his heart , who shall bring me down to the ground ? tho thou exalt thy self as the eagle , and tho thou set thy nest among the stars , thence will i bring thee down , saith the lord. here follows the words of the nameless author , to tho. curtis in one of the packets , viz. you may take your fawning , flattering funeral sermon home again , and spread not such things abroad least they be turned home again with shame ; had you not , nor do you not expect some great legacy for your work ? and is not this crying up one , as you did j. s. and crying down others , like carnal men , building of babel , whom god will confound ; and some of her neighbours reproved the madness and folly of such prophets , when they saw those flattering frothy expressions concerning l. h. which more manifests a puft up spirit than humility , but no better fruits can be expected . t. c. read it over again , and it may happen thou mayst better consider thy folly , if envy and passion hath not blinded thee ; and thou hast made a great boast what thou hast done in this book ; but the truth hath tryed it , and hath a sense of the work and spirit to be conceited and lofty , &c. there is no peace , saith the lord to the wicked . their liberty of conscience you may read , pet. . . isai . . . and in jude . the reader may take notice , that t. c. was one of them that gave a testimony forth concerning his old friend l. h. with whom he had been conversant , and made serviceable in the hand of the lord , as appears more at large , by what he hath wrote on her behalf ; and i know no reason why this nameless author should be so much offended at it as he is , except it was , because it was not sent to be approved of by the second , days meeting , as if he had power to bind and loose : he saith , the truth hath tryed it , and hath a sence of the work and spirit . observe . so many as have an eye to him , that are zealous for the form , and oftentimes sit with their hats on in time of prayer , will be ready to say , it is out of the vnity , as they used to do by that innocent man j. s. which the formal apostate cites : he talks of crying up one , and crying down others , like carnal men , building of babel . who will cry up thee , thou treacherous person , that art ashamed to put thy name to thy work ? what can be more like babel than what thou hast done . the lybeller saith , that some of her neighbours reproved the madness and folly of such prophets , &c. observe , they are as nameless as this author , and i may say to him as the psalmist once said , what shall be done unto thee , thou false tongue ? and doth not this manifest more a puft up spirit than humility , let his own words answer him ; but no better fruits can be expected from one that is ashamed of his name , obs . he saith flatteringly , read it over again , & it may happen thou mayst better consider thy folly , if envy & passion hath not blinded thee . ans . if envy , madness and folly had not blinded this formal apostate , he would never have done as he hath done , to put honest men to such unnecessary charge , as he did in eight days time , and concealing his name . surely none will own his work nor he , unless he give forth a paper of condemnation ; for such things go a great way in our days ; especially among such as are ready to pin their faith on other folks sleeves . observe . he saith , there is no peace to the wicked . ans . very true , therefore it will concern this person to look back and repent of this ungodly work that he hath been found in , and not like lucifer , think to make his nest amongst the stars , for the lord god in his own day and time will bring him down , and all that so do . the nameless author talkes of liberty of conscience , and cites pet. . . isai . . . and in jude . so the reader is desired to search the scriptures before cited , and compare what they say with his practice . it was said by the prophet , the remnant of israel shall not do iniquity , nor speak lyes , neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth . postscript . te nameless author before mentioned seems to be a person , by his own words , as if he had intelligence from many places in the countrey ; which may make many think he is one that frequents the second day's meeting , and doubtless , doth account himself one of the faithful , & would seem to have the care of the churches upon him , or , as if he had been some great instrument in setting up the women's meetings , separate from the men. so here is a short discription given of him , and it is left to some , that have made a great talk of their inward sense , to make a further discovery of this nameless author , that so honest men in the country may no longer be abused by him . reading d. of the d. month , . written by a lover of the truth , leonard key . a warning and visitation to the inhabitants of godalming all you that read this, be not rash, but weigh it right with the true weight, and the even ballance, the ballance of the sanctuary, and then you will not judge amiss of it; for it is not in hatred or reproach to any, but in love to all souls, in plainness and truth. and you inhabitants of godalming, be warned, and seriously consider of this visitation; for the spirit of the lord yet strives with you as with the old world, but they not taking warning, were drowned: therefore prise your time, and despise not the reproof of instruction, for such are brutish; but reprove or instruct a wise man, and he will love thee; reprove a scorner, and he will hate thee; but the reproof of instruction is the way of life to the wise; and a wise man will hear and increase in wisdom: be calm therefore, and learn of the light which is the way and the truth. t.p. gill, henry. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing g a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a warning and visitation to the inhabitants of godalming all you that read this, be not rash, but weigh it right with the true weight, and the even ballance, the ballance of the sanctuary, and then you will not judge amiss of it; for it is not in hatred or reproach to any, but in love to all souls, in plainness and truth. and you inhabitants of godalming, be warned, and seriously consider of this visitation; for the spirit of the lord yet strives with you as with the old world, but they not taking warning, were drowned: therefore prise your time, and despise not the reproof of instruction, for such are brutish; but reprove or instruct a wise man, and he will love thee; reprove a scorner, and he will hate thee; but the reproof of instruction is the way of life to the wise; and a wise man will hear and increase in wisdom: be calm therefore, and learn of the light which is the way and the truth. t.p. gill, henry. p. printed for thomas simmons, at the bull and mouth near aldersgate, london : . signed at end: henry gill. reproduction of the original in the friends'library, london. eng society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . warnings -- early works to . a r (wing g a). civilwar no a warning and visitation to the inhabitants of godalming. all you that read this, be not rash, but weigh it right with the true weight, and gill, henry b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a warning and visitation to the inhabitants of godalming . all you that read this , be not rash , but weigh it right with the true weight , and the even ballance , the ballance of the sanctuary , and then you will not judge a miss of it ; for it is not in hatred or reproach to any , but in love to all souls , in plainness and truth . and you inhabitants of godalming , be warned , and seriously consider of this visitation ; for the spirit of the lord yet strives with you as with the old world , but they not taking warning , were drowned : therefore prise your time , and despise not the reproof of instruction , for such are brutish ; but reprove or instruct a wise man , and he will love thee ; reprove a scorner , and he will hate thee ; but the reproof of instruction is the way of life to the wise ; and a wise man will hear and increase in wisdom : be calm therefore , and learn of the light which is the way and the truth . t. p. london , printed for thomas simmons , at the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . a warning and visitation to the inhabitants of godalming . all ye inhabitants of godalming which have any desire after the lord , read this paper with moderation , and i shall shew you how you are deceived by him you call your minister , who hath deceived the hearts of the simple by seeing false visions for you ; who hath called the drunkard , and swearer , and lyar , the proud , and covetous , and envious , and them that are in wrath and strife , whoremongers , and idolaters , and such like unclean persons hath he called christians , and his beloved , and tells you , that you will be deceived if you go from him ; but how can you be more deceived then you are already ? for there is no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of god : then what will ye do in the dreadful day of the lord , when all hearts shall be made manifest , and every secret thing brought to light ? then what will your being called christians avail you , so long as ye are out of christ ? for in him there is no sin ; for he that commits sin , is of the devil ; therefore if you commit sin , are you not of the devil , and do his work ? consider in the fear of god what you are doing , for it is not his calling you , beloved , will stand you in any stead in the day of the lord . therefore examine your selves ; are your works wrought in god ? or do ye believe that there is sin wrought in god ? or is not sin the work of the devil ? are the works of the devil destroyed in you , yea or nay ? if nay , then christ is not come to you , to work in you , and for you ; for he came and comes for this very purpose , to destroy the works of the devil ; but they are not destroyed in you who continue in doing them ; and christ the saviour you do not witness : therefore what good doth your false prophet do you ? is not the scripture fulfilled on him & you , which saith , they shall not profit the people at all , because they stood not in his counsel ; and you may see you are not profited at all ; therefore why will ye spend your money for that which profits you not ? seeing the lord hath said so by the mouth of his prophet , jer. . ye may read and search scripture , and see whether ye follow the ministers of christ , or of antichrist ; for christ saith , by their fruits they may be known ; is this the fruit of a minister of christ , to cast into prison for trespassing against him , as he saith i have done ? and doth not he say , forgive us our trespasses as , we forgive them that trespass against us ? doth not he pray to his own condemnation , and ye with him , who do not forgive one another their trespasses , but sue them at law ? so like priest , like people ; so is it at this day , they make people light , vain , and wicked , as the scripture saith , and the scripture cannot be broken ; and as the wicked priests did , so they do now ; search these scriptures , isa. . jer. . . hos. . . mic. . tit. . so may you see that yours is not unlike the false prophets of old , but in their steps , preaching for hire and filthy lucre , and putting into prison , as they did of old ; and therefore i cry against them , as they did in former dayes , such who was in the same practises , having the good words and fair speeches to deceive the hearts of the simple : o that you would consider these things before it be too late ! for what will ye do when the body comes to dye ? then will ye wish ye had kept the law and the light , which is the school-master to bring to christ ; for then shall ye know that god hath not left himself without a witness in you , which did testifie against evil , and would have led you out of evil if you had turned your minds to it , and gave up freely to be guided by that in your consciences , which testifieth against all evil before it be acted : so if you love your own souls , turn your minds in to the light which checks and reproves , and no longer rebel against the lord which reproves you , and come out of iniquity , for why will ye dye ? your blood will be upon your own heads , and i shall be clear when ye are judged ; for do ye believe that it shall be well with the wicked , that you harden your hearts against the lord ? nay , the wicked shall be turned into hell , and their prayers he will not regard : do ye think god will be mocked any longer with your vain oblations ? or do ye think that ye may join with the wicked , and not partake of their sins ? or do the drunkards or lyars worship god ? if you say , nay , then come out from the steeplehouse , and leave the priest and drunkards alone together , and be no longer deceived by him you call your minister , because he hath the good words and fair speeches to betray the simplicity in you ; but he hath made himself manifest , for every tree is known by his fruit ; therefore if he bring forth evil fruit , he must be an evil tree : consider , his fruit is covetousness , lying , and casting into prison , this is manifest wickedness , such as no true prophet or apostle did ; & no minister of christ ever did cast any into prison for their bellies ; nor such did not cry peace to the wicked , as yours doth ; neither did they tell people that they could not be free from sin here , as priests now do ; for they that the son made ( and makes ) free , are free indeed , john . . then they are lyars that say none can be free from sin here ; for if not here in this life , then i say never shall ; for there is no cleansing after death , but as the tree falls , so it lies ; and as death leaves , so iudgement finds . therefore consider in the fear of god what ye are doing ; or do ye think that i am your enemy because i tell you the truth ? did ye once love me ? and now do ye hate me because i bear testimony against your evil deeds in love to your souls ? or the more i love you , the less i am beloved of you ? for greater love hath no man then this , that a man lay down his life for his friend : so for your sakes i bear all things , if by any means i may gain some ; for my bowels yearns over the seed of god which lyeth in captivity , and longs to see his deliverance from under the bondage of corruption , into the glorious liberty of the sons of god : for this is the mighty day of the lord , wherein all shall be left without excuse , and your destruction shall be of your selves . o! that ye did but know how the lord doth wait to be gracious , and how often he knocks at the door of your hearts , and ye will not let christ into your hearts , but le ts sin dwel there ; ye have no room for christ , for your hearts are taken up with other guests , and christ in the manger , trampled upon with every unclean thing which dwells in your hearts , though he check you often vvhen you do evil : is there none that is tender-hearted amongst you ? are you altogether turned out of the way ? and is your own ways best ? is your pleasure better then christ , and more esteemed by you then eternal life , that ye refuse him that makes an end of sin , that ye will not turn at his reproof ? will ye alwayes kick against that which pricks you in the conscience for sin ? consider what will be the end of sin , for it brings death ; then what assurance of life have ye ? but if ye find that the witnesse of god in your hearts or consciences give you not assurance of life , then return to it your hearts and minds to believe in it , and obey it , so may you become the sons of god ; but if you refuse to obey the light which manifests sin within , then the wrath of god you cannot escape . therefore be warned , and repent , and come down from your high thoughts , or imagining that god accepts of you , or your performances , for he accepts onely of his son , and so those that are in his son , he accepts of them and their performances ; for he is worshipped and served in spirit and in truth ; but none can worship there , that live in sin , as ye do who are after the steeple-house worship , which is fleshly and carnal worship ; but they that worship god in spirit , have no confidence in the flesh , but from it are redeemed . therefore i say , trust not in your steeplehouse-worship , for god abhors it , and all your worship , who are not turned from swearing and lying , and evil-speaking , and such like wickedness , which is common amongst you ; therefore fear the lord god every where , and turn your minds in to feel after him , that ye may find him who is a spirit , the invisible god , onely known in , and by the spirit revealed , and now is the day that he will be found of those that seek him in truth , and in sincerity ; but he hides himself from the wicked and covetous priests and people , for that is not to be named among saints , it is idolatry ; such is your steeple-house worship , and all the wicked that know not god . therefore be awakened to righteousness ; that is righteous which calls and cryes against sin in your hearts , and that will guide you to god if you obey it ; but if that ye disobey it , it wil be your condemnation : therefore prise your time , and while you have time , fear god , and the fear of god is to depart from sin ; and slight not the day of your visitation , but take warning before it be too late : from him who is witnessed by that of god in your consciences to be a lover of your souls , who is known to you by the name of henry gill. something of a letter sent to one newly convinced . my bowels over thee yearns , to meet thee in my fathers love , to lie down in everlasting peace with the lambs of god , where none can make them afraid ; my soul longs to meet thee there ; but truely first thou must bear the indignation of the lord , because thou hast sinned against him ; therefore freely give up to him that which is for the sword , to the sword ; that which is for famine , to the famine ; and keep nothing back ; though the devil will shew thee the glory of the world , and tell thee , thou may have it if thou wilt deny the light in thy conscience , ( or christ which hath convinced thee ) and fall down and worship him ; or if he tell thee , thou shalt never be able to overcome the world , and that the world will hate thee , and thy friends , and it may be some of thy house , and thou findest little strength within , but trouble on every side , fears within and without , and thou seest sin exceeding sinful , and when thou wouldest do good , evil is present with thee ; though it be so , faint not at it , look not at that , but look at that which manifests it to thee , and wait patiently upon the lord , and keep thy mind in to the light , and love that which shews thee thy condition and wretched estate ; and join with that , and be of good chear , saith christ , i have overcome the world ; take his yoke , and strength thou wilt feel against sin , and power over it , as thou art faithful to that which is made manifest to thee , till every thought be brought in subjection to christ , and thou be found naked , not having thy own righteousness , but that which is wrought by christ ; so stand still , and become a fool , that the wisdom of christ thou maist receive ; and keep thy mind from wavering and being tossed to and fro , but keep in to the light , where the doctrine of christ is learned , so thou wilt not be tossed by the windy doctrines of men of corrupt minds , which have the cunning sleights to deceive the simple ; such lye in wait , and have the true prophets words , but out of their life ; and such would keep people alway under the condemning power of the law ; but the power of the gospel which saves from sin , they come not to believe in , and so are not saved by it , but still they sin , and are condemned by that of god in them , which is the law , which is light ; and here are all steeple-house-people , and priests , and all professors , mudled in the dark , and cannot get out because they own not the light to lead through condemnation , to peace ; but i say to thee , be of good chear , though wrath be heavy on thee , and the way hard and narrow , the transgressor must feel judgement ; for through judgement is redemption witnessed : so consult not with flesh and blood , but keep in thy mind , and the day wil dawn , and the day-star will arise , and peace and refreshment to the seed wil be known to refresh , & power thou wilt receive to rule in thy heart ; but take heed of being disobedient to the light which reproves , for then barrenness and unfruitfulness , and the anger of god , and his rebukes in flames of fire ; but join with the pure that moves against sin , and the birth immortal thou wilt know in thee brought forth . o how am i pained till this be accomplished ! least thou shouldst faint in the wilderness where ( other professors and steeple-house-people are ) there is no water to refresh the plant of my fathers renown , but their waters fails , and the rock they know not : but seeing the lord is bringing forth his seed , take heed of pharoah's nature that must be plagued and drowned , that the seed may serve the lord ; so take heed that thou murmure not in the wilderness , but wait on the lord patiently ; so my love in tender bowels is to ●●●…e , hoping the lord will remember his own which ha●● lain in captivity ; thou must pass through the sword to the tree of life ; take heed of feeding on the tree of knowledge , for there are the professors and priests of the world feeding , and imagining to build babel , but they are now scattered and confounded , for the lord is come down ; but seek not thou ( with them ) for an easier way then through the judgement , by that which judges all evil ; and looke not at the greatness of thy sin , but prise that which saves thee from any one , and power thou wilt feel increase , as thou art obedient . so the lord god of power preserve thee to the end , and in the end , henry gill. the end . a spiritual prospective glass through which the rulers and people of england, may plainly see those things which concerns their peace. being a manifestation from the spirit of god, in love to all people. by one that desires the prosperity of truth, and the peace of the nation. w.smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a spiritual prospective glass through which the rulers and people of england, may plainly see those things which concerns their peace. being a manifestation from the spirit of god, in love to all people. by one that desires the prosperity of truth, and the peace of the nation. w.smith. smith, william, d. . [ ], , - p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year, . w. smith = william smith. cf. wing. place of publication from wing. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of 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readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng redemption -- early works to . christian life -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a spiritual prospective glass . through which the rulers and people of england , may plainly see those things which concerns their peace . being a manifestation from the spirit of god , in love to all people . by one that desires the prosperity of truth , and the peace of the nation . w. smith . in him was life , and the life was the light of men , and the light shineth in darkness , and the darkness comprehended it not , jo. . . . for god who commanded the light to shine out of darkness , hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the fear of jesus christ , cor. . . printed in the year , . to the reader . reader . if absolute necessity did not constrain to make a discovery of that which doth occasion desolation , and to inform all concerned wherein they wrong both themselves and others , and so to set the truth before the face of all people , it would be more satisfaction to fit in stilness then in such a manner to appear in publick , and though the innocent dwell in that love which endureth all things , yet where severity oppresseth their innocency , it causeth them to manifest the truth on their own behalf , and also for the benefit of such by whom they are oppressed , and for this very end is the matter published which in this little book is contained , for if any conclude that the innocent quakers suffer as evil doers , they make there conclusion without a good understanding , and none are to conclude a matter until it be fully cleared by sufficient evidence , and whoever thou art into whose hands this little book may be ordered , thou art desired to read it or hear it , in meekness , and to consider the matter in it as becommeth true wisdom and sound judgement , and so by thy own temperance and moderation , thou may reap proffit , and do thy self good , farewell . w. s. a spiritual prospective glass , &c. it is not to be questioned but the rulers and people of england do acknowledge and confess that christ jesus is their redeemer and saviour , & that they are christians through the faith they have in his death and resurrection , and therefore to be hoped that the ensuing matter may meet with better respect and entertainment in relation to christ an practice , for christian practice is always an acceptable thing to a christian nature and life , because nature is delighted in that which is in agreement with it , and the first being stated as a thing not questioned , the latter may be more fully opened and presented for the harmony will not break where the matter is substantial in its ground and nature , for whatsoever breaketh harmony doth alter the course of nature by malignity , for christianity is concurrent in all passages without any malignity in it self to let or hinder , and in this harmony the lord god hath his glory , and where it is not so , it is but christianity professed which wanteth the substantial ground and nature of a christian life , and the title of a spiritual prospective glass comprehends the whole matter by allusion for most people know that it is the property of a visible prospective glass to discover visible things plainly , which otherwise are obscure and not to be clearly discerned , and by that means many comes to be satisfied concerning a thing by beholding it so fully as to know what it is even so must all people come to know and be satisfied concerning spiritual things , by beholding them in the light and spirit of god , for spiritual things are spiritually discerned , and the light and spirit of god doth discover spiritual things as they are in nature and life , and in that discovery there is no deceiveableness by any false presentation or object , but a true discovery of the substance of spiritual things by which the soul hath great benefit and comfort , and with this blessed light and spirit abraham see christs day and rejoyced , and with the same light and spirit moses see to the beginning , and rehearsed the mighty works of god in the beginning and he see christ the great prophet who was to be raised up like unto him , and commanded that he in all things should be heard , and so ●●ses see the beginning and the ending in the light and spirit of god , and all the prophets and holy men of god , see the heavenly and spiritual things in the same light and spirit of god , and john see the lamb of god , and said behold him , and some beheld his glory as the glory of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth , and so in the light and spirit of god all the holy men of god discerned spiritual things , and then they did not look at things that were temporall , but at things that were eternal , and this were a true presentation or object which did not deceive the beholders , and by believing in it according to the dispensation of god they came to witness salvation and eternal life , and so people must come to the light and spirit of god in themselves if they would see spiritual things , for flesh and blood doth not reveal spiritual things , and they that expect to see spiritual things in that nature they deceive themselves , and this hath been in ages past , and is at this day the ground of error concerning spiritual things , for what man can see spiritual things with a natural eye , there is no testimony given by the holy men of god , that they see the things of god with flesh and blood or a natural eye , but said , the natural man receives not the things of the spirit of god , because they are spiritually discerned , and no man knows the things of god but the spirit of god , and here the natural man is to stop and stand still and be quiet , he cannot see spiritual things , nor receive spiritual things , nor judge of spiritual things and so not fit to meddle with such weighty concernments , for seeing by scripture testimony that no man knows the things of god but by the spirit of god , then all that would know the things of god are to mind the spirit of god in themselves , and as the spirit is minded & obeyed , it teacheth and instructeth in the things of god which it knoweth , and so the things of god are revealed by his spirit and taught by his spirit , and they that receive the spirit they know the things of god in it , and here is the spiritual mind in which is life and peace , and he that hath a spiritual mind is a spiritual man , and that man is fit to judge of spiritual things , because he sees them in the spirit , and knows them in the spirit , and therefore able to give sound judgement which the natural man cannot do , for the natural man runs into error by believing in false objects , which darkness presenteth to his view , and as he receives it into his beliefs so he holds it in his judgement and opinion as if it was the truth , for error is a mistaking of things as to the truth that is in them , and that was the sadduces condition concerning the resurrection , and christ said unto them , ye do err not knowing the scriptures nor the power of god , for if they had known the scriptures and the ●ower of god , they would 〈◊〉 understood the truth of the 〈◊〉 , and not erred in 〈◊〉 judgement and opinion , for it was their judgement that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no resurrection , and that 〈◊〉 their error or mistake , 〈◊〉 christ opened the truth unto them , saying , god is not the god of the dead but of the living , so truth is not to be concluded as to what men hold in their judgement and opinion , seeing christ reproved it 〈◊〉 error in the 〈◊〉 , but that which is revealed in 〈◊〉 and spirit of god , may be safely concluded to be the 〈◊〉 which is no error , for he that is the light and truth did see the saddu●●● error in what they held in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and opinion concerning the resurrection , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there be for people to give up their belief to the judge●●●● 〈◊〉 opinion of natural men as to spiritual things , there can be no ●ore safety in so doing then for one blind man to be led or guided by another that is as blind as himself , therefore i shall speak in plainness to the rulers and people of england for their information in the things of god , if happily the light may shine out of darkness in such where it shines in darkness , and by darkness not comprehended that if it seem good to the lord , the day may break in them and the sun of righteousness may arise with healing under his wings . friends , unto you all that are striving against the blessed appearance of christ jesus the lord of life , and prince of peace , this matter is offered in love to your souls and to the whole nation , and though i well know that judgement lingreth not where wickedness aboundeth , so i also know that god would not the death of a sinner but rather he would turn from his wickedness and live , and this i deliver as a testimony for god and in this matter i shall not appear like tertullus the flourishing orator , but like paul the plain and true apostle , for in such weighty concernments the fear of the lord is to be minded , and his counsel and wisdom to be obeyed and followed , and in that i shall speak to the witness of god in all your consciences . . the almighty and everlasting god created all things good & man in that state was blessed and happy in the paradic of god , and there his soul enjoyed the benefit and comfort in the life and power by which it was nourished , . the good and blessed state in which man was created he loss by disobedience , and so was driven out of paradice to his souls sorrow and heaviness , and that is the state of all people in the first adams transgression . . the almighty and everlasting god promised a seed to break the serpents head that tempted man forth of his good and blessed state in which he was created , that man might be again restored into his first being of life . . the seed promised was christ the power of god , and the wisdom of god , who by the arm of his power is able to destroy the devil and his work and to bring man again unto god and the good . . the holy men of god in all ages did bear witness of the power of the seed in working deliverance from the power of the serpent , by which they came to witness gods promise fulfilled , and to live in the joy of his salvation . . there is no nation , people or language unto whom the seed doth not give light , for the 〈◊〉 is christ , and christ lighteth every one that comes into the world , and his light is a witness in every ones conscience unto that which is good , ●nd against that which is evil . . man believing and obeying the testimony of the light of christ in his conscience , it worketh in power for his deliverance out of darkness where his soul is in bondage , sorrow and heaviness , and restores into the good again where the soul comes into peace , joy , and happiness , and so christ is the restorer of 〈◊〉 to dwell in . now as you profess your selves to be believers in christ , and so to be christians , it is necessary that you consider how far you can witne●s the promise of god fulfilled in you , by the power of christ , and that you may fully examine your own conditions these following questions may be useful to you . . do you believe in the light with which christ lighteth you . . do you obey the testimony of light in your own consciences . . do you witness your sin done away , and the serpents head broken . , do you witness deliverance out of darkness and the house of bondage . . do you witness liberty in the power of an endless life . . do you witness the righteousness of christ to be made your righteousness . . do you witness unity and peace in the righteousness of christ. . do you witness the goodness of god to satisfie your souls . . do you follow peace with all men and holiness . . do you feel the peace of god rule in your hearts . . do you love your enemies and do good to those that hate you . . do you serve god in fear and rejoyce before him with reverence . examine your selves and your condition by these few questions , for these good and holy things are witnessed by such as are regenerated and born again , and except you be regenerated and born again , you cannot enter into the kingdom of god , and can your souls be satisfied out of gods kingdom , and is it not the greatest concernment to know an entrance into the kingdom of god , where the soul comes to be satisfied in rest and peace , and comfort and happiness , and so there is a coming out of the first adams transgression as the light and power of the second adam is obeyed in manifestation and operation , for the operation of the light and power of christ jesus the second adam makes a new creature and they that receive christ in his light and power to come into union with him they are new creatures , and new creatures are christians in nature and life , and the spirit beareth witness with their spirits that they are the sons of god ; and in such all old things are done away , and all things are become new , and so they are in the new covenant with a new heart , and a new spirit which god gives them , and puts into them , and these are the people who now worship god in the spirit , and rejoyce in christ jesus , and have no confidence in the flesh , and so they answer the life and practice of new creatures , and christians in times past , and this keeps the harmony and doth not break it , for the same righteousness , unity , and peace , runs as a natural stream in the same light , spirit , life , and power that is in christ jesus , and if you come to love this , and live in this and walk in this , your souls will come into righteousness , unity and peace , and so into a comfortable and happy being ; but if you gain-say : resist and withstand the light of christ when it testifieth in your consciences , and love darkness rather then light , your souls are in sorrow and heaviness , whatsoever you may profess of christianity in your judgement and opinion , for there can be no sound judgement or opinion , but in the light and power of christ jesus , and they that resist the light they err in what they hold as to their judgement and opinion in spiritual things ; for the ground of error is ignorance , and the ground of ignorance is darkness , and then such as love darkness rather then light must needs live in error and not in the truth whatever they profess , and righteousness , unity and peace will never spring out of darkness and error , for where ignorance maintains an error it usually maintains it by violence and force against such as hold the contrary , and that will never do the thing that is right , and so cannot be righteous or bring forth righteousness , nor never will bring into unity and peace ; but provokes unto wrath , envy , and strife , and so it is plain that error in judgement and opinion touching the way and worship of god is the veryground of persecution , for as darkness vaileth the understanding from the true knowledge of spiritual things , so it causeth ignorance and error in judgement and opinion , and then worketh violently against all dissenters or opposers of that which it formeth and setteth up to be observed as the way and worship of god , and this breaks the harmony that stands in righteousness , unity , and peace , and can never bring comfort and happiness to any soul , and is it the way and manner of christians to practice the way of the heathens by whom they were first persecuted , and many destroyed , for did not the heathen emperors cause the christians to be persecured and destroyed for above hundred years after christ ? and doth it become christians to walk in the heathens way of outrage and cruelty one amongst another , or should they not love one another as christ commandeth and live in righteousness , unity and peace together , and so judge the heathens cruelty and not justifie them in it ? o that the rulers of england would stand still and consider the beginning and end of persecution in matters of faith and religion , for if the beginning of persecution be well pleasing unto god , then cains slaying his brother is no sin , but that cains action did nor please god is plain from the displeasure of god against him , & the judgment of god that came upon him therefore cain slaying his brother is a sin that did not go unpunished and so neither the beginning ofending of persecution that can in any wise be profitable to those that are exercised in it , and the innocent quakers could not have believed that the king and great counsel of parliament would have put such an opportunity into the hands of violent persons to ruine their estates for worshipping the living god , for it is the living god that those people do worship , and they worship him in the spirit and in the truth which is peaceable , whatsoever you do reckon their meetings to be in your natural eye , & seeing that such a violent use is made of the safe act as tendeth to the utter ruine of honest peaceable subjects , it can no way be dishonourable to your dignity to repeal it & make it void , which if you do not your agreement in the execution will 〈◊〉 in the consequence , and that will fall hard upon your selves when the lord makes inquisition after such as spoils his people , but if you do repeal it and make it void as seeing how destructive it is to the nation in the using and execution of it , then you will manifest some tenderness of heart in your great assembly , and also demonstrate that it was not by you enacted with that intention as it hapneth in the execution , and this would be great satisfaction unto the nation , for what conclusion can you make to your selves by suffering such proceedings , or do you conclude that it may be a benefit unto such as comes under the punishment by working their reformation , if there be neither benefit to your selves nor those you punish as offenders it cannot be beneficial unto any others , for that by which any hath benefit must come as a clear thing , or otherwise it is no benefit at all , for if a man must answer as much or more in consideration of what he receives , he hath no benefit but rather looseth by what he receives , and if such amongst whom fines are to be divided must answer the receipt unto god with a greater consideration , they will be loosers by what they receive , for what doth it proffit a man to gain the whole world and loose his own soul , or what shall a man give ●n exchange for his soul. so if a man loose his own soul in consideration or what he receives in such a manner for his benefit : his loss is far greater then his gain and therefore no benefit at all unto him , and that no benefit can come to the sufferer by working reformation is very clear , for violence was never known to work a true reformation in any , and seeing no benefit will arise to any party according to what may be expected , then it is altogether an unproffitable thing which unto christians should be detestable , and however you may be incouraged by prelates and clergy in such a work upon a christian account , yet you will not find it to your souls benefit and comfort , and they that incourage you in any thing that will not bring comfort to your souls , you have good cause to let there counsel fall at your feet , and not to make it a head to rule over you , for indeed most men of that sort have sought for worldly preheminence , honour and proffit , for many ages past , and the more you adhere to their councel , the more will they seek their own interest by you , and good dominion over you , for how doth the pope exalt himself over . emperors and kings , who by the emperor was first enstalled in his pontifical dignity , and so experience may teach you that it is not altogether your safety to set up prelares and clergy above you , or to follow their advice and counsel in things that properly concerns your own authority , but rather mind your own power in all civil concernments , and there is nothing further wherein either they or you are to concern your selves by the power of any outward law , and as you mind the light of christ jesus it will direct you to act in your proper places whereby your souls may have peace and comfort , and that councel you are to receive by which you may come to allow to all tender consciences the just priviledge of liberty in things pertaining to their consciences , and that will settle righteousness , unity and peace in every conscience that is well disposed towards god , and so the soul will come to live in comfort as in a day of prosperity , and there you will know the things that belongs to your peace . now in things of such weighty concernment there ought to be great regard to the well being of a nation , for there is your proper place to stand and rule not to meddle with spiritual things , but look after the well being of the nation , and to suppress vice and vanity that occasioneth mischief and injury , here stand in your places and exercise your power to the punishment of evil doers there your authority is to shew it self and not in punishing tender peaceable people for their conscience towards god , for persecution will never bring righteousness , unity and peace to a nation , but always disturbs and disquiets the most setled condition , so thus the consequence of persecution is for the most part strife and sedition , and yet under the colour of suppressing seditious meetings persecution is carried on as the best means to do it , and so that which is evil in it self would make a good thing to appear evil that it might appear against it as evil to make it self appear as if it was good , for this is to be observed that persecution never appeared against any thing as if it was good , but as if it was evil , and so hath always had a cloak to cover it in its greatest fury , for such as are persecuted do always suffer as such that in the account of that spirit which persecuteth deserve the thing that is done for it is the general cry at this day by those that acts persecution or joyn with it , you deserve to suffer that will not obey the kings laws , and so would appear as if they were doing a good work with their violent hands , and will concern the king and his laws in what they do , but such never yet looked thorow the spiritual prospective glass to see things as they are , and therefore they follow evil as if it was good , and would suppress the good as if it was evil , and so are evil doers , and who will conclude that an evil doer obeys the kings laws , and if it be those that do well that are such , then the innocent quakers do not deserve that punishment as some inflicteth upon them under colour of disobeying the kings laws , and what work doth this make in the nation , doth it not make the nation like broken shattered bones when so many honest people and peaceable subjects have their estates torn from them by violent hands , and many of conside able estates have little left , and no encouragement to begin again , and many families lies distressed for want of that which should have been their outward relief , can ever such things bring the nation into righteousness , unity , and peace , or doth it not wast it like a consumption upon the natural body ? and what pleasure or delight can you have in such a work who joyn hands to perform it ? are you not smitten in your consciences for your doings , and is not that the hand of the lord that smites you , and so you cause the hand of the lord to turn against you , and except you repent it will be terrible to you , for you are not like to prosper that persecutes the innocent , and where is there a president in any nation of such actions : doth any nation ruine the estates one of another in such a manner , surely you are not come high to righteousness , unity and peace , whose hands are busied in this destructive work and therefore a spiritual prospective glass is set to every mans eye , that you may look thorow it and see the nature of truth , and the righteousness , unity , and peace contained in it , that ye may come to love the truth and live in it to the comfort of your souls that so righteousness , unity , and peace , may run through the nation to the satisfaction of those that dwell therein , and that it may be so i shall state a few particulars to be observed . . mind the light of christ jesus to be guided by it , and do unto all men as you would be done by . . be tender towards all that fear god and work righteousness for their incouragement . . ordain no laws that may be of a compelling or restraining power in things pertaining to god and the conscience , and repeal such as be in force for any such end or purpose . . allow the supreamacy and authority of church government into christ jesus the head . . ordain such laws as may reform the vain lives of such as fear not god , and to right such as suffer wrong , and to preserve outward government in peace . here is your bound set , beyond which you are not to go , for god doth not allow you to go beyond civil concernments , and if you meddle with any thing further you go too far , so stop where the lord bounds you , and act where he allows you , do not encroach upon his prerogative and right , do not meddle with the conscience which belongeth onely to his power , let that alone as a thing too weighty for you , for you know no more of it then what your own judgement and opinion may perswade you and so may err in your doings , and if you err in your doings you cannot do the thing that is right , and therefore better let all alone that is out of your reach , then reach too far and hurt both your selves and others , now if you mind the light of christ to be guided by it , you will plainly see that what is here briefly stated doth much conduce to the settlement of the nation in righteousness , unity and peace , for why should religion be an occasion of trouble and disquietness to a nation , may not people enjoy their own faith and live in quietness with their neighbors , and love their neighbors , and so the nation may live in righteousness , unity and peace together as men though they do not all observe the same things in practice and worship towards god , and would not this heal the broken shatter'd bones of the nation , and make it a lovely nation in the eyes of all people , and hath not england been counted a lovely nation upon the account of christian profession , and now to deform it self with such a black image of persecution will make the praise of it fall with great dishonor , for what nation doth make a larger profession of christianity then england , is it not looked upon by many to be setled in a christian profession after the best reformation , and will it now deform its beauty by putting on a countenance of persecution , for the best reformation , and persecution hath not the same countenance and beauty , and hath not the lord shewed kindness unto england above many other nations , hath he not sent of late years many tender visitations and warnings by many of his faithful servants , doth not his light shine in england to expel and drive away those mists and fogs , that have overspread the nation , and under which the people have been scattered as sheep having no shepherds , and were there not a time when christ began to upbraid some cities wherein most of his mighty works were done because they repented not , and did he not say concerning chorazin and bethsaida , if the mighty works which were done in you , had been done in tyre and sidon , they would have repented long agoe in sack-cloath and ashes , but i say unto you it shall be more tollerable for tyre and sidon in the day of judgement then for you , mat. , ( mark ) more tollerable for tyre and sidon , in the day of judgement then for chorazin and bethsaida , because his mighty works which were manifest there did not cause them to repent , and have not mighty works been done in late years in england by the power of christ , which if such mighty works had been done in some other nations they might have repented long ago in sack-cloath and ashes , and some in england that have beleived in the mighty works which christ hath wrought by his spirit and power and have repented and are turned to the lord , and his mercies peace and blessing is with them , surely all people of all sorts had need to be serious in considering this weighty matter , for if you persecute the innocent who are turned unto the lord , you will do despight unto him when you should require his kindness shewed unto you by walking worthy of it and do you not often request of the lord to spare his people , and bless his inheritance and do you spoil his people and curse his inheritance or do you take your selves to be only his people and inheritance that you would have him spare and bless , and those that differ from you to be spoiled by your hands , and cursed by excommunication as not being his people and inheritance ? you must either so conclude or otherwise you your selves are contrary to that which you desire the lord would do , and if you spoil those whom the lord spareth , and curse those whom the lord blesseth , do you not commit a g●eat offence against him , yea an offence of a far higher degree against god then meeting peaceably together to worship him cant be an offence against you to the witness of god in you all i speak , to that which is true and just and righteous from which truth and justice and righteousness proceed , that truly justly and righteously tryes and judges all offences , and unto that the innocent quakers appeals which will clear their innocency from any offences in meeting together to worship and serve the lord , for in times past , some said it is vain to serve god , and what proffit is it that we have kept his ordinance ( or according to the hebrew , observation ) or that we have walked mournfully ( or according to the hebrew , in black ) before the lord of hosts , and then they called the proud happy and they that wrought wickedness were set up ; and they that tempted god were delivered ( mark ) then they that feared the lord spake often one to another , and the lord hearkned and heard it , and a book of remembrance was written for them that feared the lord , and that thought upon his name , and they shall be mine saith the lord of hosts in that day when i make up my jewels ( or according to the greek , special treasures ) and i will spare them as a man spareth his own son that serveth him , malachi . . ( mark ) here is the lords people plainly discribed , and they are not those that said , it is vain to serve god , and difesteemed his ordinance or observation , and called the proud happy , and wrought wickedness , and tempted god , he did not own these to be his people that he would spare , but those that feared the lord , and spake often one to another , and thought upon his name , they shall be mine saith the lord , and i will spare them , [ mark ] the lord owns his people that he will spare those that fear him , and keeps his ordinance , or observation , and thinks upon his name , they are now his people that he spareth though men spoil them , his jewels , or special treasures that he maketh up , who are born of the seed that he blesseth for ever , and these are gods chosen inheritance that are under his blessing , and he blesseth those that blesseth them , and curseth those that curseth them , for this was his promise to his seed , saying , i will bless them that bless thte , and curse them that curse thee , and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed , and here you may see through the spiritual prospective glass , who are the lords people & inheritance which he spareth and blesseth , & if you spoil his people whom he spareth do you not highly offend him , and if you curse by excommunication his inherance whom he blesseth do you not highly provoke him , therefore take heed what ye do in making the lords people and inheritance to be offendors by your law , and so proceeed against them as offendors to spoil them and curse them , it concerns you to be serious and not to sport with such things , but mind what you desire of the lord in your own words and perform it on your own parts , and do not spoil his people and curse his inheritance any more , for they are spared and blessed of god , and he will not hold such guiltless as spoileth and curseth those whom he spareth and blesseth , for do ye not absolutely fight against god when ye entreat them evil , and are not such enemies unto god that fight against him , and did ever any fight against god and prosper , surely you generally forget gamalliels councel , and it would do well if some amongst you would offer it in your great assembly to put you in mind of it , or it may be hoped that all are not like minded in wilful purposes to injure the innocent , and it was a noble spirit in gamalliel that moved him to stand up in the councell when they were purposing to slay the apostles , and there to give his advice to stop the lury of the purposers , & to him they agreed , and so it was seasonable advice which prevented the execution of such a cruel design , and will christians condemn gamalliel for betng a friend to the apostles , when the jews agreed to him , and by their agreement did manifest that they were not so wilful in their purpose but that a sound and weighty judgment might prevail with them to alter their purpose , and so by experience it is found better for rulers to let things alone that concerns faith and religion for if any thing be of man it will come to naught of it self without laws to suppress it , and if it be of god there is no law of men can destroy the thing though the bodies and estates of such as have faith in it may be exposed to great sufferings for it , and no god men will disapprove of gamalliels counsel who stood in a good consideration of the matter , and not willing that a wilful purpose should be judge in such a weighty concernment , and will you say the councel did not do well in agreeing to gamalliel ? i hope not , and if you conclude they did well then do you agree to him now in your great assembly for if they who at that time did not believe in christ nor the apostles doctrine were so easily intreated to let the apostles alone and not to slay them as was purposed by them , then how much more should such as profess a belief in christ and the apostles doctrine be perswaded and intreated to let those alone that now beleive in christ , and live in the apostles spirit , life , and doctrine , ( this reaches the witness of god in you all if you will but bow your ear to the councel of it , for the wisdom from above is pure and peaceable and gentle and easie to be intreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality ( or according to the greek , without wronging ) and without hyppocrisie , jat . . . ( marke ) the wisdome from above is of a pure , peaceable gentle ntture that may easily be intreated and so the mercy and good fruits are in it where none are wronged and that was the principle that moved in gamaliel by the appointment of god for so good an end , and it answered the same principle in the jews which at that time did prevail with them to let the apostles alone as to the thing they purposed against them , and so there was a pure princidl of god in them all that secretly wrought in them to deliver the apostles though otherwise they did not believe in it for life and peace . now let this be your pattern and example which produced such a good effect , act by this , and walke by this , that you may follow the principle of god in you as your rule to guide you , that your purposes may not stend in wilful resolutions as not to be easily intreated , for if it be so with you there is cause for you to question whether the wisdome from above direct you in your undertakings , and if by that you be not directed you may soon erre in what yea doe , nay , you may possibly erre in all you doe , for the wisdom of god in the sure foundation for all laws to stand upon , and be ministred from , and if law stand upon any other thing , or bs ministred from any other thing it cannot clearly answer truth and righteousness either in the fountain or stream , for where laws are made and ministred in a wilful resolution and purpose against a thing , the matter is mostly resolvedly prosecuted to accomplish the thing intended and by such actions and paaceedings there is no sufferer can have any benifit of the law for his own right in cases of manifest wrong , for where resolution is both rule and law it will carry the stream in its own channell with that force as nothing may stop it and this only law pretended to answer to the resolution and purpose intended . well friends , whatsoever you , or any of you may purpose or intend ageinst us called quakers , of this you may be sure that we do not purpose or intend any harm unto you , but really desire that it may be well every way with you , and in this we can approve our selves to god , and it cannot be disproved by you , for ye very well know how we have behaved our selves amongst you and towards you for many years , and you cannot justly charge us with any alteration as to our peaceable life , and civil deportment , but what we have been in love , and peace , and good will amongst you and towards you , we are still the same , for our principle doth not vary and change in its nature and life , and as we are preserved by it , to live in it we continue in the same mind and you have no cause to be jealous of us as seditious persons , or contrivers of insurrections , or any way such as would do you the least wrong or injury , or any body living , and as we have never offered injury to you , or you received any injury by us , it is certainly below you as men to intreat us evil , and we are very sure that wherein you purpose or intend any harm to us with a resolution to perform it that such purpose or intention will be much more against your selves if you do not stop the action , and as you profess christianity so it well be more honourable to your profession to cease from prosecution then to continue it , that so in your day and time the righteous and godly christians may sit under their own vine , and under thir own fig-tree in quietness and peace , for wilfull resolutions and purposes never did good unto any and if you would do good to your selves and the nation then mind humillity and the fear of the lord , for the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdome and where wisdome orders there all things goes well , but where wisdome is wanting their all things goes wrong , and therefore it is your greatest concernment to wait for gods wisdom to order you , for wisdome is better then strength , and if you take councell as is to be ordered by it then that which is wrong you will be willing to right , and that which is right you will be willing to maintain , and thereby take of all accasions by which the innocent is vexed and troubled , and that will not only bring peace to your own souls but also to the whole natios , and so both your own souls and the nation will have comfort and happiness and there every one will have the benefit of peace as they came to injoy it , and that is the onely end of this spiritual prospective glass being set to your eye , that you may look through it and see those things that will do your souls , and the nations good , but if you will shut your eye and not behold by what way good may come unto you and so follow your resolusions and purposes against the righteous , then will the lord lift up his arm against you , and when it falls it will come heavy upon you , for the lord hath often signified his mind unto you by his spirit to have done you good , you have had many tender visitations from the lords servants in whom his spirit dwelleth , and you have been faithfully warned wherein your own danger hath been concerned , and it is desired that you might regard the lord and not slight his kindness , for though he be gratious and long suffering yet he doth not set his judgement aside where his kindness is rejected , and itf you strive against him and his power and do not know it , he may in his mercy remit your offence upon your repentance when you do know it , but if ye know that it is the lord and his power which ye strive against , and that you will maintain your strife against him , then will he come upon you in his own time , and none shall be able to deliver you out of his hand , and that you may not be ignorant that it is the lord and his power that ye are striving against , wherein you set your selves against his people called quakers , it is hereby signified unto you that it is only the lord ye strive against in what ye do unto them , for it is only the lord that hath called them and separated them from the ways of men , and appointed them to meet together in his fear to serve and worship him in his spirit , and they fear his greatness and thinks upon his name , and so keeps his ordinance or observation , and what ye do unto them for their obedience and faithfuln●ss unto god , he takes it as done unto himself , and wherein you strive against them , you strive against him , and this will leave you without excuse in the day when god shall jxdge the secrets of men by jesus christ , & the lord will have a seed to serve him & worship him , in his own way when ye have spent your strength to withstand his purpose , and if you will not take notice of gamalliels councel to observe it , yet do not forget how god plagued pharoah and overthrew him for his hard heartedness , and that may bring you into a holy dread of the living god , and into a humble submission to his light and power in all concerments , and so in time be considerate in these weighty things as men of grave and sollid deportments , for here is the truth plainly set before you with great regard and tenderness both to your own souls , and to the nation . w. s. the end . a letter from an english reformed quaker, to his friend in scotland of the same perswasion: with the answer and reply thereto. j. l. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a letter from an english reformed quaker, to his friend in scotland of the same perswasion: with the answer and reply thereto. j. l. g. h. aut p. s.n., [london : ] signed: j.l.; the reply is signed: g.h. caption title. imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the henry e. huntington library and art gallery. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter from an english reformed quaker , to his friend in scotland of the same perswasion : with the answer and reply thereto . my friends , i once shewed my self bent and couragious for your principles ; yea not only so , but counted you the only apostles of our land : but being now by the grace of god convinced of your evil practices , diabolical opinions , and erronious ways , i cannot but in conscience tell you the reasons why i now leave and depart from your society , and am convinced , that no well grounded person in the principles of religion , and even those of your own faction will discommend me therefore ▪ after a serious and impartial tryal of these few following reasons ▪ but multiplicity of words being vanity , i proceed to the thing intended ; and it is this , first , whether or not do ye owne the scriptures to be the word of god ▪ ye say , ye do owne them to be such ; yet notwithstanding whereof ye deny part of them . but secondly , ye are worse than the papists ; for we cannot charge them with such a defection from the scripture , as we can charge you with ; for ye owne part of your translation , and other part thereof ye deny , notwithstanding of the curse that is pronounced against adders to the scriptures , or parers therefrom , which saith , cursed is he that addeth or taketh from the scriptures , for his name shall be taken out of the book of life . but the papists they owne their whole translation , and addeth nothing thereto , nor pareth nothing therefrom ; yet that part of the scriptures which ye owne , ye altogether misconstruct , and take it in as literal a sense , as if the scriptures were not at all myste●●ous ; but if we take them in so literal a sense , they shall seem contradictory the one part thereof to the other . as for example , when our saviour was accused and mocked by the high priests and elders , he answered nothing ; and when he was beat in the high priests hall , he checked his smiters , saying , if i have spoken evil , bear witness of the evil ; but if well , why smitest thou me ? which places conform to the literal sense thereof , seem contradictory as aforesaid . secondly , i shall treat upon brotherly love , as the first part of your misconstructions , instituted by our saviour himself , in that chapter of that epistle of st. paul directed to the ephesians , verse . which saith , walk in love , even as i have loved you . but i understand not what sort of love this can be of yours , that suppose a man should beat you , scandalize your honest name and reputation , defraud you of your goods , and seek to invade your persons , yet ye will not at all reprove him ; whereas god himself expresly commanded the contrary , saying , leviticus . . thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sin upon him , and christs own warrand for reproof in the above-cited place : but the right interpretation of brotherly love is , before ye avenge your self of your neighbour , rather suffer a double injury , remitting your cause to god , who , saith st. paul , rom. . . vengeance is mine , and i will repay it . thirdly , quaeritur , whether or not ye deny the two sacraments ? i know by my own experience that ye do so . i shall begin with the first , viz. baptism , which serves . for washing and purifying us from our sins , mat. . . . a sign and seal for ingrafting us into christ , gal. . . and christs own warrand for it , saying , go ye thorow all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . fo●●thly , ye deny also the lords supper ▪ therefore i shall speak a little to that point likewise , which is this , viz. we have christs own warrand for it , cor. . , , , . which saith , that the same night wherein he was betrayed he took bread , and after he had given thanks , brake it , and said , take ye , eat ye , this is my body , which is broken for you , this do in remembrance of me . after the same manner also he took the cup when he had supped , saying , this cup is the new testament in my blood , which is shed for the sins of many ; this do ye as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me , &c. fifthly , what say ye anent not giving thanks for your daily food ; christ was not of your mind , for he gave thanks when he brake bread , as is expresly set down in the above-cited place . i would only ask you , whether you merit any such thing at gods hands , or not ? if ye do not , then consequently ye are the most ungrateful people in the world , who will not so much as give god thanks for your sustenance . sitxhly . what say ye anent womens preaching , i find one express word to the contrary , timothy . . . suffer not a woman to teach , but to be in silence , and learn with all submission , &c. as likewise , ye suffer all persons to preach , although never so illiterat ▪ whereas the contrair is exprest , in deut. . chap. . , , and . verses . as also the word of god is to be preached by those that are sufficiently gifted . seventhly , ye deny giving honour to any person ; but jacob was not of your opinion , when he met with isaac , he embraced , and saluted him , and fell on his neck , and kissed him , gen. . chap. and verse . now my friends , ye see how i have numbered up some few errors out of many , but i content my self with those few , which may be ●●fficient ( if god will ) to reclaim you from your errors , recall you from your apostasie ; and as if it were to give divorce to that evil spirit , which hath too long possessed you ; for if ye continue in that diabolical opinion of yours , i can liken you to no other thing than wolves in lambs skins , monsters that destroys all that is sacred both in heaven and earth , and tears all in order to salvation . therfore ye should try the spirit , whether it be of god or of belial . i would we were all of one mind , and that god would break in upon your hard and stony hearts , and sow the good seed of the word therein , that ye may turn unto him : but if ye will not turn while the voice is calling , turn ye , turn ye , why will ye die ? but continue in your perverse ways , god that made you will not save you , but cast you out of his sight for ever . therefore , my friends , prevent that ●ourse by speedy repentance , and say with holy job , if i have done iniquity , i will do it no more . sir , i rest , your most humble servant , j. l. answers to that letter presented by some of the clergy against us . friend , ye talk , that ye once was a man bent upon our principles and counted us ( as ye say your selves ) the only apostles of our land ; and ye say , that ye cannot but depart from our society , upon the account of some few alledged errors , of our profession , which thou hast summed up in a sheet of paper , and in the conclusion of it , thou tells us : that if we abide in this diabolical opinion of ours , thou can liken us to no other thing than wolfs in lambs skins ; and a monster , that destroys all that is sacred , both in heaven and earth , and tears all to pieces , in order to salvation ; by which sentence and expression of your folly , thou hast committed an high sin against god , and hast put a shame upon that opinion which thou dost profess ; as if we could ascend up unto heaven , and take it by force , ( if we may so speak ) and thou likewise sayest , that we are this day an angel of light , and to morrow a beelzebub : which expression , ought rather to be spoken against your selves , than against us , for ye are always various in your mind , and can never content your selves with one and the same principle , but alters many things in the same ; whereas we are the same church to day that we were a thousand years since ; as also ye say , that suppose a man should beat us , scandalize our honest name and reputation , and defraud us of our goods , &c. we will not at all reprove him ; whereas we have christ our saviour his own example for the same , as is evident , and clearly appears in that . chap. of his gospel , written by st. matthew , , , and verses of that chapter , which says , that when he was accused , and mocked of the high priests and elders , he answered them nothing &c. and in like manner , in that fifth chapter of st. matthew at . v. of that chapter , he sayeth , whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheeck , turn to him the other also . and sicklike , ye charge us with defection from the scriptures , and calls us worse than the papists , because ye say , we owne part of your translation , and denys other parts thereof , but they owne their whole translation , which speaks forth evidently against your selves ; and by the same ●eans ye prove your selves worse than them . i say no more , but wish you may turn you from your folly , and turn you to the good old way , and we shall be one people , as there is but one shepherd . your assured friend g. h. a reply to the above-written answer . first when i set pen to paper , and compyled my last treaty in form of a letter , ( which is a short view of some few errors of that sectary called quakers , but if i have past any thing in it , i hope the reader will be candid , and judge discreetly of the same , considering the indisposition of the author ) and i thought not it should be laid open to the view of the whole world , but by reason of an confused and insignificant answer which i have received , made and composed by some of their own faction , not proceeding orderly , but first coming to the conclusion , and then to some few paragraphs thereof , whereby they may get some little shaddow of scripture at they pretend to , albeit strictè loquendo ut antea pr●d●o●tur , ye shall find the places which they have cited literall sensu sumpia nonsense , ( if i may so speak ) as is above-specified , therefore i have been forced to add this following reply ▪ wherein till ( by gods grace and assistance ) i shall orderly proceed , and add the reply ●s following . as to the first paragraph , which is the doctrine of non reprobation , ye say , that ye have our saviour christ his own example and warrand therefore ▪ which if holden as a part of your religion , it will make the scriptures contradictory the one part thereof to the other ; as for example , when our saviour was accused , abused , and mocked by the high-priests and elders , he answered them nothing ; and when he sayeth , whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek , turn to him the other also ▪ notwithstanding when he was smitten in the high-priests-hall , he checked and reproved his smiters , saying , if i have spoken evil , bear witness of the evil ; but if well , why smitest thou me ; which places seems contradictory to the other , conform to the literal sense thereof ; but strictè considerando & figurative loquendo eadem significant , as is above rehearsed . as to the second , ye say , that ye can destroy nothing that is sacred , neither in heaven or earth , whereas by your evil ways , ye draw others from the faith , and deludes your selves , and thereby heaps up wrath against the day of wrath to fall upon your selves , and adds fewel to hells fire . thirdly , ye say that ye were the same church years since that ye are yet , whereas the errors , which have risen up in the church , which ye do thereby defile , we find were not come in at the six century , neither was the church ever governed by quakers . fourthly , ye say we confute our selves in this point , viz. that ye are worse than the papists , because ye do owne part of our translation and denyes another part thereof . to which i reply ▪ that seing the papists have a translation , although somewhat different from ours , yet ownes the whole therein contained , in that respect they are better ; but ye owning part of your translation , and another part thereof denying , ye are much worse than them in that respect . but seing every person , though never so illiterate ▪ doth confute your errors , i with the eastern churches do leave you ( seing i can prevail nothing ) to wallow in your filthiness ; and i protest , and take god to be my witnes , i would by the grace and assistance of god have reclaimed you ▪ and did endeavour as far as in me lay to heal your back-slidings , but ye hated instruction and refused to be informed ; and so i fear , that that word is fulfilled on you , which sayeth , he that is filthy , let him be filthy still . finis to the respective members of the house of commons, the humble application of the people, commonly called quakers approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the respective members of the house of commons, the humble application of the people, commonly called quakers england and wales. parliament. house of commons. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] imprint from wing. a petition against the requirement to swear oaths. reproduction of the original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- apologetic works -- early works to . oaths -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - spi global rekeyed and resubmitted - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the respective members of the house of commons , the humble application . of the people , commonly called quakers . wee the said people , being a member of that body which you represent , and concerned in trade and industry , and imploying many poor in the manufactories of this nation ; as also in contributing to the charge of the government according to our abilities ; do desire and humbly crave , that our liberties , rights and properties , may be secured to us and ours ; that we may no longer be exposed to unjust and vexatious suits , nor be a prey to ill disposed persons , who take advantage against us , to prosecute and ruine us , meerly because in point of tender conscience , we dare not swear in any case ; which is in obedience to the command of our blessed lord and saviour jesus christ , as we verily believe is our duty in this gospel-day ; but hold our selves obliged to declare and testifie the truth without oath , in cases wherein our answers and testimonies may be required . wherefore we humbly entreat your christian compassion in your favourable acceptance of our petition , which is , for leave to bring in a bill for our relief ; and so to consider our suffering-case , as if it were your own , and you in our stead ; that we and our posterities , may have cause to bless the lord on your behalf . for the king and both houses of parliament. whitehead, ann, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) for the king and both houses of parliament. whitehead, ann, - . r. t. (rebecca travers), - . ellson, mary, or - sheet ([ ] p.). s.n., [london : ] signed at end: anne whitehead, rebecca travers, mary ellson [and other women]. reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- sermons -- early works to . quakers -- persecutions -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- london -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion for the king and both houses of parliament . they that are right honorable will hear , and the truly noble and gentle will bow down unto his appearance , that we know , who according to his faithfulness , has fulfilled his promises ; and as the scriptures declare , even in ●hese last dayes has powered forth of his spirit upon his sons and upon his daughters , and we with many thousands , that have received thereof , cannot but bear witness thereto , that the lord is come that searcheth the hearts and tryeth the reins , to take up his dwelling in men and women , who are obedient to his spirit and requirings find peace therein , and we dare not do contrary thereunto ; though for it we have been dealt hardly with by men , as at this day , in spoiling of our goods , and imprisoning of our bodies , and the shedding of our blood in the streets , though it could never be proved that we , or any of us , have in any kind done , or invented to do : any evil to king or people , or allow thereof ; for we are full of love and good-will unto all , and our enemies could never find any advantage against us , but in the matters of our god ; so our sufferings have been for our believing in , and obeying the spirit of truth , in which we have and do worship god every where , and we have not , nor dare we be disobedient thereto , whatever it cost us ; for by this we are sealed to an inheritance invisible and everlasting : and we have a liberty at this time to lay before you ▪ the innocency and harmlesness of all us that are brought to the obedience of this spirit , that the king , and all in the nation , may fear and bow before him , whose servants we are : o judge in righteousness you rulers in the earth , whether we should obey god or man in this matter ; for we are bold in the spirit and power to declare unto you . that he that hath required worship in spirit and in truth every where is our leader , and with us of a truth ; and they that are against us , he hath , and will rebuke . o remember , it is but a little while since this city and nation was visited with plague , fire , and sword ; and was it not when you oppressed the worshippers in the spirit ? and when you ceased your strife against them , then the lord gave you liberty to repair your losses : and so full of good-will are we unto the land of our nativity , that we must call unto you , that you might mind what the great god of heaven and earth hath made known unto us , that he hath appeared , and doth appear in this nation and kingdom , more then in any nation in the earth , that it might be cleansed and delivered from the destruction threatned by the lord , because of the great and raining iniquities therein ; and none cries louder , nor ever did sooner bring down vengeance on a people or nation , then the resistance of the spirit and light of god , w●●●ewith the lord hath visited this nation at this day ; so we cannot but beseech you to come to this spirit and light in your selves , that reconciles to god ; and we know it from all other spirits , for it is holy and harmless , and none it is can oppress or resist the appearance of it in any other : and we cannot but mind you , as bound in duty thereto , that the resistance of this spirit overthrew and drowned the old world , and as stephen told the priests and rulers of jerusalem , that had killed and put to death the prince of life , that it was because they resisted the holy ghost , as their fathers did ; and though they believed him not , and stoned him to death , yet all their wisdom and strength could not defend them from his displeasure , whom they had grieved ; and how soon destruction came on them & on their nation you know , and it is good to remember ; for it is the same god we serve , and his arm is not shortned , and there is amongst you a poor and afflicted people , to whom he hath regard ; for they dare not go contrary to his commands , nor any just command of man ; but there was a law by which some said the son of god was to be put to death ; and there has been laws in this nation , by which the best christians in the land have been martyred ; and there are yet laws , which to yield obedience to , were to disobey god , and in so doing we should hasten destruction on our selves and the nation , as the many examples in the scriptures and elsewhere makes manifest , and for us are they written , upon whom the ends of the world are come ; therefore we have been moved and constrained in the love of our god , to call unto you , even to all , from him that sits on the throne , to the meanest in authority in this nation . o that you would hear ! o that you would grant liberty of conscience , for every one to worship god , as of the spirit they come to receive understanding , according to that royal law , in doing as you would be done by ; and by this you would overcome your enemies , & strengthen your frends , and deter judgment , and lengthen your tranquility ; but if you will not hear , nor be intreated , but go on to oppress those that worship in spirit , you will be found fighters against god , & he is mighty , and will plead the cause of the innocent . this from us that would have you all to so act , and do , that you might render your account before god with joy , in the day of his righteous judgment , that hastens , and is near unto every one of you . and we cannot but mind you of the many that lie in the several goals and prisons of this nation , some four , five , six , or seven years time , being found in no other offence , when committed to prison , but their meeting to worship god : o that you into whose hands the lord hath given power to shew mercy , and set free the oppressed , would ●ear and deliver , for their groanings the lord hears and takes notice of . we , called quakers , whose names under-written are some of the many thousands of our mind with us , that cry day and night , that liberty of conscience may be given , that we may serve the lord in righteousness and holiness all the dayes of our lives , and we know the lord hears . anne whitehead , rebecca travers , mary ellson , susanna yokeley , priscilla eccleston , ruth brown , hanah talor , rebecca osgood , anne travers , sarah brush , helena claypoole , mary forster , prudence wa●shatt , elizabeth middilton , elizabeh bowman , patience camfeld , grace giner , anne raper , agnes pool , mary lawrence , anne briges , grissel tolderly , jude shipton , ellin daper , elizabeth haddock , elizabeth perkins , grace hubbert , martha fisher , elizabeth molborn , elizabeth wadley , jane more , anne stodard , lidia odes , christian clarke , anne warner , charity corn , an apostate-conscience exposed, and the miserable consequences thereof disclosed, for information and caution by an ancient woman, and lover of truth, and the sincere friends thereof, a.d. docwra, anne, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing d a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ; : ) an apostate-conscience exposed, and the miserable consequences thereof disclosed, for information and caution by an ancient woman, and lover of truth, and the sincere friends thereof, a.d. docwra, anne, - . , [ ] p. printed and sold by t. sowle, in white-hart-court in gracious-street, and at the bible in leaden-hall-street, london : . with an advertisment page. on p. [ ]: licensed, may . . "this was written against francis bugg, and contains some account of him, his origin, &c. also some account of george fox, his bulk, &c." --smith. copy filmed at umi microfilm early english books - reel lacks the final leaf. reproduction of original in: sion college library, london, and haverford college, pennsylvania. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bugg, francis, - ? -- controversial literature -- early works to . fox, george, - -- early works to . docwra, anne, - -- early works to . society of friends -- history -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an apostate-conscience exposed , and the miserable consequences thereof disclosed , for information and caution . by an ancient woman , and lover of truth , and the sincere friends thereof , a. d. london , printed and sold by t. sowle , in white-hart-court in gracious-street , and at the bible in lea●●…-hall-street , . an apostate-conscience exposed , &c. it is not unknown to many of you , what contests have been about religious concerns in this nation , and what unmerciful means have been used to bring all protestant dissenters to the church of england ; and altho' the penal statutes , allowed both a lawful and reasonable excuse , that would not be allowed , but some of the most sottish and busie men of the clergy always obstructed it , under pretence that no law was to be allowed , but in case of old age , or infirmities of body ; by which means , the magistrates that were most ignorant and busie , were meer drudges to those clergy-men of the immoderate sort , and would hear nothing of reason many times , nor suffer consciencious dissenters to speak for themselves : but our merciful god , looking upon the afflictions of his people , moved in the heart of the king , and civil magistrates , to grant tole in a do the protestant dissenting subjects of this ation , for which we are truly thankful , and i do really believe , that god hath a blessing in store for all kings that are so well disposed , as to grant liberty in the exercise of religion , to dissenting subjects , although of different persuasions in matters of religion ; 't is of greater concern than any worldly interest or profit , and will be a great means to root hypocrisie out of this nation ; for forced conformity makes hypocrites , but never makes good christians , or subjects to any prince : now liberty is granted , there can be no pretence of quarrelling with the government that is kind to them , whatsoever some have lately pretended to the contrary , which hath been some cause of my undertaking this work , to vindicate my self , and some others that are unjustly charged with matter of fact. some of the clergy ( i charge not all ) either being uneasie under the liberty granted to the people called quakers , or by reason of their ignorance of the principles of their religion , have of late years entertained a poor indegent person , viz. francis bugg of milden-hall , in the county of suffolk , to abuse and clamour against the said people in print ; but lam persuaded it will not be for their credit , i● the civil magistrate would be so kind as to bear both parties in their book , imp●●●●●● michael dalton , in his book , call'd , th●●●●●try justice , printed , cum privilegio , . exhorts the magistrates to hear both parties ; and brings several places of scriptures for it ; one more remarkable than the rest , in the eighth page , where god almighty gives you an example , exprest in these words , gen. . . in the case of sodom , i will now go down and see , if it be altogether according to the cry that is come up unto me . thus he shews the magistrate how to perform his office in true justice in the ordering the affairs of the nation . now , because the said francis bugg hath accused us of matter of fact , high crimes and misdemeanors against the government : it belongeth to the civil magistrate to take notice of such things ; and we do desire it , that they would read our answers to his aspersions , that our innocency may be cleared of what we are accused off . this francis bugg says , that he was a quaker years : he was but a poor man when he came first among us , and suffered imprisonment several times , upon the account of his religion , when he was poor ; afterward he grew rich , and increased in wealth very much , his father died , and there fell to him near l. a year , by relation ; he also purchased an estate at milden-hall aforesaid , with a fair brick house upon it , built by a knight baronet , for himself , to dwell in for his pleasure , because his estate lay in a durty country ; i knew the person that built it , he was my near relation . this f. bugg had also a great stock , he was a wool-man , and used the wool-trade , and a shop besides of cloaths and stuffs , and divers other things , and an adventure at sea , in a coal ship at ipswich , which he withdrew , because of the smallness of the profit he received by it ; this shews he was a rich fore-handed-man , and now poor , and blames the quakers of being the chief cause of it , which may be easily proved to the contrary ; neither was his sufferings more than other rich men , but still continued rich so long as he was amongst us , but being uneasie under his sufferings , he begun to contrive how to avoid them , by subtle indirect means , he writ two contentious books against us , before he conformed to the church of england ; and when he was in danger of having the statute of l. a month put in execution against him , he conformed to the church of england , and went on writing against the quakers , until he had scribled away his estate , and run many hundred pounds in debt , and now goes about a begging , with a certificate from the bishop of norwich . about the year . he came to my house at cambridge , and made great complaint of george fox , that he had brought in innovations into the church about marriages , that all marriages must be published at twice in the men and womens meetings , whereas they used to be published but once formerly ; i heard him , but did not give my judgment in this concern , but let it rest until i had inquired further of it ; at last i understood it was an order of marriage of his own recording , in the quakers meeting book in the isle of ely , and partly of his own making ( as i understood by john ainslo of over , in the county of cambridge ) he also told me that f. bugg was quarrelsome , and that he see no way to prevent it , he was so given to contention . this i can prove by his first book he writ against the quakers , that he began the quarrel , and hath continued it to this day . f. bugg came again to me , and renewed his complaints against george fox and george whitehead , that they were the cause of bringing innovations into the church , he also brought a book to me of his own writing , which he had got printed , i bought it of him , the title page was , liberty of conscience upon its true and proper ground . this book , doctor gunning bishop of ely read , and said that it was an envious thing ; but the chief matter which was the grounds of his contention was , that he would have been a ruler over the quakers to make laws for them , that all preachers should tell their names when informers came into a meeting to convict it , whether they were asked their names or no , and pay their l. fines themselves , if they were able , if poor , then money should be gathered at the meetings for that purpose ( if he were fined for a preacher ) that he might pay only his own fine , that did not exceed s. this may be proved out of his own second book , intituled , the painted harlot , &c. no quaker that i knew would consent to this . f. bugg might have kept from the meetings , if he was not free to suffer what fines the magistrate laid upon him ; for his complaints concerning the due order of marriages , that was but a cavil to cover these designs , but after we were rid of him , we have had no contention about that , or any matter in this county , or the isle of ely : but when he see he was slighted by his friends in these parts , he travelled about into other places , to make division amongst the quakers in other parts of the nation ; and so went on writing , until he had written books against the quakers , first and last , some of them are above pages , which must needs be a great charge , the printing , besides his neglecting his trade , and giving himself wholly to contention , and travelling about upon that account , until he was forc'd to fly to the clergy for relief : the bishop of norwich hath so far taken him under his special care , as to give him his charitable recommendation , and he , and those clergy-men that have incouraged him in his writing books , ought to pay his debts , and provide for his livelihood ; if they do not they must needs come of with some disgrace in this business . at that time , when f. bugg brought me his first book , i knew nothing of the grounds of his quarrel , i had not inquired into the whole business , and knowing nothing to the contrary but that he was morally honest ; he being at my house with his usual complaints against g. fox and g. whitehead , i told him , that i had not been at london many years , but i did intend to go thither in the spring , and examine the cause of his complaints . one of my sisters , hearing of my intention , sent to me to take up her lodgings , but they were to remote from my business . in the beginning of the month called april , . i took my journey to london in the stage-coach , a maid servant with me ; when i came at my inn , there met me a woman in a coach to conduct me to my lodging , she was a stranger to me , but very civil and kind to me , she told me , that f. bugg had provided me lodgings at her house ; i went along with her , it was a whole-sale mercer's house , i shall forbear to name him at length , but by t. c. i was very kindly used by him in all respects , but he was something reserved about the differences between g. fox . g. whitehead and f. bugg , but he referred me to a manuscript that lay in his ware-house , in folio , of a verry large vollume , i read in it divers times , when i was at leasure , and looked over some of it , the greatest part of what i read was about the controversies between the quakers and the clergy of the late professing times , called oliver's days ; and something concerning the magistrates also ; i told t. c. that it did little concern the present differences that was now in controversie , which might be written in a very small vollume ; he told me , he had some thoughts of printing a few of them ; i was unwilling he should be at so unnecessary a charge , which signified little or nothing ; i disswaded him from it ; i saw that it would not quit cost , to satisfie any party whatsoever , f. bugg's charges and arguments ( i take to be mostly in that manuscript ) that he hath writ against the quakers , and not proceeding from his own genius , except it be some of his fantastical whimsies and perversions , that he hath added to the work. i had never seen george fox before this journey to london , nor george whitehead but once , and that but a very short time ; i went to his house , where i met with george fox , i had but little discourse with them , the woman of the house was sick at that time , but g. fox directed me to the meeting-chamber for business , and the clerk that kept the chamber would satisfie me in any business i desired ; when i came there , he shewed me some books , one was writ against f. bugg , and some others , i looked into it , and perceived the differences were too wide for me to compose . i stay'd a month in town , in that time i writ an epistle of love and good-will to my old friends , and fellow-sufferers , in the late times , the old royalists and their posterity , &c. and carried it to g. whitehead , who got it printed for me . when i had finished my concerns at london , i paid t. c. what he asked for my bord , and he was very reasonable ; then i returned home to cambrige . soon after i came home , i writ a paper of the most material passages of the controversie that hapned in those parts where i dwelt , i sent it to t. c. aforesaid to be printed ; it was printed upon a sheet of paper upon one side only , with no person 's name in it ; t. c. sent me down about a quire of them , and disposed of the rest himself ; about a month after he sent me this paper , i received from him the same paper reprinted in half a sheet , printed on all sides , with an addition of characters , and names in it , viz. g. f's party , g. whitehead and t. ellwood , with my name to the paper ; i complained in a letter to t. c. that i was abused in printing that paper without my consent or knowledge , and to set my name to it ; t. c. writ me word , that if i would not own it , i might put out a short advertisement in print to disown it , and he would get it printed for me , and it should cost me no more than a burying-ticket , which was five shillings ; i soon sent up a quarter of a sheet of paper , with a short advertisement in it , the substance of it was , that i did disown the half sheet with the characters and names in it , and what i writ in my whole sheet was not against parties nor persons , but against the wrong spirit ; when he had received this small paper , and the s. he soon got it printed , and sent me down some of them , and writ me word , that he had carried the rest to the meeting chamber for business , and delivered them to the clerk ; therein t. c. did honestly , and shewed me kindness , but f. bugg i always found to the contrary , as may be seen hereafter . when i went next to london , i made inquiry who was the cause of the putting out the aforesaid half sheet , t. c. would tell me nothing ; i was acquainted with none of f. bugg's friends but old john penniman , i went to him to know if he had a hand in the printing the half sheet ; he said , he had seen it , but he scorned to do such an unjust thing ; the next time i see f. bugg , i examined him , if he had a hand in that piece of deceit , the half sheet that was printed without my knowledge , and my name set to it , he did not absolutely own it , nor disown it , but laugh'd , and said , that paper was true . in the year . . i had heard he had conformed to the church of england , i asked him the cause , his answer was , what will you have me do , the statute of l. a month will be put in execution against me , and i have suffered enough already ? last year he came to my house , i charged him with this , his answer was , that the statute was laid aside in the year . i told him , that was false , and that i knew that that statute was put in execution , both in cambridgeshire and suffolk , the county where he dwelt that very year . my maid was by when we had this discourse . this year he came to my house again , a clergy-man came with him , one of the fellows of sidny-colledge , i charged him with his apostacy again , and told him of what he said the year before , that the statute of l. a month was laid aside in the year . he look'd down , and said , they did not meddle with me , he had conformed then to the church of england , and that was the reason the statute was not put in excution against him , nor any else that conformed . i do intend now to take notice of some of his books , of some passages in them , but not so far as entirely to answer one of them , they have been answered already mostly ; for he writes but the same thing in most of his books , as to matters of religion and government , and writes them over and over in divers of his books , and very many times over in his late book ; i will shew one passage in his fifth book , entituled , the quakers detected , &c. this book was written two years after he conformed to the church of england . f. bugg says , the first point under consideration is , how i came to be a member of their society , viz. in the beginning they taught , that all men were inlightned , according to john . . and that this light , wherewith christ had inlightned them , was sufficient , if obeyed , to lead to salvation ; and that it was the work of the ministers of christ , to turn people from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god ; affirming that this light was a sufficient teacher , leader and guide to every believer , without the help of outward prescriptions , forms , orders and decrees of men ; upon this and the like notions , i became persuaded to try their doctrine ; and when i came to see and observe their practices , conversation and deportment in the beginning , & what simplicity and plainness attended their ministry , i was still more confirmed , that it was a dispensation of the love of god sent as a visitation to mankind : being thus persuaded , i resolved to bear the cross , and did utterly despise the shame , that attended them and their message , and was not behind any of my equals , both in doing and suffering for the testimony thereof , as some among them can still bear me witness ; and in this manner we went on for many years , and loved one another with love unfeigned ; and doubtless god blessed our meetings with the comfortable injoyment of his presence . this is a sufficient explanation of his apostacy since , it is a truth that will stand for ever , that the quakers preach , that the light and grace of god is sufficient , both to lead and bring us to salvation , if it be obeyed : for the light and grace of god are all one , tho' under divers names , 't is one principle , not divided ; if this be not a sufficient guide , i know no man is able to procure salvation to himself , or others , without it ; nor with it , except they be obedient to it ; it were blasphemy to set any man's learning or natural parts above it , or against it , neither have they any scripture to disprove the sufficiency of the light , the grace of god , except they expound one place of scripture to make it repugnant to another , which the clergy are sworn to the contrary , see the th article of the church of england ; those articles are called , the faith and doctrine of the church of england . and in the first of eliz. chap. i. an act to restore the crown to the ancient jurisdiction , over the state ecclesiastical and spiritual , and to abolish all foreign power , repugnant to the same : by this statute all commissioners are limitted , that have authority to hear and determine the offences of error , heresies , schisms , abuses and enormities , so that they shall not in any wise have authority or power to order , or determine , or judge any matter or cause to be heresie , but only such as have formerly been adjudged so to be by the cononical scriptures exprest in plain words , &c. this statute says further , that there must be two sufficient witnesses to prove the said offences mentioned in this statute , and the witness brought face to face , if the party requires it . i write this to put the magistrates in mind of this statute , and also to inform such persons as are ignorant of this remarkable law of the protestant religion . and whereas we are accused of all , or most of these crimes mentioned in this statute , by the said f. bugg , in his three last books mostly , and countenanced by the bishop of norwich , and some of the clergy , it is my request , that we , the people called quakers , may clear our selves , so as our innocency may appear to the civil magistrate , and not lie under such scandals and reproaches as we do , from every unjust charge , that may render us obnoxious to the government ; and my reason is , because the bishop of norwich , and some of the clergy , have given countenance to his quarrel against us , and some of them have given credit to what he says ; but if the truth be known , i am fully persuaded , it will not be for their credit , that have incouraged him in this work. i have propounded nothing but what is the right of every free-born subject of this nation , that the civil magistrate should understand our innocency . i believe there are but few ignorant of what we have suffered many years by a long grinding persecution , both in our persons and estates : and now liberty is granted , we stand upon equal terms of justice and right with our opposers , and in matters that concerns religion , we are accountable to god , and have as much right to common and civil priviledges as other perswasions have . we never were found in any plots or rebellions since we first appeared to be a people in this nation , but always yielded true and real passive obedience under all our cruel sufferings . i will now take notice of some passages in his three last books , the th , the th , and the th book ; the th book , entitituled , the picture of quakerism drawn to the life , there is not much in them but what may be found in his former books , which have been answered already ; for he writes the same thing over and over again meerly ; his books are without method , most-rambling stuff , not worth the regarding , had not some of the clergy countenanced him , and owned his books , which gives us occasion to take notice of them , to clear our selves of what we are wrongfully accused of . in his th book , page . f. bugg says , that there was a rumour in the country in the year or . that george fox had in one nights time languages given to him by divine inspiration ; and i did believe ( says f. bugg ) and divers others for twenty years . that he did believe it , this i know to be true ; but for divers more , i never heard of but one , and he was accounted a shatter-headed man by all that knew him . i heard this story many years ago , and took notice of it , and spoke of it to my brother g. barnadistone of clare , in the county of suffolk ; a man well known to be a wise and honest man ; i told him , that we had some shatter-brained people amongst us , and if they went on so , we should want a religious bedlam for such mad folks ; my brother replied , that it was true , there was some shatter-headed people amongst us , and the best way was to use them kindly , so long as they were morally honest ; for some had recovered , being sincerely honest , but they were not to be disturbed , for that would make them worse . i i always used f. bugg kindly , for i saw nothing to the contrary but that he was morally honest for divers years , after this , only i perceived he had some freaks and whimsies at times , which i took no notice of to him ; i saw he was a man capable of managing his own concerns well enough , and some other peoples business , if he undertook it . in his th book , the second part , page , , and . there is a letter concerning a common bank ; this letter hath no name to it in that book , but in his th book he chargeth this letter upon me ; i read over his th book twice , and did not in the least suspect it to be mine , it was so metamorphosed ; but i do not charge f. bugg with the false transcribing it ; the man is dead i writ to concernig a common bank , and i suppose it came into f. bugg's hands of late years , since the man died ; for if he had had it sooner , i suppose that it would have been printed before the year . which is the date of his th book ; the date of the letter is . after i understood he charged me with this printed letter , i sent for a cambridge man that i used to imply to send letters into harfordshire for me , that was acquainted with some of my concerns , i shewed him a copy of a letter concerning a common bank , he remembred the letter very well , for i read it to him before i sealed it , because he was concerned in this letter as well as my self , and sent it by him , he since gave me a certificate of the whole sum of the letter , which is as followeth , whereas , francis bugg hath accused the people called quakers , of having a common bank , in several of his books , printed and . by reason of a letter he has printed , that concerns ann docwra and my self , bearing date , the th month , . this is to certifie those that desire to know the truth of this concern ; that about twenty years ago , a warehouse in roystone was robbed , wherein i had above l. worth of goods , which i lost then ; soon after this loss , my friends in hertfordshire , at a meeting , gathered l. and sent it to me , towards my loss , i knowing nothing of it until the mony was brought me , for i did neither desire nor expect any mony from them ; their mony remained in my hands about six years , until my eldest son was about taking a wife , which was obstructed by one of the separate quakers , then a prisoner at hertford ; and the aforesaid l. was demanded by him , pretending it was but lent me ; there was at that time in the prison , about more of my honest friends , they all declared , that the mony was given by them , and some other honest friends : ann docwra understanding by me , how i was dealt with by the man that claimed the mony , did bid me ask him what he would do with it , his answer was , he would put it into a common bank : she soon after writ a letter to him , which she read to me , and gave it me , to send it to him , which i did , in that letter she charged him with a common bank , and none else besides him , for all the rest , of the friends in the prison , disowned his common bank ; nevertheless , lest he should make a noise for the mony , and use further means to obstruct my son's marriage , i sent him the l. some months after , he had a great loss by fire ; so that he said , he could not subsist without some help ; then some friends told him that it was a just judgment from god upon him , for defrauding me of my mony , and setting up a common bank. this is a real truth i herein testifie . cambrige , the th . day of the th . month , call'd october , . witness my hand john clement . memorandum , that whereas francis bugg saith in his book , called , a sober expostulation , &c. in the name of john peacock , &c. we have told the bookseller at st. ives , that if he sells any of francis bugg ' s books , he shall lose his trade with us . i do hereby declare , that neither john peacock , nor any other person called a quaker , forbid me selling , or spake to me not to sell francis bugg's books , nor any thing tending to that purpose . witness my hand this th . of december , . thomas stockre . sign'd in the presence of chistopher kay , john rogers . in his th book , entituled , a sober expostulation , &c. in page . f. bugg writes to john peacock of st. ives , draper , viz. why do you suffer your she-prelate , i. e. ann dockwra , to tell solemn lyes to the magistrate to serve a turn , which being by the magistrate asked , whether the quakers had a common purse or bank , she answered no ; which , said she in her letter to me , gave them great satisfaction , yet in the same letter to me , confesses to me that you have a bank , or common fund ; and that it would never be well , whilst the quakers put away their dagon , as at large in her letter to me , printed in the picture of quakerism , &c. p. , to . this is such a piece of forgery as is seldom heard of , that i should write to him about a common bank , after he had conformed to the church of england , and charge him with those things in that letter ; this is the true liberty of an apostate-conscience , to forge lyes of me that always used him kindly , and never disobliged him , until after he had printed these things , and then i reproved him sharply . i have dwelt above years in cambridge , and i can truly say , that no magistrate asked me such a question , whether we had a common bank or not ; neither had i any discourse , with any of them , about any such thing , untill f. bugg had printed this story ; then i took notice of it to a magistrate , that was then a parliament-man , him i told that the quakers had no common bank , that ever i heard of . f. bugg had the confidence to send me this th book to read ; and a short time after he came to my house , a clergy-man came with him , one of the fellows of sidny college , i charged him with this aforesaid forged letter , that he said i sent him ; he stood stifly in it , that i did send it to him ; then i asked him who that j. c. was , mentioned in the letter , he could not tell me that , then i asked him who was the man i writ the letter to , he could not tell me that also ; i suppose he did not know who i writ my letter to then ; but i told the clergy-man who the j. c. was , and so f. bugg came to know his name , and printed it in his th book ; it is the same man that gave me the aforesaid certificate , viz. john clements , of cambridge , aforesaid . i will say something concerning the prelacy he charges me with , the matter concerning a common bank , do not belong to a prelate , it concerns the magistrate only , if he had called me a she-lawyer , he had had some grounds for this ; for when i was about years of age , my father finding me reading some idle books , he took them from me , and told me he would have me read better books , and pointed to the great statute book that lay upon the parlor window , and bid me read that , and said it was as proper for a woman as a man to understand the laws , because they must live under them as well as men ; i soon applied my self to obey his commands , and was very diligent in learning them : my father was a justice of the peace , in the days of king charles the first , many years , but not afterward ; although he lived about seven years after the wars began : i have read several law-books , besides the statute-book , which were very beneficial to my self and others in the time of the persecution : f. bugg knew that i had some understanding in the laws and statutes of the land , therefore he might have given me a more rational title than a she - prelate . most of this little pamphlet is writ against g. whitehead , who hath answered most of his books , as well as such rambling stuff , full of tautologies , can be answered : g. whitehead hath so gauled him with his answers , that he is the object of his malice , in most of his books . i come now to his th book , entituled , the pilgrims progress , &c. in the front is his picture , and in the first and second page , his pedegree and education , he says his father's name was robert bugg , second son of francis bugg , who was chief constable many years ; his parents were of a good yeoman family , and lived in good repute , and brought him up in the profession of the church of england . i will say somthing concerning this matter , as it was related to me by my uncle docwra of hinton , which is as followeth , he told me that there was one bugg a serving man in the family of the docwra's ; this man debauched one of the daughters of that family when he was a servant , then stole her away and married her as was supposed : this francis bugg's grandfather was one of the posterity of the aforesaid serving man , and was a poor boy , some of the docwra's bound him out apprentice to the wool-trade , and when his time of apprentiship was expired , money was gathered in the family of the docwra's to set him up ; he grew rich , yet he was troublesome to some of the docwra's , preying upon them by indirect means , that i perceived he was much slighted by the whole family at the time i was married to my husband , which is above years ago : robert bugg ( father to this francis bugg that writes now against us ) was a melancholly down look'd man by relation , and dwelt with his son , this bugg ; some years after f. bugg was married , he arose from dinner one day and went out , and was found drowned in a water , where he had no occasion to go to that place , as f. bugg and his wife related ; i had some discourse about it with her , and other persons with him , so that they both concluded he drowned himself ; nevertheless the jury was favourable , they had no proof he drowned himself , and did not find it wilful murther ; which saved the l. a year that f. bugg boasts of in page . for he cannot prove that he had l. a year before his father's death , which was long after he came of age , although he writes of much more : it was the advice of friends to be tender to f. bugg , least some such misfortune should befall him when he was amongst us ; and that was one reason that he was humer'd in giving him certificates when he required , which he hath since printed . as to his religion , he says he was brought up in the profession of the church of england ; this i believe is not true , because he told me , many years ago , that he was a presbyterian when he came amongst the quakers : this agrees with his books , where he cavils much with e. burroughs's works , which were written against those people , when he was persecuted by them in the late professing times ; when the church of england was turned out of doors . in page . he speaks concerning our silent meetings , in the beginning of his declaration he speaks something of truth in this weighty concern , although it is not so well worded , nor confirmed by scripture texts as our preachers declares it . but afterward he goes on and makes them as ridiculous as he can , calling them schools of ignorance : there hath been much written by the quakers concerning them , and never contradicted in print , by any clergy-man that ever i heard of ; i have seen the same exercise allow'd by a dignified clergy-man in print , of late years , which he calls vigils , but it is in a more dark and unprofitable manner than they ought to be ; for he speaks of the use of them but in saints eves , or the night before a saint's day , so called . in page . he says , he hath given a mortal wound to the female government , as appears in my first book ( entitued , liberty of conscience , &c. the second part , page , , , , . ) a wilder imagination , never appeared amongst the people in bedlam . this he means by the womens meetings , which are alive and whole as ever they were ; they were set up to take care for the poor , and where there is need of them , they are in as much use as ever they were , where friends are numerous . the men cannot perform so great a work without the assistance of the women ; the women meet together to take care of the poor , and to inform the men what is wanting for that service , and agree about visiting the sick and lying-in women that are poor , and to help young maids to services , and all such works of charity : these works are ordinances of god , although men and women are his instruments to perform them . but in some places , where we are but few , and can do that service without a distinct womens meeting ; and in divers monthly meetings the men and women meet together for the care of the poor , and other services needful , and not meerly for formality sake , as f. bugg would make the world believe we do some things . f. bugg makes a great noise , in divers of his books , of the quakers address to king james , for granting liberty in the exercise of religion , and he says we have made no address to king william ; our address to king james , is as justifiable as any other perswasion whatsoever , in the d. month called may , . in a gazette i find the bishop of durham presented an address to the king in the behalf of the city of durham , and the bishop of chester ; also another address in the behalf of himself , and the clergy in general belonging to his diocess ; also the independants and anabaptists of the city of bristol , and the presbyterians also of the same city ; and it is likely there was more , for i find all these before-mentioned in one gazette , and all these addresses were concerning liberty in the exercise of religion . in my judgment they did well to incourage the king to keep his promise , for liberty in the exercise of religion is a good thing ; and whatsoever is good in it self comes from god , altho king james was instrumental to procure it ; yet it stands to this day , and there was no doubt but that king william would confirm it ; coming out of a country where liberty is allowed , and hath been so beneficial to that government ; there was no need to incourage king william in this concern : i have not seen any address made to him by any dissenters , yet i believe they are all thankful for their liberty . f. bugg says in page . that quakerism is such a sandy foundation that they are not able to produce the articles of their faith they pretend to . [ the quakers are no faith makers , they say that true faith is the gift of god only ] this shews what a quaker he was when he was amongst us , altho ' the quakers are no faith makers , yet they have the principles of their religion , contained in a small book , about three sheets of paper , entituled , truth 's principles : or , those things about doctrine and worship which are most assuredly believed and received amongst the people of god called quakers . ( and other books also ) these are our ancient principles , and hath been reprinted three or four times since i came amongst the quakers , which is above years , i bought a dozen of them at one time , and gave them amongst the most eminent of the clergy , whereof doctor gunning , afterward bishop of ely , was one of them , i desired an answer of him , and others also , but never received one from any of them ; at last a clergy-man came to my house that was related to my husband , i desired him to answer them , he promised me before he read them that he would , but when he had read them , he said that i should have no other answer than this ( that he did not intend to be a fool in print ) these principles declares that our faith is not a man-made faith : also , they treat of the substance of true religion in general . i believe there are but few magistrates , that are not priest-ridden , but may understand so much of the priciples of our religion , as to clear us of those aspersions that f. bugg has cast upon us in divers of his books , upon the account of our religion ; he charges the quakers with preferring their own books above the scriptures ; this is as false as any thing can be , for the scriptures are often quoted and expounded in our meetings , as most people that comes to our meetings can witness , but for our books they are never quoted nor mentioned in our meetings , by our ministers in preaching , that i know . but f. bugg pleads that we read epistles from our ministers , and never read a chapter in the bible ; these epistles are read after our meetings for worship are over , at the end of the meeting , and that not once in a year scarcely . in page the th f. bugg says , i have a letter by me which my cousen ann docwra widdow of cambridge , sent me , dated the th of the th month , viz. g. whitehead hath sent me one of his books , for me to read , and there is the old mony-story in it , with i know not what besides ; i was asked by an honest friend if he was not a jesuit , i answered nay , it is not solid enough for them to own , especially when they write to a solid people , there is pretty much airy conceited stuff in it . this letter is a meer forged thing , i can truly say i never writ any such letter to him , neither did g. whitehead send me any book to read with a mony story in it , or without one ; i was not so well acquainted with him then , as for him to send me books to read : but i remember f. bugg came to my house about that time this letter was dated , and complained of g. whitehead very much , and of a book he had writ that concerned him ; i remember'd i had seen such a book in our booksellers hands , but i read but little of it , because i did not buy it , but what is in this forged letter , he spoke to me then by word of mouth , and not i to him ; he calls me cousin , there is no reason for that , i am sure he is nothing a-kin to me , neither can he make it appear that he is kin to my husband , i have seen my husbands pedegree , and there is not the name of f. bugg in it . i will now take notice of something of concernment in his book , page . he says , that the preachers take mony for preaching : this is a strange story to me , that such a thing should be amongst us , and i not know it , which have been above years amongst them , and never heard any body say so but f. bugg ; a pritty many years ago , i asked him who paid them ? he answered , they were george fox ' s pensioners : this shews that f. bugg gave them no mony , for if he had he would have printed it , and the sum also , in some of his books : i can truly say i never gave any mony upon that account of preaching , neither was i ever asked for any , only upon the account of a great loss a preacher had by fire ; i gave mony upon that account : but if preachers be poor , they ought to be relieved , i know no honest friend that will see them want , or grudge what they do upon that account ; but to my knowledge some apostate quakers have done so . in page . f. bugg says , that his charges were greater to the quakers preachers in three months , than the church of england ministers have been in years . i know no reason that the church of england preachers should lye upon f. bugg more than upon others , they want it not , they have the tenth part of the increase of the greatest part of the lands in the nation , and of the labour and industry of the husband-man , and several other incomes that i could reckon : i partly know the charge he hath been at for the quakers preachers , which was sometimes a nights entertainment for them and their horses , and that not without some invitation on f. bugg's part ; but this i know , by what he said to me upon that account , that the grudged their entertainment although he invited them to his house ; he divers times told me , that the quakers were chargeable to him : i told him it was his own fault to give them entertainment , and then grudge it . after the decease of my husband , i kept a publick meeting at my house in the country , about three miles from cambrige , for about seven years , and entertained all travelling preachers , and some others also ; i did not find it so chargeable as f. bugg speaks of ; i do not think i was the poorer upon that account of entertaining preachers , what i lost was upon the account of the magistrate in the year . who plunder'd me for keeping meetings at my house ; at a time when the king , by proclamation , had granted liberty of conscience in matters of religion ; nevertheless i kept up the meeting at my house for above six years after that , until a publick meeting-house was provided on that side of the country where i dwelt , and then there was no need of my house ; so i removed to cambrige : f. bugg knows this , he hath been at some meetings at my house , and lain at my house also . in page . f. bugg says , if we look into fox's order for marriages , you may observe that he points to have the matter laid before the ministers , and therefore i shall shew you a brief testimony of one of their female preachers , a woman of note amongst them ; in a letter i have by me , &c. in the margent he quotes ann docwra's letter : this letter i have disowned before , with a certificate to prove it false , towards the beginning of this book ; it mostly concerns a common bank , and obstructing a lawful marriage by an apostate-quaker ; one that went about to make devisions amongst us , as f. bugg did ; and to his report , that i am a she-preacher , that he cannot prove , that i ever preached in a publick meeting ; i have dwelt above years at cambrige , and he cannot prove this to be true : that is not the office in the church that god hath called me to ; i have no commission from god to preach in a meeting ; our preachers have a commission from god , and they speak what he requires of them ; they know when to speak , and when to be silent : and when god requires me to speak or write i will not be silent , as i am not at this time to reprove f. bugg in writing , for abusing so many honest persons as he hath done in this wicked book . i suppose that f. bugg was not the author of some part of this book , called the th . book , for divers reasons ; for i heard that he was weeks from home when this book was written ; only he came home some times for a night or two , least his family should be at a loss for him , and think he was come to some misfortune . secondly , he was seen at oxford at the same time when this book was about writing . thirdly , it is written somthing in a better form than his former books are ; yet there is much of f. bugg's whimsies in divers places in it , but more particularly in the front under his picture , he was first courted by the library-keeper of bodleian library at oxford . see his th . book , called the picture of quakerism , the second part , page . there is a letter from the library-keeper to f. bugg , which begins thus , mr. bugg , you must needs think it strange to receive a letter from a man so utterly unknown to you , &c. it is matter of admiration , that university-men should take his books for truth , upon the credit and relation of f. bugg , being a stranger to them , and an apostate-quaker , which was never accounted good by any rational honest men , of what persuasion soever . i have read his three last books lately , and do affirm that there are as many repetitions of lyes as there are leaves in those books , only they are the same lyes written over and over again , very many times : but f. bugg met with credulous persons , for his purpose , to make a market on , to get his debts paid : for f. bugg says in his last book , that ☞ oxford exceeded cambrige in their bounty to him . it is worth the observing , and a mercy to us also , that now they have entertained f. bugg for their informer against the quakers , they are obliged to pay him out of their own purses : formerly the informers were paid out of our estates , by the spoil of our goods . i now come to answer something more that concerns my self and some others , page , . there are verses , f. bugg says , i writ of g. fox , this is false , and that he knows in his own conscience , that i have told him divers times to the contrary , in former years , and lately also , a little before he writ this last book . the verses i writ had a short declaration at the beginning , wherein a preacher is mentioned , but not g. fox , nor any other man by name : i always told him that whatsoever i writ , it was not against g. fox ; these printed verses are partly mine , and partly his own ; there is both adding and diminishing from mine in several places of them , and mis-placing divers of them ; and making them hobble like his own in the very beginning , by adding john story 's name in them ; the man that these verses did concern , was dead some years before g. fox's decease . but f. bugg says he hath the manuscript by him : that may be forged ; i writ a plain hand , easie to be counterfeited . i have several of the copies of my verses by me , and can prove that those printed verses differs from mine in divers places . i have something to say of some of our preachers , which f. bugg hath abused much in print : the first two are thomas green and samuel cater , my brother g. barnardiston's companions , in his travels beyond the seas , in the service of truth , to spread the gospel in forreign nations . f. bugg says , that thomas green was a poor mason , and now worth many thousands . but he does not say of what ; if he means pounds , i believe he does not say true ; t. green hath neither house nor land that ever i heard of upon enquiry , his wife , ellen green , had several hundred pounds given her by some of her relations , as i have often heard , which she being an ingenious industrious woman , imployed in a trade , so that between twenty and thirty years she got enough to maintain them well in their old age , now they have given over trading . f. bugg quarrels with t. green for not entertaining him at his house , when he and his wife came to london : it cannot be the custom of our preachers , to entertain every one that comes to london , although they have been entertained in their travels , when they visited the meetings in the countries where they preached ; if they should do so , their houses would be like inns. but f. bugg accuses him for not keeping one of his poor brothers ; there was no reason for that , for what ellen green got by her indudustry , should be spent by such an extravagant woman as his brother's wife was , by relation , what they gave him , he should be little the better for , his wife would devour it : but t. green kept his own mother , and his wife's mother many years , in meat , drink , and cloaths , during their lives ; and hired them a house to dwell together , and found them all other necessaries , as i have heard . i never went to london , but they always gave me entertainment , although t. green seldom came to my house in the country , and both thomas and his wife were very serviceable to me , in providing me lodgings , or any other thing i desired . samuel cater i have known about thirty years , he hath been a great sufferer upon the account of his religion , imprisoned many times , six years at one time , a close prisoner , for three years of the time not stirred out of the prison . f. bugg says , that he was a poor journey-man carpenter , and now a rich man , worth hundreds of pounds . what then , shall an industrious man work more than forty years , and get nothing ? his trade was a gainful trade , if it be wisely managed , and yet he is not a rich man ; he hath a commendable house , and the lot that belongs to it , when the fenns were taken in , at little port in the isle of ely , and two acres and a half of arable land in the fields ; and this is all his visible estate that i can hear of ; besides a small stock to carry on the butter trade , for he is a factor to send butter to london , altho' he is about seventy years of age , yet he gets his living by that trade . f. bugg makes a great noise against s. cater , about a meeting where s. c. was fined for preaching , and had his timber siezed ; but , had it again , says f. b , and had l. sent him by his friends towards his loss . that he had his timber again , appears to me to be a false story of f. b's making ; for s. cater does affirm that he never had his timber again , and that the officers sold it ; his goods in his house were siezed at the same time , them he had again , a neighbour bought them of the officers , and sent them to him : this shews what : a malicious lyer f. b. is ; and if any of his friends were so charitable , as to send him l. to help to pay debts , or to carry on his trade , they did well in so doing , better than f. b. in upbraiding him . now i come to george whitehead ; f. bugg hath vented his malice against him in an abundant manner , in most of his books , the cause whereof is , because he hath answered most of them , and laid him open effectually : it is hard to recount how bitterly malicious this f. bugg hath been against him , the slanderous lies that he hath vented against him , are hard to be numbred , his own books will witness against him , that what i say is true ; for g. whitehead , i have not known him but by report till of late years ; f. bugg reports him a poor boy , came out of the north on foot , his father dwelt in a poor cottage not worth above s. his education from his youth shews to the contrary , although i was not acquainted with him but of late years , yet i can say something to prove his education and learning in his youth , which is to be preferr'd before f. bugg's , that was but a wool-comber : george whitehead , when he was a young man , travelled in the service of truth , into suffolk . i had an aunt , a person of quality , according to the world's account ; she was a wise woman , and inquisitive after religion , and desired that a quaker might be brought to her , to discourse with . g. whitehead was brought to her , and after her discourse with him , she told me and others , that the quakers held the same opinion that her cousin barrow did , that was hanged for his religion in queen elizabeth ' s days , and that this barrow was chaplain to her grandfather , sir nicholas bacon : i heard my grandmother say the same thing , that henry barrow was her father's chaplain , and tutor to his children , whereof she was one of them ; and that the bishop of london was the chief cause of his death ; and said further , that he was a very religious good man ; and for g. whitehead , my aunt said , that she did believe that he was a gentleman born , or brought up under the same education with them , and call'd him the gentleman quaker , always when she spoke of him . in pag. , f. bugg tells a long story of stephen crisp deceased , and samuel duncon's wife of norwich deceased . i have examined the truth of this matter , and i find it to be very false , and a wicked report of bugg's raising : he names joseph carver , and thomas buddery , both of norwich , for his witnesses . since i read this book joseph carver hath been at my house , i examined him , and he said that his wife was samuel duncon's sister , and that he went often to s. duncon's house , and if there had been any thing as f. bugg says , he should have heard something of it , which he never did ; i desired him to send a letter of what tho. buddery could say in this case . tho. buddery says , in the letter he sent me , that this story is like f. bugg's old way of belying the dead as much as the living ; and says further , that sam. duncon ' s wife was well known to all her neighbours , to be a sober , honest woman . this woman was lame , and made use of a surgeon for help ; and bugg makes an evil of that also . f. bugg , in pag. . says , that stephen crisp was a poor weaver at the beginning , and died a very rich man. what then if it were so ? this does not conclude him a dishonest man : he married a second wife , that was a dutch woman , that had children by a former husband : it was said that she was very rich . she died before him ; and i have heard , that when she died s. c. gave all she brought to him , to her children , and did not inrich himself by her , therefore i have no reason to believe that he died a very rich man. he was a good lawyer : i have made use of his counsel , and it was very beneficial to me ; but he took no mony of me for it . he was guardian to many orphans , and their estates , which he managed with much industry and honesty for the benefit of the orphans . this i have heard from divers credible persons . george fox is much quoted in f. bugg's books , for making laws for the quakers . this i must needs say , that he was a very wise man , and a man of great courage in what he undertook , and always successfull , although he had many enemies to oppose him , as well apostate quakers as others . i never heard that he was worsted in any thing he undertook : he was an instrument in the hands of the lord , to set up meetings in all countries in this nation , to take care of the poor amongst us , and poor ministers who travelled beyond seas , to be relieved with such necessaries as they wanted , and this is the reason that f. bugg calls them g. fox's pensioners . f. bugg knows , if he would speak the truth , that we have no common bank to go to , but only occasional contributions for charitable and necessary supplies : neither hath he any grounds to surmise it , only this false letter that he hath printed , which he cannot prove to be a true copy of what i writ ; but i can prove it a meer cheat put upon us by f. bugg , or some of his confederates . f. bugg says , that g. fox was a poor journeyman shoemaker , and died worth abundance : i have heard that he did not die so rich as f. b. reports ; but he was an adventurer at sea , and might get something considerable by that , if he used it many years : f. bugg says , he lived in as much plenty as any knight in england : i do not believe this ; i have heard this story formerly from f. bugg . i had a desire to know how he fared : some years before his decease , i being at london , and understanding where his lodging was , i went about dinner time ; when i went into the room where he was , i found him sitting down to dinner , his meat was upon the table , it was only a piece of very salt beef , as big as a man's fist , it was cold meat : i sate down by him until he had dined , but did not eat with him , i did like his dinner so well : he had no wine , his beer was said to have wormwood in it : i did not drink with him neither ; and this is the whole bill of his fare at that time : i had heard before , by one of my brothers that was well acquainted with him , that most of his diet was salt beef when he could get it , and wormwood stampt and squeezed into his beer . after he arose from dinner , he made a short declaration to me , the substance of it was , that i should not look at him , but look to the light and grace of god in my own heart , the appearance of that would teach me more than man could teach me , that would shew me who were god's friends , and who were his enemies , if i were obedient to it , and did wait in silence for god's teaching . this was no more than what i knew before , and had had some experience of it , nevertheless i kindly received his instructions , and so we parted . i do not intend to rehearse the whole matter of bugg's charge against g. fox , i will not trouble my reader with tautologies that have been answered already , but i will say something more of a new charge against g. fox , the strangest lye that ever was heard of : pag. . that he was , some years before his decease , like a statue or unsensible image , which could scarce see or understand , being grown so corpulent in bulk as two or three men , and so dozed away his time with strong liquors and brandy , who left these words for william rogers , john rance , ann docwra , and others , who have opposed his tyranny and usurpation . for w. rogers and j rance , they are wholly strangers to me , a. docwra , only i read some part of a book that w. rogers put forth : i did not like it , there was many of f bugg's cavils in it against g. fox and g. whitehead : for my own part , i never knew any tyranny or usurpation by g. f. i did not see him for some few years before his decease , yet i always observed him much when i was in his company , because his enemies made a great noise of his bulk . he was pretty tall of stature , and a very great bon'd man in my judgment , but his face was not so fat as some fat mens faces are , by much ; his hands were stiff and swell'd , so that he could not well write in the latter part of his days ; his limbs were stiff , i could perceive that by his rising up and siting down , it is likely his body was swell'd , i have heard him speak to that purpose ; he wore loose garments always when i saw him , that i cannot discribe his bulk , but i could perceive that he was somewhat burly , but not as f. bugg describes him . and for his doziness and insensibility , that many hundreds can witness to the contrary ; for in less than three days before his decease , he preached in the meeting in white-hart-court in gracious-street , he preached before a great congregation of people , and prayed also : in his declaration it is credibly reported , that he opened many weighty truths , to the refreshment of many of the hearers , with as much power and clearness , as at other times ; and when he came out of the meeting , he was taken ill , and soon took his bed , and deceased on the third day following , in the same week . this is upon record , see g. f's journal , p. . now i come to page , , . f. bugg says , that george smith of little port , having a wife of his own , since dead , being bailiff for a gentleman in the same town , whose wife was a handsome young woman ; g. smith in time grew very kind to his wife , the gentleman falling sick , gave his wife warning of g. smith , he dying , there was room for him to accomplish his design . this looks like a feigned story , that a man should entertain g. smith for his bailiff to his dying day , and be jealous of him concerning his wife , and not put him away before . f. bugg goes on with a long formal story , more than he can prove by half ; he says , that the widow had two children by g. smith ; the woman was well known to all her neighbours to be a light woman , as the general report goes ; so that no body could truly say who was the father of her children . nevertheless , g. smith was so honess , as to own that child that he thought might be his ; and it was made publick by g. smith's friends and neighbours . after this g. smith did acknowledge his offence , and it is really believed , that he did sincerely repent ; for he caused his repentance to be recorded in our quarterly meeting-book , at hadnam , in the ille of ely , and set his name to it . there was a man in the town that would have married this widow at the same time , when she was with child ( with that child that g. smith owned ) but it was put by then by her self , or some other persons ; but she happened to be with child again , and then the same man married her , that would have married her when she was with child before ; but the common report goes , that the child she was withal , when she married , was neither g. smith's , nor the man's she married ; but the woman was rich , and that preferr'd her to a husband . it is said , that she lives honestly and soberly with the man that she is now married to , they are no quakers , so called , neither the man nor the woman . after i read this story of f. bugg's , i made strict inquiry by credible persons , and have made a true relation , according to the account i received , although i knew most of it before . this g. smith i am acquainted with , and will give this character of him , as most understanding men in little port do say , that he is a man of excellent parts to manage any business concerning estates ; he has been guardian to many orphans , and their estates . not only quakers children , but people of other perswasions , have made him guardian to their children's estates also ; and he hath performed his trust with so much honesty and industry , for the advantage of the orphans , that he hath gained great reputation , in the town where he dwells , and country thereabouts : i will vindicate him further , by a warrantable example of david's sin and repentance : for if there had been no more recorded in the holy scriptures of david but his adultery , he would have been esteemed a worse man than g. smith , because of the known murder ; but true repentance wipes away the reproach of man's sin , out of the sight of god and good men. but f. bugg says , the boy the widow had , is like g. smith , which he does not own . it may be never the more so for bugg's say so , and if it were supposedly so , that is no certain rule : there may be a secondary cause of likeness after a child is begotten , whosoever reads f. malebranch , that famous french man , in his search after truth , which is the title of his book , may find therein many excellent things , both divine and natural ; but i do not justifie all that is in that book , but do approve of many things in it ; he hath a pretty large discourse of the accidents that happens to a child in the womb of a woman , after it is begotten , in producing different likeness , with remarkable arguments upon this subject . that which makes me the larger upon this subject , is to shew f. bugg's malice to so near a relation as g. smith is to him ; they are cousin garmans , own sisters children : this shews f. bugg's ill nature and folly , in making such a noise , to render so near a relation rediculous ; but some cause of it is plainly to be seen , in his malice against g. whitehead , because he said , that g. smith was a well-meaning man , one that hath lived uprightly ever since he came amongst us . f. bugg can prove nothing to the contrary , when g. whitehead writ this relation of him , nor any body else that i know of ; but it is really believed he was really so then , this that g. w. hath written , was some years before g. smith's failing , and we doubt not , but that his repentance will shew forth , that he hath a real principle of sincerity towards god and man at this day . in bugg's picture of quakerism , the second part , page . the university library-keeper of oxford promised f. bugg , that his books shall be received into the university library at oxford ; and there be preserved , and his donation shall be particularly registred amongst other benefactors : if it may be permitted , the book , called , the cobler of glocester , may be registred also : that book shews the vices of many of the clergy , and points at them , naming their names and habitations ; which those clergy-men mentioned therein , never refuted , or took notice of , nor any body else for them , that ever i heard of . f. bugg in his pilgrims progress , page . in the margent says , about four years thereof , i was in their community labouring for a reformation . his book , called , the painted harlot , &c. shews that his labour was to get mony when he was fined for any preacher , of whomsoever he could get it , amongst us ; he got l. of his cousin g. smith aforesaid , by fraud , upon that account , that was no preacher ; this i know to be true , he hath confessed it to me , and printed it also , and covered it with bold excuses , as much as he could . f. bugg was fined for a preacher l. and got it by fraud of his kinsman aforesaid ; the justice that fined him , gave him l. of the mony back again , this he concealed divers years , until edward swanton , the priest of the town , where the meeting was fined , discovered it , and gave a certificate under his hand , that the justice told him that he gave f. bugg l. of the mony again , that he was fined for , at that meeting at lacking-heath in suffolk , but f. bugg says , that edward swanton the priest was a bad man , and not to be believed : and that the justice gave him the l. upon another account . i have heard that the justice was dead , before this controversie was on foot : f. bugg is now in the church of england , and would have the priests believed in the pulpit , but not out of the pulpit , except it is for his interest : it is likely that this edward swanton did give this certificate meerly out of conscience , when he heard that f. bugg had defrauded his kinsman of the whole l. upon the account of that meeting , and had concealed the l. that the justice gave him back , a short time after the justice had the l. in his hand . in pag. . f. bugg brings divers certificates to clear himself of several things , whereof one is as followeth , viz. that f. bugg neither is , nor ever was distracted nor discomposed since any of us can remember him , or that ever we heard of . this is the worst character of him that his friends could give : but if he be not shatter-headed , and discomposed in his mind : he is one of the greatest deceivers and lyers that this age hath produced : but my judgment is more favourable . i know , by the discourse i have had with him lately , that he is disturbed in his mind beyond all reason , if he be crossed in any discourse or writing against him , and then he knows not when he speaks truth , and when he lyes : when he first writ against us , some friends told him that he writ lyes : his answer was , that his pen would run too quick sometimes ; and now lately , i told him of some passages in his books , that he had made false quotations out of our books , and mentioned one to him out of edward burrough his works , where he had rambled above a hundred pages , and gathered up words , and made one intire paragraph of them : his answer was , that that was by way of paraphraise ; so at first , when he writ lyes , his pen run too quick , and now his lyes are paraphraises , and such crafty , or rather crazy foolish stuff his books are composed of , if he had been well in his wits , he would not have scribled away a fair estate , and run many hundred pounds in debt , beside to no purpose : i really believe , all that he lost by the quakers , does not amount to l. see page . where he names their names , and the sums also ; but in page . f. bugg says , that the quakers are the chief cause of my misfortune , not only in respect of controversie , but six or eight breaking in my debt . if they had been real quakers , he would have named them every man , for he writes at large upon such matters ; but to my knowledge , there was some that died in his debt that were of his own fraternity , that went about to make division amongst us : it was his restless spirit , and shattered head that was the cause of his misfortune : they that are well acquainted with his books , may perceive it : in the title page of divers of his books shews his wild fancy , i will quote some of them . his second book , the title page , the painted harlot stript and whipt , &c. the title page of some of the rest ; his th book , battering rams against rome , &c. his th book , one blow more against new rome , &c. his th book , new rome unmasked , and her foundation shaken , &c. his th book , new rome arraigned , and out of her own mouth condemned , &c. this book is the strangest fiction that ever i read . his th . book , a second summons to the city abeb , by way of metaphor , deliver up sheba the son of bichri , sam. . i. e. george whitehead by name : this shews his malice against g. w. i know of a certain , that shatter-headed people are very malicious , and not to be qualified ; and the reason is , because their imagination works so strong , that it serves for nothing but to make a grave for their reason . i have something to say concerning edward burrough , one of our preachers ; he was before my time , i not being acquainted with him , only by reading his books , where i find him to be a man , both for natural and supernatural parts , extraordinary well qualified . but f. bugg says , that he finds in his works , that he said , that the sufferings of the quakers were greater than the sufferings of christ and his apostles . there is something upon record to that purpose , as i understand ; and this was in oliver's days , which he did say , that the quakers sufferings were worse , in some respect , than the sufferings of christ . and his reason was , because the jews pretended law for what they did ; and the quakers sufferings were very much upon the account of small trivial things , and no law , so much as pretended : although no quakers do justifie this passage , yet it may be excused in some measure , and that according to truth . some of the best of men have broke out into passion under sufferings ; and e. burrough's sufferings were great at that time , not only for himself , but seeing so many of his innocent friends under great afflictions and sufferings : under the agony of sufferings the best of men have shewed much weakness and passion , when god had forsaken them , or hid his face from them , for a short time . and this was witnessed by job , and the prophet elijah , and others , our saviour christ upon the cross , when he cried out , under the agony of his suffering , my god , my god , why hast thou forsaken me . now god's hiding his face from the best of men , for a short time , was his love to mankind , to shew to man his weakness , that no flesh should glory but in the lord. but f. bugg , and his clergy , makes a great noise to have us retract our books , if they can prove error in them ; we have answered what they can charge us withal already , and will do further if god almighty requires it ; but will not concern our selves with f. bugg , and his clergy , any further than god requires us to do . our books are a testimony of the sufficiency of the light and grace of god in our hearts , to bring us to salvation , if it be obeyed ; to it we have many testimonies : for that , and our sufferings upon that account , which we shall preserve , god willing , that the generations to come may rejoice in our testimony , as we do rejoice in the testimonies of the suffering people of god in all ages , under what denomination soever they are recorded : for such people injoyed a large measure of the light and grace of god in their hearts , that bore them up above all their sufferings , in a publick testimony in all suffering times ; which do witness , that such people are the chosen people of god , to set forth his praise from one generation to another . i am now come to the bishop of norwich's certificate . these are to certifie , that i have known francis bugg some years , and that he hath appeared to me a sober , honest and industrious man , and that he hath taken much pains to undeceive and convert the quakers , by publishing useful books , and that not without success ; but by the hardness of times , several losses , and the charge of printing the books he writ , he is reduced to great difficulties . therefore i apprehend him a real object of charity , and that he doth truly deserve the bounty of well-disposed persons , unto whom i recommend him . october . . john norwich . it will be matter of admiration to all inquisitive people , when the real truth of this concern is known ; that a bishop of the church of england should appear so publickly to vindicate f. bugg , and his books , which the bishop calls useful , and that f. bugg hath taken great pains to undeceive and convert the quakers , and not without success , &c. this were a matter of great concernment , if it were true . i intend to take notice of the several passages in the said certificate . first , as to his honesty and industry ; if he had been honest and industrious , as the bishop says , he would not have lost his time , and neglected his trade , for near twenty years , as i can make it appear out of his own books , and spent a good estate in scribling against the quakers , to no purpose , as will further appear ; and run many hundred pounds in debt , more than he was able to pay ; and his creditors must needs have lost much money by him , if this project , with the bishop , and some of the clergy , did not take ; which was a thing doubtful , by his own confession . in his th book , p. . there may be much more said upon this account , i will instance but few of them . in or about the beginning of the year . he married his daughter , made great feasting and entertainments , that was said to be very chargable , and promised l. portion with her , upon the marriage : and at the same time he was indepted many hundred pounds more than he was worth . he also gave bond , to make his wife a jointure of some part of his estate , which he hath since sold to his son. these things he has confessed to me and others . and a few months after the aforesaid marriage of his daughter , he broke , and was sculking about in the isle of ely : he then writ to me to conveigh a paper-parcel to milden-hall for him ; the letter bears date as followeth , june , saturday the th or th day , . when i received this letter , i was much surprised , that f. bugg should make such a request to me , which had held no correspondence with him for above twelve years , nor so much as read any of his books in that time , only i had seen the answers to them . this request to me , i looked upon as a trapan , that he might have some colour to pretend , that i was one of his party in print . i did not intend to concern my self with any of his paper-parcels , if they had been brought to me ; and i writ to him an answer to that purpose : and in my letter i reproved him for his apostacy also . so i cleared my self of his concerns at that time . these aforementioned things , concerning his daughter's marriage , his defrauding his wife of her jointure , and scribling away that which should have pay'd his debts , shews that the bishop lies under a great mistake , as to f. bugg ' s honesty and industry . the bishop , in his certificate , further says , that f. bugg took great pains to undeceive and convert the quakers , by publishing useful books , and that not without success . this is a matter of great concernment , if it were true : i and many more can witness , that he neither proved us in error , neither were we so far influenced by f. bugg , as to give credit to what he writ ; although f. bugg counted me to be one of his proselytes in his th book , pag. . where he says , that i opposed g. fox ' s tyranny . i never had any controversie with g. fox , from the time i was first acquainted with him , to the time of his decease : and when i had heard the controversie on both sides , i found that there was many lyes forged of him , which made me pitty him , and have the better esteem of him . i never heard any of the separate quakers that opposed him , except f. bugg say , that he was a tyrant . but some of them have said to me , that now in his old age , he was childish and wilful : i did not perceive any childishness in him after that , but i pleaded , that g. fox had done much service for truth ; and if i had a dog that had done me good service , i would not hang him in his old age , nor use him ill when his service was at an end ; that shewed an ill nature to do so : but to return to my former discourse , of what proselytes f. bugg hath made amongst the quakers , i have as good intelligence as the bishop , in our own concerns , and i hear of none that owned f. bugg , or his books , except he counts those that conformed to the church of england in the time of the persecution , to save their estates ; and they may be more properly accounted the persecuting magistrates , and the bishop's proselytes , than f. bugg's ; yet i never heard that those people owned f. bugg's books . but f. bugg may plead , that there are some separate quakers that own him and his books ; that was before he conformed to the church of england , that many of them did own his first book , and his second book was owned by some of them ; which occasioned me to write to one of them , of my acquaintance , that f. bugg had written lyes in his second book , to give the separatists warning of him . i believe it will be hard for the bishop and f. bugg to produce five persons that ever was quakers , that do own any of his books , that have been written for these last seven years , and more , even those that were called separate quakers . it is true , that he spent his time and estate in making divisions amonst us ; and a separate meeting was set up in london , which continued divers years , called , harp-lane meeting ; but have been disolved about two years , and those people , excepting a very few , comes now to our meetings , as i understand . there are divers honest people amongst them , they might see the inconveniency of separate meetings , and withdraw from it ; which might happen by george keith , and some others , making divisions amongst them , by rasing new notions of religion , which was not entertained amongst most of them ; but they held the same principles , as to religion and worship , as we do ; although f. bugg says to the contrary , but he does not say true , for i was at one of their meetings , and there was two preachers , and they preached the same doctrine that all other quakers do , the differences that f. bugg raised at first , was about some particular men , that was owned by some , and dis-owned by others , about church government : f. bugg and some others were for liberty without true measure , this was rantisnt , as appears by f. bugg's own books ; there came down from london some orders for church government , that were friendly recommended to us about several things : but that which was made a controversie of , in these parts : was , an order to prevent clandestine . marriages , and some other necessary things : also , men and women's meetings that should take care for the poor . this was all the principal matter of f. bugg's quarrels ; and not about any of our principles of religion : i heard his complaints often , and they were only these things i have here inserted ; i did not contradict him , lest i should disturb his head , and set him a scribling against me , at a time when i was not willing to enter into controversie with him , to put him to charges , it concerned others at that time , that he had much abused in print , to take him in hand . and although i declined him then , yet there is now a bishop and some part of the clergy , that have not only countenanced him , but incouraged him also ; which hath imboldened him to be so insolent , as to charge us in general , and me in particular , with crimes that are meerly his own invention , which will not stand with his bishop , or clergy's reputation , if things be rightly understood . see his pilgrims progress , page . in the margent , where f. bugg says , i told a lye to the magistate , with design to deceive , as bad as perjury : altho' i have cleared my self , and my friends , as to matter of fact , in this case , in the fore-part of my book ; yet there remains a further consideration in this point , that we may have some satisfaction from f. bugg's bishop and clergy , if they do not make good f. bugg's charge , against me and others , by credible witnesses , which is no less than the laws of the land requires : it is a disparagment to my friends and relations , to have one of them no better than a pillory'd person . i and my husband , and my father also , were of the old royallists , and suffered much in the time of the civil wars in england , in the days of king charles the first , upon the account of loyalty : therefore i thought good to let the bishop of norwich know , what my family and relations are ; not out of any ostentation , but to give some satisfaction to my friends and relations , that i am so much abused , and stand upon record no better than a perjured person in f. bugg's books , and the bishops certificate countenances it . i was the eldest daughter of william waldegrave , of buers , in the county of suffolk , son and heir to sir william waldegrave the younger , so called , because sir william his father , and he , deceased both in less than a years time , as i have heard my grand-mother say , it was an ancient protestant family : i heard my great uncle , my father's uncle , henry waldegrave , say , that his grand-father , sir william waldegrave , was persecuted in queen mary ' s days , by the bishop of norwich , and so closely beset by his emissaries , that he did not go home to his house , but was fed in his tenants barnes , until he got out of the bishop's diocess to a house he had in another place , where he ended his days in peace . now is a time of liberty , that we are not persecuted in our persons and estates , as we have been formerly ; yet we are persecuted , even to the murdering of our reputations , altho' we were never found in any plot or rebellion , against the government , since we first appeared to be a people in england , under the name of quakers , that i ever heard of ; yet some men are so uneasie at our liberty , and restless , as appears by some of the clergy , that they have entertained such a wicked emissary , as this f. bugg is , whose desperate fortune hath made him so resolute , that he is not ashamed to abuse and scandalise a great body of people in general , and vent whatsoever the devil puts in his heart , who is the father of all lyers , and those that incourage them also . yet it is the desires of our hearts , that they may come to repentance and amendment of life , if it be god's gracious will , that we may live peaceably in this day of the visitation of our blessed lord and saviour jesus christ , wherewith he hath visited us , by his light and grace in our hearts and consciences , to bring us to salvation , and not to have any dependency on any fallible or blind guides ; for as the apostle says , cor. . . for if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound , who shall prepare for the battle ? now a true christian's life , is a continual warfare , against the enemies of their souls , and they ought to put on the armour of light , rom. . . this is the infallible guide to those that live in obedience to the teaching thereof ; this is the gift of god , that he hath given to all mankind , to lead them into the way of righteousness , if man do not resist it , or be not lead out from it , to follow the devices and desires of his own heart , to imbrace the delights , vanities and deceits of this wicked world , which is the cause that too many have laid down their heads in sorrow , altho' they have had all the injoyment this world could afford . i have a request to my reader , that he would not be biased by any interest , but sincerely mind the light and grace of god , in his own heart and conscience , and then shall my end be answered in what i have written ; and that the bishop of norwich may read the ancient principles of our religion , in the light , and if he find any error in them , to shew it us in love ; and if he find none , to give a testimony he owns them to be true ; which is the satisfaction that i desire , for my self and my friends , for all the uncharitable censures and defamations he hath at unawares given credit to ; by owning and incouraging f. bugg's abusive books , full of mis-representations against us , that desire to live peaceably with all men. our ancient principles are inserted before in this book , i may repeat them that they may be known more amply in this place , 't is entituled , truth 's principles : or , those things about doctrine and worship , which are most surely believed and received amongst the people of god , called quakers . these principles are a declaration of the light and grace of god , which shews that that is the quakers teacher , and belief concerning doctrine and worship ; but this is accounted a dangerous principle amongst those teachers , that keep people always in teaching that they may be always paying them : these would spoil their trade , if people would come to be taught by the light and grace of god in their own hearts and consciences , which is my desire for all mankind , that they may no more be led away by the craft and subtelty of those men that make a money trade of religion , and are always obstructing the blessed light and grace of god , which would shew unto all mankind , the true and real way to salvation , and will no ways deceive them that be obedient to it , which will give more satisfaction to the humble and contrite heart , than all worldly injoyments , which is witnessed by me and many more that have had full experience of it , and desire that all mankind would be so kind to themselves , as to make their calling and election sure , by being obedient to it : farewel . your unfeigned friend in the light and grace of our lord jesus christ , ann docwra . cambrige the th day of the month called december , . finis . books printed and sold by t. sowle , in white-hart-court in gracious-street , and at the bible in leaden-hall-street , near the market , . an epistle of love and good advice to my old friends and fellow-sufferers in the late times , the old royallists and their posterity , and to all others that have any sincere desires towards god. by ann do●wra . a defence of a paper , entituled , gospel-truths , against the exceptions of the bishop of cork's testimony ( against the quakers . ) by w. penn. price bound . s. the tryal of spirits both in teachers and hearers . wherein is held forth the clear discovery and certain downfal of the carnal and anti-christian clergy of these nations . testified from the word of god to the vniversity congregations in cambrige . by william dell , minister of the gospel , and master of gonvil and cai●… college in cambrige . whereunto is added , a plain and necessary confutation of divers gross errors delivered by mr. sydrach sympson , in a sermon preached to the same congregation at the commencement , anno mdcliii . wherein ( among other things ) is declared , that the vniversities ( according to their present statutes and practices ) are not ( as he affirmed ) answerable to the schools of the prophets in the time of the law ; but rather to the idolatrous high places . and that humane learning , is not a preparation appointed by christ , either for the right vnderstanding , or right teaching the gospel . with a brief testimony against divinity-degrees in the vniversities . as also luther's testimony at large upon the whole matter . and lastly , the right reformation of learning , schools and vniversities , according to the state of the gospel , and the light that shines therein . all necessary for the instruction and direction of the faithful in these last times . price bound s. d , a rod for trepidantium malleus, or a letter to sam. reconcileable keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a rod for trepidantium malleus, or a letter to sam. reconcileable keith, george, ?- . , [ ] p. printed, and sold by m. fabian at mercers chappel in cheapside, london : . by george keith. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng trepidantium malleus -- early works to . society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a rod for trepidantium malleus , or a letter to sam. reconcileable . clodius accusat moechos . simulata sanctitas duplex iniquitas . london , printed , and sold by m. fabian at mercers chappel in cheapside . a rod for trepidantium malleus , or a letter to sam. reconcileable . sir , coming not long since into a coffee-house , i happen'd to seat my self at a table with three or four that were very eager in discourse , and i soon found you was the subject . one that pretended to have read your books , and had enjoy'd some of your conversation , would not be persuaded but that the glimps of knavery was easily discoverable through your fool 's dress , and that there lay some bad design lurking at the bottom ; whilst another thought it was too natural to be a disguise , and that you had no occasion for a mask to act that part : a third , to reconcile the other two , would needs have you a compound of both . these comments drew from me my opinion , which was , that you had too much learning for a fool , and too little wit for a knave , but was stark staring mad , had got off your shackles , and deserted the college . and to this , upon mature deliberation , they seem'd to assent , and very affectionately began to pity your condition . what thanks i shall have for my pains , i know not , i doubt but little ; especially should you chance to be of the same mind with one not long since try'd for murder , who when some of his friends would have insinuated to the court , that he was non compos mentis , in order to save him , contradicted it , and was very angry at the reproach ; he stood upon rep — and would rather be hang'd than be thought a mad man ( i 'm sure had i been one of his jury , i should have found him so ) and if you are in the same case with that gentleman , ( notwithstanding all your invectives against the party ) you 'l be found a rank antinomian , for you will be out of the reach of the law. and now i 'm mentioning the antinomians , by the way i cannot but give you a hint of your horrid character of dr. crisp ( whose memory deserves respect for his piety ) and your abominable ridicule of the work of conversion , in salem ben sholomoh the jew , in such fulsom language , that he that has the largest extent of charity , can hardly judg you to have undergone the operation . and indeed that consideration takes off some of the surprize raised by your scurrilous , base and profane reflections upon the administration , and administrators of an ordinance of god. if they are in the wrong , they ought to be us'd with candor , and civility , and not to be burlesqu'd , and so scandalously reproach'd with ill language , and false stories , especially by one who has express'd so great a respect for ' em . ludere cum sacris , was ever abhorr'd by all meer moralists ; and shall one of the ministerial function be guilty of it ? a man that would be thought so mightily gifted that way , that he takes the liberty to find fault with , and run down almost , all as parcel of pulpit quacks : one that will undertake to bring up a boy of twelve years old to preach better than most of the baptists about the town , &c. and sayst thou so sam ? then thou art like some clumsy-heel'd dancing-masters , that can teach their scholars to perform better than themselves ; for thou never didst mount the pulpit in thy life yet , without proving the truth of a saying that is often in thy mouth , viz. that it is not so easy a thing to preach , as some people think it to be . perhaps you will not believe me , neither indeed can i reasonably expect you should , when i consider the good opinion you have of your self ; but , sir , tho self-conceit may have a very prevalent sway in the concavity of your cranium , 't is strange it should sprout out in such self-applause as both your books and discourses are continually larded with ; especially , that being one of the great crimes laid upon mr. baxter by your self , and for which you so severely lash'd him . pray read over that part of your book against baxter which touches upon that subject , and learn to chastize your self thro the sides of another . i remember some time since , when mr. jacobs said , the baptists went down into the water with the women only to feel 'em , &c. your spirit was very warm , and you mighty zealous in upbraiding him for it , and could say , ( nay , and print it too ) none but a debauchee would have been guilty of such stuff : so that your last book calls you debauchee to your face , and we dare believe it in that , tho not in many things else . i could not have expected from a man of your years ( and a conjunction copulative too ) such things as are charg'd upon you , had i not heard that your wife ( and in that she 's a happy woman ) must lie alone ( and has done ever since her reign ended , and your tyranny began ) you having something to teach the young men in bed. either physicians are in the wrong , when they say 't is unwholsom , or some people don't do well to advise the young men to lie upon their backs , with their hands by their sides , whilst they read lectures upon some of the outer parts , and set the poor things a gog ( by their negative advice ) after what they might happily otherwise not think of ; but i hope they have wit enough to consider who they make their confessor . how old ? how many times ? when last ? &c. are questions to be very cautiously answered , notwithstanding a promise they won't tell . in short , sir , there are some things buz'd abroad concerning you that are almost incredible , and hardly to be imagin'd should be done by such a one as you would be thought , or indeed by any other that had not laid a caustick to his conscience , or gotten the fly-flap of formality to keep away the flies from stinging it . what man but your self ever had the face , or could be imagin'd impudent enough to appear in the world against the pretended immodesty of an ordinance ( as you have done ) unless he could wipe himself clean from such reflections as have oft and again been cast upon you sir flog-well , and still stick close to you ? good pedagogue , you can never pretend your discipline ( as you call it ) is for the correction of your scholars , but rather calculated for the meridian of your own diversion ; for what punishment is there in the stroak of a feather , or why should you ring the bells , , , , , . upon the boys bums ? prithee , why so many at once ? one such object is enough at a time ; so many , one would think , should distract your weak opticks , and make you as wild in your senses , as you are in your understanding . and indeed , sir , i cannot forbear finding fault with your method as well as your manners , and censuring your prudence as well as your modesty ( i don't say chastity ) 't is highly reasonable to think , that young men of twenty or thirty years of age , should better be wrought upon by persuasion , than bum-brushing . but remembring you are a mighty lover of stories and verses ( which , as they are surreptitiously scrap'd up here and there , are as odly jumbled together , and profusely and blunderingly flung away , without design , and to no end in your books ) be pleas'd kindly to accept of such as may chance to drop from my pen. a certain apothecary sends his man to administer a clyster , that was prescrib'd by a physician , for a gentleman his patient , who was sorely afflicted with the head-ach ; the man enters the gentleman's chamber , who demands who 's there ? answer is made , the apothecary . what has the doctor order'd me ? a clyster , a clyster ! quoth the gentleman , you villain , you rascal , the doctor 's a fool to send a thing to put in my a — to cure my head , and so drove him out of the room . what lines of communication you have found out between the head and tail of a scholar , i know not ; but it seems very preposterous to suppose , that diminishing the podicical covering , should increase the understanding . i doubt birch-clysters don't work kindly : a patient's fancy does very much assist the doctor 's endeavours ; and therefore i doubt you have but little success in your practice , because your patients cannot be persuaded into a good opinion of their physick , for they have a natural aversion to pain . i find you are one of co — atch's followers , your medicines are all acids . and now , sir , having considered your case , i find distraction the best excuse i can make to my self and others , for these enormous excursions of your nonintellectuals ; which makes me a little commiserate your case , and heartily advise you in your very next interval , to read dr. echard's letter to the author of hieragonisticon , and use his prescriptions ; they exactly hit your case ; pray don't neglect it , delays being dangerous : he says you must avoid all hot things , as coffee and tobacco ( and i believe not without reason , for they are apt to dry up the brain , and when things are too dry they will crack ) but above all you must avoid writing books , till you find the distemper pretty well asswag'd , and then too but moderately , for fear of a relapse . but if you can't forbear till then , pray whatever you write in your fit ( which is but all you write ) read over in an interval before it goes to the press , and then i doubt not they will all receive their fate as truly ( tho not as duly ) as if they were burnt by the hands of the common hangman . indeed some of those already publish'd have answered the end propos'd , and have prov'd good physick . a friend of mine lays 'em in a convenient place , where the reading one leaf is a gentle purge , and then 't is sent after the operation ; the fittest use they can be put to . and , sir , was there no other reason why they should suffer , but because they are too bold and saucy with their author , that was enough : for while they are jesters to others , they make a jest of him . you seem in all your writings to drive very hard for the buskins ; but , i must tell you , they are too noble an ornament to adorn your farce ; for what you write is as much below that reproved author , as a bartholomew-fair droll is below seneca's tragedies . i must acknowledg you have hammer'd hard for a little wit to divert the world , and therefore the world 's very ungrateful it won't accept the will for the deed ; and 't is really very hard that you should print books at your own charge , and be at the expence both of purse and brain to please , and all in vain : yet you have this comfortable solace in the experience you have gain'd , you have found out the best way of putting off your books of any man in england . i am told , that when you was , not long since , chewing the cud , without dividing the hoof , in noah ' s ark ( as you call it ) you was telling a story of a man that cry'd pears , twelve , sixteen , twenty a penny , and none would buy , till at last he cry'd pears for nothing , and then he soon empty'd his basket ; so ( said you ) is it with my books . why sam ! what an unhappy fellow art thou to lay the rod in the way thus ? for who , do you think , won't reply , the reason why the pears would not sell , was , because they were not good ? i remember a passage i once met with in a dramatick poem call'd , the folly of priest ▪ craft . father politico ( who bears the character of a plotting , intriguing priest ) orders his man manuel to read the intelligences which he had receiv'd out of the country , what men there were in the several counties that were fit tools to work with , in building up the catholick cause ; and among the rest , there is a fellow of a broad face , and no brains , the want of which is supply'd by a great stock of impudence , which enables him to rail against popery in billingsgate language , without two grains of sense or reason — he gets a good quantity of money in the year , and preaches in a little shed at the end of his house . then mark him down ( says politico ) and send an hundred pounds to make his shed bigger ; there are more converted to us by hearing bad sermons against popery , than by hearing good ones for it . whether this is worthy the consideration of your antagonists , must be left to them , and how far the story reacheth their case . but i am very apt to think , should they be at the charge of printing all you write ( rather than you should be silent ) it would prove for the good of the cause you oppose ; and one of your books against any opinion , will make more converts to it , than ten good books writ for it . i find , old ishmael , you are resolv'd to keep us in uncertainty to what party you belong , and make us think you are a man of no religion , by your quarrelling with all as wrong . i did believe you a presbyterian ( if any thing ) till i met with those scurrilous sarcasms upon the two great men of the age of that persuasion , dr. b — s and mr. h — w. 't is mean and pitiful to rake the ashes of the dead , as you do of the doctor , ( you know the old saying , de mortuis nil nisi bonum ) but 't is intolerable to stamp 'em with falsities . i can find no truth in what you would insinuate , tho i have often endeavour'd it , and can make no shift to free it from the name of a lie , but that it is too gross to deceive . and i doubt not but you thought your self a fitter man to speak to the king , in the name of the dissenters , than he that did it ( whom the world knows to be a learned man , and needs no encomium from any but his own works ) as you have often implicitely seem'd to assert . that would have been the ready way to have reviv'd the obsolete name of fanatick , and to have given the king just cause to reflect upon on the liberty given to madmen , as he must have judg'd them by their representative . you needed not to have taken the trouble to acknowledg your self a man of but little prudence , as you do in the thirty second page of your second new-years-gift , for i never yet could meet with the man thought you had any . you tell us a story , that a quaker woman coming into a church , and disturbing it by her speaking , was ask'd by a boy , who sent her there that day ? she reply'd , god ; no , said the boy , then you would not have spoken so many things contrary to the scriptures ; neither can i imagine the devil sent thee , for i thought he had more wit than to send such a fool about his work : and the quaker never disturb'd 'em afterward . who sent you i cannot determine . but i wish the recital of your own story may have the same effect upon you , and keep you from making any farther disturbance by your foolish scrible . could you look a little into your own constitution , that would mightily help towards it , for there — you 'd find your body made for labour , not your mind . i fear , should it come to be known who is the author of this letter , by any of the judicious , i shall incur their displeasure ; most are apt to think that you aim at nothing more than the honour of being thought worth answering , and would be glad of having any thing writ against you , to introduce something more of your incontinent scrible into the world. should it prove so in this , i heartily beg their pardon , and hope i shall never again be guilty of midwifeing any of your brats , or be the cause of provoking you to plague the world with more of your stuff . indeed if you 'l be as good as your word , i need not much fear it in this cause , for you tell us , that you never intend to write one word more upon this subject ( that is , of baptism ) unless a reply by any worthy divine or scholar of theirs makes it necessary . can you think , or suppose , a worthy divine , and a scholar , to be without any thing else to do , than to trouble his head about you ? and till then you cannot expect any one should ; besides , man , such a one would as much scorn to draw a pen against thee , as a well bred gentleman to draw his sword upon a naked cit. i understand you threaten very hard any that shall dare to appear in print against you , and yet you see 't is done . in the name of him you shall happen to pitch upon to rail at , as the author of this letter , i send you defiance in six lines of sir carr scroop to my lord rochester , upon his lordship's having written something against him . rail on poor feeble scribler , speak of me in as bad terms as the world speaks of thee : sit swelling in thy hole like a vex'd toad ; thy venom , and thy malice spit abroad ; thou canst hurt no man's name by thy ill word , thy pen is full as harmless as thy sword. philosensus . postscript . perhaps some who may chance to peruse this letter , may cavil at , and find fault with the method i have taken , and the stile i have used in writing to the quakers beetle ( head ) . those that do , i desire to accept of this for answer ; i have endeavour'd , as much as i could , to imitate the gentleman , and fight him at his own weapons , and therefore i have foisted in several stories ( and some of them abruptly ) that i might come as near i could to my copy . and if i 'm accus'd for being so severe upon him , take his own reason for the same thing , in his book call'd william pen and the quakers , either impostors or apostates , &c. page . quacks and juglers , and foolish pretenders to any thing , are not to be treated as wise and sober men ; answer , says the wisest of men , a fool according to his folly , lest he be wise in his own conceit , prov. . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e second new year's gift , p. . and so on . d friendly epistle to g. keith , p. . &c. d friendly epistle , p. . d new year's gift to the crispians , p. , . d friendly epistle to g. keith , p. . d and last new years gift to the crispians , page . d new years gift for the crispians , p. , . william pen and the quakers , either impostors or apostates , p. . d friendly epistle to g. keith , fol. , ▪ milk for babes: and meat for strong men a feast of fat things; wine well refined on the lees. o come young men and maidens, old men and babes, and drink abundantly of the streams that run from the fountain, that you may feel a well-spring of living water in yourselves, springing up to eternal life; that as he lives (even christ jesus) from whence all the springs do come, so you may live also, and partake of his glory that is ascended at the right hand of the father, far above principalities and powers. being the breathings of the spirit through his servant james naylor, written by him in the time of the confinement of his outward man in prison, but not published till now. naylor, james, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing n estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) milk for babes: and meat for strong men a feast of fat things; wine well refined on the lees. o come young men and maidens, old men and babes, and drink abundantly of the streams that run from the fountain, that you may feel a well-spring of living water in yourselves, springing up to eternal life; that as he lives (even christ jesus) from whence all the springs do come, so you may live also, and partake of his glory that is ascended at the right hand of the father, far above principalities and powers. being the breathings of the spirit through his servant james naylor, written by him in the time of the confinement of his outward man in prison, but not published till now. naylor, james, ?- . booth, mary, th cent. [ ], p. printed for robert wilson, at the sign of the black-spread-eagle and wind-mill in martins l'grand, london : . "preface to the reader" signed: m.b., i.e. mary booth. reproduction of the original in the swarthmore college, pennsylvania. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng christian life -- quaker authors -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - taryn hakala sampled and proofread - taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion milk for babes : and meat for strong men. a feast of fat things ; wine well refined on the lees . o come young men and maidens , old men and babes , and drink abundantly of the streams that run from the fountain , that you may feel a well-spring of living water in yourselves , springing up to eternal life ; that as he lives ( even christ jesus ) from whence all the springs do come , so you may live also , and partake of his glory that is ascended at the right hand of the father , far above principalities and powers . being the breathings of the spirit through his servant james naylor , written by him in the time of the confinement of his outward man in prison , but not published till now . london , printed for robert wilson , at the sign of the black-spread-eagle and wind-mill in martins l'grand . the preface to the reader . this being an invitation of love and life ( learned counsel indeed ) from him that hath been tryed in the deeps , a follower of the lamb in many tribulations , where-ever he went , who was baptized into his death by the holy ghost , and by fire ; made like unto him through sufferings , who is the captain of our salvation ; cloathed upon with his virtues and graces , throughly furnished unto every good and perfect work : for he had the mind of god , and the secrets of the almighty did abide upon his tabernacle ; and he prophesied of this day which is now come , and what shall be hereafter , whieh is not convenient to be uttered ; but the day will declare and make all things manifest ; for he that doeth business in great waters , seeth the wonders of the lord , and declareth of the working of his mighty power , who wrought mightily in him ; he brake the bonds , and cut the cords assunder , and led him by the hand of his power through the fire and the water , and set his feet in a plain path , and brought him forth in the midst of his enemies , and stood at his right hand that he could not be moved ; yea before the faces of them that had persecuted his righteous soul , and had said his god had forsaken him , and cast him off for ever ; but the lord did never leave him or forsake him , although satan had power to winnow him as wheat ; yet his precious life was hid with god , and the evil one could not touch it ; and the tryal came not upon him for his own sins onely , nor the sins of others ; but it was to try some , that all flesh may be silent , and that none should glory in his presence , who setteth up , and casteth down , who kills and makes alive , according to the good pleasure of his own will ; and who shall say , why dost thou thus ? for the potter hath power over the clay , to make a vessel of honor , or of dishonor : for i am god all-sufficient , and man as the dust of the ballance , and as the drop of the bucket ; and let all men know , that the most high ruleth in the heavens , and doth whatsoever he will in the earth ; for the lord alone does all : therefore let none glory in his own wisdom or strength ; for all flesh is as grass , and the glory of it as the flower of the field , which soon fadeth away , and cometh to an end ; therefore let him that stands , fear fear alwayes , lest he fall into temptation ; for none can stand in the day of tryal , nor dwell with everlasting burnings , but he that lives and walks in the spirit , and puts no confidence in the flesh : [ mark this ] he was set as a sign for the rise and fall of many , that the secrets of many hearts might be made manifest , and for to prove that generation that then had power in their hands , but improved it not , but went on in the counsel of their own corrupt hearts to persecute the innocent ▪ but the lord god who hath pleaded the cause of the needy , a helper of him who had no helper in the earth ; i say , the lord god hath pleaded with that generation of men which now are passed away , and their very memorial is become an evil savour ; for they shewed no mercy ; therefore in the day of their distress they could find no mercy , but the merciful god , whose mercies are above and over all his works , he did remember his captive , and did not leave his soul in the grave , but did deliver his lamb from the devouring wolves , and stopped the mouths of the lyons which greedily roared , and gave him his life for a prey , that he might magnifie and exalt his unexpressible abundant loving-kindness , and unutterable love of the lord to him ; that all that fear the lord might trust in the god of his salvation , who saved him to the utmost ; this is the god of the living : o let all the holy saints that know the breath of life , praise him that liveth for ever : for all dominion , honor and glory is his , and unto him let it be ascribed for ever and ever . but he hath finished the work his father gave him to do , and hath run the race that was set before him , and is come to the end of all things ; the antient of dayes , the judge of all ; although the outward tabernacle be gone to its place , yet he lives , and shall never dye ; and the resurrection of his most holy life is risen , and shall arise in many ; a name he hath among the living , which can never be blotted out , and the blessing of the lord is upon the seed that hath been raised by his preaching of the word of reconciliation and peace , and his off-spring shall declare his generation for ever ; for the seed is still multiplying , his childrens children are ready to bring forth , still raising up seed to the elder brother , the true husband in the resurrection ; but now none can add to him , or take from him ; for immortal is his crown , and endless is his glory ; and in all that was done unto him , the lord never smote him , as he hath , and will smite them that smote him ; for he hath broken them with a great breach , and so shall it be with all zions enemies ; for her king is in the midst of her , the lord of hosts is his name , who will smite the host of the egyptians ; and fear , horror and trembling shall take hold on israel's enemies , and he will smite the earth with a curse for his elect sake , and he will plague hard-hearted pharoah , that will not let the seed go free to serve the lord in the spirit , and the truth ; and with amalek ( which will not let israel pass through his land ) will he make war for ever , and in the destruction of his enemies will he get himself a name , and his name shall be dreadful to all them that know him not ; but all that know his name they put their trust in it , and unto them it is a strong tower of defence , and into the ark of his strength will he gather all the righteous souls , whilst he ease and avenge himself of his enemies ; and for ever blessed are all they that hold out unto the end , and keep the word of his patience , they shall be hid in the hollow of his hand , kept safe in his pavilion , and a defence will he make about his people , and zion shall be the praise of the whole earth , a beautiful city , compact , compassed about with salvation for walls and bulwarks , and the mountain of his holiness shall be on the top of all mountains , and no destroiers shall be found in it ; the pure in heart shall see it . m. b. milk for babes , and meat for strong men , &c. to you tender hearted ones , who have felt the call of the father's , love , who now see more desireableness and beauty in innocency and meekness then in all the mountains of prey , or self-conted exaltations arising from the airy knowledge , my soul is with you herein ; and in that which hath given you the sight of this excellency , wait low , and diligently hearken thereto , until the thing it self spring up , which naturally hath this riches in it , which cometh from above , and yet is felt far below all fleshly aff●ctions , high thoughts , and hasty desires , and with these is vailed and hid from you , so that you cannot come to the life and spring of it , but as you deny these , and put them off , by sinking down through them , all these earthly foundations and ends to rise up ; for under all these your beloved suffers , while these are above in your minds ; and through the the fall of all these , must he arise , and over all these take the kingdom , ere you come to have a quiet dwelling-place in him , and he in you . so under all these must you pass , and into the likeness of his death you must come , and be planted therein , that the fellowship of his sufferings you may feel , and partake of his meekness and patience therein , who beareth all things ; and your faithfulness with him therein must be throughly proved in which faith and patience you shall learn him whom you love ; his reproach without , his temptations within , even such tryals which cannot be declared to another , shall you learn in him , with his love , obedience , patience , meekness and long-suffering under all ; and how through all these he ariseth , in which resurrection he chaineth his enemies , and takes them captive , whose captives you are ; and thus shall you have fellowship in his resurrection , wherein you shall attain to the resurrection of the dead , and the inheritance of eternal life . but dear children who seek this to attain , think it not strange when for the attaining hereof , you come to be rejected of all , denyed , condemned , contradicted , and tempted with all manner of spirits and evils , assaults within and without , with fears and dread , in weakness , watchings and fasting , with teares of sorrow night and day ; to be led into the wilderness , & there tempted , tryed in the night with great temptations , and see no way out , led on a way you know not , a way of wrath and terror , and passing by the gates of hell , and none to pity you , nor take your part ; chastened alone , that you may be proved to the uttermost . and when this you come into , then faint not , nor look back , but lift up your head through all , and know , that now he deals with you as with sons and daughters of his love : take heed you murmur not , nor measure him with your selves , nor repine at the rod ; cast not your evil eye upon the instruments , who or what ever they be ; for that will beget wrath in your minds , and then you will lose the life you aim at , and suffer in vain ; but in the greatest floods keep your eye to your beloved beauty , retain patience and meekness in long-suffering , with faith : let these be ever in your heart as the end of all ; and still believe that all that befalls you is but to waste that which would hinder you from being joined into the thing you so highly prise . so in all things keep with him , let his joy be strength unto you in all , and the appearance of his beauty wil refresh you in the new , as the old doth wast , and with him make war against the enmity , and let his love quench all wrath that would arise ; let him be your shield of faith ; and what ever you are led into while you retain him single in your minds , it shall be profitable to the end expected ; but without him you can do nothing : so if you pray to the father , let it be with him . in all your wrestings , his meekness , patience and long-suffering , with faith , prevails much with god. if you resist the tempter ; let it be with him , it 's his good that onely hath power to overcome the evil ; and here is your strength in all , if you hold him stedfast in your minds ; in the fire , and in the floods he will be with you , and be your power and peace , and make your way through all . though at some times the clouds may be so thick , and the powers of darkness so strong in your eye that you see him not , yet love him , and believe , and you have him present ; you shall feel his patience calling you down out of the storm , and his meekness moving you to follow him who hath gone the same way before in all his saints . this is your beloved , who now goeth before you ; hear him alone , then are you faithful , when you look for no other to be with you in all , nor to redeem you out of all but him whom you love : so that though the tempter should tender you relief some other way ( for herewith he will prove you , if he see he cannot drive you from the meek and patient one by sufferings and threatning , then will he flatter and promise , to draw you from him ) yet this is your faithfulness , that you abide till meekness and patience bring you out . for whatever you own for your redeemer out of trouble , that must be your lord and master , and you its servant : wherefore take heed you own nothing for a helper , but what you look to inherit ; so he that makes flesh his arm , inherits the curse , and the earth cometh over him , and he must serve it : but stay you in the meekness of christ , his peace and patience , and you enter the earnest of your inheritance in the day of your trouble ; and when you come out , none shall be able to take it from you , nor any contrary nature shall be lord in you , nor over you , but the same in which you have trusted , shall rest upon you , and his glory shall cover you , and become a life in you and your leader for ever . and being faithful in this tryal , you shall learn christ , and find out the wiles of satan , and perfectly feel what he hath of his own in you , to work upon , even by their present working in your minds ; for that which thinks sufferings hard , and time long , that is not to be trusted ; for it will work in the reasonings a distrust , and tempt to look out for freedom and ease by some visible help ; or if it cannot prevail to hunt about for freedom , yet if any carnal way be opened , it will form a fair pretence as though it were of god , which is not of god ; and this seeks to betray the just & faithful one from you ; & would part you from your chast waiting upon him whom you love , taking his advantage by your hast , weariness & weakness in the journey : but that which only minds to be obedient to god in suffering and acting , with faith and diligence , nearkning with all long-suffering , what meekness and patience saith , thinking it a greater thing to obtain counsel from that , then ease from another ; believing that no other thing can give an expected end but that , to wit an inheritance in that you wait for ; and therefore count nothing dear that you may win him , thinking no time long , nor any thing hard to endure , for the joy and beauty that is set before you : this wil never deceive you of the redemption of truth ; your love , and redeemer , and lord is one , and you shal not be put to your sleighty shifts as they that go out from that spirit are ; for you shal feel and see your redeemer in the misst of you , and with his body shal you rise and live , and you shal not be ransomed with silver or gold , from the hand of the opressor , but by the pretious blood of christ , as a lamb without spot ; not with any corruptible thing , but his long-suffering , faith and patience , his love and meek spirit shal set you out of all darkness , and above all fears ; and your freedom wil be perfect , and inheritance large , when all that would not stay upon him alone , are consumedin the fiery tryals , which haste , ease and distrust wil never bring to an end ; til which you are not fit to be joined to him you love in everliving obedience and everlasting praises , the portion of all who have waited on him , and have found him faithful in the end. and having learned this mystery of godliness , and found the worth of it , you having found his way perfect and pure , and him faithful to such as walk therein , you may be able to direct the simple and unlearned in their desirable way to rest , and your words have in them a manifestation of life , and quickning power is with you , & this shal be your everlasting strength , that you are redeemed with that you so dearly loved . and this you shal feel in the way , that the more diligently you wait upon him in all conditions you pass through ; even so the more do you receive of him , by drinking in of that heavenly virtue that is in him , who is the meek and patient one ; and by supping continually with him , and he with you , wil you come so to be filled with him , that all haste and impatiency , and distrust , will be covered and overcome with him , and so your mortal be swallowed up of the immortal , till it become your whole life and being ; and all your thoughts , words and actions , have their rise and being therein ; so that self be seen no more , nor that appear in which death and condemnation have any entrance or power : and this shall you find to be the house from above , and heavenly city , in which the holy spirits live and walk , and have communion , as they come to be perfected ; of which the lamb is the light and salvation , into which none enter , but who through his meekness and long-suffering are ransomed , and by faith therein redeemed . who being thus builded , see no more sorrow nor fear of falling , the foundation being everlasting , elect and precious , and every stone therein tryed in the fire , and in faithfulness chosen for that end . so with all diligence sink down to feel the election , not minding that which boasts in high words , before it be tryed ; but when it comes into the fire , will not stand patient in the tryal , but through that being given up to death , seek for that which lies under in the sufferings , which calls you down from every high thought . to him come down into the pit , who bears all things without complaining , that with him you may suffer , and with him you may obey , and in all things he may be with you , and you with him ; this is the election , make him sure to your selves in life and death , so shall you be changed with him ; and though you go down into the lower parts of the earth in the carnal body , he shall raise you spiritual ; though sown weak , yet raised in power ; if you rise not but with him , as he raises you ; if you cast not off the yoak , nor flye the cross , nor heal your own wound ; though your wound be mortal , yet the cure is immortal ; though you go down in shame and reproach , yet raised in glory , and covered with immortal honour , and eternal life , with power and strength to fulfil the will of god , and the answer of a good conscience ; through this baptism and resurraction you shall attain , and so become one spirit with him that dwells in the light , in death , in sufferings , in patience , in faith and in obedience , which otherwise no mortal man can approach to , there being that to be fulfilled which the light requires , which the first man born hath not in power , so by that law ( his life he must lose ) which hath power over the transgressor as long as he lives , and joined to christ cannot be till to that law he be dead ; so the first which is earthly the law kills because of sin , and want of obedience , but he that is born again is of the spirit , and lives because of righteousness and obedience , so the boaster is excluded , being concluded under sin ▪ that the mercy may arise in the meek principle over all , to fulfil all . the light saith , love thy neighbour as thy self ; this the first born cannot do , so the boaster is excluded , and the law lays hold on that life , which wants this love , and the creature must give up that to death , that he may come to the meek spirit for the power of that life and obedience that hath righteousness in it : and the creature drawing his mind , and affections , and faith ●rom the first who hath words without power , and giving these to the second , the first falls , withers , and dies in that vessel , and as the mind is diligent in the second , he rises in the faith , and raiseth the power of obedience in that vessel , and so as he rises through the law , he brings forth fruits above the law , against which there is no law ; so he in whom the covenant is , and hath the power of obedience to righteousness , puts an end to the law : so he being denied , dead , and buried , whose life arose through disobedience , who is the transgressor , and because of whom the law was added , that law becomes dead also ; he that fulfils the law is he that gave it forth , and is the end thereof , in whom by faith you live , and inherit this right eousness , as you put him on , through death who is this life ; so being faithful in the light shal you learn him that kills and makes alive , that casts down and raises up , that condemns and justifies , and so shal know the way of death and the way of life , and who that is that is hardned by the law , and who fulfills it , and the life and end of both , and you wil see the cause and end of all the tribulations , earthquakes and thunders , and several voices , clouds , smoak and darkness , and great temptations , and the trial of your faith herein wil be as that of gold , and will bring to inherit the knowledge of god and eternal life , and power to judge the prince of the air , and over the mystery of iniquity , and to deny the god of this world with all his snares and traps wherein the unlearned professors are caught , and held captive at his wil , though some of them have a knowledg and form of the truth , taught from what others have thus learned , all which you shal judg and have power over , and all ministration under the son , shal with this be comprehended , whether angels or spirit : even he that is faithful and diligent unto the end of this great tribulation , shal be made white , and have judgment committed to him , and the key of davids house , to bind and lose , and shal sit in the lambs throne of judgment and righteousness in heaven ; and the grave nor hel shal have no more power , nor shal his old iniquities have any more power over him , the strength of sin being dead . wherefore brethren , in the light be faithful , when you come into this condition ; take heed of unbelief , and hast not out of it , least you tempt the lord of your life , and grieve his meek spirit , and provoke him to leave chastening , and so your spot remain , and you prove but bastards , and not free-born children of this kingdom , power and glory ; and so in time your old iniquities overtake you again . for whatever of the old man comes out of the fire unconsumed , dead and buried in this baptism , wil be a continual canker seeking to eat , and an enemy , daily waiting his opportunity upon all occasions to get up , and overspread the pure plant of innocency , and so spoil you of your beloved , and so make void all your sufferings past , and bring in the old evils like a flood upon you , as it hath befallen many at this day ; but be faithful to the end of all iniquity , the root as wel as the branch ; so shall your righteousness arise clear and unspotted , and your old sins shall therewith be buried , and never arise again , neither to accuse nor raign ; and this is your victory over death . and this know ( whatever others imagine ) let none deceive you ) that though sin ( the evil seed ) be sown when men sleep , and take root with pleasure , and spring up with ease and delight ; yet the end thereof is bitterness and great tribulation ; but the precious seed is sown with tears conceived in sorrow , & brought to light with sighing , nights of watching , dayes of mourning , and with much labour of spirit , and travel of soul , must you come to see your desire ; for though the world have conceived a faith in the air , and so bringeth forth nought but several sorts of winds striving upon the earth , without foundation , and so builds nothing to perfection ; yet with you it must not be so ; for to you the light is sprung up which leads to the foundation of god ; and you have received a faith that gives you a sight of the stone which the builders see not ; and to you it is given not onely to believe in him , but to suffer for his sake in the behalf of him ; and so to run , as to win him , so to strive , as to obtain him , his name , his power , his nature ; for this is that your soul groans for , to possess and inherit his power , his love , his meekness , his patience in all tribulations ; his faith in all fears , and to have the power of all his grace and vertue living in you , whereby you may be men of able spirits , rightly furnished to every good work , and against all evil , that in him you may overcome when you are tryed , and be more then conquerors ; and your work is to war against whatever would keep you from coming to this foundation and corner-stone . and it is not beating the air , that will fight your battel ; for it 's against all these deceits you are to fight , and airy notions , and all spirits that would possess you with words and forms , without the power of righteousness , and what ever lyes under the power of sin ; the true light gives you to see the cursed deceipt that lyes in all this , and that these are the subtile paths of the destroyer ; and nothing less then victory over sin and subtilty will satisfie your souls ; so that it 's onely life and power that can give you peace , and therefore yours is work , and not vain words ; and that which strikes at the root of sin , is your best weapon : so it is not flesh that profits you , it 's the spirit that must quicken through hardship , that which ease hath slain , ere you come to perfect peace . for though the letter tell of a child that is heir of all things , and gives this inheritance to all in whom he is formed , whose name is , wonderful in counsel and strength , yet is not this brought forth without hard labour and travel , and the pangs of death gone thorow ; for when you come to the lord for counsel , and feel that there is two manner of seeds in the womb , then will you see that great work is to be done ere you come to rest ; there is the strong man to be bound before the babe can reign ; and strongly is he armed with all manner of wiles to save himself ; and it 's not words and thoughts that will cast out the mother & her son which must not inherit ; and this must be done , or all is in vain : he that is born of flesh , is in bondage to things here below ; this cannot inherit immortality , for sin hath power in him , and dye he must , that the son of righteousness may arise to life in you , and bring your life to light with him , as he appears ; and though the light be above the transgressor , yet the son is lowly that gives it . so being faithful in the light which from the son cometh , which condemneth all the lofty wayes of the first-born , you will beled into ways lowly , to cross your life in him ; through watchings and fastings , and great tribulations , must he be famished , into which the spirit will lead you , where there is nothing for the lust to live on , nor for that wisdom to walk in that loves it self , or seeks its ease and pleasure . then be faithful to your guide , however he storm that is to be destroyed . and with all diligence press into that which calls in the wandering mind , and give heed with watching and wrestling to get abiding therein , which as you are faithful therein , it will be enlarged , till it become a habitation for your pure minds to dwell in , and take up its rest , which hath been tost to and fro as in a wilderness ; and by killing in the watch all that would draw you out , and sinking down into this meekness and stedfast lowliness , you will come to feel the plant of god that brings forth this meekness and holiness , and springs of living virtue ; and there will you meet the lord in his kingdom on earth , where he delights to walk as in a garden ; for in these things he delights , and in such as delight therein , and there wait to feel his fellowship , and receive his counsel in purity and coolness , in which he will let you see whatever it be that would break his covenant with you , and whatever leadeth out from the eternal life , and will with his spirit lead you out to war against it ; in vvhich spiritual war being faithful , you shall not fail of victory , till every cumbrance in your minds be cast out , and so heavenliness become a quiet habitation , that in the meek spirit you may feed upon the heavenly food and not to have that ravenous earthly spirit to steal and devour it from the soul . and as you get an entrance into this heavenly mansion , so diligently watch , and in the light stand armed against the thief , and keep out whatever would enter into your affections or desires , under what pretence soever ; for if it enter into your affections , it will steal away your minds from this pure innocent plant ; and this is adultery , treachery and whoredom , which you must wrestle against in the power of his love . and with willingness of mind to put off all the old idols out of your affections , what ever hath any place there ; for by the entrance of that through lust , hath the son of righteousness suffered , and the innocent been slain ; and until that be condemned and cast out , which hath come over the just in your affections , the son of righteousness arises not into his kingdom , who must fulfil all righteousness before the entrance be made ; which work you stop , whilst you retain the unrighteous , having a seat in your heart uncondemned and cast out ; and hence it is that many seek to enter , but are not able , the cursed thing not being cast out , which can have no place in gods kingdom , with which the just hath not communion , nor the temple of god with idols . and this i say to you , which is a learned truth in this journey , that if you either retain your old lovers , or suffer any thing now to enter your affections , or draw out your minds from this pure plant of righteousness and truth , you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven ; for this is the way , and must make your entrance ; therefore fight against whatever would draw you from it , and with violence break through it , and take the kingdom ; for onely he that hath been faithful in the baptism of john , to fulfil all righteousness , shall receive power to press into the kingdom ; and when you come here , you will find violent powers to keep you out , which with the lamb in war must be overcome violently ; for the strong man having got a possession within , is not easily bound and cast out , for it is a spiritual wickedness , and in heavenly places , with which you are to wrestle ; therefore a heavenly virtue contrary thereto , and of a greater power , must give you you victory . so press into the heavenly spirit with its power , to overcome the earthly spirit with its powers ; strive earnestly in the meeke spirit to obtain a measure of faith and patience , larger then the temptation , and that will endure to the end of it a meekness and love to cover all strife and wrath a long-suffering to famish all hast , and that which seeks its own ease ; and so in all things with desire , drinking in of the heavenly virtue from above , whereby you may become strengthned with all might , to stand all assaults of the enemy , within or without ; and so in the cross come to put on every measure , christ jesus , the great power of god unto salvation , and well-springs of eternal life and glory , which is done by sinking down into the heavenly feeling , contrary to the will of the exalted life , whereby you will be overshadowed from above , from whence the saviour is looked for , to overcome things below . and as you come into the feeling of these virtues , hold them fast till he come who is the fulness , and with that you have , wrestle against what ever would draw out your minds from it ; for with that of him must you make war against whatever is contrary thereto ; and as you are faithful to abide therein , you wil feel every high thing fall before you ; for that which cleanseth the vessel of all corruptible things , is your weapon ; and that which springs up in a contrary nature , is your life . the beholding whereof as it riseth , and keeping your eye constant in the faith and hope of attaining to his fulness , will make your work the work of love , your obedience delightful , and all your sufferings easie , and your loss of your former glory will in that eye appear great gain ; and this is your acceptable service , and that faith which vvorks by love , vvhich avails much vvith god , and being follovved , overcomes the world , and sets free from it in all things . so vvith the light mind to be led dovvn into that life that is not of this world ; come to him that seeks not himself , vvho hath not his rest in things on earth , vvho is rejected of men , denyed of his ovvn kindred , and forsaken of all ; and as you come to him , you vvil come to be proved vvhether you can forgo all these for him alone , and that he may make his appearance in you , and cover you vvith himself , his contempt and reproach , and his patient povver to bear all ; for it 's he that can bear all things , that shall never be moved ; and he that thus overcomes , shall know the white stone , and that rock which breaks the nations , but builds the house of god. but in all your journey take heed of the adulterous mind , for it secretly devoureth the precious life ; wherefore take heed of that which looketh out , give not way to that eye not for a moment ; for if you consent to it upon any pretence whatsoever , you enter into a covenant therewith , against the holy seed , to destroy the chast mind ; but whether it be rough or smooth , yet hold it as an enemy , and that which if it get in by consent , must out by suffering double to the delight it brings with it ; but if as an enemy you withstand it by constant and patient resistings , it will flye , and grow weaker upon every assault ; and he that giveth you victory , will grow more in your esteem and delight . wherefore think it not strange ( so long as any of the old leaven is within , unpurged out ) that the nearer you draw to god in the lowly-suffering-meekness , the deeper you sink into tribulation , and your suffering encrease upon your fleshly part , for that is the sons way to perfection ; and the wondrous works of the father are learned in the deep ; for by the hand of god upon you ( being faithful in suffering to the end ) shal you see the old foundation of the world , the root and off-spring of all wickedness , how it came to be laid , and how the lamb is slain , and what he is ; and the foundation of god shall you see and feel , upon which the saints were raised up and built in the spirit , and how all the chaff , hay and stubble comes to be cleansed off ; for his fan is in his hand , and the words of his mouth are a consuming fire to that nature , who refineth the gold , and quickeneth the soul , and divideth the clean from the unclean . and the nearer you draw to god , the nearer will he draw to you in righteousness , and judgement , and truth , to make an end of sin , and bring in everlasting righteousness , and to establish you in his inheritance who appear in his temple through the refiners fire , and fullers sope , the end of all sufferings , and entrance into everlasting joy , purity and peace , and weight of eternal glory , to which there is no other way but through affliction . but as you come down to the foundation of god , watch with all fear and diligence , that nothing exalt you , or lift you up in mind , conceit , or comprehension , faster then with that foundation you are builded ; for many temptations of haste will present themselves with fears and distrust , to get you from off the foundation of life ; but if you keep lowly , steadfast and faithful thereto , with it you shall be raised out of the pit , and set above the earth . and for that end is it laid within you , that in spirit you may be built thereon , in order like the corner-stone , a new man , not the same that goes down , and none knoweth the way of his rising , but as he keepeth to the foundation , and mindeth the head of the corner , which as you diligently mind , you shall know the sure foundations of the holy city , even from the word of the beginning of christ , as you grow to his fulness , the foundations of repentance , of faith , of doctrines , of baptisms , of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgement . and as with the foundation of life and power you come to be edified , you will be led thorow the dominions of death , where you shall learn wherein it hath its power , and by what it reigns , and how it captivates the seed , and how its bouds are broken , and with what he is taken and chained , who hath the power of death ; and so come to see what binds , and what looses ; kills , and makes alive ; the life of the lavv , the life of the prophets , and the life of the apostles , as they passed before you , vvill you come to knovv , their in heritance therein to possess , and vvith them in spirit have fellovvship , as they passed the time of their pilgrimage here , that to the life of christ you may come , for the fulfilling of the word of god , vvhich endureth from generation to generation : this being the end of all the travels of the souls of righteous men and women here belovv , vvhich that they might attain the fulfilling thereof , and so return in peace to him from vvhence they came , cloathed on vvith their heavenly house , for which prize they counted all things loss here below , casting off the earthly pleasures , and killing every affection thereto , estranged therefrom in all their vvalking vvhile they are here , knovving that the love to the earthly things , is the enemy to their spiritual ascending , and that the earthly adulterous spirit daily hunts to devour the precious life , and to keep the soul in things below ; presenting daily its delights carnal , and opening the pathes of the destroyer , with pleasures to the carnal eye , which whosoever joins to , cannot ascend into the heavenly inheritance , but with the dark world daily go downward , who are degenerated from the life of god , and estranged from it , even from the womb ; so that they are never able to attain the knowledge of god , nor in truth and righteousness to call him father , nor to say they came out from him , nor ever to him can return ; this they being willingly ignorant of , that no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven , who is born , not of the corruptible seed , nor begotten , but by the word of god which liveth and abideth for ever . but with you it is not so , ( neither are you going that way ) who feel the heavenly motion drawing your minds out of all earthly delights , the taste of the heavenly life overcoming the earthly in your affections ; so that to the world you dye daily , and you feel something quickned in you , that cannot feed on earthly pleasures , but hunger after righteousness , and see a beauty in holiness , and thirst daily after the heavenly virtue : so to that sink down into its likeness , which is yet in the bonds of death , and hunger with it , and suffer with it , and join to it in all its counsel , so that with it you may be raised ; for that is it which is on the foundation of god ; and coming to him as a living stone , you will be built on the same foundation , the same spirit being your head ; by whose resurrection all the vails will be done away , the vail of death , the vail of the law , the vail of the prophets , and the whole mystery of godliness will be unsealed , and the way to heaven opened by him , even the slain lamb , who hath his power from the midst of the throne of god , even for you , if you join to him in his sufferings and ascendings , who maketh the way betwixt heaven and earth , and keepeth it open in all them who mind him , therewith to possess the vessel in holness and fear towards god , so that nothing shall hinder your prayers from coming to the throne of god , nor the dew and blessing of heaven from falling upon the seed ; and here is heaven opened , and the way of grace and salvation for the wayfaring man here on earth to walk in ; in which if you wholly exercise your minds , you shal not err ; nor shall any thing be able to hinder you from receiving gifts from the father , so long as nothing of a contrary nature stops his own from arising to him in praises , and you with it . so let nothing cut off your communion with god in that measure you already have received ; but let the breathings of your souls , and your hearts be continually open towards him , and therein you shall not onely receive , but become faithful improvers of what you have , by the blessing that is the covenant that is with all that love him that dwells in the light ; for where the conversation is in heaven , there the earth becoms fruitful . wherefore give all diligence , that nothing have your affections here below , or stop your heavenly mind from its constant ascending ; for that is the spirit of bondage which hath got power , by letting some carnal thing in upon you , to press you down ; which spirit waits upon you continually to ensnare the heavenly life , and get above it in your minds , and so as a weight beset you in your way , lest that which comes from heaven should have free passage through a clear vessel to heavenly seed , free from cares , cumbrances , and earthly pleasures , and from earth to the heavens ; for it 's he that comes from above , which declareth to man his way , and his wants , presents his prayers , and receives the answer ; and by him alone doth god work all his works in you , & for you , in heaven , and in earth : now if you join to another , and give your strength of heart and mind to his enemy , then the work of god ceases , the way being stopt ; for the adulterer , the covetous , the idolater , the wanton , the sloath , or what ever of that nature you join to your consent giveth him strength to stop the way of life : and this is your condemnation , witnessed with the light ; and herein had death its power at the first , which can be no head , but where he is hearkned to , let in , or obeyed , ( but being resisted , flyes ) but being let in , he seateth himself in the heavenly way , with much policy and power , and is not easily got out , nor seen to be what he is ; so when you feel your way darkned , or affections grow cold towards heaven , then take heed with all diligence in the pure light to search , for your enemy hath got some entrance , which by faithful and patient waiting in the light , you will come to see , and through the power of the cross to kill that life , and cast out that in which it was conceived , for that must not abide in the house with him that is heir of the heavenly inheritance , but is an enemy to his coming ; for it is he that letteth till he be taken out of the way , which while he is in the way , dulls the affections , and clogs the heavenly mind , that it cannot ascend : wherefore that which you have received of the holy one , his unction hold fast till he come , and with it stand armed against whatever would enter to lead out to any outward observations ; but with all diligence observe that which you have of his in spirit , which the adversary seeks so much to draw you forth from , least you should encrease your lords money , and herein you maintain your daily watch , and war with that you have of life and power , and not with that you have not ; so are you faithful stewards , and are accepted in what you have , and not in what you have not ; for the world is in darkness , and so wait for they know not what , and have no ground for their faith , nor power to prepare his way to his coming , further then words of others , or their own conceivings , but are not in him who is true ; but you are in him who is true , who have his light received , and are in it to observe hhis appearance in all things , and the messenger of his covenant you know , who goeth before his face to prepare his way , turning your hearts from every evil way , and out of the paths of the destroyer , that you may be fruitful upon earth , that so he may receive you into himself vvhen he cometh to smite the earth vvith a curse , which that which brings forth bryars and thorns is nigh unto , whose seed is not of himself , his root and off-spring at his coming , which is begot in the adulterous mind . for the mind feeding from without upon any knowledge , form , or observation ( but what the life leads to in spirit and power ) is the ground of the mystery of iniquity , & the woman of witch craft , which hunteth for the precious life of the holy child , seeking to draw your strength of affections from him after the harlot , that so he may fall & die daily in your hearts and affections , while the lust goes out to another , covered with some fair pretence , whereby the worldly spirit gathers strength daily , as you shal feel who are watchful and diligent in the spiritual war , so shal that truth appear to you ; that as your love waxeth cold , so wil iniquity abound , with an unresistable power , whatever you know to the contrary , which is not in the life ; or whatever you believe without that faith which works by love to the life of truth more then to the knowledge of truth : so let your wrestling be into the power and life of god , and thereon feed , and your life shal indure for ever , and your strength and virtue shal be daily renewed : but you read of some who had the form of knowledge , and of the truth , but being out of the life of truth , held the truth in unrighteousness ; and such when they knew god did not glorifie him as god in life : so he gave them up , who became vain in their imaginations , who retained not the life in the knowledge , turned the truth of god into a lie : so that knowledge could not keep them from being filled vvith unrighteousness , which stood not in the life and povver of righteousness , and who received not that truth in that faith which loves to live the life of it . wherefore let your food be in the life of what you know , and in the power of obedience rejoice , and not in what you know , but cannot live ; for the life is the bread of your souls , which crucifies the flesh , and confounds that which runs before the cross . so let your labour and diligence be in that which presseth into the heavenly being , and seeketh a conformity to christ in obedience of what you believe , and hearken in love to that , not in that mind which would save your own lives , nor feed you where you are ; but in love to that which seperateth you from self-life , and changeth you into his life whom you wait for from above ; so in receiving his commands in that which loves to be like him in life , your faith works by love , and his commands are joyous through love : that faith worketh obedience , quickness and willingness ; it worketh out the old , and worketh into the new ; and so through the hope of that which you love , and obedience of faith , the entrance is made with the life , into the holy kingdom , and the immortal glory is put on , which in the light is seen , and in the life obtained , as with the word of faith the separation is made , and the life that 's mortal put off , whose life is without the vail , and is for death , with that life who makes the entrance through his blood , and through his flesh ; a living way , a way of life , a new way to all who are seeking the door in old ordinances and traditions , and outward observations , feeding their minds with thinking or talking of what others did long since , or what may be done in times to come , and so are in times , but out of that life which endures for ever , and onely hath the promise of the father , and power to make the entrance to him , from whom all the world are driven , who are in the lust , and in that nature which loves it self , and worketh iniquity ; yet wearying themselves to find the door , without the light of that life which is not of this world. and as you mind onely to feed on the plant of life , you will come to know the work of the father in his vineyard , and who the faithful labourer is , and what must be his work ; and the sloathful servant , and what his work bringeth forth ; and the cause why the field of the sluggard is over-grown with evil fruits , and why his vine bringeth not fruit to perfection . for you will find many plants besides the tree of life , all which seek to be fed and strengthened in the mind and affections , and many grown trees tall and strong , which have got fast rooting , spread and bring forth abundantly after their several kinds ; and all these present themselves to the eye of the mind , to be fed from thence , which is as the feet , fetching food from far , without which they cannot live long , but must pine away , and fall , as they dye in the affections , and as the mind is withdrawn from such objects as they are fed withall . so the work of him that is faithful , is to number these to the axe , and to the fire , and not to suffer these any place in the mind , how strongly soever they tempt , and try every way to spread root to keep life ; that so through the death of these , the vine may grow alone in the clean affections , and holy mind , and honest , chaste heart , which is the good ground , and where the pure plant will bring forth of it self in all , where it is not cumbred with that which is contrary to it ; which contrary fruits all that mind the light may see ; but the sluggard not being diligent to dig up the root , as well as to condemn the fruit , therefore they are daily growing , and the good ground ever cumbred with them ; and such ever know what they should do , but are never able to abide there , their life being lost in the midst of this wilderness , and over-grown with wild plants . but you being diligent in your watch , you will see that the cause of all your troubles and confusion ( when you come to the true labour indeed ) is not for nothing ; for you will find many plants of several kinds ( for the world is in the heart of man , as he is droven from god ) and every kind hath its several life , which lives have their several feedings , all which you may feel in the light , by their temptings to lead out your minds ; and though they are of several motions , and live upon several objects , yet the least of them being fed by consent in your mind , will over-run the vine , and in time bury it , by growing up in your affections : wherefore all must down , that truth alone may rise in your affections , and the word of life have place in your hearts , who is purer then to dwell in the adulterous minde , and whose eye cannot behold iniquity , who hath no communion with darkness , nor fellowship where any idol stands in the temple . so this is your faith in your labour , even that which overcomes the world , and suffereth nothing thereof to take place in your minds , but with the spirit of life to watch , and wrestle against every lust , and kill every affection that would go out for food ; for what-ever goes out , betrayes the innocent ; and every pleasure of the flesh , as a canker doth eat out the life of the holy and just one ; but by faith the just lives , and in faithfulness doth he judge , and make war against all his enemies , in every one who are exercised therewith . and in this work , mind what you follow ; follow nothing rashly , but prove all things with the fire ; and that which will not endure the temptation , and bear the cross , is the adulterer , who will look out every way for ease ; and the serpent wil present many likely wayes to her under fair pretences , which she that would live at ease , will hastily hearken to ; and if you hearken to her , you will betray the work of life , which is bringing forth in hard travel and labour , which is flain in the birth , where ease and sloath is consented to ; and with living at ease and pleasure , hath the life been slain from the beginning of the world , and hath been kept under by her sorceries , who fares deliciously upon earth ; and by consenting to her pleasures hath the election been lost , and covered with the seed of wickedness , which god hates , which wars after the flesh , and lusts after the flesh , to strengthen it self above the holy spiritual seed ; but minding to make that sure to you which calls in your mind , and being obedient thereto , it will lead down by the power of the cross , through that which is above , to the feeling of the election ; and a separation being made betwixt that which god chuseth in this working-power , and what he condemneth , you will come thereby to know to what to join , and from what to withdraw , that you may be workers together with him , and not against him , which the subtile one will lead you to do , till with the light the separation be made ; and so joining to it in faith and obedience , the election will arise , and by diligence thereto it will be made sure . and once feeling the innocent to move under the oppressor , give your selves no rest until the strong man bow ; for with great plagues upon that nature , and with a strong hand against that will must the seed of promise be redeemed from under his power , which like pharoah , if he get but rest , will not let israel go from under his power ; and if you keep with the spirit , and hearken low , it will let you see what must be the plagues you must pour upon him , till he be brought dovvn , that a little child may lead him , and reign over him ; and he that was oppressed by the beast , may ride upon him : and as that nature got head and strength by having its lusts fulfilled , so it must be subdued by having its lusts famished ; which if you be not faithful to the seed of god herein , you sell your birth-right , and betray your own redemption , and are found deceitful workers against god and your own souls . wherefore run not with that which is in hast , but lye down in that which is meek , lovvly and patient , that vvhich is vvilling to vvait the fathers time , and seeks to obtain by the obedience of faith , and not in the will that vvould have in its ovvn hand ; for a nature there is vvhich runs out for help , and raveneth abroad to be satisfied , vvhich god vvill famish ; and this vvill seek to lead the mind , if it be follovved , and vvill hunt about and murmure if it be not satisfied : this goeth about the citie , but entereth not ; and this must suffer hunger , and feel the lambs wrath , and plagues upon the head thereof , what vvay soever it turns , till it bovv and comeunder , vvhich it vvill not till it be pined vvith famine , and vvearied upon the mountains of prey ; then shal the lion lie dovvn vvith the lamb , and the little child lead to rest , and no ravenous beast shal take his feeding from him . but in this vvork take heed you be not betraied vvith that spirit , for it is very subtil , to run to the one hand or the other ; either into the eagerness and hast , vvhich is its first vvay after convincement ; or else vvhen it gets not its ends there , then into sloth and idle carelesness , and both these keep it alive in strength above the seed ; but a straight way there is betvvixt these , in vvhich the seed ariseth , vvhich is a diligent , vvatchful , patient meekness , feeling the godly principle moving , and following it in faith and obedience in all things vvithout hast or ends , further then vvhat is opened in the life of obedience , constantly diligent , least any thing slip out of the mind , vvhich is freely given , either for practise or teaching ; for onely the diligent mind holdeth the true living treasure ; but the sloathful and disobedient are leaking vessels . so as wise in the light , prove your freedom , from that nature which is high , and fierce and hasty , or any way above the meekness , for therein stands your perfect redemption to know that , that you are not servants to that nature ; for it 's the same that hasteth into the greediness after worldly things , and fears , and distrusts , if it hath not in its sight and possession what it lusts after ; which being convinced of an inheritance in heaven , would have that also in all hast by sight ; but not through faith , patience and obedience ; which if it may not obtain into its own sight , and in its own way and time , it will be ready to faint and distrust , and this will never strip himself of all , in hopes of an inheritance it hath not seen ; so this is in bondage , and not to be heir ; but the just live by faith , whose birth is free from this world , & your redemption from the other into the leadings of this , wchwil bring to the inheritance of the purchased possession . wherefore prove your freedom in all things , that you may not glory in vain , but in the liberty of sons ; do not say ; all things are lawful , all things are pure , &c. and so sit dovvn and say , you are redeemed , and have right to all ; but first passe through all things , one after another , as the light leadeth you ; and with a true measure see , if you be from under the power of any ; when you have proved this throughout all things , and found your freedom , then may you say , all things are lawful , and know what is expedient , and what edifies your selves and others , and the rest to reign over , without bondage thereto : and this is the liberty of the sons of the new creation , born again , not in bondage ; whose liberty is glorious above all created things ; and these are the pure , to whom all things are pure , who have proved all things with that which is pure , and hold fast onely that which is good , and the rest are free from . and this ever mind , that whatever freedom you obtain through the sufferings and patience of christ in spirit , you part not with it to please the flesh , but hold it as your everlasting possession purchased for you , not with corruptible things ; so that which is dearly purchased , let not lightly go ; but remember israel , who was redeemed out of aegypt with much hardships , and many signs and sufferings , but soon in hast got up that which said , let us return back again ; and this grieved god above all : and this you will find ready to rise upon every further hardship and want , as it was with them . wherefore stand fast in that which you have proved to be liberty indeed , and by no means look back nor hearken to that which is behind , to let it overtake you again : remember lot's wife ; and the wrath of god will ever be upon that mind which looks back into old things , which are judged in the light , and led out of with the life : wherefore stand single in your mindes to follow nothing new or old , but what the holy spirit leads into ; for the work is a work you know not , nor the way you know not , but as it is learned in the obedience by which the soul is purified and cleared by purging out the old earthly leaven , which hath darkned the temple of god , and god's work is not seen in that nature . wherefore give all diligence to the spirit 's motion & leadings , what it moves against , and what it leades to ; for now wil god make all things new ; a new creation , new heavens , and new earth , and new heart and mind , and a new law , a new man to walk therein with his maker with chearfulness , as the old bonds are broken by the spirits leading , and to serve in newness of spirit . and as you mind the pure leadings of the spirit , and willingly follow and obey , you will come to know your creator in the dayes of your youth , and how he makes the worlds by the word of his holiness ; and how he is your father , and in what ; and how he begets you again into the heavenly delights , who was gone out from him , and drove into the earth with your hearts and affections , and so those will lead out still further from god , if you look into them , but can never come into god again , but must dye , and be changed by the spirit ; and the new creature is accepted into god , the new heart , and mind , and spirit , which is renewed after god , by following of his spirit who createth him . and this work will be darkned to your understanding , if your minds come not clear out of the old , into the new : for wrath will arise , and confusion will be to that mind which is double , where the eye is not single , kept forward in the belief of the spirit onely , but looks back into the loss , and to that which is dying and condemned ; there is the smoke , and darkness , and torment , and temptations , being enticed back into the old ; but if the eye be single , the whole body is full of light , and the faith ariseth to endure to the end of the world , and to look to the beginning and finishing of the new work of regeneration . and standing single to god herein , though the world pass away with thundering , earth-quakes , and a mighty noise , yet shall ye not fear nor faint , abiding in the meek , patient , and suffering-spirit , and the leadings of that which endureth all things to win christ : and coming out of babel , you shall not fall with her , nor be darkned with the smoke of her torments , as all that abide in her must , and of her plagues must partake ; but the pure mind rejoiceth over her in midst of all . a psalm of james , the servant of jesus , or a song of praise which he sung in the day of his deliverance , declaring the wonders of the most high , which he wrought in the day of the deep tryal of his innocent lamb ; even how the lord was with him when he was beset with darkness , and assaulted with strong temptation ; and how he brought him thorow the fire , and thorow the sea , and under the mountains and hills , and slevv his enemy which had dominion over him ; and so brought him to know himself , and then exalted him over death , and delivered him out of the pit in the sight of his enemies ; and brought him to the pleasant valleys & springs again , & caused his glory to descend upon him , in which he met the flock of his father , in whose love he became joined and knit unto them that had forsook , or stood at a distance from him . also many other weighty sentences ; all vvhich are set forth , that the vvonders of the lord may be seen , and that flesh may not boast nor glory in the time of prosperity , though much of god may be opened and knovvn , and that the tender-hearted may not despair in the times of deepest sufferings , temptations and tryals ; but patiently vvait on him vvho worketh all things in his people , according to the counsel of his ovvn vvil , that he over all , and in all things may be glorified , vvhose right alone it is : so be it ; allelujah . it is in my heart to praise thee , o my god ; let me never forget thee what thou hast been to me in the night by thy presence , in the day of trial when i was beset in darkness , when i was cast out as a wandring bird , and when i was assaulted with strong temptations , then thy presence in secret did preserve me , and in a low estate i felt thee near me , when the floods sought to sweep me away , thou set'st a compass for them how far they should pass over ; when my way was through the sea , and when i passed under the mountains , there wer't thou present with me , when the weight of the hills was upon me thou upheldst me , else had i sunk under the earth , when i was as one altogether helpless , when tribulation and anguish was upon me day and night , and the earth without foundation ; when i went on the way of wrath , and passed by the gates of hell ; when all comforts stood afar off , and he that is mine enemy had dominion ; when i was cast into the pit , and was as one appointed to death ; when i was between the milstones , and as one crushed with the weight of his adversary : as a father thou wer 't with me , and the rock of thy presence when the mouth of lions roared against me , and fear took hold on my soul in the pit , then i called upon thee in the night , and my cries were strong before thee daily ; thou answeredst me from thy habitation , and delivered from thy dwelling place , saying , i will set thee above all thy fears , and lift up thy feet above the head of oppressi in : i believed , and was strengthened , and thy word was salvation : thou didst fight on my part when i wrestled with death , and when darkness would have shut me up , then the light shone about me , and thy banner was over my head ; when my work was in the furnace , and as i passed through the fiery spirits , thy faith staied me , else through fear i had fallen ; i saw thee , and believed , so the enemy could not prevail : vvhen i lookt back into thy work i was astonished , and see no end of thy praises : glory , glory to thee , saith my soul , and let my heart be ever filled with thanksgiving ; whilst thy works remain they shall shew forth thy power : then didst thou lay the foundation of the earth , and feddest me under the waters , and in the deeps didst thou shew me wonders ; and the forming of the world by thy hand : thou least me in safety , till thou shewedst me the pillars of the earth ; then did the heavens shower down , they were covered with darkness , and the powers thereof were shaken , and thy glory descended ; thou fill'dst the lower parts of the earth with gladness , and the valley was opened , thy showers descended abundantly , so the earth was fill'd with virtues . thou madest thy plant to spring , and the thirsty soul became as a watered garden : then didst thou lift me out of the pit , and set me forth in the sight of mine enemy ; thou proclaimedst liberty to the captive , and called my acquaintance near me , they to whom i have been a wonder ; and in thy love i obtained favour in those who had forsaken me ; then did gladness swallow up sorrow , and i forsook all my troubles . and how good is it that man be proved in the night , that he may know his safety , that every mouth may become silent in thy hand , until thou make man known to himself , and have slain the boaster , and shewed him the vanity that vexeth thy soul : dear friends , dwell in the pure power of god , and in the undefiled life walk towards one another , and feel one another in harmless hearts , and in the bowels of our lord jesus christ judge all straightness in your selves , rather then one another ; how good a thing is unity of spirit and mind . and how precious is that soul that seeks peace with self-denial ! god is near you , who seeth all your works ; and evil thoughts slay the lord of peace , and grieves god exceedingly : but that is the child of his love , and son of his bosom , that seeks not himself , but can lay down his life for another ; o feel that spirit and life , my dear friends , and wait for his appearance , who is that life in whom he comes with power ; thy peace shall be as a river that is clear and broad , which shall not be dryed up ; but thou shalt drink into eternal rest , and quietness shall fill thy dwelling , and the god of peace and holiness will delight in thee , and in the end thy fruit shall break out , and thou shalt not long be hid , but thy god in whom thou delightest , shall cover thee with his glory , and make thee to shine in his light ; and the lamb shall speak out of his temple , and shall be confessed too ; but the self ended spirit will wither , and that which lifts up it self , will fall to nothing ; and back-biters , and whisperers , and they which carry tales to make debate , will god thrust away far from him , and the meek shall enjoy his inheritance alone , who hath sought his praise from god , and not from men ; therefore take heed to your spirits in gods fear , and keep the unity and covenant of god , and grieve not gods spirit , nor provoke any to wrath : and again i warn you all in the bowels of jesus christ , speak not evil , nor think evil of brother or sister ; for if you do , you cannot be guiltless before god , nor stand before the enemy in the time of tryal ; for evil thoughts will eat out your peace and precious life , and devour your strength with god , and make way for many evils to enter and prevail upon you . even the lord god of eternal power preserve you all , who hath called you , and given you a name amongst the living ; for in him is my hope and confidence concerning you all , for the adversary is near you ; but to him that is true and faithful i commit you all , whom many of you have known from the beginning ; and as you dvvell and vvalk in his power of life and holiness , love and peace , god vvill keep you from all evil , bear you , and lead you into grovvth and improvement of vvhat he hath commited to you , and in faith and peace you wil be kept from running to the hills to save you , or 〈◊〉 making a refuge of a lye ; but with the everlasting truth will you all be girded and armed with the word of life against all wickedness of flesh and spirit , within and without . and god eternal kill the world in you all , and throughly crucifie you to it in every affection , and out-leading power , so that you may all witness him come who is the end of the world , and eternal life , and in him walk in the singleness of your minds as freeborn-children , redeemed into perfect liberty with him : and dear friends , meet often together , and so build up your selves above visibles , that you may enter into peace and life everlasting : the day of god hasts on apace , which will try every mans spirit , and every mans work , of what nature it is , and none will be saved , but who are of god ; and such he receives into himself , who is builded up to him in that which is from above : but the wandering and unstable spirit he will shut out , and punish with perdition from his presence evermore . wherefore dearly beloved in my soul , above what i can write , this i lay upon every one of you in particular , and warn you , that you prove and examine your selves herein , what spirit you are of , and what is your freedom herein ; and note that spirit which steals your minds into earthly things , and wandering thoughts , for that is not of god , but is of this world , & works after the power of the prince of the air ; and in this spirit all have fellowship with the world , & are in the power wch works against god and the lamb ; nor can any in that spirit serve god , nor have fellowship with him in the light ; for it is carnal and devillish , and shut out from god the father of light , and so becomes a vagabond , wandering , chaffie spirit , not capable of god's counsel nor service ; nor can you have fellowship with the brethren in the light and power of truth , so long as this reignth and is followed by you ; and so this must be judged in every motion of it , that it may be subdued and put under foot , lest being once enlightened , you become wandering stars from god's presence for ever . so be you faithful to god who judgeth you , and gird up the loyns of your minds , and wait for stable , heavenly spirits , that you may be born thereof , and rule therein over your selves , and so overcome the world , that you may walk at liberty in god , and in christ jesus whom he hath sent ; and herein is life eternal , and rest to your souls , what ever befall you ; and onely blessed is he that enters thereinto ; and it is the faithful that enters , and in faith and obedience is the covenant kept , which keeps quiet the mind , and in perfect peace in all conditions , the purchased possession of every redeemed soul , thorough the blood of jesus . so god cover you all with his spirit , being buried into his death ; and the almighty arise among you , and judge every evil root in its first motion , and give you the knowledge of himself in love , and build you up above all strife and enmity , and fill you with his grace , and season your hearts therewith , and make himself your delight , and bless you all , and encrease you , my dearly beloved ones , to whom bowels of dear love runneth , even unto the least of you all ; in your innocent simple desires , i am one with you all , and with my god for you all , that not one of you that ever have tasted of the call or power of god , may be lost , or offended , or driven away ; god eternal build you up into his life , and give you an inheritance in him that seeks the lost , and brings back that which is gone astray . dear friends , read me here , and feel my bowels towards all that are tempted , or fallen ; and treasure up mercy against the day to come ; even as ye look to be forgiven , so forgive one another unfeignedly , and keep your selves separate from the world , and every pollution : o fear not the world , neither covenant with man , nor say , a confederacy ; but fear the living , powerful god of heaven and earth , who is a sanctuary to every clean and faithful heart ; and to him i commit you all , who is over the world , and worketh in you , to make you eternally as he is , that you may be his sons and daughters for ever , to whom give thanks and praise for evermore , amen . you are often in my remembrance . j. n. this epistle fore-going was given forth since the former part of the book , about the fifth day of the fifth month , . the end . reflections upon george keith's late advertisement of a meeting to be held by him and his friends, at turner's-hall on the eleventh of the fourth month, to which he saith, william penn, thomas ellwood, george whitehead, john penington, and the second days weekly meeting at london, called quakers, are justly desired to be present, to hear themselves charged, &c. penington, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) reflections upon george keith's late advertisement of a meeting to be held by him and his friends, at turner's-hall on the eleventh of the fourth month, to which he saith, william penn, thomas ellwood, george whitehead, john penington, and the second days weekly meeting at london, called quakers, are justly desired to be present, to hear themselves charged, &c. penington, john, - . p. printed by t. sowle in white-hart-court in grace-church-street, [london : ] caption title. signed at end: john penington. imprint from colophon. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng keith, george, ?- . -- advertisement of a meeting (about some controversies in religious matters of faith) to be held by george keith and his friends, at their usual meeting-place in turners-hall in philpot-lane, london, the eleventh day of the month called june, -- early works to . society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reflections upon george keith's late advertisement of a meeting to be held by him and his friends , at turner's-hall on the eleventh of the fourth month , . to which he saith , william penn , thomas ellwood , george whitehead , john penington , and the second days weekly meeting at london , called quakers , are justly desired to be present , to hear themselves charged , &c. although i might here justly except against the constitution of the meeting , the authority and warrantableness of his peremptory summons , the reasonableness as well as seasonableness of the demand , &c. yet being willing to pursue method , though i have no good example before me , i shall first take cognizance of what g. k. assigns , under several heads , as the basis of his proposed , as well as imposed debate . if they are not of weight , or agreeable to the structure raised , a summary at the close may suffice , that i dilate not the controversy unnecessarily . his first article is , that w penn hath accused him in a publick meeting at ratcliff , of being an apostate , and impostor , and endeavouring to pluck up the testimony of truth by the roots . to which i say , had not his apostacy been sufficiently proved , even by himself , in the scene of his transactions , both private and publick , since his last coming into england ; yet inasmuch as those several apologetical tract : ( written by tho. ellwood , caleb pusey and my self , entituled , a farther discovery , truth defended , a modest account , an apostate expos'd , to two of which ( viz. those of t. e's ) he tells us , in his postscript to a late pamphlet , stiled , gross error , it is probable a due answer may be given in due time ) remain as yet unanswered by him , the charge lies upon him , and the proof at his door , not to be supplied by a verbal conference in a corner , as the most publick disputes are , in comparison of the press . the name impostor , i remember not to have heard made part of the charge till now , yet if he will consult his dictionary , as he once did upon the calling of a friend impudent rascal , he may find it denotes a deceiver . but the name i fear more offends him than the nature ; yet that , and his endeavouring to pluck up the testimony of truth by the roots , as they suit with his actions , so have they been in print proved upon him in the above recited and other treatises . nor will his pretence in the succeeding lines , that w. p. promised to answer him ( before many witnesses ) when g. k. told him , he thought to put him to prove his charge in the face of the nation , stand him in any stead ; for that he may yet do , when g. k. makes the onset . is he so idle to think a provocation to meet him at turners-hall , is a putting him to prove his charge in the face of the nation ? what he adds as a charge against w. p. out of his books , i refer till i come to his third head , wherein the objects the same against g. w. he goes on to a secondly , whereas thomas ellwood hath printed sundry defamatory books against me , i charge him to be guilty of false accusations , &c. then to a thirdly against g. w. of which more at on ; so to a fourthly against me , for printing ( as he alledges ) defamatory books against him , and accusing ( he should have added proving too , for that was also done ) him to be an apostate , &c. and fifthly , against the second days weekly-meeting at london , for approving or countenancing those books , and another signed by caleb pusey ( of which above ) and then declares , if it happen that few or none of us be present at the said meeting , being conscious ( as he saith ) of the badness of our cause , his full intention to be present with his friends , at the said time and place , to make good the charge against us , to which he allows any moderate and friendly people of other professions to be present , so far as there is room without crowding . and is all this busle , i pray , to answer or evade our charge ? in what time doth he propose to enervate so many quotations , arguments , deductions , instances , &c. out of his and others books , to shew the fallacy of the one , the inconsistency of the other ; the perversions , forgeries , false acusations , &c. when those very books of t. e's ( not to mention the rest ) which he hath given some faint expectation he would answer , are above eighteen sheets of large paper , close printed ? is this man in earnest , or doth he think any judicious man can take him to be so ? or doth not he rather seek to make some bravado , some idle flourish to slip from his purgation ? indeed the very title page be speaks some such thing , where he proposeth , not a clearing himself , but a recriminating others . he tells us , we are justly desired to be present , to hear our selves charged , and proved guilty of the following things , and we shall be freely heard , to answer to our several charges . but stay a little , all in good time ; we are upon the defensive , he upon the offensive part , defending our friends and society from his repeated , impetuous slanders and defamations , wherewith he had unjustly loaded them , and labouring to throw off the dirt he had endeavoured to fling on , even while he would have laid claim to membership , yea eldership . and in the prosecution hereof , when he calumniates , we detect him ; when he deviates from his former pretences and principles , we justly expose him , and declare him to be a detracter , apostate , &c. having first proved it upon him . now if he ( who is the aggressor ) find himself aggrieved , how can he expect relief ; by falling upon us , for so charging him , or by evidencing his own innocency ? but his work is a meer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he begins at the wrong end ; instead of discharging himself ( which he knows he can never do ) he re-charges us , making it a crime in us to tell him he did amiss , though we shew wherein ; for which we must ( if we will answer his challenge ) be convened before him and his , to answer ( in a meeting of his own picking ) to several general heads , the discussing whereof , even before competent judges , as they would branch forth into many particulars , so perhaps ( were the auditory a more composed , settled company , than this is like to be ) would take up instead of a day , weeks to debate . and when all is done , the controversy hitherto hath been publick in the face of the nation and nations , there it will be in private , in respect of what comes abroad in print : nor is such an assembly like to determine the matter without the press , but to renew a fresh occasion to print , yet perhaps with this hoped advantage to the proposer , that running off from that cause he is already hampered with , and uneasie under , he may wrangle a fresh upon some out-skirts of the controversy , and drop the main one . and this i take to be the design . his thirdly ( which i promised even now to take notice of ) is levelled against geo. whitehead for joyning with a prevailing party in that called the yearly meeting , to pass ( what he calls ) a most unchristian censure of excommunication against him , without proof , &c. but why is g. w. here singled out , and not the whole prevailing party , as he terms them , included , except that he have a more particular pique at him ? in the same paragraph he goes on and tells us , i offer to prove the said george whitehead , out of some of his printed books ( which it doth not appear that he hath retracted or corrected ) guilty of most erronious and hurtful principles , contrary to the fundamental doctrine of the christian faith and religion . the like he had said before of w. penn , only with this addition , that w. p. is guilty of gross contradiction to himself ; for he is forward at charging ; when it comes to proof , he falls short . yet may i remind him , that two books lie upon his hands unanswered , which treat of this very subject ; the one written by t. e. called , truth defended ; the other by my self , entituled , an apostate exposed , in answer to three of his , called , nameless bull , true copy , and gross error . in the one they are cleared from several false deductions , inferences , &c. brought by g. k. to which he pretended he would give answer , but never did yet ; in the other his quotations out of those very books of theirs , out of which he hath since pickt quarrels , are oposed to his later sense , not only of the authors , but of the very books themselves , to which also no answer hath been yet given . so that it is not so much his different sense ( or opinion ) of g. w. and w. p. ( as he would insinuate , p. . of this advertisement but even of their books , calling that orthodox one year , which he represents as hetrodox another ; that i was drawn to detect and expose . however two things occur to me from the premises , first , that printed books ( not retracted or corrected ) are good evidence against g. w. and w. p. and are they not so against g. k. especially seeing he hath confessed , true copy , p. . that some of his need some further explanation , emendation and correction , and promised to do it , tho' in that he keeps his word with us , as he hath hitherto done with t. e. secondly , that it is not reasonable for him to expect his renewed charge against g. w. and w. p. of the same nature as the former , should be heard and debated in a select assembly of his own , when he is debtor to two tracts , publish'd some months since , where the matter hath been so handled , that he hath not thought fit to reply . let him fairly clear his hands of what is already depending , and which he hath chose to concert in print , and then offer new if he hath any . till then he must excuse us , that we cannot comply with his empty and shifting subterfuges , whereby to turn the course of the controversy out of its due and proper channel ; whither he brought it , into an indirect one , where he would now lead us , to drown it . what follows being mostly a catching at a passage or two out of those books of t. e's , which he hath not attempted to answer , i touch the lighter on , as esteeming it an unmanly way of treating an opponent , in which i design not to gratifie him . and he is the more inexcusable , in asmuch as the odds , in his eyes , is so great between them , g. k. being a man , who ( as he tells us in his serious appeal , p. . hath the gifts both of sound knowledge and expression , with manifold other mercies bestowed upon him : t. e. on the other hand , is represented by g. k. p. . of this advertisement , grosly ignorant of human learning , guilty of pedantick trifling and quibling . but g. k. is not the only adversary , who hath made up in vaunt , what he wanted in argument , or been forced to sink under the weight of a bad cause . for great is the truth , and it doth and will prevail . he tells up in p. . he hath neither time , nor ability of outward estate , to print answers to him or others , that heap book upon book against him . what time he hath , or how he employs it . i undertake not to determine ; but he should , like a wise builder , have counted the cost before he began with us , and not blame us for answering his books , after he hath given the provocation . yet time was , when he took time to scribble books very fast , and that at a time when the press was in his parties hands ; but i must confess , from the first time that he hath met with opponents , and that he hath been put upon to prove , as well as assert time or ability hath mightily failed him . all evidence whereof he gave in his first onset , who instead of an answer to t. e. emitted an epistle , wherein he laboured to persuade friends to anticipate his work , by calling in t. e's sheets and disowning them , upon a presumption what a bugbear he was , and that he had no less than fifty perversions , forgeries and fictions , to lay to his charge . but when that had not its proposed effect , to condemn t. e. unheard , for his proof was yet to produce , but he was obliged to print his answer , such as it was , more noise than matter , or forfeit his credit ; a reply at length came out under the title of a seasonable information , &c. and t. e. rejoyned in his , called , a further discovery , which hath lain upon g. k's hands ever since , though once he told us , it was probable , that and another of t. e's called , truth defended , might be answered in due time , as hath been hinted already . but now to extricate himself , he would excuse himself from printing , for want of time and ability of outward estate as well as that he insinuates , p. . that w. p's calling him apostate hath that tendency ; for he saith , his wife and children are affected with it , and that it tends to the exposing of them to ruine and want , as if he name among us for outward ends. if so , the disappointment is just . but if he be not a man alone , one of no people 〈◊〉 , which he is offended with t. e. for supposing , a man would think , so considerable a number of 〈…〉 , wherein ( he would have us believe ) his testimony is so well received , who have publickly 〈◊〉 him and his christian testimony , and that in a printed treatise too , ( as he alledgeth in the same page ) might set to their shoulders , and help ease him of his change , if his printed testimonies ●● not less grateful to them , than they are to himself . yet one thing more i cannot but observe in p. . where finding fault with t. e's perversion ( as he terms it ) upon his plain words , he saith , let the reader but read my words in my own book , and at the first sight he will see the cheat and forgery . that is more than my eyes can do at second sight ; but to return , here he refers to his own book , why did he not say , let him meet me at turners-hall , and i will prove it ? by this the ridiculousness of this meeting shews it self : for a man will readily say , controversy in print is decided by print , an abuse or forgery there by comparing book with book ; and if he thought his defensible , i doubt not but he would have done it . these short touches i hope will satisfie the candid and judicious , that we are not concerned to follow him in his several doubles and twistings , but to hold him to his task he hath taken upon himself , and that his demand is alike idle as unreasonable , if we consider either the person challenging , one that is gone off from us ; the place , a meeting set up in opp●sion to us and our meetings , which he terms in the title page , their usual meeting place , as if it had been of some considerable duration , when perhaps two months ago they had none there ; the company he calls his friends , a separation out of a separation , that hath defamed and perversly exposed friends , even when he himself was against them ; the mixt auditory , such as never were of our communion , and that they will be either moderate or friendly , we have but his bare word for , who needs a voucher for his own deportment , or that he either can or would keep out the very rabble , whom his publick advertisement is most likely to draw in , is a great question ; the peremptoriness of the 〈◊〉 as if we were at his beck to come and go , when and whether he pleased to appoint us ; the reproach , if any disorder happen , for he is none of the most orderly himself ; besides that the controversy 〈◊〉 is already in a more open , free and publick course in print , into which he drew us , and till of late hath persisted in , though some what faintly , as well as promised to pursue ; and that a hearing the never so publick , bears no proportion to the press , where he began . the which considerations , whether of weight with him or ●● , we dare leave with the unbyassed , as sufficient whereon to 〈◊〉 and refuse our compliance with his peremptory demands . john penington . london , printed by t. s●wle in white-hart-court in grace-church-street , . the quakers creed containing twelve articles of their antichristian doctrine, for which many have denyed them. publish'd by some, who have joyned with mr. george keith, in the city of london, and did formerly meet with him at turners-hall, and in divers parts of the country, as huntington, reading, bedford, and colchester. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the quakers creed containing twelve articles of their antichristian doctrine, for which many have denyed them. publish'd by some, who have joyned with mr. george keith, in the city of london, and did formerly meet with him at turners-hall, and in divers parts of the country, as huntington, reading, bedford, and colchester. keith, george, ?- . p. printed for john gwillim, against crosby-square, in bishopsgate-street, london : . marginal notes. reproduction of the original in the cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng keith, george, ?- -- early works to . society of friends -- doctrines -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quakers creed : containing twelve articles of their antichristian doctrine , for which many have denyed them . publish'd by some , who have joyned with mr. george keith , in the city of london , and did formerly meet with him at turners-hall , and in divers parts of the country , as huntington , reading , bedford , and colchester . pet. ii. . but tbere were false prophets among the people , even as there shall be false teachers among you , who privily bring in damnable heresies , even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . proverbs xiv . . the simple beliveth every word ; but tbe prudent man looketh well to his going . london , printed for iohn gwillim , against crossby-square , in bishopsgate-street , . the introduction . for the information of any sober inquirer , who may ask , why so many people , who for the space of forty years past , some more , and some less , who have been both born and bred quakers , have now left the society of that people ? in answer to which , you may hereby understand , that its true such was the unhappiness of the age wherein we liv'd , that too too many were both born and bred up , yea overwhelm'd in the gulpb of quakerism , for the aforesaid space of time , whereby we became as it were fast rooted and grounded on that foundation , by imbibing many hurtful antichristian principles , which were instilled into us by our leaders and teachers ; of whom we may as justly complain in one sense , as the prophet of the lord , did from his mouth , isaiah . . the leaders of my people have caused them to err. ( by their lies and lightness , ) yet such has been the merciful providence of god almighty to many of his poor sinful creatures , that for some considerable time past , he of his own good pleasure , opened the eyes of many of our vnderstandings , whereby we began to receive from him ( instrumentally ) some small glance of light , which we readily imbracing , and by our daily conversing with the holy scriptures of truth , ( which formerly we have been taught to slight and vndervalue , by our leaders , their books and preachments ; and do attribute that to be the great reason , or means , that we should remain so long in ignorance ) our minds became more and more inlightened thereby , giving us a true sight of our errors and mistakes , plainly declaring unto us the great necessity there was for us to embrace the doctrine of christ crucified , and to be obedient to his holy institutions , if ever we intended to be christians ; a doctrine that we were strangers unto , by reason of our education , aforesaid , and taking the advice of the apostle st. paul to the thessalonians , i thes . . . ( who said ) prove all things , hold fast that which is good. as also the apostle st. john , in his first epistle . . beloved , believe not every spirit , but try the spirits ; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. when we began to prove the spirits of many , and to try their doctrines , and bring them to the tryal of the scripture , we found a great incoherence therein , both as to doctrine and practise : also contradicting the testimony of the scriptures . where it s said , cursed is he that adds or diminisheth . vpon which a religious concern came upon many , in divers parts of this nation , who used their utmost endeavours , according to the abilities given them of god , not only to inform their brethren of their vile errors in fundamentals , but would willingly have been helpful to reclaim them ; but instead of their harkening to wholesome admonition , they turned a deaf ear ; and it may be said of them , as it was said in days past by those that regarded not the cry of the city , nor the noise of the driver , who would not hearken to the voice of the charmer , altho' he charmed never so wisely : but instead thereof , they persist in all their abominable errors , crying out , to deceive the simple , all is lyes , we are wronged ; and yet dare not to appear to vindicate themselves , unless it be with manifest contradictions to themselves , by bringing themselves in competition with god almighty ; saying , as god is one , his truth and people one , so we are one ; the same that ever we were , ever since we were called to be a people , and are not changed nor deviated in one point . altho' , as george whitehead saith , we see cause otherwise to word the mater ( then formerly ) yet our intentions are still the same . pray what consequence can there be inferred , but that they wilfully take on them the guilt of all their antichristian errors ? then to what purpose so many particular persons giving forth creeds , paipably contradicting the former creeds , and books , if we allow them otherwise to word the mater , and their intentions still the same ; whose intentions , as by their books manifestly appear , as can be proved in many hundred quotations , evidently tend to the overthrowing of the true christian faith ; which doctrine , as contained in their books , are repugnant to all protestant christians , by opposing faith in christ crucified , and his holy institutions . give us leave , by the way , to tell thee , that whatsoever the high pretentions of any may be to christianity , yet in their bold opposing the positive commands of christ , they plainly demonstrate themselves to be no christians , and from such every sincere person ought to withdraw , and come out from their communion . if any quaker , or other person , shall question the truth of what follows , we offer , for the conviction of the former , or satisfaction of the latter , to give them a sight of the originals from whence they are quoted ; and fully prove the whole against them , before any impartial auditory . the quakers creed , &c. the particular reasons which we give for leaving of the quakers are as follow , notwithstanding we could give abundance more , but we think it not material to trouble the reader with a multiplicity , seeing these few are material , against the very foundation of the christian religion ; as we could also give many hundred of quotations out of their several writers , being as so many proofs of these and other their errors , and antichristian principles , viz. . their denial of the doctrine of the holy trinity . . the blood of christ outwardly shed , undervalued by the quakers . . god and christ in heaven . . justification by the righteousness of christ . . their equality with god . the death and sufferings of christ . . the resurrection of the body . . jesus of nazareth , denied to be the son of god. . the holy scriptures . . the sacraments of baptism and the lords supper . . they call all false ministers that preach faith in christ without . . their blasphemous adorations , given to george fox , and vindicated by other quakers . sect. i. the quakers deny the doctrine of the holy trinity . no errors are more dangerous , then to deny the lord that bought us , for such are damnable , and those that hold them , are guilty of heresie , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . pet. . , . the scriptures do not tell people of a trinity , nor three persons ; but the common prayer mass-book speaks of three persons , brought in by the father the pope . another proof of the denial of the trinity , by george whitehead , and three more of his brethren . here is the three persons thou dreamest of , which thou wouldest divide out of one , like a conjurer , he is shut up with the three persons [ i. e. mr. tounsend , a minister in norwich ] in perpetual darkness , for the lake and the pit. another proof out of w. pen's sandy-foundation . if god , as the scriptures testifieth , hath never been declared , or belived , but as the holy one , then will it follow , that god is not a holy three , nor doth subsist in three distinct and separate holy ones ; and since the father is god , the son is god , and the spirit is god ; then , unless the father , son , and spirit , are three distinct nothings , they must be three distinct substances , and consequently three distinct gods. that frequent , but impertinent distinction , that god is one substance , but three in persons , or subsistances ; a most absurd blasphemy ; they the trinitarians must necessarily conclude their kind of trinity a fiction . sect. ii. the blood of christ outwardly shed , vndervalued by some quakers . the blood of christ , no more than the blood of another saint : ( who also , in the same letter , farther says ) viz. that the baptists , and independants , and presbyterians , and pope , are all of one ground , and none of you understand the blood of jesus christ , no more than a brute beast , &c. the quakers see no need of directing men to the type , for the antitipe , viz. neither to the outward temple , nor yet to jerusalem , either to jesus christ , or his blood. and where doth the scriptures say , the blood was there shed for justification ? the sheding of that blood , let out by the spear , was an act of a wicked man , and the spear an instrument of cruelty ; which to lay the meritorious cause , or stress of justification upon , its false doctrine , says george whitehead . sect. iii. that god and christ are in heaven is denyed by some quakers . if there be any other christ , but he that was crucified within , he is the false christ , devils and reprobates make a talk of him without . reader , observe it s not long since one of their preachers was heard to pray at a solemn meeting , viz. o god , who was crucified , dyed , and rose again in us , &c. your imagined god beyond the stars , and your carnal christ , is utterly denyed : to say this christ is god and man , in one person , it is a lye. observe reader , this christopher atkinson was a preacher of great fame among the quakers , and a companion with george whitehead ; altho' they have told some of us of late , that he was hang'd for felony . but that the outward person , which suffered , was properly the son of god , we utterly deny . sect. iv. justification by the righteousness of christ , denyed . w. pen saith , the justice offended being infinite , his satisfaction ought to bear a proportion therewith ; which jesus christ , as man , could never pay , he being finite ; and from a finite cause , could not proceed an infinite effect : since christ could not pay what was not his own , it follows , that in the payment of his own , the case still remains equally : since the debt is not hereby absolved or forgiven , but transferred only ; and by consequence we are no better provided for salvation . justification by christs imputative righteousness ; and wholly without us , and indeed this we deny , and boldly affirm it , in the name of the lord , to be the doctrine of devils , an arm of the sea of corruption , which does now deluge the whole world. note reader , here is justification by the active and passive obedience of christ , as the meritorious and fundamental cause thereof , before god , plainly denyed , for that was and is wholly without us . sect. v. the quakers account themselves equal with god. they that have the spirit of god , are equal with god. he that is joyn'd to the lord , is one spirit ; there is unity , and the unity stands in equality it self . he that hath the same spirit that raised up jesus from the dead , is equal with god. sect. vi. the death and sufferings of christ undervalued by the quakers . the way to recover the deceived is to lay open and discover the deceivers ; whilst they pretend to own him to be the christ , the man christ , even jesus of nazareth , who died on the cross , it may evidently appear they mean no such matter ; for they own no other thing to be christ , but that light which is in all men , the same in turks and pagans , as those called christians , which is no body of flesh . true it is , they own that which died was his body , i. e. christ dwelt eminently in him . but that body , saith william pen , is in no man , ergo that can't be the christ in his sence , which is incapable to dwell in men. sect. vii . the resurrection of the body denyed , &c. i do utterly deny that this text , cor. and , is concerned in the resurrection of mans carnal body at all : but the two states of men , under the first and second adam ; men are sown into the world natural , but they are raised spiritually , through him , who is the resurrection and the life , and so they are the sons of the second adam . they say they own the resurrection of the dead , yet deny that that body which is buried in the grave , shall ever rise again , as is proved above . what shall we say ? they mean other things like the papists , having their equivocations and mental reservations , which is sufficiently demonstrated by their otherwise wording of the matter ; but if what these men say be true , then christ did not die , for that could not be the christ that dyed , because that body could not be in any man , christ being only a spirit in their judgment . however the apostle st. paul says christ died according to the scriptures , and that he died for our sins , and he that died was the son of god ; because his humane and divine nature made but one person . now i would farther query with the quakers , or any in their behalf , did the light within die ? did that bear our sins on its body , on the tree of the cross ? did the light within shed it's blood to satisfie the justice of god ? was the light within conceived and born of the virgin mary , crucified , dead , buried and raised again ? did the light within ascend to heaven , and sit on the right hand of god , to make intercession for us ? all this is affirmed in the holy scriptures concerning the christ of god , then consequently , the quakers christ is none of the christ of god. sect. viii . jesus of nazareth denyed to be the son of god. the light within sufficient to salvation without any thing else , viz. without the man christ jesus , and faith in him . if what g. whitehead hath asserted be a truth , then we may bid adieu to jesus of nazareth the quakers say they own him to be the christ that was born of the virgin , yet affirm the true christ is the light within all men , and that he was never seen with any outward bodily eyes ; and that body was called christ , because the true christ was in him . to use an expression of their own , oh the nonsence and confusion of their dark spirits ! was there ever such contradictions as they are now found in , notwithstanding they would insinuate to the people , as if they were the most orthodox christians extant , by their seeming confessions to jesus of nazareth ; well , its only their otherwise wording the matter then formerly , although they now say , and often declare , what good can a christ without do us ? let us mind the light within , that is enough for us , and not trouble our selves with a christ without . very true , it s not well said , but wickedly said , what good can christ do us without , seeing we have i. e. the quakers , so often and open publickly deny'd him , as may evidently appear to the world ( by our books ) why then should any expect that they should make christ without to be the object of their faith , seeing they tell the world at this day , they are not changed , they are the same that ever they were , and do still adhere to their former principles , &c. then consequently they take upon themselves the guilt of all their antichristian errors . sect. ix . the holy scriptures denyed by quakers . the scriptures are not the word of god. ibid page . [ yet he says of his own writings ] to you all , this is the word of the lord. your original , is carnal , hebrew , greek , and latin ; and your word is carnal , the letter ; their original is dust , which is the letter , which is death , and their gospel is but dust , mathew , mark , luke , and john ; which is the letter . how can , or dare any say , without the highest blasphemy , that the scriptures is the word of god ? if ever you own the prophets , christ , or the apostles , you will own our writings , which are given forth by the same spirit and power . that which is spoken by the spirit of truth in any , is of as great authority as the scriptures and chapters are , and greater . christ left nothing in writing , as the rule , that we hear of ; and doubtless had he intended the rule of his followers to have been a written rule , he would have left it upon record withal particularity , this must be belived , and that done , on pain of eternal death ; if the scriptures were the rule of faith and life , &c. then because they cannot be the rule to far the greatest part of mankind , indeed to none but unto learned men , they say they believe the scriptures to be of divine authority , yet deny them to be the rule of our faith and practise sect. x. the sacraments of baptism and the lords supper denied your baptism and sacraments , as you call it , and all your ordinances , and churches , and teachings , it is cain's sacrifice . their communion , bread and wine , is the table of devils , and cup of devils . news out of the north , written from the mouth of the lord , from one who is naked , and stands naked before the lord , cloathed with righteousness , whose name is not known in the world , risen up out of the north , which was prophesied of , but now is fullfilled , george fox , page . . to say that sprinkling infants with water , is baptism into the faith of christ ; this is the doctrine of devils . i affirm , that circumcision is as much of force , as water baptism , and the paschal lamb , as the bread and wine ; and we can testifie from the same spirit , by which paul renounced circumcision , that they are to be rejected , as not now requir'd . they say , where they otherwise word the matter , they own baptism , and the lords supper ; yet deny water baptism , and condemn breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , in remembrance of christs death , and call both carnal and beggarly elements . sect. xi . they call all false ( ministers ) that preach faith in a christ without . they that are false ( ministers ) preach christ without , and bid people believe in him , as he is in heaven above . the quakers are the only ministers of christ . come protestants , presbyterians , independants , and baptists , &c. the quakers denies you all . the quakers are in the truth , and none but they . is it not great uncharitableness for them to thus applaud themselves , and to give other people such unchristian language ? as you may hear see by what followeth under their title , viz the priests of the world are , . conjurers , raising dead doctrine , dead uses , dead motives , dead reasons out of the letter , which is death ; raising death out of death , notable conjurers . . thieves and robbers . . antichrists , the priests of baal , cannot shew any scripture for their heathenish ways , and bestial worships . . witches , blind guides . . devils , the serpent is head in them . . lyars , the commission and call of baal's priests , come from oxford and cambridge , which they call the well-head of divinity ; corrupt streams issue from thence i can witness [ fetching the same commodities ] drinking a cup of the same poysonous fountain ; the fountain is bitter , the streams are no better . even the sir symons of the age run to oxford and cambridge : these are not ministers of christ , but stewards of the devil's magazine , dissemblers and lyars . . a viperous and serpentine generation , going about to murder and strangle the child jesus , holding a worm-eaten , beastly form. . blasphemers , yea , of the devil , fearful blasphemers . . scarlet-coloured beasts : a harlot full of abominations and filthiness . . babylon's merchants , selling beastly wares for a large price ; the letter , which is dust and death : the day is coming when these idol merchants , these costly sermon-makers , shall cry , &c. . whited walls , professing nothing but poysonous stuff . . ravenous wolves ▪ . greedy dogs , really they are blood-hounds , still hunting & gasping after their prey , like the mouth of hell ; barking and raging like sodomites . . eminent and ambitious pharisees of the devil ; woe , woe , woe , was the portion of these pharisees then , and woe , woe , woe , is their portion now : and woe and misery is the portion of the upholders of that treacherous and deceitful generation , &c. see also the abusive language they have given to their own friends , who dissented from them only about womens meetings , and their church government among themselves , &c. that john story , john wilkinson , and that party , were ministers of the devil , and ministers of antichrist ; and that a cursed spirit was entered into their hearts and souls . and charged william rogers , in particular , to be sealed down under eternal judgment and condemnation from god for ever , except he repented . and also said , in this state , ( except thou ( william rogers ) canst find a place of repentance ) thou art reserved in chains of darkness unto the judgment of the great day . and that the said william rogers , and others of his friends , were betraying judas ' s , wolves , dogs , and devils incarnat . and that he , and they , were heathens , atheists , and the like . it s a true saying , the tree is known by its fruits , so let the reader judge what spirit these quakers , vain bosters , and high pretenders to christianity , are acted by . to call names for , or about religion , are no christians of christ's makeing . observe , reader , would you not think , by the foregoing citation of william pen's , that he was a sober christian , and abhorr'd the calling of people names , or ill-bred language , for , or about religion ? but see how he contradicts himself in another of his books , and particularly the clergy of the church of england , &c. the idle gormandizing priests of england run away with one hundred and fifty thousand pounds a year , under pretence of gods ministers : no sort of people have been so universally , thro' ages , the very bane of soul and body of the universe , as that abominable tribe , ( of priests ) for whome the theater of gods most dreadful vengance is reserved , to act their eternal tragedy upon . an ill-bred pedantick crew , the bane of religion , and pest of the world , the old incendiaries to mischief ; and the best to be spared of mankind ; against whome the boyling vengance of an irritated god is ready to be powred forth . if the quakers expressions had been ten thousand times more significant , earnest , and sharp against that cursed bitter stock of hirelings , they had been but enough . now , by william pen ' s sentiments , in his address to protestants , as above , of whose making is he , and his brethren , of christ's , or the devils ? and remember by the way , cor. vi . . that revilers shall not inherit the kingdom of god. and james . . if any man among you seem to be religious , and brideleth not his tongue , — this mans religion is vain . sect. xii . their blasphemous adorations given to george fox , and vindicated by other quakers . we shall conclude the quakers creed with this section , which contains two blasphemous letters , written to gesrge fox , which he did not reprove , and has been since vindicated , by william pen , and others , and to this day never retracted . dear george fox , who art the father of many nations , whose life hath reached through us thy children , even to the isles afar off , to the begetting many again to a lively hope , for which generations to come shall call thee blessed ; whose being and habitation is in the power of the highest , in which thou rules and governs in righteousness : and thy kingdom is established in peace , and the increase thereof is without end. deare and presious one in whome my life is bound up and may strenth in thee stands , by thy breathings i am nurished and refreshed : and by thee my strenth is renewed : blessed art thow for ever more : and blessed are all they that enjoy thee : life and strenth comes from thee holy one : and thow art the blessed of the lord for ever more , dear dear reach unto mee , that i may be strenthened , to stand in the mighty power and dread of the lord , for the sarvisse is very great , my travell and burthen was never , soe as now since i saw thee : but dayly doe i find thy presence with me , which doth exceedingly preserve mee ; for i cannot reane but in thy presence and power : pray for me that i may stand in thy dread for ever more : deare my deare brother john cam hath been exceeding sicke and he is very weake i can say little of his recovery as yet his wife is with him she is deare and preciously kept ; their deare love is to thee , oh reach through all in thy mighty power to him this bearer can declare to thee of the work this way : jo : willkinson and jo : storey is heare , their love is dearly to thee : deare harte there is one thing that lies upon mee : i shall lay it before thee : as tuching thy comeing into wiltshire : i was there at justice stoks house : and his famaley is all prety loveing and convinced : and he is a sober wise man and there is honesty in him which will stand : and there is a pretey people that way : it hath laid exceeddingly upon me these dayes of thy being at that place : i know not such another place in all the counterey : for thee : dear : i was much wounded to know that thow was in such a rude place and suffers soe amongst them : and this was i moved to lay before thee : and great is my disere that it may be soe : the place is about miles from brestol in wiltshire one mile from chipenam a markete towne justice : stocks house , jo : cam tould me that the justice he was with was a very loving and prety man : this bearer was there he can declare to thee more : but oh that thou weare but at that place i mention : it is free and suteable for frends coming to thee : it lies much upon me : and if thow find moveings strike over thither i shall say no more of it : the work is great heare away pray for us all that in thy power we may abide for evermore : i am thyne begoten and nurished by thee and in thy power am i preserved glory unto thee holy one for ever : john audland . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e g. fox's great mist . pag . in their book call'd ishmael and his mother cast out . page . sandy founda . p. , , . w. pen , his sandy foundation . page . s. eccles's letter to r. porter , vindicated by g. whithead in his light and life . ibid p. . page . george fox , his great mystery page . . christoper atkinsons sword of the lord drawn . page . . serious apology by w. pen. page ● . sandy foundation . p. , , , . another proof see w. pen , his serious apology . p. . francis howgills works . p. . george fox , his saul's errand p. . w. pen's christian quaker , p. , . willi. pen in his invalidity of j. faldoes vindication , page , george whitehead his antidote , page th . george fox , great myst . p. . george fox , his news out of the north. p. mene tekel . p. . g. fox's answer west . pet. p. . william pen and george whitehead their serious apology p. . william pen his christian quaker p. . . e. burough's works . p. , . william pen his reason against railing . p. . . a brief discovery of a threefold estate of antichrist , &c. p. , , , . answer to w. rogers postscript . epistle of caution . p. . printed . answer to w. rogers p. ▪ . printed g. whitehead judgment fix'd . w. pen's adress to protestants ▪ p. . w. pen's guide mistaken . p. . his language to the dissenters , in his new nick-name . page . his serious apology . p. . josiah cole's letter from barbadoes to g. fox . of the twelfth month. . john audland ' s letter to g. fox . this letter is spelt and printed according to the original , to prevent the quakers caveling at their being wrong'd strength in weakness or the burning bush not consumed being an answer (formerly published under this title) to two letters written by james naylor. to which is now added several other papers written since by the same hand (whereof one is intituled, the secret shootings of the wicked reproved.) with a reply thereunto, as also to the rest respectively. by j.j. published at the request of some, for the satisfaction of others: and tendred to the serious perusall of the impartiall and un-prejudic'd reader. jackson, john, fl. - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing j b). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing j b estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) strength in weakness or the burning bush not consumed being an answer (formerly published under this title) to two letters written by james naylor. to which is now added several other papers written since by the same hand (whereof one is intituled, the secret shootings of the wicked reproved.) with a reply thereunto, as also to the rest respectively. by j.j. published at the request of some, for the satisfaction of others: and tendred to the serious perusall of the impartiall and un-prejudic'd reader. jackson, john, fl. - . naylor, james, ?- . secret shooting of the wicked, reproved. p. printed by j. macock, london : . j.j. = john jackson. reproduction of original in the british library, london, england. eng naylor, james, ?- -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (wing j b). civilwar no strength in weakness or the burning bush not consumed. being an answer (formerly published under this title) to two letters written by james jackson, john b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion strength in vveakness or the burning bush not consumed . being an answer ( formerly published under this title ) to two letters written by james naylor . to which is now added several other papers written since by the same hand ( whereof one is intituled , the secret shootings of the wicked reproved . ) with a reply thereunto , as also to the rest respectively . by j. j. published at the request of some , for the satisfaction of others : and tendred to the serious perusall of the impartiall and un-prejudic'd reader . judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgement . for , with what measure ye meat it shal be measured to you again . london , printed by j. macock . . the publisher to the reader . friend , before thou readest the insuing letters ( mayst thou be advertised ) touching the occasion of their publication : this daughter of abraham , who is the subject ) having been visited by many of the persons distinguished , and commonly known by the name of the northern people , at sundry times , and in sundry manner of waies , which occasioned ( as in her self ) much inquiry accompanied with many prayers and soul-searchings , not without great and sore temptations , from that terrible adversary , who was not wanting to help on the affliction to the utmost ; which conflict was repeated and renewed ( as oft as opportunity was given by her new visitors ) and hath produced ( in many persons whose eyes were fastned upon her ) much thinking , and some speakings , what is , or would be the issue hereof ; having this opportunity of knowledge under her own hand , i thought it was not sufficient for me to know how it stood with her soul after all those bitter assaults and contests which she hath sustained by her adversary and enemy of her peace , both within her , and without her ; but that those also who desire satisfaction herein may inform themselves hereby , this is one reason why thou hast this trouble given thee , but chiefly and above all , that it might be testified to sons and daughters , to small and great , that notwithstanding all her exercises and tryals , which have not been small , yet her bow is caused to abide in strength , to the glory and praise of him , on whom it is given her to beleeve ; and this is necessary to be known by those who desire to know it . touching the letters themselves , i wil not at this time say any thing , but leave it to the most wise and holy god to direct the wife in heart to codsider them . farewel . to her hand who is the wife of james noel , these deliver . friend . a seed is in thee which i own , which hath kept thee tender , in a measure of the fear ( for whose sake ) some openings of the lords love thou hast had , by which some hope thou hast had of the presence of the father of love , which hope was given for staying the mind till the light of the covenant should appear to lead thee into the covenant him to know , and his face to see which is eternal life , this was manifest in the time of thy tenderness to stay thy mind on him till the time appointed , that the door of the inheritance should be opened , whereat to enter ; but ( in the mean time ) the fear being lost , another principle hath catcht the hope into the comprehension , and hath led thee out into the visible expectations of a thing to come , so that instead of growing into that measure ( thou hadst till the day thou hast lost that which thou sometimes had , and knows not where to come to it again thy imaginations being got betwixt , ( which ever shut up the kingdom ) and now thou stands a far off , when thou should enter and not being joyned to that spirit which is able to try all things , and hold onely to that which is good thou art afraid to be deceived ; yet hast thou not that which thy soul longs after to be deceived on ; but that which hath deceived thee puts thee in fear , and this thou should see , didst thou take counsel , where thy hope was first awakened : and this ( i say to thee in the word of the lord ) that covenant must be broken to which thou art now joyned ( before ever thou see his presence ) whom thy soul longs after , though there be nothing ( by that spirit that n●w rules in thee ) more feared , and this that in thy conscience ( which is my witness ) thou shalt confess too at that day , when the book is opened . a lover of thy soul , james naylor . for the hand of him who is called james naylor , these are ▪ friend , your writing i have ( i trust ) seriously considered of . i therefore do ( the more ) wonder how thou durst adventure upon one thou knew'st not , to lay such a heavy charge as thou hast done on me , whose face thou never sawest ; a seed thou ownest in me , which thou affirmest kept me in a measure tender , for whose sake ( thou sayest ) i received some openings of the fathers love ; to this i answer , i find no seed can keep from sin , nor make known the fathers love to poor sinners , but jesus christ ; the scriptures bare witness thereunto , iohn . . . matth. . . him once received is the onely true door of entrance , and onely new covenant-keeper ; and in those onely is , and doth christ jesus make known himself unto , and they alone which have so known him , can truly bear testimony of this truth ( your catching principle ) i let passe , not knowing it ( by that name ) what thou meanest , but in the holy fear of my god , rejoyce in this that i am kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation , yet nevertheless am still kept , groaning , waiting for the adoption ( to wit ) the redemption of my body , and so , through grace , can this day testifie the gracious preservation my heavenly father doth dayly visit me with a teaching leading power of his holy spirit , whereby i find my self in the kingdom of grace , not shut out , as thou sayest , by my comprehension nor vain imagination , having received union with that holy spirit in my measure do daily take counsel , and try first my own deceivings which are within me , and those also which are without , which causeth me to turn away from so many , who profess they are sent messengers from the lord , great cause have i to take carefull heed from being deceived , and fear it also , when my onely fore-seeing lord jesus did so strictly forewarn and fore-tell what should come to pass in the last days . matth. . the good lord i beleeve ; assuredly wil as he hath faithfully promised to my soul , break every yoak of sinfull covenant , in me , 't is no grief of heart but true joy , yea wonderfully more then my pen at this season can express , to feel and finde the increase of his grace in my soul ; with his peace which passeth mans understanding , yea even thy deep censures , for thy appealing to my awakened conscience , i make my appeal already to him who alone is the alone judge between thee and me , that i know not any of thy charges to be true , thou hast sent me written in thy letter ; if now thou hast thus written by revelation to me , or by information from others , consider from whence it commeth . i say consider whether either the apostles , or the prophets thou art like unto herein , i know it to be no evill , but my duty to wait for the injoyment of all that is fore-told in the holy scriptures ; oh my soul ! wait thou on god for my expectation is from him , leave me to the lords tryal ; so do i freely leave thee , not having faith to follow thee nor thy friends , yet to manifest love to thee and thy friends , for thy soul at the throne of grace and all other outward expressions of love for thee and thy friends , as in my measure , i am able through christ . the th . of the th . moneth , . mary noel . to mary noel , deliver these . friend , had i known thee no other way , but by sight or hearing , or any outward appearance ; i durst not have writ on to thee , nor owned a seed in thee , nor do i appear to that in thee which so judges , my witness is , that in thee that never changeth , which shall confess what i have writ , to be from the eternal unity and love to thy soul which another principal calls a heavy charge ; yet art thou made to confess it in thy letter . if thou didst but see it who art yet groaning and waiting for adoption , and yet says thou art in the kingdom : truly friend thou knowst not what it is to be in the kingdom , none are there but sons ; yet canst thou not bear it , that it should be called comprehensions though it be sound and not stattering , as for those christ iesus foretold to come in the last days , they are come , and in the world have been many hundred years , and their fruits do make them manifest as he hath spoken : and were thou joyned to that seed thou talk'st on , thou should know them and avoyd them , not because they are messengers sent of the lord , but be ause they run unsent , and those are enemies to such are sent and was ever and whereas thou says thou knows not any one thing true , that i writ to thee i say if thou hadst known it , then should i not have been moved to write to thee of it : but for thy sake who knows not , who hast not , him whom thy soul longs after , which is the sum of my writing , which thou denies , calling god to iudge between us ; and yet confesses thou art waiting for adoption and redemption , which if thou had it , why shouldst thou wait for it , as that of god in thy conscience shall witness , when thou shalt cease to put the iudge a far off thee , for that wisdom could never own apostles nor prophets ; yet was they manifest to every mans conscience in the sight of god : and i● thou read me in that which is meek and longs after christ iesus , then the harsh nature will be judged , and thou wilt see that plainness is pure love , till then i must bear the reproach of the world : and looks for no other from all whom i have to deal with , knowing that my message is against the will of all men . i. n. for the hands of james naylor . friend , i am no way troubled at thy continual charges , but do ( assuredly know ) in whom i have beleeved and ( certain knowledge ) i have received of my spiritual son-ship in christ jesus , and by this holy union with christ jesus my head have been by him ) taught ( many years past ) to try the publick teachers of this nation , with those private also , who have held forth themselves to be ( sent messengers ) from christ jesus , and by his holy spirit ) to which i am united , am taught to turn from them , and from thee also , who hast run ( before thou wast sent ) ( with this false message ) to me ( assuredly knowing my self to be in the kingdom ) though men and devils say never so much to the contrary , my assurance ( wherof i speak ) came not by them , therefore they cannot take it from me , i am not afraid to declare what the lord hath done for my soul , before the faces of thousands : if i knew it were my duty , this ( with holy confidence ) do i know , and lift up my head with joy when the fire shall try ( and doth already ) every mans work of what sort it is . so i leave thee to him who is the onely righteous judge between thee and me ; desiring thee no more to write unto me , for i am taught to turn from thee , as i already have done from others ; yet remaining to manifest duties of love to thee , and thy friends , through the strength of my christ ( as need is offere● . ) mary noel the secret shooting of the wicked , reproved ; or a word to the nameless publisher of that he calls , strength in weakness , or the burning bush . now is the living god visiting his people , and gathering his seed out of babylon and egypt , and hath called out his servants , and sent them to these strange kings with his message , to bring out to light that which hath been kept in prison , whereat pharaoh is exceedingly troubled , and the king of babylons posts , meet one another with this cry : our kingdome is taken at one end the sea rages , and all that have treasures in ships are gathered to stand up for their god , and their king , to keep in bondage . but , from him that sits upon the seat of iniquity , to the magitians that use the inchantments to deceive withal ; yea , and upon all that beleive them ; shall the hand of the lord be , to make babylon desolate , and to dash her children against the stones which lie in the streets thereof , which all the builders refuse . this is the lords doing , and wo to him that doth resist him , who hath sent his word to strange nations , and to people of dark understandings , whether they will hear or for bear . and thou amongst the rest , who calls thy self the publisher of what i write to james nowell's wife , but conceals thy name as one ashamed of his vision , saying ( in thy practice ) smite him secretly , as the b●ckbiters and whisperers of old ever did , stirring up prejudice in the minds of people , and making them evil affected against the truth , so dost thou against the movings and messages of the living god in his servants , rendring them under the names of sore temptations , terrible adversaries , bitter assaults of the enemy , and such like corrupt words thou uses to inform the reader withal , before he read the letters : and when thou hast cast out thy venom against the truth of the lord , then thou covers thy self with feigned words , saying , i leave it to the most wise and holy god to direct the wise in heart to consider them : oh thou full of all subtilty , was not god able to direct the wise without thy forestalling slanderous opinions ? how hast thou helped god , or any wise man herein ? hadst thou printed them both , and been silent , then thou hadst left it to god indeed , and i should have been silent also ; hast thou dealt moderately herein , or as thou wouldst be done unto ? shall not the least of wise men iudge thee and thy spirit ? nay , hast thou not helped on the devils kingdom with lies , as i shall bring no other witness against thee herein , but her whom thou so highly commends , for , says thou , her temptations , afflictions , and conflict , was repeated and renewed so often as opportunity was given by her new visiters ; ( which visiters are these letters which thou hast published ) but saith she , i am no way troubled at such continued charges : now how must this be divided betwixt you seeing the one at least must be the lyar , both in this and divers other things i might instance : but i delight not to rake into such filth , onely i shall let thee see in a few words what a body of confusion is in this daughter thou art boasting of ; which shame might have been hid , had it not been for your glorying against the truth : and thuogh to me both thou and she is known without words ; yet before others who yet judge things according to the outward appearance : i shall tak but a word or two out of her own mouth , where by her foundation might be discovered , to the least of those who know the kingdom . she says , she knows her self assuredly to be in the kingdom of god ; yet still kept groaning for adoption : i say , the kingdome of god consists not in groaning for adoption , but in righteousness , peace and joy in that which is holy , and none are there but , ons who are adopted ; no farther in the kingdom then new-born , and self denyed , though shesay herself is in the kingdom , which never came so far as a disciple where self is standing , much less not into the kingdom . further , she confesses her own deceivings yet within her , unjudged , which are yet to try ; and the yoke of sinful convenant in her , yet unbroken : all which and much more may be taken from her own pen without wronging her , as her letters ( by thee ) published may witness ; yet withal this she says : she knows her self to be in the kingdom of god , when it is no other but exalted into the chambers of your own imaginary : for all who knows the kingdom of god can witness against you , that no such unclean stuffe comes there , no self nor self-deceivings ; no sin nor sinful covenant comes there : all this is in the kingdome of satan , and not of god , never was nor ever shall be ; blessed be god who hath condemned out all that filth and confusion , and all that lives in it , that he may keep his kingdom pure , therefore do the virgins love him : and had she known the kingdome of god in her , she had never wondred how i durst adventure to write to one whose face i had not seen , as she doth in her paper ; and ( says she ) consider whether ever the apostles or prophets thou art like herein : i say , did not god command his servants to write his message to strange lands , and strange persons ? and did he first send them to look upon their faces to know what to write to them , or doth that add to his word ? oh shame with your blindness herein ; is god become as blinde as you , who cannot judge but by carnal appearance , and will you limit him to your selves ? that eye never saw : prophets nor prophesies , christ nor apostles : but this is all you know of god or his word , his iudgments and kingdom , who are blind and deaf , as to the invisible : and so the visible and carnal iudges , judging god to be like your selves , imagines self to be in the kingdom ; but the blind and deaf , comes not there in that state . had god no other servants but such as you , it might be long ere the obedience of christ and his sufferings should be manifest in flesh , for the gathering his seed into the light , as ever he did send them to strange people who declared his word to them whose faces they had not seen , to open their blind eyes , and so bring them out of darkness into the light to be seen , which to her is a wonder . and this is thy daughter thou boasts on , and calls her a daughter of abraham , who is a daughter of disobedience , strengthening her self against the word of the lord , because the instrument had not seen her face , resisting in her own will the tender of eternal love , and this thou calts strength in weakness , which is obstinate wickedness , and that both she and thou must know , when you have finished your measure ; and of her blood i am cleer for ever . and this is the bush thou boasts of which is not consumed though fire be in it : i say , there is a time when the fire is in the bush and the bush unconsumed ; then is the seed of god in egypt under pharaoh and the magitians , and in that state death raigns from adam till moses : also there is a time when the light of israel doth burn up the bush , and devour the briars and thorns in one day , then is that god known who is a consuming fire to all that choaks his seed : go learn what this means , then shalt thou see whereof thou art glorying , and under that glory a fire shall be kindled . who would set briars and thorns against me in battel ; i will go through them and burn them together . thy murmuring against the northern people is come before the lord ; thus saith the lord , i have raised one from the north , from the rising of the sun is he come upon you , as upon morter and clay ; who declares from the beginning knows him , and who is before time can say that he is righteous , but thou canst not hear him nor declare him , who consumes the bushes , and makes plain before him , that he may plant in the wilderness , and make it a land of springs , for the poor and needy to drink at , where shall come no more fear of briars and thorns , but the little ones shall feed safely ; this , death , knows not only the fame you have got . woe to you brambles and bushes who tears the lambs on every side ; josephs bough you know not nor its fruit ( though you have got it to talk of ) you are the fruit of the cursed ground , your end is to hand : yet a lamentation there is , ( that doth not change ) for the seeds sake . by a lover of your souls , james naylor . a word to the reprover : or , some animadversions upon the foregoing paper . as now the living god , is visiting , and gathering his seed out of bondage and confusion , so hath he been ever doing from the time of the manifesting his pleasure in that word of grace , gen. . . ( if by the seed be intended the remnant whom the lord our god shall call , acts . . rom. . . revel. . . revel. . . that seed of whom its said , a seed shall serve him ; it shall be accounted to the lord for a generation , psal. . . ) this seed hath the most high been gathering since the time of their first scattering , and for that cause ( among others ) is iesus christ said to be the same yesterday , to day , and for ever , heb. . . being the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , rev. . . the apostle witnessing in the second of the cor. . . that he , and others , had received the same spirit of faith ( with those who had been before ) reciting for testimony , and proof hereof , a passage of the psalmes ; i beleeved , therefore have i spoken ; we also beleeve , therefore speak . it is therefore not a new thing ( implyed in the word now ) that god is doing , but that which was from the beginning , which doubtless every day shall be more and more perfected , but especially then , when that other angel shall fly in the midst of heaven , preaching the antient ( or everlasting ) gospel , to them that dwel on the earth , and to every nation , kindred , tongue , and people , whose appearance shall be with great power , the earth being enlightned with his glory ; which day the lord hasten for his names sake , and let all his people say , amen . against the appearance of which day , the old serpent , the devil , is at work in the form of an angel of light , that he might seem to be the enlightner of the earth with a glory , like unto the glory spoken of before ; if it were possible thereby , to deceive the very elect , under the great and specious shew and pretence of piety and sanctity : and as no other cover or cloathing can become him , pretending himself an angel of light ; so no other shape or appearance , can endanger the very elect ( they which are so indeed ) but such an appearance as this . therefore our blessed lord iesus speaking of the last times , and forewarning his scholars and followers touching false christs , and false prophets which should arise , saith , if any man shall say unto you , lo here is christ , or there , beleeve it not , for there shall arise false christs , and false prophets , and shall shew great signs and wonders , insomuch that if it were possible , they should deceive the very elect. behold i have told you before , go not forth , beleeve it not , math. . , , , . but take you heed , behold i have foretold you all things , mark . , , . take heed lest any man deceive you , mark . , . col. . . luke . . luke . . take heed you be not deceived ; for many shall come in my name , saying , i am christ ; and the time draweth near , goe ye not therefore after them . great cause have therefore all the followers of the lamb ( the true and only lord jesus ) to take heed how they heare , and who they hear , and whom they follow , and go after , trying the spirits whether they be of god , forasmuch as many false spirits are gone into the world , and the enemy is at work , knowing he hath but a short time , and his actings , are not so much , amongst us in the form & shape of a dragon ( by outward force and hostility ) as in the form of a serpent , saying now as of old to eve , yea , hath god said ? it is necessary therefore , that the witnesses and followers of christ , be jealous over themselves , and over each other , with a godly jealousie , lest by any means , as the serpent beguiled eve ( through his subtlety ) so their minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in christ , provoking one another , and stirring up one another , that as we have received christ iesus the lord , that so we walk in him , rooted and built up in him , and established in the faith , as we have been taught , not being moved away from the hope of the gospel . and it is the desire of my soul , that both the reprover , and others of his mind , were at leasure to consider seriously and calmly , whether the serpent may not be at work in them , and making use of them as once he did of eve ( in her innocency and simplicity ) to bring about his end , though they themselves may not be aware thereof . touching the reprovers paper , it contains such a bundle of arrows , and they so sharpened at the philistins forge , that they are greatly provoking , and can scarce be medled withal without begetting their like ; a most undesired and unpleasing return : and were it not for the truths sake that suffers , and for the reprovers sake , that he may see what yet he sees not , ( if god peradventure may give him repentance for his sinful rashness ) i should not trouble my self to write , nor him to read these lines . a few things amongst many i shall set free from his false glosses , and the rest shall submit to further tryal , knowing , that he before whom all things are naked , and will try the work by fire , of what sort it is , will manifest a righteous judgement in his day . reprover . ] hast thou not helped on the devils kingdome with lyes ; for sayes thou , her temptations , afflictions , and conflict was repeated , and renewed so often as opportunity was given by her new visitors ( which visitors are these letters which thou hast published ) but , saith she , i am no way troubled at thy continued charge : now how must this be devided betwixt you , seeing the one at least must be the lyar , both in this , and divers other things i might instance , but i delight not to rake into such filth . reply . ] thou that reprovest another , judgest thou not thy self ? is such a sentence in the publishers paper as thou recitest , and sayest he sayes ? read it again , and whereas thou sayest ( which visitors are these letters which thou hast published , art thou not reproved in thy self ? for as much as the publisher saith , that she hath been visited by many of the persons distinguisht and commonly known by the name of the northern people , at sundry times , and in divers manner of wayes : and these were the new visitors of which the publisher speaks ; for he speaks of persons , not of papers , but leaves the letters to speak for themselves , using these words , viz. touching the letters themselves i will not say any thing at this time , but leave it to the most wise and holy god to direct the wise in heart to consider them . for the lyar , and who it is , doe but exercise a little patience , and 't wil presently be out of all dispute , and thou wilt see cause to say , it repenteth thee of thy rashness and unadvised censure . for the better clearing of which seeming contradiction , take a few words from her own mouth , whom thou so much disdainest ( calling her daughter of disobedience ) it is a passage of a letter sent me then when i received the copy which is now printed . i have enclosed another answer to james naylor , when i was about it , my soul was distressed much under this consideration ; it was pressed with strong cries to him who alone knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation , to uphold my distressed soul under his heavy charge : this merciful refreshing i received : i will set him at liberty from him that puffeth at him , or from him that would ensnare him , so i desire to bless god , and wait for the issue . by this which is here declared , its most apparent , that the things spoken by both parties , are reconcileable , and that there is no lye to be devided between us , nor applyed to either of us , for that her soul was in bitterness , and conflict at thy charge layd upon her , 't is evident ; which sent her to him , who alone knows how to deliver his sons and daughters when they fly and cry unto him , and before her answer was returned to thee , was heard in what she feared : the strength of israel was prevailed with , and it was said unto her soul , i will set him at liberty from him that puffeth at him : thus of weak was made strong by the arm of the mighty god of iacob , who had set her above thy charge ; and therefore well might she say at the sending the answer to thee , i am no way troubled at thy continued charges ; thus hast thou this filth wiped off , and needest not be troubled , except it be that thou hast spoken unadvisedly with thy lips in accusing the innocent . reprover . ] onely i shall let thee see in a few words what a body of confusion is in this daughter thou art boasting of . she saies she knows her self assuredly to be in the kingdom of god , yet still kept groaning for adoption . reply . ] hast thou fairly and honestly recited passages , or hast thou not injured the truth in this thy recital ? shouldst not thou have used her own words when thou sayst she sayes ? thou shouldst have said the kingdom of grace , for so saith the letter : and hast thou not left out a material sentence which manifestly alters the case , and makes it speak another thing then is intended ; the words in the letter are these , yet nevertheless am still kept groaning , waiting for the adoption , to wit , the redemption of my body . which last clause thou hast wholly omitted , which is the explanation of the former , and may not be read without it : was it not an aggravation of the fault in the tempter to pretend scripture to back his temptation with an omission of a material part of a sentence , mat. . . i will not apply it , perhaps thou mightst do it ignorantly , not willingly , however at best it was not fair ( to say no more . ) . but why should it seem to thee a thing incredible , and be branded with so much contempt , that a son or daughter of god , who hath received the spirit of adoption , of sonship , and translated into the kingdom of the dear son of love , the lord jesus ; that such should groan within themselves , waiting for the adoption ( to wit ) the redemption of their body . hast thou never heard of a company of redeemed ones who were delivered from the power of darkness , and translated into the kingdom of the dear son of the fathers love , in whom they have redemption through his blood , the forgiveness of sins ? yet even these redeemed ones , these that are thus translated into the kingdom of his dear son , are advised to take heed of being spoyled through philosophy , and vain deceit , after the tradition of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ . these are further exhorted , to mortifie their members which are upon the earth ; to put off anger and to put on bowels of mercy ; and above all , to put on love , which is the bond of perfectness : there is all this , and much more to be found in that letter or estle written by paul to the colossians , who also testifies it was his own case as appears in the eighth of the romans , where notwithstanding that the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus had made him free from the law of sin and death , verse the second ; and that he and the beleeving romans had the witness in themselves , the spirit it self bearing witness with their spirits , that they were the children of god , and had received the spirit of adoption , whereby they did cry abba father : yet nevertheless this holy , and blessed witness of jesus , paul himself , and others with him , notwithstanding they had received the spirit of adoption , and all that is above mentioned , yet account it but as a first fruits of the spirit , and groan within themselves , waiting for the adoption ( to wit ) the redemption of the body , these were those who were heirs of god , and joynt heirs with christ , who nevertheless waited for the adoption in the sence mentioned before ; here is no cover , no gloss , no interpretation , no meanings but plain testimonie of scripture to which agrees that which is witnessed of the condition of other saints of god , who although they were translated into the kingdom of the dear son , yet had somthing still to be subdued and mortified , and were to cleanse themselves from all pollution or filthiness , both of flesh and spirit , perfecting holyness in the fear of god . these things considered , i hope thou wilt see cause to cease to condemn the generation of the righteous , because they dare not say they are perfect , though notwithstanding ( through the strength of christ ) they are going on to perfection , striving against sin , watching against it , and warring against it , and assured ( in their measure ) that they shall one day be more then conquerors through him that loves them , who both teacheth their hands to fight , and their fingers to war ; and what else meanes those words of this friend whom thou dost charge with obstinate wickedness , who saith in these words following . through grace i can testifie the gracious preservation my heavenly father doth daily visit me with a teaching , leading power of his holy spirit , whereby i finde my self in the kingdom of grace , not shut out as thou sayest by my comprehension , nor vain imagination , having received union with that holy spirit in my measure do daily take counsel , and try first my own deceivings which are within me , and those also which are without which causeth me to turn away from so many who professe they are sent messengers from the lord . the good lord , i beleeve assuredly will , as he hath faithfully promised to my soul , break every yoke of sinful covenant within me , it is no grief of heart but true joy , yea wonderfully more then my pen at this season can express to feel and find the increase of his grace in my soul with his peace which passeth mans understanding , yea even thy deep censures . this may suffice to clear away that body of confusion at which thou art so causelesly offended and so grossy stumblest . reprover . ] and had she known the kingdom of god in her , she had never wondred how i-durst adventure to write to one whose face i had not seen , as she doth in her paper , and ( saies she ) consider whether ever the apostles , or prophets thou art like herein . art thou not still out of the way ? wouldst thou bear it from another ? see if thou hast not again varied the case much , and judge if it be fair . doth the letter say she wondered how thou durst adventure to writt to one whose face thou hadst not seen ? or doth it not say , i therefore doe the more wonder how thou durst adventure upon one thou knowest not to lay such a heavy charge as thou hast done on me whose face thou never sawest . now consider if there be not a great difference between writing to one thou never sawest , and laying an heavy charge on one thou never knewest nor sawest : however thou mayst deem , yet this is certain , thou hast not done wel nor truly in saying she saith , and yet hast not repeated the words she spake or writ therein but thine own . . instead of answering and shewing which of the apostles or prophets thou art like herein ; thou glydest off by a question of thine own in these words . reprover . ] i say , did not god command his servants to write eis message to strange lands , and strange persons , and did he first send them to look upon their faces to know what to write to them , or doth that adde to his word ? oh shame with your blindnes herein . reply . ] hadst thou answered directly to the former question as it was propounded , and shewed to which of the prophets thou wert like in this thing , there might have been occasion administred ( berean like ) to have searched the scriptures whether these things were so or no , and by that means our blindness might have been in part removed , though our shame had rested upon us : but now in thy not answering at all , thou hast left us as blind as thou foundst us , but for the shame that must be returned from whence it came , and there abide till thou hast given better satisfaction . yet let it be remembred , that before god would charge sin upon sodom , it is thus recorded , i wil now go down and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it which is come unto me , and if not i will know : hath not this some teaching in it both to thee and me ? but thou sayst , reprover . ] had i known thee no other way but by fight , or hearing , or any outward appearance , i durst not have written to thee . reply . ] well , if thou hadst another way of intelligence besides sight and hearing , or outward appearance , and knowest persons without words , as in this thy reprobing paper thou sayst thou dost : till i see some evidence , and demonstration thereof i must give others leave to beleeve it ( if they can ) for i dare not , having no word , warranting me so to doe ; remembring what is written , who so boasteth of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain touching that which remaines in thy paper unspoken to , they are great high swelling words , full of fury , and a repetition of more charges against the innocent ; the answer to them shall be comprehended in these few words , the lord rebuke thee , even the lord that hath chosen ierusalem rebuke thee ; but let mercy rejoyce over judgement . what is before mentioned was written upon another occasion as thou mayst perceive , and before our last conference ( which to me was so unexpected , and far from my intention ) nevertheless thou having then , and there moved me to write , i have proposed these ensuing quaeries to thy consideration ; as judging that the matters in question between thee and mee , do mainly consist therein ; and i doe entreat thee as thou professest plainness and simplicity , for iesus christ , and a desire of profiting all men , so that thou wouldst in the same plainness and simplicity of spirit give answer thereunto , confirming what thou shalt say therein by plain texts of scripture , though never so briefly ; and be assured , whatever use i make thereof , yet thy reward wil be with god , who wil not forget any labor of love manifested to his name ; therefore though i be never so much despised , yet he is worthy , and for his names sake be free , and plain herein . . whether god enlightens every one that comes into the world with the light of christ ( as thou didst affirm at our first conference ) and what that light of christ is ? . whether every one that 's born into the world by natural generation , be at the time of his , of her receiving life in the womb , or at their being brought forth into the world , enlightened by god with that light of christ , or of not then , say when they are so enlightned ? whether the light wherewith every man is enlightned , be sufficient , as it is in man , to lead him to the discovery of christ , without any other means of discovery but that light that 's in him ? . whether the seed which is said to be in prison and groans through the earth for deliverance , be the seed of god , or a talent of grace in every one that is born into the world , as is before mentioned ? or whether it be in any one before they be regenerate and born again , and what that seed is ? . what that perfection is which is attainable in this life , and whether thou thy self art perfect , and sinnest not ? . what the spirit of a man is , and how dost thou distinguish it from the spirit of god , called the spirit it self , bearing witness with our spirit . rom. . . the th day of the fifth month , . thy friend , and a lover of thy soul , j. j. friend ; he that believes , is born of god , and he that 's born of god , is not of this world ; only such knows gods gathering the time , and way of it ; but such never questioned the light of christ nor the sufficiency of it for by that alone was they gathered , and against that in them did the old serpent rage , who now is at work , and his actings are now amongst us , as much in the form of the dragon , and his power as ever ; though in some he acts in the form of a serpent binding in secret , being ashamed as yet of open persecution ; yet these in whom he thus acts being the head , are joyned to the other all against the lamb ; and these are the false spirits gone out into the world , and are in the world , and of the world , though of divers colours and forms , yet all in one work , by which they are all known , as christ hath said ; and as christ the true light , and sheepheard is gathering the seed , so these tears are boundling together ; and as they come nearer the fire , their smoak ariseth , whereby to darken the light of the sun : but who takes christs counsel keeps within , where the kingdom and light is , and goes not forth after them , and such their smoak cannot blinde , who keeps in the kingdom of light , and everlasting covenant . as for thy reproachful words cast upon my paper , i leave it to clear it self , in the sight of the wise ; and for the philistims forge , i never were at it , so thou may reprove thy self till thou prove that i was . a few things thou sayest thou wilt clear from my false glosses , and the rest thou wilt leave to gods judgement , but must not god judge of those hast covered also ? but had it not been more plainness to have said , thou wilt put a gloss upon as many of them as thou can have a pretense for , and the rest thou wilt let alone : this thou hast done , though thou hast not said it . and thou would charge me with lies , because i say she says i am no way troubled at thy continued charges ; but if thou read her papers over , thou may find the thing confessed by her : also thou would charge me with a ly , because i say the visitors are those letters published , and thou sayest the publisher speaks of persons , not of papers i say , let the things published be witness against thee herein , wherein is no persons named but i and she : and whereas thou sayst the publisher speaks not of 〈◊〉 if thou read his first line , thou mayst see he speaks of letters , and then thy testimony is false , unless thou think to escape between the word papers and letters ; but there thou canst not hide thy self ; and seeing the publisher names no other visitors in particular but i , and i not visiting her any other way but by these letters , must not those papers needs be the visitors spoken of ▪ nor doth my paper exclude any other visitors , but in answer to the particulars published . again , thou goest about to put it out of dispute who is the lyar , and to clear thy self , thou wouldst have me take a few words from her mouth , wherein she tells how she was distressed under my heavie charge ; and in her letter before she said , she was no way troubled at that charge , and so thou hast proved her the lyar ( as thou sayst by her own words ) and so put it out of doubt : and when thou hast done , thou goes about to clear her by thy crooked way , that she might be distressed in soul for a time at my letters , and yet no way troubled at them : but this cover will not hide thee , these two cannot stand together , the matter being naught , raving in it makes it worse : also thou chargest me , because where she says assuredly she knows her self to be in the kingdom , and my offence is , because i call this the kingdom of god . i say in scripture i read but of two kingdoms , the kingdom of god , and the kingdom of sathan , reading no where of the kingdom of grace , that i know of ; and she in this letter not naming any kingdom in particular , my offence is , that i took her words in the letter sense : and whereas thou sayst the words in the letter are these , where she says , she knows her self assuredly to be in the kingdom : i should have said the kingdom of grace , for so saith the letter : i say read that letter again which speaks of assuredly , and see thy self mistaken ; but if she or thou intend a kingdom which is not the kingdom of god , i shall not contend with you about it ; so in thy next thou may send whether thou intend the kingdom of god , or some other kingdom imagined , which the scripture speaks not of ; and thou heaps many of the saints words together , whose conditions thou never learnedst of god : and thou tells of mortification , and anger , &c. but deal plainly , and tell us , in anger , or any unmortified thing in the kingdom of god ? also take in her condition , which thou hast missed in thy answer , and tell us whether any self be in the kingdom , or any who have their own deceivings within them , or that have the yoke of sinful covenant within them , hast thou not a cover for these things as well as the other ? let it be seen what a kingdom it is thou be rest witness to , whether thy rest be in the poluted , or where no polution cometh : another thing is , because i set down the word wonder for more wonder , and such like words thou art carping at ; and because i omitted , one thou knowst not , i say a lye is better omitted then set down : but if it be such a fault to miss a word , or a sillable , when thou hast the substance ; then first judge thy self , who in printing her letter , hath missed both in words and sense , as i can shew her hand against thee herein , were it worth contending about : thou tells of searching the scriptures berean like ; i say the bereans did not search the scriptures to oppose the light , nor to deny that spirit that reveals things to come , but those who search the scriptures to that end , must needs be left blind , as they are found blinde ; and for thy unbelief in that spirit , that giveth knowledge without outward appearance , i say , thou might have spared to have written to me of it , for i knew it before of thee , and all that oppose the light , then must , own the light that leads out of the world , and thy own imaginations , before thou know the spirit of revelation , or believe in it ; yet all thou knows without it , is but as thou knows naturally , or bruit beasts , and in that knowledge is unbelief , opposition , and death with which the spirit of iudgement is rebuked , and shut out from ierusalem , and rejoyceth in the flesh , and speaks evil of the spirit of light , that leads to mercy , and is the light of ierusalem ; which hath no other light but it which all the world is at enmity with : thou says at our last conference i moved thee to write , so thou hast prepared these ensuing queries : i say , deceipt speaks , i moved thee to answer what was then in hand , not to query , which first thou might have done , and then queried ; but the latter is of more advantage to the tempter , and hath been in all ages ; yet thy queries i shall answer . . to thy first i say yea , and that light is that which convinceth the world of sin , and manifests thine deeds of darkness . . to thy second i say , the light and life are one , and being brought into the world by the life , so soon at the creature is capable to be tempted to sin , from the life the light ariseth a witness against sin , if it be but minded ; but not being taken heed to , but disobeyed , the eye is blinded by the god of this world , and through the continuance of sin , is the conscience sceared , and the heart hardened against the light , till they know no gospel but the letter ; receive it if thou canst. . to thy third i say , that light is sufficient to all that beleeve and follow it ; but to the unbeleeving and disobedient a rock of offence , and stone of stumbling , even to the builder , for they that rebel against the light knows not the ways of it : yet is the light sufficient though they turn it into their condemnation ; but had thou known him , whose appearance is with great power , and whose glory enlightens the earth , which thou art talking of , thou had not asked this question . . to thy fourth , i say that which groans for deliverance , is the seed of god , and to them who so groan is the grace to , and that grace being beleeved and followed , the seed is raised , but who turn this grace into lasciviousness and live in their own wills , are kept in death , and such knows not the seed of god , and therefore persecut ; it , and thou that tells of this seeds groaning under the earth for deliverance , and then asks if it be in any one before they be born again , manifest thy confusion and ignorance of the new birth . . to thy fifth , i say that perfection is christ iesus , and his life made manifest in mortal flesh and self denyed dead and buried , and there is no sin : but thou that tells of going on to perfection , and knows not what it is , art going thou knowst not whether , and stumbles at the light which should guide thee . . to thy last , that spirit is that which in fallen man lusteth after the works of the devil ; and worldly things ; but receiving the light of christ , and by it being guided , it comes to be redeemed from those lusts , and joyned to god , and receives his witness , and so loves and serve him , which before served satan and the world . thus having answered thine , in as much plainnses as i can to the understanding of the meekest of the children of light , i return these again to thee , desiring the like from thee in as much plainness . . is the living word of god received or known in this life , any other way but in spirit within , or is it visible or invisible , or can any have the word of god , who hath it not in spirit , is the covenant of god and his kingdom within or without ? . can there be any redemption for the creature with out christ in them ? and is not he the only light and way to the father in the creatures ? or can any come to god any other way but by his light , was it sufficient before the letter ? and what is the thing that must be added to it now , to make it sufficient ; seeing its sufficiency is now questioned , which never was before by any that professed him come in the flesh ? . whether any who , read the letter without this light of christ it them , can find out the mystery of it , or the way to the father , or do not all who have not learned first of that spirit , wrest the scriptuure to their own destruction ? or can any speak or walk according to the word , who have not the light in them ? . whether the prophets the christ , or the apostles , did ever preach any other light but the saving light of christ , which is the true light , which being beleeved and followed , will lead out of darkness to the father of light ; and was that light which john calls the true light , the light of christ , and who they are that have not this light tendred to them , and what is their condemnation , or is any light of christ 〈◊〉 of in the letter not sufficient ? . doth not the man of sin sit in the temple of god within people , till he be cast out , and must not the light of christ reveal him within 〈…〉 or 〈◊〉 the letter 〈◊〉 , reveal him within , without the light ; or cannot the light of christ within rev al him , and the spirit of light cast him out , without-the scriptures ? . what is the inward man , and what is the outward man , spoken of in the scripture , and how doth the inward man renew , though the outward man perish , and what in the several food of each man , and where it is to be found , what is their several fruits , and from what do they arise , and can any redeemed one bring forth the same fruits that was before the fall , or fruits better , or fruits not so good , and from what different ground shall they now arise , in redeemed ones ; and whether the second adam . can recover to man in this world what was lost here in the first . these being plainly answered , people may know whether they be in the first adam or in the second . james naylor . reply to the fore-going paper . friend he that is born of god , in plainness and simplicity of his heart , utters the things which he hath heard and learnt of him , and can truly and honestly witness , that as he beleeveth so he speaketh , viz. plainly without warping or prevaricating , not departing from the truth by any covers or glosses , but speaks out of a sincere heart , as before him , whose eyes behold the secretest thought . at the reading of thy paper in answer to mine of the th . of the last moneth . i was grieved ( yea and i am so ) to see such an appearance of a departing from the simplicity which was held forth to thee therein , easily discernable by any ingenious person : and it is to me out of doubt that whosoever reads thy late paper , and compares it with what it refers to , will easily discern , more then i am willing to say touching it , however i am willing to point thee to some things among many , and to advise thy further perusal thereof . i pass by thy personal reflections ( are they not written in a book ? ) i mean all thy hard words and speeches . doest thou deal sincerely and plainly touching the person on whom thou wouldest father a lie ? not distinguishing between the words i am , and i was , is there not difference enough here ? may not that be my case this day , or in present , which was not so erstwhile , wilt thou see a case psalm . when i thought to know this it was too painfull for me , untill i went into the sanctuary of god ; then i understood , &c. was not enough said to have sufficed an honest heart , and to have set him to rights in a matter so clear ; but i refer thee to what is said and leave thee . thou art very crooked in thy reply about visitors ; for its evident the publisher spake of persons to have been the visitors , whom he calls such as were distinguished by the name of the northern people , which cannot be truly affirmed of papers or letters ( saving thy quibble about the distinction between papers and letters ) i dis-own the stistinction , i mean honestly and plainly : thou art seen in thy confounding the letters making one speak for another , its plain where thou sayest its said kingdom of god , the letters speak not so , but sayes kingdome of grace : it s obvious to every ones view that reads them . though thou sayest thou readest but of two kingdomes in scripture , the kingcome of god , and the kingdome of sathan , thou mayest read of a kingdome of heaven , a kingdome of priests , besides that of the father and of the son , but least thou shouldst say these are comprehended in the first , i insist not on them . but what may that be where it is said , matth. . . but the children shall be cast out into utter darkness ( the children of the kingdome ) if these be the children of the kingdome of god , that sounds something harsh ; if of sathan are they not in utter darknesse already : let it be considered what kingdome this must be . thou sayest i heap up many of the saints words , whose condition i never learned of god ; i say to that but this , let god be true though man be a lie ; hadst thou looked into that heap thou talkest on , thou would'st have seen what is there witnessed , and have found thy self reproved by plain evidence of scripture , and mayest do so still if thou hast leisure to look back , whatever thou judgest of me ; thou biddest me deal plainly and tell us , is anger or any immortified thing in the kingdome of god ? i answer , no ; for the kingdome of god consists in righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy spirit ; yet nevertheless , the subjects of this kingdom , are admonisht to put off anger , and to put on bowels of mercy , as the elect of god , as is witnessed in that heap thou speakest of , which mentions the saints conditions . colos. . . compared with col. . . . . and this is the kingdome i witness , giving thanks to the father , who hath delivered me from the power of darkness , into the kingdome of his dear son , which to me is grace for present , and will be glory in due time , when this vile body or body of vileness , shall be changed and made like unto his glorious body , according to the working whereby he is able to subdue all things to himself . as for that passage , where ●t is said , i know my self , &c. where thou art nibling , at the word self , what wouldest thou have had ? should it have been said , i know another to be in the kingdom ? if not another , it must be my self , for there lies the opposition . is the word self , an unsound or unsavory word , or may it not be used in a good sence ? if that be the thing , consult the scriptures , and try if it be so . luke . . it is i my self , io. . . i lay it down of my self , iohn . . for their sakes i sanctifie my self , acts . . . math. . . thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self , mark . . . iohn . . . she turned her self back , &c. cor. . . . prove your own selves . touching the word ( wonder ) instead of more wonder , or thy omission of those words [ one thou knewest not ] thou hast very weakly or willfully mistaken in making the emphasis to lie there , for those passages were recited amongst others , to shew how unfairly thou hadst done when thou saiest ( it is said ) ( or she sayes ) when it appears it was not so said , but thou very well knowest that the force and emphasis of my words lay between thy ( writing ) to one thou knowest not , and ( laying an heavy charge ) on one thou never knewest , giving thee an instance in gods dealing with sodom , which thou canst not forget : but to mend the matter , thou hast not yet shewed which of the prophets or apostles thou wouldest be likened unto for doing the like . hast thou not found a cover for that other omission of thine ( to wit the redemption of the body ) by which thou variedst both words and sence , cannot that be excused ? or doest thou hope it will be forgotten . though thou concludest me under the like guilt with thy self , yet i assure thee in the words of truth and soberness , i know not of one word wherein i have varied from the copy which was sent me , if thou wilt shew it , i shall acknowledge it . touching the queries thou hast done friendly in that thou hast answered them , but it s not satisfactory to me , forasmuch as they come without proof for confirmation by the scripture , contrary to what was desired . . to the first thou saiest , yea but provest it not , and instead of saying what it is , thou sayest what it does , and doest miss there also ; for it is the spirit , the comforter that doth convince the world of sin , iohn . . viz. of unbeleef , but all men have not the spirit , rom. . . nor are they so convinced viz. of unbeleef . . to the second its said the life and light are one , this should have been proved to be so in the subject ( man ) for its not denied to be so in god : that life was the light of men , iohn . . . to the the third , that light is sufficient to all that beleeve and follow it , but to the unbeleeving and dis-obedient a rock of offence and a stone of stumbling even to the builders , &c. thou hast here departed from the question ( which inquires whether the light wherewith every man is inlightned be sufficient ( as it is in man ) to lead him to the discovery of christ , without any other means of discovery , and thou for answer sayest , as above is said . now it is evident that what is so said by thee touching the sufficiency and efficacy of the light , is spoken of christ the light , that precious living stone , who is precious to all that beleeve , but is a rock of offence , and a stone of stumbling to the unbeleeving and dis-obedient , as it is witnessed , pet. . , , , , . this light ( the lord jesus ) is certainly sufficient to lead every one beleeving on him into the light of life , according to iohn . . if therefore by the light in every man thou doest intend christ , the rock , the chief corner-stone , the precious living stone , as he is called , pet. . . let it not be any longer hid under the name and cover of the light of christ , as if something were intended which were not christ , but off or from him which would lead to him , but let it be plainly said , that christ the light is in every man ( for so much is inferred in thy answer to this third query , or else no answer at all is given to it ) and let but the scripture witness and prove the same , and there shal be an end for ever of all controversie between thee and me , touching the sufficiency of that light ( christ ) for i am onely trying how far the candle in man must vail its lustre , when this glorious sun , viz. christ the light appears . . to the fourth , thou speakest words , but makest not any answer to the query , not shewing whether the seed that 's said to be in prison , and to groan , be a talent of grace in every one that 's born into the world , as aforesaid by natural generation , viz , ( then when they are so born ) or whether it be in any one before they be regenerate and born again , and what that seed is ? but instead of answering directly thou reflects upon my confusion and ignorance , which is a very easie way of answering but edifies not , but i will leave it with thee , heartily wishing thou hadst been more plain and free herein ( sparing thy censure . ) . to the fifth , its said perfection is christ jesus , and his life made manifest in mortal flesh , yet thou mayest read where he who witnesseth that christ lived in him , gal. . . and had the life of jesus christ manifested in his mortal flesh , cor. . . . yet counted not himself to have apprehended nor to have attained to perfection , phil. . , . therefore thou art not full nor plain in this answer , besides the omission of the last clause of the query , or couching it in obscurity in those words , viz. ( and self-denied , dead , and buried , and there is no sin ) but this signifies not to me any thing by way of answer . it s hard for thee to conclude this query ( as the fore-going ) without another censure , but i will not write after thy copy herein . . to the last , thou shewest ( as in the first ) what it ( doth ) in fallen man , as also in man renued , when redeemed and joined to god , but sayest not at all what , it is , either in the one or in the other , nor how it is distinguished from the spirit of god , called the spirit it self , bearing witness with our spirit , which were the terms in the last query , to which thou seemest to make answer but speakest not to the thing in hand . thus i have considered the several things proposed in answer , and as i beleeve , so have i spoken , concluding the answers to be neither plain nor pertinent , and altogether without confirmation or proof by any text of scripture as was desired , and therefore to me no way satisfactory . touching the queries sent from thee , to which thou desirest answer in plainness , i would say at present a few words . . it seems to me unreasonable to be put upon answering to a new stock of queries , while the former are depending , and no accompt given how far the answers are allowed , or dis-allowed , which by this thou wilt be informed . . if the former were more fully answered , which i expect , yet the fruitlesseness of this new undertaking is so apparent that it much discourageth me in the thought of it ; forasmuch as the glory of god doth not appear to me to be propounded , as the end of the inquirer , not asking as one unsatisfied , or desiring information , for that hath been dis-avowed by him already both in word and writing , in great measure , and therefore in that respect ought rather to have been put as certain positions then propounded as queries by him . further , the inquirer hath already past a sentence upon me , concluding my insufficiency toward such an undertaking : implied in those many and repeated censures of blindness and confusion , knowing naturally as a bruit-beast with such like . what issue then can be expected whatever should be said in answer by such an one that is so fore-judged ; therefore they appear to me , as they are stated between thee and me , to be fitted for matter of strife , and debate , and contention , rather then matter of edifying : and that i am sure is not for the honour of god to be so exercised ; therefore if thou doest intend true , honest edifying , turn thy queries into so many positions , let them be asserted and proved , and leave the issue to him that teacheth to profit . . nevertheless , if thou shalt review thy answers , comparing them with the queries whereunto they have reference , rectifying that wherein they are defective , and confirming what thou hast or shalt say by testimony of scripture ; i doubt not but my god will make it of use to me , notwithstanding all thy hard words , and give me freedom to entertain these thy or rather queries , for so they appear to me , every one containing many in it , and to give such answer thereunto as he shall please to inable me , or if thou shalt refuse to proceed as aforesaid ; yet in process of time thou mayest meet with what is equivalent to what 's propounded , though not in thy figure nor form , touching which thou mayest have occasion to manifest thy witness . th . of the th . moneth . i. i. friend , thou sayes my answer is not satisfactory to thee , i say my answer is so plain as i can speak the truth to the simplicity yea the least that beleeve in the light shall confesse plainnesse in them ; but there is a nature that will never be satisfied with any lesse then an advantage to blaspheme the truth ; how often these was resisted by christ in plainnesse thou mayest read , yet never could rest till they forced their ends from him , and then they said they need no more , though all they had then catcht , was their own ruine , and their posterity , by seeking to insuare him whose love was such as to lay down life for them , and the same love in what measure soever it is , finds the same entertainment with such as abide in that unbeleeving nature , which is for death , and that i am not sent to feed which is for famine , and fire ; it satisfies me that i faithfully bear testimony to the faithfull and true witnesse ; which the father in his eternal love hath sent into the world , which both thou and all that oppose it shall be made to confesse of salvation is in it , even the light , and though he hath sent me with a message , every where spoken against ; yet i know i am accepted with him and at that day i and my testimony shall be owned , though now i am as a sign and a wonder to be spoken against ; and as one at strife with the whole earth , yet in peace with him alone , and with as many as lay down their crowns at his feet . there is not any thing in thy letters lies upon me , wherein i have not dealt plainly with thee in , before the lord , not covering but laying open , to the simplicity , onely one thing thou hast twice demanded of me , to shew thee which of the prophets or apostles i am like , in sending the lords message to on whose faced never see in the flesh . i said before what might have satisfied , one who pretends to know seripture , but seeing its a particular proof thou seekest , i shall ( of many ) instance of either one which thou mayest see in jeremy . and col. . . with . this is what god did ; but if thou wilt now undertake to limit him , thou shalt know that his own remains for ever . instead of answering of my queries , thou sayest it seems unreasonable to be put upon answering new while the former are depending , i say if the dependency hang in this , till thou say thou be satisfied , then thou hast all in thy own will ; then an end till thou will , or not will ; but reason sayes thus in me , seeing i have been put upon answering all along both by word and writing , and could never refuse to answer in the plainest way i could , though not accepted ; yet that thou should once ( amongst many ) return an answer in thy way , which if it be more plain then mine , the simple may more profit thereby , but if thine prove as dark , then why should thou condemn me therein , unlesse thou will wholly be judge both for me and thy self , so let them come forth , and let the simple judge . also thy reason speaks not clear to me in this , that thou questions the fruitlessnesse of my queries , and that the glory of god doth not appear to thee to be the end of them ; i say if thy eyē had been single , thou should first have questioned thy own and by searching that with the impartial light , thou might have learned , if thou would , to have suffered me to have shared a little with thee in thy charity , seeing there is not one reason thou alledgest against me , but they may fit thy self being rightly applied . j. n. a reply to the fore-going paper . friend , if i had ( only ) said thy answer was not satisfactory , and had not shewed thee wherein , i had said ( therein ) that which signifies nothing ; or were not my spirit free , that what hath been spoken in secret , might be published upon the house top ; i mean , that what hath been transacted privately , and personally between thee and me , in relation thereunto , might be publikely manifested before ( not only the least , but ) any , or all the children of the light , that they might impartially give evidence to the plainness , or obscurity , which will appear to be in the same : i sa● , were it not thus with me , i should have as little satisfaction in my self , as i have declared to have had in these answers of thine ; and to give the assurance that it 's not in my heart to ensnare thee or force my ends from thee , or seek any advantage to blaspheme the truth , as they who resisted christ ( all which are hints of great reflection ) i am upon this score resolved ( in the power of the lord ) not to be easily drawn to this kinde of personal entercourse any further ; only for the present let me say i am far from desiring that thou shouldest feed what 's appointed for famishing , or that , that which is for fire , or death , should scape it ; let it be far from me , let that which is for burning , be burnt , for famishing be famished , for death , let it not live ; but all this in the power of the lord , and by the fire of his kindling , whose fire shall surely try the work of what sort it is , not mans day , but gods , must silence and satisfie . thou sayest ther● is not any thing in my letters lies upon thee , wherein thou hast not dealt plainly with me in , before the lord , &c. only one thing which i have twice demanded of thee , to which of the apostles or prophets thou w●rt like &c. i remember not in what terms this demand was made by me in either of my letters , neither will the letters themselves shew any such demand of mine ; but is there only one thing demanded of thee ? is there not another beside that one thing , as much and as oft demanded as the former ? i spare to repeat it a third time , its visible to every eye that peruseth the papers , that there hath been no plainness manifested therein , nor the thing it self so much as taken notice of , though thou hast been twice reminded thereof . and as for that one thing touching which thou givest particular proof , after twice minding thee thereof , though not demanding it of thee , when i consider what thou art to prove , and compare it with the proofs , i find not that , said , which thou produces them to bear witness unto . the words under consideration are these , viz. i therefore do the more wonder how thou durst adventure upon one thou knowest not , to lay such an heavy charge as thou hast done on me , whose face thou never sawest ; if now thou hast thus written by revelation ( to me ) or by information from others , consider from whence it cometh ; i say consider whether either the apostles or prophets thou art like herein . for proof of this thy practice , viz. of laying an heavy charge on one thou never knewest nor sawest , and that by writing , thou producest an example of each , one prophet , ieremiah . and one apostle , col. . . compared with . . upon the perusal of which examples its very apparent , not to me onely , but to any person that is impartial , that these examples are not parallel to the case in hand ; for ieremy though he by the command of the lord did deliver a message , touching the purpose of god in subjecting the nations to the yoke of the king of babylon ; yet this message is delivered by word of mouth to the messengers which came from those kings to ierusalem ver. . there is not a word of any writing , much less of laying any charge of sin upon them , and touching that of col. . . he that reads shall find much of consolation , exhortation , and confirmation ; but the thing in question , namely , laying an heavy charge on them he never knew nor saw in the flesh , this is not found in the place aforesaid , nay the contrary was his practice , cor. . . . i hear that there be divisions amongst you , and i partly beleeve it , what shall i say to you , shall i praise you in this , i praise you not . for we hear there are some which walk among you disorderly working not at all but are busie bodies , thes. . . . . together with that in the cor. . . it is commonly reported , and cor. . . for it hath been declared to me of you my brethren , by them of the house of cloe , that there are contentions among you , thus hee reproves and lays his charge upon persons of whom he had certain knowledge , either by sight or information nor may that passage of gods dealing with sodom be omitted , gen . . of which there hath been a remembrance before ; so that though there may be a writing to persons under a general consideration , yea though they be such whose faces we have not seen in the flesh yet when we lay a charge of sin upon persons , they ought to be known under the considerations above-mentioned , by personal knowledge , or true informations as in the example before . touching the answering the queries sent me , i abide in the same mind still , touching the fruitlesseness thereof , in all appearance as to me : for to strike off a persons legs and then bid him go is not fair , to conclude a person blind , and then to try how hee can see , is the same ; this is the case between thee and me , as in my last i hinted ; this is the whole of what i have to say to this matter , and the last that pintend to trouble thee with here about , the dear and tender lord , bring every hidden thing to light , that whatsoever is dark and lies covered under vails , either not being truly or fully understood , may be unvailed , and unmarked , that the simplicity of the truth , may nakedly appear to bee , as it indeed is in jesus : so prayeth thy friend , and he that tenders thy soul . the th of the th . moneth . . i. i. friend , is this the end of thy long profession and all thy knowledge of the living god and his unsearchable ways , that it 's become a strange thing to thee , and not to be beleeved , that he should send out his message in word or writing , with but personal knowledge , or information of men ? is this the living god who fils heaven and earth with his presence , whom thou would limit is his sons and daughters ? or wilt thou instruct him , or teach him a way to send his will to his creatures ? or else thou wilt question it : hast thou learned this of him ? let that in thy conscience judge , which will shew thee that thou art up in the comprehending nature , to which the wayes of god be as much hid now as ever : and the earth thou art without faith , now at his coming , who canst not beleeve in the light of the world , unlesse thou canst comprehend it , which darkness never could , who art preaching thy unbelief , who art an unbeliever , yet art set up for a teacher , but out of the light , wherein the faith is received , which believes in the invisible teacher . friend , thy crown thou must lay down at his feet who is the light of the world , who hath a witness in thee for himself , which is love to thy soul , it thou canst receive it ; and of thy blood i am clear at that day . j. n. in lieu of a reply to the foregoing paper , i desire the reader , that is not pre-engaged ( or partial ) to compare it with what went before , and try whether there be any such thing said as might circumscribe or limit the most high and holy god in his message , to personal knowledge or information of men ( for are not all things naked and bare before him , and who may say to god what dost thou ? ) but to shew by president what hath been done by , and towards the sons of men , and to evidence how unparalel the examples produced were to the thing in question , and for which they were produc'd ; viz. the laying an heavy charge on a person unknown or unseen ( by a man ) such an one as subscribes himself i. n this was the case in debate , and to this were the examples produced ; or nothing ; touching the residue of what is contained therein , i submit it ( with what hath been hitherto said ) to him who better knows what is in man then man . the seventeenth of the sixth month , . j. j. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- rev. . rev. . gen. . prov. . notes for div a e- reader , it is this passage , viz the redemption of my body . a testimony to the truth of god, as held by the people, called, quakers being a short vindication of them, from the abuses and misrepresentations often put upon them by envious apostates, and mercenary adversaries. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a testimony to the truth of god, as held by the people, called, quakers being a short vindication of them, from the abuses and misrepresentations often put upon them by envious apostates, and mercenary adversaries. penn, william, - . the second impression. p. printed and sold by t. sowle, in white-hart-court, in gracious-street, london : . by william penn. some pages stained. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- doctrines -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a testimony to the truth of god , as held by the people , called , quakers : being a short vindication of them , from the abuses and misrepresentations , often put upon them by envious apostates , and mercenary adversaries . psal . . every day they wrest my words . all their thoughts are against me for evil. the second impression . london , printed and sold by t. sowle , in white-hart-court , in gracious-street , . reader , occasion having been given us which we never sought , we continue to improve it to the further explanation and defence of our so much abused profession ; that , if possible , people may see , at least the more sober and candid , that we are not at that distance from truth , nor so heterodox in our principles , as we have been , by too many , either rashly or interestedly represented : but that indeed we hold the great truths of christianity , according to the holy scriptures , and that the realities of religion are the mark we press after , and to disabuse and awaken people from their false hopes and carnal securities , under which they are too apt to indulge themselves , to their irreparable loss ; that by our setting christian doctrine in a true light , and reviving and pressing the necessity of a better practice , they may see the obligation they are under to redeem their precious time they have lost , by a more careful employment of that which remains , to a better purpose . in this short vindication of our mistaken principles , the ingenuous reader may easily discern how ill we have been treated , and what hardships we have laboured under , through the prejudice of some , and the unreasonable credulity of others , and that we are a people in earnest for heaven , and in that way our blessed lord hath trod for us to glory . a testimony to the truth of god , as held by the people , called , quakers , &c. by the observation we are led to make from fra. bugg's late book , upon the bishop of norwich's giving him his recommendatory letter to the clergy , &c. in his diocess , to relieve , by a collection , the necessities of that beggerly apostate ; a copy of which letter the said f. b. hath published in his said book . and also by the observation we have made on the malicious attempts of the snake in the grass , in his first , second , and third editions , which is a disingenuous and unjust collection from f. bugg , and some other deserters of things , for the most part , long since answered ; as also lately by the book entituled , an antidote , &c. ( though because his second and third edition have some additions to his first , and that being new vamped , for a better market , he may expect a melius inquirendum after a while : yet should we follow the example of this rattle-snake , against the church , of which he pretends to be a member ( but at present a suspended one ) we might , in retaliation , not only exceed the cobler of gloucester , but the scotch eloquence , and that master-piece , the ground of the contempt of the clergy . and lastly , by the observation we have made on the relation subscribed by some of the norfolk-clergy , dated , octob. the th . . we cannot forbear thinking , that as their confederacy is deep , so it aims at nothing less than the ruine of us , and our posterity , by rendring us blasphemers , and enemies to the government , and to be treated as such . the norfolk-relation from the clergy aforesaid , charges the said people with blasphemy : first , against god. secondly , against jesus christ . thirdly , against the holy scriptures , with contempt of civil magistracy , and the ordinances which jesus christ instituted , viz , baptism by water , and the lord's supper by bread and wine . and lastly , that the light within , as taught by us , leaves us without any certain rule , and exposes us to the blasphemies aforesaid , with many others . now , because this charge refers to doctrine , rather than fact , or particular persons , we think our selves concerned to say something in vindication of our profession , and to wipe off the dirt thereby intended to be cast upon us , in giving our reader a plain account of our principles , from the perversions of our enemies . but to manifest how uncharitably and unjustly the said clergy-men have reflected upon the people called quakers , with respect to the said charge , we are contented the reader goes no further than their own printed relation , dated nov. . . not doubting but by that very relation , and the letters therewith printed , he will meet with intire satisfaction , with respect to the reasonableness and justness of the quakers proceedings in that affair , and how ready they were to come to the test , and to bring the pretended charge upon the stage , and to purge themselves from the guilt of the same : provided they might be accommodated with what the common law allows malefactors , viz. a copy of their indictment , but this could not be obtained . and tho' the said clergy have thought fit to print the charge in general , without any proof , we think our selves obliged to vindicate our profession , by freely declaring ( as now we do , without any mental reservation ) our sincere belief of the very things they most unjustly charge us with denying . i. concerning god. because we declare , that god is a god nigh at hand , and that he is , according to his promise , become the teacher of his people by his spirit , in these latter days ; and that true believers are the temples for him to walk and dwell in , as the apostle teacheth ; and experiencing something of the accomplishment of this great and glorious truth amongst us , and having therefore pressed people earnestly to the knowledge and injoyment thereof , as the blessing and glory of the latter days ; we have been ignorantly , or maliciously represented and treated as hereticks and blasphemers , as if we owned no god in heaven above the stars , and confined the holy one of israel to our beings : whereas we believe him to be the eternal , incomprehensible , almighty , all wise , and omnipresent god , creator and upholder of all things , and that he fills heaven and earth , and the heaven of heavens cannot contain him ; yet he saith by the prophet isaiah , to that man will i have regard that is poor , and of a contrite spirit , and which trembles at my word . so that for professing that which is the very marrow of the christian religion , viz. emanuel , god with us , we are represented blasphemers against that god ; with whom we leave our innocent and suffering cause . isaiah . . . . . . . , . cor. . . rev. . . ii. concerning jesus christ . because we believe , that the word which was made flesh , and dwelt amongst men , and was , and is the only begotten of the father , full of grace and truth ; his beloved son in whom he is well pleased , and whom we ought to hear in all things ; who tasted death for every man , and died for sin , that we might die to sin ; is the great light of the world , and full of grace and truth , and that he lighteth every man that cometh into the world , and giveth them grace for grace , and light for light , and that no man can know god and christ ( whom to know is life eternal ) and themselves in order to true conviction and conversion , without receiving and obeying this holy light , and being taught by the divine grace ; and that without it , no remission , no justification , no salvation ( as the scripture plentifully testifies ) can be obtained . and because we therefore press the necessity of peoples receiving the inward and spiritual appearance of this divine word , in order to a right and beneficial application of whatsoever he did for man , with respect to his life , miracles , death , sufferings , resurrection , ascension , and mediation ; our adversaries would have us to deny any christ without us . first , as to his divinity , because they make us to confine him too within us . secondly , as to his humanity , or manhood , because as he was the son of abraham , david , and mary , according to the flesh , he can't be in us , and therefore we are hereticks and blasphemers : whereas we believe him , according to scripture , to be the son of abraham , david , and mary after the flesh , and also god over all , blessed for ever . so that he that is within us , is also without us , even the same that laid down his precious life for us , rise again from the dead , and ever liveth to make intercession for us , being the blessed and alone mediator betwixt god and man , and him by whom god will finally judge the world , both quick and dead : all which we as sincerely and stedfastly believe , as any other society of people , whatever may be ignorantly , or maliciously insinuated to the contrary , either by our declared enemies , or mistaken neighbours . deut. . . mi● . . . john . , , . rev. . . iii. concerning the holy scriptures . because we assert the holy spirit to be the first great and general rule and guide of true christians , as that by which god is worshipped , sin detected , conscience convicted , duty manifested , scripture unfolded and explained , and consequently the rule for understanding the scriptures themselves ( since by it they were at first given forth ) from hence our adversaries are pleased to make us blasphemers of the holy scriptures , undervaluing their authority , preferring our own books before them , with more to that purpose : whereas we , in truth and sincerity , believe them to be of divine authority , given by the inspiration of god , thro' holy men ; they speaking or writing them as they were moved by the holy ghost : that they are a declaration of those things most surely believed by the primitive christians , and that as they contain the mind and will of god , and are his commands to us ; so they , in that respect , are his declaratory words ; and therefore are obligatory on us , and are profitable for doctrine , reproof , correction , and instruction in righteousness , that the man of god may be perfect , and throughly furnished to every good work. nay , after all , so unjust is the charge , and so remote from our belief concerning the holy scriptures , that we both love , honour and prefer them before all books in the world ; ever choosing to express our belief of the christian faith and doctrine , in the terms thereof , and rejecting all principles or doctrines whatsoever , that are repugnant thereunto . nevertheless we are well persuaded , that notwithstanding there is such an excellency in the holy scriptures , as we have above declared , yet the unstable and unlearned in christ's school too often wrest them to their own destruction . and upon our re 〈…〉 r carnal constructions of the 〈…〉 made undervaluers of 〈…〉 but certain it is , that as the lord hath been pleased to give us the experience of the fulfilling of them in measure , so it is altogether contrary to our faith and practice , to put any manner of slight or contempt upon them , much more of being guilty , of what maliciously is suggested against us ; since no society of profest christians in the world , can have a more reverend and honourable esteem for them than we have , john . . and . . rom. . . luke . , . tim. . , . pet. . . iv. concerning magistracy . because we have not actively complied with divers statutes , which have been made to force an uniformity to what we had no faith in , but the testimony of our conscience against ; and because for conscience sake , we could not give those marks of honour and respect , which were and are the usual practice of those that seek honour one of another , and not that honour which comes from god only ( but measure and weigh honour and respect in a false ballance , and deceitful measure , on which neither magistrate , ruler , nor people can depend ) we say , because we could not , for conscience sake , give flattering titles , &c. we have been render'd as despisers and contemners of magistracy : whereas our principles , often repeated upon the many revolutions that have happened , do evidently manifest the contrary , as well as our peaceable behaviour from the beginning , under all the various forms of government , hath been an undeniable plea in our favour , when those that also have professed the same principles of non-resistance , and passive-obedience , have quitted their principles , and yet quarrel with us upon a supposition that we will , in time , write after their copy ; which , as nothing is more contrary to our principles , faith and doctrine , so nothing can be more contrary to our constant practice . for we not only really believe magistracy to be an ordinance of god , but esteem it an extraordinary blessing , where it is a praise to them that do well , and a terror to evil-doers : which that it may be so in this our native land , is the fervent desire of our souls , that the blessing and peace of god may be continued thereupon , job . . john . . acts . . pet. . , . v. concerning baptism . because we do not find in any place in the four evangelists , that jesus christ instituted baptism by water , to come in the room of circumcision , or to be the baptism proper to his kingdom , which stands in righteousness , peace and joy in the holy ghost ; we are therefore render'd as contemners of christ's baptism : whereas the baptism of jesus christ , of which he was lord and administrator , according to the nature of his office and kingdom , is even by john the baptist declared to be that of fire ( not water ) and of the holy ghost , of which water-baptism was but the forerunner , and is by them that now practice it , called but the outward and visible sign of the inward and spiritual grace ; and therefore not the grace it self ; which grace , as the apostle saith , is sufficient for us , and which we believe , profess , and experience to be come by jesus christ , who is the substance of all signs and shadows to true believers ; he being no more a jew or christian that is one outwardly , by the cutting or washing of the flesh . but he is a jew and christian who is one inwardly , and circumcision and baptism is of the heart , in the spirit , and not in the letter , whose praise is therefore not of men , but of god : and this baptism christ preferred and recommended at his farewel to his disciples : in reverence and duty to whom , to say nothing of the abuse of water-baptism , we decline the use thereof , mark . . luke . . john . . acts . . rom. . . rom. . , . cor. . . cor. . . vi. concerning breaking bread , &c. because we also disuse the outward ceremony of breaking bread , and drinking wine , which is commonly called the lord's supper , we are therefore render'd deniers and contemners of the lord's-supper ; whereas the inward and spiritual grace thereby signified , viz. that bread which came down from heaven , which christ prefers to the bread the fathers eat in the wilderness ( which did not keep them from death ) and that cup which he promised to drink a-new with his disciples in his father's kingdom , we not only believe , but reverently partake of , to our unspeakable comfort , which is rightly and truly the communion of the body and blood of our lord jesus christ , who said , except you eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood , you have no life in you , john . , . for 't is the spirit that quickens , the flesh profits nothing : it was also his promise to all those that would open at his knocks , viz. that he would come in , and sup with them ; which inward and spiritual coming , we have both known and testified to ; feeling the blessed effects thereof in our souls , and knowing the outward breaking of bread and drinking of wine in the way commonly practised , is no more than it is declared to be , viz. an outward and visible sign : why then should any contend about it , and render us unchristian , for disusing what themselves allow to be but an outward and visible sign ? and that none can reasonably believe to be an essential part of religion , as is the bread from heaven ; of which the outward is , at best , but a signification : but the wine that christ promised to drink with his disciples anew , is such an essential , that without it none have , nor can have eternal life , mat. . . mark . . john . , , , , . rev. . . vii . concerning the light of christ . because we assert the sufficiency of the light within , it being the light of christ , viz. that if men live up to the teaching thereof , in all manner of faithfulness and obedience , they shall not abide in darkness , but have the light of life and salvation , and the blood of christ shall cleanse them from all sin : our adversaries from thence conceive , that we undervalue the rule of holy scriptures , and all outward means , as having no need thereof , since we have such a means and rule within us , and that this leaves us without any certain rule , and exposeth us to many blasphemies , &c. whereas the light within ( or christ by his light inwardly teaching ) was never taught by us in opposition to , or contempt of any outward means that god , in his wisdom and providence , affords us for our edification and comfort , no more than did that blessed apostle , who said , you need not that any man teach you , but as the same anointing teacheth you all things , and is truth , and is no lye , john . . john . , . john . , . viii . concerning the father , the word , and the spirit . because we have been very cautious in expressing our faith concerning that great mystery , especially in such school terms , and philosophical distinctions as are unscriptural , if not unsound , ( the tendency whereof hath been to raise frivolous controversies and animosities amongst men ) we have by those that desire to lessen our christian reputation , been represented as deniers of the trinity at large : whereas we ever believed , and as constantly maintained the truth of that blessed ( holy scripture ) three , that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the spirit , and that these three are one ; the which , we both sincerely and reverently believe , according to john . . and this is sufficient for us to believe and know , and hath a tendency to edification and holiness , when the contrary centers only in imaginations , and strife , and persecution , where it runs high , and to parties , as may be read in bloody characters in the ecclesiastical histories . ix . concerning works . because we make evangelical obedience a condition to salvation , and works by the spirit wrought in us , to be an evidence of faith , and holiness of life , to be both necessary and rewardable ; it hath been insinuated against us , as if we hoped to be saved by our own works , and so make them the meritorious cause of our salvation , and consequently popish . whereas we know , that it is not by works of righteousness that we can do , but by his own free grace is he pleased to accept of us through faith in , and obedience to his blessed son the lord jesus christ , heb. . . and . . x. of christ's being our example . because in some cases we have said , the lord jesus was our great example , and that his obedience to his father doth not excuse ours ; but as by keeping his commandments , he abode in his father's love , so must we follow his example of obedience , to abide in his love : some have been so ignorant ( or that which is worse ) as to venture to say for us , or in our name , that we believe our lord jesus christ was in all things , but an example . whereas we confess him to be so much more than an example , that we believe him to be our most acceptable sacrifice to god his father , who for his sake will look upon fallen man that hath justly merited the wrath of god , upon his return by repentance , faith and obedience , as if he had never sinned at all , john . . rom. . . and . , . heb. . . xi . concerning freedom from sin. because we have urged the necessity of a perfect freedom from sin , and a thorough sanctification in body , soul and spirit , whilst on this side the grave , by the operation of the holy and perfect spirit of our lord jesus christ , according to the testimony of holy scripture , we are made so presumptious , as to assert the fulness of all perfection and happiness to be attainable in this life : whereas we are not only sensible of those humane infirmities that attend us , whilst clogged with flesh and blood ; but know that here we can only know in part , and see in part : the perfection of wisdom , glory and happiness , being reserved for another , and better world , john . , . heb. . , . heb. . xii . concerning worship to god. because we say with the apostle , that men ought to pray , preach , sing , &c. with the spirit , and that without the preparation and assistance of it , no man can rightly worship god. ( all worship without it being formal , and carnal ) from hence ignorance or envy suggests against us , that if god will not compel us by his spirit , he must go without his worship : whereas nothing can be more absurd , since without it no man can truly call jesus lord : besides , it is our duty to wait upon him who hath promised , not to compel , but fill them with renewings of strength , that so wait upon him , by which they are made capable to worship him acceptably , be it in prayer , preaching , or praising of god : and how warrantable our practice herein is from holy scripture , see psal . . . . . . . . , . hosea , . . xiii . of god and christ's being in man. because we say as doth the holy scriptures , that god is light , and that christ is light , and that god is in christ , and that christ by his light , lighteth every man that cometh into the world , and dwelleth in them , and with them that obey him , in his inward and spiritual manifestations : people have been told by our adversaries , that we believe every man has whole god , and whole christ in him , and consequently so many gods , and christs , as men : whereas we assert nothing herein , but in the language of the holy ghost in the scriptures of truth ; and mean , no more by it , than that as god is in christ , so christ by his spirit and light , dwelleth in the hearts of his people , to comfort and consolate them , as he doth in wicked men , to reprove and condemn them , as well as to call , enlighten and instruct them ; that out of that state of condemnation they may come , and by believing in him , may experience their hearts cured of the maladies sin hath brought upon them , in order to compleat salvation from sin here , and from wrath to come hereafter , cor. . . joh. . . xiv . of christ's coming both in flesh and spirit . because the tendency ( generally speaking ) of our ministry is to press people to the inward and spiritual appearance of christ , by his spirit and grace in their hearts , to give them a true sight and sence of and sorrow for sin , to amendment of life , and practice of holiness : and because we have often opposed that doctrine of being actually justified by the merits of christ , whilst actual sinners against god , by living in the pollutions of this wicked world : we are by our adversaries render'd such , as either deny , or undervalue the coming of christ without us , and the force and efficacy of his death and sufferings , as a propitiation for the sins of the whole world. whereas we do , and hope we ever shall ( as we always did ) confess to the glory of god the father , and the honour of his dear and beloved son , that he , to wit , jesus christ , took our nature upon him , was like us in all things , sin excepted : that he was born of the virgin mary , went about amongst men doing good , and working many miracles : that he was betrayed by judas into the hands of the chief priests , &c. that he suffered death under pontius pilate , the roman governour , being crucified between two thieves , and was buried in the sepulchre of joseph of arimathea : rose again the third day from the dead , and ascended into heaven , and sits at god's right hand , in the power and majesty of his father ; and that by him god the father will one day judge the whole world , both of quick and dead , according to their works . but because we so believe , must we not believe that christ said , he that dwelleth with you shall be in you ? john . i in them , and they in me , &c. chap. . when it pleased god to reveal his son in me , gal. . the mystery hid from ages , is christ in the gentiles the hope of glory , col. . unless christ be in you , you are reprobates , cor. . or must we be industriously represented deniers of christ's coming in the flesh , and the holy ends of it , in all the parts and branches of his doing and suffering , because we believe and press the necessity of receiving and obeying his inward and spiritual appearance and manifestation of himself , through his light , grace and spirit in the hearts and consciences of men and women , to reprove , convict , convert and change them ? this we esteem hard and unrighteous measure ; nor would our warm and sharp adversaries be so dealt with by others : but to do as they would be done to , is too often no part of their practice . yet we are very ready to declare to the whole world , that we cannot think men and women can be saved by their belief of the one without the sense and experience of the other ; and that is what we oppose , and not his blessed manifestation in the flesh . we say that he then overcame our common enemy , foiled him in the open field , and in our nature triumphed over him that had overcome and triumphed over it in our fore-father adam , and his posterity : and that as truly as christ overcame him in our nature , in his own person , so , by his divine grace being received and obeyed by us , he overcomes satan in us : that is , he detects the enemy by his light in the conscience , and enables the creature to resist him , and all his fiery darts ; and finally , so to fight the good fight of faith , as to overcome him , and lay hold on eternal life . and this is the dispensation of grace , which we declare has appeared to all , more or less ; teaching those that will receive it , to deny ungodliness and worldly lust , and to live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world ; looking for ( which none else can justly do ) the blessed hope , and glorious appearing of the great god , and our saviour jesus christ , &c. tit. . , , . and as from the teachings , experience , and motion of this grace , we minister to others , so the very drift of our ministry is to turn peoples minds to this grace in themselves , that they may all come to do , even the good and acceptable will of god , and work out their salvation with fear and trembling , and make their high and heavenly calling and election sure ; which none else can do , whatever be their profession , church and character : for such as men sow they must reap ; and his servants we are , whom we obey . regeneration we must know , or we cannot be children of god , and heirs of eternal glory : and to be born again , an other spirit and principle must prevail , to leaven , season , and govern us , [ than either the spirit of the world , or our own depraved spirits ] and this can be no other spirit than that which dwelt in christ , for unless that dwell in us , we can be none of his , rom. . . and this spirit begins in conviction , and ends in conversion and perseverance : and the one follows the other ; conversion being the consequence of conviction obey'd , and perseverance a natural fruit of conversion , and of being born of god : for such sin not , because the seed of god abides in them , john . , , . but through faithfulness , continue to the end , and obtain the promise , even everlasting life . but we do acknowledge that christ , through his holy doing and suffering , ( for being a son he learned obedience ) has obtained mercy of god his father for mankind ; and that his obedience has an influence to our salvation , in all the parts and branches of it ; since thereby he became a conqueror , and led captivity captive , and obtained gifts for men , with divers great promises , that thereby we might be partakers of the divine nature , having ( first ) escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust : in short , we do believe and confess that the active and passive obedience of christ jesus affects our salvation throughout , as well from the power and pollution of sin , as from the guilt ; he being a conqueror as well as a sacrifice , and both , through suffering : yet they that reject his divine gift , so obtained , and which he has given to them , by which to see their sin , and the sinfulness of it , and to repent and turn away from it , and do so no more ; and not wait upon god for daily strength to resist the fiery darts of the enemy , and to be comforted thro' the obedience of faith in and to this divine grace of the son of god ; such do not please god , nor truly are in a state of true christianity and salvation . woman , saith christ , to the samaritan , at the well , hadst thou known the gift of god , and who it is that speaketh to thee , &c. people know not christ , and god , whom to know is life eternal , john . because they are ignorant of the gift of god , john . . viz. a measure of the spirit of god that is given to every one to profit with , cor. . . which reveals christ and god to the soul. flesh and blood cannot do it ; oxford and cambridge cannot do it ; tongues and philosophy cannot do it : for they that by wisdom knew not god , had these things for their wisdom . they were strong , deep and accurate in them ; but alas , they were clouded , shut up , and set farther off from the inward and saving knowledge of god , because they sought for it in them , and thought to find god there . but the key of david is another thing , which shuts and no man opens ; and opens , and no man shuts : and this key have all they that receive the gift of god into their hearts , which opens to them , the knowledge of god and themselves , and gives them quite another sight , taste , and judgment of things , than their meer education or traditional knowledge afforded them . this is the beginning of the new creation of god , and thus it is we come to be new creatures : and we are bound to declare there is no other way , besides this , by which people can come into christ , or to be true christians , or receive the advantage that came by the death and sufferings of the lord jesus christ . wherefore we say , and upon good authorities , even that of our own experience , and that of the scriptures of truth , christ will prove no saving sacrifice for them that refuse him for their example . they that reject the gift , deny the giver , instead of denying themselves daily for the giver's sake . o that people were wise , that they would consider their latter end , and the things that make for the peace thereof ! why should they perish in a vain hope of life , while death reigns ? of living with god , who live not to him , nor walk with him ? awake thou that sleepeth in thy sin , or , at best , in thy self-righteousness , and christ shall give thee life ! for he is the lord from heaven , the quickning spirit , that quickens us by his spirit , if we do not resist it , and quench it by our disobedience ; but receive , love and obey it , in all the holy leadings and teachings of it , rom. . . to which holy spirit we commend the reader , that he may the better see where he is , and also come to the true belief and advantage of the doings and sufferings of our dear and blessed lord and saviour jesus christ , who saves from the power and pollution , as well as guilt of sin , all those that hear his knocks , and opens the door of their hearts to him , that he may come in and work a real and thorough reformation in , and for them : and so the benefit , virtue , and efficacy of his doings and sufferings without us , will come to be livingly applied and felt , and fellowship with christ in his death and sufferings known , according to the doctrine of the apostle ; which , those that live in that which made him suffer , know not , though they profess to be saved by his death and sufferings . much more might be said as to this matter ; but to conclude this subject , we wonder not that we should be mistaken , misconstrued and mis-represented , in what we believe in order to salvation , since our betters have been so treated in the primitive times ; nor indeed is it only about doctrines or principles , for our practice in worship and discipline have had the same success : but this is what we earnestly desire , that however bold people are pleased to make with us , they would not deceive themselves in the great things of their own salvation : that while they would seem to own all to christ , they are not found disowned of christ in the last day . read the th of matthew ; it is he that hears christ , the great word of god , and does what he enjoyns , what he commands , and by his blessed example , recommends , that is a wise builder , that has founded his house well , and built with good materials , and whose house will stand the last shake and judgment . for which cause we are often plain , close and earnest with people to consider , that christ came not to save them in , but from their sins ; and that they that think to discharge and release themselves of his yoke and burden , his cross and example ( and secure themselves , by complementing christ with his having done all for them , while he has wrought little or nothing in them , nor they parted with any thing for the love of him ) will finally awake in a dreadful surprise , at the sound of the last trumpet , and that irrevokable sentence : depart from me , ye workers of iniquity , i know you not . which terrible end , may all timely avoid , by hearkening to wisdom's voice , and turning at her reproof , that she may lead them in the ways of righteousness , and in the midst of the paths of judgment , that their souls may come to inherit substance ; even durable riches and righteousness in the kingdom of the father , world without end . xv. of scripture , satisfaction , and justification . because we , with many others , have denied that ridged satisfaction which some hold , as that god could not possibly save men any other way than by condemning and punishing his innocent son unto death , with the utmost justice and severity ; and that his wrath or justice is now so fully satisfied for sin past , present , and to come , as that he will now look upon man holy for christ's sake , tho' unholy in himself , and as if he was in christ , tho' not a new creature . we are made deniers of christ's satisfaction at large . whereas we sincerely believe our lord jesus christ was that most acceptable sacrifice to god for the sin of mankind , that whatsoever sin is forgiven , is not forgiven only because of repentance , but for his sake that dyed , and offered him self through the eternal spirit , an offering once for all . the doctrine of satisfaction and justification truly understood are placed in so strict an union , that the one is a necessary consequence of the other , and what we say of them , is what agrees with the suffrage of scripture , and for the most part in the terms of it ; always believing that in points where there arises any difficulty , be it from the obscurity of expression , mistranslation , or the dust raised by the heats of partial writers , or nice criticks it is ever best to keep close to the text and maintain charity in the rest . we shall therefore first speak negatively , what we do not own , ( which perhaps hath given occasion to those who have been more hasty than wise to judge us defective in our belief of the efficacy of the death and sufferings of christ to justification : ) as , first , we cannot believe that christ is the cause , but the effect of god's love , according to the testimony of the beloved disciple john , chap. . god hath so loved the world , that he hath given his only begotten son into the world , that whosoever believeth on him should not perish , but have everlasting life . secondly , we cannot say , god could not have taken another way to have saved sinners , than by the death and sufferings of his son , to satisfie his justice , or that christ's death and sufferings were a strict and rigid satisfaction for that eternal death and misery due to man for sin and transgression : for such a notion were to make god's mercy little concerned in man's salvation ; and indeed , we are at too great a distance from his infinite wisdom and power , to judge of the liberty or necessity of his actings . thirdly , we cannot say jesus christ was the greatest sinner in the world ( because he bore our sins on the cross , or because he was made sin for us , who never knew any sin ) an expression of great levity and unsoundness , yet often said by great preachers and professors of religion . fourthly , we cannot believe that christ's death and sufferings so satisfies god , or justifies men , as that they are thereby accepted of god. they are , indeed thereby put into a state capable of being accepted of god , and through the obedience of faith , and sanctification of the spirit , are in a state of acceptance : for we can never think a man justified before god , while self-condemned ; or that any man can be in christ , who is not a new creature , or that god looks upon men otherwise than they are . we think it a state of presumption , and not of salvation , to call jesus , lord , and not by the work of the holy ghost , master , and he not master of our affections , saviour , and not saved by him from sin , redeemer , and yet not redeemed by him from passion , pride , covetousness , wantonness , vanity , honours , vain friendships , and glory of this world : which whoever do , will deceive themselves ; for god will not be mocked ; such as men sow , such must they reap . and tho' christ did die for us , yet we must , by the assistance of his grace , work out our salvation with fear and trembling : as he died for sin , so we must die to sin , or we cannot be said to be saved by the death and sufferings of christ , or throughly justified and accepted with god. but now possitively , what we own , as to justification comes next . we do believe , that jesus christ was our holy sacrifice , and attonement , and propitiation ; that he bore our iniquities , and that by his stripes we were healed of the wounds adam gave us in his fall ; and that god is just in forgiving true penitents , upon the credit of that holy offering christ made of himself to god for us ; and that what he did and suffer'd , satisfied and pleased god , it being for the take of fallen man that had displeased him : and that by the offering up of himself once for all , through the eternal spirit , he hath for ever perfected those ( in all times ) that are sanctified , who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit , rom. . . mark that . in short , justification consists of two parts , or hath a two-fold consideration , viz. justification from the guilt of sin , and justification from the power and pollution of sin , and in this sense justification gives man a full and clear acceptance before god. for want of this latter part , it is that so many souls religiously inclin'd , are often under doubts , scruples and dispondencies , notwithstanding all that their teachers tell them of the extent and efficacy of the first part of justification . and it is too general an unhappiness among the professors of christianity , that they are apt to cloke their own active and passive disobedience , with the active and passive obedience of christ . the first part of justification , we do reverently and humbly acknowledge is , only for the sake of the death and sufferings of christ ; nothing we can do , though by the operation of the holy spirit , being able to cancel old debts , or wipe out old scores : it is the power and efficacy of that propitiatory offering , upon faith and repentance , that justifies us from the sins that are past , and it is the power of christ's spirit in our hearts that purifies and makes us acceptable before god. for till the heart of man is turned from sin , god will never accept of it : he reproves , rebukes , and condems those that entertain sin there , and therefore such cannot be said to be in a justified state ; condemnation and justification being contraries : so that they that hold themselves in a justified state , by the active and passive obedience of christ , while they are not actively and passively obedient to the spirit of christ jesus , are under a strong and dangerous delusion , and for crying out against this sin-pleasing imagination , not to say doctrine , we are staged and reproached , as deniers and despisers of the death and sufferings of our lord jesus christ . but be it known to such , they add to christ's sufferings , and crucifie to themselves afresh the son of god , and trample the blood of the covenant under their feet , that walk unholily under a profession of justification ; for god will not acquit the guilty , nor justifie the disobedient and unfaithful . such deceive themselves , and at the great and final judgment their sentence will not be , come ye blessed , because it cannot be said to them , well done good and faithful , for they cannot be so esteemed that live and die in a reproveable and condemnable state ; but , go ye cursed , &c. wherefore , oh reader ! rest not thy self wholly satisfied with what christ has done for thee in his blessed person without thee , but press to know his power and kingdom within thee , that the strong man , that has too long kept thy house , may be bound , and his goods spoiled ; his works destroyed , and sin ended ; according to john . . for which end , says that beloved disciple , christ was manifested , that all things may become new ; new heavens , and new earth , in which righteousness dwells . thus thou wilt come to glorifie god in thy body , and in thy spirit , which are his ; and live to him , and not to thy self . thy love , joy , worship , and obedience ; thy life , conversation , and practice ; thy study , mediation , and devotion , will be spiritual : for the father and the son will make their abode with thee , and christ will manifest himself to thee ; for the secrets of the lord are with them that fear him : and an holy unction or anointing have all those , which leads them into all truth , and they need not the teachings of men : they are better taught , being instructed by the divine oracle ; no bare hear-say , or traditional christians , but fresh and living witnesses : those that have seen with their own eyes , and heard with their own ears , and have handled with their own hands the word of life , in the divers operations of it , to their souls salvation . in this they meet , in this they preach , and in this they pray and praise . behold the new covenant fulfilled , the church and worship of christ , the great anointed of god , and the great anointing of god , in his holy , high priesthood and offices in his church . xvi . concerning the resurrection . because from the authority of holy scripture , as well as right reason , we deny the resurrection of the same gross and corruptible body , and are neither over inquisitive , nor critical about what bodies we shall have at the resurrection , leaving it to the lord , to give us such bodies as he pleases ( and with that we are well pleased and satisfied , and wish all others were so too . ) from hence we are made not only deniers of the resurrection of any body at all , however spiritual , or glorified , but eternal rewards too . whereas , if it were true , as it is notoriously false , we were , indeed , of all men most miserable : but blessed be god , it is so far from being true , that we most stedfastly believe , that as our lord jesus christ was raised from the dead , by the power of the father , and was the first fruits of the resurrection ; so every man in his own order shall arise , they that have done well to the resurrection of eternal life , but they that have done evil to everlasting condemnation . and because we are a people , whose education hath not afforded us an accuracy of language , some passages may perhaps have been mis-express'd , or improperly worded ; as for instance , one of us hath denied in his book , the soul to be finite , by which he plainly meant mortal , or final ; to die , or have an end , which finis signifies , from whence finite comes , our uncharitable opposers have concluded , we hold the soul to be infinite , and consequently god : whereas the words before and after , as well as the nature of the things , shews plainly , he only meant that it is eternal , and so not finite ; that is , not terminable , or that which shall come to an end . and also , because we have not declared our selves about matters of faith , in the many and critical words that man's wisdom teacheth , but in the words which the holy ghost teacheth , we have been esteemed either ignorant or equivocal and unsound : whereas it is really matter of conscience to us , to deliver our belief in such words as the holy spirit in scripture teacheth ; and if we add more for illustration , it is from an experience of the work of the same spirit in our selves , which seems to us the truest way of expounding scripture , in what concerns saving knowledge . xvii . concerning separation , &c. because we are separated from the publick communion and worship , it is too generally concluded , that we deny the doctrines received by the church , and consequently introduce a new religion : whereas we differ least , where we are thought to differ most : for setting aside some school terms , we hold the substance of those doctrines believed by the church of england , as to god , christ , spirit , scripture , repentance , sanctification , remission of sin , holy living , and the resurrection of the just and unjust to eternal rewards and punishments . but that wherein we differ most , is about worship and conversation , and the inward qualification of the soul by the work of god's spirit thereon , in pursuance of these good and generally received doctrines . for 't is the spirit of god only convinces and converts the soul , and makes those that were dead in trespasses and sins , and in the lusts , pleasures , and fashions of this world , alive to god ; that is , sensible of his mind and will , and of their duty to do them ; and brings to know god , and his attributes , by the power of them upon their own souls ; and leads to worship god rightly , which is in his spirit , and in truth , with hearts sanctified by the truth , which is a living and acceptable worship , and stands in power , not formality , nor in the traditions , and prescriptions of men , in synods and convocations , but in the holy spirit . first , in shewing us our real wants ; and then in helping our infirmities with sighs and groans , and sometimes words , to pray for a suitable supply for which we in our meetings wait upon god , to quicken and prepare us , that we may worship him acceptably and profitably , for they go together . now because we are satisfied that all worship to god , and exhortations to men , as praying , praising , and preaching , and every other religious duty ought to be spiritually performed ; and finding so little of it among professors of christianity ; the spirit of god having not that rule and guidance of them , in their lives and worship , as it ought to have ; and seeing them too generally satisfied with a ministry and worship of man's making , being not qualified , nor led by god's spirit thereunto ; we cannot find that comfort and edification our souls crave and want under so cold a ministry and worship . and for this cause , and no presumptious contempt , or selfish separation , or worldly interests are we , and stand we at this day , a separate people from the publick communion ; and in this we can comfortably appeal and recommend our selves to god , the great and last judge of the acts and deeds of the sons of men. lastly . because at the time of our friends first appearing in this age , there were a sect of people , newly sprang up , and truly called ranters , that were the reverss to the quakers ( for they feared and quaked at nothing , but made a mock at fearing of god , and at sin , and at hell ) who pretended that love made fear needless , and that nothing was sin , but to them that thought it so ; and that none should be damned at last , whose extravagant practices exactly corresponded with their evil principles : from hence , some , ignorantly , and too many maliciously involved us and ours with them ; and many of their exorbitances were thereby placed to our account , tho' without the least reason , truth , or justice . and because some that were convinced of god's truth , afterwards dishonoured their profession , thro' their unfaithfulness to it ; and that some , out of weakness perhaps , may have improperly worded what they intended to say , the whole body of our friends have been made criminal , and the religion or principles we profess , have been condemned , and represented to the world as heresie and blasphemy ; an usage so unjust , that doutless , according to lex tallionis , our adversaries would think it intolerable to be so treated by us . but as we desire not to render evil for evil , our great bishop having taught us another lesson , and better practices , so we desire god almighty to forgive our causless enemies , for his son's sake , as we most freely and heartily forgive them : believing some may be zealously affected for their educational form of religion , and as zealous against us for our separation , and we are the more inclined to judge so , because many of us were once in the same way , and had such thoughts of those that were gone before us . but it hath pleas'd the father of mercies , to do by many of us , as he did by saul , that zealous , though mistaken persecutor of the sincere followers of jesus christ , acts . , , , . for as we heard an unusual inward but powerful voice , so we also had a more inward clear and distinguishing sight , by the illumination of that light which was more than natural , and shined into our dark and sinful hearts , cor. . , . letting us see them , as they really were in god's sight , which naturally affected us with deep sorrow , and true humiliation ; making us willing to be any thing he would have us be , provided we might have some sense of his love and favour towards us . and blessed be his holy and excellent name , we can , without vanity , say ( generally speaking ) we were not disobedient to that heavenly vision ( acts . . ) we had of him , our selves , the world , and that profession of religion , where we had our education , and since by that sight god gave us , we saw he was pure and holy , and that without holiness none ever could , or can see him to their joy , and that we were unfit to approach his holy altar ; yea , the whole world lay in wickedness ; and that profession of religion , where we had our education , was so far from having the power of godliness , that for the most part it wanted the right form ; from such therefore , we had a divine authority , to turn away , tim. . . which we did , not in a vaunting mind , but with great sorrow ; wanting to know where the great shepherd of the sheep sed his flock , can. . . for we desired to be not of those that turned aside from the footsteps of the flocks of the companions . nor was it affectation to popularity , singularity , or novelty , that induc'd us to a separation ; but a fervent desire to know the lord , and the work of his translating power upon our souls , being in earnest for heaven , tho' for it we lost all our earthly enjoyments , heb. . , , . in this solitary and seeking state , it pleased the lord to meet with us , and gather us into families , or religious societies , according to psalm . . and tho' it hath been a dear separation to us , considering it cost us the loss , at least , of all things , and the great sufferings and afflictions that have attended us in this despised way , which men have call'd heresie , yet the lord hath blessed us in it , with the enjoyment of his blessed presence , to our unspeakable joy and comfort . to conclude , as it hath pleased the lord to bless us , in the way we have hitherto been helpt to walk in , with that great blessing which ushered in the birth of our blessed lord into the world , viz. glory to god , peace on earth , and good will to men : so we earnestly desire the same upon all our neighbours : for though we may not be all of one mind in some doctrinal parts of religion , we must the word of god to all the elect number with a few words in a deep lamentation over the seed of life, to its tender father concerning them that have transgressed in israel. west, thomas, of hertford. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the word of god to all the elect number with a few words in a deep lamentation over the seed of life, to its tender father concerning them that have transgressed in israel. west, thomas, of hertford. , [ ] p. s.n., [london : ?] caption title. signed at end: thomas west. hartford the th day of the second month. . imprint from wing. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create 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available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . repentance -- early works to . salvation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the word of god to all the elect number with a few words in a deep lamentation over the seed of life , to its tender father concerning them that have transgressed in israel . dear blessed precious lambs and babes , ye children of the most high god , holy innocent and undefiled , i feel a remnant a very small remnant , that are but few in number , with whom my life dwells in pure unity never to be separated , that god almighty hath gathered and is gathering in this day of his mighty power from amongst all people , nations , kindreds , countreys tongues and languages , upon the face of the whole earth , who shall be one of a family and two of a tribe , which is but very few in number , even you shall shine , as the lights of heaven , glorious as the sun , cleer as the moon , glittering and sparkling as the stars . yea , the very brightness of your pure light , and beauty of your glory shall shine from corner to corner , and from end to end of all the world , that so all nations may see , and hear yea dread tremble and fear . but you must and shall come through many and great tribulations and be refined even as the pure gold , that is seven times tried in the fire , and must have your garments died in the blood of the lamb , and be clothed in fine linning clean and white , mark that , it must be clean and white there must be no filthyness neither any defilement : not one spot nor blemish , for if there be while that remaineth , mark while any spot remaineth thou maiest not be suffered to dwell with the lamb and to follow him whethersoever he goeth , who is of more purer eyes then to behold iniquity , so the pure virgin state every perticular must witness before the heir of life can be born to whom all power belongs in heaven and in earth and power sufficient to withstand the power of the wicked one in all his temptations can never be received till he the heir of life is born up in dominion over all , and hath the government upon his shoulders , and now may not the cry of many be who hath been long convinced even as the cry of some of the disciples was when the lord said , he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me and i in him as the living father hath sent me , and i live by the father even so he that eateth me shall live by me , shall live by me , this is that bread that came dovvn from heaven , not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead , he that eateth this bread shall live for ever . did they not then cry out this is an hard saying who can abide the hearing of it , and did not many of his disciples from that very time go back and forsake him , and walked no more with him , then said jesus to the twelve , will yee also go away then simon peter answered him lord to whom shall we go , thou hast the words of eternal life , and vve believe and are sure that thou art christ the son of the living god. my dear friends , i do not write thus to you onely as it is the scriptures language neither because you know it not already but even as the lord hath given it me in his own eternal word of life and power , therefore every one search your own hearts try your selves even all the secret motions of your minds and all your deep thoughts , and see with the light of christ in you whether or no your hearts are upright , and approved of in the sight of the righteous god. who searcheth secretly all your hearts and tryes your reins whose name is the lord of host the almighty and wonderful counseller and conquerer very dreadful and terrible to all his enemies before whom , and in whose presence ye are all naked and bare , to whom you must all give up your accompts whether just or unjust and the time is near at hand : therefore my dear friends , see that every one of you lay true judgement to the line , and righteousness to the plummet , and all judge your selves least you be judged and try with the pure holy light in your own consciences whether or nay , ye are of that number as is before mentioned for verily and in gods name i am made bold in his everlasting authority and endless dominion to declare it , none other shall dwell with the lambe in the new city sion for ever more , therefore o weigh it in the deep considerations of your pure mind . for i do proclaim it in the name of the lord our god and shall be ready to seal it with my dearest blood , yee have already received the first and last and greatest messuage or dispensation that ever was is or ever shall be , therefore look not for another but always in that you have already received grow and increase , holding fast that you have and letting nothing of it go least another take your crown and to rob you of your honour , even the pure holy and undefiled light , and whosoever shall presume to declare of any other or a greater dispensation then that which hath been declared of already let him or them to you be accursed for evermore if an angel or angels from heaven for such do and will pervert the way of god , and so will strive , to lead poor simple innocent persons , people after them into their own pernissious ways quite contrary to the way of god where they shall never know peace for their immortal souls , but they who dwell in the everlasting light truly fearing his dreadfull name and evermore trembling in his pure presence at the word of his power who is god , blessed for ever more amen , even they and none but they shall sing the song of moses and the lambe for evermore , for they onely are found worthy , worthy , worthy , to sit upon the throne judging and ruling amongst the twelve tribes of israel for ever more who hath been and ever shall be taught by the lord , and have learned the pure language from his own mouth and speaks no other words then he hath taught you , even you are the pure virgins indeed who must alwaies dwell with the lamb in the presence of his grace singing praises and sounding fourth hallelujah's to him that sits upon the throne , who was slain by our sins but is now become our eternal resurrection who onely is worthy to receive of all his blessed number power and riches and wisdome and strength and honour and glory and blessing , world without end , amen . so all dear lambs dwell with the lord , that you may at all times walk with him in the deeps where you may evermore behold his glory , that so in his living presence yee may be refreshed in all times of need , even eating of the living bread when yee hunger and drinking of the pure fountain when you are athurst that so all may be wholy satisfied and none to go forth but that all may dwell within where your strength is that is able to support you now and for evermore . that so great may be your unity in the pure spirit that in unfeigned love and holy fellowship , your hears mindes souls and spirits may be lincked joined and united together in one bond in the band of peace and in the covenant of life never to be seperated from the presence of the living god nor one from another so in patience possess ye your own hearts and dwell together in the meek seed of life where in the deeps you may feel the inocent life of your dear suffering brother . a word to the transgresser o all mighty , all powerful , god of power of heaven and earth who in the majesty of thy power and strength of thine almightiness , art risen by the strength of thine arm to plead with all that are back-sliding in israel and in this cause wherein thou hast been provoked by a backsliding people , whom thou by a mighty hand and outstretched arm hast brought out of the land of darkness and from the house of bondage , who have again provoked thee : even in the wilderness and also in the good land : and now although moses and samuel should stand before thee : and although thy righteous servants should petition to thee never so much yet thou wilt not hear as concerning this thing whereby thou hast been provoked , neither wilt thou be intreated by us , but certainly thou wilt arise and plead strongly with them all because they have so grieved thy good spirit in so often provoking and sinning against thee . yet o holy righteous father thy own blessed suffering seed is very tender and i know t is very pretious in thy sight , o our dear father , and is not its inocent tender babelike cry in the meekness of thine own spirit aloud unto thee o spare dear lord , o spare thy people for blessed abraham , thy servants sake , and for the sake of the seed of thy covenant with whom and to whom all thy promises are as yea and amen for evermore , oh remember , dear lord remember and keep not thine anger for ever . oh let it be but in thy fatherly pitty a tender gentle chastisement to draw them nearer to thee then ever , that so they may have great cause to bless and honour thy great name now and for evermore amen . and as i was thus in my measure very quiet and very still innocently in peace and in joy with my maker he shewed me concerning thee o israel that some within thy borders had caused and do yet cause thee to erre , the effects of which cause will and shall bring sad tediousnesse to them in thee o israel who have so highly offended the righteous pure unchangable god ; in minding poor changable man beyond what he is or ever was or ever shall be while he is here in this bodie , i tell thee o israel that which hath been seen concerning this matter hath so highly provoked god that he will not easily be reconciled to them in thee who have thus offended , nay nay but for this offence thou must be chastized and greatly afflicted and now in this day have ye not throne down one and set up another , and is there not now a very great cause given unto us to bear in remembrance at all times the words of our blessed lord and saviour jesus christ concerning that evill slothfull servant , but if that evill slothfull servant shall say in his heart my lord delaieth his comming and shall begin to smite his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken , the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him , and in an hour that he is not ware of : oh consider this all you that have stolen a side from the deep sence and from feeling of your first love wherein there was no evill neither any guile , that so with speed you may return and receive him as in the beginning that so love unfained may spring up in your hearts and life and vertue abound in you that ye may be grafted into the true vine to receive of its pure sap and vertue before you are wholly cut off as drie and fruitless withered branches , o remember this every on that hath forgoten god , and with speed return least he arise in his mighty power and cut you asunder and appoint you your portion with hypocrites there shall be weeping and wailing gnashing of teeth , and as the daies of noah was so shall the comming of the son of man be . friends it is sealed in my heart by the eternal spirit of the lord. these be the daies he spake of , and are not many now to the great griefe of the pure spirit , marrying and given in mariage not being moved of the lord , and is not the arke of god prepared and preparing , and is there safty any where else save only in the arke and should not all make hast thither , namely into the arke of god before the flood over take you which i can assure you all , is very near o let every one that readeth understand , and is not the righteous life of noah now preaching to all while the arke of god is preparing that are making merry , namely eating and drinking marrying and giving in marriage , bulding planting and inhabiting as though the day of the lord should never over take you being out of the fear of the lord and dread and awe of his holy name , alass , alass , how many have been sporting themselves against the faithfull ministers and true messengers of god , who have often told you in tears and in deep lamentations such a day would assuredly overtake many and how faithfull have they been in laying it before you and charging it upon you to watch always , and pray continually , least you enter into temptation but oh how have you slighted them and have not many amongst you in your own immaginations judged one and condemned another whom god hath eternally sealed in the everlasting covenant of life and peace for ever more : and are you still indeed so blinde to thinke that the lords eye is not open beholding these things yes verily he taketh true and perfect notice of them all and his blessednesse is vexed there with and his good spirit is grieved and the holy seed is greatly oppressed even as a cart is pressed with sheaves , and now there is heard a deep and lamentable morunfull cry sounded in the eares of its tender father because of these things . oh my burthen , my burthen , my greife , my greife , my lamentation , my lamentation , my sorrow , my sorrow , my mourning , my mourning , yea my very soul dwells in heavinesse and i am even bowed down down down , my tears are many my sighes are very deep my groans are very heavy my travell is in the depths of sorrow , concerning thee , o thou beloved city part of whose walls are broken down yea and verily the enemie shall and will be suffered to pray upon thee because of the great iniquitie that is found amonst many in thee . oh gird on sackcloath and sit in ashes ye carlesse daughters that are therein , and morun and weep yea waile and lament that so the lord in mercy may yet return and for his own blessed name sake and the seed of his covenant have mercie upon you and show kindnesse to you before the day of your tender visitation be wholly past away . this is given fourth in the pure life of virginity and in love unfeigned that thinketh no evil wherein there is no guil , but is without fault before the throne of the lamb for ever more through a broken heart in tender loving issues streaming from the fountain of life through the deep travels of my wearried soul to the holy crying breathing seed in the living commandement of the almighty powerful god of all wisdome life and vertue that filleth heaven and earth . to be read in the fear of the lord amongst all the congregations and assemblies of the people of god called quakers . by a servant of the lord and a sufferer for the testimony of jesus thomas west . hartford the day of the second month. . the heart of new-england hardned through wickednes in answer to a book, entituled the heart of new-england rent, published by john norton appointed thereunto by the general court. the doctrine of the quakers uindicated [sic], his ignorance manifested, and his lying doctrines brought to light and judged with the word of truth, and truth cleared from his aspersions and slanders. by him that waits to see the throne of righteousness exalted above all deceit. francis howgill. howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing h ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the heart of new-england hardned through wickednes in answer to a book, entituled the heart of new-england rent, published by john norton appointed thereunto by the general court. the doctrine of the quakers uindicated [sic], his ignorance manifested, and his lying doctrines brought to light and judged with the word of truth, and truth cleared from his aspersions and slanders. by him that waits to see the throne of righteousness exalted above all deceit. francis howgill. howgill, francis, - . p. printed for thomas simmons at the bull and mouth near aldersgate, london : . a reply to: norton, john. the heart of new-england rent at the blasphemies of the present generation. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng norton, john, - . -- heart of new-england rent at the blasphemies of the present generation -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (wing h ). civilwar no the heart of new-england hardned through wickednes: in answer to a book, entituled the heart of new-england rent, published by john norton a howgill, francis c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the heart of new-england hardned through wickednes : in answer to a book , entituled the heart of new-england rent , published by john norton appointed thereunto by the general court . the doctrine of the quakers uindicated , his arguments made void , his ignorance manifested , and his lying doctrines brought to light and judged with the word of truth , and truth cleared from his aspersions and slanders . by him that waits to see the throne of righteousness exalted above all deceit . francis howgill . and the rest of the men which were not kil'd by the plagues repented not of the works of their hands , neither repented they of their murders nor sorceries nor worshippings of devils , revel. . , . london , printed for thomas simmons at the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . now , when the lord of life and glory is appearing in his power as in the days of old , and his goodness , mercy , and truth as in the years past , and the riches of his grace & salvation , which he maketh to flow forth and spring forth from the great deep ; now when he is manifesting his light from his holy habitation , & his saving health from his dwelling place , that the sons of men might be partakers thereof , and praise him who liveth for ever and ever , who is the author of eternal salvation unto them that believe ; the pit of darkness hath also opened its mouth , and out of it many unclean spirits doth arise , and foggs and mists of darkness , ignorance and error is also arisen out of it to hinder the light from shining , and to darken the air , that the son of righteousness might not be beheld , and would dam up the way that the springs of life might not refresh the city of god , and his tender plants ; that so the prince of darkness and the king of the bottomless pit might not lose his dominion , for this end hath he mustred up and is mustring up all his men of war with their several weapons , and all the engines of wickedness to resist the lamb of god , who is risen to make war in righteousness , that so the kingdom of darkness might still be established , and the subjects thereof live at ease and peace in egypt and sodom , where christ and the witnesses are flain ; i say for this end hath he sent out his men of war to resist the work of the lord , which is to destroy the devils work ; one of his champions more stout then his fellows is come out with his weapons of war , which are most of them borrowed , and not his own , and the city in which he hath encompassed himself is a refuge of lies ; but however he appears with the face of authority and subscribes himself john norton teacher of the church of christ at boston in new england , who was appointed thereunto by the order of the general court ; his book he calls the heart of new england rent at the blasphemies of the present generation , or a brief tract concerning the doctrine of the quakers , shewing the destructive nature thereof to religion , churches and state . now whether john norton was appointed of the general court to be minister of boston , or he was appointed by the general court to tell lies , how the heart of new england is rent , whether he intends , should be believed , the reader may judge ; for his words may be understood of both : however john norton hath manifested his master , that it was not christ who appointed him to be minister at boston , but the general court that appointed him ; neither was it christ nor his spirit that set him to work to publish lies to the world , that the heart of new england was rent , but the general court ; neither was it christ nor the general assembly that ordered him to write this book , which he calls a tract concerning the doctrine of the quakers , but the general court they have ordered thee to tell lies , and thou hast received thy commission and acts it , and shewes it to the world , and the sign thereof is by the appointment of the general court : before we go any further , men of understanding will judge whose minister , whose souldier , whose warrier john norton is , and at whose appointment and commandment he ministers and wars , and hath cleared himself to be no souldier of christ , no minister of christ , but appointed to minister and to war at the appointment of the general court ; and so what will be brought forth by him in his tract as he calls it afterwards , as to minister grace to the hearers and readers , the reader may judge , seeing that he is a minister by the will of man , and his work is appointed by the general court ; and doth john norton believe that people will receive his testimony as that the heart of new england is broken and rent , when as the blood-thirsty cruelty and barbarous actions and inhumane acts of cruelty , and the noisome smell , and a bad example have you given to the world , and the laws and appointments and orders of that general court of boston and new england stinkes in the nostrils of all sober people , which is sounded through the world , and your state is as it was with israel when blindness hapened unto them through their unbelief , the effect of it manifested their apostacy , the judges then judged for rewards , the priests preached for hire and prophets devived for mony , and the people loved to have it so in their unbelief , and then ●id the rulers grind the faces of the poor , and chop them in pieces as flesh for the caldron , even as you have done , banished some from their habitations , some from their wives and children , and some you have seized upon their lands , taken away their goods by the appointment and order of your courts by which thou art made a minister , and appointed to tell these lyes , and to utter forth deceit to cover your wickedness , and to strengthen the devils kingdom and the subjects thereof , against christ and his kingdom , who came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them , who came not to lay burdens , but to take off burdens , who came not to destroy the poor and needy , but to relieve the oppressed ; and have not your general courts done all this and much more , which they may see and behold with confusion of face ? and when they have whipt them and scourged them , fined them and imprisoned them , ceized upon their lands , taken away their goods , wasted their estates , banished them upon pain of death , and when nothing hath remained of all their estates , have ordered their children to be sold for bond-slaves , and this by the appointment of your general court , and for no other cause but because they would not put off their hats to their equals , or come to your publick assemblies . oh! un-heard-of and unparallel'd wickedness , the name of your general court and the appointments and ordinances thereof will be crowned with infamy and reproach from generation to generation , but this is com'd to pass that your hypocrisie might be made manifest , and your skirts uncovered that your shame might appear , and that might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet , they cat up my people as men eat bread ; are these the fruits , symptomes and characters that your hearts are rent and broken in new england , or are they not rather manifest tokens that your hearts are like adamant , or like the nether mil-stone or like flint , which is harder then ordinary stones , in which there is no remorse or reluctancy ? and is not this your state , as it was with israel when their hearts were hard ? doth not christ say , by their 〈◊〉 the false prophets are known , and the tree is known by its fruits ; and have not you brought forth the same fruits ? do not your 〈◊〉 and teachers rule and teach for reward ? nay , are ●hey not worse ? have not you taken money from them whom you judged malefactours to pay your servants for doing of your work to your marshals and your bloody taskmasters and wicked executioners ? oh! shameless man and full of impudency that ever thou durst put pen to paper , or that the general court should ever appoint thee to tell the nations that your heart was rent in new england ; but the terrour of the lord and the dread of god you must all know before your hearts be rent , which is yet impenitrable and hard , or else all these wretched manifestations and fruits thereof would never have appeared ; but one of thy own generation if not thy self saith , that a company of thieves , fornicators and fellons may cry out of deserved punishment as persecution as well as we ; god hath cleared us and redeemed us from those things , but is not putting off the hat to ones equal , or not joyning or coming to your congregation , that they deserve punishment sutable to thieves , fornicators and fellons , but persecutors and blood-thirsty men were ever blind ; for christ , the prophets and apostles and all the holy men of god who suffered for the testimony of a good conscience , were ever reputed transgressours and judged that they suffered deservedly by them who caused them to suffer ; christ was crucified betwixt two thieves , and herod the governour and his men of war set him to naught , and he was numbred amongst transgressors , as it is written of him , and so were all his followers by them that were in cains way , and in baalams way ; and so hast thou with the rest of babylons merchants these divers years numbred us amongst transgressors , every sect and opinion hitherto hath joyned us to that opinion or sect which was contrary to them , but thou would marr our countenance more than any , thou hath not found a generation bad enough to number us with in this age , but is gone back a thousand years to fetch up men and doctrines and principles , and would fasten them upon us , and so to represent us odious to people , thou might have spent thy time better then to have raked in those old mouldy histories , in which i see thou art better acquainted then with the mind of christ ; but i shall not trouble the reader with thy stories , neither vindicate their doctrines and principles , which were counted hereticks , these men are dead and gone , thou might have let them pass , and have medled with things that pertained to thy own generation , but that thy dead mind feeds upon dead things ; & to tell thee and the world plainly , that thou which will lye and lay things to their charge which they never knew nor maintained , which may be are living and can reprove thee for thy falshood and deceit in this generation , thou may well speak falsly and lay things to their charge which they never maintained which are at such a distance as or years ago , and if the adversaries of these men did write their principles and set down their errours and blasphemies as i believe many of them did , i do less credit their report , and i am not altogether unacquainted with ecclesiastical histories from whence thou hast had these stories , although now i count the time just lost in which i spent in those things ; and though thou judge that we vilifie the scripture , yet i prefer it above and before all the ecclesiastical histories that i have read ; i shall not trouble the reader with thy old hetrodoxes , as thou calls them , of the heads of religion , there is many that knows those things as well as thy self , and as for praxes , sabellers , nestorus cerinthius , eutichas , nor with quintinius , swinckfield , muncer , david george and john of leyden , what are these to us ? and what are their principles to us ? some thing they spoke which was real heresie , if the histories be true , whereof i much doubt , because many such as thy self were the authors thereof , and something it may be was truth which might be vindicated , not because they held it , but because it is truth in it self ; and as for thy comparing of them to us , and their principles to ours , doth not at all detract or invalidate truth as it is in it self , for corrupt minds may speak true words , and that which is truth in it self , yet not live in the life thereof , they are judged though , the truth in it self stands clear , and so what as they were in their principles and practise in life or in doctrine , must they give account for ; but thou like the rest of the hireling priests of england used alwayes to be confuting your adversaries when they were at a great distance , when they were dead and could not reply , or at such a distance that they could not hear , and you are such valiant champions for the most part as to disputation , except you have club-men and prison-doors standing open , to fight or to shut them in , you will hardly enter into a dispute publickly , or it may be if they be afraid that they shall be worsted and their ▪ deceit laid open , put a key in the mouth of one , as some did in the mouth of humph. norton , when he was with one of thy brethren , and then cry , the opposite or quaker he hath nothing to say for himself ; & such dark muddy stories you used to fill up your hour with , as to confute arius & pelagius , men that were hundreds of years dead , and no such principles holden in a nation , and such dead stories you fill peoples minds with , and confute the pope when your elbows was leaning upon the soft cushons on the pulpit , and or s. for such a dead story as you told people , but when have you gone amongst them and reasoned of the things of the kingdom of god into their dominions , and convinced them by sound doctrine , and yet you will say christ said , go into all nations and preach , and plead that for your commission , and it may be stay forty years over a hundred families . as for the hetrodoxes of the quakers concerning the heads of religion , as thou hast set down , this i say to thee , and to all the world , we do not hold them because any man before did hold them , or may hold them after , but because god hath revealed them unto us by his spirit , which also may be confirmed by the testimony of the scriture of truth . as to those which thou sets down as our tenents i shall answer on the lords behalf for truthes sake , and for the rest thou may take them home to thy self . first concerning the trinity thou saith , they confesse the father , son and holy ghost , and yet they deny the trinity , and those to bet hree distinct persons , for confutation of this thou brings heb. first and third ; he is the expresse image of his fathers person . thy trinity is an old popish term and we love to keep to sound words , but by trinity i suppose thou means three , and thy own words shall confute thee ▪ thou confesseth we say there is father , son and holy ghost , and yet but one god , or one eternal being or substance in which they all subsist , but thy word distinct is thy own and not the spirits , yet to distinguish betwixt father , son and spirit we deny not ; and as for the first of heb , it is in another translation rendred the expresse image of his substance , for person is too grosse a word , as to expresse an eternal and divine being in , and if thou do hold three distinct substances thou errs in thy judgement , for that were to make three gods . secondly , they deny christ to be god and man in one person , and christ to be a distinct person from the father , and they acknowledge such a christ as unchrists christ ; and when they say christ manifest in the flesh , they mean not as the scripture , but falaciously . answ. we say according to the scripture of truth and not according to thy falacy , that in the man christ did the fulness of the godhead dwell , and god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , and he saith i and my father are one , and the father the son and the spirit subsist in one eternal power , life and glory , which thou with all thy stupid generation are ignorant of ; and christ that we acknowledge is such a christ as is able to save to the utmost them that come unto him , and receive him and believe in him , and is such a christ is as able to raise them that have been dead , and such a christ giveth eternal life to them that believe ; and so that christ that we own doth not un-christ christ , but by your doctrine who pleads imperfection and the continuation thereof , and a continuation in sin for term of life , as one of thy own said , sin will dwell in the house till the house be pulled down , speaking of the natural body , which some other of thy own generation have called the body of sin , and so it is you that hold such a christ as unchrists the true christ in thy own words ; and when didst thou enter into our thoughts and into our heart , or with what dost thou search , that thou sits as judge over the heart , who knowes not judgement in thy self nor of what spirit thou art of , and so thy lies and deceit is turned upon thee ; when we say christ manifest in the flesh we say that holy thing which was brought forth and born of a virgin , and conceived of the holy ghost in whom the fulness of the god-head , dwells , in whom the eternal power of the father was manifested , that he was the christ which was manifested in the flesh and justified in the spirit , preached among the gentiles , seen of angels , and received up into glory , and this is according to scripture of truth , and thy judgement must be judged . thirdly , concerning the scripture considered as the rule of life , they deny the scripture or written word to be the rule of life , and they make the spirit without the scripture to be their guide , they account chyrch , instituted worship and waiting upon god for the efficacious pres●nce and operation of the spirit of grace in the ministry of the word and sacrament for conversion and edification to be i●●latry , and the political order of church officers and members they affirm to be an image . answ. concerning the scripture we say they are scriptures of truth and words of truth spoken from the spirit or truth , that which gave them a being is greater then they , as he that creates is greater then they that ar● created , which is preferred above and before , and yet no deminishing or detracting from the creature ; so the spirit is greater above and before the words , and yet this doth not deminish , neither derogate from the scripture ; these and the like sound words we have spoken to thy deaf generation , yet a spirit of slumber being upon them all , they could not hear that which giveth life , and bringeth to life , and preserves in the life , is a rule and a guide to them that are enlivened , the sons of god who were quickned by the eternal spirit of their father & of christ , and raised from death to life , this was their rule , as it is written , as many as are the sons of god are led by the spirit of god , and we say it is a sufficient rule of it self , and thou may as well count the rule of the sons of god hetrodox and heretical , and the apostles position , who said , as many as are the sons of god are led by it , and christ promised unto believers the spirit of truth to lead them into all truth , and to bring things to their remembrance , and to guide them in the path of righteousness ; what has envy and madness eaten all the good out of your hearts ? yet the scripture is not so excluded by us as thou judgest , though we say the spirit may lead and direct with it , or without it , yet not contrary to it , for the spirit doth , will and may take up what thing it pleaseth to manifest it self and its mind unto the creature , and who art thou ? and what art thou ? any thing but an egyptian who would limit it , and tie it to paper and ink , to words and syllables sounded and written in diverse tongues , languages and caracters ; they that appointed thee for a minister never knew gods work , and we know that there are several ministrations and several operations , yet the same god and the same spirit who manifested it self , and formeth and ordaineth things according to its heavenly will , to represent its heavenly mind to the creature , and that which christ hath ordained and instituted to be worshipped in , waited in , and his presence seen in , and the operation of the spirit of grace in the work of the ministry , which is for conversion and edification is dearly owned by us , as that whereby we have found the lord and his pure presence through this or that thing , and without and beyond all creatures or visible appearances , and this is not accounted idolatry by us , as thou falsly saith , which god will judge thee for in the day when he appears to take vengeance upon his enemies in flames of fire , and thou that talkes of trying the spirit by the letter knowes no more of god then a horse , but what thou knowes naturally ; the jewes had it , and they tryed and condemned him for a blasphemer , and the apostles for breakers of the law and makers of it void , and so condemned the lord of life , and the spirit by which the prophets and apostles was led by , even as thou doth with us ; and i never heard of any political order of church ordinance or officers or ordinances , not of the most dark and sottishest marchants of babylon that ever spoke or wrote yet , there was sundry gifts given and sundry institutions in the primitive times which were signal things of things of a more heavenly and celestial nature which was to be made manifest ; he gave some gifts to be prophets , some evangelists , some apostles , some pastors , some teachers , but these were ministeriall for the work and service which he had appointed , but this was all by one and the same spirit , but i never heard of any political order of office● , or political ordinances ordained in the primitive churches ; but it seems you have got such in new england ; in the church of rome , so called , i have heard of the order of benedict , of francis and austin , and the like and of several ordinances instituted by their mother to perform ; but i never heard of any such as a political order of officers and ordinances before , and this may be called an image indeed , and nothing in the world but deceit , and is no hetrodoxy ; that ever such a blind fellow as thou should put pen to paper , who hath crept so into the mudd and dirt , that grosse ignorance and darkness is in all thy words ; but the least of the children of light will see thy ignorance , so that i need not say much . concerning the magistrate , they own none are lawful magistrates who are not of their way , their non-acknowledgement of the magistrate , as now established , in all christian states is more then nanifest answ. if thy aspersion were full proof no more need be said , but the judicious will not easily believe thee ; that there is a state of magistracy is granted by us , and that a true magistrate that rules well , and rules in the power of god and is a terror to evil doers , and a praise to them that do well , and are as nursing fathers , who preserves mens persons and estates from devourers , as a father preserves a child from injury , these are ordained of god , and such we are subject unto for the lords sake and for conscience sake , and to every ordinance of man which is consistant with the honour of god and a pure conscience , but i believe you have few of them in new england , who are rather like beares and lyons tearing and rending their estates , and rends and tears their flesh , and gnawes it like evening wolves that the prophet speaks of , and would thou have this counted as gods authority ? and we tell thee and all the world in singleness of heart and unfeignedness , that our way is christ the way to the father , the truth and the life , the power of god and the wisdom of god , and all that rule not in his power rule in the devils power , in the dragons power , in the beasts power , who made war with the lamb and killed the saints , and compelled them to worship , and herein they that rule in the power of god and for god are manifest , and them that rule in the dragon and beasts power , for they that rule in the power of god answereth gods witness in every man , and reaches to that by his act of justice in the transgressor , and he restraineth the evil doer within , and limiteth that , and preserves the creature as much as him lies from harm , and his estate from destruction , and also saveth the innocent , meek and harmless from the violence , and from beating and fighting , and from them that would destroy their persons and estates ; and herein the magistrate that rules in the dragons power and in the beasts power , he is also made manifest , he reacheth not gods witness by his governing , he lests the transgressor live , and is not a terrour to evil works and workers , but a terrour to them that do well and exercise a pure conscience towards god and man , and may be cannot go into the house of rimmon , neither can bow to baal , nor be subject to that which another may set up in his will and in his pride , then he afflicts the body , the creature , and mars gods workmanship and defaces it , and doth violence to the creature , and rends away his outward subsistance , and sayes for his authority it was so ordered at our general court . i must tell thee , the false church , the mother of harlots has ridden long upon the scarlet-coloured beast , which has been made drunk with the blood of the saints , whose garments have been red with scarlet colour ; and i know no where in any christian state ( so called ) where he reigns in more power then in new england , and you ride upon the beast which hath risen out of the sea , which is amongst you , and the beast carries you , your church , on his back bears it up , for all your weapons are but carnal , and that which wrestles with flesh and blood , which the true church wrestles not with , nor with creatures , but with spiritual wickedness and principalities and powers of darkness in the creature , and threw that down and saved the creature alive , and redeemed it who was in captivity . oh sottish children , when will you learn wisdom , and when will you hearken to reproof of instruction which is the way to life ? but remember this , the beast shall be taken alive with the false prophet , and them that have wrought miracles before him , and then shall be cast into the lake of fire . they pretend to act from an infallible light within them , and professes perfection in degrees in this life , and publish smart invectives against ministers who teach the contrary . answ. we pretend to nothing but to that which god hath given us through his free mercy , which we have a true right unto , having received him as the father hath tendered him to be a light to open our eyes , and to be a leader unto us and all his people , and to be gods salvation , even to the ends of the earth to them that receive him , and he is that infallible light which the father sent into the world , that all men through him might believe , and he is the true light that lightneth every man , though every man hath not received him , the fault is not in the giver , nor in the gift , but in them that will not receive , and he that is the life of all men , hath lighted every man that comes into the world , and he is in us our hope , and our glory , the riches of the gentiles , and the riches of all them that do believe , he is our way and our life and peace , i say all glory unto him for ever , though thou debase him & set him thus at naught , and for his sake we can bear reproaches and become fools , in that we have obtained that in which true wisdom stands and life eternal ; and what is this hetrodox to profess perfection of degrees in this life , is not this orthodox ? used not you and do not you generally hold perfection in part or parts , and is not that which is perfect in parts perfect in degrees ? he that feels victory over one sin by christ the power of god , hath not he some part in that which is perfect , and of that which is perfect ? and if he witness victory over more , is he not come to a greater degree or degrees of the life which is perfect ? and he that knows the blood that cleanseth from all sin , is not he perfect and compleat in him who hath made him so ? but art thou so offended at perfection that thou dost not admit of any part or parts , degree or degrees thereof , that thou sets this down as a blasphemy ? and its time indeed to reprove you sharply who are puffed up in pride and knows nothing , who teaches contrary to the perfect life of christ , or any degree or degrees thereof to be attained unto ; thou art perfect in wickednesse , and a perfect minister of antichrist , and a perfect heathen , and its time to bear testimony against you and lay you open , and your deceit in the sight of the sun , that them that have but the least glimring of the light may behold you ; a pitiful church is that like to be which thou art pastor of , by appointment of the general court , who cryes out against any degree of the perfect life of christ in this life to be obtained or enjoyed , a minister of sin , a minister of sathan and unrighteousness , that is thy name , own it . in the ninth page thou art going about to prove thy trinity , as thou calls it , and thou saist , the father is a distinct subsistance , and the son a distinct subsistance , and the holy ghost is a distinct subsistance , and thou brings john . there is another bears witness likewise , speaking of the holy ghost , he calls him another , and this another thou sayes , is intel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the essence , and then saith , what is more manifest then another subsistance , and another subsistance speaks distinct subsistances , and thou saith , the spirit is called the hand of trinity . answ. another is not understood of another being of another life or another substance , but is understood of another manifestation or operation of the same god who subsists in the same power in which the father the son and the spirit subsisteth , as i said unto thee before , another , as to distinguish of the operation and work of the spirit , and of the son , we do not refuse ; but to make three distinct essences and beings is ignorance and errour , as thou saith , another is intel●gible of the essence , and so thou hast made three essences , three subsistances , three persons and three gods ; but we say there is but one god , and there is three that bears record in heaven , the father , the word and the spirit , and these three are one . now as for subsistance and essence , they are unsound words coyned of your selves , from your dark imaginations , in which there is no truth at all , but to cast a mist ; now where the holy ghost is called a person in the scripture i have never read , and where it is called the hand of trinity i have never heard of before thee , and so thy blind ignorant conclusions and sophistical arguing will have little place with them that are come to know the teachings with the spirit , and also keep to a form of sound words , which thou cannot . and thou saith , he that sendeth and he that is sent are distinct , and so the father sending the son , and the son sent of the father , and the father and the son sending the spirit , and the spirit sent by the father and the son are distinct subsistances , and not the same . he that sends and he that is sent may be distinguished , but he that sendeth and him that is sent is not so distinct & afar off one another , but that him that sendeth is with him that is sent ; and so god was in christ reconciling the world , and then how were they distinct one from the other , and by him was all things made , and christ was not so distinct or afar off at a distance when the heavens and the earth was made ; so that it is truly said , without him nothing was made that was made , and the spirit of god which may be distinguished in regard of its operation , yet it was not absent or distinct from the father and the son in the creation , neither is absent from the son in the regeneration , or work of redemption . and then in thy answer to an objection which thou makest thy self , how the doctrine of life was communicated vocally by the patriarchs , but it is not so now ; and in thy answer thou saith , the scripture is not necessary , absolutely , but it being gods will to communicate life through the scripture , hence the scripture is necessary ; and then thou sayes , not the letter without the mind of the authour , nor the spirit without the scripture ; and that the words in the th of john . that they may be one as we are one ; these words give an uncertain sound , thou saist ; and further thou saist , surely , they are under a rule of live who hare not the spirit since the canon of the scripture is closed , so far is the spirit from being a rule of life , that to us it is not the spirit , except it move in the written word . answ. gross darkness is thy dwelling-place , and out of thick darkness all this pitiful confusion cometh , the doctrine of life was communicated according to the will and mind of god , sometime by dream , sometime by vision , sometime by revelation to the patriarchs and believers from abel till moses , and by faith they were followers of christ , and doubtless they did communicate in their generation those things that were manifest unto them by the spirit , which was the then rule and guide to the feet of the upright in the way of peace before any scripture was written , and if the scripture be not necessary absolutely , thou hast said as much as we say , therefore we ' speak of a rule and a way which is absolute necessary , without which no man can know the father or the son , nor the way of peace , but by the spirit of truth which gave forth the words of truth , which may manifest and doth manifest it self as it will , when it will , where it will , and how it will , for it is unlimitted , and it will not be limitted by its own words as to sound , but may speak words which it never spoke before , as for instance , paul by the spirit said , the second adam the lord from heaven is a quickning spirit , which none of the scriptures before written speaks in these very words , and if the spirit be not spirit without the letter , then where the letter is wanting the spirit is wanting , and consequently them that have the scripture have the spirit , which were no less then ignorance and darkness to say , and what rule are they under who have not the spirit or no measure of it , there is but the spirit of truth and the spirit of errour , and they that are not ruled by the spirit of truth , they are ruled by the spirit of errour , though they may have the words to fight with and quarrel about without the life ; but last of all thou hast in plain words set the dead letter before the living spirit , and saith , that the spirit is no spirit except it speak by the scripture ; and if the words of christ in the th of john give an uncertain sound , it is but to thy deaf ear and to thy blind understanding , for he spoke soundly and certainly , and prayed to the father that as the father and he was one , so they also might be one , being guided by the one spirit of the father in the son , and that they might live in the unity of it , and have unity one with another in it , and with the father and the son . in thy th page , though thou hast set up the letter for a perfect rule of life , yet here thou throws it down again , and saith , it is to be understood as including consequences , for the greatest part of scripture is consequences , and the scripture cannot be true without consequences , for thomas and mary are neither commanded obedience or forbidden disobedience , for we no where read thou thomas or thou mary are therein commanded obedience or forbidden disobedience , such a one by name do this or that . answ. i told thee the spirit of god is unlimitted , and whether it speaks of degrees or measures of a greater or less thing , or whether it speaks the greater first and the lesser after , whether it speaks from major to minor , or from minor to major , or what may truly follow either from the greater to the less or from the less to the greater it is all truth , but thy consequences is no part of this , the spirit still demonstrates its own mind by what words and terms and expressions it pleaseth , and will not be limitted or confined to this or that form of words , and thou errs grosly , neither knowing the scripture nor the power of god , and thy consequences are false , for there are the individual persons or names of thomas and mary , both commanded obedience and forbidden disobedience , and if thou have never read this in scripture , i inform thee and instruct thee , thou may read the th of john , . where jesus saith unto mary , she turned herself and said unto him rabboni , which is to say master , jesus said unto her , touch me not , for i am not yet ascended ; here is a prohibition , and forbidding that she should not touch him , secondly here is a command of obedience , but go unto my brethren and say unto them i ascend to my father and your father , to my god and your god ; and in the same chapter thou may read in the th where christ spoke unto thomas by name ( after his resurrection ) then said he to thomas , reach hither thy finger and behold my hands , and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side ; here was a command to be obeyed , and be not faithless , there is a prohibition or a forbidding of unbelief , and so thy foolishness is manifest and ignorance of the scripture , some of it thou sayes is an uncertain sound , and the scriptures fore-mentioned thou hast denied or else never hast read it , and so art unacquainted with thy rule which thou quarrels and fights so much about . and then thou comes and sayes , thou wilt vindicate some scriptures , and cites john . that this was the true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world , hence they affirm that there is a light in every man , which being followed is an infallible guide , and that this light which lighteth every man is the rule of life , and not the written word ; thy answer is , the sence of the text is notoriously false and thy reason is if christ the true light that lighteth every man be the rule , then righteousnesse should be by the law ; for the light which is in every man is not gospel light , but there is a natural light or the light of nature , which is to be construed in opposition to spiritual , and the light of nature and the light of the spirit are contradistinct , and by this light of nature there is a difference put betwixt that which is good and bad , and it will teach us not to lye nor steal , and it will lead to the knowledge of one god , and yet it is in opposition to one spirit , and it will lead to know eternity omnipotency , and it will lead to know the creator , yet it is contradistinct to the spirit . answ. the scripture needs none of thy vindication , for thou hast defamed it and sayes christs words is an uncertain sound , and thou hast said that neither mary nor thomas was commanded obedience ; thou may look back of thy lyes and repent of them , and why is the sence of the text utterly false , that christ was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world without exception , and why is this utterly false , if he be followed , that he who is the true light is an infallible guide , and the rule of life , hath he not enlighted every man that comes into the world ? if thou make exceptions where the spirit makes none , then thou perverts the scripture ; doth not he say i am the light of the world , the world in the scriptures account is set in opposition to believers , for believers are not of this world , but are redeemed out of it , as for example , god so loved the world that he sent his son into the world , that whosoever did believe in him might not perish , but have everlasting life , for it is manifest that the saints and believers had life given already that followed christ and were his sheep , and saith christ , i put them forth and go before them , and give unto them eternal life ; and he said to them who had not eternal life , while you have the light believe in it , that you may be the children of it ; and is not christ gods righteousness , who is given for a covenant of light to the blind , and dead , and lame , & to the dumb to open their eyes , to quicken them , to make them leap as a hart , and their tongue to sing and utter forth praise ; we say righteousness is not by the law , but by christ that lighteth every man who is the end of the law , and why is not the light which lighteth every man gospel light , seeing it is said , go preach the gospel in every creature under heaven ; go learn what that means , and if natural light must be construed in opposition to spiritual , and the light of nature contradistinct to the light of the spirit , then it must needs be sinful , for that which opposeth spiritual light & is set in opposition against its leading , must needs be sinful , and that which is contra or against the light of the spirit must needs be sinful ; and then if it be as thou hast said , and if this must be the true sence of that scripture , that it must be understood of natural light , and that natural light thou construes in opposition to spiritual , and saith it is contradistinct to the light of the spirit , and in opposition unto it , that which is against the spirits light or the light of the spirit must needs be darkness , sinful and evil , and yet thou hast confessed it will teach that none ought to lye or steal , and to know one god , and the creator , and eternity and omnipotency , and yet it must be taken in opposition to the spirit , and contradistinct from the spirit ; that which leads to know the creator and eternity and omnipotency is that spirit of god , through which god and the things of god are revealed , and that that teaches that a man should not lye , that is truth , and that that leads from sin , and accuses for evil-doing and convicts , that is the spirits light , as it is written , he shall convince the world of sin ; and so thou like a man who hath lost all aim , rambles up and down in every by-path , and like a blind man gropes , but cannot enter into the treasure-house of wisdom , thou hast called the light that every one is lighted with , the righteousness of the law , and no gospel light , and in opposition to spiritual , and contradistinct to the spirit , and in a word hath made at it at the best construction but bad and evil , and then when thou hast done thou confesseth that it will put a difference between good & evil , and shew that god is to be worshipped , and eternity is known and omnipotency ; and are not these the deep things of god ? and so b●bylon is the land of thy nativity , and thou reels and staggers up and down like a drunken man , and would be a teacher , and knows not whereof thou affirms , nor of what thou speaks . further thou saith , that this little light there is , is much miscarried , and thy reason is , because it is managed by the reigning power of darkness , and the judgement of man is corrupt , and then thou goes on , the light of nature since the fall is not to be compared ( saist thou ) with the light of the image of god before the fall , and it hath no proportion with gospel light , but is gross darkness , nay , is worse then gross darkness . answ. and how did the light miscarry thou blind-man , and when did the reigning power of darkness manage it , seeing that there is no fellowship betwixt light and darkness , and the light which every man is lighted with hath born witness against darkness and the reigning power of it , and though the judgment of man be corrupt , his miscarriage is because he hath not minded the light , and because he hath turned his back on it , and then sin entred , and then came to reign in the power of darkness , and corrupted the heart , and this hath made man miscarry ; and though thou say that the light which lighteth every man is not compared with the light of the image of god before the fall , and hath no proportion , i 'le tell thee a riddle go learn what it means , the light of the image of god before the fall is the same in it self after the fall , and holds its proportion , and is no whit lessned or deminished in its purity in its self , although fallen man do not see it neither can behold it , because sin hath entred and death by sin , and that is it which obscureth the image of god from man , and its light , yet the light shined in darkness , but thou concludes it is darkness , yea worse then grosse darkness , and thou brings a proof to prove it , ye were darkness , the apostle doth not say that the light which shined in darkness was darkness or worse then grosse darknesse as thou ignorantly saith , but he said the ephesians or the men of ephesus were darkness , and not the light in them which shined in darkness , though the darkness comprehended it not ; but how now john norton , what will the general court of boston say when they see thy confusion laid open , and the deceit made manifest to thine and their shame and ignorance , thou confest in the . page , that it would lead to know god and the worship of god , and teach not to lie and steal , and so forth , and to discover some of gods attributes , as eternity , omnipotency , and the like , here was some good in it in thy own account , but now it s become grosse darkness , in the . page and worse then grosse darkness , and so hath made as bad if not worse then any principle that is in a beast ; and it may truely be said of thee even in thy own phrase . — quanta sub nocte jacebat nostra dies — but now thou comes to a further interpretation of job . . and thou saith the light which we are enlightned with it is either the light of nature the light of reason or the light of saving grace , and the light enlightning is either the word considered as the second person or christ the son considered as incarnate . answ. it seems that thou knowes not which it is , but gueses like a blind man , and like a wild archer shootes at random ; and why dost thou make such distinction betwixt the word the son of god , and christ the son of god , thou made but three persons in the trinity before , but it seems by thy arguing thou would now make four ; and as for thy collective and distributive light , the distinctions is that which would cast a mist before people eyes , and thou brings the judgement of calvin , besar , and piscator , and others , that as concerning man endued onely with the light remaining since the fall , they conclude him to be darkness and unable to comprehend the light or to improve it to salvation , their judgements is more sound then thine , though thou would bring them to strengthen thee that the son of god hath not enlightned every man , they confesse , the man in the fall is in darkness , and darkness is over him , and in that he is not able to comprehend the light which is in him , and as to the improvement of it , in the darkness man hath not power to improve it to salvation , but what doth this invalidate the light which is in darkness , the power of improving is in the light being turned to again and received ; and what if i say it is the light of life in its self though thou deny it , i know what i speak ; for in him was life and is life , and that life is the light of men , and the light of the world , and so that light which every man is lighted with , is of the life and from the life , and so may truely be said to be the light of life in it self , though man in the transgression doth not feel it so as to him , but may truely say it is the light of condemnation , because he feels it so in the operation thereof , being in the transgression , it convicteth , reproveth , accuseth and condemneth for evil , and therefore it cannot be the light of life to him , till it be received closed with obeyed and followed , and then the back is turned upon the transgression , and man is come out of the darkness ; and therefore the apostle spoke well and understandingly according to knowledge , that which was ordained for life wrought death in him , that was because the law was against him , and he in the contrary nature to it , the ignorance of many wise men ( so accounted ) in this generation is such , that when they see or feel contrary effects , they judge there must needs be contrary subjects or objects because there are different effects ; for now the same light which shewes evil and accuses for it , and judges for it , there is one operation , and excuses him that loves it and obeyes it , here is another operation , that which convinceth the world of sin , of righteousness & of judgement , and that which consolates and gives peace to the believer is the self same spirit ; so here is not two spirits or two lights , so that he which kindles a fire in the earth , and appears in flames of fire , and rendreth vengeance upon all them that obey not the gospel which is the power of god , here is one work or operation of christ , the same bringeth peace , joy and gladness , and refreshment , and makes the springs of life to buble up in them that believe , here is another operation yet the same christ ; these things i write to inform thee and all where this may come , that that is truely an appearance of christ which sheweth sin and condemns it in any measure , and he alone is the judge of the quick and the dead , and if all judgement be committed to the son , then to be judged for lying for stealing , and for wronging any man , it is the work of christ and the work of the son . oh man thou hast much to repent of , and thy ignorance is great , which hath called christ the light or the light of christ , or the light of life darkness , and contradistinct to the spirit , and worse then grosse darkness , so this is thy conclusion against the first of john and the . that christ hath not enlightned every man or all men that come into the world , but all men so qualified of every sort , so then by thy conclusion the first of john and the . verse gives an uncertain sound , like the . of john and ▪ so then its qualifications of men that procures light from christ , and so it s not of grace but of debt , but if it be of debt , which is owing unto a person so qualified , then it is not of gift , but thou errs in thy judgement , for it is by the gift of righteousness that justification comes upon all that believes , it is not this or that qualification before their conversion which is any cause of gods enlightning them , but it is the free love of god unto man without exceptions , or respect of persons that he hath lighted every man , to the intent that all and every man might see his error and depart from it , and turn to him that shewes him it , who would have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth , and such is the large love of god unto whole man-kind , which thou wouldst restrict and bind up to such and such persons so qualified , as though qualifications of persons were a meritorious cause wherefore christ was bound to give them light , this is rank popery , and not according to the doctrine of godliness . and thou citest the pet. . . we have a more sure word of prophesie , where unto you do well that you take heed as unto a light that shineth in a dark place , untill the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts , hence it is inferred , thou saith , that after the reception of the spirit there is no need to attend to the scripture , and so thou goes on and sayes the word of prophesie is the scripture of the old testament , that thou art to take heed unto untill the day dawned and the day star arised in their hearts ; and that untill signifies for ever . asw. and here thou art in confusion , i know none that makes any such inference but thy self , for the scripture is seen most clearly , who know the day dawn and the day-star arisen in their hearts ; and first thou sayes , we are to understand the word of prophecy the whole scripture , and then in the same page saith , that peter expounds the word prophesie of the old testament onely , so then peters exposition by thy account , and thine is different , thou sayes he spoke of the old testament , and thy interpretation is of the whole scripture , but thou hast mist it , both of peter and thy self , for peter wrote unto people in that epistle in several states , yet they all might be said to be believers , according to a proportion of faith given unto them , and in that which thou hast cited p●t. . . we have also a more sure word of prophesie , here is to be understood first a sure word , secondly a more sure word , for the apostle in that chapter speaking of their diligence towards them that did believe , and declared unto them that they had not followed devised fables , when we made known unto you the power and coming of our lord jesus christ , but are eye witnesses of his majesty , verse . and heard the voice from this excellent glory , this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased , when we were with him in the mount , this was as sure a word to the apostles as any that ever the prophets had spoken before was to them , and so the old testament could not be more sure then this which they had from the excellent glory , but this was not so sure unto them to whom peter wrote , and this was only the apostles declaration , but the word of prophesie unto which he exhorted them unto was nearer them then any of the prophets words or the apostles testimony of what they had heard in the mount , the testimony of jesus is the spirit of prophesie , to wit that which bears witness against sin and to righteousness , from this the prophets spoke , and this was that publike thing or spirit , and they that speak not from it speak from a private spirit of their own , and this word of prophesie or that wherein they could see or foresee things to come , they were to take heed unto as unto a light which shined in a dark place , and this was the more sure word which he directed to , which in all thy book thou quarels against , and through this they saw the appearance , and knew the coming of our lord jesus christ in power and great glory , and did see the day dawn and the day star arise in their hearts , and they were to attend to this not onely before , but also after , for by the word of his testimony the saints did overcome , and so all thy interpretations are false , and thine is the private interpretation , and not from that sure word of prophesie which the prophets and believers took heed unto , and through which they interpreted things truely according to the mind of god . as for the story of false teachers arising and prevailing among people , and what the signal nature is , and thou sayest they are sent as scourges and as judgements to them who have not received the truth in the love of it , and thou brings a scripture , i came in my fathers name and ye received me not , john . but if another shall come in his own name him you will receive . it s manifest that thou comes not in his name nor in christs name , and if not so , in thy own name thou comes by the appointment of the general court at boston , and so there will few believe thy fabulous stories which are not worth rehearsal , which will cast a mist before the eyes of them who cannot see through thy deceit , and the sum is , thou sayest , of all that the doctrines of devils audatiously deseminated , pretending themselves to be sent of god , are signal signs of evil times . the doctrine of devils hath long been seminated audaciously by numerous false teachers and false prophets , as christ foretold in mat. . and . which john saw come john . little children it is the last times , ye have heard that antichrists should come and even now there are many , and they have ruled long in most parts of the earth , that john said the whole world wondred after the beast , and this hath been a sad time these . or . hundred years wherein the true church , the woman cloathed with the sun hath been in the wilderness , in a solitary place exiled because of the beasts power , and the dragons power and the false prophets miracles , and because of the doctrines of devils , has made it a sad time and an evil time , such as thou hast taught ( viz. ) that the light which every man is lightned with is grosse darkness , and worse then grosse darkness , and that christ left political officers , and that the lords supper is a visible political church ordinance , and that baptism is a visible political church ordinance , and that it is blasphemy to hold perfection of degrees in this life , and that none can be cleansed from sin while upon earth , these and the like doctrines of devils hath been sown which thou now audatiously seminates by the appointment of the general court at boston , but the time drawes near an end , the night is far spent , and the day is at hand when the beast shall be taken alive , and the old dragon laid hold on , and the mother of harlots burned with fire , and the false prophets which have wroughts miracles before the beast , and has cryed as thou cryest him up in new england , who is able to make war with him , who hath shed the blood of the saints of the most high god which will lie as a stain upon your political church as thou calls it , which will not easily be washed away , the time of your mirth in sodom and egypt is near an end , though you strengthen one another and make merry , yet wo will come when all these before mentioned goes down alive into the pit together , and when the sea is dried up that your traffique will not go off , then alas shall be the note of her merchants , who have traded with her sorceries and witchcrafts , and have made people drunk that they have reeled and staggered and have been all like a sea unstable , and have not known the rock of ages upon whom all that do believe a●● established . thou sayes the gospel is a constitution or effect tempered of the grace of god and of the blood of christ . answ. the gospel thou knowes not , but builds with thy untempered morter , and unseasoned words , and what is the gospel an effect of , it is not onely an effect of an operation , but it is that which operates and is the power of god , which will confound all this mudd and all these muddy traditions which you mix with the scriptures and calls them gospel . and now thou comes to the distructiveness of the doctrine of the quakers , to religion , the churches of christ and christian states , because thou sayst i● appears in this from the nature of the object they single out to fight against , as the trinity , christ , the script●re , order both civil and ecclesiastical as instituted in 〈◊〉 gospel . as to tho●e principles i have answered before in part , but dost thou 〈◊〉 of civil order in your state or in your political church as thou calls it , is that to be counted a civil state , who destroyes the creatures gods workmanship , and destroyes mens estates and sells their free-born children as bond-slaves ? dost thou judge that these rules well according to the appointment of god , who is a terror to them that do well , and an encourager of violence and cruelty ? as your late actions hath sufficiently evinced , and as for the order of your political church , we have heard of it that you are as a company of wild beares , rending and tearing , and stops gloves and napkins , and binds keys over their mouthes , that they may not speak the word of truth amongst you , contrary to primitive order , and as for the doctrine of the quakers , many who knowes it better then thee , knowes it to he distructive to nothing , but to the doctrine of antichrist and such ungodly doctrines as thou hast laid down in this book , as that that light which christ hath enlightned every one withall is grosse darkness , and worse then grosse darkness , and that the supper of the lord is a visible political ordinance , and such black doctrines as these our doctrines are distructive unto . and further thou goes on and tells , the work against order is policy against policy , the pollicy of hell against the pollicy of heaven . it seems your order stands in pollicy both in your church and state , and in craft fraud and deceit , and thou judges that heaven stands in policy to , but he that sits in heaven laughes you to scorn with all your deceit and pollicy . and now thou comes to thy proof and saith , that doctrine that denyes obedience to magistracy in his due subject , in effect denyes the order of magistracy , but their doctrine denyes obedience to magistracy in its due subject , therefore their doctrine denyes the order of magistracy . answ. the major and minor is both false , for we own magistracy in its due subject which stands in the power of god and in the higher power , and that which leads into order and out of confusion and distruction ; and thou must not think to fasten stork and muncer upon us for thy proof , what as they did stands upon their account and not upon ours , and that mischievous spirit of thine is that which presseth on the magistrate to abuse his power , and to intrude into those things which belongs not to him , to keep up your confused babel which thou calls a political church , which must all be scattered with the breath of his mouth and with the brightness of his coming , whom thou yet judges to be gross darkness . in thy th page , & in the th page thou speaks that visible political church , church-officers and church-ordinances are gospel institutions appointed by christ to continue to the end of the world , and that command which paul gave to timothy is to be kept , and that visible political church estate is to continue to the end of the world . answ. i see thou art ignorant of god , christ , heaven , church , church-officers , ordinances and institutions , the churches of christ were established by and in the power of god , and the ministers thereof ministred , walked and ruled in the power of god , and the ordinances and institutions of the true church of god are pure and spiritual , but the church that thou art pleading for the continuation thereof , is a political church , political ordinances , political officers , political institutions , political pastors and teachers , the lords supper a political ordinance , baptism a political ordinance , the spiritual councel which paul gave to timothy about the elders of the church , and about the holy practise which they were to walk in , and the godly conversation this thou calls political ; nay , furthermore thou saist , heaven stands in policy ; and in thy fourth chap. saith , to christ belongs the prerogative of being the onely politician ; these and the like damnable doctrines and heresies thou hast uttered forth , and these must be proved from the first of tim. . ● . and chap. . did paul when he wrote to timothy when he gave him direction about elders and such as took care of the church of god , did he say a bishop is a political officer , and must be blameless ? or did he say a deacon is a polical officer and must be grave ? and therefore reader thou may read these scriptures ; tim. . . cor. . . and thou maist see this sophister , and this man that is void of understanding , who cryeth up the scripture for a rule of life , and yet holds such a church , such pastors , such officers , such ordinances , such institutions which the scripture makes no mention of , and therefore this man having made a monstrous body , a politick church , he imagines a head like it , and therefore blasphemously saith , christ is the greatest politician ; much i need not say unto this black dark stuff , which is to be confounded , which is imaginary and deceit , which the wrath of god must scatter ; but this i say to thee , there was no officers in the church of christ , but they were ministers made so by the spirit , and were made so by the holy ghost , and were ministers of the spirit and not of the letter , and some were elders and ruled in the church and churches , which was sanctified by god the father and preserved in christ jesus , and these were spiritual , and not political ; but thou hast cleared and quitted your selves from being any such church , and that which you call the sacrament which thou calls visible and political , and brings cor. . for thy proof , did paul say as often as ye eat this political bread , and drink this visible political cup you shew forth the lords death till he come ? and did christ when he sent forth his disciples to preach and to baptize in the th of matth. . which thou pleads must continue until the end of the world ? did he send them and say , go and teach and preach the visible & politick word of the kingdom , and baptize them with visible political water , and that this should continue to the end of the world ? and little marvel if the throne of sathan be exalted among you , and such ministers as thou who ministers deceit , and unrighteousness and ungodliness , art set to be a teacher , and appointed so by the general court , who cannot speak a form of sound words , but like a phylosopher , a star-ga●er , an astrologian or a stage-player , which them that reads thy book will see thy tract frothed with such black dark sentences which are like enchantments . as for beckold and knipperdolling , and quintinius and poquius , thou might have taken up thy pen ere now , and not have brought all this rambling stuff out of the history of the germans , which thou wouldst cast upon our backs ; the bishops used to cast it upon your backs , and you upon the baptists backs ; but now we must bear all , and ●●ou in envy unto us , that thereby thou might represent us odious to the world hath made them all quakers , and saith , they are our predecessours , take them to thy self and joyn them to your political church , and your political ordinances , and your politick doctrines , which is of the same nature with theirs , which you maintain and uphold with carnal weapons , as they did theirs . and last of all thou art coming to the magistrates power in matters of religion under the gospel , and thou saith , notwithstanding manifold evils prevails , and the wiles of the devil are great and malignant , and heresie which is a horrid aspect ; yet thou saith , there is balm in gilead , and a physician there ; and the balm and the physician is that thou saith , god hath armed the magistrate with civil power for the defence of religion , through the concurrences of devine benediction , and the magi●trate is to vindicate the truth of god , and also exercise his power for curing the offenders , and for his proof he brings tim. . ● . of whom is hymenius and alexander , whom i have delivered up unto sathan . ans it seems your gospel that you preach hath not power in it to prevail against heresie , neither your weapons are able to prevail which are but carnal ; and so the power to suppress heresie and convince gain-sayers is wholly without you , and though you censure and excommunicate , and deliver up to sathan , as you say , yet you being in sathans power , that which is against you hath power over you ; and therefore you are fain to cry up the beasts power , which alwayes made war with the saints under the name of hereticks , and you say , that in exercising of his power is but defensive , i say yes it is offensive and distructive to the government of christ and his prerogative , unto whom all power belongs both in heaven and earth , and the government lies upon his shoulders , who is a wonderful councellor , of whose government there is no end ; and he is able to defend his church ; and further more to take away thy objection is willing , and furthermore hath promised to keep his church that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it ; and therefore thou who would have the civil magistrate to intrude into those things which belongs not to him , would have them usurpers and traytors unto christ the prince of peace , and the king of his people and head of the church his body , unto whom absolute power and soveraignity belongeth and glory , which he will not give to another ; and as for all the proofs which thou brings of the magistrates under the first covenant , they are all invalid , as to the second covenant , for all the kings and magistrates in the first covenant what as they did in and about religion , as to the punishment of the false prophets , and them that had familiar spirits and wizards , they were but typical as in reference unto christ the second , covenant who hath another way to kill the false prophets and to make war against heresie and blasphemy , and against all sorcerers , deceivers and antichrists , by the two-edged sword which proceeds out of his mouth , with which his enemies shall be slain who will not that he should rule and exercise his spiritual power against his spiritual enemies ; is not heresie an errour , an inbred thing ? and is an outward sword like to reach to that ? therefore though thou may press the magistrates or them whom thou calls so by their coersive power , as thou calls it , and promise to them devine benediction , like the pope , for making of laws against that which thou and others may judge blasphemy and heresie , and execute them with whips and ropes and cutting off ears , and destroying the creature , yet this doth not reach to heresie and blasphemy , and all the balm and physick that you have in new england , wherein your hope standeth , as hath yet appeared , are your knotted whips and pitched ropes , banishment and death ; here is balm and physick indeed which destroys the creation ; and what , was paul a magistrate who censured hym●nius and alexander ? or else what dost thou bring this for ? thou frames an objection , and also an answer , that the int 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of a●thority in matters of religion is violation of liberty of conscience ; thy answer is , church authority is authority , were this objection good , the church may not then , thou saith , authoritatively deal with any of her members , for holding forth or teaching of false doctrine , contrary to gal. . . and rev. . ● . answ. the objection is good enough , the interposing of civil authority in matters of religion is a leading them beyond their line , for that which is ordained for the ordering of civil things is not to intrude into that which is beyond its sphere ; and why may not the true church authoritatively deal with any of her members for holding forth false doctrine ? what dost thou think that paul in the fifth of the galatians , when he wished that they were even cut off that troubled them , that he would have had them killed or beat with pitched robes ? or would he have had the galatians to have denied them , and have them exercised their authority in the power of the lord jesus christ ? and dost thou bring rev. . . to prove that thyatira had not power in the authority of god to have thrown out and judged jezebel ? this was their fault , because they suffered her , who called her self a prophetess , to teach and seduce , and to eat things sacrificed to idols , or thou judges they wanted some magistrate to kill her authoritatively ; and if the church may not deal with the members authoritatively , who makes defection from the faith , why have you excommunicated and thrown out so many for hereticks in new england ? thou saith , liberty of conscience , and liberty for errour and heresie are two things ; and the error of conscience is a liberty to bondage , and thou brings , they shall put you out of the synagogues , john . and to think to murther the saints was service unto god , was not from conscience but errour of conscience ; but the ob●ect thou saith , subjected to the coersive power must be some act of the outward man ; and further thou saith , there is a difference between quiet heresie and turbulent heresie , schism and sedition . answ. it is true , liberty of conscience and liberty of errour and heresie are two things , but these lyes both without the power and the line of any civil power , as civil power to reach unto , the one he should encourage , that is to say , them who exercise a pure conscience towards god and towards man ; and as for the other errour in judgement , it s beyond the power of the civil magistrate to rectifie , but as it puts forth it self in outward acts of wickedness , as to kill , steal , murther , adultery , defrauding , cozening and cheating in outward things , then the sword reaches to the act outward , but can reach no further ; and as for heresie , schism , sedition , turbulent and quiet , as thou makes distinctions , they are all one in the ground , and you have had too many such thoughts in your hearts as that you did god service with all your whipping , cutting off ears , bearing with ropes , casting out of your assemblies , and not onely so , but out of your countrey , and banishing them from their wives and children , and all this you have done , and thinks you have done god good service , and have cast them out and said ( as the prophet spoke of your generation whose hearts were hardned ) let the lord be glorified ; these things you have to repent of before you know or will feel remission of sins from the lord , though thou say you know it belongs not to the magistrate to compel any man to be a believer , nor to punish any for not believing , but hereticks , turbulent hereticks , we believe belongs unto him to punish , and who must be judge of turbulent hereticks ; is not a heretick an unbeliever ? and if the magistrate ought not to punish an unbeliever , then not a heretick , for a heretick is an unbeliever ; and they which are in the power and authority of god , can deny such a one and judge him out by the power of god , there is his punishment according to that which thou calls gospel institution , and beyond that or any further act upon such a one , we do not read of in all that which is called the new testament , neither that christ , his apostles or any of the true churches or officers or believers ever commanded or commended or exhorted any to stretch forth their hand against the person of any who were hereticks really so , and blasphemers really so ; and therefore see there is neither command , precept nor example ; doth not thou wretchedly err in pressing on them which thou calls believers to act such wretched acts of cruelty as you have done , and thou vindicates them in it as their duty ? it 's true , we read of the beast and of the dragon , who made war against the saints and killed them , and of mystery babylon , and of sodom and egypt where christ was slain , and the witnesses slain ; now if thou wilt take these for proofs and for a ground thou may , and so all thy twisting and twining , and vain arguments falls to the ground ; and doth not the church of rome account all you as hereticks ? and is not their judgement that they ought to punish you with corporal punishment ? and is not this your judgement also page that the magistrate ought to proceed gradually ? that is , to inflict punishment by degrees with lingring tortures , like their inquisitions ; and wherein doth thy doctrine differ from theirs in this ? take them to thee and thy doctrine , for thou art but a stem sprung out of the same root , and acts from the same principle , and yet i tell thee and all the world , i am not pleading for any matter of fact or for breakers of the law which is righteous , for the law is good if a man use it lawfully , it is against murtherers , man-stealers , and stealers of the creatures , for idolaters and defrauders , and cheaters , and every act or fact deserves punishment suitable to the transgression ; now had it not been more reasonably done of thee to have produced the fact of the quakers in new england , which hath deserved all these barbarous tortures , then to declare them and publish them as offenders in matter of fact , and hath none to lay to their charge ; and i challenge thee and the rest of thy adherents to produce some matters of fact which the quakers hath done , which is contrary to any righteous law of god , or else own your condemnation and repent ; and thou must not think that this poor tract of thine which is full of deceit and confusion , errour , blasphemy and madness , though thou publish it by the appointment of the general court , that it will cover your wickedness or hide you from being discovered to moderate people , neither will shelter you in the day of the lord . and thou saith , it concerneth new england awayes to remember , that originally they are a plantation religious , the profession of purity of doctrine , worship and discipline is written upon your fore-heads , that after new england hath now shined years , should now go out in the snuff of morallianism . answ. there was something amongst some of you , but you fled the cross as i told you before , and so that spirit that persecuted you in the bishops time got up in your selves , and that which once you had while you were under affliction here , you have lost , not onely the power of godliness but the form thereof , and also of sound words ; and now as to matter of religion , its rather become a place of ostridges and owles and satyrs ; and for purity of doctrine , worship and discipline written in your fore-heads , if it must be tryed by your rule , and if it be the same years that it is now , i have not heard of more unsoundness in doctrine , worship and discipline which i have read on in many ages , but especially in the scripture , and truly your shining now is turned into blackness , and your sun is set , and your day is darkness , and your light is gone out as the snuff of a candle , because this man boasts of their doctrine , worship and discipline , take a few things out of many and behold them in the light of the lord , and compare them with the scripture ; and so i leave them to thy judgement . first speaking of the trinity , he saith , god is a distinct subsistance from the son and the spirit , and that the son is a distinct subsistance from the father and the spirit in the th page ; and because it is said , the father shall give you another comforter ; this another he saith , is intelligible of the essence ; so then the son is a distinct subsistance and essence from the father , and the spirit is a distinct subsistance and essence from the father and the son ; so here is three distinct essences . and that the spirit of god without the letter is no spirit , that which obligeth a man to obey a command of god is one power , and that which strengthens him and enables him to obey is another power , page . and that christs words in the th of john . gives an uncertain sound ( which are these , that they may be one as we are one . ) that scripture is a perfect rule of life , but not without consequences . that thomas and mary is no where mentioned in scripture , neither are commanded obedience nor forbidden disobedience , contrary to john . , , . that that light which teaches a man there is a god , and to worship god , and that parents are to be honoured , and that a man shall not lye nor steal , and that which discovers the creator his eternity and omnipotency , is to be construed in opposition to spiritual light , and contradistinct to the light of the spirit , page . that the light which is in every man , hath much miscarried whilst that it is managed by the reigning power of darkness , page . . that that which lets a man see that he should not do to others what he would not have others do unto him , and shewes a man ought not to steal nor to lye , and that which discovers eternity and omnipotency ; this indeed , saith he , is darkness , it is worse then gross darkness , page . christ enlightens no man with the light of life , but them that are so and so qualified . that the gospel is a con●●icution or effect , tempered of the grace of god and the blood of christ . that the visible political churches , political officers , political worship and administrations are gospel institutions or appointed by christ , page . that there is policy in heaven , page . pastors and teachers are political church officers . that the lords supper is a visible political ordinance , page . that baptism is a visible political church ordinance . that to christ belongs the prerogative of being the onely politician . that there is much darkness in the hearts of all children of light in this life , page . likewise at a lecture at boston john norton taught , that the justice of god is the armour of the devil . take a view of thy doctrines again , and be ashamed and blush , and repent of thy deceit and false doctrines and lying stories , and cease to pervert the way of the lord , for all this which thou hast waded through will little advantage your kingdom , neither all this covering which thou hast made will not vindicate your wicked practices , nor shelter you from the storms and thunders , and plagues , and terrour , and wrath which is to be poured upon all his enemies , and then thy order from the general court will stand thee but in little stead , when the terrour of god comes upon thee , and when the witness of god is awakened in thee to bring all thy iniquities to remembrance , and thy deceit that hath been hid to the light , then shalt thou see that thou hast not set thy self onely against man but also against god and his dear servants whom he hath redeemed by his pretious blood , who knows a habitation unto which you cannot reach with your clubs , whips and ropes , and their habitation is as the munition of rocks , their bread is sure , and their water doth not fail , and happy are they who suffer for the truths sake , for they shall receive honour and glory and immortality , and the crown of life which he hath laid up for all them that endure the cross and dispise the shame , which will be given in the day of his glorious appearance to them that keeps the word of his patience , and the word of his testimony committed to them unto the end . london , the th day of the th month , . oh ! new england whose heart is unbroken , and is as hard as a stone , thy fruits declares it , and thy iuhabitants are rebellious against god , thy teachers and people are filled with enmity against the lord and his people , and they have not known sorrow , nor are they acquainted with the lord in his judgements , but the rebellious , and stiff-necked lives in them ; and they are covered with a profession of gospel , but are as the wolves in sheeps clothing , who is covered with the saints words and practices , but are destroying the lambs of christ ; oh ! new england , what hast thou done ? how thou hast greedily run in the way that is not good , how hast thou opposed the way of thine own peace , and rejected the loving kindness of the lord , we have heard , and we have seen , and we have been sencible of thy wickedness , of thy mercilesness and thy cruelty which abounds in thee , and art without respect to god and his eternal power which is over you , though you oppose it ; yet you are comprehended with it , and it shall eternally judge you ; your church hath brought forth bad fruits , even of sodom and spiritual egypt , and in the streets is the lamb slain , and the just crucified , and ye are the people that have done it , doth not your dealing towards the people of god called quakers evidence this unto all the world ? and nations do hisse at you ; what , ye a gathered people ? what ye a seperated people ? and brings forth persecution in such a manner , exceeding the very cruelty of the scribes and pharisees , and the chief priests , this nation hath wondered at your hard heartedness , & sober people are grieved at their hearts for you , that you should so far indanger your souls to everlasting loss , as to go on in this way as you have done for years together , every day as it were heighthening your malice and your fury against the lamb and his followers ; oh you teachers and professors which hath openly appeared under the dragons ; collours , who hath warred under his banner , even the dragon which sought to devour the man-child , and by him do you make war against the lamb and his followers , with the dragons weapons , prisons , houses of correction , whippings , banishments , cutting off the ears , and such like cruel dealing , which is of the dragon his weapons , and not the weapons of the lamb ; oh what have you done , is there not a wise man among you , are you all besotted , and inchanted , are you all blind , is there none among you that considers these things , hath not your own doings pierced your hearts ? hath not the innocent blood that you have shed yet struck terrour upon your consciences ? can nothing awaken you , will not your own doings reprove you ? oh consider , for you are not hid from the eternal eye of god , it beholds you , and you are naked and bare before it ; and your filthiness and wretchedness is open before it , oh what floods of wickedness do you cast out ? and what wicked practices do you bring forth ? we are wounded in our spirits for you because you have lost all feeling and sence , and are void of understanding , your ears dull , your eyes blind , and your hearts hardned , and hath neither religion nor pure humanity ; but do you think to prevail against the lord by your doings ? do you think to weary him out from among you ? no he is stronger and his kingdom and government of more force , and though he is long suffering , yet he can dash you to pieces , and take your breath from you , and cause you to melt away , and sink you into confusion , and destruction , and his truth will prevail over you , for there is a seed which you cannot quench , there is a root which will bring forth though you choak it never so much , and in all your glory you shall wither and pine away , and your flower shall be cut down , and your strength shall become weak as water , and your authority shall sink into the bottomless pit , and there is no vision unto you of peace and prosperity in your way ; but you shall fall with no small weight of dishonour and affliction which shall be your portion , for god is just and all power is with him to break you to pieces , and he can make you know , that he can do whatsoever he will , and you are but as the pot-sheards of the earth which he will break , and his heritage shall be increased , and he will not be wanting to it , his people shall have peace when you shall have trouble , his people shall have joy when you shall have mourning , he shall appear to their joy but you shall be ashamed ; for your portion shall not be like unto theirs , but the wrath of the lamb shall torment you , even the long suffering of god , which hath been great towards you , shall be turned into a devouring fire , and into fury to consume you , this shall doubtless come to passe , for the lord hath said it ; wherefore repent ye rulers , repent ye teachers , repent ye hypocrites , and if there be any among you that will be saved , let him deliver himself by turning to the lord . but besides all that you have done , by way of persecution , imprisonment , lies and slanders , cutting off ears , banishment and whippings and such like , yet after all this here is a book come over , called the heart of new england rent filled with false reproaches , with slanders , with false doctrines , and misinterpretations o● scripture , and such like stuff , which we have taken notice of and viewed over , and returned answer ; what is this your best divinity in new england ? we have heard of your wicked practices towards the people of god , but now we have seen the wickedness of your profession , and the emptiness of your religion and doctrines , and we cannot but turn them back to you again that if possible the lord may open your eyes that you may be converted , and live ; and what do we fear your revilings and threatnings and your persecutions , in the immortal life is our victory , which life you cannot reach , for the devil hath not power given over it ; though you may have power over the body , and over the goods , yet the immortal life you cannot touch ; and that is eternal victory , and that life is our god bringing forth more and more , and he can deliver if he will , but if he will not , we cannot bow to your image ; nor say we have done you wrong in what we write and speak to you ; for this is our religion , that our conscience may be kept clear , and our zeal for god is in this , that we may keep void of offence towards god and towards you ; by warning of you from time to time , and though we are far distant in the outward man , yet we have a witness in your consciences ; and in that we know you , and by that shall be answered in the dreadful day of the lord , and that day is coming upon you , and the judgements of the lord the wicked shall not ●scape . o have you forgotten since you were sufferers your selves , and then it was well with you , far better then now ; for you are at ease in the flesh and have forgotten god , and lost that sincerity which once was in you , and the very spirit of the old bishops which once persecuted you it is entered into your hearts , and now li●es in you , and acts you , and in the dayes of your prosperity you are exalted , and have forgotten the lord , and you requite him evil for his love , and seem , to be a people given up to do wickedly till the time of your distruction , and like rulers , like teachers , all in the hard-heartedness , and in the pathes of death and destruction , your church , your ministry , your religion is all of it a weariness , and abomination to the lord , while that spirit of murder , and ●alice lodges in you ; wherefore repent , least you perissh , the day of god almighty is approaching ; the terrible day of the lord is at hand ; i am a lover of righteousness and a friend to the seed of god throughout the world , and that waits for the redemption thereof . e. bvrrovgh the end . some reasons humbly offered to the members of the house of commons, why the bill that is before them, for making people called quakers solemn affirmations in the presence of god, to be as valid and effectual in all courts and legal proceedings as swearing, they being subject to the pains of perjury, in case any of them affirms falsly. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) some reasons humbly offered to the members of the house of commons, why the bill that is before them, for making people called quakers solemn affirmations in the presence of god, to be as valid and effectual in all courts and legal proceedings as swearing, they being subject to the pains of perjury, in case any of them affirms falsly. england and wales. parliament. house of commons. sheet ([ ] p.). s.n., [london? : ] imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng oaths -- england -- early works to . quakers -- england. broadsides -- england -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion some reasons humbly offered to the members of the house of commons , why the bill that is before them , for making the people called qvakers solemn affirmations in the presence of god , to be as valid and effectual in all courts and legal proceedings as swearing , they being subject to the pains of perjury , in case any of them affirms falsly . i st . because it will be a means for the equal distribution of justice , to and among all their majesties subjects of what perswasion soever , in that none will have advantage over their fellow subjects outward estates , for their differences in matters of conscience . secondly , it will be a means for the impartial discovery of the truth in all cases of controversie , because thereby men of tender consciences , will be made capable of evidencing their knowledge in the matter depending . thirdly , the government will have the same security , and all parties concerned in suites at law , will have the same remedy upon them that evidence without swearing , as upon them that swear . fourthly , it will be a means to facilitate the work of their majesties judges , justices and commissioners , and of bringing controversies and suits to a speedy issue . fifthly , it will most effectually answer and agree with the act , which exempts dissenting protestant subjects from the penalties of certain laws , and with the king's declaration of ease to tender consciences also it is to be considered that this moderation to persons scrupling to , swear , hath had good effect in our neighbouring countries , as above one hundred years experience hath manifested . on the th day of january , . guilliaume de nassou prince of orange and statholder of holland , zealand , &c. with the consent of the governour and council , sent his mandate to the magistrates , commanding ( on behalf of the minists who refused to swear in any case ) that their yea should be accepted and taken instead of an oath , they being subject in case of falsifying the truth to the pains of perjury . in the year , prince maurice son of the former prince , with the consent of the states gave forth a placate or mandate in behalf of the said minists to the same effect , which is observed by all magistrates throughout their whole government to this day ; as appears by the act of state made this present year , . for the raising the hundreth penny in which , in that paragraph relating to the discovery of estates , next unto , the words solemn oath , are these words printed [ as concerning the minists , they shall declare with true words instead of an oath , which shall be holden of the same effect and value as a corporal oath . ] and further it appears by the warrants of assesment made by vertue of the said act , in which the same words in behalf of the minists are again rehearsed . — so that both in respect of raising taxes , carrying on suits , or determining controversies , no difficulties nor obstructions do appear by their not swearing . and we doubt not but if you please upon the consideration of the premises , to consent to the said bill , you will live to see the good effects it will have in this kingdom , and that it will tend to the service of the government , the increase of trade , furtherance of justice and tranquility of the subject . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e g. brant's history of the reformation in the low countries , part . p. , . the counterfeit christian detected; and the real quaker justified of god and scripture, reason & antiquity. against the vile forgeries, gross perversions, black slanders, plain contradictions & scurrilous language of t. hicks an anabaptist preacher, in his third dialogue between a christian and a quaker, call'd, the quaker condemned, &c. by way of an appeal to all sober people, especially those called anabaptists in and about the city of london. by a lover of truth and peace w. p. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the counterfeit christian detected; and the real quaker justified of god and scripture, reason & antiquity. against the vile forgeries, gross perversions, black slanders, plain contradictions & scurrilous language of t. hicks an anabaptist preacher, in his third dialogue between a christian and a quaker, call'd, the quaker condemned, &c. by way of an appeal to all sober people, especially those called anabaptists in and about the city of london. by a lover of truth and peace w. p. penn, william, - . , [ ] p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year . w.p. = william penn. place of publication from wing. the words "god .. antiquity." are bracketed together on title page. final leaf contains "a postscript by anothe rhand". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hicks, thomas, th cent. -- quaker condemned out of his own mouth -- early works to . society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the counterfeit christian detected ; and the real quaker justified . of god and scripture , reason & antiquity . against the vile forgeries , gross perversions , black slanders , plain contradictions & scurrilous language of t. hicks an anabaptist preacher , in his third dialogve between a christian and a quaker , call'd , the quaker condemned , &c. by way of appeal to all sober people , especially those called anabaptists in and about the city of london . by a lover of truth and peace w. p. the vile person will speak villany , and his heart will work iniquity , to practise hypocrisie , and to utter error against the lord , isa . . . but ye are forgers of lyes , ye are all physitians of no value , job . . printed in the year . reader , it was about a mon●th after the publication of t. hicks's last dialogue , ere i knew there w●s such a pamphlet in the world ; i took gr●at care to ge● it , and then us'd no less diligence to per●se it , which having done , i shall bri●fly and faithfully give thee my sense , both of the man and his work , and , i hope , sufficient proof to justifie that account . some were of the mind , our full and so●er answer to his other disingen●ous dialogues , with that remembrance we gave him of his own former dislike and reprehension of that unfair way of writing controversie , to some of his own profession in wiltshire , would have had some place with him , and influence upon him , towards a more just proceed with us for the f●ture ; that instead of a man of straw , and a fool and a knave of his own creating ( and therefore call'd by him a quaker , that he might the better entitle us to his invented error , blasphemy and immoralities , and bring us under the odium that follows ) we should have seen , if not a real contrition for the wrong done us at least , if in the wrong our selves , some arguments more fairly given , and tenderly prest , in order to reclaim us : but in lieu of a solid & edifying confutation ( were we in the wrong ) the man is become resolv'd and desperate ; without all regard to god , reason , scripture , his own credit , and the reput● of his party ( not a little weakned by his carriage ) for it seems no matter with him how black the stratagem be , provided it r●nders but the quakers and their faith detestabl● . and so remote is he from the least acknowledgment of his former miscarriages , to wit , forgeries , perversions , evasions , lyes , slanders and railings , that with regret i speak it , he has presumtuously continued & advanced in that ungodly practice , as if he would maintain on● iniquity by the doubled confidence of another ; increasing , with the number of his dialogues , the number of those impieties , for which his other two were so frequently rejected of sober and well-disposed people . now if the man be so bad , and that in his book too , how his book can be good , is beyond the skill of any man to tell us . that he deserves no better character at any good man's ●and , and that i write but the very truth of the matter , i shall proceed to manifest by such instances and evidences , as i think cannot be justly questioned of either reason or sense . reader , be but intent and impartial in thy perusal , and i desire no more at thy hands to our vindication and our adversary's utter shame . farewel . the counterfeit christian detected ; not long after tho. hicks had brought forth his first piece of fiction , being charged by several , as well those that were not of our way , as our own friends , with having made a quaker of his own ( and no wonder then that he should confute him ) he , as one concern'd to buoy up his credit above those assaults , writes the continuation , or second part , endeavouring to make appear , that he had not wrong'd us in his first . i undertook to consider them , and that in a spirit of moderation , to the people of his profession , and to him , at most , but in a way of grave rebuke of his unchristian practice . in this i represented his forgery , with many other of his unrighteous dealings towards our persons and profession . at this he fumed and raged ; and where he might safely do it , in city and country , i was a knave , and i know not how many more hard names , that both suit his envy , pred●minan● passions and sordid practice , to t●e disgrace of his religious pretences . but it has so happened , that about ● year 's time after , he has thought it requisit to give us six sheets , which are to advocate his cause , and prove to the world that i am an ●rrogant , abusive , prophan● , imperti●ent man , with abundance of the like dirt , out of his foul pit , which he loads almost every page withal . the intent of this last undertaking , is to condemn us out of our ow● mouth , and shew to the world , that we verifie what before he had charged upon us , and we so confidently denyed : but if upon examination , it shall appear , that my charges against him remain firm , and that by the assistance of this last dialogue it self , i hope , notwithstanding his high rants , mighty confidence , most positive and dogmatical say-so's , and hard and scornful names , with which he endeavours to over-bear us , he sh●ll be reputed the man we have describ'd him , and therefore unworthy of the name of christian , which he untruly gives himself in his dialogues . §. . tho. hicks proved guilty of forgery . i shall begin with an account of his title-page , and what he promises his reader there ; the quaker condemned out of his own mouth , or an answer to w. penn's book , entituled , reason against railing , and truth against fiction ; wh●rein w. p. hath confessed , that if those things objected against the quak●rs in two former dialogues be true , that then a quak●r is quite another thing then a christian . that those matt●rs heretofore objected w●re and are real t●uths , and no fictions is fully cleared and evinced in this third dialogue between a christian and a q●aker , by thomas hicks , tit. pag. that a quak●r is condemn●d out of tho. hicks's mouth , is no wonder to me ; but that he should be condemned out of his own , would be strange , ●nd is , we hope , a task too difficult for him to surmount . however , he tells us , that what things he objected against us in his former dialogues , called fictions by us , are cleared and evinced to be no fictions , but real tr●ths by him : this is either true or false ; if true , we are wrong ; if false , t. hicks is still to be reputed a forger . he that would clear himself from any charge , must be sure to take into his answer the matter of that charge , or he shuffles with his adversary , and maketh no allowable defence for himself . that this is t. hick's case , instead of condemning the quaker out of his own mouth , and consequently that he is worthy to be condemned himself for his enterprise , i shall briefly shew . i charged him at the entrance into my former book , with having answer'd his own knottiest questions in our name , with the most weak and impertinent returns he could well invent ; and in many pages there was not so much as a quotation to be seen ( a practice to be det●sted of any that have learned but the very alphabet of common honesty ) to which the man sayes nothing , yet would be thought a fair disputant , yea , a christian too , if any body will believe him . next i charged him with having given some answers , we could acknowledge ours , joyned to their proper ●uestions , unto such questions , as they were never returned to , therefore guilty of forgery , though not in making them answers at all ; yet in giving them for answers to those questions unto which they never relat●d , which is a manifest misapplication of them ; but of this neither do we hear one word . again , though what he has said in his title-page , be enough for u● , and we shall anon descend to use it , yet does not that contain or reach my question , as in honesty it ought to have done , which was this ; wheth●r those doctrines and expressions charged up●n the people called quakers , by tho. hicks in both his dialogues , be really the doctrines and sayings of that peopl● , or not ? and afterwards , whether what we own , and is by him charged with error , is sufficiently opposed or proved such ? reason against railing , p. . which , reader , takes in not only what t. h. objects against the quakers , but what he invents and answers for them , and under their name , whether it be about doctrine or practi●e . nor is this all that may be learned of t. hicks in his title-page ; for , to compleat his baseness in that very passage , observe , that as he only renders us concerned at his objections , so does he confine these words [ are real truths and no fictions ] unto them . whereas it is notorious to all that have but turned over my answer , that it was not only , nor indeed so much his objections ●gainst us , as those answers he gave for us , that i charged with fiction . but t. hicks's policy in this contrivance is not unworthy of our notice , though always of our approbation ; for this is the plain language of it , if i use not these stratagems to cloud the question , and vary the charge , i am a forger , &c. there 's no help for it ; and that discards me with all men , even those of my ●wn party ; wherefore i will so ord●r the matter , that i will only bring my self upon the * proof of my own objections , and over-look theirs . but though this goes a great way , yet this alone will not do ; for i query , dost thou intend by objections , which thou sayest i call fictions , all or some ; if but some of them , thou shouldst in honesty have said so ; if all , as thy words imply , then ha●● thou further abused us ; for my state of the question includes a grant of some of them in point of citation , though none as errors . but , reader , this is t. hicks'● fetch ( for withou● them he can do nothing against us ) if i can extend th● word forgery or fiction , as w●ll to things they do grant , a● those they deny , by some such general words , as matters objected against the quakers , &c. then by proving they acknowledge i have rightly quoted and charged them in some three or four particulars , i will clear my self from the foul imputation of forgery in all the rest . that this is the very truth it self , and therefore forgery in the abstract , let the reader know , that this has been his practice , to wit , where we have never charged forgery upon him , he has taken his opportunity , and th●● with the confidence of an innocent to cry out , is this candid to call me a forgery , when you confess the thing — then i am not guilty of forgery — this clears me from being a forger — examine these pages in his d dialogue , viz. p. , , , , , , . and mine to which he there refers , and which he pretends to answer , and thou wilt have such evidence of the truth of what i s●y to thy very sense , as must needs render my adversary's carriage worthy of thy severe censure . but as he hath attempted the proof of his innocency in this matter , by ●●aces that never reflected any such sort of guilt upon him ( therefore still the man once charged to be ) so has he wholely declined medling with that very head of forgery , under which i rancked near twenty answers , set down by him in our name , that were ●ever given by us , in either matter or form , to those or any other questions , as a demonstration of the truth of my accusation ; some of which are so very gross , that had not his envy over-powred his wits , credit with his sober neighbours would have dis-swaded him , if the apprehension of god's judgments could not have deterred him . before i produce particulars , i shall recite a passage in his second dialogue , p. . as a proof of the immeasurable confidence , as well as folly and wickedness of the man. quak. thou hast presented the world with a quaker of thine own framing , making him to speak those impertinencies and falsehood● that were never uttered by any real q●●aker ; therefore it is a forgery . g. w. epistle to d. p● . anab. you had done well ▪ if you had produced some i●st●nc●s wherein i made them speak what was never uttered by a real quaker : but if i can prove that what is spoken under that name is the language of a real quaker ; then thou hast confessed that such may be guilty of impertinencies and falshoods . but t. hicks has made them speak what was never uttered by a real quak●● , and has not so much as attempted to prove the contrary ; therefore t. hick● by his own argument is guilty of impertinencies and falshoods . this i made appear in my answer to his former dialogues ; and therein did well by his own confession ; for i produced several passages to make good my charge of forgery , unto which he is wholely silent . i shall instance in three or four of t●●m , that my reader may both perceive the spirit of the man , and see at what rate he has clear'd himself from my imputations . anabapt . is it hon●st in you to deny the scripture to be a rule to others , when at the same time you make it a rule ●o your selves ? dial. . pa● . , . q●ak . thou mistakest u● ; when we make us● of the scriptures , it is only to quiet and stop their clamours , that plead for it as their rule . anab. d● you beli●ve the scriptures to be the true sayings of god , ibid. p. , . quak. yea , so far a● they agree with the light within . anab. may i not conclud● , that the reason why you so freely rail against and reproach your oppos●rs , is only to secure your cred●t with your proselytes , ibid. p. , . q●ak . i cannot deny but that there may be something of that in it . anab. will this convince me or any other of your perf●ction ? ibid. quak. though it do not , yet thereby we shall render you so odious to our friends , that they will believe nothing that is spoken by you against us . anab. will you be so liberal of your revilings , whether your adversari●s give occasion or no ? ibid. quak. it concerns us to render them as ridiculous as we can , and to make our fri●nds believe , they do nothing but contradict themselves : and if this fail , we will insinuate something by way of qu●stion , that may be reproachful to them . anab. but doth not this signifie a very dishonest and malicious mind ? ibid. quak. we ●are not what you think , provided our friends think not so . we will give it out , that we have both answer'd and confuted our adversaries , and our friends will believe u● , which is enough to us . what a wicked and false quaker this counterfeit christian hath made to abuse true ones ? if this be not forgery , palpable forgery , and that not only against some one person , but the people in general , personated by his own mad● quak●r , there is no such thing as forgery in the world. oh you that seriously profess religion , can you away with this ? but hath he vindicated himself from these base courses , or honestly confessed them ? n●ither . how then can he justly call himself a christian , or be thought to have answered my book , that hath thus basely de●lined that part of it , which stood him most upon to disprove ? but how grosly soever he hath represented us , and how silently overlookt our charges , he wants not confidence to write after this strain ; i do affirm in seriousness , that the account i have now , and heretofore given of the quakers , is no other then the very truth , epist . p. . how serious is this man in his lying ? forge first , and then lye to prop it : impudence in grain ! for what he hath said heretofore relating to this particular , i have here briefly considered it . let us see if he be any better now ; in order to it , i have already shown you the shuffle of his title-page : i will now proceed to give you an account of his progress in this black art of forgery and base abuse . anabapt . i am not conscious of having objected any thing against you in my former dialogues , but what i am certainly perswaded to be true , p. . but is not t. hicks conscious of first making us say that we never said , & then calling it , a dialogue between a christian and a quaker ? that t. hicks was a forger , i have evidenced : that he is one still , his own words shew ; for instead of retracting , he pleads innocen●y in being so : no wonder this man can write against the light within ; whose conscience , if we will believe him , is so seared , that it feels no risings against the foulest forgeries . but let 's hear him a little further . anabapt . i am so confid●nt of the truth of those allegations , that i doubt not to avouch them , to all impartial men , ibid. we never doubted his confidence , but honesty . his allegations must either respect those passages , which he book'd , & pag'd , or else all that he alledges under the name of quaker : if the former , he is a forger still ; for more then three hundred in his first dialogue were neither book'd nor pag'd : if the latter , he tells a plain untruth ; for he has not so much as attempted to avouch them , unless it is to be understood of his co●fidence . seven instances i shall give of his continuance in forgery . i. t. hicks's first f●rgery begins with his title-pag● , and in that very passage , where he promiseth an evinc●ment of his own objections to be no fictions , but real truths ; to wit , that he doth not only content himself in making the evincement of his own objections against us ( unfairly over-looking ours ) to be all he is concern'd in , but in so many words tells the world , that i confess , if those things objected against the quakers in th● two former dialogues be true , that then a quaker is quit● another thing then a christian ; who never said or co●fessed any such thing in all my life : for i well knew , that the controversie rise higher , and went further then his meer objections ; i mean , ●o all he gave under our name ; as both the question stated , and my pursuit of it do evidently prove . so that he , to make the clearing of his own objections enough ( yet more then he can e●er do ) brings me in with a confession of a thing i never thought on , much less ever writ ; what shall i call this but forgery upon forgery ? ii. his second forgery brings me in thus : qu. if thy quotations be true , i do freely acknowl●dge , that a quaker is quite another thing then a christian , reas . against rail . p. . there is no passage so laid down by me ; my words are these , t. hicks hath given us a second part , wherein he hopes to make good , what he charged upon us in his first by quotations out of our own books ; if faithfully done , i shall freely acknowledge that a quaker is quite another thing then a christian . where it is observable , that i do not lay the hazard of a quaker's being a christian , meerly upon the truth of his quotations , but the use of and application of them , if they be faithfully done ; that is , if he can make those quotations and his charges meet against us , i shall concede ; for a quotation implies an agreement . he hoped to creep out at a few right citings , and to be over look'd all false applying and perverting by unnatural consequences to his crooked purpose . though had i said , as he sets me down , i should have no cause to fear the issue ; since if naming us may go for quoting , he has done it an hundred times , where he has directed to no particular way of knowing the truth thereof , consequently a forger ; and where he has been more punctual , i dare abide by every such one he ever made , well knowing he cannot get one letter to speak for him , but by his meer sophistry and customary wrests . iii. his third forgery in this d dialogue is thus laid down by him . he begins with an answer to the last passage he quoted for mine . anabapt . art thou well advised in what thou sayest ? p. , . quak. were we as thou representest us , the severest plagues and judgments of the eternal god we might justly expect to be our portion , reas . against rail . pag. . the stress lies here , whether this answer were ever given by me to the question 't is now made an answer to ? i say , no ; therefore a forger . next , let us see if it was ever given to a question of the like tendency ? no ; therefore the greater forger . i will set down the two passages unto which this hath been given twice for answer , that my reader may be helpt to a clearer sight of the man. in this third dialogue he queries of me : anab. art thou well advis●d in what thou sayest , in saying , if my quotations be ●rue , thou doest freely acknowledge that a quaker is quite anoth●r thing th●n a christian , dial. . p. . quak. were we as thou representest us , the severest plagues and judgments of the eternal god we might justly expect to be our portion , r. against r. p. . thus t. h. layes it down : but let us see how it is in my book . t. ● . queries , will you be so liberal of your revilings , whether your adversary give occasion or not ? he answereth for us : quak. it concerns u● to render them as ridiculous as we can , and to make our friends b●li●ve , they do nothing but contradict themselves , which is enough to us . upon which reader , i made this reflection : certainly these things shew such premeditated and willfull obstinacy , to be wicked , that w●re we what he represents us to be in this very matter ▪ the severest plagues and judgments of the eternal god we might justly expect to be our portion , &c. p. . if any said in this very matter , then not in every matter t. hicks pleaseth to wrest or twist it to : oh gross abuse ! shall this man go for a christian ? but his evil is greatly hightned , when we consider , that these words were spoken of such a passage , as to this minute he never so much a● attempted to clear from the imputation of forgery , though so charged upon him , pag. . of my answer ; because there was no quotation for it , nor in sense can be expected for so plain a fiction : and yet he makes i● a formal answer to ● question about right and wrong quotations , which were not there in question ; as if it were one and the same thing , to say , the plagues and judgments of god we might expect , &c. if so morally evil as h● brought us in spe●king our selves to be , for which he directed us to no particular proof , neither could : and to say , we might justly expect the plagues a●d judgme●ts of god , &c. if he represented us right , as to quotations about doctrines out of our own books , which was never th● question . he that can thus invent , add , diminish , and transpose , both words and sentence● , may write dialogues at pleasure , and as easily abuse the prophets and apostles , yea , christ jesus himself , as the people called quakers . iiii. his fourth forgery he makes , and that i think ●t ●o re●●●k , is this ▪ anab. but doest thou indeed believe , that those quotations in the former dialogues are forgeries ? quak. i do so , dial. . p. . this is all false : i never thought so , much less writ so ; nor was that the question , taking quotations for places cited , as to book and page . and if generally accepted by him , he brings me in denying all , which was as much beside my thoughts . thus he shuffles with me , and endeavours to delude simple people by the word quotation ( which taken strictly , does not reach the one half of those answers he made us to give ) by getting a few passages acknowledged , which he has punctually made ( though miserably perverted ) to make them believe , all given under our name , not so cited , are also allowed under the same term [ quotations . ] besides , he has not referred us for any such answer in any book i ever wrot . this , reader , is so far from proving and evincing former charges against us , that it is to multiply more fictions , and add to his other score . v. his fifth forgery is in page . and consists of two parts : the first is , the foisting in of the word only , the second of mis-placing and applying my answer , that he may the better have his ends upon me , which is but one of his many unruly reigning sins . observe , because i told him , that e. b. in saying , that was not a command to him , which was a command to another , respected not those universal and eternal precepts of fearing god , and working righteousness ( as t. h. untruly inferr'd ) but more extraordinary and particular injunctions ; such as the going of moses to pharaoh , with many more . and because i explain an other passage out of e. b. by him cited and wrested , viz. you are not dead with christ , who are yet subject to ordinances ; after this manner , e. b. pleads only against such ordina●ces , as were but shadowy , and to pass off ; he puts the adverb only , by me mentioned , in what i said to this last citation out of e. b. in my explanation of the first citation , where i never mentioned it . and that he might fasten a contradiction upon me , he omits this last citation out of e. b. mentioned in his second dialogue , and makes the answer i gave to his use of it , to belong to that which i gave to the former about commands , as if they had been but one entire answer to one and the same passage , which were really two . the advantage he hoped to gain , was this , that i should say , e. b. intended by commands , only extraordinary ones , as mos●s's going to pharoah , &c. and yet say , that e. b. only meant such ordinances as are shadowy ; if only such extraordinary , then not only such shadowy ; if only such shadowy , then not only such extraordinary ; as if they had been said of the same passage , and on the same occasion ; whereas the first was in page . of e. b's works , and the other in page . as t. hicks himself quotes them , in his second dialogue , p. , . but that which yet adds blackness to this forgery , is first , that , at what time he foisted into my explanation of the first passage , he bas●ly left out these three words [ with many more ] which were on purpose to shew i did not stint e. b's use of the word command , to the extraordin●ry ca●es , instanced in my answer . and next that , after all that premeditated injustice , he flings these stinking interrogatories at me , dost thou consult thy credit in multiplying such instances of thy inadvertency and folly ? what reason hath any man to b●lieve thee , either in what thou affirmest or denyest , that dost so apparently contradict thy s●lf ? this is not only to be bad , but brazen withall . to contradict a man's self is reproveable ; but to make contradictions in another man's name , is detestable : to commit injuries against any is ill done ; but to brave the wronged with insolent reflections must needs be a great aggravation . what think the more sober among the bap●●sts of the●e things ? vi. the sixth forgery i shall now mention is the answer t. h. makes g. w. to give in his second dialogue , pag. . the question and answer i will recite . anab. i have form●rly detected you of se●eral perniciou● error● , concerning the scriptures , light within , person of christ and resurrection , &c. what say you thereunto ? quak. i say , the plagues and judgments of god will follow thee . g. w. denies that this was ever his answer to that question , appendix , p. . though he at the same time tells t. h. he no wayes doubts the thing . t. h. that he may not lye under the charge of forg●ry , so fixt upon him by g. w. has by his legerdemain , p. . trapt in joh. gladman , to cloak his fiction , thus ; whereas g. w. denies that he said , the plagues and judgments of god would follow t. hicks , th●se may certifie , that g. w. and my self being in d●scourse about the dialogue between a christian and a quaker , he said , the plagues and judgments of god would follow t. hicks , and all that had a hand in that dialogue , or that disperst it . j. gladman , dial. p. . but the meaness of the shift aggravates the forgery : did g. w. ever deny that he had said so to j. g. or was that the question ? vain man ! or tell us , does j. gladman certifie , that g. w. said so to t. h. at what time he controversially askt him that question ? which is to come close to the question : or does he say , there ever was any such question askt him ? clear 't is , g. w. never deny'd that he had spoken those words , or to the same effects , to any body at any time , or upon any occasion ( therefore hath j. g. also manifestly wronged him in saying , whereas g. w. denies that he said , &c. this is an untruth , as is evident by g. w's own answer , appendix p. . ) and as evident it is , that the substance of this certificate goes no further then to testifie that which was never yet denied ; therefore no certificate to clear the matter objected against t.h. to wit , that he never received by word or writing any such question from t. h. much less did he ever return him any such answer ; consequently t. h. a forger still . i will briefly parallel the case : let us suppose a dispute between t. hicks a pr●destinarian , and j. ives an vniversalist , both anabaptists , about el●ction and reprobation ; and j. ives using his wits to depaint t. h's opinion to greatest disadvantage ; which t. h. looking upon as unfair , and thinking himself not to have been doctrinally , gravely and justly dealt with , as by the law of sober disputation should have been , falls upon j. ives with this rebuke , thou art an vng●dly ; vain and ca●tious man ; the judgments of god will overtake thee , if thou repent not , for thy daring opposition to the gospel , and unfair dealing with me j. ives immediately writes a dialogue ; the first question suppose to be this . j. ives . what dost thou say , t. h. to those gross and blasphemous absurdities i charged thy narrow and ill-natured opinion with ; of damning men unconditionally from all eternity to glorifie god , thereby rendring god more cruel then m●n and beasts , that naturally take care of their off-sprin● representing him partial and double-minded , as having a reveal●d will that speaks of his desire that all should be saved , and a secret will notwithstanding that damns far the great●st part , whether they obey or rebel ? with much more of the like cruel and black aspect . i suppose , thou hast considered them well ; hast thou any reasons to offer in countenance and defence of this horrid opinion ? what sayest thou ? t. hicks is made by j. ives to answer thus : t. h. i say , thou art an vngodly , vain an● captious man ; the judgments of god will overtake thee , if thou repent not , for thy daring opposition to the gospel , and unfair dealing with me . now , i would ask t. hicks , if he thinks this reflection , by him given upon the supposed disingenuous carriage of j. ives , to be a proper and suitable answer for j. iv●s to give in his name to a doctrinal question , unto which , it was never given as an answer ? if not , how injuriously has he dealt with g. w ? are our rebukes of t. hicks's unrighteous and prophane carriage in his dialogues , the only reasons we are able to render in defence of our belief , or against his doctrinal objections ? or may a man honestly take another's answer , and give it to his own question , however impertinent , and that in the other man's name , with design to render him so ? if not , then certainly t. h. has not acted the christian , but the counterfeit with us : and god will require this wickedness at the church's hand to which he relates , if they indulge or connive at it . vii . his seventh forgery , and the last which i will now stand to mention , is ●●is , and i intreat my readers attention ; for he or i must needs be very guilty . in his second dialogue pag. . he thus brings me in : anab. be free and plain with me , how and in what respect is christ said to fulfil the law , and to dye for sinners . quak. he fulfil'd the law onely as our pattern or example . christ is so far from telling us of ●uch a way of being justified , as that he informs us the reason why he abode in his father's love , was his obedience : he is so far from telling us of being justified by virtue of his obedience imputed , that unless we keep his commands and obey for our selves ; in all which christ is but our example , pen. sand. found . shak . pag. . to this , reader , i return'd two pages of answer , in defence of my book , and to detect his forgery , some of which he hath ventured to give , but with his wonted disingenuity perverted : let us hear him patiently . anab. but for as much as thou seemest to grant that christs death was in the nature of a sacrifice , how will this a●ree with what thou hast formerly asserted ? viz. that christ fulfill'd the law , onely as our pattern or example , dial . pag. . qu●k . in this quotation thou hast done exactly like thy self ; for if thou canst find the word onely there , or such an answer to such a question , thou hast not wronged me ; but sure i am , there is no such question , and as sure , the fulfilling of the law was not the subject treated on , and very certain , the word onely was not there ; therefore thou art a forg●r . that which i said , with the scripture on which it was grounded , was this : if ye keep my commandments , ye shall abide in my love , &c. reas . against rail . pag. . sand. fou●d . p. . anab. h●re it is hard to say , whether thy dishonesty or impudenc● be the greater ; for in this answer thou are guilty of no l●ss then three notorious vntru●hs : first thou insinuatest , as if the text above named were the only text from which thou didst argue in thy sand. found . pag. . dly , thou art sure , the fulfilling of the law was not the subject treated on there . dly , thou art very certain , the word only is not there : thus hast thou aggravat●d thy wickedness in adding lye unto lye , and all this knowingly , dial. . p. , . 't is now time for me to speak ; and i beseech thee , reader , hear me ; for it is of great moment to determine who is the forger , who is the lyar ; t. h. or w. p. first , he suggests by this question , is christ's death was in the nature of a sacrifice , as thou sayest , how will this agree with thy former assertion , that christ fulfill'd the law , only as our pattern , as if the death and suff●rings of christ , as a propitiation to declare god's righteousness for the forgiveness of sins that are past , upon repentance , had been part of that doctrine in that part of my book , unto which those w●●●s relate , viz. christ fu●fi●●●d the law as our pattern , ●●ich really was no part of that doctrine , as may be seen pag. , . for because we assert him to have been our example in fulfilling the righteousness of the moral law , t. h. would conclude from my words , that he was only our example in ending types , shadows , sacrifices , propitiations , &c. of the law ; therefore great forgery in him , to make me answer two questions , the one in pag. . of his second dialogue ; the other in in pag. of his last dialogue , which take in the death & sufferings of christ , that wholely related to but some part of the personal obedience of his life . i cannot forbear one instance more of his foul miscarriage in this particular , viz. anab. are we no further concern'd in the obedience and sufferings of our lord jesus without us , then only as our example or patttern ? quack . what more wouldst thou have ? i have told thee , that christ fulfilled the law ; but only as our example . where there is nothing clearer then that he thrusts the sufferings of christ into the question , which was no part of the question , making me to deny the benefit thereof , because i assert him to be only our example in that which is our daily duty unto acceptance with god ; not in being a sacrifice for sin. is this not to be guilty of fiction ? or is this to describe a real quaker , and act the part of a true christian ? oh hateful injuries ! but dly , in his quotation of my answer he hath omitted two pass●ges ; for when i said , if he can find such an answer to such a question he has not wronged me , i placed the●e words between , which he dropped , viz. or the m●●ter strictly contained in that question , which i knew he could never compass , because his question was , in what r●spect christ dyed for sinners ; and the answer he made me give , truly related to the fulfilling filling of the righteousness of the law in our selves . oh injurious man ! is this the christian ? his next omission is this part of my answer , which followed from my argument ( by him cited for proof of his charge ) upon john . . if you keep my commandments , &c. now ( ●aid i ) that this concern'd not the whole law christ came to fulfill ; the whole law he fulfil'd , the plac● of scripture quoted , the nature and mat●er of the argument clearly prove . again , he was our example in holiness , ●hough not in his ending of types & shadows , reas . against rail . pag. . which passages r●ader , plainly evidence , that if ever those words were spoken by me , they never extended to christ's being but our example in the fulfilling of the whole law , which t. hicks by his sophistry would insinuate . for answer to his three notorious vntruths he chargeth on me , take what follows . . he sayes i insinuate as if john . . were the only text from whence i argued in my sand. found , pag. . which , reader , is so far from truth , that i only charg'd him with having argued from that text in which no such word or matter was to be found , which he denies . dly , he says , that i am sure the fulfilling of the law was not the subject treated on there ; and that i know therein i have spoken falsly . but sure i am he hath told two tales in charging one upon me : for first , how could the law , as he understands it , to wit , the whole law that christ came to fulfil , be intended , when the very text & argument upon it , shew , that it was the keeping of christ's comman●ments , that they might abide in his love , and without which they could not be accepted ; that was insisted on . dly , he tells an vntruth in charging me with th● knowledge of that which was not : but as he declined ●his scripture , so the arguments by which i proved the impossibility of christ's keeping his own commandements in our stead , with which i made good my conclusion , viz. the necessity of keeping his commandments as he kept his father's , in order to acceptance with him . dly , he sayes , i am certain , the word only is not there , and so add lye unto lye knowingly ; which , reader , makes other two vntruths on my adversary's part : for first , there is no such word in all that argument and paragraph out of which he made his citation , as may appear sand. found . shak. pag. . argum. . dial. . pag. . reas . against rail . pag. . dly , his saying , i should know of a thing that never was , makes up his other falshood : but to the end he may acquaint all men with my folly and madness , as he is pleased to term his own horrible fiction , he tells me , that he referred in his citation not to john . . but rom. . . not the hearers of the law are just before god , but the doers of the law shall be justifi●d . but do men use to refer to places they never cite , either as to words , chapter or verse ; for they are not mentioned in his former dialogues : how then did he refer to them ? if he sayes , it was to my argument , i make the same demand . do men refer to argumen●s they never mention ? if to those they do mention , then i can easily prove , it was not this scripture or argument upon it , that t. hicks referred to ▪ reader , peruse sand , found . p. . arg. . dial . p. . reas . against rail . p. , . and thou shalt see his palpable untruth . but becau●e he builds here upon this argument , l●t's bear it : unless we be doers of the law , which chri●t came not to destroy , but as our example , to fulfill , we can never be just before god : let not any fancy , that christ hath so fulfill'd it for them , as to exclude their obedience , from being requisite to their acceptance , but onely as their pattern . here only is mentioned : but first , this was not the place cited , but another that had it not , as before exprest ; therefore i no lyar , but t. hicks a forger . dly , this law mention'd rom. . . was the moral & eternal law of god , & not that shadowy law containing ceremonies , sacrifices , propitiatories , meats , drinks , and d●vers washings , &c. which christ by his life , death and sufferings fulfill'd and ended , in which t. h. would make me say , that christ was onely our example : that it was not the whole jewish law , the two next verses prove ; for when the gentiles which have not the law , do the things contained in the law , these having not the law , are a law unto themselves , which shew the work of the law written in their hearts : therefore not the whole jewish law , for that they had not ; consequently , i do not contradict or make void the benefit of christ's death and sufferings , by saying , he was only our example in keeping that law which the best jews and gentiles were to keep and kept , and the righteousness of which is to be fulfill'd in us . thus hath he unworthily added , diminished , mis-rendred , transposed , &c. from time to time . certainly , the people call'd anabaptists , are deeply co●cern'd to reckon with him for this great scandal to their profession . but suppose i meant the whole law of god in that place , i see no worse consequence from my words then this , that so far as man's obedience to god's law is requisite to his acceptance , so far only christ became our example : for as he was not our pattern in things that more peculiarly related to him to perform and finish ; so was he no more then our pattern in that which is our constant duty to do . now let t. h. snap and catch what he can , with all his leg●rdemains , pag. . only take this along with him , that by his reflection upon that argument , viz. that christ hath not so fulfilled the law for us , as to exclude our obedience from being requisite to our acceptance , he implies a denyal of the n●cessity of obeying the law of god to acceptance with god ; a doctrine suited to his practice , contrived and continued to the ease of hypocrites ▪ no wonder he struggles so hard for it ; for without it nothing but horror would surround him , though at this rate he must not alwayes expect to escape the blow ( i mean not , assassinating of him ) a trick that lives nearer his complexion then mine , but that vengeance which is the recompence of every soul that loveth and maketh a lye. with you ▪ the people called anabaptists , i leave this section ; right us , right your selves ; right our profession of such an unfair adversary , and your selves of so scandalous an advocate . § ii. that t. hicks has grosly perverted our writings . to forge is bad , but to pervert may in a sen●e be worse ; since it is to mis-use true words , and by disguise twist them to a sense never intended , when many times that which is false it undiscernably swallowed for the sake of something that 's true . this was another charge i exhibited again●t t. hicks , and an argument by which i proved him no christian . i frequently in my book took occasion to detect him of this unworthy practice and more especially by instances under a distinct head , containing ten page● , our principles in one column , and his perversions , in another ; but he seems dumb to the charge . shall i enter him mute ? that may alter , but not excuse the punishment ( ass●ssinating always excepted . ) i shall , reader , for thy sake and the truth 's , produce some of them , that those to whom this may come , may have some account of his carriage in his former dialogues . i. from our belief of the light 's sufficiency to save , he infers , that all other means are needless , dial. . p. , . not considering it was not the light 's insufficiency , but man's weakness , that occasion'd them . he might object insufficiency as well against god , christ , spirit , grace , &c. ii. from our making the illumination in man to be a natural emanation or product of the divine word which made all things , he wickedly turns it to an effect of god's power , and so sayes , we would make beasts and trees , &c. also divine , ibid. p. . iii. from our asserting that the light of christ shineth within the hearts of wicked as well as good men , he tells people ( in our name ) that he is in the heart of every wicked man , as he is in his saints , cont. p. , . though through rebellion they partake not of his life , power , &c. iv. from our affirming , that god is the teacher of his ●eople , he infers , that we deny all ministry and visible worship , though they stand in god's power and spirit , dial. p. , . v. from our believing christ to be in his people , according to express scripture , and that as such he is crucified by wicked men , he infers , that we deny christ to be as well without as within ; or that he was ever crucified in the flesh , dial. p. . contin . pag. , , . vi. from our denying of their rigid satisfaction , that is , that christ was punished by his father for our sin ; and that sins past , present and to come , are answered for : and that men may be holy by virtue thereof , though not new , but old creatures , and so unholy in themselves , he unworthily concludes , that we disown christ's death and sufferings , as a propitiation , that it carried away sins past , and sealed remission in his blood to as many as believe : and that we expect to be both forgiven and accepted , not for christ's sake , nor in his sacrifice & righteoussness , but our own works , dial. p. , . contin . , , , , , . vii . from our pleading for a perfection from sin , and the duty of growing to the fulness of the measure , &c. he infers , our denyal of perfection in degrees , and our belief of as high a degree of perfection in this world , as hereafter , dial. pag. , , , . viii . because we say , that such works as are wrought by the holy spirit in us , are necessary to eternal life , and may in a sense be said to obtain it , since the lord hath ●o freely offered it upon the condition of believing and ●being , which are the fruits of the spirit of god in man ; t. hicks suggests in our name , that we exp●ct to merit ●ternal life by our good works , and those of our own working , as the spider weaves his webb out of his own bowels , dial. pag. . contin . pag. , . ix . because we say , all spiritual liberty stands in god's power ( that redeems from sathan's snares ) he inferreth , that who are not of our way , should have no liberty , cont. pag. . x. because we say , the scriptures are not the great gospel - rule , but the spirit ; the dispensation of the spirit being that of the gospel more peculiarly ; and that without it we cannot understand , or savingly believe any thing declared of in the scripture , and therefore that it is our rule for believing the scriptures them selves ; he basely suggests , that the quakers cast off al● precepts in the scriptures ; and so will not bring their cheats and impostures to the test thereof , counting them of no more authority then esop's fables , dial. . p. , , , , , , , , , , , . contin . epist . to the reader . behold your anabaptist-preacher ! xi . from our preaching men to a lost god and christ , that is , to god and christ whom they have lost fellowship with , he perverts it to our believing , that god and christ were in a lost or undone condition , cont. p. . xii . from our asserting , that what was a command to any servant of god in old time , is not so to us , because so to them , that is , such as moses's going to pharoah , the performance of types , shadows and figur●s appointed for a season , and to pass off , unless requir'd by the same spirit anew , he falsly infers , that those moral and eternal precepts , thou shalt have no other god but me , thou shalt not murder , commit adultery , steal , bare false witness , &c. are not binding upon us , but that we give our selves the liberty of such horrid principles , as the contrary to those principl●s , and are therefore incosistent with government , contin . pag. , . who would have expected this from a profest baptist and preacher too ? xiii . from our denying the resurrection of the natural corruptible body , leaving it with the lord to give us a body as pleaseth him , as cor. . , , . this caviller endeavours to possess people with our denyal of the resurrection of any body to life eternal , however spiritual or glorified , dial. . p. . to . and lastly , from our asserting the unity of god and the soul , and denyal of his carnal resurrection ; he concludes , that the soul is part of god , a●d that no future rewards or punishments are to be expected , dial. . p. , . these reader , are some of the many perversions this ungodly man is guilty of against our principles . is this to condemn the quaker out of his own mouth , and to evince his objections against him to be real truths ? is not counterfeit a name good enough for him that has thus counterfeited a quaker an● a christian too ? will this bring honour to his brethren ? or can it be consistent with their credit , to encourage such base attempts , when but a midling heathen would have abhorred to have been the actor of half that injury t. h. hath not only committed , but continues in , and boasts of . and that he has betaken himself to no better refuge from the pursuit of our arguments , notwithstanding the cautions of our former book , i shall in a few instances make evidently appear to all that dare trust , and will but impartially use their eyes ? . from my saying , that those that crucified christ were admirers of the scriptures , and pretended out of their own law , that it was both lawful and necessary he should be put to death : whereas , had they brought that deed to the light , the light would have shown it not to have been wrought in god ; which the scriptures without the light could not effectually do : he makes no cons●ience of inferring , that i intimate an insufficiency in the scriptures to convince the jews that murder was a sin , dial. . p. . whereas the question was not , whether murder was a sin ; but whether the jews thought that murder , by the scripture : if they did , give us an instance ; if they did not , then i have the end of my allusion , to wit , if the scriptures are not therefore insufficient in t. h's account , because the jews were not convinced by them of murder ; neither ought the light within to be reputed insufficient , because men were not convinced of their unbelief in christ by it . i will answer him in setting down his own words to me : o impious man ! sayes he : the defect was not in the scriptures , but in themselves , in not attending what was therein delivered , wherein murder is peremptorily forbidden . right ; but , o impious man ! say i , the defect was not in the light , but themselves , in not attending to it , whereby murder is also forbidden . how much more sufficient now , t. h. is the scripture then the light ? vain shuffler ! but this is not all his perversion ; for he further infers in my name , that the scriptures did rather countenance and justifie , then condemn them in that fact , dial. . p. . which , reader , in plain terms , is as much as to say , because the scriptures do not so effectually discover evil conceptions as the light within ; therefore the scriptures rather countenance and justifie them : monstrous baseness ! the truth is , were his endeavours against us but well weighed of all that see them , there were little need of our labour in his discovery , or our own defence . but that which aggravates his sin , is the hard words he gives me after all ; i know not why , unless to cover his own guilt , or make his credulous reader think me as hateful as he would have me . . the second perversion i shall instance , is this : because i told him ( in answer to his objection about the light 's insufficiency , for it s not discovering to the heathen-philosophers how sin came into the world ) if he meant by that discovery , a clear and distinct account and particular history , how adam and eve were beguiled by the serpent , it was nowayes to his purpose ( unless he can prove the knowledge of it absolutely necessary to salvation ) he , according to his usual baseness , makes me to say , the penning of that history was to no purpos● , dial. . p. . thus interrogating of me , wilt thou dare to say , the knowledge of this is to no purpose ? why then did sacred penmen give such full account thereof ? as if it were one and the same thing for me to say , the penning of that history is to no purpose , and to say , it is not to t. hicks 's purpose . is this the way to prove the quaker no christian ? but since this full account is made such a great instance by t. h. for the sufficiency of the scripture , and insufficiency of the light , let him tell me , what paradise adam was put in ; and where it was ? what was that serpent that tempted eve ; a fallen spirit , or a beast of the field ? and what was that fruit and tree god forbad , and the serpent tempted the woman to eat of ? and what was the voice adam heard in the garden ? what were those fig-leaves he covered himself withall ? and what was that death that he dyed ? and what were those cherubims and the flaming sword and the tree of lif● , all mentioned in that history ? if he takes the account literally , let him say so ; but let him take this with him , that then adam bodily dyed , before he begot his sons and daughters ; and the history gives us no account of his corporal resurrection : but if he take the account in whole or in part mystically , then how is it full , clear and distinct , not distinguishing literal & natural from mystical and spiritual things ? is this the way to prove the insufficiency of the light within , that sends all people to the light within for a sufficient account , which sayes dr. henry moor of cambridge , spoke in and reproved adam for his lapse from god , philosoph . cab. p. . however it be , this lies at t h's door , that because i said , his instance of moses's writing was nothing to his purpose , he makes me to conclude , they were writ to no purpose . if he loved his soul , he would hate these courses , that need no aggravation , their own infamy is enough . . again , from my acknowledging that the scripture furnisheth me with the knowledge ●f christ's visible transactions ; he infers thus , which is as if thou shouldst say , god manifeste● 〈◊〉 lesh c●uld not have been known by thee , were it not revealed in the scriptures , intimating , thou couldst never have known it , but by the meer light in thee , dial. . p. , . which intimates , that thomas hicks is an arrant perverter of my sen●e . is there no difference between saying , i was informed of a certain passage by a. b. and saying , it was impossible i should have known it any other way then by a. b. but why all this wre●●ing ? is it to conclude , therefore the light within is insufficient ? which may as well be inferred against god , christ and the holy spirit ; for he makes me to exclude all other wayes of di●covery , the● what is made by scripture . if an account be wanting , the light of christ is as sufficient now , as it was in the time of moses and the prophets , who wrot both of things past and to come : but a relation being with us , the light of christ doth n●thing unnecessarily . but 't is like t. h. degenerates not from his ancestors ; he can cry , come down and save thy self , &c. . from our asserting the works of the spirit in us necessary to our compleat justification or acceptance with god , he insinuates , our making those works the meritorious cause of our salvation , dial. . p. . which is manifestly denyed and rejected by me , in my answer , p. , , , , . whi●h he no more regards , then if it never were : the trick of an unfair and shuffling adversary . . from my asserting the necessity of an inward work of righteousnes● , by the power of christ in these words of the apostles to the galatians , let every man prove his own work , & then shall he have rejoycing in himself , and not in another : he , to make his ends upon me , infers , that the doctrine of christ dying for sinners , hath nothing in it , as the ground of our rejoycing : for our rejoycing must be in our selves , not in another , dial. . p. , . that , reader , which aggravates this wretched consequence by him , charged upon me , is first , that he sayes , it is plainly deducible , which is so plain a wrest : and next , that they are the apostle's words , and not mine , of which he makes so ill an use . is this to make the scripture his rule , that is so unruly in his abuse of them ? i am sure , a lying and an abusive spirit has been his rule throughout his three dialogues , which god rebuke . . the sixth perversion is as follows : being formerly assaulted by t. hicks , cont. p. . for having said in a book entituled , the serious apology , &c. p. . that justification by a righteousness wholy without us , is a doctrine of divels ; i undertook my defence , and performed it in my answer to his other dialogues , from p. . to p. . i distinguished upon the word justification , first as it might be taken barely for the remission of si●s , or the acquitting men of the guilt and punishment due to sin , which was the free love and mercy of god upon repentance ( d●clared in christ's death , as a prop●tiation for the sins of the whole world ) and therefore not to be merited by the best works we can perform , dly , as it imported a being made inwardly just by the bringing in of christ's everlasting righteousness to the soul. to leave out this latter , and make the former only sufficient ( whereby men are left in an unjust and unrighteous state ) i affirmed to be a doctrine of devils . but notwithstanding this plain and scriptural distinction to satisfie t. hicks ( would he but be satisfied ) what i meant by justification ; he is so unjust to me , as to infer in my name , that i account the doctrine of christ's death in the nature of a sacrifice , to declare the righteousness of god , for the remission of sins that are past ( because transacted without us ) a doctrine of devils , dial. . p. , , . canst thou , reader , in earnest think , this man makes conscience of his endeavours against us , who commits these frequent abuses against our books , persons and principles ? as if because i acknowledged christ's death to be in the nature of a sacrifice , to declare god's righteousness , in the remission of sins that are past , unto them that believe , &c. to be one part of justification ; & that this transaction was confessedly , without us , even while we were sinners , &c. that therefore , i should call this the doctrine of devils , because without us , though the word wholy be not there , upon which lay the stress , and which was only said by me of a justification , that wholy excludes christ's righteousness revealed within , to the making man just ; unworthily applying that reflection to the begin●ing of justification , that i have so expresly owned , which was made against a doctrine no wayes concern'd in this true and gospel-justification . in short , if justification by christ's righteousness without us , be the same , with being justified by christ's righteousness wholy without us ; then t. h. is not so bad a man , as i have represented him : but if there be any difference , as undeniably there is , a●d a material one too ; then t. h's inference and con●lu●ion in my name , make a foul perversion . . the last perve●sion i at this time think fit to mention , is his last , both in his epistle and book , to wit , from my saying , upon a sad conside●ation of his many miscarriages towards us , that his head sh●uld not go down into the grave in p●ace ; he thus interprets my words : i must take them either as a prediction , or as a menace of some mischief , he himself , or s●me influenced by him intend to perpetrate upon me : the former i fear not , the latter is most probable ; as if reader , his not fearing a prediction , implies my not meaning a prediction . but why is the former not feared , & the latt●● more probabl● ? because he would render me a murder●r , as his following words sufficiently evidence . wherefore , sayes he , i desire all to whom this book may come , that if at any time they hear of any violence offered me , or that i be assassinated , they would remember these words of w. penn. that my head shall not go down to the grave in peace , epist . book end. now though this miserable construction be ridiculous with wise men , and rejected of several of his own way , and so unlikely a thing in it self , that i should proclaim that to be my design that leads to t●e gibbit , viz. murder ; yet i was unwilling to pass it by , since first , it rather renders him to be the m●n he suggests me to be : and secondly , it aggravates the sin of his false constru●tion ; because to insinuate it the better , he has left out all these words going before an● afte● , that had they been mentione● , wo●ld have detected his malice , viz. though thou hast best●w●d much time to abuse our friends in general , a●d my self in particular , a stranger to thee , yet i can forgive thee : oh , that these heavy things might not be laid to thy charge ! god will visit for these vnrighteous dealings , if thou desist not . now , reader , if i forgive , how can i assassinate ? and if it be god's visiting hand , how can it be mine , or any influenced by me ? again , these following words were the next to those by him cited , viz. yea the light within will bear witness to the truth of these things on thy dying-bed , and then remember me . how comes this t. h. to be omitted ? dying-beds do not use to be unnatural deaths ; nor will the light within bear vvitness for murder : was all this left out to evince , that the fictions i charged upon thee , were real truths & no fictions ; & that a quaker is quite another thing then a christian ? because it is his honour to be quite another thing then such a christian as thou art , that is , a very counterfeit . reader , does not thy soul rise against these abominable practices ? falseness was ever hateful to truth , and baseness to an honest mind , which t. h. being proved thus guilty of , i must conclude him quite another thing then a christian . thus have i finished my observations on his perversions , leaving them also with the people called anabaptists , upon whom i cannot chuse , but frequently call for justice against this their unjust member ; concluding my complaint in this section , in honest john husse's against the like adversaries , on the same occasion : some of these propositions i did write and publish , other some mine enemy did feign , now adding , then diminishing and taking away , now falsly ascribing and imputing the whole proposition unto me . § iii. t. h. proved guilty of lyes and slanders . reader , in my answer to his former dialogues , i charg'd him with eighten lyes and slanders under a distinct head , pag. , , . of which i find not that he hath taken any notice , saving two by way of further affirmation , but no proof . a few i shall mention to his utter shame with all men loving religion . st , that the quakers owning of christ jesus , and the christ they own , are a meer mystical romance , dial. p. . cont. pag. . a prophane untruth ! . that the light in the quakers see● no necessity of a mediator , dial. p. . when , god knows , we feel the daily benefit of him . . that the quakers account the blood of christ no more then they do the blood of a common thief , ibid. p. . an ungodly aspersion . . that we deny his visible coming and appearance in the world , cont. p. . this he contradicts else-where . . that the quakers dissemble when they tell people they own the scriptures ; and that they render them of no more authority then esop's fables , cont. epist . both abominable untruths . . that a quaker should say , the thing that troubles t●ee is thy puzling thy self in that book the bible , thou wilt never be setled till thou throw that book away , cont. pag. . an arrant slander . . that a quaker should say to one j nobbs ; what d●est thou tell me of the scriptures , they are no more to me t●en an old aimanak [ whereas j. nobbs , if he be alive , and have but a little more honesty then t. h can't but confess that he was no quaker ; nor that there was one so call'd in that country , when any thing like those words were spoken ] as t. holbrow , the person charg'd by j. n. related it to me the last summer , dial. . that the quakers appoint their ministers to speak in such a place , and at such a time : and they go to meetings only to decoy , trapan & inviegle , cont. pag. . . that a woman-quaker should bid her husband take another woman , ibid. pag. . . that the motions of god's spirit are pretended by quakers , at least one of them , to refuse just debts , cont. pag. . what man that makes conscience of lying , would have told so many gross vntruths ; and that cared for his own reputation , would have pass'd over their proof in such silence ? either he thinks it no sin to render men hereticks & knaves at pleasure ; or that there is no obligation upon him to maintain ●is foul imputations . but let see how much better he is grown since his second dialogue . . the first great lye he tells in his new book , is the very first sentence that is writ in it , viz. the quaker condemned out of his own mouth : for it is his foul mouth that hath both accused and condemn'd him ; as we have already prov'd , and shall yet have further occasion to do . . his second vntruth is in the fourth page of his epistle , viz. that there was a person esteem'd by the quakers a friend , of whom w. penn gave this character , that he might be trust●d with one's life ( not withstand●ng w. penn 's infallible jud●ment ) co●n●erfeited ( like an vngrateful and vnworthy wretch ) w. penn 's hand , took up a considerable sum of money in his name ( pretending for his use ) which w. penn in a little time found ( though to his cost ) to be a meer cheat. reader , he hath put the quaker in this man's livery , that he might have the fairer plea for abusing him . vngrateful and vnworthy wretch , are words not so much flung at the fact or the man , as the quaker : for , were it the temper of thomas hicks to be grateful and worthy to them that obliege him , he would never be injurious to them , that never hurt him . but , be that as it will , i have three things to say to t. hicks : st , that this man was never a quaker , unless such as sometimes come to t. hicks's meeting are to be reputed anabaptists , having never come under any of those external significations , by which they are differ'd from other people ; and i think i ought to be believ'd before t. h. that knew him , and perhaps he never saw him . dly , if he were an vnworthy wretch for counterfeiting my hand in money matters ; how much more vnworthy a wretch is t. hicks who hath counterfeited the faith , doctrine and practice of a great body of people to the rendering them infamous with all men , were that work as really believed , as it was enviously contrived . dly , but for all my infallible judgment , i was cheated , sayes t. h. how plentiful , reader , are the instances t. h. gives us , to detect him : for besides the baseness of his taunt , he inferreth from our asserting an infallibility in the principle , our arrogating an infallibility to all our persons , as well in civil as religious concerns , whether we obey it , or no. but to turn it back upon himself : have no anabaptists been cheated , notwithstanding they pretend the scriptures to be their infallible rule ? if they have , shall i make one of t. h's conclusions ? viz. that they are infallible , because they have an infallible rule ; or that the rule is fall●ble , because they are fallible themselves ? or in case of being cheated , should we tauntingly say , where is your infallble judgment , because you say , you have an infallible rule ? . i charge him with slandering our friends , in saying , that when it hath been demonstrated ●o them wherein ( he thinks ) i have erred , what dost thou tell us of w. penn ; he is an heady , rash youngman , we take no notice what he saith — yet acquaint them with the like extravagancies in the writings of the former , g. f. &c. they will either peremptorily deny them so written , or else tell us , we understand not their meaning , epist . pag. . this let him prove if he can . . that the quakers excuse some of of their villanies , by pretences to the innocent life . this we esteem an abominable falshood , dial. epist . . the next slander is , that the quakers warn their proselytes against reading their adversaries books , lest their wickedness should be detected , p. . a very falshood . . that w. penn by the sense of the eternal spirit doth declare , that cursing , railing and lying were the only fit answers to be given to the priests trapanning questions , pag. , , , . oh ungodly slanderer ! the lord rebuke thy foul spirit . that the quakers have discovered themselves to be no other then the spawn of that wicked brood , the ranters , having lick'd up their vomit , pag. . what say the baptists to this ? it is known , none so opposed them . . the quakers say , they witness innocent and sober enquirers after their faith and religion to be beasts , sots , in the sorcery and witchcraft , pag. . which manifest slander i suppo●e , proceeds from certain names , e●w . burrough gave to a priest that by subtil queries endeavoured to trapan some of our friends , as they of old , our lord & master , under the censure of blasphemy , and as was attempted upon some about that very time : so that he was an innoc●nt , and sober enquirer , by the same figure that t. hicks hath been an innocent and sober dialoguer , who first invents lyes , and then kicks them up and down for our principles and practices . . another notorious falshood committed by t. h. against us , is in pag. . to wit , that some overtures have of late been offered to the quakers , in order to a publick meeting , to debate the chief things in diff●rence betwixt them and others ; which the q●akers refused , under pretence of being cau●ious not to run themselves voluntarily into jeopardies , and therefore think it their best way to rail at their adv●rsaries . it is to be hoped t. h. by this time hath suff●ciently shewed and vented his falsehoods and slanders by the frequency of them ; and that for the future they will less need our animadversion . that this is one , and a great one too , take what follows . w. hayworth , an empty , but hot-headed preacher among the professors at hartford , often making a kind of challenge to some of our friends to meet with any of their teachers ; and being answered that they would not refuse him a meeting , he proceeded thereon , and propo●ed ware for the place ; against which the scruple was made , and not about a meeting , as t. h. falsly relates : this our friends answers to w. hayworth prove . in th. prior's first answer to w. h. it is said , i perc●ive they ( the quakers ) are not intended to refuse thee a meeting , at a convenient time and place agreed on by both parties ; and it is expected and intend●d , the book authorized by thee , styl'd , the quaker converted , be th● subject of the dispute . and in the second paper to w. hayworth , it is proposed , that the meeting be at theobald 's ; and that after the said book be fully discoursed , if he had not disputing enough , such other questions as tend to edification be propounded , and a further time taken to discourse them : but he would nowayes con●ent that his book should be the subject ; saying in his letter , that to undertake it would narrow the debate . judge now reader , who evaded the meeting ; and if t. hicks hath not falsly accused the quak●r with refusing it : yet doth he rant , revile & add lye unto lye in that very page where he told this , that he might make the most of his fancied advantage against us , to our disgrace , and his own tryumph . but he shall fail in his endeavours , and god will advocate our cause among men , against these foul and provoking imputatio●s . one slander more , and we end this section . . that the tendency of all the quakers reasoning about instituted religion , is to debauch mankind , to teach them how to live in rebellion against god. their religion is a meer cheat , calculated only to the service of the devil and their own lusts , and inconsistent with government , dial. . pag. . dial. . p. . here is a great deal in a little ; all at once : this shews what the man would be at , and makes good what elsewhere he saith , that we are inconsistent with government , cont. pag. . the consequence is plain ; a new-england antidote , to rid old-england of the epidemical disease of quakerism : for it is a maxim in law , that whosoever is inconsistent with government , deserves not the protection of government . but that this language should drop from the pen of an anabaptist to a quaker , is justly surprizing ; since a multitude of his profession stand charg'd on record with so many gross immoralities , erroneous doctrines , and rebel●ious practices , as have rendred them and their profession , the suspicion of the weak , the abhorrence of the multitude ▪ and at best the dislike of many good men : but though t. h. hath invented crimes to blacken us , i shall not so much , as recriminate the people that go under t●at name , having abundance more of charity for them then the softest passage in t. h's dialogue can afford us . i am well satisfied , that i have thus far honestly represented him in his inventions , perversions , slanders and aggravations ; so inconsistent with the spirit , language and carriage of a true christian ; and therefore his pretence of being such , renders him b●t the geater counterfeit . §. iv. that t. hicks , is guilty of plain contradictions . it is inconsistent with the credit of any man that writes , to contradict himself : but for one who pretends himself a christian , so to do , and that in matters of religion , is shamefully to make void his own pretences . that t. hicks is the man , i produced several in my answer to his former dialogues ; but they were equally disregarded with the rest , not havi●g so much as attempted the reconciling of them . i will briefly repeat some of them , and add more out of all three dialogues . i. contradiction . first , i , t. hicks do acknowledge , that the light within checketh for many evils , and excites to many good things ; and that i ought to shun those evils , and do that good , dial. p. . yet in direct contradiction he dares to tell us , that this light in us directing to its best actions , swelleth men but with proud conceits ; and that it doth deceive and mis-guide such as follow it , dial. p. , , . contr. i , thomas hicks do and must bear witness against thy erroneous opinion , if true to the light in me , dial. p. . i am to do what the light in my self directs me , and herein is my comfort , p. . i grant i● ought to be obeyed , p. . — yet in direct contradiction , and to unsay this , he tells us , that the light i● uncertain ; in one man it teacheth one thing , and in another the directly contrary , so that , saith he , there can be no certainty of truth or error , sin or duty by this , dial. p. . contr. again , t. hicks sayes , that it is no disparagement to the light within , to say , that god doth make any thing more known of his will , then is or can be known by it ; for it is but to say , that each degree of light is serviceable to its end , dial. p. . — yet in direct contradiction to , and undervalue of this , he sayes within two pages after , the improv●ment of the light within subverts the covenant of grace , the only way god hath revealed for salvation ; and that it directly opposeth it self to the ends of the covenant , and ought to be rejected , p. . my animadversion contracted upon these contradictions i will give : if this be to argue safely , prudently and like a disputant , i am greatly mistaken ; sure i am , there is nothing of truth or christianity in such confusion : for that a man should be oblieged to obey a light that doth mis-guide , or that t. hicks should talk of acting according to the light in him , making his appeal to it in others ; and yet say , that it may deceive , and oppose the very ends of the covenant of grace , is with 〈◊〉 the top of all impudence and self-contradiction . all this , reader , he pass'd with his usual silence . how concern'd he was to consider it , i shall leave with thee to judge , having hereby so manifestly forfeited his reputation , both as a christian and a disputant . but i will not leave him here ; i shall greaten his score ere we part , and yet evidence , that he hath said little against us , wherein he hath not said a great deal in contradiction to himself . contr. i. i , t. hicks , appeal to the light in thee , steph. crisp , whether this be not an insufficient proof ; for i grant the light ought to be obeyed ; it cheks for evil , and excites to good things , dial. . pag. , . yet in contradiction to this , hear what he sayes : i deny not a light to be in every man ; for the vnderstanding and conscience being parts of the reasonable soul , these do remain still in the worst of men , though the rectitude be lost , dial. . pag. . observ . is it not madness in t. hicks to appeal to a light that hath lost its rectitude ( that is reader , which through depravity is become darkness ) for an evidence about matters of the greatest concern in religion ? can such a light check for evil , and excite to good , that t. h. sayes , hath lost its rectitude ? and is it a crooked and depraved light that he grants , is to be obeyed and followed ? is this man fit to reprove the quak●rs for turning men to a sufficient light , who himself ●onfessedly follows a crooked & depraved light ? no wonder if he cannot see the truth and streightness of our light , who judgeth of it by a light that hath lost its rectitude : for , saith he , i do and must bear witness against thy opinion of the sufficiency of the light in every man , if i be true to the light in me , that hath lost its rectitude , dial. pag. , . contr. ii. it will be our wisdom , yea our duty ( also ) to attend to the light within , dial. pag. . as the place imports . yet in direct contradiction he sayes pag. . what intollerable pride and arrogancy have you quak●rs arrived to , and all this in following the conduct of the light within ? what sayest thou to this , reader ? is this man like to make the quaker no christian ? is it not a shame for those call'd anabaptists to suffer this man as well in his manifest weakness , as great dishonesty to manage the controversie against us ? contr : iii. that which any of you quakers have said of the light within , hath been no more then what the apostle speaks of the man of sin. and what may as well prove mahomet to be the true christ , as the light in you . again , if thou sayest that the light in every man is christ , i charge it with blasphemy , dial. pag. , , . yet in direct contradiction t. h. saith : how could you ( quakers ) call the light within christ , if ●ome scriptures had not mentioned christ in you , and that he is the the light and life of men , dialog . pag. . obs●rv . d●e● joh. . , . chap. . . cor. , . chap. . . gal. . . which we are wont to offer as well prove the man of sin , & mahomet , to be christ as the light which t. h. acknowledgeth to check for evil , to ex●ite to good things ; and confesseth , as before , that the scriptures have given us to call the light within christ , and christ the life and light of men ? wer 't thou aware of these things , t. h. when thou wrotest them ? art thou fit to accuse me of inadvertency , that committest it thy sel ; f. i will not say that any of thy friends , being charg'd with thy follies , replied , what doest thou tell us of t. hicks ? he is a heady , rash man , we take no notice what he saith : but that thou hast prov'd thy self rash and heady , and that they ought to take no further notice of thee then to check thee , thy wretched management of the controversy against us , sufficiently proveth : but let us proceed . iv. contr. you quakers , since you have reprobated the scriptures from being your rule , and given up your selves to the immediate motions and government of the light within , have arrived to this degree of wickedness , to deny jesus christ to be a distinct person without you , dial. pag. , . yet in plain contradiction he sayes , that every man hath a light within him , is not denyed ; and that it ought to be obeyed is granted , ibid. pag. . observ . the consequence , reader , which is this , that men ought to obey that light , the government of which leads to deny jesus christ , &c. and to persist in a reprobation of the scriptures . is this doctrine like to christian the anabaptist , and vnchristian the quaker ? contr. v. verily , i much doubt , that you believe that jesus christ is the son of god , and that as concerning the flesh he was put to death at jerusalem , dial. pag. , . again , the quaker denies that christ was over visible to wicked men ; and consequently that person , call'd in the scripture by this name , who conversed in the world and suffered death openly and visibly at jerusalem , to be the christ ; so that a personal coming in any respect is manifestly denyed by you , contin . pag. , . yet to un-say and contradict all this , he sayes , i never charg'd you quakers for denying that bodily appearance , dial. p. . i no where accuse you for denying christ's bodily appearance , ibid. pag. . ye have confessed to chris●'s bodily appearance , ibid. pg. . which is to say , observ . the quakers do own christ's visible appearance ; the quakers do not own christ's visible appearance : yet i doubt whether they own christ's visible appearance or no. is this man fit to write controversie that is of three or four minds in the writing it ? t●e end of all this confusion will be , not our confutation , but vindication in the minds of all impartial men. vi. contr. his sixth contradiction is this : that the religion of the quakers is a cheat , calculated only to th● service of the devil & their own lusts , dial. p. . yet confesseth to us , t●●● every man is inlightned , that this light checks for evil , and exciteth to good ; that it ought to be obeyed , dial. . pag. , . dial. . pag. . and that this is the quakers first and grand principle , di●● . ● pa● . . observ . now , reader , how our religion can be calculated to the service of the devil , and our own lusts ; & yet the first & grand principle of that religion be unconcern'd in that hellish service , is more then i can tell . the plain english of his gross contradiction is this : th●● the light within , which checks for evil , and excites to good , and ought to be tended upon and obeyed , is the f●rst and grand principle of that religion , which is calculat●d to the service of the devil , and their lusts that receive it . for which detestable blasph●my , with more reason may i use t. h's exclamation , blush o heaven ! and be astonisht o earth ! was ever such a thing as this heard of before ? i must tell the people call'd anabaptists , that the attempts of t. hicks will prove as great a reproach to their profession , and bring the endeavours of our adversaries into as utter abhorrence with all honest-minded people , as any opposition ever made against us . contr. vii . the seventh contradiction , and the last i shall here mention , is very well worth the notice of my reader ; since it doth at once invalidate his whole enterprise with persons of understanding : and that is this . a dialogue between a christian and a quaker , wherein are faithfully represented some of the chief & most concerning opinions of the quakers , dial. title page . again , a further account of their perilous errors , clearly and plainly represented , contin . title-page . again , the things objected against the quakers in the form●r dialogues are fully clear'd & evinced , dial. title-pag . yet as a man infatuated with a spirit of contradiction , thus gives the lye to his three title-pages , and in t●em to his three dialogues . the doctrines delivered ( by the quakers ) are such , as neither themselves , nor any for them can give us a distinct and intelligible account of : and that the tendency of all their writings and declarings , doth but lead people into the thicket of absurd , inexplicable and vnintelligible dotages , contin . epist . p. . observ . now , reader , if no man can understand them , how can t. hicks represent and evince them ? are they inexplicable by every body , and yet explicated by him ? be they unintelligible to all people , and yet not only pretended to be understood by him , but by him made intelligible to others ? how can he with honesty or sense pretend to give an account of our doctrines to the world , who confesseth not only that he has not , but he cannot have from us or any other a distinct and intelligible account of them ? has he not then shot his bow at random ? is this the way to evince and confute them ? never , certainly reader , did any man , thought to be in his wits , give greater ground for people to believe him out of them : we have no cause to fear what a thousand such adversaries can do against us , who thus manifestly help us against themselves , and fall by their own weapons : which leads me to conclude this part of this discourse ; and that i shall do in this argument : he that pretends to be a christian , and yet commits forgery , useth perversion , tells lyes , publisheth slanders , and in his endeavours contradicts himse●f , and that materially , must be a counterfeit , and no christian : but such a man we have evidently prov'd thomas hicks to be ; therefore , i think i may be held excusable in concluding that tho. hicks is a counterfeit , and no christian . the real quaker justified , in a desence of the doctrines held by him , against the mean sophistry and shuffling opposition of tho. hicks the counterfeit . § i. of the light within . though it matters not much what so ill a man sayes of any religion , yet lest some should be so weak as to conclude from our silence , our doctrines indefensible ; and that in having the last word , he has the best cause . i shall briefly consider his opposition . counterfeit . i do say , that the quakers affirm the light in every man to be god : and w. penn ask● , who of us did ever say , that the light within is the whole entire god ? reas . against rail . p. . when i no where express those words , dial. p. . quaker . nor do i , t. h. in the manner delivered , nor to any such charge , as thou now makest them to answer : what i said , with the ground of it , was this : g. w. inferring from joh. . . that if the life was of the divine being , the light must be the same ; ( which was against t. h's calling it an effect ) for as is the cause , the effect must be * thou madest this unreasonable conclusion , th●t not only the light within , but every creature , as beasts and trees are good , because the eff●cts of god's power and wisdom . i then charged thee with insinuating , that every measure of light in man is whole god : so that thy not expressing those words will not acquit thee from not insinuating them ; since thou dost insinuate upon what g. w. said , not only every measure of light , but every tree and every beast , because an effect of his power , to be god. c. thou say●st the light within is not a potential , but a natural effect , which thou illustratest thus ; men are the natural off spring and product of men &c. though this be true , yet a son is a distinct person from his father : is the light within such an effect ? is it another god ? ibid. p. . q. i will answer thee in the language of thy own creed : the son of god is the natural off-spring of god , is he therefore another god ? the holy ghost proceeds from the father and the son , is he therefore another god ? her● is off spring and production ; what sayst thou t. h. to this ? c. if the light within be a natural effect , then it is a necessary effe●t , and that from eternity : but were men from eternity , in whom god had thus naturally shined ? if not , how is the light within a natural effect ? it is in vain to pretend to infallibility , whilst thou talkest thus idly , ibid. q. both thy silly sophistry and reflection are too weak for the business . if the light within had taken its beginning with men , as thou asserts , dial. . p. . it were a good consequence , that the light were not eternal , and therefore not god ; or if the light had necessarily been within from eternity , that men were from eternity : but that men were from eternity , because the light which shines in men was from eternity , is to say , the word , as manifested in the flesh , was from eternity , because the word was from eternity , or that immanuel , god with men , was not from eternity , because he was not with men , nor men with him from eternity . in short , thy sophistry playes upon the word within ; we speak of the eternity of the light 's nature , and thou turnest it to an eternity of manifestation ; as if because we say the light within is eternal , that therefore it must needs have been eternally within . this is not to act the christian , but play the jew against the son of god. for the term effect , it is variously spoken and taken among men : the light of the sun is called an effect of the sun and yet the light of the sun , is not another sun. howbeit , the scripture holds forth the the life of the word to be the light of men ; consequently , the life and light are one . c. though thou wilt not affirm every measure of the light within to be the eternal being ; yet thou wilt not deny , but that it is god. this clears me from forgery . q. thy saying so , makes thee but the more guilty , because the passage thou pretendest to answer , has no such charge in it ; besides , thou hast perverted my words as thy self hast given them , viz. though every measure of light distinctly is not that entire eternal being , yet we are bold to assert , that it is no other then god , the fulness of all light , who searcheth the heart , &c. that doth shine into the inward parts of man , and doth convince , reprove , &c. these latter words were omitted by thee , on purpose to make the word god , relate to the measure of light , which is joyned by me to the fulness . but this is frequent with thee ; proceed . c. either the light within , in the least measure , is god , a creature , or nothing : thou wilt not say it is the entire god ; thou darest not say it is a creature ; it must then be nothing ; might not thy time and abilities have been better improved , then in contending for that , which is neither god nor a creature . q. this reflection as well reaches thee for contending against nothing , as me in contending for nothing : but ( argumentum ad hominem ) consider this ; either the spirit in the least measure of it is god , a creature or ●othing : i suppose t. h. will not say , that in the least measure it is the entire god ; t. h. dares not say it is a creature ; shall w. p. then say in t. hick's name , it must be nothing ? thus through inadvertency , do men intangle themselves in their own net ; we speak of a measure of the light and spirit of god in man , t. h. presently prophanely takes god into parts and pieces , as pag. , , . and then charges it upon us , as the consequence of our doctrine : are not measures and degrees scripture-terms ? does it strike at god's immensity , because he measures forth himself , in his inward discoveries , according to man's capacity ; it is called measure , with respect to man , and not that god is divisible . but the truth is t. h. thou hast made it thy business not soberly to argue , but vainly to quibble , manifestly aiming to take frothy minds : a small share of such sophistry might easily obscure the clearest truths , and seem to lead in triumph the strongest arguments given in its defence ; but the best of it is , such attempts are short-liv'd and , so are thine ? not , i promise thee , that i intend to have thee assassinated . but let us hear what further thou hast to say upon this passage . c. for the other part of thy discourse , viz. that god searcheth the heart , who denies it ? but what is this to the main point ? because god searcheth the heart ; is therefore the common light in every man god ? ●urely , no man , except under the power of delusion would thus reason , p. . q. the word common is neither ours , nor the scriptures , yet if that be the main point , it will not be hard to prove , provided , by common , thou meanest that which shines in all men ; for if god be the searcher of all men's hearts , & he that shows unto man his thought● ( as we must believe , till t. h. can groundedly assign us some other more common searcher of the heart , &c. then god ) and if god doth this , as he is light , who is light , joh. . . & ephes . . . then this light which t. h. calls common , and which we from scripture say , enlightens all men , is god , as joh. . . in him was life , and that life was the light of men. and here is thy main poi●t concluded against thee . i shall add , reader , to this , another instance of his evasive carri●ge , which , i entreat thee to take particular notice of , that thou mayest see at what rate he shuffles with us . in his first dialogue , pag. . he quotes stephen crisp thus , if the light be obeyed , then it must be sufficient ; and answers , i grant it ought to be obeyed , so ought the lawful commands of masters , &c. yet who will thence infer , that they are a sufficient rule to salvation ? to this i replyed , as he quotes me , dial. . p. . by the same reason , that such as obey the lawful commands of masters , are reputed good servants , those who obey the light , are good servants to god : and if those who so keep the commandments of masters , obtain their favour and recompence ; then those who obey the light , by t. h's allusion , obtain god's favour and reward of righteousness ; unto which he makes this return : c. this concludes not the question in controversie , therefore it can be no prejudice to me . q. no , t. hicks ? is it nothing to the purpose , that those who obey the light , are saved from the wrath , and receive the favour and reward of god ; as servants which obey their masters commands , are saved from the wrath , and receive the favour and recompence of their masters ? let the reader judge how much this concerns the question . c. i confess , the light within ought to be obey'd , and so ought the lawful commands of masters , from whence thou boldly , like thy self , concludes to the sufficiency of the meer light within : s●ch extravagancies as th●se , do ordinarily attend thy peculiar genius , dial . p. . q. soft a little ! if the light ought to be obeyed , it is a su●●icient rule for that ob●dience : to keep to thy ●wn parallel of a master and a servant : how can a servant be condemned of his master for not answering his command , whilst the master's command is not a sufficient rule for the servant's obedience . the command implies a sufficient rule to the performance of the thing commanded . c. ' ti● true , that god approves of servants that do sincer●ly obey the commands of their superiors ; will it ther●fore follow , that their commands are sufficient to g●ide us to salvation , p. . q. what a wretched shuffle is this ? was it ever the question , whether the commands of masters were sufficien● to guide us to salvation ? or are the commands of the light about the things of god , no more sufficient to salvation , then the commands of masters ( be they about what they will ) are sufficient to salvation ? is not this a taking away the comparison , by putting the subject of it in the room of that for which it was brought ? making salvation to be as natural a co●sequence of following the commands of masters , as of following the requirings of the light. but we are not so to be shifted off ; for by the same reason , that the civil commands of a master , obeyed , are sufficient to the obtaining of a civil salvation from man's wrath ; the spiritual commands of the light obeyed , are sufficient to the obtaining of a spiritual salvation , that is , a being sav'd from the wrath to come , which is and shall be further revealed against all the workers of iniquity . let me use thy own words , t. h. falsly reflected upon me in this very matter ; where proof is defective , thou beggest the question ( nay , i may say , changest it ) and triumphest in thy o●n confidenc● , which a modest man would not do : away with these poor shuffles for shame ! is this to evince the matters objected to be real truths ? but what sayest thou to my argument p. . grounded on jo. . ? if god be divine and sufficient to salvation , and the word be god , and the life of the word , one with the word , and that life the light of men ; then the light of men is divine and sufficient to salvation . c. oh , what profound divinity and exquisite logick is this ! i perceive thy mind abounds with ignorance , from the arguments that spring thence . thou hudlest the principal agent and ordinary means together , p. . q. a rare excuse for thine — or something worse . ought they not to be together in an argument design'd to prove them one ? ordinary means are thy own words , and not mine . a meer shift for an answer . but to go on . c. how can god himself be called a means ? p. . q. after the same manner that his power saveth us , and his spirit sanctifieth us , and that he becomes the teacher of his people ; such a means , if thou wilt call it so , my argument was offered to prove the light to be . is this to act either the divine or logician after all thy conceited high rants , thus pittifully to beg the question ? but what follows ? c. thy argument is fallaciou● , because that which is spoken in the first should exactly be the subject of the second proposition , p. . q. and so it is . see reas . against rail . p , . c. if the proposi●●on were right , yet thy conclusion doth not reach the plain terms of the question , viz. therefore the common light in every man is god , and sufficient to salvation . q. though i told thee before , that the word common is none of ours , yet i am not offended with it : for the love of god is never the worse for being common , whatever thy reprobation-faith thinks of it . but art thou willing in earnest this should be the question between us ? for i perceive , when thou art put to a pinch , it is frequent with thee to turn me off with such expressions as these , prove this to be the common light within ; what is thi● to the common light within men ? meer evasions ; and most times attended with hard words to cover them , as in pag. , , , , , , , , , &c. c. this is the controversie between us , whether the common light in every man be god , christ , and sufficient to lead to salvation , p. . if thou couldst demonstrate this , it would put an issue to a great part of the controversie between us , ibid. p. . q. very well ; thou hast granted , that in the word was life , and that life the light of men , as joh. . . on which i grounded my argument ; and that the life and light there mentioned , are one with the word ( or of its own being ) consequently god , and sufficient to salvation . but that such a conclusion reacheth not the terms of the question , to wit , the common light in men ; which thou denyest to be one with the life of the word , and therefore insufficient to salvation . upon this i thus argue ; for the bringing of the controversie to an issue . if the light of men , john . . be the light of all men , then is it a light common to all men . thou must deny one of these two , either that light of men is the light of all men ; or , that the light of all men is common to all men ; the latter i should think in point of reputation thou wilt not be so unreasonable as to deny : the former then i must suppose thee to reject , viz. that the light of men , is the light of all men . this i shall maintain by the general phrase of scripture , eccles . . . — this sore travail hath god given to the sons of men , chap. . , . the same chap. . . i have seen the travail god hath given ●o the sons of men , vers . , . that which befall●th the sons of men befalleth beasts ; as the one dyeth so ●y●th the other , jer. . . thine eyes are upon all the wayes of the sons of men , to give every one according to his wayes . which prove , that of men is mea●t of all men. i will add two places more out of prov. . . vnto you , o men ! i ( wisdom ) call , and my voyce is to the sons of men. and ver . . my delight is with the sons of men. this proves matter and phrase : for both of men , signifieth of all men ; and this voice cometh from him , in whom are hid all t●e treasures of wisdom and knowledge , even the eternal word , in whom is life , and that lif● the light of men. from all which i conclude , that the light of men , is the light of all men , yea , every man that cometh into the world , joh. . . and that the light of all men , is a light common to all men ; and that the light that is common to all men , is a common light. now t. h. thou hadst done something , if thou hadst given us as plain reason and scripture for thy two lights within , common and special ; and made good that distinction between light and light , in job . . . john . , . chap. . , . ephes . . . john . , . chap. . , , . and have told us , if thou couldst , where the common light endeth , and the sp●cial light begins : and if the special reprove for ev●l as well as the common ( which tho● sayest , reveals much , and ought to be attended to ) thou shouldst have let us know how the discoveries , motions , reproofs & commands of ●he one might be discern'd and distinguished from the other : for we own but one real spiritual-light to the sons of men , though divers manifestations and operations of that one light , suited to the capacities of all persons and ages ; and not to shuffle me off with asking me , how canst thou infer with such presumtuous confidence , wilt thou dare stand by this consequence ? after thou t. h. hast made it as ugly as thy malice and dishonesty could well contrive . mean artifices to bear thy weak reader in hand ; thou hast hit the mark , when thou hast all along shot quite beside it ; practices , unworthy of any fair disputant , much more a man of thy pretences to religion . hadst thou truly regarded that light of which thou hast writ so many slight things , we should not have seen that envy , passion , base shuffling , insolence , &c. that thy writings now abound withall . therefore under all thy higher conceits thou standest condemn'd of the light : be exh●●ted first to obey it , before thou undertakest to write of thi●gs tho● vainly thinkst beyond it . testimonies concerning the light within . munsterius , castalio , vatablus , drusius , clarius , co●ureus , upon job . . & chap. . . they are of those who rebel against the light. vpon whom doth not his light arise ? say , that this light is of the divine wisdom and fountain of light , alluding to the psalmist , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and mat. . . the people that sa●e in darkness saw great light. also see ●●ese men , erasmus and camero upon john . , . i shall for a further defence of the light , produce some testimonies from several gentiles some hundreds of years before christ . orpheus , his hand reaches to the end of the sea , his right hand is every where ( ●hen within ) of him alone are all things , clem. alex. strom. lib. . thales thus , there is but one god ; he is glorious forever ; he knows hearts and tells thoughts . he makes the teller of his thoughts god , as in amos . . pythagoras thus , god resembleth light and truth ; he is one ; he is not out of the world ; he is the salt of all ages , one heavenly light , and father of all things , only wise , invisible , yet intelligible . the very language of the apostle , jambl. just. mart. heraclitus thus , god is not made with hands . pythagoras , what things are agreeable to god cannot be known , unless a man hear god himself . again , having overcome thy rebellious appetite , thou shalt know the cohabitation of the immortal god and mortal men ; whose work is immortality , eternal life , tim. de anim. mund. sophocles , speaking of the precept● written in man's heart , saith , god is their father , not mortal nature . neither shall they ever be abrogated ; for there is in them a great god that never waxeth old . again , saith he , this is with respect to man's conscience , a divine , a sacred good , god the overseer . oedip. tyr. cl. alex. str. l. . socrates had the guide of his life within him , and preach'd as he was moved by it , even in ●he streets ; and dyed for reproving the corruptions of the athe●ians in manners and religion . plo●in taught , that man had a divine principle in 〈◊〉 , which maketh a true and good man. hi●ron called it , a domestick god. they held victory over their sins by the power of it ; witness chilon , socrates , plato , zeno , antipater and others ; which doctrine of perfection , thou t. h. with all thy pretended super-●d●●d light , can't tell how to swallow . as they prest perfect living , so they clearly laid down eternal rewards , the pure to god● the impure to chains , said pythago●as , as if he had read that scripture writ six hundred years after him , the pure in heart shall see god. the good , sa●d socrates , shall be united to god in an inacc●ssible place ; the wicked in conveni●nt places suffer due punishment . and though they might not have the jewish history and chronicle , yet they had a sufficient law and light within to salvation ; and such as trusted in it , came to salvation by it : and so much the apostle sayes , rom. . and for the fathers , that they confirm the testimonies of the gentiles , and speak not of another eternal law and light ; briefly thus . justin martyr in his apology saith , god has built to himself a natural templ● in the conscienc●s of men , as the place wherein he would be worshipped , and there men ought to look for his appearance . clem. alex. admon . ad gent. it is the voice of truth that light will shine out of darkness . theref●re does it shine in the hidden part of mankind . strom. l. . man cannot be void of divine knowledge , who naturally , or as he comes into the world , par●akes of divine inspiration . lactant. de cult . ver the law of god is made known unto us , whose light clearly discovers the path of wisdom . that law is pure and unspotted reason , diffused through all the world. a●hanas . contr . gent. the way to attain to the knowledge of god , is within us ; which is proved from moses , who saith , the word of god is within thy heart ; and from this saying of christ , the faith and kingdom of god is within you . §. ii. concerning the soul of man. counterfeit . i affirm that g. fox sayes , the soul of man is part of god's being without beginning , and infinite , which is to say , the soul is god , dial. . pag. . quaker . i have two things to say : first , that in case g. f. so holds , thou hast done unworthily to conclude generally against the quakers : in thy former dialogues thou chargedst it upon the quakers ; and now thou layest it directly upon g. f. are such shiftings & runnings from generals to particulars allowable in disputation ? is this equal dealing ? but dly , i deny that g. f. so holds : what sayest thou to that ? c. g. fox in his great mystery , p. . in answer to one that said , there is a kind of infiniteness in the soul ; yet it cannot be infiniteness in it self , speaks thus : is not the soul without beginning , coming from god , returning into god again ? hath this beginning or ending ? and is not this infinite in it self ? can anything be clearer then that g. f. mak●s the soul the subject , and not the divine life ? ibid. pag. , . q. yes , that there may : for it is clear enough that g. f. intends by the soul and breath coming out from god , the divine breath , or soul of the soul , as augustine calls it ; and as mach , neshemah , pneunia , anemos and spiritus signifie . 't was this made adam a living soul to god [ thou dealest unfairly with g. f. and us in making his questions about this , both his and our affirmation . that the soul ( or spirit ) of man is god. a manifest falsehood and abuse . ] and was not the death threathned adam upon disobedience , the loss of this ? they that read g. f's books with a more impartial mind then thou doest , may see that sometimes he speaketh of the soul , as of the man , pag. . where he sayes , that such as receive the light , receive redemption , wh●r by their spirits , bodies & souls are sanctified ; and sometimes he speaks of the soul , as respecting that breath of life , by which it became a living soul to god , which is man in the heavenly image . he that reads page , , . may discern the truth of this but why art thou not angry with the priest , for talking of a kind of infiniteness in the soul ? 't is at the quaker and not the principle , thy gall is stirr'd : for a kind of infiniteness ●ust be infiniteness , and not a finiteness . did g. f's words at most rise higher ? what further doest thou object ? c. but g. f. saith pag. . god breathed into man the breath of life , and he became a living soul ; and is not this which cometh out from god , part of god ? which soul christ is the bishop of . can fox here intend , that christ is the bishop of the divine life , & c. ? yet is he as absurd in calling christ the bishop of the soul : for if the soul be part of god's be●ng , and christ be god , th●n one part of god must be b●sh●p over another , ibid , p. , . q. suppose this cavil had any t●ing in it , and that thou hadst herein faithfully represented our belief , might not i retort upon thy own creed , that god is the father of god : and when christ prayed , god prayed to god ; since the one nature could not pray without the other , and the spirit makes intercession , that is , god intercedes with god : what thinkst thou of this t. hicks ? besides i told thee then , that god inspired man with something of his own substance in the name of r. nahmanni , hiskuni , and p. fagius , that god contributed something to him , and bestowed something of his own divinity upon him , and that thou didst manifest thy self an ungodly person , for inferring that what is vulgarly call'd the soul of man , to wit , the meer creature , is part of god's own substance , because we asserted , that the life , breath or soul , as it may very well be term'd , which god breathed into man , was of his own being and substance : what sayest thou to his ? c. if g. f. be understood to speak with reverence to the soul , then my inference is natural & proper , viz. that the soul is of god's substance , and part of god's being , p. . q. are all thy brags come to this ? take soul as before expressed , and it is granted without any dammage to our doctrine : for the scriptures that testifie , god communicated of his own breath or life unto man , whereby he became a living soul , do not confound man and that divine life ; no more doth g. f. he never affirmed man to be god , his own words distinguish them , viz. god breathed into man , &c. and consequently , that man is not that breath of god which he inspired man with . again , g. f. in many of his writings , speaks of the fallen and degenerated state of men , the great pollution and wi●kedn●ss th●y lie and live in ; and that h●avy wrath and vengeance which will follow : all which concerns man , and not that divine life god hath breath●d into man ; it was not that , but adam which was beguiled : had adam liv'd in that life , he had been preserved . but suppose what i said granted the question , as it did not , many great and learned men have run in the same line , and they escaped the cryes of blasphemy , absurdity , and the rest of thy exclamatory termes from millions : what makest thou keep such a barking at us ? is it that thou ha●t more authority , or less candor ? before i conclude this section , i would put thee in mind of a double injustice thou hast committed : the one was in making this false & prophane consequence , that god sets up a light in himself , which he himself is to obey , and in so doing god shall be saved , to follow from g. f's words forecited . the second is in thy giving this sharp rebuke for this passage , as an answer in thy dialogue , without so much as inserting one word of it , that thou mightst cover thy own unrighteousness , and render me severe . these tricks , t. h. will never compass thy end , but greatly contribute to fru●●rate it . §. iii. concerning the redemption of the seed . counterfeit , forasmuch as christ came to seek and to save that which was lost , i did query , who or what was that which was lost ? ibid. p. . quaker , i know thou didst ; and that thou madest g. keith answer , that which is lost is still in man , that christ came to seek and save , and all his ministers preached people to this , a lost god , a lost christ , &c. upon which thou madest this exclamation , blush oh heavens , and be astonished o earth , & c. ! did j●sus christ come to seek and save a lost god , a lost christs was ever god and christ in a lost condition ? i told thee then , and do still , that the heavens and the earth might blush at thy base dealings with g. k. i also told thee , as thou hast cited me , that he intended no other then that christ came to seek and to save , by turning people to enquire after a lost god and a lost christ . what sayst thou to this ? c. if by lost we must not understand man's lost condition ; what less can be understood , but that jesus came to seek and to save a lost god. 't is true , g. k , speaks of people's finding a lost god , whom they had lost , ibid. p. . q. if this be true , that g. k. so speaks , to wit , that by lost god , he understood people's loosing of god , what 's become of thy blush o heavens , &c. is god and christ in a lost condition ? it is well thou art drawn to confess this against thy self . c. but still , if lost be meant only of god and christ , how can christ be said to seek and save a lost god ? ibid. q. no such words ever fell from g. k. to any such question , as thou makest them an answer to . thou hast unworthily perverted both his words and sense . though lost be said of god , yet the loss is man's ; for every man who hath lost god is truly in a lost condition : but to apply that lost condition to god , and not man , becau●e man hath lost god , and is admonished to seek after a lost god , is to commit great injury against us , as thou hast attempted with thy silly ins●nuation , viz. if lost he meant only of god and christ , &c. what poor begging shifts art thou put to ? c. but to put the reader out of doubt , that what i infer is indeed your very opinion , g. f. and j. n. tell us , that the seed wants redemption , and the seed is christ either then there must be more christs then one , or christ came to redeem himself , ibid. q. is it to put us out of doubt , to leave it in doubt whether g. f. and j. n. ever said any such thing , or these words , as laid down together ? for tho● referrest to no book . but suppose it be true ; will it bear thy inference ; therefore god and christ are in a lost condition ? is it all one to say , that christ is brui●ed and oppressed , and crucified afresh by wicked men , and put to open shame ; and to say , that christ is in a lost condition ? if it be not , as every ordinary capacity may easily see ; how needless , as well as how false is this rant of thine ? p. . viz. wilt thou assert the very thing which i infer from your words , and yet say , i pervert them ; may we not justly esteem of thee , as a heady , rash and inconsiderate young man , &c. thus t. h where it is impossible for thee to make good thy conclusions , thou tellest me of granting the charge , and then fallest into thy usual insults , the better to insinuate a credence of thy ability and honesty with thy reader . c. but is it not absurd , yea , blasphemous , to talk of god's redeeming the seed ? ibid. q. no more blasphemy then is in the scripture , which sayes , out of egypt have i called my son , a place of burdens . but i the less wonder at thy ignorance in these heavenly things , who never yet drunk of his cup , nor was baptized with his baptism , nor knew the true fellowship of his death and sufferings ; but art now adding to them by as provoaking impieties , as any man of this age hath committed against him . give me thy judgment of these scriptures , and my consequence from them . and god saw that there was no man , and wondred that there was no intercessor ; therefore his arm brought salvation to him , and righteousness it susteined him , isaiah . . again , the year of my redeemed is come , and i looked , and there was none to help , and i wondred that there was none to uphold ; therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me , and my fury it uph●ld me , chap. . , . whence it is no contradiction to say , that god did rid himself of the enemies of his own precious life , or that he brought salvation to himself . c. i infer from your words this horrid absurdity , that god redeems himself , p. . this is thy truth against fiction . q. it is not from our words , but the words of scripture ; and but that thou art become shameless , i should wonder that any man pretending the scriptures to be his rule , should charge plain scripture with absurdity and blasphemy . c. thus christ is at one and the same time at liberty and in bondage , redeeming and redeemed , conquering and yet pressed down : and though this kind of language be folly and madness , yet thou tellest us , thou art content to use it , p. . q. and it were well if thou wouldst be contented , not to abuse it : is this thy religion , to vilifie the language of other peoples religion ; nay , of holy scripture it self ? but how dark art thou t hicks , to make b●th a wonder and a scoff at christ's conquering and yet being pressed down at the same time ; when the scripture so plainly holds forth , that he is crucified by such counterfeit christians as thou art , at what time he reigns in the hearts of his children ? and is not the spirit said to be quenched by some , at what time it lives in others ? and is he not grieved by the rebellions of some , whilst he is delighted in others ? was not god at liberty at what time he said , they made him s●rve with their sins ? and was he not whole , at what time he said , he was broken , ezek. . . * canst thou reasonably infer , because of these expressions , us'd after the manner of men , that it is absurdity and blasphemy , that god heals himself , delivers , himself , and eases himself of his enemies ; words of equal import ? methinks thy unsavory carriage should reflect shame upon w. kiffin , with his elders , &c. to suffer such irreverent trash to come out of their congregation ; if they value their credit , they will not suffer thee any longer thus upon the ramble . but before i leave thee in this section , i have one thing more to charge thee with , and that is , not only the abuse of our words , by concluding from man's being turned to seek after a lost god and christ , that god and christ are in a lost condition , but that they only want redemption , and that men and women are not the objects of redemption , as in dial. p. . then which nothing can be more false , and consequently , injurious to a people . but i have left wondering , that thou shouldst be base . §. iv. concerning our belief in christ . quaker . another instance by which thou undertakest to prove the quaker no christian , is , his denyal of jesus christ to be a distinct person without him : is this true , or no ? counterfeit . i accuse you for denying jesus christ to be a distinct person without you , p. . q. i say that thou hast varied thy charge , and given thy self an answer to it out of my book , which was never an answer to any such matter , viz. herein thou hast shewn thy ignorance and malice ; nor is it so in my book , but ignorance or malice : thou also omitteth the ground of my so speaking , which is not fair , viz , the quakers say , that christ is in them , christ is god-man ; is god-man in them ? again , there is but one christ , born of ● virgin , that suffered at jerusalem : can that christ be in man ? in defence of which strange construction of our belief , thou hast offered nothing to what i opposed . howbeit , i desire my reader to take notice , that since thou pretendest to own but one christ , and sayst , that it is impossible that christ should be in man , that thou both denyest the scripture , and contradictest thy self ; there is not any doctrine clearer in holy record , then that of christs indwelling with his saints , joh. . , . chap. . , . chap. . . rom. . . cor. . . cal. . . col. . . revel . . . the same objection thou makest against us , holds good against them , as thus , christ is god-man ; can god-man be in the corin●hians ? what might not a t. hicks have cavilled against christ and his disciples , ●s well as against us ? is this the way to prove the quaker no christian , that makes that thing error , which can only constitute men right christians : for if christ be not there , no anointing can be there , which john sayes , leads into all truth : besides , thou contradictest thy self , as thou mayest see , dial. p. , . but to thy present charge . c. this i object against you , your denying christ to be a distinct person without you ; to which thou speakest nothing , signifying thereby , that y●u are pinched , ibid. p. . q. i told thee under the head of perversions , that this was not all thou madest us to deny ; for thou didst untruly infer our denyal of christ's bodily appearance , concerning which thou speakest nothing , signifying thereby , that thou art pinched , unless it be to deny thou ever saidst so , as p. , . thereby adding a lye to the shuffile . but why are we pinched , because we say nothing to a doctrine the scripture sayes nothing of : give me one place that mentions christ to be a distinct perso● without us ; art thou so destitute of common sense , as to think of proving the quaker no christian , because he denies a doctrine , not expressed in scripture ; and yet at that instance to magnifie the scripture , as thy sole rule : verely , thou makest thy self a derision to all wise men. but go on , make the best of thy charge . c. g. f. in his great mystery , p. . writes thus , thou art deceived , who sayest christ is distinct from the saints : can any man eat the flesh of christ , if his flesh be not in them ? q. this probably thou mayst have found in thy brother faldo 's book , and thou mightst have found it defended in mine . wh●re is distinct among g. f's words , which are these , but god and christ is in his saints , and dwell 〈◊〉 them , and walk in them ; and he , the priest , is reprobate , and out of the apostles doctrine : which plainly shews that g. f. only opposeth christ's being as a distance , as divided from the saints , because they who know not christ to be in them the apostle terms reprobates ; and not that christ and his saints are in distinct beings . that christ's flesh must be in people if they eat it , is so far from being either matter of error , or any proof for thee , that , till thou canst prove , how a man may eat his victuals without him , thou wilt but render thy self ridiculous in talking at such an idle rate . what else hast thou to offer ? c. g. whitehead saith , jesus christ a person without us , is not scripture-language , dip. pl. p. . — we cannot own your limitations and un●criptural notions concerning christ's being , r. against r. . p. . q. but ( why dost thou leave out the word god-man , which thou usedst at first , and was repeated by g. w. ) what of all this t. h ? c. if these be your words , wherein is my ignorance or malice manifest , in giving the world an account of your belief ? ibid. p. . q. thou mightst as well have said of our dis-belief of thy unscriptural belief : canst thou upon second thoughts perswade thy self , that this is the way to prove the quaker no christian , cond●mn him out of his own mouth and evince his errors to the world , that wanderest from sound doctrine and whols●m words , to effect it . howbeit , not so much for thy sake , who makest it thy business to render us a scorn and reproach among men , by the most injurious practices upon our persons and principles ; as for theirs in whom there is some tenderness and sober enquiry , i shall endeavour to take away all occasion of stumbling , by this short and sesrious account of our belief . 't is granted , that christ , who is god over all , blessed for ever , is a distinct being ( though not at a distance ) from the saints ; otherwise , it would be all one indeed to ay , as thou , t. h. wickedly concludest , p. . from thy own invention of man's being the seed , which is god , that it is all one , whether we call god by the name of w. penn or call w. penn god and christ ; a blasphemous absurdity indeed , as thou sayeth ! but then , what art thou that madest it ? next , we never said , that christ was not as well without us , as within us ; for we cannot comprehend him , but are comprehended of him : we never set any limitations to christ's presence ; they are the false and hateful inferences of our enemies ; and let the reader beware , that he be not abused by them . for the word person ( as thou usest it , in telling us of christ , god-man , a distinct person without thee ) it is no scripture-phrase ; for in heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hypostasis signifies substance ; and in cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies in christ's stead , name , sight or authority , or for his sake , as ●rotius , erasmus and the ancient fathers have it . however , i hope for our tenderness in this particular , considering that t. h.'s charge is no scripture-phrase , and that such like expressions occasion people to retain mean and dark apprehensions of god , and christ , and his place of residence ; we shall not suffer in the mind of our sober reader , as men undeserving the name of christians . hast thou t. h. any more to offer upon this head ? c. if the light be jesus christ , and a measure of it in all men , but more eminently in your selves ; whether w. p. and g. w. may not as properly be called jesus christ , as well as that bodily appearance or outward person ? and why may not divine worship be given as well to you as to him ? q. that jesus christ is the light of men , the scripture holds forth ; but that w. p. or g. w. should be the proper body prepared of god , for himself to be manifested in ( as was that in which god was manifested in the flesh : in whom dwelt the fulness of the god-head ) is not scriptural , nor a consequen●e from our opinion ; but a blasphemous inference of thy making , to be abhorred of just men. are we christ's body , as that was ? did we ever say , that the fulness of the godhead dwelt bodily in us ? he is manifested in us measurably , to save us : but was he so manifested in that manhood to save it ? or is either g. w. or w. p. as properly and peculiarly the man-hood of the saviour as that he took to manifest himself saviour in ? thou shalt see whither thy sophistry will lead thee : the son of god appeared bodily and visibly at jerusalem : the son of god was revealed in paul ; therefore paul might as well be called jesus christ as he , in that appearance . again , divine worship is to be given to christ : but christ was in paul ; therefore divine worship was to be given to paul. again , t. h. doubtless , at least many of the baptists , believe they have the spirit of god , and that the spirit of god is god , and therefore to be worshipped ; will it be a good consequence , that t. h. or those baptists are to be worshipped ? these vain cavils and sophisms thou undertakest to entertain thy reader with , and to abuse us by ; are great instances of a weak cause and an evil mind . c. be not angry if again i ask thee , if christ signifie anointed , and god be christ , as thou affirmest ; whether god himself be anointed , ibid. p. . q. it seems then , socinian-like , thou dost not affirm that god is christ ; and yet it is but two pages before that thou sayst , the god-head of the son , and the manhood conjunct is the christ . and dial. p. , thou callest god manifest in the fl●sh , christ . is not god then christ by thy own words ? but what answer did i give thee to thy question about anointing ? c. thou sayest , christ was not anointed by halfes but entirely ; herein thou contradictest thy self , and overthrowest thy own distinction between chr●st and the bod● of christ. q. no such matter ; for the distinction came from thy insinuating , that the man hood of christ was the the christ , because that only could be anointed , upon which , knowing it was lately thy opinion , that christ was god as well as man , i said , that he could not be anointed by halfes ; and therefore christ was anointed as god as well as man : what sayst thou to this ? c. the difficulty still remains : if god alone was that which was anointed , the question returns upon thee , whether god did anoint himself , and with what , and to what end ? q. thou art mistaken , and miserably begst the question , and sendest it back again : for when thou ( to prove the meer manhood to be the christ or anointed ) didst insinuate the impossibility of christ to be god as well as man , and that god manif●st in the flesh , makes the true christ or anointed , and that it is absurd to think he should be anointed by halfs : is not god or the divine nature also anointed ? if so , t. h. who is it that anointed the god-head , and with what , and to what end ? these are thy own words , and they belong to thy own doctrine . thou didst object against our principle , and hapned to contradict thy own principle in it : i sent thee the objection home again , for thee to disingage thy own principle of it , first , thou growest angry , tellst me of contradicting my self , and returnest me the objection never considered ; but back it must go ; and when thou hast found the way to clear thy own , that shall serve for thine and mine too . and thus i leave thee and thy cavils in this section . §. v. concerning the gospel-rule . let us hear what thou hast to say to the arguments i gave about the rule . c. you deny the scriptures to be the rule of faith and practice u●to chri●tians , p. . ● . thou would t here insinuate , as if our faith and practice ●ere not according to scripture , because we do not assert them , but the spirit that gave them forth , to b● the ●ule , especially , in new covenant times : i grant the scriptures are to be fulfilled , and that many heavenly exhortations , reproofs & instructions therein contained , are to be regarded by us ; but that which is my rule to direct my under●tanding , what is fit for me to embrace , and what to reject , and how to understand that which is to be received , m●st be the spirit of truth , which alone g●ves true discerning : therefore let us hear what thou sayest to my argument , reas . against rail . p. . as thou they self has cited it , dial. . p. . viz. that which is more ancient , more universal , and more able to inform , rule and guide , that must more eminently be the rule : but that hath been , and is , the light within ; therefore that hath been , and ought to be the rule of ●aith and practice : what dost thou offer to invalidate this argument ? c. then her●in i have not misrepresented your belief , p. . q. but is this the way to confute our belief ? or did we charge thee with misrepresenting it in this particular ? dost thou think thus to evince the truth of thy objections , to grant us the matter objected : it seems , we are to take this for thy answer ; and consequently , that the light within is eminently the rul● , for ought thou hast said against it . proceed . c. ●ut forasmuch as you often say , you own the scriptures , and the holy rules therein contained : in what sense do you acknowledge them to be your rule ? q. thou makest me to answer this question thus , the scripture is the rule of historical faith ; the spirit can only be the rule of saving faith , reas . ag . rail . p. . but can any man that hath the least draghm of honesty or justice , think this the way to confute me , to skip over near . pages , containing several arguments made to evidence and confirm the truth of the fir●t ? hadst thou not a conscience that dares do and say any thing , thou could●t never have given me such an unhandsom slip. but let us hear what thou sayst to that which thou hast cited . c. if the light within be more able to inf●rm , rule and guide , and therefore more ●minently the rule ; what need is there of an historical rule ? p. . q. did ever any man pretending to be in his vvits , talk so idly ? what is it but to say , if the spirit of god was alwayes more able then the scripture ; what need is there of having scripture ? is not this to infer from god's condescension to man's imbecillity , that the light and spirit of god are imbecil : is not this to reprobate all external means , and to conclude god , christ , the light and spirit insufficient , because that any were ever used : is it a good argument , becau●e the light does not reveal such a thing , therefore the light cannot reveal such a thing , which is the utmost strength of thy opposition . i further told thee , that those who gave forth the scripture , came by the enjoyment of those thing● through the light and spirit of god , or they could never have writ them ; therefore the light and spirit , and not the scriptures , were the rule of their faith. but of this and abundance more to the same purpose , thou takest no notice : i further told thee , that the prophets saw him with this light , unless they saw him without light , and that those that believed him , when come , could not have received him , had they not beheld him with an inward eye . thus thou quotest me : what reply makest thou to this ? c. that the prophets saw him by the light of divine revelation , i grant : and that none do believe in him , what do not know him is true ; but that this light or inward eye is the common light in every man , that thou must prove . p. . q. it was formerly , and is again proved to be the same light , though not the same in manifestations . every one had th● same light ; but not the same prohecies , nor the same sights : when thou hast proved two lights , it will be time for thee to talk at this rate : no●hing did then , nor can now , lead truly to know and confess to the word that took flesh , in which vvord was life , and that life the light of men ; but ● ; uch discoveries as proceed from a measure of the same light , as hath been already proved . and should i admit of thy construction , that the light by which such as had a true sight of christ before , and at his coming was not the common light , as thou callest it ; but that which thou thy self allowest to be divine ; yet wilt thou give me leave to infer in thy name , that the divine light was insufficient , before such time as it reveald those things to the prophets , and gave tho●e that were alive at christ's spiritual coming , a knowledge and a sense of them , because they did no● know them before they knew them : for at this rate thou ●reate●●●s abo●t the light within ; the light within doth not do this , 〈…〉 the light within cannot do it , presumpt●●●sly concluding it insufficient to discover those things , that either do not need a discovery , because they are already known , or that it seemeth good to god in his vvisdom to conceal . c. if the scriptures tell thee ●here was such ● man as moses , david and matthew , &c. without which thou couldst not have known any such ●●ing ; so the scripture tells thee what they spoke and wro● of ; therefore the scriptures must be the rule of thy belief , both conc●rning those men and their sayings , p. . q. i grant that the scriptures tell me , there were such men , as moses , d●●id and matth●w , and that they wrote : but what is it that gives me to believe the things they wrote to be true ? the rule of ●aving faith is that we speak of , and not that which is historical ? it is impossible for me to understand the truth of those things , till i come to that spirit of truth that gave them forth ; for no man can know the things of god , save the spirit of god. the want of which hath been the cause why so many have been bewildred about the things there declared : spiritual and heavenly things are not di●cernable by carnal men , they are hid from their eyes ; & till the light shine out of darkness , to give them the knowledge of the scriptures ; they are as a sealed book , and they labour in a labyrinth of uncertainties . i do say again , the light in all ages hath made known doctrines , fit to be obeyed , though not the histories and narratives of other mens actions ; which is thy silly objection against the light 's sufficiency . but one thing i must not forget , on which thou didst not depend a little , as an instance to prove thy conceit , viz. how could we have known , that swearing in any case were unlawful , if it had not been written in the th of matthew swear not at all , dial. . p. . but this i proved to thee , to have been revealed above . years before that was written ; but what is the reason thou over-lookest that answer ? clinias was taught by it rather to suffer a great fine , then swear ; the essaeaens had rather dye then swear , which was long before christ came in the flesh : was not the light then a sufficient rule for their practising of an evangelical doctrine by thy own argument ? but t. h. art thou not greatly ashamed , that because i supposed upon thy principle , thy light and rule to be two , reas . against rail . p. . that therefore i contradict my self , and overthrow mine own opinion , saying , if light be given to understand the rule , then it self is not the rule , much less greater then the rule ; and as if thou hadst come rightly by this consequence , falling into thy customary insults , telling me , t●is is so far from being truth against fiction , that it discovers me to be a rash , heady , confident and ignorant man , one that neither cares what he sayes or affirms . hadst thou any regard to god , thy own conscience , thy neighbour , or thy own reputation , thou wouldst never commit , much less continue to practise , these horrid wrongs against me . however , as i said before , so again : i affirm , that supposing the scriptures were the rule , that which informs me of the rule , and teaches me how to use it , must be greater then the rule , in that it teaches me to know and do what the rule cannot do of it self : i query then , if t●is light be not the rule , how and which way i come to understand and use the scriptures ? &c. therefore eminently the rule , the terms of my argument ; for the question lay not upon particular rules . c. the primitive christians took not their measures from the light within , but from the will of god revealed to them , p. . q. this is confusion it self : are the light within and the will of god revealed inconsistent things ? who was it revealed to them ( paul turned from darkness to ( light the will of god , but the light ? and what was it taught them the truth , when john said , they had received an anointing , which abode in them , and taught them all things ; unto which he directed , and with which he left them , john . , . and doth not the same apostle tell us , if we walk in the light , we have fellowship one with another , & c ? was not the light then the rule of their obedience , and the way in which they were to walk ? for the accomplishment of that prophetick speech , isa . . . oh ye house of jacob , come ye , and let us walk in the light of the lord. and is there any thing plainer , then that the apostle paul describes the children of god , to be such as are led by the spirit of god , rom. . . and that he exhorts the galatians to walk in the spirit , chap. . and the ephesians to walk circumspectly , which was , according to the manifestations of the light , chap. . , , . finally does not the same apostle pronounce peace on as many as walk according to the rule of the n●w creature , gal. . . i further told thee that the waldonses , lutherans , prot●st●●ts , ●alvinists , &c. made the testimony of god in their consciences the chief ground of their belief of the scriptures , reas . against rail . pag. . c. that the walden●es , &c. made the testimony of their consciences the chief ground of the belief of th● scriptures , is confidently said , but more then ever w. penn is able to prove . q. but if w. penn is able to prove that the waldenses , lutherans , prot●stants , calvinists , yea and independents , and anabaptists too , have made the testimony of god in their consciences , the ground of their belief of the scriptures , wilt not thou then appear to have told a confident untruth ? let us hear what they say . that the waldenses held so thou mayst inform thy self if thou pleasest , out of their history , penn'd by john paul perin of lyons , lib. . cap. , cap. , cap. . luther taught , that the spirit is required to the vnderstanding of the whole scripture and of every part thereof again , the scriptures are not to be understood , but by that very spirit by which they were wrot , tom. . fol. . john bradford , a worthy martyr , thus answered the arch bishop of york , who catechised him how he came to know the scriptures ? we do believe and know , said he , the scriptures , as christ's sheep , not because the church saith they are the scriptures , but because they be so , being thereof assured by the same spirit that wrote and spake them , book mart. vol. . p. . william tindal , another faithful martyr in hen. his time , writes thus ; it is impossible to understand the scriptures more then a turk , for him that hath not the law of god written in his heart to fulfil it . again , without the spirit it is impossible to understand them , w. tind . work. p. . & p. . b. jewel against the papists hath this passages ; f●esh and blood is not able to understand the holy will of god , without special revelation , therefore christ gave thanks unto his father ; and likewise opened the hearts of his disciples , that they might understand the scriptures : without this special help and prompting of god's holy spirit , the scriptures are unto the reader , be he never so wise or well learned , as the vision of a sealed book . calvin saith , it is necessary that the same spirit that spake by the mouth of the prophets should pierce into our hearts , to perswade us of the truth of what they delivered , instit . lib. . cap beza saith , that the understanding of the scriptures should be fetcht from the same spirit that dictated them , bez in nov. test . pet. . . pet. martyr taught , that it is the spirit of god , that reveals the truth in the holy scriptures , com. loc . p. cap. . h. bullinger asserted in his decad. & serm. dedicated to k. edw. . that men fetch the vnder●●anding of heavenly things and knowledge of the holy ghost from no where else then from the same spirit . what sayest thou to this t. h ? can the holy ghost be this discoverer and instructor , and yet not eminently the rule ? but in asmuch as thou chargest me with denying the scriptures authority , and then railest , p. . because i place it upon the te●●timony of the light and spirit of god in the conscience ; hear what d. john owen sayes , the only publick authentick and infallible interpreter of the holy scripture , is he who is the author of them , from the breathing of whose spirit it derives all its verity , perspicuity and authority , exerc. . , . vvhat would have become of me , t. h. if i had spoken so broad as this ? this makes the spirit interpreter , judge and rule of our knowledge , therefore eminently the rule . t. collier , an ancient and considerable baptist , shall be my last instance here ; there is the law and testimony in the spirit , saith he , as well as in the letter . the law of god is in the heart , there it is written ; and there it testifies the truth of god : and if any man speak not according to this rule , it is because there is no light or morning risen in him . see his works , pag. . again , others know no other touch-stone nor tryal , no other light by which they judge of truth then scripture ; thus putting it in the room of the spirit , which is light , and the greater light : for they say , they cannot know truth till they bring it to the letter for tryal ; thus making an idol of the letter , setting it up in the room of god , ibid. pag. . i could produce a great cloud of more witnesses , both of fathers and other authors ; but i hope i have discharged my self of my engagement , and made appears , that what i asserted was not too hard for me to prove , and therefore thou t. h. wert too confident in saying so : but thy notorious ignorance in these things may a little excuse thee . but thou chargest us with undervaluing the scriptures , a fault i abhor to be guilty of ; let me hear in what . c. you contemptibly call the scriptures the letter , whilst you entitle some of your own pamphlets , the voice of wisdom , a message , &c , wherein you manifestly prefer your own writings before the holy scriptures , pag . q. this cavil has been answered again and again , i told thee before , and thou hast cited me thus , if at any time we call the scriptures letter , it is not that we mean our books are the spirit , or that we irreverently set them ( the scriptures ) below our own writings , but upon a comparison only between the scriptures and the spirit that gave them forth . what return dost thou give to this ? c. it is aggravate , not to excuse your error . q. it is an error to call the scriptures the letter in a comparison with the spirit ? and an aggravation of that error , to prefere the spirit before the letter ? but as this all thou hast to say to the matter ? c. why have you not respect to this comparison when you entitle your own books ? but that you would have us to believe that your writings are more eminently from the spirit then the sciptures ? p. . q. how do we prefer our writings above the scriptures , which we prove by the scriptures ? i perceive it is become almost impossible with thee to make any other constructions , then what rather shew thine own envy then our sense . was there ever the same reason for a comparison between our writings and the spirit ? did we ever set them up for the only rule of faith and obedience , and that in opposition to the spirit , as the new covenant rule , and those that maintain that plea ? if there were the same occasion , thou shouldst quickly hear of the same distinction and comparison . but go on . c. hence it is , that when both stand in competition you thus distinguish them , letter , yea , dead letter , as the proper term for the scriptures ; but the voice of wisdom to your books : art thou not ashamed of this bas●ness and prophaneness ? pag. q. whatever i am , i perceive thou art not ashamed of making me base and prophane too , and printing a most horrid untruth to render me so : there is not a sentence in thy book gives a clearer testimony of the injustice of thy carriage then this in hand . for nothing is more frequent with thee throughout thy dialogues , then first to invent something odious in our name , and then , as if none so modest and righteous as thy self , cry out , who would not be astonished at this blasphemou● absurdity ? p. . art thou not ashamed of this prophaneness and baseness ? p. . o impious man , &c. p. . but let this determine this point between us . produce but one of our friends , that ever brought his vvritings in competition with the scriptures , calling the scriptures the dead letter , & his own books the voice of wisdom , &c. and i will yield thee to have written truth : if thou canst not , thou hast but fastened baseness , prophaneness and lying upon thy self : with thee i leave them ; for there thou ought est to rest , till thou canst better clear thy self of them . i charged thee with having wronged geo. fox and rich. hubberthorn , in making them to say , it is dangerous for ignorant people to read the scriptures ; and then fixing the name of jesuit and romanish upon us ; producing their words at large , which thou hast basely contracted to thy own ends , leaving out what might most make for their innocency , and the evincen●●ent of thy own forgery . thou givest the words thus , the letter killeth , is dangerous : in my quotation , and in their own book , thus , the letter which killeth , cor. . . is d●ngerous [ for thou ( priest ) takest in h●re to war with●l against the saints , with thy carnal mind , giving out thy carnal expositions upon it . ] all this , t. h. thou hast unworthily left out , that thou mightest the better fasten thy fiction upon g. f. and r. h. i ask , is it not dangerous to read the scriptures to these ends ? and the ministers of the letter are the ministers of death ; here thou leavest out again [ which is to condemnation , and you take it to make a trade with it , and with what the prophets , christ and the apostles said , so that some have and some l. a year ; but christ cryed wo unto such whited walls ] having left out this part , that concerned the hireling thou puttest in again ; and here you read with danger who speak of them and speak a lye , because you speak of your selves : here again thou lettest drop [ and you wr●st the scriptures to your own destruction ] ( as the unlearned and unstable do ; and is not this dangerous in them ? ) then thou bringest in this , and to you it is dangerous to read or speak of them ; omitting all that here follows by me cited to clear them of thy charge , viz. [ who know not the life of them as the pharisees , who were learned in the letter , but knew not christ : but i say , blessed is he that readeth & doth understand ] all this so necessary to give the undertstanding of their true meaning thou hast designedly overlookt : however , let us hear what defence thou hast made for thy self . c. the question respects the whole scripture , which you say , is dangerous and killing ; the ministers of the scriptures are ministers of death , and it is dangerous for such to read them : what a shameless man art thou , thus to confess what i accuse you of , and yet condemn me as a forger ? pag. . q. these foul and confident questions thou usest to ask me with which thou wouldst insinuate thy innocency , do but aggravate thy forgery . for first , how do i confess what thou accusest us of , when it is neither to be found in my words , nor theirs upon whom thou chargest them , viz. it is dangerous for ignorant people to read the scriptures . dly , i told thee they meant by ministers of the letter , ministers of the law and death , because of transgression , and thou makest it dangerous for such to read the scriptures ; whereas g. f. and r. h. said , it was dangerous for hirelings and whi●e walls to use them against the saints with their carnal exp●sitions , opposing them pharisee - like , to the life of them , wresting them to their own ●estruction . it is dangerous for such to read them to such uses and purposes not in any sense as thou untruly sayest : of this thou takest no notice . so that here the reader may plainly see thy first forgery ; since it was not the man of no letters , but the men of letters , such as the scribes and pharise●s , who used them against the right heirs of them , of whom g.f. and r.h. ●poak . and thy second is not less visible , in that thou hast imposed upon the reader my confession of thy accusation , who never confessed any such thing . these are some of thy wonted tricks , ever & anon imploy'd to cover thy nakedness with , and to get off unsuspected , from encountering the difficulty of our charge , proof or argument . i appeal to god's witness in my reader 's conscience , to right us against the many injurious practices against us : and shall conclude with this acknowledgment and argument concerning the scriptures . we do receive and believe the scriptures given forth by holy men of god , as they were moved of the holy ghost , and that they are profitable for doctrine , for reproof , and for instruction in righteousness ; yet since they are writings relating to the things of god , no man can understand them , or have an assured testimony of them , but by the spirit of god , cor. . which alone reveals the deep things of god : it was not the scripture , but the father that revealed christ to peter , mat. . . further , the new covenant times are times of fulfilling of the scriptures , by the pouring out of the spirit , therefore peoples regard should be to the inward drawings and leadings of the holy spirit . the law outward was a rule to the jew , though not eminently unto them ( for the lord gave them also of his good spirit ; & what for , if not to rule them ? ) but the law of the spirit of life promised to be reveal'd within , under the new & everlasting covenant , was certainly to be the rule under that covenant , being a time for the more immediate flowings forth of spirit and life . we do not say that every one hath hereunto attained : but we affirm , that god hath given a measure of his spirit unto men & women , that they might receive the pretious promises , unto w ch we direct them for that end. i know that t. hicks , according to his wonted baseness , pag. . interprets our saying , that we deny the scriptures to be the rule of faith and practice in honour to the divine light , to be our denying & rejecting the revealed will of god , thereby must hate their parents , because they are to love christ first , mat. . this were to say , that paul's regard to the law of the spirit of life in him , as his rule , was not to fulfil , but to deny & rej●ct the law without : if this consequence be false agains● paul ; how can t. h.'s consequence be good against us ? is it to reject and deny the scriptures , to have the good things they declare of brought in by the eternal spirit ? and since the scriptures can not fulfil themselves in us , but the spirit ; is not the spirit the rule and guide to our divine knowledge and enjoyments . but from our asserting the spirit to be the rule , t.h. infers , that we deny to live according to the scriptures , a mi●take he fell into before , which i offer'd to help him out of in my answer ; for to own the scripture to be the rule , and to live according to the scriptures , are not one and the same thing : for the gentiles did the things contained in the outward law , and yet had not the outward law for a rule , rom. . . nor is it to be doubted , but that paul and the primitive christians lived up to the outward law ( that is the inward law outwarly declared ) by the law of the spirit of life , which was the rule of their obedience : yet can any infer , that the outward law and not the inward was the rule of their so living ? and i must tell thee , th. hicks , that thy exalting of the scriptures , is but an endeavour to throw down the spirit ; which sacrifice , be it known unto thee , the lord of heaven loathes . and i will say to thee , as g. f. and r. h. said to the priest , they are dangerous to be read and used for those evil purposes thou employest them upon : but as they said ( though that also thou didst overlook ) so say i , blessed is he that doth read , and understands them . testimonies concerning the rule . irenaeus , pag. , , . the writing in the heart is the rule . again , l. . c. . the word giveth his spirit to all , to some according to condition . and , l. . c. . the fathers justified by the righteousness of the law in them , therefore had no need of reproving letters . w. perkins works , vol. pag. . the light of nature and grace teacheth to do as we would be done to , pag. . it is the fulfilling of the law , the rule to judge scripture . that ( of god ) made the rule , something in the conscience ; happy times , if men would follow it . bp. r. sanderson , de obligat . conscient . pag. . a rule of discerning without the scriptures . regula discernendi extra scripturam . and t. c●llier in plain words saith , the spirit of god , who is god , is the alone rule of a christian , gen. epist . to the saints , chap. . — the spiritual man judgeth all things by the rule of the spirit , ibid. the law of the new testament is written in the heart , ibid. but what need is there further of my maintaining this point , concerning the light being the rule in all ages ; since thou hast made such ample confession , that the godly in all ages before christ in the flesh , were turned from the darkness to the light , pag. . this light must needs be within because the darkness is there : and it must needs be sufficient , because thou sayest it was that which paul was sent to turn people to , p. , . and what could this light be for , if not to guide , rule and lead them in the wayes of godliness , and consequently the rule of the godly in all ages ? therefore the more general rule , because the scripture was not in all ages , and suffi●●●nt ; because it was of god appointed for the godly man's way , unless thou wilt suppose , that they were turned to an insufficient light. §. vi. of commands and ordinances ; particularly baptism and the supper . quaker , i have sufficiently shown under the section of forgeries the horrid abuse thou hast committed in thy last book against e. burroughs , concerning commands and ordinances ; i shall here further detect thy miscarriage . the matter charged upon e. b. i shall set down with his name before it . e. b. you are not yet dead with christ , who are subject to ordinances . t. h. the spirit of god in the scriptures assures us , that they that keep the commandments of god are the children of god , john . , . yet this wicked man e. b. saith , that they who are subject to ordinances are not dead with christ [ sec colloss . . , . ] q. e. b. pleads o●●y against such performances under the name of or●●●ances , as were but shadowy , elementary and perishing things , appointed for a season , and to pass off . thus thou thy self hast quoted me , dial. . p. . what sayest thou to this ? c. if thus e. b. did plead , why dost thou say i b●lyed him ? ibid. p. . q. because in thy former dialogue thou madest him as well deny to continue obedience to such eternal precepts of righteousness , as thou thy self confessest the light within dictate , as to shadowy , elementary and perishing things . for about his saying , that was not a command to him , which was a command to another , thou didst most unjustly infer , that the law which forbids adultery , murder , theft , and bearing false witness , is no law to us ; breaking forth upon us with impiously horrid , vngodly , irreverent , patronizers of blasphemy , countenancers of novices , prophane scribler , with abundance more ; whereas p . of his works , whence the passage was taken , proves it to have been writ about extraordinary and particular cases : as , thy running to preach , because peter preacht ; or , plunging people in the thames , or elsewhere , because john baptized many in jordan : what sayest thou to this ? c thou hast a strange confidence ! if thou hadst examin'd the place my quotation referrs to , thou must needs know i have not bely'd you : if thou hast not , how darest thou thus charge me ? p. . q. my confidence is grounded upon examination : and this ranting answer will not clear thee . and the greatest kindness that can be shown thee is , to believe thou tookst the quotation first upon trust . but in this dialogue thou art left without excuse : for had e. b. intended general commands , it would not have cost thee much more trouble to prove it , then to say it ; doubtless it would have been a pleasure to thee . but as a man guilty , thou art wilfully silent about those horrid constructions made upon his words , as the genuine sense of the place , and vainly thinkest to shift it off with accusing me of strange confidence : but i return thee thy own words , if thou , t. h. hast examined the place thy quotation refers to , thou must needs know , that thou hast belyed us : if thou hast not , how darest thou thus ( continue to ) charge us ? but what sayest thou concerning shadowy ordinances ? c. forasmuch as ●hou confessest , that e.b. did plead against-such ordinances as were but shadows , appointed only for a season ; and to pass off , that such ordinances ) are no commands to us , how wilt thou prove this ? q. this is to grant , that thou art for continuing shadows under a gospel-dispensation : my reason against it is this ; shadows are members of the ceremonial law , the substance of which is the gospel : the bringing in of the gospel is the ending of them ; because shadows give way to , and end in their substance . but let me see how thou bringst me in to answer thy question ; let it be observed , that there is not the least mention in all the epistle of john of any of those ordinances , that stood in visible and corruptible elements , so that to bring in things of a shadowy and temporary nature , amongst the commands of chirst , is to abuse the apostle . what 's thy return to this ? c. let it be observed what an arrogant , abusive , prophane and impertinent man this w.p. is . suppose none of the positive institutions of christ be expresly mentioned in his epistles ; did he therefore deny them ? p. . q. to pass over thy hard names , thou dost suggest to the reader , as if this were my whole strength , in answer to thy first query , viz. how wilt thou prove shadowy ordinances to be no commands to us ? whereas it was never given by me to any such question ; nor indeed would it have been proper to do so : but since thou hardst so little sense , as to quote john's words , viz. they that love god keep his commandments , in order to prove the continuance of shadowy ordinances , i had so much sense in me , as to make use of thy own citation again●t thee , where no such ordinances are mentioned , upon which thou foolishly queries , did he therefore deny t●em ? which was not the question . but whether that place proves them : but this i am bold to infer , that it was not john 's message to recommend and perpetuate them , as thou dost : and it is strange to me , that they should be of such weight in the christian religion , and not one mention them in all their epistles , save paul once , in denying baptism a share in his commission ; and another time in regulating the corinthians about their disorderly use of the type . if bodily exercise profits little in religion , much less shadows . if men run into external performances , without the leadings and preparings of the spirit ; such duties cannot be acceptable with god , running into external imitations without internal qualifications , gives but to boast in another man's line : and such oblations are so far from being accepted , that they are abominated . to this let us hear what t. collier will say , a man of greater eminency and antiquity that t. h. in the baptist way ; i see , saith he , that external actings according t● a rule without , is nothing , if not flowing from a principle of love and life within , works p. . i perceive t. h. thou art not of that mind , so far from it as to account it error : but let us hear what else thou ha● to say , in defence of thy formal unwarranted practice c. we are certain , that our lord did walk in th● observance of positive institutions ; and he that abideth ●● christ , ought to walk as he walked , joh. . . p. . q. what makest thou forge , pervert , lye , sland●● and abuse us then ? if thou wouldst be a chr●stian , thou shouldst walk as he walked : he was lovi●● thou art envious ; he meek , thou passionate ; he lo●● suffering , thou froward ; he was good to his enemi●● thou base to thy neighbours . surely thou hast forg●● that if thou walkest , as he walked , thou must have do with that dangerous doctrine of perfection , as thou else where reputest it . but at thy rate of quoting this scripture , and following of christ , thou mayst as well bring in circumcision and the passover , as baptism and the supper . christ told his disciples , the spirit should lead them into all truth , after his ascension ; and his beloved disciple john referred the churches to the anointing . c. you tell us these ordinances were used as figures and shadows , no longer to endure , then till the substance comes , viz. the baptism of the holy ghost . the reason can be no other then the vain conceit of a deluded mind ; for they are no figures of the baptism of the spirit ; therefore this can be no reason for the abolishing of them : christ commands his apostles to teach and baptize , promising to be with them to the end of the world. q. who ever said , that breaking of bread was a figure of the spirit 's baptism ? it 's a meer fiction of thy making , as p. . of reas . against rail . will shew . but if water-baptism and breaking of bread are no figures nor shadows , they must be substances ▪ and what difference then there is between thee and popery in this point , let the reader judge . and for christ's bidding his disciples , go , teach , baptizing , matth. . i told thee , that no water was mentioned ; and that luke , in the first of the acts , sayes , before the commission mentioned by matthew could be given , at least executed , john baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy ghost , not many dayes hence : and then comes the commission in force ; go , teach , baptizing ; how ? with the holy ghost , turning people from darkness t● light , from the power of satan unto god. c. if the baptism of the holy ghost do put this commission in force , as thou saist ; then the obligation to those duties signified in the commssion cannot be taken off : if so , thy argument falls . q. a poor shuffle indeed ! does my argument fall , because thou beggest the question ? which is , whether their baptism be with water or the holy ghost ? c. if baptism of water be not intended , then none : not the baptism of afflictions ; for the apostles were not to persecute : not the baptism of the holy ghost ; for that was a promise , not a commission , p. . q. thou dost but triffle with us still : though to be baptized was a promise , yet to baptize was a commission : to be baptized not many dayes hence , was the promise of christ , but go and baptize all nations , which followeth , was a commission ; and that it was with no other baptism , christ's distinction sufficiently proves , viz. john indeed baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy ghost not many dayes hence ; stay till then ; and go , and teach , baptizing all nations , &c. c. to baptize with the holy ghost , was none of their duty , it being properly christ's work , p. . q. it was both their work and duty , witness that simon magus would have bought that gift of peter : and that paul baptized with the holy ghost , acts . did he not therein do his duty ? c. is it proper to say , i baptize you with the spirit into the name of the spirit ? q. yes , if thou hast the spirit ; unless thou wouldst make a counterfeit christiaen of him , whom thou , without the spirit baptizest into the name of the spirit : wouldst thou have a man baptized into the name , and not into the nature of the spirit ? can a man baptize into spirit and into life , without spirit and life ? god did convert , reconcile , baptize , beget and build up thousands to himself by them ; unto whom the vvord of reconciliation was committed , and who were embassadors in christ's stead . now , as for water-baptism , what paul sayes of himself , i may say of his commission , it was not behind any of the rest ; yet he denies water-baptism to be any part of it , and is as plainly rejected of him , in point of institution , as any thing in scripture . so that either water-baptism is none of christ's institutions ; or else paul had no commission to perform christ's institutions , which were strange . t. collier determines this , the baptism of christ is the baptism of the spirit . but if any of you can shew a larger commission then paul had , let him produce it : if not , i must conclude they run , and are not sent. §. vii . of the doctrine of justification i perceive ●y what thou hast writ of justification , thou inten●st to end at the rate thou hast manag'd the controversie all along ; i mean with the same shuffles and injustice . i will set down thy charge , the answer thou makest me give , and thy reply . c. thou hast holdly affirm'd that justification by that righteousness christ fulfilled for us , wholely without us , to be a doctrine of devils , apol. pag. . what sayst thou is this ? q. this apology cited , was written against a malitious priest in ireland , reas . ag . rail . p. . if thy position cannot be prov'd it will be no excuse to say , it was given to a malitious priest , yea , thy folly and rashness is the more aggravated , &c. p. . q. as if i had given that answer , not to inform persons against whom the book was writ , and the occasion of the passage , but ( as one unable to say any thing in my defence ) to extenuate the fact , and excuse my writing it . i perceive , rather then want occasions to abuse me , thou wilt make them . but what sayst thou concerning justification ? c. thou supposest the doctrine of justification by that righteousness which christ fulfilled wholely without us , to be a sin-pleasing and dangerous notion : what reason hast thou so to esteem it ? p. . q. i do so ; taking my words in my sense , and my reasons are , st , because wholely wit●out us , is an unscriptural phrase : dly , it takes away the necessity of all inward work. dly , no man is justified without faith. no man hath faith without sanctification and works ; therefore the works of righteousness , by the spirit , are necessary to compleat justification . c. whether a sincere faith is necessary to our justification , is one thing : but whether such a faith be our sole righteousness by which we are justified , is another , p. . q. and whether t. h. be not a● idle shifter is another thing . was it the question , whether our faith were the sole righteousness to justification ; or whether justification were by a righteousness wholy without us and our faith too ? if a sncere faith be necessary ; then because faith is not faith without work , justification is not wrought wholely without . i told thee before , that this doctrine of thine speaks peace to the wicked , whilst wicked . but there is no peace to the wicked , saith my god. c. it is horrible wicked to conclude , that what christ hath done and suffered without us , is to speak peace to the wicked , whilest such . q. r●g●t ; but who is the man ? not w. p. for opposing a doctrine which leaves men as wicked as it found them ; yea , encourages them in it . i appeal to the sober reader , if it be all one , to say , that justification by the righteousness of christ wholely without , which leaves the conscience as polluted as ever , is to speak peace to the wicked , whilest wicked , and to affirm , that what christ hath done and suffered without us , is to speak peace to the wicked , whilest wicked . thy indirect consequences t. h. are to obvious and numerous to deceive any ordinary reader . but what sayst thou to my distinction about justification ? christ's vvork was two-fold ; st , to remit , forgive or justifie from the imputation of sins past , such as truly repent and believe . dly , by his power and spirit working in the hearts of such , to destroy and remove the very nature of sin , to make an end of it , to finish transgression present and to come : the first removes the guilt , the second , tne cause of it : me thinks this should a little allay thy clamours . c. this distinction of the work of christ proves not what thou hast asserted : viz. that justification is not by imputation of anothers righteousness ; much less that such a justification is a doctrine of devils . p. . q. this shews thee weary of the vvork , or else ●hou wouldst not so soon after my distinction continue in thy mis-construction of my vvords , for the clearing of which , my distinction was made : i grant , that such as repent and believe receive remission , or a justifying from former sins through the righteousness of god declared in and by jesus christ . but is this compleat justification ? it is a making inwardly just , through a purging out of iniquity , and mortifying of corruption , and bringing in christ's everlasting righteousness ? if not , then to exclude this , and yet conclude men compleatly justified , by what christ hath done wholely without , is a doctrine of devils ; for it leaves men in an impure state , and allows the devils kingdom to continue in being . in short , it is as much as to say , that w. pen calls what christ hath done for men without , a doctrine of devils , because w. p. asserts that to be a doctrine of devils , which maketh all that is necessary for mans compleat justification before god , to have been wrought by christ wholely without , thereby excluding the necessity of the just-working , or just-making power of christ from man to that vvork . well , but i also told thee of the necessity of faith and repentance , even to the first part of justification ; consequently , that men cannot be justified in any sense , without regard had to any inward vvork , viz. of sanctification , without which there can be no true believing . c. though this be more close to the point then any thing thou hast spoken , yet it is not close as to prove thy position : for if repentance be but a condition , then it is not the sole righteousness for which we are justified , p . q. produce me but one passage of ours that ever spoke that langu●ge , and i will yet say thou hast not wronged us . besides this answer is wide from thy purpose , though it comes very close to mine : for from contending for justification by a righteousness wholely without ( the question ) thou art come now to contend against , a justification by a righteousness wholely within , which was not the question . c. but thou sayst abraham 's personal obedience was the ground of his being accounted righteous : if so , then we are not made just by a righteousness perform'd without us , but by a righteousness perform'd by our selves . but then , what wilt thou say to this text ; if abraham were justified by works , he hath whereof to glory , but not before god ? rom. . . p. , . q. the apostle james beares me out in what i said ; for if abraham were justified by works , as said james , then his obedience to god's spirit , which makes up those vvorks , gave him acceptance in god's sight : and let t. h. say , if he dare , that abraham was not justified in god's sight , in his resigning up isaac for a sacrifice ; and if he were , how do i err ? but that i might not be thought to oppose one apostle to another , know , reader , that the apostle james speaks of such works , as were not performed in abraham's own strength , but through faith and his obedience to god's spirit ; and therefore evangelical . and the justification they lead to , was a daily acceptance with god. the works the apostle paul speaks of , were meerly abraham 's in his own power ( as those of the jews from the law ) therefore not justifying before god in any sense ; least of all could they merit remission , or purchase abraham those great blessings and peculiar favours that it pleased almighty god to bestow upon him above others . works and justification thus distinguish'd and allow'd , prevent mens setting one in opp●sition to the other ; and here paul may come in without contradiction to james : if abraham were justified by works he hath whereof to glory , but not before god. the whole chapter concerns a justifying by the remission of sins that are past , as the following verses evid●n●e : even as david also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom god imputeth righteousness without works ; saying , blessed are they whose vnrighteousness are forgiven , and whose sins are covered . blessed is the man to whom the lord will not impute sin , rom. . , , . so that the righteousness not obtainable by the works of the law , ver . . and the justification ( which abraham's own works could not procure ) which is obtain'd by faith in the love of god , is here explain'd to be , the forgiving of iniquity , and the covering of sin. but this is far from maintaining th● compleatness of justification from a righteousness wholely without . testimonies concerning justification . erasmus . we grant to be justified by faith , that is , hearts to be purged , see fascul . rerum expetend . p. . de amabili eccles . concord . the fathers were just by the righteousness of the law in them , iren. l. . c. . noah , abraham , &c. were just by the law natural ( that is eternal ) tertullian adv. jud. p. . clem. alex. saith , that abraham was justified by faith , but that faith he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a per●ect purgation . lib. . praed . justin . martyr . defens ad . anton. saith , socrates ●ved with the word ; and that he knew christ in part , defens . ad senat. that was by the light within : how could he know him otherwise ? scultetus p. . of his medulla , saith , there are some at this day of his opinion , and that do reckon melchizedek , abimelech , ruth , rachab , the queen of saba , hiram , naaman , &c. among christians . h. bullinger d●cad . . serm . . de justif . to justifie signifieth to ●●m●t offences , to clense to sanctifie and to give utterance of life everlasting . again , justification is taken for remission of sins , for sanctification and adoption into the number of the sons of god. §. viii . of personal reflections . t. h's scurrulous language . the conclusion . thou accusest me with defending and jus●●●ying e. b. in cursing , railing and lying , and that in the name of the lord , dial. . p. , , . where it is to be observed , that thou doest not onely esteem it so thy self , but supposest me both to confess it to be such , and that notwithstanding i warrant it from the lord. these are thy black and odious insinuations and conclusions , as may at large be seen in the pages , before mentioned as if to deny them to be such , were to affirm them such ; for i know not by what other figure i allow them such . but because this cannot appear less then an absurd and incredible lye , to all that have their senses , i shall the less heed it ; but what proof doest thou bring that e. b. curses , lyes and railes ? to call what he sayes by such hard names , concludes no such thing . all i see is , that thou ry●'st to the words by him utter'd , as if a repetition were a proof : poor man ! this it is to be upon the fret , proud and passionate : e. b. must curse , lye and raile , because thou sarst so . is not this to act the dictator with a witness ? the truth is i scarce think there ever was a fouler . but thou stomackst my saying that the scripture allows those names , and retor'st , it seems you can make the scripture your rule for lying , cursing and railing . but this is as irreverently said of the scripture as abusively of us , and absurdly in it self ; can any man make them his rule for that which is impious ? i had thought that at what time any act wickedly , th●y cease to make them their rule . shall i make one of thy conclusions now against thee ? t. hicks says , the scripture may be a rule for lying , cursing and railing . but is every example a rule ? a rule always relat●s to duty ; a president or example not . is it my duty to call bad men by all the names mentioned in scripture , because there are such examples ? vvhat then should i call thee , that art as bad a man , every jot , as the worst of them ? this shews that the scripture cannot be a rule in an hundred such cases , but the particular measure of wisdom from god , that is always present , and gives to und●rstand and apply things suitably , and not upon mere imitation , where thy religion , such as it is , stands . i say , that our justifying our practice by the example of scripture , does not conclude it our rule , or any man's whatsoever , in so citing it : and therefore thy thread-bare answer , it seemes you are forc'd to make scripture your rule to prove this or that , is out of doors and to be despised , as plausible as it looks : again , ●f the scriptures be our rule in any particular cases ( and i think we live up to it more then thou d●est , witness thy three impious dialogues ) yet this concludes not the matter in question for thee ; since it proves not the scriptures to be eminently the rule , or the most eminent or general rule , &c. but t. h. why has e. b. transgress'd more than either prophets or apostles , yea then christ himself , when he ( to such carn●l men as thy self ) seemed so unkind and harsh in his answer and rebuke of peter's love and care of him , as to say , get thee behind me satan ? the priest that e. b. gave those names ( no one of which was harder then satan ) was never half so kind to him , as peter was to christ ; nay , they were entrapping questions ; such as they used to assault christ with , when they sought occasion against him , whom he called children of the devil . and we know that some of thy race t. h. in the former times when power was in your hands , diligently sought matter against us : g. fox was about the same time indicted for blasphemy , and endeavours great in some of the old pharisaical stock , thy brethren , to take away his life . e. b. knew whom and what he answer'd : and i do say , that by thy argument about the scriptures being the rule , without , further regard thou oughtest to stop thy mouth , unless thou canst prove that e. b. had not the same warrant the holy men of old had , to name thy predecessors by ; to do which , thou must come to the discerning of spirits : and by what wilt thou perform that enquiry and judgment ? how canst thou tell , whether a man using christ's words to peter , to a loving disswader of him from sufferings , that onely intends his good , is well or ill done ? the scripture is no rule for our discerning aright this case ; nor is it his duty , in case he be in the right , because christ's words are there recorded , unless he be thereto prompted , of the same power : yet if he say so , and be reproved by any ; 't is and must be granted that there is an example which shuts the mouthes , or should do , of all who respect the scripture ; which is our case with thee . well , but christ had no provocation by peter's words , but the spirit that lurkt in them , which savour'd not the work of god then doing ; to relish the like case aright there must be the same spirit ; which t. h. rejecting for the rule of right judgment , to be sure he can be no right judge of e. b. but upon his own opinion ought to be silent from further clamour against him , and repent of his scurrulous reproachful language , with which he has so often run over his grave . but thou chargest p. . nicholas lucas with saying , that if the bible were burnt , as good an one might be writ , and though he denies it , yet thou tell'st us , it is never the less a lye for that ; and that he knows his accusers . but suppose it were true , had it not more become an anabaptist , and a preacher too , ( especially , when one of the scriptures in thy title page is , a man that is an heretick , after the st and d admonition reject , who never dealt so with either him or us , that thou so hast publickly writ against as such ) first to have dealt with n l. about it ; and granting he had been so obstinate in a wicked saying , as thou dialoguest him to be , had this been a sufficient ground for thee to charge it upon the persons and principles of the people called quakers ? but now thou hast given the world a saying to measure us by , that first is of several years standing , and but lately raked up , and might have been either at first mis-apprehended , or some word forgotten or mis-placed . dly , that n. l. denies that he ever spake it , by a serious certificate in g. w's append. confirm'd by h. stout , appeal'd to by thy anabaptist informers , which thou hast not so much as attempted to invalidate . dly , that he abhors the matter contained in the story , and that without all mental reserves . and thly , that it 's charged upon , and made to be the measure of vs and our principles and motions , thereby making us to blaspheme god's spirit , as well as reprobate scripture , ( and that with no small aggravation ) who are innocent , by never speaking the words , by never countenancing such words , & by not holding the matter directly or indirectly contained in them ; and we do utterly renounce and abhor both the one and the other . well , t. hicks ! god will plead our cause against the malignity of thy slanderous spirit : no justice , no discretion could ever have led thee to this monstrous pitch of abuse : thou shewest how glad thou art to bedirt us , by making other folks lyes thy charges , and then insisting on them with as much confidence , as if thou wert infallibly assured of every jot . but we have some cause to suspect thee more then ever ; thy tale wears so many dresses : one while it is , thou mayst burn thy bible , and write as good an one thy self , contin . p. . another while , we may burn our bible , and make as good an one our self , dial. . pag. . and last of all , it is to go thus , if the bible were burnt , as good an one might be writ , ibid. p. . now , t. h. answer ; thou that pretendest to such punctuality , which of these are we to take ? the first is unlikely , because what ever we think we could do , to be sure thou canst not think that a quaker should have so good an opinion of an anabaptist woman , as that she could write another bible as good as this , that we are sure understands not this . if we must take thee in thy second account , then the woman is out in her first story : if in the last relation of this fiction , then it concerns the quakers no more then the anabaptists . for suppose the world were under one emperor , and he so impious as to enjoyn the burning of all the bibles , and all were burnt ; i hope they are not so irreligious as to limit god's power , who is almighty , that he could not furnish us with one as good as this , especially , since christians would else , as you must hold be without a rule : for i would have thee take notice t. h. that thou hast so materially varied in thy charge , that now it is not , whether , if the bible were burnt , any man could make as good an one ; but whether if it were by such impiety burnt , as good an one might not be writ , which words are general . here , t. h. to give the — his due , thou hast helpt thy fiend quaker , by bringing him in , saying , what t. h. unless he would question god's omnipotency , dare not deny . but to conclude , either these mistakes proceed from the first authors , or from t. h. if from the first authors , why should they be credited at all , who show such incertainty ? if from t. hicks ; what reason has he to be so infallibly sure of their memories , who is not sure of his own books , much less of his own memory being found in such manifest variations ? but since every just judge accounts that accuser and witness of little credit , that are found divers and inconsistent in their stories ; i hope my sober reader , who is made judge betwixt us , will in justice cashier t. hicks from all credit with him in these attempts . but as against n. l. so against s. eccles t. h. has publish● a foul slander , viz. that he should say , the scriptures are a lye. this g. w. appe●d p. . reflected upon thee , as an abusive and false charge ; to which i cannot find that thou sayst any more then this , that one of thy witnesses against n. l. can testifie that s. e. said , he used scripture , onely to satisfie him , dial. . p. . doubtless that witness has long eares , thou hangst so fast by them . but he can witness it . but why does he not ? is that put-off like to confirm the charge ? but granting thy witness remembers better against s. e. then n. l. does s. e ' s. saying , that he us'd scripture to satisfie his opponent , prove , that he said , the scriptures were a lye ? do men use to prove truths by lyes ? doth not this make s. e. imply the lye to his own principles , which he quoted scripture to prove real truths ; what sayst thou t. h. is this to ●vince the truth of thy objections and charges against the quakers , and secure thy credit with thy own and other people , that carries with it what merits the detestation and rebuke of every honest mind ? but that thou mayst go out with the same braving rant thou camest in with , and the like honesty , thou tellest thy reader , that w. p. is guilty of wilful lying , in saving , that thou disingenuously slankedst from a publick meeting , and evadedst the offer made thee by g w to that purpose : it is not unlikely but thou takest thy old way of proving , which is in the end to detect thy self of that thou chargest me w●th the guilt of . first thou sayst , that long before my book was out , thou didst desire to meet with me , and i refused . but doth this prove me guilty of wilful lying , in charging thee with evading the offer made for a publick disputation ? are the termes of a meeting for a publick disputation in thy answer ? if not , how does thy answer reach the question ? vvell , but i refus'd ; to do what ? to meet a man in private that had twice printed a knave , a fool , an heretick ▪ a blasphemer● and i know not how much more , either in those termes or in circumlocution , to the vvorld : no such matter , t. h. i never intend to release thee from the burden and shame of so many publick and manifest villanies as thou hast committed against me , a stranger to thee in all respects , and my friends in general , that it may be never heard of such a man. besides , let me tell thee , i look upon thee to be so base a person , that as i shall always desire to have nothing to do with thee ( for that cause , and not thy abilities ) so i never intend to trust my self in such private manner with any man , that is detected of such notorious perversion , lying and forgery ; there being no security to any one in common conversing with thee ; save that thou deservest no credit against any man , who hast so publickly forfeited all credit in thy numerous fictions against us . but to prove thou hast not evaded the publick meeting , thou tellest thy reader , that thou didst send six questions to g. w. to debate them upon notice in a convenient time and place ; that he refus'd ; therefore g. w. did both shuffle and lye ; which is the great shuffle of thy d. dial. in little , or the evasion or thy whole book epitomized : for as thou hast pretended in thy d. dial. that the evincement of the own objections , was all that we required or stood thee upon to do ; so here thou makest as if the discussing of those objections ( herein consider'd ) had bin all , there was any ground to dispute upon ; which was for thee , who art the abuser , to chuse a char●● for the abused to insist upon . but why didst thou no●●ell thy reader , that g. w. first sent thee a charge in writing ; and that he offered in a publick auditory to prove thee guilty of forgeries , self-contradictions and gross errours , from thy own dialogues ? instead of yielding to the test , even about matter of fact , where thou hast grossely abus'd us , thou didst in plain termes shuffle by a fresh proposal of question ; as if thou wert to teach us where and what to charge our enemies with ; and then prescribe rules ( with many taunting expressions , omitted in thy d dial , ) how to behave our selves , on purpose to evade the meeting . i would have thee know , it was our right to make the complaint ; and hadst thou been a man of any honesty , thou wouldst readily have considered it , and joyn'd issue upon our charge : this , in reputation to thy self , as well as justice to us , thou oughtst not to have declin'd ; and yet to aggravate these shuffles g. w. proffer'd in his th paper to thee a note of the particulars charg'd as forgeries &c. if thou desiredst it ; so willing was he and others to have seen thee in a publick auditory . b●t seeing this would not do , he and i went to john gladman's , desiring him to offer thee from us , we wou●d meet thee and who else to defend thee , in a publick auditory with thy dialogue in one band and the bible in the other ; the fairest of tenders ; to make thy own book the subject ; and the scriptures , ( thou sayst we reprobate ) a rule . but this thou canst not but know was also rejected : so that to conceal these shifts , nay , to say thou art shuffler , and which is worse , to charge g. w. with both shuffling and lying at what time thou art so manifestly guilty of both , is to highten thy vnworthiness to a monstrous pitch . but as the matter of thy book is injurious , so thy languague insolent and scurrulous ; intitling us cheats , impostors , a mad , arrogant , abusive , prophane m●n , knave , in discourse [ coxcomb ] impious cursers , lyars , blasphemers , most implacable enemies to the christian religion , as vile impostors as ever were , influenced and inspired by the grand impostor the devil ; calling our religion , malignant errors , a mystical romance , satan's snar●s , blasphemy , blasphemous absurd●ties , i proclaim to the world , that your religion is a meer cheat , calculated only to the service of the devil , and your own lusts : and abusing our religious language with such like expressions as these , impertinent canting ; your idle non-sensical and blasphemous prating ; termes that as much unbecome thy pretences , as they resemble the rest of thy practices . canst thou with good conscience upbraid e. b. with rebuking a priest in scripture language , whilst thou hast taken the liberty ; throughout thy dialogues , when and where thou we●t never provok'd , of such foul and frothy expressions , as becomes not any man writing of religion ? is this to make the scripture thy rule ; or to act the christian against the quaker ? and to prove the quaker none ? no such matter t. h. but much the contrary , and that in the minds of not a few , and those too , of thy own way , though of a better spirit , who have disown'd them , root and branch . i would not , after thy example , reprobate all with thee , god forbid : that god has turned these ill design'd attempts to our advantage , remember what sort of salute was lately given thee , by a religious and ingenious person in bristol ( once a preacher among the independents ) at thy reflecting upon his adhering to the way we profess , viz that he read thy dialogues before he ever read the quakers books ( or answers ) and that the disingenuity of that dealing ( apprehending it to be no real dialogue ) was a furtherance of his inquiries , and so of his convictions , grounded upon thy abuses ; an argument never to be answer'd by thee , t. h. if thou shouldst write three dialogues more , unless they were as remote from these as thou wert from honesty when thou writ'st them ; who doest first forge , and then lye and rail to maintain it . think not with these comical courses to obtain thy ends upon us , nor raze the foundation of our religion by thy abusive interludes ; in which thou hast not imitated christ , but ap'd the prophane stager ; writing a sort of mock religion instead of solid controversie ; therein playing the humourist with the vulgar , like aristophanes of old , ( though with worse malice , and less wit ) who sacrific'd the vertue and gravity of socrates and his friends , to please their enemies , and profit himself ; the hinges on which thy dialogues turn . the first is manifest , and so is the last to the value of books at an impression [ if some of thy assistants do not wrong thee , as we suppose not ] ( ask the bookseller else ) besides ●erquisites ; hereby proving thy self , one of those unruly vain-talkers , who writest things thou oughtest not for filthy lucre sake , applyed to us in thy title-page but due to thy self . and however sweet these courses may relish to thy worldly palate , thou wilt find them deadly poysonous in the end ; at what time thy own dialogues , and not i , nor any influenced by me , will prove so many assassinators in thy own bowels . god , if it please him , give thee repentance , that thou mayst escape his fierce vvrath to come . amen . now sober reader , i shall address my self to thee , and god's righteous vvitness in thy conscience , whether i have acquitted my self in this controversie as becomes a christian-man , against the violent & u●fair a●●●ults of my adversary ? and if i may not with very good reason conclude , that he has all this while but counterfeited the christian , and abused the quaker ; and consequently , that he ( and not the real quaker ) is quite another thing then a christian ? let righteous judgment take place . d th mon. . a true lover , and hearty wisher of thy souls felicity , w. p. not every one that sayth unto me , lord , lord , shall enter into the kingdom of heaven ; but he that doth the will of my father which is in heaven , mat. . . for he is not a jew which is one outward ; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh : but he is a jew which is one inwardly , and circumcision is that of the heart in the spirit ; and not in the letter , whose praise is not of men but of god , rom. . , . but us then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit , even so it is now , gal. . . but be of good chear i have overcome the world , jo. . last . pag. . line . read two first dialogues . p. . l. . r. dial. . p. . p. . l. . r. spoak . l. . r. was p. . l. . r. . p. . l. . r. of ●his . a postscript by another hand . we expect to hear what the baptists in and about london will say ( as being appeal'd to ) concerning their brother thomas hick's proceeding in his three dialogues , and whether they approve thereof , or of such play-books , or romances about religion , yea or nay ; for they are highly concerned to give judgment , and to be plain to the world herein , as they tender the glory of god , and reputation of religion , &c. now , if you the teachers and elders , &c. among the baptized people , do not publickly clear your selves of thomas hicks , and these his unjust proceedings against us ; and hereafter he further persists therein . vve may take it for granted , that you own his vvork ; and may justly deal with him , and pursue him , not only as tho. hicks , but as the baptists great champion , peculiar agent , or representative . but if you ingenuously clear your selves of him and his corrupt , perverse vvork , then his future miscarriages will be chargeable only upon t. hicks himself , and you will appear to the vvorld , so far clear thereof ; and approve your selves the more honest and sincere towards , god , truth and religion . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * not that i allow him to have rightly ch●rgd us in every thing in that sense neither . notes for div a -e * which was only admitted with respect to its illumination or measure of its appearance in man ; it was never g. w's principle or words , t●a● the life which is the light of men , joh. . is but in it se●f a me●r effect , for he owns it in its o●n being to be no other then god himse●f , and values not the counterfeit's quarrel . * t. h. takes that literally , which is metaphorically spoken , both in scripture and our books , and makes li●eral consequences upon metaphorical premises , as if ●od had hands , eyes , head , arms , could be imbondaged , broken , &c. after a worldly manner , or in ● strict and proper sense , and ●ot rather in a more hidde●● ; c metaphorical signification ; he is herein e●ther very blind or very mali●ious . i would ask him how he knows the scriptures extan● are perfect , both as to number , and copy and translations ? several books are ●oft , that is certain ; does the scripture tell us what they cont●ined ? if not , the rule is impe●fect by t. h s consequence . the copies are above thirty in number , at least , in which there are thousands of different readings ; the translators greatly differ , and have greatly c●rrupted . a●so t. h is to look to prove the present collection canonical . if he pleads the testimony of ●od within , his cause is gone ; if tradi●ion , i ask how ? is he assured the first canon was rightly made ? the council as either fa●●ible or infallible ; if the first , what assurance ha● he ? if the last , it grants infallibi●ity , since the apostles . years ; but begets the qu●stion , how does t. h. know they were in the right ? and if in one thing , why not in al● ? but those ●ouncils con●radicted ; and none ever gave the cata●ogue , as now it is ; nor can t. h. give a canon for it . and if he cannot assure us , that it is e●●ct with the orig●nal , free from variation , corruption , m●s-translation , &c. as it is not ; he can never prove it the rule , as he e●●eavour , in opposition to the spirit ; for tha● i● alwayes p●in and pe●fect . but more of thi● in the christ●an q●aker ; not to lessen scr●pture , but to con●ound such cavi●●ers . proclamation against all meetings of quakers, anabaptists, &c. scotland. parliament. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) proclamation against all meetings of quakers, anabaptists, &c. scotland. parliament. sheet ([ ] p.) by evan tyler, [edinburgh : ] imprint from wing. signed and dated at end: given at edinburgh the . day of january, . and of our reign the twelfth year. a. primerose, cls. reg. annotation on thomason copy: "feb: d "; the second in date has been crossed out. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- scotland -- early works to . anabaptists -- scotland -- early works to . freedom of religion -- scotland -- early works to . assembly, right of -- scotland -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion cr diev et mon droit . honi · soit · qvi · mal · y · pense royal blazon or coat of arms proclamation against all meetings of quakers , anabaptists , &c. charles , by the grace of god , king of great brittain , france and ireland , defender of the faith ; to our lovits , heraulds , pursevants and messengers at arms , our sheriffs , in that part specially constitute , greeting : forasmuch as by several laws and acts of our parliament , especially by the one hundred and thirty one of the eight parliament of king james the sixth . our grandfather of blessed memory ( and renewed and ratified by vs , with advice of our estates of parliament , presently conveened ) it is statuted and ordained , that none of our subjects , of whatsoever quality , state or function , conveen or assemble themselves , for holding councils , conventions or assemblies ( except in the ordinary iudgements ) without our warrand , or express licence , had and obtained thereto , under the pain made against such as unlawfully convocate our lieges : and that notwithstanding thereof , there be divers persons under the name of quakers , anabaptists , and fifth-monarchy-men , avowed enemies to our lawful authority and government , whoupon specious and religious pretences , at unlawful times and places , keep frequent meetings and conventicles together : and we , and our estates of parliament , considering what hath been the cruel tenets , and bloody practises of such in former times , and what insurrections and murthers have been committed by them in our kingdome of england , within these few dayes , and of what bad consequence their meetings may prove at this time . our will is herefore , and we charge you and straitly commands : that incontinent thir our letters seen , ye passe , and in our name and authority , inhibit and discharge all meetings and conventions of the persons foresaid , upon whatsoever colour or pretext the same may be , under the pains contained in our acts of parliament , made against unlawful convocations of our lieges : and for the better preventing of such unlawful meetings , and of any prejudice may ensue thereby , we do hereby command all magistrates of our burghs , sheriffs , constables , iustices of the peace and other our publick ministers , to make exact search from time to time , in all places where any such meeting hath been , shall , or may be suspected ; and to apprehend every such person , who shall keep , or frequent these meetings , and to commit them to the next prison , therein to remain till further order be taken with them , by such as shall have our authority for that effect ; and ordains you to make publication hereof at the mercat cross of our royal burroughs , where-through none pretend ignorance thereof , as ye will answer to vs thereupon : the which to do , we commit to you , conjunctly and severally , our full power , by thir our letters , &c. given at edinburgh the . day of january , . and of our reign the twelfth year . a. primerose , cls. reg. the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired, presented to the lord protector, and the parliament, and subscribed by luke fawne, john rothwel, samuel gellibrand, thomas underhill, joshua kirton, nathaniel web. wherin, their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent, and those books which have been published by them they call quakers, owned and vindicated, and all the rest which is in that book disowned, and their deceite laid open; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy, that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen. / by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog, called after the flesh, francis howgil. also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord, by one john griffith, against us, whom the world calls quakers, wherein his false accusations is denied, and he proved to be a slanderer, and the truth cleared from his scandals. by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world, called edward burrough. howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired, presented to the lord protector, and the parliament, and subscribed by luke fawne, john rothwel, samuel gellibrand, thomas underhill, joshua kirton, nathaniel web. wherin, their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent, and those books which have been published by them they call quakers, owned and vindicated, and all the rest which is in that book disowned, and their deceite laid open; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy, that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen. / by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog, called after the flesh, francis howgil. also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord, by one john griffith, against us, whom the world calls quakers, wherein his false accusations is denied, and he proved to be a slanderer, and the truth cleared from his scandals. by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world, called edward burrough. howgill, francis, - . burrough, edward, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for giles calvert, at the black-spread eagle at the west end of pauls., london, : . annotation on thomason copy: "nou: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng griffith, john, ?- . -- voice from the word of the lord. second beacon fired. quakers -- england -- early works to . persecution -- early works to . freedom of religion -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the fiery darts of the divel quenched; or, something in answer to a book called, a second beacon fired,: presented to the lord protector, a howgill, francis c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the fiery darts of the divel quenched ; or , something in answer to a book called , a second beacon fired , presented to the lord protector , and the parliament , and subscribed by luke fawne , john rothwel , samuel gellibrand , thomas vnderhill , joshua kirton , nathaniel web . wherin , their lies and slanders are made manifest against the innocent , and those books which have been published by them they call quakers , owned and vindicated , and all the rest which is in that book disowned , and their deceite laid open ; how they have perverted the truth and our words in those books which they cry out of as blasphemy , that the truth may not suffer under the reproach of the heathen . by one who is a witnesse for the truth against gog and magog , called after the flesh , francis howgil . also something in answer to a booke called a voice from the word of the lord , by one john griffith , against us , whom the world calls quakers , wherein his false accusations is denied , and he proved to be a slanderer , and the truth cleared from his scandals . by one who is a witnesse against the deceits of the world , called edward burrough . london , printed for giles calvert , at the black-spread eagle at the west end of pauls . . first of all you go about and flatter the powers and the magistrates , and tells them they ought to have a care of their peoples souls in keeping them from infection of idolatry and blasphemy , and you say you are to informe them of the dangerousnesse of great meeting in london of quakers , whose opinions are blasphemous , paganish , antiscriptural and anti-christian , even as the former . and further , the greatest thing that troubles you , is printing and publishing books many thousands , you say , concerning blasphemous and heretical , and antimagistratical opinions tending to unchristian people , and disorder the people of the nations , and to bring in paganisme , and libertinisme , and this you say you present unto them to provoke their zeale against them . oh you blood thirsty minded men , all the care that you would have the magistrates to take of the people is to destroy them , and to have them shut up in holes and caves , and dens , and prisons , and the truth ever suffered by your generation , and your generation hath ever pressed the magistrates that they might abuse their power , and if they will but hearken to you , instead of healing the people , they will be destroyers ▪ and in stead of making up breaches , they will make desolate , and so you would drive them on hastily to satisfie your corrupt wil , and to uphold your diana , and your craft , that you may make merchandize of that which hath been long enough sold and printed by you ; and what hath it done ? who is turned from darknesse to light ? and you that makes a trade of others writings and words , to maintain you in your lusts , and deceive , this you would have them to uphold ; but as for the care of peoples soules , it s far enough from you , and all along your filthy lying slanderous booke , you are made manifest to bee of those that would have fire to come down from heaven in your wils to destroy all those that withstand you and your imaginations . and therfore let all magistrates in whom the fear of the lord is , take heed how they take things from the hands and mouthes of them who hath alwaies persecuted the power of truth , and called truth errour , and light darknesse , and darknesse light ; and in a blind zeale for god , destroy them whom the power of the lord is manifest in ; for so paul persecuted christ , and the saints , and so the jewes crucified christ , and all the saints have suffered . and you are offended at our meeting in london , while wee have beene here in the city wee have not been in a corner , and wee challenge you and all the city in the name of the lord , who is dreadfull to all liers , and slanderers , to show what are those blasphemies that you speake of , you backbiters shall have your portion with the rest of hypocrites : opinions we deny , for the light of jesus christ which is spirituall which appears and declares against all sects , and opinions , and blasphemies , and all you who hates it , are in contention , and in opinions , and blaspheme the truth ; and here i charge it upon you in the presence of the living god , that you are blasphemers who calls the light naturall and paganisme ; and the lord wil plead with you , you filthy corrupt minds , who calls the light of christ . antichristian , for here in the presence of the lord of hosts ▪ i speake it , no other light doe wee owne to walk by , but that which is spiritual and eternal , the light of christ , which he hath enlightned every one that comes into the world withal ; and this is not anti-scriptural as thou cals it ; for the scriptures witness the same , and christ bears witness of it , and no other light do we own but the same that ever was , which was in the beginning , and which convinceth the world of sin , and the same that led up the saints to know the father and the son : and you that cal this paganisme and heretical , and blasphemous , and antichristian , let all who have any light in them judg , and let shame cover your faces , and fear take hold upon you , for your words stinke , and come out of the mouth of the dragon ; ye filthy unclean frogs , which hath poison under your tongues ▪ and as for the bookes which wee have printed , wee owne them , and are ready to lay downe our lives for the testimonie of jesus , and the truth of them , and seale them with our blood , and what are written in them , through the eternal power of god , which is made manifest , and that wee have published any thing against any just magistracie , let all our writings , and all who reade them judge ; and if bearing witnesse to jesus christ unchristians people , let all judge ; for no other do wee owne , but the same christ to day and yesterday , and for ever ; and here all your petitioning is made manifest , from whence it did arise and proceed , and your shame and nakednesse , and envie appears . and the sacraments which you say you use , which is appointed in the scripture , and farnworth in answer to a petition did deny them . answer , his answer we owne ; and i challenge you to bee perverters of the scripture ; where read you of sacraments in the scripture ? here i charge you to be liers and slanderers , and deniers of the scripture , and adders to it , and the plagues shall be added to you ; and as for that which you use among you is traditional and imitatory . yet the bread which wee break is the communion of the body of christ , and the cup wee drink is the communion of the blood of christ , and this is that which paul received from him : and baptisme by one spirit into one body we owne ; the baptisme is but one , and this wee owne , and here you liers and slanderers are seen and denied . another thing you call heresie and blasphemy , is , that wee say that christ hath enlightned all men ; but i shal lay downe your own words , and prove you liers out of that booke called the general good to all people : and you say the light of god that is in all men , that is to wit , natural conscience , that it is sufficient , if wee give heed unto it , to discover sinne , and and turne our minds towards god , and that this light within , is the grace of god , and that it is christ in us . answer , let all that reades that booke , see if you bee not liers and slanderers , and perverters , and are in the generation of those false witnesses which bore witnesse against christ ; and here i charge you to be liers . where in all the bookdoth he say that the light of a natural conscience is sufficient to guide to god , if it be taken heed to ? or where doth it say it discovers sin ? there is another lie : and where doth hee say that natural conscience is the grace of god ? there is a third lie ; and where doth hee say that natural conscience is christ in us ? there is a fourth lie ; bee ashamed that ever you should goe and present so many filthy lies to authority that there is no truth in at all . oh ▪ yee darke mindes , would you be judging and prescribing what is heresie and blasphemie , and cals the light of christ paganisme and heresie ? but i am bold in the name of the lord , to declare unto you , and unto all the world , that christ is the true light that hath enlightned every one that comes into the world , and that this light is spiritual , and not natural , and it convinceth of all sinne ; hee shal convince the world of sinne , and whoso obey this light which shines into the conscience , it leads up to christ , and out of sinne , and it turns the mind towards god , and it shines in darknesse ; but you dark sottish children know it not ; yea , you that hate it , have it , and it shal condemne you , and when the book of conscience shall be opened , you shall be judged for all your hard speeches against the truth . another thing you present to be blasphemie and heresie , is that the worship that is performed in england with those ministers that sing davids psalms , baptize infants , weare double cuffes , boot hose tops , take tithes , say men shal never be perfect in this world , and that say the letter is the light , and the letter is the word ; and that salvation is in the scripture , and that cals matthew , mark , luke & john , the gospel , are seducers , and no ministers of the word , but shew forth the spirit of error . answer . all those ministers in england which abide not in the doctrine of christ ▪ all those worshippers and worships which is contrary to the scripture are heathenish , and they worship they know not what ; and all such worship is an abomination to the true god ; and i charge you and all those that would be counted ministers in england , to prove from the scripture where the saints sung davids conditions , and psalms in rimes and meter ; and where is there any scripture for baptizing of infants ▪ and whether any of the ministers of christ lived in pride and lusts of the flesh , and where any ministers of christ took tithes , which belonged to the first priesthod and the first covenant ; and so they that uphold the first , denie the second , and the one everlasting offering which perfects for ever them that are sanctified ; and where doth the scripture say that the letter is the word and the light ? but it witnesses against you and saith , god is the word , and christ is the light , and christ is the gospel , yea the everlasting gospel ; and mathew , marke , luke and john declared of him : and heare be you a witnesse against your self , ye dark minded men : and i charge you that you deny the scripture ; and all those who upholds those things are in the heathenish nature , without god in the world , in the earth where the divil dwels who is an accuser of the bretheren : and doth not the scripture and they declare it who were ministers of christ , that there were that ran after the errour of balaam , and their hearts was exercised with covetous practises ? and were there not such that was raylers , and false accusers , and blind watchmen , and greedy dumb dogs , and such as sought for their gaine from their quarter , and such as lead into wichcraft , and antichrists , deceivers ? you might as wel have called christ , and paul and peter and jude blasphemers and hereticks ; but you are made manifest just to be them and in the same nature that called christ a blasphemer , and paul a pestilent fellow , and a setter forth of strange gods , and the ministers of christ seditious ; and thou might as wel say christ despised a governor when he called herod a fox ; and now blessed be the lord the houre of his judgments is come : and we freely declare against all deceit both in magistrates , priests and people as they did that wrote forth the scripture , and beare witnesse to his name as they did , in our measure , and we have suffered and do suffer dayly by slanderous tongues , such as you have ; and imprisonments , and cruel mockings , and stripes , and bonds , and can truly say to the praise of his name , we beare in our bodies the markes of the lord jesus ; but we must passe through good report and evil report , and it is our crown and rejoycing to suffer for his name ; and now gog and magog and all the powers of the earth bends themselves and are angry , even the nations that professe christ in words , and say the scripture is their rule , but walke not according to it ; and against all such hypocrisie are we witnesses , to the fulfilling our testimony , and the laying down of our lives , that he alone may be honored who sits upon the throne of david , and of whose government there is no end , to whom be praise for ever , who shall breake all your combinations and plots , and you shall be ground to powder who set your selves against him , and be dashed to pieces as a potters vessel . and now to that which you call antimagistratical errors , that the magistrates are not to have titles of worshipful or right worshipful , and that the subjects of a common wealth which is not israels common wealth are to be disturbed , and that no civil government is to be acknowledged but the government of the law within us . answer . where reads thou or any , that any magistrate was called worshipful or right worshipful , or ever any of the saints of god did so ? he that is righteousnesse and truth , unto whom all honor and worship belongs , god blessed for ever , we owne and worship , he is no respecter of persons . and you filty flaterers who are in the curse , respect mens persons , and so you are rased out for ever from the faith of christ , and from the faith which all the holy men of god lived in , that you know it not : but you false accusers , magistrates we know , and they are for the punishment of evil doers and for the lawlesse , for liers and slanderers , such as you are , and for the praise of them that do wel , and we honor such in our hearts , and obeys their just commands ; and are not like him that said he would goe and went not , but are subject for conscience sake to the powers that are of ●od , and are subject to every ordinance of man for the lords sake ; but we cannot flatter nor respect mens persons and deny the faith of christ , but are brought from under the power of unrighteousnesse by the mighty power of god , and are subject to all just lawes which stand not , nor were made in mans wil , but obeys them for consciences sake , and if any law which is not just nor equal be required upon us that wee cannot do ; wee suffer for conscience sake , and resist not at all , as many of our enemies will witnesse for us ; and therefore you false accusers be silent ; they that are subject to israels commonwealth are righteous , and walkes in righteousnesse , in that which is just , good and holy ; and wee witnesse against all the canaanites who walk in unrighteousnesse , and all who are enemies to the commonwealth of israel must be broken to pieces , and them that strive and contend against the faith which was once delivered to the saints , and is now witnessed , praysed be the lord , all such must be disturbed and broken to peices by the just , even all the unjust shal be broken ; and as for that which thou sayest wee say , we ought not to be subject to any civil government but that which is within us , oh thou lyer , when wilt thou cease thy lying ? where is that ? i charge thee to prove where that is spoken : yet this i say unto all , moses received the law from the mouth of the lord , and it was revealed to him , and in him , and then he wrote it without and was subject to it , and all who makes laws now and doe not receive them from god , they make them in their own wils , and such as doe act contrary to the law of god ; but that law which is righteous , which is according to that in the conscience , which is holy and good and civil , we are subject both within and without to it : and all you your subjection which is not from a principle within , is not in truth not singlenesse of heart , but with flattery , and your eye service and your bowing downe in hypocrisie and saying you are subject when there is no truth in the heart , and so you are not subject for conscience sake . and further , you say in farnworth general good to all people , let every soule be subject to the higher powers , by powers is meant god , the father of jesus christ , and by king the lord of hosts , and that is another blasphemy . woe unto filthy lyers ; i challenge you that you have perverted his words , and would give meanings upon them as you do upon the scriptures , and your owne dark sottish mindes cannot comprehend , and therefore you give your own imaginations , and then calles it blasphemy ; and let all that read that booke , see if you have not belyed the truth , and perverted his words another thing you set downe for blasphemy , that none are ministers of god and called by him who are sent forth by authority of man , and that he that is not infallible in his judgement , is no minister of christ . answer . you might have said pauls words were blasphemy ; he was made a minister , not by mens wil , and all the holy men of god , and apostles were not ministers by the will of man , but contrary to the wil of man , and all who are made ministers of man , and by man , we deny , and the scripture denies them , for what they preached , they neither received it of man nor from man , but by the revelation of jesus christ ; and all who have and are made ministers by heare say , and what they have formed up in their imaginations from the scripture , with their points , and their doctrins , which they raise in their carnall mindes , all such we declare against ; and all such who abide not in the doctrine of christ , and all who were made ministers of christ , were spiritual and infallible ; that which is not infallible , is carnall : and all who are guided by the spirit of christ is infallible , and they that are not guided by it are none of his , nor the sons of god , nor ministers of christ : and therefore , all that such can judge of , is nothing but imaginary ; and all you who have subscribed this booke , and all such ministers i deny . yee shamelesse men , would you be trying and perscribing , and set dowe what is heresie , and blasphemy ; and cryes out of that for heresie , and blasphemy ; which you should try with all ? your shame is laid open to all , and now your shame i hope will appeare to the parliament , whom you petition . what cry you out against books , and printing , and blasphemy , that cannot distinguish a lamb from a dog ? would you judg truth by darknesse ? and you are offended that there are so many quakers met in the north parts lately , two thousand ; yea blessed bee the lord , there are many thousands that sees you , and never will bow to baal , nor worship in the house of rimmon more ; and m●ny shal not only come from the north , but also from the south , yea in london , that now sees all your deceit , and they shal enter , and you shal be shut out . and what truth is this that cannot defend it selfe ; and what religion is that which cannot defend it selfe , but you must have all bend to your image that you would set up ? and now unto you who are petitioned unto ; i say , unto you , take heed and beware how you call or suppresse any thing as error , or how you meddle in the prescribing god a way to walke in , for he cannot , he will not be limited : and i say unto you , it were better a milstone were hanged about your necks , then to hinder or stop , or make any law to hinder the passage of the truth which is arising : and consider the lord hath thrown out all powers before this because they would needs limit the holy one of israel , and prescribe him a way , and a government how he should be worshipped , and many have suffered , and what hath all come to ? all the rules that men hath laid down , hath they not beene as the untimely fruit of a woman and as corne upon the house top , and for that all hath beene throwne downe , and broken ? and the jealousie of the lord is broken forth as fire , and and woe to them that withstands him in his way : and now i say unto you , if you now prescribe god a way , and if that in the conscience have not liberty , but you wil goe about to set bounds to him , and his people in the worship of god , you shall be broken as a potters vessel , for the government is upon his shoulders , and he wil not give his glory to any other ; the lord hath spoken it . and for the rest of the bookes in the beacon fired , wee disowne them ; but i believe you have belied them , as you have done ours . a certaine book being come forth into the world , ful of lies and slanders against the innocent , called a voice from the word of the lord , to those grand impostors called quakers ; to the author of which book ( who calls himselfe j●hn griffith , a servant of christ ) and to all to whomsoever it may come , i am moved to write something in answer , that his lies and slanders , and false r●proaches may be made manifest , and that he may proceed no further ; for as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so doth he resist the truth , being a man of a corrupt mind , and reprobate concerning faith , and is not a servant of christ , nor a witnesse for his name , but a child of disobedience , in whom the prince of the aire rules . and first to the title of thy book , i answer , the word of the lord is powerful , and wil cut thee down , thou sensual minded man ; yet thou knowest not , but takes the words of others declared from the word vvhich vvas in them , and thou useth thy tongue , and saith the lord saith it ; but i say unto thee , the lord hath not spoken unto thee , neither commanded thee to speak of his name : and i charge it upon thee in the presence of the lord god of life , that thou art of that generation which jeremiah was sent to cry against , jer. . . for thou speakes thy imaginations upon their words which dwelt in the life of god ▪ but the life thou knowest not , and thy whole book is no more but an empty sound and voice , & is as the untimely fruit of the womb which wil wither and perish away : and one of them i am whom thou calls quakers , to whom thou saist , thou directs thy speech ; but that wee are grand impostors , i do denie , for we are gathered up into the life which the holy men of god lived , and are fallen from the world , and from its wayes and nature : and i charge thee here to be a slanderer , and from the mouth of the lord i do declare unto thee that thou must have a slanderers reward . and vvheras thou saist thou hast discovered their fleshly and filthy mindednesse , together vvith the judgments of god attending them . i answer . fleshly and filthy mindednesse , we have denied by the power of the sonne of god made manifest in us ; thou hast laid it to our charge , but thou hast not proved it nor discovered it , and here againe thou art a false accuser ; fleshly and filthy mindedness shal stand for thy ovvne condition ; for there thou art in the flesh and filth , living to thy vvil in the lust of uncleanesse , for you may remember thou came out of the bowling allie to our meeting , though pharisee like thy out side is painted and made clean , but thy heart is ful of enmity and lies , and slanders and false reproaches , to that in thy conscience i do speake which shal for ever vvitnesse me , and as for the judgments of the lord upon thy own head wil they fal , and with what measure thou metes it shal be measured to thee again ; we are passed from judgment , and from the condemnation , and who art thou , thon enemy of righteousnesse , that shal lay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? and whereas thou saiest thou art one that bears witnesse against those wandring starres . i answer , this shal stand for thy owne condition , a wandring star thou art , and hath no habitation in the heaven , but speaks swelling words of vanity , thou thy self being a servant of corruption , we have an abinding place , and an habitation in the lord , and are not wandring ; and here againe i charge thee to be a false accuser , and a false witnesse , who bears witnesse of thy selfe ; for the father bears no witnesse of thee , but against thee . whereas thou saist the most high god that made the heavens and the earth , hath moved thee and stirred thee up to bear witnesse to the truth , and to witnesse against the abmoinable fleshly mindednesse , and yet spiritual pride of those grand impostors called quakers , by whose sorceries many are bewitched and drawn from the simplicity of the gospell , to another gospel , which is not another gospel , but the vanity of their owne minds , and their owne fleshly and corrupt thoughts which they cry up as oracles of god . i answer ▪ the most high god judge between thee and us ; whose wrath is kindled against thee ▪ thou enemie of righteousnesse , and child of wrath ; thou hast belied the lord of heaven and earth , for to this he moved thee not , for he moves none to utter lies and slanders as thou hast done , but the spirit of enmity and of the divil hath moved thee , and to the truth thou beares no witnesse , but against the truth , and against the innocent ; and charges us with fleshly mindednesse and spirituall pride . o thou lier and false accuser , the lord who takes our part against thee will plead with thee , and render upon thy head according to thy deedes ; prove what thou speaks that we are fleshly minded and spiritually proud , or else let thy mouth be stopped and shame cover thee for ever ; sorceries and witchcraft and drawing from the simplicity of the gospel wee doe deny ; but the plaine single truth wee doe declare , by which the eye of the blind is opened in many to see your deceits who call your selves churches and preachers of the gospel ; which is not the gospel that the apostles preached but an adding your own imaginations upon their words , who witnessed the gospel , and it shal stand for thy own condition , thou art in the sorcery and witchraft ; who draws people to observe an outward visible thing , from the light of christ within them ; which leades to the simplicity of the gospel , which is inward and not outward ; and thou art in thy fleshly and corrupt thoughts , crying up the ordinances and oracles , of god , which are but carnal and beggerly rudiments of the world , which passeth away ; and here thou art seen and made manifest in the light of christ , to be a hypocrite , who false accuses others of that which thou art guilty of thy selfe ; the same gospel as ever was , doe we declare ; and not another , which wee received not from man , neither was taught it by man : and as the oracles of god it shall stand for ever for a witnesse against thee , and all the world who doth not believe , for even the father beares witnesse of us , and therefore our witnesse is true ; and the righteous god will plead with thee thou lyar and false accuser , and here be a witnesse against thy selfe that the lord moved thee not , but the divil , acting in thy owne imaginations , and in the vanity of thy one minde , and in thy one fleshly and corrupt thoughts ; and whereas thou sayest to us thou directs thy speech from the lord , thus saith the lord to thee o quaker , thou art fleshly minded . i answer , it is not the voyce of the lord to us that speaks in thee , but the voyce of the divil , and the serpent which speaks from thee : fleshly minded we are not , but are redeemed out of it , and our mindes are changed and are spiritual and 't is the spirit of the living god seales unto us and witnesses in us , and here thou art of thy father the old dragon , an accuser of the bretheren , but it is god that justifies , and who art thou that condemns ? and this thy speech is seene and comprehended , which thou hast directed to us , and it is judged by the spirit of true judgment to be a false accusation and a lie , and not the word of the lord , and into the lake amongst the false prophets thou art to be turned , who useth thy tongue when the lord never spake to thee ; and thou saiest we looke upon the institution of christs supper with a fleshly and carnal eye , because wee say that the bread and wine which christ commanded his disciples to eate and to drinke , is carnall . i answer . the bread , and wine , is visible and carnal , and fleshly , and not spiritual , nor eternal , and in the eternall light by the spiritual eye of god opened in us , we see them and do owne that it was a command of christ , to stand for its time , and no more , but a carnal figure of a spiritual thing , and the spiritual thing being the substance bearing witnesse , the figure is denyed and declared against , and thou and thy generation who art acting in those things by tradition tying and limiting god to a visible thing ( that without it no salvation ) art in the sorcerie and witchraft , and an enemie to the substance ; for christ never since he was sacrifised brake of the bread or dranke of the cup with his disciples , but new in his fathers kingdome ; and thou who art in the carnal figure acting those things without the injoyment of christ art sensual and by the light of christ is to be condemned and juged , with the world , who art without god and without the injoyment of christ , in the beggerly rudiments of the world , thou saist o fleshly minded men whom the god of this world hath blinded because you believe not : and thou sayst , thus saith the lord and speaks the prophet mal. words : to which i answer ; this again i do deny ; the god of the world is cast out , and the eye is opened through judgment , and our fleshly minds are judged , and in the name of jesus we do believe , and our belief in him hath purified our hearts ; to the praise of the living god , who hath wrought all our works in us , and for us , do i speake without boasting ; and here againe i charge it upon thee , that thou art a slanderer and a false accuser ; and let shame cover thee who professes thy selfe to be a teacher of others , who thy selfe is not taught of the lord ; but steals malachies words , and speaks them to us in thine own imaginations , and calls it the word of the lord ; the lord is against thee thou false prophet , who prophesies lies in his name ; and that which thou speaks to us is thy owne condition , and that which shall come upon thine own head , for a child of disobedience thou art , and thy eye is blinded by the god of this world ; and whereas thou saiest wee are spiritually proud , that give forth our selves to bee some great ones ; and wee say wee are apostles , and are not , but are found liers , proud pharisees , hypocrites , that say wee are just , holy , humble ; and the poor sinful publicans are more justified then wee ; i answer ; proud wee are not , our god shall judge between thee and us in this thing , for wee have nothing but what wee have freely received from him : and that we give forth our selves to be great ones ; here thou art a lier , and a false accuser again ; this we have said , and do yet again declare that we were moved of the lord of heaven and earth to come to declare his mind and his truth in this city ; but this is no boasting , and by that same spirit which was in the apostles , were wee moved , and are guided , and by no other , but who hath found us liers since wee came , i challenge you , and all thy sect to prove one lie that wee have uttered ; or else let shame cover thee , and let thy mouth be stopped ; and let thy owne heart condemne thee to be found the lier thy selfe ; and this we testifie against thee , and all the world , that by jesus , and in him are wee made holy , just , and humble , he is made these things in us , and for us ; and the publican state is witnessed by us who have passed through the figure and parable into the life and substance ; and whereas thou saist wee that boast of our light within , and faith , thus saith the lord and brings christs words . i answer , this is another lie , wee doe not boast of our light within , but vvee vvitnesse it to bee within us , and to have enlightned every one that comes into the vvorld ; vvhich thou and thy generation denies ▪ and so vvould make christ a lier , and the scripture a lie ; but against you all with all the vvorld vve beare testimony , and the father beares vvitnesse with us , that every man that comes into the world is lightned by the light of christ ; which teaches all that love it into righteousnesse , but condemns them that hate it , wherof thou art one who utters forth thy lies and slanders , and false accusations against the innocent ; and that scripture john . we owne , and do witnesse to be fulfilled in us by the coming of christ ; hee which did see , is blind , and hee which was blind now sees ; and while wee did see our sin remained , but being blind wee have no sinne ; but this to thee and to thy spirit is a mystery sealed , and never to be known in that nature and wisdome ; and here againe thou hast used thy tongue false prophet like , and must receive a false prophets reward . and whereas thou saist if christ had not spoke to us in his word , we had had no sin , but now wee have no cloak for our sinne . i answer . christs words we owne , but here thou art made manifest to all to be an adder to the scripture ( in his word ) this thou hast added false prophet-like , and therefore the lord will adde his plagues unto thee as the scripture saith ; bee ashamed and blush , thy folly and wickednesse is made manifest , who is not ashamed ( to carry on thy designe ) to adde to christs words . and whereas thou saiest , wee do not only neglect the weightier matters of the law , but the law it selfe , teaching men so to doe ; for wee said that the scripture is not the rule of faith and conversation , as one of us taught sept. . in thy hearing , and many others that will witnesse it . i answer , here i challenge thee to prove that thou hast spoken , and all thy witnesses which thou speakes of ; oh thou lier be ashamed to forge such lies , and declare them in writing for truth , we neglect not the weightier matters of the law , nor the law , nor teach any so to do ; all that ever heard us wil bear witnesse against thee , and they ( though our enemies ) shal witnesse for us , and against thee in this thing , for we declare the everlasting gospel , which is the fulfilling of the law , and this we declare , that the law must have its operation through , before the gospel be witnessed ; and one of thy owne society said to us , wee had preached the law , and brought men to understand it from grace ; now let all take notice of the confusion you live in , and let your owne hearts condemne you , and the light in your owne consciences convince you , that you are in babylon and in confusion , and are no true church of christ , where all are of one heart , and one mind ▪ and this againe i affi●me as before i did in thy hearing , that the scripture is not the saints rule , but the spirit which gave forth the scripture , as the scripture it self witnesses , rom. . faith was before the scripture was , and therfore the scripture is not the ground of it , but a declaration of it , and no other faith we owne but the faith which abel had , and which moses had , which was when no scripture was written , and that we own to be the rule of our conversation , which they walked by , the immediate spirit of god which was before the scripture was written ; and all you who professe the scripture to be your rule , your own rule shal testifie against you when the eternal god judges you , and they vvho vvitness that to bee their rule which gave forth the scripture , walkes up in the life of the scripture more then you all ; and you are proved to be but the jew outward , who bosts of the ordinances from the letter , but persecutes them by slanders and false reproaches , who witnesse the substance ; and your praise is only of men , and not of god ; and the same woe which thou pronounces upon us wil fall upon thy owne head for this thy grievous slander , that we neglect the law , and teach men so to do ; and whereas thou brings many scriptures , and saith thus saith the lord , i answer , the scriptures we owne , and by that spirit which speaks them forth , wee witnesse them to be true , and they are ours ; and though you say they are the savour of death to us that perish , yet thou art found a lier , for wee are saved out of the perishing state , and death is destroyed through death , and thou hast diminished ( through faith ) from that scripture tim. . . false prophet like againe , and so art both an adder and a diminisher , and thou maist read thy portion in rev. . , . and whereas thou saiest , know this thou perverter of the right way of god , thou shalt bee judged by the word of christ spoke . i answer , here thou sets the scripture in the roome of christ , and art the perverter of the right way of god thy selfe , for the scripture saith , all judgement is commited to the sonn , and the scripture is not the sonne ; and thou didst say and now againe writes , that the scripture shall judge the vvorld ; and so i charge it upon thee that thou art a blasphemer , vvho exalts the scripture above the sonne , of god , and shalt be judged by the sonne into utter drrknesse , and into the pit , from vvhence thou art come ; yet this i testifie , he that receives the sonne rejecteth not those vvords vvhich vvas spoken by him ; though thou and thy generation pharisee like may make a profession of the vvords vvhich christ spoke and yet reject the sonne , and all to vvhom christ speaks , vvhich receives him not , shall be judged by the vvord vvhich he speaks , for he speaks eternally which shal stand eternally ; but when did he speake to thee ? for this i doe declare , thou maist have those words which he spoke , and yet never have heard his word nor voice ; as the pharisees had those words , which god spake by the prophets , but never had heard his word , nor seen his shape . john . . and thou saist quake and tremble at this ; that word which you reject and dispise shall judge you at the last day ; and saith , thus saith the lord , and brings christs words , and the apostles words ; i answer . the lord rebuke thee thou scorner , here thou hast made the filthynesse of thy heart knowne , for out of the abundance thereof thy mouth speaks : here thou art seen to be a scorner ; quaking and trembling we own , it is that which the holy men of god witnessed , but here be a witnesse against thy self , that thou art a scorner of their conditions : what hast thou to doe to talk of the scrip●ure , who art scorning that which it declares of ? here thou art made manifest to be one that hath the form but denies the power , and scornes at it ▪ god scornes thee , thou scornful one ; and let all that feare the lord depart from thee , and see thy filthinesse and search the scripture whether it testifies not of that , which thou scornes at , and makes a mock upon . and that we reject and despise the scripture and the words which christ spake , which thou accusest us of ; this is another lie , and a false slander , for the scriptures vve ovvne in their place , and by the spirit of god sets to seale that they are true , but that they shall judge the vvorld vvee doe deny ; and herein thy ignorance doth appear , and that thou art blinded by the god of this vorld , which thou vvould cast upon us : and christs vvords , and the vvords of the apostles shall fall upon thy own head , for vengeance in flames of fire will the lord render upon thee , thou lier and slanderer and false accuser , who art in disobedience to the gospel of god . and whereas thou saist the lord hath spoken it , and it shall surely come to passe , and bringst many scriptures , i ansvver . the scriptures vve ovvn and vvhat is spoken in them shall be fulfiled ; but thou lier when did god speake this to thee ? the judgements pronounced in them shall fall upon thy ovvn head , because thou art guilty of the same iniquities , as they vvere of , against vvhom these scriptures vvas declared ; and wheras thou saist we are those that the lord before hath spoken of in his vvord , ( and therefore no marvel vve vvould not have men to reade it ) and cites the . of peter . . chap. i ansvver . i doe in the presence of the living god deny thee & thy false assertion , but it shal stand for thy owne condition ; thou art one in the generation which christ spake of , and that vvas in the apostles dayes , which hath the forme , but denies the power as they had ; and i charge thee againe with a lie in thy mouth who saith , we would not have men to read the scriptures ; they who have heard us shall witnesse against , thee , that wee do direct to search the scripture , whether our doctrine be not true , and by the scripture shal our doctrine be tried ; how long wilt thou utter thy lies in the name of the lord ? the lord will plead with thee thou unclean lying spirit , and that which thou pronounces against us , shal come upon thy selfe ; and thou saiest we through covetousnesse make merchandize of some ; wee challenge thee and all the city of london to prove this , thou lying serpent , god shall plead with thee , wee are free and cleare in the sight of god , of thy false accusations , and have desired nor sought after no mans mony , nor gold , nor apparel , god is our witnesse , and many in this city knowes the same , though thou slanderingly an enemie of god doth accuse us ; but i challenge thee in thy reply to this , make it appear what thou assertest , or lay thy hand upon thy mouth , and let shame strike thee in the face for ever ; i charge thee that thou canst make appeare plainly in particular , and do not darkly accuse us , what those damnable heresies are , which we bring in , and wherein we deny the lord , and what our pernicious waies are which thou falsly and slanderously accuses us of , and wherein wee are fleshly and despise government , and are presumptuous , and wherein or how wee speake evil of dignities , and wherin we are as natural bruit beasts , and what these things are , wee speake evil of which wee know not , and what our swelling words of vanity are , and whom we do allure through the lusts of the flesh , and through much wantonness . in the presence of the lord i challenge thee to prove the particulars of thy accusations , and not to slander in the darke , though such as these there were in the apostles daies , who were turned out from the light , and the apostles which dwelt in the light saw them , and such a generation there is now , they are seene and known where they are , by them who abides in the light ; but of these thy false slanders ▪ upon us , we are cleare in the presence of the lord god , and that portion which thou wouldest give unto us must thou have thy self , for with what measure thou hast meted , it shal be measured to thee againe ; even the blaknesse of darknesse for ever , and the day of the vengeance of god is at hand against thee . and wheras thou saist , we pretend to tremble , it is true , we pretend the example of moses , and thou saist o abominable hypocrysie and dissimulation , will that justifie your shaking your hands like idiots , and your raving like mad men ? moses was a man in whom the fear and dread of the lord was , who kept his word , but you dispise it ; who loved the law , but you reject it . i answer . we doe not only pretend to tremble , but oft doe we , and have we witnessed it , by the mighty power and dread of the lord upon us , and we walke not by the example of the servants of the lord without us , but the same power we witnesse which was in them by which they were made to tremble ; vvhich thou scornes and derides at , and calles it madnesse : the holy men of god vvere counted by such as thou art , mad men ; and vvere cast out of their assemblies vvhich trembled at the vvord of the lord : but that vve despise the vvord and lavv of god , here thou art a lier againe ; and the plagues of god hang over thy head ▪ for thy lies and slanders against the innocent ; the same seare of god vvhich vvas in moses vve vvitness , and no other , and thou vvho art vvithout it art a heathen , and moses , and jeremiah , and habbakuk , which thou speaks of , were our example , who walked by the same spirit ; and served the lord by the same spirit , but that wee served our fleshly lusts ▪ which here again thou accusest us of ; i do challenge thee to prove it ; but i know thou canst not , and therefore art in the nature of the divel accusing the brethren ; and to walk by tradition , wee deny , which you also would lay to our charge ; but the same spirit by which they were acted , acts us the same way according to its measure ; and the same light which they walked in is our light , and this light is the light of christ within us and not without us : and whereas thou saiest its true , if wee served the lord , and kept his word , it would make us to tremble , as it doth those that fear him , but wee have rejected the law of the lord , and the word which hee hath spoken ; and the lord when he comes to shake terribly the earth , shal give us our portion in the lake that burnes . i answer . let all the world here take notice of thy confusion and ignorance which utters forth it selfe through thee ; thou before was scorning trembling , and now thou art approving of it ; and if it be they that tremble which serve the lord , here be a witnesse against thy selfe , thou serves him not , who art not yet come to tremble , but art in thy high nature above the fear of the lord ; and here againe thou art found a false accuser , for wee reject not the law of the lord , nor the word which hee hath spoken , but live in it , and rejoyces in it daily , for in it is our hearts delight ; and here againe , as thou hast measured to us , it shall be measured unto thee when the lord god arises to recompence his enemies ▪ thy portion will bee the same , as thou hast said in the lake which burnes with fire and brimstone . and now a few words in answer to that which thou calls a caution to all that are called saints in the nation , which may concerne all people . i answer . they who are saints who dwell in the light , and walkes in the light , doth discerne thee to be no saint , neither wil receive any caution from thee , but will testifie against thee , for thy lies and slanders and false accusations which thy booke is filled withall , and herein it may concerne all people that thy lies and slanders be reproved and laid open , lest they receive lies for thy truth , and be deceived by thy subtil speeches , who brings the prophets words , and the apostles words , wresting them and f●lsely applying them , to make thy lies to be received ; but all people who love the light wherewith christ hath enlightened them , will see thee and deny thee , and turne away from thee , as having the forme of godlinesse without the power . and whereas thou saiest ye may rejoyce that you live to see not only the mystery of godlynesse , but also the working of the mystery of iniquity in the fleshly corrupt and sensual minded men , called quakers . i answer . that name quakers was cast upon us by the heathen , through their scorne and derision , as the name christians was upon the disciples , though quaking wee own , for all the holy men of god witnessed it , and the holy scriptures declares of it ; and here againe thou enviously and maliciously hast cast a slander upon us , fleshly , corrupt ▪ and sensual mindednesse , and the working of the mystery of iniquity is destroyed in us by the mighty power of god made manifest in jesus christ , which takes away sin ; to the praise of the living god i speak , in clearing the innocent from thy false slanders , and it shall stand for thy owne condition , fleshly corrupt and sensuall minded , and the working of the mysterie of iniquity . and herein i prove thee to be so by thy fruits , thy lies , and false reproaches , and envious false acusation which is the fruites of the flesh and of corrupt sensuall mindednesse , which fruits doth appeare in this thy writing , and as for the mysterie of godlinesse , it is hidden from thee , and in that mind and nature you shall never know it , for thou lives in the sight of thy owne pollutions , and of thy carnal ordinances , and not in the injoyment of the mysterie of christ , which is godlinesse ; and whereas thou saiest , yee may rejoyce , and in nothing be terrified , because the scriptures did foretel of such , and is fulfilled in these men , and thou brings many scriptures where christ and the apostles prophesied of the coming in of false prophets and teachers : i answer , though yee do now rejoyce , yet your joy shall be turned into howling and sorrow , and the lord hath said it , and the day of terrour will overtake you , wherein your hearts shal faile you for feare , and your foundation shall be removed ; and it is true , that the scripture doth foretell of us , and is witnessed in us , that all the lords children should be taught of the lord , and that the lord would gather his flock out of the mouths of all dum be shepherds ▪ &c. and according to our growth up in the life of the scriptures , they are fulfilled in us ; but false prophets wee do deny , though all those scriptures which thou hast set downe we owne to be prophesies of false prophets , those false prophets which christ prophesied of , came in the apostles dayes , they saw them coming in then , . joh. . . and as all these scriptures testifies which thou hast cited ; and since the apostles daies , hath beene a great apostacie and not a true church of christ could be found , and ever since hath the same generation of false prophets stood under several forms and appearances , deceiving the nations : but now the pure light of christ shines , discovering to them who walke in the light who they are ; and daily more and more clearly shall they be seene , and thou wilt be found in their number , who art a cursed child , in whom the son of perdition is exalted , which utters forth thy lies and slanders sensually , and make it manifest to all , that thou hast not the spirit of god , but art separated from it , in self separation which is abomination unto god , and must be scattered by him : and whereas thou saiest , seeing it is so , let you be filled with boldnesse , and let you contend against those ungodly ones which are now risen ; i answer , ungodlinesse wee deny , and your boldnesse shall the lord turne in weaknesse , and faintnesse , and your contendings against us shall not prosper , for this is our heritage ; every tongue that riseth up in judgement shal be condemned ; you shall all be scattered and driven away as chaffe before the wind , who sets your selves to contend against the truth , for that which is now risen shall confound you all . and whereas thou brings many scriptures , which were exhortations of the apostle to the saints , with exhorting thy brethren . i answer . the scriptures i do owne , and that spirit which spake them forth i witnesse , but thou art an enemie to the power of them , though thou have the forme of truth ; thy lying and false accusing hath made thee appear to be an enemie to the life which the holy men of god lived in , and so hath cleared thy selfe from those scriptures which were written to the saints , and must owne those which was written to the world , the lier must be cast into the lake , the wicked must bee turned in hell , and such as these must thou owne to belong unto thee , and these are thy scriptures which thou hast right unto . and whereas thou saiest , wee talke of high enjoyments , and great revelations without , above , and beyond the scripture , and that wee talke of a light which is besides the scripture , but it is deepe , and thick darknesse ; and what hath such lights led men unto ? even contempt of god and of all righteousnesse . i answer . here again thou art found a lier , and an accuser of the brethren , for what wee do declare , the scripture witnesses to the same , and wee speake of nothing but what is declared of in the scripture by the holy men of god , and neither without it , nor above or beyond it do wee speake . i challenge thee to prove what thou hast asserted , and all the city of london ; that we speak or declares any thing but what the scriptures bears witnesse to the same , and the light which wee declare of , is the light of christ , which the scripture saith lightneth every one that comes into the world ; and it is not besides the scripture , so as contrary to it , but the scripture bears witnesse of the light ; and ●ere i charge thee with blasphemie , who calles the pure light of christ thick darknesse , and that the light of christ ( which is the light which wee declare of ) hath led men , or leads any to contemne god , or his ordinances , or righteousnesse , let shame strike thee in the face thou impudent one , who blasphemously say , that the light of christ is thick darkness , and leads into contempt of god ; let the light in thy owne conscience condemne thee , thou enemie of god ; for thy lies and slanders , and blasphemie which in this thy booke thou hast uttered : and wheras thou exhortest to labour to see an excellency in christ , in the word of christ , and in the church and ordinances of christ . i answer . for the simple ones sake , that they may not be deceived , none ever shall see any excellencie in those things , but who ownes and walkes in the light of christ , which lets every one see themselves first ; and your talking of the same , and report of christ , and of his word and ordinances , is not to know the excellencie of those things , for death in you talkes of the same , but the thing in subst●nce you are ignorant of ; and you who stumbles at the light wherewith christ lightneth every one , are above the doore which is the entrance unto the life of these things ; and so i exhort all to mind the light of christ , and to walk in it , and it will lead unto christ from whence the light comes , and it wil lead to the fulfilling of christs words and to the one bread ▪ and to the one baptisme , and the light is the door and entrance unto the life of those things : but you who hate the light and denies it to be in every one , hath but the huske and outward declaration of those things , and are without the life ▪ and wheras thou saist , they that are of god wil hear john , peter , and paul , and the rest that were the servants of christ , not the fleshly conceits of those or any other men & christs sheep hear his voice , and a strangerthey will not hear . i answer . they that are of god , do owne the writings of all the servants of christ ; but many may professe their words , as the pharisees did the prophets words , and as thou dost ▪ now , and yet not bee of god , but children to the divel ▪ but that our conceits are fleshly , i do deny thee , for all conceits of the flesh wee deny , and beares witnesse against , and it shall stand for thy owne condition , and thy voice is the voice of a stranger , and they that are of god will not follow it : though thou bring the saints words in thy mouth , as the divel did unto christ ; yet in the light of christ thou art seene ▪ and comprehended , and from the light of christ answered , and by it judged to be without the life of those scriptures which thou speaks of , and they are from thee but as an empty sound . and whereas thou cites many more scriptures , which are exhortations of the apostles to the church , and exhorts thy bretheren with them , to vvhich i ansvver as before . the scriptures i doe ovvne , but to thee thou envious man , they doe not belong , for as in this thy vvriting thou art proved a lier , and a scorner , and a slanderer , and a false accuser , and a blasphemer ; out of thy ovvne mouth , be a vvitnesse against thy selfe , and let all thy vvhole assembly beare vvitnesse against thee , that the scriptures vvhich vvere spoken to the saints vvho vvalked in the light and had denyed ungodliness , doth not belong unto thee vvho art an hater of the light and lives in the pollutions of the vvorld ; but the scriptures vvhich vvill surely be fulfilled upon thee , the wicked shal be turned into hel , and the lier shal have his portion in the lake , and he that works abomination is to be troden in the winepresse of the wrath of god without the city , and such like . and now somthing in answer to something in the epistle to the reader ; whereas thou and the rest of you there say , although the light hath appeared , yet there is a generation of men in the world , that doe hate the light , and endeavour to put it out , crying against the scriptures of truth ; it s a dead letter , and against the forme of doctrine therein contained ▪ to which i answer . it is true , the light hath appeared ; christ who is the light , lightneth every one that comes into the world ; which light hath appeared in every mans conscience ; and there is a generation which hates the light , and you are of that generation which say , every man hath not the light , and calls the light of christ thick darknesse , and endeavors to put it out ; and here you have read your owne condition though you make a large profession of the scriptures ( which is not the light , but words declared from the light ) as the jewes did professe the prophets words , but persecuted christ , and spoke against him , who was the light and substance of the prophets ▪ words : and if you know any who cries against the scripture , and against the doctrine therin contained with you , we cry and declare against such , for the scripture we owne in its place to be a true declaration of god , of christ , and of the saints conditions , but they are not the light , but christ is the light , as themselves bear witness , nor are they the saints guide , but he spirit that gave them forth , as they themselves bear testimony , neither was the scriptures given forth to give your own imaginations and suppositions upon , but they themselves are doctrine , and are as they speak , he that hath the same spirit which speaks them forth , reads them and understands them , and none else ; and whereas thou saist lest that simple , plaine meaning men should be kept in babels darkness , or the enlightned fall into the errour of the wicked , for that reason your book came to publick view ; i answer . truly you are deceived , who think to gaine into your form , the simple , plain meaning men by lies , and false slanders and false accusation ; who are simple and plain unto god , wil discern your deceits , and how falsly you have accused the innocent , and wil see you your selves to be in babels darkness , and who walks in the light wherwith they are lightned wil see you to be in the errour of the wicked and out of the truth ; and it is well for the truths sake , that your book came forth , that thereby your filthiness and deceitfulness , and enviousness might be laid open to the simple . and truly i say unto you , you have , and wil miss of your end in putting forth this book of yours ; and whereas you say you shall be willing at any time to vindicate every conclusion therein contained against any that shall oppose . i answer , i challenge you all in this particular to prove those accusations which you have laid to our charge whom you call quakers , in many particulars which before i have demanded ; what they are is before spoken of ; and whereas you say , you account that light within ( not witnessed by the scripture without ) which some so much talke of , to be deep darkness . i answer , if you know any who speake of any light which the scripture doth not witnesse of , we with you freely declares against such , and such a light is darkness , but the light of christ which we speak of , which hath lightned every one that cometh into the world , i hope you are not so impudent , but you wil acknowledge that the scriptures speaks of this light ; and dare not deny , but that the scripture witnesses that christ is the light of the world ; for as i said , we freely give way , and desires that all might search the scripture , whether these things be not so as we declare . and whereas you say , and exhort to let the scripture be the rule of faith and practice . i answ . here you would alwaies keep people in darkeness , under your teaching , and would make void the new covenant which is the law written in the heart , and the spirit of the lord put in the inward parts , to be the rule and guide of the saints , for who walkes by the rule without them , and teaches men so to do , would make void the covenant of life and peace , where the teacher is not removed into a corner , which teacher all that have faith and an holy conversation do witnesse , which teaches not contrary to what the scripture speaks , but is a teaching fulfilling of the scripture , and an establishing of it , though thou and many may professe the teaching of the scripture and may in your own wills , conform unto it in the outward appearance , as the pharisees did , and yet be but hypocrites and deceived as they were ; and i say againe , that faith was before the scripture was written , which faith is declared of in the scripture , which faith comes as is manifested by hearing of the word preached , which word is even in the mouth and in the heart ; if you have an ear you may hear ; & now i advise you all in the name of the lord to cease striving and contending against the truth , for verily the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands , will dash your image of many mixtures to peices , and it falling upon you , wil grinde you to powder , and your conforming the outward man , to an outward thing and teaching men so to doe , and limiting and tying the holy one to a visible thing , wil not cover you in the day of the lord : nay verily , though concerning the scripture without , you may walk blamelesse , yet one thing will be found lacking even the crosse of jesus christ , by which all sin is crucified in them who walks in it ; and i say unto you , that your covering is too narrow , and it will not hide your secret parts : for in the eternall light of christ you are seen and comprehended , your beginning , your time , and your end , for though you have the scriptures , and jewish like , walkes up in the outward appearance of them , crying the ordinances and churches are ye , yet your praise is of men , and not of god , for you are enemies to the life of the scriptures as is made appear by your many lies and slanders against us , which you have uttered ; and i say returen your minds every one within to that in your own consciences which reproves you in secret for your secret iniquities , it wil let you see where your hearts are , and how far they are mortified to the world , and the love of it , and this light wherewith every one of you is lightned is the light of christ , and it is the lords true witnesse and shall witnesse for him eternally against all whose deeds are evil , who walk in disobedience of it , and all who love it and walk in it , it leads unto christ , and into all purity and holinesse and uprightness of heart towards god and man ; and this light leads unto justification , all them who are taught by it ; and here is your teacher , loving it ; and your condemnation eternally , continuing to hate it . and thus i have answered your booke , and the truth is witnessed , and many false lies and false accusations denied and testified against , and thus i rest , waiting for an answer to clear your self ( if you be able ) of those things which i have denied from you , which you have charged upon us , for god is my witnesse , this i do desire , that truth may be made manifest and imbraced , and deceit and errour discovered and denied . george keith's complaint against the quakers: or, an answer to the quakers complaint against george keith humbly presented to the clergy of the church of england. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) george keith's complaint against the quakers: or, an answer to the quakers complaint against george keith humbly presented to the clergy of the church of england. keith, george, ?- . p. printed and sold by the booksellers of london and westminster, london : . reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion george keith 's complaint against the qvakers : or , an answer to the quakers complaint against george keith , humbly presented to the clergy of the church of england . london printed , and sold by the booksellers of london and westminster , , . george keith 's complaint against the qvakers , &c. learned sirs , it 's unto you , into whose orders i am now admitted , and by whom i am owned , since the quakers have denied me , that i make my complaint of the quakers ; that cast on me such aspersions , that its evident and demonstrable out of my books , what i have said of you , as these following evince , viz. that you ran , and the lord never sent you ; and that you were covetous and ambitious , seeking how to please men , for your own ends ; and it 's true , that i cried against your philosophy , and your universities , saying , they are the stews of antichrist , out of which comes your ignorant , profane , scandalous ministry ; and that the generality of you have not the true faith ; and that in process of time , your whole ministry will consist of ungodly men ; the wicked being still preferr'd by the wicked : and so , they say , i am preferr'd among the rest ; and by contrivance and design , now i am so old , as to have so much natural wit , as to see i must make some shift how to live ; having cast my self out from among the quakers , and seeing it is the far easiest of many or most trades , to be a preacher , to get money , and become one of the man-made ministry , where all is done for money : therefore , learned brethren , i come among you ; for you know , no money , no preaching ; as the old proverb is , no penny , no pater noster . and the vile quakers slander me in these , and other matters of truth , by saying , you ( and i may now say , we , brethren ) preach not christ ; but say contrary , that is not christ which convinceth every man of his sins , and tells him all that ever he did ; it is but a humane principle , and not divine : and to read set-forms of prayers out of a book , which to read , whether in private or publick , and call that reading prayer , is not ( i affirm ) any part of gospel-worship ; neither was it known in the church , either in justin martyr , or tertullian's time , who lived above years after christ . and , learned brethren , these heathens , as i call the quakers , in my late sheet , reproach me with another thing that i said of them , whilst i was one of them , concerning such as you ( and i ) that now oppugn the quakers with gross and horrid lyes , and false calumnies , and meer abuses , like unto the ways that ever the worst of the adversaries of truth have used against the true witnesses of it ; and yet said i , it never yet hath been proved , nor never will , that the religion professed by the sincere and faithful people , called in scorn quakers , is either paganism , or any other thing than real christianity ; and notwithstanding i have so said , i do retract , disown , and deny whatsoever is to be found in any of my books , contrary to the holy scriptures . yet these heathens , learned brethren , do not forbear to reproach me with what i have truly said , concerning the sacraments christ hath ordained in his church , viz. two only , as generally necessary to salvation , as we profess ; that is to say , baptism , and the supper of the lord. viz. as for infants baptism , and sprinkling a child of eight days old more or less , on the forehead , and call it baptism , i said hath no footing in all the scripture , neither of precept nor practice ; neither was it in use for an hundred years and more after the apostles days , among professors of christianity ; and that we cannot prove it , altho' we practice it , and get money by it , but do it by a bare imitation , and a meer pretended call , which is great presumption , yea , superstition ; altho' we call it christ's ordinance , and say , it 's commanded by christ ; yet he hath given us no command ; but we set up the commandments of men in the room of god's commands , like the pharisees , as they shew in their late sheet , entituled , the christianity of the people called quakers asserted by ( me ) george keith ; and in their book , called the creed-forgers detected , they shew , that i said , tertullian was against infant baptism , and that we cannot ( as true it is ) give any evidence in church-history , that christ commanded those words to be used , which we use in baptism ; and zuinglius is against us in this case ; and that cor. . , . proves no institution of the lord's supper at all ; and that we , learned brethren , own ( as you know we do ) and acknowledge , that there is no absolute necessity of using that called the supper , so as that none can be saved , but such that partake of it : and that whatever outward thing god commands , brings along with them a real advantage to men's souls ; and you know , we hold this to be an outward thing , and visible sign . and for my part , i still adhere , as i said in my retractations , to my former advice , that nothing be required by one sort ( i.e. by us , or any others ) from another , as an article of faith , or doctrine , in common to be believed , but what is expresly delivered in the scriptures , in plain express scripture-terms . and , learned brethren , you know , we hold the lord's supper as an article of faith , or doctrine , to be believed ; and yet cannot we prove it by what is expresly delivered in the scripture , in plain and express scripture-terms . what , brethren , shall i do with this gang of quakers ? altho' i charge them not either upon the generality ( pray mind that ) far less the universality of all them called quakers ; yet i must confess , i have positively said in my late sheet , that i have proved the quakers ( without exception ) heathens ; notwithstanding those that have but a little sound judgment may easily find , i do not contradict my self in any thing , nor do i continue to hold palpable contradictions ; for i have declared in print , those that continue to hold palpable contradictions , all ingenious persons will conclude great hypocrites , for none but stark mad and crazed in their understanding , will hold perfect contradictions , for what i hold is agreeable to holy scripture ; therefore these quakers that i have charged with the gangreen of their vile and gross errors and heresie , that is , a complex of the worse sort of errors and heresies , demand of me to prove by plain scripture , and in plain and express scripture terms , that the baptizing infants , and signing them with the sign of the cross , and the sacrament of the lord's supper , as used by us , and our set forms of prayer , and our taking tythes , and pleading for the divine right thereof , and our requiring they should be paid to us ( the ministers of the nation ) as ministers of christ , and that as such we should receive tythes and stipends ; to prove all this , and much more , from plain scripture , and in plain and express scripture terms , they do demand ; because i still say , i adhere to my former testimony . again , if i believe these things to be articles of faith , or christian doctrines to be believed , and many other things that we hold and practice ; these quakers would have plain scripture for all such things , and in plain and express scripture terms they would have it proved ; is not this unreasonable , brethren ? i have indeed declared , in publick print , that i have been above years among the quakers ; and since i left them , have publish'd to the world , that i reverence divine providence that i became a quaker : and have affirmed , that they held the fundamentals of christian doctrines , and that i knew the quakers and their principles , having been conversant with them in their publick meetings , as well as private discourses , with the most noted and esteemed amongst them for years ; yet have said , to excuse my self since i left them , if i had known they had such errors among them , i would as soon have put my head in the fire , as have owned them : yet in my retractations , i declare , i am of the same faith as i have been above years . thus they say , i say and unsay , and pretend ignorance when i well knew , and vindicated those doctrines stoutly , and in the name of the lord , which i now chargeas errors upon them , many of which were writ before i was a quaker ; and therefore as to my pretence , that if i had known the quakers had such errors , i would as soon have put my head in the fire , as have own'd them ; which the quakers esteem an idle story , for they will not believe i was so ignorant , as not to know them , because i vindicated them ; and besides , they account there is no need for me to put my head in the fire , because they think me too hot-headed already ; and that if what i have said be true , that i am of the same faith still , that i was when a quaker , and that i have been for above years past ; then i must be a quaker still ; and if i never was a quaker , then they pretend they do not understand what reason i had to publish to the world , that i reverence divine providence that i became a quaker ; thus they reflect upon me , and endeavour to render me in palpable contradiction , and to shew that by my own saying , i prove i am an apostate , a great hypocrite , crazed in my understanding , and stark mad : but , learned brethren , seeing i meet with these things , i make my complaint to you , to whose service , for my wages , stipend , or reward , i am now devoted . and i say , and do what i can , by calling the quakers heathens , deists ; their divinity , mad divinity ; their religion , the religion of julian the apostate ; and render them stoicks , platonists , and what not ; and assert i have proved them apostates , telling them in my late sheet , that i think not at present to take particular notice of the pamphlets which charge me with some passages in my former books , particularly the account of a national church , &c. the animadversions thereon , the portraiture of g. k. and the broad-sheet , cum multis aliis : but they still call upon me to prove that those principles which i have formerly vindicated in the name of the lord , are contrary to scripture ; and the quakers tell the world most truly , i deny and retract what 's contrary to the holy scriptures , that is to be found in any of my books ; by which they conclude that i do more retract what i have lately writ and done , than what i writ or did formerly ; because they suggest , that according to their opinion , i writ , preached and practised , more agreeable to the scripture then , than i do now ; and when i had more charity for them , i was better than now i am , and less envious , and more like a christian indeed : therefore in my late sheet i say , i do retract , disown and deny whatever is to be found in any of my books contrary to the holy scriptures , or the articles of the church of england ; which , i say , i sincerely believe are perfectly according to the doctrine of holy scriptures : and now they would have me prove that the quakers hold any fundamental doctrine that is contrary to the holy scriptures , and the articles of the church of england . and what fundamental principles or doctrines of the christian faith to be believed , they , i. e. quakers hold , that are contrary to the holy scriptures , and articles . seeing that i say , i am of the same faith , and have not changed in any fundamental principle , nor indeed in any one principle of the christian faith , nor varied therefrom to this day ; for all the while i was a quaker , i was orthodox , or sound in the christian faith , although i have , to render the quakers odious , asserted them to be erroneous . and although i now say , those texts of scripture , relating to baptism and the supper , i was mistaken in ; and when i did particularly assert , water was not meant ; and since affirmed that it is meant in mat . . yet i have not varied in any one principle of the christian faith , nor contradicted my self ; neither doth this prove , when i held otherwise than now i do , that i was not then found in the principles of christianity , or doctrines of the christian faith , or that i held any thing contrary to the articles , by no means , for then i should be an apostate , stark mad , and crazed in my understanding , ( if i contradicted my self ; ) according to my own saying , and was unsound in the principles of christianity , or doctrines of the christian faith ; or that i held any thing contrary to the articles . and , learned brethren , you are not ignorant how we have encouraged some to write against the quakers , altho' it hath cost some scores of pounds : and there hath been a complaint made , in the quakers names , against me , humbly presented to the clergy of the church of england ; therefore my letter-learned-brethren , that are as false and conceited as i am , and think you can split hairs , strain sentences , quibble about words to raise strife , use sophisms , draw wrong conclusions , make undue inferences , to wrong the living , and desame the dead , that you may render both erroneous , the living ignorant , and your selves wise and knowing , when it 's well known ( to them that are truly wise and knowing ) we are otherwise : therefore such of you that have more passion than patience , pride than humility , empty conceit than sound judgment , folly than wisdom ; that are more taken with lyes and railery , than truth and reason ; to you i do address my self , as being nearest related to me , and with whom i am in abundant more unity , than with the patient , humble , wise , judicious , and sober honest men ; for they may think , that i might better imploy my time , and my parts , and zeal , to much better purposes , in furthering the reformation of men's lives , and of the manners of the nation , than by raising or keeping up with an unchristian temper , to the manifest injury of the christian religion , which is an institution of love , dangerous or unnecessary controversies or divisions ; — all religions being , i think agreed , that bad men are a scandal to the best religion ; and that they cannot , if they continue so , be saved in any , as is said , p. . of that book , said to be published with the approbation of a considerable number of lords spiritual and temporal : this advice being contrary to my practice , i rather chuse to make my address to you ; and it 's to such that all along i intend my complaint : and this i may add . concerning ordination . indeed i am ashamed that i should derive either my own , or that any other of the protestants should derive their call or ordination through so unclean a conduit , as the great antichrist ; and through confessed synioniacks , magicians and necromancers ; yea , through papesse john , a vile harlot : sure i am , the most famous of the primitive protestants abhorred such a thing ; and if at any time any of them alledged that outward ordination , it was but an argument , ad hominem [ as we use to say ] by way of retortion , to stop the papists mouths ; otherwise acknowledging their call to be extraordinary and immediate . and because it hath been suggested , that the quakers are papists ; look in g. k.'s looking ▪ glass , p. , , , , , , i. and you may see , the papists and g. k. and his brethren , agree as to their notions and distinctions of trinity and persons , which the quakers deny ; who , though they confess father , son , and spirit , and that these three are one ( according to the scriptures ) yet deny the school-men's uncertain notions and unscriptural terms of trinity and persons . ii. they agree in affirming , that infants are really guilty of adam's sin , before they commit ▪ actually any of their own . iii. they agree , in denying there is a saving , evangelical , supernatural light in all men , by which they may be saved , without the use of other outward means , if god necessarily abstract them from them ; both affirming , that such as have not the scriptures , or some to preach to them , or baptize them , &c. must of necessity perish , unless the lord make use of some extraordinary means . iv. they agree , that humane learning , and natural parts , are more essential qualifications to ministers and preachers , than the grace of god ; and that men may be true ministers without the grace of god , but not without the other . v. they agree , in deriving the power of their ministry by an outward succession , which , together with the use of outward ordination , they judge sufficient to constitute a minister , though he want an inward call from god's spirit , reckoning people are obliged to hear him , and look upon him as a minister , because of his outward formality of ordination , without questioning his inward call ▪ vi. they agree , in affirming , that the clergy ought to be a distinct sort of persons , distinguished from the rest of the people by their black coats ▪ vii . they agree , in affirming , that preachers are not to wait , to speak as the spirit gives them utterance ; — but then ▪ when the bell ringeth , repeat over before the people , as the school-boys do their lessons . viii . they agree , that ministers ought to have a set limited hire , and ought not to supply their wants with their hands , as did the honest apostle paul ; but sit at ease , and feed of the fat. ix . they agree , in affirming , that all ministers are not alike , but that there ought to be diocesian ▪ bishops over the rest , whom men must call , my lord. x. : they agree , in affirming , that men may , yea , and ought , to pray , preach , and do all their other acts of worship when they please , whether they be moved and influenced by god's spirit , or not . xi . they agree , in affirming , that water-baptism is the baptism of christ , and a standing ordinance of the church of christ . xii . they agree , in affirming , that instant sprinkling is an ordinance of the gospel . xiii . they agree , in affirming , that partaking of the visible signs of bread and wine , is a sacrament , or standing ordinance in the church of christ . xiv . ' they agree , that it is lawful for christians to swear . xv. they agree , that it is lawful for christians to fight , and kill one another in fighting . xvi . they agree , in the bloody antichristian tenet of persecution ▪ in affirming , that the civil magistrate may lawfully kill , banish , imprison , and poyn'd men , for their opinions in matters of worship and doctrine . xvii . they agree , in affirming it lawful for men to kneel , bow , and take off their hats , one to another ; and in the use of vain titles , complements and cringings , &c. xviii . they agree , in asserting the lawfulness of gaming , sporting and playing ; and all such other things , as dancings , singings , actings of comedies , using of lace , ribbonds , plaiting the hair , and such other kind of superfluities . all which , although the papists , and g. k. and his brethren agree , the quakers deny and disown , with several other particulars , as may be seen in g. k.'s looking-glass for all those called protestants in the three nations . thus , as that called the quakers complaint against george keith , is made in the person of the quakers ; that liberty is taken to write this in g. k.'s person : and as that pamphlet ends with quotations ; so this , called , george keith's complaint against the quakers , ends with quotations . for a farther and a more particular answer to which , you are referr'd to a book lately printed , intituled , the creed-forgers detected ; sold by t. sowle , in white-hart-court in gracious-street : both which are recommended , . to g. k. and his brethren ; and , . to the serious perusal , and weighty consideration of all the impartial , to whom this shall come ; and to them it 's left . finis . to all the inhabitants of the earth this is sent as a warning from the lord, vvho hath been long grieved with a sinful and an adulterous generation; but against the fulness of transgression hath prepared vialls full of wrath to cast upon the head of wicked and ungodly men. here is also the vain traditional worship of both priest and people (in short) plainly made menifest to all those that art not willing to remain in ignorance, which for many years hath overspread the whole world; but now is the son of righteousness arising, which discovereth all deceivers and deceivableness, and causeth the lowly, meek and innocent to understand wisdom. written by a servant of the lord, who is known to you by the name of john higgins. higgins, john, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing h c). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h c estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to all the inhabitants of the earth this is sent as a warning from the lord, vvho hath been long grieved with a sinful and an adulterous generation; but against the fulness of transgression hath prepared vialls full of wrath to cast upon the head of wicked and ungodly men. here is also the vain traditional worship of both priest and people (in short) plainly made menifest to all those that art not willing to remain in ignorance, which for many years hath overspread the whole world; but now is the son of righteousness arising, which discovereth all deceivers and deceivableness, and causeth the lowly, meek and innocent to understand wisdom. written by a servant of the lord, who is known to you by the name of john higgins. higgins, john, - . p. printed for giles [c]alvert at the black-spread-eagle neer the vvest end of pauls], [london : [ ] caption title. imprint from colophon; publication date from wing. dated at end: vvritten at dover in kent, in the first month of the yeare of the worlds account, . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (wing h c). civilwar no to all the inhabitants of the earth, this is sent as a warning from the lord, vvho hath been long grieved with a sinful and an adulterous ge higgins, john b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - derek lee sampled and proofread - derek lee text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to all the inhabitants of the earth , this is sent as a warning from the lord , vvho hath been long grieved with a sinful and an adulterous generation ; but against the fulness of transgression hath prepared vialls full of wrath to cast upon the head of wicked and ungodly men . here is also the vain traditional worship of both priest and people ( in short ) plainly made manifest to all those that are not willing to remain in ignorance , which for many years hath overspread the whole world ; but now is the son of righteousness arising , which discovereth all deceivers and deceivableness , and causeth the lowly meek and innocent to understand wisdom . written by a servant of the lord , who is known to you by the name of john higgins . i whom the lord hath called out amongst you , and redeemed me from the abominations that is committed amongst you , and hath set me as a sign and a wonder , and my name is become a reproach in the mouthes of fools and children , and am looked upon as one unto whom some strange thing had happened , and am despised and rejected by those that were my companions in wickedness and mischief , in the daies wherein i walked according to the course of this world : but before the strength of sin was perfected in me , the lord in the riches of his love called me , and pluckt me as a brand out of the fire , yea the goodness of god was so , that oftentimes ( though young in yeers when i was in the wayes of sin and evil ) the witness of god in my own conscience accused , and let me see the evil of my wayes , and then my own heart condemned me in secret , which caused me many times to mourn and walk sadly in the sensible feeling of the lords just judgement in my heart and conscience against the evil of my waies , though not so wicked and common in all grosse sins as manie of my familiers were , yet was i not free from fear and torment in my own heart : and in this estate i went often to the place called the church , thinking thereby to get peace in my own heart , and by the knowledg of god i thought there to finde ; but from thence i came mourning and troubled in spirit , because in that which is called good duties i found no peace , nor satisfaction to the oppressed in me , and here i witnessed truly that sin was to me a burden ; so that manie times i went apart into the fields to pray and mourn in secret , desiring nothing more then the knowledge of the onlie true god which saves from sin , for the want of which was my sorrow : so after a time in this condition , the lord heard the true desires , and raised a swift witness in me , that the waies of man were evill continually , and that self must be denied , and a cross to it must be borne , and so the life of christ jesus was manifest unto me , which being known and received , redemption from sin and salvation from condemnation was witnessed according to the measure of faith in christ the light , by which sin is made manifest ; so the knowledge of the pure god was revealed , ( even contrary to the imaginations of man in the sensuall wisdom ) and he being known and his judgements received , the hard heart is broken and the darkness expelled , and his fear which is a shield against sin is witnessed , whereby the heart is kept pure and clean in his sight , and here to stand a witnesse for god , against all that talk of his name and fear , but know not the life and strength thereof . and now hath the lord opened my mouth , to declare in faithfullness and truth the things which i have seen , and am a witness against ; even the great abominations that is committed amongst you inhabitants of england , the sound of which rings into other countries , and your lewdness doth exceed many other places , and your sins are more in number then the sins of sodom , or many other places which the lord hath overthrown for their wickedness , because they repented not , but refused to know the lord : therefore harken and consider , for assuredly the lord hath a controversie against you , because there is no knowledge of god amongst you , but altogether walking in vanity and in uncleannesse , for your young men are wild and wanton , whose minds runs after women and strong drink , and the aged men and women are living and delighting themselves in vanity and lewdness , even the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye and the pride of life ; so that the knowledge of god is even rejected , and oppression , covetousness , and deceitfull dealing is received and exalted amongst you , and much of the creatures of the lord is destroyed amongst you , through the lust and excess , and that abominable sin of drunkenness you are highly guilty of , and lyeing , and swearing , and pride , and greivous exaction in your buying and selling is found amongst you , especially in a time of quick tradeing , and through the abundance of this unrighteous gain and ease in the flesh , you are grown gross and fat , that you are even as the beasts that is fitted for the slaughter . and this is not the number of thy transgressions , but you are set against the lord , and being heart-blind you know it not , neither desire the knowledge of his waies , but despitefully use them that are sent amongst you , for severall times hath the lord brought me amongst you to bear witness against you sin , and idolatrous worship , and once was i hailed out of your synagogue , and once beaten in your streets , and often stoned and mocked , with my friends and brethren with me ; yea all this is done , and few there be that lay it to heart ; and because judgement is not executed upon you spedilie , therefore your hearts are bent to do wickedlie , but assuredlie the day of the lord is at hand , wherein all these things will be brought to your remembrance , and your own hearts and consciences shall condemne you in that day , when he brings his judgement near unto you , for he hath long born your sinns , and given you rest and fruitfull seasons , and his goodness hath not been restrained from you , but in all this you have not known him , but his grace and mercy herein hath been turned into wantonness , and to the lust and libertie of the flesh . woe , woe , to all drunkards , for the day will come , wherein the wine and the strong drink shall be restrained , then shall they weep and houle for thirst and not be satisfied , and woe unto all you whose delight and life is in any creature , for the lord hath determined to make the earth empty and desolate , and all the glorie of man to deface ; for verilie i have heard from the lord a voice of terrible judgement , which will make all the inhabitants of the earth to fear and tremble , for the lord in his judgement will be known , because in his mercie man knows him not ; therefore repent , repent whilest his mercie is , before the day of desolation , and miserie come . then woe unto you who have been the teachers of this people , who for filthy lucre have deceived their souls , teaching for doctrine the traditions of men , daubing the people with fair words , because they put into your mouthes , but he that doth not you even prepare war against him , and peace you say to the rich , and judgement to the poor in spirit , and so the word is not divided aright , but truth is turned backward for the waies of unrighteousness , and you through your learning and arts , have been idolized manie dayes , but now your flatterie is seen , and your learning is come to naught , and your unrighteousness will be made manifest to the eyes of al people that have been deceived therevvith , and all your righteousness and unrighteousness is sin in the sight of god , and your revvard shall be accordinglie . therefore all , both priest and people , consider of your waies , and amend your lives , for verily the lord will not be mocked although for a time he may be silent , for all your assemblies and pretended worship is abominable in the sight of god , whilest you continue in the abominations of the heathen , and all your performances is but the tradition of men , perfomed in a customary way , in ignorance of the knowledge of the living god , whom you say you serve , but the wild scornfull nature knoweth not the lord of glory , and how can you serve him whom you know not , yet are you nourishing your hearts in that which the blind guides teaches you to observe , thinking thereby to find acceptance with the lord , but it is all polluted . and novv as concerning that vvhich you call the ordinances of god , and the order in your church ; novv see from vvhom you have your exampel , for it is altogether contrarie to the practise of the servants of the lord in all generations the scripture of truth bearing testimonie to vvhat i say , and thereby let your doctrines be tried : and first , vvhat command or example do you think you have for sprinkling little childern , calling that baptisme , or an entrance into the christian church &c. and if you vvould go to the vvritings of the apostles for proof for this practise , it is not there to be found , neither vvas it ever their practise , but it is that which by the pope and the popish affected priests was ordained , and by such it is upheld to this day , through the ignorance that is yet remaining in the earth ; but this is known and confessed , that water baptisme was once the administration of iohn , who bare witness to the true christ , and said , that is the true christ which enlightneth every man that cometh into the world , who by his death and resurrection put an end to all that stood in the outward covenant , he being the substance of all types and shadows , who said henceforth is the father worshiped in spirit and in truth ; but you are so far from the power and life of that administration , that you are not in the true form and manner of it , though you falsly say the scripture is your rule , and the apostles practise your example , but sprinking of children was never the practise of the apostles , but the inventions of the erronious spirit . and as concerning your practise singing in of davids psalms , prayers and prophesies in rime and meeter , saying let us sing to the praise and glory of god such a psalme , then doth all the multitude sing after the priest , when paradventure there is many drunkards , and swearers , and adulterers , and fighters , and proud persons , singing all with a voice they are not puft in mind , but as harmless as a weaned child , and such like words is uttered in the blasphemous spirit without an understanding , in the anti-christian ignorance ; so that this is abomination to the lord , and not to his praise ; but david being as a weaned child , even harmless and innocent , he could sing to the praise of the lord , with an understanding according as the spirit gave him utterance , and that is owned by the children of the lord , and approved of in the light of our lord jesus christ . and now what example is there for priests to require , or people to give them so much a yeare , even the tenth part ( or near ) of the encrease of the fields , and of the labour of themselves , and the labour of their cattel , for preaching the traditions of men , upon the first day of the week ; through which unrighteous gain , they are at ease in the lust and liberty of the flesh , being thereby mantained , with their wives and children , in all superfluity and gorgeous apparell , without labouring in the creation , bearing rule by their m●●ns , as it was in the dayes of jeremah , chap. . and the two last verses ; so that this practise is also contrary to the apostles , it being that which the prophets of the lord alwaies cryed against , as you may read isa. the . . micah . . so that for this example there is the practise of the false prophets , and not the practice of the true prophets and apostle ; but by them such was ever cryed out against· and now i exhort all in the fear of the lord god , to mind the light of christ jesus in your consciences , making manifect all unrighteousnesse , & condemning you in your own hearts for all the evil that you are exercis'd in , & turn aside from following of blind guides , even such as go in the error of balam for gifts and rewards , and in the steps of the false prophets of israel , who studyed and divined for money , seeking their gain from their quarter , &c. and although they may tel you there is salvation in christ that dyed at jerusalem , with many other fair words , spoken from an ayry spirit , but this i say that their words and your belief so long as sin regius , will be little worth in the day of judgement , for he that is not led by the same spirit as he was , is none of his , and all drunkards and swearers , and proud and lustful ones are excluded , and for ever condemned by him , and the manifestation of his spirit in the heart and conscience will accuse eternally ; therefore silence all vain talkers , and hirelings , and deceivers , who feed your selves and not the flock , against whom the lord hath a great controversie , and he will plead with you in judgement . then shall all the earth know that the lord sends not his message by the learned , wise and prudent men of this generation , who would ●●clude all others from the ministery ; and these be they that follow the error of balaam , who erred in going after gifts and rewards ; and this is the error of the priests and false prophets in these dayes , who for love of the reward speaks peace , where the judgement of the lord is to rest ; so that this is not the gospel of christ which they declare , for that is the same now as ever it was , not of man , nor by the will of man , but by the will of god ; even so are the ministers thereof called and chosen according to his will , and not the will of man , and we do know that the lord hath chosen the weake and dispised of this world to confound the strong and mighty in their own wisdom ; and herein is the power of the lord manifested , praises be to his name for ever : and in all their learning they are corrupted , and the knowledge of the languages , of hebrevv gerek and latine , ( which they call the originall ) is nothing worth as par●●●ing to the knowledge of god ; but the spirit of the lord jesus christ is now made manifest , which is the originall of all truth and righteousnesse , and by it the misteries of the kingdome of heaven is revealed , and all unrighteous prctises of men are by it discovered , and it searcheth and knoweth all things , and without it none knowes the lord as he is . therefore all people come down to the manifestation of that spirit in your own hearts and consciences , which will give you the knowledge of sin , and every evil way , and it will discover the very thoughts and intents of the heart , yea all the evil lustful desires in the heart of man , are by it made manifest and condemned ; and as faithful obedience unto it is yeilded , and that denyed which by it is manifest to be evil , sin comes to be destroyed , and the knowledge of god comes to be revealed in and by christ jesus , who hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , giving unto all men a manifestation of his spirit , that in the day of judgement all might be left without excuse ; so that all they that believe in the light and follow it , shall not abide in darkness nor come under condemnation , but all that turn from that light of christ in the conscience abides in darknesse , and in sin , and under condemnation , whatever their profession is , and none shall ever be justified before god , who are condemned in their own hearts and consciences by the light of christ jesus ; who is one with the father , and answers to him in judgement , and in mercy as he is followed ; and whosoever will fellow the light of christ in the conscience , must deny themselves , and bear a cross to their own wills , and all mens will in whatsoever is thereby made manifest to be contrary to god ; for man being in the transgression , this hath the lord appointed and ordained to guide and direct man out of sin and transgression , if ever he be restored into the image of god again ; so that man in denying the light of christ , remains in sin , and by the light is eternally condemned in sin , being under the chaine of darknesse , with the damned spirits that rules the children of disobedience ; he that reads let him understand . now in the fear of the lord , i warn you all that keep beer , or ale , or vvine to , sell that you let no man have drink till he be drunk ( as hitherto you have done ) for in so doing the lord will not hold you guiltlesse , and all your gain and profit thereby is even curst of the lord ; and beside this i know , and you are also sensible of it , that when the creature is overcome with drink , then he is fit and ready with a little temptation to act uncleannesse with women , and to sweare and lye , and quarrel , and fight to the abuse of himselfe , and the bodies of others , and more such like evil practises is thereby committed amongst you ; therefore fear , fear the dreadful god , who takes an accont of all these abominations . and all you that are called ranters , assuredly the lord will enter into judgement with you , for all your whoredom , pride , and drunkennesse , and all uncleannesse , though in the presumption of your spirits , you say you know no evil that you do in these or the like practises , yet the living god will make you know by his judgements that you are the most filthyest that lives amongst men , and the manifestation of gods spirit in your own consciences will for ever condemn you , and will be unto you as an everlasting burning , except you repent . and all you young men , amonst whom i had my conversation in the dayes past , consider for what end the lord created you , and how you live in wantonnesse , and in pleasure , and lust , and drunkennesse , and all the fruits of the flesh , for which you were not created , but he that created you and gave you life , it was to serve him , the lord of glory , and not your own lusts and pleasures ; and all know assuredly that you are under the power of the lord , who will cast forth his fury as a flood , which will make all ungodly ones to languish and be afraid , when he thunders forth his judgements upon all the world of ungodly . and herein have i cleared my conscience toward you in plainness & truth , makeing known unto you , that which the lord by his spirit hath made known unto me concerning you . vvritten at dover in kent , in the first month of the yeare of the worlds account , . i. h. the end . london , printed for giles alvert at the black-spread-eagle neer the vvest end of pauls . an account of the travels, sufferings and persecutions of barbara blaugdone given forth as a testimony to the lord's power, and for the encouragement of friends. blaugdone, barbara, or - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an account of the travels, sufferings and persecutions of barbara blaugdone given forth as a testimony to the lord's power, and for the encouragement of friends. blaugdone, barbara, or - . [ ], - p. printed, and sold by t.s. at the crooked-billet in holywell-lane, shoreditch, [london] : . signed at end: barbara blaugdone. reproduction of the original in the friends historical society library, swarthmore college. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng blaugdone, barbara, or - -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an account of the travels sufferings & persecutions of barbara blaugdone . given forth as a testimony to the lord's power , and for the encouragement of friends . printed , and sold by t. s. at the crooked-billet in holywell-lane , shoreditch , . an account of the travels , sufferings and persecutions of b. b. &c. in my youth and tender years , i feared the lord , and was afraid to offend him ; and was zealous and diligent in the profession i was in , and sought the lord earnestly , although i knew not where to find him , until i was directed by friends that came from the north , john audland and john camm by name , whose behaviour and deportments were such , that it preached before ever they opened their mouths ; and it was then revealed to me , that they had the everlasting gospel to preach in this city : and when they did open their mouths , i was made to bless god that i had lived to hear the everlasting gospel preached ; and they directed my mind unto the light of christ , therein to wait , which i was diligent to do , and found the vertue of it ; and as the evil was made manifest , i departed from it , and willingly took up the cross , and yielded obedience unto it , in plainness of speech and in my habit : & the people were so offended with it , when i went into their publick places and steeple-houses to speak , that they took away their children from me , so that i lost almost all my imployment ; and they kept me in prison a quarter of a year at a time : and great was my sufferings in that day ▪ but the lord so filled me with his power , that i was preserved through it all : and the diligent and faithful did prosper then , and so they do now . and therefore my counsel to friends , is , that they keep in god's power ; for there is no other way to be preserved , nor to receive life and salvation ; it s my testimony for god : for whosoever shuns the cross , and goes out of the power , they lose their way , and dishonour god ; but whosoever keep in the faith , and abide in the power , they are in safety : i have had living experience of it , therefore i mention it , and it has been with me a pretty while to publish it , for the benefit of those that are passing through , and are yet to pass through the sufferings , and therefore do i declare my experience . and so , dear friends , the cross is the way to the crown of life , and to the crown of glory ; and they that continue faithful and obedient , they obtain the eternal crown , which they that are disobedient , lose . i speak my experience of the dealings of the lord with me , in my travels and passings through my spiritual journey , for the benefit of those that travel rightly after . and i can speak it to the glory of god , he never moved me to any thing , but that he gave me power to perform it , and made it effectual , although i past through much exercise in the performance of it . and the power of god wrought in me long before i knew what it was ; and when friends came , that my understanding was opened , i soon took up the cross and came into the obedience , and the lord cleansed me by his power , and made me a fit vessel for his use . and when i had laboured pretty much at home , he called me forth to labour abroad , and i stood so in the dread , awe and fear of the lord , that his spirit strove much with me , before i could open my mouth ; and the word of the lord came unto me in a meeting , that the lord would have war with amalek from generation to generation : and the power and spirit of the lord was so strong in me , that it set me upon my feet , and constrained me to speak the words ; for i was never hasty nor forward . and then the lord caused me to abstain from all flesh , wine and beer whatsoever , and i drank only water for the space of a whole year ; and in that time the lord caused me to grow and to prosper in the truth : and then i was made to go and to call the people forth from among the dumb idols , and suffered much imprisonment for it ; but yet i was made to go till the lord gave me dominion , so that i could go into their places , and say what i had to say , and come forth again quietly . and as mary prince and i was coming arm in arm from a meeting , that was at george bishop's house , there was a rude man came and abused us , and struck off mary prince her hat , and run some sharp knife or instrument through all my clothes , into the side of my belly , which if it had gone but a little farther , it might have killed me ; but my soul was so in love with the truth , that i could have given up my life for it at that day . and then i was moved to go to marlborough , to the market-place and steeple-house , where i had pretty much service , where they put me in prison for six weeks , where i fasted six days and six nights , and neither eat bread nor drank water , nor no earthly thing ; then i came to a feeding upon the word , and had experience that man doth not live by bread alone , but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the lord. and when i was released , i went to isaac burges , the man that committed me , and discoursed with him ; and he was really convinced of the truth , but could not take up the cross ; but was afterwards very loving to friends , and stood by them upon all occasions , and never persecuted a friend any more : and when he came unto this city , he came unto my house to see me , and confest , that he could not take up the cross , although he knew it was the truth . and a while after i was made to go into devonshire , to molton , and bastable , and bediford , where i had a prison in all those places : and i went to the earl of bathes , where i had formerly spent much time in vanity , to call unto them to come out of their vanity ; and i asked to speak with the countess , and they refused to let me in , but one of the servants that knew me , bid me go to the back-door , and their lady would come forth that way to go into the garden ; and they sent forth a great wolf-dog upon me , which came fiercely at me to devour me , and just as he came unto me , the power of the lord smote the dog , so that he whined , and ran in crying , and very lame ; so that i saw clearly the hand of the lord in it for my preservation , blessed be his name : and then the lady came forth , and stood still and heard me all that i had to say unto her ; and when i had done she gave me thanks , but never asked me to go into her house , although i had eat and drank at her table and lodged there many a time . and then i was moved to go to great-torrington in devonshire , unto the steeple-house there , where was a very bad priest indeed , though i had little to him , but to the people ; and when i had spoken in the morning , i went to my lodging , and what i had not room to clear my self of , i went to writing , and the constables came and took away my writing , and commanded me to go along with them to their worship ; and i answered them , that they would not suffer me to speak there , and that i knew no law would compel me to go twice in a day , and they all knew that i was there in the morning ; and so i would not go . so the next day the mayor sent for me , and when i came the priest was there , and the mayor was moderate , and loath to send me to prison , but the priest . was very eager , and said , i ought to be whipt for a vagabond . and i bid him prove where ever i askt any one for a bit of bread ; but he said , i had broken the law by speaking in their church . so he was so eager with the mayor , that he made him make a mittimus , and send me to exeter-prison , which was twenty miles distant , where i remained for some time , and was commanded of the lord to fast fourteen days and fourteen nights , without tasting bread or water , or any earthly thing , which i performed for a witness against that dark professing people ; and there i was until the assizes , and was not called forth to a tryal : but after the assizes was over , a petty fellow sent for me forth , and read a law , which was quite wrong , and did not belong to me at all , and put me to lodge one night among a great company of gypsies that were then in the prison ; and the next day the sheriff came with a beadle , and had me into a room , and whipt me till the blood ran down my back , and i never startled at a blow ; but the lord made me to rejoyce , that i was counted worthy to suffer for his name 's sake , and i sung aloud ; and the beadle said , do ye sing ; i shall make ye cry by and by : and with that he laid more stripes , and laid them on very hard . i shall never forget the large experience of the love and power of god which i had in my travels , and therefore i can speak to his praise , and glorifie his name : for if he had whipt me to death in that state which then i was in , i should not have been terrified or dismayed at it ; ann speed was an eye witness of it , and she stood and lookt in at the window , and wept bitterly . and then the sheriff , when he saw that the envy of the man could not move me , he bid him forbear , for he had gone beyond his orders already . so when he had left me , ann speed came in and drest my wounds ; and the next day they turned me out with all the gypsies , and the beadle followed us two miles out of the city ; and as soon as he left us , i returned back again , and went up into the prison to see my friends that were prisoners there at the same time : so i took my leave of them , and went to topsom , where there was a fine meeting of friends , among whom i was sweetly refreshed , and staid there one night , and then i came home to bristoll ; and in my travels i went several miles upon long downs , and knew nothing of the way , but as the lord was with me , and did direct me ; and in all this i have experience of the love and power of the lord to me wards , blessed be his name for ever : i cannot forget his loving-kindness to me in my distress . and in my travels near bridgewater , i went to speak to a priest that i had formerly known , one edward piggot ; and when i came back to the inn , where i had bespoke my lodging , they would not let me come in ; so i lookt about for shelter to keep me from the fierceness of the frost , and i found the pig-stye swept very clean , and the trough turned up , and never a pig in it , and i sate me down on the trough , and that was my lodging all that night : and the next night i could get no lodging , but was fain to lodge in a barn : and in all this the lord exercised me in the patience . then i went to bediford , and there i was put into the town-hall and they searched me to see whether i had knife or scissers about me ; and the next day they brought me before the mayor for speaking in a private meeting , and he discoursed much with me , and had a sence of what i said unto him , and received it ; and at last he set open two doors , one right against the other , and said , he would give me my choice which i would go forth at ? whether i would go to prison again , or go home ? and i told him , that i should choose liberty rather than bonds : so i went homeward , and then he took his horse and came and followed me , for there was some tenderness in him ; and he would have had me rid behind him , but i found that when any body which he knew did meet us , then he would draw back and lag behind , and as soon as they were gone , he would come up to me again ; so therefore i would not ride behind him , but he rode three or four miles with me , and discoursed me all the way ; and when we parted , i was made to kneel down and pray for him , in which time he was very serious ; and afterwards he grew very solid and sober , and in a little time he dyed , but i writ to him once before he dyed , a little after i came home . and then i was moved of the lord to go to bazing-stoke , to endeavour the liberty of two friends , ( viz. ) thomas robison and ambrose riggs , which were taken up at the first meeting that friends had there ; and when i came , they would not let me come in to them ; and i having a letter from john camm unto them , put it in at a chink of the door to them ; and then i went to the mayor to desire their liberty , and he told me , that if he should see the letter which i brought them , they should have their liberty ; and i told him he should , so i went and fetcht it to him , and he read it , and could fee no hurt in it : so he told me , i should have my brethren out , but he would not let them out presently . nevertheless we had a fine meeting the next day , being first day , and coming from the meeting , i met with the priest , and told him his portion , and in a few days the friends had their liberty : and thus the lord made my journey prosperous . and then the lord moved me to go for ireland , and i went in a vessel bound for corke , and the lord so ordered it , that the ship was carried about to dublin , and we had much foul weather , so that the sea-men said , that i was the cause of it , because i was a quaker ; and they conspired to fling me over-board ; but it being made known to me , i went to the master and told him what his men had designed to do , and told him , that if he did suffer them to do it , my blood would be required at his hands . so he charged them not to meddle with me : and afterwards we were in a storm upon a first day , and i was moved to go upon deck , and speak among them , and pray for them ; and they were all made very quiet , and said , they were more beholding to me then they were to their priest , because i did pray for them , and he could not open his mouth to say any thing amongst them . we were six days and six nights at sea , and the master himself did not know where he was , nor which way he was going , until we were put into the harbour at dublin ; and although we had abundance of very stormy weather , yet we sustained no manner of loss nor dammage ; so that the master said , he could never say before that he was in so much foul weather , and received no hurt : and we were put into dublin the very same day that francis howgill and edward burrough were banisht from thence . and then i saw my service there , and was moved to go to the deputy , and when i came there , the people said , their was no speaking with him for me ; for did i not know that he had banisht two of our friends out of the nation but yesterday . but in the faith i went , and the power of the lord had great weight upon me , and i met with the secretary , and i desired him to help me to the speech of the deputy . and he answered me , that he did think he could not . and i told him , if he would be so civil , as to go up and tell the deputy , that there was a woman below that would speak with him ; and then if he refused , i was answered . so he went up , and their came a man to fetch me up into the with-drawing room ; and after i had been there a while , their came a man out of the deputy's chamber , and they all stood bare-headed before him , because they knew i never saw the deputy ; but i had a sence it was a priest ; and there was almost a whole room full of people , and they askt me , why did not i do my message to their lord. and i answered , when i do see your lord , then i shall do my message to him . so in a little while he came forth , and sate down on a couch , and i stood up and spake to him that which the lord did give me to speak , and bid him beware , that he was not found fighting against god , in opposing the truth , and persecuting the innocent , but be like wise gamaliel , to let it alone , and if it be of god , it will stand ; but if it be of man , it will fall ; and the enmity did not lie so much in himself , as he was stirred up to it by evil magistrates and bad priests ; and that god's people are as dear to him now as ever , and they that toucht them , toucht the apple of his eye . but in his name , and by his power their was much hurt done to the people of god all the nation over , and it would lie heavy upon him at the last ; and that the teachers of the people did cause them to err , and he knew the priests portion ; and when i toucht upon that , he would say , there 's for you mr harrison , to the priest that stood there . and the power and presence of the lord was so with me , that it made the man to be much concerned . and when i had done , he asked the priest , what he had to say to that which i spake : and the priest said , it was all very true and very good , and he had nothing to say against it , if we did speak as we meant . then i told the priest , that the spirit of god was true , and did speak as it meant , and meant as it spoke ; but men of corrupt minds did pervert the scriptures , by putting their own imaginations , and conceivings , and apprehensions upon it , and so did deceive the people : but holy men of god spake the scriptures , and gave them forth as they were inspired by the holy ghost , and they are of no private interpretation ; but none understood them , but those that read them by the same spirit that gave them forth . so i returned to my lodging , which was at one captain rich his house , and he came home , and said , that the deputy was so sad and melancholly , after i had beed with him , that he would not come forth to bowls nor no pastime at all . this my service for god was great , and he made it to prosper ; and then i went to corke , where my motion was at first , and great were my sufferings there , for i had a prison almost where-ever i came ; and i was made to call to my relations and acquaintance , by the word of the lord , and was made to follow them into several steeple-houses ; and great were my sufferings amongst them , but where-ever the lord opened my mouth , there were some that received me , and would plead my cause against my persecutors ; and i was in jeopardy of my life several times , but the lord prevented it . and i was made to speak in a market-place , and there was a butcher swore he would cleave my head in twain ; and had his cleaver up ready to do it , but their came a woman behind him and caught back his arms , and staid them till the souldiers came and rescued me . and those that were my former acquaintance , with whom i had formerly been very conversant , and spent much time , and lodged at their houses several times , even those now were afraid of me , and would not come near me , but the dread of god was upon me , and it made some of them to tremble ; and some said , i was a witch : and when i would go to their houses to reprove them , they were so mad that they would run away , and then their servants would come and hale me out ; and when i would go to sit down , they would drag me along upon the stones , and hale me out and shut the doors : so i came to witness that a prophet is not without honour , save in his own country . so when i found my self pretty clear there , i returned home to bristoll . and in a while after i was moved to go for ireland again , and then i was in great perils by sea , where i saw the wonders of the lord in the deep ; and there was one man friend , and one woman friend then in the ship besides me , and the ship was broken near dungarvan , and it foundred in the sea , something near the shore , and we were all like to be cast away ; and i was ordered of the lord to stay in the ship , until they were all gone out of her , and the master and the passengers got into the boat , ( all save one man and one woman , which were cast away ) and they got to shore , and stood there to see what would become of me , who was still in the cabbin , and the waves beat in upon me in abundance , almost ready to stifle me : and so when i found freedom i went and stood upon a piece of the deck that was left , and then the master of the vessel & the man friend called to me , and told me , if i would venture to leap down , they would venture to come into the water to save me : so they came into the water up so far as their necks , and i leaped down to them , and they caught hold of me , but i being intangled in the ropes in leaping down , was drawn from them again ; but as the lord ordered it , a wave came and beat the ship out , whereas if it had beat in , it would have killed us all three , but beating out , they recovered me again , and drew me to shore : so the lord's power and mercy was wonderfully shown at that time for my preservation ; i cannot but bless his name for it . so then i went to dublin , where i spake in the high-court of justice amongst the judges ; and then they put me in prison , where i lay upon straw , on the ground , and when it rained , the wet and filth of the house-of-office ran in under my back : and they arraigned me at the bar , and bid me plead guilty , or not guilty : and i answered , that there was no guilt upon any ones conscience for what they did in obedience unto the lord god : and the judge could not speak to me , but spoke to another man that stood by him , to speak to me . so i could not say as they bid me , and they returned me to prison again , where i had very hard exercise . and there was a man that could not injoy some land , except he could prove that his brother was dead ; and he brought a man into prison , that said , he would prove that he was killed at such an inn , and buried under a wall. he accused the inn-keeper and his wife , and their man , and maid , and a smith , to be guilty of this murther . so i went to him , and sate down by him , and spake a few words to him , and askt him , how he could conceal this murther so long , when he was as guilty of it as either of them , if it were true . he trembled , and shook exceedingly , and his knees smote one against another , and he confest , that he never saw the people with his eyes , nor never was at the place in his life , nor knew nothing of it , but only he was drawn in by the man that was to have the land , and was perswaded to witness it . and the prisoners heard this his confession to me ; so i sent to the deputy , to send down his priest , that he might hear his confession : so he came , and he confest the same to him as he had done to me : and the five persons which he accused was then in prison , but only the maid in the prison with me ; and the man confest the same once before the judge : but the man that brought him in , came to him every day , and filled his head with drink , and caused the goaler to lock me up , that i might not come at him : so i writ to the inn-keeper and his wife , and the coach-man ; and i writ to the judge also , and told him the day of his death did draw nigh , wherein he must give an account of his actions ; and bid him take heed how he did condemn so many innocent people , having but one witness , in whose mouth their were so many lyes found ; ( and they all said they were innocent . ) they called him judge pepes who condemned them all . then a priest came to speak with the maid that was condemned , which was with me in the prison ; but she would not see him , but said , nay , he can do me no good ; i have done with man for ever : but god , thou knowest that i am innocent of what they lay to my charge . so they were all hanged , and the man that accused them was hanged up first , for fear he should confess when he saw the rest hanged : and a heavy day it was , and i bore and suffered much that day . then there were some friends of mine , namely sr. william king , colonel fare , and the lady browne , these hearing i was in prison , came to see me , and they would needs go to this judge , to get me released ; so when they came , he told them , that he was afraid of his life . and they laughed , and told him , they had known me from a child , and there was no harm in me at all . and they were all very earnest to get my liberty , and at last they did obtain it . and then i was moved to go to the steeple-house , where this judge was , and the lord was with me , and i cleared my self of him ; and he went to bed and died that night : and one of the prisoners had writ the letter which i sent to him , and when they heard he was dead , they all said , that i was a true prophetess unto him . and thus as an instrument in the hand of the lord , to do his work , i was faithful and obedient unto his power , and he caused me to grow and prosper through my great sufferings ; blessed be his name for ever , that i had great experience of his love and power . elizabeth gardiner , and rebecca rich , and samuel clareges wife knew all this to be true . and then i went to limrick , where i had some service , and they put me in prison . so in a while i was released , and then i took shipping for england again , and then there was a great storm took us at sea , and the lord moved me to go to prayer ; and i went to prayer , and in a little time the storm ceased , and we were preserved ; and coming towards mineyard , we met a pirate , which had abundance of men on board , and i began to consider , whether there was any service for me to do among those rude people , but i found little to them : so they came on board us , and took away all that i had , and one of my coats from off my back ; but they were not suffered to do me any further harm . so they took away the master with them , until he should pay them a sum of money for the ship and goods . and so we came home to england . but in all my travels , i travelled still on my own purse , and was never chargeable to any , but paid for what i had . and much more could i declare of my sufferings which i passed through , which i forbear to mention , being not willing to be over-tedious . and i have written these things that friends may be encouraged , and go on in the faith , in the work of the lord : for many have been the tryals , tribulations and afflictions the which i have passed through , but the lord hath delivered me out of them all ; glory be given to him , and blessed be his name for ever , and evermore . barbara blaugdone . the end . we the servants and faithfull witnesses of the most high god ... howgill, francis, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) we the servants and faithfull witnesses of the most high god ... howgill, francis, - . burrough, edward, - . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [dublin : ] title begins first line of text. signed: sent forth the of the m. ... dublin ... francis howgill & edward burrough. date of publication suggested by wing. reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). eng quakers -- persecutions -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- th century. a r (wing b a). civilwar no we the servants and faithfull witnesses of the most high god, called and chosen of him, and redeemed out of nations, kindreds, tongues, and burrough, edward a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion we the servants and faithfull witnesses of the most high god , called and chosen of him , and redeemed out of nations , kindreds , tongues , and people ; who are ministers of the word of life and reconciliation ; and messengers of glad tidings , and salvation unto captive and weary soules ; ( our glorying is only in the lord , and not in our selves ) who are by the world in scorn called quakers ; who are at this present in outward bonds for the testimony of jesus christ : in dublin ; and who have been in the labour and travell of the gospell of god this six moneths and upward , in the nation of jreland according to the will of god ordained here unto ; and moved and commanded by his eternal spirit , into this his worke for the seeds sake which is not of this world , to the gathering of it into the fold of everlasting peace ; & to the clearing of the lord from the blood of his enemies , that they may be lest without excuse , by his powerfull word given unto us and uttered by us , ( and herein we are a good savour to god both in them that perish , & in them that beleeve ) and for this cause have we denied our dearest and nearest relations ; and loves not our lives unto death , that our testimony we may finish , which is committed to us of the lord , and because of this are we labourers under many burthens , & travellers in many afflictions , and sufferings , and are abundantly reproached , and our lords truth of which we bear witnes , greatly infamed by many slandering and backbiting tongues ; espetially by the thachers and professed ministers in the eares of their people and hearers ; slandering us with being jesuits , and deceivers , and seducers , and heriticks , and blasphemers , and witches and such like : and we of those false accusations being clear , and our lords truth ( the testimony which we hold ) wholy innocent ; and are wiling to be tried and proved , & made manifest to the inhabitants of this city & nation , in the sight of god ; this therefore are we moved to give forth ; & hereby in the name of our liveing eternal god ; of heaven , and earth ( whom we serve , & worship in that way which is called herisie ) doe send it abroad , as a challenge to all you teachers , and pretended ministers , of what sort & form so-ever , and to all you people whom it may really conscerne ; and especially to all you , in the city of dublin , & places else where in jreland to whom this may come . that you meet us , in the city of dublin , at some publique place at a convenient time appointed by you ; at which place & time , if the lord permit , ( by the permission of the counsel of jreland whose prisoners we are ) we shall you meet then , and there to have a faier and sober dispute , in the presence of all people , who may desire to be informed or satisfied concerning us , and you , in these things whereof you can accuse us , and also of those things , by way of sober questions , which we have to propound to you , not for any end to our selves , nor to set up a kingdome of our own , god is our witnes , but that the way of our god may be made manifest , and all deceit , and error discovered , and all people may be informed the way to salvation , and as you are true to your god and will answer for him ; and are willing to be made manifest in your way of worship , and doctrin , and ministry , you are not to neglect ; but here-in to answer our desires , and the desires of many hundreds ; that you and we may be made manifest in the sight of god , to all mens consciences , who are in truth and who are in error : that shame and condemnation may come upon the guilty , & truth may be exalted over all deceit . sent forth the of the m from the sarjent at armes his house in dublin . given under our hands who are prisoners for the testimony of jesus , whose names in the flesh are francis howgill , & edward burrough . you are desired to send your answer of these propositions to us , and if you consent to meet us , let sufficient notice be given abroad ; that the jnhabitants of the city and countrey may know five or six dayes time before . reasons why those of the people called quakers, challenged by george keith, to meet him at turner's hall the eleventh of this month called june, . refuse their appearance at his peremptory summons. story, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) reasons why those of the people called quakers, challenged by george keith, to meet him at turner's hall the eleventh of this month called june, . refuse their appearance at his peremptory summons. story, thomas, - . keith, george, ?- . bealing, benjamin, d. . sheet ([ ] p.). printed by t. sowle, in white-hart-court in grace-church-street, london, : . signed: tho. story. ben. bealing. reproduction of original in the friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng keith, george, ?- . society of friends -- apologetic works. quakers -- england. broadsides -- england -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reasons why those of the people called quakers , challenged by george keith , to meet him at turner's hall the eleventh of this month called june , . refuse their appearance at his peremptory summons . whereas g. k. hath after his wonted irregular and unruly manner , challenged divers of us to defend our selves against such charges as he has to exhibit against us at turner's hall ▪ these are to certifie all whom it may concern , that the reasons why we decline any such meeting , are as follow : . because the said g. k. has given us such frequent proofs of his very passionate and abusive behaviour , at the many more select meetings we have had with him , in all manner of sweetness , long-suffering , and patience on our side , to satisfie and preserve him from these extreams : that we cannot assure our selves now of any better entertainment , or that the meeting can have any desirable success for a through information . . we decline to meet , because it is not an agreed meeting on both sides , which it ought to have been ; and where that is not , or cannot be adjusted , the press is the next fair way and expedient , which he has begun with , and now seems to decline ; nor hath he sent us a copy of his charge or indictment against us , which also he ought to have done . . that he has two of our books which lie hard at his door , in vindication of us and our doctrines from his exceptions , and which he has not yet answered ; so that he is not upon equal terms with us ; and therefore we think his challenge , appointment and summons , unfair ; and that all that are not partial will be of the same mind with us . . such publick and vnlimited meetings are too often attended with heats , levity , and confusion , and answer not the end desired by sober and enquiring men. besides , that it lets up a practice that authority may judge to be an abuse to our liberty , and so draw that under reflection , as no friend to the civil peace . . we know not what religion or perswasion this wavering man is of , or what church or people he adheres to , or will receive him , with his vain speculations , that have led him to desert us ; nor who are accountable to us for him and his irregularities and abuses ; the generality of such assemblies usually making ill auditors , worse judges , and no good security for our satisfaction . and we must therefore take leave to say , it seems to us an indirect way of disquieting and invading our present liberty , that so irreligious a meeting should be held , whose end is to abuse other men for their religion . if this should be imitated by all the several sorts of different perswasions in this city , what heaps and confusions must necessarily ensue ! . wherefore lastly , be it known unto all , that for the sake of religion , the liberty granted us , and the civil peace , we decline to meet him ; and not from any apprehensions we have of his abilities , or our own consciousness of error , or injustice to the said g. k , whose weak and unbridled temper we know is such , that what learning and parts he hath , have not been able to ballance and support him on less occasions so that we may say they are in ill hands ; and if he proceed as he begins , they will be employed to an ill end , which his ( poor man ! ) cannot but be , unless he change his course ; which we heartily pray for , that a place of repentance he may find ; and , through a true contrition , the remission of his great sin of envy , and evilly intreating the lords people and way , which we profess , and which he the said george keith hath long and lately both professed , and zealously vindicated , as such . london , th th month , . signed in behalf of the persons and people ( called quakers ) concerned . tho. story . ben. bealing . london , printed by t. sowle , in white-hart-court in grace-church-street , . a serious call to the quakers inviting them to return to christianity keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a serious call to the quakers inviting them to return to christianity keith, george, ?- . p. printed for w. haws, at the rose in ludgate-street, [london : ] caption title. by george keith. imprint from colophon. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a serious call to the quakers inviting them to return to christianity . this sheet of paper doth set before you some of the many vile and monstrous doctrines , principles , and uncharitable sayings of the chiefest and most noted of your teachers : faithfully collected out of their own books , the titles and pages whereof are set down in the margin , and most of them are attested by eight ministers of the church of england , of known integrity and judgment ; whose names hereafter follow . you are earnestly requested as you regard your eternal salvation , to consider them , and with prayer to almighty god to enable you by his good spirit to compare them with the holy scriptures , by which you may clearly see that your teachers have led you quite off from the principles of christianity , without the faith of which ye have no ground to expect salvation . it is hoped that if you will duly and well consider these things you will not only renounce your teachers errors , but gladly embrace the doctrine and religion of christianity , to which you are hereby sincerely exhorted . concerning their pretended infallibility and discerning of spirit and equallity with god. our giving forth papers , or printed books is from the immediate eternal spirit of god to the shewing forth the filthy practices of the worlds teachers , &c. and thou and you , all that speak and write , and not from god immediatly , and infallibly as the apostles did , and prophets , and christ , but only have gotten the words , you are all under the curse in another spirit ravened from the spirit that was in the apostles . do not you george whitehead blasphemously take to your self an attribute of god , while you pretend ordinarily to know the hearts of men. and tell mr. townsend , ( minister of norwich ) in the second page of your ishmael , that the light of god is departed from his conscience . george whitehead answers , i take no attribute of god to my self , but what god hath given me , by whose gift i witness that promise fulfilled in me ; ye shall discern between the righteous and the wicked , between him that serveth god , and him that serveth him not , mal. . . observe , this in mal. ● . . or any other place of scripture proves not , that any man shall have one of god's attributes given them to know mens hearts . the quakers can discern who are saints and who are devils , and who are apostates without speaking ever a word . they that have the spirit of god , ( which all the quakers say they have , ) are equal with god. he that is joyn'd to the lord , is one spirit ; there is unity , and the unity stands in equality it self . concerning the scriptures , george fox says , the scriptures are not infallible nor divine , but humane . no command in scripture is any farther obliging upon any man , than as he finds a conviction upon his conscience , otherwise men should be engaged without , if not against conviction , a thing unreasonable in a man. ( note , according to this , there can be no sins of ignorance . he that saith the letter is the rule and guide of the people of god is without , feeding upon the husk , and is ignorant of the true light. the question being put , whether the quakers did esteem their speaking to be of as great authority as any chapter in the bible . george whitehead answers , that which is spoken from the spirit of truth in any , is of as great authority as the scripture and chapters are , and greater . how can , or dare any say , without the highest blasphemy , that the scripture is the word of god. if ever you own the prophets , christ , or the apostles , you will own our writings , which are given fotrh by the same spirit and power . you are in the witchcraft , who observe commands from without from the letter . so dust is the serpents meat , their original is but dust , which is but the letter , which is death ; so these serpents feed upon dust , which feed upon all these carnal things , and their gospel is dust , matthew , mark , luke , and john , which is the letter : the cursed serpent is in the letter , r. huberthorn's words , truth 's defence , p. . concerning the trinity . the three persons which thou dreams of , which thou would divide out of one , like a conjurer , are all denied , and thou shut up with them in perpetual darkness for the lake and pit , for thou hast no scripture that mentions any such things . since the father is god , the son is god , and the spirit is god , ( which their opinon necessitates them to confess ) then unless the father , son , and spirit are three distinct nothings , they must be three distinct substances , and consequently , three distinct gods. that frequent , but impertinent distinction , that god is one substance , but three in persons , or subsistances . — a most absurd blasphemy . — they the trinitarians must necessarily conclude their kind of trinity a fiction . it 's requisite i should inform the reader concerning its original : thou may'st assure thy self it 's not from the scripture , nor reason , since so expresly repugnant . — it was conceived in ignorance , brought forth and maintained by cruelty . the scriptures do not tell people of a trinity , nor three persons , but the common-prayermass-book speaks of three persons , brought in by the father the pope . concerning christ and his blood , &c. that the outward person that suffered was properly the son of god , we utterly deny your imagined god beyond the stars , and your carnal christ , is utterly denied . — to say christ is god and man in one person , is a lye. the devil was in thee , thou sayest , thou art saved by christ without thee , and so hast recorded they self a reprobate . the light which every man hath that cometh into the world is sufficient to salvation , without the help of any other means or discovery . the light within ( all men ) is sufficient for salvation without any thing else . and this light in thee , wherewith thou art enlightened is the life of jesus , john . . which he hath given a ransom for man , that was not natural , as some foolishly imagine ; for if it were natural , it could not be a ransom for man out of sin. the apostle preached christ the word nigh in the heart , and in the mouth , and the ingrafted word which is able to save the soul. so he did not preach a visible christ with flesh and bones , as you do , — and paul preached god that made the world that was not far from every one of us , the invisible god ; but you preach a visible man with flesh and bones , at a great distance from all people above where the sun , moon , and stars are . g. w. says , the righteousness which god effects in us is not finite , but infinite . faith in the history of christ's outward manifestation , a deadly poison these latter ages has been infected with , to the destruction of godly living . christ's coming in the flesh was but a figure . — faith in christ without men is contrary to the apostles doctrine . this we deny , viz. justification by the righteousness which christ hath fulfilled in his own person for us ( wholly without us ) and boldly affirm in the name of the lord to be the doctrine of devils . and an arm of the sea of curruption , which dos now deluge the whole world. observ . the words ( wholly without us ) relate to the meritorious cause of men's justification before god ; for which god doth justifie them which is the righteousness of christ's person , by his most holy and perfect obedience unto death , and shedding of his most precious blood , and that was wholly without us , and that was the true state of the question betwixt w. penn and his opponent , and is here deny'd by w. penn. death came by actual sin , not imputative ; therefore justification unto life came by actual righteousness , not imputative . christ ( in us ) offereth up himself a living sacrifice to god for us , by which the wrath of god is appeased to us . vindicated by g. w. the blood of christ was no more than the blood of another saint . it is confessed that god by his own blood purchased to himself a church , acts . . now the blood of god , or that blood that relates to god , must needs be spiritual , he being a spirit , and the covenant of god , is inward and spiritual , and so is the blood of it . the suffering of the people of god ( that is quakers ) in this age , is greater suffering , and more unjust , than in the days of christ , or of the apostles , or in any time since . what was done to christ or to the apostles , was ●hiefly done by a law , and in great part by the due execution of the law , &c. concerning baptism and the supper . i affirm , by that one scripture [ heb. . . ] circumcision is as much in force , as water-baptism , and the paschal lamb , as bread and wine , they were both shadows , and both elementary and perishable . and we can testifie from the same spirit , by which paul renounced circumcision , that they are to be rejected , as not now required . to say that sprinkling infants with water is baptisme into the faith of christ , is the doctrine of devils . your baptism and sacraments as you call it , and all your ordinances , and churches , and teaching , it 's cain's sacrifice . their sacrament , as they call it , is carnal , their communion bread and wine is the table of devils , and cup of devils . the book out of which this passage is taken , is intituled , news out of the north , written from the mouth of the lord , from one who is naked , and stands naked before the lord cloathed with righteousness , whose name is not known in the world , risen up out of the north , which was prophesied of , but now is fulfilled , called , george fox . concerning the resurrection . i do utterly deny that this text , cor. . . it is sown a natural body , it 's raised a spiritual body , &c. is concerned in the resurrection of man's carnal body at all . but the two states of men under the first and second adam , men are sown into the world natural , so are they sons of the first adam : but they are raised spiritual through him who is the resurrection and the life , and so are they sons of the second adam . who came to raise up the sons of the first adam from their dead to his living ; their natural to his spiritual estate . but perhaps it will be objected that the th . verse , the first man is of the earth earthly ; and part of the th . verse , we shall all bear the image of the heavenly , seem to imploy a bodily resurrection , but let the whole verse be considered , and we shall find no such things , &c. the apostle ( cor. . . ) does not say , the natural is made a spiritual body , or the natural body and the spiritual body is one and the same body ; but he sets them in oposition , as two distinct bodies . the body that is put in the grave is a natural body ; but the body that 's raised is a spiritual body . and that none might think this spiritual body was the same , he adds , there is a natural body , and there is a spiritual body . if a thing can be the same , and notwithstanding changed , for shame let us never make so much stir against the doctrine of transubstantiation , for the absurdity of it is rather outdone than equalled by this carnal resurrection . his envy hath reached to heaven , to prove , that the saints in heaven are not perfect , but wait for the redemption of their bodies ; which now , if people mind the scripture , there is no such doctrine in it , as the saints in heaven have not receiv'd the redemption of their bodies . if the compleat happiness of the soul rest in a re-union to a carnal body , for such it is sown , then never cry out upon the turks alcoran ; for such a heaven , and the joys of it , suit admirably well with such a resurrection . concerning christ's coming to judgment . what is that glory of the father in which christ's coming is ? is it visible to the carnal eye ? and where is that coming to be ? is it now to be looked for outwardly ? we acknowledge the several coming of christ according to the scriptures , both that in the flesh and that in spirit . but three comings of christ , not only that in the flesh at jerusalem , and that in the spirit , but also another coming in the flesh yet to be expected , we do not read of . dost thou look for christ as he was the son of mary to appear outwardly , in a bodily existence , to save thee ? if thou dost , thou may'st look till thy eyes drop out , before thou wilt see such an appearance of him . and as for that , thess . . . concerning the coming of our lord from heaven which men blindly put afar off ; the saints who then were alive remained unto it . — so their conversation , was in heaven ( viz. a heaven within them ) they did not say their conversation was at a distance , above the clouds , from whence you look for a christ . concerning heaven and hell. there is none have a glory and a heaven but within them . to deny the locality of heaven and hell not very offensive , and it looks too carnal and indeed mahometan ( viz. to assert it . ) concerning doing servile work on the lord's day , and of the moral law. did that quaker sin therein or not , who lately brought on the lord's-day , an old doublet into dr. gells's church in london , and sat upon the communion table mending it while the dr. was preaching ? g. w. ans . what wilt thou still continue a papist , that thou countest it such a crime to work upon the communion table , as if it were a more holy place than another ? where dost thou read in scripture that men must do no work on the first day of the week . obs . but to save them on all sides the quakers infallible spirit can go both ways , for and against the observation of the lord's day : and both as directed by the same spirit . thus g. fox determines in an epistle to all christian magistrates and powers in christendom , p. . so all friends of the lord god that be moved to set open your shops or do any work on the first-day which the false christians call their sabbath . — do not ye judge all that do not ( open shops ) as ye do that be not moved to the service as ye are to do that day . and all that doth not do that service ( viz. open shop ) on that day as ye do as are not moved by the power of the lord god , do not judg them that doth such a service on that day . obs . here he makes them the false christians who call the first-day of the week their day of sabbath or rest . is the moral law , or ten commandments a rule to a christian's life or is it not ? g. w. ans . thou might as well ask if the moral law as thou callest it be a rule to christ ? for the christian's life and rule is christ , who is the end of the law for righteousness who came not to destroy but to fulfil it . concerning the church of england 's ministry . there is a cup prepared for you , being mixed with plagues , woes , miseries , sorrows , torments , and eternal burnings , which you shall not pass , for you are found from the lord god worthy , and a treble portion is to be given unto you . — you are , viz. antichrists , deceivers , sorcerers , and ravening wolves . — flames , flames . flames of fire , is prepared by the lord to consume you as dry stubble . in the light of the eternal god , i have beheld you , and all your actions . — if i should parallel you with salvage beasts , i could not truly do it , i think , be they never so fierce — but men of prey , such as you are , is quite out of kind , and not to be parallell'd by any thing that draweth breath . — oh! full of all subtilty , children generated of the seed of deceit , brought forth out of the womb of wickedness , and nourished up at the breasts of withchraft , and rocked in the cradle of idleness . — oh! what shall i say concerning you ? god's everlasting decree is sealed against you , burnings , burnings , burnings , with unquenchable fire , is your portion from the lord god of heaven and earth . concerning the dissenting ministry . an ill-bred pedantick crew , the bane of religion , and pest of the world , the old incendiaries to mischief , and the best to be spared of mankind : against whom the boiling vengeance of an irritated god is ready to be pour'd out . and we have nothing for them but woes and plagues , who have made drunk the nations , and laid to sleep on downy beds of soft sin-pleasing principles , while they have cut their purses , and pick'd their pockets . tophets prepared for them to act their eternal tragedy upon , whose scenes will be renewed , direful anguishing woes , of an eternal irreconcileable justice . the quakers are the only ministers of christ . g. fox . great mist . p. . the quakers are in the truth , and none but they . quakers chall . p. . now tho' g. whitehead and other of your teachers have published some late creeds seemingly orthodox and repugnant to the errors above quoted ( in divers particulars . ) yet considering what he hath said in his counterfeit convert , p. . printed . i may see cause otherwise to word the matter and yet our intention be the same , and that joseph wyeth in his primitive christianity , p. . printed . hath said in behalf of the quakers , our principles are now no other than what they were when we were first a people . it is left to your serious consideration whether the quotations here given , are consistent with those new creeds , and whether joseph wyeth's so saying , is not a full confirmation that your teachers are not in the least changed from their former vile and monstrous principles . note - as above said , most of these quotations ( none of which are retracted by the quakers ) are attested with near . more of the same nature in g. k 's third and fourth naratives . by eight ministers of the church of england , viz. dr. isham , rector of st. botolph bishops-gate . dr. wincop , rector of st. mary abb-church , dr. bedford , rector of st. george botolph-lane . mr. altham , m. a. rect. of st. andrew undershaft . mr. bradford , m. a. rector of st. mary le bow. mr. whitfield , m. a. rect. of st. martins ludgate . mr. butler , m. a. rect. of st. mary aldermanbury . mr. adams , m. a. rect. of s. alban woodstreet . note , that the quotations above given , do exactly agree with the books out of which they are taken as cited in the margin . i george keith do affirm and offer to prove before any impartial auditory to the quakers faces , if they will dare to deny them , and if they will dare to own them , i offer to prove them monstrous , heretical and antichristian , and so far as they reflect on the persons of their opposers most uncharitable . postcript . from the above-cited quotations , it is plainly evident that the quakers belief in these ten articles is as followeth . . concerning their infallibility : they affirm that they are infallible , that god hath given to them his attribute to know men's hearts , and that they are equal with god. . concerning the holy scriptures : they say that the scriptures are humane , and that no command in them is in itself obliging , that what they speak is of greater authority than the holy scriptures , that the gospels of st. matthew , mark , luke and john , are dust , and the serpent's meat , that is the devil's meat . . concerning the holy trinity : they damn the holy trinity to the pit of hell , and call it conjuration , affirming the three persons of god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost are three nothings . . concerning christ and his blood : they utterly deny that jesus christ who suffer'd under pontius pilate , was properly the son of god , or that we are to be sav'd by his merits , but affirm that the light which every man brings with him into the world , is sufficient for every man's salvation without any thing else ; and that the blood of christ is no more than the blood of any saint . . concerning baptism and the lord's supper : they affirm that baptism and the lord's supper are no more duties to christians than circumcision is , which they renounce ( as they say ) by the same spirit , by which st. paul renounced circumcision . they call infant baptism the doctrin of devils , and the lord's supper the table of devils . . concerning the resurrection : they deny the resurrection of the body after death , calling that article of our faith as absurd as the doctrin of transubstantiation is . . concerning christ's coming to judgment : they deny the article of christ's coming to judgment at the end of the world , saying , that there will be no other coming of christ , than what has been already , or that be within men. . they deny any other heaven or hell than what is within men , calling all other mahometism . . they allow doing servile work , as opening shop on the lord's day , to sell goods , and taylers to mend clothes on that day , and deny the ten commandments are a rule to christians , and especially the eighth commandment , for a quaker said he had a command immediatly from heaven to take away the priest's hour-glass , which being complain'd of , g. fox . makes this answer . great mist . p. . viz : and for any being moved of the lord , to take away your hour-glass from you , by the eternal power it is owned , note by the same pretence , they may take away the church plate , or any thing else , for as e. burrough their prophet saith , our heirship is to possess the uttermost part of the earth , in a declaration of the quakers signed by e. burrough and more , p. . which is the same principle with john of leiden , and other german enthusiasts , that all right to any worldly substance is founded on grace , and that none had a right to any thing but the saints . . for these reasons they call all ministers of jesus christ , and preachers of his gospel ( always excepting themselves ) by most unchristian and uncharitable names . the quakers are not wronged in any one citation , and it is left to the judgment of all serious christians , whether these are not the doctrines which are contain'd in them . all good christians are desired to have this sheet in their houses , and as they have opportunity to shew the poor deluded quakers their errors , which 't is hoped many of them do not know , and will reonunce assoon as they do . ☞ note reader , st . that the quakers have printed a most fallacious answer to this sheet , to which they give this title , the christianity of the people called quakers asserted , &c. containing sundry quotations out of my former books , writ by me , when i was too much leavened with the errors of quakerism , ( though i thank god i never had the worst of their errors , nor ever denied any of the fundamentals of christianity as they have done , whereof this sheet is a suffitient proof ) all which i have retracted in print several years ago . and therefore they are most unfair and unjust , either to charge me with them , or make what i then writ te be their defence . d . that they have not in all their printed sheet discovored one unfair quotation , in that called a serious call , only blamed two or three marginals wrongly paged , that are in this sheet corrected . london : printed for w. haws , at the rose in ludgate-street , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e g. fox and rich. hubberthorn , truths defence , p. . g. f. great mystery , p. . g. w. truth defend , p. . g. f. great mistery . p. . g. f. saul's errand , p. . francis howgill 's works , p. . great mist . p. . w. penn in his quak. a new nick-name for old christianity , p. . j. parnel . shield of truth , p. . g. w. and w. p. serious apology , p. . g. bishop , mene tekel , p. . g. fox answer to the westmorland petition , p. . e. b' s. works , p. . g. f. news out of the north , p. . and in several papers , given forth by the quakers , p. . and . g. whitehead , &c. in ishmael , and his mother cast out . in answer to mr. townsend , p. . w. penn his sandy foundation , p. , , and . g. f. great mist . p. . w. penn serious apol. p. . c. a. sword of the lord drawn , p. . g. f. great mist . p. . g. f. great mist . p. . g. w. antidote , p. . stephen crisp 's collection , p. . will. bayley 's works p. . voice of wisdom , p. . w. p. quak. new nick-name , p. . g. w. truth defending the quakers , p. . . w. p. serious apol. p. . w. p. id. . light and life , p. . s. eccle 's letter to r. porter . g. w ' s. light and life . p. . e. b ' s. works , p. . w. p. reason against railings , p. . . e. b ' s. works , p. . g. f ' s. news out of the north , p. . w. penn in his invalidty of j. faldo 's vindication , p. . . t. ellwood in his answer to g. k 's st . narrative , p. . w. penn 's reason against rail . p. . richard hubberthorn ' s. collection , p. . w. penn 's reasons against rail . p. . g. w. light and life , p. . id. nature of christianity . p. . id. brief discovery of the dangerous principles of j. horn , p. . g. f. great mistery , p. . w. penn rejoyn . p. . truth defending qua. p. . p. . taken out of w. mather's appendix , which he collected out of a noted quaker's book , intituled , a strict account of babylon's merchants , &c. by r. crane . printed for tho. symmonds at the bull and mouth , . w. p. quak. a new nick-name , &c. p. . w. p. serious apologue , p. . a defence of a paper, entituled, gospel-truths against the exceptions of the bishop of cork's testimony by w. penn penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a defence of a paper, entituled, gospel-truths against the exceptions of the bishop of cork's testimony by w. penn penn, william, - . penn, william, - . gospel-truths. aut wettenhall, edward, - . testimony of the bishop of cork. aut the second edition. [ ], , [ ] p. printed by tace sowle], [london : printed in the year, . includes "the testimony of the bishop of cork" with a caption title on p. ; pagination and register are continuous. place of publication and printer's name from wing. with a final leaf of advertisement. "gospel-truths held and briefly declared by the people called quakers," was originally published in . with a caption title, and signed on p. by william penn and others. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- doctrines -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of a paper , entituled , gospel-trvths against the exceptions of the bishop of cork's testimony . by w. penn. the second edition . printed in the year , . the preface . reader , it was the wise counsel of an ancient and great prelate , of the kingdom of ireland , at a late visit i made him there , to discourage controversie , and endeavour to abate strife among christians : for , said he , heaven is a quiet place ; there are no quarrels there , and religion is a holy and peaceable thing , and excites to piety and charity , and not to genealogies , strife and debates . but the bishop of cork seems to be of another mind , that could not pass by so inoffensive a paper as that stiled gospel-truths ( given him by me in a private way , at a friendly visit upon his own desire ) without his publick animadversions ; and those exprest not with so much justice and charity as might have been expected from him to his dissenting neighbours . i am , i confess , very sorry my christian visits to the bishop have met with no better returns than controversie : but because that 's his , and not my fault , it shall be my satisfaction . i did indeed , perceiving him conversant in our writings , and his character to be moderation , casually present him with one of those papers ; but as the nature of it is far from provocation , so my design in it was purely to improve his temper , and not to excite his contradiction . nor was it writ for an exact and compleat account of our belief , but occasionally , to prevent the prejudices that the attempts of a course and scurrilous pen at dublin , just before , might provoke in some against us , as to the points touched upon in the gospel-truths . and though we have been so unhappy as to be therein mistaken by the bishop , yet it 's some comfort to us that our christian declaration hath had quite another reception with the generality of those to whose hands it has come : and i heartily wish that hath not been the most prevailing motive to his undertaking . however , since he has been pleased to fault it both with shortness and error , which we thought healing , at least inoffensive , i esteem my self answerable for it , and shall , with god's assistance , defend it against the force of his exceptions , and i hope with clearness and temper : for , though i may be plain , as he may expect , i desire to be neither rude nor bitter . i ask , reader , but the common justice due to all authors , especially in controverted points of religion , to wit , attention and impartiality ; and then judge whether our pacifick paper deserved so sharp a censure , and the manner of its being given him , so publick a return : though i hope the consequence will be good. to almighty god i leave the success , and am in all christian obligation , thy assured friend , w. penn. bristol , the d of the th month , . gospel-truths held and briefly declared by the people called quakers , for satisfaction of moderate enquirers . sober reader , if thou hadst rather we should be in the right than in the wrong , and if thou thinkest it but a reasonable thing that we should be heard before we are condemned , and that our belief ought to be taken from our own mouths , and not at theirs that have prejudged our cause ; then we intreat thee to read and weigh the following brief account of those things that are chiefly received and professed among us , the people called quakers , according to the testimony of the scriptures of truth , and the illumination of the holy ghost , which are the double and agreeing record of true religion . published to inform the moderate enquirer , and reclaim the prejudic'd to a better temper , which god grant , to his glory , and their peace . i. it is our belief ; that god is , and that he is a rewarder of all them that fear him , with eternal rewards of happiness ; and that those that fear him not , shall be turned into hell. heb. . . rev. . . rom. . , , , . psal . . . ii. that there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the spirit , and these three are really one. . john . . iii. that the word was made flesh , and dwelt among men , and was and is the only begotten of the father , full of grace and truth : his beloved son in whom he is well pleased , and whom we are to hear in all things ; who tasted death for every man , and dyed for sin , that we might die to sin , and by his power and spirit be raised up to newness of life here , and to glory hereafter . john . . matth. . . heb. . . iv. that as we are only justified from the guilt of sin by christ the propitiation , and not by works of righteousness that we have done , so there is an absolute necessity that we receive and obey , to unfeigned repentance and amendment of life , the holy light and spirit of jesus christ , in order to obtain that remission and justification from sin : since no man can be justified by christ , who walks not after the spirit but after the flesh ; for whom he sanctifies , them ●e also justifies : and if we walk in the light as he is light , his precious blood ●leanseth us from all sin ; as well from the pollution as guilt of sin , rom. . . to . chap. . , , , . john . . v. that christ is die great light of the world , that lighteth every man that cometh into the world , and is full of grace and truth , and giveth to all light for light , and grace for grace ; and by his light and grace he inwardly appears to man , and teaches such as will be taught by him , that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , they should live soberly righteously , and godly , in this present world. john . . chap. . , ● . tit. . , . vi. that this principle of light and grace , which is god's gift , through christ , to man , is that which shews us our sins , reproves us for them , and would lead all all out of them that obey it , to serve god , in fear and love , all their days . and they that turn not at the reproofs thereof , and will not repent , and live , and walk according to it , shall die in their sins , and where christ is gone , they shall never come , who is undefiled , and separated from sinners . ephes . . . john . . prov. . . to . john . . vii . this is that principle by which god prepares the heart to worship him aright ; and all the duties of religion , as praying , praising and preaching , ought to be performed through the sanctifying power and assistance of it ; other worship being but formal , and will-worship , with which we cannot , in conscience , joyn , nor can we maintain or uphold it. rom. . . pet. . , . viii . worship in this gospel-day is inward and spiritual ; for god is a spirit , as christ teacheth and he will now be worshiped in spirit and truth , being most suitable to his divine nature : wherefore we wait in our assemblies to feel god's spirit to open and move upon our hearts , before we dare offer sacrifice to the lord , or preach to others the way of his kingdom , that we may preach in power as well as words , and as god promised , and christ ordained , without money , and without price . john . , . thess . . . isa . . . rev. . . matt. . . ix . this also leads us to deny all the vain customs and fashions of the world , to avoid excess in all things , that our moderation may be seen of all men , because the lord is at hand , to see and judge us , according to our deeds . tit. . . rom. . ● . philip. . . eccl. . . mat. . . rom. . . rev. . . x. we believe the necessity of the one baptism of christ , as well as of his one ●upper , which he promiseth to eat with those that open the door of their hearts to him , being the baptism and supper signified by the outward signs ; which tho' we disuse , we judge not those that conscientiously practise them . mat. . . ephes . . . . pet. . , . john . rev. . . xi . we honour government : for we believe it is an ordinance of god , and that we ought in all things to submit , by doing or suffering : but esteem it a great blessing where the administration is a terror to evil doers , and a praise to them that do well . rom. . , , , , . this hath all a long been the general stream and tendency both of our ministry and writings , as our books will make appear , notwithstanding what ill-minded and prejudic'd persons may have strained to mis-represent us and our christian profession . dublin , the th of the d month , . william penn. thomas story . anthony sharp . george rooke . the testimony of the bishop of cork as to a paper intituled , gospel●truths , held , &c. by the people called quakers : and delivered to him by an eminent member of them . friends , i am such a reader as in your paper you desire . i have read and soberly weighed the account you give of those things , which you say are chiefly received and professed amongst you . and i will exercise so much moderation and charity as to lay a great weight on that word [ chiefly ] hoping these are not the only things , or all that you believe : i should have been heartily glad to have found that you had been in the truth , as i am well assured i my self am ; but as i professed , when the paper was given me , that if i took it , you must expect i should bear my testimony touching it or against it ; so i now must tell you , i think my self bound in conscience to perform what i then professed ; and that upon more reasons than i will now trouble the world with . you must not be offended if i say , you have such a way of writing and speaking , that it is very hard in many matters of religion to know what you mean. but , as far as i understand you , i will candidly acknowledge what truths you have sufficiently or tolerably exprest ; i will shew you , with meekness , how far your faith , if this be your faith , comes short of being sufficient or christian ; and i will sincerely tell you , what i apprehend to be the cause of your delusion , and how dangerous a condition i really fear , nay believe , you to be in . and first ; the only articles , in which you have exprest a sufficient christian belief , are your iv. which is touching justification ; and your last touching government and your submission thereto . i wish you may always stick to this belief and practice : and i heartily rejoyce to find you acknowledging the necessity of christ as a propitiation , in order to remission of sins , and justifying you , as sinners , from guilt . 't is the first time i have heard of it amongst you . as to all the rest of your articles , i mean those which i understand , i must tell you , the declaration of your faith comes so short , of what is required from people to denominate them christians , that except , under each article you believe more than you have declar'd , you cannot be accounted christians . for first ; in those articles of faith , which you have thought fit to mention , you have set down only some little ends , i had almost called them snaps , of the article : and secondly ; many more whole articles , of the true christian faith , and which are of no less import , you have intirely omitted , waved or suppressed . you acknowledge in your i. article , there is a god , and you own his providence as to the other life . but that he made heaven and earth , that he is the almighty , and at present by his sovereign power , most wisely and holily , governs , orders , and sustains all ( by his mercies as well as judgments , even in this world , not ●●aving himself without witness ) you say not 〈◊〉 word . creation in the beginning and providence as to this world at present , are not here acknowledged by you. we hope you believe both . your ii. article is wholly true ; for it is express scripture , john v. . but it is onely what the apostle there had occasion to say , and what was to his purpose touching the father , son , and holy spirit ; far from being the sum of what the holy scripture , teaches of them ; and therefore i● not a sufficient confession of faith on that head . in your iii. article you acknowledge indeed the son of god to have been made flesh , but neither conceived by the holy ghost , nor born of the virgin mary : so that it does not appear , by this your confession , but that he was at first an ordinary corrupt sinful person : nay you own him not so much as jesus or the christ ; ( the great saviour , who delivereth from the wrath which is to come ; or the great prophet , priest , lord and king of his church : ) you acknowledged him indeed to have dyed for sin , but ( not to mention the articles inferible from , and relating to , the circumstances of his death ) you have not one word of his resurrection from the dead or of his ascension into heaven : which i● may be proved some of you have expresly denyed , saying , he is not ascended into heaven , he is in us . nor again , of h●… sitting now at the right hand of the majesty o● high . and so you seem not to own any thing of his mediation , intercession , or appearing now in heaven for us . nor further have you said a word of his coming again to judgment , or the end of the world. thus indeed you have here neither own'd the creation nor dissolution of the world ; so that it does not appear , by this account of your faith , whether you do not judge it eternal , and so otherwise infinite . yet again ; not a word of one church , which it may be feared you strike out of your belief , because you are resolved never more to return into the unity of the church , but to make and maintain a schism or party for ever . nor further have you a word of the resurrection of the body , which divers of you have been known to deny , and others of you only say . it may be so . and lastly , tho' you acknowledge everlasting rewards for them that fear god , yet nothing of the everlasting punishment of wicked men : you mention hell indeed ( in a very unnatural place , viz. in your first article of ●he being of god ) but whether you mean thereby the grave , as most commonly in ●cripture is meant ; or a place of temporal punishment after this life , as some have ●one ; or a state of total destruction and annihilation , as many now a days do , no one knows . upon the whole ; as to the sum of the christian faith , which you have been pleased to set down , there is not any one article of our common twelve , that you have own'd intirely ; and eight at least , if not more of them , that you have here totally suppressed or waved . and how influential to a holy life , those which you have waved are , and therefore how necessary to salvation , i must require and conjure you , on your own eternal account , to consider . i will only mind you of two passages out of the scriptures of truth : cor xv. , . if the dead rise not ( that is , if there be no resurrection of the flesh ) then is not christ raised . and if christ is not raised , your faith is vain , you are yet in your sins , hence it appears all other points of faith are in vain , if this be not true . the other is rom. x. . if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and shalt believe in thy heart that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . this article alone is of such force and influence on mens●hearts , that if believed as it should be , such belief will save men. but both christ's resurrection and our own , are by you in this paper , left out of your faith. i judge you not , but judge your selves , lest you be condemned of the lord . your v , vi , and vii . articles treat of what you call the light of christ within man : this you have never been able yet , that i could find , to make out what you mean by . for you will not allow it to be either the natural rational faculty , or common innate notions , or natural conscience , or conscience illuminated , by the preaching of the gospel and the operation of the holy ghost thereby : till you can make us understand your meaning , or indeed till you understand it your selves , ( that is , till you are less confused in this , the very fundamental principle or rule of what you profess ) you must not think of declaring ( or publishing ) an account of your faith : see you understand it first . there are some men who have a faculty to speak things seemingly profound , but in the end neither themselves nor others can make any distinct sense of what they have said . this we usually call banter ; and i must acknowledge , as far as i can see , your discourse of his light within , is perfectly such . take notice we in our preaching require people to look within , as much as you do : we strictly charge all to walk according to the convictions , and light they have received . we daily appeal unto conscience ; but then we teach , that conscience ( opened by the holy spirit , under the ministry of the word , acts xvi . . ) does and must take in its light from holy scripture . the commandment of the lord is pure inlightning the eyes , ps . xix . . [ viz. of the mind , ephes . i. . ] thy word is a lamp to my feet , and a light to my path. ps . cxix , . to the law and to the testimony ; if they [ even men in their consciences ] speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them . isai . viii . . now these things are intelligible . this rule is fixt and certain , nothing of which can be said of your light within . in your viii article you tell us , worship under the gospel is inward and spiritual . if you mean hereby , that all outward and bodily worship ought to be accompanied with an inward and spiritual worship , it is what we daily preach and practice , and even in private press . but if , as it would seem , you mean all the worship god now requires , is from the inward man , or from the spirit , this is abominably false : for our bodies are god's handy-work ▪ and christ's purchase , as well as our souls ; on which reason , god by his apostle commands , glorifie ●od in your body and in your spirit , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] which ( in the plural number that is , both which ) are god's . not to tell you , that you your selve now a days perform somewhat of bodily worship . and indeed , if there be not a worship of the body , as well as of the spirit , there can be no publick worship . this article therefore must also be mended , to make it christian . in your ix article , you tell us of you● denying all the vain customs and fashions of the world , as also excess in all things . i know no sort of christians who teach otherwise ; i wish i could say i knew none ( even of your selves ) that practice otherwise . it is one part of the catechism we teach our children , to renounce all these . but there are many innocent and laudable customs which you call vain . would it not almost make a mans stomach turn to hear one forbear , in point of conscience , ●●ying [ you ] to a single person , because it 〈◊〉 improper ; and at the same time , while ●e is speaking to his superiour , because thou doest ; sounds a little rudely , to soften the thou , and say thee doest , which is commonly your peoples practice , and much more improper . will you ever be able to prove , the primitive christians ●sed a dialect or dress different from others of their nation and qualities , and placed religion in it ? does not christ require saluting even those who salute not us ? and no doubt his , and his apostles salutations , were in the common form . in a word , there is more vanity in singularity and affectation , than in moderate following a common innocent phrase , garb , or custome . in your x article you believe ( you say ) a spiritual baptism , and a spiritual supper and communion ; but acknowledge you disuse the outwards signs , by us commonly called sacraments : now did not christ command water-baptism ? go ye and baptise all nations , matth. xxviii . , . the baptism here commanded was water-baptism : for baptising with the spirit was god's work , not the apostles ; and tho the baptism of the spirit commonly accompanied baptism with water , yet not always , as in the case of simon magus , and many others . yet , did not christ promise to be with them ( preaching to all nations and baptising ) to the end of the world further , did not the apostles in obedienc● to christs command , both constantly practice , and also require , water-baptism to all initiated christians ? can any man forbi● water , that these should not be baptised which have received the holy ghost as well as we ▪ and he [ peter ] commanded they should b● baptised : acts x. , . then as to the outward use of bread and wine for the lord's supper , can any command be more express than this do in remembrance of me ▪ four times repeated in the new ( which you call the better ) testament . to which st. paul adds , it is a shewing forth the lord● death until he come , cor. xi . . now if christ and his apostles have commanded this , who hath authorised you to disuse it ? remember what st. paul tells the corinthians , he received from the lord that which on this subject he delivered to them , cor. xi . . and 't is a severe passage in another epistle of his , gal. i. . if we , or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel unto you , than that which we have preached unto you , let him be accursed . that which lays aside so much of the old gospel , and sets up a new and variable rule o● faith , ( we know not what light within ) is another and new gospel . to draw towards a conclusion : i have written this short paper in much and true compassion to you ; it had been far easier to me to have said more , than thus to have confined my self : i look upon many of you as an harmless well-meaning people , but under strong delusions . this your deluded state proceeds from your making what you call the light within you ( which is in many cases nothing but your own presumptive perswasion or fancy ) a rule of faith and practice , co-ordinate , if not superiour and antecedent to the holy scriptures : these words in your paper [ which are the double and agreeing record of true religion ] intimate at least thus much , that you will not believe what scripture saith , except the light within you dictate the same , and so make a double record . now my friends , do not flatter your selves , god is not mocked ; you must answer at the dreadful day of judgment , amongst other points , to such as these ; and therefore examine your consciences before-hand . . is it not your main end and study , by pretended mortifications , and renouncing the world , ( while there are no sort of men ▪ alive that more eagerly pursue it , nor have more effectual , wily , and secret ways o● getting wealth than your selves ) is it no ; i say , your main aim and end to make your selves a party considerable , and such , t● which , for reasons of state , peculiar priviledges must be indulged ? . are not , to this purpose , many of your distinctive characters , such as you different garb ( for it is plain not a few o● your peoples ●loaths , as to materials , are more costly than many of ours ) your way of speaking , yea , even your looks and gestures , assumed rather to make your selves remarkable , and at first sight known from other people , than out of any perswasion , sense of duty , or conscience of obligation . . what reasonable or tolerable warrant can you plead for waving , suppressing , at least , not confessing , much the greater part of the christian faith , and rejecting all outward positive parts of worship ( especially baptism and the lords supper ) which have such plain and repeated evidences in holy scripture . your light within , ( or sense and perswasion which you say you have , and are sure is from christ ) forasmuch as , in the present cases , it dictateth against holy scripture can never be proved even to your selves , much less to others , to be from christ : but must rather in all reason , be resolved to be one of the heights or depths of satan , transforming himself into an angel of light. and for any persons to yeild to such conduct ( besides or against holy scripture ) is plainly to abandon themselves to the delusions of the devil . in a word therefore , i again require you , as you will answer all your secret arts and high pretensions at christ's tribunal , that you either embrace and profess the intire christian faith , in the points wherein i have shewn you to be defective ; and that you receive the christian seals or badges , baptism and the lord's-supper ; or else that you desist to lay claim to the name of christians . it is not for me to judge you , but again i say unto you , ( truly from god , as his minister ) judge your selves . this is the case . if men who take away even from the faith once deliver'd to the saints , at least two thirds , besides many main points of the other third ; who equal their own presumptuous conceits to the divine oracles , and revelations ; who use and disuse at pleasure , what parts of god's instituted worship they think fit , even the very badges of christianity , ( i will not here interpose your making gain your godliness ) but if the aforesaid men are in a way of perdition , what can you conclude of your selves ? in the name of god repent and return : and from my soul i pray , that god will please to give you repentance . edw. cork and ross . cork , july the d . . a defence of a paper , entituled , gospel-truths , &c. i have given the bishop's exceptions together at large , as he did our paper , and shall now consider their validity . he is pleased to say at the beginning of his first paragraph , he is such a reader as in our paper ●we desire : words that gave me great hopes , of not only fair , but friendly dealing ; and i heartily wish it had been so : but since it seems to me the reverse of his promise , he must not take it ill from me , if i stop a while , and shew him a little to himself , and how much he is mistaken in his own temper , as well as in our principles . for tho' he begins with the names of moderation , charity and meekness , that 's all : he quickly loses sight of them , and forgets them , with himself , almost all the way . and unless my taste be extreamly depraved , there is little relish of those vertues in his management , or a tolerable temper shewn towards us , respecting either our belief , or practice . we desire such a reader indeed as had rather we were in the right , than in the wrong ; one that did not prejudge our case , and would give us ( and not our enemies ) the wording of our own belief ; while the bishop but too plainly shews , he would not have us in the right , even where he dares not say ( however freely he suggests it ) that we are in the wrong . which appears , first , by his unnecessary exceptions to such truths , as we have declared in our paper ( and he cannot deny ) as imperfectly exprest , because we have not said all that might be said , to branch them out , or illustrate them ; tho' enough to be understood by such as are not captious . secondly , by suppositions incongruous , and that can have no other service than to expose us , and that in a very ill manner . thirdly , by rendring us to deny , what we don't express in our paper : tho' indeed we believe it . fourthly , in not taking due notice of what is implied , as well as exprest . which had been but just . fifthly , in making the worst of what is not concurrent with his belief , and not the best where we believe the same thing . sixthly , by grosly misrendering our pretences to strict living . lastly , by condemning us upon rumour . all which , is more than leaning to that side , that had rather we were in the wrong , than in the right ; and consequently not such a reader as we desired . that this is so , let it but be observed , how he unchristians us in his third paragraph ; tho' immediately in a contradiction , what he just before acknowledges in his second . nor will he allow us to be so much as deists in his fourth , or at most but very imperfect ones , because , we have not said all of god , that may be ascribed to him . in his sixth , he supposes us capable of believing that christ came of corrupt and sinful flesh , because we say no more in that place , of the manner of his incarnation than the evangelist doth , john . . also , that we are defective , at best , ambiguous , about eternal rewards and punishments . he makes us , in his seventh paragraph , to deny the resurrection of the dead , at large , and without distinction , tho' we there acknowledge a future state , which implies it ; and have not said one word against it ; but upon all occasions , in print , or otherwise , have exprest our belief of that branch of christian doctrine , according to scripture . in his tenth , he derides our plain ( though proper ) language , of thou to a single person , though it is what he himself gives to god in his prayers . in his fourteenth , and fifteenth , he is pleased to slight and render our stricter living , a trick to promote a party , and that our garb , looks and gestures , are more to make ourselves remarkable , than out of any perswasion of duty , or conscience : as bad a construction , as he could make . in his sixteenth , he tells us , the light within us , that we say , we have from christ , is rather one of the highths or depths of satan transformed , and that we are abandoned to his delusions . so that we and most of our principles too , are stark naught with the bishop . in his eighteenth , and last paragraph , he suggests , we take away two thirds of the christian faith , besides many points of the other third ; and equal our presumptuous conceits , to the divine oracles , and revelations , and use , and dis-use at pleasure , what part of god's instituted worship , we think fit ; even the very badges of christianity . i will not , says the bishop , interpose ( yet suggests it ) your making gain your godliness ; but if the aforesaid men , are in a way to perdition , what can you conclude of your selves ? in the name of god repent and return : thus the bishop , upon a whole people , without any other provocation , than has been exprest . i hope , after this , he will not expect , ( i am sure he ought not ) that any body should think him such a reader , as we desired for our gospel-truths , and which he promised us to be ; or that he has treated us with the moderation , charity , and meekness , he made us hope for ; since none of our adversaries have used us much worse , in so little a compass . i heartily wish him a better sight of himself , as well as of us , that he may be less mistaken in both another time ; for i have a respect for him , and desire not to be upon these terms with him , any longer , than he thinks fit to make it necessary . the rest of his first paragraph is only a strain of fair and pastoral promises , forgotten by him , and not to be remembred any more , at this time , by me ; and therefore shall proceed to his second . only observe this one thing to my reader , and the bishop too , that he is pleased to place moderation and charity to our account , because he does not take us by out wor● chiefly to mean only , or all in reference to the things , by us believed : which , unde● favour , he could not do in justice ; . an●● therefore he needs not bring us in debt●● for that , which is our due , since no bod● ever took chiefly , for only , any more tha● an eldest , for an only son , or an arch , fo● an only bishop . nor does chiefly imply al●● any more than only ; for whether it regards things humane , or divine , it imports the best part of any thing , but n●● all : the most valuable , that which deserve● and commands our regard and estee●● in the first place . and i leave it with m●● reader , whether believing in god , an●● christ , and the holy spirit ; and believing the scriptures , and the necessity of holiness , and divine worship , and finally of eternal rewards and punishments , are no●● points of faith , chiefly to be received , and professed by christians ? and if they are such , the bishop must have been , super-finely critical , upon our word chiefly , as well as that he might have been a better husband of his moderation , and charity , and have kept them for an occasion where they might have been more needed , and consequently better bestowed . his second paragraph allows us to have ●…iciently exprest our christian belief in ●…o articles , but with this censure , that 〈…〉 leven , we are only clear in these two , 〈◊〉 justification by christ , and submission to 〈◊〉 civil government , wishing we may always 〈◊〉 to this belief , and practice ; and adds , i ●●…tily rejoyce to find you acknowledge the ●●…essity of christ , as a propitiation , in order to the remission of sins , and justifying you , as sinners , from guilt . 't is the first time i have heard of it among you . if so : it is the bishops fault , and seems to me , next to impossible ; since before that paper was given him , he was pleased to acknowledge he had read several of our books ; particularly , my rise and progress of the people called quakers , taking it out of his pocket at that time ; also robert barclay's apology , which states , and vindicates our principles at large , in which the two doctrines afore-mentioned , are very clearly declared , and maintained ; notwithstanding he seems to make this look like a new discovery . but however , i am pleased , that the bishop is so , at two of the gospel-truths : i am of opinion if he had well considered the force and comprehensiveness of our belief concerning christ , that pleases him so well , he might hav● saved himself the trouble of what he h●● published to the world upon the rest 〈◊〉 them : for , whoever believes in christ , 〈◊〉 a propitiation , in order to remission of si●● and justification of sinners from the guilt 〈◊〉 sin , can hardly disbelieve any fundament●● article of the christian religion ; since , 〈◊〉 very such person , must necessarily belie●● in god , because it is with him alone m●● is to be justified . to be sure he must b●lieve in christ , for that is the very pro●●sition . he must also believe in the h●● ghost , because , he is the author , of 〈◊〉 conviction , repentance , and belief . he mu●● believe heaven , and hell , rewards , a●● punishment , and consequently the resurr●●tion of the just , and unjust : for , wh●● should he be concerned about being free●● from the guilt of his sin , if he were una●countable in another world ? so that acknowledging the necessity of christ , as propitiation , in order to the remission ( 〈◊〉 sin , comprehends the main doctrine ( 〈◊〉 christian religion ; and as so many line● drawn from the circumference to the center , they all meet and center in christ : an● indeed it is as the navel of christianity , an● characteristick of that religion . 〈◊〉 would intreat him again , to reflect well 〈◊〉 his own acknowledgment , and com●endation of our belief , concerning the end 〈◊〉 benefit of christ , to mankind ; and he 〈◊〉 not think us so deficient ; much less , un●● such strong and dangerous delusions , as he 〈◊〉 been pleased to represent us . his third paragraph will not suffer us 〈◊〉 be christians , notwithstanding what 〈◊〉 have said of our belief in christ , in our paper called gospel-truths . in one sence i shall easily agree with him , for i think nothing makes any man a true christian , but regeneration , the power of the son of god revealed in the soul , converting 〈◊〉 to god : for the devils believe , and tremble , too , and yet are devils still ; they believe what is true , but they do not truly believe in him that is true : they know and assent to the propositions of truth , or articles of faith , and knew him to be christ too , when he came of old , and called him by his name , but this did not make true christians then of them : nor yet does an assent now to all the truths of the gospel , truly qualifie men christians , unless they feel the power of them , upon their hearts . and i would have my reader reflect well upon rhis great ●nd essential truth , tho' he were as big as a bishop : for a new creature is the b●siness ; an orthodox life , the cross of chri●● which is the narrow way of self-denial 〈◊〉 i must say , that whoever declares , he believes in christ as his sacrifice and sanctif●●● which is to save both from the guilt 〈◊〉 pollution of sin , is a professor of christian●●● and may reasonably be allowed to be●● christian at large . and that what we ha●● declared , in our third , fourth , fifth , a●● sixth gospel-truth , comprehends the be●● before-mentioned , my just and sober r●●der may satisfie himself in the peru●● thereof his fourth paragraph faults our first article , as he is pleased to call it , with gre●● shortness and imperfection concerning our belief of god ; for tho' he says we own his pr●vidence as to the other life , yet we say n●thing , as to the creation of this present work ▪ and providence over it : but with the bishop leave , he that believes in god , believes 〈◊〉 all that 's necessary to the supreme being 't is what he , and all christians , take fo● granted , and allow , as often as they hea● any one say , he believes in god. for no● to believe him omnipotent , omnissie●t , and omnipresent , is not to believe him to be●● god , being inseparable from the divine● nature . i must appeal to the bishop , whe●●er a small grain of charity would not have excused us from his reflection upon this head. we have said more then moses ●●d to pharaoh : for besides that , i am , is ●o more then , he is ; we have added that he is , the rewarder of all men , according to ●heir works . we gave the text , as it is , ●nd the very text seems exprest for a decla●●tion of faith in god , viz. he , that will come to god , must believe that he is , and that he is a rewarder , of them that seek him. ●he text does not enumerate and require ●he belief of all the divine attributes , and properties that are in god , but the bare ●elief of his being , and what he is to mankind that fear him . and whatever the bishop says , this is enough for a man to come to god , tho' not enough , it seems , to come ●●o the bishop in the quality of a believer : he must help the holy ghost to speak properly , or we , that speak after him , must be deficient in our expressions , if not our belief . but when any one affirms , that man was created by god , is he short , fallacious , or equivocal because he does not say how god made man , or what he made him ? ●●is not his body , soul , and spirit , his will , understanding , memory , and affections comprized , and meant , under that word man ? besides , could the bishop think that while we owned god's greater providence , his lesser could be disbelieved by us ? he that has the alone power of rewarding men , in the other world , according to their works in this , must certainly be the sovereign of both ; and his providence , in justice , is to be so understood . and as it is most certain that we believe of god , all that the holy scriptures declare of him , and whatsoever is proper to that great and glorious being so , had we not thought it unnecessary to be more particular , from the common notion all men have of the deity , the bishop could have had no room left for the exercise of his charity . in his fifth paragraph he blames us of being defective in our confession of the holy trinity : tho' we give it in the very terms of the holy ghost , john . . if this is not a sufficient text to prove the trinity , that antiquity urges , and also modern writers of the church of england to prove it , i know not where to find one , in the scripture . it is generally believed the apostle john gave this declaration to the first christians , to prevent their being deluded by cerinthius . how come the bishop then to render it but 〈◊〉 by passage , and otherwise intended by the apostle , than for an article of faith about the trinity ? is there a plainer , or a fuller any where in the writings of the new testament ? three and yet one , is the doctrine of the trinity : and no other apostle has gone so far , or been so express : insomuch that the text has been doubted , and render'd apocryphal by such as do not believe the common doctrine of the trinity ; and foisted in to serve the turn of trinitarians : so plain it has been thought to their purpose , even by the anti-trinitarians . how then is the text defective with the bishop ? but he says the apostle writ it upon occasion : doubtless he did so . but what other occasion , i pray , than that of the holy trinity ? he adds , and it was to the apostles purpose , touching the father , son , and holy ghost : but what purpose could the apostle have , but that of declaring the trinity , and yet unity ? what other use does be make of it ? the bishop must be very hard put to it , certainly , to shift off , and lessen our confession in this point , and rather then fail , render the text it self short ; which , with submission , i think is a bold attempt in one of his station , if he believes the thirty nine articles . the next and sixth paragraph , relating to our third gospel-truth , is large , and consists of divers branches , and therefore i shall consider them distinctly and apart . in the third article , you acknowledge indeed the son of god to have been made flesh , but neither conceived by the holy ghost , nor born of the virgin mary : so that it does not appear , by this your confession , but that he was at first an● ordinary , corrupt and sinful person . i think it is hardly to be supposed that we could intend so gross a thing , or that it is inferrible from the manner of expressing of ourselves , in reference to christ's manifestation in the flesh . where enough is said , to comprehend the rest , all is meant , though all be not exprest : we call him the beloved son of god , the only begotten of the father : pray what is that short of being conceived by the holy ghost ? to be sure , it is very far from a corrupt and sinful person , a supposition as remote from what we said , as from what the bishop promised , viz. charity . he that confesses the word was made flesh , confesses him made flesh by god , and therefore made holy flesh : for god never made any corrupt or sinful flesh . if the place is read , as some do , viz. the word took flesh , the flesh must be holy , for he would not take , or dwell in sinful flesh . and had the bishop well remembred what he acknowledged , upon our believing christ to be a propitiation for sin , not many lines before , he could never have suggested so unreasonable , as well as uncharitable a conceit , since sinful flesh , or a corrupt person could never be any part of a sacrifice for sin : so that in commending that part of our belief , he has sufficiently secured us against this part of his insinuation . but the bishop proceeds to aggravate our shortness in expression to a severe imputation , viz. that we own him not so much as jesus or the christ . this must be a great oversight of the bishop , not to say worse , when the very fourth head about justification by christ , of which he declares himself so well satisfied , thrice confesses him to be christ , viz. in the first , third and fourth lines . again , we call him christ in the first line of the fifth gospel truth ; likewise in the first and fourth lines of the sixth we call him christ : we do the same in the first and fifth lines of the eighth , and in the first line of our tenth gospel-truth : how the bishop came to miss in so palpable a point of fact , in the compass of one half side of a sheet of paper , i cannot imagine , and am unwilling to censure . nor would i willingly think the bishop so trifling , as well as disingenious , as to excuse himself herein , because we do not call the word that took flesh by the name of christ in that place , since the bishop repeats it from us , out of our aforesaid fourth head , about justification by christ , where we call him by the name of christ , as may be seen in the second and foregoing paragraph of his reflexions . besides , we have not confessed his name less than nine times in that paper . but if the bishop could yet insist upon the word christ not being in our third head , i say the thing is there , though the word be not . for what is christ but the word made flesh , and who is the word made flesh but jesus christ ? again , who is the beloved son of god but christ , and who else but christ is the beloved son of god , and only begotten of the father , full of grace and full of truth : for these high and distinguishing characters are to be found in that very head of doctrine , where the bishop will not have us to acknowledge him to be christ . so that unless a corrupt and sinful person can be full of grace and truth , i wonder how the bishop came to suppose a thing in our name , so very gross . but he proceeds in the same paragraph . you acknowledge indeed he died for sin , but you have not one word of his resurrection from the dead , or of his ascention into heaven , which it may he proved some of you have expresly denied , saying , he is not ascended into heaven , he is in us : with more to this effect . i should be sorry to tax the bishop here of absurdity and uncharitableness ; but who can help it ? for if christ be not risen , he is still in his grave ; he is no more . how then do we assert him to be a propitiation , and the light and life of his people ? see gospel truth , , , and . can that which is dead sanctifie and justifie believers ? can the dead give us grace and the holy spirit ? or have we not said so of christ , that he is the giver thereof ? and if we have said so , must not the bishop be extreamly beside the business ? his uncharitabliness is as obvious , i will not say his untruth ; but i must pray him to reflect a little better upon what he has writ ; for unless he would make us to mean the grave , when we say that wicked men shall never come where christ is gone , gospel truth , he must allow that we acknowledge christ to be in heaven , and consequently ascended . what shall i say to his story of some of our friends , whom he makes to affirm that christ is not ascended into heaven , he is in us ? can it touch us , or should he have said it , and not have proved it ? is that fair and candid ? is it charitable , supposing it were true , which does not appear ? or is it just to insinuate it upon the people as dubious ? but let it be never so true , it cannot conclude the people , if not the act of the people , the church of england has doctors of very different sentements ; would the bishop think it fair the common belief of the church should thereby be concluded ? it is true , and a great and comfortable truth , that christ is in us , according to cor. . . gal. . . col. . . . but not confined to man : he is not so there , as that he is no where else , and least of all that he is not in heaven . for the apostle tells us , eph. . . that he ascended far above all heavens , that he might fill all things ; then he is in man certainly . so that our asserting that doctrine of the indwelling of christ in man , does not make void his being elsewhere because he is every where : tho' in heaven most gloriously , without doubt , being there glorified with the glory that he had with the father before ●he world began . and they that thus believe in christ cannot deny his being at god's right hand , which signifies , according to scripture , philip. , , , . the highest exaltation : nor yet to be their mediator , for that is inseparable from his being their propitiation . so that tho we did not dwell upon points , but were concise in our expressions , yet whatever is implied or is implicable from any assertion , justice , as well as charity always grants ; and so wound the bishop have done , had they been uppermost in his mind when his pen ran so fast against us . i must own it was not writ for criticks , but for such readers as the bishop says he was , or should have been , to wit , who exercise moderation , and charity ; more of which , i hope he thinks as well as i , will do him no harm . but it disturbs the bishops that we have said nothing of christ's coming to judgment , nor of the end of the world , whether it be dissolvable or eternal . for the first , it is implied in our making all men accountable to god , for their deeds done in the world. for the other , it was not under our consideration , being not objected to us . but they that say as much of christian doctrine as we have done in those eleven heads of our paper , did never yet , that i have heard , believe the eternity of this world , heb. . , , . yet again says the bishop , not a word of one church , which it may be feard you strike out of your belief , because you are resolved never more to return into the unity of the church , but to make and maintain a schism or party for ever . these are very harsh constructions , besides that they beg the question , and in my opinion would have past better from a person whose office was less concerned in charity than that of a bishop : but why , pray , must interest and obstinacy rule our dissent ? what 's to be got by it ? profit and preferment go the bishops way , i will not say he goes theirs . but why not conscience , tho' it were mistaken , since we have been all along of the loosing side ? which is not usually espoused by the men of interest ; nor are men ordinarily obstinate against their interest . let us at least be honest men and allowed to mean well though we were mistaken . but what church , of the many churches in europe is the bishops one church , to which he would have us return ? he has not told us . methinks 〈◊〉 that censures our shortness so much , ●●ould not have been deficient himself in so material a point . so that if we are out of the way , we must be so still for all the bishop ; since we are yet to seek what church ●e err from , or should repair to . but i ●ill suppose he means his own , by which he excludes the lutheran and calvinist ; the presbyterian , independant and baptist , as well as the people called quakers , from being of his one church ; to say nothing of the roman catholick or greek churches . but unle●ss the one church , as he phrases it ; by which i understand him to intend the true one , may be of two minds , it will be difficult for him to recommend his own above the rest , because that is not only broken in sentiments , but practice too , and which the bishop knows is no longer a secret. i might mention the differences warmly managed between the doctors of it , about grace and free-will ; one taking the calvinist , the other the arminian way ; as they also do about the doctrine of satisfaction and justification . likewise the late controversie between two famous men of the church , about the trinity , who are followed in their differing sentiments by great numbers of the learned of the bishops one church : and for that reason ( if no other ) i cannot be so well satisfied of his exact correspondence with all the articles of that church himself . and i hope i am not beside the business , when i say it would very well have become the bishop to have told us what it is he would have us believe , when he found so much fault with what that paper says we do believe . it would be too long , and perhaps he might think 〈◊〉 besides the business , at least the brevity th● case requires , to give him the reasons o● our separation and dissent or disagreemen● . with the church . i put these words together , because some were never members of it , and so they could not properly be said to separate from it , but true it is , we may all b● said to dissent or disagree ; and i would think the bishop should not be much to seek for the reasons of it . and yet where we are vulgarly apprehended to differ most , we dissent least , i mean in doctrine , which is the reason so many have upon occasion said , as indeed did the bishop at the visit i made him : viz. why we believe the same , 't is what we preach as well as you . for except it be the wording of some of the articles of faith in school terms , there are very few of them ●●ofest by the church of england , to which ●●e do not heartily assent . and this i have ●●prest for my self , and in behalf of my ●●iends in my key , and primitive christianity revived . but of this and the more material reasons of our distance from the ●hurch , i may have occasion to express my 〈◊〉 at the closure of this vindication . but the bishop proceeds in his sixth paragraph : nor have yon a word of the resurrection of the body , which divers of you have ●●en known to deny , and others of you only say 〈◊〉 may be so . i shall consider this immediat●ly upon the next paragraph , where he ●eats upon the same subject , and apply my 〈◊〉 to his conclusion of this : lastly , tho' 〈◊〉 acknowledge everlasting rewards for them that fear god , yet nothing of the everlasting ●unishment of wicked men. i think we do , ●nd that the bishop aggravates his disinge●uity to us upon this head : for the words of the paper are these , it is our belief that ●od is , and that he is a rewarder of all them that fear him , with eternal rewards of happiness ; and that those that fear him not , shall be turned into hell. the scriptures are , heb. ● . . rev. . . rom. . , , , . psalm ●● . . now tho' eternal is not joyned to hell , yet justice as well as candor would have understood it so , and to mean the hel● of the damned , the punishment of evil doer● after this life , according to , the ancient common belief . but the bishop that seldom fails to make the worst of every thin●… for us , thus comments upon our word● ▪ you mention hell indeed , but whether y●… mean thereby the grave , as most commonly in scripture is meant , or a place of temporal punishment after this life , as some have don● or a state of total destruction and annihilation as many now adays do , no one knows . b●●… with the bishops leave , what if we mea● none of these , may we not be in the righ● for all that ? for what if none of these an●● the ancient , common and scripture belie●… what will the bishop do then ? since on● would think that one of them is the bishop● hell , because he gives us and his reade● no more room for our meaning , or any other belief of a hell. and either one of these is an article of his belief , or else he keeps the true hell to himself , and was not so just as to include that in the question with the rest , lest he should be thereby guilty of supposing us capable of meaning the true one is our gospel-truths , viz. the worm that never dies , the fire that never goes out , where is weeping and gnashing of teeth for ever : ●●e thessalonians . . jude , . and ●hich , i think , is none of the three the bishop mentions . however , he abundantly ●●●ws his inclination to represent us rather ●●rong than right , in our belief : for if the ●●riptures by us cited are consulted , they ●ainly shew we never meant the grave , and ●●at they equally referr to the future , state 〈◊〉 the souls of men ; viz. that all shall re●●ive the recompence of their works , and the ●ewards of their deeds , according to the ●ature and quality of them . and if the re●ards of the righteous are eternal , then so ●●ust those of the wicked be , or both must 〈◊〉 temporary : for the holy ghost makes 〈◊〉 difference as to the duration of the one ●●ore than of the other . one grain of a truly christian temper , had saved the bishop , and he me , the trouble of this as ●ell as of other reflections . i am now come to his seventh paragraph , ●he first part of which is a heavy complaint of our shortness and deficiency in expressing of our belief . we , it seems , are too general in some points , and wave others ; he is pleased to say eight of twelve , but instances only in that of the resurrection ; tho' he conjures us at the same time , upon our eternal account , to consider what he say ▪ now if being general and keeping to th● terms of scripture be a fault , we are lik● to be more vile with the bishop : for thank be to god , that , only is our creed , and wi●● good reason too , since it is fit that shou●● only conclude and be the creed of christians , which the holy ghost could only propose and require us to believe . for 〈◊〉 the comment is made the creed instead the text , from that time we believe not god but in man. i heartily wish none 〈◊〉 been wise above what is written , and th● generals had concluded christians : th● charity had been better maintained , an● piety promoted : whereas strains or r●fines upon the text , have thrown us int● those labarinths of controversie , that th● zeal which should have been imployed t● suppress sin in all its branches , has too g●nerally been used to fire one party upo● another , till practice , which is religion indeed , was blown up by the generallity . s● much for our shortness or wavering , as the bishop calls it . i shall now attend his only necessary poin● of eight , that he thought fit to mention which , he says we either suppress or wave viz. the resurrection of the dead : i confess i did not think that any body would have been so uncharitable to us , after our acknowledging the future state of the just and unjust , since that implies it , and every medium to it . however i will attend what ●he bishop urges for proof of what we don't ●eny , but always must the slander of doing so . i will ( says he ) only mind you of two passages out of the scriptures of truth , cor. . , . if the deadrise not , your faith is vain , you are yet in your sins . hence it appears ( says the bishop ) all other points of faith are in vain , if this be not true . and so say i , as well as the bishop , and shall always say as he says , while he says no more than the text says : for who can think that allows himself to think , that we should not believe an immortality , who have exposed our selves , and suffered so much that we may obtain an happy one. but the question is not whether dead rise , but with what bodies : for if the dead rise not , then may we say with the apostle , verse . in the same chapter , we are of all men most miserable . so that the resurrection of the dead is out of all dispute with us : but with what body , will i believe , be one , till the dead rise . here it is we are cautious , and tread softly ; remembring what the apostle says to the curious and inquisitive upon this head , ver. , , , . but some man will say , how are the dead raised up , and with what bodies do they come ? thou fool , thou sowest not that body which shall be but bare grain . — but god giveth it a body as it had pleased him , and to every seed his own body . here is the ground of our caution , which the bishop is pleased to call suppressing , and others denying of the resurrection . we have indeed been negative to the gros● conceits of people concerning the rising of this carnal body , we carry about us which better agrees with the alcoran of mahomet , than the gospel of christ . but that there is a resurrection of the just and unjust to rewards and punishments , we have ever believed . and indeed we cannot but wonder that any should be displeased with us for being pleased with that which god i● pleased to give us . bodies we shall have , but not the same says the apostle , and so believes the quaker ; but god giveth every one a body as pleaseth him , and that pleaseth us , whoever it displeaseth : for we had rather be called fools ten times by the bishop , than once by the apostle , which we think we think we should deserve , if we should ●are to stretch the text , or presume to de●ine the secret. the other scripture urged by the bishop , ●n defence of what we never opposed , is rom. . . if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and believe in thine heart , that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . he adds , those who believe this as they should do , shall be saved . but that we have left out both christ's resurrection , and our own in our faith. in the ●irst part of his note , i agree with him , that ●●ll who rightly believe the text , will be saved : for that must be by the illumination and working of the saving power of christ in the heart , that he can so believe . but that we have left out christ's resurrection and our own , is a mistake already observed , because they are both plainly implied ; one in our belief of christ's being a propitiation for sin , and the light , life and strength of his people , and in giving us his grace and holy spirit , which that which is dead cannot do : and our own resurrection is sufficiently secured in our declared belief of rewards and punishments ; tho' the mode of it be not exprest : nor was there any reason for saying more upon that head with respect to the occasion of our papers being published . i am now come to the bishop's eighth paragraph , which comprehends his exceptions to three of our gospel-truths , viz. the th , th , and th , which wholly relate to the doctrine of the light of christ within man. and i am truly sorry to find the bishop at so great a loss , as that paragrap● shews him , about so excellent and evident principle , and which so very much concern him , and indeed all men to know . and that my reader may lnform himself throughly in this matter , i must desire him to look back and read those three gospel-truths and compare them with the bishop's eighth paragraph , and he will make himself much a better judge of the vallidity of the bishop's answer and my reply , and which 〈◊〉 us two keeps closest to the doctrine and language of the holy scriptures , that h●● in the same paragraph seems so much to respect . his first exception in this paragraph i● at our incapacity : for he says we have never been able yet , that he could find , to make out what we mean by the light of christ within . perhaps the bishop has never sought , or has sought amiss ; which as great and learned men as himself have done before ●ow , and so mist what they have sought ●or : and then it cannot be a wonder , that he has not found out what we mean by the light of christ in man. but that a bishop ●hould represent this an unintelligible doctrine , after reading so distinct and plain an account of it in r. b's apology , not to mention divers other books ; and which is of ●reater authority , the scriptures of truth , ●s no ordinary surprise to me . has the bishop forgot the first of john , and the th , ●th , and th , verses , where speaking of ●he word-god , he says in him was life , and the life was the light of men. this is that light of christ the quakers assert , and desire to turn the minds of all people too . for all must have it , if it be the light of all , as the text plainly tells us it is . the ninth verse is yet more express , viz. that was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world ; then which , nothing can be more express to our purpose . and that the bishop should feel no share in this glorious light of men , renders him very unfit , methinks , for an over●seer of them . i know some read this text otherwise , a● indeed he did to me in cork , viz. that wa● the true light , that coming into the world lighteth all men ; referring the word coming to christ , and not to man. but all th● versions i ever met with , and i have see● more than twenty , render the verse as it● in our english translations : and all c●●ticks and commentators , except the followers of socinus , read and render it as ●word do . and while we have so much company and so great authority , i think we nee● not be solliscitous about the success of thi● point . but besides that the foregoing veri●● tells us , that the divine life of the word god , is the light of men , which shews all mankind have it in them ( for it is the light of their minds , and not of their bodies ) it is impossible that interpretation should be true in a strict sense : for the coming of christ in that blessed manifestation was to the jews only : he says it himself , he was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of israel , matth. . . again , he came unto his own , and his own received him not john . . and within that narrow ●ompass he could not be said to be the light of all mankind that had , did and ●hould come into the world , for so both the ●th and th verse plainly import , viz. the light of mankind , without restriction to this or that manifestation of god to men. but the bishop is still at a loss what to ●ake of this light , and what we would be ●t ; for , says he , you will not allow it to be ●ither the natural rational faculty , or common ●nnate notions , or natural conscience , or conscience illuminated , by the preaching of the gospel , and the operation of the holy ghost ●hereby . we say , we would have it to be what the scriptures say it to be , viz. the light of christ , the son of god , who called himself , john . . the light of the world ; and if so , then every mans light ; the light of every mind and understanding , and consequently the light of christ within , too hard it seems for the bishop to comprehend , and yet so very easie , to the meanest capacity that observes the discoveries and convictions of it in their own hearts . but since it is , as he rightly terms it , a fundamental with us , we will follow the bishop , in his inquiries a little further . we say first then , it is not the natural rational faculty of man ; for then it would be man , or a part of his composition , meerly as man : but that it is not , but a manifestation in the soul of man , of christ , the word-god , the light of the world , the second adam , the lord from heaven , the quickning spirit ; who was full of grace and truth , and of whom man hath received , grace for grace : to wit , a tallent , a proportion suited to his want and capacity , to convince and convert him , to renew and restore him fro● his great lapse unto god , his blessed maker , again . in short , our natural rationa● faculty is our sight , but not our light● that , by which we descern and judge wha● the divine light shews us , viz. good from evil , and error from truth . but as the ey● of the body is the sensible faculty of seeing external objects , through the discovery that an external light ( as the sun in the firmament ) makes to the eye , but is not that light it self ; so does the rational faculty of the soul see spiritual or immaterial objects , through the illumination of the light of christ within , but is by no means that light it self , any more than the eye is the sun , or john the baptist was our blessed lord and saviour jesus christ , that was but servant and fore-runner of his blessed manifestation in the flesh . as for the bishop's innate notions , and natural conscience , if by them he means impressions , or principles wich are born and come with us into the world , viz. the law of god in the heart of man ; i must tell him , first , that this is not the language of the law and testimony he referrs us to in the same paragraph : and next , that as the work is not the workman , so they are not properly the light of christ , but the blessed fruit and effect of the light of christ , the word-god in man , which shines in the heart , and gives him the knowledge of god , and of his duty to him. so that the innate notions , or inward knowledge we have of god , is from this true light that lighteth every man , coming into the world , but is not that light it self . just so the bishop's natural conscience , must only mean a capacity that man has by nature ; that is , in his creation , of making judgment of himself , his duty , and actions , according to the judgment of god manifested to him by the light of christ within . not that such a capacity is that light ; but that it sees or understands by the inshining of the divine light , the things that belong to man's duty and peace . nor is it conscience , illuminated , by the preaching of the gospel , and the operation of the holy ghost thereon , which is the last of the bishop's constructions ; but that very principle of life & light , which illuminates the conscience , and was the very spring and force of the apostolical ministry , and of the conviction and conversion of their hearers , and which opened their hearts to receive the gospel when preach'd unto them . in short , this excellent principle is in man , but not of man , but of god. the nature of it is to discover sin , reprove for it , and lead out of it , all such as love and obey the convictions thereof . it is a principle of divine life that quickens the obedient heart to newness of life : it raises , the mind above the world to god , and searches out and reveals the deep things of god to the humble and waiting soul. and be it known to the bishop , and all that with him profess ignorance about what we mean by the light of christ within man , this is it , i have been treating of ; and i have writ , i bless almighty god , my own experience , the taste and relish i have had of its excellency and sufficiency in the course of far the greater and best part of my life . but the bishop must excuse me if i say , i ●annot but take it very ill at his hands , to ●orbid us in his following words , to pretend ●o give an account of what we believe , unless ●e can make him understand our meaning : and , ●ecause he does not penetrate our sense , to ●all our way of wording that blessed prin●iple of the light of christ in man , a per●ect banter . this to me is one of the seve●est persecutions , because spiritual things , ●re only to be spiritually discerned and un●erstood . i would fain know how a rege●erate man can possibly make a carnal man understand the new birth ? it is cer●ainly the gift of god to understand divine truths , as well as rightly to believe . so that supposing our assertion of the nature , power , and excellency of the light of christ in man to be true , not to have leave to say so , unless we could make every man rightly take our sence and meaning , whether he be spiritually discerning , or not , looks antichristian as well as unreasonable . we speak wisdom , says the apostle , among them that are perfect , cor. . . it seems others understand him not , must he therefore not have wrote of the things of god ? the very preaching of the gospel was foolishness to the wiselings of jews and greeks ; they could make neither head nor tail of it , by their way of judging of truth : must not the gospel therefore be preach'd ? when the apostle paul preach'd to the athenians , some of the men of the gown , the philosophers of that time , opposed and despised him , saying , what will this babbler say ? but had they known what he meant , we cannot think they would have said so to him. wa● the aposlte then , or the athenians in faul● that they did not understand him ? or was it bantering as well as babbling , because he did not make them understand his meaning ; which is only the work of the holy ghost to do ? who was it , i pray , tha● said the world by wisdom knew not god ? and can we suppose any thing else blinded the scribes and pharisees and the high-priest of the jews , from discerning the messiah when he came ? for they wanted not academical learning , if that could have enlightned them ; nor yet the scriptures , but they resisted the holy ghost their only true interpreter , and so stumbled and fell . let the bishop also have a care. in the second chapter of the first epistle to the corinthians , he will find that the a●ostle spake the wisdom of god in a , my●tery , which the prinees of this world knew ●ot , with all their wisdom : for the things ●f god , fays the apostle , knoweth no man , but the spirit of god ; by which those christians , knew those things that were freely given to them of god. which thing also we speak , says he , not in the words which mans wisdom teacheth , but which the holy ghost teachetb , comparing spiritual things with spiritual . but the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of god , for they are foolishness unto him : neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned . now , according to the bishops treatment of us , the apostle ought not to have writ of faith and salvation , unless he could have made all that read his writings understand his meaning . and it must be a perfect banter , to talk of speaking wisdom in a mystery , and not in the terms that man's wisdom teacheth . but the lord jesus christ was of another mind , when he said , i thank thee , o father , lord of heaven and earth , because thou hast hid these things ( the truths of the kingdom ) from the wise and prudent , and reveal'd them unto babes ; even so father , for so it seem'd good in thy sight . it is hence beyond all dispute that god hideth the mysteries of his kingdom from the wisdom of man , when simplicity and sincerity fail not to reach and understand them . here it was that poor nicodemus was absolutely at a loss for christ's meaning , when christ said , unless a man be born again , he can in no wise enter the kingdom of god , john . insomuch as he asked christ , upon his discourse of the new birth , how can these things be ? at which christ seems to admire , in a sort of reproof upon nicodemus , art thou a master of israel , and knowest not these things ? as much as to say , art thou , a man of thy station in the church of god , ignorant of the way to heaven ? whoever reads that notable interview between christ and nicodemus , will find that christ resolves the matter into two births , that which is born of the flesh , and that which is born of the spirit , and these are contrary : and therefore no wonder if they differ in their understanding of the holy scriptures , being a declaration of the faith and experience , as well as doctrine and practice of the servants of god that were enlightned and born of the holy ghost . nor is this all ; for they that are born of the flesh , persecute them that are born after the spirit : so that when they can no longer commit violence upon their persons and estates , they will persecute them with their tongues and pens : they are hereticks , blasphemers , illiterate and ignorant , yet presumptuous ; enemies to caesar , and disobedient to government , if they will not give god's due unto man , viz. conscience . and if they choose to deliver themselves in scripture stile , and speak earnestly of the necessity of the work of the spirit of god , in order to an experimental and saving knowledge of the truth , declared in holy scripture ; and that christ's ministers are made by the holy ghost , and not by humane learning ; and that the worship which is acceptable to god , must be in the spirit and in the truth ; that is , with clean hearts and right spirits , kindl'd and inflam'd with the holy spirit of god ; they must be called enthusiasts , unintelligible , men of cant and banter . and here i leave the bishop , upon this paragraph , desiring him to consider , whether his knowledge of god the father , and jesus christ , whom rightly to know is life eternal , john , be by the revelation of the son of god in his own soul , since christ himself teacheth and affirmeth , that no man knows the father but the son , and he to whom , the son reveals him : i should be glad to see the bishop's evidence for this knowledge . for in the conclusion of this paragraph ; he turns us to the scriptures , who in the beginning of it , makes us unintelligible and banterers in religion , for expressing ours in the terms of it ; which may well merit the bishop's serious reflexion . his ninth paragraph refers to our eighth article , as he calls it of which he cites these eight words only . worship under the gospel is inward and spiritual ; upon which , he says , if you mean , that outward worship ought to be accompanied with inward and spiritual worship , 't is what we preach , press and practice ; but if ( as it would seem ) you mean that all the worship , god now requires , is from the inward man , or from the spirit , this is abominably false ; for our bodies are god's handy-work , and god by the apostle commands , glorifie god in your body , and in your spirit , which are god's . not to tell you , that you your selves , now a-days , perform somewhat of bodily worship , indeed we do , and ever did , and ever shall , i hope , while we have bodies to worship god in . we are so ●ar from denying the body what share is ●ue to it , that with the apostle , cor. . ● . we say , what , know ye not that your bo●ies is the temple of the holy ghost , which is ●n you , which ye have of god , and you are not ●our own ? of which i would have the bi●hop well consider : for , if our very bodies are under the influence of the holy ghost , how much more reasonable is it to believe , that it dwells in our souls , and that our hearts must be prepared , and animated by the holy spirit , in all our devo●ion towards god. but two things i must remark to the bishop , first , that we did not give him the least occasion to suspect we deny'd bodily worship , as appears by the gospel-truth now in question : for 't is plain there , by these words , worship in this day is inward and spiritual , that we only distinguish'd between gospel worship , and the ceremonial , and pompous worship of the law ; and that by spiritual woship , we understand praying , praising , and preaching by the preparation and sanctification of the spirit of god ; which the bishop does not , and , i hope , dares not . deny : yet unkindly , and i think unjustly brings in his , as it would seem , to make us by an uncharitable innuendo look to his reader , as if we denied bodily worship . and yet , to avoid so hard a chapter , as maintaining this aspersion would prove to the bishop , he is forced to confess that now a-days we perform some-what of bodily worship ; as if we did not perform any formerly , and but a little now : which shews not that candor , that his character ows us , and but too plainly tells every impartial reader , how muck more mind he has that we should be in the wrong than in the right . i must confess we have le● pomp and gaudiness in our worship , as wel● as in our cloaths , than is the custom o● some other churches , and think it our happiness that we are freed from such an unprofitable as well as unsuitable incumberance . whatever it be , 't is such as we believe god by his holy spirit hath led us into : and tho' it be not so entertaining to those who are govern'd more by their outward senses than their souls , yet , i hope it will be allowed us to be grave , solemn and fervent . the other remark i make upon the bishop's exceptions is this , that the spiritual worship he there allows of , seems to be but the worship of man's spirit , and not of the spirit of god , working upon the spirit of man. i would not imitate him , lest i ●●ould be uncharitable too : for if my ●eader can make more of it , he has my ●onsent ; but that seems to me to be the ●ishop's interpretation upon christ's words ●ted by us on this occasion , viz. god will 〈◊〉 worshipped in spirit and in truth : tho' ●ere is a truth in that also , yet this nor ●eing so peculiar to the gospel dispensa●on , could not be the extent of christ's ●ords , whose drift certainly was , to draw mens minds to a more inward and spiri●ual worship : not only to have less cere●ony than was practis'd among the jews , ●ut to feel more of the power and spirit of god in our adoration and praises , than be●ong'd to the former dispensation ; and , with which , i heartily wish the bishop a ●etter acquaintance . upon the whole mat●er , i am apt to think my reader believes with me , he might as well have spared his pains upon us , about the first part of this gospel-truth , as he is silent of the latter , viz. that we may preach in power , as well as words , and as god promised , and christ ordained , without money / and without price . the bishop , in his tenth paragraph , is pleased to endeavour to lessen the authority and credit of our ninth gospel-truth relating to the vain fashions and customs o● the world. his words are these . you te● us of denying all the vain customs and fashion of the world , as also excess in all things ; 〈◊〉 know no sort of christians who teach otherwise● i wish i knew none ( even of your selves ) tha● practis'd otherwise ; it is one part of our c●techism we teach our children . he first concurs with our doctrine , for he says , 〈◊〉 knows none that preaches otherwise ; and th● they do the like in their catechism . s● far then he allows us to be sound . but h● wishes he knew none ( even of us ) that practice otherwise . this is a sort of charge , and being not prov'd , looks like a calumny● some perhaps do not walk quite so strictly as becomes them to their profession ; but are they own'd by us therein ? or indulged it self ? if not , what are we to conclude● but that the bishop's insinuation is to ballance accounts with us for the failures of his own people ? but , pray , are our excesses equal , or the numbers , that in proportion do transgress ? i would not have him comfort himself with his uncharitableness to his honest and friendly neighbours : as it will not excuse his less exact friends , that any of ours live larger , than they profess . so it cannot justly affect our body , ●here so few are faulty , when 't is so well ●nown that such are sure to meet with due ●eproof . but he adds , that there are many innocent ●nd laudable customs , we call vain : this 〈◊〉 all in a heap , and a reflection by whole●ale , i can truly tell him , i know of none : ●nd if he had been more particular , so would too : perhaps he thought generals bes● 〈◊〉 make his reflection safe : but if it were ●y place to be plaintiff , i could treat the ●ishop with a large catalogue of very of●ensive customs , that would concern him ●o think upon . however , he is pleased to ●e particular upon us in one of them , which ●lmost turns his stomach , he says , to think of , viz. would it not make a man's stomach ●urn , to hear one forbear , in point of conscience , saying [ you ] to a single person , because ●t is improper ; and at the same time , while ●e is speaking to his superiour , because thou ●ost sounds a little rudely , to soften the thou , ●nd say thee doest , which is commonly your peoples practice . it is pity the bishop could find nothing else to observe from us , that might have better edified us and his readers : yet if this be that , among the laudable customs which we call vain , which is most offensive to his stomach , it shews him to have a very weak one . however , a weak stomach is better then a weak head and such an one i should take mine to be if my instances were no more to the purpose and my readers instruction . but i have somewhat to say to the bishop , before i leave him , upon the old topick of sincerity , and charity , in this reflection , as i have had in most of the other viz. that he makes the ground of our conscientiousness , about the saying of you to 〈◊〉 single person , to be only propriety of speech which he ( i was going to say ) in his conscience must know is not so : but that the true reason of it is , first , that it is the language of the scriptures of truth ; and next , that the original of you to a single person , was pride and flattery , being a plural honour to a single person ; given first to potentates , and then gradually to all subordinate ranks of people . in ancient and unmixt tongues , thou to a single person is kept still , as also among the common people of the present languages and particularly in that kingdom where he is a bishop . i refer him to a book entituled , no cross , no crown , where he will find other reasons ●or our tenderness in that matter then he ●lledges , or we have room for here ; tho' ●he bishop confines us to propriety as the ●nly reason of our practice , that he might ●e better lash us with the impropriety of thee for thou ; which yet he might have ●pared , since nothing is more common with ●ll people , than to take the like freedom in ●peech , in cases as well as tenses ; not ●xcepting the learned themselves . but be ●t so , we keep numbers , and intend not ●lipping of cases , and that 's our point , tho' ●ot the bishop's , it seems ; which it should ●ave been , would he have been just to us upon the question . as for the levity and scorn , with which he is pleased to treat us upon this head , i shall only say , it unbecame him , and confirms us more than it exposes us , whatever it does him. but i confess , i am surprized , to find a man of his character , and pretensions , propose so loose a question as that with which he closes this paragraph : viz. will you ever be able to prove , the primitive christians used a dialect or dress , different from other of their nation or quality , and placed religion in it ? does not christ require saluting , those that salute not us ? and no doubt , ho● and his apostles salutations were in the common form. doubtless , we are able , most easily and fully : and 't is admirable to conceive how he could be ignorant of these proofs , who ought to be so well read in scripture and antiquity . i beseech you therefore brethern , says the apostle , by the mercies of god , that you present your bodies a living sacrifice , holy , acceptable unto god which is your reasonable service : and 〈◊〉 not conformed to this world / but be 〈◊〉 transformed by the renewing of your minds , rom. . , . again , the apostle peter , chap. . , . exhorts the believers , to gird up the loyns of their minds , and be sober , as obedient children , not fashioning themselves , according to the former lusts in their ignorance ; which was the custom of their countrey . and chap. . , . whose adorning let it not be that of plaiting the hair and of wearing of gold / or of putting on of apparel : but let it be the hidden man of the heart / in that which is not corruptible , even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit , which is in the sight of god , of great price . thus the apostolical counsel to the churches . but for all this , the bishop of cork cannot tell how to think we are ●ble to prove , that the primitive christians ●iffered in their dress , from other people of ●heir country and quality . nor was this ●nly the strictness of that time ; for the ●ame apostle adds , verse . as an argument 〈◊〉 enforce his advice ; for after this man●er , says he , in the old time , the holy wo●en also , who trusted in god , adorned them●lves . but can a man of his letters , realy ●e at a loss for a proof of the singularity of primitive christians , in dress , speech and behaviour ? or is it to try if we have any ●o resolve his question ? or taking our il●iterature for granted , that he puts upon ●●s ? i beseech him to converse with ouze●ius upon minutius faelix , and he will tell him that the first christians were tax'd , and despised for ill-bred , in manners , unpolish'd in speech , unfashionable in behaviour ; in ●fine , rustichs and clowns : as the christians irronically return'd their scorners the ●stile of well-bred and eloquent . this , and much more he cites out of arnobius , lactantius , theodoret , &c. and jerom writing to celantia and dometias , noble women of that time , sets them a singular form of life from that of the people of their quality : and paulinus bishop of nola , was so far from pleading for christians temporizing with the people of their own nation , or quality , according to the bishop of cork , that he sharply reproves sulpitius severus for it , in a letter to him ; as the learned casaubon in his discourse of use and customs , observes . if the bishop would look into the constitutions , that go under the name of clemens romanus , with tertullian , gregory naz. clemens alexandrinus , austin , gregory the great , and other ancients , he would perceive the care and zeal of those eminent men to suppress the education and custom● of the gentiles , and to encourage and recommend the simplicity and moderation of the manners and behaviour of the first christians , which machiavel in his d book of disputations takes notice of , and is none of the least proofs to our point . and to finish my authorities , passing by petrus belonius , gratian , cardan , luther , &c. i must recommend to the bishop the history of the waldenses ( an early people , if not successive from the primitive times ) written by one perrin , more especially containing their faith , worship and discipline ; and there he may , if he please , observe the simplicity , plainess and distinction of that people from the customs of the countries ●hey lived in , and those that have the name ●f reformed ones now . but he tells us , christ and his apostles had ●alutations ; and i tell him , so have we ●ut he will have it that christ and his a●ostles saluted after the fashion of the coun●ry they were in ; which is sooner said then ●rov'd . for christ asked the jews , how ●an you believe that receive honour one of ano●her , and seek not the honour that cometh from god only ? now this certainly must be unlawful to give or receive , which hinders true faith. and what was this ho●our , but salutations after the fashion of the times ? as the text shews , mat. . and for calling , and being called of men rabbi christ was so far from commanding , or imitating them in such things , that he expresly forbids it . but the meaning of christ's ●aying , mat. . and if ye salute your brethren only , what do ye more then others ? do not even the publicans so ? is this , that in all acts of love , mercy , and goodness they were to exceed the practice of that time : they were to take more notice of , and to look more kindly and friendly upon all men. but in another sense , he that bid them salute enemies as well as friends , also forbids his disciples to salute any man , or call any man rabbi or master ; for that one was their lord and master , and they were all brethren , mat. . , , . and luke . . and between such relations worldly honours were of no use , as well as of no value . and did a primitive spirit prevail in those that so much pretend to be the successors of the apostles , we should see them more exemplary in self-denial and holiness ; encouraging and not undervaluing and brow-beating the serious and conscientious . but trees are known by their fruit ; for grapes are not gathered of thorns , nor figs of thistles . in the mean time , if my reader please to peruse the ninth and tenth chapters of that book entituled , no cross , no crown , he will , i hope be satisfied , that we are for honour , respect and civility according to scripture ; tho' non-conformists to the empty and troublesome ceremonies of the times , left by us , not of rudeness , but conviction ; and forbore of duty and no otherwise of choice . for , humanely speaking , that contradiction to custom cannot be pleasant to us . i have detained my reader longer upon this head than i expected , or perhaps he desired : i shall therefore proceed to the bishops next paragraph , which contains his exceptions to our tenth gospel-truth about baptism and the supper , and the ●ast he has to take notice of , the eleventh , about government , , being by him already granted in the beginning of his paper . he begins thus , in your xth article you believe a spiritual baptism and a spiritual supper and communion , but acknowledge , you disuse the outward signs , by us commonly called sacraments : now did not christ command water-baptism ? go ye and baptize all nations , matth. . , . he goes on , the baptism here commanded was water-baptism : his reasons are first , that baptizing with the spirit was god's work , not the apostles . dly , primitive practice , acts . , . in cornelius's case ; who can forbid water ? but this is also gratis dictum : for the first reason is no reason , since it is not true : and the second seems to me defective and short. i am very sensible of the disadvantage i am under , and that i touch a tender place , and what i say upon this head , as also anon upon the supper , will be against wind and tide with the generality . but as i hope i shall express my self reverently as well as plainly upon this occasion , so i beseech my reader , for his own sake as well as ours , not to prejudge us ; as i am sure he will not if he be a searcher after truth , and that i charitably suppose of him . i say then the bishop's first reason is not true ; for god by the apostles did baptize believers with the holy ghost . it fell-upon them , through the powerful preaching of the word : thus , acts . . while peter yet spoke these words , the holy ghost fell on all them which heard the word . by which it is evident that peter , in that sermon , was the minister of the spiritual baptism to cornelius and his company . and peter gives this account to those of the circumcision at jerusalem , acts . . and as i began to speak , the holy spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning : then remembred i the word of the lord , how that he said john indeed baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy spirit . so that peter evidently declares the gift of the spirit by the ministry of the gospel , to be the baptism of christ , or the baptism of the holy spirit and fire , which christ promised at his ascension into heaven . but the apostle paul puts this matter beyond all doubt , in his excellent account ●e gives of his conversion and commission to king agrippa , acts . where my reader will find these words dropping from the mouth of the lord jesus to saul ; delivering thee from the people , and from the gen●iles , to whom now i send thee , to open their eyes / and to turn them from darkness to light / and from the power of satan unto god / that they may receive forgiveness of sins , and an inheritance among them which are sanctified through faith that is in me , verse , . now if this could be done without the holy ghost , let my reader judge . 't was with the holy ghost that peter's hearers were prick'd to the heart , and fitted to receive more of it : and it was by the same holy ghost that paul's hearers had the eyes of their minds opened , to see the mysteries of god's kingdom , and by which they were converted from darkness to light , that they might receive the forgiveness of their sins , and inheritance among them which are sanctified . so that the very end and benefit of the apostolical ministry was converting , that is , baptizing them into christianity ; in the nature , power and life of it , by the holy ghost . now for the bishop's second reason , viz. practice : i say it is granted that water-baptism having got place among them by john's ministry , the fore-runner , it held after christ's coming ; but that was ex gratia , and of condescention , not of commission ? for that properly ceases when his ministration begins , of which john's was but the fore-runner . for moses and the prophets were till john , and john till christ . and this , john the water-baptist tells us , mat. . . i indeed baptize you with water unto repentance , but he that cometh after me is mightier than i , he shall baptize you with the holy ghost and with fire , see mark . . luke . . here 's a different baptism and baptizer , the servant and the master , the water and the holy ghost . one transcient , the other permanent : one the end of the jewish , and the other the beginning of the gospel dispensation . wherefore says our lord jesus christ , the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than john , matth. . . why is not john in heaven ? no doubt of it at all , and a glorious saint too : but the least in christ's dispensation , viz. the kingdom of god in the soul , the work of christ , the baptizer with the holy ghost and fire , is greater than john , as to the nature of his administration . see john . , . he must increase , but i must decrease . what! john decrease , or his ministration ? his ministration certainly , which he calls earthly in comparison of christ's . so that the baptist in his watery dispensation did but fore-run christ , in reference to the kingdom that he was to set up in men. he pointed to christ , and shewed what christ was to do , viz. to wash , fan , and throughly purge his floor ; that is , his people , and sanctifie them throughout , by his spiritual baptism , according to the apostle , in body , soul and spirit , . thess . . so that in short , practice properly can be no institution , where the thing practic'd has no commission , which i suppose the bishop will not think fit to deny : but , says he , it has a commission , mat. . . which is , under favour , bur his say so ; and that i think it is no more , i do with all humility and submission say , first , i cannot tell how to reconcile it to good sense , or common usage in sacred or civil matters , that any thing should be in force by a commission that is not so much as once named in the commission . i say , to me it does not appear congruous any more than cogent , or obliging . and this is the cause in hand : for there is not a word of water in the text alledged for water ; nor yet in the context . and unless there were no other baptism than that of water , as there are several , it must at least be allowed to be a question , what baptism christ meant in that commission , when he sayd . go ye therefore and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , son and holy ghost . but it may be returned upon me ; nor does the text say it is the baptism of the holy ghost , and so the bishop is upon equal terms with me . grant it , that the word holy ghost is not litterally joined to baptizing , any more than the word water in that part : but if i am able to shew that the thing is there , and that the baptism of the holy ghost was the subject of christ's discourse , when he gave that commission at his farewell , i presume it will be granted me , that christ intended a spiritual , and not a water baptism ; and that is what i shall do , i hope with much clearness . first , the fact , and then my arguments . matthew , the evangelist , large in his history upon other points , seems short and abrupt in the context of this commission , as the reader may observe . and as it is usual for one evangelist to explain another , which was the great wisdom , as well as goodness of god , that those christian memorials might come with less suspition to the world of any humane contrivance ; so luke supplies the shortness of the other evangelist in his context to this commission . luke . to . particularly the , , . verses . and ●hat repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name , among all nations , beginning at jerusalem . and ye are witnesses of these things . and behold i send the promise of my father upon you : but tarry ye in the ci●y of jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high. where , as it is plain that this evangelist in his account of christ's commission , to wit , the work christ gave his disciples to do , names no baptizing at all , tho' that which it implies , in my sense of the word , is there , viz. the promise of the father , which is the power from on high they were to tarry at jerusalem for . so is there not one word of water here mentioned , to induce us to think that christ intended to give it any place in his commission . in short , it appears that the disciples were to be qualified before they were to go forth as his witnesses , and that this qualification is the promise of the father , that he would quickly send them . now i must desire my reader to turn to the acts of this evangelist , chap. . , . where he further opens the manner and matter of christ's discourse , and farewell to his disciples : and ( christ ) being assembled with them , commanded them , that they should not depart from jerusalem , but wait for the promise of the father , which , saith he , ye have learnt of me : for john truly baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy ghost not many days hence . it can be , me-thinks , no longer a doubt what baptism it is that christ's words , mat. . . refers to , since we see not only that christ distinguishes betwen john's baptism and his own , and between water and holy ghost ; but also he assigns water baptism to john , as his baptism , and not christ's , and thereby declares the holy ghost to be his own baptism , and none of john's , and which yet is no more than what john had said before . so that comparing both texts together , mat. . . with acts . , . we may see , if we please , that the commission in the one , is to be explained by the qualifications in the other , which was omitted by the first evangelist . there they are bid to go , here they are bid to stay : that is to say , stay , before you go , and receive your qualification before you go to qualify , viz. the promise of the father ; that is , the baptism of the holy ghost , which is followed by the power from on high , verse . and indeed , had we not this express force on our side from the text it self , the word therefore in the commission , ( referring plainly to the foregoing verse , as the reason of what follows ) justifies our sense . for whereas the bishop has objected against our assertion , that it must not be a spiritual baptism , because that was the work of god , and not of the apostles : it is plain that our lord takes off the force of his exception , since the reason why he bid them go , &c. is because , says he , all power in heaven and in earth is given unto me . verse . as much as if he had said , go , do all that i have said unto you , and be not doubting or fearful / about the performance of it , for all power in heaven and earth is given unto me that bids you go , and lo i am with you alway , even unto the end of the world , which need not have been said , as an encouragement to them , in reference to water baptism , since that was practised by them , as well as by john's disciples long before . nor is this all ; for the very text , duely considered , will not have it to be water , since that could baptize none into the name of the father , son and holy ghost , and so the bishop knows the greek text runs , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for they that are baptized into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , must be baptized with the baptism of the holy ghost . since it is to become their likeness , and bear their image , which is holiness . and had not the apostles understood their commission as i render it , when they had baptized with water , they would certainly have used the terms that bore the force of their commission , viz. in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ; of which there is not one instance in all the scripture . but that which further shews that water cannot be understood , to be meant in the apostolical commission , is , that one of the greatest of the apostles , he that came behind ( and was added to , by ) none of them , denys it , cor. . . to be any part of his commission ; for , says he , christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel : and thanks god for that reason , in the foregoing verses , that he had baptized so few : which to be sure he ought not to have done ; but on the contrary to have been sorry he had baptized no more , had water-baptism been part of the apostolical commission , mat. . . again this eminent apostle , the great grand father [ not to say god-father ] of gentile christians , delivered to them for doctrine , eph. . . that there was but one lord , one faith , and one baptism . and if so , that must be the baptism of fire and the holy ghost , which is christ's baptism , and proper to the gospel dispensation . now could any other make a man a true christian , or a child of god then ; nor can any be so now without it. that baptism therefore , without which a man cannot be a true jew , or christian , or of the circumcision made without hands , that worship god in the spirit , and hath no confidence in the flesh , must needs be the one baptism ; but such is the baptism of the holy ghost : therefore the spiritual baptism is the apostles one baptism , rom. . , . phil. . . again ; the one baptism must be christ's baptism , but christ is the baptism of the spirit , therefore that , and not water baptism , must be the one baptism that 's in force , according to the apostle . as john was the fore-runner of christ , so was water , of the holy ghost : but that which fore-runs , in nature ceases , and that which succeeds , of course remains : therefore the baptism of the spirit , is the one needful , and permanent baptism . yet further ; if it be gospel , that he is not a jew that is one outward , nor that circumcision that is outward in the flesh ; but that he is a jew that is one inward , and that is circumcision that is of the heart , in the spirit , and not in the letter ; whose praise is not of men but of god , as rom. . , . then unanswerably , he is not a christian that is one outward , nor is that baptism that is of the flesh : but he is a christian that is one inwardly , and that is baptism that is of the heart / in the spirit ; whose praise is not of men but of god. for indeed in all ages men cry him down , as a slighter of god's ordinances ; but his praise however is of god , let men say what they will ; and this is the inward christians comfort , in all undervaluings and reflexions he meets with from outside christians . for it 's not to be thought that the apostle meant or designed to undervalue one observation , as that of circumcision , because it is outward , and set up another outward observation instead of it , viz. water-baptism . again , if in christ jesus , neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but a new creature / as saith the same apostle , gal. . . then by the same reason , neither being baptized with water availeth any thing , not being unbaptized with water , but a new creature . i will repeat the apostles discourse at large upon this subject , in the same chapter , because it is very instructing , and seems discissive in this case ; as many , says he , as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh / they constrain you to be circumcised ; only least they should suffer persecution for the cross of christ . it seems they were outside people , that laid stress upon outside things ; or something else instead of the cross of christ ; for they temporized in this matter , to shun the shame and persecution that then attended the christians cross : which stood partly in laying down of outward observations ; and which they that desire to make a fair shew in the flesh stand most for . but the apostle goes on ; for ( says he ) neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law , but desire to have you circumcised , that they may glory in your flesh . they were not exact in the other parts of the law , it seems , as strict as they seemed to be for this sacramental practice , which is the case of too many now : yet they prest it , that they might glory and value themselves upon gaining others to be conformable to them , whether to excuse their compliance with custom , that they might avoid persecution , or out of love to ceremonial religion . but says that clear-sighted and plain-dealing apostle , god forbid that i should glory , save in the cross of our lord jesus christ , whereby the world is crucified unto me , and i unto the world. if he rejoyced in nothing but in the cross of christ , then in no other elementary rite , service or ordinance , any more than in circumcision . but he proceeds : for in christ jesus , neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but a new creature . that is to say , for according to christ jesus , or in the religion of christ jesus , neither circumcision nor uncircumcision availeth , but a new creature , a regenerate soul ; one born again by the spirit of god : for the apostle in these excellent words , not only strikes at circumcision , but all outward and elementary observations : neither this , nor that outward thing availeth in the christian religion , or according to christ jesus , but a new creature : he does not say , but water baptism , as some would have it , who tell us that it succeeds circumcision by divine institution , by no means : but that which availeth with christ , and in the rel●gion of christ jesus , is a new creature , a ●ew man , one changed , regenerated , or born gain by the word and baptism of the holy ghost . and says the apostle ( to confirm ●hem in this doctrine of inward circumci●ion , that is of the heart , in the spirit ; which ●s the same thing with the baptism of the spirit ) as many as walk according to this rule , peace shall be upon them . so that we the ●oor despised quakers , take comfort in this apostolical benediction , and can say to god's glory , his peace has been upon us in our belief and confession of this blessed doc●rine of the new creature . it is what we have aimed at , and has been the great drift of our testimony since we were a people ; and in order to it have directed all to the gift of god's grace in themselves , that by believing in it , and resigning up their wills and affections , and whole man to the teaching and conduct of it , they may be leavened and sanctified by it , throughout ; by which the state of the new creature , which is christianity indeed , will be experienced , though it was and is a mystery to the world. as for the apostle peter's question , acts . , . can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , which have received the holy ghost as well as we ? it imports , with submission , no more than this ; that peter well knowing the narrowness of his country mens spirits , was cautious lest his latitude should distaste them : for the gentiles being unholiness to the jews , and even peter himself , without a vision from god , too narrow spirited for the convictions and devotion of that excellent centurion , cornelius ; it behoved him to ask if any body had any thing to say , why they might not be baptised as well as the jews , being proselites to the christian profession . in all which he seems more concerned to save his own credit , than to recommend or establish that of water baptism : as if he had said , why should this custom be forbid to the gentiles more than to the jews ? but this will not warrant the practice in general , because practice is no institution , and that their appears no command to make it one . so that asking who can forbid what was not commanded , strengthens his question instead of weakening it ; since what was done of condescention , could not have been forbid upon authority . there needed not so much care or strickness in the matter . and indeed , the apostles themselves seem not to have been so clear about the abolishing of the jewish observations , as appears by the want peter had of a vision , his own apprehension of the straightness of his brethren , and their calling him to account for what he had done , as may be seen in the same chapter . but i confess i cannot see why the bishop should assume the power of unchristianing us , for not practising of that which he himself practices so unscripturally , and that according to the sentiments of a considerable part of christendom ; having not one text of scripture to prove that sprinkling of water in the face , was the water baptism , or that children were the subjects of water-baptism , in the first times . and yet this is all the baptism the bishop practices , who seems so severe upon us . i think our forbearing of water baptism from a belief and sense of the coming of the invisible grace , signified by that visible sign , cannot be reputed such a slight to water baptism , as presuming to alter the manner and substance of its first institution : for then it was in the river of jordan , now in a bason ; it was then unto repentance , now to children uncapable of repentance . but that which perhaps misled the doctors of the declining church first into this practice , being at the distance of some hundreds of years from the apostolical times , might be the supposition that water baptism came in the place of circumcision , and that being to children , so might water baptism too . but they forgot ( among other things , which even before that time were crept into the church , without precept or evangelical example ) that repentance was not made a condition to circumcision , at it was to water-baptism . i would beseech the bishop to tread softly in this matter ; for if water baptism should indeed prove a badge of christianity , he would be at a loss for one that would pass currant in scripture . thus much for this point . what i have said upon this head of water baptism may serve also for what is commonly called the lord's supper , which the bishop reproves us for omitting to practice : urging luke . . this do in remembrance of me . and the apostles words , . cor. . . . it is true indeed christ said , when he eat it with his disciples . that they should do it in remembrance of him till he came . and this seems much more of the nature of a commission than that cited by the bishop for water baptism : but the limitation christ ●ives to the practice of it , and a right and ●roper consideration of the import of his ●ords , and the nature of the thing will best ●ad us to undestand his mind therein . st , this was also a jewish practice , as ●ell as water baptism , and so in nature of ●o gospel institution , but temporary in its ●se . dly , christ seems by this to break or ●pen to them what was so hard for them to ●ear , to wit , his departure and death , by a ●oken of memorial till he should come to ●hem again . dly , christ takes occasion from thence ●o shew forth to his disciples the mystical supper they should eat , and the fellowship ●hey should have with him when he came again . now we believe this coming was spiritual , suitable to that saying of his , i will drink no more of this fruit of the vine till i drink it new with you in the kingdom of my father : and some here shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom , matth. . . again , he that dwelleth with you shall be in you , john . i in them and they in me , chap. . all which plainly imports a spiritual coming . also rev. . . behold i stand at the door and knock , if any man hear my voice , and open the door , i will come into him , and will sup with him and he with me , which was said near fourty years after his ascention . now since this is acknowledged to be an outward sign of an inward and invisible grace , what can outward bread and wine more properly signifie and resemble , than inward bread and wine ? and an outward than an inward supper ? and if so , the words may reasonably be read thus , eat this supper of outward bread and wine , till i come into and sup with you , and be your supper , that am the bread and wine from heaven which nourishes the soul unto eternal life . thly . the kingdom of god being spiritual and in the soul , such should be the ordinances of that kingdom . now christ tells the pharisees , luke . . the kingdom of god is within . and the apostle paul , rom. . . saith , the kingdom of god is not meat and drink / but righteousness / and peace and joy in the holy ghost : but the outward supper is meat and drink , and therefore not of the kingdom of god which is not meat and drink / but righteousness / peace and joy in the holy ghost . and this was made use of by christ in the state of humiliation , before his death , and the pouring forth of the holy ghost , to fasten upon his disciples that were weak , and of little faith , the remembrance of him till they should know him with them and in them by his spiritual appearance ( as he was the lord from heaven , the quickning spirit ) according to his promise . for if the scripture be consulted , we shall not only find that christ reproves the apostles for their infide●ity in him , but after all the example , precepts and miracles they saw by him , and that he had so very lately left them with such assurances of his coming to them again ; yet when mary , &c. brought them the tidings of his resurrection , it is said , luke . , . their words seemed to the disciples as idle tales , and they believed them not . which sufficiently shews the low state they were in , or that at least they needed a sign or token , as that of the supper to commemorate him. but this reason , which is yet true , does not credit its continuation ; for when the spirit was come , or christ in his spiritual appearance , their eyes were opened and they saw then it was the spirit that quickens , the flesh profiteth nothing . john . . thly , most certainly christ meant no less , when he preach'd himself the bread that came down from heaven , john . to , and that they that would have life eternal , must eat his flesh and drink his blood : that is , they must feed upon spiritual food : not the outward but inward supper ; the thing signified and substance it self . for christ opposes himself , who is the bread of god , to the bread their fathers eat in the wilderness who were dead , which was of an elementary nature ; therefore it can never be that such bread as perisheth should be the bread of the evangelical supper , when christ by companion undervalues it to the bread he had to give them . thly , our blessed lord , mark . . taught , that it was not that which went into the man that defileth the man , because it went but into his body , and not into his heart ; and if so , the argument is undeniable , that it is not that wich goeth into the man , that is , into his body , and not into his heart , that sanctifieth the man : but material bread and wine goeth only into the body , and not into the heart ; therefore they cannot sanctifie . the import of christ's words is plainly this , meats and drinks neither defile nor sanctifie ; they neither benefit nor harm any one upon a spiritual account : consequently elementary bread and wine cannot be the evangelical supper , but a figure of it , which is ended in christ the bread of god , that cometh down from heaven , john . , , , , . that a man may eat of and not dye : the substance of all shadows ; for saith the apostle , the body is of christ ; and where that is , our lord tells us , luke . . the engles are gathered together : where the apostles ; wise men , cor. . . seek for the true supper , which nourishes their souls unto eternal life . thly , but the bishop will have this supper four times repeated in the scripture of the new testament , besides that of the apostle paul , which must be his mistake — since there is no command to practice it beyond that very time , but in luke . . if there it self . for tho' his eating of the passover is there related , as also in mark and luke , it was but once done ; and the command , this do in remembrance of me , is only once related among the evangelists , as well as it is but once commanded . and would we be strict with the bishop , we need not allow him that command to reach further than the present time in which it was given ; for this do , or take eat , are equally in the present tence , for thereby you shew forth my death . and the following words , viz. i will drink no more of this fruit of the vine , until that day when i drink it new with you in my father's kingdom , mat. . . further explains it . thus mark has it , . . verily i say unto you , i will drink no more of the fruit of the vine until that day that i drink it new in the kingdom of god. luke . . gives it thus , i say unto you , i will not drink of the fruit of the vine till the kingdom of god shall come . now it is plain that christ refers them to the spiritual supper , which we prefer and practice , and which is the supper signified by that of outward bread and wine , that was to serve till the kingdom of god came , and then he would communicate with them in a way suitable to the kingdome : which kingdom , as before said , is not meat and drink , but righteousness , peace and joy in the holy ghost . and as the same apostle has it , cor. . . the kingdom of god is not in word but in power ; of which power , and its coming from on high upon the apostles , read acts . , , . for when they asked christ , lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom again to israel , and that he told them , 't was not for them to know the times or the seasons which the father had put in his own power . he also adds , but ye shall receive power after the holy ghost is come upon you , and ye shall be witnesses unto me , both in jerusalem and judea , and in samaria , and in the uttermost parts of the earth . this power was the kingdom of god , for it stands in power , says the apostle ; but it seems he thought fit to wave their question , as to a direct answer , and left it a secret to be revealed unto them , when the holy ghost should come , and the power from on high should fall upon them : and thus he takes his leave of them , and is immediately received by a cloud out of their sight . before i conclude with this paragraph , i would observe , first , that it was the passover and custom of the jews , which properly speaking , we conceive hath no just plea to continue as a gospel ordinance or institution ; since it was a type of him to come , & therefore ended , as to institution by his coming . secondly , that the evangelist john , the beloved disciple , that lay in the bosom of christ , does not so much as mention it , or water baptism , as left by christ to be continued by his followers , concerning the spirit 's baptism , tho' he uses not the word baptism , yet he is very full , john , , . chapters , where he tells them , that he would send them the comforter the spirit of truth , to lead them into all truth , and that he would dwell with them for ever . i say it seems very improbable if not incredible , that what the bishop stiles the badges of christianity in his th paragraph , should be wholly forgotten by so great an apostle of christianity . dly . and as the beloved disciple says nothing of these visible signs , which the bishop calls the badges of christianity , so neither are they made an article of any of the ancient creeds extant , which certainly does not make for their credit or authority : since had they then been of that importance they are now by some esteemed , we cannot think they would have been forgot by the compilers of those creeds . ly . the apostle paul , though he repeats the tradition he received of the lord's supper , that night he was betrayed , does not injoyn it ; but as often as the corinthians did it , he tells them they should do it in remembrance of christ : which is far from commanding it , as it would be for the bishop , if he should say to his friend , as often as he comes to cork he should come and eat with him , obliges that person to come often to cork . so that tho' the apostle bids them , that as often as they did it , they should do it in remembrance of christ , yet he does not thereby bid them do it often , if at ail . ly . and whereas the bishop would make it a fresh revelation to the apostle , when he says for i have received of the lord , that which also i delivered unto you , i must dissent from him . i cannot apprehend that means any more than this , that what account he had received of christ's eating the supper with his disciples , the night he was betrayed , the same also he had delivered unto them : for what need could there be of an immediate revelation for so late a fact , so well witnessed by the disciples ? but if my reader will peruse that part of the chapter which relates to the supper , he will find the stress lies upon remembring of the lord , which is indeed our daily , indispensible duty , and he that lives without it , may be said to live without god in the world ; of which those corinthians at that time seemed to insensible , and as such are severely reproved by the apostle , being irreverent , greedy and drunken , hardly fit for the sign , and less able to discern the thing signified . ly . nor does the apostle seem to recommend this practice , but rather reprehend their abuse of it ; and if my reader will look back to the foregoing chapter , from the beginning to die verse , he may find a more spiritual supper , and mystical bread and cup hinted at by the apostle , as well as mat. . . rev. . . by our lord jesus christ himself : which is indeed very copiously exprest by luke in the parable of the supper , chap. . from the . to die . . verse , where one that was at meat with christ , speaking of the blessedness of eating of bread in the kingdom of god , christ takes occasion to shew forth the gospel supper by a parable , viz. a certain man made a great supper , and bid many , but they refused , upon divers pretences , and came not ; he sent out a second and third time to invite an inferiour sort of guests , and they came to the supper ; that is , they received the gospel , which is the power of god to salvation , and the evidence , as well as means of it : which christ in the th verse further expresses , thus ( viz. ) and whosoever doth not bear my cross and follow me cannot be my disciple . now the cross of christ , the same apostle also says , is the power of god , cor. . . all which referrs to an inward and spiritual work , and supper , and that they who receive christ in spirit , sup with him in spirit , being the partakers of his spiritual supper , which christ promises and prepares for all those that open at his knocks the door of their hearts unto him , rev. . ly . but besides what i have said , both from scripture and the nature of the thing , in proof of christ's spiritual supper and defense of our disuse of the visible sign , the bishop himself does the same thing in relation to another ordinance : for our lord jesus christ did as solemnly command his disciples to wash one anothers feet , as to eat the supper . the passage is large and edifying , and i must recommend it to my reader to peruse in his bible , john . but that part of it which more strictly concerns this point , between the bishop and me , i shall repeat here , verse , , , . so after he had washed their feet , and taken his garments and was set down again ; he said unto them , know ye what i have done to you ? ye call me master and lord ; and ye say well ; for so i am , if i then , your lord and master , have washed your feet , ye also ought to wash one anothers feet : for i have given you an example that ye should do as i have done to you . thus christ commanded his disciples , not only by his authority but example . now does the bishop and his friends follow christ's example and obey this precept ? he and they know they do not . what must i infer from thence , that the bishop is no christian ? i suppose he would take it very ill from me . tho' he has treated me and my friends after that sort . but i will shew him a better example , and suppose he thinks , that if christian ministers and people , walk humbly towards god and one with another , they fulfil this commandment , tho' they disuse the sign , by which the lord jesus exprest and recommended humility to his followers : now that which excuses the bishop in reference to this ordinance of washing of feet , will also excuse our disuse of the supper , viz. our eating of the spiritual bread and wine of the kingdom ; the thing signified by the outward supper . but it is an error incident to srail man , to prefer the practice of those things that have a shew of religion , and have least of uneasiness , and of the nature of the cross of christ in their performance . just thus it is easier to receive the supper than to be humble , if not easier than to wash feet : for one is but a memorial of christ , but the other perhaps is a reproach of present practice , and to be sure a command to mortification and self-denial , the hardest lesson in religion . and who knows but for the reason it has been dropt so long ; since it must be very uneasie for people to continue a custom , to which their daily practice is so visible a contradiction : though i hear the roman bishop ●●mocks the text once a year . ly . but in relation to the supper , we farther say , the practice is varied : then they sat , ●ow one sort stands , another walks , a third kneels , a fourth lies down upon the ground , as in the east countries . the romans have one opinion , the greeks another , and the lutherans and calvinists divide , to great bitterness , in their sentiments about it. ly . again , in those days they were disciples , such as followed christ , now all are admitted that profess christianity , tho' they do not follow him or forsake any thing for his name sake , or keep any of his holy precepts , matth. , , chapters . ly . nor is this all we have to say to justifie our disuse of this practice ; it is too much look'd at , and relied upon by the people : and indeed is become a kind of protestant extream unction ; for if the generality of them can but have it administred just before they die , they are too apt to presume upon it for an acceptance in the other world. and indeed it is very frequent , if not natural , for many men to excuse their disobedience by sacrifice ; and where ceremonies or shadowy services are continued , people rest upon their observance of them , and indulge themselves in the neglect of the doctrine of the cross of our lord jesus christ . i need not look far , nor yet the bishop for a proof of what i say ; we can hardly miss , which way soever we throw out eyes , the more is the pity : and as this is no small abuse of primitive practice , so no small argument for our disuse of it . for when the brazen serpent was over-valued by the jews , god , that had commanded it , for their benefit , stirred up hezekiah to destroy it . ly . besides , these things are become matter of gain , and made a sacerdotal revenue , not to say merchandize ; which has also helpt to scandalize people to tender consciences , who think it a prophanation of religion to suffer any part of it to be excised to the people that ought to be free. ly . but passing that by at present , and supposing water baptism and the supper were not antiquated , but still in force , who is there qualified to administer them ? who has received a commission , or the mind of the holy ghost , and power from on high to perform these things ? for if those that hold they are in force , have no divine force or authority to qualifie them to administer them , there will be but a lifeless imitation , instead of an edifying reality . which ●eads me to what i promised long since , that i would at the close of this discourse ●ay something of the true ground of our difference and dissent . i say then , that where we are supposed to ●iffer most , we differ least ; and where we ●re believed to differ least , we most of all differ : which i explain thus . it 's generally thought , that we do not hold the common doctrines of christianity , but have introduced new and erroneous ones in lieu thereof : whereas we plainly and entirely believe the truths contained in the creed that is commonly called the apostles ; which is very comprehensive as well as ancient . but that which hath affected our minds most , and engaged us in this separation , was the great carnality and emptiness both of ministers and people , under their profession of religion : they having hardly the form of godliness , but generally speaking , denying the power thereof ; from whom , the scripture warns believers to turn away . next ministers being made such , and preaching , and the people worshipping without the spirit , confining the operations of it , to the first or apostolical times , as if these did not want them , as much , or that christ would be less propitious , where his gifts were not less needful . i say , an humane and lifeless ministry and worship , together with the great wordliness of professors , have occasioned our separation ; and the persecution that has commonly followed it , hath abundantly confirmed our judgment in that matter . hence it was we retired our selves to wait upon god together , according to the gift of his holy spirit , and as the apostle paul exhorted the athenians acts . we felt after him ( with our souls ) if by any means we might find him , and hear what god the lord would say unto us ; who speaks peace unto his people and his saints , but let them never turn to folly any more . we could not , i say , tell how to think that such as god had never sent , but run of themselves , and were made ministers by humane learning and authority , not knowing the work of the spirit to their own regeneration , could possibly profit or edifie the people unto their regeneration : and yet that is the very work and end of the true gospel ministry , for no man can guide another in the way he never trod . besides , we apprehended the ministry was ●ery much a temporal preferment , and there●ore few were to be found among them , that ●●d not court the better places , i mean those ●●at gave the greatest pay ; and by those ●ethods mounted to worldly wealth and ●onour , as the rest of the world did : turn●●g alms into dues and by law , making ●ifts rents ; and vexing those extreamly , ●●at for conscience sake could not uphold ●●em : which we thought very foreign to primitive and an apostolical spirit ; and ●ort of a true and through reformation . this is not said with any disrespect to their ●ersons , or yet calling , simply considered ; for ●e that desires the office of a bishop , certainly ●esires a good thing ; but the holy ghost in ●hose days , had the making of them ; and the ●ood thing then was their service , and not ●evenue or worldly dignity . they were then ●ot only no lords ( one being their lord ) ●ut they lorded it not over god's clergy or he●itage , which was the people in those days , ●or ●o the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , tho' it is now ●●scribed only to the ministry . then the ground of prophesie , or ministry , was the revelation of the spirit , in those ancient assemblies , as may be read cor. . , , , . for all might prophecy , that is , preach as the spirit of god moved upon their spirit , and gave them utterance , be it to reproof , instruction , or consolation : now study , collection and memory . in those days they preach'd their own experience of die work of god upon their hearts , but most now preach of the experiences of others , recorded in scriptures , but according to their own and others . humane apprehensions . to be brief , we ground our conviction , conversion , ministry , prayer , and praise upon the light and spirit of our lord jesus christ , as the powerful and effectual spring of our religious performances , and that alone which prepares the soul , and enables it to perform those respective services and duties in a manner acceptable to god. and that ministry and worship which stands not in the spirit , and is not performed in the preparation and inspiration thereof , but according to the compilings , traditions and precepts of men , we cannot allow to be primitive and evangelical , and consequently cannot join in them . and we are satisfied that it is the good pleasure of god , that all who profess the name of his dear , and only begotten , and well-beloved son , should acquaint themselves with the spirit of his son in their own hearts , in its reproof instruction , conviction , and consolation , that they may become spiritually minded , such as mind spiritual things more than earthly ones ; and that daily sow to the spirit ; that is , bring forth the fruits of the spirit , and become the children of god , who are led by the spirit of god. now the fruit of the spirit is love , joy , peace , long-suffering , gentleness , goodness , faith , meekness , temperance : against such there is no law. and they that are christ's have crucified the flesh , with the affections and lusts thereof . but the works of the flesh are manifest which are these , adultery , fornication , uncleanness , lasciviousness , idolatry , witchcraft , hatred , variance , emulations , wrath , strife , seditions , heresies , envyings , murder , drunkenness , revilings and such like : of which i told you before , as also in time past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god , rom. . . . gal. . . to . chap. . . . and under these marks , and directions all people may examine themselves , and know their birth , family and inheritance , whether they are the off-spring of god , and true christians , or children of the evil one : those that are born of the spirit , for whom is reserved an inheritance with the saints in light , or the seed of evil doers , for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever . and truly it seems just with god , that those who love darkness better than light in this world , should have their fill of it in the next ; from which , god almighty redeem thee , reader , that thou mayst walk in his blessed light , as he is in the light , then thou wilt have fellowship with the children of light , and the blood of jesus christ ( the great atonement ) shall cleanse the from all sin , john . , , . yea , from the filthiness both of flesh and spirit ; and being sanctified throughout in body and spirit ; thou mayst live to serve god in the newness of his holy spirit , rom. . . and come to be made a new man ; that is an other man. from a proud , an humble man ; from a passionate , a patient man ; from a rough , a meek man ; and of a cruel , covetous , unjust , lascivious , intemperate , vain and ungodly man ; thou becomest a merciful , liberal , just , chast , sober and godly man : and where this change , this new birth , or new creature is not known , sacrifices avail nothing , religion is but formality and the peace of god will never be their recompence of reward . but they that walk after this blessed unerring rule of the new creature , peace be on them , and mercy , and upon the israel of god , gal. . , . who are the circumcision made without hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of christ , col. . . even that of the heart , in the spirit , whole praise is not of men but of god , rom. . . and who therefore worship god in the spirit , and have no confidence in the flesh , phil. . . that is , in fleshly ordinances , or the observation of figures and signs compounded of outward elements , which represent heavenly things : wherefore the apostle exhorted and commanded , col. . , . let no man judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holy day &c. which are shadows of things to come , but the body is of christ ; that is , christ is the substance of all outward representations , and they that have christ have the end of all those things : whom reader we labour and pray , may be better known , received and obeyed by the professors of his holy name and religion . that as he is given of god to be our priest , prophet and king , we may all know feel and enjoy him such in our selves , and then the kingdom of god will be come in us , and his will done in our earth as it is in heaven : which god grant , i most humbly beseech him . for the conclusion of the bishop's paper , it is either repitition , or reflection ; the one needs no answer , and the other wants a defence . however , i will not have it said that i either wave or suppress it , and therefore without any reflection i will consider his : which should have no weight with my reader but against him . he says in his paragraph , he pities us , thinking many of us harmless and well-meaning , but under the power of strong delusions . and in his paragraph he gives us his sence of the cause thereof , viz. that we make the light within , a rule of faith and practice , co-ordinate , if not superiour and antecedent to the holy scripture . to prove which to be our sentiment , he cites these words out of our gospel-truths , where speaking of the holy spirit , and the scriptures , we say , they are the double and agreeing record of true religion . now if the light and spirit agree with the scripture , there is no fear of contradicting the scripture , and so we can have nothing to answer for on account of that expression , for what agrees with the scripture , establishes it , instead of slighting or superceeding the authority of it . and though we used no such words as co-ordinate , much less superiour and antecedent , which is the bishop's gloss to render our most true and in-offensive expression suspected , and make way to fasten his supposed strong delusions upon us ; i will be very frank with him in this matter , that we believe the scripture to be the declaration of the mind of the holy ghost , and therefore not superiour to the holy ghost , but credited , confirmed , and expounded by the holy ghost ; so that without the illumination of it , the scripture cannot be understood by them that read it. the grammatical and critical sense of the words and allusions therein may be understood , but the inside and spiritual signification of them , is a riddle to those that are not spiritually instructed therein , tho' they were never such grammarians or linguists . again christ says , he that loves the light brings his deeds to the light , to see if they are wrought in god , john . . which was before the new testament scripture was in being ; and this makes it both rule and judge of the life and deeds of men. what says the bishop to this ? also john , , chapters , christ promises the spirit to lead them , his people , into all truth , and this was not the scripture , but something at least co-ordinate , if not superiour and antecedent to the scripture , which is more than we said before . also the apostle paul tells the romans , ch. . that as many as are led by the spirit of god , they are the sons of god ; then the spirit is to lead believers , or they cannot be the children of god. and that which leads , rules , and that which rules is a rule to them that follow it . and the same apostle referr'd the galathians , chap. . , . to the rule of the new creature to walk by , and that must be the spirit which begets the new creature , viz. christ formed in them , of whom he tells them , chap. . . he travelled in birth again . and the beloved disciple expresly says to the christians in his first epistle , chap. . . that they had an unction from the holy one , and they knew all things / that is , all things they had to believe , know and practice . and verse . he adds , but the anointing which ye have received abideth in you , and ye need not that any man teach you , but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things , and is truth . if the bishop will break through all these scriptures to undervalue the light and spirit of christ ( for no other light or spirit do we assert , recommend people to , or contend for ) that he might render us guilty of strong delusions , i cannot help it , but must be truly sorry for him . but i beseech him to have a care that he does not , like the jews of old , undervalue , and indeed blaspheme against the holy light and spirit of god , and by miscalling the fruits and effects of its power , strong delusions and transformations of satan : for god will not hold such guiltless in his great and terrible day of judgment . and after all , the best and first reformers and martyrs , as well as fathers , concur in our assertion and testimony . as zuinglius , luther , melanchton , calvin , beza , bucer , peter martyr , and erasmus too . also our own excellent martyrs , viz. lambert , rogers , philpot , bradford , hooper , woodman , &c. that the double and agreeing testimony of the spirit of god within , and the scripture of truth without , is the rule and judge of faith , doctrine and practice ; yea that the spirit is given to believers to be the rule and judge by which they are to understand the true sense and meaning of the scriptures . now let the reader judge who gives the truest honour to the scripture , the bishop , or the people called quakers ? they say the scriptures have a double record , that is , the evidence of the spirit of truth in the hearts of believers , as well as their own : or the bishop , who by his way of treating us and our principle , will allow us no other evidence of their truth , but themselves . for to say the evidence of the spirit of god , with that of the scripture , make a double and agreeing testimony is with him to undervalue the scripture , and the ground , in his apprehension , of our strong delusions . it must be my turn now to pity the bishop , and truly i do it with all my heart , to see him strain so sound , as well as inoffensive an expression , as that which he makes the reason of our delusion , that he might have an occasion to lessen our credit with the professors of christianity , and especially protestants . can it dishonour the scripture to deny the evidence of the principal and author of the scripture , to back the authority of the scripture ? or doth not he rather lessen the authority of scripture , that will not allow us another evidence of the truth of scripture than its own , for fear of co-ordinacy , which was not so much as once intended to be insinuated by us , nor do the words import any such thing ; yet it had been no strong , nor any delusion at all to give the holy ghost the preference . but i shall keep to the terms of the paper , whatever the bishop is pleased to do ; knowing that whoever concludes an argument in terms not in the question , nor plainly deduceable from the premises , is not a fair dealer in controversie : in which the bishop , if he pleases , may reasonably enough think himself more than once concerned . blessed be god we have known the power and efficiency of this holy light and spirit of christ in our selves , and being in good measures witnesses thereof , we do not only speak by report , but by experience . we had the scriptures in the days of our ignorance and worldly-mindedness , but disregarding the reproofs and instruction of the light of jesus in our hearts , we never could come to know the power of those truths the scripture declares of . but when it pleased god , in the riches of his love , to cause his blessed light , that had shined in darkness , and the darkness comprehended it not , to shine out of darkness , and gives us the knowledge of himself in the face ( or through the manifestation ) of his son jesus christ , we saw and bewailed our selves , and by an unfeigned sorrow and repentance , returned as penitent prodigals towards our fathers house ; and in this turn , we were brought to die daily to that love and satisfaction we once had in the glory , pleasures , honours , friendships and diversions of the world , which now became burdensome , more than ever they were pleasing to us . hence it was , and from no sinister ends , or self-righteous conceits , that we became an altered and a distinguished people , in our behaviour , garb and conversation : more retired , watchful , silent and plain , than formerly , equally avoiding luxury and avarice . i say , it was the work of god's spirit upon our hearts , who by his light gave us to see the just difference of things , and to distinguish between that which pleased him , and that which pleased him not . and this holy pattern he gave us in the light of his beloved son , which we design to follow , as did the holy ancients ; and is a full answer to the bishop's unfriendly queries upon our distinguishing behaviour , in his th and th paragraph , as if it were not out of fear towards god , or upon a conscientious bottom , but to serve a worldly turn ? for he asks us is it not your main aim , end and study , by pretended mortifications , to make your selves a party considerable ? again , are not to this purpose your different garb , speech , looks and gestures , and to make your selves remarkable , rather than out of a sense of duty , or conscience of obligation ? which , as it is the worst construction that the most irreligious and prophane could make upon our behaviour , so i beseech god to forgive the bishop , and make him sensible how little such treatment of strict & sober living advances the common cause of religion , and how much it indulges those that know no reins or check to their excesses in his own church . but to go no farther than the bishop and his clergy , pray who distinguish themselves more by their garb from other people then they ? tho' i cannot say as much of their behaviour . so indeed did the chemerims or black coats of old , and those that wore long robes in our saviours time , but as i take it , they went not without his censure , while i think the bishop will find none in scripture against our plainness . but the bishops pontifical robes , do in my opinion look much more like singularity and a sight than ours ; for our garb is like other mens , only freed of their superfluity . in short i wish him a better understanding of the true grounds of our stricter conduct , and where and who they are that make a trade of religion ; that if he has any shot left against mercinary religionists , he may not miss the mark next time , but may make it his main aim , end and study , to expose hirelings and hypocrites in their proper colours : and some are of opinion he need not go far to find too many of them . it is strange the bishop should be so unsensible of the advantage he gives me by his queries , and what a wide door he opens to a severe retaliation ; but my desire to be modest , and to be silent upon such advantages , is , i think , to be abundantly so . howbeit , i must take notice of one expression , for it may too seriously affect us not to be observed to him . when he asks , if it be not our main end and study , by pretended mortifications , to make our selves a party considerable ? he adds , and such to which , for reasons of state / peculiar priviledges must be indulged . if this were not more than mockery , i should wave my notice ; but calling the meaning of the government in question about the liberty of conscience we enjoy , he must forgive me if i bestow a few remarks upon that expression . it seems then our liberty flows not from the inclination of the government to liberty , less from compassion , and least of all from justice and a christian principle . which motives carry with them a prospect of the continuance of liberty , if not for liberties sake . but the bishop believes no such thing , and if he would not have us of his mind , he did weakly to tell us so . well then , we are all of us to take his advertisement , that our liberty hangs but by slender threads , and a reason of state , and not of nature , right or christianity ; which certainly is not to bespeak this considerable party to the advantage of the government : and for which i think the bishop a very moderate states-man , and the government as little beholding to his politicks as we are to his charity . however , we will have a better opinion of our superiors regards to liberty , and conclude that their inclination equals their discretion , and that their judgment as well as prudence is of that side . let the bishop say what he pleases . and tho' he deserves it not at my hands , i could almost perswade my self to think that he does not begrudge us , and means not so loosly as he writes . but be it as it will , that god that has upheld us by hit free spirit to this day , through many and great afflictions , we firmly believe will suffer nothing to attend us , that shall not in the conclusion work for his glory and our good , if we continue stedfast to the end , in the blessed way of righteousness , wherein he has so often and signally owned and preserved us ; notwithstanding the violence of open enemies , and the treacherous and restless endeavours of false friends . his th paragraph multiplies reflection , as before observed , and repeats what i have already largely answered ; particularly that we own the christian faith , which he makes us to wave , suppress , or at least not to confess ; and have express'd it even in the paper , he has faulted so much of shortness , and that more fully , in all points , than in the creed commonly called the athenasian ; except that about the trinity , which seems to me less plain by that copious way taken to explain it. he also says , we reject all outward , positive parts of worship , which we deny : for we own and use prayer , preaching and praising in the spirit , without which they cannot be owned or joined with ; for they cannot be so performed to edification by a true christian worshipper ; since god , who is a spirit , will be worshipped in spirit , and in truth , which christ's spirit must enable us to perform . and such worshippers only god the father seeks to worship him : implying he regards not other worshippers . but especially , the bishop says , we reject baptism and the supper . we say we do not reject but disuse the signs , because we felt the invisible graces in our souls they were signs and shadows of ; and therefore not in disrespect to the signs , but in reverence to the divine substance they shew forth , we discontinue their use among us . they obtain'd place in the infancy and twi-light of the church ; in her more weak and ceremonious time , directing , as i may say , that inter-regnum between the law and gospel , before the dispensation of the holy ghost had fully obtained place and preheminence in the church . but of this i have been already very particular . he grows warm in his th paragraph and episcopal ; for he says , in a word , i again require you , as you will answer all your secret arts and pretensions at christ's tribunal , that you either embrace and profess the entire christian truth , in the points wherein i have shewn you to be defective ; and that you receive the christian seals or badges , baptism and the lord's supper ; or else that you desist to lay claim to the name of christians . but first i must return the bishop his secret arts and pretensions , in all which he is greviously mistaken . for either i do not understand his meaning , or i abhor it . next , be it known to him , we wave not , we suppress not , but heartily embrace and profess before the whole world , all points of christian doctrine , according to the mind of the holy ghost , as i have amply signified before upon this subject . and where the bishop takes leave of the text , he must excuse me if i leave him to keep company with it . we did not entitle our paper all gospel-truths ; but gospel-truths , which extended so far as we were tax'd with error about those truths : and yet he must have but a little charity that will not allow a believer and follower of those truths to be a christian . nor indeed has the bishop given us the articles of faith he says we wave or suppress , or told us his own , or that one churches faith he would have us receive , as i have complained already . but that the bishop should forbid us so much as to lay claim to the name of christians , unless we will practice what he calls the seals or badges of christianity ( which divers churches in christendom think he misuses ) is very uncharitable and dogmatical . but besides what i have said at large in our excuse and defence in that matter , he produces not one scripture that calls them either seals or badges . but yet there are other things that are so represented by our blessed saviour and his apostles , which he takes no notice of . as mat. . . where , they that will he reputed christ's disciples must take up his cross and follow him . christ's cross is a christians badge and seal of discipleship . again , john . . he said to his disciples , by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye love one another . likewise mat. . , , . the distinguishing character of the last day is not water baptism and the outward supper , but love , mercy and compassion ; bowels and charity ; not being ashamed or afraid of owning and helping the lord's servants in their afflictions , viz. i was an hungry and ye gave me meat : i was thirsty and ye gave me drink : i was a stranger and ye took me in : naked and ye cloathed me : i was sick and ye visited me : i was in prison and ye came unto me. this is the christian badge that will be recognized by our lord jesus christ at the last day : we have his own word for it. in all which , he is so far from mentioning either of the other badges that luke . he brings in the unhappy , that are on his left hand , using this argument to engage him to receive them into blessedness , viz. we have eaten and drank in thy presence , and thou hast taught in our streets . a plain instance they had the use of such ordinances as the bishop reputes badges of christianity ; but it is as plain that such pleas would not do : for behold the lord jesus says unto them in the parable , i know you not , depart from me ye workers of iniquity ! i recommend the perusal of the following verses to my reader , which confirm my sense of the text : for he spoke to an outside people that counted themselves the people of god , and were observers of meats and drinks , and divers washings : and that which was doctrine and caution then , is doctrine and caution now ; for truth holds the same to the end. i might add , holiness for a characteristick , without which no man shall ever see the lord : and that neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision , but a new creature , gal. . also the fruits of the spirit , chap. . among which there is not one word about water - baptism or the outward supper , with many more passages that are close and cogent . his th and last paragraph tells us , he will not judge us , and yet his whole paper is but one continued judgment of us . but , from god , as he says , and as his minister he bids us judge our selves . first , we thank god we are before-hand with the bishop , having judged our selves , and that by the judgment of god upon us , and so have right to judge others according to that judgment . secondly , we have no proof that the bishop speaks from god to us : nor can i tell how he should , that does not acknowledge the inspeaking word of god in the soul. thirdly , for his being god's minister , he has not shewn us his commission yet , and i fear it will not be from heaven when ever he does . but if my reader will take the pains of perusing this very paragraph , he will not only see a judging spirit , but that the bishop holds out abusing of us to the last , rendring us as bad as bad can be , viz. that we subvert the faith once delivered to the saints , and equal our conceits to the divine oracles , using and disusing what parts of god's instituted worship we please ; adding , i will not interpose your making gain your godliness . but as i have already taken ample notice of this charge , so i shall say no more of his irreligious slant at our sincerity than this , that i cannot pretend to tell the bishop what tribe of men in christendom it is that have long made gain their godliness , and the pretence of it their worldly inheritance ; since he has been so much more sensibly instructed in this affair than my self : but one thing i am sure of , that if gain and not godliness was our motive to be the people we are , we mightily mistook our way when we left the bishops : for afflictions , spoiles , prisons , banishments , yea , and death it self have attended us since god was pleased to manifest his truth to us : and if under all those calamitys that have followed us since we were a people , for the sake of our unfashionable profession , the bishop or any else is so unnatural , as to envy us the blessing of god upon our honest industry , and to render that which is an effect of god's goodness , the reason and end of our religion , god forgive them . i could enlarge upon this topick , but time would fail , and the discourse swell beyond bounds , as indeed it hath already beyond my expectation : for which i should excuse my self to my reader , but that it was not simply from the regard i had to the bishop's sheet , since that could not have deserved this notice from me , but might have been answered as concisely as that was written , had i only considered his undertaking and treatment , and not my readers satisfaction , in the better knowledge of our so much misrepresented perswasion : especially in a nation , where of late i had occasion so generally to travel , and the bishop's paper hath been i suppose as generally disperst . i owe it therefore to my profession , to my self , and to the country , to vindicate the one , and to express my christian regard and acknowledgment to the other ; having received a more than common civility from the inhabitants in general : to whom i wish , as to my own soul , the saving knowledge of the truth , as it is in jesus : that christians indeed and at heart they may be , to the glory of god their creator , and the eternal salvatiou of their souls , through jesus christ , the alone redeemer , and to whom with the father , by the holy ghost , be all honour and glory , thanksgiving and praise , world without end. finis . books printed and sold by t. sowle , next door to the meeting-house , in white-hart-court , in gracious-street . and at the bible in leaden-hall-street , near the market , . samuel fisher's works , in folio . the works of the long , mournful , and sorrowful distressed isaac pennington's , in folio . william bayly's works , quarto . the works of that memorable and ancient servant of christ , stephen crisp ; containing also a journal of his life , giving an account of his convincement , travels , labours , and sufferings in , and for the truth . price bound s. a collection of the several writings and faithful testimonies of that suffering servant of god , and patient follower of the lamb , humphry smith . price bound s. . d. a collection of certain epistles and testimonies of divine consolation , experience , and doctrine : written by that faithful , patient and long-suffering servant of christ , william bennit . price bound s. d. the memory of the righteous revived , being a brief collection of the books and written epistles of john camm and john audland : together with several testimonies relating to those two faithful labourers . price bound s. truth vindicated , by the faithful testimony and writings of the innocent servant and handmaid of the lord , elisabeth bathurst , deceased . price bound s. baptism and the lord's supper , substantially asserted ; being an apology in behalf of the people called quakers , concerning those two heads . by robert barclay . price bound s. a catechism and confession of faith. by r. barclay . price bound d. no cross , no crown . a discourse shewing the nature and discipline of the holy cross of christ . by w. penn. in two parts . the fifth edition . price s. an address to protestants of all perswasions ; more especially the magistracy and clergy , for the promotion of virtue and charity . in two parts . by w. penn , a protestant . the second edition , corrected and enlarged . price bound s. d. a few words to the king and both houses of parliament vvorthy their consideration in a weighty concern; to wit, the effect of the execution of the late act, made against meetings and conventicles, so called; through which very many of the innocent people of god have, and do deeply suffer. milner, richard, fl. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing m estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a few words to the king and both houses of parliament vvorthy their consideration in a weighty concern; to wit, the effect of the execution of the late act, made against meetings and conventicles, so called; through which very many of the innocent people of god have, and do deeply suffer. milner, richard, fl. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n.], [london : printed in the year, . signed at end: rich. milner. place of publication from wing. in response to the conventicle act. reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng conventicle act -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- law and legislation -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a few words to the king and both houses of parliament , vvorthy their consideration in a weighty concern ; to wit , the effect of the execution of the late act , made against meetings and conventicles , so called ; through which very many of the innocent people of god have , and do deeply suffer . and this is very certain and observable ( as one deeply concerned in suffering by the aforesaid act , my mind became exercised in a consideration of the effects thereof ) that it saddens the hearts of many , yea indeed the generality of all people , to see those they know to be honest neighbours , and good common-wealths people in their countrey , to have their known truly gotten goods and estates driven away and spoyled , and that for nothing but the tenderness of their consciences towards god , and for worshipping him in spiri● and truth ; it being so much contrary to the principle of justice in all people , even those that have but morality and civility in any measure concludes is to be , and indeed cryes it out to be a sad thing ; that men and ●eople the● live peaceably and harmlesly amongst their neighbours , and under the government , should be so pilledged and rob●●● their estates , even to the impoverishing many , both widdows and fatherless ; that how can you think 〈◊〉 to be a wo●k for god , or any thing like him or his service ? or how can you think it to be a likely way to convince or bring people out of errors or heresie● , if you conclude us to be such ? or how can it be like to bring people from a false church , if so , to a true ? since it is so unagreeable to the spirits of all civil people , and that especially to the equal principle of god in all . and also it is observable , that the execution of it , is very burthensome and troublesome to the executioners ; as we see by experience , the constables and other officers all up and down the countrey cry out , what a trouble it is to them , to make such havack of their neighbours goods , so that as several of them say , they can neither eat nor sleep for trouble to drive their neighbours horses and cattle by droves to the markets and fairs , there to stand with them , and be as gasing stocks to the people ; and then the people gather into companies , and talk together and shake their heads , for very trouble to see such cruelty and barbarous work in so peaceable a nation . and it is also observable , that many the informers and putters on in this work are commonly of the most vilest , and wickedest , beggarly , profainest sort of all people , such as have either wasted their own estates , or such as are slothful , idle , vagrant fellows , that never had estates , nor will not work ; but having this advantage given them , and that by authority , seek and chuse rather to live upon the ruines of other me●s estates . oh! will you consider , was ever the like advantage given to the very 〈◊〉 of a nation ; to vaunt themselves as they do , not only over the serious , engenious improving part of the nation ; but also over the magistrates , if they do not readily execute the wills of these informers : such is their impudence they being backed with authority , as they perceive themselves to be by the late act ; oh! how can you think that a government , or a true church , or a nation can any way be advanced by such unequal works and wretched in s ; truments , as have neither regard to god nor good men , nor good government , but to drive on their own wicked design , to mine honest mens estates : and so , if the diligent and laborious people must be oppressed , that they cannot improve , and the idle and slothful sort will not improve , but wast and destroy the work of the diligent , the world will become like a wilderness . written by one called a quaker , who is a deep sufferer by the late act against meetings in the county of chester , rich. milner . this th day of the d . month called april , . i stand convicted at this present , by geoffery shakerley governour of chester-castle , in the sum of fourscore and six pound five shillings , for my self and my wife , by vertue of the late act against meetings : besides , i had taken from me twelve kine three or four years since month forty pound , for a fine of twenty pound , by vertue of the same act. there being ten or twelve widdows , and fatherless families , who have not left some them a skillet to boyl their children milk in ; most of them have no estates , but what they pay yearly for , r. m printed in the year , . a relation of a quaker, that to the shame of his profession, attempted to bugger a mare near colchester. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing r thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) a relation of a quaker, that to the shame of his profession, attempted to bugger a mare near colchester. denham, john, sir, - , attributed name. sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] satirical verse, possibly by sir john denham - "all in the land of essex". imprint from wing. annotation on thomason copy: "may ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng quakers -- humor -- early works to . bestiality -- humor -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no a relation of a quaker, that to the shame of his profession, attempted to bugger a mare near colchester. [denham, john, sir] a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a relation of a quaker , that to the shame of his profession , attempted to bugger a mare near colchester . all in the land of essex near colchester the zealous , on the side of a bank , was play'd such a prank , as would make a stone-horse jealous . help woodcock , fox , and nailor . for brother green 's a stalion , now alas what hope , of converting the pope , when a quaker turns italian . unto our whole profession , a scandal t will be counted , when 't is talk't with difdain , amongst the profane , how brother green was mounted . and in the good time of christmas , which though the saints have damn'd all , yet when did they hear of a damn'd cavalier ere play'd such a christmas gamball . had thy flesh , o green , been pamper'd with any cates unhallow'd , hadst thou sweetned thy gumbs with pottage of plumbs or profane minc'd pie hadst swallow'd . roll'd up in wanton swines flesh , the fiend might have crept into thee , then fulnesse of gut might have made thee rut and the devil so have rid through thee . but alas , he had been feasted with a spirituall collation by our frugall mayer , who can dine with a prayer and sup with an exhortation . t was meer impulse of spirit , though he us'd the weapon carnal , filly foal quoth he my bride thou shalt be : now how this is lawfull , learn all . for if no respect of persons be due mongst the sons of adam in a large extent then may it be meant that a mare 's as good as a madam . then without more ceremony , nor bonnet vail'd , nor kist her , he took her by force for better for worse and he us'd her like a sister . now when in such a saddle a saint will needs be riding , though i dare not say 't is a falling away may there not be some backsliding . no surely quoth iames nailor t was but an insurrection of the carnall part , for a quaker in heart can never lose perfection . for so our * masters teach us the intent being well directed ; though the devil trapan the adamicall man , the saint stands uninfected . but yet a pagan jury still judges what 's intended , then say what we can brother green's outward man i fear will be suspended . and our adopted sister will find no better quarter , but when him we inroule for a saint ; filly foal shall passe at least for a martyr . now rome that spirituall sodom no longer is thy debter , o colchester now who 's sodom , but thou , even according to the letter . help woodcock , fox and nailor for brother green 's a stallion , now alas what hope of converting the pope when a quaker turns italian . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- * hist. of jesuitism . truth & innocency triumphing over falshood [and] envy, or jasper batt's vindication against william roger's un-christian [sic] and false insinuations, in his book mis-called the christian quaker, &c. batt, jasper, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) truth & innocency triumphing over falshood [and] envy, or jasper batt's vindication against william roger's un-christian [sic] and false insinuations, in his book mis-called the christian quaker, &c. batt, jasper, d. . p. printed for john bringhurst, printer and stationer, at the sign of the book in grace-church-street, [london : ] caption title. imprint from colophon. a reply to: rogers, william. the christian quaker. reproduction of the original in the friends' house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng rogers, william, d. ca. . -- christian quaker distinguished from the apostate & innovator. society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion truth & innocency triumphing over falshood & envy , or , jasper batts's vindication against william roger's un-christian and false insinuations , in his book mis-called , the christian quaker , &c. i could the better have sate down in silence under the unchristian , and slanderous insinuations in that book cast out against me , especially when i consider so many of the lords antient and faithful servants , by this adversary , are made my companions herein : and also the darkness , envy and confusion , in the said book manifested ; having also the evidence of the lords spirit for my own innocency . but some necessity is upon me to write , and give forth a few lines in answer thereunto , and confutation thereof ; and so much the rather , because it s not so much my reputation , as truth it self , that this adversary strikes at ; and therefore also willing to be a companion with my brethren , in a testimony against this wicked undertaking . and this is my testimony in general ; that it is in its self a work of darkness , and from the accuser of the brethren , which must be cast down for ever : and such is the blackness and foulness thereof , that as yet , ( though doubtless several were concerned in their purses , to assist the bringing forth thereof ) i have not heard of one particular person that owns the same : and am not without hope , that several of those so concerned , may in time see their folly , and repent thereof , as many others have done , who were beguiled by the same spirit . and now , as to my own particular , wherein truth is concerned with me ; for this is that which is chiefly in my eye , to answer to in this book part . pages , . he thus expresses himselfe doubtless should any man accuse jasper batt ( one of those that judged john story and john wilkinson without hearing them speak for themselves ) that he went about preaching , thereby occasioning somtimes twenty pound fines , somtimes forty pound fines , to be imposed on the hearers , and incourage them to be valiant for truth , and to offer up all ( whilst his estate was well secured out of the persecutors reach , or at least nothing to be found of his own to pay such his fines ) he would think john story very ill imployed , to have a hand in giving forth a publick testimony against him , to be read in all the monethly and quarterly meetings in england , before he had either spoken or written to him to know what he could say for himself , that he might have opportunity to hush it up by writing a paper of condemnation , if so be he were guilty . [ he farther saith ] we cannot believe that jasper batt hath not done as bad as this in signing with the sixty six at e. hooks ' s chamber ; and if the case stated in his name be not groundless , 't is then notorously wicked . thus plainly insinuating , as if i had designed first , to secure my own estate , and then exhort others to give up all for truth , and occasioned such to be fined as abovesaid . to which i answer , this insinuation is un-christian , being against the rule that christ gives , in case a brother offends which is ; tell him his fault between thee and him , &c. now this i affirm , that w. r. nor any other on his behalf , never did in the least question me , or express to me any dissatisfaction concerning me , touching what he thus insinuates ; which according to christs rule he ought to have done : and therefore his thus proceeding is un-christian . and this i farther testify in the lords presence , ( who knows that i lye not ) that i never disposed of , or secured any part of my estate , to avoyd the loss thereof , for truths testimony ; but have managed the same according to the vnderstanding the lord hath given me for its service . for when i was first convinc'd of truth , i soon received it in the love thereof , and gave up my self and all i had to be serviceable therein ; and being called by the lord to spend near my whole time in its service , the lord in time so disposed of my condition , that i was necessitated , either to put off the management of the estate which the lord had given me , or give up my testimony , as then required of me ; that part of my family being removed , that were any way capable to manage the same in my absence , and intently waiting on the lord for his council , and advise with faithful friends : i was fully satisfied ( and so am to this day ) that my place was to keep my publick testimony , and let my estate ; which i did accordingly , disposing of part thereof to my children , as becomes a father to provide for his family , and this was done ( the lord knows ) that i might be the more at liberty in the lords service ; and as paul advised timothy , tim . . he that goes a warfare , intangles not himself with the things of this life , that he may please him who hath chosen him to be his souldier . and farther , that this ordering of my affairs was not to avoyd sufferings on the act against conventicles , is the more evident , because it was done a considerable time before that act was made . and this also i farther testify , that it hath been my care and diligence , since the lord called me into his service , as on the one hand , not to run when he sent me not ; so also , not to neglect the duty he required of me : and this is my great comfort to this day , whatever this adversary , or any other judges of me , i have walk't in the simplicity of my heart before the lord , and have , and do enjoy the testimony of his love , and assistance of his presence , which is a large reward unto me ; glory to his name for ever . and so this his insinuation is very false and envious . w. r. speaks of giving out a paper of condemnation , for occasioning others to be fined for my preaching , and my estate secured , and not to be found , as he insinuates , &c. i answer , what would he have me condemn ? is it the securing my estate from suffering ? ( i never did it ) i am not guilty herein , therefore no condemnation belongs to me for that : or would he have me condemn my appearance publickly , with a testimony for god , when the lord requires , and moves ? and draw into holes , corners , and under hedges , as some of our opposers have done . his plainly appears to be of that spirit that would lay waste all our meetings , and extinguish the doctrine and life of christanity , that would justify the fearful and wicked , and condemn the righteous , which is an abomination to the lord : what darkness and confusion doth this spirit run into ! and whereas w. r. insinuates , my fine to be laid upon others . if i am fined , or any other , for speaking in the name of the lord , and others suffer on that account , it s well for me to answer the lords requirings in speaking , and for others also to frequent our meetings ; and so that suffering being for well doing , shall not be without a reward from the lord : for happy are ye when ye suffer for righteousness sake ; and that were evil to disobey the lords requirings , either in frequenting , or speaking in meetings , and is for condemnation by the truth , what ever w. r's judgment is of it . that j. story and j. w. were judged without a hearing , is utterly false ; they having been heard with witnesses face to face , at a meeting where were present several of the sixty six mentioned : of which meeting , and proceedings , w. r. hath given a large testimony of the lords peace amongst them , and their great travel of love and life for j. s. and j. w. an account whereof may be seen in bristol-friends answer to w. r's book : at which meeting , after hearing of all parties , they were judged to have entertained a wrong spirit ; and for several other offences against the church of christ , as by a narrative thereof may appear . and from a meeting in london , . they were by many antient and faithful brethren , advised , and warned in the lords name ( as he then required ) not to offer their gift , nor meddle in the publick affairs of the church , until satisfaction was given to the church so offended : which advice and warning was wholly rejected by them . and then at the meeting at london , . in unity with the former judgment given after hearing of witnesses face to face , and their rejecting the advice and warning ( aforesaid ) given them the year before , a testimony was given against them by more than sixty six : so as to the things for which they were judged , and a testimony given against them , they were fully heard before judgment ; and so the charge is false . and now all this truly weighed , the case stated in my name is groundless , and so not notoriously wicked in me : but then , whether it be not notorious wickedness in w. r. thus to insinuate , and publish in print against me while innocent , let gods witness in all judge : for i never secured my estate from suffering for truths testimony , nor out of the persecutors reach : for i have , and still had an estate real and personal , held in my own name , and not made in trust to any other . and if it be wickedness so to secure an estate in trust , when no consideration , but to save from suffering for truths testimony , w. r. then ought to look nearer home before he thus range abroad ; but some will be medling while they count themselves wise . and so the wickedness , falshood , envy , and confusion , rests on w. r's . own head , for which in due time , the lord will reckon with him . and whereas w. r. speaks of me and my three companions , that speak of some in a paper of ours , that despise government , and speak evil of dignities , and he accounts not us to be such . to which i answer , that many of the lords little ones , and faithful servants , have been despised , and spoken evil of by several that are joyned to that spirit in which this our adversary appears to be ; but as far as i have heard or understood , he have out-stript them all , as this his work of darkness doth manifest . now christ jesus saith of his disciples , and little ones , he that despiseth you , despiseth me ; and he that despiseth me , despiseth him that sent me . and this is a dignity rightly claimed by the lords faithful servants to be his disciples , and little ones : then if they that reproach and despise them , despiseth god and christ , such despiseth dignities , and speaks evil of them . many other contemptible , scornfull , deriding , and reproachful expressions against me , and many others of the lords servants , he hath uttered in his said book : all which i trample under foot , knowing my own innocency , and leave him to the judgement of god for the same : but cannot yet well let pass without some notice taken , how much he pretends a conscentious concern for truth , to print this his book : and i well remember how rabshaketh that blasphemous general , could pretend as high for his war against the lords people ; who saith , and am i now come up without the lord against this land ; the lord said unto me , go up against this land and destroy it , isa . . . and this also i cannot well omit without notice , what he saith , part . pag. . viz. a hoping , that for the future , jasper batt will learn more modesty , than to account himself a governour , &c. and i may say it would be well , if w. r. would learn so much modesty as to forbear to insinuate such falsehood ; for when , or where , did i ever account my self a governour : but as the lord hath given me a testimony , against deceipt , and wickedness , and for his everlasting truth , i hope he will preserve me faithful therein to the end . herein i may be scorned , and reproach't for the same by w. r. or any other of truths adversaries : and in the sence of the lords power and presence with me , shall rejoyce ; and triumph over it all ; well knowing that the truth in it's simplicity must reign over all at last . and this is that which is before me at present , to write in vindication of truth , and my own reputation ; well knowing other of the lords servants are concerned more largely to answer , and testifie against w. r's work of darkness and confusion in that book manifested ; being well satisfied , that i am counted worthy to be a companion with them ; and so commit my self and cause to the lord , and his witness in all to judge : in whose peace and love i rest , a servant of jesus christ . j. b. some of william rogers his scornful bitter words against iasper batt , and his three companions , &c. with some observations upon them . william rogers in his book ( falsly ) entituled the christian quaker , &c. part . p. . hath these words . all these ( viz ) j. batt and his three companions , and the rest of the sixty six subscribers , are by their paper manifest , to have run in the very way of cain by persecuting the brethren , and have appeared as raging waves of the sea , foaming out their own shame by their hard speeches , which are the very marks and fruits of those who despise government according to the scriptures , which j. batt and his brethren hath directed us to peruse . observe , william rogers complains much against judging ; but who amongst us equalls him therein ? let his words above cited , as also what follows , with abundance more of like nature in his great confused book , speak for him , or against him , in the understandings and consciences of all judicious and impartial readers . can he prove that j. batt , or his three companions ( and the rest he here mentions ) have ever charged j. s. and j. w. and the wiltshire friends , or the bristol friends , who write and speak severely against them , to have run in the very way of cain . how doth this his bitter false judgment agree with the scriptures cited by him against judging part , and p. . mat. . . rom. . . let the reader examine , and seriously consider the same . he hath rendred us in the very way of cain ( observe the emphasis ) . the very way of cain is not only envy , but also actual murder . the living god knows , that this is a very uncharitable , false , and wicked judgement , for which the lord will rebuke him . gods faithful witness in our own souls , justifies us from his false and malicious charge . first , what was written concerning j. s. and j. w. ( of which w. r. complaineth ) was not written in any degree of envy against the said persons . secondly , god doth know , that we never endeavoured to murder the said j. s. and j. w. nor any other person concerned in this controversy against us . but cain did not only endeavour to murder , but did actually murder his innocent brother . we being wholly clear , not only of the act , but the very intention of murder , are therefore not in the very way of cain . for we could be very glad to see j. s. and j. w. and the rest concerned with them , condemn that which is evil , and return into unity with friends , who are in the love of god towards them , and in peaceable unity one with another in his spirit . w. r. in his book scoffingly writes against friends concerning excommunication . see part . p. . but hath not he , to the utmost of his power , endeavoured to excommunicate , not only j.b. and his three companions , but all the sixty six mentioned before , without giving them gospel-order ; or at least many of them he hath not dealt with , according as christ commands ( amongst which the faithful ministers struck at by w. r. are sound in doctrine , as well as in life and conversation ) and his apostles direct . therefore his uncharitable dealing towards us , christ and his apostles testimony witnesseth against . if w. r. could make the church of christ believe , that we are in the very way of cain : then , no doubt , they would declare against us as persons with whom they could have no unity , in their christian-faith and religion , and so he would get us denyed by the church of god , the pillar and ground of truth . but they have a true sense and knowledge of us , to be men fearing god , and lovers and practisers of christian vertue , in life and conversation , led thereinto , and preserved therein by the pure spirit of our lord jesus christ , who is captain of our salvation , and bishop of our souls , and true head of the living body , his church , who reigns in , and over every member , who leads us into love one to another , and to live in peace and unity one with another , and preserves therein ; and teaches to love enemies ; to do good to them that despightfully use and persecute . these that are thus taught are far from the very way of cain , which is envy and murther , these envy no man : but hate pride , arrogancy , and every evil way ; such christ doth own . w. r's . envy and bitter words cannot get them excommunicated out of christ's church , though they may be denyed by him , and such as he is . but his words or denyal is of no value with us ; and many others that fear god. again , w. r. saith in page . part . we now are sensible , that the said , j. batt and his three companions ( having assumed the place of judges ) will not think our arguments deducible from the light within sufficient , to evidence their ignorance and weakness , no more than if they were four blind priests , who neglecting the heavenly gift in themselves , may seek a justification of their priestly jurisdiction from the scriptures without . observ . his comparing us with four blind priests , as aforesaid , is both scornful , malicious , and greatly unjust . herein he renders us , st . as blind as the blind priests . dly . as much neglecting the heavenly gift in our selves , as they . dly . as great slighters and contemners of the light of christ within , as they . oh unrighteous judgment , i do deny w. r's aforesaid pretended sense , 't is grosly false , and slanderous . for we are of the apostles faith concerning the light of christ within ; who saith , whatsoever is reproved is made manifest by the light ; and that which doth make manifest , is light. but neither the light of christ within us , nor the scriptures of truth without , nor yet w. r's observations thereupon , hath manifested to us , that to be our ignorance and vveakness , which he in his uncharitable lofty mind calleth so . but suppose we were ignorant and weak , will no softer words serve w. r. against us for this , than to judge us to be in the very way of cain , for weakness and ignorance ? if he could prove both against us , will not prove his charge against us true . for they who are in the very way of cain , are more than weak and ignorant ; they are grosly wicked and prophane , in envy , murder , &c. o william ! thou want'st charity , in this judgment , which is the bond of perfectness , as the apostle said . he also said , if i want charity , i am nothing ; but he had it , and therein was accepted of god : but thou without it wilt be rejected . w. r. it appears in part . p. . that thou art offended at j. batt , and his three companions , for citing the epistles of peter and jude , in their reply to the bristol-paper , and desiring them to be read , and rightly apply'd , &c. it appears as if thy offence were , because they did not inform those to whom they wrote , how to apply the aforesaid scriptures . and it appears , because the said epistles are cited to be read , and rightly applyed ; thou takest occasion to compare i. b. and his three companions , to four blind priests , who neglecting the heavenly gift in themselves , may seek a iustification of their priestly iurisdiction from the scriptures without . the unjustness of this comparison is shewed before . but william , thou hast brought scriptures in defence of what thou writest in thy book against friends , and thou hast not informed them how to apply them right . of which , i conclude , thou hast heard something already , and maist hear more hereafter . some other of thy companions , who write against friends , have brought scriptures to prove what they write ; but have not rightly applyed them , nor informed friends so to do . art thou willing to be judged for not teaching them , as aforesaid , as thou hast judged u● ? namely , to be as blind as priests , &c. why shouldest thou be offended at our citing those wholesome epistles ? dost thou herein shew a right esteem for those holy scriptures ? cannot we cite scriptures , and leave people rightly to apply them , as guided by that holy spirit , that guided the holy men in giving them forth ; but for so doing , be by thee judged to neglect the heavenly gift in our selves , and to be as blind as four blind priests ? it seems to appear in thy book , that thou hast an opinion , that the tree of knowledge is good for food . but it were better for thee to wait upon god in the light of his son , and therein to be obedient to him , that so thou mayst eat of the fruit of the tree of life ; which food would fill thee with charity , without which thou canst not be accepted of god , who is love ( or charity ) as the holy apostle testified . the word dignity expressed in peter and judes epistles , cited by j. batt , and his thrre companions , w. r. doth paraphrase upon , in a scornful manner , against the said friends , and others ; as may be seen in part . pag. . observe , the word dignity signifies honour , as the dictionaries render it . how often doth w. r. in his book , call j. s. and j. w. honourable ? and in his preface to the reader , p. . he calls j. s. and j. w. two antient and honourable labourers in the gospel of christ , whose conversations and doctrines , i have not known or understood to be exceeded in godliness , by any mortal man whatsoever , saith he . † doth he not herein highly honour or dignify them ? why may not god honour or dignify his servants ; who seek not the honour that comes from the earthly mind ; but that which comes , from god only ? god hath said by the mouth of the prophet , * them that honour me , i will honour : and before true honour , goeth humility . * the word government is also paraphrased on by w. r. in the two aforesaid pages in a bitter and scornful manner , against j. batt , and many of the lord's servants . to which i say , on the behalf of christ and his church , that we own no other government in his church , but that which is upon his shoulders ; as god hath promised . he is one in the male , and in the female ; as the holy apostle said ; who is prince of peace , and keeps his subjects in peace , and unity one with another . j. b. london , printed for john bringhurst , printer and stationer , at the sign of the book in grace-church-street . . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e part . page . notes for div a -e cor. . col. . tim. . . tit. . . † but w. r. thus high applauding j. s. and j. w. as not exceeded by any mortal man whatsoever , hath not answered the witness of god in our consciences ; and his narrative , and their paper of condemnation prove the contrary : and hath not w. r. herein applauded j. s. and j. w. somewhat like , as the samaritans did sim. magus ? * much more might be said to this ; and that from the scriptures of truth , as well as inward experience . but this in short at present . * much more might be said to this ; and that from the scriptures of truth , as well as inward experience . but this in short at present . a looking-glass for all those called protestants in these three nations wherein they may see, who are true protestants, and who are degenerated and gone from the testimony and doctrine of the antient protestants. and hereby it is made to appear, that the people, called in derision quakers, are true (yea the truest) protestants, because their testimony agreeth with the testimony of the antient protestants in the most weighty things wherein the lord called them forth in that day. particularly, with the testimony and doctrine of william tindal, who is called a worthy martyr, and principal teacher of the church of england;faithfully collected out of his works. by george keith. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a looking-glass for all those called protestants in these three nations wherein they may see, who are true protestants, and who are degenerated and gone from the testimony and doctrine of the antient protestants. and hereby it is made to appear, that the people, called in derision quakers, are true (yea the truest) protestants, because their testimony agreeth with the testimony of the antient protestants in the most weighty things wherein the lord called them forth in that day. particularly, with the testimony and doctrine of william tindal, who is called a worthy martyr, and principal teacher of the church of england;faithfully collected out of his works. by george keith. keith, george, ?- . tyndale, william, d. . [ ], p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year, . caption title on p. reads: some clear testimonies unto the truth, (as it is owned by the people called in derision quakers collected out of the works and books of william tindall martyr. running title reads: a looking-glass for protestants. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng tyndale, william, d. -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . protestants -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a looking-glass for all those called protestants in these three nations . wherein they may see , who are true protestants , and who are degenerated and gone from the testimony and doctrine of the antient protestants . and hereby it is made to appear , that the people , called in derision quakers , are true ( yea the truest ) protestants , bccause their testimony agreeth with the testimony of the antient protestants in the most weighty things wherein the lord called them forth in that day . particularly , with the testimony and doctrine of william tindal , who is called a worthy martyr , and principal teacher of the church of england ; faithfully collected out of his works . by george keith . london , printed in the year , . the epistle to the impartial readers unto whosoever hands this may come . come all you called protestants in these three nations of england , scotland and ireland , whether you be of the faith and principles of those called episcopalians , or whether you be presbyterians so called , or anabaptists , or baptists , or independents , or of any other name or denomination , behold a looking-glass for you all , whereinto , if you will look , you may see , whether ye be true protestants , or not . you do all indeed lay claim to the title of protestants ; but as they were of old , who called themselves jews , but were not ; so in this day , there are many who call themselves protestants , but are not , for they agree not with the antient testimonie and spirit of the protestants , but are exceedingly degenerated from them , both in life and doctrine , who if they had been true to the protetant cause , for which god raised up the first protestants , above one hundred years ago , had not only retained the life and doctrine of the antient protestants , but had advanced further , and gone beyond them both in largness of discoveries , and purity of life , for at that time , it was but as the twy-light , or dawning of the day , so that they had not attained unto so clear and perfect discoveries of truth , as were afterwards to come : but oh , how have the most of them all , who in this day are called protestants , not only been deficient in advancing and carrying on that testimony and cause for which the lord raised up the primitive protestants , but are fallen exceeding short of them , yea degenerated and back sliden from them in those weightiest and most material things , which they bore testimony unto in their day , as they were called forth of th lord , and furnished by him , not only to appear for his truth in words , but with a most noble and invincible courage to seal it with their blood , among whom william tindal was one of the most eminent , whose works and labours , by the blessing and grace of god , were of great use to propagate knowledge unto the people of these nations in that day , wherein ignorance and darkness so much abounded . this william tindal , was a man not only of a pious and good life , but well learned , as appeareth in that he translated the bible , both the old and new testament , so called , out of the tongues in which they were originally writ , into the english ; whose translation is the first english translation that is extant , and a good work it was in that day , and of great service among the peolpe , which made the romish clergy so angry ( who would have still hoodwinck'd the people in ignorance ) that they ceased not until they got him burnt , who suffered martyrdom for the truth , in west flanders , in the days of queen mary ; but above all , he was a man endowed with a good measure of the spirit of god , and taught of god , as both his own works , and the history of his life recorded by fox in his martyrology , doth sufficiently make manifest unto any who have a spiritual discerning : and if there be any things found in his works , which answer not perfectly to the truth , it is to be imputed to the darkness and ignorance of that time , which god wincked at ; nor should these things , which were given him , as testimonies from the lord , to bear in his day , be the less esteemed and received , because of any weakness or imperfections , as touching some things , wherein he might be swayed by the darkness of that time in which he lived ; but rather we should be thankful unto god for his mercy , in that he lighted such a candle , and set it on a candlestick to shine as a light in a dark place , while darkness was so thick throughout all the land. i could cite the testimonies of many other witnesses , who sealed their testimony with their blood unto the truth , both in england and scotland , and also in other places . but this being done partly by others formerly , and as it may please the lord so to order it , it may yet be done more largly , only at this time i found my self moved in the zeal of the lord , to give forth this small treatise , being a faithful collection of the words of the aforesaid william tindal , extracted by me , out of his printed works with my own hand , without adding unto , or diminishing from them , so much as one word , only the titles i have added before each purpose , by way of index . my design is to make it known , that we , the people in derision called quakers ▪ are truest protestants ; for all , who have any knowledg of our principle , whether by reading our books , or hearing our declarations , cannot but see , that those testimonies of william tindal are more agreeable unto our principles , than unto those of any other people in these three nations . some clear testimonies unto the truth , ( as it is owned by the people called in derision quakers collected out of the works and books of william tindall martyr . chap. i. concerning christs dying for all men. in his prologue upon the prophet jonas . we be all equally created , and formed os one god our father , and indifferently bought and redeemed , with one blood of our saviour jesus christ. chap. ii. concerning both the law and gospel , being in mans heart . in the same prologue upon jonas . as the law which fretteth thy conscience is in thy heart , and is no outward thing ; even so seek within thy heart the plaister of mercy , the promises of forgiveness in our saviour jesus christ : according unto all the ensamples of mercy that are gone before . and with jonas let them that wait on vanities , and seek god here and there , and in every temple , save in their hearts : go and seek thou the testament of god in thy heatt ; sor in thy heart is the word of the law , and in thine heart is the word of faith in the promises of mercy in jesus christ ; so that if thou confess with a repenting heart , and knowledge ; and surely believe that jesus is lord over all sin , thou art safe . chap. iii. concerning the outward and inward part of the scripture . in the same prologue . the scripture hath a body without , and within a soul , spirit , and life ; it hath without , a bark , a shell , and as it were , an hard bone , for the fleshly minded to gnaw upon ; and within it hath pith , kernel , marrow , and all sweetness for gods elect , which he hath chosen to give them his spirit and to write his law , and the faith of his son , in their hearts . chap. iv. concerning the heathen , that they had the spirit of god , and that pharoh had the spirit of grace , before his heart was hardned . in his prologue upon matthew . and paul writeth rom. . that the heathen because when they knew god , they had no list to honour him with godly living ; therefore god powered his wrath upon them , and took his spirit from them , and gave them up to their hearts lusts to serve sin , from iniquity , to iniquity ; till they were throughly hardned , and past repentance . and pharoh , because when the word of god was in his country , and gods people scattered , throughout all his land ; and yet he never loved them , nor it ; therefore god gave him up : and in taking his spirit of grace from him , so hardned his heart with covetousness , that afterward no myracle could convert him , hereunto pertaineth the parable of the talents . chap. v. concerning good works through working of the spirit of god , how that they help to continue us in the favour and grace of god. in the same prologue . let us arm our selves with this remembrance , that as christs works justifie from sin , and set us in the favour of god ; so our own deeds through working of the spirit of god , help us to continue in the favour and the grace , into which christ hath brought us ; and that we can no longer continue in favour and grace , than our hearts are to keep the law. chap. vi. concerning a believer , and spiritual man that is renewed , how he needeth no outward law. in his treatise on the parable of the wicked mammon . as thouneedest not to bid a tree to bring forth fruit , so is there no law put into him that believeth , and is justified through faith ( as saith paul in the first epistle to timothy chap. i. ) neither is it needful : for the law of god is written and graved in his heart , and his pleasure is therein . and in another treatise of his , called the obedience of a christian man. he now that is renewed in christ keepeth the law , without any law written , or compulsion of any ruler , or officer , save by the leading of the spirit only . chap. obed. of subjects . chap. vii . concerning faith , how that the true faith , is a feeling faith. in his answer to sir tho. mores dialogue , . there are two manner of faiths , an historical faith , and a feeling faith. the historical faith hangeth on the truth and honesty of the teller , or on the common fame and consent of many : as if one told me , that the turk had wone a city , and i believed it , moved with the honesty of the man : now if there comes another that seemeth more honest , or that hath better perswasions that it is not so , i think immediately that he lyed , and lose my faith again . and a feeling faith is , as if a man were there present when it was won , and there were wounded , and had there lost all that he had , and were taken prisoner there also . that man should so believe that all the world could not turn him from his faith : even likewise if my mother had blown on her finger , and told me that the fire would burn me , i should have believed her with an hystorical faith , as we believe the stories of the world , because i thought she would not have mocked me : and so i should have done , if she had told me that the fire had been cold , and would not have burned : but assoon as i had put my finger in the fire , i should have believed , not by reason of her , but with a feeling faith , so that she could not have perswaded me afterward the contrary . so now with an historical faith , i may believe that the scripture is gods , by the teaching of them , and so i should have done , though they had told me that robinhood had been the scripture of god , which faith is but an opinion , and therefore abideth ever fruitless , and falleth away , if a more glorious reason be made unto me , or if the preacher live contrary . but of a feeling faith , it is written , john . they shall be all taught of god , that is , god shall writ it in their hearts with his holy spirit , and also teftifieth rom. . the spirit beareth record unto our spirit , that we be the sons of god ; and this faith is none opinion , but a sure feeling , and therefore ever fruitful , never hangeth it of the honesty of the preacher , but of the power of god , and of the spirit : and therefore if all the preachers of the world would go about to perswade the contrary , it would not prevail no more than though they would make me believe the fire were cold , after that i had put my finger therein . of this ye have an ensample , job . . of the samaritanish wife , which left her pitcher and went into the city , and said , come and see a man , &c. but when they had heard christ , the spirit wrought , and made them feel , whereupon they came unto the woman and said , we believe not now , because of thy saying , but because we have heard our selves , and know , that he is christ , the saviour of the world : for christ's preaching was with power and spirit , that maketh a man feell and know , and work too , and not as the scribes and pharisees preached , and as ours , make a man ready to cast his gorge to hear them , rave and rage as mad men . chap. viii . concerning the inward preaching , teaching , and speaking of the spirit of god , unto the soul , and inward reading and hearing , and that true believers believe the principles of their faith , not because they are written in books , but because they are inwardly taught by the spirit of god. in the same treatise of his answer to sir t. moors dialogue . when thou art askt why thou believest that thou shalt be saved by christ , and of such like principles of our faith , answer thou wottest and feelest that it is true , and when he asketh how thou knowest that it is true , answer , because it is written in thine heart ; and if he ask , who wrote it , answer the spirit of god ; and if he ask , how thou came first by it , tell him , whether by reading in books , or hearing it preached , as by any outward instrument , but that inwardly thou wast taught by the spirit of god ; and if he ask whether thou believest it not , because it is written in books , or because the priests so preach , answer no , not now , but only because it is written in thine heart , and because the spirit of god so preacheth , and so testifieth unto thy soul ; and say , though at the beginning , thou wast moved by reading or preaching , as the samaritans were by the words of the woman , yet now thou believest it not therefore any longer , but only because thou hast heard it of the spirit of god , and read it written in thine heart . chap. ix . concerning the feeling of the working of the spirit , and that none ought to think that his faith is right , who hath not this feeling . in his parable of the wicked mammon . how dare a man presume to think that his faith is right , and that gods favour is on him , and that gods spirit is in him , when he feeleth not the working of the spirit , neither himfelf disposed to any godly thing . and again , where the spirit is there is feeling : sor the spirit maketh us feel all things ; where the spirit is not there is no feeling . chap. x. concerning justification . how to be justified , is to be made inwardly righteous , good and holy ; and when he pleadeth , that we are not justified by works , he meaneth by warks , the outward works ; but doth not exclude inward righteousness , regeneration , and sanctification , from having any place or respect in our justification ; but doth indeed include it . in the parable of the wicked mammon . so now by this abide sure and fast , that a man inwardly in the heart , and before god , is righteous and good , through faith only , before all works : notwitstanding , yet outwardly and openly before the people , yea , and before himself is he righteous through the work : that is , he knoweth , and is sure , through the outward work , that he is a true believer , and in the favour of god , and righteous and good , through the mercy of god ; that thou mayest call the one , an open and outward righteousness ; and the other , an inward righteousness of the heart ( so yet ) that thou understand by the outward righteousness , no other thing , save the fruit that followeth , and and a declaring of the inward justifying and righteousness of the heart ; and not that it maketh a man righteous before god , but that he must be first righteous before him in the heart ; even as thou mayeft call the fruit of the tree the outward goodness of the tree , which followeth and uttereth the inward natural goodness of the tree . again in his answer to t. mores fourth book . that thing which maketh a man love the law of god , doth make a man righteous , and justifieth him effectually , and actually ; and maketh him alive , as a workman , and cause efficient . chap. xi . concerning the sabbath . in his answer to t. more his first book . and as for the sabbath a great matter ! we be lords over the sabbath , and may yet change it into the monday , or any other day , as we see need : or may make every tenth day holy-day , only if we see a cause why , we may make two every week , if it were expedient , and one not enough to teach the people . neither was there any cause to change it from the saturday , than to put difference between us and the jews ; and lest we should become servants unto the day , after their superstition . neither needed we any holy-day at all , if the people might be taught without it . chap. xii . that magistrates may preach , and that every man that is well taught may preach , or teach , in case of necessity ; as when the ordinary preachers are ignorant , and preach false doctrine , and that women may teach . in his exposition on mat. . all kings and all rulers are bound to be salt and light , not only in example of living , but also in teaching of doctrine unto their subjects , as well as they be bound to punish evil doers . doth not the scripture testifie that king david was chosen to be a shepherd , and to feed his people with gods word ? it is an evil school-master , that cannot but beat only ; but it is a good schoolmaster , that so teacheth , that few need to be beaten . again , moreover every man ought to preach in word and deed unto his houshold , and to them that are under his governance . and though no man may preach openly , save he that hath the office committed unto him ; yet ought every man to endeavour himself , to be as well learned as the preacher , as nigh as it is possible . and every man may privately inform his neighbour ; yea , and the preacher and bishop too , if need be : for if the preacher preach wrong , you may , any man , whatsoever he be , rebuke him , first privately ; and then ( if that help not ) to complain further ; and when all is proved , according to the order of charity , and yet no amendment had : then ought every man that can to resist him , aud to stand by christs doctrine , and to jeopard life and all for it ; look on the old ensamples , and they shall teach thee — when we have proved all that charity bindeth us , and yet in vain ; then we must come forth openly , and rebuke their wickedness in the face of the world , and jeopard life and all thereon . and in answer to t. m. . book . if baptism be so necessary , as they make it , then love thy neighbour as thy self , doth teach women to baptize , yea and to teach , and to rule their husbands too , if they be beside themselves . again , in his answer to mores th book . if a woman learned in christ , were driven into an isle , where christ was never preached , might she not then preach and teach to minister the sacraments , and make officers ? the case is possible , shew you what should let , that she might not , love thy ncighbour as thy self , doth compell . chap. xiii . concerning philosophy , how it is not needful to understand the scripture . in his parable of the wicked mammon . many are not ashamed to rail and blaspheme , saying how should he understand the scripture , seeing he is no philosopher , never hath seen his metophysick . moreover , they blas pheme , saying , how can he be a devine , and wo tteth not what is subjectum in theologia . nevertheless as a man without the spirit of ariristotle or philosophie , may by the spirit of god understand scripture , even so by the spirit of god understandeth he , that god is to be sought in all the scripture , and in all things , and yet wotteth not , what meaneth subjectum in theologia , because it is a term of their own making . chap. xiv . concerning hereticks , that they should not be corporally punished . whereas t. more alledged that s. paul gave two hereticks to the devil , which tormented their flesh , which was no small punishment , and haply he slew them : w. tindall answereth , " o expounder of the scripture ! like hugo charensis , which expoundeth hereticum hominem de vita , take the heretick out of his life : we read of no pain that he had whom the christians excommunicated and gave to sathan to slay his flesh , save that he was ashamed of himself and repented , &c. a testimony of john frith , another english martyr , against outward and bodily compelling and punishing of them that believe not aright . in his answer to the lord rochester bishop . to say that christ would have his disciples to compel men , with prisonment , fetters , scourging , sword and fire is very false , and far from the mildness of a chaste spirit , although my lord approve it never so much ; for christ did forbid his disciples such tyranny , yea rebukes them , because they would have desired , that fire should descend from heaven and consume the samaritans , which would receive not christ : but with violence will god have no man compelled unto his law. paul also testifieth , cor. . that he had not rule over the corinthians , as touching their faith. and again , as no man can search the heart , but god only , so can no man judge or order our faith but god only through his holy spirit . collected faithfully by me g. k. out of the works of w. tindall and john frith , who are called worthy martyrs , and principal teachers of the church of england , in the title page of the book printed at london by john day , anno . come hither all you called episcopalians , presbyterians , independents , baptists , and any others , and let us try your faith , whether it be the same , with that of the antient protestants , as also we are willing , that our faith be put to the tryal , that it may appear , whose faith is most agreeable to the faith of antient protestants and martyrs ; one of the most eminent whereof was this william tindal : who above one hundred years ago , was a principal teacher of the church of england , and died a martyr . . first , his faith was , that as we are all created of one god , so we are all indifferently bought with one blood of our saviour jesus christ , so tbat christ his shedding of his blood , is as universal for men , as the work of their creation : and this is our faith who are called quakers , to wit , that christ hath tasted death for every man , and that he hath dyed for all according to the scriptures . but whether is this your faith yea or nay ? . secondly , his faith was , that both the law and the gospel , are in the hearts of men , and is none outward thing , and that we should seek within our hearts the plaister of mercy , yea that we should seek the testament of god in our hearts , and the word of the law , and of faith , and that we should let them go who seek god here and there , and in every temple save in their hearts : and this is our faith , who witness unto the words in the heart , and bid people seek god within them , and christ within , and not without them , in temples made with hands , or outward observations . but whether is this your faith , yea or nay ? . thirdly , his faith was , that the scripture had a body without , a bark and shell , and as it were a hard bone , but within it had a soul , spirit and life , &c. and this is our faith , who say , the letter killeth , and the letter of the scripture is not the word , but the life is the word that is within , and is no outward thing : but whether is this your faith yea or nay , who say the letter is the word , and deny the word originally to be in the heart ? fourthly , his faith was , that the heathen once bad the spirit of god , and that pharoah , before his heart was bardened , had the spirit of grace , and this is our faith who say , the true light which is spirit , doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world , sufficiently unto salvation , and that a manifestation of the spirit is given unto every man to profit withal . but whether is this your faith yea or nay ? who deny the saving light of christ to be universal . fifthly , his faith was , that good-works through working of the spirit of god , are absolutely needful to continue us in the favour of god , and in a justified state , and this is our faith , but whether this is your faith yea or nay , seeing many of you say , david continued in the favour of god , and justified , while he committed murder and adultery . sixthly , his faith was , that a believer needed no outward law nor rule , for he keepeth the law , by the leading of the spirit only , and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , who say the scripture , ( which is outwardly ) is the only rule , and will not acknowledg the spirit within to be the rule . seventhly , his faith was , that the scriptures are to be believed that they are of god , because of the inward testimony and teaching of the spirit of god , and that the true faith is a feeling faith , & a sure feeling , & who have this faith , are taught of god himself , as immediately as when a man is taught that the fire is hct , by putting his finger in it , here the fire teacheth him immediately , that it is hot , and he needeth no man to tell him , and this is our faith in all these parculars , who witness unto the immediate teachings of god by his spirit in our hearts . but whether is this your faith yea or nay , who deny spiritual feeling and sense to be essential to true faith , telling people they must not seek to live by spiritual sense and feeling , but by faith ; as also telling them , that faith may be without assurance . this is contrary to , will. tindall his faith , and contrary to the scriptures testimony , which calleth faith and guidence , a seeing , a handling , all which imply both spiritual sence and assureance . eighthly , his faith was , that men were to believe the principles of their religion , not because they are written in books but because they are inwardly taught by the spirit of god , and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , who say , the scriptures are the formal object of faith , and the first rule or moving cause by way of object , to make us believe , and who say , immediate revelation is ceased , and is not the general priviledge of all true believers . ninthly , his faith was , that the working of the spirit was to be felt , and was to be known by feeling , and that none should think his faith right , who hath not the feeling of the spirit , and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , who deny tbe feeling of the spirit , properly so called , and mock and deride us when we speak of feeling , and when ye ask us , how know ye that you are moved & led by thespirit to such things , we answer , by our feeling , which bath certainty , and evidence in it that is sufficient . this answer ye reject , as fanatical , heretical , and what not ? tenthly , his faith was , that men are justified by an inward righteousness wrought by the spirit of god in the bea rt : and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , who deny that any are justified by an inward rigbteousness in their hearts , although wrought in them by the spirit of god. eleventhly , his faith was , that the first day of the week , was not commanded by god to be kept boly , but the church keepeth that day , because of convenience for instructing the people , and worshiping god : and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , who say , that day is of gods commanding to be kept as a sabbath . twelfthly , his faith was , that magistrates may preach , and every man may preach or teach , who is taught of god , in case of necessity , and that women may teach : and this is our faith , but whether is this your faith , yea or nay , vvho would monopolise it unto the clergy , or a certain order of literate men. thirteenthly , his faith vvas , that philosophy and school . learning was not needful to understand the scripture , nor to be a preacher or divine : and this is our faith , but vvhether is this your faith , yea or nay , who lay so great stress upon philosophy and school-learning , that ye permit none to be preachers , or doctors of divinity who have not them . fourteenthly , his faith vvas , as also the faith of john frith , another principal teacher in england , and martyr , that hereticks were not to be punished with prisonment , fetters , scourging , sword and fire : and this vvas the faith of many others in that day , and this is our faith ; but vvhether is this your faith , yea or nay , whose chiefest arguments against us , the people in derision called quakers , have been prisons , banishings , scourgings , spoiling of goods , and such like carnal and violent ways . writ by me george keith , one of these people , in derision called quakers , who am a true and cordial protestant . the end. univeral love in which a visitation floweth through the creation, that all people may be informed into the truth, and in their several places come to walk in the truth, and live in the truth, to be a good favour unto god, and honour god. . to parents of children. . to masters and dames of families. . to servants in their places. . to aged people. . to such as live a single life. . to young people. . to children. . to such as are in outward government. . to ministers of parishes, so called. . to such as practise in the nations law. . to such as trade in wights and measures. . to such as buy and sell in the markets or in any other places. with a general exhortation. also something concerning faith, and hope, and love, and the word, and mans restless part, and the election, and a particular place of bondage opened. ... william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) univeral love in which a visitation floweth through the creation, that all people may be informed into the truth, and in their several places come to walk in the truth, and live in the truth, to be a good favour unto god, and honour god. . to parents of children. . to masters and dames of families. . to servants in their places. . to aged people. . to such as live a single life. . to young people. . to children. . to such as are in outward government. . to ministers of parishes, so called. . to such as practise in the nations law. . to such as trade in wights and measures. . to such as buy and sell in the markets or in any other places. with a general exhortation. also something concerning faith, and hope, and love, and the word, and mans restless part, and the election, and a particular place of bondage opened. ... william smith. smith, william, d. . the second edition. [ ], , - p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year . place of publication from wing. text and register continuous despite pagination. copy has print show-through. reproduction of the original in the congregational library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . conduct of life -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion universal love. in which a visitation floweth through the creation , that all people may be informed into the truth , and in their several places come to walk in the truth , and live in the truth , to be a good savour unto god , and honour god. . to parents of children . . to masters and dames of families . . to servants in their places . . to aged people . . to such as live a single life . . to young people . . to children . . to such as are in outward government . . to ministers of parishes so called . . to such as practise in the nations law . to such as trade in weights and measures . . to such as buy and sell in markets or in any other places . with a general exhortation . also something concerning faith , and hope , and love , and the word , and mans restless part , and the election , and a particular place of bondage opened . that all may come to the light of the lord jesus christ , and to his life and power , and wisdom ; through which all people may love one another , and be at peace one amongst another , and deal justly one with another upon all occasions ; that justice and mercy , and equity , sobriety , moderation , chastity , temperance , righteousness , holiness , peace , and love , may have a free , and an universal course , and the creation may be set at liberty , which yet travelleth in pain , and bears the burthen of all disorder . william smith . the second edition . printed in the year . a table of the principle heads contained in this book . . to parents of children . page . . to masters and dames of families . page . . to servants in their places . page . . to aged people . page . . to such as live a single life . page . . to young people . page . . to children . page . . to such as are in outward government . page . . to ministers of parishes , so called . page . . to such as practise in the nations law. page . . to such as trade in weights and measures . page . . to such as buy and sell in markets , or in any other places . page . . a general exhortation . page . . concerning faith. page . . concerning hope . page . . concerning love. page . . concerning the word . page . . concerning mans restless part , and the election . page . . a particular place of bondage opened . page . an epistle dedicated to the measure of light and life in all people . this book is dedicated unto the most noble , and honourable , and worthy of all things , the principle of god in every man , knowing that it is the ●ost excellent in vertue , and that from the 〈…〉 hath loved the best things , and deligh●e●● i● the plain simple path of truth , and hath no● at any time cunningly devised inventions ; it hath ever been vertuous in goodness , and a true lover of such as hath loved uprightness , it hath ever despised vice and vanity , and never could joyn with any evil thing ; it hath ever been of an humble meek nature , and tender in compassion to all people ; it hath ever been of a peaceable disposition and condescending to the lowest state ; it hath alwayes loved the good , and delighted in the best things , and in innocency and simplicity the most perfect , and in wisdom the most excellent , and it is most renownable in glory , and full of all riches and treasures , the graces and excellency of its vertue and beauty , doth far excel the praise of men . and unto this principle alone , is this book dedicated , as being unto me the most lovely , renownable , and for ever honorable ; for it is that unto me which is the chiefest good , and it doth communicate from it self , the riches of it self , and that to the glory and honour of its own power and wisdom over all ; and the matter which in this book is contained , being received and accepted by it , i shall rejoyce in my labor , however men distinct from it , may esteem it , for it is not the praise of men that i seek , howbeit i am moved to labour in the work of the lord ; but i desire to be manifest to every mans conscience in the sight of god , and to be approved by his pure eye that seeth secrets ; and let all glory , and honour , and praise , and renown , be given unto him alone , for ever and ever : and unto the measure of himself in every man , i commend this book in all humility , reverence and fear . w. s. to the reader . reader , when thou settest thine eye to read this book , set the fear of god before it , and be not so hasty to read , as diligent to understand ; for there is much communicated , and from the life of god published , that is not read in that from which it is given forth , but run over with a hasty mind out of gods fear , through which the benefit that might be received is lost , and the labour of those that would do good , doth not become so effectual ; for when people do not read with a sound mind , they do not weigh the substance of the matter , nor do not prove their own present states , but hastily read without understanding , and then the matter slips out of their minds , and the profit is lost , and the good intended is not reaped . therefore reader , be thou careful , and first set gods fear before thee , and read with that of god in thee ; and consider through the several states , which in this book is opened , and try where thou canst find thy own place , or unto which thou art nearest ; for thou mayst certainly know with that of god in thee , and with that thou mayst feel , when thou read'st thy own state ; for the witness of god will find thee , and will come close to thee , when thy state is opened , and will manifest how it is with thee in thy place , and what order thou art in ; and read with a single eye , and a simple mind , and then thou wilt profit : and do not charge the matter in this book , to lye too much in duty , or to stand too much in outward things ; for if thou read it diligently , thou mayst observe , that there is nothing pressed in duty , but what is required by the principle , unto which the duty ought to stand in all things ; and though there be much which lye outward , yet the information reaches to the principle inward , unto which thou joyning , thou wilt know that all outward things that is not manifested from it , will be reproved by it , unto which reproof thou art to yeeld thy self in obedience ; and by obeying the principle which reproves unrighteousness within , thou wilt find that all unrighteousness without must be denyed also , and that in obedience to the principle within ; and thou may observe , that salvation is not published through any thing done , but by jesus christ alone ; yet there must be obedience given unto him , before salvation be witnessed by him . so be sober and vigilant , and judge nothing rashly , but weigh things cooly , and the answer will be given unto truths testimony , by that of god in thee ; and whether thou wilt hear and obey , or neglect and contemn , yet the truth will find a witness in thy conscience , unto which this book is commended ; and if thou be careful , and keep in gods fear , and chuse the good , then may thou find profit , and peace , and comfort to thy soul ; and if it so come to pass concerning thee , whoever thou art , i shall therein rejoyce . w. s. vniversal love. the wisdom that is pure from above hath the good order in it , and by its government the creation standeth in its place and service , and all things come to be used and ordered in the fear of god , and in this wisdom people are fitly disposed , and are in a right capacity to order the creation , and every one in their place doth yield a good favour unto god , for the wisdom from above is gentle , and peaceable , and easie to be entreated , full of mercy , and goodness , and truth ; and this wisdom being received , the mind is fitly disposed to order those things which are committed to trust and charge , and every one in their place comes to see their duty in their place , and how they are to answer god through those things which he commits unto them , and in their several places where he sets them , and comes to see the great weight that lies upon them , to perform with care and diligence such service as in their place god requires ; and so the wisdom from above doth order every man in his place , and he becomes a good favour in his place both to god and man , and through the righteousness that proceeds from such a man , the lord god is glorified ; and this is that which all people in their respective places are to mind , and in what thing they are called to serve the lord , in that thing , and in that place to be carefull to answer god , and to honour god ; and such who have children are in this thing very deeply concerned , for the charge upon them is exceeding great ; and therefore they are to mind the just and holy principle of god in themselves , that they may receive the wisdom from above , and in that to nurture and bring up their children in the fear of the lord ; for how can parent bring up their children in the fear of god , when they walk not in the fear of god themselves ? and how can they inform their children into that which is good , when they themselves live in that which is evil ? and such parents do usually teach their children to be vain and to follow that which is evil , and so covetous parents teach their children covetousness , for their own minds being in that thing , they press their children to the practise of it , and yet not under a shew of covetousness , but under a shew of carefulness and providence , at which door the mind goeth forth into the world , and reaches it self to compass the wealth and riches of it , and such parents give encouragement to their children in this place , and smile upon them with a cheerfull countenance ; and so the child runs in delighting , and with pleasure exerciseth it self in covetous practises , and strives after the earthly treasures to please its parents , and the parents account such children , careful children , and provident & witty , and the children are hereby tempted out of the path of honesty , and so run in cozening , and cheating , and defrauding for gain , and that is counted pollicy , and the parents will smile upon their children , and in such things delight in them , as being witty , and so teaches them and instructs them into such practises ; and how are children wronged in this place for want of good nurture in the fear of god! and when wealth and riches are heaped together , then the mind is lifted up in pride , and the parents they exalt their children in haughtiness and pride , and then they must have things suitable to their outward condition ; and so first teaches them to be covetous , and then to be proud , and poor children are lifted up in their minds at the beholding their costly apparel , and their gay cloathing , which by their parents are provided , and for want of good nurture in this place they run out of gods fear , and out of true order , and then their parents train them up in such things as they look at to be sutable to their conditions , and so they put them to learn musick , and dancing , and singing , and with such like vain things poor children are wronged by their parents , who should keep them in good order , and in the fear of god ; and how do parents allow their children liberty to sport and play and to be vain , and informs them into the expertnesse of such practises ? and how are children exercised in vanity ? and how do they spend such dayes in vanity , which they pretend to be holy dayes ? and doe not all such dayes which they observe to be holy , end in prophanesse and vanity , and wickednesse ? and are not children at liberty upon such dayes to satisfie their vain minds in pleasures , and in sports , and run into headiness , and wildness ? and the rest of dayes which they do not count holy , they turn their minds into covetousness and deceit : and are these things commendable for parents , or for children ? or are these things like christians ? and how are poor children , for want of good nurture in time , carried away into all manner of vanity , and so taken captive at the will of the devil , who holds them fast after he hath taken them , and so vanity becomes natural to children , who know no better from their childhood ; and what a dishonour is this to parents , who should be grave , and wise , and sober , and stayed , for them to encourage their children in such things , and behold them in the practise of such things with delight ? such things do not become a christian profession in no place , and to be sure it is not a christians practise , for it is unsavoury to god , and grieves his spirit , and all that are guided by his spirit ; and it is a trouble to christians to see vanity flow in as a natural streame , from generation to generation , and the mind of people to be so seated in it , as they study from time to time how to advance it , and to train up their children in it , for if children were not encouraged in vanity , and trained up in it when they are young , they would be more innocent , and simple , and stand more in the true order , for as they are children they are innocent and harmless , and a child , as it is a child , is more in the innocency , than it is all its life time after , except it come to the spirit of god , by that to be regenerated ; and therefore it must needs be a great weight upon parents in this case , for by training up their children in vanity , they draw upon themselves the childs iniquity , and by how much they do encourage their children in vanity , by so much the more do they wrong both themselves and their children : therefore it is of concernment for all parents of children to weigh the matter , and in time to consider it , for certainly the lord is grieved with evil deeds , and with the disorderly walking of all such as are out of his fear , and that parents would be more mindfull of what they are intrusted with , and to order it in gods fear and wisdom , that all they have under their charge may be a good favour unto god , and bring honour to his name ; for if it be not so , all his gifts are abused , and his name dishonored , and there the creation is out of order . now all parents must come to that of god in themselves , before they can instruct their children in the fear of god ; they must come to the light in their own consciences , and in the light behold their own present state , for being from the light of christ they cannot walk in gods fear themselves , neither can they teach their children so ; and is not that a grievous thing , when a whole family is out of the fear of god , and both parents and children exercised in vanity ? and how doth wickedness flow like a flood from generation to generation , and one generation goeth and another cometh , and with every generation sin appeareth , and evil is practised , and grows from one to another in full strength , and this is the ground , because that children are not trained up in gods fear , for if that was so , sin would dye , and in every generation it would grow weaker and weaker , and in time it would be rooted out , and the practise in it would cease , and it would not be had in remembrance . therefore all you parents of children , mind the fear of god in your selves : and come to the principle of god in your own consciences , and yield your selves unto that , and obey it , and then you cannot see your children run into vanity , and suffer them to go unreproved , if you once hearken to the voice of god in you , and mind the testimony of his witness in your consciences , to know in your selves unto what reproof belongeth , and what the lord alloweth , and so to answer the lord in obedience , and come to know your selves changed , then you will be able to instruct your children in the same path , and cannot suffer them to run into vanity , much less to train them up in it ; and so in the principle of god you will receive wisdom from above , and know the nature of it , in which wisdom is the pure order and good government ; then you cannot let your children lye , and swear , and curse , and play , and riot ; and be vain in pleasures , and games , your eye will be over them in wisdom , and in the gentleness you will reprove them , and in meekness instruct them , and when they do go amiss you will feel grief come upon you concerning them , and when you are grieved for them in that state , then take heed you do not fall into passion , and anger , and wrath , and in that exercise your wills upon them , and use your hand in severity towards them , but in wisdom wait to be guided , that not any fault which comes to your knowledge may pass unreproved , neither any fault be too severely punished , for they are both out of true order , and you may know that when you have exercised your hand upon them in passion that you are not free from trouble afterwards , when you come into coolness again you will be judged in your selves for your rashnesse , and then you will have trouble in your conscience , and there is no profit to your children by that hand , because wisdome doth not order it . therefore ye parents , who would have your children to do will , and to be happy , wait to be ordered in wisdom towards them , and keeping to the light of the lord , you will know both how to spare , and how to correct , and so with a meek and gentle spirit bring them into order , and bend them in their tenderness , before the bad part grow stubborn and be strong , for in their tenderness it will be easie , and whilst they art young and green the witness lies near them , and reproof soon reaches them , and if there be but an eye upon them in the wisdom of god , the witness will answer , and the bad will be presently judged in them , which growing into more strength , for want of timely order the darkness thickens over them , and then the witness lies at a farther distance , and that which at first might have been rebuked with a look , will not then be brought down with a blow ; and here parents both wrong themselves and their children for want of wisdom ; for they give way to their children whilst they are young , and so lets up the bad part into strength , and when they come to behold things far amiss in their children then they would bend them , and cannot , and so lets up the bad nature over their own heads , and then beholds their children with mourning , which in wisdom might be timely prevented . and this is a great wrong both to parents and children , and brings grief and sorrow upon them both : therefore order is a sweet thing , when parents have wisdom to govern their children , and to nurture them in the fear of god , and to keep them in duty and submission in the fear of god , then there is a good savour both in parents and children , and a comly order beheld in the wisdom , and to come into this comly order is a sweet savour ; and to inform children to the principle of god in them , and to teach them the fear of god , and learn them to behave themselves modestly and soberly unto all people , this is good education , and also a good portion , and there is the good breeding , and the good manners , which is decent and orderly , and is an order approved of god ; but to let them run at liberty , and bring them up in the foolish vain customs , and teach them to observe traditions , this is not orderly nor decent , though they be taught to observe all customs , it is not good breeding , nor good manners , for those things are come to pass in the degeneration from the good , and to teach children to bow , and scrape , and to put off their hats to respect persons , this is not good breeding nor good manners , for good breeding and good manners is in the fear of god ; but he that respects persons commits sin , and is out of the fear of god , and such things are not approved of god , and that which he doth not approve , he doth condemn ; and to teach children to observe traditions in matter of worship or otherwise , it is not good order , nor decent ; to teach children a formal worship , or a formal prayer , or any formal practise accustomed by tradition , and doth not proceed from a present manifestation of the spirit of god , it is not good order , nor decent , for the lord doth not allow of any traditional practise , which stands in form distinct from his spirit , and what he doth not allow , he doth reprove . and therefore the matter is weighty upon parents every way , to keep their children under nurture , and teach them the fear of the lord whilst they are tender , and in all things to inform them to the principle of god in their conscience , that with the light of christ they may be guided , and with the light of christ they may be taught , and by it ordered in all their wayes , and in all their doings ; then would mercy and truth spring in children , and righteousness and holiness would naturally branch forth , and children wou'd become a sweet savour in their generation , and in their places would fear god , and honour god , which now grieves him , and vexes him with their ungodliness and unrighteousness , vanity and prfaneness . and so all parents , mind your places and your charge , that you may account to god with joy , and not with grief , and alwayes inform your children to the light of christ jesus in their conscience , the light that shews both them and you , your thoughts , and words , and deeds , and reproves for all evil , which is the principle from which good order is brought forth ; and be not hasty with your children in any matter , nor let not bitterness arise at any time against them , but in all meekness instruct them , and in wisdom watch over them , so you will know when to rebuke and when to cherish , when to correct , and when to spare , and the rod will then fall in its right place , and in minding the lord god , and receiving his wisdom , with that wisdom order your children , so you will have comfort in them , and they will bless you in time to come : but if you suffer it to be otherwise , you will have grief enough in your own dayes , and in time to come your children cannot remember you with joy , and that is a sad state every way . therefore walk in the fear of the lord god , and love the light of christ with which you are enlightened , and in the light you will receive wisdom , in which wisdom is decency and good order every way , and in every place and this will be your peace , and your childrens happiness , and they will grow in gods fear , and come up in his power , and so from generation to generation righteousness will spring , and truth will spread abroad . to masters and dames of families . rule not in lordship over such as are in place to serve you , but walk in wisdom to-towards them , and be tender over them in their places , that they may serve you with joy , and not with grief ; and consider that god made of one blood all nations , and such as have the lowest place distinguishable amongst men , if they walk in gods fear , they are accepted of him ; and you are not to exercise your selves in your own wills over them , though they be your servants , but are to order them in the wisdom of god , by which all things were made and created ; in which wisdom you will see the use and service of all things which you have under your hands , and will see the creation in its service in every place , and so come to know the end for which you have servants to serve you , and the service of that which you have to employ them in . and therefore let your care be to instruct your servants in the fear of god , for that is your right place as masters and dames , and keep them out of vanity , and in that let your care and diligence be manifested , for that is a good favour : and how do you wrong your servants and your selves by giving way to their liberty in vanity , for that causeth them to run out of the fear of god , and thereby wrongs themselves , and it causes your business to be neglected , which they ought to be carefull in ; and when by their carelesness you see your business neglected , then your passion rises against them , and it may be hard words and speeches you may give them , and be full of fury and wrath , and thereby disturbs your own peace ; and this is a great wrong to your selves , first , to have your business neglected , and secondly , to have your peace disturbed , which by your timely care in your places , might both be prevented ; for did you but stand in gods wisdom , you would not let your servants run into vanity in any case , but keep them in obedience to your just commands , and in the fear of god to answer their places , and not suffer them to run into wildness , and sports , and plays , and upon those dayes in which they do not follow labour , to keep them in some good exercise in the fear of god , and in all things , and in every place , to inform them to the principle of god in them ; that which reproves sin in the conscience , that searcher which tryes the intents of the heart ; this would bring them into stayedness , and soberness , and coolness , and keep them out of loosness and liberty at all times , and in every place , and when they were free from your labour , they would be exercising themselves in something that is good and wholsom , and walk in the fear of god , and not run into madness , and sports , and spend their time worse in those things , then if they were at labour : and what good doth the observation of those dayes , when they are observed in vanity and madness , and folly ? had not servants better be at their honest labour , than be at foot-ball , and cudghils , and dancing , and revelling , and drinking in ale-houses , and exercising themselves in all manner of vanity ? do they keep that day holy to the lord , that practise such things ? or do they not pollute it more then those dayes in which they follow their true labour ? and is not these things generally practised upon the first dayes , which is called sunday , or sabbath-day , or lords-day ? and is not more sin and vanity practised on that day , and that principally by servants and children , then all the six dayes besides ? except some day that is observed as a holy-day , in which ordinary labour ceasing , then vanity comes into agitation ; and masters and dames not eying their servants in wisdom , and to keep them in some good exercise and practise , the minds of servants hunts after vanity , and they come together , and will say one to another , come , what must we go do to day ? and is not this a sad state , for a day to be observed as a holy day , and people knows not what to do upon that day ? and so not kowning the good , they run into evil , and brings forth wicked practises after their own ungodly lusts , and some pleases themselves with one thing , and some with another , and so runs headlong into vanity ; and then if you have but a little needful business to be done , your servants are to seek , and then it may be you are angry & frets against them , and charges them with carelesness and negligence , in your business ; which in it self is true , but are not you your selves the greatest faulters , who keeps them not in subjection , to do those things which are good , and to follow that which is honest in the sight of all men ; and is not labour an honest and a just thing in the sight of all men ? and is not vanity the contrary ? for when people are in their honest labour , they are bold , and cares not who sees them , but when they are in vanity , there is a shame comes upon them when sober people beholds them , and sometimes they lurk into secret places to be out of sight when they practise vanity . and doth not the observing such dayes after such a manner , do more hurt than good every way ? is not both masters and servants wronged in the end of it , and the creation burdened with it , and gods spirit grieved ? but some may say , if servants have no liberty they would be discouraged and cast down , and their slavery would be great , if they were alwayes kept to hard labour . this doth not diminish any thing from their liberty , but adds unto it , for that which is pretended for liberty proves their greatest bondage every way ; and they are far more in bondage to their vanity , than to their labor , because the mind and delight being in it , they are not so well satisfied , as when they are in the practise of it , and if they be at any time restrained , then they are in great bondage and trouble , and so the unruly vain mind worketh over the good , and if it be not satisfied they are in bondage to their own heart , lusts ; for by their vanity and wicked practises their souls are oppressed , and there is bondage within , and by the exercise of their bodies in vanity , they will be so wearyed , as somtimes they cannot follow their labour for some dayes after , and that is bondage to the body ; then where stands their liberty , but in their vanity ? and so uses their liberty as an occasion to serve the flesh ; for if masters and dames did order their servants in gods wisdom , and if servants were kept in the fear of the lord god , then there would be as true liberty as any service might open for their liberty , and it would not stand in observing days or times , but as any needful occasion might offer it self , for the servants benefit , then they might have true liberty on their own behalf , and in their own business , as need required , and not be gainsayed , and they would not expect or desire any liberty beyond that , in any case , if they were but brought into gods fear and good order ; and they might then have liberty allowed them to serve the lord , and to wait upon him , and to exercise themselves in the worship of his spirit , at any time , or upon any day , as there might be occacasion ; and not to keep a day as a holy day , and pretend a worship to god upon that day , and prophane that day , which they pretend to keep as holy , that is not good order nor decent ; for to pretend the observation of a day , and a worship to god upon that day , and to go to a steeple-house a few hours , and observe the practise of such ceremonies as is there observed , and then to run into vanity and wickedness , the remaining part of the day , these things grieves the lord from day to day . therefore you that have servants under you , first mind the principle of god in your selves , the light of christ jesus in your consciences , and receive the testimony of it , and do not gain-say its reproof in your selves , then you will know what to reprove in your servants ; and coming to the light of christ in your selves , with the light to be guided and ordered in your own particulars , then you will be good patterns and examples to your servants ; for you being from that of god in your selves , which would guide you , and lead you into truth and righteousness , you become bad patterns to your servants : and how can you reprove or reform their evil practises in any place , when their eyes behold you in the practise of the same thing , which you in words may reprove in them ? nay , many times you exceed them in vanity and profaneness , and so are out of order in your selves , not being guided by the light which is pure : and who are convinced of profaneness , and in your selves are ordered into moderation and soberness , and have some desires after god , and sets up a practise in your families , of reading or expounding scriptures , and prayer , and singing david's psalms , which you call family duties , take heed you be not ensnared in that place , for there is a danger lyeth near , though your practise may have somthing of a shew of godliness in it , for though at first you may practise such things in some tenderness towards god , and perform them as necessary duties , and in that place standing faithful to god in what is made manifest , and not a further manifestation opened to you , your practise is not condemned in that place ; but this is the danger , when the observation of a practise centers the mind in the form of what is practised , and so in time is content with the observation of the form only ; this is a place where many loses the life and the savour of it ; and that which at first was truth in it self , in the manifestation and practice , doth in time become false , through the observation in the form only , and there the kingdom of god is not found , nor true peace enjoyed . but some may say , is not family duties good order ? yes , they are so , but not as they stand in the observation of a form only , for such a practise may be observed and continued , when there is not any thing of god to move unto it ; and that observation cannot then stand in the order of god , but in the disorderly part of mans own will , who sets his own time , and speak his own words , and in that performs somthing as a service unto god. therefore who are in this state , and would have your families come into good order in this place , keep your minds to the spirit of god in you , and wait to know the motion of it , and it will shew you the time , and will give you words ( if there be need ) in the time , and will move to prayer as there is need , and will teach you how to pray , and what to ask , for the spirit knows your infirmities , and makes intercession with groans many times , when never a word is spoken ; and when the spirit of god moves you to a duty , either on your own behalf , or the behalf of your family , in any place , then neglect not that time , but call your family together , and sit down in gods fear , and wait upon him , that in his spirit you may discharge your duty ; and then if any thing be out of order in your families , by which you are grieved , there will be a word of reproof given in the spirit ; or if there be need of exhortation , the spirit will give a word of exhortation ; and when it is a time of prayer , the spirit will move to prayer , and give words in prayer : and this will stand in gods order , and out of your own wills , and you will have comfort in it , and this will sweeten your families , and make you a good savour in your places , and the lord will be amongst you , and do you good . so in all things mind that of god in you , the light which shews sin in the conscience , and reproves the evil-doer in all his wayes , that in the light you may receive the wisdom that is pure , and in that wisdom to order all things you have in charge , to the glory and praise of almighty god. to servants in their places . you that are called to serve , be you diligent in your places , and in all things , and in every place learn to serve the lord , for that is good and acceptable with him ; and if ye serve the lord in singleness of heart , then you will discharge your duty in your places ; and have regard to your places out of the eye-service , for if you onely serve well whilst your masters eye behold you , that is but a service performed in awe to your masters eye , and is no more but an eye-service ; but if you mind the principle of god , and stand in the fear of god , then will your care and diligence be to serve the lord , and to serve your masters as in the sight of god , for the eye of the lord is alwayes present and beholds you ; and whether your masters eye be over you , or absent from you , your care should be to serve the lord , whose eye beholds you in all places , and at all times , and the intents of your hearts ; and if you have thoughts at any time to neglect your masters business , when you know that he is absent from you , is there not something in you at that time which doth manifest those thoughts unto you , and shews you that they are amiss ? that is the light of christ in your consciences , and is alwayes present to behold whatever you intend ; and if you be at any time neglecting your masters business which you are intrusted withall , and that your master come and find you so doing , are you not then judged in your selves , and stand guilty of your offence before your master ? and that which judges you and reproves you , is the light of jesus christ in your consciences , for you do bear judgment in that case , and are certainly reproved in your selves , though your master speak not a word unto you ; and unto that you are to keep your minds , that with it you may be guided in your service , and then there will be no need of your masters eye , no fear of your masters coming , for you will be found serving god in the light , and in his fear you will be doing your masters business , then you will stand clear before the lord in all things , and there will be no shame come upon you , whosoever beholds you , or takes notice of you , for man needs never be ashamed before men , that stands approved unto god in what he doth ; and if he do not stand approved unto god , then he hath a guilt upon him , and the witness of god condemns him in himself , then if men but look at him , the witness condemns him , and the shame comes over him , for he stands guilty before god though man cannot accuse him , and so in the light you will be found serving the lord , and doing your masters business justly , truly , and faithfully , as in the sight of god , and as if your masters eye were over you , and this will be a good savour both to god and honest men ; but when your minds are from that of god in you , then carelesness and negligence attends your places , and whether you serve or serve not , you are not careful , or whether you labour or labour not , you do not much regard , if your masters eye be not over you ; and here you are out of your places , and with that of god in you , which is just and true , you will in that place be reproved , and you can never be just not true indeed , but as you come to the principle of god which is just and true , with that to be guided , which in all things you are to mind , for there is not any that either rule well , or serve faithfully , but such as come to be guided by the light of christ jesus in themselves , and if you mind that when it doth at any time reprove you , then will gods fear come to be placed in your hearts , and the awe of god will be over you , and that will keep you in carefulness and diligence , to serve god and please god , and your service to your masters will be performed faithfully at all times , and in all places , whether your masters be present or absent , and you will not need to use deceit to cover your faults from your masters and dames , but in singleness of heart approve your selves to god , in all things wherein your service lyes to your masters ; for when any fault is done by you for want of taking heed to the light of christ in you , and that the light reprove you in your consciences for it , and you with the light come to see wherein you have done amiss , and that you have not performed your service faithfully to your master ; and when your master comes to blame you for it , then to seek out covers by deceit , and to forge lyes for your own defence ( though with the light you see you have done amiss ) this is a very great evil , because it doubles the offence in the sight of god ; for first to do amiss , and then to seek a deceitful cover , and make lyes your refuge in that case , this is sharply reproved with that of god in you , which is just and true , and neither the first nor the second in which you can approve your hearts to god ; though by deceit and lyes you may blind your masters eyes , and keep your selves from blame as unto him , yet the lord beholdeth you , and you cannot cleare your selves before him : and this is weighty on your parts who are called to serve , and then take heed of vanity in every place , and do not use your liberty when you have it to satisfie the flesh , nor do not seek to please your selves in foolish sports , but in the fear of the lord improve your time in his service , and when at any time you have liberty from your labour , then be serious in your minds , and take heed to that of god in you , and consider for what end that time is allowed you , that when you have it , you may improve it in some holy exercise , according to what you know , and not to spend it in ale-houses , and in sports and pleasures ; and in the light read the scriptures , you that can read , and wait to understand them , and meditate upon the good things of god , and consider what you are in your selves withour christ , and what your end will be if you dye in sin , and in the light waiting , whether you can read scriptures or no , your minds will be kept to god , and you will redeem the time which you have vainly spent : and do not close with traditions in any place , but joyn to the spirit of god in your selves , and in that worship god , and serve god , and serve your masters faithfully in your places , and be content with such things as are provided for you , grudge not at your meat nor drink , nor strive not after costly apparrel , but having food and raiment be therewith content , and be not sloathful in your business , but with a ready mind answer your places diligently , and cheerfully , so will you be a good savour in your places , and you will have comfort in the end : and be subject to your masters commands in all things that are just , knowing that you are to serve ; and do not aspire into equality with your masters , for that brings up pride and haughtiness , and is foolishness ; nor do not contemn any business , as below you , but stoop down to the lowest , and do it willingly , if you be ordered to do it ; and do not seek after new places , and fresh services , that will draw you into a restless state , and finding some differences in places , your eye will be towards that where you have best pleased your selves , and when you meet with any thing contrary in another place , then you are displeased with that , and then is ready to say , it is but a year ; and so your minds are gone from your place , before you be well come to it , and carelesness comes upon you , and your masters service is neglected by you ; and here you are not right in your places , but unsetled , and unstayed , and so would every year be removing , if not sooner , and wandring and trying ; and this is a giddy head that runs out of the fear of god ; for if you come to the light of christ in your consciences , and come to walk in the truth , you will be setled and stayed , and where you come to be placed you will not have a desire to remove , but to observe your place diligently and carefully , and let not your minds look out for ease in any place , so that you be not oppressed above your strength , for many do themselves wrong by looking out for ease , and so refuse service wholly , though able to perform it , and so falls into a way of labour of their own industry , and provides for themselves at their own hand ; and this is something that would not be under command , but would be at liberty , and at ease , which doth not answer the light of christ , neither stands approved by it . so wait for gods wisdom , that with it you may be guided to stand and serve in your places unto which you are called , and depart not from the counsel of the lord. to aged people . gravity is comely and honourable , it is worthy to be respected and reverenced , but if you count your gravity from your gray hairs onely , then you err in judgment , and do not understand what gravity is ; and from hence many are accounted grave men , and do account themselves so to be , because they have passed over many years , and by the course of nature their hairs are changed gray , and they are come into an aged state , and so you would be respected and honoured because of your gray hairs , and because of the multitude of your years , and do esteem your selves to be the chiefest in wisdom , and of the deepest understanding , and of the greatest knowledge to order things aright . now this is not the thing which makes you grave , or sets you in a right capacity for true order ; for an old man may have a strong will to advance something in his own eyes , and to set up something from his own apprehensions , and from this ground in himself he would not meet with an opposer , for he counts himself grave and wise , and of a deep understanding , and if any thing meet his will in opposition , then he is displeased , and the fretting froward nature rises in the passion ; and this manifests that he hath not the wisdome of god , that is peaceable , and so is not in the true gravity , nor in that which gives sound counsel , which is grave and honourable . therefore i write unto you old men , who have passed over many yeares , and now draw nigh to finish your dayes , and yet know not the true gravity , though you be full of gray haires for gravity is in the sound and perfect wisdom of god , by which wisdom all things were made and created , and in that is the ancien● of dayes sitting , and there is gravity , in the life , and the power , and the wisdom which created all things in right order , and beheld them very good , in that is the gravity and the sound wisdom ; therefore unto that yo● must all come , who yet do not know it , that you may feel the ancient of dayes sitting in you● with his wisdom to guide you , then will tru● gravity beautifie you , and make you honourable in your latter dayes , in which gray haires over spread you ; for look back to the beginning of your time , and behold the swiftness of the years that are past , and consider whether you have assurance of gods salvation in your latter dayes , and whether you be redeemed out of the world , with all the vain customs and traditions that be in the world , and whether you have everlasting peace sealed unto you in the covenant of god : consider this with your selves , and be serious , for it is high time for you to awake , and that the time past of your lives may suffice , in which you have wrought the will of the gentiles , and that now you may come to redeem the time which you have spent , for many of you have spent much time , but few amongst you that hath redeemed it , and through the custom which you have observed in your time , you are bound up in what you practise , and it is a very hard thing to pluck up your root , because it had a long time to spread it self in the bottom , and it is very hard to cut down your branches , they have had so long time to grow in strength ; and you having seated your selves in the depths of customes and formality , it is a very hard thing to remove you out of your habitations , and you have much to say in your own defence , and can plead the antiquity of your standing , and the multitude of your years , and so you would uphold such things as hath been accustomed to you , and you can hardly believe that any other thing can be so right and good as what you practise , and you fear your selves in this perswasion , because you are old men , and so you love your church , and you love your ministry , and you love your worship , & you can plead antiquity in your years , and for your practises , and can say , thus it hath been all my time ; but consider your present time , and how it is with you now , for many years may bring many things to pass , and that which seemed right in the beginning , may prove wrong before the end , and so you may erre in your observations and customs , for god is not limited to time or person , but manifests himself after the good pleasure of his own will , and you are to mind the present manifestation of god in you , and in that wait to know the mind of god in your present day , for regeneration must be wrought in you , or you cannot have a part in gods kingdom ; and it is a little child that is heir of the kingdom , a child born again not of flesh , nor of blood nor of the will of man , but of god , and the child is the heir , and was before your dayes , though many years you have passed over ; for before abraham was , i am , saith christ , who is the first and the last ; and here is christ before you , and christ after you , and without christ your dayes will end in sorrow , and your latter end will be grief . therefore come to his light with which you are enlightned , the light that manifests your sin , and reproves you for your observed traditions , and wait to recieve christ in his light , and do not cast his reproof behind you , then will you know the ancient of dayes , who is the first , and he will be born a little child who is the heir of promise , and of the kingdom , and life without end ; and this is gravity , when christ ruleth in man , and his wisdom governs man , then are gray hairs made comely , but it is the wisdom which is honourable , and the fullness of this age will end in joy and peace . therefore mind your day , which at the longest is but very short , and think not to say with your selves , we have lived many years , and we have seen many things , and we hope that god will shew mercy , this will not be a sufficient stress to uphold you ; nay though you may say you believe in christ , and that he is your saviour , yet in your latter end he will not stand by you , whose works deny him , for he is pure , and holy and righteous altogether , and there is no unclean thing can come into his kingdom ; therefore you must deny your old things , and your ancient customs , which you have lived in after the flesh , and believe in the light and power of christ , in which power a new birth is born to inherit the kingdom , and except ye enter the kingdom of god as a little child , you can in no wise come therein : so you must believe in the power of christ manifest in you , which is a reproving principle in your consciences , and checks you for evil thoughts , words and deeds and by believing in the power , the times past will dye , and all the observations and old customs will dye , and the world and all the things that are in it will dye , and all your old affections and lusts which you have loved and delighted in , in the world , they will all dye , and a new life you will then know in christ , and his life and his wisdom will cloath you , and then you will know the first , who is the antient of dayes to sit in you , and by his wisdom governing , and that is gravity which is honourable : so spend not your dayes any longer in customs and traditions , but make haste and redeem them , and delay not to turn to the light in your consciences , the next reproof which you will certainly feel , the next evil thought you think , or word you speak , or deed which you do ; and by turning to the light , and obeying the light , you will come to receive gods wisdom , and in that to order all things to his glory , and so to be a good savour to god , and leave a good savour behind you when your dayes are finished , for the eyes of many are upon you , because you are old men ; and if any miscarriage come to pass by you , or any thing be acted or done that is amiss in any place , then many receive strength in the same thing , and are encouraged to practise it , because they have observed the same thing to be done by you ; and this doth not honour your gray hairs , when you are a bad savour in your generation ; but it brings a stain and a blot upon your name , and you will pass away with an ill savour . so in all things be circumspect , and redeem your time , for you have but a little , that you may finish with joy . to such as live a single life . singleness is a good state , and in that state temptations may be resisted as easily ▪ as in any state whatsoever out of the life , and they that walk in the light , and with the light , are kept single every way ; they may receive much peace and satisfaction in their condition , for there is not such a necessity of outward care lies upon a single life , as upon such who are outwardly joyned ; and so temptations may be the more easily resisted in many places ; for temptations come the strongest when the mind is cumbred in much carefulness ; and there is an opportunity in that place for darkness to strike in and enter , and to be amongst the multitude of thoughts , and in thoughts cumbred in caring , in that place temptations lye neer , and proffer themselves unto that part which is cumbred in the care ; and it is a common thing amongst people that are not redeemed , nor have not faith in god , nor cast not their care upon god in every condition , to let forth their minds into much carefulness , and so into the cumber ; and in that place they are rowled up and down in the cares of this life ; and it is much nearer unto a people who are outwardly joyned , and have families of children to provide for , then it is to those that live a single life ; so that a single life is outwardly the freest state , as it stands related to its own singleness , yet not such a state as can be said is wholly free from temptations , but lyes exposed to many dangers and snares , notwithstanding it may be a single life in its own relation outwardly , and is a state which may be passed more easily through than a joyned state ; yet such have need to set their watch in the light , lest their enemy steal upon them unawares , that whilst they serve themselves through their singleness , he do not come upon them another way ; for if they stand free from care in relation to their singleness , which is a state that few come unto ; but if it be so with any , and that temptations do not point at carefulness , yet they may point at ease and security , and there may be a sitting down in an easeful state ; and being well provided for in the outward , and having enough on that hand , and no charge to look after , or to take care for , there may be a sitting down in a secret joy of their own happiness . and now mark , though temptations do not here point at carefulness , yet they point at security and ease , and being joyned unto on that hand , there is a sitting down in the fulness of what is possessed outwardly ; and so no exercise in the mind , either by faith in god , or trust in him , but an easeful state , in which state god is the soonest forgotten ; and in this place people may sit , and not have god in all their thoughts ; and therefore it is not how a single-life stands in relation to it self , but how it stands in relation to god ; for it may be single in relation to it self , and yet in that state falls into the greatest snares , and entanglements : and where there is a full state in a single life , the mind not being redeemed out of the world , there is a temptation lyes in that place ; and that part which is alive to the world , that part would heap up the worlds riches , though such a one do not know who shall possesse them ; and in this place a single life may be deeply entangled in the world with the care and deceitfulness of riches , and then by riches and wealth there is a seeking after honour and esteeme amongst men , and to be honoured because there is fulness of riches , and that exalteth into pride and haughtiness , and there may be also in such a one an eye open towards a joyned state ; and by his wealth and riches so gathered , he would be accepted into an answerable condition of the same , and so through his single life , is seeking advancement into a joyned state ; and this is a great evil and bondage : so a single life may run as far from the kingdom of god , as those that are joyned together , and have children and families to provide for ; and it is not how any man or woman stands related to a condition outwardly that makes them accepted of god , but how they stand to god with their hearts and minds in every condition : so all that be in a single life outwardly are to be careful how they stand in relation to god , and how their minds are exercised , and in what ; that whilest they are single in relation to the outward , they do not fall under the powers of darkness within , and so be taken and snared with their minds amongst many entanglements , and yet look at themselves to be freest in their single life ; for that which makes all people happy , and every condition sweet , is to answer the light of christ jesus manifest in their conscience , and then however they stand in relation to an outward state , they will have peace with god , and comfort in their places ; and whether joyned or single , the fulness of the lord god will measure forth a portion unto such , and they will possess his blessing both inwardly and outwardly ; so to be single to god in the light is a joyful state . and all you that are single in your life as to the outward , and are in some places freed from cares and cumbers , which some that are joyned may be in ; take heed of ease , and take heed of covetousness , and pride , and turn your minds to the light of christ jesus in your consciences , and with the light you will see that you have need to be careful , and to be watchful ; for except you be regenerated and born again , you are at as great a distance from the kingdom of god as those that are joyned ; but if you come to the light and power of god , with the power to be born again , then you will come into freedom by the son , and will be free indeed ; and then will your hearts and minds stand single to god , and your care and confidence will be cast upon god ▪ and his power , and life , and wisdom will cloath you ; and you will then be a good savour in your places , and will be ready to do good with that you have , and to honour god with what he gives you ; and so a single life in the outward , and a single mind to god in the inward , may here clap hands with joy : and whether single or joyned , or how people may stand related to such outward states , that doth not put a difference to the inward joy , and peace , and comfort of the lord ; but being faithfull to the light , and walking in the light and fear of the lord , and so to be born of the seed immortal of god , there is a single , upright , innocent mind known , and whether outwardly joyned , or single , the seed of god is felt , in which is the blessing . to young people . young men and women , the prime of your dayes are now present with you , and the dayes past you cannot call again , nor the dayes to come you know not ; and now as you have a present time , and a present day , mind the lord god , and his fear , that the dayes to come may not slip away from you , and end in sorrow ; for though you be naturally in full strength , and in the prime of your dayes , yet the lord can cut you down in a moment , and bring your dayes suddenly to an end , for he is god , and there is not another , it is he that formed you in the womb , and hath brought you forth in your generation , and hitherto hath prolong'd your days ; and he hath not only brought you forth in a natural generation , but he hath also placed in you a measure of light that is pure of himself , and is immortal , which in your consciences doth manifest it self in brightness , and is a true and faithfull witness for god : and this hath the lord god done for you , and therein his love is manifest unto you ; and you are to mind that principle of god which is pure , above all things , and to keep your minds stayed in it , and when you are reproved with it , then do not start aside , but close in with it ; and with its light you may behold your selves amiss , for as your minds are from that of god in you , you are exercising your full strength in vanity , and spending the prime of your dayes in folly ; and the further you go forward in that path , the longer will be your return , and the sharper will be your judgment . and what profit doth vanity bring you , when you have been in the mirth of it one day ? doth it not pass away from you the next day ? and do you not feel that reproof overtakes you , and that the witness of god in your conscience smites you , and you many times are brought to mourn in secret ? and doth not your joy and mirth in vanity here end in sorrow ? for being in your full strength , you pursue vanity with eagerness , and you sport your selves as if you could never sport enough , and the diversities of vanity your minds run into ; and with such things you grieve the lord. therefore consider your day and your present time , and spend not your full strength in vanity , and say in your hearts , god shall have our latter age ; but this is our prime time , and if we do not now rejoyce and be merry , we shall never have such a time again . this is your own way , and you please your selves in it , but know , that for all these things god will bring you to judgment . and what if he cut you down in your full strength , and in the height of your vanity ? then as death leaves you , judgment will find you , and in the grave there is no repentance . therefore , young people , consider your present day , and let all your vanity go , it will never bring comfort in the latter end ; and to live in that , and please your selves in that , which will not give you peace in the end , what is the profit you reap by it ? surely no more but the satisfying of your vain minds , which god will judge , and that is a sad state : and now your full strength being naturally upon you , and the bad nature being at liberty in you , you must needs run in the swiftest stream of vanity , and that mind seeks to please it self , and to behold it self in the excellency of its own form ; and so you adorn your bodies with costly apparel , and broidered hair , and many foolish , needless things , which are of no use nor service , but to please your haughty minds . therefore , young people ; remember your creator in the dayes of your youth , and whilst you be in your full strength , give up your selves to serve the lord , and turn to the light with which you are enlightned , and be obedient unto the light in all things , and when it reproves your vanity in any place , then love it , and part with your vanity for it , that you may walk in it , and that will reform your wayes and doings where-ever they are amiss , and will do you good in your latter end ; and by loving the light , and denying your selves to your vanity & pleasures , the light will lead you and guide you in a way that you do not know , a way of true joy and peace , where no unclean thing can walk : and this will do you good , and in the light you will have an understanding given to discern thing● that be amiss in every place , and you will come to see , that those customs your parents trained you up in , and taught you to observe , that they are all vain , and not worthy to be observed and so wherein you have been amiss , in the vain customs and traditions ; if you love the light it will reform your wayes and your doings , where they are amiss , and that will dye which you have observed out of the truth , in any custome or tradition which you have been accustomed to , and have been taught by your parents to observe ; for many young people that comes into such a custome of things in their infancy , being taught to observe them by their parents , that in their youthful dayes they are natural to them in practise ; and so young people are much wronged in their infancy , whilst they are not capable of any more then what they receive from others , and follows that in the custom and practise as a right thing , and so walks by the traditions received from their fathers , and not after christ the light , the truth , the power and wisdom of god : and therefore young people , take heed to the light , for that is the thing you must all come unto , if you come unto god , and depart out of all your vain customes , and fashions , and traditions , your pride , and vanity , and false worships , and learn of christ who is meek and lowly , that he may baptise you into his death while you are young , and that he may raise you up in his life to bear witness to his name in your generation ; so you will be a generation in time to come , and will be good patterns in your places to the young generations that are to succeed you : and as evil hath entred by disobedience , and flows into generations as a natural stream in vanity , in customs and traditions , so by christ jesus righteousness may spring and flourish , and flow in from generation to generation ; and then will all generations be blessed in their generation , and have the power and presence of god amongst them . so you coming to be ordered in gods wisdom in your generation , and walking in meekness and humbleness of mind in your generation , and in love and peace unto all people , you will then be a sweet savour in your generation , and your savour will descend to generations to come , and then will the lord delight in you , and multiply your peace and joy , and fill you with his blessing . so young people , fear the lord god in your day and time , that it may be well with you in your latter end . to children . little children , there may be many of you at present , who are not capable to receive information , which in time may grow into that state , as to be sensible of your conditions ; and as you that are not now capable do come into a capacity , let your minds be kept to that of god in you , so will you in your day come to the truth , and walk in the truth with those , which in this present time are in a capacity to be informed into it , and are made willing to receive it ; for , children , there is but one truth , and that truth is christ jesus , who through all generations is the same , and the truth is the way to god , and leads to god ; and so christ jesus is the light , the way , the truth , and the life , and there is none comes to the father , but by him ; and christ saith , learn of me , for i am meek and lowly , and you shall find rest for your souls . so you must mind the light with which christ enlightens you , which light is in your consciences , and with its light it will let you see when you think any bad thoughts , or speak any bad words , or when you do any thing amiss , if you tell a lye it will shew it unto you ; if you swear , it will let you see that you have done amiss ; if you be angry , or froward , or perverse , or hasty , the light will let you see that you should not do such things , and will make them manifest unto you to be evil ; then when you see the evil with the light , love the light that shews it ; and if you love the light , the light will guide you , and lead you in the way of peace ; and if you keep your mind unto it , and love it , then you will not walk in darkness , nor run into the evil deeds of darkness ; and this will be your peace . and upon the first dayes , which the heathen calls sunday , do not run into wicked practises , but seeing it is a day in which people do not follow their labours , be careful that in keeping of it , you keep it to the lord ; and take your books , and read in that which is good , you that can read ; and when you do not read , and you that cannot read , keep quiet , and be still , and sit in the fear of god , and do not run into vain sports , which upon that day is practised and observed , for then you will grieve god that made you , and he will correct you as disobedient children : and when you read the scriptures , read them in the fear of god , and not with a vain mind , and wait to understand what you read , for the scriptures was given forth from the spirit of god , and you cannot understand them , though you read them , and get them as they are in words into your memory , but as you come to a measure of the light and spirit of god in your selves , which is the same in you , according to measure , as was in them that gave the scriptures forth ; for the scriptures , which from the spirit of god was given forth , they are true and faithful sayings of the holy men of god , who knew god in his power , and in his life , and in his wisdom . but children , the scriptures are spoken to divers states , and lyeth in divers administrations , and yet all from one spirit given forth ; and as you read in places , then consider with your selves , what that administration is in it self , and unto what state it is spoken , and whether you can witness that state in your selves ; and as you read in the light , and wait in the light , the scriptures will open to you , and you will come to know the scriptures fulfilled in you , and then you will understand them , and have comfort in them , or otherwise they will not do you any good to read them . so when you read any place of scripture then weigh it well in your minds , and consider , whether that scripture be fulfilled in you , and how your state standeth in relation to that state which the scripture speaks of : for you may read in the scripture , that it is said , remember thy creator in the dayes of thy youth ; then consider that scripture well , and examine your selves , and try whether you remember your creator ; or forget him , for if you do evil , then you forget your creator ; if you do not walk in his fear , you do not remember him ; if you tell a lye , or be froward , or sport your selves in vanity , you do not then remember your creator , and you erre from that scripture , and from the spirit that gave it forth ; and then what good will the scripture do you to read it ? for people have read them , and heard them , and the priests have been giving meanings to them long enough ; but what better are such for reading and hearing them , or for the priests meanings either concerning them , who are from the spirit in themselves , from which they were given forth , and so knows not the fulfilling of them . and you may read in the scriptures , that christ said , i am the light of the world ; he that follows me shall not abide in darkness . then consider where you are , for if you be come to the light , and follow the light , then you dare not lye , nor swear , nor be froward , nor proud , nor heady , nor vain in any thing ; for if you live in such things , you are in darkness , and under the power of the devil , and doth not follow christ the light : then what good will the reading of the words do you ? or what is the profit which you reap by reading the scriptures , and to read that christ hath spoken such words , and to have a belief in you that the words are true , and you your selves be in darkness , and under the condemnation of the light , because you do not follow it ? you have no profit at all by reading the scriptures . again , you may read in the scriptures , that christ saith , learn of me , i am meek and lowly . now if you be heady and hafty , then you do not learn of christ ; so you are from both the scripture and the spirit ; then what do you profit by reading them ? and so of all the rest of the scriptures in their places . wait to understand the administration and the condition , and not only how it might lye to others then , but how it lyes to you now ; for the scriptures saith god resisteth the proud , and giveth grace to the humble . now there is two states spoken of in those words , and also two administrations , the one of resisting , and the other of giving , for god resisteth the one , and gives grace to the other : so to understand this in your selves ; for if you be proud , and exalted in your minds , and make your selves merry over the witness of god , then doth god resist you in that state , and you cannot come unto him , but lyes under the administration of his justice , and under the condemnation of his power ; but if you be humble-minded , and bow to the light , and obey the light , then god will give his grace unto you , and you will be partakers of the administration of his grace , and his grace will save you from the devils power , for pride is the devils work ; 〈…〉 soever your minds do advance into ; or are lifted up in , wherein you seek any glory or praise to your selves , that is the work of the devil , and is resisted of god ; but your minds being kept humble before god , that is his own work , and he doth not resist that , but gives his grace freely to it , and his grace saveth ; and then you will know that scripture fulfilled in you , where it is written , by grace ye are saved , through faith so by believing in the light , the mind with the light is kept humble to god , and he gives his grace , and by grace is salvation known through faith ; and then you will come to know that scripture fulfilled , where it is written , he that believeth is saved ; for your belief standing in the light , and you coming to obey the light , as it manifests it self in your consciences , then you come out of darkness , and out of sin , and so from under the devils power , and follows christ your saviour ; then you will know christ to be your leader ; for if you obey his light , and follow his light , then he becomes your leader ; and you will come to see what he turns your minds from , and what he leads you out of , and also what he turns your minds into , and what way he leads you in . ( so mark children , ) when you are in sin and vanity , the light of christ doth secretly check 〈…〉 ●ove you ; then standing still in obedience to the light which reproves you , the light turns your minds from the sin , and from the vanity , and gathers your minds to it self , in which there is no sin ; then you yielding to the drawings of the light , and loving the light , it leads you out of that which it doth reprove you for , and so you come from under the condemnation , and receives the mercy , and the light leads you into holiness and goodness , and justifies you . so christ turns from the sin , and then leads out of the sin , if you yield your selves to obey him ; and he also turns to that which is good , and leads to the enjoyment of it . and this is the way of peace , and this is the way where the truth is found , and where life and durable riches are possessed ; and in this state you will know christ the light , the way , the truth , and the life ; then you will know that which is good , and will live in that which is good ; and then you will be servants unto god , and not servants to the devil ; and then god will love you children , and he will shew you favour ; for all that live in sin , are servants to the devil ; all that are proud , and heady , and high-minded , all drunkards , and swearers , and lyars , and prophane persons , all that sports , and playes , and follow ; vanity , they are all servants of the devil , and that is his work they are doing , and rejoycing in , and such are out of the favour of god : but all that obey the light , when for such things it doth reprove them , and with the light comes to be drawn out of them , then they depart out of such evils , and cannot serve the devil any longer , but yields themselves servants to obey christ , and follows christ , and he leads them in humility and lowliness of mind , and he teacheth them to be sober , and to speak truth , and to do justly , and to walk always in fear before him : and when you come into this state , then you are servants of christ , and knows his power that hath redeemed you from under the power of the devil , and so you come from darkness to the light , and from the power of satan to god ; and then you know that scripture fulfilled in you , and are come to the power which remits your sin unto you ; for children , you are conceived in sin ; and though you may not have committed much sin actually , because many of you are young in years , and in the state of infancy , yet you bring the root of sin with you into the world ; ( mark , ) the root of sin is in you from your natural conception , and as you grow in your natural state ; from that root are all the evil branches nourished , and so springs up , and is manifested by you , and then sin is actually committed by you , and the guilt comes upon you , which before you was clear of , though the root of sin was in you . all people that are out of the truth , may learn what this means , though it be written to children ; for sin lies in the root from your conception ; and then you coming to be acted by the devil , who in that root is lodged , you actually commit sin , and comes under condemnation ; and by how much you actually commit sin , by so much the more doth the body of it grow and increase , and the greater the body grows , the harder it is to be broken . therefore , little children , i write unto you in much love , because many of you are yet innocent , and knows not your right hand from your left , that you in time may be careful , for in your tender years you are as young plants , easily bended , but growing up into a fuller strength , you will not so easily be made subject ; for if you come to be wrapped into the root of sin , and delight your selves in the action of it , there will be sharper judgment from the power of god rise against you , and be executed upon you and greater will your condemnation be ; for , as i said before , that the greater the body of sin is , the greater will be the judgment , and it will fall with a greater weight upon you , and the hand of the lord will be more sharp in severity against you . so do not increase your own burdens , by increasing the body of sin , for every sin actually committed by you doth add to the body of it ; but whilst you are young and tender , mind the light of the lord god , and his power in you , and you will be kept clean in your infancy , and so come to be planted into the root of life , whilst you are young , and be nourished in the love of god , and spring up as tender plants in the hand of god , and he will beautifie you with the holiness of his life , whilst you are young , and you will be unto the lord a chosen generation , and generations to come will call you blessed . and so , children , mind the love of god , for god hath much love unto you , for you are not so much defil'd with sin , as many others in whom the body of sin standeth ; and the lord would not have you to commit sin , and to defile your selves with it ; but his love is to you in christ jesus the light , that you might be cleansed whilst you are young , & be kept clean throughout your dayes ; and if you mind the lord , he will do you good , and make you a blessing in his hand , and you will be a good savour in your present generation , and so truth and righteousness will naturally flow unto generations to come , and the seed of the evil-doer with his evil branches will be plucked up , and rooted out , and the pure seed of god will spring and increase , and bring forth its natural fruit of holiness , and mercy , and all goodness ; and the glory of it will spread abroad through generations , and it will become a covering over the earth , as waters cover the sea. and now , children , you being carefull to walk in the fear of god , as you are brought forth in your natural generation , so to pass your dayes in all humility and fear , that your favour may be sweet in your generation , and that the end of your dayes may close in the righteousness and holiness of god , that the next generation which is to come may feel the sweetness of your savour , and that you may leave a sweet savour behind you in the life of god. so little children , i have briefly informed you in many places , and in much plainness i have spoken truth to your capacities , that you may feel the witness of god in your own consciences give an answer , which if you take heed unto you will do well ; therefore be carefull , and the lord god almighty give you an understanding in all things , that you may be a sweet savour to god , and honour god throughout your dayes ; so he will make you children of his kingdom , and heirs of his blessing for ever . to such as are in outward government . the wisdom of god was the first in government , and by wisdom the whole creation was brought forth in a holy order , and by wisdom was governed in its created state , and the whole universe stood subjected in that state unto wisdom's government , and there was no disorder nor confusion throughout the whole body of the creation , but every thing as it was brought forth in wisdom's time and order , so it was subjected under the power of wisdom's government ; but when man degenerated from the wisdom of god , by which all things were made and created , then he went from under the power of wisdom's government in himself , and became actually disposed in his own wisdom , and thereby lost his dominion in gods wisdom : and this was his fall , he fell from the wisdom above , that is pure , into the wisdom below , that is earthly , and sensual , and devilish ; and there the disorder came into him , which by his own wisdom he could not rectifie . and since the orderly government of wisdom hath been lost , there hath been disorder order amongst the sons of men , and so there hath been a setting up of some , who have been appointed for the work of government , and to rule with their power to keep order amongst men , and to keep them in peace one amongst another , and to preserve every man every way in his proper state wherein he outwardly is placed : and in this place moses was appointed and set to govern israel in the wisdom of god ; and it is said , that moses was the meekest man upon the earth , and he governed israel in meekness , and in wisdom , and was a magistrate for good unto them ; and the law that was given him of god , he was faithfull in the execution of it , and the transgressor came under his power , and the righteous was set free , for the law was not made for them , neither did moses execute it upon them . and in those dayes true justice had a free course from the wisdom of god in moses , and he was a praise to them that did well , and a terror to the evil-doers : and here he had the sword placed in his right hand , and it went over the head of the transgressor , and brought the transgressor into subjection : and this was true judgment , and righteous , and the execution of the righteous law , stood in the righteous principle of god , which principle did endue moses with wisdom and with meekness to govern . and the scriptures mention divers governments , which in ages past have been set over the people , and some of them ruled in righteousness , and under them the people had peace ; and some that ruled in cruelty , and in their dayes the people had trouble ; and such rulers turned against the righteous , whom they should have protected ; and then there was a complaint that justice was turned backward , and equity could not enter , and that justice was fallen in the streets , and that the righteous was become a prey ; ( mark , ) the righteous was become a prey , and such were wicked that made a prey upon the righteous . and these things came to pass , either as the rulers received the wisdom of god , or contemned it ; for without the wisdom of god , it is not possible that any should rule for god , or should decree judgment in righteousness , or minister it with a good understanding ; for solomon , who was endued with wisdom , and ruled in wisdom , whose memory doth not perish , but is a good savour this day , he saith , the fear of the lord is to hate evil , pride , and arrogancy , and the evil way , and the froward mouth do i hate . counsel is mine , and sound wisdom : i am understanding , i have strength . by me kings reign , and princes decree justice ; by me princes rule , and nobles , even all the judges of the earth . i love them that love me , and all that seek me early shall find me , prov. . now mark , the fear of the lord is the first step into true government , and the fear of the lord is to hate evil , pride , and arrogancy , and the evil way ; so both the evil , and the evil way must be hated but where such are in government as do practise evil , and delights in evil , and walks in the evil way , and in pride , and arrogancy , then they do not walk in the fear of the lord , and so are not come into the first step of true government , for such cannot have the counsel , nor found wisdom , nor understanding , nor strength , and such can never be a terrour to the evil-doers , who love the evil way themselves ; neither can they be a praise to them that do will , until they hate the evil , and the evil way in themselves . so it is the weighty matter to get wisdom ; and wisdom proffers her self in kindness to all that seek her early , and makes a promise that she will be found of such ; they that seek me early shall find me ; i love them that love me : this is wisdom's voyce , but the evil-doers regard it not , neither do they seek her , or love her ; for , the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom , and the fear of the lord is to depart from evil : then where the evil is loved and practised , where pride and arrogancy is advanced , wisdom is not sought nor regarded ; and such cannot decree and establish their laws in righteousness , for in wisdom alone is the true order and government , it is by wisdom that kings reign , and princes decree justice . so all ye rulers , by what name soever distinguished , let it be your care and diligence to get wisdom , seeing that without wisdom no decree can stand approved unto god ; and therefore it s of the greatest concernment to get wisdom ; for riches and honour are with wisdom , yea durable riches and righteousness ; her fruit is better than gold , and her revenues than choice silver ; she leads in the way of righteousness , ( mark ) wisdom leads in the way of righteousness , and in the midst ▪ of the paths of judgment , that she may cause those that love her to inherit substance , and fill their treasures : and here is wisdom , and her portion to her children , a portion that is durable and everlasting ; and this is a flourishing state , and a standing government ; but without wisdom every throne stands unstedfast , and all nations are like the waves of many waters . therefore ye rulers , consider , and lay it to heart , both all that are present , and all that are to come , for this is to generations ; and you that are present mind your day , time is precious , and but a little remains unto you ; therefore turn to that of god in you , for you cannot be free from its reproof ; it is a principle that doth not respect your persons , for it is in it self the most worthy , noble , and honourable , and no man is truly honourable but in it , though outwardly he may be set on high ; it doth not regard any man for his greatness , but reproves him for his sin , how mighty soever he be amongst men ; this principle which is of god in man , hath a sure testimony against that man which doth evil , and faithfully reproves him in his conscience without regarding his greatness : and this is the light of jesus christ , with which you are enlightned , the light that is present with you every where and in every place , beholds your thoughts when you are upon your thrones ; and when you are together in counsels , and upon your seats of judgment , the light is with you and amongst you , and is in your consciences a witness for god , and if you err from it your decrees can never be established , for there is nothing can stand but that which is of god ; and from hence proceeds the works of mens own wisdom , who decrees statutes , and executes judgment , and not in the counsel of god , their power and strength hath been overturned , and their decrees hath come to nought ; and so shall it be henceforth and for ever , saith the lord , who doth all these things . therefore if you desire that your work may stand , and that it may not be rooted out and come to nought , then mind the light of christ in your consciences , in which light the wisdom of god is received , and you minding the light with the light to be guided , it will lead you in the way of sound judgment , and bring forth truth and righteousness , which god is setting up , and with his arm defends it ; and so in the wisdom of god you will stand in your right places to rule ; for the counsel of the lord is amongst such as receive his wisdom , and he gives his counsel in his wisdom ; but such as are out of the fear of god , they are far off from wisdom's path , and so cannot walk in the way of true judgment ; and such as do not hate the evil , and the evil way , but loves the evil , and the evil way , and the evil-doer , they are far off from wisdom's path , and have more need to be ruled , than to be rulers , for they can never decree judgement in righteousness , nor minister it in truth ; then the sword goes backward every way , and turns against such as it should protect , and protects such as it should fall upon , and so both the decreers and administrators are out of wisdom's path , and can never keep good order under their government ; and though some decrees might formerly stand right in their places , as they were decreed in relation to an outward government , and at that time might be justly executed upon such as were principally intended ; yet the execution of such laws now may be perverted , and by those that are to minister them may be wrested out of their proper place ; and when the ministers of such lawes do put them in execution , touching any matter which may relate to the consciences of people , though that law may stand right in its place , as it was decreed , yet the execution of that law otherwise ministred , than by that law was intended , that execution and judgement doth not run in wisdom's stream ; and in this place there be many lawes diverted , and in the execution is wrested out of their place , and in the practise of the law there are many false streams crept in , which by the law it self was never intended ; and so in many cases honest people are wronged , who are made the only objects of the eyes of the administrators of the law , against whom the law it self doth not appear intentionally ; and here justice is turned backward , and the righteous is made a prey , and both the execution of some lawes , and also the practise in them are perverted , and poor men they are wronged , and know not which way to do themselves right by the law , though they be free to use the law ; for first , being imbodyed in an unknown tongue to most men , they are not in a capacity to understand them ; secondly , the head of them being onely at one place , poor men cannot attend their own business , but are forced to employ and entrust strangers with it , who many times prove negligent , and for want of care on their part , many poor men suffer loss : thirdly , the many curiosities that stand in the practise of the law , which by poor men cannot be attained , and so are constrained , if they make use of it , to buy it at an unreasonable dear rate ; which if the fountain and the stream did spring and issue forth in the wisdom of god , it might be otherwise , and might every way be reduced into better order : but touching the practise , there is something opened more fully in divers cases , in a book entituled , the standing truth . so let every man in his place be diligent , that you may redeem the time that is past ; and from high to low , who have a hand in any place to rule , take counsel of the lord in all you do , whether it be in decreeing , or executing , and let not any law be decreed , or stand in force that is decreed , which in any place may bind the conscience , but break them down , and lay them waste , for they bring distress and sorrow every way ; for many innocent people come under hard usage in outward sufferings by them , and such as makes them , and executes them , they come under the hand of god , and his rebuke , and in that place they do themselves most wrong ; for they go heavily in themselves , whilst judgement is their cup to drink , and it doth assuredly fall , and will remain for ever , without speedy repentance . so to be in the wisdom of god is a high state , such are in a capacity to rule , for they fear the lord , and hate both the evil , and the evil way , and in the wisdom of god they are worthy of honour , and the hearts of the innocent can give it them , and they will not expect any thing more ; and in the wisdom good order is brought forth amongst all people , and love , and peace , and unity will grow and spring under that government , and universal peace will spread over all the earth , in the universal love of god , then kings will reign , and princes decree justice , and the vine will over spread , and there will be a sitting down under it without fear . and now , o ye rulers , be wise in your places , for the concernment is great unto you ; there is one above you whose judgment is true for ever , he is king of kings , and lord of lords , strong and powerful is his arm , who dwells in the heavens that is higher than all , and in his hand you are but as potters clay : therefore fear before him , and wait for his wisdom , that you may bring all things into right order , in such places and matters as you have power to order , that quietness and peace may be setled , and the issue of blood stopped , that so you may get your selves a name , which unto generations to come may be a good savour ; but if you seek not the lord in your day , and set not his fear before your eyes , then will your names fall , and the remembrance of them will cease in your generation ; therefore , again i say unto you all , who are in government this day , prize time while it is present . to ministers of parishes , so called . to be an able minister of the spirit , is a place to be honoured and esteemed , for such doth labour truly in the word and doctrine , and what is made manifest in the spirit , and from the spirit declared , such a one is a true minister , not of the letter , but of the spirit , and such doth not speak words which mans wisdom teacheth , but in the demonstration of the spirit , and in power ; and here stood their preaching , who were endued with power and wisdom from on high , and in that went forth to gather the scattered , and the dispersed both of jews and gentiles , and to bring them into one spirit ; and they did not go forth until they had received power , and were endued with wisdom from on high ; but they were to tarry at jerusalem , and wait for it , and in waiting for it the gift came upon them , and they received it , and were able ministers in it ; then they having received the power and wisdom from on high , in the power and wisdom they received their message , and there was a necessity layed upon them to preach that unto others , which they had received of god ; and they were the good stewards of the manifold grace of god ; and these were sent of god to proclaim the glad tidings of peace through the gospel , and that jews and gentiles might be converted and turned unto god , who were seperated and alienated from his life , and they went forth in the joy of gods salvation , and preached salvation by jesus christ , and declared the glad tidings of the gospel of peace ; and in the power and wisdom which they had received of god , they were made manifest to every mans conscience in the sight of god , and there was no enticing words amongst them , but plainness of speech as became the gospel : and these were true ministers , who sought the salvation of souls , and preached jesus christ the salvation of god ; these were moved in the power and wisdom which they had received , to travel in hunger , and cold , and nakedness , and perils ; and to suffer and endure stripes , and buffetings , and bonds ; and as they were ordered in the power , so they went from place to place , and from city to city , and from country to country , to make known the glad tidings of salvation , and to preach the gospel of peace ; and in this stood their service for god , and they gathered many unto god , who where alienated from him ; and when jews and gentiles had received their message , then they were converted and turned unto god , and came to believe in jesus christ , and to know his salvation ; and then they did not abide amongst the unconverted jews and gentiles , but come out from amongst them , and came into unity , in the spirit , and in the truth , and came into the faith of christ , and were true believers ; and so they met together in the fear of the lord god , and worshipped him in his spirit , and in his truth , which they had received ; and when they thus met together , then the church was met together , and christ the wisdom of god was amongst them , and ordered them in the performance of all their services , and he had the preheminence in all things , and in the motion of his power and wisdom they preached , and they prayed , and they edified and comforted one another , and there was no limitation of the spirit amongst them , but whether son or daughter , in whom the spirit moved , they performed the service faithfully , as the spirit required , and if any thing was revealed to another that sat by , the first was to hold his peace ; and this was the church-order , where christ the wisdom of god , had the government and the preheminence . and here was the true church , and the true church-order , in the wisdom of god , here where no parishes , nor parish-churches ; here was no set maintenance in particular places , but a free declaration of gods eternal love , by jesus christ ; and they preached the gospel freely , and neither money nor price was expected for it ; and this was found preaching , and praying , and worshiping ; and they had the power and presence of god amongst them , and they rejoyced in his salvation , and drunk the cup of his blessing freely : and these ministers were not by man , nor of man , but by the revelation of jesus christ , ( mark , ) by the revelation of jesus christ , and christ revealed the things of god freely , and he said , freely ye have received , freely give ; and they were faithful to his command , and did not enquire how they should be outwardly provided for , but they trusted the lord , and it was well with them ; so did they gather flocks , and the flocks gave them milk ; they planted vineyards , and the vineyards yielded them fruit , and they did eat the fruit of their own labour joyfully , and were truly contented ; this was a pure gospel-ministration , and these were true and faithful ministers of it , whom the lord god sent forth in his living power , with the message of eternal life ; and they preached the gospel , and did live by the gospel , ( mark , ) they that preached the gospel did live by the gospel ; this was pure refreshment and nourishment unto their souls , and the river of living waters did flow out of their bellies , and was a refreshment to many thirsty souls in that day . but oh ye ministers of parishes ! how are you degenerated from this living way , and from this glorious dispensation of the love of god to the sons of men ? what is the message that you have received ? and what is the tidings which you bring unto people ? and what is the practise that you observe ? oh that you would once lay it to heart , and consider it seriously ! how many in all your time have you converted unto god ? and how many have you brought to the faith in christ jesus ? and what is the peace that is reaped by your gospel ? how many sit complaining for want , who yet know not the salvation of god , but sit mourning and cannot find a resting place ? your balm doth not heal , your water doth not refresh ; you are unskilful physitians at the best , and you cannot relieve a distressed soul , you do not receive your gospel freely , but spend some years before you get it , and with great summes of money you come to obtain it , and so it is your own , and not the lords ; and his way you do not know , but have invented your own devices , and sell your gospel for what you can get , and preach it at the greatest advantage to your selves , and so you buy and sell , and reap the profit : but what doth the soul reap by your ministry ? and where is the refreshment that supplies the needy ? poor souls may cry and mourn under you , and never meet with satisfaction from you . oh , grief and sorrow , that proud , heady , high-minded men should be appointed for such a service , and should be maintained after such a manner , when they are so far degenerated from the life and truth of god in themselves ! and what sadness it is to innocency , to see many thousands of people carried away with their windy doctrine , which in the cunning craftiness they have invented , and with ●hat deceives poor people , and tosses their minds to and fro at their own pleasures : if you that are ministers will but look into your selves , and into your practise , you may behold ( though your eyes are very dim ) that you are exceedingly degenerated from the way of truth , and gospel-ministers , and also the gospel it self . therefore be not obstinate and rebellious in your minds , but submit to the reproof of the lord jesus christ , for his ministers you are not , neither do ye bring true tidings of him , and therefore you are reproved by him , which he would not do if you were his , and it would be better for you to look into your own houses , and make things sure at home , before you take upon you to preach to others ; for you that have not the joy of gods salvation in your selves , can never bring others to sit downe in it ; and every wise man would know his own standing to be safe before he go forth to build up others , for if you your selves be cast away whilst you are preaching to others , what will the end of your labour be ? and what will be your reward ? surely much grief and sorrow . therefore consider your present time , and think not to say with your selves , we are christs ministers , and it will be well enough with us ; this will not bring peace in the latter end ; for both you and your hearers must all come to that of god in you , before you come into peace with god , and you must know a war against the corruption that imbondages gods creation : there is much work to be done in you , before you can come into peace with god ; there is a body of self stands in you , which you must deny in every place , and there is a daily cross to be taken up , and a strait gate to enter , before you can know your peace sealed . and where is the man amongst you that is willing to deny himself for christ ? he that hath hundreds a year for his preaching , let him deny himself in that place , and manifest his love to christ : but this is a hard saying to the easeful part , that would feed upon the fat : and if you were following in some other places , yet this would put a stop to many of you , and you would rather chuse to draw back from christ , than to part with your great livings for him : and what a distance doth this make betwixt you and christ , consider , and how far off you walk to pure gospel-order , or gospel-ministers . it is the light of the lord that is the way of truth , the light that is pure , with which you are enlightned , and that light you must come unto in your own consciences , and own its manifestation , and obey it , or unavoydably it will be your condemnation ; for none can be saved , but in the light with which christ jesus enlightens them ; and if you outstand the manifestation of that light , you are undone for ever ; but if you turn to it , love it , and obey it , then it may go well with you , though you have very much to account for ; for your sins , if considered , are the heaviest of many others , and the seed of god bears the burden of them ; for you do not only erre your selves , but you are the cause that makes many others to erre with you , and with the dark devices of your imaginations , you keep them closed within your deceit ; so that you have the weight of others to bear in divers places , and this will be too heavy for you , except you speedily re●●●●● and surely the lords compassion is much manifested in sparing you until this time ; how many offences doth his love cover ! and how many faults doth he behold in you ! and yet passeth by , and doth not exercise severity , though with his light he reprove you in every place , where you are amiss . and by this you may know that you are none of christs ministers , for whom he sends forth he justifies , but who runs when he sends them not , such he doth condemn ; and you may be sensible that you are reproved in many things , and guilt doth fall upon your consciences in many places , for the light is a swift witness against all that you practise as ministers , it doth not allow of you nor your practise in any place for you have not received the power and wisdom from on high , but have received your message from your inventions , and you preach it for your own profit ; and here you run when the lord sends you not , and speaks when he doth not open your months , and sets your time when he doth not appoint it ; and how can you in those things stand justified ? surely you are the farthest amiss of all people , because you pretend a spiritual office , and to have understanding in divine mysteries , and from thence are set up to be teachers of others , when you have never known the work of gods power to change you from your carnal state , and so knows not divine mysteries revealed by jesus christ , nor are not set up by him to proclaim the gospel of his peace : and therefore in these things you say you are what you are not , but are found lyars , as some was in times past , who said they were apostles , and were not , but was found lyars , and no lye is of the truth , but with the truth is reproved ; and a lye is a bad message in the mouth of a minister , and yields a bad favour amongst honest people , to say you are that which you are not , and to say you are sent of god , when you are not , and to say you preach the gospel , when you do not , neither indeed can ye in the state of your carnallity : were it not better for you to speak the truth , and not to lye ? and whether you had not need to repent of these things ? consider in time ; for the scriptures declares that the devil is a lyar , and that he hath been so from the beginning , and that he is the father of lyes , and all lyars must be cast into the lake . and this may make you tremble to consider , who say you are ministers of christ , and are not , but are found lyars ; let not that proverb be used any more amongst you , nor do not report such things of your selves any more , for you are fathomed with the light , and with the light you are made manifest ; and being seen with the light to be so far amiss , you are pityed ; and from the same is this written unto you : and though in some places it meet you with sharp reproof , yet it is in love to your souls , and in the love there is much coveted and passed by , which doth belong to you : but what is written is written to inform you wherein you are amiss in many things , and also that you might turn to the light of christ in your day , and receive the testimony of the light in your own consciences , and hear the voyce of christ within you , and love it when it reproves you , for there is a message of love from god in the reproof , and by that you may know he would not have you perish , for he reproves the evil , that you may turn from the evil and forsake the evil , out of which the light will draw you , if you stand still and obey when reproof cometh ; and if you do but receive this pure principle of light which is manifest in your consciences , which is the light of christ jesus ; then you must come down into his sufferings , and be made conformable unto his death , and be buried with him in baptism , and then your raising up will be in his power , and in his life , and you will know the gospel in him , and the peace of the gospel through christ unto you , and the joy of his salvation in your own bosoms ; and then will his life be as a well of water , and the streams of his love will overcome you to love him again ; and then you will know what the necessity is to preach the gospel , and to proclaim the glad tidings of it unto others that want it : and there is the true ministry in the spring , and in the vertue of his own life ; and then you will know neither money nor price can buy it , neither money nor price is to be paid for it : and this makes able ministers , whose state it is not of the letter , but of the spirit ; for in this power and wisdom that is in christ jesus , stands the true ministry , and whatsoever is not of this is false and reproved ; and if this you come unto , then you will know that you receive your message from him , and that you are sent of him , and his love constrains you to proclaim the glad tidings of salvation , which in your selves you know to be in christ ; and this will stop your own mouths in every place , and you dare not open them to speak of god and christ , but as a necessity is laid upon you , and as the love constrains you : and so you must first learn silence , and stop your mouths from speaking your own words , and keep your feet from running your own way , and come to know christ your own teacher whithin you , and learn the divine mysteries of his kingdom , before you undertake the office of ministers ; and if you do not come to this , you are dead whilst you live , and are but as so many withered branches of a dead root , which yields no fruit unto god. therefore be wise in time , and receive instruction , and chuse wisdom before riches , and get wisdom before great livings , and come out of your parish-churches , and out of all your formal practises , and worship no longer the works of your own hands ; but deny your selves in every place , and answer the light in obedience , and take up the dayly cross and follow it , so will the power crucifie your wills and wisdoms , and empty you of all your old things , and cleanse you from your defilements , and then will new things spring up in you , and a new heart and mind will be placed in you , and a new tongue will be given you , and translation will be perfected by the hand of the almighty , and through regeneration you will come to know the kingdom , and then you will not set up the kingdom in words and observations , but in your selves will feel it to be righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy ghost ; and then you will know settlement in the kingdom , which is a better inheritance then your settlements in parishes ; and except you be regenerated and born again , you cannot enter into the kingdom of god ; and that you are not yet regenerate is evidently manifested through the old things that are yet alive in you , with which you are carried about and tossed , and rouls in the air as clouds of darkness , that eclipses the brightness of the sun's glory : and so you are wandring stars in the changable motions of your own wills ; but who are fixed in the same stands firm for ever . mark that , and learn it , for if you be not born of god , you are yet in the flesh , and in the flesh dwells no good thing , neither can any in the flesh please god who is a spirit ; and all flesh is grass , and the glory of it as the flower of grass ; the grass withereth , and the flower thereof fadeth away , but the word of the lord endures for ever . therefore let all flesh be silent before him . and there be many that have seen an end of all flesh , and are come to the word of the lord , that endures for ever ; and they are taught by the word , and edified and comforted in the word , and they know every strange voice , and cannot follow a stranger , and they are set in the kingdom which changeth not , and inherits the peace of the kingdom , and such cannot observe your formal observations , nor drink of the streams of your poluted fountain , for they have sweet water in the spring of blessing , and their souls rejoyce in the river of god : therefore ye ministers of parishes , give over your ministry , and stand still , and behold what god is bringing to pass this day ; for he is bringing a famine upon your land , and desolation upon your countrey , and he is laying waste your habitation , and spoyling your goodly buildings ; and he is bringing forth his own work , and spreading abroad the glory of his wisdom , and his own seed reigneth , and his sure defence is stretched forth over it , and no weapon formed against it shall prosper : therefore be you silent . to such as practise in the nations law. christ jesus is the law-giver , and his law is holy , and just , and righteous ; and this law is good if it be used lawfully , it takes hold upon all transgressors , and goes over the transgressor in judgement ; and this is a pure administration of judgement , when christ sits upon his throne , who judges right in every place : and this judgement must every man come unto in himself , before he can minister true judgement unto others ; for untill man come to the judgement of god in himself , and know judgement brought forth unto victory , how can he sit upon the throne of true judgement ? or how can he be in a capacity to minister true justice unto others ? it is not possible ; for man as he is in himself , can never answer the mind of god ; and whilest he remains unregenerated , he is but himself , and is a carnal man , filled with carnal reason , and a carnal mind ; and that part can never minister true judgement , because it doth not know the things of god ; and until the things of god be perfectly known , there is errour in judgment ; for it is not possible that any man should judge in truth , who is not come to the truth in himself ; and none doth come to the truth in themselves , but who comes to the light with which they are enlightned , which light is christ the law-giver , and that which is not received in this principle , and executed in this principle , it is not of christ , but of man ; and so men do make laws , and puts them in execution after the manner of their own wisdoms , and in their own way , when christ the wisdom of god is not known amongst them ; neither have they his counsel with them , either in making them , or executing them . and though some laws , in some particular cases , may be intentionally good , according to the knowledge of those that makes them ; yet through the execution of them they are many times perverted , and a wrong use is made of them , in the wills of such as have power to execute them ; and by such practises there is wrong done many times unto those unto whom the law intendeth right ; and there is also many laws , which in themselves do err from the good and sound principle of truth , and do not stand consistent with the present manifestation of truth in this day , nor with the present temper and constitution of men ; for that which in ages past might stand answerable to the constitution of that present generation , wherein they had their institution , yet the continuance of them , and the practise in them , in generations following may not so fully answer the present time then , as in the time when they were first instituted ; so that through the execution of such laws , out of their time and place , do many times fall heavy upon some , which was never intended by such as first instituted them ; so that every geneneration is to be ordred and governed by such laws as may answer the present temper of men , and the present manifestation of truth in that present generation ; for to bind any mans conscience now by such laws as were made hundred years ago , is to set bounds to the spirit , and to limit god if it were possible ; and then for such laws to be put in execution by men who can search no further than the letter of the law directs them , this is a practise that stands onely by tradition , and not from any present manifestation of god through which true judgment is ministred . and this makes the yoke to be grievous upon the necks of innocent people , where old laws do stand in force , touching the conscience in any place ; and it is not reasonable , that such laws that were made in years past , should in this day be executed upon any people in point of conscience , and that for this reason , because there is no limitation of god , but he manifests himself through ages and generations , according to his pleasure ; and if ages past did make laws which might relate to things different amongst them in point of conscience then , yet that is not a sufficient ground to continue that law in force , and to put it in execution in relation to the conscience now , or in ages that do succeed ; because the lord may make known himself in a more fuller manifestation in this age , then in ages past ; and every man is to be faithfull to the present manifestation of god in his own day ; and therefore not reasonable by any old law , to suppress him from the exercise of his conscience towards god , nor to bind him to any thing , of which he is not convinced through the present manifestation of truth in himself ; and besides , it is not reasonable that men should make laws in their present generation , which may in any case relate to the consciences of any people , because in the same generation there may be divers manifestations of truth according to measure ; and for any law to be made , and executed upon such as differ in judgment , and practise from those that have the present power , it is not reasonable , because such as may come under the punishment of that law , may stand faithfull to god in that which he makes manifest to them in that day ; and therefore not reasonable to make a law to punish them for their obedience to god , nor to put that law in execution against such a people . therefore , ye that rule this day , consider it , and all that practise in the law , weigh things coolly , that you may come to know christ jesus the law-giver , whose light is manifest in all your consciences , which gives true judgment in you upon all transgression ; and you must come to the light , with the light to be guided , before you can come to the true judgment-seat , for whilst the light is contemned by you , you judge , and judge amiss , and so punishes the innocent , and lets transgressours go free ; and not understanding the things of god in your selves , you call light , darkness ; and truth , error ; and good , evil ; and not discerning , you proceed in judgment against the truth , as if it were error ; and because you call it so , you conclude it is so , and from that ground give your judgment against it . and was not this the rash conclusion of the jewes , who said that christ was a deceiver , and a prince of devills ; now their saying so , did not make christ the wisdom of god to be so ; yet having said it and concluded it in their dark minds , they made a law , and then they said , we have a law , and by our law he ought to die , and by that law they condemned and crucified the holy and the just one , and spared a murtherer , now whether was this law and the execution of it right on their parts , who acted in it ? i tell you nay , for christ jesus was the light , and the truth , and the life and the power , and the wisdom of god amongst them , though they closed their eyes , and stopt their eares , and hardened their hearts against him , and so spake reproachfully of him , and by wicked hands crucified him . and so it is needful for you to consider , lest seeing , you see not , and lest by thinking you see , you be blind , and so stumble at the light which would do you good , and turn against the truth it self under the name of error . and this is for you to consider in seriousness , both high and low that are concerned in the execution and practise of the law , that you may stay your judgment in such cases as pertain to the conscience , and let that thing alone , for it is peculiar unto god , and it doth not at all belong unto you , nor to your places , for in this case every man must stand or fall to his own master ; and you may condemn a man in this case by your law , when the lord justifies him and cleares him in his own conscience from all offences ; and doth not the scripture say , it is god that justifieth ; who shall condemn ? and who shall lay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? now if you charge gods elect , and condemen them by your law , may not you be called in question for so doing ? and may it not be said , who are you that doth thus ? it is god that justifieth ; and surely he doth justifie all his elect and chosen ones , who of his seed are born . but this is a mysterie to you , and if you turn to the light of christ , it will shew you , that the conscience of another is without the compass of your laws , and all judgment that you give in such cases is but from things that do appear , and you are not to judge according to the appearance , but to judge righteous judgment , and that is the judgment brought forth in the principle of god , which principle finds out the heart , and lays judgment to the line , and righteousness to the plummet ; and so begins at the bottom , and cleanses out the corrupt ground in the heart ; and this is true judgment and righteous . but you are judging things that do appear , and so one sets up , and another pulls down , and one crys lo here , and another cryes lo there , and one is for one form , and another for a contrary form , and your difference lyes about forms onely , and your judgment goes forth against such as differ from your form : and this is your own judgment , which the lord rebukes ; for the principle of god is a heart-searcher , and doth not judge according to the appearance only : and this principle is within every one of you , and with it you may see how you stand in practise every way , and how your minds are disposed , and what is the intents of your own hearts , for there is much wrong done to an innocent people through these things , which , in some particular cases in matter of practise , is mentioned in a book , entituled , the standing truth , which i shall here pass by , for i now speak more generally , and in the universal love of god , in which i have much pity to all sorts of people that are out of order in their places , who have not the wisdom of god to guide them in what they are called unto , and so run in confusion and disorder in what they practise , and giving judgment of things in their own way , which is not approved in the sight of god. therefore ye rulers and lawyers , keep your watch at wisdoms post ; and if you would flourish in your dayes , and leave a good savour behind you when your dayes are finished , then receive wisdom in the light , with which you are enlightned , turn your minds thither , and be diligent , that so the judgment of the lords power may go over the transgressing part in your selves , and that the spirit of judgment and burning may cleanse your old habitations in every place ; then you will know christ in you , and the law which proceeds out of his mouth , which law is holy , and righteous , just and good , and you will know his throne of true judgment , and behold him sitting upon his throne in your selves , and judging down all your evil thoughts , words , and deed ; then you will know the law-giver , and the hand that executes it in righteousness upon the transgressour ; and there is , christ the wisdom of god felt and known , in which wisdom deep matters are found out , and the secret things which lyes hid in the heart they are discerned , and judgment goeth forth against the transgressor . and this makes rulers wise in their several places , and fills them with gravity and sound judgment , and makes them honourable in their generation , and in wisdom good order will be brought forth amongst you , which now is wanting for want of wisdom ; for if the practise in your law was traced thorough , how many by-paths might you be found in who are concerned in it , surely very many , and being many , you smother them amongst your selves by your own practise , and being so that the practise lyes amongst your selves , you can answer one another in your own wayes , and there is none can discern you ; but who walks in the light of the lord , which makes all things manifest , and sees thorough the hidden things of darkness . so be wise in your day , as becometh men , be sober and moderate , and coole and quiet in your places , that is comely amongst men , and receive christ jesus the wisdom of god ; thus you may be a good savour in your generations as becomes christians , and that the meek , pure , holy humble , righteous principle of god in you , may dispose you in the power and wisdom of it self , and change you into the purity of its own nature , and that it may manifest the vertue of its own life , and bring forth its own fruit in all godliness , justice , mercy , equity , and truth ; so will your names abide , and ages to come will feel the sweetness of your savour ; but if you reject the wisdom of god , and yet go on in your own way , a blot will fall upon your names , and ages to come will tread upon you as not worthy of remembrance , and god will raise up others to do his work . therefore in your day mind the lord , and his fear , and be just in all things , and let not gifts blind your minds , nor rewards turn away your eares from the poor ; cast bribery behind you , and tread covetousness under your feet ; for whilest such things are entertained , true judgment must needs be perverted , and in that place your own souls lyes in bondage to corruption , and you are destitute of gods salvation , which is the saddest state that any man can be in ; for the soul is of more value than all the world , and a wise man loves his own soul , and waits to know the redemption of it , which cannot be redeemed by any corruptible thing , as gold and silver , though you had never so much of it , but with the precious blood of christ jesus ; and what will it profit you to be in great dignity , and high in honour amongst men , and to possess much of the worlds riches , nay , if you had all the world , and lose your own souls ? you are undone for ever , and surely your way doth tend to the chambers of death . therefore i say again to you all , be wise in time , and look to your particular places , and let the streams of honesty and equity run amongst you , and do not pervert things which in themselves are honest , but follow the thing that is good in all you practise , that you may have peace in your latter end. to such as trade in weights and measures . an equal balance with a just weight is approved of god , and a true measure in all things is a good favour unto god , and in such just and equal practises god is well pleased , and his name his honoured ; for that which is just and equal and honest , that yields a good savour ; when every man and woman walks with a conscience void of offence towards god and men , and deals justly and equally with every man they have dealings with in their places , this is comely and commendable amongst men , and is justified before god , and it keeps the conscience cleare from stain and guilt , and brings true peace to every man whose practise stands in any place : for when every man answers his place faithfully unto god , then doth he possess the peace of god. and if people do not deal justly and equally in their respective places , they cannot have peace with god ; for if they do not answer their places faithfully as unto god , they erre from their calling , and goeth out of their place in which god hath placed them : if they have deceitful weights and measures , and an unequal balance , and do not yield the full weight and measure to every man they deal withal , they do not answer their places faithfully , for the lord appoints unto men their places in their callings , and he makes some capable of one place , and some of another , and doth require of every man faithfulness in his place ; and if he do not perform his place faithfully , then he grives the lord ; if he do not strive in singleness to perform his place faithfully , his conscience doth offend both god and honest men , and in that place the peace of god cannot be his portion ; for the light of the lord in his own conscience doth pursue him , and is a swift witness against him : if he have an unjust weight , and ballance , or measure , and thereby defraud , and cozen , and deceive such as he deals withall , he stands with a guilty conscience before god , and receives judgement from the righteous principle of god in himself ; for all deceit , and fraud , and guile , and cozening , and cheating , and dissembling is in the fall , and with the light of christ jesus is reproved , and with the light you may see in your selves , when you deal falsely , either in weight or measure , or any other way : then consider what that is which discovers it , for it cannot be any thing of self , because self seeks the advantage by such dealings ; then it must needs be something of god that discovers it , and reproves it , and it is the light of christ which doth so make manifest your dealings in every place ; and with the light you may see when you intend to defraud by your false weights and measures , and your unequal ballance , and when you do not allow weight and measure in such things as you deal withall in your trading , and you may see that it is not right on your part when you stand in any deceivable practise , and is defrauding and cheating of others ; neither can you have peace with god in that place , for god doth not allow of any thing , but that which is just and equal ; and if any of you act or do otherwise , with the light in your conscience you will be reproved , and by that you may know when you transgress , and sin against the lord ; and when you seek to please your selves , and to gain to your selves by defrauding another any way , or in any thing , either by an unjust weight and ballance , or measure , and you may see when your hand would deal deceitfully in weight or measure ; and you may see that you have not a sound and right mind in that thing , but a covetous end which would get profit any way . and how much are these things practised this day amongst men , who are from the principle of god in themselves , and are not come to know it to be their guide , nor to stand in awe of it ? they think if they can but hide their deceit from men , and that men do not complain of them then all is well enough ; and this party is a self-seeker , and a man-pleaser ; first , seeks profit by deceit , and then would please men with fair words , to get a good report , and such doth not regard the lord , not his fear ; and so men sets up wicked practises , and by lying , and swearing , and cheating , and deceit , they seek their own gain by them ; how will many men commend that thing which they have to sell , and will not fear to pass their word in the praise of it , when they know in themselves that it is not so , as they speak of it ; this is a great evil , and grieves the lord. and how is covetous practises exercised amongst men in their dealings one with another ! and how doth deceit and guile abound in such dealings ! and how do men study deceit , and with all their strength strive to advance ! and surely the lord is grieved with it from day to day . therefore all people that are concerned in such practises , mind the light of the lord in your own consciences , that is a good principle alwayes present with you , though you in your wicked practises be distinct from it , and doth not regard it , yet it is within you , and is a witness against you , and you cannot hide your secrets from it . you may hide your deceit from men , and may please them with fair words , though you do deceive them in your dealing ; but you cannot hide deceit from god , neither can you please god , but in doing that which is just and equal every way ; and if you do not so , you grieve him , and draws his hand forth against you , with which he corrects you in secret . and if you now be diligent , and obey the reproof of the light , and joyn to the light , it will guide you in the fear of god , and will teach you to do right in all things , and upon all occasions , and do as justly in secret as if men did see your dealings , and you dare not do otherwise , for the fear of god will be placed in your hearts if you love the light ; and this is a righteous guide , and all that follow it are guided in righteousness , and so comes to deal righteously , and equally , and justly with all men ; and so the practise of truth , will stand in the principle of truth , and that is a sure foundation ; and such seeks to please god above all things , and to stand approved unto him ; and so from the righteous principle of god you will come to measure justly , and weigh equally , and your ballance , and measures , and weights , will be all true according to their places , and your hearts will be true , and your hands true ; and here you will come to discharge your selves in your places with a good conscience towards god and men ; and you will not regard the eyes of men , but the principle of god ; and this will be just dealing , and righteous in the ground ; for it is the righteous principle that brings it forth , and it will answer to the same principle in another . and if in this you stand , then will honest men speak well of you , and god will approve you , and you will then stand with a conscience void of offence towards god and men ; and here you will have the answer of a good conscience , and peace with god ; and you will be a good savour unto god , and honour god in your places , and so will finish your time with joy and not with grief ; and that will be the the greatest profit unto you , for the desire of money is the root of all evil , which whilst some covet after , they pierce their souls through with many sorrows . therefore be warned if you love your own souls ; and those that be your prentises , be carefull over them , and order them in the wisdom of god ; and first teach them the fear of god , and keep them out of vanity and bad company ; for many are enticed to do evil in their youngness , and so doth themselves wrong , and doth wrong to you whom they ought to serve faithfully ; and this many times comes to pass through your allowance of liberty , in which liberty they run into vanity , and falls into bad company , and then temptations they are presented , and there is a readiness to joyn with them , and to put the thing in practise , and so there is wrong done every way . therefore keep your eye over them in the wisdom of god , and be not hard nor severe with them in their places , but meekly instruct them in the thing that is good , and allow them that which is convenient to their places , and learn them to deal justly upon all occasions , and not to defraud any man upon any account ; so will your savour be sweet in all places , and you will reap more profit every way by so doing , then by practising deceit ; so in all things be diligent , for it must so come to pass concerning you , that time will cease , and be no more unto you in this world , and then you must stand before the lord as you are : and if you have obeyed the lord , and done well in your time and places , then you will have your reward ; but if you have disobeyed the lord , and dis-regarded his counsel , and have spent your time in deceit , then in sorrow you will lye down , and your latter end will be bitterness : therefore remember your end . to such as buy and sell in markets , or in any other places . man was created upright , but he hath sought out many inventions . and through inventions disorder is come amongst men , and by defrauding , and cozening , and cheating one another , they run into confusion and distraction , and so are gone from the created uprightness into subtilty and inventions , and with that subtil part they invent their wicked practises , and studies how to gain their own advantage in their dealing . and from this ground arises all deceit amongst men in buying and selling , and trading ; and they will commend their cattel and their commodities above what they are , and above what they know them to be , to gain advantage ; and though they know that their commodity be not at all worthy of commendations , yet the subtil part inventeth how to commend it , and how to set a great price upon it , and by subtilty thinks to over-reach another , and it may be will ask much more for such a commodity then he intends to take for it ; and from thence many vain words arises amongst men in their dealing , and in their bargaining ; and not onely so , but also many oathes , and cursings proceeds out of their mouthes , and all to set forth that thing which they know is not to be so commended ; and here men stands in swearing and cursing , and multitude of words before they can come to close , if they do close at all ; and this practise is not in the created uprightness , but from the subtil inventions , through which man is carried out of gods fear and order ; for the created uprightness is a pure , just and holy state , a state that stands upright to god , and unto all men , it is not a subtil inventer , but a simple dealer in all things , it cannot lye for gain , nor swear for profit , nor curse for wealth , it cannot deceive , nor defraud any man in dealing , though much outward profit might be seen in the end , it cannot commend a thing above what it really knows it to be , it cannot make many words in bargaining ; for it is an upright state ; and speaks things uprightly and justly , and speaks no more than it knows to be true , and not that neither at all times , for many words is a burden to it , and it is weary of them , it prizes the worth of things according to discerning , and according to discerning it speaks a standing word ; it hath no reservedness in it to take or ensnare another by deceit , for it is upright in all things . but how is man degenated from the created uprightness ! and how hath he sought out the subtil inventions ! and how doth every generation grow more cunning in their dealing ! and more deceit and guile breaks in upon generations , and they degenerate more and more from the created uprightness ; so that it is a grief to behold how one man deals with another in trading , and how markets are filled with multitude of words , which stands wholly in deceit and guile , and what a noise doth people make in markets , and runs in the pursuit of gain with such eagerness , as the whole course of nature is set on fire , and the anger and the passion , and the unruly nature will sometimes be so let up , as one man will strive with another about their dealings : and how will one man deceive another , and defraud another with buying things one from another , and many times forestalling things before they come into a market , and many times by ingrossing things into their hands which they have no need of , but to lay them by , and keep them for advantage ; and this wrongs the poor , and the needy , that when things are at a reasonable price , then the rich ingrosses them , and by that means keeps it at a dearer price in plenty , than otherwise it would be , and then in scarcity the poor must either buy it at their dear prices , or be in want ; and this grinds the poor every way , and is a disorderly practise , and is filled with covetousness , which the subtil inventer finds out to get wealth and riches ; and thus men run , and knows no stay for their minds , they would be dealers in every thing , and counted great dealers in all things , and would have a name , and so are alwayes in the thronged part , and in the cumber about many things , in which they all offend . but who remembers the lord ? or who chuses the better part ? or who seeks the kingdom of god first , and trusts the lord to add all things else unto him ? and who serves the lord with fear ? not the subtil inventer , but the created uprightness , which under all such practises and wicked devices lies grieved and pained ; for though man be gone into the inventions through the temptations of the subtilty , yet there is something upright remains in him , which did preserve its own beeing , though man degenerated ; and this is a pure principle in man , which doth not allow of deceit ; for that which is upright , and that which is deceitfull , hath no agreement together in any place ; so that when deceit is practised , uprightness reproveth ; for it bears the burden of it . therefore all people who are concerned in these things , take heed to your wayes , and to your doings ; for they are very bad , you cannot but know your selves , that there is much amiss in you , and that you do run many times after dishonest gain , and that which lets you see is it the light of christ , and that you must come unto if ever you come to be upright men ? for though some may be qualified in some things , and in their natural temper do manifest more moderation than others , and that there be more reservedness in their wayes , and that they do not appear so passionate , nor angry , openly so deceitfull ; yet there is a self-end lyes in the bottom of such a man , and he will reach forth himself to make his end secretly ; for if the mind of man do not come to the light , with the light to be guided , he doth not come into the upright state , but lyes amongst the many inventions , where none can please god. and now your day is with you , who are buying and selling , and trading ; and the light of christ is manifest in you , to shew you wherein you err ; and if you do not turn when it repoves you at any time , and come to repentance , you will wrong your selves for ever . therfore make haste out of your way , and turn to the lord and receive his wisdom in the light , that his wisdom may order you in all your places and services ; then you dare not use many words in your bargaining , but speak a standing word , according to your judgment in that which you have to sell or buy , and you dare not speak in the praise of any thing for any end to your selves ; and this practise would stand in uprightness , and would answer gods witness in every man , and then you would be out of fear to be cheated or deceived , because the uprightness deals plainly and simply , and speaks of things as they are , and not otherwise , and cannot conceal any fault , if it know it to be a fault ; and then there would be a closing in few words , as the commodity was liked , and yea and nay would stand on both sides . and in this is the good order , and is comly and commendable amongst men , and a good savour unto god , whereby he is honoured . and when you have done your markets , then repair to your outward dwellings , and do not sit and drink and revel in ale-houses , for by that you many times doubles your offence ; and when you have gotten some dishonest gain by deceit in bargaining , then to sit at an ale-house until you have spent it , and it may be much more , then had you not better been without it every way , for it adds sin to sin with grief . therefore be careful , and eschew such evils ; and when you have refreshed your selves as need requires , then do not run into excess ; for many are taken and wronged in that place , who goes to use the creatures only for refreshment ; and when they fall ▪ into company , and the strength of drink doth begin a little to strike upon their naturalls , then they are overcome to continue until they wrong themselves every way . now the light of the lord jesus christ guides out of all those evils : if that you mind it , and obey it , it will guide you from lying , and learn you to speak truth ; it will guide you from drunkenness , and learn you soberness , and so will change you from all those evils wherein ye walk , as it hath done many in this day , who sometimes were such in some degree , but now are washed and changed by the light , and walks in the way of peace with god , and can commend it unto you from a certain ground , if you can but receive the report ; and they can tell you in truth , that it is better to walk one day in the light , though it be in the cross unto themselves , than to satisfie themselves by gaining the world through invention ; and this is the word of the lord god unto you all people , forsake your way and live and walk in the way of understanding , that you may honour god in your generation , and that you may be a good savour unto god , and unto one another ; and in all things chuse the good and let the evil go , then will your dayes end in peace , which otherwise will end in sorrow ; and in that day you will remember the time you have mis-spent , which then you cannot recover again , though you may seek it with tears ; therefore whilst you have it , prize it , and do not spend it vainly , for you have spent too much after that manner . a general exhortation . now as there is a view taken of this great body , and every particular state being seen in its several place how it lyeth , and an information being gone forth in the universal love of god unto them all , whereby they may behold their error from the created uprightness in every place , and may also behold a way open to come in again into the good and blessed state of innocency , and to be gathered into the way and path of simplicity , where no deceit , nor guile , nor hypocrisie can have beeing , and so to come into the holy and good order of wisdoms government , and to stand as so many branches in their several places , to be a good savour to god , and honour god ; for if there were unity in the life and power of god through the universe , how sweet would every one be in their place ! and what a good savour there would be through the creation ! and then the creation would be set free from that which now burdens it , and god would have honour , and glory , and praise in his own work , and his goodness and his blessing would rest upon it , and there would be plenty to every man in his particular place , and he would rejoyce in his own portion ; and then no deceit , nor guile , nor lying , and swearing would be used amongst people to get dishonest gain ; and how would such a generation honour god! and how amiable would such a generation be in their places ! how amiable a thing would it be to see parents of children to bring up their children in the fear of god , and to nurture them in the wisdom of god , and to train them up in love and peace and unity together ! and to see masters and dames of families to order their families in gods wisdom , and to keep them in good order every way ! and to see servants in their places serve with diligence ! and to see aged people filled with sound wisdom and gravity ! and to see single people wholly given up to serve god , and to see young people remember their creator in the dayes of their youth , and to see children fear the lord in their infancy , and to see such as are in outward government to be cloathed with the wisdom of god , and to see ministers of parishes deny deceit , and come into the truth , and to see lawyers in true judgement and equity , and to see all trades-men with just weights and measures , and to see all buyers and sellers in the created uprightness ; then would hearts and minds come neer together in the one principle of god , and unity and peace would abound amongst people : and therefore as one body , you are all exhorted to fear the lord god , and turn to his light with which you are enlightned , and yield to obey it , when in your consciences it doth reprove you ; hearken diligently to that voyce , which calls you to return , and do not reject the counsel of the lord in any wise , but be still and quiet , and bow to the light in every manifestation , and believe in it , as it doth manifest it self , that with the light , the disorderly nature may come to judgement in every place , and that through judgement the creation may be delivered , which at this day travels in pain , grief , and sorrow ; for the disorder is above , and by disorder you are all out of your places , and so runs in wicked practises with which you dishonour god , and wrong your own souls . therefore you are all exhorted to mind the light which would do you good , and do not run your selves wilfully into eternal misery ; for the lord would not have you perish , but would that ye might come to the truth and be saved : and this is his compassion towards you , and his patience and forbearance concerning you ; for who amongst you that have not deserved cutting down , if the lord should not exercise his mercy ? every instant of time he may justly smite you , and bring your dayes to an end in a moment . therefore consider for what end you are yet a breathing generation , and have yet time given you ; is it not that you may behold gods goodness , and come to repentance , and that you may know the light with which you are enlightned , to be your redemption from your vain conversation ; and your salvation from your vain traditions , that every one in your places might honour god , and be a good savour unto god ? for what good doth your observations of dayes , and your preaching , and praying , and all your worships and services , and all your talk of god , and of christ to be your saviour , and the hope which you say you have by his merits ; what good will all this talk do you , whilest you live in sin , which is contrary to god ? and so are under the condemnation of christ , and not in his salvation ; for he doth not merit any thing for the sin , but for the sinner● and consider how this lyes , for you want understanding , christ jesus doth manifest his light in man , and with his light he lets man see his sin , by which sin man is separated from god and he reproves the sinner , and calls him to repentance ; then the mind turning to the light , when the light reproveth , and answering the light faithfully , then doth the light begin to separate him from the sin , and to draw him out of the sin ; so christ saves the sinner from the sin which he hath lived in , and through his judgement he purges the sinner , and makes him clean through the water of regeneration , and then he reconciles unto god the father by himself , and merits the love , and the life , and the peace for the sinner , which in the sinful state was separated from god , but now in the clean state is reconciled to god by jesus christ ; and so man is not reconciled as a sinner in the sin , but a sinner washed , and bathed , and cleansed by the pure water which taketh away the filthiness of flesh and spirit , and so reconciled to god , who is holy , in the holinesse of christ jesus . and here man comes to christ , and to his salvation , and salvation is the work of christ alone , and by him is perfected through regeneration ; so that it may here be understood by this short testimony , that the free grace of god by jesus christ is held forth for salvation , and not the covenant of works ; for though it be so , that people must come to repentance and amendment of life , and that they must deny their evil wayes in obedience to christ , who is pure , yet there is no act which by them is done , that brings salvation , though in their way they do meet with peace from god through obedience ; but the salvation is in the free grace of god through christ jesus ; and the grace of god that brings salvation doth appear to all men : [ mark ] the grace of god doth appear to all men ; and where doth it appear ? why , in their own consciences ; and what doth it appear against ? why , against the body of sin in every place ; and what doth it appear to do ? why , to destroy the devil , the author of sin ; and what will it do further ? why , it will teach to deny ungodliness and worldly lust ; so [ mark ] the grace of god that brings salvation , doth appear in man against ungodlines , and teaches man that doth receive it , to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts ; and these things must be denied in obedience to the grace . yet the salvation doth not stand in the thing done , but in the grace alone , which requires the duty , & teaches to deny that which it appears again't , and then it takes away the sin , and saves from the sin which hath made man unclean ; and what will the grace do further ? why , it will teach to live soberly , and righteously , and godly , in this present evil world . so [ mark again ] here is a change wrought in man by the grace of god , the grace as it doth appear being received , the ungodliness and worldly lusts they are denied , and soberness , and righteousness , and godliness , they are brought forth and manifested by the grace ; and here is the free-grace in the free-love of god by jesus christ , who is salvation to the ends of the earth , to all that in him believe . but people doth not know him , and so lets forth their own belief into an imagination of him , and looks to find him in their own way , and they having formed him in their own belief without them , they neglect the manifestation of his light within them , and the body of sin remains unremoved ; and such knows not his salvation , but with sin is defiled and polluted , and with that unclean body his life is pressed , and there the just suffers for the unjust , and the load of sin is heavy upon him , which in his patience he beareth , though with his light he place judgment upon it every way . and thus it is opened what the grace is in it self , and what it is unto man that receives it , and believes in it , that all may mind the grace that brings salvation , and close with it in its appearance , that they may come to salvation by it , which in it self , is free . therefore all people ponder these things in your hearts , and wait to know what time will bring forth in order to your salvation , and do not neglect the time which you have present , but day by day consider gods goodness towards you , that his goodness may overcome you to repentance , and that you may come to jesus christ , and know your salvation by him alone that his peace he may seal unto you in his own covenant , and that in his life and wisdom you may walk as becomes christians , in all sobriety , and honesty , dealing justly , and loving mercy ; and then you will be a good savour unto god , and generations to come will rejoyce at your remembrance ; and this is an exhortation unto you joyntly , that you may come to the light of christ particularly , which light is but one in you all ; and if you mind it to obey it , you will know the good order in it , and every one in your particular places , being brought into good order with the light , you will have peace and comfort in your places ; and in the light which is but one , you will in one be joyned , and there will be but one heart and mind amongst you , and then as one body you will stand in righteousness to glorifie god ; and this will bring peace in the latter end ; but if you refuse to hearken , and to obey , your destruction will be of your selves , and god will be clear when he judges : therefore consider it seriously , and neglect not to close with the tenders of gods love ; for to day it is unto you , but to morrow it may be hid from you , therefore lay it to heart . concerning faith. christ jesus is the author of faith , and by his resurrection he brings it forth in himself ; it is a pure substance which is holy , and doth proceed from the life , and with the life is strengthned , and through the life it hath its growth by degrees ; and this is true faith , and is but one , not divided from the body of the author , though in its manifestation it may appear diversly ; for the diversity of its manifestation is to be understood in its degrees , according to the resurrection of the seed ; for the substance and matter of faith being wholly in the seed , it cannot be otherwise known , or received , but as the seed rises and reveals it ; so that faith is the gift of god , and is revealed by the resurrection of the seed ; and this faith goeth through the body of darkness , and gets victory over darkness , whereby the seed comes up into a more glorious liberty in the resurrection , and faith comes to be advanced into a higher degree , and is strengthened with the vertrue of christ , who is the author of it , and so it goes on into a more full perfection , through degrees . and this faith worketh by the love in which it is nourished and strengthned , and by this faith the just lives , through all oppsitions , and victorie over the world is obtained by it ; for this is the victory that over comes the world , even your faith. for the world is an enemy to the lamb , and from the foundation of it , the lamb hath been slain ; and the world warreth against christ , the author of faith. now faith coming up through the resurrection of the seed , and standing in the power of the author ; with this faith is victory obtained over the world , through which victory the lamb comes into liberty , and the seed that is pure ascendeth , and the faith ascendeth into a higher degree in the seed ; so that the conscience comes to be cleansed from that which hath defiled , and the seed of god which is pure takes the dominion in the conscience ; and the conscience is made pure through the resurrection of the seed , and the mysterie of faith is then held in a pure conscience ; ( mark ) the mysterie of faith is held in a pure conscience , the seed which ever was , and is a mysterie to that part which would live by knowledge ; and as the mysterie of faith comes to be held in a pure conscience , so the fruits of faith is manifest from the mysterie , and branches forth in all purity , according to the nature of the mysterie ; and this faith purifies the heart with its purity , and makes the in-side clean , and the in-side being clean , the out-side is clean also . and this is the faith of gods elect , and doth shew it self by its own work : for as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also . and this is not an imagined faith , but a revealed faith , and by the resurrection of the seed it is brought forth ; and this is one faith , in one life and power , and it stands in the power , and by the power is preserved ; and without this faith it is unpossible to please god ; neither can any come to god , neither can any be justified before god ; for true faith is in the son , and with the son the father is well-pleased ; and by the son must all come to god that comes unto him ; and in the son is justification , for faith in the son makes clean the heart , and gives victory over that which is contrary to god ; and with the power of the son , in whom the faith standeth , the polluted part is cast out , and by the son there is access to god. now there are many beliefs in the world , and many imaginations , yet but one faith , and that faith is revealed , and none can know it but in the resurrection of the seed ; for faith in it self is a mysterie , and is hid in its own substance , and none can see it , nor know it , until they joyn to the light , and wait in the light , to feel the rising of the seed , and faith by the seed revealed . so true faith doth not stand in the wisdom of men , but in the power of god , which power kills the unrighteousness , and reveals the righteousness from faith to faith ; and then by faith there is justification known in the righteousness , and there is peace felt with god through jesus christ. and this is purifying faith , and saving faith , and is but one faith , which hath its work in man ; and the good fight of faith being fought , the course comes to be finished with joy ; and this is a standing faith in the standing power of god , which goes over the unbelieving part , in which faith , there is perfect unity and concord , and all born of the seed meets together in it , and stands in one perfect body , according to the degrees in one perfect faith , and with one perfect heart and mind they rejoyce in god their saviour . so whatsoever belief man hath made to himself , and whatsoever he hath set up through that belief , to be the object of it , he must unloose his hold , and break his idol down , or he cannot meet in the unity of the faith with those that are born of the seed , neither will his belief , save him , neither will his belief abide in the furnace , nor endure the tryal through affliction , so can never be found to the praise and glory of god ; but faith in the power is preserved in the furnace , and strengthned in afflictions , and in the power is kept to the end , and so goes through all by believing ; and christ who is the author of faith , he also is the finisher of it ; and the tryal of this faith is much more precious than gold that perisheth , and is found to the praise and glory of god ; and the end of this faith is everlasting peace . and this faith is the substance of things hoped for , and the evidence of things not seen ; and by this faith the elders obtained a good report ; which faith is now known again , and the just mens spirits in it , and there is an universal unity amongst the just from the beginning . and this is true faith. concerning hope . the hope which gives satisfaction is christ jesus ; and this hope standeth firm and sure , and it is answered with peace in hoping , for the living hope is in christ ; and though many oppositions may rise against it , yet the hope doth not fail , but reaches to attain the end , and hopes to the end ; for hope reaehes to something , and hopes for something that is not yet attained ; for when that which is hoped for comes to be enjoyed , then the hope is satisfied , and ceases hoping , and enjoyeth that which it hath hoped for ; for whilest it is hope , it waits to be answered with that which it hopeth for , and so hopeth over all that which stand in opposition , and it is answered with peace in hoping , though the full enjoyment of that which it hopeth for be not yet attained , and it still presses forward to its desired hope . and this is christ in man the hope of glory ; ( mark ) christ the hope of glory , the hope that liveth , in which hope man knows a part in the life , and with the least measure of hope in christ the life , he breaths after more life , and hopes for more enlargedness in the life , which hope doth still press into the life , and here christ is the hope , and christ is the life ; yet whilst the life is in bondage to any thing , the hope is exercised in hoping , because in that place there is not perfect liberty , which the hope hopeth for ; and all that feels this hope , they feel christ , and they breath in his hope for perfect liberty in his life , and waits to be delivered by his power from under the bondage of corruption , and waits for the glory , and hopes for the glory , and so the hope is kept in the life , and breaths in the life to come into the glory ; and in due time there is an answer given , and it comes to a full possession of that which it hoped for , and so comes to its satisfaction in the glorious liberty ; for it is to be understood , that whilst the seed is in travel in any place , that there is something of the oppressing nature over , and then the hope is exercised through faith , and the faith believes over it , and the hope hopes in the faith ; and in that state there is a hope to be eased , and a hope to be delivered , and a hope to come into the glory , and a hope to be established in rest ; and here faith and hope have their unity together , and are exercised together , and faith is the substance of things hoped for ; and by the power in which it standeth , it makes way for the hope , and brings in the evidence of things not yet seen ; for faith and hope are united in the ground , and faith goes forth in the power , to make way for the liberty of the hope , and through the faith , the hope overcomes oppositions , and comes to the enjoyment of that which it hopeth for , and so christ is in man the author of faith , and also the hope of glory ; and this is a living hope , and a standing hope , for it is begotten in the life to breath after life , and hopes for the full perfection of life , and the glorious liberty in the life , which being attained , the hope is then satisfied , and possesseth the thing which it hath hoped for , through the travel ; and there the hope is fully answered and satisfied , and then faith and hope rejoyces in the glorious liberty of christ the fulness . and this hope is not like the hypocrites hope that perisheth ; for the hypocrites hope is generated in the airy part , by the motion of imagination , and it is like the spiders web , which by her own labour she makes to her self . and how many have created their own hope , through their own belief , and hath something which the hope looks at to be its satisction in the end ; but that hope perisheth , and the end of it is misery . for how do people deceive themselves with a vain hope , and how much are many perswaded of assurance of life through their own hope ? and yet know not christ in them the hope of glory , but through imagination have created an object , and their belief standeth in that , and their hope reaches to that , and no further ; for is it not the cry of many people , that they hope to be saved , and they hope god will shew them mercy , and they hope he will pass by their offences , and pardon their sins ? and so in a vain hope enclose themselves as a spider in her web , and there sleeps at ease , as if there were no danger . and this is the hope of the hypocrite that perishes , who knows not christ in him ; for there is no hope that is created through an imagination , or that reaches to any thing which the imagination frameth , that can give satisfaction to the soul : for the soul being immortal , there is not any thing below life and immortality that can satisfie it ; and life and immortality is in christ jesus , the souls saviour ; and there can be no assurance of eternal life through any other faith or hope , but what standeth in himself ; then how miserable are such , that have neither faith nor hope , but what they have created to themselves ! and hath no further seal of eternal life , but what they draw to themselves through their own belief and hope ; which being created in the perishing part , there must an end come , and both the object of the belief and hope , and also the belief and the hope will fall and perish together . but christ is for ever , and the living faith and hope is in himself , and he alone is the object of that faith and hope ; and this hope gives peace in hoping , and gives assurance of that which is hoped for ; and through assurance there is satisfaction in the travel , and in the end there is perfect rest in christ. and this is a true hope . concerning love. god is love , and love is his nature , and it is in god the fulness ; and as it is in god , it is unmeasurable every way ; the heights , and depths , and length , and breadth , is past sinding out ; and it is a secret in it self , unto which no mortal eye can approach : for it doth contain it self within its own perfect body , and there is in it self in everlasting fulness , and by its own motion , and in its own pleasure it manifests it self to the sons of men universally , and spreads it self as an unbounded river , which hath its natural course from the body of the sea , and in its passage doth refresh the thirsty , and returns into the body of the sea again ; even so it is with love , which in it self is a pure perfect body , containing it self within its own body , as to its own fulness , and yet is alwayes sending from it self many sweet and pleasant streams of vertue , which refresheth and watereth all that are athirst for it , and all the streams that proceed from it , they have their course and passage , and returns into their own natural body again , and so love is in it self an incomprehensible being , and from eternity to eternity it stands unchangable , and it is the greatest of all things , and its vertue is the chiefest good , it is a fountain which abounds in largeness , and fulness , and in freeness , it opens it self in tenderness , and with its own vertue it doth supply the want of all that thirst for it , and it gives forth a measure of it self , in the openings of it self , which as a stream of pure water doth reach the thirsty soul ; and this is love in it self , which disposeth of it self by measure , according to its own pleasure and with this love god loves the world , and he sends his only begotten son into the world , that whosoever believes in him should not perish , but have everlasting life ; and with this his love he reaches all people through a manifestation of light , which light is christ the only begotten of the father , and with this light of christ is every man englightned , that comes into the world , and with this light the sinner is sought , and for sin reproved , and that is love which doth reprove ; and who do not answer the reproof , they do not answer the love of god , neither doth receive the love when it is tendered ; but who answers the reproof , and loves the light which doth reprove , they answer the love , and receives the love , and then with the love they are drawn to love god again ; and so there is not any people in the fall that first loves god , untill he have manifested his love unto them by jesus christ , which love is certainly manifested through christ unto all people ; which love being received , it draweth to its self , and begeteth a love to it self , whereby man comes to love god ; not that he loved god first , but that god first loved him , and gave his only begotten son for him , and through his own love manifested in christ jesus , he begetteth man to love him again ; and as man receives christ jesus in the reproof , he receives the love of god , for if man do not joyn unto christ when he reproves him , and close with the tender of love in that dispensation , he is an opposer and a rejecter of christ , in whom the fathers love is made manifest , and so will not come to christ to receive the love , and the life that is in him : and hence it is that so many are destitute of god & christ , and wants the salvation , and the peace , and the vertue of love , because they are more in love with those things that are reproved , than with that which doth reprove ; and though christ do come to do the fathers will , and tender the love of the father in himself , yet many do reject him , and outstand him , and proves rebellious against him , and though he waite to shew mercy , and from time to time doth manifest his kindness in tendering , yet there is not a readiness of receiving , but rather of despising and contemning ; and here he comes to many , but they receive him not ; and here he wooes many , but they will not come unto him , that they might have life in him ; so do many turn their backs upon him , and with their rebellious nature grieves him , and causes him to draw his love into his own bosome , and so they lye destitute of love , though in it self it be large and full , and in its manifestation universal . and ▪ such are miserable and wretched , who rejects the love of god which is tendered in christ jesus ; but to as many as do receive him , to them he gives power to become the sons of god , even to as many as believes in his name ; which are born , not of flesh , nor of blood , nor of the will of man , but of god. ( mark ) they that receives christ jesus , they come to be born of god , and christ gives them power to become the sons of god ; and this is a state beyond the birth of flesh and blood , and the will of man , for that birth hates the light , and loves darkness rather , and will not come to the light , left the light should reprove its deeds ; but they that love the light , they bring their deeds to the light , and they are manifest to be wrought in god ; and such grows in the love , and springs in the love , and is nourished with the vertue of the love , and the love is the babes consolation , for the babe bring new born in the love , it is brought forth a little child filled with innocency , & it waits for nourishment from the brest of love , and waits to grow in strength through the nourishment , and it hath no will to any thing , but delights to do the will of the father only ; and thus god is known to be love , through the measure of his love manifested and received in christ , and all that have received christ , they have received the love of god , and in that love they love god again , and are born of god , and knoweth god , for every one that loveth are born of god , and knoweth god ; and there is the true knowledge of god , and of his love by jesus christ : and they that do not thus know god , they have not yet received jesus christ his son , and so neither knows the father , nor the son , with a true knowledge , neither do they walk in the way of peace , nor feels the vertue of the streams of love ; and all such are dry , and withered , and only please themselves with their own imagined way . but the birth born of love , drinks in the streams of pure water , and it knows the fountain that holds it , and it grows up to the enjoyment of the fountain , and so comes to the spring , and drinks full draughts of an overflowing cup of blessing , and rejoyces in the possession of its portion . and thus to know god is life eternal , for all born of love , they know the son , and the son reveals the father , and is the way to the father ; and they that have the son , they have life , and are in the possession of life , which can never be compassed by the wisest part of man , nor fathomed with all his wisdom , but to an innocent babe it is revealed , and the babe knows the secret , and gives thanks to the father , that he hid those things from the wise part which would have gained them for knowledge out of the life ; and this is the greatest attainment ; who are born into it , such knows the end of all flesh , and sees faith , hope , and love remain , but the greatest of all is love , and if love be wanting , there is nothing profitable ; though a man should give all his goods to the poor , and his body to be burned , if he want love it profits him nothing , so that the greatest of all is love ; for there is the fulness known , and there is the inheritance sealed , and that is the end unto which faith looketh , and for which hope hopeth in the travel , which being possessed and enjoyed , then the end of faith and hope is fully answered , and the salvation of the soul is witnessed , and the heir rejoyces in the fulness of his portion which is love . and here is faith , hope , and love briefly opened , and in themselves are in one perfect body united , which in every manifestation there is comfort found according to measure , but the greatest of all is love , and in love the babe sits down , and is in co-heirship with christ , and in the kingdom everlasting , and in the power of an endless life , it possesseth the durable riches and treasures , and is filled with joy and peace , and blessing , and crowned with glory and renown for ever . concerning the word . the word is pure , and the whole universe is upheld by the power of it ; all things that were made , were made by it , for it was in the beginning with god , and was god , and it hath never changed from what it was in the beginning , adam heard it in the garden , and abraham heard it in his own countrey , and it called him forth , and he obeyed and followed it , and he was blessed . moses heard it in the mount , and he received the law from it ; the prophets heard it , and they prophesied in it ; and in fulness of time the word became flesh , and dwelt amongst men , and they beheld it as the glory of the onely begotten of the father , full of grace and truth . and the apostles had the word , and they preached the word , and that was their message , and they knew it to be the word of faith , and the word of eternal life ; and the word is the same this day , and the glory of it is seen , and the vertue of it is felt and fed upon : for as in the beginning it generated , and generation was brought forth by it ; so now it doth regenerate , and the new born babe desires the sincere milk of it , and the word feeds it and nourishes it with its own goodness ; so the babe feeds upon the word , and receives the milk of the word as its natural food , and it doth not live by any other thing ; and whilest it is a new born babe the word gives it milk , but when through nourishment it grows into strength , then it eats the flesh ; for the word is made flesh , and the flesh is meat indeed , and this must people eat if they have life in christ ; for christ is the word , and christ is the life , and they that do not eat him have no life in him . and this is a hard saying to all unbelievers ; for such said in times past , how can this man give us his flesh to eat ? and this is the bread that comes down from heaven , which if a man eat he shall never dye ; they are blessed that believes in this , for christ is the bread of life , and all that hungers after him in truth , he feeds them according to his own pleasure : and here is living water felt from christ the fountain , and here is meat known that endures to everlasting life , and with his vertue and goodness the soul is replenished and comforted , and this is the word which is near every man ; who shall ascend to fetch it down from above ; or who shall descend to fetch it from below ? but what faith it ? the word is night thee , even in thy heart , and in thy mouth , to obey it , and do it ; and there must man know it , and obey it , if ever he come to feed upon it ; and he must first know it as a reprover , and then as a hammer and a fire , to break down , and burn up all that drossie nature that is in him , and the rebellious part that stands in opposition against the lord. and this is the word which is nigh unto every man , alwayes taking hold upon the transgressor in judgment , and as a swift witness overtakes the transgressor in all his wayes ; and in that place it is quick and powerful , and sharper than a two edged sword ; if a man commit evil , the word hath a quick motion to find him , and is powerful to judge him , and sharp to wound him , and the hairy scalp of the wicked is wounded by the sword of the spirit which is the word of god ; and so it manifests it self in man according to the present disposition of a man ; if darkness dispose him , and that he be in the evil , either in thought , word , or deed , then the word stands against him , and is quick , and powerful , and sharp , and a hammer , and a fire , and man may feel it to be so in its operation ; for it is to be understood that the word in it self is an unchangeable being , and one pure perfect intire body of love yet the manifestations of it appears diversly as man stands before it , and it hath its operation in man according to mans present disposition ; for if he sin , he is quickly overtaken with judgement , and that which overtakes him and judges him is the word , and there he may feel it powerful and sharper then a two edged sword ; and through his obedience to it in that manifestation , then it becomes a hammer and a fire in its operation , and it is as a fire in his bones to consume the fleshly part in every place . and by this a young man may cleanse his wayes ; for if a man take heed to the word when it manifests it self with reproof ; and when it shews him the out-goings of his mind , and his wandering thoughts , and vain imaginations , and the body of sin and death that is in him , and doth defile him , and separate him from god ; if he take heed to the word when it manifests secret evils , which is its nature to do , then it will become a light to his feet and a lanthorn to his paths and he will find it to be a true guide unto him , yea in his lowest state , it will be a light to his feet , and guide his feet , and then man doth not err ; when he comes to the word in himself , and takes heed unto it , then the word becomes a light to his feet ; for the word is light , and man following the light , and walking in the light , he doth not stumble , but walks safely , and with the light of the word he sees his way , and sees all dangers as they lye . and he that thus takes heed to the word , and answers the word , and comes to obey it when it reproves him , then the word lifts him up , and sets his feet in the way , and so becomes a light to his feet , to guide him that he may not err , and the word gives man strength to follow it , and then he begins to travel out of the dark corners of the earth , and out of the earthly habitations , and follows the word , and believes in the promise of the word ; and this is an express word in every man , it speaks expressly in his conscience according to the state it finds him in , and so it may be known , manifesting it self as mans present state and condition is ; and as man takes heed unto it , he takes heed to the light , and the light guides his feet out of all perverse wayes , and crooked wayes , and froward wayes , and guides him , and leads him in the way of peace , and so it is a cleansing word , who takes heed unto it are cleansed by it ; for a young man may clense his ways by taking heed to the word , and by obeying the word ; and man that takes heed unto it , and obeys it , the cleansing water of the word goes through him , and it cleanses out of him all the corrupt and bad nature , that hath defiled him , and made him unclean ; then man may feel the water of the word to wash him , and the water of regeneration to renew him : and here the word plunges man in its own pure water , and washes him , and makes his in-side clean , and so his heart is washed and made clean , and his mind is made clean , and his body clean ; and here is the baptiser , and the baptising , which doth not lye outward for the taking away the filth of the flesh , but makes a man clean within , and renews him in the spirit of his mind unto god , and so washes away the filth of the old nature , which hath loadned and burdened the tender seed . and this is the water of the word which flows in man , as man takes heed unto it , and obeys it ; and then man is sanctified by the word , and the word is truth ; and being thus cleansed , and washed , and sanctified by the word , then it becomes the word of reconciliation , and the word of eternal life , and it brings man to god in a clean washed state , and reconciles him unto god in its own holiness and righteousness ; and then man knows peace with god through jesus christ , and there the clean enters the kingdom , and all the unclean , which cannot enter , is washed away ; & then man knows christ his redeemer , his saviour , and intercessor , and hath access to god the father by him , and so comes into the kingdom , and sits down in the kingdom , and inherits the joy , and the peace , and the blessing ; so it is to be considered , that though the manifestation of the word be divers , yet the nature of its self in its perfect body , is an unchangeable beeing , and is the same this day as it was in the beginning , and it is the word which lives and abides for ever ; and unto it all people are to take heed , for it never loses its testimony ; but according to the present state and condition of man , so doth it manifest it self ; and whilst man is in sin it is a word of reproof : and when he yields to obey it , then it is a hammer and a fire , and hath an operation for to break down the mountains and the hard rocks , and to sever the dross , and burn the chaffe , and then it becomes water to cleanse and wash away the filthiness of flesh and spirit ; and then it sanctifies in its own righteousness , and so brings man to god , and reconciles him to god ; and then it is the word of reconciliation , and the word of eternal life unto that man , for he lives in it , and dwells in it , and feeds upon it ; and there christ is known the word of eternal life , and his flesh , and his blood is fed upon with joy . and this is substance which doth endure , and never decayes , nor changes . mans restless part , and the election . searching , hunting , and comprehending to know , is an uncertain state , and genders to bondage in every place , and no assurance or true satisfaction that any can receive through that labour , for the end of those things is death ; and whosoever searcheth after life , and not in the light through which life is revealed , they run over the innocency , and hunts above the simplicity and the house of bondage is their place , and in that place there is no certain peace ; for if the restless part be not bruised down , and kept under in every place , the seed of the evil doer doth rejoyce over the seed of god ; and it being of a contrary nature , the weight of its nature falls heavy upon the just , and sorely oppresseth the holy one and when a man is overcome by any thing of that nature , and falls under the power of it , he is in bondage to that very thing ; and though much may be put down that hath ruled , and unto which man hath sometimes been in bondage , and under the power of which he hath known grief , and then comes to feel ease given by the removing of it , and in that place may sit in peace ; yet notwithstanding something may remain , untaken away , unto which he is in bondage , and in that place he hath grief , and not peace ; for unto what a man yields himself servant to obey , he is a servant unto that very thing ; and if it be a presentation from the body of darkness , if he yield unto it , he serves it , and comes under the power of it , in which place he sits in bondage : and here many are taken unawares , whose minds are not stayed upon god ; for by searching into things , and not in the measure of god , and by running before their measure , and in the hunting part would compass something to themselves ; in that very path the snare is laid , and in that state they have not a clear eye , neither can they distinguish things that do appear ; and being upon the search before the light , and pursuing the search with eagerness , darkness transforms it self into the likeness of that thing which the search is after , and then holds it forth and presents it to the hunting part , and that part being hunting out of the light , it cannot discern the danger as it lyes in that presentation ; but coming transformed in a likeness , and presenting it self to be true , the hunting part joyns unto it , and a belief closes in with it , and it is received and treasured up for the true matter : and in this place yielding , man becomes a servant to that very thing with which his belief is closed , and is under the power of it , and in bondage to it . and these lying signs which are transformed and presented from the body of darkness , doth overcome the hunting part to believe in them ; and so darkness ruleth , and the seed of god bears the burdens , and in that place there is no peace ; and though there may be liberty taken through such a belief , and that part which hath joyned may in that place rejoyce , yet neither is the belief , nor the thing believed in true , and therefore it is sin in the ground , not being in the true faith. and here many please themselves in those things with which their belief is closed , and in that very place rejoyces over the witness of god , and doth not regard when reproof cometh , because a strong perswasion standeth in that thing with which their belief is closed ; and such casts reproof behind them , and doth not look at reproof to belong unto them in their place ; and being in that thing closed through a belief they conclude that it is not to be condemned as evil in them , because it is their faith ; and being their faith it is not evil in them ; and by such a belief in it , they create a peace and a joy ; but in that place the seed of god is grieved and afflicted , and that which creates a peace and a joy over the seed , must all come down into mourning and bitter lamentation ; for all such rejoycing is vain , and there is no peace given of god unto that part . i having a deep consideration of these things ; and beholding how many are intangled , and having my self been a traveller amongst such dangers , i am moved in compassion to the elect of god , to open some snares and dangers , and to hold forth a certain way of recovery unto all that are in hold . and this observe , that when the fallen wisdom runs into a search , and with its subtilty hunts to find out secrets , then doth nimrod begin his inventions ; and that part would build a tower to reach to heaven , and with its own handy work would preserve it self in safety , and that is babels institution ; and the ground of its erection , which in all places is confusion , and is for utter desolation and destruction in every place , so who would be a true searcher into the divine mysteries , and into the secrets of the most high , they must learn to stand still , and in the silent state wait upon god , and keep their minds stayed in the light ; in which light hidden things are discovered , and the counsels of all hearts are made manifest , and in the light he reveals his secrets , and opens the parables , and declares the hard sayings , and all that fear his name , they put their trust in him , and are contented with what he reveals unto them ; and they that seek in this , and comes to the righteousness through it , they find the kingdom , and the treasure , and there is all things added ; and this is godliness which brings great gain ; and the mind being kept in the spirit , it goes with the spirit into the life , and in the life the deep things of god are known , and understood , and not by any other way . so who can discern the glory of the sun , and the glory of the moon , and in what they differ , may cleerly distinguish between that which is revealed , and that which is comprehended ; for though the moon gather her light from the body of the sun yet it is not the light of the sun , as it is sent from the moon neither doth that light rule the day ; and this is a plain similitude . so many tender people are wronged and deeply betrayed , whose minds are after a search into the divine mysteries , and in nimrods nature hunts before the lord , they run into many dangers , and in many places are taken captive by the subtil part and through a presentation from the body of darkness , they are carried into a strong belief of what is presented , and closes with it as a true and firm ground : and such lays another foundation then that which god hath laid which is jesus christ , the wisdom from above ; and the belief of man being closed with that which is presented , from that belief divers things are observed and practised , and every one sets up the thing with which their belief is closed , and into which they , are joyned , and unto that thing they stand strongly engaged , and in that part is all strife and contention ; for every man would maintain his own faith , and he cannot joyn , but with such as are of his own belief ; and nimrod sitting king at babel , and being chief in that work , the end of his labour is distraction and confusision , and that doth consequently attend such a belief ; and who do search and hunt , and with that part comprehend , they do erect and build in their observation ; and one erects and builds his observation in his belief , and he cryes , lo here ; another erects and builds his observation in his belief , and he cryes , lo there : and there is something of a belief in all touching the matter which they do erect and build , to observe ; and through the strength of this belief , they strive and contend one against another ; and that is nimrods part who sits king in babell , and all that ever hath been found out by the deepest searchers in the hunting part , it rises no higher than babel , and at babel it ends ; and whether a belief lye to something outward , or something inward , if it lye in that which is gathered by hunting and comprehending , within the compass of mans own wisdom , it is babel , and bondage to the seed ; and though in some places there may not be strife manifested , yet there may be such narrowness in that part with which the belief is closed , as the seed may before afflicted by it ; and in that part man seats himself , and in the strength of his belief he defends his place and his ground , though it be a slippery place for his feet to stand upon ; and though in this place he seem to be fixed , yet the hunting part is most at liberty in such a man , and he is in a restless state , alwayes searching to find something which he hath a will to know ; and in that place a presentation being offered , he runs to gather it , and adds that to his belief : but this finds not the mercy , for not in him that willeth , nor in him that runneth , but in god alone is the mercy ; and he shews it when he will , and how he will , and to whom he will ; ( mark ) it is god that sheweth mercy , and he shews mercy to whom he will shew mercy ; ( mark again ) he shews it to whom he will , and in what time he will , and it is the election that obtains it , and not the hunter , the willer , and runner , and comprehender ; he doth not shew mercy to that part , neither doth that part obtain it , or enjoy it , for esau is reprobated , ( mark that : ) therefore who would know the things of god , and find the mercy , they must stand still and wait in the light. and this is the word of the lord god to all people ; for in the light the mercy is shewed , and the election obtains it , and there is gods purpose sure according to election , and his mercy is sure to the elected , and in the mercy the election is raised , and the restless , hunting comprehending part is laid waste and subjected ; and so the mercy is given to jacob , the birth of the seed , because god loves him , and it is withheld from esau , the birth of the flesh , because god hates him ; and though esau search in the depth of his wisdom , and hunt to the farthest end of his imagination , yet he can never find the mercy in his way , for the purpose of god according to election must stand ; and quiet jacob that waits in stilness , he is beloved , and unto him god shews the mercy , and he obtains it , because he is elected ; but restless esau , that hunts abroad , he is hated of god , and rejected ; so in the mercy is jacob raised and exalted , and esau he is put down and subjected ; then perfect freedom in the seed is known , and mercy and peace is possessed in that habitation . therefore all must cease from their own labour , in which they are wearying themselves , and come into stilness , quietness , and stayedness , and feel the seed of god , with which he keeps covenant and mercy for ever ; in which seed stands the election before the worlds foundation , and there the simple innocent minde in its tender breathings , receives consolation ; for in the stillness the everlasting springs opens , and the mercy goeth forth in freeness , and the election obtains it , and the soul rejoyces in it ; and that is true joy in the lord , yea , fulness of joy in his presence ; for now the ransomed of the lord comes from babylons rivers , where it hath sitten weeping , and in the mercy it returns to sion rejoycing , and comes to be placed in sions holy hill , and learns the songs of sion ; and in the true joy of a redeemed state , it sings the praise to him that lives for ever . and here is the possession in the everlasting kingdom , and a sitting down in everlasting peace , and blessing ; and this is the faith of gods elect which is true , and the faith gives victory over nimrod and esau ; for christ is the authour of it , and in his power it standeth , and it is justified , and not condemned ; and here is the one only true wise god known , and jesus christ whom he hath sent ; and all that are of this faith , they have fellowship with the father , and with the son , and with one another , and so they meet together in the unity of the faith of the son of god , in which faith they have peace with god through jesus christ , and in his peace they lie down together in safety ; and as lambs of one fold , they rejoyce under the government of the good shepherd . so let none search to know beyond what is revealed in the spirit ; for god is , and is a rewarder of all that love him : [ mark ] god is , and none can know him , but as he reveals what he is in the son , through whom the brightness of his glory shines abroad , and the express image of his person is made manifest ; and who are contended with that measure which is made manifest in the son , they receive their reward in it ; and all such are blessed whose hearts and minds are simply disposed in love to god. a particular place of bondage opened . the principle of god in man is a true and faithfull witness for god in every place , and it hath a sure testimony against that spirit which worketh in darkness , in which darkness the mystery of iniquity is seated , and hath a place of government in man , and sits exalted in strength and power over man in the fall , and from that place doth all deceiveableness of unrighteousness proceed ▪ and the witness of god doth stand in its place , and is in it self a holy principle , which hath no communion with darkness , nor with the deceiveableness of unrighteousness , which from the darkness proceedeth ; but with its purity it maketh manifest the secret workings of the mystery of iniquity , and stands a witness against that part and principle , and also the manifestation that is produced from it ; and unto which of these a man yields himself servant to obey , he is a servant to it , and becomes actually disposed by it ; and as man joyns to either , and comes under the power of either , so is his works brought forth , his words are spoken , and his deeds are done , from the actual motion within him , by one of those principles ; and the words and deeds are made manifest either to be good or evil , according to the nature of the principle unto which man is joyned ; and there is a clear distinction both in the ground , and in the manifestation ; for as that of god in man is true in it self , and the nature of it is righteous , holy , and pure , so it doth declare it self distinctly from every manifestation proceeding out of darkness , and hath a sure testimony in it self against it in every place : for as it is certain , that man is joyned to one of these principles , and is a servant to it ; so it is as certain , that unto which he is joyned and serving , the same doth actually dispose him in the motion of it self ; and he being a servant to it , and actually disposed by it , the fruits of its nature is manifest through him , either in the good , or in the evil . so when the wicked one brings forth his works through man , that work comes out of man , and defiles him , and it is plain , that there is a root within him from which it receives nourishment , and so is produced and brought forth ; and there is sometimes a war felt in man , betwixt the two natures and principles , touching the manifestation of their own natures , either in good or evil , and man in himself may know it both in words , and deeds , and he may also know that many times he is overcome of the evil , and yields himself to its power and motion ; and the evil having got the dominion by mans yielding himself to obey it , then doth its nature manifest it self in evil words , and deeds ; then man may feel in himself that he hath transgressed the good , and with the good is reproved , and in himself is many times so judged , that he saith in his heart i will never speak such words again , nor do such deeds again ; yet he cannot thereby save himself , but as he joynes to the motion of the good , with the good to overcome evil in its conception ; and then coming to be actually disposed by the good , that which goeth out of him doth not defile him , for it is good both in thought , word , and deed . i do not hereby set up religion in a form or practise of any observation distinct from the principle of god ; neither dare i disown that practise which is observed in obedience to the motion of the principle , for they that do so will save the worser part alive ; and if man do not answer the principle of god , and obey it in all things that it manifests in him , either to be good , or evil ; and if he do not chuse the good , and deny the evil , after it be so made manifest , but that he love the evil more then the principle that doth discover it , that man must of necessity come under reproof of that principle which is good , which with its light discovered the evil to him , before he came to act it . so consider how this comes to pass , and how the distinction lies both in ground and manifestation , seeing that there is a manfestation lies outward , according to the natures of the principles within ; and by such manfestation it may be discerned which principle hath government in man , and unto which he is joyned ; and this judgement doth prove the principle , and not the manifestation or practise distinct from the principle ; and this judgement is not concluded upon suppositions , but upon good and sure ground , and doth give a certain sound with distinction , both to principle and practise ; i say this judgement doth not conclude supposedly , as such or such a thing may be practised in a true form distinct from the true principle , but it gives true judgement infallibly in the ground . and who judges according to appearance onely , and from thence conclude supposedly , that a true practise may be distinct from the true principle , and from that ground judge the true practise in general , which stands in the principle , they err in judgement : for though in some things there may be a practise manifest , and that practise may be distinct from the true principle , and yet in practise be the same outwardly , as that practise is which stands in the true principle ; yet this is not a sufficient ground , to judge the practise in general , as if no such practise should be manifested from the principle , nor observed in obedience to the principle , because such a practise may stand only in appearance , for the love of god is not so bounded , though some in their own bowels be so straitned , and thereby keep the seed from the universality of its own manifestation ; and such conclusions do add bondage to the pure in every place . and i do not hereby justifie any practise whatsoever , though it may stand in a true observation outwardly , which doth not come to pass through the motion of the true principle inwardly ; neither do i condemn , but do own , and stand by that practise which in the true principle is conceived , and through the motion of the principle is manifested , and in obedience observed ; and whoever judges the observation of this practice , they judge the power of god in the ground , because it is a practise observed in obedience to the motion of the power ; for as i know that regeneration doth lie wholly inward as to the work of it , so i also know , that being wrought and perfected , the seed of god doth manifest its own nature , which may be seen without ; and where it is not so , the seed is in bondage , and regeneration is not perfected . and who would know regeneration perfected , they must learn to stand still , and not to oppose the power by which regeneration is wrought and perfected , nor to reason against the operation of the power , for in doing so , they wrong themselves ; but in standing still , and eyeing the power in its motion , & obeying the power when it moveth , the power will call the reason into silence ; and having silenced the reason , it then hath a free course to work effectually ; and then the belief standing in the power , the power comes over every strong hold , and layes the fenced cities wast , and brings desolation upon every part of the oppressing nature , and strikes the whole body of it with death ; for with the power all things are possible . and this comes to pass in all that in the power believe ; and being come to pass and perfected , then is the seed raised , and in the seeds resurrection man becomes wholly changed and renewed , and both body , soul , and spirit glorifies god ; then doth the seed manifest it self in its perfect holiness , which holiness cannot own any manifestation of darkness ; and in this path is perfect peace and satisfaction ; for to be regenerated and born again , is a state beyond the strongest part of mans own reason , and is is a work which reason can never bring to pass , and therefore lies beyond it , and is not to be comprehended with that part ; but as the belief stands in the power , so the power worketh , and removeth that nature which hath oppressed , and the seed is raised in the power , and comes up in the power , and there is gods salvation felt and known , and all his fresh springs opens in his love and life , and the birth is nourished with his vertue , and feeds upon that which is good for food . and here is eating and living , feeding and rejoycing , the presence of the lord is felt , and fulness of joy in his presence , and his love , and life , and wisdom spreads abroad , and his pure nature is manifest in all good works , and hath a testimony against all the evil ; and the birth delights to do the fathers will , and doth not reason against his counsel , but 〈◊〉 a witness unto the truth , and against that which is out of the truth in every place . so let this be read in the fear of the lord god , and with a meek spirit in the love ; for it is love to the seed . and know that the living stone is the sure foundation , though the wise builders do reject it , and upon that the building is fitly ●●●med , and stands and rejoyces though many tempests blows upon it : and take heed of judas , for he betrayes with a kiss . from a lover of the seed of god universally . william smith . thou pure life , what is like unto thee ? thy path is peace , thy love is full and free : 〈◊〉 art the chiefest good , thy beauty doth excel : ●lessed are those that in thy bosom dwell . 〈◊〉 fulness of thy springs do satisfie the poor ● 〈◊〉 freshness of thy streams is alwayes rich in store : 〈…〉 of thy own hand doth take deep root in thee : 〈◊〉 supplies its tenderness , and sets it wholly free . 〈…〉 first and last , and there is not another : 〈…〉 liberty in thee , they do not thy life smother ; 〈…〉 love they spring , and in thy power stand ; 〈…〉 in life and peace , and rest safe in thy hand . the end an answer to a book called a just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers, and gospel-ordinances put forth by j.g. in which he pretends an answer to e.b.'s tryal of the ministers, and other things against the quakers. ...given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the kingdom of god, rich. hubberthorn hubberthorn, richard, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing h ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to a book called a just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers, and gospel-ordinances put forth by j.g. in which he pretends an answer to e.b.'s tryal of the ministers, and other things against the quakers. ...given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the kingdom of god, rich. hubberthorn hubberthorn, richard, - . , [ ] p. printed for robert wilson, at the sign of the black-spread-eagle and wind-mill, in martins p grand [sic], london : . a reply to: gaskin, john: a just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers. reproduction of the original in the friends' library, london. eng gaskin, john, fl. . -- just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers -- controversial literature -- early works to . society of friends -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . a r (wing h ). civilwar no an answer to a book called a just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers, and gospel-ordinances; put forth by j.g. in which he pretends hubberthorn, richard c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer to a book called a just defence and vindication of gospel-ministers , and gospel-ordinances ; put forth by j. g. in which he pretends an answer to e. b's . tryal of the ministers , and other things against the quakers . but on the contrary hath manifested , that he is altogether ignorant of the gospel-ministry and ordinance , as will appear to him that reads this answer , with desire to understand the truth ; and so to receive satisfaction . and instead of clearing the truth in any particular , he hath falsly charged god , christ , the holy spirit , the primitive churches and the quakers , with such things of which they were never any of them guilty , as will appear in the following testimony . given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the kingdom of god , rich. hubberthorn . the workers of inquity have no knowledge , there is no faithfulness in their mouth , their inward part is very wickedness , psa. . and with their words they shew forth the same . london printed for robert wilson , at the sign of the black-spread 〈◊〉 and wind-mill , in martins l'grand , . an answer to the priests defence . whatsoever is written or acted against the truth , and those that walk in it , is but a fulfilling of the scripture of truth , which saith , the way of the wicked is darkness , and they know not at what they stumble , prov. . . although the stumbling-stone be the light , the foundation of many generations ; in rejection of which many go about to build and would be approved , one of which i shall here mention . john gaskin , who would defend and vindicate the priests , their preaching , practice and maintenance , though contrary unto christ his apostles , his light and his words declared in scripture , as will appear . and first , that his testimony may be received , he begins in an appearance of faigned humility , and begging of pardon for his slips and impertenences and rudeness of stile , used against the quakers , saying , his work is not with eloquency , nor humane arts . in the examination of which , we do find that he hath often slipped , and used much impertenency of speech and rudeness of stile , and neither eloquency , spirituality or true humanity in his works , many of which being so plainly seen to all , is accounted not worth printing again ; but somthing here is mentioned , by which all the other may be compared and judged . again , divers reasons are alleadged as a cause of printing j. g. his defence of the priests , first he saith , the great malice and envy against the ministers , and the many letters and printed books sent by quakers , and the great growth and encrease in errors , and because many of his old friends and acquaintance are ( as he saith ) seduced from the church , and to strengthen such as are wavering through ignorance and weakness , and to clear himself , &c. and that it might be seen & come into many hands . answ. he that would accomplish those things before named , to wit , subdue malice and envy , and errors , and instruct the ignorant , and him that is out of the way , and strengthen the weak , he must be such a one as is led by the spirit , and walks in the light of christ , which is so much hated and contemned by priests and their defenders ; that first those things may be subdued in themselves , and then minister against them in others ; but none of those things can be done by that spirit which hath ruled in j. g. but that his latter reasons , which he saith , moved him to print , may be fulfilled ; that 〈…〉 that it may be seen , and come into many hands ; and that to thy own shame , when they read and consider thy unlearned lodgick , wherein thou goest to prove , that it is not sufficient to bring us to heaven to be freed from fin ; for thou saist , a horse hath no sin ; and so by thy comparison a man without sin , is but as a horse ; so that thou hast truly said , thy work is without eloquence or humane art : but seeing thou hast taken in hand to put things to publick view , in thy next prove , who those men are upon the earth that are without sin , & are not sufficient for the kingdom of heaven ; and whether was it any thing that did separate man from god , but sin ? and was not christ onely made manifest to take away sin ? and is not man perfectly righteous , when his sin is taken away and made the righteousness of god in him , which takes it away , to wit , the lamb of god , which all the nations of them that are saved , must walk in his light ? and it is those that hate the light , and is against freedom from sin , that have no understanding of the mysteries of god , which is like the horse or mule , whose mouth must be held with bit and bridle , and are like the beast that perish ; but they that are freed from sin , are not so , neither is the horse their comparison ; but herein thou hast shamed thy self and thy ministers , that they should be so ignorant , as neither to teach thee better doctrine before thou didst write , nor correct thee when thou hadst written ; but to suffer such a thing to appear in this nation , where light is broken forth , that the state of freedom from sin , is no better than the state of a horse ; but as the scriptures saith , your folly shall be made manifest unto all men ; which scripture is daily fulfilling , and we are satisfied in it . again , to ●ndicate the priests of england to be ministers of the gospel , thou bringst many scriptures , whereby thou wouldst prove them to be lawfully called , though they be out of the power of god , and want the power of that which they teach , page . as the sons of eli ( thou saist ) were lawful priests , though they were wicked men ; and this is a fit comparison , as thou may read in the first of samuel . . . now the sons of eli were sons of belial , they knew not the lord ; and so according to this , thou hast rightly compared the priests ; for though they have the name of being called , yet know they the lord no more than the sons of belial did . again in the same page thou saist , the scribes and pharisees were called to teach , and judas was a true apostle ; from which thou wouldst prove the call of the priests to be a true call to the ministry . answ. if the priests did minister as truly as the scribes and pharisees did ; that is , read or speak the scriptures truly , then thou mighest exhort the people , to do as the priests say , but not to do as they do ; but seeing that they do not truly speak the scripture , but by consequences pervert it , as thou hast done in thy book ; it is not therefore a good doctrine , to bid the people either do as they say , or as they do , because they both say falsly & do falsly ; and as for thy comparing of them to judas , as for his being called and receiving part of the ministry ; that , they are not like unto him in , because as yet they have no part nor lot in that matter ; but for his treachery and covetousness , bearing the bag , and betraying the lord of life , for pieces of money , in that , they may be compared to him . but thou saist , the wickedness of the person doth not disanul his office , being lawfully called thereunto , until he be degraded from that office ; and to prove it , thou bring'st several scriptures , as ezekiel . . where the shepheards eat the fat and cloath with the wool , and did not feed the flock ; esa. . , . they are dumb dogs that cannot bark , sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber , they all look to their own way , every one for his gain from his quarter , come ye ( say they ) i will fetch wine , and we will fill our selves with strong drink , and to morrow shall be as this day , and much more abundant ; and these , saist thou , were truly called . from which example your ministers , as thou thus provest , are lawfully called to the work of the ministry ; but when these ministers and people read thy book , they will not much commend thee for such a defence for them ; but how dost thou prove that those before mentioned were lawfully called unto the work of the ministry , being wicked persons ? but when thou read'st the scripture over again , thou maist see that those are such as the lord said , did run and he sent them not , and said , the lord saith , when he had not spoken unto them , jer. . . now in this vindication , thou hast not done any thing of that pretented confuting e. b. his book called a just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age ; but hast rather confirmed it , for he truly compared them unto those spoken of before mentioned , and thou hast compared them , as to the sons of eli , which were sons of belial , and knew not god ; and so his book yet stands in force ( for a tryal to such ) unanswered . and again as for thy pleading for tythes for such as are like the sons of belial , thou hast no precept , practice nor example in scripture to plead for such a thing , neither as such , nor as the ministers of christ . and whereas thou mention'st , act. and act. . and cor. . , , &c. these scriptures , speak nothing of tythes , nor of any maintenance to the ministry ; but onely how that when they had planted a vineyard , they might eat of the fruit ; and when they had gathered a flock , might eat of the milk ; and when they had sown spiritual things ( amongst a people ) they had power to eat and power to drink ; and so it was ordained that they who preached the gospel should live of the gospel ; but it was not ordained that those who preached the gospel , should live by forced maintenance , or by making merchandize of mens goods and estates , of which the priests in england , for which thou writest this defence , are guilty . again , thou goest about to defend the prie●ts sprinkling of infants , saying , it is a sign or seal of salvation , page . answ. if this be true that all children thus sprinkled with water , have the seal of salvation by the resurrection of jesus christ , & are by this baptism made partakers of grace , and united into the church as members of the church ; why do you say both priests and professors , that there is no falling from grace ? have not many been so engrafted into the church , and received that seal , whom you now call hereticks and deceivers ? why do you so confound one principle with another , for we have been already so ingrafted into the visible church , and made partakers of that grace , which you say , its impossible to fall from . and thou bring'st calvins words , which saith , that although there be but a little water cast upon our heads , yet notwithstanding it is not a vain figure , for the heavens are opened upon us , and god speaks in it , as it were from heaven , and christ is there present with his blood , as witnesses of the usage and operation of the sacrament , and saith , baptism is a token and proof of our cleansing , or a seal and character whereby god confirmeth unto us that all our sins are cancelled and abolished , and that they may never be rehearsed nor imputed . so then by this he that hath a little water cast on his head , he hears god speak in it , and christ being present with his blood , washes away all sin ; and this is a proof of his cleansing . so , why dost thou and the priests speak and write against us , as being fallen from grace , or departed from the truth , seeing we have received as well as you , the seal of the covenant and proof of cleansing ; and cannot fall from it , if your doctrine be true ; but as for spinkling infants , thou hast not brought one scripture to prove it ; but saist baxter against tombes hath proved it , and quotest calvin and beza , as if their words were plainer proof for thy purpose , then any scripture ; for there is no scripture without invented consequences , that is a precept for it ; and when thou hast wearied thy self and canst not prove it , thou saist , whatsoever may be proved from the scripture by consequence , to be the scope and meaning of the scripture , is sufficient proof , page . again thou askest us a question , to shew thee one command or example in the scripture , for the baptizing of those that are growen up , whose parents one or both were christians by professing the gospel of christ . answ. if thou knew the scriptures , or didst weigh thy own words , it would stop thee from asking such foolish & unlearned questions ; for thou thy self confessest , that those which were growen up were baptized , and that they had also received the holy ghost before they were baptized ; and as for them , or their parents , being called christians by their profession , many beleivers were baptised and followed christ , before the name christians was given to them , as thou may read acts . . that after much people was gathered , and so become churches , they were first called christians at antioch , so whatsoever their parents were called by profession , that is nothing to that which thou art about to prove ( sprinkling of infants ) but to conclude thy proof for infants baptism , thou quotes rob. brook , who thou sayst hath read more ecclesiasticall histories to find out the rise and beginning of baptism of infants in the church of christ then all the quakers , and yet he could ne●er find the beginning of it ; so here all this while thou hast pleaded for that , which thou knowest not , who was the first author of ; and so thou hast run out thy self into meer ignorance : but that thou maist be informed & made wiser than thy teachers , & thy learned readers of ecclesiastical historyes , i shall shew thee the beginning of that baptism , and who first invented holy water , in the reign of pope alexander , was holy water first invented , water mixed with salt , and by the saying of these words , we bless water mixed with salt among the people , that all men sprinkled therewith may be sanctified , and purified , and this we command all priests to do , as plynny writeth . and hereby thou mayest know the first father or inventor of this your practise ; the pope and not the apostles , so when thou writes again do not so undervallew al the quake's , as thou hast done in this thy book , as to say that they dare not read latine books , nor have read histories , and thou sayest , we count it a sinn for ministers to learn latine : but these are but false aspersions , for we do not account it sinn to learn latine , greek , or hebrew , neither are we afraid to read them , but we so far do read and know them , that we have found out the priests deceipt , by pretending that of the tongues which they had not ; and though you preach and practise that which you know not where it had it's beginning , yet we know how deceit came in , and how it hath overspread you with darknesse and ignorance , and because you see not , therefore you judge us to be blind , but the light of knowledge is arisen , in which we see before the pope , his holy water mingled with salt or sprinkling infants was , and see the beginning , and end of those dark inventions , and our doctrine , and principles , tends to the bringing of people , to know a true living foundation for all their practices , and that the darknesse of popery , and traditions of men may not alwayes keep people in blindnesse ; to practise the popes inventious , instead of the apostles and christ doctrine , who by the bright shining of his light is leading people to his baptism , which is by one spirit into one body , by fire and by the holy-ghost , and such can no longer be kept in that , which doth not so much as wash away the filth of the flesh , but comes to the answer of a good conscience , and witnesseth the baptism which saveth , as the apostle peter saith , pet. . . and such are come to the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost . again , to fill up thy book thou hast charged many false things upon us , and so findst thy self work , by enlarging thy lyes one after another . as first thou sayst some of us have affirmed that christ did never arise from the grave , and that his body is rotted within the grave , and that some of us have made a mock of his doctrine of justification , by the imputation and the intercession of christ . answ. these things are thy own , and were never affirmed by any of us ; but on the contrary that christ is arisen from the dead and is become our first fruits , and by the imputation and intercession are we justified , and of god is he made unto us justification and life . again thou saist , we neither know nor understand what your ministers preach . answ. yes , we both know and understand , that they preach lyes in the name of the lord , and we know and understand that thou art going about to make a defence and vindication for them in so doing . again thou sayst the quakers say , it matters not whether a man doe any good works , seeing they make him not good : page . answ. this is false , for none of the quakers ever said so ; for our goodnesse is of the lord and not of works , and because we have received goodnesse and mercy from him therefore doe we those things that please him , and are obedient to his will and commands , again , page ( . ) that we say a man is saved by hearkning to the light within him and obeying the same . answ. we never said that by hearkning or obeying , that man is saved ; but by him which they are to hear and obey are they saved , and without hearkning to his voyce , and obeying of him to whom he is preached , there is no salvation . again page . thou sayst the quakers instead of blessing and praying for their enemies , curse them answ. this is false for we blesse , and curse not , but all cursed practices , words , and actions , we testifie against , and for this cause are we accounted thy enemies , because we tell thee the truth . again , page ( . ) thou sai●t instead of abhorring our selves , we justify our selves . answ. this is of the number of the rest a false accusation , for selfe is that , which we beare witnesse against in all , justifying nothing but what god justifieth , and condemning nothing but what god condemneth . again , page . thou sayest the quakers are so proud to think , and say , they are more perfect then the apostle paul . answ. when did any of the quakers say , they were more perfect then the apostle ? but it seems thy tongue is at liberty to make a refuge for the priests , and fill a volume of paper with lyes . again , page ( ) thou sayst , that many of the quakers go up and down naked , to manifest that they are as perfect , as adam was in innocency . answ. their going naked is as a sign unto thee , & the priests , whom the lord is now stripping of the sheeps cloathing , that all may see your shame and nakednesse , and that which you have been covered with is but as leaves , and a formal notional profession of god , without his life , power or spirit , and you must be as naked from this covering , before you be innocent , as ever any quaker hath been from their cloaths . again , page ( . ) thou sayest that we do condemn not only the churches now in being ; but all that ever have been ; the churches of asia , corin●h , galatia , and thessalonica , &c. answ. this is but an addition to thy former lyes , for those churches we do own , and all such as do walk in their life , and are guided by their spirit , for the church of the thessalonians was in god , thes. . but thou hast appeared to be of another spirit , and hast manifested thy self to be a condemner of those churches , as well as of us , as in page . thou saist in the church at corinth that there was such corrupt members among them , as you can scarce find in the worst of your congregations . so of that which thou falsly chargest us , thou art truly guilty thy self , and so hast condemned those churches , and iustified your selves : but what corruption was it that was so bad in those churches , that is not in the worst of your congregations . again , as a proof for thy condemning your own churches , thou brings brightmans , words saying , behold whatsoever is first , that is true , and whatsoever is later , that is false , chap. . page . so that hereby , by thy old author and logick , thou hast proved all your churches in england to be false , for the churches of asia , corinth , galatia , and thessalonica , these were the first ; but the churches in england episcopal and presbytery , these are latter , therefore false . again , pag . thou sayest , the quakers say they are so perfect , that they cannot grow in knowledge nor grace . answ. the quakers never said so , but on the contrary , we do grow in knowledge and in grace , whereby we se , and comprehend , how thou and the preists do grow in rage , enmity , and false accusations against us , and we know also , that you must fulfil your measure of iniquity , and that all manner of evil must be spoken against us falsly , and so we are satisfied , because we suffer not for evill doing , but for well doing . again , page . thou chargest us not to obey the commands of christ , but do teach men to break his commands ; twice in one page , and again in the next page . answ. all which doth but prove and manifest thy unbridled tongue , under which is the poyson of aspes , but if thou , or any other could in meeknesse and simplicity prove , that wee have either broken any of his commands , or taught others to break them ; then we would be convinced , and thou should be counted a reprover and instructer in righteousnesse ; but on the contrary we see , that bitternesse and a lying spirit hath possessed thee , and that thou only invents and imagines false things to fil up thy book , which we were never guilty of , which never any sober man , that had but the parts of a man , would ever lay to our charge , seeing , that both our principles , and practices , witnesseth to the contrary . again , to make thy vollume large , in page . thou brings the same lyes over again , charging us to say , that we are more fuller of the spirit then the apostles , and of more knowledge , and stronger in faith then the apostles . which affirmation is thy own , and not ours ; and therefore is returned back to be condemned , where it did arise . in page . thou saist , the quakers will have no order ; and page . thou saist , we are wise in our own conceit , and that we think our selves , wiser than christ , or his apostles , or churches . all which is but multiplying lyes , and so not worth much speaking unto , but onely that people may see , how thou hast run out thy self till thou hast no order over thy tongue , nor over thy pen , which hast been so long time , as above half a year , in adding lye , unto lye , to make a defence for the priests ; and so it appears that truth will not defend them ; and thy defence of lyes , will not long defend them ; for god will sweep away the refuge of lyes , and he that loveth and telleth a lye ( as thou hast done ) hath no part in the kingdom of god . in page . thou accusest sara blackborow , as concerning a woman speaking in the church , as if she had said that the flesh was the woman ; from which thou concludes , that then the flesh must be married to christ , and so would make up absurdities from thy own words . answ. this is thy ordinary way of proving errour , first to affirm a lye of thy own making , charging it upon another , and then draw a conclusion , answering this lye : but sara blackborow , nor any other of the quakers , have ever said , that the flesh was the woman : but that which sara blackborow said , was , that the flesh was to be silent , and that which spoke in thee , was that which was silly , and was ever learning ; but when any doth pray or prophesie , whether man or woman , and speak forth that which god hath made manifest ; that is , the spirit of the father in both , and is not to be quenched , for there is neither male nor female , but all is one in christ and in the spirit , from which preaching and prophesying proceeds ; and the promise is , that daughters as well as sons shall prophesie : and in the church at corinth they might all prophesie one by one , that all might hear , and all might be edified ; but thou saist , those women that did prophesie , it was not in the church ; where then did they prophesie , if not in the church ? or what was the church ? for it is written , thes. . . that the church is in god ; and where must a woman be when she prayes or prophesies , if not in the church which is in god ? and where was it that philips four daughters prophesied , whether in the church or out of it ? and where was it that that priscilla did minister , whether in the church or out of it ? and pheba , a servant of the church , whether she might not pray nor prophesie in it ? and priscilla , who was a helper of paul in christ , and laboured with him in the gospel , rom. . might not pray or prophesie in the church ? but now to speak the truth in plainness to thee , that which thou cavel'st against ; is not the woman nor the man , simply considered , but it is the spirit speaking in either , which thou cannot bear ; for where the spirit of the father speaks in man or woman , thou sets thy self against it to oppose it . and thou saist , susan bond said , christ was the husband , and of him they were to be taught ; and thou saist , sara blackborow did like the answer well . answ. who could like it ill ? was not that a good answer ? and thou thy self must own christ to be thy teacher , and learn of him , before ever god will make use of thee in his service or work , though the priests may make use of thee for their defender . again page . thou saist , we deny that any should either rule in the church , or have any honour . answ. no , we do not deny the head of the church , which is christ , to rule , and to have all the honour ; but we deny any priest to bear rule by his means , or to receive the honour due unto christ ; for we see they are such as seek honour of one another , and not the honour which belongs to god onely . now whereas thou goes about to vindicate , that wicked men may sing psalmes ; and to prove it , makes this argument , if any be merry , let him sing psalms ; now wicked men are merry as well as godly , though they haue no true cause , ergo . page . answ. this logick doth but prove , thy own ignorance and darknesse , & not the thing intended by thee , as we shall shew ; but first to answer thee with thy own contradiction ; dost thou not say in the next words before this argument , that the chief ground ( or cause ) is , the moral duty lying upon all men by the commandment of god ? now if wicked men , do sing psalmes by the commandment of god , do they do it without a true cause ? is not the commandment of god , a true cause of any action to them which are commanded by him ? but in this thou art but building again that which thou hast destroyed , and so makes thy self a transgressor , and so let thy own confusion correct thee ; in the same page thou sayst , thou wilt make good what thou hast written by scripture ; come then here we shall try thee ; where in the scripture dost thou prove , that wicked men may be merry and sing psalmes , though they have no true cause ? but on the contrary hast thou not read in the scriptures , ps. . that david was the song of the drunkards : and if drunkards now in taverns and ale-houses say & sing , i am not puft in mind , i have no scornful eye ; and say , that as a weaned child they have behaved themselves ; by thy argument , if they be never so wicked , yet , because they are merry in their wickedness , they may s●ng lyes in the name of the lord ; & by thy argument be justified , as men doing onely that which god had commanded them . and again thou maist read in scripture . joel . . that such wicked men and drunkards were called to weep and bowl , for their misery was coming upon them ; so the prophet did not call them to sing davids psalms , because they were merry in their wickednesse , as thou hast done ; and again thou may read in amos. . . that the songs of the temple shall be turned into bowling , and these wicked men in the temple were merry , and by thy argument might sing psalmes or spirituall songs ; but the prophet saith instead of singing they must bowl and come to bitter lamentation ; & praise is not comely in the mouth of fooles , as the wise man saith who is taught of god , but the mouth of a fool poureth forth his folly , and the instruction of fools is folly , pro. . . and this script●●●e we se fulfilled in thee ; for thy instructing of fooles and wicked men , because they are merry in their wickednesse , they may sing psalmes as a command from god ; and herein i have answer'd a fool according to his foly , least he should be wise in his own conceit ; and although david calleth all gods host , and all living things made and created to praise the lord , the sun , moon , and stars , the heavens , and the waters , the earth , the dragons and the deeps , fire , haile , snow , and vapor , stormes and wind fulfilling his word , mountains and hills , and fruitfull trees , all beasts , cattle , creeping things , and flying fowles , kings of the earth , and all people , &c. and now as david was in the covenant , he saw the creatures as they stood in their covenant , uncorrupted : and so in a fit capacity to praise the lord , only man degenerated and unrestored again into the covenant , he saw it was not comely for him to praise , nor to pray , nor to take gods words in his mouth , nor to speak of his statutes ; so far , from justifying thy argument , that wicked men because they are merry therefore may sing psalmes , but when the priests or people , takes notice of thy book , and what logick thou hast learned to jutify the wicked in their singing , as well as the godly , and how thou hast shamed both thy self and them , with such foolish confusion , and university logick , its like they will set thee no more awork , to defend and vindicate them with such weapons . again , page . thou saist , that it is said by the prophet prov. . . that the ploughing of the ploughman is sinn . answ. here thou hast belyed the prophet , and perverted his words , as thou hast done the quakers ; for the prophers words is these , an high look , and a proud heart , and the ploughing of the wicked is sin ; but he doth not say that the ploughing of the ploughman is sin ; but who can escape the envy of slandrous tongues , which accounteth lying no sin , if thereby they can accomplish their own wicked ends ? but the truth hath found thee out and made thee manifest , and the priests had better a wanted thy defence , then to be so shamed by it ; as they will be , unless they deny both thee and it . again , in the same page thou saist , to hear , read , pray , sing psalmes , and giving of thanks , they are works morally good being commanded by the lord ▪ but the person doing them , being not justified , they are not good to him : for whatsoever is not of faith is sin . answ. this is another piece of confusion , and charging of god foolishly and falsly , to say that the lord commands those things to be done , and those he commands to do them , in doing of which it is not good to them but sin ; where hast thou learned ? or where dost thou read of such a doctrine , that wicked men are commanded of god , to do such things , which in doing is not good to them but sin ? is god or christ then the minister of sin , or commands a man to conmit sin ? is not this blasphemy & error in the highest degree ? and how daest thou speak of god , or of his commands , or of his obedience , seeing thou thus blasphems him in his worship ? but this shall remain as a testimony against thee ; many other lyes and abominations hast thou spoken against us , and against god and his truth ; a few of which is sufficient to make thee manifest . in page ( . ) thou saist , our quaking fits , many are of opinion that they are diabolicall , by a kind of witcheraft , and said , thou hast heard strange relations of enchanted ribbons , and giving drink after , &c. answ. upon the same account , many was of opinion , that christ had a devill , and was a deceiver , and that the apostles were ring-leaders of sects , & heresyes , and such strange relations might have been heard concerning the apostles in their dayes ; and it seemes to thee , that such reports is sufficient proofe , but this is contrary , to what thou hast said in an other place , that thou wouldst speake nothing , but according to what was written in the scriptures ; and whereas thou tells of enchanted ribbons , is there some ribbons that are enchanted ? it may be thou meaneth enchanting ribbons , but if so , where didst thou ever know such a thing , and for proofe , thou names gilpin and toldervyes books , which neither of them doth relate such a thing , so that it is thy enmity & wickednesse , for there was never any such thing among the quakers , as giving ribbans , and drink after ; but that charge thou might haue laid upon the priests and their defenders , for there are the most ribbons used & justified , till in pride they are become the servants of the devill , and there is the giving of drink one to another untill they be enflamed , and made unsensible of god and of his fear , by which they are enchanted , and bewitched , that they doe not obey the gospell , but are given up to their owne hearts lusts , and thereby are become the servants of sin and so free from righteousnesse . lastly , not only we , have been falsly accused in these and many other things by thee ; but even the spirit of god , which is the fountain of cleannesse , is by thee charged and accused to be corrupt , an defiled page . by passing through mans corrupt nature ( thou saist ) becomes defiled . answ. is not this a sin against the holy ghost , which shall never be forgiven , to charge the spirit to be corrupt and defiled ? and in this thou also chargeth both the father , and the son , to be corrupt & defiled , for they are one , so that if one of them be corrupt , the other is corrupt also , and as the spirit is in the saints , so is the father in them , and the son , the hope of their glory , and none of them are defiled by mans corrupt nature . but there is that in man , by which that which corrupteth his nature is wrought out , so that man is made clean and undefiled by the spirit , and that spirit is not made corrupt and defiled by man ; for that is contrary to the scripture , to say , that by mans nature the spirit is defiled ; but to say , that by the spirit mans nature is cleansed , and sanctified , this is according to the scripture : but it is the work of sathan and his messengers to blasphem god in his temple , and so account his spirit ( by which he leadeth into all truth ) an unholy thing ; and so thou art of the number of them , which account the blood , and spirit of the covenant an unholy thing ; and we seeing and knowing these things , as concerning our selves we are satisfied , because the servant is not abo●e his master ; for if the master be called belzebub , and the spirit a defiled or corrupt thing , well may wee be called deceivers , ( although we be true ) and falsly accused with all manner of evil , according to our masters words ; and these things we should bear in patience and silence , as to our selves , but as in respect unto others , we are constrained , by the uncorrupted and undefiled spirit of the lord , to testifie to the world , that their deeds are evil , and to manifest the workings of sathan in the mystery of iniquity , which now already worketh in many , justifying the wicked , and condemning the just , which is abomination to the lord , which his spirit will not bear unreproved ; and not onely the just men are condemned and falsly accused , but also the just undefiled , eternal , and unerring spirit , is accused by him , who makes a defence for the priests in their unrighteous practices and wages ; so by the plain evidence and demonstration of truth , he being made manifest to be an enemy to god , and by his wicked works and words , i do judge him not worthy of much more answer to his book ; and also i do judge him not able to prove any of the false accusations charged in it against us , some of which is herein returned unto him again , which when he doth but really weigh it and consider , it may be , he will sit down in silence , and wait , if there may be hope of his forgiveness for this ( not onely ignorance , but ) wilfulness , charging us , the spirit of god , and his people , with that , of which they were never guilty ; for we are in the truth , unto which every tongue shall confess , and by which every opposer shall become silent before the lord ; and in the spirit of this truth do we desire not the di●●ruction , but the repentance and forgiveness of our enemies ; and those that do abuse us and wrong us ignorantly , their sins will be sooner blotted out , then those who wilfully have set their hearts and tongues to work wickedness , for they shall receive the greater condemnation . the knowledge and life of truth , is that we desire all people may come into , that by it the power of the wicked one may be taken away , which so furiously worketh in the hearts of those , which receives not the truth in the love of it , but brings forth floods of enmity & bitterness against the lambs of christ ; but the love of god which thinketh no evil , neither doth any unto another , is that which when it is felt & obeyed in all , will dry up those floods from off the face of the earth , that there may be a place of rest for the redeemed and elect seed , who onely hath the lord and his light for their habitation , and the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god , for their armour and defence . the end . to the monthly and quarterly meetings of friends in england, wales, london, the twenty six day of the sixth month, . society of friends. meeting for sufferings. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the monthly and quarterly meetings of friends in england, wales, london, the twenty six day of the sixth month, . society of friends. meeting for sufferings. whitehead, george, ?- . sheet ([ ] p.). s.n., [s.l. : ] signed: george whitehead, samuell waldenfield, john vaughton, william bingley, john feild. reproduction of original in: friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- ireland -- early works to . society of friends -- charities -- early works to . society of friends -- england -- congresses -- early works to . charities -- ireland -- early works to . broadsides -- england -- london -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the monthly , and quarterly meetings of friends , in england and wales ; london , the twenty six day of the sixth month , . dear friends and brethern , with our dear and tender love to you , and all the faithful in christ jesus : these are to acquaint you , that since our late printed epistle from our meeting for sufferings , for a collection for our poor distressed friends in ireland , we have had divers accounts from thence by letters , both of their disposal of what hath been already sent them from hence ; and also how little away it went , when distributed to the many particulars towards their supply ; however , friends love and care for them here is very acceptable to them . we find they are very charitable and tender one towards another ; in so much , that although the calamity was general , and very heavy upon them , that those that had something left , who were but few in number , did readily contribute to them that wanted present subsistance , by several large collections among themselves . and they considering our charges here in england was great , have been the more tender and backward to apply to friends here for relief , altho but few friends there can administer to such a great number of friends , who are in a very poor and low condition , and many in great want ; some having lost all , the very cloathes off their backs . their general loss hath been computed to amount to about fifty thousand pounds , and their number not more then friends in yorkshire . now dear brethren , the intent of reminding you of these things , is , to intreat you in the love of god , and tender compassion to these our suffering friends and brethren , zealously to stir up friends in your respective meetings , to a speedy and liberal contribution , according to our aforesaid epistle , considering their distressed case , as if it were your own ; and remembering their liberality , and christian charity to friends in england , when under sore persecutions , their present necessities being so great , requiring a speedy supply , that this meeting hath already been constrained to borrow one thousand pounds , to remit thither for their present relief , upon the credit of this said collection ; yet we are perswaded the said sum will fall far short of supplying their great necessities ; we therefore hope you will take all speedy care , effectually to hasten the said collection . signed by order and on behalf of the meeting for sufferings , george whitehead , samuell waldenfield , john vaughton , william bingley , john feild . at our meeting for sufferings the , d day of the th month , . this meeting desiring that the friends in the counties , and particuler meetings , be acquainted of the renewed accounts we received , of the nessesities of our dear friends in ireland , we have hinted at in the letter above written , have ordered the same to be printed , that friends may the more generally have it , and have accordingly now signed the same . william ingram , john staploe , alexander s●aton , john kilbourn , joseph wasye , theodor eccleston , william crouch , thomas cox , henry gouldney , michael russell , samuel waldenfield , john constantine , henry lombe , daniel monro , daniel roberts , daniel quare , daniel wharley , john hall , john fiddeman , john cade , anthony alexander , josiah ellis , john vaughton , john feild . a just defence and vindication of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances against the quakers many false accusations, slanders and reproaches. in ansvver to john horwood his letter, and e.b. his book, called, a just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age, and several others. proving the ministers calling and maintenance just and lawful, and the doctrine of perfection by free justification, preached by them, agreeable to the scriptures. vvith the quakers objections answered. and the quakers perfection by hearkning to, and obeying a light within them, proved contrary to the scriptures. and their practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the commands and examples of christ and his apostles. by a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances. gaskin, john, fl. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a just defence and vindication of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances against the quakers many false accusations, slanders and reproaches. in ansvver to john horwood his letter, and e.b. his book, called, a just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age, and several others. proving the ministers calling and maintenance just and lawful, and the doctrine of perfection by free justification, preached by them, agreeable to the scriptures. vvith the quakers objections answered. and the quakers perfection by hearkning to, and obeying a light within them, proved contrary to the scriptures. and their practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the commands and examples of christ and his apostles. by a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances. gaskin, john, fl. . [ ], p. printed by w.g. for the author, and are to be sold by isaac pridmore at the signe of the golden falcon neer the new exchange, london : . a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances = john gaskin. partly in response to edward burrough's "a just and lawful trial of the teachers & professed ministers of england, by a perfect proceeding against them". with marginal notes. reproduction of the original at the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng burrough, edward, - . -- just and lawful trial of the teachers & professed ministers of england, by a perfect proceeding against them -- early works to . society of friends -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a just defence and vindication of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances against the qvakers many false accusations , slanders and reproaches . in ansvver to john horwood his letter , and e. b. his book , called , a just and lawful tryal of the ministers and teachers of this age , and several others . proving the ministers calling and maintenance just and lawful , and the doctrine of perfection by free justification , preached by them , agreeable to the scriptures . vvith the quakers objections answered . and the quakers perfection by hearkning to , and obeying a light within them , proved contrary to the scriptures . and their practices in ten particulars proved contrary to the commands and examples of christ and his apostles . by a lover of gospel ministers and gospel ordinances . contend earnestly for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints , jude . now , as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so do these also resist the truth ; men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith . but they shall proceed no further , for their folly shall be manifested to all men , as theirs was , tim. . , . london , printed by w. g. for the author , and are to be sold by isaac pridmore at the signe of the golden falcon neer the new exchange ▪ . the epistle to the reader . christian reader , i know it will seem strange that i should spend so much time in writing an answer to those people called quakers ; for i confess it seemeth strange to my self . for when i first entered upon this work , i did not in the least intend to have written so much , nor that which was written should have come to publick view in print . i shall therefore give the grounds or reasons , moving me both to write , and to publish what i had written . wherefore know , that the first reason moving me to undertake this worke , was because of that great malice and envie against the ministers at that time . when the black cloud appeared , the quakers , anabaptists , and other sectaries , threatning the utter ruine of our ministers ; not onely by their reviling reproaches , false accusations , and the like , but by their labouring to get hands to petition those then in authoritie , to take away their maintenance setled by law , and that because they were no lawfull ministers ; as is expressed in one of their printed papers , presented to those then in authoritie : and by those many pamphlets printed against tithes and our present ministery ; published by the quakers and anabaptists ; and when those failed , by getting the army to joyn with them to turn the parliament men out , and setting up themselves in their stead to rule all by their giddy heads ; theatning that now all the priests should be turned out as unprofitable burthens to the common-wealth : notwithstanding all this , the misters were for the most part silent , not willing to foul their pens by writing against such a wild generation ; but in patience committed their cause unto god by prayer , who hath in some measure answered them . for whose sake , next my lord and master jesus christ , i did undertake this work , hoping they and all others will except of my poor weak endeavours , and pass by my weaknesses wherein i have slipped , either in impertinences or otherwise ; nor regard the rudeness of my stile , but look on the scope and end of my poor labours to maintain a gospel ministery , and gospel ordinances , although defended without eloquence or humane arts ; in which i hope i have pleased the adversaries , though i despise them in other things . the second reason was , because of those many letters and printed books sent unto me by several quakers , some of themselves reporting they are unanswerable . and considering what solomon the wise saith , answer a fool according to his folly , lest he be wise in his own conceit . and i perceive the not answering these men , is one ground of their self-confidence , and being wise in their own conceit . and although this answer be plain , without humane art or eloquence , yet considering , that the persons with whom i have to deal are such as despise all such learning , and mock at universities , and colledges . i suppose this answer may best fit their spirits , coming from a private person , who hath not the help of outward learning and tongues no more then themselves , of w ch they boast that they can write so many books without those humane helps , and that what the priests ( as they call them ) write , that is only by their humane learning , which they think is ground sufficient for them not to regard what is written by them : but i hope they will have so much regard as to read what i have written , seeing we are on even terms in that particular . the third reason of writing and publishing this answer , because of the great growth and increase of these errors , by reason of the diligence of the devils instruments , in writing and printing so many books , to spread abrode their errors ; some of them have affirmed in my hearing , that there is a thousand of their erronious books printed every week , and most of them given away on purpose to delude ignorant people , and that there are above thirty thousand quakers in england , and that within less then . yeers they shall stop the mouths of all our priests , as they call them , they having but one string left to their bow , and that gods sword was now drawn to cut that , and then they are gone ; wherefore considering the great diligence of these men and women for promoting of errour , not only by writing and printing their erronious books , but by their diligence in running or going about from one place to another to spread their errors , not onely in england , but in ireland , scotland , barbadus , and new england , holland , and other places . i was ashamed to see how cold and backward we are in opposing their errors , and defending the truth of the gospel ministerie , and gospel ordinances , against the many assaults of the adversaries ; and is it not a shame , that sectaries should be more zealous in promoting the kingdom of the devil , then we are in promoting the kingdome of jesus christ ? and yet how many of us have solemnly ingaged our selves by oath or covenant to indeavour the extirpation of superstition , herisie , schism , prophaneness , and whatsoever shall be found to be contrary to sound doctrine , and the power of godliness , lest we partake in other mens sins and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues ? the consideration of which , hath been a chief motive to undertake this work , and to cast in my mite , others having brought forth out of their treasure . the fourth reason moving me to under take this work , and publish the same , was , because many of my old friends & acquaintance are seduced from the truth to these errors , of whom i may say as the prophet david said , we took sweet counsel together , and went unto the publick assemblies together ; and not onely friends and acquaintance , but some of near relation , for whom the bond of nature bindeth me to endeavour their recalling back , and the rather , because i believe in charity , that they are honest hearted , and strict in their lives , and yet through ignorance , and the fair shews and pretences of a strict holy life , are seduced and drawn away ; but i hope , not so far gone , but that they may be reclaimed and brought back to the truth : to that end i desire them seriously to examine what i have written by the scriptture rule , and if they can shew me my error by that , and that their religion is more agreeable thereunto , i shall lay down all my weapons and joyn with them , for i strive not for victory , but for truth ; but if they cannot , i hope they will remember from whence they are faln , and repent and do their first works : but if any of them are so obstinate , that they will go on in their delusions , my soul shall mourn for them in secret , but i hope better things , at least of some . the fifth reason why i writ and published this , was to strengthen such as are wavering through ignorance and weakness . for i observe , that when the quakers come into a parish to vent their errors , many ignorant people are ready to hearken to their errors , and be taken with their pretended shews of zeal and holiness ; and when they see none to oppose them , nor answer them , they are ready to think and say , it it is , because they are unanswerable , which i have heard some say in the place where i live , the which did move me to enter into disputation with them several times , until they gave over their meetings there ; and what i have written is the same that was spoken in reasoning with them more inlarged ; and i hope the reading hereof may be a means to stablish and settle some that are wavering , and keep them from those baits and snares which are laid to draw and catch them by these seducers . the sixth reason was to clear my self from those lies and slanders raised by some quakers , as that they laid me in the dirt , and that because i was not able to answer them , i was a great persecutor of them ; the truth of which i refer to the impartial reader to judge , and some of them have reported , that i am faln from those principles , that i formerly held and and published in a treatise of the grounds of religion , called the christians profession , the truth of which , i refer to those that have read the same , & that shal read this : and although i know it is their usal manner to revile and slander all that oppose them in their wild opinions ; yet i see too many are apt to believe what they say , because of their pretended shew of holiness , and some think them so perfect that they cannot erre : wherefore lest my silence should be taken for a confession of being guilty , i thought it necessary to publish this , to clear clear my innocencie : for if a man be bound by the law to pleasure the good name and credit of his neighbour , surely he is bound by the same law to preserve his own . lastly , the reasons moving me to publish this in print , was first , the desire and request of several friends to whom i was ingaged to grant their desires , in what might be for their and the publick good . . because if i had onely sent a written coppy to the quakers , they would have kept it from the knowledge of such , whom they feared might be drawn away from them , & would have rais'd several fals reports , & i could not have had so many of my friends who are quakers , have had the sight thereof , because i could not have gotten so many written coppies , because of the largeness thereof , so that it would have been like the tallent hid in the earth . . because i conceive it may be more profitable by being in many hands then in a few ; although i know i shall thereby incur the revilings of some , and the mocks and scoffs of others , and the sensour and judgeing of many ; all of which i am contented to pass through , so that my poor labour may be profitable to any . and i know some will object , that i spent more time then i needed , in regard i have written not onely against the quakers , but the anabaptists also , who write nothing to me . i answer , that they do so nearly joyn together in some things , as that i could not answer the one without the other ; for the quakers both in their printed books , and in their disputations , doe make the baptism of infants their great objection against our ministers and churches : also the quakers and anabaptists are both of opinion , in denying the lawfulness of singing psalms , and some anabaptists agree with the quakers in hearkning to revelations and impulses of the spirit , and in hearkning to a light within them in things contrary to the light of scripture ; and they agree in opposing our ministers and churches with great eagerness , although in many other things they disagree and oppose , and are contrary to one another : like sampsons foxes , whose heads were all contrary one to the other , but they were tied together by the tails with a fire-brand to set the corn on fire ; even so do those quakers and anabaptists seem contrary one to the other , and oppose each other , and yet they knit and unite together to set the church on fire , by their fierce and fiery opposing our churches and ministers ; witness the severall books written and published by the anabaptists against our ministers and their maintenance ; as john can his book , called the first and second voice from the temple , and several others ; cmpared with jona dell his book , called a voice from the temple , and several others ; by which it appears that they agree in one in opposing our ministers , because they knew if they could destroy the ministery , it were an easie matter to perswade people to any religion , as a man that hath lost his guide in a wilderness may easily lose his way . also , who knoweth not that the anabaptists were the first original from whence the quakers came ? for most of the quakers were first anabaptists , as mr. baxtar hath at large proved ; wherefore considering how these agree in several opinions & practices , i have by the way , as i found occasion , written against their errors , not their persons . also some will object against my writing against the quakers , because they say they are a people that live very strict holy lives . . i answer , that for their strict holy lives , i refer the reader to those ten particulars i have proved against them . . i answer , that the holyness of a christian life , doth not consist in negatives only , but in affirmatives , as well as negatives ; now that they doe live in the neglect and contempt of many christian duties commanded by christ and his apostles is plain , by what i have written . . i answer , that the living a strict moral life only , doth not prove them , nor manifest them nor any other to be christians ; for many heathens have done as much , as histories relate , and many papists have walked with as much strictness in their lives as any quakers ; as luther writeth of himself when he was a monck , and of several others . also the young man in the gospel said , all these commandements i have kept from my youth ; and i believe many of the pharisees were as strict and zealous in their way as they ; and the apostle paul testifieth of himself , while he was a pharisee , that touching the righteousness which is in the law blameless . but all , that his and their righteousness did not make them , nor manifest them to be christians , because they did do those works not from an inward principle of life , but for life , to be justified and saved thereby , as the papists and quakers do . now , what the devil spake in this sense is most true , skin for skin , yea , all that a man hath will he give for his life ; and what would not a man do & suffer for the saving his soul , and gaining heaven ? but all that a man can do and suffer will not make him a christian , nor manifest him to be such , if he beleive not the gospel , nor profess the same ; for if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and shalt believe in thine heart that god hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved , saith the apostle , rom. . , . for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ; and therefore luther saith , that doctrine is heaven , and practice is below here among men , and therefore i am of the opinion or judgement of those that understand christ his words , you shall know them by their faces , to be meant their doctrines , as well as their lives , because generally false prophets , and false teachers are such as walk very strict in their lives ; yea , the devil is more cunning then to send men of profane lives to vent and spread errors , for he knoweth people will not be easily deluded by such ; and therefore , he sendeth such as cover over their errors with the sheeps clothing of a pretended strict holy life , then any others , as the fals teachers did among the galatians , and the ringleaders of all sects and errors ever since have done ; wherefore i return their own argument upon their own heads which they often bring against our ministers , that they are the false prophets , christ spake of . i say , their teachers are the false prophets , because i know them by their fruits , their errors which they hould , and teach , as well as their practise . judas was a true apostle , called by christ , and yet a covetous wretch , and a devil ; but that did not prove him a false apostle , he being called by christ , and teaching the doctrine of christ ; also christ saith , the scribes and pharisees sit in moses seat ; wherefore what they command you that observe and do , for they say and do not ; so that by christs commanding to hear them , it doth appear that the pharisees not walking according to what they taught , was no ground to prove them false teachers , nor to refuse to hear them , they being called to teach , and teaching the truth . it is one of the cunning wiles of satan to perswade people , as the quakers do , not to hear any minister that walketh not perfectly in his life , and that they are no true teachers that have any failings in their lives , though lawfully called , and teach the truth : and one of the other hand , to perswade people that those are the onely true teachers that walk with an outward shew of holynesse , though never called to teach , & teach false erroneous doctrines , contrary to the grounds of religion ; and this the apostle paul proveth , saying , false apostles , deceitful workers , transforming themselves into the apostles of christ ; and no marvel , for satan himself is translated into an angel of light ; wherefore the apostle warneth the galatians , though we , or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you then that which we have preached , let him be accursed ; the false apostles and false teachers pretended to be the only holy men , for they taught , that faith alone was not sufficient to justifie , but that they must joyn their good works ; and that the apostle pauls doctrine , tended to carnal liberty , and taught people to live in sin , as the quakers say of our ministers , and their doctrine . but the apostle charged the galatians and the corinthians , not to hear them for all their pretended holyness , seeming like angels , because they preach another gospel of their own , as the quakers do , for they teach the same doctrines those the false apostles taught , namely , that we are not justified and saved by believing what christ did and suffered for us , but by hearkning to , and obeying not gods commandements , but a light within us ; and some of them do deny christs body to be risen from the grave , and to be in heaven ; and are not these sufficient grounds to write against such people , that hold , teach and maintain such erronious doctrines , i mean not their persons , but their errors ? what esteem soever many have of them for their outward pretended holyness ; i say outward , for did people see their hearts they would see them foul ; the lord said unto the prophet ezekiel , sonne of man , these men have set up their idols in their heart ; he did not say , they did worship idols with their bodies ; and do not the quakers set up idols in their hearts , when they set up their inward works in the room and place of christ ? what do they else when they say and teach , that they are not justified and saved by what christ did , and suffered , but by what they do in obeying a light within them ? and is not this to make an idol of their own works ; which is worse then the papists images made of wood and stone ? and is not their maintaining that they can perfectly keep the law , by living without sin , a making of themselves equal with christ , for it is his prerogative only to have no sin , that satan found no sin in him ? and to say , which of you can accuse me of sin ? and do not they thereby idolize themselves , and will people still be so mad to idolize them , by saying , they have no sin , and that they never sin ? wherefore i hope i have answered that objection . there is one objection more which i have heard against others writing against them , and i must look for the same ; wherefore i shall indevour to answer that , and so conclude . the . objection , that it is lost labor to write against them , because they are a peeople so wedded to their own opinions , and so self-conceited of their own knowledge , that they will not be convinced , let any man say or write what he will against them . answer i confess it was an objection that did stick much with me before i began to write , and did keep me back for some time from writing ; but i did satisfie my self before i began , and shall indevour to satisfie the reader . wherefore i say first , that i have heard and known some that have been convinced and called out from among them , and that by being reasoned with and reading some books written against their errors ; and who knoweth whether god hath not a purpose to call others out from amongst them , and who knows what god may do by small weak means ? and if the lord please to convince one soul , i shall think my labour abundantly satisfied . secondly , i say , that there is some hopes of stablishing some that are wavering , and that i have had experience of in some , that have been ready to close with them , that by reading and conference have been setled again in the truth . thirdly , i say , that supposing neither of these prove , yet i shall not think my labour lost , because in answering them , i have written severall fundamentall truths ; in writing , which i found much benefit to my self , and it may be that some may receive some benefit in reading , which shall be my prayer to god , and then i know my labour is not lost in writing , being written at such leisure times , as i could best spare from other imployments . and i hope , that some may find some spare time which they may spend in reading , as i did in writing ; desiring all that read , may lay aside all prejudicate opinions , and accept of the good will of him , whose desire and prayer is , that the gospel of jesus christ , his ministers and ordinances may be defended and maintained , and all errour , heresie , superstition , and idolatry , suppressed and destroyed . j. g. to john howard one of the quakers , teachers , and all such as plead for , and maintain their erroneous opinions and practices . having received thy paper , which thou didst read , or cause to be read , at your meeting in william bond 's house at cheeswick ; and finding in the same , many false railing accusations against all the ministers of the gospel , calling them parish-hirelings , deceivers , and false prophets , deceivers for money , such as stand up in the strength of the dragon against the lamb , and in the way of balam ; ministers of antichrist , such who keep people in their sin , by teaching that none can be perfect and free from sin so long as they live in this world . and for my self , to whom you direct your black paper , you do write many false slanders and revileings , saying that i came into your meeting in a raging envious manner , uttering forth my malice and poyson against the truth , barking like a dog ; vomiting up my poysonous stuffe , and venomous stuffe , with many other the like . but i may not expect to fare better than my master ? for all that have read your papers , or heard your words , know that you make it your chiefest studies to utter forth railing , cursing , revilings against all persons that are not of your opinions : but for all such as are of your opinions , you call them in your letter , the servants and children of the lord god , the innocent lambs of christ , the holy seed , the called , the chosen of the lord , the witnesses , the saints , the children of the light , the perfect ones ; these are your words , and many more ; and that the truth of this heavy charge against the parish-teachers as you call them , and my self may appear , and the innocencie of your self and others quakers may appear unto all that have the spirit of discerning , i shall by the help and assistance of almighty god vindicate both the ministers , and my self , from your false accusations : and that i may keep some order and method , which you despise , i shall first shew the occasion and manner of my coming into your meeting , and shall appeal to all that heard and saw me whether i writ not the truth : i hearing thee prate into the next house , and into the street , that the grace of god did condemn man , i came into the room , being much troubled at thy many false non-sensical speeches , telling thee that thou didst talk of the gospel and the grace of god , but thou didst not know what the gospel was , nor the grace of god ; where i did prove that men are saved by the grace of god , and that the gospel is glad tidings bringing peace , and that the law was called the ministery of condemnation , and not the gospel , which thou couldst not gain-say ; when and where in a peaceable manner i demanded of thee by what authority thou didst come there to teach ; thou saidst that god did send thee , and that thou wast not sent by men , as the parish priests were : i replied , that all ministers that were lawfully called to preach now , are not only called inwardly by the lord , but by the church ; our office bearers of the church ; which i then proved by plain scriptures , which i 've here writ , the better to help your memory , and the rather because it is one of your objections , that our ministers ( as you call them ) are not lawfully called , as the ministers and elders in the primitive time were : and , that you may the better perswade and delude people that they are no lawfull ministers of christ , but of antichrist , you do write many reasons to prove them ( as you think ) to be the ministers of antichrist ; all which reasons i shall set down in order , and then give you the answer to every perticular . your first ground you alledge is , that they are not called by the holy spirit , and made over-seers by the holy ghost , but by men. your second ground is , because they go to oxford or cambridge , to learn natural arts and languages , hebrew , greek , and latine , logick and phylosophy . your third ground , because they study for what they say , and get their lessons as a scholar . your fourth ground , because they study old authors , the writings of those called the antient fathers , popish writers ( as you call them . ) your fifth ground is , because they take money for preaching by the year , or tithes , or glebelands , or augmentations . your sixth ground is , because they keep people in their sins , teaching none can be perfect nor free from sin so long as they live upon the earth . your seventh ground is , because of those fruits which do spring up among teachers and people , as pride , and many other sins you name . these are all your grounds which i have gathered out of your confused paper , where the same things are often repeated , as your manner is both in writing and speaking ; and now i shall answer your grounds in order , which answer in writing , is the same in fact , which i have formerly spoken to your self and others of your company , at your meetings at vvill. bond 's house , and other places , as many other persons which were then and there present can witnesse ; and i am the rather moved to take this labour of writing , that other sober-minded people may judge , whether those things spoken were poysonous , venomous stuffe , barking like a dog , as you write in your paper , and others of your company have spoken . your first ground is , because the parish hierling-teachers , as you call them , are called and made ministers by men , and not by the spirit and holy ghost . for answer to which , i shall first lay down this proposition , that all ministers , since the apostles days , are not called immediately by an extraordinary call , as the porphets and apostles were , but mediately in an ordinary way of calling . which calling is not the calling of men , but the calling of the holy ghost ; because that calling which the holy ghost hath revealed in the scripture , and that i shall prove by scripture ; for after that he was ascended into heaven , judas being faln from his apostleship , and another to be chosen in his room , the apostles being met together , concluded from what was written in the scripture , that another should take his charge , wherefore they presented two out of the number of those who was conversant among them , from the baptism of john , and they prayed , and gave forth their lots , and the lot fell on matthias , and he was numbred with the eleven apostles . no man pretended that he had the spirit , and therefore that was a sufficient call ; neither did god call any by revelation , or a voyce from heaven , to that place of an apostle in his room . also , after the apostles had gathered churches , they ordained elders by election in every church ; and the apostle paul saith , that he left titus in creet , that he should ordain elders in every city ; and the apostle , writing to timothy , saith , despise not the gift that is in thee , which was given thee by prophecy , with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery or eldership . and paul directed him whom to make bishops or elders . and also the apostle doth not only direct him , but also charge him , among other things , that he should lay hands suddenly on no man. one of your speakers or praters , at one of your meetings at vvilliam bond 's house , hearing some in the street threaten to pull them out of the house , cryed out lay hands suddenly on no man , as if the apostle had meant of striking men suddenly : but the apostle saith that a bishop or elder must be no striker . by which you may see how you are mistaken in the meaning of scripture , who pretend to have the infallible spirit , by which the scripture was written , as i have heard some of your company say . and jona dell , in his book called the voyce from the temple , writeth . but your spirit of error in misapplying scripture is plainly discerned by all that have the spirit of discerning ; and now i pray mind these things , to use your own phrase , and consider of these texts of scripture here written , and let the light of the scripture enlighten your dark minds , to see that those who have an external call , as well as an internal call , are the lawful ministers of the gospel , and such are our ministers . can you believe that god hath appointed order and government in a common-wealth , and in a family , and hath appointed none in his church ? now is it a sufficient warrant , for a man to execute the office of a justice of the peace , a constable , or any other office in the common-wealth , because he hath sufficient gifts and inward qualifications , without an outward call , by those who are in authority , either by commission or otherwise ; and it is lawful for any man to execute the the office of a publick minister , without a lawful call from those who are in publick authority . but i know your opinions are against all order or offices in the church , and so much you write in your paper , making it to be a great fault that our teachers bear rule : now , that i may show you your error , mind these scriptures , that prove ministers , to be officers , and such officers as are to rule in the church . the apostle paul writing to timothy saith , if a man desire the office of a bishop or elder , he desireth a good work ; and shewing how he ought to be qualified , saith , he must be one that ruleth well his own house , else how shall he take care of the church . and the apostle writing to the corinthians saith , that god hath set some in the church , first apostles , secondarily prophets , thirdly teachers , helps to government . also , the apostle writing to the romans , saith , all members have not the same office. wherefore he that is a minister , let him wait on ministering ; or he that teacheth on teaching , he that ruleth with diligence ; also the apostle writing to the hebrews , saith , remember them that have the rule over you , and who are they ? the apostle saith , such who have spoken unto you the word of god ; and in the same chapter , obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls . but though you are like korah and his company , who were many , two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly , famous in the congregation , men of renown ; who gathered themselves together against moses and aaron , and said ( as you quakers do to other ministers and magistrates ) you take too much upon you , seeing all the congregation are holy , and the lord is among them . so you say , have not we the same spirit the apostles had ? are not we all holy ? wherefore do you priests take so much upon you ? but what became of those men ? god caused the earth to open and swallow them up ; and take heed lest god show some special judgement upon you , by delivering you up to blindnesse of mind , and hardnesse of heart . korah and his company , had the same pr●●ences that you have ; but know , it is not the inward gifts and qualifications only , that makes a publick teacher , as i have proved , but the lawful ordaining a man to that office ; and a man that is so called , although he want the power of that which he teacheth , as the sons of ely were lawfull priests , because lawfully called , though , they were wicked men ; and the pharises and scribes , christ saith , sit in moses seat all ; therefore whatsoever they bid you observed , that observe and do , but do not ye after their works , for they say and do not : now , by their sitting in moses seat , was , that it was their office or calling to teach the law , and therefore christ spake both to the multitude and to his disciples to hear them ; and judas was a true apostle , and one that preached as the rest of the apostles , for it is said , he had part in this ministery : but all those who are authorized for that work , ought to be careful that they ordain none but such who are inwardly fitted and called , and to that end the apostle chargeth timothy , that he lay hands suddenly on no man ; but to try and examine both himself and others , of his fitnesse and ability , lest he be partaker of other mens sins consider what i have here written in answer to your first ground . and now i shall answer your second ground , which is , because they go to oxford or cambridge , and learn latine , hebrew or greek . to which i answer , i know many ministers that never went to these places to learn these languages , and yet think they are not the abler ministers , but lesse able ; and yet i doe not deny but they are lawfull ministers , being lawfully called . but i wonder that you make these things to be a ground of their unfitnesse , which is rather a ground of their fitnesse ; for do you not read of the schools of the prophets , and paul doth thank god that he spake with tongues more than they all ; which he would not have done , if it had been a sin so to do ; and paul was brought up at the feet of gamaliel , a learned man in all tongues : and if there had been no scholars that had learned the hebrew and greek tongues , i wonder how we in england should have understood the scriptures , seeing the old testament was written in hebrew , and the other in greek ; and they are not so perfectly translated , but that there is need of the hebrew and greek tongues to explaine some texts of scripture : and for the latine tongue , how many learned godly men have written severall excellent books in the latine tongue usefull in the church , which we had neither known nor understood , if they had not been translated out of the latine tongue into english : and besides , the latine tongue is a help to reading and writing in the english tongue ; and by this we may see what friends quakers are to religion , that would have no helps , either for understanding or reading : but the apostle saith , that a bishop must not be a novice ; and the apostle peter saith that there are some things in paul his epistles hard to be understood , which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction ; and are not you quakers such unlearned unstable persons , who plead against learning ? and that you are unstable , doth appear , because , for the most part , you have been of severall opinions in religion , running from one opinion to another , and now grow obstinate for the most part in your opinions . but i know your objection , that peter and the rest apostles were not brought up at schools , nor had no humane learning : to which i answer , that as they had an extraordinary call , so god did in an extraordinary manner endow them with the gift of tongues , as you may read in the acts of the apostles , where it it said , they were all filled with the holy ghost , and began to speak with other tongues , as the spirit gave them utterance . now when i see or hear you quakers have the gift of tongues , to speak all manner of languages without being taught , in a miraculous extraordinary manner , as the apostles had , then shall i believe you have such an extraordinary call as the apostles had , and till then i shall believe you are a company of deluded , bewitched people . to say no more to this particular , but beware the geese when the fox preacheth , who hath more subtily then learning or solidity . and now i shall answer your third ground against our ministers , [ because they study for what they teach ] to which i answer , that the apostle paul writing to timothy saith , give attendance to reading , to exhortation , to doctrine ; neglect not the gift that is in thee , which was given by prophesie , meditate upon these things , give thy selfe wholly to them , that thy profiting may appear to all . take heed unto thy self , and unto thy doctrine , continue in them ; and is not meditation study ? if you say it is not , then read what the apostle saith in the second epistle to timothy : study to shew thy self approved unto god a workman , that needeth not to be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth . you quakers are wiser than the apostle , you say your teachers need not study , and timothy was , i believe , more able to preach without study , than any of your quakers , who take upon them to teach without study , and therefore i marvel not that your teachers , men and women , speak so much nonsense , and use so many vain repetitions of the same things : but for dividing the word or doctrine , which the apostle exhorteth timothy to use , i never heard among any of the quakers so oft as i heard them speak ; also the apostle exhorteth him that ▪ is a minister to wait on ministering , or he that teacheth on teaching ; the apostle would that they should make it their businesse or whole work , give thy self wholly to them , saith paul to timothy . i know your objection is , that the apostles preached without study , and paul did work , and we quakers have the same spirit that the apostles had . to which i answer , that as the apostles had an extraordinary call , so they were indowed with extraordinary gifts above any man of an ordinary calling ; and although all ministers have the same spirit the apostles had , yet have they not the same measure of the spirit , for as the apostle saith , there are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit , to one is given by the spirit the word of wisdome , to another the word of knowledge , to another the working of miracles , to another prophesie , but all these worketh that one and the self same spirit , dividing to every man severally as he will : now , if you quakers have the same measure of the spirit as the apostles , had , why do you not work miracles as the apostle did ? when i see that , then shall i believe you can preach without study , and t●ll then , i shall believe you prate , and not preach . and now i come to answer your fourth ground , which is , that our ministers study old authors , the writings of the antient fathers , and popish writers : for answer to which , i do marvel how you quakers know those antient fathers to be popish authors , seeing most of their writings are in latine , and you count it a sin for a minister to learn latine ; and surely if you quakers had formerly learned the latine tongue , yet now you dare not read latine books ; wherefore you have no ground to say they are popish authors from your own knowledge , but from hear-say of others , and so you are a false witnesse-bearer : but it is no new thing for you to count all men popish , that are not of your wild opinions ; but if you had not plowed with the papists heifer , you had never known nor learned so many of their errors , as i shall prove hereafter you have : but i do believe it is lawfull for a minister to read popish authors , and to study what they read , else how shall they know what they hold , and how to confute their errors , unlesse they do as you do , take all by hear-say : but the the apostle saith , try all things , and keep that which is good , and the apostle writing to titus , that he should oppose those that say against the truth ; for saith he , there are many disobedient and vain talkers , and deceivers of mindes , chiefely they of circumcision , whose mouths must be stopped , which subvert whole houses , teaching things which they ought not . and that their mouths might be stopped , the apostle alledgeth what one of their own prophets said , the cretians are alwayes lyers , evil beasts , slow bellies ; this witnesse is true , wherefore rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith : now , if the apostle did quote a heathen author to confute error , surely it is no sin for a minister now to quote authors to confute error . also the apostle writing to timothy of false teachers , saith , of this sort are they which creep into houses , and lead captive silly women laden with sins . now , saith the apostle , as jannes and iambres withstood moses so do these also , resist the truth men of corrupt mindes or judgements , and reprobates concerning the faith . now i would know of you where you read in the scripture of jannes and jambres withstanding moses : wherefore it is supposed that paul did read it in some ancient writing ▪ and did alledge it for conviction of those false teachers . but i know you cannot indure antiquity , because you know you have taken up a new religion , which none of the ancient fathers knew ; nay , i believe you cannot produce any modern writer , that ever writ in the maintaining of your new wilde opinions ; and is it to be supposed or imagined that the truth of the gospel hath been hid a thousand six hundred years , and that christ had no church upon earth till you quakers sprung up , which ●●th been but of late years ? if so , then christ ceased to be a head , or else he was a head without a body , which is folly and madnesse for any man to imagine . but i shall shew you hereafter of what antiquity many of your opinions are , and so passe from your fourth ground , and come to your fifth ground , [ that the ministers are no lawful ministers , because they take money for preaching , or tithes , or glebe lands , or augmentations : ] but say the apostles preached freely , to all which i shall give you answer : and first , i shall lay down this for a ground from the apostles words , that god hath ordained , that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel ; and this christ and his apostles taught contrary to you quakers opinions ; for christ when he gave his apostles their charge , to go abroad to preach the gospel , commanded them to take or provide neither silver nor gold in their purses , nor scrip for their journey , nor coats , nor s●aves , for the workman is worthy of his meat ; so that christ did promise to the disciples a sufficient maintenance for meat , drink , and apparel at that time , when there were very few that durst professe the gospel . after christ ascention , when the gospel was more spread abroad , the people sold their land and houses , and brought the money and laid it at the apostles feet : and ananias and sapphira having sold their possession , and kept back part , were strook dead ; and do you think the apostles were not maintained out of that common stock ? after that the apostles had gathered churches , he complained of the church of corinths backwardnesse in allowing him maintenance ; saying , have not we power to eat and to drink , and to lead about a sister , a wife ? who goeth a warfare at his own charge ? who planteth a vineyard , and eateth not of the fruit ? for it is written , thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the oxe that treadeth out the corn : doth god take care for oxen ? or , saith he , is it not for our sakes altogether , that he that ploweth should plow in hope ? if we sow unto you spiritual things , is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things ? do we not know , that they which minister about holy things , live of the things ? even so hath the lord ordained , that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel . and the apostle saith , that he robbed other churches , taking wages to doe the corinthians service : that is , to speak plainly , the apostle did take maintenance from other churches , when he preached to the corinthians ; and so many ministers at this time take maintenance from other churches , because the parish or people unto whom they preach , are not able or not willing to allow them sufficient maintenance , which i know of a truth . also many ministers have the greatest part of their maintenance from a few honest godly persons , when many of far greater abilities , and that of right ought to pay far greater share , pay far lesse ; and many in a parish , to my knowledge , neither give nor pay any thing towards the ministers maintenance , and many but four pence a year for their whole families ; in which sense , many of our ministers may say , they rob other churches , or christians , to do other service ; and yet you quakers cry out , that all our ministers are hirelings , and false prophets , because they ●●ke wages or yearly stipends ; and may you not 〈…〉 say so of the apostle , seeing he saith of himself , that he did take wages ? also the apostle writing to the calatians , saith , let him that is taught in the word , communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things ; but few that are taught do so communicate unto their teacher , as luther complaineth in his sermon upon the same verse in his time , for satan , saith he , can abide nothing lesse then the light of the gospel , therefore he goeth about with all main and might to quench it ; and this he attempteth two manner of waies : first , by lying spirits , such as you are , and then by poverty , and that he endevours by withdrawing the livings of the ministers , that they being oppressed with poverty and necessity , their persons and ministery should be brought into contempt , or forced to forsake the ministery to work for their livings , and so the people being destitute of the ministery of the gospel , should become in time as savage and wilde beasts ; where he complaineth of many magistrates , noblemen and gentlemen , who take away the church goods , whereby the ministers should live , and turn them to other uses . and i could wish that we in england had no cause to take up the like complaint : i hope i have not offended you in quoting what luther writeth , seeing he was one of the greatest enemies the papists ever had , and therefore i hope no popish father : but to proceed , mind what the apostle writeth to timothy ; let the elders that rule well , be counted worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in the word and doctrine . now that the apostle doth mean by one of the honours the honour of maintenance , is plain by the words following , for the scripture saith , thou shalt not muzzle the oxe that treadeth out the corn , and the labourer is worthy of his reward ; and the apostle in the same epistle saith , that a bishop or elder must be given to hospitality . now , if a minister must live upon the charity of others himself , have shall he have wherewith to releive others ? and by given to hospitality , can be no other thing meant . also the apostle saith , if any man provide not for his own family , he hath denied the faith , and is worse then an infidel ; and if all men , then surely ministers ought to provide for their wives and children , unlesse you would have them worse than infidels ; and you say they are infidels because they do provide for their wives and children , for you say they ought to preach for nothing , and most of them have nothing else to maintain themselves , wives and children , but what they have by their ministery , and must not ministers wives be maintained , and children brought up and educated as well as other mens wives and children ? must their wives and children be lest destitute of all means and maintenance , and rely only upon the charity of others ? if they should , i believe you quakers would rather see them starve than relieve them . but you will say , if that ministers must have maintenance yet not by tithes as our ministers are . to which i answer , that none of you quakers have answered those books that have been written to prove the lawfulnesse of ministers maintenance by tithes , nor are able to answer them . but having proved by scripture that ministers ought to have a sufficient maintenance , i marvel why not in that way which god first appointed : are you wiser then he ? there was tithes paid long before any ceremonies were appointed , as you may read gen. . . and god complaineth that the jews robbed him : but ye say , wherein have we robbed thee ? in tithes and offerings ? now i would have you prove where the lord doth forbid paying of tithes in the scripture ? if you say that tithes were to continue but till christ came , i say that is more then you can prove , for christ reproving the pharises , saith , ye pay tithe of mint , and anise , and cummin , and have omitted the weightier matters of the law , judgement , mercy , and faith ; these ought ye to have done , and not to leave the other undone . now , if christ had said , these ye ought to yave done , and to leave the other undone , then i should be of your minde ; but seeing christ saith the contrary , i am bound to believe him before you quakers , or any other whoever he be , and shall not spend any more time about proving tithes of divine right , but shall prove the lawfulnesse and equitablenesse of paying tithes to ministers by humane right , and that i shall do from an author , who hath written an item against sacriledge , whose name is not to his book , but i shall make bold to quote his words , because they are so pertinent to the point in controversie , and being a subject about lawfulnesse of tithes , i believe few quakers have ever read it , but i hope , though you count in a sin to quote antient fathers , yet you will not count it a sin to quote antient statutes . the author aforesaid doth alledge , that ethelwolp son of king egbert , who had brought the saxon heptarchy into a monarchy , had all the lands in england for his demeasne , as is acknowledged by sir edw. cook in his commentaries upon littletons tenures , and conferred the tithes of all his lands and goods by his charter royal upon the church , and adding in the end , that who so should encrease that gift , god would please to prosper and increase his dayes , and if any should presume to diminish the same , that he should be called to an account for it at gods judgement seat : and this he did not only as lord paramount , but as proprietor of the whole land , the lords and great men of that time , having no property or estates of permanency , but as accomptants to the king , whose the whole land was , and yet they also gave their free consents , which the king required , that thereby they might be barred from pleading any tenant-right , as also to oblige them to stand in maintenance of tithes against all pretenders . because the people can have no right or propriety in them , for they never bought or paid for them , neither could they come by inheritance , for that which was not their fathers could not descend to them . now consider whether it be agreeable to piety , prudence , justice and equity , to alienate tithes from the ministery , which have been so freely given by our christian kings , out of zeal to advance gods glory , confirmed by many acts of parliament , of times renewed and reiterated , as by magna charta thirty times confirmed , and many other statutes since . now consider whether the ministery in england hath not as good a propriety in tithes , as noblemen , gentlemen and free-holders have in their lands ; seeing tithes were so freely given , and confirmed by so many acts of parliament , who are the representative of the whole nation , and those parliaments have taken several oaths and protestations to defend and maintain the same ; and is it not a great sin for any man to endevour to bring the guilt of so many oaths and protestations upon the land ? as for augmentations and glebe-land , which you also complain of ; i answer , that , what is freer than gift ? is it a sin for a minister to take that which was and is voluntarily given towards the ministers maintenance ? do not your teachers take what is given them ? have they not maintenance ? can they live without meat , drink , lodging and cloaths , while they wander up and down from place to place ? now , what have our ministers more than maintenance for themselves and families , and those who give the ministers , do it according to the light within them . i shall answer your objections against ministers taking maintenance , which is , that the lord complaineth against such priests and prophets that did teach for money , and look for gain from their quarters , that fed themselves and not the flock . to which i answer , that the lord complaineth against such as only teach for hire and not for conscience , nor love of souls , else why did the lord complain against such as with-held the tithes ; saying , you have robbed me , but ye say wherein have we robbed thee ? in tithes and offerings . also , the lord doth not simply complain against the sheepherds , because they eat the fat , and were cloathed with the wool , but because they did so only , and did not feed the flock , and minde that , he calleth them sheepherds ; and in isaiah where he complaineth by the prophet , against such , the text saith , his watchmen are blinde , they are all ignorant , they are dumb dogs that cannot bark , sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber , they all look to their own way , every one for gain from his quarter : come ye , say they , i will fetch wine , and we will fill our selves with strong drink , and to morrow shall be as this day , and much more abundant . that which the lord reproveth by his prophet , is not because they had maintenance , but because they cared for nothing else , they were ignorant , lasie , blinde , gluttons and drunkards . now , i wonder you are ashamed to compare our ministers to such , sure i am you know none such now that are so lasie that they preach not , nor such as give themselves wholly to gluttony or drunkenness : such there have been , but blessed be the lord they are all , for ought i know , or can hear , cast forth as corrupt and unprofitable members ; and the lord complaining by the prophet zephany , maketh complaint against the princes and judges , as well as the prophets and priests , saying , her princes are roaring lyons , her judges are ravening wolves ; and yet the lord calleth them princes and judges , for the wickednesse of the person doth not disanul his office , being lawfully called thereunto , neither in magistrates nor ministers , untill they be degraded from that office . you farther object in your paper , that the apostles did take only that which was freely given them . i answer , that our ministers do take nothing , but what was and is freely given , either by their ancestors or otherwayes , and who ever payeth the ministers t●thes , payeth nothing of his own , but that which was freely given ; for no man in buying any land , or leasing any land doth buy the tithes , because by law they cannot be sold . you farther object , that the apostles did work with their hands to maintain themselves , because they would not be chargeable to others . i answer , that the apostle paul and barnabas did work , but the rest did not , as appeareth by the apostles words , or i only and barnabas , have not we power to forbear working ; by which the apostle plainly sheweth , that the rest did forbear working , and they had power to forbear working , but that the apostle did , because of the poverty of the church of corinth , and because he would give no offence to any , he became as a jew to the jew , to them that are without law , as without law he became , made all things to all men , that he might by all means save some ; to that end he caused timothy to be circumcised , that he might gain the jews . now why do not you quakers follow the apostle in that , as well as in your teachers working , which i think is very seldome . besides , as i said before , the apostles had extraordinary gifts , as well as an extraordinary call , and were able to preach without study , but the apostle writing to timothy , commandeth him to meditate upon those things , give thy self wholly to them , that thy profiting may appear to all ; and do you quakers think that you are more able to preach without study than timothy was ? and that you can work on your ordinary callings , and preach too , when paul commandeth timothy the contrary . and now i answer your sixth ground , against the lawfulnesse of our ministers , and that is you say , because they teach , that none can be perfectly freed from sin while they live here . for answer to which , i say , that you quakers neither know nor understand what our ministers preach ; wherefore that you may know , and be better instructed , i shall by the assistance of almighty god , shew you what our ministers do preach and hold , concerning this great point in controversie , of being perfectly freed from sin , and that , according to what i do believe concerning the same , according to that measure of light within me , according to the scriptures . and i pray god to open your eyes , that you may be able both to see and believe the same , without which there is no salvation . wherefore know you , that our ministers do both preach and write , that all and every one that doth by a true and lively faith , believe on the lord jesus christ for life and salvation , are perfectly freed from all sin here by justification , and that alone by the blood of christ , and are made perfectly righteous by the righteousnesse of christ imputed , and that all those who are so justified by the blood and righteousnesse of christ , are truly sanctified by the spirit of christ : which sanctification , is , perfecting all our life here , and perfected at the end of our lives , according to that of the apostle : having therefore these promises ( dearly beloved let us clense our selves from all filthinesse of the flesh and spirit , perfecting holinesse in the fear of god ; not perfected , but is alwaies a doing . now that i may prove these two points , and explain them , i shall first shew you by the scriptures , that we are made perfectly free from sin , and made perfectly righteous by the blood and righteousnesse of christ ; for as adam in the estate of innocency was not only without sin , but made in an estate of righteousnesse , being made in the image of god , which as the apostle saith , consisteth in knowledge , and righteousnesse , and holinesse , so all that are saved are by christ the second adam , made perfectly free from all sin by his death , resurrection , and intercession , and made perperfectly righteous by his righteousnesse . wherefore i shall plainly prove both these to be by justification , in and by christ alone , according to that of the apostle ▪ being justified freely by his grace , through the redemption that is in christ ; and , be it known unto you therefore , men and brethren , that through this man is preached unto you the forgivenesse of sins , and by him all that believe are justified from all things , from which ye could not be justified by the law of moses ; but to him that worketh not , but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly , his faith is counted unto him for righteousnesse . even as david also describeth the blessednesse of the man , unto whom god imputeth righteousnesse without works ; saying , blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven , and whose sins are covered ; blessed is the man to whom the lord will not impute sin . all things are of god who hath reconciled us to himselfe by jesus christ , and hath given to us the ministery of reconciliation . to wit , that god was in christ , reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them , for he hath made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousnesse of god in him , and by one offering he hath made perfect , or hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified . you see the apostle doth make our perfection to be by that , which christ alone hath suffered and done for us , and not by what we work or do : but i know this is a strange new doctrine unto you , and hard for you to believe , because you dote so much upon a light within you , and righteousnesse within you ; wherefore i shall endevour to make this doctrine appear plain unto you , if you will not shut your eyes against the light , or that the god of this world hath not blinded your mindes , lest the light of the glorious gospel of christ should shine unto you . werefore minde what i shall write from the scriptures . first , i shall shew how this perfection by christ was typed out in the time of the law , as in the scape-goat the lord commanded ; saying , aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat , and confesse over him all the iniquities of the children of israel , and all their transgressions in all their sins , putting them upon the head of the goat , and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wildernesse . and the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities , into a land not inhabited , and he shall let go the goat in the wildernesse . now minde how this type was to set forth christs taking away all our sins that believe on him , as may appear by the prophets prophecying of the same , as the evangelical prophet esay ; surely he hath born our griefs , and carried our sorrowes , yet we did esteem him stricken , smitten of god and afflicted . but he was wounded for our iniquities , the chastisements of our peace was upon him , and with his stripes we are healed . all we like sheep have gone astray , we have turned every one to his own way . [ minde ] and the lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all . also the prophet daniel plainly shewed this , seventy weeks are determined upon thy people , and upon thy holy city , to finish the transgression , and to make an end of sins , and to make reconciliation for iniquity , and to bring in everlasting righteousness . and after threescore and two weeks shall messias be cut off , but not for himself . minde who it is that maketh an end of sin , and bringeth everlasting righteousnesse , namely christ the messias ; this the prophet zachariah prophecyeth of , saying , i will bring forth my servant the branch , for hehold the stone that i have laid before joshuah , upon one stone shall be seven eyes . behold i will engrave the graving thereof , saith the lord of hosts , and i will remove the iniquity of the land in one day : what day ? surely that day when christ suffered , when he said , it is finished , according to that of the apostle to the colossians . and you being dead in your sins , hath he quickned together with him , having forgiven you all trespasses : blotting out the hand writing of ordinances that were against us , which was contrary to us , and took it out of the way , nailing it to his crosse . and the apostle saith to the colossians , though you were sometime alienated , and enemies in your mindes by wicked workes , yet now hath he reconciled . in the body of his flesh through death , to present you holy and unblameable , and unreproveable in his sight , whom we preach , that we may present every man perfect in christ jesus , not in your selves , or by any thing you work , suffer , or do , but by what christ suffered and did in the body of his flesh , even by that one offering , saith the author to the hebrews , hath he perfected for ever : hereunto agreeth that of the apostle to the ephesians , that christ loved the church , and gave himself for it , that he might sanctifie and clense it with the washing of water by the word , tha●●e might present it to himself , a glorious church not having spot or wrinkle , or any such thing . by these scriptures i hope you may see how our perfection is in and by christ : by what he did our sins are perfectly abolished , not out of us , as the papists and you quakers hold , but fully satisfied for by christ , god having received an attonement for them by christ . this also was typed by the brazen serpent , that moses by the lords appointment caused to be put upon a pole , and any man that was bitten with a serpent , when he beheld , or looked upon the serpent was healed ; and this was prophecyed by the prophet malachi , saying , the son of righteousnesse shall arise with healing in his wings : alluding to the wings of the cherubims , that covered the mercy-seat upon the ark , which ark was also a lively type of christ : this the lord also promised by his prophet i saiah , saying , i have seen his waies , and i will heal him , i create the fruit of the lips , peace , peace , to him that is far off , and to him that is near , saith the lord , and i will heal him . this the lord also promised by the prophet jermiah , in those dayes , and at that time , saith the lord , the iniquity of israel shall be sought for , and there shall be none , ad the sins of judah , and they shall not be found , for i will pardon them . this also is set forth by several other metaphorical prophesies and promises , as that the lord will not remember their sins , that he will cast them into the depth of the sea , to cast them behinde his back , to wipe it away like a cloud ; and this john baptist pointed at christ , saying , behold the lamb of god that taketh away the sin of the world . and as moses lifted up the serpent in the wildernesse , even so must the son of man be lifted up , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have eternall life , for god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in him , should not perish but have eternall life , by whom we have redemption through his blood , even the forgivenesse of sins . and the blood of jesus christ cleanseth us from all sin . this is the perfection from sin by justification which our ministers teach , and not a perfection inherent in us , as your quakers , papists , catharists , and familists teach ; and as they teach a perfection from sin by christ alone , so do they teach , and so do i believe , that christ hath wrought perfect righteousnesse for all the elect , according to the scriptures . for it is not sufficient to bring us to heaven to be freed from sin , for a horse hath no sin , but there must be perfect righteousnesse , without which no man can enter into heaven ; for , as i said before , adam was not only made without sin , but was made righteous , and we must be restored to an estate of righteousnesse , by christ the second adam ; and this was typed by the two tables being put into the ark , and there to be kept , to shew that christ the true ark kept and fulfilled the law ; and this the prophet david prophesieth of christ ; then said i , lo i come , in the volume of the book , it is written of me , i delight to do thy will o god , yea thy law is within my heart . i have preached righteousnesse in the great congregation . i have not hid thy righteousnesse within my heart : this also is plainly set forth , in the prophesie of zachariah ; saying , take away the filthy garments from him ; and unto him he said , behold , i have caused thine iniquity to passe from thee , and i will cloath thee with change of rayment ; for behold , i will bring forth my servant the branch . [ minde ] that his iniquity was not only to passe , but be cloathed with change of rayment , which is the righteousnesse of christ called the branch ; and surely shall one say , in the lord have i rigteousnesse , in the lord shall all the seed of israel be justified . this is that the church rejoyceth in , saying , i will greatly rejoyce in the lord , my soul shall be joyfull in my god , for he hath cloathed me with the garments of salvation , he hath covered me with the robe of righteousnesse and as this righteousnesse was typified , prophesied of , and promised in the old testament , so did christ accomplish the same ; for saith christ , it becometh us to fulfill all righteousnesse , wherefore the apostle paul saith , but of him are ye in christ jesus ( not in your selves ) who of god is made unto us wisdome , and righteousnesse , and sanctification , and redemption : he is made wisdome for our folly , he is made righteousnesse for our unrighteousnesse , and sanctification for the corruption of our conception , birth and conversation , and redemption for our bondage ; the same apostle also to the romans saith , but now the righteousnesse of god without the law is manifested , being witnessed by the law and the prophets , even the righteousnesse of god which is by faith of jesus christ , unto all , and upon all them that believe , for all have sinned , and come short of the glory of god , being justified freely by his grace , through the redemption that is in jesus christ . the apostle calleth it the righteousnesse of god , because wrought by him , that is god , to shew the worth , virtue and excellency of the same ; also the apostle saith , for if by one mans offence , death reigned by one , much more they which receive abundance of grace , and of the gift of righteousnesse , shall reign in life by one jesus christ ; therefore as by one mans disobedience , many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one , shall many be made righteous . [ minde ] the apostle saith , as , and so that is , as by adams sin , or disobedience , we were made sinners , so by christs obedience we are made rigteous ; this is the wedding garment , without which we have no acceptance , but are abominable and filthy in gods sight ; as christ saith to the church of laodicea , thou saist i am rich , and increased with goods , and have need of nothing , and do not you quakers say the same in effect ? for they thought they were rich by doing good works , and had need of nothing ; do not you quakers say you are so perfect by what you do and suffer , that you have no need of any teaching or exhortation , reproof or admonition ? but what said christ to them , and take it home to your selves , and knowest not that thou art poor , and wretched , and miserable , & blinde , & naked ; because they were destitute of the true wisdome & righteousness of christ , & hasted to a wisdome & righteousness in themselves : but christ saith , i councel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire , that thou maist be rich , white raiment that thou maist be cloathed , and that the shame of thy nakednesse do not appear ; which is the merits and obedience of christ , to put him on , as the apostle saith ; this is that righteousnesse that christ said , except your righteousnesse shall exceed the rigteousnesse of the scribes and pharisees , ye shall in no case enter into the kingdome of heaven . the pharisees thought themselves the only righteous people in the world , as you do ; for said the pharisee , i thank god i am not as other men , nor as this poor publican , for i do many good works ; like those hypocrites spoken of by the prophet esay , stand farther off , for i am holier than thee . but they were ignorant of the righteousnesse of christ , as the jewes were , who went about to establish a righteousnesse of their own works ; for saith the apostle , they being ignorant of gods righteousnesse , and going about to establish their own righteousnesse , have not submitted themselves unto the righteousnesse of god. again , what shall we say then ? that the gentiles which followed not after righteousnesse have attained to righteousnesse , even the righteousnesse which is of faith . but israel which followed after the law of rigteousnesse , hath not attained to the law of righteousness . wherefore ? because they sought it not by faith ; and this the apostle knew by himself , as may appear by his own words , touching the righteousnesse of the law blamelesse : but he was an enemy to this righteousnesse of christ , because he was ignorant of the same ; and are not you quakers ignorant of this rigteousnesse , faith ? for some of your speakers have said to me , when i have spoken the same things among you , that here , with hold thy peace and speak no more , thy dirty puddle , thy stinking stuff ; and some of you in your printed pamphlets have written against this doctrine of justification by faith . but may i not justly return the same unto you ? [ hold your peace , and speak no more , nor write no more your dirty dungy righteousnesse . ] for if the apostle paul counted all his righteousnesse to be but dung , in comparison of the righteousnesse which is of god by faith , well may i count and call yours so , for while you pretend to be the only friends of christ , you are his greatest enemies ; i , traitors to christ and his gospel , traitors to his church and children , and traitors to your bodies and soules ; seeming great friends to all these , but betraying every one of these with a judas his kisse ; because you are enemies to this perfect righteousnesse of christ by faith , by which alone we are justified and saved . but you maintain a perfection within you by the spirit , saying , that you are freed from all corruption of sin . wherefore having at large proved , that all believers are perfect by justification , i shall now prove , that all those who are perfectly justified , are not perfectly freed from all sin and corruption in themselves , and then i shall answer your objections against both . and to make this appear to be true , according to the scriptures , i shall first lay down this proposition . that all believers are justified by the blood and righteousnesse of christ , are sanctified by the spirit of christ , which spirit of christ doth remain and abide in them , together with the body of sin , which i shall plainly prove ; to that end , know , that this body of sin is sometimes in scripture called flesh , sometimes concupisence . now you do deny that there is both flesh and spirit in one person , which is the thing that i undertake to prove by the scripture . wherefore minde what christ saith to his disciples , the spirit is willing , but the flesh is weak . the apostle paul saith , it is no more i that do it , but sin that dwelleth in me ; and after that , when i would do good , evill is present with me ; and yet in the next verse , i delight in the law of god , after the inward man : but saith he , i see another law in my members , warring against the law of my minde . now , dare you say the apostle had not the spirit of christ at that time ? seeing he saith , he delighted in the law of god , which none can do that have not the spirit of god. besides , consider what a grosse error and absurdity will follow by denying the same , which is this , that if paul had not the spirit at that time , then was not the spirit the author of that scripture contrary to that of the apostle peter , holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost . besides , if paul had not the spirit at that time , then he had lost it , unlesse you say he had not the spirit while after he had written the seventh chapter to the romans . also the apostle paul complaineth in his epistle to the corinthians , saying , that a thorn in the flesh , the messenger of sathan to buffer me , which is taken to be some corruption . also , the apostle writing to the galathians , saith , for the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh , and these are contrary the one to the other . so that ye cannot do the things that ye would , according to what he said of himself before . also the apostle peter that pillar of the church , which the papists your fathers do so much boast of , that he could not erre , as you quakers say of your selves : to passe by his sin in denying christ before christ suffered , you may read in the epistle to the galathians , that the apostle paul withstood the apostle peter to the face , because he was to be blamed . why ? for what ? the apostle saith , that before the jews he dissembled , fearing them of the circumcision , and that barnabas was also carried away with their dissimulation ; but saith the apostle , when i saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel . now , this sin of theirs was not a sin of ignorance but of knowledge , dissembled ; and now i am writing of barrabas , i call to minde that great strife that was between paul and him , that although they were put apart together , for the ministery of the gentiles , & had travelled through many regions , and preached unto them the gospel , that then they should so fall out one with the other , that they should par● asunder ; there must needs be a fault either in paul or barnabas , and surely they both had the spirit of christ at the same time , and were justified and sanctified . also this passion of theirs bringeth to minde what the apostle james writeth , concerning the prophet elias , that he was a man subject to like passions as we are , & that you may read of him in the book of kings . now , if elias that was taken up into heaven , was a mah subject to passion , and paul , and barnabas ; dare you quakers say , you are more holier then they ? i , the apostle saith , that in many things we offend all ; and was not the apostle a true teacher because he taught such doctrine ? as you say our ministers are not . also the apostle john saith , if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us . [ minde ] the apostle doth not say , if you , but we , putting himself within the nnmber . also he saith , if we say that we have not sinned , we make him a lyar , and his word is not in us . i marvel not that you quakers do so often give men the lye , seeing you give god the lye , for so saith the apostle that knew better than you ; for you know not your own hearts , if you did , you durst not so speak : you never yet knew the spiritual meaning of the law , that the least evil thought or motion to sin , though not acted , is a breach of the pure law of god , if you did , then would you say and pray as the prophet david did ; who can understand his errors ? cleanse thou me from secret faults , or sins . if the prophet david , who was a man after gods own heart , and a pen-man of holy scripture , confessed that who can ? which interrogation is a negation , none can understand or know all the secret sins of his life , & prayed to god to pardon them . do you quakers know more ? and are you more holy than he ? i know you are so in your own opinions ; but i shall have occasion hereafter to discover the falsenesse of your opinion in that particular . now , to make this appear more plain , consider that there is no need of christ his mediatorship , propitiation , or intercession ; for if the church and people of god do not sin , why then doth the apostle john say , and if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father jesus christ the righteous ; and he is the propitiation for our sins . [ minde ] the apostle saith , we have an advocate , and he is the propitiation for our sins , the apostle includeth himself within the number . also the apostle paul saith to the romans , who shall lay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? why ? [ minde ] the apostle doth not say for they have no sin : but it is god that justifieth , who is he that condemneth ? it is christ that died , yea rather that is risen again , who is even at the right hand of god , who also maketh intercession for us ; he includeth himself . also the apostle to the hebrews , wherefore he is able also to save to the uttermost , them that come unto god by him , seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them . now consider , that this intercession of christ is necessary for the saints , in regard of their best works . for the prophet esay saith in the name of the whole church : but we are all as an unclean thing , and all our [ minde ] rigteousnesses are as filthy rags . also the apostle paul saith of himself , yea doubtlesse , and i count all things but losse , for the excellency of the knowledge of christ jesus my lord , for whom i have suffered the losse all things , and do count them but dung , that that i may win christ . now the apostle counted his righteousnesse , which is of the law , to be such , that he might be found in christ , not having his own righteousnesse , but that which is through the faith of christ . this intercession of christ for the saints , for to take away the pollution of their best actions , was typified by the high-priest . aaron was to have a plate of pure gold , and engraven upon it , holinesse to the lord. and it shall be upon aarons fore-head , that aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things , that the children of israel may be accepted before the lord. a mans best works , as they come from man , are unclean , because there is corruption in the best men , for all men are conceived and born in sin , as david confesseth of himself ; behold , i was shaped in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . now this original corruption is in the best man , what ever you say or think to the contrary . now as water that is pure and clean in the fountain , if it run or come through a corrupt pipe or channel , it will be foul and unclean ; even so the spirit of god in man , being the fountain from whence all good cometh , is pure and clean , but passing through mans corrupt nature becometh defiled . and therefore you may read , that the angel stood at the altar , having a golden censer , and there was given unto him much incense , that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar , which was before the throne ; and the smoak of the incense which came with the prayers of the saints , ascended up before god out of the angels hand . now , that altar was christ , and that incense was nothing else but christs merits and mediation , by which alone the prayers of all saints are perfumed , and so become acceptable with god , or before him ; for we do not conceive that christ now in heaven maketh any vocal prayers to to god the father for us , but that he doth continually present the virtue of his death and sufferings before his father , whereby not only our persons are accepted , but our services also . now whoever doth deny this intercession , or mediation of christ , doth in effect deny christ , because they deny the end of christ his coming ; and all such the apostle john saith , that whoever denyeth , that jesus is the christ , is antichrist ; and many deceivers are entred into the world , which confesse not that jesus christ is come in the flesh ; this is a deceiver and an antichrist . now all those that do deny the end of christs coming in the flesh , do deny his coming in the flesh ; and all those that deny perfect justification from all sin , in and by christs death , resurrection and intercession alone , do deny the end of christs coming ; and that you quakers do , for you say you are made perfect , not by what christ did and suffered , but by what the spirit worketh in you . i , some of you have affirmed , that christ never rise from the grave , and that his body is rotted in the grave , and some of you have made a mock of this doctrine of justification , by the imputation and intercession of christ , and some have written against it in theis pamphlets . now i pray you that revile against all others that are not of your minde , calling them antichrist , and the brood of antichrist : now see whether you are not the antichrists your selves , and the deceivers spoken of by the apostle . we know from whence you learned this doctrine better than your selves , and that is from your fathers the papists , as i said before , for all you cry out against them , and all others that are not of your minde to be popish : and as this doctrine of the papists and yours , doth make christ and his mediatorship void and uselesse , so it doth make faith to be uselesse ; for if a man be justified and saved , not by what christ hath done and suffered for us , but being free from sin inherently in us , by following and obeying the light within us , then we need not believe our perfection , because we see and feel it in our selves . now the apostle defining faith what it is , saith , that faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen ; and the just shall live by faith ; and we walk by faith and not by sight , even as abraham the father of the faithfull , is said by the apostle to believe against hope , and believed in hope , and being not weak in faith , he considered not his own body n●w dead , neither yet the deadnesse of ●arahs wombe , though he did see and feel nothing in his body nor sarahs , whereby to believe that he should have a son , yet he staggered not at the promise of god through unbelief , but was strong in faith , giving glory to god : and being fully perswaded , that what he had promised he was able also to perform : and therefore it was imputed to him for righteousnesse . now it was not written for his sake alone , that it was imputed to him , but for us also to whom it shall be imputed ; if we believe on him that raised up jesus our lord from the dead , who was delivered for our offences , and was raised for our justification . now the apostle doth argue , that as abraham believed the promise , contrary to what he saw or felt in himself , so also should we . and as this doctrine doth make faith void and uselesse , so doth it also make repentance uselesse ; for if a christian can live without sin , then he need not repent for sin now the doctrine of repentance is of use in the church , as we may see by what the apostle writeth , saying , godly sorrow causeth repentance , never to be repented of ; also christ saith to the church of ephesus , i know thy works , and thy labour , and thy patience , and how thou canst not bear them which are evil , and thou hast tryed them which say they are apostles and are not , and hast born , and hast patience , and for my name sake hast laboured , and hast not fainted : such a commendation as never any quaker deserved , and yet christ said , neverthelesse i have somewhat against thee , remember therefore from whence thou art fallen , and repent , and do the first works . now these were the first churches , and lived in the purest times , and yet had need of repentance , and dare you quakers say , you are more perfect than they ? i know you are so in your own eyes : but christ knoweth you are solely pride and ●ypocrisie ; and how you hold and maintain the popish doctrine , that a man is not justified and saved by faith , in believing only what christ hath done and suffered for us , and for our salvation , but those workes of the spirit in us , in being obedient unto the light within us . now , that you may see and know , that this is an old popish doctrine , i shall shall shew you what luther writeth concerning the papists judgement in this particular , who knew better than you do , because he was trained up many years in the same religion , having been one of their monks . i shall write his very words in his exposition of the epistle to the galathians , upon chap. . ver . . know that a man is not justified by the works of the law , but by the faith of jesus christ . we have alwaies , saith he , recourse to this article , that our sins are covered , and that god will not lay them to our charge : not that sin is not in us [ minde ] as the papists have taught ; saying , that we must be alwaies working well , untill we feel that there is no sin remaining in us . yea , sin is indeed alwaies in us , and the godly do feel it , but it is covered , and it is not imputed unto us of god for christs sake . also on the chap. . ver . . who loved me , and gave himselfe for ▪ me ; the papist , saith he , use this verse , god will no more require of man , than of himself performe he can . moreover they say , that nature is corrupt , but the qualities of nature notwithstanding are sound and uncorrupt , upon which ground they reason , that mans will and understanding are sound and uncorrupt , are pure and perfect in him ; and therefore do infer , that a man is able of himself to fulfill the law , and to love god with all his heart , and so consequently to be justified thereby . it is well known by all that have read the jesuites writings , or have had any conference with the papists , armenians , pelagians and familists , that they all hold , plead and maintain , that there is a light in every mans conscience , which if he improve and husband well , they may attain salvation ; by which you may see , how much you are deluded and deceived , that think your selves run so far from the papists , when you are run to their chief principles of religion . i do not much wonder at your change , seeing you are fallen from this article of justification by faith alone , for as luther well observeth and foretold ; wherefore , saith he , i say as i have oftentimes said , that there is no remedy against sects and errors , or power to resist them , but this only article of christian righteousnesse : if we lose this article , it is impossible for us to withstand any errors or sects , as we may see at this day in the fantasticall spirits , the anabaptists and such like , who being fallen away from this article of justification , will never cease to fall , erre , and seduce others , untill they come to the fulnesse of all iniquity . [ minde ] there is no doubt but they will raise up innumerable sects , and shall devise new works , but what are all these things , though they have never so goodly a shew of holinesse , if we compare them to the death and blood of the son of god , who gave himself for me ? and is it any strange thing to see a man go astray , when he hath lost his right way ? now , christ is the way and the only way , all other wayes are by-paths of a mans own invention ; he is the rock of ages , the chief corner-stone , and who ever stumbleth on him , he must be dashed in pieces ; and though a man do erre in many things , as we all do , yet if he hold fast the foundation , he shall be safe , and this doctrine of christian righteousnesse , or the righteousnesse of christ alone , apprehended by faith , is this sure foundation ; and if we miscarry in that , we perish eternally ; but holding that fast , we shall be safe to all eternity . and now i shall endevour to answer you and the papists objections , concerning this doctrine preached and maintained by our ministers , that a christian is made perfect by what christ alone did and suffered , and not by any thing done in us or by us . now you quakers and the papists do object against this doctrine , that it is a doctrine that giveth people liberty to sin , and to neglect good works ; for say you , if we lay all our sins upon christ , then we make him a pack-horse for to bear our sins , and it matters not how we live in sin , christ having satisfied for them . for answer to this , i say , that this doctrine is a doctrine of christian liberty , and not a doctrine of carnal liberty ; but such who have carnal hearts , and never felt the life and power of faith , have abused this doctrine of christian righteousnesse to carnal liberty , and will abuse the same , for the best things are most subject to abuse ; but the abuse of any thing doth not take away the lawful use of it . in the apostle paul's dayes there were such , for the apostle having preached the doctrine of free grace , that where sin abounded , grace did much more abound , what then shall we say ? shall we continue in sin , that grace may abound ? god forbid . offences will come ( saith christ ) but woe be unto those by whom they are given . some followed christ for by-ends , and there were many in the church of corinth , and galatia , and philippa that walked disorderly , but yet the apostle preached and writ this doctrine of free justification . we know in civil things how apt men are to abuse them , as wine and strong beer to drunkennesse , good meat to gluttony ▪ shall we say therefore they are not good nor lawfull to be used ? and we know a sick stomach cannot well digest the best meat , and shall we therefore say the meat is not good ? do you not know that christ saith , that many are called , but few chosen ? many called to the external profession of the gospel , but few that live answerable thereunto . but the gospel is still the same , and to be preached , as the apostle saith , i am called to preach the gospel , and wo is me if i preach not the gospel ; and the chief cause why so many walk disorderly is , because people do not believe this doctrine of free grace ; for the grace of god which hath appeared and bringeth salvation , teacheth us , that denying ungodlinesse and wordly lusts , we should live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world . the apprehending of the love of god in christ , is that which draweth the heart to love god , and love our brethren , as it is said of mary magdelen , her sins which are many are forgiven , for she loved much . her loving much was not the cause of her sins being forgiven , but her sins being forgiven was the cause of her loving much , as appears by christs own words , but to whom little is forgiven , the same loveth little . as for the other objection , that this doctrine of being justified by the righteousnesse of christ alone , is a means to make men neglect good works . i answer , that no man can do one good work , before he be justified by faith in christ ; for , the person must be accepted , before the work can be accepted ; by faith abel offered unto god a more excellent sacrifice than cain ; but without faith it is impossible to please him : the lord had respect first to abel , then to his offering ; for as christ saith , either make the tree good , and his fruit good , or else make the tree corrupt , and his fruit corrupt now we are made good trees only by b●●ng ingraffed into christ by faith , and all the works that men do before faith , though never so good for the matter , and morally good in themselves , yet are they but beautifull abominations in gods sight , the person being not justified ; the works that a man doth , though good in themselves , do not make any man good , no more than the good fruit on a tree maketh the tree good ; but because the tree is good , therefore the fruit is good . but you quakers and papists say , then it matters not whether a man do any good works , seeing they make him not good : by which you manifest your grosse ignorance of the truth , for the scripture doth teach , that good works do declare and manifest the truth of our faith , that it is not a dead , but a living faith : as the fruit which the tree beareth , doth shew and manifest what the tree is ; if the fruit be good , then is the tree good , if the tree bring forth no fruit , then it is a barren tree , or a dead tree ; and that is the apostles meaning when he saith , that faith without works justifieth not . the apostle treateth of manifesting and declaring the truth of our faith , that it is a living faith , and not a dead faith , or rather a bare profession of faith ; for saith the apostle , what doth it profit , though a man say he hath faith , and have not works , shew me thy faith without thy works , and i will shew thee my faith by my works ; according to christs own words , let your light so shine before men , that they may see you good works , and glorifie your father which is in heaven . also the apostle paul writing to titus , i will that thou affirm constantly , that they which have believed in god , might be carefull to maintain good works , these things are good and profitable unto men ; as the prophet david saith , my goodnesse extendeth not to thee , but to the saints that are in the earth . so that there is a necessity of good works , though not for our justification , namely , gods glory , it being the end of our creation and redemption , and the good and benefit of others , for we were not made for our selves , but for the good and benefit one of another . also good works , the fruits of faith , i conceive are necessary , and profitable for those that do them in faith , to evidence aud manifest the truth of their faith unto themselves , though doctor crips and several others were of a contrary opinion ; for although it be true which christ saith , by this shall all men know , that ye are my disciples , if ye have love one to another ; yet it is also true which the apostle john saith , we know that we are translated from death to life , because we love the brethren ; he that loveth not his brother abideth in death : also , in that prayer which christ taught his disciples , forgive us our debts , as we also forgive our debtors . now , when god hath given us a heart to forgive the wrongs and injuries of men against us , it is a good sign of gods forgiving of us , and this the disciples of christ doth evidence , when christ said unto them , if thy brother trespasse against thee seven times a day , and seven times a day return , saying , i repent , thou shalt forgive him ; and the apostles said unto the lord , increase our faith. the apostles apprehended , that they had need to have their faith increased , to believe the forgivenesse of their sins , that so they might forgive their brother so many trespasses against them ; for if a man have no apprehension of gods mercy in forgiving his sins , he can have no true seeling bowels of mercy to forgive others . but having by faith apprehended the free love and favour of god in christ , in forgiving our sins , our hearts are so warmed and inflamed in the same , that we cannot but forgive others : for as the apostle saith , the love of christ constraineth us , and ye your selves are taught of god to love one another . now i hope by this you will be convinced , that this doctrine of being justified and saved , only by the righteousnesse of christ is no doctrine of carnal liberty to sin , and to live idly , without doing good works ; but contrary , that it is the only ground and foundation of all good works . but because i have often heard some of your teachers say , that a man is saved by the hearkning to the light within him , and obeying the same , which is a doctrine i have heard taught in the open street , in branford market , by benjamin wallis , one of the quakers teachers . wherefore i shall endevour to cleer that to your understandings , if you will not shut the eyes of your understanding against the truth . now , that there is a light in every man , which is a false light , by nature teaching him , that by doing and obeying the law of god he shall be saved ; i deny not , but that this light is christ , that i deny : but say it is the light that is naturally in every man , since the fall of adam . for as adam did lose the estate of innocency , by disobeying gods commandement , in eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evill ; so did he naturally think , that by obeying or doing , he should recover himself again , and therefore the lord placed at the east end of the garden of eden , cherubims and a flaming sword , which turned every way , to keep the way of the tree of life ; knowing that adam naturally did think to recover his estate , by eat●ng of the tree of life , as he lost it by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , and this is natural to all the sons and daughters of adam , to believe that they shall come to an estate of blessednesse and happinesse by what they do ; and therefore the lord , when he gave the law of the ten commandements , gave it with thunder and lightning , and fire , so that the children of israel were afraid , and desired moses that he should go neer and here all that the lord our god shall say , and speak thou unto us all that the lord our god shall speak unto thee , and we will hear it , and do it ; and the lord said , i heard the voice of the words of this people , they have well spoken all that they have said . now moses was to stand between god and the people , in which moses was a type of christ ; the lord your god shall raise up a prophet among your selves like unto me , him you shall hear , which was christ , for god never gave the law to that end , that men should be justified and saved by it , but that it might be the ministery of condemnation to drive them unto christ , for the law is a school-master to drive us to christ , and so long as we live to shew us ous sins , and be a rule of obedience unto us ; and yet the veil of moses law is still upon the hearts of the jews , and many of the gentiles unto this day ; for as the apostle saith , the jews which followed after the law of righteousnesse , have not attained to the law of righteousnesse . wherefore ? because they sought it not by faith , but as it were by the works of the law ; and thus you may see the natural light in many others , did lead them and teach them this way of doing or working for life and salvation . the young man in the gospel , that came unto christ said , good master , what good thing shall i do that i may inherit eternal life ? christ answereth him according to his question , and saith , if thou wilt enter into life , keep the commandements ; and asking which commandement , said , all this have i kept from my youth up , what lack i yet ? and then christ sets him such a task , that he knew he would not do ; if thou wilt be perfect , go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor , and he went away sorrowfull . now the end of christs words , was to convince him of the impossibility of attaining eternal life by doing . also the jews that came unto christ at capernaum said , [ minde ] what shall we do that we might work the works of god and christ ? answered them plainly . this is the work of god , that ye believe on him whom he hath sent . also those that were convinced at peters sermon , said unto peter ●nd the rest of the apostles ; men and brethren what shall we do ? that false light within them taught them nothing but to do : but the apostle peter answereth them , repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus christ , for the remission of sins , for the promise is unto you and to you children . also the keeper of the prison came to paul and silas , and brought them out and said , sirs , what must i do to be saved ? and they answered and said , believe on the lord jesus christ , and thou shalt be saved . the light in him could not direct him what to do , without the apostles teaching , who taught them to do nothing , but to believe on the lord jesus christ ; but if the apostles had been quakers , they would have said to him , hearken to the light within thee , and obey the same , and thou shalt be saved ; but the apostles knew no such doctrine . the false apostles taught such doctrine , for after the apostle paul had planted the church of galatia , by the preaching of the gospel there , presently after came false teachers , who bewitched the galatians with this doctrine , that the works of the law , are to be joyned with christs righteousnesse , for our justification and salvation . the apostle saith , i marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called yon into the grace of christ , unto another gospel which is not another , but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the gospel of christ . [ minde ] the apostle doth not marvel that they were so soon removed from him that called them , to hearken to the light within them , and obey that , but that called you into the grace or favour of christ , and tells them , that those which taught them to joyn faith and works together , in the point of justification , were not preachers of the gospel , but perverters of the gospel ; for saith he , we through the spirit wait for the hope of the righteousnesse by faith. [ minde ] the apostle doth not say , we wait for the revelation of a light within , nor a shaking quaking fit by the spirit , that is from the spirit of the devil , and not from the spirit of christ . and as these galatians had a natural inclination after the doctrine of justification , and were soon drawn away by that , and the false teachers ; so is there the same in all men naturally , because man naturally would fain sacrifice to his own net , he would have something in himself , he cannot indure to be robbed , and spoiled of all his good works ; he would fain have some glory to himself , like the pharisee , who thanked god he was not as other men , but did many good works ; and like those proud hypocritical jews , who said , stand farther off , i am holier then thou : but now this doctrine of free justification , in and by the righteousnesse of christ alone without works , taketh away all glory from a man , robbeth him of all , and giveth all glory to god in christ alone . now take this for a sure rule for tryal of doctrine , that doctrine which giveth most glory to god , and taketh away all glory from man , that is the true doctrine : but this doctrine , of being perfectly justified in , and by the righteousnesse of christ alone , doth give most glory to god , and take glory from man , therefore the true doctrine of christ . having answered your objections against this doctrine of being justified in and by the righteousnesse of christ alone ; i shall answer your grounds , upon which you build your perfection in your selves , by the hearkning to the light within you , and obeying the same . christ saith , be ye perfect as your father which is in heaven is perfect : to which i answer , that a christian is said to be perfect by sanctification , in regard of the parts of sanctification , because every part is sanctified ; as a man childe is said to be a perfect man so soon as it is born , in regard it hath all the parts of a man , but those parts are not grown to perfection ; so a christian is perfect , in regard of all parts of perfection , but not in regard of the measures or degrees , and that is christs meaning ; be ye therefore , which therefore doth imply a wherefore , and doth relate to the words going before : ye have heard it hath been said , thou shalt love thy neighbour , and hate thine enemy ; but i say unto you , love your enemies , blesse them that curse you , do good to them that hate you , and pray for them which despightfully use you , and persecute you , that you may be the children of your father which is in heaven ; for he maketh his sun to shine ( or rise ) on the evil and the good , and sendeth rain on the just , and the unjust ; be ye therefore perfect as your father is perfect . have you the same part or quality of perfection as your father hath ? but who can say , he loveth his enemies in that measure and degree , as god our heavenly father loved his enemies ? that he sent his only begotten son to dye for his enemies . i am certain to quaker hath that perfection , for in stead of blessing and praying for their enemies , they curse them , as i shall shew more at large hereafter . also , perfection is sometimes taken for the sincerity of man , or singlenesse of heart , in opposition to a double-minded hypocritical man ; and so is it said of job , that he was perfect and upright , that is , he was a man of a single heart ; for if we mark what job said of himself , we shall finde that he was a man that confessed his own infirmities and weaknesse ; if i justifie my self , mine own mouth shall condemn me , if i say i am perfect , it shall also prove me perverse . also he saith , i have heard of thee by the hearing of the eare , but now mine eye seeth thee ; wherefore i abhor my self , and repent in dust and ashes . surely job was no quaker , for they say they are perfectly freed from sin , and in stead of abhorring themselves , they justifie themselves . again , you object that the apostle paul saith , that he preached wisdome among them that are perfect , and let as many as are perfect be thus minded . to which i answer , that the apostle speaketh of the perfection of justification , in and through the righteousnesse of christ , and not of inherent perfection : for the apostle in that third chapter to the philippians saith of himself ; not as though i had already attained either , were already perfect , but i follow after , if that i may apprehend that , for which also i am apprehended of christ jesus . by which , the apostle declareth that he was imperfect , in regard of his apprehending of christ ; for as he saith in another place , we all know but in part , and believe but in part , but we are perfectly apprehended of christ , and he hath already perfectly redeemed us , and saved us : wherefore we that believe , should be of the apostles minde , to forget those things which are behinde , and reaching forth unto those things which are before . i presse toward the mark , for the price of the high calling of god in christ jesus . let us therefore as many as be perfect , be thus minded ; that is , as many as are perfect by justification . but you will say , that the apostle was then in his warfare , as you say he was when he writ the seventh chapter to the romans . to which i answer , that the apostle , and every christian , are in a warfaring condition , so long as they live in this world , else why doth the apostle exhort the ephesians , to take unto them the whole armour of god ; for we wrestle not with flesh and blood , but against principalities , against powers , against spirituall wickednesse in high places . and the apostle writing to timothy , saith , he is a good soldier of jesus christ , and saith , fight the good fight of faith : for every christian hath three great enemies to fight against so long as they live ; the devill , the world , and the flesh ; and i say you are no christians , if you do not finde these enemies to fight against . christ is called the captain of our faith. i marvel that you quakers are so proud , to think and say you are more perfect than the apostle paul , but you say that paul had overcome his corruptions . to which i answer , that the apostle saith , that he had a thorn in the flesh , the messenger of satan to buffet him ; for this thing i besought the lord thrice , that it might depart from me , and he said unto me , my grace is sufficient for thee . now , by that thorn in the flesh , is understood some corruption , or some temptation which he was troubled with , and was to war and fight against it so long as he lived ; for the lord denyed his petition to take it away , but answered him , my grace is sufficient to support and uphold thee . wherefore know , that so long as the church of god in general , or any member in particular , have spiritual enemies , so long are they in a warfare : but the church and people of god have spiritual enemies , so long as they live in this world , therefore are in a waring condition , so long as they live in this world . but you object , the apostle john saith , he that commiteth sin is of the devil . i answer , by the committing of sin is meant , for a man to give himself up wittingly , and willingly to sin , to love it , and delight in it ; now a christian may say as the apostle paul said , i do the evil that i would not , so that it is no more i that do it , but sin that dwelleth in me . also the apostle saith , he that is born of god sinneth not , for his seed remaineth in him . to which i answer , that as a christian is regenerate or born of god , the regenerate part sineth not ; but there is in every christian an unregenerate part , which some time , as the apostle saith , rebelleth against the law of my minde , or regenerate part , and leading me captive unto the law of sin , which is in my members . then i my self , though an apostle , in my minde serve the law of god , but in my flesh , or unregenerate part , the law of sinne . but some of you do farther object and say , that adam in paradise was perfect , and in his innocency had no sin in him , and all that are regenerate and born again , are as righteous as adam was in innocency . to which i answer , that every believer is as righteous in and through christ the second adam , as adam was in the estate of innocency , and hath a more excellent righteousnesse than adam had before his fall ; for adams righteousnesse was but that righteousnesse , in which he was created , the righteousnesse of a man subject to be lost : but the righteousnesse which every christian hath in and by christ , by which alone he is justified , is the righteousnesse of god , as the apostle saith , we are made the righteousnesse of god in him , for it is the righteousnesse of him who is god. [ minde ] in him , not in your selves , for if our righteousnesse were in our selves , then might it be lost , as adams was : but that conceit of yours , of being as righteous in our selves as adam was in paradise , you quakers learned of the familists and adamites ; and as the adamites did many of them go many times naked , to manifest that they are as perfect as adam was , so have many of your quakers go●e up and down naked , to manifest that they are as perfect as adam was in innocency , who was naked and was not ashamed : and some of your company have justified the lawfulnesse of their going naked , because adam and eve were naked in paradise , and were not ashamed . but all this doth proceed from your ignorance of the righteousnesse of christ by faith , by which alone we are made perfect , not in our selves but in christ ; according to that saying of the apostle , not by works of righteousnesse which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us , that being justified by his grace , we should be made heirs , according to the hope of eternal life . but i say , you being ignorant of this righteousnesse of justification , go about to stablish an imaginary righteousnesse in your selves , by which you rob christ of his glory , and take the glory due to him unto your selves ; and i have been the larger in this point , that so you may be convinced of this your grosse error , for if you erre in this , you erre in the foundation , and stumble at christ the corner-stone , who will break you in pieces . but if a man hold the foundation , and build upon this foundation , gold , silver , precious stones , wood , hay , stubble : if a mans work shall be burnt , he shall suffer losse , but he himself shall be saved ▪ yet so as by fire . wherefore , i say , if you did hold the foundation for your other stuffe of wood , hay and stubble , i should believe you might be saved , yet so as by fire . and now i hope i have proved , that our ministers do not preach to maintain people in sin , but contrary , they preach that we are justified and made perfect in and by the righteousnesse of christ alone , which righteousnesse apprehended by faith , doth draw the soul out in love to god in christ , which love of christ , doth constrain them to walk in all works of righteousnesse towards god , and love to their brethren ; and these works are evidences of the truth of their faith ; and negatively , wheresoever these good works are wanting , there is no true saving justifying faith. now i come to your last ground , by which you would prove our ministers to be false teachers . your seventh and last ground is , because there is no better fruits of or by their preaching , for say you , there are many sins , in which both priest and people do live in . for answer to which , i say , that if this be a ground to prove a minister to be no true minister , because the people unto whom he preacheth , liveth in many sins ; then i say by the same ground , you may as well prove that the prophets and apostles were no true teachers ; for the lord sometimes sendeth his prophets among a people , not for their conversion , but to harden them in their sins , and to leave them without excuse . noah was a preacher of righteousnesse , and preached to the old world , to have them repent , and yet they repented not , but god brought a floud , and drowned the whole world , except noah and his family ; and will you say that noah was not therefore a preacher of righteousnesse , or a true preacher ? and afterward , was not noah overtaken with drinking the wine that he made of the grapes , that he was drunk , and yet that sin of his did not prove him to be no true teacher ? also just lot , so called , did labour by teaching , reproving and exhorting the sodomites to repent and turn from their wickednesse , but could not prevail , and god destroyed them with fire and brimstone from heaven . and lot after that great deliverance fell into grosse sins , namely , drunkennesse and incest : was he not therefore a good teacher ? also the prophet samuel , what pains did he take with the children of israel to reclaim them from their sins , but could not prevail , for the lord said , they have not rejected thee but me ; was he not therefore a true prophet ? also the prophet elias , how little did he prevail with the children of israel to reclaim them , insomuch that he saw none but himselfe , that was not fallen to worship ball ? saying , they have slain thy prophets , and i am left alone . also the lord said unto the prophet esai , go and tell this people , hear ye indeed , but understand not , and see ye indeed but perceive not . make the heart of this people fat , and make their eares heavy , and shut their eyes , least they see with their eyes , and hear with their eares , and understand with their heart , and convert and be healed . then said i , lord how long ? and he answered , untill the cities be wasted without inhabitants , and the houses without men , and the land be utterly desolate . and the prophet complaineth , that all day long i have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and a gain-saying people . and was not the prophet isaiah therefore a true prophet ? but you will say , these were before christ was come in the flesh : wherefore i shall shew you the same in effect after christ his coming in the flesh ; to omit what christ complaineth of concerning the obstinate jews , in which i might be large , only take that one complaint of his , o jerusalem , jerusalem , thou that killest the prophets , and stonest them which are sent unto thee , how often would i have gathered thy children together , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings , and ye would not ? behold your houses are left unto you desolate . now if christ , who was god as well as man , complaineth that jerusalem would not be gathered or converted unto him , is it any strange thing that those that follow him do see such small fruit of their labours . wherefore take a view of what followed after christ his ascention , and after the full accomplishing of christs promise to send the holy ghost . the apostle paul , after he had with much labour by preaching , gathered a people in corinth , what fruits did spring up and grow among them ? there was great divisions and contentions among them ; every one of you , saith , i am of paul , and i of apollos , and i of cephas , and i of christ . also the apostle saith , that it is reported commonly that there is fornication among you , and such as is not so much as named amongst the gentiles , that one should love his fathers wife , and ye are puffed up and have not rather mourned . also the apostle complaineth that there were divisions among them about the lords supper : for in eating every one taketh before other his own supper , and one is hungry , and another is drunken : and was not the apostle therefore a true teacher of the gospel of christ ? and was not the church of corinth therefore a true church of christ ? according to you quakers tenets or opinions , they are no true churches in which there are divisions , and in which there are any sins and corruptions , and so much is implyed and expressed in your paper , where , by the way , i shall now write something to confute that error of yours , in which you are not alone , for you have too many that erre with you for company , besides quakers . now i have read several of your pamphlets , in which you write , that the church is in god , and is spiritual , and that there is no true church , where there is divisions , and where there is sin ; this richard farnworth , burroughs , and several other wr●teth : wherefore i desire you to take notice , that the apostle paul writeth to these corinthians , and calleth them the church of god at corinth , notwithstanding those corrupt members that were among them , such as you can scarse finde in the worst of our congregations . also the apostle writing to the galatians calleth them the churches of galatia , and that the apostle saith , o foolish galatians who hath bewitched you , that you should not obey the truth ? and are ye so foolish having begun in the spirit ? are ye now made perfect by the flesh ? that is , by the works of the law , which the apostle calleth flesh . also the apostle writing to the thessalonians , calleth them the church of the thessalonians which is in god , and yet the apostle saith , there were some unruly persons among them , and some disorderly persons which the apostle calleth brethren ; that the withdrawing your selves from every brother that walketh disorderly , for we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly , working not at all , but are busie bodies ; and if any man obey not our word , by this epistle , note that man , and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed . [ minde ] yet count him not as an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . surely the apostle w●s no quaker , for they deny to call any man or woman brother or sister , though they walk never so orderly , if not of their minde ; but say they are heathen ; this i have heard several of your company speak . also christ himself unto the church of ephesus saith , that thou hast left thy first love ; and unto the angel of the church in pergamus , that thou hast them that hold the doctrine of balam , so hast thou them that hold the doctrine of the nicolaitans , which thing i hate . and unto the angel of the church of thiatira , i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jezabel , which calleth her selfe a prophetesse , to teach and to seduce my servants ; like the women among you quakers , that take upon them to teach . and unto the angel of the church of sardis , i know thy works , that thou hast a name , that thou livest and art dead . and unto the angel of the church of the laodiceans , i know thy works , that thou art neither cold nor hot , but luke-warm : the worst of all tempers in religion . now minde , that christ doth commend what ever was good in any of these churches , and reproveth them for their evill , but calleth them churches , and the ministers angels : but you quakers will take no notice of any good that is in any of our churches , or ministers , but are like the crow or raven , that love to feed upon carren ; so your only delight is , to revile against our ministers and churches , and to publish any fault you can finde in them ; but i never read in any of your books , one word of commendation of any minister or church but your selves , neither did i ever hear any of you quakers speak in the praise or commendation of any minister , or any church or people but your selves , but railing and reviling , i have heard more than enough of . but surely you quakers have no love to any but your selves , for the apostle saith , that love covereth a multitude of faults , and that charity ( or love ) suffereth long , and is kinde , envieth not , vanteth not it selfe , is not puffed up , thinketh not evill , beareth all things , believeth all things , hopeth all things . but you quakers vant your selves , are puffed up with spiritual pride , think & speak evil of all persons that are not of your minde , calling them reprobates , heathens and dogs , and that you are the only church of christ , being pure from sin , and so do not only condemn all other churches now in being , but all that ever have been : i , the famous churches of asia , corinth , galatia and thessalonica , who were the first churches , and were ( as brightman in his book called a revelation of the apocalips ) the best and the purest churches : for after the apostles dayes , greater corruptions sprang up in the church . now , if there were such corruptions in the church in the first and purest times , shall we think to have the churches in our times free from all corruptions ? i do not write these things to plead for sin and corruption , i rather desire to mourn and be humbled for them : but i write these things to shew you your great mistake , in that you say there can be no true church nor ministers , where such fruits are : but beware of condemning the generation of the just , because of miscarriage of some persons , that live in the church or , because of the faults and infirmities of the godly men in the church ; remember what a curse ham brought upon himself , for uncovering his fathers nakednesse , and what a blessing shem and japhet brought upon themselves , for covering their fathers nakednesse . but above all , take heed of slandering and belying our ministers , and churches , by accusing them falsely , a sin that is too frequent among you it is better to erre in over much charity , then in sensoriousnesse and rash judging . but that i may the better rectifie your judgements , and all other that separate from our churches , i shall endevour to shew you your mistake in , and about the perfection of the church of christ , which i conceive is , because you do not distinguish between the outward visible church of christ , and the invisible church , the mystical body of christ . now i say , that the invisible church is perfect in christ , because all the members of that church , are members of the body of christ , being joyned in one spirit , and to such the apostle peter doth speak unto . peter an apostle of jesus christ , to the strangers scattered throughout pontius , galatia , cappadocia , asia , and bithynia ; elect , according to the foreknowledge of god the father , through sanctification of the spirit unto obedience , and sprinkling of the blood of jesus christ . also the apostle to the hebrews saith ; but ye are come unto mount sion , and unto the city of the living god , and unto the heavenly jerusalem , and to an innumerable company of angels , to the general assembly , and church of the first born , which are written in heaven , and to god the judge of all , and to the sprinkling of just men made perfect , and to jesus the mediator of the new covenant , and to the blood of sprinkling , that speaketh better things than the blood of abel . now minde , the apostle saith , they are elected or chosen the church of the first born , which are written in heaven : but when jesus christ speaketh of the visible , external church , he saith , many are called , but few are chosen : that is , many called to the profession of the gospel of christ , but few of those are elected and chosen to life and salvation . also christ saith , the kingdome of heaven is likned unto ten virgins , which took their lamps , and went forth to meet the bridegroom , and five of them were wise , and five were foolish . [ minde ] they were all virgins , and they all had lamps , that is , they all had the outward external profession of the gospel , but the wise virgins only had the oyle of grace . also christ saith , the kingdome of heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea , and gathered of every kinde good and bad : now , by the kingdome of heaven , is not meant the kingdome of glory , but the chruch visible here on earth , in which there are good and bad . but you say that our ministers are no true teachers , because they profit not the people ; to which i have answered in part before , where i shewed , that the prophet esai profited not the people of israel , and yet was a true prophet : but i do deny what you speak to be true , and say , that our ministers do profit the people , what ever you say to the contrary ; because a blind man cannot see the sun , therefore doth not the sun shine ? because you quakers , who are blinded with error , and cannot see that our ministers doth profit the people , do they not therefore profit the people ? i shall shew you what i see and know of a truth of their profiting the people : i have known several ministes , who have come to parishes to preach , where the people have been generally ignorant , profane , and superstitious , and god hath so blessed the labours of the ministers among those people , that they have been generally reformed from their ignorance , profanenesse , and superstition ▪ and is it not profitable to people that were ignorant , to be instructed ? for those that were profane , to be morally civil ? for those that were superstitious , to be brought off from their superstition ? and many that have been , not only convinced of their sins , but truly and really brought to believe and repent of their sins , and many that have been in great horrour and trouble of conscience , even ready to despair , have been by their meanes , as instruments , raised up , and have received true spiritual comfort , and are not such profitable ministers ? also they do by their preaching , strengthen and confirm the faith of believers , for it is the work of a minister of christ , not only to convert , but also to strengthen , and confirm those that are converted , that they may grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our lord jesus christ , though you quakers say you are so perfect , that you cannot grow in knowledge , nor grace . also know , that were it not for our publick ministers , people would in time , grow atheistical , and become like savage , bruitish heathens ; as for those sins which you say do abound among teachers , and people : i say it is no new thing for you quakers to accuse , revile , and slander all men that are contrary to your judgement : but if such sins did abound among us , that doth not prove our ministers to be no true ministers , nor our churches to be no true churches , for i have proved that there hath been as great sins in the first age of the church , as in corinth , galatia , thessalonica , and the churches of asia , and yet they were all true churches , and the ministers true ministers ; but for your selves , you are like the pharisees , that could finde faults in others , but could see none in themselves . and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye , but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye ? which bringeth me to the tryal aud examination of the perfection among you quakers , that it may appear whether you be the innocent lambes of christ , the holy seed , the called , the chosen of the lord , the witnesses , the saints , the children of the light , the perfect ones , for so you write in your paper , but it had been better , if it had been written or spoken by others , than by your selfe ; but you follow your fathers the pharisees , who praised themselves , and your fathers the papists , who say they are the only true church , which cannot erre , as you quakers say of your selves . wherefore i shall now endevour to examine your perfection , whether you have that perfection , which the scripture doth hold forth and teach . i have at large proved the perfection which our ministers teach to be by faith alone , in believing what christ hath suffered and done for us . also i have proved , that there is no perfection in our selves , that is to say , no man is able perfectly to keep and fulfill the whole law , in thought , word and deed ; but you quakers say that christ hath abolished the law , an old antinomian error , which hath been often confuted , wherefore i shall not trouble my self about it , but i shall exaamine whether you quakers do perfectly keep and obey the commands of christ and his apostles , and whether you walk according to the example of christ and his apostles . now jesus christ hath given forth several commands , which you quakers do not obey , but teach men that they ought not to be obeyed : now christ saith , that whosoever shall break one of these least commandements , and shall teach men so , he shall be called the least in the kingdome of heaven ; that is , none at all . now , if christ threaten such as teach men to break one of the least of the commands of the moral law , how do you think to escape , that teach men to break his commands , which he gave forth with his own mouth , in the time of the gospel , and that neer the time of his suffering , and ascension ? but you will say , this is a false accusation , wherefore it remaineth on my part to 〈◊〉 it . and to that end , i shall first begin with that 〈…〉 which christ gave to his eleven disciples . and jesus came , and spake unto them , saying , all power is given unto me , in heaven and in earth ; go ye therefore and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost : teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever i have commanded you , and lo i am with you alway , unto the end of the world . now , i do affirm , that this command of christ was given by him , not to the disciples only , but in them , to all the ministers of the gospel that shall succeed them , unto the end of the world ; and that this command , of baptizing in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , is the baptizing with water , which ordinance is to continue unto the end of the world , or christ his second coming . now you quakers do deny the observing of this command of christ , and teach men , not to obey the same , but say , it was a command that was to continue only for a time , untill the coming of the holy ghost ; this several of your teachers have affirmed unto me , at several times , and jona dell , in his book called , a voice from the temple , saith , that baptism and the lords supper , were but ceremonies that were to last but for a time . wherefore i shall prove , that this command of christ to his disciples , was to continue in the church , untill his second coming , and was not to cease at the coming of the the holy ghost , as you say it is : now , [ minde ] the words , and they do plainly prove it , for christ saith ; i am with you alway , even unto the end of the world : now the apostles did not live alway unto the end of the world , but some of your company say , by the end of the world . christ doth not mean the time of dissolving of all things in the world , or christ his second coming , but till the world was ended in them , and that was , when they were perfect : but consider what an absurd interpretation this is , for if that be the meaning , then it must needs follow , that christ left the apostles , when the world was ended in them : but i would know , where you finde the end of the world in scripture , to be taken for the end of the world in a man ; but while you go about to defend one error , you run into many : but i shall shew from the scripture , that this ordinance of water-baptisme , was practised in the church , after the sending of the holy ghost , and after the holy ghost was received by many ▪ in the acts of the apostles we read , that the apostles were all filled with the holy ghost . surely no quaker ever had such a measure of the spirit , and yet the apostles after that baptized with water , as we may read in several places in the acts ; to instance one , which may serve in stead of many , the apostle peter being sent for by cornelius , by the lords own appointment , and coming into cornelius's house , preached the gospel unto him , and many other gentiles . and to him give all the prophets witnesse , that through his name , whosoever believeth in him , shall receive remission of sins ; while peter yet spake these words , the holy ghost fell on all them which heard the word . [ minde ] peters preaching is called the word . then answered peter , can any man forbid [ minde ] water , that these should not be baptized , which have received the holy ghost , as well as we ? and he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord. now , can you tell how to deny this practice of the apostle peter ? if christ his meaning were , that this baptisme , should last but while the coming of the holy ghost , then did not peter know christs meaning , for he obeyed that command of christ , baptizing them after they had received the holy ghost . but as you are ignorant of the covenant of grace , so are you ignorant of the signes or seals of the covenant : for when god made a covenant with abraham , he gave circumcision for a signe or seal of that covenant , and ye shall circumcise the flesh of your fore-skin , and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you . also the apostle saith , that he received the signe of circumcision , a seal of the righteousnesse of the faith which he had , yet being nncircumcised . now , as circumcision was a sign and seal in the time of the law , before christ his coming in the flesh , so hath christ ordained baptisme , a sign and seal of the righteousnesse of faith , in the time of the new testament , to the end of the world ; according to that of the apostle peter , in the dayes of noah , while the ark was a preparing , wherein few , that is , eight soules were saved by water . the like figure whereunto , even baptisme doth now save us ; that is , it is a sign or seal of salvation by the resurrection of jesus christ , who is gone into heaven , and is on the right hand of god. [ minde ] he saith baptisme doth now save us , i never read of a light within us that saveth us . also the apostle john saith , that as there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost , so there are three that bear witnesse in earth , the spirit , and the water , and the blood , and these three agree in one . now , by water can be meant no other thing , than the water in baptisme ; that as water doth wash away the filth of the body , so doth the water in baptisme witnesse , that christ by his blood , hath washed away the filthinesse of sin ; but one of your teachers asked me , if i were so ignorant to believe , that the water in the thames , or any other water , could do a mans soul any good ? to which i answer , that water simply considered in it self , it hath no such vertue , but consider it in relation unto gods ordinance , used according to his command , and appointment , it is profitable to the soul. but you speak and believe like naaman the assyrian , who coming to the prophet elisha , to be cleansed of his leprosie , when the prophet sent him word , to only go and wash himself in the waters of jordan seven times , he was in a great rage , saying , are not the waters of damascus , better then all the waters of israel ? he considered not , that gods command doth give vertue and efficacy to the thing , for which it was appointed : and this cleansing of naamans leprosie , by the water of jordan , was an emblem or type of our baptisme ; we know god did make the walls of jericho fall by the blowing of rams hornes , because he had commanded and appointed so ; it is a great sin to disobey gods command , although the thing commanded , seem never so smal and contrary to our sense and reason . we know what the lord did unto moses , because his son was not circumcised according to gods command ; and it came to passe by the way in the inne , that the lord met him and sought to kill him . now if the lord would not bear with moses his neglect , of circumcising his son , how do you quakers think to escape gods displeasure , who not only neglect gods ordinance of baptisme , but also teach , that it is abolished and uselesse , and make a meer mock at water-baptisme ? but the apostles of christ did highly esteem of that ordinance of baptisme . i , christ himself did not only command it , but honoured it , in being baptized himselfe , who had no need of it , for himself , but that he might be an example unto us ▪ for saith he , thus it becometh us , to fulfill all righteousnesse . [ minde ] christ calleth it righteousnesse . also god the father did highly honour baptisme , in that he opened heaven at the baptisme of christ , and sent the spirit , descending like dove , and lighting upon him , and a voice from heaven , saying , this is my beloved son , in whom i am well pleased . and as god the father , christ his son , and the apostles , did honour this ordinance of baptisme , so did the ministers of the gospel , since the apostles dayes , highly esteem the same . i shall alledge what calvin writeth concerning baptisme , i hope you do 〈◊〉 count him a popish father , in his . sermon on gal. . . his words are these ; and in good sooth all of us professe the gospel , and yet we shall finde a number of people that know not the true use of baptisme , nor whereto it availeth , nor to what end it is ordained ; but such shall pay dearly for taking such a pledge at gods hands , he will shew them that it is too costly a thing to be abused , for as much as it is said to be a seal , whereby we are assured of the benefits of christ his death , and resurrection ; that whereas many have lived , some twenty , some forty , some fifty years in the world , without knowledge to what end they were baptized , it were better for them that they had been born dead , and to have been sunk a hundred times in the earth , than so to have unhallowed so holy a thing . and therefore let us bethink our selves the better , and learn that , although there be but a little water cast upon our heads , yet notwithstanding it is not a vain figure ; for the heavens are opened upon us , and god speaks in it , as it were from heaven , and christ is there present with his blood , as witnesses of the usage and operation of the sacrament . let us think well upon these things , and let them be well rooted in your hearts , by which you , and all others , may see what an esteem calvin had of baptisme . also in his fourth book of institutions , chap. . concerning baptism , his words are these ; baptisme is a token and proof of our cleansing , or to expresse my minde better , it is like a sealed charter , whereby god confirmeth unto us , that all our sins are cancelled , and abolished , that they may never be rehearsed nor imputed . also beza , in his annotations upon the fifth chapter to the ephesians , ver . , christ loved the church , and gave himselfe for it , that he might sanctifie it , and clense it by the washing of water , through the word , that he might make it unto himself a glorious church , not having spot or wrinkle , or any such thing . ( o ) baptisme is a token , that god hath consecrated the church to himselfe , and made it holy by his word , that is , his promise of free justification and sanctification in christ ; ( p ) because it is covered and clad with christ his justice and holinesse . i have written what these two eminent ministers did believe and maintain , concerning baptisme , who lived in the church of geneva , because that church hath and is counted one of the best reformed churches from popery , and therefore i hope you will not say they were popish writers , and i am certain they were no quakers , for they observed christ his ordinance of baptisme , which you deny , teaching , that it is of no use now in the church , in which you disobey christ his command , and walk contrary to his practice , and walk contrary to the practice of the apostles , and all the ministers of the gospel , in the best reformed churches , and therefore are not perfect . but you say , that if it be lawful now to baptize , yet is it not lawful to baptize children , and therefore our ministers do , that which christ never commanded , which is the thing you all fly unto , when you are put upon the tryal of the lawfulnesse of baptisme , and that is one of e. b. his objections against our ministers , in his book called , a just and lawful tryal of the teachers , and professed ministers of this age , and generation , by a prefect proceeding against them , and justly weighed , measured and condemned . which book was given me by a quaker in london , as being unanswerable . i have answered already all the chief grounds and reasons alledged in the said book , against our ministers , but this being one ground , that our ministers baptize or sprinkle infants , and tells them they are christians before they preach to them , contrary to the practice of christ and his apostles . now although it was not in the least any part of my intention , when i began to write , to medle with that controversie of baptizing childen , because i was to write against antibaptists , not anabaptists , yet finding since that , quakers , who are antibaptists , in that they deny all water-baptisme , do make that one of their chief grounds against the lawfulnesse of our ministers , both in their writings and disputings . i was moved to bestow a little more time and labour , in answering you in that particular , although i might have saved that labour , in regard mr. richard baxter hath so plainly proved the lawfulnesse of infant-baptisme , in his answer to mr. tombes : but because i know you quakers do not usually read any books , but such as are of your own stamp , or such as are written in opposition to your opinions , i shall write such grounds and reasons , as i conceive are sufficient to prove the lawfulnesse of infant-baptisme . wherefore i shall first lay down this assertion , that the covenant of grace , which god made from the beginning with adam , and renewed unto abraham , is the same for substance , which we have now in the dayes of the gospel ; and as he did give circumcision , a sign and seal of that covenant before christ his coming in the flesh , whereby they and their children were distinguished from the heathen gentiles ; so hath the lord christ appointed baptisme , a signe and seal of the same covenant in the dayes of the gospel , whereby all those that believe the gospel of jesus christ , they , and their children , are also distinguished from heathen infidels , that believe not the gospel . now , the covenant of grace was made to the children of all those that are within the covenant , i will establish my covenant , between me and thee , and thy seed after thee , for an everlasting covenant , to be a god unto thee , and to thy seed after thee . now , all those that are of the faith of abraham , are the seed of abraham ; and if ye be christs , then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to the promise , and the father to them that are not of circumcision , but also walk in the steps of that faith of our father abraham . now , the children after christ his coming in the flesh , were counted within the covenant , so as to be accounted visible members of the church , and so capable of the outward external sign and seal of the covenant ; i shall prove , first , by the words and example of 〈◊〉 ●imself , when they brought infants unto him 〈…〉 saw it , and they rebuked them , but 〈…〉 and said , suffer little children to 〈…〉 not , for of such is the kingdome of god. now , if children belong to the kingdome of god , then surely the seals of the kingdome do belong unto them . also when christ gave commission to his disciples , he said , go ye therefore and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . now , are not children part of the nations ? and if you say they must be taught first , i answer , that mr. baxter hath proved , that by teaching is in the original , disciple them ; where he also proveth , that children are disciples , as well as others . also the apostle peter said unto those converts in the acts , repent and be baptized , every one of you in the name of jesus christ , for the remission of sins ; for the promise is unto you , and to your children , and to all that are afar off , even as many as the lord our god shall call . now , if the promise did belong unto their children , surely the seal of the promise doth belong unto them , and it cannot be circumcision , for that was abolished : wherefore it must needs be baptisme , which is the badge or seal , whereby christions are distinguished from others . also the apostle writing to the corinthians , some men having unbelieving wives , and the women unbelieving husbands , were in doubt whether they might live together , the apostle therefore doth resolve their scruples , telling them , that there was no cause of separation ; for , saith he , the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband , and the unbelieving husband , by the believing wife , else were your children unclean , but now they are holy . where the apostle cannot be understood of any inherent holinesse , but rather a relative holinesse , which makes the person capable of being a member of the visible church , by the ordinance of baptisme . i know the anabaptists say the meaning is , else were your children illegitimate , that is , base born ; but that cannot be the apostles meaning , for the apostle saith , that the unbeliever is sanctified by the believer . now , i never read in scripture , that being lawfully married , made children holy or unholy ; for i believe jews and turks are lawfully married , but that doth not make their children holy : but if that interpretation were granted , it will serve to prove the point in controversie , for no bastard was to be admitted into the church , and congregation of the jews , and were therefore not to partake of holy things ; but all children that were born , being not bastards , were admitted visible members of the church , and were capable of that federate relative holinesse ; and if the apostles meaning be , of their being not base born , but legitimate , then i say , he doth thereby intimate , that then their children were capable of being made visible members of the church by baptisme , as well as the children of the jews by circumcision ; or else , the jewes and their children , had a greater priviledge in the time of the law , before christs coming in the flesh , than we christians in the dayes of the gospel since his coming : for to be out of the pale of the church , was counted an unholy , unclean condition ; i , they were counted doggs by christs own words , it is not lawful to give childrens bread unto doggs , and without are doggs ; and if the children of the church of the jews were externally holy , by being visible members of the church , and christians children unholy , because no visible members of the church : are not our children in a worse condition than theirs , and so we have lesse priviledge than they ? now the scripture declareth , that the church and people of god , in the dayes of the gospel , have far greater priviledges than the church of the jews , and this christ himself sheweth , where he saith , verily i say unto you , among them which are born of women , arose there not a greater then john baptist , notwithstanding the least in the kingdome of heaven is greater than he : whereby christ would teach us , that john the baptist was the greatest among all the prophets that went before him , because he had the presence of christ pointing at him : behold the lamb of god , that taketh away the sins of the world ; and yet the least believer in the kingdome of grace is greater than he , because christ had not then actually suffered for sin , nor was not risen from the dead , but the least believer doth now by faith see christ hath actually taken away sin by his death and suffering , and is risen again for our justification : also christ saith , blessed are your eyes for they see , and your eares for they hear , for verily i say unto you , that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see , and have not seen them , and to hear those things which you hear , and have not heard them ; and are not these great priviledges ? also the apostle writing to the hebrews , in the eleventh chapter , writeth a catalogue of the faithfull , and in the end concludeth ; and all these having obtained a good report through faith , received not the promise . god having promised some better thing for us , that they without us should not be made perfect : the apostle peter also testifieth the same , teaching what , or what manner of time , the spirit of christ , which was in them did signifie , when it testified before hand the sufferings of christ , [ minde ] and the glory that should follow , unto whom it was revealed , that not unto themselves , but unto us , they did minister the things which are n●w reported unto you ; of which salvation , the prophets have inquired and searched diligently who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you . by which texts of scripture , ye may plainly see , that the church and people of god , in these times of the gospel , have greater priviledges then the church of the jews , and therefore our children as well as theirs , have the priviledge of being outward visible members of the church , which is only by baptism . but you antibaptists , and the anabaptists say , that although believers , have now greater priviledges then the jews , yet it doth not follow , that our children are to be admitted visible members of the church , because there is no express command , nor example for baptizing children . to which i answer , that whatsoever may be proved from the scripture by consequence , to be the scope and meaning of the scripture ; it is sufficient proof , and that is already made good : but seeing you do both stand to have express word of command , or express example , i shall desire you , or either of you , to shew me one command or example in scripture , for the baptizing of those that are grown up , whose parents , one or both were christians , by professing the gospel of christ . now , if you have no rule nor example in scripture , as i am sure you have not , why do you condemn another , when you anabaptists are more guilty in that you baptise those that are of years , whose parents profess the gospel of christ , and were formerly baptised in the name of christ ? unless you count all those that profess the gospel of christ , to be heathens , that are not of your churches , which is a most uncharitable opinion . but you farther object , that the apostles baptibaptized , none but such as did beleive and make a profession of their faith. to which i answer , that it is more then you can prove , seeing the apostle baptized housholds , and it is more then you can tell , there were no children in those housholds , unlesse you know it by revelation . secondly , i say , that those whom the apostles baptized , who were of years , were such as were converted from judaisme , or heathens , and neither they , nor their parents , ever professed the gospel of christ ; and did any of you , or any other , know any of our ministers baptize any jews , turks , or indians , not professing the gospel ; they have baptized some , that have come from those parts , after they have been converted , and made a profession of their faith , according to the example of the apostle . thirdly , i answer , that elect infants may have the root or habit of faith , though not the act of faith , if you believe christs words ; for christ called a little child unto him , and set him in the midst of them , and said who so shall receive one such little child in my name , receiveth me , but whoso shall offend one of these little ones [ mind ] which believe in me . by which words it doth appear , that elect infants , may have the seeds of grace in their hearts ; we read that some have been sanctified from the womb , and that must be by the spirit , for so the text saith , speaking of john baptist , and he shall be filled with the holy ghost , [ mind ] even from his mothers womb . it is the opinion of many ancient and modern ministers , that elect infants do ordinarily recieve the spirit , in , or at their baptism , as christ at his baptism , had the holy ghost descending like a dove , and lightning upon him . now christ was full of the holy ghost before , for in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the god-head bodily . and therefore the descending of the holy ghost , at that time , was to teach us to have a high esteem of that ordinance , as most of our protestant ministers do hold and teach , and as dr. burges doth at large prove , in his book called baptismal regeneration ; where this point of elect infants , ordinarily receiving the spirit , or seal of the spirit , in their baptism , is fully handled , with all objections against it answered ; and i do the more press this point , because the baptism of infants is so much slighted , neglected , and contemned , by many in our days ; for i suppose that elect infants , being meer patients in the work of regeneration , are as capable of the spirits sealing , or applying the blood of christ for the remission of their sins , as those that are of age ; for if there were a power in adam by h●s sin , to make us sinners , before we did actually sin , much more there is a power in christ , to make elect infants righteous , before they have actual faith , else how shall those that dye in their infancie be saved ; and it is the apostles own argument , how strange soever it seem unto you . for as by the disobedience of one man many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one , shall many be made righteous . and by grace are you saved . now , infants are objects of gods grace and free favour , as well as others , and therefore capable of the seal of the covenant of grace , being children of those that professe faith in christ ; for it is not faith , as it is an act that saveth , but it layeth hold on christ the object , and so it is necessary to assure us , that we are in the covenant of grace , but doth not make us in covenant . and if you still object that there is no example for baptizing of children ; i further answer , that seeing you do so much stand upon the express letter of the scripture , i shall prove by the letter of the scripture that children were baptized ; for you may read that there came out of the land of egypt on foot , men besides children , and the apostle saith , that all our fathers were under the cloud , and in the sea , and were all men , women , and children , all baptised unto moses in the cloud , and in the sea. now , that baptism of theirs was written for our example , saith our apostle , that we should not build too much upon outward priviledges , in that we are partakers of baptism and the supper of the lord , as the israelites did , for they were , many of them destroyed in the wildernesse , notwithstanding that they were baptised , and did all eat the same spiritual meat , and did all drink the same spiritual drink , for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them , and that rock was christ ; and there passing thorough the sea were baptised , whereby they were saved from their enemies , the egyptians ; and their enemies there destroyed in the sea , did set forth our salvation by christ , according to that prophesie of deliverance by him , he will subdue our iniquities , and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. that is , into the sea of christs blood , where all our spiritual enemies were destroyed , and we saved ; thou shalt call his name jesus , for he shall save his people from their sins . i shall now give you one reason more , which doth sway much with me , for infant baptism , and that is , the constant practise of all reformed churches , ever since the apostles , days ; i cannot be so uncharitable , as to think or believe , that all the churches of christ ever since the apostles days , lived in the practise of that which was against the will and mind of god ; and this reason did sway much with that truly noble person , robert lord brooke deceased , which i make bold to mention , because i have heard several persons of late affirm , that he was against infant baptism , wherefore i shall write his own words , in his book , called a discourse opening the nature of that episcopacy , which is exercised in england , written a little before his death , in the year . in which discourse he laboureth to prove the unlawfulnesse of episcopacy , as it was then exercised in england , and therefore fit to be abolisht ; where he doth start a question or objection , whether the remedy will not prove worse then the disease , by the change of this church government ? that anabaptism , brownism , and separatism , will increase , and every ley-man will turn preacher . i wish the thing feared had not come upon us , but the reason of the growth and increase of all sorts of errors among us , doth proceed , as i concieve , not from the change of church government , but by reason of having none at all , but suffering a wicked sinful tolleration of all manner of heresies , and blasphemies . now , that noble person was for a change of our church government , not for none at all ; for we see that in scotland , geneva , and other reformed churches , where they had no episcopal government , they kept heresies and hereticks out , better then we did here in england , in the time of the episcopacie . this by the way , to return to what that good man doth write concerning the niceness of anabaptism . i will not , i cannot , saith he ▪ take on me to defend that , men usually call anabaptism : yet i concieve that sect is twofold ; some of them hold free will , community of all things , deny magistracy , and refuse to baptize their children . these truly , saith he , are such hereticks or atheists , that i question , whether any divine should honour them so much as to dispute with them ? much rather sure should alexander's sword determine here , as of old at the gordian knot . there is another sort of them who only deny baptism to their children , till they come to years of discretion , and then they baptize them . but in other things they agree with the church of england . truly these men are much to be pitied , and i could heartily wish that before they be stigmatized with the opprobrious brand of schismaticks , the truth might be cleered to them . many things , saith he , prevail very much with me in this point ; the first he nameth to be this , because for ought i could ever learn , it was the constant custome of the most purest and primitive church , to baptize infants of believing parents ; for i could never find the beginning and first rise of this practise . whereas it is very easie to track heresies to their first rising up , and setting foot in the church . again , saith he , i find all churches , even the most strict , have generally been of this judgement , and practise , yea , though there have been in all ages some that much affected novelty , and had parts enough to discusse and cleer what they thought good to preach , yet was this scarce ever questioned by men of note , till within these last ages . and sure the constant judgement of the churches of christ is much to be honoured and heard in all things that contradict not scripture . now , i believe that this noble person , so much to be honoured , both for his piety and learning , had read more ecclesiastical histories , to find out the rise and beginning of baptising of infants in the church of christ , then all you quakers , unless some jesuits among you , that go under the name of quakers and anabaptists . and yet he could never find the beginning of it , it being constantly practised in the church , ever since the apostles days . but it is an easie matter to find out the beginning of anabaptism , for if you would take the pains to read that book called the rise and growth of the anabaptist in germany , you may find their beginning , and the beginning of your selves , although the name of quakers of far later time , yet those that spring up there were your forefathers , they layed the foundations of your opinions . and , face doth not more answer face in a glasse , then you do answer each other ; as i can shew you in several of their opinions and practises compared with yours ; as their hearkning to a light within them , and revelations which they followed contrary to the scripture , some of them , running about the streets naked , as many of you have done ; some of them burning their clothes , as some of you have done , although at their first springing up , they seemed to be such meek humble saints , that they would suffer any thing ; yet after they had gotten a sufficient number and strength , then they shewed themselves in their colours , for then it was revealed that john of leyden , may be a king , and that all the wicked must be destroyed , and king john and his disciples must govern all , and have all the goods of the wicked , because they had no right to them ; to which end they fortified munster against the emperor , perswading the people that god would feed them by a miracle , it being so revealed to them , by which the poor people were many of them starved , and at last king john and his company taken himself , and two more of his chief companions hanged , and put in three iron cages and set on the top of the three high towers or steeples , the rest banished , two ships laden with them , the author saith came into great brittain , where they first sowed those seeds of heresie , from which have spang up all those errors of anabaptism , familism , antinomianism , adamites , seekers and quarkers . i hope you will be convinced by all that i have written , that your practise in denying the ordinance of baptism , is contrary to the example of christ , and his apostles , and therefore in that you are not perfect . and now i come to a second particular , in which i shall prove that you walk contrary to christ command and example , and the example of the apostles , and that is in that you deny the partaking of the lords supper , and teach that it is abolished , and not to be used in the church of christ , as jona dell in his book , called a voyce from the temple writeth , and several others . wherefore , i shall briefly prove , that it was christs command and example , and the practise of the apostles and all the reformed churches , ever since the apostle days . now , christ before his death , did institute and appoint this ordinance , as you may read in matthew , mark , and luke . and he took bread , and gave thanks , and brake it , and gave unto them , saying , this is my body , which is given for you , this do remembrance of me . likewise also the cup after supper , saying , this cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you . where we are to take notice , that christ saith , this do in remembrance of me , which is a command for them to do as he had done , and that it was christs meaning to have them do the same after his ascension is plain , because the apostles did practise the same afterwards , which they would not have done , had it not been christs command , and the apostle paul doth plainly prove it to be christ command . for i have received of the lord , that which also i delivered unto you ; and what was that , but the supper of the lord ? as the words following shew ; but you will say , how long was the practise of that to continue ? the apostle doth tell you ; for as often as you eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lords death till he come . but you say , christ is come by his spirit to every believer , and that is the meaning of it till he come . to which i answer , that i wonder you quakers are not ashamed , to give such a sense of the words ; and had i not heard it from several of your mouths , and read it in several of your books , i should not have believed it . wherefore , to convince you of your error , pray tell me , whether christ was not come to his apostles by his spirit , and to all others that believed the gospel of christ ? if christ was not come to the apostles by his spirit , how did they write the scriptures ? besides , the scripture saith , that the apostles were all filled with the holy ghost , and began to speak with other tongues ; and yet the apostles practise was to break bread after that ; and therefore the meaning of the apostle , to eat this bread , and to drink this cup , for so often as you eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lords death till he comes , must needs be meant of christs second coming , namely , his coming at the end of the world , when he cometh to judgement , when the saints bodies shall be raised out of their graves , and those that are then alive and remain , shall be caught up together with them in the clouds , to meet the lord in the air ; and so shall we ever abide with the lord ; where then we shall have no need nor use of sacraments , because faith then shall cease , being swallowed up in vision . but till then we have need of these outward ordinances , to help strengthen our faith , the supper of the lord being appointed by christ himself , to that end , where we may see a representation of christ crucified before our eyes , to help strengthen our faith ; for the apostles themselves had need of these ordinances ; the apostle paul saith , vve know in part . for now we see through a glasse darkly , but then face to face , [ mind ] now i know in part but then shall i know , even as also i am known . now is it not a horrible pride in you , to say , you are more fuller of the spirit than the apostles , that you have more knowledge , and stronger faith than the apostles ? for you see , the apostles made use of this ordinance to strengthen their saith , and if you say , you have no need of this partaking of ordinances , do not you declare your selves to be more perfect than the apostles ? but jona dell in his voyce from the temple , doth affirm that you quakers have such an infallible knowledge , that you cannot erre ; but we can smell from whence you sucked in this poyson , even from your father the pope , the great antichrist , who only claimeth this infallible spirit . but this by the way . also jona dell in the said book saith , that this outward ordinance of the lords supper , hath been much abused , and therefore not to be used in the church any longer , as that ceremony of the brasen serpent , after it was abused by the israelites to idolatry , it was broken in pieces , and not to be used any more ; and so he calleth it a ceremony and shadow , and all other ordinances , which having been abused ought to be abolished . for answer to which , i shall only mind you of the example and practise of the apostle paul concerning the same , in his epistle to the corinthians , who had so abused the supper of the lord , as i have not heard of greater , nor the like ; for saith the apostle , in eating every one taketh before other his one supper . and one is hungry and another is drunken . what , have ye not houses to eat and to drink in , or despise ye the church of god ? by which it seemeth by the way , that the place where the corinthians , met , was not a house , but some place set apart for them to meet in . but what did the apostle order and appoint in that case ? did he say , you corinthians have so abused this supper , that i command you not to use it any longer ? no , the apostle was no quaker , for he exorteth them , and instructeth them , how to reform these abuses , and how to receive the supper of the lord aright , and that he doth : first , by laying down christs institution and command unto him , for the use of that ordinance . and secondly , sheweth the great danger of unworthy receiving . thirdly , directeth them how to receive the same aright . but let a man examine himself , and so let him eat of that bread , and drink of that cup. as if the apostle had said , though there be such danger in unworthy receiving , yet would i not have you neglect the same : but examine your selves , and so come . and in the end of the chapter tells them , that the rest i will set in order when i come . but you quakers will have no order . and as this was the practise of christ and his apostles , so hath it been the practise of all reformed churches since the apostles days . you quakers are alone in this practise , and woe be to him that is alone , and a woe be to them who are so wise in their own conceipt , as to think themselves wiser then christ and his apostles , and all the churches of christ , ever since the apostles days , which i leave to your serious consideration ; and be your own judges , whether you be perfect , who walk so contrary to the command and example of christ and his apostles ? seeing the apostle exhorteth , be ye followers of me as i am of christ . and so i come to a third particular , wherein your practise is contrary to the example and practise of christ and his apostles , and all reformed churches . the third particular is , your different practise from christ and his apostles in singing of psalms . wherefore i shall lay down this for a truth , that singging of psalms with a voyce , is a part of gods worship now in the days of the new testament , as well as in the days of the old . for proof whereof , take the example of christ and his apostles , who sang a psalm or hymme together after the administration of the lords supper , which was a time of sorrow and heavinesse ; for christ had newly told them before of his being betrayed , and the time of his suffering was neer at hand , and yet they sang a psalm together , which surely was for our example ; also the apostle paul and silas being in prison , sang praises unto god ; also the apostle paul instructeth and exhorteth the ephesians , to speak one to another in psalms and hymnes , and spiritual songs ; and so to the colossians , teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymnes , and spiritual songs . also the apostle commandeth the corinthians , that such as sing in the church , should not only sing in the spirit , but with understanding . also those who sang when they had gotten victory over the beast , are said to sing the song of moses and the lamb , by which it seemeth , that the song of moses did suit with that deliverance . but it is objected by you and others , that these were not the psalms of david , but some other hymnes , or spiritual songs immediately inspired ; which you like well , and sometimes perswade your selves , that you have such inspirations , and fall a singing meer non-sense , which edifies neither your selves nor others . wherefore i shall shew , that all these three titles , are given to david's psalms ; some are called psalms , some are called hymnes , some are called songs , that is , spiritual songs . the prophet david hath given these titles or names to them . to the chief musician a psalm of david ; also a psalm and song , at the dedication of the house of david , to the chief musician for the sons of korah , a song upon alamoth . now , what reason can be given , why the apostle should direct us in our singing , to the very titles of david's psalms , if it were not his meaning , that we should sing them ; so that you must exclude the psalms of david , from the name of psalms and hymnes and spiritual songs ; or else you must be forced to acknowledge , that we are exhorted to sing them as well as any other . is it not better to sing those psalms or hymns of david , which we know to be indited by an infallible inspiration of the spirit , then to sing such songs or hymns as men invent of their private spirits , or pretend to be immediately inspired by the spirit , which appears to be their own fancies , by the distractions and contradictions that are in them ? doe you not think that christ was better able to indite and sing new psalmes or hymnes then you quakers , and yet we have not the least intimation in scripture , of any new psalm or hymne , indited or sung by christ and his apostles after the lords supper , which certainly would have been recorded by the evangelist , who records far less matters in things which pertain to gods worship . and it is supposed that christ did sing with his apostles , one of these psalms appointed or used to be sung at the end of the passover , and some affirm that it was the psalm , which christ did sing . i confess by the suitableness of the psalm to the occasion , there may be some probability , but i think no certainty . but our psalmes are not the same in meeter , nor the same tunes which the jews had . that seeing the singing of psalmes is a dutie commanded , and amongst others those of david , and hath hid from us the hebrew tunes , wherewith the psalms of david were wont to be sung , it must needs follow , that the lord hath left it to the libertie of the church to sing them in such plain grave tunes as may fit the solemnitie of gods worship , and that because that tunes are but circumstantial and not the substance ; and the church now in the dayes of the gospel is not in her minoritie or young age , but in her man-age or full grown age , as the apostle speaketh , and therefore fitter to appoint circumstantial things in gods worship then the jews , being in their non-age . but davids psalmes are to be sung with davids spirit , or the same spirit which david had , but in your churches wicked persons sing that have not the spirit . that the whole congregation of the church of the jews did sing the psalms of david , and do you think that all those among the jews that sung davids psalms , had the same spirit which david had in composing of them ? though spiritual gifts are necessary to make melodie unto the lord in singing , yet are they not the onely cause and ground of singing ; but the chief ground is the moral dutie lying upon all men by the commandment of god , if any be merry let them sing psalms ; now wicked men are merry as well as godly , though they have no true cause . all men in general are by the commandment of god and by the light of nature taught to pray to god for his blessings and to praise him for his mercies : although i know you quakers say and maintain the contrary , having several times heard you affirm it . but i shall make good what i have written by scripture , that it is a dutie incumbent to all good and bad to pray unto god for his blessings ; is any afflicted let him pray , is any merry let him sing psalmes . also the lord hath given a general commandment to all men upon earth , sing unto the lord all the earth , make a joyfull noise unto the lord , all the lands come before his presence with singing . sing unto the lord all the kingdoms of the earth . o sing praises unto the lord. now , by all the earth , all the lands , all the kingdomes of the earth , is to be understood all the people of the earth , lands and kingdomes , and surely all are not saints in them . the lord is a great god , and a great king above all gods , and therefore make a joyfull noise to him with psalmes , he is to be feared above all gods , and therefore sing unto him all the earth . so that gods greatness and goodness in his works of creation and providence that concerneth all the sons of men in general , are grounds of prayer and praises : the lord giveth food to all flesh , therefore let all flesh bless his holy name , let every thing that hath breath ( wicked men have breath ) praise the lord for his mightie acts , and for his exceeding greatness , and let us call upon him and praise him , for it is he that made us , and not we our selves . now , god made all men , the wicked as well as the godly , and therefore they are bound to pray to god , and praise god as well as the godly ; and therefore the lord threatneth that he will poure out his wrath upon the heathens , and all the families that call not on his name . what then shall become of you quakers , that not onely neglect this dutie of prayer and praysing god in your families , but sit down to meat , and rise from it more like swine then christians . but you teach men so to do , telling them that it is a sin , and so teach men to sin , while you teach them to disobey gods cōmand . the heathen that were in the ship with jonah may rise in judgement against you ; for they by the light of nature knew that god was to be prayed unto , and the heathen nincvites repented , proclaimed a fast , and surely prayed as well as fasted , and god repented of the evil that he had said he would doe unto them : also wicked ahab , when he humbled himself before the lord by fasting , and prayer , the lord said to eliah , seest thou how ahab humbleth himself before me , i will not bring this evil in his dayes . but you object , that the prayers of the wicked are an abomination unto the lord , and so their praises ; for what hast thou to do to take my name in thy mouth , and hatest to be reformed ? i answer , that it is said also by the same prophet , that the plowing of the plow-man is sin , and it is a truth , that the eating and drinking of every man out of christ is sin . will you therefore say that wicked men ought not to plow ? i fear then we should want corn ; and if wicked men should refrain from eating and drinking , would they not strave , and would not they then be guiltie of their own death , and so be self murtherers ? but you must learn to distinguish between actions morally good , and divinely good , and between actions civilly good in themselves , and divinely good . now to plow or do any other action or work of a mans calling , are good civill morall works in themselves ; and yet the person doing them being not justified they are not good unto him , because , whatsoever is not of faith is sin : will you therefore teach that no wicked man ought to doe the works of his calling , nor eat nor drink , because they are sin to him in doing them . the reason is the same in morall works , to hear , read , pray , sing psalmes , and giving of thanks ; they are works morally good , being commanded by the lord , but the person doing them being not justified they are not good to him : but yet ye may no more neglect these duties then the civil duties of your calling . for if a wicked man neglect these morall duties , he sinneth more then in doing of them ; for in doing of them he may have a temporary good , as ahab , and the ninevites ; and we read that when the young man in the gospel said to christ , all these have i kept from my youth , that jesus beholding him loved him ; so that christ did shew his liking and approving of those moral works which he said he had done . wherefore , to conclude this answer , i believe that although a wicked man cannot be saved by his doing works morally good in themselves , yet he shall have less torment in hell then those that do them not , for he that knoweth his masters will and doth it not shall be beaten with many stripes . i have made a little digression in answering these objections , because i desire to take in all your objections by the way , and answer them , hoping you will not be offended seeing your selves are often guilty of the same fault , if it be a fault , i aim onely at your good to rectifie your judgements . but you object , that in our assemblies many sing they know not what , and many do know that they sing many of the psalmes that are not sutable to their condition , nor sutable to the time and season , as when they sing o lord i am not puft in mind , they being proud ; and my hearts desire is bent thy laws to keep , when their hearts is against the law ; this i have heard some of you often object unto me , and others against singing of psalmes . that the ignorance of men in discerning the true matter , or the right manner of a duty doth not exempt them from performing of their duty ; for if a man know not what to pray , nor how , yet that will not excuse him either from praying himself , or from joyning with others that are better acquainted with prayer then himself : so what if many a man know not what to sing , nor how to sing to gods praise , yet that will not excuse him either from singing himself , or joyning with others that have more spiritual skill in that kind then himself . that none are compelled to joyn in singing any psalm in or with the congregation , and if any through ignorance doe sing that which is not sutable to their condition , may not , or must not others in the same congregation sing those things that are sutable to their condition . that the psalmes to be read by such is no sin , unless you count reading the scripture to be sinne ; and why may they not as well sing them as read them , seeing the one is a duty as well as the other , & they may sing them doctrinal as well as read them doctrinal , as the truths contained in the psalms , and such may be convinced by singing them as wel as reading them , as in the particulars objected , o lord i am not puft in mind ; may not a proud person be convinc'd that he ought not to be proud , and when a wicked man singeth , my heart is bent to keep thy law ; may not he thereby be convinced and taught by that doctrine , that his heart ought to be bent to keep the law. that it is ignorance of a mans own condition , and of the matter contained in the psalmes to think or say that the psalmes are not sutable to our conditions : for every psalm setteth forth either the attributes and workes of god and his christ , or else describeth the estate and wayes of the church and people of god , or describeth the estate and wayes of the wicked , or else it doth lively express mine own affections and afflictions , temptations and comfort . but whatsoever the matter of the psalm concerneth , either of god or his christ , the godly or the wicked , my self or others , the good or evil estate of one or other , it ever ministreth fit matter and occasion to me of singing forth the prayses of the lord , since the name of god is to be blessed in and by all , whether it goe well or ill with our selves or others ; and i believe that there is no condition the church is or can be in , in general , nor no condition which any member is or hath been in , but there are psalms sutable to the same , and several clerks are able to chuse such psalms as are fit and sutable for all times , and for all states and conditions of the church , and sutable for all ordinances , and sutable to all doctrines . and lastly , the general practice of the churches of christ , is to me a thing much to be considered , and that it was the practice of the churches of christ after the apostles dayes , several histories do testifie , as mr. cotton doth largely prove in his book written in defence of this ordinance of singing of psalmes against the antipsalmist . but you follow the papists your fathers , who are as great enemies to singing of davids psalmes as your selves ; and i could wish that some protestants were not too much tainted with that opinion . the papist in contempt of singing of psalmes , call them genevah jigs , as you quakers and other sectaries , the brood of antichrist , scoff at our ministers , and people for singing of psalmes , calling them hopkins jigs . but i hope i have sufficiently proved that we follow the example of christ and his apostles , and all reformed churches , and that you do sin in not following the command and example of christ and his apostles , and therefore are not perfect ; and so i pass from this particular , in which i have been the longer , in regard i have been so often opposed by you for practising this duty . and now i come to a fourth particular , in which you walk contrary to the rule of the scripture , and that is your practice in suffering and maintaining women to teach in your meetings , which you call your church . now this practice i have not only heard of , but am an eye and ear witness of , having heard two several women speak and teach in your meetings , where i heard them speak such nonsensical erronious stuff that it is a shame to write it . and this practice is justified and maintained in print , by one of their chief teachers richard fanworth , for so he saith is his name in the flesh , who hath written a pamphlet called , a woman forbidden to speak in the church , the grounds examined , the mystery opened , the truth cleared , and the ignorance both of priests and people discovered ; where by the way take notice , that where ever the letter of the text doth speak directly against your errors , then you say there is a mystery in it , and that none can open , but your selves . but where the letter of the scripture seemeth to speak for your errours , then you say , away with your mystical meanings , the scripture is to be understood as they speak according to the letter , which i have often heard from your own mouths , and read in your books . wherefore i shall indeavour to prove mr. fanworths mystery opened , to be the mystery of iniquity , proceeding from the spirit of antichrist , being directly against the doctrine of christ contained in the scripture . for saith the apostle paul to the corinthians , let your women keep silence in the churches , for it is not permitted unto them to speak , but they are commanded to be under obedience ; as also saith the law ; and if they will learn any thing , let them aske their husbands at home , for it is a shame for women to speak in the church ; also the apostle to timothy , let the woman learn in silence with all subjection . but i suffer not a woman to teach , nor to usurp authority over the man , but to be in silence . object . but you quakers say , that there is a mystical meaning , which none know but your selves . and that is , that by the woman is meant the flesh , and by the speaking is meant the spirit , which is in the saints , and that may speak in the church , whether in man or woman , male or female ; this farnworth writeth , in opening the mystery . also sarah blackbury , when i alledged the apostles words to her in william bonds house , after she had been three or four hours there , a teaching or prating on the lords day , she made me this answer , thou art the woman for thou art flesh , that is , weak , and therefore thou art to keep silence , and i may speak , because i have the spirit , by which the scripture was written ; but thou hast not the spirit , and therefore hold thy babling , for thou knowest not the meaning of the scripture . to which i replied , but what is meant by the husbands , that the women are to learn of , and to ask them at home ? to which susan bond answered , christ was the husband , and of him they were to be taught ; and sarah blackbery seemed to like the answer well , for she made no exceptions against it , neither can she , nor any one else , if their doctrine be true , that they all have an infallible spirit , and cannot erre , else they cannot be perfect , for error is sin ; and i shall prove this to be an error , when i have taken away the false vizzard , which you have put upon the these texts of scripture . wherefore to shew you your error , i shall shew you the great absurdities , that do follow upon your interpretation , and for a full clearing of the text in the corinths , consider the words before ; the apostle saith , ye may all prophesie one by one , that all may learn. for god is not the author of confusion . now , lest the women from the word , [ all ] should think themselves permitted to prophesie , as well as the men , the apostle , to prevent their mistake , whom he knew loved to speak too much ; saith , let your women keep silence in the churches , for it is not permitted unto them to speak ; where take notice , that the apostle speaketh in the plural number , women , and not permitted unto them to speak . the apostle always when he speaketh of the flesh , speaketh in the singular number flesh ; also the apostle speaketh in the plural number , husbands , and not in the singular husband ; by which you may see , what most barbarous conclusions will follow upon your interpretation ; for if by the women be meant the flesh , and by asking their husbands , be meant christ , then is christ the husband of the flesh , and that there are more christs then one , seeing the apostle saith , ask their husbands at home ; by which word , home , it will follow , that christ and the flesh dwell together , and that christ is the fleshes home ; so that you may see by maintaining an error , you run into many grosse errors . but you will say the apostle to timothy , saith , woman , in the singular number . to which place i answer , that there will several errors follow , if by the woman be meant the flesh in that place , let the woman learn in silence , if by the woman be meant the flesh , then is the flesh to learn ; but i suffer not a woman to teach , nor to usurp authority over the man , but to be in silence . if by the woman be meant the flesh , then the flesh can teach , and can usurp authority over the spirit ; for adam was first formed , then eve ; if by the woman be meant the flesh , then is the flesh eve , and was of gods forming . notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing , if they continue in faith , and charity and holynesse , with sobriety ; if by the woman be meant the flesh , then may the flesh be saved in child-bearing , and may have faith , charity and holynesse , with sobriety . now let your selves and others judge , whether you have an infallible spirit , the same spirit that the apostles had that writ the scripture , and that you know the true meaning of the scripture ? and whether such are fit to be teachers of others ? whether men or women that give such interpretations of scripture , and maintain such grosse errors . also the example of all the churches of christ , is a ground why women ought not to speak in the church . but if any man seem to be contentious , we have no such custome , neither the churches of god. but you object , that several women did prophesie . , as deborah , and that one man had four daughters and virgins , and they did prophesie . and your sons and daughters shall prophesie . answer , that those women and virgins , who prophesied , were extraordinarily called , by an extraordinary gift which is now ceased ; and they did not take upon them to be teachers in the church , but did prophesie of such things as were extraordinarily revealed or done in the church ; for the prophesie in the prophet joel , the same was accomplished in the acts , for saith the apostle peter , these are not drunken as ye suppose . but this is that which was spoken by the prophet joel , i will poure out of my spirit upon all flesh , and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie . i would have any of you , shew any one example , where a woman took upon her to be a teacher in the publick church ? if any did take upon them so to do , the apostle teacheth that they did transgresse ; for it is to usurp authority over the man , which is a sin , and for a woman to take upon her to be a teacher unto men , is to exercise the authority of a man , for we read of no women teachers in the church : but you say that none are to exercise authority over others . but are all in the church equal and alike ? which bringeth me to a fifth particular , wherein your practise is contrary to the command , example , and practise of christ and his apostles , and therefore are not perfect . the fifth is your not giving any reverence , honor , nor civil respect unto your superiors and those that are in authority , but are in your carriage tou superiors more like heathens then christians . now it remaineth on my part to prove that christ and his apostles did both command and walk contrary to your practice herein . christ said , give unto caesar , the things that are caesars , and to god the things that are gods. now the name caesar was a word of honour given unto all the roman emperours what ever their names were ; as we used to call our supream magistrate king : now christ though a king himself did not say , give unto william or john the things that are his , but give to caesar ; he gave him the same title of honour that the romans gave him , though a heathen emperour . also christ teaching his disciples humilitie , when thou art bidden of any man to a wedding , sit not down in the highest room , left a more honorable man then thee be bidden of him , and he come and say , give this man place , he being a more honourable person : but when thou art bidden , goe and sit down in the lowest room , that when he that bad thee cometh , he may say unto thee , friend , goe up higher , then thou shall have worship or honour in the presence of them that sit at meat ; by which christ doth teach that some persons are more honourable then others , and such are to be honoured of others . but which of you having a servant plowing or feeding cattel , will say unto him by and by go and sit down to meat , and will not rather say unto him , make ready wherewith i may sup , and gird thy self , and serve me , till i have eaten and drunk , and afterward thou shalt eat and drink ; now though this be to teach us that we are all gods servants , and that when we have done all , we are commanded to say , we are unprofitable servants . we have done that which was our dutie , yet christ useth this similitude , because of the equitableness and justness of the same . and as it is contrary to what christ taught , so is it contrary to the practice and doctrine of the apostles ; for when paul the apostle of the gentiles was brought before agrippa to speak for himself , paul said , i think my self happy king agrippa , because i shall answer for my self this day before thee : ( mind ) the apostle doth not onely say agrippa , but king agrippa , though he were a heathen king. and when he spake for himself , festus said with a loud voice , paul , thou art beside thy self , much learning hath made thee mad ; paul said , i am not mad : ( mind ) most noble festus , though a heathen governour , he gave him the title of honour , that of right did belong unto him . pauls being a christian did not make him brutish and uncivil , the apostle knew that christianitie did not destroy good manners , and what the apostle practised , the same he taught unto others , as you may read in his epistle to the romans , render therefore to all their dues , tribute to whom tribute is due , custome to whom custome , fear to whom fear , and honour to whom honour ; and in the next verse , owe no man any thing but to love one another , implying that it is a debt , that is owing to men in authoritie , and whosoever doth deny the paying of these dues of tribute to whom tribute is due , and custome to whom custome , and fear to whom fear , and honour to whom honour , are debtors to them , though they be heathen governours , for there were no other among the romans at that time ▪ also the apostle to timothy , exhorteth , that first of all supplications , prayers , intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men ; for kings , and for all that are in authority , that we may live a quiet and peaceable life in all godlyness and honesty . the apostle was no enemy to kings and other magistrates , but commanded to pray for them though they were heathens , and persecuted the christians ; but you quakers instead of praying for them , or owning , the name or titles of kings or nobles , revile them and curse them , calling them at the best but by their ordinary names . also the apostle exhorteth children to obey their parents : for this is right . honour thy father and mother , ( which is the first commandement with promise . ) but you teach that the ten commandements are abolished ; and is it honouring of parents to call them william or jone ? also the apostle to timothie , let as many servants as are under the yoke , count their masters worthy of all honour , though heathens . if any man teach otherwise , as you quakers doe , and consent not to wholsome words , even the words of our lord jesus christ , and the doctrine , which is according to godlyness , he is proud , knowing nothing , but doting about questions and strifes of words , whereof cometh envie , strife , railings , evil surmisings . now , do you think that those servants who call them onely by their names , and deny that title of masters , as some do , do count them worthy of all honour . and the apostle exhorteth , that the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour , especially , they that labour in the word and doctrine ; but you deny that any should either rule in the church , or have any honour . also the apostle peter exhorteth to submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , whether it be to the king as supream , or unto governours ; and fear god , honour the king. surely the apostle was no quaker , for the apostle giveth the title of king to the supream magistrate , and would have him and all other governours to be honoured , but you will give no honour , nor titles of honor to any man. also the same apostle exhorteth , wives to be subject to their own husbands , and bringeth the example of sarah for their imitation , even as sarah obeyed abraham calling him lord. whose daughters or children ye are as long as ye do well . we never read that sarah called her husband abraham , or that ever she left her husband and family , to go up and down from one place to another place to teach , as some of you women quakers do , contrary to the apostles command , keepers at home , obedient to their own husbands , that the word of god be not blasphemed . this by the way . also the apostle john , directeth his second epistle unto the elect lady and her children . and now i beseech thee lady . you quakers never learned of the apostle to call a lady gammer , nor persons of a noble descent gaffer , and edward , as some of you quakers have done . also the keepers of the prison fell down before paul and silas , and said , sirs , vvhat must i do to be saved ? now the word sirs is a title of honour , as much as to say in our language , lords , and if it had been a sin in them to give them that title , surely the apostles would have reproved them for it , as they did those that would have worshipped them with divine worship , saying , vve also are men of like passions with you . vvhy do ye these things . now , by all these examples of christ and his apostles it appears , that there is , and ought to be , honour and reverence given to superiors . but you are so brutish and ignorant , that you cannot distinguish between divine honour and civil honour , forgetting that scripture . but you object , that the apostle saith , that in christ jesus , ye are all one . there is neither bond nor free , male nor 〈◊〉 , and thou answer , that a christian is to be considered two ways . first , as he is in christ , that is in the matter of salvation , there is no difference nor respect of persons , but all are equal and alike . secondly , christians are to be considered , as they are members of a common-wealth , or of a family , and so there is a great difference and inequality of persons , and that i would have you mind . for if the woman should be the man , if the subject should be the magistrate , if the son should be the father , if the servant should be the master , would not these things bring a confusion of all states , and of all things , for it is impossible that mankind should be governed without these differences of persons , states , and degrees of men , both in the church and common-wealth , which persons ought of right to have the honour and respect due to them , by all persons , christians , as well as others , unlesse you would have christians more brutish then heathens ; and in that you do deny the same you shew your selves so to be , and therefore are not perfect , and so i come to a sixth particular , in which you walk contrary to the command and example of christ and his apostles . the sixth perticular is , your judging and condemning all persons that are not of your judgement and opinion . that it is your practise so to do , is apparently known to all that have read your books ore , that have had any society or conference with you . jona dell in his voyce from the temple , saith that all that are of the baptist opinion , are in the state of reprobation . and benjamin wallis , one of your teachers in branford , on a tuesday being market day , and lecture day , said in the open street , that they were all damned that followed the teaching of the priests ; also he said in cheeswick in an open field in the presence of many , that all that followed the teachers doctrine that taught in the steeple houses were all damned . now that this is contrary to the doctrine of christ and his apostles is plain by these scriptures , judge not that ye be not judged , saith christ , and in the fifth verse sheweth , that this rash judging is a note or character of an hypocrite . thou hypocrite , first cast the beam out of thine own eye . also the apostle paul to the romans , thou art inexcusable , o man ! whosoever thou art that judgeth . judge nothing before the time untill the lord come , who both will bring to light the hidden things of darknesse , and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts . but why dost thou judge thy brother ? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother ? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of christ . then every one of us shall give accompt for himself to god. let us not therefore judge one another . who art thou that judgest another mans servant ? he standeth or falleth to his own master ; we are all the lords servants , and are all at his disposing and appointment , and therefore what have we to do to judge any particular man or woman ? much less to judge and condemn all the churches that are not of your minds and judgements , to be antichristian , and in the state of condemnation , and that they know only the letter and history of the scripture , and that you only know the mystery and meaning of the scripture , like the pharisees that judged and condemned all that were not of their sect. th●● people that know not the law are cursed . now consider what a most horrid uncharitable thing it is , to judge all the protestant churches , before you sprang up , to be false heretical churches ; for then christ had no church for sixteen hundred years , for there were none of your opinions heard of while these late years , and then christ was a head without a body . and is it not a most unchristian thing , to judge and condemn all for hereticks , and the brood of antichrist , that are n●t of your wild opinions . surely you make the church of christ to be a very small remnant , far lesse than christ hath made them ; for though christs flock be a little flock comparatively , in regard of the great multitude of the world ; yet consider them apart in themselves , they are a great multitude , as you may read in the revelation of st. john the divine , if the word divine do not offend you . and i heard the number of them which were s●aled , and there were scaled an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of israel . after this i beheld , and lo , a great multitude , which no man could number , of all nations , and kindreds , and people , and tongues . but if none but quakers are of the number , surely they might soon be numbered . by all which you may see , that your practise in judging and condemning all that are not of your opinions , is contrary to the command and example of christ and his apostles , and therefore you are not perfect : and now i come to a seventh particular of your practise . the seventh particular is your rayling and revyling against those that are against your opinions ; for proof whereof , i need go no farther then your own letter , where you say , my speaking was barking like a dog , that i vomited up my poysonous stuffe ; and you call all our ministers , antichrists ministers , hierlings , such as recieve the wages of balaam , and are in the way of cain , and is it not the same language you all use , both in your writings and conferences . witnesse naylors books , and fox his books , and burroughs , and tomlinson , in which there is such rayling , reviling language , as cannot be paralell'd from any differing from us , in religion , calling our ministers dumb dogs , wolves , sorcerers , serpents , wandering stars , seducers , deceivers , false prophets , antichrist , lyars , and say all our preaching is an idol , with many other such like stuffe ; and for your words in reasoning with any that is contrary to your opinions ; i believe you can , and do go beyond any billingsgate scolds , i have had experience of your language by what i have heard . thou lyar , thou great whore of babilon , thou serpent , thou divel , thou heathen , with many other such like reviling speeches to my self and others . now i pray consider how contrary this is to the command and example of christ and his apostles . our lord and saviour , when he was reviled , reviled noe again . see that none render evil for evil unto any man. speak not evil one of another he that speaketh evil of his brother , and judgeth his brother , speaketh evil of the law. christ and his apostles , when they were brought before the priests and elders being falsly accused , never used such reviling language as you do use . the apostle jude met with such spirits in his time , these despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities . yet michael the arch-angel , when contending with the devil about the body of moses durst not bring against him a railing accusation . but said , the lord rebuke thee . but these speak evil of those things which they know not . michael the arch angel durst not bring a railing accusation against the devil , but you dare bring railing accusations against men , i , against good men , against the ministers of christ , and against magistrates . christ commanded his disciples to love their enemies , bless them that curse you , do good to them that hate you , and pray for them which despitefully use you , and persecute you ; but in stead of loving your enemies , and praying for them , you revile them and curse them , with which i shall conclude this particular , that you are not the perfect innocent lambs of christ , as you call your sevles in your letter . the eight particular practice used by you contrary to the command and example of christ and his apostles , is your silent meetings , which is a usual practice among you to come together and sit still , hanging down your heads like so many dumb idols liker then christians . now when christ did come with his disciples , he opened his mouth and taught them ; and when he was with his disciples alone , his practice was to teach and instruct them , either by asking questions or instructing them , but , never read of his sitting still and being silent . also the apostle exhorteth the hebrewes , not forsaking the assembling of our selves together , as the manner of some is , but exhorting one another : the apostle never said , assemble your selves together and be silent , that ever i could read . and the apo. jude saith , these be they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit , but ye beloved building up your selves on your most holy faith , praying in the holy ghost . it seems that those who separated themselves , as you do , had not the spirit , and did probably ▪ when they met sit still and be silent , and yet pretended to be the onely holy people , but they did not build up themselves in the faith , praying in the holy ghost ; but ye beloved ; building up your selves on your most holy faith , in the holy ghost . but if they sit still and be silent they doe not build up themselves on their faith , nor pray as is your practice : and for prayer , some of your company are not ashamed to say and write , that ministers praying before and after sermon is a will-worship ; and that you know not one example left for it , either by christ or any of his apostles , and that praying is for the honor and magnificence of our idol , and that is preaching ; they are tomlinsons own words . but let all sober minded persons judge whether your silent meetings or praying and preaching is will-worship , and an idol . if you have no example of christ and his apostles of such silent meetings , then it is an idoll and a will-worship of your own devising , which i challenge all you quakers to bring any one example of christ or his apostles of any such meetings , or any example of any church since the apostles dayes , whether separate or any other ; and do you think that the apostles and all the churches were ignorant of any part of the service of god , while now of late dayes you quakers have found it , or rather invented it , had not they the light of christ within them to direct them , seeing you say all men have the light of christ within them . wherefore i conclude , that this your light is darkness , and this your practice is a meer invention of your own brains , and therefore are not perfect . a ninth particular practice used amongst you , is your quaking fits , with which many among you are strangely taken , falling on the ground , their arms and leggs shaking , their mouths foaming , their bellies swelling , and some of them purging ; to which i may add your strange kind of disfiguring your faces and countenances , hanging down your heads or holding them awry , looking like a company of forlorn dejected condemned persons , that were afraid to look up to heaven . now for those quaking fits from whence you have the name of quakers , many are of opinion that they are diabolical by a kind of witchcraft , and to that end i have heard strange relations of inchanted ribins , of giving of drink , after which the persons have been taken with quaking fits , and some say possessed with the divel . and when i have read john gilpins book , called the quakers shaken , and john toldarns book , called the foot out of the snare , in which they relate such strange kind of actings and workings of their bodies , besides the relations of several others , and compare them with those whom we read of in the evangelist luke ; i confess there is a likeness and a resemblance between them , and lo a spirit taketh him , and he suddenly crieth out , and it teareth him , that he foameth again and bruiseth him : all which actions the quakers have had in their quaking fits , as you may read in the two forenamed books , and many have been eye witnesses of the same effects in others , in which fits some of the chief quakers have said , that now the good spirit was driving out of the bad . but however if it be not a bodily witchcraft , sure it is a spiritual witchcraft whereby the minds of the people are bewitched to believe that those shakings and quakings of the body are from the spirit of god. i have read in the scripture , that the mystery of iniquity in the spirit of antichrist , even him , whose coming is after the working of satan with all power & signes , and lying wonders , and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish , because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved . and for this cause god shall send them strong delusions , that they should believe a lie . i believe these are some of those signs and lying wonders , with which the followers of antichrist shall be deceived . the papists who have deceived you quakers , as that divine lawyer m. will. prin doth at large prove in his book , called the quakers unmasked . also i have read in the scripture , that god hath caused such shaking and trembling to fall upon wicked men as a punishment for their sins , as belshazzar , that his countenance was changed , and his thoughts troubled him , so that the joynts of his loyns were loosed , and his knees smote one against another . and in the philistians camp or loft , there was trembling , and among all the people , the garrison and they all trembled , so it was a very great trembling ; and among those curses pronounced in deuteronomy against wicked men , this is one , the lordshal give thee a trembling heart . and it is threatned as a curse upon the wicked , let their eyes be darkned that they see not , and make their loyns to shake . i wish it be not your condition , that your eyes be not darkned , in that you take shaking for a blessing when it is a curse , the devils are said to tremble . but you object that we read in the scripture of shaking , quaking and trembling , rejoyce with trembling , psalm . . and work out your salvation with fear and trembling , phil. . . and paul is said to tremble , acts ▪ . and the keeper of the prison came trembling before paul and silas , acts . . by trembling , i understand no other then the fear and trembling of the heart generally spoken of in scripture , and not a quaking and trembling of the body , as is usual amongst you quakers and that fear and trembling is twofold . first , that which is at the first act of conversion , as that of paul and the jaylor , whose trembling i understand of the soul , and if it were of the body , it was extraordinary , and not to be brought to a rule , and that fear or trembling of the soul at the first act of conversion is general to all that are truly converted , called the spirit of bondage , ye 〈◊〉 not received the spirit of bondage again to fear , and those that were converted at peters sermon , being about three thousand souls , they were pricked in their hearts : we read not of any trembling or quaking of their bodies , but that they gladly received his word ; and this fear or trembling of the soul at the first conversion is not in all alike , but in some more , and in some less , though in all some . we read that the lord opened the heart of lydia , hearing the apostles , that she attended unto the things which were spoken of paul , and she was baptized and her houshold ▪ we read not of any fear or trembling , much less quaking , and yet no doubt but she had a conviction of her own unworthiness ; the apostle john saith , that perfect love casteth out fear , that is , all slavish hellish fear . secondly , there is a son-like fear after conversion , which is a fear , whereby the soul is fearful of doing any thing that is contrary to the will and mind of such a good loving and kind god and father , and this fear or trembling is no wayes agreeable to the quaking and trembling of the body practised amongst you , nor to the disfiguring your faces with holding down the head , and holding it awry with dejected countenances , which as i said before is usuall among you quakers . now to shew you your error in these things , mind what the lord saith by the prophet isaiah concerning the hypocriticall jews in his time , to bow down the head as a bulrush ; and christ doth describe the hypocrites in his time by the same , saying , they are of a sad countenance , for they disfigure their faces . now consider how contrary these practises are to what the scripture holds forth in the dayes of the gospel ; the prophet isaiah prophesiing of christs coming in the flesh , saith , sing unto the lord a new song , and his prayses from the end of the earth ; ye that go down to the sea , and all that is therein , the ●sles and the inhabitants thereof . by the isles some interpreters do understand , our islands of britain . and fear not , i have redeemed thee , i have called thee by my name , thou art mine : therefore the redeemed of the lord shall return and come with singing unto sion , and ( mind ) everlasting joy shall be upon their head , they shall obtain gladness , and joy , and sorrow , and mourning shall flee away ; i , even i am he that comforteth you , who art thou that thou shouldest be afraid ? how beautiful are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings , that publisheth peace , that bringeth good tidings of good , that publisheth salvation , thy watch-men shall lift up the voice ; with the voice together shall they sing , break forth into joy , sing together : ( mind ) the ministers of the gospel , their feet are beautifull , they bring good tidings of peace and salvation , they shall lift up the voyce , with the voice together , with the people shall they sing contrary to the practice of your teachers or praters , who revile against singing . but the prophet david prophesiing of christs kingdom , saith , the voice of rejoycing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the the righteous ; and this salvation made the virgin mary to sing , my soul doth magnifie the lord , and my spirit hath rejoyced in god my saviour , and this salvation caused the heavenly host to sing gods prayses , saying , glory to god in the highest , and on earth peace , good will towards men ; and christ said to his disciples , rejoyce that your names are written in heaven ; and the apostle paul saith , the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost . the apostle did not place the kingdome of god in meat and drink , nor apparel as you quakers do . and the same apostle exhorteth the philippians , to rejoyce in the lord , and to rejoyce in christ jesus and rejoyce in the lord alway , and again , i say rejoyce ; and he commendeth the thessalonians , that they received the word in much affliction with joy of the holy ghost , and exhorteth them to rejoyce evermore ; and this joy of the soul though it be inward in the heart , yet it is manifested in the countenance an outward gesture , as salomon the wise saith , a merry heart maketh a chearful countenance , and a sad heart a dejected countenance : a●● example we have in cain , having a guilty conscience , it is said , his countenance fell , and the lord said unto cain , why art thou worth , and why is thy countenance fallen ? the lord would have cain know that his countenance did discover the guilt of his inward part , his soul . i cannot believe that those who have true inward peace and joy , can have such heavie dejected countenances as most of you quakers generally have . i can know you by your countenances , though i never saw you before , nor heard you speak : and i wonder not that you are generally of such heavie dejected countenances , because you do not believe that you are justified by faith , but by what you do act and work or by what is acted and wrought in you ▪ now the apostle saith , being justified by faith , we have peace with god , through our lord jesus christ , by whom also we access by faith into this grace , wherein we stand and rejoyce in hope of the glory of god , and hope maketh not ashamed , because the love of god is shed abroad in our hearts and not onely so but we also joy in god through our lord jesus christ ; by whom we have now received the attonement . oh that the lord would by his spirit perswade your hearts to believe this doctrine of iustification by faith alone , and then i doubt not but you would soon change your countenances . and yet i know , the natural constitution of the body , doth much prevail with many , for those that are of a melancholy constitution , cannot so well express the joy and comfort in the heart , as those that are of another temper ; and it is my charity to believe that most of you quakers are of that melancholy temper , which doth much help forward your quaking fits , and your dejected countenances . but if your hearts were well grounded in the doctrine of justification by free grace , it would bring you some of your quaking fits , and would make you strive to express the peace and joy of your hearts , by your countenances ; for i believe it is a sin to walk so heavily , with such dejected countenances , because i conceive it bringeth dishonour to god , that his people should walk so , as if god had never sent a christ to save them and redeem them , and purchased heaven for them ; is he not gone to prepare a place for them ? it is for wicked men who have not tasted nor seen the goodnesse of the lord in the land of the living , whose portion is only in this life so to walk . also it is a sin , because it is a means to hinder others from coming into the society and company of the godly ; for will not they think and say , surely these are none of gods children , that look as though they never had any joy or comfort in all their lives . i have heard some persons say , when they have come to the quakers meetings to hear them , and seeing in what posture they sit , hanging down their heads , sighing and groaning ; i will never be of this religion , for these people look like a company of condemned persons , that were going to be executed , liker then christians that hoped to be saved by christ . wherefore i conclude this particular , that this your practice of quaking and dejected carriage , is a sin , and therefore you are not perfect . and so i come to the tenth and the last , which i shall trouble you and my self with . the tenth perticular practise , much used by you quakers , is , lying ; now that ling is a sin i need not trouble my self to prove , i hope you will all confess it ; i wish i could convince you , that you are guilty thereof , which i hope i shall plainly prove ; and first , do not you say that you are perfect , free from all sin , which i have already proved to be false , therefore you maintain a lie , nay you do make god a lier , for so saith the apostle iohn , if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us . if we say that we have not sinned , we make him a lyer , and his word is not in us ; you make god a lier , because he saith , all men are liers ; you are men , therefore liers , and therefore sinners in themselves , which i have formerly proved at large . wherefore i should insist upon those lies , which you have written , and printed , and reported . for those untruths which thou john horwod hast written in thy letter concerning the ministers and my self , i shall but briefly touch them . thou sayest that our ministers keep people in sin , abominable lie ; for they preach against sin : thou saist that our ministers know nothing but by tongues and art , and that they preach for nothing but money : most gross lies : if our ministers did not preach for conscience , to discharge their duties in publishing the truth , how , and why have so many of them suffered the loss of their lives and estates , and so many lost their livings , and suffered imprisonment , and some banishment . i never heard of any quakers , that suffered so much for their religion , nor never shall , for it is not worth suffering for ; but you cry out of suffering and persecution , when none hurt you , and that is another of your lies , that you are persecuted , when you are only perswaded out of your errours . and this i know by experience , and shall endeavour to clear my self from your lying slanderous tongues : for some of your quakers did report to several of my friends and acquaintance in london , and to some of near relation , that i was the greatest persecutor of the quakers in all the countrey , which is a most gross lie ; for i never did doe them the least harm , but indeavoured to doe them all the good that lay in my power , both by labouring to convince and reclaim them from their errors , and by endeavouring to restrain people from offering any violence against them ; i was sent by the magistrate to desire a man at whose house they met , to come to him , where the minister of the place was present ; and the magistrate and minister both did use all the love and meekness that could be expressed to perswade and convince him of his errour , and did bring such plain proofs from scripture , to prove him to be seduced and brought into severall errours , that both of them and my self did hope that the man was convinced , he promising to come to the ministers house for a catechise of the grounds of religion , and to read the same ; but after the man came to his old company of quakers , they turned him to his errours , and did continue their meetings at his house on the sabbath day , and on the thursdayes where i had several conferences with them and their teachers ; and seeing many rude boyes and others come about the door ; i desired the magistrate to send the officers of the parish to fetch them away from the house , lest their should be any disturbance ; which he did . and now let all persons that hear this judge whether there were any persecution in all this , and whether it was not a lie ? to say , that i was the greatest persecutor of them in the countrey ; for at branford some of them were set in the stock , some sent to newgate , and indited at the scessions , and severall of them beaten , and was my reasoning with them , and endevouring to reclaim them and endeavouring to restrain rude persons from disturbing them worse than all that they suffered at branford , which i never knew of while afterward ? but the first time that i met sarah blackbury at cheeswick , after some discourse with her , she looked on me and said , thou wilt be a great , or the greatest persecutor of gods people in all this countrey : and i suppose , because she would be counted a true prophetess , she raised this lie on me , which was soon spread abroad by her disciples , for she was counted one of the chief teachers , and doth send several of them abroad to several places to teach , or rather to seduce and spred their lies abroad , which are so many , that i should weary my self to write them , and others to read them ; wherefore i shall onely make mention of the lies in print , which are the greatest lies in print that ever i read ; and that is in a book or pamphlet , called , a just and lawfull trial of the teachers and professed ministers of this age and generation , by a friend to englands common-wealth , for whose sake this is written and sent abroad . e. b. which book being given me as a piece unanswerable in the conceit of him that gave it me , i did ingage my self to answer it ; i saw it was nothing but revilings and slanders , and lies against our ministers , and indeed they are the buts at which they shoot their arrowes ; and the truth is , i had answered all the chief grounds alleadged in the said book against our ministers , before i saw it , in answer to john horwood . but for those many lies in the said book , i shall give answer to some of the chiefest , proving them to be grosse lies , and therefore , that he who writ the same being a quaker is not perfect . the first of e. b. his grosse lies against our ministers is , that our ministers do things , contrary to the spirit of jesus , and they have seen nothing but lying vanities , and divinations ; whereby they seduce the people , for life is promised him , though he be wicked and ungodly , living in all unrighteousnesse . now i appeal to the consciences of all that hears this , whether this be not a grosse lie ; for was there ever any minister in the worst of times , or the worst of ministers , that ever taught such doctrine , or speak such words ? but how doth this profound lier prove these words ? for , saith he , they tell him that christ is his righteousnesse to justifie him ; and then he thinks he needs not turn from his sin , and so their hands are strengthned , that they cannot turn from their sins . by which e. b. doth discover his grosse ignorance as well as malice . for he doth believe that the doctrine of free justification by christ his righteousnesse , is a doctrine that doth teach peole to live in all unrighteousnesse . but doth not this lier make the apostle paul to be a false teacher , and one that had seen nothing but lying vanities , as well as our ministers , seeing the apostle taught the same doctrine , now to him that worketh not , but beleiveth on him that justifieth the ungodly , his faith is counted for righteousnesse . even as david describeth the blessednesse of the man unto whom god imputeth righteousnesse without works , for as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one , that is , christ shall many be made righteous , being justified freely by his grace , through the redemption that is in jesus christ . and did not the apostle john teach the same doctrine ? and if any man sin , we have an advocate with the father , jesus christ the righteous , and he is the propitiation for our sins . and herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins . and were these apostles false teachers , and did they teach the people to sin , because they taught this doctrine of justification by the blood and righteousnesse of christ ? i know the false apostles , did slander the apostles as you do . for the apostles teaching this doctrine of being justified freely by the righteousnesse of christ , saith , we be slanderously reported , and as some affirm that we say , let us do evil that good may come thereof . and the apostle saith , where sin abounded , grace did much more abound . what then shall we say ( as you quakers do ) then we may continue in sin , that grace may abound ; god forbid , saith the apostle , that any should make such a conclusion from this doctrine , and you are not under the law but under grace . what then ? shall we sin because we are not under the law , but under grace , god forbid , the apostle knew , that those whose hearts god hath touched with the apprehension of this doctrine , of the free grace and love of god in christ , would not make any such conclusions . for saith the apostle , the grace of god , that bringeth salvation , teaching us , that denying ungodlinesse and worldly lusts , vve should live godly , righteously , and soberly . the doctrine of free grace , doth not make christians carnal libertines , but ingageth them to walk in all thankfulnesse unto god , the love of christ constraineth us , saith the apostle . the sons of agar that are in bondage , they are frighted from sin by the terrors of the law , and fear of hell , but those that are of the free woman in the new covenant of grace , they are free , their hearts are chiefly inlarged by the apprehending the free love of god in christ , vvho so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever beleiveth in him should not perish . and christ is the good shepherd that giveth his life for the sheep . and can any man , that by faith apprehendeth this love , go on in sin , as you say ? no , no , you know not what you say , take the example of mary magdalen , many sins are forgiven her , for she loved much : her loving much , was not the cause of the forgivenesse of many sins , as the papists say , and you quakers . now consider , whether christ and his apostles did not teach the same things which our ministers do , and you may as well , and as truely say , they taught people to live in sin , as you may say , that our ministers do so , for they preach the doctrine of justification no other way , nor to no other end , and this i proved before , in answer to john horwood ; but i shall not think my labour ill bestowed , if the lord do convince any one of you of your error in this doctrine of justification : and now i come to a second lie. the second lie is ; that our ministers if any be wounded , and cries out because of the burden of sin , and be sick , and broken , and trembles at the word of the lord. such they cry out is deceived , and mocketh at them . i wonder with what face any man can affirm such such a lie ? for our ministers do labour by their preaching to bring people to a sight and sence of their sins , that they may feel sin to be a burden unto them . when they see or hear any of you quakers fall into your quaking fits , they may say you are decieved and do pity them , but not mock them as you falsly accuse them . a third lie is , that our ministers have no maintenance , but what is compellled from the people , by the law and the magistrate , to pay them tithes and other things , and if , the magistrates hold their hands , from causing people to pay them tithes , by their orders and writs , they must either beg or work ; or a worse thing , for a lively hood , or else perish ; so little love is there in the hearts of their own people towards them . for because of their wickednesse , god hath left them , and all honest true hearted people hath left them , therefore what a condition are the teachers in , who deserves not the love of men , because of their cruel heartednesse towards them ? and they deserve not the love of god , because they are so wicked against him , and concludeth , i might yet more fully describe and declare , wherein they do exceed the deceivers and false prophets of old . but of this , according as the lord moves and leadeth . for answer to this bundle of lies , for here are many lies together , and of these he saith , you shall have more as the lord moves and leadeth . which i understand to be the great lord beelzebub , that leadeth unto all lies , for surely the divel did help to invent all these lies . for that they are lies , i shall plainly prove , by what i know by my own experience , and i question not , but that the experience of many thousands , knoweth they are lies . now , to prove that these are lies , by what i know by experience , for i have lived in london and middlesex many years , and have well observed the carriage and dealing , both of ministers towards their people , and people towards their ministers or teachers , and by what i have observed , i know these things to be lies . for that many ministers are maintained by the voluntary love and affections of their people , and not by the magistrates or the laws compelling them . i know not only by what i have heard , by inquiring of neighbour parishes both in middlesex , and surrey , and london , but by what i know by experience . for i have for many years recieved the ministers maintenance , in the parish where i live , and i never received any mony , or any tithes by compulsion , by the law and by the magistrates orders , but did only receive what the people were willing to give , and many have given more shillings to the minister , then of due i could demand pence . and never demanded mony , or any thing else of poor people , thought by right of law , many of them ought to have payed to the minister . but the minister hath said , i had rather give to the poor then take any thing from them ; and when poor people have told him they were not able to pay him , he hath said , i will then give it you , and hath given them mony besides , and he never demanded any maintenance from any anabaptist , or quaker , or any other sectary , that refused to pay their dues . and i have spoken with several men , that have received the ministers dues both in london , middlesex and surrey , and they have affirmed the same , and is not this quaker a liar to affirm the contrary ? but they measure others corn by their own bushel . for because they will not pay the ministers their dues , but by the law and the magistrates orders , therefore they conclude that all men are as unjust as themselves ; i confesse , if all people in our parish , and all other parishes , were anabaptists and quakers , then the ministers should have no maintenance but by the law and the magistrates , and if there was not a law to compel the payment of the ministers dues , they must work or beg for a livelyhood , or starve , so little charity there is in the quakers , and other sectaries , as e. b. confesseth . but the papists , have more honesty and conscience then these , for they will pay the ministers their dues , without compelling them by the law. and whereas the quakers say , if there were no law , to compel people and magistrates to aid and assist them , they must work or beg , or do worse , or starve ; i say this is most false , for hath not the lord , in times of persecutions , when the laws and magistrates were against the ministers , provided maintenance for them without working or begging , or worse , and is not god the same ? you quakers will find , you will be disappointed of your expectations , for if you should prevail with the men , in present power , to take away all the laws , for ministers maintenance , which god forbid : yet god will find a way , to maintain them without working , or begging , i mean , working with their hands , for their labour or work , is greater then any of your quakers , teachers , who run idely about the countries , and take meat and drink for nothing , i , for worse then naught , for telling lies . but the quakersaith , how can they then be maintained , seeing their own peoples love and hearts , is gone from them , and god hath left them , and all honest true hearted people hath left them , because of their wickednesse , and they deserve not the love of god nor man. i confesse , if these things were true , then were our ministers in a sad condition . but i wonder with what brazen face , this man can write such lies , and cause them to be printed , for that they are lies , by what i have written before , of the peoples voluntarily maintaining the ministers , may be sufficient proof . but i shall add something more , for to prove that our ministers , people of their own parish , all that are honest and godly , do love them , and their hearts are towards them . i shall instance in one particular , in the parish where i live , the vicarage house belonging to the minister , was like to fall , and there is no law to compel the people either to repair , or new-build the ministers house , for by the law , the ministers are to repair their vicarage or parsonage houses . but such was the love of the honest hearted men in the said parish , that they did in love to their minister , pull down the old house , and build a new one , which did cost them neer three hundred pound ; and if these people had not loved the minister , i the ministry , would they have voluntarily given so much mony to build the ministers house ? i know they that did do it , desire not to have a trumpet sounded of their good works . but i may say for my defence herein , as the apostle said , i am become a fool in glorying , ye have compelled me to glory ; and boast of the love and affections of our people to their ministers ; i beleive none of you quakers can boast of such love to your teachers . but i shall tell you who they are in all parishes that love not the minister , and that is the profane rude people love not their minister , because they reprove them for their sins , and the papists love them not , because they are the greatest enemies to their religion ; and you quakers joyn with these and love them not , because they would perswade you that you are seduced and drunk with error , because they tell you the truth you are become their enemies , i greater enemies then any of the former mentioned , and are not you a most proud censorious generation , that dare say , that all honest true hearted people have left our ministers ; for do you not thereby plainly declare , that you count none honest , but quakers , papists , anabaptists , and other sectaries , for none but such have left our ministers , unless it be some atheists and rantars , which sprang up from amongst your selves . but you say , our ministers deserve not the love of god , because they are so wicked ; but it implyeth that you are so godly and perfect , that you deserve the love of god. i can easily discern how you are jesuit ridden ; for you learned this doctrine of deserving or meriting gods love from them , for they were the first founders thereof . our ministers will confess they doe not deserve gods love , but will confess that they deserve gods wrath , and say with the apostle paul , god commendeth his love towards us , in that while we were yet sinners , christ died for us , much more then being now justified by his blood , we shall be saved from wrath , ( through him , and not through our merits ) for if when we were enemies we were reconciled to god , by the death of his son , not by our merits . also the apostle john saith , herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , before we loved him ; we love him , because he first loved us . but you are so grounded in the old leven of pharisaical righteousnesse , and the old popish doctrine of merit , that it is a very hard matter to beat you off . but what is that great wickedness , that our ministers deserve the hatred both of god and man , and no love ? why , you tell many strange stories in your book , but they are all lies : you say that our teachers cries peace unto all that put into their mouths , though people be never so ungodly ; but if they put not into their mouth they , prepare war against them , by suing them at the law , and castin them into prison ; if they deny to pay tithes or money , and prepare open war against them , by destraining their goods , and taking treble damages ; and in page . if a poor woman have but ten eggs in all the world they will have one , or but ten chickins they will have one , or but a fire in their house they will have a penny for the smoke , and such like woolvish destroying wayes : and these he saith , westmerland and cumberland can witness . you doe well to tell us that these witnesses are a great way off , for you think people will rather believe your lies , then go so far to disprove them . for my part i shall never believe them , for i know and have proved the contrary here about , and i never heard of a tenth egg , nor tenth chickin , nor a penny for the smoak ; if any such custome be in any place , i doe not believe any minister will take these of poor people , however they should take the smoak for the penny , rather then give a penny for smoak . but suppose that in these parts where the quakers first sprang up and grew so numerous and insolent , they did abuse both the ministers and the magistrates , not onely by detaining the ministers dues from them , but by disturbing them in the exercise of their ministery : and of this i have heard several relations , upon which the ministers for their own quiet were forced to complain to the magistrates , and when they have been brought before them , they have abused them , upon which severall have been sent to prison and i think justly . but that any ministers committed any to prison , for not paying tithes , that i deny , and say it is a false lie : for suppose that some quakers in those countries or other countries , would not pay the ministers their dues , and these quakers have been sued , and the jewry according to law hath given their verdiet for payment of so much mony , and they refuse to pay , but will rather go to prison then pay their dues ; they put themselves in prison to save their money , for neither the minister nor the law could put them into prison if they would pay their dues ; and that tithes are the ministers due , i have already proved ; and suppose they were not due of divine right , yet being due by a civil right in regard of the laws and customs of the nations . i say , they have as good right to them , as any man hath to any house or land , or money ; and if you plead it is against your conscience to pay tithes , as you do say ; i say , suppose you should say it is against your conscience to pay any money you borrow , as i hear some of you have done , being asked for money lent , have answered , what conscience have you to ask me money , seeing christ saith , give to him that asketh ; if you should be sued and would not pay , might not you justly be cast into prison , and no sin in him that seeketh his own , and i say the case is the same , and christ by his example never taught you to deny payment of tribute , for when they demanded tribute of christ , though ( saith he ) the children be free , yet lest we should offend them , go and take the money out of the mouth of the fish and give them for me and thee , because it was a law and a custome , christ would not offend them . and by this you see all your great clamours and accusations against our ministers are proved to be meer lies and slanders : with which i shall conclude that you quakers are not perfect , because you do publish so many lies . i have proved ten several particulars against you , all of which shall be witnesse against you , that you are not the perfect holy innocent lambs of christ , as you call your selves ; but you may all confess as it is in our english liturgy , we have left undone those things that we ought to have done , and we have done those things that we ought not to have done , and there is no truth in us ; and pray , as christ in that perfect form of prayer , and forgive us our trespasses , though some have said , they thank god they have forgotten that prayer . and may not we say so of you , as agur said , there is a generation that are pure in their own eyes , and yet are not washed from their filthiness . but i know your objection , by what i have heard from you in disputing with you , and that is , that what i speak is not from the spirit , but from flesh , and from the letter that i have read in other mens books or lines ; with which you think to wipe off all , that i have said or written . for answer to which , i desire you to consider and examine , what i have written by the rule of the scripture , and if it be not according to that rule , or what ever part , is not according to that rule , i shall confesse it is from the flesh ; neither do i pretend to an infallible spirit , so as that i cannot erre as you do ; and i desire you to examine your own by that rule , and let that be the judge between us , according to the prophet isaiah his exhortation ; to the law and to the testimony , if they speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them . where mind , that the law and the testimony is called this word , and those that speak not according to this word , there is no light in them , if no light in them , then no christ in them . now , you say , all men have the light of christ in them . i say they have not , because the scriptures say , if they speak not according to this word , it is because their is no light in them . so that all men have not the light in them . but seeing you say , all men have the light of christ in them , i may say then , i have the light in me , as well as you , and why may not , or why doth not , the light inlighten me to speak or write the truth , as well as it teacheth you . this i do declare to you , and all that shall read these lines , that what i have here written , is according to that light within me , and i hope from christ the true light . for i beleive there are false lights , with which many are decieved , as there are false fires , that leadeth people about in dark nights into bogs and water . and i beleive , that what you write and speak , is according to the light within you . but i fear it is a false light , that hath led you into many dirty errors . it is your own phrase , wherefore let what you have written , and what i have written , be layed to the line , the law and the testimony , and let that be the judge between us , whether the light in me be the light of christ , or whether the light in you be the light of christ . try the spirits whether they be of god , for many false prophets , or spirits , are gone out into the world. the apostle sheweth how to know such spirits as are of god , and such as are of antichrist . every spirit that confesseth that jesus christ , is come in the flesh , is of god. and every spirit that confesseth not , that jesus christ is come in the flesh , is not of god , and this is that spirit of antichrist . now , let us examine who they are , that deny that christ is come in the flesh . i say , you are they , and what i say i shall prove , for whomsoever doth deny the end of christs coming in the flesh , doth deny his coming in the flesh . but you do deny the end of christs coming in the flesh . therefore you do deny his coming in the flesh . for when the apostle doth write of such as deny christs coming in the flesh , he doth not mean the jews , or other heathens , which denyed that christ was come ; but of such as did confesse that christ was born of the virgin mary , and yet did deny he was come in the flesh , because they denyed the end of his coming in the flesh : now , that the apostle doth speak of such , is plain ; for the apostle saith ; now are there many antichrists . they went out from us , but they were not of us , even as you went out from us : and the apostle paul saith , antichrist sitteth in the temple of god. now , the thing that i am to prove is , that you do deny the end of christs coming in the flesh ; and to that end i shall first shew what was the end of christs coming in the flesh . the apostle paul to the romans , saith , through the redemption that is in christ jesus . whom god hath set forth ▪ ( or sent ) to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare their righteousness for the remission of sins . to declare i say at this time his righteousness , that he might be just , and the justifier of them which beleive in jesus . where the apostle sheweth , that the end of god his sending jesus christ , was that he might be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare christ his righteousnesse , for the remission of sins , that he might be just , and the justifier of all them , that beleive in jesus . now you deny this , for e. b. saith that our ministers tell people a lie , and why , they tell him that christ is his righteousnesse to justifie him , which he denyeth , for you teach that christ did come to send a light into every man , and by hearkning and obeying that light , he shall be saved , which is the old popish antichristian doctrine . also the apostle to the hebrews saith to christ , loe , i come ( in the volume of the book it is written of me ) to do thy will o god. by the which will we are sanctified , through the offering of the body of jesus christ once for all . for by one offering , he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified having therefore , bretheren , boldnesse , to enter into the holiest by the blood of jesus . by a new and living way , which he hath consecrated for us through the vail , that is , his flesh by which words it is plain , that the end of christs coming in the flesh , was to do the will of god , by the which will we are sanctified , through the offering of the body of jesus christ once for all . and by that one offering , he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified . but you deny that we are sanctified and perfected for ever , by christ his doing the will of god , and through the offering of his body once for all ; and that we have boldnesse , to enter into the holyest by the blood of jesus , a new and living way , which he hath consecrated for us through his flesh . but you teach that you are sanctified and perfected by hearkning to a light within you , and obeying the same , by which you deny the end of christs coming in the flesh , and are of the spirit of antichrist . also you do some of you deny , that christ rose from the dead with his body , but his spirit rose , and deny that he ascended into heaven with a body , and there remaineth with a body ; by which you deny the scripture , and deny christ 〈◊〉 mediatorship : for the apostle saith , there is one god , and one mediator between god and men , ( mind ) the man christ jesus : now if christ have no body , how is he a man ? do not you make christ a monster , if he be a man without a body , what a mediator do ye make ? and great is the mystery of godliness , god was manifest in the flesh , received up into glory ; according to that scripture in the acts , ye men of galilee , why stand ye gazing up into heaven ? this same jesus which is taken up from you into heaven , shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven ; and that he shall so come , christ himself hath declared ; and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory . now those that deny these articles of our faith , are not they of the spirit of antichrist , for they do invent a fantastical christ in their brains ? but you say , you have a christ within you , and by that christ within you , you shall be saved . christ in you the hope of glory . to which i answer , that i deny , that you or any man have a christ within you ; you cannot have the body of christ within you , because the heaven must contain it untill his second coming , unless you be of the papists opinion , that say they receive christs body into their mouths , and then must christ have many bodies , or his body must be torn into many pieces . wherefore , that i may , if it may please god , shew you your ignorance even in this particular ; i shall shew you how i do believe christ is in every true christian , and that is by his spirit . these things have spoken unto you , being yet present with you ; but the comforter , which is the holy ghost , whom the father will send in my name . but now i go my way to him that sent me , and it is expedient for you that i go away . for if i go not away , the comforter will not come unto you , but if i depart , i will send him unto you . by which christ sheweth , that he must depart and go to the father , and that he must there abide . but his father should send that comforter his spirit , which should abide in them . but how doth christ by his spirit abide in a christian ? answ . not essentially , as the familists hold and aver to many quakers ; but operatively , by the operation and working of the same , because ye are sons , god hath sent the spirit of his son into your hearts , whereby you cry abba father . in whom after ye believed , ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise , which is the earnest of our inheritance , to be strengthned by his spirit in the inner man , that christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. by which scriptures , and many more , we may see how christ is in us by his spirit of adoption , by his spirit sealing the promises of the gospel , by strengthning us in the inner man , and christ dwelleth in our hearts by faith ; and as christ is said to be in us by his spirit , and by faith , so we are said to be in christ , and to dwell in christ , which is by faith . if any man be in christ , for ye are all one in christ , but of him ye are in christ jesus . that we may present every one perfect in christ jesus . and that prayer of christ , that they all may be one as thou father art in me , and i in thee , that they all may be one in us , i in them , and thou in me , that they may he made perfect in one . and as christ is said to be in us by his spirit , and by faith , and we are said to be in him by faith , and by the spirit , because the same spirit that dwells in christ , doth act and work in us . so also we are said to be in christ by love , and christ to be in us by love , as christ teacheth , that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them , and i in them , and we have known and beleived the love that god hath to us ; god is love , and he that dwelleth in love , dwelleth in god , and god in him . and that i may make it more plain , i will set this forth by a similitude . we know that the sun doth shine , and give light and heat by its beams or operation , and we do say , the sun shineth into such a house or room , and the sun doth warm such a place and such a creature . now , the body of the sun remaineth in the firmament , but its beams , and light , and heat , are in several places here below . so in like manner christ , his body is in heaven , but he sendeth abroad his light and heat , several operations and workings of his spirit , in the hearts of his people ; and this metaphor of the sun is often used in scripture , wherefore i shall alleadge some of those scriptures , because they do fitly serve to illustrate this truth . the prophet malachy prophesieth of christ , saying , but unto you that fear my name , shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings . and as it is the property of the sun to give light and warmth or heat , and to expel mists and fogs that do infect the air , and to compleat and enliven things that seem to be dead in the winter , so is christ to his church and people here on earth , though he be in heaven , he is the light of his church , as the prophet isaiah saith , arise shine for thy light is come , and the glory of the lord is risen upon thee . and the gentiles shall come to thy light , and kings to the brightness of thy rising . and this sun of righteousnesse is said to expel the of his people , as a thick cloud is expelled by the sun. and the lord is said to be a sun to his people , that is , in christ , for out of christ he , is a consuming fire . object . but you say that christ doth enlighten every man as the sun giveth light to all , and by hearkning too , and obeying that light , all may be saved . i have answered this before , but for a farther answer . answ . that i confesse christ doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world in some sense , for as the sun in the heaven doth give light and heat unto all , so doth christ as the creator give a common light of nature . he maketh his sun so shine or rise upon the evil and the good . all that common light of knowledge and understanding that wicked men have , and all outward blessings come from christ ; in him , saith the apostle , we live move , and have our being : but that christ doth give a spiritual light of grace unto all that are born , that i deny . for we are all born blind and dark , in regard of spiritual light , so saith the apostle , ye were once darkness , and st. john saith , that the light shineth in darkness , and the darkness comprehended it not ; as the sun shining on a man that is born blind , he receiveth no light from the sun ; and every man that hath this spiritual light , hath it , or receiveth it from god , in and through christ , as the apostle paul saith , for god who commanded light to shine out of darkness , hath shined in our hearts , to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of god , in the face of jesus christ . this light is a free gift , and we were not born with it . if we were , what need christ have dyed for our sins ? or what use is there of his intercession , if all men have a light within them , by hearkning to which , and obeying it , they may be saved ? i have taken this by the way , because it is one of your cheif grounds , upon which you build your religion . but it is a sandy one , that hath no foundation on christ or the scriptures . for you do not make the scriptures to be the rule of your faith and practise , but some revelations or impulse of spirit . and therefore you object against what is spoken or written , by reading or study , or reading other mens works , which is the last of your objections , that i know of , with answering of which i shall conclude . for answer , i say , that your slighting of reading and studying the scripture , and reading of the writings of godly ministers and others , that have written on them , is a chief cause of all your errors . for christ exhorteth all to search the scriptures , and that cannot be without reading them . and the apostle paul exhorteth timothy to give attendance to reading , and to meditate upon these things and give thy self wholly to them . surely paul knew timothy was no quaker , for some of you quakers have said , that they may not read the scriptures . but the apostle commendeth timothy , that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures , which are able to make thee wise unto salvation . if he had not been a reader of scriptures , he had not known them , for although many read the scriptures , that never knew the will and mind of god revealed in them ; yet ordinarily none knoweth the scripture , but those that have read them , or heard them read or preached upon ▪ and as faith cometh by hearing , so by reading some have been converted , if we may believe their own testimony in history ; which bringeth me to the second part of your objection , the reading of other mens books or writings : to which i say , that the apostle paul , though a man indued with extraordinary gifts of revelations , yet he did read other mens books or writings , as you may see by his writing to timothy , when thou comest , bring with thee the books , but especially the parchments . now if the apostle did not read them , what need he to have sent for them ; but that the apostle did read other books , besides the scripture , is plain , for the apostle writeth of jannes and jambres withstanding moses , and he must read it in some other book or writing then the scripture , for there is no such thing there . also the apostle to titus doth alledge what one of the cretians own prophets said , which he had read in some of their books ; and the apostle jude saith , that michael the arch-angel strove with the devil , and disputed about the body of moses ; and enoch also the seventh from adam prophecied of such men , saying , behold , the lord cometh with thousands of his angels . now , we read of none of these in the scripture , and therefore the apostle did read them in some other books or writings , and will you say the apostles did not bost in other mens lines , as you say of us ? surely if the apostles made use of other mens writings , much more may we : and to what end hath god given gifts unto men , if they may not improve them by writing ; for sometimes they have not opportunitie to exercise them otherwise , unless you would have them hide their talents ; and to what end doe you quakers write so many books , and spread them abroad , if the reading of other books beside the scriptures be not necessary , unless you believe what some of your fellow quakers have said , that james naylors books are of as divine authority as the scriptures , because he is inspired by the same spirit the prophets and apostles were when they writ the scripture ; in which you are like your fathers the familists , for such like titles and stiles i have read in their books written by h. n. and have heard some familists call them his gospels , and that they 〈◊〉 of equal authority with the gospels of jesus 〈…〉 such blasphemous familists and quakers errors , good lord deliver us . and the lord open your eyes that you may see your errors , that you have patched up your new religion with the old errors of the papists , arminians , anabaptists , antinomians and familists , and the lord give you hearts to repent , and do your first works . a post-script . courteous reader , since the writing the foregoing answer to the quakers , i had some conference with a woman quaker , one of my ancient friends , whose name i forbear to mention about the said answer ; after which the said friend did write me a letter , the contents whereof were as followeth : that my written paper is higher then vanitie , because , as she saith , i confessed that i was not led by the infallible spirit , therefore it must needs be flesh , for the spirit of god is infallible and cannot erre , which she desireth i would consider by the light of christ that convinceth me of sin , and that lest i be found fighting against god ; wherefore she saith , in love to thy soul , i warn thee . wherefore lest the said woman , or any other quakers should say that i have not answered all their objections , i resolved to answer the said letter , though the things objected in the said letter are in part answered before ; yet for a more full answer , i desire the said friend and all other quakers , whether friends or enemies , to mind and consider what i have written in answer to the said letter . having received thy letter , i was moved to write an answer to shew thee thy error in misunderstanding and misreporting my words ; for i neither writ nor said that i was not led by the infallible spirit , but said , that i doe not pretend to an infallible spirit so as that i cannot erre ; for i say that all the faithfull are led by the spirit of christ , which spirit is infallible ; but i say they are not so led by that spirit that they cannot erre , which is the thing you maintain , but i deny ; and yet i say , that all the prophets and apostles were led by the spirit infallibly guiding them in writing the scriptures , so as that they could not erre , and that all the faithful are led by the spirit , so as that they erre not in the foundation or fundamentals of religion : but in other things i say they are subject to erre , and the best men that ever lived that that we read of in scripture have erred ; christ jesus who was god and man excepted , and this i shall plainly prove by scripture ; the prophet david , a man after gods own heart , and a penman of holy scripture , said , lord who knoweth the errors of his life , clense me from my secret sins , psal . . . and he having a mind to build the temple , and spake his mind to the prophet nathan , the prophet said to the king , go do all that is in thine heart , for the lord is with thee ; they being both prophets were both mistaken , they were not infallible , for that night the word of the lord came to nathan to the contrary , that david should not build the lords house , but his son solomon ; but you quakers will say , this was before christ his coming in the flesh , and before the fulness of the spirit was sent , wherefore mind what is written in scripture after that time . there arose a dissention and a disputation among the brethren about circumcision , and paul and barnabas with others were sent to jerusalem to the apostles and elders to have their advice , and there were great disputations between them about it , no one pretending by an infallible spirit to determine the same ; were not paul and barnabas led by an infallible spirit , what need they then to have gone to jerusalem to the rest of the apostles and elders ? surely if they had been infallible , they made a needless journey , and the rest of the apostles and elders made a needless disputation . also there arose a doubt amongst the corinthians , about believing husbands having unbelieving wives , and believing wives having unbelieving husbands , and other things concerning which they wrote unto the apostle paul to determine the matter . was there never a man among them that had an infallible spirit , so as that he could not erre ? surely then they were no quakers , for then they needed not to have sent to the apostle to have the matter determined ; and the apostle in his answer concerning some thing , saith , i speak this by permission , and not by command ; and concerning virgins i have no commandment from the lord , yet i give my judgement . i suppose , saith the apostle ; but had he been a quaker , and of your opinion , would he not have said , why , or what need you write unto me to know the lawfulness of these things , are you not all led by an infallible spirit that cannot erre ? but the apostle was so humble and modest , that he said , i suppose , he would not say , i am sure , or i know certainly , i having an infallible spirit i cannot erre . no , the apostle confesseth of himself and others , we know but in part . but you quakers say , you have such an infallible spirit that you cannot erre ; but god resisteth the proud , and hath promised to teach the humble : also the apostle saith , if any man build upon this foundation , gold , silver , precious stones , wood , hay , stubble , where the apostle plainly proveth , that christians do sometimes build upon the foundation , wood , hay , and stubble , that is , some things of their carnal spirits , for there is some carnality in those that are in christ , for saith the apostle , i speak unto you as unto carnal , even as unto babes in christ ; now there being flesh as well as spirit , and sence and reason as well as faith in every christian , is it any wonder that they sometimes erre ? and therefore honest luther saith , that there being flesh as well as spirit , and sence as well as faith in the best men ; that therefore sometimes that will fall from their tongues , and their pens , that savours of the flesh as well as of the spirit , and of sence as well as of faith ; and therefore saith he , all christians should be like the clean beasts that chew the cud , and devide the hoofe , that is , they should meditate and examine what they hear and read by the scriptures , and devide the truth from the error , as those men of barea did , they searched the scriptures , to see whether those things which they heard , were according to the scriptures . they did not hearken to a light within them , to see whether they were true . but if you quakers had such an infallible spirit , that you cannot erre as you say you have ; then all that you speak and write musts need be truth , and then we need not examine them by the scriptures , to see , whether you write and speak the truth . but i am not of that implicit faith , to beleive what you write , without examining the same , by the scriptures ; and by them i find you have a falable lying spirit that leadeth you into error ; but seeing you say you are so infallible that you cannot erre , give me leave to examine some of your books in print . besides , what i have already examined , and proved , many gross errors in them , therefore not written by an infallible spirit , so as that you cannot erre . i shall examine some particulars in your new primer , made by george fox the younger , and some others , in which there is as many errors as pages . i shall mention some few particulars , by which we may discern what the rest are of the said primer . children , such are deceivers who tell you that the way to come to know the truth is by the scriptures . now , if this be a true doctrine , then was christ and his apostles deceivers , for they taught the same . christ exhorteth to search the scriptures , for in them ye think ye have eternal life , and they are they that testifie of me . now , if the scriptures testifie of christ , then the reading of the scriptures is a means to know the truth , unless you deny that christ is the truth if you do , he affirmeth it saying , i am the truth : it was a true saying , of a good man , that the whole scriptures are the swadling band that foulds the child jesus . also christ saith to the saduces , ye erre , not knowing the scriptures . then by consequence the way to avoyd error , and to know the truth , is by the knowledge of the scriptures , and therefore christ would have all to search the scriptures . and the apostle paul said , that timothy had known the scriptures from a child , which are able to make thee wise unto salvation , and that is , by knowing the truth . and the apostle peter saith , we have a more sure word of prophesie , whereunto you do well that ye take heed . but you are enemies to the reading the scriptures , or expounding them , pag of the said primer . children , such are no ministers of gods word , who tell you the scriptures are the word of god. now if this be an infallible truth , then i say the prophets and apostles were fallible , and were no ministers of gods word , for the prophets isaiah , jeremiah , ezekiel , and most of the small prophets , said , that the word of the lord came unto them , and they spake the word of the lord. i beleive you may find what the prophets preached called the word of the lord or god , above a hundred times : and in the . of exodus , god spake all these words , and what god spake is gods word , and what christ spake and preached , is the word of god , unlesse you deny christ to be god. also the apostle james exhorteth , be ye doers of the word , and if any be hearers of the word and not doers , &c. and do you think the apostle meaneth the word of man , or the word of god. also the apostle peter saith , we have a more sure word of prophesie , whereunto ye do well that ye take heed . and if the apostles call the scripture ; the word , surely they are gods word , and by the word of prophesie can be meant no other word . i marvel that you quakers , who pretend to an infallible spirit to know all things , do not know , that as christ is called the eternal word of god , so are the scriptures written , called the revealed will or word of god , or his word revealed . as when we write our mind , or cause another to write our will or mind to another , we are properly said to send word , or what is so written to be our word . pag. . of the said primer . that by the blood of jesus christ , cleansing you from all sin , is meant the life of christ . now i would know where you ever read in scripture , that we are cleansed from all sin by the life of christ , or whether the blood of christ were ever taken for the life of christ in scripture ? i would fain know your meaning of this dark mystical expression . whether you do believe that the blood which christ shed upon the crosse , when he suffered without the gates of jerusalem , be that blood that cleanseth from all sin . i know partly your meaning , by what i have heard from several of your company , and read in several of your books , wherefore that i may shew you what i beleive concerning the same , according to the scriptures . [ mind ] the apostle saith , without shadding of blood is no remission . and he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself , and in the body of his flesh , through death to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight . and having made peace by the blood of his crosse . but i fear you are strangers to this blood of christ , and it is a mystery hid from your eyes , who pretend to know all mysteries , but they are mysteries of iniquity , while you count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing . and as you are strangers to this blood of christ that cleanseth from all sin , so i fear you are ignorant of the life of christ . for i would know , whether by the life of christ , you mean the life that christ lived in the dayes of his converse on earth , from the time of his birth , to the time of his suffering death on the crosse , or the life he now liveth in heaven ; or whether by the life of christ you do not understand the life of a leigned christ in you , or a life imitating christ his life . i know by what i have heard from the mouths of several , and read in several of your books , that you are strangers , to the true life of christ mentioned in scripture , and is a mystery hid from your eyes . but [ mind ] what the scriptures saith , for if when we were enemies , we were reconciled to god , by the death of his son , much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life . wherefore he is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto god by him , seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them . by which texts of scripture you may see , that we are justified or saved by christ his life living now in heaven , to make intercession for us . but i never did read in the scripture that our sins are washed away , and that we are saved by what christ wrought in us , nor by imitating the life of christ ; and yet i say , that all those who are saved by the blood and the life of christ , have faith wrought in their hearts by the spirit of christ , whereby they beleive this blood of christ shed for them , and that christ now liveth in heaven to make intercession for them , and this faith is not a dead idle faith , but a lively working faith , working love to god and man. faith worketh by love. but this faith doth not save , as it is an act or work in us , but as it apprehendeth and layeth hold on christ the object . and what ever infallible knowledge you pretend unto , without the knowledge of this you are in ignorance , and know nothing as your ought . but the devil hath beguiled you , as he did adam and eve , when he made them beleive they should be as gods , knowing good and evil , but they became like the devil by sin . and as the devil hath deceived you , so hath the pope your grandfather deceived you , by sending his iesuits and friers here to seduce and delude you , as mr. william prynne that patron and defender of his countries laws and liberties hath plainly proved , in his book called the quakers unmasked ; in which he proveth that several friers of the franciscan order , have been chief speakers in your metings , as coppinger and others . and i know none but the pope and his church , and you quakers that do pretend to an unerring infallible spirit , and i know none that hold and maintain more errors then the pope and you quakers , whom i conceive are made drunk with popish errors , for all your pretending to an infallible spirit , that cannot erre by an inward light . what i have here written is by the light within me , which you advise me to consider and hearken unto , because it convinceth of sin . concerning which , we had some discourse , when i affirmed , that the law in the heart doth convince man of sin in the estate of nature , according to the apostle paul his words . the gentiles which have not the law , do by nature the things contained in the law , which shew the work of the law written in their hearts , their conscience also bearing witness , and their thoughts the mean while else accusing or excusing one another . also those that accused the woman taken in adultery ; christ said , he that is without sin cast the first stone , and they that heard it being convicted in their own conscience , went out one by one , the law in the conscience convicted them of sin . and as the law in the heart convinceth men of gross sins , though they never had the law written . so doth the law written , convince of lesser and smaller sins . as the apostle paul saith , i had not known sin but by the law , and that he meaneth the moral law , is plain , for saith he , i had not known lust , except the law had said thou shalt not lust . also the apostle writing to the corinthians , to reform the evil custome of men wearing long hair , saith , doth not nature it self teach you , that it is a shame for a man to wear long hair . and if it had not been sin , they had no cause to be ashamed , and the apostle saith , that nature doth teach it to be a shame . but i see some quakers that are not ashamed to wear long hair ; for i have observed some of those men quakers wear longer hair then ordinarily ruffins or roysters wear , and in stead of shame , do defend and maintain the same to be lawful . but i shall not beleive them for all their pretended infallible spirit but rather think they are such as christ spake of , whose light is darknesse , if therefore the light that is in thee be darkness , how great is that darknesse ? & like those locusts that came out of the smoak of the bottomless pit , who are said to have hair as the hair of women . but this by the way but you objected then , that christ saith , the spirit will reprove the world of sin . to which i answer , that christ and the apostle doth not contradict one another ; i shall shew how they agree , the law in the conscience convinceth them of sin , by discovering what is sin , as the apostle expoundeth . i had not known lust , except the law had said thou shalt not lust . rom. . . but the spirit reproveth for sin , by shewing or discovering sin to rest upon the conscience , by reason of unbelief , as christ expoundeth the meaning of sin , because they believe not in me , that is , the spirit shall convict by their own conscience , that because they believe not in him , there is nothing but sin , for because of unbeleif sin resteth on the conscience , and by beleiving in christ only , sin is abolished and taken away . wherefore luther saith , if the whole world did believe in christ , god would see nothing but a meer cleansing ; according to that of the prophet david , thou hast forgiven the iniquitie of thy people , and covered all their sins . selah . psal . . . this have written in love to thy soul , and the rest of your profession , to undeceive thee and others , who are lead by a fallible erring spirit . ye erre not knowing the scriptures . i desire you to examine what i have written by the scriptures , and let them be the judge between us . whether those that are lead by the spirit are not subject to erre , though the spirit of god is infallible and cannot erre , yet the man that hath the spirit is fallible , and doth erre ; and so i commit you , and what i have written , to the blessing of almighty god , and remain a friend and lover of thy soul. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e . answ . acts . , . . act ▪ , , . act. . . titus . . tim. . . tim. . tim. . . tim. . . cor. . . rom. . , . heb. . . & . . numb . . , , . numb , matth. . , . acts . . tim. . . cor. . . act. . . tim. . . ● pet. . , . act . , . fox the quaker . tim. . , , , . tim. . . rom. . , . cor. . , , , , . thes . ▪ . tit. . , , . tit. . , . cor. . . math. , . act. . . act. . , , . cor. . ▪ , , , , , . cor. . , . cor. ▪ . gal. . . luther on gal. . ver . . fol. . tim. . ▪ . tim. . . 〈◊〉 . . , , . matth. ▪ . see sir henry spelman cancil . anno . object . answ . mal. . ezek. . . esa . . ● , . zeph. . , . object . answ . object . answ . cor. . . cor. . , , , . acts . . [ minde ] tim . . cor. . . ephes . . . colos . . . act ▪ , . rom. . , , . cor. , , , , . heb. . . cor. . , . levit. . . , . [ minde ] esa . . , , . dan. . , , . zach. . , . joh. . . colos . . , . colos . . , . colos . . . heb. . ephes . . , , . numb . . . mal. . . exod. . , . esa . . , ▪ jer. . . jer . . esa . . . & . . mica . . joh. . . joh. . , , . colos . . . joh. . . rev. . . exod. . . psal . , , . zach. . , , . isa . . . matth. . . cor. . . rom. . , . rom. . , . matth. . , . rev. . , . rev . . rom. . . matth. . . rom. . . rom. . , , . phil. . . burrowes his book . phil. . . matth. , . rom. . , , . pe. . , . cor. . . gal. . . acts . , , . james . . james . . joh. . , , . joh. . , . rom. . , . heb. . . esa . . . phil. . , ▪ , . exod. . , , . psal . . . revel . . ● , ● joh. . ● . joh. . b●rrows the quaker . neh. . . rev. . . gal. . . cor. . . rom. . , , , , , , , . cor. . . rev. . , , , . fol. . fol. . luther on gal. . . fol. . luther was a true prophet for what he foretold , germany , and england have found most true . rom. . . rom. . , , . matth. . . tit. . , . matth. . . heb. . , . gen. . . matth. . . james . . . matth. . . titus . . psal . . , . john . . joh. . . matth. . . luk. . , . cor. . . thes . . . a better hangman then a butcher . gen. . . cor. . . gal. . . cor. . , . rom. . , . [ minde ] matth. . , , , , , , . john . , . act. . , , . act. . , . gal. . . gal. . , . gal. . . matth. . . matth. . , , , , . joh. . . rom. . . job . . job . . job . , . object . answ . phil. . , , . phil. . . ephes . . , . tim. . . tim. . . heb. . . cor. . , , . object . joh. . . answ . rom. . , . john . . rom. . , . tit. . , , . cor. . , , , , . the seventh ground answered . pet. . , . sam. . . esa . . , , , . esa . . . matth. . , . cor. . , , . cor. . , . cor. . , , , . cor. . . cor. . . gal. . . & . . & . . thes . . . thes . . . thes . . , , , . rev. . , . rev. . . rev. . . rev. . , . cor. . , , , . or is not rash . his words are , the apostles church was most perfect , and was not to be made perfect , by the inventions of them that come after . let the old customes hold : behold , whatsoever is first that is ●rue , and whatsoever is later that is false . chap. . pag. . there was , saith he , a godly discipline , did not tolerate men in any sort living wickedly . chap. . pag. . which discipline ought to be in every church . gen. . , , , . pet. . , . heb. . , , . matth. . . matth. . , , , . matth. . . pet. . . matth. . . matth. . . math. . , , . acts . . act. . , , , , , . gen. . . rom. . . pet. . , . ● joh. . , . kings . , , , , . josh . . , . exod. . , , . matth. . . matth. . , . calvins instit . chap. . sect. . ephes . . , , . read those annotations in the bible , the geneva print . which e b. i conceive to be edward ●urrowes ; the book was given me by one be●ch a quaker . e. b. pag . th ground . and to shew you what were , and are the grounds & reasons , that kept me from turning to the anabaptists , and i hope shall ever keep me , though often assaulted by them . gen. . . gal. . . rom. . . 〈…〉 matth. . . acts . , . cor. . . matth. . . revel . . . matth. . . joh. . . matth. . , . ●●b . , ● . [ minde ] ● pet. . . ●● . ●● . object . answ . cor. . . act. . . matth. . , , . joh. . . matth. . . coloss . . . rom. . ● . ephes . . . baptism . exod. . . cor. . , . cor. . , . micah . . , . matth. . . pag. sect. ● . chap. . the nature of episcopacy . sect. . c. . p. , , . surely this honourable person was not of our new state-mens opinion . their reviling against ministers and magistrates , their denying to take an oath before a magistrate . i wish that we had not too much experience of the anabaptists practising the same things here in england , for have they not been the chief instrumen●s of destroying k. and parliaments , the freedome and liberty of the people after they had gotten the sword into their hands . luk. . , cor. . . cor. . . act. . , . thess . . , . cor. . , . cor. . , , , . cor. . . you have abused . last vers . matth. . . act. . . ephes . . , coloss . . . cor. . , . rev. . . object . psal . , , , , . psal . . . and hymnes is the general title for the whole book of psalms , though it be translated the book of psalms of david and asaph , as mr. john cotton teacher of the church of boston in new england , sheweth in his book called singing of psalms , a gospel ordinance , who knew the original tongue better than you quakers , which mr. cotton left his living at boston , and left his native country old england , and went to new england , because he could not in conscience conform to the bishops ceremonies , therefore no popish author . . answ . some make no difference between david king , and david a king and a prophet , but say he was a lay man. . answ . object . answ . gal. . , , , , , . object . . answ . . answ . mr. cotton , ch . . pag. . . answ . james . . psalm . . psalm . , . psalm . . psal . . , . psal . . . psalm . , , , , , , . je● . . . jona . . , . jona . . , , ▪ king. . , , . mark . , . . answ . . answ . . answ . . answ . master cotton singing of psalmes , a gospel ordinance , cap. . page , , , , , , . some quakers call ministers ballad-singers , in contempt of singing psalms ▪ sarah blakbury . cor. . , . tim. . , . cor. . , , , . tim. . , , , , . . cor. . . f●rnworths mystery opened of women speaking in the church . pag. . , . act. . , , . tim. . . luk. . ▪ luk. . , , . luk. ● . , ▪ , . acts . , , . romans . , . tim. . , . eph. . , . tim. . , , , . tim. . . pet. . , , . titus . . joh. . to persons of honour in cheeswick . act. . , , . . acts . , , . fear god and honour the king . gal. . . . shalt honour god. we must distinguish between divine honour and civil honour . object . . christ saith be not called master . answ . christ also saith call no man your father upon the earth matth. . . and ministers are called master of assemblies . eccles . . . . particular . math. . , , . rom. . . cor. . . rom. . , , , . rom. . . joh. . . rev. . , . . particular . tomlinson his loyal word of reproof to the priests or ministers pag. . , , , , . pet. . . thess . . . jam. . . jud. ▪ . jud ▪ ●● ▪ matth. . . . particular . matth. . . . matth. ▪ , , , . heb. . . jude . ▪ . tomlinson , in a book called a word of reproof to the priests , page . line . . particular . in which he confesseth that he was possest with the devil . quakers shaken , page ● . luke . . the said john gilpin saith that his quaking and tremling was of the devil . gal. . . thess . . , , , , . dan. . . sam. . . dut. . ▪ psal . ▪ . object . answ . rom. . . acts . . acts . , ▪ john . . isai . . . matth. . . isai . . . isai . . . isai . . , . isai . . , , . psal . . . luke . , ▪ luke . , ▪ luke . ● . rom. . . phil. . , . phil. . . thess . . . thes . . . prov. . . gen. . , . rom. . , , , , , . joh. . . . john . , , . rom. . . some quakers reported , that i caused the boyes to put benjamin wallis into the thames , when he came to bring john horwoods letter to me , which is a lie , for i was not at home , and did not see him . and at hammersmith , one of them was put in the cage , and sent to prison : none of them were so used at cheeswick . one beech. e. b. his book a just & lawful trial of the teachers and ministers . p. . rom. . ● , . rom. . . rom. . . joh. . , . joh. . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . . rom. . , . titus . . . cor . . gal ▪ , . . joh. . . joh. . . luk. . . e. b. his trial 〈◊〉 . e. b. his trial p. , , . i do it not by hearsay , & out of malice . cor. . . rom. . , , , . joh. . , . e. b. his trial pag. . prov. . . ●sai . . . isa . . . joh. . , , . joh. . , . thes . . . rom. . , , , . e. b. his first trial p. . heb. . , , , , . tim. . . tim. . . acts . . matth. . . joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . negatively . affirmatively . gal. . . ephes . . , . ephes . . , . cor. . , ● . gal. . . cor. . . joh. . . joh. . , . joh. . . joh. . . joh. . . mal. . . isa . . . isa . . . matth. . . coloss . . . act. . . ephes . . . joh. . . cor. . . job . . . ● tim. . , . ● tim ▪ . . 〈…〉 . tim. , . titus . . jude . . notes for div a -e acts. . . , , , , , . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . . pag . joh. . . pet. . . jam. . , . pet. . . heb. . . heb. . . coloss ▪ , , . heb. . . rom. . . heb. . . ●ath . . rom. . , . joh. . , , . rom. . . matth. . . rev. . , , . joh. . . a new primmer, wherein is demonstrated the new and living way held forth by way of question and answer, as from a child's enquiry after truth, to be informed by the father. here being divers particulars answer'd, and plainly opened, that may be profitable both in this present age, and ages to come. published for the benefit of all sorts of people, and may be very serviceable for every family, and of great use for young children to learn in, so soon as they can understand their language, that they in the fear of god may be instructed, and remember their creator in the dayes of their youth. for which i travel, enduring affliction for the truths sake, william smith. smith, william, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r this 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a new primmer, wherein is demonstrated the new and living way held forth by way of question and answer, as from a child's enquiry after truth, to be informed by the father. here being divers particulars answer'd, and plainly opened, that may be profitable both in this present age, and ages to come. published for the benefit of all sorts of people, and may be very serviceable for every family, and of great use for young children to learn in, so soon as they can understand their language, that they in the fear of god may be instructed, and remember their creator in the dayes of their youth. for which i travel, enduring affliction for the truths sake, william smith. smith, william, d. . [ ], p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year, . date of publication suggested by wing. reproduction of the original at the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- early works to . christian literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john cords sampled and proofread - john cords text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a new primmer , wherein is demonstrated the new and living way ; held forth by way of question and answer , as from a child's enquiry after truth , to be informed by the father . here being divers particulars answer'd , and plainly opened , that may be profitable both in this present age , and ages to come . published for the benefit of all sorts of people , and may be very serviceable for every family , and of great use for young children to learn in , so soon as they can understand their language , that they in the fear of god may be instructed , and remember their creator in the dayes of their youth . other foundations can no man lay than that which is laid , which is jesus christ. behold , i write unto you both old and young , that you may know the truth , and that the truth may make you free . for which i travel , enduring affliction for the truths sake , william smith . printed in the year , . there is also printed a new catechism , wherein many truths are plainly opened by way of question and answer , which may be a help and furtherance unto all tender hearted people , who are breathing after the lord , and waits for redemption and salvation by jesus christ. also , something concerning the foundation and principle of the poor afflicted people of god ( called quakers ) and of their faith and love towards god , and their good will unto men , being also plainly demonstrated by way of question and answer . given forth in the labour of love , and put to view for the service of this present generation , and also generations to come . william smith . the primer or catechism may be had either bound together , or a part . to the reader . reader , when the foundation is sure , there is more encouragement to begin to build , and to begin well , and persevere in well-doing , is the way to come into peace : therefore it is needfull that thou be plainly instructed in the first principle of the pure religion , that thou therein mayest begin in the spiritual travel , and continue faithful to the end , whereby everlasting rest thou wilt come to inherit : and for the same service is this little book given forth , and the title of it bears , a new primmer , because the testimony therein is unto jesus christ , who is the first principle of the pure religion , and the new and living way unto the father , and makes all new in his life and power , as he is believed in , and received . therefore , whether thou be old or young that reads this book , keep in the fear of god , that thou mayest feel gods witness in thy own conscience opening thy understanding , and making manifest unto thee the plain and simple truth of god , which in this book is moderately enquired after , and plainly answered ; and though in many answers there be but few words spoken , yet if thou readst it with a single eye , thou wilt meet with full satisfaction in it , as to the thing that is enquired ; therefore keep simply , and ▪ read without prejudice , and truth will open to thy understanding , and thouwilt come to know christ iesus , who was , and is , and is to come , the first and last , the beginning and ending , in whom is life , and the life is the light of men . and little children , when you come to learn reading in this book ▪ be not light in your minds , but mind the fear of god , and as you read , wait to understand what you read , that you out of sin and evil , may be kept ; that whilest you are yet young , you may remember your creator , and walk as obedient children unto him , and do those things that are well pleasing in his sight , that in him you may grow and encrease in vertue and godliness , and so honour the lord in your youth , not knowing whether or no you shall come to see old age . my desire is to do you any good , and my love is both to old and young . wocester county-goal , the second month , . w. s. a new primmer the child's question . father , i have a great desire to know god that made me , and to be acquainted with his way and truth , that i might walk therein . the fathers answer . that is a good desire child , and thou art worthy to be informed , because thou enquirest so innocently , and wouldest know the thing that is good , therefore my childe be still and diligent , and i shall inform thee , and plainly shew thee how thou mayest come to know god , his way , and truth . chi. i would be so informed father . father . why child , thou must wait to know something of god in thee , which in thy own conscience he maketh manifest ; and by minding and obeying of that , thou therein wilt come to know god , his way , and truth . c. but is there something of god in my own conscience , that will give me the knowledge of him ? f. yes : and there is not any thing else that can do it . c. what is it father ? let me know it that i may not neglect it , but give diligence to it , that i may know god ? f. it is the light of christ , with which thou art enlightened , and it i● made manifest in thy conscience , an● doth there let thee see whether thou art a follower of the thing that i● good , or the thing that is evil . c. but is it the light of christ with●in me ? f. yes child , it is within thee ▪ and there thou art to wait for it . c. from whence doth it come ? f. from god the father of lights . c. and doth god freely give it unto me ? f. yes : it is his good and perfect gift unto thee , that thou therein mightest profit . c. how may i know that it is the light of christ , and that it comes from god , & is given freely of god unto me ? f. because it is pure , and joyns to no evil , but in thy own conscience testifies against it , and reproves thee for it ; whereby thou mayst certainly know that it is the pure light of christ , and comes from the pure god , and that he gives it freely unto thee to convince thee of sin , and save thee from it . c. but is that the light of christ that lets me see my sin , and in my conscience reproves me for it ? f. yes child , that is the light of christ. c. but our ministers do not so teach us . f. that is , because they are not the ministers of christ , neither can teach his way in truth . c. but how shall i know that they are not christs ministers , for i would not hear or believe any that are not his ? f. thou mayest know them , child , by their fruits . c. why ? in what do they differ from christs ministers ? f. they differ both in doctrine and practice . c. how do they differ in doctrine ? f. why , their doctrine is traditional , and they teach for doctrine the traditions of men , and so speak things they know not , for filthy lucre-sake , building upon other mens labours , and running into other mens lines for their matter , which is not after christ , neither do his ministers so . c. how do they differ in practice ? f. in many things . c. i would be informed concerning them . f. to mention them all , would take up much time . c. name a few , if the whole be too tedious , that by understanding some of them , i may be aware of the rest . f. such as are not christs ministers , have their power and authority from man , and so have each man a place of settlement , which is called a parish ; and in that parish they have tythes allowed for their maintenance , and that is the tenth part of encrease : and they have a law made by man to compel it ; and if any for conscience sake cannot give it them , then by their law they sue them , and imprison them , and spoil their goods ; and these are wolves , child , that are let loose amongst the lambs , to rend and tear them ; and they have places builded in their several parishes , which they call churches : and they observe one day in a week for their worship , and a few hours in that day to perform it ; and they have an hour-glass ( many of them ) and that is their time of preaching ; and their eye will be oft towards the glass , to see when it is run , because it is a long hour to them ; and when the glass is run , they tell their people the time is now spent , or words to that purpose and what hath been spoken , that must suffice for that time ; and this is not the practice of christs ministers . c. but where , and in whom such things do appear , may i certainly know that they are not true ministers of christ ? f. yes : thou mayest certainly know them not to be true ministers of christ , nor of his sending forth ; for such fruits do plainly demonstrate them to be false . c. but if such be false , how may i know them that are true ? for i have an earnest desire in me to know the thing that is true . f. be patient child , and in due time thou mayest come to understand it , and thou mayest know the true ministers of christ by their fruits . c. what is their fruits ? and in what do they differ from the false ? f. they differ in every particular . c. inform me of some of them . f. the true ministers of christ , have their power and authority in god , and that is their foundation ; they take no tythes , nor sue any people at law for maintenance , nor cast any into prison ; they do not love filthy lucre , neither make their belly their god ; they preach the word faithfully , and do not limit the holy one , either to time , place or person ; they are meek and gentle and peaceable towards all men ; and these are christs ministers . c. here is a great difference father . f. yes child , there is so , even as much as is betwixt that which is true , and that which is false ; or betwixt light and darkness : for the false ministers are of the earthly wisdom , and the true ministers are endued with wisdom from above . c. but do they not all preach christ in words ? f. yes , the false can speak of the name of christ ( as the true do ) but they want his power . c. but how may i then know which is true , and which is false by their words , seeing words may be the same ? f. why , they that are false , preach christ without , and bid people believe in him , as he is in heaven above ; but they that are true ministers they preach christ within , and direct people to wait to feel him in themselves , and so to believe in him , as he makes himself manifest in them ; and this is true doctrine that brings people to mind that principle of god in their own consciences , which comes down from heaven , and goes thither again ; and such as are in the earthly wisdom , they do not know heaven above . c. this is a great difference in their doctrine , for one to preach christ without , and another preacheth him within . f. yes , it doth make a great difference , and hath no more fellowship together , than the east hath with the west . c. and is this an infallible tryal of them ? f. yes , and it vvill not deceive thee , but vvill certainly give thee an understanding , vvhereby thou maist discern them both ; and if thou waitest in the measure of the light of christ , thou wilt be able to try all things , and so come to chuse that vvhich is good . c. but must i not try all things by the scriptures ? f. nay , for the scriptures vvere given forth from the spirt , and it is the spirit that tryes vvhether the things be true or false , good or evil . c. but are not the scriptures given forth for a rule to walk by ? f. the scriptures are a true testimony of vvhat the saints were made vvitnesses of ; but the spirit is the rule from which the scriptures were given forth ; and it vvas the rule unto them that gave forth the scriptures , and they had the spirit before they spake the words ; and they spake the words as the spirit moved , so that the spirit was before the words , and was their rule that spake the words , and it changes not , but is the same for ever . c. what is the service of the scriptures if they be not a rule , and for tryal af things that are spoken ? f. they are of great service , child , and are to be read and believed ; and they become comfortable , when in the same spirit that gave them forth , they are fufilled , and truly understood . c. then the scriptures are to be owned and believed , as a true testimony of what the saints were made partakers of in that day . f. yes , they are to be owned and believed , and they that do not so , they are to be denied : but thou must take heed , child , of giving more unto the scriptures than unto them belongs , least in so doing thou diminish from the glory of christ , and so give it to another . and if thou look'st upon the scripture to be for a rule , and for trying , thou givest that unto them which belongs unto christ , for he is the rule , and leads his people , and he alone searches the heart , and tryes the reins , and not the scriptures . c. but how then must spirits be tryed if not by the scriptures ? must one spirit try another ? f. the spirit of god must try all spirits ; for it knows the spirits whether they be of god , and if not , it discerns them , and judgeth infallibly of them ; and if they be of god , it receives them , and embraces them with joy ; and this is not the spirit of a man , to try the spirit of a man , but the spirit of god that tryes all mens spirits . c. then i perceive it is the spirit alone that i am to mind in all things . f. yes , child , for by minding of the spirit alone in all things , thou wilt come to a good understanding in all things , and be able to discern and put a difference betwixt that which is true , and that which is false . c. i am sensible that there is something in my conscience , that lets me see my secret thoughts , and the intents of my heart ; but i have not known what it hath been , nor hitherto have much regarded it . f. that is the true light of christ that lets thee see thy thoughts , and the intents of thy heart ; and god hath freely given it unto thee , and requires thy obedience to it : therefore , child , for the time to come , be more diligent , and have more regard unto it ; and when it shews thee evil , and reproves thee for evil , obey it ; so it will rend the vail from off thee , that is spread over thee , and keeps thee from the knowledge of god. c. but if i should turn unto it , and obey it when it reproves me for sin , is there power in it to save me from sin , and to deliver me from all iniquity ? f. yes , child , all power in heaven and earth is in it , and it is made manifest not only to shew sin , but also to destroy it ; and if thou obeyest , and in it believest , thou wilt feel it condemn sin , and destroy the devil that begets it ; and it will draw thee near to god , and give thee the knowledg of his glory . c. that is the thing that i earnestly desire : but when i look within , i see nothing but a body of corruption . f. that which discovers to thee the body of corruption , that is the light of christ : and when thou first seest thy self in it , thou canst see nothing but corruption standing ; but by obeying , and believing in it , thou wilt feel it break the body of corruption , and set thee free out of that bondage . c. but is that the light of christ , that shews me my thoughts , and words , and deeds , and makes them manifest what they are ? f. yes , child , that is the light of christ , and with it are they all made manifest , and thou canst not hide any thing from it ; when thou art in secret , it is with thee , and there shews thee what thy thoughts are , it sorts thy words and deeds , and lets thee see whether they bee good or evil : if thy thoughts be after vanity , it discovers them , and reproves thee in thy own conscience for them ; and thy thoughts thou canst not hide from it ; if thou speakest vain words , or dost any evil deeds , it condemns thee in thy self , and thou canst not fly from the judgement of it ; and this is the pure light of christ in thy own conscience , child , and is alwayes near thee to reprove thee for the things that be evil . c. this is true , for i do feel something in me that lets me see evil , both in thought , word , and deed ; and i also feel many checks in my conscience when i am doing the thing that is evil . f. why that is the light of christ that lets thee see all that ever thou hast done , and also what is present with thee , and what thy life is in ; and what thy love is after : and if thou mindest , thou wilt see what ever riseth out of the darkness , and what the prince of darkness tempts thee to do ; so that thou wilt find that the light of christ will make manifest every evil in the appearance of it , and will call thee to abstain from it ; and if thou obeyst , it will keep thee from joyning to it . and i shall in one instance , plainly inform thee of it , when the devil temps thee to put forth thy hand to take any thing that is not thy own , the light of christ lets thee see it to be evil , and thou art sensible that it is not thine before thou touchest it ; and if thou dost not obey the light that discovers it , then the devil prevails and draws thee to do it , and so thou becomest a thief , for which the light reproves thee : or if thou be tempted to tell a lye , the light lets thee see it before thou speakest it , and thou art sensible that the thing thou art to speake is not true ; and if thou dost not obey the light that shews it , the devil prevails and draws thee to speak it , and thou becomest a lyar , for which the light reproves the. c. this is true ; but will the light deal thus plainly with me in all things ? f. yes , child , it will deal plainly with thee in all things , and will not deceive thee in any thing , but will make it manifest as it is : if it be a lye , it makes it manifest to be a lye , and that which makes manifest a lye , that is true , and will not deceive thee ; therefore minde it , and obey it , and it will devide aright : and what is of the flesh , it will let thee see to be flesh , and so for condemnation . c. father , shew me what the works of the flesh are , that i may know them ? f. thou art to mind the light , and it will shew thee , and give thee true knowledge of them : for if at any time thou livest to the flesh , and satisfies it with the affection and lust , the light will condemn thee , and the work that is brought forth by thee , by which thou mayest certainly know that it is a work of the flesh ; yet for thy information i shall mention some of them , and shew thee what they are , covetousness , drunkenness , witch-craft , hatred , variance , emulation , strife , debate , deceipt , anger , envie , malice , back-biting , whispring , pride , fornication , adultery , gluttony , swearing , lying , sporting , playing , carding , diceing , dancing , ringing , feasting , revelling , banqueting , with much more ; and they that live in such things , cannot inherit the kingdom of god. c. here is a great number , father ; but do all these , and more then these , lodge in people ? f. yes child , all these , and more than these , lodge in the heart that is deceitful , where they are generated by the subtilty of the serpent , which is the seed of the evil-doer ; and he forms them up into a body , which is the body of sin ; and where they are , and the life in them , they separate from god , and vails from beholding the brightness of his glory . c. but cannot i know god , his way and truth , and yet live in some of these things ? f. nay child , if thy life be in any of them , and thou walkest in them , thou livest in that which can neither know god , nor please him ; and the way and truth of god thou art out of , for , as far as the east is from the west , so far doth sin separate from god. c. but must i deny them all ? f. yes , child , for if thou livest to the flesh , thou must die . c. alas father , who then shall be saved ? f. why those that turn when the light reproves them for sin , and those that obey and believe therein ; for in the light the name of christ is known , in which is salvation : and he that believes , is saved . c. but may i come to witness those works of the flesh destroyed whilest i am in the body , seeing they separate me from god , his way , and truth ? f. yes , if thou believest in the light , it will arise in power , and destroy thy lusts that war against thy soul , and will subdue the evil concupiscence of the unclean nature , out of which proceeds all evil , and in which thou canst not please god. c. father , i am but a child , and want understanding , tell me therefore how i must get out from amongst these evils ? for i now see my selfe beset with them , and i would willingly deny them , and part with them for christ. f. why child , i shall briefly inform thee of this thing : when thou feelest thy mind inclining toward● any evil , and that the light discovers it to be evil , then do thou mind the light that discovers it , and stand thou still and joyn not to it , but deny thy selfe , though thou mayest feel ● strong inclination towards it ; and i● thou stand still , & waitst in the light● thou wilt receive power against it● and strength to overcome it , an● thou wilt feel the power of th● light to cross thy will in what i● would do , and in the power tho● wilt feel thy salvation : and so ● thou mindest the light , and in it believ'st thou wilt be kept from joynin● to the evil , and walk in the dail● cross to thy own will , whereb● the world will be crucified unt● thee , and thou wilt be crucifie● unto the world , and true judgement will be executed upon th● evil-doer , and death will come upon thy own life , and slay thy lust , that hath loved any thing more then god. c. i desire one particular instance to clear this thing to my understanding ? f. i shall give thee one instance , which by minding , thou mayest know all the rest : when thy heart is lifted up in pride , and thou standest exalted in thy own minde , and there hast high thoughts of thy selfe , and striving to adorn thy body with costly apparel , and to put on any thing more than is needfull for the service of the body ; the light of christ in thy conscience , will reach unto thee , and plainly shew thee , that the thing thou art exercised in , is an evil thing , so as thou mayest sensibly feel correction for it : now , if thou turnest to the light when it reproves thee , and corrects thee ▪ and yield unto it without resisting ; it will reach to the top of thy pride , and bring thy haughtiness down , and lay thy loftiness low , and will crucifie thy carnal affection with the lusts of it , and will bring death upon it ; so will thy life and pride be taken away , and humility wi●l spring and come into honour ; and in the power which is the cross , the old thou wilt feel put off , and the new will be put on , and thou wilt be made a new man in christ , who will revea● the father unto thee , and give the true knowledge of him , his way , an● truth . c. this is a strait gate , father , i● there not another way by which i may come to know god ? f. nay , child , there is not another way , for christ is the way and if thou desirest to come to walk in christ , thou must part with also for him , and deny thy selfe to follow him ; therefore doth the power stand in the gate , to keep out all that is unclean , and to crucifie it , before there can be an entrance : and that is the reason , child , why so few enter in at the strait gate ; but do not thou flye the crosse , but mind the light that leads in it , so wilt thou feel the regeneration wrought , and a birth born that is of god , and is heir of the kingdom . c. but must every work of the flesh , which the light reproves me for , be denyed and crucified after such a manner ? f. yes child , for in the self-denyal , and daily cross , thou wilt feel the enmity slain , and the power will work thy freedom out of the bondage wherein thou hast been held captive under the enemies power ; and if thou lyest down patiently , and bearest the judgment willingly , judgment will be brought forth unto victory . c. alas father , this is a hard saying ; and if there be not another way to come to the true knowledg of god , i begin to faint already , and do not see how i can be freed from the evil that daily attends me ? f. the saying is not hard , child , but unto that which reasons about it , that would keep a life in something that must be destroyed ; and there is no cause for thee to faint , child , though evil attend thee daily , but believe in the light , and it will work the work for thee , and remove thy burden from off thee ; for all things are possible with god , and there is nothing too hard for him : therefore reason not about it , but believe over it , and the lord god will not forsake thee untill he hath perfected his work , for his love is to that which breatheth in thee , and through judgement he will redeem thee , and shew thee his salvation . c. but must i be born again , father ? f. yes child , or else thou canst not enter into the kingdom of god. c. how may i come to know that , with the work of it ? f. by diligent waiting in the light , whereby thou wilt come to feel the effectual working of god's power , through which the old birth , with all the deeds of it , will die ; and thou wilt feel a new birth raised , which after god is created in righteousness and true holiness . c. and what shall i be when such a work is wrought , and the new brith raised ? f. why , thou wilt be made a new man in the immortal seed , and thou wilt have a new heart , out of which will proceed new thoughts , words , and deeds ; and then thou canst not live any longer in the evil , but in the good , into which thou art redeemed by the resurrection of life : and herein , child , is the lord god truly known , his way , and truth . c. oh father ! that i could feel this work effectually wrought in me , then surely i should be eased of much that now oppresses me ? f. why , do not hasten , child , but keep stayed in the light , and there thou wilt feel the hand that worketh , and know the power of it whereby thy redemption will be perfected and the seed immortal raised ; then thou wilt feel the oppressor broken , and thy burden taken off , which will give ease unto thee , and bring in joy for mourning . c. but if there be not another way to know god , then how is it with all those people that do not thus believe , and yet professe god , and truth , and scriptures ? f. why child , all that are faithful to god , in what he makes known unto them , they are not judged ; though unto the truth they be not yet clearly attained : and though there may be a difference in the profession , yet it is but one thing in all that breathes after god , which the lord brings through the dispensations and administrations of professions , to inherit life in the possession : and it is not a profession that makes a christian , though people in a profession may speak largely ( in words ) of the grace of god , and the love of god ; but they read in that book notionally , before they have passed through the judgement experimentally : and do not thou busie thy mind so much to look after others , but mind thy self , for thou must give an account of thy self to god. c. but i desire to enquire somewhat after this thing , that i may receive information concerning it ; seeing there are so many professions , and all seem to differ , and yet but one true way , that so i may chuse the true , and deny the false . f. why , child , for thy satisfaction , i shall a little open it unto thee whereby thou mayest see into the ground of all professions , and how they all come to differ ; for peopl● wanting the life and power of chri●● in themselves , they are betrayed int● the words , which from the life an● power were given forth ; and the● not understanding the scriptures they are , they put to their meaning● and when in their meanings the● cannot agree , then arises the diffe●ence ; and one cryes , lo here ; an● another cryes , lo there , according to their own meanings and conclusions ; and so being from the spirit of god in themselves , from which the holy men of god gave forth the scriptures , they do not understand the scripture , nor the power of god : and this is the reason , child , why there are so many professions and shews of religion . c. then is it not very dangerus to put meanings to the scriptures , and from thence to draw conclusions concerning religion , when there is not a measure of the same spirit felt from which the scriptures were given forth ? f. it is very dangerous , child , and it is the way of the old serpent , and such a profession never makes a christian , nor brings forth a pure religion , but forms up a shew of godliness out of the power . c. but amongst these several professions , there is something seemingly good in their practice ; for they profess a worship to god , and they have praying , and preaching , and singing ; and they use those things called ordinances ; as baptism , and bread and wine ? f. child , this observe ; that which seems to be , and is not the thing it seems , it deceives the beholder : and there may be something seeming good in all the professions , and yet not be so as it seems ; and in the darkness it is not to be discerned , the pharises had long prayers , and that was seemingly good , yet christ called them hypocrites : so to judge according to the appearance , is very dangerous ; for , therein are many deceived , taking ● thing to be that which it is not . c. but is not the worship of god , good thing ? f. yes , the worship of god is a good thing ; but if there be no more but a shew of worship , it is not the worship of god , nor is not so good as it seemes to be , but is a will-worship , and not the worship in the spirit , which is the true worship of god. c. is not that a true worship where there is praying , and preaching , and singing , with such like good things ? f. that is a true worship where there is praying , and preaching , and singing in the spirit ; but there may be such things done , and not in the spirit , but in mens own will , and that worship is vain . c. then inform me , father , of the true worship . f. why , child , i shall shew thee : when the mind is joyned to the spirit of god , and is acted by it , and subjected to it , then is the lord god truly worshipped ; and that is the worship in the spirit . c. and how is that worship performed ? and what is the practice in it ? f. it is performed according to the good pleasure of the spirit , that blows where it listeth ; and the practice is , as the spirit moves . if the spirit gives words to declare , they are declared faithfully : if it move unto prayer , it is performed in it : and so the things practised in the true worship , are performed in the spirit 's power , and according to its own pleasure . c. do not all people that professe a worship unto god , perform their service in the spirit ? f. nay , child , for they that are in the flesh , cannot perform a spiritual service . c. how do they then preach and pray , with other things they practise in their worship ? f. they do it in their own wills , and in the strength of the earthly wisdom , and not in the spirit . c. and do those called ministers perform their service in their own wills and wisdom ? f. yes , child , they do it in their own wills and wisdom , and in their own time . c. but how shall i know that they do so ? f. by their limitation , in binding up their worship unto a time , place , and person ; but the spirit of god is not limited . c. why , is not their time , and place , and persons right , seeing their time is upon that day called sunday , and their place , that which is called a church ; and the persons , such as are counted ministers of christ ? f. nay , the lord god of power is not limitted to any of them . and as for their sunday , the heathen named it ; and the pope named their church ; and their schools and colledges made their ministers . c. but do they not preach sound doctrine ? f. nay , their doctrine is after the tradition of men , and not after christ ; and they get their doctrine by their arts and languages that they have learned at schools and colledges , and then read it , or speak it forth in their own wills that are corrupted , and there is no soundness in it . c. but if it be so , there are many deceived , for they are looked upon to be able ministers . f. yea , many are deceived , who walk not in the light that discernes them ; but who walk in the light sees them , and their wolfish nature under their sheeps cloathing . and now is the lord making them manifest , that they may not deceive any longer , for they have kept people alwayes learning , and are unprofitable talkers , teaching for filthy lucre , and not of a ready mind . c. but is not their praying a service that is accepted of god ? f. nay , for they pray not with the spirit , nor with the understanding . and some of them cannot pray at all , but as they have prayers made by others , and have them set in a book to read , as in the book of common-prayer ; or else get words into their memory , or comprehend them into the notion , and then speak them forth as in a way of prayer , when the spirit is not felt ; so that neither their preaching nor praying is accepted of god. c. and is not their singing an acceptable service ? for they that can sing praises are in a good condition . f. who are come into that state , where a psalm is given in the spirit , they are in a good condition , and can sing praises , and make melody in their hearts unto the lord ; and they rightly understand what they sing ; and they sing with the spirit , and with the understanding : but none can sing after this manner , but who are redeemed from the earth . but they have david's words put into meeter by hopkins and sternhold , and given them forth as they were david's condition , and the drunkard , and swearer , and lya● sing together , who know nothing of david's condition ; and so they sing lyes in hypocrisie , which is no● a right service , nor accepted o● god. c. i would know , father , how it 〈◊〉 concerning those things called ord●nances , as baptism , and bread an● wine , which are much used in the● worship ? f. why , child , as to those thing they rose from the pope's inventio● who hath had power in the night o● apostacy , and hath set up his d●vices , which are yet continued in england , though he seemingly is denied , and the whole practice of those things , as they use them , had their institution by the pope , and were never so ordained of christ ; for he did not ordain sprinkling water in a childs face , or to make a sign of the cross in its fore-head , nor god-fathers and god-mothers to undertake for it : neither did he ordain bread and wine to be so used and received . and the wine is another of the pope's inventions , who knows not the cup of blessing , in which is the communion of the blood of christ : so hath invented a silver cup , and pours wine into it , and then the priest gives it to the people , and tells them , that is the blood of christ which is shed for them , when it is wine , and not blood : and gives them bread , and tells them , that is the body of christ that is broken for them ; when people neither discern the body nor the blood of christ , and so eat and drink damnation to themselves . and true baptism , child , is in the spirit , which baptizeth into one body : and the true meat and drink , is the body and blood of christ , which the worthy receiver feeds upon in his heart . so that these things be false , and not to be regarded by the true christians who are come to the spirit , and live in the spirit , which is the substance . c. but is not the place in which all these things are performed , a true church ? f. nay , the true church is in god the father of our lord jesus christ ; and christ is the head of it , and hath the preheminence in it : but the place in which such things are performed , is also of the pope's invention , and he counts himself to be the head of it , and he would have the preheminence ; and is a place made by men , and it is wood and stone which do decay and wax old , and come to nought : then they make levies , and gather mony to repair it again ; and if they do not so , it will fall and consume , and turn into mire and dirt : but the true church , of which christ is the head , is a living thing , and doth not decay , nor wax old , but is ingrafted into him , and there is neither spot nor blemish in it . c. but are not these the true christians that practise and perform such things ? f. they have got the christan's words , and so count themselves christians ; but they are not in the christian's life , neither is their way the christian's way ; so they are practising those things that god requires not at theis hands , neither doth he accept them : and who are true christians , child , they come into union with christ , by the effectual working of his power in them , through which they are translated and made new creatures , and the new creature is in christ , and is a true christian ; but the old is an apostate . c. there is also some other things that i would be informed in , because i stand something doubtful concerning them . f. what are they , child ? c. i observe that people make much to do one with another when they meet together , or part one from another , in putting off their hats , and bowing and cringing , and going backward , and scraping ; and i am doubtful whether this be the true honour , with which i am to honour all men . f. this doubt will be easily removed , and thou mayest be assured that it is not the true honour . c. how may i be assured of it ? f. why child , they that seek honour one of another , they do not believe in christ , the power of god , which is honourable in all men , and is to be honoured where it appears in any ; and this seeks not the honour below , or to have the hat put off , or the body to bow and cringe , or the feet to scrape ; it neither seeks such honour , nor can give such honour ; for it is a beggarly honour when it is compared with that honour that comes from god alone , and where it is sought and expected it is from below ; and that which answers the expectation is the same : and so men seek honour one of another , and they give it one to another with their hat and kee , and , your humble servant sir : and such are not in the power of god , but in the vain customs of the heathen ; and so it is got in a custom to put of the hat , and bow , and cringe , and scrape ; and women to curtisie and droop ; and this is sought for and expected one from another , and they receive it one of another : and these are the apostate christians , that are out of the power of god that is honourable , and so seek honour one of another , and are respecting one anothers person ; and the rich and the proud they get the honour ; and the poor and the needy they are not regarded . c. but is there not such an honour that belongs to magistrates and men in authority ? f. nay child , such honour doth not belong to them , neither are they honoured when in is done so unto them ; for true honour is from the heart , and not from the hat : and where any thing of god appears in magistrates and men in authority , that is honoured with the heart , and it doth not expect the hat : and this is true honour , child , and it is given unto whom it is due . c. but seeing such a thing is expected by men in authority , is it not better for me to give it to them , then to offend them ? f. thou must be careful , child , how thou reason'st about it , lest thou run'st into transgession ; for if thou respect'st persons , thou committest sin , and the law of god will convince thee of trangression : therefore mind the lord and his teachings ; and if men be offended because thou obey'st the lord , thou wilt not be guilty of the offence ; but the wo shall be unto that in them which would be honoured with thy hat , from whence the offence comes . c. and doth not the lord require any such thing to be done ? f. nay : the lord requires it not , but the pride of man's heart seeks it ; for the lord requires that thou shouldest honour all men in him ; and that is , to give honour unto whom it is due ; but unto a proud , heady , high-minded man , there , is no honour due , though he may be great in the world , and be in place to rule ; but in the power of god the pooor is as honourable as the rich , and the beggar as he that rules ; and the honour is given as due unto the power , and not unto any man's person . c. i would be informed of another thing , father , what language i am to speak unto a single person , whether thou , or you , be the true language unto a single person ? f. why child , a single person being one and no more , the true language is thou unto him , or her : and hath been the language spoken by all that have been guided by the spirit of god without respect of persons ; and we do not read of another that was spoken by the holy men of god unto any person , whether a king , or any in authority under him ; for the spirit of truth leads into all truth , and thou to one is the language of truth without respect , and the spirit of truth teaches to speak it , and not another . c. but how is it then that people use the word you to one another , when they speak one to one ? f. because in that thing they do not mind the spirit of god , and its teachings ; and so the false spirit acting , brings forth a false word : for you to one , is an apostate language , and through the v●in custom of it , is become seated in the pride of heart ; and when the true language is spoken , the pride cannot bear it ; but it is the true language , child , and was so in the beginning before the fall ; and god is turning it again unto his people in this day of restauration . c. and must i use the word thou to all sorts of people ? f. yes , when thou hast occasion to speak to one ; and do not respect the person of any man or woman ; for it is as true to the rich as to the poor ; and the spirit of truth will teach thee to speak it if thou mindest and obeyest it ; and if thou dost not , it will reprove thee . c. but is it not a thing that will become me , to use good manners ? and people do not take the word thou to be good manners , when i speak to my betters ; and they will not have their children taught to speak that language , because they say it is unmannerly . f. it is the evil words , child , that corrupts good manners , whether it be in a child , or elder people ; but true words is mannerly , and is spoken in the manner of truth , which is good manners : and thou must not mind what others say , or how they will have their children taught ; but mind thou the lord and his teachings , and he will teach thee to speak good words , and true words , which is good manners ; and it is the evil words that crrupts it : and people that know not the teachings of god , nor the truth of god , they know not the manner of it , and so are seeking how to honour one another , and to speak to one another , and after what manner to do it , which is not in the manner of truth , but in the false spirit , which corrupts their words and actions , and so corrupts good manners . c. and how must i do concerning oaths , seeing that swearing in many things is required ? as sometimes to give testimony to what i know ; and sometimes to testifie my submission unto a ruler ; and also in other things ? f. whatever men require of thee , child , thou must mind what the lord requires of thee ; and if men require that of thee which the lord forbids thee , thou must obey god : and christ jesus hath forbidden all oathes , and it is not lawful to swear upon any account , though men may require it ; because christ hath commanded , not to swear at all : and if thou lovest him , thou wilt keep his commandments , and not transgress against him , because men require thee to do otherwise ; but do thou mind the spirit of truth , and it will teach thee to speak truth in what thou art called unto , and thy yea in the truth , will bind thee to perform faithfully what thou testifieth or engageth to : and so in all things thou art called unto , speak the truth from thy heart , as in the sight of god , and let thy yea be yea ; and let there be no more in any wise : for what is more , comes of evil . c. but there is much said concerning the lawfulness of an oath in such needful matters , as to end striffe , or engage to a ruler , with other things : and there are many scriptures brought for it . f. they that bring scriptures to plead for swearing in this day , they do not understand the scriptures ; for he who is lord of all , saith , swear not at all , neither by heaven nor by earth , nor by any other thing ; but let your yea be yea , and your nay nay , for what is more comes of evil : and thou art to obey jesus christ whose doctrin is true , and who ends the dispensation of oaths where strife was ; and in that dispensation , when they did swear , and were not to forswear themselves , it was not an oath formed in words , and then imposed by the laying a hand upon the bible , and kising it , but was solemnly spoken from their own mouths , and what proceeded out of their mouths , that they were to perform unto the lord ; and this was the oath commanded in that dispensation , as thou mayest read , num. . if a man vow a vow unto the lord , or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond , he shall not break his word , he shal do according to al that proceedeth out of his mouth : ( now mark child ) this was the thing the lord commanded in that dispensation , and it was no more but the word that was to proceed out of their own mouths , and were not to break , because it was the soul's bond ; therefore they were to do according to all that proceeded out of their mouths ; so that it was to proceed out of their own mouths , and not to be imposed in formed words , which binds not the soul : and there is no scripture that mentions any other way of swearing in that dispensation ; but now christ jesus , who ends all the changeable things , he saith , swear not at all ; but let your yea be yea ; and it is without exception , or putting any difference betwixt vain oaths , and solemne oaths : he saith , not at all , nor by any thing ; for , what is more than yea and nay , comes of evil : therefore , child , obey thou christ's doctrine , what ever men may require of thee ; and if thy yea will not be taken to the truth of thy word , let nothing else be done by thee , lest thou fall'st into condemnation . c. father , inform me concerning the observation of dayes , as those called holy-dayes , and that called sunday , which some call sabbath-day , and some the lord's-day , and whether the lord require that i should observe them ? f. if thou observest a day , child , observe it to the lord ; but he requires not the observing of particular dayes , for the seventh day was holy , in which he rested from all his work , and that was the jews sabbath , and they observed it to the lord as he commanded ; but christ jesus hath fulfilled it , and ended it : and those called holy dayes are set up in the apostasie , in which the saints have been killed and martyred , upon which dayes the apostates rejoyced and feasted ; and they are called feastifal dayes : and thou art to abominate the observing of them , because they were set up in the blood-thirsty spirit ; and for that called the lord's day or sabbath day , people do no● understand what they say ; for the sabbath is the seventh-day , and the observing of that is ended in christ ; and that called the lord's day , is the first day of the week : and the name sunday , is from the heathens , who celebrated that day unto the sun , and so called it sunday : but child , every day is the lord's day , and thou art to observe them all unto him , and walk in his fear , and in his dread every day and hour ; and who come to christ and believe in christ , come over the observation of dayes , into the one day of the lord , which is as a thousand years , and so walk with the lord in his day , and observe it to his glory and praise . c. i now feel my understanding pretty well informed and opened ; but will the light of christ , in my own conscience , let me see all these things , and teach me to understand them in truth ? f. yes ( child ) it will , if thou enclinest to its teachings , and stand'st single to obey , it will give thee a perfect understanding of god , his way and truth ; and will let thee see all the customs , and fashions , and traditions of the world to be vain for condemnation . and now , my child , receive instruction and be wise , and let not the counsel of thy father depart from thee , but treasure it up in thy heart , that thou mayest lay up for thy selfe a good foundation , and know the hand of the lord to build thee up : and now i exhort thee , child , to mind the fear of the lord , that thou mayest know the beginning of wisdom , and therein be made wise unto salvation ; and let not thy mind ( in any wise ) go after vanity : keep thy eyes from beholding vanity ; and as thou mindest the light of christ , thou wilt see it , and be kept from it . and now unto all sorts and sects of people , a few words i write . vnto the aged . thou that hast past over many years , and hast spent thy time in vanity , now wait to redeem it ; thou drawest nigh thy end , and the time that is past thou canst not call again ; thou must lay down thy earthly body , and how soon thou knowest not ; the world must pass away , and thou must leave it ; if thou hast gathered great riches , thou must not abide with them : what profit will there be in all these things , when thou must go hence and be no more seen ? and what will all thy professed religion do for thee in that day ? it will all forsake thee : therefore , whilst thou hast yet a day , turn and obey the lord and his living voice in thy conscience , that thou maist be gathered unto god , and know his salvation , before the day pass over . vnto the young men. thou that art in the strength of thy youth , spend it not in vain , nor satisfie thy hearts lusts , which many times provoke thee to do evil , thy dayes will end , and an account thou must give unto god ; therefore in time consider , before the evil day come upon thee , for thou knowst not how soon the lord may call for thee , and require an account of thee : therefore stand in aw and sin not , but walk in the fear of the lord , that it may go well with thee in the latter day . vnto little children . thou that art yet in thy young years , and art but like a plant springing up into strength , thou knowest not the day of thy cutting down : therefore whilst thy time is , mind the lord that made thee , and gives life and breath unto thee , and walk in fear before him , so will he teach thee the way wherein thou art to walk , and he will order thy conversation a right , and shew thee his salvation , and thou wilt be kept from the evil of the dayes that yet thou hast to pass through , and wilt know the power of god to pluck up the root of evil whilst thou art yet tender , and before it be too much grown in strength ; and thou wilt come to be grounded and rooted in the love of god , and in that spring up like a pleasant plant , so will thy dayes , which yet thou hast to pass through in this world , be joyful to thee ; and in the end , everlasting peace will be thy portion : therefore , little children , keep out of vanity ; lye not , swear not , envy not : be sober , be gentle , be peaceable , be tender , love one another ; be not proud in any wise ; put not on costly apparrel , take no thought after that ; be not curious in your meats and drinks , but having food and rayment , be therewith content . let not your apparrel be more than what is needful for your bodies , nor your food more then what is convenient for your refreshment : so will the lord adorn you with the beauty of holiness , and feed you with that meat that doth not perish . a few words concerning true discerning and judgment . now is salvation come from the most high , and the god of israel is over all ; he is confounding the wise men in their wisdom , and destroying the strong men in their strength , he is breaking the idols of silver , and the idols of gold , and every carved work he is throwing down , and his eye beholds the way of every man , and he sees their work of what sort it is ; he is the searcher of the heart , and he passeth by and beholds the intents thereof ; hidden things he brings to light , and by the gift of his own spirit he shews to every man his thoughts , this is his perfect gift to every man , a manifestation thereof all men have , that they thereby might profit ; and though a measure of this spirit hath a being in all , and makes its self manifest in all , and is the true light that doth enlighten all that come into the world , yet all do not receive it , nor come to be guided by it so walk in the flesh , and cannot please god , neither can perceive the things of god , and what is performed by such as a service or worship to god , he doth not require it at their hands ; and though they make many prayers he will not hear , for they have no union with his spirit ; and this tryes all people , and their works in a true discerning , and gives true judgment upon all according to their doings ; and who have not this spirit of christ they are none of his ; but all that receive it , and have union with it , they walk not in the flesh , but in the spirit , in which they see the shapes and forms of every image and likeness , and the ground from whence they do arise ; and no false birth can have a hiding-place , but from the least to the greatest they are discovered , and the fairest covering that any have cloathed themselves withal is seen through , and all the formed likenesses which appear this day amongst the sons of men in what they do profess of god , they are all seen to be of the flesh , and their root and principle is of that part and nature that is earthly , from which no good thing can arise ; and it brings forth a birth in its own likeness , and of its own nature , which by the spirit is truly discerned , and every work of the flesh is manifest to the spirit , for the spirit searcheth all things , & truly judges all things , for the spirit is truth : and though this may seem in many of your eyes to be rash judgment , and you may call it so , yet it will stand a witness against all that are satisfying the flesh . for there is not any thing so hardly received as that testimony that strikes at the life of another , and that which deals plainly and simply with all , and desires the good of all , that meets with the least entertainment in the hearts of people ; but that which flatters , and cryes peace when the bonds of iniquity stand , that is a pleasing thing unto the minds of all who walk in the flesh ; and that which coms to rip them up , and discover their nakedness to their shame , that , they kick against , and will not own nor receive it for truth ; for there is not any people would come to shame for what they do ; and that which opens secrets , and brings any thing to light , by which shame may come upon them , they turn against that and reject it , though the thing be really true which is witnessed against ; and so there is no work of the flesh that would come under the spirits judgment , though it be truly discerned and judged as it is , and the discerning and judgment stand in the truth ; but those concerned in it will not own it , but cry out , who made you a judge ? and why are you so rash to judge , as if all were to be condemned but your selves ? how do you know the hearts of people ? and why may not others be as right as you for what you know ? so every form and likeness would save its own life by putting off the judgment , as if none could discern it ; and no false birth that would have its nakedness to appear , lest it should come to shame thereby : and thus people harden themselves against the spirit 's testimony , which in it self is the searcher and tryer of hearts and reins , and none can hide their councel from it . ( mark ) is not this the judge that stands at the door and knocks ? doth not he discern when evil rises in your hearts ? and doth he not there reprove you ? what is it that you can hide that he finds not out ? what can you do in your secret chambers that he doth not know ? and what thought can you think ( amongst all your thoughts ) that he doth not discern ? and doth he not judge you in your own consciences , if you have thought any evil , or uttered vain words , or done any thing wickedly ? will you deny this to be a true discerner , and a righteous judge ? be sober , and there is a witness ( which you may feel in your selves ) to answer to the truth declared ; and all that have received the spirit , and are born of the spirit , they have an understanding given them , by which they are able to discern the flesh , & all the works of it , and give true judgment upon it without respect of persons ; not judging according to the flesh , but according to the spirit , and sees to the root and principle from which all things spring up and grow ; and they do not judge according to the outward appearance , but judge righteous judgement ; for such as discern no further than what outwardly appears , and then judge according to that , others from the same ground may draw as true a judgment against them : and here , people are not to judge , lest they be judged ; which is a place much alleadged against true judgment ; but whoso judges one of another , it is not in the spirit of truth which doth discern through all appearances ; but it is in the flesh which cannot perceive beyond what doth appear : and so all the false births give judgement one against another , and cannot bear the judgement of one another ; then they are provoked and angry one with another , and run into confusion and distraction , warring and fighting , and destroying one another about their formed religion ; none being come to the spirit that gives a discerning through what appears , and gives true judgment in the ground : but all born of the spirit have true union with it , and the flesh and the deeds of it , are subdued under it ; and they are no more in the flesh , but in the spirit ; and have received christ jesus the lord , and walk in him , and are spiritual , and the spiritual man judgeth all things , and he himself is judged of no man : and whether you can receive it or no , you are all truly tryed and judged not in the flesh , but in the spirit ; and your root and fovndation is seen and discerned , and is not found to be that which was in the beginning , but that which the subtility generated since the beginning , and so doth he rule over you , and blind your minds , that you cannot see , nor discern further than what appears ; and the mystery of the kingdom is hid from your eyes , and you run into the words with your carnal minds and earthly wisdom , and from what is written draw something to your selves , and form up a likeness in your conceivings , and bring that forth in the strength of your own wills ; and this is your foundation , and the first principle of your religion ; and so the harlot hath brought forth many children , which in her womb have all been conceived , and yet are not formed one like another , but all differ in their shape and likeness , and then strive one with another , and yet are all children of one house , and all of one kingdom ; but no love , nor unity found amongst them ; but envie , hatred and malice , and all one against another , and divided into heads and parties , which is an evident testimony of the ruine & fall of your house and kingdom ; for , a house divided against it self , cannot stand . therefore come out of it , lest it fall upon you , and utterly destroy you , and all come to that where peace and safety is ; for god hath prepared a sure refuge and resting place for all that will come : and he hath gathered many into unity , and perfect peace therein ; and they rest in his love , and are preserved in his power , and he alone is their strength and sure defence ; so hath the lord made his power known in this his day , and hath gathered a remnant to that which was in the beginning , which was ▪ the saints life , and from which the scriptures were declared , and of which they all testified , that is now made manifest which the false apostles ravened from , and many sons and daughters are come to glory in it ; and this is the spirit of truth , which leads into all truth , that cuts down transgression , and reigns over the head of the transgressor , and doth discover clearly all the deeds of darkness , which are come up since the dayes of the apostles , and are practised by such as are in the apostacy ; and this comprehends all , but cannot be comprehended of any ; it is pure , everlasting , unchangable , and no variableness there is in it : all that in it do believe , have found the author of eternal salvation , and are come to the wisdom and righteousness of god , and to the enjoyment of eternal life , which is in christ jesvs the lord , whose glory and majesty is spreading over the earth , and who is gathering a holy people to himself , that in them his praise may be shewed forth ; who alone is worthy , god of gods , and king of saints who by all his redeemed ones is over all , exalted , magnified , and praised for ever and ever . so the lord give you understanding in all things . something of truth manifested for the travelling birth to peruse and meditate . . man by transgression having lost his first estate of innocency , simplicity , and uprightness , he is altogether uncapable of recovering himselfe , and restoring himself into it again , which the wisdom of god beholding , his own compassion moved towards man , and in his wisdom he prepared a way in the light of his life , by which man might come again into the created state of uprightness and innocency ; and herein the love of god is universal , and is not bounded nor limited , whereby he doth appear to be a god gracious and merciful unto all mankinde , who by transgression is alienated from his loving kindness and mercy in the light of his life within every man , that man thereby might turn unto him , obey , and believe in him , that so by the light and power of his own life , he might redeem man out of all iniquity , transgression , and sin , and restore him into innocency , simplicity , and uprightness in his owne life , where his mercy and peace comes to be enjoyed according to the degrees of restitution . the love and mercy of god being thus held forth in his own compassion , and tendered in the day of his visitation unto all mankinde , it doth thereby appear that god would not have any to perish , but would have them turn to the light of his life , when by its testimony it doth reprove them in their own consciences , that so upon their obedience to the reproof , he might convert them , and heal them , and restore them . man thus considered in himself , as wholly uncapable of recovering himself , and restoring himself , then he is to cease in all things as to himself , and wait singly upon god in the light of his life to see his salvation come from him alone . when thy mind is thus turned to the light of christ jesus in thy own conscience , and that thou begin to yield unto it , and to obey its testimony , then in the light a holy thing is conceived , and by operation quickned , and being conceived and quickned in the life , it breatheth and thirsteth after life , and the life doth nourish it by giving more life unto it , and so prepares it for the day of its bringing forth , which in fulness of time doth come to pass ; and this is the birth which is born not of flesh , nor of blood , nor of the will of man , but of god. when thou art drawn towards ▪ god in the light of his life , and art quickned by the life to breath in tenderness after a larger measure of its fulness , then do thou wait to be preserved in the present measure which thou hast received ; for if after thy mind be turned to the light , and thou begin to behold something of the excellency and glory of the life , and of the kingdom , and to have some tasts of it ; and then start aside from the light , and begin to will and run out of it , and to compass to thy self the sight and spectacle which in the light is shewed thee , thou wilt run into great danger suddenly ; for that part which will run out of the light , and compass & gather that which in the light is seen , that part will enrich it self , & cloath it self with the work of its own hands , and thou wilt certainly find , that in such openings there will arise a ravishment and a joy in thee , thou being come to a sight of the glory of the life in the vision or prophesie , and if thou give way to that part which would be hunting and running out of the light , to fecth that in which in the light thou may behold , and so conclude thou hast attained it , and from thence satisfie thy self and create thy own peace in thy satisfaction , thou sits down satisfied in that which is polluted , though thou hast had the openings of that which in it selfe is true . when thou art come to the openings in the prophesie , and in the light beholds the glory of the kingdom , then in the light keep stayed , and wait to be guided by the drawings and leadings of it , that so by the light thou may'st be gathered into the life , and do not hasten in the forward part to catch & gather that , to thy self which is opened in propesie , for that part which in the forwardness doth catch and gather what is opened and seen in the prophesie , that part will work by imagination , and form a likeness in a false conception , and so will advance and set that up as if it were the true birth , and thereby thy mind will be lifted up in the apprehension of thy attainment , and antichrist will reign over thee , and destroy the holy thing which in life is conceived and quickned , and darkness will set up it self under a shew of an angel of light , and then thou wilt lose the sence and feeling of the life and its drawings , and miss the birth of the son whose glory thou hast beheld in the prophesie ; and where antichrist thus sets up himself by his deceivable working , he rules in spiritual wickedness in high places , and they that expect mercy and peace from god in such a state they deceive themselves , for mercy is with him that he may be feared , but that which exalts above him doth not feare him , so cannot partake of his mercy , but must be taken away by his judgment , and so there is a difference made between the pretious and the vile , and the mercy reaches the pretious , but the vile is judged . when thy mind comes to be exercised towards god in the light of his life , and thou art made , sensible that thy soul wants true peace , and that thy breathings goe to god in the pure earnest , then wait in the light to be preserved in patience , and keep thy eye to the leadings of the life , that darknes may not cast thee down by accusations , for if it cannot heighten thee , it will labour to cast thee down , and will not cease to present unto thee thy own unworthiness and weakness , & wil beget questionings in thee whether thou love cod fervently , or whether god will accept thee , and so the opposing spirit may cast thee down in thy youngness , whilest yet thou art not grown in strength to rebuke thy adversary , and that will cause feares and doubtings to enter thee , and griefe , and sorrow , and mourning to come upon thee . when thou feels that thy mind is disposed towards god in the light of his life , then do thou stand still and be watchful , that the light may keep thee in a true sence of thy own poverty , and the riches of gods mercy , and so preserve thee in a single dependency upon god alone , and then he will appear for thy help when thou hast need , and will succour thee in thy travail , and strengthen thee according to what he requires of thee , and every step thou setteth forward in obedience to his movings , thou wilt feel his hand to lift thee up , and his arme to draw thee on , and what hast thou to do for thy self , but to wait upon god to renew thy strength in thy travail , that thou maist follow him in his own way , and not depart from his counsel ; and if thou abide in the drawings of the life , he will not leave thee behinde him , but will enlarge thy heart to run the way of his commandments ; so thou that art travelling in the way of life , keep thy mind in the cool and meek spirit of god , for in that is life , and there thou wilt discern when any passion riseth , or any extream worketh , and when the life moves by operation , and raises thee up in the power of it self , and makes thee fresh and living with its own virtue , then yield thy self to be disposed by it , so will no false height ensnare thee , nor any accusation entangle thee , but the life will preserve thee in it self , and lead thee in the feeling of the love in which is the true temperance , that gives dominion over all inordinate affection ; and here thou wilt come to understand that it is god alone that worketh all thy works for thee , and so thou wilt be brought to cease from all thy own labour , and to wait upon god in a single dependency , to feel his movings , drawings and leadings , whereby thy way will be peace , and thy path pleasantness , and the lord thy god will give thee the refreshing mercy in his own love , by which thou wilt be comforted in thy travel , and be made strong to persevere unto the end , and then what thou hast seen afar off thou wilt come to inherit , and what thou hast breathed after thou wilt come to enjoy , and so thou wilt know that the life which quickned thee , the same will satisfie thee in the lot of thy inheritance , for mercy and peace is unto thee who art subjected to the wil of god ; and thus doth god alone bring to pass the councel of his heart for his seed sake ; therefore let all flesh be silent , and keep in silence , for time is with the lord , and his own time is the best time , who in time begins his work , in time prospers it , and in time perfects it and so in time quickning , in time nourishing , and in time bringing forth the birth of his life ; and this can no man do for himself with all his own labor , therefore feel thou the lord who art quickned by him , and cast all thy care upon him , for he careth for thee , and in humility he will exalt thee , in wants he will supply thee , in poverty he will enrich thee , in nothingness he will fill thee , in distress he will comfort thee , and in his love and life he will give thee all things freely , and so in innocency , simplicity and uprightness in the seed of god thou wilt walk with god in the paradice of his pleasure . now learn a parable , the vine is a tender plant , and all extreams are contrary to its nature ; therefore in winter it neither blossoms nor bears fruit , but the seed of its nature retires into its root , and there preserves it self in the extreamity of cold , and violent storm , but when the temperate spring comes the seed assendeth , and fills every branch with its virtue , whereby the branches shoots and spreads abroad , and the grapes they multiply & grow in clusters , and this comes to pass in the spring time , when the sons temperate heat breaks forth , and the clouds moderate dew and showers descend , even so is all born of god. so thou that art tender in the life , wait for thy growth in the same , and when the life moveth by its own power , do not quench it by reasoning , for though it work in its power , and may dispose thee by its power , yet is the moderation , temperance , and pure wisdom in it , and all extreams of passion are subdued by it , and so thou sitting in the life , thou sits over all deadness , and also over all unruliness , and in the pure temperance of the life , thou feelst gods presence , his vertue and goodness , by which thou art made fresh and green and fruitful , and in that state the lord hath pleasure in thee ; so it is a weighty matter to understand the true place of temperance , for it lyes beyond the comprehension of the deepest reason in the fall , and through faith is found in the life which reason cannot compass , for where it will it bloweth , and when it will it worketh , and by its working enliveneth , and so by its motion disposeth the mind in the pure temperance of its own nature and property , in which there is no contrariety by any composition , & therfore the motion of the life cannot be truly called a passion or an extream , though it may dispose the mind contrary or beyond what the wisdom below can fathom or comprehend . so every babe of life , hold fast that which in the life thou hast received , & what thou mayest further see in the prophesie unto which thou art not yet attained ; wait in patience and let patience have its perfect work in thee , and the life will draw thee and bring thee into its selfe in its own time , and what thou hast not yet seen , be not inquisitive to know , but live by faith in the measure of the life which thou hast received , and unto which thou art attained , and let not thy reason search into the secrets of god ; and being stedfast in the faith unto god , and holding fast that which thou hast received in the life , and in the drawings of the life keep thy way ; that which thou hast not yet received , god will give thee in his time , and what thou hast not yet seen god will reveal it unto thee , and so by the life thou wilt be preserved in the feeling of the life that is present with thee , and in the vertue of it thou wilt grow from one degree to another , and so in due time come to be perfect and intire therein , and in thy place where thou art travelling in a measure of the life , thou wilt feel perfect union with god , and with all the lambs and babes born of god in what degree soever they stand in the life , and thou wilt also feel union with every motion of the life , whether in babes , strong men or ancients , and the life will conform thee unto what is practised by its own motion , and so thou wilt hold the true form in unity as from the life it is moved , observed , and practised , which being less or more it is but one in all , and doth perfectly agree in it self both in ground and practice ; and what is formed by the life , and manifested from the life , that form is not without the power of the life , but is filled with the glorious presence of the love of god , and that manifestation is to be submitted unto in all humbleness of mind , as in the sight of god , and there every babe , lamb , and plant , will receive the heavenly nourishment , and so grow up as living members of a compleat body in christ the head . in the light of christ is the riches of the kingdom , and in the light are all things ministred that is good for food ; for the light gives the savor of the life , and the life is the souls nourishment , and this bread comes down from heaven , and hath life in it , and they that eat it live by it and do not die : therefore in the light all are to enter into the house of the lord , and wait at his table , where food is prepared , and the cup filled , and in all humility to receive what the father giveth , and covet no more , and then you will sit as a family at on table , and discern the lords body and feed upon it , and not be condemned , and herein god commends his love unto you , in that he furnishes his table for you , and gives you to drink of the river of his pleasure freely ; and this is the cup of the new testament in his blood , which is his life , and it doth not corrupt nor decay in it selfe , but is alwayes new and fresh , and living ; and so there is a time when the life opens and ministers , and there is a time to receive it , and a time to retain it , and a time to feed upon it , and a time to encrease in it , and a time when some may be spared , and a time to deal it ; and this is the son of wisdom that abides in the fathers house , and is alwayes in his presence , and knows the fathers time in giving , and observes the fathers time in disposing , and he neither carelesly hides his portion , nor prodically spends it , but in the fathers counsel is ordered aright : therefore every one know your own portion , and when ye meet together in one place , sit down at the lords table , eat his body , drink his cup , for that ●s your portion , and alwayes feel it new in the kingdom , and do not give your own por● unto any , until you have enough for your sel● and some to spare ; for when god commendeth love unto you , and that ye taste how good he is t● sinke down into it , that you may come more 〈◊〉 the fulness ; and what is given receive it as yo●● own portion , and feed upon it , and grow in 〈◊〉 and run not from the table with a taste , and pro●●gally spend it , for so you may give your own br●●● away , which god commends unto you for y●●● own use , and thereby lose your portion , whilest ●●● children of the kingdom sit at the table and s● together at the table , eating the bread of life , drinking the cup of blessing , and so inherit 〈◊〉 own portion , and increase in it , and then the 〈◊〉 overflows , and they can spare a little , and yet h●●● enough for themselves , and this is a safe state every one to keep at the table of the lord. notingham county goal , month. . this is given forth from the deep love of god for 〈◊〉 chosen , who breath in his life to do his will ; 〈◊〉 whom be everlasting peace . william sm●●● the end . an account of severall things that passed between his sacred majesty and richard hubberthorne quaker on the fourth of june after the delivery of george fox his letter to the king. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing a a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an account of severall things that passed between his sacred majesty and richard hubberthorne quaker on the fourth of june after the delivery of george fox his letter to the king. hubberthorn, richard, - . [ ], p. printed for m.s. and are to be sold at the booksellers shops, london : . reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. eng quakers -- early works to . great britain -- history -- charles ii, - -- early works to . a r (wing a a). civilwar no an account of severall things that passed between his sacred majesty and richard hubberthorne quaker on the fourth of june . after the d [no entry] b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an account of severall things that passed between his sacred majesty and richard hubberthorne quaker on the fourth of june . after the delivery of george fox his letter to the king . london , printed for m. s. and are to be sold at the booksellers shops . . an account of what passed between the king and richard hubberthorn , after the delivery of george fox his letter to the king . r. h. since the lord hath called and gathered us to be a people to walke in his feare , and in his truth , we have alwaies suffered , and been persecuted by the powers that have ruled ; and been made a prey of for departing from iniquity . and when the breach of no law could be charged against us , then they made laws on purpose to ensnare us , and so our sufferings were unjustly continued . k. it is true , those that have ruled over you have been cruell , and have professed much which they have not done . r. h. and likewise the same sufferings doe now abound in more cruelty against us in many parts of this nation , as for instance , one at thetford in norfolke , where henry fell ministring unto the people , was taken out from the meeting and whipt , and sent out of that towne from parish to parish , towards lancashire , the chiefe ground of his accusation in his passe which was shewn to the king was because he denied to take the oath of allegience and supremacy ; and so because for conscience sake we cannot sweare , but have learned obedience to the doctrine of christ , who saith , sweare not at all ; hereby an occasion is taken against us , to persecute us ; and as it is well known we have not sworn for any nor against any , but have kept to the truth , and our yea hath been yea , and our nay nay , in all things , which is more then the oath of those who are out of the truth . r. but why can you not swear ? for an oath is a common thing among men to any engagement . r. h. it is manifest , and we have seen it by experience , that it is so common amongst men to swear and engage either for or against things , that there is no regard taken of them , nor fear of an oath : that therefore which we speak from the bottom of our hearts is more then they swear . k. but can you not promise as before the lord , which is the substance of the oath ? r. h. yes , what we doe affirm we can promise before the lord , and take him to our witnesse in it ; but our so promising hath not been accepted ; but the ceremonie of an oath they have stood for , without which all other things were accounted of none effect . k. but how may we know from the words that you will perform ? r. h. by proving of us , for they who swear are not known to be faithfull but by proving of them , and so we by those who have tryed us are found to be truer in our promise then others by their oaths , and to those that do yet prove us , we shall yet do the same . k. pray what is your principle ? r. h. our principle is that jesus christ is the true light which enlightens every one that cometh into the world , that all men through him might believe , and that they are to obey and follow this light as they have received it , whereby they may be lead unto god and unto righteousness and the knowledge of the truth that they may be saved . k. this do all christians confesse to be truth , and he is not a christian that will deny it ? r. h. but many have denyed it both in words and writings and opposed us in it , and above a . books are put forth in opposition to this principle . lords , then some of the lords standing by the k. said that none would deny that , one of the lords asked how long we had been called quakers , or did we own that name ? r. h. that name was given us in scorn and dirision about twelve years since , but there was some who lived in this truth before we had that name given us . k. how long is it since you owned this judgement and way ? r. h. it is near years since i owned this truth according to the manifestation of it . k. what is your name ? r. h. richard hubberthorn . k. do you own the sacraments ? r. h. as for the word sacrament i do not read of it in the scripture , but as for the body and blood of christ i own , and there is no remission without blood . k. well that is it , but do you not believe that every own is commanded to receive it ? r. h. this we believe that according as it is written in the scripture , that christ at his last supper took bread and brake it , and gave it to his disciples , and also took the cup and blessed it , and said unto them , as often as ye do this , that is , as often as you break bread you shew forth the lords death till he come , and this we believe they did , and they eat their bread in singleness of heart from house to house , and christ did come again unto them according to his promise , after which they said , we being many are one bread , for we are all pertakers of this own bread . k. friends . then one of the k. friends said , that is truth , for as many grains make one bread of they being many members are one body , another of them said , if they be bread they must be broken ? r. h. there is difference between the bread he brake at his last supper , wherein they were to shew forth his death as in a sign till he came , and this whereof he spake they being many are one bread , for herein they were come more in the substance , and to speak more mistically as they know in the spirit . k. friends then they said it was truth and he had spoken nothing but the truth . k. how know you that you are inspired by the lord . r. h. according as we read in the scriptures that the inspiration of the almighty gives understanding , for by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of god . lords then one of the lords said how do you know you are led by the true spirit ? r. h. this we know because the spirit of truth it reproves the world of sin , and by it we were reproved of sin , and also are led from sin unto righteousnesse and obedience of truth , by which effects we know it is the true spirit , for the spirit of the wicked o doth not lead unto such things . k. and l. then the king and lords said it was truth . k. well of this you may be assured that you shall none of you suffer for your opinions or religion , so long as you live peaceably and you have the word of a k. for it , and i have also given a declaration to the same purpose , that none shall wrong nor abus● you . k. how do you own magistrates or magistracy ? r. h. thus we own magistrates whomsoever is set up by god , either k. or supream , or any set in authority by him , who are for the punishment of evil doers , and the praise of them that do well such we shall submit unto & assist in righteousnesse and civil things both by body and estate , and if any man do that which is unrighteous we must declare against it , only submit under it by a patient suffering , and not rebell against any by insurrections , plots , and contrivances . k. then the k. said it is enough . lords , then one of the lords asked why do you meet together seeing every one of you have the church in your selves ? r. h. according as it is written in the scriptures the church is in god , thes. . . and they who feared the lord did meet often together and speak one to another and were edyfied and comforted one in another , and so is our meeting together in the fear of the lord , and to us it is profitable and herein we are edyfied and strengthned in the life of truth . k. how did you first come to believe the scriptures were truth ? r. h. i have believed the scriptures from a child to be a declaration of truth , when i had but a litteral knowledge , natural education and tradition , but now i know the scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the spirit of god fulfilling them in me . k. in what manner doe you meet , and what is the order in your meetings ? r. h. we do meet in the same order as the people of god did , waiting upon him , and if any have an exhortation from the lord he may speak it , or if any have a word of reproof or admonition , and as every one hath received the gift , so they minister one unto another , and may be edyfied one by another . lord , one of the lords said , then you know not so much as you may know but there is a growth then to be admitted of ? r. h. yes , we do grow daily into the knowledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it . k. are any of your friends gone to rome ? r. h. yes there is one in prison at rome . k. why did you send him thither ? r. h. we did not send him thither but he found something upon his spirit from the lord whereby he was called to go to declare against superstition & idolatry wich is contrary to the will of god . k. f. the kings friends said there were two at rome but one of them was dead . k. have any of your friends been with the great turk ? r. h. some of our friends have been in that countrey . some other things would have been spoken but the king passed away . finis . something relating to the bill for small tithes: humbly presented to the consideration of the parliament, in behalf of the people called quakers,. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) something relating to the bill for small tithes: humbly presented to the consideration of the parliament, in behalf of the people called quakers,. england and wales. parliament. sheet ([ ] p.). s.n., [london? : ] imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the friends' library (london, england). created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng tithes -- england. quakers -- england. broadsides -- england -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion something relating to the bill for small tithes : humbly presented to the consideration of the parliament , in behalf of the people called quakers , vvhereas by two acts passed in the th and th of william the ●● provision is therein made , for the more easie recovery of tithes , c●●●ch-rates , &c. for the value of ten pounds and under : whereby we humbly conceive , our ease , as well as the prosecutors , was intended ; and not an addition to the extremity of our former sufferings . i. nevertheless , some persons have proceeded , by process out of the exchequer to sequestration , on the defendants estates , both real and personal . ii. and also by process out of the common pleas , to treble damages . iii. and in the ecclesiastical courts to excomunication and imprisonment . whereof a few of the many instances that might be given , do here follow . norfolk , richard allen of stifky , sued in the exchequer , to a sequestration by william harmar , had his goods seized , valued at more than fourscore pounds , for l. s. tithes decreed by the court. there is also a sequestration gone down against richard case , at the suit of henry meriton of norfolk , for s. tithes ; and hath already brought in a bill of costs , of suit , of l. s. d. and a d bill is expected , when the sequestration is executed , and all this for s. tithes . norfolk , henry wake had his goods taken to the value of l. s. d. for two years tithes , by thomas thurlin of gaywood , who left one year's tithe of l. s. unseized ; and for that hath sued the said wake to a sequestration ; and hath already deliver'd in a bill of l. s. costs of suit ; and a subsequent bill is expected ; and all this for twenty four shillings decreed for tithes . cumberland , john taylor , of holm-cultrum , sued in the exchequer to a sequestration , had his corn and cattle seized , to the value of l. s. for twenty five shillings eight pence , for tithe demanded . thomas drape of the same , prosecuted to a sequestration , had his goods seized to the value of l. for l. s. d. for tithes demanded . hampshire , alexander moore of fordingbridge , sued in the exchequer to a sequestration , by john hall clerk , the prosecutor brought in two bills of costs of suit , amounting to l. s. d. and hath actually seized and sold to the value of l. s. d. for l. s d. demanded . worcester , william zankey of arely , was sued for l. and treble damages being recovered against him , had his goods seiz'd to the value of l. daniel tipper of the same , was sued for l. and treble damages being recovered against him , had his goods seized to the value of l. viz. all his cows , all his horses , all his sheep but one. the said zankey and tipper , both at the same time , prosecuted for small tithes in the spiritual courts ; thereby to have their bodies in prison , as well as to take their goods ; and were actually imprisoned thereupon , by the writ , de excommunicato capiendo . kent , john love of canterbury , for fifty odd shillings sued by humphry brailsford of canterbury , and by process from the exchequer imprisoned , being a poor man , and a last-maker , and hath a sickly wife , and four small children , whose maintenance depends upon his labour . surry . nat. owen of coulsdon , had his corn taken away in kind , for the years , , and , by timothy turner , rector of the said place . but for the years . and . the said rector stop'd l. s. for the poor's rate ; yet is suing him in the exchequer , in order to a sequestration . essex . john bayly of keldon , bricklayer , prosecuted before the justices , on account of small tithes : yet the prosecutor declined the determination of the justices , by the late acts , for the more easie recovery of tithes , and hath since proceeded in the exchequer , in order to a sequestration of his estate . it 's therefore humbly proposed to your consideration , whether it is not needful , for prevention of such ruinous proceedings , for the future , to put a stop to the like severities , by restraining the prosecutors to such methods as are agreeable to the title and intention of the said acts. the like restriction being provided in the , of car. ii. chap. . sect. . in relation to the city of london . the true copy of a paper given in to the yearly meeting of the people called quakers at their meeting-place in grace-church-street, lonon, day of the d. month . by george keith, which was read by him in the said meeting, by their allowance. with a brief narrative of the most material passages of discourse betwixt george white-head, charles marshal, and george keith, the said day, and the day following, betwixt george white-head, william penn, and francis canfield on the one side, and george keith on the other; ... together with a short list of some of the vile and gross errors of george whitehead, john whitehead, william penn, their chief ministers, and now having the greatest sway among them (being of the same sort and nature with the gross errors charged on some in pensilvania) most apparently opposite to the fundamental doctrines of the christian religion ... and a proposition to vvilliam penn, to prove his charge, that g.k. is an apostate. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the true copy of a paper given in to the yearly meeting of the people called quakers at their meeting-place in grace-church-street, lonon, day of the d. month . by george keith, which was read by him in the said meeting, by their allowance. with a brief narrative of the most material passages of discourse betwixt george white-head, charles marshal, and george keith, the said day, and the day following, betwixt george white-head, william penn, and francis canfield on the one side, and george keith on the other; ... together with a short list of some of the vile and gross errors of george whitehead, john whitehead, william penn, their chief ministers, and now having the greatest sway among them (being of the same sort and nature with the gross errors charged on some in pensilvania) most apparently opposite to the fundamental doctrines of the christian religion ... and a proposition to vvilliam penn, to prove his charge, that g.k. is an apostate. keith, george, ?- . p. printed for r. levis, london : . "to the yearly meeting of the people called quakers, met at london, the th, d month, " has caption title on p. ; "a brief narrative of the most material passages, &c." has caption title on p. ; "a short list of the vile and gross errors of geo. whitehead, john whitehead, and william penn, &c." has caption title on p. ; register and pagination are continuous. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng whitehead, george, ?- -- early works to . penn, william, - . whitehead, john, - . marshall, charles, - . crisp, stephen, - . camfield, francis, or - society of friends -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . quakers -- england -- controversial literature -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - haley pierson sampled and proofread - haley pierson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the true copy of a paper given in to the yearly meeting of the people called quakers , at their meeting-place in grace-church-street , london , day of the d. month . by george keith , which was read by him in the said meeting , by their allowance . with a brief narrative of the most material passages of discourse betwixt george white-head , charles marshal , and george keith , the said day , and the day following , betwixt george white-head , william penn , and francis canfield on the one side , and george keith on the other ; wherein is laid open their most unfair , unjust and unchristian method of procedure against him , contrary to the doctrine of christ , and all true gospel order . together with a short list of some of the vile and gross errors of george whitehead , john whitehead , william penn , their chief ministers , and now having the greatest sway among them ( being of the same sort and nature with the gross errors charged on some in pensilvania ) most apparently oppsiote to the fundamental doctrines of the christian religion , asserted and maintained by them in their printed books , and some scandalous passages out of stephen crisp's collection , approved by them , concerning christ's generation in time , and blood of his humanity ; faithfully transcribed by george keith . and a proposition to vvilliam penn , to prove his charge , that g. k. is an apostate . isaiah . ● . forasmuch as this people dram , &c. per. . but there were fals● prophets also among the people , even as there shall be fals teachers among you , who privily shall bring in damnable here●ie even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves shift destruction ; and many shall follow their pernicious ways , by reason of whom the may of truth shall be evil spoken of . london , printed for r. levis , . to the yearly meeting of the people called quakers , met at london , the th , d month , . i come here before you in a spirit of love , to acquaint you with divers things relating to my present case ; chusing rather to commit what i had to say , into writing , then by word of mouth ; well knowing that words spoken , either may not be so well remembred by them that hear them , or may be liable to be misconstrued by some that may be prejudiced . in the first place , i lay my complaint before you , against divers persons owned by you , as members of your society , for their publick defamation of me , and grosly and unchristianly representing me in some late printed books ; as particularly thomas ellwood in his two printed books against me , and john pennington in his printed book . and i desire that justice of you , that ye may hear what i have to offer to you as sufficient proof and evidence , that they have grosly defamed me , and falsely accused me , and misrepresented me ; and also i laying complaint against the second days meeting , or that party of them , who have either approved or permitted such scandalous books to come forth against me ; and also for their approving or permitting sam. jennings his scandalous book fill'd with many falshoods and defamations , to come out against me , as i have made sufficiently to appear in my late answer to the same , and offer more to make appear , if ye give me a hearing . secondly , i lay my complaint before you , against divers persons who have publickly interrupted me in my publick testimony , and exercise of my ministry in meetings , particularly daniel whirlley at two several times in the meeting at whitehart-court ; the last time being the last first day ; and w. penn , some weeks ago , at ratcliff meeting , not only interrupted me in my publick testimony , but called me apostate , and an open enemy to truth and friends , doing what in me lay to pluck up the testimony of truth and friends by the roots , with divers others false speeches and defamations ; but instead of proving his charge against me , he went away in hast . now his charge against me , that i was an apostate , and did what in me lay to pluck up the testimony of truth and friends by the roots , doth plainly enough imply his offence at the doctrine asserted by me , as being opposite to the principal testimony of truth asserted by faithful friends , and striking at the very root and foundation of friends testimony . now i desire this justice of you , that w. penn be required to make good his charge against me , and prove me guilty of the same , or that he be brought to acknowledg his error ; and also i desire to know what any of you have against me , in matter of doctrine , or life and conversation , that maketh some so unfriendly and unbrotherly towards me ; and whatever my offences may be , whether supposed or real , that it may appear that ye are for doing justice impartially , without favour or respect of persons ; i judg ye ought to be concerned , equally to hear my complaints , and do me justice against such owned by you , as have wronged me , as to hear their complaints against me , and do them justice against me ; if it appeareth that i have wronged them , yea , suppose i were as bad as some represent me , or worse , suppose i were turk or jew , ye ought to do me justice against them that have defamed me , and falsly accused me ; and in order to do me justice , to hear the evidences and proofs that i have to bring forth against them . thirdly , whereas they that gave forth that paper , called , a true account of the proceedings at the last yearly meeting in this place , gave it as their advice , that friends should be tender and kind to me ; as i should approve my self to be a man of peace and charity towards all , and answer your christian advice therein , and to avoid all publick and apparent reflections on both sides . now that it may appear ye are for doing justice impartially , let it be impartially examined by you , as well whether they of the one side have not kept to that advice given in that paper , as whether i have kept to it on the other side , and let it be duely weighed in the ballance of truth , which of us are more or less guilty , or whether they or i be most , or altogether innocent ; but if it be said , there is no time for such an examination or enquiry , i say , if sufficient time be not allowed for such an examination , no due judgment can be given in the case against me ; for whatever pretences some make to judg me to be wrong , and of a wrong spirit , from their inward sence and discerning , without outward proofs and evidence in matter of fact against me , will bear weight with none of a sound judgment , and who have a due regard to christ's doctrine , which is to judg the tree by its fruits , and these fruits must be made appear in some matter of doctin or faith , and the scriptures forbid to receive an accusation against an elder , but before two or three witnesses . fourthly , i lay my complaint before you against will. bingely , john vaughton and others , who have manifestly , to the observation of the meeting , endeavoured to hinder my speaking in meetings , so closly speaking one after another , and sometimes making signs , and pulling by the coat to stand up and speak , on purpose to prevent my speaking ; and on a first day , at whitchart-court meeting , w. bingely and sam. walldenfield , broke up the meeting before its usual time , as is well known vv. bingely , or some other crying out , pass away friends , after i began to speak , which occasioned a great disorder and confusion in the meeting . and is it not a great shame and scandal that it should come under publick observations , to makes signs one to another , by pulling him by the coat , or sleve , to stand up and speak , which occasions many to say , the quakers can transgress their principle when they have a mind , by speaking whithout a motion of the spirit , when they obey the outward sign and motion of another to speak , as if the spirits inward motion did ansver to the beck of their outward motion ; and have we not blamed it in other professions , for one to say to another , brother do ye pray , as being an argument such did not attend to the motions of the spirit of god in themselves , and to be sure no more do they among us , who give signs one to another , to speak in meetings . fifthly , whereas it is said by some , and particularly by john vaughton and iohn field , which i think they will not deny ; and can be proved , that those who denied me in pensilvania , their denying me and disowning my ministry , was enough for friends to deny me here , and that there need no more for friends to deny me here ; for friends here , and they who denied me in pensilvania are one , and they own their judgment in disowning me , to be a true judgment and effectual . now if this be so , and that it be your sence , how is it that this was not expressed in that paper , called , a true account given out at the last yearly meeting , and that friends generally joyned with me in prayer , about the time of the last yearly meeting , and were uncovered when i prayed , and that they recommended it to friends , to be tender and kind to me , and to avoid all public and apparent reflections on both sides . but if it had been their judgment , that i ought not speak in meetings , it had been improper to adv●●e me to avoid all publick and apparent reflections , for he that sayeth nothing in publick , cannot be said to reflect . sixthly , seeing divers owned by you , as members of your society , both in city and country , do still own me , as a friend of truth , and my ministry and testimony ; and others disown me , and a third sort are in suspence and doubt concerning me ; i desire you to be plain and express in giving your unanimous sense and judgment concerning me , either to own or disow me , in such plain and express terms , as may leave no room for any doubt of your meaning ; and what paper ye give out concerning me , let it be signed with all your hands , that give judgment in the case , and not laid on the clark , that it may appear all present are unanimous in the said judgment . but ye cannot give out any paper of judgment against me , for any new matter since the last yearly meeting , until after ye have given me a fair oportunity to answer to all that my accusers bring against me : nor can ye in justice permit such who have sufficiently discovered themselves to be prejudiced against me , either to be witnesses against me , or to sit among you and give judgment in the case , nor can it be reckoned a duely constitute meeting , if any owned by you to be friends , be kept out , and excluded from hearing and seeing , and giving judgment in the case , and the meeting consined to a select number of ministers , and two sent from every county , this cannot be owned to be any true , free and duely constitute meeting , where all , or any that desire to be present , and give their judgment are excluded , and is plainly contrary to the doctrine delivered by r. b. in his annarchy , and generally approved by friends . now the persons i do particularly except against , either to be evidences against me , or judges in my case , being manifestly prejudiced , are will. penn , will. bingely , george whithead , john vaughton , john field , sam. waldenfield . seventhly , what sentence ye pass concerning me , i desire you to make it publick , and let me have a true copy of it , with your particular rasons of your censure , what it is either in matter of doctrine or matte of life and conversation , that moveth you to pass any hard or severe censure against me , if so ye do , and not to give such bare general reasons as some use against me , without all proof or evidence , in mattr of fact against me , as that i am of a wrong spirit , contentious , se●king to break the peace of the church , &c. and lastly , i desire to know your sence of these words , in the paper called , a true account of the proceedings , given out about the time of the last yearly meeting , wherein they advise me to clear the body of the people called quakers , and their ministers from these gros errors , charged on some few in america . if ye mean by the body , only the faithful , i have done it formerly in my printed books , declaring i never charged the body of faithful friends ; but if ye mean by the body , the generality , and such generally who are under the same prosession , and not denied by them , i tell you plainly it is a most unjust and unfair thing to require it of me , because , as i know not one of many hundeds of that people , in many places , whether they be sound in the faith of these doctrines , or guilty of these gross errors charged on some in america , so to my certain knowledg , some here , even in england , are guilty of divers of these gross errors , which i offer to prove out of their printed books ; and suppose any of them have corrected their judgment , since their printed books , yet until they correct their books by as publick a testimony , as they have published their errors , they are liable to be blamed for these errors . and seeing i know not any thing that any have against me , of just occasion , why i should be disowned by you , or my ministry , but that the great occasion many take against me , is my zealous and conscientious opposition to vile errors , opposite to fundamental doctrines and principles of christianity ; which i have sufficiently proved divers guilty of in america ; and of which i offer to prove some sufficiently guilty of here among you , and owned by you ; and for my conscientious refusing to hearken to the advice , or suppose , command of them that would injoyn me to clear the guilty , which neither god nor any good man will do , without repentance , and disowning their errors ; and my conscientious discharge of that part of a gospel-ministry , in reproving vile and gross errors in publick meetings ; and rescuing many places of scripture from the perverse glosses that some put upon them in publick meetings . if for this my conscientious performance of my duty both to god , and also to the souls of people , i shall be disowned by any party among you , or among that people called in scorn , quakers ( for i believe i shall never be disowned by the most faithful and conscientious of that people , for my faithful and zealous testimony to the truth , against vile errors ; and that i shall never , by the grace of god , give any just occasion to any against me ) ; though i cannot but be very sorry on their account , who shall so unjustly judge me , and cast me out ; yet i shall rejoyce , and have great cause so to do , that it hath pleased god to give me a lot amongst others his dear servants , who have suffered the like evil treatment by men of high pretences , and i rely upon god's faithful promises , who hath promised a great reward to such in heaven , who suffer for his name 's sake on earth ; an earnest of which i now enjoy by his blessed spirit in my heart , john . , , . isa . . . job . , . george keith . a brief narrative of the most material passages , &c on the th of this iustant the d month , . i came to the meeting-house door , at grace-chureh-street , where the yearly meeting was sitting , which was carefully kept shut by three or four persons , they refusing to let in but friends of the ministry , and others commission'd from the several counties and meetings , or any other persons whom they thought fit ; and i offering to enter in , was stopt by the keepers ; i enquiring their reason , they told me i was not in unity with friends . i replied , i know no meeting , as yet in england that hath disowned me . but one of the keepers proffered to go in , and acquaint the meeting , that i desired to have entrance , which he did ; and a little after some came out , and told me , i was not to have entrance , but if i had any paper , they would carry it in to the meeting ; i told them i had a paper , but not having a copy of it , i would not give it out of my hand , and though i had another copy , yet i was resolved to give no paper to them , to be read in their meeting , unless i were present , so that evening two of the meeting came to my house , and told me the yearly meeting agreed i should come next day , about the sixth hour , in the evening , and have entrance to read my papers , or hear it read , providing i would withdraw when dersied , which i promised ; so at the time appointed i came , and was allowed to sit at the great square table , among the ministers and commissioners , that can hold about it , either fully or near double , to the number , whether by allusion to the seats and elders mentioned , rev. . but doubling the numbers , i do not determine , only i think it suits not with their crying out so much as they were wont against chief seats in the synagogues , to erect such a stately fabrick , in their meeting-house at that time , it little differing from the manner of a throne , but that it is low upon the floor , covered with green cloath , yet few take liberty to sit there , but the chiefest in respect among them . after some time of universal silence , i stood up , and declared that i had brought a paper , which i desired they might suffer to be read among them ; jasper batt much opposed its reading , but george whitehead stood up , and made a speech , the substance of which was , that i had the advice of the last yearly meeting given me , but instead of hearkening to it ; i printed a paper reflecting on the yearly meeting the last year , and no wise answering the mind of the meeting ; and though i mention not the yearly meeting in that printed paper , called , the causless ground , yet it is apparent i meant them ; for i recite some of their words ; and by that which robert hannay , that came over with me , and owned our proceedings in america , had printed of vile reflections against the last yearly meeting , it is evident i did mean the yearly meeting ; for his printed paper is a commentary upon mine . and now ( said g. w. ) if thou hast any paper to offer to this yearly meeting , to give friends satisfaction , that thou will hearken to the advice of the last yearly meeting , and disown what thou printed in that called , the causless ground , reflecting on friends ; the meeting will hear rhy paper : otherwise i think it ought not to be heard . to which i replied : as in that printed paper i mentioned not the yearly meeting , so there are no words in that paper answered by me , but were spoke by other persons before and after the yearly meeting ; therefore ye cannot prove that i reflected on the yearly meeting . beside , i do not own , that that paper , called , a true account of the proceedings , &c. was the yearly meetings act , but of a prevailing party or faction in it ; and i do not own robert hannay's paper to be any commentary upon mine ; he is of age to answer for himself . i desired him he would not print it ; and had no hand in printing it , as i have oft formerly declared ; which th. elwood wrests , as if my sence were , i did not work it at the press . but this is one of his many other gross perversions of my words . and as to my paper giving satisfaction to the meeting , i cannot say whether it will actually satisfie the meeting ; but i judge there is enough in it to be just cause of satisfaction to them ; but whether it will satisfie i know not ; the event will best prove that ; therefore i desire ye will permit it to be read , i claiming their promise ( without any condition ) to suffer it to be read : so , after some time , they allowed me to read it . after i had read it , and some time of silence interveened , charles marshal ( one that abounds with his prophecies and predictions ; but i know not if ever any of them came to pass ; but surely many have failed apparently ) stood up , and said , he had some few words of exhortation to me , from god ; and they were so weighty on his mind , that he was minded to come to my house , and deliver them ; but finding me there , he would communicate them ; which was , to exhort me to come down to the witness of god in my heart , and return to that which convinced me at first , and gathered me out from among the professors , and leave all these imaginations , and bury them , and be reconciled to friends . after he had ended , i stood up to reply , but there was a great opposition in divers , to hinder me , they saying , there was no need of a reply to a few words of exhortation . i answered , i hoped i might have the like liberty to exhort him , as he had to exhort me ; so way being made , i replyed , that i was come down to the witness of god in my heart , and was not departed from that which convinced me , and was in unity with faithful friends ; but it was my desire , that both i and all of us , might more come down to god's witness in our hearts , and if they did so , they would do justice impartially ; and to be sure he needed very much to come down out of his height ; and for his saying , he had a mind to come to my house and deliver his message , he had time enough , for a year past , to have once visited me ; but he never did ; and if he hapned to pass by me , in the street , scarce to look to me , ( though his former acquaintance ) but with scorn and disdain ; so that i looked on his present exhortation very unseasonable , especially after his many curses and false prophecies poured out against me in divers publick meetings , since the last yearly meeting , as is known to many ; and a little after , the meeting desired me to withdraw , which i did . when i came before them the next day , after some silence , geo. whitehead began , and made a long speech , repeating what he had said the day before , and adding new matter , he said , he was not forward to be the speaker , but it being laid upon him by the meeting , he was willing : he said , i had not only given great dissatisfaction by my printed paper , called , the causless ground , and by my reflecting on friends testimonies in publick meetings , and refusing to hearken to friends advice , to clear the body of the people called quakers , and their ministers , from those gross errors , &c. but by the paper i had given in yesterday , i had greatly increased the dissatisfaction in friends against me , i charging ancient friends in the said paper , and who have been always owned by friends , as faithful ministers , with high charges ; and not them only , but the second days meeting also , and had taken upon me to judge ancient friends and brethren , and the second days meeting ; yea , and all friends that will not say as i say : and for me to oppose my self thus generally to friends , and judge them all , as i had done , was a great dissatisfaction , and did bespeak , or prove me very far declined from friends , and from a true inward sense of truth . after he had spoke a great while , to the same purpose , but chiefly finding fault , that i had excepted against some of the most antient , and most approved friends of the ministry , as not being worthy either to be my judges , or so much as evidences against me ; after some time of silence , in great coolness i replied to him : it cannot be expected , that i can reply to every thing particularly in this long discourse of g. w. it were better to speak but to one thing at once ; i cannot remember all the particulars , but so far as my memory serves me , i shall endeavour , by god's assistance to answer to some of the chief things . i deny that i have as yet judged all friends , i reserve to my self a judgment of discretion , as a private person , the due priviledg of every true christian ; but why is it thought such a crime in me , to lay my complaint before this meeting , against some particular persons , who have greatly injured me , and abused me ; and why ought not my complaint to be heard against them , as theirs is heard against me . the advice of that , called the paper of the last yearly meeting , was that friends should be tender and kind to me , and to avoid reflexions on both sides . it will appear to be great partiality , only to examine , whether i have kept to this advise , or transgrest it ; and not also to examin impartially , whether these that have reflected on me in publick meetings , and have interrupted me in my testimony in meetings , and falsly accused me , as vvilliam penn some weeks ago , did at ratcliff meeting , calling me , in the open meeting , apostate , and an enemy to truth and friends . have i not just cause to except against such , as being either judges , or evidences against me , and particularly against thee george vvhitehead , whom i can sufficiently prove greatly prejudiced against me ? and as for that other part of the advice , said to be given by the last yearly meeting , viz. that i should clear the body of the people called quakers , and their ministers , charged on some in america ; to this i have some things to say ; and first i would have you to consider , that advice is one thing , and command is another , even as paul distinguisheth in the case of single life , when he giveth his advice or judgment , but no command in that case , cor. . , . and surely paul was not so severe , to disown them that gave not obedience to his advice ; and i know no church , nay , not the church of rome , that is so severe as to disown them that will not hearken to her advice simply , if they obey her commands . i find not that the yearly meeting paper , so called , gave me any command in this case , and therefore no transgression . but again , as i have declared in my late paper to you , i want to know what ye mean by the body of the people called quakers , and their ministers ; if only the faithful , i never charged them , and have again , and again cleared them in print ; but if ye mean all that go under the same profession , of quakers , not di●owned by you , i say , that is a most unfair , and unjust thing to require of me ; for as i know not one of many hundreds of that people in divers places , nor their faith , whether it be sound or unsound in these matters , so to my certain knowledg , some of great note among you , yea here sitting before me ( pointing to w. penn , george whitehead , and john whitehe●● but not mentioning their names ) are guilty of some of those gross errors charged on some in america ; and how can i clear them that are thus guilty , until they correct these gross errors in their printed books , that are standing evidences against them ; and what justice could i expect , that these being the leading men at the last yearly meeting , should fairly or sufficiently condemn these mens gross errors in pensilvania , charged on them , when they themselves are guilty of the same , as i offer to prove out of their printed books , never retracted by them . but by this my free discourse , many in the meeting began to be very uneasy . after i had ended , george whitehead began again , and resumed some heads of my discourse ; he told the meeting the word advise had a twofold signification , one when it was relating to an indifferent matter , another when it related to that which was a command of god , to wit , to keep in unity with friends , and in charity and peace , and not to break the peace of the church by contentions , and exposing friends to the world. next , as to my question about what they meant by the body of the people called quakers , he wondred i could pretend ignorance in that , seeing i had printed divers books , in defence of the body of that people , and had answered the books of adversaries against them , which friends well received and encouraged me therein ; and yet after all this , to pretend to be ignorant , what was meant by the body of the people called quakers , was to him very strange . but however , he would tell me what they meant by the body ; first , they meant none who had broke themselves off from friends by their evil contentions and strivings , and walked not in charity and peace with friends ; but by the body they meant all who walked in unity with friends , in the same profession with them , and were charitable and peaceable ; and here he spake much in praise of their unity , that had been preserved among them , notwithstanding of the endeavours of many to break it . to this i replyed , thou mistakes the case , george whitehead , i refused not to hearken to the advice of friends , so far as it was a command of god , but so far as it advised me to do what is contrary to god's command . i own i ought to live in unity , charity , and peace with sound and faithful friends , but it is no breach of that unity to reprove errors publickly preached in our meetings , and to rescue many places of scripture from the perverse and corrupt glosses of ignorant men , and if contending for truth , and hard words be an argument of want of charity , none have been greater contenders , than many of the people called quakers , not only amongst other professions , but even among themselves , before they disowned one another . the advice given me , to clear the body of that people of all gross errors , when i know so many guilty , even such among you , as are owned most to be in unity , is a most unjust thing to require of me , and if for this i must be disowned , i shall rest well satisfied . next , as to the sense of the word , body of the people called quakers , i have been a preacher and writer among that people , and a labourer among them , these thirty years past , and i never understood , that all deserved to be called the body , that did but outwardly profess unity with friends ; i am not such a novice , as not to know that it was the sense of many friends , as well as my sense , that many professed truth with us , and made a profession of unity , that were not in it , and were not in the possession of the life and power of truth , whereof they made an outward profession . and as for the unity of them here away , that some so much boast of , there is no such great cause , so to glory and boast of unity . one thing g. vvhitehead much insisted upon of my being changed , or at least so appearing , since the last yearly meeting , for then i seemed to be very much concerned , and desirous not to be broken off , and disjoynted from friends , but now it appeareth to him , and others , that it is a very indifferent thing with me , to be disowned by friends ; to this i replied , that he did in that , as in other things , mis-represent the case ; it is no matter of indifferency to me now , but of great weight and moment , both with respect to you , and me ; first , with respect to you , if god should permit you to be so blinded , as to disown me , without any just cause on my part , but simply my bearing my faithful testimony to the doctrine of christ , and against the gross errors of some among you ; this to me is no indifferent thing , on your account ; next , as to me , that is no matter of indifferency , for if i be disowned by you , for well doing , as i shall be very sorry for you , so i shall greatly rejoyce on my account , because of the spiritual advantage i hope to receive thereby , relying on the faithful promise of christ , matth. . , . about this time , there being a great commotion in the meeting , by reason of my free and bold speech ( which some are pleased to call passion , and railing ) vvilliam penn stood up , desiring friends to keep down to the sense , for by that they were to judg of this disorderly spirit , or person , who had accused george fox , and other antient friends writings , and may be ( said he ) he may pick up some things here and there in them , to criticise upon . after he had done , i said to him , william penn , thou may be ashamed so falsely to accuse me , in the face of the meeting . i said nothing of george fox , nor had i him at present in my remotest thoughts , i only mentioned some here present ; but george fox is not here , at least , visibly present ; and for your pretending to judg me by your sense , without giving me any fair tryal , or bringing any new matter against me , either in doctrine or practise , to prove against me face to face , by plain external evidence , in you so doing ye will make your selves ridiculous in the face of the world ; we are here set , as upon a stage before god , angels and men ; and if ye pass any judgment against me , by your pretended inward sence , ye will be sufficiently discovered , what unjust men ye are . and i say to thee william penn , it became thee not , so to abuse me in an open meeting at ratcliffe , calling me an apostate , and an open adversary to truth and friends . i am thy elder brother , and was a preacher among the quakers before thou was a quaker ; though thou , and some others , of latter years , have lifted up the heel against me . william penn replied , thou boastest of thy antiquity , which i should not do , were i in thy case . i answered , i boast not of my antiquity , but by thy own words , and the words of g. w. antient brethren should be regarded , and not run down by others of latter years , as thou and others seek to do , though ye have nothing justly against me , i intend not to let it pass , thy publickly accusing me to be an apostate , but to put thee to make it good , in the face of the nation , [ that is his own character , not mine , for i can prove him in the apostacy from some of the chief fundamentals of the christian doctrine . ] vvilliam penn replied , he would answer me in the face of the nation . [ so let this his promise be remembred , the event , i hope , will prove it , how badly he will acquit himself ] . i told him he had sufficiently shown his prejudice against me , and how unsit he was to be my judg. then he began to tell in great heat , what he had born of me , even more than what he might have born of fifty persons , of my greatness . [ but i contend not with him in greatness , but in the cause of truth , which is greater than all his greatness , not only fifty fold , but infinitely ] and how much he had laboured to qualify friends towards me , in order to a reconciliation , and how he had writ in my favour , to them in pensilvania . this last i acknowledged to be true , but how real he was in his favour , either then or since , time has sufficiently discovered , having opposed me , and accused me in several private meetings , as well as of late publickly at ratcliffe , and haranging against me , as i was told , in my absence , at the last yearly meeting , which some present greatly blamed . and some putting vvilliam penn in mind , to give an account to the meeting , of his manner of opposition , to me at ratcliffe meeting , and what just cause he had so to treat me ; he began , and told the meeting what he spoke , by way of opposition to me at ratcliffe , was not till after i have abused , not only him , and friends there present , but had abused friends in general , and had distinguished my self from them , by saying of them , they did put such a gloss on that place of scripture , john . . the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin , and by charging friends in general , and saying , he would prove it out of their books , that they denied , that the blood of christ's humanity did with god expiate for sin , and said vvilliam penn , though i was much spent in the meeting by my former testimony , yet after he had so abused friends in general , i was raised up in such a transport , so that i was carried beyond my self , not knowing whether i was sitting , standing or kneeling ; but i was in no passion , the glorious power of god , which i felt , did so transport me , that i confess i gave judgment against him , and saw no need of staying , till a quarterly or yearly meeting should judg him , seeing he had judged us all , and plainly distinguished himself from us ; at which i confess i was much moved , and had scarce patience to hear him assert such gross falshoods , and to father his transport of sinful passion upon the spirit of god , which god forbid i should ever do . and after william penn had done , i replied , that was most abominable in him , and blaspheming ( though not against the holy ghost , i hope ) to father his most sinful passion ( calling it a transport ) upon the glorious power and spirit of god , a thing but too familiar with him , and many others of his associates . it could be no divine transport falsly to accuse me , of that whereof i was not guilty . but he gives you a most false relation in matter of fact ; he saith , he did not oppose me , and judg me , until after i had not only abused him , and friends there present , but had abused friends in general , and had distinguished my self from them , by saying of them , they did put such a gloss on that place , john . . the blood is the life , and that life is the light within . but i neither charged him , nor any called a quaker , at that time , for putting such a gloss upon that place , though i can sufficiently prove , that both he and others have put that gloss on it at other times . and though i said , i could prove , out of some of their printed books , that they did not own , that the blood of christ's humanity was that which did with god expiate for sin ; yet i charged only some particular persons called quakers , but not the people in general ; therefore his information was false in the main . in the conclusion of my discourse with them , among others , francis camfield pressed much , that silence should be made , and let any who were dissatisfied with the last years judgment , declare their dissatisfaction ; and if they did not , they were not honest men . to which i replied , although it passeth for a proverb , silence is consent , yet ye know it is not always true : how oft in meetings , when things are carried by a prevailing faction , or party , against truth , right and justice , persons will be silent , through fear of displeasing , yet are not satisfied , but go away grieved and wounded ; and this ye are not ignorant of ? what sayest thou to it , francis camfield , knowest thou not that it is so ? finis . a short list of the vile and gross errors of geo. whitehead , john whitehead , and william penn , &c. friendly reader , i design only to give thee at present , this short list of these mens gross and vile errors , opposite to some of the fundamental doctrines of christianity , reserving a more full account of both their errors , and some others in high esteem with them , to another opportunity , with a due and impartial correction of them ; wherein i purpose also , god willing , ( if he shall be pleased to prolong my life and health , and afford me his gracious assistance ) impartially to publish , together with the said correction , some short explications , and also emendations , where i see need , of some words and passages in my former books ; for upon a review of my former books as the book of immed . revel . the book of universal grace , the rector corrected , and truth defended , i freely acknowledge . i have found some passages and words , that not only need some further explanation . but even in some part an emendation and correction . and i thank almighty god , that has not only given me to see them , but has given me that humility of heart , and love to truth , and regard to the salvation of souls , that i can freely both acknowledge and correct my former mistakes , after the example of some worthy ancients . and had these men , that are turn'd my so implacable enemies , for my zealous and free opposing such gross errors that i found them here , as well as others in america , guilty of , and which those in america had suckt in out of their books , had but had the l●●e huminity , and love to truth , and regard to the honour of god , and salvation of souls , instead of hating and excommunicating me , for my opposition to those errors , they would have loved , and embraced , and encouraged me , and gone before me in their good example , to have openly corrected them ; but old self prevailing in them , would not permit them to do any such thing ; a plain evidence they love the praise of men more than the honour of god and salvation of souls ; and the conceit that they had begot the people generally into , that all what they preached and printed was from the infallible spirit ; and that they were altogether of a sound mind and judgment in all parts of christian doctrine , tending so much to support their praise and high esteem and admiration , among their too credulous followers , being to be contradicted , if they should acknowledge their former errors , and unsoundness of faith in these great matters ; this is the pinch and difficulty at present , and rather than acknowledge their fallibility and gross mistakes , and pernicious errors touching fundamental doctrines , they resolved to cloak and cover all these gross errors , both of them in america , as well as their own , and the more safely to hide themselves , they now begin to preach contradictory to their former books , in divers things , but will not own any self-contradiction , pretending there is none . but withal , they mightily charge me with my contradictions to my former books ; to which i can , and do thus answer : . if in any things or words , i do contradict what i have formerly printed , i am willing most freely and cordially to correct my former mistakes ; for i never judged my self absolutely infallible ; but as my own former books have plainly declared , i did judge both my self , and all others now living , liable to mistakes ; and i far rather , upon divine illumination , and sound conviction , contradict my former books , than persist in any known error . but , dly , upon the most impartial search that i have made , i find not any cause to correct either my judgment or books , as touching any of the great doctrines and principles of the christian religion ; nor do i know that i am of another faith in any one principle of christian doctrine , contrary to what i believed , ever since i went under the profession of a quaker , so called . the words and passages generally , if not universally , that i find cause to correct , not being so much relating to the truth of principles of christian doctrine , as to some places of scripture unduly applied , to prove , or defend things that were truths , but did not really prove these truths , either by express words , or yet by any real , and true and proper consequence , or relative to some other lesser and more circumstantial matters . but as to the fundamental , and otherwise great articles of the christian faith , i think my gracious god , that i have been well preserved , and have not found any thing , in any of my former or latter books , contradictory to any one fundamental doctrine of the christian faith ; and i wish i had not found too much just cause to blame others , for their great errors in fundamental doctrines ; and had they been so humble as to have corrected their own errors , i had not thus exposed them ; and if any shall judg it to be an act of prejudice , or malice in me , thus to expose them , after due warning given in private to most of them , and after they have thus publickly disowned me , i have this comfort , that they judg a miss of me , and that nothing of prejudice or malice hath moved me to this undertaking , but love to truth , and men , and next to the honour of god , the regard to my christian name and reputation , which these men have sought to slay , and by so doing , to expose me , and my family to outward want , and necessity ; but i trust in god's mercy , their design will be disappointed , and god will in due time , clear me of that cloud of unjust infamy , they all seek to cover me with , and that he will plead my righteous cause , for to him i do commit it . but now to proceed to give the short list i promised . all sincere christians believe that by that bloody sacrifice of christ upon the cross , through faith in him , they are cleansed from their sins , and that by the blood of christ , by which true believers are said both to be justified , and sanctified , is to be understood the real and true blood of christ's body that suffered on the cross , which george whitehead calleth visible and material blood , and positively denieth that the saints are cleansed by that blood , and giveth divers reasons of his positive denial , ( all which are most false and absurd ) . first , because that blood is not in being , giving for his authority w. burnet , pag. . of his book . dly . because the blood that came out of christ's side , when peirced by the spear , was not shed by christ , the shedding of it was no act of christ , but of a wicked soldier , and therefore not efficacious , or meritorious , for remission of sin , or cleansing from sin. . because , as the new covenant is inward and spiritual , so is the blood of the new covenant , but so was not that material blood , and the material blood of the beasts that were offered in sacrifice under the law , was not a type of that material blood that was shed upon the cross , for that were to say , one type was a type of another , see g. vv. his book called , the light and life of christ within , in answer to w. burnet , a baptist teacher ; and this antichristian and wretched doctrine , he giveth out , as the quakers principles ; withal , telling the quakers , see no need of directing men to the type , for the antitype , viz. neither to the outward temple , nor yet to jerusalem , either to jesus christ , or his blood , knowing that neither the righteousness of faith , nor the word of it doth so direct , rom. . and a little after he saith , and where do the scriptures say , the blood was there ( viz. at jerusalem ) shed for justification , and that men must be directed to jerusalem to it ? see his pag. . , , . agreeable to this is that doctrine published by w. penn in his part of the christian quaker , p. . this seed ( said he ) viz. the one seed christ ( as he calleth him there ) must be inward and spiritual , since one outward thing cannot be the proper figure or representation of another ; nor is it the way of holy scripture so to teach w● the outward lamb shows forth the inward lamb , the jew outward , the jew inward . if this be not as plain a denial of christ to be any outward being , having any bodily existance without us , i know no english . he goes on , at a most antichristian rate , to prove that this seed of the woman that bruiseth the serpent's head , was not christ's body , or what he had from the virgin , strictly considered as such . dly , ( saith he ) it is clear from hence , the serpent is a spirit ; now nothing can bruise the head of the serpent but something that is also internal and spiritual , as the serpent is . but if that body of christ were the seed , then could he not bruise the serpents head in all , because the body of christ , is not so much as in any one , and consequently , the seed of the promise is an holy and spiritual principle of light , life and power , that being received into the heart , bruiseth the serpents head , and because the seed , which cannot be that body , is christ , as testify the scriptures ; the seed is one , and that seed christ , and christ god over all blessed for ever ; we do conclude , and that most truly , that christ was , and is the divine word of light and life , that was in the beginning with god , and was and is god over all , blessed for ever . but as it is readily granted by all true christians , that christ is god , so by christ , as he is called the seed of the woman , and the seed of abraham , in whom all nations of the earth are blessed , is understood , christ not as he is god only , or the word only ; for it is wonderful blindess , or inconsiderateness to say , god is the seed of the woman , or the seed of abraham , without any respect to the word becoming flesh , or taking flesh ; but it is neither the body of christ , strictly considered , nor the soul of christ , strictly considered , without the godhead , nor the godhead strictly considered , without the soul and body of the manhood of christ , that is the seed of the woman , or seed of abraham , but the godhead and manhood joyntly considered , and most gloriously united . and his third argument is as unchristian as the other two , viz. because the seed bruised in good measure , the serpents head , in the holy men and women of all generations , before that outward appearance , this is a truth , but the consequence he draws from it , is a notorious falshood , and a most antichristian doctrine , viz. that therefore the seed of the woman , and the promised seed of abraham , figured by the types and figures of the law , as the pascal lamb , &c. was not any outward thing , ; or person , but an holy and spiritual principle of light , life and power and at this rate christ was not a lamb without , nor a man without , but a lamb within , and man within . and though he pretendeth to overthrow his adversaries opinion , viz. some called baptists and others , yet he fighteth against his shadow , by limiting the question , by the phrase strictly considered , for i know no baptist that ever said , the body strictly considered , i. e. without the soul of the man christ , and without the godhead , is christ , or that promised seed of abraham , and seed of the woman . and though christ did not become the seed of the woman . according to the sense of that place of scripture , gen. . until the fulness of time , that he was made of a woman , yet seeing that divine power , that inwardly did destroy the power of sin , and sathan in true believers , in him that was promised to come , was the real power of him , that was to come , and the gift of it , was the real purchase of his most holy and perfect obedience unto death ; when he came ; it is truly said , that he bruised the serpents head in all true believers in all ages . and thus having shewed the antichristian doctrine of these great champions , that have appeared against me , to give out this nameless bull of excommunication , in some particulars , that are fundamental articles of the christian faith , i shall in short present to the reader 's view , the antichristian doctrine of the third champion , john whitehead , not only contradicting the plain doctrine of the holy scripture , in a fundamental article of faith , but also contradicting his brother william penn ; for william penn saith , the body of christ is not so much as in any one ; but john whitehead saith indeed , that christ hath a body , or is in a body suitable to his spirit , consisting of heavenly flesh and bone ; and doth not deny , that christ has any body now beside his church ; but he confesseth he hath several times denied , that christ hath now a body of flesh and bones circumscript or limited in that heaven which is above , and out of every man on earth . see pag. , . of that book called , the quakers refuge ; the postscript of which is here cited : and he saith plainly , wheresoever the spirit and life of christ is , that is in the body of christ ; and thus , as he owneth that christ has a body that is not the church , yet he owneth no other body ( beside his church ) that is circumscript , and out of every man on earth ; and yet not only w. p. saith , the body of christ is not so much as in any one : a plain contradiction to john whitehead . but george whitehead , in his printed postscript , in answer to w. h. queries , in the book called , the malice of the independent agent rebuked , saith , concerning the flesh ( of christ ) that was raised from the dead , it is so far circumscribed , or incompassed in the heavens , as it 's capable of , and as is proper to it ; and though it be spiritual , and glorious , yet a body ; and therefore not in every place where god is . to be omnipresent is only proper to god , and not to bodies : see how like sampson's foxes , though tied by the tail , their faces look contrary . again , in the collection of stephen crisp's treatises , commended and signed by george vvhitehead , john whitehead , francis camfield , john vaughton , vv. bingley , john field , my chief opposers and adversaries , and others , ye have these following gross and absurd passages , most offensive to christian ears , concerning christ's generation in time , and expiation of sin by his blood. in his treatise called , the backslider reproved , being a reply to one robert cobbet , he blameth the said r. c. for affirming ( pag. . ) that to be the seed of promise , which came by generation , of and from the properties of mary . he further adds , is not that the seed of promise mentioned in isaiah . . who is called the mighty god , the everlasting father , the prince of peace . and what is mary , the mother of god ; this will please the papists well ; and where is thy scripture to prove that jesus the saviour was created . and pag. . he saith , but indeed we never believed him to be produced by coagulation , as r. c. doth , nor by the generation of and from the properties of man in mary , for then some might have declared his generation , which the scripture saith , who can do . obs . . it is denied here by s. c. that that was the seed of promise , which came by generation , &c. this is plain contrary to matt. . . the book of the generation of jesus christ the son of david , the son of abraham . . as it is evident from scripture , so it is the consent of all sound christians , that christ was the son of god by an eternal generation , before the world began , and the son of abraham and david , by generation in the fulness of time , and though this generation was miraculous , yet it was of and from mary ; therefore he is said to be made of a woman . . his denying that jesus the saviour was created , or calling for scripture to prove it doth sufficiently prove , that he understands christ only to be god , and wholly excludes the manhood of christ , from being christ , or any part of him . . that prophecy in isaiah . . unto us a child is born , &c. which is a plain prophecy concerning christ's birth in the fulness of time , he plainly denieth it to be understood of christ as he was born of mary . . i believe with all sound christians , against jews and all infidels that he who was born of mary is that child or son , given , who is both god and man , and yet one lord jesus christ ; and though none can fully and in all respects declare either the generation of christ , before the time of this world was , or his generation in the fulness of time , yet in some degree , and respect , it hath been declared both by the prophets and evangelists and apostles , but none ought to declare it , but holy men , to whom it hath been , in some measure , revealed . . i find that not only s. c. but g. w. quarrels with that expression , calling mary the mother of god , as if it were popery . but are they wiser than the holy ghost , who giveth these names to the child that was to be born according to isaiah's prophecy , wonderful counseller , the mighty god , &c. again , in the same treatise , ( pap . . ) concerning the blood of christ's humanity , he saith . and then again , concerning the blood that saves and does away sin , hear what r. c. in his . pag. saith , my brethren , you are bought with a price , not of blood of bulls and goats , nor heifers of a year old , but by the blood of god. but in his . pag. he is of another opinion , and saith quite contrary ; these are his words , viz. which blood being the blood of his humanity , as he was creature , was that which did with god expiate for sin ; so now which of these two doctrines shall we believe , that we are saved by the blood of god , or blood of the humanity , or shall we suppose them to be both one , and so god to be human , and so the doctrines indifferent . r. c. will do well to clear up these things , or own his condemnation , upon his folly and presumption . obs . there needs little observation to demonstrate how unsound , and unsavory these words are ; but some , to excuse them , say they are only by way of query ; but it is a plain case , he not only querieth , but positively affirmeth , that to say we are bought by the blood of god , is quite contrary to say , which blood , being the blood of his humanity , as he was creature , was that which with god did expiate for sin , so that it is clear , as s. c. did hold them to be two bloods ; he did hold expiation not to be by the blood of the humanity , whereas the blood of the man christ , is called the blood of god , because christ , whose blood it was , was and is both god and man. dly , whereas s. c. putteth r. c. to own his condemnation upon his folly and presumption ; this is no query , but a positive affirmation . now r. c. his supposed folly and presumption charged by s. c. was , that he said the blood of god did expiate for sin , the which was the blood of the humanity of christ : but this is a sound assertion , and to contradict it is folly and presumption , for god hath not blood , strictly considered , being a pure spirit ; but the blood of christ is worthily called the blood of god , because christ is not only man , but god also : and like to this is that place , john . . hereby perceive we the love of god , because he laid down his life for us ; this he is christ , who is not only man , but god also , and yet one lord jesus christ the immanuel . . an additional list to the former . g. whitehead saith in his printed book , the light and life of christ within , &c. pag. . the shedding of that blood let out by the spear , was an act of a wicked man , and the spear an instrument of cruelty , which to lay the meritorious cause , or stress of justification upon , is false doctrine . for there is a great difference betwixt christ's offering up himself by the eternal spirit , a lamb without spot with god , and the acts of wicked men inflicted upon him , as it 's said , by wicked hands they put him to death . obs . here not only he excludes the shedding of that blood , but the death of christ , and all his bodily sufferings from being concerned in that offering , and so chargeth false doctrine upon the holy scriptures , that attributeth the making peace betwixt god and us , to christ by the blood of his cross , called so , because it was that blood that was shed , when he suffered on the cross ; and the scripture saith , he was wounded for our transgressions , &c. and by his stripes we are healed , which doubtless are to be understood of his bodily sufferings , as well as of the inward grief of his soul. and it is a great undervaluing of christ's sufferings and death and blood , that because by wicked hands men put him to death , that therefore his death , sufferings and blood was not meritorious , for though the violent death of the martyrs was not meritorious for remission of our sins , yet it was precious in the sight of god , and had great acceptance with god ; and at this rate of g. w's carnal reasoning ( i am sure the light of christ in him never taught him so to reason ; but a dark carnal spirit , more like a scossing celsus , who wrote slightingly of christ against the christians ) not only all the martyrs sufferings , but all friends sufferings , and his own sufferings also ( who i heard was once whipt for his profession ) was of no value , being inflicted by wicked men. and tho the blood that came out of christ's side , when the soldier peirced him , was shed after he was dead , yet that doth not hinder , but it was of the same value with that blood of his , that was shed before his death , and with all his other sufferings ; and when christ said to his disciples , before his passion , take , eat ; this is my body , and this cup is the new-testament in my blood , shed for the remission of the sins of many , as all protestant and sincere christians hold , as by his body , he meant his real body , whereof the bread was a figure ; so by his blood that was shed , he meant his real blood , whereof what was in the cup was a figure , and by a figure , called , enallage temporis ; he said of his body , this is my body broken for you , &c. and this cup is the new testament in my blood , shed , &c. tho the thing was not then done , but soon after was done ; and tho our blessed lord in his bodily sufferings was wholly passive , yet his obedience to the will of his father , which was a most holy and perfect obedience , in his most holy and perfect resignation , and patience in his exceeding love , both to his father , and also to men in his most profound humility , and all other most excellent virtues , that god did regard in his sufferings chiefly , and that was so highly meritorious , yet the blood , and the shedding of it is mentioned in scripture , because he could not be a true and proper sacrifice , without his blood had been shed , for without shedding of blood there could be no remission ; and though his death and sufferings and blood were all valuable , and precious in god's sight , yet his obedience was chiefly considered , as it is said , because he humbled himself and became obedient unto death , therefore god hath highly exalted him , &c. and his obedience , blood , death and sufferings , are jointly to be considered by us in that great work of our redemption . again , in the forecited book , pag. . he excuseth these most blasphemous words of sol. eccles , which were , the blood that was forced out of him by the soldiers , after he was dead , who before that bowed his head to the father , and gave up the ghost , i did say that was no more than the blood of another saint . g. whitehead to excuse this gives three answers . . he saith , now to these words , viz. no more than the blood of another saint , his intent was , as to papists , and you whose minds are carnal , who oppose the light within . secondly , he saith , and also simply , as to the essence of the blood ; which you do not say is still in being , but not as to the spiritual virtue which is still in being . and a little after he argueth thus in the same page : and seeing that the children had flesh and blood , and christ took part of the same , if the same , how was it more ; or another simply as to the matter of blood ? his third answer is , that he owns the blood shed in one sense , was more then the blood of another saint ( tho not in the matter of it as to the visible ) in that it had a peculiar signification , &c. obser . as to his first answer , that his intent was , that that blood was no more than the blood of another saint , as to papists , and baptists , whose minds are carnal , who oppose the light within ; here is a plain denyal , that christs death , and blood shedding was of value for all men ; papists , and baptists , and all others are excluded , whose minds are carnal , and who oppose the light within . we had wont to blame the narrowness of them , that said christ dyed not for all men ; and shed not his blood for all , but g. w. here excludeth papists , and baptists , and all others whose minds are carnal , who oppose the light within from any other benefit by christs blood , than what they have by the blood of any other saint ; but have we not preached and printed that the light within is a benefit that papists and baptists , yea , jews , turks and all mankind , have by christ's obedience unto death , which we have proved from rom. . , . and other places of scripture ; but this benefit all men have not by the death and blood of any other saints . to his d . answer , that that blood of christ was no more than the blood of another saint , simply as to the essence of the blood ; by his rate of arguing , he might excuse it , if s. e. had said , it was no more than the blood of a common thief , ( as it was reported , he or some other did say ) seeing the blood of a saint , and the blood of a common theif , simply considered , differ not as to the visible , or matter of it . but i say , as the blood and body of a saint differeth much from the blood and body of a wicked man , because the body and blood of a saint is sanctified , so is not the body and blood of a wicked man , while such , so the blood and body of christ differeth from that of all saints , by way of excellency , and that in a very high degree , beyond what can be expressed or conceived , not only that it was never defiled with sin , but for other great reasons . and tho christ took flesh and blood , and the true nature of man , yet that proveth not , that as man , christ had not that which was more excellent , even belonging to his body and blood as well as to his soul , far above all other men , his very body being miraculously conceived , and having no immediate father , as man , but god. as to his d. answer , that is as weak and impertinent as the other two ; he owns that in one sense , the blood shed was more , in that it had a peculiar signification , &c. but this is but a small preference , to say in one sense , it had a peculiar signification , the blood of the beasts in one sense had a peculiar signification , that were offered in sacrifices under the law , being types and typical significations of christ's blood. but the blood of christ that was outwardly shed , had not a typical signification , as the blood of beasts had , but was a real part of the true attonement , together with his body and soul ; and if he had any knowledg of the great mistery of that blood , and any due value for it , he would not only have owned it to be more than the blood of another saint , in one sense , but in a manifold sense , or rather every way , having the preference ; the blood as well as the body of the saints , is corruptible , and doth corrupt ; but neither the body nor blood of christ did corrupt ; and that g. w. insists so much on that argument , that because that blood is not in being , which w. b. had confest , that therefore it is not meritorious of justification ; this is but argumentum ad hominem at most against w. b. ; but what saith g. w. to it , is that blood in being , or did it corrupt ? let him speak out plainly , and not shift or quible , as his manner too much hath been in controversy ; and if nothing can merit , or be efficacious , which is not in being ; this doth as much render christ's death , and bodily sufferings ineffectual , but only for that little time that he suffered ; and because christ's death and bodily sufferings are now at an end ; christ having once died , dieth no more : but the scripture saith , that christ by one offering hath for ever perfected them that are sanctified , and that was the offering his body once for all ( his blood being also a part of the offering ) together with his soul , and this offering was effectual in all ages before he died , as well as it is now effectual , and will be to the worlds end , to all that truly believe , and obey his gospel . but what little true knowledg , either g. w. or w. p. hath of the mistery of christ's flesh and blood , or of christ without us , doth sufficiently appear from two citations more ; i shall bring one of g. w. another of w. p. in the second part of the christian qnaker , done by g. vv. pag. . vve really own , ( saith he ) and confess to the blood of christ , both in the history , and in the mystery , &c. by this it plainly appeareth , that he did not own the blood of christ , as it was ourwardly shed , to have any mistery in it , that blood outwardly shed , was blood in the history , but the life or spirit , or light within , that 's blood in the mistery . next vv. p. in his answer to john faldo , findeth great fault with him ; see his rejoynder , p. . , . for his holding it to be a truth , that christ without is a great mistery , who died as a malefactor , by his death reconciled to god , &c. yea , and more misterious , than for christ to be in the gentiles ( rightly understood . ) but in opposition to john faldo's assertion , vv. p. saith , in way of reply , the history is made the greatest mistery , and to believe the one , matter of greater difficulty , than to experience the other . and p. , . he saith further , it is strange , that should be reputed most misterious , which was the introduction to the mistery , and these transactions counted most difficult , that were by the divine wisdom of god , ordained as so many facile representations , of what was to be accomplished in man. in short ( saith he ) it is to lessen if not totally to exclude the true mistery of godliness , which is christ manifested in his children , their hope of glory . obs . it is plainly evident , that they make not only christ's works and sufferings without us , but history ; but even christ himself without us , is to them but history ; and to believe in him without us , is but history , and an historical faith. but if these men were not extreamly dark and blind , they could see and own , that as christ within is a mistery , and a great mistery ( and if john faldo did deny it , i shall be far from justifying or excusing him ) so christ without us is not only a mistery , but a greater mistery , or rather , as christ both without us and within us , is but one christ ; so one exceeding great , and glorious mistery ; but if we may distinguish this one great mistery , as it were in two parts , as we commonly distinguish a two fold appearance of christ , one without us in the flesh , another within us , by his spirit , and yet but one christ , so we ought to own and confess , if we have any spiritual sight and knowledg of christ , that christ without us , as he is both god and man , god manifest in the flesh , in whom dwelleth all fulness of grace and truth , is a far greater part of the mistery , than christ within us , for the fulness dwelt , and still dwelleth in the man christ without us ; but the best of the saints that ever lived , have but their respective measures , and the mistery of christ , his being both god and man , his miraculous conception and birth , his being that universal offering for our sins , his death , resurrection and ascension , and continual intercession for us in heaven , and his continually giving forth , and sending down to his saints on earth , new and fresh influences of life , light and grace ; yea , and by what he conveyeth into mens hearts of his power and virtue , both to begin and carry on the work of regeneration in men , what a complex of misteries is here ? who can sufficiently declare them ? or who , that is not grosly ignorant of the inward work of regeneration , can prefer the inward work of regeneration ( tho a great and glorious mistery ) to christ , as he is both god and man without us , who hath the spirit given him without measure ? is not this to prefer the measure to the fulness , the stream to the fountain , the effect to the cause , the gift to the giver , and the life in the hands and feet , and other members , to the life in the head , and the sap and vertue that is in the branches to that which is in the tree and root ? and seeing the work of regeneration and sanctification in the saints , is a great mistery ; must we not own him who is the author , and great cause of it , to be greater ? unless vv. penn will say , that it is not christ without us , but only christ within us , that is the author and cause of regeneration . indeed if he can prove that only christ within men , is the cause of regeneration , he hath gained his point ; but this he will never be able to do , and he may expect as soon , to perswade men of understanding , that the sun is no cause of the generation of herbs , and plants in the earth , being without them ; as that christ without men , is not the cause of the work of regeneration within ; for if we ascribe the work of regeneration within men , to christ , or to his spirit , light and life within , as the measure that measure within , comes from the fulness in the man christ without them , yea and from the man christ , in whom the fulness dwelleth , and the measure acteth in the saints , by the power and strength of the fulness thereof , for and vv. p. or g. vv. to suppose the mistery of regeneration , can either be experienced , witnessed , or understood , without the mistery of christ without us , argueth as great ignorance in them , as if one should think , he can demonstrate the generation of herbs and plants , springing out of the earth without the sun but it is a further instance of vv. penn his great ignorance in the mistery of christ , that by his words above named ; he maketh christ without , but the introduction to the mistery , viz. christ within , as to say , the life in the head , is but an introduction to the life in the members , and thus the members shall be more valuable than the head. and lastly , it is a most ranting strain in him , to say , that what christ did , and suffered without men , which he calleth transactions , to be so many facile representations of what was to be accomplished in man. thus christ without , is made but a type , figure and shell , and the inward is made the kernel and antitipe . but was there not more in christ , of the inward , incomparably , than in all men ? for what of the kernel or substance any or all the saints have , they have it out of him , and by and through him , even the man christ without them . and whereas it is plainly evident from vv. penn his words abovementioned , that he will not have the manifestation of god in the flesh of christ , to be the true mistery of godliness ; but christ manifested in his children , , the hope of glory ; he sets things in opposition , which ought not to be opposed , but joyned together ; and he perverts , most grosly , these words of the apostle paul , ( even as some of his late brethren have done ) tim. . . without controversy great is the mistery of godliness , god manifest in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. jumbling two places of scripture together , and confounding their sense , as if because that place , colos . . . mentioneth christ in you , the hope of glory , that therefore by god manifest in the flesh , &c. of which paul saith , without controversy , great is the mistery of godliness ; is to be understood christ in the saints , and not christ without us , as he was both god and man ; whereas it is most evident , that place is to be understood of the man christ , in whom was and is the most glorious manifestation of god that ever was , and no otherwise of christ , in the saints , but by way of concomitancy or consequence , because whatever manifestation of the life virtue or measure of the spirit of christ , any of the saints have , they have it out of the fulness of the spirit , and of grace and truth , that dwelleth in the glorified man christ jesus , and out of his fulness , it floweth into their , is water in the cteeks floweth into them out of the ocean , or fulness or water that is in the sea ; and as the outward light we have on earth , daily floweth from the fountain and fulness of light , that is in the outward sun , and this the last clause of that verse , tim. . . plainly proveth , viz. received up into glory , manifestly pointing at christ's ascention into heaven , and the glory he is stated into . and let w. p. plainly answer me , whether he judgeth that the manifestation of god in the man w. p. or in the man g. w. or any other man whatsoever is greater , or a greater mistery , than the manifestation of god , in the man christ jesus , as his words plainly import , at least by a natural and necessary consequence , because he saith , the one is but the history , and the introduction to the mistery ; but the other , viz. god and christ in w. p. and other saints , is the mistery it self , and christ without , and all that he did and suffered without men , is but so many facile representations of what was to be accomplished in man. thus as the scenographical description of an house , is far inferior to the house , being but a facile representation of it , a mean cheap thing , that ye may have for a penny and less , and the very making the draught of it , a facile thing , easily made , with little , either labour or cost , whereas the house is a great work , not built but with great labour and cost , so christ without , and those transactions of his , are but facile representations of what was to be accomplished in man ; if this be not to make the man w. p. and what is accomplished , or to be accomplished in the man w. p. and other saints of more value and consideration , than the man christ jesus of nasareah ; and than all his most worthy and most highly valuable actions , and sufferings , which w. p. calleth transactions , i appeal to all sincere christians . how much more christian would it have been in w. p. to have said , what was done , or accomplished in the man christ jesus of nasareth , and his most holy and perfect obedience , both active and passive ( so far as is imitable by us , and so far as men are capable of being made conformable thereunto ) is that original , and most excellent exemplar , and archetipe patern , according to which , the saints are made conformable , and the virtues and fruits of the spirit , which are accomplished in the saints , and remain to be fully accomplished in them , answer to these virtues in christ , by way of analogy and similitude , so that both these in him , the head , and in them the members , are real and substantial virtues , but more eminently and transcendently greater in the man christ , than in any other men , however so holy , that ever were , or shall be . and as the saints , which are christ's members , are to be made throughly conformable to him , both in his virtues , and active obedience , so in his death and sufferings , so as to be crucified with him , buried with him , risen with him , &c. yet this is not to be so understood , as if what was accomplished in the man christ , without us , above sixteen hundred years ago , is but the figure , or type ( or history and facile representation , as w. p. phraseth it , ( more ranter like , than a sober christian ) of what is to be accomplished in man. and tho these called socinians do greatly err in not owning christ to be god , as well as man , in the two fold nature of his godhead and manhood , most wonderfully united , and so greatly derogate from his great and high dignity , yet i know not that any of them all have such mean and low thoughts of the man christ , as to hold , that the manifestation of god in the man christ , was a less mistery , and of less consideration than the manifestation of god in holy men . and if w. p. thinks to evade , by answering , that tho the manifestation of god , in the man christ , is greater than the manifestation of god in the man w. p. simply as in it self considered ; yet as to w. p. and as to his spiritual advantage , and well being , and spiritual blessings , the manifestation in w. p. is greater , and of greater consideration than the manifestation that was , or is in the man christ jesus . but if he take to this evasion , he runs himself into as great an error as the former , and makes himself not a member of christ the head , but an independent man , neither having , nor needing any dependance on the man christ , who considered even as man , as truely as god , is the head of all the faithful ; and if he take to this error , he will be a compleat deist , that professeth a dependency on god , but not on the man christ , whereas every true christian doth believe , and profess a dependency , both on god , and on christ , and as god is the head of the man christ , so they believe that christ is the head of his church , and ( de jure ) the head of all men . and therefore as their faith respects god , by which they exercise a continual dependency on him , so the same faith respects the man christ now glorified in heaven , as a real object without them , as the way , and conduit of conveyance , by and through whom , they daily receive new and fresh supplies of grace from him , who is the god of all grace , the father of lights , and father of mercies . and whereas the saints dependence on christ is resembled in scripture , to that of the members on the head , and of the branches on the vine , let w. p. tell me whether his philosophy ( or not to use that offensive word , which seemeth to many of his ignorant brethren , with whom ignorance is the mother of devotion , as too plainly appeareth by their crying out so much against knowledg , without a true distinction as a sort of witchcraft , or the forbidden fruit ) or rather his understanding and common sense of a man , teacheth him not , that the manifestation of life in the head , is great , and more to the members , ( as well as in it self ) than what is of life in the members , also the life n●● the tree , or root , is more to the branches , as well as in it self , than the life in the branches , and water without w. p's . belly , is more to w. p. ( as well as it is in it self , in rivers or fountains ) than as it is in w. p's . belly , for let him have ever so much water , or other refreshing liquor , that quencheth his thirst in his belly , he will thirst again , and need more from the fountain without him , than what he hath at present in him . but if he say ( as some ignorant persons have said ) wresting and misapplying christ's words , john . he that drinketh of the water that i shall give him , shall never thirst , but the water that i shall give him , shall be in him a well of water springing vp into everlasting life ) he has the fountain in him , so needs not to have his faith exercised in christ as an object without him . i answer , as i grant all true believers have the water of life , as a fountain in them , but this fountain they receive it from out of the great fountain , and fulness that is in the man christ without them , and this fountain and well of living water in them is daily encreased , and multiplied in them , by what comes into them from out of the said fulness in the man christ . and these words , colos . . . christ in you the hope of glory , perverted and misapplied by william penn , do not prove that the manifestation of god in his children , is greater , or a greater mistery , or a greater concern , and ground of consolatiion to them , than what is in christ without them ; for if christ in us be our hope of glory , then we have not all in us , that we hope for ; hope looks beyond what is presently enjoyed or possessed , to the stock and full inheritance , that is treasured up in christ , and is not in us , but in him , and what we , or the best of men have in them , is but the earnest and first fruits of glory , but not the full possession of it , and this full possession is laid up for us in christ our head , who is in heaven , for we read in scripture , not only of christ in the saints , their hope of glory , but also of the hope which is laid up for them in heaven , colos . . . and surely that hope is laid up for us in christ , who is in heaven , even that heaven into which christ hath bodily ascended ; and this heaven is without men , and cannot be confined to the narrow bounds of mens breasts , unless william penn will turn ranter in this also , and not allow that christ did bodily ascend into any heavens without men ; of which some of his former books have given too great cause of suspicion ; representing a local heaven , as a carnal mahomotan notion ; and to deny the locality of heaven and hell , that is void , of outward place , is to him no very offensive opinion . see his rejoynder to jo. faldo , page , compared with . i have divers other gross and vile errors wherewith to charge george whiteaead and william penn , in reference to the resurrection of the body , and christ's satisfaction ; and particularly george vvhitehead , in reference to christ's outward coming in his glorified body or person , at the general judgment , which i can sufficiently prove in divers of his former books he hath denied , let him quible , and shift as he will , to defend himself ; and for all his confession to god almighty in prayer , as he was heard lately by me , and hundreds more , at the publick meeting in grace-church-street , in prayer , saying , lord thou knowest we received our gifts of ministry in a spirit of charity and a sound mind ; yet by what i have already proved him guilty of , and others of his brethren ; and doubt not i shall yet further prove him , and them guilty ; it is manifest he told to god in his prayer a great untruth , if not a wilful lye ; but i shall keep these others to a further reserve . and now i propose this just demand to vvilliam penn , that when at ratcliffe meeting , some few weeks ago , he called me an apostate , and judged me so to be in the name of the lord , that he give me an opportunity , either at ratcliff-meeting , where he passed this sentence in a publick meeting against me , or at grace-church-street meeting , or any other publick meeting of the people called quakers , in or about london , to make good his charge against me , and let him signify to me the time and place , where he will make it to appear , that his charge against me is true , or retract his false charge , and confess his error ; otherwise , not only i , but many others , yea , all that rightly understand the case , will say , as vvilliam penn , is not a sound christian in his doctrine , no more is he in his morals ; and the baptists , so called , will rise in judgment against him , who heard his complaint against thomas hicks , if he will not hear this my just complaint against him . . day of the d. month , . g. keith . finis . the christianity of the people commonly called quakers, asserted. being a brief account of their faith in relation to divers matters where-in their christian belief is questioned. published in behalf of the people of god called quakers by some of them. whitehead, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the christianity of the people commonly called quakers, asserted. being a brief account of their faith in relation to divers matters where-in their christian belief is questioned. published in behalf of the people of god called quakers by some of them. whitehead, george, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. s.n.], [london? : printed in the year, . by george whitehead. place of publication conjectured by cataloger. identified on umi microfilm (early english books, - ) reel as wing ( nd ed.) w . cf. wing ( nd ed.) w , which implies "quakers, vindicated" in title. reproduction of the original in the friends house library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- apologetic works -- early works to . quakers -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rachel losh sampled and proofread - rachel losh text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christianity of the people commonly called quakers asserted . being a brief account of their faith in relation to divers matters wherein their christian belief is questioned . published in behalf of the people of god called quakers by some of them . luke . . blessed are ye when men shall hate you , and when they shall separate you from their company , and shall reproach you , and cast out your name as evil for the son of man's sake . acts after the way which they call heresie , so worship i the god of my fathers . printed in the year , . the preface to the reader . there hath been of late years many aspersions cast upon vs , whereby the people in some places ( especially in the west of this nation of scotland ) have been much stirred up against us , and much hard and cruel vsage have we suffered ; and have often been in danger of our lives , both in our meetings and in the streets , and sometimes in our own houses : and since the sitting of the late general assembly at edinburgh , what a mighty clamour hath been among the people through a great part of the nation concerning us ? some saying , we must be all excommunicated , and that none must converse or deal with us , others saying , we must all be banished , the rude multitude that abuse us often threatning us with the general assembly , and taking occasion from thence ( especially in our meeting at edinburgh ) to be more wicked , prophane and loose in their carriage towards us than they were before : and the only reason that is given for this confused noise about us , and for all the cruel and vnchristian vsage we meet with , is it not the same that was alledged against the lord and his people by their adversaries and persecutors in former ages ? that is , under pretence of being deceivers , deluders , hereticks , schismaticks , possessed with the devil & c. ? did not the chief priests and pharisees tell people that christ was a deceiver , and that he had a devil ? john. . . mat. . . luke . . john . . and did not the people revile and persecute him under that pretence ; and were not the apostles accounted deceivers , turners of the world upside-down , and deemed unworthy to live upon the earth ; cor. . . acts . . and was not paul called a pestilent fellow , a mover of sedition , a ring-leader of the sect of the nazarines ? &c. acts . . acts . . and were not all the revilings , scoffings , stonings , imprisonments , and other hard usage that they met with , inflicted upon them under those hatefull names and epithites aforementioned ; whereby the dark priests , benighted elders and proud pharisees and others stirred up the people against them ? and did not the heathens put wild-beasts skins upon the christians to make them appear like beasts that the dogs might be stirred up to devour them ? and was it not under the black and detestable names of hereticks ; deluders , schismaticks , ( and sometimes of ) socerers ( or witches ) that the popish clergy incensed the people against the ancient protestants , prohibiting them all trade and commerce , exposing them to cruel scoffings and revilings , and at last murthering many thousands of them ( as may be seen at large in the books of martyrs ) was ever christ or his apostles found in such cruel practices or stirring people up thereunto . did he not rebuke those disciples that desired the destruction of some that would not receive him , telling them they knew not what spirit they were off , and that he was not come to destroy mens lives but to save them ? joh. . , . and were not the stoners , abusers , scoffers and envious murthering persecutors , and the priests and teachers that stirred them up thereunto , such as were filling up the measure of their iniquity and drawing down the righteous and terrible judgments of god upon themselves ? mat. . , , , , acts. . . . so our earnest desire is , that they who have shown themselves so eager to be found in such cruel practices in this our age , may seriously consider what spirit they are off , and whose steps they are treading in , and that they may repent before it be too late . now we having often been wrongfully accused ( and from thence hatefull names put upon us ) with denying the trinity , the holy scriptures , that we undervalue the merits and sufferings of christ ; some saying , we deny his divinity , others saying , we deny his humanity , the ordinances , the resurrection , and the great day of judgement &c. we have therefore found a concern upon us to publish a brief relation of what our belief hath been & still is concerning those & other weighty points of christian doctine , & so leave it to the serious consideration of the empartial reader what ground there is for that mighty clamour that hath been and yet continues against us , and whether it be not like theirs of old that cryed out , men of israel help ? &c. acts . . the christianity of the people commonly called qvakers asserted . being a brief account of their faith in relation to several weighty matters , wherein their christian belief is questioned . question . what 's your belief concerning the blessed trinity , as our term is ? answer , our belief is , that in the unity of the god-head there is father , son , and holy ghost , being those three divine witnesses that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy spirit ; and that these three are one , according to holy scripture testmony . mat. . . joh. . . quest. do you believe the divinity and humanity of jesus christ the eternal son of god , or that jesus christ is truely god and man ? answ. yes , we verily believe that jesus christ is truly god and man , according as holy scripture testifies of him , god over all blessed for ever , he true god and eternal life , the one mediator between god and men , even he man christ jesus . joh. . . . rom. . . joh. . . tim. . . quest. do you believe and expect salvation , and justification , by the righteousness and merits of jesus christ , or by your own righteousness or works ? answ. by jesus christ his righteousness , merits and works , and not by our own , god is not indebted to us for our deservings , but we to him for is free grace in christ jesus , whereby we are saved through faith in him not of our selves ) and by his grace inabled truly and acceptably to serve and ●ollow him as he requires ; he is our all in all , who worketh all in us ●at is well pleasing to god. rom. . . eph. . . . quest. do you believe remission of sin , and redemption through the sufferings , death , and blood of christ ? answ. yes , through faith in him as he suffered and died for all men , ●ave himself a ransom for all , and his blood being shed for the remission ●f sins ; so all they who sincerely believe and obey him , receive the benefits ●d blessed effects of his suffering and dying for them , they by faith in his ●ame , receive and partake of that eternall redemption which he hath ●tained for us , who gave himself for vs that he might redeem us from 〈◊〉 iniquity ; he died for our sins , and rose again for our justification ; and if 〈◊〉 walk in the light as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another ; and the blood of jesus christ his son cleanseth us from all sin , joh. . . cor. . joh. . . quest. do you believe and own the divine offices of jesus christ in his church ? answ. yes , verily we sincerely believe and own christ , not only as he is the light of the world , enlightning every man coming into it ; but also that he is given for a leader , and for a commander . and that he is both king , priest , and prophet to and over his church and people . he is the minister of the sanctuary which the lord pitched , and not man , and we are to hear him in all things . isa. . . zech. . . heb. . . deut . . . heb. . . quest. do you believe or own baptism as essential to christianity , or necessary to salvation , and for the ingrafting us into christ and his church ? answ. we believe and are fully perswaded , that baptism which is essential to christianity , and the saving baptism , or the cause without which none can be true christians , or saved , is the inward spiritual washing of regeneration by the word of life . this is the saving baptism into christ and his church , which produceth the answer of a good conscience towards god , of which the outward was a figure , pet. . . this is that one baptism of christ by one spirit into that one body , whereof christ is head. eph. . . as to dipping or sprinkling infants , or young children we find no precept or precedent in holy scripture for the practice thereof , and therefore we cannot think our not believing it essential ( or necessary ) to salvation , or making christians ; a sufficient argument to prove us no christians ( unless it can be proved that none are saved without it , and that all are saved that have it . ) considering also what 's positively affirmed in the articles of the church of england as in the th . article , that whatsoever is not read in the holy scriptures , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any man , that it should be believed as an article of the faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation . and in the th . article , that the church ought not to decree or enforce anything against or besides holy writ , to be believed for necessity of salvation ; and in article . that things ordain'd by general councils as necessary to salvation , have neither strength nor authority , unless that they be taken out of holy scripture . and in the westminster confession of faith professed by the kirk of scotland chap. . it is said . god alone is lord of the conscience and hath left it free from the doctrins and commandments of men , which are in any thing contrary to his word [ i. e. ] the holy scripture or beside it , if matters of faith or worship so that to believe such doctrines or obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray true liberty of conscience , and the requiring of an implicit faith , and an absolute and blin●● obedience . quest. do you believe or own the lords supper , either as a sign of the love that christians ou●ht to have among themselves , or as a seal of the saints communion and commemoration of christs death for us , or as figurative of christs body and blood spiritually received by faith ? answ. the supper of the lord we own , and tenderly consider in a twofold sense , . in the figure . . in the substance . . that our lord jesus christ at his supper with his disciples , did eat the passover ( which was for the fulfilling and consummation of the fasts under the law : ) see luke . and at this supper he did take and minister bread and the cup to his disciples ( for there was no transubstantiation ) saying , this do in remembrance of me ; and said the apostle , as often as ye shall eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye shew the lords death till he come , cor. . after this they did more clearly know his coming : and christ after the spirit ; jesus christ in them . cor. . . and . . . and christ sald to his disciples , i will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine until that day i drink it new with you in my fathers kingdom , matth. . and likewise of the bread , i will not any more eat thereof , until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of god , luke . . and he further said , i appoint unto you a kingdom as my father hath appointed to me that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom , &c. luke . . in these things we believe he spoke mysteriously , and that every member of his spiritual church , doth daily spiritually partake of his body and blood by faith , as the cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the blood of christ ? and the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of christ ? for we being many are one bread , and one body , for we are all partakers of that one bread , cor. . , . . the son of god saith , behold , i stand at the door and knock , if any man hear my voice , and open the door , i will come into him , and will svp with him , and he with me , rev. . . and wisdom calleth to the simple , come , eat of my bread , aud drink of my wine , prov. . , . and saith christ , the bread of god is he that cometh down from heaven , and giveth life unto the vvorld , i am that bread of life ; my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed , he that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and i in him , john . we believe that all who thus do truly partake of christ by faith , are in true communion and love among themselves , which they do want , who are only in the outward observations of sign and shadows . quest. do you own the seals of the new covenant ? answ. yes , as the new covenant is spiritual , so are the seals thereof ( as they may be termed ) proper to it , and therefore we believe they stand not in any external shadow , sign or figure , but in spirit and substance , the seals of the new covenant ( which is inward and spiritual ) must needs be the evidence , testimony and work of the holy spirit , giving us assurance through faith of our share and interest in that covenant . see what the holy scripture saith in this case ; see cor. . . who hath also sealed us and hath given us the earnest of the spirit in our hearts . ephes. . . after that ye believed ye were sealed with that holy spirit of promise . and ephes. . . and grieve not the holy spirit of god whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption . our christian sense and belief in these matters may be briefly summ'd up in what follows , viz. . we believe , that the spiritual appearance , and living enjoyment of christ in spirit , is above all outward signs , shadows , or figures , or 〈◊〉 remembrance only of him thereby . and that christ more clearly discovers himself by his spirit in the new covenant , then by any outward representations in the old , or thereunto appertaining . . that the one baptism of the spirit , is a seal or confirmation of the new covenant to true believers , and of them in it ; and so is their spiritual eating and drinking with him in his kingdom a certain assurance , seal or evidence of their spiritual communion with him , and in him. . as all outward shadows and figures were of a decreasing nature , so there is the substance thereof , which they pointed at , and wherein they ended , though the names given to the shadows were carried along to the substance also , that it might the more plainly appear in scripture how the shadows were fulfilled in the substance christ ; as in the old covenant there was outward circumcision of the flesh ; in the new , there is the inward circumcision of the spirit . in the old , there was diverse washings or baptisms heb : : : in the new , the one baptism of christ ; in the old , the feast o● the outward passover kept with unleavened bread , and other feasts observed &c. in the new covenant , jesus christ is our passover , and the feast i● to be kept with unleayened bread of sincerity and truth ; and here the o● bread of life is known and received . . we do not read nor find in scripture , that one outward type o● shadow , was a type of another type outward , but alwayes of the thing typified ot shadowed forth , which was the substance and end of that shadow or type , as may be shewen at large , if any undertake to shew us any shadow or thing that is figurative in its own nature ( mentioned in scripture ) which they suppose we cannot shew the substance of , under the same name or title . quest. do you believe and own the holy scriptures contained in the books of the old and new testament , to be given by divine inspiration , and to contain all matters of doctrine and testtmonie , &c. necessarie to be believed and practiced in order to salvation , and peace with god ? answer . yes , we do , and by the assistance of the grace and good spirit of god , which gives the true understanding of the mind of god , and meaning of holy scripture , we always desire to live in the faith , knowledge and practice of them in all things appertaining to life and godliness , holy scripture being given by divine inspiration , is profitable for doctrine , correction , and instruction , that the man of god may be perfect , thorowly furnished unto every good work , able to make the man of god wise unto salvation , through faith in christ jesus . a further declaration of what our christian belief and profession hath been and still is , in respect to jesus christ , the only begotten son of god , his suffering , death , resurrection , glory , light , power , great-day of judgment &c. we sincerely profess faith in god , by his only begotten son jesus christ , as being our light and life , our only way to the father . a that god created all things , he made the worlds by his son jesvs christ ; he being that powerful and living word of god by whom all things were made , b and that the father the word and the holy spirit are one in divine being , inseparable ; one true living and eternal god ▪ blessed for ever . c yet that this word or son of god in the fulness of time , took flesh ▪ became perfect man according to the flesh , descended and came of the seed of abraham and david d but was miraculously conceived by the holy ghost and born of the virgin mary e and also further declared to be the son of god with power according to the spirit of sanctification by the resurrection from the dead . f that in the word ( or son of god ) was life and the same life was the light of men , and that he was and is that true light , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world g and therefore that men are to believe in the light that they may become children of the light h hereby we believe in christ the son of god as he is the light and life within us , and wherein we must needs have sincere respect and honour to ( and belief in christ as in his own unapproachable and incomprehensible glory and fulness i as he is the fountain of life and light , and giver thereof unto us ▪ christ as in himself , and as in us being not divided . and that as man christ dyed for our sins and rose again , and was received up into glory in the heavens k he having in his dying for all bee● that one and great universal offering and sacrifice for peace . atonement and reconciliation between god and man ; l and he is the propitiation not for sins only but for the sins of the whole world m we were reconciled by his death , but saved by his life . that jesus christ who sitteth at the right hand of the throne of th● majesty in the heavens , yet is he our king , high priest and prophet n 〈◊〉 his church , a minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the lord pitched and not man : o he is intercessor and advocate wit● the father in heaven and there appearing in the presence of god for us p being touched with the feeling of our infirmities , sufferings and sorrows , and also by his spirit in our hearts , he maketh intercession according to the will of god , crying abba father . q for any whom god hath gifted r and called sincerely to preach faith in the same christ , both as within and without us , cannot be to preach two christs , but one and the same lord , jesus christ s having respect to those degrees of our spiritual knowledge of christ jesus in us t and to his unspeakable fulness and glory u as in himself in his own intire being wherein christ himself and the least measure of his light and life as in us or in mankind are not divided nor separable , no more than the sun is from its light. and as he ascended far above all heavens that he might fill all things x his fulness cannot be comprehended or contained in any finite creature y but in some measure known and experienced in us as we are capable to receive the same ; as of his fulness we have received grace for grace , christ our mediator received the spirit not by measure , z but in fulness but to every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of christ a that the gospel of the grace of god should be preached in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost b being one c in power , vvisdom , and goodness , and indivisible ( or not be divided ) in the great work of mans salvation . we sincerely confess ( and believe ) in jesus christ both as he is true god and perfect man d and that he is the author of our living faith in the power and goodness of god , as manifest in his son jesus christ , and by his own blessed spirit ( or divine unction ) revealed in us e whereby we inwardly feel and taste of his goodness f life and vertue ; so as our souls live and prosper by and in him . and the inward sense of this divine power of christ and faith in the same , and this inward experience is absolutely necessary to make a true sincere and perfect christian in spirit and life . that divine honor & worship is due to the son of god c & that he is in true faith to be prayed unto , and the name of the lord jesus christ called upon as the primitive christians did d because of the glorious union or oneness of the father and the son e and that we cannot acceptably offer up prayers or praises to god the father , not receive a gracious answer or blessing from him but in and through his dear son christ. that christ's body that was crucified was not the god-head , yet by the power of god was raised from the dead , and that the same christ that was therein crucified , ascended into heaven and glorie f is not questioned by us . his flesh saw no corruption g it did not corrupt , but yet doubtless his body was changed into a more glorious h and heavenlie condition that 't was in when subject to divers sufferings on earth ; but how and what manner of change it met withall after it was raised from the dead , so as to become such a glorious body ( as 't is declared to be ) is too wonderfull for mortals to conceive , apprehend or pry into , ( and more meet for angels to see ) the scripture is silent therein as to the manner thereof , and we are not curious to enquire or dispute it , nor do we esteem it necessary to make our selves wise above what 's written i as to the manner and condition of christ's glorious body as in heaven , no more than to enquire how christ appeared in divers manners of formes k or how he came in among the disciples the doors being shut l or how he vanished out of their sight after he was risen : however , we have cause to believe his body as in heaven is changed into a most glorious condition far transcending what it was on earth , otherwise how should our low body be changed , so as to be made like unto his glorious body m for when he was ou earth and attended with sufferings , he was said to be like unto us in all things , sin only excepted n which may not be so said of him as now in a state of glory , as he prayed for , o otherwise where would the change be both in him and in us ? true and living faith in christ jesus the son of the living god p has respect to his entire being and fulness , to him entirely as in himself , and as all power in heaven and earth is given unto him q and also an eye and respect to the same son of god r as inwardly making himself known in the soul in every degree of his light , life , spirit , grace and truth , and as he is both the word of faith and a quickning spirit in us s whereby he is the immediate cause , author , object and strength of our living faith in his name , and power , and of the work of our salvation from sin and bondage of corruption ; and the son of god cannot be divided from the least or lowest appearance of his own divine light or life in us , ( or in mankind ) no more than the sun from its own light ; nor is the sufficiency of his light within by us set up in opposition to him the man christ , or his fulness considered as without us , nor can any measure or degree of light received from christ , as such , be properly called the fulness of christ , or christ as in fulness , nor exclude him so considered from being our compleat saviour for christ himself to be our light , our life , our saviour t is so consistent , that without his light we could not know life nor him to save us from sin , or deliver us from darkness , condemnation or wrath to come : and where the least degree or measure of this light and life of christ , is sincerely waited in , followed and obeyed , there 's a blessed encreass of light and grace known and felt , as the path of the just it shines more and more untill the perfect day , u and thereby a growing in grace and in the knowledge of god and of our lord and saviour jesus christ hath been and is truely experienced , and this light , life or spirit of christ within ( for they are one divine principle ) is sufficient to lead into all truth , having in it the diverse ministerations both of judgement and mercy , both of law and gospel , even that gospel which is preached in every intelligent creature under heaven , it does not only ( as in its first ministeration manifest sin , and reprove and condemn for sin , but also excites and leads them that believe in it to true repentance and thereupon to receive that mercy , pardon and redemption in christ jesus which he hath obtained for mankind on those gospel terms of faith , ( in his name , ) true repentance and convers●●ion to christ thereby required . now , though we had the holy scriptures of the old and new testament and 〈◊〉 a belief of christ crucified and raised &c. we never knew the mystery thereof until we were turned to the light of his grace and spirit within us , we knew not what it was to be reconciled by his death , and saved by his life , or what it was to know the fellowship of his sufferings , the power of his resurrection , or to b● made comformable to his death , we knew not untill he opened our eyes , and turned our minds from darkness unto his own divine light , and life within us . notwithstanding we do sincerely and greatly esteem and value the holy scriptures ; preaching and teaching of faithful divinely inspired , gifted and qualified persons & ministers of jesus christ as being great outward helps and instrumental in his hand and by his spirit for conversion where god is pleased to afford those outward helps & means as that we neither do nor may oppose the sufficiencie of the light or spirit of christ within to such outward helps , so as to reject disesteem or undervalue them , for they all proceed form the same light and spirit and tend to turn peoples minds thereunto and all center therein . nor can the holy scriptures or true preaching without be justly set in opposition to the light or spirit of god or christ within ; for his faithful messenger are ministers thereof being sent to turn people to the same light and spirit i● them . acts . . rom. . . cor. . . peter . . john . . 't is certain that great is the mystery of godliness in it self in its own being 〈◊〉 excellency , namely that god should be and was manifest in the flesh , justifie● in the spirit , seen of angels , preached unto the gentiles , believed on it th● world , and received up into glory . and it is a great and precious mystery of godliness and christianity also th● christ should b● spiritually and effectually in mens hearts to save and deliv●● them from sin , satan and bondage of corruption , christ being thus reveall●● in true believers and dwelling in their hearts by faith , christ within the ho●● of glory , our light and life who of god is made unto us , wisdom , righteou●●ness , sanctification and redemption , cor. . . and therefore this mystery of godliness both as in its own being and glor● and also as in men ( in many hid and in some revealed ) hath been and must be testified , preached and believed where god is pleased to give commission ( and prepare peoples hearts for the same ) and not in mans will. concerning the resurrection of the dead , and the great day of judgement yet to come , beyond the grave or after death , and christs comming without us to judge the quick and the dead ; ( as diverse questions are put in such terms ) what the holy scriptures plainly declare and testifie in these matters ▪ we have great reason to credit and not to question , and have been alwayes ready to embrace with respect to christ and his apostles own testimony and prophecies . . for the doctrine of the resurrection ; if in this life onely we have hope in christ , we are of all men most miserable , cor. . . we sincerely believe not only a resurrection in christ from the fallen , sinfull state here , but a rising and ascending into glory with him hereafter , that when he at last appears , we may appear also with him in glory , col. . . john . . but that all the wicked , who live in rebellion against the light of grace , and die finally impenitent , shall come forth to the resurrection of condemnation . and that the soul or spirit of every man and woman shal be reserved in its own distinct , proper being , ( so as there shall be as many souls in the world to come as in this ) and every seed ; ( yea every soul ) shall have its proper body as god is pleased to give it , cor. . a natural body , is sown a spiritual body is raised ; that being first which is natural , and afterwards ●nat which is spiritual ; and though it 's said , this corruptible shall put on incorruption , and this mortal shall put on immortality , the change shal be such , as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god , neither doth corruption inherit incorruption , cor. . chap. we shall be raised out of all corruption and corruptibility , out of all mortality ; and he children of god and of the resurrection shall be equal to the angels of god in heaven , mat. . . mark . . luke . . and as the celestial bodies do far excell terrestriall ; so we expect ou● spirituall bodies in the resurrection shall far excell what our bodies now are , and we hope none can justly blame us for thus expecting better bodie● than they now are . howbeit , we esteem it very unnecessary to dispute or question how the dead are raised , or with what body they come ? but rather submit that to the wisdom and pleasure of almighty god. secondly , for the doctrine of eternal judgement . god hath committed all judgement unto his son jesus christ , and he is judge of both quick and dead , and of the states and ends of all mankind . john . . . acts . . timothy . . peter . . that there shall be hereafter a great harvest which is the end of the world ; a great day of judgement , and for the judgment of that great day the holy scripture is clear , matthew . ' , , . chap. . . and . . jude . when the son of man cometh in his glory , and all the holy angels with him ; then shall he sit upon the throne in his glory , and before him shall be gathered all nations &c. matthew . . . to the end compared with chapter . . mark . . luke . . and corinthians . . thessalonians . , . to the end . thessalontans . . revelation . , , , . that this blessed heavenly man ( this son of man , who hath so deeply suffered and endured so many indignities and persecutions from his adversaries , both to himself and his members , and brethren ) should at last ▪ even in the last and great day , signally and manifestly appear in glory and triumph , attended with all his glorious heavenly host and retinue , before all nations , before all his enemies , and those that have denyed him ▪ this will be to their great terror and amazement ; that this most glorious heavenly man and his brethren , that have been so much contemned and set at nought , should be thus exalted over their enemies and persecutors in glory and triumph , is a righteous thing with god ; and that they that suffer with him , should appear with him in glory and dignity ▪ when he thus appears at last . christ was judge of the world and o● the prince thereof when on the earth , john . , and . . he is still judge of the world , the wickedness and prince thereof by his light , spirit and gospel in mens hearts and consciences , john . , . matthew . , ● . isaiah . . romans . . peter . . and he will be the judge and ●inal determiner thereof in that great day appointed ; god having appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousness , by that man whom he hath ordained . christ foretold , it shall be more tolerable for them of the land of sodom and gommorah in the day of judgement , than for that city or people that would not receive his messengers or ministers &c. matthew , . and ●ee chap. . . and mark . . luke . . . it is certain that god knows how to deliver the godly out of all their trials and afflictions , and at last to bring them forth , and raise them up into glory with christ ; so , he knoweth also how to reserve the unjust and finally impenitent unto the day of judgement to be punished , peter . . he will bring them forth unto the day of destruction , job . . the lord can and will ●eserve such impenitent , presumptuous and rebellious criminals as bound under chains of darkness ( as were the fallen angels ) unto the judgment of the great day , jude . matthew . . 't is not for us to determine or dispute the manner how they shall be so reserved ; but leave it to god , he knows how . something further relating to this doctrine of the resurrection and eternal judgment . at the last trump of god and voice of the arch angel the dead shall be raised incorruptible , the dead in christ shall rise first , corinthians . . thessalonians . . compared with matthew . . many are often allarm'd in conscience here by the word and voice of god who stop their ears and slight these warnings ; but the great and ●inal alarm of the last trumpet , they cannot stop their ears against , nor ●scape , it will unavoidably seize upon and further awaken them finally to ●udgement ; they that will not be alarm'd in their consciences to repentance ●or out of their sins here , must certainly be alarmed to judgment hereafter , whosoever do now wilfully shut their eyes , hate , contemn or shun the light of christ or his appearance within shall at last be made to see and not be able to shun nor hide themselves from his glorious and dreadful appearance from heaven with his mighty angels as with lightning and in flaming fire to render vengeance on all them that know not god and obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ , thess . . matth. . . luke . dan. . . job . . and though many now evade and reject the inward convictions and judgment of the light and shut up the records or books thereof in their their own consciences , they shall all be at last opened and every one judged of these things recorded therein according to their works , revelation . , , , . finis . published in behalf of the people of god called qvakers by some of them . advertisement . any sober enquirer that desires to be further informed concerning the principles and doctrines of the aforesaid people , and to see how they clear themselves of the calumnies and envious aspersions that are cast upon them by their adversaries may be pleased to read their confession of faith and catechism , and the apology for the true christian divinity , also the apology vindicated being an answer to john broun , truth cleared of calumnies , william mitchel vnmasked , all written by robert barclay ; a little book called the key by g. p. a book written by one elizabeth bathurst , rusticus and clericum being a late answer to william jamison by john robertson &c. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a heb. . . pet. . . joh. . . tim. ▪ . b eph. . . joh. . . . . heb. . . c joh. . . d rom. . , . e mat. . . . f rom. . , . g joh. . , . h joh. . . isa. . . i tim. . . k pet. . . tim. . . mat. . . and . . luke . ▪ and . . l rom . . . heb. . . . eph. . . . col. . ▪ . . m john. . . cor. . , . heb. . . n zech. . . luke . . john . . heb. . , . deut. . , . acts . . and , . o heb. . . . p heb. . . heb. . . q rom. . , , , . gal. . . r ephes. . . . , , . s cor. . . chap , . , . t john . . and chap. . , , . u john . . x eph. . . y col. . . and . . z john. . . a ephes. . . b matth. . . c john . , , . . d john . , . romans . . john . . tim. . . e john . , . and chap. . . f peter . . john. . , , , , . c john. . . heb. . . d cor. . . acts . . e john. . . john. . . f luke . . . g psal. . . acts . . . . . h phil. . . i cor. . . k mark . . john . . john . . luk. . , . and chap. . . m phil. . . n heb. . . and . . o john . p joh. . . q matth. . . chap. . . joh. . . heb. . . chap. . . r john . . and . , , , , . verse● s cor. . . rom. . . . t john . . . and chap. . ● and chap. . , , . and chap. . . u prov. . . psal. . ● col. . . a true relation of the proceedings against certain quakers, at the generall court of the massachusets holden at boston in new-england october. . . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing t thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) a true relation of the proceedings against certain quakers, at the generall court of the massachusets holden at boston in new-england october. . . rawson, edward, - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by a.w., london : . signed at end: edward rawson. annotation on thomason copy: "march. . ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng massachusetts. -- general court -- early works to . quakers -- united states -- masssachusetts -- persecutions -- early works to . massachusetts -- history -- colonial period, ca. - -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no a true relation of the proceedings against certain quakers, at the generall court of the massachusets holden at boston in new-england octobe rawson, edward a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a true relation of the proceedings against certain quakers , at the generall court of the massachusets holden at boston in new-england october . . . although the justice of our proceedings against william robinson , marmaduke steavenson , and mary dyer , supported by the authority of this court , the lawes of the country , & the law of god may rather perswade us to expect incouragement and commendation from all prudent & pious men , than convince us of any necessity to apollogize for the same ; yet for as much as men of weaker parts , out of pitty and commiseration ( a commendable and christian virtue , yet easily abused , and susceptible of sinister and dangerous impressions ) for want of full information , may be less satisfied , and men of perverser principles , may take occasion hereby to caluminate us , and render us as bloody persecutors to satisfy the one , and stop the mouthes of the other , we thought it requisite to declare ; that about . yeares since divers persons professing themselves quakers , of whose pernicious opinions and practices , we had received intelligence from good hands from barbadoes and england ( arrived at boston ) whose persons were only secured , to be sent away by the first oportunity without censure or punishment , although their professed tenents , turbulent and contemptuous behaviour to authority would have justified a severer animadversion , yet the prudence of this court was exercised , onely in making provision to secure the peace and order here established against their attempts , whose designes ( we were well assured of by our own experience , as well as by the example of their predecessours in munster ) was to undermine and ruine the same . and accordingly a law was made and published , prohibiting all masters of ships to bring any quakers into this jurisdiction , and themselves from coming in , on penalty of the house of correction , till they could be sent away : notwithstanding which , by a back dore , they found entrance , and the penalty inflicted on themselves proving insufficient to restraine their impudent and insolent obstructions , was increased by the losse of the eares of those that offended the second time , which also being too weak a defence against their impetuous frantick fury , necessitated us to endeavour our security , and upon serious consideration , after the former experiments by their incessant assaults , a law was made that such persons should be banished , on pain of death , according to the example of england in their provision against jesuits , which sentence being regularly pronounced , at the last court of assistants against the parties above named , and they either returning , or continuing presumptuously in this jurisdiction , after the time limited , were apprehended , and owning themselves to be the persons banished , were sentenced ( by the court ) to death , according to the law aforesaid , which hath been executed upon . of them , mary dyer upon the petition of her son and the mercy and clemency of this court , had liberty to depart within two dayes , which shee hath accepted of . the consideration of our graduall proceeding will vindicate us from the clamorous accusations of severity ; our just and necessary defence , calling upon us ( other meanes failing ) to offer the point which these persons have violently and wilfully rushed upon ; and thereby become felons de se , which might it have been prevented , and the soveraign law salus populi been preserved , our former proceedings , as well as the sparing of mary dyer upon an inconsiderable intercession , will manifestly evince , we desire their lives absent rather than their death present . edward rawson secret . london printed by a. w. . an epistle of margaret everard to the people called quakers and the ministry among them: more especially to such of them to whom she hath bee particularly known, and who are concerned for her, as if she were lost and fallen from truth. shewing her dissatisfaction with the ignorance, error, and uncharitableness that too much abounds among them. everard, margaret. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an epistle of margaret everard to the people called quakers and the ministry among them: more especially to such of them to whom she hath bee particularly known, and who are concerned for her, as if she were lost and fallen from truth. shewing her dissatisfaction with the ignorance, error, and uncharitableness that too much abounds among them. everard, margaret. p. printed for brabazon aylmer, at the three pigeons, against the royal exchange in cornhill, london : . caption title. signed and dated at end: the th of the fourth month, . margaret everard. imprint from colophon. reproduction of the original in the friends's library, london. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- england -- early works to . quakers -- england -- london -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - celeste ng sampled and proofread - celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an epistle of margaret everard to the people called qvakers , and the ministry among them : more especially to such of them to whom she hath been particularly known , and who are concerned for her , as if she were lost and fallen from truth . shewing her dissatisfaction with the ignorance , error , and uncharitableness that too much abounds among them . to all who are heartily concerned for me , fearing i am lost or fallen from truth . i know no reason for such fear , you might have taken the freedom to have visited me one way or other , and let me have known your reasons . well , because i believe some do love me , and desire to know how it is with me , i now tell you , and that to the honour and praise of my good god , it is as well , and better with me than ever it was , and the lord's presence and power is with me . publick and private loving friends , i had rather not have writ , but left it to time and to the lord who will plead my innocent cause . now to the best of my remembrance , few have been so kind to come and see me , but have taken things upon report , and have rather passed sentence and reported again . but all is little to me , the more they have done , the more the lord is to me : nay , and i can say , i rather rejoyce , not that they are so unfair as to judge from a bare report , but that the lord is pleased to accept of me as a sufferer for my lord jesus christ's sake . and now my friends i think to tell you , how i have proceeded , or what i did that was the cause of this disturbance . first , i was not satisfied concerning the state of things as we are a people , i have been dissatisfied for some years , about the ministry and the shortness of my own understanding , and the gross errors in our friends books , and i cryed to the lord many times in secret , but durst not pretend to find much fault , only sometimes a little to my husband about the ministers ; but i knew my self was to blame as well as others , but was not full clear in my understanding . neither was i fit to stand a storm , as i did believe it would be , and as i have found it to be , and may yet find more . such was the great dissatisfaction i met with , that i was much backward to speak in meetings , and have so been for some years last past , for some reasons i could give , but one was , i had some small glimps of some matters of doctrine which i for my part had never spoke of , nor ever heard any of our friends speak of as i remember , but did not speak at any time for the reasons aforesaid , nor could i have strength , until my good god gave me strength ; then i began in a great deal of fear , i did stammer a little sometimes , and so i do still , as the lord pleaseth ; but no sooner did i so do , but many rose up against me , and my testimony ; it being new doctrine to them , some said i was gone from my former innocency and simplicity ; others said , i preached priests and george keith's doctrine , but the doctrine of neither george keith , nor any other man's doctrine but christ's , though i love and esteem george keith for his faithful testimony to the doctrine of christ ; some said they could find in their hearts to oppose me , others said they could or would pull me down , some could not stay to hear , and said it is pitiful stuff : by what i said you may judge what doctrine i did preach : first some said , what good can a christ without do us ? let us mind the light within that is enough for us , and not to trouble our selves with a christ without , and denying the resurrection . and calling the preaching of it wisdom , and a feeding upon the tree of knowledge and scripture notions , and did tell us , in meetings our friends did not mind scripture notions at first . but to be short as the matter will bear , i have been and am a great sufferer , i count , for truth . and friends , i would have us consider what is the reason our hearts are so ignorant ; oh truly ! i may justly take a part and say , the leaders of the people have caused them to err . oh! i have often thought i could bring them no farther than i was come my self . o friends ! we have been in a great extream , and in as great as many others ; for they preach christ without , but if they believe him within they have been short of preaching him within , or directing the minds of the people to the divine light of christ , by which they might have been lead to look with the eye of their souls to christ without , and in his light to see the great love of god in his son , and what god did by him for poor mankind , and what he is now a doing in heaven without us for us , and what he is still to do for us at the great and last day of judgment . i say , the people and the teachers , or very many of them , have been and are short in this weighty matter , and have taken up a rest short of true faith in christ as he was sent to dye for us . i do declare a bare historical faith of these things is not sufficient ; oh! no , no , it is a living faith wrought in the heart by the spirit and power of god. it is god's gift , and what our blessed lord jesus christ did purchase by his death and sufferings , and shedding of his most precious blood ; and blessed be his pure eternal holy name , he is the dispencer of it , and of all other blessed gifts and graces . i say , they come through him to us and for his sake , and although it is said , all men have not faith ; yet those ought to have it who are teachers of others . for i do declare , those who preach it and direct to a living faith in the lord jesus christ , so as to beget any soul into it , ought to have faith in some degree themselves ; and they that have it not , ought to use all means whereby they may attain to it , because it is impossible to please god without it as the holy scripture declareth . and i say , it is not enough to believe in god , as he is the great creator and upholder of all things ; but we must believe in the lord jesus christ as he taught himself , ye believe in god belieae also in me . here i understand they did believe in god , and consequently in his light in their hearts , which was in order that they might 〈◊〉 in him also . as i said before it is a heart-belief wrought by the spirit of god , as it is written , with the heart man believes unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation . and as i said , so i say still , we ought to use all means possible that god hath ordained , to believe , so one great and necessary means is , reading the holy scriptures , and hearing the doctrine of this great mystery preached , to wit , of faith in christ crucisied , in which all is included that is necessary to our salvation ; and as we use our endeavours in reading and hearing , and as those that speak by the help and assistance of the good spirit of god , and they that hear are gathered to the same in their own . hearts , as they come to meditate in what they read and hear may come to have their understandings opened at the time of hearing or reading ; for the scripture saith , faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word preached ▪ but mark , if there be not a seed of faith in the hearts of those that hear , it will not profit , and it was the manner , and is of christ's ministers , to preach faith in christ crucified , his resurrection and ascension into heaven being a mediator and advocate with the father for us , and justification by his blood , or by the blood of his cross , to wit , that blood which was shed on the cross , and let out of his blessed side with a spear by the souldier , as it is written , one of the souldiers pierced his side , and forthwith came there out water and blood ; and this brings to mind what i have further read , there are three which bare record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost , and these three are one ; and three which bare record on earth , the water , the spirit , and the blood , these three agree in one , and are not to be divided , though they are distinguished , so i say the apostles and ministers preached christ ▪ and the doctrine of salvation by him , and whoever brought any other doctrine , were to be denyed , and the christians were to separate from them , and so i think they ought to do now . some there were that denyed the lord that bought them , and the great doctrine of the resurrection , and so some do still , and the man christ his coming to judge the world , at the last day of judgment ; that great and notable day of the lord , as the scriptures say , and he shall gather all nations together before him , then shall our dead bodies be raised , as the scripture saith , he shall change our vile or low bodys , viz. the bodys of the saints , and shall make them like unto his glorious body : then god will judge the world by that man whom he hath ordained , whereof he hath given us assurance , in that he hath raised him from the dead . pray friends let us read the scriptures , and the lord give us an understanding , and help us against the corruptions of our nature , and the defilements of sin , which we derived from our first parents ; for as the apostle said , by nature we are children of vvrath ; and as david said , i was born in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . oh! what cause have we to be humbled , and lye at the feet of our blessed lord jesus christ and say , lord help us and forgive us our trespasses , and this we beg and ask not for our holiness , or any works of righteousness that we have done or can do ; though helped by the spirit of the lord jesus christ's sake ; for although the spirit of god is a holy and undefiled spirit , and we have a manifestation of it ; yet such is the frailty of our nature , that we keep not to it at all times . so i say , it is not for any thing that we can do , or do do ; as the meritorious cause of our salvation , or acceptance with god , but it is the righteousness and obedience of christ , and a living faith in what he did and suffered for us , without us , and what he is now doing for us in heaven without us , and what he will do for us at the last and great day , as hath been said , and that without us . i say again , it is not our good works that is the meritorious casue of our acceptance , but god's free love in his son ; and our good works are the effect of god's love in christ , and christ's love in giving himself to dye for us , and thereby hath purchased and procured these holy gifts and graces of faith , repentance , and obedience ; and he only is worthy of all honour and praise , who with a victorious patience indured for poor sinners the cross , and despised the shame , and is sate down at the right hand of god , and is there an ever-living high-priest , who is touched with a feeling of our infirmities , our blessed mediator and advocate . oh! how sad is it , that any should make light , or slight these great truths , as too many do , and have done , to my knowledge , and to my great grief , and the grief of many ; to wit , as i have heard some say , what good can a christ without do us ? let us mind the light within , that is sufficient to our salvation without any thing else : and much more that i have omitted for brevity sake . but i say , this is lamentable that our meetings are clog'd with such stuff ; nay , i cannot yet see how it will be otherwise , notwithstanding the fair pretences some have made ; but instead of suppressing and stopping them , they are rather tollerated and incouraged , and have their liberty to preach and pray in meetings , without hindrance ; but those that bring the doctrine of our blessed lord jesus christ , and he to be the object of our faith , the man christ as in heaven without us ; i say , these cannot have the same liberty , but must be opposed and contradicted ; and yet at the same time , these that thus oppose and contradict the faith of christ , shall say , they have it , and had it , before they came amongst friends , and yet wanted peace and were in their sins ; the which if they had had it , the least grain of it , to wit , a living faith , it would cleanse them from their envy , and malice , and other sins . oh! but the wicked have it not , though they pretend to it , yet they are without the evidence of it , which is good works ; for as the apostle saith , faith without works is dead . i say again , it is said that people should run into such extreams , one fort laying all without , and others laying all within ▪ now i say , we ought not to divide christ , or to exclude him from being within men and women , and to be without also ; within as he is god , for as god he is omnipresent , every where in all and over all ; but as he is both god and the glorified man in our nature ; he is now in heaven without us , in him the fullness dwells ; and out of his fulness as a rich fountain do we all receive grace and glory , and no good thing will be withheld from them that believe and love , and manifest their love to him by their obedience to him : as he said , if ye love me keep my commandments . the lord help us , and hasten that the chosen of god in christ may be gathered , and that those sheep which are not yet gathered , may be gathered . oh! surely saith the true sheep and church of christ ; give us whole christ , not divided . oh! for we wanted him every way , we wanted him to dye for us , to speak and satisfie divine justice , and to rise again for our justification . and we wanted him inwardly , to give us the faith and comfort of what he hath done and suffered for us outwardly ; and by his holy spirit and grace , to renew and sanctifie us throughout , in spirit , soul and body ; who is our justice and perfect saviour and sanctifier , as he is both god and man , and with respect both to his outward and inward coming . and friends , least any should imagine or say , this is not her inditing , nor would she have put to print , without being put on or advised by some ; in answer , i tell you , it was my own act , without the perswasion of any ; and if it were needful , i could produce sufficient witnesses , who have heard me say often , i shall not be easie , until i have written something , that all that have any true love to me , might understand how it is with me , and the reason of the disturbance which hath been . but some may further object and say , it looked bad , and contrary to friends order , and that i should have sent it at first to the meeting at london , that friends might have given their approbation , and might have printed it by friends printer . i readily confess according to such order i should , and it would have pleased me best , but i could not perswade my self it should ever have been printed : to me it appears it would be cast out , for i remember a paper sent to the meeting from a woman friend living in nottinghamshire or darbyshire , whose paper was rejected by them , so would mine : some may say , thou might have tryed , but i was not willing to give them trouble , or my self the disappointment . well , i have done it , and am satisfied , and hope it may satisfie some others , for whose sake chiefly i did it . and as for those , or such as will not be satisfied , i cannot help it , it is no disappointment to me , for i never did nor can propose to satisfie all , nor can i tell who ever did . some that loves me say , keep meetings , and speak or teach those things , that is , the doctrine of christ crucified , together with the light within , &c. but i find it will not be endured , except i could be a hypocrite , and jumble and confound things as some have done and yet do , as i my self ignorantly have done ; and sometimes to please others , or rather for fear of open opposition ; but i pray god forgive me for jesus christ his sake , and preserve me and all the sincere towards him for time to come ; for i am well assured the words of our blessed lord jesus are true , and shall be fulfilled in the time appointed , to wit , whoever is ashamed of me , and of my words , of him will the son of man be ashamed , when he comes in the glory of his father . and friends , i have seen great hurt in openly opposing each other ; oh! surely i have reason to say so ; i say some have been much offended , and others have gone out of the way for the present , but the lord my god for his son jesus christ his sake , bring them again to himself , that by a living faith in christ , they may obtain forgiveness , and know the work of regeneration and sanctification , in and by the power and spirit of christ in their hearts . so with my dear love to all that love our lord jesus christ in truth , and sincerely believe in him , and manifest their truth and love to him , by obedience to his commands ; i say to all these , i desire that grace , mercy , and peace from god our father , and from our lord jesus christ , may be multiplyed and abound in them . farewell . the th of the fourth month , . margaret everard . finis . london , printed for brabazon aylmer , at the three pigeons , against the royal exchange in cornhill , . the quakers wedding, october, . . stevenson, matthew, fl. - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). b wing s interim tract supplement guide c. .f. [ ] interim tract supplement guide c. .f. [ ] ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. b ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books; tract supplement ; a : [ ]; a : [ ]) the quakers wedding, october, . . stevenson, matthew, fl. - . sheet ([ ] p.). printed for rowland reynolds, at the sun and bible in the poultry, london, : . signed: stevenson. verse: "o times! o manners! whither's levy fled ..." reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng quakers -- controversial literature -- early works to . marriage -- poetry -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - spi global rekeyed and resubmitted - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quakers wedding , october , . . o times ! o manners ! whither 's levy fled , that law and gospel seem abolished ? ●he red-nos'd dragon with his complices , to fundamental truths antipodes , that coccatrice this cursed egg has hatch'd and taught us worse than ever to be matcht . they publish ( then ) at whipping-posts the banes , and well i think deserv'd'um for their pains . but we can marry now , hand over-head , and not have so much as a form to plead . we are not now unto the justice packt , ( though then there was small justice in the act ) . but we can marry of our own accord , like jack and gill , but leaping cross a sword. but against parties coupled on this wise , westminster-weddings will in judgment rise , that they should stumble , and pretend such light , they marry wrong , and call 't a marriage-rite . the libertine comes in the levits room , and is at once the parson and the groom . he babbles like a brute , and by and by , he takes the bride , and goes to multiply . the bride ? i do recall what i have said , 't is not a bridal , but a brothel bed ; they for conjunction copulative would pass , when the conjunction a disjunctive was . for having lain together all their life , they are , but as they met , not man and wife . and for a mitigation of their cares , they may have many children , but no heirs . and , what a marryed-man could never yet , he may a bastard of his wife beget . for wanting licence , and certificate , he leaves his issue illegitimate . the sons and daughters of the common earth , an off-spring out-law'd in their very birth . what made , them jews and gentiles to invite ? sure they could never hope a proselyte . how heaven approv'd the juggle ? you may tell when thunder , lightning , and a tempest fell confusion waited on both men and meat , their marriage , and their feast , were both a che●● a wedding , and no wedding brought before y 〈…〉 the devil doubtless was the directory . some hellebor restore 'um , to recant , this fordid league , and senceless covenant . o that such vileness should affront the sun , would make a corner blush to see it done ! whilst , almost mad as they , the people ran , to see a sinner take a publican . steven 〈…〉 london , printed for rowland reynolds , at the sun and bible in the poultry , .